Those trying to keep alive the doubts about Barack Obama’s birth certificate make a big deal about the difference between birth certificates Hawaii used to issue and the ones they issue today. So what is the difference in the validity of the Certificate of Live Birth and the Certification of Live Birth?
When we spoke to a spokeswoman for the Hawaii Department of Health, she said too much was being made of the difference between the so-called “long” and “short” forms.
“They’re just words,” said spokeswoman Janice Okubo. “That (what was posted on the Internet) is considered a birth certificate from the State of Hawaii.”
“There’s only one form of birth certificate,” she said, and it’s been the same since the 1980s. Birth certificates evolve over the decades, she said, and there are no doubt differences between the way birth certificates looked when Obama was born and now.
“When you request a birth certificate, the one you get looks exactly like the one posted on his site,” she said. “That’s the birth certificate.”
As for the theory that Obama’s original birth certificate might show he was foreign born, Okubo said the “Certification of Live Birth” would say so. Obama’s does not. Again, it says he was born in Honolulu.
Holdouts, pointed to an obsolete web page on the Department of Hawaii Homelands web site that said the “long form” was preferable for them. However, reflecting the fact that long forms are no longer available, the DHHL web site has been updated and now says:
“The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual’s birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person’s birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.”
my daughter was born in Hawaii, so I am aware that this has been true for a long time. But it makes no difference to a Birther, especially those that say “his sister was born in Indonesia yet she has a Hawaian BC” (false story, but when does a false story stop a Birther)
when our resident (and ignorant troll) kept demanding the “long form”, I gave him the phone number to the Hawaiian records agency and said call and check, you can easily prove this issue, yet he would not. As you are all aware, Birthers are adverse to the truth and would never check a real source, only their LSS source. (LLS = Lying Sack of S___)
In the Why-doesn’t-he-just-show-his-birth-certificate? department:
“All they have to do is to invite reporters, call up the program to produce the COLB from his ‘original’ birth certificate, as it exists in their database, and then let the document print. Hot off the presses, publicize THAT document to the world.
That’s what I want to see. IF the Hawaiian database produces a document that EXACTLY matches the data that’s on that image at FactCheck, and SO LONG AS THE DOCUMENT HAS PASSED THROUGH NOBODY’S HANDS BETWEEN THE PRINTER AND THE REPORTERS, then I will be satisfied.”
Are you kidding, that would never do. Birthers always have a fall back excuse.
Bullcr@p. You’d find something wrong with that document too. The State of Hawaii keeps telling you they don’t issue the long form anymore, accept it, get over it. You read it yourself, the long form might contain more information for genealogical purposes. What part of Pres. Obama’s genealogy are you interested in examining that you don’t already know? What more information do you think you need to assess his eligibility other than his place of birth? And why do you think it is your right to assess his eligibility at all? It’s already been done, by the people who actually do assess eligibility, the FEC, the DNC, the Electoral College and the Congress.
I wonder to myself why birthers want more information about Obama than for any other President and I now believe it’s what a commenter here said the other day ” Black men always have to show more identification.” I think the birther motives are just that simple: you want to harass the black man. You people are sick.
Great post. You don’t know how many times I’ve pointed out to people that the certificate specifically says “LOCATION OF BIRTH HONOLULU”. For some reason, that birther theory that he was born in a foreign nation and only the “other” birth certificate would show that works for a lot of people who don’t actually look at the document he posted and notice that it specifically says where he was born.
A birther once told me that the short form did not list location of birth at all. I guess he never actually looked at a birth certificate before.
I’d also like to add that I was born abroad to an American mother and my certificate clearly says “location of birth: Ontario Canada” or something like that (it’s not from Hawaii by the way but you get the idea).
It doesn’t matter. Orly is telling her cultists that Obama can never be NBC, because of his father.
She flatly stated that both parents must be citizens, for a president to be NBC.
Birthers will never accept Obama, or Jindal for that matter. I can’t wait to see the firestorm when Jindal announces. Popcorn…
WND refuted Berg and Taitz’s claim (link below). WND’s had forensic experts study the bith certificate and said it was authentic. So why is Farah saying it’s fake now?
Farah is saying that it’s fake now because he’s trying to gin up business to sell more of his ‘Herbal Remedies” and colon cleansing products he hawks on his site. He’s an attention whore and no a source of ‘news’ in any sense. Conveniently, he’ll accept ‘donations’ to put up billboards, fedex petitions, etc, must be a good income in being a birther.
Nah, then the Birthers will simply say that the Hawaiian Government is “In on it” and faking his birth data. Ignoring this, and fighting it where necessary are the best courses of action President Obama can take. The miute he gives in, and triesd to provide anything else to them, they’ll want more, never accepting the overwhelming proof that President Obama IS eligible to be President.
For Farah and WND it is all about the money…They certified Obama’s BC but they have never retracted or acknowledged that article. However the realy reason they ignore that they did confirm the BC is because they are soliciting “donations” for their innane billboard campaign and they are supporters of Orly. Remember Farah employs Jerome Corsi who wrote a book about Obama that has been discredited and he and other writers make up negative stories abot Obama. WND is to news like WWE is to sports…a joke.
If you can stand crap and read World Net Daily, you can see how some of the individuals that are making money off the birthers and the whole BC controversy continually seek to rile up their base. They write obvious inflamatory articles about Obama in order to get people worked up and willing to donate to “the cause” So even with this article along with all of the others that have proved all of the birther assertions to be false, it will do no good. They want to believe in conspiracy theories rather than what make sense.
For instance see the following article from one of their writers Ellis Washington…He not only compares President Obama with some dictators, I looks like he is advocating some sort of a revolution. They will all claim that they are trying to save the Constitution, but with all of their rantings and writings they seem to want to do the opposite. That seems to be borderline treasonable at best but Obama and his followers are the traitors and Orly and her bunch are the patriots…
“The key phrase here is: “it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another.” I call that passage the exclusionary clause that any healthy representative democracy or republic must maintain as a last resort when any of its branches of government – executive, legislature or judicial – become unresponsive or even tyrannical to the will of the people. We see these despotic regimes in evidence with Chavez in Venezuela, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in Iran, Zelaya in Honduras and Obama in America. Therefore, it is the sworn duty of We the People, as a civilized body under this social contract, to overthrow any unconstitutional government by force if necessary and re-establish a constitutional one based on the rule of law, liberty and Veritas (truth).”
Good old Orly was in Missouri at her “birther summit” and it seems like there are memebrs of that states GOP that have signed on to be members of her “Tin Foil Hat Brigade”…
As usual she made are false statements…
“Obama has failed to produce a true copy of his Hawaii birth certificate; the birth documentation he has produced may be a forgery; Obama may have forged his selective service documents; he may have as many as 25 social security numbers; one of those numbers may have originated in Connecticut and indicates he’s over 100 years old; he may have enrolled at Occidental College as a foreign exchange student; he may be guilty of wire fraud, social security fraud, mail fraud and other unspecified fraudulent acts related to his presidential campaign and various charitable organizations; and he may have held closed-door meetings with the U.S. Supreme Court in which he intimidated them into rejecting any cases challenging his citizenship.”
And of course she expressed concern this afternoon about the Saudi Arabian ownership of FOX News, Hugo Chavez’s ownership of voting machine software, ACORN’s new office inside the White House, and Obama’s obvious loyalties to Kenya and Indonesian.
Unfortunately it doesn’t look like she will be going away anytime soon…So I guess we will be supplied with more entertainment for us to discuss…
I can clearly see two fold lines on the digital photograph of Barry’s alleged COLB but do not see any fold lines on the digital scan.
Why is that?
you evidently don’t have or never used a scanner otherwise this question would not be asked. Hint, a digital photo is not a scan.
Actually the fold lines are on the COLB scan. You can barely make them out if look closely. However, Obama COLB Scan is still invalid because it lacks a Certificate Number. The Scan has been altered which makes it invalid.
As for the Fact Check COLB, Fack Check is an Obot organization that can’t be trusted.
Although Fact Check claimed they saw a hard copy, that copy has disappeared and has never been made available again.
Further, Fack Check failed to produce a formal detailed report on their examination and produced nothing more than some fuzzy photos and few a points about the COLB.
Much of what FactCheck says about the COLB makes little sense.
Thank you, richCares.
The question is in reference to a published digital photograph which clearly shows two fold lines and jpg of the digital scan Barry published on his Fight the Smears website.
If you click the jpg in Doc’s post you won’t see any fold lines. Why is that?
Alright, I clicked for a closeup and saw one fold line at the top. Where’s the other fold line?
Doc … any further updates on “date filed” vs. “date accepted”?
At least they bothered to go look at the real thing, unlike the lazy Polarik who declined the invitation to go to Chicago and have a look.
“FactCheck is an Obot organization.”
More proof that no matter what he showed, you maroons would find something wrong with it.
No one ever claimed the scan of the document was meant to be a substitute for the physical document. In hindsight, the Obama campaign should have said that they had provided the COLB to the proper individuals in the FEC, the DNC, the many states, and told the birthers to bugger off. But that is not how your President rolls. The man is a consensus-builder and his nature is to try to be inclusive, not to tell his constituents to bugger off. He and his campaign underestimated your pettiness.
Although Fact Check claimed they saw a hard copy, that copy has disappeared and has never been made available again.
Bull PuPu! it is still at Obama’s Chicago office. You must be a WND fan. You nay go there or keep believing the rumors, but we know you won’t.
“No one ever claimed the scan of the document was meant to be a substitute for the physical document.”
This is absolutely not true! Robert Gibbs has affirmed the scanned COLB is Obama’s offical birth certificate:
“but it’s on the Internet because we put it on the Internet for each of those 400,000 to download.”
Gibbs was no doubt referring to the scanned COLB and not the Factcheck one.
But what Robert Gibbs affirms to be authentic is not authentic at all. The Scanned COLB lacks a Certificate Number. It has been altered and therefore is invalid.
“This is absolutely not true! Robert Gibbs has affirmed the scanned COLB is Obama’s offical birth certificate:”
I will type slowly so you can follow, a copy (any copy) represents the original document, it is not, in fact, an original. Did you fail grade school?
“They’re just words,” … hmmm!! Hasn’t the O-bprter hisself used that very same quote (and then said just the opposite when it suited his purpose)??
And – let’s be correct here – the image on the pro-O websites (FightTheSmears.com, etc.) is not “just the same” as the computer image on his site since the REAL BC (or even the REAL COLB) is a paper document and not a computer image that is – and obviously has been – easily altered. You are attempting to put words in Janice Okubo’s mouth that she never said.
The fact that the actual COLB (not the computer image) does not have any additional information beyond what is shown on the website is meaningless since neithewr the real or imagined COLB (which, mind you, has never been presented in court for more rigorous examination) is merely a selective extraction of data from the actual vault copy BC. If you read her statement more closely and the passage you present from the changed DHHL text it is clear that the vault copy BC contains more date – and that’s precisely what is needed … the real vault copy. In court, the phony (or even the real) COLB is merely prima facie material and has been challenged – big time. It (the COLB) certainly won’t make it through a court trial.
Having said that, the real BC is merely a necessary but not sufficient piece of evidence to merely prove his claim of being born in HI along with other pertinent pieces of vital statistics. I suspect he may have been born there – but none of the public know that for certain.
The real issue is the presidential eligibility under the Constitution since he has already admitted to being governed by the British Nationality Act of 1948 at birth since his pappy was never an American citizen. It will all come out in court at some point.
I believe that HI has always been the most communitst-infested and way-far-left liberal state of the 50 and they don’t seem to have changed. Frank Marshall Davis and the other bolsheviks who agitated there would be proud of their handiwork.
“But what Robert Gibbs affirms to be authentic is not authentic at all. The Scanned COLB lacks a Certificate Number. It has been altered and therefore is invalid.”
Good point, the Allstate Ins. Guy spilled coffee on the copy of my Drivers License, the cop pulled me over and said that invalidates my license. Sure he did. Where do you guys come from, is your hate for Obama so great that it atrophies your brain?
so jtx the liar is also jtx the dummy, keep it up. Linda Lingle the Republican governor is a communist, wow! Thanks for telling us.
“As for the Fact Check COLB, Fack Check is an Obot organization that can’t be trusted.”
John- you have anything to substantiate this claim? Does that mean the articles in Factcheck that dispute statements made by Obama can’t be trusted either?
Have you ever looked at articles in Factcheck? They look at what people say and try to determine whether they are true or not- and Obama has not been immune(could any politician?)
Finally a statement made by Factcheck that you will never see on WND:
“The e-mail’s last paragraph advises that everyone who goes to Snopes.com for “the bottom line facts” should “proceed with caution.” We think that’s terrific advice, not just in connection with material on Snopes but for practically anything a reader finds online — including articles on FactCheck.org. The very reason we list our sources (as does Snopes.com) and provide links is so that readers can check things out for themselves.”
I know the Birthers think that any website that doesn’t support their claims is in the pocket of President Obama, but really, really- show me an organization that does a better job than Factcheck or Snopes at debunking false claims. I haven’t found one yet.
“..prima facie material and has been challenged –”
so who is it that made this nonsense challenge that keeps getting kicked out of court. You have a long wait there buddy.
Certificate No. 151 1961-010641.
Date filed, August 8, 1961. 4 Days after his birth so the thesis that this was a delayed birth certificate has to be rejected.
We also don’t know how the Vault Copy Birth Certificate is derived.
I am beginning to suspect Obama was not born in a hospital which why he won’t release it.
No hospital has ever came forward to date to state Obama was born there.
More importantly, no person has yet to come forward to give a coorborating account that Obama was born in the hospital he said he was born in.
No doctor, no nurse, no staff worker. No one has come foward with a credible account.
It is hard to believe that everyone would be dead since Obama was only born 47 years ago.
I believe the Vault Copy is probably based a statement from Stanley Ann Dunham.
Since Dunham is dead there is no way to coorborate her account and there no way to conclusively prove that Obama was in fact born in Hawaii.
Because you’ve never used a scanner, SvenMagnussen. Fold lines, because of the scanner, don’t always show up visibly.
This is what the worshippers do. They twist people’s words to suit their agenda. That’s how this phony got into office.
Further, Kool Aid drinkers, like NBC, have moved on from the “Is he elligible” mode to the “They can’t remove him office” mode. They are doing whatever they can to hold onto their dream. Only problem is that is ONLY a dream. A NIGHTMARE to be more precise. But, all dreams do end.
Just watch gigglin’ Gibbs. He knows it’s all but over. He will resign within a month and the house of cards will quickly fall. It’s all ver but the whining, libs. We are taking our country back one step at a time. Those who supported this ILLEGAL regime will have a hard time fitting back into society. Kind of a scarlet letter scenario.
Because Hospitals are bound by privacy law.
An event that took place 45 years ago.. You are hilarious in believing that people would remember something that happened that long ago as part of a routine delivery.
Or disprove. Note that President Obama does not have the burden of proving beyond your doubt, but rather has shown that his birth certificate shows him born in Honolulu.
John forgot to bring up that typewriters did not have that kind of typeface in 1961, so it must be a forgery. and jtx chimed in with the whole state of Hawaii is communist and in on the scam. How do these people manage to keep their body fluids from exploding? It’s called Birther crap for a reason.
Did you really miss the photographs which show the full certificate, the number, the raised seal and the official signature?
Since there are few ways of putting a document on the Internet, in the end Gibbs has to refer to a scan/photograph.
Since both the scan and the photographs show that the COLB indicates Obama born on US soil, the case is closed.
“I believe that HI has always been the most communitst-infested and way-far-left liberal state of the 50”
Yeah- the clearest example is that well known communist Senator Daniel Inouye- not only does he have a foreign name- but he fooled everyone by volunteering in WW2 and getting a medal of honor and being maimed defending his country, even while other Japanese Americans were being detained. This sleeper has been just waiting for his opportunity to lead the glorous Communist revolt in Hawaii.
Clearly all the other residents of Hawaii are his fellow travellers. I think JTX has finally figured it all out- Obama is a product of a statewide Hawaiian Communist conspiracy. They searched in the 40’s and 50’s looking for the perfect infant to carefully groom for the Presidency.
After approval of the Communist Overlords in the Soviet Union in 1960, they decided to have a half white/half African Black boy created and named with the unthreatening name “Barrack Hussein Obama”. They actually flew the boy from Kenya on a Soviet Stealth Cargo plane and airdropped him to the awaiting agents in Hawaii. They planted those newspaper birth announcements.
As part of the charade, they sent the young Barrack to Indonesia to be educated in Moslem schools, figuring this would endear him decades later to the Moslem loving Americans. Even though he did return to the United States to go to High School and College, he eventually he settled in Chicago and attended Church for 20 years, all this time pretending to be a Christian.
Finally in 2008, the Communist Party of Hawaii achieved its dream. Barrack Obama is now in office- a puppet of Daniel Inouye and the Hawaiian Politburo. Their only concern is that deep in their hearts- they know he is a secret Muslim…..
“He will resign within a month and the house of cards will quickly fall. ”
heavy, may I repeat your quote in 30 days, then in 60 days. Will that upset your delusions?
He WAS referring to the scanned COLB you idiot. They scanned it and put it on the internet so people could look at it. No one intended it to be used for any official purpose. Chr!st-on-a-cracker you’re dense. And they invited people to come look at it if they cared to at Obama HQ in Chicago. What did you expect? The President to request 307 million certified copies and have one delivered to each American? You ignorant, stubborn birthers are so paranoid you read into everything you hear.
Funny how you, just before, spoke of twisting people’s words…
I have not moved on, I have argued that even if he were not eligible, the only way to remove him from office is impeachment.
That you were not familiar with the doctrine of de facto officer was somewhat surprising to me, that you refuse to revise your earlier comments in light of this is just well…
I like hearing about your dreams but the reality is that the next opportunity to have President Obama ‘removed’ from office is 2010 (midterm elections Congress), and 2012 when Obama faces re-election
It’s called HIPAA. Hospitals cannot just come out and say, “So and so was treated here for this” without a specific release from the patient. Furthermore, if Obama actually did give the release, which he is under no obligation to do, HIPAA may still prevent the hospital from saying that he was born there, because that would be disclosing information about a different patient: Stanley Ann Durham.
What part of privacy don’t you understand?
Furthermore, there was a Dr. Rodney West that said that he remembered the birth of Barack Obama, just because of the unusual name of his mother (how many Stanley’s do you know that give birth?) So, Dr. Rodney West, that would satisfy your “doctor, nurse, staff worker”. Even though he did do that, it was probably a violation of HIPAA for him to even say that.
As far as your little theory that it was based upon an account, you have no evidence to prove it. Basically that’s like saying, “I say that it equals 2 plus 2 equals 5. Therefore, there’s no way to prove that 2 plus 2 equals four.”
As far as the Federal Government is concerned, the State of Hawaii is concerned, and every governmental agency is concerned, Barack Obama was born in Hawaii. This is proven by his birth certificate, which has been confirmed by the State Department of Health as “…a valid Hawaii Birth Certificate.” The Birth Certificate is evidence in of itself of what the State has evidence for.
For you to state that, then you’re also stating that there is no way for anybody from Missouri, or any of the other states that just issue short-form birth certificates, to prove their citizenship to “conclusively prove” their citizenship to you. Therefore, if you’re for impeaching Barack Obama, then I also state that you throw out every single politician who was born in the State of Missouri, or any other state that just issues a short-form birth certificate. All of them have simular laws to handle at-home births, and births that happen outside hospitals. So, therefore, there is no conclusive way to determine whether or not they’re actually citizens.
Furthermore, every single voter who was born in the state of Missouri should be disqualified, because there is no prove to identify whether or not they are actually citizens of the United States.
See where you’re going with this?
Desperate times require desperate arguments…
After all, we all know that the ‘true’ Obama is a communist after all…
You are attempting to put words in Janice Okubo’s mouth that she never said.
Oh, the irony.
real or imagined COLB (which, mind you, has never been presented in court for more rigorous examination)
Courts don’t “examine” documents; they entertain objections from the litigants. Any objection that could be raised in a court of law may also be raised in the court of public opinion. There have no been meritorious objections.
is merely a selective extraction of data from the actual vault copy BC.
The COLB, however, “selectively extracts” the data relevant to Obama’s eligibility: He was born in Honolulu (and thus Hawaii, and thus the United States), and he’s over 35.
If you read her statement more closely and the passage you present from the changed DHHL text it is clear that the vault copy BC contains more date
Any additional data on the vault copy not on the COLB is simply not relevant to the eligibility issue.
– and that’s precisely what is needed … the real vault copy.
Hawaii state law explicitly says the COLB is sufficient.
In court, the phony (or even the real) COLB is merely prima facie material and has been challenged – big time.
There is no competent evidence challenging the validity of the COLB.
It (the COLB) certainly won’t make it through a court trial.
As there’s no competent evidence to challenge the COLB, it would in fact be dispersive in a court trial (which will never happen, by the way).
Well said. In fact, the COLB is admissible evidence and the burden of proof shifts to the plaintiffs to show that it is somehow fake. Since the COLB is clearly an official Hawaiian document with seal and signature, all that the plaintiffs can do is challenge the accuracy. But all it takes is a DOH official verify the information.
That’s it… Game over.
The COLB shows Obama born on US soil and thus natural born.
It is somewhat desperate to claim that because the scan showed a blacked out number, the document is therefor altered…
Of course, the problem is that the number as well as the raised seal and signature are clearly visible on the photographs of the same document.
Our Birther friends consistently and constantly post comments that only serve to prove their ignorance, I have heard valid political arguments from right wing blogs as to an Obama presidency, but not a single valid argument from a Birther on the BC issue. Between jtx’s “wait till courts see this” to heavy’s “he will be gone in 30 days” all we get from these people are ignorant rants. There’s Polarik claiming the blocked out BC number actually invalidates the original and Birthers eat it up, how stupid. Are They are not aware that they are proving their hate and igorance with every babble they make. They embarrass themselves and don’t even know it. Strange isn’t it?
John – Regarding Factcheck, here are a few facts:
“Birthers” claim that Factcheck is related to Obama because they are run by “Annenberg”, allegedly connected to the Chicago Annenberg Project that Obama sat on. But, here are the facts:
1) Chicago Annenberg Project dealt with educational opportunities for innercity children, separate from Factcheck and the “Annenberg Public Policy Center” that provides a tiny bit of funding to Factcheck
2) The Annenbergs were Republicans. In fact, Mrs. Annenberg was a Reagan diplomat. That is why John Sydney McCain happily displayed the fact that she had endorsed him (and funded his campaign) on his website, to counteract Gen. Powell’s endorsement of Obama by showing he can get diplomatic endorsements.
3) Factcheck has been around since the 1990’s, and has factchecked Obama as well as McCain, Gore, Kerry and Bush. Tell me again, HOW exactly is Factcheck an “Obama” website?
Your messiah’s mouthpiece. Gigglin’ Gibbs in action. His days are numbered. The whole thing is unraveling before our very eyes.
Heavy, what’s a WH reporter griping about who gets access got to do with the “the damned thing”?
John wants some 80 year old retired doctor who may have delivered a thousand infants in his life to remember the birth of one child from almost 50 years ago. Amazing.
Don’t forget Obama’s letter to Kapiolani Medical Center on the occasion of their 100th anniversary. “The place of my birth”, he wrote. They made the letter then centerpiece of their anniversary celebration. They wouldn’t have made the letter so public if it weren’t true. If you think it’s not, prove it.
It’s a top tourist destination too!
Birthers are running out of runway with their wing-nuttery.
More lunacy from the left!
“Polarik” himself provides examples of what even he calls “authenitic” COLBs that say both.
Trying to change the topic again from ‘de facto officer’ and COLB?
Lovely Heavy, what would we do without you…
With Hawaii confirming Obama’s birth in Hawaii, I doubt that Gibbs days are numbered in any relationship to Obama’s Hawaiian birth. I love Helen Thomas. Thanks for the video.
Nice try to distract though…
Funny now that Hawaii has pulled the rug from under the Birther’s their ‘arguments’ seem to be to distract with non-relevant materials.
Fascinating. Anger, Denial, the classic transitions.
And what difference would that make? Article II does not make birth in a hospital a criterion for eligibility to be POTUS.
They are prohibited from doing so by the Health Insurance Portability and Privacy Act (HIPPA). They were however not shy about coming forward to state that Obama provided them with a “work around.”
That’s why we have birth certificates. So we don’t have to worry about the memories (or deaths) of witnesses.
And yet, we know that many people are. Obama’s mother among them.
My daughter was born 10 years ago. I would be shocked if anyone from the hospital remembers her birth besides my wife and myself.
And what previous president has had to prove the validity of their Birth Certificate? Or even produce a Birth Certificate? Where were these people when George Bush or Bill Clinton were elected- why weren’t they clamoring for birth certificates?
I would put it down to politics, except that these same folk hated Bill Clinton at least as much, but they only accused him of killing people, but never demanded to see his Birth Certificate. Why did he get a pass? I am sure that Heavy was busy writing letters to the editor asking why no one was investigating Vince Fosters murder, and JTX was writing to his congressman to ask why the courts wouldn’t rule on whether Vince Foster was murdered or not. But Birth Certificates? No one even mentioned asking about birth certificates. What could be the difference…..
Smear campaigns are opportunistic.
The difference is, Bill Clinton did not claim to be a “native” American under the 14th amendment as Barak (Barry) Obama claims to be.
What did he claim then?
John: “Since Dunham is dead there is no way to coorborate her account and there no way to conclusively prove that Obama was in fact born in Hawaii.’
That’s why God created birth certificates.
jtx: “You are attempting to put words in Janice Okubo’s mouth that she never said. ”
The quotation and context is from Politico.com. I didn’t put words in anybody’s mouth. In any legal proceeding the COLB is sufficient. For conspiracy theorists, nothing is ever sufficient.
Isn’t that the TRUTH…
John, you seem to be making some unusual interpretations of language.
If I went on vacation, and took a picture of the Grand Canyon, then upon my return showed the picture to friends and said “that’s the Grand Canyon”, they would know exactly what I meant. They would not think I was crazy for confusing a canyon with a photo. Normal human beings understand and work with representations of things all the time, there is never any confusion. And if I cut out the face of my ex-wife from the photo, no one would say that this alteration makes the picture somehow “not the Grand Canyon”.
So why does John not understand it when Gibbs says that Obama’s birth certificate is posted on the Internet, or think that a little black box over the number makes it “not Obama’s birth certificate”?
I considered that closed by my February article, http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/02/date-filed-v-date-accepted/
The point is that different years’ certificates have different labels printed on them. Keep in mind that the COLB is a computer generated form consisting of data from the file, and constant labels.
The other fold is just above the label “Father’s Name”. You can see a tiny break in the right side of the left border where a bit if the laser ink flaked off, and you can also see similar disruption on the right side in the middle of the border. It’s very hard to see.
Of course, viewed from the side, as the FactCheck photos are, the fold is obvious.
I would really like for some good investigative journalist to “follow the money” with the Obama denialists. I’d want to know how much money gets donated to the likes of Orly Taitz, and what kind of backing WND gets.
Then Sven wouldn’t have any use for the Factcheck photos.
That’s because birthers buy into their “Messiah” thing. They are sure that wherever little baby Barack was born, there were angels singing and cherabim playing harps. There was a soft glow around mother and child, all was calm, all was bright. Who could forget that even after 48 years?
Normal human beings also understand that if someone (who we’ll called “John”) accused you of altering your picture of the Grand Canyon, you would ask for proof that there’s a difference between the actual Grand Canyon and your picture of the Grand Canyon.
And if John said he heard your picture was a fake from this other guy, who calls himself “Dr. Ron” (but “Ron” isn’t really his name and “Ron” can’t prove he’s really a doctor), normal human beings wouldn’t take much stock in John’s (or “Ron”‘s) opinion.
Jeff I think that is hilarious, but also fertile ground for birther pretzel logic.
Birthers are looking for a Perry Mason moment. According to Heavy it’s probably coming before the end of summer.
I think the birther’s true colors show through in that post.
Actually, TaynaD, Bill Clinton did. He claimed to be born in Arkansas. Just as George W. Bush claimed to be born in Connecticut. Just as George H.W. Bush claimed to be born in Massachuttess, and Ronald Reagan claimed to be born in Illinois. I’d consider Barack Obama to be a “Native” American, as much as I’d consider Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan, George Herbert Walker Bush, Jimmy Carter, Richard Nixon, Al Gore, Dan Quayle, and anybody else who has occupied the offices of the President and Vice President.
In fact, the only two Presidents/VPs that claimed to be anything that deviated from the narrowest interpretation of the Born in the United States definition was Al Gore (born in D.C.) and Charles Curtis (born in Kansas, before Kansas was a state). Charles Curtis was actually the guy who could claim true Native American Ancestry.
Who’s Vince Foster??
You wouldn’t know “true colors” is they bit you in the butt – let’s face it; most of you on this looney lib leftist site are in the tank for the O-borter and don’t give a fig (you think) is he’s not legally elected.
There are millions of people who do, however – they’re called Americans.
TanyaD is insinuating that the other Presidents had IMPLIED NBC according to Article II, Sec. I. Obama being black has a different kind of citizenship granted by the 14th Amendment. Of course she too short cited in her bigotry not realize that Obama is a TRUE A.A and is not even the descendant of slaves.
There are millions of people who do, however – they’re called Americans.
“Millions”? Is that like the “millions” of dollars Obama’s lawyers have spent? Why not go for broke and claim the number is in the gazillions? It would be as about as accurate.
WND’s petition has, what, 400,000 signatures? So, unless you can substantiate your “millions” claim, only 0.1% of Americans — at best — question Obama’s eligibility.
Sure, and they elected him President of the United States.
Funny how that works
why pay attention to the liar judge jtx, don’t waste your time on this hateful bigot, in any event he can’t count above 9 since he he lost his ring finger in Rush’s butt.
slight correction “There are many millions of people who do, however, those that voted for Obama – they’re called Americans.
there, that’s better.
As a U.S. MARINE, todays news of Marine casualties hit me hard, they were like part of my family, though released from active duty many years ago the ties remain strong, Gen Jim Jones, Obama’s Security advisor also shares this feeling. Real Americans as we and millions of us are, jtx has no idea what that means. These fake patriots need garbage thrown in their faces. They are an insult to my brother and all those brave souls in Punch Bowl.
President Obama released his birth certificate and let news organizations look at it. WND has never released that list of 400,000 names. I have no confidence that the number is real.
Slave? Obama is descended from something worse than a slave–a citizen of the UK. Oh wait, so was George Washington. Silly me.
jtx, you a teenager or something?
As a general statement, the Wikipedia is a good place to grab a quick bio on someone.
Hence the “at best”…WND has been caught in so many lies that its numbers are unrealiable. But even assuming they are, that still means 99.99% of Americans haven’t signed their petition.
That was jtx’s attempt to be snarky and rhetorical. I wish this was the forum for HIM to tell us who Vince Foster was. That would give some interesting insight.
Teenager??? Naw, I’m 5 years old just the same as the mental age of most of you who can’t grasp what happens to the country with an illegal prez …
“Funny”??? More like sad!!! And how many of those to whom he lied through his teeth (about much more than just his eligibility) do you suppose would vote for him again once they discover through the legal process that he’s not eligible??
In fact, many of them will no doubt be calling for his scalp.
You really shouldn’t call the O-borter a “hateful bigot”. Not nice.
“…again once they discover through the legal process that he’s not eligible??”
sure jtx, keep waiting, it will happen soon, maybe tommorrow, what delusions you operate under, tell us about your winning case, you know the one you refuse to tells us about.
Are you some of the “real Americans” (and, one might add “fake patriots”) who voted for a man without even knowing whether he was eligible or not … and are now too cowardly to join others in determining eligibility in a proper legal proceeding???
More correctly yet “… those that voted for Obama – they’re called dimwits”.
how many of those to whom he lied through his teeth (about much more than just his eligibility) do you suppose would vote for him again once they discover through the legal process that he’s not eligible
If Obama is “not eligible” (as you claim), how would anybody be able to vote for him again? Isn’t removing Obama from office the whole point of these “legal processes” (that will never occur)?
Do you ever think these things through before typing?
Why because you and some other wild eyed bigots say so? New day kid, the old tricks have run out of steam. You can take a ride on your Swift Boat.
“who voted for a man without even knowing whether he was eligible or not”
hey dummy, we know he is eligible, only idiots like you think other wise. you and your 2 other Birther friends won’t even be a footnote in history. Now tell us about your court case, the one you say proves he is not eligible, that is, if you can babble mouth.
jtx, YOU voted for Obama?
“without even knowing whether he was eligible or no” to the extent it applies at all, applies even more to McCain than it did to Obama. So in your view what, 98% of the voters fall under your disdain.
I would have though an adult would remember who Vince Foster was.
Didn’t you know, Doc? jtx is a registered Democrat. I heard it on the interweb-thingie, so it must be true…..
Jtx Have you served in the military. If you have not put your self on the line then you have no business judging someone who has. At any rate, we are all Americans. I see you as the person most likely to impose your opinions on others by force. Not Obama and not his supporters. Again, we all live here and will be sharing space in this beautiful land in the future. And we will all see President Obama finish his four year term.
Dimwits perhaps, but better known as the winners.
Nope, as with most Americans who voted for Obama, I consider him to be a much better choice than the alternatives, and in fact one of the best choices in recent history. When people raised the specter that Obama was not born in the US, I was pleased to see the COLB which shows him, as expected, born in the US.
Since eligibility was established by the appropriate powers, I have no reason to insist on violating the Constitution and require our President to prove himself eligible once again.
The people have spoken, the electoral college has spoken, congress has certified and found him qualified, SCOTUS has sworn him in.
In other words, a duly elected President and by all credible standards born on US soil and thus a natural born president.
Of course there are a few, sore losers, who insist that Obama somehow failed the eligibility requirements, even though no evidence of such has ever been shown. Furthermore, once duly sworn in, these few sore losers insist on ignoring the Constitution and have the judiciary or the military remove a duly elected President.
Sorry jtx, you lost fair and square. But no worries, you have another opportunity in 2010 and replace the Congress and in 2012, when Obama is up for re-election. And there is nothing you can do about it until then.
Nothing. Other than perhaps whine. And why I generally do not appreciate whining, I am somehow amused by your lack of reason and logic which underlies your continued whining.
I thank you for the entertainment.
jtx, the lying judge that makes stuff up says “dimwits”, was he looking in the mirror. Anyone as locked into the Birther nonsense as strongly as our resident lying judge has to be even less than a dimwit. You must be proud of showing such ignorance or are you embarrassed that people laugh at you? Just wait for that case OK! Idiot!
yah, I heard it on the radio!
“Just watch gigglin’ Gibbs. He knows it’s all but over. He will resign within a month and the house of cards will quickly fall. It’s all ver but the whining, libs. We are taking our country back one step at a time. Those who supported this ILLEGAL regime will have a hard time fitting back into society. Kind of a scarlet letter scenario.”
So Gibbs will definitely have resigned no later than COB July 31st?
I was over at Orly’s house of horros website and I came accross the following…There usual list of demands…
We KNOW that he also refuses and is currently fighting not to release ANY of the following additional potentially damning documentation:
a. Kindergarten records – They are mysteriously the only records missing among his classmates.
b. Soetoro adoption records
c. Fransiskus Assisi School application and records
d. Punahou School records
e. Occidental College records
f. Passport and Passport Records
g. Columbia College records
h. Columbia thesis: “Soviet Nuclear Disarmament”
i. Harvard College records
j. Harvard Law Review articles (do not exist?)
k. Illinois Bar Records
l. Baptismal certificate
m. Medical records
n. Illinois State Senate records
o. Illinois State Senate schedule
p. Law practice client list
q. University of Chicago scholarly articles (do not exist?)
They are requesting his records from kindergarten…Why? What could that possibly have to do with whether or not President Obama is qualified to be President? And his baptismal records? I mean does it get to a point where it becomes ridiculous?
What I love is the request for his attorney client list – like that’s not a complete violation of attorney rules. Why don’t we start asking for Orly’s creds? I want to see her naturalization papers, her school transcripts, her visas and passports, her baptismal record, her attorney client list and dental patient list, her bar exam results, a list of all lawsuits she has ever filed with complaints attached. Anymore??
It’s not about whether he’s qualified to be President. It’s about harassing someone that doesn’t fit their image of an all-American, apple pie, white, anglo-saxon, baptist President. It floors me that they don’t see a real all-American story in Pres Obama’s story. A man with a view beyond the usual lily-white, picket fence, silver spoon upbringing. “Good Gawd ya-ll! The man grew up in such non-white, non-Christian places as Indonesia and Hawaii! His mother even got ( gasp) food stamps! We can’t have this! ” Look at the Obama family, you can’t get more all-American than that! These people are sick, dirty little racists and as time goes on, they are dropping the veil more and more.
What I love is the request for his attorney client list – like that’s not a complete violation of attorney rules.
Actually, it is probably not a per se violation — many clients don’t consider it a secret that they’re being represented.
It is all very Whitewater-esque: Ostensibly, it is a search for eligibility verification, but in reality it is a fishing expedition for Obama’s proverbial Monica.
Kimba & thisoldhippie, I could not agree with you more. I can fathom what those records have to do with anything. Like you said if we started demanding the same info from Orly, Berg, and Swensson, I am sure they would find ways not to release it. People will say that “they are not running for President”, but first of all Obama is the President. And although he is the President, he is still an American and has rights, like the right to privacy.
I find it funny that anyone that does not agree with the birthers is considered a communist and an America hater. The birhters should sit back and evaluate what they are doing. They are the people that are following a Russian, Orly, born in the Soviet Union, as she attempts to overthrow our Constitution and advocates people to rise up in armed insurrection against the duly elected Persident of the US.
Since the birthers like to make up stories and theories about Barack Obama (Indonesian refugee for one), I have decided to join in and make up one for them.
It starts out based in the 60’s and 70’s when the USSR and the Communists decide to errode the United States from within. So they brainwash a young girl and after years of going through this process, plant her in the US. This girl grows up to be a delusional woman with limited grasp of English and barely passable dental skills, becomes an effective sleeper agent. She eventually settles in California. Even though the USSR has fallen, she is still in place. Fast forward to 2008. This sleeper agent, who has now attended an online unaccredited Law School so she is under the delusion that she is an licensed attorney, is activated by Putin to stir up the masses against the new President to weaken the US.
The sleeper agent has become an avowed hater of immigrants and Muslims, has found a way to try and cause problems for the US by attacking the current US President because of his ethnic background and foreign name. She alligns herself with other fringe individuals and right wing publications (like WND) and starts this “birther movement”. These people request a BC that has already been released, come up with new interpretations of the US Constitution, and start demanding that the President release a bunch of personal documents. In addition they get these grand jury nutcases to “issue presentments” against the President. They are attempting to casue chaos throughout the US. However they are being fought by a bunch of patriots that understand the Constitution and what it stands for. A battle between good and evil.
So what do you think? This birther movement has about 250,000 (I am being generous with the number) people out of 305,000,000 that believe in this nonsense. That is less that 1% of the population. So that dastardly plot by the Russians has not fooled a majority of true Americans.
I know, that scenario I just outlined is pretty farfetched. However it is no more farfetched than the “conspiracy” that the birhters want to believe. A birth in Kenya that no one can remember or document, flights from Kenya to Hawaii that cannot be found, fake birth certificates, falsefied announcements in newspapers, and other stuff to numerous to mention.
Maybe we can start this internet campaign to make sure that our country is safe from this Soviet interloper. Who is with me?
no Dummy, its not all about the BC. That’s just the story you follow because you have enough conviction to win that ignorant subject. And you and your five friends just about outnumber the people that give a damn about it anymore.
It’s about his poor policies and ruining a country. Yes, there are only a few people still chasing the BC story, Let Em’, and You just keep laughing at them and keep focused on just that one…what’s your favorite word…passe’..issue. While the real story you fail to realize is the building numbers of people standing against Obama and his pathetic ideas and cabinet. With your BC Blinders on you want to laugh and say there are only a “few” people against this Dictator, when in fact that is far from the truth.
Just one group of caring Americans that want to repair this country before Obama completely ruins it. Be sure to check back in a few days when the website gets updated after last nights Tea Party.
And CZARS?! What the hell is That anyways? This is the United States of America, not Russia. What I’m beginning to believe is Obama voters Like socialism, they like being told by the government what they can and can not do. They care more about what is GIVEN to them than about the Constitution. They think they have rights just because they exist.
The best speaker at last nights Tea Party was a 60+yr old black man, who directed half of his speech to black people, saying they better do their homework, study history, and realize that Obama and Washington are lying to you. Look for the video in a few days.
“…building numbers of people standing against Obama ”
you heard that on the radio,huh! Guess we will keep on laughing at you.
You are the dummy, pal, since the O-borter have never been proved to meet the Constitutional eligibility requirements – regardlwss of what you think you “know”.
Let’s just see documented evidence of eligibility in a court proceeding and if yu have it, why not turn it over to one of the many courts involved so we can see whether it holds up in real life??
And you misstate what has been said. Neither I nor anyone else says a case not yet heard on merit proves (or disproves) eligibility. We wish to know, however. In addition, the actual BC itself is merely a necessary but not sufficient bit of evidence in the matter since the guy has already admitted his daddy was not an American citizen nor died he become one. Whether you like the idea or not, there are plenty of valid, honest questions about this man. Too bad you never either lived in Nazi Germany or can understand the expericnces related by those who did.
I merely want to know the truth about his eligibility … and presently no one knows that – not even you in your assumed omniscience.
Hey Black Lion, I meant to correct something the other day but didn’t get to it. Not an important thing, just doing my best to not lie or mislead as some people believe is all anyone anti-obama speaks.
I’ve never actually ate at a RuthChris steakhouse, I just heard great things about it. But if your in the Jax area I got ya covered on the drinks there. And also friend I have nothing to hide, My name is Ron Ross. I have a website and not like my name isn’t a few other places, so nothing to hide. I use the nickname just to make a point, regardless what others feel.
Happy 4th of JULY ::== 🙂
… oh, and don’t bother carping about typos, etc. as I seldom bother with a spell-checker and am not concerned by the childish attempts of you and others to try to use that as a denigration tool. I think most people reading this biased blog will be able to understand what I am saying and they’d be well advised to think about it.
So thats your NEW bandwagon richyboy? The RADIO? LMAO!!! Your a hoot, a fool but a HOOT! Keep making posts full of nothing, I enjoy your stupidity. Or repeat what your buds say since you have not originality, that is good for a laugh as well. Better yet, come down to a Tea Party with your rhetoric and give us your best speech, that should take about 20 seconds.
Nope, you’re absolutely wrong. The issue is not about race or political party or social outlook or anything else.
It is about his Constitutional eligibility which NO ONE has so far demonstrated. It is a legal issue which should concern any American … but perhaps you think an illegal president (e.g., an ineligible one) is a laughing matter?
“Too bad you never either lived in Nazi Germany or can understand the expericnces related by those who did.”
I don’t get that, how does it relate to Obama’s eligibility?
Love it! Wow, the KGB sure failed in training their “plant”! I think the birther believer population is less than 250,000. Campbell has had 15 grand juries of 20 something people. His “super-grand-jury” of 172 was all repeat customers. He said he has another 170 waiting in the wings. So 4 months after the first grand jury, they have only drummed up less than 500 people? Even when they don’t even have to get out of the barcolounger to participate? They think 500 people are going to over-turn the will of the 130 million who voted on Nov 4th? Delusional. At RSOL there are more anti-birthers commenting than birthers. People’s boredom during the winter’s bad weather gave way to their summer activities with family and other real live people. I’ll bet unique visitor traffic is way down on all the birther sites. Are there still any tea-baggings tomorrow? My personal story for participating here and following birtherdom is as amusement and diversion while I care for a sick family member. That will end eventually too and I’ll move along.
Have a happy 4th everyone.
jtx, although I would like to believe the cause you argue for, and realize your drive stems from the dislike for the Dictator in office now, you have to realize that sorry politicians in office, both Democrats and Republicans, have allowed this to happen and refuse to do a thing about it. Your time and efforts would be better spent moving onto real issues that CAN be won.
Email, Write, Call your Representatives about the insane policies Obama wants passed. Policies he pushes through in record setting time, not allowing anyone even time to read, yet he takes vacation for days after before HE signs them. Policies that will Kill jobs, Raise taxes, and Ruin our Trade system with other countries.
The eligibility issue, although important last year, is a mute issue. It will not be looked at for fear of embarrassment of the entire country. Just friendly advice, take it how you wish.
So NOW who’s indulging in hate speech??? Seems that you are.
You also miss the point that the various attorneys pursuing their cases under the laws of this country are doing so legally, are not running for public office, and have no requirement under the Constitution to be a “natural born citizen” (or even a citizen for that matter).
The O-borter, OTOH, agressively pursued the job he now holds, has never met his obligation of showing that he is eligible under the NBC clause but has sworn under jurat notarization in writing and signed that he IS eligible and meets the Constitutional requirements. Having sworn that legally he now must put his money where his mouth is since any court will require evidence of that sworn statement. You won’t find any serious court saying “… OK Mr. O-borter – we know you wouldn’t fib …”.
If you don’t believe it, google it up … it’s readily avauilable “out there”
The Constitution says very clearly that the way to remove a sitting President is by impeachment and conviction of the Congress. Continuing to pursue avenues outside the Constitution to re-dress your grievance shows it’s not about the Constitution to you people.
Whatever you think about his eligibility, Pres Obama IS the legal President by the 12th amendment. Oh,there’s that Constitution again!
He’s eligible. He was born in Hawaii in 1961. Natural born citizen and over 35. And you still have been unable to prove otherwise.
If you were concerned about the Constitution, you birthers would all have shifted your focus to petitioning Congress. Failing to do so, when you claim to know your Constitution shows your aim is purely to harass and diminish Pres Obama. You’re dirty racists who can’t stand having a black man in the White House.
TRUTH…No problem. RuthChris is an awesome steakhouse. I think you would enjoy it…And if you are ever in the NY area, drinks are on me.
People already have. Got this off of TheRightSideOfLife
It is about his Constitutional eligibility which NO ONE has so far demonstrated.
Where in the U.S. Constitution is a candidate obligated to demonstrate eligibility?
Those citizen grand jurys are the legal equivilant of gathering up a bunch of Ku Klux Klan members, and indicting Alan Keyes for the Sharon Tate murders. With a grand jury hand-picked by the “prosecution”, you can get anyone indicted. No evidence is neccessary. They have already made up their minds going into it, and nothing presented in the Grand Jury will convince them otherwise.
No, it’s where in the U.S. Constitution is a candinate obligated to demonstrate eligibility to the satisfaction of a bunch of idiots who are against the President from the start.
Congress disagrees with you. To prevent continued harassment of the President after being duly elected the Constitution provides for only one single remedy: Impeachment.
Do you not care about the Constitution anymore?
Oh I can understand their experiences and refuse to cheapen it by making inappropriate comparisons.
All the evidence supports his eligibility. That’s enough for me. This is the reason why the Constitution prohibits you from harassing a duly elected President with challenges.
You have three options:
Impeachment after 2010 Elections
Elect a new President in 2012
Those are the simple Constitutional alternatives. And nothing, not even your whining that you don’t know will make any difference, other than amuse me.
I agree, and if you believe that his policies are poor and ruining this country then you surely can oppose him on such a basis.
However, the suggestion that Obama is ruining this Country is in many ways on par with the mentality of Birthers and lacks somewhat in reality.
Obama’s policies on Climate, Healthcare, Economy, Middle Class, and foreign countries is quite refreshening and shows an understanding which goes way beyond some of our earlier Presidents.
Happy insulting.. Now that’s ironic coming from someone claiming to have a legal background but unwilling or unable to present logical evidence, reason and facts and instead believes that using unconstitutional means are to be relied upon to remove a duly elected President of the United States.
Welcome to the twilight zone.
Well Truth, the purpose of this blog is all about Obama’s BC. Those that have a problem with his policies that mix that with the status of Obama’s citizenship, (like you) devalue any legitimate debate they have about anything. There are issues I have with some of his policies, but part of the Birthers tactic stems from some warped thinking they they can overturn elections, overturn 6 months of policies on the hope that some court is going to compel Obama to prove anymore than he has, and in doing so expose the Bithers dream that he is of Kenyan birth.
I know that in the state I live in attorneys are not allowed to release any client information – including whether we represent someone or not – without the client’s specific okay, unless court ordered.
Truth, you risk jtx calling you a turncoat O-borter.
Don’t leave out the whole biracial component. That whole African-Caucasian thing really sticks in the craw of some Birthers.
I don’t know what the profession responsibilities are in Illinois.
I just went to your website; I’m impressed.
Look, you are well educated, we are both Jewish, and both native New Yorkers. I’m triple: New York City, New York County, New York State.
The only way to remove a president, whether de jure or de facto is by impeachment. Obama got 78% of the Jewish vote, mine included. Obama got 80% of the general vote in Philly and Pittsburg, so he carried the state.
The right wing which you are aligning yourself with is riddled with white nationalists, anti-Semites, theocrats, mysoginists, anti-tax radicals and assorted other kooks. Andy Martin is an avowed anti-Semite. Orly is willing to overlook that, but she and Berg do not realize when they are no longer useful, the people like Martin will turn on them.
Obama’s policies are the best for Israel in the long term. A two state solution is the only solution. Jews have Israel, the Kurds have carved out their land from Iraq, so the Palestinians want theirs. I have several Arab friends. They are not Jew haters. I will send you an e-mail about it.
70% of Iran’s population is under 30. An attack could ignite WWIII. And the retaliation against Israel will be horrific. They’ll unleash Hezbollah and Hamas for starters.
If Israel attacks Iran’s reactor, the fallout will kill at least 1,000 people immediately, and thousands more from radiation poisoning. What do you think the mullahs would do? They would not attack Israel initially because they do not want MAD. They are not that crazy. BTW, Mousavi is not much better than Ahmadinejad.
We are fortunate to have Obama as president. After 8 years of Bush, it’s pleasant. I am tired of him and his evangelical coterie. I am tired of his championing ignorance. He made the worst military blunder in US history, and thousands are coming back missing eyes, limbs, with 3rd degree burns and psychiatric cases – for nothing except a chance at Iraq’s oil. BTW, depleted unranium shells are causing horrific injuries to US soldiers and Iraqi civilians. They should be banned. Google it. It’s worse than Agent Orange in Vietnam.
I wrote this before: Obama will be re-elected, and Corey Booker will follow. As an artist, you should want liberals – not the right wing with their anti-progress evangelicals. BTW, evangelicals love Israel but hate Judaism and Jewish culture. And they want Israel to be destroyed in Armageddon so Jesus will come back. Some friends.
Of course none of the 18th or 19th century Presidents would have a BC as we think of them today, because more than likely they had midwives in attendance. However I had no idea that Jimmy Carter is the FIRST U.S President even born in a hospital. Reagan, who was President after Carter was delivered by midwife, in his parents apartment in Tampico, Ill. So the only Presidents who were born in hospitals period are Carter, both Bushes, Clinton, and Obama. Perhaps Reagan’s story needs reexamination. Maybe he was really born in Canada, then spirited back into the states after his birth. Sounds as plausible as Stanley Obama taking an international flight from Kenya with Baby Barack.
“How do these people manage to keep their body fluids from exploding?”
They make sure their precious bodily fluids aren’t sapped and impurified by Communist agitation, Communist inflitration, and Communist indoctrination. Fluoridation. In children’s ice cream, Mandrake.
Under the birfer theory of constitutional law, that means they’ll be a few (forceful) vacancies on the Supreme Court unless Reagan can rise from the dead answer these “serious questions” about his eligibility.
Nothing but Heavy is a bit desperate
Here is an interesting article from PoltiFact that I believe was referenced earlier. Notice the response from the Department of Health spokewoman and about how the locals know where Obama was born…
“They’re just words,” said spokeswoman Janice Okubo. “That (what was posted on the Internet) is considered a birth certificate from the State of Hawaii.”
“There’s only one form of birth certificate,” she said, and it’s been the same since the 1980s. Birth certificates evolve over the decades, she said, and there are no doubt differences between the way birth certificates looked when Obama was born and now.
“When you request a birth certificate, the one you get looks exactly like the one posted on his site,” she said. “That’s the birth certificate.”
As for the theory that Obama’s original birth certificate might show he was foreign born, Okubo said the “Certification of Live Birth” would say so. Obama’s does not. Again, it says he was born in Honolulu.
“We have one more thing we’d like to add. We talked to reporter Will Hoover, who wrote a well-researched story for the Honolulu Advertiser on Nov. 9, 2008, about Obama’s childhood years in the the Aloha State. It ran under the headline “Obama Slept Here.”
In researching the story, he went to the microfilm archives and found the birth announcement for Obama. Actually, he found two of them, one in his Honululu Advertiser on Aug. 13, 1961, and in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin the next day. They both said the same thing: “Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, 6085 Kalanianaole Highway, son, Aug. 4.”
But here’s the thing. Newspaper officials he checked with confirmed those notices came from the state Department of Health.
“That’s not the kind of stuff a family member calls in and says, ‘Hey, can you put this in?'” Hoover explained.
Take a second and think about that. In order to phony those notices up, it would have required the complicity of the state health department and two independent newspapers – on the off chance this unnamed child might want to one day be president of the United States.”
In Honolulu, the Obama tour buses take you by the old Kapiolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital, now called Kapi’olani Medical Center for Women & Children. Federal laws prohibit hospital officials from confirming that he was born there, but Hoover said it’s common knowledge among locals.
You notice how this article quotes actual officials and contained actual research. Unlike a lot of the birther hearsay, which is usually full of conjecture and innuendo…
Someone on Orly’s site posted that Reagan is still alive, and is being hidden.
I couldn’t make this up.
Gordon, Excellent point…How do we know if any Presidents were born where they say they were? How come there was no demand to see St. Ronnie’s BC?
That could be true Gordon. After all, Illinois didn’t start required compulsory registration of births (i.e., birth certificates) until about 5 years after Reagan’s birth. So technically, Reagan’s was a delayed registration. Anyone could have put anything on that form. Anything at all.
And the border was rather porous in those days. Yes, it was pre-car, but there were trains…
Or either Bush, or Clinton or Kennedy, or Johnson and on and on for all 43. (Was Chester Arthurs’ status challenged while in office?) Only Obama. Which of these 44 is not like the others. The “why” is intuitively obvious.
That would make him just shy of 100, and I’m sure his Alzheimer’s isn’t any better.
Oh, if you’re a birther it doesn’t matter. The conspiracy goes further than that. The whole Congress, Electoral College, the FEC and all the states are in on it. So is the Supreme Court. The Bush Administration. Dr Fukino and Janice Okubo are alternately blackmailed by or under the spell of Obama, paid off, under orders of the Republican(!) governor to lie, fear for their lives, are communist, socialist, hippy, atheist sympathizers. It took a cast of thousands to pull of this Usurpation don’t you know. And all of them have managed to keep it on the QT. Nothing would satisfy the crazy birthers.
“When you request a birth certificate, the one you get looks exactly like the one posted on his site,” she said.
With a tip of the hat to my cyber-friend, NBC, Ms. Okubo is declaring everyone born in Hawaii gets a BC stating they were born in Hololulu on Aug 4, 1961.
Of course when she says “exactly like”, she means as to format, not data. I’m sure you know that.
A book, claiming Arthur was born in Canada, was published while he was in office, but I have never seen anything in the newspaper archives [and I dug into the microfilm New York Times of the period] to suggest that there was any popular reaction to it.
Now that’s a truly braindead response. I am sure that most people would understand its meaning but the impact to Sven’s world would be so disastrous that he has to avoid acceptance.
Denial, one of the stages towards recovery
The problem is that the Constitutional issue is nonsense. Obama’s as Constitutional as they get. So if someone raises an issue which is utter nonsense, it is natural for folks to wonder what the “real reason” is. Racism, support for Israel, political smears, money raising scams and special interest issues are all things that “make sense,” while constitutional eligibility strains credibility.
Err, it’s long past ridiculous.
And everyone gets one that says that they are “Barack Hussein Obama II.” You’re really an idiot.
I always thought he was an actor playing the part of an idiot on the Internet.
Thank you Mr. Obvious. I just thought after 2 million BC posts a slightly different subject would be refreshing. ANd besides, I did include the BC within my post, on how its the only thing richy has an knowledge on. Although it isn’t his fault, he can’t cut and paste what isn’t there.
Gordy, I never chased the BC issue. OH I had my say on it plenty of times, but I wasn’t a pursuer of the new OJ case. I gave my two cents from time to time sure, and if you read in here as much as it appears you do you’d know that. Yet your not exactly correct in your other post either Gordy, saying this blog is “all about Obama’s BC”. I believe Doc will even have to disagree to that. This blog is about Obi-Wun “CONSPIRACIES” as the webmaster sees them. Such as Obama wasn’t actually born but instead he was made. Yes man made. On a Farm. Horse farm to be specific. It’s obvious when all he talks is horse$7!*. Smoke that in your BC Pipe.
Sarah Palin’s birth certificate says Russia.
Anything beyond 20 seconds is probably lost on them. My kids have the same problem.
Well, the TRUTH is that other than insults I doubt he is capable of a reasoned discussion.
Thanks, and keen website research on your part. Hope you weren’t looking at some sharp looking CEO in Texas by the same name or something. haha. 🙂
As for Mr. Obama, I appreciate your opinions, however wrong they may be. And to continue and compare him with the previous President doesn’t make what he is screwing up look any better. Sure the Bush admin. had flaws and you can look close at the numbers which are easily scrutinized. But none of that makes Obamas tearing down this country and making it another poor Socialistic place to live any more ok, so stop comparing to the past.
As for your future telling, anticipating he will be reelected, please don’t make ugly threats like that. Talk to any Canadian, ask them how the health care plan is going there. Talk to Cubans, ask them about the Suave, sharp speaking, elegant man that came unto them in 1959 much the same as Obama has here. Ask the Cubans what “Change” they got after Castro took over. Talk to all the steel workers that lost jobs because Unions screwed up and the companies moved overseas instead of paying the ridiculous Union Demands. Do you know ANYONE that went to an Emergency Room and was refused Emergency Treatment? Do you know ANY child that never received their inoculations? YET we’re to completely rebuild the best Health care system on the Planet for a small percentage of uninsured people?! NO, there won’t be a Holocaust, but when your 75 years old and told the 35 year old gets head of the line on surgery because your to old, remember Triple NY who you voted for.
And by the way, how did Chrysler do after their bailout? Failed. How wisely is the rest of the 350billion being spent? You’ve NO IDEA, nobody does. Stand by for a $3000+ annual utility increase. NOPE, no new taxes, they just take your money many other ways. Well, No New taxes….YET.
Actually she said she could See Russia while standing ON her Birth Certificate, or I think thats what they said on the Radio isn’t it richy?
Your kids? Hmmmm.. Apple doesn’t fall far from the Tree.
Funny how you seem to be looking at issue in either black or white. Compare the access to health care in the US with other countries. While Canadians and many others would complain about their health care system, I guarantee that not only would they refuse to give it up, but also would reject any system like the US where profit motives guide decisions over life and death.
I know Obama, I know Castro and my friend, Obama is not even close to a Castro, neither in policy nor in practice.
As to unions causing problems, yes, I am sure that Unions have to blame themselves to a certain extent but it is undeniable that without Unions there cannot be a middle class to speak of and that without unions, many wrongs would never be corrected.
Unions are incredibly relevant in a balance of power between those who have the money and those who actually do the job.
I understand that you are quick to make up arguments but I doubt that you possess the depth of understanding of these issues to really discuss them in any form or manner.
If you refuse to learn from all sides then you have doomed yourself to fight a strawman or perhaps some windmills.
A little knowledge is far more dangerous than either full understanding or no understanding.
You may wonder where TRUTH got his ‘guestimates’ and to no surprise
I warned you my dear friend
I don’t know TRUTH. I only listen to music on my radio.
Things get even worse, the Republicans base their estimates on an MIT study which shows nothing of the kind
Shocking… Or should we not be surprised? And TRUTH, don’t you feel silly now?
By what standard? Infant mortality rates? Nope.
Source: NY Times
Indeed. Thank you. They are smart kids that will hopefully be well equipped to do their homework before making such silly claims as a 3000 dollar utility bill increase… Of course, at their present age, they may have fallen for the hoax as they do seem to take things on authority. Which of course, given the evolutionary history of our species is understandable.
Now that she seems to have resigned as Governor, I wonder what her next step will be…
Re-elect Obama 1012?
I apologize to Dr C for getting side tracked but I do not suffer foolish statements lightly especially if one has all the information available for research.
The formed an LLC with a majority stake by the UAW, and minority stakes by Fiat, the US and Canadian government.
Time will tell.
YOU ROCK! I want to start a website called “The Weiner Nation featuring Orly T’aint” and expose the entire truth about these rabble rousers such as Michael Savage, Orly Taitz, Bill O’Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Carl Swensson, etc. My husband will listen to Savage sometimes on his way home from work and gets teed off, but then he read about who Savage really is and now realizes that this far left liberal who swam naked with Ginsberg and hung out with Dr. Timothy Leary is just in this for the money. All of these who are pushing the issue are making money off these poor birthers and Obama haters.
We elect a President for four years. I never voted for President Bush but thought the “impeach Bush” crowd forgot as you do that elections results count. There has been way to much “this election was not fair” or “Acorn did it” or “they robbed us of Ohio and the election” from both sides. The difference this time is the threat of sedition, violence and the threat to those of us who disagree. We are socialists or worse traitors. This is a very diverse country politically. That could be a strength if both sides present plans and not slogans or threats. I am a citizen of this country by virtue of my birth and as much an American as those who disagree with me politcally. They as also my fellow citizens.
Don’t forget David Horowitz, who used to hang with Black Panther Huey Newton.
Then he switched sides. Another conservative hypocrite.
I am a graduate of Canisius College. A lot of the Jesuits there were active in the Catholic peace movment, and used the Berrigan Brothers as examples in their lectures. I never heard one anti-Semitic word in my four years there.
I also volunteered with the St.Vincent de Paul Society, and they invited me to Mass with them. Very interesting.
First I don’t care to reply to most of your hypocritical comments. You call me an insulter when you have made numerous insults.
What exactly is your concern with the comment about the average household getting a $3000 increase because of the Cap n Trade? OTHER than it wasn’t a Democrat that said it? Because that is exactly what your saying, that if a Republican reported it(not me) then it must be fluffed up lies. But when the Congressional Budget oFfice says it, then its correct. How STUPID. Don’t they work close with the same people that approved the FannieMae/Freddie deals? GREAT Number crunchers they were.
Then you cut/paste that $3100 quote. BIG DEAL! What the world is that supposed to mean to me? I guess the man that reported it read a copy of the WND once, so HE is now not reputable. You said NOTHING, except I’m supposed to now “feel silly”. Should I also feel silly for wearing an orange shirt today NBC? It’s kind of the same relevance.
NBC, heres a CLue…YOUR THoughts and Beliefs are NOT ALWAYS Gospel just because they are in your little brain. They are what YOU believe. I don’t wake up in the morning, pull a $3000 comment out of my dreams or even OFF the Radio(thats for richyrich) and base my posts from just that. But neither do I need to justify my posts to YOU. Mostly because You already know Everything.
My best friend voted for Obama. He’s a union man and votes strictly democrat. He has tried to support Obama, but has already had a lot of regrets. People are awestruck at the HOPE of CHANGE, almost brainwashed. His daughter wanted H.Clinton to win bad, hated Obama, but she voted for him also because of her dad. People believe what they hear when they hear it from someone they trust. Your kids don’t stand a chance.
“You’re dirty racists who can’t stand having a black man in the White House.”
Truth is quietly turning this site into an up or down vote on President Obama’s policies. There are are thousand other sites devoted to those opinions.
BTW, federal loan guarantees were started by Nixon with Lockheed.
Could he have been a LIBERAL?!
Right, even though it comes straight from debunked republican sources.
Who are you trying to fool here? Honestly TRUTH you have been pwned for your foolish comments based on a lack of research.
I am fascinated how TRUTH still is willing to argue his case even though at least two of his ‘arguments’ have been shown to be severely flawed.
Mary Brown, not only are you on target, but so often the voice of reason.
I showed you how your estimate was based on a Republican abuse of an MIT study while the studies all show a 80-125/year increase.
Are you not embarrassed for you using these numbers?
Right. Kucinich threatened impeachment, and Pelosi stopped it. After Nixon and Clinton, it would have become tit for tat. I’m a loyal Democrat, and I thought it was a bad idea.
We have elections. Use them.
“the Dictator in office now”
He was fairly elected, and got more than twice as many electoral votes as McSame. If anyone trampled on the Constitution, it was Bush and Cheney.
“Policies he pushes through in record setting time, not allowing anyone even time to read”
Like the Iraq war resolution? Congress was stampeded, and anyone who spoke against it was called all kinds of insults.
” yet he takes vacation for days after before HE signs them”
Like Bush spending weeks in Crawford? Talk about fiddling while Rome burns.
“Policies that will Kill jobs, Raise taxes”
Obama is trying to save the US auto industry because he does not want huge job losses. When Clinton was president, he oversaw the greatest run-up in the Dow’s history. When he left office, there was a $212M surplus. I agree with Obama: the tax code should go back to where it was when Clinton left office. Liberals tax and spend; conservatives borrow and spend. We are going to pay for Iraq for the next 50 years, just as we are still paying for Vietnam.
Here are some gems from W: ‘We have learned from British intelligence that Iraq has attempted to obtain uranium from Africa.’
‘If we don’t act against Iraq now, we will be looking at a mushroom cloud.’
Cheney: ‘Mohammed Atta met with Iraq intellignce in Baghdad.’
“Ruin our Trade system with other countries.”
Reagan protected Harley. He put stiff tariffs on Japanese big bikes. You can google it.
“I wonder what her next step will be…”
She’s going to devote herself to saving the poor Jewish people, so they don’t spend eternity in Hell when Armageddon comes, which is any day now.
Remember, her church preaches that Auschwitz and terror against Israel is divine retribution because the Jewish people do not accept G-d’s only son.
My wife told me that when I was in a coma from a stroke, a missionary came to my bed wanting to baptize me in case I did not wake up. She sent him away.
You know what I’d like to see? I like to film a missionary trying to baptize a cat. Can you say ’emergency room’?
“YET we’re to completely rebuild the best Health care system on the Planet for a small percentage of uninsured people?!”
Health care is right, not a privilege. And all humans deserve to be treated with dignity. Remember, in Judaism to save one life is like saving all of humanity.
When I worked as a licensed optician, I always treated charity clientele with dignity. That was my duty. I met my wife over the dispensing table. She told me Chinese are frequently treated as a nuisance.
“And by the way, how did Chrysler do after their bailout? Failed.
You have absolutely no idea how bankruptcy works, do you?
“YET we’re to completely rebuild the best Health care system on the Planet for a small percentage of uninsured people?! NO, there won’t be a Holocaust, but when your 75 years old and told the 35 year old gets head of the line on surgery because your to old, remember Triple NY who you voted for.”
I hate to tell you this but the Australian health system, to employ the Australian vernacular, pisses all over the American.
My mother is 80 and has multiple health problems. Her health care (via the public government-funded Australian system) is first-rate.
“There’s little evidence that the Founding Fathers were inspired by Slavic autocracies when they drafted the framework of our republic, but the term has a fairly long tradition in US politics. President Johnson appointed a “poverty czar” in 1964, President Reagan appointed a “drug czar” in 1982, President Clinton appointed an “terrorism czar” in 1998, and President Bush appointed a “war czar” in 2007.”
I apologize for getting side tracked on something which was so obviously wrong that I had to show that at least three studies show the yearly increase to be around $100. Somehow the Republicans took one of these studies, by MIT, and reported a value 30 times larger than the real one.
That’s just unbelievable and that people accept such outrageous estimates is quite a shocker to me.
In reply to “John’s” comment on July 2, where he doubts Obama was born in a hospital, then spouts the usual spam about why no Doc or KMCWC staffer remembers the birth: where does the Constitution require the name of the birth attendant? I was a Labor & Delivery nurse at Kapiolani & I’ll state that it is always a privilege to be present when a new life begins but, like any other job, it gets routine & I can only recollect a handful of deliveries I attended. My favorite anecdote about this: I was checking out at a store & the clerk kept looking quizzically at me. She asked what I did for a living & when I said I was a nurse, she recalled that I’m in the pix of her child’s delivery. Lord knows how many photo albums have pix of me bundling up or weighing someone’s newborn. Do I remember? No.
Guessing Ann Dunham’s OB/GYN is a parlor game for nurses here in Hawaii. I hope we’ll know one day but we take HIPAA seriously & won’t compromise our ethics to satisfy the Birthers, who’ll just move the goal posts anyway. I have my own guess & his daughter is an OB/GYN practicing here. I’m sure she’d get a kick our of knowing her Dad was first to hold the future President. Fun supposition but it has zero impact on the fact that Obama was born in the USA & is a NBC. But keep trying John. I say send all your pennies to WND for those billboards. Best strategy I can imagine for keeping the DNC in power until 2016.
I have a good friend who is a dual U.S./American citizen(born in U.S. to Canadian parents, so some would say not eligible for President- ha) who grew up in the U.S., and moved there after working about 10 years in the U.S. He cannot imagine going back to the U.S. healthcare system. For him, not having to worry whether he lost his health insurance when he lost his job was the big thing. He has had no complaints about the healthcare he or his kids have gotten in Canada.
I have friends in Europe who say the same thing. Meanwhile, I know young people in the U.S. with no insurance, I know people in the U.S. who won’t change jobs because of heath insurance issues.
When I hear these scare tactics about health care, I always wonder- who believes them. When they ask whether we want the government ‘rationing’ our health care- well guess what Medicare does that now and better than the ‘for-profit’ insurance companies who ‘ration’ my healthcare. Thats right- my healthcare is rationed by my insurance company. And they hate paying for anything.
I love how the opponents of a universal healthcare system always talk about delays in medical treatment, refusal of medical treatment, the fact that people who are uninsured in the US can get medical treatment. Well, I can gurantee that these people have actually never been through the system. Your health insurance, if you have it, dictates your medical treatment. They can deny coverage for whatever reason they dream up and they can delay treatment while they review the request. Getting in to see a doctor in the US can take 3 or 4 months if you are a new patient because doctors can get away with making you wait. When my husband was unemployed and without insurance we tried to get him treatment for the flu. No such luck. No doctor would see us without $200 up front and the health dept. here only treats women and children, except they will give men STD tests. Our only option was the ER for which I am still paying the bill. So don’t tell me we have “the best healthcare system in the world.” You’ve just been lucky.
You and many others on this blog do not seem to realize that the issue is not the BC at all (though that is a necessary but not sufficient part of the situation) but about the man’s Constitutional eligibility to hold the office he now sits in,
After all, he has admitted that when born his father was never a US citizen and that he himself was governed by British law. That clearly makes him ineligible no matter where he was born, but it would be interesting to know, for example, if his name is really Barack Hussein Obama (I, II, II, etc.) or Barry Soetoro … or something else completely. Let’s be clear – no matter the vital statistice, this man has been known to lie BIG TIME.
Thanks for the input, but actually my motivation has nothing to do with my like/dislike for the O-borter as an individual.
My opposition to him stems from the fact that he has violated the Constitution and is not eligible for the office he was elected to. Many of those on this blog do not seem to realize that allowing such a fundamental violation of the Constitution will clearly obviate that document and the contractual relationship it serves between the government and the citizens of the country.
For my money, both the major political parties are worthless as well as all 535 members of Congress now sitting since they have not done the job they gave their Oath to do. Debating and voting on each specific policy and act is truly a waste of time when the overriding basis that keeps us from mob rule (called a “democracy” – which we are not) is in the process of being destroyed. Look back to the history of Nazi Germany if you’d like to see what is happening.
Then why does WND keep asking “Where’s the Birth Certificate?”? Because even Farah knows that if Barack Obama was born in Hawaii, he is a natural born citizen period.He knows Barack’s father’s status doesn’t matter.
“All the evidence supports his eligibility.”
Actually, nothing could be further from the truth. The man has actually told everyone that he is ineligible when saying that his pappy was not (ever) a US citizen. The fact that few recognized that statement for what it really was does not make the man eligible.
Since he is not eligible, there can be no “impeachment” per se as he has never been a legal holder of the office. There are other legal removal options than the ones you mention however. The 2012 elections are actually the least palatable of all of them.
The man should be publicly shown as ineligible and should face the law for the crimes he will have been guilty of. Let’s not forget that he has sworn in writing that he IS a natural born citizen and is Constitutionally eligible. Considering that he says he’s a “Constitutional lawyer” he absolutely must know that he is NOT eligible despite his fans who will then protest that he “just didn’t know” or “was just mistaken in thinking he was elibible”. Sorry, that just doesn’t wash.
You’re letting your racism overwhelm your common sense. The issue has nothing to do with race, political party, nor social views despite your obvious visceral hatred of Bush.
It is about his lack of Constitutional eligibility and the corresponding violation of that document and its relation as the contract between our government and its citizens.
“Qualifications” are not the same thing as “Eligibility” BTW and pretending that is the issue is utter nonsense.
When Obama was born on US soil he was born under US jurisdiction and thus a natural born citizen. When he reached the age of majority, he maintained his US birth right.
What part do you not understand? And why do you insist on using non-Constitutional means to have a duly eligible President removed from power?
That clearly makes him ineligible no matter where he was born
…or so said a semi-professional poker player.
Are you aware of the many critiques of Donofrio’s “analysis”?
jtx understands…But like most birthers chooses to ignore the facts…They get in the way of the birther conspiracies….
Your arguments are getting more and more desperate and at odds with Constitutional law, case law and common law.
It’s good to hear that the focus is shifting, quite predictably, from show me the birth certificate to “he was born to a foreigner”.
Anyone familiar with the legal rulings from the early republic would realize that anyone born on US soil, even born to two aliens, is still a natural born citizen because he is born under the Jurisdiction/Allegiance of the United States.
The founders of course understood that the diverse citizenship laws could cause children to hold multiple citizen-ships and as long as the child made a choice before reaching the age of majority, the birth right would be continued.
He is duly sworn in and now only Congress can impeach him. That’s the Constitution my friend. Do you not care?
You are confusing fact and belief. You have a chance in 2010 and certainly in 2012 to get your choice of President voted into office.
Good luck my friend, until then, there appear to be few legal avenues.
This also shows that the ‘controversy’ will not go away with the President showing again his Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth aka Birth Certificate.
Better spend the time, effort and resources on US policy, I’d say.
Seems that he reached an agreement to reduce nuclear arms.
jtx — your interpretation of the Constitution is simply out of the mainstream view. That is… it is NOT one that is accepted by Constitutional scholars (law professors) or by the vast majority of lawyers (including 100% of the lawyers who happen to be serving in the US Congress, and the various lawyers who ran against Obama in the primaries, such as Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, etc.)
All the law professors, all the people in Congress, all the legal-trained candidates uniformly agree that born in the US = natural born citizen, no matter what the citizenship of the parent, and irrespective of any sort of dual nationality.
The PROOF of that is simply that everyone has always known that Obama’s father was Kenyan — after all, Obama wrote a whole book about it before he ever ran for public office. Obviously if there were a LEGAL issue based on that, it would have occurred to someone to raise it.
So it doesn’t make sense to say he is “clearly” ineligible: at best, you’ve got an argument that he may have been ineligible, if the courts adopted what is very clearly a minority view on how to interpret the Constitution. (After all, you have to admit that the Constitution doesn’t spell it out — all it does is use a phrase “natural born citizen” and the disagreement is over how to interpret that phrase).
I wrote “may have been ineligible” rather than “may be” ineligible because the Constitution DOES say who should make the decision as to whether a President is qualified. That’s in the 20th Amendment, and it says CONGRESS makes that determination when they certify the electoral college votes.
You have a legitimate ARGUMENT on the dual citizenship/parentage issue, but that is all it is: an argument, espousing what is clearly a minority view. That happens all the time in the law: people can disagree on how to interpret laws and the Constitution.
But its a “past due” argument — it needed to be raised and asserted in Congress prior to the election. Because on January 8th, Congress made a binding determination that Obama was qualified to be President, and after that he was sworn in. So the Constitution has been followed procedurally — and under our system of law, procedure is what counts. (That’s what “due process” means: we can’t guarantee that the right decision will always be made, but we can guarantee that the right procedures were followed. So its o.k. under our laws if an innocent person is convicted of a crime, as long as they had a fair trial; and similarly if a guilty person is acquitted after a trial, they cannot be reprosecuted).
I don’t know what you personally were doing before the election to raise this issue – but the point is, it can’t be raised now, at least during this term. It HAS to be raised through the political process, and again… its a minority view.
Since the WEIGHT of authority is against you – and favors the view that “born in USA”=”natural born” — and since the vast majority of legal scholars and lawyers believe that born in USA = natural born, including published law review articles — Obama’s status as a Constitutional lawyer only refutes your point. Given his training, he would know that the law is on his side.
You are the one who is grasping at straws to support your view, reaching back to long-since discredited court opinions like Minor v. Happersett or the Dred Scott case, or citing from a late translation of De Vattel, to frame your argument. A Constitutional lawyer like Obama would know that the courts look first to the most recent decisional law, not the oldest.
So if Obama was going to do what lawyers and law professors do to research the issue, he’d start with Perkins v. Elg and move forward in time (not back) — shepardizing the case to review other authorities that have cited to it.
Orly and her delusional followers are at it again. They have a top 10 posting on President Obama documenting why he is ineligible to be President. The amusing part is how as usual they are relying on universially discredited informatiion to support their delusionals. It goes to show you that no matter how many times you provide proof that their beliefs are wrong, they are still determined to believe in their delusions. The best part is how they footnote the information to make it look more believable. And some of the places they cite as a source. They should have just used WND, it would have been as credible.
Top Ten Things That You Should Know About
Barack H. Obama’s, (a/k/a Barry Soetoro) US Citizenship
1. He may not be a natural born citizen qualified to serve as President under Article II of the Constitution
2. He is a suspected illegal alien for two possible reasons
3. He took elected office and was admitted to the Illinois Bar under an alias
He admits he was born to an American mother and a British subject, suggesting dual citizenship at best. If he was not born on U.S. soil, and his mother was a minor, she was ineligible to convey US citizenship. Under the British Nationality Act of 1948, he was born a British Citizen. His paternal grandmother claims to have attended his birth in Kenya. Kenya memorializes his place of birth.
At age 3, his mother and father divorced. His mother remarried and his step-father enrolled him in school in Indonesia as “Barry Soetoro.”
At age 10, after his mother’s second divorce,he reentered the US by casually and illegally assuming his birth name. Later still, he ran for and won elected office under his birth name without disclosing his legal name or his prior use of alternative names.
No record of any legal name change from Barry Soetoro’ to Barack Obama’ has ever been found.
4. He probably lost his citizenship.
An Indonesian citizen at age 6, having been adopted by a national, he may be in the US illegally. USC §1481(a)(2) provides loss of nationality by natural born citizens upon “taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state … after having attained the age of eighteen years,” in violation of 8 U.S.C. §1401(a)(1). Indonesia did not allow for dual citizenship. If Obama got an Indonesian passport in 1981, when he was 20 years old, he effectively renounced any U.S. citizenship he may have had.
5. He is suspected of secretly holding a foreign passport.
When he traveled to Pakistan in college’, Americans were not allowed into that country. If he traveled on an Indonesian passport in 1981 at age 20, he was and remains an Indonesian citizen.
6. He posted an illegitimate birth record to deflect questions and allegations.
7. The Certification of Live Birth is a suspected forgery.
The “Certification of Live Birth” shown on FightTheSmears.com is not a birth certificate, but an image of an abstract that was invalidated by alteration. As indicated on that same image, the blacked out certification number invalidates the document. Document analysis shows it to be a suspected forgery.
The border is one that is used in 2007 COLBs. As a security measure, Hawaii changes their borders every year. This is when the Obama campaign claims the certificate was obtained. However, the seal and signature stamp are from a 2008 COLB. As revealed by a process called edging, the Hawaiian seal and signature stamp on the back of the document are revealed to be from the wrong year. Document experts have analyzed other aspects and find forgery.
8. He refuses to release relevant records.
Since matters available in the public domain raise these issues, the burden rests on Obama/Soetoro to explain. He declines to release college applications, transcripts, his birth record, or addresses of where he has lived.
9. His selective service registration may be falsified.
A FOIA document shows a 2008 sequence number for a supposed 1980 registration, an incorrect date of signature, an obsolete postal stamp and other discrepancies. Did he register at age 18 like everyone else?
10. Not a single cause of action has been won by Obama on the merits.
All pending suits attempting to get Obama/Soetoro to produce simple documents have been dismissed on technical grounds such as the standing of the plaintiff. Therefore, the courts, including the Supreme Court of the United States have never ruled on the merits of his citizenship.
 “Dreams from my Father”
 Section 301(a)(7) of the Immigration and Nationality Act of June 27, 1952, 66 Stat. 163, 235, 8 U.S.C. §1401(b)
 FightTheSmears.com admits: “When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.s children. Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.” However, Obama should have reaffirmed allegiance under 8 USC 1401 et seq. upon turning 18. He did not.
 AP photo Image of registration shown at http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=72656
 18 USC 1001: It is a federal crime punishable to lie to a federal official, which would include immigration and election.
 The divorce decree confirms he was adopted by an Indonesian citizen.
 Title 8 USCA 1401, 1481, & 1483
 A new revelation made during a public campaign appearance in San Francisco in April of 2008 wherein his abilities in the arena of foreign relations was under discussion.
It’s been over a decade since Barack Obama wrote Dreams from My Father, which declared for the whole country who his parents were. That’s what I call telling the truth big time.
If he were “clearly” ineligible they he clearly wouldn’t been elected, and the state secretaries of state (or at least some of them) clearly wouldn’t have allowed him on the ballot, and the Congress clearly wouldn’t have declared him eligible by certifying the election with objection.
So to use the word “clealy” alongside your crank eligibility theories is what I think one can objectively call a BIG TIME lie.
My Church newsletter is asking us to attend a pancake benefit at another church of our denomination. Why? An 18 year-old has been denied coverage because of a pre existing condition. But we all know we can’t raise enough to really help her. Her illness requires tests to determine treatment. Well they can’t do the tests because neither she nor her parents have the funds. Who runs our health care? Your favorite insurance company that’s who.
Well over a decade, Dr. C. The first edition of Dreams from my Father was published in 1995.
I think it is time for people of faith to realize that health care reform is a moral issue.
For too long the religious conservatives have been the plaything of the political right. It’s time for them to remember that the nations are judged by how they treat their weakest members, not whether the estates of multi-millionaires have to pay the “death tax”.
I’d say that the birth of a “Black” baby to a white woman in Hawaii in 1961 would have been VERY unusual and noteworthy. Think about the talk around the water cooler. SOMEONE would have come forward by now just to cash in. Of course, they would have to PROVE that it actually happened.
Face it folks, this guy is a fraud from the word go. It’s only a matter of time before it all comes out.
Heavy, you forget that President Obama was born in Honolulu. At the time it was one of the most diverse cities in the United States due to the ethnic makeup and the fact that Pearl Harbor Naval base was there. I doubt that it would have been that big an issue at that time. It wasn’t like he was born in Birmingham or Little Rock in the 1960’s…
Really? Honolulu had a black population of 1.5% in 2000. I doubt it was HIGHER in 1961. What do you think?
Any time soon now? Based on what? As others have pointed out, Hawaii was quite diverse around the 1960’s.
I predict by 2012 there is an opportunity for voters to reconsider.
Good luck my dear friend. You’ll need it
Luck is not required when truth is on your side. Thanks for the good wishes, though.
I notice how you did not comment on the facts.
As to luck, since you have failed to show that there exists any truth to your claims, you’d better call it wishful thinking.
As such, good luck my dear friend. 40+ lawsuits and still nothing…
Did you hear btw about Obama’s agreement with Medvedev?
“Did you hear btw about Obama’s agreement with Medvedev?”
I know. The summit meeting is going well. We are fortunate to have him as president. We need more people of his caliber in public service.
I would really like to go to Russia to teach. Fascinating country.
You are missing the point. Hawaii is and was a very diverse State.
Furthermore, this is something that happened 47 years ago.
Too bad really that Heavy’s ‘facts’ rely on absence of evidence rather than on actual data.
Finally we have a President who is willing and able to restore the United State’s position in the world as a leader.
I am looking forward to his leadership on healthcare reform. It’s about time.
No, you are missing the point. As “Diverse” as you claim Honolulu to be, it would have been very noteworthy for a black baby to be born to a white woman in 1961. NOONE has come forward of ANY recollection of this event. Surely SOMEONE would have tried to capitalize on their being present at the supposed event or even their knowledge of it.
The FACT I refer to is that Honolulu had a black population of less than 2% in 2000. That makes blacks a sigificant MINORITY.
Black is just one of the many diversities found on the island. Children being born to mixed race couples was nothing new in Honolulu.
But even if you were correct, the absence of anyone remembering should not be confused with evidence that Obama was not born in Honolulu. For that we have his COLB and the birth announcements.
Good luck in 2012.
You can remain intellectually dishonest, or ignorant, if you like. The fact remains.
If memory serves me right (and census data IS available to double check) there were a couple thousand black residents in Hawaii in 1960.
But black people have babies, and this is not unusual, and I do not see how such an event would be seared in the brain of someone who may have delivered a thousand other babies, so that they would remember it after 48 years.
And it may well be that someone who might have remembered it is dead (e.g. Dr. Rodney West) and someone else might not want to be involved with the nutcase who run around in Klan robes or pretend to be their own private army/judge/jury/executioner.
There is another name for a donkey, if you take that name and couple it with “hole” you will have an accurate description of our resident troll, You know the one that keeps using the words “truth” and “facts” yet doesn’t supply either.
As for mixed races in Hawaii, my family is mixed race, my first daughter was born in 1965. The best man at my wedding was married to a black woman. (they had 1 daughter).
As for Obama’s meeting with the Russians, every newspaper in the world referred to Obama as America’s President meeting with Russia’s Prime Minister and President, not a one called him the usurper, what’s up with that.
Doc, yes blacks have babies just like any other race. But a black baby born to a white woman in 1961 was a RARE event no matter where it occurred, especially in such a small community. We are not talking about NYC.
You are too harsh on yourself my dear friend. Just because you believe that the birth must have been remarkable enough to be remembered, even though we have some anecdotal evidence that it was not the fact that the child was black but rather that the name of the woman was Stanley which caused someone to remember the event.
Of course, as people have explained, mixed births were hardly that rare in Hawaii. To argue that somehow the birth of Barack should be remembered is just plain silly. You seem to be ‘arguing’ that the lack of evidence should be seen as evidence.
That’s what happens when the facts do not support your position. And we know that the facts show Obama born on US soil.
There were 14,906 births in Honolulu in 1961. Even at 1% of births, that would be 149 black babies every year, the majority of whom were probably born at Kapi’olani (less than 100 births were recorded as born outside of a hospital that year). That’s more than 2 a week.
That’s RARE ENOUGH, NOTABLE ENOUGH, and doggone it, UNFORGETTABLE ENOUGH that someone should come forward (not).
DC Judge: Grand Jury Presentments Denied
It’s been a sad day in Birfistan. Franken is sworn in giving the Democrats 60 votes in the Senate, the DC Judge says the grand juries mean nothing and the Department of Justice weighs in on Keyes v. Obama. Last week was bad enough, but just when they thought it was safe to go back in the water, SHARK!
But Aristotle the Hun of steadydrip says if we are mistaken. “There is no reason to consider this bad news nor should obots rejoice. Tactics often obscure strategy”
Ok, so they are trying really really hard to convince themselves, ‘oh yep, we knew this would happen, just a tactic, you cannot perceive our strategy.’ When yesterday they were high-fiving that the Judge Chief Magistrate ( and Lord God King Bufu?) was giving their case a number and they were going to be heard! was actually just a tactic. Good one! It’s like my old gramma used to say to me ‘there there honey, when the world gives you lemons, make lemonade!’
Some at tRoSL thinks this will lead to a decision by SCOTUS (due to their grievously erroneous reading of what Scalia has said in passing about grand juries).
Of course, that grand strategy would require an appeal first to the D.C. Circuit. Who will doing that? Berg? Hemenway? Taitz? Apuzzo? Swennson?
Can the decision be appealed since it was filed under miscellaneous. Not a real case.
“Miscellaneous” cases can still be appealed. (“Miscellaneous” is, as the name implies, the catch-all category for cases that cannot be otherwise readily catagorized.)
The denial order can be appealed. Which is why I’m surprised the court went to the effort to issue an order.
I’m surprised too… same reason… but maybe the Judge is tired of the birther nonsense and wants to put an end to it. (Obviously an appeal will lose, but the process of appealing puts some burden on the people who were trying to file the thing).
But I’m still not sure its an appealable order. Can you cite to authority? (I can see it is a final order… its just that there isn’t really a “case”, so I don’t know whether the appropriate procedure would be a direct appeal or a writ procedure)
kimba: “there there honey, when the world gives you lemons, make lemonade!”
In the birther’s case, I think it’s “when the world gives you a pig, put lipstick on it.” 😉
By assigning it a number, the order becomes referenceable, so the next time the clerk gets one of these do-it-yourself grand jury presentments, they can refuse to accept it and cite the judge’s order. I’m speculating that this presentment was novel in the district, so the judge wanted to set a precedent on how to handle it. The other virtue of the order is that it provides a mini civics lesson to the public.
Off the top of my head, no authority, other than it is final order that disposes of the matter. (The order itself seemed to construe the filings as a motion for leave to file.)
Because there is an order, I think the rememdy is to appeal. (If there was no order, then the Super American Grand Jurors could have filed a writ petition.)
I agree. I’m curious if the judge will go to the next level, and publish the order in the F.Supp.2d.
” not a one called him the usurper, what’s up with that.”
They are part of the conspiracy – haven’t you figured that out yet? Obama’s people are clever, and they are EVERYWHERE. Obama has agents in Greenland. Orly told me, and Sven and jtx confirmed it.
Nice try, doc. How many of those black babies were born to white women named Stanley. Um, probably NONE! Talk about thin.
A black baby born to a white woman in Honolulu (Or ANY town for that matter) in 1961 would have been the talk of the town!
you seem to latch on to the flimsiest excuses to support your hate of Obama, instead of of all your silly excuses give us some supportable evidence (which you seem to avoid)
“talk of the town!”, only to a bigot like you.
Yes. That’s it. I MUST be racist! Facts scare liberals to death.
Then give us few of those scary facts (which you always refuse to do), and stop denying you are a racist, your comments give you away. “scare liberals to death”, what an ignorant statement. Buzz words make idiot wingers like you very happy in your hate and bigotry. You forgot to add “Messiah”. Go back to believing the earth is 6000 years old and revel in your ignorance.
Wow! You know more about me than we do about your “Messiah”. Hmmmm…….
this “your “Messiah” crap, though intended as an insult, only identifies you as a complete idiot, you should really stop doing it. It has failed as a right wing talking point and you don’t know it. Do people point at you and say “Hey dummy”?
Now, try giving us some of your facts (you can’t, can you)
Please refer to YOUR last post. And yes, he is thought of as a diety by most of the left. Its no talking point. It is the truth. YOU have to live with that, not me.
You’re a liberal then? After all why are you so afraid of Obama’s COLB showing him born on US soil?
Have you written several books? Have we seen your certification of live birth? Now that the court has rejected the Super Grand Jury and Orly is going to be ‘slapped’ by the court, is it not time to start planning for 2012 rather than deny the facts?
I’m taking care of today what needs to be done today. Yes, I have written several books. Four, as a matter of fact. I’d be happy to supply proper documentation of my citizenship status if I choose to run for office.
Your guy, on the other hand, has done none of the above. He os a paper tiger soon to touch flame.
Those are facts.
Book Titles please. I would love to see what you have written, or is this like truth’s registered democrat story.
Let me know when you run for president…
De facto or de jure ROTFL…
“Yes, I have written several books. Four, as a matter of fact.”
What are the ISBN please? Of course, titles too.
“Before we ever exchanged ambassadors, we exchanged goods,” Obama said at a US-Russia business forum in Moscow, which he addressed as part of a state visit to the Russian capital. “Along the way you gave us a pretty good deal on Alaska. Thank you,” Obama said to laughter and applause from the audience.
The usurper seems to be getting a lot of respect, what’s up with that.
Misha, hon, I would not let you sick, twisted fools know who I am for any reason. Suffice it to say, they are not books that any of you libs would have any interest in. Nor do they have any relevance to this site or politics.
Respect from fools is worthless, just like you.
“Suffice it to say, they are not books that any of you libs would have any interest in. Nor do they have ant relevance to this site or politics.”
Right wingers often rely on appeal to authority to defend their points. More than often, the authority they appeal to is fiction. This is similar to right wing evangelicals’ who supply phony PhD’s and titles. Ignorant people often fall for this (they don’t check and the liars don’t expect them to check). “Yes, I have written several books”, besides being a bigot, heavy is a liar as well. Heavy would say “The clan would come out in force if a black man had a baby with a white woman, there would be noise”. Sure heavy, sure!
Could be, honey, could be.
Keep smoking that crap and…Well we can already see what it does to your brain.
Why do all liberals call anyone who disagrees with racists? Because THEY are the raciscts.
You have some very severe emotional issues and you CLEARLY hate white people. Stew in your own jucies, FREAK!
sure *bigot sure, hey you forgot the “messiah” thing, don’t forget that!
(*or is that Mr. Bigot)
Obama is my president, Jesus Christ is my Messiah. You keep calling Obama the Messiah, that is blasphemy!
It is not a question of disagreeing with you, you show all traits of a right wing talking points led bigot, therefore you are! Your words give you away. Still lying about those 4 books?
But of course, the birth to a woman named “Stanley” was noted by Dr. West, to a friend. However, he died.
Why does Mr. Bigot deny he is a racist, it is quite clear that he is a racist, a bigot, a pawn of some right wing hate program, and a liar.
Next he will tells us “my best friend is black” when his best friend is a white redneck with mud on his face. so don’t engage him, I won’t any more, I don’t like liars, he is now a non entity to me.
I hope you keep to your word and not engage me again. In true liberal fashion, you cry like a girl after a good ass kicking. What a waste of good air you are.
I hope to meet you someday.
As I mentioned before, I knew this for a long time, I tried to get my daughter’s long form some time back (born in same hospital as Obama but in 1965), like Obama, I can’t get what they don’t supply. My daughter’s race is listed as white(father) and Japanese (mother). Basically the birth certificate issue is over. Birthers need to find something else and I’m sure they will, they love to lose.
That settles it, then. Richy says its over, so ITS OVER!
Pretty pathetic that a simple mistake is somehow seen as evidence. Desperate times I guess
Heavy: you claimed to have written four books. What are the ISBN, and their titles?
The birthers have indeed been counted out, but are too punch drunk to know it.
For those unfamiliar with Hawaii, Queen Kapiolani founded 2 Hospitals, Queen Kapiolini Hospital was a major Maternity Hospital, it was started as the Kapiolani Materity Home, Queen Kapiolani’s other Hospital , Queens Medical center, was not primarily a Maternity hospital, it currently does have a small Maternity ward, though not as large as Queeen Kapiloni. As both were founded by Queen Kapiolani , people often confused the two. When you mentioned the Queens Hospital, which one are you referring to as both are often called the Queens Hospital. If it’s Materity, it’s probably Queen Kapiolani Maternity Home, the name it went by in the 60’s.(now Queen Kapiolant Medical Center). It’s where my daughter was born. The issue of which hospital he was born in is mute (a non issue), especially to those from Hawaii (like me)
the first book title is “How to Lie to Liberals”
My oldest son was born at Chicago Lying in Hospital, which was the maternity hospital at the University of Chicago. Same type of confusion as one was a part of the other. Although his BC says Chicago Lying In Hospital (which on longer exists) we always say U. of Chicago.
Actually though both hospitals are often called “Queen’s Hospital”
1. Maternity Hospital started by Queen Kapiolani
2. Medical Center started by Queen Emma.
As a side note, Queen Emma hated Queen Kapiolani, I said both Hospitals were started by Queen Kapiolanai to see if our birther friends would catch that, to see if they were capable of research, to see if they would dispute me, guess not!. In any event, these two Hospitals are often confused. If looking for Queens Hospital either may come up, so some made a mistake. However Obama and his family never varied in stating where he was born, Queen Kapiolani. Birthers trying to use a simple mistake to bolster their ignorant story, that’s normal for idiots grasping at straws. Yes, the birth certificate issue is over.
the second book title is “How to hide your Bigotry in 3 easy lessons”
Here is an interesting link on how to obtain a Hawaiian birth certificate for your baby, even though he/she may have been born out of state !!
So which hospital in Honolulu was Obama born in? Or do we know?
“So which hospital in Honolulu was Obama born in? Or do we know?”
Queen Kapiolani, Honolulu Hawaii
as for your link, that is a 1982 statue, Obama was born in 1961 in Hawaii, so that is wrong for Obama on two counts. Why do Birthers keep bringing up debunked points, that is disingenuous. (i.e. unethical)
see the date [L 1982, c 182, §1]
Since obama’s colb shows him born on us soil and since the provision became law in 1892. I’d say that it makes for a fancifull story. I am surprised people still repeat this myth shamelessly.
correction “in 1982”, that’s OK, a little typo.
The law you’re referring to regarding out of state babies didn’t come into existence until 1981.
The third book is titled, “How I Doubled for Mel Gibson in the movie Conspiracy Theory.
Even if that law were in effect at the time of Obama’s birth, it would not explain how an out-of-state birth would be listed as occurring in Honolulu.
I’d also point out that it is a red herring argument: it is irrelevant which of 2 Hawaii hospitals Obama was born in.
Birthers use this argument as some sort of rationale for needing to see the underlying “long form” birth certificate — but if it were demonstrated that Obama was born in Queens rather than Kapiolani, it wouldn’t have any impact on his citizenship.
It is important to keep in mind that Maya Soetoro-Ng did not say that Obama was born at Queens hospital. A child writing for a school newspaper made that mistake in an article which also included an interview with Maya. Maya herself is not quoted as saying which hospital–which she of her own knowledge (not having been born at the time) could not know.
Yes, we know. It was Kapi’Olani. The law you cited wasn’t passed until 1982, and so couldn’t apply to a birth registered in 1961.
Details are important.
I also may add that Obama said he was born in Queen Kapiolani but, his step-sister says he was born in a different hospital. Why is that?
No she did not, scroll back a few posts and you will see what Dr, C said:
“It is important to keep in mind that Maya Soetoro-Ng did not say that Obama was born at Queens hospital. A child writing for a school newspaper made that mistake in an article which also included an interview with Maya. Maya herself is not quoted as saying which hospital–which she of her own knowledge (not having been born at the time) could not know.
You are repeating a Birther rumor and it is not true. Catch up will ya! Why do Birthers lie?
That’s a pure lie. The article in which the claim was made never stated that Obama’s sister had placed Obama’s birth in the wrong hospital.
Why are these myths still being spread? Desperation is an ugly creature. Forced to spread lies by one’s inability to check facts is not much better
between jtx the liar, heavy the bigot and truth the “I heard it on the radio” guy there is a lot of misinformation and lies. On some of it they lie, on some they are lied to. Far righties are similar to “liars for Jesus” evangelicals; it’s OK to lie if it serves the cause. Though often corrected, they repeat the same drivel and poor little vick’s brain falls for it. That’s the way it is in Birtherland.
“Far righties are similar to “liars for Jesus” evangelicals”
Of course, they both believe the ends justifies the means. They hate Obama so much, it doesn’t matter to them what they do.
I would also like to add that since Snopes made the mistake of Queens Hospital, the birthers are going to use it to try to rake in more money.
It is because you are mistaken when you say his half-sister said such a thing.
Based on Heavy’s writing style, I would think his books are very short.
By the way, here’s a link to the school paper where the error appeared.
This is from Berg’s case.
Anatomy of a false rumor.
Funny thing. Dr. Jerome Corsi wrote: “In a November 2004 interview with the Rainbow Newsletter, Maya told reporters her half-brother Sen. Barack Obama was born on Aug. 4, 1961, at Queens Medical Center in Honolulu; then in February 2008, Maya told reporters for the Honolulu Star-Bulletin that Obama was at the Kapiolani Medical Center for Women and Children.”
Well, the newsletter is not the Rainbow. It is “The Rainbow Edition,” published by he students at Education Laboratory School in Hawaii. Attorney Phil Berg posted it online as part of his frivolous lawsuit. Please read pages 2 and 15: http://www.radiodujour.com/people/berg_philip/pdf/057_2%20Exhibit%20Charter%20Schools%20Rainbow%20Edition%20Newsletter.pdf
The article did not say that Maya Soetoro said that Obama was born at Queens. It is the writer of the article who began by saying that Obama was born at Queens Medical Center. The quotations by Maya Soetoro say nothing of the sort in the article. So there is no first hand evidence of the persistent internet rumor.
The hospital of birth issue is not heating up. It is getting colder by the minute.
Where do they get this stuff??
Civis naturaliter natus says:
July 9, 2009 at 12:47 am
In Minor Vs. Happert, the Supreme Court answers: a NBC is one born on US soil to 2 US citizen parents. In the Elg case it reaffirms this. In the Wong vs. Ark case it uses a new definition of “native born citizen” which is to be a class which encompasses more than just NBCs. In the Schieder case in 1964 it uses NBC as a subset of “native” following the precedent of the Wong case. It also says in the 1964 case that Congress has no authority to expand or restrict the rights of any class of citizen, but that is what they did on Jan 8, 2009, when then accorded the rights of a NBC to a native citizen (assuming O was born in Hawaii). Therefore that act is unconstitutional and he is ineligible. That this conclusion is SCOTUS supported. Whereas the contrary thesis, has no SCOTUS support.
The bigot troll was so happy give us a link to the “which hospital story” (But Snopes is not alone in asserting Obama was born at a hospital other than the one he personally claims”.) Then they quote the article Dr, C pointed to. What ecstatic proof the bigot points us to, must have some great meaning. It seems that he not only is a bigot, but an idiot as well. Well we know what hospital the bigot was born in, “Mental Hospital”!
Civis naturaliter natus reads a lot of cases, and is (like Donofrio) very good at cherry picking them. Like most birfers, this poster tends to downplay the significance of Wong Ark Kim.
Dr. C. has written about Minor. Elg does not “reaffirm” that two citizens parents are required (an argument Apuzzo used to make). And Schneider is discussing naturalized citizens, and selectively reading dicta.
My personal favorite is when this poster cites the concurring opinion of The Venus to divine Chief Justice Marshall’s thoughts on de Vattel. (And Marshall, while one of the most important jurists to serve, did not help write the U.S. Constitution; he helped in securing its ratification.)
Thanks, doc. How many books have you written?
As I said before, hon, I would NEVER let you freaks know who I am.
I think the fourth is “How To Puff Up Your Resume'”
Like Superman, Heavy must conceal his identity lest his enemies strike at his loved ones.
As the author of several thousand books, the winner of Nobel prizes in all seven fields in which they are awarded and the holder of several million patents, I can completely understand Heavy’s need to guard his true identity.
You people just don;t understand what Heavy is saying.
In 1961, even though America was on the track to damnation, having elected a filthy Papist as President, the mere thought of a white woman debasing herself by fornicating with an accursed son of Ham was so obscene, so revolting that anyone who was confronting with the revolting evidence of such a crime against nature would have been so horrified and traumatised that they would have needed years of psychiatric counselling.
Even in the mongrelised, ethnically impure city of Honolulu there woudld have been thousands of orginary decent americans willing ot take to the streeets to demand trhe death of the race traitor and her filthy demon-spawn.
Where are the newspaper reports of the doctors and nurses who resigned rather than participate in the genocide of the Aryan Volk?
That’s all Heavy is asked.
How dare you agents of the Niggwer/Jew/Queer axis attack him for such reasonable questions.
My publishing resume consists of one article in the Journal of Undergraduate Mathematics. Oh, and there is this web site.
Misinformation like this is troublesome in that it took a few lines to spin it, and would take a dozen paragraphs to unravel it. This is one of the points that Foggy made on The Land of the Obots show last Tuesday, and why he is working on updating the Obama Fringe WIKI as a repository of that dozen paragraphs to which someone might be referred for the unraveling.
It is a form of burden shifting.
For example, Phil at tRSoL is presently fond of arguing that no one has disproven Polarik’s claim that he’s an expert. Totally beside the point: No court (or othe government agency) will accept his opinion until Polarik proves he’s an expert. Self-appointed expertise may be impressive on the Internet, but it will never be able to advance these claims in the real world.
Yep, and he’s continually making an appeal to authority, but when we ask him to prove the authority, he tells us, “Can you prove that he doesn’t hold those degress?”
It’s rather amusing…
I’ve been arguing over there.
“appeal to authority”
that’s a wing nut character trait as exemplfied by our wing nut trolls, aids their delusions.
How can one prove the credentials of a cartoon? Actually, I think that his “expertise” has been pretty well smashed to bits in two articles:
As long as we are on the subject, here is a pdf book of my photographs:
Heavy, where is yours?
Misha, hon, nice try. I enjoyed the photos. Very well done. Is that NBC at the diner?
Nope, I am on page 28….
Phil’s common resort is, “Why won’t they sign a declaration to that effect”? (I.e., say it under penalty of perjury.)
Again, totally besides the point: If “Dr.” “Polarik” won’t sign a declaration (hint: you can’t anonymously sign declarations), then the debunkers don’t need to sign one either.
I’m on page 29 holding my first book!
You want proof that Polarik doesn’t have a PhD? The argument goes like this:
In order to get a PhD, one must be able to read and write.
Polarik can only sign his name with a mark, proving he cannot write.
Therefore, Polarik doesn’t have a PhD.
That’s Polarik’s affidavit from Keyes v Lingle.
I know exactly what Heavy et al is angling at.
Wow…That was an interesting screed…What do you really think? Ian is one of those computer warriors, says a lot behind the anonimity of a keyboard. Either way it does not change the fact that the diversity of the city of Honolulu would not make an interracial birth that uncommon. Especially since Honolulu was also a very tolerant city. So nothing would have been strange about his birth.
“Wow…That was an interesting screed…What do you really think? Ian is one of those computer warriors, says a lot behind the anonimity of a keyboard.”
No, I think Ian put it very well what Heavy et al would like to say, but couches it softly.
Heavy: “But a black baby born to a white woman in 1961 was a RARE event no matter where it occurred, especially in such a small community. We are not talking about NYC.”
Yeah, I’m from NY. So anyone outside of the city would be shocked into remembering it almost 50 years later. As richCares said, inter-marriage in Hawaii was common before it was common in NY. Heavy et all are operating on the principal of ‘oh, I remember her – she had a black husband or boyfriend.’ And that this is not happening, Heavy et al are claiming he wasn’t born there, it was SO unusual.
As I said, j’accuse.
Heavy is also making the mistake of assuming that just because the press has not reported on any public statements or interviews, that no one “remembers”. If the youngest person on the hospital staff in 1961 was age 25, that person would now be 73 years old. Barack Obama did not come to national prominence until 2004 –when a youngish nurse or other hospital staffer would be in their mid-60s. Even if one of those staffers had a specific recollection of attending at the birth of a particular black infant to a white mother, it is unlikely that so many years down the line they be able to pinpoint the exact month or year- so it is unlikely that they could be sure that it was baby Obama. So what would the point be of making a public statement?
And under what law would that birth certificate have “Honolulu” under the city of birth?
So, Obama and his half-sister are confused about which hospital Obama was born in. And Obama was listed as Barry Soetoro at one time in his school registration records, yet Obama swore on his law license application he has not used any other names.
Yeah! God is great. Beer is good. And birthers are crazy.
No, there has never been any confusion on the part of President Obama and Maya as to which hospital. Another birther myth. (The confusion was on the part of some child writing an article for a school paper that never quotes Maya mentioning a hospital). This like all the other birther “evidence” is misrepresented. Further proof that the birther movement is not about truth, or the constitution, but about smearing the President.
Obama never swore on his law license that he had not used any other names. Another birther myth. (The bar application was asking if he had practiced law under any other names – this is what the instructions for the question say.) This like all the other birther “evidence” is misrepresented. Further proof that the birther movement is not about truth, or the constitution, but about smearing the President.
I posted this on GW Law Prof. Jonathan Turley’s site on June 24, 2009 at 12:47 pm
FFLEO asked BVM: “Since credentials matter, can you confirm that Mr. Polarik is a Ph.D. and in what academic specialty? You tout the “doctors and lawyers” who support you points, but their curricula vitae are somewhat difficult to confirm.”
BVM did not dignify the question with a reply.
Here is the answer: Polarik is not at Ph.D, not a Doctor, and not even a real person. He is a pseudonym, an alias, a fictional character. He signed a court affidavit with twelve X’s. Twelve! XXXXXXXXXXXX. So help me! You can’t make this stuff up (YCMTSU):
QUOTE I read that it had been proven that Obama’s so-called birth certificate was a fake.
A couple of bloggers who wouldn’t even give their real names (TechDude and Ron Polarik) claimed this was true, but they faked their analysis just like they faked their names and credentials. UNQUOTE
I think Dr. X is Superman’s the mad scientist nemesis, Luthor. After all, Obama admitted at the Al Smith dinner last year that he was in fact an alien, born on the planet Krypton and sent to Earth by his father Jor-el to save mankind.
“but about smearing the President”
Exactly. Just like the ad in the Washington Times. Since when does a civil suit need to be bolstered by an advertorial?
Ian mimicked their mentality perfectly.
“After all, Obama admitted at the Al Smith dinner last year that he was in fact an alien, born on the planet Krypton and sent to Earth by his father Jor-el to save mankind.”
Not to argue with you, but I think Obama is actually from Mars, not Krypton. You should check your facts before making such an accusation. And I think the dinner was in honor of Vonnegut, because some people have placed Obama from Tralfamadore.
Heavy, Sven and jtx who post here can confirm Obama is an alien from Mars, not Tralfamadore. I know Heavy and Sven are actively looking for Obama’s Martian birth certificate.
“Wow…That was an interesting screed…What do you really think? Ian is one of those computer warriors, says a lot behind the anonimity of a keyboard.”
yes I hide behind the anonimity of “Ian Gould” of 414 Bennetts Road, Norman Park Queensland Australia. e-mail: firstname.lastname@example.org Ph. +617 3899 0537
Whereas you have the courage to use the name that your parents, Mr & Mrs. Lion gave you.
No matter how often you correct sven or debunk the talking points he refers to, he comes back with same crap. He must have a learning disability, either that or he’s a liar.
The “which hospital” story is still a big issue over at RSOL. If you tell them that Obama never said “Queens Medical Center (the wrong hospital) and Maya didn’t state where he was born, they come back with links to news stories saying Queen’s medical Center. So news stories getting it wrong mean that Obama is confused, that is really dumb. They have no idea of Queen Kapiolani or Queen Emma or reality.
this story is no hat post, so why do they hang there hat on it.
You folks have some serious emotional issues. Ian, you’re in foreigner NO shin in the game. Who cares what you think?
Misha, hon, you take some nice pictures. Other than that, you serve noe useful purpose.
Blacky, I don’t agree with your politics, but I think you have Ian’s number. He’s a limpwristed lib who lobs insults from 7,000 miles away.
Hey, I am just reporting what he said:
“Contrary to the rumors you have heard, I was not born in a manger.
“I was actually born on Krypton and sent here by my father Jorel to save the Planet Earth.
“Many of you — many of you know that I got my name, Barack, from my father. What you may not know is Barack is actually Swahili for “That One.”
“And I got my middle name from somebody who obviously didn’t think I’d ever run for president.”
Straight from the Messiah’s mouth.
Signed, Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
Vonnegut to American Atheists: “Isaac Asimov [deceased President of atheist association] is up in heaven.”
America to Kurt Vonnegut after his passing: “Kurt Vonnegut is up in heaven.”
So it goes.
my daughter was born at Queen Kapiolani in 1965, my sister in law went to visit her new niece, the cab driver took her to Queens Medical Center, wrong Hospital (she said “take me to Queens Hospital”)
There are 2 Queens Hospitals and Birthers invent a conspiracy. go sven, go!
The truth never gets old. Doc, you’re starting to slip. Better recheck those “Facts”.
Very well said, richCare. I am old enough to rememember vividly the southern racist Members of Congress who openly objected to Hawaiian statehood in 1959 because of its racial composition. They delayed statehood for Hawaii, and white Alaska was admitted a year earlier than Hawaii.
“I know Heavy and Sven are actively looking for Obama’s Martian birth certificate.”
Unfortunately Martian officials decline to state whether or not Obama is in fact a natural born citizen of Mars.
As one would expect of a messiah, Obama’s power to seal records is universal, perhaps even intergalactic.
So have I…And when he cannot rebut something he has no comment or in the case of Polarik defends him by asking us to prove that he is not an expert.
The new article is that the hospital has taken down the letter President Obama sent in regards to the anniversary. Of course since he is sourcing WND, I am not sure how true this is…
Ian, I apologize. I did not realzie that your comment was tongue in cheek. I am sorry. I see from the other comments what you were attempting to do. Being African American I at first took offense to it and was shocked so I responded that way. Again I realize now that I misunderstood.
the video of Congressman Neil Abercrombie reading Obama’s letter is on U-Tube video on Hospital site, the letter itself is in display case at hospital entrance:
Abercrombie reading Obama letter is about 1.5 min into the U-Tube
Birthers can create a conspiracy in an eye blink, as can any idiot!
in the case of Polarik defends him by asking us to prove that he is not an expert.
Phil is so deep in the echo chamber that if you state the obvious (i.e., there’s no independent evidence that “Dr.” “Polarik” has any kind of degree), he dodges with something like “well, there’s no evidence indicating when Obama requested the COLB from Hawaii either.” Which is totally irrelevant and redundant: The COLB’s seal and signature are self-authenticating, and answer that question (i.e., around June 6, 2007).
Phil’s latest obsession is there’s no proof that Obama sent a letter to Kapi’olani Medical Center. (There’s just footage of Hawaii’s U.S. Representative reading something which read just like a letter.)
Phil is seriously high:
Frankly, I see the smear tactics being used against Dr. Polarik as attempting to create a scenario whereby people inherently distrust him, despite the fact that he has produced material that can be independently verified and has actually gone on record via affidavit in at least one eligibility lawsuit where he would have been subject to cross-examination.
Pointing out that there’s no independent verfication of his self-claim expertise is not a smear tactic. Pointing out that “Polarik” has made some rather out-there claims is also not a smear, but further demonstrates how incredible he is.
Also, “Pokarik” has not “gone on the record.” In a suit that was dismissed on procedural grounds, his “anonymous” declaration was included. The court in no way relied upon it (as it was a procedural dismissal), and if had gotten to the stage where would have been used, it would have drawn an obvious objection, as you can’t file anonymous declarations.
As we learned from Taitz and these “grand juries,” there’s a world a difference between just throwing paper at a court, and properly filing it and having used to further your position.
And, as noted by the doctor, “Polarik”‘s “work” has been debunked; no one has “verified” it all.
“Misha, hon, you take some nice pictures. Other than that, you serve noe useful purpose.”
You’re not doing badly, yourself.
“…Ian’s number. He’s a limpwristed lib who lobs insults from 7,000 miles away.”
And you are an armchair thug. Ian and I are not hiding behind a screen ID; Truth gave his actual name. You claim four books. I repeat: ISBN please.
BTW, speaking of Oz, Quantas is the safest airline in the world.
I left the following message for Phil:
Phil said: “…Dr. Polarik …has actually gone on record via affidavit in at least one eligibility lawsuit where he would have been subject to cross-examination.”
I hate to burst your bubble, but this is as much a myth as his PhD.
I repeat. NOT ON YOUR LIFE, hon! I will never let you sick people know who I am. Your taking the side of a foreigner against an American is a great example of why liberals cannot be trusted with ANYTHING. Liberals will do anything to damage this country rather than defend it.
He wasn’t looking at that lady. He was looking for the “Cigar” he dropped.
“a great example of why liberals cannot be trusted with ANYTHING. Liberals will do anything to damage this country rather than defend it.”
Kennedy was bad? Johnson was weak on defense? How accurate was the domino theory?
You should read more before posting.
Did you even watch the video on the link you posted that debunks this whole tempest over nothing?
What is so funny is that “Polarik”‘s declaration (using his real name) could have been filed under seal (assuming the court bought the claim that his life was in danger if he identity was revealed).
Of course, if that did happen, the then Phil couldn’t make any claims about the declaration being used in a lawsuit, as it would be under seal and thus not verifiable to the public. (Or, more likely, the judge would not have allowed the declaration to be filed under seal.)
Misha, hon, if you are going to site examples, please know what you are saying.
Were JFK or LBJ liberals? HARDLY! They were dems, but they were NOT liberals. Pay attention.
Lighten up, Bob-O.
I don’t recheck facts after I already checked them without a reason. Do you have a reason (e.g. documentation) that I should check something?
Make a declarative sentence (a prolific author would know how to do that) then give a reputable source, and if that contradicts what I’ve said, I will investigate.
The letter is still published on their web site here. Look on Page 8.
And the video of them reading it is still here.
It’s starting to happen.
And Human Events magazine is… (besides an obvious far-right publication)?
I think it fair to say that LBJ was a flaming liberal, at least on social issues, and particularly so for his time.
…An interesting magazine that has published an article which echoes some of the things I have said about this issue. Mainly that it is just getting traction in mainsrteam America and will not go away. They actually sight some traditionally liberal sources.
It may be “main stream” for conservatives, but whoever wrote that article is a liar and an idiot. Note that I have not been able to independently verify that the article in question ever appeared in Human Events magazine.
Liar? Idiot? Really? What is your proof?
“Misha, hon, if you are going to site examples, please know what you are saying.”
Please learn basic grammar. It should be “cite.” Which confirms you are semi-literate.
“Were JFK or LBJ liberals? HARDLY! They were dems, but they were NOT liberals. Pay attention.”
A Liberal Definition by John F. Kennedy: Acceptance Speech of the New York
Liberal Party Nomination: http://www.liberalparty.org/JFKLPAcceptance.html
“Lyndon Johnson could probably be safely called a “radical” in most places, a “liberal” in North America and a “socialist” in Europe… Some people thought he was a conservative early in his career, but the evidence rarely bore this out.”
Come on! You need to try just a bit harder than that. Those words were valid 45 years ago. Neither man would be considered a liberal today. Not by a long shot. Get with the program.
Wow. That verbiage has been passed around the Internet numerous times over the past few months. Yet no indication it was ever in “Human Events.”
It does looks much like this piece, which appears on the site for the Western Journalism Center (which is owned (in part) by Farah and owns (in part) WND).
You know, there are some things that just set off warning bells for me. That web page from redroom.com that Heavy posted is one of them. It includes a text that it says is from a conservative print publication called Human Events magazine. But:
1. It doesn’t say what issue date of the magazine it came from (so you can’t check it)
2. It doesn’t say who the author of the article is (so you can’t check it).
3. It doesn’t say what the Title of the article is (so you can’t check it).
4. There is no URL reference (so you can’t check it).
5. The text of the article doesn’t appear to exist anywhere else on the Internet attributed to Human Events magazine (although I found it once unattributed on a Fox News local station blog in Orlando).
If I had to guess, I would say that the article is a fake. I have emailed Human Events magazine to check.
“They actually sight some traditionally liberal sources.”
I’ll give you this one: it is “cite.” Look it up on google, if you don’t believe me. And you call me worthless. Don’t look in the mirror, then.
Asshole Heavy still can’t spell. He doesn’t know basic grammar. Typical birther: sub-intellect, who only can write insults in defense.
Keep writing this stuff, and show the world what birthers are really like: semi-literate kooks.
although I found it once unattributed on a Fox News local station blog in Orlando
The Pat Boone bit can also be found here (sorta).
I’ll wait a little while to see how this settles out before I go on a rant about the credulity of birthers and the essential dishonesty of those hawking this fraud.
Doc the Red Room article states the DDHL web site says ” “In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth…”
Here is a link to DDHL, go find the where is says this:
hint, you can’t find it, as it doesn’t say this, that’s a lie, the DDHL web site never said that, DDHL’s policy changed long before the internet started. Years ago, before Hawaii computerized it’s records, it may have said that, not now, hasn’t for a long time.
Actually the entire Red Room article is Total BS.
Though it says “Hawaii maintains programs to encourage property ownership for native Hawaiians. “, Obama does not claim to be nor is he a native Hawaiian. Nothing on the DDHL web site applies to Obama.” So whole REd Room issue is mute.
though the A___hole word applies, you forgot to add he’s a racist bigot.
It is fake. Everyone is missing the play on words: redroom.com
I thought immediately of “The Shining”: redrum. That gives it away.
I am starting to get really annoyed with this “his sister gave a different hospital name”!!!
She was not even born yet. How could she POSSIBLY know for a fact where her older brother was born, when she not even alive herself?
In addition to my photography book, I have been picked up by Congressional Quarterly: http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=hsnews-000002903600
I’m at the bottom under “The Empire State.”
Heavy cannot provide an ISBN, because his oeuvre consists of writing restaurant menus.
Very often the Bigot gives links to phony news bytes, when shown they are false or outright lies he points us to another link of phoniness. He gladly accepts phony info and when shown they are false (like the Red Room story) instead of acknowledgement he finds another phony story. As he doesn’t seem to learn from this, he most certainly has a learning disability or hates Obama so much he will gladly accept poop.
“like the Red Room story”
Remember, Red Room is a play on redrum. So it’s a fake – a trick for those who don’t catch it.
Steven King would be pleased. “The Shining” really has quite an effect.
Look around you.
I say idiot and liar because I know the birther nonsense in the article is nonsense. The “proof” is in a hundred articles here. But it appears that the big lie is that the story never appeared in Human Events magazine in the first place. So things are not turning your way, and birtherism is not becoming mainstream.
You know Heavy, it’s not all that hard to get fooled and I’m not going to take some glee that I saw it right off and you didn’t. I’ve been tricked by birther fraud too. I learned from my mistakes. The question is whether you will learn from yours.
“Ian, you’re in foreigner NO shin in the game. Who cares what you think?”
You’re incapable of constructing basic sentences without multiple errors like “no shin in the game” and “in foreigner” so who cares what you think?
Referring to Human Events Magazine is an appeal to authority, something wing nuts do to get credence, which is similar to claims of advanced degrees or “I wrote 4 books”. It is usually effective among wing nuts as they never check sources, You see this technique in constant use among wing nut bloggers and Birthers, as well as just made up stuff. All they have to do is spout a few buzz words to hook the ignorant, “the messiah”, “the one”, “you libs” and wing nuts melt. They have implanted nose rings so it is easy to lead them around, Look how easily they manipulate heavy.
Ron Polarik’s PhD is my prime example.
heavy queries “Liar? Idiot? Really? What is your proof?”
heavy has made similar queries in the past, when corrected (debunked) he does 1 of 2 things
1. hurls insults then slithers back into the woodwork only to return on another thread with another phony link.
2. slithers back into the woodwork only to return on another thread with another phony link.
in either case he has earned the name “cockroach”, want to see the cockroach slither back into the woodwork, shine a light on it, there goes heavy. I doubt he will return to answer this issue, he’s in the woodwork.
Wow, Heavy asking for proof. That has never stopped him before…
Yes, well excuuuuuse me mis grammar queen. I stand corrected. It’s sometimes hard to think while posting on this blog because I am laughing so hard at you fools!
Doc to heavy “The question is whether you will learn from yours.” The answer is no!
heavy says “NOTHING was “Shown” except a bunch of moaning…”
Why don’t they just make an exception for the POTUS and supply the long form? They should have a copy of the original certificate that got written up the day he was born.
The following is loosely informed speculation:
If push comes to shove, they might well cough up a photocopy of the long form, certainly if they got a valid subpoena (and still had the form). I’m thinking that the paper form is probably long gone, but it might still exist as an image, either on microfilm/fiche or in digital form. I’ve been in some state vaults and they are huge affairs, fancy access controls and fire suppression systems. I can only imagine that they are very expensive to maintain, and expensive to use (compared to an optical or computer system). Granted, Hawaii is not the most populous state in the union, but keeping the paper must still cost them a lot. Also it’s a lot harder to implement access controls with a paper system.
Why should they, joe?
The COLB meets every requirement for the Federal Government to prove your place of birth. That’s the thing you don’t seem to understand.
The State of Hawaii have already said that it’s “a valid Hawaii State Birth Certificate”.
They’ve already said that the Birth Certificate wouldn’t say “Honolulu” under the place of birth if he was actually born in Kenya.
They’ve said that the birth certificate is enough to prove your citizenship to any federal agency.
So, my question to you is why are you stating that proving your place of birth to the Federal Government fundamentally different than proving your place of birth to the Federal Government?
Why don’t they just make an exception for the POTUS and supply the long form?
Who is “they”? Under what authority would “they” do so?
I presume that “they” is the Hawaii Department of Health. I believe that they have the authority to set the regulations as to what kinds of forms they issue. If, for example, Barack Obama asked for a long form or if a lawful subpoena were issued, then it’s maybe possible the state might provide a copy of it. My personal reading of the Hawaiian law says that if the long form exists, then Barack Obama is entitled to a copy. But it may well not exist.