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Orly files yet another Kenyan Birth Certificate in Barnett case (Update 4)

Keyes v Obama

Keyes v Obama

On Friday (September 4, 2009), two things happened in the Barnett v Obama case in the Federal District Court for the Central District of California, Southern Division. [This is the case formerly known as Keyes v Obama.] First Orly Taitz filed the Lucas Smith affidavit with what he claims is an attached Kenyan Birth Certificate for Barack Obama, and second the government moved to dismiss the case.

Now we have a “still” picture of the alleged birth certificate in addition to the swooping and wobbling video that appeared on YouTube.

Fake birth certificate

We also have what appears for all intents and purposes to be an affidavit from Smith swearing that he got this in Kenya from the hospital in Mombasa. The affidavit is here and its signature page is here. I would appreciate a comment from one of the visiting lawyers as to whether this affidavit is legal as to form, and whether the signer would be guilty of perjury should it prove to be false. I note that there is no witness to the signature. In the past no one providing this kind of evidence has signed their real name except private detective Jorge Baro who signed his statement, although it was not notarized or witnessed.

My impressions of the document

The first question to ask is “what are we looking at”? There are two kinds of birth certificates: hospital-issued souvenirs (without legal significance) and government-issued certified copies (with legal standing). The document we’re discussing here seems to be a cross between the two. On the one hand it purports to be issued by the hospital, signed by a hospital-titled person, and lacks legal attributes such as the parent’s signature and adds a baby footprint. On the other hand it purports to be a legal document, having a certificate number, a seal, and to have been “issued” this year, attributes of a “certified copy.” But a certified copy of a souvenir makes no sense, and the document presented seems neither fish nor fowl. There are also internal objections.

  1. I find it utterly amazing that the date and time of birth (August 4, 1961 7:24 PM) is identical between the Kenyan birth certificate and the Hawaiian birth certificate. Clearly one was copied from the other. Copying Hawaiian to make Kenyan is trivially easy, since the Hawaiian exemplar has been available for a year. For the copying to have gone the other way, a nearly impossible chain of time-critical events would have to have happened.Hawaiian law in 1961 required either the attendant to the birth or the parent to report the registration: § 57-8. Compulsory registration of births. Within the time prescribed by the board, a certificate of every birth shall be filed with the local registrar of the district in which the birth occurred, by the physician, midwife or other legally authorized person in attendance at the birth; or if not so attended, by one of the parents. [R. L. 1945, s. 3100.09; add. L. 1949, c. 327, s. 9.] This means that one of the Obama parents would have to have traveled from Mombasa to Honolulu, arriving at the latest on August 8. There is simply no way Ann Obama could have arrived back in Hawaii by August 8 given the fact that Mombasa had no international airport, the trip from Nairobi to Mombasa was an all-day affair, the air flights to Hawaii in 1961 would themselves have spanned 3 days, and she had just had a baby! The logistics of pulling that off strain credulity. This is especially impossible sounding given the usual story (pure fantasy) that the Kenyan birth was unplanned. If they were going to fake the birth in Hawaii, it would have been much easier to pick a later date, giving mother and baby time to get home, figure out that they wanted to commit fraud and then figure out how to do it. The way I see it, using the real dates of birth on the fake Kenyan certificate was a colossal blunder. [I am going to call it a fake because all other evidence shows Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.]
  2. The hospital administrator is wrong. In February of 19 2009, the date stamped on the Smith document and the month when Smith claims he visited Kenya,  the chief administrator of the hospital was Jennifer Othigo. We know that her tenure included February 19 of 2009 because of newspaper articles naming her as chief administrator on February 1, 2009 and February 26, 2009.  Maganga, the person listed as chief administrator on the Smith document did not assume that post until months later.
  3. The certificate bears the seal of the hospital. A seal signifies a certified copy. Generally hospitals don’t issue certified copies, jurisdictions do. The seal should be that of the government of Kenya (or the district), not the hospital.
  4. WorldNetDaily says they have a real Kenyan birth certificate from the time period, and this one doesn’t look the one they published. This is not a fatal error because the WND document is a real government-issued birth certificate, while the Lucas document would be closer to a forged hospital souvenir.
  5. I also find very suspicious that the signature has the pre-printed title “Supervisor of Obstetrics” when there are all sorts of conditions with someone else might sign the form. In pretty much any real form, the title of the signer is a blank to fill in. For example, an example from South Australia has a blank to fill in.
  6. Speaking of signatures, neither parent signed the certificate. Of course if this is only a hospital souvenir, then the parents would not have to sign, but why is is a souvenir sealed and signed to make it look like an official document. On a real birth registration form the person providing the information about father and mother (i.e. the father or mother) must sign the form.
  7. If a pregnant Ann Obama were going to Kenya in 1961, Mombasa is the last place she should have been delivering a baby. Mombasa is on the eastern coast, the airport was in Nairobi in the center of the country and the grandparents village was in the opposite direction from Mombasa on Kenya’s western border. Mombasa was a stupid mistake made early on (e.g. in the original complaint of Berg v Obama), and copied by true believers ever since. Of course Obama Sr.’s father was violently against the marriage and Obama Sr. already had a wife there, which begs the question of why to go to Africa in the first place in the middle of a civil war.
  8. The date format used throughout the document is mm/dd/yy. Kenya uses dd/yy/mm format. I actually found a university application requirements page that specifies that birth certificates are in dd/yy/mm format. (Smith claims that Kenya used both British and American date formats, but provides no reason to believe that this is true).
  9. Obama Sr’s birth date is only a year but Stanley Ann shows a full date of birth. Why is the the father’s full date of birth missing? The year was all that was on the Wikipedia last year, but we now know from immigration files that the day of birth was June 18, but this was not known publicly when the fake certificate surfaced. This is rather a smoking gun.

The only doubt here is whether Lucas Smith is looking at jail time. [It appears that since the document is not notarized, Smith can just deny that he ever signed it.]

On the other side the government has moved to dismiss the case. Here is the outline of the government’s argument:

1. This Court Lacks Subject Matter Jurisdiction Of This Action

A. Plaintiffs Lack Standing Herein

1. No Plaintiff Can Show The Required Concrete, Traceable Injury-in-Fact To Provide Standing Herein
2. Plaintiffs Cannot Satisfy The Redressability Requirement For Standing

B. This Case Presents Non-Justiciable Political Questions
C. This Court Lacks Subject Matter Jurisdiction Over Plaintiffs’ Quo Warranto Claims
D. This Court Does Not Have Subject Matter Jurisdiction Of This Action Under Either 42 U.S.C. § 1983, Or 42 U.S.C. § 1988

2. This Court Lacks Subject Matter Jurisdiction And Plaintiffs Fail To State A Claim For Relief In Re Their FOIA Claims
3. This Case Must Be Dismissed As To Secretary Hillary Rodham Clinton, And Secretary Robert M. Gates, For Lack of Subject Matter Jurisdiction, And Failure By Plaintiffs To State A Claim For Relief.
4. This Case Must Be Dismissed As To First Lady Michelle Obama And Vice President Joseph Biden Because Plaintiffs Have Failed To State Any Claim Whatever Against Them

I have read the government’s motion and while I am not a lawyer, it looks pretty sound. The same sort of argument worked in Berg v Obama (cited) and since the law hasn’t changed, should work equally well here.

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103 Responses to Orly files yet another Kenyan Birth Certificate in Barnett case (Update 4)

  1. avatar
    DL September 6, 2009 at 1:31 am #

    So … an official state-backed birth certificate is insufficient evidence but a photograph of a foreign certificate is irrefutable proof ? Got it. Makes a lot of sense … to an idiot.

  2. avatar
    richCares September 6, 2009 at 1:40 am #

    I am willing to bet 100.00 that the Lucas Smith signature is phony, no way he signed it. Plus how much did he pay for a BC that WND would have paid 25,000.00 to get (if real).

    so Orly is attemping to inject a fake BC as evidence, unbelievable, it will soon be smackdown time.

    Maybe Orly should file perjury charges against Dr. Chimoe Fukino, that would be so nice (would lead to Jail time for Orly)

  3. avatar
    misha September 6, 2009 at 2:27 am #

    Very simple to explain: Ann and Barack Sr. found an airline which took early delivery of a Boeing 707. Then, they took the train first class to Mombassa; the hospital, knowing she was American, made sure there was enough diesel for their generator.

    Once the baby was born, Barack Sr. went to the telegraph office there, and paid a substantial gift to wire Nairobi. Then, the telegraph office in Nairobi sent a cable to Ann’s parents in Honolulu. Having planned this in advance, Ann’s mother called both newspapers, pretending it was the hospital.

    Ann’s parents then went with their lawyer to the Bureau Of Vital Statistics, and pulled a Sun Yat Sen. When Ann and Barack Sr. decided it was time to go back to Hawaii, they found another 707. At Customs, they argued with the inspector that a baby did not need its own passport, and made such a fuss that they were let through. Barack Sr. pretended that he did not speak good English.

    They then called her parents from a pay phone, and made it home congratulating each other for pulling this off.

    Simple really, when you think about it.

  4. avatar
    Lupin September 6, 2009 at 4:12 am #

    On the one hand, this is riotously funny. (Misha’s post above is just superb satire.)

    On the other hand, this entire thing strikes me as deeply saddening, just as, say, Caligula appointing a horse to the Senate. This can’t end well for the country.

  5. avatar
    Mary Brown September 6, 2009 at 4:46 am #

    Is Orly using this certificate given to her by someone with a dubious reputation for the truth thinking that it would give her some kind of opening to go on her fishing expedition. This is silly. I am no lawyer but this preschool teacher would know better.

  6. avatar
    AXJ September 6, 2009 at 5:20 am #

    In a country of Laws the Law must be respected and Obama must be the first to resign. If he is a sane and intelligent person he must take responsibility for what he has done. This is a very grave matter and the future of this great country depends on the Law being executed by the Judges.

    Millions of Americans no have the hopes on the Honorable Judge presiding on September 8, 2009.

  7. avatar
    Welsh Dragon September 6, 2009 at 5:51 am #

    I wish these forgers would give us a bit more of a challenge.

    There are twelve items on this fake that I would not expect to see on a certificate from a UK & Colonial juristiction (formats differ but in fact the content is remarkably similar), there are another three which have at most a 50/50 chance of appearing and another one which is absent that should almost certainly be there.

    But here’s the rub none of these would be flaws from a US context – they would all be common on official state documents and/or the ‘souvenir’ birth certificates issued by hospitals.

    The conman is giving his marks what they expect to see.

  8. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 6, 2009 at 7:29 am #

    I fail to understand why you and others of your tribe would want to build up a sense of expectation for a routine hearing on September 8, where nothing much is scheduled to be decided.

    If the judge follows the law, the case will eventually dismissed, one in which Orly attempted to file not one but two different fake Kenyan birth certificates.

    I just hope the judge eventually imposes Rule 11 sanctions so that maybe the second fake birth certificate will get enough of a look see for Lucas Smith to get some jail time.

  9. avatar
    kimba September 6, 2009 at 8:05 am #

    To me that looks like Orly’s handwriting. Especially the L and the t in Smith.

    Do the birthers think that evidence is being presented and witnesses will be called Tuesday? I saw at one site someone calling for people to come to Santa Ana by the busload. Fascinating. New Reality Show: “Birthers in the OC”.

  10. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 6, 2009 at 8:59 am #

    Unless some money changed hands, there is simply no way Ann’s parents could have gotten baby Obama registered by August 8. There were no direct flights from Hawaii to Nairobi and Ann Obama simply could not have presented herself and the baby by August 8 (the date of Obama’s registration in Hawaii). No registrar (whose job it is to insure the legitimacy of registrations) is going to just make up a birth certificate based on some old woman coming in and making a claim. The first question the registrar would have asked is “where is the mother; why isn’t she here?” That would have started an “investigation” of sorts that would have spanned a few days and probably not ended until Ann Obama showed up. The newspapers are no problem; they derive from the health department registration. The difficulty is the timing on the registration.

  11. avatar
    HistorianDude September 6, 2009 at 9:27 am #

    Just one correction to the Good Doctor’s post. The identification of Coast Province Hospital in Mombasa as the place of Obama’s putative birth goes back over a year to Phil Berg.

    In his original complaint he included a long “Request for Admissions” that included:

    5. My mother gave birth to me in Mombosa, Kenya.

    …and…

    50. I was born in the Coast Province Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya

    These contentions appear to be close to the original source of this absurd and problematic of “detail” of the received Birther narrative.

  12. avatar
    Ian Gould September 6, 2009 at 9:38 am #

    Isn’t Mombasa on the other side of the International date line to Hawaii?

  13. avatar
    richCares September 6, 2009 at 11:06 am #

    The glow Birthers have for Sept 8 will be quickly forgotten. Remember this from Orly:
    ”Good news,
    Chief Justice John Roberts agreed to hear my case Lightfoot v Bowen, challenging eligibility for presidency of Barack Hussein Obama. He distributed the case to the full conference of the Supreme Court.

    Chief Justice Roberts is sending a message to them, telling them to Hold on, not so fast, there is value in this case,”
    Then case was dismissed!

    That was quickly forgotten as will Sept 8, you see Birthers have memories as long as their IQ.

  14. avatar
    sarina September 6, 2009 at 11:25 am #

    Amen!

  15. avatar
    misha September 6, 2009 at 11:35 am #

    “This can’t end well for the country.”

    That is exactly my concern. I fear for Obama’s safety. These people want mob rule. My wife, from China, said of the lawyers “They misuse their education.” Then she said “They’re all white, aren’t they?”

  16. avatar
    Bob September 6, 2009 at 11:46 am #

    Smith’s declaration is fine, as you can pretty much declare anything.

    Is it false? Who knows; maybe he did travel to Kenya and bribe someone for this document. Unless you prove it is false, there’ll likely be no perjury charges.

    The declaration, however, is insufficient to get the “birth certificate” admitted, as there’s insufficient foundation to its authenticity.

    It is also very doubtful that it is enough to get the judge to grant Taitz’s motion for a letter rotagory, as it smells of forgery.

    Taitz’s motion also asks for early discovery but hasn’t made the case why it is needed, especially since the government just moved to dismiss. The judge could very easily deny the motion without prejudice to being renewed after the government has answered the lawsuit (which’ll never happen because the court will grant the motion to dismiss).

    Can’t see the motion to dismiss.

    Really, really like the comment voting; it’ll go a long way to minimizing the disruption of certain serial commenters.

  17. avatar
    Rob in Denver September 6, 2009 at 12:08 pm #

    Is it just me or is the link for Keyes-Obama-55-3.pdf not working for everyone?

  18. avatar
    richCares September 6, 2009 at 12:41 pm #

    based on the comments of our lovable birthers, that is exactly what they expect, that’s why the letdown will be bigger. At what point will Orly’s minions say WTF.

  19. avatar
    Chris September 6, 2009 at 12:48 pm #

    I can’t download it either.

  20. avatar
    milspec September 6, 2009 at 2:16 pm #

    “The footprint is overly large, it seems to me, for a newborn. Further, it shows no detail, hence making it useless for identification purposes.”

    Just one point baby footprints are not usable for identification as soon as 30 days after birth. My expertise in this matter is I was QC manager for one of the last manufactures of baby foot printers. In the last 20 years it has gone from being an ID system to that of a “keepsake”

  21. avatar
    Expelliarmus September 6, 2009 at 3:42 pm #

    A note:
    Under 28 U.S.C. §1746, a declaration may be submitted under penalty of perjury without being notarized — but it is a “declaration” and NOT a “sworn affidavit”. The difference is that, without the notary, there is no way to know if the signature is genuine; if charged with perjury, Lucas Smith could disavow his signature.

    I understand from other internet sources that Smith has a criminal record; if this is true, there may be public records that bear his signature. (For example, if he signed papers in a court proceeding in connection with a plea agreement). So it would be relatively easy to determine whether or not the Smith signature is likely valid.

    As Bob noted, if Smith indeed obtained the certificate from a hospital administrator after paying a bribe, that does not in any way prove the validity of the certificate. So Smith could be telling the truth and the document could still be forged. (I doubt this, however, for a variety of reasons).

    Both Kenya and Zanzibar have laws on the books about maintenance of birth records, and such records would be maintained by the government office specified in the statutes, NOT by a hospital. Medical records such as birth records are unlikely to be kept by a hospital on a long-term basis, so it is extremely unlikely that any sort of hospital certificate could be obtained in 2009 for a birth that took place in 1961.

    I have seen what a real birth certificate issued in Kenya in 2009 looks like, as well as birth certificates that are somewhat older — and they don’t look at all like what Smith has produced. I don’t want to help the next forger to come along by pointing to links or images, but I will note that the Kenyan birth certificates I have seen are printed with both red and black ink on white paper, and they definitely do not have any foot prints.

    Finally, the Smith FKBC has one very glaring omission: the month & day of Obama’s father’s birth. This is a piece of information that cannot be ascertained from internet references, but that Barack Obama Sr. would almost certainly have known and been able to provide to authorities at the time of his son’s birth. The ONLY reason for that information to be omitted is that the forger was afraid of making a gross and easily exposed error on the fake certificate — assuming that the true date of birth of Obama Sr. might be available in papers that have not yet been released to the public but may well be available to the government, such as the records surrounding his student visa or school records at Univ. of Hawaii or Harvard.

  22. avatar
    dunstvangeet September 6, 2009 at 3:57 pm #

    Another Oddity I’ve noticed about the Birth Certificate.

    It states: “Residence of Mother” but does not state “Residence of Father”. That to me seems odd, that they’d ask for the residence of the mother, but not ask for the residence of the father.

    I could just be making too much of this, of course.

  23. avatar
    NBC September 6, 2009 at 3:59 pm #

    My comments on the Government’s Motion to Dismiss as well as hyperlinked formatted document can be found here

    Note that the date for the motion is October 5, 2009, not September 8, which is meant to deal with administrative issues such as failure to effect service, and controversies between Kreep and Orly.

    Expect nothing more on September 8, other than perhaps the judge rejecting the rogatory motion.

  24. avatar
    NBC September 6, 2009 at 4:01 pm #

    I forgot, the motion was already rejected, what will happen on Sept 8 is a hearing on the motion by the plaintiffs regarding the Judge Magistrate who made the ruling to reject the motion, because of errors in filing. How many errors are made in this case? Someone estimated around 2/3 of the filings were in error or related to correcting said error(s).

  25. avatar
    Expelliarmus September 6, 2009 at 4:25 pm #

    Actually, the main issue in front of the court on Tuesday ( Sept 8 ) is the status of Gary Kreep and his two clients.

  26. avatar
    nolu chan September 6, 2009 at 4:30 pm #

    Your links are incorrect and both provide the 6-page NOTICE OF FILING with the UNSIGNED version of the Smith DECLARATION at pages 4-5.

    Page 1 of the unsigned version does not pair up to Page 2 of the signed version. The last four lines on unsigned page 1 are the first four lines on signed page 2.

    Perhaps it is an innocent curiosity, but apparently page 1 of what was actually signed was not provided to the court.

  27. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 6, 2009 at 4:48 pm #

    It was a case-sensitivity problem. All should be fixed now.

  28. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 6, 2009 at 5:04 pm #

    OK. That is interesting. The grandmother tape appeared in Berg’s amended complaint. One may speculate that Ron McRae was following the lead in the original complaint when trying to steer the conversation with Sarah Obama in the direction of Mombasa (which she was totally unwilling to say).

    So Berg must have gotten this off the Internet, along with the Canadian birth certificate which was part of the original complaint (but not the amended one). I wrote two article searching for the origins of Obama being born in Africa:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/02/where-did-born-in-africa-start-part-1/
    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/02/where-did-born-in-africa-start-part-2/

  29. avatar
    Rickey September 6, 2009 at 11:19 pm #

    Finally, the Smith FKBC has one very glaring omission: the month & day of Obama’s father’s birth.

    The same thought occurred to me. It’s odd that it would have the full date of birth for Obama’s mother but only the year of birth for his father – odd except for the fact that Obama Sr.’s date of birth has never been published.

    Lucas Daniel Smith does indeed have a criminal record. He has been convicted of two Class D felonies and one “serious misdemeanor.”

    Name Lucas Daniel Smith
    Offender Number 1117239
    Sex M
    Birth Date 01/04/1980
    Age 29
    Location
    Offense
    County Of Commitment
    Commitment Date
    Duration
    TDD/SDD *
    * TDD = Tentative Discharge Date
    * SDD = Supervision Discharge Date

    Supervision Status Offense Class County of Commitment End Date
    Prison D Felony Linn 12/25/2002

    Supervision Status Offense Class County of Commitment End Date
    Probation D Felony Linn 08/18/2000

    Supervision Status Offense Class County of Commitment End Date
    Probation Serious Misdemeanor Linn 03/10/2000

    The information can be verified by going here and entering his name:

    http://www.doc.state.ia.us/OffenderInfo.asp

    Elsewhere it has been reported that Smith once offered to donate a kidney to a young man who was in need of a transplant. At the last minute Smith demanded to be paid for his kidney, and of course it is illegal to pay for transplant organs. When payment was refused, Smith withdrew his offer.

    http://blog.syracuse.com/news/2008/01/oswego_county_centerpiece_0116.html

    Another sterling witness for Orly. I wonder if Orly would be willing to produce Smith’s passport so we can see if he actually traveled to Kenya?

  30. avatar
    Bob Weber September 7, 2009 at 1:03 am #

    You forgot to mention that the Obamas personally chartered the 707 that took them back to Hawaii. Landed at the Mombasa airstrip to save time going back to Nairobi. (Ace pilot not bothered by short runway.)

    Also saved time returning by avoiding layovers on connecting flights.

  31. avatar
    Expelliarmus September 7, 2009 at 1:24 am #

    You can do a criminal record search here:
    http://www.iowacourts.state.ia.us

    It will take me awhile to catalog it — there is a VERY LONG list of criminal cases against Mr. Smith.

  32. avatar
    Expelliarmus September 7, 2009 at 3:31 am #

    Finished my search. The Lucas Daniel Smith with the date of birth indicated above, has multiple felony convictions for forgery and theft, as well as a history of being charged with escape and fugitive from justice (meaning he’s not too reliable about showing up for court).

    The felony record goes something like this:

    1998: Forgery

    February 2000: Multiple counts forgery

    May 2000: Theft – sentenced to state prison
    subsequently charged with escape from prison

    December 2000: convicted of multiple counts of theft; pending charges of forgery were dismissed

    August 2004: multiple counts of theft

    Nuff said. If you want more info, you know where to look it up.

  33. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 7, 2009 at 9:12 am #

    dunstvangeet: Another Oddity I’ve noticed about the Birth Certificate.It states: “Residence of Mother” but does not state “Residence of Father”.That to me seems odd, that they’d ask for the residence of the mother, but not ask for the residence of the father.I could just be making too much of this, of course.

    In birth documents I have worked with, the lack of symmetry between mother and father information is not unheard of. In fact, if you look at Hawaiian “long forms” they have exactly that same characteristic:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/sample-certificatelivebirth-hi-med2.jpg

    What is much more telling (one of several smoking guns) is that the full birth date of the mother is given, but only the birth year of the father. That’s what you can look up on the Wikipedia because the birth date of Obama Sr. is not publicly known (and the forger was afraid to guess).

    The fatal blow is that the document is not signed by the informant (the mother or father).

  34. avatar
    misha September 7, 2009 at 10:13 am #

    Yes, going from Hawaii to Kenya, the IDL is crossed.

  35. avatar
    Welsh Dragon September 7, 2009 at 10:33 am #

    “The fatal blow is that the document is not signed by the informant (the mother or father)”

    Oddly enough Doc that isn’t fatal. In the pre-IT British system the birth would literally be ‘registered’ – written in a register.A birth certificate would then be issued in which the official (registrar) certified what was contained in the register. The informant would sign the register but not the birth certificate itself.

  36. avatar
    Welsh Dragon September 7, 2009 at 10:50 am #

    Just to add – I have some reason to believe that the pre-independence Kenyan system might have been a little different but even if was there’s unlikely be an informant signature on the birth certificate itself.

  37. avatar
    sarina September 7, 2009 at 11:14 am #

    Expelliarmus

    Congratulations! great job!

  38. avatar
    aarrgghh September 7, 2009 at 11:25 am #

    doc said:

    the fatal blow is that the document is not signed by the informant (the mother or father).

    the fatal blow is that orly is pimping it. birfers are the kiss of death to any document’s credibility.

  39. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 7, 2009 at 12:03 pm #

    I understand, but what are we dealing with here? A fake hospital registration document or a fake birth certificate. And where is the registrar’s signature (I ask to no one in particular)?

  40. avatar
    Welsh Dragon September 7, 2009 at 12:32 pm #

    As you said yourself:

    “There are two kinds of birth certificates: hospital-issued souvenirs (without legal significance) and government-issued certified copies (with legal standing). The document we’re discussing here seems to be a cross between the two”

    Now the British had no tradition of hospital – issued souvenirs and hospitals were not involved in the civil registration process in any way.

    So we are taking about a fake of type of document that would not exist. A fake of a fake.

  41. avatar
    Patrick McKinnion September 7, 2009 at 2:10 pm #

    The only people not respecting the law are the birthers themselves. They make up laws and claim things in the Constitution that simply do not exist, and demand that rumours and outright lies be given more credibility in the courtroom than actual solid evidence.

  42. avatar
    Rickey September 7, 2009 at 2:25 pm #

    Expelliarmus,

    What attorney but Orly would be so reckless as to try to enter into evidence a document provided to her by a convicted forger? You couldn’t make this stuff up.

  43. avatar
    dunstvangeet September 7, 2009 at 2:36 pm #

    I’ve been asking Phil over at tRSoL what exact laws hasn’t Obama complied with. He gave me the usual birther diatribe that he hasn’t produced any evidence, completely avoiding the question.

    I turned around, and asked him to show me exactly what Federal laws Obama has not complied with. We’ll see if he gets back there or not.

  44. avatar
    Rickey September 7, 2009 at 3:29 pm #

    That would seem to be the logical way to go, but I checked on Orbitz and all of the published flight schedules from Honolulu to Nairobi involve flights to London, Amsterdam or Dubai and then connecting to a flight to Nairobi. Then of course there is another flight from Nairobi to Mombasa.

    One would think that it would be easier to fly Honolulu-Hong Kong-Nairobi, but the difference between that and Honolulu-London-Nairobi is only a few hundred flight miles.

  45. avatar
    Mary Brown September 7, 2009 at 4:32 pm #

    It says a great deal about what they are trying to do. They want to destroy another human being, with lies of omission and commision, and inuendo. To me in the greater spiritual sense, that says more about these people than anything else. Yet they claim to be values oriented.

  46. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny September 7, 2009 at 5:05 pm #

    “In the pre-IT British system the birth would literally be registered’ – written in a register.A birth certificate would then be issued in which the official (registrar) certified what was contained in the register. The informant would sign the register but not the birth certificate itself.”
    Funny, but that did not really change in Belgium, though a lot changed. Twenty-five years ago, before I went to registered the birth of my second daughter at town hall, at the clinic I received a “hospital certificate”, a sworn affidavit by a doctor attesting to the birth of a girl – no name, no weight, just a signature and a prob. In the presence of a city registrar and together with two “witnesses” (who were not present at the birth and whom I could have literally invited in from the street) I had to sign on a registry and write in the name. I was then given three birth certificates: one for leave off work, one for child benefit and one for keeps, which I soon lost. I still remember that it mentioned the names and professions of the witnesses, but not of the doctor. If my daughter wants a new birth certificate, she gets computer-generated “certified extracts from the birth registry”, which no longer mention those two mysterious bystanders.
    19 years later a lot had changed. No witnesses needed, I still had to hand in the hospital birth certificate, I now had 15 days for registering instead of 5, the registrar asked me to fill in and sign a slip of paper with the name – this seemed to merely help her input the data, I have no idea whether it was also fysiclly filed like the hospital certificate. Afterwards I was given four birth certificates (one of which was marked as destined for the Ukrainian embassy and which was promptly lost). The certified extracts are the same as for the older sister NOW.
    I later learnt something funny: the reason why parents now get more time to register at town hall is that the first working day after birth the hospital must send a short notice to the town registry marking day of birth, names of parents and sex of the child. This is practically always done electronically, through the internet. So, in a sense Belgium now has four types of birth cerificates: the birth notice by the doctor on the first day after (that one does not live on paper, usually), the hospital birth certificate which bears a better resemblance to a parking ticket issued by the police than to Orly’s collection of FKBCs, the “original” birth certificates or copies of registration and the certified extracts.

  47. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny September 7, 2009 at 5:08 pm #

    “and a prob” – meaning “and a probably unofficial seal”. Message was sent without me noticing. Perhaps it was too long?

  48. avatar
    richCares September 7, 2009 at 5:16 pm #

    interesting comment on poliijab showing lucas smith buying various BC’s in the 60′s time frame. Wonder why?
    http://www.politijab.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1899&start=1325

    also speculation that it’s not lucas smith’s signature (whicj I believe)

  49. avatar
    misha September 7, 2009 at 5:23 pm #

    Hey everyone, here’s another Kenyan birth certificate.

  50. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 7, 2009 at 6:00 pm #

    That is that old charge against Obama for dumping his grandmother’s ashes into the ocean with a permit.

  51. avatar
    Welsh Dragon September 7, 2009 at 6:09 pm #

    Hey misha that whoizo widget you’ve got on your blog can’t make up it’s mind where I am. A couple of days ago it put me somewhere I’d never heard of before , today it’s moved me 10-40 mile east.
    I’m geting travel sick without leaving my study :)

  52. avatar
    misha September 7, 2009 at 9:16 pm #

    It’s like the service that locates where you are logged on from. It locates the server you are using, which changes according to traffic.

    My location changes all the time. It’s the server, not your computer.

  53. avatar
    Bob Weber September 7, 2009 at 10:19 pm #

    There’s a conflict between Smith wanting to prove authenticity of the phony BC to his pigeons and the story of his top-secret undercover adventure in getting it.

    Apparently the Kenyan government thought the Obama BC was so important they put a military guard in the hospital to safekeep the original, and even “put it under seal”, whatever that’s supposed to mean. Ah, but Smith outwitted them by simply bribing the guard to look the other way while the hospital “unsealed” the original, photocopied it, and the chief administrator obligingly affixed his ink-stamp, including his e-mail, signed his name above the stamp, and affixed a convenient hospital seal to the photocopy! All for some guy who walked in off the street, but knew exactly whom to contact and where to go! I guess the chief admin of the hospital never got the message, or they bribed him, too. But if they bribed him, why would he sign and stamp it? Mr. Helton Maganga will surely get the firing squad for this!

    Has Orly’s monomania really made her this gullible, or has she gotten to the point she’s willing to self-immolate in service to the cause by submitting a transparently phony BC?

  54. avatar
    dunstvangeet September 7, 2009 at 10:58 pm #

    When they’re trusting the authenticity of a document given to them by a guy convicted of Forgery, you know that it’s a problem.

  55. avatar
    Mike September 8, 2009 at 8:16 am #

    I was born in the JR in Oxford, 29 years and a bit ago. My birth certificate is what would be called a “short form”, if you buy into the long and short form crap. It is signed by the Deputy Registrar for Oxford District, and is as legal a document as you’re going to get here.

    As I’ve pointed out before, the form of the document is unimportant – what matters is the issuing authority.

  56. avatar
    AdrianInFlorida September 8, 2009 at 9:57 am #

    So, what time is the hearing, or as I like to call it “The Moment Judge Carter becomes a commie sympathiser in the eyes of the Birthers”?

  57. avatar
    richCares September 8, 2009 at 10:00 am #

    scheduled from 8:00 to 8:30 this am, that’s when Carter will become a traitor.

  58. avatar
    AdrianInFlorida September 8, 2009 at 10:04 am #

    :)

    Thanks

    last night, he was a patriotic ex-Marine (No such thing, always a Marine) who was allowing the case “to go forward” By 8:30, he’ll be known as a KenyanUsurperMuzzieLovingTraitor. Funny what difference a day makes.

  59. avatar
    kimba September 8, 2009 at 10:59 am #

    They think the exMarine patriot is going to tell those US Attorneys to get out of his courtroom. These people slept through civics class. It is just sickening that President Kenyatta Mandingo and his gang of thugs could get to even our brave Judge Carter.

  60. avatar
    sarina September 8, 2009 at 1:52 pm #

    Does anybody knows something about Orly’s case for today in Sta. Ana?

  61. avatar
    Welsh Dragon September 8, 2009 at 1:57 pm #

    Delayed a few hours due to a backlog of cases.

  62. avatar
    sarina September 8, 2009 at 2:06 pm #

    thanks.

  63. avatar
    Per Son September 8, 2009 at 2:11 pm #

    Where are you getting your updates from?

    This is killing me!

  64. avatar
    AdrianInFlorida September 8, 2009 at 2:29 pm #

    Welsh Dragon: Delayed a few hours due to the Judge not being able to understand anything Orly has submitted into evidence.

    Fixed it for ya.

  65. avatar
    AdrianInFlorida September 8, 2009 at 2:29 pm #

    Orly’s facebook page has updates. She’s like the Sarah Palin of law, Facebook and Twitter are her PR firms.

  66. avatar
    Welsh Dragon September 8, 2009 at 2:34 pm #

    Politijab has someone at the court.

  67. avatar
    Bob September 8, 2009 at 3:10 pm #

    Popcorn time: Taitz pisses Larry Sinclair off.

  68. avatar
    kimba September 8, 2009 at 3:18 pm #

    Wow, it’s like a regular birther rogues gallery there in the OC today! Gonna be a real ripple in the force, I hope it doesn’t make the San Andreas fault snap!

  69. avatar
    Per Son September 8, 2009 at 3:30 pm #

    Anything else? Any rulings or orders made yet?

  70. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 8, 2009 at 3:33 pm #

    Shhh! I just put a Dr. Conspiracy twitter link on the sidebar (at the bottom)!
    ;) But seriously, if all you want to know is when a new article is published, and you’re on Twitter already, this is an easy way to be notified.

    http://www.twitter.com/DrConspiracy

  71. avatar
    nbc September 8, 2009 at 3:47 pm #

    Lunch recess, still nothing from either PJ or Facebook. Although, there is someone on Orly’s wall asking the following question:

    Phillip Graham I heard a rumor that Orly has been officially notified that she is under an active investigation by the California State Bar. Can Orly confirm this? Does anyone know anything about this? Are her enemies going to get her silenced?

  72. avatar
    nbc September 8, 2009 at 4:08 pm #

    Last update is that

    1. Service has been effected
    2. Kreep and Taitz forced to work it out
    3. Orly lost on all motions (recusal etc)

  73. avatar
    richCares September 8, 2009 at 4:22 pm #

    exactly as we anticipated!

  74. avatar
    nbc September 8, 2009 at 4:25 pm #

    Lucas Smith was not allowed to testify over heated objections of Orly citing ‘fear for his life’.
    Motion to dismiss will be heard October 5, and if not granted, there will be an in camera hearing following.

  75. avatar
    kimba September 8, 2009 at 4:33 pm #

    Maybe Orly can keep him there until Oct 5. Put him to work running some kind of con on Balboa Island, make a little coin for the cause – keep him out of danger/trouble.

  76. avatar
    Shrek September 8, 2009 at 5:18 pm #

    dafties @ wnd claim a trial has “tentatively” been set for 26 January 2010.

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=109242

  77. avatar
    Bob September 8, 2009 at 5:35 pm #

    Birfers do love to make the routine mystical. Such drama!

  78. avatar
    richCares September 8, 2009 at 5:46 pm #

    curious, where did that come from?

  79. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny September 8, 2009 at 5:56 pm #

    OK, since this thread will soon be dead, and we won’t discuss Lucas Smith’s scam much longer, here is my favourite birth certificate to be compared with his:
    http://inmydefence.skyrock.com/photo.html?id_article=225157670&rev=0

    Note the use of the British date format.

  80. avatar
    Greg September 8, 2009 at 6:07 pm #

    In civil cases, the judge sets a “tracking order” which sets out when a case will go to trial. It’s generally a routine matter and doesn’t indicate anything other than that this particular housekeeping matter has been taken care of. It doesn’t even generally have any realistic relationship to the date the thing will go to trial!

  81. avatar
    CPTG September 9, 2009 at 1:09 am #

    Let’s put the Barnett v. Obama into perspective, shall we? First and foremost, I am an American. I am neither a Democrat a Republican, a Pointy-headed Liberal or a Shovel-Headed Conservative. Truth be told, I am a Monarchist but now that the King of Pop has passed on, I have no one to rule over me, so I guess that makes me what…an Anarcist?

    1. Obama brought this all upon himself. He should have lined up all the doctors from the hospital and the registrars from the State with all their respective documents and said ‘People, I am an American. I was born in Hawaii after statehood, bring your experts in, ask all the questions you want and let’s put this puppy to bed. HE DIDN”T DO THAT!!! Instead Obama and his minions BLOCKED all calls for the production of documents.
    2. OBAMA was a SEN from what state? Illinois, the most corrupt state in the Union bar none. That makes him AUTOMATICALLY suspect in my books.
    3. What I find hysterically funny is that an courageous Army CPT put this all together on a shoestring budget and poked a finger in the eye of a sitting President by quietly challenging OBAMA’s right to serve.
    4. My question is why the deafening silence from the Republican Party on this issue. The GOP LIVES for this s**T!! Remember how the GOP Reamed Pres Clinton on nailing his little intern and on WhiteWater? But the GOP remains strangely silent on the birth certificate mess? Could there be a linkage on the Republican’s silence and Obama’s subsequent bailouts of WallStreet and the Auto big 2.5? Wouldn’t be the first ‘payoff’ and won’t be the last. CPTG

  82. avatar
    Bob September 9, 2009 at 1:24 am #

    1. Obama produced his COLB, which has satisfied the vast majority of people.
    2. Lincoln was from Illinois; kinda destroys your theory that everyone from there is corrupt, eh?
    3. Filing lawsuits is (relatively) cheap; if that’s the measure of “challenging” Obama, then Obama is “challenged” on a daily basis.
    4. The GOP has a love/hate relationship with the birfers; loves to stoke the base, but hates to look crazy in the eyes of the moderates.

  83. avatar
    misha September 9, 2009 at 2:55 am #

    “Obama’s subsequent bailouts of WallStreet and the Auto big 2.5?”

    Federal loan guarantees were started by Nixon, with Lockheed. The rescue was actually started while Bush was still in office.

    Bush and Obama did what they felt would prevent another Great Depression.

  84. avatar
    misha September 9, 2009 at 3:09 am #

    “But the GOP remains strangely silent on the birth certificate mess?”

    Because it is in the same category that 9/11 was an inside job.

    “Instead Obama and his minions BLOCKED all calls for the production of documents.”

    That’s been debunked several times over. If Obama gives in one micron, it will legitimize the denialists. He published his COLB, and that is good enough for me. To paraphrase Bill Maher, he could release a video of his birth with Don Ho playing in the background, and it would be rejected. Besides, now the denialists have invented a 2-parent rule, so the goalposts keep moving. He did not bring anything on himself. It’s a question of color, not certificate.

  85. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 9, 2009 at 8:08 am #

    Well, I think that if a video of Obama’s birth with Don Ho playing in the background should surface, I wouldn’t believe it either. ;)

  86. avatar
    AdrianInFlorida September 9, 2009 at 8:51 am #

    “Vell, Dat is exactly vat vee are asking de court to dooo, shooo us the Don Ho video, vitout it, vee have no proof dat dis muslim even likes de havyan music”

    [/OrlyVoice]

  87. avatar
    misha September 9, 2009 at 10:40 am #

    Is that a Russian or a Yiddish accent? (bada-bing)

  88. avatar
    Vinny Bangham September 16, 2009 at 8:47 pm #

    It is fine and well for rational folks to discredit the birthers; however, a google search on Rhodes vs Obama, Keyes vs Obama, Lucas Daniel Smith, et cetera results in page after page of links to the gleeful rantings of birthers citing these as proof-positive that Obama is not American. Where is the discrediting of this garbage? Too many everyday folks I overhear, only see FAUX or when they actually venture out to look-up something on the tubes – see google search results. This won’t go away. As long as so many are so willing to lie, and the populace are led by their trusted FAUX news source; there appears to be nothing to remedy such absurdity.

  89. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 16, 2009 at 9:30 pm #

    Check out our media page. There’s more mainstream debunking these days.

    The number of nobama ditto sites on the web doesn’t mean a lot.

  90. avatar
    Honorably Discharged October 14, 2009 at 1:48 am #

    I believe soon we are going to have to take her back by force. I am trained and armed and ready to be apart of history. Obviously these socialist idiots seem to think that they can boldly take her without a fight…..I don’t think so. To our corrupt fashist marxist socialist leadership (the enemy within) you are all a very short step away of finding out about the spirit of the American Fighting Man and if we have to come and remove you close up and personal like you will all hang by the neck till dead on the front lawn of the whitehouse! You will never take her we will not allow it. Your corrupt racketeering and dismantling of our Nation is quickly comming to an end for you. If you want to be on the right side you had better snap too and make Obama answere to the people or you will hang as a conspirator and bring shame and dishonor upon you and your families…………..

  91. avatar
    nbc October 14, 2009 at 1:52 am #

    Hahahaha, Great job. Sound almost like the real one, including the spelling errors and the term fashist (sic) marxist socialist.

    You’re good.

  92. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 14, 2009 at 8:05 am #

    Honorably Discharged: I believe soon we are going to have to take her back by force.

    Your wife leave you?

  93. avatar
    Black Lion October 14, 2009 at 9:09 am #

    It was probably the 5th grade education why she left. You read such garbage above and the articles by Newsmax but the birthers are not interested in “armed insurrection” or a “violent coup”, right? Hey Honorably Discharged, why don’t you go to the White House and make the President “hang by the neck till dead on the front lawn of the whitehouse”. Some on, there is a bunch of you. I would love to see you go and try. The entertainment value alone would be priceless…You guys have problems.

  94. avatar
    AdrianInFlorida October 14, 2009 at 10:11 am #

    Doc, did you get the i.p. address on that moron?

  95. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 14, 2009 at 10:48 am #

    The submitters IP address for all comments on this blog, and on all blogs using the WordPress software, is recorded.

  96. avatar
    nBc October 14, 2009 at 11:45 am #

    And we all know how Orly can track such an address back all the way to the exact house… Poor people who happened to live at the address…

    Hint: Translating IP address into location is fraught with problems and at best can provide you with country, state and perhaps city.

  97. avatar
    Benji Franklin October 14, 2009 at 1:23 pm #

    Dear Discharge,

    Your service entitles you to our respect, but your anarchistic threats forfeit any ongoing claim you might make to still being patriotically motivated. Politically driven re-interpretations of the Constitution and the substitution of guilt-concluding allegations for evidence are two legal twists you have unwittingly adopted from Stalin and Hitler.

    My proud military family has left limbs and hearts on the battlefield for 5 generations to defend a Constitution that rejects anarchy and instead offers us a political system where we can disagree and battle each other without bloodshed.

    You didn’t enlist to follow your own orders and you never took an oath to your own preferred interpretation of the Constitution. Get your head on straight again, Soldier and let your surviving loved ones’ proud memory of your service remain unsullied by this crazy impulse.

    God Bless You and bring you peace,
    Benji Franklin

  98. avatar
    SFJeff October 14, 2009 at 5:53 pm #

    “I am trained and armed and ready to be apart of history.”

    Okay I am now in favor a spelling test requirement for gun ownership.

  99. avatar
    nbc October 14, 2009 at 6:49 pm #

    ROTFL

  100. avatar
    HORUS May 31, 2010 at 12:45 pm #

    AND… here we are almost a year later and not one single court case has proceeded to discovery!

    Still wanna bet about this court case?

  101. avatar
    Sef May 31, 2010 at 1:04 pm #

    SFJeff: “I am trained and armed and ready to be apart of history.”Okay I am now in favor a spelling test requirement for gun ownership.

    If you take what he wrote literally what he said is probably very accurate.