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Former Hawaii election clerk: “Obama has no long form”

A video (audio with slides actually) has appeared on YouTube from a radio program called “Political Cesspool” hosted by James Edwards. Edwards’ guest is identified as Tim Adams “Chief Election Clerk” from the city and county of Honolulu, Hawaii during the 2008 presidential election.

It’s bad enough that a man named Ako Abdul-Samad is actually an elected state representative in Iowa.

Just a sample quote from the show’s host Edwards, who also carries this quote on his web page:

James Edwards is becoming a very important force in the movement for White advocacy. He hosts the The Political Cesspool, a weekly 3-hour radio show where he interviews a view range of personalities on their ideas (including me on more than one occasion). And he has become a director of the American Third Position, a political party that aims makes an explicit appeal to White identity and White interests.

In the video, Adams says of the elections staff in Honolulu “in our professional opinion Barack Obama was not born in the United States and there is no Hawaii long form birth certificate.” Adams claims that he (or at least someone in his office) had access to Social Security and NCIS [sic] systems that they “used on average voters” to verify eligibility to vote.

What Adams actually saw (if anything) is left to our imagination. He never says what he found or failed to find on any database that led him to his “professional” opinion that Barack Obama was not born in the United States. Indeed if you listen carefully he doesn’t claim that anything he found in those databases is the basis of his conclusion, or how a temporary worker gets to claim a “professional opinion.”

I contacted the City Clerk’s office in Honolulu, the office that oversees the Elections Division. They did indeed have a Tim Adams who worked as a clerk there (I understand from another source that he was a “senior clerk” and not “chief clerk”) but I was assured that that office had no access to state birth records.

Since President Obama was not a resident  of Hawaii in 2008, there is no legitimate reason for election workers to be poking around in federal databases for information on him. That means that if they did look, they are guilty of a federal crime. Oops.

166 Responses to Former Hawaii election clerk: “Obama has no long form”

  1. avatar
    richCares June 10, 2010 at 1:19 am #

    I checked and found no such title as “Chief Elections Clerk” in elections office, also no electional official has access to BC records, so this is bull pupu.
    .
    a temporary “chief elections clerk”, sure, this belongs on post @ fail.

  2. avatar
    richCares June 10, 2010 at 2:33 am #

    it is so easy to check, for those wishing to check:
    Office of Elections: Phone: 808 453-8683
    email: elections@hawaii.gov
    by the way, FreeRepublic “pulled” this story
    our birther troll James loves this story and gave a link to the bigot site that pushes this krap..

  3. avatar
    kupuna June 10, 2010 at 3:13 am #

    As we say in Hawaii, this is just shibai & kukae

    Is Tim Adams the brother of Mary Adams? One of Orly’s imagined enemies? Orly’s been punk’d….again.

  4. avatar
    TooFunny! June 10, 2010 at 7:09 am #

    I guess you can scratch 1-9 off your list.. ROFLMAO

    Hawaii elections clerk: Obama birth not here, Official who oversaw ballots in 2008 race says hospital birth certificate non-existent.

    A college professor who worked as a senior elections clerk for the City and County of Honolulu in 2008 is making the stunning claim Barack Obama was definitely not born in Hawaii as the White House maintains, and that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Obama does not even exist in the Aloha State.

    WND confirmed with Hawaiian officials that Adams was indeed working in their election offices during the last presidential election.

    “His title was senior elections clerk in 2008,” said Glen Takahashi, elections administrator for the City and County of Honolulu.

    Takahashi also confirmed Adams’ time frame at the office from spring until the month of August.

    “We hire temporary workers, because we’re seasonal,” he said.

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=165041

    “Of course we know that Barack Obama has a Hawaiian birth certificate, the state says so.” That is too funny! Guess that makes it so! LMAO

    By the way, Tim Adams is a Hillary Clinton supporter! ROFLMAO

    Here comes the spin, in…… 3…….2………1………SPIN!

  5. avatar
    Kevin Bellas June 10, 2010 at 7:17 am #

    Yeah, I’ll call it funny when in the same WND articles Glen Takahashi while admitting that they did have a Tim Adams as a temp, Also stated this.

    “However, when WND asked Takahashi if the elections office could check on birth records, he said, “We don’t have access to that kind of records. [There’s] no access to birth records.”

    Adams responded, “They may say, ‘We don’t have access to that.’ The regular workers don’t, the ones processing ballots; but the people in administration do. I was the one overseeing the work of the people doing the balloting.”

    Adams stressed, “In my professional opinion, [Obama] definitely was not born in Hawaii. I can say without a shadow of a doubt that he was not born in Hawaii because there is no legal record of him being born there. If someone called and asked about it, I could not tell them that person was born in the state.”

    Isn’t it funny that WND made Tim Adams look even more like a liar.

  6. avatar
    James June 10, 2010 at 8:25 am #

    Great article by WND. Could this Tim Adams be the DeepThroat that Phil Berg has been always hoping for? They need get Tim Adams to LTC Terry Lakin and determine what he knows. However, the Adam’s story does make some sense since we have NEVER seen Obama’s long-form BC. As Phil Berg has always contended, if Obama does indeed have a long-form BC, we would have seen it by now. Indeed, the State of Hawaii is lying we they say they have Obama’s original vital records. Most take the orginal vital records to be the long-form BC. I think it is safe to assume that the State does not have the long-form BC of Obama or we would seen it by now and it remains in question on just what the original vital record really is.

  7. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 10, 2010 at 8:30 am #

    richCares: it is so easy to check, for those wishing to check:
    Office of Elections: Phone: 808 453-8683
    email:elections@hawaii.gov
    by the way, FreeRepublic “pulled” this story
    our birther troll James loves this story and gave a link to the bigot site that pushes this krap..

    Been there, done that. I’ll let you know what I hear.

  8. avatar
    TooFunny! June 10, 2010 at 8:55 am #

    Let me help you with that

    WND confirmed with Hawaiian officials that Adams was indeed working in their election offices during the last presidential election.

    “His title was senior elections clerk in 2008,” said Glen Takahashi, elections administrator for the City and County of Honolulu.

    Takahashi also confirmed Adams’ time frame at the office from spring until the month of August.

    ROFLMAO

  9. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 10, 2010 at 9:02 am #

    TooFunny!: I guess you can scratch 1-9 off your list.. ROFLMAOHawaii elections clerk: Obama birth not here, Official who oversaw ballots in 2008 race says hospital birth certificate non-existent.A college professor who worked as a senior elections clerk for the City and County of Honolulu in 2008 is making the stunning claim Barack Obama was definitely not born in Hawaii as the White House maintains, and that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Obama does not even exist in the Aloha State. WND confirmed with Hawaiian officials that Adams was indeed working in their election offices during the last presidential election.“His title was senior elections clerk in 2008,” said Glen Takahashi, elections administrator for the City and County of Honolulu.Takahashi also confirmed Adams’ time frame at the office from spring until the month of August.“We hire temporary workers, because we’re seasonal,” he said.http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=165041“Of course we know that Barack Obama has a Hawaiian birth certificate, the state says so.” That is too funny! Guess that makes it so! LMAOBy the way, Tim Adams is a Hillary Clinton supporter! ROFLMAOHere comes the spin, in…… 3…….2………1………SPIN!

    Haha WND confirmed. World Nut Daily doesn’t confirm jack shit. I wrote their editor one time on a story they did during the Schiavo episode. They claimed a granddaughter was starving her grandmother and trying to pull her feeding tube too. Instead of doing investigative work they instead talked to one person, the person who just so happened was in the midst of a custody battle. The granddaughter had been taken care of by the granddaughter for years, she was being fed and she only recently needed a feeding tube because she stopped being able to swallow. The guy suing was never in the life of the grandmother but suddenly wanted in. Instead of a retraction WND just changed the headline.

    Oh so now its Senior Elections Clerk instead of “Chief Elections Clerk” Adams story keeps changing.

  10. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 10, 2010 at 9:03 am #

    TooFunny!: Let me help you with that WND confirmed with Hawaiian officials that Adams was indeed working in their election offices during the last presidential election.“His title was senior elections clerk in 2008,” said Glen Takahashi, elections administrator for the City and County of Honolulu.Takahashi also confirmed Adams’ time frame at the office from spring until the month of August.ROFLMAO

    Funny how Adams title keeps changing everytime the story is retold

  11. avatar
    Dr. David Goliath June 10, 2010 at 9:13 am #

    LTC Lakin video explaining the current status of his case.

    He states he will renew his request for Obama’s original birth records at his General Courts Martial sometime this summer.

  12. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 10, 2010 at 9:19 am #

    Dr. David Goliath: LTC Lakin video explaining the current status of his case. He states he will renew his request for Obama’s original birth records at his General Courts Martial sometime this summer.

    You’re in the wrong thread Lakin has nothing to do with this

  13. avatar
    katahdin June 10, 2010 at 9:28 am #

    Well, this valuable information should keep the paypal button humming over at WND.

  14. avatar
    katahdin June 10, 2010 at 9:29 am #

    By the way, what is with the apostrophe abuse in the title of this post? Save the apostrophes!

  15. avatar
    richCares June 10, 2010 at 9:57 am #

    what’s funny is that this is another OMG momemnt that gets the paypapl poppin’, and like all the other OMG moments will go nowhere. White spots on the wall! Birthers are so easy to sucker. Doc put a paypal button up, let’s share some sucker money, they are there for the taking.

  16. avatar
    Dr. David Goliath June 10, 2010 at 10:03 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):

    I agree. BHO will have to appear and state under oath he cannot testify or provide documents as to his eligibility because it will incriminate him, i.e. Takes the 5th.

    Start spinning Obots. Barack doesn’t have to testify because he’s using the Constitution to protect himself from being exposed as someone who has violated the Constitution.

  17. avatar
    racosta June 10, 2010 at 10:08 am #

    “He states he will renew his request for Obama’s original birth records at his General Courts Martial sometime this summer.”
    .
    are you aware that Hawaii sent a certified copy of Obama’s BC to LTC Driscoll at Obama’s request?

  18. avatar
    Bob Ross June 10, 2010 at 10:15 am #

    Dr. David Goliath:
    I agree. BHO will have to appear and state under oath he cannot testify or provide documents as to his eligibility because it will incriminate him, i.e. Takes the 5th.Start spinning Obots. Barack doesn’t have to testify because he’s using the Constitution to protect himself from being exposed as someone who has violated the Constitution.

    Stop trolling youre in the wrong thread. This thread has nothing to do with Lakin.

  19. avatar
    richCares June 10, 2010 at 10:28 am #

    “Stop trolling youre in the wrong thread. This thread has nothing to do with Lakin.”
    .
    Dr. C does not have a paypal button, so why do these trolls come here, it’s missing their familar paypal button. Are they just sharing their latest failure?
    .
    By the way the citizenship test has a multiple choice question:
    Who is President of US? 3 choices
    1. Barack Obama 2. Saddam Hussien 3. Usurper.
    my wife answered 1, it was the correct answer.

  20. avatar
    Dr. David Goliath June 10, 2010 at 10:29 am #

    Bob Ross:
    Stop trolling youre in the wrong thread.This thread has nothing to do with Lakin.

    Start your own wordpress blog and block all my posts. Otherwise, try deferring to Dr. Conspiracy’s discretion as to which posts are on topic and which posts are not.

    I see Doc is backtracking on long form birth certificates required for obtaining a passports in some instances. How about backtracking on a minor’s ability to renounce their US citizenship, Doc?

  21. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 10, 2010 at 10:33 am #

    Dr. David Goliath: Start your own wordpress blog and block all my posts. Otherwise, try deferring to Dr. Conspiracy’s discretion as to which posts are on topic and which posts are not.I see Doc is backtracking on long form birth certificates required for obtaining a passports in some instances. How about backtracking on a minor’s ability to renounce their US citizenship, Doc?

    He’s not backtracking. Hawaii doesn’t require long form. I could start my own wordpress or perhaps you could do the logical thing and post on subject. Nowhere did Doc backtrack on a minor being able to renounce their citizenship

  22. avatar
    JoZeppy June 10, 2010 at 10:42 am #

    TooFunny!: I guess you can scratch 1-9 off your list.. ROFLMAO
    Hawaii elections clerk: Obama birth not here, Official who oversaw ballots in 2008 race says hospital birth certificate non-existent.
    A college professor who worked as a senior elections clerk for the City and County of Honolulu in 2008 is making the stunning claim Barack Obama was definitely not born in Hawaii as the White House maintains, and that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Obama does not even exist in the Aloha State.
    WND confirmed with Hawaiian officials that Adams was indeed working in their election offices during the last presidential election.
    “His title was senior elections clerk in 2008,” said Glen Takahashi, elections administrator for the City and County of Honolulu.
    Takahashi also confirmed Adams’ time frame at the office from spring until the month of August.
    “We hire temporary workers, because we’re seasonal,” he said.
    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=165041

    First off, he’s not a professor, he’s a student.

    Secondly, he was a temp, that never states he had access to Obama’s vital records (and I highly doubt that any state would let a bunch of temp workers rummage freely through records). Access to a bunch of databases, but not to any birth certificates. And he never says he even looked up anything on Obama. And then he makes a hearsay comment we’re supposed to believe?

    Wow…I can see why you’d take the hearsay statement of a temp worker, that he never confrimed, with no access to Hawaii’s vital records over the Republican governor and head of DoH. Do you folks even think before you jump on every new unsubstantiated claim? There is a reason why everyone laughs at birthers. You jump behind every yahoo making a statement that supports your predetermined world view without thinking critically about it.

  23. avatar
    Scott Brown June 10, 2010 at 11:03 am #

    richCares:

    our birther troll James loves this story and gave a link to the bigot site that pushes this krap..

    Name calling again I see – perhaps calling someone a ‘troll’ doesn’t constitute belittling in your book, but it certainly does mine – especially since I’ve been called a troll, which is highly insulting in my opinion.

    I’ve read some of James’ posts and while I mostly do not support or agree with what he says, I would prefer to argue with him based on facts rather than resorting to name calling….which makes it appear you have no real come back other than to sling mud.

  24. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 10, 2010 at 11:05 am #

    Scott Brown: Name calling again I see – perhaps calling someone a troll’ doesn’t constitute belittling in your book, but it certainly does mine – especially since I’ve been called a troll, which is highly insulting in my opinion.I’ve read some of James’ posts and while I mostly do not support or agree with what he says, I would prefer to argue with him based on facts rather than resorting to name calling….which makes it appear you have no real come back other than to sling mud.

    There’s nothing mudslinging about calling a troll a troll. When someone constanly comes in and posts off topic posts and refuses to engage in a debate they are a troll

  25. avatar
    Scott Brown June 10, 2010 at 11:09 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Hawaii doesn’t require long form.

    Hawaii doesn’t require a long form for what?

    When did Hawaii start controlling the State Department?

    If perhaps you meant to say the State Department doesn’t require long-forms from Hawaii, then please state why you believe that. Please explain why they require long-forms from some states and not others?

    If it were because, as Dr. C. states – because border states present unusual circumstances – you don’t think Hawaii would present any unusual circumstances? The state had just recently been admitted to the Union in 1961 (which is the year we are concerned about) and last time I checked Hawaii was just sitting out there by its lonesome with no shared borders at all. Yes….I can definitely see why the State Dept might think Texas needed to supply long-forms for passports while Hawaii needn’t bother – NOT.

  26. avatar
    richCares June 10, 2010 at 11:14 am #

    “If perhaps you meant to say the State Department doesn’t require long-forms from Hawaii, then please state why you believe that”
    .
    because my daughter born 1965 in Hawaii got a passport with her COLB, why do you continually bring this up. Many posters here, like me, are from Hawaii . Our children’s passsports based on COLB are proof that you mumble. What is the purpose of your silly exchange.

  27. avatar
    richCares June 10, 2010 at 11:16 am #

    you have no real come back other than to sling mud.
    .
    James posts krap from white supremeist stes, calling it what it is is not name calling. Are you a storm trooper too. These peopl have no argument (loke you)

  28. avatar
    JoZeppy June 10, 2010 at 11:23 am #

    Scott Brown: If it were because, as Dr. C. states – because border states present unusual circumstances – you don’t think Hawaii would present any unusual circumstances? The state had just recently been admitted to the Union in 1961 (which is the year we are concerned about) and last time I checked Hawaii was just sitting out there by its lonesome with no shared borders at all. Yes….I can definitely see why the State Dept might think Texas needed to supply long-forms for passports while Hawaii needn’t bother – NOT.

    No, Hawaii does not present any issues. Hawaii was not the wild west of no government or adminstrative offices when it became a state in 1959. Hawaii had been a US territory since 1898 (and was an independant nation before that). Hawaii had a very long history of self administration. There is no reason to think becoming a state change anything on the local level.

    And Hawaii is dfferent from Texas and California for exactly the reasons you state. It’s in the middle of no where. The problems faced with Texas and California was that there were illegal aliens coming in, and going to irreputable mid-wives (some who were later convicted of fraud), and making bogus birth certificates claiming birth in the US for Mexican born babies. Last time I checked, not very many illegals are sneaking across the ocean to slip into Hawaii.

  29. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 10, 2010 at 11:26 am #

    Scott Brown: Hawaii doesn’t require a long form for what?When did Hawaii start controlling the State Department?If perhaps you meant to say the State Department doesn’t require long-forms from Hawaii, then please state why you believe that. Please explain why they require long-forms from some states and not others?If it were because, as Dr. C. states – because border states present unusual circumstances – you don’t think Hawaii would present any unusual circumstances? The state had just recently been admitted to the Union in 1961 (which is the year we are concerned about) and last time I checked Hawaii was just sitting out there by its lonesome with no shared borders at all. Yes….I can definitely see why the State Dept might think Texas needed to supply long-forms for passports while Hawaii needn’t bother – NOT.

    Long forms are no longer required to prove citizenship for official IDs, passports, state licenses, etc. The COLB is prima facie. This has been explained to you over and over again.

    Hawaii isn’t a border state. So far the only thing you have to go off of is that 2 states recently changed from accepting a COLB to long form. Before that they used short form COLBs. You also have the other 48 states to contend with.

    You must think Hawaii was a savage, unsophisticated place before the United States came along.

  30. avatar
    misha June 10, 2010 at 11:34 am #

    Scott Brown: you said you live in the Texas panhandle. Do you know Ed Hale?

    I live in a panhandle, too: http://product-image.tradeindia.com/00277627/b/0/Sauce-Pan-or-Frying-Pan-Handle.jpg

  31. avatar
    racosta June 10, 2010 at 11:43 am #

    Scott brown, Free Republic pulled the Tim Adams thread due to connections to White Supremacist groups. James often refers to these fine groups with pride. What is it that James posts that makes you think he has a valid point. Many of us believe that these racists deserve ridicule and the have no valid point. Explain why we should not insult these kind of racists. It is getting close to the point of including you in the troll category.

  32. avatar
    Steve June 10, 2010 at 11:54 am #

    The “Tim Adams” in the video says he’s now at Western Kentucky University. FWIW, I did a Google search of Tim Adams at Western Kentucky. The only one I found was a grad assistant.

  33. avatar
    richCares June 10, 2010 at 11:55 am #

    “Scott Brown: you said you live in the Texas panhandle. Do you know Ed Hale?”
    .
    I nominate this as best insult of the month
    This was great Misha, but it may go over scott’s head.

  34. avatar
    Ellid June 10, 2010 at 12:19 pm #

    I’ve tempted quite a bit in my life, and I can tell you right now that no state agency would let a bunch of temps near vital statistics databases. There’s far too much potential for identity theft and fraud.

    As for WND, anyone who would take them seriously as anything more than a propaganda site is even nuttier than Orly Taitz

    Finally, that Tim Adams of the non-existent title appears to be a graduate student goes along with him being a temp. He probably needed extra money and worked for about $8/hour, tops.

    Not precisely a good or credible source.

  35. avatar
    misha June 10, 2010 at 12:22 pm #

    richCares: did you click on my link for the panhandle I live in?

    I live in a panhandle, too: http://product-image.tradeindia.com/00277627/b/0/Sauce-Pan-or-Frying-Pan-Handle.jpg

  36. avatar
    richCares June 10, 2010 at 12:30 pm #

    richCares: did you click on my link for the panhandle I live in?
    .
    yes, you owe me a keyboard. I have to stop drinking coffee whiie posting.
    scott “don’t hurl,insult, file vs recieved, long form, etc” brown has quickly evolved, she needs one more post to achieve “TROLL” status.

  37. avatar
    Jules June 10, 2010 at 12:35 pm #

    Scott Brown: If it were because, as Dr. C. states – because border states present unusual circumstances – you don’t think Hawaii would present any unusual circumstances? The state had just recently been admitted to the Union in 1961 (which is the year we are concerned about) and last time I checked Hawaii was just sitting out there by its lonesome with no shared borders at all. Yes….I can definitely see why the State Dept might think Texas needed to supply long-forms for passports while Hawaii needn’t bother – NOT.

    *sigh* I have already responded to this on another thread. I will summarise my previous statements as follows:
    1. Hawaii is geographically isolated not only from the mainland US, but also from foreign countries such that any person arriving does so on plane or ship, making is fairly easy to know who is arriving. Thus, there are no concerns about a border between Hawaii and a foreign state as there are about the border between Texas and Mexico.
    2. Your concerns about Hawaii’s supposed problems as a “new state” assume that Hawaii Territory did not create an adequate birth registration system for the State of Hawaii to inherit and that the State of Hawaii had a lax registration system in 1961. Unless you can show some evidence for this, then Hawaii being a new state was irrelevant.
    3. The problems with Texas are based upon documented evidence of actual fraud by particular midwives affecting a number of birth registrations. Unless you can show that similar fraud has occurred in Hawaii, then your assumptions about Hawaiian certificates and State Department treatment of them are not reasonable.

  38. avatar
    Sef June 10, 2010 at 12:40 pm #

    JoZeppy: First off, he’s not a professor, he’s a student.

    To these yokels anyone who gets beyond 8th grade is probably thought of as a “professor”.

  39. avatar
    Dave June 10, 2010 at 12:40 pm #

    The Anit-Defamation League has an interesting article about James Edwards and his radio show, Political Cesspool:

    a Memphis, Tennessee-based AM and Internet radio show on which anti-Semites, white supremacists, and other right-wing extremists regularly appear to voice their views… Show sponsors include the white supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens and the Institute for Historical Review, a Holocaust denial organization.

    It goes on at some length in this vein.

    I just can’t get over Taitz making common cause with these anti-Semites. She has a rare gift for not knowing things she doesn’t want to know.

  40. avatar
    Scientist June 10, 2010 at 12:48 pm #

    Dave: I just can’t get over Taitz making common cause with these anti-Semites.

    Are we sure Taitz is actually Jewish? There were non-Jews (some of distant jewish ancestry, some not) in the former Soviet Union who claimed to be Jewish because it facilitated emigration. I know her husband is a native Israeli, so I guess he is, but I’m not so sure about her.

  41. avatar
    Jules June 10, 2010 at 1:06 pm #

    Scientist:
    There were non-Jews (some of distant jewish ancestry, some not) in the former Soviet Union who claimed to be Jewish because it facilitated emigration.

    The Law of Return allows oleh visas to be granted to those whose parents or grandparents are Jewish, even if they are not Jewish themselves. Thus, not all non-Jews would be claiming to be Jewish.

    Some of the people who wouldn’t be Jewish for the purpose of the Law of Return may rightly consider themselves Jewish even though they have to apply as non-Jewish children or grandchildren of a Jew. The Law of Return uses the Orthodox definition as to who is a Jew so as to require that someone who is not a convert have a Jewish mother. American Reform Judaism, meanwhile, normally regards any child of a Jew who is raised Jewish to be a Jew. Furthermore, my understanding is that the USSR normally viewed ethnicity along patrilineal lines and considered those with Jewish fathers to be Jewish.

  42. avatar
    JoZeppy June 10, 2010 at 1:09 pm #

    Dave: I just can’t get over Taitz making common cause with these anti-Semites. She has a rare gift for not knowing things she doesn’t want to know.

    After a life of mediocrity, Orly is basking in the birther limelight. Rather than merely being a dentist who got a mail order law degree to save money on her malpractice suits, she has now become, “Orly, constitutional attorney, defender of our liberties.”

    I really don’t know if she’s suffering from some personality disorder, her ego can’t bear the idea of no longer being in the limelight, and will jump on anything that she thinks can be the basis of another suit, or she’s really as delusional as she appears. Either way, she has established a track record of swallowing anything that possibly supports her theories, and doesn’t care where it comes from (we all remember that picture of the Kenyan birth certificate she ran over to the court without wasting a second to attempt to confirm anything about it).

  43. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny June 10, 2010 at 1:15 pm #

    Scientist: Are we sure Taitz is actually Jewish? There were non-Jews (some of distant jewish ancestry, some not) in the former Soviet Union who claimed to be Jewish because it facilitated emigration. I know her husband is a native Israeli, so I guess he is, but I’m not so sure about her.

    He’s not native Israeli, he’s a Jew born in Latvia. Probably left the Soviet Union much earlier than Orly and went straight to the USA, Orly at least went to Israel (and of course Romania) before going to the USA.

    I am sure they speak Russian at home – it is almost inconceivable for someone who left the Soviet Union more than twenty years ago, spent almost her whole adult life outside the Soviet Union and lived for such a long time in the United States to speak such good Russian and such bad English – unless they continue to speak Russian at home.

    The only issue I have found with Orly being Jewish is the fact that on one of her wedding papers in Vegas she was claimed by someone to have written “Auerbuch” as her maiden name. The one who noted this, thought it was another typical Orleyan slip of the pen; the point is that it means Orly was aware of the German spelling her maiden name – while the normal English transcription of the Russian version of that name is “Averbukh”. Now, Averbukh is a name that also occurs among Russians of German descent,so it is not a markedly Jewish name, unlike “Taitz”, which though etymologically Slavic (it means something which is secret), is a Russian Jewish family name.

    But you are right, there were people you could call fakers. In the Soviet Union, at birth ethnicity by default depended on the mother. When you got your first passport, you could switch that to the father’s ethnicity or the/a dominant ethnic group in the republic you were then living at. Switching to Russian was very common among half-Jews in the Soviet Union, but “now and then” such people remembered that they were really Jewish. There are no indications that this was also the case with the Averbukhs,

  44. avatar
    Dave June 10, 2010 at 1:26 pm #

    Scientist:
    Are we sure Taitz is actually Jewish?

    This strikes me as an odd question. I have no information to suggest she isn’t, but anyhow it’s beside the point. Having wasted way too much time reading her blog, I know she is extremely pro-Israel, of the “Israel can do no wrong” variety. And she posts everything she can find criticizing the President for being insufficiently pro-Israel (and none of the criticism he gets for being too pro-Israel).

    So it’s hard for me to understand her making buddies out of anybody so anti-Israel as a Holocaust denier.

  45. avatar
    G June 10, 2010 at 1:57 pm #

    racosta: Scott brown, Free Republic pulled the Tim Adams thread due to connections to White Supremacist groups. James often refers to these fine groups with pride. What is it that James posts that makes you think he has a valid point. Many of us believe that these racists deserve ridicule and the have no valid point. Explain why we should not insult these kind of racists. It is getting close to the point of including you in the troll category.

    Scott Brown (aka Sally Hill) has been in the troll category for a long, long time.

  46. avatar
    Black Lion June 10, 2010 at 2:09 pm #

    G: Scott Brown (aka Sally Hill) has been in the troll category for a long, long time.

    Our friend “Scott Brown” is the infamous birther poster “Sally Hill”? If so that make a lot of sense. She used to post anti Obama stuff on a lot of pro birther sites…

  47. avatar
    G June 10, 2010 at 2:10 pm #

    Scott Brown: If it were because, as Dr. C. states – because border states present unusual circumstances – you don’t think Hawaii would present any unusual circumstances? The state had just recently been admitted to the Union in 1961 (which is the year we are concerned about) and last time I checked Hawaii was just sitting out there by its lonesome with no shared borders at all. Yes….I can definitely see why the State Dept might think Texas needed to supply long-forms for passports while Hawaii needn’t bother – NOT.

    Again, you post nothing but wrong information, “Scott Brown” aka “Sally Hill”.

    First of all, Hawaii became a state on August 21, 1959. So you are off by a few years there. As others have already pointed out, it officially became a U.S. territory via annexation way back in 1898.

    Second – the whole point of HI being isolated and way in the middle of the Pacific ocean is that it is hard to get to – only by plane or boat. Therefore, it obviously doesn’t have land border crossing issues with Mexico, like TX & CA do. So your whole analogy is completely backwards.

    if anything, HI would be one of the hardest places for anyone to smuggle themselves into or infiltrate without their travel there being easily tracked or documented. *duh*

    Third, HI has clearly stated that for well over a decade, the official form they issue & use for birth certificates is the COLB! There is nothing you have said that can get around this basic, hard core proof and fact. End of Story!

    Therefore, your whole “unusual circumstances” trope is just another mudslinging false accusation and another failed one of your birther misinformation tactics.

  48. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 10, 2010 at 2:21 pm #

    G: Again, you post nothing but wrong information, “Scott Brown” aka “Sally Hill”.First of all, Hawaii became a state on August 21, 1959. So you are off by a few years there. As others have already pointed out, it officially became a U.S. territory via annexation way back in 1898.Second – the whole point of HI being isolated and way in the middle of the Pacific ocean is that it is hard to get to – only by plane or boat. Therefore, it obviously doesn’t have land border crossing issues with Mexico, like TX & CA do. So your whole analogy is completely backwards.if anything, HI would be one of the hardest places for anyone to smuggle themselves into or infiltrate without their travel there being easily tracked or documented. *duh*Third, HI has clearly stated that for well over a decade, the official form they issue & use for birth certificates is the COLB! There is nothing you have said that can get around this basic, hard core proof and fact. End of Story!Therefore, your whole “unusual circumstances” trope is just another mudslinging false accusation and another failed one of your birther misinformation tactics.

    G you have to excuse Sally that Hawaii becoming a state in 1961 part must have come from her plagiarizing i mean her research.

  49. avatar
    Sef June 10, 2010 at 2:31 pm #

    Black Lion:
    Our friend “Scott Brown” is the infamous birther poster “Sally Hill”?If so that make a lot of sense. She used to post anti Obama stuff on a lot of pro birther sites…

    I don’t recall seeing the “Scott Brown” moniker before the recent MA election.

  50. avatar
    G June 10, 2010 at 2:42 pm #

    Black Lion:
    Our friend “Scott Brown” is the infamous birther poster “Sally Hill”?If so that make a lot of sense. She used to post anti Obama stuff on a lot of pro birther sites…

    Yes, she admitted such on the Long Form COLB thread, at this timeframe:

    Scott Brown 10. Jun, 2010 at 12:00 pm, in response to Lupin:

    Scott Brown: I used to post here under the name of Sally Hill, and I did return to postings, but when all I got in return of my 2 cents was a bunch of name calling and harassment (no real or civil discussion of the issues)- I became a lurker. I didn’t post here for a long time – I just read Dr. C’s posts and left it at that.

    That poster’s name is definitely familiar and goes way back on certain sites, to the early days of the birther movement – possibly even further than that.

    So this is someone with a well-known strong birther agenda who’s been doing this for a long, long time.

    Black Lion, what sites do you remember “Sally Hill” from? Was she a PUMA?

  51. avatar
    mimi June 10, 2010 at 2:49 pm #

    Hey Doc,

    Tim wrote a book. Loren found it.

    http://books.google.com/books?id=tjofz31uTSkC&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22Stories+I%27ve+Finished+Before+I%27m+Dead%22&ei=D-kQTLaFBIbEywSqhsX1Cg&cd=1#v=onepage&q&f=false

    Other PJ-ers found some information as well.

  52. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 10, 2010 at 2:49 pm #

    G: Yes, she admitted such on the Long Form COLB thread, at this timeframe:Scott Brown 10. Jun, 2010 at 12:00 pm, in response to Lupin:Scott Brown: I used to post here under the name of Sally Hill, and I did return to postings, but when all I got in return of my 2 cents was a bunch of name calling and harassment (no real or civil discussion of the issues)- I became a lurker. I didn’t post here for a long time – I just read Dr. C’s posts and left it at that.That poster’s name is definitely familiar and goes way back on certain sites, to the early days of the birther movement – possibly even further than that. So this is someone with a well-known strong birther agenda who’s been doing this for a long, long time.Black Lion, what sites do you remember “Sally Hill” from? Was she a PUMA?

    Remember guys she’s not a birther she just plays one on TV.

    So far doing a google search I’ve found her at:

    joshuacolwell
    notionscapital
    theminaretonline
    the Post & Fail
    mariopeperni
    associatedcontent
    mediamatters
    nbc

    That’s just a few

  53. avatar
    G June 10, 2010 at 2:51 pm #

    TooFunny!: By the way, Tim Adams is a Hillary Clinton supporter! ROFLMAO

    Here comes the spin, in…… 3…….2………1………SPIN!

    No spin needed.

    Ever heard of PUMA’s? They were the original birthers. *sheesh*

    And wow, so your latest big “OMG” moment is some college kid’s summer temping story that he posts at white supremacist cites and then the well-known hack dirt rag WND picks up on it?

    WOW. Just WOW! Talk about putting all of your hopes into the weakest of links! LMAO! Boy, you can barely get less credible than that! The only way I think you could top that is to claim Sven as your source.

    LMAO!

  54. avatar
    heron June 10, 2010 at 3:08 pm #

    So….let me see…..he’s had this information for years, and this information, according to this grad student and temporary election employee with no access to birth records, was know to at least 50 people…….and he and everyone else who was aware has chosen to say nothing Lo’ these many months of lawsuits and tea bagging and on and on and on………….um……not buying. Oh, and releasing the information of Stormfront of all sites……classy too. WTF? The next ‘Great White Hope’ for the birfoons.

  55. avatar
    Black Lion June 10, 2010 at 3:28 pm #

    G: Yes, she admitted such on the Long Form COLB thread, at this timeframe:Scott Brown 10. Jun, 2010 at 12:00 pm, in response to Lupin:Scott Brown: I used to post here under the name of Sally Hill, and I did return to postings, but when all I got in return of my 2 cents was a bunch of name calling and harassment (no real or civil discussion of the issues)- I became a lurker. I didn’t post here for a long time – I just read Dr. C’s posts and left it at that.That poster’s name is definitely familiar and goes way back on certain sites, to the early days of the birther movement – possibly even further than that. So this is someone with a well-known strong birther agenda who’s been doing this for a long, long time.Black Lion, what sites do you remember “Sally Hill” from? Was she a PUMA?

    Not sure….I think I remember her posting over at tROSL back when it was active. Also I think I saw her name on a couple of other birther sites. She could be a PUMA for all we know. She was always very anti Obama…..

  56. avatar
    G June 10, 2010 at 3:48 pm #

    mimi: Hey Doc,
    Tim wrote a book.Loren found it.http://books.google.com/books?id=tjofz31uTSkC&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22Stories+I%27ve+Finished+Before+I%27m+Dead%22&ei=D-kQTLaFBIbEywSqhsX1Cg&cd=1#v=onepage&q&f=falseOther PJ-ers found some information as well.

    Thanks Mimi! That is definitely an interesting link.

  57. avatar
    G June 10, 2010 at 3:50 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Remember guys she’s not a birther she just plays one on TV.So far doing a google search I’ve found her at:joshuacolwell
    notionscapital
    theminaretonline
    the Post & Fail
    mariopeperni
    associatedcontent
    mediamatters
    nbcThat’s just a few

    Good find. Thanks!.

    Black Lion: Not sure….I think I remember her posting over at tROSL back when it was active. Also I think I saw her name on a couple of other birther sites. She could be a PUMA for all we know. She was always very anti Obama…..

    Yeah, me too. She’s definitely been a long time avid birther. That’s for sure.

    I look forward to what anyone else uncovers. As I said, I thought I saw this moniker on some PUMA sites back in the day, but I can’t be sure.

  58. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 10, 2010 at 3:57 pm #

    G: Good find. Thanks!.Yeah, me too. She’s definitely been a long time avid birther. That’s for sure. I look forward to what anyone else uncovers. As I said, I thought I saw this moniker on some PUMA sites back in the day, but I can’t be sure.

    G I cross referenced Party Unity My Ass with Sally Hill

    http://www.hillarynme.com/2009/07/22/msnbc-makes-a-mockery-of-obama-birth-certificate-coverage-lies-to-the-american-public/

    There she is at Hillarynme

    Phoenix new times

    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2009/08/kfyis_barry_markson_eats_birth.php

    I’m sure if I dig harder I’ll find more. She makes a point not to ever be consistent. On these sites she claims she believes he was born in Hawaii but remember now here she has a problem with filing and received and the colb being valid.

  59. avatar
    Black Lion June 10, 2010 at 4:38 pm #

    Speaking of You Tube, Lucas Smith still thinks that people are not smart enough to realize that his Kenyan BC is a fake. He takes to You Tube with an astounding revelation….Shockingly Hussein is not a Kenyan name….It seems like he is desperate to become relevant in birtherland and have his fake believed…..Truly pathetic….

    InspectorSmith (14 hours ago)
    Spam Marked as spam
    TREMENDOUSLY IMPORTANT FINDINGS.

    Important research finding (by Lucas Smith) for serious researchers and investigator of President Obama’s Kenya birth in Mombasa, British Protectorate of Kenya.

    Some skeptics have called into question the name of the “Supervisor of Obstetrics” listed on the British Protectorate of Kenya, Mombasa, hospital birth certificate of President Barack Hussien Obama.

    The name listed in “John Kwame Odongo”. Many skeptics (all of which lack any first hand knowledge of Africa or East Africa) have questioned the name “Kwame”. The skeptics claim that a Kenya would never give their son a “Ghanaian” name such as “Kwame”.

    InspectorSmith (14 hours ago)
    Spam Marked as spam
    I (Lucas Smith) have in the past delivered several explanation of the name “John Kwame Odongo”. My explanations in the past more than sufficed in squashing wild claims that no Kenya would be allowed such a name.

    Now, through recent investigation, I present an even greater piece of evidence that has been in right in front of our noses as early as January, 2010 (and really for many many many years)…………..

    InspectorSmith (14 hours ago)
    Spam Marked as spam
    This piece of evidence comes from US President Barack Hussein Obama’s half brother in Kenya, “George Hussein Obama”, in his 2010 published book, “Homeland: An Extraordinary Story of Hope and Survival”.

    I, Lucas Smith, have been reading George Hussein Obama’s book for the last 2 days now.

    Page 81:

    “It was my second name, and there was something exotic and different about it that I liked. Again, it was difference that drew me. There were plenty of Georges at school, but no other Husseins. It wasn’t a regular Kenyan name, that was for sure. In fact the only guy I’d ever heard of called Hussein was Saddam Hussein, so maybe it hailed from Iraq.”

    InspectorSmith (14 hours ago)
    Spam Marked as spam
    There you have it in the words of President Obama’s own brother in Kenya. Both President Obama and his borther’s second name, “HUSSEIN”, is NOT a Kenyan name, and is certainly NOT a tribal name for the Luo tribe or any other tribe in East Africa.

    So the skeptics want us all to believe that John “Kwame” Odongo’s second name is impossible.

    Yet these same skeptics have no problem with George “Hussein” Obama and Barack “Hussein” Obama I and Barack Hussein Obama II.

    InspectorSmith (14 hours ago)
    Spam Marked as spam
    Please everyone, do not discard the foregoing reseach findings into the lost land of Obama notes. All research findings posted on this page are tremendously important and would not be posted here unless deemed so as important. Please spread the word around the Internet and with fiends, family and co-workers.

    Thank you all for your patriotic support.

    Lucas D. Smith

  60. avatar
    Sef June 10, 2010 at 4:51 pm #

    Black Lion: In fact the only guy I’d ever heard of called Hussein was Saddam Hussein

    What about his own father?? WTF???

  61. avatar
    Loren June 10, 2010 at 5:00 pm #

    I think that nothing’s more telling about Smith’s veracity than his preoccupation with justifying the minutiae of his document.

    If I were claiming that I’d obtained a secret document from a foreign country, and my critics were attacking its authenticity, I wouldn’t focus on countering the nitpicks with online resources.

    For one thing, I’d actually prove I was in that foreign country when I said I was. I’d share a plane ticket, some receipts, and/or photos of me at the foreign location. But Lucas has been spinning his tale for a year, and has yet to produce a single scrap of evidence that he’s ever so much as stepped foot in Kenya.

    Those are some curious priorities.

  62. avatar
    G June 10, 2010 at 5:23 pm #

    Black Lion –

    Thanks as always for the info you find & share.

    How hilarious & truly pathetic that Lucas Smith’s latest rants are!

    **Major Breaking News Flash*** …Hussein is not a Kenyan name!!!! OMG!

    *snork*

    Boy, these folks really have the intellect of silly putty, don’t they! I mean really, who on this planet didn’t understand that Hussein is an Islamic based name and that it came from the issue of religion and not from tribal origin.

    For the same reason, Lucas is barking up the wrong tree, trying to equate that lame bit of trivia with his apples to origin comparison of the national/tribal origins of the name Kwame.

    *faceplant*

  63. avatar
    Mike June 10, 2010 at 5:37 pm #

    mimi: Hey Doc,
    Tim wrote a book.Loren found it.http://books.google.com/books?id=tjofz31uTSkC&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22Stories+I%27ve+Finished+Before+I%27m+Dead%22&ei=D-kQTLaFBIbEywSqhsX1Cg&cd=1#v=onepage&q&f=falseOther PJ-ers found some information as well.

    Man, that’s some awful writing.

  64. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 10, 2010 at 5:39 pm #

    I love the reaction from people when I mention the originating source of this is Stormfront. I just had someone I went to school with remove me on facebook because he kept trying to say Obama wasn’t born here and I kept asking for what proof he has. Then he said Obama has 5 law firms hiding his birth certificate so I’m like Name them. Name the 5 law firms. Then he skipped to this article then got mad when I pointed out the article originated on Stormfront and then when I confronted him and asked why he is posting an article that originated from a White Supremecist group he got upset. I asked now what reason would a white supremecist group have for trying to delegitimize a black president. He then tried to claim I was calling him racist when I was questioning his source. So then I got called a drug addled fool who was brainwashed in public school.. He went to the same school as me.

  65. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 10, 2010 at 5:40 pm #

    Mike: Man, that’s some awful writing.

    Birthers and mental health issues? Really? Who would have thought that?

  66. avatar
    G June 10, 2010 at 5:42 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): So then I got called a drug addled fool who was brainwashed in public school.. He went to the same school as me.

    Hilarious! You’ve just got to love the excuses and empty insults these folks try to throw at you before they run away when you confront them with asking to explain their own actions. If you ask me, it just goes to show that they are nothing but hollow, empty people with hollow, empty words that they can’t back up.

  67. avatar
    misha June 10, 2010 at 6:10 pm #

    Mike: Man, that’s some awful writing.

    Fifth grade?

  68. avatar
    aarrgghh June 10, 2010 at 7:01 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): I love the reaction from people when I mention the originating source of this is Stormfront.I just had someone I went to school with remove me on facebook because he kept trying to say Obama wasn’t born here and I kept asking for what proof he has.Then he said Obama has 5 law firms hiding his birth certificate so I’m like Name them.Name the 5 law firms.Then he skipped to this article then got mad when I pointed out the article originated on Stormfront and then when I confronted him and asked why he is posting an article that originated from a White Supremecist group he got upset.I asked now what reason would a white supremecist group have for trying to delegitimize a black president.He then tried to claim I was calling him racist when I was questioning his source.So then I got called a drug addled fool who was brainwashed in public school..He went to the same school as me.

    some people just never learn to do their own homework

  69. avatar
    Scientist June 10, 2010 at 7:18 pm #

    Black Lion: All research findings posted on this page are tremendously important and would not be posted here unless deemed so as important.

    In my experience, when someone tells you multiple times how important what they’re saying is, it isn’t.

  70. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 10, 2010 at 7:25 pm #

    mimi : Tim wrote a book. Loren found it.

    Loren is a wonder at research.

  71. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 10, 2010 at 7:32 pm #

    aarrgghh:
    some people just never learn to do their own homework

    Hahahaha that’s too funny. We went to the same public school! Now he’s on freerepublic asking the question. Apparently he couldn’t find the answer and removed me on facebook. How cowardly. Oh so this was what he said:

    “I have better things to do than argue with pre-programmed Obamatrons. Have fun accepting the Mark of the Beast.” Too funny

  72. avatar
    DraggingCanoe June 10, 2010 at 7:38 pm #

    Ellid: I’ve tempted quite a bit in my life, and I can tell you right now that no state agency would let a bunch of temps near vital statistics databases.There’s far too much potential for identity theft and fraud.As for WND, anyone who would take them seriously as anything more than a propaganda site is even nuttier than Orly TaitzFinally, that Tim Adams of the non-existent title appears to be a graduate student goes along with him being a temp.He probably needed extra money and worked for about $8/hour, tops.Not precisely a good or credible source.

    Since when does making $8 an hour make one not a “good or credible source”.

  73. avatar
    Sef June 10, 2010 at 7:43 pm #

    DraggingCanoe:
    Since when does making $8 an hour make one not a “good or credible source”.

    It’s not the money. It’s the improbability that someone in that position would have the access he pretends to have had.

  74. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 10, 2010 at 7:51 pm #

    aarrgghh:
    some people just never learn to do their own homework

    Aww well my comment is in moderation at freeperville. I just love his title for the thread (assistance needed vanity)

    Here’s what I said doubt it will get through moderation:

    “Commander” Why don’t you tell the truth? I didn’t play the race card. I said the article you posted originated from Stormfront. Which is why that article was removed from this very site already. Freerepublic already made it a point not to be associated with such a racist site as Stormfront. I didn’t call you a racist. I said the source came from a white supremacist site. If you did your research instead of asking people on Freerepublic to do it for you. You would have known that. Now removing me was cowardly since you’re the one who originally sent me the facebook request. What’s this crap about public school brainwashing? We went to the same public school.

    Here is what I actually said to Commander: “[name deleted] ****** ****** I predicted you would jump on this wnd piece which by the way comes from Stormfront. You know them? The white supremacist site. Now tell me why white supremacists would want to discredit a black president? WND is not a credible site. I’ve written the editor several times regarding articles and instead of a retraction … See Morethey just changed the headline. Mr Adams is a student who was a temp in the elections department. He originally claimed he was Chief Elections Clerk except there’s no such thing, now he’s a senior elections clerk. A temp would not be given responsibility and if you pay attention the article he does not say he had access to the necessary documents. Why do you jump on articles without checking their veracity? The COLB is a valid document issues by Hawaiian officials and vouched by the Hawaiian DOH”

    Then you accused me of calling you racist and a drug addled fool. Now I don’t know where you learned to debate but obviously it wasn’t in our classes because we were taught civility and not to insult the other side when you can’t win.

  75. avatar
    Scientist June 10, 2010 at 7:53 pm #

    DraggingCanoe: Since when does making $8 an hour make one not a “good or credible source”.

    The agency the guy claimed to work for doesn’t keep birth records.

  76. avatar
    katahdin June 10, 2010 at 7:58 pm #

    DraggingCanoe: Since when does making $8 an hour make one not a “good or credible source”.

    People making $8.00 an hour don’t usually have access to confidential information.

  77. avatar
    G June 10, 2010 at 7:58 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    G I cross referenced Party Unity My Ass with Sally Hillhttp://www.hillarynme.com/2009/07/22/msnbc-makes-a-mockery-of-obama-birth-certificate-coverage-lies-to-the-american-public/There she is at HillarynmePhoenix new timeshttp://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2009/08/kfyis_barry_markson_eats_birth.phpI’m sure if I dig harder I’ll find more.She makes a point not to ever be consistent.On these sites she claims she believes he was born in Hawaii but remember now here she has a problem with filing and received and the colb being valid.

    Good finds, Bob, thanks! I took a look through both of them.

    Well, hillarynme.com is definitely a super sad-sack PUMA birther site, that’s for sure. However, just because birther Sally Hill (aka Scott Brown) posted that one comment there (that has been found so far), that is not enough evidence yet for me to conclude she was a PUMA herself. I’m sure more such evidence will turn up. My suspicion, based only on recollection, is that she did frequent PUMA sites, but I’ll still leave that as only my suspicion based on the evidence to date.

    The other site you linked to for the Phoenix News times, was not a PUMA site, but was an excellent article in and of itself, about a huge birther smack down by a local conservative fill-in talk show host. I recommend to everyone reading that article over there. Good entertaining stuff! And excellent commentary by “lawdog” in the comments section.

    However, despite all her protestations otherwise, your two findings in this post alone (along with the other sites you already provided) is conclusive proof that “Scott Brown” aka “Sally Hill” is definitely a full-on hard-core birther and has been for some time.

    As you mentioned, in these two posts, she very much concedes that Obama is born in HI and that the COLB doesn’t matter. Those arguments are clearly of the pure “Vattel” dual-allegiance birther persuasion. So, I suspect she was a D’Onofrio acolyte from how they read.

    What is interesting is how she was quite adamant that Obama is an Usurper no matter what and that she also went off on some sort of bizarre Kenya/Sharia Law tanget in some weird made up story she tries to tie to Obama. Just further confirmation that she is hard-core birther, only posing as a concern troll, but with her mind solidly determined to find him an “usurper” no matter what.

    So, as you also pointed out, it makes all of her statements here asking for details about the HI COLB even more suspect and suspicious. If she claims that she “believes” he was born in HI and her arguments are that his place of birth doesn’t matter, than why does she bother or care about all these questions she makes over here about the COLB? A very inconsistent position, indeed. Of course, we know that she really doesn’t care about answers to any of these issues. Her whole agenda is to spread the birther lies and try to sow doubt about purely legitimate things.

    For those who are interested about what we’re referring to, here are her own words from those sources (listed in order, as per the links above):

    #5 by Sally Hill on July 23rd, 2009

    Bottom line – it makes NO DIFFERENCE where Obama was born. What matters is the citizenship of his parents. 1 was a US Citizen and 1 was a British Subject – giving Obama dual-citizenship AT BIRTH, making him ineligible to legally be POTUS. He is an usurper. Period – End of Argument!

    Friday, Aug. 7 2009 @ 8:54AM

    Sally HIll says:
    No BC is necessary.
    Obama said he was born in Hawaii – and I believe him.
    Obama said he was born with governance by British Law – and I believe him.
    Obama stated in a speech that he is a Citizen of the World – and I believe him.
    How can a self-proclaimed Citizen of the World (one who pledges NO allegience to ANY nation) governed at birth by British Law, be a natural born citizen of the US?

    Some say his British citizenship expired on his 21st birthday…but that SHOULDN’T have to happen…there should be NO doubt as to his citizenship at birth or at age 21. If he was a natural born citizen there would be NO other citizenship than that of US citizenship.

    You can poopoo this issue and say – he is as American and you and I. But then, my response to that is…I’ve never travelled to Kenya (the land of his father) to campaign for a paternal relative who happens to believe in Sharia Law. I wouldn’t do that, because as a Natural Born Citizen, both my maternal and paternal parents are US Citizens – so my allegience is simple and without question – United States.
    You can poopoo this issue and say – well, he wasn’t acting out of loyalty to his father. But then my response to that is….perhaps then he believes in the very Un-American ideal of Sharia Law as evidenced by his appointment of Harold Koh as a legal advisor. Koh not only believes in Sharia Law, but also the very Un-American ideal of TRansnationalism. If you don’t REALLY know what these terms mean – I would invite you to look them up.
    So….can be we 100% certain, given not only the facts (Kenyan father), confession (Citizen of the World) and Obama’s own actions (travelling to Kenyna) that he has one and only one allegience – that of the United States?
    The unfortunate answer to that is no. He may be as American as Apple Pie and as pure as the driven snow – but by his own heritage, words, and actions we have no way to know that 100%.
    I believe Obama – do you?

  78. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 10, 2010 at 8:12 pm #

    Actually G depending on google I didn’t really look around the rest of the puma site for more of her comments. That was like 2 pages in of google. If I looked harder I’m sure I could find more

  79. avatar
    richCares June 10, 2010 at 8:39 pm #

    Let me get this straight, Stormfront highlights a racist bigot that claims he worked as Chief of Elections in Hawaii and has proof that Obama was not born in Hawaii and Dragging Canoe falls for it. During Tim’s temp work on elections he had no access to voting records of Obama who was voting in Chicago at the time (and most likely never registered in Hawaii). The Elections Office has no access to birth information records or voting records from Chicago. Many voters in Hawaii were not born in Hawaii (me for example). How quickly birthers fall for such a shaky story is really amazing. Dr. C, please put up a paypal button so we can take advantage of these suckers.

  80. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 10, 2010 at 8:59 pm #

    James: Great article by WND.Could this Tim Adams be the DeepThroat that Phil Berg has been always hoping for?They need get Tim Adams to LTC Terry Lakin and determine what he knows.However, the Adam’s story does make some sense since we have NEVER seen Obama’s long-form BC.As Phil Berg has always contended, if Obama does indeed have a long-form BC, we would have seen it by now.Indeed, the State of Hawaii is lying we they say they have Obama’s original vital records.Most take the orginal vital records to be the long-form BC.I think it is safe to assume that the State does not have the long-form BC of Obama or we would seen it by now and it remains in question on just what the original vital record really is.

    I always thought Jeff Gannon was the deepthroat the right was looking for

  81. avatar
    JoZeppy June 10, 2010 at 9:23 pm #

    DraggingCanoe: Since when does making $8 an hour make one not a “good or credible source”.

    Well, as others have said, they usually don’t get access to sensitive information

    And I suppose you can add to it, he never claims to have had access to vital records

    And did I forget to mention, he never claims to have looked at any of President Obama’s records

    Oh…and he never claims anyone in his office had access to President Obama’s vital records

    And finally, the source of his knowledge on this subject is hearsay.

    Then, of course, you his WND interview, and see him repeat just about every disproven birther claim….and well…if you really are gulible enough to belive it…perhaps you should be working as a temp for $8 an hour somewhere.

  82. avatar
    Southpaw June 10, 2010 at 10:43 pm #

    The source of the audio is a radio show. http://www.thepoliticalcesspool.org

    The Stormfront.org is just in the youtube video that was posted.

  83. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 10, 2010 at 10:48 pm #

    JoZeppy: Well, as others have said, they usually don’t get access to sensitive information

    That is one of the things that struck me as oddest in the Tim Adams story, his claim that they had access to the “Social Security system”. As someone who marched into a Social Security office with a power of attorney and my father’s birth certificate to get a bad date of birth fixed, only to be met with a stone wall of silence and as some whom has actually worked on electronic interfaces to Social Security, I can tell you that nobody in a county or municipal government office is going to get access to browse the “Social Security system.” The best anybody gets is verification: you send them a Social Security number, a name and a date of birth, and they say Yes or No. And they don’t give you many guesses. Nobody is going to type in Obama’s name and find out whether he has a birth certificate in Hawaii or not.

  84. avatar
    Bovril June 10, 2010 at 10:48 pm #

    DraggingCanoe: Since when does making $8 an hour make one not a “good or credible source”.

    Dear Dragging Ass

    To re-iterate the above,

    $8 per hour denotes not a level of capacity, expertise or capability but a fundamental one of access.

    As an Info Sec Professional I can tell you with a high degree of certainty that temp, seasonal checkers of data have very very very limited acccess to core data.

    Using the generic principles of CIA (not spooky Industrial-Military Combine spy agency but Confidentiality, Integrity and Availibility) a temp, non background checked checklist muppet has next to zero access.

    What ACTUALLY happens is they will be given access to a consolidated front end that will (on their behalf) interrogate various databases and print out a Go/No Go that has to be referred to an individual further up the management stack. They (permanent members of management) will then request further investigation which again will be masked such that PII (personally identifiable Information) will be interrogated without the underlying data beinmg directly exposed.

    As an example

    “Boss….I had they system kick back Bubba Jones the 3rd as a possible non resident”

    “Really Sally? Put the request to review into my queue and I’ll check”

    “Run check “Bubba Jones the 3rd” and/or “Bubba Jones 3rd” and/or “Bubba Jones III” and/or “Bubba**Jones*”

    “bugger that’s a long report”

    “Based on result + address + Electoral Register Record = 1”

    “Vote + Good”

    At no point has the checker had access to the raw data, the QUERY has, in a read only fashion checked the data”

  85. avatar
    aarrgghh June 10, 2010 at 11:14 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Aww well my comment is in moderation at freeperville.I just love his title for the thread (assistance needed vanity)Here’s what I said doubt it will get through moderation:“Commander” Why don’t you tell the truth?I didn’t play the race card.I said the article you posted originated from Stormfront.Which is why that article was removed from this very site already.Freerepublic already made it a point not to be associated with such a racist site as Stormfront.I didn’t call you a racist.I said the source came from a white supremacist site.If you did your research instead of asking people on Freerepublic to do it for you.You would have known that.Now removing me was cowardly since you’re the one who originally sent me the facebook request.What’s this crap about public school brainwashing?We went to the same public school.Here is what I actually said to Commander: “[name deleted] ****** ****** I predicted you would jump on this wnd piece which by the way comes from Stormfront. You know them? The white supremacist site. Now tell me why white supremacists would want to discredit a black president? WND is not a credible site. I’ve written the editor several times regarding articles and instead of a retraction … See Morethey just changed the headline. Mr Adams is a student who was a temp in the elections department. He originally claimed he was Chief Elections Clerk except there’s no such thing, now he’s a senior elections clerk. A temp would not be given responsibility and if you pay attention the article he does not say he had access to the necessary documents. Why do you jump on articles without checking their veracity? The COLB is a valid document issues by Hawaiian officials and vouched by the Hawaiian DOH”Then you accused me of calling you racist and a drug addled fool.Now I don’t know where you learned to debate but obviously it wasn’t in our classes because we were taught civility and not to insult the other side when you can’t win.

    your comment is now live.

  86. avatar
    J. Edward Tremlett June 11, 2010 at 1:48 am #

    Ah, Stormfront. One of my proudest moments was when an article I wrote about the BNP winning in the Brit polls, and how they were still a White Separatist organization, was highlighted on their board. I got all kinds of interesting “complements” and a veiled death threat or two. Good times. 🙂

  87. avatar
    G June 11, 2010 at 2:37 am #

    Bovril: As an Info Sec Professional I can tell you with a high degree of certainty that temp, seasonal checkers of data have very very very limited acccess to core data.

    Hey Bovril, are you a CISSP by any chance?

  88. avatar
    Jules June 11, 2010 at 4:50 am #

    Southpaw: The source of the audio is a radio show.http://www.thepoliticalcesspool.orgThe Stormfront.org is just in the youtube video that was posted.

    The website that you link has a logo indicating an affiliation with the Council of Conservative Citizens, an organisation that is described by most reasonable observers as racist in light of such views as opposition to interracial marriage.

    Some of the other organisations sponsoring the Political Cesspol appear to be similarly racist. The League of American Patriots, for example, restricts its membership to “adult heterosexual men and women who are entirely of European Christian ancestry”.

    The Political Cesspool’s own statement of principles expresses the desire to “to grow the percentage of Whites in the world relative to other races”.

  89. avatar
    Bovril June 11, 2010 at 5:58 am #

    G: Hey Bovril, are you a CISSP by any chance?

    Yep plus I periiodically sit on the ISC2 exam review board that reviews the question pool

  90. avatar
    HORUS June 11, 2010 at 10:23 am #

    None of this Birth Certificate BS matters anyway, since Obama’s mother was an American Citizen at his birth he is automatically an NBC, no matter where in the world he was born!

  91. avatar
    misha June 11, 2010 at 10:35 am #

    HORUS: None of this Birth Certificate BS matters anyway, since Obama’s mother was an American Citizen at his birth he is automatically an NBC, no matter where in the world he was born!

    I have thoroughly debunked the born in Kenya scenario.

    Denialists love to throw around the age requirement in 1961, and that Ann Dunham did not meet it. In fact, Obama Sr was married to a village woman, so his marriage to Ann was invalid – thus making the age requirement moot. So yes, Obama is NBC no matter where in the world he was born. The requirement is NBC, not born on US soil.

  92. avatar
    Slartibartfast June 11, 2010 at 11:05 am #

    G: Boy, these folks really have the intellect of silly putty

    As a fan of silly putty from way back, I demand that you retract this viscous slur!

  93. avatar
    misha June 11, 2010 at 11:08 am #

    G: Boy, these folks really have the intellect of silly putty

    I’m sorry you had such a sad childhood. Personally, I loved the stuff.

  94. avatar
    yguy June 11, 2010 at 3:54 pm #

    misha:
    In fact, Obama Sr was married to a village woman, so his marriage to Ann was invalid – thus making the age requirement moot.

    What does marital status have to do with the criteria specified in 8USC1401(g)?

  95. avatar
    G June 11, 2010 at 3:59 pm #

    Bovril:
    Yep plus I periiodically sit on the ISC2 exam review board that reviews the question pool

    Awesome & major props to you, as that is one of the most respected and high-end specialized designations in IT!

    Just curious – I’m sure you probably are familiar with some of the CISSP’s out here in Ohio? The CISSP community, at least out here, is fairly “tight”, particularly as they’ve really shrunk in numbers, due to the impact of the recession. Many of the CISSPs here have had to leave the state, unfortunately, to find work. It is a sad situation.

    However, I’ve got a good friend who is one of those that still remain. I’m actually using him for some part time CISSP work on one of my projects right now. That would be funny if we both knew the same people.

  96. avatar
    misha June 11, 2010 at 4:00 pm #

    yguy: What does marital status have to do with the criteria specified in 8USC1401(g)?

    Because she was not married, giving birth anywhere in the world makes her child NBC. The age/years requirement is moot in out of wedlock birth. So the argument advanced by Berg is nullified.

    Doesn’t matter: Obama was born in Honolulu. It’s just that the Denialists arguments are falling apart.

  97. avatar
    G June 11, 2010 at 4:06 pm #

    misha: G: Boy, these folks really have the intellect of silly puttyI’m sorry you had such a sad childhood. Personally, I loved the stuff.

    Misha, I don’t understand your quote or why you are attacking my childhood, which you know nothing about.

    I never said I didn’t like silly putty. I loved playing with the stuff as a kid too – especially getting the images off of the Sunday funnies & stretching them.

    I said that these birther folks have the intellect of silly putty. That means their minds are quite malleable and that they are not too bright.

    Please go back to being funny instead of making uncalled for and unwarranted cheap personal attacks.

  98. avatar
    yguy June 11, 2010 at 4:07 pm #

    misha:
    Because she was not married, giving birth anywhere in the world makes her child NBC.

    Cite, please.

  99. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 11, 2010 at 4:08 pm #

    aarrgghh: your comment is now live.

    I can’t access it from where I’m at. Anyone have a cliffnotes version of “Commander’s” response?

  100. avatar
    misha June 11, 2010 at 4:24 pm #

    G: Please go back to being funny instead of making uncalled for and unwarranted cheap personal attacks.

    My mother once told me “your jokes are too subtle.” You have to realize I was raised on Monty Python AND the Borscht Belt. What a combination. When I worked in Arlington, VA we had a staff meeting, and each person was asked to stand and give a corrective criticism. I stood up and said “I confess I have not done enough for socialism.”

    The GM, from Germany, literally put her face in her palm. She said to “I’m never going to call on you again.”

    I just flew in from DC, and boy, are my arms tired.

    A horse walked into a bar. The bartender said “why the long face?” The horse replied, “if you were a horse, you’d have a long face too.”

  101. avatar
    misha June 11, 2010 at 4:27 pm #

    yguy: Cite, please.

    OK, right here.

  102. avatar
    Scientist June 11, 2010 at 4:28 pm #

    yguy: Because she was not married, giving birth anywhere in the world makes her child NBC.
    Cite, please.

    It’s the law now and it was the law in 1961. An unmarried US citizen mother passes birthright citizenship regardless of where the child was born. The 0-70 team just lost another one. Don’t you have something better to do than keep losing?

  103. avatar
    yguy June 11, 2010 at 4:33 pm #

    misha:
    OK, right here.

    I meant a cite from applicable law – which AFAIK is contained in Title 8 of the USC. Or if you have something you think supersedes that, then cite it.

  104. avatar
    yguy June 11, 2010 at 4:34 pm #

    Scientist:
    It’s the law now and it was the law in 1961.

    Then cite it.

  105. avatar
    misha June 11, 2010 at 4:43 pm #

    yguy: Then cite it.

    OK, here’s an expert authority.

  106. avatar
    Bovril June 11, 2010 at 4:52 pm #

    Oooooo fun,

    Yguy and the irrelevant law misquotes has returned….Oy muppet, still waiting for you to answer my Birfer idiocy premises over at Talk Rational.

    I know you can’t actually rebut the FACTS about Obama but it would be fun to see you try.

  107. avatar
    Scientist June 11, 2010 at 5:02 pm #

    yguy: Then cite it.

    Why don’t you cite this? Cite me a judge who says Barack Obama is not eligible to be President It can be a federal judge, state judge-even a traffic court judge. Go on. Waiting, waiting…

  108. avatar
    G June 11, 2010 at 5:03 pm #

    misha:
    My mother once told me “your jokes are too subtle.” You have to realize I was raised on Monty Python AND the Borscht Belt. What a combination. When I worked in Arlington, VA we had a staff meeting, and each person was asked to stand and give a corrective criticism. I stood up and said “I confess I have not done enough for socialism.”The GM, from Germany, literally put her face in her palm. She said to “I’m never going to call on you again.”I just flew in from DC, and boy, are my arms tired.A horse walked into a bar. The bartender said “why the long face?” The horse replied, “if you were a horse, you’d have a long face too.”

    Yeah, that one must have been to subtle to catch as a joke…even now. I totally love jokes and I’m a huge fan of Monty Python, but I’m still totally am missing the reference of where “sorry you had such a sad childhood” comes from.

    So, no, unfortunately it came across as an out of nowhere and unwarranted personal attack and not as intended humor at all.

    However, Slartibartfast’s joke above yours was real easy to understand and realize it was humor. That one did make me laugh:

    Slartibartfast: As a fan of silly putty from way back, I demand that you retract this viscous slur!

    Realize that verbal inflection does not carry across keyboards well and therefore, you can tend to misrepresent yourself at times.

    But glad to know it was a joke. Hopefully you’ll clue me into the reference, so I can laugh with you.

  109. avatar
    misha June 11, 2010 at 5:14 pm #

    “Realize that verbal inflection does not carry across keyboards well and therefore, you can tend to misrepresent yourself at times.”

    Oops – a Yiddish accent does not carry over the ‘net. And I know the authentic accent, too. My mother and her father and mother talked exclusively in Yiddish to each other.

    So, you like Silly Putty? Did you see “Sleeper,” when Woody Allen had a nose made of Silly Putty, and threw it under a steam roller?

    Of course it was a joke. Do you ever read me as anything other than a court jester? My mother, aleha ha-shalom, used to watch my cat sharing my cereal and milk. “Stop it!! You’re making me sick.” I, of course, would encourage the cat even more.

  110. avatar
    yguy June 11, 2010 at 5:16 pm #

    misha:
    OK, here’san expert authority.

    Scientist:
    Why don’t you cite this?

    IOW, neither of you know what the hell you’re talking about. What a surprise.

  111. avatar
    J. Edward Tremlett June 11, 2010 at 5:19 pm #

    Slartibartfast: As a fan of silly putty from way back, I demand that you retract this viscous slur!

    OOOOOOOOOO. Bad pun.

  112. avatar
    misha June 11, 2010 at 5:28 pm #

    G: you know why my childhood was so funny? OK, I’ll tell you. I kept a tank of nitrous oxide in my room.

    Just kidding – my childhood was so funny because I lived above a nightclub. No, we lived in a single family house on the prairie. We were the only Jewish family for hundreds of miles. Neighbors used to ride over in their wagons. “So,” they would say. “I hear you people can make a joke out of everything.”

    “Yes,” my grandfather would reply. “Give me a f’instance.”

    “Tell me about Eisenhower.”

    “OK. He was schtupping that Kay Summersby.” The neighbors, good Republicans, would leave agahst.

    Nah, I’m joking. We lived in NYC, where my grandfather did well during the Depression by giving up being a rabbi, and became a bootlegger. That one is true.

  113. avatar
    misha June 11, 2010 at 5:36 pm #

    yguy: IOW, neither of you know what the hell you’re talking about. What a surprise.

    Ask me anything about physics. Or Samuel Taylor Coleridge. Or Monty Python.

    Hey, what’s the airspeed velocity of an unladen European Swallow? Bet you don’t know.

  114. avatar
    nbc June 11, 2010 at 5:36 pm #

    Scientist:
    It’s the law now and it was the law in 1961.An unmarried US citizen mother passes birthright citizenship regardless of where the child was born.The 0-70 team just lost another one. Don’t you have something better to do than keep losing?

    It may not make the person a natural born but rather a naturalized at birth citizen.

  115. avatar
    misha June 11, 2010 at 5:39 pm #

    nbc: It may not make the person a natural born but rather a naturalized at birth citizen.

    As opposed to artificial? I always look at the label.

  116. avatar
    BatGuano June 11, 2010 at 5:49 pm #

    nbc:
    It may not make the person a natural born but rather a naturalized at birth citizen.

    can you show us any example of a person ” naturalized at birth ” ?

  117. avatar
    misha June 11, 2010 at 5:51 pm #

    BatGuano: can you show us any example of a person ” naturalized at birth ” ?

    John McCain. Har har.

  118. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 11, 2010 at 6:00 pm #

    yguy: What does marital status have to do with the criteria specified in 8USC1401(g)?

    Look at paragraph (c).

    [Edited by Doc C: The reference to paragraph (c) refers to 8 U.S.C. 1409 not 1401.]

  119. avatar
    yguy June 11, 2010 at 6:07 pm #

    misha:
    Ask me anything about physics. Or Samuel Taylor Coleridge. Or Monty Python.Hey, what’s the airspeed velocity of an unladen European Swallow? Bet you don’t know.

    Ooooooh, a wiseguy, huh?

    :poke to the eyes:

  120. avatar
    yguy June 11, 2010 at 6:19 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Look at paragraph (c).

    (c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying
    possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United
    States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or
    one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;

    You lost me.

  121. avatar
    Scientist June 11, 2010 at 6:23 pm #

    nbc: It may not make the person a natural born but rather a naturalized at birth citizen.

    A distinction without a difference, You can say I’m speeding if I go 56 in a 55 zone, but I bet you I won’t get a ticket.

  122. avatar
    Scientist June 11, 2010 at 6:44 pm #

    yguy: IOW, neither of you know what the hell you’re talking about. What a surprise.

    You know, when the coach of the team that is 0-70 criticizes the coach of the team that is 70-0, he sounds very silly.

  123. avatar
    Greg June 11, 2010 at 7:01 pm #

    yguy: Scientist:
    It’s the law now and it was the law in 1961.

    Then cite it.

    “Under the 1940 Act, if the mother of the child born abroad out of wedlock held United States citizenship and previously had resided in the country or in a United States possession, the child gained the mother’s nationality from birth, provided the child’s paternity was not established by legitimation or a court order. …

    Subsequent legislation retained the gender lines drawn in the 1940 Act. The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 made only one significant change regarding the citizenship of children born abroad out of wedlock. It removed the provision that a mother could pass on her nationality to her child only if the paternity of the child had not been established.4 Immigration and Nationality Act, §309, 66 Stat. 238—239. In 1986, however, Congress added further gender-based differentials. …”

    Miller v. Albright, J. Ginsburg dissent (1998)

  124. avatar
    misha June 11, 2010 at 7:09 pm #

    As I stated in my article, Obama Sr was already married, when he married Ann Dunham. Bigamy and polygamy is illegal in the States, so their marriage was in fact invalid.

    Another one bites the dust.

  125. avatar
    Greg June 11, 2010 at 7:14 pm #

    misha: As I stated in my article, Obama Sr was already married, when he married Ann Dunham. Bigamy and polygamy is illegal in the States, so their marriage was in fact invalid.

    Well, it depends on the laws of the various jurisdictions. Many (most?) states consider the children of a marriage voided on grounds of polygamy to be, nonetheless, legitimate as if they were born in a legitimate marriage.

    I haven’t done any further research on when this view came into existence and whether it would have been in operation in 1961, except I think I quoted the BNA to show that it was the law of Britain then.

  126. avatar
    nbc June 11, 2010 at 7:20 pm #

    BatGuano:
    can you show us any example of a person ” naturalized at birth ” ?

    Anyone not born on US territory or naturalized in the US.

  127. avatar
    nbc June 11, 2010 at 7:23 pm #

    Afroyim v Rusk

  128. avatar
    nbc June 11, 2010 at 7:24 pm #

    Rogers v Belei

  129. avatar
    yguy June 11, 2010 at 8:12 pm #

    Greg:
    “Under the 1940 Act, if the mother of the child born abroad out of wedlock held United States citizenship and previously had resided in the country or in a United States possession, the child gained the mother’s nationality from birth, provided the child’s paternity was not established by legitimation or a court order. …

    Subsequent legislation retained the gender lines drawn in the 1940 Act. The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 made only one significant change regarding the citizenship of children born abroad out of wedlock. It removed the provision that a mother could pass on her nationality to her child only if the paternity of the child had not been established.”

    Sounds rather like 8USC1401(g), under which Dunham could not have passed on citizenship to Obama had he been foreign born, as she was not old enough to have met the residency requirements as they stood in 1961.

  130. avatar
    Slartibartfast June 11, 2010 at 8:19 pm #

    yguy: Sounds rather like 8USC1401(g), under which Dunham could not have passed on citizenship to Obama had he been foreign born, as she was not old enough to have met the residency requirements as they stood in 1961.

    Except that under this provision, Doctor Dunham DID meet the residency requirements…

  131. avatar
    nbc June 11, 2010 at 8:23 pm #

    Was FDR a natural born citizen?

  132. avatar
    nbc June 11, 2010 at 8:25 pm #

    Slartibartfast:
    Except that under this provision, Doctor Dunham DID meet the residency requirements…

    Under the provision in place at that time, Dunham would meet the residency requirement if she were not legally married to Obama Sr.

  133. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 11, 2010 at 8:29 pm #

    yguy: (c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;You lost me.

    Sorry, I meant paragraph (c) of Section 309.

    (c) Notwithstanding the provision of subsection (a) of this section, a person born, after December 23, 1952, outside the United States and out of wedlock shall be held to have acquired at birth the nationality status of his mother, if the mother had the nationality of the United States at the time of such person’s birth, and if the mother had previously been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year.

    http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-29/0-0-0-9757.html

  134. avatar
    yguy June 11, 2010 at 10:00 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Sorry, I meant paragraph (c) of Section 309.

    Interesting. That suggests a motive for lying about his birthplace, since it is likely his candidacy would have been far more effectively challenged in court than it was, and less likely that he would even have been elected, had he admitted to being foreign born.

  135. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 11, 2010 at 11:10 pm #

    yguy: That suggests a motive for lying about his birthplace, since it is likely his candidacy would have been far more effectively challenged in court than it was, and less likely that he would even have been elected, had he admitted to being foreign born.

    I have it on good authority that Barack Obama was not foreign born. But when you use the phrase “more effectively challenged”, it reminds me of a word game I played once. It started with the word “neutral” and then we took turns coming up with slightly more negative words. It was an interesting game, and the word that won, by mutual agreement, was “abysmal”. Comparing the effectiveness of the current eligibility challenge cases with the hypothetical one you mentioned and calling one “more effective” is comparing “abysmal” with the runner up in my game.

  136. avatar
    Scientist June 12, 2010 at 7:53 am #

    yguy: That suggests a motive for lying about his birthplace,

    Actually there is every motive for a candidate to be truthful about his birthplace. John McCain admitted he was not born in the US and won the Republican primary easily and did as well in the general election as any Republican could have expected to in 2008. For all that some claim to care, there is no evidence from the polls that the voters ever took much interest in where either McCain or Obama was born. On the other hand, being caught in an obvious lie would likely hurt a candidate quite significantly.

  137. avatar
    Greg June 12, 2010 at 8:03 am #

    yguy: Sounds rather like 8USC1401(g), under which Dunham could not have passed on citizenship to Obama had he been foreign born, as she was not old enough to have met the residency requirements as they stood in 1961.

    Close is only effective in horseshoes and hand-grenades. It’s very ineffective in the law. The case I cited was not about married women, nor was the law it referenced.

  138. avatar
    Mike June 12, 2010 at 8:46 am #

    Greg: Close is only effective in horseshoes and hand-grenades.

    Oh, I am so stealing that phrase.

  139. avatar
    yguy June 12, 2010 at 11:45 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Comparing the effectiveness of the current eligibility challenge cases with the hypothetical one you mentioned and calling one “more effective” is comparing “abysmal” with the runner up in my game.

    Unless you are far more sanguine than I about the possibility of a court taking an unsourced claim in a WaPo article as self-authenticating, I can only assume you have more compelling evidence that BHO Sr. was already in wedlock when he and Dunham were pronounced husband and wife. So let’s see it.

  140. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 12, 2010 at 12:22 pm #

    yguy: I can only assume you have more compelling evidence that BHO Sr. was already in wedlock when he and Dunham were pronounced husband and wife. So let’s see it.

    Well there is Obama’s half brother Roy born in 1958 and half-sister Auma born in 1960. Do they count as “evidence”? The testimony of his first wife, however, is clearly admissible in court. Here is an interview with her in The Standard, a newspaper in Nairobi, Kenya.

    http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=1143999026&cid=

    But in keeping with the Luo customs, Obama Senior sought her consent to take another wife, which she granted.

    Keziah says she was happy to have a co-wife, and her husband kept her updated. He informed her when Barack Obama Junior was born.

  141. avatar
    yguy June 12, 2010 at 2:12 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Well there is Obama’s half brother Roy born in 1958 and half-sister Auma born in 1960. Do they count as “evidence”?Here’s the source from The Standard, a newspaper in Nairobi, Kenya.http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=1143999026&cid=

    Assuming none of this could be effectively challenged in court, he would still be the first candidate ever to qualify under the NBC clause by reason of illegitimate birth, AFAIK. That wouldn’t play nearly as well in Peoria as being Hawaiian born, so the motive for mendacity on this point remains.

  142. avatar
    J. Edward Tremlett June 12, 2010 at 2:45 pm #

    yguy: Assuming none of this could be effectively challenged in court, he would still be the first candidate ever to qualify under the NBC clause by reason of illegitimate birth, AFAIK. That wouldn’t play nearly as well in Peoria as being Hawaiian born, so the motive for mendacity on this point remains.

    That is REALLY clutching at straws.

    Why don’t you just give up? There are much better hobbies. I hear bottle cap collecting is making a comeback.

  143. avatar
    yguy June 12, 2010 at 3:44 pm #

    J. Edward Tremlett:
    That is REALLY clutching at straws.

    How is stating objective realities equivalent to clutching at straws?

  144. avatar
    Bovril June 12, 2010 at 4:09 pm #

    Goalpost…..Meet new location….

    As usual with Yguy, not simply here but at other sites, raises issues that have no relevance to his core belief, then refuses to elucidate their relevance.

    Peoria was fully aware of Obama’s family background, fathers status etc via press, book, advertisments, town hall meetings egtc etc and guess what IT DID PLAY WELL IN PEORIA and most of the rest of the USA. The numbers do not lie .

    Based on your own words you now accept that Obama is a full NBC and as such is fully and legitimately the POTUS, you just think it “icky” that he might be a bastard.

    A status which has bugger all to do with NBC status, n’est ce pas…?

  145. avatar
    Greg June 12, 2010 at 4:20 pm #

    yguy: That wouldn’t play nearly as well in Peoria as being Hawaiian born, so the motive for mendacity on this point remains.

    If he’d murdered someone and assumed their identity, that would be a motive to lie.

    But he didn’t.

    As my father use to tell me, “If ‘ifs’ and ‘buts’ were candies and nuts, Obama would still have been born in Hawaii!”

  146. avatar
    Scientist June 12, 2010 at 4:52 pm #

    yguy: How is stating objective realities equivalent to clutching at straws?

    OK, then show some polling data that any significant fraction of the voting public would consider whether a candidates parents were legally married a significant factor in deciding their votes. The polls I’ve seen where people are asked what they see as major issues show things like: the economy, jobs, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the deficit, gridlock in Washington. You know, stuff that really matters to people’s lives….

    In fact, I challenge you to show a scientific poll where people are asked to name the issues they consider important where anything to do with the President’s birth makes the top 20.

  147. avatar
    misha June 12, 2010 at 6:40 pm #

    yguy: he would still be the first candidate ever to qualify under the NBC clause by reason of illegitimate birth, AFAIK. That wouldn’t play nearly as well in Peoria as being Hawaiian born

    My wife and I lived together for 2 years, before we married – and my mother lived in the house along with us. Half of births today, are to unmarried mothers.

    So what.

  148. avatar
    nbC June 12, 2010 at 7:25 pm #

    misha: My wife and I lived together for 2 years, before we married – and my mother lived in the house along with us. Half of births today, are to unmarried mothers.

    I see nothing wrong with that. Marriage is highly overrated in this country with high divorce rates. I prefer lasting relationships over those of convenience…

  149. avatar
    misha June 12, 2010 at 7:43 pm #

    nbC: I see nothing wrong with that. Marriage is highly overrated in this country with high divorce rates. I prefer lasting relationships over those of convenience…

    I know one gay couple who have been together almost 30 years, of their own volition. That’s better than most straight couples.

  150. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 12, 2010 at 10:10 pm #

    yguy: he [Obama] would still be the first candidate ever to qualify under the NBC clause by reason of illegitimate birth, AFAIK. That wouldn’t play nearly as well in Peoria as being Hawaiian born.

    Very good point! Such a thing would definitely have lost Obama the right-wing evangelical Christians vote. 👿

  151. avatar
    Sef June 12, 2010 at 11:22 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Very good point! Such a thing would definitely have lost Obama the right-wing evangelical Christians vote.

    What, both of them?

  152. avatar
    yguy June 13, 2010 at 10:35 am #

    Bovril: Peoria was fully aware of Obama’s family background, fathers status etc via press,

    I don’t know who the hell you think you’re kidding, since no less a personage than Tom Brokaw declared just a few days before the election that we didn’t know much about him – which of course was no accident, since the establishment media had no greater purpose than to cast him in the best possible light.

    Based on your own words you now accept that Obama is a full NBC

    As usual, your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired.

  153. avatar
    Scientist June 13, 2010 at 10:54 am #

    yguy-Let’s see the polling data that shows that the voters care whether a candidate’s parents were married. Surely you wouldn’t come here making assertions unsupported by facts, would you?

  154. avatar
    Bovril June 13, 2010 at 12:12 pm #

    As usual ypou have failed to provide a shred of ACTUAL evidence to support any of your theses.

    I see you have, as always yet to actually answer my points, simply making ad-hominem attacks and inserting irrelevant and unsubstantiated cack.

    Come monkey dance, show us a fact, related to this, come on you can, can’t you…?

    You know….case law, relevant cites, SC rulings, statutes in force….. ANYTHING….

  155. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 13, 2010 at 6:19 pm #

    aarrgghh:
    your comment is now live.

    So I went back to check and sure enough in true form my post has been removed from Freeperland and I have been banned from posting. So after a whole one post where I called someone out I get banned from there. Funny. Also I find it entertaining when I’m debating someone who is not orly taitz and I called her bat**** insane somehow that’s not being civil to the other person I’m debating. Too funny

  156. avatar
    James June 16, 2010 at 7:23 pm #

    In recent days, due to Tim Adam’s claim, these statutes might explain what happen. We now know that there is no long-form BC (hospital BC) for Obama according to Tim Adams. Tim Adams has also said that others know exactly what he knows (or was told) but are not coming forward for fear of losing their jobs. If Obama had a long-form BC WE WOULD HAVE SEE BY NOW. In a recent interview, I think a statement from Maj. Gen. Paul E. Vallely puts its best:

    “There is no proof that I’ve seen that he was born in Honolulu, because the copy of the alleged birth record certainly doesn’t list any witnesses or the doctor who delivered him, and there’s no record that anyone knows he was born there. In fact, it appears that his mother or his grandparents somehow tried to make it a matter of record that he was born in Hawaii to make him a U.S. citizen.’

  157. avatar
    Expelliarmus June 16, 2010 at 7:53 pm #

    James: We now know that there is no long-form BC (hospital BC) for Obama according to Tim Adams.

    Adams never said that. What we know from Adams (if we believe him), is that the long firm BC is not in the position of the Hawaii elections department. It probably isn’t being keep over at the Parks & Rec department or the DMV either.

    Before Adams came along… no one was stupid enough to ask anyone at the elections department whether they had Obama’s birth certificate.

    The Governor of Hawaii did ask the Director of the Department of Health…. who said that yes, indeed, they did have the long-form birth certificate. I can’t fathom the logic of concluding that something doesn’t exist because it can’t be found in someplace other than where it belongs.

  158. avatar
    JoZeppy June 16, 2010 at 8:41 pm #

    James: In recent days, due to Tim Adam’s claim, these statutes might explain what happen. We now know that there is no long-form BC (hospital BC) for Obama according to Tim Adams.

    No…we know that Tim Adams CLAIMS that other people TOLD HIM there was no long form…and that he worked in an office that had no access to those records.

    James: I think a statement from Maj. Gen. Paul E. Vallely puts its best:

    It certainly puts many delusions well….

    James: There is no proof that I’ve seen that he was born in Honolulu

    Except for the COLB which is prima facie evidence, the statements of the governor and DoH, the birth announcements…but hey, I suppose if you keep your eyes closed, there is no proof that you’ve seen of much of anything.

    James: because the copy of the alleged birth record certainly doesn’t list any witnesses or the doctor who delivered him, and there’s no record that anyone knows he was born there.

    Yes, because the only records taht have a list of witnesses, doctors, nurses, and everyone who saw the child in the first day count (someone better tell the State Department, and the majority of US states that their records don’t meet Maj. Gen. Paul E. Vallely’s standards for official records…which I guess leaves the vast majority of US citizens with no proof of where they were born.)

    James: In fact, it appears that his mother or his grandparents somehow tried to make it a matter of record that he was born in Hawaii to make him a U.S. citizen.

    Yes, because by saying this, I can actually dismiss all the actual documentary evidence that I pretend not to see in my first sentance. See, all the evidence of him actually being born in Hawaii, is actually evidence that he wasn’t born in the US….yeah…OK

  159. avatar
    heron June 16, 2010 at 10:00 pm #

    Tim Adams thought he overheard someone say they may have overheard someone told them that their aunt heard that Obama might not have a birth certificate. Wow. He should just resign now.

  160. avatar
    DaveH June 16, 2010 at 11:15 pm #

    From what I understand, Tim Adams heard that Obama didn’t have a long form bc based on something his co-worker’s boyfriend’s second cousin’s aunt’s husband’s sister heard. Sure seems to be hearsay to me but maybe Obama should consider resigning before 2012 since WND apparently has the story and we all know WND reports facts.

  161. avatar
    misha June 17, 2010 at 6:20 am #

    DaveH: From what I understand, Tim Adams heard that Obama didn’t have a long form bc based on something his co-worker’s boyfriend’s second cousin’s aunt’s husband’s sister heard. Sure seems to be hearsay to me but maybe Obama should consider resigning before 2012 since WND apparently has the story and we all know WND reports facts.

    All of you are being silly. Tim Adams heard it from my cat.

  162. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 17, 2010 at 7:51 am #

    DaveH: From what I understand, Tim Adams heard that Obama didn’t have a long form bc based on something his co-worker’s boyfriend’s second cousin’s aunt’s husband’s sister heard. Sure seems to be hearsay to me but maybe Obama should consider resigning before 2012 since WND apparently has the story and we all know WND reports facts.

    I think someone in the Hawaii Elections office is a time traveler who forward in time and read it in WND.

  163. avatar
    Ellid June 17, 2010 at 9:40 am #

    Dr. C –

    Don’t tell me. It was a tall, lanky fellow in a pinstripe suit, Converse All-Stars, and geeky glasses who talked about things being wibbly-wobbly and timey-wimey, right?

    *vworp* *vworp* *vworp*

  164. avatar
    racosta June 17, 2010 at 10:37 am #

    James has been getting sillier than normal. He falls for one OMG moment after another. He really believes the Tim Adams fiction and is spreading it throughout the internet. He never responds nor even reads responses so he has no idea how silly he is. All he ever does is make us laugh. No sense trying to educate him, he automatically blocks truth. I wonder how each let down affects him. What will he do when Lakin fails to unseat Obama. Maybe he can become a columnist at WND or he can become the webmaster at RSOL. Better yet, he can become Orly’s assistant.

  165. avatar
    thorswitch June 17, 2010 at 11:40 am #

    Two different people have contacted the Hawaiian department of Elections to confirm various aspects of this story. The first called and verified that Adams actually had worked there during the summer of 2008. The second called and learned that Adams DID NOT have access to any of the databases he claimed he did. In fact, no one in the Elections office had access to those databases. Now, a lot of people are claiming that Adams story must be true because the department of Elections confirmed he actually worked there, but most of them simply ignore that the department of Elections ALSO confirmed that Adams is a liar because he claimed to have access to databases that he never did have access to. And if you’re willing to take the word of an Elections official that Adams worked there, then you also have to take the word of an Elections official that he didn’t have the access he claimed he did.

    As for James declaration that if the long form existed we would have seen it by now, you’re wrong. The Health Insurance Privacy and Portability Act (aka HIPPA) DOES NOT ALLOW such records to be released to anyone other than the person themselves or, if that person is deceased, to a *CLOSE* living relative. Additionally, because there is only *one* original of any birth document, under no circumstances will the state allow that actual piece of paper to leave it’s vaults. Even if Obama were willing to get and show a copy of his long-form (which would be quite difficult since Hawaii has digitized all of their records and does not have ready access to the original papers that were filed) all he could show would be just that – a COPY – and you know every birther will just claim that it’s forged, so there’s no point whatsoever in even trying. Why bother when you know that no one will accept it?

  166. avatar
    Sef June 17, 2010 at 6:15 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: it should be possible to move these where they belong.

    Isn’t your bit bucket about to overflow?