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Birther crazy

Part of my reading in support of this blog includes lawsuits filed by mental patients. I have found people obsessed by a quest that consumes their life: trying to prevail against some government bureaucracy, public utility, encroaching neighbor, or medical insurance company. Perhaps their antics seem quirky and odd; some of the militia types seem downright scary, but I wouldn’t make fun of any of them. My life to some small extent is defined by my quest to convert the birthers and this gives me a glimpse of how it might be to be totally consumed by something like that, something were one can never prevail.

If I had a buck for every time Orly Taitz has been called crazy on the Internet…

Hyperbole and caricature  abounds about public figures and we chuckle over the antics of some and the sheer preposterousness of the things they do. That’s all good fun. What is more of concern to me is when we get serious and say that someone is mentally ill. If it’s really true, perhaps it’s an inappropriate topic for the Internet. If it’s false, then it’s just plain wrong.

I have some medical information about some of the characters we talk about here; I believe it’s accurate. However, you’ll never hear me talk about it, because there is a possibility that I could be wrong and more importantly the possibility that I could be right.

If you see me calling someone “crazy” or “nutcase” or “wacko,” know that it’s caricature and not meant seriously.

252 Responses to Birther crazy

  1. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP July 19, 2010 at 10:14 pm #

    Fact is, Doc, there are a lot of them out there, and if anyone poses a danger to the president because of this birther nonsense, they are it.

  2. avatar
    Domokun July 19, 2010 at 11:59 pm #

    Trick is: How do we make money off them like Doc says about Taitz? Turn this into a win. Let the crazy fill our wallets.

  3. avatar
    Lupin July 20, 2010 at 2:40 am #

    Submitted for your consideration, this blog entry by David Neiwert which explains why birthers are b*tsh*t insane:

    http://crooksandliars.com/node/38462

    Quote:

    ” This is what people are talking about when they remark that “the Republican Party is the home of racists.” They’re not arguing that every conservative Republican is a racist; but practicing racists consistently self-identify as conservatives, and many are in fact Republicans (or sometimes even farther to the right). There are always exceptions, of course, but the known pattern is clear enough.

    “Right-wing populism is always fueled and populated by right-wing authoritarians — people who believe that the nation/state needs strong rulers and that it’s the duty of citizens to obey them assiduously. This why they suffer so much cognitive dissonance when the nation’s top authority is a Democrat/liberal/socialist/Marxist/fascist — and why their first impulse, in such situations, is to embark on a vicious campaign of delegitimization (see, e.g., Bill Clinton). It’s why they basically go insane.”

  4. avatar
    Majority Will July 20, 2010 at 7:21 am #

    Lupin: Submitted for your consideration, this blog entry by David Neiwert which explains why birthers are b*tsh*t insane:http://crooksandliars.com/node/38462Quote:” This is what people are talking about when they remark that “the Republican Party is the home of racists.” They’re not arguing that every conservative Republican is a racist; but practicing racists consistently self-identify as conservatives, and many are in fact Republicans (or sometimes even farther to the right). There are always exceptions, of course, but the known pattern is clear enough.“Right-wing populism is always fueled and populated by right-wing authoritarians — people who believe that the nation/state needs strong rulers and that it’s the duty of citizens to obey them assiduously. This why they suffer so much cognitive dissonance when the nation’s top authority is a Democrat/liberal/socialist/Marxist/fascist — and why their first impulse, in such situations, is to embark on a vicious campaign of delegitimization (see, e.g., Bill Clinton). It’s why they basically go insane.”

    There’s a whole lot of denial exhibited by rabid birthers which can’t be good for mental health. The passive aggressive ones are the “concern trolls” who sometimes go to extremes to hide inner rage and frustration that the world doesn’t neatly follow their definitions and expectation (e.g., a real President must be white, male, ultra-conservative and wealthy).

  5. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 20, 2010 at 8:17 am #

    I remember Yguy or James, NC1 etc one of them commenting about errors in spelling on a BC how sometimes Obama’s father was spelled different. I just got my birth certificate again in the mail and noticed that my mother’s middle and last name are both misspelled. This just goes to show clerks aren’t infallible when entering data, mistakes do occur.

  6. avatar
    Lawyerwitharealdegree July 20, 2010 at 9:07 am #

    Domokun: Trick is: How do we make money off them like Doc says about Taitz? Turn this into a win. Let the crazy fill our wallets.

    Well, sanctions against their attorneys are a start. Mario filed his “response” to the Order to Show Cause. It’s 95 pages of full birther BS, combined with ramblings on every standing case the Supreme Court ever decided (and none of this is Mario’s fault because the concept of standing is hard and SCOTUS never decided a standing case exactly on point), a demand for discovery and other assorted BS. It’s up at nbc’s blog.

  7. avatar
    Black Lion July 20, 2010 at 9:53 am #

    More birther crazy….

    http://factsnotfantasy.blogspot.com/2010/07/ridding-ourselves-of-obama.html

    “The problem is an ancient one. How to remove from office a king or, in a republic, an elected leader who has broken the law and/or is perceived to be a threat to both the present and future of the nation? In earlier eras, the solution was usually bloody.

    “Who will rid me of this meddling priest?” England’s King Henry II was reputed to have said of Thomas Becket, the Archbishop of Canterbury. In 1170, his complaint was obliged when Becket was murdered on a cold December evening.

    I cite this famous quote only because the tide is rising among Americans who would be rid of Barack Obama. I would never suggest or condone the sword, but surely one would think we the People might have recourse to the courts or Congress.

    The fear in both the courts and Congress is the torturous process involved and, of course, the outcome.

    Twice in our history, impeachment has been tried and failed, first with Andrew Johnson whose Reconstruction policies following the Civil War were in much disfavor and, in more recent times, with Bill Clinton whose perjuries and other problems were not deemed to rise to a level worthy of removing him from office. Richard Nixon resigned before he could be impeached.

    The Constitution stipulates that “The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.”

    The drawback of impeachment is the way it would inevitably cast Obama as the victim of predatory politicians. It is not a good choice.

    Presumably, lying about one’s eligibility to hold the office of President and spending huge sums to ensure that one’s birth certificate and actual place of birth shall remain unknown would justify removal.

    We all know by now that, constitutionally, only a “natural born” citizen may serve as President. His father was a British citizen and both parents must be American to qualify as natural born. We all know that considerable controversy exists as regards the birthplace and citizenship status of Obama. Was he a Kenyan? Was he an Indonesian citizen at one point?

    The enduring question on the minds of many is why the court cases filed to get at the facts regarding his eligibility have encountered so much resistance? Surely this is a matter of major national concern. What nation would permit an imposter to serve in its highest office?

    Alas, early cases were dismissed when those bringing them were deemed to have no “standing” before the court though one might think the lowliest citizen should have standing.

    As wrenching as the process of removing Obama from office via the judicial process might be deemed, there is no legitimate reason not to proceed.

    There appears to be no evidence his birth was registered with the American embassy or consulate in Kenya. I have seen a photo of a document said to be his Kenyan birth certificate. Having no way to authenticate it, I am reluctant to pass judgment.

    The birth certificate from Hawaii, offered during the 2008 campaign, is said to be one issued upon request as opposed to the “long form” issued for those actually born there. There was some question raised at the time as to its authenticity with allegations that it was photoshopped. There is a question whether a long form certificate exists.

    My personal view is that many in government fear the consequences of removing even an illegitimate President from office, given that it would require that all legislation signed into law and all executive orders issued by him would be rendered invalid. I suspect some fear that chaos more than waiting and hoping the electoral process will end his term in 2012.

    My problem is that the nation must endure some 900 more days of the malevolence or sheer incompetence he will initiate; including a lame duck session of Congress following the midterm elections that would impose Cap-and-Trade, card check, and other legislative abominations.

    A large majority of the electorate presently wants Obamacare repealed and will likely feel the same about the alleged financial “reforms.”

    There are constitutional scholars who know far more about such things than me, but I confess to remaining baffled by the failure to attend to the critical question regarding the right of Barack Hussein Obama to be the President of the United States.”

  8. avatar
    Black Lion July 20, 2010 at 9:58 am #

    From the Post and Fail, the treasonous Arnie Rosner….

    “So let us take a few minutes to examine the current situation and why it makes sense to reconsider our options now and not wait until November:

    We have an executive branch that has just about all but given up following any part of our constitution and has become totally ineffective. It can no longer be said that the executive branch is serving the needs of the electorate.

    The current conduct includes but is not limited to the following examples of illegal practices that are part of a politically-motivated agenda as opposed to maintaining a civil legal system to benefit the citizens as required under the Constitution:

    Selective enforce of current laws
    Initiating suits that discriminate against states that follow and enforce the rule of law
    Illegally bribing members of the legislative branch to gain political objectives of the executive branch
    Race-baiting
    Religious discrimination
    Religious persecution
    Hiding the critical state of our nation’s finances by not producing a budget (If Americans cannot see the red ink, it does not exist). Yes…Obama has once more pulled another fast one…Americans are that dumb!
    Invoking executive orders to circumvent Congress
    Creating czar appointments to bypass legislative scrutiny
    Suspended requirement of FBI clearance of staff so Obama could appoint people of questionable reputation
    Seeking to create a division between the citizens based on race and religion
    Seeking to destroy the nation’s financial stability
    Seeking to destroy the ability of the nation to respond to attacks from internal and external enemies
    Seeking to violate the Posse Comitatus Act
    Seeking to destroy the sovereignty of the United States
    Seeking to force citizens into armed rebellion so Obama can apply Martial Law and insure complete control

    Our legislative branch, consisting of a House of Representatives and Senate, both of which no longer provide any serious accountability to the constituents by whom they were elected. The members of these two bodies also routinely violate the Constitution and thereby demonstrate their willingness to support the illegal activities of the executive branch with little exception. They are also engaged in a conspiracy to cover up the eligibility issue (that seems centered around U.S. Sen. Resolution 511).”

    “We have a Judiciary that seems to be conveniently out to lunch in terms of dealing with controversial constitutional issues.

    Issues like:

    Eligibility of the Usurper
    Election Fraud
    Civil Rights Violations
    Government Corruption

    Since we can all agree we no longer have a working government, then those of us who honor the Constitution are required by law to form a new government.

    So as I see it, since the last government has quit, the Declaration of Independence demands that “We the people” call for new elections.

    Does Tuesday, September 7, 2010 sound convenient?

    And in the comments….

    Vebbuler says:
    Monday, July 19, 2010 at 9:43 AM
    “So as I see it, since the last government has quit, the Constitution demands that “We the people” call for new elections.”

    But you quoted from a section of the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution. Where in the actual Constitution does it mention “new elections”?

    All I see can find is Article 1, Sec. 2:

    “The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States . . .”

    and Article 1, Sec. 3:

    “The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State for six Years . . .”
    —————-
    Mrs. Rondeau replies: The 20th Amendment to the Constitution states that if the president “shall have failed to qualify…” Also, “high crimes and misdemeanors” are mentioned in the Constitution, and the entire Congress, White House, and judicial system are guilty of committing those, in Arnie’s opinion. Judges serve only in times of “good behaviour,” and every single judge has refused to hear a case regarding Obama’s eligibility. Is that “good behaviour”?

  9. avatar
    imabirthertoo July 20, 2010 at 10:16 am #

    Everyone who voted for Obama has a stake in his defense. Confirmation bias is not a fault attributed only to those with whom you disagree. The really sad part is that Obama’s most dedicated defenders (a handful of people) will dismiss any anomaly as meaningless.

    When things don’t make sense, there is usually good reason for them to not make sense. (Kind of like Dr. Con, making sure to state that he has a master’s degree, while remaining anonymous.) Many here would likely say that they are sure he is telling the truth. Some know that he is not.

    Deciding what one is willing to accept, on one’s word alone, is personal choice. For many Obots it may be their personal belief that Obama was born in Kapi’olani. They would even struggle to admit that such a belief is based solely on the word of the one whom it benefits (Obama). To-date no one who was a witness to the event has come forward. Nor has any documentation been presented that would support that claim. Believing it or not is a personal choice. It is nothing more than that. Yet some will go so far as to mock others who choose not to believe it. That’s the product of fear, and an effort to intimidate others.

    Why just yesterday, I came across a statement posted by “bovril” on another site where he/she found some importance in the residents of Hawaii believing Obama was born there. If these people were sharp enough to recognize only what has been presented, they would only claim that Obama’s birth was registered in Hawaii. Anything more is pure speculation. **For those who might be a slow, the newspaper announcements are only supportive of a birth being registered. They do nothing to support the factuality of that report.

    Which birth registration would you consider to be more reliable; one attended by a physician, one attended by a midwife, or one attended by a family member? Which one of those is the case for Obama? Are you going to tell me that you don’t know? If you are going to be truthful; you must. Your confirmation bias may permit you to accept hospital birth as fact, but only arrogance and fear will permit you to expect others to do so.

    I can understand why those who question Obama find a need to post anonymously, but I cannot understand why those who support him would find that same need. Perhaps it alone is what gives them license to laugh.

    I’m an MD with a JD, and I would like to see these questions resolved. Why? Because there is no rational reason for them to remain unresolved. I and many like me don’t consider the position of commander in chief of the most powerful military in the world to be a position in which the full background of the applicant should not be required to be open for examination.

  10. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 20, 2010 at 10:27 am #

    imabirthertoo: Everyone who voted for Obama has a stake in his defense. Confirmation bias is not a fault attributed only to those with whom you disagree. The really sad part is that Obama’s most dedicated defenders (a handful of people) will dismiss any anomaly as meaningless.When things don’t make sense, there is usually good reason for them to not make sense. (Kind of like Dr. Con, making sure to state that he has a master’s degree, while remaining anonymous.) Many here would likely say that they are sure he is telling the truth. Some know that he is not.Deciding what one is willing to accept, on one’s word alone, is personal choice. For many Obots it may be their personal belief that Obama was born in Kapi’olani. They would even struggle to admit that such a belief is based solely on the word of the one whom it benefits (Obama). To-date no one who was a witness to the event has come forward. Nor has any documentation been presented that would support that claim. Believing it or not is a personal choice. It is nothing more than that. Yet some will go so far as to mock others who choose not to believe it. That’s the product of fear, and an effort to intimidate others.Why just yesterday, I came across a statement posted by “bovril” on another site where he/she found some importance in the residents of Hawaii believing Obama was born there. If these people were sharp enough to recognize only what has been presented, they would only claim that Obama’s birth was registered in Hawaii. Anything more is pure speculation. **For those who might be a slow, the newspaper announcements are only supportive of a birth being registered. They do nothing to support the factuality of that report.Which birth registration would you consider to be more reliable; one attended by a physician, one attended by a midwife, or one attended by a family member? Which one of those is the case for Obama? Are you going to tell me that you don’t know? If you are going to be truthful; you must. Your confirmation bias may permit you to accept hospital birth as fact, but only arrogance and fear will permit you to expect others to do so.I can understand why those who question Obama find a need to post anonymously, but I cannot understand why those who support him would find that same need. Perhaps it alone is what gives them license to laugh.I’m an MD with a JD, and I would like to see these questions resolved. Why? Because there is no rational reason for them to remain unresolved. I and many like me don’t consider the position of commander in chief of the most powerful military in the world to be a position in which the full background of the applicant should not be required to be open for examination.

    Wow you said a lot of words but said absolutely nothing at all. Never have I seen someone ramble on without any purpose as the above. You try to say those rational people who aren’t birthers act out of fear is ridiculous projectionism. It is because of fear that the birthers keep going on and on. They’re trying to make him look foreign, they go off of speculation and paranoia instead of looking at the evidence that is available. Do you have any hard proof to support your belief that he was not born in Hawaii?

  11. avatar
    Lawyerwitharealdegree July 20, 2010 at 10:42 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Wow you said a lot of words but said absolutely nothing at all.Never have I seen someone ramble on without any purpose as the above..

    Go read Mario’s 95 page Response to Order to Show Cause. Amazing someone can write 95 pages of nothing, file it at the very last minute, and fail to do even a cursory proofreading.

  12. avatar
    thisoldhippie July 20, 2010 at 10:45 am #

    It makes me so angry to hear these people say they want “their” America back, they want to remove a duly elected President and install their own choice who says and does only what they agree with. I want “my” America to move forward, to be progressive, to be open and equal to peoples of all nationalities, sexual orientation, religious beliefs, etc. I am a “natural born American” who is a direct descendent of General Joseph Martin, (very colorful character), who fought in the American Revolution. He is not my only AR ancestor. I also have ancestors who fought for the south in the Civil War – but have no desire to be a member of the DOC. Most of my family feels the same way. Why should I then have these people tell me that I am not a true American Patriot? While I feel that they are misguided and are just wrong, it is their perogative to have their beliefs, however, their recourse will occur in 2012 when they have the opportunity to vote for the candidate of their choice. Until then, they are just SOL as far as I’m concerned and they need to stop talking on my behalf. I don’t want or need them to “fix” the country as they see fit.

  13. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 20, 2010 at 10:50 am #

    Lawyerwitharealdegree: Go read Mario’s 95 page Response to Order to Show Cause. Amazing someone can write 95 pages of nothing, file it at the very last minute, and fail to do even a cursory proofreading.

    I’m sorry, but I do have a life and i feel I’d want to put myself out of my misery if I had to read through 95 pages of a failed lawyer’s paranoid rants.

  14. avatar
    Black Lion July 20, 2010 at 10:55 am #

    imabirthertoo: Everyone who voted for Obama has a stake in his defense. Confirmation bias is not a fault attributed only to those with whom you disagree. The really sad part is that Obama’s most dedicated defenders (a handful of people) will dismiss any anomaly as meaningless.When things don’t make sense, there is usually good reason for them to not make sense. (Kind of like Dr. Con, making sure to state that he has a master’s degree, while remaining anonymous.) Many here would likely say that they are sure he is telling the truth. Some know that he is not.Deciding what one is willing to accept, on one’s word alone, is personal choice. For many Obots it may be their personal belief that Obama was born in Kapi’olani. They would even struggle to admit that such a belief is based solely on the word of the one whom it benefits (Obama). To-date no one who was a witness to the event has come forward. Nor has any documentation been presented that would support that claim. Believing it or not is a personal choice. It is nothing more than that. Yet some will go so far as to mock others who choose not to believe it. That’s the product of fear, and an effort to intimidate others.Why just yesterday, I came across a statement posted by “bovril” on another site where he/she found some importance in the residents of Hawaii believing Obama was born there. If these people were sharp enough to recognize only what has been presented, they would only claim that Obama’s birth was registered in Hawaii. Anything more is pure speculation. **For those who might be a slow, the newspaper announcements are only supportive of a birth being registered. They do nothing to support the factuality of that report.Which birth registration would you consider to be more reliable; one attended by a physician, one attended by a midwife, or one attended by a family member? Which one of those is the case for Obama? Are you going to tell me that you don’t know? If you are going to be truthful; you must. Your confirmation bias may permit you to accept hospital birth as fact, but only arrogance and fear will permit you to expect others to do so.I can understand why those who question Obama find a need to post anonymously, but I cannot understand why those who support him would find that same need. Perhaps it alone is what gives them license to laugh.I’m an MD with a JD, and I would like to see these questions resolved. Why? Because there is no rational reason for them to remain unresolved. I and many like me don’t consider the position of commander in chief of the most powerful military in the world to be a position in which the full background of the applicant should not be required to be open for examination.

    Wow…That was an interesting post….A lot of fury saying nothing. People don’t believe Obama was born in HI just because he said so. They believe that he was born there because the State of HI has stated that he was born there. Not registered, but BORN. That is what Dr. Fukino said. Your tangent regarding “registered” is nothing other than attempting to cloud the issue. The COLB that Obama released states that he was BORN in Honolulu, HI. Only weak minded people looking for confirmation of their intense dislike of the President sees something that is not there. Which is the myth that anyone could get their births registered in HI. If it was that easy why don’t you try? Why since 1959 has no one been able to show someone that had a HI COLB but was born elsewhere? Come on, if it is so easy than there has to be some proof that this has occured sometime in the past.

    Secondly who cares if it was a hospital or a midwife. Does that really matter? So all of the President’s that were born to midwives should have their birth accounts investigated? Is there a Constitutional requirement that you have to be born in a hospital? No. No witness has come forward because it is doesn’t matter. That is why we have a birth certificate. As a matter of fact if a doctor came forward and claimed that they remembered a birth 50 years ago I would be suspicious of that individual.

    The only thing that is pure speculation is the birther arguments. The internet is about being anonymous. If you have such an issue with that, then tell us who you really are. Of course you won’t because you know deep down the birther argument is about hatred of the President, not about facts.

  15. avatar
    Reality Check July 20, 2010 at 11:17 am #

    imabirthertoo: I’m an MD with a JD

    My condolences to your patients and clients.

  16. avatar
    Majority Will July 20, 2010 at 11:31 am #

    Reality Check:
    My condolences to your patients and clients.

    Since that post was built on humorless, ironic hypocrisy (to wit: Kind of like Dr. Con, making sure to state that he has a master’s degree, while remaining anonymous says the anonymous “MD, JD.” Yeah right.). I would guess that clients and patients consists of a handful of tattered socks with buttons for eyes.

    Read more like a desperate cry for attention than anything remotely resembling reason or logic.

    “Many here would likely say that they are sure he is telling the truth. Some know that he is not.”

    Typical birther blather erroneously depicting the President as the source of confirmation of his natural born citizen status and conveniently omitting the recognized, legal authority of the the state of Hawaii guaranteed full faith and credit by the U.S. Constitution.

    It’s despicable and cowardly.

  17. avatar
    imabirthertoo July 20, 2010 at 11:45 am #

    Bob Ross, (if that is your real name I must applaud your courage)

    Why the need to initially respond with an attack on the substance of my comment?

    Fear? Sure it is fear. George Washington, in his farewell address, told us to fear usurpation. Was George wrong to consider such to be guarded against?

    I know the fears of millions of Americans could’ve been laid to rest, and I know who has the ability to make that happen. Obama

    I don’t dislike Obama. I never have. I think he was the breath of fresh air that this country needed. Why is it that people think you must dislike him in order to find a need to question him? Steadfast defense of the unknown is the way many deal with their fear of an outcome they would rather avoid. I have seen it too many times. For example, those who developed interstitial lung disease, after many years of smoking, are more likely to blame their exhaustion on getting older. They don’t want the truth. Seeking the truth is the only effective way to address a problem.

    Many Obama defenders play the race card as if it were the wildward in their defense deck. As an African-American, I find this disgraceful. It only serves to delegitimize every valid complaint. Obama, by failing to nip this thing in the bud, has damaged race relations in this country. What makes the cries of racism worse is that they are predominantly being made by white folks who have never been subjected to racism. I grew up in the south. I’ve seen racism up close and personal. Questioning Obama is not a matter of race. Playing the race card to defend him against all questions is the very essence of racism.

  18. avatar
    DCH July 20, 2010 at 11:53 am #

    Birthers keep filing the SAME basic few cases over and over and get the same result (failure) each time.
    That is the definition of insanity.

    The fact that the true belivers keep sending paypal money to the same scam lawyers who just file the same cheap to file cases that have already failed confirms that the con men lawyers have found a reliable customer base with birthers.

  19. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 20, 2010 at 12:00 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Bob Ross, (if that is your real name I must applaud your courage)Why the need to initially respond with an attack on the substance of my comment?Fear? Sure it is fear. George Washington, in his farewell address, told us to fear usurpation. Was George wrong to consider such to be guarded against?I know the fears of millions of Americans could’ve been laid to rest, and I know who has the ability to make that happen. ObamaI don’t dislike Obama. I never have. I think he was the breath of fresh air that this country needed. Why is it that people think you must dislike him in order to find a need to question him? Steadfast defense of the unknown is the way many deal with their fear of an outcome they would rather avoid. I have seen it too many times. For example, those who developed interstitial lung disease, after many years of smoking, are more likely to blame their exhaustion on getting older. They don’t want the truth. Seeking the truth is the only effective way to address a problem.Many Obama defenders play the race card as if it were the wildward in their defense deck. As an African-American, I find this disgraceful. It only serves to delegitimize every valid complaint. Obama, by failing to nip this thing in the bud, has damaged race relations in this country. What makes the cries of racism worse is that they are predominantly being made by white folks who have never been subjected to racism. I grew up in the south. I’ve seen racism up close and personal. Questioning Obama is not a matter of race. Playing the race card to defend him against all questions is the very essence of racism.

    There was no substance in your comment to attack. You said a bunch of words that had absolutely no purpose behind them. The fear is from the birther sides. There can’t be a usurption of power in a democracy especially when the majority voted for him, the congress signed off the election, and the supreme court swore him in. Where were your fears of a usurper in 2000?

    Obama has proven himself more than any other president but as with most conspiracy theorists, the more one gets proof the more they question. It’s like the children’s book “if you give a mouse a cookie” http://www.amazon.com/You-Give-Mouse-Cookie-Give/dp/0060245867/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279641456&sr=8-1

    This is the reason why most birthers have moved past the dead issue of the birth certificate and on to making up other theories, like the two citizen rule, his mom being old enough, his dad not being his dad, etc. It was never about the constitution to them it is about their hatred for what Obama represents, progress. Again you say a lot but still say nothing at all.

    Are there any other qualifiers you would like to throw out there to try to improve your credibility?

  20. avatar
    Lupin July 20, 2010 at 12:03 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Questioning Obama is not a matter of race.

    It surely is when it is the only President being questioned.

  21. avatar
    Majority Will July 20, 2010 at 12:20 pm #

    Lupin:
    It surely is when it is the only President being questioned.

    As well as another disingenuous, lonely concern troll spouting the same trite b.s. Or a sock puppet.

    “by failing to nip this thing in the bud”

    Utter birther nonsense.

  22. avatar
    imabirthertoo July 20, 2010 at 12:25 pm #

    Bob Ross,

    Your need to rely on the swearing in of Obama by the Chief Justice demonstrates your need to find more than what is there. The swearing in is a ministerial duty. It was not, and never can be considered to be, an endorsement.

    Did the President of the Senate ask for objections? Isn’t that a requirement?

  23. avatar
    Mary Brown July 20, 2010 at 12:25 pm #

    Nothing, nothing will change the mindset of people who want to see this President destroyed. The doctor could appear, the nurse present at the birth could describe it and all could name the hospital in Hawaii. It still would not matter. The folks who dislike this President would go on to the next thing, adaption in Indonesia, high crimes that include anything and everything President Obama has done. It won’t matter. The country failed to elect a conservative President. Conservatives are the only patriotic Americans. The nation belongs to them. Other folks are not patriotic enough – do not recognize that the conservative view alone represents the nation. Any digression on any view is anti-American. I am an independent voter and there are some parts of the conservative view I agree with. But this idea conservatives and conservatives alone have the right to define what is patriotic or not is a notion that is not grounded in reality. But will they give it up?. No. Oh, there are some progressives I believe have the same kind of mentality on the left. But they have always been fewer in number.

  24. avatar
    AnotherBird July 20, 2010 at 12:28 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Bob Ross, (if that is your real name I must applaud your courage)

    … What are you are attempting to suggest?

    imabirthertooMany Obama defenders play the race card as if it were the wildward in their defense deck. As an African-American, I find this disgraceful. …. Obama, by failing to nip this thing in the bud, has damaged race relations in this country. What makes the cries of racism worse is that they are predominantly being made by white folks who have never been subjected to racism.

    Why are you playing the race card? imabirthertoo, please take time and re-read your comment. First you complain about something then you engage in the exact same behavior you condemn. On the issue of race relations your race (whether it is a honest portrayal) is irrelevant. Any complaints about race relations should be equally spread on all presidents, and judge on their records. Race relations go well beyond the simple black and white that you attempt to suggest.

    Birthers have absolutely no legitimate questions. You seem to act like some federal or state law enforcement officer would love to bring down a powerful politician. Let us just call it birther crazy, and leave the real reason for birther nonsense for birthers to admit to themselves.

  25. avatar
    Majority Will July 20, 2010 at 12:38 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Bob Ross,Your need to rely on the swearing in of Obama by the Chief Justice demonstrates your need to find more than what is there. The swearing in is aministerial duty. It was not, and never can beconsidered to be, an endorsement.Did the President of the Senate ask for objections? Isn’t that a requirement?

    Dick Cheney, president of the Senate, announces the official results of the 2008 Presidential Election and declares Barack Obama as the next and 44th President of the United States

    Barack Obama is officially the next president of the United States, Congress declared Thursday in fulfilling its centuries-old constitutional duty to certify and tally the electoral college vote from each state. Cheney led a Senate delegation into the House chamber along with teenage pages carrying two mahogany boxes containing the certified vote totals of each state. Republicans joined Democrats in a standing ovation as Vice President Dick Cheney, in his role as president of the Senate, and after hearing no objections announced from the podium that Obama had achieved a majority of votes and would be the 44th president on Jan. 20th. Speaking before a joint session of the House and Senate, Cheney confirmed the results of the Nov. 4 election, that Obama and next Vice President Joe Biden had received 365 electoral votes while the Republican ticket of John McCain and Sarah Palin garnered 173 votes. He sat on the podium next to Pelosi, carrying out what could be his last act as president of the Senate. He handed the certificates from each state’s electors to the four tellers to be read and tallied.

  26. avatar
    Dave July 20, 2010 at 12:50 pm #

    imabirthertoo: When things don’t make sense, there is usually good reason for them to not make sense.

    Amen to that.

    One of the things that causes me to waste too much time reading birther websites is my fascination with the way sane people can make their brains completely abandon rational thought.

    Let me try to help you out. You spend quite a few words attempting to construct a justification for disbelieving the birth certificate that we’ve all seen. You proceed by raising hypothetical possibilities and then making insinuations about them — e.g. maybe the birth was attended by a midwife, and if so, maybe the midwife lied. Here’s what you are overlooking — the Hawaiian birth certificate is clear evidence that the President was born in Hawaii. What clear evidence is there that he wasn’t? Answer — not one single shred. Which makes we wonder, what is your basis for your belief that the President wasn’t born in Hawaii, since it isn’t evidence?

    And I am amused by your comment that the President’s supporters are “a handful of people”. Do you have evidence for that, or is that just another belief? Let’s note that when Orly Taitz ran for SoS of CA on a birther platform, the number of people sufficiently motivated to register Republican and vote for her was about 3% of registered voters. Not all of them are necessarily birthers, but let’s be generous and go with the whole 3%. I would not call birthers a “handful”, but I certainly would say 3% is a numerically insignificant fringe.

  27. avatar
    Dave July 20, 2010 at 1:05 pm #

    imabirthertoo: I know the fears of millions of Americans could’ve been laid to rest, and I know who has the ability to make that happen. Obama

    Here you repeat a line I have heard birther state over and over, but I have never seen an explanation of what it means. What fear? And how can it be laid to rest?

    The part of being laid to rest is especially dubious. Birthers use his already long released birth certificate as the basis for more baseless speculation and insinuation — as you do. Why is it that more released information would lead to anything else? And, most importantly, why should the President release information when the birthers haven’t articulated any rational question that the information would answer?

  28. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 20, 2010 at 1:09 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Bob Ross,Your need to rely on the swearing in of Obama by the Chief Justice demonstrates your need to find more than what is there. The swearing in is a ministerial duty. It was not, and never can be considered to be, an endorsement.Did the President of the Senate ask for objections? Isn’t that a requirement?

    Yeah you’re right its no big deal that the supreme court swore him in. Nor that they will not take birther cases. When the election was certified by congress they asked for objections and no one objected. I think you put too much faith in speculation more than you put faith in the United States. Again you’ve said stuff but haven’t said anything at all.

  29. avatar
    Rickey July 20, 2010 at 1:12 pm #

    imabirthertooDid the President of the Senate ask for objections? Isn’t that a requirement?

    Actually, it is not a requirement. Your question is just another birther straw man.

    The statute reads “…the votes having been ascertained and counted according to the rules in this subchapter provided, the result of the same shall be delivered to the President of the Senate, who shall thereupon announce the state of the vote, which announcement shall be deemed a sufficient declaration of the persons, if any, elected President and Vice President of the United States, and, together with a list of the votes, be entered on the Journals of the two Houses. Upon such reading of any such certificate or paper, the President of the Senate shall call for objections, if any.”

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/3/usc_sec_03_00000015—-000-.html

    The statute doesn’t say that the President of the Senate (the Vice-President) has to ask if there are any objections. He has to call for objections only if there are any objections. It is a subtle but significant difference.

    “Every objection shall be made in writing, and shall state clearly and concisely, and without argument, the ground thereof, and shall be signed by at least one Senator and one Member of the House of Representatives before the same shall be received.”

    Since objections have to be in writing, it follows that they have to be prepared in advance. If signed by a Senator and a member of the House, all they have to do is make their intentions known to the President of the Senate, and then the President of the Senate has to call for the objections. Since no Senator or Representative has complained that Cheney did not call for objections, we can safely conclude that no such objections had been written and signed.

    End of discussion.

  30. avatar
    imabirthertoo July 20, 2010 at 1:12 pm #

    Dave,

    If who signed off as attending the birth was insignificant, I doubt that a government document identifying such would exist.

    I never stated that the person who attended Obama’s birth had lied. I would have no way of knowing that. By the same token, you would have no reason to know that the person had been truthful.

    As for Orly Taitz:

    I’m a northern, and I would not vote for her.

  31. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 20, 2010 at 1:15 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Dave,If who signed off as attending the birth was insignificant, I doubt that a government document identifying such would exist.I never stated that the person who attended Obama’s birth had lied. I would have no way of knowing that. By the same token, you would have no reason to know that the person had been truthful.As for Orku Taitz:I’m a northern, and I would not vote for her.

    We have no reason to believe you’re truthful and being entirely honest. Seriously do you have any shred of proof that Obama doesn’t meet the requirements to be president?

  32. avatar
    Dave July 20, 2010 at 1:17 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Dave,If who signed off as attending the birth was insignificant, I doubt that a government document identifying such would exist.I never stated that the person who attended Obama’s birth had lied. I would have no way of knowing that.

    OK, so you’re telling me what you’re not saying. Maybe now you can tell me what you are saying. I gather you want to see a photocopy of the original birth record, so tell us, exactly what rational question will it answer?

  33. avatar
    imabirthertoo July 20, 2010 at 1:20 pm #

    Stupid autocorrect!

    As for Orly Taitz:

    I’m a birther, but I would not vote for her. The Obots must assume that I would not vote for her is because she is a white woman. Isn’t that the reason most of you would not vote for her?

  34. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 20, 2010 at 1:23 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Stupid autocorrect!As for Orly Taitz:I’m a birther, but I would not vote for her. The Obots must assume that I would not vote for her is because she is a white woman. Isn’t that the reason most of you would not vote for her?

    Wow now who is racebaiting again? No people wouldn’t vote for her because she’s insane.

  35. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 20, 2010 at 1:31 pm #

    imabirthertoo: When things don’t make sense, there is usually good reason for them to not make sense. (Kind of like Dr. Con, making sure to state that he has a master’s degree, while remaining anonymous.) Many here would likely say that they are sure he is telling the truth. Some know that he is not.

    I had assumed that the readers here were familiar enough with popular culture to recognize the phrase “I’m not a real doctor, but I have a master’s degree” from the Dr. Science character from the Ducks Breath Mystery Theater. I post anonymously because of concerns about my personal safety from those who publicly call for the extermination of Obama and all his supporters.

    As for you, if you think I have not told the truth somewhere, cite it, rather than making vague smears. Crap like that may fly on birther blogs, but not here.

  36. avatar
    imabirthertoo July 20, 2010 at 1:33 pm #

    Many of you must not know the law.

    I suggest you read Title 3, Chapter 1, Section 15.

    Bob Ross, Why did you just lie about Cheney calling objections?

  37. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 20, 2010 at 1:39 pm #

    imabirthertoo: As for Orly Taitz:

    I’m a birther, but I would not vote for her. The Obots must assume that I would not vote for her is because she is a white woman. Isn’t that the reason most of you would not vote for her?

    I wouldn’t vote for her because:

    – I’m not a California voter
    – She’s not qualified
    – She’s not a serious candidate
    – She’s bat-shit crazy
    – I’m a Democrat

  38. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 20, 2010 at 1:41 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Title 3, Chapter 1, Section 15

    You’re telling us Cheney didn’t do his job and was involved in the conspiracy to seat a democrat as president?

  39. avatar
    imabirthertoo July 20, 2010 at 1:48 pm #

    Dr. Con: Pop culture???

    Your “pop culture” must be reliant on you own blog! That is the only place your culture exists. A Google search for “I’m not a doctor, but I have a master’s degree” results in your blog being the origin.

  40. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 20, 2010 at 1:49 pm #

    imabirthertoo: The swearing in [of Obama by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court] is a ministerial duty.

    And you think this why?

  41. avatar
    imabirthertoo July 20, 2010 at 1:53 pm #

    Bob Ross,

    No answer as to the motivation for your previous lie?

    Cheney failed to do what the law requires. Period. End of story.
    He failed to call for objections.

  42. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 20, 2010 at 1:54 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Bob Ross,No answer as to the motivation for your previous lie?Cheney failed to do what the law requires. Period. End of story.He failed to call for objections.

    You have the video from the certifcation of the election? What does Cheney not calling for objections have to do with you thinking Obama does not meet the requirements to be president?

  43. avatar
    imabirthertoo July 20, 2010 at 2:00 pm #

    I don’t just think it is a ministerial duty, I know it!
    Maybe one of the lawyers who frequent your site can take the time to explain mandamus to you.

  44. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 20, 2010 at 2:00 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Many Obama defenders play the race card as if it were the wildward in their defense deck.

    Actually race isn’t really a card, since it has no value in the game. Birthers are not wrong because they are racists (or not) but rather because the evidence proves they’re wrong. Some folks try to explain why birthers are the way they are because of race. One might attribute conspiracy theory beliefs based on confirmation bias, and that bias could be based on:

    – Race
    – Religion
    – Liberal/Conservatism bias
    – Regionalism
    – Education Level
    – Economic angst
    – Cohort

    Percentagewise, more whites than blacks doubt Obama was born in the US. Applying that generalization (or any other) to any particular person is a fallacy.

  45. avatar
    BatGuano July 20, 2010 at 2:09 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Dr. Con: Pop culture???Your “pop culture” must be reliant on you own blog! That is the only place your culture exists. A Google search for “I’m not a doctor, but I have a master’s degree” results in your blog being the origin.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ask_Dr._Science

  46. avatar
    jamese777 July 20, 2010 at 2:09 pm #

    Here’s three simple questions that “I’mabirthertoo” should be able to answer:
    (1) Why did no member of Congress, with 534 (Minnesota hadn’t selected its junior senator yet) of them sitting there raise a point of order on Vice President Cheney not calling for objections to the certification of the Electoral College vote? The rules of both Houses of Congress allow for a point of order to immediately suspend regular business.
    (2) Why was the vote on the House Resolution on Hawaii’s 50th Anniversary of statehood which contained the phrase: “the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961” 378-0?
    (3) What is the motivation of a Republican Governor of Hawaii who endorsed and campaigned for John McCain to make the following statement: “You know, during the campaign of 2008, I was actually in the mainland campaigning for Sen. McCain. This issue kept coming up so much in the campaign, and again I think it’s one of those issues that is simply a distraction from the more critical issues that are facing the country. And so I had my health director, who is a physician by background, go personally view the birth certificate in the birth records of the Department of Health, and we issued a news release at that time saying that the president was, in fact, born at Kapi’olani Hospital in Honolulu, Hawaii. And that’s just a fact. And yet people continue to call up and e-mail and want to make it an issue. And I think it’s, again, a horrible distraction for the country by those people who continue this. … It’s been established. He was born here.”—Governor of Hawaii Linda Lingle (R)

  47. avatar
    Sef July 20, 2010 at 2:10 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Dr. Con: Pop culture???Your “pop culture” must be reliant on you own blog! That is the only place your culture exists. A Google search for “I’m not a doctor, but I have a master’s degree” results in your blog being the origin.

    Apparently “imabirthertoo” has never heard of “Doctor Science”.

  48. avatar
    Jules July 20, 2010 at 2:18 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Many of you must not know the law.I suggest you read Title 3, Chapter 1, Section 15.Bob Ross, Why did you just lie about Cheney calling objections?

    Cheney handled the count of the 2008 electoral college vote the same way that he handled the count of the 2004 electoral college vote. Any member who wished to make an objection could arise and state that he or she wished to make an objection.

    In 2005, Cheney did not specifically call for objections after each state’s certificate of the 2004 electoral college vote was announced. Rather, the one member making an objection, Stephanie Tubbs Jones, intervened and asked to be recognised. When asked why she arose, she stated that she wished to make an objection. The only difference between the session in 2005 and the session in 2009 is that no member arose to make an objection in 2009.

    No member of Congress has stated that they wished to make an objection in the 2009 session. In any case, if Cheney had been acting inappropriately by not soliciting any objections, then any member could have made a point of order. No member chose to do so.

    If an objection had been registered, the result would have been exactly the same as that of the objection that was registered in 2005. Neither Cheney nor anyone else would have had anything to fear from a registered objection other than the waste of Congressional time in debating it.

  49. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 20, 2010 at 2:20 pm #

    Sef: Apparently “imabirthertoo” has never heard of “Doctor Science”.

    Hey sef i havent either. It was before my time

  50. avatar
    Jules July 20, 2010 at 2:20 pm #

    Please accept the following in place of the first sentence of my last comment:
    “Cheney handled the count of the 2008 electoral college vote the same way that he handled the count of the 2004 electoral college vote.”

  51. avatar
    BatGuano July 20, 2010 at 2:23 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Hey sef i havent either.It was before my time

    nor had i ( also before my time ) and yet i was able to find reference with the quote in less than a few minutes.

  52. avatar
    imabirthertoo July 20, 2010 at 2:36 pm #

    Video of the 2005 electoral college vote no longer exists on YouTube. It was pulled in order to hide the failure to call for objections in 2009. How do I know it had been there? I watched it on YouTube.

    James, If you want to know motivation, I suggest you ask those involved. Governor Single is simply mistaken. She has never followed-up on that statement. It is not what Dr. Fukino stated.

  53. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 20, 2010 at 2:38 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Video of the 2005 electoral college vote no longer exists on YouTube. It was pulled in order to hide the failure to call for objections in 2009. How do I know it had been there? I watched it on YouTube.James, If you want to know motivation, I suggest you ask those involved. Governor Single is simply mistaken. She has never followed-up on that statement. It is not what Dr. Fukino stated.

    Ahhh it must be a conspiracy!!! We have to take your word for it. You do remember though that there were objections in the 2005 electoral college vote. There weren’t any in the 2009. So what exactly is your point? You haven’t made anything slightly resembling a cogent argument.

  54. avatar
    Majority Will July 20, 2010 at 2:41 pm #

    It was pulled in order to hide the failure to call for objections in 2009.

    Where’s your proof? You sure make a whole lot of unsubstantiated, straw man arguments and speculative claims.

    Do you know what that’s called?

  55. avatar
    imabirthertoo July 20, 2010 at 2:42 pm #

    Jules,

    That’s a lie! Cheney CALLED for objections in 2005. He did not do so in 2009.

  56. avatar
    Dave July 20, 2010 at 2:43 pm #

    imabirthertoo: I don’t just think it is a ministerial duty, I know it!
    Maybe one of the lawyers who frequent your site can take the time to explain mandamus to you.

    Thanks, they have. Maybe you could explain why you bring it up here.

    But perhaps more importantly, perhaps you could articulate a question of any importance that would be answered by viewing a photocopy of the President’s original birth record.

  57. avatar
    Majority Will July 20, 2010 at 2:43 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Video of the 2005 electoral college vote no longer exists on YouTube. It was pulled in order to hide the failure to call for objections in 2009. How do I know it had been there? I watched it on YouTube.James, If you want to know motivation, I suggest you ask those involved. Governor Single is simply mistaken. She has never followed-up on that statement. It is not what Dr. Fukino stated.

    Who is Governor Single? Where’s your proof? You’re making accusations. Back them up with credible evidence and not innuendo and vacuous speculations.

  58. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 20, 2010 at 2:44 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Jules,That’s a lie! Cheney CALLED for objections in 2005. He did not do so in 2009.

    Oh so first you say the 2005 video was pulled to hide his failure to call for objections because you saw the video now you say he called for objections. Make up your mind. What does any of that have to do with your belief that Obama does not meet the requirements to be president?

  59. avatar
    Dave July 20, 2010 at 2:49 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Jules,That’s a lie! Cheney CALLED for objections in 2005. He did not do so in 2009.

    You seem to be fabricating this charge of lying. Jules said the chair calls for objections if written objections are filed. As they were in 2001, and 2005, but not in 2009.

    Not to mention I can’t fathom where you’re trying to go with this insinuation that there was something untoward about Cheney failing to call for objections. It doesn’t seem to imply anything, but perhaps you could help us out.

  60. avatar
    jamese777 July 20, 2010 at 3:06 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Jules,That’s a lie! Cheney CALLED for objections in 2005. He did not do so in 2009.

    Why do you think that no member of Congress who wanted to submit a written objection to the Certification of Obama’s Electoral votes until an investigation of his qualifications as a natural born citizen were resolved simply stood up and raised a point of order?
    With an issue as important as this, don’t you think that even one member of Congress would have held a press conference, entered something in the Congressional Record or used the time allotted to each party at the close of business each day to address this important constitutional issue? Your response that the only way a written objection could be registered is if Cheney called for objections is just plain silly.

    Additionally ZERO members of the loyal opposition to the Obama presidency have filed suit against him on eligibility grounds; ZERO members of the loyal opposition have submitted an amicus brief in support of any Obama eligibility lawsuits and the one person in the United States who MIGHT be granted standing to sue Obama by being able to demonstrate injury in fact, John McCain, has refused to file suit, as has Sarah Palin or the Republican National Committee.

    Hawaii Congressman Neal Abercrombie was quite vocal about wanting to get members of the House on the record concerning Obama’s birthplace. That’s why he introduced the Hawaii 50th Anniversary resolution. The vote was 378-0. You neglected to give a birther rationalization for that fact.

    My explanation for Governor Lingle’s statement is that it was made nearly a year after Dr. Fukino’s last press release and 20 months after her first release. Dr. Fukino probably mentioned Kapi’olani in reporting back to Governor Lingle but when Lingle was being interviewed on the radio she simply didn’t remember the verbatim wording of a press release issued on July 29, 2009.

    In any event since the state of Hawaii has twice confirmed Obama’s birth in the state of Hawaii and no one has presented any credible evidence to the contrary, the point is moot.

  61. avatar
    Majority Will July 20, 2010 at 3:08 pm #

    Dave:
    You seem to be fabricating this charge of lying. Jules said the chair calls for objections if written objections are filed. As they were in 2001, and 2005, but not in 2009.Not to mention I can’t fathom where you’re trying to go with this insinuation that there was something untoward about Cheney failing to call for objections. It doesn’t seem to imply anything, but perhaps you could help us out.

    I think it’s one of those pedantic and sophistic speculations trying to indicate impropriety and the hint of conspiracy when those cracks are actually nothing more than meaningless, random shadows.

    Grasping at shadows seems to be a common birther meme.

  62. avatar
    Jules July 20, 2010 at 3:18 pm #

    imabirthertoo: I watched it on YouTube.

    imabirthertoo: Jules,That’s a lie! Cheney CALLED for objections in 2005. He did not do so in 2009.

    I watched the session live on C-SPAN and I strongly suspect that I have a better memory than you do. Why do I think this? Well, for one thing, there is video on YouTube of the reading of the certificate from Ohio in 2005 and Rep. Tubb Jones’ objection. Furthermore, it is consistent with the following section of the transcript of the session from the Congressional Record:

    Mr. NEY. Mr. President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the well-known and great State of Ohio seems to be regular in form and authentic, and it appears therefrom that George W. Bush of the State of Texas received 20 votes for President and DICK CHENEY from the from the State of Wyoming received 20 votes for Vice President.

    The VICE PRESIDENT. For what purpose does the gentlewoman from Ohio rise?

    Mrs. JONES of Ohio. Mr. Vice President, I seek to object to the electoral votes of the State of Ohio on the ground that they were not, under all of the known circumstances, regularly given and have a signed objection , and I do have a Senator.

    The VICE PRESIDENT. Has the Senator signed the objection ?

    Mrs. JONES of Ohio. Mr. Vice President, the Senator has signed the objection .

    The VICE PRESIDENT. An objection presented in writing and signed by both a Representative and a Senator complies with the law, chapter 1 of title 3, United States Code.

    The Clerk will report the objection .

    The only point on that page where you can find Dick Cheney asking for objections was when he asked, after Tubbs Jones had already made her objection, “Are there further objections to the certificate from the State of Ohio?” At no time did he ask if there were any objections before Tubbs Jones stated that she was making an objection. More importantly, the record does not indicate that Cheney asked at any time if there are any objections to the certificates from Alabama to North Dakota inclusive.

  63. avatar
    imabirthertoo July 20, 2010 at 3:21 pm #

    Gov. Lingle on Sarah Palin:

    Http:WWW.YouTube.com/watch?v=N5LzIdYv1zY

    Still want to rely on Lingle’s opinion?

  64. avatar
    jamese777 July 20, 2010 at 3:32 pm #

    I found the video of Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones objecting to the certification of Ohio’s 2004 Electoral College votes with the written concurrence of Senator Barbara Boxer of California. The exact same process could have occurred in 2009 if any member of Congress had simply stood up they would have been recognized.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdA1skqD0TY

  65. avatar
    sfjeff July 20, 2010 at 3:35 pm #

    Imabirther,

    You mention:
    1 Sure it is fear. George Washington, in his farewell address, told us to fear usurpationI

    a) I don’t find George Washington using those words in his final address- can you cite this?- he does say this regarding ‘parties’

    “24 It serves always to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration. It agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which find a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.”

    This sounds exactly like the Birther nonsense- ill-founded jealousies and false alarms’

    b) What foreign ‘ursurpation’ do you fear? Really. Answer this- if the COLB shows that Obama was born at home with a midwife, how would that make him an Ursurper? Let us go even further and say that he was born in Kenya, lived there 3 days before his mother travelled 12,000 miles to Hawaii, forged his documents and never told him he was born in Kenya. If Obama never knew he was not born in the United States would he still be an ursurper?

    Or do you think that Obama is some sort of sleeper agent of Kenya’s, slipt into the United States to convert us to Islam? Because if someone went to that much trouble, I sort of suspect they would have remembered to also doctor up the original birth certificate too.

  66. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 20, 2010 at 3:48 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Still want to rely on Lingle’s opinion?

    Would that be an ad hominem argument I smell?

  67. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 20, 2010 at 3:54 pm #

    Jules: At no time did he ask if there were any objections before Tubbs Jones stated that she was making an objection. More importantly, the record does not indicate that Cheney asked at any time if there are any objections to the certificates from Alabama to North Dakota inclusive.

    I love those documented facts, sweeter than grapes from the vine.

  68. avatar
    Black Lion July 20, 2010 at 3:56 pm #

    Lakin….

    LTC Lakin Speaks (Again)
    By Christopher Mathews, July 19, 2010
    The birther-palooza continues this week with the release of another video by Army LTC Terry Lakin. LTC Lakin is currently under charges for failing to deploy and to obey several other orders and claims that he based his refusal on what he says are “reasonable arguments that President Obama may not have been born on American soil.” Lakin contends that the certificate of live birth attesting to the President’s birth in Honolulu has been altered, making it “not admissible in court as evidence.” He argues the President is refusing to let the public or the press see his original certificate and proclaims “To me, that isn’t right.”

    Lakin says he “invited” a court-martial because he did not see Congress or the courts “stepping up to the plate” to address the question of the President’s eligibility. The Congress, of course, certified the electoral college vote prior to the President’s inauguration and the courts have repeatedly rejected prior birther suits; but Lakin does not mention these facts in the video or explain why these are not in his view examples of stepping up. Lakin also does not explain why he believes he was entitled to disobey the orders of his immediate superiors or his deployment orders while at the same time exercising the authority of his own rank and drawing a military paycheck. Perhaps these issues will be addressed in a future video release, or during his cross-examination.

    While mostly a rehash of the accused’s former statements, the video does contain one interesting nugget of information: Lakin says “If the original birth certificate is released and validated, I would gladly deploy immediately.” Putting aside the question of what sort of “validation” would be required (the video is silent on that point), it appears that he has for now decided not to pursue any of the various other birther theories of Presidential disqualification.

    http://www.caaflog.com/2010/07/19/ltc-lakin-speaks-again/

    Ama Goste says:
    July 20, 2010 at 8:44 am (Quote) If you’re the prosecutor, you plan your case as you do any other failure to obey situation. You line up the commander who ordered Lakin to deploy, have the judge rule that this was a valid, legal order, and then you object to all the irrelevant evidence Lakin’s counsel tries to admit. Once the judge determines this was a legal order, the members aren’t allowed to question or reevaluate the lawfulness of the order.

    John O’Connor says:
    July 20, 2010 at 9:05 am (Quote) In addition to whjat Ama Goste and Snuffy say, I would line up witnesses to testify as to several of the orders Lakin gave or obeyed since President Obama’s inauguration (e.g., someone to say he accepted pay, gave orders to nurses and clerks, showed up for work every day at the clinic). If the word “birth certificate” shows up at all in the defense’s case, and isn;t ruled irrelevant, I’d use it on rebuttal. Or, if not usable on the merits, I’d use it in sentencing, either as aggravation or as rebuttal to Lakin’s birther commentary (which surely will come up in sentencing and probably should be admissible in sentencing).

    Agree with Snuffy’s sentencing argument themes. I would add the theme (which members like in my experience) that each soldier doesn’t get to decide which rules must be followed and which ones don’t. I would ask for confinement because I think there’s a better than middling chance you’d get it (argue that this guy shouldn’t get to go home and sleep in his bed while some poor guy is sleeping on a cot in Iraq).

  69. avatar
    SluggoJD July 20, 2010 at 3:57 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Dave,If who signed off as attending the birth was insignificant, I doubt that a government document identifying such would exist.I never stated that the person who attended Obama’s birth had lied. I would have no way of knowing that. By the same token, you would have no reason to know that the person had been truthful.As for Orly Taitz:I’m a northern, and I would not vote for her.

    LOL, this one thinks it’s smart – throw up a bizarro “what if,” leading to a 50/50 standoff about truth.

  70. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 20, 2010 at 3:58 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I love those documented facts, sweeter than grapes from the vine.

    Birther still hasn’t stated what the point was to this whole argument about calling for objections, etc.

  71. avatar
    sfjeff July 20, 2010 at 4:02 pm #

    Imabirther, so tempting to go over each one of you statements- and i tried but lost my post. So let me recap for you:

    a) Obama posted a copy of his COLB for the general public
    b) Obama was elected by a large majority of voters
    c) Obama was elected by the Electoral College
    d) Obama was confirmed by Congress
    e) Obama was sworn in by Chief Justice Roberts
    f) Obama is our legally elected President
    g) Dr. Fukino has directly stated that President Obama was born in Hawaii
    i) There are two contemporary birth announcements that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    What do we know from this?

    That voters overwhelmingly believed Senator Obama was eligible, as did Congress and
    that the evidence- his posted COLB, the DOH announcements and the birth announcements all support the voters belief.

    I cannot help that you still have doubts. You imply- but never state- that if you saw a copy of the original birth certificate held by the DOH- that you would no longer have doubts if it showed Obama was born in a hospital in Hawaii, but there is no reason to assume that this would relieve the doubts of any other Birthers. Nor does the President have any obligation to satisfy your particular curiousity.

    Think about the house of cards your ‘doubts’ are built upon
    a) Fukino is either lieing or unable to realize the original BC doesn’t show Obama was born in Hawaii
    b) The Governor of Hawaii either being complicite or incompetant when she stated she had confirmed Obama was born in Hawaii
    c) Fraud on the part of Obama’s mother and grandparents
    d) Congress either being too afraid to object or in collusion(all of them) to elect Obama
    e) Chief Justice Roberts being too weak willed to resist swearing in a President he knows is not eligible.
    f) The RNC, including Micheal Steele are part of the conspiracy of silence.
    g) Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and the rest are all part of the conspiracy

    Do you really believe that all of this happened?

  72. avatar
    jamese777 July 20, 2010 at 4:03 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Gov. Lingle on Sarah Palin:Http:WWW.YouTube.com/watch?v=N5LzIdYv1zYStill want to rely on Lingle’s opinion?

    Yes, definitely.
    But its not what you or I rely on that matters. Its what judges and justices rely on in rendering actual legal decisions and when defendants’ legal briefs are able to contain supportive and confirmatory declarations from Governors, Directors of state Health Departments and Registrars of Vital Records, judges and justices tend to believe those statements as facts and not “opinions.” That’s probably why the birther score card is Obama:69/Birthers: 0 in adjudications. That includes 8 rejections for the birthers at the Supreme Court of the United States in being granted Petititions for Writs of Certiorari.
    The above is particularly true when the Governor, the Attorney General and the appointed governmental officials are of the opposing political party to the president in question.

  73. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 20, 2010 at 4:05 pm #

    sfjeff: Imabirther, so tempting to go over each one of you statements- and i tried but lost my post. So let me recap for you:a) Obama posted a copy of his COLB for the general publicb) Obama was elected by a large majority of votersc) Obama was elected by the Electoral Colleged) Obama was confirmed by Congresse) Obama was sworn in by Chief Justice Robertsf) Obama is our legally elected Presidentg) Dr. Fukino has directly stated that President Obama was born in Hawaiii) There are two contemporary birth announcements that Obama was born in Hawaii. What do we know from this?That voters overwhelmingly believed Senator Obama was eligible, as did Congress andthat the evidence- his posted COLB, the DOH announcements and the birth announcements all support the voters belief. I cannot help that you still have doubts. You imply- but never state- that if you saw a copy of the original birth certificate held by the DOH- that you would no longer have doubts if it showed Obama was born in a hospital in Hawaii, but there is no reason to assume that this would relieve the doubts of any other Birthers. Nor does the President have any obligation to satisfy your particular curiousity.Think about the house of cards your doubts’ are built upona) Fukino is either lieing or unable to realize the original BC doesn’t show Obama was born in Hawaiib) The Governor of Hawaii either being complicite or incompetant when she stated she had confirmed Obama was born in Hawaiic) Fraud on the part of Obama’s mother and grandparentsd) Congress either being too afraid to object or in collusion(all of them) to elect Obamae) Chief Justice Roberts being too weak willed to resist swearing in a President he knows is not eligible.f) The RNC, including Micheal Steele are part of the conspiracy of silence.g) Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and the rest are all part of the conspiracy Do you really believe that all of this happened?

    Don’t forget that the most outspoken person against Obama, Dick Cheney must be in collusion because he didn’t call for objections.

  74. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 20, 2010 at 4:06 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Video of the 2005 electoral college vote no longer exists on YouTube. It was pulled in order to hide the failure to call for objections in 2009.

    Since others here had no problem finding the video, I think your assertion that the video “was pulled in order to hide the failure to call for objections in 2009” is fairly busted. But even if the video were not available, what besides an overactive imagination would make one thing yours would have been the correct reason?

  75. avatar
    SluggoJD July 20, 2010 at 4:11 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Stupid autocorrect

    You should get that OCD checked out – it leaves some mighty dangerous footprints online, for those who covet anonymity.

  76. avatar
    Rickey July 20, 2010 at 4:11 pm #

    Jules:Well, for one thing, there is video on YouTube of the reading of the certificate from Ohio in 2005 and Rep. Tubb Jones’ objection. Furthermore, it is consistent with the following section of the transcript of the session from the Congressional Record:

    Well done, Jules. Nothing squelches a birther’s argument better than irrefutable facts!

  77. avatar
    Dave July 20, 2010 at 4:13 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Gov. Lingle on Sarah Palin: … Still want to rely on Lingle’s opinion?

    You have completely lost me here. Are you stating that, in your opinion, Lingle’s support for Palin makes her an unreliable source? Do you think this about all of Palin supporters?

  78. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 20, 2010 at 4:14 pm #

    imabirthertoo: I don’t just think it is a ministerial duty, I know it!

    Oh my, an exclamation point; it must be true (not really). The lawyers on this blog had that discussion a year ago. Nope, you’re wrong, and blustering will not get you out of it.

  79. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 20, 2010 at 4:16 pm #

    imabirthertoo: our “pop culture” must be reliant on you own blog! That is the only place your culture exists. A Google search for “I’m not a doctor, but I have a master’s degree” results in your blog being the origin.

    Birthers are such literalists (and such inept researchers). [Come on, Doc. That was uncalled for.]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ask_Dr._Science

  80. avatar
    Majority Will July 20, 2010 at 4:17 pm #

    sfjeff: Imabirther, so tempting to go over each one of you statements- and i tried but lost my post. So let me recap for you:a) Obama posted a copy of his COLB for the general public
    b) Obama was elected by a large majority of voters
    c) Obama was elected by the Electoral College
    d) Obama was confirmed by Congress
    e) Obama was sworn in by Chief Justice Roberts
    f) Obama is our legally elected President
    g) Dr. Fukino has directly stated that President Obama was born in Hawaii
    i)There are two contemporary birth announcements that Obama was born in Hawaii.
    What do we know from this?That voters overwhelmingly believed Senator Obama was eligible, as did Congress and
    that the evidence- his posted COLB, the DOH announcements and the birth announcements all support the voters belief.
    I cannot help that you still have doubts. You imply- but never state- that if you saw a copy of the original birth certificate held by the DOH- that you would no longer have doubts if it showed Obama was born in a hospital in Hawaii, but there is no reason to assume that this would relieve the doubts of any other Birthers. Nor does the President have any obligation to satisfy your particular curiousity.Think about the house of cards your doubts’ are built upon
    a) Fukino is either lieing or unable to realize the original BC doesn’t show Obama was born in Hawaii
    b) The Governor of Hawaii either being complicite or incompetant when she stated she had confirmed Obama was born in Hawaii
    c) Fraud on the part of Obama’s mother and grandparents
    d) Congress either being too afraid to object or in collusion(all of them) to elect Obama
    e) Chief Justice Roberts being too weak willed to resist swearing in a President he knows is not eligible.
    f) The RNC, including Micheal Steele are part of the conspiracy of silence.
    g) Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and the rest are all part of the conspiracy
    Do you really believe that all of this happened?

    You left out George W. Bush, Attorney General Michael Mukasey and the Departments of State and Justice under the Bush administration.

  81. avatar
    bjphysics July 20, 2010 at 4:18 pm #

    Found the 2004 Electoral College vote count video on C-SPAN. Video has sound problems.

    http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/185007-1

  82. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 20, 2010 at 4:19 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: imabirthertoo: our “pop culture” must be reliant on you own blog! That is the only place your culture exists. A Google search for “I’m not a doctor, but I have a master’s degree” results in your blog being the origin.Birthers are such literalists (and such inept researchers). [Come on, Doc. That was uncalled for.]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ask_Dr._Science

    Come on you can’t expect our friend Dr. Doogie Mason MD, JD. here to do actual research

  83. avatar
    SluggoJD July 20, 2010 at 4:20 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Video of the 2005 electoral college vote no longer exists on YouTube. It was pulled in order to hide the failure to call for objections in 2009…

    It was those damn aliens! They’re always making google links disappear, you tube videos disappear, beaming 3-day old babies from Kenya to Hawaii…

  84. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 20, 2010 at 4:21 pm #

    SluggoJD: It was those damn aliens! They’re always making google links disappear, you tube videos disappear, beaming 3-day old babies from Kenya to Hawaii…

    And they would have gotten away with it if it wasn’t for those meddling kids and their dog too!

  85. avatar
    Rickey July 20, 2010 at 4:25 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Birther still hasn’t stated what the point was to this whole argument about calling for objections, etc.

    The birthers seem to believe that it constitutes a technical violation of the procedure for counting the electoral votes, and therefore the count was deficient and invalid. Of course, no court would ever agree with them, but when has that ever stopped them?

    Of course, as I pointed out in a note above, Title 3 doesn’t require the Vice-President to ask if there are any objections; he only has to call for objections if there are any. So the procedure which Cheney followed with Rep. Jones was the correct procedure. She rose, made it known that she had an objection, and Cheney confirmed that it was in writing and was signed by both a Senator and a Representative.

  86. avatar
    Sef July 20, 2010 at 4:30 pm #

    Rickey: Of course, no court would ever agree with them

    Not only wouldn’t agree with them, but also wouldn’t have any say in what happens in Congress.

  87. avatar
    Domokun July 20, 2010 at 4:40 pm #

    My plan to make money off Crazy isn’t working. imabirthertoo has been posting for more than a day, and not one of us is profiting. imabirthertoo must send us all a dollar. Dr. C, it’s time for the PayPal button.

  88. avatar
    Majority Will July 20, 2010 at 4:50 pm #

    Domokun: My plan to make money off Crazy isn’t working. imabirthertoo has been posting for more than a day, and not one of us is profiting. imabirthertoo must send us all a dollar. Dr. C, it’s time for the PayPal button.

    Every time a birther demands that either the President or I should have to prove one of their ridiculous arguments I want a dollar and I’ll donate it to Organizing For America.

    http://my.barackobama.com

  89. avatar
    ellid July 20, 2010 at 4:51 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Everyone who voted for Obama has a stake in his defense. Confirmation bias is not a fault attributed only to those with whom you disagree. The really sad part is that Obama’s most dedicated defenders (a handful of people) will dismiss any anomaly as meaningless.When things don’t make sense, there is usually good reason for them to not make sense.(Kind of like Dr. Con, making sure to state that he has a master’s degree, while remaining anonymous.) Many here would likely say that they are sure he is telling the truth. Some know that he is not.Deciding what one is willing to accept, on one’s word alone, is personal choice. For many Obots it may be their personal belief that Obama was born in Kapi’olani. They would even struggle to admit that such a belief is based solely on the word of the one whom it benefits (Obama). To-date no one who was a witness to the event has come forward. Nor has any documentation been presented that would support that claim. Believing it or not is a personal choice. It is nothing more than that. Yet some will go so far as to mock others who choose not to believe it. That’s the product of fear, and an effort to intimidate others.Why just yesterday, I came across a statement posted by “bovril” on another site where he/she found some importance in the residents of Hawaii believing Obama was born there. If these people were sharp enough to recognize only what has been presented, they would only claim that Obama’s birth was registered in Hawaii. Anything more is pure speculation. **For those who might be a slow, the newspaper announcements are only supportive of a birth being registered. They do nothing to support the factuality of that report.Which birth registration would you consider to be more reliable; one attended by a physician, one attended by a midwife, or one attended by a family member? Which one of those is the case for Obama? Are you going to tell me that you don’t know? If you are going to be truthful; you must. Your confirmation bias may permit you to accept hospital birth as fact, but only arrogance and fear will permit you to expect others to do so.I can understand why those who question Obama find a need to post anonymously, but I cannot understand why those who support him would find that same need. Perhaps it alone is what gives them license to laugh.I’m an MD with a JD, and I would like to see these questions resolved. Why? Because there is no rational reason for them to remain unresolved. I and many like me don’t consider the position of commander in chief of the most powerful military in the world to be a position in which the full background of the applicant should not be required to be open for examination.

    the outpatients are out in force today, I see…..

  90. avatar
    ellid July 20, 2010 at 4:53 pm #

    If i’mabirthertoo is black, he must be one of those unfortunates who attends “Bishop”
    Manning’s little cult in New York.

  91. avatar
    imabirthertoo July 20, 2010 at 4:55 pm #

    Rickey,

    Your suggestion that objections must be filed before the count is even read is ludicrous. The statute does not call for prefiling. Does it?

    Domokun,

    My first post ever to this site was at 10:46 this morning. How you get more than a day out of that is beyond me. Is there such a thing as Obot math?

  92. avatar
    Jules July 20, 2010 at 5:00 pm #

    The URL to the linked section of the Congressional Record has expired (as all searches on the site expire after 30 minutes). You can find the result by going to thomas.loc.gov and searching for the word “electoral” in the 109th Congress for the date 01/06/2005.

    I have again retrieved all the pages that include the 2005 joint session counting the electoral vote up to and including the objection to the votes from Ohio. I have not retrieved the full debate in either house on that particular objection. I have also retrieved the portion of the reconvened joint session after each house had voted upon the objection to the Ohio vote.

    I have clicked “GPO’s PDF” for each page to save it as a PDF. You can do the search that I describe above to verify that the PDFs found here, here, here, here, and here are genuine.

    Could imabirthertoo identify where:
    1. Cheney called for objections in 2005 to any state’s electoral vote certificate before Tubbs Jones stated that she was making an objection; and
    2. There is anything whatsoever in 2005 about objections to any state’s electoral vote certificate other than Ohio’s.

    I suggest to imabirthertoo that he may wish to acknowledge that he was mistaken about the 2005 joint session, or at least that he ought not have accused me of dishonesty.

  93. avatar
    Joey July 20, 2010 at 5:11 pm #

    imabirthertoo 20. Jul, 2010 at 4:55 pm imabirthertoo(Quote) # Rickey,

    Your suggestion that objections must be filed before the count is even read is ludicrous. The statute does not call for prefiling. Does it?

    Did you happen to watch the YouTube video of how it actually happened in 2005? Its very instructive.
    Its the video that you said was no longer available due to a conspiracy.

  94. avatar
    Majority Will July 20, 2010 at 5:14 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Rickey,Your suggestion that objections must be filed before the count is even read is ludicrous. The statute does not call for prefiling. Does it?Domokun,My first post ever to this site was at 10:46 this morning. How you get more than a day out of that is beyond me. Is there such a thing as Obot math?

    More meaningless sophism. Do you have a point or will you continue nitpicking a non-point into oblivion?

    “My first post ever to this site was at 10:46 this morning. How you get more than a day out of that is beyond me.”

    Based on the pointless rambling, it probably just seems like a whole lot longer.

  95. avatar
    AnotherBird July 20, 2010 at 5:40 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Video of the 2005 electoral college vote no longer exists on YouTube. It was pulled in order to hide the failure to call for objections in 2009. How do I know it had been there? I watched it on YouTube.James, If you want to know motivation, I suggest you ask those involved. Governor Single is simply mistaken. She has never followed-up on that statement. It is not what Dr. Fukino stated.

    2005 is 2005. 2009 is 2009. Please don’t get the years mix up, as it show that you are continue to grasping for straws here.

  96. avatar
    AnotherBird July 20, 2010 at 5:53 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Stupid autocorrect!As for Orly Taitz:I’m a birther, but I would not vote for her. The Obots must assume that I would not vote for her is because she is a white woman. Isn’t that the reason most of you would not vote for her?

    There you go again playing the race card, but them you decide to through in sexism for good measure.

    There are many more competent Conservative women politicians and leaders to vote for over Orly Taitz. However, she lacks the discipline and patience to aspire to any elected office.

  97. avatar
    sfjeff July 20, 2010 at 5:59 pm #

    As a Democrat, I would love to vote for Orly Taitz. I can think of nothing that would more strongly reinforce the notion that the Republican Party has become the party of the extreme- and whacky- right- and drive moderates to the Democratic Party than having Orly Taitz standing on the podium with Meg Whitman.

    Alas, Republicans saw through my strategy and nominated a non-crazy person.

  98. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 20, 2010 at 6:31 pm #

    Jules: I suggest to imabirthertoo that he may wish to acknowledge that he was mistaken about the 2005 joint session, or at least that he ought not have accused me of dishonesty.

    Awww, can’t we call him a liar? Please? Please? Please?

  99. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 20, 2010 at 6:33 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Is there such a thing as Obot math?

    No, but there is such a thing as birther tedium.

  100. avatar
    Jules July 20, 2010 at 6:47 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Awww, can’t we call him a liar? Please? Please? Please?

    Well, it’s your blog, so you make the rules. I had been under the impression that you tended to disapprove of commenters accusing each other of lying.

    Perhaps I have watched the Parliament Channel too much and now err on the side of avoiding unparliamentary language.

  101. avatar
    sfjeff July 20, 2010 at 7:12 pm #

    To: imabirthertoo:

    If you come visit us again, please be prepared for honest dialogue.

    What do I mean? Present your case, and be prepared to cite your source. If you just have a generalized ‘doubt’ then be intellectually honest enough to prioritize evidence over doubts. If you present something that is shown to be wrong, admit it.

    If you find a nit to pick(we don’t know he was born in a hospital) explain why that detail makes you doubt the evidence that you do know about.

    And finally, please be sure to explain why you have these doubts about this President, rather than all previous Presidents.

    So come play again, and as always be prepared.

  102. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 20, 2010 at 7:35 pm #

    sfjeff: If you [imabirthertoo] come visit us again, please be prepared for honest dialogue.

    The FCC regulations for using CB radio had a sensible rule: listen before talking. When visiting a new online community, I find it useful to listen for a while to see if the folks there know more than I do. It’s like the parable Jesus told:

    Luke 14: 7-11 Gaus: And he made this comparison for the guests, noticing how they picked out the choicest seats for themselves: “When you sit down to the banquet at someone’s wedding, don’t sit at the head table, in case some more honored guest than you has been invited, and the one who invited both him and you comes and says, ‘Give this person your seat,’ and then you have to get up red-faced and go to the very back. But when you’re invited someplace, go sit down in the back, so that when your host comes he’ll say to you, ‘Dear friend! Please come up front!” That way it will be an honor for you in front of all your fellow-guests, because the one who exalts himself will be humbled and the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

  103. avatar
    brygenon July 20, 2010 at 8:56 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Awww, can’t we call him a liar? Please? Please? Please?

    I’d say not just yet. Give him a bit longer to issue the appropriate retractions and apologies.

  104. avatar
    Majority Will July 20, 2010 at 9:13 pm #

    brygenon:
    I’d say not just yet. Give him a bit longer to issue the appropriate retractions and apologies.

    Maybe he’s having a hard time sitting down.

  105. avatar
    Majority Will July 20, 2010 at 9:57 pm #

    It looks like Republican birthers Nathan Deal and John Oxendine are out of the race for Governor of the state of Georgia. Hopefully.

  106. avatar
    Rickey July 21, 2010 at 1:19 am #

    imabirthertoo: Rickey,Your suggestion that objections must be filed before the count is even read is ludicrous. The statute does not call for prefiling. Does it?

    I never made any such suggestion. What I said is that the objections must be made in writing and must be signed by at least one Senator and at least one Representative. Common sense tells us that in order to fulfill the “in writing” requirement, any objections have to be prepared in advance (unless you believe that it is likely that someone would be hurriedly scribbling an objection while the count is underway). I never said that they have to be filed in advance. In the case of the 2005 count, the objection was made during the count and it was made before Cheney said anything about objections.

  107. avatar
    Keith July 21, 2010 at 1:23 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Since others here had no problem finding the video, I think your assertion that the video “was pulled in order to hide the failure to call for objections in 2009‘ is fairly busted. But even if the video were not available, what besides an overactive imagination would make one thing yours would have been the correct reason?

    Since imabirthertoo has been rather liberal with calling people liars, there is also the problem of living in a glass house and throwing stones.

  108. avatar
    misha July 21, 2010 at 2:00 am #

    imabirthertoo: My first post ever to this site was at 10:46 this morning.

    imabirthertoo: I have read your comments, and saw you have a MD and JD. That’s an excellent combination for countering the arguments here.

    I want to help you. I found a Kenya BC (Obama’s?), that I think will help you in your quest.

    Thanks for visiting.

  109. avatar
    Lupin July 21, 2010 at 3:32 am #

    imabirthertoo: When things don’t make sense, there is usually good reason for them to not make sense.

    Irony is truly dead, isn’t it?

  110. avatar
    AnotherBird July 21, 2010 at 4:23 am #

    imabirthertoo: When things don’t make sense, there is usually good reason for them to not make sense.

    That is what has been said about birtherism. It just doesn’t make sense when all the facts and the laws are considered.

  111. avatar
    Black Lion July 21, 2010 at 10:19 am #

    More birther politican nonsense….

    From the Post and Fail, an interview with NH senator Laurence Rappaport…Something funny early in the morning….Sharon Rondeau must be looking for employment with WND, I mean some of her questions make you want to laugh….I wonder what ever happened to Charlton……

    MRS. RONDEAU: In the article which John Charlton had written about you, he mentioned two different documents which you had brought to Attorney General Delaney. One was the Lucas Smith purported Kenyan birth certificate. Were you able to find the second document?

    REP. RAPPAPORT: I was not able to put my hand on it. One of the problems is that as a state representative, I have absolutely no staff. Normally I can put my hands on things, but this has been going on since well before I was a representative. So papers are all over the place. But I know what the document was.

    MRS. RONDEAU: What did it look like?

    REP. RAPPAPORT: There were two documents. One of them appeared to be the actual birth certificate with a footprint on it, and that’s the one that’s been around all over the place. The other one is a document which appeared to be the registration. Besides the birth certificate, there’s a registration which occurs at the province level, and that’s what that was. That showed the birth of Obama in Kenya, and it lists the father and mother, but it was a registration. However, I feel as if the document everyone wants to see is the birth certificate itself. Then, in addition to that, everybody wants to see transcripts from his college enrollment. The reason is that some have claimed that when Obama attended Occidental College, he was there as a foreign student and he got a scholarship or some financial aid as such. If that is true, and he said, “I’m not; I’m an American,” then if nothing else, he’s guilty of lying. Either you were or you weren’t; there’s nothing in between.

    MRS. RONDEAU: WorldNetDaily had reported that the purported Kenyan birth certificate was a forgery. Were they correct about that?

    REP. RAPPAPORT: They’re wrong. Their analysis was absolutely not conclusive, because I was involved in that. I don’t know that it’s not a forgery, but I know that WorldNetDaily’s basis for that, in my judgment, was wrong. They did not prove that it was a forgery to me.

    MRS. RONDEAU: I don’t think they obtained a professional analyst’s statement about it.

    REP. RAPPAPORT: It was something along the lines of the way it had been obtained was very questionable; there were a lot of “ifs” that were involved in it. But we have never seen his actual birth certificate, and many people have Certifications of Live Birth from Hawaii who weren’t American, such as Sun Yat-Sen – he has one! Well, that tells you a lot about how accurate those are. All you have to do to get one is write to the Health Department and say that you were born on such-and-such a day at such-and-such a time. Frankly, there’s more authenticity to the birth announcement than the Certification of Live Birth. I believe it appeared in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin.

    MRS. RONDEAU: The announcement appeared in both the Star-Bulletin and the Honolulu Advertiser, within a day of each other, which I understand is extremely rare.

    REP. RAPPAPORT: Unless, of course, you were trying to do it, in which case it would be very easy. It doesn’t prove anything simply because you write a letter announcing the birth of someone, and then they just print it.

    MRS. RONDEAU: And it doesn’t say his name, nor is there a record that the parents were ever married.

    REP. RAPPAPORT: Yes, I know that. The point is that as long as Obama is able to perpetuate this nonsense and protect it, and as long as the Democrat Party is willing to accept it…there’s enough evidence available such that nobody is going to say it’s legitimate unless they have a reason to. The best news that I got was the fact that the Democrats seem to be getting fed up with him, too. If that happens, he’s in a lot of trouble.

    MRS. RONDEAU: There have been many reports that he attended college as a foreign student, which would have meant that he had foreign citizenship and perhaps a foreign passport.

    REP. RAPPAPORT: Or he was lying. After all, we have a Secretary of the Treasury who is an admitted income tax cheat, so one would say that you shouldn’t have liars and cheats elected to office, particularly for something like this.

    MRS. RONDEAU: Do you think all of these bills have been passed to give the federal government a larger role in private industry?

    REP. RAPPAPORT: Absolutely. I don’t think there’s any question. If you look at what has happened over the last year and you listen to Obama’s very clear message of One World Government heading towards socialism, it’s obvious. The interesting thing is, though, that the opinion of leaders throughout the world about Obama couldn’t be worse. He went to Scandinavia to get the Olympics moved to Chicago; he failed. He’s failed at every single thing he’s done, every single worldwide thing he’s done.

    Now how is this good? My own opinion is that we don’t need a military presence in 130 countries in a place like Korea, for example, where we have something like 30,000 troops. Excuse me, but I thought that police action ended in the ’50s. Well, here it is, 2010, at least 50 years later: shouldn’t they be taking care of themselves? We can certainly have a treaty with them, but we shouldn’t be there trying to protect them.

    MRS. RONDEAU: And Jefferson warned us about “foreign entanglements.”

    REP. RAPPAPORT: That’s right. And the point is, nobody has more entangling foreign alliances than we do. My goodness, it’s everywhere!

    MRS. RONDEAU: Is that another thing that could be addressed by voting in a new Congress?

    REP. RAPPAPORT: Yes, it could. Let’s say, God forbid, that the union dissolves because there’s nobody left to support it, and you have essentially a conglomeration of states: then each one is independent. What happens then? What a horrible scenario. It seems as if that’s where we’re heading. Now Obama and his people don’t seem to care; they don’t seem to be aware that this could happen. They think that it’s so bad that it never could come to pass, but honestly, there are more and more people who are thinking that way.

    Every 90 days or so, the U.S. Treasury auctions off its debt. In the past, the big buyers have been the Asians, principally the Chinese and the Japanese. But they’re not doing it now. The one I analyzed about six months ago was bought by the Federal Reserve in the amount of about 60%. In economic terms, that’s called monetarizing the debt, and it’s the first step in major inflation, called hyperinflation. This is what’s happened, so the question is: Even if they were to stop spending today, just exactly who is going to buy this debt? Nobody wants it anymore. And the status of the U.S. currency as a world currency, which it always has been, is now for the first time in jeopardy. The average guy on the street doesn’t realize how serious that is, and bailing out the banks is not going to help. People are going to have to buy this debt, and you can’t force other people in the world to buy it.

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/07/19/nh-rep-laurence-rappaport-speaks-with-the-post-email-about-eligibility-the-constitution-and-state-sovereignty/

  112. avatar
    AnotherBird July 21, 2010 at 11:18 am #

    Black Lion: REP. RAPPAPORT: There were two documents. One of them appeared to be the actual birth certificate with a footprint on it,

    Why do they continue to repeat arguments that have been found to be false? It was proven that the “footprint” was false. It is all birther crazy nonsense.

  113. avatar
    sfjeff July 21, 2010 at 1:06 pm #

    Wow- whole lots of wrong in that interview.

  114. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 21, 2010 at 2:06 pm #

    Black Lion you got someone pretending to be you now over at the citizen site

    http://www.thecitizen.co.tz/magazines/32-political-platform/2708-zanzibar-could-reverse-trend-to-have-president-from-pemba.html

  115. avatar
    Rickey July 21, 2010 at 2:29 pm #

    Speaking of birther crazy, Oh For Goodness Sake blog has a new entry which catalogs “The Stoopidest Things Taitz Had Done,” and the winner is her latest filing with SCOTUS.

    http://ohforgoodnesssake.com/?p=11681

  116. avatar
    Domokun July 21, 2010 at 2:39 pm #

    imabirthertoo: Rickey,Your suggestion that objections must be filed before the count is even read is ludicrous. The statute does not call for prefiling. Does it?Domokun,My first post ever to this site was at 10:46 this morning. How you get more than a day out of that is beyond me. Is there such a thing as Obot math?

    It felt like forever and a day, but I was wrong, and I’m sorry.

    Where’s our dollar? Upping it to two now. Coming at you like the paper boy from Better Off Dead

  117. avatar
    Black Lion July 21, 2010 at 2:41 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Black Lion you got someone pretending to be you now over at the citizen sitehttp://www.thecitizen.co.tz/magazines/32-political-platform/2708-zanzibar-could-reverse-trend-to-have-president-from-pemba.html

    Bob, thanks for the heads up. I guess I hit a nerve with someone. That “Black lion’s” comments are so far off base from what I would say or believe…..

  118. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 21, 2010 at 2:51 pm #

    Black Lion: Bob, thanks for the heads up. I guess I hit a nerve with someone. That “Black lion’s” comments are so far off base from what I would say or believe…..

    Yeah I think its one of our birthers here because they were pretending to be Dr Conspiracy as well

  119. avatar
    Domokun July 21, 2010 at 3:05 pm #

    Anyone live in NH? State should demand Rappaport clean his desk to find that “registration” document. It’s a conspiracy that Obama can’t provide The Crazy all the requested documents, but it’s just poor housekeeping when it comes to state reps:

    “Do you have that document that will bring down this presidency?”

    “I have it somewhere in my office…on this desk or in a box under the desk…or at the home office, but it’s too messy, and I don’t have time to clean it. I just found a week old doughnut , though…oh man, Desk Doughnuts are the best.”

    “That’s okay. I believe you without question. What’s it look like.”

    “Like a piece of paper with writing on it. Like this one I’m holding in my hand only with a bunch of words that say Obama is a big fat Kenyan liar. I win.”

    “Good enough for me.”

  120. avatar
    Black Lion July 21, 2010 at 4:10 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Yeah I think its one of our birthers here because they were pretending to be Dr Conspiracy as well

    Those idiots at that site are still going with the same discredited stories and lies, especially with Obama violated the Logan act and how did he pay to travel to kenya to campaign for Odinga….I guess they are getting their information from our buddies at WND….

    Corsi Repeats Discredited Lies About Obama, Kenya
    Topic: WorldNetDaily

    In a July 19 WorldNetDaily article repeating discredited claims that a proposed new Kenyan constitution is a significant expansion of abortion rights, Jerome Corsi reached into his little bag of Obama smears and repeated false claims about what he claimed are “Obama’s links to [Kenyan prime minister Raila] Odinga”:

    The Obama administration’s funding of Kenyan internal politics appears to follow a pattern then-Sen. Obama first set on his 2006 Senate-funded visit to Kenya.

    During that trip in 2006, Obama campaigned so openly for Odinga that Kenyan government spokesman Alfred Mutua went on Kenyan television on behalf of Kenyan President Kibaki to object that Obama was meddling inappropriately in Kenyan politics, as WND reported.

    WND reported in 2008 that Obama raised almost $1 million for Odinga during the run-up to Kenya’s 2007 presidential election.

    Obama did not campaign for Odinga. As PolitiFact.com noted when Corsi made the same claim in his anti-Obama book:

    What we can confirm is that Obama has remained neutral in Kenyan politics, and did not support Odinga during his trip. Odinga attended some of Obama’s events while Obama was in Kenya, and clearly wanted to associate himself with Obama, but there is no evidence to indicate that Obama “openly supported” Odinga.

    […]

    Corsi states that Obama “openly supported” Raila Odinga. We found public statements from Obama during the trip saying the exact opposite. We found no other evidence to support Corsi’s statement, so we rate his statement False.

    Further, as we detailed in 2008 when Corsi first told this lie, Obama did not raise “almost $1 million for Odinga.” The documents Corsi is relying on to support the claim are clearly forged (and PolitiFact.com busted it as well).

    Corsi implies that Obama has acted on behalf of Odinga because he is “a Luo tribesman like Obama’s father.” In fact, as PolitiFact noted, Obama “gave a high-profile speech the need for the country to move beyond corruption and tribal rivalries. This undercuts Corsi’s theory that Obama was motivated by his Luo tribal heritage.”

    http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/blog/

  121. avatar
    Black Lion July 21, 2010 at 4:14 pm #

    Domokun: Anyone live in NH? State should demand Rappaport clean his desk to find that “registration” document. It’s a conspiracy that Obama can’t provide The Crazy all the requested documents, but it’s just poor housekeeping when it comes to state reps: “Do you have that document that will bring down this presidency?”“I have it somewhere in my office…on this desk or in a box under the desk…or at the home office, but it’s too messy, and I don’t have time to clean it. I just found a week old doughnut , though…oh man, Desk Doughnuts are the best.”“That’s okay. I believe you without question. What’s it look like.”“Like a piece of paper with writing on it. Like this one I’m holding in my hand only with a bunch of words that say Obama is a big fat Kenyan liar. I win.”“Good enough for me.”

    It is amazing how anyone or any piece of information that validates or supports Obama is vilified and automatically dismissed while any crackpot can make up anything they want about the President and as long as it is negative it is automatically believed or considered the gospel….Amazing….This guy claims he has some document and no one demands that he produce it. While the birthers are demanding that Obama produce documents that do even exist….Only in birtherland, where you are guilty until proven innocent and the burden of proof is on the accused….Yet these are the same people who claim to be Constitutional patriots….

  122. avatar
    sfjeff July 21, 2010 at 4:17 pm #

    Imabirther was another one day wonder.

    As in I wonder what name he will use the next time he posts the same ‘questions’

  123. avatar
    Domokun July 21, 2010 at 4:19 pm #

    Two dollars.

  124. avatar
    G July 21, 2010 at 4:24 pm #

    Black Lion:
    Bob, thanks for the heads up.I guess I hit a nerve with someone.That “Black lion’s” comments are so far off base from what I would say or believe…..

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Yeah I think its one of our birthers here because they were pretending to be Dr Conspiracy as well

    Yeah, I suspect is totally what is going on over there. Definitely one of the trolls from here sockpuppeting. I wouldn’t put it past Sven – he’s known for using various handles.

    I noticed they also had a “G” posting, who speaks nothing like me, which then the Fake Black Lion comes in to quote to back up his junk birther concern trolling.

    So yeah, the pattern seems fairly clear. Some poor birther’s fee-fees have been too hurt here that they have to cowardly go on to other sites where they suspect we might never go to catch them to try to use our handles to spread their lame propaganda.

    Pathetic and lame if you ask me. Also, just further evidence that they can’t handle the heat in debate over here.

    BTW, I’ve been out on vacation and just recently got back and spending a little time catching up, so this is my first post here or anywhere since at least July 9th.

    In summary of what I’ve seen so far, it seems mostly more of the same old crazy in birther land.

    More failed birther nuttiness in courts (especially where Orly is concerned) and Mario’s 95 page ridiculous response, which seems to only increase his chance of receiving sanctions.

    At this point, I’m predicting between $5 K to $10 K for Mario’s eventual sanctions

  125. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 21, 2010 at 4:30 pm #

    Ha he’s spoofing you again Black Lion

  126. avatar
    SluggoJD July 21, 2010 at 9:06 pm #

    G: Yeah, I suspect is totally what is going on over there.Definitely one of the trolls from here sockpuppeting.I wouldn’t put it past Sven – he’s known for using various handles.I noticed they also had a “G” posting, who speaks nothing like me, which then the Fake Black Lion comes in to quote to back up his junk birther concern trolling.So yeah, the pattern seems fairly clear.Some poor birther’s fee-fees have been too hurt here that they have to cowardly go on to other sites where they suspect we might never go to catch them to try to use our handles to spread their lame propaganda.Pathetic and lame if you ask me.Also, just further evidence that they can’t handle the heat in debate over here.BTW, I’ve been out on vacation and just recently got back and spending a little time catching up, so this is my first post here or anywhere since at least July 9th.In summary of what I’ve seen so far, it seems mostly more of the same old crazy in birther land.More failed birther nuttiness in courts (especially where Orly is concerned) and Mario’s 95 page ridiculous response, which seems to only increase his chance of receiving sanctions.At this point, I’m predicting between $5 K to $10 K for Mario’s eventual sanctions

    Lucas and his goon squad, nothing more. That article was one of Lucas’ favorite links a few days ago.

  127. avatar
    Black Lion July 21, 2010 at 9:35 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Ha he’s spoofing you again Black Lion

    Bob, I see that and I commented. I bet it is one of our friends from here that we had debated and eviserated with facts regarding Obama and the lack of birther evidence, especially James or one of the other infamouse sock puppets over here….

  128. avatar
    Preston July 22, 2010 at 6:00 pm #

    Poor little Birthers (still in denial about their losses), but the Judge will continue to smack down the crazies . To all the birthers in La, La Land, it is on you to prove to all of us that your assertion is true (TOUGH WHEN YOU KEEP LOSING CASES), if there are people who were there and support your position then show us the video (everyone has a price), either put up or frankly shut-up. I heard Orly Taitz, is selling a tape (I think it’s called “Money, Lies and Video tape”). She is from Orange County, CA, now I know what the mean when they say “behind the Orange Curtain”, when they talk about Orange County, the captial of Conspiracy Theories. You know Obama has a passport, he travel abroad before he was a Senator, but I guess they were in on it.

    In my opinion the Republican Party has been taken over the most extreme of clans; the Baggers, Birthers and Blowhards (people who love to push their beliefs on others while trying to take away the rights of those they just hate) and that’s who they need to extract from their party if they real want to win in November. Good Luck, because as they said in WACO, “We Ain’t Coming Out”.

    I wonder if Orly Taitz, is a mail order bride, just like her law degree? She is perfect reporter material for “Fake News”, where unfounded rumors and innuendo reign supreme, unlike a our US courts of law. The way our courts work is that you get a competent lawyer, verifiable facts and present them to a judge, if the facts are real and not half baked lies, then, and only then, you proceed to trial. The Birthers seem to be having a problem with their so called facts that they present. Let’s face it no one will go along with you until you guys win a case, but until then, you will continue to appear dumb, crazy or racist, or maybe all three. A lawyer, dentist, realtor and black belt, WOW I must say a JACK of all trades master of none.

    I heard that Orly Taitz, now wants to investigate the “Republican 2009 Summer of Love” list: Assemblyman, Michael D. Duvall (CA), Senator John Ensign (NV), Senator Paul Stanley (TN), Governor Mark Stanford (SC), Board of Ed Chair, and Kristin Maguire AKA Bridget Keeney (SC), she wants to re-establish a family values party, good luck with that.

    We won the election and now these sore losers will continue to spew their hate with lies.

  129. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 22, 2010 at 8:29 pm #

    Preston: wonder if Orly Taitz, is a mail order bride, just like her law degree?

    Do you have any idea how many hits you get on Google for: “I wonder if she, is a mail order bride, just like her law degree” taitz

  130. avatar
    Majority Will July 22, 2010 at 10:03 pm #

    I wonder how many birthers are afraid to go to sleep because of the noise of lots of planes over their houses between 2 and 5 am?

    Whirled Nut Daily should run a survey.

  131. avatar
    Dave July 22, 2010 at 10:22 pm #

    Speaking of birther crazy, someone posting as “yguy” has been posting up a storm over at CAAFlog. He seems to be trying to convince these military law experts that the judge will allow LTC Lakin discovery, and when they don’t agree, he argues with them. When they still don’t agree, he gets petulant:

    After all, only a racist would look askance at the “dog ate the birth certificate” story, right?

    which is all the more odd because nobody had suggested racism, not to mention that nobody had mentioned a dog.

    I am baffled at what motivates this behavior. What will happen will happen. What does he hope to gain by pestering the experts? It can’t change the outcome. If yguy is so sure he’s right, he could just smugly sit there and wait to be vindicated. Why the need to argue, especially with people who obviously know infinitely more about the subject?

  132. avatar
    Majority Will July 22, 2010 at 11:34 pm #

    Dave: Why the need to argue, especially with people who obviously know infinitely more about the subject?

    IANAD, but it sure sounds like . . .

  133. avatar
    G July 23, 2010 at 12:23 am #

    Dave: Speaking of birther crazy, someone posting as “yguy” has been posting up a storm over at CAAFlog. He seems to be trying to convince these military law experts that the judge will allow LTC Lakin discovery, and when they don’t agree, he argues with them. When they still don’t agree, he gets petulant:

    …Why the need to argue, especially with people who obviously know infinitely more about the subject?

    That definitely sounds just like the behavior of the “yguy” who posts here. He’s just a troll for the sake of being a troll.

  134. avatar
    sfjeff July 23, 2010 at 1:46 am #

    “with people who obviously know infinitely more about the subject?”

    No one knows more, or understands common sense more, or what the Constitution really, really means than Yguy

  135. avatar
    bovril July 23, 2010 at 6:12 am #

    I wondered why he had gotten petulant then very quiet when I started playing with him over at Rational.

    Must go over and poke at my new chew toy.

  136. avatar
    BigGuy July 23, 2010 at 10:26 am #

    Yeah, he got pretty petulant at CAAFlog. He starts out sounding calm and almost rational, but he can chase his tail only so long before he starts losing it.

    His argument over there seemed to be that not only is discovery warranted in the Lakin case, but that the judge would insist on having the Hawaii DOH retrieve the 47-year-old hard copy of the birth records (assuming it exists — and if it doesn’t, “How about if every DoH employee who had access to those records years were deposed?”)

    I guess it’s no wonder that he couldn’t maintain that posture for long.

  137. avatar
    Black Lion July 23, 2010 at 12:07 pm #

    In regards to being “birther crazy”, we have winner as JB Williams over at the CFP…A worse rag than the Post and Fail or WND….

    http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/12999

    Since the most powerful people in America fear the wrath of Obamanation, maybe you should too! They are indeed a dangerous bunch, after all…

    Every member of the Supreme Court, every member of congress, every member of the Joint Chiefs, most members of the DOD, CIA, FBI, Secret Service and state run media, ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, PBS, NPR, MSNBC, Fox and print news, knows that Barack Hussein Obama does NOT meet Article II – Section I constitutional requirements for the office he holds. By his own biography, there is NO way he can pass the test. The hard evidence is so far beyond overwhelming, it is ridiculous.

    But not ONE member of America’s most powerful people will dare confront Obama and his anti-American cabal on the subject. The Constitution does NOT stand. Do you think there is no reason for this?

    The Basic Facts
    Barack Hussein Obama is foreign born, period (Kenya)
    Regardless of his birth place, his parents had foreign loyalties (strike 2)
    He has foreign loyalties, demonstrated in every policy decision (strike 3)
    He’s not Christian, but Muslim
    He’s not “black,” but Arab
    There is NO U.S. birth certificate, other than the forged COLB
    NO Hawaiian hospital will confirm his birth place (he has named two)
    His policies are designed to destroy the Constitutional Republic, not to uphold or defend (strike 4)
    He won’t go away without a blood bath
    These are the basic facts as they exist today. This is the basis for where we are headed…

    And as dicussed yesterday, here is where FOX and the people like Brietbart become responsible because their flagging of non-stories allow foolishness like this to be written….Fake increase of Black on White violence stories with ACORN or the fake New Black Panther party as the heavies….

    “Racially Motivated Violence
    At every opportunity, the left is pushing the race card. The left MUST HAVE a divided nation at war with itself. It is the foundation of their power.

    When people oppose Obama, it isn’t because he’s completely unqualified for office, or because his policies are aligned with Karl Marx and Saul Alinsky instead of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams. It’s because “he’s black,” even though he isn’t “black.”

    Yet it was Obama supporters who overlooked everything else to “make history” and elect a candidate strictly on the basis of his alleged race. No more blatant act of racism has ever taken place in America.

    We already see a dramatic increase in random acts of racially motivated violence cropping up in cities across the country. ACORN and Black Panther types sense that this is their moment in history to put the “white man” in his proper place, under their jackboot. These folks DO NOT represent the black community. Only an extreme left violent portion of that community. In Obama’s words, “America is no longer a Christian nation, or even a sovereign nation.” In the words of his black nationalist brethren, “this is a black nation now!”

  138. avatar
    Black Lion July 23, 2010 at 12:25 pm #

    Look who is getting some “love” over at the Free Republic world….

    To: tired_old_conservative
    You may find some comfort in the following:

    I found what I was looking for:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/07/birther-crazy/

    imabirthertoo 20. Jul, 2010 at 11:45 am

    Bob Ross, (if that is your real name I must applaud your courage)

    Why the need to initially respond with an attack on the substance of my comment?

    Fear? Sure it is fear. George Washington, in his farewell address, told us to fear usurpation.

    Was George wrong to consider such to be guarded against?

    I know the fears of millions of Americans could’ve been laid to rest, and I know who has the ability to make that happen. Obama

    I don’t dislike Obama. I never have. I think he was the breath of fresh air that this country needed.

    Why is it that people think you must dislike him in order to find a need to question him?

    Steadfast defense of the unknown is the way many deal with their fear of an outcome they would rather avoid.

    I have seen it too many times.

    For example, those who developed interstitial lung disease, after many years of smoking, are more likely to blame their exhaustion on getting older.

    They don’t want the truth.

    Seeking the truth is the only effective way to address a problem.

    Many Obama defenders play the race card as if it were the wildward in their defense deck.

    As an African-American, I find this disgraceful.

    It only serves to delegitimize every valid complaint.

    Obama, by failing to nip this thing in the bud, has damaged race relations in this country.

    (yes yes yes!!! That’s what I said!)

    What makes the cries of racism worse is that they are predominantly being made by white folks who have never been subjected to racism.

    I grew up in the south. I’ve seen racism up close and personal.

    Questioning Obama is not a matter of race.

    Playing the race card to defend him against all questions is the very essence of racism.

    82 posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2010 12:39:59 PM by rosettasister

  139. avatar
    Majority Will July 23, 2010 at 1:11 pm #

    Dave:
    Amen to that.One of the things that causes me to waste too much time reading birther websites is my fascination with the way sane people can make their brains completely abandon rational thought.Let me try to help you out. You spend quite a few words attempting to construct a justification for disbelieving the birth certificate that we’ve all seen. You proceed by raising hypothetical possibilities and then making insinuations about them — e.g. maybe the birth was attended by a midwife, and if so, maybe the midwife lied. Here’s what you are overlooking — the Hawaiian birth certificate is clear evidence that the President was born in Hawaii. What clear evidence is there that he wasn’t? Answer — not one single shred. Which makes we wonder, what is your basis for your belief that the President wasn’t born in Hawaii, since it isn’t evidence?And I am amused by your comment that the President’s supporters are “a handful of people”. Do you have evidence for that, or is that just another belief? Let’s note that when Orly Taitz ran for SoS of CA on a birther platform, the number of people sufficiently motivated to register Republican and vote for her was about 3% of registered voters. Not all of them are necessarily birthers, but let’s be generous and go with the whole 3%. I would not call birthers a “handful”, but I certainly would say 3% is a numerically insignificant fringe.

    “Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can’t understand.”

    – Jean Fran§ois Paul de Gondi, Cardinal de Retz (September 29, 1613 – August 24, 1679)

  140. avatar
    sfjeff July 23, 2010 at 1:19 pm #

    I suspect Imabirther is quoting himself in other blogs after his dump and run here.

  141. avatar
    Jules July 23, 2010 at 1:27 pm #

    sfjeff: I suspect Imabirther is quoting himself in other blogs after his dump and run here.

    Does this mean that he won’t retract his false accusation that I lied?

    It’s funny how people can be quicker to accuse you of lying than they are to check the record.

  142. avatar
    Black Lion July 23, 2010 at 2:55 pm #

    More birther insanity, courtsey of the Post and Fail…

    A TALE OF A “FLAWED” BIRTH CERTIFICATE NOW THREATENING OUR CONSTITUTION AND OUR COUNTRY…

    “Previously, to satisfy all challenges to his eligibility, Obama posted a document on the “Daily Kos” website, claiming it to be a true copy of his original Hawaiian birth certificate. Was this the “transparency” he promised America? It seemed so until questioners pointed out that his posted document, titled “Certification of Live Birth” (COLB) had the birth certificate number blacked out, contained no birth hospital name, no attending physician, no birth witnesses, etc. All required…all missing! An actual 1961 Certificate of Live Birth contained approximately 41 “fill-in” items. Obama’s document…13 ! When his deception was uncovered he immediately had his records declared off-limits to anyone. “Transparency” flew out the window.

    The only Hawaiian document conferring natural-born status was a Certificate of Live Birth, which would have had all the above missing information on it. A “Certification of Live Birth (COLB) only confers, at best, a naturalized-citizenship status. Obama, a Constitutional scholar, was aware of this and knew that he could not allow the Hawaiia Department of Health original birth certificate to be seen, for if it agreed (as he claimed) with the COLB he had posted on Daily Kos, he was ineligible to seek the Presidency; hence, a reason for his spending (to date) over two million dollars (I repeat-over two million dollars) in legal fees to prevent disclosure! Had it been a true “Certificate of Live Birth,” he would have posted it immediately…unless it contained something incriminating.”

    “Bill O’Reilly of Fox News repeatedly mocked anyone asking Obama to release his original birth certificate to public scrutiny, falsely telling his national audience that Fox “could have easily obtained a copy of it,” yet never explained why this never happened. It was because Obama had his records sealed from view, including viewing by Fox News. O’Reilly was either woefully ignorant of this, kept it hidden, or was restrained from mentioning it. He also boasted that his show was “fair and balanced” and “the spin stops here.” Praiseworthy attributes but always absent when the eligibility issue arose. Most saddening was when he and Megyn Kelly did a recent show on LTC Lakin’s impending court-martial. The entire segment consisted of their sarcastically denegrating LTC Lakin, causing me to reflect on another of Bill’s slogans:”We’re looking out for you.” With such friends the Colonel needed no enemies!”

    And then the infamous birther tactic, lack of evidence is evidence of the conspiracy….

    “Whenever his attorneys appeared in court to defend him, they always seemed to have forgotten to bring a copy of his original Certificate of Live Birth, instead claiming Plaintiffs or Courts had “no standing.” If that’s true, then who is left “with standing”: only Obama?

    Every document, from Obama’s original birth certificate, school records, passport, medical records, etc. is kept hidden from everyone. Must a house fall upon us to wake us up? Keep in mind that if that happens we may not wake up in time.”

    If the withheld documents would truly confirm Obama’s eligibility, as his supporters contend, why won’t any member of the Democrat Party (particularly the vocal ones who dismiss the eligibility issue) suggest that the documents be made public?

    When Obama defenders claim eligibility arguments are racially-motivated, are they including the lawsuit of Alan Keyes and all other blacks who are challenging Obama, and would they also include all whites who voted against him?

    Recently, “The Globe” magazine offered to donate $100,000 to the United Negro College Fund if Obama would disclose his Hawaiian original birth certificate. Now there’s a “stimulus” package which should warm his heart, for it would help many young black men and women, yet The Globe’s phone still hasn’t rung.”

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/07/21/once-upon-a-crime-an-open-letter-to-america/

    This comment really sums up the motivation of the birthers….Comments like “our White House”, “dragging MIchelle out”, shows that this goes beyond the BC issue. There is a deep hatred for the entire Obama family. Just look at FOX, read the birther blogs, or some of the other radical conservative sites like Atlas Shrugs and you will see what it is really about….

    The Obama Timeline’s author says:
    Thursday, July 22, 2010 at 4:44 PM
    I have sent copies of my book, The Obama Timeline, to members of the Supreme Court, various members of Congress, and various members of the media. It is the most complete (638 pages) and thoroughly researched (thousands of references) history of the thug-in-chief’s fraudulent rise to power.

    To date, thousands of Americans have been swayed by the evidence, but those who can do something about it have remained silent.

    But as the thug’s approval ratings fall even the Democrats will be eager to get rid of him. Eventually someone will release a document or issue a statement or make a ruling… and the entire house of cards will collapse. Quickly.

    I hope someone will be there with a video camera to record Michelle Obama’s shrieking as she is taken by force out of our White House.

  143. avatar
    Majority Will July 23, 2010 at 3:03 pm #

    “contained no birth hospital name, no attending physician, no birth witnesses, etc. All required…all missing!”

    And every time I’ve asked a birther about the hospital name being a “requirement” and then to name every birth hospital for every President before Carter, they either ignore it or move the goal posts to something else.

  144. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 23, 2010 at 3:12 pm #

    Black Lion: Look who is getting some “love” over at the Free Republic world….To: tired_old_conservative
    You may find some comfort in the following:I found what I was looking for:http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/07/birther-crazy/imabirthertoo 20. Jul, 2010 at 11:45 amBob Ross, (if that is your real name I must applaud your courage)Why the need to initially respond with an attack on the substance of my comment?Fear? Sure it is fear. George Washington, in his farewell address, told us to fear usurpation.Was George wrong to consider such to be guarded against?I know the fears of millions of Americans could’ve been laid to rest, and I know who has the ability to make that happen. ObamaI don’t dislike Obama. I never have. I think he was the breath of fresh air that this country needed.Why is it that people think you must dislike him in order to find a need to question him?Steadfast defense of the unknown is the way many deal with their fear of an outcome they would rather avoid.I have seen it too many times.For example, those who developed interstitial lung disease, after many years of smoking, are more likely to blame their exhaustion on getting older.They don’t want the truth.Seeking the truth is the only effective way to address a problem.Many Obama defenders play the race card as if it were the wildward in their defense deck.As an African-American, I find this disgraceful.It only serves to delegitimize every valid complaint.Obama, by failing to nip this thing in the bud, has damaged race relations in this country.(yes yes yes!!! That’s what I said!)What makes the cries of racism worse is that they are predominantly being made by white folks who have never been subjected to racism.I grew up in the south. I’ve seen racism up close and personal.Questioning Obama is not a matter of race.Playing the race card to defend him against all questions is the very essence of racism.82 posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2010 12:39:59 PM by rosettasister

    Haha it figures. It is a dump and run. I would post a response but I’ve already been banned from FreeRepublic after making just one post on the birther issue. Someone on facebook got into an argument with me and when he lost on every point he took it to FreeRepublic. Where I beat him down there and was subsequently banned.

  145. avatar
    AnotherBird July 23, 2010 at 3:17 pm #

    Black Lion: The only Hawaiian document conferring natural-born status was a Certificate of Live Birth, which would have had all the above missing information on it. A “Certification of Live Birth (COLB) only confers, at best, a naturalized-citizenship status.

    There are times I wounder if birthers are suffering from a mental disorder. I know that it isn’t true, but they always seem to make absolutely no sense. These people don’t want Obama to be a natural born citizen.

  146. avatar
    AnotherBird July 23, 2010 at 3:29 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Haha it figures.It is a dump and run.I would post a response but I’ve already been banned from FreeRepublic after making just one post on the birther issue.Someone on facebook got into an argument with me and when he lost on every point he took it to FreeRepublic.Where I beat him down there and was subsequently banned.

    This is something I grown to notice about polite discord. Some sites are more interested in spreading false information will ban any dissenting opinion. You will notice that all the comments are supportive, or in agreement with no dissenting comment. It even gets as bad as seeing only comments from one person on YouTube, as if they are arguing with a invisible person.

  147. avatar
    sfjeff July 23, 2010 at 3:37 pm #

    “A “Certification of Live Birth (COLB) only confers, at best, a naturalized-citizenship status. Obama,”

    Do they hire fiction writers to make this stuff up?

    At a certain point when can we politely say- “Everything you have stated is a bald faced lie”?

  148. avatar
    Black Lion July 23, 2010 at 4:01 pm #

    More birther crazy…You have to wonder if these individuals have mental issues….This right wing group is attempting to impeach the President because of the phrase he uses…Really?

    http://www.faithandfreedominstitute.com/

    “It is with great concern that we have watched your rhetorical shift in terminology, choosing to use the phrase “freedom of worship” rather than “freedom of religion.” We’ve noted your use of that phrase (“freedom of worship”) at the Ft. Hood memorial service in November of 2009, as well as your utilization of the same during speeches in Japan and China.

    While some may deem the words “worship” and “religion” to be synonymous, and thus interchangeable, they are most definitely not! The First Amendment of the United States Constitution uses the word “religion” and states unequivocally that Congress cannot prohibit the “free exercise” of said “religion.” Your use of the word “worship” implies that we have freedom ONLY within the confines of structures set aside for religious expression (i.e. churches, synagogues, etc.). This is not only a gross departure from the original intent of the First Amendment, but is also the first step toward eliminating faith expression in the public marketplace (i.e. display of religious symbols on public land, printing of religious materials for the purpose of evangelizing, public discussion of faith, etc.).

    Mr. President, we call on you to retract all past use of this incorrect and misleading phrase, “freedom of worship,” and cease all future use of the same. We also call on you to acknowledge America’s Christian heritage as is clearly evidenced in our Founding Documents and the overwhelming abundance of statements from our Founding Fathers.

    But on the off chance that doesn’t work, it looks like the group has a back-up plan – impeachment:

    According to Article II, Section 4 of the United States Constitution, the President of the United States “shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.” It is the opinion of the members of The Faith and Freedom Institute that the current President of the United States of America, Barack H. Obama, has compiled a number of personal offenses that qualify him for impeachment from the office of the presidency. Among those offenses are the following:

    A. The act of not providing a clear copy of his official and complete birth certificate indicating that he is a natural born citizen of the United States of America as is called for in Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution where it reads, “No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States…shall be eligible to the office of the President.”

    B. The act governing contrary to the spirit of the Constitution by the establishing of numerous “czars” who have no accountability to Congress, but who answer to the President alone.

    C. The act of subverting United States sovereignty by bowing to the King of Saudi Arabia.

    D. The intrusive act of confiscating private industry, (i.e., the take over of General Motors Corporation, Chrysler, and Bank of America – even dictating employees salaries), thereby making them accountable to the President alone.

    E. The incessant desire to develop a civilian militia or military style organization that would be “as well funded and organized as the United States military,” to operate exclusively at the discretion of the President.

    F. The overt attempt to force national health care on businesses and individuals, who oppose such, through creating a public health care option that would place individual insurance companies in competition with the United States Government.

    G. The act of disregarding the law of the United States of America by not publicly recognizing the National Day of Prayer which was signed into law in 1952 by President Harry S. Truman.

    H. The act of appointing to high level positions persons of questionable integrity who display treasonous animosity toward the United States (i.e., Van Jones, former “Environmental Czar”; Kevin Jennings, “Safe School Czar”; FCC head Mark Lloyd, etc.) and whose actions violate the letter and spirit of our national philosophy.

    I. The act of violating the oath of the presidency by neglecting to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America.

  149. avatar
    Majority Will July 23, 2010 at 4:26 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    . . . and was subsequently banned.

    I consider that a badge of honor. How dare you disagree with their delusional fantasies!

  150. avatar
    Majority Will July 23, 2010 at 4:30 pm #

    “B. The act governing contrary to the spirit of the Constitution by the establishing of numerous “czars” who have no accountability to Congress, but who answer to the President alone.”

    How many “czars” did other Presidents going back to Roosevelt employ?
    [end rhetorical question]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._executive_branch_czars

  151. avatar
    G July 23, 2010 at 5:14 pm #

    AnotherBird:
    There are times I wounder if birthers are suffering from a mental disorder. I know that it isn’t true, but they always seem to make absolutely no sense. These people don’t want Obama to be a natural born citizen.

    I totally think it is a mental disorder.

  152. avatar
    Dave July 23, 2010 at 5:31 pm #

    Black Lion: [Quoting faithandfreedominstitute.com] G. The act of disregarding the law of the United States of America by not publicly recognizing the National Day of Prayer which was signed into law in 1952 by President Harry S. Truman.

    These people can’t even raise a trivial point without getting it completely wrong.

    Presidential Proclamation–National Day of Prayer

  153. avatar
    sfjeff July 24, 2010 at 1:12 am #

    I swear, half of their points could be applied to the last 4 or 5 Presidents. Are they really this clueless or just blinded by their hatred of the President?

  154. avatar
    G July 24, 2010 at 1:43 am #

    sfjeff: I swear, half of their points could be applied to the last 4 or 5 Presidents. Are they really this clueless or just blinded by their hatred of the President?

    Yes and Yes.

  155. avatar
    AnotherBird July 24, 2010 at 4:20 am #

    Black Lion: More birther crazy…You have to wonder if these individuals have mental issues….This right wing group is attempting to impeach the President because of the phrase he uses…Really? …

    A. to I. are pathological false, false characterization, factual misrepresentations, and just plain wrong.

    A. Done and confirmed by Hawaii.

    B. “czars” is a title given to an administrative official, where there were more under the previous president than the current.

    C. I wonder if holding hands or kissing is better. There is nothing like showing respect to foreign dignitaries.

    D. Yeah. The government should all private industry to fail.

    E. No the civilian militia or military style organization is the act of the militias.

    F. Yes, hard working Americans should be denied health care.

    G. Separation of church an state comes to mind.

    H. Don’t forget all the birther with their argument that make truthers look like geninues.

    I. Got to love the those birthers. Just a bunch lunatic hypocrites.

    There is no point in to go into more detail since birthers are just disillusioned and willing to believe anything that supports their paranoia.

  156. avatar
    Lupin July 24, 2010 at 4:30 am #

    sfjeff: I swear, half of their points could be applied to the last 4 or 5 Presidents. Are they really this clueless or just blinded by their hatred of the President?

    As I explained the logic of the birther:

    1. N*** are dumb, lazy and shifty.

    2. No one dumb, lazy and shifty could be elected president.

    3. Therefore: FRAUD!

    Everything else is rationalization or delusion.

  157. avatar
    Sef July 24, 2010 at 8:58 am #

    Lupin: 2. No one dumb, lazy and shifty could be elected president.

    Unfortunately, the shrub is a counter proof.

  158. avatar
    Lupin July 24, 2010 at 10:09 am #

    Sef: Unfortunately, the shrub is a counter proof.

    Good point! 🙂

  159. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 24, 2010 at 12:53 pm #

    Lupin:
    Good point!

    I’ve noticed that lately with birthers. To get off the point that the previous president who they supported, grew up rich, had everything handed to him and failed miserably; they are now trying to portray Obama as some rich black guy who was given everything and earned nothing on his own.

  160. avatar
    Keith July 25, 2010 at 9:07 pm #

    A thought occurred to me this morning and that is an event rare enough that it stands out and demands consideration.

    Consider these two facts: (1) The next Presidential election is in 2012 and (2) The Mayan Calendar runs out in 2012.

    Wait for it, my point is a little more nuanced than what you are already thinking, and its actually on topic (I think).

    We know that many people think the Mayan calendar is pointing at an apocalypse in 2012 in spite of thoughtful people pointing out that the Mayans understood that their calender would just restart just like ours restarts every January. But these people see this as more evidence of the end times as discussed in “Revelations” and the specific date of The End Of The World As We Know It predictions are coming thicker and faster than ever. Here are just some from 2006: http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl1.htm (I just love the Glen Beck patented “poke, then retreat” and the WND sales report) and some more from 2009 and 2010: http://www.religioustolerance.org/endwrl22.htm and a more general discussion here: http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrld.htm. They are looking for evidence of the end times by looking for signs provided by John of Patmos (who may or may not have been the same John of the Gospel John) in Revelations.

    As I see it, the main problem with predicting TEOTWAWKI, other than that such predictions are always wrong, is that Jesus specifically said “no one knows, not the angels, nor the son, but only the father”. So this of course brings up a credibility problem right away. Who do you believe, John or Jesus? Religious opportunists pretending to understand a 2000 year old writer having hallucinatory visions in the last years of his life in exile, or the founding personality of your religion who just happens to be the son of God itself?

    So now back to paying lip service to being on topic at least. I notice there is an equivalent credibility issue with the birthers. They have to decide who to believe, a politician in Africa trying to score political points from an American President’s African ancestry, or the official who is the legally authorized keeper of the vital records.

    In both cases, a thoughtful person would identify the obviously correct choice of who to believe. Both birthers and rapturists (just a shorthand term, not intended to indicate that all Christian Apocalypse believers are rapturists – I guess this explanation sort of negates the claim of ‘shorthand’ though doesn’t it) manage to make the incorrect choice every time. Now I would never say the set of all birthers is congruent with the set of all apocalypse believers, but I am positive that there is considerable overlap between them.

    But I am positive that there is something to the 2012 coincidence though. After all how can you deny the numerology?

    Barrack = 7 letters = 6 + 1
    Hussein = 7 letters = 6 + 1
    Obama = 5 letters = 6 – 1

    7 + 7 + 5 = 19
    1 + 1 – 1 = 1
    19 – 1 = 18 = 6 + 6 + 6 -> the mark is hidden in the name!

    2 + 0 + 1 + 2 = 5
    2 * 012 = 24
    24 – 5 = 19 -> Obama’s name is encoded in the year!
    2 + 0 + 1 – 2 = 1
    19 – 1 = 18 = 6 + 6 + 6 -> the mark in hidden in the year!

    This is freaking me out, man.

    Misha, have you got any of those brownies left?

  161. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 25, 2010 at 9:49 pm #

    Keith: They are looking for evidence of the end times by looking for signs provided by John of Patmos (who may or may not have been the same John of the Gospel John) in Revelations.

    I think that except for the captive evangelical ones, Bible scholars do not think that the Apocalypse (or Book of Revelation) predicts the end of the world, but rather is written in a specific literary genre called apocalyptic, which uses images of cosmic conflict as an allegory of the troubles of the current age. Both Romans and Greeks used letters for numbers and 666 is basically Nero Caesar using the normal number/letter substitutions. The imagery are thinly obscured references to Rome and the persecution of Christians. Revelation does provide a generalized message of hope for those suffering persecution, but it was never intended to be a blueprint for the end of the world. A short, accessible treatment of the subject is Breaking the Code: Understanding the Book of Revelation by Bruce Metzger.

  162. avatar
    Keith July 25, 2010 at 10:51 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: A short, accessible treatment of the subject is Breaking the Code: Understanding the Book of Revelation by Bruce Metzger.

    Thanks, Doc. I actually found reference to that book on the OCRT site I linked above.

    Your confirmation leads me to decide that it will be the next Mythology related book I get. But first I gotta find a book that actually shows me how to work NetBeans or Eclipse to write something useful. Every time I try to knuckle down to do some learning about Java, I can’t figure out how to drive the darn IDE and end up giving up and going back to Delphi for the next 6 months.

  163. avatar
    G July 26, 2010 at 1:17 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I think that except for the captive evangelical ones, Bible scholars do not think that the Apocalypse (or Book of Revelation) predicts the end of the world, but rather is written in a specific literary genre called apocalyptic, which uses images of cosmic conflict as an allegory of the troubles of the current age. Both Romans and Greeks used letters for numbersand 666 is basically Nero Caesar using the normal number/letter substitutions. The imagery are thinly obscured references to Rome and the persecution of Christians. Revelation does provide a generalized message of hope for those suffering persecution, but it was never intended to be a blueprint for the end of the world. A short, accessible treatment of the subject is Breaking the Code: Understanding the Book of Revelation by Bruce Metzger.

    That is correct. One of my college honors classes was a scholarly study of the Book of Revelations and looking at the world in place around the time of its presumed writing. The most likely conclusion is that it was basically a coded criticism of both Nero and the leadership/direction being taken at some of the “rival churches” at that early stage in Christianity.

  164. avatar
    Keith July 26, 2010 at 5:12 am #

    G:
    That is correct.One of my college honors classes was a scholarly study of the Book of Revelations and looking at the world in place around the time of its presumed writing.The most likely conclusion is that it was basically a coded criticism of both Nero and the leadership/direction being taken at some of the “rival churches” at that early stage in Christianity.

    Yes, but it sounds like your ‘scholarly study’ approached it from just that one point of view. The Wikipedia article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation#Interpretations lists 10 major categories of interpretation views, some of which have several subset interpretation.

    For example, the Futurist view assigns the events to be taking place in the future and there are at least three subsets including the Pre-Tribulationist, the Mid-Tribulationist, and the Post-Tribulationist. The Preterist view holds that the prophesied events all took place in the 1st century. Then there is the Esoteric View, the Paschal Liturgical view, the Paschal Spiritual view, etc, etc

    You relate the “accepted” Academic view, but there are a lot of people who are not academics who have a belief structure about Revelations, and there is no reason to assume that anyone of them is the one true version.

    Contrary to Doc’s assertion that only ‘captured evangelicals’ try to read Revelations as a guide to the time line of the End of the World (in what I regard as a direct rejection of what they would otherwise consider to be the Authority, that is the teachings of Christ), the Jehovah’s Witnesses is a sect founded specifically on the prophecy of the precise date of TEOTWAWKI (of which there have been a series as each one has failed in turn).

    Anyway, I’m gonna get a hold of Metzger’s book and see what he has to say, because I’m fascinated by Mythology and its on my ‘hit list’ of stuff to study.

  165. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 26, 2010 at 8:03 am #

    Keith: Contrary to Doc’s assertion that only captured evangelicals’ try to read Revelations as a guide to the time line of the End of the World

    My reference to “captured evangelicals” refers to academic Bible scholars, not to the public at large.

  166. avatar
    Rickey July 26, 2010 at 3:10 pm #

    Speaking of birther crazy, Jack Ryan has posted the hearing exhibits from Walter Fitzpatrick’s arraignment, including Fitzpatrick’s State of Washington rap sheet.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/34886681/STATE-of-TENNESSEE-v-FITZPATRICK-Fitzpartrick-Arraignment-Hearing-Exhibits

    There is much lunacy to review. One thing which struck me is that Fitzpatrick was born in 1952 (per the rap sheet), which means that he was 33 when he graduated Annapolis in 1975. That made him roughly ten years older than the typical Annapolis graduate.

  167. avatar
    Black Lion July 26, 2010 at 3:29 pm #

    Rickey: Speaking of birther crazy, Jack Ryan has posted the hearing exhibits from Walter Fitzpatrick’s arraignment, including Fitzpatrick’s State of Washington rap sheet.http://www.scribd.com/doc/34886681/STATE-of-TENNESSEE-v-FITZPATRICK-Fitzpartrick-Arraignment-Hearing-ExhibitsThere is much lunacy to review. One thing which struck me is that Fitzpatrick was born in 1952 (per the rap sheet), which means that he was 33 when he graduated Annapolis in 1975. That made him roughly ten years older than the typical Annapolis graduate.

    I thought there was an age cutoff for acceptance in the Academy…..Either way it seems like his career was less than distinguished…

  168. avatar
    Black Lion July 26, 2010 at 3:40 pm #

    Ken Buck: Tea Partiers Questioning Obama’s Citizenship Are ‘Dumba**es’

    A Tea Party-backed Senate candidate in Colorado was caught on tape Friday referring to ‘birthers’ who question President Obama’s citizenship as “dumbasses.” Republican Ken Buck, who has harnessed Tea Party support to become the front-runner for the GOP Senate nomination, made the comment unsolicited to a Democratic staffer after an event in Pueblo, Colorado.

    He was unaware that the conversation was being recorded.

    “Will you tell those dumbasses at the Tea Party to stop asking questions about birth certificates while I’m on the camera,” Buck said to the staffer. “God, what am I supposed to do?”

    Buck told the Denver Post he regretted the language he used, but maintained that he has become frustrated by so-called ‘birthers’ who question the validity of Obama’s birth certificate.

    Buck said he considers ‘birthers’ to be a distraction.

    “After 16 months of being on the campaign trail, I was tired and frustrated that I can’t get that message through that we are going to go off a cliff if we don’t start dealing with this debt,” Buck said.

    Buck’s Republican opponent, Jane Norton, was quick to capitalize on the comments, calling Buck, “two steps short of a fraud.”

    “He’s a self-proclaimed Tea Partier who trashes tea partiers when he thinks no one is looking,” a Norton spokesman said in a statement.

    This is the second time in a week that Buck has been caught on camera making controversial statements. Last week, video surfaced of Buck jokingly telling a questioner at an event that they should vote for him because “he doesn’t wear high heels.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/25/ken-buck-tea-partiers-que_n_658728.html?ir=Politics

  169. avatar
    Majority Will July 26, 2010 at 3:46 pm #

    Black Lion:
    I thought there was an age cutoff for acceptance in the Academy…..Either way it seems like his career was less than distinguished…

    USNA Admissions

    Basic Requirements for Eligibility:

    United States citizen:

    Good moral character;

    At least 17 and not past their 23rd birthday on 1 July of the year they would enter the academy;

    Unmarried;

    Not pregnant; and

    No dependents.

    Admissions requirements might have been different in the 70s. OTOH, could it have taken someone a decade to get through the Academy for legitimate reasons?

  170. avatar
    SluggoJD July 26, 2010 at 3:57 pm #

    Heads up – “PetJake” is PooPooPolarik’s new sockpuppet!

    profiles.yahoo.com/polarik

    Just put that into the URL window and hit return.

  171. avatar
    Black Lion July 26, 2010 at 4:13 pm #

    Another right wing conservative drinks the birther Kool-Aid….

    “Quinn outs himself as a birther: “Obama is paying off” president of Kenya to keep his “birth certificate under wraps”

    http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201007260043

  172. avatar
    Majority Will July 26, 2010 at 5:06 pm #

    Black Lion: Another right wing conservative drinks the birther Kool-Aid….“Quinn outs himself as a birther: “Obama is paying off” president of Kenya to keep his “birth certificate under wraps”http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201007260043

    Once again, that’s pretty insulting to the administration of the state of Hawaii.

  173. avatar
    Rickey July 26, 2010 at 5:09 pm #

    I was hallucinating. Fitzpatrick was 23 when he graduated Annapolis, so nothing out of the ordinary there.

  174. avatar
    Majority Will July 26, 2010 at 5:10 pm #

    A Republican Senate candidate in Colorado, who has positioned himself as the Tea Party favorite, could be in trouble after calling activists who harp on the issue of President Obama’s birth certificate “dumbasses.”

    The Denver Post obtained the audio recording that it says shows Ken Buck complaining about fringe activists known commonly as birthers.

    “Will you tell those dumbasses at the Tea Party to stop asking questions about birth certificates while I’m on the camera?” the man identified as Buck said at a June event. “What am I supposed to do?”

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/26/gop-senate-candidate-tape-calling-tea-party-birthers-dirty-word/

  175. avatar
    Majority Will July 26, 2010 at 5:13 pm #

    Rickey: I was hallucinating. Fitzpatrick was 23 when he graduated Annapolis, so nothing out of the ordinary there.

    Thanks for checking. He’s still a lunatic and possibly dangerous.

  176. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 26, 2010 at 7:16 pm #

    SluggoJD: Heads up – “PetJake” is PooPooPolarik’s new sockpuppet!

    The PetJake character here has an IP address nowhere near Polland unless he has moved to another region of the country.

  177. avatar
    SluggoJD July 26, 2010 at 8:58 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    The PetJake character here has an IP address nowhere near Polland unless he has moved to another region of the country.

    Dr. C, it’s him, he must be using a proxy to mask.

    Just look at this URL:

    profiles.yahoo.com/polarik

  178. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 26, 2010 at 9:20 pm #

    SluggoJD: Dr. C, it’s him, he must be using a proxy to mask.

    Well Sluggo, ole pal, I remember you said Polarik was Beckwith too. I’m far from an expert, but Geobytes says the address is not a proxy, and I cannot imagine the real Polland operating a sock puppet that didn’t mention himself.

  179. avatar
    SluggoJD July 26, 2010 at 9:41 pm #

    Dr. C, did you look at the profile? This isn’t rocket science.

    profiles.yahoo.com/polarik

  180. avatar
    SluggoJD July 26, 2010 at 9:50 pm #

    One other thing. Long before anyone knew who Polarik was, people like me were trying to figure him out.

    You’re right – in December 2008, for a brief moment I thought Beckwith could be Polarik. And then, I backed off the claim.

    http://top10badguys.blogspot.com/2008/12/polarik-is-actually-parker-shannon-aka.html

    I’m stunned to be honest. I’ve done some very good work:

    Proved that API’s Michelle hoax came from Beckwith
    Outed Jorge Baro has a fraud

    Now I don’t know what IP you are coming up with right now, but Polarik has changed his Yahoo profile to PetJake, but he’s still in Orlando, and I don’t see how another PetJake could possibly show up and start screaming here.

    It’s him. Look at the profile.

  181. avatar
    Majority Will July 26, 2010 at 10:10 pm #

    SluggoJD: One other thing.Long before anyone knew who Polarik was, people like me were trying to figure him out.You’re right – in December 2008, for a brief moment I thought Beckwith could be Polarik.And then, I backed off the claim.http://top10badguys.blogspot.com/2008/12/polarik-is-actually-parker-shannon-aka.htmlI’m stunned to be honest.I’ve done some very good work:Proved that API’s Michelle hoax came from Beckwith
    Outed Jorge Baro has a fraudNow I don’t know what IP you are coming up with right now, but Polarik has changed his Yahoo profile to PetJake, but he’s still in Orlando, and I don’t see how another PetJake could possibly show up and start screaming here.It’s him.Look at the profile.

    Hopefully, he’ll soon be cast into internet oblivion where he belongs.

  182. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 26, 2010 at 10:30 pm #

    SlugggoJD: It’s him. Look at the profile.

    I looked at the profile when you first posted it. I’m trying to cultivate being skeptical because I know that I’m subject to confirmation bias just like the next guy, so I want a little more evidence, particularly with the PetJake using a consistent IP address for two weeks that’s not in Florida before I start making conclusions.

    However, I do take you seriously. I’ve always used geobytes.com for address lookups, and results seemed good. The PetJake address showed Chicago. However, I went to another IP lookup web page and it put PetJake in Polland/Polarik country. So we have a Polland in our midst. How droll.

    I really don’t pay all that much attention to the birthers that post here. I skim along and catalog the standard categories of misrepresentations and smears. I don’t pay attention to the characters. PetJake was completely rote textbook birther without a single original thought and so totally uninteresting. And of course I find Polland painful to read because every other word is a lie or a smear, or something about how special he is.

    So PetJake is Polland. What he writes is crap under either name.

    PS: I don’t usually talk about where commenter IP address point, but since it’s NOT really in Chicago, there’s no reason not to mention Chicago, and Polland/Polarik/PetJake already disclosed a geographic area in the Yahoo profile.

  183. avatar
    Majority Will July 26, 2010 at 10:41 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I looked at the profile when you first posted it. I’m trying to cultivate being skeptical because I know that I’m subject to confirmation bias just like the next guy, so I want a little more evidence, particularly with the PetJake using a consistent IP address for two weeks that’s not in Florida before I start making conclusions.I Googled “PetJake” and came up with this:
    That sounds like Polland.In any case, the PetJake name hasn’t shown up much besides here.

    Perhaps Polland is cultivating saline immersed pseudo sapiens in his secret lab?

    Makes more sense than . . .

  184. avatar
    SluggoJD July 26, 2010 at 10:49 pm #

    Ok so we’re cool. PooPooPolarik didn’t have the guts to come here as himself, so he became PetJake.

    A loser is a loser is a loser.

  185. avatar
    Black Lion July 27, 2010 at 11:39 am #

    Birther Crazy, WND edition….

    WND’s Dishonest Semantics Attack on Obama
    Topic: WorldNetDaily

    Bob Unruh turns in another lazy one-source WorldNetDaily article, quoting an official from the right-wing Faith and Freedom Institute attacking President Obama for referencing “freedom of worship” instead of “freedom of religion,” uncritically repeating the institute’s claim that the two terms are somehow different.

    If Unruh had bothered to do anything more than stenography with his article, he would have found that Obama is far from the only president to use the term. According to Arkansas Democrat-Gazette religion editor Frank Lockwood, it’s not just Democratic presidents who have used the term but Republican presidents as well, including, yes, Ronald Reagan.

    As State Department spokesman Andy Laine told Christianity Today, “the terms ‘freedom of religion’ and ‘freedom of worship’ have often been used interchangeably through U.S. history, and policymakers in this administration will sometimes do likewise.”

    WND and right-wingers (like Glenn Beck) are trying to create a controversy where none exists by playing a bogus game of semantics. It’s the kind of dishonest journalism Unruh would not be allowed to practice were he still with the Associated Press, but WND loves dishonest journalism, especially when Obama is the subject.

    http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/blog/

  186. avatar
    Majority Will July 27, 2010 at 11:47 am #

    Black Lion: Birther Crazy, WND edition….WND’s Dishonest Semantics Attack on Obama
    Topic: WorldNetDailyBob Unruh turns in another lazy one-source WorldNetDaily article, quoting an official from the right-wing Faith and Freedom Institute attacking President Obama for referencing “freedom of worship” instead of “freedom of religion,” uncritically repeating the institute’s claim that the two terms are somehow different.If Unruh had bothered to do anything more than stenography with his article, he would have found that Obamais far from the only president to use the term. According to Arkansas Democrat-Gazette religion editor Frank Lockwood, it’s not just Democratic presidents who have used the term but Republican presidents as well, including, yes, Ronald Reagan.As State Department spokesman Andy Laine told Christianity Today, “the terms freedom of religion’ and freedom of worship’ have often been used interchangeably through U.S. history, and policymakers in this administration will sometimes do likewise.”
    WND and right-wingers (like Glenn Beck) are trying to create a controversy where none exists by playing a bogus game of semantics. It’s the kind of dishonest journalism Unruh would not be allowed to practice were he still with the Associated Press, but WND loves dishonest journalism, especially when Obama is the subject.
    http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/blog/

    Yeah but, Reagan was a Republican and white.

  187. avatar
    Black Lion July 27, 2010 at 12:06 pm #

    Ed Hale losing it? From OFGS Ed Hale says what is really on his mind….I wonder in between rants if he found “Bigfoot”?

    http://pub44.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=3764075825&frmid=6712&msgid=1132622&cp=1&cmd=show

    Ed Hale

    Jul 26, 2010 – 12:11PM QuoteReply Re: Charles Sherrod…uncle tom video…

    and they claim they were not racist. All these dam blacks want is a hand out. They want something for nothing. Ok you want racist, then I will be racist because I am dam tired of bending over backward for all these jackass and now they can kiss my royalass. I don’t need any more “N I G G E R S” calling me racist. I realize that they are blacks out there who would never do this, but these jackass has to be stoped. So from now on I am going to call them what they are “N I G G E Rs”. That includes the dumbazz white also. Not very funny when someone uses the n i g g e r word is it, it not very funny when someone call me a racist either. Now the shoe is on the other foot. What are you jackass going to do about it?
    State Texas

    Re: Charles Sherrod…uncle tom video…

    good, get yor n i g g e r loving azz out of here.
    State Texas

  188. avatar
    Black Lion July 27, 2010 at 2:05 pm #

    Beck’s incendiary angst is dangerously close to having a body count
    July 27, 2010 7:54 am ET by Eric Boehlert

    On his Monday radio show, Glenn Beck highlighted claims that before he started targeting a little-known, left-leaning organization called the Tides Foundation on his Fox News TV show, “nobody knew” what the non-profit was.

    Indeed, for more than a year Beck has been portraying the progressive organization as a central player in a larger, nefarious cabal of Marxist/socialist/Nazi Obama-loving outlets determined to destroy democracy in America. Beck has routinely smeared the low-profile entity for being staffed by “thugs” and “bullies” and involved in “the nasty of the nastiest,” like indoctrinating schoolchildren and creating a “mass organization to seize power.”

    As Media Matters reported, the conspiratorial host had mentioned (read: attacked) the little-known progressive organization nearly 30 times on his Fox program alone since it premiered in 2009, including several mentions in the last month. (Beck’s the only TV talker who regularly references the foundation, according to our Nexis searches.)

    So yes, Beck has done all he can to scare the hell out of people about the Tides Foundation and “turn the light of day” onto an organization that actually facilitates non-profit giving.

    And guess what? Everybody in America would have found out about the Tides Foundation last week if Byron Williams had had his way. He’s the right-wing, government-hating, gun-toting nut who strapped on his body armor, stocked a pickup truck with guns and ammo, and set off up the California coast to San Francisco in order to start killing employees at the previously obscure Tides Foundation in hopes of sparking a political revolution.

    Thankfully, the planned domestic terrorist attack never came to pass because California Highway Patrol officers pulled Williams over for drunk driving on his way to his killing spree. Williams quickly opened fire, wounding two officers during a lengthy shootout. Luckily, Williams wasn’t able to act out the ultimate goal of his dark anger — fueled by the TV news he watched — about how “Congress was railroading through all these left-wing agenda items,” as his mother put it. Williams wasn’t able to open fire inside the offices of the Tides Foundation, an organization “nobody knew” about until Glenn Beck started targeting it.

    And thankfully, Williams wasn’t able to take his place alongside a growing list of domestic, anti-government terrorists, such as the recent Pentagon shooter, the Holocaust Museum gunman, the kamikaze pilot who flew his plane into an IRS building in Austin, Texas, and the Pittsburgh cop-killer who set up an ambush because he was convinced Obama was going to take away his guns.

    All the vigilante attacks appear to have been fueled by an almost pathological hatred for the U.S. government — the same open hatred that right-wing bloggers, AM talk radio hosts, and Fox News’ lineup of anti-government prophets have been frantically fueling for the last year, pushing doomsday warnings of America’s democratic demise under President Obama.

    And the sad the sad truth is we’re going to see more like Byron Williams. We’re going to see more attempts at vigilante violence during the Age of Obama simply because the right-wing media, lead by Beck, continue to gleefully (albeit irresponsibly) stoke dangerous fires with the kind of relentlessly incendiary rhetoric that has no match in terms of modern day, mainstream use in American politics or media.

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/201007270004

  189. avatar
    misha July 27, 2010 at 2:22 pm #

    Black Lion: don’t forget OK City was when Clinton had a Jewish Defense secretary.

    That’s what pushed McVeigh over the edge, plus he was inspired by Christian Identity. Of course, no one calls him a Christian terrorist.

  190. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2010 at 3:15 pm #

    Misha: That’s what pushed McVeigh over the edge, plus he was inspired by Christian Identity. Of course, no one calls him a Christian terrorist.

    And I wouldn’t call “Christian Identity” Christian either.

  191. avatar
    Black Lion July 27, 2010 at 3:33 pm #

    misha: Black Lion: don’t forget OK City was when Clinton had a Jewish Defense secretary.That’s what pushed McVeigh over the edge, plus he was inspired by Christian Identity. Of course, no one calls him a Christian terrorist.

    I think that Beck and some of his ilk are doing a great disservice to our country. They make up stories and fabrications and spin it in a way for their followers to believe it. If this gunman had been successful, I wonder how much heat Beck would have received. No much because it seems like the media is afraid to call out the hatemongering and dishonest speech of these so called talk hosts. It seemed that McVeigh was more of those milita neo nazi idiots that may have had some slight religious views…..

  192. avatar
    Black Lion July 27, 2010 at 3:45 pm #

    More birther nonsense….Great article on our buddy Walt Fitzpatrick..Check it out…especially the posts by readers….the paypal button is ringing…

    Resistnet and Walter Fitzpatrick – Buddies!
    Author: Tars Tarkas Filed under: #americangrandjury, #resistnet Friday
    Jul 23,2010

    Walter Fitzpatrick a bigwig of the American Grand Jury, which is basically Fitzpatrick and a few other guys who sit around, declare themselves a Grand Jury, and file charges against Barack Obama and basically everyone in Congress and the Supreme Court claiming they are committing fraud and treason as Barack Obama is really one Barry Soetoro, noted guy who isn’t an American.

    To succeed in this plan, Fitzpatrick must get the Monroe County Tennessee officials to agree to charge Obama with treason and fraud, because just declaring yourself a Grand Jury doesn’t mean anyone will listen to you. So you would think Fitzpatrick would have a good working relationship with the local officials. Instead, Fitzpatrick becomes increasingly belligerent against the local officials, who don’t take his hand-written claims seriously, and soon Fitzpatrick declares that the Monroe County are part of the vast conspiracy.

    On March 17, 2009 Fitzpatrick “publicly and formally” charged President Barack Hussein Obama with treason in a federal complaint filed with James R. Dedrick U.S. Attorney, Eastern District Tennessee, and Edgar Schmutzer, Dedrick’s Assistant U.S. Attorney. The only response was the Secret Service showing up at Fitzpatrick’s house two days later.

    Fitzpatrick was allowed to testify for around two hours before officials in August, who declined to take action, prompting Fitzpatrick to claim they forced them out of the courthouse. Things escalated from there as Fitzpatrick became more and more convinced there was a vast conspiracy against him and his battle for the truth of Barry Soetoro exposure.

    While I was typing this up, Monroe Country hit the news again for another tragic reason. Monroe County Election Commission Chairman Jim Miller was found dead inside the trunk of a burning car. Jim Miller was active in the Republican party in the country and has ties to many local officials as well as the business community. The TBI are still investigating the murder.

    A site I had never heard of called RightSideNews was quick to try to blame the Democrats based solely on the fact a commentor quickly blamed the birthers.

    Now, our old friends at Resistnet.com have been big proponents of this American Grand Jury, Birther, and driving your truck full of guns to Monroe County nonsense!

    http://www.politisink.com/2010/07/resistnet-and-walter-fitzpatrick-buddies/

  193. avatar
    Rickey July 27, 2010 at 4:08 pm #

    Now there is a report that Republicans in Iowa are pushing to “restore” the “original” 13th Amendment, which was never ratified.

    http://www.newsweek.com/2010/07/27/why-some-republicans-want-to-restore-the-13th-amendment.html

  194. avatar
    Black Lion July 27, 2010 at 4:25 pm #

    From Bob Cesca’a Awesome Blog! Go!

    ‘Wingnuts’
    Several commenters are having issues with my use of the slang “wingnut.” Boiled down, the argument is that I won’t convince anyone if I’m using a pejorative term to describe them.

    I want to emphasize here that I’m not categorically labeling all conservatives as “wingnuts.” There’s a big difference. Truth be told, I have quite a few conservative friends with whom I can debate on a sane, rational level — conservatives who aren’t afraid to concede a point or to arrive at a reasonable compromise.

    These aren’t wingnuts.

    Wingnuts are the entrenched crazies who routinely vote against their own best interests. People who are oblivious to their own ignorance, contradictions and backwards worldview. They proudly consider themselves “dittoheads” and believe President Obama is a communist Muslim terrorist born in Kenya and that the Constitution is a religious document. They make up their own history and reject empirical reality. They routinely contradict themselves and when you point out their obvious inconsistencies, they insist that your sources are part of the liberal media cabal.

    And they will never be convinced by you or me. The best we can do is to systematically inject reality into their heads — to fight back using facts and strong, persuasive arguments. Whip them into a frenzy and hope that, in some way, the brain worms begin to dissipate.

    But for the most part, we’re talking about people who were brought up to believe certain things regardless of empirical reality. As we all know, wingnut ideology is largely grounded in faith and devotion (not always religious faith, but a faith in ideology regardless of whether it’s backwards). For example, wingnuts often believe that homosexuality is wrong and should remain illegal to some degree. This usually isn’t a conscious, independent decision reached after lengthy analysis of the facts, but a taught, ingrained perception of morality — drilled and nurtured from birth. To defy that way of thinking is to challenge the wingnut’s faith in his or her family, his or her morality/religion and, thus, his or her very being. Nothing you say will change that, whether or not the counter-argument is peppered with the word “wingnut.” And if you, perchance, have managed to change someone’s mind on an issue like this, chances are that person wasn’t a wingnut.

    Anyway, I hope this clarifies some things.

    http://www.bobcesca.com/blog-archives/2010/07/wingnuts.html

  195. avatar
    G July 28, 2010 at 1:09 am #

    Excellent post by Bob Cesca, BL! Thanks for sharing!

    I agree completely with how he characterized the wingnuts.

  196. avatar
    G July 28, 2010 at 1:57 am #

    G: That is correct. One of my college honors classes was a scholarly study of the Book of Revelations and looking at the world in place around the time of its presumed writing. The most likely conclusion is that it was basically a coded criticism of both Nero and the leadership/direction being taken at some of the “rival churches” at that early stage in Christianity.

    Keith: Yes, but it sounds like your scholarly study’ approached it from just that one point of view. The Wikipedia article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation#Interpretations lists 10 major categories of interpretation views, some of which have several subset interpretation.

    For example, the Futurist view assigns the events to be taking place in the future and there are at least three subsets including the Pre-Tribulationist, the Mid-Tribulationist, and the Post-Tribulationist. The Preterist view holds that the prophesied events all took place in the 1st century. Then there is the Esoteric View, the Paschal Liturgical view, the Paschal Spiritual view, etc, etc

    You relate the “accepted” Academic view, but there are a lot of people who are not academics who have a belief structure about Revelations, and there is no reason to assume that anyone of them is the one true version.

    Contrary to Doc’s assertion that only captured evangelicals’ try to read Revelations as a guide to the time line of the End of the World (in what I regard as a direct rejection of what they would otherwise consider to be the Authority, that is the teachings of Christ), the Jehovah’s Witnesses is a sect founded specifically on the prophecy of the precise date of TEOTWAWKI (of which there have been a series as each one has failed in turn).

    Anyway, I’m gonna get a hold of Metzger’s book and see what he has to say, because I’m fascinated by Mythology and its on my ‘hit list’ of stuff to study.

    Keith,

    You made some good points. I realize that my post left a lot of POV on the topic out of it, partially due to the fact that I was specifically confirming the historical perspective which Dr. C had relayed and mentioning that matched the findings we studied within that specific context. Also, as this is the analysis of that book that I personally subscribe to, my own bias came across.

    I should add some major clarification that the “accepted historical perspective” was not being “pushed” on us in this class, nor was that the Prof’s focus or the only aspect we looked at. Actually, this Prof, for whom this was his favorite book of the Bible, never revealed to us which of the many views/interpretations/perspectives was the one he ascribed to on it and emphasized to us that the reason he so loved and was fascinated by the book was because it is the most open to interpretation and because he felt that it always had and always would continue to have a significant influence on our society. It was an unusual class as there was no “right answer” on how to view or interpret it – the whole point being to openly look at it from as many ways as possible.

    The Book of Revelation was the core component to that class and studying it from various perspectives and interpretations was the overall focus. So, the “historical context of the time period” was only one small aspect of how even looked at it within a historical context. More time, even from a historical aspect, was spent on looking to history & literature on a much broader timescale. We even looked at influences that preceded it / supported it in other biblical & religious texts as well as looking into any analogous similarities with earlier religions. We looked at its influence & possible interpretations around the time period it was written (which is what I focused on earlier) and even more than that, we looked at its influence on society, culture, literature, art, prophecy throughout history up to modern times. This included a lot of study of various other “prophets” and prophecies and cult movements, which I found very fascinating and have kept up on to some extent as a curiosity hobby ever since. (Doesn’t mean I believe in End of Times stuff myself, but I find it fascinating to study those & the movements that do and their interpretations).

    We also looked at it the book from a lot of non-historical aspects too – discussing various interpretations and how various sects of Christianity viewed the book, including which groups included the book at all and also where there were different textual changes between various denominations and even within various versions of the Bible. Quite a bit of time was spent on what it meant for the future and students sharing their views & interpretations as well.

    I very much enjoyed the Wikipedia link you provided and read through all of it. What I found most interesting is although my class had covered many of the interpretation viewpoints listed there, that the terms they used and we used to categorize them were sometimes different and that the breakdown was somewhat different too. There were also a few interpretations listed that we hadn’t covered at all from my recollection (for example, Paschal spiritual view) and it seemed that there were others we did cover that wikipedia didn’t (or at least from how its organized differently, it seemed that there was stuff missing…but then again, its been nearly 20 years since I took that class, so my memory is getting a bit foggy on it).

    Anyways, fascinating stuff, and if I came across indicating that there was any one and only right way to view or interpret that book, I sincerely apologize. I only meant to affirm that the historical viewpoint connections that Dr. C pointed out were correct and have had a lot of scholarly support for years.

  197. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 28, 2010 at 7:54 am #

    G: The Book of Revelation was the core component to that class and studying it from various perspectives and interpretations was the overall focus. So, the “historical context of the time period” was only one small aspect of how even looked at it within a historical context.

    We got off topic here, but I wanted to add that the most useful approach to Revelation for me is form criticism. The literary form of the book is apocalyptic and it was a popular genre of the time. Look at the second half of the Book of Daniel in the Bible or the Book of Enoch for parallels. One may use any number of interpretive approaches to Revelation, but I would contend that scripting the end of the world was not the author’s intent.

  198. avatar
    Black Lion July 28, 2010 at 3:50 pm #

    Speaking of birther crazy, the so called RAP idiots….

    Tuesday, July 27, 2010
    HOT HOT HOT NEWS —- BAD GUYS HAULED TO HAGUE
    Just relayed to me from a skype contact. The Bad Guys and Families (Wash DC, TX, Maine, NY) have been hauled to Hague World Court for arraignment and multiple charges of treason. And this includes O!

    Announcement from Hague Shortly!
    Posted by John MacHaffie at 12:38 PM

    http://nesaranews.blogspot.com/2010/07/hot-hot-hot-news-bad-guys-hauled-to.html

    Funny…So somehow the “enemies of the state” have been arrested….Which is weird because I thought Obama was in NJ an then going to NY….But I might be wrong….Either way someone may not be drinking the Kool-aid…

    July 27, 2010 1:55 PM
    Anonymous said…
    yep, this sure looks like the normal pattern through the years. Someone gets a ‘news item’ from a ‘top top source’ and we start banging the tambourines and go all ‘hallelujah!’ and such…

    …and the ‘source’ turns out to be someone’s lonely Uncle Harry who loves to make up stuff to get folks riled up. Caution! My guess is that these fantastic unreal stories are just…unreal stories, concocted by a person looking for a response…hope I’m wrong, but those of us who have lived this for untold years rarely are wrong on these affairs…We’ll see, hate to be a buzz-kill, but I hate more to think of the folks who desperately need the funds being whipped around by these ridiculous tales…

  199. avatar
    Majority Will July 28, 2010 at 3:55 pm #

    Black Lion: Speaking of birther crazy, the so called RAP idiots….Tuesday, July 27, 2010
    HOT HOT HOT NEWS —- BAD GUYS HAULED TO HAGUE
    Just relayed to me from a skype contact. The Bad Guys and Families (Wash DC, TX, Maine, NY) have been hauled to Hague World Court for arraignment and multiple charges of treason. And this includes O!Announcement from Hague Shortly!
    Posted by John MacHaffie at 12:38 PMhttp://nesaranews.blogspot.com/2010/07/hot-hot-hot-news-bad-guys-hauled-to.htmlFunny…So somehow the “enemies of the state” have been arrested….Which is weird because I thought Obama was in NJ an then going to NY….But I might be wrong….Either way someone may not be drinking the Kool-aid…July 27, 2010 1:55 PMAnonymous said…
    yep, this sure looks like the normal pattern through the years. Someone gets a news item’ from a top top source’ and we start banging the tambourines and go all ‘hallelujah!’ and such……and the source’ turns out to be someone’s lonely Uncle Harry who loves to make up stuff to get folks riled up. Caution! My guess is that these fantastic unreal stories are just…unreal stories, concocted by a person looking for a response…hope I’m wrong, but those of us who have lived this for untold years rarely are wrong on these affairs…We’ll see, hate to be a buzz-kill, but I hate more to think of the folks who desperately need the funds being whipped around by these ridiculous tales…

    ALCOA should start a side business selling hats to these folks.

  200. avatar
    Black Lion July 28, 2010 at 3:59 pm #

    Majority Will: ALCOA should start a side business selling hats to these folks.

    Some of the other comments are even more hilarious….hats may not be enough for these wingnuts…

    John MacHaffie said…
    Latest Intel

    Obama was allowed to come back to the states for media events but has now flown back to Hague. Casper was possibly right on this one, finally!

    My intel sources are others outside the bush/cheney operation.

    July 28, 2010 3:34 AM
    Anonymous said…
    Latest from Casper
    “WE think everyone is getting “conned” right now including us. We may not be able to report all of it accurately right now but this time it will be due to our incomplete facts rather than withholding anything intentionally.

    WE are being forced to conclude that news coming from the ‘Tribunal’ lately has not been truthful. The media present have been ordered to keep quiet causing some of them to pack up and leave.

    When Obama appeared back at the White House on CNN Monday morning WE were advised that he had ‘escaped’ with the help of a ‘double’. Then Intel from D.C. and Europe said he had been ‘collected’ by the Provost and returned to Europe not via Air Force One. The story continued this morning saying the Provost had delivered another ‘double’ but once the Tribunal realized what had happened they were ‘hot on the trail’ of the real Obama and when found he would be delivered directly to the Hague based on Verdicts handed down during the day finding him guilty of Embezzlement, Treason, etc.. Others names were included, many others, some already found guilty, some to receive Verdicts later in the day. This ‘ruse’, if that be what it is, continued all day with a ‘cops and robbers’ elaborate storyline we will skip for now as it is not important because it appears it was false.”
    Sorry (no really!)

    July 28, 2010 5:47 AM
    Anonymous said…
    I thought Casper wasn’t going to be posted anymore.

    His stories could only be believed by a moron.

    Believers had better get a lot smarter or you are going to lose your money the first week.

    CASPER BELIEVERS … HE IS LAUGHING AT YOU

  201. avatar
    Black Lion July 28, 2010 at 4:01 pm #

    July 28, 2010 7:10 AM
    Anonymous said…
    CASPER UPDATE #2: JULY 27, 2010 , posted late…(( missing part))
    WE think everyone is getting “conned” right now including us. ….(…) because it appears it was false.
    WE have tried to be especially careful with all this the last few days due the enormous significance of it. WE were ‘tip toeing thru the tulips’ but not without having sources watching things from here and from there. Today it became apparent that facts ‘on the ground’ were not properly matching up with the stories being told, something was ‘just not right’, WE have been sensing a snake in the wood pile since mid day. As best WE can analyze things right now it appears the Provost is following the orders of Obama rather than the Tribunal. WE are quite sure about the enormous amounts of documentation and evidence in the hands of the Tribunal and the charges against all the bad guys, Obama, Clinton, Bush, Geithner and many many many more. WE believe the orders to retrieve and deliver Obama are real along with orders to deliver many others only a few of which we have mentioned such as the heads of Brinks and Carlyle. WE believe the Tribunal can not obtain ‘enforcement’ of its orders. The packs remaining in D.C. even now is proof of this. The failure of the Provost to perform as ordered is further proof. Obama’s defiance and arrogance further proof. The U.S. is represented on the Tribunal. This was set up to by pass the corrupt World Court and the United Nations. This is serious business. It just does not get any bigger or more profound than this. WE believe that once Obama managed to “escape” and return to his “cave”, that being the confines of the Corporation, and the ‘Legal Shield’ surrounding him he again assumed the stance that ‘he is God and no one can touch him’ no matter what he does. He has the entire Political Establishment behind him wanting to preserve themselves in power. He is controlling the Military through those willing to protect the Corporation and the Illuminati plans for the final demise of our Republic. He is backed up by the Money Power willing to do anything at all not to lose Control. If WE are seeing things correctly, and we will certainly know more soon, the only alternative is that which the world has tried so hard to avoid that being the collapsing of the existing structure financially which is a complex subject for another day. Suffice it to say that the Stock Market would collapse taking Trillions with it. WE will know more when the sun comes up but felt WE should get this ‘heads up’ of a lousy nature out to the world tonight. casper 7-27-10 #2
    http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/nesara/news/news.php?q=1280291980

    July 28, 2010 11:00 AM
    NESARA RAP INVESTIGATORS OF TRUTH said…
    Prediction:

    1)Poof will be back asking for donations next sunday.

    2)There will be no deliveries

    3)Casper will write that the packs are out for delivery, then will write they are back in DC.

    We will be here next year, with the above 3 things happening over and over.

    Look around. IRS, FED getting more power. Obama not at the Hague at all, and not looking too worried about being removed. US going to attack IRAN next. No sign of packs. Banks still failing. No sign of gold backed money, despite the posts about BofA issuing some (that was a lie).

    People, OPEN YOUR EYES. USE YOUR COMMON SENSE.

    Poof is delusional. He writes to feel important since his real life is one of a loner and a loser in life. Casper is the same. He writes to make himself feel important, because in the scheme of things he is a nobody.

    RAP is not working with the military. ANY officer knows that to do so would make them liable to treason charges, which carry the death penalty. Tim Turner is a con man and is NOT the president of anything.

    PEOPLE, PLEASE!!! Realize for once in your lives that when you are constantly told that you will be getting a huge payment, and the person telling you this week after week also asks for donations, that this person is telegraphing his lie to you. He would NOT NEED donations if he TRULY thought he was going to get his packies.

    The best thing we can do is IGNORE these SICK and DELLUSIONAL people and not give them the attention that they crave. Once we ignore them, they will stop writing.

    I recommend that ALL DONATIONS TO POOF AND OTHER SUCH SITES STOP IMMEDIATELY. If he wants money, he can get a job or get his packie.

    THERE ARE NO PROSPERITY PROGRAMS. NONE.
    THERE IS NO MILITARY RAP CONNECTION. NONE.
    THERE ARE NO MOTHER SHIPS IN OUT SPACE. NONE.
    THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE GOLD BACKED SYSTEM WAITING IN THE WINGS. NONE.
    THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT IS NOT A CORPORATION. THAT IS A LIE OF LONG STANDING DURATION PROPPED UP BY MALCONTENTS.

    Give yourself a break and stop supporting these blogs. All of them are run by men and women with too much time on their hands. They DO NOT have connections or intel sources. That is HOGWASH.

    CHALLENGE: TO ANY AND ALL BLOG OWNERS, and CASPER AND POOF AND OTHER LIARS:

    SHOW US ONE PIECE OF PROOF TO ANY OF YOUR STORIES.

    SHOW US A COPY OF THE SO-CALLED BANK OF AMERICA GOLD BACKED DOLLAR.

    SHOW US A LETTER OR A TESTAMONIAL FROM THE 100 OR SO PEOPLE YOU CLAIM HAVE A PACKIE.

    SHOW US A COPY OF A PROOF OF MAILING FROM A FARM CLAIM DELIVERY.

    WE DARE YOU. WE DOUBLE DARE YOU. WE TRIPPLE DARE YOU.

    THIS POST WILL BE POSTED ALL ALL BLOGS. YOU CAN DELTE THIS POST, BUT IT WILL NOT DO YOU ANY GOOD.

    THE TRUTH WILL EXPOSE YOUR LIES.

    Sincerely,
    NESARA-RAP INVESTIGATORS OF TRUTH

  202. avatar
    Majority Will July 28, 2010 at 4:04 pm #

    Black Lion:
    Some of the other comments are even more hilarious….hats may not be enough for these wingnuts…John MacHaffie said…
    Latest Intel
    Obama was allowed to come back to the states for media events but has now flown back to Hague. Casper was possibly right on this one, finally!My intel sources are others outside the bush/cheney operation.
    July 28, 2010 3:34 AMAnonymous said…
    Latest from Casper
    “WE think everyone is getting “conned” right now including us. We may not be able to report all of it accurately right now but this time it will be due to our incomplete facts rather than withholding anything intentionally.WE are being forced to conclude that news coming from the Tribunal’ lately has not been truthful. The media present have been ordered to keep quiet causing some of them to pack up and leave.When Obama appeared back at the White House on CNN Monday morning WE were advised that he had escaped’ with the help of a double’. Then Intel from D.C. and Europe said he had been collected’ by the Provost and returned to Europe not via Air Force One. The story continued this morning saying the Provost had delivered another double’ but once the Tribunal realized what had happened they were ‘hot on the trail’ of the real Obama and when found he would be delivered directly to the Hague based on Verdicts handed down during the day finding him guilty of Embezzlement, Treason, etc.. Others names were included, many others, some already found guilty, some to receive Verdicts later in the day. This ruse’, if that be what it is, continued all day with a cops and robbers’ elaborate storyline we will skip for now as it is not important because it appears it was false.”
    Sorry (no really!)
    July 28, 2010 5:47 AMAnonymous said…
    I thought Casper wasn’t going to be posted anymore.His stories could only be believed by a moron.Believers had better get a lot smarter or you are going to lose your money the first week.CASPER BELIEVERS … HE IS LAUGHING AT YOU

    More proof that homemade liquor is a bad idea.

  203. avatar
    Black Lion July 28, 2010 at 4:13 pm #

    I know…I guess this is the original post that was part of this most recent nonsense regarding the wingnuts from RAP….

    RAP Interim Government
    Posted on July 23, 2010 by gregnh
    RAP Interim Government needs patriots to inhabit offices to bring back the republics in all 50 states and at the national level. The journey to get here has been a long one. Some of the founders of RAP, or the people responsible for the research that got us here, have been doing this for 10-20 years. The sacrifices that these patriots have made are great, both financially and personally. We now need to see that this gift from God is realized to it’s full potential.

    We are being asked to seat 10 Statesmen and 2 Senators and 1 Governor for each state. These people can come from the jury pool, and if there are any I am sure they will make themselves known. But they can come from the general population. We need to seek out people that you think are capable and can actually serve the republic until such time as general elections can be realized.

    I wish I could serve in a greater capacity then I am now, but I simply can’t afford it personally. I know this sounds like “how can we find people to just serve?” Well with hope the press release will make some news somewhere. Something we can point to as an independent report. That will make it easier to approached people. For instance I saw a retired military guy at the coffee shop sitting with friends. I will have no problem approaching someone like that. I plan on printing up little pamphlets to hand out. There are all kinds of things we can do. Writing letters to the editors can help as well. Eventually the word will get out and more people will climb on board.

    Go forth and multiply…

    http://gwgjlg.wordpress.com/2010/07/23/rap-interim-government/comment-page-2/#comment-13908

    “Joe says:
    July 27, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    …Let the removals begin I say! Let the announcements begin and lets install governors who will follow the changeover. These installed leaders are TEMPORARY but NECCESSARY. The interim POTUSFA Mr. James Timothy Turner you may now make tough decisions so make them NOW and lets go PUBLIC! The gulf of mexico requires attention and benevolent attention. Corexit is malevolent attention and not 1 drop of it should have made it to the gulf. The UK banned that nasty poison. Now President of the united states for america get on with it and serve the people up some benevolent govt for a change!

    Floridafree says:
    July 28, 2010 at 2:35 pm
    The FEMA camps are being prepared for the massive Gulf evacuation that will be necessary I do not buy for one moment that this oil gusher is capped. I believe that Matt Simmons has it right the actual leak is 7-10 miles away from the DWH site. Why can’t we see the oil? That is easy to answer there has been so much COREXIT dumped it has caused this oil to be driven deep beneath the sea also more than likely they are NOT showing ANY vids/pics of the actual area where the gusher is spewing this toxic soup!

    Bonnie in Michigan says:
    July 28, 2010 at 1:47 pm
    Just to let you know we have had an oil spill of 800,000 gallons of oil into the Kalamazoo river here in Michigan late night on the 26th. And just near where the new capital is for the Republic too. Here’s part of the news clip.

    Governor Jennifer M. Granholm today activated the State Emergency Operations Center to ensure all state resources are readily available to protect public health and the environment in response to the oil spill that occurred July 26 near Marshall.

    Bonnie in Michigan says:
    July 28, 2010 at 2:38 pm
    The thing is the spill is near Kalamazoo where it has been said the Republic will be seated and this spill happens Monday. The company is Canadian owned and based in Houston TX. The timing is just a little to fishy, since it had been leaking on Sunday and wasn’t “discovered” by the company until Monday. And here we are to have announcements anytime now.

    Rob S. says:
    July 28, 2010 at 3:13 pm
    The temporary holding camps were designed to expedite the roundup of illegal aliens, subversive elements and corrupt officials in a national emergency. Each camp has a courtroom, hospital facilities, rations and other supplies for ninety days.

    Funding for the camps was in the Defense appropriations bills over several years. Not sure what congress knows about the plan, but I suspect the right hand didn’t let the left know what it was doing.

    The FEMA camp myth was allowed to ferment, so the real design was overlooked. The Army will oversee, man and control the camps during the national emergency.

  204. avatar
    Black Lion July 28, 2010 at 4:16 pm #

    Majority Will: More proof that homemade liquor is a bad idea.

    This reminds me to make sure that we keep sharp objects away from these folks…

    So Where Did Restore America Plan (RAP) Originate
    Introduction – By now we know about Restore America Plan or RAP. We are also hearing about the Republic of the United States for the first time since we have been on the planet. But where did RAP come from is a good question.

    http://www.panamalaw.org/where_did_restore_america_plan_originate.html

  205. avatar
    Black Lion July 28, 2010 at 4:18 pm #

    My original comment may have been erased…But reading this drivel you can see these people are in serious need of medical attention….

    http://www.panamalaw.org/where_did_restore_america_plan_originate.html

    So Where Did Restore America Plan (RAP) Originate
    Introduction – By now we know about Restore America Plan or RAP. We are also hearing about the Republic of the United States for the first time since we have been on the planet. But where did RAP come from is a good question.

    Attack on Tim Turner – Well President Tim Turner did not start RAP. He was approached by the military as was Sam Kennedy. Let’s stop here and now discount all the jealous leaders of other movements who will stoop low enough to do anything to slander Tim Turner. They are just jealous to the point of hurting RAP for a chance at maybe getting their movement going for their glory. These people have done nothing in terms of getting a movement going, have no foreign support, no funding, no military support, and yet want to knock Tim Turner and RAP down. Bad motives. Many of them are involved with raising money or selling things which is raising money. So by their logic drop RAP and Tim Turner because of what they say and go back to Obama while we wait for them to maybe do something. Great idea more Obama. If we ever did that and their movement took hold then the other pseudo leaders would jump in and then attack them for the similar reasons. Either you want to see the people get free or you are self-serving. Give RAP a chance.

  206. avatar
    Black Lion July 28, 2010 at 4:25 pm #

    Birther’s jumping ship…I wonder when he will be vilified as a being “bought by Obama” by the birthers….

    On the “birther” front, Buck tells National Review Online that he regrets using the word “dumbasses,” but not the thought. “[Birthers] have come to my rallies about seven or eight times,” he sighs. “They have stood up and dominated the meetings. Instead of having a polite exchange, they come and are just all over that issue, making it hard for us to talk about the national debt and health care. . . . They are rude.” But if “birthers” are not “dumbasses,” then what are they? “They are wrong,” Buck says. “I don’t agree with them.”

    http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MDAwMTViMTVkMTE0OWM3YzVmNjFkMzg3MmQ2ZGUwZGM=

  207. avatar
    Black Lion July 28, 2010 at 4:27 pm #

    Good for the judge….I wonder if Brewer will still be the “birther hero”….

    PHOENIX — A federal judge on Wednesday blocked the most controversial parts of Arizona’s immigration law from taking effect, delivering a last-minute victory to opponents of the crackdown.

    The overall law will still take effect Thursday, but without the provisions that angered opponents — including sections that required officers to check a person’s immigration status while enforcing other laws.

    The judge also put on hold parts of the law that required immigrants to carry their papers at all times, and made it illegal for undocumented workers to solicit employment in public places.

    U.S. District Judge Susan Bolton ruled that the controversial sections should be put on hold until the courts resolve the issues.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38436995/ns/us_news-immigration_a_nation_divided/

  208. avatar
    AnotherBird July 28, 2010 at 10:05 pm #

    Black Lion: Birther’s jumping ship…I wonder when he will be vilified as a being “bought by Obama” by the birthers….On the “birther” front, Buck tells National Review Online that he regrets using the word “dumbasses,” but not the thought. “[Birthers] have come to my rallies about seven or eight times,” he sighs. “They have stood up and dominated the meetings. Instead of having a polite exchange, they come and are just all over that issue, making it hard for us to talk about the national debt and health care. . . . They are rude.” But if “birthers” are not “dumbasses,” then what are they? “They are wrong,” Buck says. “I don’t agree with them.”http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MDAwMTViMTVkMTE0OWM3YzVmNjFkMzg3MmQ2ZGUwZGM=

    The mistake was in calling birther dumbass, as he stated “Instead of having a polite exchange.” Not that it is incorrect to call them dumbasses, but to call them in the context of having a “polite exchange.” However, from what I understand, it was the equation to Tea Party as being full with birthers. What is your opinion?

  209. avatar
    G July 29, 2010 at 2:05 am #

    AnotherBird: The mistake was in calling birther dumbass, as he stated “Instead of having a polite exchange.” Not that it is incorrect to call them dumbasses, but to call them in the context of having a “polite exchange.” However, from what I understand, it was the equation to Tea Party as being full with birthers. What is your opinion?

    I’ll weigh in on this. I’ll give kudos to Buck for sticking to his views. All he apologized for is his choice of words, “dumbasses” and updated that to a more polite but clear statement that he still views the Birthers as wrong. So, he’s been consistent in his message and I’ve seen nothing that indicates that he ever pandered to the Birthers.

    His apology is to the overall TeaParty movement, which obviously has a lot of Birthers within it, as evidenced by how his Town Halls have played out.

    But although the TeaParty are definitely RW extreme – the Birthers are the fringe of the fringe. What portion of a subset of TeaParty folks they represent is unclear – a significant presence it appears, but doubtfully the majority. There are Truther TeaParty folks out there too. Some TeaParty groups have gone as far as to make statements that they don’t want either Birthers nor Truthers in their “movement”, but it is quite clear that the TeaParty as a whole is infested with enough of both of them for it to be a noticeable problem.

    In a GOP Primary, the TeaParty is currently viewed as a large enough constituency that GOP candidates view it as political suicide to openly diss them. So, from a political standpoint, I can’t really blame Buck for trying to mea culpa to the TeaParty groups as a whole – he certainly is concerned that he can’t win a GOP primary without them.

    And think about it – really, the GOP base has been shrinking, leaving only an ever extreme red-meat core. Most of the TeaParty folks really were always part of that base in the past – they are just trying to call themselves something different, because they don’t want to be associated with all the GOP failures of the Bush years. But make no mistake, those TeaPartiers that have been consistent voters likely consistently voted GOP in the past.

    The only real difference with the TeaParty and the GOP is that the TeaParty has added a fair number of “Conservative Libertarians”, “Constitutionalists” and what passes as PUMAs to their movement. But I highly suspect that their total numbers are less than they appear to be and that their impact will be much less significant in November than some pundits are fearing.

  210. avatar
    Black Lion July 29, 2010 at 9:07 am #

    AnotherBird: The mistake was in calling birther dumbass, as he stated “Instead of having a polite exchange.” Not that it is incorrect to call them dumbasses, but to call them in the context of having a “polite exchange.” However, from what I understand, it was the equation to Tea Party as being full with birthers. What is your opinion?

    I am reading it as Buck is trying to appeal to the Tea partiers and ignore the birthers at the same time. However they seem to be on in the same at his rallies….He is afraid of the negative publicity of being affiliated with the birthers while still wanting the tea party support….He like a lot of other right wing GOP politicans are attempting to sit on the fence…

  211. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 29, 2010 at 10:31 am #

    Black Lion: [Buck] is afraid of the negative publicity of being affiliated with the birthers while still wanting the tea party support….He like a lot of other right wing GOP politicians are attempting to sit on the fence…

    Is it just me, or does anyone else see a very real possibility that the Republican’s big chance to take over the House in the off-year election will implode because of the extremist power grab within the Party?

  212. avatar
    Black Lion July 29, 2010 at 11:11 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Is it just me, or does anyone else see a very real possibility that the Republican’s big chance to take over the House in the off-year election will implode because of the extremist power grab within the Party?

    Doc, I was saying the same thing to a friend of mine. The longer some of these GOP politicans don’t repudiate the birthers and their ridiculous theory, or embrace them, the more wacky and crazy some of them look. For instance in NV, where Harry Reid was a dead man, Sharron Angle craziness has allowed him to pass her in the polls….No matter how much the voters may hate the incumbants they are not going to vote in any of these extreme wingnut politicans…

  213. avatar
    Black Lion July 29, 2010 at 11:12 am #

    Speaking of birther crazy, we have more from the RAP wingnuts…

    http://nesaranews.blogspot.com/2010/07/summary-of-what-is-really-going-on-now.html

    Hague Court arraignment of the Bad Guys

    I rec’d 3 separate Skype messages about this (This is a Real Time News Blog) and decided to post my short alert on the blog. It was getting close to going viral on the net. I don’t make BS up, just relaying the intel. And I then waited to see what comes in!

    I rec’d more information which explains what is happening. The entire crew of Bad Guys is being brought up on charges per the illegal war activities against other nations, illegal drug running, violations against humanity, illegal financial transactions and illegal blockage of settlements. Chris Story (A credible source) has exposed most of this and now disappeared. I would like to think he is being hid and protected but I also am concerned about his life – we don’t know yet.

    Obama is being seen here on TV. No way some say and I asked the same question to my sources. I have also been informed of two scenarios. 1) – Obama was allowed to do his media events as president of the corp. government and then flown back under interpol escort to Hague. 2) – All the bad guys have doubles to fill in. Chris Story reported on clones (which I have a problem with) but then remember the “Avatar” movie. Were did they get that idea from?

    July 28, 2010 8:22 AM

    Anonymous said…
    In the 1976 movie Futureworld visually identical robots take the places of politicians and journalists.
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074559/

    I was reminded of that movie when I read about human clones first time this year.

    Alcuin talks about the “The Bilocation of Hillary Clone-Clinton”
    http://alcuinbramerton.blogspot.com/2008/01/bilocation-of-hillary-clone-clinton.html

    All in all scary stuff. I’m somewhat convinced. I’ve seen face expressions that common folks don’t show with these alleged clones.

    Be well.
    Tutor
    July 28, 2010 8:27 AM

    Anonymous said…
    The process in human replication does not take an incubation pe-riod of nine months. It is accelerated by means of chemical additives and ideal circumstances of laboratory makings. The initial process can take between six and seven of your weeks for certainty of perfect fetal development, and another eight to ten weeks is required for the full growth. Since none of this is by natural birth processes, regular gesta-tional time has no meaning. … When the clone of a specific adult is at stake, the period of aging from emergence of the infant into an adult in prime years, say between 30 and 35 years of age, is only between 350 and 400 days. http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/science_technology/cloning/news.php?q=26f8f104e64ca2b16f3c4c23fd388d08

    Human clones are not ensouled and do not, therefore, have access to the higher dimensions through reflection, intuition and spiritual practice. No soul means no God-connection. And no God-connection means that clones have an inherent vulnerability to religious manipulation and deceit.
    The higher dimensional data-links which ensouled humans have, help them to appear quick, flexible and alert in conversation, particularly when stressed. The absence of this potential for minute-to-minute inspiration or revelation in clones gives rise to a simplistic body language and inappropriate physiognomic responses in complexly nuanced situations (picture example here).
    http://alcuinbramerton.blogspot.com/2008/01/bilocation-of-hillary-clone-clinton.html
    July 28, 2010 9:25 AM

    Anonymous said…
    I COMPLETELY AGREE with this comment-

    “Concerning the last T.V. “appearance” of Big O, view older pictures of him – he has BLACK LIPS. The last one to be on T.V. had dark pink lips. I’ve been observing this for some time. When he appeared on T.V. my wife screamed, “LOOK, LOOK, LOOK” at his lips!!!!

    I said the same thing when I saw him…”that’s one of his fill ins”!!!

  214. avatar
    Black Lion July 29, 2010 at 11:29 am #

    You have to wonder if WND gets tired of looking inept and pathetic….

    http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/blog/

    WND Repeats (Most of) Klein’s Birther Argument
    Topic: WorldNetDaily

    A July 27 WorldNetDaily article rehashes birther-related claims made in Aaron Klein’s Obama hate book, “The Manchurian President.” There are a couple things missing.

    WND repeats Klein’s contention that “Obama may not fit the constitutional eligibility requirement that stipulates only ‘natural born’ citizens can serve as U.S. president.” But as we’ve detailed, Klein is merely repeating arguments made by birther lawyers promoted by WND, and he makes no mention whatsoever in his book of legal arguments that contradict his claim that Obama is not a “natural born citizen.”

    WND makes an omission of its own: As we’ve also detailed, Klein wrote in his book that he found “no convincing evidence that Obama was born in Kenya, nor that his birthplace was any place other than Hawaii, his declared state of birth.” That statement is nowhere to be found in the WND article — perhaps because it contradicts WND’s own reporting.

    WND Elevates Anonymous Comment to Headline
    Topic: WorldNetDaily

    Here’s the latest banal, biased White House press briefing question from Les Kinsolving, per a July 26 WorldNetDaily article:

    Kinsolving asked, “What assurance has the president received from his secretary of state that in 2012 she will not run for president?”

    “I am unaware of any assurance that this president needs about his secretary of state,” responded Gibbs, declining even to mention Clinton’s name.

    Of course, Kinsolving didn’t use Clinton’s name either, so pointing out that Gibbs didn’t use it is utterly irrelevant.

    But here’s the headline on this article: “Democrat says he’d pick Hillary, Satan before Obama.” Surely it must have been an at least somewhat prominent Democrat making this statement, given that WND elevated it to headline status. Um, no:

    Wrote one forum participant at the U.S. News & World Report magazine website, “If Hillary Clinton is not the Democratic nominee in 2012 I am voting for the Republican. I don’t care if the Republican is Satan. Obama stole the nomination from Hillary Clinton in 2008. I once was a Democrat. I will never vote for another Democrat if they don’t get it together.”

    That’s right — WND turned an anoymous comment in a comment thread into a headline. WND puts a lot of stock in anonymous sources, despite — or perhaps because of — editor Joseph Farah’s statement that they are “usually quotes made up out of whole cloth to help make the story read better.”

    Is that anybody’s idea of responsible journalism?

  215. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 29, 2010 at 11:43 am #

    Black Lion: You have to wonder if WND gets tired of looking inept and pathetic….http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/blog/WND Repeats (Most of) Klein’s Birther ArgumentTopic: WorldNetDailyA July 27 WorldNetDaily article rehashes birther-related claims made in Aaron Klein’s Obama hate book, “The Manchurian President.” There are a couple things missing.WND repeats Klein’s contention that “Obama may not fit the constitutional eligibility requirement that stipulates only natural born’ citizens can serve as U.S. president.” But as we’ve detailed, Klein is merely repeating arguments made by birther lawyers promoted by WND, and he makes no mention whatsoever in his book of legal arguments that contradict his claim that Obama is not a “natural born citizen.”WND makes an omission of its own: As we’ve also detailed, Klein wrote in his book that he found “no convincing evidence that Obama was born in Kenya, nor that his birthplace was any place other than Hawaii, his declared state of birth.” That statement is nowhere to be found in the WND article — perhaps because it contradicts WND’s own reporting. WND Elevates Anonymous Comment to HeadlineTopic: WorldNetDailyHere’s the latest banal, biased White House press briefing question from Les Kinsolving, per a July 26 WorldNetDaily article:Kinsolving asked, “What assurance has the president received from his secretary of state that in 2012 she will not run for president?”“I am unaware of any assurance that this president needs about his secretary of state,” responded Gibbs, declining even to mention Clinton’s name. Of course, Kinsolving didn’t use Clinton’s name either, so pointing out that Gibbs didn’t use it is utterly irrelevant. But here’s the headline on this article: “Democrat says he’d pick Hillary, Satan before Obama.” Surely it must have been an at least somewhat prominent Democrat making this statement, given that WND elevated it to headline status. Um, no:Wrote one forum participant at the U.S. News & World Report magazine website, “If Hillary Clinton is not the Democratic nominee in 2012 I am voting for the Republican. I don’t care if the Republican is Satan. Obama stole the nomination from Hillary Clinton in 2008. I once was a Democrat. I will never vote for another Democrat if they don’t get it together.”That’s right — WND turned an anoymous comment in a comment thread into a headline. WND puts a lot of stock in anonymous sources, despite — or perhaps because of — editor Joseph Farah’s statement that they are “usually quotes made up out of whole cloth to help make the story read better.” Is that anybody’s idea of responsible journalism?

    Black Lion it must be a slow news day for WND. By news day I mean stuff they make up. Apparently they ran out of their daily supply of acid that they give their writers.

  216. avatar
    Black Lion July 29, 2010 at 12:08 pm #

    Dangerous Glenn Beck Rhetoric May Have Pushed a Man to Violence

    Glenn Beck’s vitriolic language and over-the-top attacks on various groups that he deems as deviant, communist or plotters to overthrow the American way of life, may have almost turned deadly.

    For who knows what reason, Beck has targeted a relatively obscure, left-leaning organization called the “Tides Foundation.” The group, on its website, says that its mission is “to partner with philanthropists, foundations, activists and organizations across the country and across the globe to promote economic justice, robust democratic processes and the opportunity to live in a healthy and sustainable environment, where human rights are preserved and protected.”

    According to MediaMatters, the Tides Foundation was mentioned on Fox News 31 times, 29 of them by Beck. The other two were by Sean Hannity. Beck called the group thugs who indoctrinate schoolchildren on his July 14th show.

    On July 18th, police pulled over a two-strike felon named Byron Williams (pictured). He was allegedly wearing body armor and had an extensive amount of ammunition in his car. He allegedly opened fire on the California Highway Police, and more than 60 rounds were exchanged.

    Where was Williams headed? According to Oakland police, Williams, 45, said “his intention was to start a revolution by traveling to San Francisco and killing people of importance at the Tides Foundation and the ACLU.”

    Williams’ mother said that he was angry at left-leaning politicians, watched a lot of television and was angry at “what’s happening to our country,” especially “the way Congress was railroading through all these left-wing agenda items.”

    This should be a wake-up call for all of the people who think Beck’s rhetoric is a joke. It is potentially fatal. Words have the power to spark people into action. And when Beck’s paranoid rhetoric reaches mentally unstable people down on their luck, this is what happens.

    Eric Bohlert, a senior fellow at MediaMatters, described some of the language Beck and his colleagues use:

    And don’t forget about the unhinged response when health care reform was passed in March: “Get down on your knees and pray. Pray. It’s September 11th all over again, except that we didn’t have the collapsing buildings.” After financial reform passed last week, Beck told his audience, “Your republic is over.”

    Meanwhile, Andrew Breitbart’s website recently tagged Obama as the “suicide-bomber-in-chief,” while the conservative Washington Times just last week published an op-ed — by a former congressman, no less — asserting the president poses more of a threat to America than al Qaeda.

    I wonder what Beck would have said if Williams succeeded with his plan and innocent people were murdered because of their political leanings.

    “On occasion, the shadow of violence falls on American civic life and it should never be accepted or tolerated. Often, it is encouraged by partisan voices who label activities of which they disapprove by suggesting they are “anti-American” or some other epithet,” Tides CEO Drummond Pike said in a statement.
    “This incident serves to remind us that it should be the obligation of every American, especially those whose voices are amplified by the media, to foster civil discourse and dialogue among those who may disagree about public matters. One does not win an argument by inciting unbalanced people to violence. As Americans, we know we are best at solving problems when we reach broadly across boundaries for the best of ideas. Intolerance that closes our eyes defeats our aspirations.”

    The sad part is that commentators like Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Bill O’Reilly spew this potentially fatal rhetoric for money. They’ve gotten rich by spreading fear, lies and paranoia of the type seen in the Shirley Sherrod and New Black Panther Party cases. As Professor Michael Eric Dyson said, the Far Right is using the fact that we have a black president to stir already existent racial paranoia.

    Corporate entities need to be held responsible for allowing this dangerous rhetoric that is not based on fact in the air.

    The irony of it all is that Williams’ mother said her son was upset after he got out of prison, because of the amount of unemployment he was receiving and that he couldn’t find work as a cabinet maker because of his criminal record.

    The ACLU and Tides foundation probably did more to improve those issues yesterday than someone like Beck has done in his entire life.

    http://www.bvblackspin.com/2010/07/28/dangerous-glenn-beck-rhetoric-/

  217. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 29, 2010 at 12:22 pm #

    We just have to look to O’Reilly after the George Tiller murder to see how these people react when nutjobs take their crusades to the extreme. O’reilly basically claimed it wasn’t his fault and he has no responsibility for his words. Beck will just claim he’s a rodeo clown and has no responsibility.

  218. avatar
    Black Lion July 29, 2010 at 12:22 pm #

    Fox Nation Erupts In Threats Of Violence Over Arizona Immigration Ruling
    Reported by Ellen – July 28, 2010

    Those patriots at Fox Nation, a site that is supposedly devoted to people who “believe we live in a great country” and “observing the basic rules of civility and mutual respect,” is full of open threats on its thread about the Arizona immigration ruling just handed down. Sample screen grabs after the jump. (H/T Erik V)

    http://www.newshounds.us/2010/07/28/fox_nation_erupts_in_threats_of_violence_over_arizona_immigration_ruling.php#more

  219. avatar
    G July 29, 2010 at 2:09 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Is it just me, or does anyone else see a very real possibility that the Republican’s big chance to take over the House in the off-year election will implode because of the extremist power grab within the Party?

    Its not just you. This is exactly the scenario I see playing out. Extremism leads to self-destructive behavior and is actually fairly predictable in that respect.

  220. avatar
    G July 29, 2010 at 2:24 pm #

    BL, Thanks as always for all of the news reports. Wow, that’s a lot of insanity, delusion and hate happening right now, even by the standards of wingnuttery!

    WND’s stuff was the most pathetic of the bunch – their whole HRC meme boils down to a commentary rant by some anonymous PUMA. LMAO! The PUMAs are probably the only group of nuts that can out EPIC FAIL the Birthers… how pathetic and laughable!

    The cRAP Master folks – wow…just wow…talk about people that obviously can’t tell the difference between fiction and fantasy at all. They cite the movie Futureworld as their proof? Seriously??? LMAO! Why do I have the feeling that these folks believe that there are real talking sponges living in pineapples at the bottom of the sea… LOL!

    Re: the Byron Williams incident – yeah – I totally think that Glenn Beck and FOX is responsible for goading the actions of unstable nuts like this… Unfortunately, until these demagogues are held to account for their words, we’re going to be seeing a lot more incidents like that…

  221. avatar
    Black Lion July 29, 2010 at 2:44 pm #

    G: BL, Thanks as always for all of the news reports. Wow, that’s a lot of insanity, delusion and hate happening right now, even by the standards of wingnuttery! WND’s stuff was the most pathetic of the bunch – their whole HRC meme boils down to a commentary rant by some anonymous PUMA. LMAO! The PUMAs are probably the only group of nuts that can out EPIC FAIL the Birthers… how pathetic and laughable!The cRAP Master folks – wow…just wow…talk about people that obviously can’t tell the difference between fiction and fantasy at all. They cite the movie Futureworld as their proof? Seriously??? LMAO! Why do I have the feeling that these folks believe that there are real talking sponges living in pineapples at the bottom of the sea… LOL!Re: the Byron Williams incident – yeah – I totally think that Glenn Beck and FOX is responsible for goading the actions of unstable nuts like this… Unfortunately, until these demagogues are held to account for their words, we’re going to be seeing a lot more incidents like that…

    G, no problem. Sometimes we forget how far down the rabbit hole some of the birthers or those of their ilk have gone. The so called “Rap”pers are just a bunch of crazy loons….It is amazing to me that there are acutally people out there that would believe in that nonsense. I know that Sven believes in fantasy 10 year olds that can renounce their US citizenships and companies that would allow a Indonesian “refugee” US Citizen to return to the US and get papers, including a SS number for him. But these wingnuts are way beyond that.
    And Beck, I am surprised that no one watching his show or listening to him has resorted to violence yet. He is the worst of the bunch, but FOX news is just a culpable because they allow this and other non factual nonsense on the airwaves. Basically for these individuals, as long as it is anti-Obama it is OK, no matter if we can actually prove it or not…

  222. avatar
    G July 29, 2010 at 2:57 pm #

    Black Lion: And Beck, I am surprised that no one watching his show or listening to him has resorted to violence yet. He is the worst of the bunch, but FOX news is just a culpable because they allow this and other non factual nonsense on the airwaves. Basically for these individuals, as long as it is anti-Obama it is OK, no matter if we can actually prove it or not…

    I don’t think you can comfortably say that no one listening to FOX or Beck hasn’t resorted to violence yet at all….

    For one thing, Byron Williams *did* start a major shootout with the cops that conducted the traffic stop on him. He wasn’t just taken in and thwarted before he began his reign of terror – he started shooting at the cops as soon as they pulled him over. So, even though a bigger incident was averted, his act was still an inspired act of rage and intentional violence.

    I think many of the other incidents of domestic terrorism we’ve seen over the past two years (and there have been quite a number of them – I’ve been tracking them) had similar RW inspiration goading these folks on and playing into their hate & fears…and even worse, using terminology in their demagoguery that the unhinged could use to justify their actions.

  223. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 29, 2010 at 3:07 pm #

    G: I don’t think you can comfortably say that no one listening to FOX or Beck hasn’t resorted to violence yet at all….For one thing, Byron Williams *did* start a major shootout with the cops that conducted the traffic stop on him. He wasn’t just taken in and thwarted before he began his reign of terror – he started shooting at the cops as soon as they pulled him over. So, even though a bigger incident was averted, his act was still an inspired act of rage and intentional violence.I think many of the other incidents of domestic terrorism we’ve seen over the past two years (and there have been quite a number of them – I’ve been tracking them) had similar RW inspiration goading these folks on and playing into their hate & fears…and even worse, using terminology in their demagoguery that the unhinged could use to justify their actions.

    He did injur two cops during his shootout did he not? But their rhetoric in general can be blamed for the way they stoke the flames of hatred and pushing for armed resistance. Take for instance what happened in Pennsylvania last year

  224. avatar
    Black Lion July 29, 2010 at 3:18 pm #

    G: I don’t think you can comfortably say that no one listening to FOX or Beck hasn’t resorted to violence yet at all….For one thing, Byron Williams *did* start a major shootout with the cops that conducted the traffic stop on him. He wasn’t just taken in and thwarted before he began his reign of terror – he started shooting at the cops as soon as they pulled him over. So, even though a bigger incident was averted, his act was still an inspired act of rage and intentional violence.I think many of the other incidents of domestic terrorism we’ve seen over the past two years (and there have been quite a number of them – I’ve been tracking them) had similar RW inspiration goading these folks on and playing into their hate & fears…and even worse, using terminology in their demagoguery that the unhinged could use to justify their actions.

    True. I didn’t mean to say that there has been no violence associated with Beck and his ilk. I guess there will never be an incident where the guilty party will scream “Glenn Beck made me do it”… It is sometimes I am loathe to make sweeping generalizations….But in this case it is difficult not to….

  225. avatar
    G July 29, 2010 at 3:19 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    He did injur two cops during his shootout did he not?But their rhetoric in general can be blamed for the way they stoke the flames of hatred and pushing for armed resistance.Take for instance what happened in Pennsylvania last year

    Yes, several cops sustained some minor injuries in that shoot-out with Byron Williams. I believe that they were secondary-cause injuries – cuts from broken glass that shattered as a result of the bullets fired by Williams.

    I think the PA case you are referring to is Richard Poplawski, who on 4/4/2009 killed 3 cops & injured 2 more (shot & killed Officer Stephen Mayhle, Officer Paul Scuillo II and Officer Eric Kelly last April in Stanton Heights & injured 2 other officers) when they came to his house to investigate a case of domestic violence. He was ranting on about Obama taking away his guns. Investigations into his background and other writings show that he was also a “birther” who posted on Stormfront.

    Richard Poplawski was a fan of Alex Jones, Fox News, Ron Paul & Glenn Beck. He was also a White-supremacist and “Survivalist”. He hated Jews & blamed “Zionists” for Obama.

    So yes, that is a perfect example of where this has already happened. There are quite a few others as well, but I’ve got to run to a baseball game. If I get back tonight and there is still interest in other examples, I’ll share some more.

  226. avatar
    Black Lion July 29, 2010 at 3:29 pm #

    And then you have Hannity following the FOX agenda to stoke racial fears by continuing the theme that Obama is racist and there is a movement afoot for minorities to somehow get revenge for the years of institutionalized racism…

    “Sanctimonious sourpuss Michelle Malkin made her regular weekly visit to the Hannity show last night (7/28/10). Hannity’s racialized anti-Obama agenda was obvious from the start when, instead of just discussing the Arizona immigration ruling earlier in the day, he made a point of repeatedly adding the “(racial) politics” of the Obama Department of Justice into the mix. While Malkin is nothing if not a racial demagogue, she doesn’t usually make a point of attacking Obama as a racist, as so many other Fox News pundits do. Hannity’s repeated attempts to get her to do so would have been funny if it weren’t so toxic.

    Malkin started with what I have predicted will be the next step in the race baiting going on at Fox News lately, tying it in to their regular, bi-yearly hysteria over voter fraud. “This is particularly concerning with regard to the integrity of the electoral process and voting rights. It’s not just the Panthers’ case where they’ve shown this propensity to turn their noses at protecting voter rights in certain cases.” She went on to complain about their “meddl(ing) with the State of Georgia which wanted to tighten its citizenship eligibility.”

    Hannity, however, didn’t want to go there. He interrupted Malkin in order to play the race card. “Let me ask through this prism. There’s gotta be a motivation. You’re saying it’s social justice. So you think is – There’s gotta be an agenda here. When you talk about issues involving race… what have you concluded the agenda is?”

    Malking responded, “With regard to race… they see institutional racism as some sort of immoral sin that still needs to be cleansed. And they see their roles not as protecting equal justice under the law but favoring or disfavoring certain political groups for their own long-term ideological and electoral gain. And that certainly is true with the immigration issue as well.” She went on to say that the focus on immigration was not national security or enforcement of laws but the “benefit of the Democrat Party and a permanent ruling majority.”

    Once again, Hannity pushed her toward focusing on race. “What are we to make of the former head of the Civil Rights Commission, Mary Frances Berry, she acknowledged… that the Obama administration has taken to polarizing America around the issue of race as a means of diverting attention away from other issues…”

    Finally, Malkin took the bait, but obviously not to the extent that Hannity hoped. “I think it’s certainly true that the race card is certainly the last and first refuge of left-wing scoundrels.” Then she moved on to talk about the Arizona ruling.

    Perhaps because the segment was near an end, Hannity dropped the point.”

    http://www.newshounds.us/2010/07/29/hannity_repeatedly_pushes_michelle_malkin_into_suggesting_obamas_a_racist.php#more

    Or this gem from Hannity along with the infamous Gov. Brewer….

    “Arizona Governor Jan Brewer joined Sean Hannity tonight to discuss today’s ruling that blocked certain key provisions of her state’s immigration law scheduled to go into effect tomorrow. First, she agreed with Hannity’s fear mongering suggestion that the “federal government won’t protect American citizens.” Then, she urged viewers to go to the website of her state’s legal defense fund and “help us out with a five buck donation or fifty dollar donation.”

    Hannity began the segment with the leading question, “Is it a fair interpretation in your mind, today’s court ruling, to say that it appears that the federal government won’t protect American citizens, won’t enforce the law and also, on the other hand, now the State of Arizona, you can’t do it either. Is that fair?”

    “That’s very fair. That’s the truth,” Brewer replied.

    She later said, “This is going to be, you know a significant cost, of course, to the State of Arizona and so I just keep thanking people for their support and their encouragement and ask them to be considerate and go to (she named her website), my legal defense fund, and help us out with a five buck donation or fifty dollar donation. We’re going to need it.”

    Brewer also threatened to sue the federal government for not enforcing the federal immigration laws.

    I’m surprised Hannity didn’t repeat the URL for her website at the end.”

    One year later: Right-wing media routinely call Obama racist
    July 28, 2010 7:34 am ET — 32 Comments
    On July 28, 2009, Glenn Beck called President Obama a “racist” with a “deep-seated hatred for white people or the white culture.” While Beck has reportedly lost more than 100 advertisers since he made those comments, right-wing media figures now routinely call Obama or members of his administration “racist.”

    http://mediamatters.org/research/201007280007

  227. avatar
    Majority Will July 29, 2010 at 3:53 pm #

    Black Lion: And then you have Hannity following the FOX agenda to stoke racial fears by continuing the theme that Obama is racist and there is a movement afoot for minorities to somehow get revenge for the years of institutionalized racism…“Sanctimonious sourpuss Michelle Malkin made her regular weekly visit to the Hannity show last night (7/28/10). Hannity’s racialized anti-Obama agenda was obvious from the start when, instead of just discussing the Arizona immigration ruling earlier in the day, he made a point of repeatedly adding the “(racial) politics” of the Obama Department of Justice into the mix. While Malkin is nothing if not a racial demagogue, she doesn’t usually make a point of attacking Obama as a racist, as so many other Fox News pundits do. Hannity’s repeated attempts to get her to do so would have been funny if it weren’t so toxic.Malkin started with what I have predicted will be the next step in the race baiting going on at Fox News lately, tying it in to their regular, bi-yearly hysteria over voter fraud. “This is particularly concerning with regard to the integrity of the electoral process and voting rights. It’s not just the Panthers’ case where they’ve shown this propensity to turn their noses at protecting voter rights in certain cases.” She went on to complain about their “meddl(ing) with the State of Georgia which wanted to tighten its citizenship eligibility.”Hannity, however, didn’t want to go there. He interrupted Malkin in order to play the race card. “Let me ask through this prism. There’s gotta be a motivation. You’re saying it’s social justice. So you think is – There’s gotta be an agenda here. When you talk about issues involving race… what have you concluded the agenda is?”Malking responded, “With regard to race… they see institutional racism as some sort of immoral sin that still needs to be cleansed. And they see their roles not as protecting equal justice under the law but favoring or disfavoring certain political groups for their own long-term ideological and electoral gain. And that certainly is true with the immigration issue as well.” She went on to say that the focus on immigration was not national security or enforcement of laws but the “benefit of the Democrat Party and a permanent ruling majority.”Once again, Hannity pushed her toward focusing on race. “What are we to make of the former head of the Civil Rights Commission, Mary Frances Berry, she acknowledged… that the Obama administration has taken to polarizing America around the issue of race as a means of diverting attention away from other issues…”Finally, Malkin took the bait, but obviously not to the extent that Hannity hoped. “I think it’s certainly true that the race card is certainly the last and first refuge of left-wing scoundrels.” Then she moved on to talk about the Arizona ruling.
    Perhaps because the segment was near an end, Hannity dropped the point.”http://www.newshounds.us/2010/07/29/hannity_repeatedly_pushes_michelle_malkin_into_suggesting_obamas_a_racist.php#moreOr this gem from Hannity along with the infamous Gov. Brewer….“Arizona Governor Jan Brewer joined Sean Hannity tonight to discuss today’s ruling that blocked certain key provisions of her state’s immigration law scheduled to go into effect tomorrow. First, she agreed with Hannity’s fear mongering suggestion that the “federal government won’t protect American citizens.” Then, she urged viewers to go to the website of her state’s legal defense fund and “help us out with a five buck donation or fifty dollar donation.”Hannity began the segment with the leading question, “Is it a fair interpretation in your mind, today’s court ruling, to say that it appears that the federal government won’t protect American citizens, won’t enforce the law and also, on the other hand, now the State of Arizona, you can’t do it either. Is that fair?”“That’s very fair. That’s the truth,” Brewer replied.She later said, “This is going to be, you know a significant cost, of course, to the State of Arizona and so I just keep thanking people for their support and their encouragement and ask them to be considerate and go to (she named her website), my legal defense fund, and help us out with a five buck donation or fifty dollar donation. We’re going to need it.”Brewer also threatened to sue the federal government for not enforcing the federal immigration laws.I’m surprised Hannity didn’t repeat the URL for her website at the end.”One year later: Right-wing media routinely call Obama racist
    July 28, 2010 7:34 am ET — 32 Comments
    On July 28, 2009, Glenn Beck called President Obama a “racist” with a “deep-seated hatred for white people or the white culture.” While Beck has reportedly lost more than 100 advertisers since he made those comments, right-wing media figures now routinely call Obama or members of his administration “racist.”http://mediamatters.org/research/201007280007

    And speaking of the current racism firestorm, “Former Agriculture Department employee Shirley Sherrod said Thursday she will pursue a lawsuit against conservative blogger Andrew Breitbart.”

    “I will definitely do it,” she said when asked whether she was considering legal action. Sherrod made her remarks during an appearance at the National Association of Black Journalists convention in San Diego, California.
    Breitbart “had to know that he was targeting me,” Sherrod said. “At this point, he hasn’t apologized. I don’t want it at this point, and he’ll definitely hear from me.”

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/07/29/sherrod.lawsuit.breitbart/?hpt=Sbin

  228. avatar
    G July 30, 2010 at 1:24 am #

    Majority Will: And speaking of the current racism firestorm, “Former Agriculture Department employee Shirley Sherrod said Thursday she will pursue a lawsuit against conservative blogger Andrew Breitbart.”

    “I will definitely do it,” she said when asked whether she was considering legal action. Sherrod made her remarks during an appearance at the National Association of Black Journalists convention in San Diego, California.
    Breitbart “had to know that he was targeting me,” Sherrod said. “At this point, he hasn’t apologized. I don’t want it at this point, and he’ll definitely hear from me.”

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/07/29/sherrod.lawsuit.breitbart/?hpt=Sbin

    Good! I’m glad she’s willing to stand up to these vile bullies. Her actions should serve as an example on how these fear/smear merchants need to be dealt with.

  229. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 30, 2010 at 7:49 am #

    G: Good! I’m glad she’s [Shirley Sherrod] willing to stand up to these vile bullies. Her actions should serve as an example on how these fear/smear merchants need to be dealt with.

    Hear! Hear!

  230. avatar
    Black Lion July 30, 2010 at 10:28 am #

    As usual WND is practicing in Obama derangement….Is it me or they are not even trying to pretend to be an actual news organization…

    Obama (And ‘The View’) Derangement Syndrome Watch
    Topic: WorldNetDaily
    One could forgive [Obama] for attending an urgent meeting with Hamid Karzai, his intelligence chiefs or even his pathetic economic team. Better still if he had scheduled a meeting with a cadre of experienced economists who actually know the difference between a government giveaway and an economic stimulus, who are smart enough – and honest enough – to have paid their taxes. Wow! That would be a momentous event worthy of his undivided attention – but no!
    The Boy Scouts were dissed just so he could appear on “The View” with a group of vacuous airheads. Instead of encouraging a group of young, highly motivated achievers, Obama chose to discuss political issues on a program that is designed to appeal to welfare queens and other mentally challenged ne’er-do-wells, who park themselves on couches to watch the drivel on daytime television.
    — Jane Chastain, July 29 WorldNetDaily column
    (Chastain tries to hide the fact that President Reagan never attended a Boy Scout Jamboree with the redirection that “President Ronald Reagan sent the first lady to the 1985 event.”)

    WND’s Really Desperate Obama Attack of the Day
    Topic: WorldNetDaily
    How desperate is WorldNetDaily to attack President Obama? It’s smearing people who might have worked somewhere near him.
    A July 30 WND article begins:
    A company working on behalf of a Las Vegas newspaper has filed a spate of copyright-infringement lawsuits against as many as 80 individuals and publications since March, and now bloggers reveal the CEO may have crossed paths with Barack and Michelle Obama during their stints at a Chicago law firm.

    According to Wired.com, copyright group Righthaven has filed more than 80 federal lawsuits against websites and bloggers who posted articles from the Las Vegas Review-Journal.

    […]
    According to his online work profile, Steven A. Gibson, CEO of Righthaven, studied law at the Chicago-Kent University of Law and graduated with honors in 1990. The Godlike Productions blog noted Gibson worked as an associate at corporate law firm Sidley Austin LLP – the Chicago firm where Obama met his wife.

    As WND reported, Michelle Obama was an associate at Sidley Austin from 1988 to 1991. Her specialty was marketing and intellectual property.
    That’s right — WND is claiming that Gibson is doing the bidding of the Obama administration by enforcing copyrights — an issue of intellectual property rights, not a political issue — because he might have worked with one Obama or another 20 years ago.
    Another thing WND fails to mention, presumably because it’s inconvenient to its anti-Obama agenda: The Las Vegas Review-Journal, under the leadership of publisher Sherman Frederick, is a staunchly conservative and rabidly anti-Obama newspaper.

  231. avatar
    Lupin July 30, 2010 at 10:35 am #

    G: Good! I’m glad she’s willing to stand up to these vile bullies. Her actions should serve as an example on how these fear/smear merchants need to be dealt with.

    Hear! Hear!

    Unlike the “other side” which knows how to use and frankly misuse your Courts for their meretricious ends (cf. Apuzzo, Mario) I’m always astonished that “our side” doesn’t sue the bastards into bankruptcy, like the Southern Law poverty Center has done with the militias.

  232. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 30, 2010 at 10:58 am #

    @lupin

    It is difficult for a public figure (broadly defined) to sue for defamation in this country (Times v Sullivan) and that’s why you see so few of them.

  233. avatar
    Majority Will July 30, 2010 at 11:02 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: @lupinIt is difficult for a public figure (broadly defined) to sue for defamation in this country (Times v Sullivan) and that’s why you see so few of them.

    Ironically, anyone else suing a birther attorney would have to prove standing.

  234. avatar
    Jules July 30, 2010 at 11:07 am #

    I now see that I misunderstood Lupin’s comment, as I had read it in isolation. I withdraw my comment and apolosigse, as I now see that the argument is not to argue for further birther claims, but rather to argue for defamation claims. I also see from the context that Lupin was not referring to SPLC legal action diapprovingly, as I had thought.

    The reason for my mistake was that i read the comment in isolation from the latest e-mail of a comment to this thread and did not look at other comments on the page before crafting my response. I should have paid more attention to context and I apologise for my error.

    [The comment to which this refers has been deleted by the author’s request.]

  235. avatar
    misha July 30, 2010 at 11:14 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: It is difficult for a public figure (broadly defined) to sue for defamation in this country (Times v Sullivan) and that’s why you see so few of them.

    The question is whether Sherrod is a public figure. I say she is not; the Ag secretary is. Merely being a government employee does not automatically mean a public figure; the position held determines that.

    Even so, it will cause a lot of grief for Breitbart. Her attorney will handle it on contingency. His attorney will have to be paid up front. When Glenn Beck went after that website, it cost him $250K.

    One caveat: her attorney will have to serve Breitbart with a subpoena. I don’t know how easy that will be. No service, no lawsuit.

  236. avatar
    BatGuano July 30, 2010 at 11:18 am #

    Black Lion: …a program that is designed to appeal to welfare queens and other mentally challenged ne’er-do-wells,…

    i would love to see that media kit sent out to advertisers. ” we’ve designed the program to only appeal to those with absolutely no disposable income and only absolute basic needs……”. that’s going to bring the advertising revenue pouring in.

  237. avatar
    Black Lion July 30, 2010 at 11:55 am #

    More derangement….

    “There have been other cases involving members of the military questioning the President’s eligibility. Capt. Connie Rhodes, an Army doctor, filed suit in the U.S. District Court in Columbus, Ga. requesting a restraining order stopping her deployment to Iraq, the case is currently under appeal. Dr. Orly Taitz told the Gazette she is currently representing over 200 members of the military on eligibility issues. Taitz was born and raised in the former Soviet Union and is the President of Defend Our Freedoms Foundation. She is currently running for California Secretary of State.

    Regarding the Certification of Live Birth, Taitz said she has an affidavit from a relative of Obama who is a computational linguist who has noted two discrepancies in the certificate. One is the use of “African” for the father’s race instead of the term “Negro” which was the common designation at that time. The other is the child’s name “Barack Hussein Obama II” in those years the designation was “Jr.” on documents. “Linguistically, there are a number of inconsistencies along with selective service certificates. He doesn’t have any vital documents available for the public to view” Taitz said “We do not have a judge with integrity who will follow the law and the constitution and hear the case on its merits.”

    http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=4245

    I guess the writer has drank the Orly Kool-aid…

  238. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 30, 2010 at 12:21 pm #

    Black Lion: (citing Orly Taitz) “Linguistically, there are a number of inconsistencies along with selective service certificates.

    Yet another irony meter explodes.

  239. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 30, 2010 at 12:24 pm #

    Misha: The question is whether Sherrod is a public figure. I say she is not; the Ag secretary is. Merely being a government employee does not automatically mean a public figure; the position held determines that.

    The Washington Times said:

    However, specialists in the laws covering defamation and depiction in a false light – the obvious avenues for a legal case here – were skeptical that Mrs. Sherrod could win such a lawsuit, and one even guessed that Mr. Breitbart should be celebrating.

    “I would guess that Mrs. Sherrod is going to be seen as a public official,” said Sandra Baron, executive director for the Media Law Resource Center. And as a public official, Mrs. Sherrod will have a “fairly significant burden to bear in order to be able to win any kind of suit against Mr. Breitbart.”

    Because of First Amendment free-press protections, public people must do more than prove someone published “facts” that were false and harmed their reputations. Mrs. Sherrod would have to prove Mr. Breitbart acted with a “reckless disregard for the truth” and posted the video “knowing it was false,” she explained.

    “It’s not meant to be easy, and Ms. Sherrod is not going to have an easy time, I suspect,” Ms. Baron said.

  240. avatar
    Majority Will July 30, 2010 at 1:03 pm #

    Black Lion: More derangement….“There have been other cases involving members of the military questioning the President’s eligibility. Capt. Connie Rhodes, an Army doctor, filed suit in the U.S. District Court in Columbus, Ga. requesting a restraining order stopping her deployment to Iraq, the case is currently under appeal. Dr. Orly Taitz told the Gazette she is currently representing over 200 members of the military on eligibility issues. Taitz was born and raised in the former Soviet Union and is the President of Defend Our Freedoms Foundation. She is currently running for California Secretary of State.Regarding the Certification of Live Birth, Taitz said she has an affidavit from a relative of Obama who is a computational linguist who has noted two discrepancies in the certificate. One is the use of “African” for the father’s race instead of the term “Negro” which was the common designation at that time. The other is the child’s name “Barack Hussein Obama II” in those years the designation was “Jr.” on documents. “Linguistically, there are a number of inconsistencies along with selective service certificates. He doesn’t have any vital documents available for the public to view” Taitz said “We do not have a judge with integrity who will follow the law and the constitution and hear the case on its merits.”http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=4245I guess the writer has drank the Orly Kool-aid…

    And the masochistic, birther troll, yguy has reared his ugly, little head again over at CAAFlog only to get soundly thrashed:

    http://www.caaflog.com/2010/07/29/ltc-lakins-counsel-requests-deposition-of-hawaii-official/

  241. avatar
    Black Lion July 30, 2010 at 3:16 pm #

    Majority Will: And the masochistic, birther troll, yguy has reared his ugly, little head again over at CAAFlog only to get soundly thrashed:http://www.caaflog.com/2010/07/29/ltc-lakins-counsel-requests-deposition-of-hawaii-official/

    The best description regarding yguy was by the following poster Trevor….I guess Yguy isn’t that popular over there either….

    Trevor says:
    July 29, 2010 at 1:46 pm (Quote) Ahhhhhh, the Birferstani…….

    Speaking of, where for is LieGuy….sorry Yguy, here to smack us all down for not understanding how Birfer Law is the only true law……8-)

  242. avatar
    Expelliarmus July 30, 2010 at 3:58 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Because of First Amendment free-press protections, public people must do more than prove someone published “facts” that were false and harmed their reputations. Mrs. Sherrod would have to prove Mr. Breitbart acted with a “reckless disregard for the truth” and posted the video “knowing it was false,” she explained.

    The video was obviously edited and didn’t contain the full text of the remarks — and it was used to brand Sherrod a racist. Even a cursory check into her background would have told another story. I’d argue that Breitbart knew the video was false, because he knew it was incomplete (obvious) — and that there was a reckless disregard for the truth when he failed to investigate, starting by calling Ms. Sherrod for comment.

  243. avatar
    Rickey July 30, 2010 at 3:59 pm #

    More wackiness from Orly, courtesy of Oh For Goodness Sake blog:

    http://ohforgoodnesssake.com/?p=11750

  244. avatar
    Majority Will July 30, 2010 at 4:02 pm #

    Black Lion:
    The best description regarding yguy was by the following poster Trevor….I guess Yguy isn’t that popular over there either….Trevor says:
    July 29, 2010 at 1:46 pm (Quote) Ahhhhhh, the Birferstani…….Speaking of, where for is LieGuy….sorry Yguy, here to smack us all down for not understanding how Birfer Law is the only true law……8-)

    And such a fragile ego.

  245. avatar
    Black Lion July 30, 2010 at 4:33 pm #

    Humor courtsey of the posters over at the Post and Fail….Hate can drive you to believe almost anything….

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/07/29/press-release-from-the-american-patriot-foundation-on-lt-col-terry-lakin/#comments

    Pete says:
    Friday, July 30, 2010 at 8:56 AM
    SteveT,
    I am not a lawyer, never been in the military. I am told that the United States Marine code is different than the other branches of the military. Specifically, if a Marine believes he has been given an unlawful order is OBLIGATED to not follow it. Ltc. Lakin is undoubtably convinced that Obama is an Ursuper, that is well supported by the new releases and his statements.

    The catch is, Lakin IS NOT UNDER THE COMMAND of OBAMA technically (this is what I have been told by military) until he is deployed. On US soil, he is under the jurisdiction of the govenor of the state that he serves, once deployed this all changes. When deployed he is accepting an order from Obama, whom he believes is not a legal POTUS, which makes Ltc Lakin a WAR CRIMINAL by the World Court. Again I am not a lawyer, this is what I have been told by active military, and retired military.

    Your question is that he doesn’t have proof that Obama isn’t a legal POTUS. Yes, he does have proof. That proof comes from Obama himself when he said, and his father claimed, that he was the son of Obama Sr.—-A British Citizen and Subject. No matter where Obama was born, the British Government claimed Jurisdiction over his birth, and Obama has publically claimed that he recognized this jurisdiction and British Citizenship. Thus, He was NEVER a Natural Born Citizen, because he has claimed, and other governments have claimed, jurisdiction over his birth.

    Pete

    SteveT says:
    Thursday, July 29, 2010 at 4:36 PM
    It seems to me, as an ordinary layperson, that Ltc. Lakin’s defense is barking up the wrong tree. If you are going to disobey an order, your reason for doing so had better be based on fact. If you have a fact that directly impugns the legitimacy of an order, you might have a valid reason for disobeying that order.

    But if your reason for disobeying an order had no factual basis, that is, if your reason was based on nothing more than your own conjecture and speculation, then your disobedience was ill-considered and ill-advised.

    There is no verified fact that directly impugns Obama’s birth in Hawaii. There are reasons for suspicion and doubt regarding the President’s place of birth, but suspicion and doubt are not valid reasons for disobeying an order.

    If Ltc.Lakin disobeyed orders solely because of the Obama birthplace issue, he made a mistake, because his reason for doing so was not fact-based. Even if he discovers new information showing conclusively that Obama was foreign-born, it doesn’t change the fact that, at the time of his disobedience, he did not have a factual justification for his action. He acted solely on the basis of his own speculation. Even if his speculation is later shown to be correct, it was still nothing more than speculation at the time.

    The only information that is relevant to his case is the information that Ltc. Lakin had in his possession at the time of his disobedience. The discovery of new information that he didn’t have at the time is an utter waste of time, because whatever information he didn’t have is irrelevant.

    However, Ltc.Lakin did have a verified fact that directly impugns Obama’s eligibility to serve as president — Obama’s British/Kenyan citizenship at birth, which is a fact that Obama himself has verified in his book and on his website. According to John Jay’s letter to George Washington (25 July 1787), the reason for the “natural born citizen” provision was to exclude “foreigners” from the presidency. Since natural born citizenship is established only at birth, the only plausible meaning of “foreigner” in Jay’s letter is a person who was a “foreigner” (a citizen of subject of a foreign country) at birth. It seems to me that Ltc.Lakin has a powerfully compelling factual basis for concluding that Obama’s presidency, hence any order that he issued as president, is not legitimate.

    Please advise Ltc.Lakin that, among his supporters, there is utter exasperation and profound bewilderment that he would pursue a patently dubious defense — based solely on conjecture and speculation regarding Obama’s place of birth — when he could be pursuing a much stronger and more compelling defense, based on the verified fact of Obama’s foreign citizenship at birth.

  246. avatar
    Majority Will July 30, 2010 at 4:55 pm #

    Rickey: More wackiness from Orly, courtesy of Oh For Goodness Sake blog:http://ohforgoodnesssake.com/?p=11750

    Orly advocating sedition and violence:
    “It is frightening that the courts are so obviously in Obama’s corner. Was there a payoff, a threat or a promise from Obama to the courts? It’s hard to determine until we have a Conservative majority in the House and the Senate. When we do, the Senators and Congressmen, MUST pursue the truth no matter where and to whom it may lead.
    As for guns, etc. if it comes to that, then I have no guilt. I and millions of us did not start this, but we are going to finish it. God help us and hopefully we won’t ever have to come to that conclusion.”

    She is vile and a disgrace to this nation. She reminds me of Icarus and is headed towards martyrdom.

  247. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 30, 2010 at 5:06 pm #

    Expelliarmus: I’d argue that Breitbart knew the video was false, because he knew it was incomplete (obvious) — and that there was a reckless disregard for the truth when he failed to investigate, starting by calling Ms. Sherrod for comment.

    More power to her if she can prevail. I can add a PayPal button (probably unneeded) for her legal defense fund.

  248. avatar
    Rickey July 30, 2010 at 5:20 pm #

    Black Lion (quoting from Post & Fail):
    I am not a lawyer, never been in the military. I am told that the United States Marine code is different than the other branches of the military. Specifically, if a Marine believes he has been given an unlawful order is OBLIGATED to not follow it.

    Wow, there seemingly is no limit to the number of ways the birthers can get it wrong. The Marine Corps is not a separate branch of the miliary – it is a corps within the Navy. And of course Marines are subject to the same UCMJ as everyone else in the U.S. armed forces. Not that it matters, since Lakin isn’t a Marine!

    It has occurred to me that Jensen could get inspiration for his closing arguments from Groucho in DUCK SOUP:

    Rufus T. Firefly: Gentlemen, Chicolini here may talk like an idiot, and look like an idiot, but don’t let that fool you: he really is an idiot. I implore you, send him back to his father and brothers, who are waiting for him with open arms in the penitentiary. I suggest that we give him ten years in Leavenworth, or eleven years in Twelveworth.

  249. avatar
    bovril July 30, 2010 at 5:20 pm #

    Black Lion: Trevor says:
    July 29, 2010 at 1:46 pm (Quote) Ahhhhhh, the Birferstani…….
    Speaking of, where for is LieGuy….sorry Yguy, here to smack us all down for not understanding how Birfer Law is the only true law……8-)

    Who sir…..me sir……..>8-)

    Lieguy no longer loves me alas, when I ask him questions over at TR he ignores me….boo hoo

  250. avatar
    misha July 30, 2010 at 5:25 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: More power to her if she can prevail. I can add a PayPal button (probably unneeded) for her legal defense fund.

    Sherrod’s lawyer will work on contingency. Breitbart will have to pay upfront. Ha ha.

  251. avatar
    aarrgghh July 31, 2010 at 2:44 am #

    misha:
    One caveat: her attorney will have to serve Breitbart with a subpoena. I don’t know how easy that will be. No service, no lawsuit.

    no caveat necessary: will bratbart decide public appearances are no longer necessary to further his career?

  252. avatar
    misha July 31, 2010 at 2:47 am #

    aarrgghh: no caveat necessary: will bratbart decide public appearances are no longer necessary to further his career?

    Good point. He’s not going to hide.