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John McCain the “Panamanian Candidate”

Let me begin by saying that this article is an anecdote, and not a research article. At best it’s a starting point for discussion.

I am in Panama this week. I struck up a conversation with our Panamanian guide, and asked her how Panamanians reacted to McCain’s run for the US Presidency. She said that the people were very surprised to learn that John McCain was “Panamanian.”

It is now generally understood in Panama that John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone. However, our guide said that those born in the zone (herself included) have dual citizenship, American and Panamanian.

The whole McCain ineligibility theory, I suppose, was never very well developed. It took two forms: the fake birth certificate that showed him born in Panama outside the Canal Zone, and the claim that the Canal Zone lacked the kind of jurisdiction that would have made McCain a natural born citizen. They never delved into whether McCain was also a citizen of Panama by virtue of his birth in Panama (in particular in the Canal Zone).

I daresay that if John McCain had been elected that we would not see the same kind of dual-citizen argument raised against him that we see against Barack Obama.

I found this article from the Washington Post that gives further details on McCain’s birth in the Canal Zone.

Further research into this issue reveals that in order for McCain to have acquired Panamanian citizenship, he would have had to register his consular birth certificate from the Department of State with the Panamanian birth registry.

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81 Responses to John McCain the “Panamanian Candidate”

  1. avatar
    brygenon January 12, 2011 at 9:00 pm  (Quote) #

    From the article:

    The whole McCain ineligibility theory, I suppose, was never very well developed.

    The McCain ineligibility argument was well-developed in exactly one place: Gabriel J. “Jack” Chin, professor at the University of Arizona James E. Rogers College of Law, wrote a paper published in the Michigan Law Review arguing that the law in place at the time of McCain’s birth did not grant him U.S. citizenship.

    “Although he is now a U.S. citizen, the law in effect in 1936 did not grant him citizenship at birth. Because he was not born a citizen, he is not eligible to the office of president.”
    http://www.michiganlawreview.org/articles/why-senator-john-mccain-cannot-be-president-eleven-months-and-a-hundred-yards-short-of-citizenship

    Other scholars rebutted Chin’s arguments, and the argument actually got into Court. Markham Robinson petitioned the United States District Court for the Northern District of California for a preliminary injunction to remove John McCain from the ballot, citing Chin’s paper. To rule on the motion, the Court assessed the likelihood of Robinson winning on the merits.

    The Court wrote:

    At the time of Senator McCain’s birth, the pertinent citizenship provision prescribed that “[a]ny child hereafter born out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such child is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.” Act of May 24, 1934, Pub. L. No. 73-250, 48 Stat. 797. The Supreme Court has interpreted the phrase “out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States” in this statute to be the converse of the phrase “in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,” in the Fourteenth Amendment, and therefore to encompass all those not granted citizenship directly by the Fourteenth Amendment. Under this view, Senator McCain was a citizen at birth. In 1937, to remove any doubt as to persons in Senator McCain’s circumstances in the Canal Zone, Congress enacted 8 U.S.C. 1403(a), which declared that persons in Senator McCain’s circumstances are citizens by virtue of their birth, thereby retroactively rendering Senator McCain a natural born citizen, if he was not one already. This order finds it highly probable, for the purposes of this motion for provisional relief, that Senator McCain is a natural born citizen.

    http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/candce/3:2008cv03836/206145/39/

    The Congressional Research Service cited the above in their paper on birthers, and added:

    The court thus implicitly adopted a meaning of the term “natural born Citizen” in the presidential eligibility clause which would include not only the narrow”common law” (based on apparent British common law) and the later United States constitutional designation for 14th Amendment purposes, that is, one born “in” the United States (jus soli), but also the statutory designation by Congress of one entitled to U.S. citizenship “at birth” or “by birth” transmitted from one’s parent or parents (jus sanguinis).”

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/11/congressional-research-service-punctures-birther-balloon/

    Unfortunately, rational analysis is lost on birthers. They’d rather concluded that there was a giant conspiracy to run two ineligible candidates, involving both political parties, Congress, the Judiciary, the media, the legal community, and we who like Dr. C’s site.

  2. avatar
    US Citizen January 13, 2011 at 2:44 am  (Quote) #

    During the elections, the basic understanding was that Obama was born in Hawaii (native/natural born) and McCain was born in Panama, yet eligible for reasons we’re all familiar with by now.

    But having said that, I can bet you that many of the same people who voted for McCain are now the same ones saying Obama isn’t eligible while using the same arguments that applied to McCain even then.
    Yet they voted for McCain anyway.

    That would suggest either party dedication or racism.
    But since party dedication is expected and we’ve never previously experienced the anger we see now against Obama- birthers never existed before Obama, yet their questions have been valid for hundreds of years – one is only left with race as the qualifier.

    The left, despite Panamanian-John’s even more questionable citizenship status than Obama’s, would have never created the body of nutjobs we now know as Birthers.
    There would be no left-wing version of Orly Taitz or Philip Berg, in my opinion.

  3. avatar
    misha January 13, 2011 at 3:13 am  (Quote) #

    US Citizen: There would be no left-wing version of Orly Taitz or Philip Berg, in my opinion.

    You are correct.

  4. avatar
    Keith January 13, 2011 at 4:20 am  (Quote) #

    US Citizen: That would suggest either party dedication or racism.

    I suggest simple hypocrisy.

  5. avatar
    misha January 13, 2011 at 7:37 am  (Quote) #

    Keith: I suggest simple hypocrisy.

    No white man ever had to show his birth certificate.

  6. avatar
    Scientist January 13, 2011 at 7:55 am  (Quote) #

    Reading this piece after watching the President’s inspiring speech last night, I can’t help but be struck by the utter irrelevancy of these eligibility arguments, whether they pertain to McCaIn, Obama or anyone else. John McCain is a decorated hero who served his country honorably. Barack Obama is an inspirational person, of the sort who comes along once in a generation, if that often. The idea that they should be denied the chance to run for any office based on which piece of dirt they were born on on who their sperm donor was is simply preposterous.

    A Constitution should enshrine the fundamental values of the larger society. If it becomes nothing but an excuse for pettifogging pseudo-lawyers to debate legal minutia, then it is not worthy of deep respect.

    Barack Obama last night reflected what is best about America. Anyone that refuses to see that needs glasses that even Misha can’t provide.

  7. avatar
    Black Lion January 13, 2011 at 9:37 am  (Quote) #

    More hilarity….The insanity will never stop because of the disturbed individuals out there that have fallen victim to Obama derangement syndrome….The latest example is below…

    January 11, 2011 – The White Hat Report #8 – The end of Obama’s Presidency
    OBAMA’S PRESIDENCY TERMINATED?

    From the moment Barrack Hussein Obama announced he was a candidate for the office of the President, his credentials have been under constant and considerable scrutiny by the finest Constitutional legal minds in our Country.

    As President, in each of the legal challenges presented to the Supreme Court, the legal question presented is not what the Honorable Court preferred to hear or the case of the Plaintiff was not proper and deemed not to have “standing” or “merit”. As always, the Court was positioning to hear the correct positions and arguments, so the Court could opine and rest the matter forever. The longer the proper legal challenges took to develop, the more difficult it would be to unwrap all of the damage that Obama, and his special interest groups, would bestow on the American people and the international community (i.e. Obama’s totally ignorant comment from the White House podium declaring the French are America’s closest ally. This ignorant statement insults Great Britain and the rest of our most important allies and relationships).

    The continual thread of the legal arguments is relative to Obama’s required constitutional credentials. Specifically, if he meets the eligibility requirements to be the President of the United States of America as defined in the Constitution. Apparently, Obama’s political tricksters, the special interests groups, the Chicago and the D.C. Beltway groups, which tilt their heads to the Obama faction, thought they could hijack America and out fox all of the Americans that hold the Constitution close to their heart. The Supreme Court heard each case brought before it, rendered an opinion and moved on to the next case. All of the previous cases have been denied for lack of ‘Standing’ or being ‘Frivolous’.

    As we stated in our last report, about 18 months ago at a college public speaking engagement, Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts was confronted by Dr. Orly Taitz with a suitcase of 350,000 confirmed signatures from World Net Daily and other sources. Dr. Taitz asked the Supreme Court to hear the complaints about Obama’s required credentials including his status as a natural born citizen of the United States of America since he was not properly vetted for the Presidency due to the wrangling of Obama’s special interest friends. Chief Justice Roberts promised Dr. Taitz publicly he would review the information. It appears that Roberts kept his promise as the matter was heard before the Supreme Court Justices on Friday, January 7th, 2011.

    The outcome of this single case has been in the specter of legal scholars for many months as the target issue lies within the confines of the Article Two, Section One of the Constitution of the United States of America, as quoted below:

    “Qualifications. The President must be a ‘natural born citizen’ of the United States,
    at least 35 years old … “

    If we break this down to its simplest common denominator and confine the argument to the true meaning of the Founding Fathers, Obama’s mother, upon the conception Barrack Hussein Obama, was married to a verified Kenyan citizen, meaning he does not have the blood of two (2) verifiable citizens of the United States of America. Not only do we have the records but so do all of the National Security agencies charged with protecting American interests by the letter of the law. As of this date, the issue of Obama’s citizenship status has become a National Security matter due to the wrangling of a group of people attempting to keep their candidate in office at all costs. For the record, and to this date, the American public and the Supreme Court have yet to receive the answers required to this question and Obama has yet to provide his long-form birth certificate and answer other Interrogatories.

    In the Supreme Court, the test for Obama, his cronies and this Administration, is for Obama to prove that he is a Natural born Citizen. Obama can’t do that as he has a Certified Birth Certificate in Kenya and ‘Certificate of Live Birth’ from the State of Hawaii. Herein lays the quandary for Obama, his cronies and the Court. Obama does not have the ability to prove and cannot provide a certified document providing for a true birth certificate for any of the American states. The only record of his birth is in Kenya.

    From extremely high and very credible sources within the Judicial system, it has been reported that Obama and his legal team lost their arguments to have this case dismissed. The Court heard the applicable arguments from each side and held, in short form; the Obama did not meet the residency requirements as set forth in the Constitutional of the United States of America. A preliminary vote in favor of the Plaintiff was taken, with Associate Justice Elena Kagan not voting due to her previous political relationship and involvement with Obama’s birth certification issues.

    The Supreme Court is holding on to the decision and will not publish its decision for the sake of the American political process. What does this mean and why would they choose this path?

    Notwithstanding the difficulty before the Judicial system as to what to do with an unlawfully sitting President, the real problem comes after the fact. This President has been sitting in the office illegally for two (2) years while propagating conjecture about American life and liberty, pushing his agenda, signing bills into law, issuing Executive Orders and trying to act as a real President. It is for this reason that all of the American Security agencies consider this single item a National Security matter with the single question: How do you control an out of control person acting as President?

    Although the Court has not recorded or published their finding, there is already disinformation being propagated that the Court ruled in favor of Obama. This is not true.

    SCENARIOS FOR POSSIBLE SUCCESSORS

    With the Court opinion in hand and everyone attempting to make sense of the underlying issues to be addressed, our analysis, based on what we have reported previously, is that any person in a position for an executive seat is a named party in criminal allegations of bank fraud, theft, unauthorized usage of government assets, etc. Review previous White Hat reports. The proof of these allegations exists. Hence, we know the following:

    1. The Supreme Court is holding on to its decision and not publishing due to the damage it would do.

    2. It has been opined that Obama in the near future will resign from the Office of The Presidency. The political machine is now determining how to spin his resignation so the American people can grasp something simpler than he never had the credentials to serve as President. The reason will not be his birth certificate issue.

    3. The Supreme Court will publish their findings after Obama’s resignation is detailed to the American people. Once Obama resigns the Supreme Court can simply dismiss the case and avoid any embarrassment of the parties.

    4. One possible scenario would be for Biden to step down first, due to his well publicized participation with George Bush Senior, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, and Mitt Romney in the theft of Falcone’s funds or due to the political spin of his alleged brain cancer… whichever works best. Obama will appoint Hillary Clinton as Vice President. Obama steps down and Hillary becomes President. The Clinton machine has always wanted Hillary as President. If this happens, the information on the funds she has stolen will become exposed. The funds that Hillary took are substantially greater than the amount Biden took. Remember that Hillary bribed Biden per Bush Senior’s request.

    5. Obama could resign first and allow Biden to become President. Biden would then appoint a new Vice President, but this appointment would have to be approved by both Congresses. This option seems less likely, but is certainly possible since the White House has been trying to enhance Biden’s image. The criminal allegations against Joseph Biden are too great to allow him to become President.

    It is our sincere desire for all individuals to understand the monumental issues stated above and, in concert, with all of the information contained in our previous reports. We have stated that the Executive branch of the government has failed us. Will Congress, fail us, too? Or will they do their duty, keep their responsibility to their constituents and honor their oath to the Constitution and protect America from enemies, both foreign and DOMESTIC?

    We have heard from Americans and people from all walks of life including people from other countries who are wondering what has happened to the United States of America. Our purpose has been to inform the public and expose the corruption that threatens our freedoms, both now and in the future. Therefore, we implore you to contact your Senators and Representatives. Let them hear your voice and let your voice hold weight. Tell them your opinion. Hold your elected officials accountable for every act they perform on your behalf!!

    View the Obama Birth Certificate here: http://tdarkcabal.blogspot.com/p/obama-birth-certificate-file.html

    NOTE: WE URGE ALL TO HOLD YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS ACCOUNTABLE AND RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERY ACTION THEY TAKE!

    http://tdarkcabal.blogspot.com/2011/01/january-11-2011-white-hat-report-8-end.html

  8. avatar
    ellid January 13, 2011 at 9:40 am  (Quote) #

    Scientist: Reading this piece after watching the President’s inspiring speech last night, I can’t help but be struck by the utter irrelevancy of these eligibility arguments, whether they pertain to McCaIn, Obama or anyone else.John McCain is a decorated hero who served his country honorably.Barack Obama is an inspirational person, of the sort who comes along once in a generation, if that often.The idea that they should be denied the chance to run for any office based on which piece of dirt they were born on on who their sperm donor was is simply preposterous.A Constitution should enshrine the fundamental values of the larger society.If it becomes nothing but an excuse for pettifogging pseudo-lawyers to debate legal minutia, then it is not worthy of deep respect.Barack Obama last night reflected what is best about America.Anyone that refuses to see that needs glasses that even Misha can’t provide.

    Word.

  9. avatar
    Black Lion January 13, 2011 at 12:07 pm  (Quote) #

    Scientist and ellid, I agree also. Unfortunately for us some see such an inspiring speech and automatically turn it into something negative….

    From today’s Lame Cherry insane asylum….

    How do you cover up an intelligence operation?

    Answer: You hold a press conference misdirecting attention by creating chaos.

    Here is something for the sluthful Sean Hannity to put in his pipe and smoke it for a few puffs as this blog has been leading the way by God’s Grace again and just waiting for the rest to catch up my days old trail.

    Answer me this please………….

    The following questions please……….(hint the answers are in the affirmative)

    Did Sheriff Clarence Dupnik know that Jared Loughner was an immense threat to the community?

    When that Game and Fish warden stopped Loughner for a traffic violation, would not a list of police calls involving the intellectual be on that little screen they have running background check?

    Next, knowing thee immense criminal activity, including Loughner in Pima County, which includes the probability you will be raped, robbed or beaten there in increased odds compared to any other place in America………why did not Dupnik provide any police protection for Gabrielle Gifford at a public event?

    Was Dupnik politically connected to those people shot?

    Is it not odd that a nobody Sheriff spouting off all of a sudden becomes an instant celebrity of the mass media in New York when he has no evidence?

    Those are just a few questions in Clarence Dupnik which point to if you are guilty of something. You run a counter operation making noise so no one focuses on the Lee Harvey Oswald crime.

    Dupnik refuses to release information which should be public about Jared Loughner, including information on who the victims are.

    The mystery abounds in Dupnik in his entire ranting about this situation is creating an aura for mistrial as he has tainted the entire jury pool. No jury can now be seated who has not heard of this case, who is not prejudiced either for Loughner or against. No change of venue will be possible.
    How when Dupnik uses a Muslim slur as only reported here, comparing crime in Arizona to Mecca, can a lawless mob be trusted to carry out justice.

    Do you think Obama has the number of your Sheriff? How about after the BP sabotage, the flooding in the midwest, storms, coal mining disasters, earthquakes in Haiti or Chile did Obama phone one local Sheriff thanking them for all they did.
    Yet Obama has this Sheriff’s number who already was stating he would follow Obama policy in not enforcing Arizona law in apprehending border busters.

    A pattern such as this is a case for negligent homicide by Clarence Dupnik, in he was either currying favor with the Obama regime, or something more advanced was taking place in an Oswald type event, as with all the police contact with Loughner, the red flares would have went off in any law enforcement stopping him for their own protection, yet somehow in the Dupnik electronic background check, this guy was scrubbed.

    So Dupnik deliberately leaves an intellectual loose in his community who scares the locals.

    Just who in Tucson was Dupnik leaving this Loughner loose for?

    As this blog revealed, there is no stretch in this Arizona event was planned for in any of a number of areas to be utilized, and propagandized by the puppy press working for Obama, including Democrats in Congress with bills they had just waiting.
    The federal police were shown in Hutatree to have been sent on that set up for the reason of cracking down on the Tea Party emerging. History shows Janet Reno and the Clintons creating such operations at Waco, OKC and Ruby Ridge to intimidate the populace.
    Clinton deliberately attacked Rush Limbagh in this in blaming him. In this pre planned event, we see Obama was allowing others like Dupnik to do the smearing, while Obama would appear at a political orgy complete with his staff handing out Obama t shirts……………

    The questions in this are many, but was Dupnik the judas goat sacrificing Gabrielle Giffords to the greater Obama good in using this to stop Congress repealing Obamacrypt and derailing Sarah Palin and the Tea Party in finishing what Karl Rove started?

    The only reason for Dupnik to start screaming at a press conference which would endanger the case against Loughner is because he is covering up a much more fiendish plot.

    In small scale, Dupnik was covering up his incompetence. The problem is Obama and his media swooped into this too efficiently. There were too many staged happenings over days to unwind this to an already krystal nacht conclusion.
    That therefore points to a coordination between locals and federals, in like manner to what happened in Dallas November 1963.

    Barack Obama overplayed his hand in this with this political orgy as he just can not mix a campaign with any event.
    Now considering the BP sabotage, the Hutatree staged event, the Frank and Owens slander of the Tea Party with Pelosi parading Owens around in a civil rights event………..just how coincidental did Arizona just happen considering the Obama stage act which followed?

    What I desire you to really consider is this point:

    The federal police let slip in Hutatree that they are tracking numbers of Americans. How many Congress people and judges in like manner were being exposed exactly as Gabrielle Giffords in other Democratic enclaves as lambs to the slaughter?

    To not beat about the bush, if they did this in Arizona, how many other places were like events being staged for the same violent conclusion?

    You heard Democrats inflaming this up ‘for the next event’ in their own descriptions, as that is what they are hoping.

    So answer this in does it not look like this regime and their operatives set up Gabrielle Giffords as a lamb for the slaughter.

    To repeat the next question, how many other politicians were exposed by sympathizers like Clarence Dupnik for the intellectual treatment?

    This was a set up in a broad pattern. A grand jury would indict on less evidence than this and put Barack Hussein Obama’s name on the list of unindicted co conspirators.

    Jared Loughner pulled the trigger. Who kept him loose in the community? Who was it that started a diversion and misdirection but Dupnik and the host of Obama operatives.

    How do you cover up an intelligence operation? You do exactly what Dupnik and Obama did.

    http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2011/01/how-do-you-cover-up-intelligence.html

  10. avatar
    Wild Bill H January 13, 2011 at 1:33 pm  (Quote) #

    You saw an inspiring speech, but I didn’t. I didn’t necessarily see something ‘negative’ as you put it, but ‘inspiring’ wouldn’t be the word I would use.

    Obama is as guilty as the Repubs for his spewing of hate speech, so is he repudiating himself? I don’t think so….at least he didn’t convince me of the fact that he is as guilty as the other guy; he didn’t convince me that he needs to change his tone and rhetoric as well as the other pundits and media. But if he convinced you, then he was successful and possibly even ‘inspiring’.

    He very well may have said what is best about America, but I have to question not only his motives but his sincerity as well. He is not in the habit of thinking or speaking highly of the great Nation that he leads. Why now? Why not another apology to the world for our behavior – albeit at the hands of a single person? Obama likes to lump our actions together as a whole and then encompass the whole with an apology to the world – perhaps in an attempt to make himself feel better? About what is the question, since I personally feel no need to apologize for anything on behalf of actions and deeds by America. I’m not saying we get it right 100% of the time, but by and large, we have NOTHING to apologize for.

    But as US Citizen insists…it must just be my ‘racism’ that influences my thoughts. (although he/she has no clue what my race is, it just MUST be racism – at least 50% racism since I’m guessing he/she thinks all birthers are white)

    There would have most definitely have been a left-wing version of Orly Taitz, just look at the mess the left created over the Bush/Gore election for proof positive. And last I checked, Philip Berg IS the left-wing version in the flesh, he’s just batting for the wrong team. LOL

  11. avatar
    Wild Bill H January 13, 2011 at 1:41 pm  (Quote) #

    Oh, and yes, I did vote for McCain….not because I wanted him for President. I thought he was make a TERRIBLE president. At the time, I had no clue about either of their eligibility issues. Although, I’m coming to the conclusion now that only 1 of the candidates had an eligibility issue – and that was McCain. I think Obama is most definitely a NBC. But I digress, I voted for McCain because I didn’t want Obama as President. He has been exactly the kind of President I was voting against and exactly the kind of President he promised to be. Most people didn’t listen to what he was really saying, they were only paying attention to his slogans and his smile.

    If I had it to over again, I wouldn’t change my vote, but….

    I know a lot of people out there that say they would! :))))
    (i.e. my hairdresser, my dry cleaner, my housekeeper, and my banker to name just a few)

  12. avatar
    Scientist January 13, 2011 at 1:43 pm  (Quote) #

    Wild Bill H: You saw an inspiring speech, but I didn’t

    Too bad. I guess you were watching “Live to Dance” instead. How was it?

  13. avatar
    charo January 13, 2011 at 1:55 pm  (Quote) #

    Another viewpoint of the speech:

    Some observations about the “memorial” service in Tucson
    Posted on 13 January 2011 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

    I watched some of the “memorial service” in Tucson last night.

    Here are some observations.

    First, we feel pain and concern for the the people affected. What happened in Tucson was gruesome, maddening, sad, demoralizing, disastrous, and revolting. It was, however, not a tragedy. “Tragedy” is over-used and usually misapplied. In know that in this age of lowered expectations and falling educational standards words in common parlance don’t mean what they used to, but we need reminders from time to time that words are important. Tragedy concerns the results of a person’s character and decisions. The people who suffered in this attack are victims of a crime committed by someone who is not in his right mind. The main stream media, with its penchant for amping-up stories for the sake of viewership, has dumbed-down our discourse. The incessant application of the label “tragedy” makes us all a little stupider.

    Something about the atmosphere. It wasn’t much of a “memorial” service in my opinion. Perhaps this was because there were so many university students. The intellectual and cultural level of young people in the USA has fallen to the point that they seem not to be able to recognize the moment. They know little of decorum. I will concede that there were some moments for applause, but the interrupting and hooting was shameful. At the same time, did it occur to the organizers that the distribution of t-shirts might set the wrong tone from the onset? As the “service” went on, I had to remind myself of why someone was reading Scripture even as some dimwits were hollering their no-doubt important opinions.

    Next, the president’s speech was a good speech. I don’t think it was great. I am not impressed with Pres. Obama as a speaker. He is not a great orator, though I admit he speaks better than 80% of politicians these days. That’s a pretty low bar, I’m afraid. Standing ovations are common now as well, even for mediocre performances. Our standards are falling. Moreover, when it comes to the content of his speeches, I am inclined to doubt every word he utters, even (pace Mary McCarthy) “and” and “the”.

    Last night, however, President Obama was faced with a real problem as a speaker. It struck me that he had prepared for what reasonable people expected: a memorial service. Instead, he was required to wrest control of the moment from the uluating rubes in the student body. Once he penetrated through their thick skulls, Pres. Obama was effective. That is, he was able to give the speech he wanted to give. I give him high marks for that even though he was driven a couple times back to his comfort zone of a campaign-style speech. Hard to avoid it, given the house.

    Perhaps having to give such a speech in front of that audience was emblematic of the larger issue he tried to address. The president first had to reach beyond the indecorous numskulls in the auditorium in order to underscore one of the major points he wanted to make: we need a more reasoned public discourse. This is not to say that we can’t have tough discourse, or that we have to leave many of the tools of debate untouched in the toolbox.

    Over the last few days we have read and heard insinuations and outright accusations from the extreme left that conservative figures in talk radio or politics were somehow responsible for the shootings in Tucson. Decent people have recoiled from that and have responded that we need greater civility. Is civility what we need? Is that another misapplication of a word? After all words don’t seem to mean what they used to. When people say “what a tragedy”, we understand that they mean that what happened was awful and it has made them sad. Not everyone has to know Greek roots of “tragedy” to be able to have a conversation over their Mystic Monk Coffee.

    In asking for more “civility” I wonder if we aren’t longing for discourse in which people first think about what they want to say and then don’t purposely lie, or, if they have nothing intelligent to say, then they should just keep their mouths shut.

  14. avatar
    Black Lion January 13, 2011 at 2:20 pm  (Quote) #

    charo: Another viewpoint of the speech:Some observations about the “memorial” service in TucsonPosted on 13 January 2011 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf.

    Really? I guess everyone sees something different….Below is the opinion of an extreme right wing commenter and frequent critic of the President who thought the President delivered a fine speech and thought his oratory was outstanding….

    “Despite the pressure from some on the left to capitalize on the Tucson killings for political gain, and amid ocassional inappropriate cheering from the audience, President Obama acutely understood our collective need to heal when he addressed the nation on Wednesday night.

    He also knew that anything else would have been downright petty and cynical. So, rather than search for political victims to chastise, he focused his speech on the victims of Saturday’s rampage, eulogizing them with the kind of soaring oratory he first became famous for. Obama put politics aside and, like George W. Bush after 9/11 and Bill Clinton after Oklahoma City, he sought to revive our “instincts for empathy.”

    “At a time when our discourse has become so sharply polarized, it’s important that are talking to each other in a way that heals, not in a way that wounds,” he reasoned.

    Wednesday night, he was our comforter-in-chief. Finally, and perhaps only momentarily, he allowed us to grieve as one nation, undivided.”

    http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2011/01/13/2011-01-13_obamas_arizona_address_comforterinchief_rightly_talks_of_healing_unlike_other_po.html

  15. avatar
    Black Lion January 13, 2011 at 2:28 pm  (Quote) #

    Obama and Palin, a Tale of Two Speeches
    By MICHAEL SHEAR
    David Becker/Getty Images
    President Obama spoke Wednesday night at an event at the McKale Memorial Center honoring the shooting victims in Tucson.

    Wednesday was bookended by two remarkable — and remarkably different — political performances that demonstrated the vast expanse of America’s political landscape.

    The day began at 5 a.m. when Sarah Palin posted a seven-and-a-half minute video statement that captured with precision the bubbling anger and resentment that is an undercurrent of the national conversation about our public discourse.

    Sarah Palin issued a forceful denunciation of her critics in a video statement posted to her Facebook page.It ended with President Obama, whose plea for civility, love and compassion — for us to all be not just better citizens but better people — exposed for the first time the emotions of a leader who has spent two years staying cool and controlled for a nation beset by difficult times.

    The tone of the two speeches could not have been more different. The venues were a world apart — the smallness of a rectangular video on a computer screen and the vastness of an echo-filled basketball arena.

    And they both served as a reminder of the political clash to come when the 2012 presidential campaign gets underway in earnest next year.

    Whether Ms. Palin chooses to challenge Mr. Obama or not, her video reflected the urgent feelings of her supporters. And Mr. Obama’s speech, delivered amid sorrow, offered a fresh glimpse of the candidate who used hope as an inspirational tool.

    Ms. Palin’s decision to post the video on the Internet Wednesday morning all but invited comparisons to the president’s previously announced appearance at the memorial service for those slain in Arizona.

    And her choice of words — most notably the accusation that her critics were guilty of “blood libel” for the things they have said about her — made it impossible to ignore the video as merely another statement from a politician.

    “We will not be stopped from celebrating the greatness of our country and our foundational freedoms by those who mock its greatness by being intolerant of differing opinion and seeking to muzzle dissent with shrill cries of imagined insults,” she said.

    Like Mr. Obama, Ms. Palin offered heartfelt sympathies for those who were injured or killed in Tucson. Her “heart broke,” she said, just as Mr. Obama later noted that “our hearts are broken.”

    “No words can fill the hole left by the death of an innocent, but we do mourn for the victims’ families as we express our sympathy,” Ms. Palin said, looking directly into the camera.

    But the purpose of Ms. Palin’s video was clearly to send a different, more sharp-edged message. Just 1 minute 32 seconds into her talk, Ms. Palin shifted gears, saying she had become puzzled and saddened by the accusations leveled against her and others by “journalists and pundits.”

    Disciplined and sophisticated in its production, the video ended with Ms. Palin’s resolve. “We need strength to not let the random acts of a criminal turn us against ourselves, or weaken our solid foundation, or provide a pretext to stifle debate,” she said. “We are better than the mindless finger-pointing we endured in the wake of the tragedy.”

    That message, in truth, was not so different from the one that Mr. Obama delivered 15 hours later in front of more than 14,000 people at the McKale Memorial Center.

    “They believed, and I believe, we can be better,” the president said, referring to the victims of Saturday’s shooting. And, like Ms. Palin, he rejected as far too simplistic the idea that political speech, however harsh, was directly responsible for the tragedy.

    “If, as has been discussed in recent days, their deaths help usher in more civility in our public discourse, let’s remember that it is not because a simple lack of civility caused this tragedy — it did not — but rather because only a more civil and honest public discourse can help us face up to the challenges of our nation, in a way that would make them proud,” he said.

    But what could not have been more different was the tone. Where Ms. Palin was direct and forceful, Mr. Obama was soft and restrained. Where Ms. Palin was accusatory, Mr. Obama appeared to go out of his way to avoid pointing fingers or assigning blame. Where she stressed the importance of fighting for our different beliefs, he emphasized our need for unity, referring to the “American family — 300 million strong.”

    For the president, it was at least the fourth time he has presided as the country’s mourner-in-chief. He delivered the eulogies at Senator Edward M. Kennedy’s funeral and at the memorial for miners who died in West Virginia. And he spoke to the nation after the shootings at an Army base in Texas.

    But this time, he appeared more affected by the trauma of the deaths. And none more so than when he was talking about the death of Christina Green, a 9-year-old girl not much older than Mr. Obama’s younger daughter.

    “I want us to live up to her expectations,” he said, his voice rising. “I want our democracy to be as good as Christina imagined it. I want America to be as good as she imagined it. All of us — we should do everything we can to make sure this country lives up to our children’s expectations.”

    Eyes glistening, the president was forced to take a long pause to compose himself.

    He talked about the “process of aligning our actions with our values” and that what really matters in life “is how well we have loved and what small part we have played in making the lives of others better.”

    Mr. Obama’s advisers had suggested earlier in the day that the president might avoid all mention of the swirling controversy — made even more intense by Ms. Palin’s video — over the nation’s heated rhetoric.

    But he did not, in the end, duck the issue.

    Instead, Mr. Obama echoed the calls for greater civility and fresh reflection about the nature of public discourse. But he did so while urging all sides to abandon what he called “the usual plane of politics and point scoring and pettiness that drifts away in the next news cycle.”

    He is likely to be disappointed. Even as he spoke, Twitter messages and e-mails flew across the Internet, with one side assailing the other. And Ms. Palin will likely find little hope in the barrage of criticism that greeted her video.

    Unless — or until — Ms. Palin runs for president and wins the Republican nomination, there are not likely to be many single days in which the two very different politicians are on display in such dramatic ways.

    Wednesday was one.

    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/13/obama-and-palin-a-tale-of-two-speeches/

  16. avatar
    The Magic M January 13, 2011 at 2:57 pm  (Quote) #

    > with a suitcase of 350,000 confirmed signatures from World Net Daily and other sources

    *lol* That must be the same suitcase the lost “millions of lines of stolen code in Linux” from SCO vs. IBM are to be found in. And Marcellus Wallace’s soul.

    > From extremely high and very credible sources within the Judicial system, it has been reported that Obama and his legal team lost their arguments to have this case dismissed. The Court heard the applicable arguments from each side and held, in short form; the Obama did not meet the residency requirements as set forth in the Constitutional of the United States of America.

    From extremely high and very credible sources within God’s personal assistants, it has been reported that all birthers are made of marshmellows and look like Winnie Pooh. Now, there’s a fact to spread in a gazillion blogs worldwide. It’s very credible because I say so, so it is true-truth[tm](Pat.Pend.).

  17. avatar
    charo January 13, 2011 at 2:58 pm  (Quote) #

    Black Lion: “At a time when our discourse has become so sharply polarized, it’s important that are talking to each other in a way that heals, not in a way that wounds,” he reasoned.

    And his words have had such an effect on the blogs…

  18. avatar
    US Citizen January 13, 2011 at 3:06 pm  (Quote) #

    Wild Bill H:He is not in the habit of thinking or speaking highly of the great Nation that he leads.

    If you actually believe this, I doubt you’ve watched very many Obama speeches.
    I cannot recall a single speech in which he spoke lowly of the US.
    Of course, there are many on the right who took what Mrs. Obama said once, skewed it out of its original meaning and then applied it to Obama.
    But I’d challenge you to find and post a link to *any* video in which Obama speaks disrespectfully of the United States.
    Therefore, coining it as a “habit” is a considerable exaggeration.

  19. avatar
    obsolete January 13, 2011 at 3:28 pm  (Quote) #

    Wild Bill H: Obama is as guilty as the Repubs for his spewing of hate speech

    Of course, I’m sure Wild Bill can provide legitimate links to Obama’s hate speech to back up his seditious claims…

  20. avatar
    Scientist January 13, 2011 at 3:51 pm  (Quote) #

    charo, A few responses to your post:

    1. This is a pet peeve of mine, but I really don’t like the long cuttiing and pasting of the opinions of others (and yes, Black Lion does that as well). I’d really rather hear what YOU think, than what Fr Zuhlsdorf (whomever he might be) thinks, since I can have an exchange of views with you, but not with him. I post links to facts where those are in dispute, but for opinion, you get mine and mine alone.

    2. Memorials don’t have to be dreary, solemn events. There are many traditions of how to mark someone’s passing which are joyful (New Orleans jazz funerals, for example). When I go, I hope my friends and family remember my life with jokes, funny stories and laughter.

    3. The President is the best speaker I have heard in recent years, not just in the US, but in any English-speaking country. To say that he isn’t that good begs the question, “Who is, or was?” Since Fr Zuhlsdorf didn’t say and isn’t here to ask, I will ask you.

    4. The speech focused, appropriately, on the dead and wounded-I would estimate 70% of the time was spent on them. It also rightly recognized the heroes who saved lives, or who tried to. But we need to keep in mind that this was not an event solely about the victims. They will each have private funerals and memorials among those that knew them. This event had a larger purpose-it was about healing the local community and the country. This was where the President’s words truly shone. He honored the dead and used their lives and theirs deaths to upllift us and appeal to what Lincoln called, “The better angels of our nature”

  21. avatar
    Black Lion January 13, 2011 at 4:12 pm  (Quote) #

    The Magic M: > with a suitcase of 350,000 confirmed signatures from World Net Daily and other sources*lol* That must be the same suitcase the lost “millions of lines of stolen code in Linux” from SCO vs. IBM are to be found in. And Marcellus Wallace’s soul.> From extremely high and very credible sources within the Judicial system, it has been reported that Obama and his legal team lost their arguments to have this case dismissed. The Court heard the applicable arguments from each side and held, in short form; the Obama did not meet the residency requirements as set forth in the Constitutional of the United States of America.From extremely high and very credible sources within God’s personal assistants, it has been reported that all birthers are made of marshmellows and look like Winnie Pooh. Now, there’s a fact to spread in a gazillion blogs worldwide. It’s very credible because I say so, so it is true-truth[tm](Pat.Pend.).

    M, I know. Anyone that would believe any of that fiction is an idiot…However at the Dr Kate cesspool she thought it was believable so that tells us all we need to know about her and her followers….

  22. avatar
    ellid January 13, 2011 at 4:14 pm  (Quote) #

    Scientist: charo, A few responses to your post:1. This is a pet peeve of mine, but I really don’t like the long cuttiing and pasting of the opinions of others (and yes, Black Lion does that as well).I’d really rather hear what YOU think, than what Fr Zuhlsdorf (whomever he might be) thinks, since I can have an exchange of views with you, but not with him.I post links to facts where those are in dispute, but for opinion, you get mine and mine alone.2. Memorials don’t have to be dreary, solemn events.There are many traditions of how to mark someone’s passing which are joyful (New Orleans jazz funerals, for example).When I go, I hope my friends and family remember my life with jokes, funny stories and laughter.
    3. The President is the best speaker I have heard in recent years, not just in the US, but in any English-speaking country.To say that he isn’t that good begs the question, “Who is, or was?”Since Fr Zuhlsdorf didn’t sayand isn’t here to ask, I will ask you.4.The speech focused, appropriately, on the dead and wounded-I would estimate 70% of the time was spent on them.It also rightly recognized the heroes who saved lives, or who tried to.But we need to keep in mind that this was not an event solely about the victims.They will each have private funerals and memorials among those that knew them.This event had a larger purpose-it was about healing the local community and the country.This was where the President’s words truly shone.He honored the dead and used their lives and theirs deaths to upllift us and appeal to what Lincoln called, “The better angels of our nature”

    The most heartfelt memorial service I ever went to was last month, when a dear friend died of liver cancer. His wife conducted it, and she explicitly told us at the beginning that there would be no tears and no mourning – that this was a celebration of Maurice’s life and she wanted us to laugh and be thankful for the gift of his presence.

    And we did. It sounded more like a comedy club than a funeral as person after person stood to tell story after story. The only tears were those of laughter. Maybe this Fr. Zuhlsdorf (an ultra-conservative Catholic affiliated with The Wanderer) wouldn’t have approved, but such an outpouring of love and joy comes far closer to the transcendent and the holy than he will ever know.

    As for the President’s speech…pray tell me just what people were supposed to be when informed that Rep. Giffords had opened her eyes? Look solemn and nod?

  23. avatar
    Black Lion January 13, 2011 at 4:18 pm  (Quote) #

    Scientist: charo, A few responses to your post:1. This is a pet peeve of mine, but I really don’t like the long cuttiing and pasting of the opinions of others (and yes, Black Lion does that as well). I’d really rather hear what YOU think, than what Fr Zuhlsdorf (whomever he might be) thinks, since I can have an exchange of views with you, but not with him.

    Scientist, good point. In some cases I do try and give an opinion, but if you are ever curious regarding what I think on a subject that I have posted, feel free to ask. As far the speech I thought it was a great speech. He focused on the victims and their families and was about trying to heal, not divide our country. Of course the partisan hacks on the so called right will pan him for his speech, and anyone that hates the President will not like the speech, but I challenge them to find any part of the speech where he was somehow anti American or in any way not sympathetic to the victims or their families….

  24. avatar
    mikeyes January 13, 2011 at 5:15 pm  (Quote) #

    I agree with the concept that a memorial service should celebrate the life of the loved one.

    When I die, I want my father’s Irish wake (and my grandfather’s for that matter), full of life, love, music, and drink. (No dancing on the coffin, please.)

  25. avatar
    RJ January 13, 2011 at 6:15 pm  (Quote) #

    You people and allies on the far left were the first birthers. McCain’s natural born Citizenship questions, dual Citizenship status, and eligibility to be President under the constitution was challenged in February and March of 2009 by Professor Jonathan Turley and the New York Times. McCain was also sued over the matter at least once by a Mr. Hollander. There may have been another. Both McCain and Obama were not constitutionally eligible to be President and thus both candidates and political parties were complicit in the cover up and election fraud. A third party candidate, the Socialist Party, ran Mr. Calero who was not even a U.S. Citizen at all and only had a green card. The 2008 election presidential election was the most fraudulent in U.S. history with three constitutionally ineligible candidates on the ballot – Obama, McCain, and Calero.

    Meet Poppa Birther that father of the birther movement in the 2008 election cycle:
    http://birthers.org/misc/FOMB.html

    RJ

  26. avatar
    RJ January 13, 2011 at 6:16 pm  (Quote) #

    CORRECTION: February and March of 2008

    You people and allies on the far left were the first birthers. McCain’s natural born Citizenship questions, dual Citizenship status, and eligibility to be President under the constitution was challenged in February and March of 2008 by Professor Jonathan Turley and the New York Times. McCain was also sued over the matter at least once by a Mr. Hollander. There may have been another. Both McCain and Obama were not constitutionally eligible to be President and thus both candidates and political parties were complicit in the cover up and election fraud. A third party candidate, the Socialist Party, ran Mr. Calero who was not even a U.S. Citizen at all and only had a green card. The 2008 election presidential election was the most fraudulent in U.S. history with three constitutionally ineligible candidates on the ballot – Obama, McCain, and Calero.

    Meet Poppa Birther that father of the birther movement in the 2008 election cycle:
    http://birthers.org/misc/FOMB.html

    RJ

  27. avatar
    charo January 13, 2011 at 6:43 pm  (Quote) #

    Scientist: 1. This is a pet peeve of mine, but I really don’t like the long cuttiing and pasting of the opinions of others (and yes, Black Lion does that as well). I’d really rather hear what YOU think, than what Fr Zuhlsdorf (whomever he might be) thinks, since I can have an exchange of views with you, but not with him. I post links to facts where those are in dispute, but for opinion, you get mine and mine alone.

    It seemed like it was an accepted form of communication here, and I find it interesting that you didn’t have quite the nerve to bring up the matter with Black Lion prior to now, but point taken.

    Scientist: 2. Memorials don’t have to be dreary, solemn events. There are many traditions of how to mark someone’s passing which are joyful (New Orleans jazz funerals, for example). When I go, I hope my friends and family remember my life with jokes, funny stories and laughter.

    It is true they don;t have to be solemn events (I don;t agree with the term dreary). That would depend upon the sentiments of the family/victims. Adopting the view of Father Z, as he is known, I would agree that President Obama did not expect the reaction to be in the form of a rally. The t-shirts, IMO, were tacky.

    Scientist: 3. The President is the best speaker I have heard in recent years, not just in the US, but in any English-speaking country. To say that he isn’t that good begs the question, “Who is, or was?” Since Fr Zuhlsdorf didn’t say and isn’t here to ask, I will ask you.

    He did what was expected. I don’t swoon every time he speaks. I don’t swoon when anybody speaks. I didn’t follow politics until recently, but the clips I have seen of Reagan and JFK show them to be good speakers. Martin Luther King, Jr., as well. I would suspect that Father Z would refer back through the centuries to various homilies, writings for his preferences.

    Scientist: He honored the dead and used their lives and theirs deaths to upllift us and appeal to what Lincoln called, “The better angels of our nature”

    It was the right thing to do and say.

  28. avatar
    charo January 13, 2011 at 6:46 pm  (Quote) #

    ellid: Maybe this Fr. Zuhlsdorf (an ultra-conservative Catholic affiliated with The Wanderer) wouldn’t have approved, but such an outpouring of love and joy comes far closer to the transcendent and the holy than he will ever know.

    A link that may be of interest to all:

    http://wdtprs.com/blog/2011/01/trappists-make-and-donate-a-casket-for-the-little-girl-killed-in-tucson/

  29. avatar
    Scientist January 13, 2011 at 7:07 pm  (Quote) #

    charo: It is true they don;t have to be solemn events (I don;t agree with the term dreary). That would depend upon the sentiments of the family/victims. Adopting the view of Father Z, as he is known, I would agree that President Obama did not expect the reaction to be in the form of a rally. The t-shirts, IMO, were tacky

    I don’t know what the President expected. The event was in the basketball arena, and he is a fan and knows how sound carries in that setting. I thought the T shirts were fine I have done walks for ovarian cancer in honor of a friend who died from the disease and many people wear T-shirts in honor of a friend or relative who died of it. .

    charo: I didn’t follow politics until recently, but the clips I have seen of Reagan and JFK show them to be good speakers. Martin Luther King, Jr., as well. I would suspect that Father Z would refer back through the centuries to various homilies, writings for his preferences.

    Reagan and JFK were very good speakers. King was beyond compare. Sadly, they are all dead. I can’t think of a living speaker better than Obama. As for those from the era before recordings, we can’t know how they sounded. Some speeches read better than they sounnd and some sound better than they read.

  30. avatar
    Rickey January 13, 2011 at 8:10 pm  (Quote) #

    RJ: You people and allies on the far left were the first birthers…McCain was also sued over the matter at least once by a Mr. Hollander.

    Fred Hollander is an ally of the far left? According to this piece, Hollander is a registered Republican. “In the meantime, a second case, Hollander v. McCain, was filed in a New Hampshire federal district court. The plaintiff, Fred Hollander, is a registered Republican who alleged that he planned to vote in the 2008 election.”

    http://aipnews.com/talk/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1727&posts=2

    The first case was filed in California by Andrew Aames, a lawyer in Riverside, California. The case was Inland Empire Voters v. U.S.A., et al. Andrew Aames is a registered Republican. An ally of the far left? Apparently not.

    http://inkslwc.wordpress.com/category/andrew-aames/

    A third case was filed in California by Markham Robinson, of the American Independent Party – the party which nominated Alan Keyes. An ally of the far left? I think not.

    McCain’s natural born Citizenship questions, dual Citizenship status, and eligibility to be President under the constitution was challenged in February and March of 2008 by Professor Jonathan Turley and the New York Times.

    The New York Times never “challenged” McCain’s NBC status. The paper merely reported on 2/28/08 that the question had come up. The article quotes politicians and lawyers who said that they believed that McCain was eligible, and the articles does not cite anyone who believed otherwise.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/politics/28mccain.html?_r=4&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&ref=politics&pagewanted=print&adxnnlx=1294966983-RsuZYyvzgQDIMoxXhx7fgg

    As for Jonathan Turley, he didn’t “challenged” McCain’s eligibility, either. He merely pointed out that McCain’s candidacy raised issues which had not been resolved.

    http://jonathanturley.org/2008/02/28/does-john-mccain-have-an-alexander-hamilton-problem-a-constitutional-challenge-may-loom-over-mccains-eligibility-for-president/

    So your entire premise collapses like a house of cards.

  31. avatar
    Keith January 13, 2011 at 8:36 pm  (Quote) #

    The Magic M: *lol* That must be the same suitcase the lost “millions of lines of stolen code in Linux” from SCO vs. IBM are to be found in

    Whoa. That’s a blast from the past!

  32. avatar
    Keith January 13, 2011 at 9:27 pm  (Quote) #

    Scientist: 2. Memorials don’t have to be dreary, solemn events. There are many traditions of how to mark someone’s passing which are joyful (New Orleans jazz funerals, for example). When I go, I hope my friends and family remember my life with jokes, funny stories and laughter.

    I think there is a general backlash in some of the Roman Catholic hierarchy against ‘modern’ funerals. The Archbishop of Melbourne has banned ‘inappropriate’ music like Football Club songs and other ‘irreligious’ practices such as celebrations of the life of the deceased from Catholic funeral services.

    I sense that this is a general reaction of the conservatives within the Church to ongoing change in the Church. As the Church withers, there is an ideological struggle within about the cause of the withering. The conservatives see the loss of membership in the developed world as a result of the loss of authority while the progressives note the strength in the 3rd world as a result of following their flocks needs.

    For my own part, the most moving funeral I have ever attended was that of my father-in-law who was ushered out of the chapel to the voice of Louis Armstrong singing ‘Hey, There Goes Mack the Knife’! He was a wonderfully funny man, Satchmo was his favorite and he would have loved the choice. He was also an avid follower of the horse races and owned a few significant winners in his day. The death notice in the paper, written by his kids, read like a formguide, ‘Doug out of Leslie and Daisy, Sire to …’

    A funeral should be a celebration of the life of the deceased, not the death of the deceased. This is however a fault line between the Protestant and Catholic view. Catholic’s focus is on Christ on the Cross, his death and suffering, Protestants focus on Christ defeating the Cross, his resurrection. Once again, I have to disclaim any pretense to being a theologian, but there is insight to be gained from pondering the differences between the Catholic Cross with Jesus nailed to it, and the Protestant Cross with Jesus absent.

    Mourning the death of a loved one includes honoring and celebrating the contribution that person made to your life as well as grieving for the loss of any future contributions. Restricting the process to just grieving for your loss is, in my opinion, selfish and rather offensive to the memory of the deceased.

    Finally, the ceremony in Tucson was not a funeral, it was a memorial service. A memorial service is specifically designed to honor those who are memorialized. Funerals are private; memorials are public. The community applauded the tributes to the dead, injured, and heroic, because they were proud of the accomplishments of those members of their community and grateful to have the opportunity to acknowledge them on a world stage.

    Tucson is a community that values the privacy and dignity of its members. It is proud that international ‘celebrities’ choose to live in Tucson for exactly that reason, they can actually walk down the street and be normal, even though people may recognize them, they are not embarrassed or mobbed.There are few places in the world where this can happen.

    I am not saying that Tucson is radically different from other places, many communities embody the same attributes, but Tucson is indeed special. There are several things that contribute to this, many people think its a small town, but it is pushing a million people. More to the point, I think, is its rather unique blend of cultures, Anglo, Mexican, Indian, Black, Chinese; its relative geographic isolation; its ‘wild west’ roots; and its size, not too small, not too big (though it is pushing), close to an international border, but not too close. Few cities in America can claim that brilliant mix, perhaps Albuquerque is the only one that comes close.

  33. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 13, 2011 at 9:45 pm  (Quote) #

    Black Lion: More hilarity….The insanity will never stop because of the disturbed individuals out there that have fallen victim to Obama derangement syndrome….The latest example is below…

    January 11, 2011 – The White Hat Report #8 – The end of Obama’s Presidency
    OBAMA’S PRESIDENCY TERMINATED?

    Yeah, they wouldn’t even swallow this one over at Dr. Kate’s…

  34. avatar
    misha January 13, 2011 at 10:00 pm  (Quote) #

    Wild Bill H: Although, I’m coming to the conclusion now that only 1 of the candidates had an eligibility issue – and that was McCain. I think Obama is most definitely a NBC.

    I found an authentic Kenya BC (Obama’s?). Check it out, and let me know what you think.

  35. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 14, 2011 at 12:38 am  (Quote) #

    Black Lion:
    M, I know.Anyone that would believe any of that fiction is an idiot…However at the Dr Kate cesspool she thought it was believable so that tells us all we need to know about her and her followers….

    I found Dr. Kate’s followup comment amusing…

    drkate
    January 12, 2011 at 6:41 pm
    I quickly agree!!! This didn’t seem right to me, wanted others’ view. My feelings confirmed

  36. avatar
    ellid January 14, 2011 at 7:01 am  (Quote) #

    charo:
    A link that may be of interest to all:http://wdtprs.com/blog/2011/01/trappists-make-and-donate-a-casket-for-the-little-girl-killed-in-tucson/

    The Trappists are not now and never have been affiliated with the Wanderer or any other traditionalists or ultra-conservative Catholic movements. They are an off-shoot of the Cistercians, who were founded by Bernard of Clairvaux almost a thousand years ago. I am not at all surprised that they would do such a kind thing, as they have long practiced the charity and mercy that is at the heart of Jesus’ message.

  37. avatar
    Keith January 14, 2011 at 7:54 am  (Quote) #

    ellid:
    The Trappists are not now and never have been affiliated with the Wanderer or any other traditionalists or ultra-conservative Catholic movements. They are an off-shoot of the Cistercians, who were founded by Bernard of Clairvaux almost a thousand years ago.I am not at all surprised that they would do such a kind thing, as they have long practiced the charity and mercy that is at the heart of Jesus’ message.

    I don’t think that was the implication. Zuhlsdorf is reporting on the charitable actions of the Trappists on his blog.

    ellid is asserting that Zuhlsdorf is a Wanderer, not that he is a Trappist, or that Trappists are Wanderers.

  38. avatar
    Black Lion January 14, 2011 at 9:16 am  (Quote) #

    RJ: You people and allies on the far left were the first birthers. McCain’s natural born Citizenship questions, dual Citizenship status, and eligibility to be President under the constitution was challenged in February and March of 2009 by Professor Jonathan Turley and the New York Times. McCain was also sued over the matter at least once by a Mr. Hollander. There may have been another. Both McCain and Obama were not constitutionally eligible to be President and thus both candidates and political parties were complicit in the cover up and election fraud. A third party candidate, the Socialist Party, ran Mr. Calero who was not even a U.S. Citizen at all and only had a green card. The 2008 election presidential election was the most fraudulent in U.S. history with three constitutionally ineligible candidates on the ballot – Obama, McCain, and Calero.Meet Poppa Birther that father of the birther movement in the 2008 election cycle:http://birthers.org/misc/FOMB.htmlRJ

    Ahh, RJ, AKA Ramjet himself makes an appearance….Spewing the same nonsense referencing a site devoid of anything but fiction and innuendo….He is still unable to reference any actual laws to support his two parents nonsense and can only make up stuff claiming that it was all a conspiracy….Birthers are like Jason from the Friday the 13th movies, no matter how many times you defeat them they continually return with more nonsense…

  39. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 14, 2011 at 9:17 am  (Quote) #

    Black Lion: [Quoting]In the Supreme Court, the test for Obama, his cronies and this Administration, is for Obama to prove that he is a Natural born Citizen. Obama can’t do that as he has a Certified Birth Certificate in Kenya and Certificate of Live Birth’ from the State of Hawaii.

    While the text has a level and reasonable tone, the basic facts are wrong. This little paragraph is a good example. President Obama has no obligation to prove anything no matter who the plaintiff is. The one bringing the suit has to provide evidence that what they allege is true, and we have seen how woefully lacking all the birther lawsuits are in this area. The second false statement is that there is a Certified Birth Certificate in Kenya for Barack Obama. There are a couple of forgeries riddled with internal contradictions, but nothing “certified” or admissible in court.

    It is pure imagination to think that the Supreme Court is waiting for just the right case. Every court that has commented on any of these cases have expressed nothing but ridicule.

  40. avatar
    Lupin January 14, 2011 at 10:56 am  (Quote) #

    RJ: You people and allies on the far left were the first birthers.

    My people are the French and we mock your inane ideas and fart in your general direction.

  41. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 14, 2011 at 11:16 am  (Quote) #

    Lupin:
    My people are the French and we mock your inane ideas and fart in your general direction.

    We’re all waiting for you to mock him a second time…

  42. avatar
    US Citizen January 14, 2011 at 2:27 pm  (Quote) #

    So… exactly WHO certified the “Kenyan Birth Certificate” and by what authority?

    There’s more evidence that Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny exist than there is that Obama was born in Kenya.

  43. avatar
    Black Lion January 14, 2011 at 4:25 pm  (Quote) #

    The birthers are reposting some old nonsense from good old Mario….I guess he has been quiet since being dismissed by the SCOTUS….

    No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President.

    Why do we need to see Obama’s long form birth certificate, when all it will verify would be whether Obama was born in Hawaii or not?

    Do long form birth certificates from the 1960s state anything about the citizenship of the parents, if one or both parents were not citizens of the United States at the time of the child’s birth?

    Long form birth certificates for those born of US Citizens at the time of birth do not state directly anything about the citizenship status of the parents.

    Obama and the Democratic National Convention has admitted that:

    “When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.s children.

    Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.”

    What about his status as a British subject? Does that ever expire?

    http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate

    Would the Founders and Framers Have Allowed the Son of a British “Natural Born Subject” Father and U.S. Citizen Mother Be President and Commander in Chief of the United States in 2009?

    Sometimes it helps to break down a problem into its simple form in order to understand it better. Consider this.

    “The colonial history of Kenya dates from the Berlin Conference of 1885, when the European powers first partitioned east Africa into spheres of influence. In 1895, the British Government established the East African Protectorate and, soon after, opened the fertile highlands to white settlers. In 1920, Kenya officially became a British colony. From October 1952 to December 1959, Kenya was under a state of emergency arising from the Mau Mau rebellion against British colonial rule. Kenya became independent on December 12, 1963, and the next year joined the Commonwealth.” http://www.uiowa.edu/~africart/toc/countries/Kenya.html.

    Now let us apply this historical background to a factual scenario. We are in the time period after the Constitution is adopted in 1787. A man is born in a British colony as a British “natural born subject.” He comes to America just to study, with the intent to return to that British colony upon completion of his studies. While in America, he impregnates an American citizen. The two then marry and have a child who, let us assume for sake of argument, is born in one of the United States in 1961. The British man then finishes his studies and goes back to his native land, leaving both his wife and son in America. The wife eventually divorces this man.

    Query: Would the Founders and Framers, who wanted to assure the preservation of the new constitutional republic which they built with blood, sweat, and tears shed in a war with Great Britain, and who wrote in the Constitution that after its adoption only a “natural born Citizen” is eligible to be President, have allowed the child of that British “natural born subject” father and American citizen mother to be eligible to be President and Commander in Chief of the Military in 2009?

    Your comments and analysis are welcomed.

    Mario Apuzzo, Esq.
    http://puzo1.blogs.com
    December 16, 2010
    Modified on January 9, 2010

  44. avatar
    Majority Will January 14, 2011 at 4:56 pm  (Quote) #

    Black Lion: The birthers are reposting some old nonsense from good old Mario….I guess he has been quiet since being dismissed by the SCOTUS….

    Not exactly:
    http://www.caaflog.com/2010/11/28/this-week-in-military-justice-28-november-2010-edition/#comments

    El Putzo thinks if he has the last comment then his b.s. must be correct and therefore he wins.

    He’s deranged, narcissistic and full of crap as usual.

  45. avatar
    US Citizen January 15, 2011 at 1:00 am  (Quote) #

    Mario,

    If I just shed blood, sweat and tears in a war, penned and signed a document describing a new government and *didn’t* want children of Britain incuded, I think I would have explicitly said so.
    But nowhere in the Constitution does it mention banning immigrants from any country or denying their children citizenship.
    You would think if this was such an important point, they would have mentioned it somewhere, don’t you think?
    They were specific in saying 35 years was the minimum age, right?
    It would appear they considered who they wanted to be eligible if they choose such an absolute number for their age.
    But nowhere did they mention race, religion or sex as being qualifiers at all.

    Once again: The Constitution means what it says and doesn’t mean what it doesn’t say.

  46. avatar
    sfjeff January 15, 2011 at 1:41 am  (Quote) #

    Yeah Mario is pushing the same rhetoric about ‘would the founders have wanted….”?

    And I keep pointing out the founders would have been more likely to have wanted a son of Brit to be President than the son of a Black man or a woman or a Jew.

    Basing our concept of who could be a natural born citizen upon some supposed interpretation of what the writers of our Constitution would have intended is a fools game.

  47. avatar
    Lupin January 15, 2011 at 1:43 am  (Quote) #

    Black Lion (quoting): Your comments and analysis are welcomed.

    Mario Apuzzo, Esq.

    Surely not.

  48. avatar
    Keith January 15, 2011 at 7:27 pm  (Quote) #

    US Citizen: So… exactly WHO certified the “Kenyan Birth Certificate” and by what authority?There’s more evidence that Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny exist than there is that Obama was born in Kenya.

    And what does the World Health Organization have to do with it?

  49. avatar
    Black Lion January 17, 2011 at 12:28 am  (Quote) #

    Good Article from the so called Examiner….H/T to Bad Fiction…

    Orly Taitz shows her racist side

    Birther Queen Dr. Orly Taitz Esq. is ramping up the bigotry.

    In what she purports to be a letter she wrote to President Obama, inspired by his speech Wednesday at the Tuscon shootings memorial service, Orly says she wants to work with him to restore civility to the national debate.

    She then promptly accuses his grandmother of lying about his being born in Hawaii so that … wait, it’s better in her own words:

    Lying and getting a phony HI birth certificate was simply a way to quickly get welfare benefits for you and your mother.

    Way to be civil Orly.

    Oh, but she’s not finished being “civil:”

    Why don’t you explain to American people, why you do not have a valid Social Security number of your own from HI, why are you sitting in our White House, using someone else’s social security number?

    Taitz is convinced that Obama is using the Social Security number of a man born in 189 in Connecticut, although she has shown zero proof to back up her accusations. Birfoons around teh country have taken her at her word on this.

    She goes on being civil:

    All evidence points to massive fraud committed by you against American citizens and members of the U.S. military. Because of your fraud, your regime threw LTC Dr. Lakin into Fort Leavenworth military prison, while you arrogantly stand on the stage and lecture us about honesty and civility and empathy.

    Here she’s refering to Blue Falcon LTC. Terry Lakin, who was recently convicted by a military court of missing a movement and failuer to report to his commanding officer. He’s serving three months in prison, after which he will probably be stripped of his rank and pension and booted out of the Army. All because he refised to deploy to Afghanistan — making someone else deploy in his place — based on his belief that Obama is not eligible to be president.

    There’s a word for people like Lakin. Moron.

    And there’s more:

    I was persecuted by your regime and fined $20,000 for daring to represent active members of the U.S. military, challenging your legitimacy and exercising their Constitutional right for redress of grievances.

    No, Orly, you were sanctioned $20,000 by a federal judge for filing frivolous motions after you were told by that judge to stop filing frivolus motions. There’s a big difference there.

    More of Orly’s civility:

    I submit to you sir, that this nation was never torn like this before. We never saw such discourse. The reason is not in Sarah Palin or Rush Limbaugh. The reason is you and your pathological lying. Every time you open your mouth and start speaking, you make most of this nation extremely angry, our collective blood pressure is going through the roof and even an army of cardiologist will not cure it. A Pantheon full of preachers will not pacify us. Legions of crooked judges and crooked U.S. attorneys will not subdue us.

    No, actually, maybe 25 percent of Republicans — according to polls — get extremely angry. That’s nowhere near “most of this nation,” but why let facts get in the way of a good rant?

    It should be noted that Dr. Orly Taitz, Esq., has yet to win a birther case. Ever. And some of her defeats have been accompanied by scathing comments by judges, let alone the aforementioned sanctions. And Orly and her supporters will spin that as her having a perfect record.

    Becsause in Birther circles, up is down, right is left and Obama is a usurpin’ mofo.

    Keep the faith.

    http://www.examiner.com/birther-movement-in-national/orly-taitz-shows-her-racist-side

  50. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 17, 2011 at 12:32 am  (Quote) #

    I liked Nugent up until the time he became a pompous ass, which wasn’t too long after the Amboy Dukes released “Journey to the Center of the Mind.”

  51. avatar
    Black Lion January 17, 2011 at 12:49 am  (Quote) #

    Early Nugent was cool…I always remember him in an early episode of “Miami Vice” where he played a killer eventually killed off by Don Johnson’s character….It was downhill after that…

  52. avatar
    KenyanBornObamAcorn January 17, 2011 at 6:37 pm  (Quote) #

    misha: No white man ever had to show his birth certificate.

    No white man has NOT been a natural born citizen. They all were Natural Born Citizens or doctored in under the grandfather clause in Article 2 Section 1. Just because YOU don’t care about this country, doesn’t me we can’t! Obama is illegal and we will get rid of him, not that more and more are finding out. If the MSM didn’t cover for him so long, it would have happened a lot earlier!

  53. avatar
    KenyanBornObamAcorn January 17, 2011 at 6:42 pm  (Quote) #

    Dr. Conspiracy: While the text has a level and reasonable tone, the basic facts are wrong. This little paragraph is a good example. President Obama has no obligation to prove anything no matter who the plaintiff is. The one bringing the suit has to provide evidence that what they allege is true, and we have seen how woefully lacking all the birther lawsuits are in this area. The second false statement is that there is a Certified Birth Certificate in Kenya for Barack Obama. There are a couple of forgeries riddled with internal contradictions, but nothing “certified” or admissible in court.It is pure imagination to think that the Supreme Court is waiting for just the right case. Every court that has commented on any of these cases have expressed nothing but ridicule.

    The evidence is that he is not a natural born citizen, Kev. He must have two citizen partents and ya don’t need no stinkin birth certificate to prove that!

  54. avatar
    KenyanBornObamAcorn January 17, 2011 at 6:43 pm  (Quote) #

    KenyanBornObamAcorn: The evidence is that he is not a natural born citizen, Kev. He must have two citizen partents and ya don’t need no stinkin birth certificate to prove that!

    parentS

  55. avatar
    Scientist January 17, 2011 at 6:48 pm  (Quote) #

    One would think that someone so sure of himself would be willing to stake a few shekels on it.

  56. avatar
    KenyanBornObamAcorn January 17, 2011 at 6:57 pm  (Quote) #

    Scientist: One would think that someone so sure of himself would be willing to stake a few shekels on it.

    If we could get to the merits of the case, I’d bet my whole life on it. But, until Obama stops using taxpayer money to buy off people, we will never get anywhere!

  57. avatar
    Black Lion January 17, 2011 at 6:59 pm  (Quote) #

    Orly Taitz spews again, calls me a thug and media scum

    Now I haz a sad.

    You’ll remember that several days ago Birther Queen Dr. Orly Taitz, Esq. wrote an open letter to President Obama, about which I made a few comments. I also commented about her contention that there is a campaign of intimidation being conducted by the Obama administration against some elected officials.

    Well, the good doctor/lawyer/real estate agent visited my page and made a few comments herself, asically asking me why I attack her and don’t ask Obama why he’s got a dozen Social Security numbers and a few other things.

    She also called me media scum, but, as I told her, I’ve been called worse by better people.

    I replied by asking her to provide proof of her allegations. Certainly a Constitutional lawyer of her standing wouldn’t make wild accusations like that without solid proof that she’d readily release to prove her case.

    Well, instead of providing proof, Dr. Orly Esq. decided to write another open letter to the president, and take a swipe at me at the same time.

    After my 01.13.2011 open letter-challenge to you, an answer came from one of your surrogates, a media thug Bill Bowman. Bowman has written a couple of nasty articles in the “National Examiner” where he attacks me as a bigot and a racist, those articles were re-printed all over the world.

    Well, every time when you Mr. Obama, do not have an answer on the merits, you use some media scum to call opposition leaders racists and bigots? Why so? Probably, because you have no answer on the merits, so you resort to the old worn out charges of racism.

    So now I’m one of Obama’s surrogates. I have to ask, is that a paying position? Because I haven’t been given any forms to fill out or anything, and I want to make sure the checks go to the right address. Are you paying attention, George Soros?

    Oh, and do you like how she slipped in the “thug” comment? I;m a thug because I criticized her. Thin skin much, Orly?

    Now, Orly takes some pains in this second letter to demonstrate that she really isn’t a racist. Here’s how she proves it:

    Just to be perfectly clear sir, I believe that your white half is as corrupt as your black half. The issue is not in race, but in the massive Social Security and elections fraud, that you are perpetrating.

    Nice.

    On a more amusing note, Orly writes:

    Your operatives in the media and judiciary are saying Obama was elected. Fete a compli, live with it.

    Fete a compli?? You mean fait accompli, right Orly? I would chalk this up to English not being her primary language, but the phrase is French, so there’s really no excuse.

    In her letter, Orly claims that her “kingdom” (she’s the Birther Queen. Get it?) is growing, while Obama’s support is dwindling. A strange assertion, considering that Obama’s positive ratings are rising.

    As proof, she rpeats a joke made by Jimmy Kimmel on his television program, and notes that Obama jokes have popped up on other late night shows such as Saturday Night Live, and programs hosted by Jay Leno and David Letterman.

    So she’s willing to take political parody and satire as evidence of diminshed support. Interesting.

    Interesting because further down on her web site, Taitz reposts a clip of her July, 2009 visit to The Colbert Report. Now, we in the reality based world know that Stephen Colbert is playing a character on this program, it’s satire. That nuance seems to be lost on Taitz, as she seems to think Colbert is actually supporting her when, in fact, he’s mocking her to her face.

    Why do I say that? Well, from the get-go, Colbert says, Obama is a rotten president and “we have to get him out of office by any weird loophole we can make up.”

    Later in the interview, Taitz brings up a reference to Nazi soldiers not questioning their orders. “So few people are willing to compare the Obama administration to Nazi Germany,” Colbert says. “It’s refreshing to hear that.”

    Taitz also calls Obama “Stalin” in the clip.

    A day before Taitz’ visit, Colbert has this to say about Birthers: the movement is “made up of decent, old-fashioned Americans who just want to overturn a democratic election.”

    Anyway, Orly, I’m still willing to look at the proof you have that Obama has however many Social Security numbers you say he has, and whatever else you’re claiming. But I’m notholding my breath that I’ll see it.

    Keep the faith.

    http://www.examiner.com/birther-movement-in-national/orly-taitz-spews-again-calls-me-a-thug-and-media-scum

  58. avatar
    Black Lion January 17, 2011 at 7:06 pm  (Quote) #

    And Orly makes an appearance…

    Orly Taitz 5 hours ago

    this is Orly Taitz.
    More twisting and raping of the truth by Bill Bowman and examiner.
    Please, go to my page and see the affidavits of retired senior depostation officer John Sampson and investigator Susan Daniels-show that Obama does not have a valid SS number from HI. Anyone else would be sitting in prison just for that.
    Bowman conveniently missed this fact.
    He also missed interviews done by Jake Taper and Chris Mathews-both left wing reporters, stating that Obama never produced a valid long form birth certificate.
    Mathews from MSNBC challenged Obama to release those. If your own people de facto call you a fraud and a stinking liar, you are in real trouble Mr. Obama.

  59. avatar
    Scientist January 17, 2011 at 7:07 pm  (Quote) #

    KenyanBornObamAcorn: If we could get to the merits of the case, I’d bet my whole life on it. But, until Obama stops using taxpayer money to buy off people, we will never get anywhere!

    You said he would be gone by the end of the year. Now, instead of being a man you are trying to weasel out of your own words. I’m not surprized.

  60. avatar
    Sef January 17, 2011 at 7:16 pm  (Quote) #

    Scientist: One would think that someone so sure of himself would be willing to stake a few shekels on it.

    I’m willing to lay money on Obama not being President after noon on Jan 20, 2017. Any takers?

  61. avatar
    Black Lion January 17, 2011 at 7:32 pm  (Quote) #

    Scientist: You said he would be gone by the end of the year. Now, instead of being a man you are trying to weasel out of your own words. I’m not surprized.

    Scientist, of course the goalposts are changed. She, like all of the other birthers keep themselves going on the false hope that one day some court somewhere will go against the law and common sense and somehow find a way to remove the lawfully elected President of the US, thus making the US a laughingstock of the world and no better that some third world bananna republic….KBOA, aka Tracy is just a sad troll that is looking for some attention….I guess she wasn’t getting enough over at Dr. Kate’s house of ignorance….

  62. avatar
    Black Lion January 17, 2011 at 7:51 pm  (Quote) #

    Orly Taitz Tells Obama His White Half Is As Corrupt as His Black Half
    And then says, “it’s not about race”?

    Orly Taitz posted her first racist letter to Obama on the Internet on January 13th, no doubt expecting to receive massive media glory for having the chutzpa to stand up to the horrible beast she believes him to be. Instead she was slammed around the world for being the bigot and a racist she is. No surprise there to anyone but Orly. Well that really pissed her off, so what does she do? She writes Obama another letter of course. This time putting both feet in her mouth, and then shoving them half way down her throat.

    I swear I am truly amazed.

    “Mr. Barack Hussein Obama
    1600 Pennsylvania Ave
    Washington DC
    District of Columbia

    Dear Mr. Obama,
    After my 01.13.2011 open letter-challenge to you, an answer came from one of your surrogates, a media thug Bill Bowman. Bowman has written a couple of nasty articles in the “National Examiner” where he attacks me as a bigot and a racist, those articles were re-printed all over the world.

    And a racist bigot you are!

    “Well, every time when you Mr. Obama, do not have an answer on the merits, you use some media scum to call opposition leaders racists and bigots? Why so? Probably, because you have no answer on the merits, so you resort to the old worn out charges of racism.”

    Of course the fact that there are no merits to any of her bullshit claims is completely irrelevant.

    “Just to be perfectly clear sir, I believe that your white half is as corrupt as your black half. The issue is not in race, but in the massive Social Security and elections fraud, that you are perpetrating. Truth matters to America. Not George Soros’s “Media Matters for America, but Orly Taitz “Truth Matters for America”.

    Orly Taitz wouldn’t know the truth if it walked up and bit her on the ass. Why doesn’t she just come out and call him a “no good nig#er half-breed” for Gawd’s sake!

    “Your operatives in the media and judiciary are saying Obama was elected. Fete a compli, live with it.
    Not so fast, sir. If a forger sells you a fake Rembrandt or Picasso, it is not fete a compli. As a victim, you have a recourse of restitution of monies taken from you by false pretenses. The DA can go after the thief and bring criminal charges.”
    “We are 309 million victims. Our Presidency was stolen from us by false pretenses by one, who got into the White house without a valid long form birth Certificate with the name of the doctor and hospital and signatures and without a valid social security number. The race of the perpetrator is not important, the crime is important. When you presented your candidacy for presidency, 60 million Americans or about 20% of the population cast their vote for you under false pretenses, believing fraudulent statements of eligibility. This is not a legitimate electoral victory, it is a theft by false pretenses. This is not a race-gate, this is ObamaFraudGate, which is much bigger, than the Watergate.”

    Correction, I guess she meant to make that “no good LYING nig#er half-breed”. The only thing I can think of bigger than Watergate is Orly’s fucking mouth.

    “The media named me the “Queen of the Birthers” and the leader of the Birther movement. But what is a birther? It is a person, who is asking legitimate questions? “Why is a person without a valid SS number of his own and without a valid long form BC is allowed to reside in the White House as the President and Commander in Chief.” It is not only a right wing movement. It is right, left and center. My kingdom is growing. Any decent American, anyone who is not completely brain dead is asking: “why doesn’t he produce the papers? why don’t the courts hear the case?” Lately even the most leftist and liberal reporters like Chris Mathews of MSNBC and Jake Taper from ABC immigrated to my kingdom. If I am the Queen of the Birthers, what are you? How should we call you, an arrogant paper-less resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue? Should we call you the Sultan of fraudsters? The Pharaoh of Squatters? The King of Thieves?”

    “Arrogant, Sultan of fraudsters, Pharaoh of squatters, King of thieves?” I swear she has snapped her cookies!

    “While my Kingdom is growing and booming, your kingdom is shattered by the earthquakes of massive defections. Late night comedians of the Saturday Night Live, Jay Leno, David Letterman and Jimmy Kimmel are making fun of you.”

    Hay Orly, do you have any clue how much fun is made of your ignorant ass around the world on a daily basis?

    “The latest came from Jimmy Kimmel: “what is the difference between Barack Obama and his dog Bo Obama?” the answer: ” Bo, the dog, has papers”. You made a mockery of the U.S. presidency. You are telling everyone to get along and show civility, while your surrogates in the media are attacking me and other leaders of the opposition, while the regime is exerting an undue influence on the judiciary.”

    No Orly, you are the one making a mockery. You mock this country with your blatant disrespect, with your racist hatred, and with the fact that you have no clue of what it means to be an American.

    “You are telling everyone to be civil and sing Kumbaya, but the subliminal message is “Be quiet, don’t question me, don’t question my legitimacy”. Let me tell you sir, I came to the world of law from the world of medicine. I know that placing a bandage on a cancer lesion and looking the other way will not cure you from cancer. No, sir, the cancer will kill you, if you do not take a radical approach and do not remove the lesion.”

    I “really” hope the California Bar is reading this, as well as the FBI.

    “Similarly, if the issue of your legitimacy or, should I say illegitimacy, to U.S. presidency is not resolved on the merits, it will destroy the U.S, presidency. It is a clear threat to US national security. It is a threat to our judiciary, as now there is an undue pressure on judges to use any means : legal or illegal to silence the opposition. It is a threat to our Constitutional rights. Decent Americans want to get out from under this spell. They want to know the truth and they want to know that we have a president with allegiance to the United States of America, and not any other country. They do not want to be in the bondage of darkness, of silence by intimidation, of silence imposed by the governmental authority, that is being misused, they want to be free. In short, they want to be Birthers.
    So, here is a challenge from the Queen of Birthers to the King of Thieves “Let my people go!!!

    Respectfully,
    Dr. Orly Taitz, ESQ”

    Who the f*ck does she think she is, Moses? And where in the hell does she get the balls to sign this letter “Respectfully”?

    Orly, why don’t you take your little birfer crown and carry your sorry racist ass back to Moldavia, or wherever it is you came from. You are a disgrace to this country, and an even bigger disgrace to the legal profession.

  63. avatar
    Black Lion January 17, 2011 at 7:55 pm  (Quote) #

    Orly Taitz Tells Obama His White Half Is As Corrupt as His Black Half
    And then says, “it’s not about race”?

    Orly Taitz posted her first racist letter to Obama on the Internet on January 13th, no doubt expecting to receive massive media glory for having the chutzpa to stand up to the horrible beast she believes him to be. Instead she was slammed around the world for being the bigot and a racist she is. No surprise there to anyone but Orly. Well that really pissed her off, so what does she do? She writes Obama another letter of course. This time putting both feet in her mouth, and then shoving them half way down her throat.

    I swear I am truly amazed.

    “Mr. Barack Hussein Obama
    1600 Pennsylvania Ave
    Washington DC
    District of Columbia

    Dear Mr. Obama,
    After my 01.13.2011 open letter-challenge to you, an answer came from one of your surrogates, a media thug Bill Bowman. Bowman has written a couple of nasty articles in the “National Examiner” where he attacks me as a bigot and a racist, those articles were re-printed all over the world.

    And a racist bigot you are!

    “Well, every time when you Mr. Obama, do not have an answer on the merits, you use some media scum to call opposition leaders racists and bigots? Why so? Probably, because you have no answer on the merits, so you resort to the old worn out charges of racism.”

    Of course the fact that there are no merits to any of her bulls*it claims is completely irrelevant.

    “Just to be perfectly clear sir, I believe that your white half is as corrupt as your black half. The issue is not in race, but in the massive Social Security and elections fraud, that you are perpetrating. Truth matters to America. Not George Soros’s “Media Matters for America, but Orly Taitz “Truth Matters for America”.

    Orly Taitz wouldn’t know the truth if it walked up and bit her on the a*s. Why doesn’t she just come out and call him a “no good nig#er half-breed” for Gawd’s sake!

    “Your operatives in the media and judiciary are saying Obama was elected. Fete a compli, live with it.
    Not so fast, sir. If a forger sells you a fake Rembrandt or Picasso, it is not fete a compli. As a victim, you have a recourse of restitution of monies taken from you by false pretenses. The DA can go after the thief and bring criminal charges.”
    “We are 309 million victims. Our Presidency was stolen from us by false pretenses by one, who got into the White house without a valid long form birth Certificate with the name of the doctor and hospital and signatures and without a valid social security number. The race of the perpetrator is not important, the crime is important. When you presented your candidacy for presidency, 60 million Americans or about 20% of the population cast their vote for you under false pretenses, believing fraudulent statements of eligibility. This is not a legitimate electoral victory, it is a theft by false pretenses. This is not a race-gate, this is ObamaFraudGate, which is much bigger, than the Watergate.”

    Correction, I guess she meant to make that “no good LYING nig#er half-breed”. The only thing I can think of bigger than Watergate is Orly’s fu*king mouth.

    “The media named me the “Queen of the Birthers” and the leader of the Birther movement. But what is a birther? It is a person, who is asking legitimate questions? “Why is a person without a valid SS number of his own and without a valid long form BC is allowed to reside in the White House as the President and Commander in Chief.” It is not only a right wing movement. It is right, left and center. My kingdom is growing. Any decent American, anyone who is not completely brain dead is asking: “why doesn’t he produce the papers? why don’t the courts hear the case?” Lately even the most leftist and liberal reporters like Chris Mathews of MSNBC and Jake Taper from ABC immigrated to my kingdom. If I am the Queen of the Birthers, what are you? How should we call you, an arrogant paper-less resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue? Should we call you the Sultan of fraudsters? The Pharaoh of Squatters? The King of Thieves?”

    “Arrogant, Sultan of fraudsters, Pharaoh of squatters, King of thieves?” I swear she has snapped her cookies!

    “While my Kingdom is growing and booming, your kingdom is shattered by the earthquakes of massive defections. Late night comedians of the Saturday Night Live, Jay Leno, David Letterman and Jimmy Kimmel are making fun of you.”

    Hay Orly, do you have any clue how much fun is made of your ignorant a*s around the world on a daily basis?

    “The latest came from Jimmy Kimmel: “what is the difference between Barack Obama and his dog Bo Obama?” the answer: ” Bo, the dog, has papers”. You made a mockery of the U.S. presidency. You are telling everyone to get along and show civility, while your surrogates in the media are attacking me and other leaders of the opposition, while the regime is exerting an undue influence on the judiciary.”

    No Orly, you are the one making a mockery. You mock this country with your blatant disrespect, with your racist hatred, and with the fact that you have no clue of what it means to be an American.

    “You are telling everyone to be civil and sing Kumbaya, but the subliminal message is “Be quiet, don’t question me, don’t question my legitimacy”. Let me tell you sir, I came to the world of law from the world of medicine. I know that placing a bandage on a cancer lesion and looking the other way will not cure you from cancer. No, sir, the cancer will kill you, if you do not take a radical approach and do not remove the lesion.”

    I “really” hope the California Bar is reading this, as well as the FBI.

    “Similarly, if the issue of your legitimacy or, should I say illegitimacy, to U.S. presidency is not resolved on the merits, it will destroy the U.S, presidency. It is a clear threat to US national security. It is a threat to our judiciary, as now there is an undue pressure on judges to use any means : legal or illegal to silence the opposition. It is a threat to our Constitutional rights. Decent Americans want to get out from under this spell. They want to know the truth and they want to know that we have a president with allegiance to the United States of America, and not any other country. They do not want to be in the bondage of darkness, of silence by intimidation, of silence imposed by the governmental authority, that is being misused, they want to be free. In short, they want to be Birthers.
    So, here is a challenge from the Queen of Birthers to the King of Thieves “Let my people go!!!

    Respectfully,
    Dr. Orly Taitz, ESQ”

    Who the fu*k does she think she is, Moses? And where in the hell does she get the balls to sign this letter “Respectfully”?

    Orly, why don’t you take your little birfer crown and carry your sorry racist a*s back to Moldavia, or wherever it is you came from. You are a disgrace to this country, and an even bigger disgrace to the legal profession.

    http://crazyinternetpeople.blogspot.com/2011/01/orly-taitz-tells-obama-his-white-half.html

  64. avatar
    Scientist January 17, 2011 at 8:08 pm  (Quote) #

    Black Lion: Fete a compli, live with it.

    Her ignorance of French is almost as bad as her ignorance of the law. “Fete” is French for party (also for birthday) and ” a compli” doesn’t mean anything in French. I believe she wanted “fait accompli” which means “accomplished fact”. It’s bad enough she mangles English, she really ought to leave French alone.

  65. avatar
    Rickey January 17, 2011 at 8:42 pm  (Quote) #

    KenyanBornObamAcorn:
    The evidence is that he is not a natural born citizen, Kev. He must have two citizen partents and ya don’t need no stinkin birth certificate to prove that!

    I’m still waiting for a birther to identify one history book, law book, or civics book which states that a natural born citizen must have two citizen parents.

    All I’m looking for is the title, author, publisher, and year of publication. That shouldn’t be too difficult for you. Dr. Kate claims that it was taught in all the schools during the forties and fifties.

  66. avatar
    Daniel January 17, 2011 at 8:56 pm  (Quote) #

    KenyanBornObamAcorn:
    If we could get to the merits of the case, I’d bet my whole life on it. But, until Obama stops using taxpayer money to buy off people, we will never get anywhere!

    If the case had merits it would have been over long ago. If the case had merits, all the Republicans, and most of the Democrats in Congress and the Senate would have refused to ratify the election, and Obama would not have been sworn in.

    Instead you birthers drip and moan because you cannot make a case in court, which doesn’t have jurisdiction anyways, and you can’t get past the minimum that every single case in every single court in the country has to meet, that of standing.

    In essence you want special treatment to abandon both the Constitution, and legal procedure, in order to get a special grandstand to voice your ridiculous notins, that no other citizen is entitled to.

    Sorry Birthers, but you’re not that special.

  67. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 18, 2011 at 12:31 am  (Quote) #

    Daniel:
    If the case had merits it would have been over long ago. If the case had merits, all the Republicans, and most of the Democratsin Congress and the Senate would have refused to ratify the election, and Obama would not have been sworn in.Instead you birthers drip and moan because you cannot make a case in court, which doesn’t have jurisdiction anyways, and you can’t get past the minimum that every single case in every single court in the country has to meet, that of standing.In essence you want special treatment to abandon both the Constitution, and legal procedure, in order to get a special grandstand to voice your ridiculous notins, that no other citizen is entitled to.Sorry Birthers, but you’re not that special.

    And the most ridiculous of ironies is their loony claim that the Constitution gives them the right to abandon the Constitution.

  68. avatar
    The Magic M January 18, 2011 at 7:11 am  (Quote) #

    > No white man has NOT been a natural born citizen. They all were Natural Born Citizens

    And where is the “proof” that they were? You birthers yourself claimed that there is no-one vetting the candidates for eligibility and there never was.
    So how can you be any more sure that the Bushes, Reagan, Nixon, Eisenhower, … were eligible that you are that Obama is eligible?
    What is it that sets Obama apart from the other presidents of which none would pass the “moving goalposts tests” that you birthers keep inventing for Obama? I don’t see anything except race.
    None of you seems to care if G.W. Bush was properly vetted, if it was proven – to the extreme extent you birthers demand – where he was born and to which parents. Although, by your logic, without such proof it should be clear that all the laws he signed are “null and void”, right?
    You haven’t seen G.W. Bush’s birth certificate, have you? Yet you don’t even mention that issue once, though it should be almost as important as Obama’s eligibility if you actually were serious about your alleged concerns. Very telling.

    > If the MSM didn’t cover for him so long, it would have happened a lot earlier

    Sure, if the MSM and Congress and Democrats and Republicans and courts and SCOTUS and – oh, just about everyone but a couple hundred looneys weren’t part of the Beeg Konspeeracy [tm], Obama would no longer be President and Earth would be flat again.

  69. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 18, 2011 at 9:19 am  (Quote) #

    KenyanBornObamAcorn: No white man has NOT been a natural born citizen. They all were Natural Born Citizens or doctored in under the grandfather clause in Article 2 Section 1. Just because YOU don’t care about this country, doesn’t me we can’t! Obama is illegal and we will get rid of him, not that more and more are finding out. If the MSM didn’t cover for him so long, it would have happened a lot earlier!

    According to your flawed definition of natural born citizen Chester A Arthur was not. He was white. So using your own logic, you’re wrong.

  70. avatar
    Horus January 18, 2011 at 9:45 am  (Quote) #

    Black Lion: If we break this down to its simplest common denominator and confine the argument to the true meaning of the Founding Fathers, Obama’s mother, upon the conception Barrack Hussein Obama, was married to a verified Kenyan citizen, meaning he does not have the blood of two (2) verifiable citizens of the United States of America.

    Again with this old canard?
    These people are truly idiots.

  71. avatar
    Horus January 18, 2011 at 9:48 am  (Quote) #

    The Magic M: You haven’t seen G.W. Bush’s birth certificate, have you?

    If they had seen it they would know that he was not born in TX.

  72. avatar
    The Magic M January 18, 2011 at 9:49 am  (Quote) #

    > the blood of two (2) verifiable citizens of the United States of America

    Gee, I wonder where that would show up in a DNA test. Under Section XII (b) “Genetic citizenship: [X] Americanosyn [X] Kenyatocyn [ ] Canadaphan [ ] Chineseol”?

  73. avatar
    Horus January 18, 2011 at 9:59 am  (Quote) #

    Let me just give my views of McCain’s birth.
    I grew up in the military.
    We did all our shopping at the Commissary and PX.
    Plus, the base was where we got all our medical care.

    That is why I know this; Military base Hospitals and dispensaries, never had maternity wards.
    Which means McCain was not born in the Canal Zone where the base was.
    He must have been born in a Panamanian hospital.
    But, that does not even matter because at least one of his parents was a US citizen.

    I myself was born in a public hospital even though we lived on base at the time of my birth.

  74. avatar
    Horus January 18, 2011 at 10:12 am  (Quote) #

    Black Lion: Let me tell you sir, I came to the world of law from the world of medicine.

    Since when is dentistry medicine?

  75. avatar
    Black Lion January 18, 2011 at 3:26 pm  (Quote) #

    Even more Obama derangement, this time from the fake WH insider known as the Ulsterman…..Which as we all know is a guy making stuff up…Kind of like WND or the Post and Fail…

    http://newsflavor.com/politics/world-politics/white-house-insider-obama-celebrates-shortly-after-delivering-tucson-memorial-speech/

    Some lowlights….

    “The speech itself was a remarkable display. Very powerful speech. Perhaps the president’s finest moment since taking office. The things happening outside the speech though left many of us wondering who was in charge of planning the event because that environment was almost a disaster. You were right to call into question the t-shirts. That was in very poor taste. The excuse that the Obama administration had nothing to do with those t-shirts is completely false. Every detail is run by the administration on this kind of event. Every last detail. Also, many who had attended were actually coached to be “very supportive” of President Obama. I don’t agree that this should have been “Obama’s Oklahoma”. The media is trying to make it just that, with the full support of the Obama White House/Jarrett. Tucson was a terrible tragedy. Oklahoma was something much-much bigger than that. I find it more than a bit troubling to hear all this comparison between the two events. And regarding Obama’s attitude on this tragedy. Here is something that you will never hear from the media but that some witnessed shortly after the memorial service had finished. Behind the staging area, Obama gave Michelle a “high five” and shared a laugh with her. So within minutes of seeing what is Obama’s finest moment as president it is followed by one of his worst. It is this easy and always there contradiction in the president that concerns me very very much. He was just thrilled at his performance. That was priority #1 for him. It always is. The motivation for his speech was not to heal following the tragedy, but to further appeal to the public and get their approval of him. It’s similar to that story I told you about Obama coming into the military meeting at the WH. He came in laughing and left early laughing. Maybe a photo of the high five will be released? I was told one was taken at any rate. I cannot reconcile with that kind of behavior in a leader. There really is something missing in him. Some basic element of humanity. Or humility??? Even by DC political standards the human element in Obama seems to be utterly absent.”

    “Palin? I don’t really care one way or the other. I read your defense of her. Not bad, but frankly, Palin is no longer the threat she was to the party not so long ago. I have heard first hand there is no way she gets the nomination. As in NO WAY. Understand? I still find her appeal a fascinating thing to watch unfold, but she will not be a factor beyond some version of a conservative political cheer leader IMO. Unless, and I will throw you a bit of a bone here, UNLESS something comes out on the birther stuff. Yeah, I’m bringing it up myself here. Something is out there but nobody wants to touch it. The topic is coming up amongst us more than it ever has. I’m talking people who mocked it, dismissed it before, who are now quietly saying something is stirring out there on this subject and it’s got the WH very concerned. Big time worried. There are discussion in the WH about the issue. And I think some of the Republican leadership has a whiff of it but all indications appear to be they want nothing to do with it. It’s being buried deep. For now. Barring something on that subject coming to light, I don’t see Sarah Palin playing a significant role as a candidate in 2012. And the birther thing is not the scandal I have spoken of before. THAT event is still unfolding. Maybe. Issa and Co have sent out some interesting smoke signals in-house. I think he may actually pursue something there. If he does follow through, here is how it will likely go down based on the admittedly general information I have been told. Something along the lines of the DOJ being investigated. Perhaps the NBP case or similar. Within the context of that investigation things will be lead back to Chicago. Banking, election fraud, organized crime…so many possibilities there. The activity in Chicago by WH operatives has been significant in recent months.”

    “I have not seen the president in person for some time now. I do believe he is still being treated for some form of depression or related issue. And his smoking remains a concern. He has not quit. So I have nothing more than what you have already heard. I would like to know who told you though.”

    “I still believe a primary challenge from the Democratic Party will come against Obama, and will be announced within next few months. I also believe Mike Huckabee is the frontrunner for the Republicans and the man most capable of defeating Obama in 12. More important to any of that though is what comes out of House oversight in the next month or so. If it appears quiet, I fear a deal was made and Obama survives the scandal.”

  76. avatar
    Black Lion January 18, 2011 at 3:41 pm  (Quote) #

    Ulsterman unmasked and debunked…

    “For the past several weeks, a writer who goes only by “Ulsterman” has produced a series of interviews with a nameless “White House Insider,” who he claims has close access to the inner workings of the Obama Administration. Since the first appearance of the “Insider” in September, “Ulsterman” has published more than a dozen supposed interviews with his own personal Deep Throat.

    Some people have completely bought into these stories, while others have been more skeptical.

    And for good reason. “Ulsterman” offers no evidence that he’s an actual reporter, or that he has any legitimate contacts. The websites that he submits articles to, such as Newsflavor, are for user-submitted content, and have no editorial oversight. He is an anonymous person claiming to interview a second anonymous person. And as time has gone on, more people have begun to believe that the “Insider” is nothing but an attempt at a hoax, as the “interviews” have become increasingly conversational and unprofessional, resembling bad fiction more than actual conversations with a valued asset.

    The important question is: can it be proven that “Ulsterman” has made up stories? The answer is: yes. “Ulsterman” has repeatedly made up individual subjects, given them fake jobs and employers, and fabricated whole interviews with these imaginary people. With “the Washington Insider,” he kept his fake person anonymous, so that his fraud couldn’t be exposed directly. But in multiple other articles, he wasn’t so careful, and he simply presented fiction as if it were news.

    In all, “Ulsterman” has used fabricated interviews in at least seven articles he wrote and published between September and November. Four of these articles he has already scrubbed. Below, you will see each of those seven articles exposed as the lie it is.”

    http://ulster-man.blogspot.com/

  77. avatar
    Daniel January 18, 2011 at 3:43 pm  (Quote) #

    Horus:
    Since when is dentistry medicine?

    Are you serious?

  78. avatar
    Majority Will January 18, 2011 at 3:58 pm  (Quote) #

    Horus:
    Since when is dentistry medicine?

    It may not be as glamorous as podiatry but it certainly is a medical profession subject to licensing requirements, dispensing pharmaceuticals, surgical techniques and the diagnosis, prevention, and treatment of diseases.

    The American Dental Association recognizes nine dental specialties: Public Health Dentistry, Endodontics, Oral & Maxillofacial Pathology, Oral & Maxillofacial Radiology, Oral & Maxillofacial Surgery (Oral Surgeon), Orthodontics, Pediatric Dentistry, Periodontics, Prosthodontics, and General Dentistry.

    I’m no anti-dentite:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-dentite

  79. avatar
    Black Lion January 18, 2011 at 4:08 pm  (Quote) #

    More birther hilarity…It show how deranged these individuals really are….

    “charlesmountain January 16, 2011 at 4:33 am
    I wouldn’t hesitate to say that you dr.kate and your fellow bloggers are probably much closer and in tune with how the eligiblity situation is unfolding. But from my little neck of the woods, and with what information I have been able glean, my opinion is that the reek of desperation is now beginning to come from the conservative/GOP’ers. For the most part you have all the usual suspects, Fox News, Beck, Huckabee etc., and the political pundits to conservative radio touting His fraudliness’s so called healing speech at the pep rally/memorial in Tucson. I call it bullcrap! He is trying to make his last little boy pokes at transforamtion for his global handlers. The birther issue is coming down hot and heavy. There is no need to soften our stance at this point for any reason! The moderate right is running scared! They are trying to hide behind the staged rhetoric from the fallout in Arizona. Imagine, after two years of unprecedented unpresidential shenanigans now all of a sudden he is acting presidential? Oh, now he is triangulating and coming towards the center? No way! The length and breadth of this conspiracy runs so deep and permeates every concievable level of power in both parties at both the state and federal level in conjunction with the media third arm it cannot and will not go away. The odious and treasonous nature of it combined with sheer weight of facts has driven everyone diving and scampering for the nearest foxhole they can find and praying for some sort of miracle like it’s a dream they can hope to awake from. But it ain’t! The stalwarts are not slowing down. The pressure is being applied from all angles! More and more citizens want answers for the contorted reasoning of the sealing of records and illegal Social Security number(s). I think we are getting very close. We are inside the perimeter. It’s time to put the pedal to the metal. The fear of civil war is a cover excuse for both sides, the Republicans have just as much a hand in this as the Democrats. They are all afraid of complicitity and the negligence of their duty. The obot bloggers and their vulture guardians at the portals of freedom on the internet have nothing left but idle threats and regurgitated tripe. So push on and bring them all down and don’t be afraid of some ignorant uprising in some urban area. It just a matter of time before this buffoon is forced to release the dregs of his sorry excuse of a past. There is too much ground that cannot be covered and the fabrication is threadbare and wearing thin. Everyone just keep flooding the blogs, making the phone calls and keep the pressure on. We are already there.”

    http://drkatesview.wordpress.com/2011/01/16/whats-the-deal/

  80. avatar
    obsolete January 18, 2011 at 4:31 pm  (Quote) #

    Black Lion: The length and breadth of this conspiracy runs so deep and permeates every concievable level of power in both parties at both the state and federal level in conjunction with the media third arm it cannot and will not go away.

    If the conspiracy is as deep as they claim it is, they have already failed and will continue to do so with no chance of ever breaking it.

  81. avatar
    Black Lion January 19, 2011 at 11:17 pm  (Quote) #

    PPP: Public Trust In Fox News Is Plummeting
    January 19, 2011 4:06 pm ET by Ben Dimiero

    Fox News’ 2010 featured the network’s hosts and contributors aggressively campaigning and fundraising for the GOP, trafficking in over-the-top rhetoric, and hyping an unending cavalcade of manufactured scandals (like Obama supposedly giving a major chunk of Arizona back to Mexico).

    2010 also marked the network’s hiring of Sarah Palin, their continued employment of serial misinformer Glenn Beck, and the revelation that Fox execs are deliberately slanting the network’s news coverage.

    In likely related news, Public Policy Polling released their second annual TV News Trust Poll, which found that, in contrast to a year ago, a plurality of Americans now distrust Fox News.

    As they explain in their blog post about the poll’s findings, this loss of support comes mostly from moderates and liberals. Trust among conservatives has fallen slightly:

    A year ago a plurality of Americans said they trusted Fox News. Now a plurality of them don’t. Conservatives haven’t moved all that much- 75% said they trusted it last year and 72% still do this time around. But moderates and liberals have both had a strong increase in their level of distrust for the network- a 12 point gain from 48% to 60% for moderates and a 16 point gain from 66% to 82% for liberals. Voters between left and center tend to be more trusting of the media across the board, which is why a fair number of them were still rating Fox favorably even a year ago at this time. But it looks like with a lot of those folks it has finally crossed the line to being too political to trust.

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/201101190031

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