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Typography on the Lucas Smith Kenyan birth certificate – 2nd half

The first half

In the first half of our topic, Typography on the Lucas Smith Kenyan birth certificate, we looked at an email from someone who claims to be an experienced pressman. He analyzed the Lucas Smith Kenyan birth certificate, and concluded that it was a fake, basically saying that characteristics of the print are those of modern digital composition, and not those of commercial printing in 1961 or before when the certificate in question was printed. The pressman’s argument could be distilled into two points:

  1. The letters “ny” in Kenya appear as a single glyph (the descender of the “y” underneath the “n”). This is highly unusual for body text prior to digital typography.
  2. The font used in the certificate is Adobe Caslon [or bold], a font that didn’t exist before 1980.

The discussion got rather heated and it also ranged to other perceived flaws in the Smith certificate.

Historical objections

The main claim of a historical flaw centers on the “Chief Administrator” shown on the form, “Helton Maganga.” Objections are that Maganga was not the Chief Administrator of the Coast General Hospital in Mombasa in February of 2009 when the copy was dated, and that he spelled his name “Heltan” with an “a.”

Other alleged flaws include the name of the physician who signed the original certificate not being at the hospital in question and the use of the word “province” instead of “region.”

Internal objections

These include the absence of an informant signature, dates in the US style rather than the British style (Kenya was a British colony in 1961), and an extremely unusual height to weight ratio for the infant described on the form.

Contextual objections

These center on the story of how the birth certificate was obtained and how its appearance lines up with that story.

First half highlights

I think we have more loose ends than when we started, but let me summarize some highlights:

  • Lucas Smith, the presenter of the Kenyan Obama birth certificate, joined the discussion and gave us an extended narrative of how he claims the certificate was obtained, beyond an affidavit filed by Orly Taitz in the case of Barnett v. Obama. A couple humorous accounts of Smith’s alleged trip to Kenya appeared here and on YouTube.
  • Commenter Sef stated that the Smith certificate font was not made with the Adobe Caslon or ITC Caslon font and raised other questions. I observed that the font was not Bitstream Caslon 540. So far, no commenter has come up with a procedure using a modern font and a modern word processing program to reproduce the “ny” appearance of the Smith certificate.
  • While Smith came up with examples of a “ny” ligature in old text for large titles, we haven’t seen it yet in old body text (but we do see it in modern books).
  • The WorldNetDaily image of a government-issued certificate from Kenya was noted.
  • No external support for the certificate was presented (i.e. no example of a similar certificate from Kenya or documentation that Smith even traveled to Kenya). The certificate and the narrative rest solely on Smith’s word, and it should be mentioned that Smith is a convicted felon.
  • I observed that Dr. Heltan Maganga’s LinkedIn profile has his first name spelled with an “a.”
  • Smith claims that Er. Maganga never saw the certificate, yet his signature is on it. Someone said it was a stamped signature, but it is obvious from looking at it that it is not a stamp (compare to the other stamp-like images on the form).
  • The claim is made that the baby measurements on the form indicate dwarfism, but I was not able to confirm this for myself, but I was able to verify using CDC charts that a 7 lb 1 oz baby only 18 inches long was something found in less than 2 out of 100 babies. Shoulder width is normally well-correlated to birth weight. The infant described in the certificate is dead on average in weight, but has shoulders 20% above normal.
  • Finally, I would like to add a new question: would a hospital in a British colony in 1961 use inches or centimeters? Kenya officially went metric in 1967.

So as we open the second half, the Obot team is challenged with figuring exactly what modern digital font was used to make Smith’s certificate and Smith is challenged with finding a “ny” ligature in normal body text printing or on a government form. Of course all the other objections are open for discussion too (including any new ones).

I would just remind the obot team that confirmation bias works on everybody and that people who use name calling don’t come across as well as people who are civil in a debate.

 

165 Responses to Typography on the Lucas Smith Kenyan birth certificate – 2nd half

  1. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 20, 2011 at 12:14 am #

    One of the mistakes one sees in a fake typewritten form is that the letters don’t align vertically. With a real typewriter, unless the paper is loosened and moved, all the letters are in perfect vertical alignment. I made an image file showing the Smith certificate rotated as best I could so that the “typewriter” font text is horizontal and then overlaid it with a grid.

    Studying images like this may help determine if the document was actually typed on a typewriter, or as the pressman claims, created with computer American Typewriter font on a computer.

  2. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 20, 2011 at 12:21 am #

    Another objection was to the word “SEAL” on the raised seal. However, there are precedents to this.

  3. avatar
    obsolete March 20, 2011 at 12:50 am #

    Doc, you say:
    “The certificate and the narrative rest solely on Smith’s word, and it should be mentioned that Smith is a convicted felon.”

    It should also be mentioned that at least one of Smith’s convictions was for forgery, which cuts to the heart of the matter here.

  4. avatar
    Sean March 20, 2011 at 12:53 am #

    Try using Adobe Caslon Bold in Adobe Illustrator. I’m meeting with Howling Coyote tomorrow and he said he’d see about recreating the title heads in Illustrator or InDesign.

    Doc, just curious. What do you think the purpose of that emboss seal you have a link to since it has no official capacity for a Notary?

  5. avatar
    Expelliarmus March 20, 2011 at 2:01 am #

    FWIW, here’s Smith’s Felony conviction record out of Iowa:

    1) #023705 STATE OF IOWA VS SMITH, LUCAS DANIEL
    Felony 715.A(2) – forgery guilty 5/22/1998

    2) #144901 STATE VS LUCAS D SMITH
    Felony, forgery 715A.2(B) — Forgery – guilty plea to 3 counts – 2/28/2000

    3) #034823 STATE OF IOWA VS SMITH, LUCAS DANIEL SMITH
    Felony 714.2(2) theft, 2nd degree- guilty 5/25/2000

    4) #054329 STATE VS SMITH, LUCAS DANIEL
    Felony – 714.2(4) theft-4th degree – 4 counts guilty (srms);
    (This action also included a felony count of 715A.2(A) Forgery which was dismissed, most likely as part of a plea bargain) 12/28/2000

    5) #182543 STATE VS LUCAS D SMITH
    Felony – 714.2(3) – theft, 3rd degree — guilty 8/9/2004 (multiple counts)

    So basically there are 5 separate felony convictions, some involving multiple counts, between 1998 and 2004.

  6. avatar
    Northland10 March 20, 2011 at 7:22 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Studying images like this may help determine if the document was actually typed on a typewriter, or as the pressman claims, created with computer American Typewriter font on a computer.

    I have always considered that the form was typewritten and at closer study of the birth date (note the lines converging on the right), it could very well be a typewriter. The flaws in the word pounds might also give credence to a typewriter.

    However, the question I would have is if it is from a typewriter available, in Kenya, at that period. The spacing seems more akin to something I might find with an IBM Selectric (first introduced in July 1961) then what I could ever accomplish with an old manual typewriter (or even some electrics, without the ball).

    I will admit my inexperience on typewriter comparison so hopefully those with more experience may take up the “typeball.”

  7. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 20, 2011 at 9:15 am #

    Sean: Doc, just curious. What do you think the purpose of that emboss seal you have a link to since it has no official capacity for a Notary?

    Somebody said that the word “SEAL” on the seal was a dead giveaway that the seal was fake. However, I found a number of seals, including this notary seal, that have the word “SEAL” on them. Therefore, a counterexample exists to the assertion that the word “SEAL” on a seal means it’s fake.

    Just because the certificate is a fake doesn’t mean that everything on it is wrong.

  8. avatar
    Sean March 20, 2011 at 10:27 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Somebody said that the word “SEAL” on the seal was a dead giveaway that the seal was fake. However, I found a number of seals, including this notary seal, that have the word “SEAL” on them. Therefore, a counterexample exists to the assertion that the word “SEAL” on a seal means it’s fake.

    Just because the certificate is a fake doesn’t mean that everything on it is wrong.

    I understood what you were saying before. I was just asking your opinion outside the discussion of the Smith document what the purpose of this seal was. Anyone that’s seen their share of notary stamps knows use of this embosser carries no legal weight. Why use it?

    Just wanted to be clear my last post wasn’t an attempt at snarkiness.

  9. avatar
    Observer March 20, 2011 at 11:46 am #

    …although those were convictions for forging checks, not birth certificates…

  10. avatar
    Majority Will March 20, 2011 at 11:51 am #

    Expelliarmus:
    FWIW, here’s Smith’s Felony conviction record out of Iowa:

    1) #023705STATE OF IOWA VS SMITH, LUCAS DANIEL
    Felony 715.A(2) – forgery guilty 5/22/1998

    2)#144901STATE VS LUCAS D SMITH
    Felony, forgery 715A.2(B) — Forgery – guilty plea to 3 counts – 2/28/2000

    3) #034823STATE OF IOWA VS SMITH, LUCAS DANIELSMITH
    Felony714.2(2) theft, 2nd degree- guilty 5/25/2000

    4)#054329STATE VS SMITH, LUCAS DANIEL
    Felony – 714.2(4) theft-4th degree – 4 counts guilty (srms);
    (This action also included afelony count of715A.2(A) Forgery which was dismissed, most likely as part of a plea bargain) 12/28/2000

    5)#182543STATE VS LUCAS D SMITH
    Felony – 714.2(3)– theft, 3rd degree — guilty 8/9/2004(multiple counts)

    So basically there are 5 separate felony convictions, some involving multiple counts, between 1998 and 2004.

    A Lucas Smith story involving fraud that doesn’t add up (another credibility test):

    “You mention something about a kidney. I sold my left kidney (not to the Wilson family) in the year 2006 for $200,000. And the story about the Wilson family and their son is just that, a story. The part that the Wilson left out is that Father Wilson promised me, our deal, $200,000 cash. When the surgery date approached in 2003 he told me that the loan’ that he thought was in the works was not going to come through and that he couldn’t pay me. I then refused to give away my kidney. The Wilson’s contacted newspapers and the police. Several stories ran in the Cedar Rapids Gazette. And do you that those stories saved their son’s life (for a few years)? A woman from my hometown in Cedar Rapids Iowa was saddened by the story about fellow Iowan from Cedar Rapids (me, Lucas) attempting extort a poor family in need of a life saving kidney. This woman, Dianne something or other then gave the Wilson boy her kidney, for free, in the year 2004.”

    “In late 2002, a man from Cedar Rapids, Iowa, sent an e-mail to the family. The man, who called himself Lucas Smith, said he was 23 years old and had emigrated from Russia five years earlier. He had seen the Web site and, Smith said, he wanted to help.
    The Wilsons stopped searching for a donor. Smith passed all of the medical, physical and psychological tests. They thought he was going to save their son’s life.
    Then, on May 3, 2003, Smith sent Jim Wilson Sr. an e-mail saying he wanted to be compensated for donating his kidney.
    Wilson said they would pay his airfare, but because it was illegal to receive money for an organ donation, they wouldn’t give him any other cash.
    Five months after holding out a lifeline, Lucas Smith disappeared.
    Jim Wilson Sr. called the Cedar Rapids police.”

    http://blog.syracuse.com/news/2008/01/oswego_county_centerpiece_0116.html

  11. avatar
    Majority Will March 20, 2011 at 11:53 am #

    Observer:
    …although those were convictions for forging checks, not birth certificates…

    Considering both actions are scams for money, the two criminal acts are similar.

    Both are fraud.

  12. avatar
    Observer March 20, 2011 at 12:02 pm #

    Majority Will: Agreed. It was an attempt at irony.

  13. avatar
    misha March 20, 2011 at 12:04 pm #

    Observer: …although those were convictions for forging checks, not birth certificates…

    He’s still a grifter.

  14. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith March 20, 2011 at 12:26 pm #

    Dear gorefan,

    I read your story from yesterday that you posted on part 1 of this blog report by Dr Conspiracy.

    Your story was very funny and made me laugh!

  15. avatar
    Majority Will March 20, 2011 at 12:31 pm #

    Observer:
    Majority Will:Agreed.It was an attempt at irony.

    Well, I just replaced the batteries in my new irony meter.

    They are difficult to come by with so many exploding lately.

    Here are a few of the many reasons why:

    “Let your new blog report stand as a testament to the unethical lengths that skeptics will go to discredit the 1961 CPGH Obama birth certificate.”

    “Anonymous email, filed with nothing more than drivel and wholly unsubstantiated claims. This is an all time low.”

    “I rarely post there and the comments there are supplied mostly (more than 50%) by Obama supporters which entail fabricated evidence, half truths and more outright lies than can be found anywhere else on the Internet regarding the Obama birth certificate factor.”

    “I rest my case. I will not post again here.”

    “Don’t be a sore loser, ‘dude’.”

    “I have no respect for you.”

    “I don’t condone wife beating. ”

    “In the past I often kissed and had sex with a girl that was 14 years old (I was 24) and the girls family supported this and wanted me to marry her and become their son in law and everyone knew about it even local police.”

    “Get your story straight, provide evidence to back up your claims and please no more flip-flopping, i.e., don’t mislead the readers by saying that something is impossible and the later change your story to it’s only impossible if you use a press that cant create it. What sort of logic is that? Deal with it. Hurts a little doesn’t it?”

    – Lucas D. Smith

  16. avatar
    Sef March 20, 2011 at 12:33 pm #

    In trying to find a typewriter font for the Lucas document we must find a monospaced serif font with a “T” wherein the right serif at the top is a little bit longer than the left one. Doc, if you blow up your png to 400% and look at “WICHITA” you can see the right one is 1 pixel longer. Other instances in the doc also show it, but it is quite clear here. I have looked at ITC American Typewriter Std & Lucida Typewriter Std from Adobe Fontfolio v11 and neither exhibit this characteristic.

  17. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith March 20, 2011 at 12:36 pm #

    Majority Will: A Lucas Smith story involving fraud that doesn’t add up (another credibility test):

    “You mention something about a kidney. I sold my left kidney (not to the Wilson family) in the year 2006 for $200,000. And the story about the Wilson family and their son is just that, a story. The part that the Wilson left out is that Father Wilson promised me, our deal, $200,000 cash. When the surgery date approached in 2003 he told me that the loan’ that he thought was in the works was not going to come through and that he couldn’t pay me. I then refused to give away my kidney. The Wilson’s contacted newspapers and the police. Several stories ran in the Cedar Rapids Gazette. And do you that those stories saved their son’s life (for a few years)? A woman from my hometown in Cedar Rapids Iowa was saddened by the story about fellow Iowan from Cedar Rapids (me, Lucas) attempting extort a poor family in need of a life saving kidney. This woman, Dianne something or other then gave the Wilson boy her kidney, for free, in the year 2004.”

    “In late 2002, a man from Cedar Rapids, Iowa, sent an e-mail to the family. The man, who called himself Lucas Smith, said he was 23 years old and had emigrated from Russia five years earlier. He had seen the Web site and, Smith said, he wanted to help.
    The Wilsons stopped searching for a donor. Smith passed all of the medical, physical and psychological tests. They thought he was going to save their son’s life.
    Then, on May 3, 2003, Smith sent Jim Wilson Sr. an e-mail saying he wanted to be compensated for donating his kidney.
    Wilson said they would pay his airfare, but because it was illegal to receive money for an organ donation, they wouldn’t give him any other cash.
    Five months after holding out a lifeline, Lucas Smith disappeared.
    Jim Wilson Sr. called the Cedar Rapids police.”

    http://blog.syracuse.com/news/2008/01/oswego_county_centerpiece_0116.html

    You pretend, or you don’t comprehend, that I haven’t already explained this here and MANY different places online.

    The WIisons are the ones that ‘told a story’.

    I was never arrested for anything related to their ‘story’. The Cedar Rapids Police, FBI and USDOJ all investigated the WIlson’s claims. Throughout their respective investigations they found the WIlson’s story to be full of holes are oddities.

    Once again, father WIlson and I had a deal. But when his ‘loan’ didn’t come through for him he couldn’t pay me. I wasn’t going to give my kidney away for free so I walked.

    One thing great about the Wilson’s 2003-2004 ‘story’ is that the story did accomplish something extraordinary….A WOMAN IN CEDAR RAPIDS READ THE STORY about the WIlsons and I (Lucas). She felt so bad about it that she gave the WIlson boy her own kidney, for free!

    I have always been happy about the final outcome of that account. The young (19 old) Wilson boy was given a few more years of life via a new kidney!

    If it hadn’t had been for me that boy would have continued waiting on the list for a kidney and probably would have dies before he did.

  18. avatar
    Sef March 20, 2011 at 12:43 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: One thing great about the Wilson’s 2003-2004 story’ is that the story did accomplish something extraordinary….A WOMAN IN CEDAR RAPIDS READ THE STORY about the WIlsons and I (Lucas). She felt so bad about it that she gave the WIlson boy her own kidney, for free!

    I have always been happy about the final outcome of that account. The young (19 old) Wilson boy was given a few more years of life via a new kidney!

    If it hadn’t had been for me that boy would have continued waiting on the list for a kidney and probably would have dies before he did.

    This sounds something like the following: A guy robs a family so they don’t have money to take a trip to NYC in Sep, 2001. They were planning to have a meal in the WTC restaurant on 9/11. So the robber feels good and thinks everyone should pat him on the back for saving the family from the horrors of 9/11.

  19. avatar
    gorefan March 20, 2011 at 12:55 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Your story was very funny and made me laugh!

    Thank you. I have the same reaction to your stories.

  20. avatar
    Sef March 20, 2011 at 1:04 pm #

    Instead of Caslon I suggest Garamond be explored. It has the “T” characteristic I mentioned earlier & is very similar to Caslon.

  21. avatar
    Joey March 20, 2011 at 1:14 pm #

    From the previous Lucas Smith Thread:
    “I looked up the article. I didn’t see that Okubu ever mentioned Obama or his COLB. I’m getting the sense that it’s been mentioned before, but my contention is that you’ll never satisfy the doubters. It’s probably impossible to authenticate a document simply based on an image on the web. It might be more convincing to some if the Dept of Health printed one up and hosted a scan on their website, but many doubt the official statements of the Director of Health. I’m guessing that state law would probably prevent them from doing so.

    http://archives.starbulletin.com/content/20090606_kokua_line

    I’d also point out that Hawaii’s constant minor changes (colors, seals, borders, title) to their forms/equipment make for some interesting fodder for the birthers. That article you referenced was from 2009, which was after Hawaii changed the title of the COLB to “Certificate of Live Birth” with few changes to the format.”

    Here is the statement in the Okubo interview that I was referring to. Ms. Okubo’s response is made in direct rely to a question about the validity of Barack Obama’s COLB:
    “The issue of what constitutes an official Hawaii birth certificate received national attention during last year’s presidential campaign. Those who doubted Barack Obama’s American citizenship called the copy of the Hawaii birth document posted on his campaign Web site a fake.
    Asked about that document, Okubo said, ‘This is the same certified copy everyone receives when they request a birth certificate.'”

    If that isn’t a state of Hawai’i confirmation of Barack Hussein Obama II’s Certitication of Live Birth, then I don’t know what it.

  22. avatar
    Scientist March 20, 2011 at 1:14 pm #

    Sef: This sounds something like the following: A guy robs a family so they don’t have money to take a trip to NYC in Sep, 2001. They were planning to have a meal in the WTC restaurant on 9/11. So the robber feels good and thinks everyone should pat him on the back for saving the family from the horrors of 9/11.

    Great!!!

  23. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith March 20, 2011 at 1:25 pm #

    Dear Sean,

    You commented yesterday on part 1 of this blog report by Dr Conspiracy and you asked:

    “Is it fair to say the Smith document has not had this level of scrutiny before?”

    Sean, it’s overtly, and conspicuously, obvious and apparent that you are very new to all of this.

    The 1961 CPGH Obama bc has been talked about and hotly debated about for the last two years. Online debate started back in June of 2009.

    WND daily called it a forgery and used their junk science by pseudo scholar Jerome Corsi to support their claims.

    Freerepublic.com banned me (‘zotted’ by Jim Robinson).

    My youtube INSPECTORSMITH profile comments section currently has about 16,000 comments on it (try to find another youtube profile with that number of comments, that’s not video comments, that’s profile comments). For the first several months I engaged skeptics and also the Obots in heated debated nearly everyday and I did not delete any of it (no censorship).

    My youtube profile page has evolved into a forum now where we share ideas, thoughts, news, litigation, and new legal strategies. (all of it is pertains to or is related to Obama’s lack of eligibility.

    You and your supposed pressman friend are very strange. I don’t say that as an insult. I say it because if any other experienced pressman looks at the 1961 CPGH Obama bc they will tell you that of course that document could have been created in 1960. They are nearly insulted when you questions talented men of the past and their trade. It’s nonsense and farcical to imply that the document was not possible on and offset press in 1960 or letterpress with custom blocks (not hard to create as you claim it is).

    It appears that you are not only a newbie on the 1961 CPGH Obama bc debates (which have set records in heated debated and has resulted in people being banned from various websites for just MENTIONING my name or the 1961 CPGH Obama bc is a semi-positive or objective manner) but that you also don’t have much of any understanding of the history your own, or your friends’, trade (so you claim).

    By the way, I read some of your comments where you’ve talked about what was possible in Mombasa or Kenya in the 1950s and 1960s such as a new typewriter or new ribbon. How do you or your friend know about that stuff in Mombasa? Seems strange and almost entirely subjective. Or did you visit their as a baby? It seems that you know a lot of Kenyan money, ‘dollars’ and all? You are quite the old history buff.

    I can’t wait until we get to talk about The Colony of Hong Kong and also more about birth certificates from Inida (which by the way I haven’t heard another word from anyone here about that one…?).

    Perhaps you know about ribbons in Hong Kong too? Local bird populations and average day light hours and whether or not the women shave the underarms with a single blade or a double blade in 1950 Hong Kong? I see it coming now, double blades weren’t available in in 1950 Hong Kong because we all know that those people were using blades left over from the great purge of 1912, yes, yes, I stand corrected Sean, your so categorically clever (you are probably like one of those prison pressman guys that can make a knife out of potato) , no double blades, just impossible it was.

    You probably saw a few scans of those old blades too now didn’t you, Sean? Of course, yes I know, it was quite common for those little women from Hong Kong from the 50’s to save their used shaving blades that were to been given as a wedding gift to their great-grand-nieces. Of course, every pressman know that. Yes, yes, of course.
    We’ll just track down a few PDF scans of those blades. Oh yes, forgive, you already have? Carry on, Sir, please do. Oh, you say that those blades appears to be digital in format? Yes, I see that those blurry Hong Kong female underarm blades appear to be very digital in format. You are right, there is just no what that those blades could have been created by sharping rough shims of metal with a smooth stones and rocks on the shores of the sea. Of course, Sean, yes, yes, we all know that that was standard procedure from manufacturing razor blades in 1950 Hong Kong.

    What’s next, Sean? What about the baby footprint on the 1961 CPGH bc? Is that a real foot? Must have been impossible to create on a letterpress, huh? And, yeah, offset presses were only used on the island of Saipan in 1960, right? You know all about Saipan don’t you? Used to have some old pressman friends (double agents for the old MI5, right?) stationed over there in Saipan pretending to work the sweatshops where the local printing was done?

    Tell me more, Sean.

  24. avatar
    Sef March 20, 2011 at 1:33 pm #

    “Lucas Smith” does not sound much like a Russian name.

  25. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith March 20, 2011 at 1:45 pm #

    Sef:
    “Lucas Smith” does not sound much like a Russian name.

    I agree, it doesn’t. That’s another of the oddities of the Wilson story. I never told the Wilson’s (or anyone at the hospitals when I’d already went for testing a few times) that I was from Russia.

    The ‘Russian’ part was invented by the Wilsons, for whatever reason.

  26. avatar
    MA March 20, 2011 at 1:45 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: My youtube INSPECTORSMITH profile comments section currently has about 16,000 comments on it

    Your not understanding that you’ve been beaten means nothing.

    more about birth certificates from Inida (which by the way I haven’t heard another word from anyone here about that one…?).

    “Additional Information for India

    Registration of birth (reporting birth) was voluntary prior to 1970. However, even after 1970, many people didn’t register the birth as there was no strict enforcement.

    A birth certificate can be obtained at local municipal or village authorities […] that are maintained under the state laws.”

    http://www.immihelp.com/birth-certificate/birth-certificate-tips-india.html

    It is the family’s responsibility to register births. The item you showed is evidence given to the parents who are to register the birth.

  27. avatar
    MA March 20, 2011 at 1:49 pm #

    From the part 1 thread which suddenly wouldn’t allow my posts:

    gorefan: This explains the lack of child name,

    http://www.immihelp.com/birth-certificate/name-issues.html#no-name-birth-certificate

    “It is a religious custom in India not to name the child immediately after birth. Therefore, hospital records and/or birth records may not show the name of the child, even if the birth was reported and registered.”

    But there is not even a PLACE for the child’s name.

    There is no way that thing is a BC. It is evidence for the parents to take to the govt. to register the birth.

  28. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith March 20, 2011 at 1:53 pm #

    .

    Dr Conspiracy,

    Your new blog report is more objective than the first. That’s good.

    Btw, I didn’t read anymore from you (or anyone that posts here) about the birth certificate from India other than your initial to the effect that birth certificate is very strange and that a birth certificate without the child’s name would sort of be worthless (not here on your blog but rather to the child and their family) and also because the birth certificate doesn’t use specific language as to where (in the hospital or such) the baby was really born.

    If you could, if time and appeal permits, comment further because I did post more after you last post about it. I stated that that sort of birth certificate was (maybe still is?) common in India and that there are stories online about the trouble that people from India have had when presenting their birth certificates in the USA (or when trying to gain physical access the the USA).

  29. avatar
    Sef March 20, 2011 at 1:57 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: The Russian’ part was invented by the Wilsons, for whatever reason.

    If they have an e-mail from you why would they “invent” this? Makes about as much sense as the rest of your schemes. Maybe now you see why grifters get caught. Their stories become too complex for reality.

  30. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith March 20, 2011 at 2:04 pm #

    MA:
    From the part 1 thread which suddenly wouldn’t allow my posts:

    But there is not even a PLACE for the child’s name.

    There is no way that thing is a BC. It is evidence for the parents to take to the govt. to register the birth.

    Of course it’s probably a custom (different culture). THIS PROVES MY POINT.

    Things aren’t the same everywhere in he world as they are here in the USA.

    Most of you people that post on this blog are atypical (euphemism). When you find the answer you don’t understand what the answer in really answering.

    I wouldn’t recommend that most people on this blog ever take a job as an analyst or research assistant.

    LOL. Now you people claims that the India birth document is something like a precursor to a birth certificate and, in turn, not a real birth record. Are you people practicing to be a future flank of birthers? The India birth certificate is not good enough for you? You need something with more data on it??

    Ha!

  31. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith March 20, 2011 at 2:06 pm #

    Sef: If they have an e-mail from you why would they “invent” this?Makes about as much sense as the rest of your schemes. Maybe now you see why grifters get caught.Their stories become too complex for reality.

    Who said anything about an email stating that I was from ‘Russia’?

    Why are you inventing things now? Please cite a source that says an EMAIL was written in which I said I was from ‘Russia’?

    Lol. Think before you write.

  32. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 20, 2011 at 2:06 pm #

    Sef: Instead of Caslon I suggest Garamond be explored. It has the “T” characteristic I mentioned earlier & is very similar to Caslon.

    Sef, you might have hit on something. I was able to easily duplicate the “ny” in Microsoft Word. The serif’s on the “T” rise above the cross bar of the “T” on the Smith certificate and my Garamond sample, but not Caslon. Also the “K” in “Kenya” looks more like Garamond.

  33. avatar
    MA March 20, 2011 at 2:08 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: stories online about the trouble that people from India have had when presenting their birth certificates in the USA (or when trying to gain physical access the the USA).

    Of course! Those stories are of people thinking that is a birth certificate when it is not. Just like the stories of Americans trying to use their hospital keepsake “footie” birth certificate for official purposes.

    There is no way a birth certificate would not even have a place for a name.

    Article – 7; 1989 United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC)
    “The child shall be registered immediately after birth and shall have the right from birth to a name…”

    http://www.ilpnet.org/news/BRWorkshop/BirthRegistration_Background.pdf

  34. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 20, 2011 at 2:10 pm #

    Sean: Anyone that’s seen their share of notary stamps knows use of this embosser carries no legal weight. Why use it?

    I generally expect to see a seal on a certified copy of a birth certificate, which is what Smith claims this is.

  35. avatar
    Sef March 20, 2011 at 2:13 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Who said anything about an email stating that I was from Russia’?

    Why are you inventing things now?Please cite a source that says an EMAIL was written in which I said I was from Russia’?

    Lol.Think before you write.

    Maybe you are not aware of how to use Ctrl-F on a displayed web page. You should try it some time.

  36. avatar
    MA March 20, 2011 at 2:15 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: The India birth certificate is not good enough for you? You need something with more data on it??

    There is NO POINT in a “birth certificate” without the child’s name.

    There is no point in registering a birth (which is the main purpose for birth certificates) without a NAME.

  37. avatar
    gorefan March 20, 2011 at 2:21 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: I didn’t read anymore from you (or anyone that posts here) about the birth certificate from India other than your initial to the effect that birth certificate is very strange and that a birth certificate without the child’s name would sort of be worthless

    I posted on the other blog.

    gorefan March 19, 2011 at 6:30 pm #

    This may explain why the certificate looks so strange.

    http://www.immihelp.com/birth-certificate/birth-certificate-tips-india.html

    Under the section “Additional Information For India”

    “There is no standard or uniform certificate issued by the authorities. Therefore you may see variation in birth formats, at least from one state to another.”

    This explains the lack of child name,

    http://www.immihelp.com/birth-certificate/name-issues.html#no-name-birth-certificate

    “It is a religious custom in India not to name the child immediately after birth. Therefore, hospital records and/or birth records may not show the name of the child, even if the birth was reported and registered.”

    One again Lucas produces the odd example, and claims that is the standard. He presents no evidence that the same situation existed in Kenya. It’s the typical misdirection seen in many magic tricks or con games.

  38. avatar
    Lil' Red March 20, 2011 at 2:21 pm #

    “In late 2002, a man from Cedar Rapids, Iowa, sent an e-mail to the family. The man, who called himself Lucas Smith, said he was 23 years old and had emigrated from Russia five years earlier. He had seen the Web site and, Smith said, he wanted to help.

    The Wilsons stopped searching for a donor. Smith passed all of the medical, physical and psychological tests. They thought he was going to save their son’s life.

    Then, on May 3, 2003, Smith sent Jim Wilson Sr. an e-mail saying he wanted to be compensated for donating his kidney.

    Wilson said they would pay his airfare, but because it was illegal to receive money for an organ donation, they wouldn’t give him any other cash.

    Five months after holding out a lifeline, Lucas Smith disappeared.

    Jim Wilson Sr. called the Cedar Rapids police.”

    http://blog.syracuse.com/news/2008/01/oswego_county_centerpiece_0116.html

  39. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 20, 2011 at 2:25 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Dr Conspiracy,

    Your new blog report is more objective than the first.That’s good.

    Btw, I didn’t read anymore from you (or anyone that posts here) about the birth certificate from India other than your initial to the effect that birth certificate is very strange and that a birth certificate without the child’s name would sort of be worthless (not here on your blog but rather to the child and their family) and also because the birth certificate doesn’t use specific language as to where (in the hospital or such) the baby was really born.

    If you could, if time and appeal permits, comment further because I did post more after you last post about it.I stated that that sort of birth certificate was (maybe still is?) common in India and that there are stories online about the trouble that people from India have had when presenting their birth certificates in the USA (or when trying to gain physical access the the USA).

    Mary Adams commented on it, but for some unknown reason her comments were caught in the spam filter. They’re visible now.

    The Indian hospital certificate is “strange duck” to me. In my US experience, hospitals report births to governments. This appears not to be the case in India.

    Your Kenyan document, however, being stamped and sealed appears to be intended to have some measure of authority and to be used by itself apart from government registration. In that case, the absence of all the information related to the certification (and this to include the name and signature of the informant) makes the certification of the information on the form incomplete.

    We know that state-registered births in Kenya from around this time did have the informant name and signature. Other parts of the registration process are unknown and this is what I am researching currently.

  40. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith March 20, 2011 at 2:30 pm #

    Lil' Red:
    “In late 2002, a man from Cedar Rapids, Iowa, sent an e-mail to the family. The man, who called himself Lucas Smith, said he was 23 years old and had emigrated from Russia five years earlier. He had seen the Web site and, Smith said, he wanted to help.

    The Wilsons stopped searching for a donor. Smith passed all of the medical, physical and psychological tests. They thought he was going to save their son’s life.

    Then, on May 3, 2003, Smith sent Jim Wilson Sr. an e-mail saying he wanted to be compensated for donating his kidney.

    Wilson said they would pay his airfare, but because it was illegal to receive money for an organ donation, they wouldn’t give him any other cash.

    Five months after holding out a lifeline, Lucas Smith disappeared.

    Jim Wilson Sr. called the Cedar Rapids police.”

    http://blog.syracuse.com/news/2008/01/oswego_county_centerpiece_0116.html

    The language used does NOT say that it was stated in the email.

    Please be impartial and stop BENDING evidence to fit the outcome that you prefer.

    Yeah, I’m really going to pass as a Russian that has only been in the country 5 years now. Yeah, guy names Lucas Smith, no Russian accent, no Russian family, yeah, I’m sure that the hospital transplant coordinator would have loved that.

    Think before you come up with crazy theories.

  41. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith March 20, 2011 at 2:32 pm #

    gorefan: I posted on the other blog.

    gorefan March 19, 2011 at 6:30 pm #

    This may explain why the certificate looks so strange.

    http://www.immihelp.com/birth-certificate/birth-certificate-tips-india.html

    Under the section “Additional Information For India”

    “There is no standard or uniform certificate issued by the authorities. Therefore you may see variation in birth formats, at least from one state to another.”

    This explains the lack of child name,

    http://www.immihelp.com/birth-certificate/name-issues.html#no-name-birth-certificate

    “It is a religious custom in India not to name the child immediately after birth. Therefore, hospital records and/or birth records may not show the name of the child, even if the birth was reported and registered.”

    One again Lucas produces the odd example, and claims that is the standard. He presents no evidence that the same situation existed in Kenya. It’s the typical misdirection seen in many magic tricks or con games.

    Thank you for proving my point once again. You people are great at proving me right! Thank you.

  42. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 20, 2011 at 2:34 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Your new blog report is more objective than the first. That’s good.

    Don’t get me wrong. Barack Obama was born in Hawaii and there is no reasonable doubts about that fact; therefore, the birth certificate you presented is a fake.

    The only question as far as I am concerned is how good or bad a fake it is. My first detailed look at the document in 2009 led me to think it was a bad fake. However, there is always the risk of confirmation bias, so I am trying to weigh each objection again objectively.

    I mean, look how folks jumped on the “E. F. Lavender” and the “47o44″ artifacts on the Bomford certificate as evidence of a hoax, when in fact neither of those was intentional punking on the part of the hoaxer.

  43. avatar
    Scientist March 20, 2011 at 2:35 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Think before you come up with crazy theories.

    You mean like an 18 year old American woman travelling 11,000 miles to have a baby in a Third World country in the midst of an independence struggle where she didn’t know a soul and then rushing home with the baby to start school?

  44. avatar
    Sef March 20, 2011 at 2:36 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Yeah, I’m really going to pass as a Russian that has only been in the country 5 years now. Yeah, guy names Lucas Smith, no Russian accent, no Russian family, yeah, I’m sure that the hospital transplant coordinator would have loved that.

    Were you able to pass as a Kenyan in Mombasa?

  45. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith March 20, 2011 at 2:37 pm #

    Sef: Maybe you are not aware of how to use Ctrl-F on a displayed web page. You should try it some time.

    No, maybe you should first find a news article that ‘quotes’ an email in which I state that I emigrated from Russian five years earlier. Then I’ll look at it.

    Stop bending the facts.

  46. avatar
    Sef March 20, 2011 at 2:42 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: No, maybe you should first find a news article that quotes’ an email in which I state that I emigrated from Russian five years earlier. Then I’ll look at it.

    Stop bending the facts.

    So did you bribe the guy at the airport with 10 $3 bills or 1 $30 bill?

  47. avatar
    Sef March 20, 2011 at 2:47 pm #

    Sef: So did you bribe the guy at the airport with 10 $3 bills or 1 $30 bill?

    Another question. Did you use offset lithography to print the $5000 you used as the bribe in Kenya?

  48. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith March 20, 2011 at 2:49 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Don’t get me wrong. Barack Obama was born in Hawaii and there is no reasonable doubts about that fact; therefore, the birth certificate you presented is a fake.

    The only question as far as I am concerned is how good or bad a fake it is. My first detailed look at the document in 2009 led me to think it was a bad fake. However, there is always the risk of confirmation bias, so I am trying to weigh each objection again objectively.

    I mean, look how folks jumped on the “E. F. Lavender” and the “47o44‘ artifacts on the Bomford certificate as evidence of a hoax, when in fact neither of those was intentional punking on the part of the hoaxer.

    I understand. I’m not implying that I am bring you over from the dark side.

    I’m just stating that your new blog report is more objective. which is the way that all research should be conducted, regardless if these researcher is looking (or not) for specific outcome.

    For example, let’s say I want to discredit accounts and lore of Mokele Mbembe, I can’t ONLY of JUST focus on the more wild and unbelievable aspects or Nazi-reporters that have claimed to have cracked the case. I have too thoroughly review all of the evidence and also conduct some of my own field work, not just sit behind a computer and look at evidence that other people have uploaded (or kept hidden).

    In any event, my comment was not intended to imply that Doc Conspiracy was starting to have doubts about a Hawaiian birth. It was only a comment about the approach or method of objective (or at least semi-objective) research.

  49. avatar
    gorefan March 20, 2011 at 2:49 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Thank you for proving my point once again. You people are great at proving me right! Thank you.

    Sure, if your point is that the President was born in India. Other then that, your India example, is meaningless misdirection.

  50. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith March 20, 2011 at 2:52 pm #

    Sef: Another question. Did you use offset lithography to print the $5000 you used as the bribe in Kenya?

    I don’t recommend or condone, in any shape or form, the counterfeiting money or birth certificates.

  51. avatar
    Sef March 20, 2011 at 2:54 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: I don’t recommend or condone, in any shape or form, the counterfeiting money or birth certificates.

    It’s a good thing that the container ship with all the irony meters was able to leave Japan before the earthquake/tsunami. We should be set for awhile.

  52. avatar
    Sef March 20, 2011 at 3:02 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: I don’t recommend or condone, in any shape or form, the counterfeiting money or birth certificates.

    Since it is quite obvious that the CPGH doc is a forgery, you either created it, or are complicit in its presentation. Which is it? What felony do you want to be charged with?

  53. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 20, 2011 at 3:05 pm #

    Sef:
    In trying to find a typewriter font for the Lucas document we must find a monospaced serif font with a “T” wherein the right serif at the top is a little bit longer than the left one.Doc, if you blow up your png to 400% and look at “WICHITA” you can see the right one is 1 pixel longer.Other instances in the doc also show it, but it is quite clear here. I have looked at ITC American Typewriter Std & Lucida Typewriter Std from Adobe Fontfolio v11 and neither exhibit this characteristic.

    The easiest way to do a realistic typewriter font is with a typewriter, and those are not hard to come by. I have thousands of fonts around here; maybe I’ll have time to look for something.

  54. avatar
    gorefan March 20, 2011 at 3:15 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The only question as far as I am concerned is how good or bad a fake it is.

    If I wanted to create a fake BC that was as authentic as possible. And I knew something about printing, I would make my own certificate by creating my own letterpress (instructons are on the net) and get an old typewritter (also available on the net) and build a BC from scratch.

    One thing Smith has yet to address on this forum is why the wrong date format.

  55. avatar
    G March 20, 2011 at 3:19 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: For example, let’s say I want to discredit accounts and lore of Mokele Mbembe, I can’t ONLY of JUST focus on the more wild and unbelievable aspects or Nazi-reporters that have claimed to have cracked the case. I have too thoroughly review all of the evidence and also conduct some of my own field work, not just sit behind a computer and look at evidence that other people have uploaded (or kept hidden).

    I would be much more interested to read your accounts on that topic. Do you have a link where you’ve collected & posted your accounts and findings on Mokele-Mbembe?

  56. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 20, 2011 at 3:23 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: In any event, my comment was not intended to imply that Doc Conspiracy was starting to have doubts about a Hawaiian birth. It was only a comment about the approach or method of objective (or at least semi-objective) research.

    One of the failures modes of objective research is the rush to judgment. What we do here is provide facts and send up speculative trial balloons. I’m keeping track of what balloons have been punctured and which are still floating and I’m in no hurry.

  57. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith March 20, 2011 at 3:35 pm #

    G: I would be much more interested to read your accounts on that topic.Do you have a link where you’ve collected & posted your accounts and findings on Mokele-Mbembe?

    I plan to publish a book on Mokele Mbembe. I have also written other books. One of my books is about Sleep Paralysis (true story, as well).

  58. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 20, 2011 at 3:35 pm #

    To assist in research, I have extracted the image of the Smith certificate from the Court PDF into a jpg having a resolution of 1700 x 2238. This makes it easier to read, for example, the “stamp” in the upper left, which says:

    HELTON MAGANGA
    CHIEF ADMINISTRATOR
    COAST PROVINCE GENERAL
    HOSPITAL
    CHIEFADMIN@CPGH.CO.KE
    41-2222148

    The email address is correct, according to published sources. The last is a phone number belonging to the Coast Province General Hospital.

  59. avatar
    MA March 20, 2011 at 3:36 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: In my US experience, hospitals report births to governments. This appears not to be the case in India.

    It looks like it varies from state to state. Here’s a link to look up how to obtain a bc in different states: http://india.gov.in/howdo/howdoi.php

    Frustratingly, the state of Madhya Pradesh (where the hospital that “birth certificate” came from is located) isn’t listed!?!

    But here’s what Arunachal Pradesh says:

    “Procedure

    – The parent or informer has to report to the nearest Birth and Death Registration Office.

    – On delivery at Hospital/ Health Centre, the same should be reported enclosing Medical Certificate within 1 year. Beyond 1 year registration is done on submission of affidavit.

    – On delivery at Home, same should be reported through application on a plain paper within 1 month of birth of the child. Beyond 1 month registration is done on submission of affidavit.

    Necessary documents/papers

    – Form No 1 ? Birth Report

    – Medical Certificate for delivery at Hospital or Health Centre. Plain application for delivery at home.”

    Whereas Andhra Pradesh says:

    “Procedure

    Normally the dispensaries or hospitals where the birth takes place maintain a register and the same is sent to the local bodies at regular intervals. Once it reaches the Municipality or MRO, the concerned citizen has to approach the authority and apply for the certificate on any working day.
    Necessary Documents/Papers

    If the birth takes place at a dispensary/hospital, the register record is enough. If the birth takes place at a house, the citizen has to approach the local body and inform in writing. Then it will be verified & the certificate will be issued. The application is to be made in the prescribed format of Form 2.”

  60. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith March 20, 2011 at 3:45 pm #

    gorefan: If I wanted to create a fake BC that was as authentic as possible.And I knew something about printing, I would make my own certificate by creating my own letterpress (instructons are on the net) and get an old typewritter (also available on the net) and build a BC from scratch.

    One thing Smith has yet to address on this forum is why the wrong date format.

    I don’t believe that the date format is wrong. I’m sort of tired of explaining this to very tom and dick that hasn’t read my other posts on other websites. I’ll post some crap here later on about date format.

    Btw…

    I can also tell you that yesterday I was going to send some money to Africa (to my friends) and I was looking at the MoneyGram send form. I saw something that I don’t think I have ever seen in the USA before. You guys (and ladies) here on Doc Conspiracy’s blog will probably think that it is a forgery but it is a real form that I am going to scan into Adobe Acrobat 9.

    The SEND Moneygram form asks for the date at the bottom of the form. There are eight (8) segments in the block in which you fill out the date. Do you know what it said in the blocks??? It read: D/D/M/M/Y/Y/Y/Y.

    Must be a forgery, huh? (And no, this wasn’t some bilingual block below an English block. There was only one block, with one format listed.)

  61. avatar
    Sean March 20, 2011 at 3:47 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: They are nearly insulted when you questions talented men of the past and their trade.

    I really must’ve struck a nerve for you to write such a lengthy post to retort one sentence. I’ve been following the Birther conspiracies conservatively for a year and a half. I’ve actually contributed ideas for stories here on obamaconspiracy.org which became articles.

    There was discussion of your document here in the past, but this is a title wave. But I give you some credit for that, because folks got to bring the document’s discrepancies to you. But it has given regulars here a fresh new look at the forgery. But to my surprise, it wasn’t the document itself, it was the story of how it was obtained.

    You said “They are nearly insulted when you questions talented men of the past and their trade.” Yet neither me or my pressman friend have done such a thing. This is a common con man logical fallacy: appeal to emotion. We’re questioning the Lucas Smith fake Kenyan birth certificate, not some nameless tradesmen.

  62. avatar
    G March 20, 2011 at 3:49 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: I plan to publish a book on Mokele Mbembe. I have also written other books. One of my books is about Sleep Paralysis (true story, as well).

    Do you have a goal for when you plan to have that published?

    In the meantime, are there any links you could provide on Mokele Mbembe that reflect your views on the cryptid(s) of that region of the world? What started your interest? Have you ever contacted any of the members of the documented teams that went out there?

    I enjoy cryptozoology. That doesn’t mean I buy into many of the myths or theories that float out there and that arena sure has its share of serious eccentrics as well as kooky cons. I do feel it is worthwhile to listen to indiginous populations and look at their accounts of creatures and that can still lead to interesting real world discoveries. One of the biggest benefits is a lot of “accidental” discoveries happen along the way when groups go looking to explore one thing and document everything they come across in the process. I think there is a lot about that process that is fascinating, when conducted in a serious and scientific manner.

  63. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith March 20, 2011 at 3:50 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: 41-2222148

    Doc, you might want to call the listed telephone number (41-2222148) that is on the 1961 CPGH Obama bc if you want to see if it is real.

    You’ll probably get a lady that says, “Coast General Hospital”. After that you probably wont understand her English and she will probably not understand your English either.

  64. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith March 20, 2011 at 4:35 pm #

    Sean: I really must’ve struck a nerve for you to write such a lengthy post to retort one sentence. I’ve been following the Birther conspiracies conservatively for a year and a half. I’ve actually contributed ideas for stories here on obamaconspiracy.org which became articles.

    There was discussion of your document here in the past, but this is a title wave. But I give you some credit for that, because folks got to bring the document’s discrepancies to you. But it has given regulars here a fresh new look at the forgery. But to my surprise, it wasn’t the document itself, it was the story of how it was obtained.

    You said “They are nearly insulted when you questions talented men of the past and their trade.” Yet neither me or my pressman friend have done such a thing. This is a common con man logical fallacy: appeal to emotion. We’re questioning the Lucas Smith fake Kenyan birth certificate, not some nameless tradesmen.

    Everything you said was strange.

    1. For one, I am known for writing long and windy rants that include and reference all sorts of fascinating data from a variety of esoteric subjects that I studies in university.

    2. When I stated, “They are nearly insulted when you questions talented men of the past and their trade.” I obviously WASNT referring to you and your buddy when use the word “they”. Thanks for taking my statement totally out of context. My best advise to you is to read slowly enough that you can comprehend what the writer is saying, rather then freaking out throwing your Vodka and Sprite across the room and snatching the keyboard up and writing the first piece of hodgepodge junk science and poor excuse for a slick comeback.

    3. The 1961 CPGH bc has dbeen talked about all over the internet for going on two years now. 1961 CPGH Obama bc ebates have been among the most heat and controversial most of any birther related topic. I’m banned for life from FreeRepublic.com and so are good many others for just mentioning my name there. WND has covered this and so has about every other eligibility related website, both supporter and skeptic. I was in the witness room in Judge Carter’s courtroom in 2009 waiting to testify under oath in open Court regarding the 1961 CPGH Obama and how I obtained it but the USDOJ refused to allow this even though the Judge (Carter) pushed it to happen. I crafted a July 4th, 2010 letter to every member of US Congress and had each letter individually notarized and then sent each letter via USPS Certified Mail. Before I sent those letters off I scanned everything into a near 4000 page PDF which is no online for everyone to see. I’ve worked with many of the eligibility attorneys (some of them behind the scenes). Also a youtube forum where I have roundly dueled with skeptics and left a record of it with thousands of comments. Members of various State Congresses or General Assemblies know of my name and have often made indirect and subtle comments regarding the 1961 CPGH bc.

    For you, Sean, to now feign ignorance (or more likely not feigning but just honest ignorance) by asking people on this new blog report, part 1 and now 2) by Dr. Con. the question of “Is it fair to say the Smith document has not had this level of scrutiny before?” proves that you aren’t very familiar, at all, with claims of Barack Obama’s foreign birth.

    Btw, Sean, you don’t have to feel obligated to return with a slick comment and inept attempt at one-uping me. It makes you look childish.

    And thanks for admitting that you are not just some guy that happened to notice the ‘kerning’ on the document but rather a, as you claim, a person that is very impartial as you have been submitting data to Doc Conspiracy for some longer amount of time. Also, as you claim now (most recent) it was my story that thought smelled funny and not the document itself.

    I would have more respect for you if you’d slop flip-flopping and have a little backbone and stop changing your story. You might take a lesson from myself, if I can say that without being labeled as being conceded. My account of the events has never wavered. In 2009 I told my account to many different groups of people, even before the infamous eBay auctions. My testament stands as it stood then, without a single deviation.

    In closing, Sean (do you like to hear you name?), I also must point out that I believe it is possible that you suffer from “megalomania”. Well, I’m sure that guy of your stature has probably no idea of what the significance (meaning) of such a word is but I help you out with it. It sort of implies that you have illusions of being more important than you really are. Do you live with your mum (or do you term it as she lives with you)?

    Bye.

  65. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith March 20, 2011 at 4:37 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: One of the failures modes of objective research is the rush to judgment. What we do here is provide facts and send up speculative trial balloons. I’m keeping track of what balloons have been punctured and which are still floating and I’m in no hurry.

    I agree 100%.

  66. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith March 20, 2011 at 4:51 pm #

    G: Do you have a goal for when you plan to have that published?

    In the meantime, are there any links you could provide on Mokele Mbembe that reflect your views on the cryptid(s) of that region of the world?What started your interest?Have you ever contacted any of the members of the documented teams that went out there?

    I enjoy cryptozoology.That doesn’t mean I buy into many of the myths or theories that float out there and that arena sure has its share of serious eccentrics as well as kooky cons.I do feel it is worthwhile to listen to indiginous populations and look at their accounts of creatures and that can still lead to interesting real world discoveries.One of the biggest benefits is a lot of “accidental” discoveries happen along the way when groups go looking to explore one thing and document everything they come across in the process.I think there is a lot about that process that is fascinating, when conducted in a serious and scientific manner.

    Hi G,

    My plan for publishing the book on Mokele Mbembe (and also another books on Sleep Paralysis) is to first publish a book on Obama’s birth in Kenya. After that it will be much easier to get my Mbembe and Sleep Paralysis books published, and to a larger number of customers (readers).

    You are very much correct when you state that during the course of looking for hidden animal (cryptozoology) other discoveries can be made that are just as important (if not more important). Cures for diseases, discovery of new flora & fauna, and cultural and anthropological finds and scores of other scientific data.

    Myself, I consider my find of Barack Obama’s 1961 CPGH birth certificate to be a spectacular inadvertent discovery!

    PS- I became interested in Mokele Mbembe when I was much younger. I love Africa.

  67. avatar
    Sean March 20, 2011 at 4:53 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I mean, look how folks jumped on the “E. F. Lavender” and the “47o44‘ artifacts on the Bomford certificate as evidence of a hoax, when in fact neither of those was intentional punking on the part of the hoaxer.

    How was 47o44 shown to be unintentional?

  68. avatar
    Sean March 20, 2011 at 4:57 pm #

    gorefan: If I wanted to create a fake BC that was as authentic as possible.And I knew something about printing, I would make my own certificate by creating my own letterpress (instructons are on the net) and get an old typewritter (also available on the net) and build a BC from scratch.

    One thing Smith has yet to address on this forum is why the wrong date format.

    If it’s up for physical document inspection, don’t forget the age of the paper and ink. That’s what killed the Hitler Diaries.

  69. avatar
    G March 20, 2011 at 5:04 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Hi G,My plan for publishing the book on Mokele Mbembe (and also another books on Sleep Paralysis) is to first publish a book on Obama’s birth in Kenya. After that it will be much easier to get my Mbembe and Sleep Paralysis books published, and to a larger number of customers (readers).You are very much correct when you state that during the course of looking for hidden animal (cryptozoology) other discoveries can be made that are just as important (if not more important). Cures for diseases, discovery of new flora & fauna, and cultural and anthropological finds and scores of other scientific data.Myself, I consider my find of Barack Obama’s 1961 CPGH birth certificate to be a spectacular inadvertent discovery!PS- I became interested in Mokele Mbembe when I was much younger. I love Africa.

    Unfortunately, your answer sounds like I will have to wait a very long time to see your Mokele Mbembe book.

    I will ask politely again if there are any of the sites or links you would share – (I’m not trying to take away from what you’re saving for your book). I’m sure that there is info on this topic you’ve put into the public domain before. All I’m asking is that you be willing to give me some links. As part of what I asked prior, it doesn’t have to just be your info – but if there are any of the prefered hypothoses that you subscribe to and as part of that, amongst the plethora of sites and sources out there, which ones you like best on the topic and agree with most as reference.

    I hope you will respond. I honestly find this part of your personal interests more in tune with my own, as I don’t see credible evidence that supports the Kenyan birth stuff.

    Also, I’m sure there are other cryptids (there are so many tales and names of ones – especially from that region of Africa alone) that you have interest in. I’d love to know which other ones you find the most intriguing. Thanks.

  70. avatar
    Sean March 20, 2011 at 5:52 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Everything you said was strange.

    1.For one, I am known for writing long and windy rants that include and reference all sorts of fascinating data from a variety of esoteric subjects that I studies in university.

    2.When I stated, “They are nearly insulted when you questions talented men of the past and their trade.” I obviously WASNT referring to you and your buddy when use the word “they”. Thanks for taking my statement totally out of context.My best advise to you is to read slowly enough that you can comprehend what the writer is saying, rather then freaking out throwing your Vodka and Sprite across the room and snatching the keyboard up and writing the first piece of hodgepodge junk science and poor excuse for a slick comeback.

    3.The 1961 CPGH bc has dbeen talked about all over the internet for going on two years now. 1961 CPGH Obama bc ebates have been among the most heat and controversial most of any birther related topic.I’m banned for life from FreeRepublic.com and so are good many others for just mentioning my name there. WND has covered this and so has about every other eligibility related website, both supporter and skeptic.I was in the witness room in Judge Carter’s courtroom in 2009 waiting to testify under oath in open Court regarding the 1961 CPGH Obama and how I obtained it but the USDOJ refused to allow this even though the Judge (Carter) pushed it to happen.I crafted a July 4th, 2010 letter to every member of US Congress and had each letter individually notarized and then sent each letter via USPS Certified Mail.Before I sent those letters off I scanned everything into a near 4000 page PDF which is no online for everyone to see.I’ve worked with many of the eligibility attorneys (some of them behind the scenes).Also a youtube forum where I have roundly dueled with skeptics and left a record of it with thousands of comments.Members of various State Congresses or General Assemblies know of my name and have often made indirect and subtle comments regarding the 1961 CPGH bc.

    For you, Sean, to now feign ignorance (or more likely not feigning but just honest ignorance) by asking people on this new blog report, part 1 and now 2) by Dr. Con. the question of“Is it fair to say the Smith document has not had this level of scrutiny before?” proves that you aren’t very familiar, at all, with claims of Barack Obama’s foreign birth.

    Btw, Sean, you don’t have to feel obligated to return with a slick comment and inept attempt at one-uping me.It makes you look childish.

    And thanks for admitting that you are not just some guy that happened to notice the ‘kerning’ on the document but rather a, as you claim, a person that is very impartial as you have been submitting data to Doc Conspiracy for some longer amount of time.Also, as you claim now (most recent) it was my story that thought smelled funny and not the document itself.

    I would have more respect for you if you’d slop flip-flopping and have a little backbone and stop changing your story. You might take a lesson from myself, if I can say that without being labeled as being conceded.My account of the events has never wavered.In 2009 I told my account to many different groups of people, even before the infamous eBay auctions.My testament stands as it stood then, without a single deviation.

    In closing, Sean (do you like to hear you name?), I also must point out that I believe it is possible that you suffer from “megalomania”.Well, I’m sure that guy of your stature has probably no idea of what the significance (meaning) of such a word is but I help you out with it.It sort of implies that you have illusions of being more important than you really are. Do you live with your mum (or do you term it as she lives with you)?

    Bye.

    Wow! You are a sensitive guy. How many personal insults can we count here? Five? Six?

    I think you’re projecting about the megalomania. I’m anonymous. You’re not. So who’s the one enjoying the attention? Don’t you have an autographed photo of yourself on sale on Ebay?

    I’m enjoying sifting through the BS. Conspiracy theories and propaganda are fascinating. Things like creationism and Scientology are fun to read about and sometimes add two cents to.

    Conspiracies about Obama was fun topic from the get go because you start off with a guy like Obama who’s unusual because he’s a politician with no real political baggage. It’s fair to say Obama’s a decent guy. So what can his political opponents do?
    -Guilt by association (Bill Ayers)
    -Criticize him of things many people do (putting mustard on his cheeseburger.)
    -Half truths (failing to put his hand on his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance.)
    -Fabrication. (fake birth certificates)

    And the most interesting:

    Constitutional analysis (the meaning of Natural Born Citizen.)

    I don’t agree with everything Obama does, if fact I joke with my friends saying “If he continues to play patty cake with the Republicans, I’m going to yell Where’s the Birth Certificate!”

    I enjoy the discussion and I enjoy BS artists being confronted with their BS.

    I think you enjoy the attention, but I also think you think there’s still a buck to be made somewhere in this for you. You didn’t get the money you wanted for this birth certificate on Ebay (was it a million?), so you’re still trying to keep it in play.

    You’re a grifter. It’s that simple.

    You may now continue your personal insults of me. They work so well.

  71. avatar
    gorefan March 20, 2011 at 7:11 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Doc, you might want to call the listed telephone number (41-2222148) that is on the 1961 CPGH Obama bc if you want to see if it is real.

    It wouldn’t be hard to get the phone number to the hospital or the e-mail address for the administrator. So I don’t doubt that they are real. It is the fact you got the wrong administrator with the wrong name and the wrong date format that is the problem for you.

    When you write your book about the President’s origins will it be self published under the fiction catagory?

  72. avatar
    Sef March 20, 2011 at 7:31 pm #

    gorefan: When you write your book about the President’s origins will it be self published under the fiction catagory?

    With a title “I Was a Teen-Aged Forger”?

  73. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith March 20, 2011 at 7:48 pm #

    Sean: Wow! You are a sensitive guy. How many personal insults can we count here? Five? Six?

    I think you’re projecting about the megalomania. I’m anonymous. You’re not. So who’s the one enjoying the attention? Don’t you have an autographed photo of yourself on sale on Ebay?

    I’m enjoying sifting through the BS. Conspiracy theories and propaganda are fascinating. Things like creationism and Scientology are fun to read about and sometimes add two cents to.

    Conspiracies about Obama was fun topic from the get go because you start off with a guy like Obama who’s unusual because he’s a politician with no real political baggage. It’s fair to say Obama’s a decent guy. So what can his political opponents do?
    -Guilt by association (Bill Ayers)
    -Criticize him of things many people do (putting mustard on his cheeseburger.)
    -Half truths (failing to put his hand on his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance.)
    -Fabrication. (fake birth certificates)

    And the most interesting:

    Constitutional analysis (the meaning of Natural Born Citizen.)

    I don’t agree with everything Obama does, if fact I joke with my friends saying “If he continues to play patty cake with the Republicans, I’m going to yell Where’s the Birth Certificate!”

    I enjoy the discussion and I enjoy BS artists being confronted with their BS.

    I think you enjoy the attention, but I also think you think there’s still a buck to be made somewhere in this for you. You didn’t get the money you wanted for this birth certificate on Ebay (was it a million?), so you’re still trying to keep it in play.

    You’re a grifter. It’s that simple.

    You may now continue your personal insults of me. They work so well.

    Sir, the eBay auctions were not intended to garner money. I have talked much about this in the past, in person and online, although I don’t expect anyone to follow everything that I’ve written in different places all around the internet.

    In March of 2009 I began contacting attorneys, state legislatures, US legislatures and news outlets. No one wanted to touch the birth certificate story.

    I started using eBay back in I believe November of 2004. I have used several different accounts. In May of June of 2009 I started thinking about using eBay as a way to ‘go public’.

    I’d never even heard of WND (World Net Daily) or The Post & Email. And I didn’t want to start a little crappy blog (not saying that blogs are bad, I love blogs and the bloggers that blog on them) but nobody reads a blog unless they know who you are. So, me, a guy names Lucas D. Smith, not really known nationally (other than for a Kidney story and also a national news story back in 1997 when I was 17 and working at McDonalds I threw a bucket fulls worth of hot chicken grease on three customers that came to the store to physically hurt me) would have appeared like just another lunatic claiming that he’s spotted a UFO in his backyard. Nobody would have paid attention and those that did would have probably been strange people that claim that they speak to aliens through their antique radio sets.

    I used eBay as a platform to officially lunch my story. And yes, the first 4 or 5 auctions went pretty high in price. One of the auctions was for a Dissertation on the Birth Place of Barack Obama. The bids topped more than $1,000,000 (one million) dollars before eBay pulled that one.

    My intent was not to garner money but rather to garner publicity. eBay helped me VERY MUCH when they started canceling auctions for my dissertation (and the other 6 auctions too). I mean, what do they expect people to think when a guy can’t even sell on eBay a dissertation about the president’s birth place ??? People start asking questions at that point. Especially when eBay started making claims that a few of the auctions were pulled because the sale of government issued ID is not allowed. Yet at the same time you could buy other birth certificates (real ones, certified, embossed seal and all) of other people, some of them still living like the ‘Spock’ character (Leonard Nimoy). I bought several birth certificates after that last canceled auction and eBay never had a problems with that. Why is that?

    The agreement, in my auctions, was that I would meet the winning bidder on the steps on the Iowa State Building (in the capitol) and the bidder could bring a long a team to view the document before they paid me, and that if they weren’t satisfied with the document they could pass on it and not pay me any monies. Does that sound like a guy that really expects someone to pay him? I mean, if the auctions would have been completed (i.e., eBay doesn’t pull the auction) I would have meet with the highest bidder and there would have been some news reporters present and lots of other people too. It would have been big news.

    So, either way it went, canceled auction or completed auction, it still would have launched the birth certificate into the public’s eyes and ears.

    You mentioned me hurling insults at you, Sean. Take no offense, Sir. I prefer to keep to the facts and report objectively and use analogies liberally so that everyone can understand the more difficult segments of my research and my reasoning. I sometimes like to go off into lengthy rants which are often a blend of serious findings of facts and a little humor often veiled in friend insults. I tend to only do that AFTER the person that I am replying to has already shown their hand as a person that will say whatever they have to discredit the 1961 CPGH Obama birth certificate. People such as yourself will apply such tactics as pretending that I have not answered a question already, taking my answer completely out of context, in general playing dumb as if what I’ve stated doesn’t apply, pretending that it doesn’t matter that I’ve just debunked several claims by proceeding immediately to your next questions even though I have just spent an hour debunking other claims, making up claims that are just plain old crazy such as Kenya never used AM and PM when telling time, recyling old internet lore about the birth doctor not ever working anywhere but in Nairobi, citing WND, citing other articled that have been pulled by other authors because I have long ago debunked them, pretending to be an expert in specific fields of study when in fact you they are not, making jokes about a level header effective answer that I just posted, pretending that they know about a kidney scam and kidney sale that they know nothing about other than a few online news articles and my own writings (by the way, I wrote a book about the kidney sale), taking my eBay auctions out of context after I’ve explained effectively and respectfully what they auctions were all about.

    Those are a few reasons for my sometimes comical and lengthy rants. Also, lots of people find laughter, as well as serious insight, in these mixed rants. So please don’t be offended, Sir. It’s not my intention to offend the soft a silky stings of those hearts that beat within the petite, yet courageous, men that sit behind their battle PC with keyboard as their shield and small mouse aimed and readied for attack.

    Ungawa!

  74. avatar
    MA March 20, 2011 at 8:04 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: People such as yourself will apply such tactics as pretending that I have not answered a question already,

    You STILL haven’t addressed the fact that your “baby Obama” is very disproportionately short for his weight and yet as an adult, he is above average, especially given that in term babies there is a positive association between birth length and adult height.

  75. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith March 20, 2011 at 8:10 pm #

    .

    Dear Dr. Conspiracy,

    I read that you will soon be upgrading your blog and making it more secure. Good idea.

    However, I hope that it will not change the appearance of you website for the worse.

    What I mean is that that you know that guy that guy and his blog over at Bad Fiction. Well, that guy changed the layout on his website and it totally, categorically, sucks now and I don’t see how people can even force themselves to read his blog now. He had a professional and interesting looking blog at first but, the new layout trumps everything now.

    I imagine that you and the Bad Fiction guy are at least in somewhat of contact with each other. You might advise him that he should either change his website back to the way it was, or, just give up blogging for life and I find another hobby such as worshiping Orly Taitz, drinking her bathwater, and creating a small shrine to her in his attic.

  76. avatar
    Sean March 20, 2011 at 8:32 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith:

    You mentioned me hurling insults at you, Sean.Take no offense, Sir.I prefer to keep to the facts and report objectively and use analogies liberally so that everyone can understand the more difficult segments of my research and my reasoning.I sometimes like to go off into lengthy rants which are often a blend of serious findings of facts and a little humor often veiled in friend insults.I tend to only do that AFTER the person that I am replying to has already shown their hand as a person that will say whatever they have to discredit the 1961 CPGH Obama birth certificate. People such as yourself will apply such tactics as pretending that I have not answered a question already, taking my answer completely out of context, in general playing dumb as if what I’ve stated doesn’t apply, pretending that it doesn’t matter that I’ve just debunked several claims by proceeding immediately to your next questions even though I have just spent an hour debunking other claims, making up claims that are just plain old crazy such as Kenya never used AM and PM when telling time, recyling old internet lore about the birth doctor not ever working anywhere but in Nairobi, citing WND, citing other articled that have been pulled by other authors because I have long ago debunked them, pretending to be an expert in specific fields of study when in fact you they are not, making jokes about a level header effective answer that I just posted, pretending that they know about a kidney scam and kidney sale that they know nothing about other than a few online news articles and my own writings (by the way, I wrote a book about the kidney sale), taking my eBay auctions out of context after I’ve explained effectively and respectfully what they auctions were all about.

    Those are a few reasons for my sometimes comical and lengthy rants.Also, lots of people find laughter, as well as serious insight, in these mixed rants. So please don’t be offended, Sir.It’s not my intention to offend the soft a silky stings of those hearts that beat within the petite, yet courageous, men that sit behind their battle PC with keyboard as their shield and small mouse aimed and readied for attack.

    I’m not offended. I look at you like a monkey in a cage. You do what grifters do.

    You do bad things, (crimes and insults) then you go into damage control to justify your actions.

    I enjoy watching you self-destruct. You sound like Martin Sheen.

  77. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 20, 2011 at 8:36 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: I read that you will soon be upgrading your blog and making it more secure. Good idea.

    However, I hope that it will not change the appearance of you[r] website for the worse.

    The upgrade was finished a couple days ago and did not involve any changes to the layout.

    Maybe McKinnon changed the theme of his blog to green is for St. Patrick’s day. Dunno.

  78. avatar
    Sean March 20, 2011 at 8:45 pm #

    This reminds me of an 80’s comic strip called Bloom County. There was one storyline that was a spoof on the Hitler Diaries (famous document forgery at the time). The character Opus the penguin was forging pages of the Elvis Diaries and supplying them to the local newspaper. They were eventually proven a forgery because on closer inspection they were written on Dukes of Hazard stationary.

  79. avatar
    G March 20, 2011 at 8:50 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: What I mean is that that you know that guy that guy and his blog over at Bad Fiction. Well, that guy changed the layout on his website and it totally, categorically, sucks now and I don’t see how people can even force themselves to read his blog now. He had a professional and interesting looking blog at first but, the new layout trumps everything now.

    Personally, I’m just fine with the new layout and functionality at Bad Fiction. You’re entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. Each to their own.

  80. avatar
    Reality Check March 20, 2011 at 9:58 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: I used eBay as a platform to officially lunch my story. And yes, the first 4 or 5 auctions went pretty high in price. One of the auctions was for a Dissertation on the Birth Place of Barack Obama. The bids topped more than $1,000,000 (one million) dollars before eBay pulled that one.

    The auction I saw for the dissertation was for “tickets” for the right to purchase a dissertation that did not and still does not exist. Ebay correctly pulled the action because it violated their terms of service that say you cannot sell an item that does not exist. If I recall correctly the number of “tickets” sold amounted to no more than a few hundred when Ebay pulled the plug on the scam.

  81. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith March 20, 2011 at 10:11 pm #

    Reality Check: The auction I saw for the dissertation was for “tickets” for the right to purchase a dissertation that did not and still does not exist. Ebay correctly pulled the action because it violated their terms of service that say you cannot sell an item that does not exist. If I recall correctly the number of “tickets” sold amounted to no more than a few hundred when Ebay pulled the plug on the scam.

    Wrong auction, wrong time period. You are talking about the ‘ticket’ auction in October 2009.

    The June-July 2009 Dissertation about Barack Obama’s birth place has bids from than a million dollars before eBay pulled it. WND reported several times on the auctions.

    For person that calls himself/herself “Reality Check” you should get the facts straight before you post strange comments. No wonder no on reads your little Reality Check blog.

  82. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith March 20, 2011 at 10:16 pm #

    Well, it’s been a pleasure to chat with you gentlemen and ladies here on Doc’s blog over the last several days.

    I’m not sure that time will permit me to do much more posting here at ‘Obamaconspiracy’ so if you don’t hear from me for a while please don’t start thinking that its because I don’t like you.

    I like just about everybody in the world.

  83. avatar
    Reality Check March 20, 2011 at 10:25 pm #

    Pardon me for pointing out a different Lucas Smith scam on Ebay. There are so many from which to choose you know.

  84. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 20, 2011 at 10:31 pm #

    Sean: How was 47o44 shown to be unintentional?

    The guy who made the certificate said it was.

  85. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 20, 2011 at 10:34 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Doc, you might want to call the listed telephone number (41-2222148) that is on the 1961 CPGH Obama bc if you want to see if it is real.

    I already know that the number is a listed number for the hospital. I have their fax number too.

  86. avatar
    Sef March 20, 2011 at 10:34 pm #

    Sean: You sound like Martin Sheen.

    You’re confusing your Sheens.

  87. avatar
    Sean March 20, 2011 at 10:38 pm #

    Sef: You’re confusing your Sheens.

    That’s right. Charlie Sheen.

  88. avatar
    Sean March 20, 2011 at 10:42 pm #

    Lucas will be back soon. Next time with hot chicken grease.

  89. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) March 20, 2011 at 10:48 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith:
    Well, it’s been a pleasure to chat with you gentlemen and ladies here on Doc’s blog over the last several days.

    I’m not sure that time will permit me to do much more posting here at Obamaconspiracy’ so if you don’t hear from me for a while please don’t start thinking that its because I don’t like you.

    I like just about everybody in the world.

    Isn’t this time number 4 that you said you wouldn’t be posting here?

  90. avatar
    katahdin March 20, 2011 at 11:25 pm #

    For everyone’s amusement and edification:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqKOil0YXiE&feature=related

  91. avatar
    The Magic M March 21, 2011 at 5:44 am #

    > If it’s up for physical document inspection, don’t forget the age of the paper and ink. That’s what killed the Hitler Diaries.

    That and the fact that the Fraktur letters on the cover didn’t even spell “AH” but “FH” because the forger obviously had no idea about this font.
    (Something which I was reminded of when I read about the Helton/Heltan issue.)

    Then again, according to Wikipedia the last volume sold for 6,500 EUR – so who knows, maybe even a fake Kenyan BC might be worth some money to some.

  92. avatar
    Reality Check March 21, 2011 at 9:45 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: For person that calls himself/herself “Reality Check” you should get the facts straight before you post strange comments. No wonder no on [sic] reads your little Reality Check blog.

    I suppose if I reworked my blog to target convicted forgers, scammers, liars, and admitted statutory rapists you might like it better?

  93. avatar
    Slartibartfast March 21, 2011 at 11:57 am #

    Man, I go away for the weekend and have a couple of hundred comments to catch up on…

    These are a couple of comments from the old thread that I wanted to respond to:

    (I faked the quotes – the authors are correct, but the links are not…)

    Majority Will:“why do you keep posting comments”

    The down and out, convicted forger and pathological liar doesn’t get the amusement part of his elaborate and ridiculous fiction. He also doesn’t understand (and probably isn’t capable of understanding) the need to expose birther liars and con artists for what they are. The most common birther meme is to repeat lies often enough thinking that the lies will magically come true. People need to know the truth about these despicable liars whether motivated by bigotry or the need to scam people for money.

    It’s also like witnessing the clumsy acts of a freak at a circus show with no cover charge.

    I’m making more popcorn.

    Bigotry and/or greed are the only possible motivations that I can see for being a birther (either that or a crapload of ignorance and stupidity…) and I agree that the birhters are just like a clumsy freak show (down to the little twinge of prurient guild I have at enjoying their antics…) – can you pass the popcorn?

    gorefan: Coast General Hospital in Mombasa, February, 2009

    As she stood at the counter, Doli Okeke could not believe her eyes. The pale, young American had just placed $5000 on the counter and all he wanted was one of the Obama Birth Certificates. She looked over to Maalik Nwosu, it had originally been his idea to print up the birth certificates. She had never been convinced that anyone would pay for such nonsense, but Maalik said Americans were gullible. But $5000, they never though they would get that much, maybe $100 or $200, but $5000. Maalik was right Americans are gullible.

    Maalik gave Doli a nod and she left to get the paper. She was grateful to leave the room as it was all she could do to keep from breakout in laughter.

    As she skipped down the hall, she began to think about what she would do with her share of the money. Maybe some new clothes or a new TV. She opened the door to the janitors closet, where they kept the fake certificates. She froze, she had to stop thinking of them as “fakes”, as Maalik said, they are souvenirs. No different from the elephant tusks, rino horns or witchdoctor masks, they sold in the shops in town. She took the top copy from a stack of certificates that sat next to the bottles of cleaner.

    Leaving the closet, she crossed the hall to the nurse’s station. One last, final touch, a current date stamp. She smile when she noticed that they had misspelled the name of the incoming administrator. Oh well, no one in America would know the difference. As she walked back to the office where the American waited for his prize, she thought ‘Maybe she would take a nice vacation with her boyfriend.’

    Excellent hypothetical! To me (assuming that what Mr. Smith described really happened… ;-)) this is the most plausible scenario that I’ve heard.

    Dr. Conspiracy:

    Slartibartfast: Conversely, for those trying to prove that the document could have been plausibly forged, it isn’t sufficient to show that the kerning could have been done by available methods – in order to be reasonable it needs to be something that could have been done carelessly (rather than intentionally) by a forger – something that automatically happens when using a modern version of a Caslon font, for instance. It isn’t reasonable to think that a forger would go out of their way to include evidence of forgery in their work… In any case, I think that you will find that the people here are willing to give any evidence you have a fair hearing, but I suspect that you wont like the consensus which emerges from ALL the evidence…

    Let’s take a step backwards.

    Sef (in a previous comment) claims to have a copy of the Adobe Caslon font and that the Smith certificate does not match it. I don’t know what specific issues Sef found. I have a copy of Bitstream Caslon 540 and it doesn’t match the Smith certificate either (the “W” is wrong) and using Microsoft Word, the “y” doesn’t hang under the “n” in “Kenya” by default, nor can you make it look that way using the character spacing tools in Word 2007.

    So not only have we not found an “ny” ligature in a historical document, we haven’t found one in a modern word processing program using Caslon font either.

    Clearly both sides have work to do.

    The first step towards wisdom is in knowing that you know nothing – I think you’ve done that and correctly identified the standards that evidence on each side must meet…

    Now I just need to catch up with the comments on this thread…

  94. avatar
    Loren March 21, 2011 at 12:16 pm #

    Reality Check:
    Pardon me for pointing out a different Lucas Smith scam on Ebay. There are so many from which to choose you know.

    Here’s what the October 2009 ‘book ticket’ auction said. This auction reaped over $200 from buyers, and I don’t believe it was pulled by eBay. The book was never published. I’ve bolded portions that I consider significant:

    Ticket for Dissertation Barack Obama Kenya Birth CPGH

    This auction is for a ticket that costs $15.00 US Dollars.

    This ticket that you are purchasing is your receipt of donation for printing costs.

    The price of this ticket will help cover independent printing costs of Lucas Smith’s book entitled:

    Dissertation on Foreign Birth of US President Barack Hussein Obama II at Coast Province General Hospital in Mombasa.

    The dissertation will be published by Lucas Smith, independently, by dint of Constitution Publications which was establsihed in 2005 by Lucas Smith.

    Book consists of 1000 pages.

    Each segment (not every page) of the dissertation will be signed by Lucas Smith and a Notary Public.

    Book contains color pictures of Lucas Smith in the following countries: United States, Dominican Republic, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Republic of the Congo, France, Uganda and Kenya.

    Dissertation furnishes account of the following individuals that compass the physical birth of Barack Obama II:

    A. Dr James O.W. Ang’awa

    B. Stanley Ann Obama / Dunham

    C. John Kwame Odongo

    D. Barack Hussein Obama Senior

    E. Madelyn Lee Payne Dunham

    F. And more.

    Dissertation furnishes key details and insider information surrounding the following contemporaries:

    A. Helton Maganga

    B. Members of Kenya Department of Defense

    C. Andylenny

    D. Jerome Corsi

    E. Charles Lincoln

    F. Michelle Obama

    G. Payton Freiman

    H. Barack Obama II

    I. Orly Taitz

    J. And many, many, many others.

    Dissertation contains scores of marshaled documents, maps, African passport stamps in Smith’s passport and other instruments which establish, under both standards of evidence, preponderance of the evidence and beyond a reasonable doubt, that US President Barack Obama was born at Coast Province General Hospital, Mombasa, British Protectorate of Kenya.

    Dissertation discusses and lays out specific reasoning behind Lucas Smith’s travel to Africa in 2009. Smith did not travel to Africa with beforehand knowledge of Barack Obama’s Kenyan Birth. Smith is a writer and traveled to Africa for a story in the Congo.

    Dissertation discusses in intricate detail birth documents and other identity instruments and their history.

    Dissertation details and documents Smith’s journey beginning in January 2009 which included travel to and through Africa and Kenya and Coast Province General Hospital (CPGH).

    Dissertation discusses at length Smith

    Note how much documentation was promised in this October 2009 auction, which *still* hasn’t been produced.

  95. avatar
    Majority Will March 21, 2011 at 12:16 pm #

    Slartibartfast: Bigotry and/or greed are the only possible motivations that I can see for being a birther (either that or a crapload of ignorance and stupidity…) and I agree that the birthers are just like a clumsy freak show (down to the little twinge of prurient guilt I have at enjoying their antics…) – can you pass the popcorn

    Yep. And it’s buttered and ready to go. Help yourself.

    Also, bigotry doesn’t go anywhere without his riding buddies, fear, ignorance, enmity and resentment.

  96. avatar
    Majority Will March 21, 2011 at 12:24 pm #

    Loren: Note how much documentation was promised in this October 2009 auction, which *still* hasn’t been produced.

    And how the intent changes:

    “I traveled to Kenya and Mombasa in particular with the intent to obtain the original birth certificate of Barack Hussein Obama, as I was told previously that it was on file in the hospital and under seal, due to the fact that the prime minister of Kenya Raela Odinga is Barack Hussein Obama’s cousin.”

    “Smith did not travel to Africa with beforehand knowledge of Barack Obama’s Kenyan Birth. Smith is a writer and traveled to Africa for a story in the Congo.”

    What a tangled world wide web he weaves intending only to deceive.

    ( – with apologies for rephrasing the quote of Sir Walter Scott)

  97. avatar
    Slartibartfast March 21, 2011 at 12:27 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Most of you people that post on this blog are atypical (euphemism).When you find the answer you don’t understand what the answer in really answering.

    I wouldn’t recommend that most people on this blog ever take a job as an analyst or research assistant.

    As someone who does scientific research, I think there are at least a half a dozen people here (starting with Doc) who I would love to have working for me as a research assistant or analyst (by the way, you aren’t one of them…).

    If your comment “When you find the answer you don’t understand what the answer in really answering.” wasn’t just meaningless word salad, then please give an example of this and explain what you meant.

  98. avatar
    Slartibartfast March 21, 2011 at 12:35 pm #

    Majority Will: Also, bigotry doesn’t go anywhere without his riding buddies, fear, ignorance, enmity and resentment.

    I suppose stupidity just tags along…

  99. avatar
    Reality Check March 21, 2011 at 1:17 pm #

    Loren: Here’s what the October 2009 book ticket’ auction said. This auction reaped over $200 from buyers, and I don’t believe it was pulled by eBay. The book was never published. I’ve bolded portions that I consider significant:

    The item was for sale by colmado_naranja, Ebay auction #160366879198. The item was pulled before the end of the auction. (Either voluntarily or by Ebay). colmado_naranja is no longer a registered user on Ebay. I think we can guess it was not voluntary, however, because Inspector Smith said:

    Hello everyone. I just checked my paypal account email address and found that Paypal has frozen the account. The account can longer receive or send payments. Paypal did the same with the original Paypal account that was connected to the Colmado_Naranja eBay account when I put up the auction for the original Dissertation auction in June-July of this year. I’ll have to switch to Amazon for some other site because it’s clear now that eBay / Paypal are not going to allow me to sell anything that has to do with Barack Obama being ineligible to hold office as US President.

  100. avatar
    Thrifty March 21, 2011 at 1:36 pm #

    I want to say that I love that this blog attracts birthers. It’s one thing for a bunch of folks to sit around and say “lol birthers are stupid”, but it’s not nearly as fun.

    How does that saying go? “If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit?” Birthers (and I guess all conspiracy theorists) certainly do know how to baffle with bullshit.

    Also I missed something. What is the “CPGH” birth certificate that y’all keep referring to?

    And am I misreading, or is this Lucas Smith guy publicly admitting that he attempted to engage in illegal black market organ selling?

  101. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 21, 2011 at 1:47 pm #

    Thrifty: Also I missed something. What is the “CPGH” birth certificate that y’all keep referring to?

    Read here:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/09/latest-filings-in-barnett-v-obama/

  102. avatar
    Slartibartfast March 21, 2011 at 1:52 pm #

    Thrifty: And am I misreading, or is this Lucas Smith guy publicly admitting that he attempted to engage in illegal black market organ selling?

    Mr. Smith claims to have sold a kidney for $200,000. Given the source, the credibility of the claim is dubious…

  103. avatar
    Slartibartfast March 21, 2011 at 1:58 pm #

    Slartibartfast: Mr. Smith claims to have sold a kidney for $200,000.Given the source, the credibility of the claim is dubious…

    I should clarify that, Mr. Smith claims to have sold one of his kidneys

  104. avatar
    Loren March 21, 2011 at 2:23 pm #

    MA: You STILL haven’t addressed the fact that your “baby Obama” is very disproportionately short for his weight and yet as an adult, he is above average, especially given that in term babies there is a positive association between birth length and adult height.

    You’re looking at this all wrong. If I claimed to have procured a fascinating document (say, a Carribbean marriage certificate between JFK and Marilyn Monroe), it’s not my place to explain the anomalies others point out. If I faked it, then the explanation doesn’t really matter. If it’s real, then I’m hardly in the position to justify the details. I’m not the person to answer questions about history, or typography, or handwriting, or terminology.

    What I *can* do is explain how on earth I got my hands on such a document. I can prove that I didn’t just fake the thing on my home computer, filling it with information I found online. By evidencing my own story, I add to my credibility. Failing to do so subtracts from my credibility.

    Lucas doesn’t need to explain shoulder widths, or date styles, or document formats. He needs to prove that he was physically present in Mombasa, Kenya in February 2009. If he wasn’t, then everything else is irrelevant. He can try to talk about document features all day long, but if his story is full of crap, then the features are worthless.

    Two years after Lucas supposedly procured this document (and a year and a half after he actually shared it with anyone), he still hasn’t provided a shred of evidence putting himself in Kenya (or anywhere on the African continent), despite various promises to do so at unspecified future dates. Asking him to justify other things plays right into his own need for diversion and distraction from this core issue.

  105. avatar
    Mary Adams March 21, 2011 at 3:21 pm #

    Loren: You’re looking at this all wrong.If I claimed to have procured a fascinating document (say, a Carribbean marriage certificate between JFK and Marilyn Monroe), it’s not my place to explain the anomalies others point out.If I faked it, then the explanation doesn’t really matter.If it’s real, then I’m hardly in the position to justify the details.I’m not the person to answer questions about history, or typography, or handwriting, or terminology.

    What I *can* do is explain how on earth I got my hands on such a document.I can prove that I didn’t just fake the thing on my home computer, filling it with information I found online.By evidencing my own story, I add to my credibility.Failing to do so subtracts from my credibility.

    Lucas doesn’t need to explain shoulder widths, or date styles, or document formats.He needs to prove that he was physically present in Mombasa, Kenya in February 2009.If he wasn’t, then everything else is irrelevant.He can try to talk about document features all day long, but if his story is full of crap, then the features are worthless.

    Two years after Lucas supposedly procured this document (and a year and a half after he actually shared it with anyone), he still hasn’t provided a shred of evidence putting himself in Kenya (or anywhere on the African continent), despite various promises to do so at unspecified future dates.Asking him to justify other things plays right into his own need for diversion and distraction from this core issue.

    You’re right Loren and obviously Lucas Smith hasn’t been able to find a Kenyan visa of the appropriate vintage to forge a pic of it in his “passport”. LOL!

  106. avatar
    Majority Will March 21, 2011 at 3:34 pm #

    By the way, forging someone’s signature on checks is considered a form of identity theft. Of course, a con artist will always try to make excuses no matter how feeble in a bizarre attempt to appear less despicable in the eyes of honest, law abiding people.

  107. avatar
    Sean March 21, 2011 at 3:39 pm #

    Majority Will:
    By the way, forging someone’s signature on checks is considered a form of identity theft. Of course, a con artist will always try to make excuses no matter how feeble in a bizarre attempt to appear less despicable in the eyes of honest, law abiding people.

    Well, laws are just inconveniences to Lucas Smith. If he doesn’t believe in a law, it doesn’t count.

  108. avatar
    Daniel March 21, 2011 at 3:43 pm #

    Has anyone thought to query Kenya Immigration Authority to see if they can corroborate Mr Smith’s entry into Kenya on or near the specified date?

    I’m not sure what the privacy laws are in Kenya regarding information of foreigners into and out of the country, but on the off chance that info is available to the public, it might be worth asking.

    If it turns out Kenya can state that Smith did not enter Kenya, then the whole Kenyan BC fallacy crumbles… again.

  109. avatar
    Sean March 21, 2011 at 3:50 pm #

    This guy in Poland claims to have a photo of Chopin on his deathbed:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/20/polish-collector-claims-h_1_n_837860.html

    Watch the video and see if you notice some similarities to Lucas Smith.

  110. avatar
    Majority Will March 21, 2011 at 4:04 pm #

    Sean:
    This guy in Poland claims to have a photo of Chopin on his deathbed:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/20/polish-collector-claims-h_1_n_837860.html

    Watch the video and see if you notice some similarities to Lucas Smith.

    If you walk by Frédéric Chopin’s grave at the Père Lachaise cemetery in Paris late at night during a full moon and put your ear up to Auguste Clésinger’s inspiring statue of Euterpe weeping over a broken lyre, you can hear the great master of Romantic music decomposing.

  111. avatar
    Judge Mental March 21, 2011 at 4:32 pm #

    Daniel: Has anyone thought to query Kenya Immigration Authority to see if they can corroborate Mr Smith’s entry into Kenya on or near the specified date?I’m not sure what the privacy laws are in Kenya regarding information of foreigners into and out of the country, but on the off chance that info is available to the public, it might be worth asking.If it turns out Kenya can state that Smith did not enter Kenya, then the whole Kenyan BC fallacy crumbles… again.

    I know it’s difficult for a rational person to do, but you’re not thinking ‘birther’ clearly. It would certainly confirm he was in Kenya if some immigration record was found. However, to birthers any official ‘post search’ confirmation that there is no record of any arrival/departure of Smith would simply further corroborate that Kenyan Authorities are all “in on it” .

    To them this would also be entirely consistent with the birth certificate which Inspector Lucas Clousseau unearthed in Mombasa having been squirreled away under armed guard concealment in the first place.

    Airline passenger manifests for the last few years are usually pretty readily available. I’m sure Lucas Smith knows this. He has never availed himself of either of these two easy routes to at least confirm that he travelled to Kenya (nor any other methods available to him such as tickets etc).

    He might try to compare this with Obama spurning the easy route of instructing release of any additional birth record information that people want. They are of course quite different things. There is already adequate proof of Obama’s birth in Hawaii in several assorted pieces of reliably sourced evidence. However there is absolutely zilch evidence of Smith ever being in Kenya. Not the same kind of situation at all.

  112. avatar
    Majority Will March 21, 2011 at 4:43 pm #

    Judge Mental: Inspector Lucas Clousseau

    LMAO

    Clouseau: [after getting his hand caught in a spinning globe] “Look at that. I have Africa all over my hand.”

  113. avatar
    Reality Check March 21, 2011 at 6:51 pm #

    It seems Lucas Smith will be on the Barbara Espinosa Hair on Fire Show on KFNX Radio in Phoenix. AZ at 8 PM MT (10 PM ET) tonight.

    http://1100kfnx.com/
    http://www.americanfreedombybarbara.com/
    Call in numbers are 602-253-9616 or 602-254-2535.

  114. avatar
    Daniel March 22, 2011 at 1:10 am #

    Judge Mental: I know it’s difficult for a rational person to do, but you’re not thinking birther’ clearly.

    Sigh, yes you are correct. the proper use of logic is one of my bad habits.

  115. avatar
    Woofie March 22, 2011 at 2:53 am #

    This is new from Smiths Youtube site:

    InspectorSmith (14 hours ago)
    I’m with Ralph Nader.

    He points out in the interview that GEORGE W BUSH and Barack Obama are BOTH guilty of war crimes.

    I look forward to the day when justice is served and BOTH Bush and Obama are strung up on ropes in front of the White House and hung (sentenced, legally, to death by a US Court) in front of their families.

    What, does that sound cold-hearted? I think not. Men and women in the penitentiaries are executed each year across the United States for much smaller than crimes than those of Bush and Obama ordering the slaughtering of millions of innocent people abroad (and let’s not forget the World Trade Center on 9/11/2001).

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Smith has more in common with Truthers and Leftist Bush haters than he does anyone on the right .
    The man is simply a nut masquerading as a Clown

    Dr Conspiracy have you put any time in arguing with Truthers? Do you not find them equally or more dangerous than Birthers?

  116. avatar
    Sean March 22, 2011 at 3:54 am #

    Woofie:
    This is newfrom Smiths Youtube site:

    InspectorSmith (14 hours ago)
    I’m with Ralph Nader.

    He points out in the interview that GEORGE W BUSH and Barack Obama are BOTH guilty of war crimes.

    I look forward to the day when justice is served and BOTH Bush and Obama are strung up on ropes in front of the White House and hung (sentenced, legally, to death by a US Court) in front of their families.

    What, does that sound cold-hearted? I think not. Men and women in the penitentiaries are executed each year across the United States for much smaller than crimes than those of Bush and Obama ordering the slaughtering of millions of innocent people abroad (and let’s not forget the World Trade Center on 9/11/2001).

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Smith has more in common with Truthers and Leftist Bush haters than he does anyone on the right .
    The man is simply a nut masquerading as a Clown

    Dr Conspiracy have you put any time in arguing with Truthers? Do you not find them equally or more dangerous than Birthers?

    When you talk about your wish for the death of a sitting US President, you start to get into a sticky breach of national security zone.

    But Lucas Smith doesn’t care anything about the law. He tries to justify his child molestation and selling human organs.

  117. avatar
    The Magic M March 22, 2011 at 4:33 am #

    > However, to birthers any official post search’ confirmation that there is no record of any arrival/departure of Smith would simply further corroborate that Kenyan Authorities are all “in on it” .

    Talk about double standard. If the birthers applied their own “reasoning” and standard of proof consistently, they would have to conclude “because there is no evidence that Lucas was ever in Kenya, it is proven he never was, therefore the Kenyan BC is a fake”.

    To give at least some credit to them, I think the majority of birthers doesn’t believe in the authenticity of the Kenyan BC. However it serves them as a rhethorical device by alleging it was “no better or worse than the COLB published on the Internet”.

  118. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 22, 2011 at 8:56 am #

    The Magic M: Talk about double standard. If the birthers applied their own “reasoning” and standard of proof consistently, they would have to conclude “because there is no evidence that Lucas was ever in Kenya, it is proven he never was, therefore the Kenyan BC is a fake”.

    Since the Smith story involves someone taking a bribe, one can never expect anyone to corroborate his story. Since Smith himself has no personal credibility and his story lies solely on his word, his story lacks credibility too. Even if Smith could prove he went to Kenya, that means nothing more than that he went to Kenya. It has no bearing on where Barack Obama was born. For this reason, I really have no interest in Smith travel documents.

    What I would consider real evidence would be an interview with Heltan Maganga published in The Nation confirming the certificate.

  119. avatar
    Majority Will March 22, 2011 at 9:23 am #

    Sean: When you talk about your wish for the death of a sitting US President, you start to get into a sticky breach of national security zone.

    Threatening the President of the United States is a class D felony under United States Code Title 18, Section 871. Let the law determine if it’s free speech or a realistic threat.

  120. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 22, 2011 at 10:27 am #

    Woofie: Dr Conspiracy have you put any time in arguing with Truthers? Do you not find them equally or more dangerous than Birthers?

    No, I have no experience with Truthers. It would be my impression, though, that birthers with their intense hatred focused on one individual who still is in power pose the greater threat of some violent act.

  121. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 22, 2011 at 10:31 am #

    Woofie: [quoting] I look forward to the day when justice is served and BOTH Bush and Obama are strung up on ropes in front of the White House and hung (sentenced, legally, to death by a US Court) in front of their families.

    I do not know any way that someone can be legally sentenced to death by hanging in the United States.

  122. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) March 22, 2011 at 10:40 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I do not know any way that someone can be legally sentenced to death by hanging in the United States.

    Yeah I dont think they even do hangings anymore.

  123. avatar
    Sef March 22, 2011 at 10:47 am #

    I just checked the voter registration requirements in Iowa. The website http://www.sos.state.ia.us/elections/VoterInformation/VoterRegistration.html says felons cannot register unless their rights have been restored by President or Governor. Other states restore the right to register upon full completion of sentence, including any parole. I don’t think our Lucas friend will be voting for or against President Obama any time soon.

  124. avatar
    Mike Hudson March 22, 2011 at 10:51 am #

    Here is Lucas’ first comment from yesterday regarding Obama and Bush. Until yesterday I don’t think that Lucas has ever wanted to see Obama behind bars or executed.

    I do not support the United States of America attacking, or supporting the attack on, Libya.

    I used to always say that I only seek deportation of Barack Obama to Kenya, or Zanzibar or Tanzania and that I did not seek imprisonment or other punishments.

    However, in view of what is happening now in Libya I would like to see de facto president Barack Obama tried for war crimes along with President George W. Bush and the both of them sentenced to death (legal execution) by the US Courts (not international Courts).

  125. avatar
    Mike Hudson March 22, 2011 at 10:58 am #

    Sef:
    I just checked the voter registration requirements in Iowa.The website http://www.sos.state.ia.us/elections/VoterInformation/VoterRegistration.html says felons cannot register unless their rights have been restored by President or Governor.Other states restore the right to register upon full completion of sentence, including any parole. I don’t think our Lucas friend will be voting for or against President Obama any time soon.

    As of sometime in 2005 all felons in Iowa that have completed their sentences have the right to vote for President.

    Gov. Tom Vilsack of Iowa announced yesterday that he would restore voting rights for all felons who have completed their sentences, ending what advocates for voting rights had called one of the most restrictive disenfranchisement laws in the country.

    The governor’s order, which he plans to sign on July 4, will make an estimated 80,000 ex-felons eligible to vote. Advocates hope that the order, which comes after a similar restoration of voting rights in Nebraska, will encourage other states with similarly restrictive laws to broaden voting privileges for ex-felons.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/18/national/18iowa.html

  126. avatar
    The Magic M March 22, 2011 at 11:00 am #

    > Even if Smith could prove he went to Kenya, that means nothing more than that he went to Kenya. It has no bearing on where Barack Obama was born. For this reason, I really have no interest in Smith travel documents.

    I was applying the same logic the birthers apply to the ominous “long form BC”.
    If Smith can prove he went to Kenya, it doesn’t mean I will accept the “Kenyan BC” as authentic.
    But if he cannot prove he went to Kenya, I will keep considering it a forgery for that reason alone.

    > What I would consider real evidence would be an interview with Heltan Maganga published in The Nation confirming the certificate.

    Lucas won’t even get him to say that his first name is “Helton” or that he picks a new vowel for every day of the week so that on normal workdays, his name is “Heltan” on Mondays, “Helten” on Tuesdays, … And that he’s got 5 different stamps to match.

    In fact, this is, IMO, *the* key goof in the Kenyan BC. And Lucas can’t spin it into a “he deliberately misspelled his name to make it look like a forgery if anyone questions it” unless he wants to be taken for a complete lunatic.

  127. avatar
    Sef March 22, 2011 at 11:00 am #

    Mike Hudson: As of sometime in 2005 all felons in Iowa that have completed their sentences have the right to vote for President.

    Gov. Tom Vilsack of Iowa announced yesterday that he would restore voting rights for all felons who have completed their sentences, ending what advocates for voting rights had called one of the most restrictive disenfranchisement laws in the country.

    The governor’s order, which he plans to sign on July 4, will make an estimated 80,000 ex-felons eligible to vote. Advocates hope that the order, which comes after a similar restoration of voting rights in Nebraska, will encourage other states with similarly restrictive laws to broaden voting privileges for ex-felons.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/18/national/18iowa.html

    Thanks for the update.

  128. avatar
    JoZeppy March 22, 2011 at 11:01 am #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Yeah I dont think they even do hangings anymore.

    The states of New Hampshire and Washington stil have hanging as the official method of execution. That being said, there have only been 3 hangings since 1976. However, the official method of execution by the federal government is by lethal injection.

    http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/methods-execution

  129. avatar
    JoZeppy March 22, 2011 at 11:03 am #

    Actually, to correct my prior post, New Hampshire and Washington have hanging as a form of execution, but lethal injection is the primary method.

  130. avatar
    Majority Will March 22, 2011 at 11:06 am #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Yeah I dont think they even do hangings anymore.

    Re: Hanging as an execution method in the U.S.

    “Only the states of Washington and New Hampshire presently retain hanging as an option. In New Hampshire, if it is found to be “impractical” to carry out the execution by lethal injection, then the condemned will be hanged, and in Washington the condemned still has an outright choice between hanging and lethal injection.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanging#cite_note-59

    New Hampshire, TITLE LXII, CRIMINAL CODE, Section 630:5:
    XIV. The commissioner of corrections or his designee shall determine the substance or substances to be used and the procedures to be used in any execution, provided, however, that if for any reason the commissioner finds it to be impractical to carry out the punishment of death by administration of the required lethal substance or substances, the sentence of death may be carried out by hanging under the provisions of law for the death penalty by hanging in effect on December 31, 1986.

    Washington:
    Since June 6, 1996 inmates have been able to choose if their execution will be carried out by lethal injection or hanging. If the inmate makes no decision, the default method is lethal injection. It should also be noted that Washington is the only state with an active gallows (Delaware dismantled theirs in 2003).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Washington#Method

    Charles Rodman Campbell was a convicted murderer who was executed by hanging on May 27th, 1994 by the state of Washington. A total of 110 executions have been carried out in the state and its predecessor territories since 1849. All but three were by hanging.

  131. avatar
    The Magic M March 22, 2011 at 11:06 am #

    Adding to that last paragraph:

    The ultra-right-wing part of our German wingnuts did such a thing once. They produced allegedly authentic documents that supposedly were official authorizations by the US government (or the Allied High Command or whatever) that allowed them to act on behalf of the German Reich (y’know, that particular kind of cranks who think the Reich of 1917 still exists and the German state is just a fake).
    However on close inspection it turned out the “English” documents were so badly written they could only have been created by using an online translator on a German source text (some technical terms were even translated literally without making any sense).
    When faced with that observation, for a short time (until pulling the plug on this particular ruse and never mentioning it again) they actually claimed that the US government had deliberately written them in bad English to be able to deny their authenticity, should those documents ever become public.

    So you see, it’s not far-fetched to think such an “explanation” for the “Helton/Heltan” issue might surface sooner or later…

    Or, simpler, that some Kenyan official simply impersonated Heltan Maganga. You know, for the gullible people who desperately want to believe in the Kenyan BC, any explanation will do.

  132. avatar
    Mike Hudson March 22, 2011 at 11:08 am #

    It appea

    Dr. Conspiracy: I do not know any way that someone can be legally sentenced to death by hanging in the United States.

    One of your cronies that has copied and pasted Lucas’ comment about execution deliberately forgot to copy and paste Lucas’ first comment from yesterday which sheds more light on the reasoning behind Lucas’ new position on punishment.

    I do not support the United States of America attacking, or supporting the attack on, Libya.

    I used to always say that I only seek deportation of Barack Obama to Kenya, or Zanzibar or Tanzania and that I did not seek imprisonment or other punishments.

    However, in view of what is happening now in Libya I would like to see de facto president Barack Obama tried for war crimes along with President George W. Bush and the both of them sentenced to death (legal execution) by the US Courts (not international Courts).

  133. avatar
    Majority Will March 22, 2011 at 11:10 am #

    The Magic M: . . . unless he wants to be taken for a complete lunatic.

    Bingo.

  134. avatar
    Majority Will March 22, 2011 at 11:12 am #

    Mike Hudson:
    It appea

    One of your cronies that has copied and pasted Lucas’ comment about execution deliberately forgot to copy and paste Lucas’ first comment from yesterday which sheds more light on the reasoning behind Lucas’ new position on punishment.

    Cronies?

  135. avatar
    gorefan March 22, 2011 at 11:28 am #

    Mike Hudson: Here is Lucas’ first comment from yesterday regarding Obama and Bush. Until yesterday I don’t think that Lucas has ever wanted to see Obama behind bars or executed.

    Why doesn’t he include President Clinton (Kosovo), President H. W. Bush (Panama), President Reagan (Grenada), President Ford (Cambodia)?

  136. avatar
    Majority Will March 22, 2011 at 11:35 am #

    gorefan: Why doesn’t he include President Clinton (Kosovo), President H. W. Bush (Panama), President Reagan (Grenada), President Ford (Cambodia)?

    President Reagan (Grenada, Nicaragua and Libya)

    President H. W. Bush (Panama and Angola)

    Presidents Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon (Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos)

  137. avatar
    Woofie March 22, 2011 at 12:00 pm #

    Mike Hudson: One of your cronies that has copied and pasted Lucas’ comment about execution deliberately forgot to copy and paste Lucas’ first comment from yesterday which sheds more light on the reasoning behind Lucas’ new position on punishment.

    Deliberately? Too many conspiracies for you….. I wonder if its not possible that I simply didnt see it ? naaaa “deliberately” sounds better

    As to the birther phenomenon in general…..birtherism is a minor
    curiosity for most on the right. I believe it will have a negative affect on Obamas reelection efforts as it says very simply that a whole lot of people dont trust what Obama says. . Most politicians want to be considered “one of the people” ..they want every scrap of paper in their lives enshrined in a museum/library….and they want their narratives to assume mythic proportions ie “George Washington could not tell a lie….”

    Obama seems to want to demean those who doubt him which is a very curious political strategy. The next election will be interesting

  138. avatar
    Scientist March 22, 2011 at 12:02 pm #

    Woofie: Smith has more in common with Truthers and Leftist Bush haters than he does anyone on the right

    The far-right and far-left often have much in common. The only member of Congress to mention the “I-word’ with regard to Obama is Dennis Kucinich. Most of the Tea Party guys are against the Libyan action as well.

  139. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) March 22, 2011 at 12:15 pm #

    Mike Hudson: It appeaOne of your cronies that has copied and pasted Lucas’ comment about execution deliberately forgot to copy and paste Lucas’ first comment from yesterday which sheds more light on the reasoning behind Lucas’ new position on punishment.I do not support the United States of America attacking, or supporting the attack on, Libya.I used to always say that I only seek deportation of Barack Obama to Kenya, or Zanzibar or Tanzania and that I did not seek imprisonment or other punishments.However, in view of what is happening now in Libya I would like to see de facto president Barack Obama tried for war crimes along with President George W. Bush and the both of them sentenced to death (legal execution) by the US Courts (not international Courts).

    How is Lucas’ first comment any better with the second one? Lucas is an admitted child molestor. How could anyone take his claims seriously? Especially the whole “deportation of Obama”. Based on what? Lucas goes further than most birthers in claiming Obama is somehow an illegal alien.

  140. avatar
    Mike Hudson March 22, 2011 at 12:23 pm #

    Based on what?Lucas goes further than most birthers in claiming Obama is somehow an illegal alien.

    “President Barack Obama was, by law, born a subject of the Sultan of Zanzibar.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeC77eN-nuQ&feature=channel_video_title

  141. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) March 22, 2011 at 12:23 pm #

    Majority Will: Cronies?

    Holy Macaronies!

  142. avatar
    Sean March 22, 2011 at 1:59 pm #

    Mike Hudson:
    Here is Lucas’ first comment from yesterday regarding Obama and Bush. Until yesterday I don’t think that Lucas has ever wanted to see Obama behind bars or executed.

    I do not support the United States of America attacking, or supporting the attack on, Libya.


    I used to always say that I only seek deportation of Barack Obama to Kenya, or Zanzibar or Tanzania and that I did not seek imprisonment or other punishments.


    However, in view of what is happening now in Libya I would like to see de facto president Barack Obama tried for war crimes along with President George W. Bush and the both of them sentenced to death (legal execution) by the US Courts (not international Courts).


    Regardless.

    You start talking about a sitting or former US President being hung in front of the White House, don’t be surprised to have a visit from the Secret Service.

  143. avatar
    Sean March 22, 2011 at 2:00 pm #

    Majority Will: Cronies?

    Yeah Cronies. We’re an Obot gang.

  144. avatar
    G March 22, 2011 at 2:06 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: No, I have no experience with Truthers. It would be my impression, though, that birthers with their intense hatred focused on one individual who still is in power pose the greater threat of some violent act.

    You do to an extent. You probably just don’t realize it. The point is that there is a certain amount of “Truthers” within the overall “birther” population. So, you do when there is that overlap. Obviously, Berg is the most well-known of that particular blend. However, I know I’ve argued with birthers online quite a few times in which Truther crap eventually spewed out as part of that person’s overall conspiracy rants. I can’t recall for sure (just because I wasn’t specifically paying attention to tracking it) but with the volume of posts that occur here, some of that may have occured on this site.

    If you read comments that birthers post on the blogosphere, you see that Truther meme pop up ever so often. I’m sure others have noticed it as well.

    I think it simply comes down to a certain type of paranoid conspiracy mind that buys into anti-government sentiment in general.

  145. avatar
    Majority Will March 22, 2011 at 3:09 pm #

    G: You do to an extent.You probably just don’t realize it.The point is that there is a certain amount of “Truthers” within the overall “birther” population.So, you do when there is that overlap.Obviously, Berg is the most well-known of that particular blend.However, I know I’ve argued with birthers online quite a few times in which Truther crap eventually spewed out as part of that person’s overall conspiracy rants.I can’t recall for sure (just because I wasn’t specifically paying attention to tracking it) but with the volume of posts that occur here, some of that may have occured on this site.

    If you read comments that birthers post on the blogosphere, you see that Truther meme pop up ever so often.I’m sure others have noticed it as well.

    I think it simply comes down to a certain type of paranoid conspiracy mind that buys into anti-government sentiment in general.

    The NWO seems to be a popular underlying meme for birthers and other conspiracy theorists.

  146. avatar
    James M March 22, 2011 at 3:48 pm #

    Woofie: The next election will be interesting

    What will be interesting is the sheer absence of any mention of these issues from any of the candidates themselves, or anyone seriously involved in any campaign.

  147. avatar
    Slartibartfast March 22, 2011 at 3:52 pm #

    James M: What will be interesting is the sheer absence of any mention of these issues from any of the candidates themselves, or anyone seriously involved in any campaign.

    I think that the birthers, to the extent that they have any effect on the election at all, will help President Obama get reelected.

  148. avatar
    Joey March 22, 2011 at 4:18 pm #

    Slartibartfast: I think that the birthers, to the extent that they have any effect on the election at all, will help President Obama get reelected.

    There is a large and fast growing bloc of voters who, like President Obama, constantly have their citizenship and eligibility to be in America challenged: Latinos. Obama needs a significant percentage of their votes to win reelection.
    But then, never underestimate the Republican Party’s ability to nominate another Bob Dole or John McCain and make it easy for Obama.

  149. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 22, 2011 at 7:05 pm #

    I was reading the interview with Lucas Smith over at the Post & Email blog and ran across a comment by Seizethecarp:

    A relentless troll with a vendetta against Smith (Mik Taerg) and the anti-birther supporters of the troll will claim that Maganga’s name was misspelled or that he wasn’t the Chief Administrator on February 19, 2009, but neither of those two claims by the troll and troll supporters has been proved.

    I believe the correct spelling of Heltan Maganga’s first name has been proved through his LinkedIn profile as well as various professional listings. One needn’t rely on newspapers for this one.

    I did my own search on administrators at CPGH, and found newspaper articles (some now offline) showing Dr. Merry Jennifer Othigo as the Chief Administrator on February 26, 2009. That’s the correct spelling of her name, by the way.

    Articles (all from 2008) mentioning Othigo as administrator include:

    http://www.unmultimedia.org/radio/english/detail/36898.html
    http://www.nation.co.ke/News/-/1056/499590/-/view/printVersion/-/lsej39/-/index.html
    http://www.nation.co.ke/News/-/1056/473466/-/item/0/-/10cmqw4z/-/index.html

  150. avatar
    Keith March 22, 2011 at 8:16 pm #

    Joey: But then, never underestimate the Republican Party’s ability to nominate another Bob Dole or John McCain and make it easy for Obama.

    That seems to be all they have left in the party.

  151. avatar
    G March 22, 2011 at 8:25 pm #

    Majority Will: The NWO seems to be a popular underlying meme for birthers and other conspiracy theorists.

    Yes, it sure is. It is pretty much the standard “bogeyman” for the conspiracy-minded that there is some secret cabal controlling the world. There are quite a few variations out there, where they identify other “secret society” groups in control…but they seem to view them all as part of the NWO.

  152. avatar
    The Magic M March 23, 2011 at 5:43 am #

    > There are quite a few variations out there

    The most common being that it’s always “the others”. European wingnuts tend to see the US (plus Israel) behind the NWO whereas their American counterparts blame Europe or “the UN” most of the time.

    > Yeah Cronies. We’re an Obot gang.

    I like the word “thug” for some reason. Though that may be because my only contact with these issues is listening to rap music. ;)

  153. avatar
    Mik Taerg March 23, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

    Dr.Conspiracy, Mr.Smith,

    concerning the Historical Flaws I would like to point out that Heltan is now Maganga’s official name according to the Republic of Kenya and not just to various Kenyan news sites.

    In 2011 The Gazette of Kenya has published
    MEDICAL PRACTITIONERS RETENTION REGISTER, 2010

    first of all you need to know what ithe Lw of Kenya

    THE MEDICAL PRACTITIONERS AND DENTISTS ACT

    (Cap. 253)

    is

    it is explained here:

    http://www.kenyalaw.org/kenyalaw/klr_app/view_content.php?ContentHistoryID=2292

    the above law also exlains that there is an official regiter of precticing doctors and that

    5. (1)For the purpose of this Act, there shall be a registrar of Medical Practitioners and Dentists.

    (2) The Director of Medical Services shall be the Registrar, and shall perform such duties in connection with the register as are prescribed by this Act.

    (3) The Registrar shall keep a register of medical practitioners and dentists in the prescribed form. ”

    now let’s go to the “official” register signed by the official registrar

    Dr. Francis M. Kimani
    Director of Medical Services
    Ministry of Medical Services
    (also found here: http://www.statehousekenya.go.ke/government/medical_services.htm)

    http://medicalboard.co.ke/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=35

    something about the medical board not just any online directory (quoted from the above site)

    “The Medical Practitioners and Dentists Board is a statutory authority established under Cap 253 Laws of Kenya to regulate the practice of medicine and dentistry in the country………………

    ……………………….

    Medical Practitioners & Dentists Board Functions ….
    ……

    REGISTRATION AND LICENCING

    1.To direct and supervise the compilation and maintenance of a register and all records required to be kept under sections 6,13,14,15 of the Act.
    2.To regulate private practice.
    3.To such things as are incidental to the performance of all or any of the foregoing functions.”

    here is the specific name listed

    MAGANGA, HELTAN MNJAMA P. O. BOX 41009 MOMBASA 80100 MBChB(Nbi)1993 M.Med(Nbi)2001 GENERAL SURGERY

    So according to the Government of Kenya Heltan is the correct spelling

  154. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) March 23, 2011 at 2:02 pm #

    G: Yes, it sure is. It is pretty much the standard “bogeyman” for the conspiracy-minded that there is some secret cabal controlling the world. There are quite a few variations out there, where they identify other “secret society” groups in control…but they seem to view them all as part of the NWO.

    Dont forget to throw in the Federal Reserve into the conspiracy and that the United States is a corporation

  155. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) March 23, 2011 at 2:04 pm #

    Keith: That seems to be all they have left in the party.

    There are plenty of more bushs for them to run I’m sure they’ll try Jeb and then Neil after that

  156. avatar
    Majority Will March 23, 2011 at 2:31 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): There are plenty of more bushs for them to run I’m sure they’ll try Jeb and then Neil after that

    If we’re going to get bushwhacked again, please nominate Laura.

  157. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) March 23, 2011 at 3:10 pm #

    Majority Will: If we’re going to get bushwhacked again, please nominate Laura.

    No I’d really like to see the balls they would have to run Neil. You may recall Neil was engulfed in the Savings and Loan scandal as he was on the Silverado Savings and Loan board of Directors. There’s also 3 stock trades he made that netted him over 700,000 in one day after good news for Kopin Corporation where he was a consultant. The kicker though is his messy divorce. You see Neil was banging thailand hookers while he was overseas. He came back and gave his wife an STD.

    Maybe they can just get the Bush’s baked beans family to run.

  158. avatar
    Sef March 23, 2011 at 3:14 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): You see Neil was banging thailand hookers while he was overseas. He came back and gave his wife an STD.

    If they were underage he could be in for even more trouble.

  159. avatar
    Majority Will March 23, 2011 at 3:33 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): The kicker though is his messy divorce. You see Neil was banging thailand hookers while he was overseas. He came back and gave his wife an STD.

    Next on Fox.

  160. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 24, 2011 at 12:26 pm #

    My research project continues to go more slowly than expected, but I did obtain one bit of pertinent information:

    Heltan Maganga was Chief Administrator of the Coast Provincial General Hospital from June 1, 2009 until December 4, 2010.

  161. avatar
    gorefan March 24, 2011 at 12:47 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Heltan Maganga was Chief Administrator of the Coast Provincial General Hospital from June 1, 2009 until December 4, 2010.

    Is Dr. Maganga still at CPGH? And who was the chief administrator before Dr. Maganga?
    Dr. Othigo or Dr. Shikely?

  162. avatar
    Sef March 24, 2011 at 12:57 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    My research project continues to go more slowly than expected, but I did obtain one bit of pertinent information:

    Heltan Maganga was Chief Administrator of the Coast Provincial General Hospital from June 1, 2009 until December 4, 2010.

    Doc, any comments on these observations? http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/03/joseph-farah-confesses-to-being-a-liar/#comment-99448

  163. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 24, 2011 at 1:55 pm #

    Sef: Dr. Conspiracy:
    My research project continues to go more slowly than expected, but I did obtain one bit of pertinent information:

    Heltan Maganga was Chief Administrator of the Coast Provincial General Hospital from June 1, 2009 until December 4, 2010.

    Doc, any comments on these observations? http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/03/joseph-farah-confesses-to-being-a-liar/#comment-99448

    I find references to the Coast Province and Coast Provincial General Hospital. It appears that either both are used or that the name of the hospital changed at some point. Here is a photo of the hospital showing a sign with “PROVINCE”.

    http://www.sign-post.org/programs/kenya/#Coast

  164. avatar
    Reality Check March 24, 2011 at 5:20 pm #

    While we are waiting for he, Lucas Smith, to forge, I mean find, his travel documents to prove he traveled to Kenya in February 2009 here is a short musical interlude.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2mqqCMu-LM

  165. avatar
    Sef March 24, 2011 at 5:35 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I find references to the Coast Province and Coast Provincial General Hospital. It appears that either both are used or that the name of the hospital changed at some point. Here is a photo of the hospital showing a sign with “PROVINCE”.

    http://www.sign-post.org/programs/kenya/#Coast

    Thanks for that reference, Doc. I have another “anomaly” for you. Try to do an nslookup on cpgh.co.ke. My DNS server can’t find it. Anyone else care to try?