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Unnamed person says anonymous source says Obama born in Kenya

The Post & Email website continues to assume what I have know for some time: birthers will believe anything bad about Obama. It is still counterintuitive that an anonymous person would be “interviewed” about what he “knows” about Obama’s Kenyan birth certificate and that anyone should believe it. It’s a birther rule: sources that have a reason to know something are never named, and sources who are named have no reason to know anything. Birther credulity continues to amaze me, even after all this time.

The P&E story is something like: someone with business contacts in Kenya talked to someone else whose uncle’s gardener also gardens for someone who is a government official and who casually mentioned they had overheard at their golf club that Obama’s birth certificate was secretly being kept in the office of the Prime Minister of Kenya. That’s an approximate version of the story; the original is a little fuzzier.

Of course if the birth certificate were actually under the control of Prime Minister Odinga, how could our intrepid inspector Lucas Smith have obtained a copy from a hospital? This question is raised at the P&E, and Mr. Smith’s document is roundly dissed. The objection: English units instead of metric.

Lucas Smith has responded on his blog that English units are fine. I didn’t bother to check his argument. However, as to government standards, English units seem to be in use in 1961.

image

Doctors would probably have used whatever they were trained to use. The “correct” answer is really unimportant because Obama was born in Hawaii, so they’re all lying at some point.

228 Responses to Unnamed person says anonymous source says Obama born in Kenya

  1. avatar
    Judge Mental July 21, 2011 at 2:44 am #

    Lucas Smith can somehow respond within nanoseconds with documented chapter and verse when a con man/woman makes a careless allegation which the confirmation biased Rondeau gormlessly swallows but which could have been very easily refuted in minutes by any average village idiot.

    Yet when challenged to evidence that he’s ever been in Africa, let alone Kenya, something equally easy for anyone who has been to Africa and/or Kenya to do, he runs a country mile and has been doing so ever since many of his fellow birthers first challenged him to provide such evidence.

  2. avatar
    Lupin July 21, 2011 at 3:16 am #

    “The Post & Email website continues to assume what I have know for some time: birthers will believe anything bad about Obama.”

    As long as Obama remains black, there can be no compromise with the Usurper.

  3. avatar
    AnotherBird July 21, 2011 at 3:56 am #

    The obvious next question is how long has it been in the Prime Minister’s office? As this unnamed source was involved in the original conversation they obviously wouldn’t be able to answer the question. Only a birther would put credence into this “unnamed person says anonymous source.” I would say this is one story the P&E should have passed on.

  4. avatar
    Judge Mental July 21, 2011 at 5:21 am #

    What kind of positive sensible contribution to research is any interviewer or interviewee ignorant enough to think that the Uk or their commonwealth and colonies were using metric measurements in 1961 realistically likely to ever be able to make about events of that year?

    Hell, the UK is still only partially metric today in 2011 despite first announcing the intentions to do so in 1965. Only very recently the UK won a legal battle with the EU to be permitted to continue using lbs and ozs, feet and inches.

  5. avatar
    The Magic M July 21, 2011 at 5:45 am #

    Breaking news: “U K L Lee” identified?

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/07/20/1961-hawaii-department-of-health-registrar-identified/

    Still don’t know what to make of this. After all, it’s shutting down one argument that actually convinced some people the LFBC is a forgery (“Ukulele, haha, that’s too obvious!”).
    So are they sabotaging their own (or WND’s) theories now? Or are they up to something else here?

  6. avatar
    Judge Mental July 21, 2011 at 6:06 am #

    The Magic M: Breaking news: “U K L Lee” identified?http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/07/20/1961-hawaii-department-of-health-registrar-identified/Still don’t know what to make of this. After all, it’s shutting down one argument that actually convinced some people the LFBC is a forgery (“Ukulele, haha, that’s too obvious!”).So are they sabotaging their own (or WND’s) theories now? Or are they up to something else here?

    Don’t think anybody’s up to anything there Magic, it’s just a good bit of research in finding that a Mrs Verna K L Lee lived in Hoolulu and worked for the Health Dept in 1961 and who appears to be the local registrar concerned.

    Where it can take a bit of an out there sudden left turn at the traffic signals is the apparent assumption by the blog site who did the research that there is something suspicious about someone (a) whose job involves signing their name on certificates umpteen times a week and (b) who has a very short signature consisting of only six letters and (c) who signs in a very plain and simple almost printing style…..being able to sign that short name quite consistently in a very similar way.

    To you and me that is exactly what we would expect. To them, such a simple short signature appearing to be used in a very consistent style in different certificates apparently signals some kind of corroboration that it is part of an oveall forged bc in Obama’s case. If you can see the sense in that let me know cos it’s got me beat.

  7. avatar
    J.Potter July 21, 2011 at 7:08 am #

    If your penmanship is too good, it’s suspicious. If your signature has become lazy after years of repetitive signings, it’s suspicious. It’s all suspicious. When everything is suspicious, is it the world that is suspect, or the mind of the observer that is suspicious?

    Why can’t they see …. what they’re doing to me … why don’t they believe a word I say?
    We can’t go on together, we can’t build our dreams …. Here we go again, asking where I’ve been {since birth} … When Orly, you know, I’ve never lied to you…

    Apologies to The King for the paraphrase.

  8. avatar
    Thrifty July 21, 2011 at 7:30 am #

    Well I’m convinced. I’m going full birther now. You obot libtards can suck it from here on out.

  9. avatar
    The Magic M July 21, 2011 at 7:34 am #

    From reading the comments over at WTPOTUS, it appears that (apart from the “pasted signature” argument which doesn’t require anyone to know who “U K L Lee” is) they’re now off to inventing more “suspicious” “inconsistencies” around Lee, now that they know there’s a real person behind.
    Be ready to read more stuff along the lines of “she’s conveniently dead by now” (not sure of that BTW), “we need confirmation she was on duty that day”, “Hawaii refuses to confirm she worked for them” or “she was the one who fraudulently entered wrong information on the original vault BC, therefore it can’t be trusted, if it exists”… *sigh*

  10. avatar
    Pastor Charmley July 21, 2011 at 7:45 am #

    Let’s see, we have an anonymous source reporting what someone told someone else who told them. Totally believable!

    There’s a word for this: Hearsay. And anonymous hearsay as well. As evidence it has less value than a ten bob note. There are no names at all, we are just told to “accept this because the person is trustworthy in my opinion.” Sorry, no. That’s not how it works.

    And the idea that a UK colony is 1961 would be using metric “because it’s a British colony’ is absurd. The UK still used imperial measures then, and as has already been said, is only semi-metric today. Leaving those of us who were only taught metric at school hopelessly confused.

  11. avatar
    Judge Mental July 21, 2011 at 7:59 am #

    Nah nah Pastor…..worse than that…..it has less value than a ‘nine’ bob note!

  12. avatar
    Bovril July 21, 2011 at 8:11 am #

    That would be as bent as a nine bob note and as much use as a cholocate fireguard

  13. avatar
    kimba July 21, 2011 at 8:33 am #

    AnotherBird: Only a birther would put credence into this “unnamed person says anonymous source.” I would say this is one story the P&E should have passed on.

    It’s a teaser to keep the true believers on the hook and pressing the paypal button. If someone who knows someone else was told somebody overheard something somewhere, it means word’s going around, then it’s only a matter of time (and money) until one of those someones actually steps forward. Any. Day. Now.

  14. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 21, 2011 at 8:43 am #

    I was watching this thing on TV about signature authentication where they were questioning John Hancock’s John Hancock because it didn’t look like America’s iconic John Hancock’s John Hancock.

    J.Potter: If your penmanship is too good, it’s suspicious. If your signature has become lazy after years of repetitive signings, it’s suspicious

  15. avatar
    Judge Mental July 21, 2011 at 9:00 am #

    Bovril: That would be as bent as a nine bob note and as much use as a cholocate fireguard

    Ah Bovril….that reminds me of the band that was being put together with Placido Domingo, Jose Carreras, Luciano Pavarotti and Boy George….they were going to call it “Three Tenners and a Nine Bob Note”.

  16. avatar
    Tarrant July 21, 2011 at 10:00 am #

    One reason I think we’ve seen so many “anonymous sources” lately is what happens when someone isn’t particularly anonymous – they get asked questions and their story inevitably falls apart. Let’s look at Tim Adams. Imagine if the story was “unnamed Hawaii election clerk says Hawaii has no birth certificate”. That story would still get touted, far more than I see it is with the guy identified Sure, a few birthers bring up Adams these days but not many.

    Why? Because once people knew who he was they found his story didn’t hold water. He wasn’t employed when he said he was, and someone in his position wouldn’t have access to the data he said he had access to. When challenged he did an Ashlee Simpson jig off the stage saying “Nothing to see here!” Even WND doesn’t bother with him anymore.

    As long as they don’t identify the informant, they can claim it is 100% credible and don’t even have to defend it because if anything IS debunked there’s nobody to point at.

  17. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 21, 2011 at 10:19 am #

    So, I guess that translated into American English is something like:

    http://www.strangecosmos.com/content/item/13689.html

    Judge Mental: Ah Bovril….that reminds me of the band that was being put together with Placido Domingo, Jose Carreras, Luciano Pavarotti and Boy George….they were going to call it “Three Tenners and a Nine Bob Note”.

  18. avatar
    Rickey July 21, 2011 at 12:15 pm #

    The Magic M:
    From reading the comments over at WTPOTUS, it appears that (apart from the “pasted signature” argument which doesn’t require anyone to know who “U K L Lee” is) they’re now off to inventing more “suspicious” “inconsistencies” around Lee, now that they know there’s a real person behind.
    Be ready to read more stuff along the lines of “she’s conveniently dead by now” (not sure of that BTW), “we need confirmation she was on duty that day”, “Hawaii refuses to confirm she worked for them” or “she was the one who fraudulently entered wrong information on the original vault BC, therefore it can’t be trusted, if it exists”… *sigh*

    The Social Security Death Index lists three people who could be her:

    Verna K. Lee, died in Wisconsin in 1998 at age 85

    Verna K. Lee, died in California in 2003 at age 77

    Verna Cawdery Lee, died in Hawaii last October at age 80

    Of course, we have no way of knowing if the real Verna K.L. Lee is one of the three listed above, or even if her surname continued to be “Lee” for the rest of her life. There also is a Verna K. Freitas who died in Honolulu in 1999 at the age of 63.

    However, it wouldn’t surprise me if some birther decides that Verna Cawdery Lee was the former registrar and that Obama couldn’t take a chance on releasing his LFBC until she was out of the way.

  19. avatar
    G July 21, 2011 at 1:54 pm #

    I think you meant to say “plausible” instead of “credible” in terms of what they can claim with an anonymous source. The very essence of having an unknown identify as a source calls credibility into question, regardless of the issue. At best, you are left with a “plausible” or even only “possible” account, pending further verification of the information and/or authentication of the source.

    Of course, like the Tim Adams example cited, once the source is identified and looked into, even “possible” can quickly turn into “extremely improbable” and “not credible” in a heartbeat…

    Tarrant: As long as they don’t identify the informant, they can claim it is 100% credible and don’t even have to defend it because if anything IS debunked there’s nobody to point at.

  20. avatar
    J.Potter July 21, 2011 at 2:03 pm #

    The audience over at WND isn’t making those distinctions, and WND knows it.Even when dealing with a named source, they’re are coached and walked through the talking points of the official narrative, and whatever they have to say is made to conform. The stories read almost exactly the same. With imaginary(?) anonymous sources, Tarrant is right. More control and deniability for WND, don’t have to worry about someone recanting or being exposed. And still impresses the easily impressed! Typically craven.

  21. avatar
    Tarrant July 21, 2011 at 2:26 pm #

    There’s also the “minor detail” that they’re probably running out of people willing to go on the record with a claim.

    It’s meaningless for “Random Joe” to say it’s a forgery or whatnot. wND is happy to publish that but it fades away. It’s far more useful to actually have a certified examiner say it is, or have an election clerk (lying or no, Mr. Adams) say something, etc. But the people in those jobs, whether or not they believe the claims, are not going to risk those jobs by going public.

    They did find the occasional state-level representative willing to make birther claims. But that’s it. None want ridicule. Living in DC, I know a number of House and Senate staffers. Any one of them would be fired if they brought that kind of ridicule on their boss by taking a public birther position. WND knows this, so they simply make them up. They can easily write a dozen articles about “State officials” and “High ranking members” without having to get a name.

    In a little while I bet WND will come out with an “unnamed source within the federal courts” claiming that Obama’s thugs demanded that Orly’s lawsuit be dismissed. Of course, it will be, WND will claim credit, and the PayPal buttons will go cha-cha-ching.

  22. avatar
    BatGuano July 21, 2011 at 3:20 pm #

    Tarrant:

    In a little while I bet WND will come out with an “unnamed source within the federal courts” claiming that Obama’s thugs demanded that Orly’s lawsuit be dismissed.

    one of my favorite moments of the birther fiasco was when orly shrieked out in front of fox news “where are our woodward and bernstein?”. “all the president’s men” would have been a very dull movie if they just would have printed “unknown guy in a parking garage says……”.

  23. avatar
    J.Potter July 21, 2011 at 3:30 pm #

    oh, orly. woodward and bernstein had the goods. your version (if they exist) are still looking. funny how, in a time of paper and dial-up, scandals were still uncovered. Now in the internet age, with hundreds, thousands(?) motivated and radicalized …. no one can find the goods on Obama. Just keep on lookin’!

    No doubt tucked away in the warehouse, inside the Lost Ark, which is itself behind the Iraqi WMDs.

  24. avatar
    Nathanael July 21, 2011 at 8:19 pm #

    Judge Mental:
    Yet when challenged to evidence that he’s ever been in Africa, let alone Kenya, something equally easy for anyone who has been to Africa and/or Kenya to do, he runs a country mile

    OK, Lucas, forget the passport and the Kenyan visa stamp, how about a PHOTO? If *I* were going to Kenya, you can bet your grandpappy I’d take a camera, just for tourist moments, if nothing else. And if I’m heading back to the states to make some controversial claims, what better evidence than a picture of me standing next to the prime minister in downtown Mombasa? Heck – a quick google of “Kenya visa stamps” would turn up a wealth of material for any half-way decent forger to put together a fake visa. But a photo actually takes some skill.

  25. avatar
    DCH July 22, 2011 at 8:40 am #

    The PM of Kenya is an office that went out of existence in 1964 only to be re-established in April of 2008! Perfect timing for birther’s delusional reasoning.

    How long will be before the meme arises that the PM position was brought back for the purpose of hiding the truth of BHO birthplace?

    Birthers will link Kenyan PM Raila Odinga to Obama’s dad and say he was brought into the conspiracy years ago as a long term “sleeper OBOT” (c) (I just copyrighted that birthers!).

    I might start my on Paypal donation scam based on this.

  26. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 22, 2011 at 9:14 am #

    Nathanael,

    Of course I have photos of myself in Kenya. I have hundreds. When did I ever say that I didnt?

    I have African passport stamps in passport too. When did I say that I didnt?

    And why does everyone here on the Doc’s blog know so much about forgers and forgeries? You guys/gals are retired money makers or what?

    By the way, for the record, I’ve crossed land borders plenty of times without ever showing any ID at all. Most of you people here just Google scholars and the one of you that aren’t you then are just then the sort of doltish international travelers that are overcharged for EVERYTHING while abroad in undeveloped world and you hang around in tourist areas and when you do venture out somewhere your so dang scared that you emit an odor of fear that even humans can smell.

    So I don’t want to hear about your business travels to Africa in first class.

    By the way, Im still waiting for Paul Pieniezny to supply us all with some Google search data on Haiti.

  27. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 22, 2011 at 9:23 am #

    I have earned some money, but I have never made any.

    Lucas D. Smith: You guys/gals are retired money makers or what?

  28. avatar
    Sef July 22, 2011 at 10:40 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: Of course I have photos of myself in Kenya. I have hundreds. When did I ever say that I didnt?

    Unless there was someone else with you taking the pictures you don’t have “hundreds” of pictures of yourself in Kenya.

  29. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 22, 2011 at 11:44 am #

    I will admit that I have been to Canada twice (on business trips) and I do not have a photo of myself there. However, I have photos for my tourist trips out of the country.

    Sef: Unless there was someone else with you taking the pictures you don’t have “hundreds” of pictures of yourself in Kenya.

  30. avatar
    Sef July 22, 2011 at 12:22 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I will admit that I have been to Canada twice (on business trips) and I do not have a photo of myself there. However, I have photos for my tourist trips out of the country.

    The point is that, in all probability, someone else would be taking the picture & that would not be “hundreds” of times. Even if he were using a self-timer that would be a very limited number of times.

  31. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 22, 2011 at 1:02 pm #

    Sef,

    When did I ever say that I was taking the photos by myself?

    Where do you people get this crap? Do you just say the first thing that comes to your mind?

    What’s next: Lucas, how did you use the bathroom in the Congo? There are no public restrooms listed for the Congo on Google’s public potty-finder!

  32. avatar
    Thrifty July 22, 2011 at 1:20 pm #

    Nathanael: OK, Lucas, forget the passport and the Kenyan visa stamp, how about a PHOTO? If *I* were going to Kenya, you can bet your grandpappy I’d take a camera, just for tourist moments, if nothing else. And if I’m heading back to the states to make some controversial claims, what better evidence than a picture of me standing next to the prime minister in downtown Mombasa? Heck – a quick google of “Kenya visa stamps” would turn up a wealth of material for any half-way decent forger to put together a fake visa. But a photo actually takes some skill.

    Wouldn’t it even be easier to take pictures of a random place and call them pictures of Kenya, than it would be to forge Kenyan stamps?

  33. avatar
    JoZeppy July 22, 2011 at 1:34 pm #

    Thrifty: Wouldn’t it even be easier to take pictures of a random place and call them pictures of Kenya, than it would be to forge Kenyan stamps?

    You mean like a Dominican slum, perhaps?

  34. avatar
    Lucas_d_Smith@live.com July 22, 2011 at 1:35 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I have earned some money, but I have never made any.

    But did you ever think about making money though? Ever committed a thought crime?

  35. avatar
    Sef July 22, 2011 at 1:39 pm #

    Thrifty: Wouldn’t it even be easier to take pictures of a random place and call them pictures of Kenya, than it would be to forge Kenyan stamps?

    You mean like this http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d8d9e980cdd4.jpg

  36. avatar
    Thrifty July 22, 2011 at 1:41 pm #

    JoZeppy: You mean like a Dominican slum, perhaps?

    I was just thinking of a project I had in 5th grade where I had to do a report on one of the states other than the one where I lived, Delaware. I chose Idaho, because I liked potatoes. I was supposed to contact some tourist board or something in the state to get some pictures of the area for the poster. Instead I just took some pictures at some parks near my house.

  37. avatar
    Lucas_d_Smith@live.com July 22, 2011 at 1:58 pm #

    Sef: Unless there was someone else with you taking the pictures you don’t have “hundreds” of pictures of yourself in Kenya.

    How said anything about me being the one to take the pictures of myself?

    Geez, you should maybe contact the Post & Email. You can be their next ‘interviewee’ and you call me a fraud and a forgery and give one lonesome reason in support of: Lucas could not have taken hundreds of pictures of himself in Kenya because he would need someone else to take the pictures for him!

    Then The Post & Email will (hopefully) pointed out to you, ‘Sir, if you done any research into Lucas Smith’s story you see that Lucas traveled with a friend from the Congo.

    Then you’ll say, ‘Well, hey! Do really expect me to read anything before I start making unsupported claims!’.

    The Post & Email will (hopefully) then say, ‘Yes’.

    Then you’ll say, ‘Well, look, Mrs Rondeau, Lucas couldn’t have traveled through the Congo because I can’t find a single public restroom listed on Google for the lawless forest in the Congo’.

    The Post & Email will then (maybe) say: ‘Sir, I’ve heard tell that sometimes our fearless leader Lucas Smith just ‘whips it out’ and ‘drains it’ right there in the lawless forests in the Congo right there in front of the fauna and flora.’

    You then say, ‘Look lady, I don’t care if Lucas has pictures of himself in Kenya anyway. The birth certificate is still fake! Lucas Smith is a ‘baddy man’! Lucas Smith is a man that makes fakies! Lucas Smith is no even really him real name! Lucas Smith doesn’t even have two-pennies to rub between his thumb and pointer fingers! Lucas Smith said that he once had sex with a 14 year old girl in a different country!’

    The Post & Email will then (maybe) say: ‘Why do you believe Lucas Smith about the 14 year old girl when all you have to back that claim is Lucas Smith’s own word? Why do you believe the story about the 14 year old girl but you don’t believe anything else that he say?’

    You then say, ‘You’re a ‘baddy person’ too! The Post & Email is really just a place for racists to use ‘code words’ such as ‘I love my country’ which really means: ‘I hate fried chicken and Tyler Perry plays’!!!!

    The Post & Email will then (no doubt) say: ‘Sir, I just finished watching Tyler Perry’s ‘Why did I Get Married Too’. Goddang that movie was spectacular, we here at The Post & Email loved the part where Tyler Perry (his character) was in the bed with his wife (character) and she called him by her boyfriends name!’ KahBoom! That just got me and the hubby all fired up and now where watching 106 & Park so that we can get a shot of Young Gotti and Keyshior Dior in his new video!’

    Then you say, ‘How is Tyler Perry? and how is the Young Gotti, is Gotti back now from the grave? And just who is the Keyshior Dior that you speak of?’

    Then the Post & Email will say, ‘You are a loser’.

  38. avatar
    JoZeppy July 22, 2011 at 1:59 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Nathanael,Of course I have photos of myself in Kenya. I have hundreds. When did I ever say that I didnt?I have African passport stamps in passport too. When did I say that I didnt?And why does everyone here on the Doc’s blog know so much about forgers and forgeries? You guys/gals are retired money makers or what?By the way, for the record, I’ve crossed land borders plenty of times without ever showing any ID at all. Most of you people here just Google scholars and the one of you that aren’t you then are just then the sort of doltish international travelers that are overcharged for EVERYTHING while abroad in undeveloped world and you hang around in tourist areas and when you do venture out somewhere your so dang scared that you emit an odor of fear that even humans can smell.So I don’t want to hear about your business travels to Africa in first class.By the way, Im still waiting for Paul Pieniezny to supply us all with some Google search data on Haiti.

    our friend Mr. Lucas Smith….always quick with the excuses. But that is all that he, Lucas D Smith has. The fundamental problem is that Lucas D Smith is a fundamentally unreliable source, with no credibility. A convicted forger, trying to offer an unauthenticated document, that he tried to sell on ebay. Everything else just piles ontop of that. A convicted forger, trying to offer an unauthenticated document, that has for 2 years failed to provide even the scantist of evidence that he was in Kenya at the time in question or ever, with another layer of trying to pass of a video of a Dominican slum as Kenya, topped with a document that doesn’t look like any other Kenyan birth certificate seen to date, topped with some extremely odd measurements of the child in question, with a little bit of spelling errors and questioanble date format, and the cherry on top is the authenticated documents released and attested to by the State of Hawaii that directly contradicts your “certificate.” We’re not even going to touch the fact that Kenyan nativity story flat out makes no bloody sense.

    But even without all those extra “toppings” of disbelief, the core remains. A convicted forger trying to offer as potential evidence an unauthenticated document that he tried to sell on ebay.

    No amount of excuses or B.S. explanations are going to make this go away.

  39. avatar
    Lucas_d_Smith@live.com July 22, 2011 at 2:05 pm #

    JoZeppy: our friend Mr. Lucas Smith….always quick with the excuses.But that is all that he, Lucas D Smith has.The fundamental problem is that Lucas D Smith is a fundamentally unreliable source, with no credibility.A convicted forger, trying to offer an unauthenticated document, that he tried to sell on ebay.Everything else just piles ontop of that.A convicted forger, trying to offer an unauthenticated document, that has for 2 years failed to provide even the scantist of evidence that he was in Kenya at the time in question or ever, with another layer of trying to pass of a video of a Dominican slum as Kenya, topped with a document that doesn’t look like any other Kenyan birth certificate seen to date, topped with some extremely odd measurements of the child in question, with a little bit of spelling errors and questioanble date format, and the cherry on top is the authenticated documents released and attested to by the State of Hawaii that directly contradicts your “certificate.”We’re not even going to touch the fact that Kenyan nativity story flat out makes no bloody sense.

    But even without all those extra “toppings” of disbelief, the core remains.A convicted forger trying to offer as potential evidence an unauthenticated document that he tried to sell on ebay.

    No amount of excuses or B.S. explanations are going to make this go away.

    What does ‘JoZeppy’ stand for? Do you have a similar eBay handle? Ever bought any black market Airborne from me?

  40. avatar
    PaulG July 22, 2011 at 4:24 pm #

    Lucas_d_Smith@live.com: How said anything about me being the one to take the pictures of myself?

    Geez, you should maybe contact the Post & Email.You can be their next interviewee’ and you call me a fraud and a forgery and give one lonesome reason in support of:Lucas could not have taken hundreds of pictures of himself in Kenya because he would need someone else to take the pictures for him!

    [snip, snip , snip]

    Then the Post & Email will say, ‘You are a loser’.

    Is this really LDS? Or a parody? Usually he’s more coherent .

  41. avatar
    G July 22, 2011 at 4:26 pm #

    I’m sure we’ve all committed “thought crimes” in our head. Thankfully, maturity and restraint allows most of us to refrain from acting on our natural impulses. That is one of the wonderful things about being human. We have the ability to think before acting and to get our emotions under control. …Not always easy to do, but almost always important to remember.

    Lucas_d_Smith@live.com: But did you ever think about making money though? Ever committed a thought crime?

  42. avatar
    JoZeppy July 22, 2011 at 4:34 pm #

    Lucas_d_Smith@live.com: What does ‘JoZeppy’ stand for? Do you have a similar eBay handle? Ever bought any black market Airborne from me?

    Am I to assume this irrelevant response is a precursor to another childish rant involving homosexual taunts? Perhaps a couple of “your mama” taunts as well?

    But I’ll answer you anyway, because I’m a nice guy.

    JoZeppy is a nickname I’ve had since college

    No, I don’t have a similar eBay handle

    And no, I have never purchased blackmarket anything, from you or anyone else (particularly not a dietary supplement ). But thank you for adding yet another admission. So now we know you are a convicted felon, admitted child molester, and engage in the sale and trafficking of illegal goods.

    With that established pattern of criminal behavior, why should anyone waste a second of time on your POSFAKBC or anything else you say?

  43. avatar
    JoZeppy July 22, 2011 at 4:44 pm #

    Lucas_d_Smith@live.com: The Post & Email will then (maybe) say: ‘Why do you believe Lucas Smith about the 14 year old girl when all you have to back that claim is Lucas Smith’s own word? Why do you believe the story about the 14 year old girl but you don’t believe anything else that he say?’

    Let’s consider the options.

    Option A: What Lucas Smith says is true. Therefore he is a child molester, and a reprehensible individual, who has shown poor character and should not be trusted

    Option B: Lucas Smith is lying. Therefore he is a liar, and should not be trusted.

  44. avatar
    JoZeppy July 22, 2011 at 4:47 pm #

    PaulG: Is this really LDS? Or a parody? Usually he’s more coherent .

    I can’t always tell the different between the real LDS and parody…but recall Mr. Smith has a tendancy of taking a very quick downward spiral into jr high level potty mouth, so lack of coherence isn’t completely out of character.

  45. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 22, 2011 at 4:48 pm #

    JoZeppy,

    Why do you only believe the ‘bad’ or ‘incriminating’ things that I say about myself? All you have is my word? So why do you choice to believe me?

    Second, the Airborne Effervescent question was not irrelevant and it was not a joke. There really is an eBayer with a similar screen name of yours here on Doc’s blog.

    I thought maybe it was you that was buying the good stuff. Btw, Airborne is tasty and quite effective, at least for me.

    I recommend the value pack which includes three tubes.

    Good day.

    PS. Sorry about the name/email slot mix-ups in my prior comments today.

  46. avatar
    Arthur July 22, 2011 at 5:05 pm #

    Nathanael: OK, Lucas, forget the passport and the Kenyan visa stamp, how about a PHOTO?

    Who needs a photo when you’ve got video! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqKOil0YXiE

  47. avatar
    JoZeppy July 22, 2011 at 5:16 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Why do you only believe the bad’ or incriminating’ things that I say about myself? All you have is my word? So why do you choice to believe me?

    And like I said in a prior posting, the options either are, 1) your statement is true, and you have no regard for the law, therefore should not be trusted, or 2) you are a liar, and should not be trusted. In the end, it leads us to the same point, that we cannot take any of your statements, and certainly not your POSFAKBC for their face value, and should be regarded as highly suspect. Anyway you take it, you statements undermine your credibility. Sorry, that’s the breaks. Nothing personal.

    Lucas D. Smith: Second, the Airborne Effervescent question was not irrelevant and it was not a joke. There really is an eBayer with a similar screen name of yours here on Doc’s blog.

    Interesting, but not surprising. Anytime I have attempted to use JoZeppy for a free email account, it is always used (as well as various froms of it, so I’m guessing it’s not an uncommon nickname or pseduonym).

    Lucas D. Smith: I thought maybe it was you that was buying the good stuff. Btw, Airborne is tasty and quite effective, at least for me.

    Don’t care for the stuff, and considering their class action settlment, defer on commenting on their “effectiveness.” It’s just not for me.

    good day to you as well.

  48. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny July 22, 2011 at 5:21 pm #

    Judge Mental: Hell, the UK is still only partially metric today in 2011 despite first announcing the intentions to do so in 1965.

    Actually, with some magic, you can make that 1963. The first step in going metric was the decimalization of British money. So here you have it:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW6VV8nIwMs
    (scroll to 8.02)

  49. avatar
    Obsolete July 22, 2011 at 7:41 pm #

    Can a placebo work if you know it is a placebo?
    Airbourne seems to work for me, although I have always guessed it was just the placebo effect.
    Well with the money spent even if I am only tricking myself.
    (Sorry for the OT)

  50. avatar
    Sef July 22, 2011 at 8:11 pm #

    JoZeppy: Let’s consider the options.

    Option A:What Lucas Smith says is true.Therefore he is a child molester, and a reprehensible individual, who has shown poor character and should not be trusted

    Option B:Lucas Smith is lying.Therefore he is a liar, and should not be trusted.

    But he spent all that time in prison, so he must be rehabilitated, No? Oh, well, at least I’m not paying taxes`in his state.

  51. avatar
    Nathanael July 22, 2011 at 10:27 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith:
    Of course I have photos of myself in Kenya.I have hundreds.

    Then perhaps it wouldn’t be too much trouble to, you know, say, throw a couple up on your website. I know you’re working hard right now on getting those Kenyan visa stamps posted, so we wouldn’t mind waiting a bit. Say, this time next week?

  52. avatar
    Nathanael July 22, 2011 at 11:13 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith:
    So I don’t want to hear about your business travels to Africa in first class.

    So would you care to hear about my two and a half years traveling around central Africa in dugouts and on rusty bikes? Though I can’t speak to Kenyan borders, I will confirm that many of the borders I crossed were rather porous, IF you were traveling well off-road. Anything resembling a beaten track looked like the Champs Elise on Bastille Day.

    Oh, and you are in error on your website: “It should also be noted that words in Swahili, a language that did not have a written form”

    Swahili has had an orthography for several centuries. It previously used an Arabic script. I don’t know exactly when it made the switch to Romanization, but it was at least a century and a half ago.

    “Lots of cultures … are/were not concerned with official or standard spellings, dates or times.”

    Fine. Prove that this was true of Kenya in 1961. And your attempt to characterize standardized spelling as “anal retentive” is, shall we say, quixotic.

    Look, Lucas D. Smith. You’re obviously a reasonably bright fellow. Bright enough to realize that folks tend to get riled up when you treat them like idiots. Surely you must realize that, as a convicted forger, you can’t expect that anyone is just going to take you at your word. For any claim you make, the burden of proof rests more heavily on your shoulders than most others’.

    If you’re going to go to Kenya to get an alleged Obama BC, you need to make damn sure YOU’RE anal-retentive about crossing every corroborative T and dotting every evidentiary I, because you have the kind of backstory that pretty much guarantees nobody’s going to believe you just on say-so. You may not like that, but that’s the bed you sleep in.

    So far you haven’t provided even the most basic corroborative evidence that you were ever in Kenya. You claim to have the visa stamps, you claim to have hundreds of photos, but you steadfastly refuse to show them to anyone. If you have the stamps, it’d be a matter of fifteen minutes’ work to scan and post them. Ditto for, say, five or six photos of you walking the streets of Mombasa, or talking to hospital officials, or getting your POSFKBC notarized.

    You say you have the photos, you say you have the stamps. Why don’t you show them?

  53. avatar
    G July 22, 2011 at 11:38 pm #

    Well stated. I agree with your points and I commend you for putting it straightforward without being mocking or insulting.

    Lucas has shown that he can be good at replying to straightforward statements, even when he knows we respectfully don’t buy into his story and take things with a grain of salt due to his past. However, endless and merciless taunts quickly bring out the worst in him and then the whole thread starts to swirl down the gutter…

    Nathanael: Look, Lucas D. Smith. You’re obviously a reasonably bright fellow. Bright enough to realize that folks tend to get riled up when you treat them like idiots. Surely you must realize that, as a convicted forger, you can’t expect that anyone is just going to take you at your word. For any claim you make, the burden of proof rests more heavily on your shoulders than most others’.
    If you’re going to go to Kenya to get an alleged Obama BC, you need to make damn sure YOU’RE anal-retentive about crossing every corroborative T and dotting every evidentiary I, because you have the kind of backstory that pretty much guarantees nobody’s going to believe you just on say-so. You may not like that, but that’s the bed you sleep in.
    So far you haven’t provided even the most basic corroborative evidence that you were ever in Kenya. You claim to have the visa stamps, you claim to have hundreds of photos, but you steadfastly refuse to show them to anyone. If you have the stamps, it’d be a matter of fifteen minutes’ work to scan and post them. Ditto for, say, five or six photos of you walking the streets of Mombasa, or talking to hospital officials, or getting your POSFKBC notarized.
    You say you have the photos, you say you have the stamps. Why don’t you show them?

  54. avatar
    Keith July 23, 2011 at 4:28 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: What’s next: Lucas, how did you use the bathroom in the Congo? There are no public restrooms listed for the Congo on Google’s public potty-finder!

    Flush, long drop, or squat?

  55. avatar
    Nathanael July 23, 2011 at 7:31 am #

    Thrifty: Wouldn’t it even be easier to take pictures of a random place and call them pictures of Kenya, than it would be to forge Kenyan stamps?

    Well, it’d have to be something unmistakeable — say, LDS standing in front of the hospital holding a copy of the day’s newspaper in his hand.

  56. avatar
    Arthur July 23, 2011 at 8:43 am #

    While I agree with Nathaniel’s point about Lucas’ need for unimpeachable evidence, I was struck by the thought that I would probably reject, almost out of hand, scanned photographs and other evidence that Lucas presented. And then I realized, “My God, I’m reacting just like a birther.” That is, I’m predisposed to reject material as false before ever looking at it, and having seen it, I would be quick to look for tell-tales that would indicate it was inauthentic. I’m not suggesting that Lucas’ material should be accepted as true, but I am acknowledging that I understand, at a level much deeper than ever before, the birther mindset. I now understand the emotional appeal of the birthers’ mocking demands to “see the long-form birth certificate” (something they didn’t believe existed) and I understand the visceral satisfaction they must feel when they announce they’ve found signs of fraud.

    There is addictive pleasure in tearing down an adversary. I can see why one might accept lies for truth in order to feed and maintain that pleasure.

  57. avatar
    John Reilly July 23, 2011 at 10:50 am #

    I can see no reason why I am required to agree to analyze documentary evidence (which has yet to appear) from a convicted forger. The lawyers on this site will tell you that in criminal law, an instruction is given to the jury about the testimony of felons, that the conviction by itself is enough to base a determination that you believe nothing the witness has said. I do not agree to consider evidence Mr. Smith has yet to offer, and I’m pre-disposed, based on his felony conviction for forgery, to disbelieve anything he shows up with.

  58. avatar
    Daniel July 23, 2011 at 12:52 pm #

    If he comes up with photos or documents, and we can get separate, independent verification from the government of Hawa…. er sorry, from the government of Kenya, then that would be sufficient for me.

  59. avatar
    Majority Will July 23, 2011 at 12:56 pm #

    John Reilly:
    I can see no reason why I am required to agree to analyze documentary evidence (which has yet to appear) from a convicted forger.The lawyers on this site will tell you that in criminal law, an instruction is given to the jury about the testimony of felons, that the conviction by itself is enough to base a determination that you believe nothing the witness has said.I do not agree to consider evidence Mr. Smith has yet to offer, and I’m pre-disposed, based on his felony conviction for forgery, to disbelieve anything he shows up with.

    Previously convicted and currently facing more charges.

  60. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 23, 2011 at 2:43 pm #

    It is important to understand those who disagree with you, but there is a fundamental difference. It is reasonable to require a higher level of proof from Lucas Smith than from Barack Obama for at least two reasons: Mr. Smith’s personal history and the implausibility of what he claims.

    I don’t think I get any great pleasure finding an inconsistency in the POSFKBC, certainly not any pleasure in “sticking it to Lucas Smith.” The only satisfaction from such an activity is like that of solving a puzzle.

    Arthur: And then I realized, “My God, I’m reacting just like a birther.” That is, I’m predisposed to reject material as false before ever looking at it, and having seen it, I would be quick to look for tell-tales that would indicate it was inauthentic. I’m not suggesting that Lucas’ material should be accepted as true, but I am acknowledging that I understand, at a level much deeper than ever before, the birther mindset. I now understand the emotional appeal of the birthers’ mocking demands to “see the long-form birth certificate” (something they didn’t believe existed) and I understand the visceral satisfaction they must feel when they announce they’ve found signs of fraud.

  61. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 23, 2011 at 4:42 pm #

    Nathanael: Oh, and you are in error on your website: “It should also be noted that words in Swahili, a language that did not have a written form”
    Swahili has had an orthography for several centuries. It previously used an Arabic script. I don’t know exactly when it made the switch to Romanization, but it was at least a century and a half ago.

    Nathanael,

    I’M NOT in ‘error’ on my website regarding my statement on the Swahili language. Swahili is a language that did not have a written form.

    Furthermore, please don’t butcher my work. You’ve cited only half of the sentence. The sentence that you deceptively cut in half (although I’d still be correct with only that first half)reads, in full:

    “It should also be noted that words in Swahili, a language that did not have a written form, are spelled out phonetically by Swahili speakers in the alphabets of other languages.

    spelled out phonetically by Swahili speakers in the alphabets of other languages.

    Got that? That includes the Arabic alphabet and the Latin Alpahbet.

    Nathanael, I studied about all of this university. Pros and cons of written languages and non-written langauges. Also the pros and cons of langauges that are spelled out phonetically and those langauges that were/are written out in pictograms.

    Moreover, Nathanael, I’ve ascertained that about all you know about written forms of Shahili, and their histories, are what you very recently read on Wikipedia. That’s not meant as a slam, but rather its meant to reflect the thruth of the matter.

    1. I can tell you that misinterpreted some of the wording that the Wiki entry uses.

    2. From the wording that you used here on Doc’s blog I can tell that you got if from Wikipedia because if you learned about Swahili in a University, or even private book study, you wouldn’t use the crap, yes, crap, that Wikipedia has on their website entry right now for Swahili.

    Nate (can I call you that?) you are just another Google scholar.

    I don’t believe that you’ve ever been anywhere, yes, anywhere, in Africa.

  62. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 23, 2011 at 4:46 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: It is important to understand those who disagree with you, but there is a fundamental difference. It is reasonable to require a higher level of proof from Lucas Smith than from Barack Obama for at least two reasons: Mr. Smith’s personal history and the implausibility of what he claims.I don’t think I get any great pleasure finding an inconsistency in the POSFKBC, certainly not any pleasure in “sticking it to Lucas Smith.” The only satisfaction from such an activity is like that of solving a puzzle.

    Doc, very commendable statement.

    Also thanks for clearing up ‘crappie’ for the internet-fisherman.

  63. avatar
    Nathanael July 23, 2011 at 5:47 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith:
    spelled out phonetically by Swahili speakers in the alphabets of other languages.

    Would it be fair to characterize English as being “spelled out phonetically in the alphabets of other languages”? After all it borrowed its orthography from Latin. Did you know that dozens of languages around the world today use the Roman alphabet? Did you know that whether an orthography is indigenous or borrowed has just about zero relevance as to whether any particular language has standardized its spelling?

    And did you know that none of this has the slightest relevance to what is supposed to be your main point: that somehow “spelling things out phonetically in the alphabets of other languages” is supposed to prove that “Halton” is not simply a stupid error on your POSFKBC?

    Lucas D. Smith: Nathanael, I studied about all of this university.

    Lucas, I have a masters degree in linguistics. Pardon me if I’m not impressed with your single undergrad course.

    Lucas D. Smith: Moreover, Nathanael, I’ve ascertained that …

    Morever, Lucas, I’ve ascertained that you waltzed right past the eighty percent of my post that said put up or shut up. Perhaps you were hoping your faux scholarly outrage over Swahili orthographies would make us forget about that.

    Put up the visa stamps. Put up the photos. Or it never happened.

    Lucas D. Smith: Nate (can I call you that?)

    No. It’s Nathanael, thanks. And note I’ve standardized the spelling on -ael, despite the fact that I’m using a borrowed orthography.

  64. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 23, 2011 at 5:58 pm #

    Nathanael: Would it be fair to characterize English as being “spelled out phonetically in the alphabets of other languages”? After all it borrowed its orthography from Latin. Did you know that dozens of languages around the world today use the Roman alphabet? Did you know that whether an orthography is indigenous or borrowed has just about zero relevance as to whether any particular language has standardized its spelling?And did you know that none of this has the slightest relevance to what is supposed to be your main point: that somehow “spelling things out phonetically in the alphabets of other languages” is supposed to prove that “Halton” is not simply a stupid error on your POSFKBC?Lucas, I have a masters degree in linguistics. Pardon me if I’m not impressed with your single undergrad course.Morever, Lucas, I’ve ascertained that you waltzed right past the eighty percent of my post that said put up or shut up. Perhaps you were hoping your faux scholarly outrage over Swahili orthographies would make us forget about that.Put up the visa stamps. Put up the photos. Or it never happened.No. It’s Nathanael, thanks. And note I’ve standardized the spelling on -ael, despite the fact that I’m using a borrowed orthography.

    Give it up Wikipededia scholar.

    You people will say anything. Now you have masters degree in linguistics? I don’t believe it. Near impossible. Especially with your comapison of English and Swhali being spelled out.

    Listen dolt, English and Latin are both Indo-European langaues. Swahili didn’t derive from Latin.

    Btw, liar, just how old is the oldest known record of Swahili being spelled out in any language? Not very old is it?

    Just man up for once in your life.

  65. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 23, 2011 at 6:27 pm #

    Nathanael: Would it be fair to characterize English as being “spelled out phonetically in the alphabets of other languages”? After all it borrowed its orthography from Latin. .

    Furthermore, Wiki scholar, Nate:

    Did English have a written form before Latin alphabet? (Yes).

    Did Swahili have a written form before Arabic alphabet? (I don’t believe so).

    If I am wrong then please cite something solid.

    Thanks.

  66. avatar
    Scientist July 23, 2011 at 7:45 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Did English have a written form before Latin alphabet? (Yes).

    I disagree. The fearliest written works in Old English date from the 8th century AD or so and were written in Latin script. Any of the Celtic and Druidic languages from pre-Roman times were not English, by any stretch of the imagiination.

  67. avatar
    AnotherBird July 23, 2011 at 8:18 pm #

    Nathanael: Would it be fair to characterize English as being “spelled out phonetically in the alphabets of other languages”? After all it borrowed its orthography from Latin. Did you know that dozens of languages around the world today use the Roman alphabet? Did you know that whether an orthography is indigenous or borrowed has just about zero relevance as to whether any particular language has standardized its spelling?

    Having studied a foreign, the hardest thing to do is break from the use of the English alphabet. Even when trying to categorize the pronunciation, it just isn’t like English. That foreign language uses the English alphabet based on it pronunciation and language structure. Of course it has its own native alphabet. Like other languages it was derived from another language but changed over time to it current form.

  68. avatar
    AnotherBird July 23, 2011 at 8:33 pm #

    Scientist: I disagree.The fearliest written works in Old English date from the 8th century AD or so and were written in Latin script.Any of the Celtic and Druidic languages from pre-Roman times were not English, by any stretch of the imagiination.

    Didn’t English evolve after the fall of the Roman Empire? I don’t understand his dislike for Wikipedia. He seems to press the belief that people who use Wikipedia don’t do their own research, or check the references. The irony is that even the president put up his passport to help solve an inquiry, but he seems to steadfastly refuse.

  69. avatar
    Scientist July 23, 2011 at 8:54 pm #

    AnotherBird: Didn’t English evolve after the fall of the Roman Empire? I

    it did. The Celtic languages spoken in England before the Romans came are totally unrelated to English, which is derived from Germanic languages brought by the Angles and Saxons and from French (which derived from Latin), brought by the Normans. If Lucas has a document written in English in a script other than Latin he should post it on Ebay together wiith all the other crap he posts there.

    AnotherBird: I don’t understand his dislike for Wikipedia. He seems to press the belief that people who use Wikipedia don’t do their own research, or check the references.

    The error rate on Wikipedia is pretty low, especially on scholarly, non-controversial subjects. It’s one thing for Lucas to dispute something (like African border controls) based on claimed (though highly dubious) personal experience. In the case of early English, even Lucas can’t claim personal knowledge so, if he wishes to claim that English was written in non-Latin script, he needs to do much better than simply assert it.

  70. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 23, 2011 at 9:30 pm #

    Scientist: In the case of early English, even Lucas can’t claim personal knowledge so, if he wishes to claim that English was written in non-Latin script, he needs to do much better than simply assert it.

    English was originally written in a runic alphabet like the other Germanic langauges.

    And if you want me, or anyone else, to believe that the origins of Runic alpahbet is not a “non-controversial subject” then you can continue this university style debate by yourself.

  71. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 23, 2011 at 9:44 pm #

    Scientist: is not a “non-controversial subject”

    Sorry about my typo. That should read …”is a “non-controversial subject…”

  72. avatar
    Scientist July 23, 2011 at 9:56 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: English was originally written in a runic alphabet like the other Germanic langauges.

    Link?? How do you define “English”? In the world of scholarship (as opposed to the vending of “documents” on Ebay) one has to support one’s statements.

    Also, would you mind explaining how any of this esoterica bears on the fact of the President’s birth? Why don’t you show me some independent proof of your position beyond a single document.

    Where is the birth announcement in the Mombasa Daily Blah from 1961?
    Where is a photo of Stanley Ann Dunham in Kenya?
    Where is testimony from someone who saw her there (in clear and uncertain terms and preferably under oath)?
    Where is the letter from the government of Kenya validating your certificate?
    What passport did Ms Dunham use to get her baby back into the US?

  73. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 23, 2011 at 10:25 pm #

    Scientist,

    You want a ‘link’? A link? Link?

    I’m done here with you Internet scholars.

    Good evening.

  74. avatar
    Scientist July 23, 2011 at 10:36 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: You want a link’? A link? Link?

    We should just take everything you say as true, right? No supporting evidence needed, right?? I mean you would never lie or forge and you are all knowing, right???

  75. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 23, 2011 at 11:43 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith:
    Scientist,

    You want a link’?A link?Link?

    I’m done here with you Internet scholars.

    Good evening.

    You’re a convicted felon who continues to break the law and get caught. You’ve provided no evidence thus far why would you provide anything to make you sound credible anytime soon?

  76. avatar
    dunstvangeet July 24, 2011 at 12:56 am #

    Lucas Smith…

    Most people standardize their name, even if there isn’t a standard way to spell it. For instance, if you have someone named Stephen, they aren’t going to spell it Stephen one week, and then Steven the next time.

    What you want us to believe is that someone from a country where English is an official language and the language of business and the government, hadn’t bothered to standardize his name enough that he spells it two different ways. This isn’t about how other people spell his name. This is about how he spells it. We’ve shown you that Heltan spells it Heltan multiple times. You keep on going back to this “Well, there’s no standard spelling, so he may spell it Heltan on everything, but he actually signs it Helton.” It will take us a lot of evidence to actually believe this, and by evidence, we mean papers that he actually wrote, places where he spelled his own name as “Helton”, like what you’re asserting us. So far, you’ve just listed a bunch of places that may have misspelled his name (happens all the time on that. My Mother is on a few mailing lists with the middle name “Fly”. That doesn’t mean that her name is actually spelled “Fly”. Just means someone made a mistake. My name gets mis-spelled all the time myself. Doesn’t mean that I spell it two different ways.)

    There are other severe problems with your birth certificate. This is just one of the most blatent.

  77. avatar
    Expelliarmus July 24, 2011 at 2:01 am #

    This is all just a red herring. Heltan Maganga is not an employee of the Department of Civil Registration in Kenya; therefore his signature on a document purporting to be a birth certificate is meaningless.

    Similarly, in Kenya, just as in the US, birth certificates are maintained and issued by civil authorities, not hospitals. No matter who signs the damn thing, a certificate purportedly issued or maintained by a hospital is worthless. It’s the problem of the counterfeit $3 bill I keep alluding to — it doesn’t matter who drew up Smith’s worthless certificate or how competent or inept the forgery…. it just is NOT a birth certificate. It doesn’t come from the agency in charge of such things and it doesn’t look like the documents that agency issues.

  78. avatar
    Majority Will July 24, 2011 at 6:38 am #

    Expelliarmus: This is all just a red herring.

    Yes, it is.

    It would have been a slightly more interesting narrative if he had actually been conned in Kenya rather than just trying to peddle a clumsy, amateurish, self made forgery with a ridiculous fantasy for a back story.

    The only interesting questions now are how many years in prison is he facing for his current alleged crimes and will Bruce, his biggest fan, best buddy forever and financial supporter, be providing his legal counsel?

  79. avatar
    Northland10 July 24, 2011 at 7:25 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: You want a link’? A link? Link?

    I’m done here with you Internet scholars.

    How about a bibliography? We also know how to check sources in books and journals. Too make claims without providing sources and references is academically dishonest.

  80. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 24, 2011 at 8:25 am #

    The way that a professional document examiner would approach authenticating the POSFKBC, besides getting the paper copy and not the image, would be to compare it to examples which are not questioned. Unfortunately we have neither an unquestioned hospital certificate from 1961, nor an unquestioned certificate issued in 2009.

    Majority Will: It would have been a slightly more interesting narrative if he had actually been conned in Kenya rather than just trying to peddle a clumsy, amateurish, self made forgery with a ridiculous fantasy for a back story.

  81. avatar
    Majority Will July 24, 2011 at 10:24 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    The way that a professional document examiner would approach authenticating the POSFKBC, besides getting the paper copy and not the image, would be to compare it to examples which are not questioned. Unfortunately we have neither an unquestioned hospital certificate from 1961, nor an unquestioned certificate issued in 2009.

    So all we have then with regards to the origin of the POSFKBC, is a highly questionable yarn from someone who has been convicted of fraud and forgery in a court of law who repeatedly attempted and allegedly still attempts to profit from deceit. He is counting on people gullible enough to believe in haunted houses or desperate enough to buy human organs illegally and I believe he considers his crimes to be victimless because it has to be their fault for being so easily deceived. It’s a con artist’s justification and a perverted and false sense of conscience.

  82. avatar
    Sef July 24, 2011 at 1:54 pm #

    Majority Will: It would have been a slightly more interesting narrative if he had actually been conned in Kenya rather than just trying to peddle a clumsy, amateurish, self made forgery with a ridiculous fantasy for a back story.

    One of 2 things happened: Lucas actually went to Kenya and was conned similar to his story, or he, or one of his acquaintances, forged the POSFKBC. He`has provided no evidence to prove he went to Kenya, so the second seems more likely. In any case the POSFKBC describes an event which did not happen and prevents any other BCs from Kenya from being proffered. He fails to realize that he is toast.

  83. avatar
    Bovril July 24, 2011 at 2:39 pm #

    Remember folks, if even Birfoons denounce the POSFKBC as a sack o’ cack, it really has not a hope in hell of beiig real.

    Even Orly and Dr K(H)ate call it a sad and pathetic fake….’nuff said

  84. avatar
    Expelliarmus July 24, 2011 at 5:19 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Unfortunately we have neither an unquestioned hospital certificate from 1961, nor an unquestioned certificate issued in 2009.

    We know what a real Kenya birth certificate looks like because it is set by law and published. See forms 4 & 5 at http://www.kenyalaw.org/klr/fileadmin/pdfdownloads/Acts/BirthsandDeathsRegistrationAct_Cap.149_.pdf

    You are right about general forensics procedure, but there’s no need to do that step when it appears from the face of the document that it’s not an authorized governmental form.

  85. avatar
    Judge Mental July 24, 2011 at 6:17 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Unfortunately we have neither an unquestioned hospital certificate from 1961, nor an unquestioned certificate issued in 2009.

    I’m predicting, only half tongue in cheek, that at some stage in the future a birther wil accidentally or intentionally take these words in iolation out of context , jiggle them a little bit and use them as evidence that “even the obot Dr Conspiracy said that there is no Hawaian hospital certificate for Obama from 1961 nor an unquestioned certified copy Hawaian birth certificate for him issued in 2009”.

  86. avatar
    Judge Mental July 24, 2011 at 6:17 pm #

    …..in isolation….

  87. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 24, 2011 at 6:40 pm #

    It’s not an authorized governmental form, of course, but I don’t know that a Kenyan hospital doesn’t issue the same souvenir birth certificates that a US hospital does. A properly attested hospital form is evidence of birth, albeit not at the level of a certificate issued by the jurisdiction. The problem with the Smith certificate is knowing whether anything even remotely like it has ever been issued by the hospital. One would want, for example, unquestioned examples of the misspelled Maganga signature stamp to verify the certification.

    Getting a forged government-issued certificate is pretty easy; my Kenyan detective made me a very nice one.

    Expelliarmus: You are right about general forensics procedure, but there’s no need to do that step when it appears from the face of the document that it’s not an authorized governmental form.

  88. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 6:57 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    It’s not an authorized governmental form, of course, but I don’t know that a Kenyan hospital doesn’t issue the same souvenir birth certificates that a US hospital does. A properly attested hospital form is evidence of birth, albeit not at the level of a certificate issued by the jurisdiction. The problem with the Smith certificate is knowing whether anything even remotely like it has ever been issued by the hospital. One would want, for example, unquestioned examples of the misspelled Maganga signature stamp to verify the certification.

    Getting a forged government-issued certificate is pretty easy; my Kenyan detective made me a very nice one.

    Doc,

    Can you believe the nerve of this guy Expelliarmus? He links to PDF for a 2010 revised edition of a 1972 Kenyan law.

    Not to mention the fact that birth record from the Republic of Kenya (1964-present) can’t be used as ‘evidence’ against a birth record issued from the Kenya Protectorate (1920-1964).

    Geez, what a dolt.

    Btw, I have now published a new 07.23.2011 blog report!

    ‘Operation Fish Bucket.’

    http://www.wasobamaborninkenya.com/bl-og

    Please read and feel free to comment!

  89. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 7:00 pm #

    Expelliarmus: We know what a real Kenya birth certificate looks like because it is set by law and published.See forms 4 & 5at http://www.kenyalaw.org/klr/fileadmin/pdfdownloads/Acts/BirthsandDeathsRegistrationAct_Cap.149_.pdf

    You are right about general forensics procedure, but there’s no need to do that step when it appears from the face of the document that it’s not an authorized governmental form.

    Link to a PDF for a 2010 revised edition of a 1972 Kenyan law??? …..AMAZING.

    Not to mention the fact that a birth record from the Republic of Kenya (1964-present) can’t be used as evidence’ against a birth record issued from the Kenya Protectorate (1920-1964).

    Geez, what a dolt.

    Give it up Mr internet scholar.

  90. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 7:04 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    .

    I meant to say 07.24.2011 blog report at http://www.WasObamaBornInKenya.com/blog

    Thanks.

  91. avatar
    Expelliarmus July 24, 2011 at 7:08 pm #

    I doubt that US hospitals keep a copy of the souvenir certificate in the medical file — I think it’s just one of those things they give to families on the way out as a keepsake. I am also reasonably certain that no US hospital retains complete medical records for 40+ years, and if they do such records are certainly not readily accessible. (Not something you could stop by and pick up on while-you-wait basis). And finally — when you get medical records from a hospital, there is no “certification” or stamp — they simply send a copy of the records you requested. If it is a court proceeding, like a subpoena, then they might attach a cover sheet that is a form of declaration of an affidavit.

    Now obviously we cannot know what the practices of hospitals are in Kenya, but it rather strains credulity to believe that any hospital would have created and hung onto a souvenir certificate for 48 years; and that such certificate would be readily accessible for someone who showed up at the front desk wanting one.

    Of course, I do think it is quite possible that there are corrupt hospital employees in Kenya quite willing to steal money from stupid Americans who stop by asking for something they know doesn’t exist. And if Lucas Smith had come forth with any actual evidence that he had ever been in Kenya, we could possibly believe that he had been so duped.

  92. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 7:46 pm #

    Expelliarmus:
    I doubt that US hospitals keep a copy of the souvenir certificate in the medical file — I think it’s just one of those things they give to families on the way out as a keepsake.I am also reasonably certain that no US hospital retains complete medical records for 40+ years, and if they do such records are certainly not readily accessible. (Not something you could stop by and pick up on while-you-wait basis). And finally — when you get medical records from a hospital, there is no “certification” or stamp — they simply send a copy of the records you requested.If it is a court proceeding, like a subpoena, then they might attach a cover sheet that is a form of declaration of an affidavit.

    Now obviously we cannot know what the practices of hospitals are in Kenya, but it rather strains credulity to believe that any hospital would have created and hung onto a souvenir certificate for 48 years; and that such certificate would be readily accessible for someone who showed up at the front desk wanting one.

    Of course, I do think it is quite possible that there are corrupt hospital employees in Kenya quite willing to steal money from stupidAmericans who stop by asking for something they know doesn’t exist. And if Lucas Smith had come forth with any actual evidence that he had ever been in Kenya, we could possibly believe that he had been so duped.

    You are saying then that this is not a ‘certified’ hospital birth record that have uploaded to my Patriot1980 scribd.com account?

    Patricia Anne Gillespie / 1950 hospital birth certificate with one footprint / embossed seal

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/23274567/Patricia-Anne-Gillespie-1950-hospital-birth-certificate-with-one-footprint-embossed-seal?in_collection=2511118

  93. avatar
    Sef July 24, 2011 at 7:52 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: You are saying then that this is not a certified’ hospital birth record that have uploaded to my Patriot1980 scribd.com account?

    Patricia Anne Gillespie / 1950 hospital birth certificate with one footprint / embossed seal

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/23274567/Patricia-Anne-Gillespie-1950-hospital-birth-certificate-with-one-footprint-embossed-seal?in_collection=2511118

    Has she tried to get a passport with it in the last 5 years? The answer to that question will tell you of its value. Oh, and don’t try to get on a transoceanic cruise with it, either.

  94. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 7:56 pm #

    Sef: Has she tried to get a passport with it in the last 5 years? The answer to that question will tell you of its value. Oh, and don’t try to get on a transoceanic cruise with it, either.

    Thanks for your reply but gaaauwwd whats any of that got to do with what we were talking about? I didn’t say anything about using it to get a passport of board transoceanic cruise.

  95. avatar
    Sef July 24, 2011 at 8:01 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Thanks for your reply but gaaauwwd whats any of that got to do with what we were talking about?I didn’t say anything about using it to get a passport of board transoceanic cruise.

    Anybody can put a seal on anything, but that doesn’t mean it has any value. This is just a souvenir.

  96. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 8:08 pm #

    Sef: Anybody can put a seal on anything, but that doesn’t mean it has any value. This is just a souvenir.

    Perhaps, maybe, nowadays it doesn’t. However, it meant something back then. I have no doubt in my mind that even as near back in history as the 1980s/1990s that that 1980 ‘souvenir’ could have been used, at least in part, to secure a state ID card/license in many US states.

  97. avatar
    Sef July 24, 2011 at 8:14 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Perhaps, maybe, nowadays it doesn’t. However, it meant something back then. I have no doubt in my mind that even as near back in history as the 1980s/1990s that that 1980 souvenir’ could have been used, at least in part,to secure a state ID card/license in many US states.

    When you forged your POSFKBC why didn’t you forge a government BC instead of a hospital souvenir?

  98. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 8:23 pm #

    Sef: When you forged your POSFKBC why didn’t you forge a government BC instead of a hospital souvenir?

    Well, gaaauwwd, I suppose because I didn’t forge the birth certificate. I paid a female Kenyan hospital administrator, at CPGH, $5,000.00 US dollars to fetch me a certified copy of Barack Obama’s original hospital certificate of birth. She was a nice lady. If she were younger in age I might have gave her a kiss too!

  99. avatar
    Sef July 24, 2011 at 8:28 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Well, gaaauwwd, I suppose because I didn’t forge the birth certificate.I paid a female Kenyan hospital administrator, at CPGH, $5,000.00 US dollars to fetch me a certified copy of Barack Obama’s original hospital certificate of birth.She was a nice lady.If she were younger in age I might have gave her a kiss too!

    Sure you did. If so, then you are even a bigger fool than Orly. You was taken, boy!

  100. avatar
    Sef July 24, 2011 at 8:30 pm #

    Sef: Sure you did. If so, then you are even a bigger fool than Orly. You was taken, boy!

    P.S. One would think a convicted criminal like yourself would have more street smarts.

  101. avatar
    Northland10 July 24, 2011 at 8:39 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: to fetch me a certified copy of Barack Obama’s original hospital certificate of birth.

    So they keep all medical records, even ones from 48 years ago, on site and easily available? It must have been a very large building.

    The reaction I would get at my birth hospital certificate would be one or more of the following:

    1. Go to the County Clerk’s office.

    2. We do not keep records that far back.

    3. We may have basic birth medical information. it will take 20-30 days to complete the request as they are not on-site.

    I sometimes wonder, why do the birthers have her going to Coast Province, a government hospital, instead of the Mombasa Hospital, which, I think, catered more to Europeans? The fact that they had her flying out there would tend to show that money was not a problem

    Oh, and Lucas, you still need to provide proof/verification you were anywhere near Mombasa. Because you said so is insufficient. I say this, not due to your past but because “I said so” would be equally insufficient.

  102. avatar
    Scientist July 24, 2011 at 8:39 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: I paid a female Kenyan hospital administrator, at CPGH, $5,000.00 US dollars to fetch me a certified copy of Barack Obama’s original hospital certificate of birth

    Interestiingly, Barack Obama only had to pay $10 to get his from Hawaii. You were robbed, son.

  103. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 24, 2011 at 8:40 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Well, gaaauwwd, I suppose because I didn’t forge the birth certificate.I paid a female Kenyan hospital administrator, at CPGH, $5,000.00 US dollars to fetch me a certified copy of Barack Obama’s original hospital certificate of birth.She was a nice lady.If she were younger in age I might have gave her a kiss too!

    Sure Lucas you’re entirely believable being a convicted forger and all. It just so happens she must have magically put the wrong administrator who wasn’t even in that position when you supposedly went. Yes I’m sure if she was 16 you would have had your way with her.

  104. avatar
    Majority Will July 24, 2011 at 8:42 pm #

    Sef: P.S.One would think a convicted criminal like yourself would have more street smarts.

    Nah. It’s just an idiotic back up plan from a clumsy forger and con artist. If/when Kenyan authorities denounce this forgery, the conman can claim he was duped and then pathetically plays the “feel sorry for the victim” sympathy card. Whatever.

    So, how many years in prison is he facing now from his latest alleged crimes?

  105. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 8:47 pm #

    Northland10: So they keep all medical records, even ones from 48 years ago, on site and easily available? It must have been a very large building.

    How would I know the answer to that question? I have no idea, maybe microfilm? Or maybe 1,000 different explanations.

    Why don’t you (and everyone else here) just call the CPGH on the phone and ask them, today or tomorrow? What’s the hold-up?

  106. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 8:49 pm #

    Majority Will: Nah. It’s just an idiotic back up plan from a clumsy forger and con artist. If/when Kenyan authorities denounce this forgery, the conman can claim he was duped and then pathetically plays the “feel sorry for the victim” sympathy card. Whatever.

    So, how many years in prison is he facing now from his latest alleged crimes?

    Not going to prison. I don’t like the food there nowadays. And the price of ice cream and pizza in there now is just way too much to afford on 38 cent an hour prison job.

  107. avatar
    Scientist July 24, 2011 at 8:49 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Why don’t you (and everyone else here) just call the CPGH on the phone and ask them, today or tomorrow? What’s the hold-up?

    I did. They said they never heard of you and that Obama wasn’t born there.

  108. avatar
    Sef July 24, 2011 at 8:51 pm #

    Majority Will: Nah. It’s just an idiotic back up plan from a clumsy forger and con artist. If/when Kenyan authorities denounce this forgery, the conman can claim he was duped and then pathetically plays the “feel sorry for the victim” sympathy card. Whatever.

    If he’s gonna play that card he’ll have to show us the passport with the Kenya visa. Hope he doesn’t have the new MacOSX as several Adobe apps don’t work on it including Photoshop.

  109. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 8:55 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Sure Lucas you’re entirely believable being a convicted forger and all.It just so happens she must have magically put the wrong administrator who wasn’t even in that position when you supposedly went.Yes I’m sure if she was 16 you would have had your way with her.

    Well, if she 16 years old I probably would have kissed her. You probably would have to if you were attracted to women. Unfortunately, she looked A LOT older than 16..

    And yes, for her to use a misspelled stamp (if it indeed is misspelled) makes perfect sense. It couldn’t be more perfect. And to top that, its not even her name on the stamp. Even more perfect.

  110. avatar
    AnotherBird July 24, 2011 at 8:57 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Doc,

    Can you believe the nerve of this guy Expelliarmus?He links to PDF for a 2010 revised edition of a 1972 Kenyan law.

    Not to mention the fact that birth record from the Republic of Kenya (1964-present) can’t be used as evidence’ against a birth record issued from the Kenya Protectorate (1920-1964).

    Geez, what a dolt.

    It is kind of fortunate that I have an extra strong irony meter.

    Absolutely, no one in Kenya will authenticate your birth certificate. Honestly, it seems that they would rather throw you in jail for the numerous crimes that were created in forging a government document. Where is your mole?

    There has to be someone, anyone, who is willing to back your claims up. We have a media empire is a center of a controversy because one person was willing to step forward. We have one soldier waiting for his court martial because he believed he was doing the right thing. Where is your mole?

    No more distractions for the real issue. One recent distraction was using a government web site as proof of a dating format used on official documents in 1961. You didn’t even notice the error there.

    There have been requests for you to provide some proof that you were in Kenya or Africa during the period in question.

    You have two things to do. Prove that your document is authentic, and find someone that is willing to support its authenticity. Everything else is just “noise.”

  111. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 9:00 pm #

    Scientist: I did.They said they never heard of you and that Obama wasn’t born there.

    What did they first say when they picked up the phone?

    What day and time did you call?

    What was the person(s)’s name(s) that you spoke with?

    How did you call? From your house phone or cell phone?

    Did you record the call?

    Lastly, how was their English? Could you understand it? And even more importantly, could they under the English that you used?

    You’re lying, you did not call them. I’ve sat with an attorney and called the hospital on many occasions. I know exactly what happens.

  112. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 9:02 pm #

    AnotherBird: Absolutely, no one in Kenya will authenticate your birth certificate.

    How do you know? You been on the horn with everybody in Kenya?

  113. avatar
    Sef July 24, 2011 at 9:05 pm #

    AnotherBird: Honestly, it seems that they would rather throw you in jail for the numerous crimes that were created in forging a government document.

    Plus, he has confessed. We can add another country to the list in which he’ll never set foot again.

  114. avatar
    Scientist July 24, 2011 at 9:09 pm #

    Lucas: You never answer anyone’s questions so I will not answer yours.

    It is a simple fact that CPGH has never heard of you and that Barack Obama was not born there (neither Sr nor Jr). It is also a fact that Stanley Ann Dunham never set foot in Kenya.

  115. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 9:09 pm #

    AnotherBird: One recent distraction was using a government web site as proof of a dating format used on official documents in 1961. You didn’t even notice the error there.

    How do you know it was an ‘error’? Oh, is that because old Doc Conspiracy reported the story a in wee bit of a deceptive manner? He only mention the 6/28/2008 and only showed that one in his screenshot. He conveniently omitted the 05/15/2008 and also did not include it in his screenshot even though it was located directly below the bottom of his screenshot.

    Secondly, why hasn’t Kenya ‘fixed’ their government website if it is wrong?

    Thirdly, are you make the claim that that is the Kenyan government website that doesn’t use DD/MM/YYYY? If you are, then I call your bluff (or your ignorance).

    Thanks.

  116. avatar
    Sef July 24, 2011 at 9:16 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: How do you know it was an error’? Oh, is that because old Doc Conspiracy reported the story a in wee bit of a deceptive manner? He only mention the 6/28/2008 and only showed that one in his screenshot. He conveniently omitted the 05/15/2008 and also did not include it in his screenshot even though it was located directly below the bottom of his screenshot.

    Secondly, why hasn’t Kenya fixed’ their government website if it is wrong?

    Thirdly, are you make the claim that that is the Kenyan government website that doesn’t use DD/MM/YYYY? If you are, then I call your bluff (or your ignorance).

    Thanks.

    Lucas, why did you quit beating your wife?

  117. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 9:17 pm #

    Scientist:
    Lucas:You never answer anyone’s questions so I will not answer yours.

    It is a simple fact that CPGH has never heard of you and that Barack Obama was not born there (neither Sr nor Jr).It is also a fact that Stanley Ann Dunham never set foot in Kenya.

    How do you know CPGH has never heard of me? That’s a rather odd, atypical (and doltish) statement for a internet-scientist to make.

    Even if you were correct in your erroneous accusation that adventures Lucas Smith never been to CPGH….why would that mean that CPGH has ‘never heard of’ me?

    You’re not to bright. I don’t think that you are scientist in real life. I think that you just play one on TV maybe.

    And how would you know that Ann Dunham ‘never set foot in Kenya’? Let’s assume erroneously that she wasn’t there in 1961. How do you know that she wasn’t in Kenya at some future point?

    Gaaauwwd…….must I continue to point these sort of things out to you?

  118. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 9:18 pm #

    Sef: Lucas, why did you quit beating your wife?

    I don’t follow you. I’ve never beaten my wife.

  119. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 9:20 pm #

    Sef: Plus, he has confessed. We can add another country to the list in which he’ll never set foot again.

    What did I confess to doing? Are you hitting the bottle on a church day or am I missing something here?

  120. avatar
    Scientist July 24, 2011 at 9:25 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: And how would you know that Ann Dunham never set foot in Kenya’? Let’s assume erroneously that she wasn’t there in 1961. How do you know that she wasn’t in Kenya at some future point?

    It would be ungentlemanly of me to tell you the circumstances under which Stanley Ann and i spoke of our life experiences. She was a great lady, but her interests, both sciientifically and personally, were in Southeast Asia. She had nothing against Africa at all, but anthropologists generally do best when they specialize.

  121. avatar
    Majority Will July 24, 2011 at 9:26 pm #

    “You’re not to bright.”

    That line just smoked half a dozen irony meters.

  122. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 24, 2011 at 9:27 pm #

    The article is not in the least deceptive. It says “some dates in the US format” (“dates” plural).

    Lucas D. Smith: Oh, is that because old Doc Conspiracy reported the story a in wee bit of a deceptive manner? He only mention the 6/28/2008 and only showed that one in his screenshot.

  123. avatar
    Sef July 24, 2011 at 9:32 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: What did I confess to doing? Are you hitting the bottle on a church day or am I missing something here?

    Your entire Kenya story is filled with Kenya crimes. Now, if you want to recant, please go ahead.

  124. avatar
    Scientist July 24, 2011 at 9:34 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: I don’t think that you are scientist in real life. I think that you just play one on TV maybe.

    You must be a fan of my show, “The Big Bang Theory”

    BAZINGA!!!

    Don’t forget to catch next year’s great season. I hear you will have plenty of time to watch in jail.

  125. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 9:34 pm #

    Scientist: It would be ungentlemanly of me to tell you the circumstances under which Stanley Ann and i spoke of our life experiences.She was a great lady, but her interests, both sciientifically and personally, were in Southeast Asia.She had nothing against Africa at all, but anthropologists generally do best when they specialize.

    ??? I think that you should put the bottle of Victory gin down for the night. Order yourself a pizza, eat two slices and then head for your little twin-sized bed where a internet picture of Ann Dunham hangs on adjacent wall. From there you can gaze fixedly and intently at her picture and practice the law of attraction with your mind and an old tube sock, then, just maybe, in the next life you might have a chance with Ann Dunham.

  126. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 9:38 pm #

    Sef: Your entire Kenya story is filled with Kenya crimes. Now, if you want to recant, please go ahead.

    I see. Well, luckily such things in Kenya are quite normal. I was thinking about returning to Kenya to visit the young tempest Rosemary again. I’m sure everything will be fine. And if not, I just slip the Kenyan police $7 US dollars and they forget all about Lucas Daniel Smith.

  127. avatar
    Sef July 24, 2011 at 9:41 pm #

    Scientist: You must be a fan of my show, “The Big Bang Theory”

    BAZINGA!!!

    Don’t forget to catch next year’s great season.I hear you will have plenty of time to watch in jail.

    If that is your show you need to tell the cast how to pronounce “Lanthanides” and “Actinides”. I cringe when I see that episode.

  128. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 9:44 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    The article is not in the least deceptive. It says “some dates in the US format” (“dates” plural).

    No, it’s deceptive. You only point out 06/28/2008 (and not 05/15/2008) and your screenshot just happens to cut of the very next upcoming event which would have shown the 05/15/2008 date format.

    You knew that your readers wouldn’t bother wasting their time to watch my video to see the rest.

    And, so, you have people in your thread talking all about how 06/28/2008 is just an error. And not a single person, other than me, makes reference to the 05/15/2008 date.

    Perhaps you didn’t do this intentionally. I certainly can’t read your mind.

    Lastly, though this doesn’t have anything to do with deception though, that Kenyan gov website is not the only Kenyan gov website that doesn’t use DD/MM/YYYY. I know one that doesn’t us it all.

  129. avatar
    Scientist July 24, 2011 at 9:44 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: I just slip the Kenyan police $7 US dollars and they forget all about Lucas Daniel Smith.

    I will forget about you for free,

  130. avatar
    Scientist July 24, 2011 at 9:45 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: I just slip the Kenyan police $7 US dollars

    Lucas, don’t tell me you made a $7 bill.

  131. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 9:48 pm #

    Majority Will:
    “You’re not to bright.”

    That line just smoked half a dozen irony meters.

    Yeah, fast internet type spelling of ‘to’ instead of ‘too’ is just a sure sign of a person not being bright. Much more so than a ‘scientist’ making all sorts of wild reckless claims.

  132. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 9:52 pm #

    Scientist: Lucas, don’t tell me you made a $7 bill.

    Well, there was that one time when you wife called begging for a little change. I told her that if she could clean a pork sword that I’d give her a 7 dollar bill.

    She a good cleaner. Didn’t even spill anything.

  133. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 9:53 pm #

    Scientist: I will forget about you for free,

    Why do you always keep writing to me then?

  134. avatar
    Expelliarmus July 24, 2011 at 9:53 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: You are saying then that this is not a certified’ hospital birth record that have uploaded to my Patriot1980 scribd.com account?

    The image you posted is a “certificate”, but it is not a “certified” record — it does not have any sort of stamp and seal. Rather, its simply an image made of the original souvenir document given to the parent.

    Perhaps it would help you if you understood the reason why some records are “certified”. If the law requires a public agency to keep and maintain the original record, then that agency is precluded by law from every releasing that original, and the better practice would be also to carefully limit access to the original lest it be damaged or stolen In that case, it is impossible for any person to ever get the “original” — because the “original” alway stays on file with the agency.

    “Certification” is the way that the agency attests to the fact that there is an original file. A “certified” document is one that says, somewhere, “we have the original and this is a true and correct copy.”

  135. avatar
    Expelliarmus July 24, 2011 at 9:57 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: I paid a female Kenyan hospital administrator, at CPGH, $5,000.00 US dollars to fetch me a certified copy of Barack Obama’s original hospital certificate of birth.

    If that’s true, then there is one Kenyan hospital employee who is $5000 richer and laughing her ass off.

  136. avatar
    Majority Will July 24, 2011 at 10:00 pm #

    Scientist: Lucas, don’t tell me you made a $7 bill.

    It probably has a portrait of his BFF Brucie in a powdered wig pretending to be James Polk.

  137. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 10:02 pm #

    Expelliarmus: it does not have any sort of stamp and seal.

    Put down you Victory gin and throw on your old spectacles and then you might be able the see the clear and pristine SEAL on the birth certificate.

    While your at, perhaps you can just stop writing whatever sounds good, you know the pseudo-scientific crap.

  138. avatar
    Scientist July 24, 2011 at 10:10 pm #

    Majority Will: It probably has a portrait of his BFF Brucie in a powdered wig pretending to be James Polk.

    No, the picture is Polk. However, Lucas spelled it “Poke” when he printed the bill.

  139. avatar
    Majority Will July 24, 2011 at 10:19 pm #

    Scientist: No, the picture is Polk.However, Lucas spelled it “Poke” when he printed the bill.

    Janes Poke.

  140. avatar
    Expelliarmus July 24, 2011 at 10:21 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Link to a PDF for a 2010 revised edition of a 1972 Kenyan law??? …..AMAZING.

    I posted the 2010 version of the law that has been on the books since 1948, with annotations as to all revisions.

    From page 4 of the PDF:
    “Cap. 143 (1948),
    25 of 1950,
    15 of 1961,
    28 of 1961,
    36 of 1962,
    21 of 1966,
    L.N. 299/1956,
    L.N. 300/1956,
    L.N. 172/1960,
    L.N. 173/1960,
    L.N. 462/1963,
    L.N. 168/1964,
    29 of 1967,
    26 of 1968,
    14 of 1971,
    7 of 1990”

    The fake hospital certificate purports to have been issued in 2009. Therefore, a valid certification of birth would be expected to be on whatever forms were in use in 2009.

    The birth & death registration rules (at p. 14), which specify the forms to be used, do not appear to have been revised since 1988.. That’s what this margin note means:

    “L.N. 270/1966,
    L.N. 187/1969,
    L.N. 43/1970,
    L.N. 128/1975,
    L.N. 49/1981,
    L.N. 244/1988”

    Not to mention the fact that a birth record from the Republic of Kenya (1964-present) can’t be used as evidence’ against a birth record issued from the Kenya Protectorate (1920-1964).

    You didn’t produce a birth record from the “Kenya Protectorate”, you produced a fake copy of a hospital-issued certificate purportedly issued in 2009. And the fact that CAP 149 dates back to 1948 negates your little theory about public records.

    Here’s another link to the same law (CAP 149), with some different viewing options that may make it easier to see relevant dates of amendments to various sections.
    http://www.kenyalaw.org/kenyalaw/klr_app/frames.php

    You’ll find the forms under “The Births and Deaths Registration Rules”

  141. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 24, 2011 at 10:24 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Well, if she 16 years old I probably would have kissed her.You probably would have to if you were attracted to women.Unfortunately, she looked A LOT older than 16..

    And yes, for her to use a misspelled stamp (if it indeed is misspelled) makes perfect sense. It couldn’t be more perfect. And to top that, its not even her name on the stamp. Even more perfect.

    Sorry Lucas but unlike you I don’t have a fancy to molest children. You do realize it’s still statutory rape even if she looks really attractive or looks older. Did the people in prison know that you’re a child molester or did you just keep your mouth shut?

    It wasn’t that it was misspelled its that you had the wrong administrator in the forgery you created.

  142. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 24, 2011 at 10:25 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: I don’t follow you.I’ve never beaten my wife.

    Does your wife know you fancy children?

  143. avatar
    Majority Will July 24, 2011 at 10:25 pm #

    Scientist: No, the picture is Polk.However, Lucas spelled it “Poke” when he printed the bill.

    Did you know Janes Poke lived in a haunted house in Columbia, Tennessee and sold his kidney to fund his election campaign? It’s on display at the Smithsonian.

  144. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 10:41 pm #

    Expelliarmus: I posted the 2010 version of the law that has been on the books since 1948, with annotations as to all revisions.

    From page 4 of the PDF:
    “Cap. 143 (1948),
    25 of 1950,
    15 of 1961,
    28 of 1961,
    36 of 1962,
    21 of 1966,
    L.N. 299/1956,
    L.N. 300/1956,
    L.N. 172/1960,
    L.N. 173/1960,
    L.N. 462/1963,
    L.N. 168/1964,
    29 of 1967,
    26 of 1968,
    14 of 1971,
    7 of 1990‘

    The fake hospital certificate purports to have been issued in 2009. Therefore, a valid certification of birth would be expected to be on whatever forms were in use in 2009.

    The birth & death registration rules (at p. 14), which specify the forms to be used, do not appear to have been revised since 1988.. That’s what this margin note means:

    “L.N.270/1966,
    L.N. 187/1969,
    L.N. 43/1970,
    L.N. 128/1975,
    L.N. 49/1981,
    L.N. 244/1988‘

    You didn’t produce a birth record from the “Kenya Protectorate”, you produced a fake copy of a hospital-issued certificate purportedly issued in 2009.And the fact that CAP 149 dates back to 1948 negates your little theory about public records.

    Here’s another link to the same law (CAP 149), with some different viewing options that may make it easier to see relevant dates of amendments to various sections.
    http://www.kenyalaw.org/kenyalaw/klr_app/frames.php

    You’ll find the forms under “The Births and Deaths Registration Rules”

    Are you really serious???

    Oh course CAP 143 has been around for a long time. But you don’t have the original or one that predates 1961. And furthermore, you reading it through like a foreigner reading an US vagrancy law that they found online for the first time and then telling all of their buds about how in America that you will go to jail if you don’t always have at least 5 dollars in your pocket.

    Then, additionally, your forgetting that the birth certificate that I obtained is hospital birth certificate and not a government issued. Then, additionally, your not understanding that the Kenya Protectorate and the Kenya Colony are not the same entity.

    Lastly, and gaaauuwd I can’t believe that I have to explain this but dang man please pay attention a little, I mean how can debate any of this if you still don’t understand that the 2009-certified CPGH document is a COPY of an 1961 Kenya Protectorate Hospital birth certificate. You understand what that implies rather pristine? It means that it’s now a 2009 format or 2009 form.

    Weak. Back to your internet drawing board.

  145. avatar
    Expelliarmus July 24, 2011 at 10:42 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Sef: Anybody can put a seal on anything, but that doesn’t mean it has any value. This is just a souvenir.

    Perhaps, maybe, nowadays it doesn’t. However, it meant something back then.

    You can buy a “seal” at any stationary store.

    And the system for civil registration of births in Kenya was established in 1948.

    Here’s a reference from the Kenya Gazette in 1951:
    http://goo.gl/twN8T

    And apparently there was an earlier law, because here’s a reference from 1913 to the Registrar General for Births and Deaths, based on a law passed in 1904:
    http://goo.gl/9UCIo

    And here’s a great entry — look at notice #1852
    http://goo.gl/vSKtO
    It’s a public notice from 1952 from someone in Mombasa, referencing his birth certificate filed with the Registrar of Births in Mombasa in 1944 (for a person actually born in 1936).

    I do recognize that if you had actually ever traveled to Mombasa, your likelihood of being arrested and thrown in jail would have been much higher had you tried to bribe someone in the district registrar’s office as opposed to a local hospital –but since when has fear of incarceration ever been a deterrent for you?

  146. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 10:46 pm #

    Expelliarmus:.

    TYPO: “It means that it’s now a 2009 format or 2009 form.”

    Intended to read as: “It means that it’s NOT a 2009 format or 2009 form.”

    Btw, you not the first person to bring of the CAP crap. This was discussed long ago at FreeRepublic.com before I was banned from over.

    Obots got their but kicked with that CAP law crap.

  147. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 10:51 pm #

    Expelliarmus: You can buy a “seal” at any stationary store.

    And the system for civil registration of births in Kenya was established in 1948.

    Here’sa reference from the Kenya Gazette in 1951:
    http://goo.gl/twN8T

    And apparently there was an earlier law, because here’s a reference from 1913 to the Registrar General for Births and Deaths, based on a law passed in 1904:
    http://goo.gl/9UCIo

    And here’s a great entry — look at notice #1852
    http://goo.gl/vSKtO
    It’s a public notice from 1952 from someone in Mombasa, referencing his birth certificate filed with the Registrar of Births in Mombasa in 1944 (for a person actually born in 1936).

    I do recognize that if you had actually ever traveled to Mombasa, your likelihood of being arrested and thrown in jail would have been much higher had you tried to bribe someone in the district registrar’s office as opposed to a local hospital –but since when has fear of incarceration ever been a deterrent for you?

    Your about a year and half late with your findings again. This has all been discussed and dismissed long ago. Top Obot contenders git slammed.

    Keep citing all night if you’d like.

    But when you can show me a template for a 1961 Kenya Protectorate Coast Province General Hospital birth certificate then you might have something worth talking about.

    You’re nothing more than a computer geek.

  148. avatar
    AnotherBird July 24, 2011 at 10:59 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: How do you know it was an error’? Oh, is that because old Doc Conspiracy reported the story a in wee bit of a deceptive manner? He only mention the 6/28/2008 and only showed that one in his screenshot. He conveniently omitted the 05/15/2008 and also did not include it in his screenshot even though it was located directly below the bottom of his screenshot.

    Secondly, why hasn’t Kenya fixed’ their government website if it is wrong?

    Thirdly, are you make the claim that that is the Kenyan government website that doesn’t use DD/MM/YYYY? If you are, then I call your bluff (or your ignorance).

    Thanks.

    A government web page isn’t an official government document. It wasn’t even the government agency that maintains government records. The page wasn’t created on or before 1961. It is information about events in Kenya. So, if you can fine me a web page from 1961 then I will fold.

    One more thing. I like many others actually take the time to look at your references. That is all part of the process, isn’t it.

  149. avatar
    gorefan July 24, 2011 at 11:02 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: But when you can show me a template for a 1961 Kenya Protectorate Coast Province General Hospital birth certificate then you might have something worth talking about.

    Why would there be a template? You could have just created the hospial thing on your own. Unless you can show us another hospital certificate.

  150. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 11:03 pm #

    Expelliarmus: You can buy a “seal” at any stationary store.

    Oh…..gaaauuwd…..so now you do see the SEAL? What happened to your claim about there NOT being a SEAL on the 1950 hospital document???

    I see, rather than be a man for once and just man-up to a mistake you now offer the following immature (and rather pathetic) commentary: “You can buy a “seal” at any stationary store.”

    And what about your other claims, aside from a SEAL that you said wasn’t there but in fact really was? You know, the claim about the mandatory ink STAMP that is missing from the 1950 birth document? That’s one of the wildest claims I’ve hear yet. There are a plethora of state issued birth certificate that do not contain ink STAMPS. Perhaps you can find some online images as you perform THE GOOGLE???

    I usually recommend that people but the bottle down. However, for you, I’m going to make an atypical recommendation that you start drinking soon and consume mass quantities each night so that you can escape from the washout life that you lead.

  151. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 11:06 pm #

    AnotherBird: A government web page isn’t an official government document. It wasn’t even the government agency that maintains government records. The page wasn’t created on or before 1961. It is information about events in Kenya. So, if you can fine me a web page from 1961 then I will fold.

    One more thing. I like many others actually take the time to look at your references. That is all part of the process, isn’t it.

    Who said anything about finding a 1961 website? I said find me a 1961 template for the DOCUMENT. Understand?

    Do you need a 1961 website for that?

    Check my blog and you sell a REAL scan of 1944 Mombasa newspaper. You think I found that on a 1944 website page do you?

    What a dolt. Is one of your parents also your uncle or aunt?

  152. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 11:12 pm #

    gorefan: Why would there be a template?You could have just created the hospial thing on your own.Unless you can show us another hospital certificate.

    ahhhhhh….are you following this discussion at all? You sort of remind of a little kid that tries to jump into a adult conversation.

    This discussion isn’t about me finding something that matches the Obama’s 1961 CPGH birth record. In this discussion there is a computer geek that is attempting to use a long ago played-out and discredited argument that he/she has found what a 1961 CPGH birth certificate should look like and that it doesn’t look like the one I obtained

    Now back to your Candy Land game now my child.

  153. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 24, 2011 at 11:12 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Who said anything about finding a 1961 website? I said find me a 1961 template for the DOCUMENT. Understand?

    Do you need a 1961 website for that?

    Check my blog and you sell a REAL scan of 1944 Mombasa newspaper. You think I found that on a 1944 website page do you?

    What a dolt. Is one of your parents also your uncle or aunt?

    That flew over your head didn’t it Lucas? He was being facetious. So Lucas you never answered if you kept your mouth shut about you being interested in teenage children while in prison. Usually they don’t take too kindly to child molesters.

  154. avatar
    AnotherBird July 24, 2011 at 11:13 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Well, gaaauwwd, I suppose because I didn’t forge the birth certificate.I paid a female Kenyan hospital administrator, at CPGH, $5,000.00 US dollars to fetch me a certified copy of Barack Obama’s original hospital certificate of birth.She was a nice lady.If she were younger in age I might have gave her a kiss too!

    So, you are out $5,000.00 US and still their isn’t one person who would step forward to support your claims. There are many people who would just step forward because it was the right thing to do.

    Anyways, many people would have given her a big kiss on the check if she provided the document you claim that she had. That is no matter what her age was, because they where feeling euphoria. Well, it just may be me.

  155. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 24, 2011 at 11:14 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: ahhhhhh….are you following this discussion at all? You sort of remind of a little kid that tries to jump into a adult conversation.

    This discussion isn’t about me finding something that matches the Obama’s 1961 CPGH birth record. In this discussion there is a computer geek that is attempting to use a long ago played-out and discredited argument that he/she has found what a 1961 CPGH birth certificate should look like and that it doesn’t look like the one I obtained

    Now back to your Candy Land game now my child.

    Long played out? You mean freerepublic refuted it? That’s laughable. Freerepublic’s idea of refuting an argument is by deleting contrary opinions in the thread and banning the original poster. Now Lucas it shouldn’t be too hard for you to find another that looks exactly like yours that can be used in an official capacity.

  156. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 24, 2011 at 11:15 pm #

    AnotherBird: So, you are out $5,000.00 US and still their isn’t one person who would step forward to support your claims. There are many people who would just step forward because it was the right thing to do.

    Anyways, many people would have given her a big kiss on the check if she provided the document you claim that she had. That is no matter what her age was, because they where feeling euphoria. Well, it just may be me.

    yeah but Lucas was saying that if she was 16 he would have made out with her and done many inappropriate things.

  157. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 11:16 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): That flew over your head didn’t it Lucas?He was being facetious.So Lucas you never answered if you kept your mouth shut about you being interested in teenage children while in prison.Usually they don’t take too kindly to child molesters.

    I feel sorry for you. Perhaps Doc Conspiracy can chime in AGAIN and help you understand things again. You need a little helppy hand tonight again?

    But, here goes anyway. The person that made the comment was saying that OF COURSE there is not going to be a 1961 web page to consult.

    I then explained to them that I was not saying that there was a 1961 web page to consult. I went further to say that what is need is an actual birth document from that time period to consult.

    I then explained about the Mombasa newspaper from 1944 that I have and have digitized.

    You understand now? Or shall we wait for Doc to chime in again and help you?

  158. avatar
    AnotherBird July 24, 2011 at 11:18 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: I see.Well, luckily such things in Kenya are quite normal. I was thinking about returning to Kenya to visit the young tempest Rosemary again. I’m sure everything will be fine.And if not, I just slip the Kenyan police $7 US dollars and they forget all about Lucas Daniel Smith.

    You want to make sure that they know you first. You might not know how they will react.

  159. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 24, 2011 at 11:19 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: I feel sorry for you. Perhaps Doc Conspiracy can chime in AGAIN and help you understand things again. You need a little helppy hand tonight again?

    But, here goes anyway.The person that made the comment was saying that OF COURSE there is not going to be a 1961 web page to consult.

    I then explained to them that I was not saying that there was a 1961 web page to consult. I went further to say that what is need is an actual birth document from that time period to consult.

    I then explained about the Mombasa newspaper from 1944 that I have and have digitized.

    You understand now?Or shall we wait for Doc to chime in again and help you?

    I already understood that. You called the person a dolt and didn’t understand he was being facetious. So why don’t you bribe someone else to get a comparative birth certificate from the same time period?

  160. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 11:20 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Long played out?You mean freerepublic refuted it?That’s laughable.Freerepublic’s idea of refuting an argument is by deleting contrary opinions in the thread and banning the original poster.Now Lucas it shouldn’t be too hard for you to find another that looks exactly like yours that can be used in an official capacity.

    FreeRepublic was NEVER NEVER NEVER on my side. I sued to post there to spar with other Freeper.

    Then a few real Obots such as Great Kim aka Mik Taerg joined FreeRepublic and brought of the CAP Law crap.

    I destroyed that CAP law crap in a very effective manner.

    You understand now? Or do I need to call Doc Conspiracy again for you?

    Again, I was banned from FreeRepublic. Only a small handful of Freeper ever enjoyed my company. You people at Doc’s blog are more friendly then they were.

  161. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 11:21 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): I already understood that.You called the person a dolt and didn’t understand he was being facetious.So why don’t you bribe someone else to get a comparative birth certificate from the same time period?

    Man, can you ever admit when you made a mistake?

  162. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 24, 2011 at 11:21 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: FreeRepublic was NEVER NEVER NEVER on my side. I sued to post there to spar with other Freeper.

    Then a few real Obots such as Great Kim aka Mik Taerg joined FreeRepublic and brought of the CAP Law crap.

    I destroyed that CAP law crap in a very effective manner.

    You understand now?Or do I need to call Doc Conspiracy again for you?

    Again, I was banned from FreeRepublic.Only a small handful of Freeper ever enjoyed my company. You people at Doc’s blog are more friendly then they were.

    How exactly did you destroy it? Thus far I’ve seen your idea of “destroying” is to completely change the subject and call someone a homo. You were banned from Free Republic? wow the only problem is that’s not hard. For someone on their side as you were they must have thought you even too extreme for them. I got banned after one post because I said Orly Taitz was insane.

  163. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 24, 2011 at 11:23 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Man, can you ever admit when you made a mistake?

    Where did I make a mistake?

    You said this to Anotherbird: Who said anything about finding a 1961 website? I said find me a 1961 template for the DOCUMENT. Understand?

    Do you need a 1961 website for that?

    Check my blog and you sell a REAL scan of 1944 Mombasa newspaper. You think I found that on a 1944 website page do you?

    What a dolt. Is one of your parents also your uncle or aunt?

    —-
    I then told you Anotherbird was being facetious and you didn’t understand that. Again as usual Lucas when you look like a dumbass you start insulting people. So again did you tell people you liked doing things with children when you were in the joint?

  164. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 11:26 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): yeah but Lucas was saying that if she was 16 he would have made out with her and done many inappropriate things.

    Not everyone is like you. Some of us men actually feel a physical attraction to females. You know, we want to kiss them and have sex or make love.

    You understand that one? Or was that person being facetious or was it now perhaps you that is being facetious?

    I have an idea. Each time that you say something that sounds like it was thought up in the brain the size of ground squirrel’s brain and I then correct you on it (unless Dr Conspiracy corrects you again before I do!) you can just give an auto response of:

    facetious/facetious/facetious/facetious/facetiousfacetious/facetiousfacetiousfacetious/facetiousfacetiousfacetiousfacetious/facetious/facetious/facetious…..and facetious.

  165. avatar
    AnotherBird July 24, 2011 at 11:32 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Who said anything about finding a 1961 website? I said find me a 1961 template for the DOCUMENT. Understand?

    Do you need a 1961 website for that?

    Check my blog and you sell a REAL scan of 1944 Mombasa newspaper. You think I found that on a 1944 website page do you?

    What a dolt. Is one of your parents also your uncle or aunt?

    We will call that whiplash.

    It was you through your video that referred to a government website as proof of date format in Kenya. Your the one that spent the time editing, and putting it on YouTube. Are you now going to delete the video as it is no longer proof, or are you going to return to insisting that it is.

    I need not produce anything. It is you who needs to submit proof that your document is authentic. I am satisfied that Obama’s birth certificate is authentic.

  166. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 11:32 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Where did I make a mistake?

    You said this to Anotherbird: Who said anything about finding a 1961 website? I said find me a 1961 template for the DOCUMENT. Understand?

    Do you need a 1961 website for that?

    Check my blog and you sell a REAL scan of 1944 Mombasa newspaper. You think I found that on a 1944 website page do you?

    What a dolt. Is one of your parents also your uncle or aunt?

    —-
    I then told you Anotherbird was being facetious and you didn’t understand that.Again as usual Lucas when you look like a dumbass you start insulting people.So again did you tell people you liked doing things with children when you were in the joint?

    Your mistake is that Anotherbird WASNT being ‘facetious’.

    They said:

    “A government web page isn’t an official government document. It wasn’t even the government agency that maintains government records. The page wasn’t created on or before 1961. It is information about events in Kenya.”

    I then told them that I’m not talking about someone finding me a website with 1961 era data regarding birth records.

    I told them that they need to provide a scan of a real document from 1961. I then gave the example of the 1944 Mombasa newspapers that I have.

    You understand now? Nothing ‘not serious’ about it. Not a joke.

  167. avatar
    Obsolete July 24, 2011 at 11:32 pm #

    How come Lucas didn’t know Obama Sr’s birthdate? When he made the POSFKBC, it wasn’t in the public record. Convenient.

    Hawaii still says you are lying, Lucas.

    I know a librarian at a university. A former alumni member donated a rare book on Lincoln. Sorting through it, it contained a letter which may have been written and signed by Lincoln. She knew enough to know that it looked like Lincoln’s signature, but she turned it over to experts who are examining it.
    Do you know what she didn’t do? She didn’t try to argue it was Lincoln’s and suddenly know everything about letters, date formats, paper, ink etc. from that time period. All she did was find it and leave it to experts.

    Lucas has uncommon knowledge about the POSFKBC. He has forgers knowledge, and a forgers library where he pulls his info from. It is not the layman’s knowledge one might expect a person who simply stumbled upon such a document.
    Anyone could see you forged it after talking with you about it. There is no reason for you to know so much arcana related to its every aspect. You have too much emotionally invested in it, and it just burns you up that you still made errors on it.

  168. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 11:34 pm #

    AnotherBird: We will call that whiplash.

    It was you through your video that referred to a government website as proof of date format in Kenya. Your the one that spent the time editing, and putting it on YouTube. Are you now going to delete the video as it is no longer proof, or are you going to return to insisting that it is.

    I need not produce anything. It is you who needs to submit proof that your document is authentic. I am satisfied that Obama’s birth certificate is authentic.

    Thanks for taking that video COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTEXT.

    Lay off the Victory gin lady.

    I cannot hardly believe that you’ve made that comment. Get your head checked.

  169. avatar
    Majority Will July 24, 2011 at 11:36 pm #

    Obsolete: You have too much emotionally invested in it, and it just burns you up that you still made errors on it.

    And bail these days isn’t cheap.

  170. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 11:40 pm #

    Obsolete:
    How come Lucas didn’t know Obama Sr’s birthdate? When he made the POSFKBC, it wasn’t in the public record. Convenient.

    Hawaii still says you are lying, Lucas.

    I know a librarian at a university. A former alumni member donated a rare book on Lincoln. Sorting through it, it contained a letter which may have been written and signed by Lincoln. She knew enough to know that it looked like Lincoln’s signature, but she turned it over to experts who are examining it.
    Do you know what she didn’t do? She didn’t try to argue it was Lincoln’s and suddenly know everything about letters, date formats, paper, ink etc. from that time period. All she did was find it and leave it to experts.

    Lucas has uncommon knowledge about the POSFKBC. He has forgers knowledge, and a forgers library where he pulls his info from. It is not the layman’s knowledge one might expect a person who simply stumbled upon such a document.
    Anyone could see you forged it after talking with you about it. There is no reason for you to know so much arcana related to its every aspect. You have too much emotionally invested in it, and it just burns you up that you still made errors on it.

    You are naive.

    Obama senior, along with millions of other Africans did not know his birth date. Once again, not all cultures are obsessive compulsive about dates and times and what time they took their last dump and taking precise notes on what they dump looked like, how corn was showing and what color and how long it was.

    However, when people like Obama senior came to the USA there was a problem. We cant just have people walking around with ID and paperwork that list date of birth as just a year.

    Whens the last time your ever heard or drivers license that allowed just a year for a DOB???

    What happens is that these people just adopt a full birth date. There’s no other option and such things were even recommended.

    Again, you are naive.

  171. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 24, 2011 at 11:44 pm #

    Obsolete:
    How come Lucas didn’t know Obama Sr’s birthdate? When he made the POSFKBC, it wasn’t in the public record. Convenient.

    Hawaii still says you are lying, Lucas.

    I know a librarian at a university. A former alumni member donated a rare book on Lincoln. Sorting through it, it contained a letter which may have been written and signed by Lincoln. She knew enough to know that it looked like Lincoln’s signature, but she turned it over to experts who are examining it.
    Do you know what she didn’t do? She didn’t try to argue it was Lincoln’s and suddenly know everything about letters, date formats, paper, ink etc. from that time period. All she did was find it and leave it to experts.

    Lucas has uncommon knowledge about the POSFKBC. He has forgers knowledge, and a forgers library where he pulls his info from. It is not the layman’s knowledge one might expect a person who simply stumbled upon such a document.
    Anyone could see you forged it after talking with you about it. There is no reason for you to know so much arcana related to its every aspect. You have too much emotionally invested in it, and it just burns you up that you still made errors on it.

    Yes, of course, what was I thinking? Why should I try to authenticate the document myself? That would just be preposterous wouldn’t it? NOT.

    I should just offer the document as authentic, based on nothing whatsoever, and not actual research???

  172. avatar
    AnotherBird July 24, 2011 at 11:57 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: I then explained to them that I was not saying that there was a 1961 web page to consult. I went further to say that what is need is an actual birth document from that time period to consult.

    You attempted to present the web page as prove as you clearly stated in your video.

    “Today, I am going to provide categorical and definitive proof that Kenya uses two different date formats.”

    “So we have Google. We are going to search for Kenya office of public communication.”

    “Here is the web site. As you can see it is a government ‘g-o-dot-k-e.’ It is a government of Kenya web site. We will click on this.”

    There is no need to continue.

    The core to my comment was …

    AnotherBird: You have two things to do. Prove that your document is authentic, and find someone that is willing to support its authenticity. Everything else is just “noise.”

    It was you who submitted the web site as proof. I position is that the web site isn’t the proof that you attempt to present it as being. As that there is no way in using it do determine what the date format was in 1961. Also, that it isn’t an official government document.

    The reference was because of this comment

    Lucas D. Smith: Doc,

    Can you believe the nerve of this guy Expelliarmus?He links to PDF for a 2010 revised edition of a 1972 Kenyan law.

    Not to mention the fact that birth record from the Republic of Kenya (1964-present) can’t be used as evidence’ against a birth record issued from the Kenya Protectorate (1920-1964).

    Geez, what a dolt.

    Btw, I have now published a new 07.23.2011 blog report!

    Operation Fish Bucket.’

    Expelliarmus produces a copy of an actual government document. Specifically, a law Something that it history can actually be traced back.

    Reread you comment, and please put anything that you have produced as “categorical and definitive proof” under the same scrutiny. That would only be fair.

  173. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 25, 2011 at 12:14 am #

    AnotherBird: You attempted to present the web page as prove as you clearly stated in your video.

    “Today, I am going to provide categorical and definitive proof that Kenya uses two different date formats.”

    “So we have Google. We are going to search for Kenya office of public communication.”

    “Here is the web site. As you can see it is a government ‘g-o-dot-k-e.’ It is a government of Kenya web site. We will click on this.”

    There is no need to continue.

    The core to my comment was …

    It was you who submitted the web site as proof. I position is that the web site isn’t the proof that you attempt to present it as being. As that there is no way in using it do determine what the date format was in 1961. Also, that it isn’t an official government document.

    The reference was because of this comment

    Expelliarmus produces a copy of an actual government document. Specifically, a law Something that it history can actually be traced back.

    Reread you comment, and please put anything that you have produced as “categorical and definitive proof” under the same scrutiny. That would only be fair.

    You taken everything out of context.

    My video was to demonstrate that Kenya used different date formats, not just date formats on tangible documents.

    Expelliarmus is attempting to prove that Obama’s 1961 CPGH hospital birth certificate in a forgery because he/she says that it doesn’t physically look like a 1961 Kenyan birth certificate.

    He/She needs to provide a scan of a tangible 1961 CPGH Kenya Protectorate hospital birth certificate. Not a website with details of the CAP law.

    I could probably add another 20 pages regarding the flaws with the CAP law argument crap. But, I’m working on another blog report tonight and also it doesn’t matter what I say here on Docs blog because most of you will never man up to having made a mistake or error. You’ll just keep talking all night and citing The Google.

    Again, you people remind me of some bored little nerd kid in another country that has stumbled upon some online state law for one of the US States. Perhaps a vagrancy law that states that you can be arrested if you don’t have at least $5 on you. The bored little computer nerd kid then tells all of his friends that in America you will be arrested if you don’t have at least $5 on your person.

    Good night.

  174. avatar
    Sef July 25, 2011 at 12:21 am #

    Lucas, to quote Carl Sagan “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”. You have provided no evidence of the validity of your POSKFBC. Why is that?

  175. avatar
    AnotherBird July 25, 2011 at 12:25 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: Thanks for taking that video COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTEXT.

    Lay off the Victory gin lady.

    I cannot hardly believe that you’ve made that comment.Get your head checked.

    I just hate to have to rewrite a previous comment.

    “Today, I am going to provide categorical and definitive proof that Kenya uses two different date formats. So we have Google. We are going to search for Kenya office of public communication. Here is the web site. As you can see it is a government ‘g-o-dot-k-e.’ It is a government of Kenya web site. We will click on this.”

    “Here we are that their homepage. Republic of Kenya Office of Public Communication, Office of government Spokesperson. We are going to click on media section. In the drop down we are going to come down to Up Coming Events.”

    “There is going to be an auto scroll here of the up coming events. And, directly after the events there is going to be a date most ????? date format. Some are written out partially.”

    “Just a brief intro. As you can see the numeric date formats are in a format day, month, year. 17 is the day. 10 is the month. And so on. And so on.” (I will stop here in transcribing.)

    So what is the purpose of all that? A desire to prove what?

  176. avatar
    Sef July 25, 2011 at 12:31 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: Perhaps a vagrancy law that states that you can be arrested if you don’t have at least $5 on you.

    Does that explain your penchant for $7 bills?

  177. avatar
    Sef July 25, 2011 at 12:41 am #

    Sef: Does that explain your penchant for $7 bills?

    I’m also wondering why a person of your financial standing would think nothing of handing over $5K to an unknown person for something of unknown value and with totally unknown expectation of getting reimbursed for it. Especially when there was no asking price. Makes no sense. Or maybe the $5K came from the same place as the $7 bills? So you knew you were getting something of no value, so you gave something of no value.

  178. avatar
    Expelliarmus July 25, 2011 at 12:46 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: Expelliarmus is attempting to prove that Obama’s 1961 CPGH hospital birth certificate in a forgery because he/she says that it doesn’t physically look like a 1961 Kenyan birth certificate.

    He/She needs to provide a scan of a tangible 1961 CPGH Kenya Protectorate hospital birth certificate. Not a website with details of the CAP law.

    HOSPITALS do not issue birth certificates, you idiot. Births are registered with the local civil registrar. That is the case in Kenya now, that was the case in 1961, that was the case in 1948 and 1944 and going all the way back to 1904 which is the earliest record I could find of a law being enacted in Kenya governing birth registrations.

    There is not a “scan of a tangible 1961 CPGH Kenya Protectorate hospital birth certificate” because no such thing ever existed.

    Just like there is no such thing as a $7 bill. So finding a “real” $7 bill to compare with the fake one not necessary to prove the forgery. The fact that it purports to be $7 suffices.

  179. avatar
    AnotherBird July 25, 2011 at 12:48 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: You taken everything out of context.

    My video was to demonstrate that Kenya used different date formats, not just date formats on tangible documents.

    Expelliarmus is attempting to prove that Obama’s 1961 CPGH hospital birth certificate in a forgery because he/she says that it doesn’t physically look like a 1961 Kenyan birth certificate.

    He/She needs to provide a scan of a tangible 1961 CPGH Kenya Protectorate hospital birth certificate. Not a website with details of the CAP law.

    I could probably add another 20 pages regarding the flaws with the CAP law argument crap.But, I’m working on another blog report tonight and also it doesn’t matter what I say here on Docs blog because most of you will never man up to having made a mistake or error.You’ll just keep talking all night and citing The Google.

    Again, you people remind me of some bored little nerd kid in another country that has stumbled upon some online state law for one of the US States. Perhaps a vagrancy law that states that you can be arrested if you don’t have at least $5 on you. The bored little computer nerd kid then tells all of his friends that in America you will be arrested if you don’t have at least $5 on your person.

    Good night.

    May that is what I referred to it as noise. The web site has no context whether or no a document from 1961 is authentic or not.

    Expelliarmus doesn’t have to prove that the CPGH is a forgery. All they have to do is cast doubt on the authenticity of the document. Then it is up to you to prove that it is authentic. If is suspected to be not be authenticity then it fake. However, if there is an attempt to portray it as authentic, then it becomes a forgery.

    You seem to get bogged down in things that don’t help prove whether or not your document is authentic.

    I will state it again.

    You have two things to do. Prove that your document is authentic, and find someone that is willing to support its authenticity.

  180. avatar
    Expelliarmus July 25, 2011 at 1:00 am #

    Obsolete: Lucas has uncommon knowledge about the POSFKBC. He has forgers knowledge, and a forgers library where he pulls his info from. It is not the layman’s knowledge one might expect a person who simply stumbled upon such a document.

    He has a forger’s level of defensiveness.

    Because he is a clumsy forger, he is embarrassed by the obvious blunders that are pointed out — the misspelling of Heltan Maganga’s name, the fact that Maganga was not yet in the position of hospital administrator as of the date reflected on the phony certificate, the use of the American date format. Those are not only errors, they are really stupid errors — mistakes than anyone who is halfway competent would not have made. So Lucas feels compelled to debate those points.

    If he had, in fact, simply purchased the certificate from a hospital employee, he’d be saying something along the lines of… “I don’t know, I can’t explain it, all I can say is this is what was provided to me.”

    But then again, if he paid $50 or $5000 to someone in Kenya to produce a birth certificate, that in itself is asinine. As Doc Conspiracy found out when he “hired” a Kenya detective, it is not hard to find people in Kenya willing to sell fake documents for a profit. Heck, if some idiot offered me $5000 for a phony Obama birth certificate, I’d probably be happy to make one up myself. (But I’d at least take the time to look up what form it ought to be on and get the date format right).

  181. avatar
    Obsolete July 25, 2011 at 1:12 am #

    Your library isn’t anything that could help you completely confirm the validity of the POSFKBC. It is only good for trying to make a passable forgery, because no amount of research YOU made and no pronouncements YOU could make would satisfy the rest of the world. Why didn’t you put in into the hands of experts whose word could be believed?
    Your opinion wouldn’t sway any court, so why bother confirming it yourself?

    Obama Sr’s birthdate was listed on the State Dept. FOIA docs, I believe. which came out after your POSFKBC
    You didn’t list Obama Sr.’s birthdate on the POSFKBC because you didn’t know it then, and you didn’t risk making one up in case the real birthdate surfaced later, which it did.
    Obama Sr. knew his birthdate. Only you didn’t.

    -Obsolete (the naive)

  182. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 25, 2011 at 2:22 am #

    TO EVERYONE:

    I have now published a new 07.25.2011 blog report!

    Doctor Merry/Mary Othigo and two hospitals in Mombasa, Kenya: Aga Khan Hospital and Coast Province General Hospital.

    http://www.wasobamaborninkenya.com/blog/barrack-obama-eligibility/doctor-merrymary-othigo-and-two-hospitals-in-mombasa-kenya-aga-khan-hospital-and-coast-province-general-hospital/#more-318

    Please read and feel free to comment!

  183. avatar
    G July 25, 2011 at 2:46 am #

    Most of us are able to control our impulses and attractions and not act out on them inappropriately. Besides, I thought you were married. Your contstant references to wanting other women (especially underage women) sure don’t seem to respect that marriage. I can’t imagine that your wife would be too pleased to see a lot of the things you say on here.

    Lucas D. Smith: Not everyone is like you. Some of us men actually feel a physical attraction to females. You know, we want to kiss them and have sex or make love.

  184. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 25, 2011 at 3:12 am #

    G:
    Most of us are able to control our impulses and attractions and not act out on them inappropriately.Besides, I thought you were married.Your contstant references to wanting other women (especially underage women) sure don’t seem to respect that marriage.I can’t imagine that your wife would be too pleased to see a lot of the things you say on here.

    Hi G,

    You are correct, most of us are able to control our impulses and attractions and not act out on them inappropriately.

    However, people like ‘Bob Ross’ here and many other people in the USA, have been brainwashed into believing that there is something evil or immoral about a man over the age of 18 having a sexual relationship with a woman of age 16.

    Furthermore, I’m very certain that people such as ‘Bob Ross’ is also attracted to women under the age of 18. If not, I’m then very certain that he is very, very much a homosexual. And I don’t say that as pun or as a jab at him or anyone else.

    Most American men will put up facade that oh, no way, no way would they look upon a woman that is under the age of 18 in a sexual way. Yet on the inside they feel exactly the opposite.

    Abroad I’ve encountered all sort men and women in serious relationships, marriage, in which the man is sometimes in the 20s and 30s and the woman is only 14, 15,16, 17 years old. And invariably I find that the young woman’s parents support the relationship. And you (anyone, not you) should not be under the impression that these are cases in which the young woman is using the older man. Of course that does happen but, I see that more when the man is in late 40s, 50s and 60s and dating a young woman. But for the most part, a 20 something or 30 something (abroad, not th in the USA these days) man dating a 15,16,17 year old girl is a mutual thing, they both love each other, or in other cases both enjoy each other for sex.

    I once dated an underage women. She was 14 and I was 24.

    I know that I often talk of love and sexual relationship and what I would do at that moment. However, I love my wife and I don’t sleep around these day. Most of comments should be taken as if I weren’t married I would….

    I don’t condone adult sleeping with children though. Americans have a strange habit of allowing Uncle Sam to set the par for what is morally wrong and right. What if next year the legal age was 19 instead of 18? Would there, literally overnight, be a new group of sick and perverted sexual miscreants just because the 25 year old guy/gal was sexual active with an 18 year old?

    As far as prison goes, most white prisoners are really against pedophile stuff. I was once asked if I would help participate in the beating of a ped. I said, hell no, I’m not going to f–k my time up (stay longer in prison) just to beat up a ped. I’ve also noticed that most of the prisoners that are really vocal about their disgust about peds are the prisoners that have the very lowest education levels.

    Again, I dont support adults having sex with children. But 16 aint a child, and especially not abroad outside of the white people western world (American and Western Europe).

    Thank you again for your comments G. Always a pleasure to read your levelheaded thoughts and suggestions.

    Good night.

  185. avatar
    AnotherBird July 25, 2011 at 3:14 am #

    Lucas D. Smith:
    TO EVERYONE:

    I have now published a new 07.25.2011 blog report!

    ‘Doctor Merry/Mary Othigo and two hospitals in Mombasa, Kenya: Aga Khan Hospital and Coast Province General Hospital.‘

    Did you even thing for a moment that the names are actually misspellings? You could call her to determine the correct spelling of her name. Reports do do that all the time. Or, you could write her.

  186. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 25, 2011 at 3:21 am #

    AnotherBird: Did you even thing for a moment that the names are actually misspellings? You could call her to determine the correct spelling of her name. Reports do do that all the time. Or, you could write her.

    Of course. And I point out in my blog report that they could very certainly be misspellings. That’s the point though, they could both be misspelled. And it doesn’t mean that those misspellings make a document ‘fake’.

    And yes, we (all of us) can find misspellings of our names everwhere, including mail and newpapers. The point that is made in the blog is that Othigo and Maganga have had the exact same thing happen to each of them. Each at a hospital. This isn’t a simple straw man argument.

    Furthermore, I’m very confident that it wasn’t Dr Maganga that signed the name above the stamp (which may or may not be misspelled).

    Good night.

  187. avatar
    AnotherBird July 25, 2011 at 3:23 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: However, people like Bob Ross’ here and many other people in the USA, have been brainwashed into believing that there is something evil or immoral about a man over the age of 18 having a sexual relationship with a woman of age 16.

    The issue isn’t being brainwashed. The issue is something call “Age of consent.” Even though the term isn’t written in statues it is a legal reality.

  188. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 25, 2011 at 3:31 am #

    AnotherBird: The issue isn’t being brainwashed. The issue is something call “Age of consent.” Even though the term isn’t written in statues it is a legal reality.

    And did your God come up with magical age of 18 for Age of consent? Or was it Uncle Sam? If not either, who was it? It certainly wasn’t you if you aren’t making the decision yourself.

    I know Americans who actually believe that they are violating a moral law when they don’t buckle-up in the car. (put seatbelt on).

    I remember in the beginning when my wife would get upset with me when I would buckle-up in her car in the Dominican Republic. She’d say something like, “you think I don’t know how to drive!”. My mother-in-law was even upset with me over it, many times.

    Trust me, Americans are brainwashed.

  189. avatar
    AnotherBird July 25, 2011 at 3:37 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: Of course.And I point out in my blog report that they could very certainly be misspellings.That’s the point though, they could both be misspelled.And it doesn’t mean that those misspellings make a document fake’.

    And yes, we (all of us) can find misspellings of our names everwhere, including mail and newpapers.The point that is made in the blog is that Othigo and Maganga have had the exact same thing happen to each of them.Each at a hospital. This isn’t a simple straw man argument.

    Furthermore, I’m very confident that it wasn’t Dr Maganga that signed the name above the stamp (which may or may not be misspelled).

    Good night.

    There is actual an importance in the correct spelling on official documents. However, with any official document you need someone to verify its validity. A point you keep on skipping over.

    Obama released two birth certificate. Had letters by someone who actually verified the existence of his birth records. You have a piece of paper, which no one is will to stand by its authenticity.

    So, I think focus should be is finding someone to stand behind your document. At $5,000 US I would be frantically searching for someone to support my document. Even flying that person to America, and placing them in a hotel which would have been cheaper that $5,000.

  190. avatar
    AnotherBird July 25, 2011 at 3:41 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: And did your God come up with magical age of 18 for Age of consent? Or was it Uncle Sam? If not either, who was it? It certainly wasn’t you if you aren’t making the decision yourself.

    I know Americans who actually believe that they are violating a moral law when they don’t buckle-up in the car.(put seatbelt on).

    I remember in the beginning when my wife would get upset with me when I would buckle-up in her car in the Dominican Republic.She’d say something like, “you think I don’t know how to drive!”.My mother-in-law was even upset with me over it, many times.

    Trust me, Americans are brainwashed.

    Trust me God isn’t going to magic whisk you out of prison.

  191. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 25, 2011 at 4:10 am #

    AnotherBird: So, I think focus should be is finding someone to stand behind your document. At $5,000 US I would be frantically searching for someone to support my document. Even flying that person to America, and placing them in a hotel which would have been cheaper that $5,000.

    Do you think that I have been sitting on my butt for the last 2.5 years?

    I note also that lots of people here on this blog, I think you included, aren’t aware of many, I mean MANY, details that have been disclosed and roundly discussed and debated in the past. The fact that many people are just finding out tonight, for the first time, the detail that I paid $5,000 to the hospital (also two small bribes to other two other people) speaks volumes on just how much research anyone here does before blabbing away recklessly.

    The detail about $5,000 has been out, disclosed to the public in 2009. It’s even included in letters to every Congressman/woman.

    I haven’t had the birth document in my possession of nearly one entire year now. Its currently with my attorney.

    I’ve talked and meet with many attorneys, government officials and experts in many fields.

    The list goes on and on I but really and truly I’m through repeating things hundreds of time for people that don’t take the time to check into things before rambling on with reckless accusations.

    For a truncated list of individuals that have handled the birth document, a couple of the names have held it in possession of months at a time, see the following:

    http://www.wasobamaborninkenya.com/blog/barrack-obama-eligibility/operation-fish-bucket/

  192. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith July 25, 2011 at 4:19 am #

    AnotherBird: Trust me God isn’t going to magic whisk you out of prison.

    Yeah, I know. Sort of like how at one time it was illegal in many states for blacks and whites to marry each other. You could even got jail for it. God wouldn’t get you out of jail for that either. But is doesn’t change that fact that there was nothing morally wrong with a black and white person marrying. But that doesn’t appear to be very important to you. Just staying out of jail/prison is what is important to you, right?

    A few hundred years ago you probably would give the same advice to whites that helped slaves escape and helped harbor escaped slaves. Once again, it was the law and all. Got to follow the laws. You cant just help a poor black slave now can you? Them theres the laws, and you dont wanne be getting sent off to prison or hanged for helping a black slave, do you? Because God aint gonna get you out of prison for that, is he?

    I’m done talking with you. You, like most people that hand out on these blogs have a serious ‘contrarian’ issues. You’ll debate until the death, no matter how wrong you are.

    Peace.

  193. avatar
    AnotherBird July 25, 2011 at 4:55 am #

    Lucas D. Smith:Yeah, I know. Sort of like how at one time it was illegal in many states for blacks and whites to marry each other. You could even got jail for it. God wouldn’t get you out of jail for that either. But is doesn’t change that fact that there was nothing morally wrong with a black and white person marrying. But that doesn’t appear to be very important to you. Just staying out of jail/prison is what is important to you, right?

    A few hundred years ago you probably would give the same advice to whites that helped slaves escape and helped harbor escaped slaves. Once again, it was the law and all. Got to follow the laws. You cant just help a poor black slave now can you? Them theres the laws, and you dont wanne be getting sent off to prison or hanged for helping a black slave, do you? Because God aint gonna get you out of prison for that, is he?

    I’m done talking with you. You, like most people that hand out on these blogs have a serious contrarian’ issues. You’ll debate until the death, no matter how wrong you are.

    Peace.

    There is absolutely no comparisons. A few years a persons age. If you were using that argument to support same sex marriage. I would have to concede that point. It is kind of strange that you want to compare slavery to have sex with a 16 year old girl. Your not going to get hanged for have sex with a girl under the age of consent. There were better examples that you could put forward.

  194. avatar
    Judge Mental July 25, 2011 at 5:03 am #

    In the context of discussions like this most people would think of the discovery of one or more confirmed genuine 1961 CPGH souvenir birth certificates for persons other than Obama as useful control elements of any objective research. That is the focus of how most posters appear to perceive such a prospect and this is reflected in the manner in which they have have generally referred to them.

    It prompted a wry and cynical chuckle to observe that on the other hand Mr Smith instead instinctively chose the terminology of referring to such a document as a “template”, which it is reasonable to assume is exactly what such a document would represent to any petty criminal forger looking to cash in on the opportunity presented by the existence of the gullible birther market, especially a geographically challenged liar who confuses his forging ambitions with his forging abilities. Sometimes our words betray our subconscious.

  195. avatar
    AnotherBird July 25, 2011 at 5:13 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: Do you think that I have been sitting on my butt for the last 2.5 years?

    I note also that lots of people here on this blog, I think you included, aren’t aware of many, I mean MANY, details that have been disclosed and roundly discussed and debated in the past.The fact that many people are just finding out tonight, for the first time, the detail that I paid $5,000 to the hospital (also two small bribes to other two other people) speaks volumes on just how much research anyone here does before blabbing away recklessly.

    The detail about $5,000 has been out, disclosed to the public in 2009.It’s even included in letters to every Congressman/woman.

    I haven’t had the birth document in my possession of nearly one entire year now.Its currently with my attorney.

    I’ve talked and meet with many attorneys, government officials and experts in many fields.

    The list goes on and on I but really and truly I’m through repeating things hundreds of time for people that don’t take the time to check into things before rambling on with reckless accusations.

    For a truncated list of individuals that have handled the birth document, a couple of the names have held it in possession of months at a time, see the following:

    Many people were aware on your claims when you first made your claims. However, none believed you nor the amount that you claimed to pay. So, they can be forgiven for forgetting the exact amount. I for one thought it was about $2,000.

    I am sorry to say. You wouldn’t be still going at this after 2.5 years if one person was able to authenticate the document. I have visited your website, watched your videos, and even read your comments. So, there is no doubt that you have put in effort to prove your position. However, no one has taken your document seriously as being authentic. Why would that be the case?

    I think you should spend more time address that question.

  196. avatar
    Majority Will July 25, 2011 at 8:37 am #

    Expelliarmus: Because he is a clumsy forger, he is embarrassed by the obvious blunders that are pointed out — the misspelling of Heltan Maganga’s name, the fact that Maganga was not yet in the position of hospital administrator as of the date reflected on the phony certificate, the use of the American date format. Those are not only errors, they are really stupid errors — mistakes than anyone who is halfway competent would not have made. So Lucas feels compelled to debate those points.

    Combine that with greed and a lack of conscience and you have someone who will inevitably wind up in prison.

    This is someone who doesn’t think the rules or laws apply to him and are therefore optional.

    Interesting breakdowns of his blatant lies and contradictions:
    http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2289

  197. avatar
    Sef July 25, 2011 at 11:07 am #

    Mrs. Smith, can Lucas come out and play?

  198. avatar
    Majority Will July 25, 2011 at 11:14 am #

    “You, like most people that hand out on these blogs have a serious contrarian’ issues.”

    He misspelled moral compass.

  199. avatar
    G July 25, 2011 at 11:48 am #

    Hi Lucas,

    I do understand what you are trying to say in your post, as over history and across the world, the mores for marraige, sex and age of consent have varied. Most of us on this board either live in America or other modern “western” nations. Although the age of consent laws still even vary between the different US states, 18 has emerged over time as the consensus age that “adulthood” begins here. I say begin, because certain items are restricted further, as you know, such as drinking pushed to age 21. Heck, certain hotels and car rental businesses even require someone to be 25! (ridiculous, I know).

    Age of consent comes about for a reason – the emotions and hormones around sex make it hard for younger/less mature people to really understand what they are getting themselves into and for older people to take advantage of them. It is meant as a protection for the benefit of the younger person. You may not agree with those laws, once they are on the books, they are the law. Most rational people, even when disagreeing with a certain law threshold would understand that there are consequences to violating the law and that it is simply not worth harming your own life to violate such laws.

    For example, there are lots of variations in the speed limit, depending on what state, type of road and area you are in. I’ve never been a fan of speed limits, but I know full well and accept the consequences that if a cop catches me speeding, I’ve brought that ticket and fine upon myself and have no one else to blame. Anyways, as you alluded to, these things also vary by culture and area. In the US, culturally, we have also become bigger proponents of seatbelt laws. Like you, I put mine on all the time and quite frankly, I feel safer and more comfortable in a car when I have it on. The laws developed first and then the culture slowly over time adopted it…but I’d call it a transition of cultural acceptance and not brainwashing. These laws aren’t draconian – they emerged because the US was always one of the leading nations for proportion of the population that drives and therefore we had more cars/congestion on the road at a time and started experiencing increases of accidents as a result. Various efforts arose off of those bad experiences to improve safety and reduce the seriousness of injury in accidents. Seatbelts are one of the best examples that emerged as a successful solution in that arena. The early seatbelts were not that great (just lap belts), so many people didn’t like or resisted the early seatbelt laws that started emerging. However, as the technology has improved and the statistical results really confirmed the benefits, many people have come to really appreciate both the seatbelts and the seatbelt laws. We truly are a nation of drivers here, probably more than any other nation in the world. What we have learned and implemented over time as a modern nation primarily depended on road vehicles for transportation for several generations now has become a sensible and understandable part of our culture. Less developed nations without that experience and dependency on automotive transportation do not have that same cultural experience and perspective and therefore may not appreciate the value of these safety measures and laws like we do. I hope that analogy helps.

    To return to the issue of age of consent and your commentary on that, I just want to touch on a few more points. First of all, yes, of course it is hard not to notice a beautiful woman and yes some girls mature and look like fully developed women in their late teens. Just because you notice something doesn’t mean that you should entertain crossing certain lines or acting on your impulses. There are many reasons for restraint, besides just official age of consent laws.

    For one, significant age gaps are an issue and factor for many. Yes, there are people out there who are older and have an obsession with younger girls. Many would view that as just sad…like they are just trying to recapture some part of their lost youth and can’t get a woman in their own age range. Generational experiences are a reality and in many cases, it truly is harder to relate and have longer term relationships with people who lack having common generational reference points to pull from. Not for everyone of course, but in general, yes. Also, there becomes a point for many of us where you notice someone who is attractive and the very fact that they look “young” can actually become a turnoff, because you realize that you are probably old enough to be their parent! For many of us, the very thought of that is a sobering buzzkill and huge turnoff.

    Finally, if you already are married or even just in a relationship, it is emotionally unfair to the other person you are with to be excessively paying attention to other attractive people, when you should be focusing your attention on respecting the person in your life. Yes, it is natural to still notice, but if you can’t help yourself from staring or talking about it…then you are lacking the emotional control to be in a mature, respectful and equal relationship.

    Lucas D. Smith: Hi G,You are correct, most of us are able to control our impulses and attractions and not act out on them inappropriately.However, people like Bob Ross’ here and many other people in the USA, have been brainwashed into believing that there is something evil or immoral about a man over the age of 18 having a sexual relationship with a woman of age 16.Furthermore, I’m very certain that people such as Bob Ross’ is also attracted to women under the age of 18. If not, I’m then very certain that he is very, very much a homosexual. And I don’t say that as pun or as a jab at him or anyone else.Most American men will put up facade that oh, no way, no way would they look upon a woman that is under the age of 18 in a sexual way. Yet on the inside they feel exactly the opposite.Abroad I’ve encountered all sort men and women in serious relationships, marriage, in which the man is sometimes in the 20s and 30s and the woman is only 14, 15,16, 17 years old. And invariably I find that the young woman’s parents support the relationship. And you (anyone, not you) should not be under the impression that these are cases in which the young woman is using the older man. Of course that does happen but, I see that more when the man is in late 40s, 50s and 60s and dating a young woman. But for the most part, a 20 something or 30 something (abroad, not th in the USA these days) man dating a 15,16,17 year old girl is a mutual thing, they both love each other, or in other cases both enjoy each other for sex.I once dated an underage women. She was 14 and I was 24.I know that I often talk of love and sexual relationship and what I would do at that moment. However, I love my wife and I don’t sleep around these day. Most of comments should be taken as if I weren’t married I would….I don’t condone adult sleeping with children though. Americans have a strange habit of allowing Uncle Sam to set the par for what is morally wrong and right. What if next year the legal age was 19 instead of 18? Would there, literally overnight, be a new group of sick and perverted sexual miscreants just because the 25 year old guy/gal was sexual active with an 18 year old?As far as prison goes, most white prisoners are really against pedophile stuff. I was once asked if I would help participate in the beating of a ped. I said, hell no, I’m not going to f–k my time up (stay longer in prison) just to beat up a ped. I’ve also noticed that most of the prisoners that are really vocal about their disgust about peds are the prisoners that have the very lowest education levels.Again, I dont support adults having sex with children. But 16 aint a child, and especially not abroad outside of the white people western world (American and Western Europe).Thank you again for your comments G. Always a pleasure to read your levelheaded thoughts and suggestions.Good night.

  200. avatar
    JoZeppy July 25, 2011 at 11:49 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: Yes, of course, what was I thinking? Why should I try to authenticate the document myself? That would just be preposterous wouldn’t it? NOT.

    Because you’re a convicted forger. Your attempts to authenticate a document that you tried to peddle on ebay are pretty much meanless.

    Lucas D. Smith: I should just offer the document as authentic, based on nothing whatsoever, and not actual research???

    And all of your protestations and B.S. claims pretty much amount to nothing whatsoever, so what’s the difference? Here’s an idea, how about having someone actually qualified look at it? Nah, that wouldn’t work, because they’d laugh their butts off once they took a look at it.

  201. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 25, 2011 at 12:54 pm #

    Just for my information, is there any faction that supports the birth certificate you say comes from Kenya? I know that WorldNetDaily doesn’t, and I gather that the Post & Email crowd doesn’t either.

    Lucas D. Smith: I note also that lots of people here on this blog, I think you included, aren’t aware of many, I mean MANY, details that have been disclosed and roundly discussed and debated in the past

  202. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 25, 2011 at 12:58 pm #

    The detail is that you claimed to have paid $5,000, not that you paid $5,000.

    Lucas D. Smith: The fact that many people are just finding out tonight, for the first time, the detail that I paid $5,000 to the hospital

  203. avatar
    Majority Will July 25, 2011 at 12:58 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Just for my information, is there any faction that supports the birth certificate you say comes from Kenya? I know that WorldNetDaily doesn’t, and I gather that the Post & Email crowd doesn’t either.

    Would bsdteadman plus Lucas be considered the supporting faction?

  204. avatar
    Scientist July 25, 2011 at 1:06 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Yeah, I know. Sort of like how at one time it was illegal in many states for blacks and whites to marry each other. You could even got jail for it. God wouldn’t get you out of jail for that either. But is doesn’t change that fact that there was nothing morally wrong with a black and white person marrying. But that doesn’t appear to be very important to you. Just staying out of jail/prison is what is important to you, right?
    A few hundred years ago you probably would give the same advice to whites that helped slaves escape and helped harbor escaped slaves. Once again, it was the law and all. Got to follow the laws. You cant just help a poor black slave now can you? Them theres the laws, and you dont wanne be getting sent off to prison or hanged for helping a black slave, do you? Because God aint gonna get you out of prison for that, is he?

    OK, so let’s accept the premise that laws are meaningless or can be violated by anyone claiming a higher purpose or that said laws are unjust. Fine. Then what earthly difference does it make where the President was born? His supposed “ineligibility” if born abroad is at the most a legal technicality and is in fact a complete non-issue in moral and ethical terms. He is the same good or bad President (according to each person’s opinion) whether born in Honolulu or Mombasa. Having run for and been elected President, Barack Obama is 100% entitled to hold office and anyone who would question that on a legal technicality related to something like his place of birth, whiich he had no say in anyway, is a fool and a hypocrite.

  205. avatar
    JoZeppy July 25, 2011 at 1:28 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: However, people like Bob Ross’ here and many other people in the USA, have been brainwashed into believing that there is something evil or immoral about a man over the age of 18 having a sexual relationship with a woman of age 16.

    This has become an all too convenient excuse for you Mr. Smith. You’ve used it for everything from name spellings, birth dates, date formats, lack of proof of your travels, and now as an excuse for pedophilia. It’s getting very tired and old. While anyone who has done the remotest amount of traveling recognizes there are differences around the world, the use of those differences as an excuse for absolutely everything is very unconvincing and rather pathetic.

    Lucas D. Smith: Furthermore, I’m very certain that people such as Bob Ross’ is also attracted to women under the age of 18. If not, I’m then very certain that he is very, very much a homosexual. And I don’t say that as pun or as a jab at him or anyone else.
    Most American men will put up facade that oh, no way, no way would they look upon a woman that is under the age of 18 in a sexual way. Yet on the inside they feel exactly the opposite.

    Can a man find an underage woman attractive, and even sexually arousing….yes. Some girls develop faster than others, and the differences between 16 and 18 might be fuzzy physically. Below that, I contend that you can’t mistake the fact that you are looking at a child, and I for one, am not attracted to children. However, the responsible adult also realizes that a 16 year old child is under no circumstances going to be emotionally equipped to be involved in a sexual relationship with someone in their 20s. It is a question of being on unequal standing emotionally and mentally. The inequality leads to abuse and manipulation (which is the reason why we have laws in place to punish it).

    Lucas D. Smith: Abroad I’ve encountered all sort men and women in serious relationships, marriage, in which the man is sometimes in the 20s and 30s and the woman is only 14, 15,16, 17 years old. And invariably I find that the young woman’s parents support the relationship. And you (anyone, not you) should not be under the impression that these are cases in which the young woman is using the older man. Of course that does happen but, I see that more when the man is in late 40s, 50s and 60s and dating a young woman. But for the most part, a 20 something or 30 something (abroad, not th in the USA these days) man dating a 15,16,17 year old girl is a mutual thing, they both love each other, or in other cases both enjoy each other for sex.

    And let me guess, most of these are parts of the world were women are treated as chattel to be disposed of by the family as quickly as possible so they aren’t a drain on the parents resouces (and if something can be gained in return, all the better). So yes, there are parts of the world where dumping daughters off quickly is considered a good thing. And I hate to break it to you, 15/16 year old, is just not emotionally developed to be on equal terms with an adult. They are relationships prone to manipulation by the adult. Your pedophile excuses remain unconvincing.

    Lucas D. Smith: I once dated an underage women. She was 14 and I was 24.

    Which is why I shall continue to refer to you as an admitted childmolester/pedophile. 14 is a child. No way around that one.

    Lucas D. Smith: I don’t condone adult sleeping with children though.

    And yet you did.

    Lucas D. Smith: Americans have a strange habit of allowing Uncle Sam to set the par for what is morally wrong and right

    And back to the “blame the brain washed Americans” schtick. Perhaps it’s because we Americans as a society don’t believe adults should be sexually abusing our children, and as a society we told our representatives to pass laws punishing pedophiles and child molesters like yourself, rather than the government setting the bar for what is right an wrong. As I said before Mr. Smith, your attempts to use the “poor brainwashed Americans” as an excuse for everything is rather unconvincing. You’re not dealing with uneduated rubes here who have no experience with the outside world.

    Lucas D. Smith: What if next year the legal age was 19 instead of 18? Would there, literally overnight, be a new group of sick and perverted sexual miscreants just because the 25 year old guy/gal was sexual active with an 18 year old?

    This is an over simplification of the issue that doesn’t even merit discussion. The greater issue is not the 19 and 25 year old, or even the 14 and 15 year old. It is the 25 year old and the 14 year old and the inherent inequality invovled. I see no need to go into a state by state analysis of statutory rape laws.

    Lucas D. Smith: As far as prison goes, most white prisoners are really against pedophile stuff. I was once asked if I would help participate in the beating of a ped. I said, hell no, I’m not going to f–k my time up (stay longer in prison) just to beat up a ped. I’ve also noticed that most of the prisoners that are really vocal about their disgust about peds are the prisoners that have the very lowest education levels.

    I’ve found that people who are most vocal about thier disgust about homosexuality are closested gays. Perhaps your uneducated prisoners are just closest pedophiles…who knows, and I really don’t care one way or the other.

    Lucas D. Smith: Again, I dont support adults having sex with children.

    And yet you did.

    Lucas D. Smith: But 16 aint a child, and especially not abroad outside of the white people western world (American and Western Europe).

    Spoken like a true pedophile, Mr. Smith. 16 and certainly 14 is a child everywhere in the world. At that age, they just aren’t mentally and emotionally equipped to deal on equal terms with an actual adult. The fact that there are large portions of the world where the treatement of women at any age is always to be subordinated to a man doesn’t erase that there are further issues when you introduce lack of maturity to the equation.

    The problem isn’t that we poor westerners just don’t understand the rest of the world with all our silly notions of dates, and date forms, spelling, and borders, and ages and maturity. The problem is that you attempt to use cultural difference as you your weak a$$ excuse for everything.

    And you wonder why no one takes your POSFAKBC seriously?

  206. avatar
    Bovril July 25, 2011 at 1:52 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Just for my information, is there any faction that supports the birth certificate you say comes from Kenya? I know that WorldNetDaily doesn’t, and I gather that the Post & Email crowd doesn’t either.

    Even Dr K(H)ates delusional mob of dysfunctional seditionists think the POSFKBC is a POS as did Phil Berg and I BELIEVE Mario the Putz when he was flailing pathetically at CAAFLOG.

  207. avatar
    Judge Mental July 25, 2011 at 2:37 pm #

    I’m not in the habit of supporting Lucas Smith, but once objective always objective. Facts are facts and there often seems to be a general misconception in much of USA as regards the facts about the age of sexual consent in Western developed countries.

    In many Western countries, including the USA’s oldest ally UK and other European nations 16 is indeed that age of consent. In some the relevant age is even younger.

    If anything USA is more the exception than the rule in that respect.

  208. avatar
    sfjeff July 25, 2011 at 2:49 pm #

    A couple of things about Lucas.

    I am surprised, considering his legal problems, that no U.S. official has looked into whether he has violated the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act?

    He has openly admitted paying off hospital officials- and I believe government officials- in a foreign country, to release documents illegally, for the purpose of financial gain.

    Of course if he never did that, he wouldn’t be in violation. But since he did, wouldn’t the astute parole officer want to inquire or pass it onto the DOJ for investigation?

    And Lucas should welcome his sacrifice- if he was convicted for the crime, he would be going to jail for revealing the truth.

    As a side note- a 24 year old man dating a 14 year old teenager(or any sex) in the United States say a lot about the 24 year old man. I may notice a lovely 14 year old girl, after all curves are curves, but there are several reasons that I when I was a 24 year old would not at all consider dating one- and the legal issue would be just one of them.

    Seriously, as an adult, I learned to curb my interest in even ogling under age girls- it is inappropriate, and as someone in his 50’s, there is far too much of a chance that one of those underage girls would be the daughter(or even granddaughter) of someone I know- and all to soon, could be a friend of my daughters. Ick.

  209. avatar
    Thrifty July 25, 2011 at 3:05 pm #

    JoZeppy: Can a man find an underage woman attractive, and even sexually arousing….yes. Some girls develop faster than others, and the differences between 16 and 18 might be fuzzy physically. Below that, I contend that you can’t mistake the fact that you are looking at a child, and I for one, am not attracted to children.

    Once, during a discussion of Twilight: New Moon, someone asked if it was okay for a grown man to find the teenage Dakota Fanning attractive. I said “Yes, as long as you don’t have some sort of clock counting down the days to her 18th birthday.”

    JoZeppy: However, the responsible adult also realizes that a 16 year old child is under no circumstances going to be emotionally equipped to be involved in a sexual relationship with someone in their 20s. It is a question of being on unequal standing emotionally and mentally. The inequality leads to abuse and manipulation (which is the reason why we have laws in place to punish it).

    Playing devil’s advocate here for a second; you contend that the physical differences between 16 and 18. Are the emotional and mental difference really that great either? I’m not trying to justify sexual relationships with teenagers the way Lucas is; I’m just wondering the question philosophically. To my mind, you never really make the mental leap from child to adult until after a series of ordeals and extra responsibilities which overwhelm you but when you survive you come out wiser and an adult.

  210. avatar
    JoZeppy July 25, 2011 at 3:10 pm #

    Judge Mental: I’m not in the habit of supporting Lucas Smith, but once objective always objective. Facts are facts and there often seems to be a general misconception in much of USA as regards the facts about the age of sexual consent in Western developed countries.In many Western countries, including the USA’s oldest ally UK and other European nations 16 is indeed that age of consent. In some the relevant age is even younger.If anything USA is more the exception than the rule in that respect.

    Actually, even in the US, there are plenty of states that set the age at 16. And in Europe, there are even a few that set the age lower. However, just the focus on age ingnores other statutes that tinker with the age as well. There are other statutes that contemplate “abuse of power” so that if you are in the remotest in the slightest way in a position of authority, the age goes up. There are other seduction laws, that play with the age if you use the minor’s lack of age an experience to coerce contact, close age exceptions, etc. However, doesn’t this all go to what Mr. Smith objects to? Letting the big bad governments set morality and an arbitrary date?

    And of course, in my book, it comes down to the fact that the science that an adolecent is not fully mature emotionally, and the inherent leverage and influence the older partner has, still leads me to say that if you’re 24 years old, and hitting on what would be a freshman in high school….you’ve got some serious issues.

  211. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 25, 2011 at 3:16 pm #

    Thrifty: Once, during a discussion of Twilight: New Moon, someone asked if it was okay for a grown man to find the teenage Dakota Fanning attractive. I said “Yes, as long as you don’t have some sort of clock counting down the days to her 18th birthday.”

    Thrifty I need to stop you right there…. Why were you discussing Twilight?

  212. avatar
    Scientist July 25, 2011 at 3:20 pm #

    Thrifty: Playing devil’s advocate here for a second; you contend that the physical differences between 16 and 18. Are the emotional and mental difference really that great either?

    Obviously there are individual differences. We can all (I hope) agree that 5 year olds are not ready for sexual relations (or would Lucas dissent)? When it comes to 16 year olds, some might be and many are not. The same might well be true of other adult rights/privileges, like voting or signing contracts. However, I don’t know how you would go about writing laws that say, “The age of majority is X, but it could be younger in some cases and older in others”. So, for legal purposes, there has to a bright line.

    By the way, the idea that there is a divide between children and adults is not unique to Western culture. Most human cultures recognize it and have ceremoniies of passage from childhood to adulthood, though the age differs from culture to culture. The Bar Miitzvah boy traditionally says, “Today i am a man”, though he often says it with a voice breaking from puberty. There are also a whole bunch of internatiional conventions and treaties on child protection and sex traffiing, conventions which just about every country in the world has agreed to and is required to enforce.

  213. avatar
    JoZeppy July 25, 2011 at 3:45 pm #

    Thrifty: Playing devil’s advocate here for a second; you contend that the physical differences between 16 and 18. Are the emotional and mental difference really that great either?

    Scientific studies have shown that a person does not reach mental maturity until the early 20s. This includes the facilities that govern impulsivity, judgment, and foresight of consequences. Then there is the general emotional side of things that is also in development (and throw in a case of a rush of developmental hormones to boot). During adolecence the body (including the brain) is at one of it’s fastest periods of development, so yes, the difference between 16 and 18 can be quite great. Change that 16 to a 14, and you have even a wider difference. This isn’t a difference of cultures as Mr. Smith would like to imply, this is a difference of physical, mental, and emotional development. And the kicker is, the body actually develops faster than the mental and emotional.

    Thrifty: I’m just wondering the question philosophically. To my mind, you never really make the mental leap from child to adult until after a series of ordeals and extra responsibilities which overwhelm you but when you survive you come out wiser and an adult.

    I’m willing to set aside philosphy in the discussion, and just defer to science. We can all quibble about what experiences make you geniuinely an adult (afterall, some people can avoid those experiences for a lifetime). However, there is a good deal of science about what point your brain develops so that you are capable to make decisions as an adult.

  214. avatar
    Thrifty July 25, 2011 at 4:45 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Thrifty I need to stop you right there…. Why were you discussing Twilight?

    I was trying to learn how to seduce 14 year old girls, so I could be a more enlightened and worldly man like Lucas.

    Seriously though, it was on the forum for Rifftrax, which is Mystery Science Theater 3000 style commentary on more contemporary movies. They had just released one for Twilight.

  215. avatar
    Judge Mental July 25, 2011 at 5:13 pm #

    JoZeppy: Actually, even in the US, there are plenty of states that set the age at 16. And in Europe, there are even a few that set the age lower. However, just the focus on age ingnores other statutes that tinker with the age as well. There are other statutes that contemplate “abuse of power” so that if you are in the remotest in the slightest way in a position of authority, the age goes up. There are other seduction laws, that play with the age if you use the minor’s lack of age an experience to coerce contact, close age exceptions, etc. However, doesn’t this all go to what Mr. Smith objects to? Letting the big bad governments set morality and an arbitrary date?And of course, in my book, it comes down to the fact that the science that an adolecent is not fully mature emotionally, and the inherent leverage and influence the older partner has, still leads me to say that if you’re 24 years old, and hitting on what would be a freshman in high school….you’ve got some serious issues.

    No problem Jo, I understand what you are saying. I passed no comment or opinion on what is “right”, I only opined that anyone on here who thinks that it is against the law for an adult to have sex with a 16 year old in most Western developed countries would be under a misapprehension.

    Some on here seemed think that 18 is the standard routine age in Western developed nations. Quite simply it isn’t. I say again, USA is in a minorty as regards choosing an age as high as 18 and in that sense only and against that background Lucas Smith may for once have a point.

  216. avatar
    JoZeppy July 25, 2011 at 5:40 pm #

    Judge Mental: No problem Jo, I understand what you are saying. I passed no comment or opinion on what is “right”, I only opined that anyone on here who thinks that it is against the law for an adult to have sex with a 16 year old in most Western developed countries would be under a misapprehension.

    I would point out, that even in the states in the US where 16 is the age of consent, how often do you hear adult men bragging about sleeping with a 16 year old? Even despite the legality of it, it is still socially unacceptable to be bedding down with adolecents. And while I have family in European countries where the legal age is as low as 14, we’ve never had a discussion about the merits of sleeping with a 14 year old. I can’t make a judgment on broader European attitudes towards this behavior, but I would be surprised if it’s any different. Europeans are more open towards sexuality than Americans, but at least in my experience, social acceptance of the behavior is not embraced.

    Judge Mental: Some on here seemed think that 18 is the standard routine age in Western developed nations. Quite simply it isn’t. I say again, USA is in a minorty as regards choosing an age as high as 18 and in that sense only and against that background Lucas Smith may for once have a point.

    I think the distinction needs to be made between legality and social acceptance. I can only speak for the circles I travel in, but even though legal, if a 20 something man was going with a 14 year old, he certainly would elicit stares and a certain “ick” factor.

  217. avatar
    Sef July 25, 2011 at 5:43 pm #

    I don’t think it has been mentioned that there is a Wikipedia page about all this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent Also, does Lucas know about the Protect Act? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sex_tourism#Tourists_from_the_United_States He could be in big big trouble.

  218. avatar
    Critical Thinker July 25, 2011 at 6:48 pm #

    Uh–Doc, isn’t discussion of statutory rape off-topic.

  219. avatar
    AnotherBird July 25, 2011 at 10:54 pm #

    Critical Thinker:
    Uh–Doc, isn’t discussion of statutory rape off-topic.

    Lucas D. Smith is just trying to defend his supposed payment of $5,000 for Obama’s birth certificate in Kenya. That is where it all devolved from. However, it is strange that Lucas seems to have disappeared.

  220. avatar
    G July 25, 2011 at 11:58 pm #

    Well, there was that 51-year old bit actor, Doug Hutchison who just married a 16-year old girl that he met a year ago online…. and yes, every interview with the two of them comes of super creepy and super sleazy… then again, this guy’s acting career is pretty much based on playing creepy/sleazy characters (such as his famous turd villain turn in The Green Mile)…but yeah, everything about it is totally cringe worthy.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/doug-hutchison-courtney-stodden-controversial-marriage-exclusive/story?id=14073130

    JoZeppy: I would point out, that even in the states in the US where 16 is the age of consent, how often do you hear adult men bragging about sleeping with a 16 year old?

  221. avatar
    Expelliarmus July 26, 2011 at 2:31 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: the detail that I paid $5,000 to the hospital (also two small bribes to other two other people) speaks volumes

    Knowing Lucas, if indeed he paid a $5000 bribe, he probably wrote a check.

    Knowing Lucas, the check was drawn on a nonexistent bank account with -0- funds on deposit.

    What was that arrest warrant in Iowa for again?

  222. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny July 26, 2011 at 5:52 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: And if not, I just slip the Kenyan police $7 US dollars and they forget all about Lucas Daniel Smith.

    Oh, you read my joke I see – and loved it so much you’re now alluding to it yourself.

    But of course, I will now have to change the text, because one stupid American was willing to pay 634 shillings.

    Did you pay with Visa at the local border Forex? Because according to serious tourist info, those “parking lot guards” only take shillings and the forex at the inland border (unlike Nairobi or Mombasa) only take Visa, not Eurocard or American Express).

    And why did you add 34 bob? A golden rule in Kenya is to give a tip of at least 10% or to give no tip at all.

  223. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny July 26, 2011 at 6:31 am #

    Expelliarmus: Knowing Lucas, if indeed he paid a $5000 bribe,he probably wrote a check.

    Knowing Lucas, the check was drawn on a nonexistent bank account with -0- funds on deposit.

    What was that arrest warrant in Iowa for again?

    I am sure even the 7 dollars was not actually one bill (what portrait would be on it? Emer de Vattel? Justice Fuller?) but 634 Kenyan shillings which he got at the local forex – from the same account, or with a forged Visa card.

  224. avatar
    ellen July 26, 2011 at 4:44 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith, who claims to have gotten a “Kenyan birth certificate” for Obama in Kenya, has never proven that he (Lucas D. Smith) was ever IN Kenya.

  225. avatar
    Sef July 26, 2011 at 4:54 pm #

    Paul Pieniezny: I am sure even the 7 dollars was not actually one bill (what portrait would be on it? Emer de Vattel? Justice Fuller?) but 634 Kenyan shillings which he got at the local forex – from the same account, or with a forged Visa card.

    He probably gave them a $13 bill and asked for change. They gave him 2 $3 bills from the guy that was just before him.

  226. avatar
    AnotherBird July 26, 2011 at 5:22 pm #

    ellen:
    Lucas D. Smith, who claims to have gotten a “Kenyan birth certificate” for Obama in Kenya, has never proven that he (Lucas D. Smith) was ever IN Kenya.

    In Lucas D. Smith’s world he has to live by a different standard of proof. One thing he has been asked is to provide some proof that he was even in Kenya. All you hear of the symphony of crickets.

  227. avatar
    Northland10 July 26, 2011 at 8:13 pm #

    Expelliarmus: Knowing Lucas, if indeed he paid a $5000 bribe,he probably wrote a check.

    Knowing Lucas, the check was drawn on a nonexistent bank account with -0- funds on deposit.

    What was that arrest warrant in Iowa for again?

    Ouch.