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Phil Berg: Obama is not using a fraudulent SSN

In an email Wednesday (December 7, 2011), crusading anti-Obama attorney Philip J. Berg proves that there are differences among birthers. In a lengthy treatise on social-security numbers, Phil Berg firmly rejects claims that Obama is using a fraudulent SSN and adds:

False information regarding the eligibility of Obama makes the question into the lack of Constitutional eligibility of Obama serving as our President a laughing stock.

Berg is known for bringing the first notable eligibility lawsuit against Barack Obama. That case contains many of the conspiracy theories and rumors related to claims that Obama was born in Kenya, and/or lost US citizenship while he resided in Indonesia. Berg contributed considerable false information himself, and served to set up birthers as objects of derision early on.  Berg, however, does not agree with the fraudulent social-security number theories of Orly Taitz, nor does he have any sympathy for the crank legal theory of a “two-citizen-parent” requirement for presidential eligibility propounded by Leo Donofrio and Mario Apuzzo.

It is not readily apparent why someone reject one impossible theory but buy into another one equally outlandish, but it happens. (Birther attorney Gary Kreep also rejects the “two-citizen” theory, and Leo Donofrio rejects a Kenyan birth.)

You can read Berg’s press release on the ObamaCrimes web site. The article contains some correct information on SSNs and then follows with arguments in favor of other crank claims, perhaps material for future articles here.

132 Responses to Phil Berg: Obama is not using a fraudulent SSN

  1. avatar
    Joey December 9, 2011 at 4:25 pm #

    “Berg has sold out because he’s a Democrat “charges begin in one….two….three………

  2. avatar
    Observer December 9, 2011 at 4:27 pm #

    Yet another birther circular firing squad.

  3. avatar
    Chris December 9, 2011 at 5:22 pm #

    Berg’s point about all these SSNs for Hawaii residents being issued out of Connecticut is new, as far as I know, For those more knowledgeable, please correct me if I am wrong. It’s not only new but rather interesting, because it effectively debunks the idea of any strict identity of state of residence and issuing office for SSNs. In theory, this should undermine one of the main birther arguments about Obama’s alleged SSN, but, as we know, that would assume rationality which appears to be in short supply among the birters.

  4. avatar
    The Magic M December 9, 2011 at 6:44 pm #

    > It is not readily apparent why someone reject one impossible theory but buy into another one equally outlandish, but it happens.

    Well, I suppose every birther more or less knows that not all the birther crap can be true at once. So some may pick one particular part of the whole and elevate that to “the only one that will blow the thing wide open” – in the hope of being the sole hero in the end.

    Which is why the “Kenyan birth” birthers, the Vattelists, the “Indonesian adoption” birthers, the “forged BC” birthers and the “fraudulent SSN” birthers all have their preferred part of the ideology. E.g. the Vattelists believe that their theory is the only true one, that one day they’ll be the shining heroes whereas the “Kenyan birth” birthers will end up a total failure.

    It’s an interesting variant of a common theme among cranks: at some point, there’s a schism, and it’s mostly due to the vanity of some leadership figures.
    (Luckily, this holds for politics as well. For example, in Germany, our two strongest right-wing (read: borderline Nazi) parties never managed to work together because both had an egomaniac wannabe Führer as leader, and neither wanted to step back to second rank.)

  5. avatar
    dunstvangeet December 9, 2011 at 8:26 pm #

    Let’s see if Berg approves my post of “The Supreme Court has already rejected your legal theory over 70 years ago. Why do you think that you don’t know that?”

    Gotta love a Supreme Court Case that is directly on point and is binding precedent directly against the exact theory that Philip J. Berg is actually putting out there.

  6. avatar
    Sef December 9, 2011 at 10:31 pm #

    Chris:
    Berg’s point about all these SSNs for Hawaii residents being issued out of Connecticut is new, as far as I know,For those more knowledgeable, please correct me if I am wrong. It’s not only new but rather interesting, because it effectively debunks the idea of any strict identity of state of residence and issuing office for SSNs.In theory, this should undermine one of the main birther arguments about Obama’s alleged SSN, but, as we know, that would assume rationality which appears to be in short supply among the birters.

    Absolutely nothing special about this. Just go to the rootsweb SSDI site and put in HI as last residence and CT for state of issue. It returns 500 hits (it may be query limited). Don’t you think it just might be possible that 500 people, who once lived in CT, moved to paradise and died there?

  7. avatar
    GeorgetownJD December 9, 2011 at 11:14 pm #

    Look who pops up in the comments at Berg’s blog: Cort Wrotnowski. Out of curiosity I went back to his original filing to the Supreme Court, fashioned as APPLICATION FOR EMERGENCY STAY AND/OR INJUNCTION AS TO THE 2008 ELECTORAL COLLEGE MEETING AND ALTERNATIVELY AS TO CONNECTICUT ELECTORS, filed on November 25, 3008.

    Not one mention of the “two-citizen parents” theory. Vattel is not cited. Minor v. Happersett is nowhere to be found in the brief. To his credit, the Dred Scot decision is absent.

    Only a single case is discussed. United States v. Wong Kim Ark, which Wrotnowski describes — actually, he concedes — is “a dissertation on citizenship.”

    We’ve known that the Vattel/two-citizen parent theory is a post-election construct by the birthers and until today I had thought it was first raised in December 2008 by Wrotnowski (whose SCOTUS filings were authored by Leo Donofrio). However, it is clear that Vattel was not mentioned, much less popularized, as a theory until sometime in early 2009.

    If anyone can locate an earlier source for this pseudo-legal theory, I’d be interested.
    .

  8. avatar
    GeorgetownJD December 9, 2011 at 11:16 pm #

    Oops, November 25, 2008. Although I’m sure the birthers will still be peddling their CT well into 3008.

  9. avatar
    G December 9, 2011 at 11:35 pm #

    Yeah, it really comes down to the self-deluded ego of these particular birther “leaders” in defense of their personal pet conspiracies that they cling to…and in Berg’s case, quite a dislike of the particular Birther leaders who’ve peddled the other brands of nonsense, which he is willing to actually approach rationally enough to debunk.

    Of course he is not going to carry water for Orly’s crazy SSN lies. He & Orly can’t stand each other. For similar reasons, he has no reason to drink the kool-aid on the “2 citizen parent” bunkum either.

    That he still clings to such long debunked nonsense as the Indonesian adoption cr@p and the ludicrous born in Kenya…

    …well that just shows how myopic he is in facing reality when it comes to his personal pet smears. His excessive ego short circuits his ability to face the facts on those issues…

    The Magic M: > It is not readily apparent why someone reject one impossible theory but buy into another one equally outlandish, but it happens.Well, I suppose every birther more or less knows that not all the birther crap can be true at once. So some may pick one particular part of the whole and elevate that to “the only one that will blow the thing wide open” – in the hope of being the sole hero in the end.Which is why the “Kenyan birth” birthers, the Vattelists, the “Indonesian adoption” birthers, the “forged BC” birthers and the “fraudulent SSN” birthers all have their preferred part of the ideology. E.g. the Vattelists believe that their theory is the only true one, that one day they’ll be the shining heroes whereas the “Kenyan birth” birthers will end up a total failure.It’s an interesting variant of a common theme among cranks: at some point, there’s a schism, and it’s mostly due to the vanity of some leadership figures.(Luckily, this holds for politics as well. For example, in Germany, our two strongest right-wing (read: borderline Nazi) parties never managed to work together because both had an egomaniac wannabe Führer as leader, and neither wanted to step back to second rank.)

  10. avatar
    KenyanBornObama December 10, 2011 at 12:01 am #

    GeorgetownJD: Oops, November 25, 2008. Although I’m sure the birthers will still be peddling their CT well into 3008.

    YOU BETCHA! But in all honesty, I think the ObamaBallotChallenge.com campaign will take care of that. We got 49 states and DC to have hearings yet and ONE, will do the right thing!

  11. avatar
    KenyanBornObama December 10, 2011 at 12:03 am #

    GeorgetownJD: Look who pops up in the comments at Berg’s blog: Cort Wrotnowski. Out of curiosity I went back to his original filing to the Supreme Court, fashioned as APPLICATION FOR EMERGENCY STAY AND/OR INJUNCTION AS TO THE 2008 ELECTORAL COLLEGE MEETING AND ALTERNATIVELY AS TO CONNECTICUT ELECTORS, filed on November 25, 3008. Not one mention of the “two-citizen parents” theory. Vattel is not cited. Minor v. Happersett is nowhere to be found in the brief. To his credit, the Dred Scot decision is absent.Only a single case is discussed. United States v. Wong Kim Ark, which Wrotnowski describes — actually, he concedes — is “a dissertation on citizenship.”We’ve known that the Vattel/two-citizen parent theory is a post-election construct by the birthers and until today I had thought it was first raised in December 2008 by Wrotnowski (whose SCOTUS filings were authored by Leo Donofrio). However, it is clear that Vattel was not mentioned, much less popularized, as a theory until sometime in early 2009.If anyone can locate an earlier source for this pseudo-legal theory, I’d be interested..

    Long time no see, still making up your lies?
    Remember my video:
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=045_1307642475

  12. avatar
    G December 10, 2011 at 1:51 am #

    LMAO! Yeah, good luck with that! How’s that going for you so far? Hasn’t gone so well for you in NH or GA I see.

    …Seriously, what makes you think you’re going to have any different conclusion in any of the other states?

    KenyanBornObama: YOU BETCHA! But in all honesty, I think the ObamaBallotChallenge.com campaign will take care of that. We got 49 states and DC to have hearings yet and ONE, will do the right thing!

  13. avatar
    Majority Will December 10, 2011 at 2:32 am #

    Any . . . day . . . now.

  14. avatar
    Whatever4 December 10, 2011 at 5:33 am #

    Chris:
    Berg’s point about all these SSNs for Hawaii residents being issued out of Connecticut is new, as far as I know,For those more knowledgeable, please correct me if I am wrong. It’s not only new but rather interesting, because it effectively debunks the idea of any strict identity of state of residence and issuing office for SSNs.In theory, this should undermine one of the main birther arguments about Obama’s alleged SSN, but, as we know, that would assume rationality which appears to be in short supply among the birters.

    My first inclination wen reading something like this is to experiment with the data. If you query about born in NY and died in HI, you get 4,435 records. MA is 1,354. RI is 197. CT is 500. This tells me NOT that CT had some sort of special system about issuing SSNs to folks living in Hawaii, but that people move to Hawaii, esp. to retire. Of the 500 CTers, 445 were 60 and older.

  15. avatar
    Majority Will December 10, 2011 at 9:37 am #

    G: …Seriously, what makes you think you’re going to have any different conclusion in any of the other states?

    Hope and deranged.

  16. avatar
    James M December 10, 2011 at 1:51 pm #

    The Magic M: Well, I suppose every birther more or less knows that not all the birther crap can be true at once.

    I’ve engaged one who seems to be able to accept both that President Obama was born in Kenya and born in Hawaii as a foreigner. He was an infamous USENET troll, though, and I have a feeling that we witnessed his decline into severe alcoholism and his disappearance makes me think he died.

  17. avatar
    Joey December 10, 2011 at 2:18 pm #

    I guarantee with 100% metaphysical certitude that none of the “ballot challenges” to the President will be successful.

    How can I make that claim? Because, unlike birthers, I have actually READ Article IV, Section 1 of the Constitution of the United States.

    The President (and anyone who can read) has apostilles from the state of Hawaii verifying the authenticity of his birth records, from the previous Republican administration of Governor Lingle and from the current Democratic administration of Governor Abercrombie.
    The certified copies of birth records plus the apostilles (letters of verfication) are all that the President will ever need. to overcome a ballot challenge.

    The Constitution guarantees FULL FAITH AND CREDIT to any states’ records.

  18. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 3:50 pm #

    Chris: Berg’s point about all these SSNs for Hawaii residents being issued out of Connecticut is new, as far as I know, For those more knowledgeable, please correct me if I am wrong. It’s not only new but rather interesting, because it effectively debunks the idea of any strict identity of state of residence and issuing office for SSNs. In theory, this should undermine one of the main birther arguments about Obama’s alleged SSN, but, as we know, that would assume rationality which appears to be in short supply among the birters.

    Chris Berg has done only half a research job on those numbers. Just look at the names. Not one is a typical Hawaii name. Since he got those names from the SSA death list it is most reasonable to believe that all those people were people who lived in Connecticutt at one time and moved to Hawaii. Otherwise you would have at least 1/2 those names as native Hawaiian names.

  19. avatar
    Majority Will December 10, 2011 at 4:21 pm #

    jollyroger88805: Chris Berg has done only half a research job on those numbers. Just look at the names. Not one is a typical Hawaii name. Since he got those names from the SSA death list it is most reasonable to believe that all those people were people who lived in Connecticutt at one time and moved to Hawaii. Otherwise you would have at least 1/2 those names as native Hawaiian names.

    Who is Chris Berg?

  20. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 4:37 pm #

    Just as I thought. And all I needed to do was to go to the first male name on the list. Anyone that knows anything about genealogy it is much easier to follow males than females due to name changes. When you plug John Suprano’s name into genealogy on line files you will find he lived the majority of his life in Connecticutt. There are several years worth of city directory listings for him. So he lived in Connecticutt and got his SS# in Connecticutt. But he moved and died in Hawaii. Berg just did a terrible job of research on this.
    You know that ineptocrats and Hussienites will post Berg’s comments all over the internet. A guy they to this point have claimed to be a crack pot. Well I don’t think he is a crack pot. I just think he did a poor job of research this time before he made a claim that Obama was using a valid SS# based on the SSA death list of people with Conn SS#’s who died in Hawaii. He assumed that if they died in Hawaii they were living there when they got their SS# which is totally not true.

  21. avatar
    Scientist December 10, 2011 at 5:03 pm #

    Neither Berg, Orly, you nor I can say why any individual has been assigned a particuar SSN. The people who can are the SSA and the IRS. Since the President has filed taxes under the SSN commonly assumed to be his for many years (beginning long before he was President, or even a Senator), we know that it is legitimately his. Not because I say so or Berg says so, but because the folks who issued it accept it as such. You are of course welcome to file a report with those agencies if you believe that someone is using a fraudulent SSN. Attempts to guess why someone has a particular SSN is like trying to guess why the dollar bill in your pocket has a particular serial #.

  22. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 5:05 pm #

    Majority Will: Who is Chris Berg?

    Chris is the person I responded to. Berg is the person who is using Hawaii SS death records to claim Obama is using a valid SS#. This basis is wrong. The people Berg ID’d are people who lived and got their SS# in Connecticutt. They moved to and died in Hawaii. Very poor research on Berg’s part.
    Now we will be seeing all over the internet ineptocrats and Husseinites claiming Berg is a great debunker of the SS issue. And he is the one they have all called a crack pot up to this point. But just as soon as he puts forth a statement that is not true he becomes their hero. That doesn’t surprise me tho. They cling to a lot of falsehoods.

  23. avatar
    Scientist December 10, 2011 at 5:07 pm #

    Majority Will: Who is Chris Berg?

    Chris de Bergh is a songwriter who has written some pretty good songs.

  24. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 5:47 pm #

    Scientist: Neither Berg, Orly, you nor I can say why any individual has been assigned a particuar SSN. The people who can are the SSA and the IRS. Since the President has filed taxes under the SSN commonly assumed to be his for many years (beginning long before he was President, or even a Senator), we know that it is legitimately his. Not because I say so or Berg says so, but because the folks who issued it accept it as such. You are of course welcome to file a report with those agencies if you believe that someone is using a fraudulent SSN. Attempts to guess why someone has a particular SSN is like trying to guess why the dollar bill in your pocket has a particular serial #.

    Your comment is not on the whole factual and therefor unacceptable.
    First “filed taxes under the SSN commonly assumed to be his for many years (beginning long before he was President, or even a Senator), we know that it is legitimately his.” His uncle has an illegal SS# too that he used for many years. That didn’t make it “legitimately his.” No use of an illegal SS# can make it “legitimate” for anyone. Second, “because the folks who issued it accept it as such”. There is no way to know how Obama got his illegal SS#. What we do know is that the “SSA HAS VERIFIED THE NUMBER 042-68-4425 THE ONE OBAMA IS USING NEVER WAS ISSUED TO HIM.” You are correct Orly, Berg, you, or I can’t say why a SS# IS ISSUED to any particular person but we all can say Obama’s SS# is illegal BECAUSE IT WAS NEVER ISSUED TO HIM BY THE SSA.

  25. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 6:04 pm #

    The Majic M “in Germany, our two strongest right-wing”
    Why should we put any credencce into anything a foreigner says concerning Obama’s legal status here. You need to go talk about your “right-wing” in Germany.

  26. avatar
    sfjeff December 10, 2011 at 6:08 pm #

    jollyroger88805: There is no way to know how Obama got his illegal SS#. What we do know is that the “SSA HAS VERIFIED THE NUMBER 042-68-4425 THE ONE OBAMA IS USING NEVER WAS ISSUED TO HIM.” You are correct Orly, Berg, you, or I can’t say why a SS# IS ISSUED to any particular person but we all can say Obama’s SS# is illegal BECAUSE IT WAS NEVER ISSUED TO HIM BY THE SSA.

    Oh Jolly- decided to come grace Obamaconspiracy with your usual litany of unsubstantiated claims?

    Like these.

    I will leave it to the other posters here to provide a better coupe de grace on you than I can. But for those who haven’t experienced Jolly’s style of posting before, just expect to see lots of unsustantiated Birther propaganda claims, and nary a response when challenged to prove anything.

    Then he will tire of spewing his bile here and move somewhere else.

  27. avatar
    Scientist December 10, 2011 at 6:20 pm #

    jollyroger88805: What we do know is that the “SSA HAS VERIFIED THE NUMBER 042-68-4425 THE ONE OBAMA IS USING NEVER WAS ISSUED TO HIM.”

    We know no such thing. And don’t give me the E-verify-once Taitz and her goons leaked his # then he was assigned a new one, as anyone who was a victim of identity theft by the Russian Mafia would be.

    Lets review the facts and you will see there is not the slightest evidence that Mr Obama is conducting SS fraud:

    1. He was born in the US and was entitled to an SSN.
    2. Pretend if it makes you happy that he was born outside the US. His mother was a citizen, so he was entitled to citizenship upon his arrival here (we have been through these laws numerous times here, sorry you missed it). Failing citizenship, he would have been a legal permanent resident, as any mior child of a US citizen is automatically. They also get legitimate SSNs
    3. Is he some SSN scammer? He lived in cheap apartments in NYC. Then he lived in cheap apartments in Chicago. He got federal student loans, which require a valid SSN (we know because people in Iowa were arrested for breaking into his student loan records). In fact, he lived very simply until his book became a best-seller, at whiich point he bought a house whose porchase price was comfortably affordable given his book royalties, as declared on his tax returns. No evidence at any point of unreported income. If he has been running a giant scam for the last 30 years, show me the money.

    As for his uncle, who cares? His uncle did not have a US citiizen mother and was not entitled to a legal SSN. According to you if some uncle that I saw once or twice iin my life were a bank robber, then I must be one too. Neither the facts, nor logic, nor common sense supports your assertions. You are simply an ignorant doofus.

  28. avatar
    Scientist December 10, 2011 at 6:22 pm #

    Show me a statement from

    sfjeff: Oh Jolly- decided to come grace Obamaconspiracy with your usual litany of unsubstantiated claims?

    I would like to see the statement from any official of the SSA regarding M\r Obama’s SSN. I bet jolly will be happy to post that, right.

  29. avatar
    Northland10 December 10, 2011 at 6:37 pm #

    jollyroger88805:
    Why should we put any credencce into anything a foreigner says concerning Obama’s legal status here.

    And where is Orly from?

  30. avatar
    Arthur December 10, 2011 at 6:38 pm #

    sfjeff: I will leave it to the other posters here to provide a better coupe de grace on you than I can.

    It won’t be me.

    JollyTimePopCorn’s arguments are too original, his reasoning too astute, and his evidence too compelling. How can anyone ever hope to challenge this . . . this . . . this intellectual minimus?

    Yawn.

    Jolly, go tell it to the judge. Your rants aren’t worth the rude wind that blows in your saturnine face.

  31. avatar
    Arthur December 10, 2011 at 6:40 pm #

    Northland10: And where is Orly from?

    A hit, a very palpable hit.

  32. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 6:50 pm #

    sfjeff: jollyroger88805: There is no way to know how Obama got his illegal SS#. What we do know is that the “SSA HAS VERIFIED THE NUMBER 042-68-4425 THE ONE OBAMA IS USING NEVER WAS ISSUED TO HIM.” You are correct Orly, Berg, you, or I can’t say why a SS# IS ISSUED to any particular person but we all can say Obama’s SS# is illegal BECAUSE IT WAS NEVER ISSUED TO HIM BY THE SSA.Oh Jolly- decided to come grace Obamaconspiracy with your usual litany of unsubstantiated claims?Like these. I will leave it to the other posters here to provide a better coupe de grace on you than I can. But for those who haven’t experienced Jolly’s style of posting before, just expect to see lots of unsustantiated Birther propaganda claims, and nary a response when challenged to prove anything. Then he will tire of spewing his bile here and move somewhere else.

    jeffie good to see you. Want to get beat in debate on another forum I see. I am more than ready. I would love to post the actual picture of the SSA verifying that Obama was never issued the SS# 042-68-4425 the number he is illegally using. Tell you what I will find the link to post. And people jeffie only knows how to quote from one source the Book of “Just because I say so” He never had anything to say on the other forum but unsubstaniated opinion when he wasn’t just making personal attacks like he has just started here. You watch he will never debate because he has no facts to refute the truth I post. Bring it on jeffie.

  33. avatar
    Majority Will December 10, 2011 at 6:57 pm #

    jollyroger88805: Chris is the person I responded to. Berg is the person who is using Hawaii SS death records to claim Obama is using a valid SS#.

    That’s not what you wrote:

    jollyroger88805: “Chris Berg has done only half a research job on those numbers.”

    The point is the detail on names in your reply was sloppy which is similar to the accusation you are making.

    That burning smell is another perfectly good irony meter ruined by self-immolation.

    P.S. You are not expected to understand or appreciate this brilliant situation.

    “Just look at the names.” Indeed. Thanks for playing.

  34. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 6:58 pm #

    Is there a way to post images on this forum? I need to show jeffie again the SSA verification that Obama was never issued SS# 042-68-4425.

  35. avatar
    Majority Will December 10, 2011 at 6:59 pm #

    Wow. The quality of idiot birther troll may have hit a new low.

  36. avatar
    Arthur December 10, 2011 at 7:04 pm #

    jollyroger88805: Is there a way to post images on this forum? I need to show jeffie again the SSA verification that Obama was never issued SS# 042-68-4425.

    Yes, you can post images. Just send Dr. C. your long form birth certificate and your SSN, and he’ll give you the password.

  37. avatar
    Majority Will December 10, 2011 at 7:05 pm #

    sfjeff:
    jollyroger88805: There is no way to know how Obama got his illegal SS#. What we do know is that the “SSA HAS VERIFIED THE NUMBER 042-68-4425 THE ONE OBAMA IS USING NEVER WAS ISSUED TO HIM.” You are correct Orly, Berg, you, or I can’t say why a SS# IS ISSUED to any particular person but we all can say Obama’s SS# is illegal BECAUSE IT WAS NEVER ISSUED TO HIM BY THE SSA.

    Oh Jolly- decided to come grace Obamaconspiracy with your usual litany of unsubstantiated claims?

    Like these.

    I will leave it to the otherposters here to provide a better coupe de grace on you than I can. But for those who haven’t experienced Jolly’s style of posting before, just expect to see lots of unsustantiated Birther propaganda claims, and nary a response when challenged to prove anything.

    Then he will tire of spewing his bile here and move somewhere else.

    Big surprise. Another mentally challenged birther bigot.

    Yawn.

    Oh yes. I almost forgot. . . . Any . . . day . . . now.

  38. avatar
    Scientist December 10, 2011 at 7:07 pm #

    jollyroger88805: Is there a way to post images on this forum? I need to show jeffie again the SSA verification that Obama was never issued SS# 042-68-4425

    Why don’t you report this to the SSA? They have a toll-free number and a website. If they recover benefits paid inappropriately, you would be entitled to a reward. You are a fool to tell us all about this and lose out.

  39. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 7:28 pm #

    Scientist: We know no such thing. And don’t give me the E-verify-once Taitz and her goons leaked his # then he was assigned a new one, as anyone who was a victim of identity theft by the Russian Mafia would be. Lets review the facts and you will see there is not the slightest evidence that Mr Obama is conducting SS fraud:1. He was born in the US and was entitled to an SSN.2. Pretend if it makes you happy that he was born outside the US. His mother was a citizen, so he was entitled to citizenship upon his arrival here (we have been through these laws numerous times here, sorry you missed it). Failing citizenship, he would have been a legal permanent resident, as any mior child of a US citizen is automatically. They also get legitimate SSNs3. Is he some SSN scammer? He lived in cheap apartments in NYC. Then he lived in cheap apartments in Chicago. He got federal student loans, which require a valid SSN (we know because people in Iowa were arrested for breaking into his student loan records). In fact, he lived very simply until his book became a best-seller, at whiich point he bought a house whose porchase price was comfortably affordable given his book royalties, as declared on his tax returns. No evidence at any point of unreported income. If he has been running a giant scam for the last 30 years, show me the money.As for his uncle, who cares? His uncle did not have a US citiizen mother and was not entitled to a legal SSN. According to you if some uncle that I saw once or twice iin my life were a bank robber, then I must be one too. Neither the facts, nor logic, nor common sense supports your assertions. You are simply an ignorant doofus.

    You make no refutation to anything I said. “1. He was born in the US ” I said nothing about where he was born. You are beating a dead horse there. “2” is nothing more than a rehash of #1. Again I never mentioned anything about his birth. So far you sound like a broken record debating something that was never said. The more I read your rebuttal the more I think you are debating yourself. I never mentioned anything about his tax records (I think you did) I never said anything about the R.E. he claims on his tax return. (But interestingly the Chicago tax records show no property taxes paid by Obama on the house he supposedly owns in Chicago) And then when all your rantings fall aside you make a personal attack. Typical very typical. And simply to make up stories ” don’t give me the E-verify-once Taitz and her goons leaked his # then he was assigned a new one” SSA does not and has never re-issued any numbers. Its your statement prove it. And I never mentioned E-Verify either. I would love to post the document by the SSA on here that says SS# 042-68-4425 WAS NEVER ISSUED TO OBAMA. You can not get around that. You ask, “Is he some SSN scammer?” Well according to the SSA evidently so. It is their offical report you are arguing against not me.

  40. avatar
    G December 10, 2011 at 7:36 pm #

    Wrong. SSA has an entire process and *several* reasons for re-assigning someone a new SSN. One of the key reasons listed is Identity Theft. *duh*

    http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/79/kw/issue%20new%20social%20security%20number

    jollyroger88805: And simply to make up stories ” don’t give me the E-verify-once Taitz and her goons leaked his # then he was assigned a new one” SSA does not and has never re-issued any numbers.

  41. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 7:40 pm #

    Scientist: Show me a statement fromI would like to see the statement from any official of the SSA regarding M\r Obama’s SSN. I bet jolly will be happy to post that, right.

    You are correct I’ll be happy to post the actual copy here if it is possible to do so. So far ever way I have tried to post it this forum evidently is not cabable of taking. If it is capable of posting images tell me how to get them on here if you REALLY want to see it. But I doubt you want to see anything that contains the truth.

  42. avatar
    G December 10, 2011 at 7:43 pm #

    No. You are obviously the one who has no ability to comprehend an argument.

    Nobody here is saying that particular number didn’t belong to Obama at some point. So, you are merely making up arguments and arguing with yourself on that particular issue, I guess.

    The points are simple:

    1. There is no fixed correlation to the SSN prefix and the state you live in or were born in. The SSA clearly states such on their site. Therefore there is nothing strange about the SSN number you seem so obsessed with for Obama.

    2. Yes, that appears to have been his number for most of his life and it also is quite clear that number recently had to be changed to a different one. Yes, Identity Theft arguments apply here. What Orly’s minions did in claiming to be him in getting that info is itself a form of Identity Theft. Second, once Orly or anyone else publically and irresponsibly displayed his SSN online for the world to see, that was clear justification for the SSA to issue him a new number going forward. Pretty simple, really.

    Now, you keep claiming to be making a point about something… yet I fail to see any actual point or argument being made by you. Just some debunked nonsense and rambling whining…

    jollyroger88805: I would love to post the document by the SSA on here that says SS# 042-68-4425 WAS NEVER ISSUED TO OBAMA. You can not get around that. You ask, “Is he some SSN scammer?” Well according to the SSA evidently so. It is their offical report you are arguing against not me.

  43. avatar
    G December 10, 2011 at 7:43 pm #

    Why don’t you simply post a link?

    jollyroger88805: You are correct I’ll be happy to post the actual copy here if it is possible to do so. So far ever way I have tried to post it this forum evidently is not cabable of taking. If it is capable of posting images tell me how to get them on here if you REALLY want to see it. But I doubt you want to see anything that contains the truth.

  44. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 7:46 pm #

    G: Wrong. SSA has an entire process and *several* reasons for re-assigning someone a new SSN. One of the key reasons listed is Identity Theft. *duh*http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/79/kw/issue%20new%20social%20security%20number

    Thanks for posting those re-issue guidelines. You still have the same problem tho. Re-issues are all after the fact. It does not change the fact Obama was never issued the SS# 042-68-4425. You have already admitted he has used it. The SSA has already verified it never issued that number to Obama.

  45. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 7:53 pm #

    Northland10: And where is Orly from?

    Did I say I had any credence in her? No I haven’t said that. But she is a naturalized citizen from California. The Magic M indicated they are German or at the least a German citizen now. If The Magic M is a naturlized U.S. citizen I’ll be happy to provide an apology for misreading their statement.

  46. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 7:57 pm #

    Majority Will: That’s not what you wrote:jollyroger88805: “Chris Berg has done only half a research job on those numbers.”The point is the detail on names in your reply was sloppy which is similar to the accusation you are making.That burning smell is another perfectly good irony meter ruined by self-immolation.P.S. You are not expected to understand or appreciate this brilliant situation.“Just look at the names.” Indeed. Thanks for playing.

    I am so impressed that you can be made happy by someone leaving out a “,”.
    And even when I clarified the situation for you all you can do is ridicule instead of actually debating. I knew your position was weak. And you know it is weak too. So weak you can not defend it but only make personal attacks.

  47. avatar
    Majority Will December 10, 2011 at 7:59 pm #

    “But I doubt you want to see anything that contains the truth.”

    BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! !

    Holy crap, that was mildly funny even for a birther idiot!

  48. avatar
    Majority Will December 10, 2011 at 8:00 pm #

    jollyroger88805: I am so impressed that you can be made happy by someone leaving out a “,”.
    And even when I clarified the situation for you all you can do is ridicule instead of actually debating. I knew your position was weak. And you know it is weak too. So weak you can not defend it but only make personal attacks.

    There is nothing to debate. You make idiotic, unsubstantiated claims like other birther bigots.

  49. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 8:04 pm #

    Arthur: It won’t be me. JollyTimePopCorn’s arguments are too original, his reasoning too astute, and his evidence too compelling. How can anyone ever hope to challenge this . . . this . . . this intellectual minimus? Yawn. Jolly, go tell it to the judge. Your rants aren’t worth the rude wind that blows in your saturnine face.

    Arthur
    Typical No facts for rebuttal because you have none just personal attacks. Next. Do any of you know that debating means to provide opposing facts. Personal attacks do not do that. This forum is the worst I have seen with such opinionated unsubstaniated babbling. Can I be run off sure? I won’t waste time on people who only make personal attacks. I am not the topic. I am not worth the time attacking me. It does you no good and scores you no points.
    I was actually hoping to find some reaasonable people on here that would like to debate the facts. Evidently I was wrong there.

  50. avatar
    Majority Will December 10, 2011 at 8:04 pm #

    If a birther troll is obviously an idiot, isn’t that a statement of fact or is just an opinion?

  51. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 8:05 pm #

    Arthur: Yes, you can post images. Just send Dr. C. your long form birth certificate and your SSN, and he’ll give you the password.

    Hahahahahahahah good one.

  52. avatar
    Majority Will December 10, 2011 at 8:07 pm #

    jollyroger88805: I was actually hoping to find some reaasonable people on here that would like to debate the facts. Evidently I was wrong there.

    You’re wrong a lot.

    As it has been wisely said here a few times before, if you don’t want to be ridiculed, don’t be ridiculous.

    Your bizarre babbling is a ridiculous birther fantasy.

  53. avatar
    Majority Will December 10, 2011 at 8:09 pm #

    jollyroger88805: This forum is the worst I have seen with such opinionated unsubstaniated babbling.

    Then stick to birther echo chambers where all responses are heavily censored like good, little fascists.

  54. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 8:13 pm #

    Majority Will: There is nothing to debate. You make idiotic, unsubstantiated claims like other birther bigots.

    Let me make it simple for you. Debate: Obama has a valid SS# vs Obama has an illegal SS#.

    SSA says that the number Obama has been using and admitted by you HAS NEVER BEEN ISSUED TO HIM. End of debate. You have never overcome the SSA verification.
    Again personal attacks have no place in debates. But then again that’s all you have to go against the truth.

  55. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 8:15 pm #

    Majority Will: You’re wrong a lot.As it has been wisely said here a few times before, if you don’t want to be ridiculed, don’t be ridiculous.Your bizarre babbling is a ridiculous birther fantasy.

    More personal attack and no substance from you. You are getting very boring.

  56. avatar
    sfjeff December 10, 2011 at 8:15 pm #

    Did I predict it correctly or what?

    Jolly still hasn’t backed up a single statement he has made.

    And he won’t.

    Been through this before on Politicalforum.com. He likes to make big claims and make juvenile insults but when pushed to prove any of it……well he makes more big claims and makes more juvenile insults.

  57. avatar
    Scientist December 10, 2011 at 8:27 pm #

    jollyroger88805: SSA says that the number Obama has been using and admitted by you HAS NEVER BEEN ISSUED TO HIM.

    Where and when did they say that? Show me.

  58. avatar
    Scientist December 10, 2011 at 8:29 pm #

    jollyroger88805: But she is a naturalized citizen from California.

    Have you seen her Certificate of Naturalization?

  59. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 8:29 pm #

    G: Why don’t you simply post a link?

    Tell you what G anyone that is on here that wants to see the truth go directly to the source and request the info. I have it and can post the result if it is possible to do so here. But most of the people here would not accept any link I post. So the link I will give you is Social Security Number Verification System. Just put in Barrack Hussein Obama and the SS# 042-68-4425 and you will get the SSA official verification that Obama was never issued SS# 042-68-4425

  60. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 8:30 pm #

    Scientist: Have you seen her Certificate of Naturalization?

    No and I haven’t seen yours either. So what does that have to do with Obama using an illegal SS# ?

  61. avatar
    misha December 10, 2011 at 8:30 pm #

    jollyroger88805: SSA says that the number Obama has been using and admitted by you HAS NEVER BEEN ISSUED TO HIM.

    Link please. I want to look at the actual statement issued by a SSA employee. Show me the statement to that effect, and I will believe you.

    I’m waiting.

  62. avatar
    Scientist December 10, 2011 at 8:32 pm #

    jollyroger88805: So the link I will give you is Social Security Number Verification System. Just put in Barrack Hussein Obama and the SS# 042-68-4425 and you will get the SSA official verification that Obama was never issued SS# 042-68-4425

    Why have you not reported this to SSA and claimed a reward?

  63. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 8:33 pm #

    Scientist: Where and when did they say that? Show me.

    I would love too but as you know this forum doesn’t accept imaging posts. You can if you really want to see it go to Social Security Number Verification System put in Barrack Hussein Obama and SS# 042-68-4425 and you can get the report direct.

  64. avatar
    Scientist December 10, 2011 at 8:33 pm #

    jollyroger88805: So what does that have to do with Obama using an illegal SS# ?

    Orly could be claiming fraud to cover up her own fraud. That is a VERY likely scenario.

  65. avatar
    Scientist December 10, 2011 at 8:34 pm #

    jollyroger88805: You can if you really want to see it go to Social Security Number Verification System put in Barrack Hussein Obama and SS# 042-68-4425 and you can get the report direct.

    Why haven’t you claimed a reward?

  66. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 8:35 pm #

    misha: Link please. I want to look at the actual statement issued by a SSA employee. Show me the statement to that effect, and I will believe you.I’m waiting.

    Don’t wait go to Social Security Number Verification System put in Barrack Hussein Obama and SS# 042-68-4425 and you can get the report direct.

  67. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 8:35 pm #

    Scientist: Why haven’t you claimed a reward?

    A reward for what?

  68. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 8:37 pm #

    sfjeff: Did I predict it correctly or what?Jolly still hasn’t backed up a single statement he has made. And he won’t.Been through this before on Politicalforum.com. He likes to make big claims and make juvenile insults but when pushed to prove any of it……well he makes more big claims and makes more juvenile insults.

    Hahahahahahahaha You crack me up. I see you still don’t want to debate.

  69. avatar
    Scientist December 10, 2011 at 8:38 pm #

    jollyroger88805: Don’t wait go to Social Security Number Verification System put in Barrack Hussein Obama and SS# 042-68-4425 and you can get the report direct.

    You misspelled his name. No wonder it didn’t work. There is only one “r” in Barack. Typical sloppy work.

    Show me the letter where SSA thinked you for alerting them and a the reward check they sent you.

  70. avatar
    Majority Will December 10, 2011 at 8:38 pm #

    jollyroger88805: Just put in Barrack Hussein Obama

    But we’re not illiterate birthers who can’t even spell the President’s name correctly.

  71. avatar
    Scientist December 10, 2011 at 8:39 pm #

    jollyroger88805: A reward for what?

    Did you report the false # to the SSA? A simple yes or no, please

  72. avatar
    Arthur December 10, 2011 at 8:42 pm #

    jollyroger88805: ArthurTypical No facts for rebuttal because you have none just personal attacks. Next. Do any of you know that debating means to provide opposing facts. Personal attacks do not do that. This forum is the worst I have seen with such opinionated unsubstaniated babbling. Can I be run off sure? I won’t waste time on people who only make personal attacks. I am not the topic. I am not worth the time attacking me. It does you no good and scores you no points.I was actually hoping to find some reaasonable people on here that would like to debate the facts. Evidently I was wrong there.

    Facts are not required to refute a fool–he wouldn’t accept them, even if he had the wit to do do so. And I’m not attacking you, I’m laughing at you. You deserve ridicule and scorn, and that’s what you’ll receive.

    Now, if you really feel you have truths to tell, then try to convince someone who actually has authority to take action. But of course, you won’t because you can’t–you’re an impotent blowhard who has nothing but words without substance.

    But go, wag you head, and chatter your keyboard with your fatuous fingers. I find you deeply amusing, as I do all muggins.

  73. avatar
    misha December 10, 2011 at 8:43 pm #

    jollyroger88805: Why should we put any credencce into anything a foreigner says concerning Obama’s legal status here.

    jollyroger88805: But she is a naturalized citizen from California.

    Orly Taitz was a streetwalker in Moldova. She never denied it. Just like Glenn Beck has never denied raping and murdering a girl in 1990.

    Birds of a feather…

  74. avatar
    Scientist December 10, 2011 at 8:46 pm #

    jollyroger: Let’s pretend the President were running a giant Social Security scam from the White House basement, collectiing $ millions every month. What exactly would you like us to do about it?
    Report it to the auuthorities and then it’s up to them.

  75. avatar
    AnotherBird December 10, 2011 at 8:49 pm #

    jollyroger88805: Chris is the person I responded to. Berg is the person who is using Hawaii SS death records to claim Obama is using a valid SS#. This basis is wrong. The people Berg ID’d are people who lived and got their SS# in Connecticutt. They moved to and died in Hawaii. Very poor research on Berg’s part.
    Now we will be seeing all over the internet ineptocrats and Husseinites claiming Berg is a great debunker of the SS issue. And he is the one they have all called a crack pot up to this point. But just as soon as he puts forth a statement that is not true he becomes their hero. That doesn’t surprise me tho. They cling to a lot of falsehoods.

    You seem to be missing the point. The point is that birther just can’t agree on what their concerns are. The Social Security issue was debunked long ago, Phil Berg statement is just another example of “differences among birthers.” However, being obsessed on one document it could be expected that point would have been over looked.

  76. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 8:54 pm #

    LINK http://www.socialsecurity.gov/employer/ssnvshandbk/systemReq.htm
    Remember to put in Barrak Husein Obama and #042-68-4425

  77. avatar
    Joey December 10, 2011 at 8:57 pm #

    I’m left to wonder how the birthers explain that Barack Obama has been filing income tax returns every year and posting them on the internet while using an invalid Social Security number. You can’t file a federal return without a valid Social Security number.
    Any birther, please explain.

  78. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 8:57 pm #

    AnotherBird: You seem to be missing the point. The point is that birther just can’t agree on what their concerns are. The Social Security issue was debunked long ago, Phil Berg statement is just another example of “differences among birthers.” However, being obsessed on one document it could be expected that point would have been over looked.

    You seem to be missing the topic of debate.I could care less about differences in birthers. You and I have differences but that is not the point either. So what do you have to say about why Obama is using a SS# that was never issued to him?

  79. avatar
    G December 10, 2011 at 9:01 pm #

    No, you are the one completely missing the point and lost on some fools errand.

    All I’m saying is that whatever SSN number belonged to the president, IF it was publically revealed, would be able to be legitimately changed by SSA to a new number to use from that point forward, due to issues of Identity Theft. Simple as that. Of course re-issues happen after the fact!

    You still have YET to demonstrate that the President *ever* had anything but a valid SSN during his lifetime. That burden of proof is on you.

    jollyroger88805: Thanks for posting those re-issue guidelines. You still have the same problem tho. Re-issues are all after the fact. It does not change the fact Obama was never issued the SS# 042-68-4425. You have already admitted he has used it. The SSA has already verified it never issued that number to Obama.

  80. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 9:03 pm #

    Joey: I’m left to wonder how the birthers explain that Barack Obama has been filing income tax returns every year and posting them on the internet while using an invalid Social Security number. You can’t file a federal return without a valid Social Security number.Any birther, please explain.

    Obama has been according to the SSA because if he was never issued SS#042-68-4425 then he is filing with an invalid SS#. Go to the link I provide and enter the info you need to verify Obama never was issued SS# 042-68-4425

  81. avatar
    misha December 10, 2011 at 9:05 pm #

    jollyroger88805: So what do you have to say about why Obama is using a SS# that was never issued to him?

    What do you have to say about Orly Taitz being a streetwalker in Moldova?

  82. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 9:08 pm #

    Scientist: jollyroger: Let’s pretend the President were running a giant Social Security scam from the White House basement, collectiing $ millions every month. What exactly would you like us to do about it?Report it to the auuthorities and then it’s up to them.

    How would he be collecting any money from SSA until he is either retired or disabled? Oh wait a minute there is one other possiblity but I only mention it as the only other way to collect any money but it wouldn’t be from SSA. He could sell the stolen numbers. But this is all pretend. I like to deal with reality. And the reality is the SSA has verified SS# 042-68-4425 was NEVER ISSUED to Obama.

  83. avatar
    misha December 10, 2011 at 9:12 pm #

    jollyroger88805: And the reality is the SSA has verified SS# 042-68-4425 was NEVER ISSUED to Obama.

    The reality is that Orly Taitz has never proven she is not clinically insane.

  84. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 9:13 pm #

    misha: What do you have to say about Orly Taitz being a streetwalker in Moldova?

    Have you used her services? I know nothing about it. But if you have first hand knowledge maybe you would like to tell everyone. I really could care less. There are several democrats in and forced out of Congress that fill that bill but they are still citizens and as far as I know have valid SS#’s

  85. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 9:15 pm #

    misha: The reality is that Orly Taitz has never proven she is not clinically insane.

    You debate Taitz all you want. I do not defend her. Shoot I probably agree with you on a lot of points. But that has no bearing on the reality that Obama is using a SS# that was never issued to him. Why aren’t you addressing that?

  86. avatar
    James M December 10, 2011 at 9:17 pm #

    Joey:
    I’m left to wonder how the birthers explain that Barack Obama has been filing income tax returns every year and posting them on the internet while using an invalid Social Security number. You can’t file a federal return without a valid Social Security number.
    Any birther, please explain.

    Social security _or_ Tax Identification number. I’m sure the birthers assume he has friends in high places. For instance, how did he hide all his speeding tickets?

  87. avatar
    AnotherBird December 10, 2011 at 9:19 pm #

    jollyroger88805: You seem to be missing the topic of debate.I could care less about differences in birthers. You and I have differences but that is not the point either. So what do you have to say about why Obama is using a SS# that was never issued to him?

    That is apparently obvious, and that is your crux. Everyone here is are refusing to debate you accept that Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural born citizen. That is the key issue, but just like other birthers you are more concerned with externalities. Why are using a SS# that was never issued to you?

  88. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 9:20 pm #

    Scientist: You misspelled his name. No wonder it didn’t work. There is only one “r” in Barack. Typical sloppy work. Show me the letter where SSA thinked you for alerting them and a the reward check they sent you.

    Then maybe you would put in the correct spelling. Either way it will come up. I know you won’t because you don’t want to actually find out the truth from the source for yourself.

  89. avatar
    misha December 10, 2011 at 9:26 pm #

    jollyroger88805: Have you used her services?

    Yes I have.

    jollyroger88805: But that has no bearing on the reality that Obama is using a SS# that was never issued to him. Why aren’t you addressing that?

    Why haven’t you reported this to the SSA, and collected the reward?

  90. avatar
    jollyroger88805 December 10, 2011 at 9:29 pm #

    You know I gave you all a chance to be civilized and discuss a serious problem. It reminds me of the time I was in college and took 5 other classmates to some frat parties. They all got drunk. I drove and stayed sober. After they got drunk and it was time to go I found myself arguing with 5 impaired individuals as to where we parked. I had to tell them they either followed the sober person or they could walk back to town. It is the same thing here. There are nothing but drunks (figurative) on here. You have no intelligence because you are druck with the Husseinite wine. You all deserve each other. You all can stay in your stupor. One day you will have to sober up. Hopefully you will be able to do so of your own will.

  91. avatar
    misha December 10, 2011 at 9:32 pm #

    jollyroger88805: There are nothing but drunks (figurative) on here. You have no intelligence because you are druck with the Husseinite wine.

    My Alice B. Toklas brownies are famous, so I don’t bother with wine.

  92. avatar
    misha December 10, 2011 at 9:40 pm #

    jollyroger88805: You know I gave you all a chance to be civilized and discuss a serious problem.

    I decided to take your advice, and went to the SSA verification site.

    I found this so you may be up to something.

  93. avatar
    AnotherBird December 10, 2011 at 9:46 pm #

    jollyroger88805:
    You know I gave you all a chance to be civilized and discuss a serious problem. It reminds me of the time I was in college and took 5 other classmates to some frat parties. They all got drunk. I drove and stayed sober. After they got drunk and it was time to go I found myself arguing with 5 impaired individuals as to where we parked. I had to tell them they either followed the sober person or they could walk back to town. It is the same thing here. There are nothing but drunks (figurative) on here. You have no intelligence because you are druck with the Husseinite wine. You all deserve each other. You all can stay in your stupor. One day you will have to sober up. Hopefully you will be able to do so of your own will.

    Serious problem? There is a serious problem, your refusal to accept that the issues that birthers have raised wouldn’t have been addressed. That includes your refusal to accept that when authorities confirm the authenticity of document, or correctness of information.

    If the state that was born in confirmed that you were born there I would accept it as fact. This is a courtesy that you refuse to give others. To be honest, just seeing any government issued document that stated your place of birth would be sufficient for me.

    It is time for you to sober up.

  94. avatar
    Majority Will December 10, 2011 at 9:47 pm #

    This idiot birther troll just keeps babbling the most precious little inanities.

    I found proof that Barack Obama is still our President:

    “Barack H. Obama is the 44th President of the United States.

    His story is the American story — values from the heartland, a middle-class upbringing in a strong family, hard work and education as the means of getting ahead, and the conviction that a life so blessed should be lived in service to others.

    With a father from Kenya and a mother from Kansas, President Obama was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961. He was raised with help from his grandfather, who served in Patton’s army, and his grandmother, who worked her way up from the secretarial pool to middle management at a bank.”

    The rest of the story is here and they even know how to spell his name:
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/president-obama

    Barack H. Obama is a true American.

  95. avatar
    Keith December 10, 2011 at 11:02 pm #

    jollyroger88805:
    LINK http://www.socialsecurity.gov/employer/ssnvshandbk/systemReq.htm
    Remember to put in Barrak Husein Obama and #042-68-4425

    Just so you understand, it appears that this service is for employers to verify the SSN details of their employee for the purposes of filling out tax forms.

    Are you the direct employer of Barrack Husein Obama and are you filling out his tax forms?

    I thought not.

    You would then appear to be breaking the law by using that service in the manner you are using it.

    People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

  96. avatar
    G December 10, 2011 at 11:09 pm #

    Look, you have a basic problem here in that you are trying to goad us into committing fraud by violating the terms of use of this database.

    The Social Security Number Verification Service (SSNVS) is one of the services offered by Social Security Administration’s (SSA) Business Services Online (BSO). It allows registered users (employers and certain third-party submitters) to verify the names and Social Security Numbers (SSNs) of employees against SSA records.

    I am neither an employer or qualified “third-party submitter” of Barack Obama. Nor are you. Nor is anyone else on here.

    Therefore, NONE of us are qualified to access that database to get at that data. Doing so would be committing an act of FRAUD!

    Therefore, please try to contain your arguments to activities that don’t require fraudulent and potentially criminal violations of database terms of use.

    jollyroger88805: LINK http://www.socialsecurity.gov/employer/ssnvshandbk/systemReq.htmRemember to put in Barrak Husein Obama and #042-68-4425

  97. avatar
    G December 10, 2011 at 11:14 pm #

    Here’s the link to their terms of use:

    http://www.socialsecurity.gov/employer/ssnvshandbk/ssnvs_bso.htm

    G: The Social Security Number Verification Service (SSNVS) is one of the services offered by Social Security Administration’s (SSA) Business Services Online (BSO). It allows registered users (employers and certain third-party submitters) to verify the names and Social Security Numbers (SSNs) of employees against SSA records.

  98. avatar
    GeorgetownJD December 11, 2011 at 1:55 am #

    jollyroger88805: Obama has been according to the SSA because if he was never issued SS#042-68-4425 then he is filing with an invalid SS#. Go to the link I provide and enter the info you need to verify Obama never was issued SS# 042-68-4425

    The IRS’s Integrated Data Retrieval System consists of multiple databases, including a TIF (Taxpayer Information File) that contains contains taxpayer data information for every singletaxpayer. IDRS matches the name, SSN and date of birth to SSA records.

    It simply is not possible to file a tax return using a SSN that was not assigned to the individual.

  99. avatar
    y_p_w December 11, 2011 at 1:58 am #

    G:
    Look, you have a basic problem here in that you are trying to goad us into committing fraud by violating the terms of use of this database.

    I am neither an employer or qualified “third-party submitter” of Barack Obama.Nor are you.Nor is anyone else on here.


    Therefore, NONE of us are qualified to access that database to get at that data.Doing so would be committing an act of FRAUD!

    Therefore, please try to contain your arguments to activities that don’t require fraudulent and potentially criminal violations of database terms of use.

    Or this:

    http://www.socialsecurity.gov/employer/ssnvshandbk/ssnvs_bso.htm

    Anyone who knowingly and willfully uses SSNVS to request or obtain information from SSA under false pretenses violates Federal law and may be punished by a fine, imprisonment or both.

    Regardless of all that, this probably isn’t anything different than the person who illegally used the Self-Check system to try and see if Obama’s reported SSN was valid.

    They also have some funky limitations too. I remember reading about a woman who was fired from her job because her employer used E-Verify, and after they spelled her middle name incorrectly. They weren’t allowed to use it to verify a current employee, but some employers do all sorts of strange things.

    As for this system, I wouldn’t necessarily trust that it is the be all and end all. There apparently is a category for verification result that says “1 = SSN not in file (never issued).”

    http://www.socialsecurity.gov/employer/ssnvshandbk/return.htm

    I wouldn’t take it at face value that it’s 100% accurate. Most of us suspect that Obama likely has a new SSN because of how his initial SSN was made public. I could imagine that an invalidation might cause some strange results if the invalidated number is used for any kind of verification purpose.

  100. avatar
    US Citizen December 11, 2011 at 3:49 am #

    Well this says it all for me.
    If Obama can make up a multi digit number and have it accepted by the SSA, IRS and all others as being his, then he’s the man for me.
    I want a president that has vision and fantastic luck, not to mention huge balls.
    I myself would be scared to make up my own number and attempt to process tax returns with it, but here Obama has that rare combination of not only being able to guess a workable number, but also the courage to use it all these years.
    He gets my vote.

  101. avatar
    Scientist December 11, 2011 at 5:55 am #

    US Citizen: Well this says it all for me.If Obama can make up a multi digit number and have it accepted by the SSA, IRS and all others as being his, then he’s the man for me.I want a president that has vision and fantastic luck, not to mention huge balls.I myself would be scared to make up my own number and attempt to process tax returns with it, but here Obama has that rare combination of not only being able to guess a workable number, but also the courage to use it all these years.He gets my vote.

    You mean he’d be the kind of person who when presented with the option to drop bombs on bin Laden’s compound or send in Navy Seals to confirm the kill and grab all the hard drives and thumb drives packed with useful intelligence would make the gutsy call? I agree.

  102. avatar
    Majority Will December 11, 2011 at 7:18 am #

    G:
    Look, you have a basic problem here in that you are trying to goad us into committing fraud by violating the terms of use of this database.

    I am neither an employer or qualified “third-party submitter” of Barack Obama.Nor are you.Nor is anyone else on here.


    Therefore, NONE of us are qualified to access that database to get at that data.Doing so would be committing an act of FRAUD!

    Therefore, please try to contain your arguments to activities that don’t require fraudulent and potentially criminal violations of database terms of use.

    jollyroger88805 has a history of posting extreme birther stupidity. The irony in some of the posts will destroy many innocent irony meters.

    The SSN B.S. is just this paranoid birther’s folly of the moment:

    http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?p=507146

    http://www.politicalforum.com/political-opinions-beliefs/218617-hawaii-will-not-accept-bc-like-obamas.html

    (source: Google search of jollyroger88805)

  103. avatar
    Majority Will December 11, 2011 at 7:32 am #

    Keith: Just so you understand, it appears that this service is for employers to verify the SSN details of their employee for the purposes of filling out tax forms.

    Are you the direct employer of Barrack Husein Obama and are you filling out his tax forms?

    I thought not.

    You would then appear to be breaking the law by using that service in the manner you are using it.

    People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

    Isn’t it illegal to post the unredacted SSN of another person?

  104. avatar
    Scientist December 11, 2011 at 8:25 am #

    jollyroger88805: How would he be collecting any money from SSA until he is either retired or disabled? Oh wait a minute there is one other possiblity but I only mention it as the only other way to collect any money but it wouldn’t be from SSA. He could sell the stolen numbers.

    How can you sell a number that isn’t connected to a name? If that is possible, then I will just generate random strings of 9 digit numbers and sell them on EBay. There are 999,999,999 of them, so if I can get $1 for each one, and add iin $1 of my own, I will be a billionaire.

  105. avatar
    Reality Check December 11, 2011 at 9:45 am #

    You know if Doc wanted to do it he could report jollyroger88805’s IP address to the FBI tip line for jolly’s illegal access to the SSA employee verification system and encouraging others to violate the law.

  106. avatar
    US Citizen December 11, 2011 at 10:22 am #

    Reality Check:
    You know if Doc wanted to do it he could report jollyroger88805′s IP address to the FBI tip line for jolly’s illegal access to the SSA employee verification system and encouraging others to violate the law.

    That’s a great idea since they would likely perform all sorts of background checks on this person, perhaps visit him at his home or place of employment, maybe recommend an IRS audit or any number of fun, time passing adventures.
    That *would* be Jolly!

  107. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) December 11, 2011 at 10:26 am #

    jollyroger88805:
    LINK http://www.socialsecurity.gov/employer/ssnvshandbk/systemReq.htm
    Remember to put in Barrak Husein Obama and #042-68-4425

    Well there’s your problem you’re not even spelling the President’s name correctly

  108. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) December 11, 2011 at 10:30 am #

    US Citizen: That’s a great idea since they would likely perform all sorts of background checks on this person, perhaps visit him at his home or place of employment, maybe recommend an IRS audit or any number of fun, time passing adventures.
    That *would* be Jolly!

    Then they will intern him at the FEMA camps they have set aside for birthers

  109. avatar
    Reality Check December 11, 2011 at 11:38 am #

    US Citizen: That’s a great idea since they would likely perform all sorts of background checks on this person, perhaps visit him at his home or place of employment, maybe recommend an IRS audit or any number of fun, time passing adventures.
    That *would* be Jolly!

    If I use Birfer logic I would also conclude that encouraging others to violate the law is a conspiracy and would invite a RICO action.

  110. avatar
    GeorgetownJD December 11, 2011 at 11:56 am #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Well there’s your problem you’re not even spelling the President’s name correctly


    Yep, he cannot even illegally access the eVerify system properly. I wonder how jolly manages to ties his shoes each day.

  111. avatar
    y_p_w December 11, 2011 at 12:20 pm #

    Reality Check:
    You know if Doc wanted to do it he could report jollyroger88805′s IP address to the FBI tip line for jolly’s illegal access to the SSA employee verification system and encouraging others to violate the law.

    The SSA has its own enforcement division. The direct approach might work better.

    http://oig.ssa.gov/report-fraud-waste-or-abuse/fraud-waste-and-abuse

  112. avatar
    Reality Check December 11, 2011 at 2:27 pm #

    The Office of the Inspector General website doesn’t specifically list misuse of the SSVN site as something they would investigate but I am sure they would forward such a report to the appropriate group.

  113. avatar
    sfjeff December 11, 2011 at 2:32 pm #

    I will just point out for the third time- Jolly behaved exactly as Jolly behaves every time he ‘participates’ in a thread.

    Big claims, insults, and when everyone refuses to play by his rules, he stomps off in a huff.

    Notice- for example- that he never responded to anyone’s suggestions that he report this to the SSA. I have always found Birthers faux outrage rather peculiar in that they are convinced that they have ‘proof’ of this or that against Obama, but the extent of their outrage is only to post it on the internet, rather than stomping into the SSA or FBI and announcing that they will be occupying the office until someone investigates their ‘proof’.

    I am not a huge fan of the Occupy movement. As an aside, their attempt to block West Coast ports next week is particularly asinine for many reasons. But they are showing far more courage of their convictions than Birthers are.

  114. avatar
    Sef December 11, 2011 at 2:33 pm #

    GeorgetownJD: ‘
    Yep, he cannot even illegally access the eVerify system properly.I wonder how jolly manages to ties his shoes each day.

    Fortunately, he has “TGIF” tattooed on each of his feet. Now, if he could just figure out the left-right dichotomy.

  115. avatar
    sfjeff December 11, 2011 at 2:35 pm #

    Reality Check: You know if Doc wanted to do it he could report jollyroger88805′s IP address to the FBI tip line for jolly’s illegal access to the SSA employee verification system and encouraging others to violate the law.

    Yeah, I pointed this out in another forum- regardless of what is true or what is not- this claim in particular means that no matter what Birthers are liars.

    They either lie to get into the SSA database, they lie about whether they entered in the data correctly or they lie about the results. We really don’t know for certain which lie is the correct lie, but no matter what, it shows Birthers are willing to lie for their cause.

  116. avatar
    Reality Check December 11, 2011 at 3:14 pm #

    Jolly could use the OIG link posted above to report SSN fraud if he thinks that it has been committed by President Obama. Of course he will not do that because the first question they would ask is “So exactly why would someone from Circle Jerk, Ohio be poking around in a system that clearly states that it is only to be used by an employer of the person in question?” Then he could try Greg Hollister’s excuse that the President works for all of us and see if the OIG was amused.

    sfjeff:

    Notice- for example- that he never responded to anyone’s suggestions that he report this to the SSA. I have always found Birthers faux outrage rather peculiar in that they are convinced that they have proof’ of this or that against Obama, but the extent of their outrage is only to post it on the internet, rather than stomping into the SSA or FBI and announcing that they will be occupying the office until someone investigates their proof’.

  117. avatar
    Keith December 11, 2011 at 3:14 pm #

    Majority Will: Isn’t it illegal to post the unredacted SSN of another person?

    Dunno. I expect it is.

    Used to be a very restricted number of people that could legally insist on seeing your SSN and they were certainly forbidden to do anything with it that didn’t specifically pertain to the reason they were allowed to use it (e.g. income reporting for your employees). So many organizations tried to use it as ID (which the card specifically forbade), like Universities that it is possible that the rules have changed since I have lived in the USA.

  118. avatar
    brygenon December 11, 2011 at 6:36 pm #

    GeorgetownJD: Oops, November 25, 2008. Although I’m sure the birthers will still be peddling their CT well into 3008.

    The long-dead citizen parents theory seems to have first been dug up by Leo Donofrio. A form of it appeared in his application for stay to the U.S. Supreme Court, Donofrio v. Wells, which dates from shortly after the election. Donofrio noted it on his old blog on 10 November 2008.
    http://blogtext.org/naturalborncitizen/myimages/album2141.html
    http://blogtext.org/naturalborncitizen/index1/index.html

    Not all the documents from Donofrio’s pre-election New Jersey filings are available (as far as I’ve been able to determine). His “Supplemental Fact Sheet” of 27 October 2008 references Obama’s birth certificate, but not the Vattel argument.
    http://blogtext.org/naturalborncitizen/myimages/album2144.html

  119. avatar
    Sef December 11, 2011 at 9:13 pm #

    sfjeff: Yeah, I pointed this out in another forum- regardless of what is true or what is not- this claim in particular means that no matter what Birthers are liars.

    They either lie to get into the SSA database, they lie about whether they entered in the data correctly or they lie about the results. We really don’t know for certain which lie is the correct lie, but no matter what, it shows Birthers are willing to lie for their cause.

    In fact, could the eVerify failures be as simple as not entering our President’s name exactly as it appears in the SS DB? Some of the DB’s are quite explicit in their requirements.

  120. avatar
    The Magic M December 12, 2011 at 4:34 am #

    Sef: could the eVerify failures be as simple as not entering our President’s name exactly as it appears in the SS DB?

    As I use to tell birthers: if that were the case, eVerify would return either “not found” or “mismatch”. It doesn’t, so it means this is/was the SSN assigned to Obama.
    Birfers keep bitchin’ about eVerifiy saying something as vague as “marker set” (very likely due to him having been assigned a new SSN after his old one becoming public), but of course they spin it as if it had returned “mismatch” or “never assigned”.

  121. avatar
    Scientist December 12, 2011 at 6:41 am #

    Sef: In fact, could the eVerify failures be as simple as not entering our President’s name exactly as it appears in the SS DB? Some of the DB’s are quite explicit in their requirements

    There’s another possibility that I haven’t seen discussed. It might well be that for security reasons the SSA and other government agencies block access to information about the President and other high officials in public databases such as eVerify. This could be long-standing policy for all we know. It’s all very nice to pretend the President should be treated like everyone else, but he isn’t. He doesn’t have to take his shoes off to get on Air Force One nor does Air Force One end up 23rd in line for take-off. I wouldn’t expect to find his persoanl phone number in the Washington, DC directory. Just out of curiousity, did anyone ever run Bush through eVerify while he was in office? It’s quite possible you would have gotten the same answer you get for Obama now.

  122. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 12, 2011 at 7:43 am #

    SSNs were issued centrally in 1961. I have an article on it here somewhere.

    Chris: For those more knowledgeable, please correct me if I am wrong. It’s not only new but rather interesting, because it effectively debunks the idea of any strict identity of state of residence and issuing office for SSNs.

  123. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 12, 2011 at 7:44 am #

    More likely is that the President applied for a new SSN once his was plastered all over the Internet, thereby making the old one invalid.

    Scientist: There’s another possibility that I haven’t seen discussed. It might well be that for security reasons the SSA and other government agencies block access to information about the President and other high officials in public databases such as eVerify

  124. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 12, 2011 at 7:47 am #

    To the best of of my knowledge there is no federal law preventing it.

    Majority Will: Isn’t it illegal to post the unredacted SSN of another person?

  125. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 12, 2011 at 7:50 am #

    Obviously I have other ways to waste my time on fruitless gestures.

    Reality Check: You know if Doc wanted to do it he could report jollyroger88805′s IP address to the FBI tip line for jolly’s illegal access to the SSA employee verification system and encouraging others to violate the law.

  126. avatar
    Majority Will December 12, 2011 at 9:32 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    To the best of of my knowledge there is no federal law preventing it.

    From what I’ve gathered, It’s not illegal for someone to post it online but if someone else uses the SSN to commit a crime, then the poster could be charged with aiding and abetting if you can prove the poster was knowingly and willfully aiding somebody in the commission of a crime.

  127. avatar
    James M December 12, 2011 at 10:06 am #

    Majority Will: From what I’ve gathered, It’s not illegal for someone to post it online but if someone else uses the SSN to commit a crime, then the poster could be charged with aiding and abetting if you can prove the poster was knowingly and willfully aiding somebody in the commission of a crime.

    Intent is a long road.

  128. avatar
    Scientist December 12, 2011 at 10:17 am #

    Majority Will: From what I’ve gathered, It’s not illegal for someone to post it online but if someone else uses the SSN to commit a crime, then the poster could be charged with aiding and abetting if you can prove the poster was knowingly and willfully aiding somebody in the commission of a crime.

    That would be hard to prove. But I would think that you could be opening yourself to civil liabiility by posting a person’s name and SSN, if an identity thief got hold of it and caused damage to the person’s credit rating or hurt them in some other way.

  129. avatar
    ASK Esq December 12, 2011 at 10:34 am #

    Not that it would have done any good, but why didn’t anyone bother to tell jollyroger that the SSA never said that Pres. Obama’s SSN had never been issued to him, just that it was no longer matching him? When Susan Daniels (if I remember correctly) got that response from her illegal access of the SSVS, Orly declared just what roger is saying now. So, we know where he got it from, and it should have been a simple matter to shoot him down immediately.

  130. avatar
    James M December 13, 2011 at 11:44 pm #

    brygenon:

    Not all the documents from Donofrio’s pre-election New Jersey filings are available

    How many estimated millions has he paid to conceal these records?

  131. avatar
    The Magic M December 14, 2011 at 4:40 am #

    James M: How many estimated millions has he paid to conceal these records?

    The way birfers have been inflating the “2/3/4/… Obama millions” every time they mention, they should have arrived at “150% of the GNP” by now. Which probably is why they have switched to just saying “millions”.

  132. avatar
    Horus December 16, 2011 at 1:01 pm #

    G: Yeah, it really comes down to the self-deluded ego of these particular birther “leaders” in defense of their personal pet conspiracies that they cling to…and in Berg’s case, quite a dislike of the particular Birther leaders who’ve peddled the other brands of nonsense, which he is willing to actually approach rationally enough to debunk.

    These leaders of the different factions of the movement are in competition with each other as they fight over a very limited amount of Birther cash.
    Naturally they are going to try to trivialize and debunk the theories of their competitors in their quest for the lions share of the cash.