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Widely-reported misinformation on Georgia hearing

I was very surprised to see news organizations repeating birther nonsense, such as in this article: President Obama Ordered To Hearing In Atlanta About His Citizenship at the WFMY TV News web site. (The article doesn’t support the headline, by the way.) The respected Columbus Ledger-Enquirer echoed the same idea in article by Chuck Williams

A Georgia judge has ordered President Barack Obama to appear in court in Atlanta Thursday for a hearing on a complaint that says Obama isn’t a natural-born citizen and can’t be president.

It’s totally bogus. Orly Taitz got a blank subpoena form signed by Judge Malihi from a State web site and served it on Obama’s attorney. While the Judge has so far refused defense motions to quash the subpoena, the Judge has not issued any order for Obama to appear, nor could he. An administrative law judge in Georgia lacks the authority to  compel testimony; that takes an order from the Superior Court.

I am very disappointed that the media would repeat birther nonsense like this. Even the birthers are backing off from this rumor.

Update:

The Atlanta Journal Constitution, however, should be praised for getting the story right:

Eric Segall, a Georgia State University law professor, predicted that won’t happen.

“There have been many, many lawsuits trying to litigate the issue of the president’s nationality,” Segall said. “They have all been dismissed and this one should be too. In light of the frivolousness of the case, the judge has no valid authority to require the president to appear in court.”

Other news organizations getting it wrong:

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290 Responses to Widely-reported misinformation on Georgia hearing

  1. avatar
    Obsolete January 23, 2012 at 12:45 pm #

    When the subpoena is finally quashed and Obama does not not make an appearance, birthers will point to those headlines as proof that Obama considers himself above the law, the courts are corrupt, and ask” why is Obama afraid to appear in court?” (the “what is he hiding” crap renewed).
    This will all become part of the birther canon.

  2. avatar
    J. Potter January 23, 2012 at 12:53 pm #

    *sigh*

    And, by putting words in order that simply aren’t there, this reflects poorly on a judge who’s just doing his job.

    Headlines generate traffic … and headline abuse spreads stupid. it would be nice to believe there was a consistent line between mainstream journalism and tabloids. Caveat lector!

    This will be the biggest fizzle of the birther year. Good thing they have 11 months to out-whimper it! ;)

  3. avatar
    J. Potter January 23, 2012 at 12:56 pm #

    I thought it was birther canon that the media was in the tank for Obama? So, shouldn’t they be knee-jerkin’ denunciations of a crazed Southern judge and trotting out explanations of why he doesn’t have to appear? Birthers should be embracing these brave AP rebels!

  4. avatar
    richCares January 23, 2012 at 1:01 pm #

    Thursday Jan 26, Obama’s Schedule

    10:00 a.m. Veterans: Matt Flavin, White House Director of Veterans and Wounded Warrior Policy
    11:00 a.m. LGBT: Miriam Vogel, White House Senior Policy Advisor and Gautam Raghavan, White House Associate Director for Public Engagement
    12:00 p.m. Women: Racquel Russell, Special Assistant to the President for Mobility and Opportunity and Avra Siegel, White House Deputy Executive Director for the Council on Women and Girls
    1:00 p.m. Seniors: Jeanne Lambrew, Deputy Assistant to the President for Health Policy and Nick Papas, Assistant Press Secretary
    2:00 p.m. Latinos: Felicia Escobar, White House Senior Policy Advisor, Julie Rodriguez, White House Associate Director of Public Engagement and Luis Miranda, White House Director of Hispanic Media
    4:00 p.m. Small Business Owners: Christine Koronides, Senior Advisor for Economic Policy, National Economic Council
    5:00 p.m. African Americans: Danielle Gray, Deputy Assistant to the President for Economic Policy
    6:00 p.m. Asian American Pacific Islanders: Chris Lu, Assistant to the President and Cabinet Secretary
    TBD Youth: Administration official to be announced
    .
    nothing about Georgia

  5. avatar
    mimi January 23, 2012 at 1:02 pm #

    I just saw a video of a news report where they interviewed David Farrar. Bad reporting.

    http://clatl.com/freshloaf/archives/2012/01/23/meet-the-georgia-man-who-wants-obama-to-prove-his-citizenship-in-court

    As far as I’m concerned, the judge invited all of this.

  6. avatar
    Geir Smith January 23, 2012 at 1:16 pm #

    ObamaConpsiracy, quit rooting for Obama. You’re like an old dude with no brains. You’ve done too much meth.

    Instead be real. Thomas Jefferson said the citizen’s duty to avoid falling into Tyranny is to criticize the POTUS (US president if you don’t even know what that means.) So how do we put Obama’s feet to the fire to force him to show his documents immediately?

    Stand up and defend the Constitution now against thiefs of the ilk of Obama.

    Stand up for the Truth. Traitor you are.

  7. avatar
    gorefan January 23, 2012 at 1:26 pm #

    Geir Smith: Traitor you are.

    Sam I am.

  8. avatar
    y_p_w January 23, 2012 at 1:30 pm #

    Geir Smith: ObamaConpsiracy, quit rooting for Obama. You’re like an old dude with no brains. You’ve done too much meth.Instead be real. Thomas Jefferson said the citizen’s duty to avoid falling into Tyranny is to criticize the POTUS (US president if you don’t even know what that means.) So how do we put Obama’s feet to the fire to force him to show his documents immediately?Stand up and defend the Constitution now against thiefs of the ilk of Obama.Stand up for the Truth. Traitor you are.

    If you have a thorough reading of the prevailing sentiments of commentators (especially Dr. C), most seem to believe that it wouldn’t be unreasonable for Obama to release a certified copy of his birth record to be admitted as evidence for this hearing. In fact it may be prudent. He would also be advised to enter into the record that he’s been a member of the Illinois legislature, the US Senate, or President of the US for at least the last combined 14 years, which would satisfy the residence requirement. That would document his bona fides to be eligible for the Georgia ballot.

    All the other stuff that the plaintiffs are asking for amounts to a fishing expedition for dirt on the President. The judge has no authority to compel anything, and I doubt he would request that a Superior Court judge do that for him. Any Superior Court judge would be risking being removed for doing anything so stupid as to compel to produce clearly irrelevant evidence.

  9. avatar
    JD Reed January 23, 2012 at 1:37 pm #

    Geir Smith: ObamaConpsiracy, quit rooting for Obama. You’re like an old dude with no brains. You’ve done too much meth.Instead be real. Thomas Jefferson said the citizen’s duty to avoid falling into Tyranny is to criticize the POTUS (US president if you don’t even know what that means.) So how do we put Obama’s feet to the fire to force him to show his documents immediately?Stand up and defend the Constitution now against thiefs of the ilk of Obama.Stand up for the Truth. Traitor you are.

    What documents, Geir Smith? Itemize, please, and tell why each is relevant to the president’s eliigibility. Your shot at Doc’s intelligence is uncalled for. I would bet my last dollar that the Doc would run rings around you in any test of intelligence, if the above post is a fair and accurate example of your abilities.

  10. avatar
    Arthur January 23, 2012 at 1:40 pm #

    First we’re accused of “drinking the kool-aid,” then for “refusing to take the red pill,” and now for doing “too much meth.” Can’t the BM keep it’s meme straight?

    Geir Smith: You’ve done too much meth.

  11. avatar
    G January 23, 2012 at 1:55 pm #

    AGREED! True journalism in practice has been pretty much left for dead in our American media for a long time now.

    What remains is lazy and irresponsible sensationalized insta-reporting, in the rush to publish stories without properly looking into them, in this always online and 24/7 world.

    Infotainment at its worst is just uninformed gossip masquerading as news…

    *sigh*

    J. Potter: *sigh*And, by putting words in order that simply aren’t there, this reflects poorly on a judge who’s just doing his job.Headlines generate traffic … and headline abuse spreads stupid. it would be nice to believe there was a consistent line between mainstream journalism and tabloids. Caveat lector!This will be the biggest fizzle of the birther year. Good thing they have 11 months to out-whimper it!

  12. avatar
    G January 23, 2012 at 1:56 pm #

    FIFY.

    Geir Smith: Stand up and defend the Constitution now against thiefs of the ilk of Birtherism .

  13. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 23, 2012 at 1:57 pm #

    That’s called libel per se. Look it up. Lucky for you Jesus told us not to get tangled up in lawsuits.

    Geir Smith: ObamaConpsiracy, quit rooting for Obama. …. You’ve done too much meth.

  14. avatar
    J. Potter January 23, 2012 at 1:59 pm #

    Geir Smith: P> Thomas Jefferson said the citizen’s duty to avoid falling into Tyranny is to criticize the POTUS (US president if you don’t even know what that means.) So how do we put Obama’s feet to the fire to force him to show his documents immediately

    Wow! What a leap! I believe Geir may have set a new record for the long jump there. :D

    Maintaining an objective view of the President, and being willing to call him to an account when needed, as Jefferson rightly advocated, in no way encompasses dabbling in lurid conspiracies in an attempt to smear the President every waking breath. Mr. Jefferson would look disdainfully on your flight from reason.

  15. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 23, 2012 at 2:01 pm #

    Senator Obama released his birth certificate in 2008. Please try to keep up. Are you part of the kindergarten fetish faction of the birther movement (BM).

    Geir Smith: So how do we put Obama’s feet to the fire to force him to show his documents immediately?

  16. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 23, 2012 at 2:03 pm #

    I’m guilty a little for my own headline “Judge to Obama: See you on Thursday” but I never said anything about an order and my article is clear as to what really happened.

  17. avatar
    Joey January 23, 2012 at 2:05 pm #

    “Senator Obama released his birth certificate in 2008. Please try to keep up.”

    And for the slow readers among the birthers, he re-released it in 2010. There is a link at the Hawaii Department of Health web site to the White House web site where anyone with computer access can see a scanned pdf of the Certification of Live Birth.

  18. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 23, 2012 at 2:08 pm #

    I seem to recall that Jefferson was a pretty dirty politician for his own time. Wasn’t someone who criticized him found face down in 3 feet of water?

    J. Potter: Maintaining an objective view of the President, and being willing to call him to an account when needed, as Jefferson rightly advocated, in no way encompasses dabbling in lurid conspiracies in an attempt to smear the President every waking breath

  19. avatar
    mrlqban January 23, 2012 at 2:09 pm #

    It feels horrible when the mainstream media has no clue doesn’t it? I never heard the Doc complaining about some of the many wrongly reported news of the birther cases of 2008 hmm. Sorry Doc.

  20. avatar
    Paul January 23, 2012 at 2:13 pm #

    I hate to admit it, but this Dean Haskins guy actually comes off as relatively clear-headed. (“Relatively” being the operative word.)

  21. avatar
    Tom Factor January 23, 2012 at 2:24 pm #

    Geir Smith:
    ObamaConpsiracy, quit rooting for Obama. You’re like an old dude with no brains. You’ve done too much meth.

    Instead be real. Thomas Jefferson said the citizen’s duty to avoid falling into Tyranny is to criticize the POTUS (US president if you don’t even know what that means.) So how do we put Obama’s feet to the fire to force him to show his documents immediately?

    Stand up and defend the Constitution now against thiefs of the ilk of Obama.

    Stand up for the Truth. Traitor you are.

    Lol. Seems you have an internet connection, but aren’t quite sure how to use it. There’s this thing called Google….

    No brains indeed.

  22. avatar
    J. Potter January 23, 2012 at 2:35 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I seem to recall that Jefferson was a pretty dirty politician for his own time. Wasn’t someone who criticized him found face down in 3 feet of water?

    I dunno about that, but yes, he was a man of his times. His observation and theorizing about race, particularly about miscegnation, is pretty tough to read. Politics was more dirty and more verbose. I contend that the Jeffersonian ideal that Geir uses here as a rocket-assisted springboard was just that: a raitonal ideal. Not an incitement to slander. Or libel. Or malignancy for malignancy’s sake of any kind! An ideal that, like truly free speech, has taken a long time to realize and mature.

    No doubt Jefferson may have expressed the sentiment as an introduction to all kinds of critiques. The Declaration itself is based on the right of a people to justly criticize its gov’t. But would Jefferson go a’birthin? He’d pay someone else to do it. ;)

    Here’s something on-topic from good ol’TJ, a man who swore off newspapers in his elder days:

    “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed
    than he who reads them; inasmuch as he who knows nothing is
    nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods
    and errors.”

  23. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 23, 2012 at 2:40 pm #

    I have written articles before criticizing the media for inaccurate comments about birthers and overstating the anti-birther case. Looking back over my record, I believe I have been even handed in my treatment of the media. I have left even more comments on media web sites pointing out when they go astray.

    I point to my March, 2011 article titled “Misinformation abounds”

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/03/misinformation-abounds/

    However, I wasn’t following birther lawsuits in any detail in 2008 (the blog only started in December of that year). Did you have a particular 2008 media mistake that you would like to highlight?

    mrlqban: I never heard the Doc complaining about some of the many wrongly reported news of the birther cases of 2008 hmm. Sorry Doc.

  24. avatar
    G January 23, 2012 at 3:23 pm #

    Dr. C has already addressed you on this. But since you made such a weak charge, care to cite any specific examples and explain or defend your position?

    …Or are you just another empty blowhard, casually slinging hollow charges?

    mrlqban: It feels horrible when the mainstream media has no clue doesn’t it? I never heard the Doc complaining about some of the many wrongly reported news of the birther cases of 2008 hmm. Sorry Doc.

  25. avatar
    Lord Basil January 23, 2012 at 3:48 pm #

    Birther canon? Covering up has been part of the Obama/Soetoro canon since the very beginning. Namely, covering up his ineligibility to be POTUS because his father was an alien by foisting to obviously forgered birth certificates upon a gullible mass who may as well have been voting on American Idol.

    I mean, can anyone debunk what the guy is saying below without resorting to ad hominem and personal attacks?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-srh9AO68xc

    Obsolete:
    When the subpoena is finally quashed and Obama does not not make an appearance, birthers will point to those headlines as proof that Obama considers himself above the law, the courts are corrupt, and ask” why is Obama afraid to appear in court?” (the “what is he hiding” crap renewed).
    This will all become part of the birther canon.

  26. avatar
    Scientist January 23, 2012 at 3:53 pm #

    Lord Basil: Namely, covering up his ineligibility to be POTUS because his father was an alien

    He covered up his father’s citizenship by writing a book about it. That’s an act of genius!!!!

    Lord Basil: a gullible mass who may as well have been voting on American Idol.

    So how did you get to be so much smarter than all your fellow citizens? Did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express?

  27. avatar
    Obsolete January 23, 2012 at 3:56 pm #

    How did Obama cover-up the fact his dad was a foreigner by writing a best-selling book about it and releasing his birth certificate which also mentioned that fact? If he forged his BC, why not forge one that would make him “eligible”?
    You make no sense, Lord HeeHaw. Come back when you grow up.

  28. avatar
    J. Potter January 23, 2012 at 4:11 pm #

    Lord Basil: “canon”

    I do not think you know what that means. Your use of the word undermines the crazy you were trying to spill. To make your crazy go, i suggest using “modus operandi” in place of “canon”.

    Lord Basil: Namely, covering up his ineligibility to be POTUS because his father was an alien by foisting to obviously forgered birth certificates upon a gullible mass who may as well have been voting on American Idol.

    Kee-ripes, where to begin?!? :D My favorite error here is the use of a singular “mass”. I imagine a poor, quivering, gelatinous cube, being cruelly foisted upon LOL. Poor, pooooor little guillible mass. Let’s take you home and get you in something warm!

    Firing up the Birther Translatron … “In particular, issuing two forged birth certificates upon a gullible populace in order to cover up the fact that his father’s citizenship status rendered Obama ineligible for the office of the Presidency. A populace too ignorant to distinguish a Presidential election from a televised singing competition.”

    Whew. Can’t get that in one sentence. I tried for ya, Basil, I really did.

    But, ummm, yeah …. correcting the grammar and vocabulary doesn’t cover up the glaring logical error (the ‘forged’ BC clearly states his father was born in Kenya) or your disdain for the American public. Ick.

  29. avatar
    G January 23, 2012 at 4:23 pm #

    Yeah, simple:

    Why anyone would waste time worried about PDFs is beyond me. The whole thing is nothing but a meaningless sideshow and irrelevant argument.

    The only agency that matters here is the OFFICIAL agency in charge of issuing and certifying such documents. They have been quite repeatedly clear on attesting to the data on this document and its chain of custody:

    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html

    BOOM! All your answers right there.

    As to any other arguments, as others here have already repeatedly pointed out to you, the status of Obama’s father being Kenyan was quite out there and open knowledge for a long time. It was clearly stated in his best selling autobiography, which came out way back in the 1990s. It was openly stated and covered all during his 2007/2008 candidacy campaign.

    So there, ALL debunked. End of Story.

    Lord Basil: I mean, can anyone debunk what the guy is saying below without resorting to ad hominem and personal attacks?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-srh9AO68xc

  30. avatar
    y_p_w January 23, 2012 at 4:37 pm #

    G: The only agency that matters here is the OFFICIAL agency in charge of issuing and certifying such documents. They have been quite repeatedly clear on attesting to the data on this document and its chain of custody:

    What’s been so frustrating when dealing with birthers or those swayed by birthers is how they take one little thing and blow that up into something different. I’ve been reading tons of comments, and the amount of irrelevant stuff just goes nuts.

    One thing I read was someone who found it odd that the hospital name was listed on Obama’s birth certificate, while this person’s kids had birth certificates for an out of state birth that didn’t state the birth hospital. The real birthers might have had a field day with that. I mean, this person seemed to think there might be something deficient about Obama’s birth certificate **because** it listed the hospital, while that’s what birthers were asking about for nearly three years.

    Then back when the computer generated COLB was the one released, the birthers latched on to the State Dept verbiage that some abstracts might not be valid. I don’t know how many times I read people (incorrectly) comment that Obama’s form wouldn’t even be accepted by the State Dept for passports. I’ve heard of plenty of people from Hawaii who had no problem getting a passport using that type of form.

    Every agency that certifies birth certificates does so in a slightly different way. There’s nothing particular wrong about that. However, I almost wished that Hawaii were like California. In California anyone can obtain a certified “informational” birth certificate that is certified to be accurate as to all the facts on the certificate, but is marked such that one can’t use it as an identity document (i.e. to get a passport or driver license). Since Jon Huntsman Jr. was born in California, it was easy enough for a reporter to get a copy, which was obtained sort of in a mocking tone about how the Obama birth certificate took a life of its own.

  31. avatar
    G January 23, 2012 at 4:49 pm #

    That is the whole point of why such scam artists and denialists have to spend all their time picking at irrelevant nits in the first place.

    The primary evidence and authorities backing it are fairly unimpeachable in this instance. They simply have no solid countering evidence to contradict that – period.

    The argument should be FULL STOP right there.

    So they have to go down irrelevant rabbit holes and distract from the REAL issues and pick at irrelevant nits. Only by distraction to the utterly inconsequential and misleading folks with meaningless minutae can they hope to still sow doubt and confusion, when there isn’t any in the first place…

    y_p_w: What’s been so frustrating when dealing with birthers or those swayed by birthers is how they take one little thing and blow that up into something different. I’ve been reading tons of comments, and the amount of irrelevant stuff just goes nuts.

  32. avatar
    Keith January 23, 2012 at 5:00 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I seem to recall that Jefferson was a pretty dirty politician for his own time. Wasn’t someone who criticized him found face down in 3 feet of water?

    I’m not sure how much of a dirty politician Jefferson was, but it is an interesting historical fact that anybody that criticized him to his face ended up dead.

  33. avatar
    Bill DuBerger January 23, 2012 at 5:01 pm #

    My favorite is the birther who claimed the most recent BC had to be a forgery because PDF’s weren’t around in 1961.

    If it were any more entertaining, there’d have to be a cover charge.

  34. avatar
    G January 23, 2012 at 5:25 pm #

    LOL! *face palm*

    Bill DuBerger: My favorite is the birther who claimed the most recent BC had to be a forgery because PDF’s weren’t around in 1961.If it were any more entertaining, there’d have to be a cover charge.

  35. avatar
    J. Potter January 23, 2012 at 5:37 pm #

    Bill DuBerger: the most recent BC had to be a forgery because PDF’s weren’t around in 1961.

    Oh snap! They’re on to us! Maybe when we went for the fake-looking, real scan of the LFBC instead of the fake, real-looking scan of the LFBC, we made a mistake? Oh well, have to break a few eggs and all.

    Ironically, if given the choice at the time, birthers would have been less suspect of a forgery than the real thing. And they still are ;)

  36. avatar
    y_p_w January 23, 2012 at 6:00 pm #

    Bill DuBerger: My favorite is the birther who claimed the most recent BC had to be a forgery because PDF’s weren’t around in 1961.If it were any more entertaining, there’d have to be a cover charge.

    How about those who go on incessently that the security pattern (i.e. the background of the security paper) is straight while the black text/boxes bend?

  37. avatar
    Geir Smith January 23, 2012 at 6:59 pm #

    G: Geir Smith: Stand up and defend the Constitution now against thiefs of the ilk of Birtherism .

    Birthers have their documents so what’s the issue here? They’re legit.

  38. avatar
    J. Potter January 23, 2012 at 7:02 pm #

    Geir Smith: Don’t say I’m dumb

    Another admission to the Attention Deficit Ward. Someone please get Mr. Smith a puppy who will love him. And give he and his new puppy friend some alone time with shiny toys.

  39. avatar
    Geir Smith January 23, 2012 at 7:06 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: That’s called libel per se. Look it up. Lucky for you Jesus told us not to get tangled up in lawsuits.

    Geir Smith: ObamaConpsiracy, quit rooting for Obama. …. You’ve done too much meth.

    Think you’re protesting a bit too much. You’ve been claiming the birthers are idiots for a few years now – but suddenly became sad that finally a judge is standing up to Tyranny. Not only that, but you’re getting cranky. You know the Birthers are discussing about whether Obama’s to be charged with treason or Miiprision or what? The issue isn’t whether the documents are produced but that the general public doesn’t understand this issue. They just think: “Huh? Why’s he not just showing the damn docs?” They typically think: “I’ve got my own docs, doesn’t Obama have his?”

    Doc, try to think like the man of the street now.
    It’s ugly out there. Stop smearing people you don’t know like the Birthers.

  40. avatar
    Geir Smith January 23, 2012 at 7:07 pm #

    J. Potter: Another admission to the Attention Deficit Ward. Someone please get Mr. Smith a puppy who will love him. And give he and his new puppy friend some alone time with shiny toys.

    Dumb remark.

  41. avatar
    Geir Smith January 23, 2012 at 7:09 pm #

    J. Potter: Wow! What a leap! I believe Geir may have set a new record for the long jump there. :D

    Maintaining an objective view of the President, and being willing to call him to an account when needed, as Jefferson rightly advocated, in no way encompasses dabbling in lurid conspiracies in an attempt to smear the President every waking breath. Mr. Jefferson would look disdainfully on your flight from reason.

    Let the experts talk at the trial Thursday.

  42. avatar
    Geir Smith January 23, 2012 at 7:14 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Senator Obama released his birth certificate in 2008. Please try to keep up. Are you part of the kindergarten fetish faction of the birther movement (BM).

    Geir Smith: So how do we put Obama’s feet to the fire to force him to show his documents immediately?

    Judge Malihi is still asking for it, and not some Internet Photoshoppe. Malihi’s not an idiot, he’s a state Chief judge. Let’s see how he comes off on nationalwide live coverage of the event first then we’ll talk to whoever is still standing. Personally I doubt this issue will still be around by Thursday because CBS for one is making this headline news at it’s Atlanta outlet. By Thursday this will have reached the whole world, both East to Europe and West to Asia. “Obama in court” is big big news. By Thursady this will be out of control, the genius out of the bottle, Pandora’s Box opened. By the trial’s time I think new people in the insider secrecy will come forth.

  43. avatar
    Geir Smith January 23, 2012 at 7:16 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I’m guilty a little for my own headline “Judge to Obama: See you on Thursday” but I never said anything about an order and my article is clear as to what really happened.

    Dean Haskins has swallowed his jealousy of Orly Taitz and is chipping in to pay for live coverage.

  44. avatar
    Geir Smith January 23, 2012 at 7:17 pm #

    Joey: “Senator Obama released his birth certificate in 2008. Please try to keep up.”

    And for the slow readers among the birthers, he re-released it in 2010. There is a link at the Hawaii Department of Health web site to the White House web site where anyone with computer access can see a scanned pdf of the Certification of Live Birth.

    Malihi wants to hear Mara Zabest. Computer Expert. And forget the computer docs people – we want the original paper doc.

  45. avatar
    JoZeppy January 23, 2012 at 7:18 pm #

    Geir Smith: Let the experts talk at the trial Thursday.

    Ummm….there is no “trial.” It’s an administrative hearing which results in a recommendation to the Secretary of State.

    And assure you, none of Orly’s experts will make it past three questions of voir dire.

  46. avatar
    Geir Smith January 23, 2012 at 7:19 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I seem to recall that Jefferson was a pretty dirty politician for his own time. Wasn’t someone who criticized him found face down in 3 feet of water?

    He had felons executed. They voted into law forbidding to criticize the POTUS. Jefferson fought them and had them executed for reinstoring Tyranny aka Royal privilege.

  47. avatar
    y_p_w January 23, 2012 at 7:22 pm #

    Geir Smith: Judge Malihi is still asking for it, and not some Internet Photoshoppe. Malihi’s not an idiot, he’s a state Chief judge. Let’s see how he comes off on nationalwide live coverage of the event first then we’ll talk to whoever is still standing. Personally I doubt this issue will still be around by Thursday because CBS for one is making this headline news at it’s Atlanta outlet. By Thursday this will have reached the whole world, both East to Europe and West to Asia. “Obama in court” is big big news. By Thursady this will be out of control, the genius out of the bottle, Pandora’s Box opened. By the trial’s time I think new people in the insider secrecy will come forth.

    A) He’s not the chief judge. He’s the deputy chief judge, which makes him the second in command. He also has limited powers compared to a superior court judge. He also doesn’t make decisions per se. He makes recommendations to state agencies.

    B) He’s not asking for anything. It would be up for the plaintiff’s attorneys to argue the case. It would be up to him to admit evidence.

    C) A pretty simple reading of Georgia’s rules of evidence make it clear that a certified birth certificate would easily be admitted as evidence, and there’s almost nothing the plaintiffs could do to shoot that down. If they bring their so-called PDF experts, the judge will certainly rule their testimony to be irrelevant.

  48. avatar
    JoZeppy January 23, 2012 at 7:23 pm #

    Geir Smith: Malihi wants to hear Mara Zabest. Computer Expert. And forget the computer docs people – we want the original paper doc.

    I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Mara Zabest has nothing relevant to testify about.

    But you are right about one thing….this will end pretty quickly when Obama’s attorney hands Judge Malihi the same paper copy photographed by Daily Kos back in 2008.

  49. avatar
    Geir Smith January 23, 2012 at 7:24 pm #

    mrlqban: It feels horrible when the mainstream media has no clue doesn’t it? I never heard the Doc complaining about some of the many wrongly reported news of the birther cases of 2008 hmm. Sorry Doc.

    ROFLMAO! Doc’s a lonely man. ROFLMAO!

  50. avatar
    Geir Smith January 23, 2012 at 7:26 pm #

    JoZeppy: Ummm….there is no “trial.” It’s an administrative hearing which results in a recommendation to the Secretary of State.

    And assure you, none of Orly’s experts will make it past three questions of voir dire.

    The issue is of Obama showing or not.

  51. avatar
    J. Potter January 23, 2012 at 7:26 pm #

    The cinemax version of American history LOL! The Sedition Act episode was unfortunate enough w/o these ghoulish additions.

    Geir Smith: They voted into law forbidding to criticize the POTUS.

  52. avatar
    JoZeppy January 23, 2012 at 7:28 pm #

    Geir Smith: The issue is of Obama showing or not.

    Won’t happen. Check the White House calendar.

  53. avatar
    JoZeppy January 23, 2012 at 7:30 pm #

    Geir Smith: The issue is of Obama showing or not.

    There really isn’t much that Obama can testify to that is relevant either….unless you’re contesting that he hasn’t been in the country long enough, but that can be established without his testimony.

  54. avatar
    Geir Smith January 23, 2012 at 7:37 pm #

    JoZeppy: Won’t happen. Check the White House calendar.

    Mario Puzzo is famous, says Obama must 1. show up or 2. may face contempt of court which garners a fine, a jail time in Georgia law.

    Famous commentator Phil (everybody in the know knows Phil) from RightSideofLife.com also says so. He says the main issue is that Obama show the birth certificate. He seems to think the tipping point from where there’s no return for Obama is that if he doesn’t now show it, then he’ll be naked.

  55. avatar
    Daniel January 23, 2012 at 7:38 pm #

    Geir Smith: Don’t say I’m dumb

    If you don’t wish to be ridiculed, stop being ridiculous.

  56. avatar
    Geir Smith January 23, 2012 at 7:42 pm #

    Daniel: If you don’t wish to be ridiculed, stop being ridiculous.

    Well said. What was the topic? I forgot with all this. Remind us please.

  57. avatar
    Geir Smith January 23, 2012 at 7:44 pm #

    Paul: I hate to admit it, but this Dean Haskins guy actually comes off as relatively clear-headed. (“Relatively” being the operative word.)

    He’s paying for half of the expenses for live coverage at the (3) GA trial ‘s.

  58. avatar
    G January 23, 2012 at 7:45 pm #

    LOL! Oh man, your lame attempt at performance art is funny…in a low budget B-movie type of way.

    Yeah, the Birthers have been shouting “treason” and “misprison” since day one, Einstein. That’s what they do. That’s the common lazy refuge of paranoid idiots. *duh*

    Sorry, but if you were a serious person and not just a parody act here, you’d be able to read the posts here and grasp that other than trying to understand some legal specifics of what is happening, there is NO question by the non-Birthers here of what the outcome of this whole GA clown show will be – same as always – another defeat for the Birthers.

    Judge standing up to Tyranny… LOL! That was funny. Sorry, but anyone still ignorant enough to ask why he is not showing the “damn docs” simply hasn’t been been paying attention or is full of it. The BC has been published and put out there for all to see…and has been for years now. If they were really curious, it would take 5 seconds for them to find it on the Internet. If they are too dumb to discern between official sites and all the schlock rumour-mill tabloid trash on the internet, then that is their own problem.

    No other President or Presidential candidate *EVER* put their BC out there before. So sorry, it is not a fair question, when someone only asks it for him and never cared about the issue before that…( or for the most part, since that either). Nor is the silly argument of “I got my documents” going to fly to any non-idiot either. Really? You got your documents? Where are they published on the internet? Let’s see them?… Sorry, but any time you or the President has need to use such documents (such as renewing a car license), you simply provide that official document ONLY to that official agency for verification and that is it. That info remains private and doesn’t get published online for the world to see. What you are asking for is to treat Obama to a different standard than everyone else. *duh*. What a dumb argument you tools make… seriously!

    Geir Smith: Think you’re protesting a bit too much. You’ve been claiming the birthers are idiots for a few years now – but suddenly became sad that finally a judge is standing up to Tyranny. Not only that, but you’re getting cranky. You know the Birthers are discussing about whether Obama’s to be charged with treason or Miiprision or what? The issue isn’t whether the documents are produced but that the general public doesn’t understand this issue. They just think: “Huh? Why’s he not just showing the damn docs?” They typically think: “I’ve got my own docs, doesn’t Obama have his?”Doc, try to think like the man of the street now.It’s ugly out there. Stop smearing people you don’t know like the Birthers.

  59. avatar
    Geir Smith January 23, 2012 at 7:46 pm #

    y_p_w: A) He’s not the chief judge. He’s the deputy chief judge, which makes him the second in command. He also has limited powers compared to a superior court judge. He also doesn’t make decisions per se. He makes recommendations to state agencies.

    B) He’s not asking for anything. It would be up for the plaintiff’s attorneys to argue the case. It would be up to him to admit evidence.

    C) A pretty simple reading of Georgia’s rules of evidence make it clear that a certified birth certificate would easily be admitted as evidence, and there’s almost nothing the plaintiffs could do to shoot that down. If they bring their so-called PDF experts, the judge will certainly rule their testimony to be irrelevant.

    It’s all over folks. The MSM can’t cover the trial-s (3 trials in GA on Thursday) with getting stuttering fits on TV

  60. avatar
    Geir Smith January 23, 2012 at 7:47 pm #

    y_p_w: A) He’s not the chief judge. He’s the deputy chief judge, which makes him the second in command. He also has limited powers compared to a superior court judge. He also doesn’t make decisions per se. He makes recommendations to state agencies.

    B) He’s not asking for anything. It would be up for the plaintiff’s attorneys to argue the case. It would be up to him to admit evidence.

    C) A pretty simple reading of Georgia’s rules of evidence make it clear that a certified birth certificate would easily be admitted as evidence, and there’s almost nothing the plaintiffs could do to shoot that down. If they bring their so-called PDF experts, the judge will certainly rule their testimony to be irrelevant.

    The trials are already over before the gavel first falls. The media rules before the verdict. Obama’s lynched by the media already now read the news. THey say: “Obama in court! What the forke!”

  61. avatar
    Geir Smith January 23, 2012 at 7:53 pm #

    G: LOL! Oh man, your lame attempt at performance art is funny…in a low budget B-movie type of way.

    Yeah, the Birthers have been shouting “treason” and “misprison” since day one, Einstein. That’s what they do. That’s the common lazy refuge of paranoid idiots. *duh*

    Sorry, but if you were a serious person and not just a parody act here, you’d be able to read the posts here and grasp that other than trying to understand some legal specifics of what is happening, there is NO question by the non-Birthers here of what the outcome of this whole GA clown show will be – same as always – another defeat for the Birthers.

    Judge standing up to Tyranny… LOL! That was funny. Sorry, but anyone still ignorant enough to ask why he is not showing the “damn docs” simply hasn’t been been paying attention or is full of it. The BC has been published and put out there for all to see…and has been for years now. If they were really curious, it would take 5 seconds for them to find it on the Internet. If they are too dumb to discern between official sites and all the schlock rumour-mill tabloid trash on the internet, then that is their own problem.

    No other President or Presidential candidate *EVER* put their BC out there before. So sorry, it is not a fair question, when someone only asks it for him and never cared about the issue before that…( or for the most part, since that either). Nor is the silly argument of “I got my documents” going to fly to any non-idiot either. Really? You got your documents? Where are they published on the internet? Let’s see them?… Sorry, but any time you or the President has need to use such documents (such as renewing a car license), you simply provide that official document ONLY to that official agency for verification and that is it. That info remains private and doesn’t get published online for the world to see. What you are asking for is to treat Obama to a different standard than everyone else. *duh*. What a dumb argument you tools make… seriously!

    He must prove he’s eligible or not be accepted on ballot. Period. The orignal paper doc only is accepted. He’s got it. In “Dreams of my Father” he said he found his birth certificate, social security photos etc… in a box at his grandmother’s house, folded into a book. He found it, write it in his biography; and now we want to see it. What part of that can’t people understand? Not too much to get their heads around, is it?

  62. avatar
    Daniel January 23, 2012 at 7:57 pm #

    Geir Smith: The orignal paper doc only is accepted

    I wish for your sake that were true…. unfortunately, it’s not. The COLB is perfectly acceptable.

  63. avatar
    G January 23, 2012 at 7:58 pm #

    Zabest can show up. She won’t be admitted to testify to anything – neither she nor any of these other “Birther Experts” meet the basic standards for court room testimony, sorry.

    More importantly, silly nonsense arguments about irrelevant PDFs won’t be entertained – Period. If it comes down to the court asking to see an actual birth certificate, OF COURSE only a certified paper copy would suffice. *duh*. That is what we’ve been saying all along. This whole set of Birther obsessions on online image stuff was always a cheap parlor trick dodge away from any meaningful point or argument.

    Geir Smith: Malihi wants to hear Mara Zabest. Computer Expert. And forget the computer docs people – we want the original paper doc.

    Except that Obama will be nowhere near GA or that court room hearing on Thursday. One has to be completely off their rocker to believe otherwise.

    Sorry, but even infotainment news outlets look bad and only end up with egg on their face when they hype stories that never materialize…

    Geir Smith: “Obama in court” is big big news.

    The only “Expert” that might be called to the stand to talk about anything is someone from the DNC to attest to the paperwork and the process. The Birthers sure don’t have anyone that qualifies under the purview at hand as “experts” in any real world sense of the term. Sorry.

    Geir Smith: Let the experts talk at the trial Thursday.

    Yes, you certainly have been full of dumb remarks. …and so over-the-top with them that, despite the possibility of Poe’s Law here, I’m fairly convinced you are just trolling and not for real.

    Geir Smith: Dumb remark.

  64. avatar
    Daniel January 23, 2012 at 7:58 pm #

    Geir Smith: He found it, write it in his biography; and now we want to see it. What part of that can’t people understand? Not too much to get their heads around, is it?

    How about you inform us, which other Presidents in history have you demanded any of this stuff from?

  65. avatar
    y_p_w January 23, 2012 at 8:00 pm #

    G: No other President or Presidential candidate *EVER* put their BC out there before.

    To be fair, the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library does have a certified copy of Ronnie’s birth certificate from the State of Illinois. That’s about all I’ve every heard of it happening.

    However, that was obtained after Reagan was out of office. It was also filed when he was 31. Through some strange happenstance, the doctor who delivered (or so they claim) him was around at that time to attest to the birth (probably pulled his records). I fully expect that by the time my kid is 31, the attending physician (in his 60s) will either be deceased or incapable of signing anything, although the attendant didn’t certify the birth – a hospital administrator did.

    I’m also wondering how legal it would be as an identity document. They mounted it on some sort of museum-style backing and might have even laminated it.

  66. avatar
    J. Potter January 23, 2012 at 8:04 pm #

    Arthur: Um . . . listen, don’t be too harsh on Geir. I just watched some of his video blogs and the man is clearly . . . disturbed.

    No kiddin’! He isn’t understanding the “quote” feature, and taking his own words from less than 30 min ago as coming from others! Poor guy won’t remember any of this by Thursday.

  67. avatar
    Geir Smith January 23, 2012 at 8:05 pm #

    G: Zabest can show up. She won’t be admitted to testify to anything – neither she nor any of these other “Birther Experts” meet the basic standards for court room testimony, sorry.

    By Thursday the world will be all over this story in the media worldwide East to West. All the media Obots have gone white already and are starting to severly stutter and sputter. Today they were explaining to people who Saul Alinsky was! ROFLMAO! can’t wait till they explain who Che Guevara is and what relation he has to Bill Ayers ROFLMAO! And to HAMAS in GAZA who are Guevarists. He’s the Founder who taught all terrotrists “Urban guerrialla warfare” ROFLMAO!!!

  68. avatar
    G January 23, 2012 at 8:07 pm #

    *LMAO*

    This has to be intentional snark. That’s your argument…serioulsy? Because some other Birther clowns told you so on their little hobby websites? …And because those random folks with a long streak at failed predictions say something…somehow that Trumps what the actual official White House schedule shows… LMAO!

    Yeah… I’m not buying that you actually believe that either. You should go peddle your troll act on the Birther sites… I’m sure their gullible enough to go along with your crazy talk easily. As mentioned before, Poe’s Law is certainly in play here…

    Geir Smith: Mario Puzzo is famous, says Obama must 1. show up or 2. may face contempt of court which garners a fine, a jail time in Georgia law.Famous commentator Phil (everybody in the know knows Phil) from RightSideofLife.com also says so. He says the main issue is that Obama show the birth certificate. He seems to think the tipping point from where there’s no return for Obama is that if he doesn’t now show it, then he’ll be naked.

  69. avatar
    Geir Smith January 23, 2012 at 8:09 pm #

    Obsolete: How did Obama cover-up the fact his dad was a foreigner by writing a best-selling book about it and releasing his birth certificate which also mentioned that fact? If he forged his BC, why not forge one that would make him “eligible”?
    You make no sense, Lord HeeHaw. Come back when you grow up.

    There’s no reason Obama can’t aLSO show the original paper BC along with the certifications (Long and short forms). What’s on Internet are not certificates but certifications.

  70. avatar
    y_p_w January 23, 2012 at 8:10 pm #

    Daniel: I wish for your sake that were true…. unfortunately, it’s not. The COLB is perfectly acceptable.

    Absolutely. People lose certified copies all the time. I’ve heard of some who lost their birth certificates during natural disasters and weren’t able to get replacements that were photocopies of the original (although they might not have tried hard enough) That’s why pretty much no government agency gives the original to the recipient. If you have to use a certified birth certificate as an identity/age document, no government agency is going to care that it’s the same one that was used before for some other purpose. I mentioned it’s possible to use one and have it shredded, but I wouldn’t do that.

    There are some identity documents that are a bit harder to get more than one copy. Someone with a US Cerficiate of Naturalization is only supposed to have one copy at a time. A replacement can be issued, but only if a previous version is reported lost/stolen. I think that used to be the case with the Consular Report of Birth Abroad, but I think the State Dept has changed their policy on that. I asked the college I graduated from if I could get a duplicate diploma so I could hang it in my office, and was told that a replacement was only issued if the original was lost/stolen.

  71. avatar
    Joey January 23, 2012 at 9:46 pm #

    Geir Smith: There’s no reason Obama can’t aLSO show the original paper BC along with the certifications (Long and short forms). What’s on Internet are not certificates but certifications.

    There is the problem in that Obama does not own or possess his ORIGINAL birth certificate, nor do you, nor I, nor anyone else. In Obama’s case, the state of Hawaii owns and possesses the original and their state laws don’t allow the release of the original to anybody for any reason, ever. The best that Obama can get and the best that any judge can get is a “certified COPY.”
    Since the state of Hawaii currently provides a link to the long form copy that is on the White House web site from the Hawaii Department of Health web site, I think we can surmise that the state of Hawaii stands by the long form copy that they issued to Barack Obama.

  72. avatar
    Joey January 23, 2012 at 9:51 pm #

    Does anybody posting here know for a fact whether Barack Obama was ever actually personally served with a subpoena to appear in Georgia for the administrative hearing?

  73. avatar
    y_p_w January 23, 2012 at 10:00 pm #

    Joey: There is the problem in that Obama does not own or possess his ORIGINAL birth certificate, nor do you, nor I, nor anyone else. In Obama’s case, the state of Hawaii owns and possesses the original and their state laws don’t allow the release of the original to anybody for any reason, ever. The best that Obama can get and the best that any judge can get is a “certified COPY.”
    Since the state of Hawaii currently provides a link to the long form copy that is on the White House web site from the Hawaii Department of Health web site, I think we can surmise that the state of Hawaii stands by the long form copy that they issued to Barack Obama.

    The evidence laws of every state (as well as the Full Faith & Credit clause of the US Constitution would pretty much compel any court to accept a certified copy as it were the originally. Theoretically it might be possible to impeach a record, but it’s going to take a lot more than a bunch of crank theories, which the judge will easily shoot down.

  74. avatar
    y_p_w January 23, 2012 at 10:05 pm #

    Joey:
    Does anybody posting here know for a fact whether Barack Obama was ever actually personally served with a subpoena to appear in Georgia for the administrative hearing?

    Jablonski apparently didn’t attach a copy of the subpoena, but there’s pretty good evidence that Orly served it by mailing it to Jablonski’s office. The judge’s denial of the motion to quash makes note that he considered it properly served, since the court’s rules are that a subpoena merely has to be personally served, mailed (w/ certified or registered mail receipt), or overnighted to the attorney of record.

    That sounds unlike most courts I know of. I thought in most courts, a subpoena requires several attempts at personal service before substituted service can be attempted. Who wrote up the rule?

  75. avatar
    G January 23, 2012 at 10:28 pm #

    Unfortunately, I can’t say the same about you…

    Geir Smith: You’ve impressed me a lot. You say very logical and deep things.

  76. avatar
    Joey January 23, 2012 at 10:30 pm #

    y_p_w: Jablonski apparently didn’t attach a copy of the subpoena, but there’s pretty good evidence thatOrly served it by mailing it to Jablonski’s office.The judge’s denial of the motion to quash makes note that he considered it properly served, since the court’s rules are that a subpoena merely has to be personally served, mailed (w/ certified or registered mail receipt), or overnighted to the attorney of record.

    That sounds unlike most courts I know of.I thought in most courts, a subpoena requires several attempts at personal service before substituted service can be attempted.Who wrote up the rule?

    Thanks for such a clear explanation of the legal situation.

  77. avatar
    Judge Mental January 23, 2012 at 10:35 pm #

    Joey: Does anybody posting here know for a fact whether Barack Obama was ever actually personally served with a subpoena to appear in Georgia for the administrative hearing?

    I don’t see how a motion to quash can would be submitted to the ALJ re a subpoena that hasn’t been served, so it’s pretty obvious that a subpoena for Obama was almost certainly received by Jablonski.

    On the question of whether the delivery of the subpoena to Jablonski constitutes valid service on Obama, IANAL but would just confirm that so far all of the most experienced lawyers on Fogbow are in agreement that it meets the appropriate Georgia rules re service on an out of State defendant represented in Georgia in these circumstances.

    All are similarly agreed that it is nevertheless unenforceable by this ALJ.

  78. avatar
    mrlqban January 23, 2012 at 10:46 pm #

    This news is spreading like wildfire. Virtually all the lame ass media reporters, local newspapers, blogs, tabloids, online editorials, are copying and pasting the version that the Dr. complaint about. They still report that the judge has ordered Obama to appear in court. Regardless if you think that this will be a circus or not, I just can’t stop laughing at the publicity of this story like this was the OJ trial. Relax fellas, it’s just an administrative hearing and the worst that can happen is that the Secretary of State removes Obama from the ballot.

    Here’s a slight different version Doc. http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/news/local_news/Judge-Orders-President-to-Appear-at-Hearing-in-Ga-20120123-pm-pk

  79. avatar
    y_p_w January 23, 2012 at 10:46 pm #

    Judge Mental: I don’t see how a motion to quash can would be submitted to the ALJ re a subpoena that hasn’t been served, so it’s pretty obvious that a subpoena for Obama was almost certainly received by Jablonski.

    On the question of whether the delivery of the subpoena to Jablonski constitutes valid service on Obama, IANAL but would just confirm that so far all of the most experienced lawyers on Fogbow are in agreement that it meets the appropriate Georgia rules re service on an out of State defendant represented in Georgia in these circumstances.

    All are similarly agreed that it is nevertheless unenforceable by this ALJ.

    http://www.osah.ga.gov/documents/procedures/administrative-rules-osah.pdf

    616-1-2-.19 Subpoenas; Notices to Produce. Amended.

    (4) A subpoena may be served at any place within Georgia and by any sheriff, by a sheriff’s deputy, or by any other person not less than eighteen (18) years of age. Proof of service may be shown by certificate endorsed on a copy of the subpoena. Subpoenas may also be served by registered or certified mail, and the return receipt shall constitute prima facie proof of service. Service upon a party may be made by serving the party’s counsel of record. Fees and mileage shall be paid to the recipient of a subpoena in accordance with O.C.G.A. § 24-10-24.

    This seems a bit different than what I’m used to. In my state, service can’t be performed by someone named in a petition, but these rules sound as if Orly could actually knock on a door and say “You’ve been served.” I dealt with a process server once, and he said was actually his line.

  80. avatar
    richCares January 23, 2012 at 10:50 pm #

    WACKALOON – I recall that one off Geir Smith’s focuses was that Obama is the anti-Christ and that a lottery ticket of 666 was the winning number within days of Obama’s election. Extremely wacked out idividual, he needs a jacket with very long sleeves, you know the one. I believe that ticket won 100.00, was not a big win.

  81. avatar
    Keith January 23, 2012 at 10:51 pm #

    Geir Smith: The issue is of Obama showing or not.

    I thought the issue was whether or not Obama was eligible to appear on the Georgia Primary ballot.

    Silly me.

  82. avatar
    Keith January 23, 2012 at 10:53 pm #

    Arthur: Geir, I wish you the best. I hope everything goes well for you in the coming year.

    Yes, I almost forgot: Kung Hei Fat Choy everyone!

  83. avatar
    Arthur January 23, 2012 at 11:01 pm #

    Yeah, I get your point. The birther movement is a house of mirrors in which you never know whether you’re seeing a grotesque distortion of reality, or a grotesque facsimile of real life.

    G: but the nuttiness from this clown posting as “Geir Smith” comes across as so over-the-top in presentation that I have a difficult time believing we’re dealing with that much of a nut… instead of just some bored troll kid who gets his kicks posing as a loon.

  84. avatar
    JPotter January 23, 2012 at 11:02 pm #

    richCares: that a lottery ticket of 666 was the winning number within days of Obama’s election.

    Yes, what are the odds that, amongst all the pick 3’ lotteries in the world, at least one of them came up 666 “within a few days” of any given day? I have no clue how many lotteries there are, but I feel safe in saying it’s a weekly occurrence. Soooo … the gods are speaking to us on a weekly or better basis? Where the hell ( ;) ) are we gonna putt all them Antichrists?

  85. avatar
    y_p_w January 23, 2012 at 11:08 pm #

    Keith: I thought the issue was whether or not Obama was eligible to appear on the Georgia Primary ballot.

    Silly me.

    Of course you’re being silly. This is all about being able to issue subpoenas for every document the birthers ever asked to see. This is about getting an administrative court judge (sort of the school cops [i.e. not ready for the big time] of the Georgia court system).

    I looked up California’s administrative courts rules, and they do have a subpoena form. It specifically states that failure to appear could be punished with contempt of court. Anyone called as a witness is also required to be paid witness fees and mileage paid for by the requestor. It’s also unsigned, and I’m thinking it would have to specifically be signed by the judge or a clerk.

  86. avatar
    Daniel January 23, 2012 at 11:08 pm #

    Geir Smith: What’s on Internet are not certificates but certifications.

    Do you actually read what you type before you hit the post button?

    Are you seriously trying to tell us that a certificate is not a certification of that which it certifies?

    Really?

    Seriously?

  87. avatar
    Arthur January 23, 2012 at 11:09 pm #

    Thank you! And a happy new year to you, too.

    Keith: Kung Hei Fat Choy

  88. avatar
    y_p_w January 23, 2012 at 11:13 pm #

    Didn’t finish the sarcasm.

    It’s about getting an administrative court judge to somehow sic Georgia law enforcement (I’m not sure who would serve this purpose) on the White House to do battle with the Secret Service to haul President Obama’s sorry butt to the Fulton County Courthouse this Thursday.

    Even if they don’t win this case, I think the birthers got quite a bit of what they wanted, which is negative publicity for Obama and a few moral “victories” such as a failure to quash a subpoena.

  89. avatar
    G January 23, 2012 at 11:19 pm #

    In terms of this hearing, the Democratic Party of Georgia must prove that his met the minimum criteria for eligibility on their ballot, yes. THAT is all this hearing is really about.

    Obama won’t be there – period. Either the Party or legal representation for them or Obama can address any questions to that effect. They might not even need to provide ANY birth certificate at all to satisfy eligibility – a simple signed affidavit as part of the application process attesting to meeting the requirements might suffice.

    If they do need a document, then ANY official certified paper copy of his HI BC will do. That is after all what a certified copy is.

    You are going down some weird irrelevant path worrying or caring about the copy that he happened to mention coming across years earlier when he wrote his book. Who knows or cares what happened to that particular certified copy. (and YES – they are ALL certified copies – NOT the original… no one has their original document… *duh*). That is the whole point to what a certified copy is.

    If you lose, damage or otherwise need additional official copies, all you have to do is contact the appropriate authority for issuing your particular BC, follow the proper process and pay the proper fee and voila – you get another certified copy — JUST AS GOOD as any certified copy you had before. Just because someone had a copy of a document in their possession years ago doesn’t mean they still have it or it remains in usable condition today. Simple as that.

    A certified copy is a certified copy is a certified copy. Yes – those certified copies are all paper copies. Have you grasped this yet? *sigh*

    Sorry, but what part about this can’t YOU seem to understand? It certainly is not too much for you to get YOUR head around, is it? …

    Geir Smith: He must prove he’s eligible or not be accepted on ballot. Period. The orignal paper doc only is accepted. He’s got it. In “Dreams of my Father” he said he found his birth certificate, social security photos etc… in a box at his grandmother’s house, folded into a book. He found it, write it in his biography; and now we want to see it. What part of that can’t people understand? Not too much to get their heads around, is it?

  90. avatar
    Judge Mental January 23, 2012 at 11:22 pm #

    Geir Smith: What’s on Internet are not certificates but certifications.

    Brilliant! But hold on……I wonder why both COLB and LONG FORM contain the words “This certificate…….”

  91. avatar
    y_p_w January 23, 2012 at 11:23 pm #

    Daniel: Do you actually read what you type before you hit the post button?

    Are you seriously trying to tell us that a certificate is not a certification of that which it certifies?

    Really?

    Seriously?

    No – he’s saying that the only acceptable document is the supposed folded copy that was found in a book and mentioned in his autobiography. Which is of course a steaming pile of poo.

    When it comes to a certified copy of a birth certificate from any US state or territory, any copy is as legally valid as any other copy for any purpose where a birth certificate is useful, with a few limited exceptions (i.e. Puerto Rico before Oct. 1, 2010, Texas short forms due to midwife fraud, California short forms due to the ease of counterfeiting) where specific forms are considered untrustworthy.

    If Obama were to have a certified copy of his Hawaii birth certificate made available for his attorney to present this Thursday, it doesn’t matter if it’s a photostat from the 1960s, a typed abstract from the 60s/70s, a photocopy from the 90s, or a COLB printed any time from 10 years ago to the day before the hearing. The would all establish his birth name, the date/time of birth, and that he was born in Honolulu.

  92. avatar
    G January 23, 2012 at 11:30 pm #

    See…it is wacky and over-the-top statements like this that just *scream* parody troll… I mean is it possible you really do suffer from such meglomaniacal delusions of grandeur… I guess… but often such people get mental health treatment and medication to deal with that…

    Geir Smith: I’m the world authority on the deity. We can start by enumerating the mistakes and usurpation of the deity done by the ugly stupid Dalai Lama.

  93. avatar
    y_p_w January 23, 2012 at 11:31 pm #

    Judge Mental: Brilliant! But hold on……I wonder why both COLB and LONG FORM contain the words “This certificate…….”

    It doesn’t actually say that. It mentions that the document is either a true copy of an abstract of “the record on file”.

    I CERTIFY THAT THIS IS A TRUE COPY OR ABSTRACT OF THE RECORD ON FILE IN THE HAWAII STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH.

    However, the bottom of the COLB says “ANY ALTERATIONS INVALIDATE THIS CERTIFICATE”. The 2007 form said “CERTIFICATION OF LIVE BIRTH”, while the current version says “CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH”

  94. avatar
    G January 23, 2012 at 11:43 pm #

    More importantly, there is NO reason he needs to….

    Geir Smith: There’s no reason Obama can’t aLSO show the original paper BC along with the certifications (Long and short forms).

    NO, what is on the internet is an IMAGE of the certified paper copy. *duh*

    Geir Smith: What’s on Internet are not certificates but certifications.

  95. avatar
    G January 23, 2012 at 11:53 pm #

    On this, we agree…

    mrlqban: Regardless if you think that this will be a circus or not, I just can’t stop laughing at the publicity of this story like this was the OJ trial. Relax fellas, it’s just an administrative hearing and the worst that can happen is that the Secretary of State removes Obama from the ballot.

  96. avatar
    G January 24, 2012 at 12:09 am #

    Loved your illustrative description!

    Arthur: Yeah, I get your point. The birther movement is a house of mirrors in which you never know whether you’re seeing a grotesque distortion of reality, or a grotesque facsimile of real life.

  97. avatar
    G January 24, 2012 at 12:12 am #

    Overblown. A fleeting bit of hype that easily gets forgotten, like everything else in the newscycle.

    Sorry, but stories that amount to nothing when the event comes along just fizzle…

    y_p_w: Even if they don’t win this case, I think the birthers got quite a bit of what they wanted, which is negative publicity for Obama and a few moral “victories” such as a failure to quash a subpoena.

  98. avatar
    Jamese777 January 24, 2012 at 12:13 am #

    y_p_w: It doesn’t actually say that.It mentions that the document is either a true copy of an abstract of “the record on file”.

    I CERTIFY THAT THIS IS A TRUE COPY OR ABSTRACT OF THE RECORD ON FILE IN THE HAWAII STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH.

    However, the bottom of the COLB says “ANY ALTERATIONS INVALIDATE THIS CERTIFICATE”.The 2007 form said “CERTIFICATION OF LIVE BIRTH”, while the current version says “CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH”

    The title of the birth record that is posted on the White House web site and was sent from the state of Hawaii, according to the Director of Health, Loretta Fuddy, is a “Certificate of LIve Birth” from 1961.
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate
    Other people’s copies of 1961 Hawaii Long Forms were also called “Certificates of Live Birth.”
    For example, Susan Nordyke’s: http://www.theobamafile.com/_images/NordykeBirthCertificate.jpg

  99. avatar
    y_p_w January 24, 2012 at 12:32 am #

    Jamese777: The title of the birth record that is posted on the White House web site and was sent from the state of Hawaii, according to the Director of Health, Loretta Fuddy, is a “Certificate of LIve Birth” from 1961.
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate
    Other people’s copies of 1961 Hawaii Long Forms were also called “Certificates of Live Birth.”
    For example, Susan Nordyke’s: http://www.theobamafile.com/_images/NordykeBirthCertificate.jpg

    I’m well versed on all that.

    I was just getting to Judge Mental’s phrase “This Certificate” which sort of made it sound like there was some sort of certification statement that used that phrase, which isn’t anywhere in Hawaii’s certification stamp.

    The “short form” does contain the phrase “THIS CERTIFICATE” in the warning at the bottom about alternations, but it’s not in the long form.

  100. avatar
    Keith January 24, 2012 at 12:38 am #

    y_p_w: It doesn’t actually say that.It mentions that the document is either a true copy of an abstract of “the record on file”.

    I CERTIFY THAT THIS IS A TRUE COPY OR ABSTRACT OF THE RECORD ON FILE IN THE HAWAII STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH.

    However, the bottom of the COLB says “ANY ALTERATIONS INVALIDATE THIS CERTIFICATE”.The 2007 form said “CERTIFICATION OF LIVE BIRTH”, while the current version says “CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH”

    Exactly. The 2007 Standard Form document says “CERTIFICATION OF LIVE BIRTH” on the top security border, and “ANY ALTERATIONS INVALIDATE THIS CERTIFICATE” on the bottom security border. The 2011 non-standard form document does not appear to have the security borders but it has the words “CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH” as the document title.

    Both documents carry a certification: “I CERTIFY THAT THIS IS A TRUE COPY OR ABSTRACT OF THE RECORD ON FILE IN THE HAWAII STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH”.

    One of the documents is an abstract, and the other is a copy. Both are certified to be true. Both documents are examples of a “Certificate”, and both documents contain “Certifications”. This is true whether the piece of paper has either word printed on it or not. What makes it so is whether the piece of paper carries a proper certification or not.

    Since a “Certificate” is a just a document that contains a “Certification” and a Certification is just a statement that someone has Certified that the information on the document is correct it is perfectly reasonable to refer to the document using either word.

    If you are concerned with the piece of paper, then it is a “Certificate” because it carries a “Certification”. If you are concerned with the information on the document, then it is a “Certification” because it has been officially Certified. The English language allows either word to be substituted because they are intrinsically linked and exact literalness is not required in normal conversational discussion, especially when the distinction between the two concepts is so technical and esoteric . Neither concept can occur without the other.

    So what exactly is your problem with the English language?

  101. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 24, 2012 at 1:04 am #

    Yes, they’ve been doing that for years. Is there a point. I gather from your comment that you think that the birther movement is growing or becoming a more serious factor in American life. I don’t.

    All along birthers have sustained themselves on what they don’t have, a birth certificate or a Supreme Court decision. What will they do when those things change from the speculative to the concrete?

    I can call birthers crazy all day, and it’s not libel. It’s not libel because I can make a case that any reasonable person would conclude that birthers are crazy by a reasonable definition of the word crazy. You, however, cannot make a case that I ever used meth. That’s libel per se.

    Geir Smith: You know the Birthers are discussing about whether Obama’s to be charged with treason or Miiprision or what?

  102. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 24, 2012 at 1:06 am #

    Yeh, it’s starting to look like that.

    G: See…it is wacky and over-the-top statements like this that just *scream* parody troll

  103. avatar
    y_p_w January 24, 2012 at 1:30 am #

    Keith:
    If you are concerned with the piece of paper, then it is a “Certificate” because it carries a “Certification”. If you are concerned with the information on the document, then it is a “Certification” because it has been officially Certified. The English language allows either word to be substituted because they are intrinsically linked and exact literalness is not required in normal conversational discussion, especially when the distinction between the two concepts is so technical and esoteric . Neither concept can occur without the other.

    So what exactly is your problem with the English language?

    I’m having way too much fun with this given how much concerns birthers have over mere heading changes (“date accepted” vs “date filed”) or the mere title of a document.

    I think it might blow some birthers minds that the current abstract from Hawaii is titled “CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH”:

    http://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/2010/07/17/hawaiis-new-certificate-of-live-birth/

    There are so many different titles for certified birth records out there:

    Certification of Birth
    Certified Birth Record
    Certification of Live Birth
    Certificate of Live Birth
    Certificate of Birth
    Birth Certificate
    Birth Certification
    Birth Record
    Certified Transcript of Birth (NYC has this one)
    Report of Birth (this is an old title from Illinois)
    Standard Certificate of Birth (from an old California form)
    Certified Copy of Birth Certificate
    Certified Birth Abstract
    Certificate (now that’s specific)
    A Transcript from the Record of Births

    Of course to me they’re all equivalent, but the birthers have taken any difference and blown it up to meaning that there must be some fakery going on. The Texas abstract actually has no title. They print it on their standard “Certification of Vital Record” banknote paper, but only list “State of Texas” along with the county where it was issued. Someone born in Texas can get one issued at any county vital records office in the state.

    I’ve found some interesting ones from outside the US, including “Certified Copy of an Entry of Birth” from the UK.

  104. avatar
    richCares January 24, 2012 at 2:01 am #

    as for Raw Story’s “Judge says Obama must appear in birther’ suit”
    I sent a email to Raw Story and told them to correct it, I even sent link to Scibd of Judges order.
    They responded:
    Please note that the story in question is a story provided by AFP wire service and was not written by anyone at Raw Story.
    .
    You can find the story EVERYWHERE:
    You need to take your claims to AFP.
    .
    nice journalism, huh

  105. avatar
    G January 24, 2012 at 2:21 am #

    As I’ve said, real journalism has pretty much been dead in this country for many, many years now…

    There are a few pockets and islands of exceptions, of course. But the landscape has been dominated by “infotainment” for the last 10-20 years…

    richCares: as for Raw Story’s “Judge says Obama must appear in birther’ suit”I sent a email to Raw Story and told them to correct it, I even sent link to Scibd of Judges order.They responded:Please note that the story in question is a story provided by AFP wire service and was not written by anyone at Raw Story..You can find the story EVERYWHERE:You need to take your claims to AFP..nice journalism, huh

  106. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 3:51 am #

    G: As I’ve said, real journalism has pretty much been dead in this country for many, many years now…

    There are a few pockets and islands of exceptions, of course. But the landscape has been dominated by “infotainment” for the last 10-20 years…

    Well people in the MSM are waking up that this case is for real.

  107. avatar
    richCares January 24, 2012 at 3:52 am #

    when I emailed a link to Doc’s article on this as well as “Oh For Goodness sake” site they wrote me “Not in a million years would we link to a birther website. In fact, I won’t even click on the link. ”
    so I emailed them a link directly to the Scrbd document of the Judges order, then they blocked me from commenting on the Raw Story site
    “The site has blocked you from posting new comments.”
    .
    link to Raw Story story
    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/01/23/judge-says-obama-must-appear-in-birther-suit/
    .
    bring them to task on this, as I can’t post anymore

  108. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 3:52 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: You, however, cannot make a case that I ever used meth. That’s libel per se.

    You’ll still have to face the court in GA that’s ruling on your god the Antichrist.

  109. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 3:54 am #

    richCares: when I emailed a link to Doc’s article on this as well as “Oh For Goodness sake” site they wrote me “Not in a million years would we link to a birther website. In fact, I won’t even click on the link. ”
    so I emailed them a link directly to the Scrbd document of the Judges order, then they blocked me from commenting on the Raw Story site
    “The site has blocked you from posting new comments.”
    .
    link to Raw Story story
    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/01/23/judge-says-obama-must-appear-in-birther-suit/
    .
    bring them to task on this, as I can’t post anymore

    The story is out there in over fifty links now.

  110. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 3:59 am #

    You guys aren’t reporting the news of Brett Baier on Fox News. Obscurating Much?

  111. avatar
    G January 24, 2012 at 4:14 am #

    LOL! Yeah, keep telling yourself that. Who cares if it gets a bunch of hits at this point.

    Watch and see what happens on Thursday. Other than the Birther theatrics, the actual courtroom procedure will be a lot more limited in its focus and less action than you think. This is just a hearing after all. Obama certainlywon’t be there, so that story will fizzle as it doesn’t match the mistaken hype.

    The broader courtroom story won’t amount to anything more than what previous ” big event” Birther cases have turned into – some minor coverage about those nutty Birthers and their futile attempts again. Get ready for yet another in the endless stream of Birther disappointments… Can’t say we didn’t warn you in advance.

    Geir Smith: Well people in the MSM are waking up that this case is for real.

  112. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 4:15 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Yeh, it’s starting to look like that.

    G: See…it is wacky and over-the-top statements like this that just *scream* parody troll

    This story is going to court and to the media and it’s just starting to grow now. We’re still damn Tuesday. You guys in a hurry for this to over. Give time for the brewing to brew the brew right. Still brewing guys and getting to right rate of rot. Why do you guys always want to drink it before term? Obama’s a half term president.

  113. avatar
    G January 24, 2012 at 4:16 am #

    *rolls eyes*

    Ok, whatever you say there, Harold Camping… You forgot to mention a special appearance by the Flying Sphaghetti Monster as Expert Witness too…

    Geir Smith: You’ll still have to face the court in GA that’s ruling on your god the Antichrist.

  114. avatar
    G January 24, 2012 at 4:17 am #

    No idea what you are talking about. Very few people here pay any attention to Fox News or care what they have to say. Sorry.

    Geir Smith: You guys aren’t reporting the news of Brett Baier on Fox News. Obscurating Much?

  115. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 4:18 am #

    G: LOL! Yeah, keep telling yourself that. Who cares if it gets a bunch of hits at this point.

    Watch and see what happens on Thursday. Other than the Birther theatrics, the actual courtroom procedure will be a lot more limited in its focus and less action than you think. This is just a hearing after all. Obama certainlywon’t be there, so that story will fizzle as it doesn’t match the mistaken hype.

    The broader courtroom story won’t amount to anything more than what previous ” big event” Birther cases have turned into – some minor coverage about those nutty Birthers and their futile attempts again. Get ready for yet another in the endless stream of Birther disappointments… Can’t say we didn’t warn you in advance.

    You’re like Patricia Arquette in “Medium”? You can see the future in your dreams? ROFL.
    Let the media crawl all over this story for three more days till Thursday and then we’ll reassess if you’re way down in the boondocks or not. I still can’t see how far you’ve fallen because yo’ure still going straight down the tubes ROFLMAO Bye bye

  116. avatar
    G January 24, 2012 at 4:19 am #

    Yeah…good luck with that.

    Sorry to break your fantasy land bubble, but back in reality here, we’ve been pointing out that this won’t have a decision this week, as the judge asked for papers by Feb 5th. So expect many days and possibly several weeks before any written decision is finalized. We’ll be watching and reporting on the entertainment, with plenty of popcorn handy, the entire way…

    Geir Smith: This story is going to court and to the media and it’s just starting to grow now. We’re still damn Tuesday. You guys in a hurry for this to over. Give time for the brewing to brew the brew right. Still brewing guys and getting to right rate of rot. Why do you guys always want to drink it before term? Obama’s a half term president.

  117. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 4:21 am #

    G: *rolls eyes*

    Ok, whatever you say there, Harold Camping… You forgot to mention a special appearance by the Flying Sphaghetti Monster as Expert Witness too…

    Whatever you say seeing it doesn’t count. The media jury is still out on this till Thursday as it’s deciding to judge Obama guilty or not and you’re not part of the jury this time around. The media decides and not the trial’s jury nor you Obots. The People decide now.

  118. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 4:23 am #

    G: Yeah…good luck with that.

    Sorry to break your fantasy land bubble, but back in reality here, we’ve been pointing out that this won’t have a decision this week, as the judge asked for papers by Feb 5th. So expect many days and possibly several weeks before any written decision is finalized. We’ll be watching and reporting on the entertainment, with plenty of popcorn handy, the entire way…

    Bring in the international media reporting about whether Obama’s condescended to show his BC finally OR NOT. INTERNATIONAL MEDIA!!!!!!!!!!!

  119. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 4:24 am #

    We’re still not Thursday and this is GROWING.

  120. avatar
    G January 24, 2012 at 4:25 am #

    Sorry there parody troll, not much prognostication or even lawyery skills needed to see where this one is headed. There’s a solid case history over the past 3 years that should give even the densest person a clue. A bit of basic reading on the jurisdiction of the court and what has been written so far helps too. Heck, even Dean Haskins can figure out what’s happening here.

    But then again, your not really a Birther or some French wackadoodle anyway. You’re just here playing a trolling role for kicks… For the real Birther lurkers out there – have fun clinging to your fantasies while you can. Just a few more days until your latest OMG moment begins to let you down again…

    Geir Smith: You’re like Patricia Arquette in “Medium”? You can see the future in your dreams? ROFL.Let the media crawl all over this story for three more days till Thursday and then we’ll reassess if you’re way down in the boondocks or not. I still can’t see how far you’ve fallen because yo’ure still going straight down the tubes ROFLMAO Bye bye

  121. avatar
    richCares January 24, 2012 at 4:26 am #

    I had previous experience with Geer Smith, don’t respond to him, you will get nowhere, just makes the thread count go up, a waste of time, It’s makes more sense to teach pigs how to fly, If no one responds he will go away. (666)

  122. avatar
    G January 24, 2012 at 4:28 am #

    The media decides… LOL! Now that is funny. Like a court room is American Idol or something. Yeah…ok…

    Sorry, no jury either. Look up definition of a court hearing. Ah, but good luck with your fantasy! We’ll be here afterwards for any of you clowns to come and hear that we told you so… yet again…

    Geir Smith: Whatever you say seeing it doesn’t count. The media jury is still out on this till Thursday as it’s deciding to judge Obama guilty or not and you’re not part of the jury this time around. The media decides and not the trial’s jury nor you Obots. The People decide now.

  123. avatar
    richCares January 24, 2012 at 4:51 am #

    G, no more with Geir OK? it’s off topic anyway!

  124. avatar
    The Magic M January 24, 2012 at 5:01 am #

    Geir Smith: We’re still not Thursday and this is GROWING.

    Who’s interested in what happens in your pants?

    Any… day… now…

  125. avatar
    SLQ January 24, 2012 at 5:19 am #

    This very long thread which largely consists of birther-types saying “he’ll HAVE to produce his birth certificate NOW” ha ha ha ha ha is completely beside the point. Really.

    In his motion to dismiss, Van Irion stated, “the Plaintiff will stipulate that the Defendant was born in Hawaii, that the Defendant is a U.S. Citizen, and that the Defendant was Constitutionally-qualified to serve as a U.S. Senator.”

    So, there will be no discussion about the validity of the birth certificate. None. The Plaintiffs have already stipulated that he is a citizen. So the issues of such importance to most of you are not even going to be discussed. As Irion states, ” The Plaintiff makes no assertion regarding the Defendant’s passports, or social security number, or any other fact related to the Defendant, other than the one fact asserted at the beginning of this opposition: that the Defendant’s father was not a U.S. citizen.”

    So 95% of the discussion above is a complete waste of time. So on to the only issue in this case:

    Now, you can argue (as they have already attempted to) that the Minor case defined the term “natural born citizen.” But that would be incorrect. Several people above claimed that the “two citizen parents” was the holding in Minor. But it was not, because Minor was not about the term “natural born citizen.” Rather, the court holding was about what it meant to be a citizen, and therefore who could vote. The Court discussed in dicta (non-binding, non-precedent rhetoric not having to do with the holding) what natural-born citizen might mean, but stated specifically that it didn’t need to decide that matter. So Minor is completely irrelevant.

    This case, like the others before it, are frivolous, and will go nowhere. There simply is no precedent to indicate that “natural born citizen” means anything other than “born on natural soil.”

    So, have fun, birthers, but maybe you should read the court documents before you get too excited. This isn’t about producing the documents you covet (which have already been produced). It is about one thing and one thing only: the legal interpretation of “natural born citizen.”

    That is reason enough to believe that when the President’s attorney files a new motion to quash the subpoena, with the proper legal citations, it will be granted. Even if this case does end up going to hearing (which I doubt), there is no reason for President Obama to be present for a purely legal argument. My prediction is that this case will be dismissed on summary judgment, because the legal argument relying on Minor has far too many holes, and the legal argument that it simply means “born on U.S. soil” is much stronger, because there is plenty of evidence to support it.

  126. avatar
    Nathanael January 24, 2012 at 7:00 am #

    Keith: Kung Hei Fat Choy everyone!

    Dajia, xin nian quai le! Gong xi ni!

  127. avatar
    Northland10 January 24, 2012 at 7:31 am #

    y_p_w: A Transcript from the Record of Births

    If you say it out loud, it sounds like your announcing a reading in church:

    A Transcript from the Record of Births, Chapter 2.

    And in the fourth day of the eighth month, Stanley went forth to the Kapiolani so give birth to the child…

  128. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 8:03 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: You, however, cannot make a case that I ever used meth. That’s libel per se.

    Your hat looks ridiculous.

  129. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 8:57 am #

    richCares: G, no more with Geir OK? it’s off topic anyway!

    G. they’re so scared they want to cut their losses now. Why doesn’t anyone send the transcript of what Brett Baier said yesterday on prime-time FOX?

    No matter if iwhat Baier says is “legally correct”….. millons and millions have seen him. So people EVERYWHERE WORLDWIDE are looking at him thinking: “Whaaat! Obama in court?!%”

    That just destroys Obama. Obama’s being summoned forcefully to court is a no no. it’s the summons that’s evil for Obama, not this chit-chatting about whether he wll attend the tiral-hearing or not.

    You guys don’t seem to have any education and reality is an alien concept to you. Not me. I’ve done travels, university study and life-long scholarly research, I speak six languages (English, French, Norwegian are my mother tongues, Tibetan, Spanish and German are good.), I’ve travelled to Tibet twice, to India about 20 times, lived and travelled in the USA often. You people live in warped 4th Dimension parallel-realites.

    If you check Internet you’ll see that I’m THE ONE.

    I’m alone on Internet claiming Obama’s THE ONE announced by 666 and giving the proof of it that the Mark of 666 is branded on him on his victory-day by the illinois lottery draw of 666.

    Harold Camping’s a strange guy, because he doesn’t say who the Antichrist is in the End Times which he announced – and he has no problem with Obama!

    The Westboro Baptist Church announced the End Times and are adamant that Obama’s the Antichrist. They brandish “Obama Antichrist” signs all the time, at each picket. It’s their major feature. Shirley Phelps was at the White House last month with her “Obama Antichrist” sign. The same one she and her family always picket with, around the country also.

    But I contacted Shirley and Jabez her son, telling them about the Illinois lottery, but got no answer back from them. But I noticed a few daysa go that she did what I suggested which was go picket the White House itself. Unfortunately, she didn’t change her sign as I told her, which was to write it like this: “OBAMA LOTTERY 666!”

    So, I’m THE ONE in fact check it, I’m THE ONLY ONE. I’ll be honest. I’m the Reluctant One, because if you can find anyone on Internet, who’s saying Obama’s the Antichrist and backing it up with some gumption by proving it by using the lottery well I’ll give this up and tell you: “That person is the messiah.” (There is one website called “Traits of the Antichrist in Relation to Barack Obama:” which does mention the Illinois Lottery – a very small entry in a long of list of signs of the Antichrist marking Obama – but that’s I’ve been able to find and they’re not very active in spreading the message….like I am.)

    In absentia of anyone else thus,…. I’m the reluctant messiah. After all do I give a forke about this Apocalypse? I’m Buddhist for Christ’s sake. I don’t give a dumb about Christ nor Antichrist nor God darn it. Christ!

    This is a historical post.

    Big Hat Bill Cody made me do it. He’s been nattering at b4in for so long, he and reporter “Bad Fiction” (Dispatches from Birtherstan) really made me mad. Now I rule the world. People with no educatin can’t see, even with their eyes wide open.

  130. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 24, 2012 at 8:59 am #

    Ah, you understand.

    Geir Smith: Your hat looks ridiculous.

  131. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 9:04 am #

    G: In terms of this hearing, the Democratic Party of Georgia must prove that his met the minimum criteria for eligibility on their ballot, yes. THAT is all this hearing is really about.

    Obama won’t be there – period. Either the Party or legal representation for them or Obama can address any questions to that effect. They might not even need to provide ANY birth certificate at all to satisfy eligibility – a simple signed affidavit as part of the application process attesting to meeting the requirements might suffice.

    If they do need a document, then ANY official certified paper copy of his HI BC will do. That is after all what a certified copy is.

    You are going down some weird irrelevant path worrying or caring about the copy that he happened to mention coming across years earlier when he wrote his book. Who knows or cares what happened to that particular certified copy. (and YES – they are ALL certified copies – NOT the original… no one has their original document… *duh*). That is the whole point to what a certified copy is.

    If you lose, damage or otherwise need additional official copies, all you have to do is contact the appropriate authority for issuing your particular BC, follow the proper process and pay the proper fee and voila – you get another certified copy — JUST AS GOOD as any certified copy you had before. Just because someone had a copy of a document in their possession years ago doesn’t mean they still have it or it remains in usable condition today. Simple as that.

    A certified copy is a certified copy is a certified copy. Yes – those certified copies are all paper copies. Have you grasped this yet? *sigh*

    Sorry, but what part about this can’t YOU seem to understand? It certainly is not too much for you to get YOUR head around, is it? …

    ——————–

    Given that this is creating a media furor I think that providing what “should be enough” as you say, will not be enough. to make this all legal and satisfying I think Obama and the DNC should come totally clean and reveal everything. Then this will all be fine. After all we’re Obama’s boss. He can’t do anything we don’t approve of first. He didn’t elect us, he owes us full obedience.

  132. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 24, 2012 at 9:05 am #

    From the witness list, I don’t see that any experts will be at the trial on Thursday. For details, see my article:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/01/expert-witnesses-in-georgia/

    Geir Smith: Let the experts talk at the trial Thursday.

  133. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 24, 2012 at 9:17 am #

    There are a few things wrong with your comment. First, Judge Malini isn’t asking for anything. The subpoena is a pre-signed blank form filled in by Taitz, not an order Judge Malihi saw and then signed.

    The second thing is that Barack Obama isn’t going to be in Atlanta on Thursday. If he were going to be in Atlanta, that would be news, but he isn’t and it won’t.

    Finally, as one who has studied press coverage of the birther movement for over 3 years now, I see nothing unusual in intensity of coverage of this event compared to many others. I’m not even convinced that birther hopes are up any more than they have been in the past when other cases came up, such as Barnett in California.

    In fact this story pales next to things like the Donald Trump birther sprint and the White House release of the long form.

    Geir Smith: Judge Malihi is still asking for it, and not some Internet Photoshoppe [sic]. Malihi’s not an idiot, he’s a state Chief judge. Let’s see how he comes off on nationalwide [sic] live coverage of the event first then we’ll talk to whoever is still standing. Personally I doubt this issue will still be around by Thursday because CBS for one is making this headline news at it’s Atlanta outlet. By Thursday this will have reached the whole world, both East to Europe and West to Asia. “Obama in court” is big big news. By Thursady [sic] this will be out of control, the genius out of the bottle, Pandora’s Box opened. By the trial’s time I think new people in the insider secrecy will come forth.

  134. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 24, 2012 at 9:23 am #

    If Obama’s attorney submits the paper document, and I can’t see why they wouldn’t, then Zebest will have nothing to testify about even if she could survive a challenge to expertise (which she couldn’t — see http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/01/expert-witnesses-in-georgia/). Unless the PDF is submitted to the court (which makes no sense), the so-called experts are irrelevant. The SSN stuff is irrelevant. There’s not much more the birther side can do except argue their alternate Constitutional definition of eligibility.

    Geir Smith: Malihi wants to hear Mara Zabest [sic]. Computer Expert. And forget the computer docs people – we want the original paper doc.

  135. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 24, 2012 at 9:30 am #

    I have deleted all the comments containing the word “Tibet.” They are off topic for this web site.

  136. avatar
    Majority Will January 24, 2012 at 9:31 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    From the witness list, I don’t see that any experts will be at the trial on Thursday. For details, see my article:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/01/expert-witnesses-in-georgia/

    I thought it was an administrative hearing?

  137. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 24, 2012 at 9:39 am #

    Sorry about that.

    Majority Will: I thought it was an administrative hearing?

  138. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 24, 2012 at 9:44 am #

    I think that’s wishful thinking on your part. The inaccurate AP wire story stating that Obama had been ordered to appear in Atlanta was widely reported, and if it were true it would indeed be news. But it isn’t true and when Obama doesn’t appear the story becomes a tale of just one more crank lawsuit among 100 others. The general public will not pick up on the fact that this is the first case that won’t be dismissed. It would only be news if the decision goes against Obama (and I cannot imagine how that could happen).

    I have updated my post to include a link to an Atlanta Journal Constitution article that gets it right.

    http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-politics-elections/judges-order-in-birther-1313941.html

    Geir Smith: Given that this is creating a media furor

  139. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 24, 2012 at 9:47 am #

    The brake is on the left.

    Geir Smith: Now I rule the world. People with no educatin [sic] can’t see, even with their eyes wide open.

  140. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 10:01 am #

    SLQ: This very long thread which largely consists of birther-types saying “he’ll HAVE to produce his birth certificate NOW” ha ha ha ha ha is completely beside the point. Really.

    In his motion to dismiss, Van Irion stated, “the Plaintiff will stipulate that the Defendant was born in Hawaii, that the Defendant is a U.S. Citizen, and that the Defendant was Constitutionally-qualified to serve as a U.S. Senator.”

    So, there will be no discussion about the validity of the birth certificate. None. The Plaintiffs have already stipulated that he is a citizen. So the issues of such importance to most of you are not even going to be discussed. As Irion states, ” The Plaintiff makes no assertion regarding the Defendant’s passports, or social security number, or any other fact related to the Defendant, other than the one fact asserted at the beginning of this opposition: that the Defendant’s father was not a U.S. citizen.”

    So 95% of the discussion above is a complete waste of time. So on to the only issue in this case:

    Now, you can argue (as they have already attempted to) that the Minor case defined the term “natural born citizen.” But that would be incorrect. Several people above claimed that the “two citizen parents” was the holding in Minor. But it was not, because Minor was not about the term “natural born citizen.” Rather, the court holding was about what it meant to be a citizen, and therefore who could vote. The Court discussed in dicta (non-binding, non-precedent rhetoric not having to do with the holding) what natural-born citizen might mean, but stated specifically that it didn’t need to decide that matter. So Minor is completely irrelevant.

    This case, like the others before it, are frivolous, and will go nowhere. There simply is no precedent to indicate that “natural born citizen” means anything other than “born on natural soil.”

    So, have fun, birthers, but maybe you should read the court documents before you get too excited. This isn’t about producing the documents you covet (which have already been produced). It is about one thing and one thing only: the legal interpretation of “natural born citizen.”

    That is reason enough to believe that when the President’s attorney files a new motion to quash the subpoena, with the proper legal citations, it will be granted. Even if this case does end up going to hearing (which I doubt), there is no reason for President Obama to be present for a purely legal argument. My prediction is that this case will be dismissed on summary judgment, because the legal argument relying on Minor has far too many holes, and the legal argument that it simply means “born on U.S. soil” is much stronger, because there is plenty of evidence to support it.

    ——

    Very convincing. I think you’ll win in court but don’t forget that this is mostly about public opinion and that’s decided on prime time TV. If this is revealed to the general public Obama will have to address the people not the courts. If the public wants all the docs like Malihi has asked for, and Obama refuses he’ll be dead in his career. He’ll also have to answer for getting the Commander in Chief’s Defense secrets.

  141. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 10:07 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: There are a few things wrong with your comment. First, Judge Malini isn’t asking for anything. The subpoena is a pre-signed blank form filled in by Taitz, not an order Judge Malihi saw and then signed.

    The second thing is that Barack Obama isn’t going to be in Atlanta on Thursday. If he were going to be in Atlanta, that would be news, but he isn’t and it won’t.

    Finally, as one who has studied press coverage of the birther movement for over 3 years now, I see nothing unusual in intensity of coverage of this event compared to many others. I’m not even convinced that birther hopes are up any more than they have been in the past when other cases came up, such as Barnett in California.

    In fact this story pales next to things like the Donald Trump birther sprint and the White House release of the long form.

    Hitler in the Bunker saying “Everything’ll be wrapped up just fine in a jiffy” ROFL

    My wrong. I saw Fox and they missinformed me. I thot there was a trial in GA this Thursday. LoL

    Mr Dork, there are THREE trial on Thursady.

  142. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 10:10 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: If Obama’s attorney submits the paper document, and I can’t see why they wouldn’t, then Zebest will have nothing to testify about even if she could survive a challenge to expertise (which she couldn’t — see http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/01/expert-witnesses-in-georgia/). Unless the PDF is submitted to the court (which makes no sense), the so-called experts are irrelevant. The SSN stuff is irrelevant. There’s not much more the birther side can do except argue their alternate Constitutional definition of eligibility.

    Move on. LOL.

    If obama doesn’t show the paper document he’ll be in deep doo doo

  143. avatar
    Scientist January 24, 2012 at 10:11 am #

    Meanwhile, Obama is at 56% for re-election on Intrade and has been moving up steadily in the last several weeks. People that invest actual cash seem not to put much store in the circus passing through Atlanta.

  144. avatar
    Majority Will January 24, 2012 at 10:11 am #

    “People with no educatin can’t see, even with their eyes wide open.”

    Those poor irony meters never had a chance.

    * POOF *

  145. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 10:16 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I have deleted all the comments containing the word “Tibet.” They are off topic for this web site.

    ROFLMAO Kalachakra too? ti hi hi

  146. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 10:18 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The brake is on the left.

    Geir Smith: Now I rule the world. People with no educatin [sic] can’t see, even with their eyes wide open.

    I’m THE ONE because I’m alone in revealing 666 marking Obama.

    How does one put links on here?

    http://www.ronpaulwarroom.com/?p=17440

    Is Obama the Antichrist? Lisa Miller – NEWSWEEK

    By Gunny G | November 17, 2008

    November 17, 2008
    Is Obama the Antichrist?

    The winning lottery number in Illinois was 666, which, as everyone knows, is the sign of the Beast.
    Lisa Miller
    NEWSWEEK
    From the magazine issue dated Nov 24, 2008

    On Nov. 5, Todd Strandberg was at his desk, fielding E-mails from around the world. As the editor and founder of RaptureReady.com, his job is to track current events and link them to biblical prophecy in hopes of maintaining his status as “the eBay of prophecy,” the best source online for predictions and calculations concerning the end of the world. Already Barack Obama had drawn the attention of apocalypse watchers after an anonymous e-mail circulated among conservative Christians in October implying that he was the Antichrist. Former “Saturday Night Live” ingénue Victoria Jackson fueled the fire when, according to news reports, she wrote on her Web site that Obama “bears traits that resemble the anti-Christ.”

    Now Strandberg was receiving up-to-the-minute news from his constituents in Illinois. One of the winning lottery numbers in the president-elect’s home state was 666— which, as everyone knows, is the sign of the Beast (also known as the Antichrist). “It is very eerie, and I take it for a sign as to who he really is,” wrote one of Strandberg’s correspondents.

    cont….

  147. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 10:22 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I think that’s wishful thinking on your part. The inaccurate AP wire story stating that Obama had been ordered to appear in Atlanta was widely reported, and if it were true it would indeed be news. But it isn’t true and when Obama doesn’t appear the story becomes a tale of just one more crank lawsuit among 100 others. The general public will not pick up on the fact that this is the first case that won’t be dismissed. It would only be news if the decision goes against Obama (and I cannot imagine how that could happen).

    I have updated my post to include a link to an Atlanta Journal Constitution article that gets it right.

    http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-politics-elections/judges-order-in-birther-1313941.html

    AP, CBS, ABC, FOX, over 50 MSM networks.

  148. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 10:23 am #

    Scientist: Meanwhile, Obama is at 56% for re-election on Intrade and has been moving up steadily in the last several weeks. People that invest actual cash seem not to put much store in the circus passing through Atlanta.

    You support Obama? lol

  149. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 10:24 am #

    Scientist: Meanwhile, Obama is at 56% for re-election on Intrade and has been moving up steadily in the last several weeks. People that invest actual cash seem not to put much store in the circus passing through Atlanta.

    Is Obama a CULT?

  150. avatar
    J. Potter January 24, 2012 at 10:25 am #

    Geir Smith: he owes us full obedience.

    A stunning choice of words. What hubris! I have been less than impressed with some Presidents, but I would naver expect any of them to dance on a string, particularly in regards to personal information. Here, have a shred of decency, on me.

  151. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 10:27 am #

    Doc, wanna punch it out with Unroh?

    http://www.wnd.com/2012/01/obama-to-miss-eligibility-hearing/

    Will Obama show up at eligibility hearing?
    Judge wants president in Atlanta courtroom Thursday

    barack-obama-birth-certificate

    There’s a subpoena from a Georgia administrative court with Barack Obama’s name on it for him to be in Atlanta on Thursday, along with the documentation about his birth, to answer to challenges from residents of the state objecting to the presence of his name on the 2012 ballot.

    They believe he’s simply not eligible under the Constitution’s requirement that a president be a “natural born citizen.” They say the Founders thought of that status as the offspring of two citizen parents, and Obama’s father was Kenyan. Or they say he wasn’t born in the U.S. They are legitimately allowed to raise those challenges under a state law.

    But several observers say no one really should expect Obama to arrive.

    For one thing, his important presidential trip to Denver, Detroit and Las Vegas, three key regions where he wants to build his support before the November 2012 election, is on tap.

    Discover what the Constitution’s reference to “natural born citizen” means and whether Barack Obama qualifies, in the ebook version of “Where’s the REAL Birth Certificate?”

    Besides that, Eric Segall of Georgia State University told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that this is just like all the other lawsuits over Obama’s eligibility: worthless.

    “There have been many, many lawsuits trying to litigate the issue of the president’s nationality,” the law professor opined. “They have all been dismissed and this one should be too. In light of the frivolousness of the case, the judge has no valid authority to require the president to appear in court.”

    The administrative court itself probably would not pursue any sort of procedure against the president should he fail to appear, but Marietta, Ga., attorney Melvin Goldstein said the logical sequence of events would be, presuming Obama’s failure to appear, for the court to refer the matter to a superior court judge in the county, who could determine whether a contempt citation against Obama would be supported.

    It was White House Press Secretary Jay Carney who told reporters Obama would be delivering the State of the Union Tuesday, then traveling for three days, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.

    “He will be speaking specifically about … American manufacturing, American energy, and skill for American workers,” Carney said.

    WND reported Friday on the stunning decision from Judge Michael M. Malihi, who refused a demand from Obama’s lawyer to quash the subpoena for Thursday.

    WND had reported earlier when Obama outlined a defense strategy for a number of state-level challenges to his candidacy in 2012 which argue that states have nothing to do with the eligibility of presidential candidates. Such challenges have been raised in New Hampshire, Arizona, Illinois and several other states.

    “Presidential electors and Congress, not the state of Georgia, hold the constitutional responsibility for determining the qualifications of presidential candidates,” Obama’s lawyer argued in a motion to quash a subpoena for him to appear at the hearings in Atlanta Jan. 26.

    “The election of President Obama by the presidential electors, confirmed by Congress, makes the documents and testimony sought by plaintiff irrelevant,” the lawyer said.

    Malihi, however, took a different view.

    “Defendant argues that if enforced, [the subpoena] requires him to interrupt duties as president of the United States’ to attend a hearing in Atlanta, Georgia. However, defendant fails to provide any legal authority to support his motion to quash the subpoena to attend,” he wrote in his order.

    “Defendant’s motion suggests that no president should be compelled to attend a court hearing. This may be correct. But defendant has failed to enlighten the court with any legal authority,” the judge continued.

    “Specifically, defendant has failed to cite to any legal authority evidencing why his attendance is unreasonable or oppressive, or that the testimony … [is] irrelevant, immaterial, or cumulative and unnecessary to a party’s preparation or presentation at the hearing, or that basic fairness dictates that the subpoena should not be enforced.’”

    Hearings have been scheduled for three separate complaints raised against Obama’s candidacy. They all are raised by Georgia residents who are challenging Obama’s name on the 2012 ballot for various reasons, which they are allowed to do under state law.

    It is states, usually through the office of secretary of state, that run elections, not the federal government. The national election is simply a compilation of the results of the individual elections within states.

    The schedule for the hearings was set by Malihi of the Georgia state Office of State Administrative Hearings. In Georgia, a state law requires “every candidate for federal” office who is certified by the state executive committees of a political party or who files a notice of candidacy “shall meet the constitutional and statutory qualifications for holding the office being sought.”

    State law also grants the secretary of state and any “elector who is eligible to vote for a candidate” in the state the authority to raise a challenge to a candidate’s qualifications, the judge determined.

    Three different plaintiffs’ groups are lined up for separate hearings, including one represented by California attorney Orly Taitz. She had the judge sign a subpoena for Obama’s testimony, and Michael Jablonski, Obama’s attorney for the cases, argued that he should be exempted.

    “Make no mistake about it. This is the beginning of Watergate Two or ObamaForgeryGate. I believe this is the second time in the U.S. history a sitting president is ordered to comply with a subpoena, and produce documents, which might eventually bring criminal charges to the president and a number of high-ranking individuals,” Taitz said.

    Separately, Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio in Arizona told WND he also had gotten a subpoena to be at the hearings in Georgia. He said the goal apparently is to ask him about his Cold Case Posse investigation of Obama’s eligibility, but he said since the investigation remains open, he wouldn’t be able to say much about it.

    Citizens bringing the complaints include David Farrar, Leah Lax, Thomas Malaren and Laurie Roth, represented by Taitz; David Weldon represented by attorney Van R. Irion of Liberty Legal Foundation; and Carl Swensson and Kevin Richard Powell, represented by J. Mark Hatfield. Cody Judy is raising a challenge because he also wants to be on the ballot.

    Hatfield also had filed with the court a “Notice to Produce” asking for Obama’s documents and records.

    He wants one of the two original certified copies of Obama’s long-form birth certificate.

    Obama’s attorney, Jablonski, also had argued that the state should mind its own business.

    “The sovereignty of the state of Georgia does not extend beyond the limits of the State. … Since the sovereignty of the state does not extend beyond its territorial limits, an administrative subpoena has no effect,” the filing argued.

    Taitz’s supporters joined a discussion on her website, where she also solicits support for the expenses of the battles she’s confronting, judging that Obama is on the defensive.

    “What a joke. He claims to be too busy performing the duties of the president of the United States. How many days of vacation has he taken? How many rounds of golf? If he is too busy to provide the documents that provide the basis for meeting the requirements of the office, then perhaps he better sit out the next four years,” said one.

    Wrote another, “The election of President Obama by the presidential electors, confirmed by Congress, makes the documents and testimony sought by plaintiff irrelevant. … This is complete utter nonsense!”

    In fact, a presidential elector in California brought a lawsuit challenging Obama’s eligibility at the time of the 2008 election and was told the dispute was not yet ripe because the inauguration hadn’t taken place. The courts later ruled that the elector lost his “standing” to bring the lawsuit after the inauguration.

    Barack Obama

    Irion said his argument is that the Founders clearly considered a “natural born citizen,” as the Constitution requires of a president and no one else, to be the offspring of two citizen parents. Since Obama himself has written in his books that his father, Barack Obama Sr. was a Kenyan, and thus subject to the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom, Irion argues that Obama is disqualified under any circumstances based on his own testimony.

    Those who argue against his birth in the United States note that numerous experts have given testimony and sworn statements that they believe Obama’s Hawaiian birth documentation to be fraudulent.

    It is that concern that also has prompted Arpaio to turn over an investigation of that issue to his Cold Case Posse. Its investigative report is expected to be released in the next few weeks.

    The Georgia hearing apparently will be the first time among dozens of so-far unsuccessful lawsuits brought over Obama’s eligibility issue that evidence will be heard in a court. Other cases all have been dismissed over issues such as standing, without a presentation of the evidence.

    There are similar challenges to Obama’s 2012 candidacy being raised before state election or other commissions in Tennessee, Arizona, Illinois, New Hampshire and other states.

    The image released by the White House in April:

    Obama long-form birth certificate released April 27 by the White House

    Top constitutional expert Herb Titus contends that a “natural born citizen” is born of parents who are citizens. That argument also is supported by a 19th-century U.S. Supreme Court decision, Minor v. Happersett in 1875. The case includes one of very few references in the nation’s archives that addresses the definition of “natural-born citizen.”

    That case states: “The Constitution does not in words say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners.”

    An extensive analysis of the issue was conducted by Titus, who has taught constitutional law, common law and other subjects for 30 years at five different American Bar Association-approved law schools. He also was the founding dean of the College of Law at Regent University, a trial attorney and special assistant U.S. attorney in the Department of Justice.

    “Natural born citizen’ in relation to the office of president, and whether someone is eligible, was in the Constitution from the very beginning,” he said. “Another way of putting it; there is a law of the nature of citizenship. If you are a natural born citizen, you are a citizen according to the law of nature, not according to any positive statement in a Constitution or in a statute, but because of the very nature of your birth and the very nature of nations.”

    If you “go back and look at what the law of nature would be or would require … that’s precisely what a natural born citizen is …. is one who is born to a father and mother each of whom is a citizen of the U.S. or whatever other country,” he said.

    “Now what we’ve learned from the Hawaii birth certificate is that Mr. Obama’s father was not a citizen of the United States. His mother was, but he doesn’t qualify as a natural born citizen for the office of president.”

  152. avatar
    richCares January 24, 2012 at 10:28 am #

    When I told Raws Story they got it wrong, they stated:
    “Please note that the story in question is a story provided by AFP wire service and was not written by anyone at Raw Story.
    You need to take your claims to AFP.
    You can find the story EVERYWHERE: “
    .
    When I sent link to Scribd of Judges order they banned me from further comment

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/01/23/judge-says-obama-must-appear-in-birther-suit/

  153. avatar
    Scientist January 24, 2012 at 10:28 am #

    Geir Smith: You support Obama? lol

    My stock trading account says Obama has been “berry, berry goo to me” But if you want to do well on Intrade, you bet based on probable outcomes, not what you would like to see.

  154. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 10:29 am #

    J. Potter: A stunning choice of words. What hubris! I have been less than impressed with some Presidents, but I would naver expect any of them to dance on a string, particularly in regards to personal information. Here, have a shred of decency, on me.

    To get the nuclear codes you must be fully vetted. You must for example give your true legal name. Obama’s comitted High Treason.

  155. avatar
    Judge Mental January 24, 2012 at 10:30 am #

    SLQ: This very long thread which largely consists of birther-types saying “he’ll HAVE to produce his birth certificate NOW” ha ha ha ha ha is completely beside the point. Really.In his motion to dismiss, Van Irion stated, “the Plaintiff will stipulate that the Defendant was born in Hawaii, that the Defendant is a U.S. Citizen, and that the Defendant was Constitutionally-qualified to serve as a U.S. Senator.” So, there will be no discussion about the validity of the birth certificate. None. The Plaintiffs have already stipulated that he is a citizen. So the issues of such importance to most of you are not even going to be discussed. As Irion states, ” The Plaintiff makes no assertion regarding the Defendant’s passports, or social security number, or any other fact related to the Defendant, other than the one fact asserted at the beginning of this opposition: that the Defendant’s father was not a U.S. citizen.”So 95% of the discussion above is a complete waste of time. So on to the only issue in this case:Now, you can argue (as they have already attempted to) that the Minor case defined the term “natural born citizen.” But that would be incorrect. Several people above claimed that the “two citizen parents” was the holding in Minor. But it was not, because Minor was not about the term “natural born citizen.” Rather, the court holding was about what it meant to be a citizen, and therefore who could vote. The Court discussed in dicta (non-binding, non-precedent rhetoric not having to do with the holding) what natural-born citizen might mean, but stated specifically that it didn’t need to decide that matter. So Minor is completely irrelevant.This case, like the others before it, are frivolous, and will go nowhere. There simply is no precedent to indicate that “natural born citizen” means anything other than “born on natural soil.”So, have fun, birthers, but maybe you should read the court documents before you get too excited. This isn’t about producing the documents you covet (which have already been produced). It is about one thing and one thing only: the legal interpretation of “natural born citizen.”That is reason enough to believe that when the President’s attorney files a new motion to quash the subpoena, with the proper legal citations, it will be granted. Even if this case does end up going to hearing (which I doubt),there is no reason for President Obama to be present for a purely legal argument. My prediction is that this case will be dismissed on summary judgment, because the legal argument relying on Minor has far too many holes, and the legal argument that it simply means “born on U.S. soil” is much stronger, because there is plenty of evidence to support it.

    You seem a bit confused. You are basically correct about the nature of the challenge for which Van Irion is the plaintiff’s lawyer but you seem to be unaware that there are three different hearings of three different challenges all scheduled one after the other on 26th January.

    Plaintiffs’ lawyer in the second scheduled challenge hearing is Hatfield and it appears likely that this will be much the same as the Van Irion challenge.

    Plaintiffs’ lawyer in the third challenge hearing is Orly Taitz and those plaintiffs are challenging on the basis of far more than just the” two citizen parent theory”. They are also challenging on other grounds incluing on the basis of the candidate having a fraudulent birth certificate and not having established that he is who he claims to be.

    Most people’s comments on here are actually referring to the third scheduled challenge hearing which has the potential to go way beyond only examining the “two citizen parent theory”.

    The failed motion to quash which you refer wasn’t even connected with Van Irion’s challenge hearing or about any subpoena issued in connection with that hearing. Van Irion’s case does’t involve the subpoena’ing of anyone.

    The motion to quash actually concerned a subpoena (unenforcable by this ALJ in any case) issued to the President regarding the third scheduled hearing (Taitz) and had absolutely nothing to do with the Van Irion hearing. There is no guarantee that the Obama lawyer will even bother filing a new motion to quash.

    On a more picky note there can’t possibly be a summary judgement, though there could be a summary determination. This is an administrative law determination hearing and if the ALJ were to be inclined to bring one or more of these three hearings to a conclusion prior to them even starting, it would actually be a summary ‘determination’ not a summary ‘judgement’. This court doesn’t issue ‘judgements’.

    If all three hearings take place, and it presently seems very likely that they will, the ALJ will not be issuing any ‘decision’ or ‘recommendations to the SoS’ until after the 5th February which is the date he has set for both sides to submit their FoF and CoL.

    Hope this helps.

  156. avatar
    Majority Will January 24, 2012 at 10:31 am #

    Eric Segall of Georgia State University told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that this is just like all the other lawsuits over Obama’s eligibility: worthless.

    “There have been many, many lawsuits trying to litigate the issue of the president’s nationality,” the law professor opined. “They have all been dismissed and this one should be too. In light of the frivolousness of the case, the judge has no valid authority to require the president to appear in court.”

    Nicely summed up.

  157. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 10:35 am #

    People here are some arguments you may want to discuss. YOu’ve been very effective in avoiding all the previous arguiments about the GA trials (ther are three trials on Tursaday) so let’s move on to the other topics now:

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2012/01/roger-hedgecock-tackles-obamas.html

    Nationally Syndicated Radio Host Roger Hedgecock Tackles
    Obama’s Eligibility And Georgia Court Hearing
    Neil B. Turner @ Citizens for the Constitution

    Patriots;

    BREAKING: The Roger Hedgecock Show; 6:00 – 9:00 pm EST (www.RodgerHedgecock.com) 877-847-6437 (January 23, 2012)

    At ~ 4:20 pm PST (hour 2), Roger began talking about how we know nothing about Obama; no one knew him at Columbia (e.g. George Stephanopoulos & Wayne Allyn Root – supposed classmates); etc. etc., and why doesn’t the media ask these questions?

    Here’s the replay of Hour 2:

    (start at 18:55) Play mp3 Roger Hedgecock 01-23-12 H2 (right-click and save as)

    I called in and told the screener that I wanted to answer Roger’s question of why there were no records of Obama at Columbia. I was put on at 5:05 pm PST. (at the beginning of hour 3) (5:00 – 12:00 minutes of the broadcast)

    Below I will summarize what I covered:

    1. I participated in research that discovered Obama never attended Columbia, and heard the testimony of Wayne Allyn Root saying that he never attended school there with him.

    2. I told Roger: You will have the answer to all your questions at a hearing in an Atlanta, GA courthouse, on Thursday, 26 January (I’ve heard about that’, said Roger, but I don’t think it’s going anywhere’), where Judge Malihi has subpoenaed all those missing records. There will be 3 cases heard, telling us why there are no records (we don’t need Obama to be there), and determining whether a private individual (not ‘President’) named Obama should have his name on the GA Ballot as a candidate for the Office of President: Article II says that no person, except a natural born Citizen,… shall be eligible for the Office of President’.

    3. (Roger then said we can be pretty sure that he was born in Hawaii, because they would not have put the announcement in the newspapers in anticipation of his running for president 48 years later).

    Not so’, said I. The announcement that was published (if it was in fact actually published) in 2 newspapers were exactly the same, so they came from one report’.

    Also, you must be aware that someone born anywhere in the world could get an Hawaiian Certificate of Live Birth – simply by someone who lived in Hawaii reporting a birth (anywhere in the world). Imagine, if you will, a proud grandma being told by her daughter that she just gave birth to a son (e.g. in Kenya). That would not be a future president’ conspiracy, it would simply be a proud grandma announcing the birth of her new grandson. The address of the announcement was the grandmother’s address.

    4. (Roger asked where can we get information on the live streaming of the Court Hearing?).

    Go to http://www.TPATH.org for links and full details.

    5. (Roger asked do you have a website’?).

    Go to http://www.ObamaBallotChallenge.com.

    Thanks you caller. (cut off phone line).

    Roger: He sounded like he knew what he was talking about.

    Here is the replay of Hour 3: (5:00 – 12:00 minutes of the broadcast)

    Play mp3 Roger Hedgecock 01-23-12 H3 (right-click and save as)

    So the word is now out on national radio. Put it to use: make audio clips of Roger’s and my comments (or send it out with the links and the timing of Roger’s and my comments on the air); post it on your websites; and get folks to start calling in to Roger’s show. He sounds ready to blow the whistle’ on the Greatest Fraud of the Centuries.

    In Liberty and In Truth.

    Neil B. Turner
    Citizens for the Constitution

    —-

    Please adress each part of this thanks.

  158. avatar
    Majority Will January 24, 2012 at 10:37 am #

    Herb Titus is wrong.

    Here’s an appeal to authority:

    All of our Presidents have, to date, been born in the 50 states. Notably, President Obama was born in the state of Hawaii, and so is clearly a natural born citizen.
    – US Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor (retired)

    Check the credentials of each legal scholar.

    Constitutional expert Justice O’Connor wins.

  159. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 10:37 am #

    Majority Will: Eric Segall of Georgia State University told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that this is just like all the other lawsuits over Obama’s eligibility: worthless.

    “There have been many, many lawsuits trying to litigate the issue of the president’s nationality,” the law professor opined. “They have all been dismissed and this one should be too. In light of the frivolousness of the case, the judge has no valid authority to require the president to appear in court.”

    Nicely summed up.

    Orly Taitz and the Birther Summit’s Haskins have allied on the GA trial that’s why it’s more p´werful. This is also election year runup-time. Things are normally more tense at this time.

  160. avatar
    Majority Will January 24, 2012 at 10:38 am #

    Geir Smith: GA trials (ther are three trials on Tursaday)

    Administrative hearings.

  161. avatar
    Majority Will January 24, 2012 at 10:39 am #

    Geir Smith: Orly Taitz and the Birther Summit’s Haskins have allied on the GA trial that’s why it’s more p´werful. This is also election year runup-time. Things are normally more tense at this time.

    It’s not a trial. Your “educatin” should clue you in to the difference.

  162. avatar
    Majority Will January 24, 2012 at 10:40 am #

    Geir Smith: Orly Taitz and the Birther Summit’s Haskins have allied on the GA trial that’s why it’s more p´werful.

    Actually, that’s why it’s more entertaining. There’s a big difference there as well.

  163. avatar
    y_p_w January 24, 2012 at 10:44 am #

    At least the AJC article does clarify that the judge didn’t order Obama to appear and probably can’t. However, there is a pretty sloppy thing in that the author adds something to the quote of the denial:

    “This may be correct,” Malihi wrote. “But [Obama] has failed to enlighten the court with any legal authority.”

    Which should read:

    “This may be correct,” Malihi wrote. “But [Georgia Democratic Party attorney Michael Jablonskii] has failed to enlighten the court with any legal authority.”

  164. avatar
    Majority Will January 24, 2012 at 10:45 am #

    Geir Smith: People here are some arguments you may want to discuss.

    It’s all been discussed here before. There are many links here that might be helpful in your “educatin”.

    So far, other than being predictably bizarre, you’ve introduced nothing new or anything even close to resembling the truth.

    Bearing false witness seems to be an all too common birther trait.

  165. avatar
    y_p_w January 24, 2012 at 10:47 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I have updated my post to include a link to an Atlanta Journal Constitution article that gets it right.

    http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-politics-elections/judges-order-in-birther-1313941.html

    I’m rather disappointed that the author doesn’t even mention Michael Jablonski, but refers to Obama’s “legal team”. The author makes it sound as if it’s a large team rather than one lawyer not showing exactly why he should be trusted to handle this case on behalf of the President.

  166. avatar
    Majority Will January 24, 2012 at 10:47 am #

    y_p_w:
    At least the AJC article does clarify that the judge didn’t order Obama to appear and probably can’t. However, there is a pretty sloppy thing in that the author adds something to the quote of the denial:

    “This may be correct,” Malihi wrote. “But [Obama] has failed to enlighten the court with any legal authority.”

    Which should read:

    “This may be correct,” Malihi wrote. “But [Georgia Democratic Party attorney Michael Jablonskii] has failed to enlighten the court with any legal authority.”

    That’s an important distinction.

  167. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 10:48 am #

    Judge Mental: You seem a bit confused. You are basically correct about the nature of the challenge for which Van Irion is the plaintiff’s lawyer but you seem to be unaware that there are three different hearings of three different challenges all scheduled one after the other on 26th January.

    Plaintiffs’ lawyer in the second scheduled challenge hearing is Hatfield and it appears likely that this will be much the same as the Van Irion challenge.

    Plaintiffs’ lawyer in the third challenge hearing is Orly Taitz and those plaintiffs are challenging on the basis of far more than just the” two citizen parent theory”. They are also challenging on other grounds incluing on the basis of the candidate having a fraudulent birth certificate and not having established that he is who he claims to be.

    Most people’s comments on here are actually referring to the third scheduled challenge hearing which has the potential to go way beyond only examining the “two citizen parent theory”.

    The failed motion to quash which you refer wasn’t even connected with Van Irion’s challenge hearing or about any subpoena issued in connection with that hearing. Van Irion’s case does’t involve the subpoena’ing of anyone.

    The motion to quash actually concerned a subpoena (unenforcable by this ALJ in any case) issued to the President regarding the third scheduled hearing (Taitz) and had absolutely nothing to do with the Van Irion hearing. There is no guarantee that the Obama lawyer will even bother filing a new motion to quash.

    On a more picky note there can’t possibly be a summary judgement, though there could be a summary determination. This is an administrative law determination hearing and if the ALJ were to be inclined to bring one or more of these three hearings to a conclusion prior to them even starting, it would actually be a summary determination’ not a summary judgement’. This court doesn’t issue judgements’.

    If all three hearings take place, and it presently seems very likely that they will, the ALJ will not be issuing any decision’ or recommendations to the SoS’ until after the 5th February which is the date he has set for both sides to submit their FoF and CoL.

    Hope this helps.

    Welcome (to the funnyhouse of the obamaCult). It’s going to be a circus. New courtroom with better multimedia facitilies has been provided lol.

    It’s good that this leaves the rational level and goees to the irrationalo level of public opinion. A president can’t rule without speaking to the people or be a dicatotor. Now the people talk back to him through the irrational media circus rumors, smears and slander. obama will ignore the people at his own risk.

    Mental, you’re rightly explaining to people hree who have no idea abbout anything that THERE ARE THREE HEARINGS. Yes, Hatfield is a second generation of attorneys and will be lethal to Obama. If the defense slips up onone single detail they’ll be toast for eternity.

    Judge, there are five different GA ballot challenges which GOP Ballot Commissionner Brian Kemp has distributed to five different judges as well. Good to know.

    As you say:”Hope this helps.”

  168. avatar
    Judge Mental January 24, 2012 at 10:50 am #

    I love the notion put forward by one far smarter mind than mine of Jablonski/Obama arranging for Hawaii to urgently send a certified copy COLB direct to the office of the Georgia Secretary of State.

    In a sane world that would remove any constructive point or reasonable necessity for the SoS to even require to submit challenges of these nature for the determination/recommendation of an Administrative Law Court and should result in the SoS notifying the ALJ that his input was no longer required and thus the cancellation of the hearings.

    Several certified copy COLB’s sent direct from Hawaii to the ALJ at the court building seems perhaps the next best thing, with the ALJ giving one to each of the three lawyers, leaving Taitz in the position of arguing that the State of Hawaii DOH have forged a certificate in respect of which they are the sole certifying authority.

  169. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 10:52 am #

    y_p_w: I’m rather disappointed that the author doesn’t even mention Michael Jablonski, but refers to Obama’s “legal team”. The author makes it sound as if it’s a large team rather than one lawyer not showing exactly why he should be trusted to handle this case on behalf of the President.

    Anyone can defend the president don’t you think? It sounds to us as if you’re saying this guy needs a GOOD LAWYER Christ! Obama’s not Al Capone is he? I know he’s also from Chicago, Sin City, but does he need top-notch lawyers to keep his arse out of jail? I don’t think Jablonski is lacking, even a small kid could defend an innocent. Obama’s innocent isn’t he DOC CONSPIRACY? (Cult) i’m not laffing anymore.

  170. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 10:54 am #

    Majority Will: It’s all been discussed here before. There are many links here that might be helpful in your “educatin”.

    So far, other than being predictably bizarre, you’ve introduced nothing new or anything even close to resembling the truth.

    Bearing false witness seems to be an all too common birther trait.

    I don’t discuss with ignorant ugly posters.

  171. avatar
    JoZeppy January 24, 2012 at 10:54 am #

    Geir Smith: If the public wants all the docs like Malihi has asked for

    Do follow along. Malihi hasn’t asked for anything….and the public doesn’t care either. All but the most serious nutters stopped caring when the long form went public.

    Geir Smith: He’ll also have to answer for getting the Commander in Chief’s Defense secrets.

    In case you missed it. We IS the Commander in Chief….did you fall asleep in Jan 2009…he was sworn in, not once, but twice.

  172. avatar
    Judge Mental January 24, 2012 at 10:57 am #

    Geir Smith: Welcome (to the funnyhouse of the obamaCult). P>

    Thanks for the welcome but I’ve been here for a while already and quite frankly, on the available evidence so far, you are just about as loony tunes a poster as I’ve seen on here so far

    Good luck, you’re going to need it.

  173. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 10:58 am #

    Judge Mental: I love the notion put forward by one far smarter mind than mine of Jablonski/Obama arranging for Hawaii to urgently send a certified copy COLB direct to the office of the Georgia Secretary of State.

    In a sane world that would remove any constructive point or reasonable necessity for the SoS to even require to submit challenges of these nature for the determination/recommendation of an Administrative Law Court and should result in the SoS notifying the ALJ that his input was no longer required and thus the cancellation of the hearings.

    Several certified copy COLB’s sent direct from Hawaii to the ALJ at the court building seems perhaps the next best thing, with the ALJ giving one to each of the three lawyers, leaving Taitz in the position of arguing that the State of Hawaii DOH have forged a certificate in respect of which they are the sole certifying authority.

    There’s better still. In the first days people would answer: “Obama couldn’t be president if he hadn’t been vetted.”

    That’s like saying a beautiful person can’t be sick with AIDS because they’re too pretty. Satan is beautiful. It’s called the Beauty of the Devil. Crack addicts look really good.

  174. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 10:59 am #

    Judge Mental: Thanks for the welcome but I’ve been here for a while already and quite frankly, on the available evidence so far, you are just about as loony tunes a poster as I’ve seen on here so far

    Good luck, you’re going to need it.

    Thanks, very kind.

  175. avatar
    y_p_w January 24, 2012 at 11:00 am #

    Geir Smith: Anyone can defend the president don’t you think? It sounds to us as if you’re saying this guy needs a GOOD LAWYER Christ! Obama’s not Al Capone is he? I know he’s also from Chicago, Sin City, but does he need top-notch lawyers to keep his arse out of jail? I don’t think Jablonski is lacking, even a small kid could defend an innocent. Obama’s innocent isn’t he DOC CONSPIRACY? (Cult) i’m not laffing anymore.

    Whoa!

    Have you even digested anything that should be patently obvious?

    Not a trial but an administrative hearing.

    Not a final determination, but simply a recommendation to the Georgia Secretary of State.

    The administrative court doesn’t even have any of the powers that a district/superior court judge has, which includes issuing bench warrants or being able to find someone in contempt of court.

    And yeah I think he needs a good lawyer. If I were him I might have asked that Perkins-Coie send someone down there or at least get a reputable law firm to sit next to Jablonski. Anyone know if there’s co-counsel whether or not either can file motions independent of the other (outside of sending each a copy of everything)?

  176. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 11:01 am #

    Judge Mental: Thanks for the welcome but I’ve been here for a while already and quite frankly, on the available evidence so far, you are just about as loony tunes a poster as I’ve seen on here so far

    Good luck, you’re going to need it.

    Don’t worry relax be happy. Schizophrenia’s main symptom is calling others crazy. The solution? Mentally relaxing the mind. Schizos are very uptight and unhappy people. Develop serenity within. You’ll slowly discard your sickness like layers of rot.

  177. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 11:02 am #

    y_p_w: Whoa!

    Have you even digested anything that should be patently obvious?

    Not a trial but an administrative hearing.

    Not a final determination, but simply a recommendation to the Georgia Secretary of State.

    The administrative court doesn’t even have any of the powers that a district/superior court judge has, which includes issuing bench warrants or being able to find someone in contempt of court.

    And yeah I think he needs a good lawyer. If I were him I might have asked that Perkins-Coie send someone down there or at least get a reputable law firm to sit next to Jablonski. Anyone know if there’s co-counsel whether or not either can file motions independent of the other (outside of sending each a copy of everything)?

    THREE TRIALS NOT ONE.

  178. avatar
    JoZeppy January 24, 2012 at 11:04 am #

    Geir Smith: THREE TRIALS NOT ONE.

    Actually, ZERO trials. This isn’t a trial. It’s an administrative hearing that results in a RECOMMENDATION to the secretary of state.

  179. avatar
    Majority Will January 24, 2012 at 11:04 am #

    Geir Smith: I don’t discuss with ignorant ugly posters.

    That’s some serious psychological projection you have going on there.

    Openly insulting the host of a private blog and calling people you don’t know meth addicts, idiots and traitors is certainly ugly, hypocritical and strangely pompous.

    Do you own a mirror?

  180. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 11:05 am #

    y_p_w: Whoa!

    Have you even digested anything that should be patently obvious?

    Not a trial but an administrative hearing.

    Not a final determination, but simply a recommendation to the Georgia Secretary of State.

    The administrative court doesn’t even have any of the powers that a district/superior court judge has, which includes issuing bench warrants or being able to find someone in contempt of court.

    And yeah I think he needs a good lawyer. If I were him I might have asked that Perkins-Coie send someone down there or at least get a reputable law firm to sit next to Jablonski. Anyone know if there’s co-counsel whether or not either can file motions independent of the other (outside of sending each a copy of everything)?

    The only one who doesn’t want the truth to be known is someone with something to hide. Even Doc Conspiracy said today Obama’s Attorney should produce the paper document. He said he had found it folded in a book used as a bookmark in his grandmother’s attic. Is it me or does this all smell a rat?

  181. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 11:06 am #

    Geir Smith: The only one who doesn’t want the truth to be known is someone with something to hide. Even Doc Conspiracy said today Obama’s Attorney should produce the paper document. He said he had found it folded in a book used as a bookmark in his grandmother’s attic. Is it me or does this all smell a rat?

    Explanation: in “Dreams of my Father” he said he had found it his grandma’s house.

  182. avatar
    Majority Will January 24, 2012 at 11:08 am #

    Geir Smith: Is it me or does this all smell a rat?

    It’s probably whatever is stuck to your upper lip.

  183. avatar
    Judge Mental January 24, 2012 at 11:09 am #

    Geir Smith: Orly Taitz and the Birther Summit’s Haskins have allied on the GA trial that’s why it’s more p´werful. This is also election year runup-time. Things are normally more tense at this time.

    You must be joking! What colour is the sky on your planet?

    Dean Haskins of the Birther Summit has been markedly vociferous in his open and acidic criticism of Orly Taitz re her tactics regarding the GA hearing (it’s not by any stretch of the imagination a ‘trial’) in which she is representing several plaintiffs.

    Right now they are about as ‘allied’ as Israel and Hezbollah.

  184. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 11:10 am #

    JoZeppy: Actually, ZERO trials. This isn’t a trial. It’s an administrative hearing that results in a RECOMMENDATION to the secretary of state.

    Yeah, well there are THREE of them and five ballot challenges in total distributed by the Ballot Commissioner to five different Georgia judges.

  185. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 11:11 am #

    Judge Mental: You must be joking! What colour is the sky on your planet?

    Dean Haskins of the Birther Summit has been markedly vociferous in his open and acidic criticism of Orly Taitz re her tactics regarding the GA hearing (it’s not by any stretch of the imagination a trial’) in which she is representing several plaintiffs.

    Right now they are about as allied’ as Israel and Hezbollah.

    I thot you were a birther. Haskins’ paying half the money for full live coverage of the three events on Jan 26.

  186. avatar
    Majority Will January 24, 2012 at 11:11 am #

    Geir Smith: That’s like saying a beautiful person can’t be sick with AIDS because they’re too pretty. Satan is beautiful. It’s called the Beauty of the Devil. Crack addicts look really good.

    Ah! That explains a lot. You have a magic mirror.

    Interesting.

  187. avatar
    richCares January 24, 2012 at 11:13 am #

    a lot of Geir’s post that spout garbage, please stop giving him the opportunity of spouting no answer to him please!more, just ignore him, his anylist does!

  188. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 11:14 am #

    richCares: a lot of Geir’s post that spout garbage, please stop giving him the opportunity of spouting no answer to him please!more, just ignore him, his anylist does!

    Leave my anylist alone.

  189. avatar
    Majority Will January 24, 2012 at 11:14 am #

    Geir Smith: Majority Will: That’s some serious psychological projection you have going on there.

    Openly insulting the host of a private blog and calling people you don’t know meth addicts, idiots and traitors is certainly ugly, hypocritical and strangely pompous.

    Do you own a mirror?

    If you wern’t uptight you won’t get hissy.

    So, you wouldn’t mind if a stranger walked into your home, crapped on your living room rug and then laughed in your face?

  190. avatar
    Majority Will January 24, 2012 at 11:17 am #

    Geir Smith: Did I say something that got you mad?

    You’re kidding, right?

    I assumed you don’t have the attention span of a fruit fly.

  191. avatar
    JoZeppy January 24, 2012 at 11:18 am #

    Geir Smith: The only one who doesn’t want the truth to be known is someone with something to hide.

    The truth is already well known, to everyone but a bunch of pathalogical nut bags. Just because no one wants to continue to play with these nutters that will be never satisfied is evidence of nothing.

    Geir Smith: Even Doc Conspiracy said today Obama’s Attorney should produce the paper document.

    I would agree. It’s the easiest way to end the hearing. A simple certified copy from the state of Hawaii, whether it’s a long or short form is sufficient to conclusively end the need to carry on with the hearing (unless one of them are contending that the President hasn’t resided in the US long enough). Personally, if I was the President’s attorney, I’d offer a short form into evidence, just to poke a sharp pointy stick at Orly…but I’m that kind of a guy.

    Geir Smith: He said he had found it folded in a book used as a bookmark in his grandmother’s attic.

    The copy he found in his grandmother’s attic is totally irrelevant. Any certified copy from the State of Hawaii has the same effect.

    Geir Smith: Is it me or does this all smell a rat?

    Probably has something to do with your current living conditions.

  192. avatar
    y_p_w January 24, 2012 at 11:20 am #

    Geir Smith: Explanation: in “Dreams of my Father” he said he had found it his grandma’s house.

    Yes – and what makes you think he’s still got it?

    I can’t find a whole boatload of stuff that I remember seeing as a teenager. That includes my old HS report cards, my college acceptance letters, my government applications (SSN, passport application, etc), and so on.

    Legally a birth certificate is a birth certificate. If a certified copy can’t be located, one goes to a government agency and requests another one.

    Have you ever been to court before? Stuff entered into evidence is usually tagged with a sticker marking it as Exhibit A/B/C. If only one particular document is acceptable (and new ones aren’t) then the same one can’t be used for another hearing. It’s not going to be possible to handle it being constantly recycled, especially if it’s old and tattered.

    The court doesn’t care either. That’s because state laws say that one certified copy is as good as any other as to the facts contained.

  193. avatar
    Judge Mental January 24, 2012 at 11:21 am #

    Geir Smith: Yeah, well there are THREE of them and five ballot challenges in total distributed by the Ballot Commissioner to five different Georgia judges.

    Slow down, you’re making less and sense the more you rush to answer.

    The above is utter nonsense, including on a math basis. More than 5 referred ballot challenges are involved in the 3 hearings scheduled in Malihi’s court on the 26th alone, let alone any others that may crop up later.

  194. avatar
    JoZeppy January 24, 2012 at 11:23 am #

    Geir Smith: Yeah, well there are THREE of them and five ballot challenges in total distributed by the Ballot Commissioner to five different Georgia judges.

    What’s the difference if it’s one, three, five, or fifty. They’re all based on the same junk law and bogus “facts”, thus all being frivolous.

  195. avatar
    Arthur January 24, 2012 at 11:27 am #

    After reading the flurry of exchanges above, I reminded of a bit of doggerel that Tom Bombadil shared with Frodo:

    Trolls that are fed,
    Ne’er go to bed.
    They stay up and type
    And wrangle and fight.

    But a troll denied comments
    Must consume what it vomits.
    So do not respond
    And in time he’ll move on.

  196. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 24, 2012 at 11:31 am #

    There are three administrative hearings on Thursday, but only one in which a subpoena for President Obama was issued.

    Geir Smith: Mr Dork, there are THREE trial on Thursady [sic].

  197. avatar
    Judge Mental January 24, 2012 at 11:32 am #

    Geir Smith: I thot you were a birther. Haskins’ paying half the money for full live coverage of the three events on Jan 26.

    ….and how exactly would that make him ‘allied’ with Taitz?…… she’s not paying ther half…..and it’s patently obvious from his strong criticism of her on his website this week (which you obviously have not read) that he will be positively filled with glee if she gets egg all over her face on a video feed that he’s contributing to.

  198. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 24, 2012 at 11:33 am #

    I always regretted that Bombadil didn’t make it into the movie.

    Arthur: After reading the flurry of exchanges above, I reminded of a bit of doggerel that Tom Bombadil shared with Frodo:

  199. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 24, 2012 at 11:34 am #

    Well, two are based on junk law and one is based on junk law and junk facts.

    JoZeppy: What’s the difference if it’s one, three, five, or fifty. They’re all based on the same junk law and bogus “facts”, thus all being frivolous.

  200. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 24, 2012 at 11:48 am #

    Let me mention that there is some general confusion where some birthers believe that one gets an original birth certificate at birth, and then can order certified copies later in life if they lose it.

    Actually, one gets a certified copy any time they get a birth certificate. Some hospitals issue souvenir birth certificates to parents, but they have no legal validity except as secondary evidence (along with medical records, family Bible, witness affidavits) when no certified copy exists.

    Whatever young Obama saw, it is no more probative than the Certification of Live Birth, a picture of which he posted in 2008. If what he saw was a hospital souvenir, then it is not even an official state document, and of no relevance.

    Geir Smith: Explanation: in “Dreams of my Father” he said he had found it his grandma’s house.

  201. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 24, 2012 at 11:50 am #

    Me too. I do, however, have the hospital bill for my birth. $28, paid in cash.

    y_p_w: I can’t find a whole boatload of stuff that I remember seeing as a teenager.

  202. avatar
    Daniel January 24, 2012 at 11:55 am #

    Geir Smith: Daniel

    I’m a conservative that votes Republican. I don’t support Obama’s political agenda, but that doesn’t mean I’m stupid enough to be a birther.

  203. avatar
    Daniel January 24, 2012 at 12:17 pm #

    Geir Smith: I don’t discuss with ignorant ugly posters.

    Don’t like competition?

  204. avatar
    Daniel January 24, 2012 at 12:22 pm #

    Geir Smith: Haskins’ paying half the money for full live coverage of the three events on Jan 26.

    Half the cost of a web cam and a 3g dongle? Big deal.

  205. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 12:31 pm #

    This story is evolving and what we say isn’t definitive. It’s changing hour by hour. Right now BeforeitsNews where Doc and I post has the Georgia story going to all Categories, like here in the “Alternaitve” Category new types ofpeople are getting onboard this story.

    [I don't post at BeforeItsNews. They republish the content of ObamaConspiracy.org. Doc]

    Don’t think anything is nailed down and definitve, the general public, We the People, will decide all by themselves.

    http://members.beforeitsnews.com/story/1668/453/Obama_Ordered_to_a_Georgia_Court_This_Thursday_-_to_Answer_Birth_Certificate_and_Natural_Born_Citizen_Suit.html

    Obama Ordered to a Georgia Court This Thursday – to Answer ‘Birth Certificate and Natural Born Citizen’ Suit
    mardi 24 janvier 2012 17:42:49

    One Judge in the states has balls. Even though Obama’s attorneys tried to get this case dismissed and then tried to get the subpoena dismissed for him to show up to court in Georgia, the Judge held his ground and said “No.”
    Obama has been ordered to show up to court in Georgia to answer the case filed against him for not being a “Natural Born Citizen” and having a fake birth certificate …. Read more at sherriequestioningall.blogspot.com

    [Obama was not ordered to appear Thursday, and he doesn't have to answer claims about fake birth certificates. He need only show he's eligible. Doc]

    Read more at luismmx
    ————–

    I just posted there.

  206. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 12:34 pm #

    y_p_w: I can’t find a whole boatload of stuff that I remember seeing as a teenager. That includes my old HS report cards, my college acceptance letters, my government applications (SSN, passport application, etc), and so on.

    Legally a birth certificate is a birth certificate. If a certified copy can’t be located, one goes to a government agency and requests another one.

    Have you ever been to court before? Stuff entered into evidence is usually tagged with a sticker marking it as Exhibit A/B/C. If only one particular document is acceptable (and new ones aren’t) then the same one can’t be used for another hearing. It’s not going to be possible to handle it being constantly recycled, especially if it’s old and tattered.

    The court doesn’t care either. That’s because state laws say that one certified copy is as good as any other as to the facts contained.

    It just so happens that I know about the Vital Records’ Registrar’s docs. I obtained my own CT birth certificate several times already.

  207. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 12:37 pm #

    JoZeppy: Geir Smith: The only one who doesn’t want the truth to be known is someone with something to hide.

    The truth is already well known, to everyone but a bunch of pathalogical nut bags. Just because no one wants to continue to play with these nutters that will be never satisfied is evidence of nothing.

    Geir Smith: Even Doc Conspiracy said today Obama’s Attorney should produce the paper document.

    I would agree. It’s the easiest way to end the hearing. A simple certified copy from the state of Hawaii, whether it’s a long or short form is sufficient to conclusively end the need to carry on with the hearing (unless one of them are contending that the President hasn’t resided in the US long enough). Personally, if I was the President’s attorney, I’d offer a short form into evidence, just to poke a sharp pointy stick at Orly…but I’m that kind of a guy.

    Geir Smith: He said he had found it folded in a book used as a bookmark in his grandmother’s attic.

    The copy he found in his grandmother’s attic is totally irrelevant. Any certified copy from the State of Hawaii has the same effect.

    Geir Smith: Is it me or does this all smell a rat?

    Probably has something to do with your current living conditions.

    Let’s leave this up to professionals ok.

    [Uhhh, JoJeppy is a lawyer. Doc]

  208. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 12:43 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Me too. I do, however, have the hospital bill for my birth. $28, paid in cash.

    the original old BC paper document photographed in black in white?

  209. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 12:45 pm #

    Doc closed this thread because of too much heat.

    “Heat” is not the word I would have chosen. “Bickering” is more what I had in mind. The thread isn’t closed. I’m just moderating you, deleting petty insults and off topic comments. Doc]

  210. avatar
    y_p_w January 24, 2012 at 12:58 pm #

    Daniel: Half the cost of a web cam and a 3g dongle? Big deal.

    I think something like this typically requires that someone pay for bandwidth from the originating server. They’re probably routing it to the server, which will then reproduce it umpteen times to the interwebs.

  211. avatar
    y_p_w January 24, 2012 at 1:04 pm #

    Geir Smith: the original old BC paper document photographed in black in white?

    Again, what’s so hard to understand about it?

    If he (or his family) had it at one time, it probably long gone by now. Since he was a teenager, he’s gone to at least four schools, taking multiple government and private sector jobs, and had multiple addresses.

    The document you speak of was in the custody of his relatives, and who knows what happened to it. The court sure as heck doesn’t care. It considers another certified copy to be functionally equivalent for any legal purpose before the court.

    Asking for that would be like asking for him to produce an extracted wisdom tooth that he might have mentioned in his autobiography.

  212. avatar
    y_p_w January 24, 2012 at 1:26 pm #

    Geir Smith: It just so happens that I know about the Vital Records’ Registrar’s docs. I obtained my own CT birth certificate several times already.

    So have you been informed that only a **specific** copy is acceptable?

    It’s not as if it’s a 100% surefire – “yeah that’s the one” way to prove such a thing anyways. I haven’t seen any evidence that Hawaii has any means of identifying a specific copy. California uses banknote style paper where each sheet has a unique serial number. I ordered multiple copies of my kid’s birth certificate, and the receipt even has the “banknote number” for each copy. Hawaii hasn’t gone this route recently, and I’m not sure if they did even when they were using banknote style paper.

  213. avatar
    Northland10 January 24, 2012 at 1:27 pm #

    I have an old certified copy of mine from the 70s. However, I recall reading that I could not user it in various places due to its age and lack of security paper. It would be to easy to forge without security features. Of course, nobody could ever get the original but the vital records department.

    <blockquote cite="comment-149747"

    Geir Smith: the original old BC paper document photographed in black in white?

  214. avatar
    Rickey January 24, 2012 at 1:53 pm #

    y_p_w:
    There are so many different titles for certified birth records out there:

    Certification of Birth
    Certified Birth Record
    Certification of Live Birth
    Certificate of Live Birth
    Certificate of Birth
    Birth Certificate
    Birth Certification
    Birth Record
    Certified Transcript of Birth (NYC has this one)
    Report of Birth (this is an old title from Illinois)
    Standard Certificate of Birth (from an old California form)
    Certified Copy of Birth Certificate
    Certified Birth Abstract
    Certificate (now that’s specific)
    A Transcript from the Record of Births

    In New York State (excluding NYC, which issues it own birth certificates) it is called a “Certificate of Birth Registration.”

  215. avatar
    y_p_w January 24, 2012 at 1:57 pm #

    Northland10: I have an old certified copy of mine from the 70s. However, I recall reading that I could not user it in various places due to its age and lack of security paper. It would be to easy to forge without security features. Of course, nobody could ever get the original but the vital records department.<blockquote cite=”comment-149747″Geir Smith: the original old BC paper document photographed in black in white?

    The State Dept has tightened its standards many times. There’s the Puerto Rico situation, but that’s a case where Puerto Rico is invalidating their own birth certificate. The State Dept used to be more lenient – even accepting hospital souvenirs and certain forms without any kind of embossed or multi-colored seal. There was a guy here who said he was a passport adjudicator, and part of the reason for this was changed was because a lot of hospitals had their offices burglarized to get the materials to make the so-called certificates. I’ve heard of people using the old California Abstract of Birth, which was on small banknote-looking paper, but didn’t even contain any kind of seal.

    Of course there’s no evidence that Hawaii hasn’t issued BCs fully compliant with the current requirements for the past 30 or so years.

    I suppose if one had a photostat from the 60s complete with seal, it could be used to obtain a first-time passport. However, I don’t know why anyone would want to do that with an irreplaceable document (i.e. photostats are extremely rare). They mail them back using ordinary 1st class mail, and they’re typically haphazard in folding them. I just got my kid a passport and passport card. I knew the birth certificate was going to come back folded (my docs were returned folded when I got my first passport) so I meticulously folded one BC copy such that the creases weren’t across any of the information and the folded copy would fit in a #10 business size envelope.. To their credit, it was returned with it folded right where I made the creases (I was worried they might fold it in half just to mess with me) but they reversed one of the creases.

    I think it might be possible to get a copy of the original or sometimes even inspect it. What I want is to know the state file number on my marriage license/certificate. For some reason, California makes it tough to order a marriage license copy. They only do so for certain years, and even for those years they say the typical wait time is up to 6 months. They claim that it’s because they have a heavy demand for birth certificates (up to 6 weeks). They also recommend that people go to the county for vital records because the wait times are typically shorter (often same day/minutes in person), and because all counties have public counters to accept applications.

  216. avatar
    Daniel January 24, 2012 at 1:58 pm #

    Rickey: In New York State (excluding NYC, which issues it own birth certificates) it is called a “Certificate of Birth Registration.”

    In birtherstan it’s known as “Incubation and hatching record” ;-)

  217. avatar
    Daniel January 24, 2012 at 2:02 pm #

    y_p_w: I think something like this typically requires that someone pay for bandwidth from the originating server.They’re probably routing it to the server, which will then reproduce it umpteen times to the interwebs.

    It really depends on how they decide to do it. At the low end of the scale all you really need is a webcam and an internet connection, and then stream the video to any one of a multitude of broadcast providers who will host it in real time for free.

    The 3g dongle is necessary to send the video to the server, unless the courthouse has a free wireless connection. If the person doing the feed already has a webcam and a 3g dongle, or previously mentioned wireless connection, the real cost to stream the proceedings would be exactly zero.

  218. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 2:05 pm #

    y_p_w: So have you been informed that only a **specific** copy is acceptable?

    It’s not as if it’s a 100% surefire – “yeah that’s the one” way to prove such a thing anyways. I haven’t seen any evidence that Hawaii has any means of identifying a specific copy. California uses banknote style paper where each sheet has a unique serial number. I ordered multiple copies of my kid’s birth certificate, and the receipt even has the “banknote number” for each copy. Hawaii hasn’t gone this route recently, and I’m not sure if they did even when they were using banknote style paper.

    Where there’s smoke there’s fire. Something’s fishy with Obama and I’m happy the general public is onto him.

  219. avatar
    y_p_w January 24, 2012 at 2:08 pm #

    Daniel: It really depends on how they decide to do it. At the low end of the scale all you really need is a webcam and an internet connection, and then stream the video to any one of a multitude of broadcast providers who will host it in real time for free.The 3g dongle is necessary to send the video to the server, unless the courthouse has a free wireless connection. If the person doing the feed already has a webcam and a 3g dongle, or previously mentioned wireless connection, the real cost to stream the proceedings would be exactly zero.

    OK. I guess it could be routed through justin.tv or any number of different services. However, I was thinking of what a large corporation would do, which is actually pay for the server bandwidth.

    I remember hearing about one of the early attempts to do this on a large scale. Victoria’s Secret had some sort of show during halftime during the Super Bowl. Their servers came crashing because they hadn’t reserved enough server bandwith to cover all the requests.

  220. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 2:09 pm #

    y_p_w: Again, what’s so hard to understand about it?

    If he (or his family) had it at one time, it probably long gone by now. Since he was a teenager, he’s gone to at least four schools, taking multiple government and private sector jobs, and had multiple addresses.

    The document you speak of was in the custody of his relatives, and who knows what happened to it. The court sure as heck doesn’t care. It considers another certified copy to be functionally equivalent for any legal purpose before the court.

    Asking for that would be like asking for him to produce an extracted wisdom tooth that he might have mentioned in his autobiography.

    Have you told Orly Taitz you know that? She’ll call you to stand seeing you know where it is. everybody’s looking for it and here at Obamaconpsiracy.org, Big news “ypw” knows who has it and where. Thanks for finding it “vpw”. You can’t imagine! I’ve waited three years and more for this moment. T H A N K Y O U.

  221. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 24, 2012 at 2:11 pm #

    Sometimes when there’s smoke, there’s just somebody blowing smoke.

    Geir Smith: Where there’s smoke there’s fire. Something’s fishy with Obama and I’m happy the general public is onto him.

  222. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 2:13 pm #

    y_p_w: OK. I guess it could be routed through justin.tv or any number of different services. However, I was thinking of what a large corporation would do, which is actually pay for the server bandwidth.

    I remember hearing about one of the early attempts to do this on a large scale. Victoria’s Secret had some sort of show during halftime during the Super Bowl. Their servers came crashing because they hadn’t reserved enough server bandwith [sic] to cover all the requests.

    Is the MSM going to attend?

    What’s the matter? Google not working in France? Doc.]

  223. avatar
    Daniel January 24, 2012 at 2:14 pm #

    Geir Smith: I’m happy the general public is onto him.

    Sorry, but the general public still doesn’t care about birther delusions.

  224. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 2:18 pm #

    http://members.beforeitsnews.com/story/1668/048/Will_Obama_Show_Up_At_Eligibility_Hearing.html

    Will Obama Show Up At Eligibility Hearing?

    Judge wants president in Atlanta courtroom Thursday

    [What followed appears to be a dump of material from another web site without permission. It has been deleted. If someone wants to read it, follow the link. Doc.]

  225. avatar
    Daniel January 24, 2012 at 2:20 pm #

    y_p_w: OK.I guess it could be routed through justin.tv or any number of different services.However, I was thinking of what a large corporation would do, which is actually pay for the server bandwidth.

    I remember hearing about one of the early attempts to do this on a large scale.Victoria’s Secret had some sort of show during halftime during the Super Bowl. Their servers came crashing because they hadn’t reserved enough server bandwith to cover all the requests.

    I certainly agree that there’s a high quality, guaranteed uptime, commercially viable way to stream an event to 200 million people. That kind of a production costs money, no question.

    IMHO I don’t think we’re going to see that out of people who can’t manage more than a dozen to their “millions strong” rallies. I think you’re going to see one guy with a laptop and a webcam, and at best a thousand or so people accessing the stream.

    I could be wrong.

  226. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 2:20 pm #

    [If you dump whole articles from another web site again, you will be banned permanently and forever from this web site. Doc]
    YOU PEOPLE COULD GET A CHANCE TO GO AFTER BIRTHERS FOR REAL! good?

    WashingtonAmerica.Com challenges fogbow to birther debate…

    Scott Erlandson, owner of WashingtonAmerica.Com has challenged fogbow.com to a no holds barred two hour open topic birther debate, against william bryant (foggy), frank arduini, and the fogbow website.

    [material deleted]

    update: this has been tentatively schedualed for february 21st at 8pm

    http://members.beforeitsnews.com/story/1667/905/WashingtonAmerica.Com_challenges_fogbow_to_birther_debate….html

  227. avatar
    y_p_w January 24, 2012 at 2:22 pm #

    Rickey: In New York State (excluding NYC, which issues it own birth certificates) it is called a “Certificate of Birth Registration.”

    I could never figure out why NYC does things so differently. They’re the only city I know of with a vital statistics office that serves as the final archivist for vital records. Of course now they’re moving to purely electronic record keeping. Welcome to the Third Millenium NYC.

    http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/vr/vr-ebrs.shtml

  228. avatar
    y_p_w January 24, 2012 at 2:36 pm #

    Geir Smith: Have you told Orly Taitz you know that? She’ll call you to stand seeing you know where it is. everybody’s looking for it and here at Obamaconpsiracy.org, Big news “ypw” knows who has it and where. Thanks for finding it “vpw”. You can’t imagine! I’ve waited three years and more for this moment. T H A N K Y O U.

    When did I say I knew where it was.

    She wants to call me to the stand? Sure. Pay me the standard witness fee and travel expenses, and I’ll tell the court what I know. I don’t know if they’ll accept me as an expert, but as long as I’m paid, I guess I’ll be their expert.

    Which is that for any legal purposes, I understand that a certified birth certificate is a certified birth certificate whether or not it was printed 40-50 years ago or the day before.

    Which is that for my kid’s passport application, the State Dept didn’t care that I use a certified copy obtained less than a month after birth from the city, another certified copy obtained less than 6 months after birth from the county, or yet another certified copy obtained over a year after birth from the state.

    I guess it could be like A Few Good Men, where a couple of Air Force enlisted personnel were waiting in military courtroom, even though the attorney later told someone that they would have had nothing to offer.

    You know, I’d really like to see any of the attorneys actually insist that only a specific birth certificate copy would be acceptable before the court. I really want to see that just to find out how the judge reacts. Seriously – one of the attorneys (not Orly) did issue subpoena request for Obama to produce one of the two copies dated April 25, 2011 of his long form.

  229. avatar
    G January 24, 2012 at 2:37 pm #

    Same here. But I understand why the decision was made and why it would have been difficult to mesh into the flow of the movie. Looking forward to what Jackson does with his 2-part “The Hobbit”! So far, the trailer is very promising.

    Dr. Conspiracy: I always regretted that Bombadil didn’t make it into the movie.

  230. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 2:39 pm #

    y_p_w: When did I say I knew where it was.

    She wants to call me to the stand? Sure. Pay me the standard witness fee and travel expenses, and I’ll tell the court what I know. I don’t know if they’ll accept me as an expert, but as long as I’m paid, I guess I’ll be their expert.

    Which is that for any legal purposes, I understand that a certified birth certificate is a certified birth certificate whether or not it was printed 40-50 years ago or the day before.

    Which is that for my kid’s passport application, the State Dept didn’t care that I use a certified copy obtained less than a month after birth from the city, another certified copy obtained less than 6 months after birth from the county, or yet another certified copy obtained over a year after birth from the state.

    I guess it could be like A Few Good Men, where a couple of Air Force enlisted personnel were waiting in military courtroom, even though the attorney later told someone that they would have had nothing to offer.

    You know, I’d really like to see any of the attorneys actually insist that only a specific birth certificate copy would be acceptable before the court. I really want to see that just to find out how the judge reacts. Seriously – one of the attorneys (not Orly) did issue subpoena request for Obama to produce one of the two copies dated April 25, 2011 of his long form.

    Don’t look at the small picture. Look at the big picture. There’ll be fifty people in the courtroom but 50 million outside watching.

  231. avatar
    G January 24, 2012 at 2:40 pm #

    Well said.

    Dr. Conspiracy: Sometimes when there’s smoke, there’s just somebody blowing smoke.

  232. avatar
    G January 24, 2012 at 2:43 pm #

    Agreed. I have done as you asked. Besides, there was nothing new in what was being said, that hadn’t already been said several times before… so there isn’t anything new to say anyways…

    richCares: G, no more with Geir OK? it’s off topic anyway!

  233. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 24, 2012 at 2:49 pm #

    Dream on.

    Geir Smith: Don’t look at the small picture. Look at the big picture. There’ll [sic] be fifty people in the courtroom but 50 million outside watching.

  234. avatar
    y_p_w January 24, 2012 at 3:02 pm #

    Geir Smith: Don’t look at the small picture. Look at the big picture. There’ll be fifty people in the courtroom but 50 million outside watching.

    But the small picture is that the only thing that really matters is the judge. The only reason why he would admit a certified birth certificate copy as evidence is to establish facts. The only facts that he’ll allow to be brought up will be the information on the page.

    Again, what court in the United States only allows a specific referenced copy to be used as evidence? Not any court I know of.

  235. avatar
    Majority Will January 24, 2012 at 3:10 pm #

    Geir Smith: WashingtonAmerica.Com challenges fogbow to birther debate…

    Watching SpongeBob SquarePants debate attorneys on issues of Constitutional law would be just as ludicrous but far more entertaining.

    Will Scott be dressed up as Bernardine Rae Dohrn? That might raise the entertainment value a little bit.

  236. avatar
    y_p_w January 24, 2012 at 3:14 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Dream on.

    I’m thinking of this like the USCIS Form I-9. They require that an employer verify proof of eligibility to work in the US via a list of acceptable identifiation and eligibility documents. An employer is not allowed to specify a specific document or set of documents. One can use a Social Security card, passport or passport card, US birth certificate, etc, and the empployer can’t mandate which one is acceptable.

    The court isn’t going to mandate that only a photostat or photocopy version that was found within the pages of a book is the only one valid for these proceedings. I don’t even think the request by one of the parties for one of the specific copies from the WH press conference is going to go well with the judge.

    I guess he can ask his grandma where the book is. Except that she’s dead now. I guess the conspiracy theorists will be saying that Obama had something to do with Madelyn Dunham dying from cancer.

  237. avatar
    Majority Will January 24, 2012 at 3:22 pm #

    y_p_w: I guess the conspiracy theorists will be saying that Obama had something to do with Madelyn Dunham dying from cancer.

    They have. Many times on sites like freerepublic.com and other birther cesspools.

  238. avatar
    sfjeff January 24, 2012 at 3:41 pm #

    Having tried to debate Washington/Scott many, many times in forums like this….

    I do not see this going well. Scott just can’t stay on point. I suspect Fogbow will ignore him, because they will consider that no real debate will be possible, just Scott spouting his conspiracy theories and ignoring the actual evidence.

  239. avatar
    Rickey January 24, 2012 at 3:49 pm #

    y_p_w: I could never figure out why NYC does things so differently.They’re the only city I know of with a vital statistics office that serves as the final archivist for vital records.Of course now they’re moving to purely electronic record keeping.Welcome to the Third Millenium NYC.

    Yeah, the city maintains its own death certificates, as well. It can be a pain in the butt to obtain a death certificate because you have to know where the person died. A death in NYC means that the city has the death certificate. A death anywhere else in the state and the death certificate is in Albany.

  240. avatar
    Rickey January 24, 2012 at 4:01 pm #

    y_p_w:

    Again, what court in the United States only allows a specific referenced copy to be used as evidence?Not any court I know of.

    And we don’t even know if the birth certificate which Obama saw when he was in high school was a real birth certificate or a hospital souvenir. Presumably he found it among his mother’s records, because he also found a newspaper story about his father and his vaccination records. When I was in high school things such as birth certificates and vaccination records were kept by my parents for safekeeping, not by me and my siblings.

    Whatever it was, it’s possible that Obama still has it, but it’s also possible that it was lost or destroyed. He was writing about something which happened more than 30 years ago.

  241. avatar
    y_p_w January 24, 2012 at 4:29 pm #

    Speaking of the subpoena form on their website, it’s now reported that the subpoena is no longer available. Not quite. Someone or something changed the listed filename on the website to “subpoena.pdf” (brings up a 404 error) when it should be “subpoena.doc”.

    It’s still there, but I have no idea who’s messing with the website.

  242. avatar
    Keith January 24, 2012 at 4:41 pm #

    Geir Smith: Keith

    This isn’t a reporting site. Its one man’s personal blog. What is ‘reported’ is what Doc is interested in reporting. We all try, with varying degrees of success, to stay within the bounds of Doc’s topics.

  243. avatar
    Keith January 24, 2012 at 4:45 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: From the witness list, I don’t see that any experts will be at the trial on Thursday. For details, see my article:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/01/expert-witnesses-in-georgia/

    Geir Smith: Let the experts talk at the trial Thursday.

    The Judge and the Lawyers will be just about the only ones speaking, so, leaving out Orly, there might be two experts.

  244. avatar
    y_p_w January 24, 2012 at 5:03 pm #

    Rickey: Whatever it was, it’s possible that Obama still has it, but it’s also possible that it was lost or destroyed. He was writing about something which happened more than 30 years ago.

    I’m not even sure what he would have ever seen his own birth certificate if he needed to apply for a driver license, SSN card. It almost sounded as if he’d never seen it (assuming it was a government issued one) before until opening that book.

    If he had his own passport at a young age, it could have been obtained by his mother with him barely remembering what papers were submitted. He was probably also on one of his mother’s passports, back when a child could be listed on a parental passport. He definitely traveled to Indonesia at a young age, so I’m sure he was listed on some passport.

    Once you have a passport in your own name, that itself can be proof of citizenship and age needed for a SSN application, a driver license application, proof of age/status for school, passport renewal, etc. You’d almost never need a birth certificate again, except for some organizations (Little League Baseball is one) that specifically require a certified birth certificate as proof of age. They’re not even using it as proof of status. They simply want proof of age, and will accept a foreign birth certificate – properly translated if need be. Their rules specifically state that they don’t consider a passport to be a valid age verification document.

  245. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 5:31 pm #

    Keith: The Judge and the Lawyers will be just about the only ones speaking, so, leaving out Orly, there might be two experts.

    Vetting the president is We The People’s responsability and Duty. Count the 50 million Live Viewers, they’re the Masses. No matter what the outcome of Georgia that’s just one step of the way and the People will finally get the last word. They’ll follow this by live coverage.

    Does anyone know what MSM will be there. Google’s not providing that info here in France. Maybe you Obots have insider info from the CIA.

    [Maybe some local affiliate stations will show up. I'm pretty sure the Atlanta Journal Constitution will have a reporter. However, yet another birher lawsuit isn't much of a story. Doc.]

  246. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 5:34 pm #

    G: Agreed. I have done as you asked. Besides, there was nothing new in what was being said, that hadn’t already been said several times before… so there isn’t anything new to say anyways…

    Agreed, we should start getting new info about how many people will be viewing this and spreading this good news – of Obama in court, – to the whole wide world – to all.

  247. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 5:37 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Dream on.

    Geir Smith: Don’t look at the small picture. Look at the big picture. There’ll [sic] be fifty people in the courtroom but 50 million outside watching.

    My bad. “Obama’s Day In Court” will be far greater news than that. I think it’ll be like Watergate but 1000 times bigger. Nuremburg today would garner many billions of viewers.

    The Obama Final Trial will probably garner millions daily for several years.

    You’re right I’m wrong. I stand corrected.

  248. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 5:39 pm #

    y_p_w: But the small picture is that the only thing that really matters is the judge. The only reason why he would admit a certified birth certificate copy as evidence is to establish facts. The only facts that he’ll allow to be brought up will be the information on the page.

    Again, what court in the United States only allows a specific referenced copy to be used as evidence? Not any court I know of.

    True, only the judge counts in this, he’s the one who’s ramping up the volume. He’s asked for a full list of docs. SS too.

    [One notes that Geir Smith is continuing to spread the same false rumors that the article talks about. Doc.]

  249. avatar
    thisoldhippie January 24, 2012 at 5:40 pm #

    Geir Smith is an evil troll who does nothing but repeat the same lie over and over again. He is definitely nothing but a crazy religious nutter who “studies” bogus books and internet websites and decides he is an expert.

    With regard to birth certificates – I have recently had to order one for each of my family members from different states and they are all different. I have an original copy that is clearly marked “not a certified copy” but is stamped in red that it came from the dept of vital statistics in Tennesse in November 1962. This is what I have used my entire life to get my driver’s license and my social security card. It is a white on black copy of the form filled out and filed with the state. I had to have a certified copy and found out in Tennessee that you can go to any county health department and get a certified “short form” that does not have your parents’ names or hospital – only your name and county and date of birth. If you need the long form you must request it from vital statistics in Nashville.

    I ordered my daughters’ from the local health departments in the counties in which they were born in Georgia. I received certified copies of the form I filled out and signed at their birth. If I had ordered them from the state I would have received a certified short form.

    I ordered my husband’s from the state of Florida because I didn’t know what county he was born in. We received a certified short form similar to the President’s. Each of these will be acceptable when we board for our cruise to the Bahamas later this week and are also acceptable for getting a passport.

  250. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 5:46 pm #

    If Newt’s Divorce is Fair Game, So is Obama’s Cocaine Use

    Jan 24, 2012 11:00 AM EST

    Townhall.com Staff
    Blogger, Townhall.com

    CNN’s John King was correct to bring up Newt Gingrich’s divorce and his ex-wife’s comments about “open marriage.” Discussions of the candidates personal life are fair game to allow the public to fully understand the character of those that want to run in this next Presidential election.

    But Barack Obama’s prior Cocaine use MUST also be viewed as fair game for press inquiries, and the press should begin probing now.
    cont…

    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/townhallcomstaff/2012/01/24/if_newts_divorce_is_fair_game_so_is_obamas_cocaine_use

  251. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 5:52 pm #

    If Obama doesn’t show up then a new action will be filed against him concerning contempt of court and then he’ll be charged with contempt.
    ——–
    ‘Birther’ lawyer doesn’t expect to see Obama
    The Daily Report ^ | Tuesday, January 24, 2012 | Mark Niesse

    Posted on mardi 24 janvier 2012 20:14:17 by SteveH

    Attorney for Georgia voter questions president’s ballot eligibility

    Judge Michael Malihi: Obama failed to outline legal authority for argument to quash subpoena.

    An attorney for a Georgia voter questioning President Barack Obama’s eligibility for the March 6 primary said the president probably won’t attend a hearing on the issue Thursday, even though a subpoena compelling his appearance stands.

    Van R. Irion, who represents plaintiff David Welden, acknowledged Monday that Obama likely will avoid the trial-like proceeding before Georgia Office of State Administrative Hearings Deputy Chief Judge Michael M. Malihi.

    [...]

    “I fully expect Mr. Jablonski to refile on behalf of the president a renewed motion to quash with some citations, and I expect that would probably be granted,” said Irion.

    [...]

    “I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see a contempt order come out if in fact Mr. Obama doesn’t show up and if he doesn’t renew his motion to quash and get it granted,” Irion said.

  252. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 5:58 pm #

    y_p_w: I’m not even sure what he would have ever seen his own birth certificate if he needed to apply for a driver license, SSN card. It almost sounded as if he’d never seen it (assuming it was a government issued one) before until opening that book.

    If he had his own passport at a young age, it could have been obtained by his mother with him barely remembering what papers were submitted. He was probably also on one of his mother’s passports, back when a child could be listed on a parental passport. He definitely traveled to Indonesia at a young age, so I’m sure he was listed on some passport.

    Once you have a passport in your own name, that itself can be proof of citizenship and age needed for a SSN application, a driver license application, proof of age/status for school, passport renewal, etc. You’d almost never need a birth certificate again, except for some organizations (Little League Baseball is one) that specifically require a certified birth certificate as proof of age. They’re not even using it as proof of status. They simply want proof of age, and will accept a foreign birth certificate – properly translated if need be. Their rules specifically state that they don’t consider a passport to be a valid age verification document.

    This isn’t about Obama being “just about legit”, the nuclear codes are not approximately dangerous. We have to be 100% sure of the POTUS’ vetting. Only 99,99% is not acceptable and registers as FAILED.

  253. avatar
    Rickey January 24, 2012 at 6:00 pm #

    y_p_w: I’m not even sure what he would have ever seen his own birth certificate if he needed to apply for a driver license, SSN card.It almost sounded as if he’d never seen it (assuming it was a government issued one) before until opening that book.

    If he had his own passport at a young age, it could have been obtained by his mother with him barely remembering what papers were submitted.He was probably also on one of his mother’s passports, back when a child could be listed on a parental passport.He definitely traveled to Indonesia at a young age, so I’m sure he was listed on some passport.

    Once you have a passport in your own name, that itself can be proof of citizenship and age needed for a SSN application, a driver license application, proof of age/status for school, passport renewal, etc.You’d almost never need a birth certificate again, except for some organizations (Little League Baseball is one) that specifically require a certified birth certificate as proof of age.They’re not even using it as proof of status.They simply want proof of age, and will accept a foreign birth certificate – properly translated if need be.Their rules specifically state that they don’t consider a passport to be a valid age verification document.

    Obama would have had his own passport by the time he flew alone back to Hawaii to stay with his grandparents, so you may be correct that he never needed his birth certificate to prove his age. I didn’t even need my birth certificate to play Little League. In those days it never occurred to anyone to lie about their age to play baseball, and besides I lived in a small town where everyone knew everyone else.

  254. avatar
    y_p_w January 24, 2012 at 6:02 pm #

    thisoldhippie: With regard to birth certificates – I have recently had to order one for each of my family members from different states and they are all different. I have an original copy that is clearly marked “not a certified copy” but is stamped in red that it came from the dept of vital statistics in Tennesse in November 1962. This is what I have used my entire life to get my driver’s license and my social security card. It is a white on black copy of the form filled out and filed with the state. I had to have a certified copy and found out in Tennessee that you can go to any county health department and get a certified “short form” that does not have your parents’ names or hospital – only your name and county and date of birth. If you need the long form you must request it from vital statistics in Nashville.

    I’m pretty sure that most agencies or organizations that can take birth certificates are tighter about requirements for acceptance these days. There was a time when a hospital souvenir could be used to obtain a passport. If they see anything that marks a certificate as unofficial or informational, almost no agency will accept it.

    It sounds like the certificate you got might have been a free unofficial copy. New York City actually provides one free full certified (abstract) copy mailed to the parents as soon as the record is the city’s health dept archives.

    California has open birth records. It used to be possible for anyone to order a full certified birth certificate; state law actually prohibited vital records staff from asking for ID. At least that’s until they became aware of several people who obtained random birth certificates from people where they were able to figure out name and DOB. Then they were used to establish a new life by getting a SSN, driver license, passport, etc. Since 2001 only an “informational” version can be ordered without ID and a specific relationship/legal need (such as police) for a birth certificate.

  255. avatar
    Brett Tiernan January 24, 2012 at 6:41 pm #

    obama HAS been ordered to show up in Court by the Georgia Judge and you are the one spreading the lies. I have been following this since December and it was the Attorney’s for obama that submitted a motion to Dismiss and a Motion for obama NOT to appear and the Judge QUASHED both motions and that is what has compelled obama to show up and the Judge also told obama’s Attorney’s what obama should bring. I know YOU HATE the Birther movement and that is probably because it stand for HONESTY and INTEGRITY and these are things that you and obama dont seem to care about.

    I REALLY don’t understand why people like you dont want to know the TRUTH and why you would back a President that has spent nearly 4 years and 100’s of Thousands of Dollars to prevent anyone from getting to the TRUTH?

  256. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater January 24, 2012 at 6:52 pm #

    Brett Tiernan:
    obama HAS been ordered to show up in Court by the Georgia Judge and you are the one spreading the lies. I have been following this since December and it was the Attorney’s for obama that submitted a motion to Dismiss and a Motion for obama NOT to appear and the Judge QUASHED both motions and that is what has compelled obama to show up and the Judge also told obama’s Attorney’s what obama should bring. I know YOU HATE the Birther movement and that is probably because it stand for HONESTY and INTEGRITY and these are things that you and obama dont seem to care about.

    I REALLY don’t understand why people like you dont want to know the TRUTH and why you would back a President that has spent nearly 4 years and 100′s of Thousands of Dollars to prevent anyone from getting to the TRUTH?

    If that’s the case simply post the court order from the administrative courts website requiring Obama to appear. Post proof that he has spent 100s of thousands of dollars preventing you from seeing stuff you imagine you need to see

  257. avatar
    y_p_w January 24, 2012 at 6:57 pm #

    Brett Tiernan: obama HAS been ordered to show up in Court by the Georgia Judge and you are the one spreading the lies. I have been following this since December and it was the Attorney’s for obama that submitted a motion to Dismiss and a Motion for obama NOT to appear and the Judge QUASHED both motions and that is what has compelled obama to show up and the Judge also told obama’s Attorney’s what obama should bring. I know YOU HATE the Birther movement and that is probably because it stand for HONESTY and INTEGRITY and these are things that you and obama dont seem to care about. I REALLY don’t understand why people like you dont want to know the TRUTH and why you would back a President that has spent nearly 4 years and 100′s of Thousands of Dollars to prevent anyone from getting to the TRUTH?

    No. It’s been pretty clear that this administrative tribunal has limited powers. The judge has the power to quash a subpoena, but no power to compel attendance, compel production of evidence, or even find someone in contempt of court. If something is missing that’s been asked for, the judge might be able to refer it to a superior court judge, but I’m not sure he’s that gung ho about all this. I think they’re used to subpoenas being blown off, and even he expressed doubts that the President could be compelled to testify before the tribunal.

    He also made is clear that he found Jalonski’s motion to quash poorly written and was asking for specific citations. He didn’t quash the motion, but denied the motion to quash.

    This isn’t a full-fledged court proceeding. I don’t even know if they have access to bailiffs. Basically this is all going down in a large office building conference room.

  258. avatar
    Daniel January 24, 2012 at 7:00 pm #

    Brett Tiernan: obama HAS been ordered to show up in Court by the Georgia Judge and you are the one spreading the lies.

    Oh dear Brett. Poor disillusioned Brett.

    I know how much you really, really wish that were true.

    I really wish there were someway I could warp reality for you to make your wishes into pretty pink ponies.

  259. avatar
    J. Potter January 24, 2012 at 7:05 pm #

    Brett Tiernan: “President … has spent … 100′s of Thousands of Dollars…”

    Ack! When did the deflation set in? It used to be $2 million! Or did Obama negotiate the final bill? Get an executive discount perhaps? Double-coupon day at Perkins Coie?

    (PS–anyone ever figure out how the nutters settled on $2 million? the 2008 campaign had $2.6 million in legal fees (if I remember right) … did they just grab a sum from a random point in time…?)

  260. avatar
    Brett Tiernan January 24, 2012 at 7:11 pm #

    http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Farrar-et-al-v-Obama-et-al1.pdf

    you can read this one for starters and there is alot more too.

  261. avatar
    y_p_w January 24, 2012 at 7:14 pm #

    J. Potter: Ack! When did the deflation set in? It used to be $2 million! Or did Obama negotiate the final bill? Get an executive discount perhaps? Double-coupon day at Perkins Coie?(PS–anyone ever figure out how the nutters settled on $2 million? the 2008 campaign had $2.6 million in legal fees (if I remember right) … did they just grab a sum from a random point in time…?)

    I think it’s hit $3 million by now. Apparently that was the only number they had.

    Or maybe the original amount was an original estimate but they saved money by assigning the duties to Jacoby & Meyers.

  262. avatar
    gorefan January 24, 2012 at 7:18 pm #

    J. Potter: When did the deflation set in?

    Maybe he means $100,000 in Iraqi Dinars.

  263. avatar
    Geir Smith January 24, 2012 at 7:19 pm #

    y_p_w: I think it’s hit $3 million by now. Apparently that was the only number they had.

    Or maybe the original amount was an original estimate but they saved money by assigning the duties to Jacoby & Meyers.

    Talking about deflation, you were talking about the cost of live coverage of Georgia’s hearings, but Orly Taitz will be on Clear Channel tomorrow.

    Is that a big channel? She says it’s America’s biggest radio.

  264. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater January 24, 2012 at 7:25 pm #

    Brett Tiernan:
    http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Farrar-et-al-v-Obama-et-al1.pdf

    you can read this one for starters and there is alot more too.

    Court order from the court who issued it not the spin by taitz

  265. avatar
    y_p_w January 24, 2012 at 7:27 pm #

    Brett Tiernan: http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Farrar-et-al-v-Obama-et-al1.pdfyou can read this one for starters and there is alot more too.

    I’m not opening that up and exposing my coputer to that virus infested website. Now if you’ve got the direct Scribd link, I think we might have something.

    However, I’ve seen what she’s got, and there is no judge’s order to compel attendance. All she’s got right now is a denial on the motion to quash. This judge has no power to compel. He’s like a security guard who can’t make an arrest. All he can do is call the cops (i.e. a superior court judge) and see if an order to compel can be made.

    Personally I doubt a real superior court judge is going to risk that. While Judge Malihi seems to be saying cite your case to Jablonski, I would think that a superior court judge would be proactive and think long and hard (even personally looking up the case law perhaps) before issuing an order for attendance or a bench warrant for a sitting POTUS.

    Besides that, it’s my understanding that tons of crimnal and civil cases languish because a witness is out of state and can’t be ordered to come to the state. I was on a jury trial where one piece of evidence lacking was how anyone knew the defendant was the culprit. It turned out someone followed him home, but the witness was out of state and unavailable to testify to that.

  266. avatar
    Daniel January 24, 2012 at 7:27 pm #

    Brett Tiernan: and there is alot more too.

    Oh we know there’s a lot more. After all, birthers love to write their crap out in long streakm of consciousness articles.

    Now if only you had something of substance….

  267. avatar
    JoZeppy January 24, 2012 at 7:42 pm #

    Brett Tiernan: obama HAS been ordered to show up in Court by the Georgia Judge and you are the one spreading the lies. I have been following this since December and it was the Attorney’s for obama that submitted a motion to Dismiss and a Motion for obama NOT to appear and the Judge QUASHED both motions and that is what has compelled obama to show up and the Judge also told obama’s Attorney’s what obama should bring. I know YOU HATE the Birther movement and that is probably because it stand for HONESTY and INTEGRITY and these are things that you and obama dont seem to care about. I REALLY don’t understand why people like you dont want to know the TRUTH and why you would back a President that has spent nearly 4 years and 100′s of Thousands of Dollars to prevent anyone from getting to the TRUTH?

    Oh, Brett, Brett, Brett….you should reall not talk about things that you don’t remotely understand.

    1) Obama has not been ordered to show up in court. His motion to quash the subpoena was denied. Might seem like the same think to you, but there is a world of difference between the two.

    2) Second, the judge didn’t quash anything. He denied the motion to quash and a motion to dismiss. Again, if you don’t want to appear stupid, learn the vocabulary before you try to use it.

    3) The denial does not compel Obama to do anything. He simply denied their motion. Obama can simply not show, and his attorney can explain (hopefully citing actual case law) why a state judge can’t compel a federal elected official to appear in a state court. Furthermore, the judge didn’t tell his attorney what to bring. He did nothing of the sort. To paraphrase his order, the next time you file a motion in my court, try citing to some case law. Again, when Orly starts squeeling about something, the President’s attorney simply has to point out that the requested documents are totally irrelvant to the question of the President’s citizenship. The judge can agree at that point, or refer to courts.

    4) No one has any idea how much the President has spent. No clue. How exactly would we know something that is protected by attorney/client privilege?

    5) And actually, the birthers stand for ignorance and abject stupidity. I don’t hate them, I find them contemptable. Your post is a prime example why those of us who have a clue mock you. We’ve had the truth since 2008. It’s just you wouldn’t know the truth if I smacked you upside your head with it. The fact that birthers are still running around is all the proof you need that neither honesty or integrity are traits remotely found among the birther tribe.

  268. avatar
    Majority Will January 24, 2012 at 7:47 pm #

    “obama HAS been ordered . . . ”

    Does the use of occasional words in all caps somehow add magical truthiness*?

    (*great Colbertism)

  269. avatar
    Rickey January 24, 2012 at 8:22 pm #

    y_p_w:

    This isn’t a full-fledged court proceeding.I don’t even know if they have access to bailiffs.Basically this is all going down in a large office building conference room.

    These ignorant birthers have convinced themselves that a state court in Georgia has the authority and means to arrest and incarcerate a sitting President of the United States.

    Somehow that notion caused me to conjure up a vision of Barney Fife appearing at the White House with an arrest warrant.

  270. avatar
    sfjeff January 24, 2012 at 8:24 pm #

    Why do a certain percentage- I would say about 25% of Birthers who post give me a visual that they are so outraged that spittle is spraying over the keyboard and monitor as they type their outrage onto the screen?

  271. avatar
    y_p_w January 24, 2012 at 8:40 pm #

    Rickey: These ignorant birthers have convinced themselves that a state court in Georgia has the authority and means to arrest and incarcerate a sitting President of the United States. Somehow that notion caused me to conjure up a vision of Barney Fife appearing at the White House with an arrest warrant.

    Barney Fife was a sworn officer of the law, even if he wasn’t allowed to keep his gun loaded.

    I’m just trying to get a handle on what this hearing room would look like. I’ve been in a few courtrooms in my life (never been in any trouble save getting a traffic ticket dismissed), and I’d think each and every one must have had room for at least 80 spectators save traffic court, which had room for at least 50. I was dismissed from the jury box in a burglary trial in a basement courtroom, and that might have barely seated 80. I’d been in a US District Court courtroom once, and it was about the size of a decent movie auditorium. I was also surprised that they had built anything with such high ceilings in the upper floors of an office building.

    What I’m imagining is something like the following:

    http://www.caed.uscourts.gov/caed/StaticOther/page_472.htm
    http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2009/08/11/us/0811YOSEMITE_5.html

    I’m referring to the US District Court, Eastern District of California, Yosemite Office. I love Yosemite, have never been to the courthouse, and hope never to have to face the Magistrate. The photo from the New York Times looks like there might be room for about 16 spectators. They have so little room that they use the jury box (never really needed because a jury of mostly park rangers [the residents of Yosemite] would be considered prejudiced) for waiting defendants. The prosecutor is a park ranger who is versed on a limited set of laws, and the public defender is typically rotated in and out from several federal courts. All they typically do is bench trials and the security guard is a former park ranger. And yes they do have a metal detector.

  272. avatar
    Majority Will January 24, 2012 at 8:48 pm #

    sfjeff:
    Why do a certain percentage- I would say about 25% of Birthers who post give me a visual that they are so outraged that spittle is spraying over the keyboard and monitor as they type their outrage onto the screen?

    I would guess 50%. And sometimes it’s Cheetos.

  273. avatar
    jbjd January 24, 2012 at 10:08 pm #

    What was perhaps more bothersome than spending the past several days submitting comments on blogs throughout the internet trying to correct the posted misinformation that the denial from the Administrative Law Judge (ALJ) in GA, to President Obama’s Motion to Quash (Petitioner Farrer’s subpoena to appear to give information that would support his claim, SoS Kemp wrongly refused his request to remove Obama’s name from the primary ballot) is tantamount to an Order to Appear; was the willingness of so many people to believe these were the same thing, just because this was reported by AP and repeated in several other ‘news’ sources (many of whom quoted AP).

    I have written 2 articles in as many days which, I hope, thoroughly de-bunk this tripe. (The exchanges in the Comments add clarity, too.)

  274. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 24, 2012 at 11:28 pm #

    I don’t believe that moment. This “vetting” gambit is nothing more than an excuse to throw sand and blow smoke and to excuse Obama bashing. If vetting were truly important to you and your ilk, then you would have been lobbying for legislation to tighten up the vetting process long before Obama.

    Geir Smith: This isn’t about Obama being “just about legit”, the nuclear codes are not approximately dangerous. We have to be 100% sure of the POTUS’ vetting. Only 99,99% is not acceptable and registers as FAILED.

  275. avatar
    Daniel January 24, 2012 at 11:45 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I don’t believe that moment. This “vetting” gambit is nothing more than an excuse to throw sand and blow smoke and to excuse Obama bashing. If vetting were truly important to you and your ilk, then you would have been lobbying for legislation to tighten up the vetting process long before Obama.

    I know.

    This ridiculous meme they’ve bought into that somehow having two citizen parents is the only thing keeping former Presidents from aiming the ICBMs at state capitals and slapping the red button. It’s ludicrous.

    Timothy James McVeigh had two citizen parents. By birther standards he was more trustworthy to hold the nuclear codes than Obama.

  276. avatar
    sfjeff January 25, 2012 at 1:17 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I don’t believe that moment. This “vetting” gambit is nothing more than an excuse to throw sand and blow smoke and to excuse Obama bashing. If vetting were truly important to you and your ilk, then you would have been lobbying for legislation to tighten up the vetting process long before Obama.

    Ah but you see…as other prime Birthers have told me over and over…the other Presidents didn’t have these startling ‘red flags”

    a) a Muslim sounding name
    b) Lived for part of his youth in Indonesia
    c) Had a father born in Kenya
    d) And I can’t remember the last one- probably something about communist grandparents or was sleeping with Ayers or something equally idiotic.

    See if you just choose the necessary ‘red flag’s that match Obama, then its easy to specify that any candidate that has those red flags will be challenged.

  277. avatar
    Geir Smith January 25, 2012 at 4:09 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I don’t believe that moment. This “vetting” gambit is nothing more than an excuse to throw sand and blow smoke and to excuse Obama bashing. If vetting were truly important to you and your ilk, then you would have been lobbying for legislation to tighten up the vetting process long before Obama.

    I’m not an old man.

    [Junior high? Doc.]

  278. avatar
    Geir Smith January 25, 2012 at 4:11 am #

    http://members.beforeitsnews.com/story/1671/355/Video:_Fox_5_Atlanta:_Judge_Orders_Obama_to_Appear_at_Ballot_Access_Challenge_Hearing.html

    MSM is ramping up it’s coverage and Obama’s attorney’s not responding.

  279. avatar
    John Reilly January 25, 2012 at 8:34 am #

    Properly vetting candidates can be a good thing. There are plenty of countries where before someone can advance to the top they must first work through, and be successful at, a number of different executive and legislative positions. Of course, in those contries (England, Japan, etc.) Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, Herman Cain, et al., would still be back benchers. Vetting is also done in theocracies, where only the ideological pure can advance. Think Iran.

    We have never vetted candidates. As SFJeff notes, the only reason birthers want candidates vetted is the belief that whatever agency they set up (another federal agency? more unelected Federal employees imposing their mandates?) would exclude all scary Black men.

    I’m rather reminded of what Will Rogers was reported to have said of our failure to have a proper vetting process in 1920. “I learned growing up that anyone can grow up to be President. Now that Warren Harding has been elected, I realize how true that is.”

  280. avatar
    Geir Smith January 25, 2012 at 9:00 am #

    The birthers are overwhelmed by the logistics linked to the Georgia Thursday hearings: getting there, organizing the witnesses, dealing with the media etc….we, who are out here, should relay them in the news coverage by flooding Internet with the news that “Obama’s on Trial”. If you want to join and do this, leading up to the Thursday court event, please tell us, send a message to whoever posts this to you. That way we can set afoot a coordinated group, sending out the message to everyone, everywhere in the world, seeing this is incredibly hair-raising news that the world’ most powerful man, the President of the USA, the man with the atom bombs’ codes is going on trial like a criminal. The world has fallen into the pits.

    [It is not a trial, but an administrative hearing to make recommendations to the Georgia Secretary of State on whether Obama should be on the ballot. It is outrageous (i.e., invoking outrage in readers) comments like yours that make you a troll rather than a serious part of the discussion. Doc]

  281. avatar
    The Magic M January 25, 2012 at 10:35 am #

    J. Potter: (PS–anyone ever figure out how the nutters settled on $2 million? the 2008 campaign had $2.6 million in legal fees (if I remember right) … did they just grab a sum from a random point in time…?)

    They had the info “Obama spent $2 million on his law firm” and turned this into “Obama spent $2 million on his law firm to fight birther lawsuits, why, what else for?”. As with all birther propaganda, it twists the facts just a little, but enough to start with apples and come up with fairy dust.

  282. avatar
    J. Potter January 25, 2012 at 10:44 am #

    The Magic M: They had the info “Obama spent $2 million on his law firm” and turned this into “Obama spent $2 million on his law firm to fight birther lawsuits, why, what else for?”.

    I got that M! And always enjohyed the obvious retort, “And why did the McCain campaign spend $1.7M* on the same?” Would have been fun to compile a history of campaign legal expenses, and ponder on the rising price of secrecy, but i never took it that far.

    I had just always wondered why it was $2M. Making a silly assertion is one thing, but while you’re at it, get the number right and go all the way, or, heck, go ahead and round up to $3M. Stupid be bold! ;)

    * Number pulled from faulty memory.

  283. avatar
    James M January 25, 2012 at 11:17 am #

    Geir Smith: We have to be 100% sure of the POTUS’ vetting.

    Ok. 100% of President Obama was born in Hawaii. Is there anything else we can help you with?

  284. avatar
    Rickey January 25, 2012 at 11:17 am #

    President Obama’s travel schedule today:

    On Wednesday, President Obama kicks off his five-state/three day tour post his State of the Union address on Tuesday night. He’ll make five stops which will highlight different areas touched on in his SOTU speech. His first day of the trip, he will focus on American Manufacturing with stops in Iowa and Arizona.

    EST

    8:45AM In-Town Pool Call Time

    9:50AM THE PRESIDENT departs the White House en route Joint Base Andrews South Lawn / Open Press

    10:05AM THE PRESIDENT departs Joint Base Andrews en routeCedar Rapids,IA Out-Of-Town Travel Pool Coverage

    CST

    11:20AM THE PRESIDENT arrivesCedar Rapids,IA. EasternIowaAirport / Open Press

    11:40AM THE PRESIDENT tours Conveyor Engineering & Manufacturing. Conveyor Engineering & Manufacturing,Cedar Rapids,IA. Travel Pool Coverage

    11:55AM THE PRESIDENT delivers remarks at Conveyor Engineering & Manufacturing, Cedar Rapids,IA Open Press

    1:30PM THE PRESIDENT departs Cedar Rapids,IA en route Phoenix, AZ EasternIowaAirport / Open Press

    MST

    3:35PM THE PRESIDENT arrives Phoenix,AZ Phoenix-MesaGatewayAirport Open Press

    4:30PM THE PRESIDENT delivers remarks at Intel Ocotillo Campus Chandler,AZ / Open Press

    6:35PM THE PRESIDENT departs Phoenix,AZ en routeLas Vegas,NV Phoenix-MesaGatewayAirport / Open Press

    PST

    6:30PM THE PRESIDENT arrivesLas Vegas,NV Las Vegas McCarren International Airport/ Open Press

    http://whitehouse.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/25/post-sotu-travel-on-the-schedule/

    Geir Smith will, I am sure, be devastated to learn that the MSM is showing little or no interest in tomorrow’s hearing. I checked the NY Times, LA Times, Chicago Tribune, CNN and MSNBC and found no mention of it.

  285. avatar
    y_p_w January 25, 2012 at 12:02 pm #

    James M: Ok.100% of President Obama was born in Hawaii.Is there anything else we can help you with?

    But we have no proof that the current occupant of the White House isn’t some clone made by aliens using DNA collected from the original Barack Hussein Obama II’s used bubblegum, and the original is somewhere orbiting the earth in said aliens’ cloaked space vessel.

  286. avatar
    Majority Will January 25, 2012 at 1:37 pm #

    J. Potter: I got that M! And always enjohyed the obvious retort, “And why did the McCain campaign spend $1.7M* on the same?” Would have been fun to compile a history of campaign legal expenses, and ponder on the rising price of secrecy, but i never took it that far.

    I had just always wondered why it was $2M. Making a silly assertion is one thing, but while you’re at it, get the number right and go all the way, or, heck, go ahead and round up to $3M. Stupid be bold!

    *Number pulled from faulty memory.

    What’s Obama’s Birther Legal Bill?

    (excerpt) Activists charge that Obama has spent millions to silence them in court. Not exactly, say the government’s lawyers.

    (source: http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/01/whats-obamas-birther-legal-bill)

    Barack Obama presidential eligibility litigation
    (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_presidential_eligibility_litigation)

    Donald Trump claims Obama has spent $2 million in legal fees defending lawsuits about his birth certificate

    FALSE – Politifact.com

    (excerpt) When fact-checking, we think the onus is on the person making the claim to back up his statement. And the only backing we’ve seen in this case is that the Obama campaign’s legal team spent more than $2 million on legal fees since the election ended. It’s clear to us that the WND story has been twisted to wrongly assume that every dollar the Obama campaign spent on legal fees went to fight the release of Obama’s birth certificate. The evidence shows that’s simply not true. It’s a huge, unsubstantiated leap to assume that all, or most, of that was related to lawsuits about Obama’s citizenship. We rule Trump’s claim False.

    (source: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/apr/12/donald-trump/donald-trump-claims-obama-has-spent-2-million-lega/)

    A pattern emerges after researching many of these birther myths. The trail often leads back to Jerome Corsi and Joseph Farah and WND.

    Surprised?

  287. avatar
    J. Potter January 25, 2012 at 2:11 pm #

    Majority Will: Surprised?

    Oh, stunned. ;)

    They were right there, a’birthin’ from the beginning. Corsi was working on Obama Nation and already had been railing against him. The minute the campaign released the first BC in June ’08, who was all over the internet screaming, “PhotoShop forgery!!!!”? Little Jerry Corsi.

  288. avatar
    G January 25, 2012 at 3:10 pm #

    Yeah, the media is mostly focused on real political stories of importance – Obama’s SOTU from last night and the GOP Primary race. Considering that Thursday will bring yet another GOP Debate, the poor Birthers are in a really bad spot of timing for anyone to pay attention to their circus antics earlier that same day…

    Rickey: Geir Smith will, I am sure, be devastated to learn that the MSM is showing little or no interest in tomorrow’s hearing. I checked the NY Times, LA Times, Chicago Tribune, CNN and MSNBC and found no mention of it.

  289. avatar
    G January 25, 2012 at 3:13 pm #

    Just another Swift Boat smear by one of the biggest shameless con artists out there…

    What surprises me is why anyone treats WND like a newspaper at all. Heck, most of the tabloids are a lot more legit than his sleaze peddling grift factory. How they are ever given press passes to anything is beyond me…

    Majority Will: A pattern emerges after researching many of these birther myths. The trail often leads back to Jerome Corsi and Joseph Farah and WND.
    Surprised?

  290. avatar
    seo January 31, 2012 at 12:22 pm #

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