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Selective Service to Arpaio: You can take your evidence and …

Selective Service logoIn a letter dated March 22, Richard S. Flahavan, Associate Director of Public and Intergovernmental Affairs with the Selective Service System responded to Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s request for an investigation of Obama’s selective service registration. Flahavan wrote:

This Agency has no evidence that President Obama’s 1980 registration is not authentic. However, if you have any credible evidence to the contrary and believe that a Federal crime has been committed, we suggest that it be turned over immediately to the Federal Bureau of Investigation to pursue.

You would have thought that Sheriff Arpaio would have already known how to refer a case to the FBI.

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276 Responses to Selective Service to Arpaio: You can take your evidence and …

  1. avatar
    AnotherBird March 29, 2012 at 8:09 pm #

    Arpaio knows that if turns over his evidence then he will have nothing to support him, but this everything do with Arpaio’s feeding birthers. There was another person just like him. What was his name again …. Smith.

  2. avatar
    y_p_w March 29, 2012 at 8:11 pm #

    They also sent a “clarification letter” that read like an order.

    I’m wondering how many local law enforcement agencies have that much pull with federal agencies that they can dictate that original archived documents must be made available to them.

    Also – how come they didn’t make any requests to the Hawaii Dept of Health for what should be pretty obvious?

  3. avatar
    Obsolete March 29, 2012 at 8:13 pm #

    Birthers will refuse to accept that the SSS is the judge of its’ own file’s authenticity, just like they can’t wrap their heads around Hawaii being the final arbiter of their own vital records.
    I suppose only an expert like Taitz or Irey can determine the “truth”.

  4. avatar
    john March 29, 2012 at 8:24 pm #

    The Selective Service know damn-well the Obama’s record has been forged. Again, this is classic stonewalling like Hawaii.

  5. avatar
    JPotter March 29, 2012 at 8:25 pm #

    And they didn’t try to obtain a court order because ________ …. Birther surrrrvey says … ?

    (Ah, ah! Just the birthers now, just the birthers!)

    C’mon, don’t be shy. Why so many correct answers to choose from, you might get one accidentally. Give it a go!

    ____________________

    I am going to have to decide whether to have Congressional hearings …”

    — Señor Arpaio

  6. avatar
    Geir Smith March 29, 2012 at 8:28 pm #

    Tell me if it’s my impression but I don’t think you actually want Obama to answer any questions and is avoiding.

  7. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 29, 2012 at 8:47 pm #

    It’s your imagination. It makes no difference to me what he answers.

    Geir Smith: Tell me if it’s my impression but I don’t think you actually want Obama to answer any questions and is avoiding.

  8. avatar
    JD Reed March 29, 2012 at 8:53 pm #

    John, you rarely ever contribute to the coversation. You just make an flat, and unfailingly erroneous, statment, backed by utterly zero evidence, and you’re gone. Why in the world would you think you have any chance whatever of iinfluencing a thinking mind? . Because John says so, it’s so? Seems to be your attitude.

  9. avatar
    JPotter March 29, 2012 at 8:55 pm #

    Geir Smith: Tell me if it’s my impression but I don’t think you actually want Obama to answer any questions and is avoiding.

    He answered birthers with documents, twice.

    It’s your projection. I can believe it makes an impression on you.

  10. avatar
    JPotter March 29, 2012 at 8:57 pm #

    john: The Selective Service know damn-well the Obama’s record has been forged. Again, this is classic stonewalling like Hawaii.

    Yes, you are correct, reality adamantly refuses to mold itself to crazy. Rather unyielding that way. Like …. stone. Could be wall-shaped.

    Free your mind, John. Deal, don’t deny.

  11. avatar
    Majority Will March 29, 2012 at 8:59 pm #

    john:
    The Selective Service know damn-well the Obama’s record has been forged. Again, this is classic stonewalling like Hawaii.

    It’s all so obvious now.

    Birther john is Cruiser.

    Cruiser: I joined the army ’cause my father and my brother were in the army. I thought I’d better join before I got drafted.

    Sergeant Hulka: Son, there ain’t no draft no more.

    Cruiser: There was one?

    (Stripes, 1981: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083131/quotes)

  12. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 29, 2012 at 9:17 pm #

    It is more than obvious that Sheriff Joe is scared witless of turning over his evidence to the FBI.

  13. avatar
    john March 29, 2012 at 9:18 pm #

    If the Selective Service had nothing to hide, they would gladly cooporate with a lawful investigative body and turn over the original copy to Arpiao’s investigators for forensic testing.

  14. avatar
    john March 29, 2012 at 9:24 pm #

    The FBI will ignore the issue Doc. The FBI has received complaint after complaint over the past years about Obama’s eligibility and has ignored every complaint.

  15. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 29, 2012 at 9:24 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: It is more than obvious that Sheriff Joe is scared witless of turning over his evidence to the FBI.

    He doesn’t have any evidence. That’s his real problem.

  16. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 29, 2012 at 9:27 pm #

    Geir Smith: Tell me if it’s my impression but I don’t think you actually want Obama to answer any questions and is avoiding.

    He’s already answered the relevant question by releasing his birth certificates.

    This tempest in a teapot is so stupid it hurts.

  17. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 29, 2012 at 9:28 pm #

    john: The Selective Service know damn-well the Obama’s record has been forged

    How do YOU know that, John?

  18. avatar
    Jim March 29, 2012 at 9:29 pm #

    I like in his letter back to the SSS, Arpaio asks that the document be examined by an independent document examiner assigned by the courts. Only 2 minor problems with that, no court has asked for the document and some of the best experts in forgery work for…you guessed it, the FBI!

  19. avatar
    US Citizen March 29, 2012 at 9:32 pm #

    john:
    The Selective Service know damn-well the Obama’s record has been forged.Again, this isclassic stonewalling like Hawaii.

    Face it, John.
    You just don’t like their answers.
    You yourself have no idea if they are lying.
    If they had said “Yes, this might be a forgery”, you’d have believed them 100%.

  20. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 29, 2012 at 9:33 pm #

    Jim: I like in his letter back to the SSS, Arpaio asks that the document be examined by an independent document examiner assigned by the courts. Only 2 minor problems with that, no court has asked for the document and some of the best experts in forgery work for…you guessed it, the FBI!

    This is classic Arpaio. Huff and puff and stomp around raising up enough dust to obscure half of Arizona.

  21. avatar
    y_p_w March 29, 2012 at 9:35 pm #

    Jim: I like in his letter back to the SSS, Arpaio asks that the document be examined by an independent document examiner assigned by the courts. Only 2 minor problems with that, no court has asked for the document and some of the best experts in forgery work for…you guessed it, the FBI!

    While I have no doubt that the FBI has some experts on document forgery, I would think that the premiere experts on forgery in the US government have to be in the US Secret Service.

  22. avatar
    Keith March 29, 2012 at 9:43 pm #

    CarlOrcas: This is classic Arpaio. Huff and puff and stomp around raising up enough dust to obscure half of Arizona.

    Yeah, dealing with dust storm accidents on I-10 is just about the most fun an MCSO officer gets to have.

  23. avatar
    john March 29, 2012 at 9:49 pm #

    Th FBI will not investigate. No Federal Agency for that matter has the guts or the courage to investigate the fraud and forgery claims against the President. Joe Arpaio is truly man of honor and integrity by listening to the citizens of Maricopa County by agreeing to investigate the issue.

  24. avatar
    ASK Esq March 29, 2012 at 9:51 pm #

    The Freepers are all over this. They’re are doing the same linguistic gymnastics they’ve done with the statements by the HDOH officials to try to make it seem as though this clear statement doesn’t say what it actually says. Many of them are claiming that this statement somehow leaves open the possibility that there was no registration, even though it says that there was. Some are just pointing out the double negative, as if that somehow helps them.

  25. avatar
    jayhg March 29, 2012 at 9:57 pm #

    I said earlier that I didn’t think that the Selective Service would just give Arpaio (or anyone) documents belonging to another person just cause he asked. Also, Arpaio was painting this request as in line with some sort of investigation of President Obama when he has no right to investigate the President. Being sheriff of a county in Arizona is not authority regarding the President.

    He’s crazy and I sincerely feel he is embarassed. He dived in with these loons and now he has to produce SOMETHING or he’s lost what little credibility he had left and will be a laughing stock. So he’s making all these pronouncements about getting papers from the selective service and figuring out who to give his “evidence” to, knowing all the while that he has not an ounce of authority for any of it.

    And finally, birthers are so stupid. How many time are they going to be told that you can’t make an accusation and then go fishing around for proof of your pre-conceived notion before they are going to believe it?? Losing at every turn for this reason alone is not working.

    You can’t make an accusation and then try to make me prove you’re right. You have to bring your evidence of my wrong doing and we go from there.

    Arpaio is in law enforcement. He knows full well that you can’t just go around making accusations against citizens of his county without probable cause. This is the same idea. The selective service said if you have any proof that these documents we have are forged, bring it on. Otherwise, our documents are fine, we’re keeping them, and that’s the end of it……and the end of Arpaio’s career if he doesn’t tell these birthers something to let himself off the hook.

  26. avatar
    jayhg March 29, 2012 at 9:59 pm #

    CarlOrcas: How do YOU know that, John?

    john: The Selective Service know damn-well the Obama’s record has been forged

    John knows it because he squeezed his eyes shut REAL TIGHT and wished REAL HARD and when he opened his eyes, IT WAS SOOOOO!

  27. avatar
    alg March 29, 2012 at 10:03 pm #

    “Arpaio?” Doesn’t that sound Arabic to you? Has anybody seen this man’s birth certificate? How do we know he’s a U.S. citizen? Anyone seen his draft card? How about his passport? College transcripts? What do we know about this man, really?

  28. avatar
    richCares March 29, 2012 at 10:14 pm #

    “The Selective Service know damn-well…”
    john, we sincerely hope that someone is watching over you, how are you able to dress or feed yourself, poor pitiful soul.

  29. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 29, 2012 at 11:11 pm #

    The problem is that the Maricopa County Sheriff’s office doesn’t have any forensic examiners. Plus it’s nonsense for an Arizona Sheriff to investigate a federal crime. The FBI is much better qualified to do the job than anyone else. They have the jurisdiction; they have the expertise. Sheriff Joe knows that he will be in big trouble if he makes a false report to the FBI, so you can be sure he will not make any report.

    If he weren’t scared silly, he would make the report to the FBI and then if the FBI didn’t act on it, he could point this out and gain big PR points. No, the net is closing in on Sheriff Joe and he knows it, and he’s scared witless of having to go to jail. With a reputation like his, he’d be dead in a week.

    john: If the Selective Service had nothing to hide, they would gladly cooporate [sic] with a lawful investigative body and turn over the original copy to Arpiao’s [sic] investigators for forensic testing.

  30. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 29, 2012 at 11:13 pm #

    alg: “Arpaio?” Doesn’t that sound Arabic to you?

    His parents were Italian….born in Italy. Got it?

    We report, you decide.

  31. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 29, 2012 at 11:17 pm #

    I find it funny that people say Sheriff Joe Arpaio is running his cold case posse farce to get revenge against Obama, or to divert attention from his own legal problems.

    Sheriff Joe is doing this to save his life. He hopes that he can influence the election and get some right-wing nut job elected that will call off the justice department investigation of Arpaio and his department, because if the investigation goes on, Arpaio will go to jail, and he’d be dead in a week.

  32. avatar
    Northland10 March 29, 2012 at 11:17 pm #

    This almost made me giggle.

    Does Orly know you have dropped her for your new BFF Arpaio?

    john:
    Th FBI will not investigate.No Federal Agency for that matter has the guts or the courage to investigate the fraud and forgery claims against the President.Joe Arpaio is truly man of honor and integrity by listening to the citizens of Maricopa County by agreeing to investigate the issue.

  33. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 29, 2012 at 11:20 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The problem is that the Maricopa County Sheriff’s office doesn’t have any forensic examiners. The FBI is much better qualified to do the job than anyone else. Sheriff Joe knows that he will be in big trouble if he makes a false report to the FBI, so you can be sure he will not make any report.

    Couple thoughts: I suspect the MCSO does have someone who can deal with documents; probably in the check detail. But, the real problem is that he said the Obama investigation wouldn’t cost anything and if he uses paid staff that’s a problem for him.

    He could probably get away with it if he could produce anything remotely resembling evidence of a crime (even outside his jurisdiction) but he hasn’t. There is no there there for him.

    Referring stuff to other agencies is routine, even stuff as shaky as this nonsense. The Selective Service was absolutely right: “If you think a federal crime was committed then call the FBI….their phone number is in your phone book.”

  34. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 29, 2012 at 11:27 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Sheriff Joe is doing this to save his life. He hopes that he can influence the election and get some right-wing nut job elected that will call off the justice department investigation of Arpaio and his department, because if the investigation goes on, Arpaio will go to jail, and he’d be dead in a week.

    I don’t know. I think you’re giving him too much credit.

    This is all classic Arpaio. He has been tilting at windmills since he was elected nearly 20 years ago. He thinks he is invincible. So far he has been.

    I don’t know anyone in Phoenix who has dealt with him over those years who thinks he is playing with a full deck.

  35. avatar
    Maudie Frickert March 29, 2012 at 11:50 pm #

    john:
    Th FBI will not investigate. No Federal Agency for that matter has the guts or the courage to investigate the fraud and forgery claims against the President. Joe Arpaio is truly man of honor and integrity by listening to the citizens of Maricopa County by agreeing to investigate the issue.

    Well, bless your li’l pea-pickin’ heart, Sonny! You jes’ keep right on believin’ all those things, and don’t let ennybody tell you just ’cause none of it has a single scrap of evidence to back it up, that means it ain’t so! It don’t matter that all them things you say don’t make a lick o’ sense. After all, some folks swear they’ve got some fur from Bigfoot and pieces of Flying Saucers. And they gets right surly if’n you tell em they’re wrong, too. My, my.

    You remind me of my Aunt Emma… She used ta swear she was gonna find gold out in the back of our propperty. She’d stagger out after supper in her night gown with her miner’s helmet and goggles, carrying a pick-axe, hollerin’ “There’s GOLD in them thar hills!” And we’d tell her, “You come back inside this minute, you old fool! There ain’t no gold in Birmingham!” but she wouldn’t never listen.

    And my late husband Jed, he held onto this big stack of stock in the Acme Whale-Bone Corset Company for 50 years after the Crash, sayin’ “Styles in women’s duds allus come back aff’r a while. You just wait… this stuff’ll be worth a million bucks some day!”
    He had crazy ideas just like yours, stuff that wouldn’t be believed by anybody with more brains than a tuna-fish sammitch. And it never hurt him none! We jus’ put that big ol’ pile of wuthless stock in his casket with him when he went, to keep him company like.

    But if Bigfoot ever does drop by with any little bit of evidence backing up any of your darlin’ crack-pot claims, you tell just him sister Maudie says hello!

    Bye-bye now!

  36. avatar
    traderjack March 30, 2012 at 12:11 am #

    Well, the hounds are in full bay as the SSS did just what I would do in their place!

    Which is cover your but, and write a letter saying we don’t know anything about the problem , so please take it to the FBI so I can get on with my valuable work.

    governmental obfuscation.

    For a completely transparent government , is sure is shuttered tighlly

    But, I did see an obot word , inserted therein, that I would not use.
    If you have any “credible” evidence, which means to obots, no evidence can be credible as far as we are concerned.

  37. avatar
    Thrifty March 30, 2012 at 12:17 am #

    Yeah. Just like they they ignored my complaints that Tom Vilsack was sneaking into my garden and stealing my petunias. God damn corrupt FBI. Don’t they know that everything anyone says has merit and is deserving of an investigation?

    john:
    The FBI will ignore the issue Doc.The FBI has received complaint after complaint over the past years about Obama’s eligibility and has ignored every complaint.

  38. avatar
    Ramjomi March 30, 2012 at 12:18 am #

    john:
    The Selective Service know damn-well the Obama’s record has been forged.Again, this isclassic stonewalling like Hawaii.

    Let’s spend time on conspiracy theories that we know we might have a chance to prove, like my theory on how the Death Star was an inside job. It would seem to a better use of time than spending time on Arpaio’s non-sense.

  39. avatar
    jayhg March 30, 2012 at 12:20 am #

    You forgot, “Ya’ll come back now, ya hear?”

  40. avatar
    misha March 30, 2012 at 12:28 am #

    alg: “Arpaio?” Doesn’t that sound Arabic to you?

    CarlOrcas: His parents were Italian….born in Italy.

    I want proof that Arpaio and his parents were not in the mob. After all, the burden of proof is on him, just like Glenn Beck’s possible involvement with the demise of that poor girl.

  41. avatar
    Feinne March 30, 2012 at 1:48 am #

    Turning to Joe Arpaio is really a crystallization of the sort of terrible decision making that goes on among the birthers. They’re exactly the sort of terminally deluded people who buy into Joe’s propaganda about himself instead of looking enough into the facts to realize that he’s a man utterly without morals or decency, one so low he could crawl under the belly of the lowest rattlesnake in the county he and his cronies infest. They like to go on and on about THE USURPER abusing his power in office but then they turn to a guy who literally has been doing that for his entire career.

  42. avatar
    Geir Smith March 30, 2012 at 4:17 am #

    Why the big accent on Arpaio?

    He’s just doing his job.

    I still get the impression you don’t want Obama to actually stand to the stand.

    [If you were reading the Organic Gardening Today blog, your comment might make more sense. Doc]

  43. avatar
    The Magic M March 30, 2012 at 4:33 am #

    Feinne: They like to go on and on about THE USURPER abusing his power in office but then they turn to a guy who literally has been doing that for his entire career.

    It’s logical, though. In the world of the deluded, everything is inverted. Which is why birthers hate CNN and love Pravda, hate Obama and love Arpaio, claim to protect the Constitution by shredding it, claim to uphold the law by ignoring it, call official documents forgeries but fall for obvious spoofs and so on.
    The saying “fighting for peace is like f…ng for virginity” makes perfect sense in their world.

  44. avatar
    ScottRS March 30, 2012 at 7:10 am #

    There’s a popular cite that turns up in my home state’s appeals courts from time to time, when they’re tired of dealing with similar inanities:

    “An appellate court is not a performing bear, required to dance to each and every tune played on an appeal.”

    (Cf. State v. Waste Mgmt. of Wis., Inc., 81 Wis. 2d 555, 564, 261 N.W.2d 147 (1978)

  45. avatar
    Stanislaw March 30, 2012 at 8:23 am #

    Ramjomi: Let’s spend time on conspiracy theories that we know we might have a chance to prove, like my theory on how the Death Star was an inside job.

    Hey, hey, lets not get carried away. The Death Star was an inside job. So was Jar Jar Binks.

  46. avatar
    AlCum March 30, 2012 at 9:07 am #

    CarlOrcas: His parents were Italian….born in Italy. Got it?

    We report, you decide.

    I guess Arpaio isn’t a natural born citizen then. ;-)

  47. avatar
    Keith March 30, 2012 at 9:49 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I find it funny that people say Sheriff Joe Arpaio is running his cold case posse farce to get revenge against Obama, or to divert attention from his own legal problems.

    Sheriff Joe is doing this to save his life. He hopes that he can influence the election and get some right-wing nut job elected that will call off the justice department investigation of Arpaio and his department, because if the investigation goes on, Arpaio will go to jail, and he’d be dead in a week.

    As much as I have nothing but contempt for Sheriff Joe, I doubt he’ll go to jail. I have to assume that he is in negotiations with the FBI and/or the local Federal Attorney’s office about his exit strategy. This whole play is about that exit strategy; he is auditioning for a gig with WND.

    I agree that he belongs in jail, I just don’t think he is going to get there.

  48. avatar
    richCares March 30, 2012 at 10:39 am #

    Orly is requesting Joe and Zullo to appear in court. That is something every Obot in the country would like to happen. Seeing Joe’s silly innuendos dissipate into oblivion would be a joy to behold. I’m sure Joe is aware of this so will avoid it at all costs. His actions are political and have nothing to do with the law and this OMG moment is like all those other failed OMG moments.

  49. avatar
    yutube March 30, 2012 at 10:42 am #

    I stopped reading the articles in your blog sometime ago and this article is a perfect example why. There is a follow up letter asking them to handover the original card for forensics. If there is no evidence of fraud, there should be nothing to hide. But Do you think they will allow examination? In your dreams. So all you can hope for again is to frame a copy of the SS card right next to the fake BC copy in your room.

  50. avatar
    misha March 30, 2012 at 10:54 am #

    yutube: I stopped reading the articles in your blog sometime ago

    Thank you for coming back. Hey, did you hear the one about the man who tied his dog to the roof, instead of his luggage?

    It’s hilarious. Not as funny as “The Aristocrats,” but almost. Also, did you hear the one about a man whose father was from Kenya, and was elected president?

  51. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 30, 2012 at 11:05 am #

    Sheriff Joe has no authority to investigate federal crimes including those related to Selective Service System registration. He has no forensic experts either. The FBI is the agency that under law would investigate such a claim, and who has the expertise to determine if a document is faked.

    You presume that the original cards remain on file, but I think that’s a doubtful presumption. It is more likely that the documents were imaged and destroyed long ago.

    yutube: There is a follow up letter asking them to handover the original card for forensics. If there is no evidence of fraud, there should be nothing to hide. But Do you think they will allow examination? In your dreams. So all you can hope for again is to frame a copy of the SS card right next to the fake BC copy in your room.

  52. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 30, 2012 at 11:06 am #

    yutube: There is a follow up letter asking them to handover the original card for forensics. If there is no evidence of fraud, there should be nothing to hide.

    And this is a perfect example of why you look so foolish.

  53. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 30, 2012 at 11:11 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: You presume that the original cards remain on file, but I think that’s a doubtful presumption. It is more likely that the documents were imaged and destroyed long ago.

    That’s what I would guess as well.

    On top of that you’ve got the question of exactly what crime could have been committed and then, assuming Obama managed to forge the card and convince the Selective Service to slip it into their files to await a FOIA request at some future date (deep breath), you then have the issue of the statute of limitations and when it ran out.

  54. avatar
    JPotter March 30, 2012 at 11:27 am #

    yutube: I stopped reading the articles in your blog sometime ago and this article is a perfect example why.

    Hmmm.

  55. avatar
    y_p_w March 30, 2012 at 11:54 am #

    You know, it occurs to me that they could have simply made a FOIA request or that the Associate Director could have made a suggestion in his letter that they make such a request.

    However, when you start off an inquiry with a federal agency suggesting that the records of the President of the United States in their custody have been forged, that’s not going to go well with them. That could be why there’s no suggestion for a simple FOIA request.

  56. avatar
    richCares March 30, 2012 at 12:03 pm #

    birthers have tried so hard to find dirt on Obama, why are they not successful?

  57. avatar
    jayHG March 30, 2012 at 12:04 pm #

    y_p_w: You know, it occurs to me that they could have simply made a FOIA request or that the Associate Director could have made a suggestion in his letter that they make such a request.However, when you start off an inquiry with a federal agency suggesting that the records of the President of the United States in their custody have been forged, that’s not going to go well with them. That could be why there’s no suggestion for a simple FOIA request.

    They don’t want to make a FOIA request. That would get them a copy, which they already have. Arpaio wants the ACTUAL PIECE OF PAPER.

    And of course, the answer to that was NOOOOO!!!

  58. avatar
    Horus March 30, 2012 at 12:14 pm #

    y_p_w: Also – how come they didn’t make any requests to the Hawaii Dept of Health for what should be pretty obvious?

    Because they believe that the entire State of Hawaii is in on the Conspiracy, including the former Republican Governor and Secretary of State.

  59. avatar
    Horus March 30, 2012 at 12:20 pm #

    john: The FBI will ignore the issue Doc. The FBI has received complaint after complaint over the past years about Obama’s eligibility and has ignored every complaint.

    And that doesn’t tell you something?
    That there is nothing to it.

  60. avatar
    Rickey March 30, 2012 at 12:20 pm #

    y_p_w:
    You know, it occurs to me that they could have simply made a FOIA request or that the Associate Director could have made a suggestion in his letter that they make such a request.

    If Arpaio had made the FOIA request, at best he would have received a copy of the registration card. No one is going to get to see an original document through FOIA. And as Doc has pointed out, there is good chance that the original no longer exists.

    Not that any of that really matters. Even if the Selective Service registration is a forgery, it is a Federal crime which has nothing to do with Arizona. Arpaio has no jurisdiction over Federal crimes.

  61. avatar
    Horus March 30, 2012 at 12:22 pm #

    CarlOrcas: This is classic Arpaio. Huff and puff and stomp around raising up enough dust to obscure half of Arizona.

    it’s called a Haboob.

  62. avatar
    Rickey March 30, 2012 at 12:23 pm #

    Geir Smith:
    Why the big accent on Arpaio?

    He’s just doing his job.

    How does Arpaio’s job authorize him to investigate alleged Federal offenses? He is a county sheriff, not a U.S. Marshal.

  63. avatar
    Horus March 30, 2012 at 12:35 pm #

    yutube: I stopped reading the articles in your blog sometime ago and this article is a perfect example why.

    Obviously you’re a Liar!
    You NEVER stopped reading anything here or you would not be commenting here right now.

  64. avatar
    y_p_w March 30, 2012 at 12:44 pm #

    jayHG: They don’t want to make a FOIA request. That would get them a copy, which they already have. Arpaio wants the ACTUAL PIECE OF PAPER.And of course, the answer to that was NOOOOO!!!

    However, all they’ve got is an electronic scan of a copy or what might have been reproduced from another scan/microform/etc. and was generally hard to read. It’s a lot like the quality of my check copies that I can get online from my bank.

    I once had a vital document that was hard to read because it was printed out too small. I went back to the office and asked for a copy with larger printout. At the very least, they might ask for a copy with different contrast settings to help improve the readability of the postmark.

    However, I believe they’re happy with what they have.

  65. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 30, 2012 at 12:52 pm #

    Horus: it’s called a Haboob

    Oh yes. I’ve been through, and in, many of them.

    Recently the Weather Service in Phoenix resurrected the term and some people went nuts: Obama was Islamizing the weather in Arizona!!

  66. avatar
    y_p_w March 30, 2012 at 12:53 pm #

    Rickey: How does Arpaio’s job authorize him to investigate alleged Federal offenses? He is a county sheriff, not a U.S. Marshal.

    The U.S. Marshal Service doesn’t even do much of that these days. These days their tasks are fugitive recovery, serving federal arrest warrants (which can be very dangerous), and providing court security. They do from time to time get empowered to enforce federal laws, but that’s rare. I remember reading about some obscure federal anti software piracy operation that brought along a Deputy U.S. Marshal to help enforce a search warrant at an office building. The front desk clerk thought it was a joke (especially the badge) and called the cops.

  67. avatar
    Northland10 March 30, 2012 at 1:19 pm #

    Imagine if the SSS had released a copy and thr stamp had the full year. That could have been amusing. Oh, the conspiracies they could have claimed.

    Rickey: If Arpaio had made the FOIA request, at best he would have received a copy of the registration card. No one is going to get to see an original document through FOIA. And as Doc has pointed out, there is good chance that the original no longer exists.

    Not that any of that really matters. Even if the Selective Service registration is a forgery, it is a Federal crime which has nothing to do with Arizona. Arpaio has no jurisdiction over Federal crimes.

  68. avatar
    yutube March 30, 2012 at 1:24 pm #

    yet another speculation. Federal general retention schedule policies varies by agency. Show in this blog what is the SSS retention schedule policy instead.

  69. avatar
    Majority Will March 30, 2012 at 1:34 pm #

    yutube: yet another speculation. Federal general retention schedule policies varies by agency. Show in this blog what is the SSS retention schedule policy instead.

    yutube: I stopped reading the articles in your blog sometime ago and this article is a perfect example why.

    You stopped making sense from your first post on.

    Excellent birther representation. Well done, troll.

  70. avatar
    JPotter March 30, 2012 at 1:38 pm #

    richCares: birthers have tried so hard to find dirt on Obama, why are they not successful?

    They are too stupid to find dirt. Their feet keep getting in the way.

  71. avatar
    nbc March 30, 2012 at 1:43 pm #

    john: The Selective Service know damn-well the Obama’s record has been forged. Again, this is classic stonewalling like Hawaii.

    How has it been forged? It’s close proximity in number to other SSS filings shows no evidence of forgery. The only ‘evidence’ is a poorly transmitted date stamp… Oh boy… This is so hilarious…

  72. avatar
    Thrifty March 30, 2012 at 1:44 pm #

    Yes it’s speculation. I don’t think you’ll find anyone here who will say with 100% certainty that Selective Service discards all the originals. We’re just making an educated guess because of how little sense it would make to keep originals of such mundane documents.

    Birthers take the opposite approach and assume that for every government document in existence, originals are kept forever and failure to produce these originals points to evidence of a coverup.

    yutube:
    yet another speculation. Federal general retention schedule policies varies by agency. Show in this blog what is the SSS retention schedule policy instead.

  73. avatar
    yutube March 30, 2012 at 1:45 pm #

    typical obot wanna be attorney, unsubstantiated comment. Where are the 2 year stamps by the way?

  74. avatar
    BillTheCat March 30, 2012 at 1:46 pm #

    haha yutube is back :D Because he no longer reads the articles here.

  75. avatar
    pauls88 March 30, 2012 at 1:47 pm #

    are the majority of you guys just ignorant or are you just plain stupid? arpaio and zullo have explained how and why they have standing in this issue. they have explained how and why they have the authority to pursue this. they have explained how and why they believe the documents they reviewed are forgeries. the doj and eric holder are doing the same thing here that they have done in “fast and furious.” they are stonewalling the investigation. many of these people are co-conspirators and need to go to jail as well.

    before the majority of you guys spout off with your stupid and naive opinions, read all the facts. don’t be like nancy pelosi and make an opinion on something without examining all the evidence. (“we have to pass the bill so we can know what is in it.)

    stupid! stupid! stupid!

    and don’t bother to even respond to my post until you have the common sense to examine ALL the evidence. i’m sure that will eliminate all of you…

  76. avatar
    nbc March 30, 2012 at 1:53 pm #

    john: The FBI will ignore the issue Doc. The FBI has received complaint after complaint over the past years about Obama’s eligibility and has ignored every complaint.

    Because there is no foundation for the complains? Makes sense…

  77. avatar
    nbc March 30, 2012 at 1:55 pm #

    pauls88: are the majority of you guys just ignorant or are you just plain stupid? arpaio and zullo have explained how and why they have standing in this issue. they have explained how and why they have the authority to pursue this.

    So let them pursue it and file an official complaint or request a court to grant them subpoena power. But Arpaio and his buddies are not that foolish. They are just trying to stir up media interest. They have NO intention to ever file an official complaint, or launch an investigation. Why do you think Arpaio is using volunteer ‘experts’ ?

    This is so predictable.

  78. avatar
    nbc March 30, 2012 at 1:56 pm #

    pauls88: and don’t bother to even respond to my post until you have the common sense to examine ALL the evidence. i’m sure that will eliminate all of you…

    I have looked at the evidence and found it to be severely wanting. There is NO evidence that President Obama’s COLB or long form birth certificates are fraudulent and the observed layers are trivially explained by compression.

    Care to explore some of these issues? I and others have done more here than most ‘birther’ who is letting fear and ignorance drive their foolish attempts.

  79. avatar
    yutube March 30, 2012 at 2:05 pm #

    Oh Thrifty rental car, you’re such a blinded obot. A retention schedule is a federal policy. Documents are destroyed in the federal government following the specific agency regulations. Records are destroyed by law and not by oh I think it makes sense to destroy this mundane document. Some records that have an extended retention policy are sent to Nara where they are kept for more than 30 years in some instances.

  80. avatar
    nbc March 30, 2012 at 2:07 pm #

    yutube: A retention schedule is a federal policy.

    That’s what I believe he is saying. So what are the policies of this specific agency? It would be interesting to see a better copy of the form, however, other than a minor problem related to the date stamp, the form is fully consistent with having been filed at that time and place.

    Again, much ado about nothing

  81. avatar
    yutube March 30, 2012 at 2:12 pm #

    NBC show us how compression creates layers for the date stamps and the registrar stamp where they can be moved independently in the document in one piece, if not, shut the hell up.

  82. avatar
    nbc March 30, 2012 at 2:12 pm #

    yutube: typical obot wanna be attorney, unsubstantiated comment. Where are the 2 year stamps by the way?

    So far, I have found none other than on somewhat unrelated stamps. No, the USPO stamps all appear to have had 4 digit years. Of course, that we cannot see the 19 on the stamp is hardly conclusive evidence of a fraud. Especially since the date is clearly offset and thus, given that the picture is captured as a B&W bitmap, any hints may have been lost.
    We do know that all the data on the document is consistent with a filing in 1980.

  83. avatar
    nbc March 30, 2012 at 2:18 pm #

    yutube: NBC show us how compression creates layers for the date stamps and the registrar stamp where they can be moved independently in the document in one piece, if not, shut the hell up.

    It’s quite simple. The compression is called Mixed Raster Compression and separates a picture into a background, foreground and mask. The approach is chosen since it was observed that if a picture could be separated into a color bitmap and a monochrome text bitmap, the overall compression can be improved significantly.
    This compression mechanism is used by many PDF software providers, including Adobe and it results in a 8 bit JPEG of a background, and one or more monochrome bitmaps containing the text. We see exactly this kind of behavior in the layers. We also see how some parts of the text are incorrectly assigned to the background JPEG.
    In addition to creating layers, the process also creates a halo effect. Note that the layer not just separates the text, but also shows a ‘gap’ in the background. Exactly as expected. I have documented various relevant parts on my website. Would you be interested in exploring these ‘inconvenient facts’? Or do you prefer ignorance? Your choice…

  84. avatar
    nbc March 30, 2012 at 2:20 pm #

    See these postings where I discuss the compression method and its relevance.

    Cheers.

  85. avatar
    Thrifty March 30, 2012 at 2:24 pm #

    And do you have some evidence that it is the official policy of the Selective Service Administration to retain the original draft registrations forever? I don’t have any evidence that they don’t, so the best I can do is speculate based on what seems most reasonable. And what seems most reasonable is that since keeping the original paper document of every selective service registration makes little sense, it was discarded when the document was digitized.

    yutube:
    Oh Thrifty rental car, you’re such a blinded obot. A retention schedule is a federal policy. Documents are destroyed in the federal government following the specific agency regulations. Records are destroyed by law and not by oh I think it makes sense to destroy this mundane document. Some records that have an extended retention policy are sent to Nara where they are kept for more than 30 years in some instances.

  86. avatar
    yutube March 30, 2012 at 2:27 pm #

    i will definitely explore those facts, give me some time to read it. But will they answer how the registrar’s stamp and the date stamp can be moved independently in the document? This is a warning…

  87. avatar
    nbc March 30, 2012 at 2:38 pm #

    Thrifty: And do you have some evidence that it is the official policy of the Selective Service Administration to retain the original draft registrations forever?

    We have some evidence that suggests that some data has been retained, especially after 1980.

    For men who registered for the draft prior to 1976, the only Selective Service System information available is that of the individual Draft Registration Card (SSS Form 1) and Classification History (SSS Form 102) records.

    All other individual draftee files from that period were destroyed by the Selective Service System in 1978, in accordance with approved records retention schedules. Physical examination and test results, medical letters, laboratory work and other medical documentation that may have been included in these files no longer exist.

    The individual Draft Registration Card (SSS Form 1) may contain information such as: name, Selective Service registration number, age, date and place of birth, ethnicity, place of residence at time of registration and basic physical description.

    The Classification History (SSS Form 102) may contain: name; date of birth; classification and date of mailing notice; date of appeal to the board; date and results of armed forces physical examination; entry into active duty or civilian work in lieu of induction (may include date, branch of service entered and mode of entry, such as enlisted or ordered); date of separation from active duty or civilian work; and general remarks.

    I also learned that

    Categories of individuals covered by the system:
    Registrants of the Selective Service System after 1979 (born after December 31, 1959).
    Categories of records in the system:
    Individual Registration Records:
    a. Registration Form.
    b. Computer tape and microfilm copies containing information provided by the registrant on Registration Form.

    and

    POLICIES AND PRACTICES FOR STORING, RETRIEVING, ACCESSING RETAINING, AND DISPOSING OF RECORDS IN THE SYSTEM:
    STORAGE:
    Records are maintained on microfilm and in the computer system. Microfilm records are indexed by Document Locator Number, which is stored in the computer record

    and retention

    RETENTION AND DISPOSAL: Individual Processing Records:
    -27-
    1. Registration Form – Destroyed by maceration when its information has been transferred onto microfilm and into the computer system. Original microfilm is stored at a Federal Records Center. A microfilm non-record copy is retained at the Data Management Center, in locked steel cabinets. The copies are retained until no longer needed for reference purposes.
    2. The record copy of microfilm and computer tape will be retained until the registrant reaches 85 years of age.

  88. avatar
    nbc March 30, 2012 at 2:42 pm #

    yutube: i will definitely explore those facts, give me some time to read it. But will they answer how the registrar’s stamp and the date stamp can be moved independently in the document? This is a warning…

    Yes, they explain how the document gets separated into a foreground/mask of monochrome bitmap text and a 8 bit jpeg background. It also explains why there appears a gap in the background which would not be found if the stamp layers were placed on top of a background.

    I am not sure what you are warning me against but let me be the first to lay to rest any concerns that the explanations I have provided do not explain these features. In fact, given the evidence, I am willing to argue that they explain the data much better than the alternative scenario presented by ‘experts’. It also is fully consistent with the findings and observations by document examiners.

    Looking forward to your observations.

  89. avatar
    Scientist March 30, 2012 at 2:47 pm #

    yutube (who doesn’t read this site): You are trying to distract with irrelvancies. For the record, I do not know whether the original still exists or has been destroyed. What I DO know is if it exists, Joe has no right to see it. First, his inquiry is, by his own story, UNOFFICIAL. Therefore, he gets treated exactly like you and me. Which means he can file a FOIA request and get a copy. Not the original.

    Now suppose he comes up with some phony baloney pretext of some Arizona law being violated and makes the inquiry official. Guess what? He still doesn”t get the original. The Feds are a separate jurisdiction from the State of Arizona and they do not have to cooperate with a state investigation. They can if they feel like it, but they are fully within their rights not to.

  90. avatar
    gorefan March 30, 2012 at 2:55 pm #

    yutube:
    i will definitely explore those facts, give me some time to read it. But will they answer how the registrar’s stamp and the date stamp can be moved independently in the document? This is a warning…

    All of theindividual layers can be moved independently in the document. The “Non” layer can be moved independently.

    “Bitmasks can also be segmented in order to reduce space. For example, if most of the active masked pixels are contained in a 1454×1819 rectangle, but a small section is located outside that rectangle, then the data can be packed more efficiently by segmenting the mask. Although a larger mask could be used, it would really result it a bitmask with significantly more inactive pixels being stored.”

    http://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/428-After-Birth.html

  91. avatar
    nbc March 30, 2012 at 3:09 pm #

    Without seeing the actual implementation of the Mixed Raster algorithm, it will be difficult to predict the exact parts of a document that are separated. However, knowing the underlying principles one can look at the document and question and observe how the facts match the hypothesis that these are compression generated artifacts.

  92. avatar
    nbc March 30, 2012 at 3:11 pm #

    Scientist: Now suppose he comes up with some phony baloney pretext of some Arizona law being violated and makes the inquiry official. Guess what? He still doesn”t get the original.

    Joe will never be that foolish. All he wants is a media or congressional investigation.

  93. avatar
    BillTheCat March 30, 2012 at 3:14 pm #

    yutube: typical obot wanna be attorney, unsubstantiated comment. Where are the 2 year stamps by the way?

    You mean like all of the wanna-ba attorneys filling out the birther side? The ones who think they know the constitution and laws of the US better than the judges and legal experts who have tossed every case out of court?

    “Unsubstatiated” is actually a great description for the mountains of made up “evidence” against the president.

  94. avatar
    Thomas Brown March 30, 2012 at 3:24 pm #

    nbc: So far, I have found none other than on somewhat unrelated stamps. No, the USPO stamps all appear to have had 4 digit years. Of course, that we cannot see the 19 on the stamp is hardly conclusive evidence of a fraud. Especially since the date is clearly offset and thus, given that the picture is captured as a B&W bitmap, any hints may have been lost.
    We do know that all the data on the document is consistent with a filing in 1980.

    Not to mention that there are a plethora of examples of stamped documents with missing letters. They are obviously not forgeries. So human error or equipment damage is the most likely explanation.

    I’ve seen old ink pads that had chunks out of the pad. The missing pad wouldn’t have inked the “19″, thus making the stamp print “80″.

  95. avatar
    nbc March 30, 2012 at 3:27 pm #

    Thomas Brown: I’ve seen old ink pads that had chunks out of the pad. The missing pad wouldn’t have inked the “19‘, thus making the stamp print “80‘.

    I agree that there are much better explanations than the take a 2008 stamp, cut the ’0′ and ’8′ and reverse argument. Come on surely these stamps are still available, even with a ’1′ and ’9′…

    Compare that with the fact that we know how the document was registered close to other registrations of that time and place and the argument becomes quite lame.

  96. avatar
    yutube March 30, 2012 at 4:30 pm #

    nbc:
    Without seeing the actual implementation of the Mixed Raster algorithm, it will be difficult to predict the exact parts of a document that are separated. However, knowing the underlying principles one can look at the document and question and observe how the facts match the hypothesis that these are compression generated artifacts.

    Ok, I understand the concept of this type of compression creating the different segments, but make a single scan of your birth certificate and by all means use different hardware and applications to scan. Open it in adobe ilustrator and observe the results of the scan.After you apply optimization making sure that it uses the Mixed Raster algorithm. Will they behave the same way than the white house BC? Post those results in your blog. If it creates a separate layer for the registrar’s and the date stamps and you can select/move and manipulate those groups the same way you can do with Obama’s BC, then you have conclusively debunked the Posse. That’s what I want to see.

  97. avatar
    yutube March 30, 2012 at 4:41 pm #

    Thrifty: And what seems most reasonable is that since keeping the original paper document of every selective service registration makes little sense, it was discarded when the document was digitized.

    I agree it makes little sense, but that’s not how the fed works. Actually, lots of federal regulations makes no sense.

  98. avatar
    bovril March 30, 2012 at 4:42 pm #

    And here is where the intellectual paucity of the Birfoon is exposed for all to see.

    Unless you use the EXACT same hardware, exact same software, exact same computer, exact same scanner, exact same configuratioon settings yiu will NEVER be able to identicvally duplicate the discrete effects.

    So for example, as the meta data in the LFBC demonstrates it was scanned using a MAC using the inbuilt O/S level API’s to run the scan who oh why did the “experts of the Cold Custard Pussies” use a Windows PC a Windows application etc…?

  99. avatar
    nbc March 30, 2012 at 4:43 pm #

    yutube: Ok, I understand the concept of this type of compression creating the different segments, but make a single scan of your birth certificate and by all means use different hardware and applications to scan. Open it in adobe ilustrator and observe the results of the scan.After you apply optimization making sure that it uses the Mixed Raster algorithm. Will they behave the same way than the white house BC? Post those results in your blog. If it creates a separate layer for the registrar’s and the date stamps and you can select/move and manipulate those groups the same way you can do with Obama’s BC, then you have conclusively debunked the Posse. That’s what I want to see.

    I appreciate that you are now moving the goalposts. Let’s for the moment though focus on a much more interesting topic. Do the ‘explanations’ provided by the Cold Case Posse match better what is observed than what is expected from Mixed Raster Compression?

    It explains the existence of different monochrome colored bitmaps of the stamps and the text. It explains why some parts of the text were not captured by the algorithm and bled onto the background, and it explains the halo and ‘hole’ in the background.

    In order to recreate what is observed, there is one component to which I have no access and that is a long form birth certificate from Hawaii on security paper. The resolution of the online versions are too low to allow for a repetition of the experiment.

    The problem is that unless we have access to the same setup used, it may be hard, if not impossible to recreate the exact same effect, but that should not discourage us from observing that at least in principle, Mixed Raster Compression could result in the observed layering.

    Now there are more reasons why the Cold Case Posse’s arguments should be rejected, but I’d rather focus first on the compression argument and how you have now attempted to move the goalposts.

    Remember your original request

    NBC show us how compression creates layers for the date stamps and the registrar stamp where they can be moved independently in the document in one piece, if not, shut the hell up.

    It must be hard to accept these facts, and I do understand… The emotional investment has been high.

    Cheers…

  100. avatar
    nbc March 30, 2012 at 4:44 pm #

    bovril: So for example, as the meta data in the LFBC demonstrates it was scanned using a MAC using the inbuilt O/S level API’s to run the scan who oh why did the “experts of the Cold Custard Pussies” use a Windows PC a Windows application etc…?

    Yes, no self respecting ‘expert’ would have made such a foolish mistake. One tries to match as closely as possible the known environment. But that’s the least of their problems.

  101. avatar
    yutube March 30, 2012 at 4:49 pm #

    bovril:
    And here is where the intellectual paucity of the Birfoon is exposed for all to see.

    Unless you use the EXACT same hardware, exact same software, exact same computer, exact same scanner, exact same configuratioon settings yiu will NEVER be able to identicvally duplicate the discrete effects.

    So for example, as the meta data in the LFBC demonstrates it was scanned using a MAC using the inbuilt O/S level API’s to run the scan who oh why did the “experts of the Cold Custard Pussies” use a Windows PC a Windows application etc…?

    Good try, but in computer science, you don’t have to use the exact same hardware or application to recreate the same effect. This actually goes against the principle and concepts of computer science.

  102. avatar
    nbc March 30, 2012 at 4:51 pm #

    yutube: I agree it makes little sense, but that’s not how the fed works. Actually, lots of federal regulations makes no sense.

    A totally meaningless statement… But it does help understand you a bit better. Blanket statements like this rarely indicate evidence of deep though and adequate consideration to arguments.

    But the data I provided does suggest that the originals may no longer be available… So regardless of the relevance of your sweeping and over-generalizing claim, the issue appears to have been resolved.

    Cheers.

  103. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 30, 2012 at 4:55 pm #

    yutube: Federal general retention schedule policies varies by agency. Show in this blog what is the SSS retention schedule policy instead.

    nbc has posted the information. It appears the original of Obama’s registration was shredded. Now what?

  104. avatar
    nbc March 30, 2012 at 4:56 pm #

    yutube: Good try, but in computer science, you don’t have to use the exact same hardware or application to recreate the same effect. This actually goes against the principle and concepts of computer science.

    I notice that you may not really understand the concept of ‘computer science’. Sure, if you have the full implementation details of the algorithm, you can, at least in principle determine how a particular image is going to be interpreted. But, the image is captured through a pipeline which introduces additional variations. So, contrary to your statement, in order to recreate the exact same effect, you need to make sure that all environmental parameters are the same or a negative outcome means little.

    We already know that the algorithm will separate text from the background and that it can lead to halos, we also know that the algorithm will create ‘holes; in the background and we know that the algorithm is present in various PDF tools.

    If one wants to establish that under no given circumstance, the document as it exists, could have been created without some forgery, then one has to 1) exhaust the full parameter space 2) recreate the original parameter space.

    These are fundamental principles in experimental science. Hope you understand. If not, let me know.

  105. avatar
    nbc March 30, 2012 at 4:57 pm #

    CarlOrcas: nbc has posted the information. It appears the original of Obama’s registration was shredded. Now what?

    Indeed, now what… Such a bummer that the facts could be found with minimal effort on my part and yet, birthers appear to be unable or unwilling to even search for it.

    Intellectual laziness does bother me…

  106. avatar
    Graham Shevlin March 30, 2012 at 4:57 pm #

    This is all bullcrap…

    1. the Posse has no legitimate reason to exist, it is not an official law enforcement body recognized by other law enforcement and government agencies. You do not get to whistle up your own posse just because you don’t like something that has happened. The Wild West (or our conception of it) ended a long time ago.
    2. Sheriff Arpaio is a county law sheriff, not a state or federal law enforcement officer. He has no jurisdiction outside of Maricopa County AZ. Any involvement by him in state or federl law enforcement is outside of his duties, unless he is specifically asked to be involved in such work by a state or federal law enforcement or investigative body? Which body meeting that standard asked him to become involved? (HINT – World Net Daily is not a state or federal level body).
    3. In any attempt to demonstrate proof of eligibility, especially given that Barack Obama was declared eligible and elected to the presidency in 2008, the burden of proof rests with the plaintiffs, not the defendant. Those bringing the complaints or actions have to prove their case. The current score of at least 0-122 at all levels of the executive or judicial branches shows that they are doing a lousy job of providing any proof so far. So..if you you think (for example) that Barack Obama’s long form birth certificate is a forgery, find an accredited expert with demonstrable qualifications, experience and a track record of Getting Things Right and enter their testimony into the public record. That expert will of course have to agree to be cross-examined in a hearing or a court if necessary, under standard sworn testimony rules. .
    4. The report from the Posse has in large part been constructed from public domain writings, many of them from the web site World Net Daily. This proves fairly conclusively that no matter what Sheriff Arpaio claims, none of the investigative work done by the posse actually happened. This actually a good thing for Arpaio, since it reduces the chance that he is going to have to explain why he is expending his department’s time on the Posse. However, it does not move anything further forward, and reduces the value of the Posse’s report to that of a bird-cage liner.
    5. There has been no attempt by Sheriff Arpaio (that he has admitted to) to make the information from the Posse report available to any of the three branches of the government for action to be taken. If the evidence is compelling, Arpaio should be banging on doors all over the place. There is no evidence that he is doing this.

    The trolls coming here can dive-bomb all they like, but those fundamental truths remain, and I have not seen a response worth a damn to any of them from a Birther yet. All we see is bullcrap, obfuscation, misdirection and (if all else fails) a retreat to Conspiracy TheorySpeak and ad hominem attacks.

  107. avatar
    nbc March 30, 2012 at 5:01 pm #

    Graham Shevlin: 5. There has been no attempt by Sheriff Arpaio (that he has admitted to) to make the information from the Posse report available to any of the three branches of the government for action to be taken. If the evidence is compelling, Arpaio should be banging on doors all over the place. There is no evidence that he is doing this.

    And evidence of real violations of law such as the access to Obama’s SSN has somehow failed to be noticed by Arpaio and his ‘crack team’. And yet, would that not open them up to misprision of felony?

    Fascinating how these clowns go about their business. But if they really believed in what they have found, we would have seen criminal charges filed and an official investigation by Arpaio. But this is all about getting the media to run with these myths and the media has refused to be a tool.

  108. avatar
    yutube March 30, 2012 at 5:02 pm #

    nbc: The problem is that unless we have access to the same setup used, it may be hard, if not impossible to recreate the exact same effect, but that should not discourage us from observing that at least in principle, Mixed Raster Compression could result in the observed layering.

    I have a huge problem with this comment. The layering is not the issue, you can use any compression that will create similar layerings.

    All you have to show is how any scanned document using Mixed Raster Compression results in the ability to select a date stamp and a registrar stamp the same way you can in Obama’s. That’s not moving the goal post, that’s the exact same argument. Prove it.

  109. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 30, 2012 at 5:07 pm #

    pauls88: arpaio and zullo have explained how and why they have standing in this issue. they have explained how and why they have the authority to pursue this.

    For the sake of discussion let’s say that is correct (it isn’t but nevermind for now): Why do you believe Arpaio (Zullo has no police powers) hasn’t referred this matter to the Maricopa County Attorney for charges…..either through information or for presentation to a grand jury?

  110. avatar
    nbc March 30, 2012 at 5:12 pm #

    I have a huge problem with this comment. The layering is not the issue, you can use any compression that will create similar layerings.

    All you have to show is how any scanned document using Mixed Raster Compression results in the ability to select a date stamp and a registrar stamp the same way you can in Obama’s. That’s not moving the goal post, that’s the exact same argument. Prove it.

    So you accept now that MRC can indeed explain the separation of text and background. That’s a good start. What I have shown is how MRC would explain various aspects that led the Cold Case Posse to declare it to be ‘fraudulent’. I do not have the burden to prove that the document is real, the fact that the DOH has declared it to be so is sufficient prima facie evidence that indicates that President Obama was indeed born on US soil and thus a natural born citizen. The question is much simpler: Do the accusations of fraud by the Cold Case Posse hold up under scrutiny? As I have shown, they do not as there exists an alternative explanation which is much more plausible given the observed data.

    If your ‘argument’ now becomes that I cannot recreate the exact same conditions then you have accepted my arguments that neither can the Cold Case Posse and thus their findings are meaningless.

    Thanks for playing my friend.

    If you want to know why the date stamps and signature stamp are separate from the other text, then the answer is trivially simple: When observing the document as a copy rather than a scan (AP version, Savannah Guthrie photograph) it is clear that these stamps have a distinctly different color and since the algorithm separates in background, mask and foreground, where foreground is a monochromatic color, again, the separation is to be expected.

    But since you like to move the burden, let me ask you this: How do you explain the existance of the halo and the ‘blank but not white’ holes in the background exactly where the text was found? If it had been a forgery, the background would have been solid with the text overlaid on it. Instead we notice exactly the same features we observe when the MRC is applied.

    So are you now retreating to: Well, the Cold Case Posse’s analysis is irrelevant but now the burden is on you to show to repeat the exact same environmental conditions that were present when the document was originally scanned? Surely you must understand that under these conditions, an inability to recreate exactly the same effects, to all its details, is unlikely and thus cannot be argued to show evidence of forgery.

    Bummer…

  111. avatar
    nbc March 30, 2012 at 5:13 pm #

    CarlOrcas: For the sake of discussion let’s say that is correct (it isn’t but nevermind for now): Why do you believe Arpaio (Zullo has no police powers) hasn’t referred this matter to the Maricopa County Attorney for charges…..either through information or for presentation to a grand jury?

    Excellent question and the answer is so simple, I believe. Even Joe would not be that foolish…

  112. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 30, 2012 at 5:14 pm #

    Graham Shevlin: This is all bullcrap…1. the Posse has no legitimate reason to exist, it is not an official law enforcement body recognized by other law enforcement and government agencies.

    Sheriff Arpaio is a county law sheriff, not a state or federal law enforcement officer. He has no jurisdiction outside of Maricopa County AZ. Any involvement by him in state or federl law enforcement is outside of his duties,

    .

    Couple points of clairification:

    Posses are legitimate components of most Arizona sheriff’s departments They are all volunteers, with no peace officer authority, and are used primarily for search and rescue and non-hazardous patrol duties.

    Arpaio, like all Arizona peace officers, has full time authority throughout the state of Arizona and does not need anyone’s permission enforce laws outside the county. His department has had limited Federal authority dealing with illegal immigrants but I believe all those agreements have been cancelled.

  113. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 30, 2012 at 5:22 pm #

    nbc: Excellent question and the answer is so simple, I believe. Even Joe would not be that foolish…

    Oh, he’s capable of being that foolish…..and more….but, in this case, he has nothing. Nothing prepared by certified peace officers whose authority would be the basis for charges.

    Jerome Corsi and Mara Zebest don’t make the grade. And the posse’s “Chief Investigator” has no police powers.

    Other than that he’s got a hell of a case.

  114. avatar
    gorefan March 30, 2012 at 5:26 pm #

    yutube: Where are the 2 year stamps by the way?

    There with the first “O” in Honolulu.

  115. avatar
    yutube March 30, 2012 at 5:30 pm #

    nbc: I notice that you may not really understand the concept of computer science’. Sure, if you have the full implementation details of the algorithm, you can, at least in principle determine how a particular image is going to be interpreted. But, the image is captured through a pipeline which introduces additional variations. So, contrary to your statement, in order to recreate the exact same effect, you need to make sure that all environmental parameters are the same or a negative outcome means little.

    We already know that the algorithm will separate text from the background and that it can lead to halos, we also know that the algorithm will create ‘holes; in the background and we know that the algorithm is present in various PDF tools.

    If one wants to establish that under no given circumstance, the document as it exists, could have been created without some forgery, then one has to 1) exhaust the full parameter space 2) recreate the original parameter space.

    These are fundamental principles in experimental science. Hope you understand. If not, let me know.

    PDF Compression Algorithms are for the most part cross-platform based. I know for a fact that JPEG compression bahaves this way. Different environmental parameters such as different scanners/hardware if using the same compression technique should not affect the end result and behavior of those algorithms. You need alot more research to deemed the Posse fools before posting unsubstantiated articles in your blog.

  116. avatar
    y_p_w March 30, 2012 at 5:40 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Arpaio, like all Arizona peace officers, has full time authority throughout the state of Arizona and does not need anyone’s permission enforce laws outside the county. His department has had limited Federal authority dealing with illegal immigrants but I believe all those agreements have been cancelled.

    I think it’s a little bit more complicated than that.

    http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/13/03871.htm&Title=13&DocType=ARS

    13-3871. Authority of peace officers

    The authority of a peace officer may extend in any of the following circumstances to any place within the state:

    1. Where he has the prior consent of the chief of police, marshal, sheriff, or other department or agency head with peace officer jurisdiction, or his duly authorized representative, having the primary responsibility for law enforcement within the jurisdiction or territory.

    2. Under any of the circumstances set forth in section 13-3883.

    And 13-3883:

    http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/13/03883.htm&Title=13&DocType=ARS

    13-3883. Arrest by officer without warrant

    A. A peace officer, without a warrant, may arrest a person if the officer has probable cause to believe:

    1. A felony has been committed and probable cause to believe the person to be arrested has committed the felony.

    2. A misdemeanor has been committed in the officer’s presence and probable cause to believe the person to be arrested has committed the offense.

    3. The person to be arrested has been involved in a traffic accident and violated any criminal section of title 28, and that such violation occurred prior to or immediately following such traffic accident.

    4. A misdemeanor or a petty offense has been committed and probable cause to believe the person to be arrested has committed the offense. A person arrested under this paragraph is eligible for release under section 13-3903.

    5. The person to be arrested has committed any public offense that makes the person removable from the United States.

    B. A peace officer may stop and detain a person as is reasonably necessary to investigate an actual or suspected violation of any traffic law committed in the officer’s presence and may serve a copy of the traffic complaint for any alleged civil or criminal traffic violation. A peace officer who serves a copy of the traffic complaint shall do so within a reasonable time of the alleged criminal or civil traffic violation.

  117. avatar
    yutube March 30, 2012 at 5:54 pm #

    nbc: The question is much simpler: Do the accusations of fraud by the Cold Case Posse hold up under scrutiny? As I have shown, they do not as there exists an alternative explanation which is much more plausible given the observed data.
    If your argument’ now becomes that I cannot recreate the exact same conditions then you have accepted my arguments that neither can the Cold Case Posse and thus their findings are meaningless.

    Because you have not shown in “practice” how the algorithm behaves in an optimized scanned document and how you can manipulate those segments in Illustrator the same way you can manipulate the white house BC, you have yet to conclusively debunk the Posse’s argument and therefore have not shown anything. It can’t get any more simpler than that.

  118. avatar
    G March 30, 2012 at 6:21 pm #

    Well, your entire premise is FLAWED. This site doesn’t have to even be here and no one needs to be bothering with “debunking” the Cold Case Posse’s “arguments” at all.

    The ONUS is completely on the CCP to make an actual case and pursue it through the appropriate legal avenues.

    The entire BURDEN of making an actual substantiated and viable case is on THEM.

    If none of us random individuals were wasting any time paying attention to it at all, that wouldn’t make a difference and woulnd’t at all change the REAL WORLD burden of evidentiary proof that THEY have to overcome.

    Discussions of topics in cyberspace are just that – discussions. They have no other relevance or impact. Which is why Birtherism has always been and will always remain a FAILED MEME. All you can do is waste time squawking and spinning online, but you have ZERO real evidence that you can put forth and pursue in the real world.

    If these issues REALLY mattered to you, you wouldn’t be wasting your time here. No, if you actually believed any of the bunk you spew, you would be devoting all your efforts towards pushing the Sheriff to actually DO something with his so-called “evidence” instead of simply hosting hollow “press conferences”…

    …Yet I don’t see you being very concerned in actually pushing to pursue these matters in the REAL world…. why is that?

    yutube: Because you have not shown in “practice” how the algorithm behaves in an optimized scanned document and how you can manipulate those segments in Illustrator the same way you can manipulate the white house BC, you have yet to conclusively debunk the Posse’s argument and therefore have not shown anything. It can’t get any more simpler than that.

  119. avatar
    nbc March 30, 2012 at 6:32 pm #

    yutube: Because you have not shown in “practice” how the algorithm behaves in an optimized scanned document and how you can manipulate those segments in Illustrator the same way you can manipulate the white house BC, you have yet to conclusively debunk the Posse’s argument and therefore have not shown anything. It can’t get any more simpler than that.

    But I have shown this. I have shown how the algorithm separates a document into a background JPEG and (one or more) foreground monochrome bitmaps, exactly as we observe. I have shown how the same process generates the halo and the ‘holes in the background’. The Cold Case Posse suggested that the document was forged when I have shown that a much better explanation exists for the observations.

    You yourself have admitted that MRC can explain the layers. So the arguments by the Cold Case Posse have no real relevance.

    That you are unwilling to accept these simple facts is not really much of a surprise to me as some people have invested a lot of negative emotions into this issue and thus when confronted with a simple and elegant explanation, their first response is denial.

    For instance, the Cold Case Posse has not shown how the holes in the background and the halo can be formed, why a forger would take such a step and worse, they have failed to even disclose that a simple process of compression can explain all this. And yes, we see all the expected factors for such compression.

    Sorry my friend, you asked me to show how the process could explain the observations and I have done so.

    So what have you learned from this? If anything?

  120. avatar
    nbc March 30, 2012 at 6:38 pm #

    yutube: PDF Compression Algorithms are for the most part cross-platform based. I know for a fact that JPEG compression bahaves this way. Different environmental parameters such as different scanners/hardware if using the same compression technique should not affect the end result and behavior of those algorithms. You need alot more research to deemed the Posse fools before posting unsubstantiated articles in your blog.

    Well if you accept this then the simple fact that a scan of a document using the optimization results in a separation into JPEG and bitmaps, exactly as expected from the algorithm, does show significant support for my hypothesis. But worse, it undermines the amateurish arguments by the Cold Case Posse, that such can only be explained by a forgery, without explaining why a forger would go through these steps. Why separate some letters and not others, why create a background ‘hole’, why monochrome bitmaps? Nothing of this really makes sense, and yet a simple algorithm does explain the observations in an elegant manner, not requiring any ‘magical steps’. Given that I have shown that there is no foundation to the Cold Case Posse’s arguments AND I have shown how a simple and real algorithm present in many PDF software, is known to create the observed features and I would say that the Cold Case Posse has failed.

    But if you believe that some unresolved issues remain, then feel free to point them out and I will help you understand.

    In the end, I appreciate your honesty that you have come to accept that MRC in principle can explain all the observations and thus an accusation of forgery requires something more than just saying: Look this is how a forger could have done it.

    Good luck my friend and thank you for allowing me the opportunity to show why the Cold Case Posse is without many clothes.

    Cheers.

  121. avatar
    nbc March 30, 2012 at 6:46 pm #

    Remember some of the more foolish assertions made by Zebest?

    The White House wants us to believe the PDF document started out in printed form on security paper retrieved from Hawaii—but this is not possible.

    Not only is it possible but quite plausible as well.

    Poor Cold Case Posse. Then again, Mara also overlooked the raised seal and ignored the fact that several people observed and one person, Savannah Guthrie even took pictures of the actual long form, a form which the DOH certifies to have been delivered to the white house and which shows, once again, that President Obama was born on US soil.

    Unless one wishes to argue that two Hawaiian administrations and several DOH officials all have lied, there is no other conclusion to be drawn than that Mara’s assertions fail because of logic, reason and known facts.

    That she has been quite anti-Obama from the beginning may help understand why she reached her conclusion in what I see as a haphazard manner. All the features below can be explained by the MRC compression

    nconsistencies within text characters: All anti-aliased text (in a color scan), or all bitmapped text (in a black & white scan)— not a mixture of both which is impossible in a legitimate document. Image noise should also be consistent throughout.
    * Chromatic aberration absent: A color scanned document would display chromatic aberration. This is physics and occurs in all color scans but is absent in Obama’s PDF document.
    * Layers: A normal scan is a flat file and does not contain multiple layers. The Obama PDF contains 9 layers and grouped to a clipping mask layer.
    * Links: Indicate that components were pasted into the file, rotated, and resized.
    * Clipping Mask Path hides image information: Proof of manipulation.
    * Safety paper and white halo: Manufactured in final steps.

    Cheers…

  122. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 30, 2012 at 7:13 pm #

    nbc: Indeed, now what… Such a bummer that the facts could be found with minimal effort on my part and yet, birthers appear to be unable or unwilling to even search for it.
    Intellectual laziness does bother me…

    Maybe Sheriff Arpaio wouldn’t let the posse use the computers at their office and that’s why they couldn’t find the information either. Just a thought.

  123. avatar
    Geir Smith March 30, 2012 at 7:23 pm #

    There are two things here:

    First, why not let Arpaio see all the relevant documents?

    Second, there’s no force on earth which can stop him now he’s got the Ex-Communist countries (Pravda and Voice of Russia have done several stories and now the Chech republic too.) backing him by covering the news.

  124. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 30, 2012 at 7:23 pm #

    y_p_w: I think it’s a little bit more complicated than that.

    Actually it’s not. I’ve been through this too many times here to go through it again but suffice it to say that I’ve probably read most of Title 13 a hundred times over the years and I was there when state certification of peace officers went into effect and the law changed to provide statewide authority.

  125. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 30, 2012 at 7:32 pm #

    I think the better question is: why let him see them?

    He has no jurisdiction. He has no expertise. The whole thing is a publicity stunt. Why should the Selective Service System go out of its way to aid such a thing?

    You’re basically asking what harm is there in coddling nut case conspiracy theorists. There is a lot of harm in that. Giving him anything legitimizes his illegitimate investigation.

    Let me ask you, what harm was there in letting Joe McCarthy conduct his HUAC hearings in the 1050′s?

    Geir Smith: First, why not let Arpaio see all the relevant documents?

  126. avatar
    nbc March 30, 2012 at 7:33 pm #

    Geir Smith: First, why not let Arpaio see all the relevant documents?

    A much better question is: Why should they?

    Second, there’s no force on earth which can stop him now he’s got the Ex-Communist countries (Pravda and Voice of Russia have done several stories and now the Chech republic too.) backing him by covering the news.

    ROTFL… One my start to wonder who the real plant could be :-)

  127. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 30, 2012 at 7:56 pm #

    I didn’t know you had a sense of humor.

    Geir Smith: Second, there’s no force on earth which can stop him now he’s got the Ex-Communist countries (Pravda and Voice of Russia have done several stories and now the Chech republic too.) backing him by covering the news.

  128. avatar
    y_p_w March 30, 2012 at 7:58 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Actually it’s not. I’ve been through this too many times here to go through it again but suffice it to say that I’ve probably read most of Title 13 a hundred times over the years and I was there when state certification of peace officers went into effect and the law changed to provide statewide authority.

    So the law in its plain language is probably more complex than it reads? I’ve certainly gottent that impression from many laws on the books.

    It’s certainly different than I know from my home state. Basically a peace officer from a local LE agency outside his political jurisdiction has no authority to enforce state laws unless it’s an immediate danger to life or property. There are of course exceptions for mutual aid requests or cases where there’s a joint task force. I’ve seen city police enforce search and arrest warrants across county lines, although I think that’s probably legal if it’s signed by a judge.

    There are some interesting things under the law, such as several agencies with statewide authority to make any arrest anywhere. CHP can do that. So can state park LE rangers. Ironically enough, so can the now infamous University of Californai Police.

    There’s a controversial school district police force in Northern California that went out of its way to conduct traffic stops and responded to burglary calls well off school grounds, as well as patrolling local neighborhoods looking for things such as cars to tow. They apparently issued a virtual quota that their officers needed to average a certain number of traffic stops and car tows per day, which was quickly rescinded. However, a quick reading of the law indicated that they had no such authority unless it were adjacent to a school or it were an emergency. Their department website claimed that they had statewide peace officer authority, even though the law was clear that they were not to be considered general law enforcement, and that their peace officer authority typically was restricted to their primary jurisdiction of school grounds and protecting school personnel and students. It came to a head when one of their officers got shot after he pulled over someone for an expired vehicle tag. The perp was caught by local police and died in local police custody. The local police and sheriff’s dept that patrolled the areas of the school district (across city and unincorporated areas) made public complaints that this school district police dept was call jumping and interfering with their attempts at community policing. They were working hard trying to gain the trust of the community, while this school police was going into the same neighborhoods trying to make arrests and gain revenue for relatively minor things that the primary LE generally let off with warnings.

  129. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 30, 2012 at 8:10 pm #

    y_p_w: It’s certainly different than I know from my home state.

    We have been through this before. The laws are similar in Arizona and California (Your home state?) in that certified level one peace officers have full authority anywhere in the state.

    Most peace officers in the state fall into that category. I suggest you review the California Penal Code starting at about section 830. It goes on for section after section, page after page, dealing with this.

    That said I don’t see that this discussion needs to be resumed since it adds nothing to the subject of this thread.

  130. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 30, 2012 at 8:14 pm #

    So if I read this right, you know about JPEG compression, but you’re just bullshitting about PDF’s?

    The point here is that we’re not talking about compression but about optimization. PDF is a standard, but that standard encompasses a host of other compression standards that can be combined in innumerable combinations in an optimization strategy.

    Long before the long form was released I sent Dr. Krawetz another PDF, asking if it was legit. He replied that he hated PDFs because there were so many different ways things could be done inside a PDF.

    What we know is that the PDF algorithms used on a Mac are not based on the Adobe code. The Mac stuff has an open source heritage.

    yutube: PDF Compression Algorithms are for the most part cross-platform based. I know for a fact that JPEG compression bahaves (sic)this way.

  131. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 30, 2012 at 8:16 pm #

    Geir Smith: Second, there’s no force on earth which can stop him now he’s got the Ex-Communist countries (Pravda and Voice of Russia have done several stories and now the Chech republic too.) backing him by covering the news.

    Yep. That Pravada On Line column from the American who attends a remote learning law school on the internet has Obama quaking in his boots.

  132. avatar
    J. Potter March 30, 2012 at 8:20 pm #

    Geir Smith: First, why not let Arpaio see all the relevant documents?

    Ever give a mouse a cookie?

    He’ll eat it.

  133. avatar
    J. Potter March 30, 2012 at 8:28 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: So if I read this right, you know about JPEG compression, but you’re just bullshitting about PDF’s?

    Just occurred to me just how impossible educating a birther about anything digital is.

    Ever tried to explain any technology to an elderly parent or friend? In any capacity? Isn’t it frustrating? It can be literally impossible, and often ends in frustration for all involved.

    And that is with a willing participant who has an interest in “getting it”!

    So now replace your willing but hapless student with an intransigent birther* … an unwilling participant who is actively opposed to “getting it”.

    Ready? Go!

    (good luck)

    ___________

    * World being as small as it is, it might be the same person! ;)

  134. avatar
    Scientist March 30, 2012 at 8:28 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Let me ask you, what harm was there in letting Joe McCarthy conduct his HUAC hearings in the 1050′s?

    Demonstrating perfectly how easy it is to change a Hawaii zip code to Connecticut!!

  135. avatar
    y_p_w March 30, 2012 at 8:35 pm #

    CarlOrcas: We have been through this before. The laws are similar in Arizona and California (Your home state?) in that certified level one peace officers have full authority anywhere in the state.

    I guess this is going nowhere, but I’ve read CPC 830, and it’s clear that local police and sheriff’s departments regular authority as peace officers ends outside of their political jurisdictions (the term used is “political subdivision”). I know of one police department (Kensington Police) in an unincorporated area of my county. It’s authority is not from a city government, but from a special public safety district that also handles the fire department. Otherwise, this area would be served by the county sheriff’s dept and the county fire dept.

    From CPC 830.1:

    “The authority of these peace officers [sheriffs or local police)
    extends to any place in the state, as follows:
    (1) As to any public offense committed or which there is probable
    cause to believe has been committed within the political subdivision
    that employs the peace officer or in which the peace officer serves.”

    I’m still wondering what’s Arpaio’s authority to investigate. If he’s investigating anything, it would be a federal matter for a “violation” that occurred outside the border of his state, and the Arizona statute indicates that his authority only extends to felony matters within the state.

  136. avatar
    GeorgetownJD March 30, 2012 at 8:56 pm #

    Geir Smith:
    Why the big accent on Arpaio?

    He’s just doing his job.

    His job is to protect the citizens of Maricopa County from violent crime. To investigate reports of child sex abuse. He should get on with his job.

  137. avatar
    Majority Will March 30, 2012 at 9:09 pm #

    GeorgetownJD: His job is to protect the citizens of Maricopa County from violent crime.To investigate reports of child sex abuse.He should get on with his job.

    I heard Arpaio is investigating reports of a biblical demon possessing a seriously disturbed, sociopathic ex-pat living in France.

  138. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 30, 2012 at 9:34 pm #

    y_p_w: guess this is going nowhere, but I’ve read CPC 830, and it’s clear that local police and sheriff’s departments regular authority as peace officers ends outside of their political jurisdictions (the term used is “political subdivision”).

    You have to read more. 830 was passed in the late 1960′s…about a decade after CAPOST was established in order to clean up a lot of issues. It was quickly amended to define peace officer authority as I have discussed. In the meantime it has been modified and amended by page after page of sections that deal with specific agencies, types of jobs, etc.

    y_p_w: I’m still wondering what’s Arpaio’s authority to investigate. If he’s investigating anything, it would be a federal matter for a “violation” that occurred outside the border of his state, and the Arizona statute indicates that his authority only extends to felony matters within the state.

    The theory is that the President or his agent would have filed a false affidavit to get him on the ballot if he were, in fact, not a citizen.

    That could be his authority…..if it wasn’t nonsense.

    And, one last time, his authority (as a peace officer) covers felonies and misdemeanors anywhere in the state.

  139. avatar
    J. Potter March 30, 2012 at 9:53 pm #

    GeorgetownJD: To investigate reports of child sex abuse. He should get on with his job.

    Allegedly he runs successful doggie sex stings (entrapment!). Surely child sex is next on the list. You may still call his priorities in question, but he is active on the sex front.

  140. avatar
    Thomas Brown March 30, 2012 at 10:14 pm #

    GeorgetownJD: His job is to protect the citizens of Maricopa County from violent crime.To investigate reports of child sex abuse.He should get on with his job.

    Oh, I dunno. Maybe all the time spent on this CCP activity will keep Arpaio from committing any more of the child sex offenses he’s not investigating. After all that would be self-incriminating, and we can’t have that!

  141. avatar
    richCares March 30, 2012 at 10:59 pm #

    scenario: Sheriff Joe & posse testifites to pixells and pdf’s, then Obama’s lawyer walks up to Judge and hands him original copy (no layers and pixels), does the Sheriff keep taking his pixel story or does he ask yutube for help on explaining PDF Compression Algorithms?

  142. avatar
    Keith March 31, 2012 at 2:06 am #

    nbc: So far, I have found none other than on somewhat unrelated stamps. No, the USPO stamps all appear to have had 4 digit years. Of course, that we cannot see the 19 on the stamp is hardly conclusive evidence of a fraud. Especially since the date is clearly offset and thus, given that the picture is captured as a B&W bitmap, any hints may have been lost.
    We do know that all the data on the document is consistent with a filing in 1980.

    OK, the obvious conclusion about the missing century number is an imperfect inking, impression, or worn slug.

    But how about shifting in to “Birther mode” for a moment and consider this: what if the SS form was obtained as a PDF file. If that was the case, it would undoubtedly have layers wouldn’t it?

    Now if the century numbers were actually there on the original document, but inked badly or the impression was lighter than the year numbers, the creation of the PDF might very well have separated them into a layer all by themselves, especially if the numbers were difficult to recognize by the creation software. See where I’m going here?

    Now if someone were to open that PDF file with an appropriate PDF editing program, they could identify the separate layers and simply remove the layer containing the century number. This assumes that that layer contains those numbers and nothing else of course, and that the background is essentially monotone whitespace.

    Too far fetched? Maybe. But haven’t we witnessed forgery from the birthers before?

    This is a PDF file manipulation that could actually be accomplished with the right software tool and with very little skill. There is no impossible construction and matching of layers overlapping each other and complicated background masks. It is just eliminating a layer that doesn’t make itself obvious in any other way.

  143. avatar
    Keith March 31, 2012 at 2:09 am #

    yutube: This is a warning…

    Of what?

  144. avatar
    Keith March 31, 2012 at 2:20 am #

    gorefan: There with the first “O” in Honolulu.

    Oh yeah. I forgot about that one. Maybe the ‘o’ was somehow on the same deleted layer as the century numbers?

  145. avatar
    justlw March 31, 2012 at 2:44 am #

    yutube: the ability to select a date stamp and a registrar stamp the same way you can in Obama’s

    Thing is, you can’t in Obama’s.

    If you “select the registrar stamp” and move it, all you move is the bitmask. The stamp is still in the original location. You can even see this in the CCP videos. I don’t see how the capability to move the bitmask, but not the stamp itself, is of any benefit to a forger.

    And another thing you can’t do with the PDF, by the way, is produce the higher resolution copies that the White House handed out at the 2011 press gaggle.

    Which means, as people have said over and over again: examining the PDF is pointless, because it cannot be the original document.

    Anything you can do with the PDF is therefore “downstream” of the original document, and thus cannot have any effect on the original document.

  146. avatar
    jayHG March 31, 2012 at 7:21 am #

    yutube:
    yet another speculation. Federal general retention schedule policies varies by agency. Show in this blog what is the SSS retention schedule policy instead.

    Look it up yourself! Who do you think you are giving research assignments!?!?

  147. avatar
    Steve March 31, 2012 at 8:55 am #

    Arpaio expected nothing less from the Selective Service. Evidence means nothing to those that are covering for Barry.
    This site, is an interesting conglomeration of fictional but certifiable b.s. It does have some entertainment value though.
    What I’m wondering is exactly what the “host” of this site is getting out of all this? Perhaps the host cannot stand to see Obama attacked in such a vicious manner? “It’s just not fair?” Who knows?
    Anyway I couldn’t find the appropiate quote of the day any where on this site. I’ll supply it for you as it is applies perfectly here … I’ll through in an extra one …

    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.”

    and

    “The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one.”

    Adolf Hitler

  148. avatar
    Geir Smith March 31, 2012 at 9:03 am #

    CarlOrcas: Yep. That Pravada On Line column from the American who attends a remote learning law school on the internet has Obama quaking in his boots.

    Pravda alone is the offical Communist paper that’s passed onto the web. Also, Voice Of Russia’s (ex-Radio Moscow) given an interview to Arpaio, and also Czech Republic’s Neviditelný pes (The Invisible Dog), a popular news website from Prague.

    Obama seems to fear these ex-communists talking up the Birth Issue seeing he agreed to give the missiles to Demetriev on Friday.

    They’re blackmailing the black man.

  149. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 31, 2012 at 9:08 am #

    Your remark about “fiction” rings hollow. I know how much care I take to verify the information published in articles here, and I provide an open forum where criticism is accepted. Valid complaints result in the correction of any mistakes that inadvertently are made.

    I don’t know what psychological need is met by your saying what you said, but such a claim, accompanied by not a single specific, impresses no one, and you might as well have typed your comment into Notepad, and closed the program without saving, for all the good it will do you.

    (Steve’s unfortunate reference to Hitler, threw his comment into moderation.)

    Steve: This site, is an interesting conglomeration of fictional but certifiable b.s. It does have some entertainment value though.

  150. avatar
    Majority Will March 31, 2012 at 9:11 am #

    Steve: What I’m wondering is exactly what the “host” of this site is getting out of all this?

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/visitor-guide/

  151. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 31, 2012 at 9:13 am #

    Guess again.

    Geir Smith: Pravda alone is the offical (sic) Communist paper that’s passed onto the web.

  152. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 31, 2012 at 9:20 am #

    I got a $10.10 Amazon.com gift card. Didn’t you read the article?

    Steve: What I’m wondering is exactly what the “host” of this site is getting out of all this?

  153. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 31, 2012 at 9:36 am #

    Your site, however, is not funny.

    Just so you can see what a specific criticism looks like, I have selected your article:
    Major Discovery … In The Ink!

    You have a close-up image of a signature from Barack Obama long-form birth certificate. You note that one part of the signature is solid and dark, and that the other is fuzzy, pixelated and gray.

    Then, having no knowledge of what you are looking at, make the unsupported conclusion that part of the signature is not “permanent ink.” Did I get that right?

    The problem with your analysis is twofold. First, if you do the same exercise with the higher-resolution Associated Press scans of the certificate, you don’t see this two-part signature. You only see it in the PDF version. Therefore, what you see must be an artifact of the PDF creation process rather than something inherent in the original, and indeed it is.

    PDF optimization breaks the image into regions and stores them in different ways. The background layer is stored as a color image, and most of the foreground is stored as a bitmap black and white image. The signature is split between the layers. The background, when you zoom in beyond the resolution of the document results in interpolation by the display engine and a gray pixelated appearance. The part in the black and white layer stays black.

    I know this because I scanned my own birth certificate, which I of course know is genuine, and a part of one of the signatures was also split between the foreground and background layers.

    Your article is a fallacy, making a curiosity that you’re not competent to explain into a mark of fraud.

    This kind of ignorance and false conclusions characterizes all of the birther objections to the Obama long form. Smarter people know this and this is why every mainstream news article on the Arpaio investigation describes his results as long-debunked.

    For a detailed discussion, buy a copy of Mr. Woodman’s book from the Recommended Books widget on the right side of this page.

    Steve: This site, is an interesting conglomeration of fictional but certifiable b.s. It does have some entertainment value though.

  154. avatar
    Geir Smith March 31, 2012 at 9:40 am #

    Romo said to Sheriff Joe to ask the FBI but Romo’s not ordering Joe around.

    Romo’s not Joe’s boss; If he was he’d pay Joe Arpaio and Arpaio’s doing this this research by footing the bill himself.

    So he’ll not go to the FBI; he’ll do what he decides seeing Romo’s not paying him and IS NOT HIS BOSS.

    Geir Smith:
    Tell me if it’s my impression but I don’t think you actually want Obama to answer any questions and is avoiding.

  155. avatar
    J. Potter March 31, 2012 at 10:01 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Just so you can see what a specific criticism looks like, I have selected your article:
    Major Discovery … In The Ink!

    Thanks, Doc, for highlighting that hysterical misrepresentation. Can someone really be so silly as to assert that “permanent black ink” will always be pure black when digitized? This is magical thinking. Surely an attempt at intentional deception.

  156. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 31, 2012 at 10:41 am #

    I left the following comment at Steve’s blog:

    What you are seeing in the long form signature is a normal artifact of PDF optimization. The optimizer splits the document into regions. The background region is stored in this case as a compressed color image, while much of the form and typing is in a black and white image. This separation is why some parts of the text appear gray (such as the last digit of the certificate number, part of the signature and the letter “R” in “BARACK.”) and why you see a halo where the two regions meet.

    When you zoom in beyond the documents resolution the PDF display engine works differently on B&W v. color. That’s why you see gray and pixelation in the color region. while the B&W part stays 100% black.

    You can see this for yourself if you have a copy of Adobe Acrobat Standard and a scanner. I scanned my own birth certificate, and selected “Optimize scanned PDF” from the Document menu. My scanned birth certificate shows the same anomalies you see in the Obama form including part of a signature stored as a colored image and part as B&W.

    To suggest that a forger used two kinds of ink, or that someone making a digital fabrication would use different techniques for different parts of a signature is patently absurd.

    Real life is messy. Just because you don’t understand something doesn’t mean there’s a world-controlling conspiracy out to destroy everything you hold dear.

    Let’s see if he lets it appear!

    Steve: This site, is an interesting conglomeration of fictional but certifiable b.s. It does have some entertainment value though.

  157. avatar
    Jim March 31, 2012 at 10:42 am #

    Geir Smith:
    Romo said to Sheriff Joe to ask the FBI but Romo’s not ordering Joe around.

    Romo’s not Joe’s boss; If he was he’d pay Joe Arpaio and Arpaio’s doing this this research by footing the bill himself.

    So he’ll not go to the FBI; he’ll do what he decides seeing Romo’s not paying him and IS NOT HIS BOSS.

    So, if the good Sheriff has evidence of a Federal Crime and doesn’t report it, isn’t he covering up a crime? Of course, if the sheriff knows he has no evidence of a crime, he shouldn’t report it. So, I’ll agree with you, he won’t be going to the FBI because he has no evidence of a crime.

  158. avatar
    Scientist March 31, 2012 at 10:45 am #

    Geir Smith: Romo said to Sheriff Joe to ask the FBI but Romo’s not ordering Joe around.Romo’s not Joe’s boss; If he was he’d pay Joe Arpaio and Arpaio’s doing this this research by footing the bill himself.So he’ll not go to the FBI; he’ll do what he decides seeing Romo’s not paying him and IS NOT HIS BOSS.

    Quite correct, Romo isn’t Arpaio’s boss. But Arpaio isn’t Romo’s. So you have a Mexican standoff. Too bad Joe has been so mean to so many Mexicans for so long. Given the 2 parties, maybe we’ll call it an Italian standoff. Regardless, who wins? The guy with the document. Who is that? Not Joe.

  159. avatar
    Scientist March 31, 2012 at 11:07 am #

    By the way birthers, consider the following:

    Where did Arpaio get the document he analyzed?
    From a birther.
    That’s as far as Joe can vouch for the chain of custody.
    So, legally speaking, any forgery Joe uncovered would be a BIRTHER forgery until Joe could prove otherwise, which he can’t.

    Have a nice day

  160. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 31, 2012 at 11:27 am #

    Geir Smith: They’re blackmailing the black man.

    In public…for everyone to see? That’s an interesting new way to do it.

  161. avatar
    Majority Will March 31, 2012 at 11:35 am #

    “Romo’s not Joe’s boss; If he was he’d pay Joe Arpaio and Arpaio’s doing this this research by footing the bill himself.”

    So Arpaio’s idiotic smear campaign is taxpayer funded? Good to know.

  162. avatar
    Geir Smith March 31, 2012 at 12:19 pm #

    Jim: So, if the good Sheriff has evidence of a Federal Crime and doesn’t report it, isn’t he covering up a crime?Of course, if the sheriff knows he has no evidence of a crime, he shouldn’t report it.So, I’ll agree with you, he won’t be going to the FBI because he has no evidence of a crime.

    Sheriff Joe says the two crimes were committed in Maricopa County not Federally.

  163. avatar
    misha March 31, 2012 at 12:40 pm #

    Steve: “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” and “The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one.”

    Since you like quoting Adolf Schicklgruber, here are a few more:
    - “Universal education is the most corroding and disintegrating poison that liberalism has ever invented for its own destruction.”
    Sounds just like conservatives today.
    - “Who says I am not under the special protection of God?”
    - “As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.”
    - “I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.”

    I went to your website, and saw your photographs of domestic violence. Let me tell you, the domestic violence statistics in Israel are nothing to write home about. My wife is from Kaohsiung, and I lived there for 6 months. The domestic violence figures in that city alone, are off the chart, especially murder-suicides.

    One time I was in the ER with a severe asthma attack. A woman was brought in, who was beaten up by her boyfriend. She had two black eyes, and was covered with bruises.

    None are Muslim. It’s culture, not religion. Also, you consider Islam to be a scourge. Jews were far better off in the Ottoman Empire, than in Europe. They did not live in fear.

    Learn history, before you smear with a brush.

  164. avatar
    y_p_w March 31, 2012 at 2:23 pm #

    Geir Smith: Pravda alone is the offical Communist paper that’s passed onto the web. Also, Voice Of Russia’s (ex-Radio Moscow) given an interview to Arpaio, and also Czech Republic’s Neviditelný pes (The Invisible Dog), a popular news website from Prague.

    Pravda.ru is an independent website that has no official link to the original Pravda or the Communist Party. There is no unbroken link to the original Pravda that was the official newspaper of the Soviet Communist Party.

    However, there is a new newpaper using the “Pravda” name that is the official publication of the Russian Communist Party, but they’ve got their own website.

    http://www.gazeta-pravda.ru

  165. avatar
    J. Potter March 31, 2012 at 2:39 pm #

    Majority Will:
    “Romo’s not Joe’s boss; If he was he’d pay Joe Arpaio and Arpaio’s doing this this research by footing the bill himself.”

    So Arpaio’s idiotic smear campaign is taxpayer funded? Good to know.

    Of course it is! Who pays Joe? The contradiction he has set up is hysterical. He claims its a non-profit group acting independently. If so, how can it be ‘official’? If unofficial, why should he expect anyone to react to his statements and demands as head of the “Posse” as if he is acting in his capacity as Sheriff? When representing the Posse, is he doing so as Sheriff (recompensed by taxes, a figure with authority), or not (as a citizen on his spare time)?

    How is it possible for a Sheriff to be involved in a public ‘unofficial’ investigation, and why should it be ‘unofficial’ yet public, unless shady or groundless? I can see working something through backchannels and going public once a case has come together, but this has been a media circus from the start.

    What a farce.

  166. avatar
    Montana March 31, 2012 at 2:43 pm #

    Mitt Romney’s Mexican father, hmmmmm…….Are the simple minded “BIRTHERS”, going to ask Romney for his birth certificate? We all know this was never about a birth certificate, if it was then these same people would be asking Romney for his. It’s about small minded people who hate African Americans and do not have the brains to review a President’s policy so they make something up.

    Lets be clear none of these dullards have won a case in the “U.S. Courts”, maybe in their simple minds (if they have any) but not in our “U.S. Courts”, so unless Birthers/ teabaggers, whatever you want to be called, win a court case, we will continue to see as dullards, liars or racist or maybe all three. Deal with that baby!

  167. avatar
    Scientist March 31, 2012 at 2:49 pm #

    J. Potter: Of course it is! Who pays Joe? The contradiction he has set up is hysterical. He claims its a non-profit group acting independently. If so, how can it be official’? If unofficial, why should he expect anyone to react to his statements and demands as head of the “Posse” as if he is acting in his capacity as Sheriff? When representing the Posse, is he doing so as Sheriff (recompensed by taxes, a figure with authority), or not (as a citizen on his spare time)?

    I wonder what would happen if the President decided to “investigate” Arpaio strictly on his off hours as a private citizen of course?

  168. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 31, 2012 at 3:01 pm #

    Geir Smith: Sheriff Joe says the two crimes were committed in Maricopa County not Federally.

    Actually I don’t think that’s exactly what he said. But, for the sake of discussion, let’s say he did:

    1 – Exactly what crime was committed in Maricopa County as it regards Obama’s birth certificate?

    2 – Exactly what crime was committed in Maricopa County as it regards Obama’s draft registration card?

    Your answers, sir?

  169. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 31, 2012 at 3:25 pm #

    Geir Smith: They’re blackmailing the black man.

    Geir,

    Would that be the black man that you think is satan? Or is he the anti-christ? It’s hard to tell from your September 2010 post in which you proclaim yourself “the only honest man in the world fighting the Antichrist Obama.”

    http://beforeitsnews.com/story/175/669/I,_Geir_Smith,_am_the_only_honest_person_in_the_world_fighting_the_Antichrist_Obama..html

  170. avatar
    J. Potter March 31, 2012 at 3:29 pm #

    Scientist: I wonder what would happen if the President decided to “investigate” Arpaio strictly on his off hours as a private citizen of course?

    He could definitely school him in a game of “H-O-R-S-E” ;)

  171. avatar
    G March 31, 2012 at 4:12 pm #

    Yeah and this new footage of Arpaio telling everyone they are not the boss of him really showed what he is bringing to this fight:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFt46AfQysc

    Geir Smith: Romo said to Sheriff Joe to ask the FBI but Romo’s not ordering Joe around.Romo’s not Joe’s boss; If he was he’d pay Joe Arpaio and Arpaio’s doing this this research by footing the bill himself.So he’ll not go to the FBI; he’ll do what he decides seeing Romo’s not paying him and IS NOT HIS BOSS.

  172. avatar
    G March 31, 2012 at 4:16 pm #

    If “crimes” were committed, shouldn’t Sherriff Joe being issuing an arrest warrant?

    Yeah…good luck with that…

    Geir Smith: Sheriff Joe says the two crimes were committed in Maricopa County not Federally.

  173. avatar
    insomnia March 31, 2012 at 4:32 pm #

    I always think it’s funny when people call Obama the Anti-Christ.

    According to the book of Revelations, the Anti-Christ only comes to power AFTER the Rapture.

    Does that mean that all these good, birthin, christian folk MISSED the Rapture??

    CarlOrcas: Geir,

    Would that be the black man that you think is satan? Or is he the anti-christ? It’s hard to tell from your September 2010 post in which you proclaim yourself “the only honest man in the world fighting the Antichrist Obama.”

    http://beforeitsnews.com/story/175/669/I,_Geir_Smith,_am_the_only_honest_person_in_the_world_fighting_the_Antichrist_Obama..html

  174. avatar
    y_p_w March 31, 2012 at 4:36 pm #

    CarlOrcas: 1 – Exactly what crime was committed in Maricopa County as it regards Obama’s birth certificate?

    2 – Exactly what crime was committed in Maricopa County as it regards Obama’s draft registration card?

    1) Could the flight path of a plane transportIng Judith Corley from Honolulu to D.C. have been over Maricopa County?

    2) Coult the flight path of the plant transporting the mail from Honolulu to the SSS office have been over Maricopa County?

    That’s all I can think of – a tenuous link that perhaps these documents had been transported over Maricopa County airspace, and thus it became his problem. Of course, the enforcement of laws in the air is a tricky subject. It’s a mix of federal laws, plus whatever is the law in the states of departure and arrival.

  175. avatar
    justlw March 31, 2012 at 5:10 pm #

    insomnia: I always think it’s funny when people call Obama the Anti-Christ.

    According to the book of Revelations, the Anti-Christ only comes to power AFTER the Rapture.

    Does that mean that all these good, birthin, christian folk MISSED the Rapture??

    Ha!

    Fred Davis (he of the Carly Fiorina “Demon Sheep” / Pete Hoekstra “China Love You Very Long Time” ads) did this ad for McCain in 2008. Chock full of “Left Behind” dog whistles.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mopkn0lPzM8

  176. avatar
    J. Potter March 31, 2012 at 5:39 pm #

    insomnia:
    I always think it’s funny when people call Obama the Anti-Christ.

    According to the book of Revelations, the Anti-Christ only comes to power AFTER the Rapture.

    Does that mean that all these good, birthin, christian folk MISSED the Rapture??

    Nitpickin’ time!

    Revelations doesn’t mention a rapture, at least not as imagined in American popular Millenialist Christianity. The only reference is in 1st Thessalonians 4, saying that first the dead in Christ shall rise, and then that those who are alive and remain will rise to meet in the air.

    Once upon a time, there were fierce debates about whether the rapture would occur pre- or post-Tribulation (a collective term for all the wrath-pouring and horseman-raging described in Revelations). Christ doesn’t descend to Earth until the Final Battle, implying the believers get to Tribulate along with everyone else. The idea that the Tribulation serves to winnow out the true believers appeals to the old testament types.

    Naturally, the pre-Tribs won … they’re selling the more attractive product!

    Not that I’m saying popular opinion has any influence on the meaning of God’s Word.

    Nor should any parallels between the development of pop religion and say … birtherism be construed as anything other than coincidence.

    I have a cough today.

    Back to regular programming! :D

  177. avatar
    J. Potter March 31, 2012 at 5:40 pm #

    Whoops, edit: In Revelations, Christ doesn’t descend to Earth until the Final Battle

  178. avatar
    Majority Will March 31, 2012 at 5:42 pm #

    J. Potter: Naturally, the pre-Tribs won … they’re selling the more attractive product!

    The true trouble with Tribbles?

  179. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 31, 2012 at 5:49 pm #

    The word “antichrist” doesn’t appear in Revelations.

    J. Potter: Whoops, edit: In Revelations, Christ doesn’t descend to Earth until the Final Battle

  180. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 31, 2012 at 5:58 pm #

    y_p_w: That’s all I can think of – a tenuous link that perhaps these documents had been transported over Maricopa County airspace, and thus it became his problem. Of course, the enforcement of laws in the air is a tricky subject. It’s a mix of federal laws, plus whatever is the law in the states of departure and arrival.

    Don’t get Arpaio thinking about extending his jurisdiction above ground. Next he’ll want ballistic missiles…..a space posse. Where will it end?

  181. avatar
    J. Potter March 31, 2012 at 5:58 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    The word “antichrist” doesn’t appear in Revelations.

    Indeed, only in John’s epistles, describing people who denying Christ’s divinity. Even used as an adjective.

  182. avatar
    J. Potter March 31, 2012 at 6:00 pm #

    CarlOrcas: a space posse.

    :D

    Makes me think of Jason X for some reason.

  183. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 31, 2012 at 6:02 pm #

    insomnia: I always think it’s funny when people call Obama the Anti-Christ.

    All I can tell you is that I sent the link to Geir’s musings to my wife and after she started reading it she started laughing out loud….very loud. Then? The blue screen of death. Her computer crashed.

    I’m not saying Obama has possessed her machine and is punishing her for not believing but you really have to wonder.

  184. avatar
    insomnia March 31, 2012 at 6:05 pm #

    True – but most “end time’s” folks think that “The Beast” mentioned in Revelations is the Anti-Christ.

    According to my relatives the “Left Behind” series tells us that the Beast IS also the Anti-Christ. (I have two Uncles who really believe the Left Behind series to be absolutely true – they are always telling me how the world will end.) So for the end-times people in my family – Beast = Anti-Christ.

    Telling them what the Bible actually says only sets them off trying to “prove” you wrong.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    The word “antichrist” doesn’t appear in Revelations.

  185. avatar
    Majority Will March 31, 2012 at 6:08 pm #

    insomnia: Telling them what the Bible actually says only sets them off trying to “prove” you wrong.

    That sounds familiar.

  186. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 31, 2012 at 6:08 pm #

    Going back to the March 1 Press Conference, it appears that Sheriff Joe is essentially admitting that there was no crime committed in Maricopa County. Here’s what he said:

    We have to further this investigation to determine who, where, when, and why these documents were, we feel, forged.
    My challenge is: where to take these findings? I’m an ex-federal guy, 30 years as a top federal law enforcement official. I know a little about the federal government. What other governmental entities had jurisdiction over this matter? I have a little concern with that.

    I’m considering asking the Hawaii authorities to look into this, but, as my investigators and I feel, well they really do it? Will they do an independent investigation? Fair, honest, professional — I don’t know. So where do I go next? Well, we have a, the United States Congress. Do I ask for a Congressional investigation, bipartisan? We’ll have to decide where to go.

    There are two alleged crimes: forgery and fraud. Those responsible, whoever they are, should be bright to justice. I don’t care who they are, and I’m being criticized for enforcing the law on felonies. There’s something wrong.

    CarlOrcas: Actually I don’t think that’s exactly what he said. But, for the sake of discussion, let’s say he did:

    1 – Exactly what crime was committed in Maricopa County as it regards Obama’s birth certificate?

    2 – Exactly what crime was committed in Maricopa County as it regards Obama’s draft registration card?

    Your answers, sir?

  187. avatar
    aarrgghh March 31, 2012 at 6:13 pm #

    Steve: “The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one.” Adolf Hitler

    birfers are obviously jealous that their big lies haven’t made victims of the great masses.

    remember when fogbow’s foggy suckered professional seditionist sharon rondeau of the post & email into lauding a quote from mein kampf?

    ah, good times …

  188. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 31, 2012 at 6:13 pm #

    Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. (1 John 2:18)

    So the antichrists came about 2,000 years ago. The “beast” in Revelation is Nero.

    insomnia: Beast = Anti-Christ.

  189. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 31, 2012 at 6:19 pm #

    Did you note the comment from “checker?”

    “Bravo, Fred. I agree with Sharon. God is on our side. Have I read
    your flowery prose somewhere before, Fred? It sounds familiar but I
    cannot put my finger on it.”

    Did he reveal more than he intended?

    aarrgghh: remember when fogbow’s foggy suckered professional seditionist sharon rondeau of the post & email into lauding a quote from mein kampf?

  190. avatar
    Geir Smith March 31, 2012 at 6:35 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Actually I don’t think that’s exactly what he said. But, for the sake of discussion, let’s say he did:

    1 – Exactly what crime was committed in Maricopa County as it regards Obama’s birth certificate?

    2 – Exactly what crime was committed in Maricopa County as it regards Obama’s draft registration card?

    Your answers, sir?

    Well I think you’re too stupid and morally ugly to talk about that, don’t you? Just sayin’ Joe Arpaio’s words are all over the news and need no repeating do they?

  191. avatar
    Geir Smith March 31, 2012 at 6:37 pm #

    y_p_w: Pravda.ru is an independent website that has no official link to the original Pravda or the Communist Party.There is no unbroken link to the original Pravda that was the official newspaper of the Soviet Communist Party.

    However, there is a new newpaper using the “Pravda” name that is the official publication of the Russian Communist Party, but they’ve got their own website.

    http://www.gazeta-pravda.ru

    Check Wikipedia. It says the old Pravda reporters gathered and created the online Pravda. Don’t you guys even study at all?

  192. avatar
    Geir Smith March 31, 2012 at 6:40 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Geir,

    Would that be the black man that you think is satan? Or is he the anti-christ? It’s hard to tell from your September 2010 post in which you proclaim yourself “the only honest man in the world fighting the Antichrist Obama.”

    http://beforeitsnews.com/story/175/669/I,_Geir_Smith,_am_the_only_honest_person_in_the_world_fighting_the_Antichrist_Obama..html

    I’m the only honest person in the world fighting the Antichrist Obama.

  193. avatar
    Geir Smith March 31, 2012 at 6:42 pm #

    insomnia:
    I always think it’s funny when people call Obama the Anti-Christ.

    According to the book of Revelations, the Anti-Christ only comes to power AFTER the Rapture.

    Does that mean that all these good, birthin, christian folk MISSED the Rapture??

    Obama got into power in 2008 and that was when the battle was lost.

  194. avatar
    Geir Smith March 31, 2012 at 6:47 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: So the antichrists came about 2,000 years ago. The “beast” in Revelation is Nero.

    The Antichrist is not Nero.
    Obama’s marked by 666.
    Refuse his money or lose.

  195. avatar
    Geir Smith March 31, 2012 at 6:50 pm #

    Thanks Carl for sending the article I made where one sees the Chicago Tribune scans with 666 on Obama’s victory-day.

    I see this restless fretting from you Obots, is the full moon or you’re having your menstruations?

    Joe Arpaio’s going to hammer Obama so bad and you all know it you demonics working for Satan (Antichrist and Satan are the same thing say some among the Christian groups.)

  196. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 31, 2012 at 6:51 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Going back to the March 1 Press Conference, it appears that Sheriff Joe is essentially admitting that there was no crime committed in Maricopa County

    Yes, in his weasely way that’s exactly what he is saying. We have to investigate “further” Have to figure out where to take these “findings”. I’m “considering” asking Hawaiian authorities……………

    It is all, as you so eloquently put it in another thread, bullshit.

    And then there’s the martyrdom: I’m just trying to enforce the law.

    This is all classic Arpaio.

  197. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 31, 2012 at 7:40 pm #

    Sure he is. Read Bruce Metzger’s book.

    Geir Smith: The Antichrist is not Nero.

  198. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 31, 2012 at 7:41 pm #

    You’re not supposed to know about that until tomorrow. (This is downright scary.) Do you know somebody? I gotta make some calls. Damn.

    Geir Smith: Refuse his money or lose.

  199. avatar
    Thomas Brown March 31, 2012 at 7:50 pm #

    Montana:

    Lets be clear none of these dullards have won a case in the “U.S. Courts”, maybe in their simple minds (if they have any) but not in our “U.S. Courts”, so unless Birthers/ teabaggers, whatever you want to be called, win a court case, we will continue to see as dullards, liars or racist or maybe all three. Deal with that baby!

    Dullards and Liars and Racists… Oh my!
    Dullards and Liars and Racists… Oh my!

    Toto, I think we may be in Birfistan…

  200. avatar
    Majority Will March 31, 2012 at 7:50 pm #

    Geir Smith: Obama’s marked by 666.

    I thought it was 999.

  201. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 31, 2012 at 8:00 pm #

    Geir Smith: Obama got into power in 2008 and that was when the battle was lost.

    Obama wasn’t sworn in as President until 2009.

  202. avatar
    J. Potter March 31, 2012 at 8:04 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Sure he is. Read Bruce Metzger’s book.

    Why do people who insist on literalism also insists on finding explanation for the symbolic? I’d love to hear Geir explain why Obama is more likely John’s Beast / False Porphet than was Nero …. or why he can’t understand that it’s an allegory, an age-old tale useful for painting The Other with.

    If scripture is literal, then the stars will fall (not ICBMs) and the Beast will be .. a beast.

    Yeah, I know, the chaos is skeery.

  203. avatar
    Thomas Brown March 31, 2012 at 8:07 pm #

    Geir Smith:

    Joe Arpaio’s going to hammer Obama so bad and you all know it you demonics working for Satan (Antichrist and Satan are the same thing say some among the Christian groups.)

    Thanks for the laugh, Geir. “Pink Panties” Arpaio isn’t going to do squat. You a bettin’ man, Geir? Because I will wager $1000, right here in public, that by Dec. 31st 2012, at midnight, nobody will have been indicted for forging BHO’s documents, the documents will not have been proven to be bogus, and Obama will have been on the ballots in all 50 states.
    Does that sound like we “know” Arpaio is going to “hammer” our fine President to you, pal?

    Your pathetic ravings are more fun than the funny pages.

  204. avatar
    justlw March 31, 2012 at 8:09 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Geir Smith: Obama got into power in 2008 and that was when the battle was lost.

    Obama wasn’t sworn in as President until 2009.

    Ah, but he got into power in 2008 — how else would he have been able to subvert the SSS prior to his election?

    Back on topic — you’re welcome!

  205. avatar
    nbc March 31, 2012 at 8:12 pm #

    Geir Smith: Joe Arpaio’s going to hammer Obama so bad and you all know it you demonics working for Satan (Antichrist and Satan are the same thing say some among the Christian groups.)

    Funny thing with that. A little voice has been telling me that Arpaio will never press any charges now that the media is showing no interest to pursue his foolish endeavors.

    Funny how the ‘Antichrist’ has such control over you, is it not?…

  206. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 31, 2012 at 8:17 pm #

    Geir Smith: Thanks Carl for sending the article I made where one sees the Chicago Tribune scans with 666 on Obama’s victory-day.

    Must have missed that one, Geir. The newspaper on you website is from Thursday, November 6th. Obama’s “victor-day” occurred two days earlier…..on election day, November 4th….a Tuesday. Oops.

    Geir Smith: I see this restless fretting from you Obots, is the full moon or you’re having your menstruations?

    Neither. But I do know when Obama was elected.

    Geir Smith: Joe Arpaio’s going to hammer Obama so bad and you all know it you demonics working for Satan (Antichrist and Satan are the same thing say some among the Christian groups.)

    The only thing Arpaio is going to hammer is his reputation….or what’s left of it.

    As far as Satan and the antichrist are concerned I have it on good authority that Bill Gates is both. Any person who has dealt with Windows since 1985 can testify to that.

  207. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 31, 2012 at 8:21 pm #

    justlw: Ah, but he got into power in 2008 — how else would he have been able to subvert the SSS prior to his election?

    But, but……if he’s really Satan hasn’t he always been in power??????

  208. avatar
    misha March 31, 2012 at 8:33 pm #

    Geir Smith: Obama’s marked by 666.

    If Obama were Jewish, 666 would be marked down to 495.

  209. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 31, 2012 at 8:39 pm #

    Geir Smith: I’m the only honest person in the world fighting the Antichrist Obama.

    And the most modest too.

  210. avatar
    misha March 31, 2012 at 8:43 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Geir…Or is he the anti-christ? It’s hard to tell from your September 2010 post in which you proclaim yourself “the only honest man in the world fighting the Antichrist Obama.”

    I’m sorry, but it is physically impossible for Obama to be the anti-Christ. He’s not Jewish, although his wife may have a Jewish ancestor.

    Falwell – “The anti-Christ is walking among us in the shape of a male Jew.”
    Hagee – “The anti-Christ will be Jewish, as was Karl Marx, as was Adolf H_____” [name omitted to avoid moderation].

  211. avatar
    G March 31, 2012 at 8:50 pm #

    ;) H/T to both of you for entertaining me with those references! 8)

    Majority Will: The true trouble with Tribbles?

    J. Potter: Makes me think of Jason X for some reason.

  212. avatar
    J. Potter March 31, 2012 at 8:50 pm #

    Geir Smith: I’m the only honest person in the world fighting the Antichrist Obama.

    How are you call all other birthers dishonest! No honor among brain-thieves anymore?

    Or, is “Antichrist Obama” a code name for a punk band? an extremely rare skin fungus?

    No, no, no, I got it. You do mean Obama, and are admitting that honest people don’t birth. But since you are birthing—dabbling in untruths—calling yourself honest is just another lie. Got it. Wow, a con calling himself honest. What a first. No one will see through that.

    If all rational types think Obama is The Messiah, why haven’t we singled out an AntiObamaChrist?

  213. avatar
    Northland10 March 31, 2012 at 8:52 pm #

    Geir Smith: I’m the only honest person in the world fighting the Antichrist Obama.

    I thought It was supposed to be Nero, a pope or 20, then it was the Kaiser, Hitler, Lincoln, communists (you pick’em), Kennedy, Khomeini, Hussein, Clinton, Hussein, I think Reagan got a shot, Bin Laden, and so on. It is so hard to keep up. There have been more Anticrists than Imelda Marcos’ shoes.

    (to ensure inclusiveness, and to make sure Misha and others are not left out, I am relatively certain that some “fundy” has named a Jewish leftist as the Anticrist).

  214. avatar
    G March 31, 2012 at 8:53 pm #

    That was the most likely conclusion we came to in college too. I had an entire Honors course that focused on mainly studying that particular Bible story, from various perspectives. The evidence for it being a Nero reference is extremely compelling.

    Dr. Conspiracy: So the antichrists came about 2,000 years ago. The “beast” in Revelation is Nero.

  215. avatar
    G March 31, 2012 at 8:56 pm #

    OK, I’m flagging this particular response for Doc C’s attention as a clear violation of posting policy here.

    The portion in bold by Geir Smith was an unjustified, senseless and ugly personal attack and had no causitive association to what CarlOrcas had said.

    Geir Smith: CarlOrcas: Actually I don’t think that’s exactly what he said. But, for the sake of discussion, let’s say he did:
    1 – Exactly what crime was committed in Maricopa County as it regards Obama’s birth certificate?
    2 – Exactly what crime was committed in Maricopa County as it regards Obama’s draft registration card?
    Your answers, sir?

    Well I think you’re too stupid and morally ugly to talk about that, don’t you? Just sayin’ Joe Arpaio’s words are all over the news and need no repeating do they?

  216. avatar
    G March 31, 2012 at 8:58 pm #

    You truly are a hero in your own mind…

    …Outside of that…eh, not so much…

    Geir Smith: I’m the only honest person in the world fighting the Antichrist Obama.

  217. avatar
    Rickey March 31, 2012 at 9:02 pm #

    Steve:

    What I’m wondering is exactly what the “host” of this site is getting out of all this?

    Haven’t you heard? We’re all living high on the hog with the checks we receive each month from Soros. My next one should be in my mailbox on Monday.

  218. avatar
    nbc March 31, 2012 at 9:03 pm #

    Geir Smith: I’m the only honest person in the world fighting the Antichrist Obama.

    ROTFL and doing such a poor job… Poor Geir does not realize that he is being manipulated by the real anti-Christ.

  219. avatar
    misha March 31, 2012 at 9:06 pm #

    Rickey: We’re all living high on the hog with the checks we receive each month from Soros. My next one should be in my mailbox on Monday.

    I’m on direct deposit.

  220. avatar
    nbc March 31, 2012 at 9:07 pm #

    Geir Smith: Sheriff Joe says the two crimes were committed in Maricopa County not Federally.

    Oh well then it has nothing to do with the Cold Posse investigation…

  221. avatar
    G March 31, 2012 at 9:08 pm #

    *rolls eyes* You mean the story you keep harping on about, about some obscure 3-digit lotto win that didn’t even happen on the same say as the 2008 Presidential Election?

    You do realize that three identical digits coming up in a three digit lotto drawing is not that hard to achieve and happens fairly frequently…

    Geir Smith:
    Thanks Carl for sending the article I made where one sees the Chicago Tribune scans with 666 on Obama’s victory-day.

    Again, I’m FLAGging you for crossing the line of making uncalled for sick statements in bad taste.

    Geir Smith:
    I see this restless fretting from you Obots, is the full moon or you’re having your menstruations?

    *rolls eyes* Yeah, good luck with that. Wake me from your hollow idle threats once Joe actually does something instead of just issue meaningless press conferences.

    When law enforcement have REAL cases, they go to a DA or similar body and attempt to pursue a prosecution. Haven’t seen your “hero” actually do anything about these “concerns” yet except continually string you gullible folks along for months…

    Geir Smith:
    Joe Arpaio’s going to hammer Obama so bad and you all know it you demonics working for Satan (Antichrist and Satan are the same thing say some among the Christian groups.)

  222. avatar
    misha March 31, 2012 at 9:13 pm #

    Geir Smith: you all know it you demonics working for Satan (Antichrist and Satan are the same thing say some among the Christian groups.)

    I’m Jewish. We have the Markdown King.

  223. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 31, 2012 at 9:18 pm #

    misha: I’m sorry, but it is physically impossible for Obama to be the anti-Christ. He’s not Jewish,

    I have a cat that I suspect is the anti-christ.

  224. avatar
    Rickey March 31, 2012 at 9:20 pm #

    Geir Smith:
    Thanks Carl for sending the article I made where one sees the Chicago Tribune scans with 666 on Obama’s victory-day.

    Obama was elected on November 4, which was his “victory-day.”

    One of the winning Pick 3 numbers in Illinois was 666 on November 5. Of course, 666 also was a winning Pick 3 number in Illinois on 1/16/08, 3/22/08 and 10/23/08.

    Nothing out of the ordinary there. The odds of any particular three digits coming up are 999-1. Illinois has two Pick 3 lotteries each day, for a total of 732 lotteries in a leap year. This means that in any given year there is an excellent chance that 666 will be the winner at least once.

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/lottery.asp

  225. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 31, 2012 at 9:26 pm #

    G: OK, I’m flagging this particular response for Doc C’s attention as a clear violation of posting policy here.

    I appreciate your concern but this fellow is such caricature it’s hard to take him seriously…..especially if you’ve read his website.

    I’ve been dealing with this stuff since the mid-1980′s on the old Compuserve Forum system and this guy is tame stuff compared to some of the wackos we used to get there on a couple of the forums.

  226. avatar
    Thomas Brown March 31, 2012 at 9:45 pm #

    CarlOrcas: I appreciate your concern but this fellow is such caricature it’s hard to take him seriously…..especially if you’ve read his website.

    I’ve been dealing with this stuff since the mid-1980′s on the old Compuserve Forum system and this guy is tame stuff compared to some of the wackos we used to get there on a couple of the forums.

    It does bring a smile to my face, though, to imagine how Geir will howl and sizzle when the Big Guy punishes him for Bearing False Witness.

    Or so I hear.

  227. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 31, 2012 at 10:22 pm #

    Thomas Brown: It does bring a smile to my face, though, to imagine how Geir will howl and sizzle when the Big Guy punishes him for Bearing False Witness.
    Or so I hear.

    More interesting would be there to watch him decide whether he’s going to go forward as a Christian or a Buddhist. Reincarnation can be a bitch.

  228. avatar
    Arthur March 31, 2012 at 10:40 pm #

    CarlOrcas: More interesting would be there to watch him decide whether he’s going to go forward as a Christian or a Buddhist. Reincarnation can be a bitch

    Infedels! Gear Smith is BOTH master Xian and deep Budhist thinking contemplative reincarnation of the Buddha soul. On the bottom half, the cross (CROSS–get it!?) legged, Gautama Sudhodanna prevails in Geer’s dan-tien chakra of the sacred sexual energy healing stones. Sixth level yellow. But upon the top is the beneleovent sacred heart of Jesus, miracle healing water of Christ. Ger is the revealation of Jesus of the 2nd helping of God. All praice to second comings, and pray thjat Gar comes often. May his hand serve him well.

  229. avatar
    Thomas Brown March 31, 2012 at 11:38 pm #

    Arthur: Infedels! Gear Smith is BOTH master Xian and deep Budhist thinking contemplative reincarnation of the Buddha soul… But upon the top is the beneleovent sacred heart of Jesus, miracle healing water of Christ… All praice to second comings, and pray thjat Gar comes often. May his hand serve him well.

    Nicely played.

  230. avatar
    Keith April 1, 2012 at 12:19 am #

    Geir Smith: The Antichrist is not Nero.
    Obama’s marked by 666.
    Refuse his money or lose.

    The end of days begins on the 14th of March 2015 at 9:26 in the morning.

    But only in America.

    This is not a ‘prediction’. It is a law of nature, and mathematically precise to seven decimal places .

    True believers should begin stocking up on pie now.

  231. avatar
    G April 1, 2012 at 1:02 am #

    ;) Clever… 8)

    Keith: The end of days begins on the 14th of March 2015 at 9:26 in the morning.But only in America.This is not a prediction’. It is a law of nature, and mathematically precise to seven decimal places .True believers should begin stocking up on pie now.

  232. avatar
    SluggoJD April 1, 2012 at 1:20 am #

    Geir Smith: Obama got into power in 2008 and that was when the battle was lost.

    So kill yourself already, you racist POS. And Obama was sworn in, in 2009.

  233. avatar
    J. Potter April 1, 2012 at 1:57 am #

    misha: I’m on direct deposit.

    Oh yeah? Mine are bounced directly into the Obama PAC. How’s that for being in the tank? :D

  234. avatar
    misha April 1, 2012 at 2:06 am #

    Arthur: Gear Smith is BOTH master Xian and deep Budhist thinking contemplative reincarnation of the Buddha soul. On the bottom half…

    Speaking of bottom half, there is this story about Groucho Marx: Groucho wanted his daughter to be able to enjoy a club with her friend. When told by a club administrator that the club was indeed restricted, Groucho supposedly said, “Well, she’s only half Jewish; can she go in the pool up to her waist?”

  235. avatar
    Geir Smith April 1, 2012 at 10:16 am #

    J. Potter: How are you call all other birthers dishonest! No honor among brain-thieves anymore?

    Or, is “Antichrist Obama” a code name for a punk band? an extremely rare skin fungus?

    No, no, no, I got it. You do mean Obama, and are admitting that honest people don’t birth. But since you are birthing—dabbling in untruths—calling yourself honest is just another lie. Got it. Wow, a con calling himself honest. What a first. No one will see through that.

    If all rational types think Obama is The Messiah, why haven’t we singled out an AntiObamaChrist?

    Obama is not, repeat, NOT the Messiah.

  236. avatar
    Geir Smith April 1, 2012 at 10:42 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Sure he is. Read Bruce Metzger’s book.

    Bible: No one knows who the Antichrist is.

  237. avatar
    Geir Smith April 1, 2012 at 11:35 am #

    Arthur: Infedels! Gear Smith is BOTH master Xian and deep Budhist thinking contemplative reincarnation of the Buddha soul. On the bottom half, the cross (CROSS–get it!?) legged, GautamaSudhodanna prevails in Geer’s dan-tien chakra of the sacred sexual energy healing stones. Sixth level yellow. But upon the top is the beneleovent sacred heart of Jesus, miracle healing water of Christ. Ger is the revealation of Jesus of the 2nd helping of God. All praice to second comings, and pray thjat Gar comes often. May his hand serve him well.

    Jesus and God aren’t the superior part; for us Buddhists, God does not exist and Jesus is not God.

    Tibetan Tantric Buddhism is the highest form of culture in the world because it has sexual yoga and love between man and woman is the highest form of communion in the world and leads directly to Nirvana i.e. heaven.

    As I did five years study at Paris University on Tibetan culture and language and then 28 years of post-university research upon the Tibetan deity Kalachakra, I’m the world authority on the Tantric deity Kalachakra and the Dalai lama is not.

    That deity has an Antichrist-like figure which I can speak about if needed here.

    But I’m the only one in the world speaking about 666 which marks Obama.

    Thus I’m the prophecied RELUCTANT MESSENGER of that good news, because I have no interest in revealing Obama. I’ve got no personal benefit in play here. I’m not rooting for my own camp. He’s the Christians’ Antichrist and I’m an outsider to the faith to the prophecy and to destiny.

    My only interest is to get this finished with and go leave to Tibet and get this whole Apocalypse thing over with and ended. The Apocalypse itslef is not even called the Apocalypse in our End Times prophecy, it’s called something else.

    Anyone interested in our Buddhist Tibetan Tantric faith can just ask for any information from me. I see you’re totally ignorant and only say ugly and idiotic things when you come to satricially parody it – using your TV-culture, moronical knowledge.

    If I weren’t the announced Messiah then someone else would have to be him in my place.

    But I’ve checked the Internet and no one will touch the 666 Lottery story with a ten-foot pole and run for their lives. No one is revealing Obama and is thus the Messiah to replace me. I’m the Messiah-by-default. The Replacement-Messiah. I didn’t want this damn job.

    When I reveal this to people no one will answer back or criticise it, because they see I’ve got to the goods. No candidates step to take my place.

    The result is TOTAL BLACKOUT. I’m THE ONE because no one will touch it and no one will stand up to me. Come on’ Criticise me. Do it!

  238. avatar
    Geir Smith April 1, 2012 at 11:45 am #

    Rickey: Obama was elected on November 4, which was his “victory-day.”

    One of the winning Pick 3 numbers in Illinois was 666 on November 5. Of course, 666 also was a winning Pick 3 number in Illinois on 1/16/08, 3/22/08 and 10/23/08.

    Nothing out of the ordinary there. The odds of any particular three digits coming up are 999-1. Illinois has two Pick 3 lotteries each day, for a total of 732 lotteries in a leap year. This means that in any given year there is an excellent chance that 666 will be the winner at least once.

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/lottery.asp

    The Lottery drew 666 before 50 plus million people in the five states of Great Lake Area who all get the Illinois-Chicago Lottery broadcast live on TV.

    Obama saw the 666 draw live and broadcast on radio, TV, the newspapers etc…everywhere ont the day of his celebration.

    Reveal this and you’ll be saved to heaven because this is the Apocalypse.

    All dumbwits who think this is about all other occurences of 666 occurring everywhere all the time are ugly stupid people.

    I saw a car license with 666 on it yesterday on TV. I’d have to be sick in the head to infer that that indicated the Antichrist. Obama’s curse of the live Lottery broadcast is a different matter at hand.

    snopes.com is a left-wing website that’s totally unreliable and total liars.

  239. avatar
    y_p_w April 1, 2012 at 1:11 pm #

    Geir Smith: Check Wikipedia. It says the old Pravda reporters gathered and created the online Pravda. Don’t you guys even study at all?

    Yes – I understand that. However, this was done about 8 years after the original Pravda newspaper folded, and it was hardly the media arm of the Russian Communist Party. It was really an attempt for those old reporters to try and make money using a familiar name. I remember seeing it sometime around 2002, and it was a mess. The current Pravda Online is even messier. They’ve basically turned it into a tabloid where conspiracy theories are aired and they allow tons of submissions that aren’t really vetted for their journalistic credentials.

  240. avatar
    G April 1, 2012 at 1:16 pm #

    Exactly. Worthless rubbish and nothing more than fodder for fools.

    y_p_w: They’ve basically turned it into a tabloid where conspiracy theories are aired and they allow tons of submissions that aren’t really vetted for their journalistic credentials

  241. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 1, 2012 at 1:42 pm #

    Actually, that’s not what the Bible says, quite the contrary. If you look at 1 John 2 it is clear that the Christian “end times” were at the time of that writing, and that the antichrist was not an individual, but anyone with certain characteristics:

    18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us….

    22Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 23Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.

    And from 1 John 4:

    1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

    I get the sense from John that the first-century Christians had problems with conspiracy theorists and apocalyptic thinkers just like we do today! And I guess that by the Biblical definition of antichrist, you are one of them yourself.

    It is also clear from the text that the reader in the 1st century was supposed to understand who the beast was from Revelation 13:

    18Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.

    The author told his readers that they could figure out who the beast was, and for that to be true, it had to be someone whose name a first-century reader knew and could calculate. The text is not set in the future tense, but in the present.

    You can make up your own prophecy and religion, but don’t misrepresent mine.

    Geir Smith: Bible: No one knows who the Antichrist is.

  242. avatar
    J. Potter April 1, 2012 at 2:20 pm #

    y_p_w: Yes – I understand that. However, this was done about 8 years after the original Pravda newspaper folded, and it was hardly the media arm of the Russian Communist Party.

    Yes, people who spent years creating spin for the Communist party got together and applied their trade to a new political landscape. Only now free to be as nutty as they wished.

    Smith, just acknowledge the error and move on already, LOL! It’s this pathological inability to accept correction that leads one so deep into delusion.

  243. avatar
    Geir Smith April 1, 2012 at 2:23 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Actually, that’s not what the Bible says, quite the contrary. If you look at 1 John 2 it is clear that the Christian “end times” were at the time of that writing, and that the antichrist was not an individual, but anyone with certain characteristics:

    And from 1 John 4:

    I get the sense from John that the first-century Christians had problems with conspiracy theorists and apocalyptic thinkers just like we do today! And I guess that by the Biblical definition of antichrist, you are one of them yourself.

    It is also clear from the text that the reader in the 1st century was supposed to understand who the beast was from Revelation 13:

    The author told his readers that they could figure out who the beast was, and for that to be true, it had to be someone whose name a first-century reader knew and could calculate. The text is not set in the future tense, but in the present.

    You can make up your own prophecy and religion, but don’t misrepresent mine.

    Obama is the Antichrist:

    Belief Watch
    Lisa Miller

    Miller, former senior writer at the Wall Street Journal, is a senior editor at Newsweek and oversees all of its religion coverage and writes the regular “Belief Watch” column.

    Is Obama the Antichrist?

    On Nov. 5, Todd Strandberg was at his desk, fielding E-mails from around the world. As the editor and founder of RaptureReady.com, his job is to track current events and link them to biblical prophecy in hopes of maintaining his status as “the eBay of prophecy,” the best source online for predictions and calculations concerning the end of the world. Already Barack Obama had drawn the attention of apocalypse watchers after an anonymous e-mail circulated among conservative Christians in October implying that he was the Antichrist. Former “Saturday Night Live” ingénue Victoria Jackson fueled the fire when, according to news reports, she wrote on her Web site that Obama “bears traits that resemble the anti-Christ.” Now Strandberg was receiving up-to-the-minute news from his constituents in Illinois. One of the winning lottery numbers in the president-elect’s home state was 666– which, as everyone knows, is the sign of the Beast (also known as the Antichrist). “It is very eerie, and I take it for a sign as to who he really is,” wrote one of Strandberg’s correspondents.

    Read full article here:

    http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/lisa_miller/2008/11/is_obama_and_antichrist.html

    [This is off topic. No further discussion will be allowed. Geir can have the last word. Doc.]

  244. avatar
    Geir Smith April 1, 2012 at 2:25 pm #

    y_p_w: Yes – I understand that.However, this was done about 8 years after the original Pravda newspaper folded, and it was hardly the media arm of the Russian Communist Party.It was really an attempt for those old reporters to try and make money using a familiar name.I remember seeing it sometime around 2002, and it was a mess.The current Pravda Online is even messier.They’ve basically turned it into a tabloid where conspiracy theories are aired and they allow tons of submissions that aren’t really vetted for their journalistic credentials.

    Pravda’s the only newspaper read in the world so is number one by default. Obama gave the US mssiles to Putin on Thursday because the Pravda’s turned up the heat on the US POTUS for the birth issue. Prvda still rules the world.

  245. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 1, 2012 at 3:00 pm #

    Sorry, I am unable to figure any way to read that so that it makes sense.

    Geir Smith: Pravda’s the only newspaper read in the world so is number one by default

  246. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 1, 2012 at 3:03 pm #

    Geir Smith: Come on’ Criticise me. Do it!

    OK. I criticize you.

    Next?

  247. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 1, 2012 at 3:04 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Sorry, I am unable to figure any way to read that so that it makes sense.

    I believe Geir has joined Sheriff Joe in Wonderland.

  248. avatar
    Obsolete April 1, 2012 at 3:44 pm #

    Geir Smith: snopes.com is a left-wing website that’s totally unreliable and total liars.

    Says the birther whose lies were debunked by Snopes…

    (repeated for the hard of hearing- the Illinois lottery pick on Obama’s election day was NOT 666. Simply repeating it was does not make it so.)

  249. avatar
    Arthur April 1, 2012 at 4:57 pm #

    Geir Smith: I’m THE ONE because no one will touch it

    I KNOW Gear: no one will touch it, and who can blame them–that’s why you sometimes have to take matters into your own hand.

  250. avatar
    Arthur April 1, 2012 at 5:02 pm #

    Geir Smith: I’d have to be sick in the head

    Admitting the truth is the first step towards healing. We’re all proud of you, Greer.

  251. avatar
    Arthur April 1, 2012 at 5:06 pm #

    Geir Smith: Obama gave the US mssiles to Putin on Thursday because the Pravda’s turned up the heat on the US POTUS for the birth issue. Prvda still rules the world.

    I love how your mind works, Geer! It’s like watching a baby eat spaghetti.

  252. avatar
    Arthur April 1, 2012 at 5:11 pm #

    Geir Smith: If I weren’t the announced Messiah then someone else would have to be him in my place

    I nominate Clay Aiken!!!

  253. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 1, 2012 at 5:33 pm #

    Geir Smith: If I weren’t the announced Messiah then someone else would have to be him in my place

    Mr. Smith, there are excellent anti-psychotic medications these days. I suggest you look into it.

  254. avatar
    justlw April 1, 2012 at 5:33 pm #

    Geir Smith: Come on’ Criticise me. Do it!

    You type funny.

  255. avatar
    Sef April 1, 2012 at 5:55 pm #

    Geir Smith: If I weren’t the announced Messiah then someone else would have to be him in my place.

    There’s a third possibility. It’s called the null set. (I notice GS didn’t capitalize “him”.)

  256. avatar
    lester April 2, 2012 at 12:46 pm #

    Haven’t gone through every response here with a fine toothed comb, but what i have reviewed struck me as lacking the one point of discussion that should, one would think, be central – that of the date stamp, the two digit year designation (80) versus the U.S.P.S mandated four digit year designation (1980). Whatever the explanation for this “anomoly” may be, it has nothing to do with the dear Sheriff. One doesn’t need no stinking sheriff to see that something is awry with the date stamp. Dozens of selective service cards were examined including those issued within days from the same post office. Simple question, what is the explanation for this difference? Why is the President’s selective service card (the date stamp on it) different from all other cards examined? This is something that everyone can see for themselves. And don’t get all angry and bent out of shape for me asking. To not ask means what?

  257. avatar
    gorefan April 2, 2012 at 12:55 pm #

    lester: what is the explanation for this difference?

    For the same reason the first “O” in Honolulu is missing. Poor ink transfer from stamp to paper, worn stamp, poor resolution for the copy.

  258. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 2, 2012 at 12:56 pm #

    lester: Dozens of selective service cards were examined including those issued within days from the same post office. Simple question, what is the explanation for this difference? Why is the President’s selective service card (the date stamp on it) different from all other cards examined?

    What is your source for this information?

  259. avatar
    dunstvangeet April 2, 2012 at 12:57 pm #

    Lester, it could just be as simple as a dry area on the pad not transferring ink to the stamp at that point. It could be just as simple as the stamp wearing down, so that the 19 doesn’t show (especially considering that the 19 was probably stationary, and on old stamps were more than likely to break down, versus the 80 which was probably replaced every year). Even the “control” ones that the CCP had showed missing letters on their stamp, despite there being a “mandate” of all the letters being there. Does that mean that there is something off here.

    And it has absolutely nothing to do with anything. What basically you’re saying is that Barack Obama, despite having a valid Hawaii State Birth Certificate, forged a selective service record, broke into the SS, put it into their files 30 years ago, so that sometime in the future he could say that he registered for the draft. Then he bribed a few officials so that 30 years later, they would look at it, and not go, “Hey, there’s something off here about the date stamp” only to have it discovered by a bunch of internet kooks within a couple days of being released? You have to believe that the conspiracy is both infinitely powerful, and infinitely stupid to actually believe that.

  260. avatar
    Majority Will April 2, 2012 at 12:57 pm #

    lester:
    Haven’t gone through every response here with a fine toothed comb, but what i have reviewed struck me as lacking the one point of discussion that should, one would think, be central – that of the date stamp, the two digit year designation (80) versus the U.S.P.S mandated four digit year designation (1980).Whatever the explanation for this “anomoly” may be, it has nothing to do with the dear Sheriff.One doesn’t need no stinking sheriff to see that something is awry with the date stamp. Dozens of selective service cards were examined including those issued within days from the same post office.Simple question, what is the explanation for this difference?Why is the President’s selective service card (the date stamp on it) different from all other cards examined?This is something that everyone can see for themselves.And don’t get all angry and bent out of shape for me asking.To not ask means what?

    Notify the FBI immediately.

  261. avatar
    lester April 2, 2012 at 1:05 pm #

    Seriously, thank you all for the thoughtful replies. One more question, though. The misalignment of the numbers? I can buy the argument of part of the stamp not getting inked properly, but the misalignment of the numbers within date stamp circle? Thanks.

  262. avatar
    misha April 2, 2012 at 1:13 pm #

    lester: One more question, though. The misalignment of the numbers? I can buy the argument of part of the stamp not getting inked properly, but the misalignment of the numbers within date stamp circle?

    When are you going to notify the FBI? You have proof. Also, I found a Kenya BC (Obama’s?) that may help you.

    Thanks for visiting.

  263. avatar
    Scientist April 2, 2012 at 1:16 pm #

    lester: I can buy the argument of part of the stamp not getting inked properly, but the misalignment of the numbers within date stamp circle? Thanks

    They aren’t misaligned. If the “19″ had inked you would have a perfectly centered “1980″..

    Two other points:

    1. The CCP obtained the document from a birther web site that SUPPOSEDLY got it from Selective Sevice under a FOIA. From a legal standpoint that renders any analysis worthless, since how do we know alterations weren’t introduced by the birther?

    2. The miissing “19″ is not evidence of forgery. A forger would know what a proper stamp looked like just as well as the CCP does no? The idea that Obama is a criminal genius but hires 4th rate forgers is kind of silly, isn’t it?

  264. avatar
    dunstvangeet April 2, 2012 at 1:26 pm #

    Scientist, as I said, the birther conspiracy theory requires Obama to be both infinitely powerful, and infinitely stupid.

  265. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 2, 2012 at 1:43 pm #

    It really didn’t look misaligned to me. I took the whole image and rotated it so that it was level, and it looked perfectly normal. It is the case that it was a little bit horizontally displaced from another stamp they had, but objectively I think that was the one that was off-center.

    When somebody draws alignment guides of what something is “supposed” to be, it tricks the eye into seeing things that aren’t there, particularly when the image is slanted.

    Compare a missing bit of ink with the complexity of somehow getting a fake document into the SSS files and the SSS computer system during the Bush Administration while at the same time not being able to buy rubber stamp numbers at the office supply store, Is there any wonder why the news media has ignored this issue?

    lester: I can buy the argument of part of the stamp not getting inked properly, but the misalignment of the numbers within date stamp circle?

  266. avatar
    JPotter April 2, 2012 at 1:44 pm #

    I went to see the Woody Guthrie Centennial exhibit yesterday at the Gilcrease Museum. I highly recommend the museum and the exhibit.

    One case was a display of booking cards, mailed to Woodie by an agency in New York. Very simple handwritten forms in the form of plain-white postacards, like an appointment reminder from a medical office. They had all been mailed, and all stamped “1943″, 4 digits, not 2.

    Such a display, taken out of context, indicates many, many things, but proves little.

    There was another display, of personal postcards, many of them “modified” by Woodie. Some were clearly and boldly stamped, some lightly, and incompletely stamped.

    Some weren’t stamped at all.

    You know what that proves?

    That Woodie Guthrie was magic.

  267. avatar
    gorefan April 2, 2012 at 2:01 pm #

    lester: The misalignment of the numbers?

    If it was a forgery and they didn’t have a “19′ wouldn’t they have centered the “80″ so it would look more normal?

  268. avatar
    Scientist April 2, 2012 at 3:32 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Compare a missing bit of ink with the complexity of somehow getting a fake document into the SSS files and the SSS computer system during the Bush Administration while at the same time not being able to buy rubber stamp numbers at the office supply store, Is there any wonder why the news media has ignored this issue?

    Place: Chicago, IL
    Date: September 2008
    Time: 2 AM

    BO: You guys got everyting set for tomorrow’s operation
    David Axelrod: Yeah, boss. Don’t worry. Piece of cake.
    BO: Don’t say that word in front of Michelle
    David Plouffe: We’ve lined up the best. Navy Seals to break into the files. Hackers from “Anonymous” to take care of the computer systems.
    George Soros: With the budget I gave you, this had better go without a hitch.
    BO: Word, George!! Slam dunk! 3 pointer from downtown!
    DA: The only possible glitch is I didn’t have time to stop at Staples to get a 4 digit 1980 date stamp. Damn Blitzer kept me waiting for almost an hour. Some Brothers had some kind of problem in NYC.
    GS: You mean Lehman? Yikes, I better check the old portfolio…
    DP: Well, don’t worry, my man, we can use this one from 2008. Just cut off the “20″ and turn the “08″ upside down. No one will care that it’s 2 digits.
    BO: That’s right. Those FBIs couldn’t link Moussaoui to 9/11. They’re useless.
    DA: Yeah, like who’s going to catch us, Sheriff Joe? General laughter.
    DP: That man is like Hercule Poirot and Sherlock Holmes together. Brilliant lawman. And incorruptible.
    BO: Anyway, it’s too late to call it off. Are we go?
    Everyone: Nods…

  269. avatar
    Montana April 7, 2012 at 3:01 pm #

    Win a case in our “U.S. Courts”, maybe in til then you will continue to seen as dullards, liars or racist or maybe all three. Deal with that baby!

    Hey, but at least you can look forward in standing behind Mitt Romney a truue conservative.

  270. avatar
    Sef April 7, 2012 at 4:29 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    It really didn’t look misaligned to me. I took the whole image and rotated it so that it was level, and it looked perfectly normal. It is the case that it was a little bit horizontally displaced from another stamp they had, but objectively I think that was the one that was off-center.

    When somebody draws alignment guides of what something is “supposed” to be, it tricks the eye into seeing things that aren’t there, particularly when the image is slanted.

    Compare a missing bit of ink with the complexity of somehow getting a fake document into the SSS files and the SSS computer system during the Bush Administration while at the same time not being able to buy rubber stamp numbers at the office supply store, Is there any wonder why the news media has ignored this issue?

    Speaking of alignment, has anyone commented that on the LFBC the security image is not aligned with the image clipping mask? Open the pdf, blow it up, go to the lower left corner and you will notice that there is very little space between the vertical green bar and the left edge. Now go to the top left and notice that the right edge of a vertical green bar is just peeking out from the white. Similarly, this can be seen in the horizontal between the top left and the top right, but is easier to see in the vertical. However, the mask of the actual BC is square with the left edge. This argues against this being a computer generated image. It is easy to misalign a piece of paper in a copier/printer.

  271. avatar
    misha April 7, 2012 at 6:03 pm #

    Montana: Hey, but at least you can look forward in standing behind Mitt Romney a truue conservative.

    No one ever asked to see Romney’s BC. His father was born in Mexico, ostensibly to US citizens.

  272. avatar
    misha April 7, 2012 at 8:04 pm #

    misha: No one ever asked to see Romney’s BC. His father was born in Mexico, ostensibly to US citizens.

    Oops. I forgot to work in the dog on the car roof, for 12 hours.

  273. avatar
    John Reilly April 7, 2012 at 8:23 pm #

    Misha, the dog on the roof of the car is irrelevant to Gov. Romney’s qualifications. According to Vattel, it only matters if the dog is a St. Bernard.

  274. avatar
    J. Potter April 7, 2012 at 8:32 pm #

    Speaking of Romney, here’s a Bloomberg article about him …. look down below for the concern comment from David Farrar!

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-05/romney-s-gaffes-won-t-cost-him-as-many-votes-as-his-views.html

    ex animo!

    What’s the goal of birfin’ against everything that moves? Who do they want to see elected? Is it Ron Paul, or are they waiting for a grumpy old WASP named John Q. Bircher to ride in on a white horse? “Howdy, pilgrim.”

  275. avatar
    Northland10 April 8, 2012 at 7:20 am #

    John Reilly:
    Misha, the dog on the roof of the car is irrelevant to Gov. Romney’s qualifications.According to Vattel, it only matters if the dog is a St. Bernard.

    A St. Bernard would crush a Gremlin.

  276. avatar
    misha April 8, 2012 at 10:36 am #

    Northland10: A St. Bernard would crush a Gremlin.

    The 50 Worst Cars of All Time – 1970 AMC Gremlin
    http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1658545_1658498_1657865,00.html

    “Thanks, Dad.”