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I was never here

This article’s title comes from dialog in the movie, The Hunt for Red October. The article’s subject comes from yet another wrinkle in the alternative history of Barack Obama courtesy of the birthers. This one came in email, although it’s probably on some birther web site too. The writer claims that Barack Obama, Sr. was never in Hawaii, and neither was his mother at the time the President was conceived!

I’ve written before on the fact that various official documents of Barack Obama, Sr. show two different dates of birth, one in 1934 and one in 1936. The latest birther flap relates to an apparent disparity in the spelling of his given name, “Barack” and “Barrack.” (There are other variants in the name in other documents as well.) Based on this, and some assumptions about what “authentic” documents are supposed to look like, the writer of the email comes to the conclusion that Barack Obama, Sr. didn’t attend the University of Hawaii at all, and “probably never set foot on the islands of Hawaii.” The argument takes the “Barrack” spelling as correct (never mind what it says on his tombstone) and then claims all other documents are fake, including the President’s birth certificate, and the newspaper announcements of a son born to “Barack” Obama.

The writer also seems to be unable to understand that some people (e.g. Stanley Ann Dunham) start college before age 18 and so she must have still been in high school in Washington state when the President was conceived.  (My son started college at 17 and his mother started at 16.)

Following is the email verbatim:

Doc, we know from the release of UK files listing foreign students from Kenya Colony circa 1960 that the correct spelling of Obama Sr is Barrack. >From the Certificates of Eligibility for 1960 and 1961 for Barrack Obama we know his birthdate is June 18, 1934. Those certificates have been altered where it says Honolulu, Hawaii when it should be Honolulu, Oahu, and "the University of Hawaii" or "University of Hawaii" when it should be University of Hawaii and branch.  But not important as those items were made by a different typewriter than the main body and thus ALTERED meaning Barrack Obama never attended the University of Hawaii and probably never stepped foot on the Islands of Hawaii. Same goes for ‘Barack Obama’ who never legally had even the mispelled (sic)Barack name.

The FBI lists records by name and birthdate. Many have the same name but chances of having the same name and birthdate are small1. That would be one chance in 366.

There are no legitimate documents, newspaper articles, photos, birth announcements, birth certificates that place the Obamas in Hawaii in any way, shape, or form. Remember if it doesn’t have Barrack with the double rr and the Birthdate June 18, 1934 or an age calculated to that birthdate it isn’t a legit Obama Sr document. The alleged birthdate of August 4, 1961 is a sure sign that the document is forged. Obama is at least 10 years older than that birthdate implies. But more important Stanley Ann Dunham’s birthdate of November 29, 1942 made her close to age 18 on the alleged conception date November 1960. As her birthstate Kansas has a school attendance cutoff date of August 31th, her high school class was Class of 1961 so she was in attendance at a Washington state high school, Mercer Island High School, on the alleged conception date NOT IN HAWAII.

Furthermore the high school handwriting samples of Stanley Ann Dunham don’t match all of the forged Stanley Ann Dunham signatures on a brace of Obama documents. Google Annwriting1 for the handwriting samples.

1For common names, the same name and birthdate is extremely common. Barack Obama, of course, is not a common name.

,

89 Responses to I was never here

  1. avatar
    gorefan May 15, 2012 at 9:33 pm #

    Yesterday upon the stair
    I met a man who wasn’t there
    He wasn’t there again today
    Oh, how I wish he’d go away

  2. avatar
    don wilkie May 15, 2012 at 9:53 pm #

    doc,
    just for the sake of clarity, i think it behooves you to acknowledge that for the entire time Obama Sr. was in Hawaii, he listed his birth date as 6/18/1934. this was also his date of birth on his visa that allowed him to come to america and although we have not seen his passport, it is inconceivable that this was not the date on the passport. Sr. was 27 when Jr. was born, so the birth certificate is suspect. not saying its wrong, just suspect.

  3. avatar
    gorefan May 15, 2012 at 10:02 pm #

    don wilkie: so the birth certificate is suspect. not saying its wrong, just suspect.

    How does that make it “suspect”?

  4. avatar
    don wilkie May 15, 2012 at 10:10 pm #

    well, if Obama Sr. acknowledged he was 27 when Obama Jr. was born, why does the BC list Obama Sr.’s age as 25? hmmmm?

  5. avatar
    Majority Will May 15, 2012 at 10:11 pm #

    gorefan: How does that make it “suspect”?

    “Suspect” is a magical birther bigot word for the small minded and paranoid to sling about like charmed pixie dust.

  6. avatar
    don wilkie May 15, 2012 at 10:15 pm #

    i understand everything now, thanks!

  7. avatar
    Majority Will May 15, 2012 at 10:44 pm #

    “It is no more than a guess, but [Don] Wilkie said he suspects the official birth certificate contains a bombshell — some detail that would call the president’s official biography into question and expose a cover-up.”

    (http://www.zoominfo.com/#!search/profile/person?personId=1230378856&targetid=profile)

    The same Don?

    There’s that word suspect again. It’s magical!

  8. avatar
    Majority Will May 15, 2012 at 10:50 pm #

    “[Don] Wilkie offers a novel interpretation of “Pop.” Says Wilkie, “I think the poem zeros in on that poignant moment when Obama was told that his grandfather was in reality his father.” Wilkie concedes his theory is “off-the-wall,” but he also offers photographic evidence to show that Obama much more closely resembles Dunham — especially by the telltale ears — than he does Barack Obama, Sr.”

    (http://obamatheusurper.wordpress.com/)

    Who needs credible evidence with so many deep suspicions at work?

  9. avatar
    gorefan May 15, 2012 at 10:50 pm #

    don wilkie: well, if Obama Sr. acknowledged he was 27 when Obama Jr. was born, why does the BC list Obama Sr.’s age as 25? hmmmm?

    Is it possible that Obama Sr. lied to the 18 year old Stanley Ann and knocked a couple of years off his age? Could a typist filling out the BC have misread the handwritten form that was filled out by the parents?

    Why does the mind immediately go to suspicious?

  10. avatar
    nbc May 15, 2012 at 11:08 pm #

    don wilkie: just for the sake of clarity, i think it behooves you to acknowledge that for the entire time Obama Sr. was in Hawaii, he listed his birth date as 6/18/1934.

    So what if his birthdate was provided by Ann? Again, a minor discrepancy of no relevance to the fact of Obama’s birth on Hawaiian soil

  11. avatar
    Loren May 15, 2012 at 11:09 pm #

    There are some vocal Birthers who fancy themselves to be genealogists. I can’t recall if I’ve seen any of them advance these sorts of arguments about Senior’s birthyear or spelling of his first name, but it would surprise me if they did. That is, assuming they’re *actually* genealogy enthusiasts.

    In pre-vital records days, it was downright COMMON for people’s ages and name-spellings to fluctuate across records. If you’ve done any Census research, you know that part of the challenge in locating records is in knowing the margin of error that the census taker might have had. People simply got stuff wrong, or changed it if they felt the inclination. Remember how Birthers themselves point to the age-fudging in Chester Arthur’s case?

    One of my ancestor’s brothers was named Azel. Or Azzelle. Or Ancel. Or Acil. Or even Marion. In every Census he appears in, his first name changes (as you might expect, finding him listed as ‘Marion’ was not easy). I’m sure he had a preferred spelling, but it’s not like there was a certified state document reflecting it. Maybe there was a family Bible, but he hardly had a ‘legal’ name in the modern sense.

    The same can probably be said of Barack Senior. I don’t know what kind of birth records were being kept in Kogelo, Kenya in the mid-1930s, but I’m guessing they were few, if any. So how does he spell his name in the US? However he wants to. Heck, I had Asian and Indian friends in school who regularly took on entirely new first names in America; remember that ‘Bobby’ Jindal’s first name is actually “Piyush.” So the change of a single letter is supposed to be some huge sign of fraud and conspiracy? And if his age fluctuates a matter of just two years, that’s hardly inexplicable either.

  12. avatar
    nbc May 15, 2012 at 11:11 pm #

    Gorefan… Great minds do think alike…

  13. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 15, 2012 at 11:34 pm #

    Loren: People simply got stuff wrong

    My father’s family lived in a small town on the Colorado prarie – probably not more than 100 souls – and in the 1920 census their last name is misspelled.

    My grandfather was the local rural mail carrier. My grandmother ran the local general store and taught Sunday school. It’s not like people didn’t know who they were.

  14. avatar
    gorefan May 15, 2012 at 11:36 pm #

    nbc: Great minds do think alike…

    I was just thinking the same thing.

  15. avatar
    Rickey May 15, 2012 at 11:53 pm #

    nbc: So what if his birthdate was provided by Ann? Again, a minor discrepancy of no relevance to the fact of Obama’s birth on Hawaiian soil

    As Barack Obama Sr.’s immigration file shows, he sometimes listed his year of birth as 1934 and sometimes as 1936. However, he consistently spelled his first name as “Barack.”

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/54015762/Barack-Hussein-Obama-Sr-Immigration-File

    It is possible that he was not certain of his own date of birth. Even today there are many immigrants from Africa (and elsewhere) who do not know their exact date of birth. Whatever the reason for Obama’s discrepancy, there is no question that he was in Hawaii when the future President was born. Memo by William Wood II dated 8/31/61:

    Obama, Barack H., Claims to intend at attend Univ. Hawaii for at least one more year to gain Bach. Arts Degree in Economics. U.S.C. spouse to go to Wash State University next semester. When finishes school have plans to go a mainland school for a Doctor Degree in Economics – after that to return to Kenya. They have one child born Honolulu on 8/4/61 – Barack Obama II, child living with mother (she lives with her parents and Subject resides at 1482 Alencastre St..

  16. avatar
    Majority Will May 15, 2012 at 11:56 pm #

    don wilkie:
    well, if Obama Sr. acknowledged he was 27 when Obama Jr. was born, why does the BC list Obama Sr.’s age as 25? hmmmm?

    “Toward the end of his life, Elvis sought to change the spelling of his middle name to the traditional and biblical Aaron. In the process he learned that official state records had inexplicably listed it as Aaron, and not Aron as on his original birth records. Knowing Elvis’ plans for his middle name, Aaron is the spelling his father chose for Elvis’ tombstone, and it’s the spelling his estate has designated as the official spelling when the middle name is used today.”

    (http://www.elvis.com.au/presley/article_aron_or_aaron.shtml)

    Or it’s a vast conspiracy with sinister motives. Either way.

  17. avatar
    Majority Will May 15, 2012 at 11:59 pm #

    CarlOrcas: My father’s family lived in a small town on the Colorado prarie – probably not more than 100 souls – and in the 1920 census their last name is misspelled.

    My grandfather was the local rural mail carrier. My grandmother ran the local general store and taught Sunday school. It’s not like people didn’t know who they were.

    By birther logic, they were obviously up to no good.

  18. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 16, 2012 at 12:42 am #

    The Birth Certificate lists him as 25 because Stanley Ann Obama informed the State of Hawaii (she signed the form as Informant) that he was 25. The fact is that Obama Sr. himself signed documents after this with both the 1934 and the 1946 dates. He was inconsistent. Why? I can only guess, but it would be crazy to guess that he wasn’t even there.

    don wilkie: well, if Obama Sr. acknowledged he was 27 when Obama Jr. was born, why does the BC list Obama Sr.’s age as 25? hmmmm?

  19. avatar
    gorefan May 16, 2012 at 1:15 am #

    don wilkie: i understand everything now, thanks!

    If you are interested in suspicious BCs
    look at this one:

    http://www.safeguardourconstitution.com/images/stories/documents/apf02-tlakincertificateoflivebirth.pdf

    Both the mother and the attending physician didn’t sign the BC, their names were typed in. hmmmm

    Very suspicious.

  20. avatar
    dunstvangeet May 16, 2012 at 2:12 am #

    Actually, it only takes 23 people for there to be a 50% of a repeat in birthdate. So, if there are more than 23 Barack Obama’s in the country, they is a greater than 50% chance that 2 of those Barack Obama’s share the same birthdate.

  21. avatar
    y_p_w May 16, 2012 at 2:43 am #

    gorefan: If you are interested in suspicious BCs
    look at this one:

    http://www.safeguardourconstitution.com/images/stories/documents/apf02-tlakincertificateoflivebirth.pdf

    Both the mother and the attending physician didn’t sign the BC, their names were typed in. hmmmm

    Very suspicious.

    Suspicious indeed.

    Seriously though, there are all sorts of ways these things are done. I remember the registrar’s signature on our marriage license. It was rubber stamped in block letters with the registrar’s name. Everything else is signed at least with a scribble. The Deputy Clerk’s name was computer printed on the license, but I was there when he also signed his initials in whatever space was left in the box. They’d also have fun with it since in the same doc the County Clerk is referred to as the “County Clerk”, “Local Registrar”, and “County Recorder”, including a pre-printed signature at the certification statement on the bottom.

    A birther might get a kick out of my kid’s BC. The hospital employee asked us to sign on the same line even though there’s only one box. The hospital administrator who signed it as the certifier only made a tiny scribble that looks like signed initials. The registrar also looks like she signed her initials in whatever was left of the box after her name was typed.

    And don’t get me started with names and how they’re mixed up over the years.

  22. avatar
    Judge Mental May 16, 2012 at 5:33 am #

    dunstvangeet: Actually, it only takes 23 people for there to be a 50% of a repeat in birthdate. So, if there are more than 23 Barack Obama’s in the country, they is a greater than 50% chance that 2 of those Barack Obama’s share the same birthdate.

    However that probability only applies if you disregard the year in the birth date.

  23. avatar
    The Magic M May 16, 2012 at 6:02 am #

    Loren: So the change of a single letter is supposed to be some huge sign of fraud and conspiracy?

    You have to remember two things central to birtherism.

    One is being obsessed with finding “inconsistencies” where there are none – just remember how they went ballistic over Obama being called “Barry” in school. Where every sane person knows “it’s a nickname, like ‘Bill’ for ‘William'”, they immediately went “when did he ever legally change his name to ‘Barry’?”.
    Or that single flyer/poster where his name is spelled “Baracka”.
    (And don’t even get me started about the crossed-out bracketed “Soebarkah”.)

    But hey, many of them believed the absurd Martha Trowbridge story of him wearing Malcolm X’s glasses…

    The other is their general MO of accumulating common (real or perceived) inconsistencies and then claiming that it’s somehow suspicious how so many of them occur about just one person.

    > The argument takes the “Barrack” spelling as correct

    Another tell-tale sign of confirmation bias. Just like they took the Nordyke twins’ BC number and claimed it must be Obama’s that is out of sequence. (And of course outright false propaganda when WND hid the BC number of their sample BC which, even if only the first number had been revealed, would’ve shown the numbers weren’t assigned the way birthers claim.)

    If you have different spellings, you can try to make an argument why you consider one of them to be the correct one, but they don’t even try that here.

    Loren: One of my ancestor’s brothers was named Azel. Or Azzelle. Or Ancel. Or Acil. Or even Marion.

    A former girlfriend of mine had a pretty simple last name (“Ahner”), yet she had to spell it out quite often because people understood the strangest variations of it or didn’t understand it at all. I think she also had some official documents where it was spelled wrong. Conspiracy? Well, who knows…

  24. avatar
    Expelliarmus May 16, 2012 at 6:27 am #

    Loren: I don’t know what kind of birth records were being kept in Kogelo, Kenya in the mid-1930s, but I’m guessing they were few, if any

    In Kenya in the 30’s there was no compulsory registration of births of native Africans – at the time it was customary to register only the births of Europeans and Americans. It is highly unlikely that Obama Sr.’s birth would have been recorded, as compulsory registration of Africans did not begin until 1963, when it was gradually implemented by geographical area.

    Here’s a source:

    Registration of births and deaths was introduced for the first time in Kenya in 1904 and applied only to Europeans and Americans. However, in 1928 the Registration Act Cap 149 was enacted and provided for the compulsory registration of the deaths of Africans but not for their births.After independence in 1963, compulsory registration of all births and deaths was extended in phases to other areas, beginning with Nairobi and Nyeri on 1st March 1963.

    On 1st September 1971 it becomes compulsory to register all births and deaths occurring in Kenya.The mandate of the Civil Registration Department is derived from the Registration Act Cap 149 of 1928, the Legitimacy Act (Cap. 145) and Presidential Circular No1 on the Organization of Government.

    See: http://goo.gl/OMSSI (from web site at gjlos.go.ke)

  25. avatar
    Norbrook May 16, 2012 at 6:48 am #

    It’s a measure of their inability to deal with reality that they focus obsessively on details that don’t make any difference or have readily available explanations. Just a quick look at any birther comments, and you’ll see a number of different spellings of “Barack.” So why is it news that various people, in the days before easy correction via word processing software, would not only make the same mistakes, but fail to correct them? Oh, right, it’s a conspiracy!

    Heck, I went to college when I was 17. In fact, I started school before I was “legally” supposed to. My birthday is 5 days after the “cut-off” in my state, but because following that would have meant I would have been in the same class as my younger sister, my parent’s put me in.

    I even know that “official” documents can have errors. My aunt had to get a “certified” copy of her birth certificate, and I noticed that her father’s name on the document was “wrong.” He always went by his middle name, not his first name, so the clerk way back when had simply written it down on the form by the name he knew my grandfather by. Which, of course, was not his “full legal name.”

  26. avatar
    Scientist May 16, 2012 at 7:49 am #

    When names from cultures that do not use the Roman alphabet are rendered in English, there are often alternate spellings. Li and Lee are alternate renderings of the same Chinese character (also used in Korean). Same with Wong vs Wang. Same is true of Russian-was it Czar Nicholas or Tsar Nicholas? Arabic names, same story-was the late, unlamented Libyan leader Gaddafi or Qaddafi?

    On another note, what relevance is the site of conception? I thought it was natural BORN citizen, not natural conceived citizen. Suppose a President was conceived iin the back seat of a car (as some may have been)? So what? And what if it’s a Toyota or a BMW?

  27. avatar
    don wilkie May 16, 2012 at 7:49 am #

    doc, its a bit of a cop out not to inform your followers that Obama Sr. during his time in Hawaii only used the 1934 DOB. His official government documents listed his DOB as 1934. There is also a newspaper article welcoming the 25 year old African written in 1959, which again would point to Obama Sr. being 27 in 1961.

    Your contention that Ann as the “Informant” gave the wrong age for her husband is certainly possible. All i’m saying is that it adds a level of strangeness that doesn’t need to be there, how many wives don’t know the age of their husbands?

    Yes, after he went to Harvard he was inconsistent, for what reason we will never kinow. But does that lead anyone to the logical conclusion that Obama Sr. was not in Hawaii? i’m not sure why you said that as it is a total nonsequitar.

  28. avatar
    El Diablo Negro May 16, 2012 at 7:58 am #

    don wilkie: how many wives don’t know the age of their husbands?

    If their husband was from a country that did not enforce or have credible record keeping. If he was from Iowa there would have been a more credible hint of conspiracy.

  29. avatar
    Majority Will May 16, 2012 at 8:38 am #

    don wilkie: All i’m saying is that it adds a level of strangeness that doesn’t need to be there

    Need to be there? What a bizarre, empty and asinine assertion.

    Need means requirement. Based on what? Your official authority or the state of Hawaii that has officially declared the date and birthplace of the President?

    Levels of strangeness is birther bigots running like frightened children from meaningless shadows.

    Maybe you could spend your time making numerology analogies and word puzzles from everything Obama related as proof of a deep, dark web of conspiracy.

    What’s your game?

  30. avatar
    Majority Will May 16, 2012 at 8:41 am #

    The Magic M: The other is their general MO of accumulating common (real or perceived) inconsistencies and then claiming that it’s somehow suspicious how so many of them occur about just one person.

    And birther bigots get all giggly and giddy (and spam post their magical findings across the intarwebs) when they think they have the “smoking gun”.

  31. avatar
    Arthur May 16, 2012 at 8:54 am #

    Hi don,

    Couple things . . . first, my mother didn’t know the correct age of my father. He was thirteen years older than she was, and he was always self-conscious about the age difference. He consistently presented himself as three years younger than he actually was. She didn’t learn his correct age until he applied for a passport when he was 67.

    Second, there’s no need to put “informant” in quotes, as if it’s a questionable or suspicious word. Although it has pejorative associations, the term is used in government, industry and academia to identify individuals who provide official information. For example, an anthropologist solicits information from an informant when gathering linguistic or cultural information.

    don wilkie: Your contention that Ann as the “Informant” gave the wrong age for her husband is certainly possible. All i’m saying is that it adds a level of strangeness that doesn’t need to be there, how many wives don’t know the age of their husbands?

  32. avatar
    Northland10 May 16, 2012 at 8:58 am #

    Well, Obama Sr was less than truthful to SAD about his other marriage, so not being fully up front about his birth year.

    El Diablo Negro: If thier husband was from a country that did not enforce or have credible record keeping. If he was from Iowa there would have been a more credible hint of conspiracy.

  33. avatar
    gorefan May 16, 2012 at 9:12 am #

    don wilkie: All i’m saying is that it adds a level of strangeness that doesn’t need to be there,

    Talk about level of strangeness check out this BC,

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ag4U35aNZII/TU3K6qGaRgI/AAAAAAAAGOg/tGvtprphRG0/s1600/rrbc.jpg

    The doctor and state registrar didn’t get around to signing it until 31 years after the birth.

    Very suspicious. hmmmm

  34. avatar
    Thinker May 16, 2012 at 9:20 am #

    Orly Taitz once submitted a pleading in which she spelled her name Orley. She was once issued a traffic ticket in Orange County under the name Obly. She recently called into a radio show in Indiana and used the name Lena. Why does she go by so many names? What is she hiding? How can she run for senate under a name that may not even be her real name?

  35. avatar
    don wilkie May 16, 2012 at 9:25 am #

    it appears that most on this site think like OSGOOD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWS2NVX6VP0

  36. avatar
    Majority Will May 16, 2012 at 9:26 am #

    Thinker:
    Orly Taitz once submitted a pleading in which she spelled her name Orley. She was once issued a traffic ticket in Orange County under the name Obly. She recently called into a radio show in Indiana and used the name Lena. Why does she go by so many names? What is she hiding? How can she run for senate under a name that may not even be her real name?

    She is a screeching paragon of levels of strangeness.

  37. avatar
    Majority Will May 16, 2012 at 9:29 am #

    don wilkie:
    it appears that most on this site think like OSGOOD

    It’s obvious you’ve completely missed the point. How very SAD.

  38. avatar
    Arthur May 16, 2012 at 9:31 am #

    Very funny clip! But I’m not at all like Osgood–I prefer brunettes.

    don wilkie: it appears that most on this site think like OSGOOD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWS2NVX6VP0

  39. avatar
    gorefan May 16, 2012 at 9:34 am #

    don wilkie: it appears that most on this site think like OSGOOD

    Here is another suspicious BC,

    http://media.nola.com/politics/photo/jindal-birth-certificatejpg-0f45528d3269cada.jpg

    There are at least four examples of the typed letter combination “Ba” in all four cases the “a” is touching the “B”. Kerning like that is impossible on a manual typewriter.

    And the child has no middle name.

    Very suspicious, hmmmm

  40. avatar
    El Diablo Negro May 16, 2012 at 9:35 am #

    Osgood is right, nobody’s perfect. Except for birthers of course.

    don wilkie: it appears that most on this site think like OSGOOD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWS2NVX6VP0

  41. avatar
    John Reilly May 16, 2012 at 9:45 am #

    My thinking is simple, Mr. Wilkie. The President was born in Hawaii. The State of Hawaii says so. That is who, in our country, we have to keep such information. Despite having an odd name, a Muslim middle name, being Black, having a Kenyan Father, and having lived in Indonesia, he received a landslide victory in a free and open vote. The Electoral College, the body which makes these decisions under our Constitution, chose him. The Electoral College vote was approved by Congress, where not a single Senator or Representative challenged the outcome.

    Now do you actually have evidence, not troll-like suspicions, that the President was born somewhere else? A birth certificate perhaps? And where is your concern that Gov. Romney (who I support) has not yet made his birth certificate public? Where were your suspicions when Sen. McCain (who I voted for) did not make his birth certificate public? We are talking about evidence here, something if produced in Court would tend to prove a point. Not suspicions or concerns. Do you have any evidence?

    There is nothing odd in my thinking. The State of Hawaii says the President was born in Hawaii. Nothing you or any Birther has said can get around that inescapable fact.

  42. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 16, 2012 at 9:47 am #

    The article mentions and links to my previous article that details the chronological usage of the two dates of birth. I did inform my readers. However, I am amazed that anyone would find anything of note.

    Later on we see that Obama Sr. used different dates in official documents and I think it absurd to suggest that documents in the INS archives are fakes. Ann Obama was the informant because she signed the form. It’s not open to speculation; she took responsibility for the information on the form.

    don wilkie: doc, its a bit of a cop out not to inform your followers that Obama Sr. during his time in Hawaii only used the 1934 DOB. His official government documents listed his DOB as 1934. There is also a newspaper article welcoming the 25 year old African written in 1959, which again would point to Obama Sr. being 27 in 1961.

    Your contention that Ann as the “Informant” gave the wrong age for her husband is certainly possible. All i’m saying is that it adds a level of strangeness that doesn’t need to be there, how many wives don’t know the age of their husbands?

  43. avatar
    James M May 16, 2012 at 9:52 am #

    Well, if President Obama doesn’t exist, why is Mr. Romney forced to work so hard to campaign against him?

  44. avatar
    James M May 16, 2012 at 9:57 am #

    don wilkie: All i’m saying is that it adds a level of strangeness that doesn’t need to be there, how many wives don’t know the age of their husbands?

    I once got my own age wrong, when I wasn’t sure if I was 46 or 47. Obviously I figured it out pretty quickly, but still, I had somehow convinced myself that I was 47 when I was only 46. My wife could easily get my age wrong because she would count the years between us but would not consider which side of the quarter we are on, so she could get it off by one year three months out of twelve.

  45. avatar
    The Magic M May 16, 2012 at 10:03 am #

    Scientist: Arabic names, same story-was the late, unlamented Libyan leader Gaddafi or Qaddafi?

    The German Wikipedia entry also lists “Qaddhafi” as an alternative spelling. And think about Osama/Ussama bin/ben Laden/Ladin.

    Thinker: Why does she go by so many names?

    Well, since birthers always attribute anything anyone pro-Obama writes to Obama himself as if he wrote it in person, we should remind them how many different spellings of “Arpaio” are prevalent among birthers. According to their own theory, he is using many names that are not legally his, too. 😉

    Also, one wonders why he always goes by “Joe” since he was allegedly born Joseph Arpaio. When did he legally change his name to “Joe”?

  46. avatar
    James M May 16, 2012 at 10:03 am #

    John Reilly: The State of Hawaii says the President was born in Hawaii.

    I think most birthers actually agree with that proposition. The “born under foreign influence” arguments greatly outnumber the “born in Kenya” ones.

  47. avatar
    Bob May 16, 2012 at 10:27 am #

    My mother’s foster parents simply crossed out the name she was given at birth and wrote in the name they wanted to call her. She was two and it became her name.

    I guess I’ll never be president.

  48. avatar
    Pastor Charmley May 16, 2012 at 10:31 am #

    I have a first name with an unusual spelling which is often mis-spelled, despite being English. How much more must that be true for a man with a foreign name? Especially given that there is an English word ‘Barrack’ that sounds the same. It is thoroughly ridiculous to say that because there is variation in spelling a name, that means that documents containing the mis-spelling mus be fake.

    It happens that I grew up in a village with two variant names (a village in England, mind you). Again, are we to say that because I spell the village name with one ‘M’, I never lived there because the road sign uses two? I think not. Spelling variation happens, especially when you are moving from one language to another.

    Again, I entered an institution called University College Chester, and graduated from Chester College. Does this mean anything? Yes, the name changed the year after I started. My old college ID card has ‘University College Chester’ on it.

    I imagine that people could have great fun with me over these facts: My first name is spelled differently in various documents including school registers and records. The village where I grew up is variously spelled. While I claim to have studied at Chester College, my old College ID card reads ‘University College Chester’. Surely this means I’ve falsified something.

    No, I just have a name that people don’t know how to spell, lived in a village where the spelling has not yet been finalized, and went to a college that changed its name while I studied there. Stuff happens.

  49. avatar
    bovril May 16, 2012 at 10:33 am #

    The Magic M: Scientist: Arabic names, same story-was the late, unlamented Libyan leader Gaddafi or Qaddafi?
    The German Wikipedia entry also lists “Qaddhafi” as an alternative spelling. And think about Osama/Ussama bin/ben Laden/Ladin.

    Don’t get me started, when I have had to drive some AML (Anti-Money Laundering) programmes the plethora of weird and wonderful variations in the same individuals names from OFAC, FBI, SEC, FSA, J-FSA, MAS, BAFin etc is a wonder to behold and keeps a lot of database admins and Compliance people in work…….

  50. avatar
    Pastor Charmley May 16, 2012 at 10:37 am #

    Oh, and one might say, “Well, people with unusual names would spell them out.” No, we don’t always, partly because it’s my name, I don’t think it’s that odd. Says he who was once, as a student, accidentally taken for a girl on the basis of my first name. Which is hilarious, but the person in question had never seen me.

  51. avatar
    Rickey May 16, 2012 at 10:46 am #

    don wilkie:
    doc, its a bit of a cop out not to inform your followers that Obama Sr. during his time in Hawaii only used the 1934 DOB.

    You don’t know that to be a fact, because you haven’t seen every document that he signed and you have no idea what he told his friends and acquaintances in Hawaii about his age. You only know what the documents in his immigration file show.

    Using Occam’s razor, my theory is that he believed that he was born in 1936 but his passport said 1934, so he generally used 1934 on his official documents. The discrepancy obviously did not bother immigration officials.

    Besides, the same immigration records which show both dates of birth also show that the President was born in Honolulu on August 4, 1961. There is an age requirement to be President, but there is no age requirement to be the President’s father.

  52. avatar
    fava May 16, 2012 at 10:48 am #

    gorefan: Is it possible that Obama Sr. lied to the 18 year old Stanley Ann and knocked a couple of years off his age?

    You mean like John McCain did when courting his much younger wife?

  53. avatar
    donna May 16, 2012 at 10:48 am #

    i have a copy of the birth certificate of a family member from ny which indicates that the father was 33 when he was actually 40 and the mother is listed as 18 when she was actually 16

    the parents filled out that information and probably didn’t want people to know their true ages

  54. avatar
    Woodrowfan May 16, 2012 at 10:58 am #

    FWIW, I had a student who had the last name “Unk” on all her records and that’s what it said on her diploma. She didn’t have a last name (not all cultures do) and it was supposed to be short for “Unknown.”

  55. avatar
    donna May 16, 2012 at 10:59 am #

    Batty ‘Birther’ Movie Divides Conspiracy Diehards

    The film is produced by Highway 61 Entertainment, the same company behind “Farewell Israel,” “Atomic Jihad” and the mockumentaries “Elvis Found Alive” and “Paul McCartney Really Is Dead.” Director Joel Gilbert, who has spoken at the annual Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC), writes columns for FamilySecurityMatters.org, a website run by Frank Gaffney’s Center for Security Policy.

    The film has been favorably reviewed by WND’s Jerome R. Corsi

    http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/05/obama_birther_movie_dreams_from_my_real_father.php

  56. avatar
    don wilkie May 16, 2012 at 11:05 am #

    Rickey: You don’t know that to be a fact, because you haven’t seen every document that he signed and you have no idea what he told his friends and acquaintances in Hawaii about his age. You only know what the documents in his immigration file show.

    Rickey…ya got me! brilliant reasoning!

  57. avatar
    y_p_w May 16, 2012 at 11:08 am #

    gorefan: Talk about level of strangeness check out this BC,

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ag4U35aNZII/TU3K6qGaRgI/AAAAAAAAGOg/tGvtprphRG0/s1600/rrbc.jpg

    The doctor and state registrar didn’t get around to signing it until 31 years after the birth.

    Very suspicious. hmmmm

    Or this one:

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef0133f2d3f5d2970b-pi

    States the evidence for a delayed birth certificate is “Oral Evidence”.

  58. avatar
    Rickey May 16, 2012 at 11:13 am #

    donna:
    Batty ‘Birther’ Movie Divides Conspiracy Diehards

    And to think that they had just about convinced me that Obama’s real father was Malcolm X. (snark)

    Incidentally, author David Maraniss was given a different explanation for Stanley Ann Dunham’s first name by a relative:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-44th-president-was-his-mothers-son/2012/05/11/gIQA6NV1IU_story.html

  59. avatar
    gorefan May 16, 2012 at 11:21 am #

    y_p_w: States the evidence for a delayed birth certificate is “Oral Evidence”.

    And it needed a court order.

  60. avatar
    y_p_w May 16, 2012 at 11:23 am #

    don wilkie: Your contention that Ann as the “Informant” gave the wrong age for her husband is certainly possible. All i’m saying is that it adds a level of strangeness that doesn’t need to be there, how many wives don’t know the age of their husbands?

    I remember the Suri Cruise birth certificate. It was full of strangeness that some people pointed to as signs that Tom Cruise didn’t actually father her. There were rumors that she was adopted, Katie Holmes was faking a pregnancy, and the “anomalies” were signs of the ruse.

    http://cdn.digitalcity.com/tmz_documents/cruise_bc_8_5.pdf

    Here were some of the conspiracy theories:

    http://community.parentingweekly.com/parenting/forums/t/1284246.aspx
    http://www.popsugar.com/Suris-Birth-Certificate-Plot-Thickens-10541

    Apparently what happened was that a certifier (a hospital administrator) signed it rather than the attending physician. Also the doctor’s license was entered when it should be the certifier’s (the same happened with my kid’s California BC). The date of the signing was more than two weeks after the birth (legal but suspicious to conspiracy theorists). The “Informant’s name” can’t be made out and it’s not printed anywhere; the description is “FRIEND”. Some found it odd that her name was spelled out completely. Then there’s Tom Cruise’s name as “Thomas Cruise” when his birth name was “Thomas Cruise Mapother IV”.

  61. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 16, 2012 at 11:38 am #

    don wilkie: how many wives don’t know the age of their husbands?

    My mother, for one. She never could remember my dad’s age.

    What does that mean, Don????

  62. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 16, 2012 at 11:43 am #

    James M: I once got my own age wrong, when I wasn’t sure if I was 46 or 47

    After I passed 40 I stopped worrying about age and, as a result, always had to take a moment or two to calculate my age…..never could just come up with it off the top of my mind.

    That is until recently…….ever since Social Security sent me my Medicare card I have no problem rememering I will be 65 next month.

  63. avatar
    Rickey May 16, 2012 at 12:26 pm #

    Majority Will: And birther bigots get all giggly and giddy (and spam post their magical findings across the intarwebs) when they think they have the “smoking gun”.

    Last year Wilkie was promoting the theory that Stanley Ann Dunham abandoned Barack Obama Sr., rather than the other way around.

    http://www.thetimesherald.com/article/20110116/OPINION02/101160314/Mike-Connell-Don-Wilkie-says-Obama-s-father-got-bad-rap

    It is no more than a guess, but Wilkie said he suspects the official birth certificate contains a bombshell — some detail that would call the president’s official biography into question and expose a cover-up.

    Apparently the fact that Obama Sr.’s age is listed as 25 on the birth certificate is Wilkie’s “bombshell.”

  64. avatar
    thisoldhippie May 16, 2012 at 12:39 pm #

    My ex-husband’s aunt thought her name was “Martha Lees” and that was what she went by, was registered at school with, etc. At age 16 she wanted her driver’s license and had to have a copy of her birth certificate. That’s when she found out her name was “Margaret Louise.” No one had bothered to tell her that another sibling had not been able to pronounce her name and that’s how it got changed.

  65. avatar
    linda May 16, 2012 at 12:52 pm #

    SAD was born in Kansas, but her family moved to CA, then to Ponca City, OK in 1948, where the 5 years 9 months SAD started first grade. NOT KANSAS.

    The Dunhams moved to Hawaii after SAD’s graduation in 1960 and she enrolled in the University of Hawaii Manoa, where she met BO,sr. The University lists them both as alumni, and the school paper tells the story the SAD meeting BO,sr, their first African student.
    http://manoa.hawaii.edu/about/
    http://www.hawaii.edu/malamalama/2009/01/lessons-for-president-obama/

    don wilkie: But does that lead anyone to the logical conclusion that Obama Sr. was not in Hawaii? i’m not sure why you said that as it is a total nonsequitar.

    The email in the article says “But not important as those items were made by a different typewriter than the main body and thus ALTERED meaning Barrack Obama never attended the University of Hawaii and probably never stepped foot on the Islands of Hawaii. Same goes for ‘Barack Obama’ who never legally had even the mispelled (sic)Barack name.” But you are right there, it makes no sense.

    “The alleged birthdate of August 4, 1961 is a sure sign that the document is forged. Obama is at least 10 years older than that birthdate implies.” Now that is just plain cuckoo. The author claims SAD was too young to have graduated from high school or started college at 17, but she could have given birth at 8?

    None of that matters, anyway. Even if the spelling and birth date are incorrect for his father on Barack Obama’s birth certificate, how does that effect his eligibility? The important thing is it says he was born in Hawaii. Geez!

  66. avatar
    Bob May 16, 2012 at 1:00 pm #

    I worked at a dental office and saw an information sheet a woman filled out for her son. It said:

    Name: John Smith
    Likes to be called: yes

  67. avatar
    Scientist May 16, 2012 at 1:04 pm #

    Bob: I worked at a dental office and saw an information sheet a woman filled out for her son. It said:
    Name: John Smith
    Likes to be called: yes

    Found on a college application:

    Parents’ names: Mommy and Daddy

  68. avatar
    Thomas Brown May 16, 2012 at 1:12 pm #

    Majority Will: It’s obvious you’ve completely missed the point. How very SAD.

    Oh, not at all. In fact, I find Don Wilke to be one of the funniest clowns that ever popped in here. I doubt he’s even real… nobody could be so simultaneously fatuous, glib, smug, ignorant and arrogant. But as a comedian…. he’s priceless.

  69. avatar
    katahdin May 16, 2012 at 1:23 pm #

    I dated my ex-husband for two years before I discovered that he was two years older than he had told me. He was significantly older than I, so he lied about his age. Barack Sr probably did the same with the much younger Stanley Ann. It doesn’t constitute evidence of fraud, merely vanity.

    don wilkie:
    doc,
    just for the sake of clarity, i think it behooves you to acknowledge that for the entire time Obama Sr. was in Hawaii, he listed his birth date as 6/18/1934.this was also his date of birth on his visa that allowed him to come to america and although we have not seenhis passport, it is inconceivable that this was not the date on the passport.Sr. was 27 when Jr. was born, so the birth certificate is suspect. not saying its wrong, just suspect.

  70. avatar
    jayHG May 16, 2012 at 1:35 pm #

    Pastor Charmley: I have a first name with an unusual spelling which is often mis-spelled, despite being English. How much more must that be true for a man with a foreign name? Especially given that there is an English word ‘Barrack’ that sounds the same. It is thoroughly ridiculous to say that because there is variation in spelling a name, that means that documents containing the mis-spelling mus be fake.It happens that I grew up in a village with two variant names (a village in England, mind you). Again, are we to say that because I spell the village name with one ‘M’, I never lived there because the road sign uses two? I think not. Spelling variation happens, especially when you are moving from one language to another.Again, I entered an institution called University College Chester, and graduated from Chester College. Does this mean anything? Yes, the name changed the year after I started. My old college ID card has ‘University College Chester’ on it.I imagine that people could have great fun with me over these facts: My first name is spelled differently in various documents including school registers and records. The village where I grew up is variously spelled. While I claim to have studied at Chester College, my old College ID card reads ‘University College Chester’. Surely this means I’ve falsified something.No, I just have a name that people don’t know how to spell, lived in a village where the spelling has not yet been finalized, and went to a college that changed its name while I studied there. Stuff happens.

    Are you a white person? If so, don’t worry about it……..in birther world, none of that means anything. You’re good!!

  71. avatar
    Horus May 16, 2012 at 1:38 pm #

    “As her birthstate Kansas has a school attendance cutoff date of August 31th, her high school class was Class of 1961 so she was in attendance at a Washington state high school, Mercer Island High School, on the alleged conception date NOT IN HAWAII.”

    So that makes him more American doesn’t it?
    Being born in the Lower 48?

  72. avatar
    jayHG May 16, 2012 at 1:49 pm #

    don wilkie: Rickey…ya got me! brilliant reasoning!

    Everybody’s got you……..you’re just too stupid to know it.

  73. avatar
    Rickey May 16, 2012 at 2:19 pm #

    linda: .The author claims SAD was too young to have graduated from high school or started college at 17, but she could have given birth at 8?

    And her senior photo appears in the 1960 Mercer Island High School yearbook.

    http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&file_id=8897

    A friend of mine graduated high school in Wisconsin a month after his 17th birthday. He is exceptionally bright and skipped a grade in elementary school.

  74. avatar
    Stanislaw May 16, 2012 at 2:21 pm #

    linda:

    None of that matters, anyway.Even if the spelling and birth date are incorrect for his father on Barack Obama’s birth certificate, how does that effect his eligibility?The important thing is it says he was born in Hawaii.Geez!

    You have to forgive our new birther friend. He’s not smart enough to figure out that the rest of us are smarter than he is, and that we can see right through his irrelevant nonsense. I’m still waiting for the birthers to quote the article of the Constitution that that prohibits the father of a Presidential candidate from lying about his age.

  75. avatar
    Jim May 16, 2012 at 3:09 pm #

    James M: I once got my own age wrong, when I wasn’t sure if I was 46 or 47.Obviously I figured it out pretty quickly, but still, I had somehow convinced myself that I was 47 when I was only 46.My wife could easily get my age wrong because she would count the years between us but would not consider which side of the quarter we are on, so she could get it off by one year three months out of twelve.

    Heck, when we went to get our marriage certificate, my wife couldn’t remember what year SHE was born in. Good thing I remembered!!! 😀

  76. avatar
    sfjeff May 16, 2012 at 4:43 pm #

    Jim: Heck, when we went to get our marriage certificate, my wife couldn’t remember what year SHE was born in. Good thing I remembered!!!

    For reasons I won’t go into- my wife’s birthdate was off from what she thought it was until far into our marriage.

    Then she fixed it.

    If you were to look at documents signed by here over time you will see that she has given two distinct different birthdates for herself.

  77. avatar
    Majority Will May 16, 2012 at 5:00 pm #

    Thomas Brown: Oh, not at all.In fact, I find Don Wilke to be one of the funniest clowns that ever popped in here.I doubt he’s even real… nobody could be so simultaneously fatuous, glib, smug, ignorant and arrogant.But as a comedian…. he’s priceless.

    At least I threw in a brain teaser for the birther:

    “How very SAD.”

  78. avatar
    Thomas Brown May 16, 2012 at 5:51 pm #

    Majority Will: At least I threw in a brain teaser for the birther:

    “How very SAD.”

    I had forgotten he was raving about BHO’s mom. There are few things that push me from bemusement to revulsion in Birfoonery, but the vile stuff they say about the President’s mother is one of them.

  79. avatar
    misha May 16, 2012 at 6:26 pm #

    don wilkie: ya got me! brilliant reasoning!

    My brilliant reasoning leads me to believe your father is Wendell Willkie.

  80. avatar
    Thrifty May 16, 2012 at 6:31 pm #

    Reminds me of my boyhood days, when most video games didn’t have save states. You would have to write down a password for later use. This was easy enough when the passwords were entirely numerical (which was rare), but got to be a real pain when you had longer passwords with letters. I was always wondering “is that a ‘6’ or a lowercase ‘g’ ” and “is that the number ‘1’ or the letter ‘l’ “? What a mess.

    Loren: In pre-vital records days, it was downright COMMON for people’s ages and name-spellings to fluctuate across records. If you’ve done any Census research, you know that part of the challenge in locating records is in knowing the margin of error that the census taker might have had. People simply got stuff wrong, or changed it if they felt the inclination. Remember how Birthers themselves point to the age-fudging in Chester Arthur’s case?

  81. avatar
    misha May 16, 2012 at 6:41 pm #

    Thinker: Orly Taitz once submitted a pleading in which she spelled her name Orley. She was once issued a traffic ticket in Orange County under the name Obly. She recently called into a radio show in Indiana and used the name Lena. Why does she go by so many names?

    Because she suffers from multiple personality disorder.

  82. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 16, 2012 at 9:09 pm #

    That’s very unusual. The informant is almost always the mother, and if not the father, only rarely another family member. “Friend” is really unusual.

    y_p_w: The “Informant’s name” can’t be made out and it’s not printed anywhere; the description is “FRIEND”.

  83. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 16, 2012 at 9:13 pm #

    Well….
    My doctor asked me about the place where I worked. She said “what is ‘Computer Weenie'”? When I saw “employment” on the admission form, I thought “occupation.”

    Bob: I worked at a dental office and saw an information sheet a woman filled out for her son. It said

  84. avatar
    Lupin May 17, 2012 at 4:31 am #

    New birther delusion:

    http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/05/obama_birther_movie_dreams_from_my_real_father.php?ref=fpblg

    “Dreams From My Real Father,” a 97-minute film narrated by an Obama impersonator, weaves the narrative that Obama’s grandfather wasn’t a furniture salesman but an undercover CIA agent who convinced Barack Obama Sr. to marry his teenage daughter to hide the fact that she was impregnated by a 55-year-old communist named Frank Marshall Davis.

    The film has been favorably reviewed by Jerome Corsi even though it completely clobbers his erstwhile previous delusion.

    “Secret Muslim Kenyan” is what the government wants you to think!!!! BWA-HA-HA!

    In reality, Obama is the secret offspring of a communist; his grandpa was an undercover CIA agent; and he was sold off to Bill Ayers for indoctrination into how to someday be a secret communist president posing as a secret Muslim Kenyan president. BWA-HA-HA!

    The nefarious goal: to make the US health insurance system slightly less medieval. Mission accomplished. BWA-HA-HA!

  85. avatar
    The Magic M May 17, 2012 at 5:25 am #

    Lupin: to hide the fact that she was impregnated by a 55-year-old communist named Frank Marshall Davis

    Because communists knew that 50 years later they still would not have succeeded in taking control, so their offspring would still have to hide any communist ancestry to become President? The fun never ends. 😉

  86. avatar
    Lupin May 17, 2012 at 5:29 am #

    The Magic M: Because communists knew that 50 years later they still would not have succeeded in taking control, so their offspring would still have to hide any communist ancestry to become President? The fun never ends.

    The only thing missing is the white cat.

  87. avatar
    misha May 17, 2012 at 7:37 am #

    Lupin: The only thing missing is the white cat.

    You beat me to it.

  88. avatar
    misha May 17, 2012 at 7:39 am #

    jayHG: Are you a white person? If so, don’t worry about it……..in birther world, none of that means anything. You’re good!!

    Double for a white person born in Mexico.

  89. avatar
    Black Lion May 17, 2012 at 7:53 am #

    Interesting article…

    http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/05/obama_birther_movie_dreams_from_my_real_father.php?ref=fpblg

    “Dreams From My Real Father,” a 97-minute film narrated by an Obama impersonator, weaves the narrative that Obama’s grandfather wasn’t a furniture salesman but an undercover CIA agent who convinced Barack Obama Sr. to marry his teenage daughter to hide the fact that she was impregnated by a 55-year-old communist named Frank Marshall Davis. […] The film has been favorably reviewed by WND’s Jerome R. Corsi, who wrote an entire book arguing that Obama’s birth certificate is a fake and that he was really born in Kenya and ineligible to be president of the United States.”