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Indicting Sheriff Joe and the Cold Case Posse

The charge

Sheriff Joe Arpaio and Mike Zullo are charged with fraud and fabricating evidence.

The crime scene

On July 17, Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio held a press conference featuring the results of an investigation by his volunteer “Cold Case Posse” presented by “lead investigator” Mike Zullo. The centerpiece of their presentation was a claim that President Obama’s birth certificate is a fake because of internal inconsistencies. The argument goes:

The race of Barack Obama’s father is shown as “African” on the birth certificate, but next to that is a penciled data entry code of “9” that should indicate “not stated.” The code is wrong, proving that the form is a fake.

In support of that very serious allegation they presented a race code table taken from what they described as a “1961 vital statistics instructions manual.” They lied. Here is a screen shot from the Cold Case Posse video of the purported 1961 manual.

image9

How do we know that they lied?

The US Public Health Service published Vital Statistics of the US – 1961 – Volume 1: Natality, a report of births in 1961 that’s available online.

image

In that report is stated on page 5-7:

Births in the United States in 1961 are classified for vital statistics into white, Negro, American Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Aleut, Eskimo, Hawaiian and Part-Hawaiian (combined), and "other nonwhite

Only the Cold Case Posse code table doesn’t have separate codes for Aleut and Eskimo and so it could not be the code table for 1961. Later on, the Natality Report includes  footnotes to table 4-2:

image_thumb[1][1]

This shows unambiguously that the real coding in 1961 distinguished between Indian, Aleut and Eskimo. The Cold Case Posse codes lump them all together and so could not be what was used for federal birth reporting in 1961. Whatever codes were really used in Hawaii in 1961, they are not the ones the Cold Case Posse claimed.

So where did the Posse’s bogus table come from?

It came from the 1968 manual, “The Natality File for Calendar Year 1968” available online from the US Government. Shown below is first the screen shot from the Cold Case Posse video and then an excerpt from the 1968 natality file manual. You will note from various dust spots and marks, that the two undoubtedly came from the same scan of the same source document.

Cold Case Posse code table

image9[4]

1968 Natality File manual

image_thumb2[1]

The Cold Case Posse showed a 1968 manual,  called it 1961, and based their case on it. They fabricated evidence.

What are the real codes from 1961?

Just days after President Obama released his long-form birth certificate, I filed a Freedom of Information Act request (number 11-00673) with the Department of Health and Human Services for the coding manual and received Tape File Information 1960-1961 Natality Tape Files for the United States in August of 2011. Here are the real 1961 race codes1 for birth data:

http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/image13.png

image_thumb2

I rest my case.

Update:

Further research shows that Hawaii used neither the fake 1961 code manual presented by the Cold Case Posse, nor the authentic federal code manual from 1961. Their codes were unique to Hawaii.


I rewrote the original article to be less rambling and to base the argument primarily from government sources rather than my FOIA document, so as to take my credibility out of the equation.

1The 1961 manual does not list race of the parents as part of the national tape file. One reasonably presumes that the same codes would be used for any race coded by Hawaii. Generally, fields that were not stated were coded “X.”

  • Farm Residence – X
  • Age of Father – X
  • Age of Mother – X
  • Nativity of Mother – 3
  • Children born dead – X
  • Children born alive – X
  • Attendant at birth – 4 (other or not specified)
  • Gestation Period – X
  • Weight at birth – X
  • Legitimacy – X
  • Congenital Malformations – X

, , ,

189 Responses to Indicting Sheriff Joe and the Cold Case Posse

  1. avatar
    Sam the Centipede July 21, 2012 at 9:28 am #

    I am most definitely not a lawyer, and I certainly agree that Zullo and Arpaio lied. I know they did, I saw their lips moving in the video of their dpg and pony show.

    But can you correctly call it fraud and fabricating evidence?

    For fraud, you have the requisite misrepresentation of material facts, but who are the victims who suffer particular loss as a result of relying on these lies? I guess you could say people who are duped into sending the donations or buying their books, perhaps. Arpaio says he wants Congress to pick up his pile of taitz (of course, that’s just a smokescreen for his own difficulties due to his bizarre and racist interpretation of his duties) but nobody would accept Congress as a victim in this. And anyway, it would be unreasonable for any member of Congress to claim they reasonably relied on such obvious nonsense.

    As for fabricating evidence, yes, they have done that in the informal sense, but I guess (yes, just a guess!) that it only becomes fabricated evidence in the legal sense when it is presented in a court.

    What do Real Lawyers (not Orlylawyers or gifted legal minds!) think? Is there criminal behavior in Zullo’s and Arpaio’s lies at the dog and pony show, or in their defamation of Hawaii’s administration?

    What will stop these bigots?

    P.S. Excellent slicing and dicing Doc! I would hate to fall foul of your investigative rapier.

  2. avatar
    Chef July 21, 2012 at 9:33 am #

    Hmmm… Maybe you should testify at the congressional investigation…

    Let us know when you figure out who scammed it.

  3. avatar
    john July 21, 2012 at 9:47 am #

    Doc C was not able to get the 1961 Code Book. The Cold Case Posse has the code book after it took months of inquiry. The Cold Case Posse further confirmed their findings with Verna Lee, the registar who signed BCs at the time. Finally I must point out that Doc C’ findings are simply incomplete due to Doc C’s own admissions.

    Limitations of the methodology

    There are a number of cautions that should be stated prior to decoding the data from the form:

    We do not have any documentation from the State of Hawaii as to what instructions were given to form coders in 1961, and whether such instructions were consistent with NCHS documentation.
    We do not know that coding done on every birth certificate conformed to official instructions; that is, people make mistakes.
    We do not know whether the keying instructions provided to the states conforms to the final tape layout of the national file. We know, for example, that New York’s race data was re-coded by the NCHS before inclusion in the national tape (discussion of this later).
    We do not know if more detailed instructions from the NCHS for coders found in Parts II-a and II-b of the Vital Statistics Instruction Manual would change our interpretation and use of the NTFUS.

    Because Doc C does not know how the code book was actually implementated or practiced in Hawaii….

    Doc C’s conclusions are mere speculation and innuendo.

    EPIC FAIL Doc C.!

  4. avatar
    john July 21, 2012 at 9:48 am #

    Doc C has also offer absolutely no explanation on why box 12B regarding kind of business or industry would have a code of 9. The Nordyke twins have a code of 1.

  5. avatar
    john July 21, 2012 at 9:56 am #

    Apparently whatever Doc C got in his FOIA appears to be in conflict or consistent on how the codes in Hawaii were implementated in 1961. Dr. Corsi was able to actually get the 1961 code book and according to that code book, code 9 meant “Not Stated”. Listen more here.
    http://www.khow.com/cc-common/podcast/single_page.html?more_page=1&podcast=fullshow_boyles&selected_podcast=07182012peter8am_1342623426_13244.mp3

  6. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 21, 2012 at 10:13 am #

    While I would certainly be willing to do that, it would be more appropriate in a Congressional hearing for someone from the National Center for Health Statistics to present this information.

    Chef: Hmmm… Maybe you should testify at the congressional investigation

  7. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 21, 2012 at 10:17 am #

    The indictment is to be heard in the court of public opinion, and the terms are taken from their common (not legal) usage. I don’t know if any law was actually broken — perhaps misuse of pubic funds, since the press conference was held in a public facility and introduced by a public employee.

    Sam the Centipede: But can you correctly call it fraud and fabricating evidence?

  8. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 21, 2012 at 10:23 am #

    I have proved conclusively and without any doubt that the Cold Case Posse lied about the code book. You say that Corsi has the real manual, but if he does, it is not what the Posse showed.

    There is no speculation or innuendo in the article’s conclusion that the Cold Case Posse lied and used a fake image that they represented was from a 1961 publication.

    It doesn’t matter what Hawaii did; the video Zullo presented lied.

    john: Because Doc C does not know how the code book was actually implementated or practiced in Hawaii….

    Doc C’s conclusions are mere speculation and innuendo

  9. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 21, 2012 at 10:24 am #

    Corsi is lying.

    john: Dr. Corsi was able to actually get the 1961 code book and according to that code book, code 9 meant “Not Stated”.

  10. avatar
    john July 21, 2012 at 10:28 am #

    Then prove Corsi doesn’t have the 1961 Code Book. oops! You don’t have a direct and tangible interest in the investigation so you are just going to have to trust Dr. Corsi.

  11. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 21, 2012 at 10:28 am #

    What precisely is there to explain? I don’t need to explain everything. Hawaii has verified the entire certificate. YOU have to explain why there is something wrong, and you aren’t allowed to make up fake code tables like Zullo did!

    john: Doc C has also offer absolutely no explanation on why box 12B regarding kind of business or industry would have a code of 9. The Nordyke twins have a code of 1.

  12. avatar
    richCares July 21, 2012 at 10:36 am #

    it really bugs poor john that the latest presser failed. Biferstan is all a buzz, poor fellas.
    .
    as for CHEF,”Let us know when you figure out who scammed it.”, it was the plumber as the butler died. The only people scammed are birthers, click that pay pal. One thing that will never happen, a WND birther article without a pay pal nearby. (scammed)

  13. avatar
    Keith July 21, 2012 at 10:38 am #

    john:
    Doc C has also offer absolutely no explanation on why box 12B regarding kind of business or industry would have a code of 9.The Nordyke twins have a code of 1.

    So what? Are you implying that the Nordyke twins parents were in the same type of business Obama’s parents? From where do you get that information and what relevance is it to anything what-so-ever?

    Just for your information, the Nordyke’s father is listed on their birth certificate as a Doctor in Private Practice. Obama’s father is listed as a Student in University. Do you need any further justification about why the codes are different? Would you really expect “Private Practice” to have the same code as “University”?

    The Feds coding instructions don’t cover coding codes for the parents occupation because they didn’t require that data be sent to them. Hawai’i collected it anyway, so the coding instructions for that particular field will be in Hawai’i documents, not Federal Documents. Fields that the Feds wanted reported use the Federal specification because it made no sense whatever to enter it under one code set and then translate it to another code set for the report to the Feds.

  14. avatar
    foreigner July 21, 2012 at 10:41 am #

    did Zullo really know about this all ? I think he just has what Corsi told him.
    They did present the wrong codes in the presentation video.
    Zullo did claim that the pencil mark in field 9 in Obama’s LFBC
    did refer to federal codes, not Hawaii codes.
    Well, maybe his research was bad and he didn’t know it better.
    Was it intentional ?
    I don’t think so. They would have anticipated, that someone
    would figure it out , with all the Obots around there in internet …

  15. avatar
    john July 21, 2012 at 10:43 am #

    Because Sheriff Joe has proven the on-line PDF is a forgery from more than 7 ways to Sunday, Hawaii’s Credibility in destroyed and they can never been trusted. The only way Hawaii can regain credibility is by releasing the original BC or the microfilm for forensic testing. I will tell you why. Hawaii can now issue 1000 verifications and they not the worth the paper they are written on.

    Obots says that analyse of the on-line PDF is irrelevant because the original has not been seen. This is bogus.

    Mark Zullo says that only Hawaii has the power to issue BCs. This is absolutely true.

    Mark Zullo says they can go into a court of law and the BC would never be accepted, even if Obama produced a hard copy. This is absolutely true.

    Hawaii can produce a 1000 verifications or press releases stating that Obama was born in Hawaii or that his BC is legit.

    They are not credible.

    Post this and I will tell you why Doc.

  16. avatar
    foreigner July 21, 2012 at 10:45 am #

    Keith: So what? Are you implying that the Nordyke twins parents were in the same type of business Obama’s parents? From where do you get that information and what relevance is it to anything what-so-ever? Just for your information, the Nordyke’s father is listed on their birth certificate as a Doctor. Obama’s father is listed as a Student. Do you need any further justification about why the codes are different?The Feds coding instructions don’t cover coding codes for the parents occupation because they didn’t require that data be sent to them. Hawai’i collected it anyway, so the coding instructions for that particular field will be in Hawai’i documents, not Federal Documents. Fields that the Feds wanted reported use the Federal specification because it made no sense whatever to enter it under one code set and then translate it to another code set for the report to the Feds.

    but the feds did their own coding, reportedly based on the microfilm copies that
    the states sent to them. Nowhere is reported that Hawaii sent them their codes or tapes.

  17. avatar
    richCares July 21, 2012 at 10:46 am #

    FogBow’s debunking on the silly presser.
    http://www.thefogbow.com/special-reports/arpaio-2-in-2d-the-shock-of-zullo/
    .
    Conclusion, Zulu is a lying sack of shinola!

  18. avatar
    john July 21, 2012 at 10:51 am #

    Sheriff Joe has presented his case that on-line PDF is a forgery. Hawaii has not produced one ounce of refutement to this claim. Hawaii has not produced one shred of evidence that refutes Arpaio’s findings.

    What Hawaii has produced is their word or verification that on-line PDF matches their records and is legit.

    There is a problem with this and Hawaii is now guilty of purpretuating a fraud. I will explain soon.

    Hawaii’s own verification of the on-line PDF underminds their credibility. I will explain soon.

  19. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 21, 2012 at 10:52 am #

    I cannot fathom how they could take a document labeled 1968 and unintentionally say it was from 1961.

    I don’t believe that they knew what the real 1961 codes were. They may well have believed that the 1968 codes were applicable. As you say, if they knew better, they would expect the fallacy to be discovered. However, that’s not the point. They didn’t have the information, so they made it up and lied about it.

    The lie is not that “code 9 is ‘not stated.'” The lie is “we are showing you the 1961 vital statistics instruction manual.”

    foreigner: Was it intentional ?
    I don’t think so. They would have anticipated, that someone
    would figure it out , with all the Obots around there in internet …

  20. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 21, 2012 at 10:54 am #

    I’m sorry, but that is not the case. Footnote 4, reproduced above states that the STATES (except for New York) ALL used Code 9 for “other nonwhite.”

    foreigner: but the feds did their own coding, reportedly based on the microfilm copies that
    the states sent to them. Nowhere is reported that Hawaii sent them their codes or tapes.

  21. avatar
    Jim July 21, 2012 at 10:57 am #

    foreigner: but the feds did their own coding, reportedly based on the microfilm copies that
    the states sent to them. Nowhere is reported that Hawaii sent them their codes or tapes.

    “The statistics for the total United States in 1961 include
    Alaska, which became a State in 1959, and Hawaii, which
    became a State in 1960.”

    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsus/vsus_1961_1.pdf

    Took me all of 1 minute to find out that yes, Hawaii did send their data to the Federal Government. Don’t you feel silly making these kinds of statements and being EASILY proved wrong?

  22. avatar
    donna July 21, 2012 at 10:58 am #

    john:

    arpaio called on congress to act YET REPUBLICANS from AZ want nothing to do with this

    3TV reached out to both Senators John McCain (R) Arizona and Jon Kyl (R) Arizona, as well as at least six U.S. Representatives from Arizona, but none of them wanted to comment on the MCSO “birther” findings.

    “The joke’s really on the taxpayers and the people who keep putting this guy into office,” said Grant Woods, a former REPUBLICAN Arizona Attorney General. “But once again this is an embarrassment to this country coming out of Arizona.”

    Secretary of State Ken Bennett is a republican and romney’s az co-chair

    On Tuesday, Bennett’s spokesman, Matt Roberts, declined 3TV’s request for a statement and said only that Bennett was “out of town, unavailable and does not have any plans to take action.”

    As for Governor Jan Brewer, in 2011 she told CNN the “birther” issue is “just something I believe is leading our country down a path of destruction and it just is not serving any good.”

    Her spokesman, Matt Benson, said her position on the issue has not changed.

  23. avatar
    john July 21, 2012 at 10:59 am #

    OK, Here it goes. Hawaii is undoubtly guilty of purpretrating fraud. Here is the proof:

    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html

    Please note the first line on this webpage and the link.

    “On April 27, 2011 President Barack Obama posted a certified copy of his original Certificate of Live Birth.
    For information go to http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate

    The State Hawaii is claiming the the on-line PDF IS Obama’s original birth certificate.

    Sheriff Joe has proven this to be a fraud.

    By placing this forgery on its own website, Hawaii is guilty of purpretrating a fraud and it undermines their own credibility to give an verifications of the birth certificate.

    Hawaii can only recover by producing the original BC or microfilm for forensic testing or by producing evidence that directly refutes Arpaio’s findings. Hawaii has done neither.

  24. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 21, 2012 at 11:00 am #

    Only in the minds of conspiracy theorist birthers, John, not to anyone else. Now we’ve caught them in a deliberate lie. Kinda calls into question all the other claims they have made without supporting details, names and evidence.

    When you look back at the CCP reports, you just about have to take everything on faith. The video analysis of the bits and bytes in the long form were thoroughly discredited by John Woodman and many others. Their claims to have consulted unnamed experts, and their characterizations of what other anonymous people said cannot be fact checked. Now we found out that the lied. With their integrity in tatters, all of their other proofs fall because it was always based on their word and the auspices of the Sheriff’s office.

    john: Because Sheriff Joe has proven the on-line PDF is a forgery from more than 7 ways to Sunday

  25. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 21, 2012 at 11:04 am #

    Why hasn’t WorldNetDaily responded to this revelation?

  26. avatar
    john July 21, 2012 at 11:05 am #

    Because it’s not true Doc C.

  27. avatar
    john July 21, 2012 at 11:10 am #

    Why hasn’t Obama responded to Sheriff Arpaio’s investigation?

  28. avatar
    richCares July 21, 2012 at 11:18 am #

    john says “Hawaii’s own verification of the on-line PDF underminds their credibility. I will
    explain soon.”
    .
    Now I need a new keyboard, couldn’t stop laughing. Calling john an idiot is actually a complement.

  29. avatar
    foreigner July 21, 2012 at 11:22 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I cannot fathom how they could take a document labeled 1968 and unintentionally say it was from 1961.I don’t believe that they knew what the real 1961 codes were. They may well have believed that the 1968 codes were applicable. As you say, if they knew better, they would expect the fallacy to be discovered. However, that’s not the point. They didn’t have the information, so they made it up and lied about it.The lie is not that “code 9 is ‘not stated.’” The lie is “we are showing you the 1961 vital statistics instruction manual.”

    didn’t you say the daily pen (or such) did it ?
    So maybe Corsi-Zullu-Arpaio just blindly relied on it

  30. avatar
    neonzx July 21, 2012 at 11:25 am #

    Because they’ve got nothing to respond with. They’ll stay silent hoping as few people (and real journalists) find out the truth about their political theater production.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Why hasn’t WorldNetDaily responded to this revelation?

  31. avatar
    john July 21, 2012 at 11:28 am #

    Despite Doc C’s claim that his obot experts say they need to see the original to make any conclusion of forgery, he have seen that this just isn’t true. When only need to prove the PDF BC (Not the Savanna Gutherie BC) is a forgery and this completely undermines Hawaii.

    This is because Hawaii is stating ON THE RECORD that the PDF BIRTH CERTIFICATE on the White House Server is Obama’s original birth certificate.

    Sheriff Apraio is the only OFFICIAL investigative body that has looked at the PDF and Sheriff Joe has deemed it a forgery.

    Hawaii, DOJ, FBI, or no other investigative official body has produced any evidence to refute Sheriff Apraio’s findings.

    Therefore, in conclusion, Hawaii is guilty of purpretrating a fraud and their credibility has severely been compromised.

  32. avatar
    foreigner July 21, 2012 at 11:31 am #

    >> but the feds did their own coding, reportedly based on the microfilm copies that
    >> the states sent to them. Nowhere is reported that Hawaii sent them their codes or tapes.
    > I’m sorry, but that is not the case. Footnote 4, reproduced above states that the STATES
    > (except for New York) ALL used Code 9 for “other nonwhite.”

    it doesn’t say that. As I understand footnote 4, it refers to the national coding,
    the feds did recode it so it becomes conform.
    But even if the States did it, it would not invalidate what I had written.

  33. avatar
    Loren July 21, 2012 at 11:33 am #

    john:
    Then prove Corsi doesn’t have the 1961 Code Book.oops!You don’t have a direct and tangible interest in the investigation so you are just going to have to trust Dr. Corsi.

    Yep, because that’s how *real* investigations work:

    “There has been some skepticism about our choice to call a press conference to announce that we found certain incriminating documents. And we admit that we haven’t shared those documents, and that at the press conference we actually showed *other* documents which we falsely said were the incriminating ones, and that we have no plans to rectify this error.

    “But in response to our critics who say that our unnecessary obfuscation suggests that we haven’t actually found anything, we say: let’s see you prove we didn’t.”

  34. avatar
    foreigner July 21, 2012 at 11:34 am #

    Jim: “The statistics for the total United States in 1961 includeAlaska, which became a State in 1959, and Hawaii, whichbecame a State in 1960.”http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsus/vsus_1961_1.pdfTook me all of 1 minute to find out that yes, Hawaii did send their data to the Federal Government. Don’t you feel silly making these kinds of statements and being EASILY proved wrong?

    they sent their microfilm copies of the certificates and the feds examined those.
    I don’t see that they sent their data in computer-readable form

  35. avatar
    Arthur July 21, 2012 at 11:35 am #

    richCares: Now I need a new keyboard, couldn’t stop laughing. Calling john an idiot is actually a complement.

    Yes, john’s absurd equivocations are hilarious. He’s like a member of a doomsday cult trying to explain why the earth didn’t end on the day his leader said it would.

    Keep commenting, john! Your relentless delusions are textbook.

  36. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 21, 2012 at 11:39 am #

    Spamming the Internet.

    This morning, I did something I don’t usually do. I cut and pasted a comment on half a dozen major Internet sites on articles dealing with the Cold Case Posse press conference. I wrote:

    The faked document in this case is not Obama’s birth certificate; it ‘s the race code table that Zullo presented as the “1961 vital statistics instruction manual.” In fact, what he showed was the 1968 table, and the codes are different. They fabricated evidence and lied about it. This is fully documented from government documents in my article at:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/07/indicting-the-sheriff-joe-and-the-cold-case-posse

    Expect some blog back in comments here.

  37. avatar
    foreigner July 21, 2012 at 11:39 am #

    john: OK, Here it goes. Hawaii is undoubtly guilty of purpretrating fraud. Here is the proof:http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.htmlPlease note the first line on this webpage and the link.“On April 27, 2011 President Barack Obama posted a certified copy of his original Certificate of Live Birth.For information go to http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificateThe State Hawaii is claiming the the on-line PDF IS Obama’s original birth certificate.Sheriff Joe has proven this to be a fraud.By placing this forgery on its own website, Hawaii is guilty of purpretrating a fraud and it undermines their own credibility to give an verifications of the birth certificate.Hawaii can only recover by producing the original BC or microfilm for forensic testing or by producing evidence that directly refutes Arpaio’s findings. Hawaii has done neither.

    it could be a “fraud” but the information contained in it still
    matches what Hawaii has

  38. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 21, 2012 at 11:43 am #

    You can tell that John is definitely squirming this time by the number and frequency of his comments, but there’s no escaping the evidence.

    What I don’t know is whether this out-and-out fraud from the forefront of the birther movement will finally topple their house of cards, or be relegated to the bottom of the pile of other evidence against them.

    Unfortunately, my article is late for the news cycle.

    Arthur: Yes, john’s absurd equivocations are hilarious. He’s like a member of a doomsday cult trying to explain why the earth didn’t end on the day his leader said it would.

  39. avatar
    Jim July 21, 2012 at 11:48 am #

    foreigner: they sent their microfilm copies of the certificates and the feds examined those.
    I don’t see that they sent their data in computer-readable form

    Interesting, so you’re saying that the States spent all that time entering all that data so that the US government would then have to look at each and every BC in the US to put together the statistics? Is “Stupid” your middle name?

  40. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 21, 2012 at 11:49 am #

    john: Mark Zullo says…..

    It’s Mike Zullo, John…….not Mark.

  41. avatar
    john July 21, 2012 at 11:53 am #

    Mark Zullo has explained that some of the videos were fast paced and were meant be to watched over and over again. I think the “lie” Doc C refers to is really a “mistake” designed for expediency purposes. The videos were produced by Mark Gillar and were designed to convey the Cold Case Posse’s finding in a way that be easily understood. The material present on the video might not necessarily represent the true evidence that CCP has but conveys it in way that easy to understand. In other words, the videos are meant to simply the evidence rather showing the complicated nuisances of the evidence. I think that the 1961/1968 swap seen on the video was really a mistake made for expediency purposes and it no way a lie as Doc C is simply not privy to the fact of the case.

  42. avatar
    Lupin July 21, 2012 at 11:56 am #

    Jerome Corsi is a proven liar and fabricator of false information (in re the so-called “Swift Boat” matter).

    It stands to reason that he would continue to do so.

    As for “john”, when I called him “autistic” a few days ago, I didn’t realize I was so close to the truth.

  43. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 21, 2012 at 12:00 pm #

    The codes presented on the screen could not have been used in 1961, no matter where they came from because the breakdowns are wrong and don’t match the 1961 statistical report. The value of the codes are central to the whole Cold Case Posse contention of internal inconsistency in the birth certificate.

    You can keep squirming and trying to ameliorate what happened, but in the end, the Cold Case Posse presentation was bogus.

    It can’t be an honest mistake because if they had the real codes, they knew their whole case was a fraud, not just that the evidence was fabricated.

    john: I think that the 1961/1968 swap seen on the video was really a mistake made for expediency purposes and it no way a lie as Doc C is simply not privy to the fact of the case.

  44. avatar
    Rickey July 21, 2012 at 12:02 pm #

    foreigner:
    did Zullo really know about this all ? I think he just has what Corsi told him.
    They did present the wrong codes in the presentation video.
    Zullo did claim that the pencil mark in field 9 in Obama’s LFBC
    did refer to federal codes, not Hawaii codes.
    Well, maybe his research was bad and he didn’t know it better.
    Was it intentional ?
    I don’t think so. They would have anticipated, that someone
    would figure it out , with all the Obots around there in internet …

    It either was intent or incompetence. Either way, it reflects badly upon Arpaio and his “posse.”

  45. avatar
    richCares July 21, 2012 at 12:02 pm #

    “It’s Mike Zullo, John…….not Mark.”
    stop it, I have lost 3 keyboards because of john

  46. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 21, 2012 at 12:03 pm #

    john: The State Hawaii is claiming the the on-line PDF IS Obama’s original birth certificate.

    No, John, they’re claiming just what they said: “On April 27, 2011 President Barack Obama posted a certified copy of his original Certificate of Live Birth.”

    How does a cerftified copy become an “original birth certificate” in your mind?

  47. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 21, 2012 at 12:04 pm #

    Imaginary dialog between Zullo and somebody.

    Zullo: We’ve found this internal inconsistency in the Obama birth certificate. It’s HUGE! I have this government code table that shows the codes on Obama’s certificate are wrong.

    Somebody: Hey this book you showed me is for 1968, not 1961.

    Zullo: 1968 is the oldest book I can find. It’s sure to apply.

    Somebody: Yes, but if you say the book is from 1968, somebody will say “maybe the codes were different in 1961.”

    Zullo: Well just say the codes were from 1961. Nobody will know the difference, and since there aren’t any 1961 codes on the internet, nobody can prove we don’t have the right codes.

    Oh what a tangled web we weave…

  48. avatar
    Daniel July 21, 2012 at 12:04 pm #

    So John…. you birthers won any court cases with that crap you’re peddling as “proof”?

    No?

    Well then I guess the proof of the pudding is in the tasting, isn’t it?

  49. avatar
    Scientist July 21, 2012 at 12:08 pm #

    john: Why hasn’t Obama responded to Sheriff Arpaio’s investigation?

    Why would he? Arpaio has specifically said he is not accusing the President of anything.

  50. avatar
    Reality Check July 21, 2012 at 12:08 pm #

    I sounds like John is in full panic mode.

  51. avatar
    Scientist July 21, 2012 at 12:11 pm #

    john: Mark Zullo has explained that some of the videos were fast paced and were meant be to watched over and over again. I think the “lie” Doc C refers to is really a “mistake” designed for expediency purposes. The videos were produced by Mark Gillar and were designed to convey the Cold Case Posse’s finding in a way that be easily understood. The material present on the video might not necessarily represent the true evidence that CCP has but conveys it in way that easy to understand. In other words, the videos are meant to simply the evidence rather showing the complicated nuisances of the evidence. I think that the 1961/1968 swap seen on the video was really a mistake made for expediency purposes and it no way a lie as Doc C is simply not privy to the fact of the case.

    According to john, next time I am invited to speak at a scientifc meeting, I can present bogus data and then afterwards say I just did it to make my talk easier to understand (because the real data might be complicated). I’m sure my colleagues would accept that.

  52. avatar
    Rickey July 21, 2012 at 12:12 pm #

    Lupin:

    As for “john”, when I called him “autistic” a few days ago, I didn’t realize I was so close to the truth.

    We are witnessing the explosion of John’s head in real time.

  53. avatar
    john July 21, 2012 at 12:14 pm #

    The Code 9 interpretation came from the 1961 Code Book that Dr. Corsi was able to get after months of searching. Verna Lee confirmed their findings. I must point out that while Doc C’s FIOA says something different, I think we can assume that Hawaii may have done things differently than what the FIOA request indicates. Doc C concedes this fact:

    Limitations of the methodology

    There are a number of cautions that should be stated prior to decoding the data from the form:

    We do not have any documentation from the State of Hawaii as to what instructions were given to form coders in 1961, and whether such instructions were consistent with NCHS documentation.
    We do not know that coding done on every birth certificate conformed to official instructions; that is, people make mistakes.
    We do not know whether the keying instructions provided to the states conforms to the final tape layout of the national file. We know, for example, that New York’s race data was re-coded by the NCHS before inclusion in the national tape (discussion of this later).
    We do not know if more detailed instructions from the NCHS for coders found in Parts II-a and II-b of the Vital Statistics Instruction Manual would change our interpretation and use of the NTFUS.

    And again, I think the 1961/1968 Code Book screen capture was a “mistake” made for expediency purposes.

  54. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 21, 2012 at 12:16 pm #

    john: I think that the 1961/1968 swap seen on the video was really a mistake made for expediency purposes and it no way a lie as Doc C is simply not privy to the fact of the case.

    Wow!! You’re giving Lewis Carroll a run for the money, John, with your bizarre rationalizations.

  55. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 21, 2012 at 12:17 pm #

    richCares: stop it, I have lost 3 keyboards because of john

    Maybe Doc should start selling waterproof keyboard covers.

  56. avatar
    Arthur B. July 21, 2012 at 12:18 pm #

    Wow, John’s back-pedaling like crazy now. It’s really embarrassing.

  57. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG July 21, 2012 at 12:28 pm #

    It seems like John is in full meltdown mode.

  58. avatar
    john July 21, 2012 at 12:29 pm #

    Looking on the comments on the video, Doc C seems have gotten torn up by Mark Gillar.

  59. avatar
    john July 21, 2012 at 12:31 pm #

    Mark Gillar responded to Doc C.:

    “I spoke with Mike Zullo a short time ago. He assured me the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office received confirmation that the codes seen at the 33 second and 2:13 mark are reflective of the 1961 coding procedure. The error on the screen at the 2:00 minute has now been noted.”

  60. avatar
    bgansel9 July 21, 2012 at 12:45 pm #

    Keith: So what? Are you implying that the Nordyke twins parents were in the same type of business Obama’s parents? From where do you get that information and what relevance is it to anything what-so-ever?

    No, he’s implying that the profession of the Nordyke twins’ father was far superior to Obama’s father because Obama’s father was a 9 and not a 1, obviously. I guess john thinks the Nordyke twins should have run for public office.

    “john” is just trying to find more way to get his digs in against the duly elected (and eligible) sitting president, because he’s such a child. Obama hatred is a mental disease.

  61. avatar
    bgansel9 July 21, 2012 at 12:48 pm #

    john:
    Mark Gillar responded to Doc C.:

    “I spoke with Mike Zullo a short time ago. He assured me the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office received confirmation that the codes seen at the 33 second and 2:13 markare reflective of the 1961 coding procedure. The error on the screen at the 2:00 minute has now been noted.”

    So, what was that shocking revelation that Arpaio introduced you to during his most recent news conference, john?

  62. avatar
    foreigner July 21, 2012 at 12:49 pm #

    Jim,
    read section 5 of the 1961 Natality report
    it clearly states that they (feds) based their work on the
    microfilms of the original certificates received from the states.
    They don’t mention that they received any punchcards
    or tapes from the states.
    And they (feds) do then report in detail how they produced
    their own punchcards by employees and what the expected
    error-rate was (1%).

  63. avatar
    Northland10 July 21, 2012 at 1:09 pm #

    john: The material present on the video might not necessarily represent the true evidence that CCP has but conveys it in way that easy to understand.

    In other words, Zullo knows his followers are made up of morons and needs to put things in ways they will understand. So John, do you now see how the CCP really views you?

  64. avatar
    bgansel9 July 21, 2012 at 1:15 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: What I don’t know is whether this out-and-out fraud from the forefront of the birther movement will finally topple their house of cards

    I hate to break it to you Doc, but just like Balloon Juice finally figured out that peak wingnut doesn’t exist, neither does peak birther. We will have this crap with us long after Obama finishes his second term.

  65. avatar
    bgansel9 July 21, 2012 at 1:16 pm #

    Northland10: In other words, Zullo knows his followers are made up of morons and needs to put things in ways they will understand. So John, do you now see how the CCP really views you?

    After enough repetition, a lie can appear to become the truth.

  66. avatar
    Andy July 21, 2012 at 1:28 pm #

    john:
    The Code 9 interpretation came from the 1961 Code Book that Dr. Corsi was able to get after months of searching.Verna Lee confirmed their findings.I must point out that while Doc C’s FIOA says something different, I think we can assume that Hawaii may have done things differently than what the FIOA request indicates.Doc C concedes this fact:

    John – you make this statement, but have nothing to back it up. We have not seen Corsi’s “manual,” and have not heard the recording of Mrs. Lee. You are free to assume that those exist, but we HAVE seen what the Doc has posted, and it has been verified.

    You’d rather believe the CCP that doesn’t show any evidence, over people who freely give their evidence? It’s your choice, but in the real world, we use evidence to support statements, not just assume it on faith.

    So do you have ANY evidence to support your claims? Any?

  67. avatar
    Paper July 21, 2012 at 1:39 pm #

    Only if you smile that winning smile of yours!

    Scientist: According to john, next time I am invited to speak at a scientifc meeting, I can present bogus data and then afterwards say I just did it to make my talk easier to understand (because the real data might be complicated). I’m sure my colleagues would accept that.

  68. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG July 21, 2012 at 1:41 pm #

    Back up what you have to say John, or just sit down and go back to playing with your Duplo blocks and let the adults talk.

  69. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 21, 2012 at 2:08 pm #

    Thanks for pointing that out. This, of course, is consistent with the fact that Hawaii coded fields not on the Federal tapes.

    foreigner: read section 5 of the 1961 Natality report
    it clearly states that they (feds) based their work on the
    microfilms of the original certificates received from the states.

  70. avatar
    SluggoJD July 21, 2012 at 2:18 pm #

    john:
    Doc C was not able to get the 1961 Code Book.The Cold Case Posse has the code book after it took months of inquiry. The Cold Case Posse further confirmed their findings with Verna Lee, the registar who signed BCs at the time.Finally I must point out that Doc C’ findings are simply incomplete due to Doc C’s own admissions.

    Limitations of the methodology

    There are a number of cautions that should be stated prior to decoding the data from the form:

    We do not have any documentation from the State of Hawaii as to what instructions were given to form coders in 1961, and whether such instructions were consistent with NCHS documentation.
    We do not know that coding done on every birth certificate conformed to official instructions; that is, people make mistakes.
    We do not know whether the keying instructions provided to the states conforms to the final tape layout of the national file. We know, for example, that New York’s race data was re-coded by the NCHS before inclusion in the national tape (discussion of this later).
    We do not know if more detailed instructions from the NCHS for coders found in Parts II-a and II-b of the Vital Statistics Instruction Manual would change our interpretation and use of the NTFUS.

    Because Doc C does not know how the code book was actually implementated or practiced in Hawaii….

    Doc C’s conclusions are mere speculation and innuendo.

    EPIC FAIL Doc C.!

    Dr. C, please pull the plug on this lying piece of poop, once and for all.

  71. avatar
    nbc July 21, 2012 at 2:45 pm #

    Doc C’s conclusions are mere speculation and innuendo.

    Dr C has shown how the CCP when stating that the ‘9’ reflected federal codes as found in the 1961 codebook was in fact showing a 1968 code book. Noone has shown the mythical codebook other than Dr C who obtained it through a FOIA.

    Ask yourself: Why is the CCP refusing to show the actual document? Dr C has once again debunked the poor CCP’s ‘arguments’

    Hilarious. And fascinating how John is willing to believe almost anything that confirms his fear and ignorance without any logic or reason, or let alone facts.

    Ah the birther brain…

  72. avatar
    nbc July 21, 2012 at 2:46 pm #

    john: Doc C has also offer absolutely no explanation on why box 12B regarding kind of business or industry would have a code of 9. The Nordyke twins have a code of 1.

    Different business or industry encodes to different numbers. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

  73. avatar
    nbc July 21, 2012 at 2:47 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I have proved conclusively and without any doubt that the Cold Case Posse lied about the code book. You say that Corsi has the real manual, but if he does, it is not what the Posse showed.

    Very true Doc. So why is John still defending such obvious lies? I believe that answer is simple..

  74. avatar
    nbc July 21, 2012 at 2:48 pm #

    john: Then prove Corsi doesn’t have the 1961 Code Book. oops! You don’t have a direct and tangible interest in the investigation so you are just going to have to trust Dr. Corsi.

    He showed a 1968 document and a known fraudulent document. Ask yourself the simple question: Why does Corsi refuse to show the code book and lay it all to rest? I think you do know the answer, but it’s a little hard to accept that Doc C, once again exposed the CCP as clueless.

  75. avatar
    nbc July 21, 2012 at 2:50 pm #

    john: Mark Zullo says they can go into a court of law and the BC would never be accepted, even if Obama produced a hard copy. This is absolutely true.

    Then I am sure they will show up at Orly’s hearing in Indiana where they will be cross examined under oath?

    Sure John… So ask yourself, when they fail to show up, how credible do you really believe their position will be?

    Hilarious…

  76. avatar
    nbc July 21, 2012 at 2:53 pm #

    foreigner: They did present the wrong codes in the presentation video.
    Zullo did claim that the pencil mark in field 9 in Obama’s LFBC
    did refer to federal codes, not Hawaii codes.

    Yes, they clearly made these statements and they were totally misleading the viewer by showing a 1968 document.
    Now they claim they have the 1961 document but we already know that the real 1961 document shows ‘9’ to mean ‘other non-white’ and they have so far refused to release their 1961 document.

    The CCP has once again been caught with its pants down. John Woodman, Doctor Conspiracy and countless others have once again shown how there is just no support for the poor CCP’s position that does not arise out of ignorance.

    Anyone familiar with the research on the ‘conservative brain’ would understand why John’s responses are predictable. He know has ‘convinced’ himself that nothing will ever change his mind.

    Fascinating but educational.. Thanks John..

  77. avatar
    nbc July 21, 2012 at 2:56 pm #

    SluggoJD: Dr. C, please pull the plug on this lying piece of poop, once and for all.

    No No No, John is such a fascinating example of how some of the birthers will never accept any evidence that contradicts their beliefs. John has now ‘argued’ that nothing Hawaii will ever show, will convince him. Foolishly he extrapolates this to mean that no court will ever accept that Hawaiian birth certificate.

    Fascinating… John is a wonderful example of the ‘conservative mind’ and how it rejects conflicting arguments and will rather focus only on claims that supports its beliefs and rejects anything else, even when it requires one to invent ‘facts’.

    The virtual self destruction of John is fascinating to watch.

  78. avatar
    Arthur July 21, 2012 at 3:05 pm #

    nbc: Why does Corsi refuse to show the code book and lay it all to rest?

    For the same reason that the Wizard of Oz refused to step out from behind that curtain.

  79. avatar
    nbc July 21, 2012 at 3:05 pm #

    Andy: You’d rather believe the CCP that doesn’t show any evidence, over people who freely give their evidence? It’s your choice, but in the real world, we use evidence to support statements, not just assume it on faith.

    Yes, that’s one component of the ‘conservative mind’, it cannot easily handle contradicting information and will rather adhere to authoritarianism where the authority’s comments are believed without attempt to apply logic or reason, as this restores a sense of order in the ‘mind’.

    It’s quite a dangerous phenomenon that helps understand quite a few historical events and I find it fascinating how science has been slowly unraveling the mystery of the mind of those who are easily manipulated.

    In the world of many a birther, facts are less important than myths that support their fear and ignorance induced state of mind. Since the mind is not interested in exploring contradicting data, it will be reluctant to enrich itself with all known data and facts allowing one to make an argued evaluation, instead it will focus on authority to avoid having to deal with the conflicting data, especially when such data undermines one’s biased but strongly held position.

    It would not surprise me if the birther will soon become a standard example of this phenomenon. It has all the wonderful components empirical research has so far uncovered about the link between conservatism and the need for authority, lack of critical thinking skills and inability or unwillingness to evaluate conflicting data.

    I am thrilled myself how beautifully this is all playing out in full view.

    See for instance

    In this view, the moral system favored by conservatives appeals greatly to people who are fearful of change and prone to authoritarian thinking styles.

    So how deep do these personality traits go? A team of scientists from UCLA and NYU published the results of an experiment in Nature Neuroscience showing that self-identified conservative and liberal students displayed different cognitive behavior patterns in computer simulations. Thus, liberal students proved far more sensitive to cues for switching response patterns, whereas conservative students tended to filter out the cues as distracting information. They conclude that the cognitive styles of self-reported conservatives were more “structured and persistent,” whereas those of liberals showed “greater tolerance for conflict and ambiguity,” suggesting they were “more open to new experiences.” Similarly, a 2003 review of psychological research on self-identified conservatives across a number of countries concludes that individuals tend to adopt conservative ideologies “to reduce fear, anxiety, and uncertainty; to avoid change, disruption, and ambiguity; and to explain, order, and justify inequality among groups and individuals.” In short, people who gravitate toward conservative ideologies tend to be psychologically motivated by the need to manage uncertainty and fear.

    Source

  80. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 21, 2012 at 3:11 pm #

    john: Mark Zullo says they can go into a court of law and the BC would never be accepted, even if Obama produced a hard copy. This is absolutely true.

    Mike (not Mark) Zullo says pigs can fly, John. Does that make it true?

  81. avatar
    nbc July 21, 2012 at 3:30 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Mike (not Mark) Zullo says pigs can fly, John. Does that make it true?

    To John it would if it impugns the eligibility of our President. John is working backwards from a conclusion and appears to be only interested in authoritarian proclamations that support his view points. A victim of his genes and nurture I would claim.

  82. avatar
    Jim July 21, 2012 at 3:32 pm #

    john: Mark Zullo says they can go into a court of law and the BC would never be accepted, even if Obama produced a hard copy. This is absolutely true.

    I agree, Mike Zullo and the CCP can go into a court of law and the BC would never be accepted, because it would never be offered. One look at the total lack of proof of any wrong-doing on the part of the State of Hawaii, and the total lack of any proof that the President was born anywhere but the state of Hawaii would allow the case to be tossed long before it would be necessary for the BC to be produced…as it has in EVERY case thus far.

  83. avatar
    foreigner July 21, 2012 at 3:40 pm #

    why don’t you people just talk normally with those
    who have a different opinion like John ?
    He didn’t insult/ridicule you but you do.
    Same with Retired Intelligence Officer or such
    (and maybe many others who I missed)
    who was even banned.

  84. avatar
    Thomas Brown July 21, 2012 at 3:42 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Mike (not Mark) Zullo says pigs can fly, John. Does that make it true?

    Actually, that depends on what Zullo meant by the BC. Certainly, the .pdf would not be, nor would a .pdf (or any electronic image) of anyone’s vital documents, unless by special permission of the court due to some extreme circumstances. It is even questionable whether a particular court would accept the long form BC. Unless I’m mistaken, the legally cognizable form, that any citizen would present to a court, or to get a security clearance, or to apply for a job at the FBI, say, would be a state-certified COLB. Which BHO produced in 2008.

    At the bottom it says “This document serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding.”

    Got that, John?

    Prima facie evidence. Meaning NO court, even the Supreme Court, would ask for any further documentation. It would be accepted. Case closed. There would be no discussion of layers in the .pdf, no blathering about pencil marks, no undocumented conversations with 95-year-old ladies. The COLB would be accepted, because that’s the law.

    Something, by the way, no other president or presidential candidate has, to my knowledge, ever produced. Certainly Mitt Rmoney hasn’t.

    And if there WAS any question in the court’s mind about the authenticity of the paper document, they would ask Hawaii for verification of the information contained therein.

    Which has also already been done. Game, set, match.

    I am starting a list of all the separate lies told by Birthers since the beginning, starting with the “Pakistani Travel Ban” lie. So far I am up to 164.

    164 separate, individual outright lies. And I’m just getting started. So it is a testament to the thickness, the psychotic denialism, the utter intellectual dishonesty of john and other Birther posters here that they express shock and anger that we accuse Birthers of lying.

    They have done nothing BUT lie, for years on end. They will continue to lie as long as anyone will listen. They are liars. Total, shameless, bald-faced liars, and yet you think they are patriotic purveyors of the Truth.

    That’s simply pathetic.

  85. avatar
    sactosintolerant July 21, 2012 at 3:44 pm #

    john:
    Mark Gillar responded to Doc C.:

    “I spoke with Mike Zullo a short time ago. He assured me the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office received confirmation that the codes seen at the 33 second and 2:13 markare reflective of the 1961 coding procedure. The error on the screen at the 2:00 minute has now been noted.”

    Would that confirmation be the word of a 95 year old woman talking about office procedures from 51 years ago?

  86. avatar
    Andy July 21, 2012 at 3:47 pm #

    foreigner:
    why don’t you people just talk normally with those
    who have a different opinion like John ?
    He didn’t insult/ridicule you but you do.
    Same with Retired Intelligence Officer or such
    (and maybe many others who I missed)
    who was even banned.

    Because he’s an idiot, and dealing with idiots gets tiresome (even for a middle school/high school teacher).

  87. avatar
    sactosintolerant July 21, 2012 at 3:47 pm #

    I know the occupation code doesn’t prove anything and in reality doesn’t even need to be addressed, but I’m betting 9 stands for either unemployed or other.

  88. avatar
    nbc July 21, 2012 at 3:54 pm #

    john: “I spoke with Mike Zullo a short time ago. He assured me the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office received confirmation that the codes seen at the 33 second and 2:13 mark are reflective of the 1961 coding procedure. The error on the screen at the 2:00 minute has now been noted.”

    So there is no 1961 manual, just some unsupported ‘confirmation’

    Figures… And so the 1961 document that disputes the interpretation still remains.

    These poor souls are so predictable… Confirmation bias does not allow them to consider any other information or data.
    No wonder the CCP fails to present any relevant data to support their thesis.

    Anyone shocked?

  89. avatar
    nbc July 21, 2012 at 3:56 pm #

    sactosintolerant: Would that confirmation be the word of a 95 year old woman talking about office procedures from 51 years ago?

    Remembering best what the procedures were after 1964 and may not have remembered the procedures from 1959-1963?

    But yes, in spite of the claims that they had a codebook, they are now distancing themselves from hard evidence, which they appear to have misrepresented, and focusing on hearsay about something that took place 50 years ago.

    Fascinating… The reluctance and unwillingness to accept the simple facts of President Obama’s birth fully support my thesis about the ‘conservative mind’.

  90. avatar
    nbc July 21, 2012 at 3:59 pm #

    Arthur: For the same reason that the Wizard of Oz refused to step out from behind that curtain.

    Look, their arguments are all over the board now. They claimed a manual from 1961, showed one from 1968 and a debunked one, and fail to accept the FOIA document shown by Dr C. Now they appear to change their story to ‘we received confirmation’ but no efforts are made to provide the document to which so much reference was made initially.

    Why can they not admit that they were wrong and get on with it? Because it would lay to rest another myth and that is something the ‘conservative mind’ is unable to process accurately?
    That’s what happens when one considers one guilty until proven innocent…

  91. avatar
    nbc July 21, 2012 at 4:04 pm #

    john: The videos were produced by Mark Gillar and were designed to convey the Cold Case Posse’s finding in a way that be easily understood. The material present on the video might not necessarily represent the true evidence that CCP has but conveys it in way that easy to understand.

    Wow… What chicken language… So they lied to convey the truth? Is that your argument?

    And they still have not presented ANY evidence of the 1961 manual, other than a vague reference to ‘confirmation’.

    I call BS. What I did understand is that the video misrepresents the evidence and fails to present the known evidence that contradicts the interpretation. Was this also done to simplify the ‘findings’?
    The meaning of ‘true evidence’ now has been redefined to ‘evidence that supports my ignorance’.

    Well done John. You continue to be a marvelous specimen of the ‘conservative mind’.

  92. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 21, 2012 at 4:13 pm #

    Thomas Brown: I am starting a list of all the separate lies told by Birthers since the beginning, starting with the “Pakistani Travel Ban” lie. So far I am up to 164.

    You may want to check how much space is available on your hard disk. Birther lies could fill it up very fast.

  93. avatar
    Thomas Brown July 21, 2012 at 4:39 pm #

    CarlOrcas: You may want to check how much space is available on your hard disk. Birther lies could fill it up very fast.

    It’s true. I’m trying be complete, but also to limit the size (and also the wear and tear on the reader should anyone want to peruse the list) by numbering only paragraph headings, as it were. For instance, “The .pdf was forged” is a lie, but it’s chapter-level. At that level, there’d only be a few dozen entries.

    At paragraph-level, there’s 83) The .pdf is forged because it has layers, 84) The .pdf is forged because it has too many layers, 85) The .pdf is forged because it doesn’t have enough layers…

    To be sure, each of those lies is supported by even more detailed lies, lies only John Woodman (bless him) has the patience to de-bunk; and as you rightly stated, if divided down that far I may not have enough hard drive to hold them all.

    A man’s got to know his limitations.

  94. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 21, 2012 at 4:59 pm #

    They are backed into a corner. There is proof that even a birther can understand that they showed a manual in the video that was not the real manual. Instead of saying, “we thought all the codes were the same and we screwed up”, they have tried to brave it out by telling another likely lie, that they have the real book.

    Even a birther at this point is going to ask to see the real code book. They don’t have any book now, but mine and it’s damning for their purposes. Their only alternative is to try to back into a dark corner, blame it on 95-year-old Verna Lee, or make a fake book. Making a fake book is fraught with danger because they don’t know what else we Obots have in the bag to pull out at the right time.

    Folks send me things all the time and say “don’t release this yet.” I may have obtained the Hawaiian manual from my contact at the Hawaii Department of Health this morning. I might have the Statistical Supplement to the 1961-1962 Hawaii Department of Health Education Annual Report the showing racial breakdowns inconsistent with the Posse table. How could they know one way or the other?

    If I’m reading this right Gillar is blaming it all on Zullo, and Zullo is blaming it all on Corsi. Will Corsi now blame it all on the Daily Pen? The only difference between this debacle and the graphic analysis of the long form is that most people aren’t qualified to understand the lie in the latter. Everyone can identify the lie with the codes.

    nbc: Look, their arguments are all over the board now. They claimed a manual from 1961, showed one from 1968 and a debunked one, and fail to accept the FOIA document shown by Dr C. Now they appear to change their story to ‘we received confirmation’ but no efforts are made to provide the document to which so much reference was made initially.

  95. avatar
    DP July 21, 2012 at 5:17 pm #

    john:
    Sheriff Joe has presented his case that on-line PDF is a forgery.Hawaii has not produced one ounce of refutement to this claim.Hawaii has not produced one shred of evidence that refutes Arpaio’s findings.

    What Hawaii has produced is their word or verification that on-line PDF matches their records and is legit.

    There is a problem with this and Hawaii is now guilty of purpretuating a fraud.I will explain soon.

    Hawaii’s own verification of the on-line PDF underminds their credibility.I will explain soon.

    Where do idiots like you come from? Seriously, what combination of unfortunate circumstance creates a mental backwater sufficient to spawn you and your like.

    Since Sheriff Joe has done nothing with his “findings,” because he knows they don’t prove anything, Hawaii is under no obligation to refute anything. And the information Sheriff Joe presented is just tired, recycled crap discredited years ago.

    You would have made a great Soviet, John, singing the anthem and believing with all your stupid heart as the USSR dissolved around you.

  96. avatar
    donna July 21, 2012 at 5:19 pm #

    nbc: ” Now they appear to change their story….”

    hasn’t that been the way since the beginning? they kept changing the goal posts thinking no one will catch them

    immediately after the co shooting, breitbart and drudge said holmes was a registered democrat – the “holmes” they located was a year older and lived a 6 hour drive away –

    don’t they check OR is it that they think no one else will?

    the information gathered against the CCP is damning but will the people who support them ever know or be convinced?

    speaking of goal posts, latest red meat

    Wednesday, July 18, 2012

    OBAMA’S KENYAN BIRTH RECORDS DISCOVERED IN BRITISH NATIONAL ARCHIVES

    http://thedailypen.blogspot.com.au/2012/07/obamas-kenyan-birth-records-discovered.html

  97. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 21, 2012 at 5:49 pm #

    donna: OBAMA’S KENYAN BIRTH RECORDS DISCOVERED IN BRITISH NATIONAL ARCHIVES

    I really like the editor’s note on the entry.

    (Editors note: The records alluded to in this story were discovered through a May, 2012 search through BMD Registers, a BNA partner site, using the search term “Obama”. Corroborating evidence through public sources only implicates the identity of those involved but does not explicitly prove their identity in the absence of the availability of original documents.)

    It makes Brian Ross’ work on the Aurora shooting look like a Pulitzer winner.

  98. avatar
    donna July 21, 2012 at 5:57 pm #

    CarlOrcas :

    have you been exposed to the obamafile? me, only out of curiosity since birthers consider it one of their “legitimate & factual” sources – the blogger actually says he cherry-picks articles to post there and, when you delve into the weeds, he writes

    “Ultimately, the reader must decide what may and what may not be FACTUAL.”

    independent research is not one of the birthers’ strong suits

  99. avatar
    justlw July 21, 2012 at 6:24 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: they don’t know what else we Obots have in the bag to pull out at the right time.

    Folks send me things all the time and say “don’t release this yet.” I may have obtained the Hawaiian manual from my contact at the Hawaii Department of Health this morning. I might have the Statistical Supplement to the 1961-1962 Hawaii Department of Health Education Annual Report the showing racial breakdowns inconsistent with the Posse table. How could they know one way or the other?

    “I think that’s about the worst thing I’ve ever heard.”

    [pause]

    “How marvelous.”

  100. avatar
    Whatever4 July 21, 2012 at 8:58 pm #

    nbc: He showed a 1968 document and a known fraudulent document. Ask yourself the simple question: Why does Corsi refuse to show the code book and lay it all to rest? I think you do know the answer, but it’s a little hard to accept that Doc C, once again exposed the CCP as clueless.

    Why does CORSI have the code book and not the CCP? Is he actually a member of the CCP? That would be a huge breach of journalistic ethics.

    Stop laughing.

    Would the Code book and other CCP resources be subject to an AZ FOIA-equivalent?

  101. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 21, 2012 at 9:05 pm #

    donna: have you been exposed to the obamafile? me, only out of curiosity since birthers consider it one of their “legitimate & factual” sources – the blogger actually says he cherry-picks articles to post there and, when you delve into the weeds, he writes
    “Ultimately, the reader must decide what may and what may not be FACTUAL.”
    independent research is not one of the birthers’ strong suits

    I’ve looked at the site a couple times and didn’t find anything worth my time.

    As far as his caveat is concerned that does tell the story, doesn’t it?

  102. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 21, 2012 at 9:08 pm #

    Whatever4: Why does CORSI have the code book and not the CCP? Is he actually a member of the CCP? That would be a huge breach of journalistic ethics.
    Stop laughing.

    Spit up on the keyboard time! Corsi isn’t a jornalist and the posse isn’t law enforcement.

    Whatever4: Would the Code book and other CCP resources be subject to an AZ FOIA-equivalent?

    Now….that is a good question. The posse is a non-profit but doesn’t file a 990 because it’s affiliated with a public agency. Any thoughts on that from our lawyers?

  103. avatar
    Whatever4 July 21, 2012 at 9:12 pm #

    Thomas Brown:
    I am starting a list of all the separate lies told by Birthers since the beginning, starting with the “Pakistani Travel Ban” lie.So far I am up to 164.

    164 separate, individual outright lies.And I’m just getting started.So it is a testament to the thickness, the psychotic denialism, the utter intellectual dishonesty of john and other Birther posters here that they express shock and anger that we accuse Birthers of lying.

    They have done nothing BUT lie, for years on end.They will continue to lie as long as anyone will listen.They are liars.Total, shameless, bald-faced liars, and yet you think they are patriotic purveyors of the Truth.

    That’s simply pathetic.

    I don’t suppose you have that online anywhere? I manage the Fogbow debunking pages, and such a list would be awesome.

  104. avatar
    ObiWanCannoli July 21, 2012 at 9:25 pm #

    nbc: john: The videos were produced by Mark Gillar and were designed to convey the Cold Case Posse’s finding in a way that be easily understood. The material present on the video might not necessarily represent the true evidence that CCP has but conveys it in way that easy to understand.

    Wow! A birther actually is admitting MSO and the CCP had lied. There is a hope for John after all.

  105. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG July 21, 2012 at 9:39 pm #

    john:
    The material present on the video might not necessarily represent the true evidence that CCP has but conveys it in way that easy to understand.

    So you’re admitting that birthers lie their asses off? Well the first step to getting him is admitting that you have a problem, so good on you!

  106. avatar
    Keith July 21, 2012 at 9:57 pm #

    foreigner: they sent their microfilm copies of the certificates and the feds examined those.
    I don’t see that they sent their data in computer-readable form

    So what is the point of the encoding? So you are saying that somebody in Washington DC reads a million individual BC’s every year? Are you stupid or just insane?

    What microfilm?

  107. avatar
    Keith July 21, 2012 at 10:04 pm #

    john: OK, Here it goes. Hawaii is undoubtly guilty of purpretrating fraud. Here is the proof:

    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html

    Please note the first line on this webpage and the link.

    “On April 27, 2011 President Barack Obama posted a certified copy of his original Certificate of Live Birth.
    For information go to http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate

    The State Hawaii is claiming the the on-line PDF IS Obama’s original birth certificate.

    The only thing the State of Hawai’i is guilty of here is underestimating the stupidity of people like you who don’t understand the shortcuts taken in the English language.

    A PDF is not a birth certificate, and the State of Hawai’i is not claiming that it is.

    The PDF that was posted is AN IMAGE of the Birth Certificate.

    Anyone who tries to interpret the State of Hawai’i’s assertion that the BC was posted to mean that it is the PDF that is the Birth Certificate is quite simply a waste of oxygen.

  108. avatar
    Keith July 21, 2012 at 10:11 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Spamming the Internet.

    Expect some blog back in comments here.

    I have resisted, mostly, the urge to point some ATS recalcitrants to you for exactly this reason. I may have used an old blog post as evidence though for something recently. Whether or not they follow through, I dunno.

  109. avatar
    Keith July 21, 2012 at 10:21 pm #

    Thomas Brown: I am starting a list of all the separate lies told by Birthers since the beginning, starting with the “Pakistani Travel Ban” lie. So far I am up to 164.

    Publish and be honored!

  110. avatar
    Keith July 21, 2012 at 10:25 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Folks send me things all the time and say “don’t release this yet.” I may have obtained the Hawaiian manual from my contact at the Hawaii Department of Health this morning. I might have the Statistical Supplement to the 1961-1962 Hawaii Department of Health Education Annual Report the showing racial breakdowns inconsistent with the Posse table. How could they know one way or the other?

    :D

    Hey a thought… could you get the Arizona coding specifications…? Wouldn’t prove anything about Hawai’i of course, but it would add another uh, …’layer’…

  111. avatar
    Feinne July 21, 2012 at 10:36 pm #

    It’s funny how john talks about the state of Hawaii not having any credibility, because for me and a lot of other people the person who doesn’t have any credibility in this situation is Arpaio. If that bag of crap said the sky was blue I’d go double check that it hadn’t turned green suddenly. It’s a national disgrace that he’s allowed to be running jails instead of in them (though hopefully that’ll be remedied soon enough).

  112. avatar
    JPotter July 21, 2012 at 10:58 pm #

    john: Please note the first line on this webpage and the link.

    “On April 27, 2011 President Barack Obama posted a certified copy of his original Certificate of Live Birth … The State Hawaii is claiming the the on-line PDF IS [the] original birth certificate.

    Reading comprehension failure on Planet Birf … all conditions normal, water is still wet.

  113. avatar
    nbc July 21, 2012 at 10:59 pm #

    Feinne: It’s funny how john talks about the state of Hawaii not having any credibility, because for me and a lot of other people the person who doesn’t have any credibility in this situation is Arpaio.

    The State of Hawaii has consistently applied its laws and rules but has clearly confirmed, more than once that President Obama was born on US soil, just as both his COLB and long form show.
    People across the political spectrum have all communicated the same facts. And yet, this somehow confuses those who cannot accept the truth as it conflicts with their ignorant fears.

    Arpaio is seen as a ‘hero’ in the conservative minds which fear outsiders and approve of the violation of human and civil rights against illegal and even legal immigrants under the guise of ‘justice’ or ‘national security’. Such scoundrels will use any excuse to further persecute the weak and poor as they are outsiders to the group. That they still claim themselves to be Christians is something that puzzles me immensely but the continuation of such dissonance is not uncommon.
    It’s sad how some feel comfortable to have people in authority tell them what to do and how to act. As such they become ‘useful idiots’ in the hands of the puppet masters, leading to much embarrassment but then again there remain enough fools to continue the process for some time. Until the moment the people will free themselves from this intellectual slavery and start thinking for themselves, and search out a wide range of data points and opposing views. But the standard ‘conservative mind’ may have problems with this

    Note that I am not saying that all conservatives suffer from these afflictions. Heck, John Woodman shows a clear example that defies such a simplistic interpretation. What I am stating is that political spectrum and the need for certainty, the fear of ambiguity and the need for strong powerful leadership are found to have similar causation in genetics as well as nurture. That there is a genetic component is quite fascinating to me, and that such behavior continues in small, guarded communities is unfortunate.

  114. avatar
    nbc July 21, 2012 at 11:04 pm #

    john: “On April 27, 2011 President Barack Obama posted a certified copy of his original Certificate of Live Birth.
    For information go to http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate

    The State Hawaii is claiming the the on-line PDF IS Obama’s original birth certificate.

    It is clear that John has no reading comprehension. Note that the State of Hawaii is stating that they have the original on file and that the certified copy of the original matches the original.

    No wonder John is so confused, he cannot even properly parse simple English.

    What Arpaio and his posse have done is trying to show that the copy of the document, provided in PDF format is somehow showing evidence of tampering even though the evidence is much better explained by simple compression algorithms found in the software used.

    And thus Arpaio and his posse have become victim of sloppy research, jumping to conclusions, flawed logic and faulty analysis. Furthermore, even if the PDF had somehow been ‘altered’ the original document (certified copy) , as photographed by Savannah Guthry shows clearly that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Such follies.

  115. avatar
    nbc July 21, 2012 at 11:09 pm #

    john: By placing this forgery on its own website, Hawaii is guilty of purpretrating a fraud and it undermines their own credibility to give an verifications of the birth certificate.

    No evidence of a forgery exists other than in the minds of some foolish birthers who fail to understand the concept of mixed raster compression.

    Such fools. And John continues to exhibit his usual circular reasoning and yet, if one were to accept the simple facts that the document is a copy of the certified document and accurately represents the original document on file, all these problems disappear and the fools that remain are the Sheriff and his posse, who are unable to apply common sense and critical thinking in their ‘research’.

    But in the end they have nothing more than: Hawaii did not treat us with the respect we believe we deserved. Such children…

    And thus, all this will blow over, once again, and noone will take notice of these foolish ideas. Although it would be nice if these people would be held to task and forced to testify in oath and be submitted to proper cross examination.
    Their testimony would fall apart within 30 minutes as they have shown themselves in my opinion to be quite incompetent in doing the ‘research’ and have been willing to misrepresent documents and data. Although John appears to approve of this as an example to ‘simplify’ to more enlightened souls this shows clear evidence of shoddy work, likely out of biased thinking.

    John himself has shown how he is unable to accept any logic, reason or fact that conflicts with his ignorance and fears.

  116. avatar
    bgansel9 July 21, 2012 at 11:38 pm #

    nbc: But in the end they have nothing more than: Hawaii did not treat us with the respect we believe we deserved. Such children…

    And why should they? :P

  117. avatar
    bgansel9 July 21, 2012 at 11:40 pm #

    nbc: And thus Arpaio and his posse have become victim of sloppy research, jumping to conclusions, flawed logic and faulty analysis

    But, the nice thing is they can never go back and undo all that. It will help us immensely in finally getting rid of this nutjob sheriff.

  118. avatar
    bgansel9 July 21, 2012 at 11:46 pm #

    john: The videos were produced by Mark Gillar and were designed to convey the Cold Case Posse’s finding in a way that be easily understood. The material present on the video might not necessarily represent the true evidence that CCP has but

    Hold it right there. Arpaio is a county sheriff who works at the behest of county residents. He is paid by county taxpayers. His “posse” activities are funded by county taxpayers also. Whatever they have, if it’s not factual, they had better stop playing games, because they are messing with county taxpayer’s dimes and time (and might I add, they are spending it on activities that have NOTHING TO DO WITH COUNTY TAXPAYERS).

  119. avatar
    John Woodman July 22, 2012 at 12:46 am #

    john:
    Then prove Corsi doesn’t have the 1961 Code Book.oops!You don’t have a direct and tangible interest in the investigation so you are just going to have to trust Dr. Corsi.

    Based on the evidence presented, I completely concur in the judgment that Arpaio’s Cold Case Posse fabricated evidence and lied to the people of Maricopa County and the nation. The evidence is very clear cut and authoritative, and there simply does not seem to be any possible rational way to reach any other conclusion.

    In light of this apparently incontrovertible evidence, the burden is on the Cold Case Posse to establish that they do in fact have the manual they claim to have, that it is authentic, and that it says what they claim it says.

    Their possession of such a manual appears from the evidence presented to be impossible. But I’m open to seeing their manual.

  120. avatar
    John Woodman July 22, 2012 at 12:51 am #

    john:
    Because Sheriff Joe has proven the on-line PDF is a forgery from more than 7 ways to Sunday, Hawaii’s Credibility in destroyed and they can never been trusted.

    Virtually every single claim of “proof of forgery” made by Arpaio’s posse in the March press conference had been factually debunked in the book I wrote, published 6 months before the press conference, and before their investigation ever began.

  121. avatar
    nbc July 22, 2012 at 1:01 am #

    John Woodman: Based on the evidence presented, I completely concur in the judgment that Arpaio’s Cold Case Posse fabricated evidence and lied to the people of Maricopa County and the nation. The evidence is very clear cut and authoritative, and there simply does not seem to be any possible rational way to reach any other conclusion.

    Time to impeach our ‘sheriff’. What a clown.

  122. avatar
    John Woodman July 22, 2012 at 1:02 am #

    john:
    The Code 9 interpretation came from the 1961 Code Book that Dr. Corsi was able to get after months of searching.

    BS. Corsi doesn’t have any such book, or he would’ve produced it.

    Aside from which, as Dr. Conspiracy has pointed out, we know for a fact that it’s impossible that the 1961 codes say what Corsi and Arpaio’s posse claim they say.

    Your guys have been lying to the public from the very beginning. Finally they really, really got caught red-handed.

    And you defend frauds. You defend liars. You defend charlatans, instead of standing up for the truth.

    What does that make you, john?

    john: And again, I think the 1961/1968 Code Book screen capture was a “mistake” made for expediency purposes.

    BS. If they had had a document with the 1961 codes, they would’ve put the image of that book in. They would NEVER have put in an image of some other document from 1968, and one from 1969.

    That is just total, absolute, transparent BS.

  123. avatar
    Arthur July 22, 2012 at 2:02 am #

    nbc: Time to impeach our ‘sheriff’.

    Given Arpaio’s active participation in this latest round of misrepresentation, one wonders how many times in the past his willingness to lie has affected the outcome of criminal cases.

  124. avatar
    nbc July 22, 2012 at 2:10 am #

    Somehow I think Arpaio has bigger problems to worry about than whether or not his posse misrepresented facts.

    Still, I would expect the Sheriff to stand up to anyone abusing the powers of his office, volunteer or not. Are they not bound by the same standards or is this just a knitting club?
    Then again, perhaps the sheriff has lost control over his posse’s? Not a bad argument when trying to avoid personal culpability in the latest lawsuits.
    How old is our Sheriff? Could he pull off a ‘Reagan’?

  125. avatar
    justlw July 22, 2012 at 2:18 am #

    john: The material present on the video might not necessarily represent the true evidence that CCP has

    …reminiscent of another fine contribution from an Arizona public servant:

    not intended to be a factual statement.”

  126. avatar
    Keith July 22, 2012 at 5:08 am #

    john: Then prove Corsi doesn’t have the 1961 Code Book.

    That has been proven. Read the blog post.

    There are two possibilities:

    1) The CCP is lying: They have only the 1968 codes and they chose to purposely claim the 1968 codes were the 1961 codes because they thought nobody could possibly notice and prove them wrong.
    2) The CCP is lying: They have both the 1961 and the 1968 code books, and they chose to purposely use the 1968 code anyway because they thought nobody could possibly notice and prove them wrong.

    I am really beginning to think that every drugs bust in Maricopa County should be reexamined for the likely hood of planted evidence.

  127. avatar
    Keith July 22, 2012 at 5:18 am #

    john: And again, I think the 1961/1968 Code Book screen capture was a “mistake” made for expediency purposes.

    No it was not a “a “mistake” made for expediency purposes”.

    Their entire argument was based on the code set in that 1968 table.

    It was a bald faced lie, pure and simple.

    There is NO wiggle room or equivocation, they lied.

    And you so want that to not be the case you are willing to tie yourself into a pretzel to maintain your belief system.

    Get over it.

  128. avatar
    Keith July 22, 2012 at 5:28 am #

    sactosintolerant: I know the occupation code doesn’t prove anything and in reality doesn’t even need to be addressed, but I’m betting 9 stands for either unemployed or other.

    I’ll take that bet.

    I bet ‘9’ in block 12b stands for “University”.

  129. avatar
    Chef July 22, 2012 at 11:24 am #

    Thanks for solving that one. When the microfilm is finally released, we’re all gonna have a lot of free time on our hands!

    ‘Til then, can you please solve this one please:

    http://www.wnd.com/2012/07/another-doctored-image-deepens-obama-mystery/

  130. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 22, 2012 at 11:36 am #

    bgansel9: His “posse” activities are funded by county taxpayers also

    Actually there are about 50 posses and none of them cost the sheriff’s office anything. They are all non-profit organizations.

    http://www.mcsoposse.org/Default.aspx

  131. avatar
    Arthur July 22, 2012 at 11:41 am #

    Chef: ‘Til then, can you please solve this one please:

    Chef, please. Tell me you’re kidding; you are kidding right? No one could really be that delusional to believe what Corsil and Joel Gilbert are pushing.

  132. avatar
    donna July 22, 2012 at 11:44 am #

    Chef: When the microfilm is finally released…

    have you ever seen microfilm?

    it will never be released but if it were, how would it not violate the privacy of others on the film?

    Guide to Microforms – Aperture Cards, Microfilm, Microfiche, and More

    http://www.shorelinerecordsmanagement.com/customer-service/education-center/guide-to-microforms/

  133. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 22, 2012 at 11:51 am #

    Arthur: No one could really be that delusional to believe what Corsil and Joel Gilbert are pushing.

    You obviously missed all the comments. They’re buying it hook, line and sinker.

  134. avatar
    Arthur July 22, 2012 at 11:56 am #

    CarlOrcas: You obviously missed all the comments. They’re buying it hook, line and sinker.

    I’m just a naive dummy, unschooled in the power of hate to cloud the minds of men and women.

  135. avatar
    JPotter July 22, 2012 at 12:28 pm #

    Chef: When the microfilm is finally released,

    I see appeasement by anti-birthers and dripfeeding by birther prophets has created a culture of dependent, expectant entitlement!

    Chef: Til then, can you please solve this one please:

    Ah, yes, “please do my homework for me”. And counter correction with misdirection. Stay on topic! But, since you asked, let me appease you once more:

    Start by looking at the unaltered photo, from Obama’s facebook page:
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150902091511749&set=a.10150902090006749.401812.6815841748&type=3&theater

    This image is linked to from:
    http://www.obamasrealfather.com/breaking_news002/

    Which Corsi’s drivel links to at the link you provided.

    The image is a scan of a photo printed in the early 70s. As is typical of prints from that era, the magenta pigment is most permanent. Color enlargements are by nature unstable and will degrade over time. Go look at your old photo albums.

    Further, as if typical of photos posted online, it is a low resolution (487 x 720), low-quality JPG. Blotchy and full or artifacts.

    The jokers at Dreams from My Real Father have altered the photo, ostensible to restore a more natural color balance, but they don’t acknowledge that in their article. (I haven’t bothered watching their video)

    The colors values on Ann’s hand, in RGB terms, are ~2:1:1, as they are in the shadow on her neck. It’s her skin tone. She is directly behind Obama, his arms is casting a shadow. The scene is sunlit from windows to the left/rear. The hand is proportional to her elbow and face.

    So, here’s the claims at obamasrealfather.com/breaking_news002/ :

    Photo Anomalies
    1. The Black hand under Obama’s right armpit doesn’t match Ann Dunham’s right arm. The size and color is wrong for a white female, and the hand is positioned closer to camera than Ann’s arm. The hand appears to be a remnant from a Black male before it was air brushed.
    2. The chair on the far left next to Ann Dunham is brown, and smaller than the chairs on the right which are white. The horizontal support bar for the brown chair does not align with the white chairs’ support bar.
    3. Ann Dunham’s hair over both her right and left shoulders show signs of airbrushing.
    4. The lighting on Ann Dunham’s face is from the far left, and is not consistent with the others who are lit from above. This suggests Ann Dunham’s image was placed into this scene from a different photo.
    5. Above and below Obama’s right elbow, there is a ghosting effect where a glow emanates from the arm, suggesting a different underlying image such as a light-colored shirt behind Obama. Uneven pixilation is a sign of cloning.
    6. Ann looks to be about 25 years old, too young for this 1973 photo. Obama’s half sister Maya (born Aug 15, 1970) looks to be about 3 years old, so Obama is would be 12 and Ann should look 30 years old.

    1. See the above. No technical proof of this claim provided, only assertion, folllowed by an unsupportable, baseless conclusion.
    2. They are from two different units of row seating. No reason why they shouldn’t be different colors. The support rail is not aligned, because the white unit is pulled out farther from the wall. Refer to the shadows cast by the seat backs on the wall, and the distance of the chair leg from the wall. The color of the wall is consistent, and the line at teh base of the wall is perfectly aligned. It’s all the same background. Their #2 is a flatout lie.
    3. Such as? This is a blank assertion.
    4. Everything in the photo is lit from the left! The walls, the chairs, Obama, his sister, the floor. Look at all the shadows cast. #4 is a blatant lie, aimed at those will to be spoonfed rather than relying on their own observation.
    5. No, there are typical JPEG artifacts, found along all edges in the photo, and every other highly compressed JPEG with significant contrasts. Look at the chairs, the outline of each person. Nothing unusual about the “jaggies” around the arm. Their #5 is a case of misdirection by selective observation.
    6. Ann looked youthful in all photos I have seen. In a photo of this resolution, no details of complexion can be seen. Age is impossible to determine. They are asserting they can differentiate between 25 and 30 in this photo? C’mon! Note the sag in the forearm. Indelicate as it is to say, there is a sign of age. No reason to believe she is not her correct age for the purported date of the photo.

    Everything about the photo is internally consistent.

  136. avatar
    nbc July 22, 2012 at 12:31 pm #

    Chef: Let us know when you figure out who scammed it.

    Well, that is clear is it not. But this is best dealt with at the Arizona State level as the Sheriff is a state employee not a federal one.

  137. avatar
    nbc July 22, 2012 at 12:32 pm #

    Chef: ‘Til then, can you please solve this one please:

    Another dead end? How desperate the birthers have become.

    Thanks Chef, that’s just hilarious.

  138. avatar
    nbc July 22, 2012 at 12:34 pm #

    Arthur: Chef, please. Tell me you’re kidding; you are kidding right? No one could really be that delusional to believe what Corsil and Joel Gilbert are pushing.

    Well, the alternative is to accept the fact of President Obama’s native birth and there will always be those who cannot accept such facts.

  139. avatar
    bgansel9 July 22, 2012 at 2:34 pm #

    nbc: Well, that is clear is it not. But this is best dealt with at the Arizona State level as the Sheriff is a state employee not a federal one.

    Perhaps you can enlighten me? I’ve been asking for a while now wherever I see this “Joe Arpaio is a state employee” thing, where is this stipulated and how? Arpaio was elected by county constituents. How do other Arizonans who didn’t have the (dis)pleasure of voting for him get stuck with him? I am asking for clarification here. Thank you.

  140. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 22, 2012 at 2:42 pm #

    nbc: Well, that is clear is it not. But this is best dealt with at the Arizona State level as the Sheriff is a state employee not a federal one.

    The sheriff isn’t a state employee. He’s an elected county level constitutional officer. He draws his pay from Maricopa County.

  141. avatar
    bgansel9 July 22, 2012 at 2:47 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Actually there are about 50 posses and none of them cost the sheriff’s office anything. They are all non-profit organizations.

    Carl, pay attention. I live in Maricopa County: http://www.azcentral.com/news/politics/articles/2012/06/20/20120620arizona-arpaio-birther-probe-maricopa-county-rejects-funds.html

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/21/joe-arpaio-cold-case-posse-birther_n_1616991.html

    You should know better than to take Joe Arpaio’s word on anything.

  142. avatar
    JPotter July 22, 2012 at 3:21 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Actually there are about 50 posses and none of them cost the sheriff’s office anything. They are all non-profit organizations.

    I don’t live in Maricopa County, but I have worked in and with several NPO’s. Non-Profit /= Non-Expense. If we take the sheriff’s word on how his posses operate, their are significant recordkeeping, training (thought very limited and lax!), and equipment costs. Does the Sheriff claim all of this posses are self-supporting? Are they holding bake sales?

    They’re either funded by county (i.e. taxpayers money), public grants, or, worst possibility of all, by private grants / donations. If it’s the later, even partially, then his posses are not public (volunteer) servants. They are mercenaries, burdened by conflicts of interest, dispensing unequal protection, in the service of private, partisan concerns.

    Certainly aren’t any ‘posses’ around here …. not in this century!

  143. avatar
    bgansel9 July 22, 2012 at 3:34 pm #

    JPotter:
    They’re either funded by county (i.e. taxpayers money), public grants, or, worst possibility of all, by private grants / donations. If it’s the later, even partially, then his posses are not public (volunteer) servants. They are mercenaries, burdened by conflicts of interest, dispensing unequal protection, in the service of private, partisan concerns.

    Our sheriff has announced that he can be sold to a private cause.

  144. avatar
    bgansel9 July 22, 2012 at 3:36 pm #

    CarlOrcas: The sheriff isn’t a state employee. He’s an elected county level constitutional officer. He draws his pay from Maricopa County.

    You and I agree on this. My domestic partner used to work for the same county, and knows how the pay works. He has seen Arpaio’s earnings listed on the same county list as he has in the past appeared. The only thing that the state has to do with earnings is pensions, as Maricopa County employees draw their pensions through the state employees fund.

  145. avatar
    JPotter July 22, 2012 at 4:08 pm #

    bgansel9: Our sheriff has announced that he can be sold to a private cause.

    Yeah, I know, and the ensuing faux indignation over the ensuing outrage has been a source of ongoing hilarity! Here’s hoping he’s gone soon. It’s crumbling around him. Kudos to all out there who have fought the good fight lo these two decades.

  146. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 22, 2012 at 4:18 pm #

    bgansel9: Carl, pay attention. I live in Maricopa County:

    Good for you. Until about a year a half ago I’d lived there for most of the preceding 52 years.

    The two links relate to a dispute with the supervisors over how to pay for the sworn deputy who went along with Zullo.

    bgansel9: You should know better than to take Joe Arpaio’s word on anything.

    I don’t take his word on anything but I can check and find out for myself that the posses are 501(c)3 non-profits. Did you do that?

  147. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 22, 2012 at 4:23 pm #

    JPotter: I don’t live in Maricopa County, but I have worked in and with several NPO’s. Non-Profit /= Non-Expense. If we take the sheriff’s word on how his posses operate, their are significant recordkeeping, training (thought very limited and lax!), and equipment costs. Does the Sheriff claim all of this posses are self-supporting? Are they holding bake sales?

    As I noted in a couple other posts each one is a non-profit. Unfortunately we can’t see their 990’s because they are affiliated with a public entity….the sheriff’s office.

    And, yes, they are self supporting and members provide their own equipment and supplies….including uniforms and up to and including trucks, horses and planes.

    JPotter: They are mercenaries, burdened by conflicts of interest, dispensing unequal protection, in the service of private, partisan concerns.

    Get a grip! They are realy glorified neighborhood watch organizations for the most part. Some, like the search and rescue units are well trained and a real asset to the county. I suggest you go to the link I provided and look at the list of posses. Some of them have their own websites and explain what they do.

  148. avatar
    bgansel9 July 22, 2012 at 4:28 pm #

    CarlOrcas: The two links relate to a dispute with the supervisors over how to pay for the sworn deputy who went along with Zullo.

    It is a cost of the birther investigation that county taxpayers are going to have to pay. The non-profits are NOT picking up the cost. I stated county taxpayers have to pay and I proved county taxpayers have to pay. You did not disprove what I stated at all.

  149. avatar
    US Citizen July 22, 2012 at 5:39 pm #

    John,

    I believe Obama was a shape-shifting reptilian that was killed after he had shifted into the likeness of Obama.
    He was then filled with Animatronic robot parts, then cloned.
    One clone is still at Disneyworld:

    http://www.miscfinds4u.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/obama.jpg

    …and his connections to Disney are unmistakable:

    http://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/obama-mickey-ears4.jpg

    http://mikesright.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/lunapic_132682550659529_1.jpg

    http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/content/2012/0119-obama-disney/11506666-1-eng-US/0119-OBAMA-DISNEY_full_600.jpg

    Obama has never refuted any of this.
    What is he hiding?
    The Constitution makes no mention that a president can’t be a dead lizard stuffed with electronics, so it all ties in.

  150. avatar
    nbc July 22, 2012 at 6:08 pm #

    CarlOrcas: The sheriff isn’t a state employee. He’s an elected county level constitutional officer. He draws his pay from Maricopa County.

    Oops… Same question but now about constitutional officer. Is there no oversight, are there no procedures to prevent this kind of abuse?

  151. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 22, 2012 at 6:47 pm #

    nbc: Oops… Same question but now about constitutional officer. Is there no oversight, are there no procedures to prevent this kind of abuse?

    The short answer? No oversight. Except for the ballot box. I don’t even think he can be impeached. I only believe state office holders are impeachable.

    The state has a long and proud history of fascinating elected county officials.

  152. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 22, 2012 at 6:52 pm #

    bgansel9: It is a cost of the birther investigation that county taxpayers are going to have to pay

    They’ve already paid it. The dispute is about using donations to reimburse the county.

    bgansel9: The non-profits are NOT picking up the cost.

    Didn’t say they were.

    bgansel9: I stated county taxpayers have to pay and I proved county taxpayers have to pay. You did not disprove what I stated at all.

    Actually you said “His “posse” activities are funded by county taxpayers also.” That isn’t true..

  153. avatar
    bgansel9 July 22, 2012 at 8:15 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Actually you said “His “posse” activities are funded by county taxpayers also.” That isn’t true..

    Okay, I should have said his birther activities, which have absolutely nothing to do county business at all, are being (or have been) picked up by county taxpayers, who are paying for a service (if I can call it that, I’m more likely to call it his delusions) that has (or which have) absolutely nothing to do with policing our county.

  154. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 22, 2012 at 10:58 pm #

    bgansel9: Okay, I should have said his birther activities, which have absolutely nothing to do county business at all, are being (or have been) picked up by county taxpayers, who are paying for a service (if I can call it that, I’m more likely to call it his delusions) that has (or which have) absolutely nothing to do with policing our county.

    You are absolutely right about the delusions and the fact that they have nothing to do with the sheriff’s primary responsibilities.

    It is a classic Arpaio dog and pony show designed to distract people and deflect attention from, in this case, his current civil trial and possible criminal charges. If and when he is charged with any crimes he will quickly pivot and blame it all on his pursuit of the “truth” about Barack Obama.

  155. avatar
    justlw July 23, 2012 at 12:19 am #

    Chef:
    can you please solve this one please:

    http://www.wnd.com/2012/07/another-doctored-image-deepens-obama-mystery/

    This is awesome. I recommend you get in contact with Mitt Romney, Rinsed Prius, Rush Limbaugh, and any other high-level GOP officials you can think of and demand that they base the remainder of the presidential campaign on this. Heavy rotation. Get Fred Davis to create some “demon sheep” -esque ads about it.

    can you please make a total laughingstock of the Republican Party promote this one as often as you can please.

  156. avatar
    JPotter July 23, 2012 at 12:46 am #

    CarlOrcas: yes, they are self supporting

    Good! It seems unlikely, but hopefully true. As I said, I don’t live there, and I note you have.

    Don’t worry, I have two hand with excellent gripping strength, demonstrated this weekend by installing a property-wide irrigation system (the drought continues). I stated that if the posses were partly/wholly privately funded, then they are (imo) mercenaries. This obvious distinction is lost on Joe, who sees nothing wrong in selling a deputy to private donors for a week. I should call Tulsa County and ask what the going rate on our deputies is! ;)

  157. avatar
    Thomas Brown July 23, 2012 at 12:49 pm #

    US Citizen: I believe Obama was a shape-shifting reptilian that was killed after he had shifted into the likeness of Obama.
    He was then filled with Animatronic robot parts, then cloned.

    Nuh-uh! I saw on the innertubes that he has a scar all the way around his head, proving that his body may be that of Barack Obama, but George Soros and the NWO had another brain, that of a communist dictator, transplanted into his skull.

    They can’t both be right!

    Or can they?!!

  158. avatar
    JOHN WAYNE July 23, 2012 at 3:41 pm #

    PRAVDA THE COMMUNITS NEWSPAPER RIPS OBUMMER

    n March 7th, 2012, Pravda called out the U.S. press for its deliberate neglect of the largest scandal in modern American history. Maricopa County, Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio released credible forensic evidence that Barack Obama, presumed President of the United States, presented to the world a forged Birth Certificate on April 27th, 2011.
    Since then, the scandal has only expanded. Former United States Postal Service worker Allen Hulton has recently come forward with compelling testimony given under Oath, which leads to only one conclusion: Barack Obama attended College in the United States as a Foreign Student.

  159. avatar
    donna July 23, 2012 at 3:59 pm #

    “The Give Us Liberty 1776 blog is reporting that The Washington Times daily newspaper has agreed to run a full page ad from the Article II PAC exposing the truth about the usurper in the White House. This is a media breakthrough.

    experts agree …. the proof is in

    http://giveusliberty1776.blogspot.com/2012/07/call-to-actionwashington-times-daily.html

  160. avatar
    Reality Check July 23, 2012 at 4:15 pm #

    That is Gary Wilmott’s blog. Here is how he was hyping this earlier:

    GIVE US LIBERTY

    WILL BE BREAKING AN EXCLUSIVE STORY TOMORROW MORNING CONCERNING A MEDIA BREAKTHROUGH RE: OBAMA ELIGIBILITY CRISIS AND OBAMA IDENTITY FRAUD…BE SURE TO TELL YOUR FRIENDS, FAMILY, RELATIVES, NEIGHBORS AND YES EVEN OBOTS ABOUT THIS IMPORTANT NEWS EVENT.

    WE ANTICIPATE THAT WE WILL HAVE THE INFORMATION TO SHARE BEFORE 8:00 10:00 AM ET. MONDAY, JULY 23

    What a joke. First, within reason any newspaper will run anything that will not get them sued or fined if you pay for it. Charles Kerchner has been running Birther propaganda in the Washington Times for a couple of years. So the big news was that a bunch of birther fools forked up the money and the Moonie Times ran and ad. :lol:

    donna: This is a media breakthrough.

  161. avatar
    G July 23, 2012 at 4:21 pm #

    Agreed. Loony full-page adverts being published in the Moonie Times is nothing new or unusual. As you pointed out, Kerchner’s Birther ads have been running in that paper now for years…

    Nobody other than the already crazy Birthers pay attention.

    This is as much of a “news flash” as reporting that the sun came up again today…

    *yawn*

    Reality Check:
    That is Gary Wilmott’s blog. Here is how he was hyping this earlier:

    What a joke. First, within reason any newspaper will run anything that will not get them sued or fined if you pay for it. Charles Kerchner has been running Birther propaganda in the Washington Times for a couple of years. So the big news was that a bunch of birther foolsforked up the money and the Moonie Times ran and ad.

  162. avatar
    donna July 23, 2012 at 4:23 pm #

    it’s “funny” that they don’t cite the CONSERVATIVE national journal as a credible source (refuting them)

    PDF Layers in Obama’s Birth Certificate

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/265767/pdf-layers-obamas-birth-certificate-nathan-goulding

    Dear Sheriff Joe:

    A little friendly advice, if you don’t mind.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/292464/sheriff-joes-birther-posse-kevin-d-williamson

  163. avatar
    JPotter July 23, 2012 at 4:30 pm #

    G: Loony full-page adverts being published in the Moonie Times is nothing new or unusual.

    Must be a groupthink rate. Full-page for price of spread.

  164. avatar
    G July 23, 2012 at 5:03 pm #

    ;)

    JPotter: Must be a groupthink rate. Full-page for price of spread.

  165. avatar
    Andy V. July 23, 2012 at 9:10 pm #

    This Dr. C is either stupid or paid to lie. This page alone proves it to anybody who looks at the stuff he put up. And many other comments are just missing the point a little so as to convince somebody not paying attention.

  166. avatar
    donna July 23, 2012 at 9:17 pm #

    Andy V:

    why don’t you elaborate on your bogus assertions with actual facts?

    tia

  167. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG July 23, 2012 at 9:39 pm #

    Andy V.:
    This Dr. C is either stupid or paid to lie. This page alone proves it to anybody who looks at the stuff he put up. And many other comments are just missing the point a little so as to convince somebody not paying attention.

    That username…Could this be the sincerest form of flattery that I see before me?

  168. avatar
    Andy V. July 23, 2012 at 9:45 pm #

    donna: In that report is stated on page 5-7:

    In that report is stated on page 5-7:

    That list has nothing to do with code numbers!!!!!

    Why are you even fighting this?
    I lived 22 years of my life in Europe, most of it under the watchful eye of the big brother. I know what it is all about, most Americans think all that is a myth.
    Even the biggest Russian newspaper, Pravda reports that “the speed that Obama is ruining America is ASTOUNDING”. We used to laugh at Pravda, now even they are “astounded” . Wake up people.

  169. avatar
    nbc July 23, 2012 at 9:48 pm #

    Andy V.: This Dr. C is either stupid or paid to lie. This page alone proves it to anybody who looks at the stuff he put up. And many other comments are just missing the point a little so as to convince somebody not paying attention.

    Poor John Wayne now he has returned as Andy V

  170. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG July 23, 2012 at 9:57 pm #

    Andy V.: In that report is stated on page 5-7:

    That list has nothing to do with code numbers!!!!!

    Why are you even fighting this?
    I lived 22 years of my life in Europe, most of it under the watchful eye of the big brother. I know what it is all about, most Americans think all that is a myth.
    Even the biggest Russian newspaper, Pravda reports that “the speed that Obama is ruining America is ASTOUNDING”.We used to laugh at Pravda, now even they are “astounded” .Wake up people.

    You speak of Pravda as if they were some big deal. Before encountering birthers, I had never even heard of it. But the impression I have of them, is that they are the Russian WND.

  171. avatar
    Andy V. July 23, 2012 at 10:02 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: You speak of Pravda as if they were some big deal. Before encountering birthers, I had never even heard of it. But the impression I have of them, is that they are the Russian WND.

    Never heard of Pravda, my point exactly, proves how little info you have to make any kind of assesment of this administrations actions.

  172. avatar
    G July 23, 2012 at 10:28 pm #

    Um, you do realize that the online Pravda is NOT the same as the actual physical Russian newspaper, right?

    …oops…

    Sorry, but online Pravda is not much more than a small-time online tabloid. But thanks for playing.

    Andy V.: Never heard of Pravda, my point exactly, proves how little info you have to make any kind of assesment of this administrations actions.

  173. avatar
    Northland10 July 23, 2012 at 10:47 pm #

    Andy V.: I lived 22 years of my life in Europe, most of it under the watchful eye of the big brother. I know what it is all about, most Americans think all that is a myth.

    Funny how you still have big brother over there controlling you over here. He does not even do anything as your fear of a supposed “big brother” over here makes you so easy to manipulate.

    You can take the person out of Oceania but you cannot take Oceania out of the person. It looks like you are extending your two-minute hate out to a full 2 days.

  174. avatar
    JPotter July 24, 2012 at 12:36 am #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: You speak of Pravda as if they were some big deal.

    Really? It was a HUGE deal during the Cold War … like the Second World’s New York Times, except, as the official paper of The Party, it was the paper for an entire political sphere. And it was often hilarious!!! Imagine reading the nutteries the raving birther loons put out. Now imagine the birthers have 50,000 nuclear warheads. Sovcits got nothing on the Soviets.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pravda

    There is a digital archive …. unfortunately not free. Bloody communists went and got all capitalist! ;)

    http://www.eastview.com/Files/EastViewPravdaDigitalArchive.pdf

    They had another nationwide paper, Izvestia (“news”). It was the Soviet newspaper. Ostensibly, it was the straight (yet censored) reporting, Pravda (“truth”) was the BS party propaganda. As the Russkies used to say, “In the Truth there is no news, and in the News there is no truth).”

  175. avatar
    The Magic M July 24, 2012 at 4:21 am #

    JOHN WAYNE: PRAVDA THE COMMUNITS NEWSPAPER RIPS OBUMMER

    Doesn’t that prove Obama cannot be the communist you birthers claim he is? I mean, if he were a communist, wouldn’t “Pravda the communits (sic) newspaper” praise him like a saint? (Or is Pravda only pretending to rip him to hide the fact he is a communist? I am confused.)

    It’s really amazing how you can believe so many incompatible things simultaneously. I think I have a friend who might want to include you in her psychological studies.

  176. avatar
    Thomas Brown July 24, 2012 at 8:15 am #

    “He’s a Communist! I read it in Pravda!”

    “You Statists are enemies of the State!”

    “Keep your Government hands off my Medicare!”

    “He’s a Muslim, who was fired up by Reverend Wright!”

    “Too bad the mastermind behind the biggest, most perfect conspiracy ever couldn’t afford a competent forger!”

    The stupidity of the Tea-Bagger-verse knows no limits.

  177. avatar
    bgansel9 July 24, 2012 at 2:40 pm #

    So the Birthers are now praying for Russian communists to save them? ROTFLMAO! Wow!

  178. avatar
    bgansel9 July 24, 2012 at 2:48 pm #

    Pravda Online is NOT the actual newspaper: http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/pravda.asp

    See the last paragraph for explanation.

  179. avatar
    Potter, J. July 25, 2012 at 9:15 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I might have the Statistical Supplement to the 1961-1962 Hawaii Department of Health Education Annual Report the showing racial breakdowns inconsistent with the Posse table.

    It’s not online, but it is available at many libraries. So indeed you might ;)

    Interlibrary loan brings it within reach …. as do the all-pervasive webs of the Obot army. Heh.

    I don’t have said document, and note with disppointment that Supplements I have seen from Hawaii did not detail coding.

    But I do not that the number pencil’d on the Hawaiian LFBCs that can be found online align very well with colums of table featuring breakdowns by ethnicities in the HDOH Stat Supp’s that are online.

    Could it be that simple? It just might, and makes way more sense than the CCCP explanation, which implies that both ‘0’ and ‘9’ imply blank!

  180. avatar
    Keith July 25, 2012 at 11:21 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy July 25, 2012 at 10:34 pm #

    I am closing this thread because it is too long. Pick one of the other Cold Case Posse articles that are active.

    WAIT! WaitWaitWait! Wait!

    I still gotta a couple of unresolved questions about these coding numbers.

    1) How do data entry encoding numbers penciled onto the birth event document change the information on the document in such a way the the document becomes fraudulent? If the data is incorrectly coded doesn’t that just mean that the Feds count him wrong? One individual out of a million, or perhaps hundreds of Hawai’ians against a million mainlanders?

    2) If the Feds got microfiche from Hawai’i or New York and coded it themselves for their own purposes, and the marks we see are for Hawai’ian internal consumption only, why then does the Feds Statistical Report say that New York supplied a dataset with last years encoding (as you point out in this thread) and they had had to translate it?

    I still think Hawai’i (and New York) sent them a tape, though it may well be that not every State had the capability to send tapes and sent fiche or film instead.

  181. avatar
    The Magic M July 26, 2012 at 7:44 am #

    Keith: How do data entry encoding numbers penciled onto the birth event document change the information on the document in such a way the the document becomes fraudulent?

    It doesn’t. It would only mean it’s a red flag, i.e. something that may warrant further investigation of the document as a whole – after all, one of the typical birther lines is “why is it that so many ‘errors’ are assiociated with every Obama record, nobody else has so many things where people ‘erred’ or ‘goofed'”.
    To their peddlers, it’s all about piling up enough doubt to influence enough voters to not vote for Obama.
    To the crazy followers, it’s “100% proof positive it’s a forgery”.

    Of course, in the sane world it would not mean the BC is invalid or necessarily or likely fraudulent.

    Keith: One individual out of a million, or perhaps hundreds of Hawai’ians against a million mainlanders?

    As long as birthers can say “why, out of all people, would Obama be that one in a million?” to suit their propaganda, it would be a “win” for them, even if it has no legal consequences (as in “OMG this is it, he is ineligible, the frogs start marching!”).

  182. avatar
    Scientist July 26, 2012 at 8:14 am #

    The Magic M: It doesn’t. It would only mean it’s a red flag, i.e. something that may warrant further investigation of the document as a whole – after all, one of the typical birther lines is “why is it that so many ‘errors’ are assiociated with every Obama record, nobody else has so many things where people ‘erred’ or ‘goofed’

    At the risk of repeating myself, Hawaii backs up the document 100%. That means that any “forger” would either be Hawaii itself or have access to everything Hawaii knows, including the codes, which Hawaii would either have in old manuals or could reconstruct from the 17,000 or so 1961 certificates they have.

    As for “errors”, I am really not aware of anything unusual. I suppose some will say “the Connecticut SSN”. Misreading the zip is one theory, and it may be correct. But we can’t rule out that Obama happened to be in CT for a time in 1977 and realized he needed an SSN and applied for one using the address he was staying at there. I know he doesn’t mention it in “Dreams”, but the memoir is not designed to be a comprehensive day-by-day record. Obama has spoken on the campaign trail of traveling around the US with his mother and grandparents and swimming in motel pools. Why not visit historic sites in Connecticut and check out some of the excellent colleges there? We also have had many people here say they or someone they know has an SSN associated with a state they never lived in. That suggests this may be fairly common.

    So, I don’t see any particularly high frequency of errors in Obama’s records, only that people comb through his with a fine-toothed comb. Let’s go through the records of Corsi, Zullo, et al with the same level of vigilance and see if we find any errors. Anyone care to make a bet?

  183. avatar
    JPotter July 26, 2012 at 8:41 am #

    The Magic M: It would only mean it’s a red flag, i.e. something that may warrant further investigation of the document as a whole

    The hell it does. It indicates primarily that the working hypothesis being used to explaing the numbers is suspect.

    Look, the CCCP came across a coded message. Instead of asking the apparent source of the message, HDOH, for the key, they assumed that a completely separate entity, NCHS, was responsible. They then further err’d by simply running with the NCHS code from the wrong time period, simply because it was the earliest easily found online (right on the CDC website). They made a compound assumption. Had they done a little more digging, they would have noted the codes change over time as the system is refined. “Eh, birthers won’t notice, or even care!”

    Well, 1 out of 3 assumptions ain’t bad for a birther.

    I get a coded message with your name on it. Instead of asking you for the explanation, I ask Scientist for his favorite code … from 2019. And insist on making it fit.

    Why didn’t they just ask Hawaii? Because they treat Hawaii as an enemy! They assume Hawaii won’t tell them!

    They can’t get enough BCs to ‘break’ the code, it would be too much work anyway. They are birthers.

    They could break down and do some actual research. How hard would that be?

    For instance, here’s a list of modern race codes from Hawaii:

    http://www.hhdw.org/cms/uploads/Resources/HHDW%20Race%20Ethnicity%20Documentation_2011.pdf

    The DOH ethnicity codes line up with the tables in their annual statistics supplements:

    http://hawaii.gov/health/statistics/vital-statistics/vr_97/birth.pdf
    (See pg. A-2)

    An explanation of how Hawaii assigns ethnicity to a child:

    http://hawaii.gov/health/statistics/vital-statistics/vr_97/notes.pdf

    This is all information from the late 90s. However, the same publications date back to statehood, and Hawaii has published its own vital stats since 1903 (that I know of). The information for 1961 rests in brick-and-mortar libraries. A dedicated researcher would go get it. ;)

    Don’t accept birther assumptions. Do your own research from scratch, and you’ll realize the scale of their fail within minutes!

  184. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 26, 2012 at 9:08 am #

    Our dear Dr. Corsi traveled to Hawaii at his own expense, so says Zullo, to research these things. Did he really just lie on the beach, or did he really go to the library and do honest research? Corsi is only a researcher insofar as it suits his smear campaign. He believes he took down one presidential candidate, Kerry, and he thinks he can take down another.

    I was half-seriously considering going to Hawaii myself to do the research, but I think I can get what I need via interlibrary loan.

    JPotter: This is all information from the late 90s. However, the same publications date back to statehood, and Hawaii has published its own vital stats since 1903 (that I know of). The information for 1961 rests in brick-and-mortar libraries. A dedicated researcher would go get it

  185. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 26, 2012 at 9:11 am #

    The best information I have is that the long form codes were for internal consumption by Hawaii. There were fields coded that are not part of federal data, and the feds only coded even-numbered certificates (Obama’s is odd).

    In 1961, some states provided data instead of microfilm, including New York, Georgia and California. Hawaii was not one of the exceptions.

    Keith: 2) If the Feds got microfiche from Hawai’i or New York and coded it themselves for their own purposes, and the marks we see are for Hawai’ian internal consumption only, why then does the Feds Statistical Report say that New York supplied a dataset with last years encoding (as you point out in this thread) and they had had to translate it?

  186. avatar
    Scientist July 26, 2012 at 9:12 am #

    JPotter: I get a coded message with your name on it. Instead of asking you for the explanation, I ask Scientist for his favorite code … from 2019. And insist on making it fit.

    if I told you, I would have to shoot you.

    JPotter: Why didn’t they just ask Hawaii? Because they treat Hawaii as an enemy! They assume Hawaii won’t tell them!

    Nor has anyone from the CCP contacted the White House. Now, I suspect that they really couldn’t tell you which intern scanned the birth certificate and which settings he/she used, since the White House must deal with I don’t know how many documents/day. To the birthers, this document is the most important one in the history of the universe, but to the intern in the copy room it was #42 in a stack of 76.

    And by the way, foreigner, the job of finding this out rests with the supposed “investigators”/car salesmen. It is entirely their obligation to cover all the bases before crying “fraud!” and no one else’s.

  187. avatar
    Potter, J. July 26, 2012 at 9:15 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I was half-seriously considering going to Hawaii myself to do the research, but I think I can get what I need via interlibrary loan.

    I look forward to the burndown. It won’t convince de birfers that Corsi is Big Kahuna LSOS (if unmasking Vogt didn’t, nothing will!), but solving puzzles is its own pleasure.

    Nice to have things “well settled”. :D

  188. avatar
    Jim July 26, 2012 at 9:50 am #

    JPotter:

    They could break down and do some actual research. How hard would that be?

    Ummmmm, if you haven’t noticed, this isn’t a search for the “truth”.

  189. avatar
    Potter, J. July 26, 2012 at 9:58 am #

    Jim: Ummmmm, if you haven’t noticed, this isn’t a search for the “truth”.

    Well, I don’t know about you, but for some of us it is. :P

    Exposing the truth about the efforts of others to abuse / conceal the truth. The truth itself is pretty darn obvious!