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Amazing fact found in the National Archives: birthers will believe anything

Assuming that you are a rational person and that you haven’t been off-planet for the past few years, you know that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961, and it might come as a shock to you that his father Barack Obama Sr. had an “unnamed son” born in Kenya in 1961.

Nevertheless, that compendium of all things birther, Obama Release Your Records, reported that just such a “fact” had been found in the British National Archives in an article by “Dr. Eowyn.” ORYR later removed their article and replaced it with one containing a disclaimer:

Two very credible sources informed us that records regarding “an unnamed son of Obama Sr. was born in Kenya in 1961” cannot be confirmed as being at the British National Archives. We can’t say anything more until the sources publish their research.

So ORYR admits that they publish unconfirmed rumors — that’s hardly anything new. One need not wait for these unnamed sources because unlike unconfirmed stories about the British National Archives, the United States has archives too, and we know what’s in there.

Archive v. Archive

First, FOIA documents from the US Department of State show that Barack Obama Sr. did not leave the United States at any time between his arrival in 1959 and 1964. That means that if he fathered a son born in 1961, he did it in the United States.

If he did father a son in the United States and that son was born in Kenya, the child is certainly not sitting in the White House, because the US immigration reports also show that no US citizen (e.g. President Obama’s mother) traveled from Kenya to the United States by air for the entire period between July 1, 1961 to June 30, 1962 (boat travel would have taken too long).

The Kenyan government looked into the matter in 2009 and called birther claims “baseless.”

The fools at ORYR should have known better to than publish the story in the first place. It reeks of fakery because it lacks verifiable details, and it no doubt sprung from the story that Jerome Corsi had gone to England to look for something – perhaps the Olympics. This little trip to the archives does, however, give us a little insight into the birther mind. They will believe anything.

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169 Responses to Amazing fact found in the National Archives: birthers will believe anything

  1. avatar
    El Diablo Negro August 26, 2012 at 5:48 pm #

    A while ago I had a feeling that this would be the next birther bacon. When I saw that the CCP was not getting traction, it was the next logical step.

    I am surprised it took this long though. I have always wondered when they claimed dual-citizenship that no one bothered to check the archives. All those years and there never was a check in the British archives. Now it’s crunch time with anonymous (well not so much) sources claiming EUREKA!!

    All that money spent on lawsuits, you would think that some cash would be set aside for a trip across the pond to do some research.

  2. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 26, 2012 at 5:53 pm #

    There’s no reason to conclude that searches of the British National Archives and the Kenyan archives have not already been done, with negative results.

    The government of Kenya researched the question and came up negative way back in 2009.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/08/kenyan-official-confirms-its-all-baseless-claims/

    El Diablo Negro: All that money spent on lawsuits, you would think that some cash would be set aside for a trip across the pond to do some research.

  3. avatar
    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter August 26, 2012 at 6:00 pm #

    I am surprised that the Birthers aren’t suing in British courts to get records. Maybe Mario and Orly could get pro hac vice stuff whatever??? Or, do they sanction lawyers faster in England???

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  4. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 26, 2012 at 6:02 pm #

    I know that it’s a lot easier for a public figure to sue for libel in the UK.

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: I am surprised that the Birthers aren’t suing in British courts to get records. Maybe Mario and Orly could get pro hac vice stuff whatever??? Or, do they sanction lawyers faster in England???

  5. avatar
    gorefan August 26, 2012 at 6:04 pm #

    This is a recycled story from the guys at dailypen. ORYR published it back in July. They still haven’t produced any evidence.

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2012/07/shock-claim-obamas-kenyan-birth-records.html

  6. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 26, 2012 at 6:08 pm #

    Those folks are the worst liars in birtherdom.

    gorefan: This is a recycled story from the guys at dailypen.

  7. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG August 26, 2012 at 8:22 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Those folks are the worst liars in birtherdom.

    So, the proverbial “Double Down” of @#%$ Sandwiches then.

  8. avatar
    Loren August 26, 2012 at 8:51 pm #

    Corsi’s visit to England came after the Daily Pen story. Probably to look for the supposed archive records.

    The fact that he never reported discovering any Kenyan archive records suggests how that quest turned out.

  9. avatar
    Rickey August 26, 2012 at 8:51 pm #

    gorefan:
    This is a recycled story from the guys at dailypen.ORYR published it back in July.They still haven’t produced any evidence.

    I have no doubt that there are birthers who have convinced themselves that a bombshell is being held back and will be released right before the election. The whole idea is to keep them salivating.

    Of course, we are still waiting for someone to produce the Michelle Obama “whitey” tape!

  10. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 26, 2012 at 8:54 pm #

    I wouldn’t put it past some of the birther propagandists to have a false story ready for release close to the election.

    Rickey: I have no doubt that there are birthers who have convinced themselves that a bombshell is being held back and will be released right before the election

  11. avatar
    Paul August 26, 2012 at 8:55 pm #

    Dammit Doc, stop confusing them with facts!

  12. avatar
    Graham Shevlin August 26, 2012 at 8:57 pm #

    Courts in the UK are generally more ready to award costs against plaintiffs for frivolous lawsuits than the courts in the USA. It helps that there is no state-federal split in the UK. If you are declared a vexatious litigant in the UK, that pretty much prevents you from filing any lawsuit in England Scotland or Wales (Scotland having its own separate legal system). The fact that lawyers are not officially supposed to work on contingency in the UK also tends to deter speculative lawsuits.

  13. avatar
    Sudoku August 26, 2012 at 9:14 pm #

    Isn’t what Arpaio and company are promising?

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I wouldn’t put it past some of the birther propagandists to have a false story ready for release close to the election.

  14. avatar
    Keith August 26, 2012 at 9:51 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    There’s no reason to conclude that searches of the British National Archives and the Kenyan archives have not already been done, with negative results.

    The government of Kenya researched the question and came up negative way back in 2009.

    There is, however, a whole lot of new information with potential relevance available since April 2012.

    Foreign and Commonwealth Office migrated archives

    I urge you to read that Wikipedia article, it is fascinating and I can’t wait for the inevitable book. For the impatient here is the overview of history of the documents:

    The Foreign and Commonwealth Office migrated archives are sensitive and incriminating collections of documents from Britain’s former colonial governments that were sent back to the UK (hence migrated) on the eve of decolonisation for storage in the FCO archives to avoid their disclosure and subsequent embarrassment to Her Majesty’s Government

    Between 1963 and 1994 the migrated archives were stored in Hayes repository; in 1994 they were moved to Hanslope Park, home of Her Majesty’s Government Communications Centre, to save on storage costs. In 1967, in 1974, and again in the early 1980s, Kenya asked for them to be released, but the UK refused…

    Under the Public Records Act, documents are liable for release to the National Archives after 30 years…

    Once at Hanslope, reviewing documents for release is a job for 17 part-time “sensitivity reviewers”, mostly retired Foreign Office officials; it is rare for a file to be judged sensitive enough to warrant withholding it in entirety. When it came to the migrated archives, however, the question of whether they fell within the scope of the Public Records Act was never answered definitively, and so they were conveniently left undisturbed in archival stasis

    In 2005, two Freedom of Information (FoI) requests were submitted to the FCO by researchers wanting Mau Mau-era government files. The second request was very specific, and did not warrant checking the migrated archives, but the first request should have warranted such a check, yet none was made….

    It was only the persistence of a handful of FCO officials, notably Edward Inglett, and a witness statement by Oxford professor David Anderson in December 2010 alleging “systematic withholding by HMG of 1500 files in 300 boxes taking up 100 linear feet”, that eventually resulted in the migrated archives coming to light in January 2011….

    Upon their ‘discovery’, Foreign Secretary William Hague requested Anthony Cary, a former British High Commissioner to Canada, to conduct an internal review into why the migrated archives had been spotlighted neither by the FoI requests nor by the initial Court Disclosure request….

    “Embarrassment hardly covers it,” remarked a Times editorial, noting that “the covert history of colonial administration in Kenya bears comparison to the methods of torture and summary execution in the French war in Algeria.” In April 2011, the government officially admitted for the first time not merely to having relevant Mau Mau documents, but that it had a total of 8,800 files from 37 ex-colonies, which it would make public in batches from April 2012 to November 2013. The Times opined: “Even given the Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s apparent skill in such matters, it is quite a feat to ignore 300 boxes of documents filling 110ft of shelving for almost half a century.”…

    After the Cary investigation, Hague appointed Cambridge’s Tony Badger as “colonial files tsar” to oversee the review and transfer of the hidden files to the public domain. The Foreign Office duly released a first batch of more than 1,200 records from 12 former colonial territories in April 2012, a portion of some 10,000 files that Britain removed from 37 of its colonies. Badger described the migrated archives episode as “embarrassing, scandalous. . . . These documents should have been in the public archives in the 1980s. It’s long overdue.

    I met Dr. Badger on his recent visit to Australia and he indicated that the records have details of Obama Sr.’s foreign study and the related airlift and that is all.

  15. avatar
    Tony Aversano August 27, 2012 at 12:02 am #

    It must be great to be such so much smarter than everyone else. You have all the answers. Guess what, when the truth comes to light, you will be the one on the receiving end of the jokes.

    Obama lied and misrepresented himself as having been born in Kenya. It was not only in his literary agent’s author publication in 1991, it was on their website from 2007 until the month after Obama declared his intention to run for President. This doesn’t prove that he was born in Kenya, but it does prove he will promote his Kenyan roots when it suits him. Obama had Kenyan citizenship until at least his early 20’s, and I am not sure if he ever lost his British citizenship. It may not seem likely, but there is definitely at least a remote possibility that Obama applied to schools as a foreign citizen. If you don’t think that there is even the remotest chance that Obama might have used his Kenyan citizenship to game the system when he applied to colleges, you are a hell of a lot less smart than you think you are, or incredibly dishonest. If you don’t think people use their heritage to gain an advantage, talk to Elizabeth Warren about her Native American status.

  16. avatar
    Graham Shevlin August 27, 2012 at 12:12 am #

    Obama lost his initial UK citizenship early in his life, as a quick trip to Factcheck.org will easily confirm. Most of your article is based on easily disproved assertions and juvenile smears. Is this the best that you can do?

  17. avatar
    Sudoku August 27, 2012 at 12:29 am #

    Read something other than Birther sites and come back.

    Tony Aversano: It must be great to be such so much smarter than everyone else. You have all the answers. Guess what, when the truth comes to light, you will be the one on the receiving end of the jokes.

  18. avatar
    Rickey August 27, 2012 at 12:30 am #

    Tony Aversano:
    It must be great to be such so much smarter than everyone else.You have all the answers.

    Thank you for noticing.

  19. avatar
    Rickey August 27, 2012 at 12:43 am #

    Tony Aversano:

    Obama lied and misrepresented himself as having been born in Kenya.It was not only in his literary agent’s author publication in 1991, it was on their website from 2007 until the month after Obama declared his intention to run for President.

    Obama announced on January 17, 2007 that he would formally declare his candidacy on February 10, 2007.

    In 1995 – 12 years earlier – he published a best-selling memoir which states that he was born in Hawaii. A 1990 New York Times article says that he was born in Hawaii.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/06/us/first-black-elected-to-head-harvard-s-law-review.html

    So which were more widely read – his best-selling memoir, the New York Times article, or an obscure biographical sketch written by a public relations person who has said that what she wrote was a mistake on her part?

    You birthers are pathetic.

  20. avatar
    gorefan August 27, 2012 at 12:54 am #

    Tony Aversano: Obama lied and misrepresented himself as having been born in Kenya

    Not according to the person who wrote the bio.

    “”This was nothing more than a fact checking error by me–an agency assistant at the time,” Goderich wrote in an emailed statement to Yahoo News. “There was never any information given to us by Obama in any of his correspondence or other communications suggesting in any way that he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii. I hope you can communicate to your readers that this was a simple mistake and nothing more.””

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/born-kenya-obamas-literary-agent-misidentified-birthplace-1991/story?id=16372566

  21. avatar
    Paper August 27, 2012 at 1:38 am #

    You misunderstand. The birthers I know are intelligent people. You may be as well. It takes a measure of intelligence to make up so much b.s. and to keep finding ways to avoid acknowledging the simple, plain truth that any dimwit can appreciate within five minutes, that President Obama was born in Hawaii.

    The difference between us is we ask the simple, straightforward questions. Birthers are the ones with all the complicated answers.

    Tony Aversano:
    It must be great to be such so much smarter than everyone else.You have all the answers.

  22. avatar
    gorefan August 27, 2012 at 2:07 am #

    Tony Aversano: it does prove he will promote his Kenyan roots when it suits him.

    Here is a compilation of statements about President Obama being born in Hawaii.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/06/colb-happy-4th/

  23. avatar
    bob j August 27, 2012 at 3:15 am #

    Tony Aversano: It may not seem likely, but there is definitely at least a remote possibility that Obama applied to schools as a foreign citizen

    Not a remote possibility. Not even a smidgen of a possibility. He was born in Hawaii. I may not be very smart, but I know that Hawaii is in America. The only way being Kenyan would help get someone into an American college is if that Kenyan can run 10 kilometers in 28 minutes.

  24. avatar
    The Magic M August 27, 2012 at 4:39 am #

    bob j: The only way being Kenyan would help get someone into an American college is if that Kenyan can run 10 kilometers in 28 minutes.

    Maybe the Daily Pen would like to run a piece on Obama being the result of mixing genetic information from Jesse Owens, Malcolm X, Frank Marshall Davis and Paul Kipkoech’s father, making him not only the first black President but also the first test tube baby President? 😉 I wouldn’t put it past them.

    Dr. Conspiracy: I wouldn’t put it past some of the birther propagandists to have a false story ready for release close to the election.

    But given they’ve made up stuff about pretty much anything even remotely related to Obama by now (including painting even his real parents as die-hard commies), what would that possibly be? (Oh, I can see it already, birthers going “Obots in panic about what will be released”…)

    I can only guess “another Kenyan birth certificate”. It would be logical in many ways – it would mean they’ve come full circle (as some of the first birther “evidence” were fake Kenyan BC’s), it would be a rather simple thing to confuse some voters (instead of boring them with contrived two-citizen-parent blather), it might even get them some quick approval of their “experts” (“looks legit to me”) and Clown Joe (“I cannot prove it’s not real”).

  25. avatar
    Lupin August 27, 2012 at 6:18 am #

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: Or, do they sanction lawyers faster in England???

    They assess costs against the losing party.

  26. avatar
    American Mzungu August 27, 2012 at 7:15 am #

    Tony Aversano: Guess what, when the truth comes to light, you will be the one on the receiving end of the jokes.

    You express a strong faith that “the truth” about Obama is radically different from what is known about Obama from current sources. Why do you resist provisionally accepting Obama on the face of the evidence already known? Historians will always bring forward new facts and new interpretations of known facts to modify the historical person. However, you seem to reject current views based on some faith in a future “truth” that you already “know.” Why?

  27. avatar
    The Magic M August 27, 2012 at 7:45 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I know that it’s a lot easier for a public figure to sue for libel in the UK.

    I don’t think Obama will ever dignify any birther by suing him for libel, anywhere in the world.

    Although some cranks try to use that as an argument in their favour (“if I were lying, I would’ve been sued by now”), it’s the same reason we don’t take the time to battle an individual amoeba sitting on our neck.

    The mere thought that Obama could possibly consider such a thing (and that the only thing preventing him are the more lenient US laws) is giving birthers an importance that only they themselves think they have.

  28. avatar
    Scientist August 27, 2012 at 7:45 am #

    bob j: The only way being Kenyan would help get someone into an American college is if that Kenyan can run 10 kilometers in 28 minutes.

    The birthers seem to believe that prestigious US universities are anxious to recruit bad students from overseas, as if there is a shortage of home-grown dolts. The truth is that the admission standards for foreign students at US colleges are at least as demanding as for US students (plus they must show proficiency in Engllsh through the TOEFL exam). Nor would foreign citizenship give an advantage to someone graduating from a US high school, as Obama did. Nor are there fantastic, easy-to-get scholarships for undergraduate studies by foreign students. Most of them either come from well-off families, who pay the freight, or have their tution paid by their home government on condition that they return there for a specified period (which the US government will ensure they do by not extending their visa).

  29. avatar
    JD Reed August 27, 2012 at 8:09 am #

    The Magic M: I don’t think Obama will ever dignify any birther by suing him for libel, anywhere in the world.Although some cranks try to use that as an argument in their favour (“if I were lying, I would’ve been sued by now”), it’s the same reason we don’t take the time to battle an individual amoeba sitting on our neck.The mere thought that Obama could possibly consider such a thing (and that the only thing preventing him are the more lenient US laws) is giving birthers an importance that only they themselves think they have.

    A president is almost libel-proof, as it would be far beneath the dignity of the office to reach down and sue somebody who’s spreading barnyard waste against him. See New York Times v Sullivan, 1964: “…debate on public issues should be uninhibited, robust, and wide-open…”
    Howeever, a presidential candidate can win, as evidenced by Barry Goldwater’s vistory over a left-wing rag that purported to psychoanalyze him and find him to be certifiably crazy. The question is, how would this play out if the presidential candidate were a former president?

    I think John Kerry missed the boat (pun incidental) by not suing Corsi after the 1964 election.

  30. avatar
    Paper August 27, 2012 at 8:29 am #

    Just one small correction: Birthers actually won’t believe anything. They do have standards after all. They’ll never believe Barack Obama is eligible to be President.

  31. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG August 27, 2012 at 8:56 am #

    Tony Aversano:
    Guess what, when the truth comes to light, you will be the one on the receiving end of the jokes.

    Well, no one made me the butt of any jokes any of the many times his Identity was confirmed, so I’m not sure where you are going with that.

    Paper:
    Just one small correction: Birthers actually won’t believe anything.They do have standards after all.They’ll never believe Barack Obama is eligible to be President.

    Much in the same way white supremacists won’t. I real think that birtherism is an offshoot of the white supremacist movement. As for how there can be people like Alan Keyes tagging along for the ride, I think “self-hater” sums it up.

  32. avatar
    Lupin August 27, 2012 at 9:31 am #

    Scientist: The truth is that the admission standards for foreign students at US colleges are at least as demanding as for US students (plus they must show proficiency in Engllsh through the TOEFL exam).

    The TOEFL *and* your SATs. I had to take both when I was at University here (in France, I mean in Paris) to attend NYU. Despite having already a French baccalaureat and a MA equivalent from my University.

    Once again the birthers’ understanding of what we here refer to as “reality” is the weak force that glues their movement together. (I’m mixing my physics metaphors here.)

  33. avatar
    Lupin August 27, 2012 at 9:33 am #

    Tony AversanoIf you don’t think people use their heritage to gain an advantage, talk to Elizabeth Warren about her Native American status.

    I think it’s disgusting how rich white people use their heritage to gain an advantage, don’t you?

  34. avatar
    James M August 27, 2012 at 9:50 am #

    Tony Aversano: It may not seem likely, but there is definitely at least a remote possibility that Obama applied to schools as a foreign citizen.

    If you have evidence of fraud, then produce it.

  35. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 27, 2012 at 9:50 am #

    If the truth has not come to light, how do you claim to know it? Intuition? Divine revelation? I have a commitment to base the conclusions made on this site on evidence from reliable sources. Even if I am wrong, there is nothing dishonorable about my methods and nothing to make jokes about.

    It is those guided by prejudice that deserve ridicule.

    Tony Aversano: Guess what, when the truth comes to light, you will be the one on the receiving end of the jokes.

  36. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG August 27, 2012 at 9:54 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:

    It is those guided by prejudice that deserve ridicule.

    And of course, those guided by willful ignorance and stupidity!

  37. avatar
    James M August 27, 2012 at 9:55 am #

    Scientist: The birthers seem to believe that prestigious US universities are anxious to recruit bad students from overseas, as if there is a shortage of home-grown dolts.

    One problem is that we are dealing with a segment that has set foot on a college campus to attend a sporting event, if at all.

    The people out there who demand “Obama’s college transcripts” don’t even know what those transcripts would look like. It seems not to occur to them that the financial aid forms aren’t part of the transcript.

  38. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 27, 2012 at 9:55 am #

    There is no one who has any evidence that Obama ever told anyone he was born in Kenya. The brochure, according to the author, was a mistake not based on any information from Obama. Now you can either believe this evidence, or you can rely on your imagination. Obama has Kenyan roots; look at the cover and content of his book, Dreams from My Father. He has a right to promote his heritage if he wants to, but he never said he was born in Kenya, only that his father’s family was from there.

    Tony Aversano: Obama lied and misrepresented himself as having been born in Kenya. It was not only in his literary agent’s author publication in 1991, it was on their website from 2007 until the month after Obama declared his intention to run for President. This doesn’t prove that he was born in Kenya, but it does prove he will promote his Kenyan roots when it suits him.

  39. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater August 27, 2012 at 9:57 am #

    Tony Aversano: It must be great to be such so much smarter than everyone else. You have all the answers. Guess what, when the truth comes to light, you will be the one on the receiving end of the jokes. Obama lied and misrepresented himself as having been born in Kenya. It was not only in his literary agent’s author publication in 1991, it was on their website from 2007 until the month after Obama declared his intention to run for President. This doesn’t prove that he was born in Kenya, but it does prove he will promote his Kenyan roots when it suits him. Obama had Kenyan citizenship until at least his early 20′s, and I am not sure if he ever lost his British citizenship. It may not seem likely, but there is definitely at least a remote possibility that Obama applied to schools as a foreign citizen. If you don’t think that there is even the remotest chance that Obama might have used his Kenyan citizenship to game the system when he applied to colleges, you are a hell of a lot less smart than you think you are, or incredibly dishonest. If you don’t think people use their heritage to gain an advantage, talk to Elizabeth Warren about her Native American status.

    Well besides what others picked apart from the NY Times and LA Times both writing articles in 1990 saying he was born in Hawaii, his books and multiple articles from then until now saying he was born in Hawaii compared to some obscure bio sketch that never saw the light of day lets talk about the claim of applying as a foreign student.

    It makes absolutely no sense. Obama spent only 4 years outside the US. The rest of the time he was in American Schools from primary to junior high to high school. There is no way he could be considered a foreign student.

  40. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 27, 2012 at 10:04 am #

    Obama was a citizen of the UK and colonies at birth and remained so until that citizenship was removed by the Kenya Independence Act in 1964 when he became a citizen of Kenya and a UK commonwealth citizen. When he lost his Kenyan citizenship at age 23 for failing to declare allegiance to Kenya and renouncing his US citizenship, he was no longer a commonwealth citizen.

    There is an extensive analysis of the various British legislation underpinning the preceding statement that you can find through the Debunker’s Guide.

    Tony Aversano: Obama had Kenyan citizenship until at least his early 20′s, and I am not sure if he ever lost his British citizenship

  41. avatar
    Scientist August 27, 2012 at 10:06 am #

    James M: One problem is that we are dealing with a segment that has set foot on a college campus to attend a sporting event, if at all. The people out there who demand “Obama’s college transcripts” don’t even know what those transcripts would look like. It seems not to occur to them that the financial aid forms aren’t part of the transcript.

    Nor would a transcript list citizenship, or what criteria was used to admit that person. Admissions criteria (i.e, affirmative action or other preference programs) would be something that colleges would normally refuse to release even if the candidate wanted them made public. Anything pertaining to the admissions decision belongs to the college, not the student, and I would expect them to go to court to vigorously defend their right to keep that confidential.

  42. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 27, 2012 at 10:10 am #

    No, there isn’t even a remote possibility of this. The idea was based on an April Fool joke, and is completely and utterly impossible and without any evidentiary support. One cannot apply to college as a “foreign student” after graduating from a US High School.

    The fact that a birther can imagine something is does not mean that it is possible.

    Tony Aversano: It may not seem likely, but there is definitely at least a remote possibility that Obama applied to schools as a foreign citizen.

  43. avatar
    Jules August 27, 2012 at 10:20 am #

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: I am surprised that the Birthers aren’t suing in British courts to get records. Maybe Mario and Orly could get pro hac vice stuff whatever??? Or, do they sanction lawyers faster in England???

    To initiate legal action for failure to provide information, the birthers would need to assert some statutory or common law right to the information in question.

    The usual right to information is by way of a request under s. 1 Freedom of Information Act 2000. However, there are exceptions contained within the Act. Any request for records held on Obama by the Home Office would be subject to the exception under s. 40 for personal information.

    Under s. 7 Data Protection Act 1998, Obama has a right to access personal data held on him by the Home Office. However, birthers would most certainly not have a right to access such information on his behalf.

    An exception to the above is for birth records. Had Obama been born in England or Wales, then anyone would have the ability under the Births and Deaths Registration Act 1953 to order a copy of his birth certificate from the General Register Office. I suspect that no birther has alleged a birth in England precisely because such an allegation could be easily tested and disproved.

    In any event, the Home Office is most unlikely to hold anything of interest about Obama. It is most unlikely that his birth was ever registered with the UK consulate or that a British passport was ever sought in his name. Obama and his family were very much in Hawaii until the time of Kenyan independence, at which point the UK would no longer have dealt with passport issuance for Kenyans. He never would have had any need for a Kenyan passport in any event, as he only visited Kenya after he ceased to be a dual national by operation of Kenyan law (at which point he had only the US citizenship that he had held from birth). Obama first travelled abroad when he went with his mother and step-father to Indonesia, when his own father was out of the picture. He only ever visited the UK after reaching adulthood; if a record of this was kept by the Home Office in respect of Obama’s travel to the UK, then it would presumably just show that he was granted leave to enter as a visitor.

    If any birther wished to seek disclosure from Obama via the courts of England & Wales, then they would need to have some sort of claim in which such disclosure was relevant. I cannot see what sort of claim they could conceivably make against Obama here.

    Although wasted costs orders are used relatively sparingly, they would be appropriate against any lawyer who tried the antics of Orly Taitz.

  44. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 27, 2012 at 10:23 am #

    I complete agree.

    The Magic M: I don’t think Obama will ever dignify any birther by suing him for libel, anywhere in the world.

  45. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG August 27, 2012 at 10:50 am #

    Just quit while you’re behind, Tony.

  46. avatar
    LW August 27, 2012 at 11:34 am #

    Paul Moore: It must be nice to always believe you know better, to always think you’re the smartest person in the room.
    Jane Craig: No. It’s awful.
    Broadcast News

  47. avatar
    American Mzungu August 27, 2012 at 11:50 am #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Just quit while you’re behind, Tony.

    NO. NO. NO. That will only confirm that you are a loser. A drive-by poster. Another David or Palamas. You need to go back through the posts and systematically answer the critiques/questions. Show us what you’re made of, Tony. 🙂

  48. avatar
    Rickey August 27, 2012 at 12:16 pm #

    bob j: The only way being Kenyan would help get someone into an American college is if that Kenyan can run 10 kilometers in 28 minutes.

    I’ve often wondered about the birther theory that being a foreigner is somehow a plus when applying to a college or university. I suspect that it is a manifestation of both xenophobia and resentment of policies such as affirmative action.

    Another thing is the birther fantasy that Obama was being groomed to be President since his birth. How does Occidental fit into that equation? I have nothing against Occidental, which apparently is a fine college, but wouldn’t it have made more sense to have Obama go to Columbia right out of high school?

  49. avatar
    Woodrowfan August 27, 2012 at 12:49 pm #

    Smarter than a birther? low hurdle. It;’s like being a faster runner than a mushroom…

  50. avatar
    BillTheCat August 27, 2012 at 1:11 pm #

    Tony Aversano: It must be great to be such so much smarter than everyone else. You have all the answers. Guess what, when the truth comes to light, you will be the one on the receiving end of the jokes.

    ANY. DAY. NOW.

    Stop confusing truth with fantasy, champ.

  51. avatar
    misha August 27, 2012 at 1:17 pm #

    Tony Aversano: Guess what, when the truth comes to light, you will be the one on the receiving end of the jokes.

    I agree with you. Ignore the naive liberals here. I found a Kenya BC (Obama’s?) that’s going to bite him!!

  52. avatar
    Thomas Brown August 27, 2012 at 1:27 pm #

    American Mzungu: Show us what you’re made of, Tony.

    Just be sure you have a lot of kitty litter, Clorox and Purel on hand when he does.

  53. avatar
    sfjeff August 27, 2012 at 1:57 pm #

    Tony Aversano: It must be great to be such so much smarter than everyone else. You have all the answers. Guess what, when the truth comes to light, you will be the one on the receiving end of the jokes.
    Obama lied and misrepresented himself as having been born in Kenya. It was not only in his literary agent’s author publication in 1991, it was on their website from 2007 until the month after Obama declared his intention to run for President. This doesn’t prove that he was born in Kenya, but it does prove he will promote his Kenyan roots when it suits him.

    He didn’t of course. This was an obscure pamphlet that probably no more than a few thousand people ever saw- it was for the book trade- Obama’s ‘bio’ was one of over 80 aspiring authors.

    Meanwhile- in every major publication that mentioned his place of birth- from his birth on, his place of birth was noted as HAWAII
    We know of course that his birth was announced in two Hawaiian newspapers in 1961. After that there is a lull until 1990- when young Barack Obama was interviewed by most of the major newspapers because he was the first African American seleced to be the head of the Harvard Law Review

    Let me put it in perspective for you:
    [B]New York Times,[/B] February 6, 1990 – daily circution- 1,586,757- Obama born in Hawaii
    Chicago Tribune, February 7, 1990- daily circulation 414,590- Obama born in Hawaii
    Washington Post, February 8, 1990- daily circulation 507.615- Obama born in Hawaii
    Chicago Daily Herald, May 3, 1990– daily circulation 15,190- Obama born in Hawaii
    Columbia Today, Fall 1990- Obama born in Hawaii
    Obscure promotional brochure paragraph- Obama born in Kenya
    Chicago Magazine, January 1993- circulation 165,000- Obama born in Hawaii
    Chicago Tribune, Feb 10, 1993- 414,590- Obama born in Hawaii
    [B]Los Angeles Times,[/B] August 7, 1995- daily circulation 605,243 – Obama born in Hawaii
    “Dreams from My Father” 1995- millions of copies sold – Obama born in Hawaii
    Barack Obama State Senate Webpage, October 1, 1999 – Obama born in Hawaii
    Chicago Daily Herald, January 22, 2003- 15,190 – Obama born in Hawaii
    [B]Time Magazine,[/B] June 24, 2004- circulation 3,276.882 – Obama born in Hawaii

    So explain to me- how exactly did Obama go around ‘allowing people to believe that he was born in Kenya” when every actual publication from before the brochure and after the brochure said he was born in Hawaii- including his 1995 book and his 1999 webpage?

    I mean if Obama was trying to fool anyone about him being born in Kenya- he was doing an abysmally poor job of it since millions of people had read about him being born in Hawaii.

    Explain that one to me- this whole “Obama was telling everyone he was born in Kenya” fiction just doesn’t fit with what American readers were actually being told.

  54. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG August 27, 2012 at 2:01 pm #

    Woodrowfan:
    Smarter than a birther? low hurdle.It;’s like being a faster runner than a mushroom…

    Challenge accepted!

  55. avatar
    American Mzungu August 27, 2012 at 2:06 pm #

    Thomas Brown: Just be sure you have a lot of kitty litter, Clorox and Purel on hand when he does.

    This week I’m taking care of the neighbor’s 14 and 18-year-old cats. They are hit-and-miss artists with the littler box. At least it’s in the neighbor’s basement. Cleaning up after Tony can’t be nearly as bad as cleaning up after those cats. I think I’ll rename them Tony and David.

    It’s been more than 26 hours since he last deposited his stuff here. IMO, he’s not coming back—at least not as Tony.

  56. avatar
    JD Reed August 27, 2012 at 3:08 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: No, there isn’t even a remote possibility of this. The idea was based on an April Fool joke, and is completely and utterly impossible and without any evidentiary support. One cannot apply to college as a “foreign student” after graduating from a US High School.The fact that a birther can imagine something is does not mean that it is possible.

    Point well takn about there being not a remote possibility. But what if there was only a remote possibility? Remote possibility = grasping at straws. If you’re going to try to disqualify a president, you need overpowering evidence, not weak “remote possiblities.”

  57. avatar
    JoZeppy August 27, 2012 at 3:29 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: No, there isn’t even a remote possibility of this. The idea was based on an April Fool joke, and is completely and utterly impossible and without any evidentiary support. One cannot apply to college as a “foreign student” after graduating from a US High School.
    The fact that a birther can imagine something is does not mean that it is possible.
    Tony Aversano: It may not seem likely, but there is definitely at least a remote possibility that Obama applied to schools as a foreign citizen.

    Now my question is, what is that statement even supposed to mean? By that justification “Tony” and his ilk can pretty much get away with anything. Afterall, it may not seem likely, but there is definitely at least a remote possiblity that Romeny and Ryan have wild gay sex in the back of the campaign bus while traveling the country. When you set the level of what you’re willing to consider as not only lacking any evidence, based on an April fools joke, and not likely but has at least a remote possibility….well then, perhaps we should have a discussion about the possibility that Ronald Reagan regularly molested squirrels in the rose garden.

    Do these folks even think about the insanity of what they propose?

  58. avatar
    Greenfinches August 27, 2012 at 3:29 pm #

    Woodrowfan: being a faster runner than a mushroom…

    oh my I don’t know when so few words have left me laughing so so much!!!

    THANK YOU!

  59. avatar
    gorefan August 27, 2012 at 3:34 pm #

    JoZeppy: Ronald Reagan regularly molested squirrels in the rose garden.

    “Hey little squirrel, you want some acorns?”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkbppiCbXgg

  60. avatar
    Sudoku August 27, 2012 at 4:05 pm #

    What? Are you saying it doesn’t state natural born or foreigner on a college transcript? It doesn’t show whether tuition is paid in dollars or shillings? Since when? Curses, he must have gotten to the universities now, too! What is a birther to do? Thank goodness for the reliably unreliable internet rumors. They still have those.

    James M: The people out there who demand “Obama’s college transcripts” don’t even know what those transcripts would look like. It seems not to occur to them that the financial aid forms aren’t part of the transcript.

  61. avatar
    JoZeppy August 27, 2012 at 5:31 pm #

    gorefan: “Hey little squirrel, you want some acorns?”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkbppiCbXgg

    OK…that’s pretty freaky (my squirrel comment was made without the slightest clue that conversation even existed).

  62. avatar
    gorefan August 27, 2012 at 6:29 pm #

    JoZeppy: OK…that’s pretty freaky

    I’m convinced that if you google search for any random string of words, you’ll turn up a youtube video that matches them.

  63. avatar
    john August 27, 2012 at 10:07 pm #

    “There is no one who has any evidence that Obama ever told anyone he was born in Kenya.”

    Not necessarily. A Marine in Hawaii has come forward and has stated that he actually talked to Obama as young man and that Obama told him he was born in Kenya. The Marine really has no proof since the conversation took place 30 years ago. However, the Marine is certain that the black man he talked to was Barack Obama and that he told him he was born in Kenya. The conversation was 30 years ago, so the Marine is not 100% certain but still quite certain.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx0XcTmYtSE
    Marine: 1980 In Hi. Obama Told Me He Was Born In Kenya And Wanted To Be President.

  64. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 28, 2012 at 12:14 am #

    Well, as I taught my children: if it’s too good to be true, it probably isn’t. Young Obama could have been messing with him, but more likely the conversation never took place given the solid documentation that Barack Obama wasn’t born in Kenya.

    john: A Marine in Hawaii has come forward and has stated that he actually talked to Obama as young man and that Obama told him he was born in Kenya.

  65. avatar
    Lancelot Link August 28, 2012 at 12:16 am #

    You think you’re so smart? Well, I have evidence – real evidence – that Obama is not what he says he is.

  66. avatar
    LW August 28, 2012 at 12:21 am #

    john: The conversation was 30 years ago, so the Marine is not 100% certain but still quite certain.

    Marine: 1980 In Hi. Obama Told Me He Was Born In Kenya And Wanted To Be President.

    This is going to sound awfully convenient, but I had forgotten this conversation until now.

    You see: I was there. I remember it like it was yesterday. The marine was there, Obama was there, and I was there. I remember Obama, as clear as day, saying “I was boring as a Ken doll, and I’d like to be prescient.”

    The marine, and this is the memorable part, then sprouted leathery wings and flew away. You don’t forget that kind of thing in a hurry, although I guess you actually can if I didn’t remember it until just now.

    So I’m not 100% certain this happened, but I’m still quite certain.

  67. avatar
    JD Reed August 28, 2012 at 12:22 am #

    john: “There is no one who has any evidence that Obama ever told anyone he was born in Kenya.”Not necessarily. A Marine in Hawaii has come forward and has stated that he actually talked to Obama as young man and that Obama told him he was born in Kenya. The Marine really has no proof since the conversation took place 30 years ago. However, the Marine is certain that the black man he talked to was Barack Obama and that he told him he was born in Kenya. The conversation was 30 years ago, so the Marine is not 100% certain but still quite certain.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx0XcTmYtSEMarine: 1980 In Hi. Obama Told Me He Was Born In Kenya And Wanted To Be President.

    John, John, John … still graspting at the flimsiest of straws.

  68. avatar
    misha August 28, 2012 at 12:28 am #

    LW: So I’m not 100% certain this happened, but I’m still quite certain.

    No, you are correct – I was there with you.

  69. avatar
    Sudoku August 28, 2012 at 1:17 am #

    That is the key. Evidence.

    john: …evidence…

  70. avatar
    gorefan August 28, 2012 at 1:24 am #

    john: A Marine in Hawaii

    So a marine, on leave in Honolulu, Hawaii strolls into a store, he doesn’t remember which store or where it was located but he remembers a long conversation he had with an 18 year old man who was in the store. The marine claims the young man said he was born in Mobassa and was going to be President. The marine, who was on leave in Honolulu, Hawaii, was so giddy with excitement from talking to the young man that he rushed back to the barracks to get the photos he took in Mobassa to show to the young man and to entice other marines, who were also on leave in Honolulu, Hawaii, to return with him to the store to talk to the young man and to show him their pictures.

    Does that sum up the story, John?

  71. avatar
    James M August 28, 2012 at 1:52 am #

    john:
    “There is no one who has any evidence that Obama ever told anyone he was born in Kenya.”

    Not necessarily.A Marine in Hawaii has come forward and has stated that he actually talked to Obama as young man and that Obama told him he was born in Kenya.The Marine really has no proof since the conversation took place 30 years ago.However, the Marine is certain that the black man he talked to was Barack Obama and that he told him he was born in Kenya.The conversation was 30 years ago, so the Marine is not 100% certain but still quite certain.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx0XcTmYtSE
    Marine: 1980 In Hi. Obama Told Me He Was Born In Kenya And Wanted To Be President.

    Well, that settles it. Why is he making youtube videos and not testifying before a Congressional Committee then?

  72. avatar
    G August 28, 2012 at 2:03 am #

    LOL! 😉

    gorefan: “Hey little squirrel, you want some acorns?”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkbppiCbXgg

  73. avatar
    Lupin August 28, 2012 at 2:44 am #

    LW: This is going to sound awfully convenient, but I had forgotten this conversation until now.

    You see: I was there. I remember it like it was yesterday. The marine was there, Obama was there, and I was there. I remember Obama, as clear as day, saying “I was boring as a Ken doll, and I’d like to be prescient.”

    The marine, and this is the memorable part, then sprouted leathery wings and flew away. You don’t forget that kind of thing in a hurry, although I guess you actually can if I didn’t remember it until just now.

    So I’m not 100% certain this happened, but I’m still quite certain.

    I was there too and I remember that there was a duck in the room.

    And Groucho Marx.

  74. avatar
    john August 28, 2012 at 4:45 am #

    I always found the Marine’s story cooraborating because the Marine states that this young black man he talked to told him wanted to be President someday. If one recalls, another black man who was closely connected to the Aryer’s family for his education funding, did tell Postman Al that he wanted to be President someday too.

  75. avatar
    The Magic M August 28, 2012 at 4:50 am #

    john: Marine: 1980 In Hi. Obama Told Me He Was Born In Kenya And Wanted To Be President.

    The funny thing is, if you add in the Ayers’ postman, there is a pattern of a young Obama telling everyone and his dog that he was going to be President. I wonder, then, why we only have two such accounts.

    john: and that he told him he was born in Kenya

    And then the Marine said “but you can’t since you’re not a natural born citizen” and young Obama replied “ah, don’t worry, everything has been taken care of” and then the Marine inquired “what do you mean?” and then Obama’s face turned evil for a moment, then he smiled and whispered “if I told you, I’d have to kill you – or they would”? Yup, sounds credible.

    These stories oddly remind me of those urban legends where people claimed that a drunk Arab had warned them not to go near NYC on or about 9/11.

  76. avatar
    Interestedbystander August 28, 2012 at 5:38 am #

    The marine that claims he met Obama in Hawaii is freeper Racebannon and his claims have been long debunked, notably by Loren at Fogbow. He was a birther for quite a while before he ‘remembered’ this encounter, and other tall tales of his have been proven lies, although he continues to tell them even after admitting they couldn’t be true. He is a highly unreliable witness – but I’m sure that won’t concern John.

  77. avatar
    SF August 28, 2012 at 7:01 am #

    “Race Banner” believes he asked the young man he says he met in 1980 if he was military.

    Because this guy looks so military:

    http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1866765_1815160,00.html

    john:

    A Marine in Hawaii has come forward and has stated that he actually talked to Obama as young man and that Obama told him he was born in Kenya.

  78. avatar
    SF August 28, 2012 at 7:41 am #

    I have military in my family. My father was a Marine. I find this tale disgraceful.

    There are a couple of points in this telling that jump out as signs of deception.

    One, as already mentioned, Race thought the young man might be in the military because he was a rare African-American in Hawaii. Never mind Barack Obama’s obvious military bearing at the age of eighteen, as clear in those pictures linked to above. Not.

    Two, mulatto? He recognized him as “mulatto?” Maybe you give Race this one, but it is an odd detail to highlight.

    Three, Race tosses into his tale that he knows of no one from various schools, including a Hawaiian school, who has come forward to say they knew Obama. This detail has nothing to do with the story he is telling of meeting a young man, and it is false. Race may not know of any such people, but if true that is because he hasn’t bothered to look. So he disgraces the Marines by dropping in a false point to make someone, the President, look bad, a point that is easily disproven, either because he is the most incompetent Marine ever or he is knowingly telling a lie.

    And if that is how he rolls, the rest of his story is military-grade sewage. Well, maybe not military-grade, more like kindergarten-grade.

    john:

    A Marine in Hawaii has come forward and has stated that he actually talked to Obama as young man and that Obama told him he was born in Kenya.

  79. avatar
    Scientist August 28, 2012 at 8:01 am #

    john: Not necessarily. A Marine in Hawaii has come forward and has stated that he actually talked to Obama as young man and that Obama told him he was born in Kenya. The Marine really has no proof since the conversation took place 30 years ago. However, the Marine is certain that the black man he talked to was Barack Obama and that he told him he was born in Kenya. The conversation was 30 years ago, so the Marine is not 100% certain but still quite certain.

    Back in the 60s I was travelling through France and I met a young guy in a cafe. He was wearing a white shirt and drinking mineral water. He looked lonely, so I asked him what he was doing there. He told me he was a Mormon on a mission. I asked where he was from. He said he grew up in Michigan but had been born in Canada. Americans were pretty unpopular in France in those days, so he had sewn a Canadian flag on his backpack. I remember that because Canada had just changed its flag from the old one with the Union Jack to the current one with the Maple Leaf. He told me he hoped to grow up to be either the President of the US or Prime Minister of Canada. Whichever one he had the best shot at, he would go for.

    Now, john, I don’t remember the guy’s name or even if he told me his name. It was over 40 years ago, after all….

  80. avatar
    American Mzungu August 28, 2012 at 9:15 am #

    When I got up this morning I was so looking forward to reading Tony’s Aversano’s responses to all the posts that had ripped his birther nonsense yesterday. I am disappointed. It looks like Tony turned tail.

  81. avatar
    The Magic M August 28, 2012 at 9:23 am #

    Scientist: Now, john, I don’t remember the guy’s name or even if he told me his name. It was over 40 years ago, after all…

    Now that you mention it, I remember running into the guy backstage after one of his speeches some years ago. I was wearing an Alan Keyes shirt and I think I heard him mumble “gawd I hate these Americans, everybody either is gay or looks gay, I should’ve stayed in Canada where I was born”. I could be wrong, but I’m pretty almost some percent certain, or maybe not.
    My former girlfriend taped the incident on her cellphone. She probably still has the recording, but she hasn’t been talking to me since she married Jay-Z.

  82. avatar
    Thomas Brown August 28, 2012 at 10:31 am #

    SF: My father was a Marine. I find this tale disgraceful.

    I wouldn’t sweat it. Given that the guy spinning the lie is a lying sack of spit, he’s probably lying about even being a Marine.

  83. avatar
    Bob August 28, 2012 at 10:50 am #

    Jerome Corsi has conceded:

    ‘The 2012 Obama presidential campaign is now selling a button for $5 showing a smiling Barack Obama above the slogan “Made in the USA” and a picture of his birth certificate.’

    http://www.wnd.com/2012/08/obama-markets-birth-certificate-button/

  84. avatar
    bob j August 28, 2012 at 11:36 am #

    and the amount goes up again. A commenter from the above WND article:

    Charlie

    {blah, blah, chris matthews sucks, why }…? Just asking.
    On the issue of the birth certificate,Where is the real one. Any real american can aquire a real copy of their birth certificate within a month, usually even less time than a week to aquire. So it is like the old advertisement from Wendy’s “Where the beef?” except it is where is the certificate?.Why pay $8,000,000.00 to attorneys to hide your past? Just asking

  85. avatar
    bovril August 28, 2012 at 1:40 pm #

    Whilst the (ever inflating) number currently stands art an average of about 2.5 million I actually saw a figure of….drum roll maestro…12 MILLION over at Freeperville yesterday

    Alas I failed to bookmark it but allegedly this was from someone who knows someone who is a lawyer…. so of course it must be true….

  86. avatar
    sfjeff August 28, 2012 at 2:24 pm #

    I saw a claim from 2010 which said that the President’s failure to release his ‘long form’ birth certificate cost the American tax payers ‘hundreds of millions of dollars’

    Its Birther max.

    Take a number- really doesn’t matter which one- double it, multiply it by 10 and then all ‘illion’ to the end of it- that is the amount of money Obama has spent to conceal his birth certificate/defend himself in court/take over the world

  87. avatar
    Rickey August 28, 2012 at 2:47 pm #

    Thomas Brown: I wouldn’t sweat it.Given that the guy spinning the lie is a lying sack of spit, he’s probably lying about even being a Marine.

    Agreed. Has “Race Bannon” ever produced his papers? There is a photo of him in khakis online, but anyone can dress up. What is he hiding? Has any other Marine come forward to corroborate his story that he was in Mombasa?

  88. avatar
    aarrgghh August 28, 2012 at 2:56 pm #

    sfjeff: I saw a claim from 2010 which said that the President’s failure to release his ‘long form’ birth certificate cost the American tax payers ‘hundreds of millions of dollars’

    starting to feel old.

    ’cause i can remember way back when birfers were claiming:

    Instead he spends hundreds of thousands of dollars arguing the plaintiffs have no standing. I think he should spend the $12 and get a certified copy of the original long for birth certificate and present it at a news conference.

  89. avatar
    predicto August 28, 2012 at 3:44 pm #

    I follow all the madness on FreeRepublic (I’m a masochist) and RaceBannon (real name Jim Bancroft) is basically a serial liar and attention whore.

    He is also known for making up this other story.

    “I met the son of G. Gordon Liddy on board the USS Okinawa in 1980 when we were heading to Iran.

    My ship was part of the 31st Marine Amphibious Unit, deployed in January 1980 from Pearl Harbor as normal, and once in Subic Bay , Philippines , President Jimmy Carter announced what is now called, “The Carter Doctrine”. As I remember it, some group of men were standing near the port side of the hanger deck, just milling around near some open hatchway, and I noticed they were inspecting some military equipment, don’t remember what, but I saw this person’s name written on his trousers, “LIDDY”…

    So, I find myself standing next to a 6’2” man about 28 or so with the name LIDDY on his trousers, and I asked him, “Hey, are you related to Gordon Liddy?” His answer surprised me totally, “Yes, that’s my father”. The likeness was now apparent and unmistakable and since then, I have read how one of his sons was a Navy SEAL at that time, so, that is who I met. What was embarrassing for me, was I was struck, he was among the famous persons I met while in the Corps, I commented how his dad never ratted anyone out, and he said, “No, He didn’t”. I was filled with wonder at meeting him and I told him that it felt like I was talking to a celebrity. That didn’t go over too well, his face changed it’s stoic expression to one of , “You’re annoying me” and a blonde man next to me spoke up, “Uh, You’re talking to my Lieutenant here…”

    Problem was,

    1) Jim Liddy was 20 in 1980, not 28.
    2) Jim Liddy was not on the USS Okinawa in 1980.
    3) Jim Liddy was not a Lieutenant in 1980.
    4) Jim Liddy was not a Navy SEAL in 1980.
    5) In fact, Jim Liddy did not even join the U.S. Navy until 1985.

    Even the morons on FreeRepublic realized that RaceBannon was lying to them about the Liddy story, and called him on it. Nevertheless, they are all happy to believe and repeat his story about young Obama, as it fits in with their desired narrative.

    We’ve all known people like RaceBannon.

  90. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 28, 2012 at 3:50 pm #

    I just wanted everybody to note that I predicted the $12 million number as the next inflationary step ten days ago.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/08/the-circus-is-back-in-town/#comment-207531

    bovril:
    Whilst the (ever inflating) number currently stands art an average of about 2.5 million I actually saw a figure of….drum roll maestro…12 MILLION over at Freeperville yesterday

    Alas I failed to bookmark it but allegedly this was from someone who knows someone who is a lawyer…. so of course it must be true….

  91. avatar
    Joey August 28, 2012 at 3:50 pm #

    Barack Obama left Hawai’i to live in California to attend Occidental College in the Fall of 1979 and he remained a student in California until he moved to New York City to attend Columbia University for Fall Semester in 1981.

  92. avatar
    misha August 28, 2012 at 3:56 pm #

    john: If one recalls, another black man who was closely connected to the Aryer’s family for his education funding, did tell Postman Al that he wanted to be President someday too.

    Well, Glenn Beck told that same postman that he raped and murdered a girl in 1990. I read on the ‘net that Glenn Beck’s car was in the same state at the time that girl met her demise. Coincidence?

  93. avatar
    US Citizen August 28, 2012 at 4:36 pm #

    For those that might not know, Race Bannon is a character in the cartoon “Jonny Quest.”

    An adventure cartoon about 4 males and their dog in the hot everglades…
    Oh wait.. that doesn’t sound so good, does it?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonny_Quest

  94. avatar
    Sam the Centipede August 28, 2012 at 4:36 pm #

    bob j quoting a birfoon called Charlie: So it is like the old advertisement from Wendy’s “Where the beef?” except it is where is the certificate?.Why pay $8,000,000.00 to attorneys to hide your past? Just asking

    And the White House Obotocracy is so inept that they spend a flopillion googillion dollars to conceal the birth certificate when other White House Obots are happily releasing it for public view on coffee cups and the internet!

    Of course, Doc C won’t admit this because he’s paid a squazillion poopillion crapillion Kenyan shillings each month by George Soros and the Illuminati to make up stories based on …. how disgustingly underhand! … it makes any decent birther puke … facts!

  95. avatar
    LW August 28, 2012 at 7:47 pm #

    bovril: I actually saw a figure of….drum roll maestro…12 MILLION over at Freeperville yesterday

    Welcome to the Rupert Pupkin Labor Day Reverse Telethon! I’m your host, the late Ed McMahon… let’s take a look at the big board to see just how much money Obama has paid out so far…

  96. avatar
    SF August 28, 2012 at 9:28 pm #

    Even worse. Such a lie would be a bit more risky than talking out of his &ss about the President.

    I also can see that this John guy is hopeless.

    Thomas Brown: I wouldn’t sweat it.Given that the guy spinning the lie is a lying sack of spit, he’s probably lying about even being a Marine.

  97. avatar
    SF August 28, 2012 at 9:30 pm #

    Yeah, he disgraces the Marines and a cartoon in one fell swoop.

    US Citizen:
    For those that might not know, Race Bannon is a character in the cartoon “Jonny Quest.”

  98. avatar
    John Potter August 29, 2012 at 1:03 am #

    …. and blowing right past the totally logical (and therefore utterly anti-birther) sum of $8M—BLAST! You’ve may have won this time, Conspiracy …

    Dr. Conspiracy: I just wanted everybody to note that I predicted the $12 million number as the next inflationary step ten days ago.

  99. avatar
    The Magic M August 29, 2012 at 11:23 am #

    Sam the Centipede: And the White House Obotocracy is so inept that they spend a flopillion googillion dollars to conceal the birth certificate when other White House Obots are happily releasing it for public view on coffee cups and the internet!

    I’ve noticed that when a particular conspiracy theory grows old enough, it inevitably incorporates the belief that there is not one single almighty conspiracy, but at least two factions waging a secret war against each other. Because at one point the evidence of entities (countries, companies, etc.) working against one another no longer fits the “they are all controlled by the same people” theory.
    For example, most of those who believe in the “the Jews are behind it” classic actually think there are two factions (European vs. American) fighting for control (while simultaneously fighting everybody else).

    Some commentors over at WND are already showing sings of such a “split theory” in its infancy when talking about why often Muslims seem to be fighting other Muslims (they somehow have to explain why Obama allegedly supports Muslim takeovers, yet is unarguably anti-Iran).

    Sam the Centipede: because he’s paid a squazillion poopillion crapillion Kenyan shillings each month by George Soros

    Well, that translates to just half a US cent per year, so… 😉

    Our beloved Alien Overlords pays me in Ningys, but they tend to disappear through a hole in my small wallet.

    Dr. Conspiracy: I just wanted everybody to note that I predicted the $12 million number as the next inflationary step ten days ago.

    You’re hardly ever wrong if you base your predictions on Fibonacci sequences. 😉

  100. avatar
    Thomas Brown August 29, 2012 at 12:08 pm #

    Sam the Centipede: And the White House Obotocracy is so inept that they spend a flopillion googillion dollars to conceal the birth certificate when other White House Obots are happily releasing it for public view on coffee cups and the internet!

    Of course, Doc C won’t admit this because he’s paid a squazillion poopillion crapillion Kenyan shillings each month by George Soros and the Illuminati to make up stories based on …. how disgustingly underhand! … it makes any decent birther puke … facts!

    Oh no! You’re on to us!

  101. avatar
    misha August 29, 2012 at 12:16 pm #

    Sam the Centipede: he’s paid…each month by George Soros

    I’m on direct deposit.

  102. avatar
    Sam the Centipede August 30, 2012 at 3:22 pm #

    misha: I’m on direct deposit.

    In Birtherland, Orly is paid by results. Nothing to declare then.

  103. avatar
    Tonytheplatypus September 6, 2012 at 1:55 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Obama was a citizen of the UK and colonies at birth and remained so until that citizenship was removed by the Kenya Independence Act in 1964 when he became a citizen of Kenya and a UK commonwealth citizen. When he lost his Kenyan citizenship at age 23 for failing to declare allegiance to Kenya and renouncing his US citizenship, he was no longer a commonwealth citizen.There is an extensive analysis of the various British legislation underpinning the preceding statement that you can find through the Debunker’s Guide.

    That is your problem. You post stuff with absolute certainty that you shot down the opposing person’s argument when it obviously doesn’t. Where did you post anything that proves I was wrong? I said he was a Kenyan citizen until his early 20’s. Your info shows that he lost his Kenyan citizenship at 23. You actually proved my point. I also posted that he may have had UK citizenship. I wasn’t sure, so you posting something that you think proves your point only shows that something I admitted I wasn’t sure of may be wrong. Even if Obama lost his Kenyan citizenship at 23, that means that the first 23 years of his life, including 5 years after turning 18, he was a foreign citizen. The Founders added the Natural Born Citizen clause because they didn’t want someone who was a foreign citizen to be President. Granting that Obama was born a US citizen, he was also born a Kenyan citizen, and was never eligible to be President. Citizen at birth and Natural Born Citizen are two different things. Obama may be a citizen at birth, but he is not a NBC, no matter what some courts may have said.

  104. avatar
    American Mzungu September 6, 2012 at 2:55 pm #

    Tonytheplatypus: That is your problem.

    Are you the Tony Aversano that high-tailed it out of here 10 days ago, now posting under another name, Tonytheplatypus?

  105. avatar
    El Diablo Negro September 6, 2012 at 3:07 pm #

    Tonytheplatypus: no matter what some courts may have said.

    So it is settled Tonytheplatypus > U.S Courts.

    Last I checked humans are born naturally. I do not know any who were born supernaturally or unnaturally.

    Tonytheplatypus: they didn’t want someone who was a foreign citizen to be President

    If you actually read what they said, they did not want foreign born royalty to usurp the presidency. Like heirs to thrones. Last I checked there is no king of Kenya.

    Its picking nits by folks who like to twist words and language to fit their delusion. All those courts throughout the USA can not be wrong.

  106. avatar
    donna September 6, 2012 at 4:00 pm #

    Tonytheplatypus:

    do you ACTUALLY BELIEVE what you wrote?

    “no matter what some courts may have said”???

    so opinionators rule and NOT the triers of FACT?

    did you fail elementary school civics?

  107. avatar
    Thomas Brown September 6, 2012 at 4:21 pm #

    Tonytheplatypus: Obama may be a citizen at birth, but he is not a NBC, no matter what some courts may have said.

    So you are awaiting the day when the courts agree with you? And then you will expect us to accept it, even though you don’t accept their decisions now?

    That’s some idiotic reasoning there, son.

  108. avatar
    Rickey September 6, 2012 at 4:31 pm #

    Tonytheplatypus: no matter what every court has said.

    FIFY

  109. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG September 6, 2012 at 5:04 pm #

    Tony, how is that whole denial of reality working out for you so far?

  110. avatar
    dunstvangeet September 6, 2012 at 5:47 pm #

    Tony, just asking you a question…

    Since when has every foreign country had a veto power over who can and cannot be President of the United States. Your entire argument relies upon going through every other countries laws in order to determine whether or not someone has a foreign citizenship in order to determine whether or not they have the ability to fit your definition of Natural Born Citizen? Furthermore, we’ve had at least 8 different Presidents who had dual citizenship at birth, and nobody seemed to care. That doesn’t include the Vice Presidents.

    Those 8 different Presidents are: Ulysseus S. Grant, Chester A. Arthur, Theodore Roosevelt, William Howard Taft, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Harry S. Truman, Gerald Ford, and Lyndon B. Johnson. 7 of them had French Citizenship, 1 of them had British Citizenship. Nobody cared!

  111. avatar
    LW September 6, 2012 at 6:22 pm #

    dunstvangeet: Those 8 different Presidents are: Ulysseus S. Grant, Chester A. Arthur, Theodore Roosevelt, William Howard Taft, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Harry S. Truman, Gerald Ford, and Lyndon B. Johnson.

    Namesake of Orly’s alma mater!? Say it ain’t so!

    Great list, by the way — I had no idea we had so many usurpers before President Obama. (Eisenhower, too, I now read)

  112. avatar
    G September 6, 2012 at 7:13 pm #

    NO Tony, it does not.

    It means at most, Obama had access to DUAL citizenship, that is it.

    He ALWAYS had American NBC status. He was born with it. At NO point did he ever lose his American citizenship.

    Numerous Americans have had or still retian dual citizenship. Our laws have NO problem with that. The whole point of American supremecy in our laws is that the US citizenship is PRIMARY and trumps any other “dual” claims.

    Tonytheplatypus: Even if Obama lost his Kenyan citizenship at 23, that means that the first 23 years of his life, including 5 years after turning 18, he was a foreign citizen.

  113. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 6, 2012 at 7:24 pm #

    My, but we are we observant! He also posted as “notsure” back in 2010.

    American Mzungu: Are you the Tony Aversano that high-tailed it out of here 10 days ago, now posting under another name, Tonytheplatypus?

  114. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 6, 2012 at 7:26 pm #

    Thomas Jefferson was a French citizen when he served as President. You were saying?

    Tonytheplatypus: Even if Obama lost his Kenyan citizenship at 23, that means that the first 23 years of his life, including 5 years after turning 18, he was a foreign citizen. The Founders added the Natural Born Citizen clause because they didn’t want someone who was a foreign citizen to be President.

  115. avatar
    Scientist September 6, 2012 at 8:26 pm #

    Tonytheplatypus: Granting that Obama was born a US citizen, he was also born a Kenyan citizen, and was never eligible to be President

    Here are the laws on Mexican citizenship. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_nationality_law

    Anyone born in Mexican territory is a Mexican citien, regardless of the ctizenship of their parents. So, Mitt’s father, George Romney, was a Mexican national.

    Furthemore, anyone “born abroad if one or both of their parents was a Mexican national born in Mexican territory” is also a Mexican national. Therefore, Mitt Romney was born a Mexican national, as well as a US citizen. But, unlike under Kenyan law, Mexican nationality does not expire. So, Mitt is STILL a Mexican national up until this very day.

    So which candidate will you vote for-Obama who is today only a US citizen, or Romney who is today a dual US/Mexican citizen? The choice is clear, Tony.

  116. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 6, 2012 at 8:53 pm #

    I think you have a reading problem. You said: “Obama had Kenyan citizenship until at least his early 20′s, and I am not sure if he ever lost his British citizenship” and I replied with the specifics and references about Obama’s British citizenship about which you were unsure.

    My comment didn’t say that I had “shot down” anything and my comment didn’t even say that you were wrong. I just answered your implicit question by providing additional information.

    Perhaps your birthers are not practiced in the honest exchange of information outside of the context of trying to smash someone’s argument. To borrow a concept from Bill Clinton, discussion doesn’t have to be a blood sport.

    Tonytheplatypus: That is your problem. You post stuff with absolute certainty that you shot down the opposing person’s argument when it obviously doesn’t. Where did you post anything that proves I was wrong?

  117. avatar
    American Mzungu September 8, 2012 at 8:05 am #

    Tonytheplatypus: You post stuff with absolute certainty that you shot down the opposing person’s argument when it obviously doesn’t. Where did you post anything that proves I was wrong?

    Please go back through the many comments challenging the claims you made as Tony Alversano and Tonytheplatypus. If you believe the critiques were wrong, present your evidence. Otherwise, I suggest you leave and don’t come back; you add nothing to the dialogue here.

  118. avatar
    Tonytheplatypus September 8, 2012 at 1:13 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    There is no one who has any evidence that Obama ever told anyone he was born in Kenya. The brochure, according to the author, was a mistake not based on any information from Obama. Now you can either believe this evidence, or you can rely on your imagination. Obama has Kenyan roots; look at the cover and content of his book, Dreams from My Father. He has a right to promote his heritage if he wants to, but he never said he was born in Kenya, only that his father’s family was from there.

    It is doubtful that the author of the brochure took it upon herself to look in to Obama’s past and was able to find out on her own that he was born to a Kenyan father and a US anthropologist mother, was raised in Hawaii and Indonesia, and had worked as a financial journalist, among other things, and then made the mistake of saying he was born in Kenya. The publisher required authors to submit their own bios, and it is almost unbelievable to think that Obama never reviewed his own bio. Pointing to Dreams from my Father to prove he never claimed a Kenyan birth is to ignore the facts at the time of his 1991 bio. The book he was working on was called “Journeys in Black and White”. He never finished the book, but it would be very interesting to read what he started to write in that book. Dreams From my Father was published 4 years later, right as Obama was beginning his political career. At this time, Obama might have realized that if he still claimed Kenyan birth, it might hurt him politically.

    You also ignore the fact that his publisher’s website listed Obama being born in Kenya from at least 2002 until April 2007. It was updated several times, adding that he the first African American editor for the Harvard Law Review, and then updated to show he was a senator from Illinois. If there was this level of shady activity by any Republican, you would be all over it. We are supposed to accept that a newspaper birth announcement from 1961 is absolute proof Obama was born in Hawaii, yet a bio of him in his publisher’s brochure, and then on their website for at least 6 years that claims he was born in Kenya, doesn’t prove anything. You don’t know for certain where Obama was born either.

  119. avatar
    Tonytheplatypus September 8, 2012 at 1:33 pm #

    Rickey: Obama announced on January 17, 2007 that he would formally declare his candidacy on February 10, 2007.

    In 1995 – 12 years earlier – he published a best-selling memoir which states that he was born in Hawaii. A 1990 New York Times article says that he was born in Hawaii.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/06/us/first-black-elected-to-head-harvard-s-law-review.html

    So which were more widely read – his best-selling memoir, the New York Times article, or an obscure biographical sketch written by a public relations person who has said that what she wrote was a mistake on her part?

    You birthers are pathetic.

    The book he was writing in 1991 never got published, so you do not know if he claimed to have been born in Kenya. The book you are talking about was written 4 years after his literary bio claimed he was born in Kenya. Dreams from my Father was written after he decided to run for office. Obama easily could have changed his birth story to accommodate his political ambition. Please post the actual links to those 1990 articles. I could easily post newspapers with dates and say that they all say Obama was born in Hawaii.

  120. avatar
    dunstvangeet September 8, 2012 at 1:35 pm #

    Tony, you have no clue about how the process actually works.

    What you have is a rough-draft that you’ve never proven that Obama has even seen, written by someone who says that they made a mistake to a book that never even got to the point of publishing (and therefore going over the fact-checking that you’re talking about).

    And here’s what we do know. Hawaii has said time and time again that Obama was born there. Obama has produced two different documents that have proven that he was born in Hawaii and either one of them would be sufficient to prove that he was born in the United States for purposes of getting a passport. If there was ever a court hearing, all Obama would have to do to prove his citizenship is to walk with the same exact information that you’ve been discounting for the last 4 years, and present it to the judge. Judge would rule that Obama was born in the United States.

    What you want us to believe is that a bio written for a book that was never published, who’s author of the biography has already said that she made a mistake, trumps the official birth certificate from the State of Hawaii. That’s not going to happen.

  121. avatar
    American Mzungu September 8, 2012 at 2:00 pm #

    Tonytheplatypus: Please post the actual links to those 1990 articles. I could easily post newspapers with dates and say that they all say Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Ricky did.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/06/us/first-black-elected-to-head-harvard-s-law-review.html

    I read the article and it clearly states that he was born in Hawaii. How could you miss it? This seems to lend credibility to Doc C’s hypothesis that you have reading problems.

    Please take your time as you go through the many comments that rebut your arguments and formulate your responses carefully.

  122. avatar
    Tonytheplatypus September 8, 2012 at 2:01 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    My, but we are we observant! He also posted as “notsure” back in 2010.

    American Mzungu: Please go back through the many comments challenging the claims you made as Tony Alversano and Tonytheplatypus.If you believe the critiques were wrong, present your evidence.Otherwise, I suggest you leave and don’t come back; you add nothing to the dialogue here.

    I don’t get what the big deal is that I am Tony Aversano, and Tonytheplatypus? I never used one name to support the other, or do anything shady. I never denied being the same person, or posted in any way that would try to cover up I am the same person. Why did I post as both? That is an easy answer. There are different ways to come to this website. Where it asked for name, sometimes I put my real name, other times I put the screen name that I usually post under. I post on a lot of different sites, and it is either under my real name or my screen name, depending on the site. I didn’t really see a big difference in which I used, my posts are consistant.

    I didn’t realize that you were the moderator here, Mzungu, and that my posts had to meet your standards or I wasn’t welcome to post here. Other than a little sarcasm, my posts have not been inappropriate. You are a great example of the tolerant left. You don’t want people with different views to be heard. I actually add a lot more to the dialog than you. You are just one of the many voices on here that pat each other on the back at how smart you are and how dumb the other side is. At least I have a different point of view. It seems like many here might share the same brain.

    It is ironic that the right is accused of being motivated by racism, yet it is really the left that are racist, as this post by Bob J shows. “The only way being Kenyan would help get someone into an American college is if that Kenyan can run 10 kilometers in 28 minutes.”

    Barack’s dad came over as a foreign exchange student on a scholarship, so you don’t have to look too far to see that being Kenyan was an asset to his dad when it came to getting an education in Hawaii. For Bob J to use his racist post to point out that Obama would have not had anything to gain by claiming to be a foreign citizen just proves how racist many Dems are.

  123. avatar
    G September 8, 2012 at 2:35 pm #

    Why is it doutful, other than the simple truth that you WISH to doubt it, because what she said, doesn’t conform with your pre-conceived desires?

    Face it, there is ZERO evidence of Barack Obama EVER seriously claiming Kenya as his birthplace. NONE. ZIP. NADA.

    But for someone desperate to cling to fear and hate such as yourself, you have to grasp at straws and mere speculation and innuendo, to hold on desperately to your fevered bogeyman imaginings of him.

    Your posts say everything about you and your own biases and nothing at all about the President. You sir are the only one with a credibility problem here and an inability to back up your specious speculation with actual empirical evidence of relevance.

    Tonytheplatypus: It is doubtful that the author of the brochure took it upon herself to look in to Obama’s past and was able to find out on her own that he was born to a Kenyan father and a US anthropologist mother, was raised in Hawaii and Indonesia, and had worked as a financial journalist, among other things, and then made the mistake of saying he was born in Kenya. The publisher required authors to submit their own bios, and it is almost unbelievable to think that Obama never reviewed his own bio. Pointing to Dreams from my Father to prove he never claimed a Kenyan birth is to ignore the facts at the time of his 1991 bio. The book he was working on was called “Journeys in Black and White”. He never finished the book, but it would be very interesting to read what he started to write in that book. Dreams From my Father was published 4 years later, right as Obama was beginning his political career. At this time, Obama might have realized that if he still claimed Kenyan birth, it might hurt him politically.

  124. avatar
    G September 8, 2012 at 2:40 pm #

    My my, how defensive you are, when someone merely points out that you’ve posted here under several monikers.

    Where did anyone actually ACCUSE you of doing anything “shady”? CLUE: They haven’t. Only YOU have leapt to stating that conclusion. So, what does that say about you?

    I find your thin-skinned defensiveness to be particularly ironic, since your entire purpose here is to cast negative aspersions and insinuations, based on mere biased speculation and unfounded rumours, on the President.

    You need to spend some time in your life seriously reflecting upon the Golden Rule – “Do unto others as you would like them to do unto you”… maybe you can stop living your life as such a hypocrite and stop being part of the problem.

    Tonytheplatypus: I don’t get what the big deal is that I am Tony Aversano, and Tonytheplatypus? I never used one name to support the other, or do anything shady. I never denied being the same person, or posted in any way that would try to cover up I am the same person. Why did I post as both? That is an easy answer. There are different ways to come to this website. Where it asked for name, sometimes I put my real name, other times I put the screen name that I usually post under. I post on a lot of different sites, and it is either under my real name or my screen name, depending on the site. I didn’t really see a big difference in which I used, my posts are consistant.

  125. avatar
    American Mzungu September 8, 2012 at 3:07 pm #

    Tonytheplatypus: You are a great example of the tolerant left.

    Thank you. I try.

  126. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 8, 2012 at 3:20 pm #

    I am the only moderator here. Commenters’ remarks are their own.

    Tonytheplatypus: I didn’t realize that you were the moderator here, Mzungu, and that my posts had to meet your standards or I wasn’t welcome to post here.

  127. avatar
    Scientist September 8, 2012 at 3:23 pm #

    Tonytheplatypus: Barack’s dad came over as a foreign exchange student on a scholarship, so you don’t have to look too far to see that being Kenyan was an asset to his dad when it came to getting an education in Hawaii.

    No, it was not. Had Obama Sr been born in Hawaii he would have very likely attended U Hawaii on a scholarship, given that he was a very bright guy and an excellent student. He got no advantage whatsoever from being born in Kenya.

    Nor would Obama Jr have received any advantage from claiming foreign birth. Being a mixed race kid from Hawaii would have been advantageous in getting into the Ivy League vs a suburban white kid from the Northeast, though.

    Tonytheplatypus: You don’t know for certain where Obama was born either.

    The only 2 people I know for CERTAIN where they were born are my kids. I don’t even know for CERTAIN where I was born. Nor do you know for CERTAIN where YOU were born. Your parents might have lied to you and submitted a phony birth certificate and phony ads in a newspaper, right?

    But I would say that barring my 2 kids, Barack Obama is the person I am closest to CERTAIN as to where he was born, even more so than I am about myself (since I have never had my birth certificate confiirmed by an official).

  128. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG September 8, 2012 at 3:23 pm #

    Tony is getting testy, and pulling out plays from the book “So, you’ve been outwitted. Now what? An idiots guide to lame internet comebacks.”

  129. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 8, 2012 at 3:37 pm #

    There are those who believe that people like them aren’t treated fairly and that others not like them get preferential treatment. Those “others” include minorities and foreigners. There is a resentful attitude towards those others.

    At least some of the anti-Obama rhetoric tries to paint him as (to use the exact words of one article) the “affirmative action President” and various rumors have appeared to inflame resent against Obama by speculating how me might have been given a “leg up” (over some white person) because he was black. Such stories make people who are racist hate Obama all the more. Folks forget that Obama graduated in the top 10% of his class at Harvard Law, which proves he deserved to get into Harvard in the first place.

    It is true that Barack Obama Sr. received a scholarship to study in the US; however, the scholarship was organized by Kenyan nationalist leader, Tom Mboya (although some Americans contributed to the fund). While there are some US scholarships for foreigners, such as the Fulbright Scholarship for graduate study, there are very few compared to the student aid available to Americans. If you want a US scholarship, being a foreign student usually isn’t helpful.

    Of course, President Obama getting financial aid as a foreign student is absurd, since he wasn’t a foreigner, but rather graduated from a US high school. Scholarships are very competitive and the funding agencies check out the applicants. In fact the foreign student story is so absurd that it was WRITTEN as an April Fool’s joke, but the birthers dropped the April 1 part and believed it anyway.

    I hope this explains why I consider the Obama foreign student myth racist, nativist and/or xenophobic. To anyone else, there is no story and no reason to pass it on.

    Tonytheplatypus: Barack’s dad came over as a foreign exchange student on a scholarship, so you don’t have to look too far to see that being Kenyan was an asset to his dad when it came to getting an education in Hawaii. For Bob J to use his racist post to point out that Obama would have not had anything to gain by claiming to be a foreign citizen just proves how racist many Dems are.

  130. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 8, 2012 at 3:43 pm #

    Just as a matter of curiosity, how do you know this?

    Tonytheplatypus: The publisher required authors to submit their own bios,

  131. avatar
    Rickey September 8, 2012 at 3:44 pm #

    Tonytheplatypus:

    You also ignore the fact that his publisher’s website listed Obama being born in Kenya from at least 2002 until April 2007.It was updated several times, adding that he the first African American editor for the Harvard Law Review, and then updated to show he was a senator from Illinois.

    You ignore the fact that 1990 articles in the New York Times and the Los Angeles Times both say that Obama was born in Hawaii. Those articles were read by millions of people. compared to perhaps a dozen people who read the biographical sketch which was written for a book which was never completed or published.

    I previously linked to the New York Times article, which you apparently did not bother to read. Here is a link to the L.A. Times article, dated March 12, 1990:

    http://articles.latimes.com/1990-03-12/news/vw-74_1_harvard-law-review

    The relevant portion: Born in Hawaii, where his parents met in college, Obama was named Barack (“blessed” in Arabic) after his father.

  132. avatar
    G September 8, 2012 at 3:55 pm #

    Again, you demonstrate how you love to dish-out trash criticisms, yet can’t take any criticism yourself. You are nothing but a thin-skinned blowhard, who comes across cocky, yet can’t back up his words with unbiased evidence. You still haven’t learned that the real world is full of consequences and own your behavior brings about the treatment you receive.

    Mzungu is well within his right to give you his opinion in response to your unfounded boisterous bumblings. You are still posting here, aren’t you? Mzungu hasn’t kicked you out, so stop your crybaby whine.

    He simply gave you good advice – that if you wish to participate in dialogue here, maybe you should grasp how adult conversation works and try that, instead of your churlish and childish trolling attitude. You receive flack, because you’ve deservedly brought it upon yourself. If you don’t like it, then as he advised, there are plenty of other immature and fact-free forums that are more in line with your rumour-mongering speculative whines.

    Tonytheplatypus:
    I didn’t realize that you were the moderator here, Mzungu, and that my posts had to meet your standards or I wasn’t welcome to post here.

    Your posts haven’t been factual either. All you express is ill-informed and unsubstantiated opinion and repeat long-debunked misinformation. And you do it all with an unearned condescending tone. Again, you have simply received the flack you deserve.

    Tonytheplatypus:
    Other than a little sarcasm, my posts have not been inappropriate.

  133. avatar
    misha September 8, 2012 at 4:06 pm #

    Tonytheplatypus: Barack’s dad came over as a foreign exchange student on a scholarship, so you don’t have to look too far to see that being Kenyan was an asset to his dad when it came to getting an education in Hawaii.

    This Kenya BC (Obama’s?) may be what you are looking for.

    Hope this helps.

  134. avatar
    G September 8, 2012 at 4:12 pm #

    Ah, typical nonsense specious generalizations. What evidence do you have that Mzungu ‘s political positions are on the actual “left”? I’ve seen a lot of entertaining stories and commentary from him, but nothing so far that stated what his actual political affiliations or beliefs are. Although the majority of this board seem to lean left, that is certainly not true of all the regular anti-birthers that post here. Quite a few of them are conservatives, GOP voters, libertarians and various types of independents.

    The error that shallow-thinkers like you continually make, is to glibly pigeon-hole everyone who disagrees with your nonsense as “left”. It is one of the reasons why folks like you only turn people off and lose credibility. As usual, you simply shoot off your mouth and say ignorant things. Further, if you are simply one of those folks who has gone to the edge of the cliff in his ideology, then of course the rest of the world appears “left” of you. If so, you need to recalibrate and reflect on that – it is you that are out on the ledge. The rest of the spectrum remains where it always was and you are just on the extreme.

    Tonytheplatypus:
    You are a great example of the tolerant left. You don’t want people with different views to be heard.

    What exactly have you added again? Nothing of credible value that has added to the conversation that I can recall. You sure are full of yourself, for someone whose statements are so easily debunked and shredded. You haven’t demonstrated any adult conversation ability here yet. In fact, you’ve said nothing that comes across as anything other than statements of unfounded ignorance and trolling.

    Tonytheplatypus:
    I actually add a lot more to the dialog than you.

    It is one thing to have a different view. There are a lot of different views here, if you could actually pull your head out of the sand and listen. The difference is, in general, the regulars are able to intelligently present their positions and back them up with empirical evidence.

    You however, just come across as ignorant and ill-informed. An opinion based on BS is not worth much and deservedly gets criticized and torn apart.

    What you glibly mistake for “sharing the same brain” amounts to nothing more than the rest of us dealing with factual reality and actual empirical evidence. You might as well complain because the rest of us all agree that water is wet and the sun rises in the East….

    If you don’t want to be mocked or come across as dumb, then stop acting that way and learn how to substantiate your arguments with actual evidence and not silly and worthless rumours and biased speculation. Those don’t amount to a hill of beans, except amongst the similarly weak-minded and shallow-thinking ignorant.

    Tonytheplatypus:
    You are just one of the many voices on here that pat each other on the back at how smart you are and how dumb the other side is. At least I have a different point of view. It seems like many here might share the same brain.

  135. avatar
    Northland10 September 8, 2012 at 4:20 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG:
    Tony is getting testy, and pulling out plays from the book “So, you’ve been outwitted. Now what? An idiots guide to lame internet comebacks.”

    Page 1… see Mario Apuzzo.

  136. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG September 8, 2012 at 5:15 pm #

    Page 1? More like the foreword, the first chapter, and half of the supplemental booklet.
    There is also a chapter by Ocrazy, which is nothing but onamonapias of shrill screeching sounds, followed by “FRAUD AND USE OF FORGED IDS AND A STOLEN SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER” over and over again.

  137. avatar
    American Mzungu September 8, 2012 at 5:35 pm #

    Tonytheplatypus: It seems like many here might share the same brain.

    We share the same brain as Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter, or Misha Trotsky??? 🙂

  138. avatar
    American Mzungu September 8, 2012 at 5:51 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Just quit while you’re behind, Tony.

    And to think I pleaded with Tony to come back and show us what he was made of. I was wrong, You were right.

  139. avatar
    Majority Will September 8, 2012 at 7:04 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG:
    Page 1? More like the foreword, the first chapter, and half of the supplemental booklet.
    There is also a chapter by Ocrazy, which is nothing but onamonapias of shrill screeching sounds, followed by “FRAUD AND USE OF FORGED IDS AND A STOLEN SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER” over and over again.

    I think onomatopoeia should be spelled your way! It’s much easier.

    I also think phonetic should be spelled fuhnehtik and abbreviation should be abb.

    Right? 😉

  140. avatar
    Paper September 8, 2012 at 9:27 pm #

    Hey guys? It’s my turn to use the brain. I wouldn’t say anything but you keep skipping my turn.

    This time I really need it. I’m supposed to be calculating the odds of a random birther realizing we stole their brains, which are in short supply in the future from which we come. Did I just say that aloud? I told you, I need the brain.

    Tonytheplatypus: It seems like many here might share the same brain.

    American Mzungu: We share the same brain as Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter, or Misha Trotsky???

  141. avatar
    misha September 8, 2012 at 10:19 pm #

    Paper: It’s my turn to use the brain. I wouldn’t say anything but you keep skipping my turn.

    Sorry. My brain is currently being shared with Angel and Max. You'll have to use someone else's.

  142. avatar
    Rickey September 8, 2012 at 10:27 pm #

    Tonytheplatypus: The book he was writing in 1991 never got published, so you do not know if he claimed to have been born in Kenya.

    Ergo, neither do you, But you are the one who claims that Obama said he was born in Kenya.

  143. avatar
    American Mzungu September 8, 2012 at 10:32 pm #

    Paper: Hey guys? It’s my turn to use the brain. I wouldn’t say anything but you keep skipping my turn.

    Well, I don’t need it right now. I’m watching the NASCAR race.

  144. avatar
    misha September 8, 2012 at 11:02 pm #

    “Well, I don’t need it right now. I’m watching the NASCAR race.” [bada-bing]

  145. avatar
    misha September 9, 2012 at 12:01 am #

    American Mzungu: Well, I don’t need it right now.I’m watching the NASCAR race.

    Cue “you people are a bunch of left wing elitists,” in 3, 2, 1…

  146. avatar
    Keith September 9, 2012 at 2:46 am #

    I needed it an hour and a half ago. Where were you when I had to figure out whether to score 1 back and give my opponent a lift when both her balls were in baulk, or to go over and separate her and just lay up for my other ball at 6? I almost blew the darn game right then and there.

    I wish you guys would have a little consideration for your skullmates.

  147. avatar
    Tonytheplatypus September 9, 2012 at 3:56 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Just as a matter of curiosity, how do you know this?

    It is on his publisher’s website. It also doesn’t make sense that a publisher would come up with a bio for every writer, especially the lesser known writers. In 1991 the internet wasn’t what it is today, so to find the detailed information that was in Obama’s bio would have been hard if Obama didn’t provide the info. It also seems hard to believe that Obama’s birth location could have been wrong in the initial bio, wrong when it was added to the website, wrong when they updated his position as Harvard Law Review Editor, wrong when it added he was senator from illinois, and not corrected for 16 years, and then finally corrected when he started his run for President. It is improbable that nobody close to him looked at his bio on the website prior to 2007, and didn’t tell him it was wrong so it could be corrected, yet somehow they thought to check it when he was running for President. Any objective person would admit that it was odd.

    I still haven’t seen a valid explanation for the 2 digit date stamp on his Selective Service card. All you champions of facts should be able to find a conclusive explanation for why there are only two digits. Can you provide at least 1 that is reasonable? The worn stamp one doesn’t work, there is no other part of the stamp close to the missing digits that is worn. The explanation that only two digits were required is also not convincing, the two digit requirement had to do with indicia, not postal stamps. Let’s see if any of you can come up with at least one.

  148. avatar
    Paper September 9, 2012 at 4:15 am #

    Sorry. Fell asleep. It’s all yours.

    Keith:

    I wish you guys would have a little consideration for your skullmates.

  149. avatar
    Tonytheplatypus September 9, 2012 at 5:09 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Thomas Jefferson was a French citizen when he served as President. You were saying?

    Please provide proof of this from a trustworthy source. I tried Googling it and the only thing I could find was that it was a rumor spread by his political opponents.

  150. avatar
    misha September 9, 2012 at 6:15 am #

    Tonytheplatypus: Let’s see if any of you can come up with at least one.

    You convinced me that Obama was born in Kenya. What should we do next?

  151. avatar
    Majority Will September 9, 2012 at 6:30 am #

    Tonytheplatypus: I still haven’t seen a valid explanation for the 2 digit date stamp on his Selective Service card

    For the exact same reason the O is missing in Honolulu in the comparative stamp (Cold Case Posse Exhibit G).

    Link:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/04/canceling-the-cold-case-posse/

  152. avatar
    Lupin September 9, 2012 at 6:37 am #

    Tonytheplatypus: Dr. Conspiracy:
    Thomas Jefferson was a French citizen when he served as President. You were saying?

    Please provide proof of this from a trustworthy source. I tried Googling it and the only thing I could find was that it was a rumor spread by his political opponents.

    As much as I hate to agree with a deranged birther with totally delusional opinions about Obama, on the subject of Jefferson’s French citizenship, he is sadly correct.

    On 26 August 1792, the french Assembly did indeed confer French citizenship on a number of distinguished foreigners, but Jefferson wasn’t on the list. Thomas Payne, George[s] and N. [James] Madison, however, were; perhaps the source of that confusion? (misspellings in the original text.)

    Here is a copy of the law *:

    http://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/D%C3%A9cret_du_26_ao%C3%BBt_1792

    ( *: there is also a Hamilton, but I don’t think he is your Alexander Hamilton; Madison, however, is James.)

    Note that this means that not one but TWO of your presidents were French citizens during their mandates: Washington (1789-97) and Madison (1809-17) — but sadly, not Jefferson.

    In fact, this means your country was founded (albeit somewhat retroactively) by a Frenchman.

    [open Nelson] Ha-ha! [close Nelson] 🙂

  153. avatar
    misha September 9, 2012 at 7:36 am #

    Lupin: on the subject of Jefferson’s French citizenship, he is sadly correct.

    That’s OK. Romney is from outer space. Romney believes that God lives on the planet Kolob. God backwards spells dog. Coincidence?

    Plus, Romney changes positions more often than an escort.

    Mitt v Mitt: The story of two men trapped in one body –

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9njHHyRI7g

  154. avatar
    Scientist September 9, 2012 at 7:40 am #

    Tonytheplatypus: I still haven’t seen a valid explanation for the 2 digit date stamp on his Selective Service card.

    I haven’t seen one for why a forger wouldn’t put 4 digits. The idea that they couldn’t obtain a “19” is ludicrous. Who is more likely to do a sloppy job, a clerk stamping dozens of routine forms at a time or a forger making a single form with virtually unlimited time to complete the job and numerous people examining the product carefully before it is released?

    Also, how did a “forgery” get into the SSS archives prior to the election? How did the database show Obama as registered back in 2007?

  155. avatar
    Scientist September 9, 2012 at 7:45 am #

    misha: That’s OK. Romney is from outer space. Romney believes that God lives on the planet Kolob. God backwards spells dog. Coincidence?Plus, Romney changes positions more often than an escort.Mitt v Mitt: The story of two men trapped in one body – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9njHHyRI7g

    Tony Platypus or Aversano or Zullo (whatever): I ask you again for your thoughts on the fact that Mitt is a dual US/Mexican citizen. Now. Today. A current dual citizen, not someone who was one in the past but is no longer. Is Mitt elligible in your eyes? Simple yes or no. Should be easy for one of your gifts. Stop ducking and answer.

  156. avatar
    American Mzungu September 9, 2012 at 8:45 am #

    Lupin: In fact, this means your country was founded (albeit somewhat retroactively) by a Frenchman.

    gasp. At least we can be grateful that none of our Founding Fathers were ever tainted with being born subject to the English Crown.

  157. avatar
    Majority Will September 9, 2012 at 8:47 am #

    May 17, 2012

    Miriam Goderich issued the following statement to Political Wire:

    “You’re undoubtedly aware of the brouhaha stirred up by Breitbart about the erroneous statement in a client list Acton & Dystel published in 1991 (for circulation within the publishing industry only) that Barack Obama was born in Kenya. This was nothing more than a fact checking error by me — an agency assistant at the time.

    There was never any information given to us by Obama in any of his correspondence or other communications suggesting in any way that he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii.

    I hope you can communicate to your readers that this was a simple mistake and nothing more.”

    Birthers are liars.

  158. avatar
    Paper September 9, 2012 at 8:48 am #

    read through comments for full discussion on Jefferson

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/04/was-george-washington-a-natural-born-citizen/

    Tonytheplatypus: Please provide proof of this from a trustworthy source.I tried Googling it and the only thing I could find was that it was a rumor spread by his political opponents.

  159. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 9, 2012 at 8:56 am #

    For the purposes of the argument we can substitute James Madison the principle author of the US Constitution as our French citizen President, but it is written in

    Digest of American Law: Notes and comments (1824)

    http://books.google.com/books?id=kf48AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA713&dq=nathan+dane+jefferson+citizen+france&lr=&num=100&as_brr=0&cd=1#v=onepage&q&f=false

    that Jefferson was also a French citizen. Perhaps he was made a French citizen at a different time?

    Lupin: As much as I hate to agree with a deranged birther with totally delusional opinions about Obama, on the subject of Jefferson’s French citizenship, he is sadly correct.

  160. avatar
    Paper September 9, 2012 at 10:06 am #

    Besides the fact that that is what the site says *now* more than twenty years later, there is this process called editing.

    I used to write and edit such bios. In my experience, whether provided or not, they always are subject to editing. Chopping, splicing, adding, subtracting, etc. It is very easy for me to imagine just this kind of error coming into being and being preserved in a publicity pamphlet such as this.

    I will add that we actually were able to research information before the internet. Amazing, but true.

    Tonytheplatypus: It is on his publisher’s website.It also doesn’t make sense that a publisher would come up with a bio for every writer, especially the lesser known writers.In 1991 the internet wasn’t what it is today, so to find the detailed information that was in Obama’s bio would have been hard if Obama didn’t provide the info.It also seems hard to believe that Obama’s birth location could have been wrong in the initial bio, wrong when it was added to the website, wrong when they updated his position as Harvard Law Review Editor, wrong when it added he was senator from illinois, and not corrected for 16 years, and then finally corrected when he started his run for President.It is improbable that nobody close to him looked at his bio on the website prior to 2007, and didn’t tell him it was wrong so it could be corrected, yet somehow they thought to check it when he was running for President.Any objective person would admit that it was odd.

  161. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG September 9, 2012 at 10:20 am #

    Tonytheplatypus: Please provide proof of this from a trustworthy source.I tried Googling it and the only thing I could find was that it was a rumor spread by his political opponents.

    I was unaware that birthers followed trustworthy sources. I just assumed that you only trust Orly’s poopies, and the ramblings of the bloated eggplant man aka Jermone Corsi.

  162. avatar
    American Mzungu September 9, 2012 at 10:47 am #

    Keith: Where were you when I had to figure out whether to score 1 back and give my opponent a lift when both her balls were in baulk, or to go over and separate her and just lay up for my other ball at 6? I almost blew the darn game right then and there.

    Whatever are you talking about? For those of us who disengage from “The Brain” for a weekend of vegging out on football and NASCAR racing, could you please translate into language that I/we can understand? It would be helpful if you could relate it to terms like:

    left-side only tire change, fill up with Sunoco fuel, burn-out, pit row speeding penalty, black flagged, and reset for The Chase;

    or:

    no-huddle offense, two minute drill, jumbotron, instant replay reversal, replacement zebras, and I can’t believe they’re going for it on fourth and 26 this early in the game.

    Thank you.

  163. avatar
    James M September 9, 2012 at 11:18 am #

    American Mzungu: Whatever are you talking about?For those of us who disengage from “The Brain” for a weekend of vegging out on football and NASCAR racing, could you please translate into language that I/we can understand?It would be helpful if you could relate it to terms like:

    left-side only tire change, fill up with Sunoco fuel, burn-out, pit row speeding penalty, black flagged, and reset for The Chase;

    or:

    no-huddle offense, two minute drill, jumbotron, instant replay reversal, replacement zebras, and I can’t believe they’re going for it on fourth and 26 this early in the game.

    Thank you.

    So the required runs needed are 67 from 11 overs and it doesn’t take a calculator to tell us that the run rate is 6.0909 recurring.

  164. avatar
    Lupin September 9, 2012 at 11:30 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: For the purposes of the argument we can substitute James Madison the principle author of the US Constitution as our French citizen President, but it is written in

    Digest of American Law: Notes and comments (1824)

    http://books.google.com/books?id=kf48AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA713&dq=nathan+dane+jefferson+citizen+france&lr=&num=100&as_brr=0&cd=1#v=onepage&q&f=false

    that Jefferson was also a French citizen. Perhaps he was made a French citizen at a different time?

    Obviously, I am not a historian. I see your source, but I cannot find any French source verifying it.

    Citizenship could only be conferred by decree (décret) and nowadays one can search online all the records of such acts going back to even before the French Revolution, but whereas I can find Tom Paine and Madison (and, to my surprise, Washington) I cannot find any mentions of Jefferson.

    It’s impossible to prove a negative, of course, and the fact that my search didn’t turn up anything is no proof that your source is incorrect.

    Still, now you have an actual French Law proving that in 1792, French citizenship was conferred upon Washington and Madison. From the birthers’ standpoint, this is a bombshell because it establishes without the shadow of a doubt that a dual citizen could serve as President.

    Here is the link to the actual French archives (as opposed to wiki):

    http://books.google.fr/books?id=9UYUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA367&lpg=PA367&dq=D%C3%A9cret+du+26+ao%C3%BBt+1792+++Assembl%C3%A9e+Nationale+L%C3%A9gislative&source=bl&ots=aDy6UocHLr&sig=svLU1GZvgQNxFU-ruKqFvwUMB5s&hl=en&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=D%C3%A9cret%20du%2026%20ao%C3%BBt%201792%20%20%20Assembl%C3%A9e%20Nationale%20L%C3%A9gislative&f=false

  165. avatar
    Lupin September 9, 2012 at 11:33 am #

    The French wiki claims that the Hamilton mentioned in the decree was in fact your Alexander Hamilton, although they don’t source their statement.

    http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Hamilton

    FWIW, they also credit Washington and Madison with French citizenship, but not Jefferson.

  166. avatar
    misha September 9, 2012 at 11:43 am #

    Lupin: this is a bombshell because it establishes without the shadow of a doubt that a dual citizen could serve as President.

    What about Romney, who has unicorn DNA?

  167. avatar
    American Mzungu September 9, 2012 at 12:41 pm #

    Lupin: Still, now you have an actual French Law proving that in 1792, French citizenship was conferred upon Washington and Madison. From the birthers’ standpoint, this is a bombshell because it establishes without the shadow of a doubt that a dual citizen could serve as President.

    Bombshell for birthers, but for Washington Redskins fans, this is potentially devastating. There is a Washington vs. New Orleans game scheduled for 1:00 p.m. EDT today, and I’m depending on Tony to straighten out this mess before kickoff. A French connection may be helpful for the NO Saints, but for the Washington Redskins, a French taint is unimaginable! These are the Washington REDSKINS! If Washinton turns out to be French, do we rename them the Washington INDIGENES? “Hail to the Indigenes, Hail to the Chef?” It doesn’t work!

    The alleged revelation of French citizenship for the writer of the U.S. Constitution is not as bad for the James Madison “Dukes”. I guess they could be renamed the “Ducs.” Still…

    Tony, We are counting on you. 🙂

  168. avatar
    bob j September 9, 2012 at 12:56 pm #

    Tonytheplatypus: It is ironic that the right is accused of being motivated by racism, yet it is really the left that are racist, as this post by Bob J shows. “The only way being Kenyan would help get someone into an American college is if that Kenyan can run 10 kilometers in 28 minutes.”
    Barack’s dad came over as a foreign exchange student on a scholarship, so you don’t have to look too far to see that being Kenyan was an asset to his dad when it came to getting an education in Hawaii. For Bob J to use his racist post to point out that Obama would have not had anything to gain by claiming to be a foreign citizen just proves how racist many Dems are.

    1. That was a part of a post, not the entire post.Your factual ineptitude is showing.
    2. When did Kenyan become a race?
    3. What makes you think I am a democrat?
    4. Who awarded the scholarship to Barack Obama Sr.?
    5. The President was born in Hawai, so what does your last sentence mean?

    Being called a racist does not bother me. Being called a democrat chaps my posterior. No offense to democrats.

  169. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 9, 2012 at 2:04 pm #

    Without an authoritative source, I guess I cannot assert that Jefferson was a French citizen, although he certainly was a Francophile, and was actually in France while the US Constitution was being written.

    My article, “Monsieur le Président,” is on James Madison, about which there is no doubt that he became a French Citizen, that he was happy about the citizenship, and that he was a French Citizen at the time he served as President of the United States. Madison is usually considered the principle author of the US Constitution.

    Lupin: Citizenship could only be conferred by decree (décret) and nowadays one can search online all the records of such acts going back to even before the French Revolution, but whereas I can find Tom Paine and Madison (and, to my surprise, Washington) I cannot find any mentions of Jefferson.