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The birthers lost the election. What are their options?

Keep on doing the same stuff

That seems a popular option these days. Write more blogs, file more lawsuits, send more letters to the editor, write their Congressional representatives. Einstein’s definition of insanity was doing the same things over and over and expecting different results.

Emigration

This is an completely effective solution for the person who feels that President Obama isn’t eligible and who cannot bear living in a country with an ineligible President; and it works well for someone who thinks the country is heading for rapid destruction. There are lots of countries in the world that I really don’t know much about, and perhaps among them there is a place for folks like our birthers. My words to such people? “Bye.”

Secession

For those who just hate to move and who believe that their neighbors are as crazy as they are, they might try leaving the country politically by secession. They never cared that much for the country anyway. This is, by the way, a total non-starter.

Impeachment

Impeach Earl Warren billboardIn the dirty back alleys of Birtherville, I think the “Impeach Barack Obama” graffiti will be pretty common. I grew up among an impeachment movement, for Chief Justice Earl Warren. The photo (right) was taken near Montgomery, Alabama in 1963. Impeachment was a topic in 2009 as well with commentators arguing that impeachment was a referendum of sorts an appropriate to rid the country of Obama. Impossible before, it becomes even farther from the realm of possibility with Obama winning the referendum of the 2012 election.

The Huffington Post reports that the Conservative Majority Fund who spent over half a million dollars airing the birther-style “Shady Past” attack ad against Obama, is now making robocalls calling for Obama’s impeachment.

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72 Responses to Options

  1. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG November 15, 2012 at 8:35 pm #

    Apparently some guy in Florida took the fourth option. http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-11-14/industries/35104599_1_obama-victory-election-results-president-barack-obama
    Honestly? I feel indifferent. If you’re gonna be a twat and kill yourself because you didn’t get your way, what does that really say about you as a person?

  2. avatar
    RuhRoh November 15, 2012 at 8:44 pm #

    Don’t most of these people also expect to be raptured sometime soon? The ultimate secession plan!

    Their 5th, and apparently most popular, option is to deny that the election results are valid. It’s a fantastic expression of their xenophobia as expressed so far, as they keep accusing black and brown people of rampant voter fraud.

  3. avatar
    RuhRoh November 15, 2012 at 8:47 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG:
    Apparently some guy in Florida took the fourth option. http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-11-14/industries/35104599_1_obama-victory-election-results-president-barack-obama
    Honestly? I feel indifferent. If you’re gonna be a twat and kill yourself because you didn’t get your way, what does that really say about you as a person?

    Honestly, I do not see this particular tragedy as related to politics at all. This poor man was schizophrenic and apparently in crisis. Those around him saw him as a suicide risk. He could have just as easily been afraid of his toaster as Obama.

    I don’t understand why those around him, or the police who were being called for regular wellness checks, weren’t able to force a psych hold until he was no longer a danger to himself. He most likely could have been saved with a tweak to his treatment plan if he were somehow convinced or forced to accept that help. Very, very sad.

  4. avatar
    Thomas Brown November 15, 2012 at 9:16 pm #

    I feel for the guy’s family, and it is sad he couldn’t have been helped.

    However… his story does typify the Obama haters’ capacity for clarity: he blamed Obama for his business failure; he ran a tanning salon.

    On the beach.

    In Key West.

  5. avatar
    misha marinsky November 15, 2012 at 9:27 pm #

    I had made noises about emigrating to France or the Netherlands, if Willard won the election.

    My reasons were based on logic, not emotion. I did not want to live in a theocracy, I did not want another war launched, and I did not want to live where science was belittled.

    I am fed up with the fundie freak show, as Bill Maher put it. The times in the past where anti-progress fundies got national prominence were Shallow Sarah and William Jennings Bryan.

    Not only was Obama re-elected, but two states voted to legalize marijuana.

    The war on drugs, is a war on ourselves:

    Police Raid Berwyn Heights Mayor’s Home, Kill His 2 Dogs

    The investigation that led police to their house in the 8500 block of Edmonston Road began in Arizona, officials said. There, a police dog at a shipping facility identified the package as being filled with marijuana. Prince George’s officers posed as deliverymen and brought it to Calvo’s home.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/30/AR2008073003299.html

  6. avatar
    Paul November 15, 2012 at 9:35 pm #

    Oh wow. I remember the “Impeach Earl Warren” signs.

  7. avatar
    US Citizen November 15, 2012 at 9:40 pm #

    Thomas Brown:
    I feel for the guy’s family, and it is sad he couldn’t have been helped.

    However…his story does typify the Obama haters’ capacity for clarity: he blamed Obama for his business failure; he ran a tanning salon.

    On the beach.

    In Key West.

    That’s not as crazy as it sounds.
    Many people prefer to get a “pre-tan” before being seen on a beach.
    Tanning salons are also popular with those that work nights.
    Anyway, his business acumen isn’t so much an issue as his mental state was.

  8. avatar
    LW November 15, 2012 at 10:10 pm #

    From the article:

    I grew up among an impeachment movement, for Chief Justice Earl Warren. The photo (right) was taken near Montgomery, Alabama in 1963.

    There was a similar billboard I would see on a regular basis in my formative years, on northbound I-405 just past Avalon Boulevard in Southern California.

    This is right by where one of the Goodyear blimps was/is based; insert “gasbag” metaphor here, although I think of the Birchers as much more incendiary than inert.

  9. avatar
    RuhRoh November 15, 2012 at 10:35 pm #

    US Citizen: That’s not as crazy as it sounds.
    Many people prefer to get a “pre-tan” before being seen on a beach.
    Tanning salons are also popular with those that work nights.
    Anyway, his business acumen isn’t so much an issue as his mental state was.

    Exactly. If this sad situation is evidence of anything, it’s evidence of the challenges inherent between privacy/individual freedom and how we protect the mentally ill.

  10. avatar
    RuhRoh November 15, 2012 at 10:38 pm #

    I’m too young for the impeachment signs that Doc and some others saw (also geographically disinclined, I would guess), but I do vividly recall the “Don’t Blame Me, I’m From Massachusetts!” bumper stickers. I guess you’d have to be over 40 and Northeastern to remember those.

  11. avatar
    Keith November 15, 2012 at 10:57 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: If you’re gonna be a twat and kill yourself because you didn’t get your way, what does that really say about you as a person?

    It says you aren’t gonna get your way ever again.

  12. avatar
    Northland10 November 15, 2012 at 11:15 pm #

    Emigration does have its problems. We really don’t want to saddle friendly nations with the birthers as they will not be friendly much longer. Sending them to enemy nations sounds much more agreeable, but I fear there may be something in the Geneva Conventions regarding this approach.

    We could suggest they go to Israel. Given their toxic nature toward the right wing, it may help Israel rid themselves of the leadership of the likes of Binyamin Netanyahu and Avigdor Lieberman and return to a more moderate government. After completing their work there, and needed to find a place run by a nut job, they can run to Iran where their support of Ahmadinejad will help bring Iran back to their reform days.

  13. avatar
    James M November 15, 2012 at 11:21 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG:
    Apparently some guy in Florida took the fourth option. http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-11-14/industries/35104599_1_obama-victory-election-results-president-barack-obama
    Honestly? I feel indifferent. If you’re gonna be a twat and kill yourself because you didn’t get your way, what does that really say about you as a person?

    I salute him for refraining to kill anyone else except himself.

  14. avatar
    RuhRoh November 15, 2012 at 11:23 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG:
    Apparently some guy in Florida took the fourth option. http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-11-14/industries/35104599_1_obama-victory-election-results-president-barack-obama
    Honestly? I feel indifferent. If you’re gonna be a twat and kill yourself because you didn’t get your way, what does that really say about you as a person?

    And, Andrew, what’s with the “Twat” reference? REALLY? If I have to spell out to you why this is wrong, you wouldn’t understand why it’s blatantly offensive, misogynistic, etc.

    It’s 2012. We “twat” owners not only outnumber you,. we better you in many ways.

    Cut the misogynistic claptrap. I bet you wonder why you struggle with women. *smdh*

  15. avatar
    misha marinsky November 15, 2012 at 11:38 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: If you’re gonna be a twit

    FIFY

    Fully illustrated here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSqkdcT25ss

  16. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG November 16, 2012 at 12:01 am #

    James M: I salute him for refraining to kill anyone else except himself.

    Well there is that. Too many news stories where someone offs a bunch of people then themselves.

  17. avatar
    RuhRoh November 16, 2012 at 12:17 am #

    James M: I salute him for refraining to kill anyone else except himself.

    You say that as though he were mentally competent. Um..he was a schizophrenic in crisis.

    What is wrong with you people?

  18. avatar
    RuhRoh November 16, 2012 at 12:23 am #

    Doc, I’d just like to know, for the record.

    Is it acceptable on your blog to call people twats, cunts, niggers, etc.? Because if this sort of crap is allowable, I will find another place to post. Don’t you have access to a word filter?

    I don’t know what is going on here. I don’t expect you to monitor this site 24/7/365.

    But if I see words like twat, cunt and nigger on this site in 24 hours. I won’t be back. doubt I’m alone there.

  19. avatar
    richCares November 16, 2012 at 1:15 am #

    RuhRoh, two things
    1. Those words are not acceptable, period (Doc knows this)
    2. keep your word, don’t come back

  20. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 16, 2012 at 1:16 am #

    I have a small list of words that trigger moderation, the ones you list not included.

    Censoring words is always problematic because word filters, at least the simplistic one I have available, do not understand context. One of the first online squabbles I encountered, before there was an Internet, was with a local library bulletin board where a battle erupted over censorship of the word “breast” because you couldn’t say, for example, “breast cancer”. The thing got so far out of hand that they shut that whole service down.

    Words have contexts and regional meanings. The word “twat” which can refer to female genitalia has another meaning akin to “twit” which in context appears the intent here and in fact when I read the comment, the meaning you ascribed to it didn’t even occur to me. We had the twat discussion on the blog last year. Also if I filter “twat”, it will also filter any word with that string in it like “marketwatch.com” and “Lee Atwater” to give two examples that have appeared in comments on this blog. For more on the usage of that particular word,check out the Wikipedia article on it.

    Not all readers of this blog are from the US, and the meaning of words and the degree of offensiveness varies from region to region. I would suggest to commenters that you use “twit” instead of “twat.”

    And no, I’m certainly not going to monitor the blog 24x7x365.

    I try to keep things marginally decent here, but I cannot insure that you won’t find something offensive, nor will I attempt to word-filter every possible offensive term so it never appears. There are some things I’ll delete when I see them. On the other hand, if a “drive by” nut job says something offensive, I will typically let it stand as a testimony to the mentality of nut jobs.

    RuhRoh: Is it acceptable on your blog to call people twats, cunts, niggers, etc.?

  21. avatar
    Rickey November 16, 2012 at 1:33 am #

    RuhRoh: And, Andrew, what’s with the “Twat” reference? REALLY? If I have to spell out to you why this is wrong, you wouldn’t understand why it’s blatantly offensive, misogynistic, etc.

    It’s 2012. We “twat” owners not only outnumber you,. we better you in many ways.

    Cut the misogynistic claptrap. I bet you wonder why you struggle with women. *smdh*

    I don’t know where Andrew lives, but in the U.K. the epithet “twat” is used differently than here in the U.S. There it is a rather common epithet used to describe stupid and/or obnoxious people. A twit is merely a silly or foolish person.

    I do not use the word, but in the context Andrew used it I doubt that he intended it to be misogynistic.

  22. avatar
    Keith November 16, 2012 at 2:09 am #

    My wife, who is Australian, uses the word ‘twat’ where I use the word ‘twit’.

    Offensiveness is in the eye of the beholder.

    Australians also use the word ‘crutch’ where Americans use the word ‘crotch’. Context is everything.

  23. avatar
    red-diaper baby 1942 November 16, 2012 at 2:11 am #

    In response to the doc’s important point that “words have contexts” and the problems with automatic filters (in this case connected with AutoCorrect): my favorite example comes from Deborah Cameron’s book, “Verbal Hygiene”, commenting on political correctness. I don’t remember the exact details, and I’m too lazy to go to my bookshelves to look it up, but I seem to recall she refers to the problem a local newspaper had in a small New England town. In reporting that a local business had been quite successful in the past year, and had reversed its previous losses, the paper stated that the company was now in the African-American.

  24. avatar
    roadburner November 16, 2012 at 4:55 am #

    Rickey: I don’t know where Andrew lives, but in the U.K. the epithet “twat” is used differently than here in the U.S. There it is a rather common epithet used to describe stupid and/or obnoxious people. A twit is merely a silly or foolish person.I do not use the word, but in the context Andrew used it I doubt that he intended it to be misogynistic.

    there is also a problem in forums – vocal inflection – there isnt any.

    theres a commonly used word in england `wanker. it can be used with venom to scream at another driver or someone who has been a complete pillock (love the word pillock), or, when using it amongst freinds you could call a mate a wanker said properly and itd be laughed about.

    the same is here in spain with gillipollas – which literally means pillock – the spanish use it the same way.

    id be inclined to agree with asimov, and use a word when its needed in the context its needed.

  25. avatar
    G November 16, 2012 at 5:00 am #

    Agreed. I too didn’t take offense to the term, because I assumed the “twit” reference instead of the other, as it more fit the context of the argument.

    Then again, I can understand where people who are only aware of a different context, might over-react.

    That being said, while I totally understood and can even support the intention of RuhRoh’s post, I actually took much greater offense to what RuhRoh said, as only RuhRoh was bringing the offensive contexts of that word into play… moreover, as I am aware of, only RuhRoh introduced the C-word and the N-word into the conversation here…so I have to call foul on that behavior…which is a shame.

    I’ve seen and enjoyed many posts from RuhRoh here in the past. However, in review, I see this as RuhRoh leaping to an incorrect conclusion about what was actually stated and then being the only person here who actually sullied this board with inappropriate and offensive language and contexts, in a fit of rage.

    Sometimes we leap to conclusions based on emotional gut reactions and don’t think before posting. That is what seems to have happened here and someone rode in on a high horse of protest to attack a concept that ironically, only they themselves, unintentionally, brought with them…

    RuhRoh, I hope you will read, understand, reflect and return. I sure don’t want to see you leave here…but as I see it, at a minimum, on this specific incident, you owe at least Andrew an apology.

    Rickey: I don’t know where Andrew lives, but in the U.K. the epithet “twat” is used differently than here in the U.S. There it is a rather common epithet used to describe stupid and/or obnoxious people. A twit is merely a silly or foolish person.

    I do not use the word, but in the context Andrew used it I doubt that he intended it to be misogynistic.

  26. avatar
    G November 16, 2012 at 5:27 am #

    Ok, I’m going to weigh in here again. First of all, I understand both positions, but overall, I am going to have to side more with the context of what James stated, then what turned into an another unfortunate attack by RuhRoh. Let me explain.

    Suicide is always a tragic and regrettable action…and in most cases a FOOLISH choice. I too wish that people wouldn’t become overtaken with despair, fear or hate to the extent that they feel they have no choice to take a life – their own or others. I wish they would be able to get the help they really need before something like that happens.

    Especially in the case of mental illness. However, before leaping to conclusions, based on the info available in the articles I’ve seen, we cannot jump to conclude that this person was clinically “mentally ill” and actually schizophrenic…and not just depressed and filled with foolish bitterness and extreme self-harming spitefulness. The 2nd medicine used in this suicide was stated as something that was used to treat situations such as schizophrenia OR depression. We do not have any clear information on if that person obtained that particular drug because it was prescribed to them or if by some other means, purely for the intentions of creating a fatal cocktail. Moreover, even if it was their personal prescription, the drug is used to treat multiple conditions. So it is also rash to jump to conclusions on what this individual’s actual conditiion or diagnosis was.

    What we do know is that a sad, foolish and tragic overreaction to Obama’s reelection occured by this individual, resulting in their taking of their OWN life by intentional CHOICE.

    It is not a choice that I fully understand, nor do I agree with…nor do I even respect. It is certainly tragic, UNNECESSARY and definitely FOOLISH.

    But sadly, the world is full of unstable and irrational people. Of course the ideal situation would be for NO deaths or injuries to occur here. However, if someone consumed by irrational bitterness and fear is going to be dangerous and harmful, I will always prefer that they make the choice to harm themselves over injuring or killing others, or taking down anyone along with them.

    James M: I salute him for refraining to kill anyone else except himself.

    RuhRoh: You say that as though he were mentally competent. Um..he was a schizophrenic in crisis.

    What is wrong with you people?

  27. avatar
    The Magic M November 16, 2012 at 5:43 am #

    > Impossible before, it becomes even farther from the realm of possibility with Obama winning the referendum of the 2012 election.

    Maybe it will rile up some Tea Party support in the 2014 elections, as in “we need to vote out as many Dems as possible so we can get Obama impeached *and* convicted”. Other than that, it’s pretty much recycling the hopes of 2010 (I remember how birthers croaked “they will start impeachment hearings no later than Feb 2011″, and we all know how that went…).

    RuhRoh: Their 5th, and apparently most popular, option is to deny that the election results are valid.

    Their 6th option, related to your 5th and quite popular among cranks in my country who have exhausted all legal pathways:
    Claim that the US are not a legal state anymore (I think you have your “the US are a corporation, not a country” wingnuts as well as we have our “the Federal Republic of Germany is not a legal state, only the Reich is” cranks) and that therefore there is no legal President, no legal Congress and no legal anything, pretty much.
    The ultimate recourse for anyone who just cannot accept reality.

  28. avatar
    G November 16, 2012 at 5:54 am #

    In terms of the main article and the four options listed, here are my opinions on where the Birthers go from here with them:

    1. Keep on doing the same stuff – If past history is any indication, there is every reason to expect the remaining birthers and other ODS sufferers to continue to waste their time in the rinse-repeat cycle of being too stupid to learn from their failures. Not that it has gotten them anywhere…nor will it.

    However, I actually do see this as an area where the volume of their lame attempts will also start to subside…particularly once the inauguration has settled. No matter how dense and bitter they are, they are faced with the law of diminishing returns…and the huge precedent of failure and futility that they’ve built for themselves with these very same lame attempts all throughout the last cycle.

    There are simply a lot less reasons for others to tolerate or tune into their tantrums now that the election is over…and the cynical political manipulators that only wished to prevent a re-election and who helped enable and coddle these gullible tools, will now move onto other things. So their tantrums will receive even less attention for their efforts and an increasing number of these dead-enders will become exhausted and throw in the towel on pursuing or clinging to false hope on these particular avenues.

    I look to the failed PUMA movement from last cycle as the model here. They had a huge drop-off of activity after the 2008 election, followed by a renewed surge of effort and resistance in trying to prevent his inauguration, with a lot of promises of future campaign activity and action that were created during that timeframe window. Their websites remained a hotbed flurry of calls to action and frantic posting and vows of a future movement, beyond the election. Of course, they achieved no success and there simply wasn’t enough motivation and steam to keep them going for long after the inauguration was settled and done with…and they quickly lost steam from there on in. By late spring of 2009, many of their sites had become too boring to even pay attention to anymore…and even though a few bitter dead-enders continue to this day, they have become less relevant than moon landing deniers.

  29. avatar
    G November 16, 2012 at 6:14 am #

    2. Emigration – I expect this to be the least likely outcome for any of them to actually put their money where their mouth is. Most of these folks are all talk and no action. Many of them have unlikely ever been outside of the US in their entire life. Trust me, I’d love to see them leave or “go Galt” or whatever…but unfortunately this is probably the most hollow tantrum threat that they will make…which means we’re stuck with them. *sigh*

    3. Secession . It won’t actually happen, as we’ve been discussing in detail on these forums. However, I do see this particular fad “meme” of theirs as one that will continue to increase in volume in the weeks and months to come. It is on the rise and nowhere near its peak. But as I said at the beginning – it won’t actually happen…. but I would not rule out small incidents of violence and civil disobedience being ginned up as these irresponsible sore-losers continue to flame this reprehensible and irresponsible idea…so I do consider it to be the most offensive and dangerous of their efforts on the table…and one with the most appeal to incite the unstable to cause harm

    4. Impeachment . This will certainly be on the uptick as a meme for the next four years…but really, where do they have to go with this?

    Impeachment is a process constrained to congress…so they really don’t have much they can do here, beyond waste time and money on useless billboards and more futile angry letter writing campaigns. No fake grand juries. No waste of endless courtroom jurisdictions.

    So I consider this to be even more futile than everything else that they’ve attempted, which also had ZERO actual basis behind it. The only danger here is where there remains the agitation to incite an unstable “lone wolf” or small group to cause harm…but that is about it….

  30. avatar
    misha marinsky November 16, 2012 at 6:29 am #

    The Magic M: we have our “the Federal Republic of Germany is not a legal state, only the Reich is” cranks

    The German states were not a united Germany, until von Bismarck.

  31. avatar
    G November 16, 2012 at 6:29 am #

    I completely agree with this as being the 5th and most popular option. We’re already seeing a lot of this taking place. To me, it is nothing but proof that their party is incapable of really learning the lessons of what they need to do to change and that they will be incapable of doing anything more than trying to polish their turds with only hollow “rebranding” cynical marketing ploys and NO actual real policy or attitude changes…

    Based on this very important 5th point, I just see them continuing to degrade as a non-serious party through both the 2014 and 2016 election cycles…

    That doesn’t mean that they might not experience another “surge” Tea Party wave of success in 2014, as they did in 2010…because I’m not confident that the other side will remain vigilant and turn out in a non-presidential election.

    But sadly, I only expect them to continue to spiral downhill in terms of actual ideological extremity and madness…whether that brings them short-term success in 2014 or not. I certainly don’t see a “moderate” and “sane” party miraculously arising to save them in 2016.

    RuhRoh: Their 5th, and apparently most popular, option is to deny that the election results are valid. It’s a fantastic expression of their xenophobia as expressed so far, as they keep accusing black and brown people of rampant voter fraud.

  32. avatar
    misha marinsky November 16, 2012 at 6:30 am #

    G: The only danger here is where there remains the agitation to incite an unstable “lone wolf” or small group to cause harm

    Which is exactly what the Denialists are trying to do.

  33. avatar
    G November 16, 2012 at 6:30 am #

    I consider those views to really fall under the same broad “nullification” and “seccession” category as Option 3.

    The Magic M: Their 6th option, related to your 5th and quite popular among cranks in my country who have exhausted all legal pathways:
    Claim that the US are not a legal state anymore (I think you have your “the US are a corporation, not a country” wingnuts as well as we have our “the Federal Republic of Germany is not a legal state, only the Reich is” cranks) and that therefore there is no legal President, no legal Congress and no legal anything, pretty much.
    The ultimate recourse for anyone who just cannot accept reality.

  34. avatar
    G November 16, 2012 at 6:34 am #

    This is what I consider to be the actual “Option 6″ and a meme I’m expecting to eventually trend upwards with them – the whole EOTWAWKI and “anti-christ” claims by, as you aptly put it, the “rapture” crowd…

    Right now, they have too many other competing memes to fail with that are taking their focus. As those start to lose steam, I expect this “Option 6″ to sadly gain traction….

    …because really, in their silly over-the-top tantrum behavior, where else do they have to go with their mud-slinging slurs, that can top this…?

    RuhRoh: on’t most of these people also expect to be raptured sometime soon? The ultimate secession plan!

  35. avatar
    misha marinsky November 16, 2012 at 6:37 am #

    RuhRoh: I won’t be back. doubt I’m alone there.

    richCares: 2. keep your word, don’t come back

    Could we all lighten up? I’ve posted some intemperate things here, and then regretted it.

    I’m a labor Zionist, and I’ve regularly come down hard on Settlers. I’m furious with Orly Taitz, because she is a shonde.

    Have a conversation with Mr. Jack Daniels.

  36. avatar
    G November 16, 2012 at 6:37 am #

    Agreed.

    misha marinsky: Which is exactly what the Denialists are trying to do.

  37. avatar
    misha marinsky November 16, 2012 at 6:44 am #

    G: the whole EOTWAWKI and “anti-christ” claims by, as you aptly put it, the “rapture” crowd…

    Missionaries wandered into Chabad, on 1st Friday: http://www.visitphilly.com/events/philadelphia/first-friday/

    I was talking with them, and pointed out that the anti-Christ will be Jewish. I then said, “I am the anti-Christ.”

    “No, you’re not.”
    “Don’t believe me at your peril.”

  38. avatar
    Scientist November 16, 2012 at 6:50 am #

    G: Emigration – I expect this to be the least likely outcome for any of them to actually put their money where their mouth is. Most of these folks are all talk and no action. Many of them have unlikely ever been outside of the US in their entire life. Trust me, I’d love to see them leave or “go Galt” or whatever…but unfortunately this is probably the most hollow tantrum threat that they will make…which means we’re stuck with them. *sigh*

    Plus, no country is required to accept them, unless they have dual citizenship. Apuzzo and Arpaio could probably go to Italy and Taitz to Israel. Perhaps Trump’s Scottish mother would obligate the poor Scots to accepts that windbag. But what of the birther rank-and-file? They would have to apply as immigrants. Immigrants without family ties have to possess a skill that the host country needs. What “skills” do the birthers have? Incompetent document analysis? Useless filing of lawsuits? Inability to write coherent sentences in English, let alone whatever language might be spoken in the desired destination?

    Nope, emigration is not an option for most birthers.

  39. avatar
    bovril November 16, 2012 at 7:09 am #

    The problem for these muppets who all want to escape the Ebil Obama is where would the go, where COULD they go and who would have them…?

    Lets be honest, based on the general socio-economic class, educational level, qualifications and demographics seen amongst the majority of the vehement spitlle spraying Birfoon, they ain’t going to be prime emigration material.

    Lets say they want to move to an English speaking place like the UK (never kind the wicked socialized medicine and stuff)

    They would need a Tier 1 or Tier 2 visa, Tier 1 needs no sponsorship, Tier 2 are typically employment related and need a business sponsor

    The 3 categories of Tier 1 are

    Exceptional Talent
    Entrepeneur
    Investor

    For Exceptional Talent they basicaslly have to be a well recognised (ideally world regarded expert or contributer) and need someone at somewhere like the Royal Society to say WE MUST HAVE ‘EM !!!!!!!

    No Birther will ever fit in this bucket

    Then there is Entrepeneur. Basically, create or take over an existing company in England, typically you need a MINIMUM investment of 200,000 but in reality the threshold is closer to employing 10 UK residents and a turn over of about 5,000,000 over 3 years.

    Birthers……Pretty unlikely to meet the thresholds

    Investor……1,000,000 in clear assets invested in the UK

    Tier 2, employment based, need a UK based firm to sponsor you, have to demonstrate your skills and ability are not readily capable of being filled in the UK, similar to the US L1A visa, all fun around pay, ability, background etc etc

    Even here you have to rack up a number of minimum points based on ability, background, experinece and so on and there is a max of 20,700 skilled workers in 2012 (unless you are being paid 150,000 a year or more ~ $240K).

    Not seeing too many Birfoons hitting the bar……………….

  40. avatar
    Thrifty November 16, 2012 at 7:25 am #

    Doc wrote:Einstein’s definition of insanity was doing the same things over and over and expecting different results.

    Grrrrr…. I hate that cliche so much. First of all, did Einstein ever actually say that?

    Secondly, it doesn’t make any sense.

    Lastly, Einstein was indisputably a brilliant man. However, I think if I want a definition for insanity, I’ll consult a psychiatrist instead of a physicist.

  41. avatar
    G November 16, 2012 at 7:25 am #

    Very good points by both of you. Kudos.

    Yeah…even more reason why emigration is the least likely reality here…

    Although, I wonder if in RWNJ world, “emigration” doesn’t actually mean leave the country but just a further “bunker down” in some random backwoods survival shack or family basement…?

    Scientist: But what of the birther rank-and-file? They would have to apply as immigrants. Immigrants without family ties have to possess a skill that the host country needs. What “skills” do the birthers have? Incompetent document analysis? Useless filing of lawsuits? Inability to write coherent sentences in English, let alone whatever language might be spoken in the desired destination?
    Nope, emigration is not an option for most birthers.

    bovril: Lets be honest, based on the general socio-economic class, educational level, qualifications and demographics seen amongst the majority of the vehement spitlle spraying Birfoon, they ain’t going to be prime emigration material.

  42. avatar
    G November 16, 2012 at 7:29 am #

    I can understand your frustration with certain cliche’s or critically questioning their origins…

    …but what part of the saying itself doesn’t actually “make any sense” to you? I’m curious.

    In what way would doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result make reasonable sense???

    Please elucidate. I’m trying to understand your stated position here, but I must be missing something…

    Thrifty: Secondly, it doesn’t make any sense.

  43. avatar
    Thrifty November 16, 2012 at 7:30 am #

    People also use the word “dick” to refer to an unsavory person.

    It’s just an adjective. Lighten up for Christ’s sake.

    RuhRoh: And, Andrew, what’s with the “Twat” reference? REALLY? If I have to spell out to you why this is wrong, you wouldn’t understand why it’s blatantly offensive, misogynistic, etc.

    It’s 2012. We “twat” owners not only outnumber you,. we better you in many ways.

    Cut the misogynistic claptrap. I bet you wonder why you struggle with women. *smdh*

  44. avatar
    Thrifty November 16, 2012 at 7:32 am #

    Roll a die 10 times. Or throw 10 baseballs out into an open field. What do you expect to happen?

    The die will come up with a different result and the baseballs will land at different spots throughout the field. A lot of tasks have an element of randomness to them.

    G: I can understand your frustration with certain cliche’s or critically questioning their origins…

    …but what part of the saying itself doesn’t actually “make any sense” to you? I’m curious.

    In what way would doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result make reasonable sense???

  45. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG November 16, 2012 at 8:22 am #

    RuhRoh: And, Andrew, what’s with Cut the misogynistic claptrap.

    No misogyny intended. I have a good friend in Wales, and over time some of her slang rubbed off on me.

  46. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG November 16, 2012 at 9:27 am #

    Thrifty:
    Roll a die 10 times.Or throw 10 baseballs out into an open field.What do you expect to happen?

    The die will come up with a different result and the baseballs will land at different spots throughout the field.A lot of tasks have an element of randomness to them.

    But the die is going to be of the same sides as it was when you rolled it. No matter how many times you roll it. Birthers are rolling a 4-sided die, expecting a natural 20.

  47. avatar
    The Magic M November 16, 2012 at 9:40 am #

    Thrifty: A lot of tasks have an element of randomness to them.

    And indeed, so does the legal system, in a way. You may always find one judge (or more) in a hundred who sides with a minority opinion on a certain legal issue.

    But the point is something else:

    1. After the elections, any possible propaganda value of “judge in Burnt Scrotum, AZ, finds Prez ineligible” is close to nil. It might have made an impact close before the elections, but not now (as we all know, if it ever happened, it would be reversed on appeal and fade from public interest as quickly as it came up).

    2. The cases in point (birthplace, Vattelism) are so legally outlandish that it’s not just a matter of minority opinion to agree with them. Unless you find an actual birther judge…

    3. Finally, given your system of case law, Orly is doing her best to create precedent in every state of the union that birtherism has no legal basis. Which is why I love to taunt birthers that she’s doing that on purpose to thwart any “legitimate” proceeding later. :)

  48. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG November 16, 2012 at 10:57 am #

    Judge Burnt Scrotum is trying the case? THE Judge Burnt Scrotum?! Aw geez, the President is in real trouble now!

  49. avatar
    Scientist November 16, 2012 at 11:05 am #

    Thrifty: People also use the word “dick” to refer to an unsavory person.

    Like Dick Morris, for example.

  50. avatar
    misha marinsky November 16, 2012 at 11:16 am #

    Scientist: Like Dick Morris, for example.

    Tricky Dick Nixon

  51. avatar
    misha marinsky November 16, 2012 at 11:17 am #

    The Magic M: “judge in Burnt Scrotum, AZ, finds Prez ineligible”

    Which is right next to East Bumf*ck, AZ.

  52. avatar
    bgansel9 November 16, 2012 at 12:31 pm #

    A new option has just surfaced: Abrogation (with bonus waterboarding) –

    http://moralmatters.org/2012/11/16/secession-not-the-answer-obama-white-house-occupier-abrogation-the-solution/

  53. avatar
    G November 16, 2012 at 12:57 pm #

    Ok, I see how you are looking at the analogy and understand the point you are attempting. However, analogies and anecdotes come with implied context, and what you’ve proposed would work on that saying in a vacuum, but does not match up with the context in which it is intended, in reference to the Birther’s actions.

    Andrew’s point back to you on this in within context:

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: But the die is going to be of the same sides as it was when you rolled it. No matter how many times you roll it. Birthers are rolling a 4-sided die, expecting a natural 20.

    In short, what you are overlooking, in your mere gut aversion to a phrase that irks you, is that the expectations of the Birthers in these scenarios fall outside the realm of realistic probability.

    And that brings up a word choice that tends to “irk” me – “random” and “randomness”. There really is no such thing as pure “randomness” as you imply. The correct concept is probability . Things that seem random only do so, when one does not understand the extent of factors and contraints involved in the range of associated actions and possible results.

    So, to keep the context of the “Einstein quote analogy” along with Andrew’s statement, while it could be conceived as somewhat reasonable for someone unfamiliar with a 4-sided die (translation – birthers unfamiliar with law, constitutional concepts, etc.) might not grasp that it won’t give them a 20 (tranlsation – their desired result of “remove the ursurper”), as soon as they start picking up that die, examining it and throwing it (translate as both the process of actually looking into the issues they question, paying attention to the pursuit of them in court and receiving an official response back from the court), it would quickly become apparent to any sane and rational person that “20″ falls very far outside the parameters of possibility that the 4-sided die can offer them… It doesn’t matter that the result of the throw can vary – as it is not really “random” but constrained to a set of really producing only either a 1, 2, 3 OR 4. No “magic thinking” will ever get them a “20″.

    You could suggest that they look for a 20-sided or greater die to cast then…well, in context of analogy, that would be equivalent to taking an entirely different and new approach.

    Thrifty:
    Roll a die 10 times.Or throw 10 baseballs out into an open field.What do you expect to happen?

    The die will come up with a different result and the baseballs will land at different spots throughout the field.A lot of tasks have an element of randomness to them.

  54. avatar
    aarrgghh November 16, 2012 at 1:04 pm #
    Thrifty: Roll a die 10 times.Or throw 10 baseballs out into an open field. What do you expect to happen?

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: But the die is going to be of the same sides as it was when you rolled it. No matter how many times you roll it. Birthers are rolling a 4-sided die, expecting a natural 20.

    exactly. birfers are throwing baseballs into that open field and expecting them not to land.

    the maxim is about expecting results that one’s actions can never achieve.

  55. avatar
    aarrgghh November 16, 2012 at 1:07 pm #

    G: the expectations of the Birthers in these scenarios fall outside the realm of realistic probability

    exactamundo.

  56. avatar
    G November 16, 2012 at 1:10 pm #

    Then again, this new “abrogation” attempt is just another version of their “magic reset button” in their fantasy wishful thinking tantrums.

    So I wouldn’t say this is anything really “new”….just one of their most cherished, childish and unrealistic notions, under new packaging.

    There never was and never will be any “magic reset button” that can wish it all away…so there is really nothing more to this infantile and silly “retroactive abrogation” campaign than their wails of “make it all go away” that they’ve been crying since he won the 2008 election.

    It is a lamer and sadder form of fantasy protest than even their fake grand jury attempts…

    So, the only thing that stands out here to me is that they are trying to “rebrand” the “magic reset button concept” and to designate this particular line of “rinse.repeat” tantrums as their most ineffective and harmless delusional pursuits.

    bgansel9:
    A new option has just surfaced:Abrogation (with bonus waterboarding) –

    http://moralmatters.org/2012/11/16/secession-not-the-answer-obama-white-house-occupier-abrogation-the-solution/

  57. avatar
    G November 16, 2012 at 1:12 pm #

    Indeed. KUDOS for stating it so succinctly!!!

    aarrgghh: the maxim is about expecting results that one’s actions can never achieve.

  58. avatar
    JPotter November 16, 2012 at 1:58 pm #

    bgansel9: A new option has just surfaced: Abrogation (with bonus waterboarding) –

    Classic comment on that page:

    “FINALLY! SOME COMMON SENSE!!!”

    :D

  59. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 16, 2012 at 3:22 pm #

    Utterly childish.

    bgansel9: A new option has just surfaced: Abrogation

  60. avatar
    Wile November 16, 2012 at 4:43 pm #

    Option #7…

    Refuse to engage in capitalism with socialists…

    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2012/11/obama_voters_arizona_gun_store_southwest_shooting_authority.php

  61. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG November 16, 2012 at 4:56 pm #

    That’s okay. Bass Pro Shop and Cabela’s are more than happy to accept that money.
    *sigh* I wish the Bass Pro in Springfield still had that giant wall mounted pheasant shooting game.

  62. avatar
    bgansel9 November 16, 2012 at 5:23 pm #

    G:
    Then again, this new “abrogation” attempt is just another version of their “magic reset button” in their fantasy wishful thinking tantrums.

    So I wouldn’t say this is anything really “new”….just one of their most cherished, childish and unrealistic notions, under new packaging.

    I consider the packaging to be new. I agree it’s the same recycled crappy product.

  63. avatar
    JPotter November 16, 2012 at 5:24 pm #

    Wile: Refuse to engage in capitalism with socialists…

    That calls for a campaign t-shirt’d flash mob! Oh, to live in AZ for a day … looks like it’s even more fun than Broken Arrow, Okieland! ;)

  64. avatar
    Keith November 16, 2012 at 7:56 pm #

    Keith:
    My wife, who is Australian, uses the word ‘twat’ where I use the word ‘twit’.

    Offensiveness is in the eye of the beholder.

    Australians also use the word ‘crutch’ where Americans use the word ‘crotch’. Context is everything.

    I also forgot to point out that, in Australia, the ‘bum’ is on the opposite side of the body than in America. I get in trouble for that all the time.

  65. avatar
    Keith November 16, 2012 at 8:04 pm #

    Thrifty: People also use the word “dick” to refer to an unsavory person.

    And don’t watch the original UK “Top Gear” program. James May just loves to talk about roosters (if you know what I mean).

  66. avatar
    Keith November 16, 2012 at 8:06 pm #

    misha marinsky: Tricky Dick Nixon

    Hey, why change Dicks in the middle of a screw?

  67. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 16, 2012 at 8:07 pm #

    And don’t forget the WC Fields movie, The Bank Dick.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0032234/

    Thrifty: People also use the word “dick” to refer to an unsavory person.

  68. avatar
    aarrgghh November 17, 2012 at 5:44 pm #

    file this one under “option #1″ aka “we gottem dis time!”:

    How to un-elect Obama & let House of Reps pick the President

    Posted by SWLA Tea Party
    Steve Farber
    November 16, 2012 2:30pm

    Passing this on…

    This election does not get decided until Mid-December when the Electoral College cast their votes.

    According to Article II of the U.S. Constitution AND the 12th Amendment – if 1/3rd of the States do not cast their votes in the Electoral College — then the matter falls onto the House of Representatives to choose the President.

    In other words — if we pressure Congressmen, State Party Officials, and groups such as Tea Party Patriots, Heritage Foundation, etc., to call on RED States to NOT have their Electors cast their vote — then the House of Reps CAN choose the next President!!!!!

    The democrats are stealing this election and it is up to WE, the people, to put the hammer down on their widespread vote-fraud. The founding-fathers gave us the Electoral College for several reasons. Vote-Fraud is one of those reasons.

    [yada yada birf birf ...]

    … If just 17 RED States agreed to NOT cast their votes in the electoral college – then it goes to the House. And if pressured – they just might do it.

    We do NOT have to convince ANY democrats – at all.

    All we have to do is convince 1/3 of the States to NOT cast their electoral college votes.

    Well more than 1/3 of the States did in fact vote as RED States. And they too can see the obvious, wide-spread vote-fraud which has taken place.

    So, if the Electors in 17 States which Romney won decided to NOT cast their electoral college votes — then the electoral college does not meet the requirement as defined in the Constitution. And in such a case, the electoral college is thereby null and void. The matter then goes to the House.

    [yada yada birf birf ...]

  69. avatar
    Northland10 November 17, 2012 at 8:23 pm #

    aarrgghh: file this one under “option #1″ aka “we gottem dis time!”

    Right wing lack of reading comprehension strikes again. They are such good defenders of what they think the Constitution says but, as always, they are wrong again.

    The writer’s grand plan of the 1/3 not voting has a glaring flaw. It refers to the quorum requirements should the choice devolve upon them. There must be at least 2/3 of the states represented. However, the requirement for the electoral college vote, the candidate with the most votes need only a majority of the electors appointed (Article II and Amendment 12). If 1/3 of the Romney states refused to vote, Obama still has a majority of the electors appointed.

    Oopsie.

    I just love these “patriots” who try to find a way to take the freedom and liberty of others away, if the majority does something they do not like. Yet, their scheme to disenfranchise the voters has hit a Constitutional snag. The creation and setup of the electoral college is preventing the their dreamed of attempt at “cabal, intrigues and corruption” in the selection of the President. It almost seems like the Constitutional Convention intended it that way.

  70. avatar
    aarrgghh November 17, 2012 at 9:37 pm #

    Northland10: I just love these “patriots” who try to find a way to take the freedom and liberty of others away, if the majority does something they do not like.Yet, their scheme to disenfranchise the voters has hit a Constitutional snag.The creation and setup of the electoral college is preventing the their dreamed of attempt at “cabal, intrigues and corruption” in the selection of the President.It almost seems like the Constitutional Convention intended it that way.

    case in point: freeper gulch’s boss hoss and tea bagger revolutionary jim robinson, today:

    What is my solution?

    Obvious. Go back to the constitution.

    Do a constitutional audit on the federal government. Shutter, repeal, overturn, abolish, privatize and or return to the states and the people each and every federal department, agency, commission, program, edict, act, law, regulation, court decision, etc, that is not explicitly enumerated and delegated to the federal government by the constitution.

    ObamaCare repealed. Dodd Frank Repealed. The EPA, the TSA, the ATF and hundreds of other such unconstitutional fascist federal agencies shuttered and closed for good. The federal government is not authorized by the constitution to be involved in health, education, welfare, housing, mortgages, banking, farming, industry, business, transportation, drugs, alcohol, tobacco, firearms, retirement insurance, health insurance, mortgage insurance, banking insurance or any insurance or social programs whatsoever. Shut it all down, privatize it or return it to the states and the people, and that includes social security and medicare and any and all other such entitlements.

    Repeal the 16th and 17th amendments, abolish the income tax and the IRS and fully restore the ninth and tenth amendments and restore the balance of powers between the states, the people and their representatives at the federal level.

    The sooner the above is tackled and accomplished the sooner we save our nation.

    It’s what’s going to have to happen after the coming collapse anyway should we somehow escape being taken over by some communist country.

    Start by immediately declaring as unconstitutional and repealing ObamaCare, Dodd Frank and any and all socialist crap put in recently by the usurping Marxist and his socialist democrat cabal. We obviously do not need any of that crap. If the supreme court can’t or won’t do it, form a coalition of governors and state governments to refuse to allow their states to go along with it or to be coerced or extorted by the feds. The states should refuse to accept any unconstitutional funds whatsoever from the federal government. Start working on privatizing and phasing out social security and medicare. And shuttering the EPA, etc. Don’t need it and it’s killing us. Then start on the constitutional amendments to repeal the 16th and 17th.

  71. avatar
    RuhRoh November 18, 2012 at 1:59 am #

    It’s late and I am tired, but somewhere upthread a commenter suggested that I was in fact the one bringing “more objectionable language” into the comments. That commenter missed my point, which was that the word that I found objectionable was equally as offensive as the ones that I listed which he felt were out of bounds. They’re all of a piece, as it were.

    What I take away from the discussion:

    -Some words that Americans find objectionable might be less so in other English-speaking countries.

    -As I said in my post, Doc can’t babysit us 24/7/365, and Doc added that word filters can be as harmful as beneficial

    -Some people have no idea why the word that set me off is as bad as those they deem worse and feel I shouldn’t have mentioned

    -Even here, where the vast majority of posters are thoughtful and considerate, certain sorts of historical/indoctrinated/establishment forms of sexism, and perhaps other -isms, aren’t even recognized and will be allowed to stand, but debated by the community. I think I can live with that; it doesn’t go unnoticed or without mention and rebuke.

  72. avatar
    JPotter November 21, 2012 at 12:06 am #

    In a pair of votes for the Keep On Birfin’ school of thought, Troller Jack Osbourne and Tracy ‘KBOA’ Fair are keeping the endothermic flame alive over at Amazon. For the connoisseurs of concentrated crazy, it’s not to be missed …. they’re furiously spinning all your repetitive faves.

    Huffington Post Declares Obama Born in Kenya

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