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Zullo’s irrelevant affidavit

William Talman playing Hamilton Burger character“Incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial!”

I try to put the best face on things, but I can’t think of any honorable reason for Mike Zullo’s affidavit (embedded at the end of this article) submitted in the case of McInnish v. Chapman to the Alabama Supreme Court. It is incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial.

The question before the Alabama Supreme Court is one of election law, and whether the Alabama Secretary of State has a duty to obtain documentation of candidates for President of the United States before placing them on the ballot or certifying votes for them. Generally courts of appeal decide questions of law, not questions of fact. The Alabama Supreme Court is not looking into the validity of Obama’s personal documentation but whether the lower courts were correct in dismissing the McInnish suit. (When a case is dismissed, questions of fact are not decided.) That is why the Zullo affidavit is irrelevant, being nothing but a collection of allegations against the President.

McInnish is being represented by counsel, and therefore it is known to him that the affidavit is irrelevant to the decision that the Alabama Supreme Court is deciding. If the affidavit is known to be irrelevant, then it is being submitted for another purpose, and it is patently obvious that the purpose is to publicize the allegations through the lawsuit, an improper purpose. While birthers make all sorts of unproven claims, it is beyond question that it is the birthers themselves who are guilty of all sorts of improper conduct (frivolous lawsuits, politically motivated lawsuits, and illegal access to federal databases just to name a few).

The latest Zullo affidavit begins with a bald-faced lie, saying that the information in the affidavit is based on his “personal knowledge.” For example, Zullo says that Mara Zebest is “contributing author and technical editor for more than 100 books on Adobe and Microsoft software.” That might be true, or it might not (I’ve never been able to find evidence that it is true), but in either case Zullo is not a publisher of books and has no personal knowledge of whether it is true or not. Zullo could never testify in court as to the qualifications of Zebest—he doesn’t have any personal knowledge of them.

Mike Zullo proves his incompetence in law enforcement matters by asserting that his affidavit is competent testimony admissible in court. It is a compilation of rumors, hearsay and inexpert conclusions.

Frank Arduini spent considerable effort exposing the previous Zullo affidavit as garbage, and this latest is in the same vein. What I think is going on here is an attempt to cover up the fact that Zullo keeps promising real results, and never produces them. This is just more noise, and submitting it with the McInnish appeal somehow makes it look like something “official.”

Zullo Affidavit by AnitaMariaS



See also the analysis by bovril.

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125 Responses to Zullo’s irrelevant affidavit

  1. avatar
    bovril May 16, 2013 at 6:11 am #

    Speaking of the ab-thinking of Birfoons, I haven’t seen anything posted here yet on the latest and greatest version of the Grand Master and Panjandurum Lord Highest Zullo of Piehole’s Daffyfavit O’Doom……. 8-)

    For them who missed it over at The Fogbow, Zuper Zullo has added his every expanding waistline….sorry “investigation daffydavit” as a faux amicus to the Alabama appeal.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/141551627/Zullo-Affidavit

    Full of ripe and crunchy nutty goodness

    For those who do not have the intestinal fortitude to slog through all the pages a synposis is….

    Para 1. Some old white folkses don’t like the n*igger in the White House and asked Piehole to get hiz papers ’cause he’s funny and bleck and probly mexkin

    Para 2. Imply that Grand Poobah and Emporer Zullo is a real law boy aka Deputy Shurrif

    Para 3. Joe is a God

    Para 4. Joe is REALLY a God

    Para 5. Wut..?

    Para 6-16. We IZ legal n lawful n stuff, don’t ignore us, the Shurrif loves us and thinks we iz sooper speshul and wunerful and we iz dead wull trainded

    Para 17-20. Jerome is luvely, you know him heeza dead important clever geezah

    Para 21-35. We did good stuff we nowz ded clever egzpurts and they all agree that there’s a scary n*gger in the Whote House AND HE’S A DEMOCRAT

    Para 36-37. Boss Hogg sez the dark skinned guy is probably mexikan and Hawai’i ain’t even a real part of ‘Murika, probably part of mexikano

    Para 38-41. STOP IGNORING ME..Boss Hogg iz real impotent

    Para 42-45. Ya-boo sux to youse, we got us a reel egspurt with mad skillz and gave uz a 40 page rep[ort that sez what we said abuve. SO THERE !!! (ps itz seekrit)

    Para 45-54. HAHA we showed the Obots itz a reel forgeryification they can’t keep laffing at uz and any way the darkie iz really a fake an probly a ‘mexikanz

    Para 55-57. HAHA we showed them OBOTS AGIN ’cause we checked and itz a PDF so itz not a reel thing…SO THER and Hawai’i broke some rulez so ther!!

    Para 58-60. Anyway even if the burf cerfictae izn’t fake everything else iz…so there

    Para 61-90. Mara iz ded good and showded that itz all fakey and luk we can start a computer, except for Mara when itz a presser…STOP LAFFING!!!!!

    Para 91-93. I felz a sleeeeep and my head typed stuff when it hit the keybord, lookz gud to me

    Para 94. Sorry I need coffee

    Para 95-103 Any way all burf certicatz are fake, luk the gubmint which lies all the time sez so, so no one has a reel one and anyway its all cuz of Mexicka

    Para 104-110 Anyone who disgarees iz a poopy head speshally that horrid gubner Abercrombie, he’s horrid and haz cooties.

    Para 111-133 Everyone in Hawai’i is lyin and a poopyhead and probly ‘Mexikano ignore ‘em and pee-pee on that Constitution thingy

    Para 134-152 They’re still poopyheads and anyway everyone kno’s that Hawai’i isn’t really ‘Murika and iz probaly furrin and ‘mexikan

    Para 153-206 We don’t need to prove it but lets just poo out some more poo ’cause Jerry, you remember Jerry sez so.

    Para 207 Well anyway we haven’t got hiz medical records that don”t show he’a a reptilian or hiz pazzport ’cause real ‘merkans don’t need them ’cause they don’t leave the bestest country in the WORL or hiz kindergarten stuff so he’s a n*gger and a DEMOKRAT and they all lies and OBOTS are all horrid and have cooties and don’t dare ignore uz or else !!!! so ther and anyway my frined butterbutt sez they all proved it and confurmed it and stuff

  2. avatar
    The Magic M May 16, 2013 at 8:59 am #

    bovril: For those who do not have the intestinal fortitude to slog through all the pages a synposis is….

    Egg salad, uh, excellent. ;)

    I came up with another analogy for the Zullo affidavit:

    Assume I sue my neighbour because I claim he stole my car. What proper “law enforcement” would then submit an “affidavit” in my civil case effectively stating “yeah, he’s right, guy done stole his car, we haz witnesses who sez so”? Instead of taking the case to a criminal court and naming any witness to the alleged crime.

    Remember, hearsay is still hearsay when it comes from a shurf. No criminal court would convict on “we haz sekrit witznesses, you best believe!”, nor would a civil court entertain it.

    And of course the best part is submitting this “evidence” as exhibit to a motion to strike an amicus brief.
    But Klayman says it himself, he knows it’s inadmissible evidence, but (non sequitur) “if you allow the amicus brief, you must allow my Zullo stories”.

  3. avatar
    Scientist May 16, 2013 at 9:22 am #

    Isn’t the entire case a challenge to Obama being on the ballot in an election that took place 6 months ago in a state he didn’t win anyway? isn’t the entire matter moot? Am I missing something?

  4. avatar
    Lupin May 16, 2013 at 9:38 am #

    A propos the previous post, Dante had a place in Hell for people like Zullo:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferno_%28Dante%29#Eighth_Circle_.28Fraud.29

  5. avatar
    Greenfinches May 16, 2013 at 9:43 am #

    Scientist: Isn’t the entire case a challenge to Obama being on the ballot in an election that took place 6 months ago in a state he didn’t win anyway? isn’t the entire matter moot? Am I missing something?

    but but but… this is bigger than Watergate, damn it, a threat to the very existence of the US ….

    or something, beats me!

  6. avatar
    alg May 16, 2013 at 9:58 am #

    Scientist:
    Isn’t the entire case a challenge to Obama being on the ballot in an election that took place 6 months ago in a state he didn’t win anyway?isn’t the entire matter moot?Am I missing something?

    By George, I think you’ve got it! Yes, let’s strike Mr. Obama’s name from a ballot that no longer exists to invalidate electoral college votes he never got. Yeah….that’s the ticket!

    One wonders what part of hyperspace Klayman got himself turned around in.

  7. avatar
    JD May 16, 2013 at 10:01 am #

    One minor point, in the document he spends a great deal of time claiming that birth announcements are exactly ordered alike in the two newspapers, and that is the only time that happened in a certain amount of time. He goes on about that no editor did anything to the announcements as they came over from the health department. If the was no editing, then why is August spelled out in one and Aug. in the other.

  8. avatar
    The Magic M May 16, 2013 at 10:04 am #

    > What I think is going on here is an attempt to cover up the fact that Zullo keeps promising real results, and never produces them.

    I wonder if the people over at ORYR will cover up Zullogate or if they will listen to the people who have correctly pointed out that the promise of “never-before published new evidence” in this affidavit has not been delivered.

    Scientist: isn’t the entire matter moot? Am I missing something?

    A “sane” motive would be the everlasting quest for propaganda value. Also, the hope that “one honest judge” would be the domino that sets the avalanche in motion.

    The more insane birthers believe Roy Moore could “sua sponte” start an investigation into Obama’s records if they only convinced him there was some “there” there.

  9. avatar
    Thinker May 16, 2013 at 10:09 am #

    In referencing the birth announcements, Zullo writes this in paragraph 195:
    “Both newspapers, the Honolulu Advertiser and the Star Bulletin,carried the announcement that Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4, 1961, to Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama who resided at 6085 Kalanianaole Highway.”

    Uh, no they didn’t. The birth announcements do not contain the name of the child. He copied this sentence, error and all, from an article Corsi wrote for WND in August of 2009. http://www.wnd.com/2009/08/107337/

  10. avatar
    Hermitian May 16, 2013 at 10:28 am #

    The new expanded Zullo affidavit was filed as Exhibit 1 within “APPELLANTS ‘ MOTION TO STRIKE BRIEF OF AMICUS CURIAE of the Alabama Democrat Party. Zullo’s original affidavit was cited as the basis for the original election challenge for which the ADP was not a party. The motion to strike was in response to the inclusion of documents purporting to verify Obama’s Hawaiian birth in the ADP’s AMICUS CURIAE brief. These documents were previously not produced to the lower court. The plaintiff’s motion to strike was necessary to prevent the “back door” introduction of evidence by the ADP (after the fact). The expanded Zullo affidavit was included to refute these birth related documents given the possibility that the Alabama Supreme Court might take judicial notice of said documents.

  11. avatar
    bovril May 16, 2013 at 10:36 am #

    My favourite parts are how Sultan Zullo and Co decide that no BC anywhere is good for any purpose and they are all faked anyway…..Then inelegantly segueing to irrelevant Abercrombie comments as if the two are tied together.

    What is conspicuously missing from all this “proof” is the point that the entire report they quote was pointed at CA and TX birth certificates which had well know and long established and identified issues and NOT Hawai’i……

  12. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 16, 2013 at 11:21 am #

    Only appellate courts don’t consider evidence.

    Hermitian: The new expanded Zullo affidavit was filed as Exhibit 1 within “APPELLANTS ‘ MOTION TO STRIKE BRIEF OF AMICUS CURIAE of the Alabama Democrat Party. Zullo’s original affidavit was cited as the basis for the original election challenge for which the ADP was not a party. The motion to strike was in response to the inclusion of documents purporting to verify Obama’s Hawaiian birth in the ADP’s AMICUS CURIAE brief. These documents were previously not produced to the lower court. The plaintiff’s motion to strike was necessary to prevent the “back door” introduction of evidence by the ADP (after the fact). The expanded Zullo affidavit was included to refute these birth related documents given the possibility that the Alabama Supreme Court might take judicial notice of said documents.

  13. avatar
    gorefan May 16, 2013 at 11:32 am #

    Hermitian: The expanded Zullo affidavit was included to refute these birth related documents given the possibility that the Alabama Supreme Court might take judicial notice of said documents.

    The Alabama Supreme Court has consistently refused to take “judicial notice” of new evidence.

    EX PARTE BAKER 459 So.2d 873 (1984) – “In determining whether the trial court abused its discretion, this court is bound by the record and cannot consider a statement or evidence in brief that was not before the trial court.”

    EX PARTE EPHRAIM 806 So.2d 352 (2001) – “This Court does not review evidence presented for the first time on appeal.”

    EX PARTE EBBERS 871 So.2d 776 (2003) “None of the articles now proffered by RSA were among those submitted to Judge Price, and we know of no legitimate basis for taking “judicial notice” of copies of news articles (all of which are shown by notations at their top to have been extracted from Internet sources).”

  14. avatar
    The Magic M May 16, 2013 at 11:39 am #

    Thinker: He copied this sentence, error and all, from an article Corsi wrote for WND in August of 2009.

    Wouldn’t that warrant criminal prosecution for perjury? Attesting to “facts” from “personal knowledge” that obviously are false (and/or not personal knowledge) under penalty of perjury?
    What would it take for a DA to take up such a case?

  15. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 16, 2013 at 11:50 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Only appellate courts don’t consider evidence.

    More evidence of a grand conspiracy dating back to…..uh…..the founding of the republic!! Where was George Soros in 1787?

    Reading the affidavit it’s obvious that it’s nothing but a cut and paste job of every nonsensical claim the birthers have ever made. I notice that it is not signed or dated. Do you know if it has been filed yet, Doc.

    For the record I make note one of Zullo’s claims regarding Arpaio’s power to confer peace officer authority on his deputies…..or anyone, for that matter. That’s all nonsense. All peace officer powers are defined and conferred by the state…..except for sheriffs who are constitutional officers.

  16. avatar
    Hermitian May 16, 2013 at 11:50 am #

    bovril: What is conspicuously missing from all this “proof” is the point that the entire report they quote was pointed at CA and TX birth certificates which had well know and long established and identified issues and NOT Hawai’i……

    Taken verbatim from said report.

    “METHODOLOGY

    “We used two mechanisms to conduct this inspection. We first solicited information from
    the 57 primary vital records offices (50 States, Guam, Puerto Rico, United States Virgin
    Islands, American Samoa, Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, New York
    City, and Washington, DC) using mail surveys. This enabled us to quickly gather general
    information regarding vital records policies and procedures; security measures in place to
    protect against birth certificate fraud; coordination with other agencies; and enforcement
    penalties for committing identity fraud. Of the 57 surveys mailed, 53 were completed and
    returned. We received completed surveys from vital records registrars in each of the 50
    States, and New York City, Washington, DC, and Puerto Rico. We did not receive
    completed surveys from American Samoa, Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana
    Islands, Guam, or the United States Virgin Islands.

    “We selected six locations — five States (California, Florida, Massachusetts, New Mexico,
    and Texas) and New York City — for additional data collection. Of these States, 4 were
    among the 11 States included in the 1988 and 1991 OIG inspections, as was
    New York City. The original 11 sites were selected because they represent states with
    large cities, cities that serve as major ports, or cities along the United States-Mexico
    border where birth certificate fraud was more concentrated. Because we believe this
    premise remains valid, we included some of these same States in this study. We included
    New Mexico based on information obtained from State registrars, the Immigration and
    Naturalization Service, and the National Center for Health Statistics during preinspection.
    The locations selected represent a mix of States with “open” and “restricted” (limited)
    public access to records, and include various geographic regions.

    “Birth Certificate Fraud

    “In the six locations, we collected more in-depth information about the coordination
    between agencies, matching death registration and birth certificates, security measures,
    enforcement, and the effects of new technology on birth certificate fraud. This
    information was obtained through personal interviews with State registrars, fraud
    investigators, local and State vital records agency staff, and local and State Temporary
    Assistance for Needy Families agency staff. We also collected information from the
    Departments of Motor Vehicles and Food Stamps staffs who require birth certificates as
    proof of eligibility for program services or benefits, and officials from SSA, Immigration
    and Naturalization Service, and State Department’s Passport Services. We also met with
    the Center for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Health Statistics staff
    who provided us with comments on the draft of this report.”

    Only CA and TX ???

    Obots can’t read a lick !!!

  17. avatar
    gorefan May 16, 2013 at 11:53 am #

    CarlOrcas: Do you know if it has been filed yet,

    Yes it has.

  18. avatar
    Hermitian May 16, 2013 at 12:01 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Only appellate courts don’t consider evidence.

    Appellate courts don’t consider new evidence which had not been previously produced in the lower court. This includes all of the new evidence in the ADP BRIEF OF AMICUS CURIAE.

  19. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 16, 2013 at 12:15 pm #

    gorefan: Yes it has.

    Signed and notarized, I hope?

    If you have seen it where was it notarized?

  20. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG May 16, 2013 at 12:15 pm #

    Other I words that accurately describe Zullo’s affidavit:
    Idiotic
    Impotent
    …Well that’s all I got.

  21. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 16, 2013 at 12:15 pm #

    I missed this one. The New American web site says:

    World Net Daily, among others, is reporting that “the nation’s toughest sheriff,” Maricopa County, Arizona, Sheriff Joe Arpaio (shown), and his team of investigators called the “Cold Case Team” will soon give evidence in a case before the Alabama Supreme Court considering whether Barack Obama is qualified to serve as president of the United States.

    These folks are totally nuts.

  22. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 16, 2013 at 12:36 pm #

    The case was dismissed, therefore there was NO EVIDENCE before the lower court; therefore any evidence submitted by anybody is irrelevant.

    Hermitian: Appellate courts don’t consider new evidence which had not been previously produced in the lower court. This includes all of the new evidence in the ADP BRIEF OF AMICUS CURIAE.

  23. avatar
    Cletus May 16, 2013 at 12:51 pm #

    What struck me as odd:
    Zully describes meeting with Jerome Corsi, but disregarding any of his information as evidence.
    ” To preserve the independence and integrity of our investigation Dr. Corsi’s information would be utilized as investigative background information only. ”

    Yet most of the rest of the affidavit is taken verbatim from Corsi’s previous articles.

  24. avatar
    gorefan May 16, 2013 at 1:21 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Signed and notarized, I hope?

    If you have seen it where was it notarized?

    You can see it with the Motion to Strike (page 70).

    https://acis.alabama.gov/displaydocs.cfm?no=499989&event=29HCK99NA0BJ

    James C. Jackson of Maricopa County was the notary.

  25. avatar
    nbc May 16, 2013 at 1:34 pm #

    Hermitian: The expanded Zullo affidavit was included to refute these birth related documents given the possibility that the Alabama Supreme Court might take judicial notice of said documents.

    The Court can take judicial notice of these facts but cannot take judicial notice of the speculations by private citizen Zullo.

  26. avatar
    nbc May 16, 2013 at 1:37 pm #

    Cletus: Yet most of the rest of the affidavit is taken verbatim from Corsi’s previous articles.

    Yes… is that not fascinating…

  27. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund May 16, 2013 at 1:39 pm #

    Hermitian: The new expanded Zullo affidavit was filed as Exhibit 1 within “APPELLANTS ‘ MOTION TO STRIKE BRIEF OF AMICUS CURIAE of the Alabama Democrat Party. Zullo’s original affidavit was cited as the basis for the original election challenge for which the ADP was not a party. The motion to strike was in response to the inclusion of documents purporting to verify Obama’s Hawaiian birth in the ADP’s AMICUS CURIAE brief. These documents were previously not produced to the lower court.

    Except that most of them were previously produced, in the form of excerpts and attachments to Zullo’s original affidavit. An argument might be made about “C” (the verification letter to Bennett), but the others were clearly described or included in lower court filings, and the ADP brief is clear that it is addressing those filings directly.

  28. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund May 16, 2013 at 1:46 pm #

    Also, even if some or all of the attached documents are “new evidence” they are severable from the rest of the brief. Most of the brief would not need to be stricken from the record.

  29. avatar
    Northland10 May 16, 2013 at 2:03 pm #

    CarlOrcas:
    For the record I make note one of Zullo’s claims regarding Arpaio’s power to confer peace officer authority on his deputies…..or anyone, for that matter. That’s all nonsense. All peace officer powers are defined and conferred by the state…..except for sheriffs who are constitutional officers.

    I have not heard him ever state he has Arizona Law Enforcement Certification, even the limited version. As this is something arranged through the local agency, was he not able to be certified or is the Sheriff to cheap to pay for the training?

  30. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 16, 2013 at 2:12 pm #

    gorefan: You can see it with the Motion to Strike (page 70).

    https://acis.alabama.gov/displaydocs.cfm?no=499989&event=29HCK99NA0BJ

    James C. Jackson of Maricopa County was the notary.

    OK. He notarized another affidavit for Zullo last December .

  31. avatar
    nbc May 16, 2013 at 2:17 pm #

    gorefan: EX PARTE BAKER 459 So.2d 873 (1984) – “In determining whether the trial court abused its discretion, this court is bound by the record and cannot consider a statement or evidence in brief that was not before the trial court.”

    This one does not discuss judicial notice as the document would not fall under such.

  32. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 16, 2013 at 2:21 pm #

    Northland10: I have not heard him ever state he has Arizona Law Enforcement Certification, even the limited version.As this is something arranged through the local agency, was he not able to be certified or is the Sheriff to cheap to pay for the training?

    Well…..he has danced around it for quite a while. This is the first time I’ve noticed him clearly saying he is a “former” police officer but then he gets into the nonsense about Arpaio being able to confer peace officer authority on the posse. This is part of the nonsense about sheriff’s being the “chief law enforcement officer” and is misconstrued from an old section of Title 13, as I recall, that allows a peace officer to summon a person to his/her assistance and the sheriff’s authority to form posses.

    In order to be certified by AZPOST a person must successfully complete a certified academy and then pass muster with POST. The requirements are exactly the same for paid and reserve officers to have full powers.

    The posse members are not reserve officers and AZPOST provides no training criteria or certification for them.

    As to why Zullo has not attended an academy in all the time he has lived in Arizona……I have no idea.

  33. avatar
    Reality Check May 16, 2013 at 2:27 pm #

    Zullo mentioned some sort of training he had taken when he gave his background as Supreme Commander of the CCP on one of the lovefests with Gallops.

  34. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 16, 2013 at 2:32 pm #

    Reality Check:
    Zullo mentioned some sort of training he had taken when he gave his background as Supreme Commander of the CCP on one of the lovefests with Gallops.

    I recall some mention by him – several times I think – of how members of the posse have been briefed or trained by sheriff’s detectives who work forgery.

    Beyond that…………………………………..

  35. avatar
    Bovril May 16, 2013 at 2:32 pm #

    Hermitian: Only CA and TX ???
    Obots can’t read a lick !!!

    Hermy dear, did YOU actually read the DETAIL, guess which states were predominately the one with issues…. ?

  36. avatar
    nbc May 16, 2013 at 2:37 pm #

    See for “judicial notice”, even though it is not clear if this affects appellate courts.

    Turner v. State, 746 So. 2d 355 – Ala: Supreme Court 1998

    Cullman Broadcasting Co. v. Bosley, 373 So. 2d 830 – Ala: Supreme Court 1979

    It is undisputed that there was no evidence relating to the type of music each of these radio stations broadcasts. Courts may take judicial notice of matters of common knowledge without suggestion of counsel, O’Barr v. Feist, 292 Ala. 440, 296 So.2d 152 (1974), and without proof thereof. Green v. Mutual Benefit Health & Accident Ass’n, 267 Ala. 56, 99 So.2d 694 (1957).

    Judicial notice of records of prior cases:

    Butler v. Olshan, 191 So. 2d 7 – Ala: Supreme Court 1966

    Also

    Ex parte Cade, 521 So. 2d 85 – Ala: Supreme Court 1987
    But the pleading needs to refer to the case in question.

    As our Supreme Court observed in Butler v. Olshan, 280 Ala. 181, 191 So.2d 7 (1966), an appellate court may take judicial notice of its own records in another proceeding if the following three conditions are met:

    “First, the pleading in the instant case must refer to the other proceeding; second, the other proceeding must be of record in the trial court whose decree or judgment is the basis of the instant appeal; and third, the prior proceeding must be of record in the [appellate] court in another appeal 88*88 [there] or be set out in the instant record.” [Emphasis added.]

    Ex parte Ryals, 773 So. 2d 1011 – Ala: Supreme Court 2000

    An appellate court can consider a fact to support or to undermine a summary judgment only to the extent that the record on appeal contains materials from the record before the trial court evidencing that fact at the time of submission of the motion for summary judgment. Dynasty Corp. v. Alpha Resins Corp., 577 So.2d 1278 (Ala.1991). Likewise, the appellate court can consider an argument against the validity of a summary judgment only to the extent that the record on appeal contains material from the trial court record presenting that argument to the trial court before or at the time of submission of the motion for summary judgment. Andrews v. Merritt Oil Co., 612 So.2d 409 (Ala.1992). On the other hand, an appellate court can affirm a summary judgment on any valid argument, regardless of whether the argument was presented to, considered by, or even rejected by the trial court. Ex parte Wiginton, 743 So.2d 1071 (Ala.1999), and Smith v. Equifax Services, Inc., 537 So.2d 463 (Ala.1988).

    So did the original court proceeding address the nature of President Obama’s birth? I’d say so. So can the appellate court take judicial notice of such facts that support this? I am not a lawyer…

    Roberson v. City of Montgomery, 233 So. 2d 69 – Ala: Supreme Court 1970

    The Alabama League of Municipalities candidly admits that the League has been concerned with the interpretation of our statutes on the question of the right of a city to zone extraterritorially and has attempted to secure passage of clarifying legislation by the Alabama Legislature. We take judicial notice of the Alabama House Journal which shows that a bill was introduced at the Regular Session of the Alabama Legislature in 1969 by then Representative Charles Wright (now a Judge on the Court of Civil Appeals) which would have amended Title 37, 772, to authorize cities to zone within its police jurisdiction. If cities desire to zone outside their city limits it will be necessary to have such authority come from the Legislature.

  37. avatar
    donna May 16, 2013 at 2:37 pm #

    CarlOrcas: As to why Zullo has not attended an academy in all the time he has lived in Arizona……I have no idea.

    does it involve psychological testing and polygraphs?

  38. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 16, 2013 at 2:49 pm #

    donna:
    CarlOrcas: As to why Zullo has not attended an academy in all the time he has lived in Arizona……I have no idea.

    does it involve psychological testing and polygraphs?

    Depends on whether there is a sponsoring agency. Both are part of the pre-employment screening for most departments for both paid and reserve officers.

    It’s been a long time since I dealt with that stuff but I believe there are several POST certified academies operating at community colleges that one can attend on their own time and dime. Some smaller departments will accept that training if the person gets a POST certificate.

    Phoenix runs the regional academy at South Mountain. Only candidates who have passed all pre-employment stuff attend it and they are paid for by their sponsoring agency.

    I also have a recollection (could be wrong) that reserve deputies cannot serve on posses.

  39. avatar
    gorefan May 16, 2013 at 3:00 pm #

    nbc: EX PARTE BAKER 459 So.2d 873 (1984)

    Right, I shouldn’t have used the term “judicial notice”. I meant only new evidence like Zullo’s affidavit.

    “The exhibits Tinney attached to his answer in response to the mandamus petition were not presented to the trial court. It is well settled that, “in a mandamus proceeding, this Court will not consider evidence not presented to the trial court.” Ex parte Cincinnati Ins. Co., 51 So. 3d 298, 310 (Ala. 2010). See Ex parte Ford Motor Credit Co., 772 So. 2d 437, 442 (Ala. 2000)(“‘On review by mandamus, we must look at only those facts before the trial court.” (quoting Ex parte Baker, 459 So. 2d 873, 876 (Ala. 1984))). “[T]his Court is bound by the [materials before it], and it cannot consider a statement or evidence in a party’s brief that was not before the trial court.” Ex parte Pike Fabrication, 859 So. 2d at 1091. ” from Ex Parte East Alabama Medical Center (2013)

  40. avatar
    alg May 16, 2013 at 3:34 pm #

    Pure speculation on my part, but I believe the reason ADP submitted their amicus wasn’t because they expected to influence the Court’s decision – a dismissal of the appeal is a foregone conclusion – but rather because wanted the Alabama Justices to have information that helps them avoid making stupid extra-judicial commentary that gives unintended support to birther memes.

    Folks will recall, Justice Moore in 2010 remarking that he hadn’t seen any evidence affirming Obama was born in Hawaii. Then last year, in a concurring opinion on a matter associated with this case, Justice Parker suggested there was evidence in the record that called into question Obama’s natural born credentials.

    Certainly, if the Justices actually read the ADP amicus and examine its exhibits they will be reluctant to repeat the same drivel they did before. So even if they can’t consider the evidence in the amicus, perhaps they will act more behaved and circumspect when they dismiss the case.

  41. avatar
    MattR May 16, 2013 at 4:15 pm #

    Doc – I think you have an extra word at the end of this article’s title.

  42. avatar
    nbc May 16, 2013 at 4:30 pm #

    gorefan: Right, I shouldn’t have used the term “judicial notice”. I meant only new evidence like Zullo’s affidavit.

    The Supreme Court certainly cannot take judicial notice of the words of private citizen Zullo. But it could take judicial notice of the newspaper articles that show Obama’s birth as well as various other documents provided. Public records are self authenticating and I believe could survive a motion to strike.

    Yes, one cannot introduce new claims&materials but I believe that since the birth certificate was mentioned, the ADP can ask the judges to take judicial notice of relevant information.

    We shall see… As I said IANAL

  43. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund May 16, 2013 at 4:41 pm #

    nbc: The Supreme Court certainly cannot take judicial notice of the words of private citizen Zullo. But it could take judicial notice of the newspaper articles that show Obama’s birth as well as various other documents provided. Public records are self authenticating and I believe could survive a motion to strike.

    Yes, one cannot introduce new claims&materials but I believe that since the birth certificate was mentioned, the ADP can ask the judges to take judicial notice of relevant information.

    In fact, this isn’t even new material -with the possible exception of the verification to Bennett- because it was all previously brought forth in Zullo’s original affidavit. Not that it matters – the court will dismiss before it ever gets to looking at birth records.

  44. avatar
    john May 16, 2013 at 4:52 pm #

    “This is just more noise, and submitting it with the McInnish appeal somehow makes it look like something “official.”

    I think one of Klayman’s intent is to bolster his argument that by Sheriff Arpaio and Cold Case Posse cooperating in this case, does show that they an “Official Source”. If that is so, then SOS Chapman was negiligent because she ignored indication of fraud from an “official Source”. Further, Sheriff Arpaio is just not some no-name sheriff, Arpaio is nationally known. It is highly highly unlikely SOS Chapman did not or does not know who Sheriff Arpaio is. In ensense, that gives more argument that SOS Chapman ignored fraud from an “official source.”

    Klayman further asserts that if the court is going to consider the Amicis Brief from the ADP, that due process fairness requires them to consider Zullo’s brief as well.

    As we has seen from past elections, SOS does have the power to investigate and remove candidates from the ballot who are no eligible. Thus, this makes SOS Chapman even more negligent.

    Finally, SOS Chapman was asked repeatedly to vet Obama based on Arpaio’s investigation and to uphold her oath. SOS Chapman did absolutely nothing. Even AZ SOS Bennett made an inquiry that further defeats SOS Chapman.

  45. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 16, 2013 at 5:43 pm #

    Did Arpaio’s office ever notify Chapman of any official finding by his office? No. Has Arpaio’s office ever issued an official report (I don’t mean his volunteer charitable organization, but the real MSCO)? Has Arpaio ever sought an indictment, made an arrest, filed charges or anything, you know “official?” No.

    john: I think one of Klayman’s intent is to bolster his argument that by Sheriff Arpaio and Cold Case Posse cooperating in this case, does show that they an “Official Source”. If that is so, then SOS Chapman was negiligent because she ignored indication of fraud from an “official Source”. Further, Sheriff Arpaio is just not some no-name sheriff, Arpaio is nationally known. It is highly highly unlikely SOS Chapman did not or does not know who Sheriff Arpaio is. In ensense, that gives more argument that SOS Chapman ignored fraud from an “official source.”

  46. avatar
    nbc May 16, 2013 at 5:51 pm #

    If Klayman wants to bolster the case, why did he not ask Sheriff Arpaio to submit the affidavit rather than private citizen Mike Zullo? And no, there is no such issue as fairness when it comes to introduction of new material. Klayman should know better than that. Even Orly appreciates this and that means quite a bit…

    As we has seen from past elections, SOS does have the power to investigate and remove candidates from the ballot who are no eligible. Thus, this makes SOS Chapman even more negligent.

    Nope, for it to be negligent there has to be a duty and there is none. Yes Bennett did ask for further information. If Chapman had done so, she would, again have been correct in not rejecting President Obama…

    Sorry John, this is, as you have admitted to yourself, another legal dead end.

  47. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 16, 2013 at 6:25 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Did Arpaio’s office ever notify Chapman of any official finding by his office? No. Has Arpaio’s office ever issued an official report (I don’t mean his volunteer charitable organization, but the real MSCO)? Has Arpaio ever sought an indictment, made an arrest, filed charges or anything, you know “official?” No.

    And……he never will…….ever!

  48. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 16, 2013 at 6:44 pm #

    And the inclusion of the Zullo affidavit has the exact opposite intention, to get one or more justices to make stupid extra-judicial commentary in support of birther memes.

    alg: Pure speculation on my part, but I believe the reason ADP submitted their amicus wasn’t because they expected to influence the Court’s decision – a dismissal of the appeal is a foregone conclusion – but rather because wanted the Alabama Justices to have information that helps them avoid making stupid extra-judicial commentary that gives unintended support to birther memes.

  49. avatar
    Butterfly Bilderberg May 16, 2013 at 7:26 pm #

    Hermitian:
    The expanded Zullo affidavit was included to refute these birth related documents given the possibility that the Alabama Supreme Court might take judicial notice of said documents.

    But the problem is, the affidavit is nothing but a word salad of inadmissible hearsay, so it refutes exactly … nothing.

  50. avatar
    Graham Shevlin May 16, 2013 at 7:44 pm #

    The reason why Mike Zullo is submitting the affidavit is that Sheriff Arpaio is far too smart to get involved with a case that he (along with anybody not deeply impacted by conspiracy theory thinking) knows damn well is a waste of time because (a) it is moot, and (b) the appeal is going to be dismissed since it is not about evidence, it is about wheteher the SoS has an obligation under then-current state law to verify the eligibility of a presidential candidate.
    Note that when Arpaio was questioned last year about his views on whether the POTUS was a natural-born citizen, he carefully avoided answering directly, merely stating that somebody else “needed to look into it”. He wants nothing to do with any dog-and-pony show over the eligibility of the POTUS now that the 2012 election cycle is over. In that respect he is a lot smarter than Zullo, but then he has a reasonably well-paid day job to execute, and Zullo seems to be stuck on the Birther Grifter Train to Nowhere.

  51. avatar
    Northland10 May 16, 2013 at 10:10 pm #

    john:

    I think…

    I do not think that means what you think it means.

  52. avatar
    ASK Esq May 16, 2013 at 11:15 pm #

    The Magic M: Wouldn’t that warrant criminal prosecution for perjury? Attesting to “facts” from “personal knowledge” that obviously are false (and/or not personal knowledge) under penalty of perjury?
    What would it take for a DA to take up such a case?

    Stealing Corsi’s intellectual property would be petty theft at best.

  53. avatar
    misha marinsky May 16, 2013 at 11:37 pm #

    Hermitian: The new expanded Zullo affidavit was filed as Exhibit 1

    Here’s the truth about Orly Taitz’ name: http://spreadingtaitz.tumblr.com/

  54. avatar
    misha marinsky May 16, 2013 at 11:45 pm #

    ASK Esq: Stealing Corsi’s intellectual property would be petty theft at best.

    ‘Corsi’ and ‘intellectual’ are mutually exclusive.

  55. avatar
    J.D. Sue May 17, 2013 at 12:36 am #

    I think it’s interesting that paragraphs 42-44 state that the posse more recently retained an independent expert who issued a 40 page report, yet the affidavit does not name the “expert” nor quote anything substantive from the report. (It only quotes some pretty unprofessional hyperbole).

  56. avatar
    Rickey May 17, 2013 at 1:31 am #

    john:

    I think one of Klayman’s intent is to bolster his argument that by Sheriff Arpaio and Cold Case Posse cooperating in this case, does show that they an “Official Source”.If that is so, then SOS Chapman was negiligent because she ignored indication of fraud from an “official Source”.Further, Sheriff Arpaio is just not some no-name sheriff, Arpaio is nationally known.It is highly highly unlikely SOS Chapman did not or does not know who Sheriff Arpaio is.In ensense, that gives more argument that SOS Chapman ignored fraud from an “official source.”

    Arpaio’s band of Junior G-Men has no standing to make an official report of a traffic violation to the State of Alabama.

    Besides, Klayman is prohibited from making a legal argument on appeal which he did not make in the lower court proceedings.

  57. avatar
    nbc May 17, 2013 at 1:56 am #

    J.D. Sue: I think it’s interesting that paragraphs 42-44 state that the posse more recently retained an independent expert who issued a 40 page report, yet the affidavit does not name the “expert” nor quote anything substantive from the report. (It only quotes some pretty unprofessional hyperbole).

    Smokescreen… Something to keep those who donate their money happy…

  58. avatar
    bovril May 17, 2013 at 3:56 am #

    J.D. Sue: I think it’s interesting that paragraphs 42-44 state that the posse more recently retained an independent expert who issued a 40 page report, yet the affidavit does not name the “expert” nor quote anything substantive from the report. (It only quotes some pretty unprofessional hyperbole).

    I believe I mentioned their rationale (not rational admittedly…)… 8-)

    Para 42-45. Ya-boo sux to youse, we got us a reel egspurt with mad skillz and gave uz a 40 page rep[ort that sez what we said abuve. SO THERE !!! (ps itz seekrit)

    Para 45-54. HAHA we showed the Obots itz a reel forgeryification they can’t keep laffing at uz and any way the darkie iz really a fake an probly a ‘mexikanz

    Para 55-57. HAHA we showed them OBOTS AGIN ’cause we checked and itz a PDF so itz not a reel thing…SO THER and Hawai’i broke some rulez so ther!!

  59. avatar
    The Magic M May 17, 2013 at 4:04 am #

    nbc: Even Orly appreciates this and that means quite a bit…

    It seems that as soon as it’s about birther infighting, Orly magically loses her “get everything wrong” ability and is actually able to grasp what a case is about (contrary to her own where she brings witnesses to hearings about a motion to dismiss or suchlike).
    Does that mean she still has some working brain cells left or is her delusion just an act and she just broke character? I honestly don’t know.

  60. avatar
    The Magic M May 17, 2013 at 4:11 am #

    john: Further, Sheriff Arpaio is just not some no-name sheriff, Arpaio is nationally known. It is highly highly unlikely SOS Chapman did not or does not know who Sheriff Arpaio is. In ensense, that gives more argument that SOS Chapman ignored fraud from an “official source.”

    A sheriff’s press conference is not an “official source”. If he actually filed criminal charges, that might be different. It doesn’t matter if he’s the best-known sheriff in the world.

    It’s also interesting how you can claim that the WH publishing a copy of the BC and the Hawaiian DOH attesting to its veracity somehow aren’t official sources (as in “his BC was never officially verified”), yet some shurf holding a presser with vague allegations (“we believe fraud may have been committed”) is.

  61. avatar
    Thinker May 17, 2013 at 7:08 am #

    Isn’t that interesting. Orly Taitz suddenly understanding that new evidence cannot be brought in an appeal. And just a few days after she posted the explanation of why Klayman can’t use new evidence in his appeal, the DC Court of Appeals rejected Taitz’s latest attempt to revive her Astrue FOIA lawsuit appeal because…wait for it…she was trying to use evidence in her appeal that was not presented at the trial court level.

    This kind of dissonance is not all that unusual in people with certain personality disorders.

    The Magic M: It seems that as soon as it’s about birther infighting, Orly magically loses her “get everything wrong” ability and is actually able to grasp what a case is about (contrary to her own where she brings witnesses to hearings about a motion to dismiss or suchlike).
    Does that mean she still has some working brain cells left or is her delusion just an act and she just broke character? I honestly don’t know.

  62. avatar
    Butterfly Bilderberg May 17, 2013 at 8:58 am #

    J.D. Sue:
    I think it’s interesting that paragraphs 42-44 state that the posse more recently retained an independent expert who issued a 40 page report, yet the affidavit does not name the “expert” nor quote anything substantive from the report.(It only quotes some pretty unprofessional hyperbole).

    I find it interesting that Supreme Fleet Commander Zullo claims this unnamed forensic laboratory is “certified” to … what? … The implication is that it is pre-qualified to provide expert witness testimony in any proceeding the federal courts.

    No such certification exists.

    This bears repeating: There is no “federal certification” of experts. An expert witness has to be determined qualified — after a Daubert/Kumho Tire challenge — in each and every legal proceeding. The fact that a witness has testified in other cases does not guarantee he or she will be qualified as an expert in the next case.

    Another fabrication by the pretend investigator.

  63. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 17, 2013 at 9:21 am #

    In the advertising world, they call it “puffery.”

    Butterfly Bilderberg: I find it interesting that Supreme Fleet Commander Zullo claims this unnamed forensic laboratory is “certified” to … what? … The implication is that it is pre-qualified to provide expert witness testimony in any proceeding the federal courts.

  64. avatar
    bamalaw May 17, 2013 at 9:39 am #

    alg:
    Pure speculation on my part, but I believe the reason ADP submitted their amicus wasn’t because they expected to influence the Court’s decision – a dismissal of the appeal is a foregone conclusion – but rather because wanted the Alabama Justices to have information that helps them avoid making stupid extra-judicial commentary that gives unintended support to birther memes.

    Folks will recall, Justice Moore in 2010 remarking that he hadn’t seen any evidence affirming Obama was born in Hawaii.Then last year, in a concurring opinion on a matter associated with this case, Justice Parker suggested there was evidence in the record that called into question Obama’s natural born credentials.

    Certainly, if the Justices actually read the ADP amicus and examine its exhibits they will be reluctant to repeat the same drivel they did before.So even if they can’t consider the evidence in the amicus, perhaps they will act more behaved and circumspect when they dismiss the case.

    We have a winner!

  65. avatar
    Kiwiwriter May 17, 2013 at 1:42 pm #

    My view of this pleading:

    As the great Felix Unger said in an episode of “The Odd Couple:”

    “I don’t have the time to unravel your logic!”

  66. avatar
    Hermitian May 17, 2013 at 4:26 pm #

    bamalaw: alg:
    Pure speculation on my part, but I believe the reason ADP submitted their amicus wasn’t because they expected to influence the Court’s decision – a dismissal of the appeal is a foregone conclusion – but rather because wanted the Alabama Justices to have information that helps them avoid making stupid extra-judicial commentary that gives unintended support to birther memes.
    Folks will recall, Justice Moore in 2010 remarking that he hadn’t seen any evidence affirming Obama was born in Hawaii.Then last year, in a concurring opinion on a matter associated with this case, Justice Parker suggested there was evidence in the record that called into question Obama’s natural born credentials.
    Certainly, if the Justices actually read the ADP amicus and examine its exhibits they will be reluctant to repeat the same drivel they did before.So even if they can’t consider the evidence in the amicus, perhaps they will act more behaved and circumspect when they dismiss the case.

    We have a winner!

    You must not be aware of the other Amicus CURIAE brief namely

    “BRIEF OF AMICUS CURIAE LUCAS DANIEL SMITH, PRO SE, IN SUPPORT OF APPELLANTS. HUGH McINNISH, et al. vs BETH CHAPMAN, in her capacity as Secretary of State. SUPREME COURT OF ALABAMA. Case No. 1120465″

    proffered in this same case which provides the genuine Kenyan Certificate of Birth of Barack Obama II personally obtained from the Coast Provence General Hospital by Lucas Smith.

    So obviously if your wild conjecture for the motive of the ADP’s amicus is correct (which it isn’t) then the court will certainly prefer Obama’s Kenyan BC over the ADP furnished weird copy of the purported Obama LFCOLB.

    The foot print nails it !!!

  67. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 17, 2013 at 6:35 pm #

    Hermitian: The foot print nails it !!!

    Are you serious? Exactly how does it do that?

  68. avatar
    dunstvangeet May 17, 2013 at 6:44 pm #

    Hermitian…

    Even if it was a Kenyan Birth Certificate (it’s not), in order for it to be admitted into court, you’d have to go to either the State Department, or the Kenyan Embassy/Consulate, and have them authenticate it (basically say that the signatures were made by this person and this is their person). That is required under the Federal Rules of Evidence (Read FRE 902 pertaining to International Records Under Seal).

    And even then, I could easily impeach it by asking Lucas Smith how many people he had to bribe in order to obtain it…

  69. avatar
    Hermitian May 17, 2013 at 7:27 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Hermitian: The foot print nails it !!!
    Are you serious? Exactly how does it do that?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingerprint#Footprints

    “Footprints

    “Friction ridge skin present on the soles of the feet and toes (plantar surfaces) is as unique in its ridge detail as are the fingers and palms (palmar surfaces). When recovered at crime scenes or on items of evidence, sole and toe impressions can be used in the same manner as finger and palm prints to effect identifications. Footprint (toe and sole friction ridge skin) evidence has been admitted in courts in the United States since 1934.[12]

    “The footprints of infants, along with the thumb or index finger prints of mothers, are still commonly recorded in hospitals to assist in verifying the identity of infants. Often, the only identifiable ridge detail that can be seen on a baby’s foot is from the large toe or adjacent to the large toe.

    “It is not uncommon for military records of flight personnel to include bare foot inked impressions. Friction ridge skin protected inside flight boots tends to survive the trauma of a plane crash (and accompanying fire) better than fingers. Even though the US Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory (AFDIL), as of 2010, stored refrigerated DNA samples from all active duty and reserve personnel, almost all casualty identifications are effected using fingerprints from military ID card records (live scan fingerprints are recorded at the time such cards are issued). When friction ridge skin is not available from military personnel’s remains, DNA and dental records are used to confirm identity.”

    Doofus !!!

  70. avatar
    Hermitian May 17, 2013 at 7:51 pm #

    dunstvangeet: Hermitian…
    Even if it was a Kenyan Birth Certificate (it’s not), in order for it to be admitted into court, you’d have to go to either the State Department, or the Kenyan Embassy/Consulate, and have them authenticate it (basically say that the signatures were made by this person and this is their person). That is required under the Federal Rules of Evidence (Read FRE 902 pertaining to International Records Under Seal).
    And even then, I could easily impeach it by asking Lucas Smith how many people he had to bribe in order to obtain it…

    “Kitau Obama eligibility letter revisited

    “By Coach Collins, on May 12th, 2013

    “by George Spelvin

    “A letter allegedly written by Kitau, a science teacher at a Kenyan primary school, is being revisited as Barack Obama eligibility lawsuits make their way through court dockets in both Alabama and Florida. Born one month after Obama in the same Mombassa hospital, Kitau says this of the Obama, Mombassa birth certificate obtained by Lucas Daniel Smith: “I compared my birth certificate to the one that has been put online by Taitz (Atty. Orly Taitz) and mine is EXACTLY THE SAME.” Kitau goes on to state that being a science teacher makes for natural skepticism, but “I went to an official registrar today and pulled up the picture on the web. They magnified it and determined it to be authentic.” (1)

    The Kitau letter has been challenged and even debunked as has the certificate obtained by Smith, but both documents need to undergo further investigation. The name of the registrar, the format, and the type are identical in the Obama Mombasa birth certificate document and the Kitau birth certificate says the internet letter. Lucas Daniel Smith has just put up 16 mm footage showing a “birth in Barack Obama’s Kenya!” By scrolling down on his link you can view pictures he obtained of the British and Kenyan passports of Barack Obama, Sr. http://www.wasobamaborninkenya.com/blog/

    A short time ago, Orly Taitz published an urgent request on her website, stating: “Very important. I need verification that E. F. Lavender was British colonial registrar in Mombasa (sic) Kenya in l961.” Someone contacted the Taitz site, stating that she was Kiki Lavendar and claiming that “my father is Eric Lavendar, who was working in Kenya during this time period.” The Lavendar (e) name has undergone challenges regarding authenticity of the Mombassa birth registrar. Someone else posting on the Taitz site wrote that E. F. Lavender was “a clerk with the Great Greta Coal Company before he was a registrar for the Republic of Kenya.” E.F. Lavender was listed as having been a witness to the formal “winding up” of that same coal company.

    SOURCES: (1) http://www.thepowerhour.com/news4/obama_kenyan_birth_certificate.htm

    (2) http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/?p=3544

    You Obots are just pathetic !

    Make that both lazy and pathetic !

  71. avatar
    Hermitian May 17, 2013 at 8:04 pm #

    Lucas Smith has provided his sworn affidavit (as to the authenticity of his Obama Kenyan Certificate of Birth) to at least two courts.

    Additionally, he has also provided his sworn affidavit to every member of congress. He did this under penalty of perjury and knowing that it is a felony to provide false testimony to Congress.

  72. avatar
    J.D. Sue May 17, 2013 at 8:15 pm #

    Hermitian: proffered in this same case which provides the genuine Kenyan Certificate of Birth of Barack Obama II personally obtained from the Coast Provence General Hospital by Lucas Smith.

    —-

    dunstvangeet: And even then, I could easily impeach it by asking Lucas Smith how many people he had to bribe in order to obtain it…

    —-

    If the birthers want to see real impeachment, they should just put Lucas Smith on a witness stand! Isn’t he a convicted forger?

  73. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 18, 2013 at 6:36 am #

    Hermitian’s reference refers to the identification of adults from adult footprints, not adults from infant footprints.

    However, contrary to what has been said in comments on this blog (years ago), it appears that it is possible to identify an adult by infant footprints. See:

    https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/Abstract.aspx?id=241258

    That said, I don’t think that the footprints on the Smith birth certificate contain adequate clarity for anything.

    Hermitian: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingerprint#Footprints

    “Footprints

    “Friction ridge skin present on the soles of the feet and toes (plantar surfaces) is as unique in its ridge detail as are the fingers and palms (palmar surfaces). When recovered at crime scenes or on items of evidence, sole and toe impressions can be used in the same manner as finger and palm prints to effect identifications. Footprint (toe and sole friction ridge skin) evidence has been admitted in courts in the United States since 1934.[12]

    “The footprints of infants, along with the thumb or index finger prints of mothers, are still commonly recorded in hospitals to assist in verifying the identity of infants. Often, the only identifiable ridge detail that can be seen on a baby’s foot is from the large toe or adjacent to the large toe.

    “It is not uncommon for military records of flight personnel to include bare foot inked impressions. Friction ridge skin protected inside flight boots tends to survive the trauma of a plane crash (and accompanying fire) better than fingers. Even though the US Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory (AFDIL), as of 2010, stored refrigerated DNA samples from all active duty and reserve personnel, almost all casualty identifications are effected using fingerprints from military ID card records (live scan fingerprints are recorded at the time such cards are issued). When friction ridge skin is not available from military personnel’s remains, DNA and dental records are used to confirm identity.”

    Doofus !!!

  74. avatar
    Hermitian May 18, 2013 at 7:45 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Hermitian’s reference refers to the identification of adults from adult footprints, not adults from infant footprints.
    However, contrary to what has been said in comments on this blog (years ago), it appears that it is possible to identify an adult by infant footprints. See:
    https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/Abstract.aspx?id=241258

    Oh Goody! This forensic case is all about the comparison of an infant footprint from a birth certificate to the footprint of the adult for purpose of establishing U.S. citizenship.

    I particularly like the method statement:

    ” This area was photographically enlarged and compared to samples of the adult’s footprints,”

    Brilliant ! Just brilliant !

  75. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 18, 2013 at 8:58 am #

    Hermitian: Doofus !!!

    Good morning Hermitian,

    I am well aware of the value of comparing friction ridge minutiae from fingers and feet to establish identity.

    But for that to occur you, first, need a good clear print with adequate friction ridge detail to provide sufficient points of comparison. The big black blob on Mr. Smith’s document doesn’t contain any detail that I can perceive in looking at numerous views of it on the internet. Your nail is getting loose.

    Now, of course, there could be an original still sitting in the hospital but given Mr. Smith’s “Fantastic Voyage” story about how he procured the copy he presented what do we think the chances of finding it are? Add to that Mr. Smith’s regrettable history as a forger and I think your nail has just gotten real loose.

    I’ll leave it to the lawyers to explain just how this document could ever be allowed into evidence in an American court……since that is where you want to go with this, right?

    And, finally, there is the issue of just how you would go about getting a current print of Mr. Obama’s right foot to which the comparison would be made. How do you see that happening? Hmmm??

    Watch where you step…..there’s a nail on the floor.

  76. avatar
    Hermitian May 18, 2013 at 9:28 am #

    CarlOrcas: And, finally, there is the issue of just how you would go about getting a current print of Mr. Obama’s right foot to which the comparison would be made. How do you see that happening? Hmmm??

    Law enforcement obtains the prints and DNA from perps all the time.

  77. avatar
    Arthur May 18, 2013 at 10:00 am #

    Mr. Zullo was interviewed on 5/17 by the prolixious monologuer and specious God-slobberer Carl Gallups. They had a grand time denouncing Orly Taitz.

    Gallups said that Taitz is “leveling charges against the affidavit, against you [Zullo], against Arapio; it’s as if her law degree apparently was gotten off the back of a match box, or she’s an Obamabot operative.”

    Zullo agreed, saying that Orly has been a pain in their side for the last 18 months and avows that Orly’s condemnation of his affadavit is “disinformation” that seems “very Obotish.” Zullo continues, “I am not the one who racked up twenty losing lawsuits, I’m not the one sanctioned by a judge; I’m not the one reprimanded by a judge numerous time in different venues . . . she’s out there, beating up on us and my only suggestion would be to polish up your skills and go at it, but leave me alone.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG6N1r06poA&feature=player_embedded#!

    The Orly-bashing begins @ 4:40.

  78. avatar
    Reality Check May 18, 2013 at 10:20 am #

    No, Mike Zullo. You are the one who wasted taxpayer money on boondoggles to Hawaii and essentially got thrown out of the state for conducting your stupid “investigation”. You are the one who is chicken to go on any show other than Carl Gallups Freaky Friday show where he slobbers while calling you “Lt.”. You are the one who hasn’t convinced a single congressman or law enforcement agency to take your nonsense seriously.

    The end of the interview was very telling. Gallups and Zullo began speculating that their greatest fear might come true and that President Obama might actually serve out his second term. They conclude that is a very remote possibility of course but it is fascinating that they would bring it up after all the talk that criminal charges would be coming that they have engaged in for months.

    Arthur: Zullo continues, “I am not the one who racked up twenty losing lawsuits, I’m not the one sanctioned by a judge; I’m not the one reprimanded by a judge numerous time in different venues . . . she’s out there, beating up on us and my only suggestion would be to polish up your skills and go at it, but leave me alone.”

  79. avatar
    Thinker May 18, 2013 at 10:28 am #

    Hermi: You should use the expertise that you drew on for your “forgery of a forgery” affidavit and write an affidavit on how “the footprints nails it.” Send it to Orly and see if she will submit it in her Mississippi case. See if you can work in the phrase, “hotter, hornier, wetter, tighter.” I’m sure Orly would be thrilled.

  80. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 18, 2013 at 10:44 am #

    Reality Check: Gallups and Zullo began speculating that their greatest fear might come true and that President Obama might actually serve out his second term. They conclude that is a very remote possibility of course but it is fascinating that they would bring it up after all the talk that criminal charges would be coming that they have engaged in for months.

    What I found interesting is that when asked what he would do with all the information he has gathered if nothing happens Zullo said that because of the “corporation” the “work product” belonged to him and he could do whatever he wanted to with it.

    So much that “official law enforcement investigation” baloney.

  81. avatar
    Arthur May 18, 2013 at 12:14 pm #

    CarlOrcas: What I found interesting is that when asked what he would do with all the information he has gathered if nothing happens Zullo said that because of the “corporation” the “work product” belonged to him and he could do whatever he wanted to with it.

    Shortly after the section you cite, Gallups allowed that he “sometimes gets a little fear in my heart, like, ‘Gosh, what if everything just falls apart? It’s going to make me look like I’ve been lying for a year . . .’”

    Gallups, you HAVE been lying for a year, but as a propagandist for Arpaio, lying comes so easily to you that you’ve lost the ability to discern truth from illusion.

  82. avatar
    JD Reed May 18, 2013 at 12:41 pm #

    Speaking of Zullo …
    Many will recall that a few months ago that he swore in an affidavit that Barack Obama issued an executive order sealing his personal records. Anyone with good Internet search skills can find the text of Obama’s executive order and see not only that does it not refer to any personal redords, but cites the Presidential Records Act to define the records his executive order covers. And as well, it tracks almost verbatim — more than 95 percent identical in language — an executive order issued by one Ronald Reagan 20 years earlier. The substance is identical.
    Now in an interview with the Post & Email, Zullo hypes the Vatellist notion — well, the birthers version of the Vatellist notion — of natrual born citizenship. In it he makes a laughable error that exposes his ignorance of early American history.
    To wit:
    “DET. ZULLO: I want to be clear: I agree with the argument on “natural born citizen.” We have a document from Benjamin Franklin that makes it very clear that Vattel’s Law of Nations was used by the CONTINENTAL CONGRESS in the drafting of the Constitution, and that’s where “natural born Citizen” came from. ”
    (capitalization added)
    Now someone who thinks the Continental Congress drafted the Constitution has disqualified himself as any kind of auhority on the founding era. Any competent student of history knows that the specially-created Constitutional Convention drafted the constitution. The Congress operating under the Articles of Confederation was meeting at the same time, but was definitely not drafting a new charter of government.

  83. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 18, 2013 at 4:24 pm #

    Nothing but the best for my readers.

    Hermitian: Oh Goody! This forensic case is all about the comparison of an infant footprint from a birth certificate to the footprint of the adult for purpose of establishing U.S. citizenship.

    I particularly like the method statement:

    ” This area was photographically enlarged and compared to samples of the adult’s footprints,”

    Brilliant ! Just brilliant !

  84. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 18, 2013 at 4:32 pm #

    I don’t think that counts as testimony to Congress. I’m surprised that you do.

    I am not a lawyer, but I don’t think that Smith could be charged with perjury if he lied in the documents you mentioned. The McInnish appeal will be decided on the law, and not any evidence from the parties.

    Hermitian: Additionally, he has also provided his sworn affidavit to every member of congress. He did this under penalty of perjury and knowing that it is a felony to provide false testimony to Congress.

  85. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 18, 2013 at 4:36 pm #

    I conclusively debunked the “Bomford” birth certificate in 2009. It was an Obot attempt to make the birthers look stupid. Some are too stupid to realize that they have been punked.

    Hermitian: A short time ago, Orly Taitz published an urgent request on her website, stating: “Very important. I need verification that E. F. Lavender was British colonial registrar in Mombasa (sic) Kenya in l961.” Someone contacted the Taitz site, stating that she was Kiki Lavendar and claiming that “my father is Eric Lavendar, who was working in Kenya during this time period.” The Lavendar (e) name has undergone challenges regarding authenticity of the Mombassa birth registrar. Someone else posting on the Taitz site wrote that E. F. Lavender was “a clerk with the Great Greta Coal Company before he was a registrar for the Republic of Kenya.” E.F. Lavender was listed as having been a witness to the formal “winding up” of that same coal company.

    SOURCES: (1) http://www.thepowerhour.com/news4/obama_kenyan_birth_certificate.htm

    (2) http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/?p=3544

    You Obots are just pathetic !

    Make that both lazy and pathetic !

  86. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 18, 2013 at 4:41 pm #

    Hermitian: Law enforcement obtains the prints and DNA from perps all the time.

    The President is now a “perp”? Please explain.

    Police obtain footprints “all the time”? Please provide some support for that absurd claim.

    DNA? What does it have to do with “nailing” the President with Lucas Smith’s Kenya birth certificate?

  87. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 18, 2013 at 4:46 pm #

    Hermitian: He did this under penalty of perjury and knowing that it is a felony to provide false testimony to Congress.

    Sending crazy crap to members of Congress doesn’t count as false testimony because……well, it’s not testimony.

  88. avatar
    gorefan May 18, 2013 at 4:47 pm #

    CarlOrcas: What I found interesting is that when asked what he would do with all the information he has gathered if nothing happens Zullo said that because of the “corporation” the “work product” belonged to him and he could do whatever he wanted to with it.

    When asked if he would tell-all after President Obama finishes his second term, Zullo says he would feel obligated to tell-all, but,

    “…it wouldn’t be anything under the colors of the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office. The unique situation that we are in here is, we’re, for corporate reasons, a corporation. And the work product is mine, and the investigative time has been mine, so I would have that ability.”

    With most corporations doesn’t the work you do for them belong to them? Plus with so much of the CCP’s investigation coming from other sources (Orly, Butterdezillion, WND, Susan Daniels. etc.) what kind of claim can Zullo make on it? There is very little real original work from the CCP investigation.

  89. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 18, 2013 at 4:51 pm #

    Zullo likes to switch roles to his advantage, in one case a very official sheriff’s posse member and in the other a private volunteer.

    Most of the “work” was actually cribbed from Jerome Corsi, and some was supplied by Mara Zebest.

    But if he writes a book, it’s no skin off my nose. It will probably sell fewer copies than his last joint effort with Corsi.

    gorefan: With most corporations doesn’t the work you do for them belong to them? Plus with so much of the CCP’s investigation coming from other sources (Orly, Butterdezillion, WND, Susan Daniels. etc.) what kind of claim can Zullo make on it? There is very little real original work from the CCP investigation.

  90. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 18, 2013 at 5:02 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: It will probably sell fewer copies than his last joint effort with Corsi.

    Is there any way to tell how many copies a book on Amazon has sold?

    Inquiring minds would love to know!!

  91. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 18, 2013 at 5:05 pm #

    gorefan: When asked if he would tell-all after President Obama finishes his second term, Zullo says he would feel obligated to tell-all, but,

    “…it wouldn’t be anything under the colors of the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office.The unique situation that we are in here is, we’re, for corporate reasons, a corporation.And the work product is mine, and the investigative time has been mine, so I would have that ability.”

    With most corporations doesn’t the work you do for them belong to them?Plus with so much of the CCP’s investigation coming from other sources (Orly, Butterdezillion, WND, Susan Daniels. etc.) what kind of claim can Zullo make on it?There is very little real original work from the CCP investigation.

    Yes, the corporation owns the work product. In this case it is a LLC and Zullo is one of the owners/incorporators so that concern may be moot.

    As far as the sources of what he/the posse has wouldn’t it be wonderful if he did write a book and all the sources sued him? Do we have a member of the bar willing to handle it pro bono just for the fun of it??? Think about deposing all the players in this little drama!

  92. avatar
    gorefan May 18, 2013 at 5:06 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: It will probably sell fewer copies than his last joint effort with Corsi.

    Especially as it doesn’t appear that he’s going to write it until 2017. By then the birthers will have turned their attention to President Clinton.

  93. avatar
    Scientist May 18, 2013 at 5:10 pm #

    CarlOrcas: And, finally, there is the issue of just how you would go about getting a current print of Mr. Obama’s right foot to which the comparison would be made. How do you see that happening? Hmmm??

    On his next Hawaiian vacation, Zullo will follow him (dodging the Secret Service) with a shovel and a mold and grab the wet sand in which the President stepped before the next wave washes it away.

  94. avatar
    donna May 18, 2013 at 5:15 pm #

    i want tot know why birthers, who are concerned about fraud, do not demand an accounting as to where the money has gone

  95. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 18, 2013 at 5:22 pm #

    Scientist: On his next Hawaiian vacation, Zullo will follow him (dodging the Secret Service) with a shovel and a mold and grab the wet sand in which the President stepped before the next wave washes it away.

    Either that or just fly to Washington and show up at the White House gate with his posse badge and a footprint kit. Google the term; you’ll be surprised how many there are.

    Anyway…..I’m sure the Secret Service will know what to do with him.

  96. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 18, 2013 at 6:57 pm #

    donna:
    i want tot know why birthers, who are concerned about fraud, do not demand an accounting as to where the money has gone

    Any day now.

  97. avatar
    Thinker May 18, 2013 at 7:24 pm #

    It definitely worked. Orly Taitz’s submission of that photo of that birth certificate in her Barnett case is what prompted her now-famous “let me feeeeneeesh” MSNBC interview. Birferism was gaining a little bit of momentum before that meltdown. I don’t know if it would have caught on with mainstream Republicans without that incident because birferism is all lies and BS, but Orly Taitz guaranteed that she and birferism would never be taken seriously by serious people when she fell for that fake Kenyan birth certificate.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I conclusively debunked the “Bomford” birth certificate in 2009. It was an Obot attempt to make the birthers look stupid.

  98. avatar
    Rickey May 18, 2013 at 9:05 pm #

    Hermitian:
    Lucas Smith has provided his sworn affidavit (as to the authenticity of his Obama Kenyan Certificate of Birth) to at least two courts.

    Additionally, he has also provided his sworn affidavit to every member of congress.He did this under penalty of perjury and knowing that it is a felony to provide false testimony to Congress.

    Well, Lucas Smith does know a thing or two about felonies. Have you ever seen his rap sheet?

    The first order of business would be for Lucas to prove that he has actually set foot in Kenya.

  99. avatar
    donna May 18, 2013 at 9:25 pm #

    HE MARTIAN: The foot print nails it !!!

    WOW, case closed!!!!! now that was easy – if only we had known ………….. ;)

  100. avatar
    Kiwiwriter May 18, 2013 at 9:26 pm #

    I just like how Zullo went off on Orly Taitz. No honor among Birthers.

    I wonder how they would run the country after their coup takes it over?

  101. avatar
    Northland10 May 18, 2013 at 9:50 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I conclusively debunked the “Bomford” birth certificate in 2009. It was an Obot attempt to make the birthers look stupid.

    4 years later and it still works.

  102. avatar
    Northland10 May 18, 2013 at 9:59 pm #

    Hermitian: “BRIEF OF AMICUS CURIAE LUCAS DANIEL SMITH, PRO SE, IN SUPPORT OF APPELLANTS. HUGH McINNISH, et al. vs BETH CHAPMAN, in her capacity as Secretary of State. SUPREME COURT OF ALABAMA. Case No. 1120465″

    proffered in this same case which provides the genuine Kenyan Certificate of Birth of Barack Obama II personally obtained from the Coast Provence General Hospital by Lucas Smith.

    Here’s one debunking of of Lucas:

    http://www.wnd.com/2009/08/108005/

    Yes, that’s Corsi and WND debunking Lucas’s “genuine” certificate.

  103. avatar
    Daniel May 18, 2013 at 10:18 pm #

    Hermitian:
    Lucas Smith has provided his sworn affidavit (as to the authenticity of his Obama Kenyan Certificate of Birth) to at least two courts.

    So a convicted forger swears to the veracity of his document, and you seem to think that should impress us?

    Do you think a lot of forgers swear that their documents are fake?

  104. avatar
    Keith May 18, 2013 at 10:51 pm #

    Hermitian: “The footprints of infants, along with the thumb or index finger prints of mothers, are still commonly recorded in hospitals to assist in verifying the identity of infants.

    Yes, but they are part of the State provided birth certificate, so our friendly neighborhood forger cannot possess an official birth certificate with cute little baby feets pictured on it.

    It has also been demonstrated (I’ve lost the reference, now) that he got his baby feet image from an public image gallery. Perhaps one of these.

  105. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater May 18, 2013 at 11:04 pm #

    Rickey: Well, Lucas Smith does know a thing or two about felonies. Have you ever seen his rap sheet?

    The first order of business would be for Lucas to prove that he has actually set foot in Kenya.

    And I have a feeling the moment he’s put under cross examination he starts calling the attorney gay as he always does when we ask him to prove he went to kenya.

  106. avatar
    JD Reed May 19, 2013 at 12:27 am #

    john:
    “This is just more noise, and submitting it with the McInnish appeal somehow makes it look like something “official.”

    I think one of Klayman’s intent is to bolster his argument that by Sheriff Arpaio and Cold Case Posse cooperating in this case, does show that they an “Official Source”.If that is so, then SOS Chapman was negiligent because she ignored indication of fraud from an “official Source”.Further, Sheriff Arpaio is just not some no-name sheriff, Arpaio is nationally known.It is highly highly unlikely SOS Chapman did not or does not know who Sheriff Arpaio is.In ensense, that gives more argument that SOS Chapman ignored fraud from an “official source.”

    Klayman further asserts that if the court is going to consider the Amicis Brief from the ADP, that due process fairness requires them to consider Zullo’s brief as well.

    As we has seen from past elections, SOS does have the power to investigate and remove candidates from the ballot who are no eligible.Thus, this makes SOS Chapman even more negligent.

    Finally, SOS Chapman was asked repeatedly to vet Obama based on Arpaio’s investigation and to uphold her oath.SOS Chapman did absolutely nothing. Even AZ SOS Bennett made an inquiry that further defeats SOS Chapman.

    “Nationally known” equates to reliable? Jodi Arias is a nationally-known expert on self-defense. Bernie Madoff is a nationally-known expert in profitable investment strategies.
    It is not negligence to ignore the word of someone who hasn’t been duly qualified as an authority in the field that they offer their “expertise.”
    Sheriff Joe relies on Mike Zullo, who is either simply a liar or the most clueless investigator since Inspector Clouseau.

  107. avatar
    Keith May 19, 2013 at 4:53 am #

    Keith: Yes, but they are part of the State provided birth certificate,

    That was supposed to read:

    Yes, but they are NOT part of the State provided birth certificate

    Sorry for the error.

  108. avatar
    Hermitian May 19, 2013 at 9:26 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I conclusively debunked the “Bomford” birth certificate in 2009. It was an Obot attempt to make the birthers look stupid. Some are too stupid to realize that they have been punked.

    The “Lucas Smith” BC and the “Bomford” BC are two different documents.

  109. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater May 19, 2013 at 12:47 pm #

    Hermitian: The “Lucas Smith” BC and the “Bomford” BC are two different documents.

    Yes and both are fake. Lucas Smith is a convicted forger and conman. He’s spent half his adult life in and out of prison and owes significant debts to the courts.

  110. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater May 19, 2013 at 12:47 pm #

    Is Hermitian in moderation? Everytime I quote him I get moderated

  111. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 19, 2013 at 12:48 pm #

    You mentioned E. F. Lavender, and that is on the Bomford certificate, so I assumed that was what you were talking about.

    However, both the Lucas Smith and the Bomford certificate share the same fatal flow: they lack provenance. Many objections have been raised over the authenticity of both, most of which I fully agree with, but without provenance, there really is no reason to consider them seriously.

    Hermitian: The “Lucas Smith” BC and the “Bomford” BC are two different documents.

  112. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 19, 2013 at 12:54 pm #

    Yet the Corsi article presents some dubious claims of its own. Tangentially, Corsi argues that Kenyan security forces took away any possible Barack Obama certificates, so one couldn’t be found.

    Northland10: Yes, that’s Corsi and WND debunking Lucas’s “genuine” certificate.

  113. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 19, 2013 at 12:54 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater:
    Is Hermitian in moderation?Everytime I quote him I get moderated

    That happened to me yesterday on one post but not on another. They were done a few minutes apart.

  114. avatar
    Hermitian May 19, 2013 at 4:15 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: You mentioned E. F. Lavender, and that is on the Bomford certificate, so I assumed that was what you were talking about.

    I didn’t mention E. F. Lavender to anyone.


    [Yes, you did. http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2013/05/zullos-irrelevant-affidavit/#comment-267769. Doc]

  115. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 19, 2013 at 4:50 pm #

    Actually, I personally have never seen or heard of any US state birth certificate with footprints on it, and I’ve worked with a lot of birth certificates in my career. Some hospitals seem to have done it, and perhaps it is more common in other parts of the world, but it’s not common in state records.

    Keith: Yes, but they are [not] part of the State provided birth certificate, so our friendly neighborhood forger cannot possess an official birth certificate with cute little baby feets pictured on it.

  116. avatar
    JD Reed May 19, 2013 at 6:35 pm #

    Hermitian: The “Lucas Smith” BC and the “Bomford” BC are two different documents.

    Yes they are, and they’re SO different that it’s impossible that both are genuine. So logically, we start out with that — both cannot be real, or one or the other can be real and the other be fake. The fourth possibility, that both are genuine, was off the table from the get-go.

    So look at each: The purported Obama Kenyan BC looks very much like the Bomford BC. In fact, the names, numbers and other data are identical at so many locations on the document that one has to be a photohsop of the other. The odds against both being real, given the several identical data points, is in the millions or billions to one, against.

    Which one? Well, if the South Australian guy’s document was photoshop of
    a real Kenyan BC, it would have been so easy to prove. Just get genuine copies of other BCs issued in Bomfonrd’s locality at the time, and compare. Either the numbers and officials’ names would point to its authenticity, or they wouldn’t. Getting copies of other BCs would be no big deal; just wave a little money around. In a billion-dollar presidential campaign, spending a few tens of thousands would have done the trick.
    Same thing in reverse in Kenya. Such a desparately poor country should have many people willing to show copies of genuine BCs for people born around Aug. 4, 1961, in Mombossa. that getting copies to compare couold be achieved at a bargain price.
    As for the Lucas Smith document, offering a convicted forger’s word that a document is genuine would be truly laughable. But again, obtaining BCs for people born about the same time and place should have been easy, for comparison purposes.

    I can see birthers asking why couldn’t the Obama forces spend the money to obtain comparison BCs.
    Simple answer: they don’t have to. The burden of proof lies with those who challenge the validity of the Hawaiian documents that have been vouched for by that state’s DOH.
    They haven’t met this burden in what, nearly four years? So the smart money says that this is because they can’t, and thus they never will.

  117. avatar
    donna May 19, 2013 at 7:14 pm #

    some hospitals issued “souvenirs” with footprints cause they were CUTE – i would be hard pressed to find that the state dept used those souvenirs to issue a passport – anyone?

    wiki: “Most hospitals in the U.S. issue a souvenir birth certificate which may include the footprints of the newborn. However, these birth certificates are not legally accepted as proof of age or citizenship, and are frequently rejected by the Bureau of Consular Affairs during passport applications. Many Americans believe [citation needed] the souvenir records to be their official birth certificates, when in reality they hold little legal value.”

    Your Original Birth Record:

    “Often, people don’t realize that what they consider their official birth certificate is not actually a legal document. The copy given to new parents at the hospital, sometimes with the baby’s footprints on it, is meant to be a cherished keepsake but is not valid for official proof of identity. Your original birth certificate must remain on file at the designated vital records agency office of your birth place after being submitted for registration by the attending hospital. This is where the only “original” copy of your birth record is located. This version is kept under lock and key and most people will never see their original. This is done to help ensure your identity is protected. For purposes of official business you’ll want to obtain a certified (raised seal) birth certificate from the department of public health or vital records office where the birth took place. This is also often described as an “official” copy.”

    http://www.articlesbase.com/personal-finance-articles/why-a-photocopy-of-your-birth-certificate-wont-be-accepted-for-official-business-855185.html

    kos: If your Mom still has your Keepsake Birth Certificate from the Hospital with the Wee Footprints, hang onto it, in case you ever run for office. And ask her what she did with your Baby Shoes and that Lock of Hair from your First Haircut. Could come in handy.

  118. avatar
    Northland10 May 19, 2013 at 8:14 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Yet the Corsi article presents some dubious claims of its own. Tangentially, Corsi argues that Kenyan security forces took away any possible Barack Obama certificates, so one couldn’t be found.

    If it did not have dubious claims, it would not be Corsi and WND. They have a standard to uphold.

    I am waiting do Hermie to bring up the Canada BC and they one with the watermark in Dutch. If I recall, they were both included in exhibits by Berg and Fair respectively.

  119. avatar
    Northland10 May 19, 2013 at 8:16 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater:
    Is Hermitian in moderation?Everytime I quote him I get moderated

    I had a comment quoting him in moderation. I thought it may have been due to citing WND.

  120. avatar
    Monkey Boy May 19, 2013 at 9:02 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I conclusively debunked the “Bomford” birth certificate in 2009. It was an Obot attempt to make the birthers look stupid. Some are too stupid to realize that they have been punked.

    Kind of like carrying coals to Newcastle–just saying.

  121. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 20, 2013 at 1:19 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Actually, I personally have never seen or heard of any US state birth certificate with footprints on it, and I’ve worked with a lot of birth certificates in my career. Some hospitals seem to have done it, and perhaps it is more common in other parts of the world, but it’s not common in state records.

    Footprinting was popular for a couple decades after the war. A company I worked with sold foot printing kits. The idea was to be able to identify a baby shortly after birth while it was still in the hospital…..not years later….since the print was supposed to be taken in the delivery room.

    That proved problematic because of newly delivered babies can be kind of messy.

    And finally the fact that nurses weren’t trained print technicians resulted in the vast majority of prints being worthless.

    I don’t recall any situations where the print was utilized in the permanent birth record.

    Other than that it was a great idea.

  122. avatar
    dunstvangeet May 20, 2013 at 3:09 am #

    Hermitian…

    Read the Federal Rules of Evidence. That is how you actually get evidence into a court of law. Those are the rules governing it. The FRE are a good generic one, but each state has their own Rules of Evidence. In order to get it into court, you’d have to get either the U.S. State Department, or the Kenyan Consulate to authenticate it. Both of them have said that Obama was not born in Kenya.

    But other problems with the birth certificate…

    1. The signature of “Heltan Mangana” was misspelled (he spells his name Helton. Do you really think that someone who spells his name one way will spell it another way when signing it?

    2. Heltan Mangana was not even the chief administrator at the time that Lucas was alledgely in the country. He didn’t become chief administrator until months after that.

    3. The Date formats use the Americanized Month/Day/Year format, rather than the British ISO Day/Month/Year format…

    And yet you believe this much more than you believe the state government in charge of holding records of birth which says directly “Obama was born in the United States”, and that his birth certificate is “a valid Hawaii State Birth Certificate.”

  123. avatar
    misha marinsky May 20, 2013 at 1:43 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Some are too stupid to realize that they have been punked.

    Sharon Rondeau fell for one of mine.

  124. avatar
    misha marinsky May 20, 2013 at 1:54 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Some are too stupid to realize that they have been punked.

    A LSU math professor fell for “Lord Christopher Monckton.” When I told him the whole elaborate set-up on a thread on this site, he did not answer and dropped out.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w833cAs9EN0

  125. avatar
    Northland10 May 20, 2013 at 8:07 pm #

    dunstvangeet: 1. The signature of “Heltan Mangana” was misspelled (he spells his name Helton. Do you really think that someone who spells his name one way will spell it another way when signing it?

    Apparently, you have not read Orly’s legal filings.