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SSA: No Harrison Bounel

No surprise. In a court filing in the case of Taitz v. Colvin the Social Security Administration advised Orly Taitz that SSA “could not locate the requested records for Mr. Harrison Bounel with the information provided by Plaintiff.” Taitz had pinned her Obama Social Security fraud hopes on the perhaps-mythical Bounel, combining an unidentified public record associating President Obama’s (former?) social-security number with the name Harrison J. Bounel and what appears to be a records error birth date of 1890.

When Taitz added in Obama’s social-security number into the calculation, SSA refused under the exemption of disclosing information on a living person. If there is indeed someone named Harrison J. Bounel (and I have no idea whether there is or not), the chances of his birth year being 1890 are vanishingly small, and without such an early birth date, Taitz loses the presumption that he is deceased, and with that loses any chance of getting records from the SSA. (There is a Harry S. Bounel born around 1890 in census records).

The most revealing item in the SSA response is that it confirms that the published Obama social-security number belongs to a living person. This all but rules out anyone born in 1890.

Read article at the Taitz web site.

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123 Responses to SSA: No Harrison Bounel

  1. avatar
    Curious George September 16, 2013 at 9:56 pm #

    Long form bc forgery…..strike one! Selective Service System registration forgery……Strike two! Social Security Number fraud…..Strike three! You’re outtta here!

  2. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 16, 2013 at 9:57 pm #

    I just posted this in the open thread:

    I just checked the Death Index with a birth date range of 1889 and 1891 for all three options: Harrison, Harry J and just the last name of Bounel. No returns.

    I had also run the names with no birth date and got nothing.

    Those records are for 1937 on. Do we have any idea when Mr. Bounel died? If he wasn’t in Social Security – like maybe he worked for a railroad – he might not be in their index or he may have died before 1937.

    I’m sure someone has looked at this further than I have in the last ten minutes.

  3. avatar
    john September 16, 2013 at 10:17 pm #

    If it means Bounel is still a live, doesn’t suggest an 1 single SSN for 2 individual and hence Obama is or has used the SSN. How do we know Bounel is not Obama?

  4. avatar
    Paul September 16, 2013 at 10:21 pm #

    Oh you silly, SILLY obots! All this proves is that Obama got to the SSA!

    DAMN YOU OBAMA’S THUGS!!!!!

  5. avatar
    Arthur September 16, 2013 at 11:00 pm #

    Based on one of Dr. C.’s article from earlier this year I gathered the following information.

    First, President Obama’s SSN was revealed by accident in tax documents, and Orly Taits found this information sometime in 2009.

    Second, Al Hendershot, a skiptracer, linked the name “Harrison J. Bounel” to Obama’s SSN in November, 2009. In his article on this subject, Dr. C. observed,

    “[T]he public record linking Bounel (who no one seems to be able to find) with the SSN did not appear until after the SSN was made public. This leaves the obvious possibility that the public record was derived from a fraudulent use of the public number. The fact that Barack Obama’s address in Chicago is also associated with the record is strong additional reason to think that the record is bogus.

    “The other thing that birthers associate with the Obama SSN is the date 1890, and they have generally linked the Bounel name with that date of birth. If that is indeed so, then a 119-year-old Bounel did something in 2009 to create a public record of his social-security record at Barack Obama’s house.”

    My question for Dr. C is, how does someone create a record that would appear in a database such as Hendershot uses? Also, do you think that someone created this record as a joke, or do you think that a birther did it to try to discredit Obama?

    I’d also be interested in any other thoughts Dr. C. has on the origin of this farce.

    Thanks!

  6. avatar
    MattR September 16, 2013 at 11:11 pm #

    Arthur: My question for Dr. C is, how does someone create a record that would appear in a database such as Hendershot uses?

    I am not going to speculate on the why, but I think something like applying for a credit card with Bounel’s name, Obama’s Chicago address and Obama’s SSN would be enough to create the record.

  7. avatar
    BatGuano September 16, 2013 at 11:39 pm #

    from the comments at ORYR:

    “Susan Daniels 4 hours ago

    The SSN does not belong to Bounel and Orly is wrong if she says that I ever verified anything about it being his. I told her from the start that it was not and told Hendershot the same thing.”

  8. avatar
    Arthur September 17, 2013 at 12:13 am #

    MattR: but I think something like applying for a credit card with Bounel’s name, Obama’s Chicago address and Obama’s SSN would be enough to create the record.

    Thanks for the feedback. What you’ve described sounds likely. I’m still intrigued by the question of motivation . . .

  9. avatar
    alg September 17, 2013 at 12:20 am #

    Frankly, I have never understood what possible reason Obama would have to usurp someone else’s SSN and then use it to file his own tax returns with. It makes no sense whatsoever.

    When people steal someone’s SSN they use it to impersonate the person it belongs to. Using someone else’s SSN to file one’s tax return would only have the net result of having one’s return invalidated.

    Birthers have never offered a credible motive for Obama to use someone else’s SSN on his own tax return paperwork. But then birther logic is not rational anyway.

  10. avatar
    slash2k September 17, 2013 at 1:15 am #

    @Arthur: databases such as the one Hendershot used are notorious for getting the wrong names and SSNs together: the landlord’s name and the tenant’s SSN, husband’s current wife’s name and first wife’s SSN, one roommate’s name and the other’s number, etc. There’s usually no motivation involved; it’s just plain sloppy paperwork.

    Similarly, one of the databases (Hendershot’s?) yielded multiple birth dates for Obama, including both August 4 and April 8, 1961 (i.e., 8/4/61 and 4/8/61), and Susan Daniels came up with both 1890 and 1990 birth dates for somebody using an SSN issued in 1977.

    These databases mash together every piece of information that could possibly be connected to the individual, under the theory that the skip-tracer would rather winnow through extraneous and plain wrong data rather than miss a good lead just because the data match wasn’t perfect. Taitz, of course, can’t grasp that fact and assumes that everything in the computer is perfect and perfectly correct.

  11. avatar
    Rickey September 17, 2013 at 1:51 am #

    slash2k:
    @Arthur: databases such as the one Hendershot used are notorious for getting the wrong names and SSNs together: the landlord’s name and the tenant’s SSN, husband’s current wife’s name and first wife’s SSN, one roommate’s name and the other’s number, etc. There’s usually no motivation involved; it’s just plain sloppy paperwork.

    Similarly, one of the databases (Hendershot’s?) yielded multiple birth dates for Obama, including both August 4 and April 8, 1961 (i.e., 8/4/61 and 4/8/61), and Susan Daniels came up with both 1890 and 1990 birth dates for somebody using an SSN issued in 1977.

    These databases mash together every piece of information that could possibly be connected to the individual, under the theory that the skip-tracer would rather winnow through extraneous and plain wrong data rather than miss a good lead just because the data match wasn’t perfect. Taitz, of course, can’t grasp that fact and assumes that everything in the computer is perfect and perfectly correct.

    You are correct. I work with Lexis-Nexis databases nearly every day. Lexis-Nexis, Intellius, etc. aggregate data from numerous sources, including the three major credit bureaus. Every report contains the following disclaimer:

    Important: The Public Records and commercially available data sources used on reports have errors. Data is sometimes entered poorly, processed incorrectly and is generally not free from defect. This system should not be relied upon as definitively accurate. Before relying on any data this system supplies, it should be independently verified.

    Experienced, ethical investigators know how to separate the wheat from the chaff.

    As for Harry Bounel, there is a chance that he never applied for a Social Security Number – assuming that the spelling of his surname in the 1940 census is indeed “Bounel.” Or it may be that his death was never reported to the Social Security Administration, although the response from the SSA makes it clear that if he did have a SSN he was not born in 1890. The census taker noted that the information about him came from his landlord, who may have been guessing at his age and/or may have gotten the spelling of his last name wrong. The census taker never spoke to Bounel. In addition, the census taker’s handwriting is not the most legible I have seen.

    The Social Security Death Index does have a record of a man named Harrison Bonnel who was born in 1897 and who was issued SSN 136-12-6935 in New Jersey sometime prior to 1951. He died in Florida in 1978. Was he the mystery man who lived in the Bronx in 1940? Possibly.

  12. avatar
    justlw September 17, 2013 at 2:17 am #

    [Camera shot from above, pulls back, back, back, away from a woman standing, looking up, face contorted in rage]

    BOUNELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!

  13. avatar
    misha marinsky September 17, 2013 at 2:55 am #

    justlw: [Camera shot from above, pulls back, back, back, away from a woman standing, looking up, face contorted in rage]

    STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

  14. avatar
    Kate September 17, 2013 at 3:36 am #

    slash2k:
    @Arthur: databases such as the one Hendershot used are notorious for getting the wrong names and SSNs together: the landlord’s name and the tenant’s SSN, husband’s current wife’s name and first wife’s SSN, one roommate’s name and the other’s number, etc. There’s usually no motivation involved; it’s just plain sloppy paperwork.

    Similarly, one of the databases (Hendershot’s?) yielded multiple birth dates for Obama, including both August 4 and April 8, 1961 (i.e., 8/4/61 and 4/8/61), and Susan Daniels came up with both 1890 and 1990 birth dates for somebody using an SSN issued in 1977.

    These databases mash together every piece of information that could possibly be connected to the individual, under the theory that the skip-tracer would rather winnow through extraneous and plain wrong data rather than miss a good lead just because the data match wasn’t perfect. Taitz, of course, can’t grasp that fact and assumes that everything in the computer is perfect and perfectly correct.

    There is also the fact that every listing posted for Barack Obama, other than those that would be accurate listings of past and present addresses, was posted after 2007 when Obama announced that he would be running for President. You have to be deaf, dumb and blind, or an obsessed birther to consider these listings as anything other than what they obviously were, a not so humorous joke posted by those who were trying to cause problems for then candidate Sen. Barack Obama.

    Anyone who would rely on this database for accurate information is not interested in finding the truth.

  15. avatar
    John Reilly September 17, 2013 at 3:58 am #

    The way credit reporting databases work is that information is collected from many sources, including from companies which share data and report (i.e, Sears) and public sources such as court records. There is no “file” as we would understand a file either in a physical sense or in a computer database sense. Some creditors do not report at all, such as the phone company. Small creditors often can’t afford the fees or to meet the data reporting requirements. Some large creditors may buy data but not share their own to protect what they think is a valuable asset.

    When you inquire of the database, the computer selects all data which matches in any way with the request. Thus, if you say you want data of Social Security no. 123-45-6789, you will get every reference to that number. That will give you a large data return, but much of it is worthless. If you limit your request by providing more identifying data in different fields, you get a more limited, more usable and more accurate report.

    If someone walks into Sears and applies for a credit card in the name of Harrison Bounel, using the President’s social security number and home address in Chicago, Sears will then run that application with one or more credit reporting agencies. The fact that an inquiry was made generates a record, just as if Doc walked into his local Ford dealer and applied for a car loan, whether or not he was approved or, if approved, bought the car. It shows as an inquiry, but too many inquiries can ding a FICO score. If you are an authorized user of a credit reporting agency system, and don’t care about your legal and contractual obligations, you can inquire about “Mickey Mouse.” I assure you that you will get a report. A lengthy report.

    For real users, credit reporting agencies use algorithms to limit the data return to data with a high probability of accuracy. There has been litigation about this, both by private individuals and by governmental authorities such as the FTC. A junk report results in credit denials, and Sears really wants to sell you that riding mower, so it wants the report to be accurate.

    For those of us blessed with a grandfather who is “John X. Reilly,” a Father who is “John B. Reilly,” and me, “John F. Reilly,” the amount of errors is staggering, as middle initials often get lost in the mix, and the credit agency software sees three home addresses all in Northwest Indiana. Sometimes, since we use a common business address, the problem is even worse. Fortunately, we have relationships with our bankers, car dealers and farm equipment lenders and none of us has bad credit.

    If there really was a Harrison Bounel in 2009, there would be more than one entry about him. Unless you live totally off the grid, a credit report of a decent, law abiding citizen will run pages. I pulled one from my files from a few years back and it ran 7 pages, with just over 100 entries. My notes from then indicated that about 20 entries were wrong, in other words, not about me, but most likely about my Father and Grandfather. Since we all share a common Irish-American name, some may have been about strangers. For folks who did not spend 18 years in the service, the report may even be longer, as there is far more history.

    If the 1940 census taker got the information for Harry Bounel right, perhaps he never applied for a social security number. Perhaps he did and the name is simply spelled differently. As I understand the Social Security death index (from my genealogical research) it only lists people whose death was actually reported to social security, either to obtain the social security death benefit, or to stop social security checks. I do not believe I have ever seen a SSDI reference to a person who died before being eligible for benefits. The data in the SSDI shows an address, which is not the last known address of the deceased. It is, rather, the last address to which a check was sent. I suppose it is possible, but, as I recall, the social security people will tell you that the index is not an authoritative source of all people who ever had a social security number who died. I’m not even sure the government knows that. I will ask Mr. Snowden if I run into him.

    Dr. Taitz simply does not know what she is talking about. That, of course, comes as no surprise.

    She ran a story the other day about a terrorist being entertained at the Pentagon and wondered what Pres. Obama was up to. Of course, if you read the underlying story, the lunch was in 2002, and Pres. Obama had nothing to do with it. My comment was not published. Or she has a story about differences between the English and German Wikipedia articles about German debt, as if Wikipedia is authoritative. She will never learn that stuff you read on the internet may be false, as pointed out in several books by an author in New York, Anne Mintz, who Dr. C has quoted here. I think one was called “Web of Deception.”

    Much like other challenges to the President, this one has no basis. I’m confident he is using the number assigned to him. We may never know why it starts with the first three digits that it has. As I’ve reported here, my number appears to have been issued with reference to an Eastern state. Since my first job was in Indiana, and my first bank accounts were in Indiana, and I was taken as a dependent in Indiana, it is curious, but, ultimately, who cares? My wife’s number appears from a Wisconsin series, but in her case, her first job was in Wisconsin, so maybe that is the explanation.

  16. avatar
    The Magic M September 17, 2013 at 4:20 am #

    justlw: “BOUNELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!”

    KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!

    alg: Frankly, I have never understood what possible reason Obama would have to usurp someone else’s SSN and then use it to file his own tax returns with. It makes no sense whatsoever.

    When people steal someone’s SSN they use it to impersonate the person it belongs to. Using someone else’s SSN to file one’s tax return would only have the net result of having one’s return invalidated.

    Birthers’ usual response is “the IRS/SSA are in on it”, but if they were, they could’ve issued Obama any new SSN they wanted to and wouldn’t have to use one that had already been assigned before.

    The whole SSN story makes even less sense than the ridiculous travel story they have to concoct to explain their “born in Kenya” nonsense and is on par with their “BC forgery” story (“Obama has the entire Hawaiian DOH in his pocket but still he somehow needed to forge his BC on the eve of release instead of asking Hawaii to provide him a real one”).

  17. avatar
    Lani September 17, 2013 at 5:48 am #

    That census report sure looked like Bonnel to me, and at least Harry/Harrison Bonnel shows up in SSA records. But – yawn – boring! Usurpering is not included!

  18. avatar
    Punchmaster via mobile September 17, 2013 at 8:45 am #

    You beat me to it, Magic M.
    But you gotta hand it to Orly. She’s so committed to the lie, that she called the SSA’s response “nonsense”. With any luck she will say the same thing when her doctor tells her that all this stress could kill her, if she doesn’t find a new goal in life.

  19. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 17, 2013 at 9:05 am #

    My understanding is that social-security numbers are never reused.

    The Magic M: Birthers’ usual response is “the IRS/SSA are in on it”, but if they were, they could’ve issued Obama any new SSN they wanted to and wouldn’t have to use one that had already been assigned before.

  20. avatar
    Arthur September 17, 2013 at 9:08 am #

    slash2k: These databases mash together every piece of information that could possibly be connected to the individual, under the theory that the skip-tracer would rather winnow through extraneous and plain wrong data rather than miss a good lead just because the data match wasn’t perfect.

    Yes, that makes sense. Thanks for the info!

  21. avatar
    Arthur September 17, 2013 at 9:10 am #

    John Reilly: For those of us blessed with a grandfather who is “John X. Reilly,” a Father who is “John B. Reilly,” and me, “John F. Reilly,” the amount of errors is staggering, as middle initials often get lost in the mix, and the credit agency software sees three home addresses all in Northwest Indiana. Sometimes, since we use a common business address, the problem is even worse. Fortunately, we have relationships with our bankers, car dealers and farm equipment lenders and none of us has bad credit.

    Wow, that does sound like it could lead to numerous errors!

  22. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 17, 2013 at 9:22 am #

    I think the most likely scenario is that someone pulled a credit report for Harrison J Bounel using Obama’s ssn and address, the intent being to learn private information about Obama.

    A conspiracy-minded person might think that a birther created the public record by filling out a credit application with the Bounel name and Obama’s details in order to provide evidence for a smear campaign that Obama stole someone’s SSN.

    I think the 1890 part is just a typo or technical error.

    Arthur: My question for Dr. C is, how does someone create a record that would appear in a database such as Hendershot uses? Also, do you think that someone created this record as a joke, or do you think that a birther did it to try to discredit Obama?
    I’d also be interested in any other thoughts Dr. C. has on the origin of this farce.

  23. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater September 17, 2013 at 9:26 am #

    The Social security claim has always been nonsense. It makes no sense whatsoever for him to use someone else’s social as his own with his own name and his own taxes and selective service information.

    On a side note I had an argument with a birther on youtube a while back. It was regarding the possibility that Obama might have gotten assigned a new social after birthers plastered his all over the internet. He tried to claim that they don’t issue new socials and his sister had her identity stolen and there was nothing she could do about it. I gave him a direct link on the SSA website on how she could try to get the SSA to issue her a new social. He argued back and forth for a few days until he read the link and realized he was wrong. At that point as most birthers are wont to do he changed the subject.

  24. avatar
    The Magic M September 17, 2013 at 9:57 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: A conspiracy-minded person might think that a birther created the public record by filling out a credit application with the Bounel name and Obama’s details in order to provide evidence for a smear campaign that Obama stole someone’s SSN.

    I had this theory years ago. Same with ORYR’s latest obsession over “A Barry Soetoro is listed as voter at the WH address”.
    Then again I’d have expected the hypothetical planter of such “evidence” to have used a name that actually resolved to something (and wasn’t a “one place only” name).

  25. avatar
    3Fiddy5 September 17, 2013 at 10:40 am #

    “If it means Bounel is still a live, doesn’t suggest an 1 single SSN for 2 individual and hence Obama is or has used the SSN. How do we know Bounel is not Obama?”

    How do we know he’s (Obama) NOT…. Mel Torme??

  26. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG September 17, 2013 at 10:46 am #

    Laughably, Falcon is taking Orly’s side on this issue.
    Not surprisingly he’s also calling yesterday’s shooting a “false flag” operation.
    Well, I guess if one is insane enough to believe Taitz’s poopies…

  27. avatar
    Rickey September 17, 2013 at 11:00 am #

    John Reilly:
    The data in the SSDI shows an address, which is not the last known address of the deceased.It is, rather, the last address to which a check was sent.

    To clarify that point, the SSDI has fields for “last residence” and “last benefit.” Harrison Bonnel’s last residence is listed as Fort Lauderdale (no street address, just city, county, state and Zip Code). The field for last benefit is blank, so there likely was no claim for the death benefit.

    Presumably the “last residence” is where his Social Security checks were being sent. Of course, that is not necessarily where he died. The SSDI is only somewhat useful for in determining a place of death.

    It also is worth noting that like any other database, the SSDI is not free of errors. The SSA has a protocol for reporting errors in the SSDI.

  28. avatar
    Rickey September 17, 2013 at 11:23 am #

    john:
    If it means Bounel is still a live, doesn’t suggest an 1 single SSN for 2 individual and hence Obama is or has used the SSN.How do we know Bounel is not Obama?

    No, it doesn’t mean that Bounel is still alive. It just means that the Social Security Administration has no record of issuing a Social Security Number to him.

    As for Bounel being Obama, Orly claims that Bounel was born in 1890. Does Obama look like he is 123 years old?

  29. avatar
    Thomas Brown September 17, 2013 at 11:23 am #

    3Fiddy5:
    “If it means Bounel is still a live, doesn’t suggest an 1 single SSN for 2 individual and hence Obama is or has used the SSN. How do we know Bounel is not Obama?”

    How do we know he’s (Obama)NOT…. Mel Torme??

    My theory is he’s H.P Lovecraft, who was born in 1890. He learned the secrets of longevity and shape-shifting from Yog-Sothoth, and used his powers to become President Obama (sic). And who is (obviously) planning the subjugation of the human race.

  30. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 17, 2013 at 11:28 am #

    john: How do we know Bounel is not Obama?

    We think?

  31. avatar
    John Reilly September 17, 2013 at 11:44 am #

    john:
    If it means Bounel is still a live, doesn’t suggest an 1 single SSN for 2 individual and hence Obama is or has used the SSN.How do we know Bounel is not Obama?

    I see John the Troll is back. John has yet to explain what country the Nordykes came from if they were described as “Caucasian.”

    Stop ducking the question John.

  32. avatar
    bob September 17, 2013 at 11:58 am #

    Rickey: As for Bounel being Obama, Orly claims that Bounel was born in 1890. Does Obama look like he is 123 years old?

    Colbert (in 2009) called Obama a “Connecticut vampire.”

  33. avatar
    Birther Weary September 17, 2013 at 12:19 pm #

    Rickey: No, it doesn’t mean that Bounel is still alive. It just means that the Social Security Administration has no record of issuing a Social Security Number to him.

    As for Bounel being Obama, Orly claims that Bounel was born in 1890. Does Obama look like he is 123 years old?

    John is just using the well know Sherlockian principle of deduction here: When you rule out all the possible answers, whatever is left, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.

    I don’t think Sherlock even meant for his principle to be used successfully be insane people, though.

  34. avatar
    Kate September 17, 2013 at 12:26 pm #

    Lani:
    That census report sure looked like Bonnel to me, and at least Harry/Harrison Bonnel shows up in SSA records.But – yawn – boring!Usurpering is not included!

    IIRC the middle initial for the Harry Bounel that Taitz found on the census was L., not to mention the simple fact that the spelling was difficult to ascertain as 100% accurate on the census form. It could have been Bounel, Bonnel Borrel or possibly another combination. Taitz has let her imagination run wild, as usual, going so far as to state that Bounel is not only Russian, he’s Moldovan! I’m not sure how she determined that and it wouldn’t make sense if she were to tell us but I’m just as certain she’s wrong…AGAIN!

  35. avatar
    JoZeppy September 17, 2013 at 12:33 pm #

    john: If it means Bounel is still a live, doesn’t suggest an 1 single SSN for 2 individual and hence Obama is or has used the SSN. How do we know Bounel is not Obama?

    How do we know Obama isn’t the Easter Bunny?

    It is possible, and one might say, even probable, that there is a Harrison Bounel, and he is alive today. Orly’s first FOIA request was for Bounel, and listed Obama’s SSN. It was denied because the information could lead to the confirmation of information related to a living person. Meaning that there may be a living person with the name with a different SSN, or that the SSN provided by Orly is associated with a living person (we already know that), which may, or may not be the same person. If Bounel is alive, they are not authorized to confirm if it is, or is not his SSN…likewise, they cannot confirm whose SSN it is, if it belongs to another person, other than Bounel.

    The second request was for Mr. Bounel, born in 1890, from Russia, and the SNN, and other assorted identifiying information. With all that information, the SSA can confirm that no record exists, because they have no record of an individual with that name, born in that year.

    Going strictly by the SSA responses, and ignoring all outside information, all that you can positively conclude is that there is no record for a Harison Bounel born in 1890 with the given SSN.

  36. avatar
    Crustacean September 17, 2013 at 12:33 pm #

    Thomas Brown: President Obama (sic).

    Nicely done!!

  37. avatar
    charo September 17, 2013 at 12:40 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: . He tried to claim that they don’t issue new socials and his sister had her identity stolen and there was nothing she could do about it. I gave him a direct link on the SSA website on how she could try to get the SSA to issue her a new social.

    Issuing a new number may be even more problematic:

    http://www.protectmyid.com/identity-theft-protection-resources/identity-recovery/getting-a-new-ssn.aspx

    There is all kinds of information here, for instance, your old number is not voided, deleted or canceled.

  38. avatar
    Birther Weary September 17, 2013 at 1:04 pm #

    One of Orly’s FM’s has a brilliant idea:

    “Can Lilfelock obtain a credit report from mr Bounel ? Someone is stealing his name, reputation .”

  39. avatar
    Rickey September 17, 2013 at 1:07 pm #

    bob: Colbert (in 2009) called Obama a “Connecticut vampire.”

    And Orly had no idea that she was being mocked.

  40. avatar
    justlw September 17, 2013 at 1:43 pm #

    Paul: Oh you silly, SILLY obots! All this proves is that Obama got to the SSA!

    I’ll bet you dollars to donuts that they’re using XEREX MASHEENS.

  41. avatar
    john September 17, 2013 at 1:44 pm #

    “I think the 1890 part is just a typo or technical error.”

    Doc, how many times has that excuse been used when it comes to Obama?” I’ve lost count.

  42. avatar
    john September 17, 2013 at 1:45 pm #

    As Charles Kerchner has point out, a manipulation of SSNs would be the MO for someone who has forged IDs or who may not be a US citizen.

  43. avatar
    justlw September 17, 2013 at 1:46 pm #

    Birther Weary: John is just using the well know Sherlockian principle of deduction here: When you rule out ignore all the possible answers, whatever is left you can make up about the SBGitWH, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.

    FIFY

  44. avatar
    justlw September 17, 2013 at 1:51 pm #

    Birther Weary (quoting a FM): “Can Lilfelock obtain a credit report from mr Bounel”

    Since a go-to birther tool is pretending to be someone else in order to uncover putative personality theft (and BOOM go the irony meters!), I’m sure someone will jump right on it.

  45. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 17, 2013 at 2:13 pm #

    That makes no sense. You needn’t be a citizen to have a social-security number. Persons with forged IDs use the names of the people whose documents they forge. Using a mismatched name and number is an immediate flag to the IRS that something is wrong.

    Kerchner may fool birthers with this misinformation, but not normal people. We normals expect logical consistency.

    john: As Charles Kerchner has point out, a manipulation of SSNs would be the MO for someone who has forged IDs or who may not be a US citizen.

  46. avatar
    john September 17, 2013 at 2:15 pm #

    I guess Obama didn’t forge well. Birthers will smoke him out.

  47. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG September 17, 2013 at 2:23 pm #

    john:
    “I think the 1890 part is just a typo or technical error.”

    Doc, how many times has that excuse been used when it comes to Obama?”I’ve lost count.

    John, how many times are you going to dodge our questions? I’ve lost count. Put up or shut up…or light yourself on fire. Please pick one.
    P.S. Any sane person would take Doc’s educated guess about something like a typo, over a birther’s “facts” any day.

  48. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 17, 2013 at 2:27 pm #

    Given the number of details examined about Obama’s life, I think relatively few typos and technical errors have been found. I would cite 4:

    Missing year date on selective-service record
    Soebarkah crossed out
    Connecticut social-security number
    Bounel/1890 public record

    Possible explanations:

    1. Copy is poor and missing other parts of the image
    2. Nobody knows what it even means
    3. Can be explained by switching two adjacent numbers on the keyboard in zipcode
    4. Nobody knows what public record this came from and anyone could make such a record for Obama if they wanted to. http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2013/09/ssa-harrison-bounel/#comment-288490

    There have also been various misstatements in public remarks, but I think those are very common in everyone’s life.

    Did I miss something, or can John not count to 4?

    john: Doc, how many times has that excuse been used when it comes to Obama?” I’ve lost count.

  49. avatar
    Whatever4 September 17, 2013 at 2:29 pm #

    John, have you ever looked at the source data for this claim? The Daniels affidavit shows the 3 reports. Take a look at them here, at the bottom of the page: http://www.thefogbow.com/special-reports/social-security-number/#2

    In the detailed report on pages 6-13, we can see where the 1890 date comes from. From 1988 to 1991, Barack Obama attended Harvard Law School and lived in a basement apartment at 365 Broadway in Somerville, MA. There are NINE entries for this Somerville address. All are the SSN number ending in 4425. DOB: 4 are 8/4/1961, 1 for 4/8/1961, 2 have no DOB, 1 has 1990, 1 has 1890. [note — pre-Y2K most dates in the US were written as MM/DD/YY. The Y2K conversion forced older data to conform to MM/DD/YYYY. It’s easy to see how 1890 and 1990 could be the same number.]

    This is a prime example of why these databases are merely the starting point for an investigation. A rational person might look at those entries and conclude that 4/8/1961 is an entry error and the two incomplete entries are bad data given the strong correlation between the 8/4/1961 and the SSN in other entries. They would move on to the next set of addresses. Birthers, however, see the same data and conclude the number was stolen from a guy born in 1890.

    The Harrison Bounel name wasn’t associated in any way with the Somerville address. It appeared in a single entry associated with Obama’s Chicago home.

    Yes, there are plenty of database errors associated with Obama. There are plenty of database errors associated with other prominent people, too. And with regular people. Like in this article How Vast Error-Prone Databases Are Trashing Our Economic Lives:

    A recent study by the Federal Trade Commission found that 21 percent of credit reports contain material errors and that as 10 million Americans have errors in their credit reports so serious that they would likely pay more for auto loans or other credit, or could be shut out entirely. http://prospect.org/article/how-vast-error-prone-databases-are-trashing-our-economic-lives

    And that’s in credit reporting databases, which are somewhat regulated. The databases that birthers have mined for Bounel and 1890 are the even more error-prone skip-tracing databases.

  50. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 17, 2013 at 2:30 pm #

    Any day now.

    john: Birthers will smoke him out.

  51. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 17, 2013 at 2:31 pm #

    john:
    “I think the 1890 part is just a typo or technical error.”

    Doc, how many times has that excuse been used when it comes to Obama?”I’ve lost count.

    There’s a difference between an excuse and a reason.

  52. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 17, 2013 at 2:34 pm #

    john:
    I guess Obama didn’t forge well.Birthers will smoke him out.

    That fire has been burning for years now, john? How much bigger does it need to get?

  53. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 17, 2013 at 2:46 pm #

    john:
    As Charles Kerchner has point out, a manipulation of SSNs would be the MO for someone who has forged IDs or who may not be a US citizen.

    First: As Doc noted anyone earning income in the U.S. can get a Social Security number. No citizenship required.

    Second: Since the IRS and SS are quite aggressive in kicking back returns with names and numbers that don’t match their records how do you explain Obama using a phony number since 1977?

    Have the IRS and SS been in on the scam for 36 years?

  54. avatar
    richCares September 17, 2013 at 2:48 pm #

    “Kerchner may fool birthers with this misinformation”
    Orly holds the same view, neither of these birthers know that you don’t have to be a US Citizen to get a SSN, one example my wife, a Japanese, had a SSN long before she finally applied for citizenship, only in birferland do you need a SSN to be a citizen, both Orly & john merely show their ignorance.

  55. avatar
    john September 17, 2013 at 2:49 pm #

    Come on Doc, every one of Obama’s discreptancy is explained by some INNOCENT mistake. Yea Right! We can keep going Doc….

    1. Birth Certificate Number – Just a innocent discreptancy. Pay no attention.
    2. Born in Kenya Phamplet – Just an INNOCENT fact checking error by Obama’s publisist.
    3. Kenya Ambassador says he was born in Kenya – Oops! The Ambassador just innocently mispoke.
    4. Columbia University Dates mismatch – Pay no attention. Just some innocent garbage in some databases.
    5. Obama born at Queens then Kapoloni – Pay no attention. Just some innnocent reporter errors.

    I could go on Doc.

  56. avatar
    BillTheCat September 17, 2013 at 2:53 pm #

    John is still grabbing at straws I see.

  57. avatar
    Birther Weary September 17, 2013 at 3:00 pm #

    If john would just click Doc’s link, he’d see that even the Queen of the Birthers has changed her focus (such as it is) to “Review of Politics, Economics, Constitution, Law and World Affairs by Attorney and Doctor Orly Taitz”

    When even Orly Taitz knows the game is over, it’s time to just go away and sulk.

  58. avatar
    Rickey September 17, 2013 at 3:06 pm #

    john:
    “I think the 1890 part is just a typo or technical error.”

    Doc, how many times has that excuse been used when it comes to Obama?”I’ve lost count.

    John, how many times have you made idiotic comments? I’ve lost track.

    For your edification, here is what part of a real Lexis-Lexis report looks like. I have of course redacted the identifying information.

    RICHARD J XXXXXX LexID: 574350367 DOB: 6/1958
    xxx-xx-xxxx issued in New York between 1/1/1967 and 12/31/1968

    Note that the letters DOB (abbreviation for date of birth) appear before “6/1958.” The letters DOB do not appear on the Bounel database search, so the number 1890 is not necessarily a year of birth.

    Try to wrap this around your head. The Social Security Administration has determined that it has no record of a Social Security Number ever being issued to man named Harrison Bounel or Harry Bounel who was born in 1890. Therefore, Obama cannot possibly be using Bounel’s SSN, since Bounel never had one.

  59. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 17, 2013 at 3:10 pm #

    1. There is nothing whatever wrong with Obama’s birth certificate number.
    2-3 Neither of these persons have personal knowledge of what they might have said, so they don’t count whether they agree or disagree with official accounts.
    4. Never heard that one. Please document.
    5. Same as 2-3, but it wasn’t a reporter; it was a high school student.

    Basically birthers say: if somebody says they made a mistake, they were not making a mistake and if they verify that they were right, they are lying. That is, someone is speaking accurately if and only if it goes against Obama. A recipe for failure.

    You could go on, but you would not have one single thing that survives scrutiny.

    john:
    Come on Doc, every one of Obama’s discreptancy is explained by some INNOCENT mistake.Yea Right!We can keep going Doc….

    1.Birth Certificate Number – Just a innocent discreptancy.Pay no attention.
    2.Born in Kenya Phamplet – Just an INNOCENT fact checking error by Obama’s publisist.
    3.Kenya Ambassador says he was born in Kenya – Oops!The Ambassador just innocently mispoke.
    4.Columbia University Dates mismatch –Pay no attention.Just some innocent garbage in some databases.
    5.Obama born at Queens then Kapoloni – Pay no attention.Just some innnocent reporter errors.

    I could go on Doc.

  60. avatar
    Daniel September 17, 2013 at 3:23 pm #

    john:
    “I think the 1890 part is just a typo or technical error.”

    Doc, how many times has that excuse been used when it comes to Obama?”I’ve lost count.

    Not as many times as, “I don’t understand this, so therefore it must be fraud!!!!”

  61. avatar
    MARSHMAN September 17, 2013 at 3:28 pm #

    There was a Harry Bounel but he most liked never applied for SS#. Bounel/Obama are most likely a mistake in the website Henderson was on.

    As for Obama having a ct ss#, Obama should just come out and explain everything. Like the fudged selective service card. Has anyone ever seen one missing the “19”? Did ROMO start working there in 1980 or 1987?

    Was Obama really born in HI? Probably but they can not locate his BC so they found some hack to patch one together and they threw it out there.

    Obama has a big scar on his head. He never talks about this accident or surgery. Why is that?

    Obama should just lay everything on the table and just be honest. If he really did apply for grants under Barry Soetoro than just admit it.

    Obama could never admit to these things because it would unravel his life history and NULL AND VOID EVERYTHING HE HAS SIGNED!!

  62. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG September 17, 2013 at 3:41 pm #

    MARSHMAN:
    There wasa Harry Bounel but he most liked never applied for SS#. Bounel/Obama are most likely a mistake in the website Henderson was on.

    As for Obama having a ct ss#, Obama should just come out and explain everything. Like the fudged selective service card. Has anyone ever seen one missing the “19″? Did ROMO start working there in 1980 or 1987?

    Was Obama really born in HI? Probably but they can not locate his BC so they found some hack to patch one together and they threw it out there.

    Obama has a big scar on his head. He never talks about this accident or surgery. Why is that?

    Obama should just lay everything on the table and just be honest. If he really did apply for grants under Barry Soetoro than just admit it.

    Obama could never admit to these things because it would unravel his life history and NULL AND VOID EVERYTHING HE HAS SIGNED!!

    *Yawn*

  63. avatar
    gorefan September 17, 2013 at 3:43 pm #

    MARSHMAN: Did ROMO start working there in 1980 or 1987?

    The Selective Service card that was signed by Romo was produced in 2011. This is a screw up by birthers they thought it was the one produced in 1980.

    MARSHMAN: Has anyone ever seen one missing the “19″?

    There are other selective service cards where the entire outer parts of the stamp are missing and parts of the month are missing.

    MARSHMAN: Probably but they can not locate his BC

    This is just a made up scenario by the birthers. Hawaii has the BC and have verified it.

    MARSHMAN: Obama has a big scar on his head. He never talks about this accident or surgery. Why is that?

    Because he doesn’t have such a scar.

  64. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG September 17, 2013 at 3:45 pm #

    Hey Doc, if John is dead set on avoiding the questions asked, and is simply going to ctrl+v old birther poopies, is he ready for the ban pile?

  65. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 17, 2013 at 3:46 pm #

    MARSHMAN: Obama could never admit to these things because it would unravel his life history and NULL AND VOID EVERYTHING HE HAS SIGNED!!

    You forgot the Kenyan birth certificate but never fear…..Misha will be along in a moment to fill you in on that.

  66. avatar
    jayHG September 17, 2013 at 3:50 pm #

    john: I could go on Doc.

    I wish you would……you sound so delusional, you’re not even entertaining anymore.

  67. avatar
    alg September 17, 2013 at 3:52 pm #

    CarlOrcas: First: As Doc noted anyone earning income in the U.S. can get a Social Security number. No citizenship required.

    Second: Since the IRS and SS are quite aggressive in kicking back returns with names and numbers that don’t match their records how do you explain Obama using a phony number since 1977?

    Have the IRS and SS been in on the scam for 36 years?

    This is clearly the key point. It makes absolutely no sense that Obama would use someone else’s SSN on his own income tax return. Birther logic fails on that point alone.

  68. avatar
    Daniel September 17, 2013 at 4:02 pm #

    MARSHMAN:
    There wasa Harry Bounel but he most liked never applied for SS#. Bounel/Obama are most likely a mistake in the website Henderson was on.

    As for Obama having a ct ss#, Obama should just come out and explain everything. Like the fudged selective service card. Has anyone ever seen one missing the “19″? Did ROMO start working there in 1980 or 1987?

    Was Obama really born in HI? Probably but they can not locate his BC so they found some hack to patch one together and they threw it out there.

    Obama has a big scar on his head. He never talks about this accident or surgery. Why is that?

    Obama should just lay everything on the table and just be honest. If he really did apply for grants under Barry Soetoro than just admit it.

    Obama could never admit to these things because it would unravel his life history and NULL AND VOID EVERYTHING HE HAS SIGNED!!

    Why do you insist Obama provide you with information to which you are not entitled, based on fallacies you dreamed up, and for which you never cared enough to grill any previous President?

  69. avatar
    donna September 17, 2013 at 4:36 pm #

    MARSHMAN: BLAH BLAH

    YAWN!!!!!!!!!!

    are you NEW here??????????

    did you JUST fall off of a turnip truck????

  70. avatar
    JoZeppy September 17, 2013 at 4:41 pm #

    MARSHMAN: There was a Harry Bounel but he most liked never applied for SS#. Bounel/Obama are most likely a mistake in the website Henderson was on.

    Actually we very well may never know if there is or was a Harry Bounel. It’s a random name that appeared in one database for a brief time.

    MARSHMAN: As for Obama having a ct ss#, Obama should just come out and explain everything.

    1) There is no such thing as a CT ssn. They’re issued by the Fed government centrally, and even when they used state identifier codes, they were not perfect, nor was there any reason to change them if they made an error. It was just a relic of the past that hung around long after its reason for existence past….and how should President Obama explain something that he had no part in creating? He doesn’t have the first clue how or why that particular number was issued. He didn’t issue it!

    MARSHMAN: Like the fudged selective service card. Has anyone ever seen one missing the “19″?

    It’s a hand stamped post mark. I have seen countless hand stamped post marks missing part of the stamp. It’s a rubber stamp, subject to wear and tear, applied inconsistently by human beings. The variables involved here are staggering.

    MARSHMAN: Was Obama really born in HI? Probably but they can not locate his BC so they found some hack to patch one together and they threw it out there.

    Yes…the Republican Governor of Hawaii, who worked on the McCain campaign not only lied about it, but had one faked. I don’t see why more people don’t buy into that theory.

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Obama has a big scar on his head. He never talks about this accident or surgery. Why is that?

    Even if he did, why should he talk about it? How is it relevant to anything if he got a boo boo at some point in his life?

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Obama should just lay everything on the table and just be honest. If he really did apply for grants under Barry Soetoro than just admit it.

    Why should he have to answer for the truthfulness of an April Fools posting? Is he required to answer for everything anyone can conceive of, or is the April Fool posting the minimum standard? Should he also be required to deny being the second gunman on the grassy knoll too?

    MARSHMAN: Obama could never admit to these things because it would unravel his life history and NULL AND VOID EVERYTHING HE HAS SIGNED!!

    Well, everything else you said was wrong, so why not finish off with another statement that has no basis in fact, law, or sort of reality.

  71. avatar
    Crustacean September 17, 2013 at 4:53 pm #

    Hi JoZeppy

    FIFY, lest Andrew take offense…

    MARSHMAN: Obama has a big scar on his head. He never talks about this accident or surgery. Why is that?

    MARSHMAN: Obama should just lay everything on the table and just be honest. If he really did apply for grants under Barry Soetoro than just admit it.

  72. avatar
    AROD September 17, 2013 at 4:57 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Hey Doc, if John is dead set on avoiding the questions asked, and is simply going to ctrl+v old birther poopies, is he ready for the ban pile?

    I second that…

  73. avatar
    interestedbystander September 17, 2013 at 5:08 pm #

    CarlOrcas: First: As Doc noted anyone earning income in the U.S. can get a Social Security number. No citizenship required.

    You don’t even need to be working. I had a SSN when we spent a couple years living in CT when my husband was working in NY. We’re both UK citizens. I couldn’t work as I didn’t have a working visa – but had no trouble getting the SSN.

  74. avatar
    Bob September 17, 2013 at 5:27 pm #

    The story that Barack Obama stoled a Social Security number from a Russian immigrant named “Harry Bounel” is funny. Kudos to the Obot who invented it.

  75. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 17, 2013 at 6:24 pm #

    interestedbystander: You don’t even need to be working.I had a SSN when we spent a couple years living in CT when my husband was working in NY.We’re both UK citizens.I couldn’t work as I didn’t have a working visa – but had no trouble getting the SSN.

    Interesting. What did you use it for…..bank account or something like that?

  76. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG September 17, 2013 at 6:29 pm #

    Bob:
    The story that Barack Obama stoled a Social Security number from a Russian immigrant named “Harry Bounel” is funny.Kudos to the Obot who invented it.

    I think it was the unmedicated voices in Ocrazy’s head who made that one up.

  77. avatar
    Rickey September 17, 2013 at 6:34 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Interesting. What did you use it for…..bank account or something like that?

    I believe that she would have needed a SSN if she and her husband wanted to file a joint tax return.

  78. avatar
    Rickey September 17, 2013 at 6:38 pm #

    MARSHMAN:

    Obama could never admit to these things because it would unravel his life history and NULL AND VOID EVERYTHING HE HAS SIGNED!!

    I looked up “magic reset button” in the Constitution but I couldn’t find anything about it.

    Of course, if everything which Obama signed were declared null and void, it means that the Bush tax cuts expired in 2010 and we are going to have to dig deep to pay what we retroactively owe to the IRS.

  79. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 17, 2013 at 6:47 pm #

    Rickey: I believe that she would have needed a SSN if she and her husband wanted to file a joint tax return.

    That’s possible. Let’s see what she says.

  80. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 17, 2013 at 6:49 pm #

    Rickey: I looked up “magic reset button” in the Constitution but I couldn’t find anything about it.

    Yes, this is one of their biggest fantasies. They get pretty excited at turning Obama into the invisible man.

  81. avatar
    Curious George September 17, 2013 at 7:43 pm #

    The crazies are coming out of the woodwork. It’s time to push the delete button ( a single push of the button as required by Birthers.)

  82. avatar
    Ophelia September 17, 2013 at 7:54 pm #

    I have done a lot of research at sites like Ancestry.com on my boyfriend’s Jewish relatives who emigrated to New York from “Russia” in the decades between 1860 and 1900.

    First, they are all from what we now call Poland but what census takers referred to as Russia well into the early 1900s. that would explain Bounel’s non-Russian name. Russia was expelling a lot of Jews from a major Jewish stronghold in Poland at that time. Ancestry.com has links to a Jewish group that has records for many births and marriages for these Polish regions, but you have to figure out the Polish name to find the person.

    Second, many if the relatives, whose names we know, appear in different censuses with different names and/or birthdates but are clearly the same people. Kroll is sometimes Krull, Kruhl, Krohl, and even Croll. First names are way messed up.

    For those that lived in NY, Ancestry also has many censuses from the state at that time.

    I have also found ship manifests of arrivals in the 1890s (most via Hamburg, but not all). In addition, I have found naturalization records.

    Now, if this phantom of Orly’s existed by the name she calls him and was born around 1890 and living in the U.S. during World War I, he would have been required to register for the first draft round. 98% of men under 46 registered per Ancestry, so it is unlikely this 27 year old man would not have, and his records would be available at Ancestry with his real birthdate, but I have found nothing.

    Obviously, Hendershot’s record is wrong. But there does appear to be a Harry Bounell or something like that on one census. The fact that he appears on no other records suggests he left the country soon after (yet he is not on any manifests I have seen), he died, or he was a hermit draft dodger. in at least the first two scenarios, he would not have gotten a SSN.

    Most likely, the name on the census is not correct and it appears differently on later censuses. Orly will have to find out his real name for a start. That might lead her to his correct birthdate, and she could then use a FOIA to look for immigration or military records.

    But no matter what she finds, she will never tie him to Obama’s SSN and will never get any information about whether he had that SSN (I vote not) because the SSN belongs to a living person so they cannot disclose anything about the number, including whether a dead guy once used it. It is an active number. she might be able to get Bounel’s application if he or it ever existed, but she would never be told if he was assigned that number. She might jump to that conclusion if they did not tell her what number he was assigned, but that is not going to constitute evidence. Not that not having real evidence has ever stopped Orly.

  83. avatar
    justlw September 17, 2013 at 7:55 pm #

    MARSHMAN: Obama has a big scar on his head. He never talks about this accident or surgery. Why is that?

    The one shaped like a lightning bolt? All will become clear in time.

  84. avatar
    Northland10 September 17, 2013 at 7:58 pm #

    john:
    I guess Obama didn’t forge well.Birthers will smoke him out.

    They might do well if they lay off what they’re smoking.

  85. avatar
    misha marinsky September 17, 2013 at 8:26 pm #

    MARSHMAN: Was Obama really born in HI? Probably but they can not locate his BC so they found some hack to patch one together and they threw it out there.

    Obama has a big scar on his head. He never talks about this accident or surgery. Why is that?

    You have valid concerns, and I take them seriously, unlike some wiseguys here. Obama has a scar because of the primitive conditions Dr. A.Tari worked in, at the Mombasa hospital. I did an extensive ‘net search, and I found the Kenya BC you are looking for:

    Mombasa, Kenya BC here.

  86. avatar
    Rickey September 17, 2013 at 11:56 pm #

    Ophelia:

    Most likely, the name on the census is not correct and it appears differently on later censuses. Orly will have to find out his real name for a start. That might lead her to his correct birthdate, and she could then use a FOIA to look for immigration or military records.

    I have long doubted that “Bounel” is the correct spelling of the surname for the man listed in the 1940 census. For one thing, the Social Security Death Index has only one entry for a person with the surname “Bounel.” A nationwide search at whitepages.com turns up just one couple in Monroe, Louisiana with the surname “Bounel.” We are talking about a very rare surname, at least in the United States.

    But even if the name is correct, it doesn’t mean that he ever had a Social Security Number. His name doesn’t appear in the 1930 census, so he likely arrived in the U.S. between 1930 and 1940. And even if he was 50 years old in 1940, it doesn’t necessarily mean that he was born in 1890 – he could have been born in 1889 and still have been 50 years old when the census was taken. That possibility seems not to have occurred to Orly.

  87. avatar
    justlw September 18, 2013 at 12:55 am #

    Rickey: I have long doubted that “Bounel” is the correct spelling of the surname for the man listed in the 1940 census.

    Getting my money’s worth from that ancestry.com subscription again:

    I’m looking at the handwritten record from the 1940 US Census, and it clearly is written as “Bounel.” However, I know from looking at my own ancestors’ records that the census takers did not always accurately transcribe names.

    The full record says that Harry Bounel was a lodger of the Louis Julius family, at 915 Daly Avenue in the Bronx. He was listed as 50 years old, married (although his wife was not living there), and was a naturalized US citizen from Russia. His occupation was “helper” at a fruit store, and he had a 3rd grade education. He lived at the same address in 1935.

  88. avatar
    misha marinsky September 18, 2013 at 1:05 am #

    Ophelia: I have done a lot of research at sites like Ancestry.com on my boyfriend’s Jewish relatives who emigrated to New York from “Russia” in the decades between 1860 and 1900.

    Hi, Ophelia. How’s Shakespeare?

    ‘Tis in my memory lock’d,
    And you yourself shall keep the key of it.

    I’m Jewish, of Russian descent. Orly Taitz is a shonde and a meshuggener.

    Social Security did not become law until 1935. Google it.

  89. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 18, 2013 at 1:06 am #

    justlw: However, I know from looking at my own ancestors’ records that the census takers did not always accurately transcribe names.

    I couldn’t find my father’s family – five of them – in the 1930 census. They were there in 1920 and 1940.

    Come to find out the census taker transposed two letters in the family name in 1930. They lived in a small town – less than 100 people – and my grandfather was the local postal carrier so I assume the enumerator was an outsider who made a simple mistake.

  90. avatar
    justlw September 18, 2013 at 1:09 am #

    So I’m filling in the data, to see if I can build a more complete tree, and I find him already listed in someone else’s tree, to which one “Lisa Bourgoin La” has added a note:

    “your Harry Bounel seems to be the one whose’s social security number was stolen by obama. was it 042- 👿 👿 – 👿 👿 👿 👿 ? I am searching for an individual by the name of Harrison (Harry) J. Bounel, born in 1890 in Russia, immigrated to the U.S. in 1912. According to the 1940 Census he resided in Bronx at 912 Daly Street, and worked at a nearby fruit store of Sam Cohen. It is believed that he was in a retirement home or hospital in CT in 1977. If you have any information about Mr. Bounel, please, contact Orly Taitz at: Dr. Orly Taitz, ESQ 29839 Santa Margarita Parkway, Ste. 100 Rancho Santa Margarita, CA 92688 Tel.: 949-683-5411 Fax.: 949-766-7603 URL: orlytaitzesq.com E-mail: orly.taitz@gmail.com

    (The “Sam Cohen” inference is kind of interesting — unless Lisa has turned up additional info, this is based on Sam Cohen being listed in the 1940 census as a neighbor of the Louises, with an occupation of “Fruit Dealer”)

  91. avatar
    slash2k September 18, 2013 at 1:37 am #

    The census doesn’t even say that Bounel (Bormel, Bonnel, etc.) worked for Sam Cohen–it’s just Orly and the birthers leaping to conclusions.

    Bounel was a helper at a fruit store; Cohen was a fruit dealer and lived in the same building. There were probably more than one or two fruit dealers in the neighborhood, though.

    He did NOT live at the same address in 1935, however. The census says “same place” [meaning same city], not “same house.” See the instructions at the top of the column.

  92. avatar
    misha marinsky September 18, 2013 at 1:53 am #

    slash2k: Bounel was a helper at a fruit store; Cohen was a fruit dealer

    I can get it for you wholesale.

  93. avatar
    justlw September 18, 2013 at 2:00 am #

    slash2k:
    The census doesn’t even say that Bounel (Bormel, Bonnel, etc.) worked for Sam Cohen–it’s just Orly and the birthers leaping to conclusions.

    That was my intended point. Oh, Sam Cohen was from Russia, too, so that probably sealed the deal in their minds.

    He did NOT live at the same address in 1935, however. The census says “same place” [meaning same city], not “same house.” See the instructions at the top of the column.

    Ah, I’d never noticed that! (The instructions at the top say to use “Same house” for same residence, “Same place” for same city but not same residence. And for Our Harry, it says “Same place”.)

    Oh, and I can’t let this comment from Lisa the FM go without notice:

    It is believed that he was in a retirement home or hospital in CT in 1977.

    Because, you know, Connecticut. I sincerely doubt this is based on anything other than their fervent hopes and dreams.

  94. avatar
    Lupin September 18, 2013 at 3:36 am #

    Re the imaginary scar…

    Brain transplant, anyone?

  95. avatar
    The Magic M September 18, 2013 at 5:39 am #

    Rickey: A nationwide search at whitepages.com turns up just one couple in Monroe, Louisiana with the surname “Bounel.” We are talking about a very rare surname, at least in the United States

    “Bounel” always sounded French to me. Orly still hasn’t explained how “Harrison” is Russian or Moldovan.
    The combination of English first name and French last name would lead me to believe whoever made up this name was probably living in New Orleans. 😉

  96. avatar
    The Magic M September 18, 2013 at 5:41 am #

    justlw: Because, you know, Connecticut. I sincerely doubt this is based on anything other than their fervent hopes and dreams.

    “It is believed” is propagandaspeak for “I have made this up with no evidence to support it”. I remember reading an article about this signature use of the passive voice.

  97. avatar
    interestedbystander September 18, 2013 at 6:56 am #

    CarlOrcas: Interesting. What did you use it for…..bank account or something like that?

    Yes certainly for the bank a/c- can’t remember if I needed it for anything else, it was nearly 20 years ago.

  98. avatar
    HistorianDude September 18, 2013 at 8:30 am #

    slash2k wrote: “Bounel was a helper at a fruit store; Cohen was a fruit dealer and lived in the same building.”

    My grandfather also listed his profession as “fruit dealer” in the census records and on his Declaration of Intention. And he did in fact have a store front at which you could find two vaguely fruit-like things; grape leaves and “babbalucci” (snails). His actual profession at the time was running the numbers racket for northwestern PA.

    Just an interesting diversion.

  99. avatar
    HistorianDude September 18, 2013 at 8:38 am #

    Antigonish
    by Hughes Mearns

    Yesterday, upon the stair,
    I met a man who wasn’t there
    He wasn’t there again today
    I wish, I wish he’d go away…

    When I came home last night at three
    The man was waiting there for me
    But when I looked around the hall
    I couldn’t see him there at all!
    Go away, go away, don’t you come back any more!
    Go away, go away, and please don’t slam the door… (slam!)

    Last night I saw upon the stair
    A little man who wasn’t there
    He wasn’t there again today
    Oh, how I wish he’d go away

  100. avatar
    misha marinsky September 18, 2013 at 9:05 am #

    HistorianDude: His actual profession at the time was running the numbers racket for northwestern PA.

    My grandfather listed his occupation as a rabbi. He actually was a bootlegger, with a still in his basement.

  101. avatar
    misha marinsky September 18, 2013 at 9:08 am #

    Lupin: Brain transplant, anyone?

    We had an agreement. Thanks. NOT

  102. avatar
    Woodrowfan September 18, 2013 at 10:51 am #

    so of the rw Xtian birthers claim the supposed scar is from having his horn(s) cut off. seriously.

  103. avatar
    misha marinsky September 18, 2013 at 11:02 am #

    Woodrowfan: so of the rw Xtian birthers claim the supposed scar is from having his horn(s) cut off.seriously.

    Seriously. This gets crazier by the day.

  104. avatar
    Lupin September 18, 2013 at 11:58 am #

    Out of curiosity I searched for “Bounel” in the online Paris phonebook and couldn’t find any. None in Marseilles either. Only 2 turned up in the Lyons phonebook. So it’s obviously not a very common name here.

    There are however 3 Obamas in Paris (the same Cécile Obama is listed at two different addresses) and 1 near Lyons.

  105. avatar
    Rickey September 18, 2013 at 12:21 pm #

    The Magic M: “Bounel” always sounded French to me. Orly still hasn’t explained how “Harrison” is Russian or Moldovan.

    I believe it was Misha who said that he has never known a Jew with the first name “Harrison.” Lots of Harrys, but no Harrisons. Harrison Ford’s maternal grandfather was Jewish, but his name was Harry Nidelman, not Harrison Nidelman.

    Of course, in OrlyWorld the Harry Bounel in the 1940 census has to be the same person as the mysterious Harrison Bounel who somehow became associated with Obama’s property in Chicago.

  106. avatar
    dunstvangeet September 18, 2013 at 2:16 pm #

    john: 1.Birth Certificate Number – Just a innocent discreptancy.Pay no attention.

    There’s no discrepency. You make the assumption that the birth certificate numbers are an absolute chronologically assigned. That is not the case. Neither Virginia Sununu, Stig Waidelich, or The Ah’nee certificate that was released follow that convention. I’ll give you all the numbers and the date that they were born.

    Ah nee – 09945 – August 23rd, Accepted/Filed Aug. 24th
    Nordyke, Susan – 10637 – August 5th, Accepted/Filed Aug. 11th
    Nordyke, Gretchen – 10638 – August 5th, Accepted/Filed Aug. 11th
    Obama, Barack – 10641 – August 4th, Accepted/Filed Aug. 8th
    Waidelich, Stig – 10920 – August 5th/Accepted/Filed Aug. 8th
    Sunahara, Virginia – 11080 – August 4th, Accepted/Filed Aug. 10th

    Neither Ah’nee’s, Sunahara, Waidelich’s, or Obama’s fit into your “Absolute chronological order” that you insist that it follows.

    5.Obama born at Queens then Kapoloni – Pay no attention.Just some innnocent reporter errors.

    Yes, a highschool newspaper put out there that Obama was born at Queen’s Hospital. They got that information from Wikipedia (which at the time, had it erroniously, because the editor guessed and got it wrong). You honestly believe that a bunch of High School Students doing a newspaper got it right, and that this is a discrepency, rather than the simple explaination that the high school student writing the story got the fact from a source like Wikipedia which at the time had it as Queen’s hospital, because someone made a guess and got it wrong?

  107. avatar
    MattR September 18, 2013 at 2:34 pm #

    dunstvangeet: You honestly believe that a bunch of High School Students doing a newspaper got it right, and that this is a discrepency, rather than the simple explaination that the high school student writing the story got the fact from a source like Wikipedia which at the time had it as Queen’s hospital, because someone made a guess and got it wrong?

    You are forgetting that the high school students were not part of “the system” and therefore had not been coopted and corrupted by the massive Obama conspiracy. Because of this, they were able to “get it right” when everybody else had been suckered in by the lies and forgeries.

  108. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 18, 2013 at 3:05 pm #

    MattR: You are forgetting that the high school students were not part of “the system” and therefore had not been coopted and corrupted by the massive Obama conspiracy.Because of this, they were able to “get it right” when everybody else had been suckered in by the lies and forgeries.

    With apologies to Dustin Hoffman and “The Graduate”, 1967:

    Mr. McGuire: I just want to say one word to you. Just one word.

    Benjamin: Yes, sir.

    Mr. McGuire: Are you listening?

    Benjamin: Yes, I am.

    Mr. McGuire: Plastics. Soros.

    Benjamin: Exactly how do you mean?

  109. avatar
    richCares September 18, 2013 at 3:11 pm #

    “Yes, a highschool newspaper put out there that Obama was born at Queen’s Hospital. ”
    I am from Hawaii, there are 2 Queens Hospitals in Hawaii
    1. Queen Kapio’lani
    2. Queen Emma
    these were often confused, for example my daughter was born at Queen Kapio’lani, her Aunty went to the wrong Queens to see her niece, common error
    note #1 Kapio’lani has a maternity wing

  110. avatar
    CarlOrcas September 18, 2013 at 3:21 pm #

    richCares:
    “Yes, a highschool newspaper put out there that Obama was born at Queen’s Hospital. ”
    I am from Hawaii, there are 2 Queens Hospitals in Hawaii
    1. Queen Kapio’lani
    2. Queen Emma
    these were often confused, for example my daughter was born at Queen Kapio’lani, her Aunty went to the wrong Queens to see her niece, commonerror
    note #1 Kapio’lani has a maternity wing

    Wow! This goes back even further than we thought. Queen Emma died in 1885 and Queen Kapio’lani in 1899. All the pieces of the puzzle were being put in place in the 19th century.

    These folks are good. Too bad they couldn’t forge a better birth certificate.

  111. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny September 18, 2013 at 6:25 pm #

    Lupin: Out of curiosity I searched for “Bounel” in the online Paris phonebook and couldn’t find any. None in Marseilles either. Only 2 turned up in the Lyons phonebook. So it’s obviously not a very common name here.

    Ah, but you are all forgetting that Orly Taitz filters everything through Cyrillic. Bunel is transcribed the same way as Bounel: Бунель. Would not be surprised if Bounel was just a descendant of a Bunel family who migrated to Russia and then spent a few generations there.

    Now, Orly will probably find it very suspicious that the most famous bearer of the name, the actress Marie Bunel, was born in 1961 according to French wikipedia and in 1964 in English wikipedia. And a well-known Russian film site also has 1964:
    http://lostfilm.info/person/274313/

    Very suspicious. Of course, as I remember well, another lady once made herself two years younger on wikipedia. And the Russian film site maybe trusted English wikipedia too much, as one young reporter once did about Obama’s birth place.

  112. avatar
    misha marinsky September 18, 2013 at 6:47 pm #

    Paul Pieniezny: And the Russian film site maybe trusted English wikipedia too much

    And don’t forget that left wing director, Luis Bunuel. He’s in on it, too.

  113. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny September 18, 2013 at 6:47 pm #

    I found a Russian site that explains the Russian family name Бунель.
    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ufolog.ru%2Fnames%2Forder%2F%25D0%2591%25D1%2583%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B5%25D0%25BB%25D1%258C&act=url

    Does not look Jewish. Nor Moldavian.

  114. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny September 18, 2013 at 7:11 pm #

    misha marinsky: And don’t forget that left wing director, Luis Bunuel. He’s in on it, too.

    Sorry, but that is Бунюэль, completely different. In the meantime, I found another French Bunel who betrayed NATO secrets to the Serbs and a photo of Marie Bunel and Gerard Depardieu, sitting very close and obviously discussing his planned defection. Very suspicious all that.

    Returning to the sanity side: any census records for Harrison Bunel or Harrison Boonel?

  115. avatar
    misha marinsky September 18, 2013 at 7:38 pm #

    Paul Pieniezny: Returning to the sanity side

    Not so fast: Is this Bunn close enough? – http://tinyurl.com/m6grgo9

  116. avatar
    jayHG September 18, 2013 at 8:02 pm #

    Woodrowfan:
    so of the rw Xtian birthers claim the supposed scar is from having his horn(s) cut off.seriously.

    People in my office just now turned to look at me because I was laughing so loudly when I read this!!

  117. avatar
    Northland10 September 18, 2013 at 9:46 pm #

    justlw: The full record says that Harry Bounel was a lodger of the Louis Julius family, at 915 Daly Avenue in the Bronx. He was listed as 50 years old, married (although his wife was not living there), and was a naturalized US citizen from Russia. His occupation was “helper” at a fruit store,

    He lodged with Julius and sold oranges?

  118. avatar
    misha marinsky September 18, 2013 at 9:59 pm #

    Northland10: He lodged with Julius and sold oranges?

    He had a side income as a juggler. He practiced with old oranges.

  119. avatar
    The Magic M September 19, 2013 at 4:02 am #

    Rickey: Of course, in OrlyWorld the Harry Bounel in the 1940 census has to be the same person as the mysterious Harrison Bounel who somehow became associated with Obama’s property in Chicago.

    To give her at least a little credit, she’s drawn that conclusion because the Harry Bo**el in the census may have been born in 1890 which Orly claims is associated with Obama’s SSN, so she combined two data points and not just the name.
    The real issue is that she relies on data points which are at best unreliable and at worst birther plants (as the Harrison Bounel SSN record seems to have been created after Obama’s SSN became public).

  120. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG September 19, 2013 at 12:20 pm #

    I regularly see some of Orly’s supporters comparing her to Joan D’arc.
    I’m guessing they’re forgetting the whole “She’s hearing voices! Lets burn her as a witch!” part of the story.

  121. avatar
    Crustacean September 19, 2013 at 12:57 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: I regularly see some of Orly’s supporters comparing her to Joan D’arc.
    I’m guessing they’re forgetting the whole “She’s hearing voices! Lets burn her as a witch!” part of the story.

    No, they fully embrace that part of the story. Remember, these are people who see themselves as persecuted truth tellers for Jesus. They are convinced Obama wants to burn them at the stake.

    At FOTM, the blog owner’s sidekick calls herself “Joan D’arc.” She starts every one of her posts with an affirmation, like, “Thank you, Dr. Eowyn, for that unbelievably Earth-shattering expose proving that Obama’s scar is the result of his having sawn off his horns…”

  122. avatar
    Crustacean September 19, 2013 at 1:02 pm #

    Northland10: He lodged with Julius and sold oranges?

    HA!! I see what you done there!! 😀

  123. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG September 19, 2013 at 3:41 pm #

    Crustacean: No, they fully embrace that part of the story.Remember, these are people who see themselves as persecuted truth tellers for Jesus.They are convinced Obama wants to burn them at the stake.

    At FOTM, the blog owner’s sidekick calls herself “Joan D’arc.”She starts every one of her posts with an affirmation, like, “Thank you, Dr. Eowyn, for that unbelievably Earth-shattering expose proving that Obama’s scar is the result of his having sawn off his horns…”

    Yikes! To call that out of touch with reality is a gross understatement…