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The occasional open thread: alien probing edition

Place your Obama conspiracy comments and probing questions that don’t fit the current articles here. This thread will close in two weeks.

144 Responses to The occasional open thread: alien probing edition

  1. avatar
    Slartibartfast November 28, 2013 at 2:22 am #

    Doc,

    Out of curiosity, are there any birthers who have posted here in the past who are not currently in moderation?

  2. avatar
    ZixiOfIx November 28, 2013 at 3:25 am #

    If Mr. Smith goes forward with his lawsuit, won’t he be required by the court to show exactly how he got the document in question, including provenance?

    Plane tickets, credit card receipts, bank statements, passports, witnesses, visa applications, dated hotel and travel-related receipts, etc.?

    After all, proving damages is integral to a suit of this nature.

  3. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 28, 2013 at 8:34 am #

    There are only 17 people total in moderation.

    Just off hand I can think of a number of birther former commenters who are not in moderation. Mario Apuzzo used to post here quite a bit was never in moderation, also Jerry Collette, butterdezillion and Bob Gard.

    Some birthers have posted here only a few times and are not in moderation: Sam Sewell, Dean Haskins, David Farrar, Dr. Ron Polland and Orly Taitz.

    Slartibartfast: Out of curiosity, are there any birthers who have posted here in the past who are not currently in moderation?

  4. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 28, 2013 at 9:06 am #

    If Smith files the suit, I think it would be for one of two reasons:

    1) To get money from a settlement, because the case would be cheaper for defendants to settle than to defend. A publisher might do that, but I cannot imagine President Obama settling.

    2) To enhance Smith’s celebrity in the birther community.

    Under the first theory, there would be no discovery. In the second, the Defense would try to get the case dismissed before discovery to hold down costs. I don’t have a clear reason why the case should be dismissed (maybe an attorney would). So assuming the thing went to discovery:

    Smith is going to want source material on the Kapi’olani certificate, and to subpoena that document. If he got it, he would be a celebrity. The opposition will likely focus on the whether or not there ever was a $3m deal to begin with. Digging into the POSFKBC itself sounds expensive, and there’s no likelihood of being able to recover those costs.

    The court isn’t going to require him to produce something unless the opposing party asks for it.

    ZixiOfIx: If Mr. Smith goes forward with his lawsuit, won’t he be required by the court to show exactly how he got the document in question, including provenance?

  5. avatar
    Jim November 28, 2013 at 9:13 am #

    Happy Thanksgiving all! I give thanks for the birthers, who have shown the world what paranoia, hate, bigotry, and ignorance look like. May their turkey be as unsatisfying as their misplaced belief in the CCP.

  6. avatar
    US Citizen November 28, 2013 at 9:27 am #

    My 2 cents is that this site now exists as a social gathering or as one for those that get a kick of out always being right.
    If it ceased now, it would serve well as an archive.
    A highly dense collective covering every angle birthers have tried.
    Perhaps there’s better ways to search and disseminate the information, but birthers have tried every possible angle and always lost.
    We’ve correctly and exhaustively indicated the legal reasons for their failure with every attempt.

    So at this point we’ve always been right.
    Obama’s been president 5 years and birthers still attempt their childish attempts. They won’t stop.
    But we then with countless Phds and masters degree holders come out to provide lengthy answers.
    It’s starting to look like birthers are capable of least one ability and that’s to cause a bunch of highly intelligent people to take their bait and write detailed rebuttals.
    This wasn’t so in the past, but we’re definitely being played as suckers at this point.
    I think talking amongst ourselves is fine, but referrals to links that have already covered a particular issue is the direction the blog should go now.
    Friendly social posts and pointers to already settled law would be more desirable than writing more and more about how dumb birthers are.

  7. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 28, 2013 at 9:38 am #

    America’s toughest sheriff provides prisoners with America’s crummiest Thanksgiving Day meal.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/27/joe-arpaio-thanksgiving_n_4351729.html2

  8. avatar
    Curious George November 28, 2013 at 9:54 am #

    Jim: Happy Thanksgiving all!

    Yes, Happy Thanksgiving to you all! Thanks for a wonderful learning experience. I’ve enjoyed the comments, the wisdom, and the humor. John could learn a lot here, if he only would take the time to read and think about what has been written on this forum. Well done!

  9. avatar
    The Magic M November 28, 2013 at 10:00 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Smith is going to want source material on the Kapi’olani certificate, and to subpoena that document. If he got it, he would be a celebrity.

    Doesn’t work that way. Otherwise, if I wanted to see any document, I could just make my own rendition of it, find a buddy who will claim he wanted to pay me $500 but bailed out when he heard my document wasn’t the real thing, sue whoever holds the real document and DISCOVERY.

    The authenticity of Obama’s real BC is irrelevant to the case; Smith would have to prove

    (1) his Obama BC is real *and*

    (2) someone actually had the $3 million to pay for the alleged deal *and*

    (3) this someone was reasonably detracted from going through with the deal by some comments on a website.

    He’s going to fail on at least two of those counts (#1 and #2). Even if, arguendo, Obama’s Hawaiian BC was a forgery, it would not have had any influence on #1 and #2, therefore there is no need for discovery into Obama’s records here.

    Dr. Conspiracy: Digging into the POSFKBC itself sounds expensive, and there’s no likelihood of being able to recover those costs.

    The defense wouldn’t need to “dig into it”, they can just deny it’s legit and plaintiff would have to prove otherwise which he can’t. (It doesn’t work by Smith logic “if I can prove the Hawaiian BC is false, mine’s automatically legit” or “these other documents I have are legit, therefore my Kenyan BC is too”.)

  10. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 28, 2013 at 10:17 am #

    Perceptive.

    US Citizen: My 2 cents is that this site now exists as a social gathering or as one for those that get a kick of out always being right.
    If it ceased now, it would serve well as an archive.

  11. avatar
    Arthur November 28, 2013 at 10:59 am #

    Jim:
    Happy Thanksgiving all!I give thanks for the birthers, who have shown the world what paranoia, hate, bigotry, and ignorance look like.May their turkey be as unsatisfying as their misplaced belief in the CCP.

    By hate and bigotry, you must be referring to Birther Report exchanges like this:

    “I notice none of you are wishing each other a Happy Thanksgiving. I guess birthers aren’t happy people.”

    “i would have a happy thanksgiving if you cut your head off and stuffed it up your ass, you effin turkey go blow your mother.”

    Charming.

  12. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 28, 2013 at 12:28 pm #

    Why doesn’t it work that way?

    If the document contains a trade secret or for some reason the defendant can show that the subpoena creates an unreasonable burden, then there are grounds for objection to the subpoena, but at least a copy of the Kapi’olani certificate isn’t hard to produce, and not a burden.

    The authenticity of Obama’s birth certificate is germane to the question of whether Smith’s POSFKBC is genuine. Discovery comes before weighing the facts.

    The Magic M: Doesn’t work that way. Otherwise, if I wanted to see any document, I could just make my own rendition of it, find a buddy who will claim he wanted to pay me $500 but bailed out when he heard my document wasn’t the real thing, sue whoever holds the real document and DISCOVERY.

    The authenticity of Obama’s real BC is irrelevant to the case; Smith would have to prove

    (1) his Obama BC is real *and*

    (2) someone actually had the $3 million to pay for the alleged deal *and*

    (3) this someone was reasonably detracted from going through with the deal by some comments on a website.

  13. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG November 28, 2013 at 12:56 pm #

    Lucas also wants a pony!
    Oh wait, that’s Orly.
    Birther reports latest headline gives me a chuckle “IBD goes there: Blah blah Obama blah blah blah!”.
    It makes me chuckle, because they keep bringing up these “Never heard of em!” news sources, as if they’re well known, household names.

  14. avatar
    Curious George November 28, 2013 at 1:10 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Lucas also wants a pony!Oh wait, that’s Orly.Birther reports latest headline gives me a chuckle “IBD goes there: Blah blah Obama blah blah blah!”.It makes me chuckle, because they keep bringing up these “Never heard of em!” news sources, as if they’re well known, household names.

    Irritable Bowel Disorder…..?

  15. avatar
    Daniel November 28, 2013 at 3:07 pm #

    Identifiable Buffalo Dung?

  16. avatar
    nbc November 28, 2013 at 3:52 pm #

    Educating Fitzpatrick, Rondeau and Orly on the TN rules regarding the Grand Jury… Once again…

    Hint: Rule 6 clearly describes the foreperson to be appointed separately from the jurors.

    Additional Hint: Court rulings have agreed with this interpretation

    Additional Hint: 2011-2013 have seen TN bills introduced to change this but they appear to have failed in committee

    Can these people not do the minimal research that would reduce their embarrassments? Or in case of poor Walt, jail time?…

    In fact in 2012 it was ruled that even though the rules for selecting the Jurors was not followed, there was no evidence of fraud.

    Walt’s necessity defense requires that there was a crime and that there was imminent harm… Good luck with that argument…

  17. avatar
    Reality Check November 28, 2013 at 4:38 pm #

    nbc

    I think you found the Tennessee case law on this in 2009. Sharon Rondeau is half way there now. She may actually figure it out by 2017. 😆

  18. avatar
    nbc November 28, 2013 at 5:08 pm #

    Reality Check: I think you found the Tennessee case law on this in 2009. Sharon Rondeau is half way there now. She may actually figure it out by 2017. 😆

    Yes, I have been trying to help out Walt and later Sharon on this and other confusions…

    Sadly enough they appear to be unwilling or unable to learn.

  19. avatar
    CarlOrcas November 28, 2013 at 5:36 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    America’s toughest sheriff provides prisoners with America’s crummiest Thanksgiving Day meal.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/27/joe-arpaio-thanksgiving_n_4351729.html2

    He’s been pushing the envelope with food for quite a while. I wonder if he’s trying to get a rise out of Judge Snow.

    Not sure if the judge’s order could cover inmate food but it certainly is symptomatic of the way Arpaio operates.

  20. avatar
    Boysmom4 November 28, 2013 at 8:55 pm #

    I am a frequent visitor to your website but a first time poster.

    I post on a regular basis to the “One and Only birth Certificate” thread on the Hannity.com website.

    I appreciate the information I have gathered from here and use this information (I credit this website as my source) as often as possible. My current argument is so over the top it’s leaving me speechless.

    The current argument started when a poster referenced the Mia Maria Pope radio interview. He used her comments to say this proved Obama was a homosexual, drug addict prostitute that went by the name Soetoro.

    When I referenced the high school memories from his classmates that confirmed his name was Obama and presented the pictures shown, he made (and continues to claim) that the pictures are not of Obama but an imposter because Obama is a light skinned black man and these pictures show a dark skinned teenager.

    Typing these comments, it almost seems like it could be a joke but it’s not. I have been arguing with this person for over 2 years now and it’s gotten to be an obsession with me.

    Does anyone have anything I can add to this argument? I would really appreciate it!

  21. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 28, 2013 at 9:01 pm #

    Some of those pictures are from high-school yearbooks. Are they saying that an imposter named Obama attended Punahou school, or exactly what?

    Try to get this person to make a time link for you, a coherent narrative of who did what when over the first 20 years of the President’s life. (Birthers won’t do this, so you can use their silence as refutation.)

    Then poke holes in it.

    Boysmom4: When I referenced the high school memories from his classmates that confirmed his name was Obama and presented the pictures shown, he made (and continues to claim) that the pictures are not of Obama but an imposter because Obama is a light skinned black man and these pictures show a dark skinned teenager.

  22. avatar
    Boysmom4 November 28, 2013 at 9:18 pm #

    Yes he is saying there is another Barack Obama. Crazy stuff, isn’t it?

    He also goes on a tangent about the Basketball numbers that Obama wears on his uniform as proof that since the numbers are different in the yearbook pictures, that can’t be him.

    I’ve tried to poke all kinds of holes, tried being nice, tried being rude, tried everything to no avail.

    I guess the only solution is to walk away. But I’m the type of person who always has to be right and this time I know I am.

  23. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 28, 2013 at 9:53 pm #

    Well, ask him to read the book “Our Friend Barry: Classmates’ Recollections of Barack Obama and Punahou School.” A dozen classmates don’t seem to have noticed the substitution.

    Sometimes you do have to walk away, but before doing so be sure to say “you’re a complete idiot.”

    Boysmom4: Yes he is saying there is another Barack Obama. Crazy stuff, isn’t it?

    He also goes on a tangent about the Basketball numbers that Obama wears on his uniform as proof that since the numbers are different in the yearbook pictures, that can’t be him.

  24. avatar
    Slartibartfast November 28, 2013 at 10:10 pm #

    The only actual reference (that I know of anyway) to “Barry Soetoro” is from the registration book of the Catholic school that President Obama attended in Indonesia. Birthers use this as a springboard to assume that he was adopted by Lolo Soetoro, and, coupled with his citizenship being listed as “Indonesian”, they leap to the conclusion that he obtained Indonesian citizenship and thereby lost his US citizenship (which they claim he never had in the first place, but that’s another argument…).

    There are a few small problems with this. According to Indonesian law, President Obama could only be granted citizenship via adoption if he appeared in front of an Indonesian official at Lolo Soetoro’s house before his 5th birthday and he didn’t leave Hawai’i until after his 5th birthday. Furthermore, if he had been adopted, it is highly unlikely that he would change his name to “Soetoro” as, in the Muslim culture, this is considered disrespectful to the biological father’s family. Also, even if he obtained Indonesian citizenship, there is no way for a minor to lose their US citizenship (Perkins v. Elg). Finally, the school register list his place of birth as Hawai’i—further confirmation that he has always been a natural born US citizen.

    On the other hand, in Indonesia, children have a Constitutional right to an education, so it would be quite natural for Mr. Soetoro and Dr. Dunham to list young Barack under his stepfather’s name to make claiming Indonesian citizenship unremarkable. Since they would have likely needed to show the school his birth certificate (to establish his age, if nothing else), his birthplace being listed as Hawai’i is circumstantial evidence that he had a Hawai’ian BC back then that was considered valid.

    References for most of the statements I made can be found in the first three links on this birther mythbusting page on the Bad Fiction blog.

    Your birther might now even know that this is where the “Barry Soetoro” myth started, but this is where the idea would trace back to. It is also the foundation of the Pakistani travel myth (the birthers believe that President Obama traveled to Pakistan on an Indonesian passport because… um… you’ll have to ask a birther why they believe that…). Adding one plus one and coming up with kumquat (as birthers tend to do), they put this together and argue that President Obama, even if he was originally natural born, lost his US citizenship by the affirmative act of traveling to Pakistan on an Indonesian passport after his 18th birthday.

    Hope that helps—none of it will do the slightest bit of good in trying to get your birther to accept the truth. As for the attempts to smear President Obama by painting him as a homosexual, I would treat them as blatant projection. It seems likely that anyone that concerned about “the gay” is probably repressing something.

    Boysmom4:
    I am a frequent visitor to your website but a first time poster.

    I post on a regular basis to the “One and Only birth Certificate” thread on the Hannity.com website.

    I appreciate the information I have gathered from here and use this information (I credit this website as my source) as often as possible.My current argument is so over the top it’s leaving me speechless.

    The current argument started when a poster referenced the Mia Maria Pope radio interview.He used her comments to say this proved Obama was a homosexual, drug addict prostitute that went by the name Soetoro.

    When I referenced the high school memories from his classmates that confirmed his name was Obama and presented the pictures shown, he made (and continues to claim) that the pictures are not of Obama but an imposter because Obama is a light skinned black man and these pictures show a dark skinned teenager.

    Typing these comments, it almost seems like it could be a joke but it’s not.I have been arguing with this person for over 2 years now and it’s gotten to be an obsession with me.

    Does anyone have anything I can add to this argument?I would really appreciate it!

  25. avatar
    aarrgghh November 28, 2013 at 11:08 pm #

    Boysmom4: Does anyone have anything I can add to this argument? I would really appreciate it!

    there’s no winning an argument with an idiot, but here’s how to end one with a birther.

  26. avatar
    Joey November 28, 2013 at 11:52 pm #

    Boysmom4:
    I am a frequent visitor to your website but a first time poster.

    I post on a regular basis to the “One and Only birth Certificate” thread on the Hannity.com website.

    I appreciate the information I have gathered from here and use this information (I credit this website as my source) as often as possible.My current argument is so over the top it’s leaving me speechless.

    The current argument started when a poster referenced the Mia Maria Pope radio interview.He used her comments to say this proved Obama was a homosexual, drug addict prostitute that went by the name Soetoro.

    When I referenced the high school memories from his classmates that confirmed his name was Obama and presented the pictures shown, he made (and continues to claim) that the pictures are not of Obama but an imposter because Obama is a light skinned black man and these pictures show a dark skinned teenager.

    Typing these comments, it almost seems like it could be a joke but it’s not.I have been arguing with this person for over 2 years now and it’s gotten to be an obsession with me.

    Does anyone have anything I can add to this argument?I would really appreciate it!

    There is a YouTube video put together by one of Barack Obama’s Punahou School classmates where she shows all of the pictures of him in their high school yearbooks from 1976, 1977 and 1978, page by page and photo by photo.
    Search for the video at You Tube under the title Obama Yearbook 1976-77-78 Detailed New Obama Images.
    I notice that the most recent comment on this video is from someone named Kevin Davidson! 🙂

  27. avatar
    Rickey November 29, 2013 at 1:35 am #

    ZixiOfIx:
    If Mr. Smith goes forward with his lawsuit, won’t he be required by the court to show exactly how he got the document in question, including provenance?

    First he has to state a claim. Smith makes various allegations in his complaint, but even if they are true none of the actions by the defendants constitute a tort. The authors and publlsher of the book do not owe any legal duty to Lucas Smith. Even if the book caused a deal to fall apart, the authors and publisher can’t be held liable for it because there is no evidence that they knew about the deal.

  28. avatar
    Benji Franklin November 29, 2013 at 2:13 am #

    Boysmom4: When I referenced the high school memories from his classmates that confirmed his name was Obama and presented the pictures shown, he made (and continues to claim) that the pictures are not of Obama but an imposter because Obama is a light skinned black man and these pictures show a dark skinned teenager.

    Typing these comments, it almost seems like it could be a joke but it’s not. I have been arguing with this person for over 2 years now and it’s gotten to be an obsession with me.

    Don’t feel bad. Such Birthers who deny any Obama- legitimizing reality, are exploiting a convention of polite society by violating it! That is the obligation well-intended persons have to society, to converse in a way that productively reveals and then honors a sensible pursuit of truth. These people who insist that willful ignorance and hate are reason enough to substitute their twisted reality for the one that emerges from the sincere contemplation of reality by well-informed persons, are using the power of the lunatic to make the rest of us uncomfortable, because they instinctively know they cannot prevail by conventional, sane argument.

    Sane people routinely shudder at lunatic behavior, and are tempted to try to truncate such behavior by revealing the crazy-claim disproving reality to the lunatic Birther. Alas, the Birther will not be set right, or cured, or convinced of the hatefulness of his/her ways, by simply hearing the conventional, and overwhelmingly evidenced truth.

    They would lose their last bit of power if they acknowledged those aspects of reality which make their anti-Obama claims, transparently absurd. So they simply double down on denying reality. No sensible thing you can say or write will make an Orly Taitz admit the error of her ways, or even become aware of most of them.

  29. avatar
    Rickey November 29, 2013 at 2:22 am #

    Boysmom4:

    He also goes on a tangent about the Basketball numbers that Obama wears on his uniform as proof that since the numbers are different in the yearbook pictures, that can’t be him.

    I have seen photos of Obama wearing a white basketball jersey with the number 23 on it and a dark basketball jersey with the number 25 on it.

    When I played high school basketball in the sixties my home uniform and road uniform had different numbers. It’s also possible that the photos are from different years. It was not unusual for players to change uniform numbers from one year to the next.

  30. avatar
    Keith November 29, 2013 at 2:55 am #

    Boysmom4: I’ve tried to poke all kinds of holes, tried being nice, tried being rude, tried everything to no avail.

    I guess the only solution is to walk away. But I’m the type of person who always has to be right and this time I know I am.

    He’s just trolling you and you are obliging. It doesn’t matter what you say, your ‘colleague’ will automatically say something different. He’s not actually debating, he’s just pushing buttons.

    Remember the TV show ‘West Wing’? One of the characters would occasionally retreat to his office and begin a game of bouncing a ball off the wall and catching it. When asked about it he said ‘it is fun for a while but you can never win because you always get tired before the wall does.

    You are the ball tosser and your ‘colleague’ is the wall. I hope you get as much insight as Toby does.

    Toby’s Finest Moment

  31. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 29, 2013 at 3:18 am #

    I think the publisher is definitely off the hook (see Alm v. Van Nostrand Reinhold North Eastern Reporter, Second Series, Volume 480, p. 1263 (Appellate Court of Illinois, 1985)), but that case (where there was an allegation that someone was injured by following a how-to book) was allowed to proceed against the author.

    A book about current events is not the same thing as a “how-to” book. I don’t know enough about the field to know the relevant cases for other kinds of books. If there is tort liability it would be negligence of a “duty of care” for fact checking

    One curious thing is that the suit really doesn’t accuse the authors of negligence (as far as I found) nor intentional wrongdoing. So that only leaves President Obama, and he is clearly not liable for what some 3rd party told the authors (no proximate cause).

    So if I have this right, the case might be dismissed, as you say.

    Glancing over the suit again looking for stuff, I became more convinced that the purpose of the suit is to publicize Smith’s “birther life story.”

    Rickey: First he has to state a claim. Smith makes various allegations in his complaint, but even if they are true none of the actions by the defendants constitute a tort. The authors and publlsher of the book do not owe any legal duty to Lucas Smith. Even if the book caused a deal to fall apart, the authors and publisher can’t be held liable for it because there is no evidence that they knew about the deal.

  32. avatar
    justlw November 29, 2013 at 4:25 am #

    Boysmom4: …because Obama is a light skinned black man and these pictures show a dark skinned teenager.

    As with so many birther theories, there’s a very simple explanation for this: his skin was most likely darker when he was a teenager.

    Growing up in Southern California, when we got our yearbooks at the end of the school year, I always noticed that a lot of students’ portrait pictures showed them with much darker skin than they actually had at the present moment.

    You probably already know why: the portraits were the student’s ID pictures, taken at the beginning of the school year, right after three months of serious beach time had been put in. Over the intervening nine months, the kids spent much more time indoors due to shorter days, cooler weather, classes and such, and the tans faded. (Senior pictures, taken near the end of the school year, were generally much paler than underclassmen’s.)

    Note that this does not mean these students were replaced by different children. Except, as Doc says, to a complete idiot.

    In Hawaii, Barack would be exposed to more intense sunlight year round. As an adult today, especially in these skin cancer-conscious times, he spends a lot less time in a lot less intense sun.

    And of course, this is equivalent to explaining PDF anomalies to birthers when the real point is that their basic premise is an obvious load of dingo’s kidneys.

  33. avatar
    The Magic M November 29, 2013 at 5:41 am #

    Boysmom4: The current argument started when a poster referenced the Mia Maria Pope radio interview. He used her comments to say this proved Obama was a homosexual, drug addict prostitute that went by the name Soetoro.

    The Pope “story” has been incorporated into birther lore. Many birthers already refer to Ms Pope as “an Obama friend” although she clearly said they “didn’t socialize much” (and then justifies that by claiming how much the “coke-addled gay prostitute” was someone she’d never want to get involved with).
    So at the same time she was a close friend who knew all these things people keep secret (especially back in a time when being gay was not something to be open about) *and* kept her distance because he was such a bad person. Again, birther stories never add up, but birthers seem to believe a story even more if it has inconsistencies bigger than Flat Earth Theory.

  34. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG November 29, 2013 at 10:18 am #

    Well it’s black Friday.
    According to Klayman’s empty threats, Obama has to leave the White House today, “or else”. 😉

  35. avatar
    Slartibartfast November 29, 2013 at 10:21 am #

    Apparently, “or else” meant that millions of Americans would go shopping…

    Andrew Vrba, PmG:
    Well it’s black Friday.
    According to Klayman’s empty threats, Obama has to leave the White House today, “or else”.

  36. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG November 29, 2013 at 10:22 am #

    I have a phobia of being trampled to death in stores. So I tend to stay home on black Friday.

  37. avatar
    Bob November 29, 2013 at 10:28 am #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG:
    Well it’s black Friday.
    According to Klayman’s empty threats, Obama has to leave the White House today, “or else”.

    Or else Klayman starts asking for money to file legal nonsense and organize pointless protests.

  38. avatar
    Rickey November 29, 2013 at 11:04 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I think the publisher is definitely off the hook (see Alm v. Van Nostrand Reinhold North Eastern Reporter, Second Series, Volume 480, p. 1263 (Appellate Court of Illinois, 1985)), but that case (where there was an allegation that someone was injured by following a how-to book) was allowed to proceed against the author.

    A book about current events is not the same thing as a “how-to” book. I don’t know enough about the field to know the relevant cases for other kinds of books. If there is tort liability it would be negligence of a “duty of care” for fact checking

    One curious thing is that the suit really doesn’t accuse the authors of negligence (as far as I found) nor intentional wrongdoing. So that only leaves President Obama, and he is clearly not liable for what some 3rd party told the authors (no proximate cause).

    So if I have this right, the case might be dismissed, as you say.

    The difference is that in a how-to book there is an implicit duty owed by the author to give instructions which, if followed, are not likely to cause an injury – or at least include a warning that following the instructions could cause an injury.

    The authors of Double Down owe no such duty to Lucas Smith. It’s apparent to me that the gist of Smith’s complaint is tortious interference with a business transaction. But tortious interference is an intentional tort, and Smith doesn’t even claim that Heilemann and Halperin knew about his alleged attempt to sell his document, much less that they were intentionally trying to sabotage the deal.

    It would be as if I were trying to sell my house and a potential buyer reads a magazine article which says that the town I live in is an undesirable area. The potential buyer then decides to look elsewhere. It would be ludicrous to suggest that I have a cause of action against the author of the article, unless I could show that the author’s intent was to prevent me from selling my house.

    Glancing over the suit again looking for stuff, I became more convinced that the purpose of the suit is to publicize Smith’s “birther life story.”

    Agreed. I doubt that he is going to cough up the $400 filing fee. Then he has to figure out how he is going to serve Halperin and Heilemann. They aren’t employees of the publisher so he can’t serve them there. He almost assuredly would have to spend some money to find out where they live.

  39. avatar
    The Magic M November 29, 2013 at 11:19 am #

    Rickey: It would be ludicrous to suggest that I have a cause of action against the author of the article, unless I could show that the author’s intent was to prevent me from selling my house.

    But in birtherverse, the claim “Obama only showed his (fake) BC to prevent ME from getting $$$” is as valid as any other. 😉

  40. avatar
    The Magic M November 29, 2013 at 11:22 am #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Well it’s black Friday.
    According to Klayman’s empty threats, Obama has to leave the White House today

    It’s funnysad to see the people at ORYR going “Nov 19th was a game changer… now he’s going down… any… year… now…”. It’s quite telling they attach more importance to KKKlayman’s 50-peeps-rally than to his involvement with the Bachmann/Cruz Tea Party protest some weeks earlier. If anything, *that* should’ve been the thing birthers would logically point to. But, crickets.

  41. avatar
    Slartibartfast November 29, 2013 at 11:28 am #

    I believe that, under OrlyLaw, that would be a predicate REEK-O act…

    The Magic M: But in birtherverse, the claim “Obama only showed his (fake) BC to prevent ME from getting $$$” is as valid as any other.

  42. avatar
    CarlOrcas November 29, 2013 at 11:35 am #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG:
    Well it’s black Friday.
    According to Klayman’s empty threats, Obama has to leave the White House today, “or else”.

    As I write this the day has just over 12 hours left to run.

    So……………it’s any hour now!!

  43. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater November 29, 2013 at 11:53 am #

    Boysmom4: The current argument started when a poster referenced the Mia Maria Pope radio interview. He used her comments to say this proved Obama was a homosexual, drug addict prostitute that went by the name Soetoro.

    Mia Pope has no actual personal knowledge. She’s combining stories she heard from Larry Sinclair and other birthers. During a recent interview she was asked if she ever saw Obama do drugs. She hedged, she claimed she knew he was doing drugs because his lips were a bit darker than normal. Same thing happens with excessive nicotine. So according to her own admission she never saw him do drugs. Thus the claim that he was trading sexual favors for drugs was also based on at best hearsay at worse she made it up. You might want to ask the poster what actual proof Mia Pope has ever presented to back up her claims?

    She claimed Punahou didn’t allow transfer students and somehow it would have been weird for Obama to transfer in when he was 10. This is also false

  44. avatar
    gorefan November 29, 2013 at 12:14 pm #

    Slartibartfast:
    According to Indonesian law, President Obama could only be granted citizenship via adoption if he appeared in front of an Indonesian official at Lolo Soetoro’s house before his 5th birthday and he didn’t leave Hawai’i until after his 5th birthday.

    According to the 1967 W. L. Mix memo President Obama met the criteria of a stepchild per Sec. 101(b)(1)(B) of the 1952 McCarron-Walters Act. That section is the definition portion of the Act:

    Section 101 (b) As used in titles I and II

    (1) The term “child” means an unmarried person under twenty-one years of age who is
    (A) a legitimate child; or

    (B) a stepchild, provided the child had not reached the age of eighteen years at the time the marriage creating the status of stepchild occurred; or

    (C) a child legitimated under the law of the child’s residence or domicile, or under the law of the father’s residence or domicile, whether in or outside the United States, if such legitimation takes place before the child reaches the age eighteen years and the child is in the legal custody of the legitimating parent or parents at the time of such legitimation.

    There is never any mention of an adoption in any of Lolo’s immigration papers even when the discussion is about the hardships of sending Lolo back to Indonesia, they never mention any adoption.

  45. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 29, 2013 at 1:13 pm #

    Changed from ridiculous to ludicrous.

    The Magic M: “Nov 19th was a game changer”

  46. avatar
    nbc November 29, 2013 at 2:04 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: According to Klayman’s empty threats, Obama has to leave the White House today, “or else”. 😉

    In other words, nothing will happen and Klayman will have failed once again.

  47. avatar
    JD Sue November 29, 2013 at 2:48 pm #

    Rickey: It’s apparent to me that the gist of Smith’s complaint is tortious interference with a business transaction. But tortious interference is an intentional tort, and Smith doesn’t even claim that Heilemann and Halperin knew about his alleged attempt to sell his document, much less that they were intentionally trying to sabotage the deal.


    I agree. Should be dismissed under FRCP 12(b)(6): failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted.

  48. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG November 29, 2013 at 3:29 pm #

    nbc: In other words, nothing will happen and Klayman will have failed once again.

    Gotta give it to the birthers, their flawless record of failure has no blemishes.

  49. avatar
    donna November 30, 2013 at 10:08 am #

    Birther preacher claims Obama had mother of his ‘love child’ killed outside White House

    A birther preacher is pushing the conspiracy theory that Miriam Carey, who was shot to death Oct. 3 after police said she tried to ram her car into a barrier outside the White House, was the mother of President Barack Obama’s illegitimate child.

    Rev. James David Manning, pastor of Atlah World Missionary Church who believes the president was born in Kenya, claims that Carey’s family has called for a paternity test to determine whether the woman’s 15-month-old daughter was fathered by the president.

    While Carey’s family has indeed asked U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder to look into the fatal shooting, the only source for the claim about the family’s request for a paternity test seems to be additional videos posted online by Manning.

    A website called What Does It Mean? claims that Russian authorities have developed intelligence showing that Obama fathered Carey’s child during an emergency dentist visit May 18, 2011.

    Just in case the theory wasn’t convoluted enough, the site also claims that Obama engaged in the extramarital affair because his wife, Michelle Obama, was in fact born a man.

    In the real world, police reports released last month suggest that Carey began suffering from mental health issues following the August 2012 birth of her daughter.

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/11/29/birther-preacher-claims-obama-had-mother-of-his-love-child-killed-outside-white-house/

  50. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 1, 2013 at 1:13 pm #

    Speaking of “probing,” I keep getting spam comments with the text:

    “SELECT * FROM comments ORDER BY RAND() LIMIT 0, 100”

    I guess the intent is to get some material from a comment in order to use it in a spam comment to make it look legitimate.

    That doesn’t work for at least 2 reasons: The SQL injection doesn’t appear to be happening, as the comment is being stored as text. Also even if the SQL was executed, “comments” is not the name of the comments table. 😯

  51. avatar
    nbc December 1, 2013 at 7:24 pm #

    Orly filed a ‘Motion to Recuse’ in Taitz v Donahue (post master general)

    Amended motion asking judge Lamberth to recuse himself

    Posted on | December 1, 2013 | 2 Comments

    Dr. Orly Taitz, ESQ
    In her capacity as the President of
    Defend Our Freedoms Foundation

    Is Orly admitted to practice law in DC? I doubt it… So she cannot represent the DOFF…

    But those are but the least of her failures and problems… Let’s wait and see if she actually files this nonsense or if this is just to impress her remaining ‘supporter’

    She does seem to have filed as a ‘pro se’ though… Poor Orly, she cannot get the simplest things right and fails to properly understand simple english.

    Is she upset that the judge rejected her Rule 60(b)(2)/(6) motion?

  52. avatar
    nbc December 1, 2013 at 7:30 pm #

    It’s perhaps time that the Judge issues an order to show cause and sua sponte awards Orly some sanctions for her inexcusable failures.

  53. avatar
    Keith December 1, 2013 at 10:22 pm #

    While researching video’s for a threadjack in another post, I came across this nice little ditty.

    A Marxist viewpoint on Churchill and Harding.

    Be patient (Marx was a bit slow in his old age) and there is an story about Marx and Warren Harding. Now if you want to discuss a crooked President, Warren G. Harding is your man. Of course like all humans, he had a good side too.

  54. avatar
    Off Topic December 1, 2013 at 10:45 pm #

    [Please do not post off-topic comments on the articles. Use the Open Thread (see site menu). Doc.]

    I think everybody wants to believe the President and I used to I really did but if he can lie about insurance can’t he lie about whatever he wants to get what he wants lie he did about insurance?

    just sayin’

  55. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG December 1, 2013 at 11:58 pm #

    nbc:
    It’s perhaps time that the Judge issues an order to show cause and sua sponte awards Orly some sanctions for her inexcusable failures.

    If Orly had been an Imperial Admiral, she would have felt Lord Vader’s non-corporeal death grip, about fifty some odd failures ago.

  56. avatar
    Dr Kenneth noisewater December 2, 2013 at 12:30 am #

    Off Topic:
    [Please do not post off-topic comments on the articles. Use the Open Thread (see site menu). Doc.]

    I think everybody wants to believe the President and I used to I really did but if he can lie about insurance can’t he lie about whatever he wants to get what he wants lie he did about insurance?

    just sayin’

    Ah yes the illogical slippery slope argument.

  57. avatar
    The Magic M December 2, 2013 at 6:04 am #

    Off Topic: if he can lie about insurance can’t he lie about whatever he wants to get

    GWB lied about WMD in Iraq, so was everything he ever said a lie? Is his BC a forgery because he, like every politician, lied every now and then?
    Obama is not a saint, does that make him the devil?

    (Besides, your claim carries another false implication because it assumes the only proof we have about Obama’s legitimacy is his word. His birth certificate and the confirmations from two Hawaiian governors and many more does tell a different story. You do not need to believe Obama to be convinced he was born in Hawaii.)

  58. avatar
    The Magic M December 2, 2013 at 6:13 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I guess the intent is to get some material from a comment in order to use it in a spam comment to make it look legitimate.

    I’d guess this code was supposed to run on the spammer’s side. An SQL injection would need something more than wrapping the injectable code in quote marks to work without breaking the code, even if the comment was (badly) stored like

    $sql = “INSERT INTO comments (comment) VALUES ($comment)”;

    it would’nt work. Besides, a SELECT by itself would not return anything to the output in that context, it would need to abuse further database methods to print or send the results.

  59. avatar
    The Magic M December 2, 2013 at 6:17 am #

    donna: A website called What Does It Mean? claims that Russian authorities have developed intelligence showing that Obama fathered Carey’s child during an emergency dentist visit May 18, 2011.

    In Germany, this would fly. We had two celebrities (one of which, Boris Becker, the tennis player, you probably know; the other was Dieter Bohlen, our most successful record producer and host of “Germany’s Got Talent” and “German Idol”) in the last decade who fathered children following a “quickie” with a fan they had met minutes before (in the Becker case, it infamously happened in a broom closet).

  60. avatar
    gorefan December 2, 2013 at 8:56 am #

    Off Topic:
    [Please do not post off-topic comments on the articles. Use the Open Thread (see site menu). Doc.]

    I think everybody wants to believe the President and I used to I really did but if he can lie about insurance can’t he lie about whatever he wants to get what he wants lie he did about insurance?

    just sayin’

    This might interest you.

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/24/politics/presidents-lie/

  61. avatar
    donna December 2, 2013 at 9:55 am #

    GOP strategist (Ford O’Connell): Reagan is dead; move on

    Among the book’s 10 rules or “winning plays”: “Stop Giving a S–t About Obama’s Birthplace,” “Hug the Gays (No, Really)” and “Kill Immigration Reform, Kill the GOP.”

    http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/191644-gop-strategist-reagan-is-dead-party-must-move-on

    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/townhallcomstaff/2013/11/27/hail-mary-ford-oconnells-playbook-for-the-gop-n1754232

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/11/29/ronald-reagan-is-not-coming-back-republicans-accept-it/

    Here Are 5 New Things We Know About Obama

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/02/obama-new-things_n_4371123.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

  62. avatar
    JD Reed December 2, 2013 at 1:39 pm #

    Re recent quote of the day by Dinesh D’Souza:”I am thankful this week when I remember that America is big enough and great enough to survive Grown-Up Trayvon in the White House!”
    Flies in the face of the D’Souza book and subsequent film that advanced the thesis that Obama’s re-election would mean the end of Western Civilization as we know it.
    “Course D’Souza is known for saying things he doesn’t mean, such as about the sanctity of marriage.

  63. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater December 2, 2013 at 1:53 pm #

    JD Reed: Re recent quote of the day by Dinesh D’Souza:”I am thankful this week when I remember that America is big enough and great enough to survive Grown-Up Trayvon in the White House!”Flies in the face of the D’Souza book and subsequent film that advanced the thesis that Obama’s re-election would mean the end of Western Civilization as we know it.“Course D’Souza is known for saying things he doesn’t mean, such as about the sanctity of marriage.

    Yeah the coward got made a fool of the week by the internets so much so that he removed the tweet.

  64. avatar
    DonnaLKS December 2, 2013 at 7:29 pm #

    [Moved to the Open Thread, Doc.]

    – – still wondering about this – – “Multiple Obama Birth Certificates Surface In Alabama Eligibility Case”

    http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/05/multiple-obama-birth-certificates-surface-in-alabama-eligibility-case/

  65. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 2, 2013 at 7:43 pm #

    Yeah, I never could make any sense out of that one either. There aren’t multiple documents, just a copy and a copy of a copy. See my detailed explanation here:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2013/01/mississippi-fritz-documents-and-copies/

    DonnaLKS: – – still wondering about this – – “Multiple Obama Birth Certificates Surface In Alabama Eligibility Case”

  66. avatar
    Dave December 2, 2013 at 8:51 pm #

    Birtherreport has a post which contains the following quote attributed to Obama: “Judge me by the people with whom I surround myself.” Not a particularly remarkable quote, but given the remarkable wingnut track record for misattributing quotes, I thought I’d check into it.

    I can find no evidence that Obama ever said it. But I find no shortage of wingnut posts all over the place with the quote. Some few claim he said it in the debate on Oct. 15, 2008. Check the transcript, it’s not there.

    The earliest occurrence of this misattribution that I could find is an article by wingnut columnist (and birther) Anthony Martin dated Sep. 3, 2009: Obama: ‘Judge me by the people who surround me’.

  67. avatar
    nbc December 2, 2013 at 10:07 pm #

    I looked in more detail at the jury selection processes in Tennessee and believe that Walt may have been confused about what he observed. By the time Judge Amy Reedy opened the envelope with the jury selection, the process of manual or automated selection had already taken place. She removed a number of names which became the jurors for the Grand Jury, either panel 1 or panel 2, and she wrote down on the juror’s name to which panel he/she had been selected.

    Read more here

    It’s unfortunate that once again Walt’s reading comprehension may have caused him to spend more time in jail.

    Oh and yes, the foreman of the grand jury is not summoned and is not legally a juror but together with the randomly selected jury they form the Grand Jury. Note that the foreperson is appointed for 2 years and can be reappointed multiple times, even successively.

    Another instance where more careful reading would have avoided much confusion.

  68. avatar
    JPotter December 2, 2013 at 10:52 pm #

    DonnaLKS: – – still wondering about this – – “Multiple Obama Birth Certificates Surface In Alabama Eligibility Case”

    They’re pandering to an unsophisticated and lazy audience trained to spasm at every sound bite. Their target audience isn’t going to bother to scroll to page 33 to see what the headline already assured them was there!

    This crowd is also “mistaking” the AIDS ribbon at the WH, hung yearly for World AIDS Day (12/1), for a Christmas Decoration.

  69. avatar
    nbc December 2, 2013 at 11:42 pm #

    DonnaLKS: – – still wondering about this – – “Multiple Obama Birth Certificates Surface In Alabama Eligibility Case”

    Yeah, hilarious is it not. Can these people not do some simple research and deduce what happened?

  70. avatar
    Dave December 3, 2013 at 8:27 am #

    One even more minor observation — I left a comment at birtherreport.com pointing out that Obama never said “Judge me by the people with whom I surround myself. They deleted it.

    This need to delete inconvenient facts is what makes birthers so special.

  71. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG December 3, 2013 at 11:22 am #

    Dave:
    One even more minor observation — I left a comment at birtherreport.com pointing out that Obama never said “Judge me by the people with whom I surround myself. They deleted it.

    This need to delete inconvenient facts is what makes birthers so special.

    Before getting banned, I remember making a post likening birthers to Baghdad Bob, not only did the comment get deleted, but BOY did I get a stream of hate-filled replies, before it did. 🙂
    The moral of the story: To make them REALLY angry, tell it like it is. They hate that.

  72. avatar
    nbc December 3, 2013 at 4:21 pm #

    Educating Sharon and Walt on the Juror Questionnaire

    here

    Seems that Marty Cook has been following the rules. What was observed in court was the selection of Grand Juror members by the judge, according to the rules, and searching the juror’s questionnaire and annotate it with Panel #1 or Panel #2, since there were two Grand Jury’s selected during this hearing.

    Why is it so hard to properly read the Tennessee Code and the Rules of the Court?

    Rule 6: Grand Jury

    (1) Formation at a Regular Term. On the first day of each term of court at which a grand jury is required to be impaneled, the judge of the court authorized by law to charge the grand jury and to receive its report shall direct the names of all the qualified jurors in attendance for the criminal courts of the county to be written on separate slips of paper and placed in a box or other suitable receptacle and drawn out by the judge in open court. The foreperson and the twelve qualified jurors whose names are first drawn constitute the grand jury for the term and shall attend the court until dismissed by the judge or until the next term.

    It’s not that hard to do the research, and I am amazed that a ‘reporter’ like Sharon did not contact the Clerk’s office or read the relevant statutes which outline the procedure? In fact, there must be another Grand Jury selection happening any day now for the 2014 year, so I am sure that Sharon will be attending or have someone attend in her place who can report objectively on what happens during this event?

  73. avatar
    Brian December 3, 2013 at 4:22 pm #

    The Post & Email’s Open Letter to Those Masquerading as the Media
    “LOOK IN THE MIRROR”
    Sharon Rondeau | The Post & Email

    December 2, 2013

    To the 39 “media” outlets protesting lack of access to the Obama White House in a hand-delivered letter on November 21, 2013:

    http://beforeitsnews.com/obama-birthplace-controversy/2013/12/must-read-media-ripped-over-obama-id-fraud-to-those-masquerading-as-media-2471228.html

  74. avatar
    nbc December 3, 2013 at 4:52 pm #

    Brian: To the 39 “media” outlets protesting lack of access to the Obama White House in a hand-delivered letter on November 21, 2013:

    Hilarious how Rondeau exposes her dislike, biases and hatred for our President. Of course, who is going to take notice of this anyway?

  75. avatar
    Dave December 3, 2013 at 5:05 pm #

    Pretty funny that she posted her “open letter” behind her pay wall.

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2013/12/02/the-post-emails-open-letter-to-those-masquerading-as-the-media-pb/

  76. avatar
    gorefan December 3, 2013 at 5:30 pm #

    Brian: Post & Email’s Open Letter

    Because open letters have been so successful in the past. She might as well take an ad out in the Washington Times.

  77. avatar
    Majority Will December 3, 2013 at 6:33 pm #

    Birther and Christian Militia Leader Who Threatened Obama NOW Targeting CONGRESS

    From his Facebook page:
    “Pursuant to the FINAL WARNING, I am now putting together a short list of the representatives and senators who are acknowledging Obama’s ineligibility to assume and hold the Office of President.”

    https://www.facebook.com/everest.wilhelmsen

    Article:
    http://aattp.org/christian-militia-leader-who-threatened-obama-now-threatening-congress/

    Enjoy federal prison.

  78. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG December 3, 2013 at 7:40 pm #

    Majority Will:
    Birther and Christian Militia Leader Who Threatened Obama NOW Targeting CONGRESS

    From his Facebook page:
    “Pursuant to the FINAL WARNING, I am now putting together a short list of the representatives and senators who are acknowledging Obama’s ineligibility to assume and hold the Office of President.”

    https://www.facebook.com/everest.wilhelmsen

    Article:
    http://aattp.org/christian-militia-leader-who-threatened-obama-now-threatening-congress/

    Enjoy federal prison.

    Oh, he’ll change his tune the second he gets a knock at his door from the Secret Service.

  79. avatar
    donna December 3, 2013 at 9:41 pm #

    Obama’s Uncle Granted Permission To Remain In U.S.

    AND 11 paranoid obama conspiracy theories

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/03/obama-uncle_n_4379575.html?utm_hp_ref=politics#slide=49206

  80. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG December 4, 2013 at 9:19 am #

    donna:
    Obama’s Uncle Granted Permission To Remain In U.S.

    AND 11 paranoid obama conspiracy theories

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/03/obama-uncle_n_4379575.html?utm_hp_ref=politics#slide=49206

    Guffaw! I love it! Anything that makes the birthers cry is good reading in my book!

  81. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 4, 2013 at 9:37 am #

    The birthers were saying that both undocumented Obamas should be treated the same, and sent back to Kenya. The Uncle being allowed to stay in the US really deflates that one.

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Guffaw! I love it! Anything that makes the birthers cry is good reading in my book!

  82. avatar
    Curious George December 5, 2013 at 11:09 am #

    Carl Orcas….

    Is it true that the New Phoenix Times will be approaching Mike Zullo of the CCCP at tomorrows 6pm meeting of the the Deer Valley Tea Party? If so that will be a real hoot of an interview.

  83. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 5, 2013 at 11:51 am #

    Giving a birther a copy of Photoshop is like turning a child loose in the control room of a nuclear power station.

  84. avatar
    CarlOrcas December 5, 2013 at 12:20 pm #

    Curious George:
    Carl Orcas….

    Is it true that the New Phoenix Times will be approaching Mike Zullo of the CCCP at tomorrows 6pm meeting of the the Deer Valley Tea Party?If so that will be a real hoot of an interview.

    Good question. I don’t know…..but we can hope.

  85. avatar
    Jim December 5, 2013 at 3:10 pm #

    http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2013/12/04/what-if-its-all-true/

    Comments are pure comedy gold. Have fun!

  86. avatar
    Arthur December 5, 2013 at 4:50 pm #

    Continued defamatory comments on Birther Report, courtsey of Lucas Crookshank and from the keyboard of someone named Jim Youngblood:

    “Doc Conspiracy is actually being sued by Lucas Smith in a Civil complaint. Doc AKA Kevin Davidson apparently broke into Lucas Smith’s computer and messed a deal he had to sell Obama’s Kenyan Birth Certificate for $3 Million Dollars to someone. Read more Here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/186850009/2014-Lucas-Da…”

    http://www.birtherreport.com/2013/12/audio-private-investigator-rips-obot.html

  87. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 5, 2013 at 5:06 pm #

    The article is stupid, though.

    Jim: Comments are pure comedy gold. Have fun!

  88. avatar
    Suranis December 5, 2013 at 6:06 pm #

    Yep, makes me want to email the clown and point out all the flaws. But he would probably just junk the mail.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    The article is stupid, though.

  89. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG December 5, 2013 at 7:05 pm #

    It looks like birthers aren’t the only ones giving out their one size fits all “kits”.
    Santa is passing out the following “kit” to birthers:

    *Aluminum foil hat x1
    *Note x1

    The note reads:
    “Dear -name-, You’re getting poop down your chimney this year! …You KNOW what you did! Sincerely, Santa. P.S. Keep this up, and you’re getting the same thing next year too!”

  90. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 5, 2013 at 7:50 pm #

    More email for birthers left on this blog’s contact form:

    Dear Mr. Vogt, In reading your affidavits and submissions to the judicial authorities, federal, Washington state, and upon review of what you have uncovered in this loophole i think you are really on to the way to move this thing along, at last with the imposter we are dealing with. It is my belief that those who have seen what you have uncovered necessitats filings in all the state’s, to each and every federal judiciary, we only need one such filing in every state to get this thing really going. It’s high time to do so and I would like to dialogue with you briefly about this, before i proceed to do this very thing in the state where i am presently located. A phone call would be much better than email on this, if its possible. can you phone me or provide a number where i can reach you? A republic-saving,Patriot Grandma [ 404-phone number redacted]

  91. avatar
    nbc December 6, 2013 at 12:19 am #

    Hermitian is back at my blog asking me to explain why the Xerox work centre behaves the way it does..

    What a fool…

    He has no concept of the scientific method…

    He remains in limbo until he has something relevant to contribute. I cannot longer be bothered trying to educate him.

  92. avatar
    JPotter December 6, 2013 at 12:40 am #

    nbc: Hermitian is back at my blog asking me to explain why the Xerox work centre behaves the way it does..

    By asking “why the Xerox work centre behaves the way it does” I take that to mean when MRC compression is enabled. So….he’s asking you to explain why an MRC PDF looks the way it does? That’s been done a few times. Or is he asking about specific points?

  93. avatar
    The European December 6, 2013 at 11:57 am #

    Jim:
    http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2013/12/04/what-if-its-all-true/

    Comments are pure comedy gold.Have fun!

    First, let me honor Nelson Mandela. May he live in our and our children’s memory.

    Second and on topic:

    there is a lot of talk about lies that your President Obama has told lately.

    While I am sure that he has lied in nis

  94. avatar
    The European December 6, 2013 at 12:05 pm #

    (continued)

    …. in his life – as have I – I am sure that he has not lied in the cases of the stay with his uncle and the “every one can keep his insurance”.

    In the first case the White House told the press that they had no records of BHO ever meeting his uncle. I guess that this question reached his desk only lately and he set the record straight. Let’s not forget, what BHO said about smoking joints. He is much too intelligent to lie about things like that.

    The other case is about saing something in good faith which is not true. I compare it to Colin Powell’s speech before the UN. A big mistake, but no “lie”.

  95. avatar
    RanTalbott December 6, 2013 at 1:02 pm #

    Orly’s Screech O’ The Day™ is a twofer: she’s demanding that Arpaio et al file their *$#@ing Official Law Enforcement Criminalistic-type Complaint, already. And she’s Putting Him on Notice that he’s guilty of obstruction of justice for not giving Hayes’ daffydavit to prosecutors.

    I don’t suppose we’ll be lucky enough to have her subpoena it, and give Corporal Zullo a lesson in copyright law…

  96. avatar
    The European December 6, 2013 at 2:54 pm #

    /a bit offtopic

    We talked about steganography. You can download a small programm here:

    http://svenomenal.net/devel/steganoV2

    Then you can download a rather ugly picture here:

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3559407/fail.PNG

    This is the one with the hidden message !

    You need a password. Think of Edgar Allen Poe and you will find it. Just a hint: it is a four letter word.

    Enjoy

  97. avatar
    The European December 6, 2013 at 2:59 pm #

    Dropbox not yet ready. Try again later

  98. avatar
    The European December 6, 2013 at 3:12 pm #

    Dropbox is ready now. The small prog is in German. I guess that those who are interested will find through. There are two messages hidden, a verbal and a nonverbal.

  99. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater December 6, 2013 at 10:07 pm #

    Mark Gillar came out of hiding today on Mike Volin’s show boy did he have some whoppers. Still pushing the pakistan travel ban. Claims that Arpaio had the 1960 race codes after the 2nd press conference. Makes the claim that it’s the law that if you were black you had to be marked as Negro as your race. Tries to claim that’s what the 1960 race codes said. Doesn’t mention that his video was a mistake and that he put the 1968 race codes as the 1961 codes. Also tried to claim Hawaii never verified anything. Kerchner showed up to now try to claim even if it’s a real verification it doesn’t verify the original because it could have been verifying an amended record that could have been changed in 2007.

  100. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG December 7, 2013 at 9:05 am #

    So, I noticed that many a tea partier has an angry at Ted Cruz now. He wrote a tribute piece to Nelson Mandela, which is as you’ve probably guessed, is a huge no-no among the “We’re not racists, honest!” crowd. Its fun watching the guys at free republic squirm. They’re not exactly fans of Mandela either(big surprise), but they love them some Cruz. So much so that they are feeling horribly conflicted right now! “Urg! Whom do I hate now?! I love Cruz! *slap* I hate Cruz! *slap* I love Cruz! *slap* I hate Cruz! *slap!*”
    What is a RWNJ degenerate to do, in such a situation? LOL!

  101. avatar
    JPotter December 7, 2013 at 10:46 am #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: So, I noticed that many a tea partier has an angry at Ted Cruz now. He wrote a tribute piece to Nelson Mandela, which is as you’ve probably guessed, is a huge no-no among the “We’re not racists, honest!” crowd.

    Holy hells, google nelson mandela site:www.freerepublic.com for a disgusting time. Place has a longrunning obsession, 4,750 results. Personal destruction on parade …. nothing I care to sully OCT with by quoting here

  102. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG December 7, 2013 at 4:58 pm #

    JPotter: Holy hells, google nelson mandela site:www.freerepublic.com for a disgusting time. Place has a longrunning obsession, 4,750 results. Personal destruction on parade …. nothing I care to sully OCT with by quoting here

    All I can say, is that it must be a very confusing time to be a bigoted nutjob! Picture this, but without the “AWWWWWWWWWW” factor.
    http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll75/TexasRevolutionary/Pooties/cat_im_confus.jpg

  103. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 7, 2013 at 5:39 pm #

    Yikes, 413 comment spams.

  104. avatar
    Steve December 8, 2013 at 12:51 am #

    Howie Carr, the working class hero who went to Deerfield Academy is apparently a birther.

    He’s really street smart so I guess he must be on to something.

    http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/columnists/howie_carr/2013/12/carr_twisting_the_truth_till_you_cry_uncle

  105. avatar
    CarlOrcas December 8, 2013 at 1:07 am #

    Steve: Howie Carr, the working class hero who went to Deerfield Academy is apparently a birther.

    How do you know he went to Deerfield Academy? Have you seen his school records? How about his records from kindergarten?

  106. avatar
    RanTalbott December 8, 2013 at 1:42 am #

    If you want a cat photo that portrays the birthers’ and the bigots’ situation, I think this one is better:

    http://s285.photobucket.com/user/TexasRevolutionary/media/Pooties/1252798670573.jpg.html

  107. avatar
    Majority Will December 8, 2013 at 9:39 am #

    Excerpt from The 7 Types Of Republicans And How To Debate Them

    (with my apologies to the many sane, rational Republicans who aren’t acknowledged in this list of stereotypes)

    http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/08/01/the-seven-types-of-republicans-and-how-to-debate-them/

    Birther Republicans:

    The birthers think that Obama was born in Kenya. No matter how much evidence you present that is contradictory to that thesis, they will continue to insist that he is not the legitimate president. They are sore-losers because McCain lost the election in 2008 – even though President Obama has won reelection since then. They will never support Obama, even if he paid off the entire national debt.

    The problem with this type of Republican’s views:

    They think Obama was born in Kenya. They think that Orly Taitz, who grew up in a communist country, is credible, and that Obama is a socialist. They think Donald Trump is a smart guy. They think that Obama’s birth announcements in Hawaiian newspapers were propagated over 40 years in advance of his election, just so that he could be elected someday.

    What to remember when debating them:

    Don’t waste your time. You could wave Obama’s actual birth certificate in their face and they would still say it’s a fake. They are sore-losers and they will never be happy as long as Obama is president. Make jokes asking to see their birth certificates, or Sarah Palin’s birth certificate. This is the best way to get them to go away.

  108. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 8, 2013 at 6:58 pm #

    To date, this blog has received 117,486 spam comments .

  109. avatar
    CarlOrcas December 8, 2013 at 7:12 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    To date, this blog has received 117,486 spam comments .

    Wow!!

    Out of curiosity……are they relevant in some way or are they the typical “My aunt Mildred made a zillion dollars on the internet last night……” crap?

    I understand how junk gets sent to my e-mail address but how do they do it on a blog? Do they pick up url’s for threads or just blast your main in box?

    How much time do you spend every day dealing with these messages?

  110. avatar
    Brian December 9, 2013 at 8:51 am #

    Press release:

    Law offices of Orly Taitz

    Obama mouthpiece, Daily Kos, attacks major Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate, Congresswoman Coleen Hanabusa, for supporting “Hawaiian Observer” news paper, which reports on legal actions by Attorney Orly Taitz in exposing Obama as a fraud with fabricated IDs.

    Daily Kos is urging Hawaiians to vote for Brian Schatz, who was appointed by Abercrombie in an apparent quid pro quo deal for signing a fabricated Certification of Candidate for Obama. Please see below OCONs (Official Certificate of Nomination) for Obama, Kerry and Gore. You can see that the certification signed by the former chair of the Dem party of HI, Brian Schatz, was a falsified document, words “eligible according to the U.S. Constitution” WERE REMOVED and the document states that Obama is eligible for the U.S. Presidency ONLY ACCORDING TO THE RULES AND REGULATIONS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

    ==> Apparently U.S. is no longer governed by the Constitution, it is governed by the rules or, actually, lack of any rules or any decency for that matter, of the Democratic party. <==

    Dying Senator Inoyuie sent a letter to Governor Abercrombie, asking him to appoint Hanabusa, however Abercrombie chose to appoint Schatz, rewarding him for the falsification of records to aid and abet Obama to steal the U.S. presidency with bogus IDs.

    Attorney Orly Taitz continues to fight this theft and treason of the century. There are 7 cases in multiple courts, however we see the same level of corruption, criminality and treason in courts as we see in the U.S. Congress and among government officials. Taitz is working pro bono. Donations are greatly appreciated and can be given on TaitzReport.com via pay-pal or by mail at 29839 Santa Margarita pkwy, ste
    100, Rancho Santa Margarita, ca 92688.

    Link to Official Certificate of Nomination for Obama, Kerry and Gore:

    https://docs.google.com/gview?url=http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/OCONs-HI-Obama-Kerry-Gore.pdf&chrome=true

  111. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 9, 2013 at 9:03 am #

    The fans of Douglas Vogt seem to be particularly dim bulbs. No less than THREE of them have posted contact form messages addressed to him on this blog.

    I say dim, but actually since I forwarded them all, they eventually reached their intended destination.

    Maybe I am the dim one ❓

  112. avatar
    JPotter December 9, 2013 at 10:56 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I say dim, but actually since I forwarded them all, they eventually reached their intended destination.

    You’re a cruel man, Dr. C 😉

  113. avatar
    The Magic M December 9, 2013 at 11:16 am #

    CarlOrcas: How do you know he went to Deerfield Academy? Have you seen his school records? How about his records from kindergarten?

    A childhood friend of mine went to Deerfield for a year as a foreign student around 1986. He probably doesn’t remember Carr. Or, in birtherspeak, “nobody remembers Carr from Deerfield”.

  114. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG December 9, 2013 at 12:31 pm #

    BR is really hard up for new material. They’re back to pimping birther funded newspaper ads as “-Newspaper- reports Obama fraud evidence.” type stories and referring to old disproved bunk as new “bombshells”. I’ve eaten bran flakes more exciting than their headlines du’jour. On the other hand, those were some pretty damned exciting bran flakes.

  115. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 9, 2013 at 12:57 pm #

    My problem too.

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: BR is really hard up for new material.

  116. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG December 9, 2013 at 1:07 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    My problem too.

    Yeah, but when you revisit old material, you present it as a revisit, or a more scrutinizing look at -thing-. BR re-reports their old material as “Shocking new bombshell felony fraud usurper smoking gun information!/We got him this time!”

  117. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 9, 2013 at 1:34 pm #

    The burden of integrity.

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Yeah, but when you revisit old material, you present it as a revisit, or a more scrutinizing look at -thing-

  118. avatar
    The Magic M December 10, 2013 at 4:14 am #

    RanTalbott: I don’t suppose we’ll be lucky enough to have her subpoena it, and give Corporal Zullo a lesson in copyright law…

    Maybe somebody could help Orly, just this once? 😉
    (Not that she’s gonna take clues from anybody, of course…)

  119. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG December 10, 2013 at 9:20 am #

    Klayman is comparing himself to Mandela now. http://freakoutnation.com/2013/12/09/larry-klayman-is-just-like-nelson-mandela-says-larry-klayman/

    Does this mean he’s condoning having someone imprison him for a few decades? Cause I’m cool with that.

  120. avatar
    The Magic M December 10, 2013 at 11:31 am #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Klayman is comparing himself to Mandela now.

    The cognitive dissonance in open racist KKKlayman reaches new heights. He should have gone all in and called himself “The White Mandela – you know, the good one”.

    Asking the folks on ORYR why the people in Thailand are taking to the streets while the birthers are glued behind their keyboards got me my second IP ban this year.

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Does this mean he’s condoning having someone imprison him for a few decades? Cause I’m cool with that.

    I’m not (well, half-cool maybe). Jailing somebody for disagreeing is what birthers love, so I wouldn’t stoop to their level. OTOH, a dose of their own medicine might not hurt…

  121. avatar
    Montana December 10, 2013 at 1:45 pm #

    The Birthers/ Teabaggers have no evidence that would stand up in a court of law in the United States. To all the Birthers in internet land, its upon you to prove to all of us (the majority) that what you are saying is true. Take it to court you bunch of cowards!

    Let me be clear none of these Birther/ Teabaggers dullards have taken there “Birther Documents of facts, more like lies” and none have won a case in the “U.S. Courts”, maybe in their simple minds (if they have any) but not in our “U.S. Courts”, so unless Birthers/ Teabaggers, whatever you want to be called, win a court case, we will continue to see as dullards, liars or racist or maybe all three. Deal with the real truth baby!

    To all the Teabaggers / Birthers/ Chicken Littles that keep saying that the sky is falling, and the Unites States will fail, never count against the United States of America, we are coming back and you and your losers are wrong!


    [I have put Montana in moderation for spamming (same comment 4 times). This comment was moved to the Open Thread. Doc.]

  122. avatar
    Daniel December 10, 2013 at 2:00 pm #

    Kind of odd to see anti-birther spam

    Montana: The Birthers/ Teabaggers have no evidence that would stand up in a court of…

    Kind of odd to see anti-birther SPAM…

  123. avatar
    Roadscholar December 10, 2013 at 2:05 pm #

    Actually, Montana, the place to have taken their “evidence” would be Congress and/or the Electoral College. Unfortunately for the Birfers, none of them believe for a minute (despite the few who claim they do) that the President is anything but a Natural-Born American.

    That leaves the Birfoons and TeaTards with the only option of saying that every member of Congress and the Supreme Court is “in on it” and hiding the “fact” that he’s “ineligible.” And that, my friend, is plainly insane.

  124. avatar
    Bovril December 10, 2013 at 3:09 pm #

    Do we all remember Congressman Stockman, he that was to be the latest and greatest of he Birfoons Great White Hopes…..?

    The one who has singularly failed to actually do any of the stuff he allegedly “promised” to do.

    Seems there may be a good reason he is silently distancing himself

    http://www.politico.com/story/2013/12/steve-stockman-john-cornyn-texas-senate-primary-100924.html?hp=t1_3

    Seems he has aspirations to try and usurp US Texan Senator Cornyn and doesn’t wany any of that Birther stink on him…..

  125. avatar
    Rickey December 10, 2013 at 6:01 pm #

    Obama Derangement Syndrome has consequences. A 36-year-old actress from Texas will spend the next 18 years in prison after sending ricin-laced letters to Obama and Michael Bloomberg.

    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/10/21850874-texas-actress-pleads-guilty-for-ricin-laced-letter-sent-to-obama?lite

  126. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 10, 2013 at 8:30 pm #

    Article: “WHY THE HOUSE CAN’T IMPEACH OBAMA” by Servando Gonzalez

    http://www.newswithviews.com/Gonzalez/servando103.htm

  127. avatar
    CarlOrcas December 10, 2013 at 9:54 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Article: “WHY THE HOUSE CAN’T IMPEACH OBAMA” by Servando Gonzalez

    http://www.newswithviews.com/Gonzalez/servando103.htm

    Ah this is like the good ole days…….the Rockefellers, the CFR. What’s he think about fluoride in our drinking water?

  128. avatar
    The Magic M December 11, 2013 at 4:17 am #

    As always, the first open lie gives it away:

    Furthermore, Obama has never publicly said that he was born in the U.S.

    Even WND says that’s wrong:
    http://www.wnd.com/2012/04/obama-i-was-born-in-hawaii-wink-wink/

  129. avatar
    Keith December 11, 2013 at 5:37 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Article: “WHY THE HOUSE CAN’T IMPEACH OBAMA” by Servando Gonzalez

    http://www.newswithviews.com/Gonzalez/servando103.htm

    And… the flag pin and the failure to salute canards… Sheesh.

  130. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 11, 2013 at 9:01 am #

    Fox News satirist Greg Gutfeld says that “Kenyan-born interloper Barack Obama” should be impeached for biting his lower lip, something deeply offensive to the American People.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOpWwGtG-20 (@ 2.11)

    I don’t think this gets Gutfeld on my list.

  131. avatar
    Paper December 11, 2013 at 9:26 am #

    He seems to believe the President, any president, could not be impeached if they haven’t taken the oath. However, it is more likely, such as it is, that a president could be impeached for not saying the oath. The oath is the first duty of the new president, already President, as specified in the Constitution. But if any president doesn’t take the oath, they are violating the Constitution. So, Mr. Gonzalez might want to reconsider or update his views, and start lobbying his Representative to get that impeachment process started.

    Not that he will get anywhere with it, but he shouldn’t be the one to scuttle his own hope, when the very thing he says prevents impeachment is the thing that would provide an argument for it.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Article: “WHY THE HOUSE CAN’T IMPEACH OBAMA” by Servando Gonzalez

    http://www.newswithviews.com/Gonzalez/servando103.htm

  132. avatar
    Roadscholar December 11, 2013 at 10:40 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Fox News satirist Greg Gutfeld says that “Kenyan-born interloper Barack Obama” should be impeached for biting his lower lip, something deeply offensive to the American People.

    Is that another reason why they impeached Clinton?

  133. avatar
    The Magic M December 11, 2013 at 11:37 am #

    Paper: He seems to believe the President, any president, could not be impeached if they haven’t taken the oath.

    Isn’t it funny how the cranks always come up with new ideas why Obama could *not* be impeached? It’s almost as if they don’t want his presidency to end. 😉

    In the unlikely case Obama *is* ever impeached (and convicted by the Senate), I would like to see those cranks go “it’s not valid, he’s still President, you can’t impeach him because…”. 😉

    Paper: But if any president doesn’t take the oath, they are violating the Constitution.

    Interesting legal question, but “violating the Constitution” is not a “high crime or misdemeanor” in itself as far as I understand it.

  134. avatar
    Rickey December 11, 2013 at 11:47 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Article: “WHY THE HOUSE CAN’T IMPEACH OBAMA” by Servando Gonzalez

    I wonder if Servando Gonzalez realizes that his bogeyman, David Rockefeller, is 98 years old.

  135. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater December 11, 2013 at 2:36 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Article: “WHY THE HOUSE CAN’T IMPEACH OBAMA” by Servando Gonzalezhttp://www.newswithviews.com/Gonzalez/servando103.htm

    I stopped reading when he claimed that one has to place one’s hand over their heart during the national anthem as required by federal law. This is untrue.

  136. avatar
    RanTalbott December 11, 2013 at 2:48 pm #

    The Magic M: Isn’t it funny how the cranks always come up with new ideas why Obama could *not* be impeached?

    Well, the theory is that, if he can’t be impeached, he’s vulnerable to being indicted by one of their we’re-sure-it’s-in-the-penumbra-of-the-Constitution-somewhere Citizen’s Sekrit Grand Jewelries. Then he can be tried in absentia in front of Judge Judy, and the Heroic Deputies of the CCP can be dispatched to act as the all-right-n-legal-like combination frog marching and firing squad to carry out the sentence.

    And, of course, the Secret Service will have to let them into the WH, because they’ll be Agens of the Pee-pul., and the agents won’t want to face Mispersonization of Justice charges. ‘Cuz that’s a felony ‘n all.

  137. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny December 11, 2013 at 3:39 pm #

    Rickey: Dr. Conspiracy:
    Article: “WHY THE HOUSE CAN’T IMPEACH OBAMA” by Servando Gonzalez

    Given my own personal educational background, I find it disturbing that the guy claims to be a semiologist. A semiologist who does not recognize blatant conspiracy theories (and in this case the plural is not caused by “syntactics”, to use the semiotic term), really?

    Of course, anybody can call themselves a cook, or an intelligence analyst. It would be nice to know whether he really has some kind of diploma, or somehow has gone Orly-batty in recent years.

    But what I do not find disturbing, but really hate is that he abuses one of my favourite British films to dish up one of his stupidest CTs.

    http://www.intelinet.org/sg_site/articles/sg_man_never_was.html

    The most ridiculous lie there is that there are no photos of Obama proving he was at any of the schools he claims to have attended. And in another article our semiologist also knows that Obama is gay, but probably not homo-sexual (I kid you not), whereas Bush was, oh yes, you guessed it.

  138. avatar
    Paper December 11, 2013 at 4:13 pm #

    Well, that is a fine point, in that crimes per se only exist at the initiative of the legislative branch in its constitutionally created capacity, but here we have a specific positive duty/action mandated by the Constitution (not just for presidents either).

    While presidents, including George Washington, have overstepped their authority (in that sense violating the Constitution) and have been pushed back without impeachment being invoked, swearing the oath of office is so specifIc a task, that if the legislative or judicial branches thought it had not been done, they could insist on it being done, and if a president then still refused, that is when I think the question of impeachment would arise.

    The remedy is so easy and clear that it would only become an issue if the Chief Executive outright refused, in which case I think that such a willful and ridiculous refusal would become sufficient unto itself.

    The issue is all silly nonsense, however. It’s never actually going to be an issue, with this or any president. Nor for any other constitutionally mandated oath taker.

    On the fine points, inversely, Andrew Johnson was impeached (but not convicted) in the main charge for refusing to follow an arguably unconstitutional law passed by Congress over his veto (a law that would prevent presidents from firing cabinet heads without Senate approval). So Congress was accusing him of breaking their law, but their law was unconstitutional, certainly at least in the sense of how the Constitution has been implemented from the very start with George Washington.

    The Magic M:

    Interesting legal question, but “violating the Constitution” is not a “high crime or misdemeanor” in itself as far as I understand it.

  139. avatar
    Paper December 11, 2013 at 4:23 pm #

    Plus, the Supreme Court in 1926, in majority opinion dicta in Myers v. United States, “that the Tenure of Office Act of 1867, insofar as it attempted to prevent the President from removing executive officers who had been appointed by him by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, was invalid.”

  140. avatar
    RanTalbott December 11, 2013 at 5:02 pm #

    Paul Pieniezny: I find it disturbing that the guy claims to be a semiologist

    Oh, you misunderstood: he’s not a semiologist in the sense of “a student of semiotics”. He’s a Redneck semiologist: “n. one who studies techniques for gittin’ away with doin’ stuff half-assed”.

  141. avatar
    Keith December 11, 2013 at 7:42 pm #

    Paper: The remedy is so easy and clear that it would only become an issue if the Chief Executive outright refused, in which case I think that such a willful and ridiculous refusal would become sufficient unto itself.

    If the President-elect refuses to take the oath of office, then the President-elect becomes the former President-elect and just another John Q. Citizen. The Presidency would then pass on to the Vice-President Elect.

  142. avatar
    Paper December 11, 2013 at 8:32 pm #

    From my readings, that would not be an automatic result. Such a president would have to be challenged and then removed by impeachment.

    Once Congress has certified the election, the clock does the rest. The president-elect becomes President precisely at noon on January 20, per the Twentieth Amendment. The oath does not make a president President.

    This state of affairs applies to all the other oath takers, as well. They assume their position upon confirmation and the sealing of their commissions. Not when they take their oaths.

    For details on this, see Akhil Amar’s discussion of exactly this point including reference to Obama’s flub in Chapter 9 (Interpreting Government Practices: America’s Institutional Constitution) of his book, America’s Unwritten Constitution. See particularly note 14 for that chapter.

    Keith: If the President-elect refuses to take the oath of office, then the President-elect becomes the former President-elect and just another John Q. Citizen. The Presidency would then pass on to the Vice-President Elect.

  143. avatar
    Paper December 11, 2013 at 8:55 pm #

    That, of course, blows a huge hole in Mr. Gonzalez’s premise.