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Breaking news: Taitz SSN gambit crashes and burns

Orly Taitz has been living and breathing conspiracy theories against the Social Security Administration for years now, filing countless lawsuits and FOIA requests. Just as she’s imagining that she’s about to close in on the elusive Social Security SS-5 application for Harrison J. Bounel that she believes is the real owner of Barack Obama’s social-security number, the rug has been well and truly pulled out from under her, so says private detective and blog commenter Rickey. Here’s what he has learned:

A couple of days ago I mentioned that I had ordered a copy of Harry Boymel’s SS-5 and the SSA sent me a notice that I should receive it within 30 days. Well, it arrived today.

Harry applied for his Social Security Number on July 11, 1941. Although the SS-5 form which was in use then had a space for entering the name and address of the applicant’s employer, Harry noted that he was unemployed at the time. He was living at 915 Elsmere Place, Bronx, N.Y., the same address where he was living at the time of the 1940 census. 915 Elsmere Place is near the corner of Daly Avenue, and many of us mistakenly believed that the census erroneously showed Harry living at 915 Daly Avenue. We knew that the Daly Avenue address was wrong because 915 Daly Avenue is a non-existent address, and one of the posters at The Fogbow finally figured out that the census actually had Harry at 915 Elsmere Place, although the enumerator misspelled his surname as “Bounel.”

Harry was born in Russia on September 15, 1886 to Isaak Boymel and Pearl Boymel. Harry did not know (or had forgotten) his mother’s maiden name. He checked off that he was married and he noted that his last full employment, as the proprietor of his own fruit & vegetable business, had ended ten days earlier.

Above his address he wrote “540,” which may have been his apartment number (the census page does not include apartment numbers).

His SSN was 080-18-6078, which of course bears no resemblance to Barack Obama’s SSN. It is likely that he did not apply for a Social Security Number earlier because he was self-employed and therefore not covered by Social Security. The fact that he applied for a number in 1941, ten days after his business shut down, suggests that he was anticipating going to work for someone else.

Well done Rickey, well done!

Here’s the Social Security Death Index record from Ancestry.com:

image

Here’s his naturalization record (click to see really big):

Update:

Orly Taitz, I think, has seen this article because she wrote an enigmatic article title on her blog:

Obama’s operatives are getting nervous, making up things, my data was crosschecked by different investigators in different countries, using different databases. Nice try boys, but it is time to end the charade, you will pull others down as well and will take them to prison with you

As far as I can tell, the entire Taitz conspiracy theory hinges on a single unidentified entry in a public database linking the name “Harrison J. Bounel” to Obama’s former social-security number. In an another entry a defective-looking date of birth “1890” appears (I say defective because it lacks the month and day). Taitz put 2 + cucumber together and got Harrison S. Bounel born 1890 as the rightful holder of Obama’s SSN; however, no one has been able to find that such a person exists, and the best Orly was able to do was a “Harry Bounel” (wrong first name and missing initial) entry in the 1940 census whose age is consistent with an 1890 birth date. The problem is that the name is wrong, and now as Rickey has shown, the social-security number is wrong too. My calculation is 2 – 1 – 1 = o.

Update 2:

Here is the Boymel SS-5 application.

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273 Responses to Breaking news: Taitz SSN gambit crashes and burns

  1. avatar
    Rickey February 13, 2014 at 7:43 pm #

    A couple of days ago I mentioned that I had ordered a copy of Harry Boymel’s SS-5 and the SSA sent me a notice that I should receive it within 30 days. Well, it arrived today.

    Harry applied for his Social Security Number on July 11, 1941. Although the SS-5 form which was in use then had a space for entering the name and address of the applicant’s employer, Harry noted that he was unemployed at the time. He was living at 915 Elsmere Place, Bronx, N.Y., the same address where he was living at the time of the 1940 census. 915 Elsmere Place is near the corner of Daly Avenue, and many of us mistakenly believed that the census erroneously showed Harry living at 915 Daly Avenue. We knew that the Daly Avenue address was wrong because 915 Daly Avenue is a non-existent address, and one of the posters at The Fogbow finally figured out that the census actually had Harry at 915 Elsmere Place, although the enumerator misspelled his surname as “Bounel.”

    Harry was born in Russia on September 15, 1886 to Isaak Boymel and Pearl Boymel. Harry did not know (or had forgotten) his mother’s maiden name. He checked off that he was married and he noted that his last full employment, as the proprietor of his own fruit & vegetable business, had ended ten days earlier.

    Above his address he wrote “540,” which may have been his apartment number (the census page does not include apartment numbers).

    His SSN was 080-18-6078, which of course bears no resemblance to Barack Obama’s SSN. It is likely that he did not apply for a Social Security Number earlier because he was self-employed and therefore not covered by Social Security. The fact that he applied for a number in 1941, ten days after his business shut down, suggests that he was anticipating going to work for someone else.

  2. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 13, 2014 at 10:04 pm #

    Congratulations on an excellent and fruitful investigation.

    Rickey: A couple of days ago I mentioned that I had ordered a copy of Harry Boymel’s SS-5 and the SSA sent me a notice that I should receive it within 30 days. Well, it arrived today.

  3. avatar
    Thinker February 13, 2014 at 10:09 pm #

    It is very surreal that Mr. Boymel would have his 15 minutes of fame years after his death. Interesting details. However…this will do nothing at all to dissuade Orly Taitz. She is claiming that Barack Obama is using the SSN of a person named Harry Bounel or Harrison J. Bounel, born in 1890, living at 915 Daley Ave. in the Bronx in 1940, working as a fruit stand helper. Mr. Boymel is not named Harry or Harrison J. Bounel. He was not born in 1890. He was born in 1886. He did not live at 915 Daley Ave. He lived as 915 Elsmere Place. He was not a fruit stand helper. He was a fruit stand proprietor. And, most importantly, he does not have a ‘CT’ SSN. He has a ‘NY’ SSN.

    I understand that Mr. Boymel is the person in the census record that the birthers consider sacred, but birthers will absolutely not believe it. I don’t expect that this will have any impact at all on birthers.

  4. avatar
    Joe Acerbic February 13, 2014 at 10:11 pm #

    Think this proves anything to birfoons, other than that the conspiracymacy is reeeally deep…?

  5. avatar
    American Mzungu February 13, 2014 at 10:13 pm #

    I’m sure you will receive a handwritten note from Orly thanking you for clearing up this mystery that had been eating away at her soul, keeping her awake at night. She may even employ you in the future to solve some of the many other riddles that keep her and other birthers in perpetual turmoil. A job well done will surely be rewarded, no?

  6. avatar
    Rickey February 13, 2014 at 10:28 pm #

    Thinker:
    It is very surreal that Mr. Boymel would have his 15 minutes of fame years after his death. Interesting details. However…this will do nothing at all to dissuade Orly Taitz. She is claiming that Barack Obama is using the SSN of a person named Harry Bounel or Harrison J. Bounel, born in 1890, living at 915 Daley Ave. in the Bronx in 1940, working as a fruit stand helper. Mr. Boymel is not named Harry or Harrison J. Bounel. He was not born in 1890. He was born in 1886. He did not live at 915 Daley Ave. He lived as 915 Elsmere Place. He was not a fruit stand helper. He was a fruit stand proprietor. And, most importantly, he does not have a ‘CT’ SSN. He has a ‘NY’ SSN.

    I understand that Mr. Boymel is the person in the census record that the birthers consider sacred, but birthers will absolutely not believe it. I don’t expect that this will have any impact at all on birthers.

    I wonder if Orly realizes that 915 Daly Avenue doesn’t exist and never has existed. If she looks at the previous page of the census, she’ll see that it was actually 915 Elsmere Place. What are the chances that there were two men named Harry living at the same address, each born in Russia, each having a last name which begins with “Bo” and has six letters, and each worked in a fruit store?

    That said, I agree that it will not have any impact on birthers. I ordered it to satisfy my own curiosity.

  7. avatar
    CarlOrcas February 13, 2014 at 10:30 pm #

    Thinker: I understand that Mr. Boymel is the person in the census record that the birthers consider sacred, but birthers will absolutely not believe it. I don’t expect that this will have any impact at all on birthers.

    It will be interesting to see how they spin this.

    So far nothing from lawyer Taitz. She’s too busy trying to gather signatures and raise money for her Quixotic quest for California AG. I think the clock runs out for her shortly.

  8. avatar
    Rickey February 13, 2014 at 10:30 pm #

    American Mzungu:
    I’m sure you will receive a handwritten note from Orly thanking you for clearing up this mystery that had been eating away at her soul, keeping her awake at night.She may even employ you in the future to solve some of the many other riddles that keep her and other birthers in perpetual turmoil.A job well done will surely be rewarded, no?

    I shudder at the thought of trying to get Orly to pay my bill!

  9. avatar
    Thinker February 13, 2014 at 11:10 pm #

    About a year ago, one of Taitz’s flying monkeys tracked down somebody listed on that census sheet–an elderly woman now living in Florida I think. According to Taitz herself, this woman said she didn’t think the building was on Daley Ave. but apparently couldn’t remember the actual street name. Since this woman told Taitz she was an Obama supporter and had no recollection of her neighbors from 70 years ago, Taitz concluded that the woman was a brainwashed Jewish Democrat who was clearly hiding information about Harry Bounel to protect usurper Obama, so I don’t think she ever pursued the idea that the street name was wrong.

    Rickey: I wonder if Orly realizes that 915 Daly Avenue doesn’t exist and never has existed. If she looks at the previous page of the census, she’ll see that it was actually 915 Elsmere Place.

  10. avatar
    John Reilly February 14, 2014 at 12:34 am #

    This is, of course, the result of basing your entire case on a fact over which you have no control.

    Sort of like the WND Where’s The Birth Certificate campaign.

  11. avatar
    Sam the Centipede February 14, 2014 at 1:33 am #

    Of course the birthers will see through this ploy! “Rickey” is clearly master forger Roxy using a subtly different name!

    A masterpiece of deception from the criminal obots!! How clever to use facts, official records, reality, reason, etc. when we know that the path to the truth is paved with racist hatred.

    More seriously, well done! It won’t change the birthers’ mindset but it’s a good giggle and it cannot hurt.

  12. avatar
    Lyssandri February 14, 2014 at 2:32 am #

    Well done, Rickey! It’s actually nice to see that there is an explanation for the fragments of info that makes sense.

  13. avatar
    Lupin February 14, 2014 at 3:07 am #

    I hereby present the Harry Boymel Memorial Award to Ricky for unflagging devotion and sterling research in the Great Obot Cause.

  14. avatar
    ArthurWankspittle February 14, 2014 at 3:16 am #

    American Mzungu:
    A job well done will surely be rewarded, no?

    Dinner with Orly?

  15. avatar
    nbc February 14, 2014 at 4:33 am #

    ArthurWankspittle: Dinner with Orly?

    Could be worse… Free dental cleaning for example..

  16. avatar
    American Mzungu February 14, 2014 at 6:14 am #

    nbc: ArthurWankspittle: Dinner with Orly?

    Could be worse… Free dental cleaning for example..

    It’s the thought that counts.

  17. avatar
    Reality Check February 14, 2014 at 8:18 am #

    I see Taitz is taking the defeat with her usual graciousness. :lol:

  18. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 14, 2014 at 8:25 am #

    Putting aside my life principle, “it’s not about me,” I think that this title at the Taitz web site IS about me:

    “Obama’s operatives are getting nervous, making up things, my data was crosschecked by different investigators in different countries, using different databases. Nice try boys, but it is time to end the charade, you will pull others down as well and will take them to prison with you”

    http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/?p=447006

  19. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 14, 2014 at 8:42 am #

    I don’t know if this has any significance, but in Russian handwriting, the letter “u” looks like a “y.” Also, in Russian handwriting to make the sound “boy,” the “o” would be followed by a short e, which looks like an Latin “u” with a short sign over it.

  20. avatar
    Lupin February 14, 2014 at 9:33 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Nice try boys, but it is time to end the charade, you will pull others down as well and will take them to prison with you”

    Is that a veiled threat?

  21. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 14, 2014 at 9:36 am #

    I don’t think Orly would make veiled threats–she is extremely anti-Mulsim.

    Lupin: Is that a veiled threat?

  22. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG February 14, 2014 at 9:38 am #

    The hateful old bitch will probably keel over from the stress one of these days.
    She’s regularly going on about how this is all taking its toll on her.

  23. avatar
    Jim February 14, 2014 at 9:47 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Putting aside my life principle, “it’s not about me,” I think that this title at the Taitz web site IS about me:

    “Obama’s operatives are getting nervous, making up things, my data was crosschecked by different investigators in different countries, using different databases. Nice try boys, but it is time to end the charade, you will pull others down as well and will take them to prison with you”

    http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/?p=447006

    Nice try Orly, but all you have to show for 5 years of misreading and misunderstanding is a big, fat nothing. Hope you’re enjoying President Obama’s time in the White House!

    Which makes me wonder, could Rickey have killed 2 birds with one stone? Maybe the SSN angle was what Zullo is trying to fool the birthers with next month…or year…or decade…any lifetime now!

  24. avatar
    alg February 14, 2014 at 9:49 am #

    Obviously, Mr. Boymel’s very existence is a complete, 100% forgery committed by a person of interest. :-)

  25. avatar
    ASK Esq February 14, 2014 at 9:54 am #

    Doc, correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Orly conflate two erroneous database entries to come up with Harrison Bounel being born in 1890? I thought the 1890 birth year showed up for Obama on one database, and Harrison Bounel showed up on another. But, as there has been so much nonsense thrown by the birthers, perhaps I’m mistaken.

  26. avatar
    Scribunda February 14, 2014 at 10:05 am #

    Except the birthers seem to have found Harry Boymel first. When Boymel came up at Fogbow, I found a comment by “Patriarch” on the blog below, referring to a post at “ObamaReleaseYourRecords”:

    http://pieczenik.blogspot.com/2013/01/congratulations-to-algerian-government.html

    “As long as we have gone off on tangents, there is news you will not hear on your favorite tv station:
    “Obama’s” ss# is IDENTITY FRAUD, a felony.
    No one is above the law.

    The ss# belonged to a Russian Jewish immigrant named “Harry Bounel” Harry Boymel born Lubnar, Russia September 18, 1886. Immigrated October 18, 1910 with 2 children. His Russian name is Gersch Baumel. Occupation: FRUIT DEALER.”

    So, they knew but decided to keep quiet about it. Also, Orly herself has mentioned the address is probably Elsmere. The naturalization record for Louis Julius, who was head of household” in the 1940 census Orly uses, says his address is 915 Elsmere.

    And if they don’t trust Rickey, they can request the SSN record for themselves. It would be quite a long game if the government was forging records to mislead Orly about Harry Bounell long before Obama was born. Although no one will ever change Orly’s warped “mind” or the “minds” of other birthers, it just adds to the evidence that would be used to shred any argument they offered if they were ever to succeed in mounting a successful case. (Note, I am using the subjunctive “were” to indicate a doubtful condition.)

  27. avatar
    Majority Will February 14, 2014 at 10:10 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I don’t think Orly would make veiled threats–she is extremely anti-Mulsim.

    Bah dum CHING!!

    Mecca no mistake. She does try to prophet from her stupidity.

  28. avatar
    Majority Will February 14, 2014 at 10:13 am #

    “Nice try boys, but it is time to end the charade, you will pull others down as well and will take them to prison with you”

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! What a moron.

  29. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater February 14, 2014 at 10:13 am #

    Doc,
    It was always my understanding that the 1890 date had nothing to do with Bounel but was rather Orly’s chaining together of different data.

    The 1890 appeared on one of the entries that Susan Daniels pulled up on Obama. The number obviously a filler or typo was the only thing linking the 1890 date to Obama.

    It was at this point Orly started claiming that Obama was using a social of a deadman from CT. Her followers then dug around and came up with Jean Paul Ludwig which they used for a while under it was shown that Jean Paul Ludwig’s social was different.

    It was then years later when Hendershott found the Harrison Bounel information on the piece of property the Obama’s owned.

    Orly already having her previous storyline then claimed Harrison Bounel was the dead man that Obama stole the social from. She then started trying to connect the 1890 date from years ago to Bounel and most likely came across this other “Bounel” in NY. That is my read of things. I don’t think there was an original connection between 1890 and Bounel in the original search by Hendershott and Orly as usual jumped to conclusions.

  30. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater February 14, 2014 at 10:20 am #

    ASK Esq: Doc, correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Orly conflate two erroneous database entries to come up with Harrison Bounel being born in 1890? I thought the 1890 birth year showed up for Obama on one database, and Harrison Bounel showed up on another. But, as there has been so much nonsense thrown by the birthers, perhaps I’m mistaken.

    That was my understanding as well. As I mentioned above the 1890 came from the Susan Daniels search years earlier before “Bounel” showed up in the database. “Bounel” showed up years later in Hendershott’s search. The two items were never related it was her theory that Obama was using a dead guy’s social that made her tie the two together. As soon as the Jean Paul Ludwig claim fell apart she retconned Bounel into the story.

  31. avatar
    Majority Will February 14, 2014 at 10:26 am #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: and Orly as usual jumped to conclusions.

    So basically, what rational people are saying is that she is incredibly and stunningly incompetent with a near 100% failure rate?

  32. avatar
    Bob February 14, 2014 at 10:27 am #

    Orly will never mention the name “Bounel” again. There will never be another post about it. Childishly, she will never address this.

  33. avatar
    Scribunda February 14, 2014 at 10:51 am #

    Bob:
    Orly will never mention the name “Bounel” again.There will never be another post about it.Childishly, she will never address this.

    I disagree that she will never mention the name Bounel again. It is the only name she will mention. She will never mention the name Boymel and she will never try to get a copy of his SSN to see for herself. Or, if she does, she will never tell anyone about it.

    She has vested too much of her “credibility” in making the Bounel case, filing lawsuits entirely based on the flawed premise and threatening people at the SSA with imprisonment for treason if they do not give her the non-existent Bounel’s records. Every case she has filed since she discovered the flawed 1940 census record contains the Bounel allegation.

    As a lawyer, isn’t she actually required to correct misinformation she has presented when she becomes aware of it? (Not that Orly does anything else a real lawyer is supposed to do.) A real lawyer would investigate this information and, if intelligent, would realize Bounel = Boymel and then they would withdraw their complaint or amend it to remove the false accusation.

  34. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 14, 2014 at 11:10 am #

    Yes, thanks for jogging my memory. I’ve updated the article.

    ASK Esq: Doc, correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Orly conflate two erroneous database entries to come up with Harrison Bounel being born in 1890?

  35. avatar
    Scribunda February 14, 2014 at 11:20 am #

    Rickey: I wonder if Orly realizes that 915 Daly Avenue doesn’t exist and never has existed. If she looks at the previous page of the census, she’ll see that it was actually 915 Elsmere Place. What are the chances that there were two men named Harry living at the same address, each born in Russia, each having a last name which begins with “Bo” and has six letters, and each worked in a fruit store?

    Then there is the fact that Louis Julius, who Harry Bounel is said to reside with in 1940, lists his address in his naturalization application as “915 Elsmere Place.” I am sure if you looked up other names on that 1940 census page, you would find that they previously had an address of “915 Elsmere Place,” too. That would establish conclusively that “Harry Bounel” resided at 915 Elsmere Place, apparently with his friend “Harry Boymel” if you are to continue believing “Harry Bounel” is a separate person.

    But we’re talking about someone who believes there are two people named Barack Obama–one in Indonesia and one in the White House. She will never believe two names could equal one person.

  36. avatar
    Hermitian February 14, 2014 at 11:23 am #

    So you Obots are claiming that Bounel and Boymel are the same person ? Well, if so, then not only did Boymel forget his mother’s maiden name but he also forgot his own age. The years 1886 and 1890 are not the same. Why would Harry lie to the census taker about his own age ? Maybe he was involved in criminal activity for four years. Or possibly he had served four years in the pokey. That would explain why he was living with his relatives sans wife and kids.

  37. avatar
    Arthur February 14, 2014 at 12:27 pm #

    Doc has an article about the creation of the Harry Bounel myth here:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2013/12/who-or-why-or-which-or-what-is-harrison-j-bounel/

  38. avatar
    Curious George February 14, 2014 at 1:22 pm #

    Rickey
    Congrats. A job well done!

  39. avatar
    Reality Check February 14, 2014 at 1:47 pm #

    I agree. Great job Rickey!

    This SS# – Harrison Bounel BS has become Orly’s main schtick in the last couple of years. It has now been completely destroyed.

    Curious George:
    Rickey
    Congrats.A job well done!

  40. avatar
    Rickey February 14, 2014 at 1:48 pm #

    Hermitian:
    So you Obots are claiming that Bounel and Boymel are the same person ?Well, if so, then not only did Boymel forget his mother’s maiden name but he also forgot his own age.The years 1886 and 1890 are not the same.Why would Harry lie to the census taker about his own age ?Maybe he was involved in criminal activity for four years.Or possibly he had served four years in the pokey.That would explain why he was living with his relatives sans wife and kids.

    He didn’t forget his own age. He never spoke to the census enumerator in 1940. The enumerator interviewed the landlady, who obviously guessed at Harry’s age.

    Also, if he was born in 1890 he would have been 49 at the time of the 1940 census, not 50, because the census was done during the first quarter of the year and Harry’s birthday was in September. In fact he was 53 at the time of the census, so his landlady was off by only three years.

  41. avatar
    Rickey February 14, 2014 at 1:55 pm #

    Sam the Centipede:
    Of course the birthers will see through this ploy! “Rickey” is clearly master forger Roxy using a subtly different name!

    “Rickey” and “Roxy” – too similar to be a coincidence?

  42. avatar
    JPotter February 14, 2014 at 2:18 pm #

    Hermitian: So you Obots are claiming that Bounel and Boymel are the same person ?

    Herms, have you ever rejected any birfer meme? The ravings of Nancy Ruth Owens, SvenMag, and Trowbridge; Orly’s version of anything; the CCCP’s explanations for that which needs no explaining; Vogt’s rambling, Manning’s, Corsi’s; wild explanations for Kenyan birth despite Hawaiian residence; domestic birth but to a father other than BHO, Sr.; and, lately, claims that his mother was a cultist a/o wasn’t really his mother.

    They literally can’t all be true. None of them are true, but even setting that aside, you must pick and choose among birfer memes, as they are all in conflict. It’s impossible for them all to be true.

    So, Herms, what standard do you use when choosing memes to adopt? And please, name a few that you reject. Or, admit that you don’t care about truth, and are willing to support anything that smears Obama.

  43. avatar
    Rickey February 14, 2014 at 2:22 pm #

    Thanks for the compliments, but don’t give me too much credit. I wasn’t the one who figured out that “Bounel” was actually “Boymel.”

    I did know that 915 Daly Avenue is a non-existent address. My original hypothesis was that the address was actually 915 E. Tremont Avenue, which is as the corner of E. Tremont Avenue and Daly Avenue. I was close, though – Elsmere Place is one short block south of E. Tremont.

    I originally assumed that the enumerator had gotten the address mixed up. The census page says “Daly Avenue” on it, although it is faint. But that page is a continuation of the previous page, and someone smarter than me took at look at the previous page and saw that was 915 Elsmere Place. On close inspection it looks like somebody wrote “Daly Avenue” on the page in pencil and then tried to erase it but wasn’t able to erase it completely.

    We know from other documents that Louis Julius, who was Harry’s landlord, lived at 915 Elsmere Place in 1940, so the census page which contains Harry’s name clearly is 915 Elsmere Place. It could not possible be 915 Daly Avenue because as noted that address never existed.

    The street numbers in New York City are very logical and consistent. If 915 Daly Avenue had ever existed, it would have been near E. 163rd Street. However, the southern tip of Daly Avenue ends at the Cross Bronx Expressway, two miles north of E. 163rd Street.

    So if Harry and Louis Julius didn’t live at 915 Daly Avenue, where did they live? The obvious conclusion, when all the available records are pieced together, is that they lived at 915 Elsmere Place.

    To continue to believe that Harry Boymel and Harry Bounel are two different people, you have to believe that there were two men named Harry living at 915 Elsmere Place, both immigrants from Russia, each having a last name containing six letters that began with the letters “Bo,” each having the same approximate age, and each working in the fruit business.

    Also, if there were two different men named “Harry” living at 915 Elsmere Place in 1940, why does the census list only one?

  44. avatar
    gorefan February 14, 2014 at 2:29 pm #

    “although the enumerator misspelled his surname as “Bounel.””

    Isn’t there some question as to whether the name in the 1940 census is Bounel or Bommel?

  45. avatar
    Rickey February 14, 2014 at 2:38 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I don’t know if this has any significance, but in Russian handwriting, the letter “u” looks like a “y.” Also, in Russian handwriting to make the sound “boy,” the “o” would be followed by a short e, which looks like an Latin “u” with a short sign over it.

    Harry’s signature on the SS-5 is pretty clear, although the “o” and “y” in his last name run together. Half of the SS-5 is printed neatly and half is in pretty legible handwriting – much better than my penmanship!

    My scanner isn’t working, but if you’d like to post the SS-5 I can mail it to you if you e-mail your address to me.

  46. avatar
    Rickey February 14, 2014 at 2:42 pm #

    gorefan:
    “although the enumerator misspelled his surname as “Bounel.””

    Isn’t there some question as to whether the name in the 1940 census is Bounel or Bommel?

    Not any more. That was one of the spellings we were speculating about, but there isn’t any record of anyone named Harry Bommel.

  47. avatar
    JPotter February 14, 2014 at 2:51 pm #

    Rest in peace, Harry, all is again well-settled.

    Poor man has come to realize the curse, “may you afterlife in interesting times.”

  48. avatar
    Greenfinches February 14, 2014 at 2:59 pm #

    JPotter: anything that smears Obama

    His test for such a ‘smear’ is not mine. His father could have been Malcolm X and there been no marriage to Ann Dunham, and that have made no difference to me. My concerns about the President are related to some of his policies, not his family circumstances!

  49. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG February 14, 2014 at 3:17 pm #

    Hermitian:
    So you Obots are claiming that Bounel and Boymel are the same person ?Well, if so, then not only did Boymel forget his mother’s maiden name but he also forgot his own age.The years 1886 and 1890 are not the same.Why would Harry lie to the census taker about his own age ?Maybe he was involved in criminal activity for four years.Or possibly he had served four years in the pokey.That would explain why he was living with his relatives sans wife and kids.

    Birther logic sure is full of a lot of “ifs” and “maybes”. Anyone else notice that too? What are you doing back here, Hermitan? Glutton for punishment?

  50. avatar
    Jim February 14, 2014 at 3:25 pm #

    Hermitian:
    So you Obots are claiming that Bounel and Boymel are the same person ?

    No, we are saying that we found a person, Harry Boymel, who fits all the criteria set forth by the birthers and who actually existed, had a SSN (that wasn’t Obama’s), and was a living, breathing human being. Birthers, on the other hand, have come up with a name that they can tie to no one and can find no records for. To put it simply for you Hermie, we’ve come up with a person that existed and you’ve come up with a figment of your imagination…I think the real person is more believable than your fake one.

  51. avatar
    Thinker February 14, 2014 at 3:33 pm #

    Any day now, Hermie.

    Any,

    Day.

    Now.

  52. avatar
    roadburner February 14, 2014 at 3:36 pm #

    JPotter:
    Rest in peace, Harry, all is again well-settled.

    Poor man has come to realize the curse, “may you afterlife in interesting times.”

    he´s starting to gain afterlife fame like my favourite western outlaw…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmer_mccurdy

    gained more fame dead than when he was alive :D

  53. avatar
    Majority Will February 14, 2014 at 3:54 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Birther logic sure is full of a lot of “ifs” and “maybes”. Anyone else notice that too? What are you doing back here, Hermitan? Glutton for punishment?

    All scarecrow and no straw.

  54. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG February 14, 2014 at 4:23 pm #

    Majority Will: All scarecrow and no straw.

    No Mrs. King for that matter.

  55. avatar
    Majority Will February 14, 2014 at 5:21 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: No Mrs. King for that matter.

    Fun 80s TV trivia.

  56. avatar
    justlw February 14, 2014 at 5:34 pm #

    “My calculation is 2 – 1 – 1 = o.”

    You forgot to carry the cucumber!

  57. avatar
    Rickey February 14, 2014 at 5:55 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Putting aside my life principle, “it’s not about me,” I think that this title at the Taitz web site IS about me:

    “Obama’s operatives are getting nervous, making up things, my data was crosschecked by different investigators in different countries, using different databases. Nice try boys, but it is time to end the charade, you will pull others down as well and will take them to prison with you”

    Orly doesn’t realize that using different databases isn’t the same as independently verifying information. LexisNexis, Intelius, etc. differ in some respects but they get their data from essentially the same sources. If I get an address for someone from LexisNexis I never assume that it is correct. I try to correlate it with information from other sources, such as DMV, voter registration records, property records, etc. And then I send some out to verify the address in person.

    As far as i can tell, Susan Daniels, John Sampson, Al Hendershot, and Neil Sankey did no independent verification whatsoever, although I recall that Sankey warned Orly not to make too much of the database searches (she ignored his advice, of course).

    Orly has no evidence that “Harry Bounel” or “Harrison J. Bounel” ever existed.

    Orly has no evidence which connects the names “Harry Bounel” or “Harrison J. Bounel” to Obama’s SSN.

    Incidentally, LexisNexis has no record of “Harry Bounel” or “Harrison Bounel” but it does have a record of Harry Boymel, even though Boymel died in 1978. If, as Orly believes, Bounel was issued a Social Security Number in 1977 or thereabouts, why is there no record of him anywhere?

  58. avatar
    Hermitian February 14, 2014 at 6:27 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Birther logic sure is full of a lot of “ifs” and “maybes

    Hey! I’m not the one who is claiming that the census records are wrong ! Where’s your proof ? The Obot version is pure conjecture.

    The census taker got the wrong street, made up a ficticious address, used a pencil to write down the street name — but used ink otherwise…

    You can’t make this stuff up. Only an Obot could craft such a fairy tale.

  59. avatar
    aarrgghh February 14, 2014 at 6:44 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Birther logic sure is full of a lot of “ifs” and “maybes”.

    birfer logic becomes quite clear once you realize that “if” and “maybe” in birferspeak really mean “because” and “since”

  60. avatar
    ARNOLD CARL TAPP February 14, 2014 at 6:50 pm #

    >>> SO WHAT ??? BIG DEAL . <<< THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER USED BY obummer IS DEFINITELY FROM CONNECTICUT , WHERE o ' booboo HAS NEVER LIVED AND NEVER WORKED . THERE ARE SEVERAL OTHER SS NUMBERS ATTACHED TO THE LYING , INELIGIBLE , FRAUDULENT IMPOSTER .,
    —- SOCIAL SECURITY FRAUD IS A VERY SERIOUS FEDERAL OFFENSE .

  61. avatar
    sfjeff February 14, 2014 at 7:32 pm #

    ARNOLD CARL TAPP: >>> SO WHAT ??? BIG DEAL . <<< THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER USED BY obummer IS DEFINITELY FROM CONNECTICUT , WHERE o ' booboo HAS NEVER LIVED AND NEVER WORKED . THERE ARE SEVERAL OTHER SS NUMBERS ATTACHED TO THE LYING , INELIGIBLE , FRAUDULENT IMPOSTER .,
    —- SOCIAL SECURITY FRAUD IS A VERY SERIOUS FEDERAL OFFENSE .

    Seriously- all caps and kindergarten level use names like ‘obummer’?

    If you really think that a crime has been committed, then I will tell you exactly what I have said to other like minded Birthers.

    Go immediately to your closest FBI office and report it. File a criminal complaint.

    Do the same thing with the Social Security Administration.

    So far all we have seen is lots of Birther blowhards who like Zullo like to make big claims but do nothing but talk.

    What is it they call that in Texas- ‘big hat, no cattle’…..

    Just sad.

  62. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 14, 2014 at 7:45 pm #

    You’re not reading the other comments carefully enough. Or you’re just being trollish. Anyway, back in the box.

    Hermitian: The census taker got the wrong street, made up a ficticious address, used a pencil to write down the street name — but used ink otherwise…

  63. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 14, 2014 at 7:46 pm #

    He always does that. My inbox is full of his forwarded nonsense, in all caps.

    sfjeff: Seriously- all caps and kindergarten level use names like ‘obummer’?

  64. avatar
    CarlOrcas February 14, 2014 at 7:47 pm #

    sfjeff: Seriously- all caps and kindergarten level use names like ‘obummer’?

    I know this may come as a surprise to the gentle folks here but a quick Bing search for ARNOLD CARL TAPP returns 89,600 hits and a cursory search leads me to believe he is…….well, a birther!!! And, gasp……a racist!!

    Shocking…..ain’t it?

  65. avatar
    Thinker February 14, 2014 at 8:12 pm #

    Hermie: The address 915 Daley Ave never existed. People familiar with the Bronx pointed this out over a year ago but birthers ignored it. When Taitz talked with an elderly woman whose name is listed on that census sheet, the woman told her that she didn’t think she lived on Daley Ave, but Taitz did what she always does with evidence she doesn’t like–she ignored it because it didn’t fit the ludicrous narrative she had cooked up in her head.

    As for your comment about pen and pencil, I wouldn’t draw any conclusions about pens or pencils myself, but a cursory glance at the census sheet is all it takes to see that the street name on that census sheet was written by a different person with a different writing instrument than the rest of that sheet. Even if you believe Harry Bounel existed as listed on that sheet, these anomalies about the street name are there. They are not a fairy tale. My guess is that the census taker forgot to write the street name on the sheet and Daley Ave was written on it some time later by someone else who was organizing the papers. The sheet was eventually placed in the right order among the census papers, but whoever did that didn’t correct the street name written on it.

    Hermitian: Hey!I’m not the one who is claiming that the census records are wrong !Where’s your proof ?The Obot version is pure conjecture.

    The census taker got the wrong street, made up a ficticious address, used a pencil to write down the street name — but used ink otherwise…

    You can’t make this stuff up.Only an Obot could craft such a fairy tale.

  66. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 14, 2014 at 8:17 pm #

    I resemble that remark!

    sfjeff: What is it they call that in Texas- ‘big hat, no cattle’…..

  67. avatar
    BillTheCat February 14, 2014 at 8:33 pm #

    ARNOLD CARL TAPP:
    >>>SOWHAT???BIGDEAL . <<<THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER USED BY obummerIS DEFINITELY FROM CONNECTICUT , WHERE o ‘ boobooHAS NEVER LIVED AND NEVER WORKED . THERE ARE SEVERAL OTHER SS NUMBERS ATTACHED TO THE LYING , INELIGIBLE , FRAUDULENT IMPOSTER .,
    —-SOCIAL SECURITY FRAUD IS A VERY SERIOUS FEDERAL OFFENSE .

    Take your meds and head back to your room, dude, the other patients want to get on the internet tonight.

  68. avatar
    BillTheCat February 14, 2014 at 8:36 pm #

    Hermitian: The Obot version is pure conjecture…

    …could craft such a fairy tale.

    Ugh, another irony meter busted.

  69. avatar
    CarlOrcas February 14, 2014 at 8:38 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I resemble that remark!

    From my short time in Big D it is my recollection that the term is “All hat, no cattle.”

    Not, of course, that I am suggesting that it could possibly apply to you. Honest. Really.

  70. avatar
    CarlOrcas February 14, 2014 at 8:41 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    He always does that. My inbox is full of his forwarded nonsense, in all caps.

    I figure they all come from the Retired Teletype Operator’s Home. Check the IP address quick!

  71. avatar
    Publius February 14, 2014 at 8:52 pm #

    Jim: Nice try Orly, but all you have to show for 5 years of misreading and misunderstanding is a big, fat nothing. Hope you’re enjoying President Obama’s time in the White House!

    Someday Orly will wake up to the fact that she spent years of her life on a bunch of BS.

    Or, maybe she won’t. Probably she won’t. She’s way too invested in the birther narrative to be inconvenienced by little things like facts.

  72. avatar
    Andrew Morris February 14, 2014 at 9:14 pm #

    I wouldn’t bank on that Publius. She’s now started up on the Peta Lindsey case and how it shows she was treated treasonously because while Lindsey was thrown off the ballot for being too young, Obama was allowed to stay on DESPITE OVERWHELMING PROOF FROM THE ACTING DEPUTY CHIEF INVESTIGATOR FOR THE US AMATEUR NUTCASE SOCIETY. The moron doesn’t understand the issues. Which I suppose means one of two things. Someone did her law exams for her, or she’s experiencing a catastrophic mental breakdown. I kind of lean towards the former. This woman assumes that if you read the first word, you know the millions that follow. Any lawyer can get it wrong – half of all litigants lose – but the issue here is that she doesn’t understand anything that she allegedly studied.

  73. avatar
    serosa February 14, 2014 at 9:35 pm #

    This is hardly breaking news.

    Back in January a poster called Fre at Fogbow posted his well-sourced work showing the 1940 census Harry Bounel was actually Harry Boymel. http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=9775&hilit=harry+boymel&start=475#p575638

    A person named Rickey commented in the thread and talked of getting the ss-5 for Harry Boymel. Shame on Rickey for taking credit for the work and links already posted at Fogbow. All Rickey did was send off for the ss information using the ss number Fre posted. Which is fine, it’s proof-positve Fre was correct, but to take credit for being an ace investigator “solving” the Bounel case is just wrong.

  74. avatar
    Rickey February 14, 2014 at 9:47 pm #

    Hermitian: Hey!I’m not the one who is claiming that the census records are wrong !Where’s your proof ?The Obot version is pure conjecture.

    The census taker got the wrong street, made up a ficticious address, used a pencil to write down the street name — but used ink otherwise…

    You can’t make this stuff up.Only an Obot could craft such a fairy tale.

    Here you go, Hermie. This is the New York City website where you can look up any address in any of the boroughs.

    http://webapps.nyc.gov:8084/CICS/fin1/find001I

    From the drop-own Borough menu, choose Bronx.

    For the street number, enter 915.

    For the street name, enter Daly Avenue

    The click on Search.

    The result: “ADDRESS NUMBER OUT OF RANGE.”

    There is no 915 Daly Avenue. There never has been.

    The lowest number on Daly Avenue is 1892. Look it up. Check it on Google Maps. Double-check and verify. That is how real investigators work.

    And the census taker didn’t get the street name wrong. She wrote it down correctly on the previous page. Somebody mistakenly wrote “Daly Avenue” on the page, but when you look at in conjunction with the previous page it is obvious to even the most dense birther that it is a continuation of the census for 915 Elsmere Place.

  75. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG February 14, 2014 at 9:54 pm #

    Uh oh…Evidence.
    Well we all know what happens next folks! Hermitian will slink back under his rock until the next time.

  76. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 14, 2014 at 10:14 pm #

    That remark is outrageous and completely false. If you took the time to read this thread, you will see that Rickey clearly credits those sources and downplays his role.

    serosa: Shame on Rickey for taking credit for the work and links already posted at Fogbow.

  77. avatar
    Rickey February 14, 2014 at 11:06 pm #

    serosa:

    A person named Rickey commented in the thread and talked of getting the ss-5 for Harry Boymel. Shame on Rickey for taking credit for the work and links already posted at Fogbow. All Rickey did was send off for the ss information using the ss number Fre posted.Which is fine, it’s proof-positve Fre was correct, but to take credit for being an ace investigator “solving” the Bounel case is just wrong.

    That was me who commented at The Fogbow, and if you read my notes here you will see that I never claimed to be the person who discovered that “Harry Bounel” was really Harry Boymel. In fact, I have specifically stated that it was not me, and at The Fogbow I complimented Fre for making that discovery.

    What I did was to tie up some loose ends by obtaining the SS-5, which establishes beyond a doubt that Harry Boymel lives at 915 Elsmere Place and that he was a fruit dealer.

    I also did the research which confirmed that 915 Daly Avenue is a non-existent address and that it never was a real address.

  78. avatar
    Scribunda February 15, 2014 at 12:27 am #

    serosa:
    This is hardly breaking news.

    Back in January a poster called Fre at Fogbow posted his well-sourced work showing the 1940 census Harry Bounel was actually Harry Boymel.http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=9775&hilit=harry+boymel&start=475#p575638

    A person named Rickey commented in the thread and talked of getting the ss-5 for Harry Boymel. Shame on Rickey for taking credit for the work and links already posted at Fogbow. All Rickey did was send off for the ss information using the ss number Fre posted.Which is fine, it’s proof-positve Fre was correct, but to take credit for being an ace investigator “solving” the Bounel case is just wrong.

    Birthers were onto the Bounel-Boymel connection in mid-2013. So? Rickey has been incredibly humble about all of it, but deserves credit for taking the time to obtain a solid piece of evidence that definitively puts Boymel at 915 Elsmore in 1941 (merely a year after the census), indicates he was married but living independent of his wife (just like “Bounel”), and was a fruit vendor (just like “Bounel”).

    Without Rickey’s SSN application, which I would like to see posted to establish its veracity, we could only hypothesize Boymel was Bounel. There was no solid proof.

    The chances of, as Rickey said, two people named Harry Bo—l of approximately the same age, having emigrated at the same time from the same country, both married yet living apart from their spouse, and both identified as fruit vendors just happening to reside at the same address at the same time are incredibly slim.

    The SSN document that essentially confirms Boymel is “Bounel” also proves he does not have the same SSN as Obama and most certainly is not Hendershot’s Bounel. Interestingly, I believe Orly was cautioned by Hendershot not to make too much of it, and I believe Zullo the Clown said the Bounel claim was a dead end.

    So, will Orly admit she was wrong? Not a chance. Will you admit you were wrong about Rickey? I hope so. I really hope you are a step or two above Orly Taitz.

  79. avatar
    Rickey February 15, 2014 at 1:43 am #

    Scribunda:

    Without Rickey’s SSN application, which I would like to see posted to establish its veracity, we could only hypothesize Boymel was Bounel. There was no solid proof.

    I sent it to Doc today, and he is planning on posting it. You should see it here in a few days.

  80. avatar
    Notorial Dissent February 15, 2014 at 3:18 am #

    As someone who has used the census records literally for decades, I can attest that they are a very valuable and useful item, or can be, or they can be an incredible headache. Most early census takers were either locals with pull, or some education, but not necessarily, and I have seen some examples of what can only be described as perfect copperplate penmanship, and I have seen far more that were barely legible. In more recent times because of the magnitude of the project, many people were pressed in to the task who really should not have been, mainly because of poor penmanship and even poorer education. I have researched some series of records that would be absolutely useless for any legal purpose as they were so badly and haphazardly done. I have several of my family, that if I hadn’t known who I was looking for and where I wouldn’t have recognized them on the census record it was so poorly taken and done. Ages are also problematic as I have seen reports for people I had definite information on that were in some cases completely in error on the census itself, did they give the taker the wrong information, or was it taken down incorrectly, or just made up, at this remove no way to tell, but further examination of that report generally indicates poorly done, so even though the information was reported, it may not be even remotely accurate. One of my ancestors birth place jumped all over Europe from year to year, who knows. That is why the Bounel census should only be taken as a possibility until actual concrete information is found to support it, and in this case, it was by other people, that debunk very effectively, in my opinion, Orly’s fantasy.

    The census is a useful starting point, but it is not an absolute unassailable record, despite what the mad Moldavian would have us believe, anymore than the skip tracer databases are inerrant.

  81. avatar
    interestedbystander February 15, 2014 at 4:51 am #

    It is of no concern ….

  82. avatar
    Hermitian February 15, 2014 at 8:32 am #

    Rickey: Orly has no evidence that “Harry Bounel” or “Harrison J. Bounel” ever existed.

    Except for maybe the census records and tons of stuff from her contacts in Russia ? And then there’s Al Hendershot’s data base search results.

    Just saying …

  83. avatar
    HistorianDude February 15, 2014 at 8:52 am #

    Hermitian: Except for maybe the census records and tons of stuff from her contacts in Russia ?And then there’s Al Hendershot’s data base search results.

    Just saying …

    The census record has now been conclusively exposed as a misspelling and the “tons of stuff from her contacts in Russia” are simply a figment of your imagination.

    So we are left with Hendershot’s skip trace as the only piece of evidence in the known the universe for the existence on anybody ever named “Harrison Bounel.” i.e. a database blip that he seems incapable at this point of repeating.

    Good luck with that.

  84. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 15, 2014 at 8:52 am #

    Well, let’s start with the elephant in the room. The Census record says “Harry S Bounel” and the public database record says “Harrison J. Bounel.” Even allowing, contrary to any evidence that Harry is a nickname,” the middle initial is wrong. You cannot claim that the Census Record is accurate, the public database is accurate and that they are the same person. So drop any claim that the two records are reliable.

    The Census record doesn’t say anything about a social-security number. All we have is a person with a different first name, a different middle name, and probably a different last name in the census record. Only a true conspiracy theorist could connect those dots without strong corroborating evidence, of which there is none.

    IF you say the Census record is correct, then you must admit that the database is wrong.

    I should also point out that in no database is the Obama SSN, the year 1890 and Bounel together. That association was made without any good reason. And Taitz’ claim that Bounel was in a Connecticut nursing home springs solely from her imagination.

    As for Orly’s Russian connection, there is no documentation of that. All I found was something from January 2013 where Orly said she talked to a Russian reporter. And even if a Russian record had been found for the person on the census record, we do not know how the name was spelled in the Cyrillic alphabet. And as I pointed out before, Boymel looks a lot like Bounel in Cyrillic cursive. Orly says “Bounel” is probably from the Ukraine. I didn’t run into any Bounels when I was there. The Boymel naturalization papers show he was from the Ukraine (then part of Russia), which is what Taitz asserted too.

    http://kartaonline.com/en/obls/34/regs/701/city/3604-old-lubar#50.64413151386128/28.462592500000028/8

    Hermitian: Except for maybe the census records and tons of stuff from her contacts in Russia ? And then there’s Al Hendershot’s data base search results.

    Just saying

  85. avatar
    American Mzungu February 15, 2014 at 8:57 am #

    Hermitian: and tons of stuff from her contacts in Russia ?

    How about sharing with us a sampling of just a few pounds from the tons of stuff you say she has?

  86. avatar
    HistorianDude February 15, 2014 at 9:03 am #

    ARNOLD CARL TAPPTHE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER USED BY obummerIS DEFINITELY FROM CONNECTICUT , WHERE o ‘ boobooHAS NEVER LIVED AND NEVER WORKED .

    SSNs have never, in all of human history, ever been assigned based specifically on where a person lived or worked. Here is what the SSA website says about it.

    Area Number

    The 3-digit area number is assigned by geographic region. In 1936 the Social Security Board planned eventually to use area numbers to redistribute work to its 12 regional centers to serve workers in those areas. One or more area numbers were allocated to each state based on the anticipated number of SSN issuances in the state. Prior to 1972, the numbers were issued to local offices for assignment to individuals; it was thought this would capture information about the worker’s residence. So, until 1972, the area number represented the state in which the card was issued. (Barron and Bamberger 1982, 29).

    Generally, area numbers were assigned in ascending order beginning in the northeast and then moving westward. For the most part, people on the east coast have the lowest area numbers and those on the west coast have the highest area numbers. However, area numbers did not always reflect the worker’s residence. During the initial registration in 1936 and 1937, businesses with branches throughout the country had employees return their SS-5 Application for Account Number to their national headquarters, so these SSNs carried the area number where the headquarters were located. As a result, the area numbers assigned to big cities, such as New York, Philadelphia, Boston, and Chicago, were used for workers in many other parts of the country (McKinley and Frase 1970, 373). Also, a worker could apply in person for a card in any Social Security office, and the area number would reflect that office’s location, regardless of the worker’s residence.

    Since 1972, when SSA began assigning SSNs and issuing cards centrally from Baltimore, MD, the area number has been assigned based on the ZIP code of the mailing address provided on the application for the original Social Security card. The applicant’s mailing address may not be the same as the place of residence.

    Emphasis added.

    http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v69n2/v69n2p55.html

  87. avatar
    Hermitian February 15, 2014 at 9:15 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Only a true conspiracy theorist could connect those dots without strong corroborating evidence, of which there is none.

    Except for the fact that his stated age was 50 for the 1940 census which is consistent with his 1890 birth year — which just happens to agree with the 1890 year that turns up on Al’s searches.

    Nice try but no win here…

  88. avatar
    Majority Will February 15, 2014 at 9:17 am #

    Hermitian: Just babbling incoherently …

    Fixed it for you. You’re welcome.

  89. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 15, 2014 at 9:27 am #

    Only, Al’s searches didn’t find an 1890 date. His report of 1890 links to a report from Susan Daniels.

    http://theobamahustle.wordpress.com/2013/01/23/breaking-news-obama-caught-using-stolen-social-security-number/

    Hermitian: Except for the fact that his stated age was 50 for the 1940 census which is consistent with his 1890 birth year — which just happens to agree with the 1890 year that turns up on Al’s searches.

  90. avatar
    HistorianDude February 15, 2014 at 9:30 am #

    Hermitian: Except for the fact that his stated age was 50 for the 1940 census which is consistent with his 1890 birth year — which just happens to agree with the 1890 year that turns up on Al’s searches.

    There was never an 1890 year that turned up on any of Al’s searches.

    You are confused.

  91. avatar
    Northland10 February 15, 2014 at 9:36 am #

    Do we we now call the 33rd President, Harrison J. Truman?

  92. avatar
    Majority Will February 15, 2014 at 9:43 am #

    Hermitian: Except for the fact . . .

    “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”
    — Inigo Montoya

  93. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 15, 2014 at 10:01 am #

    I left the following comment at the Hendershot blog:

    I read Taitz’ amended complaint and it wasn’t all that impressive. In order to avoid having it dismissed (like the previous one) she had to argue that the SSA search was inadequate, and basically she didn’t give any good reason for that. She basically said that it was inadequate because they didn’t give her what she wanted.

    In any case, she won’t get the record because it doesn’t exist in the form she requested. We’ve already obtained the Bounel SS-5 (except that the Census records is misspelled–it should have been “Boymel”) and the social-security number isn’t Obama’s.

    It’s a dead end, and you’re yet to find any corroboration that Harrison J. Bounel ever existed.

    It’s currently in moderation:

    http://theobamahustle.wordpress.com/2013/12/16/breaking-news-judge-hollander-in-maryland-gives-attorney-orly-taitz-21-days-to-file-a-second-amended-complaint-and-add-allegations-in-regards-to-an-improper-withholding-by-the-social-security-admini/#comment-1318

  94. avatar
    nbc February 15, 2014 at 12:46 pm #

    HistorianDude: There was never an 1890 year that turned up on any of Al’s searches.

    You are confused.

    that’s hermitian for you…

  95. avatar
    nbc February 15, 2014 at 12:49 pm #

    Rickey: You can’t make this stuff up.Only an Obot could craft such a fairy tale.

    You should read some of Hermitian’s ‘arguments’ and claims…

  96. avatar
    Rickey February 15, 2014 at 1:19 pm #

    Hermitian: Except for the fact that his stated age was 50 for the 1940 census which is consistent with his 1890 birth year — which just happens to agree with the 1890 year that turns up on Al’s searches.

    As I have already told you, Harry never “stated” his age for the 1940 census. Harry never spoke to the enumerator. The enumerator got her information from Harry’s landlady. It says so right on the census form. That landlady obviously didn’t know Harry’s exact age and guessed that he was 50 years old. That’s what people do when they don’t know an exact age. She may have said that he was “about 50″ or “approximately 50″ so the enumerator wrote down “50.”

    Besides, being age 50 at the time of the 1940 census is not “consistent” with being born in 1890. Since the census was done during the first three months of the year, age 50 is more consistent with being born in 1889 than 1890. If Harry had been 50 at the time of the census, there was a 75% chance that he was born in 1889 rather than 1890.

    Orly believes (without any evidence whatsever) that Harry Bounel aka Harrison J. Bounel was issued Barack Obama’s Social Security Number on or about March 28, 1977. If that were true, there would be a record of Bounel somewhere – but there is no record of him. None of the major locator services have any record of anyone with that name. There are, however, records of Harry Boymel.

    Harry Bounel – six letters in the last name, begins with “Bo” and ends with “el.”
    Harry Boymel – six letters in the last name, begins with “Bo” and ends with “el.”
    Harry Bounel – immigrant from Russia
    Harry Boymel – immigrant from Russia
    Harry Bounel – worked in a fruit store
    Harry Boymel – worked in a fruit store
    Harry Bounel – approximate age 50 when the 1940 census was conducted
    Harry Boymel – 53 years old when the 1940 census was conducted
    Harry Bounel – lived at 915 Elsmere Place, Bronx, N.Y.
    Harry Boymel – lived at 915 Elsmere Place, Bronx, N.Y.

    Louis Julius, Harry’s landlord, lived at 915 Elsmere Place, Bronx, N.Y.

    The clincher is that the 1940 census lists only one person named Harry Bo—el. If Harry Boymel and Harry Bounel were different people, why does the census list only one of them?

  97. avatar
    Scribunda February 15, 2014 at 1:21 pm #

    Rickey: I sent it to Doc today, and he is planning on posting it. You should see it here in a few days.

    Great! I believe you, but I think it is important for the birthers to see that the document exists. :)

  98. avatar
    Majority Will February 15, 2014 at 1:37 pm #

    Rickey: The clincher is that the 1940 census lists only one person named Harry Bo—el. If Harry Boymel and Harry Bounel were different people, why does the census list only one of them?

    Expect birther bigot’s Tourette Syndrome: “But, but, but, but . . . . Usurper! Kenya! Marxist! Benghazi!

  99. avatar
    Rickey February 15, 2014 at 1:39 pm #

    Hermitian: Except for maybe the census records and tons of stuff from her contacts in Russia ?And then there’s Al Hendershot’s data base search results.

    Explain why “Harry Bounel” does not appear in the 1920 census, but Harry Boymel does.

    Why is there not a single telephone listing in the United States for a person with the surname Bounel?

    And where is Orly’s “tons of stuff” from her contacts in Russia? When is she going to release it – any day now?

    As for Hendershot, any investigator worth his or her salt knows that database searches are just the starting point in an investigation. All such reports come with the following disclaimer:

    The Public Records and commercially available data sources used on reports have errors. Data is sometimes entered poorly, processed incorrectly and
    is generally not free from defect. This system should not be relied upon as definitively accurate. Before relying on any data this system supplies, it should be
    independently verified.

    Hendershot did nothing to independently verify his information. Nor did Orly Taitz. LexisNexis has no record of anyone named “Harry Bounel” or “Harrison Bounel,” living or dead.

  100. avatar
    Thinker February 15, 2014 at 1:57 pm #

    This is not correct. The 1940 census record does not have a middle initial for Harry Bounel.

    http://1940census.archives.gov/search/?search.census_year=1940&search.city=&search.county=Bronx%20County&search.page=2&search.result_type=image&search.state=NY&search.street=Daly%20Av#filename=m-t0627-02490-00767.tif&name=3-1199&type=image&state=NY&index=26&pages=42&bm_all_text=Unbookmark&searchby=location&searchmode=browse&year=1940&bm_pages%5B%5D=25

    A person named Harry S. Bonnel was in the mix at one point, but he was born in 1860. He’s the mulatto man that Taitz, with her diseased mind, believed had a connection to Michelle Obama’s ancestors.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Well, let’s start with the elephant in the room. The Census record says “Harry S Bounel” and the public database record says “Harrison J. Bounel.”

  101. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 15, 2014 at 2:12 pm #

    I have corrected the article. Thanks.

    Thinker: This is not correct. The 1940 census record does not have a middle initial for Harry Bounel.

  102. avatar
    Thinker February 15, 2014 at 2:12 pm #

    Another problem with Al’s search is that the search on the 4425 SSN yielded two names: Harrison J. Bounel and someone named Barback Obama. This flawless, error-free database does not actually connect the 4425 SSN directly to President Obama, whose first name is not Barback.

    Of course, this is nonsense. The whole entry is just random database garbage based on an errant keystroke or some random nut who submitted an application for a credit card using President Obama’s SSN. Any real researcher would have realized that very quickly. A birther wouldn’t.

    Hermitian: Except for the fact that his stated age was 50 for the 1940 census which is consistent with his 1890 birth year — which just happens to agree with the 1890 year that turns up on Al’s searches.

    Nice try but no win here…

  103. avatar
    William Rawle February 15, 2014 at 2:43 pm #

    Hermitian: the 1890 year that turns up on Al’s searches.

    Dr. Conspiracy: His report of 1890 links to a report from Susan Daniels.

    Daniels’ affidavit and database search also showed a 1990 DOB which was first reported to the database in 1988.

    When I asked her about it, she responded:

    “That was an obvious error. We both can admit that he was not born in 1990.”

    So if the 1990 DOB is an error, what proof is there that the 1890 isn’t also an error?

  104. avatar
    nbc February 15, 2014 at 3:45 pm #

    There is also an entry with month/day reversed. Again, Orly is on a fool’s errand. The perfect job for her if you ask me.

  105. avatar
    Scribunda February 15, 2014 at 4:26 pm #

    Rickey:

    Harry Bounel – six letters in the last name, begins with “Bo” and ends with “el.”
    Harry Boymel – six letters in the last name, begins with “Bo” and ends with “el.”

    A book on Jewish family names and their origins includes Baumel and many derivatives, and it includes “Boym” as an alternate of “Baum.” It does not include “Bounel,” which should tell Orly something.

    I would put the link, but it keeps messing the page up. If you google “Jewish Family Names and Their Origins,” you can read some of the pages on Google Books.

  106. avatar
    Daniel February 15, 2014 at 4:46 pm #

    Hermitian: Except for the fact that his stated age was 50 for the 1940 census which is consistent with his 1890 birth year — which just happens to agree with the 1890 year that turns up on Al’s searches.

    Nice try but no win here…

    Wow, two dates fifty years apart being fifty years apart! Furthermore a person born on one year is exactly 50 years old, 50 years later? Coincidence? I don’t think so…. That kind of coincidence couldn’t possibly happen to more than…. 7 billion people.

    /facepalm

  107. avatar
    Keith February 15, 2014 at 11:30 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The Boymel naturalization papers show he was from the Ukraine (then part of Russia), which is what Taitz asserted too.

    Ukraine was never part of Russia.

    It was part of the Soviet Union, and the Russian Empire before that of course.

  108. avatar
    J.D. Sue February 16, 2014 at 12:52 am #

    Nice job, Rickey et al. Personally, I’m surprised to see that Harry was born around the same time and place (Zhytomyr), and came to the US around the same time, as my paternal grandfather–who also took the name Harry (changed from Chaim).

  109. avatar
    Thinker February 16, 2014 at 1:00 am #

    That naturalization certificate is interesting. Harry had to swear on oath that he is not an anarchist, not a polygamist, nor a believer in the practice of polygamy.

  110. avatar
    Scribunda February 16, 2014 at 2:09 am #

    Keith: Ukraine was never part of Russia.

    It was part of the Soviet Union, and the Russian Empire before that of course.

    He obviously meant that Boymel was from a town now in the Ukraine that at the time was under Russian occupation. Thus, people who came to the United States from that area (Berdichev/Berdychiv) were described as “Russian” by U.S. Immigration.

    Boymel was born in Lubar (Lyubar) in the Volhynia province. This region, which had been a Polish province, was taken over by the Russians. Later, part of Volhynia was returned to the restored Poland and part was part of the Ukraine. Then it was annexed by the Soviet Union before WWII, but afterward was given to the Ukraine and Poles were expelled to Poland.

  111. avatar
    Hermitian February 16, 2014 at 10:26 am #

    Jim: No, we are saying that we found a person, Harry Boymel, who fits all the criteria set forth by the birthers

    Except Boymel has the wrong name, birth year and address. Is there any evidence that Boymel moved to Chicago ?

  112. avatar
    Jim February 16, 2014 at 10:37 am #

    Hermitian: Nice try but no win here…

    Ummmm, Hermie, I hate to tell you this, but our win is sitting in the WH as our duly elected President, we’re just showing that YOUR evidence bites. Besides, you don’t even know what a win is, considering birthers are 0-fer over 200. The only thing you’re an expert in is losing.

    I’m surprised Orly hasn’t gone hog-wild with the fact that Mr. Boymel last benefit was paid in Washington DC in 2008…maybe being hidden from the birthers. :lol:

  113. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG February 16, 2014 at 10:57 am #

    Jim: Ummmm, Hermie, I hate to tell you this, but our win is sitting in the WH as our duly elected President, we’re just showing that YOUR evidence bites.Besides, you don’t even know what a win is, considering birthers are 0-fer over 200.The only thing you’re an expert in is losing.

    This, ladies and gentlemen, is what is known as a “burn”.

  114. avatar
    Rickey February 16, 2014 at 1:19 pm #

    Jim:

    I’m surprised Orly hasn’t gone hog-wild with the fact that Mr. Boymel last benefit was paid in Washington DC in 2008…maybe being hidden from the birthers.

    Actually that is Zip Code 20008, not year 2008.

  115. avatar
    Dave B. February 16, 2014 at 1:40 pm #

    Just imagine how Virginia Minor would feel.

    Thinker: It is very surreal that Mr. Boymel would have his 15 minutes of fame years after his death.

  116. avatar
    Dave B. February 16, 2014 at 1:50 pm #

    Looking through some of the stuff that’s been posted lately, I reckon being Dr. Conspiracy ain’t nowhere near as easy as you make it look. My hat’s off!

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    He always does that. My inbox is full of his forwarded nonsense, in all caps.

  117. avatar
    Majority Will February 16, 2014 at 2:15 pm #

    Dave B.:
    Just imagine how Virginia Minor would feel.

    Or Virginia Sunahara.

  118. avatar
    SvenMagnussen February 16, 2014 at 4:11 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I left the following comment at the Hendershot blog:

    It’s currently in moderation:

    http://theobamahustle.wordpress.com/2013/12/16/breaking-news-judge-hollander-in-maryland-gives-attorney-orly-taitz-21-days-to-file-a-second-amended-complaint-and-add-allegations-in-regards-to-an-improper-withholding-by-the-social-security-admini/#comment-1318

    Should Taitz be allowed to depose the SSA official who conducted the search before her case is dismissed? Although it’s unlikely, what if the SSA official who conducted the search is lying? Orly, or someone who posts on the internet posing as Orly, has indicated she can impeach the SSA official’s sworn statement. Shouldn’t a jury decide who is telling the truth?

  119. avatar
    helen February 16, 2014 at 4:13 pm #

    it is a test of intelligence to decipher the truth from the beliefs posted on this subject.

    All side are making assumption, stating them as facts, and then rendering opinions based upon supposed fact.

    One fact interests me.

    Who was the Harrison Bounel referred to in Obama’s thing in Chicago?

    It is the fact that caused the uproar , and it appears there is not, and has never been , a Harrison Bounel in the USA.

    So how did his name get connected with Obama’s SSN.

    All else is game playing.

  120. avatar
    helen February 16, 2014 at 4:21 pm #

    Now this is game playing. I have it on good authority that the census taker actually wrote 915 in place of the actual 1915 as tne 1915 as pronouced would sound like 915 to an in-attentive listener.
    Which then destroys the other address being claimed to be the actual address.

    So Bounel, is alive and well, and his SSN info can not be released until he has been comfirmed dead by the SSA!

    All else is trash!

  121. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 16, 2014 at 4:30 pm #

    First it is essential to remember the fact that the date on the Bounel database entry is one month AFTER Orly Taitz published Obama’s SSN on the Internet (and of course his home address has been available since the beginning).

    The concurrence of a fake name, a publicly available SSN and a publicly available address in a financial transaction database screams fraud to me–somebody attempted a fraudulent transaction, perhaps a credit card application with Obama’s address given as a previous address. This sort of thing happens every day.

    And it is certainly plausible after such identity theft attempt that either a credit hold or a changed SSN was put in place which explains why there are no more entries, and why the President’s SSN no longer validates with SSA (or at least persons illegally looking it up say that it doesn’t).

    I should remind folks that the Selective Service System registration check system did validate Obama’s SSN when reporter Spencer Kornhaber legally checked it way back when.

    The idea that Obama could get away with using an SSN that didn’t match his name filing income tax returns is crazy.

    helen: Who was the Harrison Bounel referred to in Obama’s thing in Chicago?

    It is the fact that caused the uproar , and it appears there is not, and has never been , a Harrison Bounel in the USA

  122. avatar
    JPotter February 16, 2014 at 4:39 pm #

    helen: I have it on good authority

    Would you care to name said ‘authority’, “helen”? I can cite a good authority that postulates that the natural world is comprised of four elements. Now, isn’t that a load off?

  123. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 16, 2014 at 4:46 pm #

    Where did Chicago enter the equation? If you’re referring to the database record, that was dated recently, long after any hypothetical Bounel born in 1890 was dead.

    Hermitian: Except Boymel has the wrong name, birth year and address. Is there any evidence that Boymel moved to Chicago ?

  124. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 16, 2014 at 4:51 pm #

    Anonymous good authority is not good.

    helen: I have it on good authority

  125. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 16, 2014 at 5:01 pm #

    Still alive at age 124? I don’t think so.

    helen: So Bounel, is alive and well, and his SSN info can not be released until he has been comfirmed dead by the SSA!

  126. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 16, 2014 at 5:07 pm #

    I don’t that Taitz’ allegations have sufficient specificity to warrant that. A lawsuit is not a fishing license.

    SvenMagnussen: Should Taitz be allowed to depose the SSA official who conducted the search before her case is dismissed?

  127. avatar
    helen February 16, 2014 at 5:38 pm #

    My goodness, I did say I was playing a game, to emulate the other posting on the site.

    I well remember when H, J. Bounel came into play, and I well remember the people saying that he was the attorney, or the accountant, handling the Obama trust.

    Oh, how easily we forget the things that bring the question to the fore!

    Dr. C.It is just as logical to say that 1915 was miscomscribed as it is to say the street never existed at that location.\
    A challenge to a data point , if valid, eliminates the assumption of accuracy as to the validity of the document.

    Just as though the error in a BC eliminate the validity of a bc.so the valid challenge of a government document makes it not subject to the full faith and credit clause.

    But, I do understand the necessity of presenting a view in the best possilble way to support a position and how a firmly held belief is difficulty to dislodge from the cranium of both sides of the positiion.

    Enjoy the life you live!

  128. avatar
    helen February 16, 2014 at 5:40 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Still alive at age 124? I don’t think so.

    I don’t either, but if a death certificate is required to verify death, then it is not impossible to make that assumption.

  129. avatar
    helen February 16, 2014 at 5:46 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Anonymous good authority is not good.

    I agree whole heartedly with that position, the trouble llies in the definition of good authority, does it not?

    Is a good authority an organization that admits to falsity in document production?

    If the Census Bureau certifies the results of the census, and the census contains errors, is it a good authority?

    Ad infinitum

    Or is a good authority someone I believe, or one which someone believes.

    it all affects the problems of definition of truth

  130. avatar
    helen February 16, 2014 at 5:49 pm #

    JPotter: Would you care to name said ‘authority’, “helen”? I can cite a good authority that postulates that the natural world is comprised of four elements. Now, isn’t that a load off?

    And I have it on good authority that you can be believed with the whole heart and mind of your believers.

    or did you just post a falsity?

  131. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 16, 2014 at 6:20 pm #

    SSA presumes death in FOIA cases at age 120 years.

    helen: I don’t either, but if a death certificate is required to verify death, then it is not impossible to make that assumption.

  132. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 16, 2014 at 6:28 pm #

    Good authority depends on context, and good authority is not the same thing as perfect authority. Certainly anyone who has worked with old census records knows that there are errors; nevertheless, it’s a good source of information. By the same token, anyone who works with public records and credit reporting databases knows that there are mistakes in there also.

    helen: I agree whole heartedly with that position, the trouble llies in the definition of good authority, does it not?

  133. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny February 16, 2014 at 6:32 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: As for Orly’s Russian connection, there is no documentation of that. All I found was something from January 2013 where Orly said she talked to a Russian reporter. And even if a Russian record had been found for the person on the census record, we do not know how the name was spelled in the Cyrillic alphabet. And as I pointed out before, Boymel looks a lot like Bounel in Cyrillic cursive. Orly says “Bounel” is probably from the Ukraine. I didn’t run into any Bounels when I was there. The Boymel naturalization papers show he was from the Ukraine (then part of Russia), which is what Taitz asserted too.

    Two points here:
    1) you are right that in hand writing or cursive, you could confuse the two. I can imagine a postcard or the envelope of a letter laying about during the absence of Mr Boymel, could have confused a census taker not accustomed to the alphabet. Additionally, the name “Bounel”, while relatively frequent in Russia, is not particularly Jewish. The name was more frequent with Russians of German descent. The name is derived from a German kernel that means “free farmer”. Orly knew this. It does not take much googling to soon find that Bounel is not a Jewish Russian name.

    2) In a comment I made after Fre’s discovery at the Fogbow, I claimed that Lubar (Polish spelling) or Lyubar, now in the Ukraine had been Russian (implying it remained so) since the first partition. I was wrong. The reason for my mistake was that, perhaps as an attempt to claim Zhytomyr itself (which remained in Soviet Ukraine), Poland took Liubar and surroundings out of Wolyn region and made it the Zhitomir wojewodstwo.

    Although part of Poland, Lubar remained very un-Polish, with a Jewish majority, and a strong Ukrainian minority, all Eastern Orthodox. Here, the Greek Catholic inhabitants had been largely re-converted to Russian Orthodoxy during the 19th century, as Counter-Reformation Catholicism had only been skin deep.

    http://genforum.genealogy.com/ukraine/messages/9578.html (to explain my confusion over the inter-war situation)

    http://math.berkeley.edu/~wodzicki/Lubar.html (transformation of Lubar-Lyubar in the 19th century)

  134. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater February 16, 2014 at 6:42 pm #

    JPotter: Would you care to name said ‘authority’, “helen”? I can cite a good authority that postulates that the natural world is comprised of four elements. Now, isn’t that a load off?

    Looks like TraderJack is back as “helen”

  135. avatar
    Northland10 February 16, 2014 at 6:44 pm #

    helen: So Bounel, is alive and well, and his SSN info can not be released until he has been comfirmed dead by the SSA!

    Helen, here are some simple issues:

    1. The number mentioned by Orly shows up many, many times with Obama’s name for over 20 years, at least, according to the reports by Daniels and Sankey,

    2. The one single listing for Harrison J. Bounel was in November 2009, and only on the list from Hendershott (might I add, it is Bounel, HarrisonJ with no space before the J).

    3. The Bounel listing had no birth date.

    4. The only 1890 listing was from a single hit from Obama when he was in Cambridge, MA (the next year, the birthday was 1990). This was from the Daniels list.

    So Helen, how do two completely unrelated data points in different database pulls somehow turn into Bounel using the SSN in 2009, for the first time it appears, when he was very old, and living in Obama’s house?

    Even without Fre and Rickey’s research, Orly’s theory leaks worse than a rusty sieve

  136. avatar
    helen February 16, 2014 at 6:52 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Good authority depends on context, and good authority is not the same thing as perfect authority. Certainly anyone who has worked with old census records knows that there are errors; nevertheless, it’s a good source of information. By the same token, anyone who works with public records and credit reporting databases knows that there are mistakes in there also.

    And the problem in that statement is that the posters believe that a good source of information is , by defintion, a source of true information!

    But no-one want to post information that may be true, but they want to post information that can be interpretated as being true.

    And those are two different things.

    And the good old saying “you know what happens when you assume something” it
    joins u and me with an ass!

    It is most likely that a statement using “most likely” is, without a doubt, a guess as to its veracity!

  137. avatar
    helen February 16, 2014 at 7:02 pm #

    It doesn’t! You can not make a truthful statement when you use suspicious ideas, and statements

    Kind of like the statement that could there be two Harriys in the building? Of course theyre could be, but that would hurt the argument to admit that.

    And trying to prove a negative is difficult, is it not?

    “there was never a 915 Tyler st.?”
    But there could have been a 1915 Tyler St.

    One is a negative statement, the other is a positive statement.

    but , always ignore what does not help your position in the matters.

    The refusal to believe a possiblity hampers all truth seeking.

    Does it not?

  138. avatar
    helen February 16, 2014 at 7:10 pm #

    True or not , I do not know, as it is just verbiage on a computer.

    https://theobamahustle.wordpress.com/tag/harvard-law-school/

    “This was a SSN verification that was completed in 2008 using Obama’s name associated with the stolen 042-68-4425 with his name listed as the owner. The result came back as a failure because naturally his name was never legally associated with that number.”

    Can you believe the SSA when they make statement about the validity of a SSN?

  139. avatar
    helen February 16, 2014 at 7:12 pm #

    May the good lord help and protect you in the future, and remember that the good lord is in your body and soul.
    Now to dinner for birhday!

  140. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 16, 2014 at 8:42 pm #

    I have a real problem with that statement, that the SSNVS was from 2008. Orly Taitz let out Obama’s social-security number before October 16, 2009 when I reported on it. It is interesting that even though Orly Taitz submitted this document as an exhibit in one of her lawsuits, she does not date it. None of the images I found included the date that is often part of a web page printout. And if Hollister did that lookup in 2008, where did he get Obama’s SSN?

    In one Orly Taitz legal brief [ http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Table-of-evidence-and-exhibits-corrected.pdf ] on Page 23 Taitz includes an email from Hollister where he provides her with the SSNVS record. It is dated February 9, 2011. Now what is significant is that in the Taitz image (pages following), the place in the lower right of the printout where the date usually appears is very intentionally cut out. I think this was done to create the fiction that the SSNVS was done before she published Obama’s SSN, but I can’t prove why the redaction was done.

    On February 9, 2009, Hollister filed the First Amended Complaint in his Hollister v. Soetoro lawsuit, and the SSNVS was not one of the exhibits. From that, I conclude that it didn’t exist on that date, or else it would have been included.

    http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/district-of-columbia/dcdce/1:2008cv02254/134576/11

    The Fogbow discussion of this document put it at “late 2010″ but they didn’t elaborate on that. I just note that this is consistent with the preceding. http://www.thefogbow.com/special-reports/social-security-number/#3

    There was a February 2011 Examiner.com article article on Hollister that references it (again with consistent with a late 2010 date).

    http://www.examiner.com/article/hollister-v-soetoro-obama-eligibility-case-to-be-reconsidered-by-supreme-court

    I couldn’t find any evidence that this SSNVS existed in 2008 or 2009.

    helen:
    True or not , I do not know, as it is just verbiage on a computer.

    https://theobamahustle.wordpress.com/tag/harvard-law-school/

    “This was a SSN verification that was completed in 2008 using Obama’s name associated with the stolen 042-68-4425 with his name listed as the owner.The result came back as a failure because naturally his name was never legally associated with that number.”

    Can you believe the SSA when they make statement about the validity of a SSN?

  141. avatar
    William Rawle February 16, 2014 at 9:13 pm #

    helen: True or not

    Dr. Conspiracy: The Fogbow discussion of this document put it at “late 2010″ but they didn’t elaborate on that. I just note that this is consistent with the preceding.

    Obama Release Your Records first reported on it in Feb 27, 2011

    http://www.birtherreport.com/2011/02/colonel-gregory-hollister-obamas-social.html

    Also attributed it as coming from Hollister and it would have been about the same time he got a new Selective Service Card for President Obama by impersonating him.

    http://www.birtherreport.com/2011/03/col-hollister-facing-legal-trouble-for.html

  142. avatar
    Rickey February 16, 2014 at 9:28 pm #

    helen:
    Now this is game playing.I have it on good authority that the census taker actually wrote 915 in place of the actual 1915 as tne 1915 as pronouced would sound like 915 to an in-attentive listener.
    Which then destroys the other address being claimed to be the actual address.

    Wrong again.

    1915 Daly Avenue is part of St. Thomas Aquinas Elementary School, and has been for more than 100 years. Harry could not possibly have been living there, unless you believe that he converted to Catholicism and became a nun.

    We also know that Harry lived with his landlord, Louis Julius, and we know from other documents that Louis Julius lived at 915 Elsmere Drive.

  143. avatar
    Rickey February 16, 2014 at 9:38 pm #

    helen:

    Kind of like the statement that could there be two Harriys in the building?Of course theyre could be, but that would hurt the argument to admit that.

    There could have been two Harrys in the building, but the census lists only one.

    But it’s more than just two Harrys. It’s two Harrys, each with a surname containing six letters beginning with “Bo” and ending with “el.” Two Harrys, both immigrants from Russia. Two Harrys, both working in the fruit business. Two Harrys, both approximately 50 years old.

    And trying to prove a negative is difficult, is it not?

    Not particularly. It’s easy to prove that 915 Daly Avenue never existed. If you don’t believe me, call the New York City Department of Buildings or the New York City Department of Finance.

    “there was never a 915 Tyler st.?”
    But there could have been a 1915 Tyler St.

    As I posted in another note, 1915 Daly Avenue is part of the grounds of St. Thomas Aquinas Elementary School, and has been for more than 100 years.

    Also, the page of the 1940 census on which Harry’s name is a continuation of the previous page, and the previous page clearly states that the building in question was 915 Elsmere Place.

  144. avatar
    Northland10 February 16, 2014 at 9:59 pm #

    Rickey: Wrong again

    I think Helen’s “good authority” is whatever Orly says. “Orly said it. I believe it. That settles it.”

    All you have shown are actual documents and others verifiable references.

  145. avatar
    Rickey February 16, 2014 at 10:00 pm #

    SvenMagnussen: Should Taitz be allowed to depose the SSA official who conducted the search before her case is dismissed? Although it’s unlikely, what if the SSA official who conducted the search is lying? Orly, or someone who posts on the internet posing as Orly, has indicated she can impeach the SSA official’s sworn statement. Shouldn’t a jury decide who is telling the truth?

    On what basis? Orly has no admissible evidence that Harrison Bounel ever existed, and if he did exist she has no admissible evidence that he had a Social Security Number, and if he did exist and he did have a Social Security Number she has no admissible evidence that his SSN matches Obama’s SSN.

    The Social Security Death Index lists exactly one person with the surname “Bounel”:

    Golf Bounel
    Born 12 August 1924
    Died 6 February 1988
    Last Residence: Annapolis, Anne Arundel, MD 21401
    Last Benefit: Annapolis, Anne Arundel, MD 21401
    SSN: 216-18-5664

    There isn’t a single telephone listing anywhere in the United States for a person with the surname “Bounel.”

    Other than that, she has an air-tight case.

  146. avatar
    Rickey February 16, 2014 at 10:13 pm #

    Interestingly, this post about “Harry Bounel” from January, 2013 correctly lists his address in the 1940 census as 915 Elsmere Place.

    http://beforeitsnews.com/obama-birthplace-controversy/2013/01/obamas-alias-of-harry-bounel-found-in-1940-census-2453868.html

  147. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater February 16, 2014 at 11:44 pm #

    Northland10: I think Helen’s “good authority” is whatever Orly says.“Orly said it.I believe it.That settles it.”

    All you have shown are actual documents and others verifiable references.

    It’s just trolljack throwing out his word salads and trolling away at logic which he seems completely devoid of.

  148. avatar
    Scribunda February 17, 2014 at 1:42 am #

    helen:
    It doesn’t!Youcan not make a truthful statement when you use suspicious ideas, and statements

    Kind of like the statement that could there be two Harriys in the building?Of course theyre could be, but that would hurt the argument to admit that.

    And trying to prove a negative is difficult, is it not?

    “there was never a 915 Tyler st.?”
    But there could have been a 1915 Tyler St.

    One is a negative statement, the other is a positive statement.

    but , always ignore what does not help your position in the matters.

    The refusal to believe a possiblity hampers all truth seeking.

    Does it not?

    Truth seekers go where the evidence leads. They do not ignore facts simply because they contradict a presupposition.

    There is no evidence anyone named Harry Bounel emigrated to the US and lived at 915 Elsmere. There is solid evidence that a man identified as Gersch Baumel emigrated here and changed his name to Harry Boymel (Harry being a common Americanization of Gersch and Baumel having been written by someone on the Main, which could explain the Germanic spelling.

    Note that in the Ukraine, the letter Y is said to make an “oo” sound, like you might hear in “Bounel.”

    There is evidence that Harry Boymel was living at 915 Elsmere in 1941, without his wife, and multiple documents establish 915 Elsmere as the address of Louis Julius at that time.

    Certainly census takers can be wrong, which is why Harry Boymel is listed incorrectly as Harry Bounel on the 1940 census. If Harry Bounel were real, he would have registered for the draft like Louis Julius and Harry Boymel and almost every US man younger than 60 or so at the time. Yet there is no record of him. There is no death record for him in SSA. SSA says they have no record of receiving an application from someone with that name. Not a single ship’s manifest out of Bremen or Hamburg has a Harry or Gersch Bounel. No Harry Bounel is found in the LDS genealogy database. No Harry Bounel or any Bounel comes up in a search of records from Ellis Island.

    Then there is the pesky fact that it is not a Jewish name.

    The simplest explanation is usually right, which is that Harry Boymel was misidentified as Harry Bounel. And you and Orly can continue to pretend that your one piece of paper weighs more than all these other pieces of paper, but the truth seekers see right through it and no matter how often Orly screeches her imaginary facts, the real facts will trump them every time in a court of law. Nobody is going to believe something that is so easy to disprove and so impossible to prove just because Orly wants them to. The sooner she wakes up to reality, the more money she will save on ridiculous filing fees to make a dead argument.

  149. avatar
    interestedbystander February 17, 2014 at 7:17 am #

    helen: And I have it on good authority that you can be believed with the whole heart and mind of your believers.

    or did you just post a falsity?

    I know you’re trying to sound clever and play word games here – but posters here are pretty smart and you’re just coming off as weird.

  150. avatar
    interestedbystander February 17, 2014 at 7:24 am #

    Now Helen has been schooled and every one of her “points” debunked, she seems to have disappeared. Much as Butterdezillion did when all her Fuddy / Breitbart theories were handily debunked. Birthers are so dishonest – they can never admit their errors.

  151. avatar
    SvenMagnussen February 17, 2014 at 7:38 am #

    Rickey: On what basis? Orly has no admissible evidence that Harrison Bounel ever existed, and if he did exist she has no admissible evidence that he had a Social Security Number, and if he did exist and he did have a Social Security Number she has no admissible evidence that his SSN matches Obama’s SSN.

    The Social Security Death Index lists exactly one person with the surname “Bounel”:

    Golf Bounel
    Born 12 August 1924
    Died 6 February 1988
    Last Residence: Annapolis, Anne Arundel, MD 21401
    Last Benefit: Annapolis, Anne Arundel, MD 21401
    SSN: 216-18-5664

    There isn’t a single telephone listing anywhere in the United States for a person with the surname “Bounel.”

    Other than that, she has an air-tight case.

    Taitz was required to show Bounel existed, had a SSN, and was no longer protected by the Privacy Act to the SSA BEFORE a search would begin. SSA has sworn a search was conducted. Consequently, proof Bounel existed,had an SSN, and was no longer protected by the Privacy Act has been accepted by SSA as result of a discretionary determination by an executive level federal officer of the SSA. Otherwise, they would have never conducted a search.

    Now that a search has been admitted by the SSA, a dispute has arisen as to the adequacy of the search and not whether SSA should have conducted the search or admitted a search was conducted.

    The US Asst AG has had an opportunity to interview the employee who conducted the search. I think Orly should have an opportunity to interview (depose) the SSA employee before the case is dismissed.

  152. avatar
    Northland10 February 17, 2014 at 9:13 am #

    Sven, tsk, tsk, tsk.

    Orly has some HarrisonJ Bounel, no age, who has a 2009 entry from Chicago, and some guy she thinks is Harry Bounel in the Bronx in the 1940’s who has no record of the same SSN as Harrison. In addition her proof is from services that contain disclaimers such as,

    DISCLAIMER: The Public Records and commercially available data sources used in the Lexis/Nexis system may have errors. Data is sometimes entered poorly, processed incorrectly and is generally not free from defect. This system should not be relied upon as definitively accurate. Before relying on any data this system supplies, it should be independently verified.

    The reports are usually used by investigators to find patterns, not specific points. Orly, instead has taken 2 entirely separate points and made them proof, while ignoring the obvious pattern.

    The only proof she has proffered is her total lack of a clue.

  153. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) February 17, 2014 at 9:39 am #

    SvenMagnussen: I think Orly should have an opportunity to interview (depose) the SSA employee before the case is dismissed.

    What good would it do? If the employee is part of the conspiracy, he will simply repeat the fact he conducted the search and found nothing. Given Orly’s courtroom “skills”, she isn’t exactly like Matlock who can talk any witness into admitting anything, including being Matlock.
    Do you really expect Orly to be able to question the witness in a way that it will break down crying and confess “that I was instructed by Obama himself to hide the real Slim Shady Harrison Harry J-Lo Bounel-Soebarkahtorobama records from Your Royal Birther Highness”?

    Hint: screeching “YOU ARE LYING!” does not cut it. ;)

  154. avatar
    Hermitian February 17, 2014 at 10:03 am #

    Rickey: The clincher is that the 1940 census lists only one person named Harry Bo—el

    You are correct. The 1940 census lists only Harry Bounel. Harry Boymel was not listed.

    That clinches it for me — along with the Chicago tie-in to Obama and Harry’s 1890 birth year.

  155. avatar
    Hermitian February 17, 2014 at 10:19 am #

    Rickey: Explain why “Harry Bounel” does not appear in the 1920 census, but Harry Boymel does.

    Harry Bounel came to America after 1920 ?

  156. avatar
    Hermitian February 17, 2014 at 10:27 am #

    Jim: Hermitian: Nice try but no win here…

    Ummmm, Hermie, I hate to tell you this, but our win is sitting in the WH as our duly elected President, we’re just showing that YOUR evidence bites. Besides, you don’t even know what a win is, considering birthers are 0-fer over 200. The only thing you’re an expert in is losing.

    It only takes one pitch to hit a home run…The Babe proved that on October 1, 1932.

    See: “Babe Ruth’s called shot”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babe_Ruth's_called_shot

  157. avatar
    SvenMagnussen February 17, 2014 at 11:49 am #

    The Magic M (not logged in): What good would it do? If the employee is part of the conspiracy, he will simply repeat the fact he conducted the search and found nothing. Given Orly’s courtroom “skills”, she isn’t exactly like Matlock who can talk any witness into admitting anything, including being Matlock.
    Do you really expect Orly to be able to question the witness in a way that it will break down crying and confess “that I was instructed by Obama himself to hide the real Slim Shady Harrison Harry J-Lo Bounel-Soebarkahtorobama records from Your Royal Birther Highness”?

    Hint: screeching “YOU ARE LYING!” does not cut it.

    I’m not a lawyer, but I think justice would be served if Orly had an opportunity to interview the searcher to help determine if an adequate search was conducted.

    The US Asst AG was allowed to interview the SSA employee. After guidance from the US Asst AG and a few implied threats by executive level federal officers at SSA, I doubt the SSA employee will say anything incriminating.

    If the litigants can’t come to terms, there is a provision for Taitz to request a court order for an onsite search.

  158. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG February 17, 2014 at 11:56 am #

    Taitz can request whatever she wants. Doesn’t mean she’s entitled to it.
    Any time she actually is granted something, she either:
    A.) colossally @&$#s up.(See “The Empty Chair” fiasco)
    B.) Screams that she as cheated, when what she is granted doesn’t play out in her favor.

  159. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 17, 2014 at 12:21 pm #

    You aren’t?

    SvenMagnussen: I’m not a lawyer

  160. avatar
    Rickey February 17, 2014 at 12:53 pm #

    SvenMagnussen: Taitz was required to show Bounel existed, had a SSN, and was no longer protected by the Privacy Act to the SSA BEFORE a search would begin. SSA has sworn a search was conducted. Consequently, proof Bounel existed,had an SSN, and was no longer protected by the Privacy Act has been accepted by SSA as result of a discretionary determination by an executive level federal officer of the SSA. Otherwise, they would have never conducted a search.

    You’re making stuff up again.

    To trigger a search, all you have to do is provide enough information for SSA to conduct a search. As the instructions say, “complete as much information as possible.” As long as you pay the requisite search fee, SSA will conduct a search using the information you provide. There is even a provision for charging an extra $2.00 if you do not know the SSN.

    http://www.ssa.gov/online/ssa-711.pdf

    The fact that they conducted a search for Bounel proves nothing, other than that they found no records of him.

  161. avatar
    J.D. Sue February 17, 2014 at 12:55 pm #

    SvenMagnussen: Taitz was required to show Bounel existed, had a SSN, and was no longer protected by the Privacy Act to the SSA BEFORE a search would begin. SSA has sworn a search was conducted. Consequently, proof Bounel existed,had an SSN, and was no longer protected by the Privacy Act has been accepted by SSA as result of a discretionary determination by an executive level federal officer of the SSA. Otherwise, they would have never conducted a search.

    —–

    Baseless. Nonsensical.

  162. avatar
    Rickey February 17, 2014 at 12:55 pm #

    Hermitian: You are correct.The 1940 census lists only Harry Bounel.Harry Boymel was not listed.

    That clinches it for me — along with the Chicago tie-in to Obama and Harry’s 1890 birth year.

    You are proof positive of the old adage that “you can bring a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.”

  163. avatar
    sfjeff February 17, 2014 at 1:02 pm #

    SvenMagnussen:

    The US Asst AG was allowed to interview the SSA employee.

    Am I the only one who is dubious that any SSA employee would remember 1 specific search out of the probable millions of requests that they receive? There might not even be a record of what poor schmuck was assigned to waste his or her time on the search.

    Assuming he(lets call it a he) was identified, I imagine the questioning would be like this

    Orly: This paper shows you were the one who was supposed to have done this identity search- did you actually do the search?

    Bob the SSA employee: Hmmm if it says I did the search, then I guess maybe I did.

    Orly: Guess? Why are you covering up for the ursurper!

    Bob: Ummmm who is the ursurper?

    Orly: (screeching)that half arab/half white Indonesian/Kenyan sitting in the White House!

    Bob: Ummmmm okay. Ma’am, I research around 200 cases a day, and I don’t remember anything about any of them. If my name is on the report, then I was probably the one who did the search.

    Orly: (Screeching again) LEEEET ME FEEEEENISH!

    Bob: (looking around nervously, and checking out the nearest exits) Ummm can I get down now?

    Orly: OFF WITH HIS HEAD!

  164. avatar
    Jim February 17, 2014 at 1:02 pm #

    Hermitian: It only takes one pitch to hit a home run…The Babe proved that on October 1, 1932.

    See: “Babe Ruth’s called shot”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babe_Ruth's_called_shot

    Birthers are more like “Casey at the Bat”…struck out again.

  165. avatar
    Rickey February 17, 2014 at 1:04 pm #

    Hermitian: Harry Bounel came to America after 1920 ?

    There is no record of Harry Bounel ever coming to the United States. The name does not appear in any immigration records.

  166. avatar
    Rickey February 17, 2014 at 1:12 pm #

    Hermitian: It only takes one pitch to hit a home run…The Babe proved that on October 1, 1932.

    See: “Babe Ruth’s called shot”

    It’s ironic but appropriate that you would choose as your metaphor an event (the “called shot” part) which mostly likely is a myth.

  167. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG February 17, 2014 at 1:37 pm #

    Hermitian: It only takes one pitch to hit a home run…The Babe proved that on October 1, 1932.

    See: “Babe Ruth’s called shot”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babe_Ruth's_called_shot

    Your analogy might actually mean something, if this were baseball.

  168. avatar
    helen February 17, 2014 at 3:50 pm #

    this is entertaining, and instructive!

    You see posters here claiming that there are no Bounels in the USA, and that it must have been an error by the census takers mispelling the name, and then Bounel comes up in 1920.

    And a child was born a “bounel” in the 20s and that must have been the only Bounel in the USA, seemingly ignore the possiblity of a mother and father for the child,
    And if that child was , indeed, in existence , it would mean that there should be ancestry documents available, would it not.

    All evidence must support the anti-birthers, and must never question their positions.

    It is true, I believe, that there was a Bounel in the USA, and , if there was one, there has to be more, unless, of course, that baby was inllegitamate and the mother made up a name, and faked a bc.

    but that could never happen , could it?

    Heck, we can’t solve this problem as all of the opinions are set in stone!

    We just need the good old DNA and trace everything back to the garden of eden.
    No, not the Biblical one, but the Hawaiian islands. (and maybe, Kenya) lol

    Good dinner last night, so back to watching Olympics and the battles on the blogs.

  169. avatar
    helen February 17, 2014 at 3:55 pm #

    Rickey: There is no record of Harry Bounel ever coming to the United States. The name does not appear in any immigration records.

    And , it is your belief, that in the 1900s that the borders were closed and no immigrants came in , except through points of entry?

    Ship deserters where notorious for disappearing into the countryside!

    And, let us not forget, that not all ofl the USA were states in the 1900’s, shall we?

  170. avatar
    helen February 17, 2014 at 4:01 pm #

    “Am I the only one who is dubious that any SSA employee would remember 1 specific search out of the probable millions of requests that they receive? There might not even be a record of what poor schmuck was assigned to waste his or her time on the search”

    You may not be familar with the paperwork in a governmental office.

    You have to be able to document your search results when a request is received, in order that you can justiify the results of your search

    Heck, today it is all in the NSA’s files, in the computers.

    Probaly this posting is in there too.

    LOL

  171. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 17, 2014 at 4:04 pm #

    One should also keep in mind that the search was done after the lawsuit was filed, given an even greater incentive to do it right.

    Generally these government systems log keystrokes, so it would have been easy to go to the logs and find out exactly what search was entered.

    helen: You may not be familar with the paperwork in a governmental office.

    You have to be able to document your search results when a request is received, in order that you can justiify the results of your search

  172. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater February 17, 2014 at 4:19 pm #

    Hermitian: It only takes one pitch to hit a home run…The Babe proved that on October 1, 1932.

    See: “Babe Ruth’s called shot”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babe_Ruth's_called_shot

    As has been explained to you the season is over, the ballgame ended, the stadium was shut down and the players went home.

  173. avatar
    Thinker February 17, 2014 at 4:23 pm #

    While I’m sure Babe Ruth knew more about the law than Orly Taitz does, this comparison is ludicrous. A more apt baseball analogy…Orly Taitz is the might Casey and birthers are the joyless fans in Mudville.

    Hermitian: It only takes one pitch to hit a home run…The Babe proved that on October 1, 1932.

    See: “Babe Ruth’s called shot”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babe_Ruth's_called_shot

  174. avatar
    helen February 17, 2014 at 4:30 pm #

    Oh, Lordy, how I dislike the “most likely” comments.

    It is MOST LIKELY,that:

    Obama was born in the USA , on the Island of Hawaii, in the State Of Hawaii, on Aug 4, 1961 and was the natural son of Ann Dunham and Barak Obama!

    But does that mean that that is a fact?

    It s also MOST LIKELY,that:

    Lee Harvey Oswald was the killer of JFK , that he used a cheap riflte with a mis-aligned scope, and that he shot from the 6 floor window of the Texas Book Depostiority,

    it is also Most Likely that

    Bill Clinton did not have sex with that woman, as he stated so under oath!

    They are all most likely statements, and all might be true or false,

    and you can find supporters of each side of the statements.

    Mostlikely ;that is!

  175. avatar
    helen February 17, 2014 at 4:34 pm #

    Thinker: While I’m sure Babe Ruth knew more about the law than Orly Taitz does, this comparison is ludicrous. A more apt baseball analogy…Orly Taitz is the might Casey and birthers are the joyless fans in Mudville.

    A statement that resounds in its ignorance, perhaps intentionally, but probably in jest.

    You think Babe Ruth could have passed the bar of an state. Legal Bar Association ;and not the taverns of America.

  176. avatar
    helen February 17, 2014 at 4:40 pm #

    What a strange statement

    “The fact that they conducted a search for Bounel proves nothing, other than that they found no records of him.’

    What it proves is that they could provide no records for him or of him”

    Just like the bc records of the hospital where a child was born!

    They can find them but the law prohibits them from disclosing them.

    So the mere fact that they did not provide them, does not mean that they are not there.

  177. avatar
    helen February 17, 2014 at 4:50 pm #

    The Magic M (not logged in): SvenMagnussen

    I would hate to believe that a governmental employee testifing under oath would tell a deliberate lie to the questioning.
    the
    But, I will agree that that there are reason why it might happen.

    What isit Plomo or Plata that would make that occur.

  178. avatar
    helen February 17, 2014 at 4:57 pm #

    Scribunda: Certainly census takers can be wrong, which is why Harry Boymel is listed incorrectly as Harry Bounel on the 1940 census. If Harry Bounel were real, he would have registered for the draft like Louis Julius and Harry Boymel and almost every US man younger than 60 or so at the time. Yet there is no record of him.

    This is what happens when you try too hard.

    “Signed into law by Franklin Roosevelt in 1940, the Act established the first peace-time draft in United States history.[3] Under the Selective Training and Service Act, all American males between twenty-one and thirty-six years of age registered for the draft.

    if there was a ;H. Bounel born in 1890 he was too old for the draft!

    He would have had to be born in 1904 to be required to register.

    Another shot across the bow misses.

  179. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 17, 2014 at 5:17 pm #

    If that were true, how is it that Harry Boymel registered for the draft? How do you explain this?

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Boymel-draft.jpg

    This information was in the comment you replied to, had you bothered to actually read it.

    I can explain it because after original enactment, the Draft law changed:

    After the US entered World War II, a new selective service act required all men from 18 to 65 to register with those aged 18 to 45 being immediately liable for induction.

    The bigger they talk, the harder they fall.

    helen: if there was a ;H. Bounel born in 1890 he was too old for the draft!

    He would have had to be born in 1904 to be required to register.

    Another shot across the bow misses.

  180. avatar
    Rickey February 17, 2014 at 5:19 pm #

    helen:

    You see posters here claiming that there are no Bounels in the USA, and that it must have been an error by the census takers mispelling the name, and then Bounel comes up in 1920.

    Once again you mis-read or misunderstand what has been said here. No one is claiming that there has never been a Bounel in the United States. Quite the contrary – we know that there was at least one, a person named Golf Bounel who was born in 1924 and died in 1988.

    However, a Lexis-Nexis search shows that currently there is no record of anyone with the surame “Bounel” living in the United States, which proves that “Bounel is an exceedingly rare surname.

    By the same token, a Lexis-Nexis search turns up 159 records of people with the surname “Boymel.” That makes it a rare name, but not nearly as rare as “Bounel.”

    Now, the only record of “Harry Bounel” which we have is the 1940 census. We have no immigration records for him. We have no naturalization records for him. There is no record of “Harry Bounel” registering for the draft. His name does not appear in the Social Security Death Index. The Social Security Administration says that it has no record of him. His name does not appears in the 1930 census or the 1920 census. The 1950 census is not yet available for public scrutiny. We do now know for certain that the 1940 census entry which appears to say “Harry Bounel” has him living at 915 Elsmere Place, Bronx, N.Y.

    On the other hand, we have multiple records of Harry Boymel. We have his immigration records, we have his naturalization records, we have his draft records, we have his SS-5, and he is listed in the Social Security Death Index. Harry’s SS-5, which Doc will be posting in a day or two, shows him living at 915 Elsmere Place, Bronx, N.Y.

    The 1940 census says that “Harry Bounel” was from Russia, approximately 50 years old, married, and working in a fruit store.

    Harry Boymel’s SS-5 says that he was from Russia, 53 years old at the time of the 1940 census, married, and that until July, 1941 he was working in the fruit and vegetable business.

    You would have us believe that Harry Bounel and Harry Boymel were two different people. Two people with similar but very rare surnames, two people who lived at the same address, two people who were immigrants from Russia, two people who were approximately 50 years old in 1940, and both of whom worked in the fruit business. What are the odds against that sort of coincidence? Especially when there is no other record of “Harry Bounel” but multiple records of Harry Boymel.

    The only logical conclusion is that Harry Boymel and “Harry Bounel” are one and the same.

  181. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 17, 2014 at 5:20 pm #

    What law? SSA policy permits release of any record for a person 120 years or older.

    helen: They can find them but the law prohibits them from disclosing them.

    So the mere fact that they did not provide them, does not mean that they are not there.

  182. avatar
    Rickey February 17, 2014 at 5:24 pm #

    helen:

    They can find them but the law prohibits them from disclosing them.

    So the mere fact that they did not provide them, does not mean that they are not there.

    Wrong again. Does it give you a headache to be wrong so often?

    If “Harry Bounel” was 50 years old that the time of the 1940 census, he would be presumed to be legally dead now and the law would require the release of his Social Security Records, if they existed. They aren’t being provided because they don’t exist.

  183. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 17, 2014 at 5:31 pm #

    You picked 3 losers.

    1. Obama was born in Hawaii. This is firmly established.

    2. Lee Harvey Oswald (an expert military marksman) shot Kennedy. This is also firmly established.

    3. Clinton never said under oath that he did not have sex with Monica Lewinsky. He said it, but not under oath. Under oath he said “there is no sexual relationship” indicating that there was none at the current time, although some understood it to mean that there never had been. This lead to the infamous definition of what “is” is.

    Just because people hold a contrary opinion doesn’t mean that it’s worth a spit.

    helen:
    Oh, Lordy, how I dislike the “most likely” comments.

    It is MOST LIKELY,that:

    Obama was born in the USA , on the Island of Hawaii, in the State Of Hawaii, on Aug 4, 1961 and was the natural son of Ann Dunham and Barak Obama!

    But does that mean that that is a fact?

    It salso MOST LIKELY,that:

    Lee Harvey Oswald was the killer of JFK , that he used a cheap riflte with a mis-aligned scope, and that he shot from the 6 floor window of the Texas Book Depostiority,

    it is also Most Likely that

    Bill Clinton did not have sex with that woman, as he stated so under oath!

    They are all most likely statements, and all might be true or false,

    and you can find supporters of each side of the statements.

    Mostlikely ;that is!

  184. avatar
    Rickey February 17, 2014 at 5:35 pm #

    helen: And , it is your belief, that in the 1900s that the borders were closed and no immigrants came in , except through points of entry?

    Ship deserters where notorious for disappearing into the countryside!

    And, let us not forget, that not all ofl the USA were states in the 1900′s, shall we?

    Harry was from Russia. The only states which were admitted to the Union after 1900 were:

    Oklahoma
    New Mexico
    Arizona
    Hawaii
    Alaska

    Is it your contention that Harry Bounel could have illegally entered the U.S. through one of those territories? That would have been quite a trick.

    Provided a person could afford the passage and was not Asian, it was quite easy to immigrate to the U.S. legally during the first quarter of the 20th Century.

  185. avatar
    helen February 17, 2014 at 5:50 pm #

    Here is where you should find the one, the only , and the origninal H.J. Bounel

    “After the United States entered World War II, a new selective service act made men between 18 and 45 liable for military service and required all men between 18 and 65 to register”

    look him up in the draft files, and you might find him, one way or the other?

  186. avatar
    Thinker February 17, 2014 at 5:52 pm #

    I don’t think that the Harry Bounel listed in that census record existed. I think the evidence is quite compelling that he is Harry Boymel, but, in fairness, it’s possible that he did exist. Not probable, but possible. Perhaps his name was spelled differently on his immigration paperwork or in previous censuses. I can imagine that a Russian immigrant of that era with little education could have lived most of his life off the books. That would imply, however, that he probably never had a Social Security number.

    The SSA has affirmatively stated that the 4425 SSN belongs to a living person and that they have no record of Harry Bounel receiving a SSN. If he existed, he was not the original recipient of the 4425 SSN.

  187. avatar
    Northland10 February 17, 2014 at 5:55 pm #

    helen:
    What a strange statement

    Helen, please answer one key, simple question. What report from Hendershott, Daniels, or Sankey shows Harrison J. Bounel having a birthdate of 1890?

  188. avatar
    JPotter February 17, 2014 at 6:26 pm #

    helen: Another shot across the bow misses.

    Yeah, sorry about all those holes below the waterline. Meant to be warning shots. Really.

    helen: Oh, Lordy, how I dislike the “most likely” comments.

    Just met my RDA of Fe for the week!

  189. avatar
    John Reilly February 17, 2014 at 6:48 pm #

    helen:
    Here is where you should find the one, the only , and the origninal H.J. Bounel

    “After the United States entered World War II, a new selective service act made men between 18 and 45 liable for military service and required all men between 18 and 65 to register”

    look him up in the draft files, and you might find him, one way or the other?

    Why don’t you look him up in draft files if you think that is such a swell idea?

  190. avatar
    John Reilly February 17, 2014 at 6:56 pm #

    I looked him up in military records. No one named Bounel registered for the draft for World War II.

    Harry Boymel, born September 15, 1886, in Volyn Russia, registered in 1942. He lived in New Jersey at that time.

    Let us know when you will be back to apologize to RC.

  191. avatar
    Sef February 17, 2014 at 6:57 pm #

    helen: It is true, I believe, that there was a Bounel in the USA, and , if there was one, there has to be more, unless, of course, that baby was inllegitamate and the mother made up a name, and faked a bc.

    Maybe the name “daughtered out”.

  192. avatar
    John Reilly February 17, 2014 at 7:11 pm #

    Harry noted Ruth Boymel as his relative. She was born in 1924. Her Mother is Bella Boymel.

  193. avatar
    Scribunda February 17, 2014 at 7:21 pm #

    Hermitian: Harry Bounel came to America after 1920 ?

    Extremely unlikely. Restrictions were tightened on immigration from Russia and other Eastern European countries in 1921 and again in 1924 in an attempt to stem the flood of Jewish immigrants. Quotas were set based on how many people from that location had come earlier. It was very difficult for Russian Jews to get here.

    Further, most Jewish immigrants came to New York by way of Germany, although some did arrive in Baltimore and Pennsylvania. Neither Ellis Island nor any of the ship manifests have a record of anyone named any permutation of Harry + Bounel who was born in 1890 and arrived in the U.S. at any time, and not in 1920s. Further, if Harry Bounel were real and aged 50 in 1941, he would have been required to register for the draft. There is no draft registration for him, yet I can find one for all my relatives from that time, for the landlord, and for Harry Boymel and Boymel’s son.

    Nor is there a naturalization record for him.

    Give it up. You have lost this argument. Your phantom does not exist just because you want him to.

  194. avatar
    Joey February 17, 2014 at 7:22 pm #

    Immigrant Name Changes
    http://www.uscis.gov/history-and-genealogy/genealogy/genealogy-notebook/immigrant-name-changes

    June 27, 2013

    • From the Archives

    • American Names / Declaring
    Independence

    “We know from experience that records of entry of many aliens into the United States contain assumed or incorrect names and other errors.”

    From INS Operations Instruction 500.1 I, Legality of entry where record contains erroneous name or other errors, December 24, 1952.

    Among the reasons for the “incorrect” names were the immigrant’s using:

    A fictitious name
    The name of another person
    The true name in a misspelled form
    The surname of the stepfather instead of the natural father
    The surname of a putative father in the case of an illegitimate child
    A nickname
    The name used because of foreign custom, such as the given name of the father (with or without prefix or suffix) for the surname, the name of the farm, or some other name formulated by foreign custom
    The maiden name instead of the married name
    The maiden name of the mother instead of the father’s surname
    Below, read some letters from immigrants explaining their name changes and an essay about immigrants’ tendency to change their names…
    [Excerpt]

  195. avatar
    Rickey February 17, 2014 at 7:28 pm #

    helen:

    I well remember when H, J. Bounel came into play, and I well remember the people saying that he was the attorney, or the accountant, handling the Obama trust.

    I have no idea what “people” you are referring to, but there is no attorney named “Bounel” and there is no CPA named “Bounel” – anywhere.

  196. avatar
    Scribunda February 17, 2014 at 7:33 pm #

    helen:
    Here is where you should find the one, the only , and the origninal H.J. Bounel

    “After the United States entered World War II, a new selective service act made men between 18 and 45 liable for military service and required all men between 18 and 65 to register”

    look him up in the draft files, and you might find him, one way or the other?

    I spent a very long time on Ancestry one day looking at every WW I and WW II draft registration for anyone born between 1889 and 1991 whose last name started with the letters “Bo” “Ba” and “Bu.” There was no Harry Bounel and the closest name was Harry Boymel.

    Why do you keep arguing for people to find proof that Harry Bounel existed when there is far more proof that Harry Boymel is Harry Bounel? How do you rationalize your willingness to believe one government record–an obviously flawed one–but not to believe other records? Are you really incapable of logic? There is no Harry Bounel and never has been who was born in 1890 or 1889 or 1891 and emigrated to the U.S. from Russia.

    There was a Harry Boymel who lived at the same address in 1941 as Louis Julius lived at in 1940 and earlier. He was married but not living with his wife. He was a fruit vendor. He emigrated from Russia and was Jewish. He registered for the drafts. He had an SSN.

    And his wife, who was living in Pennsylvania for the 1940 census, said in that census that she had been living in New York the year before.

    Too much to be a coincidence.

  197. avatar
    Hermitian February 17, 2014 at 7:38 pm #

    Rickey: Now, the only record of “Harry Bounel” which we have is the 1940 census.

    Translation: Now, the only record of “Harry Bounel” which we Obots have is the 1940 census.

    I just did a one-time Ancestry search for Harry Bounel (just the name — no age, birth year or city/state) and turned up hits for the 1920, 1930, and 1940 census and voter lists. This Harry Bounel (or Bormel) was married to Anna, was born in Russia around 1894 and lived in Maryland. There also was an older Harry Bounel born in 1860 (in the US) listed for the 1910 census.

    Of course, our Harry Bounel (born in 1890) and living in the Bronx was listed in the 1940 census.

    In all there were 4,277 hits for my single search — Bonnel was another spelling.

    I could easily dump all of their records — but why bother ? I already knew that all you Obots were just blowing smoke.

    ROTFL…

  198. avatar
    John Reilly February 17, 2014 at 7:41 pm #

    Scribunda: I spent a very long time on Ancestry one day looking at every WW I and WW II draft registration for anyone born between 1889 and 1991 whose last name started with the letters “Bo” “Ba” and “Bu.” There was no Harry Bounel and the closest name was Harry Boymel.

    Why do you keep arguing for people to find proof that Harry Bounel existed when there is far more proof that Harry Boymel is Harry Bounel? How do you rationalize your willingness to believe one government record–an obviously flawed one–but not to believe other records? Are you really incapable of logic? There is no Harry Bounel and never has been who was born in 1890 or 1889or 1891 and emigrated to the U.S. from Russia.

    There was a Harry Boymel who lived at the same address in 1941 as Louis Julius lived at in 1940 and earlier. He was married but not living with his wife. He was a fruit vendor. He emigrated from Russia and was Jewish. He registered for the drafts. He had an SSN.

    And his wife, who was living in Pennsylvania for the 1940 census, said in that census that she had been living in New York the year before.

    Too much to be a coincidence.

    You can run “Bounel” and”Boymel” in Ancestry.Com. The number of results is not daunting. You need not use first names.

    Except to Birthers who keep searching for something and someone who does not exist.

  199. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 17, 2014 at 7:49 pm #

    I could make no sense of your comment. The records you found were for someone born 6 or more years before the person you claim owns Obama’s SSN. They simply don’t match and don’t matter.

    I ran Ancestry searches months ago and know what you posted, but it doesn’t fit and it doesn’t help your case.

    You’re wasting our time. Back in the box.

    Hermitian: Translation:Now, the only record of “Harry Bounel” which we Obots have is the 1940 census.

    I just did a one-time Ancestry search for Harry Bounel (just the name — no age, birth year or city/state) and turned up hits for the 1920, 1930, and 1940 census and voter lists.This Harry Bounel (or Bormel) was married to Anna, was born in Russia around 1894 and lived in Maryland.There also was an older Harry Bounel born in 1860 (in the US) listed for the 1910 census.

    Of course, our Harry Bounel (born in 1890) and living in the Bronx was listed in the 1940 census.

    In all there were 4,277 hits for my single search — Bonnel was another spelling.

    I could easily dump all of their records — but why bother ?I already knew that all you Obots were just blowing smoke.

    ROTFL…

  200. avatar
    Rickey February 17, 2014 at 7:57 pm #

    Hermitian:
    I just did a one-time Ancestry search for Harry Bounel (just the name — no age, birth year or city/state) and turned up hits for the 1920, 1930, and 1940 census and voter lists.This Harry Bounel (or Bormel) was married to Anna, was born in Russia around 1894 and lived in Maryland.There also was an older Harry Bounel born in 1860 (in the US) listed for the 1910 census.

    Hermie causes another irony meter to explode.

    Your “Harry Bounel” born in 1894 was actually named Harry Bormel, as proven by the Social Security Death Index:

    HARRY BORMEL
    Date of Birth: 6 Jan 1894
    Date of Death: Jan 1976
    Last Residence: Pikesville, Baltimore, MD 21208
    SSN: 219-32-5101

    Besides, my point was that the only record of the “Harry Bounel” who is listed in the 1940 is the 1940 census. The “Harry Bounel” who was born in 1860 obviously is not the “Harry Bounel” who is listed in the 1940 census.

  201. avatar
    Thinker February 17, 2014 at 8:14 pm #

    No, but I don’t think Orly Taitz could either. I have no evidence that she cheated, but there is plenty of evidence that she doesn’t know enough about the law to pass the bar today. Everything she submits to courts reeks of abject incompetence. I am skeptical that she took the bar exam herself. If she did, then her cognitive functioning has deteriorated substantially since that time. Given her notorious inability to fill out forms and mail packages, I don’t believe she could even figure out how to register to take the bar exam today, let alone pass the test.

    helen:You think Babe Ruth could have passedthe bar of an state. Legal Bar Association ;and not the taverns of America.

  202. avatar
    helen February 17, 2014 at 8:28 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: What law? SSA policy permits release of any record for a person 120 years or older.

    birth and health recods are, I believe, not allowed to be released on death as they are not SSA records, are they?

  203. avatar
    Scribunda February 17, 2014 at 8:37 pm #

    John Reilly: You can run “Bounel” and”Boymel” in Ancestry.Com.The number of results is not daunting.You need not use first names.

    Except to Birthers who keep searching for something and someone who does not exist.

    I know, but I wanted to be thorough. I was checking to see whether “Bounel” could have been a misspelling because it made no sense that no other records could be found. I did not know about Boymel at first. And there was simply nothing that matched the census information for Harry Bounel, so I had concluded that the name and birthdate were wrong when Fre at Fogbow brought up Boymel, and it all made sense.

    Today, I found a public notice published in a Pennsylvania paper in 1930 announcing the sale of Bella Baumel’s “grocery and produce” store. I thought it was interesting that it was said to be her store.

    I also found that they had an extremely successful son and two very successful granddaughters.

  204. avatar
    Hermitian February 17, 2014 at 9:08 pm #

    915 Elsmere Place the Bronx is currently a vacant lot.

    http://www.trulia.com/homes/New_York/Bronx/sold/20083171-915-Elsmere-Pl-Bronx-NY-10460

  205. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 17, 2014 at 10:47 pm #

    Laws regarding the release of birth records vary from state to state, and in some states like California you can get a birth record for a living person. My recollection from the last time I looked into it is that most states allow release of birth records after a period of time.

    Healthcare providers, insurance companies and claims clearinghouses are prohibited from releaseing protected health information without consent under the Privacy Rule of the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996. It is generally understood that this prohibition continues after death. I haven’t looked at this in a few years.

    helen: birth and health recods are, I believe, not allowed to be released on death as they are not SSA records, are they?

  206. avatar
    Rickey February 17, 2014 at 11:07 pm #

    Hermitian:
    915 Elsmere Place the Bronx is currently a vacant lot.

    So? It wasn’t a vacant lot in 1940. Lila Blank, Class of 1947 at Evander Childs High School, lived there according to her high school yearbook.

    http://www.e-yearbook.com/yearbooks/Evander_Childs_High_School_Oriole_Yearbook/1947/Page_41.html

  207. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater February 17, 2014 at 11:15 pm #

    Hermitian: Translation:Now, the only record of “Harry Bounel” which we Obots have is the 1940 census.

    I just did a one-time Ancestry search for Harry Bounel (just the name — no age, birth year or city/state) and turned up hits for the 1920, 1930, and 1940 census and voter lists.This Harry Bounel (or Bormel) was married to Anna, was born in Russia around 1894 and lived in Maryland.There also was an older Harry Bounel born in 1860 (in the US) listed for the 1910 census.

    Of course, our Harry Bounel (born in 1890) and living in the Bronx was listed in the 1940 census.

    In all there were 4,277 hits for my single search — Bonnel was another spelling.

    I could easily dump all of their records — but why bother ?I already knew that all you Obots were just blowing smoke.

    ROTFL…

    Yes and each of your “hits” reference a Harry Bounel, Harry Bormel and Harry Bonnel each with a spouse named Anna born about the same time in Russia.

  208. avatar
    Thinker February 17, 2014 at 11:41 pm #

    “BLANK, LILA 915 Elsmere Place, Her four long years of commercial education, Have pre-pared her to give a husband dictation.”

    Rickey: So? It wasn’t a vacant lot in 1940. Lila Blank, Class of 1947 at Evander Childs High School, lived there according to her high school yearbook.

    http://www.e-yearbook.com/yearbooks/Evander_Childs_High_School_Oriole_Yearbook/1947/Page_41.html

  209. avatar
    helen February 18, 2014 at 1:46 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Laws regarding the release of birth records vary from state to state, and in some states like California you can get a birth record for a living person. My recollection from the last time I looked into it is that most states allow release of birth records after a period of time.

    of course they do, and so did Hawaii until Obama problems arose. You could only get a non-certified copy though..

    and it really makes no difference to anyone as the state certification means nothing at all, other than saying it is a copy of a record on file.

    It would be interesting for a foreign company to request an apostille from Hawaii for any birth certificate to see if they will guarantee the information on the birth certificate is accurate, correct , and legally valid.

    I know what the response will be, and I will surmise that your are aware of it also.

  210. avatar
    helen February 18, 2014 at 3:28 am #

    Ah hah , the address problem is solved and Daly st is correct.

    1915 Daly is almost across the street from 915 elsmere, and it is probably that the street is right, and the taker left off the one on the address rather than making a mistake on the street name,

    Yes, it could be either one, but must you alway accept the one that you conclude is the right error in the taking without due consideration of the more probable event.

    It seems to be easily to make the mistake of hearing 1915 as 915, where as to hear elsmere instead of daly is a more difficult thing to mishear.

  211. avatar
    The Magic M February 18, 2014 at 4:51 am #

    Rickey: Lila Blank, Class of 1947 at Evander Childs High School, lived there according to her high school yearbook.

    More proof the conspiracy started way before 1961? ;-)

  212. avatar
    The Magic M February 18, 2014 at 4:57 am #

    Scribunda: How do you rationalize your willingness to believe one government record–an obviously flawed one–but not to believe other records?

    That’s one main aspect of a conspiracy believer.

    A sane person looks at the entirety of data and can identify outliers.
    A conspiracy nut picks one data point (usually the earliest he sees, or the one that conforms to his confirmation bias the most) and then has no problem claiming all other data points are inconsistencies/forgeries.

    The best example is the BC number – birthers took the first data relation they had (Obama vs. Nordyke) and based their theory (“numbers are assigned in order of birth, therefore Obama’s number is off”) on that.
    As more and more BC numbers emerged, they didn’t adjust their theory to the facts (that numbers were assigned alphabetically each month) but stuck to their original theory claiming all other BC’s are forgeries.

    Which is akin to a physicist who claims relativity theory is wrong and all current experiments are forgeries simply because they do not align with the old Newtonian physics he used to know.

  213. avatar
    SvenMagnussen February 18, 2014 at 5:49 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    One should also keep in mind that the search was done after the lawsuit was filed, given an even greater incentive to do it right.

    Generally these government systems log keystrokes, so it would have been easy to go to the logs and find out exactly what search was entered.

    Actually, the search was done after Taitz traveled to Maryland to request a copy of Bounel’s SSA records in person. Taitz was told the records existed, but she could not have a copy because it would violate Bounel’s right to privacy. This put Orly into orbit because it violates the SSA’s 120 year doctrine. After a person is believed to be 120 years old, their records are no longer protected by the Privacy Act.

    Now, of course, the SSA claims the records don’t exist and Taitz is really searching for Boymel’s records. Boymel’s SSN isn’t close to Obama’s SSN. Case closed.

    It’s a good thing an Obama appointed judge is assigned to the case because any other judge might get upset about the bait and switch pulled by the SSA.

  214. avatar
    interestedbystander February 18, 2014 at 6:03 am #

    SvenMagnussen: Actually, the search was done after Taitz traveled to Maryland to request a copy of Bounel’s SSA records in person. Taitz was told the records existed, but she could not have a copy because it would violate Bounel’s right to privacy.

    That’s a blatant lie and you know it – why do you continue when not a single person here is fooled by your drivel?

  215. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 18, 2014 at 8:09 am #

    If your theory is correct, it adds nothing to the discussion except your agreement that the census record is unreliable. You still have a Harry Bounel that appears out of thin air to be counted by the census and then disappears. Not looking good.

    helen: Ah hah , the address problem is solved and Daly st is correct.

  216. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 18, 2014 at 8:17 am #

    Your comment is not true.

    The law about verification in lieu of a certified copy didn’t change because of Obama. It’s been that way since 2001

    http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0014_0003.htm

    Attorney Scott Tepper got one of these verifications as did Secretary of State Bennett in Arizona and Kobach in Kansas, all without any waiver or release from the President.

    If an apostille were legally requested then it would be issued with the same language and guarantees as any other record from Hawaii. An apostille is a certified copy, only certified by the state Secretary of State rather than the chief of vital records. Suggesting that Obama’s certified copy is somehow not authoritative because you don’t have an apostille, is a pathetic attempt at goal shifting, about the only tactic birthers know. Bah.

    Your remark, “the state certification means nothing at all, other than saying it is a copy of a record on file” just shows how out of touch birthers are with reality, their reality being defined by their conspiracy theory, and not by reason. The Hawaii verification do not, as you put it, just say that there is a record on file, but rather verify specific content.

    helen: of course they do, and so did Hawaii until Obama problems arose. You could only get a non-certified copy though..

    and it really makes no difference to anyone as the state certification means nothing at all, other than saying it is a copy of a record on file.

    It would be interesting for a foreign company to request an apostille from Hawaii for any birth certificate to see if they will guarantee the information on the birth certificate is accurate, correct , and legally valid.

    I know what the response will be, and I will surmise that your are aware of it also.

  217. avatar
    Northland10 February 18, 2014 at 9:06 am #

    1915 Daly is a church and school, and has been for 100 years. Was Harry a priest or a nun? Do try and keep up.

    Are you going to answer my question, where is Harrison J Bounel listed as having a birth year of 1890?

    helen:
    Ah hah , the address problem is solved and Daly st is correct.

    1915 Daly is almost across the street from 915 elsmere, and it is probably that the street is right, and the taker left off the one on the address rather than making a mistake on the street name,

    Yes, it could be either one, but must you alway accept the one that you conclude is the right error in the taking without due consideration of the more probable event.

    It seems to be easily to make the mistake of hearing 1915 as 915, where as to hear elsmere instead of daly is a more difficult thing to mishear.

  218. avatar
    John Reilly February 18, 2014 at 9:18 am #

    Helen answers no questions.

    Helen suggests that someone else check draft records. When we do and point out that Harry Bounel does not exist but that Harry Boymel does she is silent. Unable to process information.

    Sven asserts that SSA told Dr. Taitz to her face that Bounel’s records exist. Dr. Taitz asserts no such thing. She does not make that claim.

    A pair of trolls.

  219. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater February 18, 2014 at 9:52 am #

    John Reilly: Helen answers no questions.Helen suggests that someone else check draft records. When we do and point out that Harry Bounel does not exist but that Harry Boymel does she is silent. Unable to process information.Sven asserts that SSA told Dr. Taitz to her face that Bounel’s records exist. Dr. Taitz asserts no such thing. She does not make that claim.A pair of trolls.

    That’s because “helen” is traderjack. He got so embarrassed the last time he was here that he’s now using this alias. You can tell by the trolling and the word salads that defy logic.

  220. avatar
    The Magic M February 18, 2014 at 10:35 am #

    SvenMagnussen: It’s a good thing an Obama appointed judge is assigned to the case because any other judge might get upset about the bait and switch pulled by the SSA.

    You mean like all those Reagan-appointed judges who have told Orly to shove it?

  221. avatar
    aarrgghh February 18, 2014 at 11:42 am #

    sven and helen
    sittin’ in a tree
    B-I-R-F
    I-N-G
    first comes lies
    then comes spin
    and there goes barry
    with a second win
    burma shave

  222. avatar
    AGROD February 18, 2014 at 12:18 pm #

    Where in the world did “helen” get his education – I have never seen anyone write in such a foolish manner when discussing facts.

  223. avatar
    Rickey February 18, 2014 at 12:20 pm #

    helen:
    Ah hah , the address problem is solved and Daly st is correct.

    1915 Daly is almost across the street from 915 elsmere, and it is probably that the street is right, and the taker left off the one on the address rather than making a mistake on the street name,

    Yes, it could be either one, but must you alway accept the one that you conclude is the right error in the taking without due consideration of the more probable event.

    It seems to be easily to make the mistake of hearing 1915 as 915, where as to hear elsmere instead of daly is a more difficult thing to mishear.

    You’re wrong again.

    1915 Daly Avenue (not Street) is more than a football field away from 915 Elsmere Place (364 feet, to be exact). It’s not across the street, it’s around the corner. 915 Elsmere Place is approximately halfway between Crotona Parkway and Daly Avenue; 1915 Daly Avenue is almost half a block south of the intersection of Elsmere Place and Daly Avenue.

    There is no way that a census enumerator would have confused one address with the other.

  224. avatar
    Rickey February 18, 2014 at 12:40 pm #

    Thinker:
    “BLANK, LILA 915 Elsmere Place, Her four long years of commercial education, Have pre-pared her to give a husband dictation.”

    She also is in the 1940 census. She was born in 1932 or 1933, so she might be alive today. But of course we have no idea what her last name is.

    She and her mother were born in Russia but her father was born in New York.

  225. avatar
    Sef February 18, 2014 at 12:41 pm #

    The Magic M: Which is akin to a physicist who claims relativity theory is wrong and all current experiments are forgeries simply because they do not align with the old Newtonian physics he used to know.

    Do you know any currently living physicists who were trained in physics before 1905?

  226. avatar
    Rickey February 18, 2014 at 1:29 pm #

    helen:

    It seems to be easily to make the mistake of hearing 1915 as 915, where as to hear elsmere instead of daly is a more difficult thing to mishear.

    Mishear? Do you understand how the census worked? The enumerators went from door to door. They knew which address they were at before they started asking questions. They didn’t ask people what the address was. The enumerator was physically present at 915 Elsmere Place when the census was done. Mishearing had nothing to do with the address, although it may have played a party in misspelling the name.

  227. avatar
    Crustacean February 18, 2014 at 1:43 pm #

    helen: 1915 Daly is almost across the street from 915 elsmere, and it is probably that the street is right, and the taker left off the one on the address rather than making a mistake on the street name,

    “Probably”? Doesn’t that mean essentially the same thing as “most likely”? You know, the kind of comments you claim to dislike so much.

    helen: Yes, it could be either one, but must you alway accept the one that you conclude is the right error in the taking without due consideration of the more probable event.

    And that was a brand new irony meter, too!!

  228. avatar
    Rickey February 18, 2014 at 1:51 pm #

    Just to clarify, because we at Obama Conspiracy Theories are dedicated to the truth and the whole truth:

    I decided to go back and take a closer look at the 1940 census. It turns that there were people living at 1915 Daly Avenue in 1940, although “Harry Bounel” wasn’t one of them.

    1915 Daly Avenue currently is owned by the Church of St. Thomas Aquinas, but the church may not have owned the property in 1940. To clarify that would require doing a physical search of the New York City property records archive.

    Regardless of who owned it, the 1940 census shows that there were about a dozen residential units at 1915 Daly Avenue in 1940, making it a small apartment building. These are the surnames of the people who were living there:

    Sinclair
    Kestenbaum
    Pelton
    Siegelman
    Ziner
    Crystal
    Shapiro
    Norman
    DeBonis (sp?)
    Alvarez
    Boldt
    Williams
    Amanna
    Tompos
    Breen

    No “Bounel” or anything remotely similar can be found.

    The Enumeration District No. is 3-1199, Sheets 5B-6A.

    For anyone who has not looked the census before, the sheets are numbered chronologically 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B, etc.

    The entry for “Harry Bounel” is found on sheet 13B, which is fourteen sheets AFTER the enumeration for 1915 Daly Avenue. Sheet 13B is a continuation of the data on Sheet 13A, which clearly states in ink “915 Elsmere Place.”

    Could he enumerator have confused 1915 Daly Avenue with 915 Elmsere Place, as TrollerJack aka Helen has suggested? I would say that it was impossible, because while 915 Elmsere Place and 915 Daly Avenue were in the same Enumeration District, there were on different blocks.

    915 Elsmere Place was Block D, whereas 1915 Daley Avenue was Block E.

    Furthermore, the census for 915 Elsmere Place begins on Sheet 12B, and guess whose name appears on Sheet 12B? None other then Lila Blank, who was ten years old at the time, and whose 1947 high school yearbook says that she lived at 915 Elsmere Place.

  229. avatar
    Thinker February 18, 2014 at 2:12 pm #

    Also note that the households on the census sheets are numbered. The first sheet for 915 Elsmere ends with household #309, the Harry Bounel sheet begins with household number 310 and ends with household number 319, and the next sheet (still listing 915 Elsmere Place) begins with household number 320. Quite a coincidence if the Harry Bounel sheet is really for an address other than 915 Elsmere.

  230. avatar
    Rickey February 18, 2014 at 2:25 pm #

    Thinker:
    Also note that the households on the census sheets are numbered. The first sheet for 915 Elsmere ends with household #309, the Harry Bounel sheet begins with household number 310 and ends with household number 319, and the next sheet (still listing 915 Elsmere Place) begins with household number 320. Quite a coincidence if the Harry Bounel sheet is really for an address other than 915 Elsmere.

    Excellent points. And the listings for 1915 Daly Avenue end with no. 99 or 100 (it’s difficult to tell which because the enumerator seems to have listed 99 three times), which is a long way from 310.

    The only plausible explanation for the confusion is that the Daly Avenue notation on Sheet 13B was placed there in error.

  231. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 18, 2014 at 2:51 pm #

    A link to the Boymel SS-5 has been added to the article. Thanks, Rickey.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Boymel-SS5.pdf

  232. avatar
    Reality Check February 18, 2014 at 4:15 pm #

    Again kudos to Fre at TFB and Rickey.

    Meanwhile Orly continues to seek the imaginary Harry Bounel’s nonexistent SS-5 wasn’t time and money in her tilting at windmills.

  233. avatar
    Rickey February 18, 2014 at 4:43 pm #

    It is also worth noting that the same enumerator did both 1915 Daly Avenue and 915 Elsmere Place. However, she did 1915 Daly Avenue on April 6 and April 8 and she did 915 Elsmere Place on April 16, which proves beyond a shadow of doubt that she did not confuse the two addresses. When she was at 915 Elsmere Place she could not possibly have thought that she was at 1915 Daly Avenue because she had done the Daly Avenue address a week earlier.

  234. avatar
    Rickey February 18, 2014 at 4:45 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    A link to the Boymel SS-5 has been added to the article. Thanks, Rickey.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Boymel-SS5.pdf

    That’s nice, but does it have layers?

  235. avatar
    Reality Check February 18, 2014 at 5:40 pm #

    Actually no. It was scanned on a Brother MFC-8810-DW. That scanner must not have MRC compression built in.

    Rickey: That’s nice, but does it have layers?

  236. avatar
    chancery February 18, 2014 at 5:58 pm #

    Scribunda: I know, but I wanted to be thorough. I was checking to see whether “Bounel” could have been a misspelling because it made no sense that no other records could be found. I did not know about Boymel at first. And there was simply nothing that matched the census information for Harry Bounel, so I had concluded that the name and birthdate were wrong when Fre at Fogbow brought up Boymel, and it all made sense.

    Today, I found a public notice published in a Pennsylvania paper in 1930 announcing the sale of Bella Baumel’s “grocery and produce” store. I thought it was interesting that it was said to be her store.

    I also found that they had an extremely successful son and two very successful granddaughters.

    For a few seconds I thought you might be referring to a prominent economist, but then I realized that William Baumol’s name is slightly different. But perhaps a variation from the same root?

    Paul, what think?

  237. avatar
    JPotter February 18, 2014 at 6:12 pm #

    Reality Check: Brother

    I don’t think any Brother devices offer any form of MRC. Hard to prove that negative, w/o breaking down and calling Brother. You could always apply MRC post-scan, with Nuance or similar software, if you’re feeling left out on the layers craze ;)

  238. avatar
    helen February 18, 2014 at 6:14 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: If an apostille were legally requested then it would be issued with the same language and guarantees as any other record from Hawaii. An apostille is a certified copy, only certified by the state Secretary of State rather than the chief of vital records. Suggesting that Obama’s certified copy is somehow not authoritative because you don’t have an apostille, is a pathetic attempt at goal shifting, about the only tactic birthers know. Bah.

    Apostile, Gee, I know you will hate this, Dr. C.

    http://ltgov.hawaii.gov/the-office/apostilles-and-certifications/

    STATEMENT OF LEGAL EFFECT OF AN APOSTILLE

    Apostilles certify only that a document has been signed by, and bears the seal and stamp of, a duly commissioned Notary Public of the State of Hawaii OR was certified by the appropriate custodian of records (e.g. Court Clerk). b>An Apostille does not validate the substance, contents, and/or legal effect of the document, nor that the document has been approved and/or endorsed by the Lieutenant Governor, the State of Hawaii, or any court of competent jurisdiction.

    I will , of course, expect debate on this!

  239. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 18, 2014 at 6:19 pm #

    There you are wrong. I’m not going to debate this. An apostille is an addendum to a birth certificate. The authority is in the underlying document. Apostille’s are typically used in foreign transactions, and only say “yes, this is our record.”

    I’m mostly going to delete your stuff from here on out. You were banned some time ago, and now you’re just wasting people’s times who feel the need to correct your obviously wrong stuff. I have come to the conclusion that you know your stuff is wrong, and you just post to cause trouble (i.e. a Troll).

    If you have something that makes, sense or interesting, I’ll allow it to appear.

    helen: STATEMENT OF LEGAL EFFECT OF AN APOSTILLE

    Apostilles certify only that a document has been signed by, and bears the seal and stamp of, a duly commissioned Notary Public of the State of Hawaii OR was certified by the appropriate custodian of records (e.g. Court Clerk). b>An Apostille does not validate the substance, contents, and/or legal effect of the document, nor that the document has been approved and/or endorsed by the Lieutenant Governor, the State of Hawaii, or any court of competent jurisdiction.

    I will , of course, expect debate on this!

  240. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 18, 2014 at 6:45 pm #

    The Brother scanner comes with a copy of Nuance Paperport SE. When you press the scan button on the multifunction device it invokes the desktop software, so if you scan to OCR, Nuance gets invoked. One of the options called “High Compression PDF” appears to be doing MRC, as it breaks the document into objects.

    I scanned the SS-5 from inside Adobe Acrobat. I applied Acrobat’s version of MRC (Optimize Scanned PDF) but the result was a tad larger than the original and didn’t look as good, so I didn’t post the compressed version. I probably could have reduced the quality setting and made it smaller. This is quite unusual. Yesterday I scanned my copy of “Our Friend Bary” to PDF and it was about 17 MB, but after compression it was about 3 including OCR.

    Reality Check: Actually no. It was scanned on a Brother MFC-8810-DW. That scanner must not have MRC compression built in.

  241. avatar
    Scribunda February 18, 2014 at 11:56 pm #

    helen: This is what happens when you try too hard.

    “Signed into law by Franklin Roosevelt in 1940, the Act established the first peace-time draft in United States history.[3] Under the Selective Training and Service Act, all American males between twenty-one and thirty-six years of age registered for the draft.

    if there was a ;H. Bounel born in 1890 he was too old for the draft!

    He would have had to be born in 1904 to be required to register.

    Another shot across the bow misses.

    Why don’t you go back to Wikipedia and read about the fourth round draft, also known as the “old man’s draft?” (Hint, it required men up to age 65 to register.)

    And while you are at it, why don’t you read about the 1921 and 1924 immigration acts and how difficult Congress deliberately made it for Russian/Eastern European Jews to come here after 1921?

    You are arguing rather stupidly. Maybe you should go back to making sycophantic comments on Orly’s site. She is comfortable with people who make little sense and ignore reality.

  242. avatar
    Scribunda February 19, 2014 at 12:01 am #

    chancery: For a few seconds I thought you might be referring to a prominent economist, but then I realized that William Baumol’s name is slightly different. But perhaps a variation from the same root?

    Paul, what think?

    Probably. Baum is German for tree, if I remember correctly. Names like Applebaum, Baumgarten, etc. were common among Germans and German-Austrian Jews. I read that Baumol (with two dots over the o) was used to refer to olive oil in Germany and means “tree oil.” But I do not speak Germsn, so I am only going by what I have read.

  243. avatar
    Scribunda February 19, 2014 at 12:07 am #

    Rickey:
    Just to clarify, because we at Obama Conspiracy Theories are dedicated to the truth and the whole truth:

    I decided to go back and take a closer look at the 1940 census. It turns that there were people living at 1915 Daly Avenue in 1940, although “Harry Bounel” wasn’t one of them.

    1915 Daly Avenue currently is owned by the Church of St. Thomas Aquinas, but the church may not have owned the property in 1940. To clarify that would require doing a physical search of the New York City property

    Could he enumerator have confused 1915 Daly Avenue with 915 Elmsere Place, as TrollerJack aka Helen has suggested? I would say that it was impossible, because while 915 Elmsere Place and 915 Daly Avenue were in the same Enumeration District, there were on different blocks.

    915 Elsmere Place was Block D, whereas 1915 Daley Avenue was Block E.

    Furthermore, the census for 915 Elsmere Place begins on Sheet 12B, and guess whose name appears on Sheet 12B? None other then Lila Blank, who was ten years old at the time, and whose 1947 high school yearbook says that she lived at 915 Elsmere Place.

    And there is the pesky fact that earlier records show Louis Julius and his wife lived at 915 Elsmere Place. I have no doubt if you looked for other people on that page in other census records, you would find several who lived at 915 Elsmere. (Do not forget, New York had its own census between the years of the federal census. I found Julius on one of them.)

  244. avatar
    The Magic M February 19, 2014 at 6:19 am #

    Scribunda: Baum is German for tree, if I remember correctly. Names like Applebaum, Baumgarten, etc. were common among Germans and German-Austrian Jews. I read that Baumol (with two dots over the o) was used to refer to olive oil in Germany and means “tree oil.” But I do not speak Germsn, so I am only going by what I have read.

    That’s entirely correct. :)

    (Names that refer to professions – “Schneider” = taylor – or things – “Grünspan” = copper rust – are common among Jewish Germans/Austrians.)

    “Baumöl” is a very rare name in Germany/Austria; I’ve never heard of anyone bearing it, though Google finds several results, including people murdered in concentration camps.

  245. avatar
    Hermitian February 19, 2014 at 10:13 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Dr. Conspiracy
    February 18, 2014 at 6:45 pm Dr. Conspiracy(Quote)
    #

    The Brother scanner comes with a copy of Nuance Paperport SE. When you press the scan button on the multifunction device it invokes the desktop software, so if you scan to OCR, Nuance gets invoked. One of the options called “High Compression PDF” appears to be doing MRC, as it breaks the document into objects.
    I scanned the SS-5 from inside Adobe Acrobat. I applied Acrobat’s version of MRC (Optimize Scanned PDF) but the result was a tad larger than the original and didn’t look as good, so I didn’t post the compressed version.

    Maybe then you could explain why Adobe Acrobat XI Pro indicates that your posted PDF image has already been optimized ?

  246. avatar
    Rickey February 19, 2014 at 11:10 am #

    Scribunda: Probably. Baum is German for tree, if I remember correctly.

    That’s correct. When I was in high school there was a family named Nussbaum in my home town and they owned a bar called The Nut Tree Inn.

  247. avatar
    The Magic M February 19, 2014 at 11:35 am #

    Adding to my last post, I’ve noticed it seems to be common that when Jews with German names emigrate to the US, they often anglicize only parts of their names, e.g. “Grünspan” becomes “Greenspan”, “Liebermann” becoming “Lieberman” etc. If something similar happened to “Baumöl”, it might very well be changed to “Baumoil”.

  248. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 19, 2014 at 2:38 pm #

    Hmmm. Maybe the optimization is automatic. That would explain why optimizing it didn’t reduce the size.

    Hermitian: Maybe then you could explain why Adobe Acrobat XI Pro indicates that your posted PDF image has already been optimized ?

  249. avatar
    helen February 19, 2014 at 3:49 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    There you are wrong. I’m not going to debate this. An apostille is an addendum to a birth certificate. The authority is in the underlying document. Apostille’s are typically used in foreign transactions, and only say “yes, this is our record.”

    I’m mostly going to delete your stuff from here on out. You were banned some time ago, and now you’re just wasting people’s times who feel the need to correct your obviously wrong stuff. I have come to the conclusion that you know your stuff is wrong, and you just post to cause trouble (i.e. a Troll).

    If you have something that makes, sense or interesting, I’ll allow it to appear.

    Well, here is the actual fact about the apostille that you seem to want not to discuss.

    http://www.apostilla.com/hawaii-apostille

    APOSTILLE

    Hawaii Birth and Marriage Certificates, and Divorce Decrees should be Certified Copies that display original signature (not stamped signature) from the State Registrar of the Department of Health.

    Now that would mean that the LFBC would not be acceptable, (the one under discussion at various times?

    Now I know it says “should” and not “shall”, but if you look at the site it makes a strong statment about it.

    I am very seldom wrong, but sometimes people disagree with the truth!

  250. avatar
    helen February 19, 2014 at 3:55 pm #

    Scribunda: Why don’t you go back to Wikipedia and read about the fourth round draft, also known as the “old man’s draft?” (Hint, it required men up to age 65 to register.)

    And while you are at it, why don’t you read about the 1921 and 1924 immigration acts and how difficult Congress deliberately made it for Russian/Eastern European Jews to come here after 1921?

    You are arguing rather stupidly. Maybe you should go back to making sycophantic comments on Orly’s site. She is comfortable with people who make little sense and ignore reality.

    Because I know that that law was not in effect in 1940, as some of my classmate in high school in 1939 were caught up in the draft, and their fathers were not!

    36 years was the cut-off in 1940!

    And the subject was in the 1940 census, not later years.

  251. avatar
    helen February 19, 2014 at 4:00 pm #

    In September 1939 they called up the reserves and the other boys in the ROTC and reserve were called into the service. My father was called up in the Navy and he was 60 years old in 1940

    But , hell, old minds make errors sometimes.

  252. avatar
    helen February 19, 2014 at 5:24 pm #

    the Harry Bounel that appears to be the right one.

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=054_1307947333

    Now, of course, this is just another source, but, of interest, he was born in Conneticut, and , according to this site,was a black man, that lived in the 1910 census and was 50 years old at that time, and would have been 76 when the SS came into existence.
    Whether the robinsons where the parents of Michelle, I do not know.

    But this may indeed by the Bounel in question. And may have lived in in Coneticut and gotten a ssn at that time.

    Heck , I don’t even know if the census was the right city.

    But, I do think that this is where the saga of Harrision J. Bounel came into existence.

    Especially if there not a lot of bounels in the country.

    Remember that the question realiy is , was there a Harrison J. Bounel ever?

  253. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 19, 2014 at 8:47 pm #

    You are making an absurd objection, that a document which is not an apostille is not in the form of an apostille. It’s just moving the goalposts again. I’m not going to engage in an irrelevant argument.

    helen: APOSTILLE

    Hawaii Birth and Marriage Certificates, and Divorce Decrees should be Certified Copies that display original signature (not stamped signature) from the State Registrar of the Department of Health.

    Now that would mean that the LFBC would not be acceptable, (the one under discussion at various times?

    Now I know it says “should” and not “shall”, but if you look at the site it makes a strong statment about it.

    I am very seldom wrong, but sometimes people disagree with the truth!

  254. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 19, 2014 at 8:51 pm #

    You seem to be trying to deliberately confuse the issue.

    The issue is not the person in the 1940 census, but the person that Orly Taitz alleged obtained a social-security number in 1977. Are you suggesting that this person existed in 1940 and stepped into another dimension to avoid the draft, only to return in 1977 to get a social-security number?

    helen: Because I know that that law was not in effect in 1940, as some of my classmate in high school in 1939 were caught up in the draft, and their fathers were not!

    36 years was the cut-off in 1940!

    And the subject was in the 1940 census, not later years.

  255. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 19, 2014 at 8:53 pm #

    The right one for what? To be born in 1860 get a social-security number from the 1977 series? I think not. Try to at least come up with a theory that is not facially impossible.

    helen: the Harry Bounel that appears to be the right one.

  256. avatar
    CarlOrcas February 19, 2014 at 9:05 pm #

    helen:
    In September 1939 they called up the reserves and the other boys in the ROTC and reserve were called into the service.My father was called up in the Navy and he was 60 years old in 1940

    But , hell, old minds make errors sometimes.

    How old are you, Helen?

  257. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater February 19, 2014 at 9:20 pm #

    CarlOrcas: How old are you, Helen?

    “Helen” is traderjack claims he’s in his 90s

  258. avatar
    CarlOrcas February 19, 2014 at 9:25 pm #

    helen: Now that would mean that the LFBC would not be acceptable, (the one under discussion at various times?

    Now I know it says “should” and not “shall”, but if you look at the site it makes a strong statment about it.

    I am very seldom wrong, but sometimes people disagree with the truth!

    Are you saying that an original registrar’s signature is required on all birth certificates?

  259. avatar
    CarlOrcas February 19, 2014 at 9:26 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: “Helen” is traderjack claims he’s in his 90s

    Yes, I know. Just curious what he/she will say.

  260. avatar
    Scribunda February 19, 2014 at 11:55 pm #

    helen: Because I know that that law was not in effect in 1940, as some of my classmate in high school in 1939 were caught up in the draft, and their fathers were not!

    36 years was the cut-off in 1940!

    And the subject was in the 1940 census, not later years.

    So, what, you are claiming he no longer existed after 1940 and thus would not have registered for the draft? Where did he go? He certainly did not go to war, according to the records. Given that the world was in turmoil and full of anti-Jewish sentiment and he was a poor fruit vendor, he did not go abroad. If he got a social security number in the 1970s, as Orly claimed, he certainly did not die.

    You may prefer to limit the discussion to 1940 since there is nothing about a Harry Bounel other than your error-filled census, but you cannot look at one year to try to determine whether someone existed and who they were.

    Your argument is, once again, absurd.

    And to the person arguing he was Harry Bormel married to Anna in Connecticut, please explain how Harry Bormel and Harry Bounel both appear in the 1940 census, living in different places.

    Obviously, you can accept that the spelling of Harry Bounel might be incorrect or you would not suggest he is Harry Bormel. Yet you cannot accept that the landlady might have also gotten the year of birth wrong, especially when there is proof someone named Harry Boymel of about the same age, of the same marital status (married, but not residing with his wife), with the same occupation, from the same region of the Russian empire was living at the same address in 1941.

    Do you realize how ridiculous that makes you sound? You sound like a flat Earther. Or maybe that is the point…you and Helen have no interest in the subject other than trying to look like idiots.

  261. avatar
    Rickey February 20, 2014 at 12:49 am #

    helen:
    the Harry Bounel that appears to be the right one.

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=054_1307947333

    Now, of course, this is just another source, but, of interest, he was born in Conneticut, and , according to this site,was a black man, that lived in the 1910 census and was 50 years old at that time, and would have been 76 when the SS came into existence.

    He would have been 80 when the 1940 census was done, and he would have been about 117 when Obama’s SSN was issued. How does that make him “the right one?”

    Whether the robinsons where the parents of Michelle, I do not know.

    Michelle Obama’s father was Fraser Robinson Iii, who was born in Chicago in 1935.

    But this may indeed by the Bounel in question.And may have lived in in Coneticut and gotten a ssn at that time.

    At what time? If that Bounel ever had a Social Security Number, it wasn’t the number which Obama has been using since he was 16 because that number was issued in 1977.

    Heck , I don’t even know if the census was the right city.

    Are you suggesting that census enumerators don’t know what city they are in when they do their work?

    Remember that the question realiy is , was there a Harrison J. Bounel ever?

    There is no record of him – ever.

  262. avatar
    Rickey February 20, 2014 at 1:05 am #

    helen: Because I know that that law was not in effect in 1940, as some of my classmate in high school in 1939 were caught up in the draft, and their fathers were not!

    36 years was the cut-off in 1940!

    And the subject was in the 1940 census, not later years.

    Try to wrap your mind around these indisputable facts.

    Harry Boymel arrived in the United States in 1910. He applied for a Social Security Number in 1941. He registered for the draft in 1942.

    There is no record of “Harry Bounel” or “Harrison Bounel” ever arriving in the United States. There is no record of a Social Security Number ever being issued to either name. There is no record of either name registering for the draft after the U.S. entered World War II. There is no record of “Harry Bounel” before 1940 and no record of him after 1940.

    The “Harry Bounel” listed in the 1940 census was actually Harry Boymel. There is no longer any doubt about that. .

  263. avatar
    aarrgghh February 20, 2014 at 1:09 am #

    i’m just wild about harry
    though harry’s never met me
    his id was stolen by barry
    a crime only birfers can see
    burma shave

  264. avatar
    RanTalbott February 20, 2014 at 3:13 am #

    Courtesy of the tweety feed: Orly has filed her response to the motion to dismiss in Taitz v Colvin. She may be geting tired: it’s only 20 pages long. Or maybe just otherwise occupied: the zibits include what appears to be a screenshot from a game of Space Invaders on an Atari 2600…

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/208027779/2014-02-19-ECF-31-Taitz-v-Colvin-Opposiiton-to-MtD-or-MSJ-and-MSJ-for-Plaintiff

    Oh, and if you missed the President’s Day sale on kitchen sinks at Lowe’s,I’m pretty sure there’s one in there somewhere.

  265. avatar
    The Magic M February 20, 2014 at 5:42 am #

    RanTalbott: Orly has filed her response to the motion to dismiss in Taitz v Colvin.

    Some observations:

    1. Much unlike a lawyer but more like a layman, Orly loves to regurgitate her entire claims in every filing (this time, thankfully, limited to a single “history of the case” page). I imagined it is because she uses her filings as propaganda tools on her website (much like Birther Report – or, previously, WND – keeps repeating the entire frittata of birther claims – “forged BC, forged SSN, two citizen parents, …” in every single article they write about eligibility).

    2. She makes another thinly veiled attempt at posting the unredacted SSN by stating how “xxx-xx-4425 was filed right after 042-68-4424″, page 4. I don’t know if the judge will let her get away with it.
    She actually repeats this two more times.

    3. The rest seems to be mostly “someone didn’t use the proper magic words in their answer” idiocy.

    4. She also asks the court to let her play AG again.

    5. Finally she recycles her “mysterious Fuddy death” claims, salted with some “adopted in Indonesia” stuff, to dispel any doubt that she may actually be a sane plaintiff.

    And as bonus, a funny reverse blooper – she writes “US Martial” when she means “US Marshal”. Usually, wingnuts get it wrong the other way around (writing “Marshal(l) Law” instead of “Martial Law”).

  266. avatar
    Kate February 20, 2014 at 11:28 am #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG:
    The hateful old bitch will probably keel over from the stress one of these days.
    She’s regularly going on about how this is all taking its toll on her.

    Taitz LIVES for all of this alleged “stress”! She has made this her sole existence for living. Without the hope of possibly reading her name on teh Google, she’d be unable to spin the idea that President Obama was quaking in his boots, with a suitcase packed and ready to leave the U.S. at a moment’s notice or being informed of the birfers imminent findings by his devoted staff, if he’s out of the country, so he can change his travel plans.

    Taitz will be lost without her daily goal, to seek attention for herself while attempting to take down the Obama “regime”.

  267. avatar
    Rickey February 20, 2014 at 11:44 am #

    The Magic M:
    4. She also asks the court to let her play AG again.

    I love the part where she claims that the defense did not object to her motion to have her “evidence” presented to a Federal Grand Jury, so it should be granted on Summary Judgment. She really is clueless.

  268. avatar
    helen February 20, 2014 at 1:59 pm #

    Rickey: There is no record of “Harry Bounel” or “Harrison Bounel” ever arriving in the United States. There is no record of a Social Security Number ever being issued to either name. There is no record of either name registering for the draft after the U.S. entered World War II. There is no record of “Harry Bounel” before 1940 and no record of him after 1940.

    You did read the live leak posling , and the census report shown, didn’t you?

    Born in 1860, that give you a clue as to why there are no arrival records, draft records, or anything else?

    The social security number referred to as Bounel was issued in 1975-76, and that Bounel would lhave been 115 years old, so it was either someone else , or Bounels son, daughter , or relation, that would have done that.

    And as the number was issued in Conntitcut, and that indicate the applicantt’s mailing address was in Conneticut, it raises questions about a 17 year old in Hawaii having a mailing address in Conneticut

  269. avatar
    chancery February 20, 2014 at 5:37 pm #

    Scribunda and Magic M, thanks for your comments on the name Baumol.

  270. avatar
    Rickey February 20, 2014 at 8:00 pm #

    helen: You did read the live leak posling , and the census report shown, didn’t you?

    Born in 1860, that give you a clue as to why there are no arrival records, draft records, or anything else?

    Precisely. If he was born in 1860, he couldn’t possibly be the person Orly is looking for. He couldn’t possibly be the person who was living in the Bronx in 1940. He couldn’t possibly have received a Social Security Number in 1977. So his existence in 1910 is totally irrelevant.

    The social security number referred to as Bounel was issued in 1975-76,and that Bounel would lhave been 115 years old, so it was either someone else , or Bounels son, daughter , or relation, that would have done that.

    Related? First of all, there is no record of anyone named “Bounel” getting a Social Security Number in the 1970s. Second, the “Bounel” in the 1910 census is said to have been half-black; the person whose name appears in the 1940 census was Russian. Where is the connection?

    And as the number was issued in Conntitcut, and that indicate the applicantt’s mailing address was in Conneticut, it raises questions about a 17 year old in Hawaii having a mailing address in Conneticut

    It raises no questions. The number wasn’t issued “in Connecticut.” And nobody has ever claimed that Obama had a mailing address in Connecticut.

  271. avatar
    Rickey February 20, 2014 at 8:33 pm #

    helen: You did read the live leak posling , and the census report shown, didn’t you?

    According to the website censusrecords.com, the Connecticut man in the 1910 census was named Harry Bonnel, not Harry Bounel:

    First Name: Harry S.
    Last Name: Bonnel
    Birth Place: Connecticut
    Birth Year: 1860
    Age: 50
    Census Year: 1910
    State: Connecticut
    County: New Haven
    City/Township: New Haven Ward 9

  272. avatar
    RanTalbott February 20, 2014 at 8:39 pm #

    helen: You did read the live leak posling , and the census report shown, didn’t you?

    Yes, and there’s no “Harry Bounel” in that census report.

    If you actually read it, instead of passively waiting for it to scroll to The Big Reveal™, you’ll see names and words in which the census taker wrote a lowercase “u”, and they don’t match what was written in what you’re claiming is “Bounel”. You can see in the word “Roomer” next to the name how he wrote an “m”, and it does match the letter following the “o”. As do other “n”s on the page. Which is why it’s no coincidence that two of the 3 possibilities for the name suggested by ancestry.com are “Bonnel”.

    Note also that they posed the question of whether the Robinsons named in that report are related to Michelle, but decided to end their ancestry.com session without trying to find out. Or, more likely, they didn’t, and found out there was no relationship.

    Your “live leak” has flooded your hold and sunk your boat.

  273. avatar
    RanTalbott February 20, 2014 at 8:48 pm #

    Rickey: I love the part where she claims that the defense did not object to her motion to have her “evidence” presented to a Federal Grand Jury, so it should be granted on Summary Judgment.

    I think that’s a swell idea: after listening to tragic tales of con men swindling families out of house and home, and viewing grisly pictures of people mobsters tortured to death, a grand jury is entitled to a little comic relief.