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Obot Wars Episode VII: A New Hope

ObotWarsDespite the terror inspired by Emperor Zullo and Darth Gallups1, the Universe-shattering prime weapon of the birther Death Star was not finished on schedule. (In the movie the Emperor and Darth Vader had minions to do their work, but the Cold Case Posse is just the one guy.)  Sheriff Jabba has also been engaged in his own administrative problems over the licensing of some of his land speeders. Boba Volin has gotten nothing but yawns from Congress with his Imperial Toy Sheriff’s Kit™.

I invoke a science fantasy movie image because someone must truly be willing to believe in fantasy to continue to support Zullo as the “March reveal” becomes the midterm election reveal, another in a long line of excuses for doing nothing.

I suppose some might find the latest delay from Zullo as absurd and laughable, like the “Rocky 5,000” sequel gag in Spaceballs. I find his lack of creativity pathetic. I mean, can someone explain to me how some alleged investigation into something unrelated prevents release of the alleged evidence on the birth certificate issue from being presented? Maybe they can’t believe what they are finding.

Only the hardcore birther fans are looking forward to the next publicity event for the movie that’s never coming out.


1After some consideration, I think perhaps the better alignment of dark-side characters is Emperor Corsi and Darth Zullo with some more pawn-like character for Gallups.

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456 Responses to Obot Wars Episode VII: A New Hope

  1. avatar
    alg April 9, 2014 at 8:11 am #

    Turn to the dark side Doc Lietalker…..turn to the dark side. :-)

  2. avatar
    Keith April 9, 2014 at 8:23 am #

    Some sequels owe their existence to fandom demands. Just sayin…

  3. avatar
    The Magic M April 9, 2014 at 8:44 am #

    So… you’re using the number of the 7th Star Wars movie with the tag line of the 4th and the plot of the 6th (in chronological order of the fictional movie timeline)? That’s like Obi Wan saying “Live long and prosper” or Obama’s “Jedi mind-meld”. Or birthers saying “Obama was born in Kenya as the son of Frank Marshall Davis and Malcolm X”. :-P

  4. avatar
    Bovril April 9, 2014 at 9:03 am #

    Even the quotes from SW seem appropos…

    “This will be a day long remembered. It has seen the end of Obama (Kenobi), and will soon see the end of the rebellion.”

    “I find your lack of faith disturbing.”

    “Who’s the more foolish; the fool, or the fool who follows him?”

    “You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. …We must be cautious.”

    “So what I told you was true… from a certain point of view.”

    “IT’S A TRAP.”

    “Strike me down, and I will become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.”

    “…It’s not fair! They promised me they fixed it! It’s not my fault!”

    “You are a member of the rebel alliance, and a traitor.”

    “I assure you, Lord Vader. My men are working as fast as they can.”

    “Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen.”

    “You will find that it is you who are mistaken… about a great many things.”

    “We have — ungh! — powerful friends. You’re going to regret this.”

    And many more…. 8-)

  5. avatar
    Arthur April 9, 2014 at 9:09 am #

    Bovril: “I find your lack of faith disturbing.”

    This expression is a daily sentiment at B.R.

  6. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 10:24 am #

    Name one vital historical development in the world historically that met an exact deadline to the day?

  7. avatar
    bgansel9 April 9, 2014 at 10:25 am #

    I read yesterday that Obama was going to be out of office by last night. I guess that didn’t happen, huh? :P

  8. avatar
    Jim April 9, 2014 at 10:31 am #

    Darth Zullo says: “May the Farce be with you.”

  9. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 10:43 am #

    June 6, 1944

    July 20, 1969

    I can name a few hundred more, but there’s twice what you asked for.

  10. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 10:48 am #

    bgansel9:
    I read yesterday that Obama was going to be out of office by last night. I guess that didn’t happen, huh?

    Exactly where did you read that? Have a link?

  11. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 9, 2014 at 11:00 am #

    Bovril: “Who’s the more foolish; the fool, or the fool who follows him?”

    I like this one.

  12. avatar
    Atticus Finch April 9, 2014 at 11:03 am #

    alg:
    Turn to the dark side Doc Lietalker…..turn to the dark side.

    Why? Do you have cookies?

  13. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 9, 2014 at 11:03 am #

    William:
    Name one vital historical development in the world historically that met an exact deadline to the day?

    How much money have you donated to the Cold Case Posse, William?

  14. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 11:04 am #

    Would it be improper to speculate that another similarity would be a great deal of sister-kissing among the Birferati?

  15. avatar
    The Magic M April 9, 2014 at 11:04 am #

    Only the hardcore birther fans are looking forward to the next publicity event for the movie that’s never coming out.

    It seems their regular OMG moments have now been completely virtualized. Probably an inevitable result of having been disappointed so often. You can’t really be disappointed by something that is supposed to happen at an unspecified point in time.
    (Even I sometimes forget it’s already been 1.5 years since Obama was re-elected. I sure hope he runs for a third, fourth and fifth term, otherwise I won’t know what to do with my time after January 2017.)

    But it seems the BR crowd is shrinking, given that most who voiced their disappointment over Zullo have been labelled “Obots” and pretty much alienated or banned.

  16. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 11:09 am #

    CarlOrcas,

    I believe you are referring to this in history with Obama.

    “A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The traitor is the plague.”

    Marcus Tullius – 106 BC – 43 B.C.

    Obama: Don’t tell me I don’t have connections to Selma Alabama. Its where his parents met and Baby Obama was thus born from their meeting during the march, according to Obama.

  17. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 11:15 am #

    None.

  18. avatar
    Woodrowfan April 9, 2014 at 11:16 am #

    I read yesterday that Obama was going to be out of office by last night. I guess that didn’t happen, huh? :P

    No, it’s true. after work, he left his office………he went back to the living quarters, had dinner with his wife and kids. went to bed. then this am he went back to work! And, despite the sick fantasies of William and his cronies, he’ll be President until January 2017. :P

  19. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 9, 2014 at 11:17 am #

    William: I believe you are referring to this in history with Obama.

    No. I’m referring to birthers and, in particular, those who put their faith in Mike Zullo and any nonsense they read on the internet.

  20. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 11:18 am #

    CarlOrcas: How much money have you donated to the Cold Case Posse, William?

    I haven’t donated a single penny to any investigation, period. I do not believe in donations outside what our U.S. DOJ should conduct, minus our taxpayers dollars already paying for.

  21. avatar
    Woodrowfan April 9, 2014 at 11:18 am #

    Bonsall Obot:
    June 6, 1944

    July 20, 1969

    I can name a few hundred more, but there’s twice what you asked for.

    I was thinking the same thing. He really thinks no big event ever met a deadline??

  22. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 9, 2014 at 11:20 am #

    William: I haven’t donated a single penny to any investigation, period.I do not believe in donations outside what our U.S. DOJ should conduct, minus our taxpayers dollars already paying for.

    That doesn’t make any sense.

  23. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 11:24 am #

    Woodrowfan: I was thinking the same thing.He really thinks no big event ever met a deadline??

    Meh. He’s just throwing out off-topic red herrings, so who knows what, if anything, he “thinks?”

    At least this time he’s using a non-ironic name and didn’t start with insults.

  24. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 11:24 am #

    Again,

    I believe in full investigations of anyone pertaining to questionable background other than qualitative (he/she said) regardless of party lines. That is a difficult pill for you or others to swallow, but I can promise you this; it will not be shocking to most, but will be to your defense.

  25. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 11:32 am #

    CarlOrcas: That doesn’t make any sense.

    Which part doesn’t make sense? That I don’t believe in donating money for something that should be legally investigated? Or I didn’t give them money personally?

    What doesn’t make sense is that you believe this is something everyone is doing.

  26. avatar
    truxton spangler April 9, 2014 at 11:33 am #

    “Maybe they can’t believe what they are finding. ”

    :)

    I really wish someone would press The Donald to explain what he meant by that, and what his investigators found.

    My guess is that they found how easy it is to get birthers to pay for a free Hawaiian vacation.

  27. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 11:34 am #

    Eric Holder is currently being investigated as we speak,

    But I am not sending my private hard eared donation money for that Congressional investigation.

  28. avatar
    American Mzungu April 9, 2014 at 11:34 am #

    William: Again,

    I believe in full investigations of anyone pertaining to questionable background other than qualitative (he/she said) regardless of party lines. That is a difficult pill for you or others to swallow, but I can promise you this; it will not be shocking to most, but will be to your defense.

    That doesn’t make sense either

  29. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 11:37 am #

    William:
    … but will be to your defense.

    Ooooooh, threaty!

    Why do Birfoons persist in the fantasy that their adversaries will somehow be punished? Who are they trying to convince?

  30. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 11:38 am #

    William:

    Eric Holder is currently being investigated as we speak,

    (citation needed)

  31. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 11:40 am #

    Bonsall Obot: Meh. He’s just throwing out off-topic red herrings, so who knows what, if anything, he “thinks?”

    At least this time he’s using a non-ironic name and didn’t start with insults.

    Good try,

    But first time poster here. Guess again.

  32. avatar
    gorefan April 9, 2014 at 11:42 am #

    William: Obama: Don’t tell me I don’t have connections to Selma Alabama. Its where his parents met and Baby Obama was thus born from their meeting during the march, according to Obama.

    You really thought he was speaking literally?

  33. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 11:44 am #

    American Mzungu: That doesn’t make sense either

    Explain how that doesn’t make sense?

    Verifying facts In any event, doesn’t make sense to you.

  34. avatar
    Rickey April 9, 2014 at 11:47 am #

    William:
    Name one vital historical development in the world historically that met an exact deadline to the day?

    December 7,1941 comes to mind. Maybe the Japanese could teach Zullo a thing or two about meeting a deadline.

  35. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 11:51 am #

    gorefan: You really thought he was speaking literally?

    What do you think he was saying in a lie? Of course I and the rest of the world knows that wasn’t true, and so do you. So how many lies of his life are you willing to defend as some partially true, some true, some lies. And those that investigate, you then somehow question reasons why for verification?

  36. avatar
    American Mzungu April 9, 2014 at 11:52 am #

    William: Explain how that doesn’t make sense?

    Verifying facts In any event, doesn’t make sense to you.

    If you would try rephrasing and elaborating on the post that did not make sense to me, I would be very appreciative. Thank you.

  37. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 9, 2014 at 11:53 am #

    William: I believe in full investigations of anyone pertaining to questionable background other than qualitative (he/she said) regardless of party lines. That is a difficult pill for you or others to swallow, but I can promise you this; it will not be shocking to most, but will be to your defense.

    My “defense”? What do you mean by that?

    And what authority do you see for the “DOJ” to investigate candidates with “questionable background”? How do you define “questionable background” and what do you think could/would/should come of any such investigation?

  38. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 11:54 am #

    Rickey: December 7,1941 comes to mind. Maybe the Japanese could teach Zullo a thing or two about meeting a deadline.

    If you read the history on that attack, the date and time was offset due pending presidential responses or request as well as a host of many other factors, including weather.

    Try again.

  39. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 9, 2014 at 11:56 am #

    William: Verifying facts In any event, doesn’t make sense to you.

    What “facts” do you want verified, William?

  40. avatar
    Rickey April 9, 2014 at 12:02 pm #

    William:

    Obama:Don’t tell me I don’t have connections to Selma Alabama.Its where his parents met and Baby Obama was thus born from their meeting during the march, according to Obama.

    You need to do a better job of checking your “facts.” Obama never said that his parents were at Selma, much less that they met there.

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/saywhat.asp

  41. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG April 9, 2014 at 12:03 pm #

    William:
    Again,

    I believe in full investigations of anyone pertaining to questionable background other than qualitative (he/she said) regardless of party lines. That is a difficult pill for you or others to swallow, but I can promise you this; it will not be shocking to most, but will be to your defense.

    Defense from what? You birthers?
    A stuffed animal has more bite than you guys.

  42. avatar
    Rickey April 9, 2014 at 12:04 pm #

    CarlOrcas: What “facts” do you want verified, William?

    He could start by verifying his own “facts” about what Obama said about Selma.

  43. avatar
    Bovril April 9, 2014 at 12:07 pm #

    Err…..The Japanes did not have a “President” and the Japanese government wasn’t waiting on any responses from the US President so…..no “offset due pending presidential responses or request ”

    There was during the first two weeks of November a stance taken by the Japanese that if the US acceded to the Japanese expansion into SE Asia they MIGHT NOT attack Pearl Habor in December

    That did not affect the submarines being dispatched Nov 16 and the main fleet dispatch Nov 26

    The weather did not affect the fleet, submarines or planes, the operation kicked off on time.

  44. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 12:12 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Defense from what? You birthers?
    A stuffed animal has more bite than you guys.

    Recent,

    One person ran for County office in my area, a well known multi-millionaire housing construction owner. However, it was also well known that he did not live in this State, but only stayed from time-to-time. Accordance with State laws, he must be a permanent resident of at least 12 months. The local citizens contested. He and his attorneys fought to seal his residential records (as he had several) in court. They lost, and his name withdrawn from the ballot.

    Don’t think it doesn’t happen.

  45. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 12:14 pm #

    Bovril:
    Err…..The Japanes did not have a “President”and the Japanese government wasn’t waiting on any responses from the US President so…..no “offset due pending presidential responses or request ”

    There was during the first two weeks of November a stance taken by the Japanese that if the US acceded to the Japanese expansion into SE Asia they MIGHT NOT attack Pearl Habor in December

    That did not affect the submarines being dispatched Nov 16 and the main fleet dispatch Nov 26

    The weather did not affect the fleet, submarines or planes, the operation kicked off on time.

    Now I am humored.

  46. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 12:20 pm #

    So,

    Do I need to do the honor of informing Borvil, whereby I never said that Japan had a “President” in any of my comments, or do you?

    Also, do I need to inform Borvil, or you, that Japan was in fact waiting for a presidential response to japan prior to the war?

    Both of which he/she claims is untrue.

  47. avatar
    Rickey April 9, 2014 at 12:21 pm #

    William: If you read the history on that attack, the date and time was offset due pending presidential responses or request as well as a host of many other factors, including weather.

    Try again.

    You need to brush up on your history. Admiral Yamamoto set December 7 as the attack date on November 7. December 7 was chosen because Sunday was the day of the week when the most U.S. ships were in port. See “The Rising Sun’ by John Toland, p. 169.

    December 7 was of course a tentative date, as it could have been delayed in the event of bad weather. But the date was chosen a month before the attack occurred. And I can assure you that the Japanese has many more logistical issues to face than Mike Zullo.

  48. avatar
    American Mzungu April 9, 2014 at 12:24 pm #

    In his article, Doc said, “I mean, can someone explain to me how some alleged investigation into something unrelated prevents release of the alleged evidence on the birth certificate issue from being presented? ”

    William, can you explain?

  49. avatar
    Smirk4Food April 9, 2014 at 12:24 pm #

    I wonder what will come first: Zullo’s earth-shattering revelations, or a GOP alternative to Obamacare.

  50. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 12:28 pm #

    Rickey: You need to do a better job of checking your “facts.” Obama never said that his parents were at Selma, much less that they met there.

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/saywhat.asp

    The unedited video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdYByptC8mY

  51. avatar
    bob April 9, 2014 at 12:29 pm #

    William,

    Just because an ankle-biter “just asks a question” does not mean further investigation is warranted.

    What evidence have you seen so far that might make you question President Obama’s natural-born citizenship?

  52. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 12:29 pm #

    Smirk4Food:
    I wonder what will come first: Zullo’s earth-shattering revelations, or a GOP alternative to Obamacare.

    The first one you mentioned.

  53. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 12:31 pm #

    So in just a few hours, this one displays an appalling lack of historical knowledge, a few red herrings, some straw man arguments, at least two outright lies and a refusal to answer direct questions or provide any evidence for his various flavors of bullturds.

    This one’s not too bright. He does spell better than the average Birfoon, I’ll give him that.

    Better trolls, please.

  54. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 12:32 pm #

    bob:
    William,

    Just because an ankle-biter “just asks a question” does not mean further investigation is warranted.

    What evidence have you seen so far that might make you question President Obama’s natural-born citizenship?

    Bob,

    I does when it pertains to questions relative to our elective government officials in my opinion, regardless of party.

    What I do know at this time, is shocking. And it’s only a portion.

  55. avatar
    Rickey April 9, 2014 at 12:33 pm #

    William: The unedited video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdYByptC8mY

    And where in that speech does he say that his parents were in Selma? The answer is that he doesn’t say it.

  56. avatar
    Rickey April 9, 2014 at 12:38 pm #

    William: Bob,

    What I do know at this time, is shocking.And it’s only a portion.

    Yes, but is it universe-shattering?

  57. avatar
    JPotter April 9, 2014 at 12:40 pm #

    Bonsall Obot: July 20, 1969

    That one actually came in more than 5 months before the deadline. And that was to go to the freakin’ moon!

  58. avatar
    bob April 9, 2014 at 12:40 pm #

    William: Bob,

    I does when it pertains to questions relative to our elective government officials in my opinion, regardless of party.

    Your opinion is loverly; in the real world, however, officials (regardless of party) routinely blow off ankle-biters.

    What I do know at this time, is shocking.And it’s only a portion.

    Care to share?

    Again, what evidence have you seen so far that might make you question President Obama’s natural-born citizenship?

  59. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 9, 2014 at 12:46 pm #

    William: Don’t think it doesn’t happen.

    No one said it doesn’t happen.

    Now what does this case have to do with President Obama?

  60. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 12:47 pm #

    Rickey: You need to brush up on your history. Admiral Yamamoto set December 7 as the attack date on November 7. December 7 was chosen because Sunday was the day of the week when the most U.S. ships were in port. See “The Rising Sun’ by John Toland, p. 169.

    December 7 was of course a tentative date, as it could have been delayed in the event of bad weather. But the date was chosen a month before the attack occurred. And I can assure you that the Japanese has many more logistical issues to face than Mike Zullo.

    Point proven,

    There was never an exact date, only a calculated estimation of a well plan date. I don’t need to be brushed up on that date and how it came to be, as I am fully aware that many different days, months, hours, didn’t play out in the military strategy over the timeline as first thought.

    For anyone to claim, that it all does, is simply silly. And that was my point.

  61. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 12:53 pm #

    William:

    For anyone to claim, that it all does, is simply silly.And that was my point.

    And that’s another straw man, since no one has claimed that. The claim is that Zullo never meets a deadline to release information because he has no information. He’s a charlatan, and Birfoons are his marks.

  62. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 9, 2014 at 12:55 pm #

    William: The first one you mentioned.

    When, William?

  63. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 12:59 pm #

    Now,

    You should have enough to argue about of reasons why Obama’s records should never be released. If you claim they have been, you are lying.

  64. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 1:03 pm #

    Bonsell,

    you obviously do not understand a strawman argument.

  65. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 9, 2014 at 1:04 pm #

    William:
    Now,

    You should have enough to argue about of reasons why Obama’s records should never be released.If you claim they have been, you are lying.

    What “records” are you talking about, William?

  66. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 1:05 pm #

    Of course I do. I just explained yours. Instead of arguing the actual facts, you set up a false position you can easily knock down.

  67. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 9, 2014 at 1:15 pm #

    William:
    Bonsell,

    you obviously do not understand a strawman argument.

    What do you think a “strawman argument” is, William?

  68. avatar
    Frito Bandito April 9, 2014 at 1:16 pm #

    William, after you take an intellectual beating here, please go back to the Barfer Report and let those mendicants know we are laughing at their paranoia and stupidity.

    I would let them know that myself, but the Administrative cowards at Buffoon Report keep banning and blocking me or remove any comments I make that don’t demean President Obama.

    Mike Volin is yellow-bellied coward as is all the staff at Bumblers Report. Make sure you tell them that for me OK?

  69. avatar
    Curious George April 9, 2014 at 1:19 pm #

    “William
    April 9, 2014
    Name one vital historical development in the world historically that met an exact deadline to the day?”

    The state of Hawaii (part of the world) providing a certified Verification of Birth for Barack Obama to the Arizona (also part of the world) Secretary of State, Ken Bennett, verifying all of the vital information contained on the Obama birth certificate, allowing Secretary Bennett to place President Obama on the 2012, Arizona general election ballot, to the day. (Historically speaking.)

  70. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 1:26 pm #

    American Mzungu:
    In his article, Doc said, “I mean, can someone explain to me how some alleged investigation into something unrelated prevents release of the alleged evidence on the birth certificate issue from being presented? ”

    William, can you explain?

    Honestly,

    I have not reviewed Doc’s article that you are referring to, but will.

  71. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 1:28 pm #

    Curious George:
    “William
    April 9, 2014
    Name one vital historical development in the world historically that met an exact deadline to the day?”

    The state of Hawaii (part of the world) providing a certified Verification of Birth for Barack Obama to the Arizona (also part of the world) Secretary of State, Ken Bennett, verifying all of the vital information contained on the Obama birth certificate, allowing Secretary Bennett to place President Obama on the 2012, Arizona general election ballot, to the day. (Historically speaking.)

    No that is funny…

    And you have the document in your hands right? Same as you have mine.

  72. avatar
    bob April 9, 2014 at 1:28 pm #

    William:
    You should have enough to argue about of reasons why Obama’s records should never be released.

    Because you think that’s a good idea? But you can’t cite any evidence to demonstrate there are any legitimate questions about President Obama’s natural-born citizenship.

  73. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 1:36 pm #

    William: Honestly,

    I have not reviewed Doc’s article that you are referring to, but will.

    I would add though, how can anyone not connected to an investigation, criminal or otherwise, claim it’s only alleged? And if only alleged, then speculate that it relates to a Birth Certificate?

    Seems like a lot of “guessing’ to me… And why would guessing be necessary rather than waiting for results that would prove a theory that you are correct? Seems to me, you should be cheering.

  74. avatar
    Curious George April 9, 2014 at 1:37 pm #

    “No(sic) that is funny…

    And you have the document in your hands right?”

    Yes, as a matter of fact I have a photocopy of the same document that proved to Secretary Bennett that Barack Obama was indeed born in the United States. A similar Verification of Birth was also sent to the states of Mississippi and Kansas.

    Thanks for asking William.

  75. avatar
    OllieOxenFree April 9, 2014 at 1:37 pm #

    William: You should have enough to argue about of reasons why Obama’s records should never be released. If you claim they have been, you are lying.

    The only record that qualifies Obama for the Presidency is his birth certificate, and he has already produced two, to the satisfaction of the majority of the United States, and three separate verifications confirming the validity of those birth certificates to those who have questioned further. He is under no obligation to release any other records.

  76. avatar
    gorefan April 9, 2014 at 1:41 pm #

    William: The unedited video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdYByptC8mY

    Your ignorance doesn’t make something a lie.

    He is aggregating a number of events and not in any chronological order (Bobby Kennedy’s ripple of hope speech – 1966; bus boycott – 1950s, Pullman porter strike – 1930s; Selma March – 1965) to show the impact of the civil rights movement on America.

  77. avatar
    Rickey April 9, 2014 at 1:41 pm #

    William: Point proven,

    There was never an exact date, only a calculated estimation of a well plan date.I don’t need to be brushed up on that date and how it came to be, as I am fully aware that many different days, months, hours, didn’t play out in the military strategy over the timeline as first thought.

    For anyone to claim, that it all does, is simply silly.And that was my point.

    Please, now you are parsing words.

    The attack was always intended to be made on December 7. It was “tentative” only in the sense that it would have been postponed if the weather had made the attack on the 7th impossible. It was never going to be before December 7, and the Japanese did not want to delay it because they wanted the attack to take place on Sunday. It went off exactly as planned, on the date it was planned for.

    Your analogy to Zullo fails in any event. With Zullo we’re not talking about a delay of a few days.

    Mike Zullo, January 2013: “The evidence that we have acquired — new-found evidence that we have never made public at any point in time, and we are not going to make public until we have the right opportunity — will convince even the greatest skeptic that this document is 100 percent a forgery.”

    15 months later and we are still waiting for Zullo to find “the right opportunity.”

  78. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 1:44 pm #

    bob: Because you think that’s a good idea?But you can’t cite any evidence to demonstrate there are any legitimate questions about President Obama’s natural-born citizenship.

    Why wouldn’t I think as an American Citizen that any or all elected officials be fully vetted with background checks and the reinforcement of hard documents to prove it?

  79. avatar
    Rickey April 9, 2014 at 1:44 pm #

    William: Seems to me, you should be cheering.

    We do a lot of cheering around here – every time a birther lawsuit fails. And every time Zullo lets another deadline pass without revealing his “universe-shattering” evidence.

  80. avatar
    Rickey April 9, 2014 at 1:48 pm #

    William: Why wouldn’t I think as an American Citizen that any or all elected officials be fully vetted with background checks and the reinforcement of hard documents to prove it?

    Did you demand to see Mitt Romney’s birth certificate? Have you seen it?

    Where in the Constitution does it say that a President has to be “fully vetted” with background checks?

  81. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 9, 2014 at 1:52 pm #

    William: No that is funny…

    And you have the document in your hands right?

    So…..if someone provided you with an original certified copy of the President’s birth certificate (like the one shown to the press at the White House) would that satisfy you?

  82. avatar
    OllieOxenFree April 9, 2014 at 1:52 pm #

    William: Why wouldn’t I think as an American Citizen that any or all elected officials be fully vetted with background checks and the reinforcement of hard documents to prove it?

    So, what other candidates have you demanded background checks and hard documented proof of who they are?

    Please provide quotes from previous demands you have made of other candidates. You can start with the previous Presidential election and any demands that you made of GoP candidates who ran in 2012.

  83. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 9, 2014 at 1:54 pm #

    William: Why wouldn’t I think as an American Citizen that any or all elected officials be fully vetted with background checks and the reinforcement of hard documents to prove it?

    Outline for us what a full vetting would entail to satisfy you. What “hard documents” do you want to see?

  84. avatar
    Thinker April 9, 2014 at 1:56 pm #

    I don’t think the point of Doc’s article is that the Cold Case Posse did not produce the evidence they had been promising in March. The point is that Zullo and his sidekicks–Gallups, Gillar, Corsi, and others–have been saying for over two years that they have secret evidence that will blow this whole birther thing wide open. In their first news conference (March 1, 2012), they presented stuff that was already public. The main finding of their second news conference (held July 17, 2012) was a blatant lie that had been exposed months earlier. And there has been nothing new since then despite their many, many promises.

    Promising big things and delivering nothing is a feature of birtherism. Orly Taitz, WND, Donald Trump, Larry Klayman, and many others have been doing it for over 5 years. People who still believe the promises are reality-challenged. I believe that is the point of Doc’s article.

  85. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 1:59 pm #

    Rickey: Please, now you are parsing words.

    The attack was always intended to be made on December 7. It was “tentative” only in the sense that it would have been postponed if the weather had made the attack on the 7th impossible. It was never going to be before December 7, and the Japanese did not want to delay it because they wanted the attack to take place on Sunday. It went off exactly as planned, on the date it was planned for.

    Your analogy to Zullo fails in any event. With Zullo we’re not talking about a delay of a few days.

    Mike Zullo, January 2013: “The evidence that we have acquired — new-found evidence that we have never made public at any point in time, and we are not going to make public until we have the right opportunity — will convince even the greatest skeptic that this document is 100 percent a forgery.”

    15 months later and we are still waiting for Zullo to find “the right opportunity.”

    On the Contrary,

    Just like the Sheriff Dept. and investigation, no “Exact” date has been given. I asked for one example in history, and given Pearl Harbor, as the replication of an exact plan thought out for over 1 year, and every date, to the day, played out in the strategy.

    There is no such thing with strategy, neither with your example with the bombing of Pearl Harbor attacks. There were many over the upcoming months of strategy changes that ultimately led up to the decisions of best time of releasing their strength, including after their invasion of Manchuria (seems a bit odd). But nevertheless, It wasn’t some backyard decision that 2 years earlier they said “hey, lets bomb them on this day, this year, this time in the morning’..

    So many other variables played into that factor, including political.

  86. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 1:59 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Outline for us what a full vetting would entail to satisfy you. What “hard documents” do you want to see?

    Further, what relevant probitive value would they have in answering any relevant questions that have already been answered by the documents already released?

    (To help you and save you time: only questions about the President’s age, citizenship and length or residence are relevant, according to the Constitution (the real one, not the imaginary Birfer one,) and all those questions were answered long ago.)

  87. avatar
    Daniel April 9, 2014 at 2:04 pm #

    William:
    Name one vital historical development in the world historically that met an exact deadline to the day?

    The Big Bang

  88. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 2:07 pm #

    Don’t get me wrong,

    You have some military officers in history here that can prove me wrong, and declare yes, Japan, 2 years earlier laid out an exact plan in politics, military, exact dates, perfect strategy, month by month, day by day, hour by hour, and never once wavered from it.

    That is not parsing words, but it is the comparison you gave me.

  89. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 2:09 pm #

    Daniel: The Big Bang

    And what year was that?

  90. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 2:12 pm #

    Note how today’s Birfer is ahistorically dissecting the Pearl Harbor example, while ignoring the D-Day and moon landing examples given. This, all in response to his very first red herring argument, in his very first reply.

  91. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 9, 2014 at 2:14 pm #

    Daniel: The Big Bang

    I was going to bring up Genesis but decided William wouldn’t like that one either since we don’t have a pre-event schedule to compare it against.

  92. avatar
    bob April 9, 2014 at 2:15 pm #

    William,

    Are you the same person who regularly posts at birtherreport.com as “William”?

  93. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 2:20 pm #

    Bonsall Obot:
    Note how today’s Birfer is ahistorically dissecting the Pearl Harbor example, while ignoring the D-Day and moon landing examples given. This, all in response to his very first red herring argument, in his very first reply.

    Did I miss your D-Day examples and Moon Landing?

    My apology,

    I scrolled back and still don’t see your examples of them. Perhaps they are on hold pending?

  94. avatar
    OllieOxenFree April 9, 2014 at 2:21 pm #

    bob: Are you the same person who regularly posts at birtherreport.com as “William”?

    He uses the same avatar there, so I am going to go out on a limb and say, “yes.” It is the same person.

  95. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 2:22 pm #

    bob:
    William,

    Are you the same person who regularly posts at birtherreport.com as “William”?

    Are you the same Obot that goes on additional websites pretending to be someone else with the same I.P.?

  96. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 2:22 pm #

    They were posted less than 20 minutes after you asked.

  97. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 2:23 pm #

    OllieOxenFree: He uses the same avatar there, so I am going to go out on a limb and say, “yes.” It is the same person.

    Of course it is me.

  98. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 9, 2014 at 2:23 pm #

    William: Just like the Sheriff Dept. and investigation, no “Exact” date has been given.

    So….how long are you willing to wait for the “Sheriff Dept.” (sic) to get to the point?

  99. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 2:26 pm #

    Took you that long to figure it out with the same avatar?

    I know when Doc. posts, and at least he doesn’t hide.

  100. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG April 9, 2014 at 2:32 pm #

    Wonder how long its gonna take William to get the hint that no one here is buying what he has to sell.

    Whatever “technicalities” you can muster don’t mean a thing, William. The Full Faith and Credit Clause of the United States Constitution means that Hawaii’s word is good enough for the other 49 states. But DO feel free to continue to wait out the remainder of Obama’s second term worrying yourself into poorer mental health, and making empty threats that Zullo won’t be backing up, ever. Maybe you can coddle yourself to Falcon’s bosom, listening to the sounds of his soothing anti-American sentiments.

  101. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 2:35 pm #

    CarlOrcas: So….how long are you willing to wait for the “Sheriff Dept.” (sic) to get to the point?

    I can tell you this,

    With what I do know, and it’s very little at this time, your theories are blown thus far. With the release of hard documented information timeline, is coming very soon, and that doesn’t mean many months or years as you have predicted. Not going to happen. This is not about money, it’s about record exposure and facts.

    You should be cheering, verifying all the claims (without physical proof) that you finally have the documents to back up you claims.

    Salute…..

  102. avatar
    bob April 9, 2014 at 2:37 pm #

    William: Are you the same Obot that goes on additional websites pretending to be someone else with the same I.P.?

    No. Any other when-did-you-stop-beating-your-wife questions?

    For the third time: What evidence demonstrates there are legitimate questions about President Obama’s natural-born citizenship?

    With what I do know, and it’s very little at this time, your theories are blown thus far.

    What do you know?

  103. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 2:39 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG:
    Wonder how long its gonna take William to get the hint that no one here is buying what he has to sell.

    Whatever “technicalities” you can muster don’t mean a thing, William. The Full Faith and Credit Clause of the United States Constitution means that Hawaii’s word is good enough for the other 49 states.But DO feel free to continue to wait out the remainder of Obama’s second term worrying yourself into poorer mental health, and making empty threats that Zullo won’t be backing up, ever.

    Hearsay doesn’t mean anything other than in your world when you don’t have the hard documented facts to back verbal claims of political officials. At that point, the full faith clause lost all value.

  104. avatar
    Sef April 9, 2014 at 2:45 pm #

    William: With what I do know, and it’s very little at this time, your theories are blown thus far.

    No one’s swallowing your theories, William.

  105. avatar
    Crustacean April 9, 2014 at 2:45 pm #

    I’m sorry, but launching threads into a hopelessly off-topic orbit is my job. It’s a union job, so I can’t allow y’all to take it over, m’kay?

    William, what I’d like to know is this: what is it about Mike Zullo that makes you believe he has the goods? Do you know him personally? If someone lies to you 99 times, do you just figure they’re due or something?

    William: Did I miss your D-Day examples and Moon Landing?
    My apology,
    I scrolled back and still don’t see your examples of them. Perhaps they are on hold pending?

  106. avatar
    bob April 9, 2014 at 2:46 pm #

    William: Hearsay doesn’t mean anything other than in your world when you don’t have the hard documented facts to back verbal claims of political officials.At that point, the full faith clause lost all value.

    The State of Hawaii has repeatedly and expressly said that President Obama was born in Hawaii. And has done so in a manner consistent with the Full Faith and Credit clause of the U.S. Constitution.

    Speaking of hearsay: Zullo is nothing but.

  107. avatar
    Arthur April 9, 2014 at 2:49 pm #

    It is apparent to anyone familiar with the history of WWII that the appropriate historical analogy to the CCP isn’t Pearl Harbor, it’s Operation Sea Lion.

  108. avatar
    Bob April 9, 2014 at 2:49 pm #

    William: I can tell you this,

    With what I do know . . .

    Did “Ukele” contact you? Or maybe you’ve been talking to the Ayer’s family’s neighbor’s mailman.

  109. avatar
    gorefan April 9, 2014 at 2:55 pm #

    William: Hearsay doesn’t mean anything other than in your world when you don’t have the hard documented facts to back verbal claims of political officials.At that point, the full faith clause lost all value.

    But hearsay is everything in your world since you don’t have hard evidence to back verbal claims of used car salesmen.

    Do you know if the “VIPs with perfect standing” will be at the press conference? LOL

  110. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 9, 2014 at 2:55 pm #

    William: I can tell you this,

    With what I do know, and it’s very little at this time, your theories are blown thus far.

    Hmm. What exactly are my “theories” and how have they been blown?

    William: With the release of hard documented information timeline, is coming very soon, and that doesn’t mean many months or years as you have predicted.

    When did I “predict” anything?

    How do you know?

    William: This is not about money, it’s about record exposure and facts.

    What records do you expect will be “exposed”?

    William: You should be cheering, verifying all the claims (without physical proof) that you finally have the documents to back up you claims.

    I am as anxious as anyone to see the results of Zullo’s efforts.

  111. avatar
    Rickey April 9, 2014 at 2:56 pm #

    William:
    Don’t get me wrong,

    You have some military officers in history here that can prove me wrong, and declare yes, Japan, 2 years earlier laid out an exact plan in politics, military, exact dates, perfect strategy, month by month, day by day, hour by hour, and never once wavered from it.

    That is not parsing words, but it is the comparison you gave me.

    I’ve talked to brick walls which are more on point than you.

    Your original post said nothing about a deadline planned two years in advance. Japan first began to look into attacking Pearl Harbor in 1940, but no deadline was set at that point. First a great deal of intelligence gathering was required. A formal proposal, called Operation Z, was drawn up in April, 1941, but no actual attack plans could be made until the Japanese had reliable intelligence about the number of ships in Pearl Harbor, the berthing locations of the ships, etc. The attack on Pearl Harbor also had to be coordinated with Japan’s plans to make near-simultaneous attacks on the Philippines, Wake Island, Malaya, Guam, etc.

    The overall plan was finally completed and released by Admiral Yamamoto on November 5, 1941. Two days later Yamamoto chose December 7 as the date of the attack.

    Of course there were contingency plans. One contingency plan was to call the attack off if Japan had been able to secure diplomatic concessions that the U.S. would not interfere with Japan’s ambitions in the Far East. But December 7 was the first and only date which was set, and December 7 was the date on which the attack took place.

    Zullo’s contingency plan is to kick the can down the road while continuing to solicit donations from gullible birthers.

  112. avatar
    Rickey April 9, 2014 at 2:59 pm #

    Arthur:
    It is apparent to anyone familiar with the history of WWII that the appropriate historical analogy to the CCP isn’t Pearl Harbor, it’s Operation Sea Lion.

    Excellent point. But at least the Germans tried.

  113. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 9, 2014 at 3:01 pm #

    William: Hearsay doesn’t mean anything other than in your world when you don’t have the hard documented facts to back verbal claims of political officials.At that point, the full faith clause lost all value.

    So….what would Hawaii have to provide you to convince you that President Obama was born there?

  114. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 3:04 pm #

    bob: Because you think that’s a good idea?But you can’t cite any evidence to demonstrate there are any legitimate questions about President Obama’s natural-born citizenship.

    I think,

    That as an American Citizen, I have a right to know who my elected officials are and their background. Although you are correct whereby in some cases it may not be an “Exact Legal Citation” that yields me that right; I question those that defend I do not nor should I ever have that privilege. I do question those people, such as you as why not should questions arise.

    For me, any defender claiming knowledge, should in fact be supportive of any investigations, which would of course support their position. If one attempt to block and refuse such, then I question the reasoning of why.

  115. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 9, 2014 at 3:08 pm #

    There are one, probably 2 problems with your comment. First the State of Hawaii has provided written verification of the facts on Obama’s birth certificate. It’s not just verbal claims; they are statements signed and sealed by the state’s custodian of vital records and provided to the secretaries of state of Arizona and Kansas.

    The other thing which is likely also a problem is calling Dr. Onaka a “political official.” Given the long tenure of Dr. Onaka, it is very unlikely that he is a political appointee. The former directors of the Department of Health who gave statements–Republican Fukino and Democrat Fuddy–are political appointees.

    William: Hearsay doesn’t mean anything other than in your world when you don’t have the hard documented facts to back verbal claims of political officials. At that point, the full faith clause lost all value.

  116. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 9, 2014 at 3:09 pm #

    William: That as an American Citizen, I have a right to know who my elected officials are and their background. Although you are correct whereby in some cases it may not be an “Exact Legal Citation” that yields me that right; I question those that defend I do not nor should I ever have that privilege. I do question those people, such as you as why not should questions arise.

    Who has said you don’t have a “right” to know who your elected officials are?

    And how do you define “background”? What do you want to see about President Obama’s background that you haven’t seen?

  117. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 9, 2014 at 3:11 pm #

    Are you equating an unemployed used car salesman playing detective and making up outlandish conspiracy theories with a “vital historical development”? If so, this article is for you!

    William: Name one vital historical development in the world historically that met an exact deadline to the day?

  118. avatar
    Sef April 9, 2014 at 3:11 pm #

    William: At that point, the full faith clause lost all value.

    Except not to anyone who mattered (i.e., not you.)

  119. avatar
    bob April 9, 2014 at 3:14 pm #

    William:
    That as an American Citizen, I have a right to know who my elected officials are and their background.Although you are correct whereby in some cases it may not be an “Exact Legal Citation” that yields me that right; I question those that defend I do not nor should I ever have that privilege.

    Who said you lacked that privilege? You exercise your privilege by not voting for the person who has not met your (excessively exacting and selectively applied) standards.

    I do question those people, such asyou as why not should questions arise.

    Because there are no legal or factual bases on which to question President Obama’s natural-born citizenship. You yourself cannot articulate any.

    For me, any defender claiming knowledge, should in fact be supportive of any investigations, which would of course support their position.If one attempt to block and refuse such, then I question the reasoning of why.

    Because, in the real world, the demands upon leaders are many; too many. A good leader (of any persuasion) focuses on what is important, and ignores the ankle-biters.

  120. avatar
    Crustacean April 9, 2014 at 3:14 pm #

    I was hoping our resident expert in the Pacific Theatre of WWII would give his take on this. Thanks, Arthur, you did not disappoint. Operation Sea Lion is the better analogy.

    There’s even a theory that Hitler was never really serious about carrying through with that operation. Hmmm…

    Arthur: It is apparent to anyone familiar with the history of WWII that the appropriate historical analogy to the CCP isn’t Pearl Harbor, it’s Operation Sea Lion.

  121. avatar
    bovril April 9, 2014 at 3:15 pm #

    William:
    So,

    Do I need to do the honor of informing Borvil, whereby I never said that Japan had a “President” in any of my comments, or do you?

    Also, do I need to inform Borvil, or you, that Japan was in fact waiting for a presidential response to japan prior to the war?

    Both of which he/she claims is untrue.

    Poor Silly Billy

    As has been amply demonstrated, your inability to craft an intelligible sentence requires the rest of us lay out all the permutations

    Your statement

    “If you read the history on that attack, the date and time was offset due pending presidential responses or request as well as a host of many other factors, including weather.”

    Since you fail to identify which nation you are discussing it is impossible to determine whether you are stupid, ignorant or both.

    As also demonstrated, the Japanese were not waiting on a response, they sent the military assets over two weeks before the attack.

    Do try and keep up, there’s a good chap.

  122. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 3:15 pm #

    I checked the Constitution; the Full Faith and Credit Clause is intact. It was not in any way altered by the whining of Birfoons. Further updates as events warrant.

  123. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 3:16 pm #

    CarlOrcas: So….what would Hawaii have to provide you to convince you that President Obama was born there?

    Same as you,

    A phone call and a public official saying so…

    Really?

  124. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 9, 2014 at 3:16 pm #

    I personally don’t think Donald Trump ever had any investigators in Hawaii, but was referring to claims from birthers like Jerome Corsi, the same guy who provided the “evidence” Mike Zullo used.

    truxton spangler: I really wish someone would press The Donald to explain what he meant by that, and what his investigators found.

  125. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 9, 2014 at 3:18 pm #

    I dunno. We seem to be doing OK despite the birthers.

    William: A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within.

  126. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 3:19 pm #

    I wonder if today’s Birfoon even realizes that claiming “secret knowledge” in an attempt to win an argument is the same as saying “eh, I got nothin’.”

  127. avatar
    Arthur April 9, 2014 at 3:20 pm #

    William: That as an American Citizen, I have a right to know who my elected officials are and their background.

    William, I don’t disagree with you. The thing is, you believe in a fictitious background for Obama and refuse to accept the background that the state of Hawaii has established and verified, that every Secretary of State, and a variety of state and federal courts have accepted as accurate, that Obama’s challengers in the Democratic primaries accepted, that John McCain and Mitt Romney acknowledged as true, that the Electoral College and the entire Congress made no objection to, and a majority of the American people have voted for,

  128. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 3:22 pm #

    William: Same as you,

    A phone call and a public official saying so…

    Really?

    By the way CarlOcras,

    Putin has just declared he was actually born in S.F., and the dept of health went on t.v. claiming the same is true, and he just put up his bc on the internet.

    If anyone doubts it, well, you know that full faith clause, and any that are researching otherwise, are just a bunch of idiots for not believing in Putin and are Russian racists.

  129. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 9, 2014 at 3:24 pm #

    William: Same as you,

    A phone call and a public official saying so…

    Really?

    Once again your response doesn’t make sense but in a effort to respond I must ask if you haven’t seen the document on the White House website or the Hawaii Department of Health’s website page dealing with the President’s birth certificate?

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate

    http://health.hawaii.gov/vitalrecords/faq-obama/

    Do these help you? If not, why not?

  130. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 3:25 pm #

    William: By the way CarlOcras,

    Putin has just declared he was actually born in S.F., and the dept of health went on t.v. claiming the same is true, and he just put up his bc on the internet.

    If anyone doubts it, well,you know that full faith clause, and any that are researching otherwise, are just a bunch of idiots for not believing in Putin and are Russian racists.

    Epic troll is epic.

  131. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 9, 2014 at 3:26 pm #

    William: By the way CarlOcras,

    Putin has just declared he was actually born in S.F., and the dept of health went on t.v. claiming the same is true, and he just put up his bc on the internet.

    If anyone doubts it, well,you know that full faith clause, and any that are researching otherwise, are just a bunch of idiots for not believing in Putin and are Russian racists.

    Sorry, William, but that’s just about as inane a comment as I’ve seen in a long time.

  132. avatar
    Jim April 9, 2014 at 3:27 pm #

    William: That as an American Citizen, I have a right to know who my elected officials are and their background.

    That is correct, and if they refuse to answer certain questions because they are personal or they feel it is none of your business, you have every right to not vote for them. That’s how it works. A vast majority of Americans felt that the President was hiding nothing important and voted for him. He won. That’s how our democracy works, your recourse is to not cast your vote for those candidates you don’t believe, don’t like, or just can’t stand their hair. It’s your vote. You lost…get over it.

  133. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 9, 2014 at 3:28 pm #

    I listened to your unedited clip in which Barack Obama does not say that his parents met in Selma. I question the integrity of anyone would would make the claim you did based on that video clip.

    William: The unedited video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdYByptC8mY

  134. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 3:29 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Sorry, William, but that’s just about as inane a comment as I’ve seen in a long time.

    Because he’s not even trying to make a point anymore. He doesn’t do very well outside the echo chamber, does he?

  135. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 9, 2014 at 3:30 pm #

    I did not pay William to come here an[d] play the stereotypical birther for this article.

  136. avatar
    Arthur April 9, 2014 at 3:31 pm #

    William: Putin has just declared he was actually born in S.F.,

    William, there’s something I’ve wondered about: why do so many birthers, who claim to hate communism and dictatorships, put so much faith in a man with intimate connections to the former USSR and who was for 16 years an officer in the KGB? Putin, obviously, sees the United States as a threat to Russia and a competitor on the world stage, and would be delighted to know he’s made so many fans in the birther community. It just seems odd that folks who call themselves patriots, speak so approvingly of a man who is an enemy to freedom and an opponent of the United States.

  137. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 3:32 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I did not pay William to come here an play the stereotypical birther for this article.

    Well, I’m glad you got him before he went pro and jacked up his rates. He certainly did seem to cover every trope in a very brief time.

  138. avatar
    bob April 9, 2014 at 3:33 pm #

    William: By the way CarlOcras,

    Putin has just declared he was actually born in S.F., and the dept of health went on t.v. claiming the same is true, and he just put up his bc on the internet.

    The State of Hawaii has said the President Obama was born there. And has issued documents attesting as such that would be accepted in by any governmental agency in the United States.

    But thanks for the ridiculously inept analogy.

  139. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 9, 2014 at 3:34 pm #

    Bonsall Obot: Because he’s not even trying to make a point anymore. He doesn’t do very well outside the echo chamber, does he?

    He’d have gotten 20 thumbs ups (or is it thumb ups?) with that one on BR.

  140. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 3:35 pm #

    Arthur: William, I don’t disagree with you. The thing is, you believe in a fictitious background for Obama and refuse to accept the background that the state of Hawaii has established and verified, that every Secretary of State, and a variety of state and federal courts have accepted as accurate, that Obama’s challengers in the Democratic primaries accepted, that John McCain and Mitt Romney acknowledged as true, that the Electoral College and the entire Congress made no objection to, and a majority of the American people have voted for,

    Arthur,

    I fully understand and agree, that no member of congress made an objection. That doesn’t make a declaration in itself as proof of anything, no matter to whom it pertains too.

    As for a fiction background pertaining to Obama, those that have defended it, are wrong. Those that have said, it’s none of our business, are wrong, and hard documented facts now to prove it.

    Again, I don’t care what party of government any person belongs to, but never tell me, it’s none of my business and I have no right to investigate or have an official investigated. Because I do.

    And what America, Media, the world is about to find out, is true. And we the people, were right.

  141. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 9, 2014 at 3:35 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I did not pay William to come here an play the stereotypical birther for this article.

    Well…..if you had you would have gotten your money’s worth. This guy is right out of Central Casting.

  142. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 9, 2014 at 3:39 pm #

    William: And what America, Media, the world is about to find out, is true. And we the people, were right.

    Are you a member of the Cold Case Posse, William?

    If not how do you know what they’re doing? If you are why are you shooting your mouth off here?

  143. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 9, 2014 at 3:40 pm #

    After some consideration, I think perhaps the better alignment of dark-side characters is Emperor Corsi and Darth Zullo with some more pawn-like character for Gallups.

  144. avatar
    Thinker April 9, 2014 at 3:42 pm #

    Maybe the teabaggers who hate Obama more than they like the United States of America will get their wish after all. Putin for POTUS!

    William: By the way CarlOcras,

    Putin has just declared he was actually born in S.F., and the dept of health went on t.v. claiming the same is true, and he just put up his bc on the internet.

    If anyone doubts it, well,you know that full faith clause, and any that are researching otherwise, are just a bunch of idiots for not believing in Putin and are Russian racists.

  145. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 3:42 pm #

    Gallups is the guy on the comm, demanding to know why stormtrooper THX-1138 isn’t responding.

  146. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 3:43 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I did not pay William to come here an play the stereotypical birther for this article.

    Why would you even declare such Doc?

  147. avatar
    BillTheCat April 9, 2014 at 3:45 pm #

    Ok, the quality of our trolls is definitely going down. I just saw a billboard with The Truth’s picture on it with the words “Miss Me Yet?”.

    This one is extra-concerny. Just asking questions, etc.

  148. avatar
    bob April 9, 2014 at 3:45 pm #

    William:
    As for a fiction background pertaining to Obama, those that have defended it, are wrong.Those that have said, it’s none of our business, are wrong, and hard documented facts now to prove it.

    What fiction? What facts? Specifics, please.

    Again, I don’t care what party of government any person belongs to, but never tell me, it’s none of my business and I have no right to investigate or have an official investigated.Because I do.

    From where does this legal right originate? Specifics, please.

    And what America, Media, the world is about to find out, is true.And we the people, were right.

    Any. Day. Now.

  149. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 3:46 pm #

    So works done for the day,

    That was some hard earned dollars. But it rallied up the team Obots, for what is about to come.

  150. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 9, 2014 at 3:46 pm #

    That’s only half true. You have a right to investigate whatever you want, with certain legal limits on how you investigate. But nowhere in the Constitution or the US Code is there a right given to a private citizen to have an official investigation. A private citizen may petition Congress for an investigation or they may report a crime to prosecutor, but they have no right to action based on that petition or complaint.

    If you want more on the legal underpinning of that concept, check the opinion in the Douglas Vogt case dismissed last year in Washington State.

    William: Again, I don’t care what party of government any person belongs to, but never tell me, it’s none of my business and I have no right to investigate or have an official investigated. Because I do.

  151. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 9, 2014 at 3:48 pm #

    William: Why would you even declare such Doc?

    “That’s a joke, ah say, that’s a joke, son.”

    - Foghorn Leghorn, 1947

  152. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 9, 2014 at 3:49 pm #

    I think CarlOrcas expressed the answer best:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2014/04/obot-wars-episode-vii-a-new-hope/#comment-325487

    William: Why would you even declare such Doc?

  153. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 3:49 pm #

    William:
    So works done for the day,

    That was some hard earned dollars.But it rallied up the team Obots, for what is about to come.

    He made a funny!

    Any. Day. Now.

  154. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 9, 2014 at 3:54 pm #

    Are you the same William that posts on Birther Report?

    You did a good job–153 comments on a “throw away” article is above average.

    William: That was some hard earned dollars. But it rallied up the team Obots, for what is about to come.

  155. avatar
    Whatever4 April 9, 2014 at 3:55 pm #

    William:
    Now,

    You should have enough to argue about of reasons why Obama’s records should never be released.If you claim they have been, you are lying.

    When have any other president’s records been released by the candidate/president prior to them leaving office? You are asking Obama for things no other candidate has voluntarily made public.

  156. avatar
    Benji Franklin April 9, 2014 at 3:56 pm #

    William: Name one vital historical development in the world historically that met an exact deadline to the day?

    Here are several:

    A) Obama’s birth occurred exactly on the date predicted by the vital facts on his original birth certificate which Hawaii has confirmed match those on the White House WEB site’s posted PDF file depicting that birth certificate. (Heh,heh,heh.)

    B) Obama’s 1st Presidential Election Victory

    C) Obama’s 1st Presidential Inauguration

    D) Obama’s 2nd Presidential Election Victory

    E) Obama’s 2nd Presidential Inauguration

    F) The approximately nine-hundred and ninety-nine thousand, and nine-hundred Birthers who didn’t show up for Larry Klayman’s November 19th, 2013, Million Birther March on Washington stayed home on PRECISELY the right day, as Anti-birthers everywhere predicted, thus avoiding a return to the Dark Ages.

  157. avatar
    gorefan April 9, 2014 at 4:01 pm #

    William:
    So works done for the day,

    That was some hard earned dollars.But it rallied up the team Obots, for what is about to come.

    As we approach the one year anniversary:

    “Zullo expects several VIPS to bring this case to public light in the very near future”

    “Just this evening, Lt. Zullo reports that ANOTHER two groups of VIPS have asked to meet with him and want to see the evidence as well.”

    “Lt. Zullo contacted Gallups by phone and indicated that he just, at that very moment, had received information that arrangements were being made for him to present his investigation information to yet ANOTHER group of some of the most powerful VIPS yet.”

    “Gallups said, “We are closer now than ever before in finally seeing this important matter of the greatest fraud ever perpetrated upon the American people come to light. It will come to light.”

    “Please be patient. I know that people are anxious.”

    “Gallups and Zullo expect these newest meetings and evidence presentations to take place over the next month or two – some within mere weeks. “

    http://ppsimmons.blogspot.com/2013/04/latest-4-29-13-more-vips-on-board-with.html

  158. avatar
    Daniel April 9, 2014 at 4:03 pm #

    So out o

    William: That as an American Citizen, I have a right to know who my elected officials are and their background.

    So how many other previous Presidents or Presidential candidates have YOU demanded this level of verification from?

  159. avatar
    Crustacean April 9, 2014 at 4:08 pm #

    I’d nominate the character Salacious Crumb, Jabba’s pet monkey-lizard, of whom it has been written:

    “To its intelligence it seems to be similar to a parrot it can respond seemingly intelligently but is limited in what it actually understands. It can know how to laugh and mimic others but does not seem to create its own ideas.”

    Sounds like Carl to me.

    Dr. Conspiracy: After some consideration, I think perhaps the better alignment of dark-side characters is Emperor Corsi and Darth Zullo with some more pawn-like character for Gallups.

  160. avatar
    Whatever4 April 9, 2014 at 4:09 pm #

    William: Hearsay doesn’t mean anything other than in your world when you don’t have the hard documented facts to back verbal claims of political officials.At that point, the full faith clause lost all value.

    Dr. Alvin Onaka, Registrar of Vital Statistics for the State of Hawaii, isn’t a political official. The documents he certifies aren’t hearsay, they are legal documents.

  161. avatar
    Frito Bandito April 9, 2014 at 4:22 pm #

    William:
    So works done for the day,

    That was some hard earned dollars.But it rallied up the team Obots, for what is about to come.

    Which is nothing but regurgitated lies, half-truths, twisted facts, utter nonsense and Zullo madness.

  162. avatar
    Arthur April 9, 2014 at 4:28 pm #

    William: I fully understand and agree, that no member of congress made an objection. That doesn’t make a declaration in itself as proof of anything, no matter to whom it pertains too.

    William,

    I don’t know if you’ll be back to respond, but you’re being illogical here. There is only one way for Congress to register their lack of confidence in a president elect’s eligibility, and that is when they vote to approve the Electoral College’s vote. If no one in Congress objects, then that is, ipso facto, an approval of individual’s eligibility. Once a president elect has been sworn in, Congress has a second remedy to remove an ineligible president, and that is through impeachment and trail. The fact that no one in Congress has sought that remedy is additional evidence that they accept Obama’s eligibility.

    I note, too, that you ignored my other examples demonstrating the widespread acceptance of Obama’s eligibility. The only way birthers have been able to explain this acceptance is to argue that a conspiracy of unbelievable reach, age, and power has corrupted every branch of government, all major media, the armed forces, and hoodwinked the American people.

  163. avatar
    RanTalbott April 9, 2014 at 4:32 pm #

    William: I would add though, how can anyone not connected to an investigation, criminal or otherwise, claim it’s only alleged?

    Because the MCSO denied the existence of the second investigation shortly after Zullo made the claim.

    As for the first “investigation”, we know it’s only “alleged” because it’s been confirmed that there’s no open case file in Maricopa County, and Zullo has acted in ways that would be illegal if it were a real “official law enforcement investigation” (as he’s repeatedly claimed).

  164. avatar
    Benji Franklin April 9, 2014 at 4:48 pm #

    gorefan: http://ppsimmons.blogspot.com/2013/04/latest-4-29-13-more-vips-on-board-with.html

    Great reminder of their endless pump lying, Gorefan!

    But let’s parse these nonsense teases for something that they could ACTUALLY MEAN!”

    When they say: “Zullo expects several VIPS to bring this case to public light in the very near future”

    they must mean BIG SCARY VIP’s, with L.E.D. eyes that flash and take away Obama’s Natural Born Citizenship, – BIGTIME!!!!

    When they say: “Just this evening, Lt. Zullo reports that ANOTHER two groups of VIPS have asked to meet with him and want to see the evidence as well.”

    they must mean that NOW, four of the eighty groups of VIP’s that Zoo Low has living in his hall closet, have agreed to look at any evidence he has, if Mike will open the door and let them breathe. For captive Birthers, even NO EVIDENCE is like a breath of fresh air. These social misfits must crave even eye-contact!

    When they say: “Lt. Zullo contacted Gallups by phone and indicated that he just, at that very moment, had received information that arrangements were being made for him to present his investigation information to yet ANOTHER group of some of the most powerful VIPS yet.”

    they must mean that Zoo Low’s loved ones are sentencing him to sleep in the lawn shed where the nonsense that he talks in his sleep (read Universe-shattering evidence) is being heard only by rodents, who twice rejected his bid to be their King..

    And when they claim:“Gallups said, “We are closer now than ever before in finally seeing this important matter of the greatest fraud ever perpetrated upon the American people come to light. It will come to light.”

    Yes, we hear you, Carl! Light! Obama Investigation……………Light! Not “Investigation Full Congressional” but ….. Light. Investigation Light!

    What pathetic lies!

    The Birthers display the Constitution-distorting lying postures of 5th or 6th graders bragging about their fathers.

  165. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 4:48 pm #

    And I will again verify,

    Doc, nor Foggy or any Democrat organization is “Paying’ me in any financial funds to post here today. It doesn’t work that way. Nor do I meet Doc in person or Foggy when they meet. Nor do I assist with the planning of creating fake documents to send to attorney’s and courts as legal documents fraudulently. I am not a part of that.

  166. avatar
    bob April 9, 2014 at 4:52 pm #

    William:
    Doc, nor Foggy or any Democrat organization is “Paying’ me in any financial funds to post here today.

    It was a joke. J – O – K – E. (Also: “financial funds”? As opposed to non-financial funds?)

    Nor do I assist with the planning of creating fake documents to send to attorney’s and courts as legal documents fraudulently.

    Who does do that? Zullo?

  167. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 4:56 pm #

    Arthur: William,

    I don’t know if you’ll be back to respond, but you’re being illogical here. There is only one way for Congress to register their lack of confidence in a president elect’s eligibility, and that is when they vote to approve the Electoral College’s vote. If no one in Congress objects, then that is, ipso facto, an approval of individual’s eligibility. Once a president elect has been sworn in, Congress has a second remedy to remove an ineligible president, and that is through impeachment and trail. The fact that no one in Congress has sought that remedy is additional evidence that they accept Obama’s eligibility.

    I note, too, that you ignored my other examples demonstrating the widespread acceptance of Obama’s eligibility. The only way birthers have been able to explain this acceptance is to argue that a conspiracy of unbelievable reach, age, and power has corrupted every branch of government, all major media, the armed forces, and hoodwinked the American people.

    No,

    The first and foremost way is vetting any possible elected official background and verify prior to them running.

    The second way, if to prove they lied, when congress and media failed.

  168. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 4:58 pm #

    Doc,

    You have my I.P. and email. You know I am not Zullo. At least let your followers know that.

  169. avatar
    Frito Bandito April 9, 2014 at 4:58 pm #

    I can’t wait to hear the Birther excuses after their next rally in Washington falls totally flat. Here’s some of the reasons they will cite for the only 10 people attending the “American Spring” next month:

    1. Media blackout
    2. Obama’s jackbooted thugs interfered
    3. Not enough time to get the word out
    4. Bad weather
    5. High gas prices
    6. Subversive operatives
    7. Infiltrators causing trouble
    8. Doctor Conspiracy…somehow

  170. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 5:02 pm #

    William: No,

    The first and foremost way is vetting any possible elected official background and verify prior to them running.

    The second way, if to prove they lied, when congress and media failed.

    “The media didn’t prove they lied, which is proof that they lied and the media didn’t prove it!”

    Begging the question much?

  171. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 5:06 pm #

    William:
    Doc,

    You have my I.P. and email.You know I am not Zullo.At least let your followers know that.

    Yet another straw man; exactly no one thinks you’re Zullo. He’d never jeopardize the grift with the kinds of ridiculous statements you make. He protects his cash flow by never interacting with the rubes, much less his detractors.

  172. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 5:10 pm #

    Bonsall Obot: “The media didn’t prove they lied, which is proof that they lied and the media didn’t prove it!”

    Begging the question much?

    Reword your hypothesis,

    The media never vetted, congress ignored, therefore citizens and legal authorities have taken the vetting questions into their own investigations and gathered the hard documented facts pertaining to questions surrounding Obama.

    Look,

    All of you should be happy and supportive of any legal investigation pertaining to Obama. It backs up your theories of he said she said!

    Be proud, stand up and support it.

  173. avatar
    Frito Bandito April 9, 2014 at 5:11 pm #

    Bonsall Obot: Yet another straw man; exactly no one thinks you’re Zullo. He’d never jeopardize the grift with the kinds of ridiculous statements you make. He protects his cash flow by never interacting with the rubes, much less his detractors.

    Well said sir! Have a bag of Frito’s on me.

  174. avatar
    Daniel April 9, 2014 at 5:12 pm #

    William: The media never vetted, congress ignored, therefore citizens and legal authorities have taken the vetting questions into their own investigations

    I’ll ask again.

    So how many other previous Presidents or Presidential candidates have YOU demanded this level of verification from?

  175. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 5:13 pm #

    Bonsall Obot: Yet another straw man; exactly no one thinks you’re Zullo. He’d never jeopardize the grift with the kinds of ridiculous statements you make. He protects his cash flow by never interacting with the rubes, much less his detractors.

    So I gather you missed the comments of Bob inquiring that I was Zullo? Typical.

  176. avatar
    bob April 9, 2014 at 5:15 pm #

    William:
    The media never vetted, congress ignored

    Objection; assuming facts not in evidence.

    therefore citizens and legal authorities have taken the vetting questions into their own investigations and gathered the hard documented facts pertaining to questions surrounding Obama.

    Which “legal authorities”? What “hard documented facts” have been gathered? Be specific, please.

    All of you should be happy and supportive of any legal investigation pertaining to Obama.It backs up your theories of he said she said!

    There is no “legal investigation” of President Obama. Just some ego-driven coots attempting to suck up money from rubes.

    But you are correct: We can’t wait for Zullo to announce his results because he has nothing — there is no there there. Which is why he endlessly delays.

  177. avatar
    jtmunkus April 9, 2014 at 5:17 pm #

    All the BS hoopla about Uberfuehrer Zullo’s alleged upcoming big reveal is based on the theory that Zullo will have, wait for it……..

    ANOTHER PRESS CONFERENCE! More than two years after the last one…

    Not that any of his promises will come true. Or that the Big Case is officially being taken up by Congress. Or that any real law enforcement agency with jurisdiction is officially prosecuting. Or that any arrests have been made.

    Nope. None of that.

    They’ve promised they are “vetting” “new” “evidence” with “other agencies” and that they will ANNOUNCE SOMETHING someday, sometime, maybe even in the future. And it has nothing to do with Obama’s birth certificate, because after blatantly failing to prove anything is forged or is even remotely nefarious, they’ve officially changed the subject.

    And, just like the last two Cold Cream Pussy pressers, it will be scheduled conveniently to [attempt to] obscure some other Real Law Enforcement reveal of Arpaio corruption, and/or will conveniently dovetail into Arpaio’s political machine’s schedule.

    And, just like the last two Cold Cream Pussy pressers, there will be much made of a couple of prominent lies. Like the bullshit story about the alleged mailman of the parents of an Obama associate conveniently “remembering” – 30 years later – that some black guy said he wanted to be president someday. Or the bullshit story about how the race codes entered on the long form birth certificate proved that the document was a “100% forgery”, even though Zullo knew he was using bogus race code information.

    Best case birther scenario for the Zupaio reveal? Announcements of announcements of announcements to come.

    Of course, having been refuted at every turn, Zullo will point fingers at innocents who prevented him from properly investigating. People who “sealed” documents, made fun of him online, and even Obama supporters who had the nerve to actually support the president.

    So send more money. And we’ll get back with you in another couple of years. Maybe. If we’re done “cataloging” and “vetting” all the new evidence.

    And it all proceeds like clockwork. Because Arpaio and Zullo know that birthers are a bunch of hateful, racist morons who will fall for anything, over and over for years and years. And who will pay good money to be perpetually lied to.

  178. avatar
    William April 9, 2014 at 5:18 pm #

    Daniel: I’ll ask again.

    So how many other previous Presidents or Presidential candidates have YOU demanded this level of verification from?

    Name one President that had so many self inclusions of different areas of birth countries whereby any citizen should question?

    And if any question should arise, name one organization or person that should declare it’s none of their business?

    Again, All documents discovered and exposed, are the U.S. Citizens right to know. And you should be fully supportive of it, with nothing to hide.

  179. avatar
    bob April 9, 2014 at 5:18 pm #

    William: So I gather you missed the comments of Bob inquiring that I was Zullo?Typical.

    Except I never so inquired. Did you miss that?

    You wrote, “Nor do I assist with the planning of creating fake documents to send to attorney’s and courts as legal documents fraudulently.” Implying that someone does do that. To the best of your knowledge, who does do that? Does Zullo do that? Or some other member of the CCP?

  180. avatar
    bob April 9, 2014 at 5:20 pm #

    William: Name one President that had so many self inclusions of different areas of birth countries whereby any citizen should question?

    Again with begging the question: Name one of President Obama’s “self inclusions” that he was born anywhere other than Hawaii?

    And if any question should arise, name one organization or person that should declare it’s none of their business?

    The courts did; repeatedly. Have you not been paying attention?

    Again,All documents discovered and exposed, are the U.S. Citizens right to know.And you should be fully supportive of it, with nothing to hide.

    Not at the expense of tackling real problems.

  181. avatar
    American Mzungu April 9, 2014 at 5:21 pm #

    William, your atavar is so dark on my screen that I can’t make it out. If you are using the same atavar here that you use elsewhere, it must have some special meaning to you. What does you atavar represent and why did you select it?

  182. avatar
    gorefan April 9, 2014 at 5:22 pm #

    William: So I gather you missed the comments of Bob inquiring that I was Zullo?Typical.

    Which comment by Bob?

    Not this one:

    bob: It was a joke.J – O – K – E.(Also: “financial funds”? As opposed to non-financial funds?)

    Who does do that? Zullo?

    Because he is not asking if you are Zullo.

  183. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 5:23 pm #

    William: Reword your hypothesis,

    The media never vetted, congress ignored, therefore citizens and legal authorities have taken the vetting questions into their own investigations and gathered the hard documented facts pertaining to questions surrounding Obama.

    Look,

    All of you should be happy and supportive of any legal investigation pertaining to Obama.It backs up your theories of he said she said!

    Be proud, stand up and support it.

    You make ridiculous assumptions, based upon prejudices, which affect your every conclusion, to wit: since experienced, qualified investigators have never found what you want them to find, they “failed.”

    The more logical conclusion, of course, is that what you wanted them to find does not exist.

    Then, you make the false claim that “citizens and legal authorities” have “gathered the hard documented facts,” yet you cite no facts and produce no documents. Just your “secret knowledge.”

    You are trivially easy to dismiss. Your conspiracy theory is built upon lies, and does not withstand the most cursory scrutiny.

  184. avatar
    gorefan April 9, 2014 at 5:26 pm #

    bob: Except I never so inquired.Did you miss that?

    Typical birther reading comprehension problems.

  185. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 5:27 pm #

    gorefan: Typical birther reading comprehension problems.

    They see what they want to see. Otherwise, there’d be no Birferism.

  186. avatar
    RanTalbott April 9, 2014 at 5:27 pm #

    William: The media never vetted, congress ignored, therefore citizens and legal authorities have taken the vetting questions into their own investigations and gathered the hard documented facts pertaining to questions surrounding Obama.

    What “hard documented facts”? The closest the birfers have come to turning up a new fact is the revelation that Acton & Dystel didn’t fact-check the author bios they prepared.

    But that little droplet of truth was lost in a gushing stream of loony nonsense and outright lies.

    And Congress didn’t “ignore”: it listened, and concluded you were a bunch of crackpots.

  187. avatar
    Publius April 9, 2014 at 5:28 pm #

    Bonsall Obot: He’s a charlatan, and Birfoons are his marks.

    A minor point of correction, if I may.

    He’s a demonstrated, proven charlatan, and Birfoons are his marks.

  188. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 5:30 pm #

    William: So I gather you missed the comments of Bob inquiring that I was Zullo?Typical.

    If by “Typical,” you mean your projecting your own comprehension fail and/or dishonesty upon others… I heartily agree. Typical.

  189. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 5:34 pm #

    Publius: A minor point of correction, if I may.

    He’s a demonstrated, proven charlatan, and Birfoons are his marks.

    I stand corrected, amplified and suitably in awe.

  190. avatar
    Daniel April 9, 2014 at 5:35 pm #

    William: Name one President that had so many self inclusions of different areas of birth countries whereby any citizen should question?

    Every single one, since Obama has only ever declared one.

    But the obvious question arising is… How would you know? Did you ever bother to investigate any other President? Did you ever bother to inquire about any other President? Did you ever even care enough to bother to think about wondering about any other President? I’m betting an honest answer would be “no”. So why this one? Why is this one worthy of your special harassment and not any of all the preceding ones?

    William: And if any question should arise, name one organization or person that should declare it’s none of their business?

    There are several parts of birthers special harassment that are, legally speaking, none of their business. But moreover there is the moral issue, of fair play and freedom from harassment and unreasonable special “investigations”, that comes into play. Profiling is not the American way. It appears to be the birther way.

    William: Again, All documents discovered and exposed, are the U.S. Citizens right to know. And you should be fully supportive of it, with nothing to hide.

    What makes you think you have any Constitutional or legal right to any of those documents? What makes you think the Constitution mandates to YOU the right to declare eligibility?

  191. avatar
    Publius April 9, 2014 at 5:36 pm #

    gorefan: Your ignorance doesn’t make something a lie.

    One of the Laws of Birferism.

    “Anything a Birfer isn’t bright enough to understand is ‘proof’ of a criminal act on the part of someone the Birfer doesn’t like.”

  192. avatar
    gorefan April 9, 2014 at 5:36 pm #

    RanTalbott: And Congress didn’t “ignore”: it listened, and concluded you were a bunch of crackpots.

    The news media also vetted the rumors. They even sent two reporters to the President’s 2008 campaign headquarters. They took photos of the certified copy of his Hawaiian birth certificate. They contacted officials in the Hawaii DOH. They wrote an article about their findings.

    The only problem for guys like William is they didn’t find the answer that he wanted them to find. The only answer he will accept is it’s a forgery. The facts don’t matter to him.

  193. avatar
    Frito Bandito April 9, 2014 at 5:36 pm #

    William: So I gather you missed the comments of Bob inquiring that I was Zullo?Typical.

    Zullo is too busy traveling and collecting money to comment here. I am so looking forward to hearing him lie and delay some more about his “universe shattering” evidence.

    By the way Birthers, contrary to your misguided beliefs, we “Obots” have zero fear of you or the No Case Posse. The only thing we are anxious for is to watch yet another total failure to bring down President Obama with your nonsense.

  194. avatar
    gorefan April 9, 2014 at 5:38 pm #

    RanTalbott: And Congress didn’t “ignore”: it listened, and concluded you were a bunch of crackpots.

    The news media also vetted the rumors. They even sent two reporters to the President’s 2008 campaign headquarters. They took photos of the certified copy of his Hawaiian birth certificate. They contacted officials in the Hawaii DOH. They wrote an article about their findings.

    The only problem for guys like William is they didn’t find the answer that he wanted them to find. The only answer he will accept is ‘it’s a forgery.’ The facts don’t matter to him.

  195. avatar
    Publius April 9, 2014 at 5:38 pm #

    This bears repeating.

    Mike Zullo, January 2013: “The evidence that we have acquired — new-found evidence that we have never made public at any point in time, and we are not going to make public until we have the right opportunity — will convince even the greatest skeptic that this document is 100 percent a forgery.”

    15 months later and we are still waiting for Zullo to find “the right opportunity.”

  196. avatar
    Publius April 9, 2014 at 5:44 pm #

    Rickey:

    We do a lot of cheering around here – every time a birther lawsuit fails.

    Every time a birther is laughed out of court because of their crap, frivolous, baseless, nutjob lawsuits, an angel gets his wings.

  197. avatar
    Publius April 9, 2014 at 5:47 pm #

    Thinker: In their first news conference (March 1, 2012), they presented stuff that was already public.

    In their first news conference, they presented stuff that was already debunked.

  198. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 5:48 pm #

    Publius: Every time a birther is laughed out of court because of their crap, frivolous, baseless, nutjob lawsuits, an angel gets his wings.

    Zullo will never get close to a courtroom with whatever he produces; there’s no money in that course of action. It’s all about donations, book sales and the free pretend-cop accoutrements he gets from Shurf Joke.

  199. avatar
    bob April 9, 2014 at 5:58 pm #

    William wrote at birtherrerport.com:

    I posted many posts at docs site,

    Somehow (not in public discussions) the topic came up that “Doc” was possibly paying me financially to post at his site by his followers on his blog. Which of course is untrue, but I found it quite funny they were memorized by that possibility.

    Which is, of course, untrue. Doc made a joke; we all joined in on it. The only who took Doc seriously was you.

  200. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 5:59 pm #

    Help! I’ve been memorized by a troll!

  201. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater April 9, 2014 at 6:01 pm #

    William: Again, I believe in full investigations of anyone pertaining to questionable background other than qualitative (he/she said) regardless of party lines. That is a difficult pill for you or others to swallow, but I can promise you this; it will not be shocking to most, but will be to your defense.

    So then you believe in the full investigation of Mike Zullo since his background has been entirely questionable and claims he’s made about himself have never been able to be verified? At least with Obama there’s plenty of verifiable information out there. With Zullo there isn’t.

  202. avatar
    Arthur April 9, 2014 at 6:01 pm #

    William: The first and foremost way is vetting any possible elected official background and verify prior to them running.

    The second way, if to prove they lied, when congress and media failed.

    William,

    There is no constitutional authority given to Congress to vet a presidential candidate. In our system of government, vetting is down by the public and by the opposition. It is inconceivable, given the current political climate, that national Republican candidates running for president failed to investigate Obama’s eligibility.

    As for your second sentence, I can’t understand your meaning. Can you clarify?

  203. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 9, 2014 at 6:06 pm #

    William:
    And I will again verify,

    Doc, nor Foggy or any Democrat organization is “Paying’ me in any financial funds to post here today. It doesn’t work that way.Nor do I meet Doc in person or Foggy when they meet.Nor do I assist with the planning of creating fake documents to send to attorney’s and courts as legal documents fraudulently.I am not a part of that.

    You want us to just take your word for that?

  204. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater April 9, 2014 at 6:07 pm #

    William: Bob,
    I does when it pertains to questions relative to our elective government officials in my opinion, regardless of party.
    What I do know at this time, is shocking. And it’s only a portion.

    You know you didn’t actually answer Bob’s question.

  205. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 9, 2014 at 6:07 pm #

    William: The first and foremost way is vetting any possible elected official background and verify prior to them running.

    And who are you going to make responsible for doing that? What kind of authority are you willing to give them?

  206. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater April 9, 2014 at 6:09 pm #

    William: There was never an exact date, only a calculated estimation of a well plan date. I don’t need to be brushed up on that date and how it came to be, as I am fully aware that many different days, months, hours, didn’t play out in the military strategy over the timeline as first thought.

    So Yamamoto setting December 7th as the actual date and it happening on December 7th wasn’t a case of there being an exact date?

  207. avatar
    Arthur April 9, 2014 at 6:10 pm #

    bob: Which is, of course, untrue. Doc made a joke; we all joined in on it. The only who took Doc seriously was you.

    In my experience, it’s common for birthers to take a joke as a serious statement. I don’t think it’s because they can’t tell the difference; rather, it’s because their ethical standards embrace misrepresentation. Creationists operate the same way.

  208. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater April 9, 2014 at 6:10 pm #

    William: Now,
    You should have enough to argue about of reasons why Obama’s records should never be released. If you claim they have been, you are lying.

    So showing the birth certificate is the same thing as not showing it in your book? What makes you think Obama’s records have to be released since Presidents before him haven’t had to release the same records. Double standard much?

  209. avatar
    gorefan April 9, 2014 at 6:11 pm #

    April 29, 2013

    “Zullo expects several VIPS to bring this case to public light in the very near future”

    April 8, 2014

    Zullo: “There will be an announcement in the future, in the very near future.”

  210. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater April 9, 2014 at 6:13 pm #

    William: No that is funny…
    And you have the document in your hands right? Same as you have mine.

    How many Presidents or politicians documents have you had in your hands or have you required this standard of?

  211. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater April 9, 2014 at 6:18 pm #

    William: I can tell you this,
    With what I do know, and it’s very little at this time, your theories are blown thus far. With the release of hard documented information timeline, is coming very soon, and that doesn’t mean many months or years as you have predicted. Not going to happen. This is not about money, it’s about record exposure and facts.
    You should be cheering, verifying all the claims (without physical proof) that you finally have the documents to back up you claims.
    Salute…..

    Lol you’re joking. Carl Gallups and Zullo have been claiming it’s coming very soon for the last few years. I don’t think soon means what you think it does. Brian Reily former Cold Case Posse member already blew this scam apart.

  212. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater April 9, 2014 at 6:27 pm #

    William: Name one President that had so many self inclusions of different areas of birth countries whereby any citizen should question?

    WTF does this even mean? The US is his birth country plain and simple. You’re not making any sense.

  213. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater April 9, 2014 at 6:31 pm #

    bob: Which of course is untrue, but I found it quite funny they were memorized by that possibility.

    Word use failure. We were memorized by it? It’s hillarious that we make a joke and he takes it to heart yet birthers everywhere continually claim we’re paid and they’re serious about it.

  214. avatar
    Benji Franklin April 9, 2014 at 6:32 pm #

    Publius: Mike Zullo, January 2013: “The evidence that we have acquired — new-found evidence that we have never made public at any point in time, and we are not going to make public until we have the right opportunity — will convince even the greatest skeptic that this document is 100 percent a forgery.”

    15 months later and we are still waiting for Zullo to find “the right opportunity.”

    Priceless, Publius!

    Let’s parse some truth into that claim by Zoo Low

    “The evidence that we have invented — never-found evidence that we will never make public at any point in time, and which we were not going to make public because it is just blank sheets of paper — will convince even the smartest Birther that every document that does not claim that Obama is ineligible and a felon and an alien is 100 percent a forgery.”

  215. avatar
    Admiral Crusty April 9, 2014 at 6:35 pm #

    Excellent idea, Doctor Ken! Good thing we have a crack(pot) investimagination team right here at OCT.

    Commander Publius! Come in, Commander Publius! Time to make up, er, I mean, dig up some dirt on Mr. Zullo. If that’s even his real name.

    I will stand here at attention until I receive your orders.

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: So then you believe in the full investigation of Mike Zullo since his background has been entirely questionable and claims he’s made about himself have never been able to be verified?

  216. avatar
    Publius April 9, 2014 at 6:43 pm #

    William: For me, any defender claiming knowledge, should in fact be supportive of any investigations, which would of course support their position. If one attempt to block and refuse such, then I question the reasoning of why.

    There have been many investigations done of the birther allegations.

    All of them have shown every birther claim ever made to be nothing but baseless, unsubstantiated allegations and outright horses***.

    With the vast majority crossing over the line from “baseless and unsubstantiated allegation” to “outright horses****.”

    As far as Zullo and the Cold Cuts Posse are concerned, they are known, proven, verified frauds. Some of their most “important” big evidence, that they made a big deal about at a major press conference, was indisputably shown to be literally a complete fabrication.

    Let me spell that out for you, in case you missed it: Proven false. A bald-faced lie. A con.

    Just in the past month or so, the guy who kicked off the whole Cold Cuts Posse thing went public and said for the record what everyone who was paying attention already knew: There was no real investigation. It was all completely bent from the beginning.

  217. avatar
    Suranis April 9, 2014 at 6:48 pm #

    Lets see. People questioned whether Eisenhower was born in the US. he had a Birth certificate drawn up and that shut the critics up.

    Some people questioned whether John McCain was eligible due to this Panama Birth. Some people also demanded to see his Birth certificate and McCain told them to get lost.

    Some people in Birther Report think that ultra patriotic and definitely eligible Bush the lesser was born and bred in Texas. Said so just this week. Actually he was born in Connecticut and lied his ass off about were he was born to get elected. Connecticut didn’t care to correct him because they are ashamed of it. No-one asked to see his Birth Certificate.

    Obama said in a book Published in 1995 that he was born in Hawaii. He also said it in the Bio on the back of the book and his Bio in the Harvard law review. Hawaii hasn’t corrected Obama because er its true and they have records proving it.

    Finally Gallups seems to have missed a few dates, In a Gallups narrated PPSIMMON video titled, “Breaking! Sheriff Arpaio – FULL STEAM AHEAD with BHO Investigation – Surprises COMING!” Gallups announced that:

    According to Lieutenant Mike Zullo, the evidence continues to mount and continues to be verified by some surprising and perhaps soon to be announced sources. As PPSIMMONS reported last week we have also received inside information from a confidential but highly knowledgeable source that within the next week or so there will be a huge push forward on the eligibility investigation, lining up before the January 6th date when Congress is supposed to certify the Electoral College votes.

    Gosh, that happened January 2013. I wonder what happened. (With thanks to Historiandude)

  218. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 9, 2014 at 6:49 pm #

    What, if any, information is known about previous presidents and presidential candidates, but not known about President Obama?

    William: I think,

    That as an American Citizen, I have a right to know who my elected officials are and their background.Although you are correct whereby in some cases it may not be an “Exact Legal Citation” that yields me that right; I question those that defend I do not nor should I ever have that privilege.I do question those people, such asyou as why not should questions arise.

    For me, any defender claiming knowledge, should in fact be supportive of any investigations, which would of course support their position.If one attempt to block and refuse such, then I question the reasoning of why.

  219. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 9, 2014 at 7:01 pm #

    More importantly, what role is William playing? Stormtrooper? Jawa? Jabba the Hutt’s little pet rat-thing? A face in the crowd at the pod race?

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I did not pay William to come here an play the stereotypical birther for this article.

  220. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 7:04 pm #

    Slartibartfast:
    More importantly, what role is William playing?Stormtrooper?Jawa?Jabba the Hutt’s little pet rat-thing?A face in the crowd at the pod race?

    How DARE you post on-topic???

  221. avatar
    Publius April 9, 2014 at 7:08 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:

    I did not pay William to come here an play the stereotypical birther for this article.

    Thank you for clarifying that, for those who may have had unspoken questions. :-)

  222. avatar
    Publius April 9, 2014 at 7:11 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: After some consideration, I think perhaps the better alignment of dark-side characters is Emperor Corsi…

    Formerly Senator Plagiarine.

  223. avatar
    RanTalbott April 9, 2014 at 7:11 pm #

    William: If one attempt to block and refuse such, then I question the reasoning of why.

    When the purpose of an “investigation” is, not to find out the truth, but to produce partisan propaganda and/or to con people out of their money, any reasonable person should “attempt to block and refuse such”. Especially when its bogus results are being used to incite insurrection.

  224. avatar
    Majority Will April 9, 2014 at 7:14 pm #

    Slartibartfast:
    More importantly, what role is William playing? Stormtrooper? Jawa? Jabba the Hutt’s little pet rat-thing? A face in the crowd at the pod race?

    Angry Tusken Raider

  225. avatar
    Publius April 9, 2014 at 7:16 pm #

    William: Why would you even declare such Doc?

    I think it was an observation that your comments were stereotypically birtherish.

  226. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 7:20 pm #

    RanTalbott: When the purpose of an “investigation” is, not to find out the truth, but to produce partisan propaganda and/or to con people out of their money, any reasonable person should “attempt to block and refuse such”. Especially when its bogus results are being used to incite insurrection.

    If the President is not, in fact, a witch, he should just get in the ducking chair and prove it.

  227. avatar
    bgansel9 April 9, 2014 at 7:20 pm #

    William: Exactly where did you read that? Have a link?

    It was several comments on the Birther Report thread about this very subject.

  228. avatar
    bgansel9 April 9, 2014 at 7:22 pm #

    bob: Which is, of course, untrue. Doc made a joke; we all joined in on it. The only who took Doc seriously was you

    That’s hiiarious! I’m so sorry I missed that.

  229. avatar
    Publius April 9, 2014 at 7:22 pm #

    William: Doc,

    You have my I.P. and email. You know I am not Zullo. At least let your followers know that.

    I don’t think anyone imagines you’re Zullo. I think the prevailing opinion on Zullo would be that he’s too busy griftin’ to waste time commenting here.

  230. avatar
    bgansel9 April 9, 2014 at 7:25 pm #

    William:

    For me, any defender claiming knowledge, should in fact be supportive of any investigations, which would of course support their position.If one attempt to block and refuse such, then I question the reasoning of why.

    Personally, I hope Zullo investigates until his dying breath, I just don’t want Maricopa County Taxpayer funding to be involved in any way.

  231. avatar
    bgansel9 April 9, 2014 at 7:31 pm #

    William: And what America, Media, the world is about to find out, is true. And we the people, were right.

    And when will you realize that isn’t going to happen? Do you have a “this far and no further” boundary that you will not cross? You look so foolish, how long will it take you to wake up and realize how you’re being yanked around on a chain over nothing? LOL

  232. avatar
    Publius April 9, 2014 at 7:37 pm #

    William: All of you should be happy and supportive of any legal investigation pertaining to Obama. It backs up your theories of he said she said!

    Be proud, stand up and support it.

    Again, all the “legal investigations” have been done. They’ve taken place mostly in courtrooms, which have looked at the facts, and ruled (more than 200 times now) that Obama is eligible to be President. They’ve also taken place in the offices of the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service, which similarly concluded that Obama is eligible to be President.

    As for the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office, if you imagine they are actually conducting a “legal investigation” regarding the President’s eligibility, well, I have some prime real estate I’d like to talk to you about down in south Florida.

    This new development area is right in, that is, on, the water.

    And I am telling you, Crocodile Cove is going to be THE. Next. Big. Thing.

  233. avatar
    Commander Publius April 9, 2014 at 7:47 pm #

    Admiral Crusty: Commander Publius! Come in, Commander Publius! Time to make up, er, I mean, dig up some dirt on Mr. Zullo. If that’s even his real name.

    I will stand here at attention until I receive your orders.

    The investimigation of the so-called “Commander,” so-called “Michael,” so-called “Zullo” has already begun.

    You wouldn’t believe what our investimigators are finding out.

  234. avatar
    Commander Publius April 9, 2014 at 7:54 pm #

    Bonsall Obot: If the President is not, in fact, a witch, he should just get in the ducking chair and prove it.

    More to the point, the so-called “Commander,” so-called “Michael,” so-called “Zullo,” should prove he’s not a witch by undergoing the ordeal to prove it.

  235. avatar
    Commander Publius April 9, 2014 at 7:58 pm #

    I’m checking on the proper legal investigative procedure right now for Mr. Zullo to prove he isn’t a witch.

    I’m pretty sure it involves tying him up in a sack and tossing him into the river.

  236. avatar
    Commander Publius April 9, 2014 at 8:06 pm #

    By the way, lest I be accused by some birfer of inciting some form of violence -

    We would never even think of submitting Mr. Zullo to a trial-by-water to prove he isn’t a witch without his express consent.

    Of course, if he isn’t a witch, he can easily lay all of these serious questions to rest.

    All we are asking for here is a simple, straightforward, independent investigation.

  237. avatar
    Yoda April 9, 2014 at 8:37 pm #

    William, what gives anyone the “right” to demand proof to his/her personal satisfaction? Must the president dispel any rumor?

    Those questions have always troubled me. What are your thoughts?

    While you are at it, please tell me why all bitther cites censor the posts. Note that you have not been banned or your posts deleted.

  238. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 8:54 pm #

    I followed that link to BirferRetort.

    Whichever one of you jokers is ScottKB… well-played, sir or madam. That persona is hilarious. I wish our trolls tried half as hard.

  239. avatar
    Joey April 9, 2014 at 8:55 pm #

    William: I think,

    That as an American Citizen, I have a right to know who my elected officials are and their background.Although you are correct whereby in some cases it may not be an “Exact Legal Citation” that yields me that right; I question those that defend I do not nor should I ever have that privilege.I do question those people, such asyou as why not should questions arise.

    For me, any defender claiming knowledge, should in fact be supportive of any investigations, which would of course support their position.If one attempt to block and refuse such, then I question the reasoning of why.

    I support the right of the people to “petition the government for redress of grievances” as it states in the First Amendment. Those who challenge Barack Obama’s eligibility have exercised their right to petition the government via civil suits.
    There have been 220 original jurisdiction rulings on Obama’s eligibility to be president. There have also been 95 state and federal appellate level rulings and 20 appeals to the Supreme Court of the United States.
    As I see it, that’s pretty thorough judicial vetting on this issue.
    I have no problem at all with waiting a bit more to see what the Maricopa County Cold Case Posse’ comes up with, if anything. After all, its been seven years now since Barack Obama first announced his candidacy in 2007. I, for one, am fine with letting the legal process continue to play out.
    Besides, as an Obot-anti-birther, I love seeing the President win in court 335 times in a row.

  240. avatar
    American Mzungu April 9, 2014 at 9:43 pm #

    William,
    I feel you were just starting to hit your stride when you stopped posting. I hope you will come back refreshed tomorrow,,,after you have read Doc C’s article.

  241. avatar
    Dave April 9, 2014 at 9:48 pm #

    The crucifixion of Jesus?

    Or, there’s an old German joke:
    Q. What did the government complete 988 years ahead of schedule?
    A. Das Tausendjähriges Reich

    Seriously, how does one of Doc’s more light-hearted posts instantly attract over 200 comments?

    William:
    Name one vital historical development in the world historically that met an exact deadline to the day?

  242. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 9, 2014 at 9:51 pm #

    Actually I don’t have your IP and email. The software records a IP address, but it’s not necessarily yours. There are ways of faking such things. Also the email address is whatever you type in, unverified.

    That said, why would I think you were Mike Zullo? The thought never crossed my mind.

    William: Doc,

    You have my I.P. and email. You know I am not Zullo. At least let your followers know that.

  243. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 9, 2014 at 9:55 pm #

    Dave:

    Seriously, how does one of Doc’s more light-hearted posts instantly attract over 200 comments?

    They are getting really defensive at being laughed at for believing Zullo will ever produce anything, any time, much less “any day now.” So, like any cult members, they have to spread the gospel…

  244. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 9, 2014 at 9:58 pm #

    Oh, you weren’t aware of the George Washington birthers (I’m serious)?

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/05/was-george-washington-really-born-in-america/

    Just remember that birthers were saying Obama was born in Kenya before they had found any of these so-called “self inclusions” or grandmother tapes, or any reason whatever to believe it. They believed it because they needed to believe it, and then they went about trying to find some justification for what they already believed, abandoning all integrity in the process.

    William: Name one President that had so many self inclusions of different areas of birth countries whereby any citizen should question?

  245. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 9, 2014 at 10:03 pm #

    It appears to be the Angel of Death or the “grim reaper.”

    American Mzungu: What does you atavar represent and why did you select it?

  246. avatar
    Dave April 9, 2014 at 10:05 pm #

    What is it with birthers and misquotes?

    If you like this quote, William, that’s great, but you’ll come off looking smarter if you don’t try to tell us Cicero said it. Yes, you can find this all over the internet attributed to Cicero, but that doesn’t make it true.

    Wikiquote has traced this to a 1965 essay by Justice Millard Caldwell. In that essay, he attributes it to Cicero — but nobody has been able to find it in anything Cicero said or wrote. It appears to be vaguely related to one of Cicero’s speeches to the Senate.

    So if you like this quote, if it really helps you express the way you feel about Obama, go ahead and use it. There’s no need for the phony attribution, it doesn’t help you in any way, it just makes you look like a moron.

    William: A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious…

  247. avatar
    Rickey April 9, 2014 at 10:14 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: So Yamamoto setting December 7th as the actual date and it happening on December 7th wasn’t a case of there being an exact date?

    William can’t bring himself to admit that December 7 was the first and only date set for the attack on Pearl Harbor.

    “Combined Fleet Top Secret Operation Order No. 1″ was approved and released by Admiral Yamamoto on November 5. Two days later he selected December 7 as the date for the attack.

    William, like most birthers, cannot bring himself to admit that he is wrong about anything, even when confronted with irrefutable evidence.

  248. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 9, 2014 at 10:25 pm #

    Clarification: That is not something the birthers turned up. It was turned up by Breitbart News, and they are not birthers.

    RanTalbott: The closest the birfers have come to turning up a new fact is the revelation that Acton & Dystel didn’t fact-check the author bios they prepared.

  249. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 9, 2014 at 10:29 pm #

    Clarification: A McCain aide showed his birth certificate to one reporter, Michael Dobbs.

    Suranis: Some people questioned whether John McCain was eligible due to this Panama Birth. Some people also demanded to see his Birth certificate and McCain told them to get lost.

  250. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 9, 2014 at 10:35 pm #

    As an American taxpayer, I ought to have a right to examine the financial dealings of any non-profit organization that my taxes subsidize. So would you support my demand for the Cold Case Posse’s records of income and revenue? It’s really important because I suspect some hanky panky. How about my call for an “official investigation”?

    William: Again, I don’t care what party of government any person belongs to, but never tell me, it’s none of my business and I have no right to investigate or have an official investigated. Because I do.

  251. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 9, 2014 at 10:41 pm #

    So let me get this right. Zullo is not a witch and Obama is not a witch. Using birther formal logic (interpreting Minor v. Happersett): Obama is Zullo.

  252. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 9, 2014 at 10:45 pm #

    You forgot to point out that the decision in Minor was unanimous. But I have heard that Zullo weighs the same as a duck…

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    So let me get this right. Zullo is not a witch and Obama is not a witch. Using birther formal logic (interpretingMinor v. Happersett): Obama is Zullo.

  253. avatar
    bgansel9 April 9, 2014 at 10:52 pm #

    Joey: Besides, as an Obot-anti-birther, I love seeing the President win in court 335 times in a row.

    Exactly! Why anyone thinks Obama supporters are shaking in their boots is beyond me. I am enjoying this political theater (and that is what it is) as it’s very entertaining.

  254. avatar
    Suranis April 9, 2014 at 10:54 pm #

    True, but he didn’t release it to the public.

    You know, I wouldn’t really have a problem with a state passing a law that required a newly issued birth certificate to be presented to a proper authority, especially since NBC status and 34 years old is a requirement for the job. I really didn’t have a problem with SOS Barnett seeking a verification either, even though he was doing it just to buff up his tea bag cred.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Clarification: A McCain aide showed his birth certificate to one reporter, Michael Dobbs.

  255. avatar
    RanTalbott April 9, 2014 at 10:55 pm #

    Publius: They’ve taken place mostly in courtrooms, which have looked at the facts, and ruled (more than 200 times now) that Obama is eligible to be President

    Technically, no: more than 90% of the time, they’ve ruled that the plaintiff is ineligible to ask the court to decide the issue.

    The birfers do lose every time there’s an actual hearing on the merits, but there’s some substance to their complaints about the fact of (but not the conspiratorial explanations for) their many denied opportunities to present their evydunce.

  256. avatar
    Commander Publius April 9, 2014 at 10:55 pm #

    Dave: If you like this quote, William, that’s great, but you’ll come off looking smarter if you don’t try to tell us Cicero said it.

    “In the summer I sang: Of birther suits, of foolish briefs, of endless cases lost.” – Emily Dickinson

  257. avatar
    Commander Publius April 9, 2014 at 10:57 pm #

    RanTalbott: Technically, no: more than 90% of the time, they’ve ruled that the plaintiff is ineligible to ask the court to decide the issue.

    Pardon. I do stand corrected.

  258. avatar
    Commander Publius April 9, 2014 at 10:59 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: So let me get this right. Zullo is not a witch and Obama is not a witch. Using birther formal logic (interpreting Minor v. Happersett): Obama is Zullo.

    But sir, I object!

    It has yet to be proven that Zullo is not a witch.

  259. avatar
    Commander Publius April 9, 2014 at 11:01 pm #

    Commander Publius: It has yet to be proven that Zullo is not a witch.

    In fact, by birther logic:

    Therefore, Zullo IS a witch.

  260. avatar
    Jim April 9, 2014 at 11:02 pm #

    Suranis:
    You know, I wouldn’t really have a problem with a state passing a law that required a newly issued birth certificate to be presented to a proper authority, especially since NBC status and 34 years old is a requirement for the job. I really didn’t have a problem with SOS Barnett seeking a verification either, even though he was doing it just to buff up his tea bag cred.

    If they really think there’s a problem, then the President should produce the BC before the body that decides if a Candidate is eligible. According to the Constitution, that would be Congress. So far, I’ve seen no one even bring up a bill there. You should not have 1 state be able to say the candidate is not eligible even though the other 49, etc. say they are. You can be sure…someone, somewhere (think Arpaio) will do it for political reasons.

  261. avatar
    bgansel9 April 9, 2014 at 11:04 pm #

    William: What do you think he was saying in a lie? Of course I and the rest of the world knows that wasn’t true, and so do you. So how many lies of his life are you willing to defend as some partially true, some true, some lies. And those that investigate, you then somehow question reasons why for verification?

    Are you lying every time you tell a joke?

  262. avatar
    Joey April 9, 2014 at 11:36 pm #

    bgansel9: Exactly! Why anyone thinks Obama supporters are shaking in their boots is beyond me. I am enjoying this political theater (and that is what it is) as it’s very entertaining.

    There’s a lot of psychological projection going on with the Birther Cultists. They WISH anti-birthers feared The Cold Case Posse, so they project that we actually do.

  263. avatar
    Joey April 9, 2014 at 11:40 pm #

    Commander Publius: But sir, I object!

    It has yet to be proven that Zullo is not a witch.

    Which Zulu are you speaking of? There are tens of thousands of Zulus, you know.

  264. avatar
    John Reilly April 10, 2014 at 12:13 am #

    I’ve had a chance to read a day’s worth of William. A giant waste of time.

    William, if you don’t like a candidate, don’t think he’s being square with you, or for any reason at all, don’t vote for him.

    As to our President and Vice-President, they are thoroughly vetted exactly as described in the Constitution, and on the exact dates set by law. Congress vets the President. If only one member from each house questions the President’s bona fides, Congress debates it. As I recall, there were House members who challenged Bush but no Senator joined in the challenge in 2000. In 2004 there were challenges from both a Senator (Boxer?) and a representative. The respective houses voted to reject the challenge.

    There were no challenges to Pres. Obama or Vice-President Biden either in 2008 or 2012. You might wonder why you are troubled when not a single member of Congress shares your concern. Not a single one. Do you think Dr. Taitz hadn’t written to everyone and cornered Justices Roberts and Scalia?

    And if the American way, enshrined in our Constitution, is not good enough for you, persuade Congress to amend the Constitution so we have an electoral commission which vets candidates before they run. You can imagine what they will do with Sen. Cruz, whose Father fought with Castro. Sen. Cruz was born in Canada and holds no U.S. birth certificate. I would think he may be overly influenced by the anti-colonial leanings of his formerly Communist Father. Or what will they do with Gov. Jindal, who was conceived in India. There are those of us who believe life begins at conception. He’s not natural-conceived. Maybe the electoral commission won’t like Gov. Christie, just because he is larger than life, and Rhode Island. The possibilities are endless. There are countries with such commissions.

    Pres. Obama ran in 2008. He is, last I checked, Black. He did not keep that a secret. He has a funny first name. His middle name is Hussein (not Steve as he once suggested). His Mother and Father were not married when he was conceived. In some churches, like mine, that’s a sin. His Father was not a citizen. He lived for a while in Indonesia and is conversant with Muslim prayer. Given all that, he won a landslide victory over a genuine American war hero (for whom I voted). He then won the electoral college by a landslide, and, as I mentioned, not a single member of Congress challenged his eligibility when given the opportunity by Vice-President Dick Cheney. Chief Justice Roberts, a Republican, swore him in twice in 2009 and twice in 2013.

    And you’re not happy with that process? Give me a frigging break.

  265. avatar
    Keith April 10, 2014 at 1:15 am #

    CarlOrcas: I was going to bring up Genesis but decided William wouldn’t like that one either since we don’t have a pre-event schedule to compare it against.

    What about the birth of Jesus?

  266. avatar
    Keith April 10, 2014 at 1:19 am #

    William: Hearsay doesn’t mean anything other than in your world when you don’t have the hard documented facts to back verbal claims of political officials.At that point, the full faith clause lost all value.

    No hearsay is involved. There is, however, an awful lot of innuendo, rumor, invented from whole cloth poison pen smears, and outright lies from ‘your side’.

  267. avatar
    bgansel9 April 10, 2014 at 1:21 am #

    John Reilly: He’s not natural-conceived.

    Oh God, is this where we’re going next? LMAO

  268. avatar
    John Reilly April 10, 2014 at 1:30 am #

    bgansel9: Oh God, is this where we’re going next? LMAO

    Only for Black candidates. Or Democrats. Hence the fascination with Ms. Dunham’s dating life.

  269. avatar
    RanTalbott April 10, 2014 at 1:32 am #

    John Reilly: He’s not natural-conceived.

    I can see it now: “But, Honey, we have to make these videos: someday, our child may grow up to run for President, and she’ll need proof that she had two citizen parents and wasn’t a test-tube baby”…

  270. avatar
    John Reilly April 10, 2014 at 1:41 am #

    William: Hearsay doesn’t mean anything other than in your world when you don’t have the hard documented facts to back verbal claims of political officials.At that point, the full faith clause lost all value.

    IANAL, but I read and write English. So your statement makes no sense. But if you want percipient witnesses, just tell us, as you have been challenged here earlier, exactly who testified as to the facts of John McCain’s birth? Mitt Romney’s? Come on. Name and date of the testimony. Were they cross-examined by Dr. Taitz or equivalent? We want to know who was there. Want a real President, not just some wannabe? George H.W. Bush, as I would think Barbara Bush can verify the facts about George W. Bush. Ronald Reagan, who did not even have a birth certificate until the 30s.

    Let’s go, Mr. I don’t want no hearsay.

  271. avatar
    Keith April 10, 2014 at 1:49 am #

    William:
    And I will again verify,

    Doc, nor Foggy or any Democrat organization is “Paying’ me in any financial funds to post here today. It doesn’t work that way.Nor do I meet Doc in person or Foggy when they meet.Nor do I assist with the planning of creating fake documents to send to attorney’s and courts as legal documents fraudulently.I am not a part of that.

    Prove it – show us the pay stubs.

  272. avatar
    Keith April 10, 2014 at 1:58 am #

    Bonsall Obot: How DARE you post on-topic???

    Even George Takei is twittering on topic: It’s the dark side of the nebula.

  273. avatar
    Keith April 10, 2014 at 2:00 am #

    Publius: Formerly Senator Plagiarine.

    Wouldn’t that be Paul Ryan?

  274. avatar
    SanDiegoJoe April 10, 2014 at 2:09 am #

    Woodrowfan: I was thinking the same thing. He really thinks no big event ever met a deadline??

    DDay was sujpposed to be on june 5!

  275. avatar
    Keith April 10, 2014 at 2:12 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Clarification: A McCain aide showed his birth certificate to one reporter, Michael Dobbs.

    Clarification: A McCain aide reportedly showed his birth certificate to one reporter, Michael Dobbs.

    There is no proof of this and no one from the McCain camp has ever confirmed it. Furthermore, Dobbs report misidentified the birth location as claimed by McCain; this can only mean that Dobbs is lying about seeing the birth certificate, McCain’s aide showed him a fake BC, or McCain is himself lying about his birthplace.

  276. avatar
    Keith April 10, 2014 at 2:15 am #

    Suranis: You know, I wouldn’t really have a problem with a state passing a law that required a newly issued birth certificate to be presented to a proper authority

    I thought that was a requirement in all 50 states and in all territories. Doc has reportedly spent much of his professional career providing solutions for the proper authorities in several of those states to manage and maintain their BC collection.

  277. avatar
    Keith April 10, 2014 at 2:22 am #

    John Reilly: Only for Black candidates.Or Democrats.Hence the fascination with Ms. Dunham’s dating life.

    Would that be LENA Dunham?

    If not I am really surprised that the Motherbashers haven’t brought her into the mythology yet.

  278. avatar
    Keith April 10, 2014 at 2:24 am #

    RanTalbott: I can see it now: “But, Honey, we have to make these videos: someday, our child may grow up to run for President, and she’ll need proof that she had two citizen parents and wasn’t a test-tube baby”…

    If it’s not on the internet it didn’t happen…

  279. avatar
    Joey April 10, 2014 at 2:28 am #

    Keith: Clarification:A McCain aide reportedly showed his birth certificate to one reporter, Michael Dobbs.

    There is no proof of this and no one from the McCain camp has ever confirmed it. Furthermore, Dobbs report misidentified the birth location as claimed by McCain; this can only mean that Dobbs is lying about seeing the birth certificate, McCain’s aide showed him a fake BC, or McCain is himself lying about his birthplace.

    Here’s a link to Michael Dobbs’ Washington Post article on McCain’s birth certificate and birthplace. He did not misidentify the place of birth.
    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/05/john_mccains_birthplace.html

  280. avatar
    Keith April 10, 2014 at 2:36 am #

    Joey: Here’s a link to Michael Dobbs’ Washington Post article on McCain’s birth certificate and birthplace. He did not misidentify the place of birth.
    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/05/john_mccains_birthplace.html

    I stand corrected on that point. Thank you.

    There is still no proof that Dodds saw the birth certificate.

  281. avatar
    SanDiegoJoe April 10, 2014 at 2:48 am #

    reads like a bunch of lawyers trying to explain their position to the jury.

    No lies in court, as they are just the beliefs of the attorney, and the jury has to decide which lie to believe.

    Not one dares to tell the truth for they may lose the action and no one wants to be on the losing side.

  282. avatar
    The Magic M April 10, 2014 at 4:24 am #

    John Reilly: persuade Congress to amend the Constitution so we have an electoral commission which vets candidates before they run. You can imagine what they will do with Sen. Cruz, whose Father fought with Castro

    Not just that; it would essentially be a partisan nightmare. Every single decision would go up to SCOTUS unless the amended Constitution provided that the commission’s rulings are final and not subject to judicial review – and in that case, who would stop the commission from being stacked by the majority party?
    I would like to see birthers go ballistic when such a commission, with a Democratic majority, simply rejected every Republican candidate who stood a chance of winning. ;)

    Besides, I guarantee you that no birther would be satisfied with the commission ruling that Obama has proven to their satisfaction that he was born in Hawaii and does not melt when touched with a crucifix.

    Which clearly shows that ultimately, the people are the best arbiter of who they want to vote for – especially in a country where “vetting” is already done to the utmost extent, basically translating to “digging up even the smallest piece of dirt you can find on the other guy”.

    (Which is something that is entirely uncommon in Germany; the worst you’d see is someone being confronted with political statements from 20 years ago. The only real “character assassination” I’ve witnessed was when our biggest tabloid claimed a prominent candidate for the Green Party had beaten a policeman almost to death some 30 years earlier during a demonstration. The claim turned out to have been fabricated.)

    John Reilly: Pres. Obama ran in 2008. He is, last I checked, Black.

    Which again shows the root of the entire “vetting” claims – “blacks need not apply”.

  283. avatar
    The European April 10, 2014 at 6:00 am #

    Thank you, John Reilly, for the time that you sacrificed to write that quite long post. But all your thoughts and words are wasted on William.

  284. avatar
    American Mzungu April 10, 2014 at 7:27 am #

    The European: Thank you, John Reilly, for the time that you sacrificed to write that quite long post. But all your thoughts and words are wasted on William.

    They may be wasted on William, but they (and the writings of others here) are valuable contributions to sanity and/or entertainment.

  285. avatar
    The European April 10, 2014 at 7:37 am #

    From BR:

    William 83p · 11 hours ago
    Time for me to Sign off…

    Trust me, all of you will be vindicated with the truth shortly.

    William, are you trustworthy ? No.

  286. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 10, 2014 at 7:45 am #

    I see no reason to question Dobb’s testimony. It is certainly good enough for a Wikipedia source.

    Keith: There is still no proof that Dodds saw the birth certificate.

  287. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 10, 2014 at 7:56 am #

    I listened to the clip. Obama wasn’t lying literally or figuratively. You’re suffering from some kind of mental defect.

    William: What do you think he was saying in a lie? Of course I and the rest of the world knows that wasn’t true, and so do you. So how many lies of his life are you willing to defend as some partially true, some true, some lies. And those that investigate, you then somehow question reasons why for verification?

  288. avatar
    Keith April 10, 2014 at 8:23 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I see no reason to question Dobb’s testimony. It is certainly good enough for a Wikipedia source.

    I can’t and don’t disagree. I’ll just point out that dozens of reporters saw Obama’s Birth Certificate first hand, and exactly one supposedly saw McCain’s.

    Yet, as we all know, McCain’s BC is considered proven true by birthers because of that one viewing, while Obama’s is considered proven false by the dozens of viewings.

    Dobbs’ story is backed by one person, himself. Not McCain. Not McCains staff.

    The Obama ‘reveal’ is backed up by dozens of independent witnesses, including some who are decidedly anti-Obama (Kinsolving?).

    In my estimation, Dobbs’ story is unsubstantiated until somebody in a position to know backs it up.

  289. avatar
    John Reilly April 10, 2014 at 9:16 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I see no reason to question Dobb’s testimony. It is certainly good enough for a Wikipedia source.

    Per William, what Dobbs said was hearsay, so it doesn’t count. Except that Sen. McCain is white, so William will give him a pass.

  290. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 10, 2014 at 9:17 am #

    When I’m replying to Birfers, I never, ever expect them to learn. If they were open to learning, they wouldn’t be Birfers after all these years.

    I’m replying for the sake of the lurker who really does want to learn. And I employ ALINSKYITE RIDICULE because it’s fun and because it’s funny and because being publicly, volubly stupid should be painful and humiliating.

    A big part of our problem in public discourse is the reluctance to point out liars. This only emboldens the liars, as they know there will be no consequences for their lying. That’s how we ended up with Fox “news,” the teabaggers, and Birfers.

    I call out liars. I wish more people would.

  291. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 10, 2014 at 10:04 am #

    Also, all that sweet, sweet Soros cash I’m raking in.

  292. avatar
    Commander Publius April 10, 2014 at 10:20 am #

    Bonsall Obot: That’s how we ended up with Fox “news,” the teabaggers, and Birfers.

    I call out liars. I wish more people would.

    The basic principle of the TEA Party is that Americans have been Taxed Enough Already.

    That’s it.

    You “call out liars,” but you (and some others here) don’t hesitate to use an ugly, vulgar sexual slur (“teabaggers,” which describes the act of someone squatting over another person and lowering his scrotum into that person’s mouth) to describe someone with whom you happen to disagree politically.

    Such conduct is, in my opinion, extremely unbecoming. I doubt you would want to be described in ugly, vulgar, and completely inaccurate terms yourself.

    So why do you do it?

  293. avatar
    Commander Publius April 10, 2014 at 10:26 am #

    By the way, the vast majority of members of the TEA Party are decent Americans who love their country who are interested in participating in the political process, just like they’re supposed to. They’re interested in having a voice and promoting what they sincerely believe is beneficial for the country. They pay taxes, contribute to their communities, and are concerned about federal government overreaching and overspending, and about a sustainable future for our country. They are loyal, patriotic Americans.

    And you insult them in the most vulgar way possible.

    Do you really consider such behavior appropriate?

    Really?

  294. avatar
    slash2k April 10, 2014 at 10:54 am #

    Commander Publius: You “call out liars,” but you (and some others here) don’t hesitate to use an ugly, vulgar sexual slur (“teabaggers,” which describes the act of someone squatting over another person and lowering his scrotum into that person’s mouth) to describe someone with whom you happen to disagree politically.

    The TEA Party’s first big gimmick, on 15 April 2009, was to send a tea bag to the White House and to Congress, under the slogan “Tea Bag the Fools in D.C.” It’s pretty easy to find photos from the 2009 rallies with little old ladies holding signs about “Teabagging 4 Jesus.” If members of the TEA Party say that they are teabagging, why exactly should anybody else refrain from use of the term???

  295. avatar
    Arthur April 10, 2014 at 11:12 am #

    Commander Publius: By the way, the vast majority of members of the TEA Party are decent Americans who love their country

    True enough; they love “their country.” Unfortunately for them, America is trending away from the white, older, conservative demographic that describes what the Tea Party defines as “their country.” Moreover, I find that Tea Party members experienced enormous economic benefit from a post-WWII America that saw rising wages, low income disparity, expanding infrastructure spending and social welfare benefits, broad support for public education, exceptionally low high education tuition, etc., etc., etc. Now, having milked the cowed that their parents raised, they are secure in their retirement and receiving the highest social security benefits in history And after all that, it’s “Hey, we’re taxed enough already!” Hypocrisy much?

  296. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 10, 2014 at 11:13 am #

    Again, Slash beat me to it.

    The record is pretty clear that they gave themselves the name, and embraced it. That they retroactively want to blame others, and to forbid them from using it, is pretty funny, but has no force of law or custom upon me.

    Retroactively defining the “tea” party is similarly disingenuous; for the vast majority of Americans (and all those making less than 250k a year,) taxes have gone down since the President took office. The President never even proposed raising taxes on the middle class. The deficit has decreased dramatically, both in real dollars and as a percentage of GDP. The bailouts and the stimulus (that latter of which should have been bigger) worked, and saved us from another Great Depression.

    They’re furious with the President, to be sure… but not about taxes. That’s the lie. There’s something else about this President that enrages them.

    The notion that I owe the teabaggers some sort of courtesy, much less respect, that they are utterly unwilling to themselves demonstrate, is not yet credible.

  297. avatar
    Commander Publius April 10, 2014 at 11:37 am #

    Bonsall Obot:
    The record is pretty clear that they gave themselves the name, and embraced it. That they retroactively want to blame others, and to forbid them from using it, is pretty funny, but has no force of law or custom upon me.

    No, it isn’t. The TEA Party has never, in any official way, given themselves the name “teabaggers.” Nor have the leadership of the TEA Party embraced the name.

    If you have information to the contrary, please share it.

    That a few old ladies may have ignorantly used the term is not an embracing of the term by members of the TEA Party as a whole. And now that those little old ladies know what else the term is used for (if anyone has been brave enough to tell them), I seriously doubt you can find any of them “embracing” the term.

    It is also a historical reference to the famous Boston Tea Party, which was all a matter involving… gee, guess what? Taxation.

    You use the term “teabagger” as a vulgar, ugly slur, and you know it. It is about the political equivalent, in my opinion, of calling those you disagree with “n*ggers.” Except you can’t use the term “n*gger” and get away with it. And you wouldn’t want to, because society is dead set against you using such a racial slur.

    But you CAN use the political slur “teabagger” and get away with that.

    Retroactively defining the “tea” party is similarly disingenuous; for the vast majority of Americans (and all those making less than 250k a year,) taxes have gone down since the President took office. The President never even proposed raising taxes on the middle class. The deficit has decreased dramatically, both in real dollars and as a percentage of GDP. The bailouts and the stimulus (that latter of which should have been bigger) worked, and saved us from another Great Depression.

    There’s no “retroactively defining” the TEA Party here. Do you not know what “TEA Party” stands for? The term “TEA” stands for “Taxed Enough Already.” That’s what it stood for at the beginning, and that’s what it has stood for for the entire history of the TEA Party.

    As for the economics of it, I’ve no interest in debating what the best economic policy is. People with PhDs in think tanks could debate economic policy for weeks. While the deficit may have gone down, the national debt has gone steadily and alarmingly up. It is inevitable that the money to pay for that debt has to eventually come from somewhere. If you’re not concerned about that debt, then you’re not paying attention.

    The notion that I owe the teabaggers some sort of courtesy, much less respect, that they are utterly unwilling to themselves demonstrate, is not yet credible.

    And when has a member of the TEA Party (much less members of the TEA Party in general) called you a vulgar sexual slur because they disagree with your political position? Have I missed something?

  298. avatar
    Joey April 10, 2014 at 11:38 am #

    Keith: I stand corrected on that point. Thank you.

    There is still no proof that Dodds saw the birth certificate.

    What type of “proof” do you require?

    From Dobbs’ article: “As I reported earlier, the McCain campaign has declined to publicly release the senator’s birth certificate. But a senior campaign official showed me a copy of his birth certificate issued by the “family hospital” in the Coco Solo submarine base. (McCain’s grandfather commanded the Coco Solo Naval Air Station in 1936; his father was the executive officer of a submarine based in Coco Solo.)”

  299. avatar
    Commander Publius April 10, 2014 at 11:46 am #

    Commander Publius: It is also a historical reference to the famous Boston Tea Party, which was all a matter involving… gee, guess what? Taxation.

    Sorry, I edited my quote and added and misplaced the above paragraph. It was commentary on the meaning of the term “TEA Party,” and should have immediately followed the paragraph in which I observed that “TEA” stands for “Taxed Enough Already.”

  300. avatar
    Joey April 10, 2014 at 11:54 am #

    Commander Publius: No, it isn’t. The TEA Party has never, in any official way, given themselves the name “teabaggers.” Nor have the leadership of the TEA Party embraced the name.

    If you have information to the contrary, please share it.

    That a few old ladies may have ignorantly used the term is not an embracing of the term by members of the TEA Party as a whole. And now that those little old ladies know what else the term is used for (if anyone has been brave enough to tell them), I seriously doubt you can find any of them embracing the term.

    You use it as a vulgar, ugly slur, and you know it. It is about the political equivalent, in my opinion, of calling those you disagree with “n*ggers.” Except you can’t use the term “n*gger” and get away with it. And you wouldn’t want to, because society is dead set against you using such a racial slur.

    But you CAN use the political slur “teabagger” and get away with that.

    There’s no “retroactively defining” the TEA Party here. Do you not know what “TEA Party” stands for? The term “TEA” stands for “Taxed Enough Already.” That’s what it stood for at the beginning, and that’s what it has stood for for the entire history of the TEA Party.

    As for the economics of it, I’ve no interest in debating what the best economic policy is. People with PhDs in think tanks could debate economic policy for weeks. While the deficit may have gone down, the national debt has gone steadily and alarmingly up. It is inevitable that the money to pay for that debt has to eventually come from somewhere. If you’re not concerned about that debt, then you’re not paying attention.

    And when has a member of the TEA Party (much less members of the TEA Party in general) called you a vulgar sexual slur because they disagree with your political position? Have I missed something?

    Insulting one’s political opponents is an historic tradition as old as time. In early American history the Thomas Jefferson campaign attacked John Adams as having a “hideous hermaphroditical character, which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman.”

    In return, the Adams’ campaign called Vice President Jefferson “a mean-spirited, low-lived fellow, the son of a half-breed Indian squaw, sired by a Virginia mulatto father.”

    And after that, things got nasty!

    Let’s not forget that one Founding Father and the third Vice President of the United States shot and killed another Founding Father, the first Secretary of the Treasury.

  301. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 10, 2014 at 12:01 pm #

    Forgive me for not block quoting here, as I am on my phone and it’s difficult to do so repeatedly;

    Inasmuch as the tea party claims to have no official leaders and paints themselves as a “grassroots” organization (they’re not; the vast majority of their funding comes from the Kochs and sundry right-wing shells,) the notion that they’d have an “official” name is specious. I never heard the term teabagger until they used it; that it is vulgar and insulting in no way dissuades me from using it as well, as I find them to be vulgar and insulting (yes, sometimes sexually. The President and his supporters are regularly referred to by the teabaggers in equally vulgar, if not accurately descriptive, terms. I refer you to ANY tea party website that allows comments for confirmation of this.)

    Your claim that the tea party is all about taxes in no way explains the monkey dolls, racist slogans and racist photo illustrations which appear at every rally or website associated with the tea party. When those cease, I will entertain the argument that it’s all about taxes, and not before.

  302. avatar
    Commander Publius April 10, 2014 at 12:05 pm #

    Joey: Insulting one’s political opponents is an historic tradition as old as time.

    Well, in that you are certainly correct.

    I’ve always considered Obama Conspiracy Theories a place for civil discourse, though, unlike the birther web sites.

    Let’s not forget that one Founding Father and the third Vice President of the United States shot and killed another Founding Father, the first Secretary of the Treasury.

    Yes, and the incident is generally regarded as a sorry and regrettable one. It also destroyed two lives, the life of the man who died and the life of the man who lived; at least in the sense that it ended his great career, and his name has been forever tarnished with the incident.

    I’ll tell you what. If it’s generally agreed here that it’s acceptable to refer to members of the TEA Party as “teabaggers,” then those who wish to indulge themselves in vulgar slurs can have it. I’ll simply spend my time elsewhere from now on.

  303. avatar
    Commander Publius April 10, 2014 at 12:07 pm #

    Bonsall Obot: Your claim that the tea party is all about taxes in no way explains the monkey dolls, racist slogans and racist photo illustrations which appear at every rally or website associated with the tea party. When those cease, I will entertain the argument that it’s all about taxes, and not before.

    You have documentation of this? At “every” rally, and “every” website “associated” with the TEA Party?

    Really?

  304. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 10, 2014 at 12:16 pm #

    Commander Publius: You have documentation of this? At “every” rally, and “every” website “associated” with the TEA Party?

    Really?

    Every one I’ve seen, yes. If you have evidence of a tea party rally where the President was referred to as the President, never as a communist or as a socialist or as a homosexual or as a monkey or as a Kenyan, I shall be very glad to know of it, for it would demonstrate a great advance in their discourse. But they hate this President so much, for their own reasons, that I do not expect this to happen any time soon, if ever.

    As to the other: this place would be the poorer without you, but I’m not yet prepared to make concessions to the people who hate me, hate my President, and who, intentionally or otherwise, are the prime motivators in making things worse every day.

  305. avatar
    aarrgghh April 10, 2014 at 12:33 pm #

    fox news’ neil cavuto:

    apr 13, 2009: “We are going to be right in the middle of these teabaggers because at Fox we do not pick and choose these rallies and protests. We were there for the Million Man March.”

    ——

    may 20, 2009: “Score One for the Tea Baggers

    Score one for the tea baggers. Those silly folks with their silly protests and their often silly signs and silly outfits and silly rants. Who’s silly now?

    The folks laughing at them? Or, in California, the elected leaders who now clearly have to answer to them?

    Leaders who pushed more taxes. And they said, “bag it.” Leaders who pushed for minimal spending cuts. And they said, “bag it.” Leaders who teed up their biggest doomsday and warned that if budget resolutions weren’t approved their state would go under. And they said, “risk it.”

    Not bad for a group of silly protesters who turned out to be not so silly, but so mad they not only woke up a state — I think they’re waking up a nation.

    I just wonder if they’re waking up the folks inside that dome who lead our nation? Somehow I kind of doubt it. Not when they continue to propose more spending with money we don’t have for programs a good many of us don’t want.

    Not when they scramble to find ways to pay for healthcare that isn’t thought out with ridiculous taxes on everything from soda to folks’ existing healthcare policies that are just — I don’t know — way out.

    All I’m saying is, you might want to figure it out. Figure out what just went down in California. Not only some politicians’ treasured budget wishes. Something else. Their careers.

    Those who bagged the baggers now bagged themselves. Take note, because the teapot’s boiling.”

    i’d say the “teabaggers” bagged themselves …

  306. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 10, 2014 at 12:36 pm #

    Cavuto? He’s no true Scotsman. Sounds foreign.

  307. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 10, 2014 at 12:57 pm #

    I personally have never used the term, but when I read it, I don’t think of the sexual connotation.

    As for the question of who uses the term, I thought one place to look was at the Tea Party Nation web site, where I found an article titled “Tea bagger” that was just this illustration:

    However, it appears that on that site in general, the term is understood as a sexual reference and denounced. I was encouraged to see one person commenting at Tea Party Nation saying that calling Obama a “subhuman mongrel” was just as bad (the phrase was used by Ted Nugent).

    While the article where the comment appeared is not particularly fair (it’s basically an “all liberals are evil” thing), it does make an important point about messaging.

    http://www.teapartynation.com/forum/topics/hell-freezes-over-agreeing-with-think-progress

    Commander Publius: No, it isn’t. The TEA Party has never, in any official way, given themselves the name “teabaggers.” Nor have the leadership of the TEA Party embraced the name.

  308. avatar
    Joey April 10, 2014 at 1:00 pm #

    Commander Publius: Well, in that you are certainly correct.

    I’ve always considered Obama Conspiracy Theories a place for civil discourse, though, unlike the birther web sites.

    Yes, and the incident is generally regarded as a sorry and regrettable one. It also destroyed two lives, the life of the man who died and the life of the man who lived; at least in the sense that it ended his great career, and his name has been forever tarnished with the incident.

    I’ll tell you what. If it’s generally agreed here that it’s acceptable to refer to members of the TEA Party as “teabaggers,” then those who wish to indulge themselves in vulgar slurs can have it. I’ll simply spend my time elsewhere from now on.

    I don’t mean this to appear snide but I don’t think you get to be the arbiter of what terminology other people use on this blog.
    There is no such thing as “general agreement;” its Doc C’s blog. If he doesn’t moderate a term into oblivion, it stands.
    I, for one, have never used the term that offends you and I don’t really care about its usage one way or the other. Some conservatives use insulting terms for liberals and some liberals use insulting terms for conservatives; and so it goes.

  309. avatar
    Commander Publius April 10, 2014 at 1:02 pm #

    Bonsall Obot: Every one I’ve seen, yes. If you have evidence of a tea party rally where the President was referred to as the President, never as a communist or as a socialist or as a homosexual or as a monkey or as a Kenyan, I shall be very glad to know of it…

    Referring to the President as a communist or as a socialist is simply a bit of political hyperbole, although by some it may be sincerely believed.

    In fact, it seems to me that providing universal health care, which has been a major priority of this President, might quite accurately be described as a form of “socialism.” There are entire parties in Europe that use the terms “social” and “socialist” with pride.

    As far as referring to the President as a homosexual or as a monkey or as a Kenyan, I’m not aware of any TEA Party rallies in which the President was referred to as such from the platform, or where it was the announced position of the organizers that the President was either a homosexual, a monkey, or a Kenyan. Unfortunately, birthers have made some inroads in some TEA Party circles, as in Maricopa County, AZ, so it’s possible we might be able to find an instance or two in which a birther gained a TEA Party pulpit. Still, as far as I can tell, birtherism does not seem to be a core TEA Party doctrine anywhere as far as I am aware. Nor does homophobia or racism.

    Are there a few homophobes and racists on the fringes of the TEA Party movement? I’m sure there are. But if one is of a different philosophy, one would do well to closely examine the fringes of one’s own movement or political side of the aisle before casting stones at others.

    As to the other: this place would be the poorer without you, but I’m not yet prepared to make concessions to the people who hate me, hate my President, and who, intentionally or otherwise, are the prime motivators in making things worse every day.

    All members of the TEA Party, and all who sympathize with their concerns about America’s finances, “hate you?” Really?

    And all such persons “hate your President?”

    Really?

    Because when you throw out such ugly slurs, you don’t just insult whatever “haters” there might be who would identify with the TEA Party in some way.

    You insult everyone who would identify with the TEA Party in some way.

    Everyone. Including a great many loyal, patriotic, decent, reasonable Americans who are simply concerned about America’s financial future.

    Is that really what you want to do?

  310. avatar
    Commander Publius April 10, 2014 at 1:11 pm #

    Joey: I don’t mean this to appear snide but I don’t think you get to be the arbiter of what terminology other people use on this blog.

    You’re entirely correct. I don’t get to be the arbiter of what terminology other people use here.

    However, if others are going to customarily use such insulting terms here to refer in a blanket way to loyal Americans who are concerned about our nation’s financial future, then I won’t be participating.

    I probably should be spending my time on other things than laughing at the birthers, anyway.

  311. avatar
    Commander Publius April 10, 2014 at 1:16 pm #

    Or, to put it another way:

    I wouldn’t participate in an online community where black people are routinely referred to as “n*ggers.”

    I wouldn’t participate in an online community where homosexuals are routinely referred to as “homos” or “faggots.”

    And I won’t participate in an online community where members of the TEA Party are routinely referred to as “teabaggers.”

  312. avatar
    Commander Publius April 10, 2014 at 1:18 pm #

    Nor can I imagine why anyone would defend their using the term “n*gger” or “faggot” or “teabagger.”

  313. avatar
    Jim April 10, 2014 at 1:21 pm #

    Interesting change of course for the thread…a bit OT though. How about we call them “Tea Leafers” instead?

  314. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 10, 2014 at 1:23 pm #

    But you identify with an organization, in meat space and online, that consistently refers to the President and his supporters in much, MUCH more insulting terms.

    Clean your own house, or at least show me one instance where you tried to ameliorate that behavior (whereas here you’re actually denying it or minimizing it.) Then I will reconsider.

  315. avatar
    Admiral Crusty April 10, 2014 at 1:29 pm #

    Sorry to interrupt the brawl going on here, Commander, but it’s time for an update on the Zullo Investigation Team (ZIT) Posse’s progress.

    I have people – and as far as you know, these people are not figments of my imagination – who are looking into every aspect of Mr. Zullo. His past, his present, and even his future. Folks, I’m afraid I can’t go into any detail right now, as this is an ongoing and very sensitive investimagination ™, but when you see what we have uncovered, you will, quite literally, crap your pants.

    That’s all I can say for now. But just be forewarned: you will not have time to dash to the water closet before you soil yourself, so before you read the jaw-dropping dope on Zullo that is going to be released within minutes, if not years, you best get yourself a pair of adult-sized diapers (Oops I Crapped My Pants is the official brand of the ZIT Posse). This isn’t going to only blow your mind, it’s going to blow your colon!!

  316. avatar
    bob April 10, 2014 at 1:45 pm #

    William was way more fun.

  317. avatar
    Publius April 10, 2014 at 1:47 pm #

    Jim, I think we are at an impasse.

    There are those who are attached to their right to use vulgar slurs to designate people they disagree with.

    I find their use of such slurs intolerable, just as I find people calling others “n*ggers” intolerable.

    However, they are unwilling to stop using those slurs. And even if I were to get them to agree not to do so, or if Dr. Conspiracy asked them not to use such slurs, they would probably feel cheated – as if I had somehow taken away from them some right of free speech.

    That being the case, I will sign off here and leave them to it.

    As for “cleaning my own house,” I have consistently opposed anyone, on any side of the aisle, who has used such slurs.

    Of course, I will admit that I myself have occasionally used such terms as “birfers,” and perhaps even “birfoons.” Still, it’s my belief that the context in which I’ve used those terms largely justifies them. There’s no claim that birthers have ever made that actually turned out to be true, and yet they keep making them. Although some of them may be acting out of ignorance, still they are universally false accusers and active promoters of lies… which is in itself an ugly act.

    As I’ve been writing this, Admiral Crusty has posted his update into the ZIT investimigation, which is as entertaining as it is shocking. I will take Admiral Crusty’s update as my last, enjoyable memory of the site.

    I hereby promote and appoint Admiral Crusty to assume command of the Investimigation. You now have full authorization to style yourself as either Commander Admiral Crusty, or as Admiral Commander Crusty, whichever you prefer. I hereby resign as Commander and leave the investimigation in your capable hands. I know you will do well.

  318. avatar
    slash2k April 10, 2014 at 1:51 pm #

    Commander Publius: Have you seen the video at Breitbart called “I’m proud to be a teabagger” ? http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2010/04/14/Im-Proud-to-Be-a-Tea-Bagger It was blazoned across their front page when it was new.

    Does your statement mean you won’t visit breitbart.com or other similar sites where members of the TEA Party proclaimed that they relished the term and used it to describe themselves?

  319. avatar
    JRC April 10, 2014 at 1:59 pm #

    William:
    Name one vital historical development in the world historically that met an exact deadline to the day?

    I would say that the election of a U.S. President has been vital for quite some time historically, especially in the development of the world. I would say that it has met the exact deadline to the day in every one of them.

  320. avatar
    bob April 10, 2014 at 2:00 pm #

    Comparing to “teabagger” to “nigger” is a false equivalence.

    It is kinda offensive, actually.

  321. avatar
    Joey April 10, 2014 at 2:30 pm #

    JRC: I would say that the election of a U.S. President has been vital for quite some time historically, especially in the development of the world.I would say that it has met the exact deadline to the day in every one of them.

    Not only to the day, but to the minute! The leader of the free world is inaugurated precisely at noon on January 20th in accordance with the 20th Amendment.

  322. avatar
    Admiral Crusty April 10, 2014 at 2:40 pm #

    My first official act as Acting Commander of the ZIT Posse is to refuse to accept your resignation. Only Supreme Commander Conspiracy can do that. You think he’s going to let you go? Sorry, sir, you and your contributions are much too valuable.

    Publius: I hereby resign as Commander and leave the investimigation in your capable hands.

  323. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 10, 2014 at 2:47 pm #

    bob:
    Comparing to “teabagger” to “nigger” is a false equivalence.

    It is kinda offensive, actually.

    This.

    First of two huge differences: all the words Publius falsely equated with teabaggers, and similar racist, homophobic, misogynist and disability-related insults, are and have been used to dominate, disenfranchise and dehumanize individuals and groups based solely on who they are, and how they were born. Teabaggers is used to to identify, and, yes, to insult someone, based on their behavior. Not the same thing, dishonest to equate them.

    The second big difference? Those words Publius falsely equated with teabaggers, and all those other racist, anti-Semitic, homophobic, misogynistic and disability-related slurs have far, FAR too often been the very last words that someone hears before she or he is murdered. “Teabaggers?” Not so much. The comparison is, indeed, inherently dishonest and inherently offensive.

  324. avatar
    BillTheCat April 10, 2014 at 2:51 pm #

    Excuse me if I don’t lose sleep over calling them teabaggers. Vile, racist, SEDITIONIST, LIARS who want to ruin the country, and we’re supposed to be civil? There’s nothing legitimate or civil about that group, and I will generalize them.

    Yeh, sorry, no. F that. The “nice” thing doesn’t work with those people.

    bob:
    Comparing to “teabagger” to “nigger” is a false equivalence.

    It is kinda offensive, actually.

    Yeh, that.

  325. avatar
    Rickey April 10, 2014 at 2:57 pm #

    aarrgghh:

    i’d say the “teabaggers” bagged themselves …

    This appears to have been the first reference to “teabagging”:

    http://washingtonindependent.com/31868/scenes-from-the-new-american-tea-party

    My recollection is that most people were not aware of the sexual innuendo (I had never heard it before) until there were jokes being made about it.

  326. avatar
    JoZeppy April 10, 2014 at 3:46 pm #

    Commander Publius: As far as referring to the President as a homosexual or as a monkey or as a Kenyan, I’m not aware of any TEA Party rallies in which the President was referred to as such from the platform, or where it was the announced position of the organizers that the President was either a homosexual, a monkey, or a Kenyan. Unfortunately, birthers have made some inroads in some TEA Party circles, as in Maricopa County, AZ, so it’s possible we might be able to find an instance or two in which a birther gained a TEA Party pulpit. Still, as far as I can tell, birtherism does not seem to be a core TEA Party doctrine anywhere as far as I am aware. Nor does homophobia or racism.

    http://cdn.crooksandliars.com/files/uploads/2010/04/tea_party_white_71a47.JPG

    http://www.buzztwang.com/2010/08/glenn-beck-tea-party-leave-racist-signs-home/
    http://ourlegaci.com/2011/04/19/outrage-over-obama-chimpanzee-email-sent-by-republicantea-party-official/

    Commander Publius: Nor can I imagine why anyone would defend their using the term “n*gger” or “faggot” or “teabagger.”

    First off, there is no comparison between the n-bomb and faggot and “teabagger.” Teabagger is intended to mock tea party folks while the others are simlply meant to convey hate and use to intimidate. Additionally, many of the teaparty folks, out of their own ignorance have used the term teabagger.

    http://brgulker.wordpress.com/2009/12/09/teabagging-for-jesus/

    Using teabagger is probably on par as many on the right using “democrat party.”

  327. avatar
    JRC April 10, 2014 at 3:56 pm #

    I’ll just say that most people don’t lose any sleep over insulting anyone they disagree with. Does it make it right because people don’t lose any sleep?
    Are there false equivalence examples out there, yeah. I was part of the Tea party movement before it was taken over by the Koch brothers and Republicans. It wasn’t until then that they called themselves “Teabaggers” Koch and them are probably the ultimate in “teabagging” the U.S. political system. Behavior is a slippery slope, it’s like giving the okay to harass and insult a geek because he studies hard, or a shy person because they are “shy”. Insults are insults and shouldn’t be rationalize. This insult is worse, so I’m insulted you even mentioned another insult that is an insult, but not as bad as what I consider really insulting.

  328. avatar
    JRC April 10, 2014 at 4:03 pm #

    Joey: Not only to the day, but to the minute! The leader of the free world is inaugurated precisely at noon on January 20th in accordance with the 20th Amendment.

    And even more proof for William to digest.

  329. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 10, 2014 at 4:30 pm #

    JRC:

    This insult is worse, so I’m insulted you even mentioned another insult that is an insult, but not as bad as what I consider really insulting.

    Except that this, in itself, is a false equivalence. We’re talking about the difference between a word that, at worst, can be characterized as puerile, vulgar, immature, (and I’ll own that behavior,) and words that are used to actually threaten, harass and oppress people. It’s not just a matter of degree, it’s very different behavior with very different intent, producing very different results.

  330. avatar
    RanTalbott April 10, 2014 at 4:45 pm #

    Publius: I find their use of such slurs intolerable, just as I find people calling others “n*ggers” intolerable.

    Well, no, you don’t, as you admit later in your post: if you really found it “intolerable”, you’d never use them.

    I agree with the others who’ve said that there is a fundamental difference between “slurs” that are intended to mock and incite disdain for ridiculous behavior, and those intended to promote hatred and incite violence based on who the target is. The former are sometimes “childish” or “counterproductive” when you’re trying to promote a civil debate, but sometimes not, when the object of the insult is refusing to engage in real debate, and it’s time to point that out. The latter are evil, because their use is usually intended to preclude the rational discourse that would reveal the ridiculousness of the speaker’s position.

    Bonsall expressed it eloquently: you’re never going to see anyone stir up a mob by yelling “Hang the teabagger!”, but you will see people people using the term to dismiss the blatherings of people who are wasting time and getting in the way of serious debate.

    And the use of “teabagger” is particularly apt, because it exemplifies their frequent failure to check their facts before mouthing off.

    You can make a reasonable argument that many people tend to jump to the use of dismissive insults too quickly, and should be discouraged from doing so. But saying they’re “intolerable” is just ridiculous.

  331. avatar
    sfjeff April 10, 2014 at 4:53 pm #

    Rickey: This appears to have been the first reference to “teabagging”:

    http://washingtonindependent.com/31868/scenes-from-the-new-american-tea-party

    My recollection is that most people were not aware of the sexual innuendo (I had never heard it before) until there were jokes being made about it.

    I certainly had never heard of the term until I heard the snickering about Tea Party members using the term, and went online to find out what the snickering was about.

    I don’t call them Tea Baggers and I don’t really think it is a big deal.

    But you know what?

    If someone objects to the term- and finds it offensive- there really is no reason to continue to use it.

    Just because my Italian friends might call each other Wops, doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t find it offensive if I call them a wop.

    We don’t need to call them Tea Baggers- certainly not any shorter a term than Tea Partier. So why not stop?

  332. avatar
    gorefan April 10, 2014 at 4:56 pm #

    OT I wonder if you have to speak Bocce?

    http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/this-tower-pulls-drinking-water-out-of-thin-air-180950399/

  333. avatar
    JRC April 10, 2014 at 5:02 pm #

    Bonsall Obot: Except that this, in itself, is a false equivalence. We’re talking about the difference between a word that, at worst, can be characterized as puerile, vulgar, immature, (and I’ll own that behavior,) and words that are used to actually threaten, harass and oppress people. It’s not just a matter of degree, it’s very different behavior with very different intent, producing very different results.

    As I stated we can talk about false equivalence all day long…..your insult is worse than mine. Yes there is a false equivalence. And yes people have been assaulted and/or murder for being Christian in other countries. Not racists, just trying to spread the word. Is that also false equivalence?

  334. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 10, 2014 at 5:20 pm #

    sfjeff:

    If someone objects to the term- and finds it offensive- there really is no reason to continue to use it. …

    We don’t need to call them Tea Baggers- certainly not any shorter a term than Tea Partier. So why not stop?

    Capital idea. I’m all for civil discourse.

    As soon as they demonstrate some respect for the President.

    Look, at the risk of sounding like someone on the playground, they started it. If they want respect, all they have to do is demonstrate some.

  335. avatar
    JRC April 10, 2014 at 5:23 pm #

    Bonsall Obot: Except that this, in itself, is a false equivalence. We’re talking about the difference between a word that, at worst, can be characterized as puerile, vulgar, immature, (and I’ll own that behavior,) and words that are used to actually threaten, harass and oppress people. It’s not just a matter of degree, it’s very different behavior with very different intent, producing very different results.

    Have you ever used the words “Nazi” with any post you’ve used about anything political? Just curious. Own it. False Equivalence would you agree? Godwin’s Law. If you have never done that then I apologize. But seen it from both sides. Even Dr. C has had the video of Hitler in the Bunker. But seen Zullites copying of video of Obot with that same video with different caption recently.

  336. avatar
    JRC April 10, 2014 at 5:27 pm #

    Bonsall Obot: Capital idea. I’m all for civil discourse.

    As soon as they demonstrate some respect for the President.

    Look, at the risk of sounding like someone on the playground, they started it. If they want respect, all they have to do is demonstrate some.

    If you are talking to birthers…then good luck….I’m not a birther, so demonstrate some.

  337. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 10, 2014 at 5:38 pm #

    Bonsall Obot: Look, at the risk of sounding like someone on the playground, they started it. If they want respect, all they have to do is demonstrate some.

    Thank you for mentioning the playground. As I recall that’s where I first learned that two wrongs don’t make a right. It didn’t work in second grade and it shouldn’t work here.

  338. avatar
    Arthur April 10, 2014 at 5:40 pm #

    JRC: Have you ever used the words “Nazi” with any post you’ve used about anything political?

    I probably have. For example, when a politician or someone in the media attempts to malign an entire group, condemning them as being not just wrong, but evil, then it’s appropriate to point out that this was a tactic the Nazis used to dehumanize Jews. Not all comparisons made to Nazis qualify as a false equivalence.

  339. avatar
    JRC April 10, 2014 at 5:48 pm #

    Arthur: I probably have. For example, when a politician or someone in the media attempts to malign an entire group, condemning them as being not just wrong, but evil, then it’s appropriate to point out that this was a tactic the Nazis used to dehumanize Jews. Not all comparisons made to Nazis qualify as a false equivalence.

    Well actually it is. Someone speaking badly (being racist, etc) does not equate to exterminating those people which the Nazis did. Anyway, you never brought up Nazis when the Patriot Act passed? Anything a conservative passed, you never tried to equate it with the Nazis?

  340. avatar
    JRC April 10, 2014 at 5:55 pm #

    I hate the faux outrage….reminds me of The Truth.

  341. avatar
    RanTalbott April 10, 2014 at 6:11 pm #

    sfjeff: If someone objects to the term- and finds it offensive- there really is no reason to continue to use it.

    Actually, the fact that people object can be the reason for continuing to use it.

    People who cling to ridiculous beliefs, or persist in ridiculous behavior, should be ridiculed. It’s an important mechanism that society uses to protect itself from descending into anarchy or idiocracy. And ridiculous people will usually, at least for a while, object to being called “ridiculous”. But doing so is often the only thing that brings them around to sanity.

    The process is often used inappropriately, but it’s still better (at least arguably) than tarring-and-feathering or burning at the stake.

  342. avatar
    Notorial Dissent April 10, 2014 at 6:17 pm #

    The absolute last place in the entire universe the Klown Kommandant or Shurf Joe want to be is in court, any real court, in front of a judge, and worse, an attorney who can ask them all the embarrassing questions they don’t have answers to, or want to have to answer publicly. For the simple reason that as soon as they were on the stand the fact that they had nothin”, and did nothin’ for all this time would become public knowledge and legal fact. I think perjury and contempt of court charges would not be something they would want to deal with.

    Bonsall Obot: Zullo will never get close to a courtroom with whatever he produces; there’s no money in that course of action. It’s all about donations, book sales and the free pretend-cop accoutrements he gets from Shurf Joke.

    Doc, FWIW, I’ve always thought Gallups reminded me of the fuzzy eared thing/pet that was always sucking up to Jabba the Hut.

  343. avatar
    RanTalbott April 10, 2014 at 6:26 pm #

    Notorial Dissent: The absolute last place in the entire universe the Klown Kommandant or Shurf Joe want to be is in court, any real court

    And they know they’ll never have to worry about getting there. At least, not on the prosecution/plaintiff side of the aisle: prosecutorial due diligence, or discovery, will prevent that (and already has, in the case of their county attorney).

    But I’m still hoping they’ll get their chance in court. At the defense table, trying to prove that their fake “evidence” wasn’t part of a deliberate con.

  344. avatar
    Crustacean April 10, 2014 at 6:27 pm #

    Notorial Dissent: Doc, FWIW, I’ve always thought Gallups reminded me of the fuzzy eared thing/pet that was always sucking up to Jabba the Hut.

    Great minds think alike. :)

    Crustacean: I’d nominate the character Salacious Crumb, Jabba’s pet monkey-lizard, of whom it has been written:
    “To its intelligence it seems to be similar to a parrot it can respond seemingly intelligently but is limited in what it actually understands. It can know how to laugh and mimic others but does not seem to create its own ideas.”
    Sounds like Carl to me.

  345. avatar
    Matt April 10, 2014 at 7:30 pm #

    I just want to know which birther is Jar Jar……Orly?

  346. avatar
    Keith April 10, 2014 at 8:22 pm #

    Joey: What type of “proof” do you require?

    Simply someone, anyone, in a position to know confirming the story. McCain’s campaign refused to acknowledge the event ever took place. They didn’t deny it, but they wouldn’t confirm it either.

    Don’t misunderstand me; I don’t doubt that it occurred, at least now that my mistaken belief that he got the birth location wrong was corrected. I’m only saying that dozens of people have seen Obama’s BC and back up each other’s story, and millions have seen the online image. One person claims to have seen McCain’s BC and zero have seen the online image (because there isn’t one). The State of Hawai’i has confirmed the information on the Obama’s published BC is correct, many times. No one has made such an official verification for McCain’s BC.

    Yet Obama’s details continue to be doubted and McCain’s don’t.

  347. avatar
    Rickey April 10, 2014 at 8:30 pm #

    sfjeff:

    We don’t need to call them Tea Baggers- certainly not any shorter a term than Tea Partier. So why not stop?

    I agree with you. On the rare occasions when I speak of them, I call them Tea Partiers. I was just pointing out that it appears that the first person to make a sign about “teabagging” was a Freeper.

  348. avatar
    Rickey April 10, 2014 at 8:35 pm #

    JRC: Well actually it is. Someone speaking badly (being racist, etc) does not equate to exterminating those people which the Nazis did.Anyway, you never brought up Nazis when the Patriot Act passed?Anything a conservative passed, you never tried to equate it with the Nazis?

    I could be mistaken, but I don’t recall seeing any posters which depict George W. Bush this way:

    http://www.sadlyno.com/wordpress/uploads/2009/04/obamahitler1.bmp

  349. avatar
    Keith April 10, 2014 at 8:46 pm #

    Commander Publius: In fact, it seems to me that providing universal health care, which has been a major priority of this President, might quite accurately be described as a form of “socialism.”

    Except of course, that the ACA is, in fact, not providing universal health care.

    It is regulating the Health Care Insurance Industry. It is ensuring that the product offered to the public is “fit for purpose” and is subsidizing the Insurance Industry to ensure that their product is affordable. In the process it is delivering more paying customers to Insurance companies and more choice to those customers (and yes, even one choice is more than many have ever had).

    That is not socialism in any way shape or form. It is pure American Capitalism, from beginning to end (OK, Medicare improvements maybe not so much).

    It is exactly how the railway industry was developed in America.
    It is exactly how the oil industry was developed in America.
    It is exactly how the Timber industry was developed in America.
    It is exactly how the Modern Agriculture Industry was developed in America.
    It is exactly how the Electronics Industry was developed in America.

  350. avatar
    Rickey April 10, 2014 at 8:48 pm #

    Keith: Simply someone, anyone, in a position to know confirming the story. McCain’s campaign refused to acknowledge the event ever took place. They didn’t deny it, but they wouldn’t confirm it either.

    Don’t misunderstand me; I don’t doubt that it occurred, at least now that my mistaken belief that he got the birth location wrong was corrected. I’m only saying that dozens of people have seen Obama’s BC and back up each other’s story, and millions have seen the online image. One person claims to have seen McCain’s BC and zero have seen the online image (because there isn’t one). The State of Hawai’i has confirmed the information on the Obama’s published BC is correct, many times. No one has made such an official verification for McCain’s BC.

    Yet Obama’s details continue to be doubted and McCain’s don’t.

    My personal opinion – for which I have no evidence – is that McCain’s campaign wanted to avoid any issue which would call more attention to his age.

    That said, the story of his birth rings true. There is a contemporaneous newspaper account of his birth and his mother says that he was born at the Coco Solo submarine base.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/mccain_hollander_041708.pdf

  351. avatar
    RanTalbott April 10, 2014 at 9:34 pm #

    Keith: It is pure American Capitalism, from beginning to end (OK, Medicare improvements maybe not so much).

    Also “not so much” for the Medicaid expansion and premium subsidies.

    But it is like all those other industries (except for electronics*), in that they were developed with a heapin’ helpin’ of “socialism”: land grants, easements, tax breaks, below-market lease rates, etc.

    Now, since you capitalized it, you could argue that it was pure “American Capitalism” (i.e., with some subsidies and regulation that distort the market somewhat), but it’s not what ideologues would call “pure capitalism”.

    *The electronics industry benefitted some from R&D tax credits and similar tax breaks, but most of its “socialist” benefit came from the government being willing to buy stuff for the military and the Space Race when it was still on the early, high end of the Moore’s Law price curve. That certainly accelerated the pace of development compared to what it would’ve been in a pure “free market”, but wasn’t the sine qua non it was for some others.

  352. avatar
    Keith April 10, 2014 at 9:58 pm #

    RanTalbott: Also “not so much” for the Medicaid expansion and premium subsidies.

    Yes, I was imprecise, but I meant to include that.

    Now, since you capitalized it, you could argue that it was pure “American Capitalism” (i.e., with some subsidies and regulation that distort the market somewhat), but it’s not what ideologues would call “pure capitalism”.

    Yes, I expressly called it “American Capitalism”. It is the way that Capitalism works in America since at least the early 19th century. Perhaps another description could be “Corporate Socialism”.

    (except for electronics*)…

    *The electronics industry benefitted some from R&D tax credits and similar tax breaks, but most of its “socialist” benefit came from the government being willing to buy stuff for the military and the Space Race when it was still on the early, high end of the Moore’s Law price curve. That certainly accelerated the pace of development compared to what it would’ve been in a pure “free market”, but wasn’t the sine qua non it was for some others.

    I disagree entirely.

    The ‘moon race’ was not about landing men on the moon, or even beating the Soviets. It was about developing American technology, pure and simple. Sputnik demonstrated that the so-called ‘pure “free market”‘ was allowing American technology to fall behind. The space race was a mechanism for driving technological advance and was in exactly the same spirit as the development of the transcontinental railway.

  353. avatar
    roald April 10, 2014 at 11:27 pm #

    Commander Publius: It is also a historical reference to the famous Boston Tea Party, which was all a matter involving… gee, guess what? Taxation.

    Hi Commander. Sorry about taking so long to bring this up. I had to work late tonight. You are correct that the Boston Tea Party was about taxation. You may not be aware of the specifics. What was being protested was the corporate welfare that gave a tax break to a multinational corporation.

    http://www.historynet.com/debunking-boston-tea-party-myths.htm

    http://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2009/04/real-boston-tea-party-was-against-wal-mart-1770s

    http://totallyhistory.com/the-boston-tea-party/

  354. avatar
    bgansel9 April 10, 2014 at 11:38 pm #

    Admiral Crusty: so before you read the jaw-dropping dope on Zullo that is going to be released within minutes, if not years…

    You have this down. Great imitation.

  355. avatar
    bgansel9 April 10, 2014 at 11:49 pm #

    Commander Publius: There’s no “retroactively defining” the TEA Party here. Do you not know what “TEA Party” stands for? The term “TEA” stands for “Taxed Enough Already.” That’s what it stood for at the beginning, and that’s what it has stood for for the entire history of the TEA Party.

    They didn’t seem to be all that concerned with taxation at their later rallies. They were more concerned with calling Obama and his wife “Moochelle” every name in the book. I’m sorry, but Teabaggers gave themselves the name Teabaggers (without knowing of the sexual connotation) and then say it’s wrong to use a derogatory name against them while they complain about “Obummer” and his “Obots” every minute of every hour of every day. I’m not buying it!

  356. avatar
    justlw April 11, 2014 at 12:12 am #

    Commander Publius: The basic principle of the TEA Party is that Americans have been Taxed Enough Already.

    That’s it.

    A principle that they suddenly cottoned to a whole two weeks after Obama took office and before he had taken any action on taxes whatsoever, despite 8 years of utter fiscal irresponsibility from the previous administration.

    I’m thinking there may be an underlying basic principle that is not completely explained by “Taxed Enough Already.”

  357. avatar
    justlw April 11, 2014 at 12:18 am #

    Commander Publius: It is also a historical reference to the famous Boston Tea Party, which was all a matter involving… gee, guess what? Taxation.

    I highly recommend The Whites of Their Eyes by Jill Lepore. She goes through the principles, tenets and avowed purposes of the Tea Party and just how they compare themselves in their own words to the Founding Fathers, as contrasted by the actual activities and beliefs of the Revolutionary Era.

  358. avatar
    justlw April 11, 2014 at 12:23 am #

    Commander Publius: You have documentation of this? At “every” rally, and “every” website “associated” with the TEA Party?

    I can only speak for the two Tea Party rallies I’ve personally attended. The first was in April 2009 — the first “Tea Party” day — and was just a complete ideological and scatalogical mess. It was apparently the Ground Zero rally for my area, and it was held two blocks from my house; how could I pass it up? I have photos; I’d post them here if I could.

    The second rally was held a year later, and the word had clearly gone out: ixnay on the acism-ray. And there were still “Obama witchdoctor” posters. Just not in quite so much glorious profusion.

  359. avatar
    Bovril April 11, 2014 at 6:26 am #

    The Commander (h’mmmmm Zullo uses that same title…..) seems to have forgotten or ignores a rather fundamental issue.

    The original “TEA” party (well mass grouping) WAS in point of fact a broad church of disaffected, mostly (but not exclusively) Republican leaning, mostly middle class, mostly middle aged folks.

    Then the hard right and loons in the tricorn hats with the screams about NO SOCIALISM, NO SOCIALIST HEALTHCARE etc” moved in and via their insane rantings drove the majority of these folks out.

    The current mob are Teabaggers, almost exclusively White, Right, Older and Bigotted.

    They still scream about ebil socialist heathcare etc at the same moment as they scream about how no one can be seen to be touching their own socialised healthcare or other socialised societal benefits.

    The platform rants about “small government” but refuses to accept what that entails, demnand the military be expanded but don’t want to pay for it, want to pay lower taxes (which they ALREADY ARE DOING) but demand that their pet hobby horses be left alone and not be reviewed.

    A more appropriate metaphor would be “dog in a manger”, so, Teabagger, Delusional Dogs, pick your preference.

  360. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater April 11, 2014 at 8:18 am #

    Both times that President Obama was in town a “tea party group” showed up. Small group about 20 the signs ranged from calling Obama a socialist, saying that he should be sent back to africa and a birther sign asking where he was on August 4th 1961. At the last rally I saw a group chanting chick-fil-a. It was surreal

  361. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 11, 2014 at 8:25 am #

    It’s rank dishonesty to claim those people are the outliers; they’re the base. The tea party wouldn’t exist without them.

  362. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) April 11, 2014 at 8:54 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: At the last rally I saw a group chanting chick-fil-a. It was surreal

    It would be fun to imagine a parallel US where only current anti-gay companies exist. I bet that would be loonier than most dystopian literature. ;)

  363. avatar
    justlw April 11, 2014 at 9:29 am #

    Rickey: I don’t recall seeing any posters which depict George W. Bush this way:

    Oh, yeah: we’ve got a guy who sets up camp in front of our post office every morning with a poster of Obama with a Charlie Chaplin mustache and a sign saying something like “STOP HERE AND HELP IMPEACH OBAMA” .

    I’ve been tempted to pull over and brightly chirp, “Right! Let’s get cracking! So… tell me about the high crimes and/or misdemeanors!” and see where we go from there. But I know it ultimately wouldn’t be a satisfying experience for either of us.

    I’ve been assuming he’s a LaRouche-ite rather than a Tea Partier, since they seem to most often be the ones with the Chaplin fetish. I might need to ask him at least that someday.

  364. avatar
    JRC April 11, 2014 at 12:47 pm #

    Rickey: I could be mistaken, but I don’t recall seeing any posters which depict George W. Bush this way:

    http://www.sadlyno.com/wordpress/uploads/2009/04/obamahitler1.bmp

    Just type Bush Hilter into Google and look at images. You might see a couple or more.

  365. avatar
    Rickey April 11, 2014 at 1:15 pm #

    JRC: Just type Bush Hilter into Google and look at images.You might see a couple or more.

    As I said, I could be mistaken. Speaking for myself, I have never conflated Bush with Hitler.

    Hopefully we can all agree that Hitler comparisons should be out of bounds, although I suspect that it won’t be long before we see more of this:

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cPOj1MEc174/TvS36V-uu0I/AAAAAAAAQ9o/uCh4Wu6bbnw/s400/hitlary%252520hitler.jpg

  366. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 11, 2014 at 1:27 pm #

    The first corollary to Godwin’s Law, of course, is the more important aspect – that invoking Hitler or Nazis inappropriately means you have conceded the argument.

  367. avatar
    Rickey April 11, 2014 at 2:12 pm #

    gorefan:

    April 8, 2014

    Zullo:“There will be an announcement in the future, in the very near future.”

    “Father Time” at Birther Report believes that by April 15 it will be announced when the universe-shattering information will be released. Or something like that.

    We also have been told by ones leaking inside information at the end of March in weeks so by the 15th of April we would hit that timeline. We are close and by next week at this time I believe we will know the date.

  368. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 11, 2014 at 2:38 pm #

    So, anonymous poster, citing anonymous source, says by an uncertain date in the near future, we’ll be given… another uncertain date in the near future?

    Sounds legit.

  369. avatar
    Steve April 11, 2014 at 2:46 pm #

    justlw: I’ve been assuming he’s a LaRouche-ite rather than a Tea Partier, since they seem to most often be the ones with the Chaplin fetish. I might need to ask him at least that someday.

    My first run-in with LaRoche-ites was about 22 years ago, when I was leaving the RMV after registering my car.
    I knew they were clueless because they asked for a donation, assuming I actually had money left in my pocket after leaving the RMV.

  370. avatar
    Arthur April 11, 2014 at 2:59 pm #

    JRC: Well actually it is. Someone speaking badly (being racist, etc) does not equate to exterminating those people which the Nazis did.

    You are making unethical arguments by trying to say I said something I never did.

    Your original question was, “Have you ever used the words ‘Nazi’ with any post you’ve used about anything political?” I said that I had. However, I didn’t compare someone to the Nazis; rather, I described comparing dehumanizing techniques that the Nazis used with contemporary attempts to portray groups of people as inherently evil. I find that there is a difference between calling someone a Nazi and pointing out that he/she is doing something the Nazis are notorious for. Moreover, in pointing out similarities between contemporary examples of group blaming with the propaganda efforts of the Nazis, I have never accused anyone of being guilty of extermination. As someone who has taught two university courses that dealt with the propaganda of Nazi Germany (“Language; Its Power and Abuse” and “History of the Holocaust”–a team-taught course in which I lectured on Nazi propaganda) I am very cautious about the words I use to describe people I disagree with.

    You are conflating things and accusing me of saying things I didn’t say.

  371. avatar
    Sho April 11, 2014 at 3:56 pm #

    RE: ” I invoke a science fantasy movie image because someone must truly be willing to believe in fantasy to continue to support Zullo as the “March reveal” becomes the midterm election reveal, another in a long line of excuses for doing nothing… I suppose some might find the latest delay from Zullo as absurd and laughable, like the “Rocky 5,000” sequel gag in Spaceballs ”

    LOL, how do you know he’s “done nothing” (?)… ironically, when he finally does make a public statement about their findings.. you’ll be ready to go with a list of jabs and accusations of lying, and various excuses for Obama, so what does it matter whether he’s “done” something or not? … here’s a real Sci-Fi comparison: there’s a new Star Wars movie in development.. a sequel to Return of the Jedi. It was originally scheduled to be released next May.. but now it’s been pushed back to December 2015. Does that mean they’re doing nothing? ;-) Zullo set a target date of March.. there was never any specific date mentioned… apparently new information was uncovered and needs to be vetted… could it turn out to be complete BS ? lol, maybe… but considering that Zullo is a veteran law enforcement professional who has worked as a private investigator.. there’s also a 50% chance that he really does have some damning info on Obama… and I think that scares the hell out of the people who just want to treat the whole thing as a joke…. we should find out soon what the hoopla is all about…

  372. avatar
    Suranis April 11, 2014 at 4:23 pm #

    Firstly, The Boston Tea Party was not about taxation as such. It was about Taxation WITHOUT REPRESENTATION. They were objecting to the British Parliament leveling taxes on a country that had no elected representatives in Parliament to put forward their case.

    I’ve read your decleration if Independence. Aloud to a bunch of Americans in an online computergame. Its a beautiful document, and it makes damn clear that bieng taxes wasnt even close to what they were objecting to.

    Not to mention the fact that President Washington sent in the army to deal with anti-taxation protestors after independance.

    Finally, your tax rates right now are the lowest they have ever been. They are certainly lower than they are here with its top percentage of 41%, for all income over E40,000. Oddly enough they manage to survive quite well despite bieng taxed far more than your “taxed enough already” And in the 50s allegedly the Time of greatest prosperity in the US, Your top tax rate was in the 80% range. Reagan slashed it to 56%. maybe you shoudl advocate raising it to the levels Reagan had? That would certainly destroy the deficit.

    See, not an insult in the whole thing despite me showing how the TEA party platform is full of Bull. “Taxed Enough Already” was just a slogan used to co-opt a national movement of people who were meeting in small groups over cups of tea to protest Bush’s irresponsible Cutting tax and High spending on credit tax policies. That was the Original meaning of the TEA party, that people met in tea parties. One of them was shown in Micheal Moore’s Fahrenheit 9/11. FOX and the Kochs took it and turned it right around into a right wing mass movement.

    ,

    Commander Publius: It is also a historical reference to the famous Boston Tea Party, which was all a matter involving… gee, guess what? Taxation.

    The Affordable Care Act is by no means a universal Health care system. Not even close. It was a Medical Insurance Reform Bill, and was originally proposed as a “conservative” ALTERNATIVE to Universal Health Care. He might have said on occasion that he would have preferred a single payer system, but single payer is not a universal health care system either, and nevertheless he fought for the ACA as he knew single payer would not pass. Holy Joe Leiberman killed it stone dead.

    Barack Obama would be pretty comfy in the UK’s Conservative party and Ireland’s center right pro business party, Fina Gael. Calling him a socialist is just plain inaccurate, and calling him a communist is stupid.

    In fact, it seems to me that providing universal health care, which has been a major priority of this President, might quite accurately be described as a form of “socialism.” There are entire parties in Europe that use the terms “social” and “socialist” with pride.

  373. avatar
    RanTalbott April 11, 2014 at 4:24 pm #

    Bonsall Obot: So, anonymous poster, citing anonymous source, says by an uncertain date in the near future, we’ll be given… another uncertain date in the near future?

    I’m reminded of a time when I was working for an equipment manufacturer, at the weekly project status review meeting.
    One manager of a large project that had suffered many significant slippages, was reluctant to come up with yet another target that was likely to be missed.

    Engineering VP: Well, then, how about a date for a date?

    Manager[with much more omitted hemming and hawing]: We’re still not sure why subassembly X is unreliable. Until we figure that out, we can’t give you a good estimate for completion. And we don’t understand the the problem well enough to even estimate how long it’s going to take to identify it.

    Engineering VP [exasperated]: Okay. How about giving us a date for an excuse?

  374. avatar
    bgansel9 April 11, 2014 at 4:55 pm #

    Suranis: our top tax rate was in the 80% range. Reagan slashed it to 56%. maybe you shoudl advocate raising it to the levels Reagan had? That would certainly destroy the deficit.

    Thanks for pointing that out. Yes, Teabaggers have no idea how good they have it.

    As for Taxation Without Representation, we Americans like to take short cuts on everything, so saying it’s about taxation doesn’t necessarily mean we are not talking about taxation without representation. We Americans are a lazy lot. That said, surely not everyone knows that the Boston Tea Party was about taxation without representation, although it is too much to ask that they learn it, as we cannot make them do anything they don’t want to do. They say they live by the Constitution, so I assume they have read it. Not my job to make sure they understand it. Good on you for bringing that up also, and hopefully some of them will see it. Thanks again.

  375. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 11, 2014 at 5:08 pm #

    Birthers have short memories. March is hardly the first broken promise from Zullo, but what is much more important is that he was caught red-handed lying and fabricating evidence. His volunteer non-professional experts have been proven to be inept and pathetically wrong.

    You call Zullo a “a veteran law enforcement professional” even though all we really know is that he had some unspecified job in Demarest, New Jersey decades ago. His professional experience in minimal, and there’s no evidence he was a private detective. The only job we know for sure that Zullo had was selling cars.

    If there were actually some damning evidence on Obama, a cipher like Mike Zullo is the last one capable of finding it.

    Sho: LOL, how do you know he’s “done nothing” (?)… ironically, when he finally does make a public statement about their findings.. you’ll be ready to go with a list of jabs and accusations of lying, and various excuses for Obama, so what does it matter whether he’s “done” something or not? … here’s a real Sci-Fi comparison: there’s a new Star Wars movie in development.. a sequel to Return of the Jedi. It was originally scheduled to be released next May.. but now it’s been pushed back to December 2015. Does that mean they’re doing nothing? ;-) Zullo set a target date of March.. there was never any specific date mentioned… apparently new information was uncovered and needs to be vetted… could it turn out to be complete BS ? lol, maybe… but considering that Zullo is a veteran law enforcement professional who has worked as a private investigator.. there’s also a 50% chance that he really does have some damning info on Obama… and I think that scares the hell out of the people who just want to treat the whole thing as a joke…. we should find out soon what the hoopla is all about…

  376. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 11, 2014 at 5:15 pm #

    So Mr. Math, how did you calculate that 50% number. Did you pull it out of your deluded birther [redacted]?

    You’re totally deluded. No one but birthers take Mike Zullo seriously, and no one is afraid of anything he might say.

    Sho: there’s also a 50% chance that he really does have some damning info on Obama… and I think that scares the hell out of the people who just want to treat the whole thing as a joke…. we should find out soon what the hoopla is all about…

  377. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 11, 2014 at 5:15 pm #

    In Nate Silver’s book The Signal and the Noise he describes a Bayesian interpretation of probability as the willingness to make a bet at those odds. How much money are you willing to bet that Latrine Marshall Zullo has some “damning info” on President Obama? Because at the 50/50 odds you gave, I would be willing to bet every dime I could get my hands on that there’s no “there” there.

    Sho: there’s also a 50% chance that he really does have some damning info on Obama…

  378. avatar
    Majority Will April 11, 2014 at 5:20 pm #

    Grand Commander Zullo couldn’t pour water out of a boot with the instructions printed on the bottom of the heel.

  379. avatar
    RanTalbott April 11, 2014 at 5:22 pm #

    Sho: but considering that Zullo is a veteran law enforcement professional who has worked as a private investigator.. there’s also a 50% chance that he really does have some damning info on Obama

    Actually, no: we can tell from his track record that the real “chance” is very close to zero. Every piece of what he’s claimed to be “damning info on Obama” has turned out to be bogus. Sometimes through incompetence, sometimes through dishonesty.

    Sho: and I think that scares the hell out of the people who just want to treat the whole thing as a joke

    The only “scary” possibility is that it’ll turn out to be something like the “forged” PDF, which requires an average level of intelligence to recognize as BS. Which would mean that it’ll be nearly impossible to explain to the birfers that they’re (still) loons for believing it.

    That would add some annoyance to our amusement.

  380. avatar
    Majority Will April 11, 2014 at 5:26 pm #

    “we should find out (ANY) soon what (DAY) the hoopla is (NOW) all about…”

    Read within the lines.

  381. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 11, 2014 at 5:27 pm #

    Slartibartfast:
    In Nate Silver’s book The Signal and the Noise he describes a Bayesian interpretation of probability as the willingness to make a bet at those odds.How much money are you willing to bet that Latrine Marshall Zullo has some “damning info” on President Obama?Because at the 50/50 odds you gave, I would be willing to bet every dime I could get my hands on that there’s no “there” there.

    I was just about to say, let’s put some money on it. Any amount. At those odds, I’ll get everyone I know to mortgage their homes,

    If Birfers were really sure, they’d put up. We already know they can’t shut up.

    ETA: And it’s never enough for them to make ominous statements about what’s coming for the President… they have to imply that people who post on the Internet are going to be punished as well.

    Does that really work? Do they believe it? Do they even manage to convince each other?

  382. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 11, 2014 at 5:31 pm #

    Actually, in 1950-51 income over $200,000 was taxed at 91% and in 1952-53 at 92%. In 1954-59 the top rate was 91%.

    http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/190499803

    Suranis: And in the 50s allegedly the Time of greatest prosperity in the US, Your top tax rate was in the 80% range. Reagan slashed it to 56%. maybe you should advocate raising it to the levels Reagan had? That would certainly destroy the deficit.

  383. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 11, 2014 at 5:33 pm #

    Egad! The Lego set pictured in the article costs almost $400!

  384. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 11, 2014 at 5:40 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Actually, in 1950-51 income over $200,000 was taxed at 91% and in 1952-53 at 92%. In 1954-59 the top rate was 91%.

    http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/190499803

    A time in America otherwise known as “the good old days.”

    These days?

    “We have a surplus? Well, clearly, taxes are too high. Cut taxes!”

    “We have a deficit? Well, clearly, we need to cut taxes and stimulate the job creators!”

    If your answer to every question is the same thing, you don’t need to be asked anything at all.

    But we certainly have some insight on why taxes must be cut, no matter what, and from a highly-placed Republican source, no less:

    You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigger, nigger, nigger.” By 1968 you can’t say “nigger”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nigger, nigger.”

    – Lee Atwater, Republican Advisor/Strategist, Reagan White House, 1981

  385. avatar
    Arthur April 11, 2014 at 5:51 pm #

    Sho: Zullo set a target date of March.. there was never any specific date mentioned… apparently new information was uncovered and needs to be vetted… could it turn out to be complete BS ? lol, maybe… but considering that Zullo is a veteran law enforcement professional who has worked as a private investigator..

    Zullo is not a veteran law enforcement professional. According to a report by the CBS affiliate in Phoenix, Zullo has self-reported that he worked five years as a police officer in the small town of Demarest, N.J. This was over two decades ago. For the past twenty years, Zullo was employed in the car business, first as a salesman and then as a officer in a company called Autotruth. http://www.kpho.com/story/19094741/cold-case-posse-lacks-law-enforcement-experience

    Moreover, a real law enforcement veteran would not announce he had “earth shattering” evidence before he could make that that evidence public, and he certainly wouldn’t tell people outside of law enforcement (i.e. Carl Gallups) what that evidence was so they could pimp his so-called investigation like an over ripe cheese.

  386. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 11, 2014 at 5:59 pm #

    I’d be interested in knowing when and where Kommandante Zullo “has worked as a private investigator,” as many localities have little or no prerequisites (beyond a fee) to obtain a license, while others don’t even require that private investigators be licensed.

  387. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 11, 2014 at 6:35 pm #

    Bonsall Obot:
    I’d be interested in knowing when and where Kommandante Zullo “has worked as a private investigator,” as many localities have little or no prerequisites (beyond a fee) to obtain a license, while others don’t even require that private investigators be licensed.

    As I recall he said he was a private investigator in New Jersey after he left the Demarest Police Department and before he moved to Arizona.

  388. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 11, 2014 at 6:45 pm #

    And the New Jersey Licensed Private Investigator’s Association says “(a)pplicants may also elect to work under the license of an established and licensed Private Investigator company until they have gained the required experience.”

    So, exactly zero evidence he’s ever been a licensed PI, or received any training in investigations. None. Zero.

    By all means, Birfers, put all your eggs in that particular basket.

  389. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 11, 2014 at 6:45 pm #

    Sho: …. we should find out soon what the hoopla is all about…

    You are right….but not the way you think.

  390. avatar
    gorefan April 11, 2014 at 6:46 pm #

    Sho: we should find out soon what the hoopla is all about…

    There’s that word again “soon”.

    CarlOrcas: As I recall he said he was a private investigator in New Jersey after he left the Demarest Police Department and before he moved to Arizona.

    Five years as a police officer and two years as a licensed P.I.

  391. avatar
    gorefan April 11, 2014 at 6:53 pm #

    Bonsall Obot:
    And the New Jersey Licensed Private Investigator’s Association says “(a)pplicants may also elect to work under the license of an established and licensed Private Investigator company until they have gained the required experience.”

    From the second July, 2012 press conference:

    Male Reporter: Mr. Zullo, can you clear up some questions about your background in law enforcement?

    Zullo: What do you want to know?

    Female Reporter: How many years did you work in the [unintelligible ] Police Department?

    Zullo: Five.

    Female Reporter: And how long of that, portion of that time were you a detective?

    Zullo: Almost the entire time, they took me out of uniform extremely young. I also started as a reserve Officer there prior to that so I had street time there. On top of that – let me finish for you – six and a half, seven years as a licensed investigator in the State of New Jersey, owning my own corporation before I moved out here in 1993.

    Female Reporter: The State of New Jersey says that you were only a licensed investigator for two years, sir.

    Zullo: The one that I owned. Worked for other people; you’ve gotta check your facts.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/100808537/Unofficial-Transcript-of-the-MCCP-Press-Conference-July-17-2012

    So he exaggerated his resume on the number of years that he worked as a “licensed” P.I.

  392. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 11, 2014 at 6:57 pm #

    gorefan:

    Five years as a police officer and two years as a licensed P.I.

    That should be easy to document.

    Well, Kommandante? How about it? Don’t you think your supporters are entitled to know the qualifications of their champion? Shouldn’t he be… vetted?

  393. avatar
    Keith April 11, 2014 at 7:24 pm #

    Bonsall Obot:
    The first corollary to Godwin’s Law, of course, is the more important aspect – that invoking Hitler or Nazis inappropriately means you have conceded the argument.

    On the other hand, the problem with Godwin’s Law is that is assumes that invoking Hitler or Nazis is automatically comparing the events being argued about to the Shoah, and the perpetrators to inhuman monsters.

    As the recent film Hanna Arndt reminds us, the people who allowed this to happen were not inhuman monsters. They were inhuman ordinary people like Adolf Eichmann who could apparently could separate his actions from their consequence. He was just following his orders and it was the next person down the line, or the next after that, or the next after that that was responsible for the killing, not him.

    The off-topic discussion I had in the bullying thread with about the Libertarian party and its plan to destroy the American education system is a case in point. My correspondent ‘was a Libertarian’ therefore he wanted to give parents and students more choice about their education. That is a high sounding cause. But the Libertarian party policy calls for the complete elimination of the public school system – removal of State Constitutional guarantees for education and required attendance, and the complete ending of taxpayer supported education.

    That this would result in the complete lack of choice about people’s education doesn’t bother my correspondent, that is not his worry, he is just focused one thing: convincing people that they don’t have any choice. When it is pointed out that they do indeed have choice, the answer is that it must have been ‘before the Department of Education’. The Department of Education was founded in 1867, and millions of children and their parents had absolutely ZERO choice about education what-so-ever.

    This is where Godwin breaks down, when the point is that evil is not perpetrated by monsters, but by ordinary people who have lost their humanity, Nazism are good example.

  394. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 11, 2014 at 7:38 pm #

    I used the word “inappropriately” advisedly.

    Godwin’s Law, alone, is kind of useless, as it boils down to “if a conversation lasts long enough, x will be introduced.” Well, yeah. In an infinite conversation, everything will be introduced. That’s why the first corollary is the more important aspect: that a comparison will be introduced when it doesn’t actually apply, and this is tantamount to saying “I got nothin’, so Hitler.”

    But yes, sometimes the comparison is apt, if not necessarily about genocide, but about the banality of evil. In that instance, Godwin’s Law has actually been satisfied, but not the first corollary.

  395. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 11, 2014 at 8:02 pm #

    gorefan: So he exaggerated his resume on the number of years that he worked as a “licensed” P.I.

    I’ve posted this before but here’s the Demarest P.D.’s current website. Notice that there are as many full time officers, including the chief and deputy chief, as there are school crossing guards and…….no detectives.

    http://www.demarestnj.net/Police.php

    They may have had detectives when Zullo was on the department but if the crime problem was at all similar I doubt it. I especially doubt his explanation of how made that move. Rookies aren’t made detectives….except in TV shows.

    The population of Demarest is essentially the same today as it was in 1980-1990 – about 4,800 people. It appears to have always been a well to do enclave in Bergen County. Today the median household income is about $150,000 a year. Hardly a hot bed of crime.

    I don’t have any crime data for the period (whatever it may be) when Zullo was there but here are some figures for 2006-2009:

    http://www.securityguide.com/crime-reports/demarest-nj/

    Scroll down to find that in the four year period there were two (2) violent crimes comprised of two assaults with no murders, no rapes and no robberies.

    Other crimes are similarly low to non-existent.

    Now…..I guess Zullo could have faced a different situation all those years ago and managed to fight crime in Demarest to a standstill before he moved out west…….to sell cars.

  396. avatar
    faceman April 11, 2014 at 8:42 pm #

    The birthers say: Obama must be hiding something because he won’t release his records (even though he already has).
    Zullo keeps saying that he is about to release the results of his investigation, but somehow he never does. What is HE hiding? And whatever happened to transparency?

  397. avatar
    bgansel9 April 12, 2014 at 10:23 am #

    gorefan:

    Female Reporter: The State of New Jersey says that you were only a licensed investigator for two years, sir.

    Zullo: The one that I owned. Worked for other people; you’ve gotta check your facts.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/100808537/Unofficial-Transcript-of-the-MCCP-Press-Conference-July-17-2012

    So he exaggerated his resume on the number of years that he worked as a “licensed” P.I.

    I was a licensed private investigator for a while in Arizona and I worked through an agency. I never used my license as a proprietor. Arizona would not say that I was never a licensed P.I. Zullo may have been working under the table and never actually applied for licensure before he went out on his own (which would most likely be illegal) but, it surely doesn’t sound as if he was licensed for five of those years, or as you say, he was lying.

  398. avatar
    roald April 12, 2014 at 12:40 pm #

    Suranis: Firstly, The Boston Tea Party was not about taxation as such. It was about Taxation WITHOUT REPRESENTATION. They were objecting to the British Parliament leveling taxes on a country that had no elected representatives in Parliament to put forward their case.

    Suranis. While I agree with your point that Commander Publius is wrong, the Boston Tea Party was actually a protest against welfare to a big business. The tax being paid by a large company was reduced below what local corporations were charged to allow that company to undercharge smugglers, placing the businesses in the colonies at a disadvantage.

    http://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2009/04/real-boston-tea-party-was-against-wal-mart-1770s

  399. avatar
    gorefan April 12, 2014 at 1:55 pm #

    CarlOrcas: I’ve posted this before but here’s the Demarest P.D.’s current website. Notice that there are as many full time officers, including the chief and deputy chief, as there are school crossing guards and…….no detectives.

    http://www.demarestnj.net/Police.php

    They may have had detectives when Zullo was on the department but if the crime problem was at all similar I doubt it. I especially doubt his explanation of how made that move. Rookies aren’t made detectives….except in TV shows.

    The population of Demarest is essentially the same today as it was in 1980-1990 – about 4,800 people. It appears to have always been a well to do enclave in Bergen County. Today the median household income is about $150,000 a year. Hardly a hot bed of crime.

    I don’t have any crime data for the period (whatever it may be) when Zullo was there but here are some figures for 2006-2009:

    http://www.securityguide.com/crime-reports/demarest-nj/

    Scroll down to find that in the four year period there were two (2) violent crimes comprised of two assaults with no murders, no rapes and no robberies.

    Other crimes are similarly low to non-existent.

    Now…..I guess Zullo could have faced a different situation all those years ago and managed to fight crime in Demarest to a standstill before he moved out west…….to sell cars.

    I suspect in a small town like that any major crimes were investigated by the county sheriff or the state police.

  400. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 12, 2014 at 2:40 pm #

    gorefan: I suspect in a small town like that any major crimes were investigated by the county sheriff or the state police.

    At the very least they would have been called on to assist Demarest.

  401. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 12, 2014 at 3:47 pm #

    Unless Demarest employed The World’s Finest Detective, a man who can make evidence appear by sheer force of will.

  402. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 12, 2014 at 4:19 pm #

    Bonsall Obot:
    Unless Demarest employed The World’s Finest Detective, a man who can make evidence appear by sheer force of will.

    Clearly Mr. Zullo is a man of many talents.

  403. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 12, 2014 at 4:33 pm #

    What a pity he’s been squandering those talents selling used cars.

  404. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 12, 2014 at 4:35 pm #

    One question related to his talents worth considering is: how exactly does Mike Zullo make his living nowadays? Does he live entirely off the kindness of birthers, or does he have some legitimate work?

    CarlOrcas: Clearly Mr. Zullo is a man of many talents.

  405. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 12, 2014 at 5:46 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    One question related to his talents worth considering is: how exactly does Mike Zullo make his living nowadays? Does he live entirely off the kindness of birthers, or does he have some legitimate work?

    Good question. Like you (I suspect) I have spent too much time trying to figure out who this guy is.

    Near as I can figure he worked with his father in the Mitsubishi dealership on McDowell Road in Scottsdale until it failed in the late 90′s. About that time he and his father founded AutoTruth, LLC which was supposed to help people buy cars without the hassle of dealing with a dealer’s sales person (Oh, the irony!). It appears to be out of business. The website is dead. Not sure when it gave up the ghost.

    His father (Michael J. Zullo) died in May 2010. It’s not clear if Michael P. (our Zullo) inherited any money or receives any money from the family trusts. There is lots of other family information that really doesn’t tell much but raises some questions. I know you don’t like to get into that sort of stuff so I’ll leave it there.

    The Cold Case Posse got active on the birther issue the next year. It was founded in 2006 but I’ve never been able to find anything on it before the Sheriff “assigned” it to look into Obama’s birth certificate at the behest of Jerome Corsi and Brian Reilly in September 2011. http://www.wnd.com/2011/09/346201/ No mention of Zullo at that time.

    Then, as he detailed here, Mr. Reilly joined the posse in early 2012 and, as they say, the rest is history.

    So….to answer your question: I can’t find anything about Zullo’s activities after his father died other than the posse. And, of course, without any financial data we have no idea what kind of money is running through that LLC. I can’t figure out when the posse first started asking for donations. Do you know?

    Early on I was inclined to think the amount of money involved with the posse wasn’t much but, for lots of reasons, I’ve changed my mind on that one.

    It certainly isn’t a real, honest to goodness, criminal investigation. It stands no chance of removing Obama from office. So I’m left with just one conclusion and that is it’s designed to inflate Michael P. Zullo’s ego and/or his checkbook.

  406. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 12, 2014 at 6:27 pm #

    To your direct question about the date the CCP began soliciting donations:

    The mcsoccp.org domain was registered December 9, 2011 and the following month, the Joomla content managed site was online and archived by the Wayback Machine. That first capture had a donations link. So sometime between December 9, 2011, and January 8, 2012, the Cold Case Posse began soliciting donations online. The original archival of the MCSOCCP site doesn’t mention the Obama investigation on the home page (not all pages were archived) but by the following March 15 the March 1, 2012, press conference was front-page news.

    I think that it is instructive to compare the preceding dates with the Cold Case Posse Timeline from RC Radio. The timing suggests that the CCP web site and donation link is right in the middle of the time when it was clear that Arpaio was going publicize his Obama investigation.

    You’re right that I really don’t want to discuss Zullo’s personal finances on this blog, although information is in the public record. I probably pushed my own rules by raising the issue of his current employment, which I actually know but won’t say because the information not public information. What I will say is that he is not employed as a private detective, because that is relevant.

    CarlOrcas: Good question. Like you (I suspect) I have spent too much time trying to figure out who this guy is.

    Near as I can figure he worked with his father in the Mitsubishi dealership on McDowell Road in Scottsdale until it failed in the late 90′s. About that time he and his father founded AutoTruth, LLC which was supposed to help people buy cars without the hassle of dealing with a dealer’s sales person (Oh, the irony!). It appears to be out of business. The website is dead. Not sure when it gave up the ghost.

    His father (Michael J. Zullo) died in May 2010. It’s not clear if Michael P. (our Zullo) inherited any money or receives any money from the family trusts. There is lots of other family information that really doesn’t tell much but raises some questions. I know you don’t like to get into that sort of stuff so I’ll leave it there.

    The Cold Case Posse got active on the birther issue the next year. It was founded in 2006 but I’ve never been able to find anything on it before the Sheriff “assigned” it to look into Obama’s birth certificate at the behest of Jerome Corsi and Brian Reilly in September 2011. http://www.wnd.com/2011/09/346201/ No mention of Zullo at that time.

    Then, as he detailed here, Mr. Reilly joined the posse in early 2012 and, as they say, the rest is history.

    So….to answer your question: I can’t find anything about Zullo’s activities after his father died other than the posse. And, of course, without any financial data we have no idea what kind of money is running through that LLC. I can’t figure out when the posse first started asking for donations. Do you know?

    Early on I was inclined to think the amount of money involved with the posse wasn’t much but, for lots of reasons, I’ve changed my mind on that one.

    It certainly isn’t a real, honest to goodness, criminal investigation. It stands no chance of removing Obama from office. So I’m left with just one conclusion and that is it’s designed to inflate Michael P. Zullo’s ego and/or his checkbook.

  407. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 12, 2014 at 7:13 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The mcsoccp.org domain was registered December 9, 2011 and the following month, the Joomla content managed site was online and archived by the Wayback Machine. That first capture had a donations link. So sometime between December 9, 2011, and January 8, 2012, the Cold Case Posse began soliciting donations online. The original archival of the MCSOCCP site doesn’t mention the Obama investigation on the home page (not all pages were archived) but by the following March 15 the March 1, 2012, press conference was front-page news.

    If financial information is ever released it will be interesting to see how donations rose and fell with the various (innumerable?) developments.

    Dr. Conspiracy: I think that it is instructive to compare the preceding dates with the Cold Case Posse Timeline from RC Radio. The timing suggests that the CCP web site and donation link is right in the middle of the time when it was clear that Arpaio was going publicize his Obama investigation.

    No surprise there!

  408. avatar
    JRC April 13, 2014 at 10:53 am #

    Arthur: You are making unethical arguments by trying to say I said something I never did.

    Your original question was, “Have you ever used the words ‘Nazi’ with any post you’ve used about anything political?” I said that I had. However, Ididn’t compare someone to the Nazis; rather, I described comparing dehumanizing techniques that the Nazis used with contemporary attempts to portray groups of people as inherently evil.I find that there is a difference between calling someone a Nazi and pointing out that he/she is doing something the Nazis are notorious for. Moreover, in pointing out similarities between contemporary examples of group blaming with the propaganda efforts of the Nazis, I have never accused anyone of being guilty of extermination. As someone who has taught two university courses that dealt with the propaganda of Nazi Germany (“Language; Its Power and Abuse” and “History of the Holocaust”–a team-taught course in which I lectured on Nazi propaganda) I am very cautious about the words I use to describe people I disagree with.

    You are conflating things and accusing me of saying things I didn’t say.

    I’m not accusing you of anything. I ask if you ever had, and you answered and gave an example in your response. If you have never done such, then more power to you. I just said that there are many examples of false equivalence. I think most people are guilty of it including myself. You may be offended by different terms than I am. For me personally it’s not the terms that are offensive but the intent behind them.

    Now when I say that I’m not justifying the use of any term just how I respond when a term that may be offensive is directed at me.

    I just said that there is a lot of false equivalence out there. I see lots of it from following the birthers. I’m guilty of using the term “teabagger”. I used it above talking about the Koch brothers. But who am I to say that it isn’t insulting or that somehow because some other term is more insulting that god forbid you mention it with those other terms when listing terms that you disagree with, and rather not peruse blogs that allow them.

  409. avatar
    JRC April 13, 2014 at 10:55 am #

    Rickey: As I said, I could be mistaken. Speaking for myself, I have never conflated Bush with Hitler.

    Hopefully we can all agree that Hitler comparisons should be out of bounds, although I suspect that it won’t be long before we see more of this:

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cPOj1MEc174/TvS36V-uu0I/AAAAAAAAQ9o/uCh4Wu6bbnw/s400/hitlary%252520hitler.jpg

    Yeah, I’m sure we will be seeing much much more of that and probably much worse.

  410. avatar
    Suranis April 13, 2014 at 11:32 am #

    Oh cool! Thanks so much for the link. I’ll read it later, but its great to have someone correct me with actual info.

    Why is it that I get a positive charge when I learn something new that proves me wrong in details if it means I learn something?

    roald: Suranis. While I agree with your point that Commander Publius is wrong, the Boston Tea Party was actually a protest against welfare to a big business. The tax being paid by a large company was reduced below what local corporations were charged to allow that company to undercharge smugglers, placing the businesses in the colonies at a disadvantage.

    http://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2009/04/real-boston-tea-party-was-against-wal-mart-1770s

  411. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 13, 2014 at 11:36 am #

    Suranis:

    Why is it that I get a positive charge when I learn something new that proves me wrong in details if it means I learn something?

    Because you’re actually honest and actually curious?

    Birfers, take heed.

  412. avatar
    Arthur April 13, 2014 at 11:37 am #

    JRC: I’m not accusing you of anything.

    I didn’t say you were. I said you were misrepresenting what I said.

  413. avatar
    JRC April 13, 2014 at 12:18 pm #

    Arthur: I didn’t say you were. I said you were misrepresenting what I said.

    But I wasn’t. Everyone that use Nazis are just pointing out what the Nazis did, not accuse them of being Nazis. That seems to be everyone’s excuse when they use the Nazis. Well I’m not calling you a Nazi, I’m just saying you know that’s what the Nazis did. You may be one of the few that uses it to educate and not for the purpose that because someone did that means you know well before too long Nazis. I’ve unfortunately watched enough Fox News to see how they use it. Obama bailed out car companies, and you know Hitler and the Nazis. Then they say, oh no we aren’t saying that Obama is a Nazi, but just letting the viewers decide if his policy is similar to what the Nazis did.

    Normally when Nazis are brought up there is going to be some false equivalence going on. Not always, but the majority of the time. I personally don’t know you, so I could be totally wrong about how you use it. For that I apologize if I offended you.

  414. avatar
    Sef April 13, 2014 at 3:59 pm #

    Slarti, I’m afraid reality is on the blink again.

  415. avatar
    Arthur April 13, 2014 at 4:13 pm #

    JRC: But I wasn’t.

    Fine.

  416. avatar
    Rickey April 13, 2014 at 5:21 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Good question. Like you (I suspect) I have spent too much time trying to figure out who this guy is.

    Near as I can figure he worked with his father in the Mitsubishi dealership on McDowell Road in Scottsdale until it failed in the late 90′s. About that time he and his father founded AutoTruth, LLC which was supposed to help people buy cars without the hassle of dealing with a dealer’s sales person (Oh, the irony!). It appears to be out of business. The website is dead. Not sure when it gave up the ghost.

    His father (Michael J. Zullo) died in May 2010. It’s not clear if Michael P. (our Zullo) inherited any money or receives any money from the family trusts. There is lots of other family information that really doesn’t tell much but raises some questions. I know you don’t like to get into that sort of stuff so I’ll leave it there.

    I can fill in a few details which shouldn’t break any rules.

    Zullo lived in Tenafly, N.J. and moved to Arizona early in 1981. While in New Jersey he reportedly worked for the Demarest Police Department. Demarest is less than three miles from Tenafly. Both towns are are small, low-crime bedroom communities. Whatever Zullo’s police experience was, he has not done real police work for at least the past 33 years. When you consider that he was not yet 21 years old when he moved to Arizona, his experience in Demarest could not have amounted to much, a year or two at most.

    In 1993 he and his father formed a company called HOT SHOTS ARMS & AMMO., INC. in Scottsdale. The company was dissolved in 1999. Autotruth, LLC was incorporated in 1998.

    His parents also owned a restaurant in Scottsdale called Bagel Boys. It has been out of business since 2000.

    As far as I can determine, Zullo has never been licensed as a private investigator.

  417. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 13, 2014 at 6:35 pm #

    Rickey: Zullo lived in Tenafly, N.J. and moved to Arizona early in 1981. While in New Jersey he reportedly worked for the Demarest Police Department. Demarest is less than three miles from Tenafly. Both towns are are small, low-crime bedroom communities. Whatever Zullo’s police experience was, he has not done real police work for at least the past 33 years. When you consider that he was not yet 21 years old when he moved to Arizona, his experience in Demarest could not have amounted to much, a year or two at most.

    I wonder if that shouldn’t be 1991 and not 1981?

    I don’t know what the age requirement was back then but today it is 21 to be a police officer in New Jersey. Also, as I recall, he worked for a while as a private investigator there before he came to Arizona.

    I’m aware of the other ventures he and his parents dabbled in but the big operation was the car dealership. I believe his father was also involved in auto sales in New Jersey before they came to Arizona.

    Still trying to figure out how he makes a living today!

  418. avatar
    Curious George April 13, 2014 at 6:55 pm #

    CarlOrcas:

    Here is an interesting article from Western Journalism, June of 2013, regarding Zullo. You and Doc may find some answers in this article. Notice the reporter’s build up of Zullo’s (5 years) law enforcement experience. Karl the dissembler calls it “decades” of experience.

    http://www.westernjournalism.com/a-dollar-collapse-is-coming/

  419. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 13, 2014 at 7:26 pm #

    Curious George:
    CarlOrcas:

    Here is an interesting article from Western Journalism, June of 2013, regarding Zullo.You and Doc may find some answers in this article.Notice the reporter’s build up of Zullo’s (5 years) law enforcement experience.Karl the dissembler calls it “decades” of experience.

    http://www.westernjournalism.com/a-dollar-collapse-is-coming/

    Ah…..Floyd Brown! He runs both the Western Center for Journalism and Capitol Hill Daily. He’s got both coasts covered!

    Not sure what Zullo is doing in his piece but it is interesting that’s the first time I’ve ever heard about him being a “trader of equities”. Doc, how about you?

    FWIW…..I don’t find him listed as a broker at the Arizona Corporation Commission’s Securities Division. I’ll keep looking.

  420. avatar
    JRC April 13, 2014 at 7:48 pm #

    So again show me what school is less funded than in 85 (beside a school that merge or is not longer in existence) Show me a public school that is spending $100,000 a pupil like the dishonest example of 1,1,1,1,100.

  421. avatar
    Curious George April 13, 2014 at 8:07 pm #

    CarlOrcas,

    Notice in the article it is mentioned that Mr. Z is more interested in saving America than making money. As I understand the process, if one is day trading for themselves in their own name with their own money, no license is required. However, if one trades for others, using other people’s funds, or in the name of another entity, a license is required.

  422. avatar
    Suranis April 13, 2014 at 8:11 pm #

    Can we get back to laughing at birthers now Kthksbye.

  423. avatar
    Suranis April 13, 2014 at 8:18 pm #

    I imagine that Z is has made AMAZING deals and loads of money, but he cant tell you how much as the time is right, but its stupendous amounts of money and he will be in a position to give it all to you soon, but until then please take the opportunity to make even MORE money by donating to the Mr Z fund.

    And JRC, go take a breather and calm down.

    Curious George:
    CarlOrcas,

    Notice in the article it is mentioned that Mr. Z is more interested in saving America than making money.

  424. avatar
    JRC April 13, 2014 at 8:19 pm #

    Suranis how do you extrapolate 30-40 percent of schools are being less funded….Wow you are amazing. Please do tell. I work at a school, so I know that public education and teachers aren’t the enemy. Shows again how smart you are.

  425. avatar
    JRC April 13, 2014 at 8:21 pm #

    Suranis:
    I imagine that Z is has made AMAZING deals and loads of money, but he cant tell you how much as the time is right, but its stupendous amounts of money and he will be in a position to give it all to you soon, but until then please take the opportunity to make even MORE money by donating to the Mr Z fund.

    And JRC, go take a breather and calm down.

    Suranis, go wash those shorts. I’ll guess that 40 percent of the surface area really really needs to be cleaned.

  426. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 13, 2014 at 8:22 pm #

    Curious George:
    CarlOrcas,

    Notice in the article it is mentioned that Mr. Z is more interested in saving America than making money.As I understand the process, if one is day trading for themselves in their own name with their own money, no license is required.However, if one trades for others, using other people’s funds, or in the name of another entity, a license is required.

    Do people still do day trading? I thought it was fad that had passed on.

    In any case, yes, that’s my understanding of how it works.

    As far as his saving America is concerned I’d say the jury is still out on that one.

  427. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 13, 2014 at 8:29 pm #

    Yes, I have heard this before. It is also a neat tie-in with the financial collapse products WorldNetDaily is hawking. I wonder if this heralds Zullo branching into a new business. Most interesting.

    CarlOrcas: Not sure what Zullo is doing in his piece but it is interesting that’s the first time I’ve ever heard about him being a “trader of equities”. Doc, how about you?

  428. avatar
    Suranis April 13, 2014 at 8:31 pm #

    Uh… Because $4000 then was worth more in real terms. You inferred that even the poorest school is getting more than the average in 1985 because you thought 4000 NOW is more than $3,222 was THEN in 85, which in raw numbers it is, despite the fact that your own table showed that $3222 is the equivalent of $6539 today. You stipulated to the truth of both links. So the WORTH of money was more then than it is now because of inflation

    That means that a school that is getting less than $6539 per pupil is getting less in real terms than the average per pupil in 1985.

    That means that it’s receiving less funding than 30 years ago in real terms despite rising equipment costs and possibly the penalties and costs associated with the No Child Left Behind act.

    Its not a hard extrapolation to make, JRC.

    JRC:
    Suranis how do you extrapolate 30-40 percent of schools are being less funded….Wow you are amazing.Please do tell.I work at a school, so I know that public education and teachers aren’t the enemy.Shows again how smart you are.

  429. avatar
    JRC April 13, 2014 at 8:34 pm #

    Suranis:
    Uh… Because $4000 now is worth less than $6539 now. You inferred that even the poorest school is getting more than the average in 1985 because you thought 4000 now is MORE than $3,222 was in 85, despite the fact that your own table showed that $3222 is the equivalent of $6539 today. You stipulated to the truth of both links.

    Okay, you are correct. You found an article that say that. So on that stipulation you win. Now find me that $100,000 a pupil school.

    That means that a school that is getting less than $6539 per pupil is getting less than the average per pupil in 1985.

    That means that it’s receiving less funding than 30 years ago in real terms despite rising equipment costs and possibly the penalties and costs associated with the No Child Left Behind act.

    Its not a hard extrapolation to make, JRC.

    Suranis how do you extrapolate 30-40 percent of schools are being less funded….Wow you are amazing. Please do tell. I work at a school, so I know that public education and teachers aren’t the enemy. Shows again how smart you are.

  430. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 13, 2014 at 8:41 pm #

    “Trader of equities” means stockbroker, unless I am much mistaken. And knowing what we know of Kommandante Zullo, I’d bet money that means a boiler room and cold-calling little old ladies.

  431. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 13, 2014 at 8:41 pm #

    It’s still around, and some people make a consistent living doing it. I read the most day traders lose.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_trading

    CarlOrcas: Do people still do day trading? I thought it was fad that had passed on.

  432. avatar
    Suranis April 13, 2014 at 8:44 pm #

    Slarti was using a sequence of numbers as an example to show how averages can distort the truth of figures if the sample sise is weighted heavily on one sides. Similarly, if a small segment of schools are heavily funded and the rest underfunded, just looking at the raw average number will hide that discrepancy. So looking at that and using that to claim funding for every school has gone up is meaningless.

    Can I stop being patient now, guys?

    JRC: Okay, you are correct. You found an article that say that. So on that stipulation you win. Now find me that $100,000 a pupil school.

  433. avatar
    RanTalbott April 13, 2014 at 8:46 pm #

    CarlOrcas: FWIW…..I don’t find him listed as a broker at the Arizona Corporation Commission’s Securities Division.

    He probably has a client account with some company like that one that uses the CGIed babies to convince people that making money by day-trading is “child’s play”.

  434. avatar
    JRC April 13, 2014 at 8:47 pm #

    Suranis:
    Slarti was using a sequence of numbers as an example to show how averages can distort the truth of figures if the sample sise is weighted heavily on one sides. Similarly, if a small segment of schools are heavily funded and the rest underfunded, just looking at the raw average number will hide that discrepancy. So looking at that and using that to claim funding for every school has gone up is meaningless.

    Can I stop being patient now, guys?

    Wow….it was dishonest. How many schools are there out there? So to skew the average with a few schools would take millions of dollars. But I know math, you don’t seem to.

  435. avatar
    Suranis April 13, 2014 at 8:52 pm #

    Or 40% being underfunded and 10% overfunded with the funding that the poor schools now lack.

    And now we are getting into theory again. Goodnight.

    Wow….it was dishonest. How many schools are there out there? So to skew the average with a few schools would take millions of dollars. But I know math, you don’t seem to.

  436. avatar
    JRC April 13, 2014 at 8:57 pm #

    Suranis:
    Or 40% being underfunded and 10% overfunded with the funding that the poor schools now lack.

    And now we are getting into theory again. Goodnight.

    Goodnight….where are you coming up with the numbers. You throw them out there, but I’d like to see your work.

    Game of Thrones time here. Later.

  437. avatar
    Suranis April 13, 2014 at 9:31 pm #

    To be honest I squash the numbers together in my head and just report what I see. It’s a gift I suppose, visualizing numbers,. Its a bit like watching watching water flow from one place to another. Kind of a compensation for being depressive and anti-social I suppose. Certainly haven’t made any use of it in my life.

    JRC: Goodnight….where are you coming up with the numbers.You throw them out there, but I’d like to see your work.

  438. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 13, 2014 at 9:59 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Yes, I have heard this before. It is also a neat tie-in with the financial collapse products WorldNetDaily is hawking. I wonder if this heralds Zullo branching into a new business. Most interesting.

    Yes, indeed. I double checked and through the resources at the Arizona Corporation Commission didn’t find anything for him.

    Arizona has a rich history of interesting stock operators.

  439. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 13, 2014 at 10:02 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    It’s still around, and some people make a consistent living doing it. I read the most day traders lose.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_trading

    There were quite a few scam artists pushing it in Arizona for a while until they went broke and/or went to jail.

  440. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 13, 2014 at 10:10 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Article originally appeared:

    http://www.capitolhilldaily.com/2013/06/dollar-fiat-currency

    Floyd Brown runs both operations. He fits right in the pantheon of right wing craziness.

  441. avatar
    Rickey April 13, 2014 at 11:06 pm #

    CarlOrcas: I wonder if that shouldn’t be 1991 and not 1981?

    I don’t know what the age requirement was back then but today it is 21 to be a police officer in New Jersey. Also, as I recall, he worked for a while as a private investigator there before he came to Arizona.

    I’m aware of the other ventures he and his parents dabbled in but the big operation was the car dealership. I believe his father was also involved in auto sales in New Jersey before they came to Arizona.

    As we know, the databases investigators use are not free of errors and that could be the situation with Zullo. However -

    Two different Arizona addresses are shown for him in Arizona in 1981, one in Cave Creek and one in Fountain Hills.

    The last New Jersey address shown for him is in Tenafly in February, 1981.

    That is indicative that 1981 is the correct year, but I wouldn’t be totally confident about the accuracy without some correlating data.

    20 is young to be a police officer, but I’ve noticed that the Demarest P.D. has a category (which is below “patrolmen”) called “Special Police.” As far as I can determine, the “Special Police” aren’t real police officers. They do things like traffic control, work the police desk, etc. I wonder if that was the extend of Zullo’s police experience in Demarest?

    Of course, we haven’t seen any documentation that Zullo ever really did anything with the Demarest P.D. or that he ever was a P.I. in New Jersey. We only have Zullo’s word for it, as far as I know. He once claimed that he worked as a detective for five years, but Demarest doesn’t have a detective rank. The department has a Chief, a Deputy Chief, three Sergeants and nine Patrolmen. And five Special Police.

    Perhaps a Freedom of Information to the Borough of Demarest is in order.

  442. avatar
    Rickey April 13, 2014 at 11:17 pm #

    Bonsall Obot:
    “Trader of equities” means stockbroker, unless I am much mistaken. And knowing what we know of Kommandante Zullo, I’d bet money that means a boiler room and cold-calling little old ladies.

    Suddenly I had a vision of Zullo hawking tax shelters to Verna K. Lee.

  443. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 14, 2014 at 12:28 am #

    Rickey: As we know, the databases investigators use are not free of errors and that could be the situation with Zullo. However -

    It gets even more confusing when father and son share the same name but with different middle initials or names. Our Zullo is Michael P. and his father was Michael J. Zullo.

    The first time I went looking for information I found stuff for the father that didn’t make sense for the son. The father was born in 1928 so he would have been 53 in 1981. The properties are, as I recall, in his and his wife’s names via a trust.

    Michael P. is listed in public data bases as 53 years old which would make him only 20 in 1961 and not likely to have been a police officer and a private investigator in New Jersey before he moved to Arizona.

    Doc may have some recollection of when our guy moved to Arizona.

  444. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) April 14, 2014 at 6:59 am #

    CarlOrcas: and his father was Michael J. Zullo

    Harrison J. Zounell? The plot thickens! ;)

  445. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater April 14, 2014 at 8:42 am #

    CarlOrcas: Doc may have some recollection of when our guy moved to Arizona.

    According to this interview he did it was in 1993.
    http://americanfreepress.net/?p=5432

  446. avatar
    Admiral Crusty April 14, 2014 at 1:58 pm #

    If Zullo was a real police officer, why is it that not one current or former Demarest police officer has confirmed ever having known him?

    Why has Zullo never shown anyone in the press proof of his employment as a law enforcement officer?

    And why does Zullo not appear in any Demarest Police Force Yearbooks?

    Answers to these and other rhetorical questions will soon be provided when the ZIT Posse releases to the world its drawers-filling evydunce on Mike Zullo.

    When? Oh, now THAT would be a dumb question!

    Rickey: 20 is young to be a police officer, but I’ve noticed that the Demarest P.D. has a category (which is below “patrolmen”) called “Special Police.” As far as I can determine, the “Special Police” aren’t real police officers. They do things like traffic control, work the police desk, etc. I wonder if that was the extend of Zullo’s police experience in Demarest?

  447. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 14, 2014 at 2:02 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: According to this interview he did it was in 1993.
    http://americanfreepress.net/?p=5432

    That makes sense and it means the stuff from the early 1980′s belongs to his father.

    Thanks.

  448. avatar
    Rickey April 14, 2014 at 2:24 pm #

    CarlOrcas: It gets even more confusing when father and son share the same name but with different middle initials or names. Our Zullo is Michael P. and his father was Michael J. Zullo.

    The first time I went looking for information I found stuff for the father that didn’t make sense for the son. The father was born in 1928 so he would have been 53 in 1981. The properties are, as I recall, in his and his wife’s names via a trust.

    Michael P. is listed in public data bases as 53 years old which would make him only 20 in 1961 and not likely to have been a police officer and a private investigator in New Jersey before he moved to Arizona.

    Doc may have some recollection of when our guy moved to Arizona.

    The data for fathers and sons often becomes conflated, particularly when they have the same first name. What puzzles me about Michael P. Zullo is that the databases don’t show any New Jersey addresses for him after 1981.

    That’s not proof, but does raise questions. So far the only evidence we have that Zullo was a policeman in New Jersey is his own word for it.

  449. avatar
    Rickey April 14, 2014 at 2:26 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: According to this interview he did it was in 1993.
    http://americanfreepress.net/?p=5432

    Of course that interview is full of lies, and I don’t take anything that Zullo says at face value.

  450. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 14, 2014 at 4:33 pm #

    Rickey: That’s not proof, but does raise questions. So far the only evidence we have that Zullo was a policeman in New Jersey is his own word for it.

    And in the AFP interview he kind of expands things a bit by saying he was a detective in Bergen County. Well…..yes, Demarest is in Bergen County….along with dozens of other little dinky cities but it’s obvious he is trying to make it look like he worked for the county……not in it.

    All that said it just makes more sense to me that he arrived in Arizona in the early 90′s…..following his mother and father west.

  451. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 14, 2014 at 4:49 pm #

    Rickey: The data for fathers and sons often becomes conflated

    Nah… that NEVER happens. Just ask Barack Obama!

  452. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 14, 2014 at 4:56 pm #

    “(T)hey took me out of uniform extremely young.”

    I bet they did.

    Weasel Wording Skill Level: Master

  453. avatar
    The Magic M April 15, 2014 at 5:09 am #

    Only the best get fired young. ;)

  454. avatar
    Northland10 April 15, 2014 at 8:59 am #

    Admiral Crusty:
    If Zullo was a real police officer, why is it that not one current or former Demarest police officer has confirmed ever having known him?

    Why has Zullo never shown anyone in the press proof of his employment as a law enforcement officer?

    Some time back, I did find a newspaper article from around the early nineties which mentioned Zullo and possibly other officers chasing down a suspect. If I recall, the article mentioned he was not with the department anymore.

    I probably should warn folks that there is an older gentleman with the same name and middle initial in New Jersey.