Is Obama citizenship denial an insurgency?

Dr. Conspiracy

Dr. Conspiracy

If it walks like a duck…

I’m reading Dr. Edgar’s book South Carolina: A History, and recently the chapter on the state immediately following the official end of the Civil War, a period the author describes as an insurgency.

The first stage of an insurgency uses the techniques of propaganda to convince some part of the population the existing government is not legitimate. There’s no question that the nObama movement is pulling every rhetorical trick in the book to make people think the US government is not legitimate.

Attacks have been leveled against all three branches. Orly Taitz said: “we need civilian militia, we need our own investigating services, and we need new government, ” and “If we don’t have integrity with our elected officials and the whole system is corrupt, then it is time to revolt and change the system, ” and “I hope that the men in this country, particularly in our military will finally revolt against this travesty of Justice.”  Leo Donofrio said: “you have no Supreme court.  You have a filthy corrupted snake pit which tried to protect itself from responsibility for this issue by using clerks like brutal praetorian guards.”

globemutinyThe next stage is harassment of opponents. That has begun in the flurry of lawsuits against President Obama, the executive branch (Federal Elections Commission, Department of State, Department of Homeland Security), state attorneys general, presidential electors, the US House of Representatives and the US Senate. Orly Taitz is stalking Supreme Court justices and has made pleas on the Internet for people to harass others.

What we have not seen out of the movement yet (and probably not for a long time) is intimidation through violence. Terrorism is an optional part of an insurgency.

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100 Responses to Is Obama citizenship denial an insurgency?

  1. A. Kibitzer says:

    I can understand some people being confused by the sheer volume of material out there. However, the continued repetition of outright falsehoods such as the “Pakistan travel ban” as supporting “facts” by people who have been directly informed of its falsity, strongly suggests there is an element of this circus which (a) knows they are spreading false information and (b) has every intention of spreading false information.

    The willfulness of that activity rules out someone being casually misinformed, and indicates the propagators of the “not a natural born citizen” line are indeed intentionally seeking to undermine the president for reasons that have nothing to do with truth.

    Taitz’ campaign to actively foment mutiny within the armed forces is particularly telling. It is noteworthy that the wingnutters are receptive to a Russian native specifically seeking to interfere with good order in the US military.

  2. Bob says:

    Taitz has reposted a bit about the Pakistani travel ban. When a commenter pointed out there was no such ban, another poster claimed it was Pakistan that was banning U.S. citizens. Love those ever-moving goalposts.

    And Donofrio is now arguing Marbury v. Madison explains why his interpretation of Wong Ark Kim has to be correct. Cute.

  3. The evidence against the travel ban works just as well whether it is the US or Pakistan doing the banning. Plus there was never any evidence offered that the ban ever existed. It was a 100% made up assertion without even an assertion that evidence exists.

  4. Chris says:

    I’d say that the NYT travel article about Pakistan is fairly concrete evidence that Americans had no trouble entering Pakistan in 1981. Maybe that’s just me.

  5. anon says:

    But the NYT is a Commie Pinko rag (I know this because Rush and Levin tell me so), and this just proves that they have been in on the Konspiracy since 1981 !!!!1!

  6. Chris says:

    You’re right. I forgot about that part! They’ve been planning this $#&% since 1981, if not earlier. Seriously, though, these people are beginning to freak me out just a little. Someone talk me down.

  7. Sally Hill says:

    “The willfulness of that activity rules out someone being casually misinformed, and indicates the propagators of the “not a natural born citizen” line are indeed intentionally seeking to undermine the president for reasons that have nothing to do with truth.”

    How do you arrive at this statement? I could care less about his travel to Pakistan, his BC, or any of the other red herrings out there. I care only about the truth.

    So because I seek the truth about the true and intended defintion of NBC, then I MUST be a propagator and am intentionally seeking to undermine the presidency? I think not.

    You can oppose my interpretation of the Constitution, but to place generalities on the reasons that I seek the truth is wrong and in my opinion strips you of any credibility.

    I totally get where you are coming from. And if I were an Obama follower, I too might believe him to be a NBC. I think I have a better understanding of how the left felt when Bush won without the popular vote and when he invaded Iraq when the left felt he shouldn’t have. It’s not a good feeling and I think I have come to appreciate that stance. I’ve thought deeply about this issue and tried to put myself on the other side of the issue to understand your passion and beliefs – can you not try to do the same? To sling accusations at the other side will not help anything.

    I’m curious how the left would have viewed SCOTUS if, when they brought their cases 8 years ago, they had been dismissed without comment. Before you go knocking someone for how they feel regarding a certain issue, put that shoe on your own foot and image how it might feel – THEN hopefully you can be honest enough to understand how Donofrio, Taitz, etc. are feeling.

  8. Chris says:

    Sally: I understand your thoughts on the issue – the feeling of being cheated is not a good one (see: 2000 election). I can even admire the idea, in the abstract, of speaking truth to power and being skeptical of what media or government tells you on its face. It is up to you as an individual to investigate and determine where the truth really lies when you have doubts. (side note – it’s funny how I used ‘truth’ and ‘lies’ within 2 words of each other like that)

    In this case, however, there’s not a gray area. It is cut-and-dried. Obama was born in Hawaii. His mother was a US citizen, his father was a Kenyan. These are the facts. Does this make him a NBC? Yes it does. There are legal precedents examined in detail on this very site that get to the heart of the NBC debate. Even failing that, just look at the presidency of Chester A. Arthur. His father was Irish, his mother from Vermont. At the time, there was controversy over his legitimacy as well. However, the controversy stemmed from his place of birth, not his father’s nationality. There were rumors he was born in Canada or Ireland. If you accept that Obama was born on US soil with one citizen parent, then you accept that he’s a natural born citizen as Arthur was.

  9. Some folks have been “immunized” against the truth.

    There are any number of web site where someone gets the message that “everybody” knows Obama is ineligible, where everybody knows that it’s proven that Hawaii gives out birth certificates like Santa Claus gives out candy, and that the O-Bots are paid Obama misinformation spreaders who have no evidence. If you hang out in the wrong place, you will get a very strange view of what a consensus, normative view of the issues is. And of course they are taught to distrust the newspapers and the news channels. They are taught that the courts and the Congress are either corrupt or scared.

    Every “normal” source of information and every “normal” institution that people trust is portrayed as tainted. If your only view of the world is through the propaganda machine at WorldNetDaily, I guess the world looks like a very different place.

  10. Sally, if the case 8 years ago had been “dismissed without comment”, Al Gore may well have been elected. The Supreme Court heard Bush v. Gore and overruled the Florida Supreme Court and forced the Florida recount to stop.

    If the Supreme Court had declined to hear Bush, I doubt either side would have said very much. The Supreme Court doesn’t hear most cases anyway and the Florida Supreme Court had already ruled (quite reasonably).

    I must take exception to your comment: “You can oppose my interpretation of the Constitution, but to place generalities on the reasons that I seek the truth is wrong and in my opinion strips you of any credibility.”

    It perhaps strips one’s credibility as an interpreter of your intentions, but it does not strip one of any credibility. This kind of exaggeration polarizes the discussion and hinders communications.

    On an objective NBC question, what objection do you have to the statement in Lynch v. Clarke that a person born in the United States of two alien parents is eligible to be president? The link is here:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/01/the-great-mother-of-all-natural-born-citizen-quotation-pages/

  11. I presume that Obama must have been brainwashed in Pakistan when he was there in 1981. It was the Islamic militants who were planning to use Obama to destroy Israel.

  12. Chris says:

    It’s quite tempting to me just to write off the birther movement as a bunch of harmless nutjobs, much in the same way I do with the moon landing people and Glenn Beck. However, I find this whole pseudo-controversy disturbing. At this point, it’s become obvious that nothing – nothing – will convince these people of the legitimacy of the current administration. What happens when all of their lawsuits are thrown out (which of course they eventually all will be) and they feel betrayed by the ‘liberal’ government and courts? That’s what scares me. I seem to recall a seemingly harmless nutjob who was disillusioned with the ‘tyrannical’ government of the time taking matters into his own hands and taking 168 innocent lives in the process. The rhetoric was the same – the government is going to take our guns, taxes are oppressive etc. etc. – you see all of these same grievances on Orly’s site. I just hope the next Timothy McVeigh isn’t reading.

  13. Orly is a child playing with matches.

    The birther idea, or the NBC idea might be fun in the same way as flat earthers are fun, but Orly’s crowd talks in apocalyptic language and say that people desperately need to do something to avert a catastrophe. The economy is in a catastrophic state already, so the fear and anxiety is already there. It’s clear that these fringe theories are being used as tools in a political agenda which itself has nothing to do with Obama’s eligibility. I just hope they don’t succeed in adding a societal meltdown to the economic one.

  14. Chris says:

    I don’t fear it becoming a widespread societal meltdown. 99.99% of the population understands that the administration is legitimate, even if there’s disagreements about policy specifics. The problem is it only takes a handful of kooks propagate an act of violence. One can only hope that these people are satisfied with wasting people’s time and not their lives.

  15. Hitandrun says:

    “It is up to you as an individual to investigate and determine where the truth really lies […]”

    And I thought our officials and journalists were so charged. How naive of me!

    Keep the faith, Sally. Many of the polemicists here and elsewhere are trained in the arts of ridicule, though admittedly it seems to come naturally to them. It bespeaks what contempt they have for their audience as they deploy such rhetoric to mask their lack of substantive response. While I find the Donofrio NBC case baseless for the reasons cited on this blog by our gracious host among others, your arguments in its defense are most welcome. Please ignore the hyenic rhetoric of the incivil among us.

    Stay well,
    Hitandrun

  16. Chris says:

    I didn’t think I was coming across as uncivil. If I was, I apologize.

  17. Hitandrun says:

    My comments were not directed at you, Chris, but rather generally. Sorry if I gave that impression.

    Stay well,
    Hitandrun

  18. A. Kibitzer says:

    “How do you arrive at this statement? I could care less about his travel to Pakistan, his BC, or any of the other red herrings out there. I care only about the truth.

    THEN hopefully you can be honest enough to understand how Donofrio, Taitz, etc. are feeling.”

    I know that Taitz and Berg continue to use a number of utterly false assertions in support of their “truth”.

    I am honest enough to understand that “truth” doesn’t need to be propped up by lies.

  19. A. Kibitzer says:

    The first serious assassination attempt against President Obama will be made by a birther.

    Mark it well.

  20. Heavy says:

    99.99%? Are numbers are in the millions and growing rapidly. Every time your messiah opens his mouth the number jumps!

    It’s only a matter of time before the truth is exposed and he is deposed. All of the name calling ang lying cannot stop justice from being dispensed.

  21. Heavy says:

    Comments like that are so unAmerican. You people are sick.

  22. NBC says:

    It’s only a matter of time before the truth is exposed and he is deposed. All of the name calling ang lying cannot stop justice from being dispensed.

    We can all dream but reality is that Obama is the de facto and de jure President of the United States and is bound to do great things for this country.

    Which of course concerns those who do not want America to do ‘great things’. I understand.

  23. Chris says:

    Basic mathematics FAIL. First of all, there is exactly zero empirical evidence that the birthers number in the ‘millions’ as you claim. The leading light in this debate (WorldNetDaily) has approximately 330,000 ‘signatures’ on their petition. If you figure 124 million people voted, that would be less than 1/10 of one percent of the electorate. Even if there were, say, 3 million people who believed Obama to be illegitmate that would still equate to .02% of the total electorate. So yeah, try again.

  24. Chris says:

    I’d like to correct the last part of my post – I meant 2%, not .02%. Stupid decimal places.

  25. Heavy says:

    Chris, WND? REALLY? It’s amazing how you libs use information selectively!

    My point is that there is a very rapidly growing number of those who, once exposed to the truth, also question your messiah’s status. This information was kept from them by the MSM before the election. Now, the cat is out of the bag and the genie out of the bottle.

    Buyer’s remorse? Maybe, but one thing is for sure…

    The American people DEMAND justice!

  26. NBC says:

    Heavy: The American people DEMAND justice!

    A “lynching party” is not my idea of justice.

    Justice has been served, you may not like the outcome but that’s between you and the courts.

    There is just no credible evidence to support your case.
    Simple really.

  27. Chris says:

    I don’t think that information was used ‘selectively’. WND is essentially the weigh station for this whole ‘controversy’. Anyway, there’s not a way to quantify how many ‘birthers’ there are so any number stated is just conjecture.

    As a side note, I don’t think anyone who posts on here would call Barack Obama their ‘messiah’. He’s a politician – no more, no less. He has some good ideas and some bad ones, and by the end of his term hopefully the country will be better off than where it was when he was elected. He doesn’t qualify for messiah status, though. He’s just a guy.

  28. richCares says:

    “I don’t think anyone who posts on here would call Barack Obama their messiah’.”

    This was started by the McCain campaign, they were at a loss at explaining Obama’s popularity and that Obama was drawing 10 X crowds compared to McCain. The strength of Obama’s grass roots network was beyond what their pea brains could understand. They attempted to insult Obama’s popularity with “Messiah” insults. It didn’t work, all it accomplished was making themselves look foolish and ignorant. Only the far fledged right continues with “Messiah”, “The One”, “Worship”. These are the talking points of the ignorant. That just highlights their lagging intellectual attributes. If you ever wish to see how lagging they are visit their intellectual site “Conservapedia.com”, good for a laugh.

  29. Heavy says:

    What case?

  30. Heavy says:

    Actually, the messiah monicker comes from my personal observations of his followers. And I DO mean followers. Not an original thought between them. Just blind faith in THE ONE.

  31. Heavy says:

    So, when follwers of THE ONE dismiss information from WND (A daily occurance), then use the same information to make a point in their favor, that’s not selective. You’re right…It’s hypocritical!

  32. NBC says:

    Exactly. You got it…

  33. richCares says:

    what about this WND story:
    A separate WND investigation into Obama’s birth certificate utilizing forgery experts also found the document to be authentic.
    Link: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73214

  34. Heavy says:

    Stupid. What are you, 12?

  35. Heavy says:

    Random. Face it, you libs would not care if truth was staring you in the face. How do I know? Beacause IT IS!

  36. NBC says:

    As I said you have no case.
    case closed

  37. NBC says:

    As expected, total denial from our Heavy friend.

    This is not about the truth, this is about his wish to remove a sitting president because he does not agree with his policies.

    Sad really

  38. Chris says:

    I think I’m going to start referring to Orly Taitz as your messiah. The One, if you will.

  39. I think the underlying assumption here is that when someone speaks against their own interests (WND saying the document is not a forgery), they are telling the truth. While this idea has some intuitive appeal, I wouldn’t trust it.

    I have to agree with Sandra Lines when she says that no image on the Internet can be relied upon, and I wouldn’t rely on WND for much of anything.

  40. How about “Lenin”.

  41. You’re the one who keeps calling him a “Messiah”. Not us.

  42. Expelliarmus says:

    I think the underlying assumption here is that when someone speaks against their own interests (WND saying the document is not a forgery), they are telling the truth.

    That view has more than intuitive appeal — it is entrenched into the laws of evidence as an exception to the hearsay rule. (“Admissions” and “declarations against interest” [See, for example, Federal Rules of Evidence 804(b)(3)])

  43. bogus info says:

    Show Support for Danny Bickell who has been falsely accused and attacked by Orly Taitz and her goons/patriots.

    http://welovedannyb.blogspot.com/
    BRAVO BICKELL

    Also, video of CJ Roberts/Taitz

    by Butterfly Bilderberg Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:24 pm

    The Bellwood lecture is now available in on-demand streaming video. Real Media Player is required. Accessed from:

    http://www.uidaho.edu/law/aboutthecollegeoflaw/newsandevents/bellwoodlectures.aspx

    Dean of the law school opens up the forum for questions beginning at approx 53:00.

  44. Zuzu says:

    Somewhat OT, but …

    Came across this scan of the Honolulu Star-Bulletin birth announcement of 8/14/61, from the “What’s Your Evidence?” site:

    http://tesibria.typepad.com/whats_your_evidence/StarBulletinPhoto.jpg

    Just in case you didn’t have it.

  45. JM says:

    It’s funny how there are two or three right wing nut jobs that post multiple times on every thread on and sort of give you the impression that the there are more people with their points of view – until you realize it’s the same people posting every time.

    I find that on a lot of mainstream news sites as well. There seem to be a lot of anti Obama comments, but when you look closer you realize that the same few people post comments every few hours on the same article.

  46. thisoldhippie says:

    WND reported:
    According to Taitz, Roberts approached the microphone and said, “I see you have papers. I promise you I will read all your papers, I will review them. Please give them to my Secret Service and I will review all of them.”

    And the AP article stated:
    said she had

    documents proving that President Obama was not born in the
    United States and thus could not be president. While audience
    members laughed, she said she had half a million signatures
    of people demanding the Supreme Court hear the matter.
    Roberts cut her off by saying that if she had documents with her, she should give them to security officers. He also said
    he could not discuss the issue.

    After seeing the video I have to agree with the AP writer. The only thing I heard Justice Roberts say even remotely near what Taitz stated was “I would be happy to look at them.” Other than that he cut her off, did not let her speak further once he realized what she was going on about, and stated he couldn’t say anything else. Worse, this “attorney” completely violated the rules set forth at the beginning of the question answer session. She took time from the students at the school, she made a speech and didn’t ask a specific question and she brought a subject that is a pending case. Obviously she doesn’t understand basic English.

  47. A. Kibitzer says:

    An interesting article is:

    Applying Authorship Analysis to Extremist-Group Web Forum Messages

    Source IEEE Intelligent Systems archive
    Volume 20 , Issue 5 (September 2005) Pages: 67 – 75

    Year of Publication: 2005

    ISSN:1541-1672

  48. Thanks,

    I’ve been reading a bit on just this topic. I’ll have to see if I have some membership that will get me into the IEEE stuff.

  49. myson says:

    As anyone else noticed that ‘Heavy’ writes like that ‘Linda Starr’ lady ?

  50. Heavy says:

    Hey doc, Still waiting on that “Evidence” in your mailbox!

  51. Heavy says:

    And you have the mentality of “Ringo Starr”!

  52. Heavy says:

    We right wing “Nutjobs” don’t send much time on commie sights like this. We just stop in from time to time to see what the sicko libs are whining about.

  53. richCares says:

    Simplistic phrases and buzzwords are the badge of the right winger. “Sicko libs”, “hate America first crowd”, “commies” all simplistic labels attuned to the simple pea brains of the right winger. Simple labeling of people is their hallmark. Life must now just be an “us or them” fight which never ends because “us or them” will always be enemies. They can’t function without their daily dose of hate. It is tribalism at its most simplistic and does nothing to make our country and society stronger or better. Everything is the “libs” fault, it’s simple for their little brains to remember. What miserable lives they lead, so full of hate!

  54. Linda is much more verbose.

  55. We’ll have to have a contest, which of our “soons” happens first.

  56. myson says:

    H, that might be a compliment to the birthers but obviously you cant see it !!

  57. JM says:

    It’s a website not a web sight.
    And what does this have to do with communism? Do you even know what communism is?
    I’m confused!

  58. Heavy says:

    Simple is beautiful. Yes, I hate lberalism. It is destroying our country.

  59. Heavy says:

    Touche. You’re on!

  60. Heavy says:

    Yes, you are confused and that is a major part of your problem. Your pointing out grammatical errors is akin to your messiah going on ESPN and Leno in the middle of a financial crisis…It makes no sense!

  61. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is today’s talking points.

    “ARRRK! ESPN!!”

    “ARRRK! Leno!!”

    “ARRRK! Commie Libs!”

    “ARRRK! Birther want a cracker!”

  62. “Ogg hate liberal. Smash liberal with rock.”

    Can’t get much more simple than that

  63. Heavy says:

    Again, more spin. I said I hate LIBERALISM! I am not fond of its practitioners (Liberals) either.

  64. Heavy says:

    Patty, i seem to remeber your brethren screaming like little girls (Which happens all the time) when Bush did not the schoolroom the second he was informed of the 9/11 attacks.

    But your guy is still conducting his campaign in the middle of, what you libs call, the worst financial crisis in history.

    HYPOCRITES every last one of you. You can’t have it both ways. That is unless you are Barney Frank (He likes it ANY way) or Chis Dodd.

  65. richCares says:

    For the Benefit of Our illerate little friend, so he can see what he hates:
    The word “liberal” derives from the Latin liber (“free, not slave”), and is associated with the word “liberty” and the concept of freedom. Liberalism is a broad class of political philosophies that considers individual liberty and equality to be the most important political goals. Liberals argued that economic systems based on free markets are more efficient and generate more prosperity. The first modern liberal state was the United States of America, founded on the principle that “all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

  66. Heavy says:

    Thanks for the lesson.

    The modern definition of liberal is someone who hates America, God and all things good. Supports abortion, gay rights, big government and always has his hand out.

    Sound familiar?

  67. richCares says:

    No, only simple minded right wingers say this. Enjoy your ignorance, but you really should lose the hate, life is too short for all the hate you display!

  68. Heavy says:

    Life is MUCH to short to let liberals destroy what many men have sacrificed their for on a scam, yes SCAM.

    THE ONE is a scammer, an interloper, a surper, an imposter and a theif.

  69. Heavy says:

    Breaking news…

    40% of all US births, in 2008, were to unwed mothers. Most of which are on welfare. I know you libs would rather abort them, but now we have to support them.

  70. richCares says:

    “what many men have sacrificed”
    I was a US Marine, one brother, US Army was killed in action, another brother, a US Marine, lost his arm. Another brother,US Navy,came back whole like me. How about you, what did you sacrifice, your mouth?

  71. Yep. Isn’t that abstinence-only ex education that Bush and the far-right called for WONDERFUL???

    Personally I think the best solution would have to taught them how best to prevent pregnancy and STD’s and provided easy access to contraceptives. Abstinence as part of an over-all sexual education programme is great, but all abstinence-only programmes do is raise a batch of pig-ignorant people who have not the slightest of what to do.

    And hey, you know what?? Having better access to contraceptives actually DROPS THE ABORTION RATE!! Countries that teach a comprehensive sex education programme (that can include abstinence) have a lower abortion rate than the United States. Imagine that.

  72. thisoldhippie says:

    The 40% rate was for 2007. Birth rates were up more for women over 20. Nothing was said about welfare. Unwed teen births were up as well. Talk to your savior, Sarah Palin. She seems to have all the answers for unwed, teenage mothers.

  73. NBC says:

    Yes, abstinence only has been a disaster. But if you had actually read the report, you would have known that the largest increase and largest group is women in their 20’s who decide to have a child without the need for marriage. She and her partner have either decided to abandon the somewhat outdated tradition of marriage or she may not be eligible for marriage until this country corrects its hard to defend position on marriage being limited to between a man and a woman. And finally, there are just women who believe that they need no support from a husband to raise a child.
    And finally the report was for 2007, Bush era in other words…

    Nice try though but for somewhat named heavy you are not much a heavy thinker.

  74. NBC says:

    I know you libs would rather abort them

    That’s just plain silly. Us libs would rather have prevented these births from happening when unplanned and us libs, for those who have made a choice to give birth without being constrained by marriage, have no choice but to respect her position.

    Your understanding of us libs seems a bit… flawed?.. I am trying to be kind here

  75. myson says:

    He (or she cant), remember (s)he said earlier in another thread, that all the pple that voted Obama are hate , all 69million of them !! so it will take a while & i suspect the number has gone up as more than half of the country supports Obama so thats like 150million pple (s)he hates !!!
    Hope tha God he’s refering to his the God that preaches & practises forgiveness & love because H sure as heaven doesnt !!

  76. myson says:

    I am a religious conservative, i believe premarital sex (sex before marriage) should be discouraged (i accept majority of the world dont share my position but i’m ok with that) & dont support abortion except in medically required cases to save the life of mother or child however i also believe that old saying ‘ prevention is better than cure’ unwanted pregnancy should be prevented with all the means available to us. God gave us brains to think up new ideas & concepts, some are bad but majority are good & benefit society more. Science should be encouraged & scientific advancement is what brings a society up. so if contraception is available use it. For those us who believe life begins when the sperm & egg meet, the best option is to prevent that meeting then life hasnt begun & a life is not been destroyed.

  77. myson says:

    I am a religious conservative, i believe premarital sex (sex before marriage) should be discouraged (i accept majority of the world dont share my position but i’m ok with that) & dont support abortion except in medically required cases to save the life of mother or child however i also believe that old saying ‘prevention is better than cure’ unwanted pregnancy should be prevented with all the means available to us. God gave us brains to think up new ideas & concepts, some are bad but majority are good & benefit society more. Science should be encouraged & scientific advancement is what brings a society up. so if contraception is available use it. For those us who believe life begins when the sperm & egg meet, the best option is to prevent that meeting then life hasnt begun & a life is not been destroyed. Abortion is thus not needed

  78. Ian Gould says:

    You know, at this point, I don’t see much point in wasting time squabbling with Heavy whenever he/she/it says something stupid and pointlessly provocative.

  79. I think Heavy is rather like the person who pokes a stick into an ant hill to watch the angry ants boil out.

  80. Heavy says:

    I love the liberal outrage. Dosen’t take much to get you creeps going.

    Rich, with such a deep and rich family history of military service, you should be ashamed of yourself. Supporting this interloper goes against EVERYTHING our military stands for.

    But, then again, liberals cannot be shamed.

  81. Heavy says:

    Actually, my understanding is quite extensive therefore my disdain for you and your ilk.

  82. Heavy says:

    What report? Do you claim to know where I get my information?

    Marriage is outdated? That explains you and the state of this country! Obviously you are also a gay marriage supporter. How disgusting a human you are.

    Liberals are easy to defeat because they are so predictable.

  83. Heavy says:

    Smoke another bowl, pops! Anyone proud of being or having been a hippie is pretty much worthless.

  84. Heavy says:

    Hey patty, here’s the best solution…Do whatever it takes to keep FAMILIES together. I know liberals hate that thought, but it works. Most of teen pregnancies are products of broken homes or teen mothers. It’s pretty simple.

  85. Heavy says:

    You bet I am, doc! I like to watch all the angry libs running around pissed off at the world. Just like the ants, they are easier to squash that way.

  86. LaLee says:

    Heavy said: “I like to watch all the angry libs running around pissed off at the world.”

    No offense but do you have any sense of irony?

    “Libs” aren’t the one who hold “Tea Party” in protest of Obama after all.

  87. richCares says:

    Correction:
    You bet I am, doc! I like to watch all the angry right wingers running around pissed off at the world. Just like the ants, they are easier to squash that way.
    that’s better!
    it’s the “wingers” that are angry and scurrying around making senseless noise!

  88. NBC says:

    A more reasonable interpretation is that it is lack of understanding as evidenced by your silly claims.
    Let the evidence speak for itself…

  89. NBC says:

    What report? Do you claim to know where I get my information?

    It seems clear that it does not come from the original, primary source.

    Marriage is outdated? That explains you and the state of this country! Obviously you are also a gay marriage supporter. How disgusting a human you are.

    Indeed, how disgusting is someone who wants to extend equal rights and benefits to all loving, committed relationships. And yes, marriage, a legally binding contract between two consenting adults, has become outdated and in some countries, equal rights have been extended to all couples. It’s the right thing to do legally, and morally.

    Liberals are easy to defeat because they are so predictable.

    Hence the election results…. Seems reality is somewhat at odds with your perspective of the world.

  90. NBC says:

    When presented with facts, Heavy returns with insults. Predictable…
    Keep up the good work Heavy. I somehow have come to the conclusion that deep down you are likely a closet liberal. We are here to help you ‘come out’. Whadayasay?

  91. Heavy says:

    Yes, it is digusting to extend equal rights to immoral relationships no matter how loving. Saying marriage is outdated is like saying LIFE is outdated!

    Liberlas ARE easy to defeat! You point to one battle. We will win the WAR. Hence my point about being easy to defeat.

    Keep bashing God and America. See how far that gets you.

  92. Heavy says:

    Well, I’d say that the “Hippie” generation is a collective failure.

    ME a liberal? Well, to tell you the truth, I was. Then I grew up!

  93. I got more liberal as I got older.

  94. NBC says:

    Well at least you had a fulfilling youth.

  95. Mark says:

    Rich,

    I am a vet also. USAF, I had it easy compared to the sacrifice of you and your family.

    I try not to get angered by this talk because anyone can type anything into a web site.

    I feel pity for the Conspiracy Theorists with their fear of everything.

    I took the Oath and I will defend President Obama, until someone can “prove” to me that is he a “usurper”(whatever the frak that is).

  96. Jim says:

    Liberals have won the popular vote in four of the last five presidential elections. There is no indication right now of a trend to reverse that in the future and although it is possible it remains unlikely.
    Recent polls show a widening gap among young voters in favor of Democrats – about 14% in the last one I know about. As the Republican party becomes increasingly one of prickly old cranks, it may find it increasingly dificult to replenish its ranks with younger voters.

  97. awe_and_shock says:

    Heavy?

    Let me try his/her all caps trick …

    HEAVY?

    opps, i mean

    THE HEAVY?

  98. AXJ says:

    Homeland Security…is this NAZI GERMANY all over again?

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