When the fake Kenyan birth certificate surfaced a week ago, it looked odd. Within hours, problems surfaced, the most humorous was the certificate number 47,044 (Obama was 47 years old and the 44th president). Then when the real birth certificate from South Australia from which the fake one was modeled came to light, the jig was officially up.
One is reminded of the 1924 movie “The Man that Would not Die” as the birthers turned on the innocent Australian bystander, declaring that it was his certificate that was the fake.
Many problems with the Kenyan “certificate” have come to light; however, in the literal minded world of the birthers, one looks for that one image, that one memorable blow, that will finally drive a stake through the heart of this hoax. I hope I have found it.
7 shillings 6 pence
The fake document was dated 1964. In the upper left corner of the certificate is the cost charged for the document, 7 shillings 6 pence. But what was the actual Kenyan currency in 1964, and if I were to tell you, what would be a memorable way to drive the point home? And the answer came to me, so obvious to an erstwhile stamp collector like myself!
1964 Kenyan Stamp, Scott Standard Postage Stamp Catalog Number 16
It is this Republic of Kenya postage stamp issued in 1964 valued at 30 CENTS! That’s right. Kenya has the decimal currency system. (Scott’s catalogs are available at most any public library for you to easily verify for yourself.)
Let me take another couple of hammer blows into the heart of the fake birth certificate. One might wonder if perhaps an old form was used or somehow the 1961 price was on the form. No joy in Birfistan. Since the 1920’s it was always pounds, shillings and cents, as shown by this stamp from the 1950’s and later shillings and cents.
Kenya Postage, 1950's
There have been so many frustrating episodes where the Obama denialists have found some way to cover their eyes, and cover their ears, and uncover their mouths to say the most outrageous things. But what I have learned from long experience is that there are points where the belief system finally breaks. There are proofs that simply cannot be wriggled out of. This is one.
The fake Kenyan certificates says pence, and there warn’t no damned pence in Kenya, not ever. Now get mad at the people who lied to you.
You forged the postage stamps. (IA)
No offense to your research Dr. C, but the piece that drove in the stake, twisted, stabbed a few more times then dragged the bloody carcass through the public square was the fearlessblogging reveal:
http://fearlessblogging.com/post/view/3037
Oh well, that was certainly important, but it images can be faked, no matter how good.
Thank you very much Dr. C for the last line of your post. This is the same thing that I repeat, with different wording, to every person I know who repeats a right-wing disinformational lie: I usually say “now what does this tell you about the person who lied to you?” It is pointless to go through life in a cycle of lie and debunking, more must be learned than just that. Why did they lie to you? What is their motive? These are the questions that have to be asked, and this blog, in the face of obstinate and mindless opposition, is doing it. Thank you.
“Since the 1920’s it was always Pounds, Shillings and cents”
Minor correction – it was just shillings and cents – no pounds. The currancy was the East African Shilling until 1966 when it was replaced by the Kenyan shilling.
Must confess I didn’t know about the cents until this hoohah so I’ve learned something new!
I thought the Kenya didn’t become a Republic until December of 1964. I guess the stamp was put out just before the end of the year.
During the period 1922-1954 Kenya, Uganda and Tanganyika issued postage stamps in Pound denominations. 1 Pound = 20 Shillings.
Kenya became a Republic in December, 1964. What’s your point?
Or is the Scott Standard Postage Stamp Catalog part of the conspiracy, too?
Yep! To celebrate the the declaration of the Republic.
Even if the Kenyan BC is a forgery, it changes little. There is still chance Obama was in fact born in Kenya. And even if Obama was born Hawaii, the question still remains what hospital he was born at. I suspect that Obama will not release his BC because it will show he was not born at Kapaloni. This would certianly be grounds for fraud charges on both Kapoloni and Obama because of the letter he wrote. This might also explain why the Obama Admin won’t acknowledge the letter or Robert Gibbs won’t acknowledge its existance. Doing so will open fraud charges against Obama should the BC be eventually released.
Part of a set called “Inauguration of the Republic”, Troll.
http://stamps.delcampe.net/page/item/id,65684290,var,Kenya-1964-MNH-Mi-15-Inauguration-of-the-Republic,language,E.html
Of course he wasn’t born at Kapaloni, that’s a town in Italy. He was born at the Kapi’olani Medical Center in Honolulu. Reading is good, Troll.
While we’re thumping you troll, point us to the presidential eligibility laws that require you to know the hospital in which a President was born.
Sorry Dragon, not referring to you as a troll. John is the troll. We should thump him hard today if he persists in trolling her.
I think a much bigger concern is if Obama was born on Krypton, or Tralfamadore. What if he has dual loyalties to another universe? Think of the problems it would cause, if war were to break out between Teflondia and Souvlakia.
What would Obama do? What if Obama fled to Ruritania, like Sandford took off for Argentina?
“Kapaloni. This would certianly be grounds for fraud charges on both Kapoloni”
Is this a Gene Wilder film discussion?
Sorry, of course, Kapoloni is the town in Italy. Kapaloni is that new birther pasta, crazy, twisted and full of holes.
Kapaloni is the capital of Teflondia.
how about fraud charges on you for spoutung bunk. Curious, why does’t john go back to his bunk sources and ask why they are lying.
has anybody seen a right wing site that that tells the truth?
Sure, there is even a chance Obama was born on Krypton. However, the facts show that Obama was born in Hawaii. The question of hospital is of no relevance.
You’re pretty desperate are you not to have non-Constitutional means used to get a duly elected President removed.
You will have your best chance in 2012 but at the rate you’re going, it will likely be 2016.
Dec 12 1964. Just like the celebratory stamp a year earlier when Kenya became independent.
Geez
It won’t be 2016 either. Corey Booker will follow.
Haha, I am holding out for Michelle Obama
Fraud can be a crime or a tort. So, sue him if you think he wasn’t born in that hospital. You’ll just need the filing fee, and enough funds to cover the Rule 11 sanctions when the claim is dismissed as frivolous.
Dr. Conspiracy:
Guess all you trolls missed the Chillocothe, MO newspaper from 1961 that had the article interviewing two Kenyans who said it was called the Republic of Kenya even then – official or not.
I think I’d just wait to see if Orly re-submits the document per the courts rules and see what happens with the authentication.
All the BS and misinformation on this blog means little (or less) since your bias clearly shows.
All that aside, though, the real issue is whether or not Obama is eligible to hold the office he now occupies – and the courts will decide that also no matter the all the BS on this blog.
John:
The guy has already done a good bit of false swearing under oath but of course the Flying Monkeys on this site would never admit that.
Gibbels won’t admit anything he doesn’t have too and certainly is not above lying through his teets as he’s demonstrated. The fool was ever declaring that the COLB version(s) splashed all over the Web was Obamas birth certificate.
The real issue, though, is whether or not the man can demonstrate that he is actually eligible to hold the office he now occupies since he has not done that to date.
JTX…How about you link us to the article…And of course the article will have the actual birth certificates of those so called Kenyans to compare with…Similar to WND saying that they had compared the Kenyan BC to others they had in their posession and it was proven to be similar…Until it was shown that the Kenyan was a forgery and all of a sudden WND agrees it is a forgery…The reason it is so easy to fool you birthers is because you so want to believe in a improbable chain of events rather than the truth, that President Obama was born here. No. For you guys you want to believe in mysterous foreign BC’s that can’t be authenticated, quotations by obscure Swiss philosphers, and a 48 year old conspiracy involving a bunch of people that somehow knew that this baby would grow up to be President. You birthers are truly pathetic. Just like Orly. If you think she will refile and some court will hear her ridiculous motion, I have a Kenyan BC that says Obama for you.
JTX, are you about to make your usual British Nationality Act claim? Or are you making your usual statements without providing any supporting evidence as usual. And as for the Flying Monkey’s, was that a 1970’s Shaw Brothers Kung Fu film? I know they had the Monkey Fist and the Drunken Monkey styles for movies, but I must have missed the Flying Monkey movie. You actually remind me of a trained monkey, repeating the same birther talking points without providing any evidence. Funny stuff…
The only flying monkeys I know of are those from the book, The Wizard of Oz, who were the minions of the Wicked Witch of the West.
You’re right, I did miss that newspaper. I was only 11 years old and I was not in Missouri at the time. However, I have never personally claimed what Kenya was called in 1961, since I don’t know. What I do know is that Kenya didn’t use pence as a form of currency. I also know Kenya didn’t gain independence until 1963.
For fraud to be a tort, you’d have to prove standing. You’d have to prove that you had some actual loss according to the fraud.
Doc
I bow to your greater knowledge – my high school Geography teacher was clearly wrong.
(spent 1/2 year on african de-colonisation in the late 60s)
I am in full agreement that proving the Kenyan BC a forgery (which has been done thoroughly) changes little. We already knew that President Obama was born in Hawaii, and have known AT LEAST since he published his birth certificate last June, and CERTAINLY since Dr. Fukino issued her public statement that the President was born in Hawaii.
While you “suspect” that Obama was not born at the Kapi’Olani (note the correct spelling) hospital, there is no reason for you to suspect so, and therefore, your suspicions only matter to those who share your peculiar delusions about President Obama.
[Doc glances up at the Do Not Feed the Troll sign.]
Regardless of what some Missouri paper interviewing a couple of Kenyans says, Kenya was not a Republic, or even independent, in 1961. In December of 1963, they became independent, but remained within the British Commonwealth, and the nation was the Dominion of Kenya. On December 12, 1964, the Dominion of Kenya became the Republic of Kenya, officially and according to its constitution. This is not opinion, it is rock solid historical fact. The Washington Post had a story around the date of its becoming a republic about that event. I will trust the WaPo of 1964 over some small MO paper any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
More importantly, independence movements had been ongoing in Africa for some time prior to Kenyan independence, and I would not be surprised if some people who were partial to the notion of Kenyan independence would refer to it as a Republic well before it ever did. This is a common event in sociopolitical uprisings and movements revolving around independence from some other nation or government.
Kenya became independent in 1963 and started issuing stamps that year.
More lies for JTX
Wrong again, he has shown to the satisfaction of Congress who determines if/when a president has qualified.
Now that he was found to be so, the courts cannot do anything.
Such is the Constitution. Does JTX believe in the Constitution?
Okay, they can donate to Kapi’olani Hospital on the understanding Obama was born there. (They might as well do some good.)
Then they can sue Kapi’olani, claiming fraud.
Then they can have their suit dismissed.
Then they can whine, stamp their feet, and hold their breath until they pass out.
It doesn’t matter what Kenya might have been called in casual conversation. The point is that the sham birth certificate was supposed to represent an official government document — and the one thing that official documents have to do is get the name of the governing jurisdiction right. That just goes along with being “official” and certifying stuff.
In any case, we don’t have to speculate because the photo of the Kenya certificate was proven to be fraudulent with the disclosure of the Bomford Australian certificate, which was confirmed by person whose birth was reflected there.
I mean, the “Republic of Kenya” thing is a strong indication of fraud; the David Bomford thing was slam dunk proof of fraud. The “punked” blog photos were just icing on the cake.
This a few days old now, but unless I missed it doesn’t seem to have been posted in the usual places:
From Salon:
“Update: Two British professors who specialize in African history have e-mailed Salon to point out another apparent error in the purportedly Kenyan document. The certificate’s header reads Coast Province — but according to the professors, at the time the document is dated, what are now known as provinces were called regions.
Writes Dan Branch, an assistant professor of African history at the University of Warwick:
It seems highly implausible and certainly a hoax. I have not seen any documents from this period in early 1964 that uses the heading of Republic of Kenya — unsurprisingly given Kenya was not a Republic until December 1964. Moreover, the label of ‘Region’ was being used in early 1964 instead of ‘Province.’ While some of the old colonial forms may have still been in circulation, which would have used ‘Coast Province,’ these would have been headed as ‘Colony & Protectorate of Kenya.’
As for his qualifications to judge the document and the header on it, Branch e-mails, “I”ve been working in the Kenyan archives on late-colonial and post-colonial history for the past eight years.””
From:
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/feature/2009/08/03/birthers_kenya/index.html
It’ s a bit moot now (although Orly’s still beavering away) but it’s the only thing I’ve seen from a REAL expert in the field and may be useful for future reference.
Hillary celebrates with Kenyans after destroying Original Obama Kenyan BC.
http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=8283014
BlackLion:
It’s unfortunate that you never learned to read.
Had you done so you’d know that I’ve repeatedly said that the BC(s), if any, are merely small bits of fact in making a legal determination as to whether or not the man is legally eligible to hold the office he now occupies.
Personally I shspect he was found under a rock and has NO BC. But that hardly matters as he (and his Flying Monkeys) have repeatedly stated that he was norm a Brit. Guess you missed that also – it can be read in many places.
Dr. Conspiracy:
Obviously you did but it’s “out there” on the search engines where it was found originally.
Having said that, it really isn’t that meaningful since the man has already told everyone who could read that he was born a Brit. And I doubt anyone gives a rat’s ass about your postage stamp hobby – and I doubt that will ever show up in court though one or more of the BC(s) might but only as bits of fact along with others.
The real issue is that the man has never shown himself to be legally eligible to hold the office he now occupies … but you already knew that and all of the spewing about the “BC”, place of birth, and personal attacks on those who hold different opinions than do you and the Flying Monkeys makes no difference at all.
strikefighter:
Very interesting but none of that is relevant to the issue at hand –
– which is that the man has never shown himself to be legally eligible to hold the office he now occupies.
nbc:
Mach nix!! Matters not!!
Kenyan dates of independence or HI swapping around their vital records naterial are not the issue at all.
The issue is that the man has yet to show he is legally eligible to hold the office he now occupies.
(must be an echo in here)
No, that really is just you copying and pasting the same sentence over and over and over…
And he was found to be eligible by the only constitutional authority, the US Congress and now there is nothing that can be done about it.
Why do you want to use anti-Constitutional approaches to have a duly elected President removed?
There we go again. A lie still remains a lie no matter how often it is repeated.
No reason to suspect Obama was not born at Kapi’olani?
In Obama’s autobiography, “Dreams of my father,” Obama wrote he was born at Queen’s Medical. Later, in a letter with a WH seal, he said he was born at Kapi’Olani.
That’s a contradiction and not a delusion.
What page number, ObotsREvil?
Sven, I have a copy of “Drams from My Father” (correct title), and that hospital thingy isn’t there. This is just one more birther factoid.
Your point?
That there is a minor ‘controversy’?
Either hospital is still on US soil, last time I checked.
And I notice, there is a slight problem with your claim.
Sad how you let yourself be used to spread falsehoods and rumors.
I would be quite upset myself.. What about you?
And it’s Dreams from my father…
And nope Queens is not mentioned in that ook.
Oops… Poor Sven
How about this, jtx, if it really isn’t about the birth certificates, quit defending the forged Kenyan birth certificates. It’s not about them, according to you, so quit talking about it.
Go to your local law library and pick up a text on Federal Courts. You seem to be operating under the delusion that if you, personally, aren’t convinced of Obama’s citizenship status that he should have to prove it in court. Our legal system doesn’t work like that and never has.
Actually, jtx, he’s shown himself eligible in the only way that the Constitution requires.
1. The American public, knowing of the issue of his birth, voted for him.
2. The Electoral College, knowing of the issue of his birth, voted for him.
3. Congress, knowing of the issue of his birth, confirmed his election.
That’s it. The Constitution entrusts each of these institutions with checking the qualifications of the President, and entrusts no other institution with that task!
Your options at this point:
1. Convince one of the above institutions that Obama is ineligible – in practice, this means convince enough voters that he’s ineligible or voting in enough Republicans that you can deny his eligibility in the electoral college or Congress next time.
2. Amend the constitution to take out the case and controversy requirement for courts or require some super-special proof of citizenship for black people.
Those are the only two options.
You’re correct, Bob. I thought he said it in his book. It was given as background and reported by UPI.
UPI reporter is rather specific here.
Greg:
I’m hardly “defending” ANY BC since I’ve said they are merely bits of fact that will come up in the court trial. The matter of eligibility is a legal issue which will be decided by the court.
You might just read the Constitution which has some requirements for Presidential eligibility – one of which reads “No Person except a natural born Citizen … shall be eligible to the Office of President …”.
The word “shall” is mandatory in this context and Obama has never shown his eligibility to hold the office he now occupies. Any BC(s) are not the issue as he’s already pubicly told all with above room temperature IQs that he was a Brit at birth.
Nonsense, President Obama presented his credentials and Congress found him to be qualified.As I and others have shown, having one’s status be determined by the laws of Brittain does not mean that one loses one’s natural born status in the US where he was born.
You continue to avoid arguments, claiming that the courts should or will hear this, yet anyone familiar with our Constitution realizes that the Courts are powerless and for good reason.
Which is why 40+ legal challenges have failed, and the few remaining will be similarly resolved/dissolved.
UPI reporter is rather specific here.
The UPI admitted it got that wrong.
The current, corrected version of the story is here.
UPI correctiion:
(This item was corrected July 8, 2009, to fix the name of the hospital where Obama was born. The original item incorrectly identified the facility as Queen’s Hospital, an error made by the writer.)
Cheney never proved that he was a resident of Wyoming and not Texas.
Just a digression. False swearing is the out-of-court equivalent of perjury. When Donofrio makes the claim that Obama is guilty of false swearing, he reveals just how terrible a lawyer he really is.
His “theory” is that Obama, having studied the constitution, must know that he’s not really a natural-born citizen. So, when he swore he was, that was a false swearing.
That’s just silly.
First, false swearing is a subjective intent crime, you have to prove that Obama knew the statement was false and Obama did not believe he was a natural-born citizen. There are two points that make it impossible to make out a case of false swearing against Obama:
1. There is no evidence that Obama believed the statement to be true. You cannot rely on “should have known” – that is an objective standard, and not the appropriate standard for perjury or false swearing.
2. Even if you could rely on “should have known,” the courts look to a reasonable person, not the reasonable birther! Even if the courts looked at the views of the reasonable law professor, Obama would walk because the reasonable law professor is going to look at the mountain of evidence, and the innumerable other law professors who have said that NBC = born here only and come to the conclusion that NBC = born here only. In other words, if you first have to convince the court to overturn a major Supreme Court precedent and go against 600+ years of American and English Common law to make your position it cannot be so obvious to any reasonable law professor that it’s a lie to conclude other than your position!
richCares, who is Hawaiian, has clarified this. BOTH hospitals in Honolulu are named after Queens, and are confused. Obama and his family have been consistent in saying that he was born at Kapi’Olani.
Corsi falsely wrote that his sister told reporters at the Rainbow newsletter that he was born at the “Queens” Medical Center.
Of course, when the actual newsletter was consulted, it turned out that his sister said no such thing. The HIGH SCHOOL student reporter said it.
But just about everyone here already knows this.
Queen Emma started a medical center that was called Queens hospital
Queen Kapi’olni started a maternity hospital, also called Queens Hospital.
the source of Queen Emaa’s hospital being the birhplace was an error in a HS news paper. That was the initial source for UPI story and was corrected here:
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/11/04/Sen-Barack-Obama-Democrat-of-Illinois/UPI-33901225647000/
so knock off this Hospital crap. Piddling Bithers got nothing!
Hey Doc-
After reading a series of posts by JTX about eligibility, it made me wonder- is there anyway you could show the first few posts by JTX on your boards? I am curious to see what he said originally- whether he was focusing on the BC then or whether he was focusing on the British citizenship bugaboo from the start. Not really important, just curious.
The first day jtx was here, April 30, they said:
“The fact is that the O-borter has himself stated in several venues that he was born of a father that was not a US citizen.”
jtx has been pretty much repeating same stuff and provoking the same responses for the last 3 months. There are some other things cycled in there about not releasing documents, but nothing much new.
One of the more remarkable quotes, from jtx, given their abundant (380) number of posts here is from last May:
“Having said that, it’s not something I wish to wast [sic] my time and energy “debating” on this (or any other) blog.”
This is a fake of the fake Kenyan birth certificate. The “47,044” and a reference to a Kenyan dish detergent belies a twisted and perverted sense of humor I find refreshing.
I understand, your own sense of humor is quite twisted as well when you make up your facts.