According to the Associated Press, five Hawaii representatives have proposed a new law that would allow the State to provide Barack Obama’s birth records at $100 a pop.
We saw previously that Hawaii Governor Neil Abercrombie’s attempt to slap down the birthers with evidence from the State Archives ran afoul of existing state law, but the legislature could fix that.
Rep. Rida Cabanilla, says the fee would help offset the extra work by state employees who handle frequent phone calls and e-mails from people who believe Obama wasn’t born in Hawaii.
$100 is rather steep, but I really would like a framed copy of President Obama’s birth certificate on my wall as a trophy.
“$100 is rather steep, but I really would like a framed copy of President Obama’s birth certificate on my wall as a trophy.”
This sounds like an opportunity for Obama’s re-election committee to make some money, too.
I don’t think it is enough. I say make it $1,000 to make it a more serious purchase and not a novelty item.
In view of the budget issues faced by state and federal governments, there should be a tax levied on birther postings on the internet. I’m not sure if it should be on a per word basis or a per untrue word basis. It probably doesn’t matter, since all words typed by birthers are untrue, including “the” and and”
It seems like they’re pretending privacy laws aren’t there. You can’t just start selling people’s birth records without their permission.
Am I missing something here? Help me out.
I agree entirely. If the birthers are stupid enough to keep asking the same questions over and over again and wasting the state’s time, it’s only fair that the state of Hawaii be allowed to soak the knuckle-dragging morons for as much as it can to cover the costs of putting up with their nonsense.
Obama’s birth certificate is private only because of Hawaii’s privacy statutes. There is nothing to keep Hawaii from changing its laws.
The hospital record of Obama’s birth, on the other hand, is protected by HIPAA.
I guess I’m a little naive here. Common sense tells me it would be wrong if not illegal to make an arbitrary law making it legal to sell an individual’s (a living one at that) vital records. Just flies in the face of what we know about personal privacy, ID theft and the law applying to everyone.
I doubt that what they are talking about would in any way be considered the same as a real B/C. Probably not a real seal, not on security paper, etc.
Sean: States can choose whether to make their birth records open or closed. Some states allow anyone to order a birth certificate. That may be bad policy, but it’s allowed, The proposal is to make an exception to Hawaii’s closed records for “persons of civic prominence”, whiich they define as anyone who needs to prove citizenship to run for office. That isn’t limiited to Obama, but could include someone born in Hawaii running for school board in Ohio, for example.
Fogbow has the text of the law
http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=5369
Old friend gary Kreep is still trying to pimp this issue for donations…I just received this e-mail again regarding this issue….
To My Truth-Seeking Patriot Friend:
When he announced that he would produce Barack Hussein Obama’s Hawaiian birth certificate, newly inaugurated Hawaii Governor Neil Abercrombie, a political confidant of Mr. Obama, said that the “birth certificate issue will have ‘political implications’ for the next presidential election that we simply ‘cannot have.'”
Too bad Governor Abercrombie didn’t take the time to investigate and see if there was a long-form, doctor-issued birth certificate on file for Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. anywhere in the Hawaiian birth archive before making that statement. Because his search resulted in an admission that no long-form birth certificate for Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. appears to exist in Hawaii.
Finally, those Americans who were convinced that Abercrombie was going to produce what MILLIONS of Americans have been asking for—Obama’s long-form, original, doctor-witnessed birth certificate would suddenly appear and a million “birthers” would be embarrassed. That was then. This is now.
Governor Abercrombie suggested in a published interview that the long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health. Questioned by the media, he admitted that his search failed to produce the elusive birth certificate.
The United States Justice Foundation (USJF) has been hammering this question home for over two years. Either Barack Obama is a natural-born American citizen, or he is not! Either a legitimate Hawaiian birth certificate exists, or it does not! This is your fight. We win it, or we lose it, now. We need your financial support to finish this battle. Because of an Obama friend, we may be close to obtaining the truth. PLEASE DONATE your best possible gift to help us to derail Governor Abercrombie’s efforts to convince other States that they don’t have to ask Presidential candidates to produce documentation to prove that they are eligible to run.
The new Governor of Hawaii, Mr. Abercrombie, told the media that: “”What bothers me is that some people who should know better are trying to use this for political reasons. Maybe I’m the only one in the country that could look you right in the eye right now and tell you, ‘I was here when that baby was born.'” Notice that Abercrombie did not say that he saw either the Obamas, or their son, only that he was in Hawaii when Barack Hussein Obama, Jr., was born… somewhere.
The Hawaiian Governor told the HONOLULU STAR ADVERTISER that he was searching, within the Hawaii Department of Health, to find definitive records that would prove Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii, because the continuing eligibility controversy could hurt Barack Obama’s chances of re-election in 2012.
Governor Abercrombie insists: “It actually exists in the archives, written down.”
However, he has NOT produced document number one—the actual, long form, birth certificate!
The United States Justice Foundation (USJF) has been hammering this question home for over two years. Either Barack Obama is a natural-born American citizen, or he is not! Either a legitimate Hawaiian birth certificate exists, or it does not! This is your fight. We win it, or we lose it, now. We need your financial support to finish this battle. Because of an Obama friend, we may be close to obtaining the truth. PLEASE DONATE your best possible gift to help us to derail Governor Abercrombie’s efforts to convince other States that they don’t have to ask Presidential candidates to produce documentation to prove that they are eligible to run.
Now let’s review what the Hawaiian Governor Abercrombie has promised. He will get to the bottom of this so it will not hurt Mr. Obama politically. He was going to, immediately release Mr. Obama’s Hawaiian birth certificate. YET, this long-form, hospital-generated, birth certificate has NEVER been produced! Do you know why?
It was, after all, one of the governor’s campaign promises. Other States expected this governor to find the birth certificate and, one way or another, solve the eligibility question: He didn’t, because he couldn’t find it. Abercrombie reminds me of Clara Peller. Remember her? She did the Wendy’s commercial: “Where’s the beef?” Where is Clara when we need her shouting: “Where’s the birth certificate?”
Could Mr. Abercrombie’s folly be the loose thread that begins the literal unraveling of the Obama stay in the Oval Office?
The United States Justice Foundation (USJF) has been hammering this question home for over two years. Either Barack Obama is a natural-born American citizen, or he is not! Either a legitimate Hawaiian birth certificate exists, or it does not! This is your fight. We win it, or we lose it, now. We need your financial support to finish this battle. Because of an Obama friend, we may be close to obtaining the truth. PLEASE DONATE your best possible gift to help us to derail Governor Abercrombie’s efforts to convince other States that they don’t have to ask Presidential candidates to produce documentation to prove that they are eligible to run.
Acknowledging that Barack Obama, Jr., has not produced a long-form, doctor-witnessed, birth certificate, Neil Abercrombie recently said that he intends to produce and release Mr. Obama’s long-form, hospital issued, birth certificate from Kapiolani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital. Governor Abercrombie added that he is upset, because several States are enacting legislation that will force Presidential candidates to document that they are eligible to run before their names can be placed on the ballot for the office of President of the United States.
THE GOVERNOR STILL CANNOT PRODUCE IT!!
If this document does not exist, as Barack Obama’s spending of a reported $2 million to block the efforts of many to get it seems to indicate, it begs the question: what is Governor Abercrombie going to produce? And, will the ink be dry on the document when he does?
In light of what is taking place in Hawaii, a million Clara Pellers should be screaming: “Where’s the birth certificate?” Remember: there was a reason why Barack Hussein Obama has spent a reported $2 million to conceal the history of his identity. All that the American people want is the TRUTH, not $2 million in rhetoric, “spin,” and legal “mumbo-jumbo.”
In fact, at the very least, the American people have a right to demand the truth, as the 1st Amendment to the Constitution of the United States guarantees us—We, The People—the right to address our grievances to the government of the United States. Thus far, our government officials have violated the Constitution by refusing to listen to that grievance… and require that Barack Hussein Obama produce the documentation that the United States Constitution requires of him.
Sadly, it appears that the federal court system will continue to shield the truth. The lawsuits filed by a myriad of plaintiffs, including those that USJF has filed, funded, or otherwise supported (6 in all), demanding that the government listen to our grievance in a court of law, have run into “judicial roadblocks” in every case. The United States Justice Foundation has filed legal brief after legal brief, funded suit after suit (6, so far, including two that we are currently handling), yet the federal government continues to stonewall us.
Please help us use Governor Abercrombie’s faux paux get to the bottom of this issue. It is very possible that Mr. Obama is ILLEGALLY sitting as the “President” of the United States. That’s why I am emailing you today—to ask you to assist us with a financial DONATION to help us to get to the truth.
I know that I can count on you. Please CLICK the green Donation button here.
Thank you for your RESPONSE TODAY TO HELP USJF to get to the real truth about Barack Obama’s eligibility to serve as the Commander-in-Chief.
Gary G. Kreep, Esq.
Executive Director
United States Justice Foundation
P. S. Nothing is quite as important. Without his original birth certificate, the available evidence shows that Barack Obama cannot legally serve as President of the United States. That means that everything that he has signed—laws, nominations, Executive Orders—in the past two years is NULL AND VOID! Please assist us with your most generous donation today. Our legal staff is over-taxed in fighting this eligibility issue. Please remember that all contributions to USJF are tax-deductible.
The United States Justice Foundation (USJF) does not have the deep pockets of the State of Hawaii, or the White House, so we will need to use the national media to run ads to lay out what we know about the Obama birth question, and to demand that Governor Abercrombie fulfill his promise. This is your fight. We win it, or we lose it, now. We need your financial support to finish this battle. PLEASE DONATE your best gift possible, to help us to derail Governor Abercrombie’s efforts to convince other States that they don’t have to ask Presidential candidates to produce documentation to prove that they are eligible to run.
To donate by check, make payable to:
United States Justice Foundation
Dept Code 5520
932 D Street Suite 1
Ramona, CA 92065
The United States Justice Foundation (USJF) is a non-profit organization, whose tax-exempt status under IRS section 501(c)(3) has been recognized by the Internal Revenue Service. Your contributions are tax deductible. Corporate contributions may be accepted.
There is no federal privacy law that would prevent release of a birth certificate, only state law which the legislature is free to change.
I still don’t understand where this so-called “admission” comes from. I have certainly seen nothing that remotely looks like an admission that no long form exists. The director of the Department of Health says there is an “original birth certificate” on file.
Before Obama came along, the debate was more about genealogy enthusiasts and the rights of adopted persons over and against concerns about fraud. I have read that states with open birth records do not have a higher rate of vital records fraud than other states although that seems counterintuitive (and perhaps that is old data).
Doc, the birthers take the WND story, and its later incarnations as gospel. On other site they still claim that Abercrombie has “admitted” that no birth certificate exists for the President. No matter how much evidence you show them that the original statement never said that and WND lied as usual, they refuse to believe it.
This is just the newest & bestest birther zombie lie that is now taken as gospel truth from one end of birtherstan to another. It doesn’t matter that Abercrombie (in a somewhat poor choice of words) said the opposite in that they have the record “written down”.
From what I hear, it’s to be a more generic BC.
One that doesn’t disclose all information, just some basic facts.
The blog called “obamas garden” had me laughing hard about it though.
There, they claim it probably won’t have a seal or be certified and therefore, be worthless.
Ya gotta laugh: We got them one certified with a seal and they didn’t believe it.
So I doubt they’ll believe this one and that many will cough up the money.
But there will be enough of them to do just this: WND, Berg, Taitz, Corsi and others.
The state of Hawaii won’t make a lot, but at least this should cover their expenses from now on for requests.
Sounds like a good idea, though I think THEY should have put it on Ebay with no “Buy it now” price. Straight 30 day auction.
That would create some buzz and much more money.
We know Gov. Lingle checked to make sure it existed. But, if I understand correctly, existing laws prevent her or any other governor from gaining access to it, much less have it released.
Am I right?
In some ways, it seems like a good idea. Hawaii found a demand that they can satisfy for a price.
The main problem is, birthers are never satisfied. Charging for the document is clever, but back up a bit. Do birthers really care about or want this document, despite what they say? Do birthers want to just verify Obama was born in the US, or do they simply want to see him out of office?
This isn’t about a birth certificate. It’s mainly about skin color.
I will pay twice the proposed amount if they would release a copy of the original birth certificate – the same type of document as Nordyke twins’ certificates.
However, it is not going to happen. Such document does not exist. Abercrombie said that his investigators could only find a “written down” evidence of Obama’s birth registration. That is not the same as long form birth certificate.
Really? And you know this for sure? Since no one has ever commented on the long form, you don’t know for sure. What we do know for sure is that President Obama was BORN in HI. Why do we know this? Because of the COLB, the index data, the newspaper accounts, the State Department data, but most of all the statement by Dr. Fukino stating that the President was born in HI. Not counting that former governor Lingle stated that the President was born in HI and proof existed of this fact. So you as usual you have nothing….
Why would you want it? Would you hang it on your wall, breathe a sigh of relief and say “I am now satisfied!”
Or do you want to check for inconsistencies that aren’t there? Why can’t the copy of the original be called a fake with a wave of the hand the way the COLB was?
Why don’t you just pretend you have it now and start calling it a forgery? That’s what birthers will do anyway- get ahead of the curve.
Once again you misquote Abercrombie and put words in his mouth. This is what Abercrombie is quoted as saying by the Honolulu Star-Advertiser:
“It was actually written I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down …”
http://www.staradvertiser.com/editorials/20110118_This_is_a_collaborative_endeavor.html
1. Abercrombie never identifies the document or documents he is referring to. You don’t know if he is referring to one document or multiple documents. He could be referring to the birth record submitted by the hospital, he could be referring to a log entry, he could be referring to the long-form birth certificate, or he could be referring to all of them. You don’t know, You have no way of knowing. Yet you persist in your lies.
2. Abercrombie never says that what is “written down” is the ONLY thing his investigators found. Show me where he ever uses the word “only.”
3. Abercrombie has never stated or implied that the long form birth certificate does not exist. Show me where he says that. A verbatim quotation and a link to it would be nice. But you can’t, because he never said any such thing.
The way I see it, Abercrombie was simply stating a fact: the archives do have record of Obama’s birth record being in their custody. It is written down. This is consistent with Gov Lingle having the DOH to personally check to make sure Obama’s BC was there.
Abercrombie was on the mission to confirm that the long form birth certificate from Kapiolani is in the archive. He was the one who (in 2009) publicly revealed the letter where Obama claimed that he was born in the Kapiolani hospital. Therefore, we should expect to find only one document in the archive as the original birth registration – the long form from Kapiolani.
Yet Abercrombie could not simply say that his investigators found this document – he could only say there is a “written down” evidence of birth registration.
What else do you need to conclude that the long form is not in the archive?
“What else do you need to conclude that the long form is not in the archive?”
A statement where he actually says there is no long form. Unfortuantely, there is no such statement. You are reading into his words meaning that is not there.
A quote from the governor where he says that the long form is not in the archive or no birth information exists for the President in Hawaii…Unless you hear that from him you are only speculating….And the last time I checked speculation is not evidence nor is it even enough for a court to issue a subpoena to investigate any further. Offically the state of HI has stated that the President was born in HI and that the records exist that proves that he was born in HI. Which means you have nothing but your unfounded beliefs…
Typical birther m.o is to invent their own reality to appease their diseased minds.
Where exactly did Abercrombie ever say he was looking for the long form? That is something you birthers claimed. Not once did Abercrombie claim he was looking for the long form certificate.
Abercrombie is very fortunate in his stumbling and bumbling that the previous REPUBLICAN administration in Hawaii went to such lengths to confirm that Barack Hussein Obama II’s birth records were in order and on file.
“There have been numerous requests for Senator Barack Obama’s official birth certificate. State law prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.
Therefore, I, as Director of Health for the State of Hawaii, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has stauatory authority to oversee and maintain these type of records, HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN AND VERIFIED THAT THE HAWAII STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH HAS SENATOR OBAMA’S ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE ON RECORD, in accordance with state policies and procedures.
No state official, including Governor Lingle has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other record in possession of the state of Hawaii.”–Dr. Chiyome Fukino [former]Director of Health, State of Hawaii, October 31, 2008.
I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawaii Department of Health, have seen the ORIGINAL VITAL RECORDS maintained on file by the HawaII State Department of Health verifying that Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a NATURAL BORN AMERICAN CITIZEN. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued eight months ago.”–Dr. Chiyome Fukino, [former]Director of the Hawaii Department of Health
“You know, during the campaign of 2008, I was in the mainland campaigning for Senator McCain. This issue kept coming up so much in the campaign, and again, I think it’s one of those issues that is simply a distraction from the more critical issues that are facing the country.
And so I had my health director, who is a physician by background, go PERSONALLY VIEW THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE IN THE BIRTH RECORDS OF THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, and we issued a news release at that time stating that the president was, in fact, born at Kapiolani Hospital in Honolulu, Hawaii. And that’s just a fact. And yet people continue to call up and e-mail and want to make it an issue. And I thnk it’s again, a horrible distraction for the country by the people who continue this.
IT’S BEEN ESTABLISHED. HE WAS BORN HERE.”–Governor Linda Lingle, radio interview, May 2, 2010.
I forgot to add that perhaps Governor Abercrombie should simply call up former Governor Lingle and Dr. Fukino and have them take him by the hand and lead him to the original, vault copy, Barack Hussein Obama II long form Certificate of Live Birth from 1961.
Governor Lingle never actually saw the document since the law prohibits her or most anyone else from accessing it. Dr. Fukino, however, does have access to it and confirmed it was in order and in the archive.
You guys still fail to use the sniff test OR pure logic. Explain a few things for me, Dr. Conspiracy. Unlike Kreep, btw, I am NOT a person that thinks that “Everything done by BHO as president is invalid.” It is surely valid.
But he surely has defrauded the American public, and you can thank Abercrombie for again making an issue. Please explain:
1) How the Nordyke twins were born after Obama but have a certificate numbered before him. It is up to 1.5+ day difference in timing. Wait, you tried that already, and couldn’t explain it. Yet people are crazy to continue to ask reasonable questions that no one has [can] answer?
2) How does Linda Lingle know that BHO was born at Kapi’olani? If the documents are protected by “privacy” laws, how does she know this? Does she have a tangible interest? Is that interest more than a citizen over whom Obama [attempts to] lord? Is that interest more than those that ran against him in the presidential race? The whole refusal to release the real, original records is an absolutely shady and illegal endeavor covered up by those who continually back this deceiving president. They have covered up and distorted UIPA as well as the current laws, which DO in fact allow for releasing such documents. Obama already gave up his privacy right by releasing the so-called COLB, anyway.
There is no record at Kapi’olani. It’s been obvious for more than 2 years to me. If there were, he would release that record (or allow them to) and not a single other piece of information would be included — that’s right THERE IS NO PRIVACY invasion by Kapi’olani confirming it officially. Why haven’t they? There’s no record.
This is the most obvious deduction from logic and true facts that can possibly done. It’s amazing that you won’t admit it and that the cronies here have resorted to name-calling because they can’t answer it either.
3) Will you not admit, as an honest man (at least this I hope), that Abercrombie was fully aware of what Lingle had said, the “conspiracies” and the stories about his beloved Obama, and that his mission was in fact a swelling of pride until he found out the inconvenient truth? Do you REALLY think he makes headlines and then bows out like a bitch just days later because of “privacy” laws? That was absolutely laughable and stinks to high hell.
Abercrombie knows, he’s embarrassed, and feels like an idiot for selling the president out / making everyone backing Obama all this time look that much dumber.
You should be embarrassed too. That is, if you don’t come clean. Last chance, Dr.
Spare the name calling and answer the questions, people. I’d appreciate it, if you can.
O please tell us what else was Abercrombie looking for in the archive – it was Abercrombie who introduced the letter from Obama to Kapiolani in 2009. This is the official version of Obama’s birthplace story.
What else could he have hoped to find in the archive if not the original long form birth certificate from 1961.
Use your brain this is not hard to understand.
Dr. Fukino was very careful in her language – she never mentioned that the original long form (Kapiolani) birth certificate is on file. She used something else as a basis for her statements – Abercrombie described it as “written down” thing.
so you’re going to avoid the question. Youre the one who claimed he said something he didn’t. You do realize the long form doesn’t change the requirements for eligibility. We know he’s 35 years old or more we know he was born in hawaii. You also know there is an even longer form than the long form. Abercrombie was looking for something in the birth records that he would have been able to legally show. He never said anything about the long form you are the one who made an assumption
I congratulate you for getting something right that some of your fellows do not.
President Obama would only be defrauding the public if he knew he was not born in the United States. He obviously has no first-hand knowledge where he was born. Why wouldn’t he rely, as would any of us, on what his birth certificate says?
Why are you questioning Obama’s certificate number and not that of the Nordyke twins? We know the certificates were numbered at the end of the process. There is no reason to think that certificates have to be in any particular order.
I cannot say for sure how Governor Lingle knew where President Obama was born. She did attend the Kapi’olani 100th Centennial dinner in January of 2009 where Obama’s birth at the hospital was applauded. That is the only public source I know of. One can only speculate about private sources. Whatever the source, it points to President Obama being born at the Kapi’olani hospital.
Actually, the law requires things to go exactly as they have gone. To do otherwise is what would be illegal.
That is your opinion, but I would trust the Hawaii Attorney General to know the law better than you.
It’s not a matter of “privacy rights.” Hawaiian law forbids the release. There is nothing about the exception you try to create.
You are engaging in unsupported speculation here. Kapi’olani has released nothing because there is a federal law prohibiting them from doing so. It is not a matter of an invasion of privacy, it is a matter of law and the law does not use such vague and abstract notions such as yours but rather concepts such as “covered entity” and “protected health information”.
Speculation is not a deduction from logic. You might say “obvious conclusion” which is perhaps obvious to you, but fantastic to me, but you are not using deductive logic.
All posters here are independent individuals and are responsible for their own comments.
Given that this is contrary to what Abercrombie actually said, your version of events is nothing but speculation.
It’s not privacy laws, it is laws regarding release of vital statistics. I could have told you two years ago that Abercrombie’s quest was doomed because of the law.
You are entitled to your fantasy. Where’s the evidence that it is anything BUT fantasy?
I’ll answer a few of Joseph Maine’s questions-
It is actually the Nordyke Twin’s certificate that is files out of order. The explanation could be as simple as someone dropping papers and picking them up out of order, or opening one envelope before the other, or they were processed in stacks alphabetically (or reverse-alphabetically). If you have ever worked with paperwork, you will know there are a million different things which could explain this, all without a nefarious origin.
No birther has explained exactly what misdeed the out of order numbering of Hawaiian birth records is supposed to prove, or why it would affect Obama’s eligibility.
It was common knowledge at the time, especially in Hawaii, + Dr. Fukino could have told her what was on the BC, + the hospital released a fundraising letter with that info.
Considering the fact that he WAS born there, what is so shocking or nefarious that the Governor actually knew and stated this?
Here you have run off the rails into full-blown Obama Derangement Syndrome. If you have any evidence of wrong-doing (and refusing to release private info to internet kooks in a form that the state no longer issues is not a crime) you should contact law enforcement and make a complaint. It is too important to further waste time posting here while we are in such a constitutional crisis.
You should understand that vital records are not part of the state archive, but are maintained by the Department of Health. Whatever Abercrombie was looking for in the state archives would not be Obama’s original birth certificate. It is possible that there is a record of Obama’s birth certificate noted on his drivers license application, or some other place, but Abercrombie and his folks were not looking at original birth certificates.
We do know; however, that the original birth certificate is safe and sound at the Department of Health because the director has signed a letter to that effect.
Her exact words were: “original vital records.” For you intellectually challenged folks, that means long form.
http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2009/09-063.pdf
“That is, if you don’t come clean. Last chance, Dr.”
Ooooh. Spooky, empty, meaningless threats from an irrelevant, idiot birther.
I’m making popcorn.
If Abercrombie was looking for something that can be legally released he could have started with the birth index data including the registration number (10641) – it is allowed under the UIPA law, and there is no need to ask for Obama’s permission.
DoH refuses to confirm this number.
Their behavior fits the scenario for unattended birth registration. They can talk generally that something exists in the archive, yet refuse to offer a single piece of evidence which would corroborate the oficial birthplace story (Kapiolani hospital birth).
There is no doubt in my mind that Abercrombie would have confirmed that his investigators found the original long form birth certificate on file, had that been the case.
I am concerned about the language I see in this discussion. The “state archives” is not the same as the the store of vital statistics. For example, George W. Bush’s birth certificate is reported to be in the Texas state archives, but this would be because someone deposited a copy there. The original birth certificates are a distinct collection.
So when Abercrombie looked in the state archives, he was not looking in the vital statistics vault.
Abercrombie never said this. You are speculating.
He never said that, and you know it. Here is what the original AP story says (December 28, 2010:
HONOLULU (AP) — Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie wants to find a way to release more information about President Barack Obama’s Hawaii birth and dispel conspiracy theories that he was born elsewhere.
Abercrombie was a friend of Obama’s parents and knew him as a child, and is deeply troubled by the effort to cast doubt on the president’s citizenship.
The newly elected governor will ask the state attorney general’s office about what can be done to put an end to questions about Obama’s birth documentation from Aug. 4, 1961, spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said Tuesday.
“He had a friendship with Mr. Obama’s parents, and so there is a personal issue at hand,” Dela Cruz said. “Is it going to be done immediately? No, the first thing on our list is the economy.”
It’s unclear what Abercrombie could do because Hawaii’s privacy laws have long barred the release of a certified birth certificate to anyone who doesn’t have a tangible interest.
Where does that article say that Abercrombie’s “mission” was to confirm that the long-form birth certificate was in the archives? It doesn’t say that. It doesn’t imply that. In fact, it specifically states that Hawaii is barred from releasing it, so why would he look for it? It’s obvious to anyone who isn’t blinded by bias that Abercrombie was looking for something other than the long-form birth certificate to release.
Therefore, we should expect to find only one document in the archive as the original birth registration – the long form from Kapiolani.
Nonsense. You really don’t understand anything about vital records, do you? There could be any number of documents in the archives, including the original birth record from the hospital records (not the same as a birth certificate, which is issued by DOH, not by a hospital), clerical records related to the receipt of the hospital information and the issuance of the original birth certificate, records relating to the birth announcement released to the newspapers, the original birth certificate, and copies of any subsequent versions of the birth certificate (in my lifetime New York State has issued at least four different versions of my birth certificate, all on different forms – I would be shocked if there is not a copy of each on file).
The fact remains that you are a serial liar. Abercrombie has never said any of the things which you have attributed to him.
Impossible. You have to proven to be brainless repeatedly.
When is your deportation hearing?
Could you show where it says that the “original vital record” is equivalent to the “long form birth certificate”?
That clarification is not included in the short press-release you referenced.
My belief is that she used this phrase to describe an unattended birth registration. She phrased it in such way to allow herself some wiggle room. Obama supporters heard what they wanted to hear and she did not have to lie.
Uh, look up “vital record” in a dictionary. It will say “birth certificate or death certificate”. “Long form” is an informal term, but it refers to the “full certificate” or “original certificate.”
I realize that birthers don’t parse English text like normal people do, and so I am not concerned if you don’t understand.
How do you know that Abercrombie’s investigators did not check the DoH files? That is the first place to start the search for documents related to Obama’s birthplace. No official has ever mentioned long form birth certificate being on file.
“Speculating” is an awfully nice word. Personally I would’ve said “lying” but after dealing with birthers for the past couple of years, it goes without saying that nearly everything they say is a lie.
Are you saying that a birth registration document for a legitimate unattended home birth would not be considerd the original vital record?
My understanding of the phrase “original vital record” is that this is the first document issued regarding birth registration and it contains signatures of people who witnessed birth.
OK Sherlock, I will ask you this question: What was Abercrombie trying to find?
He introduced the letter from Obama to Kapiolani. What else other than the long form birth certificate from Kapiolani could he have hoped to find?
“You are engaging in unsupported speculation here. Kapi’olani has released nothing because there is a federal law prohibiting them from doing so.”
You missed the point. At least you, Dr. Conspiracy, are more honest than the rest of the groundlings here at this site (Majority Will) who have to resort to name calling.
THE POINT IS: There is no privacy concern for OBAMA TO ALLOW the confirmation. In fact, he wouldn’t have had to fool anyone, or produce anything, even the online image (real or not) if he just LET KAPI’OLANI confirm. The reality is that, again, for the 20th time,
HE WAS NOT BORN THERE.
That’s deduction. If this is truly about privacy, he should have never even offered up the online COLB!!! What don’t you guys get about this?
Everything about the actions and the story stinks, and is quite obvious.
Given all the hiding and lack of forthcoming activity from ALL parties, why would I question the NORDYKE twins certs, when theirs are real original copies and Obama never let anyone inspect his, but just put an image on the internet???
You guys don’t understand probability OR common sense.
I’ve got a bridge for sale.
You have no response for the Kapi’olani thing, because it is obvious that he wasn’t born there. That’s why you can’t, and won’t, respond with anything remotely intelligent about it.
Please educate me: What is the “written down” thing mentioned by Abercrombie? Why didn’t he mention any documents you listed in your post?
When an unattended birth is reported – does it contain a written statement by a person reporting the birth?
nc1,
I love how these guys question all they can when someone else is in power, but lose the most basic skepticism about government when those they voted in occupy the power positions.
It’s quite pathetic. Beyond that, it is detrimental. They WANT to be lied to.
I’d much rather have them be honest and say, I just don’t care that he lied about his life story and actually may not have been born here.
But then they’d really look foolish.
Dr. Fukino doesn’t use birther terms, she uses Dept of Health terms. She’s made herself pretty cleat that Obama’s birth certificate is on file, you just can’t bring yourself to believe it.
I don’t question Obama having a birth certificate on file with the DoH – the question is what the origin of that document is: long form from Kapiolani or unattended birth registration?
“written down” means the original birth certificate is on record as being a part of the DOH archive.
In Dr. Fukino’s original statement of October 31, 2008, she refers to Obama’s original birth certificate being on file:
“Therefore, I, as Director of Health for the State of Hawaii, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has stauatory authority to oversee and maintain these type of records, HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN AND VERIFIED THAT THE HAWAII STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH HAS SENATOR OBAMA’S ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE ON RECORD…”
The answer to that is “none of your business”: unless Barack Hussein Obama II chooses to let you in on the actual location of his birth.
If you don’t like him exercising personal privacy, you have the option of voting against him in the next election.
Dr. Fukino has confirmed that he was “born in Hawaii and is a natural born American citizen.”
Since Governor Lingle confirmed that she sent Dr. Fukino to the Health Department records to find Obama’s birth certificate, it is obvious that when Dr. Fukino reported back to Governor Lingle on locating the birth certificate, Dr. Fukino mentioned to the governor that the certificate lists Kapiolani as the actual birth place.
How do you know what Dr. Fukino mentioned to Gov Lingle? Dr. Fukino never mentioned Kapiolani as the actual birth place in any of her public statements.
Abercrombie did not say it either – his “written down” comment most likely refers to a document that did not originate at Kapiolani.
Had Obama been born at Kapiolani his registration number would match the Date Filed -there would be no need for games played by the DoH when it comes to confirming trivial facts that are supposed to be public data.
nc1 has no honest argument to advance — no more than there is among those who deny the reality of the holocaust, evolution, global warming, etc. He is driven by racism and bigotry, and is a crazy nutter to boot.
The only proper answer is to derision.
Something that he could legally release. The Long Form is not such a something.
Ergo: He was not looking for the long form.
Again, where is the evidence anyone has asked Hawaii to confirm this info? You keep saying they won’t confirm this trivial detail, or they won’t confirm that trivial detail, but where can you show us that anyone has asked?
Then you acknowledge that Obama was born in Hawaii, as every official says? What difference does it then make whether Obama was born in a hospital or not? Is there some gain to lying about this? How would Obama know anything different than what his mom told him?
And he was born in Kapiolani- Obama says so, Kapiolani says so, and Governor Lingle said so. There is no evidence to contradict this, only the fevered twisting of clear statements and parsing sentences down to the atom so as to purposefully misunderstand them.
The birthers are otaku
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otaku
This comment was not included previously, for whatever reason —
“You are engaging in unsupported speculation here. Kapi’olani has released nothing because there is a federal law prohibiting them from doing so.”
You missed the point. At least you, Dr. Conspiracy, are more honest than the rest of the groundlings here at this site (Majority Will) who have to resort to name calling.
THE POINT IS: There is no privacy concern for OBAMA TO ALLOW the confirmation. In fact, he wouldn’t have had to fool anyone, or produce anything, even the online image (real or not) if he just LET KAPI’OLANI confirm. The reality is that, again, for the 20th time,
HE WAS NOT BORN THERE.
That’s deduction. If this is truly about privacy, he should have never even offered up the online COLB!!! What don’t you guys get about this?
Everything about the actions and the story stinks, and is quite obvious.
Given all the hiding and lack of forthcoming activity from ALL parties, why would I question the NORDYKE twins certs, when theirs are real original copies and Obama never let anyone inspect his, but just put an image on the internet???
You guys don’t understand probability OR common sense.
I’ve got a bridge for sale.
You have no response for the Kapi’olani thing, because it is obvious that he wasn’t born there. That’s why you can’t, and won’t, respond with anything remotely intelligent about it.
Joe, the vast majority of Presidents were born at home, in most cases with no one except relatives present. In most cases their births were recorded nowhere but in the family bible. Yet no one complained, then or now.
So no one cares. Go peddle your bridge somewhere else.
You deserve derision because you’re a bigot and an idiot. You will not be missed.
Why would it matter? Unattended births even then were rare, so unless there’s evidence it occurred. there’s no sense in going off on that tangent.
Being 4 registration numbers off from the Nordyke twins is pretty good evidence he was born in Kapiolani like them.
The Obama camp invited the press to inspect the COLB. Factcheck was there and did just that, even got to touch and hold it.
The original BC was inspected by the Dir of HI Dept of Health. She said the info on the original matched the info on the COLB.
As I said, Joe is an idiot.
I don’t know what it is, because the reporter didn’t ask him. More importantly, you don’t know, which hasn’t prevented you from making all sorts of unfounded accusations. However, in the other thread it was you who mentioned the “the original handwritten birth registration index.” So obviously you believe that there is more in the archives than just the long-form birth certificate, but you pretend that the long-form is the only thing in the archives when it suits your purposes to do so.
nc1 doesn’t care about facts. She is a hate driven liar suffering from too much eye shadow.
If Barack Hussein Obama II was not born at Kapiolani Hospital, what is your explanation for why a Republican Governor who campaigned for John McCain and who delivered one of Sarah Palin’s endorsement speeches at the Republican National Convention has stated unequivocably: “The President was, in fact, born at Kapiolani Hospital in Honolulu, Hawaii. And that’s just a fact. It’s been established. He was born here.”–[Former]Governor Linda Lingle (R-HI), May 2, 2010.
Futhermore, why would Kapiolani Medical Center for Women and Children allow a letter from Barack Hussein Obama II to be published in their Centennial Anniversary publication and state in that letter that Kapiolani was “the place of my birth” if that statement wasn’t true?
The President of the United States could congratulate a Hawaii medical center on being around for 100 years without specifically naming it as “the place of my birth.”
The birth registration index is in the public domain – it is different from birth certificates.
Instead of computer generated printout which can easilly be manipulated we should examine the original handwritten records. It is not so easy to insert a record in the original list.
Nothing prevents Hawaii DoH to release the original birth index – they do not need Obama’s consent.
I am sure that Abercrombie knows about it – the same lawyers who told him that the original birth records cannot be made public would have advised him what was possible to publish.
Haven’t Obama faihful claimed that Abercrombie was looking for something to release to public legally. Why is he hiding the original birth registration index?
It is a lie that anybody else other than FactCheck had an invitation to examine the COLB. WND’s White House reporter Kinsolving asked Gibbs many eligibility questions – Gibbs would always deflect them and point to the image on the web.
Why are you wasting your time ranting here then? Why don’t you actually contact the HI DOH or the FBI?
…Unless of course you don’t actually believe your own nonsense and are just a scamming con artist and pathological liar.
Put up or shut up. Go take your issues up with actual officials. No one here buys into your nonsense and you have no credibility.
Kapiolani does not say so. They refuse to confirm his birthplace. Gov. Lingle incorrectly said that DoH issued a press-release confirming Kapiolani birth.
I would take her seriously only if she testified under oath. Then we would find out whether she relied on hearsay or had a first hand knowledge about Kapiolani birth certificate being on file.
If there was nothing to hide – why did DoH refuse to confirm the registration number 10641, information that they could release without Obama’s consent.
Dr. C, there is a question from yesterday, you have not responded to:
==================================================================
nc1 January 29, 2011 at 10:50 pm nc1(Quote) # Dr. Conspiracy: Uh, look up “vital record” in a dictionary. It will say “birth certificate or death certificate”. “Long form” is an informal term, but it refers to the “full certificate” or “original certificate.”I realize that birthers don’t parse English text like normal people do, and so I am not concerned if you don’t understand.
Are you saying that a birth registration document for a legitimate unattended home birth would not be considerd the original vital record?
My understanding of the phrase “original vital record” is that this is the first document issued regarding birth registration and it contains signatures of people who witnessed birth.
=====================================================================
That no other organization spent the time to request and see it for themselves speaks volumes of how much “real concern” existed on the matter – practically none.
Gibbs answered the ridiculous questions as best he could. Folks like you just don’t like the answer. It doesn’t matter how many times you rant or ask the same ridiculous questions – it doesn’t change the answer. That you can’t accept it is your problem.
Why don’t you contact them and ask them yourself?
What are you afraid of.
Why do you waste your time asking questions here instead of asking people who are actually in charge of such things?
Why do you think we care about your delusions or your issues? We don’t.
And here is a question you have repeatedly been asked and refuse to respond to:
In the big picture, what difference does it make if someone is born in a house, in a car, in a hospital or in a field for that matter?
All that matters in this scenario is birth on U.S. soil. There are no citizenship laws that care about hospital vs home birth, etc. whatsoever at all.
It is a stupid and meaningless argument that has no relevance or bearing and only serves to show that your arguments are hollow and not serious and only meant to distract by focusing on completely trivial and immaterial non-issues.
Get a life and grow up.
It is NC1 who is the liar and it’s so easy to expose the lies.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/
Please note in this St. Petersburg Times article that Janice Okubo, Public Information Officer and Director of Communications for the Hawaii Department of Health confirms that Obama’s COLB is (and I quote her) “A valid Hawaii state birth certificate.”
I know their answer – they stick with the story that the name and the sex is the birth registration index. They do not want to comment about the reason for excluding the registration number. The law left it at the DoH discretion to release additional data (other than name ans sex) contained in the birth registration index.
If Abercrombie were truly interested to release public information he could at any time confirm that registration number 10641 belongs to Obama.
The “written down” thing scared him so he backed off.
Nice try Joey, you are not fulling anyone.
Please also quote the end of the Politifact article where she says that it is not possible to say what the COLB image represents.
I am certain that former Governor Lingle, Dr. Fukino and Janice Okubo would be happy to be deposed or to testify in person before a congressional committee of the House of Representatives looking into issues of Obama’s eligibility. However Speaker of the House Boehner, Majority Leader Cantor and the Chairman of the House’s primary investigative Committee, Darrell Issa of the Oversight and Government Reform Committee have all stated publically that Obama’s eligibility and citizenship are off the table for any further examination.
Kapiolani did the release of a confidential medical information the correct way under HIPAA, they allowed the person named on the record (Barack Hussein Obama II) to make the disclosure. Any of us can disclosure our own confidential medical information and when Kapiolani pujblished a letter from Obama in its Centennial Magazine in which HE disclosed Kapiolani as “the place of my birth” and Kapiolani published that letter, that was proper disclosure by the person named on the medical record, not the hosptial.
A hospital in California was recently fined $250,000 for releasing confidential birth information about “Octomom,” the woman who gave birth to octuplets.
The first thing we are trying to determine is whether Obama told the truth about his birthplace. If he lied about it, and the birth was registered as unattended one – it would certainly call for an investigation whether that is based on fact or fiction.
Three posssibilities:
1. He was born at Kapiolani
2. He was born at home in Hawaii but for some reason lied about Kapiolani birth
3. He was born outside Hawaii, but lied about it and the unattended birth was fraudulently reported.
Documents in public domain would tell the story. Obama does not have to give his permission. His mother’s passport records prior to 1965 would tell us whether she travelled abroad in 1961 and whether she returned to the USA with a newborn baby.
The fact that government still refuses to produce it even after the lawsuit was filed tells me that there is something wrong with the official birthplace story. There is no other explanation for hiding public documents.
The article below demonstrates just how seriously the Hawaii courts uphold patient confidentiality. A hospital employee having a feud with a woman who was a patient at the hospital, published information about her having AIDS, was fired & sent to jail. The prosecutor asked for a one month sentence. The judge gave her a year, even though she had a 5 month old baby.
I have great respect for my former colleagues at Kapiolani who do their job & just ignore the idiot Birthers.
http://community.advanceweb.com/blogs/hi_1/archive/2009/06/11/malicious-use-of-phi-lands-woman-in-jail.aspx
NC1 wants to start with a presumption of guilt and try to force President Obama to prove his innocence. In America, every citizen has the presumption of innocence and it is the responsibilty of prosecutors/political opponents to prove guilt.
Why would Kapiolani risk the embarrassment of publishing a letter naming that facility as Obama’s birthplace if he was not born there?
Why would Governor Lingle risk the humiliation of naming Kapiolani as Obama’s birthplace if that hospital wasn’t listed on the document when Dr. Fukino reported back to the Governor on finding Obama’s original vital records
I think that a federal judge appointed by George W. Bush who ruled on an Obama eligibility lawsuit put it best: “A spurious claim questioning the president’s constitutional legitimacy may be protected by the First Amendment, but a court’s placement of its imprimatur upon a claim that is so lacking in factual support that it is frivolous would undoubtedly disserve the public interest.”– US District Court Judge Clay R. Land, Rhodes v MacDonald, September 16, 2009
Which government are you talking about? The Hawaiian government? Which lawsuit do you refer to? One of the 80 frivolous cases?
There’s nothing wrong with Obama being born in Hawaii in 1961. It’s what the evidence points to.
If existing laws prevent the release of people’s documents, there is no hiding, just frustration on your part.
You fail to acknowledge the possibility that, if the official line about Obama being born at Kapiolani wasn’t true, it means that Obama was lied to as well. Do you think Obama remembers his birth? If he was told all his life by his parents and relatives that he was born at Kapiolani, how would he be expected to know anything different?
This is why you are a dishonest player. You assume that if anything is amiss about the place of birth, then Obama is guilty of lying. You refuse to consider that he was lied to as well. You are convinced of his wrongdoing, and try to twist the facts to fit your conclusion.
You are hung up on the registration number, claiming that Hawaii won’t confirm it, but you haven’t shown that they were ever asked to. If they did confirm it, you would still claim forgery or would want a confirmation of the confirmation. You are like birthers Orly, MissTicky, butterdezillion, and Polarik who want endless confirmation of confirmations of confirmations of items they also consider forgeries. Butterdezillion claims that the microfiche containing Obama’s newspaper birth announcements were planted in libraries all across the world. Polarik claims that every photo and video we have seen of Obama during his childhood and teen years are fake. Orly wanted to send in her forensic expert to examine the Supreme Court’s computer system to see if their denial of her suit actually came from them. She wouldn’t take their own word. You are now off in the same state of cuckoo-land with them.
As for his mother’s passport files, I say the more records released, the better. But you know that she may not have had a passport in 1961, so the government would not be able to produce it. But I’m sure that would only prove it is a cover-up to you.
You ignore that in the records already produced, the State Dept. investigated in the 1970’s and confirmed her son was born in Hawaii. Or is this a clever forgery as well?
I am not talking about Hawaii government but a Strunk lawsuit to get passport records for Obama’s mother using the FOIA. It’s been more than two years and the key information (records prior to 1965) is still hidden from public.
Even under the Hawaii law, Abercrombie can release the birth registration index including registration number – lawyers advising him know about it. Why is he sitting on it – he proclaimed that his goal was to release information supporting the official birthplace stiory.
It would help Obama if they could confirm that registration number 10641 was used for his birth registration.
You know their answer because you’ve spent the time and directly inquired and got that as a response?
…Or are you just guessing and making up your own scenario’s again…
Come back here when you’ve got documented proof that you’ve asked a question and then show us their actual response.
Until then, you’re wasting words as there is nothing we here can do to help your frivolous campaign. Go tilt at windmills elsewhere, where someone might be gullible enough to listen to you and care.
Simple logic would tell you that if the state of HI in any way questioned that the COLB his campaign put out on the internet for the world to see…then their officials (mind you – primarily GOP officials at the time) would not be consistently issuing statements in support of it.
*DUH*
You come across as an utter doofus every time you make foolish arguments like that.
Another possiblity is that Obama was not born at Kapiolani and maybe not in the US but his grandparents were able to get a clerk at Kapiolani to create a birth record for him that became a state of Hawaii Certification of Live Birth on August 8, 1961 and Obama doesn’t know the truth of his birth to this day. That would approximate the birth circumstances of President Chester A. Arthur who might have been born on the Canadian side of the border and only a reference in a family bible accounts for the circumstances of his birth.
That would account for Republican state officials with no desire to aid a leftist Democrat, accurately reporting what is on the original Certification of Live Birth.
Obama’s mother applied for passport renewal – that is how we know that she had a passport prior to 1965.
It would be very good news for Obama if it turned out that she did not have passport in 1961, or even if she had a passport, there is no indication that she returned to the USA with a newborn baby. It would be an easy way to confirm that he was not born abroad.
(sarcasm)
The government must be full of birthers – they do not want to release the information that would clear suspicions about his birthplace, right? They want to create problems for his reelection.
(/sarcasm)
Of course, we’ve all provided other explanations to you multiple times. Your fevered opinions and speculations are just that.
Face it, a lot of people completely disagree with any of your conclusions and don’t see things the way you do at all. There’s nothing you can do about that. In my opinion, you are barely sane and definitely not credible. I find your entire premise AND your conclusions to be completely faulty and nonsense.
Why should any of us care or listen to anything you have to say?
I’ll stick with government officials and people who actually deal with these records for a living, thank you.
Your biggest incompetence in your statements here is that you FAIL to grasp that lawsuits CANNOT be mere speculative FISHING EXPEDITIONS.
You must have solid, credible evidence FIRST before you can pursue any legal challenge or obtain any credibility in casting doubt.
So far, you birthers have ZERO in those regards….and after well more than 2 years obsessively looking….I think that speaks volumes.
Face it, your paranoia and delusional scenarios about “what if” worries exist only in the fevered world of your own mind.
The birth registration index is open to the public. Just go in and ask to see it. Guess who’s name is on it? You guessed it! Our 44th President.
Why don’t you contact his office and ask?
Why are you wasting your time here? We have nothing to do with the Governor’s office and quite frankly, think he’s shown himself to be rather naive and foolish so far.
There’s nothing we can do about your silly questions. What’s worse, we also don’t really care about some meaningless minutea and are not at all sympathetic to your issues.
G/Sean: nc1 is pulling our leg. No one could be as stupid as it is pretending to be, nor is even the worst OCD ccase in medical history as obsessed with junk as it is. nc1 is obviously a put on.
Will you not admit, as an honest man (at least this I hope), that by saying “That is, if you don’t come clean. Last chance, Dr.” construes a veiled threat or at least postures a threatening stance?
Why do you feel that if you don’t get your way, a threat is what an “honest man” would do?
Regarding the Nordyke Twins, can you you not imagine that a file may have been handled in unusual ways because it was an unusual birth? Perhaps a file was started, misplaced, another was started for the 2nd birth by another staff member, discarded or any other number of possible permutations or explanations?
Finally, can you even imagine any circumstances in which Obama is the actual, legal President of the United States?
Can you go there?
Can you entertain the notion and actually take the time to consider that you might be completely wrong with ALL of your suspicions regarding Obama’s presidential non-eligibility?
As an honest man, can you admit when you’re wrong?
Have you actually looked at all the data available in an objective, unbiased manner?
I have clearly illustrated the problem with Abercrombie’s statement. You know that he can release the additional information and chooses not to.
Yes he was indeed foolish – he trusted Obama’s word and went on a limb introducing and passing the resolution in Congress claiming Hawaii as his birthplace. Only recently has he discovered that his belief about official Kapiolani birth certificate was false. He is a big mouth – had he found this document on file, he would have bragged about it. The “written down” evidence statement is a just a CYA tactic.
No, I don’t know that at all. All I actually know is what the real reports have shown of his statements.
Funny how they don’t in any way match what you claim.
In fact, the final statement came back that his office has ended their pursuit on this and basically affirmed the same privacy act issues preventing release of info that prior HI officials have stated multiple times.
Sorry, once again, I don’t buy into your nonsense interpretation of things.
His foolishness was in making pronouncements before properly looking into the issue and realizing that he doesn’t have the authority to release anything more than what was already known.
His foolishness was in thinking that any action he takes in any way will make a difference to the birthers or convince them of anything.
His foolishness is in taking any of you birther folks sincerely and buying into your false concern trolling. You don’t really care about birth certificates and what not. All you care about is your irrational hatred of Obama.
nc1 is like Glenn Beck. Just make up your own facts if you have none.
I have one more question directed towards birthers or anyone with similar leanings.
Can you please indulge me with an answer? 🙂
If you could have any piece of evidence or testimony that would completely convince you beyond any doubt, who or what would it be?
If it was some sort of evidence, what form would it take?
Pretend you had a magic genie and this genie could provide you anything you desired.
What piece of evidence is there…. that could be displayed upon the internet for others to witness….. that would put all of your questions to rest?
Or if it was some sort of evidence that couldn’t be put on the internet, is there a person who you would trust to be truthful if they instead witnessed it firsthand and provided testimony?
Who would you believe if they said Obama was legally president, an NBC, his father’s lineage truly doesn’t mean anything, etc?
Good question, US Citizen. The problem is that once anyone, for any reason, vouches for Obama, they become part of the conspiracy, whatever evidence is now suspect, and the goalposts get moved again.
That is how Republicans like Governor Lingle, Glenn Beck, John McCain & his attorneys, suddenly become Obots and traitors.
Every time birthers have asked for and gotten “one more thing”, it automatically wasn’t sufficient.
nc1 didn’t acknowledge my my concerns about why he automatically thinks Obama must be guilty of lying if he wasn’t actually born at Kapiolani, instead of allowing the possibility that Obama was lied to as well. I can only assume that nc1 thinks:
1. Obama should be able to remember his own birth.
2. Obama is a very, very bad man and must be involved in wrongdoing every moment of every day.
Doc C- Correct me if I am wrong- Does the currently known facts support the claim that Obama’s mom applied for a passport extension in 1965, when passports were valid for two years, and there is no evidence she had a passport before 1963?
In the 60’s passports were issued for 3 years, and renewable for an additional 2 years. Stanley Ann Dunham’s extension is on file, expiring in 1970, so based on the FOIA information, the original passport was issued in July 19, 1965.
There is no evidence that tells us whether she had a passport prior to 1965 or not. FOIA search results so far released tell us nothing on this point.
That would make nc1 a troll, which is a distinct possibility.
Strunk asked for passport applications, and he got passport applications. The discussion about destroying old passport records is part of the historical record. One may reasonably conclude that the records Strunk asked for from 1965 do not exist.
A strong possibility, more likely. All the “pop ins” seem to be nothing more than trolls these days…. seems like its been that way for quite some time.
I highly doubt that any true “curiosity seekers”, simply confused and looking for answers are still out there… only the hard-core birther trolls seem to remain. And it seems that this has been the case for at least a year now, if not quite a bit longer.
Well if I use birther logic, NC won’t answer certain questions because he’s hiding something.
Answering our questions wouldn’t even cost the $10-20 claimed for the BC fee.
Yes, it would be a reasonable assumption that any birther that can’t answer such simple questions must be hiding something.
Perhaps it’s because they’re scared of the truth or looking ridiculous or maybe they themselves aren’t US citizens.
That makes complete sense too in birther-ville: couldn’t most of these birthers be foreign agents sent here to upset our freedom and democracy?
I’ve not seen any of *them* produce a birth-certificate either.
What are they trying to hide? Why not just show their BCs?
They *must* be anti-American agents. Probably communists, don’t you think? 🙂
Yes, a record of a home delivery is an “original vital record” and it is also a “long form” since the same form is used for all live births in Hawaii. The only difference between a hospital birth and a home birth is who fills out the form, and the details the place of birth and the witness…
I should stress, however, that home births in Honolulu were very rare (only 14 in 1961).
It is a lie that anybody else other than FactCheck had an invitation to examine the COLB.
Absolutely correct, nc1.
“That no other organization spent the time to request and see it for themselves speaks volumes of how much “real concern” existed on the matter – practically none.”
Irrelevant and impossible to prove on your part, “G.”
I haven’t seen you guys give explanations for the inadequacies and cover ups nc1 has presented. As usual, name calling is immediate. Heck, one of you even said “derision is the only way” — to handle these questions.
NC1, how can I contact you?
LET’S MAKE ONE THING CLEAR TOO, “conspiracy” bloggers — Obama has created every last one of these problems/issues, including any possibility for Conspiracy, REAL OR NOT.
Why get mad at us for pointing out how lacking in transparency he is? Yet he claims his gov’t is transparent? FOS and you all know it.
I’m still waiting for the health care law debates on C-Span.
Lying sack of crap and you all cover for him. Fact.
I believe this is called “blame the victim.”
Obama is not responsible for the fake Kenyan birth certificates, the fake claims of forgery in his COLB, the fake travel ban to Pakistan claim, the editing of his step grandmother’s remarks, and all the other lies and misrepresentations leveled against him and discussed in the 1,000+ articles on this web site.
Your comment is pathetic.
That works both ways, Mr. Maine.
Sorry, but you guys are the accusers. Remember, ALL burdens of proof are on YOU.
Funny how you sore losers always seem to forget that…
Maybe that’s because you have no clue how either our Constitution works or our laws works. Try to learn something someday and maybe you won’t be such a sucker barking about lost causes.
Well, we’ve been giving them. You must be willfully ignoring our responses, because they aren’t what you want to hear.
Since most of what nc1 has spewed is complete nonsense and bunk, there aren’t going to be answers, as there are no answers in reality to fictional situations.
“Obama has created every last one of these problems/issues, including any possibility for Conspiracy, REAL OR NOT.”
Let me get this straight:
Obama created problems or issues whether they’re real or not?
You must be off your medication.
Birther circle jerk fast approaching….
When two birthers speak and no one else is listening in, do they use the “N” word freely? I know that many have a tough time keeping their racist thoughts from spilling out when they post here.
Wow, ODS (Obama Derangement Syndrome) at its finest! LOL!
You folks are a pathetic joke, you know that? Back when GWB was POTUS, in those last few years a similar BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome) metastasized. Certain folks who didn’t like him started raging nonsensically on blogs, blaming him for every incident in the world, no matter how unrelated to anything Bush actually did. Bad storm…suddenly Bush’s fault. Standard crime story in the local news blotter….somehow Bush was to blame. Cat stuck in a tree…well, you get the idea.
The only difference is it took a good 3 years into his presidency – after the WND lies in Iraq started to unravel for the early signs of BDS to appear. Then it got much worse after Katrina and in his last few years in office – almost a reaction of incoherent and mindless rage, due to years and years of a string of failures, lies and disappointments.
It doesn’t matter that there were those other reasons that folks were angry or disappointed in Bush. None of that was an excuse for the BDS moments of utter nonsense, blaming him for completely unrelated and unjustified things.
Same is true with ODS. Only difference here is that ODS appeared pretty darn instantaneously in certain folks – like the PUMAs, the Birthers and the Tea Party folks. Didn’t even wait for Obama to take office. What does that tell you, honestly? That unlike GWB’s situation – ODS had nothing to do with any string of disappointments – no – it seems ODS is based in some sad, pathetic primal “rage” in certain folks that can’t accept or handle his election and therefore need to demonize him and make him into the bogeyman for all their own problems.
So, in the deranged and deluded POV of folks like you, you blame Obama for all your own problems and for all the problems of the world. How sad & pathetic.
Somehow you folks rant crazy and attack him and its suddenly all his fault? How does that work exactly? Oh yeah, that’s right. Its because you folks have no sense of self-responsibility and can only cowardly blame everyone else for your own problems, failures and wrongheaded ideas.
And then you make the laughable rants about “transparency”. Sorry, that only applies to Govt and not his personal records.
Is there a lot more his govt and admin could do to increase govt transparency further?
Of course there is.
Has his administration already taken steps to be MORE open than the one prior to it?
Or course it has.
So government transparency HAS increased. But you sad little angry folks don’t want to deal with reality and want to rant and wail and blame him for everything and turn a blind eye to anything he actually accomplishes. You have to live in denial just so you can deny giving him any credit even when he does make progress. So sad and small minded.
Oh, and your silly “health care” cry about C-SPAN? Another RW lie and just shows you don’t actually watch C-SPAN and just mindlessly repeat the lies you are told.
Hate to tell you, but most of the early days of the Health Care debate were all hadled under various congressional committees and many of THOSE health care meetings were broadcast on C-SPAN quite a bit.
You just chose to turn a blind eye to all sorts of reality and live in a delusional world of denial.
Good luck with your ODS problems. All they do is make you come across as an ignorant fool.
It is not a lie. Others had the chance and didn’t bother. Don’t you see that doubt is all the birther movement is about. It has nothing to do with getting the birth certificate otherwise the COLB would have been enough. They wouldn’t have had to alter images like Polarik did to try to claim the COLB was a fake. They make money by continuing the charade because they are enough gullible saps in the birther movement. NC1 has presented no evidence of coverups. She has presented paranoid rantings that aren’t based on reality and it shows how little she understands about how the world works. Obama has been more transparent than any other president when it came to their birth. He has released more documentation. There was plenty of debate on the health law for over a year and before that over the last 4 decades. You can’t just claim things are facts and make it so. This isn’t alice in wonderland
FactCheck was granted access to the COLB subsequent to their request. To my knowledge, there is nothing in the public record that points to an “open invitation” from the Obama campaign to view the COLB, nor of anyone who asked to see it being refused.
Given FactCheck’s track record for integrity, I wouldn’t expect many (if any) other news organization to attempt to plow the same field. It is only the irrational distrust of anything that disagrees with them, that causes birthers to doubt the FactCheck report.
Well put, G. Every time they lose an election, they think that they have the right to investigate the Democrat to the nth degree. They investigated Clinton and his wife up the wazoo and kept repeating the Whitewater lies over and over again just like they’re repeating these lies over and over again
Yes. There are some definite parallels to how they reacted to Clinton and how they are reacting to Obama…although it sure seems like their reaction to Obama is magnified to a significant degree. I guess you could say that before ODS or BDS there was clear CDS going on. Sadly, none of those others in the past comes anywhere close to the level of ODS in both unhinged intensity and how quickly it metastasized.
When Obama ran for President, I was wondering how they were going to smear him. Let’s face it, Obama doesn’t really have any baggage, no Clinton-like scandals. What do they have? He was on the board of directors with a guy with a checkered past? His church has a wild and wooly minister?
His Dad is from Africa. Hmmmm…. If his Dad was running for President, we could nail him! Maybe there’s a way we can transfer his Dad’s ineligibility on to Obama.
We’ll just say Obama himself was born in Africa! That’s it! (begin the conspiracy)
“Hate to tell you, but most of the early days of the Health Care debate were all hadled under various congressional committees and many of THOSE health care meetings were broadcast on C-SPAN quite a bit.”
Who’s deranged? They had to go to special acts of congress and not even read a bill they wanted to pass just to get it done.
The first “birthers” were those that doubted McCain’s eligibility. Fact.
Factcheck’s integrity isn’t in question. Their competence is.
Are you saying they are competent/authorized to verify the DoH document?
Yet again, and answer the question, did DoH verify any document?
NOPE. x 2
The factcheck reliance is based on sheer ignorance.
SHOW the documents and quit making excuses for the deceiver/fraud.
He’s not a victim. Again, what does he have to lose by showing?
EXACTLY.
NONE OF THIS HAS BEEN ABOUT privacy. Why? If it were, he would have told Kapiolani to confirm and we’d be done. Then he wouldn’t even have to worry about ANY SORT OF “Birth Certificate”
But Kapi’olani won’t. Why?
I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO TELL YOU TO USE YOUR BRAINS FOR A LONG TIME = HE WASN’T BORN THERE = HE is a LIAR
flat out. end of story. obvious. it’s called logic, use your brains
Dr. Conspiracy:
To my knowledge, there is nothing in the public record that points to an “open invitation” from the Obama campaign to view the COLB, nor of anyone who asked to see it being refused.
Actually, I believe that you got yourself an email from Factcheck that they were invited up, and that they were one of many organizations that had it. I read it either here or on TheFogBow. I thought it was here…
I am glad that we clarified it – when Fukino mentioned original vital records she did not exclude the possibility of home birth being a source for her statement.
If only we could get government officials to follow the law and stop obstructing the release of passport information (prior to 1965) for Obama’s mother.
And on paper using ink that can’t be:
Photographed
Copied
Scanned
That way, it makes every birther not just buy one copy and post it to the web for all to see (thereby negating the $1000 fee)
Copy of the original birth certificate and hand written birth registration index from 1961: If these records indicated unattended home birth, then passport records for Obama’s mother would have to be examined to answer the question whether she returned (in 1961) to USA with a newborn baby or not.
A special prosecutor should be named to get to the bottom of the eligibility issue.
We know that she didn’t have a passport prior to 1965 as seen in her applications
Also:
1) Kenyan travel in 1961 would have cost the equivalent of $70 K – $140 K in today’s dollars. This on the budget of two college kids; one here by the grace of his home nation.
2) STanely Ann would have had medical records and filed for a VISA in order to enter Kenya. Medical records n the form of VACCINATIONS. OH wait, one the needed VACCINATIONS to go to KENYA at the time isn’t recommended for pregnant women
VISA records isn’t private information.
So why don’t you file a FOIA request to see what VISA;s were obtained by Stanely Ann Dunham
Of course you wont because you are nothing more than a lying birther.
Document released to Strunk indicate that there is at least one prior passport application. Even if they destroyed applications for it – the passport itself would have been available.
You asked for passport records and did not get them – did you?
Government destruction of passport records had to be documented – one could not just simply decide to get rid of it. Where is the order to destruct documents? It is highly unlikely that government would destroy documents used for passport applications – it is a rich source of data. Normally passport records are kept for 100 years. The whole “destruction of records for living people” story does not make much sense.
They dragged their feet for more than two years and still could not produce the document ordering the alleged destruction. A far more believable scenario would be destruction of applications AFTER storing the data on microfiche.
J Maine is perfectly free to disagree with and vehemently oppose Obama’s policies and think he is a lying **** I fear most US presidents in that respect have been lying ****. But that doesn’t make them illegitimate.
As for nc1, he increasingly comes across as the Crypt-Keeper of the KKK (if there is such a critter). I can almost feel the spittle.
Unofrtunately for your theory at least two Kenyan officials said that he was born there, his supporters first claimed one Hawaii Hospital than another. Hawaii newspaper proclaimed him foreign born,…
Then we have to explain the Connecticut SSN, sealed school documents, COLB containing inconsistencies, public data hidden from us by government officials,….
Any single thing by itself would not be necessarily very suspicious but when you put them all together a pattern emerges: the official birthplace story is not true.
Unfortunately for your theory at least two Kenyan officials said that he was born there, his supporters first claimed one Hawaii hospital than another. Hawaii newspaper proclaimed him foreign born,…
Then we have to explain the Connecticut SSN, sealed school documents, COLB containing inconsistencies, public data hidden from us by government officials,….
Any single thing by itself would not be necessarily very suspicious but when you put them all together a pattern emerges: the official birthplace story is not true.
When George W. Bush was sued for civil damages for rape, and the rape victim allegedly committed suicide soon after, did you call for a special prosecutor?
Posting my contact information on this blog would not be very wise.
Nc1, then you don’t subscribe to the theory that both the mother and father had to be NBC?
Why a prosecutor and not an investigator?
Isn’t that suggesting he’s guilty without a trial?
And why can’t we have YOUR contact info?
Are you actually a communist spy trying to bring down the presidency?
How do we know you’re an American?
Where’s your BC?
What are you trying to hide?
If you post the info, I promise you Lupin won’t turn into a werewolf and Dr. C won’t perform surgery.
Now, why are you hiding your info if you’re a real US patriot?
Were the Kenyan officials in any position to know where anyone was born? If not why de we care?
If some Obama supporters were not sure which hospital he was born in, is that a scandal?
Two Hawaiian newspapers have Obama born in Honolulu. (was Hawaii a foreign country in 1961?)
The Social Security Admin says SS# prefix numbers have no relation to someone’s residential address, but rather where the number was processed. Conn. was a Social Security processing hub.
Are the school records sealed or can you not legally access them because you’re not Barack Obama?
What inconsistencies are contained in the COLB? Are they inconsistencies or you having a mild stroke?
You’re seeing things that aren’t there.
I’m sure you’d build a conspiracy theory out of a typo or a piece of lint.
Why is your information sealed? Why do you refuse to release your contact info and vital records?
Why won’t you let us paw through your school transcripts?
What do have to hide?
If you have something to hide, we can all assume it’s bad……real bad.
nc1 is trying to overthrow this country.
Oh goodie they want to form a club! Oh joy.
Bedsheets are indeed cheaper by the dozen.
> his supporters first claimed one Hawaii hospital than another
Actually, it does not matter what “his supporters” claimed or not. If his supporters actually claimed he was the Messiah (which they didn’t and don’t), it wouldn’t make him one.
This is argument based on non-authoritative sources. We see the same thing in Germany with the Neonazi Holocaust deniers. They take one local newspaper from Switzerland that in 1946 (?) reported that 15 million jews were killed during the Holocaust, then compare that to the 6 million reported later and say “now how did the number shrink so much”, totally disregarding the fact that the 15 million number from that single local newspaper was totally off and not corroborated by any reliable source (the paper didn’t give a source either).
As much as birthers love the term “intellectual dishonesty”, it applies exclusively to them.
> Hawaii newspaper proclaimed him foreign born
Is that a new invention or where does that come from?
> at least two Kenyan officials said that he was born there
The funny thing with conspiracy theories is that they are never consistent. Why would they proclaim such a thing publicly if allegedly the Kenyan government is “in on the conspiracy” and “keeps Obama’s Kenyan birth records sealed”?
Why did no birther try to get these officials for an interview?
Why are some Kenyan officials more credible to birthers than Republican Hawaiian officials? Especially since these officials would not have had access to the records the birthers claim the Kenyan government “keeps under seal”. Were they relying on hearsay or wishful thinking?
Why are Kenyan officals relying on hearsay more credible than Republican Hawaiian officials who actually have access to the records in question?
Notice the general vagueness of NC1s statement. She doesn’t name the officials or the Hawaii newspaper or which Obama supporters said the above. I know of the Minister of Lands but who was the other official and why haven’t birthers jumped on them traveled to Kenya and interviewed them? The MInister of Lands has no oversight over vital records so how exactly would he have come about this information? Which supporters claimed two different hospitals? All the ones I’ve spoken to have been consistent. Which Hawaii newspaper said he was foreign born? Post your source. There’s nothing to explain about the CT SSN Social Security has already stated that the numbers don’t always correspond to the states. It is a federal entity at the time they had different hubs that assigned numbers. You don’t have the right to access other people’s school documents just as I don’t have the right to see that you dropped out of the 8th grade. I’ve never seen Clinton’s records or Bush Sr’s. The only reason anyone saw Bush or Kerry’s is because someone leaked them to the press. It wasn’t the candidates choice to release them. There are no inconsistencies on the COLB. How long have you worked in a vital records office?
I think it was Lingle who in one interview said he was born at one hospital, then later said she misspoke and it was Kapo’liani.
I don’t recall seeing anyone else.
I like that nc1 puts 100% faith in two random Kenyan officials but 0% in hundreds of diverse members of Congress (just look at the Post and Email where they catalogue in a hall of shame all the responses people get from their representatives when they ask – 100% of which are “He’s eligible”) as well as state officials, many of whom are from the opposition party and would have no reason to back him if they had evidence he was ineligible.
Actually Tarrant the claim came from a high school newspaper who tried to attribute it to Maya. But as usual birthers try to inflate their stories to be more than they are. Like for instance why they want the school records. Birthers claim they want to see if he got aid for being a foreign student. This whole claim is based off an april fools day article posted on the internet.
Thank you for the correction.
I have not gotten them so far. My FOIA is currently in appeal status.
In my short and concise appeal, I presented documentation that suggests that microfilm records of passport cards probably exist. I have not been refused these records nor told that they do not exist.
I will not jump to conclusions ahead of the evidence.
Yet another birther lie.
The story about Obama being born at Queens Medical Center appeared in 2004 in Rainbow Edition News Letter, a high school newspaper. It was written by a high school junior named Bennett Guira, who had interviewed Obama’s sister, Maya. Although birthers have claimed that Guira got the hospital name from Maya, there is nothing in the article to suggest that Maya and Guira ever discussed where Obama was born. Here’s a link, if you have any interest at all in learning the truth. The article begins on page 2.
http://www.supremelaw.org/cc/obama/supreme.court/Exhibit_Charter_Schools_Rainbow_Edition_Newsletter.pdf
Show me evidence for your claim that Obama supporters first claimed one Hawaii hospital and then another. You can’t, because it never happened. The only person who ever claimed that Obama was born at Queens Medical Center was a high school student who obviously did not know what he was talking about.
There is contemporary documentation that the GAO was pressuring the Department of State to cut storage costs by destroying routine passport applications. The arguments pro and con appear in a GAO report. It may make more sense to you after you read the report. Link here:
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/09/new-hope-for-the-docs-foia/
Actually we have no information about passports for Stanley Ann Obama prior to 1965.
A visa to Kenya would have been processed by Kenya, not the United States. The US wouldn’t have a record of it. I do not know if Kenya required a visa or not (they do today).
I agree. We need to find out who is trying to overthrow the US government through the birther movement ASAP. I think the information about who is funding the movement would be fascinating.
I won’t deny that there is some foot dragging on the part of the Department of State. However, there is a fundamental difference between this issue and the dismissed birther lawsuits. The law is on the side of those seeking passport records, and so they will eventually prevail. It may take a lawsuit and it may take another year, but we will eventually get the records.
Kerchner, Berg and Taitz will not prevail because the law is against them.
Brooks Jackson, the director of FactCheck told me in email:
I read “pinged on the staff” to mean that FactCheck asked first.
The Rainbow Edition contains a student interview with Maya Soetoro-Ng, but the comment about the hospital was not part of the quoted comments of Maya. Kapi’olani was queen of Hawaii and perhaps this is the source of confusion between Kapi’olani and Queens Hospital.
In any case, Maya was born in Indonesia after Barack, and so wouldn’t have any first-hand knowledge of where Barack Obama was born.
Is that true? I’m not contradicting you Doc, just genuinely surprised.
Constant dollar calculator
http://146.142.4.24/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=70000&year1=2010&year2=1961
Buying power 1961 v 2010
And the fact that Naturalized Citizen (nc1) keeps using this debunked b.s. to bolster her deranged speculation of a conspiracy further proves her true motivations of hatred and FUD to undermine the legally elected President of the Unites States.
Birthers are un-American scum.
So that was almost $10,000 per person. Wow.
Sean,
Remember in 1961commercial air travel was most certainly NOT what we have in place today. Far fewer carriers, no “internet”, fixed pricing set by government carriers at many levels etc.
This also just into the era of the jet age so speed was slower and range was far more limited.
A probable route would have been
Honolulu – San Francisco
San Francisco – New York
New York – London (refueling in Ireland)
London – Rome
Rome-Cairo
Cairo-Nairobi (refueling at least once)
Nairobi – Mobassa
Another route would be
London – Cyprus
Cyprus- Beirut
Beirut – Bahrain
Bahrain – Aden
Aden – Mobassa
Lots of stops, lots of time, lots of money
I don’t put 100% faith in Kenyan officials. However, when you judge controversy and different claims about Obama’s birthplace it is natural to question the official story. How many foreign government officials mentioned foreign birth for past US presidential candidates?
That is why I wouild like to see several US documents, that are by law public yet the government has been hiding them:
* Original handwritten birth registration index from 1961 should confirm that number 10641 belongs to Obama.
* Passport records for Obama’s mother prior to 1965.
Release of these documents does not require Obama’s consent.
Two years and counting – you will never see requested documents. If we were a nation where the rule of law was respected, somebody would have lost their job already for playing games with the public and covering for Obama.
in 2009, snopes.com changed the claim that Obama was born in Queens hospital to Kapiolani.
Half a year after the first eligibility lawsuit was filed, a myth-debunking pro-Obama web site was confident to claim that he was born in the Queens hospital.
Don’t blame me for being sceptical about Kapiolani birth claim.
No problem, there could be two prosecutors – one investigating birther funding and the other investigating Obama’s eligibility.
I am sure Obama supporters would be delighted (sarcasm) with such a scenario.
Whatever the number, it is still higher than the amount of faith you put in the elected Republican officials of Hawaii.
For whatever reason, there was some confusion two years ago on blogs and various web sites over the birth hospital. However, since Obama released his letter claiming birth at Kapiolani and their use of it in promotional materials, it is a settled issue. Claiming that doubt still exists is dishonest.
See below regarding JFK’s visit to Ireland
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/27/newsid_4461000/4461115.stm
Kennedy also famously quipped that he is a Berliner. That’s rock-solid and more direct proof than Michelle Obama referring to Kenya as Obama’s homeland, or whatever it is that she said that the birthers twist.
I doubt there’s any serious funding behind the birthers. They’re useless to everyone.
So, wahdya think? Should Obama go to Paris and claim that he is an eclair?
> Half a year after the first eligibility lawsuit was filed, a myth-debunking pro-Obama web site was confident to claim that he was born in the Queens hospital.
> Don’t blame me for being sceptical about Kapiolani birth claim.
Occasional errors do not create “reasonable doubt”. If Obama himself had proclaimed something false, that might carry a different weight.
Besides, since Kapi’olani used to be (or was also known as) Queen Kapi’olani Medical, a mixup with “Queens” is not far-fetched.
It’s like saying “one Obama supporter site gave his birthplace as ‘Holununu, Hawai’ which is definitely a different place from ‘Honolulu, Hawaii’, so why has he two birth places?”.
That’s birther “logic” in a nutshell. It’s analogous to my five year old cousin mistakenly saying that two plus two equals five, then using that mistake to argue that addition is flawed and thus shouldn’t be taught in schools. It’s completely stupid but sadly that’s the best that birthers can do.
—————————————————————————————————————-
There was an article published in a Hawaii newspaper about an Illinois candidate for US Congress. It stated as a fact that both Obama and Duckworth were born abroad.
“Duckworth is happy to point out that she and Hawai’i-raised Punahou graduate Obama have “a kama’aina connection.”
Both were born outside the country – Obama in Indonesia, Duckworth in Thailand – and graduated from high school in Honolulu – Punahou and McKinley, respectively.
”
It was of course modified after the fact and the offensive part taken out.
There would be no need to guess and rely on hearsay evidence if our government released public documents.
If we had real journalists who actually did some research instead of writing whatever came out of their a**, then these mistakes would be much less frequent.
I will believe it when the original long form certificate indicating Kapiolani as birthplace is released. The same type as issued to Nordyke twins.
However, given the fact that big-mouth Abercrombie mentioned a written down evidence of Obama’s Hawaii birth – it is not going to happen, such document does not exist.
Did Dewey beat Truman? Apparently, nc1 believes he did, because the Chicago Tribune famously published a headline that said so. And, according to nc1, they should have stuck with the original story even up to today. Can anyone now doubt that nc1 is simply pretending and doesn’t believe a word of its own nonsense?
Wow…Modified? So a newspaper cannot make a mistake? Stop being disingenous…So now you are going with the born in Indonesia story? In NC1’s world, even though there are hundreds of newspaper stories regarding the President being born in HI out there for all to see, she would rather believe in the less than 5 that somehow claim that he was born somewhere other than HI. In other words you have 100 that say born in HI and 3 or so saying born elsewhere, we should believe in the 3 because the other 100 are obviously wrong, on the take, or scared of Obama and are writing lies. And the birthers still wonder why no one takes them seriously….The only offensive thing here is how you attempt to use obvious false information and shoddy reporting as some sort of real evidence….Pathetic….
No you wouldn’t. You would claim forgery because you have no proof that the Nordyke twins 1961 BC is even legitimate. Have the birthers requested that the Nordyke twins request their BC from the state of HI so that we could verify that their BC’s are correct and that the number they were issued was correct. That is how you try and verify evidence. Then one would look at the list of names on the 1961 Newspaper list of births, contact some of the others and see if they would be willing to release any info, or at least their registration numbers to get a larger sample size and verify what is the real order regarding the registration numbers. The Nordyke numbers could be the outlier in the sample set. We don’t know. But you take lack of evidence or proof of your wild claims as proof of some sort of wrongdoing on the part of the state of HI and the President, which is why you continue to look silly….
Link to the paper please? Proof it was modified etc?
> There was an article published in a Hawaii newspaper
So one article is enough for you to create “reasonable doubt”? What about the bazillion news stories that are plain wrong, from “man and dog have child” to “soup from East Germany designed to bring cancer to West Germans”?
You believe one newspaper stating an Indonesian birth (BTW that is something practically no birther claims) but disbelieve the 10,000 others which state Hawaiian birth?
If one newspaper tomorrow writes “Earth flat too!”, does that throw all the millions of articles about spherical Earth out the window and you immediately board a ship to find out for yourself because that created “reasonable doubt”?
I have a strong feeling that “nc1” is a troll who is only doing this for the attention.
Quite possible, but unlike many birther trolls, nc1 has remained polite throughout, hasn’t resorted to name calling, and has not flown the racist flag.
Just not in awhile. Check out naturalized citizen’s posts on the Washington Independent archives of David Weigel’s birther stories. You’ll find hundreds of the same posts almost verbatim and not always well behaved.
Old friend “Borderraven” decides that he can define “NBC” better than any judges….
1.The US Natural Born Citizen
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4777…..tizen-V1-0
The US Natural Born Citizens V1.0:
by Gerry Nance
1.- US Natural Born Citizens are children:
– a. conceived of two lawfully married parents, and
—– i. the parents were legally married at the date and time of birth, and
—– ii. the child was born in the United States, and
– b. the child is a legitimate child, not produced by
—– i. artificial insemination, or
—– ii. test-tube, or
—– iii. Petri dish, or
—– iv. surrogate mother, or
—– v. genetic-splicing, and
– c. the child is not
—– i. a stepchild or
—– ii. adopted, and
– d. the child is a direct-blood descendant of two US citizens who at the
—— date and time of the child’s birth were:
—– i. two US Citizens (per the Fourteenth Amendment), or
—– ii. two US Natural Born Citizens (described above), or
—– iii. a US Citizen (per the Fourteenth Amendment), married to a US Natural Born Citizen.
Published at: http://www.scribd.com/silverbull8
The US Natural Born Citizenhttp://www.scribd.com/doc/47774479/The-US-Natural-Born-Citizen-V1-0
WTF? That has to be the stupidest thing I’ve read. So BR is basically saying all children born out of wedlock can’t be president. Talk about unhinged.
That’s because borderraven…is a moron. He once tried to argue that the reason Stanley Ann Dunham went to Kenya in 1961 was to meet Barack Obama Senior’s family, completely ignoring the fact that Obama senior was already married to someone in Kenya at the time, and as such it would be very unlikely that the man would bring his second wife and child home to meet his first wife and child.
Oh, and she had time for this visit because her Spring Break lasted from May until September. I really, really wish I was making up that last part.
Or adopted.
Gerry Ford? Bill Clinton?
Why does it seem that every time I say “just how delusional can you be” that the birther decide to one up each other….This is just pure fantasy. How can someone even begin to justify this….perhaps he’s building on Jedi Pauly’s dream world?
I’m somewhat surprised he left out no C-section and no pain-killers during delivery.
That’s the best that you can do? A single erroneous posting on Snopes somehow becomes “his supporters?”
And if Snopes appears to you to be “pro-Obama,” it may be because Snopes has been kept so busy over the past three years getting to the bottom of the many lies which have been spread about him.
http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-q=obama&x=20&y=9&sp-a=00062d45-sp00000000&sp-advanced=1&sp-p=all&sp-w-control=1&sp-w=alike&sp-date-range=-1&sp-x=any&sp-c=100&sp-m=1&sp-s=0
That’s what nc1, a.k.a. naturalized citizen, does. She spends her every waking hour scheming about how to spread more lies. She has no real life.
I’m convinced she’s related to Orly Taitz somehow.
Organ donor.
After the past couple of years, I am convinced that “nc1” is Orly Taitz.
Agreed!
I also find it quite offensive that BR wants to also deny citizenship to children born to parents that needed medical help in conceiving or carrying a baby to term. People don’t take on those steps and their costs lightly. Just as with adoption, this is a decision made by people who are very commited to being able to love and raise a child.
Brain transplant? Or maybe hernia transplant.
Face. Keeping Tammy Faye alive. Or is it Moldovan drag queens? Hard to tell.
Google it yourself – I gave you enough information in my post. You can find cached version of newspaper page prior it was changed.
The story is old news – it proves nothing, it just illustrates that there was a confusion among journalists about Obama’s birthplace.
That is why it is important to look at public documents stored in US government archives.
Obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD) is an anxiety disorder characterized by intrusive thoughts that produce uneasiness, apprehension, fear, or worry, by repetitive behaviors aimed at reducing anxiety, or by a combination of such thoughts (obsessions) and behaviors (compulsions). Symptoms may include repetitive handwashing; extensive hoarding; preoccupation with sexual or aggressive impulses, or with particular religious beliefs; aversion to odd numbers; and nervous habits, such as opening a door and closing it a certain number of times before one enters or leaves a room or for example, a birther posting the exact same baseless speculations without a shred of credible evidence over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and . . . . . . .
“Google it yourself”
Yeah, Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross). The birther wants you to prove her insanity for her.
How convenient, convincing and cozy is that?
> aversion to odd numbers
I’ll try posting a couple of primes over at Dr Kates and see what happens. 😉
Are you sure that doesn’t violate the prime directive? 😉
(Although they may qualify more as warped uncivilization than pre-warp civilization.)
I’m sorry but I am not a board certified psychiatrist. You don’t pay me enough to support your delusions. If it exists as you say it shouldn’t be all that hard to find. Considering there are hundreds of articles that got Obama’s birthplace right compared to what a few that isn’t consusion among journalists that is an outlier. You have no right to look at any documents. Considering you’re foreign born we have more right than you do.
nc1 obviously deserves most of the bashing she gets for her nonsense, but is the above comment even factual in alleging that a citizen born in USA has more right to see documentation than a naturalised citizen. Is this really a line of argument that most of us would want to see identified with anti-birtherism?
It smacks of being as bigoted as some of the birthers. Hopefully it was just anger momentarily getting the better of the discretion of someone who usually posts sound common sense.
Agreed. Naturalized or natural born – equal rights and privileges (well, except that Article II, Sec. 1, Clause 5 eligibility part – for now).
Another e-mail from old friend Gary Kreep…I guess the birther fundraising is going full steam…Kreep in this episode is interviewed by Floyd Brown….Hilarious…More Obama eligibility nonsense…
Floyd Reports: An Interview with Gary G. Kreep on Obama and His Eligibility to Serve as US President
TAKE ACTION: Help USJF Demand PROOF That Obama Is A Natural-Born US Citizen!
Yes, I want to help USJF Fight to uphold the United States Constitution. Mr. Obama must produce valid documentation to prove that he is a “natural born” citizen of the United States to fulfill the requirements of Article 2, section I of the United States Constitution — otherwise KEEP HIM OFF THE 2012 BALLOT! Demand Proof Here
http://conservativeactionalerts.com/blog_post/show/1944
The blog comments are even more hilarious…On the level of the Post and Fail nonsense…
Bob Banton
Comment:
Every American should demand that Obama prove he is legal! I can under stand the far left blacks and the congressional black caucus because they are against everything that made America great including the constitution. Nance Pelosi let this happen in the first place proving she could care less about the constitution. Members of congress needs to uphold their sworn legal oath of office to protect the constitution and the American people.Do your job and investigate Obama!
Ed Mullen
Comment:
If Obama was born in a shack somewhere in Africa, no doctor attending, he hasn’t got a birth certificate, which, I believe, is the only plausible excuse for not producing one when it came into question. With states starting to make it a prerequisite for his name to appear on their ballots, he may have to declare himself dictator for life to avoid the whole messy issue. With trillions of dollars rolling past him these last two years, he’s certainly had opportunity to skim a couple of billion $$. Don’t forget his promise to establish a large army, wasn’t it 60,000, to police internal affairs. He may just need them!
BACH CAO
Comment:
WHY WE HAVE TO GO THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE OF OBAMA… IN 1965 HE WAS ADOPTION BY THE MUSLIM IN INDONESIA AND THE BIRTH CERFICATE ALREADY CLEAR AND VOID THAT MEAN HE I DID NOT OR CAN NOT BE A PRESIDENT … THE FIRST TIME I HAVE CAME TO BE A PRESIDENT HE SAID I HAVE BEEN VISIT 57 STATE IN CALIFORNIA… THAT MEAN PROVE HE IS PURE 100% OF MUSLIM AND DESTROY THIS COUNTRY SOON OR LATE… WHY WE HAVE SEAT DOWN AND ARGUE AND TALK NON SENSE THE COUNTRY ALREADY DOWN AT LEAST 80% WHAT MORE APPROVAL YOU WANT TO BE APPROVAL THIS PRESIDEMT IS KILL A MILLION AMERICAN FINANCIAL AS WELL AS NETWORTH GETTING WORST THE FAST WE MOVE HIM DOWN WE CAN SAVE THE AMERICAN AND THE WE’RE OF PEOPLE…. STOP TALK AND DO YOUR WORK AND MAKE THE AMERICAN WORK PLEASE…. THANK YOU FLOYD BROWN… BACH
Can someone please translate Bach Cao’s comment?
Well I’d say that NC1 should try learning more about the laws in her adopted country before spouting off about what she thinks Obama should do.
I’d agree 100% with knobs on. However that in no way addresses or alters the fact that is neither factual nor reasonable for anyone to say that a natural born citizen has more rights than a naturalised citizen to see documentation.
No pun intended, but two blacks don’t make a white lol.
Yes…it says…….. “I is for to be hating scary muslim and are to am being greateful to Ms Taitz for be allowing me to am writing her court submissions for her”
This is either an actual birther or someone sane doing an impression of a birther. It says a lot about birtherism that I really have no idea which category this falls into.
Possibly related to birther and House shouter, Theresa Cao?
Or a coincidence.
I couldn’t understand it myself but I figure it means something about Obama being a secret Muslim and all hail Orly and the other birther leaders….Seriously you have to question the educational level of some of these birthers when you read nonsense like this….
Rarely is there a statement made by a birther that doesn’t make me question their education level….or at least their sanity.
And remember that NC1’s original claim was that it was Obama supporters (plural) who said that Obama was born at Queen’s Hospital and then changed it. The only example which NC1 could cite is the posting on Snopes, which was changed when they realized that they had gotten it wrong. Snopes may have gotten it from Wikipedia, where one of the Wikipedia users had added it to Obama’s bio.
The new version:
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2006/Jan/08/ln/FP601080334.html
A copy of the original text:
http://www.rense.com/general88/fd.htm
2. Could you name few rights that US born citizens have over citizens who were born abroad?
Speaking of Kreep, his petition for review in Keyes v. Bowen was denied by the California Supreme Court. Another birther fail.
http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=0&doc_id=1963797&doc_no=S188724
This illustrates one of the largest differences between Birfoon sites and debunker sites.
Birfoon site
LIE….get caught….LIE some more…Get shown it’s still a lie…LIE some more and accuse everyone of being a liar/commie/nazi/socialist
Non Birfoon site
Make a mistake…get pulled on it…correct and apologize
So wait a second. The paper posted a correction on their article. They didn’t try to cover it up. The article clearly says: “CORRECTION: A correction on this story was published on Sunday, Jan. 15, 2006: Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., was born in Honolulu on Aug. 4, 1961. A Page One story last Sunday contained incorrect information about his birthplace.”
They corrected their error, posted a correction and said what information was bad information. As opposed to what your rense article claimed “Honolulu Advertiser newspaper caught censoring and
manipulating the news…the dirtiest kind of journalism” The advertiser did not censor or manipulate the news. They clearly posted a correction. That’s what real newspapers and journalists do when an error makes it to print. This is why the sites you frequent like WND are not real journalists.
Well lets see for starters you can never run for President. I know this makes you jealous of Obama since he can.
To further reiterate. Sites like WND don’t post retractions or corrections. Instead they change the article and don’t bother posting a correction telling they made a mistake in their article. They try to cover up their mistakes.
What is the meaning of “one doghouse”?
The “doghouse” is the (usually) enormous binder set that holds the submissions, pleadings etc
Thanks for the info.
And of course we see that the traitorous former LtC Lakin is still being pimped to get the birther donations rolling…It looks like he is the gift that keeps on giving for the birther movement….I wonder if “donations” are tax deductable…
http://www.terrylakinactionfund.com/prisondiaries.html
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