Gregory Hollister, plaintiff in Hollister v Soetoro, has put forward a story that pours salt on Barack Obama’s social-security number wounds.
Readers will recall that dentist cum attorney Orly Taitz, Esq. DDS sloppily redacted social-security numbers for Barack Obama and others in one of her court filings, announcing to the world Barack Obama’s number. Journalist Spencer Kornhaber verified that this is the number that President Obama used when registering with the Selective Service in 1980 through a public Selective Service verification web site.
Examiner.com reports that Hollister used the Social Security Number Verification System (SSNVS) provided for employers by the Social Security Administration to verify Obama’s published number with the SSA, and claims that the SSA system said, “SSN not in file (never issued)”. Following is an image that claims to show the verification (or lack thereof) for President Obama:
What’s wrong with this picture? Simply stated, what Hollister claims to have done is a crime:
Anyone who knowingly and willfully uses SSNVS to request or obtain information from SSA under false pretenses violates Federal law and may be punished by a fine, imprisonment or both.
The only lawful use of this system is “…solely to ensure that the records of current or former employees are correct for the purpose of completing Internal Revenue Service (IRS) Form W-2 (Wage and Tax Statement).” And don’t think for a minute that Mr. Hollister is going to get away with claiming that Barack Obama is his employee. It was against court rules for Orly Taitz to broadcast the President’s social-security number in the first place, just as it apparently is against the law to use SSNVS to verify it.
Faking an image like the one above is trivial, just edit the HTML and redisplay the page. But what does it mean if the page is accurate? To properly understand what the SSNVS is saying, one needs to look at the context of what else it could have responded. Here is the actual “fail” response list:
- SSN not in file (never issued).
Name and DOB match; gender code does not match.1
- Name and gender code match; DOB does not match.
Name matches; DOB and gender code do not match.
- Name does not match; DOB and gender code not checked.
- SSN did not verify; other reason.
Code 1 does not say that the reported Social Security was never issued to Barack Obama; it says that it was never issued anyone. That seems highly unlikely, since Taitz’s intrepid investigators found that the number before and after Obama’s has been issued. That leaves two explanations: either the SSNVS report above is a fake, or that Barack Obama has been assigned a new social-security number, invalidating the old one, and for SSNVS purposes appearing as if it had never been issued. Given that Barack Obama’s SSN has been broadcast to the world, it certainly is plausible that he has applied for a new one, as he is perfectly entitled to do.
Some years ago I worked with SSA in developing an automated verification interface between state electronic death registration systems and the SSA, now used in several states. One thing I learned is that the SSA is extremely security conscious, and that every transaction they process is logged — both content and IP address of the submitter. The person who supplied that image above blanked out the employer identification number (EIN) used to obtain the information, but the EIN and the IP address are sitting in a log file at SSA. Somebody is in deep trouble, and it does not appear to be Barack Obama.
1Effective 09/24/11 SSA dropped gender matching, and code 2 is no longer returned.
This unauthorized access to the SSN database may also violate state law. See., e.g., N.Y. Gen. Bus. Law Section 399-dd.
My theory is that the Social Security Administration quietly assigned the President a new number and did it as soon as Orly began publishing his number in every court filing she could. Good luck on finding the new one, Orly.
Also, if you go to the Social Security Number validator website and type in Obama’s SSN, it still shows up as a valid number. The site confirms if a SSN is valid and the approximate year it was issued, but it does not identify the individual. Such sites are reliable but their data are not updated as quickly as the SSA’s system.
Social Security Number: 042-68-4425
Date of this report: March 23, 2011
State of Issuance: Connecticut
Approx. Date of Issuance: 1976 And 1977
Issuance Status: According to the Social Security Administration,
this SSN has been issued.
SSA Death Masterfile: No record as of 10-01-2010
STATUS: THIS SSN HAS BEEN VALIDATED
Couldn’t it be as simple as a missing middle name/initial? That could make it not match SSA records and fail.
Who is in a good position to file a complaint with the appropriate authorities? This crap need to stop, and birthers need to learn they are not above the law, nor allowed to break the law in order to “save” the law.
The few non-birther related comments made here by birthers also show that they don’t believe in global warming, etc and I’m sure they share all the pathological delusions of the American right-wing. They’re beyond science, beyond logic, beyond help.
The problem isn’t as much that they’re lunatics, it’s that they virtually control one of your only two mainstream parties.
But still, it was issued in Connecticut, and Connecticut is a foreign country.
I just sent an Email with links to the article and screenshot to the SSA explaining the violation of their rules.
We know the number was issued to Obama because Susan Daniels verified it in 2009. From the Thomas Wood SS 5 we know it was probably issued in April 1977. Even if they issued him a new number, I think the Fail code would have returned as “SSN did not verify; other reason. ” They wouldn’t have erased all traces of the original number.
Anybody who really wants to know can do an SS 5 request on Obama after he dies.
Birthers disgust me.
Thanks, saved me the trouble.
> Anybody who really wants to know can do an SS 5 request on Obama after he dies.
And we all know the birthers would want that to happen rather soon than late.
“Jean Anne Whorton goes Beyond The Facts, talking to the high school sophomore who has become a conservative hero for refusing to learn his Spanish vocabulary.
Join The Campaign Against Laura Miller, Spanish Teacher, Traitor”
Say what you will about birthers, but at least they are safe from zombies.
Zombies eat brains.
katahdin, FTW ! ! 😀
This site: http://www.therightscoop.com/trump-on-the-view-obama-needs-to-show-his-birth-certificate/ needs some comments from anti-birthers. I would comment there but it has blocked me.
I went over and left this comment:
I think Ellen has done a good job already. I really love the person who keeps posting a link to apuzzo’s blog and tells people to do some research. Nothing like quoting a dwi attorney who has lost all his legal challenges to Obama in court. Apuzzo is a coward who moderates his site heavily and when he comes here to fight tucks tail and runs
I am curious what Trump’s strategy is.
What would he say if confronted with the COLB?
Let’s see his.
Trump says that he doesn’t believe the newspaper announcements. Which brings up the idea that these announcements being posted in the newspaper are not valid as proof.
I’m not a lawyer, but in order to file for a business license, you need to post that you are starting a business in the newspaper, so the public knows.
Maybe a lawyer here can help me out with this. Aren’t public postings like business, birth and marriage announcements legal evidence of an event, considering the law requires such public postings?
Trump does not have a birth certiificate issued by any of the 50 states
The Donald may know something about real estate law, but anything else is way above him.
I’m not a lawyer, either, but they are certainly evidence – how credible they are is debatable – although I’ve never heard of a law requiring public posting of births…
Good point. I guess I just assumed it was a law since it’s done by the dept of vital statistics.
Still, it’s good supporting evidence.
I agree – I wouldn’t want to base my argument on the birth announcements alone, but, in my mind, it really limits the conspiratorial possibilities in combination with the COLB, basically ruling out (or making extremely unlikely) any after-the-fact fraud or forgery regarding the registration of the president’s birth.
Misha, the staff at “The Onion” are sub contrators, they produce the WND site. Same kind of format and humor.
Right. You have a thousand conspiracies that point in a thousand directions. On the other hand you have much evidence that Obama is a guy born in Hawaii that made enough good decisions to land himself in the White House.
They can be used as evidence but if there was going to be a trial on the issue I would have something besides that to take to a jury. For example, I’d use the COLB along with the birth announcements because even though the COLB by itself would be enough, the birth announcements(along with reality) would be the nail in the coffin.
1- why does BO need two SSNs?
The published birth announcements would be admissible under the federal rules of evidence, probably under Rule 803 (16):
Possibly also under Rule 803 (6), upon a showing that the Hawaii Advertiser was a newspaper of record which was engaged in the regular practice of publishing birth announcements transmitted to them by the local hospitals or the department of health.
Well, if he has two SSN#s it’s probably because one was published all over court documents and the Internet. I’d want a new one too.
Who knows. When you have people who want to destroy him demanding things, do you give in to their demands? He got bitten once with his standard issue birth certificate.
Which four fabricated fakes are you referring to?
> 4- Since the Constitution refers to Law of Nations, why isn’t it Vattel, what other Law of Nations was present at the time?
You really believe Vattel invented the term?? You don’t know Blackstone contained a chapter “on violations of the Law of Nations” back then?
You don’t know Vattels book wasn’t translated into English until after the Constitution was written?
In short, are you really that stupid?
> Of all the thousands of English word combinations, is it real a coincidence that the Framers decided upon those three words ? If not, what other law or code existed, be specific .
The law of nations. That existed hundreds of years before Vattel.
Do you also think “Congress” refers to the Scottish bagpipe orchestra of the same name?
That’s a silly question. Did you talk to all of his neighbors from 50 years ago to see if they remember a kid from 50 years ago?
“A naturalized [citizen] is someone not a natural born citizen but made a citizen. In the US, that happens through legislation passed under the constitutional authority given to Congress to establish a system of naturalization.
“Natural born” [citizen] refers to someone who is born a citizen according to the local understanding of natural law. The specifics of this vary from country to country.
“Constitutional natural born citizen” is someone who is born a citizen of the United States according to the common law definition of “natural born citizen” in the English tradition. Most authorities would say that this includes any one born a citizen of the United States. A few authorities would exclude persons born citizens outside the US.
Either he’s lying about being a lurker (in which case he would know all of the answers – not to mention why the questions themselves are full of crap…) or this is some sad birther equivalent of ‘suicide by cop’.
The Constitution makes reference to law of nations which is a legal term, not the book. Law of nations deals with international law.
The State dept purged a lot of old records in the 80’s in order to same money.
Because it is a reference to Blackstone’s “Commentaries on the Laws of England” not Vattel.
That’s an easy one. There was no travel ban to Pakistan for Americans at the time. And you have to get your conspiracies straight, it was 1981.
Google this 1981 Travel piece article from the NY Times that suggests sights to see in Pakistan:
LAHORE, A SURVIVOR WITH A BITTERSWEET HISTORY
What type of person would abandon his fellow soldiers in time of war? (Lt Col Lakin also Benedict Arnold).
We were all asking ourselves that in 2000.
You have to ask American Thinker.
Actually only one state Hawaii, because they had a different requirement then other states.
They did not say that. Check your facts and come back with the exact quote.
Simple. Because he’s Donald Trump.
[Lurker&NBC has been banned for dumping 22 off-topic messages in a short time. They have been deleted. Doc.]
I KNOW THIS ONE! A military judge would send a US serviceman to jail for willfully disobeying orders.
B Q – A military judge.
Actually we do.
Book 4 Chapter 5.
“Of Offenses Against the Law of Nations”
And what does Blackstone say about offenses against the law of nations.
One of them is piracy and what does Blackstone say is piracy – a felon committed on the high seas.
So Blackstone – “Offenses against the Law of Nations”, piracy, felonies on the high seas.
And from Vattel
– no mention of piracy, no mention of felonies on the high seas, no chapter titled “offenses against the Law of Nations”
I swear sometimes it is like shooting fish in a barrel.
The one your referring to is a photoshop prank. YOU’VE BEEN PUNKED!
OH. MY. GOD. Doc cut him off after 23 comments – Doc must be an Illuminati agent! Thank you Lurker&NBC, you’ve made me see the light!
I can’t help thinking that getting banned was Lurker&NBC’s intent…
Uhhh, because the first one was made public on the Internet.
Good call. This was obviously just a spam dump, based on the endless list of long-debunked nonsense.
If the “Lurker…” was really concerned about these questions instead of just spam trolling, they could have spent time reading the articles on this site, which have addressed just about every myth that was raised under those points, on many, many multiple occasions.
This was clearly an agenda driven spam trolling drive-by. In light of this situation, you may wish to add to the Visitor’s Guide that such a tactic is an automatic red flag for banning.
I’m not going to put up with anyone spamming the site like that. BTW, Lurker&NBC is already trying to use other names and email addresses to try to avoid the ban.
I don’t think trolls bother with the Visitor’s Guide.
BTW, there was one on-topic comment that I didn’t delete.
As I’ve listed before, I recommend any person who seriously wants to know more about this term as it is specifically referenced in the Constitution to refer to the following useful source:
This is covered and explained in quite a bit of detail at that link. I recommend the whole article for scholarly reading, but I’ll share just the intro paragraph:
When Hollister did his check – is it possible that the SSA has a flag on that SSN and gives that answer?
And then there’s this advisory from 1981 from the U.S. State Department explaining that American tourists are welcome to visit Pakistan with the correct visa obtainable at Pakistani airports. But then, many birthers are mentally challenged, pathological liars with an extremely limited ability to comprehend simple, factual concepts. They could easily find this as I did but they seem to prefer to search Farah’s sphincter for the crap they’re spreading.
Passport Services/Bureau of Consular Affairs
Department of State/Wahington. D.C. 20520
AUGUST 17, 1981
TRAVEL TO PAKISTAN
BEFORE TRAVELING TO PAKISTAN, AMERICAN CITIZENS SHOULD BE AWARE OF THE FOLLOWING UPDATED VISA REQUIREMENTS: 30 DAY VISAS ARE AVAILABLE AT PAKISTANI AIRPORTS FOR TOURISTS ONLY. AS THESE VISAS ARE RARELY EXTENDED BEYOND THE 30 DAY TIME PERIOD, TOURISTS PLANNING TO STAY LONGER SHOULD SECURE VISAS BEFORE COMING TO PAKIS[TAN.] ANY TRAVELER COMING INTO PAKISTAN OVERLAND FROM INDIA MUST REPEAT MUST HA[VE A] VALID VISA, AS 30 DAY VISAS ARE NOT REPEAT NOT ISSUED AT THE OVERLAND BOR[DER] CROSSING POINT AT WAGHA.
ANY NON-OFFICIAL AMERICAN WHO IS IN PAKISTAN FOR MORE THAN 30 DAYS MUST REGISTER WITH THE GOVERNMENT’S FOREIGNER REGISTRATION OFFICE. EXIT PERMITS ARE REQUIRED FOR THOSE WHO HAVE STAYED LONGER THAN 30 DAYS BEFORE THEY ARE ALLOWED TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY. ALL AMERICANS TRAVELING TO PAKISTAN ON OFFICIAL BUSINESS OR FOR PRIVATE EMPLOYMENT ARE REQUIRED TO HAVE A VISA BEFORE ARRIVAL, AND, AS THE GOVERNMENT OF PAKISTAN’S CLEARANCE PROCESS IS OFTEN QUITE LENGTHY, WE WOULD URGE THOSE COMING TO APPLY AT THE NEAREST PAKISTANI EMBASSY OR CONSULATE AS FAR IN ADVANCE OF THEIR SCHEDULED ARRIVAL AS POSSIBLE.
THIS SUPERSEDED REQUIREMENTS SET FORTH IN DEPARTMENT PUBLICATION M-264, “VISA REQUIREMENTS OF FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS”.
EXPIRATION DATE: INDEFINITE.
Good call. I do admit to being curious as to what Lurker&NBC was trying to accomplish…
Even more evidence of an agenda driven malicious intent in play. As desperation mounts amongst the consistently failing birther propogandists, look for more episodes of pure SPAM TROLLING to be attempted here and at other sites.
The intended effect is sort of an annoying and extremely lame troll tactic, similar in purpose to a hacker’s Denial-Of-Service attack.
See my theory at 7:53pm, just below your comment.
It would be helpful if folks would not reply to them. [speaking to myself]
It is possible. I think the Selective Service site also has a lock on Obama’s SSN. But I still think Obama has been issued a new number, and thought so since his was compromised.
People on this site tend to have problems with that from time to time… [speaking of myself] 😉
I agree with you, I just wonder what sort of malicious effect these birther trolls believe that they will accomplish via these attacks.
That is not correct. The first English translation was in 1760, but the phrase “natural-born citizen” did not appear in English translation until several years after the Constitution was written.
Here here dr c regarding lurked/NBC. No room anywhere for buLlies but you tube.
Btw, jump to dr k for rhetorical analysis of her thanks for dr f (after some of her own leaden research.). So says dr en, be cause my sister at 2 couldnt pronounce my name. 🙂
Who knows how the deranged mind of a birther works.
Beyond the simplistic notion that they think saying the same lies over and over again will make them true or make people start to doubt and fall for their brainwashing?
Maybe they think if they can sneak a birther talking point on here without someone shooting “that particular occurance” of their nonsense down, that somehow it is a “victory” for them? …Sort of in the Charlie Sheen “winning” vein of stupidity, I guess…
Or merely being a TROLL for the sake of being a troll…and not realizing what an *ss that makes them out to be…
Who really knows. I’m not sure they are clever enough to think beyond those type of simple concepts as a goal…or realize how meaningless such attempts are.
Heck, these zombies are so devoid of logic that we might be giving them too much credit by even positing that they have a real purpose in doing so.
It could simply be that ODS has so infected their lives that every waking moment of theirs is a rabid and wild-eyed frothing at the mouth at the mere thought of Obama’s existence… leaving them with an uncontrollable obsession to have to constantly seek out places to post their birther screed that they view as “the enemy”. Maybe its the only pressure release they have from their dull and otherwise completely unhappy and insecure little hate and fear driven lives….
No one (until we can find a birther introspective, honest, and perceptive enough to understand – I suspect that some sort of paradox is involved here…), but what is this site for if not to speculate? 😉
I think that the birther sojourns here are some sort of sad attempts at ‘counting coup’ in the birthers’ minds – to either make an assertion which isn’t refuted or be banned in an attempt to do so. I guess if they are successful they think it will lead to the removal of the evil usurper (via some sort of ‘Underpants Gnomes’ logic…).
I agree, except that I don’t think they are even serious about ‘removal of the evil usurper’.
For most, it is just a game within their pathetic group of online communicates, and getting banned is their mark of honor within that group. They’ve just picked this topic because they can get attention.
For a few, it is an orchestrated propaganda campaign to try to introduce FUD into the political system and create maximum distraction for the maximum time. They consciously encourage the previous group as part of that propaganda campaign.
Even fewer are serious. They are probably just insane.
The troll was wrong, anyway. Trump is a registered Republican, although he has changed party affiliations as often as he has filed for bankruptcy.
I was looking for something else and came across the following Century 21 real estate listing:
Look at the Honolulu condo’s zip code. 06815, that is the zip code for Hamden, Connecticut.
That proves it: Obama was born in Mombasa and not in his father’s ancestral village, because only from Mombasa could be brought by boat to Hamden, Connecticut.
That and the Tardis is full of nails for coffins.
No. The zip for Hamden, Connecticut is 06518, not 06815.
Yup, 06815 is not a valid zipcode.
Here,s more pure birtherism regarding the 1981 Pakistan travel. Why would he go to visit that country anyway? He went to visit/meet the wealthy father of his college roommate(and to party at a huge summer festival). He had inside pullthat could navigate travel restrictions that were cultural, linguistic, political, and, apparently, wealthy.
Why he was paired to live with a rich Pakistani Muslim boy at occidental may be part of the reason his college records are sealed.
(This narrative eventually gets him a degree from Columbia, though actually attending another of it is sister schools, as elaborated by dr m. So if thats the case the pull goes deeper and longer than most here care to speculate. New Ssn, backdated selective service, missing destroyed passport records, executive order number one to seal all records–easy peasy lemon squeezy)
whoopie goldberg like this board can’t HANDLE THE TRUTH
evidence that BO lied
post more out of whack dates that don’t match up
post more lies that don’t add up
BO is a fraud !!!
a mountain of evidence was posted here , and not one single post out of 36 points had a legitimate response
except it is out of context
that is the best you can do
It is obvious that the Governor’s small piece of paper that he found in BO’s file is the newspaper article showing an address that OBAMA never lived at, not a real birth certificate. An address that neighbors living there for over sixty years never remembered Obama living there.
The curtain is closing, will BO produce the real deal , or another fake like the four other fakes he posted ??
BO transparency ? He lied about obamacare (no death panels, no cost increases, giving away 1000s of exemptions), he lied about stimulus (“pass this bill and it will lower unemploymenti to 10%, pass this bill it will save or create 2-3 million jobs….when it eventually lost over 8million. Now that Bush tax cuts have extended as well as less taxation and more business friendly legislature from the GOP we are finally seeing lesser unemployment numbers, his adm is with holding evidence from Issa, and he can’t show a birth certificate. Why is that? BECAUSE HE DOES NOT HAVE ONE !!!!
remember in 2012
throw this clown out
AUGUST 17, 1981
TRAVEL TO PAKISTAN
another lie and fabrication by the Obots here to try and cover up for
their constitution buster hero
why do you hate the constitution so much ?
OBOTS try to change the immigration LAW
from parents to parents
why do the OBOTS want to change history????
lying flat mat rastards
can’t stand the constitution, cover up for barry ????????
*from parents……to parent ……singular, sound familiar ??????
note all the responses above requiring natural born citizen
to have TWO parents as US citizens
as so adroitly pointed out by the nazi crone censoring this board !!
BO is outed again by the Democrat TRUMP !!
3 million dollars spent to hide a $10 birth certificate that doesn’t exit
two Kenya ambassadors saying obama was borne in Kenya
Alan Keyes saying Obama admitted that he was not qualified to be president
during Senate debates in Illinois
a growing mountain of evidence against the constitution and the law of the land
shame on all of you for covering up for this fake and fraud
Thank you for a textbook example of clinical insanity. Get help.
Then your conspiracy must include the U.S. State Department under the administration of President Ronald Reagan.
Yeah, that’s a great way to be taken seriously.
How widespread is dyslexia?
Poor sad little birfoon, off the lithium again, it’s pitiful what happens with the mentally challenged.
Never mind, with the new health care programs coming on line your parents now will be able to get you back on their heathcare coverage and hopefully get you the care you so plainly need
> It is obvious that the Governor’s small piece of paper that he found in BO’s file is the newspaper article showing an address that OBAMA never lived at
Whoa, we have a new Nostradamus here (including the understandability). You actually know precidely what Abercrombie found, without him saying anything? Are you psychic? Or psycho, rather?
> TRAVEL TO PAKISTAN
> another lie and fabrication by the Obots
Care to back up your “argument” with facts?
> 3 million dollars spent
Why, isn’t it 4 million already? It’s already been a month since you idiots invented the 3 million, didn’t the guys who do the thinking for you tell you to double the number every 4 weeks? You’re a lousy apprentice birther! One more fail and you’re fired from bitherstan.
> two Kenya ambassadors saying obama was borne in Kenya
Are you another of those North Korean agents or why are you unable to write a single English sentence without at least 3 major errors? (it’s “two Kenyan”, “Obama” and “born”)
> Alan Keyes saying Obama admitted that he was not qualified to be president
during Senate debates in Illinois
Why do you need Alan Keyes “saying” anything? The whole exchange is on YouTube! And Obama did not “admit he was not qualified”. He simply said, when the issue of his Kenyan father came up, that he didn’t run for President then, so there was no need to discuss his natural born citizenship. He didn’t say he wasn’t an NBC.
Obviously you believe the 3rd level paraphrasing of others more than the first-hand literal source and treat the former as gospel while ignoring the latter.
> shame on all of you for covering up for this fake and fraud
Shame on you for pretending to be dumber than a piece of wood.
Wood is useful.
Why was a tea totaling Southern Baptist (back then) like me paired with an alcoholic? Obama’s college records “sealed” are sealed just like mine are. They both have this big stamp on the folder saying “NOYB.”
And he’s not pretending.
E Glenn: College roomate pairings, at least for freshmen, are usually done randomly by the college Housing Office. You might know that if you had studied a bit in high school and managed to graduate.
As for going to Pakistan, there is nothing unusual about a young college student taking advantage of an opportunity that presented itself for an interesting, exotic trip. Pakistan was really not a dangerous place for an American in those days, outside of the Afghan border region and some bad neighborhoods in Karachi. Islamabad was definitely much safer than NYC in 1980. As for the State Dept travel warning, here is the current list http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_1764.html. Mexico is on it, yet millions of Americans go there every year. Just as in the US, you need to use common sense as to where to avoid. Israel is on the list too, yet plenty of Americans go there.
The idea that Obama had strings pulled to get into Occidental and Columbia is silly. He was a half black, half white graduate of the top prep school in Hawaiii and played a decent game of basketball. How many students like that were there in his year? Try one (him). Admissions directors would kill to get someone llike that. Does that mean he benefitted from affirmative action? Perhaps, but so did Bush Jr, FDR and a host of others who were legacy admissions. Anyway, don’t expect that to show up in his college records. You would need a stack of subpoenas to get any college to disclose why they admitted a particular student.
As for Manning’s CIA allegations, I know whether Obama was in the CIA, but if I told you, I’d have to kill you. But so what if he was? Bush Sr was not only in the CIA, he ran the place.
Finally, I don’t trust people who use their first initial and their middle name (Like G Gordon Liddy or H Robert Haldeman). What does the E stand for?. What are you hiiding?
Travel to pakistan? So you’re saying the government saying back in the 80s that one could travel to pakistan with no problems is a lie and fabrication?
The only lie and fabrication is that there was an actual travel ban.
Ah continued BS. Do you have any proof he spent 3 million dollars? It has never been US policy that you need 2 US citizen parents to be a US citizen let alone Natural Born Citizen if you are born on US Soil. Trump a democrat? Surely you’re joking.
2 kenyan ambassadors? Care to name them?
Alan Keyes never said that. His own staff has stated the exchange never took place and a full watching of the debate shows it never was said. Birthers have already claimed it was “scrubbed” from the internet and archival copies of the debate.
I really don’t know what to say about birthers. You do realize you’re pointing to something Orly Taitz filed? The same woman who can’t even file the most basic requirements of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. All that you pointed to is more proof that Orly is not yet done wasting the precious resourses of the court, and wasting our tax dollars my making the DoJ have to file yet another Motion to Dismiss that will be granted?
More random sillyness from another birther…..reminds me of “we will have Obama out of the White House in 60 days.” That was two years ago.
I used a bad website for the lookup , instead of the USPS.
Yes….we’ve heard this oft repeated birther lie quite a bit. Good thing most of us people in the reality based worl recognize that there has never been a requirement for any parent to be a citizen for children born within the borders of the US, and there is no evidence to support the claim that there was ever a requirment for even a single parent to be a citizen.
Pointing to birther websites is pretty meaningless, and does not carry the authority of law, and isn’t even on par with pointing to a law journal article…heck, even a student note in a law journal carries more weight. But you can’t, since it was never required in US history.
Yes, you aptly described the birther pattern of success there. Amazing you haven’t developed a complex yet.
Sure he has………whatever helps you sleep at night.
Amazing what statements one can make when they’re not required to provide any evidence. Too bad there isn’t any proof that he has spent $10 to hide anything…which he wouldn’t have to “hide” anyway, because privacy laws prevent it from being released.
Except it was one ambassador, who the very next day retracted his statements saying his was referring to Obama’s father….but hey, why be burdened by the truth now, since it hasn’t gotten in the way of your other statements?
Except President Obama never “admittted” such a thing, and Ambassador Keyes never claimed he did. You would think that while he was suing the President over it, he might has mentioned it in his filings…yet he never did. Oh, and the whole debate is on Youtube…feel free to check it out and try to find it there.
Yes, there is a growing body of evidence that birthers have a total disregard for the consitution and the law of the land. Fortunately the courts have upheld both in their recognition that birther don’t have a shred of evidence to support their spurious claims, and have smacked them time every chance.
It is a shame that our President has to endure the insulting attacks of wholly ungovernable, unpatriotic, and unAmerican birthers. You see in the polite world, accusations of being a fake and fraud usually require at least some evidence (really, how can we cover anything up, when you have yet to come forward with anything substanative?).
Funny…there’s a “nazi crone censoring this board” and yet is insane rantings were posted. Any yet, whenever I try to post on the boards of those freedom and constitution loving birther cites, 9 times out of 10, my post never gets past moderation……hmmmm….funny how that works.
What’s wrong with being a wealthy Pakistani Muslim?
Are simple minded bigots claiming they all inherently evil? Is that the inSINuation?
Keep feeding the Dark Side with more evil.
Crones can grow beards! Who knew?
Here’s an amusing side note: the map shown on that uszip.com page is not Connecticut — it’s the vicinity of Sao Paulo, Brazil.
And Obama was just in Brazil. Coincidence or conspiracy?
Well, they’ve since closed for comments, but I thought you would all enjoy the shock value of this thinkly veiled bigoted comment:
TexasT 16 hours ago
Come on man! It wouldn’t matter what BS his Chicago gang drew up for him. Those of us who somehow can see through the veil, know he’s not an American.
OBOTS try to change the immigration LAW
from parents to parents
why do the OBOTS want to change history????
lying flat mat rastards
can’t stand the constitution, cover up for barry ????????
still can’t handle the truth can you ????
You don’t have to repeat yourself. We heard you the first time.
Donald trump discovers obama not a natural born citizen
Governor of HI discovers a small piece of paper in OBAMA’s DOH file, most
likely the advertisement in local newspaper where anyone can file
anything. Then backtracks like crazy over his promise to get the Birthers. But
you OBOT deathers, yes DEATHERS (death to the Constitution) can not
reconcile the fact that HI DOH law and rules allow any person of interest
to view the files. Dem governor did view them, GOP governor never did view them.
Now look at the stories popping up.
whoppie goldberg goes dog doo doo cries rascist “bush never had to show his BC!?!?”
hello whoopie, Bush didn’t run against OBama….mccain did….and mccain showed his BC
Senate actually passed a resolution in 2008 with Patrick Leahy the democrat vermont
senator saying…verbatim …”I understand , per the Constitution, that a natural born
citizen requires two US parents to be US citizens to qualify for president,”
Chertoff responded ” That is my understanding also”
IT is also the same definition put forth by Vattel of LAw of Nations, which the
framers followed when crafting the Constitution NBC requirment and John Bingham said the same thing, the author of 14th ammendment
BTW Whoopie , Ike Eisenhower, showed his birth certificate. So much for
your odd ball racist comment. Next time get your facts straight before you open
you pie hole
throw the lying DEATHER OBOTS out out out
A mountain of evidence remains
Is it dyslexia, or are you terrible at anagrams?
thefarleftView: still can’t handle the truth can you ????
You don’t have to repeat yourself. We heard you the first time.
>>>>>>When is BO going to show his real birth certificate? It looks
to me like the governor found a piece of paper , a small piece
of paper. Looks to me like BO does NOT have a real HI BC. [Naughty bit redacted. Doc.]
Obama will be re-elected, and Cory Booker will follow.
Better get used to it.
Why do birthers not realize simply calling a false statement the truth doesn’t miraculously make it true.
The real truth is with the exception of one completely repudiated case, the courts have never held that a person born on US soil (not to diplomats) is anything but a natural born citizen.
More truth you may fail to grasp is that there is not a single court decision that has ever held that to be a natural born citizen, a person born on US soil is required to even have one citizen parent, much less two.
It looks like thefarleftView is having an episode – I hope someone notices the seizures and frothing at the mouth and gets them proper medical attention…
Are there any other cases besides Dred Scott that cite Vattel on matters of citizenship?
no travel list
or “restrictions” DEATHER’s parse words. I distinctly remember the 80s because I could not stand R Reagan and all the TV announcers making HAY with the Pakistan travel “ban”. Now for convenience you DEATHERs change history, yet again.
And exactly to whom did McCain show his birth certificate to? Oh yeah…I believe it was one reporter, who was not permitted to photograph it.
And pulling one sentance out of context on a discussion about John McCain’s citizenship isn’t particularly convincing. You may want to read a few sentances earlier where Mr. Leahy opens the conversation by saying there was some question as to McCain’s eligibility because he was not born on US soil.
Repeating the same unsubstantiated lie doesn’t make it true. There is not a shred of evidence that the framers relied on anything but the common law in drafting the NBC requirement, and no court has ever relied on Vattel for the definition of NBC. The courts have, however, looked to the common law many times.
Problem being that it doesn’t really matter what he thought. You look to the plain meaning of the words as they were amended. Nowhere does the 14th amendment mention parents, so you would be wrong to read any such requirement in the amendment. Just ask Justice Scalia about the value of individual Congressmen’s statements in interpreting a statute (on in this case, amendment).
I guess he has something in common with President Obama then.
And there goes the irony meter!!!
Wow! A birther prediction of getting the president out! That’s never happened before…and what’s with 2012? I thought Orly said 60 days (about two years ago).
Well you got that right. Too bad for you it’s a mountain of evidence that the president was born in Hawaii.
Wow…point to freerepublic….now there’s an authoritative source. Get over it. There was no travel ban. There was a visa requirement (and you could get a visa at the border). Now would that TV announcers making HAY be anything like the NY Times stories talking about the joys of traveling through Pakistan, or that Pakistan was actively trying to encourage US tourism?
There was no Pakistan travel ban. That has been debunked here and elsewhere many, many, many times. Try that “google” thing, and go somewhere besides birther websites.
Actually, the irony is your very link proves you wrong. It contained the exact wording of the travel advisory, and a pdf of it:
Memo No. 81-33A
Passport Services/Bureau of Consular Affairs
Department of State/Washington D.C.
August 17, 1981
Travel to Pakistan
Before traveling to Pakistan, American citizens should be aware of the following updated visa requirements: 30 day visas are available at Pakistani Airpors for tourists only. As these visas are rarely extended beyond the 30 day time period, tourists planning to stay longer should secure visas before coming to Pakistan.
Any traveler coming into Pakistan overland from India must repeat must have a valid visa, as 30 day visas are not repeat not issued at the overland border crossing point at Wagha.
Any non-official American who is in Pakistan for more than 30 days must register with the government’s foreigner registration office. Exit permits are required for those who have stayed longer than 30 days before they are allowed to leave the country.
All Americans traveling to Pakistan on official business or for private employment are required to have a visa before arrival, and, as the Government of Pakistan’s clearance process is often lengthy, we would urge those coming to apply at the nearest Pakistani Embassy or Consulate as far in advance of their scheduled arrival as possible.
This supersedes requirements set forth in Department Publication M-264 “Visa Requirements of Foreign Governments”
Expiration Date: Indefinite.
Actually Ike Eisenhower showed his birth certificate after the fact. It was not released publicly until after he was out of the Presidency. Even then his birth certificate didn’t exist until he ran for President.
You can’t read French can you? Vattel does not say what you think he said in Law of Nations. In fact Natural Born Citizen was never mentioned in his book even the first english Edition didn’t have it. If you go to the features, comments section, Lupin a french Lawyer who frequents this site explains the language for you.
“I distinctly remember the 80s”
I doubt if this pathological liar can remember the last time the nurse brought meds around.
so thefarleftView posts to a link which debunks his own claim. And he wonders why no one takes his childish rants seriously.
The birtherstani do seem to be getting uppity lately…
the link provides the travel “restrictions” which media of the called a travel “ban”
at the time
There were no restrictions. You had to get a visa. That’s true for most countries today. Have you ever travelled anywhere? Do you have a passport? I’m guessiing no to both.
Media of the what? If media of the ___” called it a travel ban then you should have no problem producing said media links that called it a travel ban.
Actually, no, only birthers called anything a ban. The media didn’t say much of anythig about it, then or now. And it’s not much of a restriction, is it? I mean it’s barely a visa requirement. Seriously now, I’ve regularly traveled to countries that have had much tougher requirements (one the visa processing time took a month, and you had to have proof of already having accomdations reserved…and this was the days before online hotel registration, and when pretty much no-one at the hotels spoke english).
So what is this supposed “restriction” supposed to prove anyway? That President Obama had to get a visa upon arrival, and stayed less than 30 days? It’s pretty meaningless
The barely literate posts from this angry, irrational birther strongly resemble the petulant Tracey the Troll.
There is a small handful of hardcore birthers who have problems with comprehending simple English statements and expressing logical, factual concepts coherently with credible sources. They also seem to gravitate here just to vent since they’re convincing no one.
And the ‘restrictions’ have nothing to do with the USA.
It was all 100% Pakistani bureaucracy applicable to travelers from any country.
One of the services we pay the US State Department to provide us with is explanations of other countries requirements in these kind of matters.
dude thats some week sauce. thats why we call people like you sean a f*%#@$n snitch. man he was goin to get found out by them anyways
And I turned Orly in to the National Student Clearinghouse.
dood thats is sums weak spelin and gammer.
I am having flashbacks of some of my former students. The above sounds like it as written by a Junior High/Middle School student (as does Cao).
> DEATHER’s parse words.
No, it’s actually birthers who “parse words” to try to turn their obvious meaning on its head (e.g. that Hawaiin DoH statements “Obama was born in Hawaii” or “Obama is a natural born citizen” mean the opposite of what actually was said).
> So what is this supposed “restriction” supposed to prove anyway? That President Obama had to get a visa upon arrival, and stayed less than 30 days? It’s pretty meaningless
Yes, that’s why birthers call it a “travel ban”. Then they use that phrase as a proof-in-itself – if it’s a “travel ban”, Obama couldn’t have travelled on a US passport, so he must have used another one. (Some birfoons are even claiming that even if there was no actual “ban”, the “restrictions” must have moved Obama to use a foreign passport “because it was easier”, without any proof of course.)
That’s a bit akin to calling the local club a “no-entry zone” and then, using only that term, claiming that is proof if I got in there last night, I must be a burglar.
No wonder the birthers have tried to claim “intellectual dishonesty” for their attacks on the sane people. It would otherwise be synonymous with them.
In fact, ALL non-Pakistani citiizens require a visa to enter Pakistan. Here is a web site where you can enter your citizenship and see if you need a visa
Citizens of the US, Kenya, Indonesia and the UK all require a visa and the application form and documentation required are identical. Unless Obama had a Pakistani passport (and even the birthers haven’t claimed that) then which passport he used would be immatterial.
What [Expletive deleted. Doc.] kind of idiot would type their ssn into some BS site.. lawl ID theft fail.
I am surprised there has been no discussion on this thread about Greg Hollister possibly pretending to be Obama to get a new copy of his draft card. This was discussed on my show last week. http://rcradioshow.blogspot.com/2011/03/did-birther-gregory-hollister-commit.html
Someone entered Obama’s SS# and birth date into the Selective Service site and changed the address to a Colorado Springs address that is apparently where Hollister lives.
Orly claims she filed a copy of this and the SSVNS search in Tatiz v Astrue. This case is not on the docket yet because Orly still has not learned how to serve a US government official even after 2 years.
That Colorado Springs address definitely is owned by Hollister and his wife. You can look it up at the El Paso County Assessor;s website.
Nobody is suggesting that you should type in your own SSN – not that the website would know if you are entering your own SSN or someone else’s SSN. It doesn’t have the capability of matching the SSN which is entered to a name. All it knows is whether the SSN was issued and, if it was issued, the approximate year it was issued.
In order to steal your identify, at a minimum a thief would have to know both your name and your SSN. One without the other doesn’t do an identity thief any good.
Personally, I think that the SSA just gave Obama a new number, since his was publicly published. They do that quite a bit, actually. From Wikipedia:
In some circles, this is known as “pulling a Lucas”.
Hollister runs a business (or at least does with his wife) so he would have an EIN. http://www.hollisterenterprises.net/ The SSA would be able to trace the request by EIN number of the business. I don’t think the misuse of the SSVNS alone would merit more than a reprimand letter but when coupled with using Obama’s SS# and birth date to obtain a copy of his draft status might get the attention of both agencies and be forwarded to the local US Attorney for evaluation to see what laws were broken.
The Colorado Springs Gazette picked up the story and it was repeated by MSNBC on the web. http://www.gazette.com/articles/springs-115381-colorado-obama.html#slComments
A Gratewire post gets a mention but nothing was said about Doc C’s post here that was the first one I saw to document that this was illegal. Sorry Doc 🙁
In the article Hollister is quoted as saying:
Hollister denied breaking any laws.
“I was very meticulous and made sure everything I did was compliant with the law,” Hollister said, noting that he sent Obama an 1099 tax form.
So Hollister covered his butt by sending Obama a fraudulent 1099 form? If Hollister sent that to the IRS he just got himself in more trouble. Unfotunately, the reporter didn’t followup to ask just how sending Obama a 1099 form made Obama an employee of Hollister Enterprise, LLC or ask about the draft records
> Unfotunately, the reporter didn’t followup to ask just how sending Obama a 1099 form made Obama an employee of Hollister Enterprise, LLC
I suppose it’s one of the oldest lame arguments from the Crank’s Playbook – the “tacit admission” strategy. Which goes along the lines of “I sent him something stating X and since he didn’t protest or deny it within Y days, he has admitted X to be true”.
So probably he thinks if Obama did not reply to this 1099 form, Obama has thus admitted to being a Hollister employee.
Yeah, he’s just adding to his troubles here. Let’s add tax fraud to the list of violations for Hollister. Claiming fake 1099 workers in your business… not a smart strategy.
Or it’s the birther b.s. that the President of the United States is an employee of every U.S. citizen and therefore owes them unfettered access to all of his personal information regardless of privacy laws. The declaration that this President should be held to a different standard is because they said so. They will defensively declare that it has nothing to do with race and politics or the “he’s not one of us” and “I want my country back” bigotry. Usually when bigots are confronted with this it hits too close to the truth and they either run like cowards or move the goalposts.
I’ve seen that one many times.
Yeah, but that pseudo-nonsense has no legal basis and won’t fly. I’m pretty sure the IRS won’t accept anyone adding the President to their payroll claims on their tax returns. That is fraudulent filing no matter how they try to twist it and a weaker attempt at hocus-pocus bogus than all the sovereign citizen nonsense.
When have U.S. laws ever mattered to a birther? Laws are just a nuisance and an inconvenience to these bigots. Note the endless birther stupidity supporting Blue Falcon Lakin or the equally pathetic Fitzpatrick.
It’s long past the time to hold more of these un-American buffoons responsible for their actions whether it’s intentionally defrauding the government, fomenting sedition, filing frivolous lawsuits at taxpayer expense or threatening violence against the public and elected officials.
Bingo. Last week when we discussed this on RC Radio JY (James) was in the chat room and spouted that line to justify what Hollister had done immediately. Let’s see how it plays with the US Attorney in Colorado. BTW, the US Attorney for Colorado is a brand new Obama appointee named John Walsh. http://www.justice.gov/usao/co/John_Walsh_bio.pdf I am sure Hollister would be happy to know this and may get to meet him soon.
It won’t fly unless Hollister is responsible for preparing the President’s W-2.
No. The response is “never issued” not “not matched.”
And employers don’t file 1099 forms for employees. They are filed for independent contractors and vendors. I don’t believe that there is any requirement that businesses verify the SSNs of independent contractors and vendors.
I wonder what amount Hollister put on the 1099?
Technically true. 1099 staff are considered independent contractors, but also for many purposes are considered “part time” or “contract” employees who’s efforts for the company are often below the threshold necessary to become “W2” employees. There are no benefits taken out of 1099 staff – they are responsible for their full tax burden at tax filing time and they get paid the full gross amount earned. The employer still files this information with the government and they are issued their 1099 statement for filing their tax returns.