Despite abysmally bad audio coming from the Arpaio press conference in Arizona, it is abundantly clear that Sheriff Joe’s “cold case posse” went “full birther.” It was also evident that the “instigation” itself was a fraud. They concluded:
The document has failed every test we put it through … a fraud has been committed
Rather than using anybody’s real birth certificate as a “control document” they used a computer-printed document they made as a “control.” Arpaio’s cold case posse took a image file that they admit is a scan of a computer-generated birth certificate that they created (not an authentic paper certificate of any kind) and compared it to what the White House says is an scan of an original birth certificate, observed optimization differences, and then concluded that their fake is authentic and that the White House certificate is fake. Is it just me, or are we on the Bizarro planet htraE?
The next major point is that the “investigators” ran OCR and optimization against their “control” and concluded that it didn’t optimize the same way seen in the White House certificate. They used a fundamentally different kind of document (computer-printed v. original) with different software and then concluded that the differences were significant. That is either a mark of ineptitude or fraud.
The speaker stated that their results had been verified by “graphics experts” or “forensic document examiners” although no such person was identified. Mara Zebest was in the audience, but she is not a forensic document examiner by any definition.
It was also stated that a “person of interest” had been identified in the birth certificate fraud investigation. [Update: As of the end of Obama’s term on January 20, 2017, the “person of interest” remains unnamed.]
In new information, the Maricopa County “investigators” say that Jerome Corsi looked at National Archives INS records for August 1961. Corsi reported that August 1-8 records were missing. No one, to my knowledge, in Maricopa County verified Corsi’s statement.
A further claim that Obama’s Selective Service application (obtained through FOIA) is also faked was presented. Such claims were debunked long ago, although there maybe some new wrinkles here.
Finally Representative Seel, who sponsored the Arizona Birther Bill, also gave a plug for his bill.
They have affidavits! “I’m not going to give you any names.”
Certainly I am saddened to see crackpot conspiracy theories presented under the guise of official authority. It is a black mark on Maricopa County.
I think every criminal serving time in Arizona jails convicted as the result of an investigation by Joe Arpaio’s office now has grounds for an appeal.
Read more:
Oh, I like that.
“I think every criminal serving time in Arizona jails convicted as the result of an investigation by Joe Arpaio’s office now has grounds for an appeal.”
Reporter pushing Arpaio says: “None of us are stupid in this room.”
Doc: Certainly I am saddened to see crank conspiracy theories presented under the guise of official authority. It is a black mark on Maricopa County.
As a former resident of Maricopa County I’m surprised Arpaio fell for this nonsense. I figured he would waffle.
The next question is what agency with real law enforcement powers will pick up the investigation. Off the top of my head I can’t think of an Arizona law he could use to justify turning it over to sworn deputies. But then I never thought he would go this far.
Oh man, now they are going back to the HI newspapers publishing foreign birhts and adoptions as newborns in HI.
“…Obama’s Selective Service application (obtained through FOIA) is also faked…”
What was the complaint about that? I thought that was accepted as genuine, because it confirms which SS number he used.
Well, at least he can claim martyrdom when the DOJ takes him down for “rampant lawbreaking”.
If the birth certificate is fradulent, then Obama has to be aware of that fact. That means that he went along with the incorrect information. So how can you say that you are not accusing Obama of wrongdoing (even if he did not directly alter the document or order it done)?
Also, can we start gathering petitions with 250 signatures asking Sheriff Joe to investigate various other matters (since that seems to be all he needs to start one)?
Maybe a petition to investigate where the mi-go are keeping the cylinder with his friggin’ brain in it.
This is what I kept thinking. And they were growing rather irritated that people were making that conclusion, as if its some crazy thought!
“It was also stated that a ‘person of interest’ had been identified in the birth certificate fraud investigation” …LOL! based on what?
I haven’t listened to it yet, look forward to whatever coverage is out there. Sounds like Arpaio is now a Corsi sock puppet? Not even a first name of the “person”? Still waiting on the last name of the last guy from last year! Corsi consigned his figment to the “posse”? heehee!
DG – The only way it could make sense is if they were arguing that Obama was fooled like everyone else and honestly believed he was born in Hawaii in 1961. But it is hard to mesh that with the fact that they claim his Selective Service card was created/forged in 2008.
My husband normally doesn’t “get” me being alternately amused and horrified by the whole birther conspiracy thing.
Today, though, he was working from home and was here when this joke of a press conference aired.
The “supposedly sane people believe this garbage?” look on his face and the questions which followed were priceless.
Jeez, every single assertion is one that was debunked long ago. What the hell is wrong with these people?
Someone should mail him a copy of John Woodman’s book.
Calling it a “black mark” is racist.
“Rather than using anybody’s real birth certificate as a “control document” they used a computer-printed document they made as a “control.” ”
Looking at the numerous scandals that have come out of the FBI forensic labs as well as numerous state police labs, the use of ridiculous “controls” probably shouldn’t surprise anyone
Stunning.
1) They claim O’s BC is a fake because THEY made a fake, and it didn’t match? WTF?
2) Expert opinions on graphics with no one named as the “expert.”
3) An unnamed “person of interest in the fraud.”
4) A claim about missing INS records without a shred of proof.
5) Backed up by anonymous affidavits.
Oh, well then… Case closed, obviously.
I’m embarrassed to live in Arizona, my only saving grace is I don’t live in Maricopa County.
Because he himself has been duped, told a lie, bred for world domination, obviously. He really believes he was born in Hawaii, poor soul. It’s too bad we don’t remember our infancy. If we could, then we could ask him where he was really born. Who knows where he was really born. Kenya could just be a diversion. He could be a Russian sleeper spy. Who knows!
Birth control, birth certificate…a big day for birth.
Watching that reminded of the vignette from Alice’s Restaurant:
“27 8×10 color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against us”
But their seeing-eye dog is also blind.
Paper – Are we sure that Obama was in fact “born”? Rumor has it that he was created in a government labratory somewhere (maybe Russia, maybe China, or was it Iran).
Seriously, did anyone expect otherwise? This is Sheriff Joe’s hit back at the feds for having investigated him. It’s just a childish political gesture.
This dude knows his chances of indictment and standing trial are good. He has nothing to lose by flipping the bird to Obama.
It’s pretty clear to me. Arpaio is desperate. He knows the Feds have the goods on him and he is going down. He’ll point to this weird episode of nutbaggery to say, “See, I had the goods on Obama and look at what he does to me!!!!”
The claim is that the circular postal date cancel on the form is wrong. NBC used to have on his web site a sampling of registered main from Hawaii and that period that were similar. However the original objection was that the seal said “USPO” (older) rather “USPS.” In this, I guess new, claim, the stamp used a two-digit date instead of 4.
I need to look at the video closer on this point.
To me the most important thing is that Sheriff Joe did NOT endorse the two citizen parent stuff. Factual questions about the Birth Certificate are not going very far and are a lot easier to debunk than Sovereign Citizen type crank legal stuff. I have always believed the long form image was a manipulated image, but that does not mean the information on it is false. Plus, an image is an image is an image. An image is NOT a document.
The selective service stamp thingy is not something I remember seeing before. All in all, it could have been a whole lot worse if the crank legal stuff had gotten the thumbs up.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
I think Sheriff Joe is demanding a copy of Obama’s birth certificate printed on unobtainium.
You know, I’ve thought about that long and hard. Could it be that obvious? I’ve been thinking maybe alien birth is the better explanation. But which planet? That’s the problem. We’ve got all these sworn affidavits from people who survived alien probes, and just happened to witness Obama’s birth on a spaceship, but which spaceship? Some are green men from Alpha Centauri, others purple women from Mars (go figure). Chartreuse from Europa (Jupiter’s moon) sounds the most likely from what I can tell.
But maybe you’re right. I could be wrong. Born in a lab in Iran. That would explain a lot, wouldn’t it?
Computer Forensics 101
1. Do not investigate the copy of a copy. Make a copy of the original and use hash encryption to prevent tampering.
2. You use the EXACT same software used to create the “fraud” or else you are just wasting your time.
3. Document every procedure during the process.
Very shoddy forensic work here.
It’s not about the 2 digit doc.It’s pretty obvious, 2008 stamp was cut and reversed to make it ’08, where there was no 2 digit stamp back then…
i mean to make it ’80
Foreign sic.
It looks like Obama got a big big problem. The suspects involved in the forgery most likely include the Hawaii Department of Health. This will explain why Hawaii DOH has been fighting Orly so hard and why the are fighting the lawsuit for the dead girl’s BC. Even if the BC issue is thrown out, we still have the problem with Selective Service Record. I also thought the testimony of the government official being introduced to Obama as foreign student was compelling.
Well, this , you guess, ‘new” claim as you said, comes from a law enforcement agency and it is the only official claim today.
Oh, another thing I noticed. Was Corsi the only person who had control of the microfilms??? Can anybody else verify those particular dates were missing???
I don’t think there was an index, or Corsi would not have had to go through all the rolls would he???
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Over at free republic, they are shouting and screaming and saying “OMG” and “this is good” and “Obama is going down” and “sheriff Joe for president.” When there’s a little squeak from one or two saying “this is nothing” they report him to the mods and call him a noob and call him an obot.
They are celebrating over there so I said “let me go to “Conspiracy” and see what really happened.
Also, some Greg guy is very angry at WND for sending him an e-mail asking for money for the cold case posse…….he says “isn’t this done alerady – aren’t we waiting for the report?” A few of them are getting mad at WND, saying they are using this issue for money. What………not WND!!! Birthers are so stupid – seriously!
The Arizona Daily Star is now my favorite newspaper, whether or not it is an actual newspaper. This is a must-read:
http://azstarnet.com/news/blogs/fitz-blog/sheriff-arpaio-puts-spotlight-on-arizona/article_21244a7a-63eb-11e1-8c43-001871e3ce6c.html
Hells no they weren’t getting irritated. They were loving every minute of it.
The most charitable interpretation of today is they were totally mesmerized by Vogt’s presentation of his analysis, and built the whole day around it, tuning out anything like, oh, say a press conference the White House once held where reporters saw, handled and photographed the certified paper documents.
Or you know, the rest of Vogt’s bibliography.
In other words, they were conned, and conned but good.
It reminds me of an incident from the dot-com era that some of you might recall, involving a company called Pixelon. They burst out of nowhere, promising an awesome new video streaming/compression technology that was going to turn the world on its ear. Their most notorious splash was a live concert from Las Vegas that they used to demo their new technology, featuring Kiss, The Dixie Chicks, and a reunion performance by The Who.
Never mind that in the run-up to the event, some of the company employees were horrified to discover that what the CEO had been demoing was an existing Windows video technology, dressed up in a skin he’d gotten some of the engineers to wrap it with. By then they were all in, and he was still promising that the real technology was almost ready. Real Soon Now.
So millions of VC dollars were spent, the most awesome party in the history of the dot-com era was thrown, and the actual video stream looked about 5 times worse than Vattelevision.
Sometime after that, they found out that the CEO had come into town on the run from the law, living in his car, under a completely different name.
Things kind of went downhill from there.
That’s how I imagine the posse-cats’ relationship with Vogt and Corsi has gone. I’m just unsure of what stage of the relationship they’re currently in. Deputy Pornstache was definitely into it.
Oh – the Arizona Daily Star is very much a real newspaper. It’s the only major print daily left in Tucson after the Tucson Citizen went online only.
I was in Tucson one morning and stopped at an IHOP for breakfast. I bought a copy of the Daily Star to read.
However – that was absolutely brilliant stuff.
The hard copy of Arpaio’s report is now available: http://www.scribd.com/doc/83396535/Barack-Obama-eligibility-report-from-Joe-Arpaio-s-birther-gang
My impressions and analysis of the WND/Arpiao Dog-and-Pony Show Trial Balloon can be found here:
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/03/now-i-know-how-a-birther-feels/#comment-160875
Yeah, this came across as Corsi simply doing his usual make up claims as he goes along.
The fact that they just let him go off on his own and report back, without any further validation says it all.
If you noticed – Corsi was the only one they had speak or throw out the most “out there” allegations (the week of missing data, the nonsense story about a childhood conversation in Bill Ayer’s mom’s yard…)
Arpiao and even his Cold Posse toady went out of their way to stick to only the PDF and the Selective Service card and stay very CLEAR of all the rest.
They know this is just about casting aspersions and throwing poo against the wall and hoping something will stick…
I recently read Stephen King’s “Under the Dome”. As I watch Arpaio, I can’t stop thinking of Big Jim Rennie.
I guess Arpiao’s report pretty much discredits John Woodman’s analysis of the the BC.
Immediate ballot challenges need to be filed where they can. There is no credible evidence Obama was born in the US. We can use the NBC as a backup argument.
This has been around for awhile.
http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2011/06/obamas-forged-selective-service.html
The circular stamps typically have a year date of 1980. President Obama’s (assumed) SSR with the circular stamp is 80. There is a space where the 19 should be.
Thanks for reminding me of that tale, justlw! I had the pleasure of being an employee involved in a similar company, if far less spectacular. We had cringes in sopades as our “CEO” passed off standard iPhone functionality as our new “mobile digital reader”. All I could see was headlights!
As bad as that was, I am grateful to have enough brains to see through the con. Unfortunately, for a chunk of the populace, koolaid shorts out reasoning. Thus the various species of dupes, of which birther are only one of many.
I volunteer to be the executioner once he is convicted in a court of law (obama ineligible)
http://www.youtube.com/user/LoneStar1776#p/u/1/79T6QQt9pqY
Actually, I think it goes the other way around. I suspect Mr. Woodman will have some choice comments forthcoming on his web site:
http://www.obamabirthbook.com/
In the middle of this new controversy, however, I would think that EVERYBODY should be buying Woodman’s book. (I already did.)
Hey John – how many courts/judges agree with you or the shurriff? What’s that? None? Out of 100 cases so far? With more cases being dismissed on a daily basis?
We’ll all be impressed when any of this garbage is affirmed by a single court or judge in the country – you know, a court – where it matters.
We’ll be here waiting. 😀
No it doesn’t…..
Go ahead……knock yourself out.
Why would anyone want to buy John Woodman’s book now that an official and recognized legal authority has analyzed the same birth certificate and has come to very different conclusion.
I feel disinclined at the moment to lslog through the Arpaio report. But one thing I haven’t nticed is, what is hegoing about it?
Is the good sheriffs posse gonna continue to investigate and hope to bring criminal charges? My understanding of the constitution is that the president must be impeached and removed from office before any criminal charges can be laid against him. Is this not so?
So if the sheriff thinks he has the goods on Mr. Obama, ian’t the proper recipient for his information the Congress of the United States>
And if he’s talking about criminally charging someone else other than the president, where does he get the authority? Any supposed crime would not have occurred in Maricopa County or Arizona. So again, some other agency wluld be the proper recipient of any such inicriminating evidence.
The way I see it, the publishing of a frauduilent BC — not that I believe for a millisecond that’s the case — would not be a crime, at least yet, because the publication of this document did not get Mr. Obama on a single ballot, or affect a single lawmaker’s decision to declare Mr. Obama the duly elected president. — because of the timing, of course,
Can the sheriff’s posse prove that Mr. Orbama got on any state ballot i n 2008 using a fraudulent document? Very much doubt it. Ditto, 2012.
Of course, the sheer fraudulency of this investigation is underscored by the statement of one of the participants — I don’t recall if I saw that on this site or somewhere else I looked — concerning how the Honolulu newspapers acquired the birth information. The assertion, backed by not a scinitalla of ecvidence that I saw, was that the newspapers just took in and printed whatever was called in. One way that’s disproved is that the two competing newspapers printed the identical birth records. If they just relied on callers, some newsborns’ families would have called one paper but not the other.
Of course, in the real world of newspapering in those days, the papers wouuld have obtained their birth information from a single authoratative source, in this case, from the news agency that got the records from the State Department of Health, which in turn collected the records from the hospitals and the occasional midwife or family that home-deliivered.
The reasons are at least three: accuracy, which would be a bit less than 100 percent if the papers had relied on the public to call in their joyful news: efficiient deployment of labor, because a news clerk would work from a single list and could input the names in a single sitting, vs. starting and stopping throughout the day as people called in; and guardiing against being punked by someone who would call in a totally bogus birth announcement.
Oh and John, I strongly suspect Mr. Woodman’s book discredits Arpaio, not the other way around. This reminds me: Now I know why Arpaio did not take advantage of the chance to join Orly in her Georgia misadventure. He didn’t want to be prematurelly discredited.
Sheriff Joe’s investigation seems to be point to the Hawaii DOH. This is not surprising since Hawaii DOH has fought very hard to prevent the original documents from being seen. (Many birthers believe that Hawaii DOH has no orginal documents for Obama and that any such document or image that has been produced by Obama or Hawaii DOH has been manufactured and is most likely a forgery and a fraud.) As was said in the press conference, should Obama or Hawaii produce something, that evidence or document will be examined with a fine tooth and comb.
By this comment you have proven yourself to be the despicable sub-human I suspected you are.
Eat shit and die, traitor.
I left this comment on the CBS News story:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57388911-503544/sheriff-joe-arpaio-suggests-obamas-birth-certificate-is-a-forgery/?tag=contentMain;contentBody
Will Orly Taitz now reenergize her efforts to force Hawaii DOH to produce Obama’s so-called orginal birth certificate. Orly now has a legal and recognizable investigative body to back her.
All this sturm und drang from Obama’s proponents, and for what?!
Can’t Obama simply deliver the hawaii original to the Sheriff, or any forensics expert?
Why does Obama insist on leaving you loyalists in the lurch when it would be easy for him to make this go away with some straightforward adult conduct?
Bonus question: Is [text deleted. Doc] emotional involvement the reason this thread’s title is so grammatically awkward?
“In new information, the Maricopa County “investigators” say that Jerome Corsi looked at National Archives INS records for August 1961. Corsi reported that August 1-8 records were missing. No one, to my knowledge, in Maricopa County verified Corsi’s statement.”
So Corsi believes that Obama was born in Kenya on August 4, and within the next few days his mother flew halfway around the world to get him to Hawaii by August 8? And then Obama got someone at the INS to destroy the records? Really?
FIFY. You had the order backwards.
Look John, if you really have questions for Mr. Woodman, you can call in and ask him yourself. He will be on RC Radio tonight:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/rcr/2012/03/02/rc-radio
Show starts at 9:00pm EST. Mr Woodman is lined up to be a guest in the 2nd hour.
Ah John, keep dreaming the impossible dream. Yeah, good luck with that…
Only Hawaii can do that. Actually, even they can’t deliver the original which remains in their vault by law. They could certify a copy though. What’s that? They already did, Oh, never mind.
In short, I don’t think even a grand jury would indict this piece of toast masquerading as a ham sandwich.
LMAO! Ah good old Rudy, aka LoneStar1776.
He’s always such an extremely emotional ignorant, that he’s actually become quite entertaining in his outrageous outbursts. My favorite video of his was when he ended up burning a document and p*ssing in his woodburner.
As he seems to be quite the emotionally unstable type, I’m sure the proper authorities keep a close eye on him.
Finally, a small point I actually agree with you on – yes, the insinuations of Sheriff Joe would mostly point towards the HI DOH…as they created the BCs and vouched for their content, their authenticity AND their chain of custody.
As to the latter point about asking them to “produce something” – they already DID. *duh*
Too bad for you Birthers that they are *the only official authorities* on this matter and whatever they vouch for and certify automatically gets FFAC.
Arpaio is now considering handing this pile of manure over to regular detectives to spend taxpayer $s to “investigate”. He really should be impeached.
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/arpaio-may-use-taxpayer-funds-to-further-investigate
Orly is always energized and always vexatious. It sure doesn’t help her at all…
Two pdf Press Releases at Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office website:
http://www.mcso.org/MultiMedia/PressRelease/MARAZEBESTREPORT.pdf
http://www.mcso.org/MultiMedia/PressRelease/Sheriffreleasesobamafindings.pdf
Also, I have put out Internet Article on the Presser, which I am updating like crazy.
http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2012/03/01/the-big-kapowski-sheriff-joe-says-new-stuff-has-come-to-light/
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Oh Ken, you so suck at being a Concern Troll.
Yeah, a few folks – Dr. C included, have gotten upset at seeing the office of a County Sheriff debased by playing into a conspiracy con game in the mere attempt to spark some sort of Swift Boat style ginned up controversy.
However, myself and a lot of the rest of the world have merely reacted with *meh*.
The HI DOH & Obama have already provided more than they ever needed to. The rest of your words are weak attempts at Concern Trolling. You are simply too transparent in your disingenuous motives.
As Curious Blue over at The Fogbow has pointed out in doing the research, Corsi’s whole story here falls apart, because those INS travel records he claimed to look at are only available for the period of 1882-1957…
http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=7215&start=500#p351137
Oops! Another Corsi lie easily busted…
Kenneth Olsen “All this sturm und drang from Obama’s proponents, and for what?!
Can’t Obama simply deliver the hawaii original to the Sheriff, or any forensics expert?
Why does Obama insist on leaving you loyalists in the lurch when it would be easy for him to make this go away with some straightforward adult conduct?”
Where have you been these past three plus-years. It’s obvious that NO EVIDENCE wll ever make this go away for the die-hard bierthers, of which I suspect you are one. The state doesn’t deliver its originals to anybody, as you surely should know. Any forensics expert? Are you conceding that the sheriff’s posse didn’t have a single one?
He could find himself in real trouble if he goes forward with that. Somehow, I don’t think the AG of AZ will want to go along with that…
Arpiao’s suggestion of taking this on within his own organization instead of “passing it off” to others is quite telling of how much this attempted “Trial Balloon” tactic has already fallen like a “Lead Balloon”.
Their original intent and goal was obvious here – try to reignite public media controversy on the issue in the hopes to goad and pressure others to take up this fool’s errand. That way, he could stoke the fires and then pass the buck and try to wash his hands of all this.
However, it is barely penetrating anywhere and anywhere outside of the Birtherverse where it gets mentioned – it is already a resounding DUD and a subject of much loathing and mocking.
So, the only way for Corsi & him to still try to keep their latest Swift Boat brainstorm alive will be if he doubles down and tries to get away with continuing this mock investigation himself…
In other words, an act of desperation…
I think that word Martyr is inappropriate. Martyrs are supposed to be innocent. I live in Maricopa County, and I used to be employed as a private investigator who did criminal background checks at the Federal level in U.S. District Court of Arizona. I would come across the gazillion civil rights lawsuits filed against Arpaio in Arizona Federal Court on a daily basis in researching the subjects I was paid to investigate. Arpaio is probably the most cited name in Arizona’s Pacer system. While I never actually counted them (he was not a subject of any of my searches specifically), I’m sure there are literally thousands of lawsuits against him. I think that precludes his martyr status.
Next he’ll complain about the 1890 Census records.
It looks to me as though Doc wanted to make it look like a tabloid headline, which it does.
Besides, I’d rather be grammatically awkward than intellectually awkward.
A further update on Curious Blue’s investigation into the INS travel records:
http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=7215&start=525#p351190
This delivers an even MORE crushing blow to Corsi’s bold lie (which is restated in the 5 page press release summary from WND/Arpaio), as it show that the travel records for passengers arriving VIA air travel only go from 1929-1945 in the available microfiche and that HI isn’t even included in that list…
For those who haven’t seen the 5-page “press release” on the Cold Case Posse findings:
http://www.mcso.org/MultiMedia/PressRelease/Sheriffreleasesobamafindings.pdf
Corsi’s bald-faced lie is the 2nd bullet point on page 2.
For everyone’s independent research:
Link to full index:
http://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/085.html#85.3
y_p_w, no offense was intended to the Star. Having spent only a few hours of my life in Arizona (While touring the Hoover Dam), I was unfamiliar with it. I suppose I could have done a simple and quick search and found out that it is not simply an online “newspaper,” but, as is so often the case, I didn’t really care.
How much do they pay you for comedy relief?
Where??? What legal and recogniable investigative body????? [me frantically looking all around, terrified that President Obama is going to be froggmarched out of the White House…] snark!
We’re not left in the lurch you stupid birther…..YOU BIRTHERS are left inthe lurch, as you say, looking more and more stupid and pathetic with each successive court case loss and meaningless AHA moment….
Unfortunately neither the state AG or the Maricopa County Attorney can stop Arpaio from doing anything he wants.
As far as either of them working with him or supporting him it would be good to remember that the previous county attorney was voted out of office and is now in the midst of disbarment hearings before the Arizona State Bar for his efforts on behalf of the Sheriff a few years ago.
Why would the Hawaii DOH forge a birth certificate? They issue birth certificates. Why not just issue an authentic one with false information if they’re in on it.
Like every other state, Hawaii cannot forge their own documents. They could commit fraud, but they cannot forge their own documents. You for instance cannot forge your own signature. Any document they produce is legitimate. In theory, it could be a lie, but not a forgery.
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/09/10/20110910maricopa-attorney-andrew-thomas-ethics-hearings.html
http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/azelections/articles/2010/12/06/20101206andrew-thomas-discipline-arizona-supreme-court.html
Looks like a fun time was had by all. Isn’t filing charges against your political enemies business as usual?
Apparently the ruling on his disbarrment is being delayed a month. It was supposed to be today.
Agreed. That is a very important point that bears constant repeating.
What kind of poster continues to insult the owner of the blog he is posting on, even after Doc warned him not to insult him by calling him Doctor Con?
I would say a troll looking to be a martry who can claim that Doc ‘banned’ him,when Doc puts him into moderation.
It is not Hawaii DoH who forged the document but someone on the Obama team. According to the official story, a certified copy of the birth certificate was given to Obama’s lawyer. DoH did not deliver the computer file (.pdf) that was posted on the White House web site.
File posted on the WH web site was not created as a scan of an actual document.
*rolls eyes*
If that was the case and what was on the White House website was in any way DIFFERENT from what the HI DOH gave them, then the HI DOH would NOT be providing links to that document on their very own HI DOH site!!!
*duh* They stand by it and verify it. So that kills your notion right there.
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html
We are talking about the same corrupt DoH office who refused to follow UIPA law many times in the past. I have personally sent them a question whether they issued COLB to Obama on June 6, 2007 and they refused to confirm it.
Arpaio’s investigation concluded that LFBC file posted on White House web site is a forgery – the document is not a scan of a document with OCR or optimization applied to it.
Ask yourself how did team Obama manufacture this file and what was the motivation behind it.
*rolls eyes* Whatever.
You simply call them corrupt because you didn’t like the answer they gave you. You act like a spoiled entiled child with no sense of how the real world works.
NO is a valid answer. You simply can’t accept the fact that you are wrong and your understanding of UIPA is wrong too.
If you have any issue with that, don’t bother whining to us about it. We don’t care. Put your money where your mouth is and take them to court and find out who is right. What are you afraid of?
NO. He didn’t. You’ve been punked. He only insinuated that. He was too chicken to outright conclude that. He backed away from fully “going there” when challenged by the press to clarify. He’s simply playing a weasel game – trying to suggest without actually concluding. He knows he doesn’t actually have the goods to back up those charges and pursue them in any court of law. His little game would be quickly thrown out.
Answer: They didn’t.
Ask yourself: What is the motivation behind the Birthers lies?
Quote from Reuters article:
“A 6-month-long investigation conducted by my cold case posse has led me to believe there is probably cause to believe that President Barack Obama’s long-form birth certificate … is a computer-generated fraud.”
This should be good enough reason for concern and a full blown investigation of the original documents on file with Hawaii DoH.
What is your explanation for artifacts shown in Obama’s LFBC? Arpaio’s investigation proved it is not possible to scan a document and have a result that is similar to the file published on White House web site.
I thought the whole thing was rather funny in a sad sort of way, like an old Charlie Chaplin routine, if you see what I mean.
I don’t know much about Arpaio other than what the news items have reported about his blatant and often violent racist treatment of Hispanics.
Therefore I can’t say I was surprised that he bought the birther lies hook line & sinker. I know some here constantly argue that not all birthers are racists, and that’s probably true, but I’m among those that always said that the elephant in the room was pure racism: the utter rejection of “presidenting while black.”
Considering what we know about Arpaio’s mental make up, how could he possibly NOT fall for this. This was like Orval Faubus at Little Rock, in a less historically important fashion.
‘Yeah, that’s it….it’s all racist….blah blah blah…..Arpaio’s a meanie…..blah blah blah…..Obama’s so handsome….blah blah blah….birfers are stupid and I’m so smart….blah blah blah…..we already saw proof long ago…..blah blah blah….’
you forgot one more…’this can’t be happening!’…….
No, it only proved that his posse could not reproduce it. Does that prove it’s impossible? No.
Let me give you an analogy:
Have you ever seen one of those paint jobs which dynamically change across a certain colour range (I think it’s called “flip-flop paint” in the UK, dunno about the US)?
If you showed this to a guy who’s been painting his private cars for 20 years, he’d probably go “well, I cannot reproduce that effect with all the 90 colours I have, that means it’s impossible!”. Ignoring of course that he simply doesn’t have both the special paint required and the skills to apply it.
And since we all know the posse’s “experts” likely coincide with the WND “experts” we’ve all known and loved to debunk, their statement “we cannot reproduce it, therefore no-one can” is not only bogus, but to take that as the basis for claiming a crime was committed reflects badly on the “quality” of Maricopa County law enforcement.
As the Doc said, don’t you think any criminal who was convicted in MC now has a good case claiming the sheriff’s office is working with non-scientific, outlandishly amateurish methods?
Naturlizedcitizen and the other birther should be asking the sheriff to provide sworn affidavits and testify in the various cases and challenges. They should make sure he turns this over to the prosecutor.
Well, I wake up and see G has handled it all. Good job, G.
Big difference between a belief in probable cause and a conclusion.
Unfortunately, the crazy right doesn’t get this. My local newscaster on a local Phoenix (ArpaioLand) radio station, Sandy Wells, stated this morning that Arpaio concluded it was fraud too. A half hour before that “concluded” statement, she made a previous broadcast where she said Arpaio “proved” the birth certificate is fraudulent.
Saying it’s a conclusion or proven doesn’t make it so though.
Note to the non-birthers: These anti-education idiots just can’t help themselves.
I think that is a fair characterization of what Arpaio and Zullo said (if not what the DID).
Then, for the love of God, how can a cop say there is a serious crime (forgery, perjury) and not turn the evidence over to the DA for prosecution? Unless those aren’t crimes, in which case, what the f&@! is a cop getting involved for?
Saying and doing are two different things. She didn’t say Arpaio stated that he concluded that it’s fraudulent, she said he concluded that it is fraudulent. Dr. C – you and I both know he couldn’t possibly conclude it’s fraudulent. The State of Hawaii has verfied that the information on the LFBC is true. They stand by that statement. It doesn’t matter what Arpaio’s possie thinks, the information is true. All of this nonsense of pixel placement completely misses the point. The information is verified by Hawaii officials.
For dodging his federal grand jury probe (and soliciting donation funds to pay for it)? Hmmm, Whoddathunkit?
You guys keep going back to the ‘HI Officials said…’ line. Don’t you get it ….they are now being considered in the investigation as part of the potential criminal perps?? Everything they’s said and done up to this point is now suspect??
Prisons are full of people who were ‘Officials’.
If I had to choose between believing Joe Arpaio and believing Loretta Fuddy (and Chiyome Fukino and Alvin Onaka and Governor Lingle and Governor Abercrombie and the Selective Service, and Barack Obama), I chose the ones who are NOT under investigation by a grand jury.
Plus Arpaio never said he was investigating any Hawaiian official.
I don’t know if you have noticed, but I have let a number of our insufferable trolls from times past say what they want during this special time of joy for them.
I would offer the general advice to others (and to myself):
Do not feed the trolls
Abuse of authority?
Only in your deluded mind. He first would have to have evidence of wrong doing. How exactly can he have done that without having ever held the actual document in question?
Before we get to the point of “potential crimianl perps” there has to be actual evidence of some criminal wrong doing. Not to mention, I’d like to hear what the motive was for the head of the McCain campaign’s in Hawaii would be to lie about then candidate Obama’s birth certificate.
You see in our county, we have this little “innocent until proven guilty” thing. And before someone is proven guilty, a prosecutor has to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt usually requires providing evidence. Seeing how we’re still waiting for that evidence thing, you have a long way to go before labelling people “potential criminal perps.”
Don’t any of you people ever ask yourselves why, in all these years, the original paper b.c. hasn’t been produced for inspection by an impartial document examiner?
Even in your most lucid moments, hasn’t that question ever nagged at you??
Yes, and Sheriff Arpaio could possibly join them himself. Then, he could be the Toughest Sheriff in Prison. That is more likely, even if I do not know the Sheriff’s legal situation and just think of him as a ridiculous cranky crank with issues.
Let me invite you to return to the real world where the original paper document was presented at a White House press conference, where Savannah Guthrie of NBC news felt the raised seal, and snapped a picture of it (where you can actually see the raised seal).
You’re the one who needs a lucid moment.
Hi LineInTheSand:
No, I’ve never asked myself why, because we all know President Obama is merely a hologram, and so no paper b.c. exists.
Also, your final sentence, for it to make sense, should read, “Even in your most irrational moments, hasn’t that question ever nagged at you??”
I haven’t ever had my birth certificate analyzed, have you? If not, why should Obama?
Have you ever asked yourself where the birth certificates of any of the candiidates running against him are? Hell, I’d be happy with a pdf with layers. They don’t even care enough to give us that, do they?
Because quite simply there is no reason for it. If it was submitted to a court of law, it would be accepted as authentic on its face. Before there would be a need to subject it to any further review, the side claiming there was a problem would actually have to produce some evidence that it should not be relied on. Considering I have yet to see a remotely plaussible story of how President Obama could be born anywhere else, muchless evidence of any wrong doing on the part of Hawaiian government officials, or any motive of why they would go to such lenghts to support a forgery, and all of the evidence supports Hawaiian birth, why would there be any need to subject the document to any additional analysis?
Perhaps if you actually gave us a reason why do doubt the document that isn’t based on lies, innuendo, and pure fantasy, some of us might think there would be a reason for additional examination of the document.
Why would it? All Joe has is “I believe someone forged the PDF”. That’s already a far cry from “I believe somebody forged the certified paper copies”, something he does not and cannot conclude.
And it makes sense – if the DoH was somehow involved in any forgery, they would’ve turned over perfect forgeries to Obama’s lawyer and there would’ve been no need to manipulate the PDF.
Therefore, if you believe the PDF was forged, it follows Hawaii cannot have played any part in any wrongdoing. And if it hasn’t, there’s no point in not trusting the DoH when it says the PDF is legit.
So you end up with a birfer paradoxon – if you believe the PDF was forged, it follows the DoH is telling the truth and therefore Obama was born in Hawaii. And if the DoH is not telling the truth, then the PDF must be real and therefore Obama was born in Hawaii.
No matter how you twist it, you end up with Obama being born in Hawaii which is all that matters. (Even if, arguendo, there was something else worthy of being forged on the BC, it cannot be anything that makes Obama ineligible since everything necessary for being NBC – born in the US in 1961 – can be deduced as correct from the above reasoning.)
Unless you want to claim that the DoH, for some reason, believes authenticating a forged PDF is somehow legally different from producing a forged certified copy in the first place. Which again makes no sense at all in the real world.
I wonder if the DOJ is thinking the same about the Sheriff.
No, not at all.
The ADS is indeed a ‘real’ newspaper. I grew up with it in Tucson. Tucson (Pima County) hates Phoenix (Maricopa County).
LOL. Obots cannot explain the “pdf” file posted on the White House web site. Arpaio’s investigation proved that layers were not created as a result of OCR or optimization.
You and other Obots on this site are nothing but a bunch of Quislings giving aid and comfort to the enemy of USA.
There is nothing to explain. Hawaii even links to the PDF.
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html
Why would they link to a forgery, and document the chain of custody of the original paper record? If Sheriff Joe is stupid enough to actually accuse Hawaiian officials of fraud, this will not turn out well for him.
As for the layers, MrBrown said it well:
“When do you think they will mention that every digitized image downloaded from the internet and opened with Adobe Illustrator will appear to have layers ? Layers are not caused by a forger creating a fraudulent document, they are caused by reading a digitized image downloaded and opened with Adobe Illustrator.
Every Single Time. Every Single Image”
Try it and see for yourself. Sheriff Joe relied on already-debunked clowns posing as “experts”- no actual experts were involved in his bought-and-paid-for “investigation”, and I am surprised that the Sheriff’s “experts” could even turn on a PC after reading their drivel.
As for traitors, take a look in the mirror. You are the one trying to overturn the will of the voters and nullify a free-and-fair election.
But you and Sheriff Joe will fail.
Well if you feel that strongly about it, why don’t you put your money where your mouth is and take a copy of the report and march right into your local AG office and demand an investigation?
Yeah I didn’t think so.
Have you seen videos proving that it is IMPOSSIBLE that layers shown in Obama’s document were created by an automated process? Automated process creates different kind of layers than those shown in Obama’s file.
Why do you support people who hide the truth from US public? I will leave you with a quote: “The only people who don’t want to disclose the truth are people with something to hide.”
I received the standard runaround from CA Secretary of State when I asked their office for clarification about the process used to create a CERTIFIED list of candidates for presidential ballot. Democrats put party interests first.
I cannot fight Obama’s brown shirts. At least I can ridicule you and other Obots for being good little Quislings.
Will Arizona representatives respond to Arpaio?
Posted: Mar 02, 2012 6:34 PM EST
Updated: Mar 02, 2012 10:24 PM EST
By Jadiann Thompson
(excerpt – PHOENIX (CBS5)
“What do you think about Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s investigation?” we asked.
“I think the best thing for Republicans to do right now is to focus on the 2012 elections,” said Quayle.
We didn’t really get a straight answer, so we asked again.
“Do you think this is what we are paying him to do?” we asked.
“I don’t know. I haven’t actually looked at the report,” Quayle said.
And again, we asked, “You don’t have any comment more specifically about Arpaio basically calling the president’s birth certificate a sham?
Quayle said, “I think that the president was born in Hawaii.”
On Thursday, Arpaio said during a press conference that the president’s birth certificate is not authentic. He said a team of investigators, not paid by taxpayer money, found that the long-form certificate was created electronically and never existed in paper form.
Of all Arizona’s representatives, we only heard back from three others.
Rep. Jeff Flake, R-AZ, said he believes the president is a citizen and was born in the U.S.
Rep. Ed Pastor, D-AZ, wrote us just to say he declined to comment.
Sen. John McCain R-AZ, Sen. Jon Kyl R-AZ, Rep. Paul Gosar, R-AZ, Rep. Trent Franks, R-AZ, and Rep. David Schweikert R-AZ, did not respond.
Rep. Raúl M. Grijalva, D-AZ, released the following statement Friday.
“Sheriff Arpaio, who has apparently solved every case in Maricopa County and had nothing better to do, has decided that embarrassing himself on the national stage is a small price to pay for a headline. President Obama’s birthplace was never an issue, but continues to fascinate a tiny minority that Sheriff Arpaio, for whatever reason, wants to impress. If he put half this much zeal and diligence into solving the 400-plus unresolved sex crimes cases he allowed to sit on the back burner, the public would be better served. This is a transparent smokescreen to cover up the federal grand jury investigation he’s facing. He continues to politicize his office as shamelessly as ever,” said Grijalva.
(source: http://www.kpho.com/story/17068692/how)
Bullcrap. I’ve worked with computers (Macs), scanners, Photoshop, and Illustrator since the early 1990’s.
If you scan a similar document (that contains handwritten text, typed text, and graphic elements such as stamps) , save it as a PDF, and open it in Illustrator, you will get a similar result to Obama’s PDF. EVERY TIME!
Who should I believe, you or my lying eyes?
Their claims are easily demonstrable as false. You don’t need to take my word- try it at home.
Can any birther explain how Obama’s selective service form could be a forgery when:
1- It came directly from the government as part of a FOIA request (Not from Obama or his campaign)
2- It was released in 2008, when Bush was President.
Was the Bush admin “in on it”?
Corsi’s new “new” book?
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/804/corsicover.jpg/
(HT Loren)
I need to remind you about birth certificate fraud case in New Jersey few years ago. A corrupt official placed forged documents on file. This allowed illegal aliens to show up at the DoH office and they were issued perfectly valid birth certificates by unsuspecting clerks.
I have seen it with my own eyes and I think you are full of it. Arpaio’s investigation presented videos showing that scan of a control document does NOT closely resemble Obama’s pdf file. Number of layers and their content was very different between the two files.
Well, since the truth is that he was born in HI, as repeatedly backed up by ALL evidence and every HI official with a say in the matter, let me ask you, WHY are YOU always so afraid and in denial of the truth? What is it about your motivations that you have to hide?
Yeah, but you are only a fool, who is always saying foolish things.
Your attempts to “ridicule” don’t do much, when the only one looking stupid as a result is always you. So yeah, good job coming across as a delusional idiot all the time. Well done!
*yawn*
Big deal. You mention some random fraud event in some unrelated state. Logic FAIL.
You really are just desperate and have nothing.
Face it, you wouldn’t be wasting your time here if you weren’t having an anxiety tantrum because all the BIrther efforts to date have been utter failure and your latest “great white hope” of Sheriff Joe Arpiao’s press conference didn’t turn into such a resounding DUD.
*shrug* Yeah, so what? You’ve been punked. That’s all. Arpaio’s big smoke & mirrors “press conference” all to give you false hope and yet end up doing nothing at all.
And none of the press or anyone other that you same gullible Birthers bought it. LOL!
You’re just bitter and p*ssing your pants because it came and went and nothing more is going to come of it. What a resounding DUD.
They are simply wrong. I have tried it with my own hands. I am not relying on someone else’s words. And you could try it too if you wanted to.
Read my links- Actual experts agree with me.
How did Obama place it into the Bush administration’s files?
How many times and when was Obama’s passport record breached? Who was president at that time?
US government officials including those at much higher positions than Hawaii DoH claimed that US had evidence of Iraq’s WMDs that could be deployed at very short notice. They even produced pictures of alleged sites where those weapons were stored.
USA invaded a foreign country based on false information parroted by various government officials. It is much safer for bureaucrats to follow the herd than challenge the official dogma.
Tim Adams signed a sworn affidavit that he was told by his supervisors that Obama’s birth certificate was not on file and there was no record in either hospital in Honolulu about his birth. It would be nice to have a hearing and confront Adams with Hawaii DoH officials to hear what they have to say under oath.
It is you Obot Quislings who do not want to find the truth. Otherwise, you would be calling for opening of government records about Obama (birth, passport, INS records…)
State Dept. employees viewed his records without proper authorization. No records were removed, planted, or altered. Obama had nothing to do with it.
Not the same.
Ariz. Sheriff Arpaio: Obama Birth Certificate ‘Computer Generated Forgery’
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/03/01/147737446/ariz-sheriff-arpaio-will-release-findings-on-obamas-birth-certificate?ft=1&f=1001
“Update at 11:46 p.m. ET. A Bit More On Layers:
Reader Beth Kerner points out in the comments that if you open the pdf of Obama’s birth certificate in Adobe Illustrator, it does, indeed show layers.
We tried it and the file does have layers. But we also opened a few other pdf documents on our computer and they all showed similar layers that isolate the text.”
Tim Adams (who first made his claims on a white supremacist’s radio show) debunked:
http://www.thefogbow.com/special-reports/tim-adams/
You don’t get it Obot, do you?
Talk is cheap – show me the video! What is your or Beth Kerner’s definition of “similar layers”? This has to be seen it cannot be debated.
If it were that simple, why bother listening to to people talk. Communication by oratory has been around far longer than video. I would not blow it off that easy.
And videos can be altered, it is not the holy grail of evidence.
You don’t get it Birther, Do You?
Cross-posted from the other thread, since you are now “not getting it” in two seperate threads:
“Birthers only believe it if it is on youtube, huh?
How about something much simpler- try it yourself. You don’t even have to scan anything if you don’t have a scanner. Do a Google search until you find a PDF similar in content to Obama’s LFBC, with areas that are typed, handwritten, and graphical elements. Open it in Adobe Illustrator and see the layers for yourself.
(I would supply you with a PDF or two, but would you trust them from an Obot?)”
Wow, you keep desperately having to change the subject to unrelated matters, don’t you? You really are having a tough time and going through a difficult tantrum… LOL!
Yeah, several different prominent politicians records have been breached by people authorizing them without access in the past. So what is your point?
…Oh that’s right, as usual, you don’t have one…
Yes, the Bush adminstration lied to us and pushed bad information. The lesson there is not to believe lies. You Birthers should learn that, since lies are all you go by.
Wow, you really are scrambling now. Trotting out long debunked and discredited low-level liar Tim Adams, I see. You mean the same one that officials said had no access to such records? LOL! Yeah, another one of these meaningless “daffydafits” that WND scams you gullible tools with…
Ah, I see you are having trouble with our English language again, foreign-born. See, the things you are mentioning are NOT “government” records, they are “private records” for an individual.
But then again, you’re not a very smart person, are you? Unless you have some biased agenda you would like to admit… Because you wouldn’t actually be demanding information of *only* Obama that you woudn’t demand of EVERY candidate, would you? Where are your “concerns” and proof of evidence of all these “records” you seem to care about for everyone else??? Why do YOU keep trying to hold Obama to a different standard?
Translation: *waaaaaaaah*
Awww, poor Birther. Really having a tough time at being Punked by WND yet again. You got so excited for your “great white hope”, Arpaio, and all he delivers to you is a re-hash of WND’s failed PDF arguments and no action.
Sorry, but there is no point in debating a non-issue on something as irrelevant as meaningless analyisis of image scans. But hey, keep crying your bitter Birther tears. Its all you’ve got.
No one at the Honolulu Elections Division had access to birth records or hospital records. It doesn’t matter whether Tim Adams made this up, or whether his supervisor made it up. They had no way to know.
Except that’s not what I said, is it…
I suggested you go to your AG, Attorney General, and demand an investigation.
Are you being intentionally obtuse, or do you find simple concepts difficult? If you cannot even read a simple sentence, how are we to believe you can judge the sincerity of Arpaio’s dog and pony show?
You saw a video with a bunch of pretty pictures that the “investigators” CLAIM means such and such.
I can show you a video of real live unicorns and leprechauns.
Why aren’t you going down to your AG office and demanding an investigation?