The opening paragraphs of my recent article, “Run Cruz, run!” started out as a comment at Birther Report. They posted a new article titled, “Backlash Warning: TP Publisher Under Fire For Suggesting Foreign-Born Candidate For POTUS” about the candidacy of Ted Cruz. My comment appeared second on the article, making it prominent. Here’s what I said:
While I personally think foreign-born Cruz is eligible because he was a US citizen at birth, there is certainly an argument to be made the other way. It will be interesting to see how strong the opposition to Cruz is compared with the parentage-based opposition to Obama.
If Cruz is a serious candidate, it would certainly be possible for a legitimate challenger for the Republican nomination to bring a lawsuit (even if it were a friendly suit) claiming that Cruz was ineligible, resulting in the adjudication of the definition of “natural born citizen” by the Supreme Court. I think that would be a good thing.
I knew that a comment that high up from someone like me would not be well-received, and I was right:
charlesmountain: No one gives a damn what you have to say, evil, disinfo fag… .Save it for your wack blog or pack it in your asscrack…whichever floats your tampon…
That’s not the whole comment. It goes on from there. I think this kind of poo flinging is designed to drive away the target.
I contemplated this article before the BR incident, mainly based on a series of comments exchanged on an article at WorldNetDaily called, “Obama’s identity fraud and Mickey Mouse media.” I’ve been commenting, along with Dave B., Ran Talbott and someone posting as Jan123456. On the other side are several birthers, notably three with the names of Veritas Aequitas and TruthToBeTold and Joseph Figarelli.
Here’s a comment from Dave B.:
The Supreme Court didn’t provide an exclusive definition of “natural born citizen” in Minor v. Happersett for ANY purpose– not for establishing the facts of the case, not for rationalizing the decision, and certainly not for the entirely unrelated purpose of presidential eligibility. What Chief Justice Waite DID do, however, is conflate native citizenship, acquired by birth in the United States, with natural born citizenship and presidential eligibility; as opposed to naturalized citizenship, acquired under Congress’s naturalization power. Native citizens are by no rational understanding of the term naturalized; they are and have always been natural born citizens.
And here is the reply from TruthToBeTold:
Another no argument comment from an idiot.
At another point I said:
And the Sheriff or Mike Zullo never proved any records were forged either. All of that stuff fell apart under scrutiny. We even caught Zullo lying and fabricating evidence in the 2nd news conference.
And here is the reply from TruthToBeTold:
Who is we? You are just a lonely old man that doesn’t have any friends that belongs in a padded white room.
And in another part of the massive thread I said:
Obama’s past is no more unknown than that of any other public figure, and his records are no more sealed that the records of anyone else. Obama released information in line with what other presidential candidates have released, some a little more, and some a little less. Romney wouldn’t release his tax return. Bush wouldn’t release his college grades (they got out by accident). McCain wouldn’t release his medical records or his birth certificate.
The idea that Obama is unknown and hiding his records is a total fraud and not true to the facts.
And got back from Joseph Figarelli:
What exactly are you smoking?, *** for brains.
I could go on for a very long time from that particular article, but these are good examples. I label this flinging poo to cover up impotence. I have lost my temper sometimes at birthers who are being particularly obtuse and will resort to calling them “idiot,” but never if they are trying to be reasonable. If someone makes an argument, I will respond appropriately. All told, I fling a lot less poo, and it is not as smelly.
I think part of the birther frustration at WND is that they are very poor birthers. They’re still living in the past with the Travel Ban to Pakistan that never existed. This particularly is pretty easy to pick apart, and they say things that they cannot back up when challenged. When that happens, all they can do is fling poo.
This has been birther MO from day 1.
Their entire fixation on “Obots” came from the need to not have their arguments questioned logically. One could say they were the first ones to bring “Alinsky tactics” to the table.
In a hilarious example of this, Gerbil Report just posted a video of someone they call a “Trend Forecaster” because he called Obama a “fraud” and a “disgrace”.
However, they apparently failed to realize that Youtube would load up the “recommended” list with his recent predictions of global economic collapse worse than the Great Depression, and food riots, poverty-induced crime waves and armed revolution in the U.S.
Not exactly a guy with his finger on the pulse of the nation…
Is Ted Cruz an American citizen at birth? We assume so, but to date we have seen no evidence to support it. He released a birth certificate that does no more than establish his Canadian citizenship. He has not released his consular report of birth abroad, which is the document that would establish his American citizenship at birth.
You are correct Elmo, That would be the key document to establish citizenship at birth. .
It is funny to read the comments at the article GR linked. The Birthers hate Obama so much they are perfectly willing and in fact eager to throw a candidate who might be the most ideologically aligned with the “Tea Party” under the bus because admitting he is an NBC would belie their fictitious definition of NBC.
When I saw that headline at GR it took me a while to realize “TP” didn’t mean toilet paper. I recommend always keeping plenty of TP handy when reading GR.
“…resulting in the adjudication of the definition of “natural born citizen” by the Supreme Court.”
Hey I thought Wong Kim Ark did that. Obots have saying that for years.
President Obama was born in Hawaii so the precedent of WKA would certainly apply to him. It is not so clear that it would apply to Cruz since he wasn’t born in th US.
For the record, as you must know, WKA did not settle the issue of natural born citizen in relation to someone who was born a citizen but born outside the country. People here have discussed that distinction and even implications of WKA, but the Supreme Court has not adjudicated that distinction.
As usual john doesn’t pay attention. It settled it for those born on US Soil.
I will confess to having referred to Adrien Nash as an idiot. Sometimes you just can’t hardly help yourself.
When my father was a little boy, his Italian great-grandfather was living with the family for a while. The old man would get Daddy, who was only five or six years old, to fix up his pipe for him and one day, Daddy got the bright idea to play a trick on him by filling the pipe with match heads under a layer of tobacco. Hilarity did not ensue. Anyway, and getting to the point of the story, my aunts said they heard the old man praying all night for forgiveness for calling little Cubaly–that’s how he pronounced Daddy’s name– a little son of a bitch, but the little son of a bitch shouldna done it.
john, here’s what you don’t understand, if there wasn’t a single anti-birther running around the web debunking all the foolishness that the birthers have been spouting, the President would still be the President eligible to serve out his 2 terms. We’re just here for entertainment, to see what other nonsense you folks can make up. You’ve NEVER had a leg to stand on for any of your BS…as shown by the courts, the Congress, and most importantly the people who elected him.
Ain’t it funny how birthers and RWNJs in general are always claiming that they’re standing for “We the people”, when in fact the people are strongly opposed to them and their efforts.
If Cruz had been born in the U.S. with an American mother and a Cuban father, he would definitely be a natural born citizen per Wong Kim Ark.
But Cruz was born in Canada, and Wong Kim Ark doesn’t discuss the citizenship of people born outside the U.S.
The circumstances of Cruz’ birth are not analogous to the circumstances of Obama’s birth. However, the birth of Bobby Jindal is analogous to Obama’s birth, and Jindal is a natural born citizen per Wong Kim Ark.
I believe that John McCain is a natural born citizen and I believe that Ted Cruz is a natural born citizen, but the Wong Kim Ark decision has no relevance to either of them.
Frankly, I’m impressed Doc is able to post at WND; the mods must be asleep. People get banned there for making comments that simply disagree with the articles – no profanities necessary. I don’t go to that trash heap anymore due to the fact that I was banned after one comment, and I don’t abide censorship. They can play in their hugbox all they like.
I got banned from WND when I suggested (on an article about Ann Dunham) that Barbara Bush liked to dress up like the guy on the Quaker Oats box for sexytime with George.
Well I treat Cruz like I have treated all Presidential candidates- I presume that he is a U.S. citizen. I agree he hasn’t proven it, but there is no obligation for him to do so even if he were an official candidate.
I think it’s more likely that management likes him.
Doc drives traffic and revenue by providing a Goldstein for their daily Fourteen Hundred Thirty Two Minutes Hate.
He has a well-known and respected blog on which he could document and disseminate the events surrounding a ridiculous ban or moderation.
His continued presence allows GR to pretend that it’s not a tyrannically-controlled echo chamber that suppresses most dissent.
I don’t know what specifically got me banned on WND, but it was a couple days before the 2011 elections after I had challenged several very vocal “you Obots will all be in jail in a few weeks” nuts to a bet that Obama would win the election.
One “David in MA,” commenting over at the Freedom Outpost cesspool:
“And, here is why I believe so:
Being “born to a military family” in itself never made ANYBODY a US citizen. Here’s the ONLY law that COULD have applied to Senator McCain’s US citizenship on August 29, 1936 (Sec. 1993 of the Revised Statutes):
“Any child hereafter born out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States, whose father or mother or both at the time of birth of such child is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States: but the rights of citizenship shall not descend to any such child unless the citizen father or citizen mother, as the case may be, has resided in the United States previous to the birth of such child. In cases where one of the parents is an alien, the right of citizenship shall not descend unless the child comes to the United States and resides therein for at least five years continuously immediately previous to his eighteenth birthday, and unless, within six months after the child’s twenty-first birthday, he or she shall take an oath of allegiance to the United States of America as prescribed by the Bureau of Naturalization.”
There’s no reference at all to being “born to a military family.””
http://freedomoutpost.com/2015/01/will-natural-born-citizen-requirements-president-haunt-gop-candidates-2016/#comment-1812306993
Makes perfect sense to me, as well it should– although if it makes little sense in the context in which this other David used it. It makes perfect sense to me because I said it myself back in December in a reply to his comment:
“your an idiot, no idea what you speak, so, go away comrade, go away.”
Receiving in turn THIS reply,
“It appears I am communicating with a useful idiot, liberal, socialist supported…. And once again it is proven “speaking” with a liberal is an exercise in insanity…. good-by Obama supported, you don’t know what your talking about.”
https://disqus.com/home/discussion/freedomoutpost/obama_some_are_pretty_sure_im_an_illegal_immigrant/#comment-1739548464
So in the course of a little over a month I have gone from being “a useful idiot, liberal, socialist supported” to being an unattributed source. It’s like Adam said to Eve, stand back– I don’t know how big this thing is going to get.