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The Great Mother of All Off-Topic Comment Dumps

Dr. Conspiracy

Dr. Conspiracy

While this blog doesn’t censor comments, I also want the blog to be useful for visitors. Being useful includes topic organization.

There are some topics which are simply beyond the scope of this blog, and that includes comments about whether the Obama administration has good or bad policies or whether peanut butter is safe.

To further both goals, I have created this article where off topic comments may be lodged. Further, by fiat, comments place elsewhere may be moved here. Because the comment move facility is somewhat primitive, it is possible that replies to off-topic comments may lose their connection to the original comment (or maybe disappear totally).

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459 Responses to The Great Mother of All Off-Topic Comment Dumps

  1. avatar
    Norma Dacl March 3, 2009 at 10:55 am #

    You bet and, after 4-8 years of big government and “taxation without representation” (doesn’t that sound familiar), we are all going to question our delusions of grandeur and the fact that we were mesmerized by this incredibly powerful human being. Too late now……he is untouchable. Hope Nancy is ready for the eventual fallout.

  2. avatar
    Bob March 3, 2009 at 11:36 am #

    You bet and, after 4-8 years of big government and “taxation without representation”

    Only DC suffers from taxation without representation, an issue that predates Obama.

  3. avatar
    TRUTH March 23, 2009 at 1:40 pm #

    What one might ask is “Why is this man getting more negative attention than any other President in history? More negative than probably the other 43 combined practically.

    Is it because he is black…I don’t think so. Most the people that voted against him would honestly like to vote in a black man.

    Is it because he is half white? No way it is that.

    Is it because he has a law degree and is a natural good liar? Nah, that rarely comes up…the degree part that is. The liar part has become a given.

    Is it because he is a Democrat? Actually I don’t think so. If he were “Just” a democrat most conservatives would not like him, but they would accept him.

    I could go on and on. The point being…. WHAT IS IT?

    I have my suspicions, but they are no more than that. This being a FACT-Based blog site, I’ll reserve my opinions.

  4. avatar
    NBC March 23, 2009 at 1:54 pm #

    The negative attention comes from a relatively small group and is not much different from the ‘attention’ George Bush received for starting the war in Iraq.
    Some people fear change and the natural response is to reject it at all cost. I am not sure how seriously I should take your ‘analysis’ which fails to present much of any argument.

  5. avatar
    Zuzu March 23, 2009 at 5:03 pm #

    I’d guess that anyone who dwells in the blogospheric echo chamber too long loses perspective.

    I suggest you get out more often.

  6. avatar
    Zuzu March 23, 2009 at 5:07 pm #

    Well, except that the attention GWB received for starting the war came from journalists with proven track records, in every media. From all over the world. And from high-ranking government officials.

    And it was based on objectively verifiable evidence.

    Those are some pretty big differences right there.

  7. avatar
    TRUTH March 23, 2009 at 7:58 pm #

    The SAME Liberal media that aided an Unqualified Candidate to get elected President, OH THAT media, I gotcha.

    As for NBC’s comment on it being a “relatively small group”, that comment tells me just how clueless you are to the amount of people who don’t believe Obama should be in cabinet. It is You and Zuzu that should get out more often, not I. You have your heads buried in the liberal sand believing all that garbage about “change” NBC couldn’t get through a post without saying “Change”. It has been embedded into your heads.

    But anyways, do you SERIOUSLY not know about the Continental Congress 2009? In a short time, there will be an extremely large group of Americans standing up to the unfaithful politicians insisting they answer the questions they have been avoiding all along, only to ensure this usurper stays in office. Maybe he will stay in, maybe he won’t, but he WILL answer the questions.

  8. avatar
    TRUTH March 23, 2009 at 8:01 pm #

    …PS… 57MILLION + did NOT vote for your man. That isn’t a “relatively small group”. And if only a small percentage of that group supports the right cause, that group won’t be small either.

  9. avatar
    TRUTH March 23, 2009 at 8:03 pm #

    Speaking of Blogos….hows that Illinois Democrat doing these days? The only difference between him and the others still in office…. he got caught.

  10. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 23, 2009 at 8:48 pm #

    NBC, you must not listen to conservative talk radio.

  11. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 23, 2009 at 9:01 pm #

    No, I don’t know about Continental Congress 2009. I know about the National Grand Jury, and Andy Martin’s National Conference on Obama’s Birth Certificate, but not anything about a Continental Congress.

  12. avatar
    Zuzu March 23, 2009 at 10:26 pm #

    And yet two out of three Americans approve of the job President Obama is doing.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Job-Approval.aspx

    Go figure.

  13. avatar
    mimi March 24, 2009 at 3:33 pm #

    Hem’s reprimand.
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/13613272/27OrderFindingRule11Violation3242008

    PatG at PJ’s pointed out footnote 4. (last page)

    Discussion at PJ’s.

  14. avatar
    TRUTH March 24, 2009 at 7:30 pm #

    CC 2009 is in motion. It is no secret, but I won’t attempt to describe it here, mainly because my lack of ability to do it justice but also because I’m not here to recruit for it. Remember the name, you’ll hear it again.

  15. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 24, 2009 at 7:42 pm #

    Ah, the tax protesters, wethepeoplefoundation.org. The government forced them to shut down their web site telling people how to cheat on their taxes. They were behind the anti-Obama newspaper ad in Chicago, and promoters of the infamous misrepresented block 7C on the Hawaiian birth form, later removed from their web site after the a patriotic American devoted to the truth called them them up and challenged it.

  16. avatar
    TRUTH March 24, 2009 at 7:43 pm #

    If your going to put some worth in polls, here at least is a more descriptive one.

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/obama_approval_index_history

    I particularly like the “Strongly” numbers, which are essentially from people that feel strong on his issues. +4 is nothing to croon about. Nor is having 43% total disapproval. That is a LOT of Americans, and INCREASING fast, that don’t like what he is doing to our country.

  17. avatar
    TRUTH March 24, 2009 at 7:54 pm #

    heres my Barrack imitation.. “blah blah LIE, blah blah (avoid the question) blah blah (use lots of adjectives) (campaign campaign campaign) and nobody is more concerned than I am.”

    I LUV how when asked about the 7-9trillion dollar debt coming, he says “republicans forget I took over a 1.3 trillion debt…….we will cut the national debt in half.” LIAR

    He tries to refocus the blame STILL on the past, even if 1.3 is a fraction of what is he doing, and denying. And he quickly looked for the next question.

    When asked if he’ll sign the budget without it having mid-class tax cuts, guess what, he campaigns and avoids the question.

    Gentlemen, you’ve been bamboozled. This man doesn’t believe the DOW is a sign of the economic status, or if he does he doesn’t want YOU to realize it is.

  18. avatar
    TRUTH March 24, 2009 at 8:08 pm #

    As for that tax stuff, I don’t know what thats all about, and don’t care.

    But I appreciate the call out. I’d forgotten about that. Funny thing, I went to his meeting here a few weeks back, and it never crossed my mind that was the same man I’d told to fix his website. haha. I’d forgotten about it until I just read it here. Hey, I’m forgetful, what can I say.

    Not sure why you say that website is down. It works on my website. You should get to one of those meetings, you’d luv it.

  19. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 24, 2009 at 8:38 pm #

    It’s not the current web site that was taken down.

    The United States government sought an injunction requiring Robert Schulz and his nonprofit organizations dedicated to “‘institutionalizing’ citizen vigilance and governmental accountability” to remove information promoting the non-payment of income taxes from the organizations’ websites http://www.givemeliberty.org, http://www.wethepeoplecongress.org, and http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org.

    The websites provided information suggesting that the federal income tax is voluntary, that the Sixteenth Amendment was not properly ratified, and that citizens should choose not to pay taxes. The websites provided, among other things, a set of materials called a “Tax Termination Package” (offered for free but with a suggested donation) that provided step-by-step instructions on how to avoid paying taxes.

    The United States sued Schulz and the organizations, alleging that their behavior breached the Internal Revenue Code (IRC). Specifically, the U.S. alleged that defendants made false or fraudulent statements regarding tax benefits in connection with the sale of a plan or arrangement in violation of 26 USC § 6700, and knowingly prepared a document which would result in understatement of another person’s tax liability in violation of IRC § 6701. The U.S. relied on the court’s power to grant an injunction under IRC § 7408 to restrain behavior that breaches the above provisions.

    Defendants claimed that the publication was protected by the First Amendment. They also claimed that the government had failed to show how the publications breached the tests set out in the cited provisions of the IRC.

    On August 9, 2007, the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of New York granted the government’s motion for summary judgment, accepting that information helping people to evade income tax did not merit First Amendment protection. The court issued an injunction ordering defendants to remove “all tax-fraud scheme promotional materials, false commercial speech concerning the internal revenue laws, and speech likely to incite others imminently to violate the internal revenue laws” from their websites. The judge did not call for the websites to be taken off the Internet.

    The injunction also required defendants to reveal the names, e-mail addresses, social security numbers, and other personal information of people who obtained their information packs to the Internal Revenue Service . On the defendants’ motion, the court later stayed this part of the injunction pending appeal to the Second Circuit Court of Appeals.

    On February 22, 2008, the Second Circuit affirmed the District Court’s decision and ordered defendants to provide the requested information about the individuals who received the tax packets.

    http://www.citmedialaw.org/threats/united-states-v-givemelibertyorg

  20. avatar
    TRUTH March 24, 2009 at 8:48 pm #

    What may I ask motivated you to post that ‘particular’ bit of information in the first place even?

  21. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 24, 2009 at 8:54 pm #

    I LUV how when asked about the 7-9trillion dollar debt coming, he says “republicans forget I took over a 1.3 trillion debt…….we will cut the national debt in half.”

    That should be 1.3 trillion “deficit”. The National Debt passed $10 trillion last October.

    http://www.usnews.com/blogs/new-money/2008/10/09/maxing-out-the-national-debt-clock.html

    Same for what will be cut in half: deficit, not debt.

    http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1446336,CST-NWS-ob24.article

  22. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 24, 2009 at 8:58 pm #

    Wasn’t it obvious? I was trying to paint WeThePeopleFoundation as a crank organization that subscribes to crackpot legal theories.

  23. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 24, 2009 at 9:02 pm #

    Rasmussen is a scientific poll like WorldNetDaily is an independent news organization.

  24. avatar
    Zuzu March 24, 2009 at 10:49 pm #

    To Truth @ 7:43 pm:

    Well, you are the one who brought up percentages and numbers.

    Interesting that one of the least neutral and reliable of all polls still gives Obama a 56% approval rating, just a few points down from the more respectable outfits.

  25. avatar
    TRUTH March 25, 2009 at 5:54 am #

    Least Neutral? What grounds do you have for that? Just because it doesn’t have the best possible numbers in your favor it is least reliable? Is that taught in chapter 4 of the liberal training manual?

    You don’t get it do you? This is not a basketball game where the biggest number wins. That overall 43% and climbing is a LOT of people that don’t like the way their country is being changed. I’ll give Obama that, when he said change he meant it, but it didn’t necessarily mean in our favor.

    And you need to look again at that rating +4 as well as the trend of the poll numbers. It isn’t going the direction, like the pollers or not, that BHO wants it to.

  26. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 25, 2009 at 8:28 am #

    Rasmussen consistently tracks Obama below other polls, even prior to the election they showed trends that weren’t there according to the election returns. It’s just not a reliable poll.

    But I don’t follow polls. I’m much more interested in what the unemployment rate is in 2 years, and the number of Americans without health insurance.

    I was just forced to lay someone off about 10 minutes ago and I am frankly sick to my stomach. If we don’t so something, a lot more of us are going in the crapper. Obama’s plan has a chance. If the obstructionists prevent Obama’s plan from going forward, then there will be nothing. You take your choice.

  27. avatar
    TRUTH March 25, 2009 at 8:50 am #

    I made my choice Nov 4th, I don’t have one now, but I get your point.

    Thanks for the debt/deficit correction. It inspired me to “learn”. Here is a link I found educational.

    http://www.federalbudget.com/

  28. avatar
    Heavy March 25, 2009 at 10:29 am #

    That’s the problem, doc. People who say we must do SOMETHING are willing to settle for ANYTHING!

    Your messiah has appointed a bunch of crooks, yes crooks, to “Create” policies that are priven losers. The government CANNOT spend its way out of a recession. This has been proven time and again.

    Liberals are easy marks and always have been. You feel bad about laying someone off? Hold on tight, its only going to get worse with these clowns.

    See, this is all part of the plan. The piece of dung is doing so much damage so quickly that he thinks it is distracting us from his illegal status. And once the truth is out, which will happen, it will be too late.

    This guy must be stopped “By whatever means necessary” to qoute one of his idols, Malcolm X.

  29. avatar
    Chris March 25, 2009 at 11:09 am #

    If you’re at all interested in polling data, this is the place to go…

    http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/03/worst-pollster-in-world-strikes-again.html

  30. avatar
    TRUTH March 25, 2009 at 10:07 pm #

    It IS?! hahaha. Thats a great example. That website appears to have ended 4 NOV 2008. Yesterdays news(blues), not the poll data I’m looking for.

  31. avatar
    mimi March 26, 2009 at 1:15 pm #

    Orly did NOT have a good time in D.C.

    http://defendourfreedoms.us/2009/03/26/letter-to-chief-justice-roberts-032609.aspx

  32. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 26, 2009 at 2:13 pm #

    Orly says: “One of old maxims in legal practice, is that the substance trumps form.”

    That’s her problem. All her filings have the form of lawsuits, but they have no substance; they are frivolous.

  33. avatar
    Zuzu March 26, 2009 at 3:06 pm #

    Silver has great analysis and commentary.

    For a collection of major polling data on a broad array of topics (including Pres. favorability and job approval ratings), I check out http://www.pollingreport.com .

  34. avatar
    Zuzu March 26, 2009 at 3:09 pm #

    Any way to find out what this says without going to her site? I’d rather not give her the traffic, much less my IP address.

    Thanks.

  35. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 26, 2009 at 6:40 pm #

    Here it is. What is much scarier is the commenters where one says “If this leads to Civil War, bring it on!”

    Counsel for the Petitioners in Lightfoot v Bowen
    Counsel for the Petitioners in Easterling et al v Obama et al

    Chief Justice John J. Roberts
    Supreme Court of the United States

    This is to remind you that on 03.13.09. I have presented you with the motion for reconsideration in Lightfoot v Bowen, Quo Warranto in Easterling et al v Obama et al and a 164 page dossier of suspected illegal and criminal activity surrounding Mr. Obama and his supporters, that was written on 03.01.09 and sent on Attorney general Holder on 03.03.09. In front of 1200 students and faculty of the University of Moscow, Idaho you agreed to review those documents. This is a matter of National Security and National urgency and as of yet there was no response from you or Attorney General Holder, nor Robert Mueller, Director of FBI, that was copied on this dossier.
    On 03.25.09. I arrived to the Washington DC and personally had delivered copies of the above documents to both the Supreme Court and the Department of Justice.
    I have received a letter from your clerk William K Suter, that relates to the pleadings received on the 23rd and does not mention any documents submitted on the 13th, and I am not sure you are aware of this letter, as you didn’t seem to be aware of other matters in the Supreme Court. Mr. Suter stated, that Quo Warranto and Writ of Mandamus don’t comply with the rules and I can file a petition for exraordinary writ of MANDAMUS, and I have to file it with the court. He didn’t specify what rules he is talking about and this statement seems to be incorrect, since I have filed Quo Warranto as an original jurisdiction case, which doesn’t need to be in the form of extraordinary writ of Mandamus. Mr. Suter also stated that the Rules of this Court make no provision for the Motion for Reconsideration of an application, however the rules of this court make no provision for many other out of the ordinary acts, that happened on your watch, including and not limited to:
    1. Justices of the Supreme Court meeting behind close doors with Obama, who is a person of interest and subject of litigation of my petition, that was scheduled to be heard only a few days later.
    2. Any mention of my case, stating that Mr. Obama is ineligible for US presidency, being erased from the External docket of the Supreme Court right after the inauguration and two days before the case was supposed to be heard.
    3. Your clerks lying to the citizens and defaming me by claiming that the above events didn’t happen, even though hundreds of citizens saw it and are prepared to testify in court in regards to such events.
    4. Clerk Danny Bickel on his own accord refusing to file one of two supplemental briefs I’ve submitted.
    5. Your Justices having no clue about any of Obama ineligibility cases, that they supposedly heard in conference five times.
    6. Supreme Court Justice getting all of this information and doing nothing about, while under an obligation to act and correct the wrong.
    7. Supreme Court Justices getting information in regarding to criminal activity and not reporting it for further investigation by law enforcement.
    8. Supreme Court Justices deciding not to hear on the merits any and all cases in regards to president’s ineligibility, while finding more value in a case deling with the rights of smokers of light cigarettes to sue tobacco. It appears the right of a few trial lawyers to make millions of dollars of such litigation was more important then the right of 305 million Americans to have a legitimate president.
    9. Yesterday, on 03.25.09. I was able to meet with the National Selective Service Director, Mr. Chatfield, who could not explain any inconsistencies and suspected signs of forgery in the Selective Service Certificate presented to the public by Mr. Obama. For example, according to the retired federal agent Coffman, the serial number of the certificate on the top shows first two numbers to be 08, meaning it was created in 2008, while on the bottom an extra 8 was added, to make it look like it was created in 1980. Similarly, National Director was clueless and provided no explanation to the wrong seal, wrong dates and wrong form number.
    9. Recently I have read the book “Making your Case”, that Justice Scalia autographed for me. On page 77 it states ” Another factor distinctive to petitions for certiorari is that the judges don’t like to spend a lot of time deciding what to decide. Indeed in most courts they won’t even read the brief in support of your petition but will rely on summaries (or on selection of particular briefs) by law clerks’. When you have unscrupulous clerks and the issue is National Security this is inconceivable.

    One of old maxims in legal practice, is that the substance trumps form. The substance dictates, that under such conditions, it is your obligation to uphold the constitution of the United States and to issue a stay to Mr. Obama’s functioning in the capacity of the president and commander in Chief and give him a reasonable time of 24 hours or 48 hours to present all of his vital records or sign a consent for release of such records. If he is not willing to do so, then per the 20th amendment, Mr. Biden becomes a temporary president for two or three months, until a new president and be chosen in a special election.
    Justice Roberts, if you are unwilling to do so, it is your constitutional and moral duty to resign and let another Justice uphold the Constitution of the United States of America.

    Respectfully submitted.
    and is being hand delivered on my way to the airport, flying back to California,

    Dr. Orly Taitz, ESQ
    Counsel for the Petitioners.

  36. avatar
    awe_and_shock March 26, 2009 at 6:45 pm #

    Correction, should be “University of Idaho at Moscow”. She must of gotten it confused with th e homeland.

  37. avatar
    Zuzu March 26, 2009 at 7:02 pm #

    Thanks, Dr. C.

    Wow, that is one giant sized bag o’ crazy.

  38. avatar
    kimba March 26, 2009 at 8:28 pm #

    Yikes. Orly wants to be treated differently than any other petitioner to the Supreme Court. She thinks she is entitled to bypass all court rules and etiquette and take her argument right to the Justices, and insult them and their staff on the way. Will they ignore her or put the smackdown on her? ( Oh, please, hoping for a major slap!)

  39. avatar
    mimi April 1, 2009 at 2:26 am #

    http://www.politijab.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=804&start=50

    Hi Doc!
    CB has provided info regarding Orly’s constant misinformation about the “Soetoro” listed in the California Assembly as an Exchange Student. As I saw Orly still harping on this in that tv appearance, I didn’t know if you had covered it. Graphics and everything.

  40. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 1, 2009 at 6:19 am #

    No, I hadn’t covered it.

  41. avatar
    Chris April 1, 2009 at 5:27 pm #

    And now there’s this. Even the arch-conservatives are telling the birthers to give up already…

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/01/major-conservative-site-d_n_181823.html

  42. avatar
    John Roberts April 2, 2009 at 2:23 am #

    MImi: The republicans and (few) democrats who oppose this so-called stimulus plan are trying to save you and me, but more importantly, our entire Republic! Did you know that Congress was given less than one hour to read the (over) 1200 page bill? That was done on purpose (peer pressure) in an attempt to pull the wool over all their eyes. The bill basically allows elite bankers to hijack our own money and then loan it back to us at 30% interest.

    FACT: The people tapped by Obama to get us out of the financial crisis are the very same people who engineered it. Rahm Emanauel, Obama’s Chief of Staff, singlehandedly engineered the bank bailout. And all major bank & brokerage firms were exempt from any regulation anyway.

    Now Obama’s on “damage control” so he’s bad-mouthing AIG (and others) for paying out legally binding bonuses with funds that his cronies gave them. And then we have Tim Geitner, the new Secretary of the Treasury. He used to be the chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York (raising a serious conflict of interest to say the least). He came directly from the very entity that’s been robbing the U.S. since 1913! And a few years ago, Geitner was instrumental in removing the banking regulations (the U.S. had in place for decades) that would’ve prevented this current crisis that we are now in. Obama is the biggest Wall Street puppet, ever!

    Obama, has done the opposite of everything he said he would do. For example, his Iraq pull-out timetable has changed at least 3 times. He used this type of rhetoric (lies) to pander the “sheeple” for votes. He knows he can’t actually get us out of wars that more powerful people (than him) got us into. Obama=Fraud!

  43. avatar
    mimi April 2, 2009 at 10:31 pm #

    New suit Doc. Craig v. United States
    http://foundersowndreams.blogspot.com/2009/04/civil-rights-complaint-natural-born.html

    Leo commented: “[Ed. the court you filed with has no power under the Constitution grant you relief. Your case will be dismissed.]

    http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/the-georgia-citizens-grand-jury-must-be-condemned/#comment-6266

    Found by Tes:
    http://www.politijab.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=912

  44. avatar
    TRUTH April 7, 2009 at 2:36 pm #

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=93696

    OK, just WHAT in the WORLD is THAT all about? The PRESIDENT of the UNITED STATES bows to a Saudi King? Has he lost his freggin mind? NO, no he has not, because he is showing his true colors and what he believes in by this act. This is not an act of respect, or if it is Obama is much dumber than I gave him credit for.

    The COMMANDER IN CHIEF of the best country on this planet should NOT bow. Did he bow to the Queen of England? I think Obama would make a wonderful Head of of some Arab or Persian country, he sure caters to them a lot.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WlqW6UCeaY

  45. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 7, 2009 at 3:24 pm #

    I have said this before. Obama is a very different person than what we’re used to in the White House.

    Bow? Bow ?????

    How about this? And this?

  46. avatar
    Heavy April 7, 2009 at 3:59 pm #

    Come on, Doc! What he did was incredulous.

  47. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 7, 2009 at 4:24 pm #

    I have always made a habit of bowing to my employees who come from cultures where this is the custom. It has been very effective at building mutual respect and loyalty.

    I personally am having fun watching Obama break the mold. There’s no way that the bow Obama gave will have a negative impact on our foreign relations, which after all was the purpose of the visit.

    Being a slave to petty local political perceptions is a weakness, not a strength. I go for Obama’s pragmatic approach.

    The conservatives may squeal and replay that video until the universe’s supply of free electrons runs out. It won’t help the country one bit.

  48. avatar
    NBC April 7, 2009 at 4:37 pm #

    This is not an act of respect, or if it is Obama is much dumber than I gave him credit for.

    Or it is an act of respect by a very clever President. Of course, until recently we have not had much chance to observe either…

  49. avatar
    NBC April 7, 2009 at 4:38 pm #

    Incredulous – : unwilling to admit or accept what is offered as true

    That seems to match you Heavy…

  50. avatar
    Heavy April 8, 2009 at 8:15 am #

    It was an act of deference brought on by lack of experience. Not only is this clown illegal, he is an embarrassment.

  51. avatar
    Heavy April 8, 2009 at 8:17 am #

    Doc, I always knew you were delusional about this guy, but now i think you are actually CRAZY!

    Pragmatic? Please look up the definition and TRY to explain how.

  52. avatar
    Heavy April 8, 2009 at 8:19 am #

    They will never end until this clown is deposed!

    You sick peopel will NOT be allowed to destroy this country.

  53. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 8, 2009 at 8:30 am #

    I would not jump to the conclusion that it was the lack of experience as opposed to a deliberate and conscious decision the purpose of which was to encourage the other side to be more receptive to our interests.

    We simply do not know whether the bow was discussed and debated before hand or it was a spur of the moment gesture.

    I prefer not to base my opinions on the lack of information.

    My general observation that Obama is a pragmatist comes from his book, The Audacity of Hope.

  54. avatar
    Heavy April 8, 2009 at 8:35 am #

    That is even more dangerous! Regardless of wether if was planned or not. This guy is out of control.

  55. avatar
    thisoldhippie April 8, 2009 at 8:56 am #

    I seriously believe the problem that people are having with this simple act of respect is that Americans are without a doubt, extremely ethnocentric. We resent having to learn a foreign language in school as we feel everyone should learn English. We rebelled against the metric system and so we continue to use an outdated system of measurement that is not compatable anywhere else. We feel we are God’s gift and above all other cultures and countries. I’m afraid we will one day have a very hard lesson to learn as arrogance goes before a fall.

  56. avatar
    Heavy April 8, 2009 at 9:51 am #

    Who is “WE”?

    I don’t someone to apologize on my behalf for something YOU feel guilt for.

    Just because YOU feel WE are arrogant does not make it so. This fool has NO right to say the things he has said.

  57. avatar
    NBC April 8, 2009 at 10:56 am #

    Just because YOU feel WE are arrogant does not make it so. This fool has NO right to say the things he has said.

    Talking to yourself again Heavy….

  58. avatar
    NBC April 8, 2009 at 10:58 am #

    He surely is out of your control… Which is part of the problem isn’t it? The idea that we have a well informed, articulate and intelligent president whose goal it is to improve the world in which we live must be scary to some…
    Diplomacy is something this country has been lacking for the last 8 years or so, and we may be somewhat uncomfortable when we see it being used instead of threats of destruction

  59. avatar
    NBC April 8, 2009 at 11:01 am #

    Haha… 4 more years 🙂

  60. avatar
    Rick A Hyatt April 8, 2009 at 1:23 pm #

    As a life-long espionage operative, at one time actually also unknowingly an Agent for the Commies, I was long ago “Turned,” as used to lure out their agents, moles & assassins. I was ordered to remember how the Enemy went by the phrase, “To teach them well, train them young.” Then I was ordered, in 1977, to remember, repress, & independently broadcast just how far back Gary Condit’s “Training” went, as well as some Indonesian Connection I would remember as being groomed by the Commies for this eventual Coup D’Edat of the Presidency with this election. How to lure out all the moles? “Just fly a Barry Soetono from the Flagpole & see who salutes” is the good news revelation for the American People as SCOTUS will rule soon on his constitutional ineligibility to be Pres, or even sign any laws nor treaties. A ROYAL SURPRISE TO COME FOR THE CHICOMS! http://www.rickhyatt.freeservers.com for MORE.

  61. avatar
    TRUTH April 8, 2009 at 4:58 pm #

    “We feel we are God’s gift and above all …blah blah blah..”

    OldHippie, if “WE” means you and the people you live with or associate with ok. I don’t recall voting you in as my representative. Speak for yourself when you blow smoke out your pipehole.

  62. avatar
    TRUTH April 8, 2009 at 5:01 pm #

    IN addition, I kinda believe “WE” as Americans have every right to be Proud of our country. It is the #1 country the world wants to migrate to. We must have SOMETHING they like here. Oh yeah, it’s called FREEDOM, for now at least. Until your new government leaders take over everything from your salary to what you drive and who you will see when you get a cold. Until they screw things up, your damn right I’m Proud of the USA. If your not, Move.

  63. avatar
    Heavy April 9, 2009 at 8:29 am #

    Stop smoking all that weed, Hippie.

  64. avatar
    NBC April 9, 2009 at 10:37 am #

    What’s your excuse Heavy?

  65. avatar
    Heavy April 9, 2009 at 11:30 am #

    Excuse for what? Wanting the truth? Supporting the Constitution?

  66. avatar
    NBC April 9, 2009 at 12:29 pm #

    You have shown no indication that you are interested in the truth, what you want is your truth for which you hide behind the Constitution.
    You do have shown some of your true colors though and for that I thank you.

  67. avatar
    mimi April 10, 2009 at 7:31 am #

    Morning Doc.,
    Phil Berg has announced his intention to appeal. It’s posted at O.C., but I am banned there. You can see the PR here.
    http://richardrandallshow.blogspot.com/2009/04/latest-on-obama-lawsuit.html

  68. avatar
    Bob April 10, 2009 at 10:19 am #

    Obama’s attorney has stated they’ll seek sanctions if the appeal isn’t dismissed:

    http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=94409

  69. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 10, 2009 at 10:50 am #

    I’m glad WND included a copy of Bauer’s letter, because otherwise I wouldn’t have believed them, given their track record for misreporting in this area. One statement in the WND article is blatantly false:

    But Robertson quickly backed away when Hemenway noted the judge had cited hearsay in his ruling.

    What Hemenway noted was that the provision under which Judge Robertson was going to apply sanctions had recently changed and didn’t allow sanctions any more.

  70. avatar
    mimi April 12, 2009 at 11:27 am #

    Doc,
    Check out Orly’s website. Trouble in the birther world. Orly’s domain names do not belong to her. They were to be transferred, but it appears Orly has told one too many lies.

    http://www.defendourfreedoms.us/

    Quote by Lisa: “Here is a tip to make note of from the NetWorld. If you want to trash you webmaster. You may want to acquire your domains first. Because now, I am immediately canceling the transfer of DefendOurFreedoms.US. I am cancelling it to point it to this blog post. You have made it so I have to Defend MySelf.

    Oh, and for anyone wondering about the PayPal scandal. Just ask Orly, where is the PayPal report.”
    =========
    The whole story is at the site.

  71. avatar
    TRUTH April 15, 2009 at 10:48 pm #

    I have to tell about the best thing I heard in a long time on an AM radio show last week. They were taking calls on the subject..”What’s your Favorite JOE BIDEN Lie?”. I don’t care who you are, that there’s FUNNY!! Biden is about as dumb as a bag of hair and advertises it with his lips.

  72. avatar
    GOTH April 17, 2009 at 9:25 am #

    hi

  73. avatar
    GOTH April 17, 2009 at 9:37 am #

    GOOD AND EVIL?RIGHT OR WRONG? ACTION VERSUS INACTION-IN YOUR MIND AND THE CIRCUMSTANCES YOU ARE UNDER-WHICH EVER STRESSES YOUR MIND THE MOST IS WHAT WILL DECIDE YOUR CHOICE.ACTION VERSUS INACTION; IT IS BETWEEN REASON/INTELLECT AND YOUR EMOTIONAL FEELINGS.GOOD- EVIL DON’T APPLY TO THE ANIMAL KINGDOM;ONLY SURVIVAL AND THE MOST BASICS.GOOD AND EVIL IS A EXCLUSIVELY HUMAN ONLY SELF INTEREST IN OTHERS ESPECIALLY IN A PACK ANIMAL TRIBES LIKE WOLVES BUT STRICTER.

  74. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 17, 2009 at 10:26 am #

    Hi.

  75. avatar
    God Listens... to SLAYER April 17, 2009 at 11:25 am #

    What the [expletive deleted]? you are a goth but you spit words like a hippy, are you on the inside, i hate political factions, almost as much as i hate you!

    [This comment has been edited to as indicated and the URL deleted as possible spam.]

  76. avatar
    GOTH April 17, 2009 at 4:10 pm #

    HITLER HAD THE RIGHT IDEA-PROOF, LOOK AT AMERICAN CULTURAL CONFUSION AND RACIAL DISPLACEMENT.NOT JUST AMERICA BUT THE WORLD. WHAT WAS EVIL TO YOU IS WHAT MAKES THEM PROUD.THE WINNERS ALWAYS DEMONIZE THE LOSERS IN WAR.HITLER WAS FAR TOO LIBERAL FOR ME.THERE IS NO DEFINATE PROOF THAT 6,OOO,OOO MILLION JEW CORPSES WERE ALL COUNTED FOR IN THE HOLOCAUST,JUST THEIR EMPTY WORDS.’EQUALITY’ DOES NOT WORK IN NATURE OR THE ANIMAL KINGDOM,STUDIES ALL PROVE THESE OBVIOUS FACTS.

  77. avatar
    GOTH April 21, 2009 at 9:23 am #

    WITHOUT HETEROSEXUALS,REPRODUCTION IS IMPOSSIBLE AND HOMOSEXUALS WOULD CEASE TO EXIST FROM THE WORLD.HETEROSEXUALS FOLLOW NATURAL LAW.DO HOMOSEXUALS?

  78. avatar
    Heavy April 22, 2009 at 11:15 am #

    Hey, let’s foget about Orly for now. We have US officials from the Bush administration to fry on this “Torture” thing.

    YEEEEEEHAAAAAAAA!

  79. avatar
    NBC April 22, 2009 at 11:59 am #

    A much worthier cause indeed. We cannot let these apparent violations of national and international law remain uninvestigated. As for Orly, she has been a non-issue for quite some time but fun to report on as it exposes the lack of content of the birthers movement. You may like her Heavy…

  80. avatar
    Chris April 22, 2009 at 12:55 pm #

    Not to get all off-topic or anything, but torturing detainees does nothing to ‘keep us safe’. If anything, it leads to false and misinformation. Even John McCain admitted to giving false information under torture by the North Vietnamese. Not to mention that it becomes a great recruiting tool for future terrorists who aren’t exactly intending to ‘keep us safe’.

  81. avatar
    NBC April 22, 2009 at 1:36 pm #

    Interesting double standards here… Guess the constitution and laws only matter when they do…

  82. avatar
    Heavy April 22, 2009 at 1:57 pm #

    ATTENTION! The Constitution does NOT cover enemy combatants.

    Just thought you may want to factor that into your thinking. Now, you were saying…

  83. avatar
    NBC April 22, 2009 at 2:51 pm #

    So torturing of people who are called enemy combatants is somehow ok and legal? We shall see. So far we know that the use of torture was approved by high level officials, in violation of US law as well as international law.

  84. avatar
    kimba April 22, 2009 at 3:08 pm #

    Is this really a surprise? KSM waterboarded 183 times (!) in March 2003. I remember what was going on in March 2003: the Bush Admin trying to make the case for invading Iraq. I can just hear Cheney: “He hasn’t said Saddam was connected to 9/11? Well, waterboard him again!” 183 times, in one month, Holy F@ck. In our names? I knew Bush and Cheney were sick freaks, I am so glad this is coming out. Oh, and Justice Dept can handle Orly too. It was a McCain Admin that proposed doing only one thing at a time. Obama and Co. seem capable of much much more.

  85. avatar
    Heavy April 22, 2009 at 3:11 pm #

    Torture? Hmmm. By ALL accounts none was used. You must be misinformed.

  86. avatar
    richCares April 22, 2009 at 4:05 pm #

    As for the torture issue, during the Korean war, our guys were tortured, not for information, but to force confessions to aid in propaganda. We (US Marines) underwent training to handle torture, our trainer, said “unlike our enemies, we do not torture, we are Americans, be proud of that”. I am sure he would be in favor of some butt kicking here.

  87. avatar
    TRUTH April 27, 2009 at 7:55 pm #

    Kimba, you make a very large assumption. Very impressive of you. I bet you think Bush n Cheney were standing there pouring the water. You may as well think that, it’s no dumber than what else you said.

  88. avatar
    TRUTH April 27, 2009 at 7:57 pm #

    Here is the thing about interrogations. This should have NEVER gotten this far. I mean that we’re talking about it. There are national security matters the public should not know about. THANK YOU LIBERALS and LIBERAL MEDIA!! you’ve just weakened the country.

  89. avatar
    kimba May 11, 2009 at 2:29 pm #

    Ok, I couldn’t find my way back to your post about this Dr C, but last week you predicted that the next theory from the birthers would be that Obama was born in Canada. And sure nuff, you nailed it. So, my question is, why are the birthers cycling back to “Obama was born in Canada”? I thought Momma E’s fake Canadian BC was signed by Dudley Doright and made the birthers look like chumps.

  90. avatar
    Heavy May 11, 2009 at 3:02 pm #

    Wow, you sick SOB’s need a hobby or maybe even a job.

  91. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 11, 2009 at 3:23 pm #

    Did they really? That’s totally funny. You have a link? MY prediction was here.

    It was a guess, but the idea came from two things. First, we know that Strunk has gotten a partial reply to his FOIA with the US Department of State for passport information on Stanley Ann Obama. Some people (on the other side) almost certainly know today whether she had a passport or not. If it turns out that she didn’t have a passport in 1961, then the trip to Kenya looks pretty well sunk. But we also have reports of her appearing in Washington State not long after Obama was born. The birthers would need some foreign birth location requiring no passport, and Canada (British Columbia) is the obvious choice.

    Whenever the nObamas run into a fact they can’t answer, they make something up. I only have to figure out what they will make up.

    If the birthers really do switch from Kenya to Canada, then they will definitely look like chumps.

  92. avatar
    kimba May 11, 2009 at 3:37 pm #

    Here’s where I saw it recently, but no link to source
    http://www.therightsideoflife.com/?p=5924&cpage=2#comments comment at 12:47 May 10.

    and I thought I saw a reference to it at plainsradio, but I couldn’t find it again.

    Maybe they got it from you Doc!

  93. avatar
    kimba May 11, 2009 at 3:38 pm #

    Get back to work Slacker! How am I going to be able to afford to stay on the dole with you goofing off on a blog!

  94. avatar
    thisoldhippie May 12, 2009 at 8:09 am #

    Don’t know about the born in Canada part, but appears the plains radio crowd are still clinging to the same old same old.

    http://pub29.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=2442810129&frmid=8&msgid=1016315&cmd=show

  95. avatar
    kimba May 12, 2009 at 10:54 am #

    Wow, and it looks like they’re resigned to not being able to “take back America” and now they’d just be happy to “take back Conservative radio”. “By Gawd, if Hannity and O’Reilly won’t talk about eligibility, we’ll just just turn them off! So there!”

  96. avatar
    mimi May 14, 2009 at 6:52 pm #

    Mrs. Polly has published the latest installment of The Orliad. A masterpiece.

    http://www.rumproast.com/index.php/site/comments/the_orliad_and_the_idiocy/

    If you missed the prior installments, they are:

    The Orliad,3/23/09
    The Orliad, Book 2, 3/30/09
    The Orliad, Book 3: a net for Orly, 4/12/09
    and a companion piece:
    Teh Crazy Goes Round And Round, 3/17/09.

    You can search for them. If I include the urls, I shall end up in moderation hell. [Ze Doktor haf feexed eet.]

  97. avatar
    mimi May 27, 2009 at 9:12 pm #

    Doc,
    I forgot to drop by to tell you. WND press person asked Gibbs about Birth Certificate in Press Conference today. Politico has the clip. PJ’s has a topic. Look under miscelleous. I forget topic name. Guy is Lester something.

  98. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 27, 2009 at 9:54 pm #

    Kinsolving. I read the transcript. Thanks.

  99. avatar
    Tear Down the FED May 27, 2009 at 10:15 pm #

    Sodium Fluoride is a known carcinogen. The EPA even admits that. Sodium fluoride was first used as a sedative but when shown to cause cancer, was discontinued, until the Russians used it in the gulags and the Germans used it in the concentration camps. That’s mainline history, folks!

    You’re thinking of calcium fluoride which is nowhere near any drinking water, toothpaste, or floss.

    Keep setting yourselves up to look foolish. I love it!

  100. avatar
    Prometheus11 May 27, 2009 at 11:16 pm #

    If you know where I live why don’t you stop by sometime and we can discuss the 2nd Amendment?

  101. avatar
    NBC May 27, 2009 at 11:18 pm #

    Ah the right of the militia to be appropriately armed. I’ve heard of it. What about it.

  102. avatar
    Kevin Bellas May 27, 2009 at 11:31 pm #

    If you’re pushing anything by Alex Jones, then you really really got some big mental health problems. This is not the site for that crap.

    By the way Prometheus11 you should change your name forethought is not something you have archived yet.

  103. avatar
    9/11 Was An Inside Job May 28, 2009 at 12:24 am #

    I watch a lot of Alex Jones movies. I don’t agree with him 100%. That guy is WAY out there and plenty loud, but he does his research and he’s at least on point about 9/11

  104. avatar
    Prometheus11 May 28, 2009 at 12:27 am #

    You’d do well to avoid me, you FED. Uncle Sam taught me a thing or twelve.

  105. avatar
    Prometheus11 May 28, 2009 at 12:40 am #

    Video evidence of bombs in the buildings, numerous scientists from around the globe found thermite, and nano-thermite particles at ground zero, Larry Silverstein admitted on PBS that he pulled building 7 as a controlled demolition, molten steel smoldered until Dec. 13 2001 at GZ in upwards of 2300 degrees when jet fuel burns at 1800, passports magically surviving when the impact of the ‘airplane’ DISINTEGRATED 6 tons of steel and titanium at the Pentagon, NORAD standing down for the first time in history, Operation Amalgam Virgo, Operation Vigilant Warrior, Operation Global Guardian, HOW MUCH MORE EVIDENCE DO YOU PEOPLE NEED?

    9/11 started all of this insane middle east war!

    And all the hacks, all the disinformation, all the double speak, double think cannot put humpty dumpty together again. The gig is up, fools!

    You Head-in-the-sand-burying Obamatons aren’t fooling the American People anymore!

    LONG LIVE THE REPUBLIC!
    DEATH TO THE NEW WORLD ORDER!

  106. avatar
    Prometheus11 May 28, 2009 at 12:44 am #

    what does that even mean, liver pecked at? Is that like pecking at someone’s brain with a 12 gauge? Are you threatening me?

  107. avatar
    NBC May 28, 2009 at 12:47 am #

    You’d do well to avoid me, you FED. Uncle Sam taught me a thing or twelve.

    Too bad you must have been asleep during most of the other lessons.

    Sigh…

  108. avatar
    NBC May 28, 2009 at 12:50 am #

    Video evidence of bombs in the buildings, numerous scientists from around the globe found thermite, and nano-thermite particles at ground zero,

    Sigh… You do not seem to do much researching of the facts and allow others to manipulate you into believing something.

    Often reality is simpler that we can handle and we need to invent explanations to soothe our sensitivities and senses.

    So far you have shown little connection to reality. But it does help explain a lot.

  109. avatar
    NBC May 28, 2009 at 12:51 am #

    Do you not even know the story of prometheus my dear friend?

    He was a champion of human-kind known for his wily intelligence, who stole fire from Zeus and gave it to mortals.[2] Zeus then punished him for his crime by having him bound to a rock while a great eagle ate his liver every day only to have it grow back to be eaten again the next day. His myth has been treated by a number of ancient sources, in which Prometheus is credited with – or blamed for – playing a pivotal role in the early history of humankind.

    I apologize that I presumed your familiarity with the history of the name you so unwisely chose.
    Paranoia can be easily treated by doing some actual research.

  110. avatar
    Prometheus11 May 28, 2009 at 12:55 am #

    Oh, so Darwin was right, eh NBC? You mean the same Charles Darwin who subtitled Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection The Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life?

    Why am I not surprised you would admire a racist and eugenicist?

  111. avatar
    Prometheus11 May 28, 2009 at 1:03 am #

    NBC says:
    May 27, 2009 at 9:23 pm

    So many errors, where do I start

    1. Global warming is a well established fact
    2. Swine flue is a well established fact

    But are you not glad he did not repeal (yet) the unconstitutional acts of his predecessor until a full review has been finished?
    Reply to this Comment

    *
    Prometheus11 says:
    May 27, 2009 at 10:09 pm

    If global warming is “a well established fact”, where is scientific consensus? Fact is 1,000’s of climatologists have stated we are in a cooling period since sunspot activity has decreased. There’s a conspiracy theory for you hacks! The sun actually heats the planet!

    Oh but you guys will say I wear a tinfoil hat because I believe in the sun!!!

    And NO I’m not glad he hasn’t repealed the Patriot Act, you shill! And what’s to review, you mental giant? You admitted the Acts are UNCONSTITUTIONAL? That’s all you need to know!

    You even know the definition of Unconstitutional? Do YOU need a review of civics class?

    Pathetic! Man, the CIA needs to ramp up its blogger hiring practices.

  112. avatar
    NBC May 28, 2009 at 1:05 am #

    Why am I not surprised you would admire a racist and eugenicist?

    Seems you are ignorant as well on many issues, including Darwin’s position on race and eugenics.

    Why am I not surprised? Ignorance does run deep and has the nasty side effect of repeating itself in many new forms.

    Hint:
    Race, as used by Darwin, refers to varieties, not to human races. It simply points out that some variations that occur naturally survive in greater numbers. Origin of Species hardly refers to humans at all.

    Sigh… You are such a cute troll, and so docile in your manners, now if we could just help you understand that ignorance is not a virtue.

  113. avatar
    NBC May 28, 2009 at 1:07 am #

    Fact is 1,000’s of climatologists have stated we are in a cooling period since sunspot activity has decreased.

    You are good at making up facts, but your surely are lousy at issues of fact, science, constitutional history and so on.

    But nevertheless you excel at being a cute little troll. Yes, I know, do not feed the trolls but they are so cute.

  114. avatar
    Prometheus11 May 28, 2009 at 1:08 am #

    Bill Benson proved it, but you guys keep on paying your taxes like good little slaves…

  115. avatar
    NBC May 28, 2009 at 1:12 am #

    Bill Benson proved it, but you guys keep on paying your taxes like good little slaves…

    There is nothing wrong with paying taxes. In fact it’s beneficial to the country and the people of this country. As to what Benson did or did not ‘prove’ it seems that his proof is not taken too seriously. But then again, there are those who still believe that 9/11 was an inside job or that UFO’s are another conspiracy.
    Fine with me, give it a try, stop paying your taxes and see how well his proof serves you.

    Check out the facts on your hero

    Oops

  116. avatar
    Prometheus11 May 28, 2009 at 1:16 am #

    Watch Loose Change
    Watch 9/11 The Road to Tyranny
    Watch Fabled Enemies

    I don’t ‘seem’ to do anything. You government idiots leave a paper trail of evidence big enough to fit Jupiter through!

    Reality is simple: firefighters, policemen, rescue workers, military, all say the same thing. Bombs went off in the buildings. You guys haven’t seen the videos so it’s cake for you to sit back and scoff without seeing the proof. Stop windbagging and start viewing. Otherwise, you further prove you are paid by the Man. Or why else would you attempt to battle with me for the better part of four hours? Single? Lonely? Gay, bi, curious? NO thanks, I don’t swing that way fellas, and as NBC evidenced by his love for Darwin, THIS IS A RIGHT WING RACIST WEBSITE, and I have no time to argue with folks who don white hoods and burn crosses!

  117. avatar
    Prometheus11 May 28, 2009 at 1:28 am #

    Oh, but I guess NASA didn’t go on record and admit they falsified temperatures did they? Does NASA testimony count as facts?

    Oh I guess the FBI accidentally omitted 9/11 from Osama Bin Laden’s list of crimes. I guess it had nothing to do with director Mueller saying there was no evidence, hmm? Oh does Robert Mueller exist oh wise doctor, oh sage NBC, or is he a conspiracy theory?
    PLEASE, PLEASE let me know I am SOOOO lost without your grand advice!

    Please tell me why GWB issued W199 Eye pulling the FBI off bin Laden 6 months before 9/11 and John O’Neill resigning thereafter. Please show why the Bush White House was on Cippro 6 weeks prior to the Anthrax attacks? Please help me see that it’s a theory! Building 7 is a myth isn’t it, oh Socrates!? I imagined the BBC reporting on the collapse of WTC 7 25 minutes before it happened and I hallucinated when I saw WTC 7 in the background of BBC reporter Jayne Standley’s broadcast!
    Please, I beg of you, show the way! Which way to the Superdome, or the FEMA trailers?

  118. avatar
    NBC May 28, 2009 at 1:35 am #

    You’re so cute and harmless. It was fun toying around with you my dear friend.
    Indeed, you have shown us what you know, which is exactly what worried me initially and was only confirmed by your further claims.

    Oh, but I guess NASA didn’t go on record and admit they falsified temperatures did they? Does NASA testimony count as facts?

    Nope, they never made such a statement. And no, the case does not depend on NASA temperatures.

    Tschuss my cute little troll.

  119. avatar
    myson May 28, 2009 at 3:29 am #

    Whoa, you Americans sure do crazy !!!! I’ve never seen so much crazy even by birther’s crazy standard (if i can call it that) as i’ve seen in these last 30 comments ! delusion is definitely in the air !!

  120. avatar
    Prometheus11 May 28, 2009 at 8:53 am #

    haven’t paid taxes in 11 years…

    suck it

  121. avatar
    Prometheus11 May 28, 2009 at 8:55 am #

    Video evidence of bombs in the buildings, numerous scientists from around the globe found thermite, and nano-thermite particles at ground zero, Larry Silverstein admitted on PBS that he pulled building 7 as a controlled demolition, molten steel smoldered until Dec. 13 2001 at GZ in upwards of 2300 degrees when jet fuel burns at 1800, passports magically surviving when the impact of the airplane’ DISINTEGRATED 6 tons of steel and titanium at the Pentagon, NORAD standing down for the first time in history, Operation Amalgam Virgo, Operation Vigilant Warrior, Operation Global Guardian, HOW MUCH MORE EVIDENCE DO YOU PEOPLE NEED?

    9/11 started all of this insane middle east war!

    And all the hacks, all the disinformation, all the double speak, double think cannot put humpty dumpty together again. The gig is up, fools!

    You Head-in-the-sand-burying Obamatons aren’t fooling the American People anymore!

    LONG LIVE THE REPUBLIC!
    DEATH TO THE NEW WORLD ORDER!

  122. avatar
    Prometheus11 May 28, 2009 at 8:57 am #

    Reality is simple: firefighters, policemen, rescue workers, military, all say the same thing. Bombs went off in the buildings. You guys haven’t seen the videos so it’s cake for you to sit back and scoff without seeing the proof. Stop windbagging and start viewing. Otherwise, you further prove you are paid by the Man. Or why else would you attempt to battle with me for the better part of four hours? Single? Lonely? Gay, bi, curious? NO thanks, I don’t swing that way fellas, and as NBC evidenced by his love for Darwin, THIS IS A RIGHT WING RACIST WEBSITE, and I have no time to argue with folks who don white hoods and burn crosses!

  123. avatar
    Prometheus11 May 28, 2009 at 9:03 am #

    You are the troll
    The gov’t paid lackey who attempts to dissuade people with hackery and unsubstantiated claims. Each time the gatekeeperson this site are faced with truth (like how Darwin is a KNOWN eugenicist and racist) and they try to spin it: No, when Darwin said he favours races, he’s not talking about THAT kind of race, he’s only talking about the little birdies in the Galapagos!

    Sigh…

    you’re only fooling children and Faux News enthusiasts.

    Stop your racism!

  124. avatar
    Prometheus11 May 28, 2009 at 9:07 am #

    You provide no facts, just conjecture…
    You don’t even know who Bill Benson is
    You’ve never read the reports from all 48 of the states that existed when the Income Tax came to be!

    This site is a hack job to prevent independent research and it’s run by RACISTS!

    Go worship Darwin

    pathetic really…

  125. avatar
    Prometheus11 May 28, 2009 at 9:19 am #

    You say delusional I say denial.

    Let me guess. All you pro-Socialist left wing nut Demogogues blog here out of a shear sense of ‘civic duty’, right?

    I bet you ‘scholars’ think George Washington was actually our 1st President!
    I bet you ‘intellectuals’ think Saetoro is the 1st black President?!

    *note: Saetoro is half Caucasian, and his father is 90% ARABIC*

  126. avatar
    Prometheus11 May 28, 2009 at 9:24 am #

    how is an enemy combatant not a person?
    The Constitution covers persons.

    Speaking of that great document, can anyone here show me where in the Constitution it claims our gov’t is a Democracy?

    Can anyone show me in the IRS code where the term “income” is defined, citing specific page numbers paragraph, etc?

  127. avatar
    Prometheus11 May 28, 2009 at 9:31 am #

    Video evidence of bombs in the buildings, numerous scientists from around the globe found thermite, and nano-thermite particles at ground zero, Larry Silverstein admitted on PBS that he pulled building 7 as a controlled demolition, molten steel smoldered until Dec. 13 2001 at GZ in upwards of 2300 degrees when jet fuel burns at 1800, passports magically surviving when the impact of the airplane’ DISINTEGRATED 6 tons of steel and titanium at the Pentagon, NORAD standing down for the first time in history, Operation Amalgam Virgo, Operation Vigilant Warrior, Operation Global Guardian, HOW MUCH MORE EVIDENCE DO YOU PEOPLE NEED?

    9/11 started all of this insane middle east war!

    And all the hacks, all the disinformation, all the double speak, double think cannot put humpty dumpty together again. The gig is up, fools!

    You Head-in-the-sand-burying Obamatons aren’t fooling the American People anymore!

    LONG LIVE THE REPUBLIC!
    DEATH TO THE NEW WORLD ORDER!

  128. avatar
    Prometheus11 May 28, 2009 at 10:05 am #

    NORAD doc?
    Brzezinski?
    Are you going to say we didn’t outfit arm and train bin Laden in the 80’s?

    So I guess these rag tag Afghans beat the giant Soviet Beast with rocks, AK’s and shouts of Allah akhbar?

  129. avatar
    NBC May 28, 2009 at 10:40 am #

    HOW MUCH MORE EVIDENCE DO YOU PEOPLE NEED

    You call that ‘evidence’ or empty speculation?

    Geez…

  130. avatar
    NBC May 28, 2009 at 10:45 am #

    ou provide no facts, just conjecture…
    You don’t even know who Bill Benson is
    You’ve never read the reports from all 48 of the states that existed when the Income Tax came to be!

    This site is a hack job to prevent independent research and it’s run by RACISTS!

    Go worship Darwin

    pathetic really…

    I know that Bill Benson and others have tried and failed to further the arguments. In fact, the site often presents links to support the claims. But I believe that with independent research you mean that you should be spoonfed?
    As to being racist, you must be kidding.

    As to Darwin, it seems that you were quite ignorant about the meaning of races in his title. I understand, it takes time and effort to educate yourself on these matters, you have chosen to just repeat factoids as if they were fact and have become an unwitting tool of those interested in spreading nonsensical information.

    I thought you had left? Was being wrong too hard for your ego to deal with?

  131. avatar
    NBC May 28, 2009 at 10:48 am #

    , I don’t swing that way fellas, and as NBC evidenced by his love for Darwin, THIS IS A RIGHT WING RACIST WEBSITE, and I have no time to argue with folks who don white hoods and burn crosses!

    Your ignorance of Darwin is duly noted.

    As to your ignorance, you cannot both call this site socialist and right wing racist. Surely even you must recognize the problems with such a position?

    Are you still upset that I exposed your ignorance in many areas such as the meaning of the term “favorable races” in Darwin’s book or Benson’s ‘proof’?

    I thought you appreciated this additional knowledge, or do you only appreciate knowledge that supports your views?

  132. avatar
    James May 28, 2009 at 11:03 am #

    Elect John Smith as POTUS, son of Gitmo Terririst #25.

  133. avatar
    NBC May 28, 2009 at 11:04 am #

    o, when Darwin said he favours races, he’s not talking about THAT kind of race, he’s only talking about the little birdies in the Galapagos!

    Seems you favor ignorance over understanding. That’s fine with me but in order to understand Darwin, it presumes you have read and understand his work and arguments.
    For his time, Darwin was actually quite enlightened. However, the use of the term “favored races” does not refer to what you believe it to be.

    Ignorance and a little bit of information seems to be sufficient for you to make ill informed comments.
    Are you such a puppet in the hands of those who promote ignorance that you have become a mouth piece for ignorance?

    Now that’s the real conspiracy… You have allowed yourself to become an unwitting toy in the hands of those who believe that ignorance is sufficient.

    Darwin may have had his problems, but your attempt to impugn him is clearly ridiculous and ill informed.

    As to eugenics, Darwin never spoke out in favor of eugenics, although he did hint at the concept of “positive eugenics” which, unlike its counterpart, does not favor forceful acts. Instead, it is based on having people from a ‘better gene pool’ mate with others from a similarly strong gene pool.

    In fact, Darwin spoke out against Dalton, a well known eugenicist:

    you have made a convert of an opponent in one sense, for I have always maintained that, excepting fools, men did not differ much in intellect, only in zeal and hard work; and I still think [this] is an eminently important difference.” (See Desmond and Moore’s biography of Darwin, p. 572)

    The closest Darwin may have come to Eugenics is to point out that from a ‘theoretical’ perspective it may have benefits but that from a moral perspective it fails

    In The Descent of Man Darwin noted that aiding the weak to survive and have families could lose the benefits of natural selection, but cautioned that withholding such aid would endanger the instinct of sympathy, “the noblest part of our nature”, and factors such as education could be more important. When Galton suggested that publishing research could encourage intermarriage within a “caste” of “those who are naturally gifted”, Darwin foresaw practical difficulties, and thought it “the sole feasible, yet I fear utopian, plan of procedure in improving the human race”, preferring to simply publicise the importance of inheritance and leave decisions to individuals.[

    From Descent of Man

    The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, even at the urging of hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature. The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation, for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with an overwhelming present evil.

    You’re welcome

  134. avatar
    NBC May 28, 2009 at 11:05 am #

    The gov’t paid lackey who attempts to dissuade people with hackery and unsubstantiated claims

    Isn’t that what you are doing here?

  135. avatar
    NBC May 28, 2009 at 11:08 am #

    You’re funny. Yes, people in high security prisons like Supermax get women pregnant all the time.
    Is that truly one of your fears?

    Or are you just trolling

  136. avatar
    NBC May 28, 2009 at 11:12 am #

    Gitmo is not US soil, or is the Green zone and Abu Graib as well a breeding ground of US Citizens?

    You’re really getting desperate my friend.

    Nothing of course undermines the fact that Obama was born on US soil and thus per Constitution, a natural born citizen. If you do not like the Constitution, there are well established ways to have it amended.

    Be my guest, but do not expect others to follow you in your ignorance and fear.

  137. avatar
    myson May 28, 2009 at 1:50 pm #

    Pro , even by your own logic – 50% Caucasian + 90 Arabic- your maths doesn’t add up !!
    Just in case people have deceived you enough, the blacks in sub-Saharan are not Arabic

  138. avatar
    Expelliarmus May 28, 2009 at 10:29 pm #

    This says it all:

    Update: May 28: Kreep responded simply: “It’s all a hoax.”

  139. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 28, 2009 at 11:37 pm #

    Which is odd since Kreep was the one trying to get Obama’s records from Occidental College in the Keyes v Bowen lawsuit.

  140. avatar
    Expelliarmus May 29, 2009 at 12:54 am #

    Not at all odd. Just a case of a lawyer knowing what happened in the case he handled, and also having the courtesy to respond to a Factcheck email. Kreep has first hand knowledge of the fact that the Occidental College transcript was NOT release — as far as I know, he was actually in court the day the judge ruled on the motion to quash the subpoena.

  141. avatar
    Ian Gould May 29, 2009 at 3:55 am #

    Adolf Hitler’s nephew William Hitler campaigned against his uncle before World War II served in the US navy during the war.

    I wonder how Prometheus would feel about one of his children running for President.

  142. avatar
    Ian Gould May 29, 2009 at 4:11 am #

    Personally I’m waiting for a wingnut to claim that only the child of two NATURAL BORN citizens can be a Natural Born Citizen.

    That way they can argue for the exclusion of anyone whose ancestors arrived after the Revolution or any descendant of “persons held in servitude”.

  143. avatar
    Gordon May 29, 2009 at 10:49 am #

    Conservative Fox News contributor Michelle Malkin startred out questioning Obama’s citizenship. After being hit with the irrefutable truth (you listening Heavy) she has done a 180. This is from her blog

    “I believe Trig was born to Sarah Palin. I believe Barack Obama was born in Hawaii on U.S. soil. I believe fire can melt steel and that bin Laden’s jihadi crew – not Bush and Cheney – perpetrated mass murder on 9/11. What kind of kooky conspiracist does that make me?”

    Michelle Malkin

    From MichelleMalkin.com Dec 5, 2008 “Truthers to the Left of Me, Truthers to the Right of Me”.

  144. avatar
    kimba May 29, 2009 at 3:31 pm #

    OK, I’m taking it right to the off-topic page, but I just have to say I really enjoy seeing Pres Obama out buying burgers and paying with real money he takes out of his pocket. I don’t know why I find that so normal and refreshing, but I do and loved the slide show over at HuffPo of pictures,the last being Obama trudging up the hill to the Oval Office with his sacks of burgers for the staff.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/29/obama-five-guys-visit-ord_n_209155.html

    So while the Right wing cabal competes with each other to see who can go farthest into the gutter with their insults of Ms Satamayor, the President goes out and buys burgers for the staff. He’s a, he’s a Damn socialist I tells you!

  145. avatar
    kimba May 31, 2009 at 10:21 am #

    Have you all seen the portrait photo of Obama’s grandfather Stanley Dunham at huffpo’s home page ( scroll wayyy down)? I’d never seen a picture of him at a younger age and the resemblance is striking, the chin, the face shape, the mouth, eyebrows. It will be fun to watch this week if the right wing finds some way to embarrass themselves some more and fling poo on Obama’s attendance at the D-Day memorial. Will they stoop so low as to try to diminish anything about Stanley Dunham? Tell me again – what’s not all-American about being mostly raised by two Kansans, one who’s a WWII D -day hero?

  146. avatar
    Expelliarmus May 31, 2009 at 5:10 pm #

    I also was struck by the close resemblance. I’ve noticed it before in other photos — but it really is striking.

  147. avatar
    mimi June 2, 2009 at 8:03 pm #

    Doc,

    If you’re around, R/C is going to do a radio thingy tonite. Would love it if you could call in.

    See link at PJ’s
    Obama Elig./Misc/Radio Tonight.

    Link to show is there. As well as where we are in chat.

    Hope you can join us.

  148. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 3, 2009 at 6:53 am #

    That was fun. Sorry I didn’t get your message until it was almost over.

  149. avatar
    Ian Gould June 3, 2009 at 9:22 am #

    Well yeah but some day the parole board is going to change it’s mind or the state mental health facility will decide you’re ready to be mainstreamed.

  150. avatar
    kimba June 3, 2009 at 9:38 am #

    Ed Hale says if he hasn’t raised $5000 toward his defense fund by 10PM, he is shutting down Plains Radio and raising the money himself. So if you want Plains Radio, cough up $5000 by 10PM tonight. A pretty blatant shakedown. Seems to me like $5000 wouldn’t even cover a retainer. I’m betting the morons over there come through for him. He never explained where Steve Pidgeon spent $10,000.

  151. avatar
    mimi June 6, 2009 at 10:52 am #

    Morning, Doc. Saw this over at P.J.’s.

    “[…]Answer: No, you can’t obtain a “certificate of live birth” anymore.

    The state Department of Health no longer issues copies of paper birth certificates as was done in the past, said spokeswoman Janice Okubo.

    The department only issues “certifications” of live births, and that is the “official birth certificate” issued by the state of Hawaii, she said.

    And, it’s only available in electronic form.

    Okubo explained that the Health Department went paperless in 2001.[…]

    More…here:
    http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html

  152. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 6, 2009 at 1:03 pm #

    Why thank you ! That’s worth a feature article.

  153. avatar
    mimi June 7, 2009 at 12:42 am #

    Hi Doc,

    I found the crazy “presentment” that the “American Grand Jury” is using. I just posted at P.J.’s too.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/15752626/American-Grand-Jury-16May09-Presentments

  154. avatar
    mimi June 15, 2009 at 9:55 am #

    Morning Doc,
    Tolland found a Thesis that might be of interest. I don’t know if it will be.
    http://www.politijab.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=254&start=675#p38660

  155. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 15, 2009 at 10:25 am #

    It was interesting reading. Not much new there, except the emphasis on Blackstone, who we know follows English common law which says that the natural born subjects are those born in the King’s domain. The idea that the framers read many philosophers on the principles of government is something I’ve seen other places.

    For de Vattel to prevail the founders would have had to chuck all existing jurisprudence, common law, colonial legislation and popular ideas for some Swiss dude. There is not a shred of evidence that they did this. One should keep in mind that the phrase “natural born citizen” was NOT in Franklin’s copy of the Law of Nations. It was added by a later translator.

  156. avatar
    mimi June 17, 2009 at 2:39 pm #

    Afternoon, Doc. Seems the DHHL has fixed their website to reflect long form not needed.

    See Sequoia’s post under new topic:

    Miscellaneous: Birthers can no longer use the DHHL to lie

  157. avatar
    mimi June 19, 2009 at 5:17 am #

    Hi Doc,

    I guess you saw the OC article is up. LOL!!!
    http://www.ocweekly.com/2009-06-18/news/orly-taitz/1

    As well as a supplemental to the article:
    http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/politics/super-fun-cover-story-suppleme/

  158. avatar
    mimi June 19, 2009 at 5:18 am #

    Hey Doc,
    This article is about that WND poll.

    http://barackryphal.blogspot.com/2009/06/half-of-americans-troubled-not-so-much.html

  159. avatar
    SvenMagnussen June 19, 2009 at 8:29 am #

    Michelle is right. Barack is stinky.

    Flies love stink.

  160. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 19, 2009 at 4:25 pm #

    Great article. Thanks.

  161. avatar
    mimi June 23, 2009 at 12:25 am #

    Tes posted this link to Schneller ruling today.
    http://www.supremecourtus.gov/orders/courtorders/062209zor.pdf

    08-9797
    SCHNELLER, JAMES D. V. CORTES, SEC. OF PA, ET AL.
    The motions of petitioners for leave to proceed in forma pauperis are denied, and the petitions for writs of certiorari are dismissed. See Rule 39.8.

    As the petitioners have repeatedly abused this Court’s process, the Clerk is directed not to accept any further petitions in noncriminal matters from petitioners unless the docketing fees required by Rule 38(a) are paid and the petitions are submitted in compliance with Rule 33.1. See Martin v. District of Columbia Court of Appeals, 506 U.S. 1 (1992) (per curiam).
    Justice Stevens dissents. See id., at 4, and cases cited therein.

  162. avatar
    mimi July 1, 2009 at 10:34 pm #

    The linked article in this post has something you might be able to use, Doc. Have a great evening.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/jul/01/obamas-birth-certificate-final-chapter-time-we-mea/

  163. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 1, 2009 at 11:45 pm #

    Absolutely, mimi. Thanks a bunch.

  164. avatar
    TRUTH July 4, 2009 at 1:40 am #

    http://infowars-shop.stores.yahoo.net/obdedvd.html

    For when Blockbuster is closed or the line at RedBox just was to long to wait. Here is some quality viewing, that’s what I read at least. I’ve not received my copy yet. But like waiting for the next Terminator, you just know it’ll be good, that’s my feeling on this.

    Get TWO and give one to a Friend.

  165. avatar
    TRUTH July 4, 2009 at 5:55 pm #

    OR, if you have high speed connection you can watch it online.

  166. avatar
    mimi July 10, 2009 at 9:26 pm #

    I guess you heard Orly found a military guy. Filed in Georgia. pdf’s & such at PJ’s.

  167. avatar
    TRUTH July 12, 2009 at 3:30 pm #

    Good informative video.

    btw…the recent poll is somewhat misrepresenting. Using the word “Higher” as if either Obamas or Frankens will be high. But, one will be higher than the other without a doubt, so in that respect it’s legit. As is this video.

  168. avatar
    thisoldhippie July 16, 2009 at 8:50 pm #

    Another example of the closed mindedness and refusal to listen to engage in debate from the birthers. A sure sign of being scared:

    Ed Hale

    Jul 10, 2009 – 3:31PM OBOTs

    OBOTs: all your post in this general forum will be removed asap – if you want to post go over to the Obama forum and post there. SC and Ken are a bit more tolerate than I am. No OBOTs post in this forum will be allowed to stand
    State: Texas

  169. avatar
    TRUTH July 20, 2009 at 9:01 pm #

    Fred and Betsy discuss the Health Care Reform Bill. And in keeping with the “Conspiracy” theory, I’ll make the statement, however incorrect, that the Health Care Bill will be a great thing for America. Actually that’s not a theory, that’s just stupid. ..anyways..

    http://fredthompsonshow.com/pg/jsp/charts/streamingAudioMaster.jsp?dispid=320&headerDest=/pg/jsp/media/interviewhighlightswelcome.jsp

    So the Elderly are donating $500 billion towards the bill in cuts on themselves, and members of Congress will not be required to be on this bill, but instead still milk tax money for a better plan to pay for their plan. Maybe the better conspiracy is to think Obama means well for Americans…hahaha..Yeah RIGHT!

  170. avatar
    TRUTH July 20, 2009 at 9:03 pm #

    You have to Click on BETSY, the Fifth Interview down.

  171. avatar
    kimba July 21, 2009 at 8:28 pm #

    Birtherdom is getting its 15 minutes or it’s a slow newsday. Birther segments today on CNN with Rick Sanchez, MSNBC Hardball with Chris Mathews, and coming up this hour on Keith Olberman. Note to birthers: the reports don’t make you look good.

  172. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 21, 2009 at 10:11 pm #

    Well, if I’ve gotten 12,000 comments on this backwater blog, you can imagine the blog posts and emails that the likes of CNN and Fox news get. They’re probably tired of it.

  173. avatar
    Rita July 21, 2009 at 10:21 pm #

    Heavy: ATTENTION! Habeas corpus does apply to enemy combatants (check out Boumidiene v. Bush), and there are other parts of the Constitution that apply to non-citizens as well as citizens

  174. avatar
    2112 July 23, 2009 at 2:20 pm #

    Note how NBC cannot logically dispute my arguments against Obama care. Please give me undisputed facts that show his plan will not cause deficits for this country?

    Health care IS available for all US citizens and wrongly for the illegal ones as well. Anyone can purchase health care, it’s a choice and there are plenty who choose not too.

    My intent was not to turn the eligibility thing into his government theft healthcare plan. I only ref. it because of his complete lies concerning the facts of his HC plan only further my doubt quoting Obama on “transparency” about where he was actually born. And to repeat myself for a third time I did say he may very well be a US born citizen.

  175. avatar
    NBC July 23, 2009 at 2:32 pm #

    2112: Note how NBC cannot logically dispute my arguments against Obama care. Please give me undisputed facts that show his plan will not cause deficits for this country?

    So we agree that you were wrong about healthcare under Obama being run by the government and want to discuss now the suggestion that the program may not be budget neutral.
    As I have pointed out, this is a promise, a pledge and it is up to those who argue that the program does, to show that there will be an effect on the deficit.

    2112: Health care IS available for all US citizens and wrongly for the illegal ones as well. Anyone can purchase health care, it’s a choice and there are plenty who choose not too.

    To call the inability to buy insurance a choice is somewhat illogical if not demeaning. That’s like saying ‘bread is available for anyone’ thus it is a choice that millions of children go to bed without a meal….

    JTX: And to repeat myself for a third time I did say he may very well be a US born citizen

    Those are “Chicken words”, as Jon Stewart so aptly observed.

  176. avatar
    TRUTH July 25, 2009 at 4:31 pm #

    Well Kimba, I think you’re missing the bigger point here. If your Listening to Keith Olberman, YOU don’t look good. He’s such a selfish conceited clown, he would find something bad about the Pope and Jesus having a conversation as long as he thought it makes him appear Funny and Cooool. Note to Birthers: Congrats for not giving a damn what idiot Olberman says.

  177. avatar
    TRUTH July 25, 2009 at 4:47 pm #

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvYTNYPDmgQ

    If you haven’t gotten the chance to hear the Wonderful Orator, Legitimate Birth Certificate holding, illustrious President fuel the fire about Racism like some suburb town councilman of Philadelphia, hears your chance.

    Of ALL the things he could have said, during a 55 minute talk on Health Care, he announces America still has race issues and racial profiling. TRUE or NOT, the damn President of the UNITED STATES words move people. If he says SNickers are his favorite candy bar, sales will sky rocket. All he did was Worsen racial problems….FOOL

    Sure he was ASKED the question, it coming up wasn’t his fault. And he Started to answer it correctly saying he didn’t have all the facts….but THEN he KEPT ON TALKING. WOW, how ignorant can he be? Not to mention the putting down of a policeman/police force without all the facts. He may have a pretty birth certificate, but it doesn’t improve his common sense one lick.

  178. avatar
    nbc July 25, 2009 at 5:00 pm #

    His common sense caused him to revisit his comments and call the officer in question on the phone.
    Everyone makes mistakes, this President however seems to be able to gracefully admits to them.
    What a refreshening difference that makes.

  179. avatar
    TRUTH July 26, 2009 at 12:59 pm #

    LMAO…ReVisit? The next day he denied saying anything wrong, accusing the Media of blowing it up, so GRACEFULLY ADMIT? LOL He’s a Finger pointing Liberal..and this time not just FOX but the Same media that “Made Him” called him out. Not until two days after did he start to back pedal. But we all know what happens when you back pedal a 10 speed going down hill, it still goes forward, as will this whining about racial profiling he “stupidly” brought up.

    A refreshing difference? HA! He’s like Howdy Doody replacing Jay Leno. And he laughs making comments like “I’ll invite Mr Gates and Officer Crowley to the White House for a beer..he.he.he” His Out, to make jokes when he screws up…Yeah, REAL Refreshing. Just continue making excuses for him, THAT will keep you busy the next 3 years.

  180. avatar
    TRUTH July 27, 2009 at 10:14 pm #

    http://www.pjtv.com/video/Afterburner_with_Bill_Whittle/___The_Media%2C_The_Left_and_GOP_Elitists_vs_Sarah_Palin%3A_A_Lesson_on_How_to_Destroy_a_Leader/2235/;jsessionid=abcn0C7DzLqh_fNtBh-ks

    Oh YEAH, here’s a great video clip that will make you PROUD of your Party. It takes a minute to get going, after the mini-advertisement of course.

  181. avatar
    mimi July 27, 2009 at 10:18 pm #

    Hello, Doc. More today from Fukino:

    “I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawai’i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai’i State Department of Health verifying Barrack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai’i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago….”

    Can’t get more specific than that.

    http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20090727/BREAKING01/90727082/Obama+Hawaii+born++insist+Isle+officials

  182. avatar
    kimba July 29, 2009 at 11:48 am #

    Beckwith is throwing in the towel?

    At Obama File today:
    “There will be no new posts – I’m done.”
    Interesting.

    http://theobamafile.com/ObamaLatest.htm

  183. avatar
    kimba July 30, 2009 at 6:07 pm #

    RE: the 2 Ga officers suspended for running a background check on Pres Obama:
    As soon as the National Crime Information Center got the request, they contacted the Secret Service who contacted the DeKalb county police. Busted by the Secret Service!
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090730/ap_on_re_us/us_background_check_obama

    And the birthers are already telling them “we’ll support you. These officers have standing.” Huh?
    http://dekalbofficersspeak.blogspot.com/2009/07/officers-run-background-check-on-obama.html Scroll down to comments.

  184. avatar
    Bob July 30, 2009 at 6:14 pm #

    Someone else supports these officers…

    …wait for it…:

    Taitz (“Why is Obama nazi regime punishing the officers?”).

  185. avatar
    Bob July 30, 2009 at 6:16 pm #

    “But, I’ve had a PayPal “Contribute” button on my site for over a year. Every day, I get 200 to 300 emails. 50 Of them from folks that tell me I’m a patriot, or they’re praying for me, or the site is invaluable, blah, blah, blah. None of those emailers ever clicked the PayPal button.

    I’ve been reading those emails for months, and instead of making me feel good, they disappointed me. I spend 8 to 10 hours a day at this — 7 days a week, and with the exception of a local guy who sent me two $100 hits a year ago, I have received from my loyal readership $40 in contributions in the last 16 months — while my bandwidth steadily increased.

    Right now, my email box is full of emails telling me how valuable the site is, and please don’t take it down — oh yeah, and I’m a patriot. Not one of those emailers has ever sent me 5 bucks. I’m a strong believer in non-verbal communication. Flattery doesn’t pay the bills.”

  186. avatar
    kimba July 30, 2009 at 6:52 pm #

    And this!
    “I realize I sound bitchy, but I’m discouraged — yeah, and angry. You want me to fight the fight, but you don’t want to give me any bullets.”

    He sounds like every person trying to advance a cause. Most people are not going to get out of the easy chair to make calls, send emails, knock on doors for anything but the cause of their lifetime. It think it’s why Obama won by such a wide margin. Some time at the beach will do him good. It’ll be here when summer’s over.

  187. avatar
    kimba July 30, 2009 at 6:54 pm #

    I can guarantee you if the police just out of the blue ran one of her kids for wants she would go ballistic and accuse them of SS tactics.

  188. avatar
    kimba August 1, 2009 at 10:43 am #

    If you wondered where Palin has been all week, word out of Alaska is she and Todd are splitting up, and she has bought property in Montana. Gryphen at the Immoral Minority says it’s not a rumor, plus other tempting Palin family tidbits coming to the news next week and the Oct Vanity Fair he says…
    http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/

    I know, it’s not nice to enjoy watching a car wreck…..

  189. avatar
    TRUTH August 13, 2009 at 9:52 am #

    http://patriotupdate.com/stories/read/731/Obama-Lies-on-Single-Payer-Disses-Post-Office

    Is he a LIAR, or just FORGETFUL?
    Little of both, but more because he says what he thinks is important at the moment and what he believes his voters want to hear. He may be smart, but he isn’t very bright.

  190. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 13, 2009 at 11:11 am #

    Would you like contact information to sign up as a volunteer for the Republican party?

  191. avatar
    TRUTH August 13, 2009 at 12:04 pm #

    “ANOTHER misquote by Mr. Obama?”

    AARP to Obama: No Health Plan Endorsement Yet

    Tuesday, August 11, 2009 6:55 PM

    Article Font Size

    A group usually seen as one of Barack Obama’s allies in the health care debate — AARP — says the president went too far Tuesday when he said the seniors lobby had endorsed the legislation pending in Congress.

    AARP is sensitive to the issue because polls show that Medicare beneficiaries are worried their healthcare program will be cut to subsidize coverage for the uninsured.

    At the town hall in Portsmouth, N.H., Obama said, “We have the AARP onboard because they know this is a good deal for our seniors.” He added, “AARP would not be endorsing a bill if it was undermining Medicare.”

    But Tom Nelson, AARP’s chief operating officer, said, “Indications that we have endorsed any of the major healthcare reform bills currently under consideration in Congress are inaccurate.”

    Like Obama, AARP wants action this year to cover the uninsured and restrain healthcare costs, but the organization has refrained from endorsing legislation. Nelson said AARP would not endorse a bill that reduces Medicare benefits.

    A spokesman said the Medicare cuts that have been proposed so far would not affect benefits.

    2009 Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

  192. avatar
    TRUTH August 13, 2009 at 12:08 pm #

    Thanks but I’m Fine. I’m not so much Pro-Republican, just Anti-Making Things Worse. And I appreciate Honesty, something Mr. Obama seems confused with.

    This IS Off-Topic section isn’t it? Sorry I’m not your usual conspiracy chaser.

  193. avatar
    TRUTH August 13, 2009 at 4:13 pm #

    LMAO!!! WOW!! Maybe I should start “Palin Conspiracy Theories. Org” and track all the kook leftist comments. It would be Full-Time for one thing. And who’s Gryphen now? The Alaskan Know-it-all that penpals with Sarah?
    Post some more funny page stuff kimba. LOL

  194. avatar
    SFJeff August 13, 2009 at 4:48 pm #

    Personally I think as a politician, President Obama is about on par in Truthiness as any of them.

    So I go to Politifact to see what they think-
    So was Obama incorrect to say the AARP had endorsed the bill?

    “The July 14 statement sure sounds to us like an endorsement, even if it didn’t specifically contain that word. But in Washington, the word “endorse” means you have put the weight of your name behind an official stamp of approval for a bill, candidate or policy.

    And the fact is, AARP has not formally endorsed any specific bill. It strongly supports some aspects of the bills. But that’s not a formal endorsement. And in fact, Obama was present two weeks ago when AARP’s CEO said the group “has not endorsed any particular bill.” So we rate Obama’s statement Barely True.”

    “And I appreciate Honesty, something Mr. Obama seems confused with.”

    So you must be outraged by Sarah Palin’s comments about healthcare: “in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s ‘death panel'”

  195. avatar
    TRUTH August 13, 2009 at 4:54 pm #

    thats AWESOME… Justification to why it’s Ok to LIE. Because OTHER People Lie, other politicians, so what’s the big deal. LOL! Classic.

    At least you admit he’s a LIAR.

    And what was dishonest about what Palin said? For one, let me break that down for you slick. What she said was “her opinion” of what she believes the health care system will be like. That DOES NOT make her a Liar. Comprenda’ da’ English?

  196. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 13, 2009 at 9:03 pm #

    For those who claim that FactCheck.org is in Obama’s pocket, I offer this article:

    Obama Wrong on AARP Endorsement.

    AARP, while in support of overhauling the health care system, hasn’t endorsed any bill. AARP Chief Operating Officer Tom Nelson issued a statement, saying: “While the President was correct that AARP will not endorse a health care reform bill that would reduce Medicare benefits, indications that we have endorsed any of the major health care reform bills currently under consideration in Congress are inaccurate.”

  197. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 13, 2009 at 9:08 pm #

    Hey, grab the domain before it’s gone. You could gain a fun and rewarding hobby.

    My theory is that Sarah Palin is really the Argentine woman that Mark Sanford was shacking up with. Think about it.

  198. avatar
    Bob August 13, 2009 at 9:14 pm #

    For those who claim that FactCheck.org is in Obama’s pocket, I offer this article

    That’s the conspiracy, see? It pretends to be “against” Obama, but is really hiding THE TRUTH from We The People.

  199. avatar
    TRUTH August 13, 2009 at 10:25 pm #

    I’m 50/50 with that idea, but I’ll lay my paycheck that in less than two sentences you can convince Kimba, Bob, and richcares it’s true.

  200. avatar
    TRUTH August 13, 2009 at 10:28 pm #

    I respect what your saying, but honestly. That article was all over the news. If FactCheck.org did not print it that way they may as well shoot themselves in the head. It proves nothing towards Being or Not-Being on Obama’s side. My money is on the CEO of FactCheck voting Obama and chewing all his fingernails off when he HAD to print that AARP article, just hating himself for doing it.

  201. avatar
    Bob August 14, 2009 at 12:01 am #

    Would love to see actually put your money where your mouth is.

  202. avatar
    Lecaro August 15, 2009 at 3:46 am #

    Homosexuals do follow natural law. In almost every species of mammal the males will engage in sexual enounters with other males of the same species, the same with females.

    As far as reproduction goes, I know many lesbians with babies and many gay men who slept with women resulting in a child.

    As for reproduction, who says we have to do it the old fashion way. With DNA, Gene Technology, artifical insemination, and the many other types of medical procedures for reproduction, the heterosexuals will actually be the ones with less evolved offspring. Thus resulting in inferior DNA which will eventually be weeded out for extinction.

  203. avatar
    thisoldhippie August 15, 2009 at 11:24 am #

    I agree with you, Lecaro. Homosexuality can be found throughout the animal kingdom and contrary to what I was taught years ago, humans are not the only mammals to engage in sexual relations just for the pleasure of it.

  204. avatar
    mimi August 24, 2009 at 6:51 am #

    Morning Doc.

    I saw you were at PJ’s, so I guess you saw Loren’s latest post directing you to his blog.

    World War I and Natural Born Citizens

    http://barackryphal.blogspot.com/2009/08/world-war-i-and-natural-born-citizens.html

    Maybe you could get him a couple of folks per his request. He’s looking for people who had “ancestors who immigrated around 1900 and had a son soon thereafter, a son who would’ve been draft age in 1917”.

  205. avatar
    mimi August 29, 2009 at 12:48 am #

    New case, Doc. It’s a doozy.

    http://www.politijab.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=62378#p62378

    When will they understand?

  206. avatar
    Rita September 2, 2009 at 11:12 am #

    Don’t know if this would necessarily be media, but now the right-wing is trying to boycott/organize against WND because it is such an embarrassment to them:
    http://www.thenextright.com/jon-henke/organizing-against-worldnetdaily

  207. avatar
    TRUTH September 3, 2009 at 7:36 pm #

    I’ve just been thinking today, I’m SURE glad Obama is legally qualified, as in he’s a NBC and of course got a good B.C., because as screwed up of a job he is doing currently, it sends shivers down my spine to think how bad he’d be doing unqualified, not to mention if the entire country knew he wasn’t what would be going on.

    Required Reading in schools of Books about Obama. It can NOT get more pathetic than this. I’m beginning to think reincarnation is possible, Adolf did die in 45.

    http://www.puma08.com/2009/09/02/sept-8th-here-are-two-of-the-books-on-obama-your-kids-are-expected-to-read/

    Then we have your friendly Czar VAN JONES. hahahaahaa. sorry, I crack up thinking of this guy. Stands at a podium calling Republicans a++holes. This coming from a 9-1-1 Truther, who backed looking into the Bush administration being behind the Twin Tower attack. LMAO!! GREAT party Representation. More reason to be Proud of being a Democrat.

  208. avatar
    Greg September 3, 2009 at 7:59 pm #

    Yeah, he might even screw up the country as bad as Natural Born Citizen George W. Bush!

  209. avatar
    nbc September 3, 2009 at 8:05 pm #

    Of course, this is another lie by Malkin.

  210. avatar
    Greg September 3, 2009 at 8:16 pm #

    If anyone’s in Boston on September 14, there’s a lecture on the Great Boston Molasses Flood at the Social Law Library at the Supreme Judicial Court.

    http://www.sociallaw.com/pdf/puleo.pdf

    “Shortly after noon on January 15, 1919, a 50-foot-tall steel tank filled with 2.3 million gallons of molasses collapsed on Boston’s waterfront, disgorging its contents in a 15-foot-high wave of molasses that traveled at 35 miles per hour. The Great Boston Molasses Flood claimed the lives of 21 people and caused widespread destruction.” The disaster occurred at the United States Industrial Alcohol (USIA) company’s molasses storage tank in Boston’s North End. Victims and their families brought a large class-action lawsuit, one of the first in Massachusetts, against USIA, in a civil case that carried broad and far-reaching implications.

  211. avatar
    TRUTH September 3, 2009 at 9:33 pm #

    OF course it was, of course, no doubt, HAD to be. my ears were lying to me when I heard the words coming from his mouth.

  212. avatar
    AXJ September 4, 2009 at 2:57 am #

    His SS# on loan docs…very revealing…

  213. avatar
    AXJ September 4, 2009 at 3:02 am #

    You don’t have to be a genius to see that OBAMA and his supposed mother Stanley Ann Dunham have no physical similarity, and I am not referring to the skin color. All the pics of them are photoshopped. Why? Was she really a CIA agent and adopted OBAMA as some AXJ members are stating?

  214. avatar
    AXJ September 4, 2009 at 3:12 am #

    A nice guy who has had the courage to post on the AXJ websites.

  215. avatar
    AXJ September 4, 2009 at 3:14 am #

    Who cares. All I care about is that he was born in the USA and therefor a natural born citizen.

  216. avatar
    AXJ September 4, 2009 at 3:21 am #

    Will be more interesting than that because the only case Orly has to make is that there is a doubt and invoke Judicial Review. If the Judge bites then we will go into discovery. Just remember the Military stay together as do the Masons and Templars…

  217. avatar
    AXJ September 4, 2009 at 3:25 am #

    Why would a President ever write a stupid letter like this? So now he is talking to our children bypassing parents? Didn’t Castro do the same thing?

    http://www.larioja.com/RC/200908/13/Media/fidel-castro–647×231.JPG

  218. avatar
    AXJ September 4, 2009 at 3:32 am #

    Not bad…AXJ only cares about your IP…

  219. avatar
    AXJ September 4, 2009 at 3:39 am #

    Nice to meet you Dr. I speak and write 5 languages fluently and have lived over 20 years in Europe and am back to raise hell. AXJ-Spain is a great playground and vacation spot. I recommend IBIZA.

  220. avatar
    AXJ September 4, 2009 at 3:46 am #

    Yup, 50,000 NSA employees have a whole lot of time and technology to get to the truth…

  221. avatar
    AXJ September 4, 2009 at 3:56 am #

    British Law and Administration of Justice? Another joke. A Judge in the UK cannot be tried by a Jury. As the Brits if you don’t believe me. Ask them what the Lords really do…

  222. avatar
    AXJ September 4, 2009 at 4:00 am #

    JFK?

    AXJ has new pics never before seen. Oswald in the doorway and the driver did it.

  223. avatar
    AXJ September 4, 2009 at 4:03 am #

    Doubt it. Not many Black People in Canada.

  224. avatar
    AXJ September 4, 2009 at 4:18 am #

    I like Orly…she is smart and a good looker..I think I have a crush on her…

  225. avatar
    AXJ September 4, 2009 at 4:38 am #

    All third world countries and mentalities…

    Heard Japanese men are more machos than Spanish men…and beat and abuse their women..is it true?

    Personally I think the Japanese and Chinese Languages will disappear in the future…

    Is Korea looking for war with US again?

  226. avatar
    AXJ September 4, 2009 at 4:42 am #

    Sounds like you are unemployed. Maybe you should think about joining AXJ.

  227. avatar
    TRUTH September 4, 2009 at 7:29 pm #

    So, any bets what day VAN say’s Bye Bye? That Vetting Process at the White House needs some adjustment it appears. And Obama said “I don’t believe any of it”. ONCE again OPENING and RUNNING his mouth before engaging Brain. Just like the Gates/Crowely, hardly a month old. HEY, but by gosh he has a GOOD B.C. What else could we ask for?

  228. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 4, 2009 at 8:34 pm #

    I take it you won’t be voting for Obama in the next election?

  229. avatar
    TRUTH September 4, 2009 at 9:14 pm #

    Theres always a chance….I am in Florida, could push the wrong tab. Actually we did away with that and draw a pencil line. Or DID last year, I seen in the newpaper the county bought some new fangled machine. So heck, I could vote for John Kennedy maybe.

  230. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 6, 2009 at 7:54 am #

    [**AXJ DUMP]
    The purpose of moderating AXJ is not to prevent what he says from appearing, but to prevent him clogging up the recent comments link, which is a vital part of community’s ability to follow comments. So, I’ll just dump deleted ones here.

  231. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 6, 2009 at 7:58 am #

    AXJ:
    Maybe, but it is the first time a Judge is listening.

  232. avatar
    AXJ-San Francisco September 6, 2009 at 5:38 pm #

    Hey, what happened to the other AXJs?

  233. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 6, 2009 at 5:42 pm #

    Your other sock puppet is in the laundry.

    I suggest you not bother leaving any more comments. I don’t plan to publish them.

  234. avatar
    Gordon September 6, 2009 at 5:49 pm #

    Heavy says:
    April 22, 2009 at 1:57 pm

    ATTENTION! The Constitution does NOT cover enemy combatants.

    But the Geneva Convention does.

  235. avatar
    Gordon September 16, 2009 at 4:22 pm #

    Some say that Orly looks like the Gabor sister from Green Acres. Here are some words to the theme of that classic show written for Orly

    Orange County is the place for me.
    Home to California’s G-O-P.
    Birthers spreadin’ cross the countryside.
    Please lean back and remember to open wide.

    U-S Court is where I’d rather be.
    O-bama wasn’t born in Ha-vah-ee.
    I have the proof for all to see.
    Be right back, got a showing at quarter to three!

    …A fraud.
    …A broad.
    …Dem rats.
    …Foil hats.

    You are insane,
    You need more novacaine.
    Bellevue Hospital here you come!

  236. avatar
    misha September 16, 2009 at 10:47 pm #

    Efing brilliant!!

  237. avatar
    SvenMagnussen September 17, 2009 at 12:48 pm #

    Gary Kreep on MommaE Radio Show 09/15/09

    http://www.monksmedia.com/momma/9-15-09.mp3

    Judge didn’t order expedited discovery. He wanted the attorneys to get together and work expeditiously.

    Gary hopes Orly accepts Jesus Christ as her Lord and Savior in her life.

    And the DoJ calls Gary during the show.

  238. avatar
    Rita October 1, 2009 at 11:19 am #

    Not exactly birther-related, but the actions in the article written by John Perry seems to be what Orly and her minions are calling for:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/30/obama-coup-fantasized-abo_n_304231.html

    Newsmax pulled the story from their website, but you can download the article from the link in the HuffPo article.

  239. avatar
    mimi November 9, 2009 at 9:05 pm #

    Doc, Orly filed Motion to Reconsider. Check from about page 204 of “BARNETT v. OBAMA – Act II” topic.

  240. avatar
    wendy November 9, 2009 at 10:11 pm #

    *wendy is laughing*
    gee, Doc… looks like 90% are not much more than “well, YOUR GRAMMA WEARS ARMY BOOTS, SO THERE!”
    I’m counting the days til Mz Orly runs past her deadline for Judge Land and sanctions. I have no opinion on peanut butter except is crunchy better than creamy?

  241. avatar
    Rick A Hyatt November 30, 2009 at 11:18 pm #

    There’s a BIG surprise coming regarding The Great 0’s mixed-race parentage, and why he’s trying to cover it up so bad.
    It’s because his bio-father is none other than former famous East German STASI General Markus Wolf, the “Master Spy” who wanted to perfect the use of sex in espionage (And HE’S WHITE.)
    Wolf was also expert in lending his own genes to selected women (Even black Indonesians) to blend his life-long “Manchurian Candidates,” of which having Celiac’s Disease is neccessary and very benefital in hypnotic programming. As well as in Legend-building and grooming for such a position as “President.”
    The whole thing’s been counter-run since 1977 by the CIA after I was used to lure Wolf over to the West, and he was “Turned.”
    I know: He’s my bio-father, as well.
    http://www.rickhyatt.freeservers.com

  242. avatar
    superdave December 9, 2009 at 1:40 am #

    Couldn’t move past the birth certificate part?
    While you were both doing well in english and spelling. Did it dawn on you that geography or political science might be valuable? I could care less about the birth certificate ? Get a grip , read the second paragraph , take your time if it takes a whole day for you to critique a sentence thats ok . I have compartmentalized, your responses and have plenty of time to evaluate your single thought mentality. I actually train my employees to multi task while evaluating what they are doing. if they haven’t made the grade in a year I don’t assign them as a team leader in production. Most of the people I hire are smart but unable to see there potential. After a year if they are hungry (for english majors we are not talking about food) they usually leave and go somewhere else to float.

    The second paragraph was the thrust of my argument . Lets see, class did the presidents inability to make a decision in a timely manor effect the stability of our military allies and friends in the middle east?

    Answer : Today are ally Kuwait sent a representative to Iran to cover there behind and position themselves for our withdrawal in 18 months.

    I can’t afford to make mistakes like that in my business .
    The resident and chief has hurt us strategically but when you have clueless people in office whose highest position was community organizer , and his two top advisers are as clueless as he is ,that’s called a trifecto or in layman’s terms for you English majors, the 3 stooges.

    If you find mistakes in my grammar or spelling just ignore them. I give my Secretary nights off but if you persist with mental midget games to avoid the 900 lb gurellia in the room. ( what I was really making a point about) I’ll have her type this up and pay her overtime to do it.

    By the way the conversation was about the inability of the president to govern. I also pay people to follow behind me and clean up, My janitor. thanks for pointing out my poor spelling of mute. Oh looking forward to hearing from you.
    Superdave

  243. avatar
    superdave December 9, 2009 at 1:44 am #

    God this is fun is there any one out there who can discuss issues and has a clue about politics?

  244. avatar
    superdave December 9, 2009 at 2:09 am #

    I feel pretty good I’ve finally found a web site that is liberally biased and mentally challenged. Lets see ,… why would someone who supports the president even look up information on a birth certificate?…. Deep seated doubts about who he is ? no that couldn’t be it ? It would have to be because his supporters worshiped him as the anointed one , able to save the day in one speech, and wow now his popularity polls have fallen to the lowest of any president ever in the first year 47% and falling . Believe me a birth certificate is the least of his worries and I could care less. I never drank the koolaid.
    He’s On a confirmed course to bankrupt the country and saddle us with a nightmare of a health care bill we can’t afford. Worse than Carter and I never thought that could be possible.

    When I was sitting in a 150 car gas line in 1974 gas had gone from 29 cents a gallon to a $1.04 in 3 days it took Regan a while to fix the 28% inflation rate and bring it under control. I promised my self then and there that I would never be caught unaware again.
    For all of you young ,koolaid drinkers you have about 6 months before they devalue the dollar and uncontrollable inflation starts up . Laugh now but remember what you read.
    Hey I got 5 thumbs down last time this should get at least 6 or 7 . Having fun yet? this is my fav web site.

  245. avatar
    aarrgghh December 9, 2009 at 3:11 am #

    if you wish to complain about middle east policy, you should take that up with the folks who thought it was a good idea to invade a country that had neither attacked us nor was involved in 9/11 … on the word of a taxi driver.

  246. avatar
    Whatever4 December 9, 2009 at 3:49 am #

    Many of us here are well-versed in geography, history, pop-culture, culinary arts, politics of this AND other countries, science; in fact, a myriad of fascinating subjects. But THIS site specializes in discussions of a particular subject. If you find that people focus only on the Birth Certificate, or definitions of “natural born citizen” as understood in the late 18th century, or Supreme Court cases about citizenship, or colorful lawyers involved in eligibility lawsuits… well… it’s what the site is actually supposed to be about. It’s not that we don’t like policy discussions, or debating just how evil Obama may or may not be. That all just gets in the way of the conspiracy theory discussion, and tends to draw in a more rowdy crowd. We like to keep the tables and glassware intact.

    We’re also not all Obama worshippers. I initially stumbled in here researching McCain’s eligibility issues and stayed.

  247. avatar
    Lupin December 9, 2009 at 5:36 am #

    “I can’t afford to make mistakes like that in my business.”

    You have a business? Pray tell.

  248. avatar
    Scientist December 9, 2009 at 6:44 am #

    superdave: Answer : Today are ally Kuwait sent a representative to Iran to cover there behind and position themselves for our withdrawal in 18 months.

    We are withdrawing from Iran??????

  249. avatar
    Scientist December 9, 2009 at 6:58 am #

    By golly, you’re right. Gas prices really soared during the Obama administration from 2001-2008. Just look at this chart

    http://tfc-charts.w2d.com/chart/UG/M

    What? That was the Bush administration? Oh, never mind….

  250. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 9, 2009 at 7:20 am #

    I think we have a rather large contingent of bootleg CD’s in Iran.

  251. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 9, 2009 at 7:35 am #

    superdave: God this is fun is there any one out there who can discuss issues and has a clue about politics?

    This web site is for the discussion of Obama Conspiracy theories, fringe views and eligibility lawsuits. If you want something else, you might try PolitiJab.com or PoliticalCrossfire.com.

    Thread hijacking is discouraged here, and off-topic comments will be moved to a special article made for that purpose. You can save everybody time (and prevent accidental loss) by posting off-topic comments there to begin with:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/03/the-great-mother-of-all-off-topic-comment-dumps/

  252. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 9, 2009 at 8:11 am #

    Your spelling word list for today is:

    Trifecta (not trifecto)
    Gorilla (not gurellia )
    Their (not “there”)
    Let’s (not lets)
    English (not english)
    Our (not are)
    That’s (not thats)

    And the conversation is about Obama Conspiracy, fringe views and eligibility lawsuits, not government.

  253. avatar
    Black Lion December 9, 2009 at 9:36 am #

    You forgot one…

    manner (not manor)

  254. avatar
    Black Lion December 9, 2009 at 9:53 am #

    Dave, we get it. You did not vote for the President. However Seventy million other Americans did. So what is your point? I am sure you loved the Bush administration. I mean what was there not to like? 2 wars with no end in sight. The worst economic collapse in history. Gas prices through the roof. Erosion of personal rights in the name of “national security”. Outsourcing of American jobs overseas. Yes I can see why you would long for those days. There are over 1,000 days until the next election. 47% is not somehow a number that will never go back up. People are unhappy. Everyone understands that. But unlike the GOP, who said “the fundementals of the economy are strong”, Obama and the Dems are trying to get our country in the right direction.

    Secondly you overestimate your mental abilities if you think that somehow you can outthink or out debate anyone on this blog. You may want to go back to trying to fail at performing stunts and leave the grownups to actually debate the issues. Which on this blog are the birth certificate issue and the Natural born citizen issue.

    Debating Mario was more fun. At least when he defending his ridiculous theory he was entertaining….

  255. avatar
    mommybrain December 9, 2009 at 9:57 am #

    Dave,

    It’s useless to try to argue on the “merits” of your case. Your political opinions are not political facts, yet you argue as if they were generally accepted. There is no honest response we can make except – you are wrong.

    They remind me of my 11 year old, when he is certain he is right and we are wrong – the more they insist they are right, the funnier (and more infuriating) I find them.

  256. avatar
    Greg December 9, 2009 at 10:14 am #

    the lowest of any president ever in the first year 47% and falling

    Bush, Clinton, and Reagan all had approval ratings lower than 47% in the first year.

    Of course, you’re not going to get caught unaware again. Check the rate of increase in health care costs against the rate of inflation over the past several decades. It has been double the rate of inflation. We can’t afford NOT to pass the health care bill.

  257. avatar
    Whatever4 December 9, 2009 at 10:40 am #

    >> his popularity polls have fallen to the lowest of any president ever in the first year 47% and falling

    I believe there’s only 12 presidents with polling data, starting with Truman. Ford, Reagan, and Clinton were in similar ranges, so bottom third rather than worst of 44.

    Very cool graphs with milestones for each president:

    http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-presapp0605-31.html

  258. avatar
    SFJeff December 9, 2009 at 12:59 pm #

    What kind of business do you run that would affect the stability of our military allies?

    You do realize that after 9/11, Iran was actively supporting the U.S. in Afghanistan? Right up until President Bush named Iran part of the Axis of Evil.

    A large part of what President Obama has to contend with in Afghanistan is cleaning up with the missed opportunities of the last 7 years. I hope he has made the correct decision, but there are intelligent people who agree with him and intelligent people who disagree, which points to the fact that Afghanistan is complicated. Our relationship with Pakistan and India and Iran are also all complicated and also all tied to Afghanistan. Sometimes the answer is more complicated than just bombing something.

  259. avatar
    SFJeff December 9, 2009 at 1:12 pm #

    I notice Superdave, that after you asserted with no support that there was a coverup and then asserted- incorrectly- that no terrorist have been tried in civil courts- and people called you on it- you ducked and evaded as well as any politician. Maybe if you actually stand up and defend your assertions you will have some credibility.

    You have your theories about what will happen to the economy? Good for you, but for the good of my country, I hope you are wrong. Matter of fact, your view is a contrarian view not supported by any facts, but you are welcome to it.

    Any- come back here in a year and lets compare. My best guess is that we will be slightly better off than we are now. Unemployment will be creeping lower. Consumer confidence will be creeping higher. And that is all probably for the best- a slow recovery will fight off inflation. A fast recovery would probably spur inflation.

  260. avatar
    Scientist December 9, 2009 at 1:25 pm #

    Given the size of the credit bubble that burst, one had every reason to expect the Great Depression II. Obama will be given a lot of credit by historians for avoiding that scenario and only having a very severe Recession. To be fair and bipartisan, Bernanke and Paulson also deserve a good deal of credit for very vigorous crisis management, although they lose points for not having headed off the crisis before it happened.

    As far as terrorism, at this point in the Bush presidency over 3,000 people had died of terrorist attacks in the US. So far under Obama, assuming you count Ft Hood as terrorism, the total is 13.

  261. avatar
    SFJeff December 9, 2009 at 1:52 pm #

    “When I was sitting in a 150 car gas line in 1974 gas had gone from 29 cents a gallon to a $1.04 in 3 days it took Regan a while to fix the 28% inflation rate and bring it under control. I promised my self then and there that I would never be caught unaware again.”

    Since I do remember those days- I had just started driving- your account didn’t jive with mine.

    “the retail price of a gallon of gasoline (petrol) rose from a national average of 38.5 cents in May 1973 to 55.1 cents in June 1974.”

    My memory was that prices rose up to 75 cents a gallon by the end. It appears gasoline didn’t go over $1.00 a gallon until 1979.

    And this happened under Richard Nixon and was not a result of inflation but helped to cause inflation. And none of this matches up with the economic crisis we have today.

    oh and the top inflation rate was 13%(in 1980) not 28%.

  262. avatar
    superdave December 9, 2009 at 1:53 pm #

    to aarrgghh,the way I see it we are tied I got 3 down and you got 3 up . That makes us even and if you could have read my posting last night about the birthers I would have 5 more then you but when they edited my post they felt sorry for you and gave you the lead . In my highly valued opinion the “game” isn’t over and even with the editor helping you out you are still at a disadvantage It isn’t about spelling its about not being able to produce the birth certificate.

    Superdave

    ps I wont waste my time on the Dr. of conspiracy. Probably a retired english teacher.

    pss Really got under your skin didn’t I ? How do I know? You couldn’t get pass the grammar to have a discussion. Put up something we don’t already know. political couldn’t put up anything valid so they came to the conclusion we have to believe them. thats either dumb ,Lazy or 1 sided

  263. avatar
    SFJeff December 9, 2009 at 2:07 pm #

    First of all “Superdave” the vast quantity of your mispelling is symbolic of how little you care about the truth. If you know you can’t spell, how hard is it to use Spell check?

    Trying to thread through your posts- what is it you want to discuss?

    You say the Birth certificate isn’t the issue but then you ask for the birth certificate- seemingly unaware that one was posted and verified.

    President Obama’s accomplishments? Well the economy hasn’t completely collapsed, the stock market has rebounded, the financial sector is far stronger than it was 11 months ago and there haven’t been any successful attacks on U.S. soil by foreign terrorists.

    Am I satisfied? Of course not- there are many things I wish the President had done better or tackled more aggresively. I would give the President maybe a 7 at this point in his presidency.

    But serious discussions are hard when the other side calls the President an ursurper and a criminal with absolutely no evidence of either.

  264. avatar
    aarrgghh December 9, 2009 at 5:51 pm #

    if you’re under the impression that obamaconspiracy points count for anything in court, you’re gonna be sadly disappointed. again.

    come back after you’ve won a case. or anything. at 0-60+, the docket’s looking awful one-sided (note the spelling).

    game still over, man.

  265. avatar
    aarrgghh December 9, 2009 at 6:05 pm #

    hmm … since comment nesting seems to not be working (at least for me), i’ll post this one last time. doc, you are free to delete my previous two comments in lieu of this one.

    to repeat, superdave yammered:

    to aarrgghh,the way I see it we are tied I got 3 down and you got 3 up . That makes us even and if you could have read my posting last night about the birthers I would have 5 more then you but when they edited my post they felt sorry for you and gave you the lead . In my highly valued opinion the “game” isn’t over and even with the editor helping you out you are still at a disadvantage It isn’t about spelling its about not being able to produce the birth certificate.

    Superdave

    ps I wont waste my time on the Dr. of conspiracy. Probably a retired english teacher.

    pss Really got under your skin didn’t I ? How do I know? You couldn’t get pass the grammar to have a discussion. Put up something we don’t already know. political couldn’t put up anything valid so they came to the conclusion we have to believe them. thats either dumb ,Lazy or 1 sided

    if you’re under the impression that obamaconspiracy points count for anything in court, you’re gonna be sadly disappointed. again.

    come back after you’ve won a case. or anything. at 0-60+, the docket’s looking awful one-sided (note the spelling).

    game still over, man.

  266. avatar
    Rickey December 9, 2009 at 8:45 pm #

    superdave says:

    When I was sitting in a 150 car gas line in 1974

    The oil crisis started in 1973. You do recall that the president then was Nixon? Carter didn’t become president until 1977.

    it took Regan a while to fix the 28% inflation rate and bring it under control.

    Do you remember WIN – Whip Inflation Now? That was the mantra of the Ford administration. The inflation rate was in double digits from February, 1974 through April, 1975, which encompassed both the Nixon administration and the Ford administration. And as has been pointed out, the inflation rate never got close to 28%. The highest it got was 14.76% in March, 1980. Besides checking your spelling, you might also want to consider checking your facts.

    http://inflationdata.com/inflation/default.asp

    While we’re looking at inflation data, during the four years of the first Bush administration the average inflation rates were 4.83%, 5.39%, 4.25% & 3.03%. During the eight years of the Clinton administration, the inflation rate exceeded 3% only one year. The inflation rate exceeded 3% three years during the second Bush administration.

    And if you want to see Obama’s birth certificate, you can look at nine views of it here. Raised seal, the registrar’s signature, born in Honolulu – it’s all there.

    http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

  267. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 9, 2009 at 9:54 pm #

    I have a strong sense of deja vu. I’ve seen this set of misinformation and correction before. I think superdave’s history is no better than his spelling.

    And no, I am neither retired, nor an English teacher. But I did pay attention in class when I was in school, and MY job requires me to be able to write coherently, with correct spelling in grammar.

  268. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 9, 2009 at 10:02 pm #

    Anything could go wrong with comments moved to the Off Topic Comment Dump. I’m not surprised you had trouble nesting.

  269. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 10, 2009 at 10:17 pm #

    ACORN Probe: No Illegal Pattern in Videos reports CBS news.

  270. avatar
    TRUTH December 18, 2009 at 7:14 pm #

    cut from the AsscPress:
    COPENHAGEN – President Barack Obama declared Friday a “meaningful and unprecedented breakthrough” had been reached among the U.S., China and three other countries on a global effort to curb climate change but said much work was still be needed to reach a legally binding treaty.

    “It is going to be very hard, and it’s going to take some time,” he said near the conclusion of a 193-nation global warming summit. “We have come a long way, but we have much further to go.”
    ………………………..
    That last paragraph I believe he has memorized well enough he only needs to adjust it for the different subject. I’ve heard him time time again say “We’ve come a long ways, but still have very far to go”. What a COP OUT Statement.

    Allow me to translate that for you. “We’re not really any farther than we were before, but I talk shit so well you all will believe anything I say. So I also cover my ass and tell you there is lots more to do, so that when My Staff and I don’t get shit accomplished in 4 years then I am still able to blame the people before me saying WE did a LOT, but we just can’t fix what that idiot before me did.”

    He’s PURE Politician. Biggest crap talking useless President that has ever stepped foot in the White House. Birthers would do well not worrying about his past and just pointing out how he is screwing up the present and future.

    Obama has the LOWEST Rating of Any President in History after 1year in office. One BIG CHANGE from his first few months isn’t it.

  271. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 18, 2009 at 8:36 pm #

    TRUTH: Obama has the LOWEST Rating of Any President in History after 1year in office.

    Actually Obama is right about where Carter, Ford, Reagan and Clinton were after a year.

    But frankly, I don’t think there’s anything Obama could do that you would approve of. You got so prejudiced by that smear book you read early on that you see everything through a jaundiced eye.

  272. avatar
    Greg December 18, 2009 at 8:50 pm #

    Obama has the LOWEST Rating of Any President in History after 1year in office

    Do you birthers EVER get tired of lying? At least lie about something that isn’t so EASILY checked!

    Today’s Gallup for Obama is 52% approval. Reagan’s 12/11-14/81 approval from Gallup was 49%. Clinton dipped as low as 37% in June before rebounding to an approval of, wait for it, 52%.

    Which is greater, 52 or 49?

    Remind me, how many terms did Reagan and Clinton serve?

  273. avatar
    nbc December 18, 2009 at 9:04 pm #

    Who is interested in facts Dr, Truth certainly is not interested in pursuing his namesake.

  274. avatar
    aarrgghh December 18, 2009 at 9:34 pm #

    from the american presidency project:

    summary — the following numbers come from polls at the start of office, one year in, and at the end of office. polling worse than obama after one year: reagan (48), clinton (47), truman (45), ford (42)

    presidential job approval over time:

    obama
    68 12 21 (01/23/09)
    51 41 8 (12/16/09)

    bush
    57 25 18 (02/04/01)
    85 10 3 (12/16/01)
    34 61 5 (1/11/09)

    clinton
    58 20 22 (01/26/93)
    47 42 09 (12/19/93)
    66 29 05 (1/14/2001)

    bush
    51 06 43 (01/26/89)
    70 20 08 (12/10/89)
    56 37 07 (1/11/93)

    reagan
    51 13 36 (02/02/81)
    48 41 10 (12/14/81)
    63 29 08 (12/29/88)

    carter
    66 08 26 (02/07/77)
    56 27 16 (12/06/77)
    34 55 11 (12/08/80)

    ford
    70 03 26 (08/13/74)
    42 41 16 (12/03/74)
    53 32 15 (12/13/76)

    nixon
    59 05 36 (01/28/69)
    53 37 08 (12/30/69)
    24 66 10 (08/05/74)

    johnson
    77 02 19 (12/10/63)
    68 18 13 (11/25/64)
    49 37 14 (01/06/69)

    kennedy
    72 06 22 (02/15/61)
    76 10 12 (12/05/61)
    58 30 11 (11/13/63)

    eisenhower
    68 07 25 (02/05/53)
    68 21 09 (12/09/53)
    59 28 13 (12/13/60)

    truman
    86 02 10 (05/29/45)
    45 42 12 (05/29/46)
    32 56 12 (12/16/52)

  275. avatar
    TRUTH December 21, 2009 at 10:42 pm #

    NBC, I did research the Truth, unlike you going off hearsay and Medias News. How much history did you do on Obama? Nevermind, I don’t want to hear your lies. You wear Obama shaded glasses. If your so ignorant you can’t see the damage he and his cabinet are doing, your hopeless.

    ANd I didn’t make up that POOREST Rating after 1 year, that’s where he is at. OH WAIT, Unless you ask BARRACK Himself, and he is a B+. What a JOKE. That is SO conceited of a rating to give yourself.

    He Assigns a General to do a Job, the GEN gives him recommendation, and he ignores it for almost 3 months. GREAT CINC he is..B+ If that means BAD PLUS maybe.

    He’s PUSHED through MULTI BILLION Dollar Bills, NOT EVEN KNOWING what they say, for when asked questions he said “I’ll get back to you on that” B+ “Bogus PLUS”

    He promised Transparency, NO SECRETS when it comes to Bills affecting us. Said CSPAN would be in the room. This Health Care Bill has been behind closed doors the ENTIRE TIME. Harry Reid has refused EVERY Republican suggestion and THEN they Bribe the Nebraska and Louisiana Senators. BRIBERY!!…Authorized ONLY In Democrats Political Decisions. They are a Pathetic JOKE and if you believe in them…well, Birds of a Feather. B+ Birds + Birds

    NBC, You DON’T KNOW what the TRUTH IS. You just spew your sorry rhetoric in here. It’s Ok. 2010 and 2012 as many sorry Democrats as possible are losing their jobs and these idiotic bills will all be repelled.

  276. avatar
    TRUTH December 21, 2009 at 10:47 pm #

    As for the Dumocrats refusing Republicans inputs to the Health Care Bill. It would be one thing if they at least had good reason, pointing out why the suggestions aren’t good. But instead all we keep hearing is more lies…”well the Republicans never had any inputs.” “Where were the Republicans when health care needed reformed?”. etc..etc..

    Its about POWER! They don’t care whats IN the Bill, only that THEY WRITE it to suit THEM. Them and all the Porklining within it. And if that wasn’t enough, they openly bribe to two Senators I mentioned before. GReAT PARTY to Be a Part of Boys. You SHOULD BE PROUD.

  277. avatar
    TRUTH December 21, 2009 at 10:51 pm #

    FOrd wasn’t VOted IN, and I believe I heard Obama’s number was 40-something. It must have been a conservative poll, yeah that’s it.

  278. avatar
    aarrgghh December 21, 2009 at 11:28 pm #

    truth, my friend, you could be a research dynamo if only you could find out how to post links to the voices in your head.

  279. avatar
    Greg December 21, 2009 at 11:29 pm #

    I didn’t make up that POOREST Rating after 1 year, that’s where he is at

    Never let FACTS get in the way of a good story. Reagan was lower. Clinton was lower. I showed you the facts. Aarrgh showed you that Ford and Truman were lower.

    Want to back up your BS? Yeah, that’s what I thought. You’re all hat and no cattle.

    Yap, yap, yap. Lie, lie, lie.

  280. avatar
    Greg December 21, 2009 at 11:32 pm #

    I believe I heard Obama’s number was 40-something.

    You believe you heard? There’s a credible source!

  281. avatar
    The Sheriff's A Ni- December 22, 2009 at 1:14 am #

    Who needs FACTS I have the TRUTH it comes to me in the VOICES in my HEAD and they tell me to TYPE erratically IN ALL CAPITALS with ONE hand

    you LIEBERLAS believe the NEWS MEDIA instead of a PATRIOT like ME so that makes you STUPID and i WOULD insult you MORE but the NURSE says i have TO go TO BED now

  282. avatar
    SFJeff December 22, 2009 at 1:24 pm #

    Bribery is a proud tradition of Congress. I hope you get this irate for all of the other bills that this happens for.

    Anyway TRUTH, as usual your true colors come out. You find pleasure only in bad news, and when others point out the untruths your post, you come out swinging with other things you hate. Lots of hate there guy. Lots of hate.

  283. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 22, 2009 at 1:41 pm #

    I would refer readers to the article on this subject at Politifact.com.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/dec/17/karl-rove/rove-says-obamas-approval-ratings-after-year-are-w/

  284. avatar
    Greg December 22, 2009 at 2:32 pm #

    Just as I said, Reagan numbers just as bad as Obama’s.

    What the article fails to point out is that Clinton was, at this point in his tenure, scrambling out of a hole that makes Obama look like the most popular President since Lincoln. He had, a few months before this point in his term, achieved a 37% approval rating.

    Clinton and Reagan were both two term Presidents. Obama is on the verge of completing something that every Democratic President has tried to do since the second world war – reform health care.

  285. avatar
    JC December 25, 2009 at 6:28 pm #

    Peace on Earth???

    Aren’t humans amazing Animals? They kill wildlife – birds, deer, all kinds of cats, coyotes, beavers, groundhogs, mice and foxes by the million in order to protect their domestic animals and their feed.

    Then they kill domestic animals by the billion and eat them. This in turn kills people by the million, because eating all those animals leads to degenerative – and fatal – – health conditions like heart disease, stroke, kidney disease, and cancer.

    So then humans spend billions of dollars torturing and killing millions of more animals to look for cures for these diseases.

    Elsewhere, millions of other human beings are being killed by hunger and malnutrition because food they could eat is being used to fatten domestic animals.

    Meanwhile, few people recognize the absurdity of humans, who kill so easily and violently, and once a year send out cards praying for “Peace on Earth.”

    ~Revised Preface to Old MacDonald’s Factory Farm by C. David Coates~

    Check out this informative and inspiring video on why people choose vegan: http://veganvideo.org/

    Also see Gary Yourofsky: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bagt5L9wXGo

  286. avatar
    mimi January 6, 2010 at 1:36 pm #

    Hi Doc,
    Your site loads so much faster now. Thanks!

    I thought you might be interested in this post by Tes.
    http://www.politijab.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2938&start=150#p99006

  287. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 6, 2010 at 5:03 pm #

    There are two things that I think contribute to the faster site loading. First, this web site has been moved to a new server, which seems to be faster or less loaded. Second, last night I changed the category widget (upper right) from the fancy one to a plain one after being appalled by how much HTML code the old one generated.

    I’m glad you are experiencing better performance. The user experience is important to me. I value the time you spend on the site and wouldn’t want it wasted.

  288. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 6, 2010 at 5:07 pm #

    Thanks. That’s a wonderful discussion over at PolitiJab and Tes always does a great job.

  289. avatar
    Rickey January 6, 2010 at 5:31 pm #

    Tes pretty much dismantles the “two citizen parents” argument with these citations:

    Mustata v. US Dept. of Justice, 179 F.3d 1017 (6th Cir. 1999) (children born in US to two Romanian citizens described as “natural born citizens” of the US):

    Petitioners Marian and Lenuta Mustata are citizens of Romania. At the time of their petition, they resided in Michigan with their two minor children, who are natural born citizens of the United States.

    DeTomaso v. McGinnis, 970 F2d 211 (7th Cir. 1992) (equating “natural born citizen” with “native born citizen” for purposes of presidential eligibility):

    DeTomaso is “eligible” to be President of the United States if he is “a natural born Citizen … [who has] attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.” Art. II § 1 cl. 5. A 35-year-old native does not have a property interest in the presidency.

    Diaz-Salazar v. INS, 700 F.2d 1156 (7th Cir. 1983) (child born in US to Mexican citizen is “natural born citizen” of US):

    Petitioner, Sebastian Diaz-Salazar, entered the United States illegally [from Mexico] in 1974 and has been living and working in Chicago since that time. *** The relevant facts which have been placed before the INS, BIA, and this court can be summarized as follows: The petitioner has a wife and two children under the age of three in Chicago; the children are natural-born citizens of the United States.

    Nwankpa v. Kissinger, 376 F. Supp. 122 (M.D. Ala. 1974) (child born in US to two Biafra citizens described as “natural born citizen” of the US):

    The Plaintiff was a native of Biafra, now a part of the Republic of Nigeria. His wife and two older children are also natives of that country, but his third child, a daughter, is a natural-born citizen of the United States.

    Liacakos v. Kennedy, 195 F. Supp. 630 (D.D.C. 1961) (holding that where evidence supported contention that person was born in US (to two citizens of Greece), he was a “natural born citizen” of the US):

    The plaintiff claims that he is a natural-born citizen of the United States, having been born in Wheeling, West Virginia, on July 14, 1900. He claims that when he was two or three years of age his parents returned to their native Greece… ***
    The Court is of the opinion that, weighing the evidence on both sides, the plaintiff has established by a fair preponderance of the evidence that he is a natural-born citizen of the United States, and the Court so finds.

    Nyman v. Erickson, 170 P. 546 (Wash. 1918) (child born in the US to Russian citizen was “natural born citizen” of US):

    Appellant was therefore, as correctly decided by the General Land Office and the Department of the Interior, not an heir of the deceased entryman, while at the time of the final proof at least the grandchild Esther Gustafson undoubtedly was. She was born in a state of the United States, and whether her parents were naturalized or not, under the Constitution she is a natural-born citizen of the United States entitled to the benefits of all the laws of the United States and of the state. U. S. Const. Amend. 14, § 1.

    State ex rel. Carroll v. Sup. Ct. of Washington, 193 P. 226 (Wash. 1920) (holding that there are two (and only two) paths to citizenship and that natural born citizenship depends upon location of birth):

    According to the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution of the United States there are two methods by which a person may become a citizen: (a) By birth in the United States; and (b) by naturalization therein . A natural-born citizen’s right to vote depends upon his place of birth, and this is the fact to be established. A naturalized citizen’s right to vote depends, not upon his place of birth, but on a judgment or decree of a court of competent jurisdiction, declaring either him or his ancestor a naturalized citizen.

  290. avatar
    NbC January 6, 2010 at 6:24 pm #

    Wow wow wow

  291. avatar
    Jez January 6, 2010 at 6:57 pm #

    I can hear it now:

    “But those aren’t Supreme Court!”… blah blah blah

    Or are they? I could never read citations.

  292. avatar
    SFJeff January 6, 2010 at 7:26 pm #

    I am putting down a bet that within 2 days a birther will post here that its written in the Constitution that both parents must be citizens and anyone who doesn’t know that is ignorant.

  293. avatar
    Joseph January 6, 2010 at 8:49 pm #

    [Our new troll, Joseph, has been busy trying to antagonize everybody with a string of 11 mostly insulting posts. To create less disruption, I’ll dump them all here. By way of reply to the one directed to me: My Russian is not good enough to read what you wrote, and since you didn’t use the Russian alphabet, I can’t paste it into the Google translator. Doc C.]

    SFJeff = Another easily recognized long time member of FAT TRACY RUSSO’S PAID DOJ BLOGGING TEAM.


    euphgeek: We’re on to you, comrade!

    euphgeek – How is your boss at DOJ, FAT TRACY RUSSO, doing?


    Those who blindly believe what “Dr. Conspiracy” says are less intelligent than the lowest street walking crack addicts.


    “G” – Your lack of awareness of the existence and agenda of the “New World Order”, which placed Obama in office, does not in any way negate the well established fact that the “NWO” exists. In other words, you love to call anything you don’t understand or agree with a “conspiracy theory”.


    “G” – You live in a fantasy world and reality escapes your tiny mind.


    “G” – You’re simply rude AND “fos”, which is typical of Marxists such as you.


    “Dr. Conspiracy”, you are a paid liar AND a fool.


    NBC – It’s clear you’ve never been directly involved in warfare. The torturing of enemy combatants to obtain information may be illegal, but ALL sides do it. Oh, btw, BOTH sides in every war also execute prisoners of war where they are captured so they don’t have to waste resources on enemy combatants. You must be every bit of twelve years of age (mentally).


    “Rickey” – Nice “cut and paste” of a load of totally erroneous and “twisted and turned to fit” crapola, you very obvious non-lawyer and totally out of touch with reality fool. The b/s you’ve posted is a poor effort at misdirection and it bears no relationship whatsoever to the matter of Obama’s lack of eligibility. You’ve proven beyond any and all doubt that you are simply another extremely childish Obama supporting pathological liar, PLUS you neither understand, nor even partially comprehend, the CORRECT interpretation of those 100% out of context and 99% fabricated “citations”. The “Watergate conspiracy” took over two years to fully prove, the “Obama conspiracy” will take about the same amount of time and TRACY RUSSO’S team of paid liars at D.O.J. will be remembered by historians as WORSE scum than the Watergate burglars. Thanks to the obvious one-sided nonsense being spread 24/7/365 by “Dr. Conspiracy” and the other paid liars working for Obama, most of the intelligent people in America have decided to study the proper legal facts posted on the sites of competent lawyers and they have now become well aware that Obama is not Constitutionally qualified to hold office. No matter how many times you paid liars (“keyboard whores”) working on behalf of Obama repeat the outright lies you’ve posted, they’ll still be lies.


    Ya evo ne bayus’, ya vsyo skazhu, shto ya o nyom dumayu. – Ty u nas vseh yozhei golym zadom zadavil.


    Due to my EXTENSIVE connections, I know PRECISELY whom you actually represent, Dr. Russian Turd, aka “Dr. Conspiracy”. Ya evo ne bayus’, ya vsyo skazhu, shto ya o nyom dumayu. – Ty u nas vseh yozhei golym zadom zadavil.

  294. avatar
    nbc January 6, 2010 at 10:47 pm #

    NBC – It’s clear you’ve never been directly involved in warfare. The torturing of enemy combatants to obtain information may be illegal, but ALL sides do it.

    Who cares? Unless one lets his morality be guided by the actions of others. In a civil society such ‘arguments’ can and should never be confused with a reasoned position as to how to treat our enemies.

    Sad to hear that you seem to hold to a more primitive mentality.

  295. avatar
    G January 6, 2010 at 10:48 pm #

    This is in response to the troll Joseph and his steaming pile of delusional tantrums and laughably insane rants:

    Bite me loser.

    Yeah, they are called conspiracy theories for a reason – because the sane world considers you crazy fools who believe such tenuous and bizarre claims to be absolute nuts

    I’m well aware of the tired old “new world order” and “one world order” conspiracies. Hell, those have been going on since the heydays of the John Birch society…which I assume you must be a member of that long discredited bunch of fear mongering lunatics.

    Guess what – the majority of people think that stuff is nothing but crazy conspiracy talk, so if you are offended that I think it is all bunk…well, then you must hate the world because most of us are laughing at you.

    You are probably one of those nuts who is still in fear of the fluoride in your water and who thinks that “red commies” and “black helicopters” are lurking around every corner, coming for you…LOL!

    You sir are a pathetic spiteful little delusional wad of fear and hate. Ooooh…you can throw around words like “Marxist” and accuse others of being full of sh*t…however everyone you seem to be attacking here presents facts, while you just rant and whine.

    And oooh…accusing all the people of being “paid” bloggers for the DOJ? Geez, do you have any idea how stupid you sound when you say stuff like that?

    I can’t even take your pathetic rants seriously because they are so full of stupid attacks and ridiculous claims. You are a joke. Do yourself a favor and up your meds.

  296. avatar
    nbc January 6, 2010 at 10:50 pm #

    Hey Doc, you must be doing something quite effective for Joseph to spend/waste so much vitriol.
    Perhaps Joseph realizes that 62 failed lawsuits later, the American people have come to realize that the claim that our President is not eligible, is a foolish one.
    After all, even Glenn Beck agrees with me here. Now that’s a deep pit to be in…

    Well done Doc.

  297. avatar
    SFJeff January 7, 2010 at 1:30 pm #

    Joseph- I am honored to be insulted by such a prolific troll!

    Just one specific:
    “The torturing of enemy combatants to obtain information may be illegal, but ALL sides do it.”

    One of my favorite quotes by President Obama, I believe during his Inaugeration speech was his comment that during the Blitz, Britain didn’t torture captured German pilots, even though they knew the pilots had information that could have saved British lives. They understood that torture was against the moral values of the country. Torture is against our moral values too.

    “Oh, btw, BOTH sides in every war also execute prisoners of war where they are captured so they don’t have to waste resources on enemy combatants”

    Certainly that has happened, but we don’t do that as policy. If you read any history, you will understand quickly that allowing the enemy to surrender saves lives on your side. If the enemy knows they will be executed if they surrender, they have no reason to surrender. But then again I imagine that reading books is a challenge for you.

  298. avatar
    Rickey January 7, 2010 at 5:44 pm #

    Ah, Joseph.

    I have never claimed to be an attorney, though I probably know more about the law than 99% of non-attorneys. I certainly know enough to understand that if you are going to accuse someone of fabricating or taking citations out of context, it is incumbent upon you to cite evidence of such. But, being the troll that you are, it is much easier to make ad hominem attacks than produce evidence. In fact, ad hominem attacks are what birthers do best.

  299. avatar
    SFJeff January 11, 2010 at 5:00 pm #

    President Obama is a Swede!

    I attended a broadcast of “Prairie Home Companion” on Saturday and Garrison Keilor announced it, so it must be true.

    I wish I could remember the rest, but as funny as it was, it wasn’t as funny as the stuff the Birthers make up.

  300. avatar
    Joseph January 18, 2010 at 12:22 am #

    While many European nations are now in the process of dismantling their “socialized medicine” systems (cleverly known here as “healthcare reform”), many ignorant American politicians are still embracing the antiquated, bankrupt, and failed socialist system. Obama is an international disgrace, the entire world makes fun of his ignorance – he actually makes Bush look like a genius. Eastern European newspapers commonly refer to Obama as “America’s biggest clown” and Congress as “America’s circus of insanity”. Larry Sinclair may well be elected to Congress, THEN THE REAL FUN WILL BEGIN!

  301. avatar
    Greg January 18, 2010 at 8:56 am #

    Searching Google for: “‘America’s biggest clown’ Obama” gives 1 result. It’s a Michael Vick discussion.

    A search for “America’s circus of insanity” found no results.

    Why such transparent lies, Joseph? Do you think we’re gullible? That we cannot use Google?

  302. avatar
    Scientist January 18, 2010 at 9:29 am #

    Joseph: While many European nations are now in the process of dismantling their “socialized medicine” systems

    Such as?

  303. avatar
    Bovril January 18, 2010 at 1:25 pm #

    Joseph,

    You plainly have no idea about the EU countries whatsoever,

    Which country, which health care system, the French, Swedish, British, German, Austrian, Italian….

    All have very different systems, totally different balances of public and private funding and take up.

    All do, typically by statute, bear a responsibility to the tax payer to review and ensure costs are managed and resources allocated whilst maintaining service levels.

    That, in the real world, is called “fiscal responsibility”, you may have heard the phrase mouthed but ignored by the Repubs…..

    It is also one of the reasons that admin costs for healthcare for the other OECD countries is generally 1/4 to 1/5th the costs in the US….all money that then can be spent on front line care.

    As for trying to scare the gullible with that dirty wicked commie-fascist pinko word socialized…..You mean socialized medicine like the Medicaid system that pays for your colostomy bag and Metamucil…..

  304. avatar
    Bovril January 18, 2010 at 1:27 pm #

    Joseph,

    You plainly have no idea about the EU countries whatsoever,

    Which country, which health care system, the French, Swedish, British, German, Austrian, Italian….

    All have very different systems, totally different balances of public and private funding and take up.

    All do, typically by statute, bear a responsibility to the tax payer to review and ensure costs are managed and resources allocated whilst maintaining service levels.

    That, in the real world, is called “fiscal responsibility”, you may have heard the phrase mouthed but ignored by the Repubs…..

    It is also one of the reasons that admin costs for healthcare for the other OECD countries is generally 1/4 to 1/5th the costs in the US….all money that then can be spent on front line care.

    As for trying to scare the gullible with that dirty wicked commie-fascist pinko word socialized…..You mean socialized medicine like the Medicaid system that pays for your colostomy bag and Metamucil…..

  305. avatar
    SFJeff January 18, 2010 at 2:49 pm #

    “Obama is an international disgrace, the entire world makes fun of his ignorance – he actually makes Bush look like a genius.”

    Reference please? Pretty much every European I knew dispised Bush and adores Obama. It appears to me that Obama is more popular outside the United States than inside.

    “Eastern European newspapers commonly refer to Obama as “America’s biggest clown”

    I can think of nothing that makes me feel prouder than having newspapers controlled by right wing fascists or old line communists insulting our President. Sounds like he is doing something right.

  306. avatar
    NBC January 18, 2010 at 8:59 pm #

    There are none but there are many countries who are streamlining their socialized medicine systems (poor term btw).

    Joseph seems to be rather an ignorant kind

  307. avatar
    Joseph January 20, 2010 at 2:12 am #

    Scott Brown’s win in Massachusetts shows that “the usurper’s” endorsement of Martha Coakley was as helpful to her campaign as tying her to a ship’s anchor, then dropping her off the deep end of a long pier at high tide. A conservative candidate from ultra-liberal Massachusetts winning a Senate seat proves beyond all doubt “the worm has turned”. The obvious, rude, nasty, illegal, evil, and now publicly well known “DOJ Blog Squad” has not, as they had foolishly planned and imagined, helped “the usurper” and his extreme far left Marxist/socialist fellow travelers, it has backfired and helped to destroy them. Many of the “backlash” voters are very upset that “the usurper” is still concealing all his background records, has broken every last one of his campaign promises, absolutely refuses to produce his “long form” birth certificate and claims “it’s no longer available” (does he REALLY believe the voters are THAT ignorant?), and he is wasting millions of dollars worth of the government’s attorneys’ time (OUR MONEY) to protect him from being forced into a court of law to face up to the facts. AFTER ONLY ONE INNING OF WHAT WAS SCHEDULED TO BE A FOUR INNING GAME, “THE USURPER” and HIS TEAM ARE ALREADY TOO FAR BEHIND TO EVER CATCH UP! (Think “coprolalia”. Tonight, there’s a massive outbreak of it rapidly spreading through Washington.)

  308. avatar
    Greg January 20, 2010 at 8:40 am #

    No one here in the Commonwealth believes that Obama’s endorsement hurt Coakley. She ran a horrible campaign filled with gaffes and miscues. Birtherism wasn’t an issue in the race.

    Obama’s more popular here than Coakley and her team thinks that if they’d gotten more support from him earlier, they’d have won.

    Of course, if she’d known who Curt Schilling was (the relief-pitcher whose bloody sock performance in the world series should be emblazened in the mind of any Bay-State resident) she might have won.

  309. avatar
    Black Lion January 20, 2010 at 10:48 am #

    Larry Sinclair to congress? Now that is a joke. For you to even mention him shows your deep hatred for the President. He is a convicted felon. He is not getting more than 1% of the vote. Period.

  310. avatar
    baimimubyTies February 28, 2010 at 12:25 am #

    Hey everone I found a new way to learn about web marketing here. It just began tonight at Midnight.
    Its brand new on the market..Unleashed and ready to drive Millions to your site right now

    Its pretty exciting wa to get people to your website and complete instructions on how to do it.

  311. avatar
    BOBO1 March 6, 2010 at 6:13 pm #

    MONTHLY LAYOFFS ARE DOWN 95% FROM THE PEAK REACH IN 2008 DURING BUSH.

    DOW/NAS AT 18 MONTH HIGHS

    MORE TERRORISTS KILLED/CAPTURED IN LAST 45 DAYS THAN IN 7 YEARS UNDER BUSH.

    GIVEN RECENT CRAZY PEOPLE VIOLENCE, PLEASE STOP USING VIOLENT INDUCING LANGUAGE

  312. avatar
    SFJeff March 22, 2010 at 2:32 pm #

    I just want to point out that the Health Care Insurance reform bill passed, so officially today the United States is a Commie Muslim Country that hates its citizens, and Kenya has achieved its secret agenda.

  313. avatar
    misha April 17, 2010 at 7:56 pm #

    Jerry Schweighart, the Mayor of Champaign, was asked what he thinks of Barack Obama.

    “I don’t think he’s American, personally,” he responded.

  314. avatar
    tfb April 17, 2010 at 8:18 pm #

    Look at Detroit, the Post Modern American Demarkkksists’ Nirvana.
    There again, they did their “thang”; profited off the backs of the oppressed and ruined their lives even more, and consumed all that was good until they created their prized corrupt HELLHOLE.
    That is what you Demonkkkkrats will do to all of America via your illegal alien Obama.

  315. avatar
    tfb April 17, 2010 at 8:19 pm #

    Blacks are returning to their party of origin in greater numbers.
    Republicans.
    And you know what you Demarkkksists call them for it?
    Uncle Toms. Oreos.
    Showing again, it’s the Demarkkksists who are still the racists.

  316. avatar
    tfb April 17, 2010 at 9:07 pm #

    Come on DC, you sit there pretending as if you don’t notice the other part of this velvet marxist coup? That Obama has bankrupted the USA FOUR generations down the line? He’s said we won’t test, produce, or use nukes on nations who may kill millions of Americans using other methods. He’s freed and funded terrorists, pretty much everywhere. He’s a fascist, a racist, a liar. He threatens Americans. He’s a total fraud in every other way. Please tell me you aren’t that blithely unaware. If so, you are irredeemable.

    [This comment has been moved to the off-topic thread. Doc.]

  317. avatar
    G April 17, 2010 at 10:16 pm #

    Ok, so three mindless race-focused rants by this tfb poster in a row that have very little if anything to do with the topic of this website.

    Someone tell this race-obsessed joker that the racists and KKK folk mostly switched over to the GOP after the dems passed civil rights legislation in the 1960s.

  318. avatar
    thisoldhippie April 17, 2010 at 10:51 pm #

    Crazy, Big Foot Ed Hale is at it again:

    Folks:
    I have sat here day after day and said “No violence’s“.
    I have changed my mind now and I believe the day is coming soon when civil war will break out in this country. You will need to make sure that your weapons are in good working order, make sure that you have at least 2500 rounds for each weapon. You will need to get yourself some military clothing. You will need survival food. Make sure that your family has a safe place to go that you can defend. No one will be there to help you, so you must defend yourself and your family. Forget everything else and get this done asap.

    Here is my reason for saying this. Our court system will not answer our problems. The law is against us and when it becomes that way, then we are left only one choice. As Thomas Jefferson said “The constitutions must be refreshed every so often with the blood of patriots”. We must fight and die for what we believe in.

    Folks, the problem is our country has became a state of the few. If you don’t have money and don’t kiss the azz of certain people, you an’t goanna get chit done. We are no longer have representatives in Washington DC. The money controls them. Greed is out of control.

    Remember this, there is 100 times more of us that makes $20K to $80K than there is all those multi millionaire who are now running our country. I can tell you this, if things do not change by November 2, 2010, there will be one of the bloodiest revolution in the world start after that.

    We cannot take any more of this. If they don’t want to give us honest answer, then I see them getting hot lead. Now that is hard to say but I am telling you it is coming. I hope that I am dead and gone before it happens to my country.

    Get them weapon oiled, locked and loaded because the time is coming for you to use them. I can just feel the tension in the air now. People are getting angrier by the day. In war, you just aim at your enemy and squeeze the trigger. It is you or him. It is call the survival of the fittest.

    Pray to god he will step in and stop this. I wish that I did not have to tell you this, but it is the truth. God save America, because it is now in your hands.
    State Texas

  319. avatar
    G April 17, 2010 at 11:36 pm #

    How disgusting!

    As I’ve been saying for awhile now, expect to see more and more of this “Civil War” meme crop up from these sore loser crybabies that can’t handle when they don’t get their way and when the majority of the populace disagrees with them.

    Personally, I think anyone who speaks like this is nothing but a traitor to this country.

  320. avatar
    Igor Marxomarxovich April 18, 2010 at 12:14 am #

    Do you people not have anything else to do. Just show the F’n paper and get on with it . Unless……….of couse there’s a problem with this…..Then attack legitimate questioners as birthers and call crazy. Very old tactic that I Igor see in old country often

  321. avatar
    tfb April 18, 2010 at 6:04 am #

    “he wouldn’t have been”…bla bla bla
    Demokkkrats are still the party of racism and riding the backs of the oppressed, whom they intend to keep that way.
    Case in point DETROIT

  322. avatar
    tfb April 18, 2010 at 6:06 am #

    misha, I watch foreigner Obama destroy the country as can anyone, and only enemies of the USA would want to promote him (you).
    “He (Obama) has, inside of a year, destroyed our alliances, abandoned our allies, nationalized banks, insurance companies, the automotive business and rammed communist healthcare down our collective throats.He has bankrupted this country and stolen the wealth of our nation and our children. He has embraced Islamic anti-semitism, sanctioned the Islamic bomb of the Iranian mullahcracy, handed Russia Eastern Europe on a plate, threw away our nuclear advantage, and despised us for our superiority. And then contemptuously told us to thank him and kiss his marxist ass.

    Now he is going to nationalize Wall Street. Another government takeover euphemistically packaged as “reform” which, like healthcare, actually means rout. All those asshat Wall Streeters that supported this dangerous usurper are going to get their ass, the future and their dreams handed to them in a pile of steaming……..

    He is taking it all over. It doesn’t matter how destructive, how chaotic his plan is – the objective is …. seize control and then move on and seize control of the next sector. No time spent looking at the problems he has created or the terrible reverbs of what he has wrought. ” Atlas Shrugs

  323. avatar
    tfb April 18, 2010 at 6:07 am #

    Fine, at least you admit it. Now take ownership for the EPIC FAIL that is communism, which brings forth nothing but slaughter, evil, oppression and misery.

  324. avatar
    tfb April 18, 2010 at 6:20 am #

    I should have known since Libbies need Rulebook for Anencephalics to guide their revolutions, that the concept of “nation-ties” would be too abstract.
    Will try to avoid gray areas in future for sake of Lib-comprehension.

  325. avatar
    G April 18, 2010 at 4:08 pm #

    Lone since done. Here’s your paper:

    http://factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

    Igor needs to get with the program. This info has been around since 2008.

  326. avatar
    G April 18, 2010 at 4:09 pm #

    You make no sense. You sound like nothing but a loony ranting off. Go back to talking to the voices in your head.

  327. avatar
    68Truthseeker April 18, 2010 at 5:05 pm #

    Dr. Alan Keyes delivers the keynote speech at the Dayton,OH tea party convention to an audience of about 8,000 on 4-13-10

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UmNlnPUo5Q

  328. avatar
    SFJeff April 18, 2010 at 10:09 pm #

    “Do you people not have anything else to do.”

    See this is what I wonder about Birthers. We supporters of the Constitution- call us true Patriots- are satisfied that a President elected by a majority of voters, elected by the Electoral College and confirmed by Congress is our legitimate President and I for one just get annoyed when folks try to overthrow our government through a judicial coupe.

    Anyway- we don’t have to do anything. The President is the President until his term expires or he is impeached. We just enjoy discrediting the lies and innuendo.

  329. avatar
    G April 18, 2010 at 11:46 pm #

    Bravo SFJeff! Well said and I concur completely!

  330. avatar
    mimi April 28, 2010 at 10:49 am #

    I don’t know if this was posted over here, Doc.

    PJ-er Vince: “I took a look at that Albany Law Journal in google books. The journal itself printed a rebuttal to Morse in very short order:…”

    http://www.politijab.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=163&start=25#p132727

  331. avatar
    DraggingCanoe April 30, 2010 at 8:08 pm #

    One example..he stopped building the fence on the borders just to get votes..we know of one person kiled because of Obama’s actions..

    1. He did not protect life.

    2. He did not protect property.

    Obama is trading life for votes.

    3. Redistribution of wealth.

    Caesar tried it..and Cicero debated against the plan and won the argument, saying it was a form of tyranny.

    Redistribution of wealth purpose is retain power. Tyranny

    4. Subverting the fundamental laws of the US

    5. Allocating excessive funds to his home country in Kenya. FY 2011 budget $400 million to farmers.

    Foreign ties by blood rebuilding his home country. Would he do this if Kenya is not his home country.

  332. avatar
    Bob Ross April 30, 2010 at 8:19 pm #

    The fence? How much of the real fence was being built? I know we had started on a digital fence which did not work and was a complete waste of money.

    No US Laws have been subverted. Nice try.

    Do you have proof of this $400 million to kenya? Do you know how much was in the budget in 2010? How about 2009?

  333. avatar
    SFJeff May 13, 2010 at 9:02 pm #

    ah the wisdom of nojob

    “I believe the president is a phony. That’s why he is so afraid to reveal his records of anything”

    You are welcome to the believe what you want. There are people who believe the moon is made out of green cheese too.

    “You can put all the wealth in the world together and divide it equally among everyone matured enough to live on their own. After 6 months, the wealthy will become wealthy and the poor will become poorer, because the wealthy are rich in their mind and the poor are poor in their mind. It is not about the money, it is about the way a man thinks.”

    Fascinating theory. Not really shown by evidence around the world, nor by the record of wealthy people who manage to bankrupt themselves, but then again- since when do birthers rely upon facts?

  334. avatar
    Connect the dots May 13, 2010 at 10:39 pm #

    You actually believe the 9% tax rate reported in the media? A couple of issues:

    1. Social security tax is 7.5%. You’re gonna tell me that the entire REST of my taxes amount to less than 2%?
    2. If you AVERAGE the FEDERAL tax rates of all taxpayers, including the 49% who pay NO taxes, the FEDERAL tax rate might average at 9%.
    3. Socialism is when the government owns businesses that should be private entities, like auto manufacturers and banks.

    Obowmao isn’t a SOCIALIST, he is a full-fledged COMMUNIST. Raised by communists, surrounded by radicals his entire life, socialist is too soft a term for him. Steal from the rich, give to the poor.

    Try basing your arguments on FACTS for a change.

  335. avatar
    G May 14, 2010 at 12:40 am #

    tony: Quoting the CBO is a joke – they use the numbers provided by Congress, and those guys are lying bastards.Anyone who thinks the government can run something without screwing it up need to look at Social Security, Welfare, Medicare, Medicaid and the USPS.All pathetically run.And yes, if they were to go away there would be private alternatives – hell there already are.Ever hear of an IRA or 401k?Medical insurance? Fedex?

    [Content deleted, Doc.]

    Funny, nobody has a problem with the CBO, except the side that was opposed to whatever bill it scored. Sorry, the CBO’s estimates are about as good as it gets for predicting these things. [Content deleted, Doc.]

    And since 401Ks are completely dependent on the market, I know a lot of folks who are extremely nervous and unhappy every time the market is down. Quite a fickle and unreliable source there.

    FedEx? Yeah, they can do some stuff pretty well, but in general, its way more expensive to send normal packages or envelopes via them. Hard to beat 44 cent stamps to anywhere in the US or 4.95 flat rate shipping. I’m grateful for the excellent service my post office provides!

    A lot of businesses are pathetically run too. Blaming the government for everything is a tired and silly trope. In the end, they may have a bit more bureaucracy, but they actually run pretty well.

    So, go ahead and try to ask to take medicare, social security, medicaid, welfare, unemployment, etc. away… I don’t think anyone will get very far with that platform! (Reminds me of all the Tea Party folks warning the government to not touch their medicare!) LMAO! Yeah, good luck with that.

    Do those programs have flaws or areas where they definitely need to be fixed and loopholes where abuses happen. Yes, they most definitely do. Instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water, the efforts should be on addressing and fixing those problems.

  336. avatar
    G May 14, 2010 at 1:10 am #

    Mike C.: But I do have a solution, enforce the checks and balances in place and re-instate case workers in the field. Make it illegal to purchase expensive items if you are asking someone else to support you. For example my brother in-law is a cop in the LAPD, he patrols some poor areas and he tells me there is a proliferation of satellite TV antennas in those neighborhoods. I am sorry, but if you are poor and you are tapping my pocket to survive you should not have those luxuries.The same goes for illegal immigration, my solution is have the testicular fortitude to enforce the laws already in the books.The problem is that the politicians are not pushing for some simple common sense measures, thus the anger.

    Mike, I understand a lot of your frustrations and again, I appreciate the details and examples you’ve put forth here as well as being open about your background and experience. It really does help to have a more reasoned dialog and realize that when you get past the heated hyperbolic rhetoric, many folks will probably find a lot of common ground.

    I want to address your last point first: “he problem is that the politicians are not pushing for some simple common sense measures, thus the anger.”

    The anger is understandable. If you want politicians to focus on actually addressing the problems you care about, then don’t get swiped into the over anger hype and spin which is intended to distract most people and politicians from actually addressing these issues. Simple polticial games and obstructionism never fixes anything.

    You want the system to be better – narrow into the problems with some suggestions, like you are starting to do here, and push and advocate for those things, including writing or calling your representatives about them, or start an advocacy group to fix them. From your HUD background, I bet you could be really helpful in coming with ideas to help fix the system!

    On your earlier points about poor folks and “expensive items” – look, I totally understand your frustration there. However, restricting people’s freedoms to own or spend their money as they choose would be a violation of the rights and freedoms that we all enjoy. That would not be a workable nor a legal fix, to say the least.

    Once again, it is a matter of cooling down first and looking deeper into the problem – the real issue is not what they own, but where are they abusing the system to get (undeserved) money and stop those abuses. Or where are they not paying for their other bills that they owe and improve ways to make sure people can both afford and pay for what they have.

    If you fix the areas where the system is broken, stop loopholes and abuses and improve holding people accountable for their responsibilities & expenses, then it shouldn’t be anyone’s business what they choose to spend their remaining money on.

  337. avatar
    G May 14, 2010 at 2:43 am #

    Well, Mike C has mentioned problems in govt programs somewhat reasonably, while others like Tony, “Scott Brown”, etc. have just made meaningless “government can’t do anything right, medicare bad, etc” type statements ad hominem and just make snipe excuse attacks that this administration isn’t doing anything to fix problems, etc.

    Well, here’s an update (excerpt) of good news that people who actually care about wanting things improved will cheer:

    WASHINGTON (AP) — The government says it recovered $2.5 billion in overpayments for the Medicare trust fund last year as the Obama administration focused attention on fraud enforcement efforts in the health care industry.

    Investigators have new tools this year to help crack down on health care fraud, with the Justice Department and the Health and Human Services Department working cooperatively to police companies. The newly enacted Affordable Care Act is designed to lengthen prison sentences in criminal cases and the new law provides an additional $300 million over the next 10 years for stronger enforcement. It also gives the government new authority to step up oversight of companies participating in Medicare and Medicaid.

    “We’re going to attack fraud at every stage of the process,” Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said Thursday at a news conference.

    In a report released Thursday, the Justice Department and HHS say they are putting investigative resources in areas where health care fraud is especially widespread, including south Florida; Los Angeles; Houston; Detroit; New York City’s Brooklyn borough; Baton Rouge, La.; and Tampa, Fla.

    The result is a rising number of criminal prosecutions and the return of more stolen money to the government. At the same time, federal investigators are blocking unscrupulous companies from getting into government health care programs in the first place.

    Read the entire thing at:

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_HEALTH_CARE_FRAUD?SITE=CONGRA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

  338. avatar
    Scientist May 14, 2010 at 7:27 am #

    Mike C-I didm’t mean to insult you. You have to understand that there is quite a history on this board of people coming and making claims that don’t stand scrutiny. I won’t dispute that there are people who abuse the system. I believe that the much more costly abuses are those by big corporations (defense contractors, banks, etc). All abuses should be stopped, of course. Doing it is much harder than saying so. Show me one place in the world that has eliminated all corruption. Maybe Antarctica, because no one lives there except penguins (and there are probably corrupt penguins too).

    But let’s address a few specific points.

    Taxes on your phone bill-Those are excise taxes (federal and state). They are counted in all the data I and others have cited.

    Let’s look at total federal revenues as a % of GDP. This is everything the feds take in from ALL sources (including corporate taxes):

    http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=205

    Right now it’s at 14.8%. This is historically low, since the average post-WW II is 18%. That’s why the deficit has ballooned. Why have revenues fallen? Simple. The recession (fewer jobs and profits) as well as the tax credits put in by both Bush and Obama to stimulate the economy.

    Now state and local taxes. Again, this is the TOTAL tax take by state and local governments (income, sales, property, excise, corporate, gasoline, etc.)

    http://www.newgeography.com/content/00754-local-and-state-tax-burden-maps

    I happen to live in one of the highest tax states (NY) so I pay 11.7%.

    Add the federal to state and local and you get about 27%. Those are the facts.

    And my personal numbers bear that out.

    I hope that helps.

  339. avatar
    Mike C. May 14, 2010 at 1:57 pm #

    Let me ask, if someone is so poor that they cannot afford the basic necessities of life and your pocket is tapped to support them, would you be OK to give them satellite TVs, cellular phones, flat screen TVs, etc.? Would you be OK with that?

    >> So you know every person in that part of LA is on some sort of government assistance? <<

    Let me narrow it down, domestic disputes are a very large of the number of calls my brother in-law answers, during his involvement he often finds out if the person is collecting public assistance and a quick look around allows him to see what luxuries they own…. a little more clear?

    Do I believe they deserve satellite TV? Heck no if they are living off someone else who gets up to work at 5:00 am and does not get to see their kids until 7:00 pm.

  340. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 14, 2010 at 2:22 pm #

    Mike C.: My friend just pointed out that he needs to show his birth certificate to rent a Cessna 17, why should the president not show his to rent the whole country?

    I’m certain that your friend could show a Hawaiian COLB to rent a Cessna 17. So what’s your point?

    PS: A COLB is not definite proof of having been born in Hawaii.

    That’s totally and completely false.

  341. avatar
    SFJeff May 14, 2010 at 2:30 pm #

    Doc is getting annoyed with us getting off topic, but in a very general sense, no I think that people who are getting general assistance should not be able to afford luxuries. And that people or corporations or companies getting government assistance should be monitored and be proving that they are meeting the requirements of that assistance.

  342. avatar
    Mike C. May 14, 2010 at 2:40 pm #

    >> I happen to live in one of the highest tax states (NY) <<

    Now I see what your problem is 😉

    Just kidding, I grew up in NJ in the town of West New York overlooking Manhattan. I saw the twin towers go up and literally saw the first one come down while I watched from Weehawken.

    I now live in CA, but I am a Jersey boy at heart.

  343. avatar
    SFJeff May 14, 2010 at 3:03 pm #

    George,

    “printed approimately 1 trillion dollars of wothless currency to bail out his buddies @ goldman sachs & others”

    Or used monetary policy to prevent the complete collapse of our economy.

    Really- I don’t care whether you like Obama’s policies or not- I disagree with you on almost everything, but what does that have to do with his eligibility?

  344. avatar
    Black Lion May 14, 2010 at 3:26 pm #

    Mike, OK, so you generalized and made an assumption. Just because someone lives in a poor neighborhood then they are on govt assistance. OK. What about a VA pension? Or SS? SSI? DO you give people on those govt assistance programs a pass? Are we talking about welfare or food stamps? There are a lot of exceptions. So to make that blanket statement is irresponsible at best.

    And on every domestic disturbance call the individual’s economic situation is going to be discussed? I highly doubt that. I think again someone is making a generalization not based on anything but their opinion. There is no way he is going to know that by looking around. That is unless the so called welfare check is lying around. Which I highly doubt.

    The bottom line is if someone is on govt assistance, unless there is fraud, what they spend their money on is not a big issue. The bigger abusers of the welfare system are corporations that get tax breaks and rent abatements to relocate to a city and not pay their fair share. Do you have an issue with that?

  345. avatar
    chufho May 29, 2010 at 5:17 am #

    Hey cowboy you have no clue,look what your boy has done now

  346. avatar
    chufho May 29, 2010 at 5:19 am #

    Obama offered Colorado Democrat Andrew Romanoff a job too to get out of a primary

  347. avatar
    E GLenn Harcsar May 30, 2010 at 11:43 am #

    Hi Dr C.

    Here’s a new one for you. Obama (and W Clinton) have conspired to cover up the job offer made to Sestak to keep him from running against Specter.

    But there’s more.

    This from the Denver post last Sept. 17 by way of the P&E.

    http://www.denverpost.com/ci_13360054?source=pkg

    WASHINGTON — Not long after news leaked last month that Andrew Romanoff was determined to make a Democratic primary run against Sen. Michael Bennet, Romanoff received an unexpected communication from one of the most powerful men in Washington.

    Jim Messina, President Barack Obama’s deputy chief of staff and a storied fixer in the White House political shop, suggested a place for Romanoff might be found in the administration and offered specific suggestions, according to several sources who described the communication to The Denver Post.

    Romanoff turned down the overture, which included mention of a job at USAID, the foreign aid agency, sources said.

    Then, the day after Romanoff formally announced his Senate bid, Obama endorsed Bennet.

    It is the kind of hardball tactics that have come to mark the White House’s willingness to shape key races across the country, in this case trying to remove a threat to a vulnerable senator by presenting his opponent a choice of silver or lead.

  348. avatar
    dunstvangeet May 30, 2010 at 2:33 pm #

    E GLenn Harcsar: Hi Dr C.Here’s a new one for you.Obama (and W Clinton) have conspired to cover up the job offer made to Sestak to keep him from running against Specter.But there’s more.This from the Denver post last Sept. 17 by way of the P&E.http://www.denverpost.com/ci_13360054?source=pkgWASHINGTON — Not long after news leaked last month that Andrew Romanoff was determined to make a Democratic primary run against Sen. Michael Bennet, Romanoff received an unexpected communication from one of the most powerful men in Washington.Jim Messina, President Barack Obama’s deputy chief of staff and a storied fixer in the White House political shop, suggested a place for Romanoff might be found in the administration and offered specific suggestions, according to several sources who described the communication to The Denver Post.Romanoff turned down the overture, which included mention of a job at USAID, the foreign aid agency, sources said.Then, the day after Romanoff formally announced his Senate bid, Obama endorsed Bennet.It is the kind of hardball tactics that have come to mark the White House’s willingness to shape key races across the country, in this case trying to remove a threat to a vulnerable senator by presenting his opponent a choice of silver or lead.

    It’s funny…

    If this is it, then you must admit that Ronald Reagan was a democracy killing fascist. After all, his White House did the exact same thing.

    Washington (AP) – Sen. S.I. Hayakawa on Wednesday spurned a Reagan Administration suggestion that if he drops out of the crowded Republican Senate Primary, the Reagan Administration would find him a job.

  349. avatar
    Bob Ross May 30, 2010 at 4:47 pm #

    SFJeff: I think the quid pro quo that Obama’s administration offered was stupid. But as far as I know it isn’t illegal and not particularly unique to his Administration or the Democratic party.To recap- I disagree with what they did, but am not shocked nor am I losing any sleep over it.

    There was no quid pro quo. In order for there to be Sestak would have had to do something in an official capacity for the administration that would be tied to his position. Getting him out of the race wouldn’t specifically benefit sestak. So this whole bit that is trumpeted by Issa is complete hogwash and has been done throughout the course of our history as a nation and is not illegal

  350. avatar
    SFJeff May 30, 2010 at 11:31 pm #

    “Moreover, factcheck demonstrated similar dishonesty when, having revised its article on John Kerry’s medals two days before WND reported that Kerry’s own book said his crew had yet to encounter enemy fire 9 days after the incident for which he received his first purple heart, it subsequently failed to update the article, which remains innocent of any mention of that glaring contradiction to this day.”

    Hmmm who would I more likely rely upon- Factcheck or WND? Which has more credibility?

    What I really want to know is whether you have read Kerry’s book and whether that contradiction actually exists, and whether it exists in context? Have you gone to the actual source?

    By the way- your continued insistance that Factcheck was dishonest in reporting Obama’s BC is just makes you less and less credible. By any reasonable persons standard, Factcheck was very clear and appears to me to be accurate.

    They reviewed the original copy of the certificate of live birth issued by Hawaii. They confirmed it was original. They confirmed the form would be acceptable to apply for a passport or a drivers license.

    And the voters also felt comfortable with this. Hence they elected Obama by a large majority.

    Oh well, I can see nothing we will say on this will budge you on your faith that Factcheck wasn’t accurate, so its pretty much like arguing relgious faith at this point. You are convinced your faith is genuine and we aren’t going to disuade you from the faith of your convictions. Enjoy the next 6 years.

  351. avatar
    SFJeff May 31, 2010 at 2:12 am #

    By the way- the mention by Yguy about Kerry reminded me of something else that always sticks in my craw- why do Republicans hate politicians that are combat vets? Look how they turned on McCain, Kerry, Mirtha. I would love to say this is done by both parties but face it- the Rebublicans are the ones that claim the cloak of being the party that is Pro-Military but if a Vet happens to voice a philosophy that doesn’t mesh with the Party, they will throw him under the bus as if he was some liberal hippy.

  352. avatar
    E GLenn Harcsar May 31, 2010 at 11:23 am #

    Hey: I’m not arguing that this isn’t politics as usual. I’m just asking Dr C if there is a clear conspiracy within this administration to cover up the crime.

    If I remember correctly, was it the plumbers or the tapes that took Nixon (R) out?

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/sestak-was-ineligible-for-job-clinton-offered-95167459.html

    “Sestak was ineligible for job Clinton offered
    By: Byron York
    Chief Political Correspondent
    05/29/10 12:52 AM EDT

    In a little-noticed passage Friday, the New York Times reported that Rep. Joe Sestak was not eligible for a place on the President’s Intelligence Advisory Board, the job he was reportedly offered by former President Bill Clinton. And indeed a look at the Board’s website reveals this restriction:

    The Board consists of not more than 16 members appointed by the President from among individuals who are not employed by the Federal Government. Members are distinguished citizens selected from the national security, political, academic, and private sectors.

    As a sitting member of Congress, Sestak was not eligible for the job. And since the White House intended for Sestak to remain in his House seat, he would not have been eligible for the board after this November’s elections, provided he was re-elected to the House.”

    We all seem to agree that a “job” was offered. Now let’s agree that the test for political credibility should at least be technical plausibility.

    I’ll wait on this issue for more news.

  353. avatar
    Slartibartfast May 31, 2010 at 12:15 pm #

    E GLenn Harcsar: The Board consists of not more than 16 members appointed by the President from among individuals who are not employed by the Federal Government.

    Does anyone know what ’employed by the Federal Government’ means in this context? i.e. was Sestak employed by the Federal Government or was he PART of the Federal Government?

  354. avatar
    yguy May 31, 2010 at 1:31 pm #

    Rickey:
    First of all, it is not “Kerry’s book.”

    I stand corrected on that, but it was written with Kerry’s cooperation.

    Kerry never claimed that his crew was shot at during the incident which earned him his first Purple Heart.

    It doesn’t matter what he claimed, other than the calim implicit in accepting the PH.

    Kerry was struck by a piece of shrapnel in the left arm, but the shrapnel almost certainly came from friendly fire. Not that it matters – the Purple Heart is awarded for any wound in combat, regardless of its source.

    How the hell can you be wounded in combat by friendly fire when there isn’t any enemy fire?

  355. avatar
    SFJeff May 31, 2010 at 2:26 pm #

    “I stand corrected on that, but it was written with Kerry’s cooperation.”

    Another example of you failing to do your own research.

    “It doesn’t matter what he claimed, other than the calim implicit in accepting the PH.”

    huh? Please this is Memorial Day- take the time to read up about the Purple Heart Medal before you comment further. The claim implicit in accepting was that he was wounded while in combat.

    “How the hell can you be wounded in combat by friendly fire when there isn’t any enemy fire?”

    Maybe you should do some reading of military histories then.

    I am not sure what your point is supposed to be- that Kerry was eligible for a Purple Heart but shouldn’t have accepted it because the enemy didn’t fire back?

    Did you even read the Factcheck article? Kerry received three Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star. The official records support his actions as meritorious, yet you defame the man on Memorial Day by saying that he didnt’ deserve his Purple Heart?

    John Kerry volunteered to go to Vietnam, unlike either Clinton or Bush, was in combat and served with honor.

    As usual, you see weeds but can’t see the garden. Factcheck was debunking multiple slanderous claims about John Kerry, and you can only see what you perceive as an inconsistancy.

    Got to go now. There is a Memorial service at the Presidio Cemetary. Need to go remember those who died for our country- even those who were only killed by friendly fire.

  356. avatar
    Rickey May 31, 2010 at 2:58 pm #

    yguy:

    It doesn’t matter what he claimed, other than the calim implicit in accepting the PH.

    You obviously never served in the military. There is no “implicit claim” in accepting the Purple Heart, other than the claim (true, in Kerry’s case) of being wounded. It is irrelevant whether the wound comes from enemy fire or friendly fire. The fact is that Kerry never hinted, suggested or implied that he was hit by enemy fire. The fact that you don’t understand the rules for being awarded the Purple Heart likewise is irrelevant. The rules state that “individuals wounded or killed as a result of ‘friendly fire’ in the ‘heat of battle’ will be awarded the Purple Heart as long as the “friendly” projectile or agent was released with the full intent of inflicting damage or destroying enemy troops or equipment.” Under those rules, there is no doubt that Kerry’s wound qualified.

    How the hell can you be wounded in combat by friendly fire when there isn’t any enemy fire?

    Again, your ignorance is striking. It happens all the time. If a soldier is struck by friendly shrapnel during a bombardment, even if the enemy is not shooting back, the soldier is entitled to a Purple Heart. In Kerry’s case, his men opened fire upon the enemy and the enemy fled instead of firing back. Kerry was wounded and he deservedly was awarded a Purple Heart.

    When questions were raised by Judicial Watch in 2004, the inspector general of the Navy, Vice Adm. R.A. Route, reviewed Kerry’s medals and concluded, “”Our examination found that existing documentation regarding the Silver Star, Bronze Star and Purple Heart medals indicates the awards approval process was properly followed, In particular, the senior officers who awarded the medals were properly delegated authority to do so. In addition, we found that they correctly followed the procedures in place at the time for approving these awards.”

    End of story. Feel free to apologize to Kerry.

  357. avatar
    yguy May 31, 2010 at 6:06 pm #

    Rickey:
    There is no “implicit claim” in accepting the Purple Heart, other than the claim (true, in Kerry’s case) of being wounded.

    You cannot help but know this is baloney, seeing you yourself quoted the regulation that says the wound must be acquired in the “heat of battle”.

    It is irrelevant whether the wound comes from enemy fire or friendly fire.

    I know that.

    In Kerry’s case, his men opened fire upon the enemy and the enemy fled instead of firing back.

    Then how were they in the “heat of battle”, when your own account reveals no evidence even of credible and imminent threats to his crew?

    Feel free to apologize to Kerry.

    Seeing he’s a traitor to this country, I’ll pass.

  358. avatar
    SFJeff May 31, 2010 at 8:22 pm #

    “Then how were they in the “heat of battle”, when your own account reveals no evidence even of credible and imminent threats to his crew?”

    Again, you should read some military history. There is no way I can put this other than to say you are ignorant.

    “Seeing he’s a traitor to this country, I’ll pass.”

    And this is beyond the pale. On Memorial Day to be calling a combat veteran a traitor is about as unpatriotic as I can think of. I will thank Doc for keeping me from dispariging you personally, but I think I can safely say this- John Kerry volunteered for combat- what have you done?

  359. avatar
    Rickey May 31, 2010 at 8:26 pm #

    yguy:

    Then how were they in the “heat of battle”, when your own account reveals no evidence even of credible and imminent threats to his crew?

    One of the most consistent characteristics of birthers is the utter inability to ever admit being wrong. You obvious lack of military experience is evident when you say that you don’t believe that opening fire on the enemy constitutes combat. By your definition, most of the bombing missions which were flown from the aircraft carrier I was on in 1969 and 1970 weren’t combat missions, because the planes weren’t fired upon. I’m sure that the pilots who flew those missions would be happy to take that up with you. (In case anyone is wondering, in 1969 and 1970 the Navy was not bombing North Vietnam and most of the bombing targets were supply lines in South Vietnam and along the Ho Chi Minh Trail,)

    As for imminent threats, if you had served in Vietnam you would know that enemy boats often were booby-trapped and were always considered credible and imminent threats.

    Seeing he’s a traitor to this country, I’ll pass.

    Comments like that are illustrative of why having a discussion with you is a waste of time. Kerry didn’t have to go to Vietnam – he voluntarily enlisted, and then he volunteered for swift boat duty. Tell me, yguy – what have you done for your country? Apart from shooting off your mouth, my guess is nothing.

  360. avatar
    SFJeff May 31, 2010 at 8:31 pm #

    Yguy, after the libel of John Kerry and your abject refusal to accept anything any reasonable person would could accept, I am through with you.

    I have said it before, but you really exist in a very different world than one the rest of America. You accept the flimsiest of innuendo as proof, and reject official documents and official statements. I find myself disputing your points because they are so blatently wrong, but its pointless because you stand by your position regardless of the facts.

    So I will just point out one more time- President Obama is our legally elected President and doesn’t owe you Yguy anything other than his commitment to do the best he can do as President of the United States.

  361. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 31, 2010 at 10:20 pm #

    Just so you know, off topic posts on this blog are moved to the Great Mother of all Off Topic Dumps, an article just for off-topic comments.

  362. avatar
    Bob Ross May 31, 2010 at 10:51 pm #

    yguy:
    You cannot help but know this is baloney, seeing you yourself quoted the regulation that says the wound must be acquired in the “heat of battle”.
    I know that.
    Then how were they in the “heat of battle”, when your own account reveals no evidence even of credible and imminent threats to his crew?
    Seeing he’s a traitor to this country, I’ll pass.

    Easy to call a war hero a traitor while you sit behind your keyboard making up stories. Kerry fought for his convictions.

  363. avatar
    yguy June 1, 2010 at 10:34 am #

    Rickey:
    One of the most consistent characteristics of birthers is the utter inability to ever admit being wrong.

    Before I can admit I’m wrong, I have to be shown I’m wrong. That hasn’t happened yet.

    You obvious lack of military experience is evident when you say that you don’t believe that opening fire on the enemy constitutes combat.

    I never said that; and neither, by your account, is that what Kerry did.

    As for imminent threats, if you had served in Vietnam you would know that enemy boats often were booby-trapped and were always considered credible and imminent threats.

    That’s all well and good as far as rules of engagement are concerned; but as far as the PH is concerned the question is whether Kerry actually WAS in the “heat of battle”, not whether he had reason to think his crew was in danger at the time.

    he voluntarily enlisted

    So did Benedict Arnold, who was a better soldier than Kerry ever thought of being, and who at least had the decency to live the remainder of his life in bitter remorse over his treason rather than build a political career on it.

  364. avatar
    Rickey June 1, 2010 at 1:04 pm #

    yguy:
    Before I can admit I’m wrong, I have to be shown I’m wrong. That hasn’t happened yet.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Thanks for the best laugh of the day, so far.

    I never said that; and neither, by your account, is that what Kerry did.

    Kerry came upon suspected VC who were unloading boats in the middle of the night at a river crossing where enemy activity was known to take place. That’s why they were patrolling the area! It was a free-fire zone, so Kerry ordered his men to open fire. That, by definition, is combat.

    That’s all well and good as far as rules of engagement are concerned; but as far as the PH is concerned the question is whether Kerry actually WAS in the “heat of battle”, not whether he had reason to think his crew was in danger at the time.

    Kerry met all of the requirements for a Purple Heart, as confirmed by the Navy’s Inspector General when he reviewed Kerry’s medals in 2004. If you have a problem with that, take it up with the Navy.

    So did Benedict Arnold, who was a better soldier than Kerry ever thought of being, and who at least had the decency to live the remainder of his life in bitter remorse over his treason rather than build a political career on it.

    So know John Kerry is worse than Benedict Arnold? Not only should you be ashamed of yourself, you also are displaying ignorance about the life of Arnold. There is no evidence that he lived out his life “in bitter remorse.” There is an apocryphal story that he expressed remorse on his deathbed, but most historians don’t believe it (by all accounts he was delirious during the last days of his life). After he fled he accepted the position of Brigadier General in the British Army; Following the war he attempted to obtain positions with the British government and British East India Company, but he was unsuccessful and was widely criticized in the British press as a mere mercenary. He then moved to Canada but had great business difficulties there and he returned to England in 1791. During the French Revolution he helped to organize militias on British-held islands in the West Indies.As late as 1798 he was still offering his services to the British Army and Navy. You might want to read up on it. One excellent book is “The Traitor and the Spy” by noted historian James Thomas Flexner. Another yguy fail.

  365. avatar
    Dave June 1, 2010 at 1:07 pm #

    Rickey:
    One of the most consistent characteristics of birthers is the utter inability to ever admit being wrong.

    That is a consistent characteristic, but it’s just a symptom. The disease shared by all tin-foil hat types is that their evaluation of any piece of information as true or false begins and ends with whether it supports the conclusion they started with. I really don’t get how anyone can maintain this level of irrationality, but some do. Of course, most people don’t.

  366. avatar
    Sef June 1, 2010 at 4:13 pm #

    Dave:
    That is a consistent characteristic, but it’s just a symptom. The disease shared by all tin-foil hat types is that their evaluation of any piece of information as true or false begins and ends with whether it supports the conclusion they started with. I really don’t get how anyone can maintain this level of irrationality, but some do. Of course, most people don’t.

    They probably feel that they must be extremely careful to keep up a solid front of the standard talking points or they will be savaged back in the birther blogs. Since they are spouting what others have said an admission of error would be an admission that there might be something wrong with the whole house of cards.

  367. avatar
    yguy June 1, 2010 at 4:25 pm #

    Rickey:
    Kerry came upon suspected VCwho were unloading boats in the middle of the night at a river crossing where enemy activity was known to take place. That’s why they were patrolling the area! It was a free-fire zone, so Kerry ordered his men to open fire. That, by definition, is combat.

    Not by this definition, it isn’t:

    –noun
    3.
    Military. active, armed fighting with enemy forces.

    So []now John Kerry is worse than Benedict Arnold?

    Congratulations on your reading comprehension.

  368. avatar
    SFJeff June 1, 2010 at 5:01 pm #

    Once again Yguy shows his complete inability to accept how the regulations read and how they are actually interpreted by the people who matter.

    I found a really good website: http://www.americanwarlibrary.com/theheart.htm

    But Yguy will continue spouting about what he thinks the Purple Heart really means, and how it really should be applied, and ignore the inconvenient facts.

    And continue to slander a veteran who volunteered for combat duty.

  369. avatar
    Rickey June 1, 2010 at 5:20 pm #

    SFJeff: Once again Yguy shows his complete inability to accept how the regulations read and how they are actually interpreted by the people who matter.

    And you’ll notice that he never responded when I challenged him to tell us what he has done for his country.

  370. avatar
    Rickey June 1, 2010 at 5:43 pm #

    yguy:
    Not by this definition, it isn’t:

    Firing upon the enemy is combat. It doesn’t matter if the enemy chooses to run instead of firing back.

    But I wouldn’t expect you to understand that.

  371. avatar
    Bovril June 1, 2010 at 6:43 pm #

    For those of us who HAVE been in the heat, combat is that moment when you need to but daren’t shit yourself.

    You may fire, you may be fired upon, you may be at the FEBA or sleeping in your maggot in the rear when the brown and smelly hits the fan.

    So Yguy unless you’ve been at the fucking sharp end don’t you dare comment on what or is not “combat” in your opinion.

  372. avatar
    G June 2, 2010 at 4:12 pm #

    Adam:
    Well, I can only speak for myself. If I could, I’d do the following:1) Repeal Obamacare. Replace it with something like what Professor Cochrane of the University of Chicago has proposed.2) Raise the retirement age to 703) Means tests social security and medicare for anyone under the age of 50 (i.e. turn them into a welfare program for the poor)4) Cut public sector pensions whenever possible5) Bust public sector unions whenever possible6) Implement a VAT alongside some (but not totally offsetting) cuts to corporate and individual income taxesSomething like the above will be necessary to prevent our country from going bankrupt.Will all be achieveable immediately? No. But some of the above provisions could garner support in 2012 if the fiscal situation looks dire, which it will.Right now, provisions 4 & 5 are quite popular. Provision 2, I think, could garner support, so long as it is phased in gradually.
    I think Larry Summers is correct in his prediction that provision 6 will eventually garner bipartisan support. Probably not by 2012, but soon thereafter as politicians on both sides will be desperate for additional revenue.
    Provision 3 probably won’t get much support in 2012. However, it will gain popularity with time as social security and medicare start to run massive deficits. By 2018, I suspect the idea that everyone should get them will become politically indefensible.To those of you who think Obamacare will actually cut the deficit, or that Obama will balance the budget, you delude yourself. Cite the gamed CBO score all you want, but by 2012, it will be an obvious fiscal bomb.
    Don’t believe me? Fine. Let’s wait two years and see who’s right!

    Adam, I may not necessarily share, support, or agree with all of your ideas, but I applaud you for actually having ideas and presenting them. That is an important first step to being serious about our future.

    I think we all realize that we live in a world where a lot of major problems have been left unaddressed for far too long and that if we wish to get serious about fixing them, some difficult discussions and hard choices will need to be made.

    The worst one can do is to just sit on the sidelines and play obstructionist politics to try and do nothing or to merely attack others for trying to address problems, hoping to maintain the “status quo”.

    The systemic problems our nation is faced with will not go away on their their own and will only continue to deteriorate and require even more severe corrective action the longer we dither and distract from addressing them.

  373. avatar
    testy abochow June 14, 2010 at 5:57 pm #

    Rickey: How about compulsory auto insurance? Is that Socialism? Should young drivers be allowed to go without auto insurance because they can’t afford it?

    there is NO cumpulsory auto insurance.. no one mandates you purchase a car either.. you are NOT mandated to get a Frikin drivers license..

    IF you CHOOSE to get a licence, buy your own vehicle, and register it… AND LASTLY, if you choose to drive said vehicle you chose to purchase ON A GOVT/PUBLIC ROAD…

    ONLY THEN do you need to have insurance..

    If you want to do all the above, but own 100 acres with private farm roads on them, you have NO legal requirement even today to have insurance on any vehicle in that case.

    There are a minimum of four affirmative decisions you have to personally choose to engage in, BEFORE there is any obligation that you must have auto insurance, and the ONLY AUTO INS mandates come from STATE LAWS (New Hampshire and Wisconsin do not even today mandate auto ins.),
    as the states do have such jurisdiction on their roads, while the federal govt has no ability to compel, it can only withhold federal funds.

    So.. auto insurance required only by STATE laws, for people who choose the accept such a burden..
    has no even distant similarity to the Federal Govt requiring private citizens to purchase from PRIVATE companies, simply due to being alive.

  374. avatar
    richCares June 14, 2010 at 6:20 pm #

    “…is a Muslim, not a “committed Christian…”
    Making stuff up is easy in berferland, it gets the paypal button clicking. The birferland motto is “gobble the poop”. People like James and john just eat this poop up. James hasn’t heard this one yet, he is still touting the Tim Adam’s story. But just wait, he will be on this, he has a large appetite for poop.
    .

  375. avatar
    SFJeff June 14, 2010 at 8:00 pm #

    “has no even distant similarity to the Federal Govt requiring private citizens to purchase from PRIVATE companies, simply due to being alive.”

    True- real socialism is like Social Security, which all of us are compelled to participate in with the Government.

    Clearly since this requires us to buy from private companies, its actually government mandated capitalism.

  376. avatar
    G June 19, 2010 at 1:49 am #

    E GLenn Harcsar: Hi Dr C.I don’t know if you are on the methane gas issue.Missing Afghani pilots, missingdrone subs capable of delivering explosives, Gulf Sea floor rising. Taliban promise to hit by July.The birther crap is fun and games for the uninitiatedto the sociopathology that enables/drives some both within and without. Obama is below 42% He needs something bigger thanBC/NBC , Man’s Country, and Blago. These DOTS Ireally don’t like to connect. Please read around.http://69.84.25.250/blogger/post/BP-Tells-Cleanup-Workers-Theye28099ll-Be-Fired-If-They-Wear-Respirators.aspx

    I’m really not sure where you are going with this. For such a short paragraph of commentary, it really comes across extremely rambling and incoherent.

    The article is in regards to BP and their actions towards people they themselves hire – resulting in inappropriate terminations by BP of same, because said people would like to protect their own health and BP would rather try to continue to portray a “rosier than reality situation” instead of care about its own workers.

    Yes, I agree that BP’s actions are disgusting and reprehensible, but such have nothing to do with the topics on this forum.

    Nor do they have any meaningful connection to Obama. Poll numbers are understandably down. You can make a correlation to the economy and as of yet, insufficiently effective solutions to the oil crisis & cleanup efforts in the gulf, but there is no direct correlation to BP’s internal actions and bad behaviors.

    So yeah, nice try to paint some overly broad brush and shift blame away from BP, but you failed. Same with Blago. Blago’s responsible for his own bad behaviors.

    Speaking of sociopathology, the only one I see on display is your personal hate-based biases against this president driving you to blindly blame him for everything wrong in this world. I really found such similar BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome) pathetically annoying, when folks starting claiming that every bad thing in the world, from the weather to their dog dying on Bush.

    I find it even more pathetic and more annoying the clear ODS (Obama Derangement Syndrome) that folks such as you have so quickly adopted. Seek help for your personal problems and anger management issues. Maybe it makes you feel good to have a simplistic notion of “bogeymen” to blame all the problems of the world on, but it is neither realistic nor healthy.

  377. avatar
    Jules June 19, 2010 at 6:59 am #

    I agree with Daniel that misha’s statement that marriage between people of different religions is “illegal” in Israel is misleading. However, the absence of civil marriage ceremonies in Israeli law is unquestionably the result of the ultra-religious parties using their status as coalition partners to prevent Israel from enacting sensible laws that the overwhelming majority of Israelis want.

    Israel has never had a law to allow civil marriage ceremonies in the country. The result is that people who wish to marry must go to their respective religious bodies to marry. Couples who are of different religions face the choice of having one convert or having the wedding outside Israel. Once the couple is validly married under the laws of a foreign country, they are recognised as a married couple under Israeli law. This applies to a Muslim marrying a Hindu as well as a Jew marrying a Christian.

    There is also the complicating factor that the Israeli government assumes that any Jewish religious wedding performed within its borders must be done in an Orthodox synagogue to be a Jewish wedding. This is again due to the political influence of the ultra-Orthodox to override the desire of the secular Jewish majority. Jewish couples who want to get married in Israel must do it in an Orthodox synagogue. If they want their wedding in a Conservative or Reform synagogue, they have to go to such a synagogue abroad.

    Interestingly, the status of couples of different religions in Israel is exactly the same as that of same-sex couples in New York. Same-sex couples cannot have wedding ceremonies within New York that will have any legal force or effect. However, if they get married in such jurisdictions as Connecticut, Canada, or Massachusetts, then their marriage certificates from those jurisdictions will be recognised in New York as having created a valid marriage. (Similarly, same-sex couples who get married in Canada will be regarded as a married couple under Israeli law even though same-sex weddings performed within Israel cannot create legal marriages.)

    The voters who gave Shinui 15 Knesset seats in the 2003 election were generally very upset about the role that the religious community had over the laws of Israel and wanted a civil marriage law. However, Shinui was hopelessly ineffective in getting any of its policies enacted and the National Religious Party and United Torah Judaism kept anything from being done. Shinui went on to lose all its seats in the 2006 election and has all but ceased to exist.

  378. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny June 19, 2010 at 8:18 am #

    misha: Paul: Did you see that Moldavian woman on p 29? I thought she looked like Orly (’s mother)There is a resemblance, but it’s not her mother.When I wrote that I was thinking:-an abundance of natural resources-no threat of war on a daily basis-did you know there are not any mailboxes in Israel? Guess why.-the campaign for unrestricted immigration to Israel was a smashing success. Unfortunately, Israel got the Russian mob along with the mass immigration, as well as street thugs like Avigdor Lieberman. That’s right, folks. Lieberman was a bouncer. And he’s from Moldova, just like dear Orly. Birds of a feather.-Israel doesn’t like to talk about it, but there is a lot of emmigration to places like Costa Rica. You don’t have to worry about every package. There’s one section of Rockville, Maryland with so many Israelis, it’s called The Kibbutz.-wealthy Israelis own second homes on Cyprus. Guess why.-in Israel, it is illegal for a Jew to marry a non-Jew. Travel agents are rolling in money from marriage tours to Cyprus. And Cypriot hotel owners are doing a land office killing.Here’s my Russian heritage: http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2010/02/forward.html

    Ha! There are many wealthy Jews from Georgia, Moldova and Odessa living in the sooper-secure villas of Rublyovka, part of Barvikha, which is the sooper-wealthy residential part of Moscow (yes, that is in Russia) They all claim to actually live in the US or Israel and just be on an eleven and a half month a year holiday. Just like in the Uzbek-Azerbaijani part of Moscow, census takers are not welcome there (the population total for Moscow is a hopeless underestimate).

    Two paradoxes about Rublyovka: Zhirinovsky also lives and gets elected there (well, the Jews do not vote, not that it would make a difference) and the private militia who guard the area may have as their primary purpose to keep the area Muslimfrei (and free of journalists, census takers and taxmen) are mostly Chechens. Wikipedia has an article on Barvikha which however, does not tell the entire story.

    When The Nanny was transported to Russian TV, the makers hit on the idea of localizing it by turning the Russian Fran Drescher into an “immigrant” from Odessa, with a clear allusion to a partly Jewish background and an awful Ukrainian accent. The Jewish connection was dropped when it turned out the Russian viewers associated Vika’s roots not with the poor Jews of 1930s Odessa, but with rich arrogant Rublyovka. In the American Nanny, the gag is that the family gradually gets transformed into a Jewish family, but the Russian Nyanya Odessizes her family, with the children starting to pronounce the “g” as a soft fricative. Here Vika is dancing with her employer: an Argentine tango in the Odessa way to the tune of a song that is not even Russian tango:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6m6ZTelwos&feature=related
    Did you know Pyotr Leshchenko, famous for the Argentine tango song “Serdtse” was from Odessa and later landed up on the Romamian side of the border between the Soviet Union and then Romanian Moldavia? The Ukrainianization has the butler singing Serdtse while preparing breakfast.

  379. avatar
    aarrgghh June 19, 2010 at 9:09 am #

    Daniel: It is NOT “de facto” illegal.In order to be illegal there has to be a law which forbids it. There is no law in Israel which forbids mixed faith marriages, there is simply no way to obtain one. No ability to obtain does not equate to illegal, it only equates to not obtainable.It is not illegal for me to possess unicorn fingers…. there just is no way for me to obtain them.

    just getting in my two shekels, for the record. i have to side with misha on this one. if there does not exist a law on the books which forbids an act that is nonetheless impossible or inordinately difficult to perform, then that act is “de facto” illegal. but if such a prohibition does exist, then that act is “in facto” illegal (pun intended).

    therefore, since there appears to be in israel no prohibition forbidding mixed marriages, which are nonetheless impossible or inordinately difficult to perform, then those marriages are “de facto” illegal.

  380. avatar
    Rickey June 19, 2010 at 1:01 pm #

    G:
    Poll numbers are understandably down.

    Actually, in five of the six major polls released thus far this month, Obama’s job approval rating is 50% or above.

    http://pollingreport.com/obama_job.htm

    His favorability rating in a Pew poll published this week is 57%.

  381. avatar
    Expelliarmus June 19, 2010 at 2:43 pm #

    aarrgghh: just getting in my two shekels, for the record. i have to side with misha on this one. if there does not exist a law on the books which forbids an act that is nonetheless impossible or inordinately difficult to perform, then that act is “de facto” illegal. but if such a prohibition does exist, then that act is “in facto” illegal (pun intended).

    Actually, the terms you are looking for are “de facto” and “de jure”. De jure= arises by operation of law.

    If there was a law in Israel forbidding interfaith marriage, then it would be illegal, “de jure”.

    Under the existing circumstances, it is “de facto” illegal. De facto = arises by operation of fact.

    The only distinction I might draw is that in Israel, it is de facto illegal to get married to someone of a different faith, but it is not in any way illegal to be married to someone of another faith, because the law recognizes civil marriages performed elsewhere.

  382. avatar
    Rick A Hyatt June 20, 2010 at 5:04 pm #

    I guess I’m going to shock and maybe disappoint you all with the true explanation of it all: I’ve lived an entire life of espionage because of who my biological father was, former East German STASI (CIA) General Markus Wolf. Gen. Wolf, a master of documentation, Legends, and life-long “Manchurian Candidate” agent running was turned by the CIA in 1977, and wanted to go down in history as having “Perfected the use of sex as an espionage tool.”
    He did.
    The only thing is that he brought his ring of spies with him: Markus Wolf is also Barry Soetono’s father, and his mother, a black Indonesian. Hence, you have all the mumbo-jumbo about the COLB, college “Records,” etc., along with the fact that such means The Great 0 also has the genetically based Celiac’s Disease, which dumbs one down when symptomatic (Like not being able to give a coherent speach without a teleprompter).
    So, the CIA’s counter-run 0 and preempted all the agendas to Socialism; soon he will simply implode.
    Go to my website to see who my other half-siblings are, and where they are in politics and espionage. http://www.rickhyatt.freeservers.com

  383. avatar
    Rick A Hyatt June 20, 2010 at 7:11 pm #

    Yeah, if you don’t like the bad news, kill the messenger. Typical Democ-rat methodology when they can’t win the argument nor don’t like seeing their Utopian dreams come true.
    If you want more interesting news, google my name and Gary Condit. If you come up with my Picasa Albulm, “Gary Condit’s long list of victims and I’ve known many of them,” you won’t like what you see there, either.
    It’s been, as I said, a LIFE LONG of espionage for me, because of who my father is. And of course, you may see our “Family Photo” as the lead photo at my website.
    I know these days one can do a lot with images on computer, but I hold in my own personal possession these and other original photos. Besides, I don’t know how to do that stuff.
    Been there, done that – All’s you have are insults. You must be with ACORN, I take it? Or do they pay $.25 per propaganda insult, like the Red Chinese do their cyber-agents?

  384. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 20, 2010 at 7:44 pm #

    Rick A Hyatt: Yeah, if you don’t like the bad news, kill the messenger. Typical Democ-rat methodology when they can’t win the argument nor don’t like seeing their Utopian dreams come true.
    If you want more interesting news, google my name and Gary Condit.If you come up with my Picasa Albulm, “Gary Condit’s long list of victims and I’ve known many of them,” you won’t like what you see there, either.
    It’s been, as I said, a LIFE LONG of espionage for me, because of who my father is.And of course, you may see our “Family Photo” as the lead photo at my website.
    I know these days one can do a lot with images on computer, but I hold in my own personal possession these and other original photos.Besides, I don’t know how to do that stuff.
    Been there, done that – All’s you have are insults.You must be with ACORN, I take it?Or do they pay $.25 per propaganda insult, like the Red Chinese do their cyber-agents?

    What the hell are you on about? This site has nothing to do with espionage, acorn, cyber-agents, the chinese, or utopias.

  385. avatar
    sfjeff June 25, 2010 at 2:22 pm #

    The funny thing about this is that PJ apparently doesn’t realize that the strategy McChrystal has been employing is the one that he sold to President Obama. Whether that was right or wrong, will be determined by the test of time.

    Of course if President Obama hadn’t fired McChrystal, PJ would be calling the President too weak to be the Commander in Chief.

  386. avatar
    yguy June 25, 2010 at 4:40 pm #

    sfjeff: …the strategy McChrystal has been employing is the one that he sold to President Obama.

    It was McChrystal’s idea to adopt rules of engagement that put our personnel at undue risk?

  387. avatar
    sfjeff June 25, 2010 at 5:41 pm #

    “It was McChrystal’s idea to adopt rules of engagement that put our personnel at undue risk?”

    From what i understand- and I admit this is only from my observing the news, our current strategy in Afghanistan is the one formulated by McChrystal. There are some who feel it puts our military at undue risk. I think that assessing whether something is ‘undue’ risk is probably highly subjective, but whatever the risks, it is the plan that McChrystal strongly promoted to the President, and the plan that the President approved, over the objections of Joe Biden and some others.

    From this very unqualified bystanders point of view, I tend to agree with the general principles behind McChrystal’s plan.

  388. avatar
    yguy June 25, 2010 at 5:56 pm #

    sfjeff: From what i understand- and I admit this is only from my observing the news, our current strategy in Afghanistan is the one formulated by McChrystal.

    I’m asking about the ROE, not the strategy.

  389. avatar
    sfjeff June 25, 2010 at 6:34 pm #

    “I’m asking about the ROE, not the strategy.”

    Oh- I just assumed you understood that the rules of engagement are part of any strategy. Just to make it clear- the strategy that mcChrystal advocated and put into effect, included these rules of engagement:

    “Flying over terrain that has defeated invaders from the British to the Soviets, McChrystal knows he has to do more than just fine tune a strategy that after eight years of war appears on the brink of failure.

    So he has issued a new directive on counterinsurgency operations, telling his troops in writing: “We must change the way we think, act and operate.”

    Protecting the Afghan people – many of them living in impoverished villages – is now more important than killing the enemy, even if that means taking more risks.

    “The parents of kids over here can’t be too happy to hear that the commander is telling them to accept more risk,” Martin noted.

    “This is something that takes a tremendous amount of understanding. What I’m really telling people is the greatest risk we can accept is to lose the support of the people here,” McChrystal explained. “If the people are against us, we cannot be successful. If the people view us as occupiers and the enemy, we can’t be successful and our casualties will go up dramatically.”

    The rest of the story: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/24/60minutes/main5335445_page4.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody

  390. avatar
    sfjeff June 25, 2010 at 6:36 pm #

    “The rules, put in place by outgoing Gen. Stanley McChrystal, are classified but generally aim to limit civilian casualties by prohibiting troops from firing unless they’re shot at — or from launching bomb or artillery attacks when civilians are near the target. ”

    From Fox News

  391. avatar
    yguy June 25, 2010 at 7:23 pm #

    sfjeff: “I’m asking about the ROE, not the strategy.”Oh- I just assumed you understood that the rules of engagement are part of any strategy.

    And correctly so. I likewise assumed you understood that the part is not the whole.

    Just to make it clear- the strategy that mcChrystal advocated

    I didn’t ask what he “advocated” to some unspecified audience. I asked whether the ROE were his idea, as opposed to something he implemented on orders from his superiors and put a good face on for public consumption, or even his own.

  392. avatar
    sfjeff June 25, 2010 at 8:38 pm #

    My earlier posts seemed to have poofed. Curious.

    Marjah was offered up as a testing ground for the counter-insurgency strategy designed by Gen. McChrystal, the top coalition commander, and endorsed by President Barack Obama.

    “I asked whether the ROE were his idea, as opposed to something he implemented on orders from his superiors ”

    “Marjah was offered up as a testing ground for the counter-insurgency strategy designed by Gen. McChrystal, the top coalition commander, and endorsed by President Barack Obama.”- WSJ 5/31/2010

    “General Stanley McChrystal, the American commander of Nato Forces in Afghanistan has long argued that foreign troops need to drastically reduce civilian casualties if they are to win the support of the wider population. ” Telegraph 6/13/2010

    “McChrystal’s logic, based on core counterinsurgency doctrine, is that by safeguarding civilians and gradually winning over the population, the coalition can eventually reap the intelligence and local cooperation vital to rooting out insurgents and stabilizing an area. If winning tactical battles means killing civilians, he argues in the assessment, “we run the risk of strategic defeat.”” Washington Post 9/23

    “McChrystal said he planned to review the military’s rules of engagement and other directives in Afghanistan to ensure everything was being done to avoid civilian casualties.”The perception … caused by civilian casualties is one of the most dangerous things we face in Afghanistan, particularly with the Afghan people,” he said.” Reuters 6/3/2009

    Does all of this mean that McChrystal was the first person to ever think of the current rules of engagement? Certainly not, but from reading articles and excerpts from his confirmation hearings, the General certainly appears to have been promoting this plan as part of his overall strategy. I have seen no evidence that this policy was pushed upon McChrystal, and frankly, from the general has shown, I doubt he was lieing to Congress during his testimony.

  393. avatar
    Spike June 25, 2010 at 9:08 pm #

    OVER 700 NEWS STORIES ARE TELLING WHAT A HUGE CROOK BLOWBAMA IS!!! “Former Blagojevich chief of staff John Harris testified in federal court this week that President “Change” was

    directly involved in the attempt to secure his vacated Senate seat for long-time crony Valerie Jarrett…in

    exchange for a cabinet-level position for Blagojevich.
    This flatly contradicts everything Obama has been insisting since the beginning, as the facts usually do, and would

    make Obama guilty of perjury if it turns out to be true…presuming he told the same thing to the FBI when they

    interviewed him.
    Blagojevich’s attorneys have been trying to get access to those records, but have thus far only scored subpoenas

    for Obama advisor Rahm Emanuel.”

  394. avatar
    Spike June 25, 2010 at 9:13 pm #

    Reality Check: We damn, that cinches it. Obama was born in Kenya and will resign tomorrow. I hope he waits until after the World Cup game just in case they would interrupt the game for the big news.

    OBAMA’S BUTT IS HEADED TO FEDERAL PRISON, HE IS NOW FINISHED!!! CHICAGO—An ex-aide to former Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich testified this week that President Barack Obama knew Mr. Blagojevich wanted a plum job in the administration in exchange for appointing a politically palatable person to fill Mr. Obama’s vacated Senate seat.

    John Harris, Mr. Blagojevich’s former chief of staff, testified in the ex-governor’s corruption trial in federal District Court here this week that Mr. Obama was aware Mr. Blagojevich was working to leverage the Senate seat into a cabinet position for himself.

    ROD BLAGOJEVICH

    He also said Mr. Blagojevich believed that if he appointed to the Senate Mr. Obama’s longtime friend Valerie Jarrett, Mr. Blagojevich would get a top job. Ms. Jarrett had been working on the Obama presidential campaign before accepting her current position as a senior White House advisor.

    “The president understands that the governor would be willing to make the appointment of Valerie Jarrett as long as he gets what he’s asked for,” Mr. Harris told the court Wednesday.

    The White House declined to comment Thursday on testimony regarding Mr. Obama and Ms. Jarrett. Mr. Blagojevich’s attorneys will cross-examine Mr. Harris next week.

    In court filings, Mr. Blagojevich’s defense team asked presiding Judge James B. Zagel to order the government to hand over interviews the Federal Bureau of Investigation “conducted with President Obama regarding this case.”

    The defense team’s filings said that, contrary to White House statements, Mr. Obama had “direct knowledge and communication with emissaries and others regarding the appointment to his Senate seat.”

  395. avatar
    Spike June 25, 2010 at 9:18 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Heh, yes, Orly most definitely not attempt to serve Obama on Inauguration day as she claims. Of course in her world, maybe Inauguration day is in February?I appreciate your visit and participation here.

    OBAMA IS FINISHED, HE’S GOING TO BE PROSECUTED FOR PERJURY AND OTHER CRIMES : CHICAGO—An ex-aide to former Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich testified this week that President Barack Obama knew Mr. Blagojevich wanted a plum job in the administration in exchange for appointing a politically palatable person to fill Mr. Obama’s vacated Senate seat.

    John Harris, Mr. Blagojevich’s former chief of staff, testified in the ex-governor’s corruption trial in federal District Court here this week that Mr. Obama was aware Mr. Blagojevich was working to leverage the Senate seat into a cabinet position for himself.

    ROD BLAGOJEVICH

    He also said Mr. Blagojevich believed that if he appointed to the Senate Mr. Obama’s longtime friend Valerie Jarrett, Mr. Blagojevich would get a top job. Ms. Jarrett had been working on the Obama presidential campaign before accepting her current position as a senior White House advisor.

    “The president understands that the governor would be willing to make the appointment of Valerie Jarrett as long as he gets what he’s asked for,” Mr. Harris told the court Wednesday.

    The White House declined to comment Thursday on testimony regarding Mr. Obama and Ms. Jarrett. Mr. Blagojevich’s attorneys will cross-examine Mr. Harris next week.

    In court filings, Mr. Blagojevich’s defense team asked presiding Judge James B. Zagel to order the government to hand over interviews the Federal Bureau of Investigation “conducted with President Obama regarding this case.”

    The defense team’s filings said that, contrary to White House statements, Mr. Obama had “direct knowledge and communication with emissaries and others regarding the appointment to his Senate seat.”

  396. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 25, 2010 at 9:26 pm #

    Spike: OVER 700 NEWS STORIES ARE TELLING WHAT A HUGE CROOK BLOWBAMA IS!!! “Former Blagojevich chief of staff John Harris testified in federal court this week that President “Change” was
    directly involved in the attempt to secure his vacated Senate seat for long-time crony Valerie Jarrett…in
    exchange for a cabinet-level position for Blagojevich.
    This flatly contradicts everything Obama has been insisting since the beginning, as the facts usually do, and would
    make Obama guilty of perjury if it turns out to be true…presuming he told the same thing to the FBI when they
    interviewed him.
    Blagojevich’s attorneys have been trying to get access to those records, but have thus far only scored subpoenas
    for Obama advisor Rahm Emanuel.”

    Over 700 news stories? No you have random websites non-news media that are all linking back to the newsmax article. The same article that states that even though Harris and Blogavich thought that Obama knew that Obama would only give Blogavich appreciation and not quid pro quo. Nice fail there Spike

  397. avatar
    G June 25, 2010 at 9:35 pm #

    blah, blah, blah.

    Ah, the classic C O W A R D birther SPAM tactic of finding long-outdated articles and tossing off some cut & paste irrelevant statement.

    Well, this latest one is yet another totally weak yawner… Blago trial? really?

    More much ado about nothing.

    You go birthers with your latest Obama-hating “OMG” moments. Keep that unbroken Epic Fail record you’ve got alive!

  398. avatar
    Dave June 25, 2010 at 9:38 pm #

    Spike: OVER 700 NEWS STORIES ARE TELLING WHAT A HUGE CROOK BLOWBAMA IS!!! “Former Blagojevich chief of staff John Harris testified in federal court …

    I hope the other 699 are more interesting than this one.

    But in the meantime, see if you can complete this sentence: “John Harris is a credible witness because…”

  399. avatar
    Northland10 June 25, 2010 at 10:04 pm #

    Spike: John Harris, Mr. Blagojevich’s former chief of staff, testified in the ex-governor’s corruption trial in federal District Court here this week that Mr. Obama was aware Mr. Blagojevich was working to leverage the Senate seat into a cabinet position for himself.

    Mr. Obama was aware that Blago was trying to sell the Senate seat to get a cabinet post? Most of Illinois knew Blago was trying that. The real point, instead of a Blago getting the post, he got arrested and impeached. Doesn’t look like Obama was much help to Blago.

    If it is a crime to know the Governor of Illinois is up to shady dealings, Gov. Ryan is going to have alot of new neighbors.

  400. avatar
    katahdin June 25, 2010 at 10:05 pm #

    Uh, Spike, of course President Obama “knew” that Blago wanted a Cabinet position in exchange for appointing the senator of President Obama’s choice. Blago made his wishes very clear. But this does not mean President Obama was willing to play ball. In fact, Blago’s on tape cussing President Obama up one side and down the other, because he wasn’t willing to offer Blago “anything but appreciation.”
    Like all the other right-wing fantasies, this one will lead nowhere. Because the only crook in this scenario is the one on trial.

  401. avatar
    Greg June 25, 2010 at 11:11 pm #

    Burying the lede a little, Spike, let me edit the story for you:

    John Harris, Blagojevich’s former top aide, testified …. He offered no proof of his claim.

    And, yguy,

    I asked whether the ROE were his idea, as opposed to something he implemented on orders from his superiors and put a good face on for public consumption, or even his own.

    You could try reading some things, or researching stuff. From the Rolling Stone article:

    From the start, McChrystal was determined to place his personal stamp on Afghanistan, to use it as a laboratory for a controversial military strategy known as counterinsurgency. COIN, as the theory is known, is the new gospel of the Pentagon brass, a doctrine that attempts to square the military’s preference for high-tech violence with the demands of fighting protracted wars in failed states. COIN calls for sending huge numbers of ground troops to not only destroy the enemy, but to live among the civilian population and slowly rebuild, or build from scratch, another nation’s government – a process that even its staunchest advocates admit requires years, if not decades, to achieve. The theory essentially rebrands the military, expanding its authority (and its funding) to encompass the diplomatic and political sides of warfare: Think the Green Berets as an armed Peace Corps. In 2006, after Gen. David Petraeus beta-tested the theory during his “surge” in Iraq, it quickly gained a hardcore following of think-tankers, journalists, military officers and civilian officials.

    Despite the tragedies and miscues, McChrystal has issued some of the strictest directives to avoid civilian casualties that the U.S. military has ever encountered in a war zone. It’s “insurgent math,” as he calls it – for every innocent person you kill, you create 10 new enemies. He has ordered convoys to curtail their reckless driving, put restrictions on the use of air power and severely limited night raids. He regularly apologizes to Hamid Karzai when civilians are killed, and berates commanders responsible for civilian deaths. “For a while,” says one U.S. official, “the most dangerous place to be in Afghanistan was in front of McChrystal after a ‘civ cas’ incident.” The ISAF command has even discussed ways to make not killing into something you can win an award for: There’s talk of creating a new medal for “courageous restraint,” a buzzword that’s unlikely to gain much traction in the gung-ho culture of the U.S. military.

    But however strategic they may be, McChrystal’s new marching orders have caused an intense backlash among his own troops. Being told to hold their fire, soldiers complain, puts them in greater danger. “Bottom line?” says a former Special Forces operator who has spent years in Iraq and Afghanistan. “I would love to kick McChrystal in the nuts. His rules of engagement put soldiers’ lives in even greater danger. Every real soldier will tell you the same thing.”

    “Winning hearts and minds in COIN is a coldblooded thing,” McChrystal says, citing an oft-repeated maxim that you can’t kill your way out of Afghanistan. “The Russians killed 1 million Afghans, and that didn’t work.”

    Or, to put it simply, from the HuffPost:

    Michael Hastings tells Huffington Post’s Marcus Baram in a phone interview from Afghanistan: “Over here, soldiers were happy that he got fired. I’ve had a number of people come up to me, I got an email from a Marine this morning [Thursday]: ‘Hey man, you did great work. All the guys in my company think it’s good McChrystal is not there because he was putting our lives at risk.” http://huff.to/cnDR6h

    The ROE weren’t just McChrystal’s doing, they seem to have been essential to his view of COIN.

  402. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 26, 2010 at 12:27 pm #

    PJ: to enlighten the socialist lean on this “page of Obama propaganda”
    ………………………“We live in a Constitutional Republic. The President’s job under theConstitution is to enforce the laws made by the elected Congress. His job isnot to create new laws and enforce them all by himself. His job is asmagistrate under the Constitution, not as Caudillo. He is not the law. He issupposed to enforce what Congress decides.The BP behavior is reminiscent of how, immediately after assuming office,Mr. Obama, with no Congressional authority or administrative allowance,simply made a phone call to fire the head of GM. When I called the WhiteHouse press office to ask under what law or regulation Mr. Obama was acting,I was told he did not need a law. If the government put a lot of money intoGM, it could call the shots at GM, I was told. But under what authority, Iasked. None needed,’ was the final answer. … The same goes for Mr.Obama’s demand that BP pay the lost wages of oil and gas workers suspendedfrom work because of the moratorium on Gulf of Mexico underseas drilling.There simply was no legislation allowing this kind of specific demand.Mr. Obama’s demand was in the nature of a threat, more than a Constitutionalact. … [T]o create specific enactments and actions without any authority— now Mr. Obama’s specialty — is so at odds with the law of the land thatit terrifies me.These are not the acts of a teacher on Constitutional law. These are theacts of a big city boss or a third world dictator.”Ben Steincolumnist

    Are we socialist or marxist? You can’t seem to make up your mind. Wow you’re really quoting Ben Stein? Yeah it must be a big problem for the right to see a corporation who actually screwed the entire gulf region for decades to come, eliminated jobs, killed people because of negligence have their feet held to the fire and actually pay up. Corporations can’t be trusted on just their word. BP said their rig was safe, BP said they could fix this its obvious neither of that was true. Ben Stein is a quack

  403. avatar
    nc1 June 26, 2010 at 3:19 pm #

    sfjeff: NC1-Why do you keep dodging the simple question- did you lie when you said Obama had lied in his autobiography about his father’s airlift- or were you mistaken? Did you lie about how many years difference there was, or were you mistaken?Do you even understand the difference between an error and a lie? If you don’t, then the only conclusion is that if you feel Obama lied, then you must also feel that you yourself lied. Regarding the Washington Post article- nowhere in that article do they claim Obama lied. They do point out the error, but see, the Washington Post clearly understands that to smear someone with the claim of lying there should be some clear evidence of fabrication, rather than what, on the surface, appears to be a simple error- whether its because Obama was simply stating what he had been told growing up, or whether he misremembered. “He claimed in his book that an article in the Life magazine transformed his life. It was a story about a black man wanting to peel off his skin . The trouble is, nobody could find that article. Obama switched story and said that perhaps it was an article in the Ebony magazine. People checked again and found out that the Ebony magazine never published such a story.”Oh the horrors! First of all you do realize that simply not finding the article doesn’t mean it never existed. Secondly- and I am going on memory here- I think he read that article when he was a kid in Indonesia. I hate to burst your bubble here- but I have found out- and i am close to Obama’s age- that I have misremembered things about my youth. I was looking through a box of keepsakes from my childhood a few weeks ago(we had to move our items in storage) and I was surprised by several things that I remembered incorrectly. I am always amazed at the trivial details that Obama haters pin their claims on- does it matter whether it was Life or Ebony or some other magazine? Is it material? Even if its completely wrong, its not a lie if thats what President Obama remembered. “When did Selma march happen? When was Obama Jr born? It is not difficult to see through this lie.”So when you claimed Obama lied in his autobiography about Obama Sr. arriving in the airlift, were you lying or were you mistaken? Again, the Washington Post deals with that fairly- why can’t you? Is that it? This is the totality of evidence you have that Obama is a habitual liar? By that evidence I should be calling you a habitual liar, but I won’t. I think you are just mistaken.Really- Obama haters out there- If you are so convinced that President Obama is this habitual liar- give us some real substantial lies- lies that really matter. Show me verifiable lies where the clear intent was to mislead people for his personal or professional benefit. If Obama is this habitual liar, you should have dozens and dozens of examples easily at your fingertips. And one last time- just to keep you on track. Were you lying or were you just mistaken? Do you understand the difference?

    How about his promise that he would change to way how business is done in Washington DC.
    He promised not to employ lobbyists in the administration; promised to put all legislation on internet for everyone to see before signing it…

    It is a simple Google search to find numerous lies told by Obama.
    For example:
    http://obamalies.net/list-of-lies

  404. avatar
    G June 26, 2010 at 3:36 pm #

    nc1:
    How about his promise that he would change to way how business is done in Washington DC.
    He promised not to employ lobbyists in the administration; promised to put all legislation on internet for everyone to see before signing it…It is a simple Google search to find numerous lies told by Obama.
    For example:
    http://obamalies.net/list-of-lies

    NC1, you poor, poor gullible stooge and hack partisan tool. All you can do is whine and complain and cite obviously biased hack sites.

    Try using sources that do actual credentialed journalism for a change.

    If you care about the president’s track record from a non-biased source, the best is Politifact.com. In fact, just today, they just updated their article on Obama’s campaign record, which you seem to be whining about, so here:

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2010/jun/25/checking-obamas-campaign-promises/

    Obama made more than 500 campaign promises during the campaign. We’ve categorized them according to subject, including health care, taxes , foreign policy, and the economy. We’ve also selected 25 of Obama’s most important promises and categorized them as PolitiFact’s Top Promises.

    We also keep a count on the rating of the promises. The latest breakdown:

    117 Promise Kept
    19 Promise Broken
    36 Compromise
    81 Stalled
    249 In the Works

    That is a lot of campaign statements. Politicians do it all the time. Every single one of them. No matter how sincere (or naive) they might be when they make those statements, it is extremely unrealistic to achieve all the things that they campaign on. That is just simple reality.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_promise

    So you can look at every past politician & past president & see that many of their campaign promises were broken or failed to get off the ground completely.

    When you add into the mix that the President has to rely on a completely separate branch of government to make laws, then the ability to deliver on promises becomes even more difficult.

    For someone who has been president for only 1.5 years, 117 promises kept and 249 in the works is quite impressive to me.

    Particularly when you consider how many different crises have to be addressed and juggled and that that the minority party (GOP) has focused mainly on doing whatever it can to obstruct, delay and kill the president’s agenda, just so they can make him look bad and has done an amazing job at negative spin & misinformation.

  405. avatar
    Bovril June 26, 2010 at 3:48 pm #

    nc1: He promised not to employ lobbyists in the administration; promised to put all legislation on internet for everyone to see before signing it…

    Just how stupid

    a. Are you
    b. Do you assume we are

    By the time any bill gets to the president it has been available for extensive periods of time both at the Congress and/or Senate stage.

    Don’t believe

    http://thomas.loc.gov/

    Now, if the various vermin in Congress and Senate keep making changes to abill to fast for the system to be keot up to date that’s their problem and sod all to do with Obama.

    All bills that get to the POTUS are final (you remember how a bill becomes law…) and is and has been available to see.

    Muppet

  406. avatar
    G June 26, 2010 at 4:01 pm #

    People should try using sources that do actual credentialed journalism for a change.

    If you care about the president’s track record from a non-biased source, the best is Politifact.com. In fact, just today, they just updated their article on Obama’s campaign record, which you seem to be whining about, so here:

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2010/jun/25/checking-obamas-campaign-promises/

    Obama made more than 500 campaign promises during the campaign. We’ve categorized them according to subject, including health care, taxes , foreign policy, and the economy. We’ve also selected 25 of Obama’s most important promises and categorized them as PolitiFact’s Top Promises.

    We also keep a count on the rating of the promises. The latest breakdown:

    117 Promise Kept
    19 Promise Broken
    36 Compromise
    81 Stalled
    249 In the Works

    That is a lot of campaign statements. Politicians do it all the time. Every single one of them. No matter how sincere (or naive) they might be when they make those statements, it is extremely unrealistic to achieve all the things that they campaign on. That is just simple reality.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_promise

    So you can look at every past politician & past president & see that many of their campaign promises were broken or failed to get off the ground completely.

    When you add into the mix that the President has to rely on a completely separate branch of government to make laws, then the ability to deliver on promises becomes even more difficult.

    For someone who has been president for only 1.5 years, 117 promises kept and 249 in the works is quite impressive to me.

    Particularly when you consider how many different crises have to be addressed and juggled, that that the minority party (GOP) has focused mainly on doing whatever it can to obstruct, delay and completely block the president’s agenda, just so they can make him look bad and the tide of negative spin & misinformation that must be overcome in order to get anything accomplished.

  407. avatar
    Rick A Hyatt June 27, 2010 at 7:37 pm #

    Well, I’ve got the answer to all of your questions, but you’ll have to don your thinking cap, first: The reason “The perfect President’s” Legend, documentation, and mixed ethnic background is at once simple, and yet complex.
    I have lived a lifetime of espionage simply because of who my father was, former East German Ministerium fuer Staatssichheit (STASI) General Markus “Misha” Wolf, the head of their version of the CIA.
    It’s been touted that he was “Turned” in 1992, but that one secret I had to keep from 1977, when I was sent to West Germany to lure him out. It worked, and he was counter-run from then. It seemed his wish to go down in history for “Having perfected the use of sex as an espionage tool” was quite true. He had Celiac’s Disease, why he was called “The man with no face,” because that genetic disorder gives one a demeanor of being “Mentally Ill, Retarded, perverse” and is perfect for use as an undercover agent, or spy. This gluten-based dietary disorder is the basis for “The Manchurian Candidate” syndrome; I know, I’ve been run that way all my life.
    Wolf impregnated several women who also had it, in order to run life-long progeny agents against specific American Institutions in a timely agenda that would have brought about American’s collapse from within.
    I was to be used in an historic inheritance legal loophole, the very right to own property. Barack Obama’s usage is also obvious.
    So why would this master spy of documentation, Legend-building, agent-running etc., leave Obama such gaping openings in his “History” as to be eventually his downfall? Well, like I say, Gen. Wolf was turned in 1977, not 1992, as publicized.
    In the meantime, the CIA and the Bushes have been very busy pre-empting the known agenda of downfall for our country, while letting the enemy think they were winning. That had the benefit of forestalling the invasion of Europe, for the hopeful economic downfall of we through CHICOM slave-labor Walmart dollars.
    The American People have been presented with all the “Benefits” that Socialism could possible offer, short the Martial Law. Hopefully, tomorrow, the last day that SCOTUS sits, will be that day when they demand his BC, and deem him ineligible. Everything he’s put into place or appointed will be reversed, and the living Presidents will have to run the country until special elections are called.
    See my “Family photos” at http://www.rickhyatt.freeservers.com
    Thank you

  408. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 27, 2010 at 11:01 pm #

    Rick A Hyatt: Oh, forgot to mention, Wolf is white, and Obama’s true mother a black Indonesian, or so was told.

    I didn’t know it was Rick Hyatt comedy hour. Can you warn us or at least include a laugh track when you post?

  409. avatar
    Rick A Hyatt June 27, 2010 at 11:41 pm #

    Well, I’ve got the answer to all of your questions, but you’ll have to don your thinking cap, first: The reason “The perfect President’s” Legend, documentation, and mixed ethnic background is at once simple, and yet complex is for in who built it.
    I have lived a lifetime of espionage simply because of who my father was, former East German Ministerium fuer Staatssichheit (STASI) General Markus “Misha” Wolf, the head of their version of the CIA.
    It’s been touted that he was “Turned” in 1992, but that one secret I had to keep from 1977, when I was sent to West Germany to lure him out. It worked, and he was counter-run from then. It seemed his wish to go down in history for “Having perfected the use of sex as an espionage tool” was quite true. He had Celiac’s Disease, why he was called “The man with no face,” because that genetic disorder gives one a demeanor of being “Mentally Ill, Retarded, perverse” and is perfect for use as an undercover agent, or spy. This gluten-based dietary disorder is the basis for “The Manchurian Candidate” syndrome; I know, I’ve been run that way all my life.
    Wolf impregnated several women who also had it, in order to run life-long progeny agents against specific American Institutions in a timely agenda that would have brought about American’s collapse from within.
    I was to be used in an historic inheritance legal loophole, the very right to own property. Barack Obama’s usage is also obvious.
    So why would this master spy of documentation, Legend-building, agent-running etc., leave Obama such gaping openings in his “History” as to be eventually his downfall? Well, like I say, Gen. Wolf was turned in 1977, not 1992, as publicized. While he was white, Obama’s mother was a black Indonesian, or so I was told to remember. A simple DNA test would prove this out. I volunteer.
    In the meantime, the CIA and the Bushes have been very busy pre-empting the known agenda of downfall for our country, while letting the enemy think they were winning. That had the benefit of forestalling the invasion of Europe, for the hopeful economic downfall of we through CHICOM slave-labor Walmart dollars.
    The American People have been presented with all the “Benefits” that Socialism could possible offer, short the Martial Law. Hopefully, tomorrow, the last day that SCOTUS sits, will be that day when they demand his BC, and deem him ineligible. Everything he’s put into place or appointed will be reversed, and the living Presidents will have to run the country until special elections are called.
    See my “Family photos” at http://www.rickhyatt.freeservers.com
    Thank you

  410. avatar
    fica July 10, 2010 at 5:55 pm #

    Eh, it doesn’t really matter if Obama is born here or not. He’ll be gone in 2012 as voters reject his massive spending, which is several times that of Bush (who also spent too much). Unless Obama gets serious about actually reducing the national debt and fixing medicare (which is going bankrupt in 6 years), he’s as good as gone.

  411. avatar
    misha July 10, 2010 at 6:22 pm #

    fica: He’ll be gone in 2012 as voters reject his massive spending, which is several times that of Bush (who also spent too much). Unless Obama gets serious about actually reducing the national debt and fixing medicare (which is going bankrupt in 6 years), he’s as good as gone.

    When Clinton left office, there was a $212M surplus. When Shrub left office, there was a $1T deficit. The deficit is so high, because Shrub was running Iraq off the books, Obama had the accounting done honestly.

    Obama will be re-elected, and Cory Booker will follow. Better get used to it.

    This New York Jewish liberal actively supported Obama, and will do the same for Booker.

  412. avatar
    yguy July 10, 2010 at 8:05 pm #

    Rickey:
    Typical yguy twisting of the facts. The charges against the other three defendants were dropped because of insufficient evidence.

    This, of course, is the official DoJ line. The videos on youtube suggest otherwise.

    In particular, there is no evidence that the New Black Panther Party for Self-Defense had condoned Shabazz’s actions.

    Certainly no such evidence was ever presented in court, since the defendants never showed up. In any case, that hardly justifies the failure to meaningfully prosecute the other 3 defendants.

    The Federal Judge who issued the injunction, J. Stewart Dalzell, was appointed by President George H.W. Bush. He would not have signed it if he had not agreed that it is an appropriate resolution to the matter.

    He gave the Obama DoJ what it asked for, and I don’t know that he had authority to do more than that. In any case, the fact that he was appointed by W has nothing to do with anything.

  413. avatar
    Majority Will July 10, 2010 at 8:11 pm #

    “The videos on youtube suggest otherwise.”

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! WHEW ! ! !

    Hey everyone! Citing YouTube videos is now credible evidence ! ! !

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! !

    Oh. Oh. That is SO precious ! ! !

  414. avatar
    Majority Will July 10, 2010 at 8:17 pm #

    “The videos on youtube suggest otherwise.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQSNhk5ICTI&feature=player_embedded

    Yes, they do.

  415. avatar
    bob July 10, 2010 at 8:24 pm #

    yguy: The videos on youtube suggest otherwise.

    So two career DoJ attorneys with 60 years of experience make the judgment call that the law and facts didn’t support pursuing this, but if there’s a video on youtube…..

  416. avatar
    yguy July 10, 2010 at 8:51 pm #

    bob:
    The case wasn’t dismissed.(Some defendants were dismissed from the case.)

    Or, the case against the other defendants was dismissed. 🙄

    The DoJ sought — and obtained — an injunction.

    Yes, a watered down version of what the Bush DoJ sought, which was pretty limpwristed itself.

    Is it so hard for you to be accurate?

    Is it so necessary for you to strain at gnats?

    If the injunction was so meaningless, why did the Bush DoJ initiate this case?

    The Bush DoJ sought a slightly stiffer injunction, plus declarations and court costs.

    And Shabazz statement has to do with VRA violations….how?

    The injunction doesn’t prevent him from saying stuff like that at a polling place – at least not under the reading of 42USC1973i(b) that Holder can be expected to adhere to.

    And Shabazz speaks in e[]bonics?

    He did when he said what I quoted.

    But you’re not racist. Nooooooooo, sir.

    Glad we agree on that.

  417. avatar
    Majority Will July 10, 2010 at 8:54 pm #

    yguy:
    Or, the case against the other defendants was dismissed.
    Yes, a watered down version of what the Bush DoJ sought, which was pretty limpwristed itself.
    Is it so necessary for you to strain at gnats?
    The Bush DoJ sought a slightly stiffer injunction, plus declarations and court costs.
    The injunction doesn’t prevent him from saying stuff like that at a polling place – at least not under the reading of 42USC1973i(b) that Holder can be expected to adhere to.
    He did when he said what I quoted.
    Glad we agree on that.

    You have zero credibility. Are you a member of Stormfront?

  418. avatar
    Majority Will July 10, 2010 at 8:55 pm #

    “Is it so necessary for you to strain at gnats?”

    Says the nit picker of record. Hypocrisy?

  419. avatar
    yguy July 10, 2010 at 8:58 pm #

    bob:
    So two career DoJ attorneys with 60 years of experience make the judgment call that the law and facts didn’t support pursuing this [after getting a default judgment in favor of the US].

    fify

  420. avatar
    bob July 10, 2010 at 9:18 pm #

    yguy: Is it so necessary for you to strain at gnats?

    Somewhere, an irony meter explodes.

    yguy: fify

    The DoJ testified to Congress it was 60, gnat strainer.

    …and you do know it is pro forma to seek costs, right?

    yguy: He did when he said what I quoted

    Really? Where did he say, “kill summa dey babies”? Specifically “summa” and “dey.”

    yguy: The injunction doesn’t prevent him from saying stuff like that at a polling place – at least not under the reading of 42USC1973i(b) that Holder can be expected to adhere to.

    So it has nothing to do with VRA violations. You just like being a racist.

    Your comment is awaiting moderation

  421. avatar
    Rickey July 10, 2010 at 10:27 pm #

    yguy:
    Certainly no such evidence was ever presented in court, since the defendants never showed up. In any case, that hardly justifies the failure to meaningfully prosecute the other 3 defendants.

    There would have been more evidence if the defendants had appeared? Where would that evidence have come from?

    Three of the defendants were individuals, and the fourth defendant was the New Black Panther Party for Self-Defense. The only defendant other than Samir Shabazz who was present at the polling place was Jerry Jackson, and there is no evidence that he had a weapon. There is no evidence that the fourth defendant, Malik Zulu Shabazz, had anything to do with it beyond his membership in the New Black Panther Party for Self-Defense.

    He gave the Obama DoJ what it asked for

    Which is essentially the same thing that the Bush DOJ was asking for.

    “The Attorney General files this action seeking injunctive and declaratory relief pursuant to Section 11(b) of the Voting Rights Act of 1965, as amended, 42 U.S.C. § § 1973, 1973i(b) (2000).” – signed by Michael B. Mukasey, Bush’s attorney general

    The costs and disbursements would have been minimal to practically non-existent, since DOJ did nothing except file the Complaint, serve the defendants and request the injunction after Samir Shabazz defaulted.

  422. avatar
    mandy July 10, 2010 at 11:45 pm #

    Fica does have a point. Obama’s one year deficit is greater than bush’s eight year deficits combined…and clinton did rule with a republican controlled house that had four balanced budgets in a row…democrats really need to get spending under control or the republicans will make a comeback. If they can nab Kennedy’s seat, they can nab other seats as well. Congress needs to get its act together.

  423. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 10, 2010 at 11:57 pm #

    mandy: Fica does have a point. Obama’s one year deficit is greater than bush’s eight year deficits combined

    I can see why you agree with Fica, since you two are the same person, along with yawdle and the recent The_Proof_He_Misses.

    Deficits and budgetary policy are off topic for this blog.

  424. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 11, 2010 at 6:23 pm #

    yawdle:
    WTF are you talking about, exactly? Sock puppet? Are you really accusing me of being all the other birthers on here? WTF are you smoking? I’m surprised you didn’t say I was nc1 or any of the other people. It seems to me that if anybody says anything that doesn’t support Obama 100%, you and your “sock puppets” (if that’s what you call them) rage a war against them.

    I don’t have to accuse you yawdle the owner of this site has tracked your ip addresses to those other names. You are a sock puppet using multiple names to try to back up the points of the other names. No it had nothing to do with support for Obama but the fact that those 4 names have the same ip address. Just come out and admit you have no shame.

  425. avatar
    yawdle July 11, 2010 at 6:58 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): I don’t have to accuse you yawdle the owner of this site has tracked your ip addresses to those other names. You are a sock puppet using multiple names to try to back up the points of the other names. No it had nothing to do with support for Obama but the fact that those 4 names have the same ip address. Just come out and admit you have no shame.

    Surely you know that IP addresses can only track to a general location, although I’m guessing the Feds have better technology to pinpoint it. It’s no wonder that my nephew got fed up with you guys, all you seem to do is attack and attack.

  426. avatar
    Northland10 July 11, 2010 at 7:08 pm #

    yawdle: Surely you know that IP addresses can only track to a general location

    You are correct that you cannot normally trace the “location” but when the same IP address appears for different screen names, it is a 97% certain it is coming from the same place (or at least the same local gateway in a building). Even when an IP address for somebody’s computer or gateway changes, it is only by a few digits on the last number.

  427. avatar
    Sef July 11, 2010 at 7:11 pm #

    yawdle:
    Surely you know that IP addresses can only track to a general location, although I’m guessing the Feds have better technology to pinpoint it. It’s no wonder that my nephew got fed up with you guys, all you seem to do is attack and attack.

    Unless you are behind a firewall using NAT to distribute TCP/IP to several systems your IP address is identically your system. IOW your world-visible IP address is the address of your router, whether it be a multi-system router or your specific system.

  428. avatar
    Keith July 11, 2010 at 7:16 pm #

    yawdle:
    Surely you know that IP addresses can only track to a general location, although I’m guessing the Feds have better technology to pinpoint it. It’s no wonder that my nephew got fed up with you guys, all you seem to do is attack and attack.

    Well then there are several of you using the same computer, all spouting the same yawdle-twaddle. If your nephew is one of them, and your boy-friend is another, and your spiritual advisor is a fourth, then it amounts to the same thing as a sock-puppet ring at best. Worse, its a forum gang, designed for no purpose other than disruption.

    When you all spout the same crap, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over despite polite answers and calm refutation, then yes, the answers tend to get a little more pointed, then definitely sharp and dismissive.

    Patience is granted to 3 year olds when they behave like 3 year olds. Adults who behave like 3 year olds aren’t generally granted that privilege.

  429. avatar
    Sef July 11, 2010 at 7:21 pm #

    Sef:
    Unless you are behind a firewall using NAT to distribute TCP/IP to several systems your IP address is identically your system.IOW your world-visible IP address is the address of your router, whether it be a multi-system router or your specific system.

    Check out https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2

  430. avatar
    Sef July 11, 2010 at 7:35 pm #

    yawdle: Hmmm, considering that my nephew lives about 2 miles away, it seems that you can’t track the address to a specific house or computer, since I know all these posts you allege have not been made on this computer. I’m not even sure why you guys run this blog, since all you do is continue to loathe around in hate. If anything, the birthers have the joke on you, because two years after this matter had been settled, you are still bitching amongst yourselves about what the birthers are doing and actively attacking every thing they do in the public life. Seriously, you guys need to get a life. I can’t find many people that keep this close of tabs on new developements this long after the issue is gone. And for the record, I’m not an adult, I’m 13 (yes, my nephew his older than me. He’s 23.) You don’t have to be an adult to care about politics, and I can see this site is useless, as the people on it keep on repeating the same stuff over and over again for 2 years. Well, have fun, maybe I’ll check back on this site in 2012 and see how many of you successfully spent another 2 years of your life on this dead subject.

    A probable answer to this is that the DHCP server which provides your IP address has allocated a new address to your & your nephew’s systems. This happens.

  431. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 11, 2010 at 9:00 pm #

    yawdle:
    Surely you know that IP addresses can only track to a general location, although I’m guessing the Feds have better technology to pinpoint it. It’s no wonder that my nephew got fed up with you guys, all you seem to do is attack and attack.

    Aww sure now claim its your nephew using your computer. Nice try yawdle & crew. IP addresses rotate yes but they do not get reassigned so frequently. 4 names on the same ip address means you and your family members post under multiple names using your computer, which by the way, you claimed you had nothing to do with either of the names. I’m not attacking I’m stating the obvious

  432. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 11, 2010 at 9:02 pm #

    yawdle: Hmmm, considering that my nephew lives about 2 miles away, it seems that you can’t track the address to a specific house or computer, since I know all these posts you allege have not been made on this computer. I’m not even sure why you guys run this blog, since all you do is continue to loathe around in hate. If anything, the birthers have the joke on you, because two years after this matter had been settled, you are still bitching amongst yourselves about what the birthers are doing and actively attacking every thing they do in the public life. Seriously, you guys need to get a life. I can’t find many people that keep this close of tabs on new developements this long after the issue is gone. And for the record, I’m not an adult, I’m 13 (yes, my nephew his older than me. He’s 23.) You don’t have to be an adult to care about politics, and I can see this site is useless, as the people on it keep on repeating the same stuff over and over again for 2 years. Well, have fun, maybe I’ll check back on this site in 2012 and see how many of you successfully spent another 2 years of your life on this dead subject.

    You’ve been caught, stop your whining. If your nephew was posting under other names the IP address would be different. They are coming from your computer you’ve been called out now be a man and admit it. Aww you’re 13 no wonder you have no idea what you’re talking about.

  433. avatar
    the_proof_he_misses July 11, 2010 at 9:10 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Aww sure now claim its your nephew using your computer. Nice try yawdle & crew. IP addresses rotate yes but they do not get reassigned so frequently. 4 names on the same ip address means you and your family members post under multiple names using your computer, which by the way, you claimed you had nothing to do with either of the names. I’m not attacking I’m stating the obvious

    Ahh, somebody who thinks that the IP addresses must all point to one computer. I’m afraid this is the one spot where you are wrong, since all these posts you are talking about were not made from one computer or even one household. In fact, I believe Mandy (somebody who despises Obama’s spending but acknowledges he is natural born) wrote her post from a cell phone. It appears that your tracking system isn’t as sophisticated as you think. If anything, the owner of this site determined that we were from the same small area, and that’s why you seem to assume we are all from one computer–too bad that’s not the case. Never thought I’d see a hostile response from telling other people about this site (yeah, right!) And I don’t believe yawdle ever said he had nothing to do with any of the other names; rather, he said he wasn’t all of the other birthers on here. His statement is correct.

  434. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 11, 2010 at 9:14 pm #

    the_proof_he_misses:
    Ahh, somebody who thinks that the IP addresses must all point to one computer. I’m afraid this is the one spot where you are wrong, since all these posts you are talking about were not made from one computer or even one household. In fact, I believe Mandy (somebody who despises Obama’s spending but acknowledges he is natural born) wrote her post from a cell phone. It appears that your tracking system isn’t as sophisticated as you think. If anything, the owner of this site determined that we were from the same small area, and that’s why you seem to assume we are all from one computer–too bad that’s not the case. Never thought I’d see a hostile response from telling other people about this site (yeah, right!) And I don’t believe yawdle ever said he had nothing to do with any of the other names; rather, he said he wasn’t all of the other birthers on here. His statement is correct.

    Aww look who is back after being run off after making false statements. I’ve done a lot of work on networks. The odds of 4 different usernames using the same IP address on one website in a 2 week period are astronomical. Fess up already. The cell phone would point to a different IP address according to the carrier. I know because I post frequently on this site from my cell phone which points to an entirely different ip set even though I can make the post from the same location. Nice try but you’re wrong just like you’re wrong about your previous posts. Stop inventing excuses you’ve been caught.

  435. avatar
    the_proof_he_misses July 11, 2010 at 9:16 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Aww look who is back after being run off after making false statements. I’ve done a lot of work on networks. The odds of 4 different usernames using the same IP address on one website in a 2 week period are astronomical. Fess up already. The cell phone would point to a different IP address according to the carrier. I know because I post frequently on this site from my cell phone which points to an entirely different ip set even though I can make the post from the same location. Nice try but you’re wrong just like you’re wrong about your previous posts. Stop inventing excuses you’ve been caught.

    Well it looks like you are completely wrong. That’s too bad, since no amount of reasoning will convince you otherwise. They are not all from this computer, but if it makes you feel better to think so, well then good for you.

  436. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 11, 2010 at 9:17 pm #

    the_proof_he_misses:
    Well it looks like you are completely wrong. That’s too bad, since no amount of reasoning will convince you otherwise. They are not all from this computer, but if it makes you feel better to think so, well then good for you.

    If you used any reason on this blog people would have seen it. Same household same ip address stop lying and just admit you’re using sock puppets.

  437. avatar
    the_proof_he_misses July 11, 2010 at 9:18 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): If you used any reason on this blog people would have seen it. Same household same ip address stop lying and just admit you’re using sock puppets.

    Really? I’d like to see you try and prove that they all came from this one computer. Oh wait, you can’t, since that is not the case. Same small area, yes, same household, definitely not.

  438. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 11, 2010 at 9:19 pm #

    the_proof_he_misses:
    Really? I’d like to see you try and prove that they all came from this one computer. Oh wait, you can’t, since that is not the case. Same small area, yes, same household, definitely not.

    Small area would mean the IP address would rotate even if you had the same service provider you wouldn’t be assigned the same IP address not in such a short period of time. I know networks you can quit digging your hole.

  439. avatar
    the_proof_he_misses July 11, 2010 at 9:21 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Small area would mean the IP address would rotate even if you had the same service provider you wouldn’t be assigned the same IP address not in such a short period of time. I know networks you can quit digging your hole.

    Apparently you do not know networks as well as you think.

  440. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 11, 2010 at 9:26 pm #

    the_proof_he_misses:
    You must either be convinced that everything came from one computer, which is not the case at all, or you are intent on continuing your bull since you refuse to ever be proven wrong.

    When I’m proven wrong I will gladly admit it. Thus far you haven’t been able to prove any of your birther statements nor your lack of knowledge on how IP addresses get assigned. You’re all posting from the same location

  441. avatar
    the_proof_he_misses July 11, 2010 at 9:28 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): When I’m proven wrong I will gladly admit it. Thus far you haven’t been able to prove any of your birther statements nor your lack of knowledge on how IP addresses get assigned. You’re all posting from the same location

    From what I’ve gathered in previous posts, since you are the one accusing me of using all four names from one computer, the burden of proof is on you. You cannot prove that all of those names are from one computer since that is not the case. You fail to understand this.

  442. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 11, 2010 at 9:34 pm #

    the_proof_he_misses:
    From what I’ve gathered in previous posts, since you are the one accusing me of using all four names from one computer, the burden of proof is on you. You cannot prove that all of those names are from one computer since that is not the case. You fail to understand this.

    That is the case unless you’re now admitting you’re using multiple computers to pretend to be other people that somehow support each others points. The odds of the same IP address being assigned to different computers in different households and them posting on the same site in a 2 week period, you’d have better odds winning powerball

  443. avatar
    the_proof_he_misses July 11, 2010 at 9:36 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): That is the case unless you’re now admitting you’re using multiple computers to pretend to be other people that somehow support each others points. The odds of the same IP address being assigned to different computers in different households and them posting on the same site in a 2 week period, you’d have better odds winning powerball

    Really? So you are saying that IP addresses cannot be reused that often? Is that what you are realling saying?

  444. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 11, 2010 at 9:40 pm #

    the_proof_he_misses:
    Really? So you are saying that IP addresses cannot be reused that often? Is that what you are realling saying?

    Even using the same service provider you would not have two different people using the same IP address because if that was the case one would be bumped offline. You don’t understand how a network works. The same IP address points to the users being behind the same firewall or proxy. The odds of 4 different people having the same IP address in a 2 week period posting on the same site are far.

  445. avatar
    the_proof_he_misses July 11, 2010 at 9:41 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Sure. They are the same computer

    Perhaps you should talk to the owner again and see if the IP addresses were identical or if they pointed to the same geographical area. Seeing that you say they were identical, you should now talk to a few computer experts and see if they can support your claims.

  446. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 11, 2010 at 9:49 pm #

    the_proof_he_misses:
    Perhaps you should talk to the owner again and see if the IP addresses were identical or if they pointed to the same geographical area. Seeing that you say they were identical, you should now talk to a few computer experts and see if they can support your claims.

    They were identical and would point to the same area. I am an expert I know people in the field, i know people who do computer security for a living. The odds of 4 different computers in 4 different locations with the same IP address posting at the same site in a two week period are over 10,000:1

  447. avatar
    Majority Will July 11, 2010 at 9:51 pm #

    the_proof_he_misses:
    Perhaps you should talk to the owner again and see if the IP addresses were identical or if they pointed to the same geographical area. Seeing that you say they were identical, you should now talk to a few computer experts and see if they can support your claims.

    Are you really this embarrassed? Sad.

  448. avatar
    the_proof_he_misses July 11, 2010 at 9:54 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): But you seem to know who mandy is

    Ah, I do know who mandy is (this has never been denied). However, to say that ever post you allege came from this household, well, you are wrong. Plain wrong. Since you say the IP addresses are identical (and I guess I have to take your word for that), then you are mistaken when you say that only one computer can have that IP address. You’re wrong.

  449. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 11, 2010 at 9:59 pm #

    the_proof_he_misses:
    Ah, I do know who mandy is (this has never been denied). However, to say that ever post you allege came from this household, well, you are wrong. Plain wrong. Since you say the IP addresses are identical (and I guess I have to take your word for that), then you are mistaken when you say that only one computer can have that IP address. You’re wrong.

    same network, same household. Again you’re not very good at lying

  450. avatar
    Majority Will July 11, 2010 at 9:59 pm #

    the_proof_he_misses:
    Ah, I do know who mandy is (this has never been denied). However, to say that ever post you allege came from this household, well, you are wrong. Plain wrong. Since you say the IP addresses are identical (and I guess I have to take your word for that), then you are mistaken when you say that only one computer can have that IP address. You’re wrong.

    Obstinate denial isn’t very convincing.

  451. avatar
    the_proof_he_misses July 11, 2010 at 10:03 pm #

    Majority Will: Obstinate denial isn’t very convincing.

    You didn’t ask the question, so I didn’t provide the answer you were seeking. I wonder if this answers your question on how we could both have the same IP address:
    The “Internet” wasn’t supposed to be a network of computers. The Internet was supposed to be a network of networks. An IP address connects to one particular place on the Internet, which can then pass it out to whatever other computers are in its network.

    What makes that kind of confusing is that that hidden network may itself be an “Internet protocol” network. In fact, that’s very, very common these days. You’ll connect a device to the world-wide Internet called a Network Address Translation router (NAT). And you connect a lot of different computers to the NAT box.

    Those computers are called a Local Area Network (LAN), and they connect to the Wide Area Network (WAN), aka The Internet.

    As far as The Internet is concerned, all of those computers have the same IP address, and nobody else in the world has that IP address.

    As far as the LAN is concerned, each of those computers has a different IP address. Those addresses often look like “192.168.10.12” or “10.0.0.15”. All IP addresses beginning with “10” or “192.168” are “private”: nobody on the Internet has those addresses.

    The NAT box assigns addresses to your computer beginning with those numbers. Then when it relays packets to the outside world, it “translates” them to use its Internet address, and “translates” them back when packets come in.

    It can do that because there’s one more part of the address, called the “port”. It works like this:

    To get to Askville’s web site, I send a packet to 72.21.206.80, on port 80. (That 80 is different from the “.80” at the end of the address.
    I tell it to reply to me at 192.168.10.1, port 9438. (Ports run up to 65,535).
    My computer sends it its “gateway”, the NAT box. The NAT box change the packet to say, “Reply at 204.127.205.8 (its IP address), port 22345.”
    Askville gets the message and sends a reply, which gets to the NAT box.
    The NAT box remembers that messages to 22345 should really be delivered to 192.168.10.1, port 9438, and I get my reply. I have no idea that NAT is going on.
    Which is a long way of saying “Yes, two computers can have the same address”. Your own computer could be called 192.168.10.1 on its local network. But since that address isn’t used on the Internet, I can’t get directly there. I’d have to go through your NAT box, and if it’s not expecting me, it won’t forward my packets.

  452. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 11, 2010 at 10:05 pm #

    the_proof_he_misses:
    You didn’t ask the question, so I didn’t provide the answer you were seeking. I wonder if this answers your question on how we could both have the same IP address:
    The “Internet” wasn’t supposed to be a network of computers.The Internet was supposed to be a network of networks.An IP address connects to one particular place on the Internet, which can then pass it out to whatever other computers are in its network.What makes that kind of confusing is that that hidden network may itself be an “Internet protocol” network.In fact, that’s very, very common these days.You’ll connect a device to the world-wide Internet called a Network Address Translation router (NAT).And you connect a lot of different computers to the NAT box.Those computers are called a Local Area Network (LAN), and they connect to the Wide Area Network (WAN), aka The Internet.As far as The Internet is concerned, all of those computers have the same IP address, and nobody else in the world has that IP address.As far as the LAN is concerned, each of those computers has a different IP address.Those addresses often look like “192.168.10.12‘ or “10.0.0.15‘.All IP addresses beginning with “10‘ or “192.168‘ are “private”: nobody on the Internet has those addresses.The NAT box assigns addresses to your computer beginning with those numbers.Then when it relays packets to the outside world, it “translates” them to use its Internet address, and “translates” them back when packets come in.
    It can do that because there’s one more part of the address, called the “port”.It works like this:To get to Askville’s web site, I send a packet to 72.21.206.80, on port 80.(That 80 is different from the “.80‘ at the end of the address.
    I tell it to reply to me at 192.168.10.1, port 9438.(Ports run up to 65,535).
    My computer sends it its “gateway”, the NAT box.The NAT box change the packet to say, “Reply at 204.127.205.8 (its IP address), port 22345.”
    Askville gets the message and sends a reply, which gets to the NAT box.
    The NAT box remembers that messages to 22345 should really be delivered to 192.168.10.1, port 9438, and I get my reply.I have no idea that NAT is going on.
    Which is a long way of saying “Yes, two computers can have the same address”. Your own computer could be called 192.168.10.1 on its local network.But since that address isn’t used on the Internet, I can’t get directly there. I’d have to go through your NAT box, and if it’s not expecting me, it won’t forward my packets.

    All that copy and pasting and you still don’t know what all that means. Yes the local ip could be the same but what gets sent out to the internet is not the same. That is the IP address we see not the local 192.168. protocol. So all that research and you still didnt learn anything.

  453. avatar
    dunstvangeet July 11, 2010 at 10:32 pm #

    yawdel, the fact is that you don’t understand how the Internet actually works.

    Your Internet Service Provider (ISP) provides you with a public address (or multiple public addresses as the case might be). This all is addressed to basically one physical building.

    Now, you may use Network Address Translation to further seperate these addresses so that multiple computers may use them (my own personal network usually has 3 computers using the same public IP address), but they will always be in the same connection to the Internet.

    ISPs do not provide private IP addresses to their customers, and then translate outside. This means that your connection runs basically to one network, and you’ve already admitted that you’re in the same Local Area Network (LAN).

    Actually, this is one of the big pushes behind IPv6 is the fact that we’re running out of addresses. By the way, because IPv6 has the ability to theoretically address 340,282,366,920,938,463,463,374,607,431,768,211,456 different addresses, there is no need for NAT in IPv6.

  454. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 11, 2010 at 10:38 pm #

    the_proof_he_misses: I wonder if this answers your question on how we could both have the same IP address

    the_proof_he_misses, and his troop of sock puppets (sock puppets are different names someone uses to carry out conversations with themselves in a forum such as this), gives us a dissertation about IP addresses and NAT routers, trying to suggest something that the similar IP addresses of the puppet personas are just different people on the same network. And indeed, two family members might appear to have the same IP address. But I never said anything about IP addresses, did I?

    No, it wasn’t IP address that exposed the ruse, it was the carelessly repeated email address that appeared on them all. You changed that now, but you can’t erase the past.

    This brings to mind a story of something that happened to me a very long time ago. In graduate school I was a teaching assistant and I taught freshman calculus. One of my students cheated in a very careless and obvious way. I talked to my faculty adviser about what I should do. She pointed out that the student only scored 30 out 100 even when cheating, and had no chance of passing the course anyway. She suggested that nothing need be done beyond letting the student know they had been caught. It’s funny: that’s been almost 40 years ago and I still remember the student’s name. Funny what stays with you.

    Upon reading additional comments, I see that the_proof_he_misses is hijacking the conversation with this silly attempt to lie his his way out. the_proof_he_misses is banned.

  455. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 11, 2010 at 10:39 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    the_proof_he_misses, and his troop of sock puppets (sock puppets are different names someone uses to carry out conversations with themselves in a forum such as this), gives us a dissertation about IP addresses and NAT routers, trying to suggest something that that the similar IP addresses of the puppet personas are just different people. And indeed, two family members mightappear to have the same IP address. But I never said anything about IP addresses, did I?No, it wasn’t IP address that exposed the ruse, it was the carelessly repeated email address that appeared on them all. You changed that now, but you can’t erase the past.This brings to mind a story of something that happened to me a very long time ago. In graduate school I was a teaching assistant and I taught freshman calculus. One of my students cheated in a very careless and obvious way. I talked to my faculty adviser about what I should do. She pointed out that the student only scored 30 out 100 even when cheating, and had no chance of passing the course anyway. She suggested that nothing need be done beyond letting the student know they had been caught. It’s funny: that’s been almost 40 years ago and I still remember the student’s name. Funny what stays with you.

    Check and Mate. Thanks doc that was entirely too easy to expose.

  456. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 11, 2010 at 10:45 pm #

    the_proof_he_misses: I know that you are wrong because Mandy’s post definitely did not come from this computer.

    That’s true. If you hadn’t used the same email address, I would never have known.

  457. avatar
    misha July 11, 2010 at 10:53 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: That’s true. If you hadn’t used the same email address, I would never have known.

    Touché.