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Why doesn’t he show the damn thing?

Certification

Birth Certificate Mark I

A visitor to Obama Conspiracy Theories asked:

So Dr. Conspiracy we can encapsulate this whole problem by Obama just releasing his long form birth certificate. Why doesn’t he just do this simple thing and put this to rest once and for all and blow all the conspiracy theorist to pieces but instead he spends a million dollars to hide all of this. I asked my 10 yr. old son and he said the same thing.

This is a very frequently asked question.

First the premise of “millions spent” isn’t true. Mr. Woocher, Obama’s lawyer in California told Politico.com that he was working pro bono (for free) and that this talk of millions spent is false. Many of the lawsuits aren’t directed at Obama anyway, but at state officials, so no Obama expense there either.

“This suit, like all of the others that have been filed challenging Obama’s qualifications for the Presidency, is frivolous,” he said in an email to POLITICO, adding that he is, in fact, working pro bono. “There is absolutely no truth to the stories about the untold millions supposedly being paid to us,” he said.

Culture of conspiracy: the Birthers – Politico.com

But it doesn’t really matter how much if anything Obama has spent, because the heart of your question is why won’t Obama release the certificate and “make this all go away”.

As part of my research, I read blog posts historically going back to 2007 on Obama eligibility questions. In early June, 2008, bloggers were crying “just show us a birth certificate and we will be satisfied”.

You can argue about COLB’s until the cows come home, but the indisputable fact is that if you go to the State of Hawaii web site, and fill out the form to apply for a “Birth Certificate” (not a COLB, or a CEOLB or a CNOLB), just a “Birth Certificate”, and send it in, you will get a document like Obama’s (assuming you were born in Hawaii). So Obama posted the “usual” document on web sites and let a respected fact check organization look it at and photograph it up close. (See: Factcheck.Org – Born in the USA). Newspaper birth announcements corroborated; Hawaiian Officials corroborated.

Was anybody satisfied? Did it do any good? Was the controversy resolved? Did it “all go away?” I’m sure that everyone here knows that it did not satisfy a damn thing. I respectfully submit that if all that didn’t make it go away, nothing will. (It said “African” instead of “Black”, it said date something when it should have said date something else, it was only a “certification”, anybody can get a Hawaiian Birth Certificate, the crease can’t be seen, the stamp is the wrong size, the certificate number is too high or too low,  it’s invalidated because it was altered, it’s an obvious forgery, Polarik, Techdude, Lines, it cites some Hawaiian law on the bottom, there’s a space missing in the date, it’s not suitable for the Hawaiian Homelands Program and on and on). A whole cottage industry has sprouted up finding bogus reasons not to accept a document that for every other Hawaiian citizen is proof of birth in Hawaii, and proof of US Citizenship.

Reason tells me that if Birth Certificate Mark I caused more problems than it solved, then Birth Certificate Mark II would likely do the same thing.

But let us assume by some miracle of miracles Birth Certificate Mark II rather than creating more cries of forgery or official misconduct miraculously convinced the whole world that Barack Obama was really born in Hawaii; does it solve the eligibility question?

No, it does not. First there is the whole lost citizenship in Indonesia/Travel ban to Pakistan thing. False, but pervasive. That and the Selective Service registration argument.

Further, students of Obama Conspiracy Theories know that birther arguments are falling out of favor among the nObamas, who today only want to talk about redefining “natural born citizen” because Obama’s father was a British citizen.

So you see, nothing will be resolved by releasing a birth certificate, or anything else. Not a single lawsuit will be satisfied by a birth certificate.

Editorial note (February 21, 2012):

Two years after this story was written, Barack  Obama did indeed release his long form birth certificate. While a significant number of doubters were satisfied, the birther controversy did not go away, and indeed intensified, spinning new and even more fantastic reasons to ignore the evidence for President Obama’s birth in Hawaii.

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169 Responses to Why doesn’t he show the damn thing?

  1. avatar
    myson March 13, 2009 at 3:46 am #

    Not to mention all the innocent pple who would be harrassed by the Birther such as nurses, doctors & hospital administrators. As they would be asked to remember an event that happened almost 50years as though its the only birth they’ve ever attended, even they may prefer to keep some information secret !!
    Also after the BC, the birther also want other records- school, medical, travel etc; so the demand will never stop, its safer to nip it in the bud with the Bc & keep the birther here till he build his library & reveals all there

  2. avatar
    notha March 13, 2009 at 6:48 am #

    There is a very good reason why Obama doesn’t hand over his original birth certificate.

    1. The certifying authority aka HI has a policy where nobody but the actual person is permitted to request a certificate.

    2. Although Obama is President, he still has the same rights to privacy as any citizen, he doesn’t have to show an original if he doesn’t want to, period, this is his right.

    Just because some idiots feel they have a right to see his original certificate doesn’t mean Obama has to give it to them.

    Accept the dam certified copy and move on, it’s just as valid as an original.

    The ones that needed to verify already have, everyone else don’t have a “need to no” and can go suck a tree.

  3. avatar
    Heavy March 13, 2009 at 9:32 am #

    What a bunch of crap! You people are nothing but lackies and apologists for your messiah.

    You keep making the SAME OLD excuses. All he has to do is produce the documents. PLAIN AND SIMPLE!

    The American people have the RIGHT to know who this clown really is. He will come clean or he will be made to come clean. Either way, justice will not be denied!

  4. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 13, 2009 at 9:47 am #

    And good morning to you, Heavy.

  5. avatar
    Heavy March 13, 2009 at 10:07 am #

    Top ‘O the marnin’ to ya, doc!

  6. avatar
    nbc March 13, 2009 at 10:15 am #

    You keep making the SAME OLD excuses. All he has to do is produce the documents. PLAIN AND SIMPLE!

    He has produced the document. Still in denial I notice?

  7. avatar
    Heavy March 13, 2009 at 10:25 am #

    Pay attention. I said documentS! Plural. And, no, HE has not produced anything. In his whole life even. His “People” do everything for him.

    Face it, this guy is not only a usurper, but a bumbling idiot!

  8. avatar
    myson March 13, 2009 at 10:33 am #

    Considering you keep asking the same old questions we are compelled to give you the same answer, which you might observed has worked very well for our side. If something/an excuse is working why give a new one ??
    So say it after me “President Obama”.
    You know its funny only Obama’s detractors called him names like messiah, the one etc, his supporters & almost everywhere in the world simply call him “President Obama”. You should learn it, as it will continue for the next 8years !!!

  9. avatar
    nbc March 13, 2009 at 10:43 am #

    Coming from you, I am sure that Obama would consider these insults ‘flattery’. I understand your frustration with Obama’s new policies which are taking this country into a wonderful new direction.
    However, contrary to myth, Obama did present his COLB for all to analyze and as I have done here it shows all evidence of authenticity.
    So now you have to explain how Obama’s COLB shows a birth in Honolulu, registered only 4 days after his birth date?

    Good luck my dear friend (and fellow liberal?)

  10. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 13, 2009 at 10:47 am #

    I’ll have my people get back to you on that.

  11. avatar
    nbc March 13, 2009 at 10:47 am #

    In the pink colored world of birthers, Obama must be hiding something, after all, they cannot oppose his policies and thus are reduced to ad hominem attacks.

    Quite telling. Especially given the evidence to the contrary…

  12. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 13, 2009 at 10:51 am #

    I’m traveling this week, but I am certain that the final proof that will put to rest the whole controversy is in my mailbox at home right now. Very soon the birthers will be looking for holes to hide in. You can count on it.

  13. avatar
    Heavy March 13, 2009 at 10:56 am #

    Blah, blah, blah, birthers, blah, blah, blah, evidence, blah, blah, blah, COLB. blah, blah,blah…

    Don’t you see how ridiculous you people are to the real world.

    You have NO evidence, proof of anything or basis for your claims.

    We aska simple question and you spend months giving everything BUT answers.

    I’m really starting to feel sorry for you sickos. Well, not really. You deserve everything coming your way Traitors will be traitors!

  14. avatar
    Heavy March 13, 2009 at 10:57 am #

    Can’t wait, doc!

  15. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 13, 2009 at 11:14 am #

    If you get anything from this discussion, I hope that it is:

    1. I think that I am acting rationally, speaking reasonably, and espouse a position firmly grounded in fact.
    2. I think the birthers are nutcases, whose beliefs are grounded in false information and fantastic stories that they have fabricated. They reject the evidence that is available in favor of speculation and fantasy.
    3. I do not think there is any reasonable doubt as to Obama’s legitimacy as president, and therefore there is no reasonable grounds for an investigation.
    4. Not all questions deserve an answer. Specifically the birthers’ have not shown that their theories have a factual basis that would legitimize their questions.
    5. Refusal to answer a question is admission of nothing, nor indication of something to hide.
    6. blah, blah, blah, evidence, blah, blah, blah, COLB. blah, blah,blah…

  16. avatar
    Heavy March 13, 2009 at 11:35 am #

    Doc, you had me until #4. You claim to be rational and reasonable, yet state defiantly that questions about the leader of the free world don’t have to be answered. These are not questions about policy, but eligibilty. People who refuse to answer such questions ARE hiding something. You are anything but rational. But TREASON is not a rational act, is it doc!

  17. avatar
    Koyaan March 13, 2009 at 11:42 am #

    You have NO evidence, proof of anything or basis for your claims.

    You’re absolutely right. Birthers have NO evidence, proof anything or basis for their claims.

    k

  18. avatar
    Chris March 13, 2009 at 11:45 am #

    Doc, I like your reasoning on point #6. Socrates couldn’t have said it better. I honestly find this whole ‘controversy’ extremely amusing. It fits nicely alongside the moon landing, the Kennedy assassination and Soylent Green. I’m convinced that if Obama pointed out that the sky was blue, the birthers would be able to come up with some sort of ‘evidence’ that it is, in fact, green and that he usurped the atmosphere.

    I’ve noticed that between this site and factsbedamned.org, er, defendourfreedoms.us there are many differences completely unrelated to content. Visually, Orly’s site is just a trainwreck. It’s plain hard on the eyes, whereas this site actually looks nice and is easy to navigate and all of that. And you let heavy post, which is cool. No censorship. Also, your posts actually use correct grammar you appear to be able to speak the english language. Last, but not least, it seems there is a place for humor in your analysis (see point #6). I think that the birthers had their senses of humor surgically removed at birth(er).

  19. avatar
    Heavy March 13, 2009 at 11:50 am #

    Worhippers of THE ONE think there is safety in numbers. They are wrong…AGAIN! Or should I say still?

  20. avatar
    Chris March 13, 2009 at 11:50 am #

    Put it this way – what if someone questioned Obama about appropriating taxpayer money for breeding weaponized unicorns to forcibly turn US citizens into homosexual communists? Do you think he should have to answer that? Obviously not. That question is entirely ridiculous, as are the arguments about his legitimacy.

  21. avatar
    Chris March 13, 2009 at 11:52 am #

    BTW, Doc – something seems to be malfunctioning with the ‘Reply to this Comment’ feature. My comments aren’t appearing under the ones I intended to respond to. Or I’m an idiot. I’d probably bet on the latter.

  22. avatar
    Heavy March 13, 2009 at 11:53 am #

    Chrissy, put down the bong and think about what you just said.

  23. avatar
    Koyaan March 13, 2009 at 12:03 pm #

    BTW, Doc – something seems to be malfunctioning with the Reply to this Comment’ feature. My comments aren’t appearing under the ones I intended to respond to. Or I’m an idiot. I’d probably bet on the latter.

    Same thing here. Comments aren’t nesting like they should.

    Perhaps just as well in a way. I don’t particularly like how comments get squeezed into an inch wide strip when they get nested so far.

    k

  24. avatar
    Sally Hill March 13, 2009 at 12:06 pm #

    The only thing I question is the LEGAL definition of NBC. My question is based on FACTS, not conspiracy.

    Obama either is or is not eligible by virtue of his inherited citizenship. Show me the legal definition of NBC and then let’s determine his ligitimacy.

    The BC and COLB is a smokescreen. However, to your comment of ONLY getting a COLB is not true. Just as in my state, you must ask VERBALLY for a copy of your vault long-form – walla, you get it!

    And I’m pretty sure if Obama asked, he would receive. Most people aren’t in the habit of telling the President NO – but even so, who cares about the BC?

  25. avatar
    Bob March 13, 2009 at 12:25 pm #

    “homosexual communists”

    Is that redundant?

  26. avatar
    Roz March 13, 2009 at 12:30 pm #

    What the People of the United States are entitled to know is verification that Obama was in fact eligible to be POTUS, according to the constitution of the US. It is not up to the PEOPLE to prove this but to OBAMA to show that he is in fact eligible by providing CERTIFIED copies of his ORIGINAL birth certificate showing, all qualifying information. I don’t think this is too much to ask. If You were applying for a job in the federal govt. you would have to provide a CERTIFIED copy of the whole original birth certificate. As the president of TRANSPARENCY he should be transparent and show us the original.

  27. avatar
    Heavy March 13, 2009 at 12:32 pm #

    Hey, don’t blame doc. Everything is GWB’s fault, remember?

  28. avatar
    richCares March 13, 2009 at 12:38 pm #

    “The One” and “Messiah”
    Those opposed to Obama were baffled by his popularity and strong grass roots movement, the McCain campaign began their “The One” and “Messiah” comments in an effort to compete as it was obvious they were losing. It did not work, the only people using these terms were those opposing Obama trying to grasp Obama’s popularity. Except for the clueless on the far right, this issue is over except for those that don’t understand it. Using these terms immediately identifies you as an idiot!

  29. avatar
    Chris March 13, 2009 at 12:42 pm #

    Ah, heavy – ever the contrarian. Let me know who you like in the NCAA Tourney so I can pick the opposite.

    re: comment malfunctions. I don’t know what the technical issue is, but I’m fairly certain that Obama caused it. The server was rerouted through Pakistan using an Indonesian mainframe.

  30. avatar
    NBC March 13, 2009 at 12:45 pm #

    Who is really ridiculous here? Those who have the evidence that Obama was born in Honolulu, or those who hope, contrary to fact, that there exists some evidence to the contrary, even though they have failed so far to present much of anything relevant?

    You’re funny and very effective in giving the Birthers a bad name.

  31. avatar
    NBC March 13, 2009 at 12:47 pm #

    Tell that to those who have been led to believe that they can question the eligibility of their Commander in Chief and refuse to follow his orders.
    Treason indeed is not something to take lightly and I hope that the military has a sense of humor and ignores the actions and words of these poor souls.

  32. avatar
    Chris March 13, 2009 at 12:56 pm #

    “If You were applying for a job in the federal govt. you would have to provide a CERTIFIED copy of the whole original birth certificate.”

    FALSE. To apply for a federal job you just need to provide proof of citizenship. These documents would include: a US passport, a certificate of citizenship (or naturalization), or a birth certificate or (and this is important) a certification of report of birth, consular report of birth abroad or certification of birth abroad. The birth certificate is considered a secondary document to prove citizenship.

  33. avatar
    Heavy March 13, 2009 at 1:30 pm #

    Actually, we are not at all baffled or surprised by your messiah’ popularity. Liberals will always vote AGAINST America.

    It ain’t over yet. Not by a longshot. You sick SOB’s were correct about one thing…CHANGE IS A COMIN’!

  34. avatar
    Heavy March 13, 2009 at 1:36 pm #

    Doc has the “Evidence” in his mailbox. You know, the “Evidence” that does not have to be shown because THE ONE does not need to prove anything. The “Evidence” that WE have to show in order to prove he is NOT qualified.
    The “Evidence” that is so undeniable that doc couldn’t have someone else check his mail and end this “Controversy” once and for all.

    I can’t wait. I bet it’s a doosey! It’s probaly a picture of the doctor in HI holding the freshly born messiah along side Mary and Joseph and assorted farm animals.

  35. avatar
    Ian Gould March 13, 2009 at 1:46 pm #

    Or maybe it’s a reference to the multiple claims by Phil Berg et al that they’ll have the smoking gun evidence Obama was born in Kenya Real Soon Now.

  36. avatar
    Zuzu March 13, 2009 at 1:50 pm #

    I have to wonder what sort of scandalous information would be revealed by the “long form” birth certificate? His mother’s maiden name? His birth weight? The name of the hospital?

    Hawaii Birth Certificate

    The fact is that there is no relevant information contained on the “long form” birth certificate that isn’t contained on the COLB.

  37. avatar
    Heavy March 13, 2009 at 1:55 pm #

    Rest assured that your actions against this country WILL NOT be taken lightly.

  38. avatar
    Heavy March 13, 2009 at 1:57 pm #

    Ok. Let’s see it anyway.

  39. avatar
    NBC March 13, 2009 at 1:59 pm #

    Sally: Obama either is or is not eligible by virtue of his inherited citizenship. Show me the legal definition of NBC and then let’s determine his ligitimacy.

    Obama is eligible because he was born on US soil. Check out the court cases Perkins v Elg and Wong Kim Ark.

  40. avatar
    NBC March 13, 2009 at 2:01 pm #

    Is that so?…

  41. avatar
    Zuzu March 13, 2009 at 2:13 pm #

    Why?

  42. avatar
    Ian Gould March 13, 2009 at 2:22 pm #

    “Rest assured that your actions against this country WILL NOT be taken lightly.”

    More veiled threats.

    They do so much to add to your credibility.

  43. avatar
    Heavy March 13, 2009 at 2:35 pm #

    Threats? Where do you get threats out of that? You just said that treason is not to be taken lightly and I agreed. So, who were you threatening? Why do liberlas scare so easily?

    You sickos have no clue.

  44. avatar
    NBC March 13, 2009 at 3:01 pm #

    The ‘fat lady has sung’ in the case of Keyes v Obama

    Minute order
    Date: 03/13/2009 Dept: 31
    Judicial Officer Presiding: Judge Michael Kenny
    Clerk: Susan Lee
    Bailiff/Court Attendant: Greenwood, Derek
    ERM: None
    Reporter: K Van Winkle#6500
    Case Category: Civil – Unlimited
    Case Init. Date: 11/13/2008
    Event Type: Hearing on Demurrer – Writ of Mandate
    Case Title: Ambassador Dr Alan Keyes vs. California
    Secretary of State Debra Bowen
    Case No: 34-2008-80000096-CU-WM-GDS
    Moving Party: President Elect BarackObama, Vice President Elect JoeBiden
    Causal Document & Date Filed:Demurrer, 02/23/2009
    Appearances:
    Gary G. Kreep is present for the petitioners.
    Peter A. Krause, Deputy Attorney General is present for Respondent, California Secretary of State
    Debra Bowen.
    Michael J. Strumwasser and Aimee Dudovitz are present for Respondents, President-elect Barack
    Obama, Vice President-elect Joe Biden and the California electors.

    COURT RULING

    The matter is argued and submitted.
    The Court affirms the tentative ruling.

  45. avatar
    Bob March 13, 2009 at 3:01 pm #

    Ha! Pakistani rerouting was prohibited by the State Department in 1981!

  46. avatar
    NBC March 13, 2009 at 3:09 pm #

    You’re right ‘Change is Coming’ and we already have seen some lovely examples of such.
    So what are you proposing?

  47. avatar
    Patrick McKinnion March 13, 2009 at 3:30 pm #

    The main reason why people were demanding his BC in the first place had nothing to do with citizenship or birth. They were doing it because of the belief that one of his last names was “Muhammed”.

    After the COLB came out and “Muhammed” wasn’t on it, people started making other claims.

  48. avatar
    Patrick McKinnion March 13, 2009 at 3:33 pm #

    Blah, blah, blah, Kenyan Birth, blah, blah, blah, Indonesian Citizenship, blah, blah, blah, Forged COLB. blah, blah,blah…

    Don’t you see how ridiculous you people are to the real world?

    You have no credible evidence, proof of anything or basis for your claims.

    People – and the courts for that matter – keep asking a simple question – prove your claims – and you spend months giving everything BUT answers.

    I’m really starting to feel sorry for you conspiracy buffs. Well, not really.

  49. avatar
    thisoldhippie March 13, 2009 at 4:10 pm #

    Sally Hill:
    Please, please PLEASE – if you are going to use a word that is in a language other than English, please know how to spell the word. “Walla” is not a word. The word you seek is “voila” and it is French. This may seem trivial, but just shows that you are attempting to utilize words way beyond your scope of intelligence.

  50. avatar
    Heavy March 13, 2009 at 4:18 pm #

    Libs will argue anything but facts and truth.

  51. avatar
    richCares March 13, 2009 at 4:29 pm #

    “Libs will argue anything but facts and truth.”
    Wow, confirmation, Heavy is a lib! Who would have known!

  52. avatar
    Expelliarmus March 13, 2009 at 5:04 pm #

    Sally, every state has different practices. It is NOT “just as in your state” — Hawaii apparently stopped the practice of giving out so-called “long form” birth certificates many years ago, and this is what they have told everyone who has asked.

    This may be because Hawaii was also the first (or one of the first?) states to switch to electronic record keeping, so they put everything onto computer records early on.

  53. avatar
    NBC March 13, 2009 at 5:10 pm #

    There you go again, proclaiming yourself to be a Lib.
    Fact: Obama showed a Certification of Live Birth which shows him born in Honolulu and filed 4 days after birth.
    Fact: Two newspaper mention said birth based on DOH reports
    Fact: COLB is prima facie legal evidence

    Your turn

  54. avatar
    Zuzu March 13, 2009 at 7:21 pm #

    Well, not to nitpick but I think the term would be sedition, not treason.

    As to soldiers refusing to follow orders, much less the whole idea of everything Obama ever signed or ordered being invalidated if he were indeed found ineligible … it seems these idiots never heard of the long-established doctrine of de facto office.

    For instance:

    The doctrine which gives validity to acts of officers de facto, whatever defects there may be in the legality of their appointment of election, is founded upon considerations of policy and necessity, for the protection of the public and individuals whose interests may be affected thereby. Offices are created for the benefit of the public, and private parties are not permitted to inquire into the title of persons clothed with the evidence of such offices, and in apparent possession of their powers and functions. For the good order and peace of society their authority is to be respected and obeyed until, in some regular mode prescribed by law, their title is investigated and determined. [118 U.S. 425, 442] It is manifest that endless confusion would result if in every proceeding before such officers their title could be called in question.

    NORTON v. SHELBY COUNTY, 118 U.S. 425 (1886)

  55. avatar
    Zuzu March 13, 2009 at 7:24 pm #

    That last was to NBC. Nesting problem …

  56. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 13, 2009 at 7:35 pm #

    Chris, thanks for your kind comments. I think a lot about how the site appears to visitors, and particularly to first-time visitors. I admit that I learned about what NOT to do by reading Orly’s blog. Sometimes my language can get a little pedantic, and for that I apologize.

  57. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 13, 2009 at 7:38 pm #

    I’m not sure what the issue is. When you reply, the reply form should indicate what you’re replying to.

  58. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 13, 2009 at 7:43 pm #

    Sally, my opinion is that you are correct that a photocopy of the vault certificate would be available through some administrative procedure in Hawaii.

    As for the legal definition of NBC, I would refer you to the Attorney General Bates’ opinion here: http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/03/natural-born-citizen-precedent/

  59. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 13, 2009 at 7:45 pm #

    No, you would not have to show a vault copy to get a federal job or a passport. Where did you get such an idea?

  60. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 13, 2009 at 7:59 pm #

    That brings back memories of my college days. I used a German word (beyond my scope) writing a philosophy exam once. Fortunately, my professor was more interested in teaching us to think than in teaching us to spell. I’d tell you what the word was, but I still can’t spell it.

  61. avatar
    Expelliarmus March 13, 2009 at 8:14 pm #

    my opinion is that you are correct that a photocopy of the vault certificate would be available through some administrative procedure in Hawaii.

    I would not be so sure of that, based on anecdotal reports of Hawaiians who have tried to request “long form” birth certificates. I think that there was a time in the past when this could be done, but it appears that current practices of the Hawaii Dept of Health may be to provide the COLB only, no matter what the person asks.

    I have seen no evidence of anyone obtaining a long-form copy of their birth certificate AFTER June 2007. So absent a court order I think it is going too far to assume that this document could be obtained.

    I think you have to leave that in the “open questions” column, unless and until you can document the procedures that would have to be followed. (I’d suggest you start by sending an email to the Hawaii Dept. of Health and asking… you could post the response you get on this site. One way or another, it would be interesting).

  62. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 13, 2009 at 8:52 pm #

    §338-13 Certified copies. (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.

    (b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.

    (c) Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health. [L 1949, c 327, §17; RL 1955, §57-16; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-13; am L 1978, c 49, §1]

    I talked to one registrar in another state a couple of weeks back about this. She said that they don’t issue certificate image copies (even though they have them readily available) for some technical reasons I won’t get into here. But if the customer REALLY INSISTS, they will issue one. It won’t be a certified copy because their security paper is the wrong size to handle the image .

  63. avatar
    richCares March 13, 2009 at 10:16 pm #

    not any more, my daughter was born in Hawaii in 1965, I recently requested a long form or vault copy. The answer was “We issue only computer-generated certificates of birth.”. I did this on a speaker phone with a birther nearby, he didn’t believe it, they lied (he said). They gave same answer to an email request that I sent.
    You can ask them if you wish: call 808 586 4533. (Birthers won’t call)

  64. avatar
    Uncle Billy Wonders March 14, 2009 at 2:27 am #

    So the stock answer now to “why won’t he just show it” is “because that won’t satisfy the Birthers.”

    Pretty, pre-tty, pre-tty weak.

    Maybe the original is being withheld for another reason altogether? To intentionally create all of this interest? Those Obama strategists are pretty fancy — they know that the more you withhold something from someone, the more they want it. Why they would want to create interest from theorists? To create chaos? Certainly seems like there are many attempts lately to stir up chaos.

    And isn’t it weird how both candidates had issues with their citizenship, when this has happened how many times in the past with other candidates? None? Anyone know the answer to this?

    Has anyone taken a look to see if there are other instances where births during the same time period were reported in two separate papers? If they were forged somehow, maybe this might have been overkill. They would have thought “if we show it printed in just one paper, they might not be convinced… do it in two.”

  65. avatar
    Expelliarmus March 14, 2009 at 3:47 am #

    Has anyone taken a look to see if there are other instances where births during the same time period were reported in two separate papers?

    Back in ancient times (i.e., the early 1960s), most large cities were served by multiple newspapers, many of which were newspapers “of record”. It was also common for such newspapers to regularly print “vital statistics” in their classified section, which the received from whatever local agency was responsible for putting out such data.

    The number of reported birth announcements in the “vital statistics” section would generally be equal to the number of newspapers “of record” serving a given geographical area.

    I know this is a difficult concept for youngsters to grasp but yes, one would expect that Obama’s birth would have been announced in every local newspaper that printed these stats.

  66. avatar
    Expelliarmus March 14, 2009 at 3:51 am #

    That July posting contained a photocopy of what is most likely the first mention of Barack Obama ever published — a tiny, one-line birth notice in the Sunday, Aug. 13, 1961, edition of The Honolulu Advertiser:

    “Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, 6085 Kalanianaole Highway, son, Aug. 4.”

    The exact same notice appeared the following day in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin. The numerous birth announcements above and below the Obama listing also were identical in both papers, which were unaffiliated, competing publications.

    Advertiser columnist and former Star-Bulletin managing editor Dave Shapiro was not at either paper in 1961, but he remembers how the birth notices process worked years later when both papers were jointly operated by the Hawaii Newspaper Agency — which no longer exists.

    “Those were listings that came over from the state Department of Health,” he said. “They would send the same thing to both papers.”

    See: http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20081109/NEWS01/811090361/-1/specialobama08

  67. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 14, 2009 at 7:25 am #

    The health department provided the list of new births that ended up at the newspapers. So every birth was identically listed in every paper that had birth announcements. Nothing in the least bit odd there.

    As for attempts to stir up chaos, they do not seem to be coming from the Obama side. BERG, TAITZ, APUZZO, DONOFRIO, etc.

    It’s not just that another birth certificate wouldn’t help, it would add legitimacy to the controversy, making the chaos worse.

  68. avatar
    Ian Gould March 14, 2009 at 7:54 am #

    “YOUR ACTIONS will not be taken lightly” in this context fairly obviously translated into “You traitors are gonna get yours.’

    And to repeat an earlier question, other than the fact I disagree with you on this issue what in any of my posts here lead you to assume i’m a liberal.

  69. avatar
    thisoldhippie March 14, 2009 at 8:55 am #

    I found this article this morning and thought it was interesting. With such documentation as listed here, I still find it amazing that someone would say President Obama was born in Kenya – for which there is no documentation.

    http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20081109/NEWS01/811090361/-1/specialobama08

    Also, had a thought, (I know, scary isn’t it?). There has been question as to why a marriage certificate for Ann Dunham and Obama Sr. has not been located, but the divorce papers have. In Georgia and in some other states in the 60′s and 70′s, (up through the 90′s here), common law marriage was recognized. Because of that, when the relationship ended you were supposed to go through the divorce process to make it legal.

  70. avatar
    bogus info March 14, 2009 at 9:36 am #

    I also think it would open the door for nutcases/fringe groups to demand things from our elected officials in the future–unreasonable things. Just because someone runs for public office or is elected to public office, in my opinion, does NOT mean that they give up their rights to privacy.

    Example being regarding medical records. Why on earth would someone need to know that a candidate had undergone certain procedures that have absolutely no bearing on their ability to hold that office? Procedures such as a vasectomy, bilateral tubal ligation, breast implants, cosmetic surgery as examples. Other examples would be prescription medications such as contraceptives and fertility drugs. This is medical information that has absolutely no bearing on a candidates ability to perform his or her duties as an elected official in my opinion.

  71. avatar
    thisoldhippie March 14, 2009 at 11:52 am #

    Well, our dear friends at Plains Radio were unaware that I have access to my work computer from home – giving me a different IP address. Here are the responses, without my posts.

    SC

    Mar 13, 09 – 8:15 PM FoxNews talks about passports and Birth certificates
    forgery. FoxNews discussed that Birth certificates are easy to forge and that they are refered to as “Breeder documents”.
    Did Obama use a forged Birth certificate? There is not official State of Hawaii SEAL or signiture on his.

    State: ID
    SC
    Mar 13th, 2009 – 8:45 PM Re: FoxNews talks about passports and Birth certificates
    Me
    If you see a SEAL and signiture, your a lying piece of crap, Blind, and an a complete fool.
    End of your bullshi*

    State: ID
    SC
    Mar 13th, 2009 – 8:57 PM Re: FoxNews talks about passports and Birth certificates
    Me;
    Wrong, you are relying on the FactCheck images which is the second forgery attempt.
    The SEAL does NOT contain the following – “State of Hawaii” and “Department of Health”, as per the State of Hawaii Vital Records.
    See the ACTUAL e-mail from the State of Hawaii -here:

    http://nobarack08.wordpress.com/

    Two sets of document forgeries, and your attemting to use one as proof of authencity. Sorry, your BS does NOT fly.
    Fact
    State: ID
    SC

    Mar 13th, 2009 – 9:42 PM Re: FoxNews talks about passports and Birth certificates
    Me;
    Wrong and strike 3.
    I have done the investigating MYSELF. As a geneologist and reasearcher with over 15 years in records, I can state that the Obama one is a forgery.
    I recieved the e-mail from the state of Hawaii.
    No third party or anyone else has attempted to convince meor alter my findings.
    My youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/syc1959 is my own produced documentation along with showing how to create your own Obama BC.
    Fact.
    Again you fail and spread lies.

  72. avatar
    thisoldhippie March 14, 2009 at 11:59 am #

    Whoa – I can’t even open his link. I guess I really have been banned from all of them!

  73. avatar
    Uncle Billy Wonders March 14, 2009 at 2:43 pm #

    What happened to my recent comment? Maybe I left it under a different post?

  74. avatar
    Hitandrun March 14, 2009 at 3:57 pm #

    Doc: “Reason tells me that if Birth Certificate Mark I caused more problems than it solved, then Birth Certificate Mark II would likely do the same thing.”

    H&R: Not so. A properly attested vault document would demolish the birther case for rational citizens of good will.

    myson: “Also after the BC, the birther[s] also want other records…”

    H&R: I’d encourage Mr Obama to continue stonewalling on all other records, save the one directly impinging on Constitutional eligibility, i.e, the vault document (or if needed, a hospital birth registration).

    myson: “The certifying authority aka HI has a policy where nobody but the actual person is permitted to request a certificate.”

    H&R: Not so. Eligible requesters are not limited to the actual person. In any event, this doesn’t explain why the actual person, BHO, doesn’t request it. And the “dam[n] certified copy” by no means bears the same probative weight as its vault source.

    nbc: “He has produced the document.”

    H&R: He has NOT produced the vault document, which was Heavy’s point.

    Zuzu: “The fact is that there is no relevant information contained on the ‘long form’ birth certificate that isn’t contained on the COLB.”

    H&R: Not so. Proper attestation on the vault document would demolish the birther case.

    Regards,
    Hitandrun

  75. avatar
    Hitandrun March 14, 2009 at 4:13 pm #

    On the Decline and Fall front:

    http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.printable&pageId=91613

    Arnold S., take note!

    Hitandrun

  76. avatar
    Expelliarmus March 14, 2009 at 5:17 pm #

    Hawaii does not recognize common law marriage.

    That Stanley Ann Dunham filed for divorce indicates that she thought she was married.

    There are other possibilities — thought it is rank speculation. However, she was very young at the time and probably easily influenced by Obama Sr. The story is that they secretly got married in Maui. A wedding requires a license and filing of paperwork to be legitimated. It is possible that Obama Sr. arranged a faux wedding for his naive bride, with the ceremony but without the paperwork. He knew he was still married in Kenya and would have had reason to want to avoid entering a bigamous marriage in the US (not to mention that he was a cad who probably didn’t want to be tied down) – and the “wedding” would have taken place very soon after Dunham would have realized she was pregnant. I’m sure Obama Sr. could easily have bribed someone to perform a mock ceremony.

  77. avatar
    Ian Gould March 14, 2009 at 5:26 pm #

    Any Kenyan in the 1960′s who had an opportunity to get US citizenship through marriage to a US citizen would probably have leapt at it.

    As for his previous marriage in Kenya, it was probably not recognised by US law (most marriages under traditional law aren’t).

  78. avatar
    NBC March 14, 2009 at 6:05 pm #

    H&R: Not so. A properly attested vault document would demolish the birther case for rational citizens of good will.

    as did the properly attested certification of live birth presented by Obama.

  79. avatar
    Expelliarmus March 14, 2009 at 6:53 pm #

    Hitandrun: I DARE you to do the following. Send an email to the Hawaiian Dept of Health with the following question:
    “What are the current procedures for a person who was born in Hawaii to obtain a certified copy of their long-form, vault certificate?”

    The email is vr-info@mail.health.state.hi.us

    Please report back to us on any response you get.

  80. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 14, 2009 at 7:30 pm #

    As you well know the vault record cannot rule out fraud. Just recently a local registrar in New Jersey plead guilty to inserting birth documents into the county registry and then issuing birth certificates.

    http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/nj/press/files/ande1028_r.htm

  81. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 14, 2009 at 7:31 pm #

    My doctor has told me to avoid WND for health reasons.

  82. avatar
    Koyaan March 14, 2009 at 8:32 pm #

    Works for me.

    I’ll say one thing though, the guy’s a complete buffoon.

    Was just watching the “Obama Birth Certificate Fraud Proof” video. He shows his certificate and notes that the date it was registered was some days after his birth.

    Then he says that Obama’s was registered on the same day of his birth, saying this should cause some concern.

    The guy is either blind, or just flat out lying because Obama’s certificate has his date of birth as August 4th, and the date of registration as August 8th.

    k

  83. avatar
    Expelliarmus March 14, 2009 at 11:50 pm #

    You’d think so, but the evidence seems pretty clear that Barack Obama Sr. never attempted to get US Citizenship and that he returned to Kenya after obtaining his Master’s degree at Harvard — even though by that time he had met a 2nd American woman (Ruth Nidesand) who he later married. But that 3rd marriage did not occur until after he had already returned to Kenya — so it appears that Obama Sr. did not want to resettle in the US or become a Citizen.

    We know he did hold a government position when he returned to Kenya – I do not know whether Kenya would have recognized dual citizenship or whether it would have had an impact on his ability to hold a government job in Kenya– it is very possible that Barack Sr.’s personal ambitions would not have been furthered by US Citizenship.. Again, it might have been a legal entanglement he preferred to avoid.

  84. avatar
    myson March 15, 2009 at 2:10 am #

    H&R some things attributed to me were not stated by me though i support those comments. However i will comment that now that Obama knows (beyond a shadow od doubt) that even a vault copy will not stop birthers its best for him to just keep quiet for now until when he absolutely must show any other document. He has shown what constitute a BC in Hawaii he need do no other thing. Has it occured to you that not one iota of proof has been presented that a person not born in HI was issued an HI BC so far !! if it can be proven that HI systematically gave COLB or BC to pple not born there then i will support the need to show the vault & not until

  85. avatar
    myson March 15, 2009 at 2:30 am #

    Isnt this research your side should do so you can show us how wrong we are ?

    It seems no one does any independent research except that which given to them by the Birther stars (O, B & D), has anyone being able to debunk the truth that there was no travel to Pakistan in 1981 ? Birther just repeat the allegation against all the evidence that no such ban was in place !!!

    So uncle please do research then present it to counter any truth researched on this site & others. We will gladly read it & cross check; If you’re right we will state so openly here & if need be apologise, ball is now in your court !!!

  86. avatar
    NBC March 15, 2009 at 2:33 am #

    has anyone being able to debunk the truth that there was no travel to Pakistan in 1981

    Yes, this site has done so. There was a travel ADVISORY not a ban

    Time to apologize I guess.

    Why not educate yourself before digging your own hole?

  87. avatar
    thisoldhippie March 15, 2009 at 6:59 am #

    Thanks for the info re: common law marriage in Hawaii. Georgia no longer recognizes it either. Truth is, it’s a moot point anyway, isn’t it? President Obama was born in the US and that’s really the only issue.

  88. avatar
    thisoldhippie March 15, 2009 at 7:01 am #

    What got me was how very quickly I was attacked the minute I posted an opposing view. My post was not confrontational, only questioning, but SC’s post was rude and accusatory. There really is no room for disagreement.

  89. avatar
    thisoldhippie March 15, 2009 at 7:08 am #

    I saw this on Plains this morning. Obviously they have God on their side. Maybe we should just give in now? (And yes, I am being fascitious).

    The South

    Mar 14, 09 – 7:05 PM Chief Justice John Roberts, was put in his position to SHRED the U.S.Constitution from within!

    Chief Justice Roberts, is a DIRT BAG
    State: OK

    Brother J

    Mar 14th, 2009 – 9:54 PM Re: Chief Justice John Roberts, was put in his position to SHRED the U.S.Constitution from within!

    We must pray diligently every day for Chief Justice Roberts to walk through the clouds and emerge valiant with the people. At that time, we can then forgive him and wish prayers of goodness for him and his family. The prayers of a million gets heard. Tell that to Chief Justice Roberts. Which would he prefer on his side, the divine superiorly intelligent God or rich half demented mortal and balding dirtbags?

  90. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 15, 2009 at 8:20 am #

    To be fair, there is one foreigner who got a birth certificate (fraudulently) from Hawaii that says he was born in Hawaii. It happened in 1904.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/01/hawaiian-birth-certificate-its-a-fake/

    It’s important to make one distinction. While not the case in 1961, Hawaii does now register births in some cases to persons born out of state, but such certificates do not say the named person was born in Hawaii.

  91. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 15, 2009 at 8:26 am #

    Details and links here: http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2008/12/barack-obama-traveled-to-pakistan-on-an-indonesian-passport/

    None of this came from birthers. To the nObama credit, we got the Hawaiian newspaper announcement (one) through the PUMA site, Texas Darlin. I’ve gotten a few things from the Freepers too. Everybody shares material on the court case documents and status.

  92. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 15, 2009 at 8:29 am #

    I think we should all pray for our government leaders.

  93. avatar
    myson March 15, 2009 at 9:52 am #

    Thanks Doc, i aware of this case which is why i say ‘systematically’ as against the exceptions (in life there will always be the exceptions & mistakes no matter what man does).
    It just seems wired that apart from the case above no one anywhere has been able to show that HI issues BC stating some onewas born in HI to pple not born there !!
    Not even one case has been highlighted !

  94. avatar
    Hitandrun March 15, 2009 at 2:49 pm #

    Expelliarmus,

    What is your point?

    Hitandrun

  95. avatar
    Zuzu March 15, 2009 at 3:00 pm #

    You did not address my point, H&R. There is no relevant information contained on a long form certificate that is not contained on Obama’s COLB.

    And the COLB is “properly attested,” by the way.

  96. avatar
    Hitandrun March 15, 2009 at 3:04 pm #

    myson,
    I misaattributed one of notha’s comments to you. My apologies to you both.

    Let me repeat. A properly attested vault document will demolish the birther case for reasonable citizens of good will, though perhaps not for those bred in Nobot fever swamps. Hence their ringmasters’ need to always add backup Donofrio arguments of quite limited cogency and appeal in case BOH releases the vault confirmation of his Hawaiian birth.

    Hitandrun

  97. avatar
    NBC March 15, 2009 at 3:12 pm #

    But a properly attested certification of live birth has been presented and is prima facie legal evidence. What more do you want?

    Born in Honolulu, registered 4 days after birth…

    Case appears to be resolved.

  98. avatar
    Hitandrun March 15, 2009 at 3:22 pm #

    Zuzu,
    The adduced CnOLB contains no physician, midwife, or other signatures of 1961 witnesses to Baby Obama’s Hawaiian birth. NONE! A valid source document would be fully and properly attested. The issue as a potentially growing threat to Mr Obama’s legitimacy would then fade into oblivion. The larger issue of our lax incompetent vetting officialdom and of our slanted in-the-tank mainstream journalism would remain:

    http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.printable&pageId=91649

    Hitandrun

  99. avatar
    Zuzu March 15, 2009 at 4:15 pm #

    I said no relevant information was included in the long form that was not on the COLB. I am aware the long form includes the name of the attending physician (or midwife), but that is not relevant as to the place or date of birth.

    Of course it adds the name of one (and only one) more “witness” to the birth of BHO. Perhaps that’s what you mean by “properly attested.”

    But the fact is the COLB bears the same official seal as the long-form document. It also bears the certification from the state registrar that it is a “true copy or abstract of the record on file at the Hawaii State Department of Health.”

    http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_9.jpg

  100. avatar
    Hitandrun March 15, 2009 at 4:47 pm #

    Zuzu,
    We’ve been over this ad nauseam on this excellent site. Thanks to Mr Obama’s unwise and impolitic obstructionism, we do not know the nature and provenance of the vault document itself. While it is most likely a properly attested hospital generated long-form CteOLB confirming beyond reasonable doubt Baby Obama’s Hawaiian birth, Mr Obama for whatever reasons (perhaps he feels he is championing privacy rights, or the issue is still too insignificant, or the timing isn’t right) has chosen not to release it and put the matter to rest, even for those who wish him well. Until he does, all the excuses, evasions, and distortions of his Obot claque will continue to ring hollow.

    Hitandrun

  101. avatar
    Zuzu March 15, 2009 at 4:56 pm #

    Just as well, Dr. C. Displays of such stupidity as this tend to be exasperating:

    The filing continued with the warning, “If MR. OBAMA is not constitutionally eligible to serve as President of the United States, then no act that he takes is, arguably, valid, the laws that he signs would not be valid, the protective orders that he signs would be null and void, and every act that he takes would be subject to legal challenge, both in Courts of the United States of America, and in International Courts, and that, therefore, it is important for the voters to know whether he, or any candidate for President in the future, is eligible to serve in that office.”

    It is simply unbelievable that a law school graduate would not know about, or even bother to research, the long-standing doctrine of de facto officers. For example:

    The doctrine which gives validity to acts of officers de facto, whatever defects there may be in the legality of their appointment of election, is founded upon considerations of policy and necessity, for the protection of the public and individuals whose interests may be affected thereby. Offices are created for the benefit of the public, and private parties are not permitted to inquire into the title of persons clothed with the evidence of such offices, and in apparent possession of their powers and functions. For the good order and peace of society, their authority is to be respected and obeyed until, in some regular mode prescribed by law, their title is investigated and determined.

    Norton v. Shelby County, 118 U.S. 425, 441

    Really, unbelievable.

  102. avatar
    Zuzu March 15, 2009 at 5:09 pm #

    Well, we actually do know the “nature and provenance” of the long form certificate.

    For example, based on the information on the COLB, we know that the original certificate of live birth was filed with the registrar four days after Obama’s birth. Thus, it was not a late-filed certificate. Nor did the original show a foreign birthplace (even if state law had allowed it at the time). We know the long-form document showed his mother and father’s names, his date and time of birth, and the city and county of his birth. We also know from the certification by the state registrar that all this information appears on the long form document and that that document is on file with the Hawaii Dept. of Health.

    The fact that the birth announcement appeared in two separate Honolulu papers within a week of the filing of the original document with the registrar supports this information. The birth announcement appears in the section of the paper for “Health Bureau Statistics” and at least two researchers who have contacted the paper and the health dept. confirm that the information came from the health dept (vital records section), and not the families.

  103. avatar
    Expelliarmus March 15, 2009 at 5:18 pm #

    This is the logical equivalent of refusing to accept someone’s driver’s license as evidence that they are authorized to drive, and instead insisting on seeing the original copy of the score sheet from the driver’s test, along with the signature of the DMV examiner.

  104. avatar
    Zuzu March 15, 2009 at 5:29 pm #

    It reminds me of the old SBVT days.

    No matter how much documentation Kerry provided for his VN and reserve service, no matter how many documents he posted online, or allowed biographers and reporters to access, it was never enough for the slime boaters. “He must be hiding something, we just don’t know what.” “Okay, so the Navy documents prove Kerry earned his medals … but wait, wait, he wrote those reports! Yeah, that’s the ticket!”

    The birthers learned well.

  105. avatar
    Hitandrun March 15, 2009 at 5:56 pm #

    Zuzu,

    The officer de facto doctrine is simply a judicial concoction designed to legitimate usurpation and validate invalid acts at the judge’s discretion, unless the situation is specifically addressed by relevant local statute. It is a stare decisis for usurpers and intruders, and smacks of the divine right of kings where the successful usurper, on the basis of that success, becomes God’s anointed until replaced by the next usurper.

    Hitandrun

  106. avatar
    Zuzu March 15, 2009 at 6:01 pm #

    Just curious…would you be willing to post the content of that e-mail, with personal info deleted? Would be tres interesting.

    Thanks!

  107. avatar
    Zuzu March 15, 2009 at 6:03 pm #

    My comment 3/15 @6:01pm was to richCares 3/13 @10:16 pm.

    Nesting problems again.

  108. avatar
    Zuzu March 15, 2009 at 6:33 pm #

    Dear H&R, I suggest you do a little more research before placing your bets on this one.

    As mentioned by the court, the doctrine exists not for the protection of the officer de facto, but for the public and third parties relying on the acts of that officer. If you read a little further along in the case, you would see that the court points out that in the absence of such a doctrine it would be nearly impossible for any public official to conduct official business.

    In addition, for the doctrine to apply, the officer must have have taken office under color of title, recognized by those with authority to elect or appoint the officer, and exercising his or her authority only under that authority and under color of law.

    It would be interesting to see a “relevant local statute” that could get around holdings of the USSC (based on centuries of common law), not to mention that pesky old “Contract Clause” of the United States Constitution.

  109. avatar
    richCares March 15, 2009 at 7:59 pm #

    zuzu
    here is email
    Email from Hawaii – Reference to my daughter is deleted!

    Your request for Birth Certificate for **************************
    We issue only computer-generated certificates of birth. Long form is not available.

    Please check our website at
    http://www.hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/vital_records.html
    for information about ordering certificates and verifications.

    Other information can be found at
    http://www.hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/index.html

    To expedite an order, there are several choices:

    1. If you are on Oahu, come to our office in Honolulu and place the order.
    You can usually receive birth, marriage, and death certificates while you
    wait, assuming they are available and ready to be issued. Older death
    certificates are either mailed or picked up the next week. Our office closes
    at 2:30 PM for obtaining certificates. Picture ID is required. Personal checks are not accepted.

    2. A relative can come to our office in Honolulu and obtain the certificate
    and mail it to you. Or you can give written notarized authorization (or
    power of attorney) to a friend to obtain the certificate and then they can
    send it to you. Picture ID is required.

    Aloha,

    kd

    Vital Statistics & Records
    Office of Health Status Monitoring
    Hawai`i Department of Health
    1250 Punchbowl Street
    Honolulu, HI 96813

  110. avatar
    Zuzu March 15, 2009 at 8:08 pm #

    To richCares:

    Very interesting. Thank you !

  111. avatar
    richCares March 15, 2009 at 8:14 pm #

    zuzu
    re: Obama’s BC
    all in Hawaii know that’s all you or Obama can get, you may call them to confirm this if you wish, Birther’s won’t call, it destroys one of their talking points!
    phone to call (also email) on Hawaii site:
    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/index.html

    what’s amazing is that it is so easy to check, yet they won’t, they rely on Orly type sites, that is much more than ignorance, just ask heavy!

  112. avatar
    Zuzu March 15, 2009 at 8:42 pm #

    Birthers are lazy researchers? Say it ain’t so!

  113. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 15, 2009 at 9:14 pm #

    H&R. I realize we have some semantic differences, but I still feel that you refuse to acknowledge what a certified copy is. The full faith of the State of Hawaii says that the COLB is a true copy of the original registration. The COLB says Obama was born in Honolulu in 1961. One cannot rationally reject the integrity of Hawaii stated on one piece of paper and accept it on another. If someone believes that Hawaii lies and fakes documents, then no document from Hawaii has any validity. Only uninformed or irrational persons (or persons whose thinking I simply do not understand) reject the COLB. There is no reason to think that these same people will magically become informed or rational about the second document. Someone who is prejudiced beyond reason or delusional or listens unquestioningly to third parties who lie is not going to respond to logic or evidence.

  114. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 15, 2009 at 9:16 pm #

    Seeing a copy of the vault adds nothing to the nutcase who will believe anything if it goes against Obama.

  115. avatar
    Uncle Billy Wonders March 16, 2009 at 1:31 am #

    myson: why do you assume I have a side on this issue (or whatever side you refer to)? Seem like most here, including you, are all squared off along party lines.

    This does interest me, so I’ll keep looking into it and will try to bring only fresh info to the discussion. This blog has the most intelligent discussion on the topic and is a real treat.

  116. avatar
    Uncle Billy Wonders March 16, 2009 at 1:39 am #

    …and then there’s the “Pandora’s Box” argument which says that even if there is a big hidden treasure in the birth controversy, we shouldn’t be pursuing it because it would lead to further destabilization at a time when we really don’t need it.

    The problem with that logic is that this is the same trick being used with the banks. Too big to fail. We have to prop them up and keep feeding them cash. OR ELSE! “You don’t want to go there” is the implication. Baloney. (Didn’t intend to set up a straw man there.. it was just a fleeting thought)

  117. avatar
    myson March 16, 2009 at 3:38 am #

    Actually, i’m not American so i dont really have a side per se, however i did prefer POTUS Obama over the others & have followed these issues since Jul 08.
    As a lawyer i have an interest in the law should be followed, so i read up on the relevant laws governing NBC & others to see if Obama qualifies. I become convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that according to the relevant laws existing in 1961 when Obama was born he met ALL the requirement to become POTUS so to me following the challenges then became more of an hobby than a quest. I have posted on OC & others that the constitution of the USA has been followed to the letter in Obama & anyone who wants to challenge his eligibility must do it in accordance with the constitution i.e. congress qualifies him & if by there action or inaction his votes are accepted then he is the President.
    The pple bringing the challenges in the manner so far they’ve used are the ones not respecting the USC; challenges are allowed through congress, same way they can remove him. I had also expected the challenges to be backed up by evidences, but so far all we hear is someone said this, some said that etc nothing concrete, laws are misquoted or completely ignored, birth in Kenya under colonial rule (near impossible) etc. For example we have a claim that Maya, Obama sis has an hawaian COLB, but absolutely no proof has been produced to back this claim
    How can anyone take the birther serious they have NO real evidence but only there opinions. have you noticed all the cases except Leo Don’ cases are looking for evidence by way of discovery not that they have the evidence to back up there claim.
    So i support the truth & so far only Obama has been speaking the truth on this issue .

  118. avatar
    Zuzu March 16, 2009 at 4:58 am #

    By the way, H&R, you might also come up with a more accurate term than “usurper” when talking about officers de facto.

    By definition, an officer de facto has a color of title or right to the office, while a usurper has neither lawful title nor color of title or right to the office.

  119. avatar
    Zuzu March 16, 2009 at 5:22 am #

    I’ll post a better source here. The earlier cite relied on American jurisprudence but was a Philippine text; the case I’m linking to here sets out the AmJur (and McQuillan/AmJur) language itself.

  120. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2009 at 6:47 am #

    Disinformation is a tool in information warfare that weakens the enemy through distraction, erosion of popular support, and demoralization. Now there are possibilities here…

    1) The questions about Obama’s eligibility are a disinformation campaign from any number of groups that want Obama out.
    2) The questions about Obama’s eligibility are a disinformation campaign from any number of groups that want to do damage to the United States.
    3) The questions about Obama’s eligibility are a result of innocently created rumors and urban legends, fueled by a general dislike of Obama and anxiety about the economy.
    4) The questions arise from facts and well-reasoned suspicions.

    Only number 4 is demonstrably false (see 200 related articles on this web site).

  121. avatar
    Heavy March 16, 2009 at 8:50 am #

    Sorry, Ian. I forgot. You’re a centrist. My bad!

  122. avatar
    Ian Gould March 16, 2009 at 9:35 am #

    You have no idea what my politics are. I could be a leftist, a centrist, a rightwinger or a libertarian.

    Newsflash, if 10% of the American population believe the birther theory (which I find unlikely) a very substantial majority of self-described conservatives don’t.

  123. avatar
    Heavy March 16, 2009 at 10:59 am #

    Ian, if you support this usurper I know exactly what your politics are.

  124. avatar
    NBC March 16, 2009 at 11:21 am #

    Me too: A supporter of the United States Constitution.

  125. avatar
    RIck A Hyatt March 16, 2009 at 11:23 am #

    ()bama is nothing more nor less than a long-time & well groomed infiltrator, spy & Manchurian Candidate. Of which MO & methodology I am very, very well familiar with as a life-long espionage operative, myself. The nice thing is that the CIA has known about him since the ’70′s, at least (I was TOLD as much), and has, in essence, been counter-run, since. It will only take for Ginsberg to resign for us to get our Executive Branch back. To know who’s infiltrated the Judicial is clear in all those judges who have refused to enforce the Constitution on just this point. And as to the Legislative, simply visit my site to see what major scandal of infiltration, Murder-For-Hire, subsequent blackmail & control over our Congressmen by foreign and hostile espionage services wait in the wings. It’s called the “Chandra Levy” affair.

  126. avatar
    NBC March 16, 2009 at 11:29 am #

    ROTL, that should feed the souls of the paranoid a bit…

  127. avatar
    Zuzu March 16, 2009 at 12:58 pm #

    I love it. The CIA was following Obama’s high school career.

    Comedy gold.

  128. avatar
    Hitandrun March 16, 2009 at 4:41 pm #

    Doc,
    Permit me one final swipe on this thread, then let it rest. While the adduced CnOLB identifies itself at the bottom as a ‘copy’ and ‘certificate’, Registrar Onaka’s official signature stamp is not so definitive, certifying the CnOLB as a “true copy or abstract of the record on file [...]“. Do you now conflate “true copy” and “abstract”? Was that Mr Onaka’s intent, or are they distinct entities? Mr Obama can most easily demolish the birther case by publicly releasing a certified “true” photocopy of the vault document, assuming it is properly attested. Government conspiracy is not the issue. As you note, the irrational swamp denizens will never be satisfied; all others will be. Let’s move on.

    Stay well,
    Hitandrun

  129. avatar
    Hitandrun March 16, 2009 at 4:49 pm #

    Zuzu,
    It’s been a while since I’ve studied the issue in detail. I urge you to do the same and get back to us. Meanwhile, can you tell us if legally the same usurper, given time, can become an officer de facto?

    My answer stands.

    Hitandrun

  130. avatar
    Zuzu March 16, 2009 at 5:43 pm #

    Yes, H&R, you do that. And when you do, you will have answered your own question.

  131. avatar
    thisoldhippie March 16, 2009 at 6:46 pm #

    He was “told” that the CIA knew about Obama? Also, if Ginsburg retires, doesn’t President Obama get to appoint her replacement?

  132. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2009 at 8:58 pm #

    Are you saying that prior to the invention of the photocopy machine there were no properly attested birth certificates? It’s just a fraction of our country’s history where photocopy machines have been available to make birth certificates.

    I suppose most folks subscribe to the myth that the “Alan” birth certificate from Hawaii is a copy of the full record in the vault in Hawaii. It’s not. It’s just a copy of the top part of page 1. So I guess by your definition it’s not a true copy either. (See: http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/sample-certificatelivebirth-hi-med2.jpg ). It’s just a matter of time after the vault copy comes out that someone figures out that there more document in there.

    By my definition, a “true copy” is any copy which contains information which accurately represents what’s in the original, not necessarily completely, but accurately.

  133. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2009 at 9:27 pm #

    More likely some high school kid that plays spy video games.

  134. avatar
    Ian Gould March 17, 2009 at 8:51 am #

    Noticed the conspicuous silence coming from Sean Hannity; Ann Coulter; Rush Limbaugh; Michelle Malkin and Ollie North on this issue?

    think they haven’t been bombarded by the birthers with letters and e-mails?

    They think these theories are full of crap, are they liberals too?

    Or have they been bribed or intimidated into silence?

  135. avatar
    Heavy March 17, 2009 at 10:00 am #

    Actually, what is keeping these folks from talking about this issue is capitalism. Something liberals despise.

    They waiting for the groundswell to get larger before they stick their necks out and risk the backlash.

  136. avatar
    NBC March 17, 2009 at 10:45 am #

    Ironically it is capitalism which is facing some backlash as large losses due to lack of oversight and poor planning has caused some large companies to beg the government for bailout moneys.
    But there is nothing wrong with capitalism, as long as it is properly balanced and kept in check.

  137. avatar
    HistorianDude March 17, 2009 at 11:23 am #

    I gotta tell ya… if the commie bastards in the 1970s actually believed that the “mulatto” son of a twice divorced, “miscegenating tramp” was a good subject to groom as a “Manchurian candidate” for US President 30 years later… they deserve to win. They had a lot more faith in the promise of America than we did at the time.

  138. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 17, 2009 at 11:28 am #

    Capitalism, left to its own devices, results in booms and busts. Regulation enforces transparency and the right of labor to bargain collectively. The middle class adds to economic stability.

    The decline of the middle class and labor unions and the reduction of regulation (which started when Reagan fired the air traffic controllers) changed a climate of steady economic growth from WW II up until that time, back into the boom and bust cycle.

    Busts suck.

  139. avatar
    NBC March 17, 2009 at 11:45 am #

    Love your sarcasm. Well said

  140. avatar
    Heavy March 17, 2009 at 11:50 am #

    Capitalism is the engine that keeps America running. It is cyclical by nature. Regulation KILLS all that capitalism gives birth to.

  141. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 17, 2009 at 12:34 pm #

    We are the real world.

    By the way, Heavy, for something to bite, there has to be a grain of truth in it.

  142. avatar
    Ian Gould March 17, 2009 at 1:49 pm #

    So you’re going with the “snivelling gutless cowards” option.

  143. avatar
    Hitandrun March 17, 2009 at 2:38 pm #

    Then why the need for the Onaka stamp to add “or abstract”? Isn’t this superfluous by your lights? The fact is we do not have the attestation in front of us. Obama adherents would do well to encourage him to publicly release the vault document and thereby demolish the birther case. While both the abstracted CnOLB and its vault document source may both be legally sufficient in most cases, the latter is clearly of superior probative weight and, if properly attested, would definitively establish Mr Obama’s Constitutional eligibility.
    Now let’s move on.

    Hitandrun

  144. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 17, 2009 at 3:24 pm #

    Onaka’s stamp is not necessary on the original vault record because it is already signed by a local and a state registrar. If someone could go to the vault any time someone wanted to verify a birth, we wouldn’t need certified copies (what is commonly called a “birth certificate”). Onaka’s stamp is necessary on a PHOTOCOPY of the vault record because he is the one legally empowered to say that the PHOTOCOPY is a true photocopy, and not a doctored photocopy (or a photocopy made out of whole cloth by the KGB). The PHOTOCOPY of the vault record would not be acceptable for passport without the signature and the seal. The abstract has the same requirements.

    Would you please explain how you are using the terms “probative weight” and “properly attested”?

  145. avatar
    kupuna March 22, 2009 at 3:31 pm #

    I’m part of a huge Hawaiian family & dabble in genealogy a little. As I’ve stated on other blogs, my genealogy file hasn’t spent so much time on my desk in years. I too called the DOH to see if there was any way I could get a copy of my long form, or of my mother’s “Standard Certificate of Birth” from the 1930′s. The answer is No. Fortunately, I already have my old green one, plus a microfiche of Mom’s she gave me in the 70′s. I was told “Don’t lose that because you’ll never be able to get a copy like that again.” I was also told that the Dept of Hawaiian Homelands now also accepts the short form, although that’s not updated yet on the webpage.

    Yes, Birthers won’t call & they believe that all 1.3 million of us here in Hawaii are just “in on it.”

  146. avatar
    Hitandrun March 22, 2009 at 4:28 pm #

    Doc,
    Good luck on your new look.

    Since your noteworthy effort and commitment are rapidly turning this blog into the indispensable site of record for eligibility issues, you might consider amplifying its search capability to include all text phrasing anywhere on the site. You might also consider adding a poster search feature where a given poster’s entries can be chronologically retrieved (newest first).

    On the YouTube and other AV features you embed (as in the Manning piece above), a simple caption with date and place of event would be helpful for orientation.

    Also is there any way of speeding up loading and transmission? I find navigation unduly slow even on rapid computers.

    Finally, in the past I’ve cut and pasted other postings onto my submissions with interspersed comments of my own, only to find the published post grossly truncated. Hope this problem has been solved.

    Again, good luck.
    Hitandrun

  147. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 22, 2009 at 4:49 pm #

    As you observe, only article text is included in the onboard search. For now, I suggest using Google with the additional search term “site:obamaconspiracy.org” (no spaces) to limit the search to this site. If I added a full-site search that includes comments integral to the site, it would probably be a Google search. Any feature I add has to be available as a WordPress plugin.

    One of the things that slows down loading of the site is the plugins. For example, you see the number of articles in each section under Conspiracies in the sidebar. It takes database accesses to count the articles each time you view a page (I probably should take that off). Whether it is Recent Posts, Recent Comments, The Lost Articles, Conspiracies or Links, database accesses are required to get the information to populate the sidebar (not to mention the main articles).

    There is something that I can do that should dramatically speed up the site (for users who are NOT logged in and who do NOT make a comment), and that is to use the caching option to store the pages as HTML rather than getting them from the database dynamically. I use an intermediate-level caching now. When the pages are HTML cached, no access statistics are recorded, so I don’t have a good way to compare traffic volume. However, now that traffic has reached over 130,000 page accesses so far this month, perhaps caching is what I need to do. Remember, if you are logged in, the cache is bypassed. Also making comments somehow interacts with the cache because the pages you view have to change to add what you just said!

    Try logging out and see if the site speeds up with the existing cache.

    The idea about the AV captions is a good one, although the information you ask about might not be readily available for me.

  148. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 22, 2009 at 5:02 pm #

    For some reason, there is a problem accessing a comment from user kapuna. Here it is again:

    I’m part of a huge Hawaiian family & dabble in genealogy a little. As I’ve stated on other blogs, my genealogy file hasn’t spent so much time on my desk in years. I too called the DOH to see if there was any way I could get a copy of my long form, or of my mother’s “Standard Certificate of Birth” from the 1930’s. The answer is No. Fortunately, I already have my old green one, plus a microfiche of Mom’s she gave me in the 70’s. I was told “Don’t lose that because you’ll never be able to get a copy like that again.” I was also told that the Dept of Hawaiian Homelands now also accepts the short form, although that’s not updated yet on the webpage.

    Yes, Birthers won’t call & they believe that all 1.3 million of us here in Hawaii are just “in on it.”

  149. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 22, 2009 at 7:23 pm #

    The blog is now in full caching mode and statistics turned off. Check your brakes and tires.

  150. avatar
    TRUTH March 22, 2009 at 7:40 pm #

    Im rather dissapointed in your dodging the question Dr. Your a very sharp writer and extremely deep researcher, but you do the democrat thing and dodge your very own question even, “why not show the real one”.

    It is such a simple question, but as you have done for many months now you simply revert to YOUR OPINION of why the COLB is a qualifying document and then you make fun of people that have complained ever since Obama had that COLB posted. Did it ever occur to you they DID NOT WANT to see the stupid COLB in the first place, but instead wanted to see what most every honest American has in their homes, their Original Birth Certificate. THAT is why they are complaining about the COLB, not just because they want something to complain about as you so conveniently accuse them of, the Easy Way out of avoiding THE QUESTION… “Why Won’t He just SHOW the Real Birth Certificate?”

    I’ll answer that for you. It is because it would show differences from the data that was entered in the computer for the COLB. The COLB had false information entered by a human, and is not completely factual. NO, I do not KNOW that, but that is a “Possibility” and one you avoid to admit. I will say, if it were ME being questioned, and I was on vacation for a week IN HAWAII, I would have done the adult professional thing and had authenticated copies made and verified by multiple law enforcement and conservatives. But whats he do? Avoids it. Matter fact, what he probably did was talk to the people telling the lies for him, assuring them good things to come.

  151. avatar
    TRUTH March 22, 2009 at 7:48 pm #

    What a stupid comment, nobody thinks 1.3 million people are in on it. The best cover ups have to be kept to a minimal of people. And by the way, I still have my Sons original Green B.C. from Honolulu 1989. It has all the important information on it, unlike THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

  152. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 22, 2009 at 8:15 pm #

    No, the statement by the health department officials that Obama’s birth was registered according to regulation has to mean that the computer record is correct. If it varied from the vault record they inspected, then it would not be according to regulation. So I do not admit the possibility that the COLB varies from the vault record. Usually these things are double-keyed for accuracy (two different operators key every record, and they are compared by machine for accuracy).

  153. avatar
    TRUTH March 23, 2009 at 1:28 pm #

    Again, defend the COLB, defend the man, just don’t answer the question because there is no good reason, other than it would show something detrimental to his cause, OTHERWISE he would have done so.

  154. avatar
    NBC March 23, 2009 at 1:56 pm #

    There is no evidence that it would show anything detrimental. In fact, the best explanation is that it distracts the opposition from focusing on Obama’s policies, instead they are wasting their time on this issue.
    After all the COLB shows that Obama was born in Honolulu, an event which was registered 4 days after his birth.

  155. avatar
    Zuzu March 23, 2009 at 4:41 pm #

    And exactly what “important” information is that, please? Be specific.

    Here’s a thought: why don’t you ask the Hawaii Department of Health for your son’s long-form birth certificate now? Then report back to us.

  156. avatar
    TRUTH March 23, 2009 at 8:06 pm #

    Blah blah blah blah….You sound like a Broken Record NBC. You got the barrack-bug bad. There is no known cure for it as of yet. It makes you believe everything BHO says and has you Avoid answering questions with straight answers.

  157. avatar
    Zuzu March 23, 2009 at 10:30 pm #

    Still waiting for you to answer my prior question, T.

    How about you ask the Hawaii Dept. of Health for your son’s long-form birth certificate now, and tell us what answer you get?

  158. avatar
    Gordon March 23, 2009 at 10:45 pm #

    That’s funny,I have managed to go to the Army, get a passport, work in my chosen profession for many years. I haven’t seen my old long form birth cert. since I was 17 yrs. old. I know many people with similar situations. According to the State Dept. the COLB is a legal birth cert. most counties only issue that form of birth certificate, so why would anyone be held to a different standard? The reason is apparent.

  159. avatar
    kupuna March 24, 2009 at 8:33 pm #

    Dr C,
    Mahalo for reposting my comment of March 22. I’m not sure why it didn’t post normally but will try again to see if I’m able to leave a comment.

    I’m Hawaiian, live in Honolulu. My family records back to my grandfather, show 4 different styles of BC. I’m not sure when they started issuing the short form but I’ll confirm that I did recently call & ask if I could get a long form anymore. I was told no. The Dept of Hawaiian Homelands also now accepts the short form.

    On one of the images of Obama’s I’ve seen, the lower left corner has OHSM 1.1 (Rev. 11.01) I worked for the state in the 90′s & footers like that are there on many state docs to show which version of a form you’re using. As you’d expect, forms are updated every few years. Perhaps this format started in 2001? I guess I could call & ask.

    Again, Mahalo for the RELIABLE information & good laughs to be found here.

  160. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 24, 2009 at 8:43 pm #

    Looks like your posting works fine now. It could have been a problem with the old web site theme.

    Obama’s birth certificate was printed in June, 2007, according to the stamp on the back.

    Any time a birth certificate printed (in any jurisdiction), the birth certificate image is printed or copied onto contemporary security paper.

  161. avatar
    Heavy March 25, 2009 at 12:38 pm #

    What’s up with this, doc? I’m intrigued. Don’t keep me hanging!

  162. avatar
    Mark March 25, 2009 at 2:42 pm #

    Conspiracy theorists think that anyone who does not agree with them is ignorant of the “truth” or part of the conspiracy itself.

    Pretty simple, they are right because they say so.

  163. avatar
    Gordon March 25, 2009 at 5:29 pm #

    O/T didn’t you post something to the effect that Dr. Tatiz’s Stay application was denied by the SCOTUS? Brithers claim it was never on the docket.

  164. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 25, 2009 at 8:53 pm #

    Here is the order dismissing the stay.

    http://www.supremecourtus.gov/orders/courtorders/012609zor.pdf

  165. avatar
    ch April 29, 2009 at 8:16 pm #

    DrC, You say a Hawaiian official corroborated the COLB. That is not what happened. A government state official gave testimony to a newspaper that yes, indeed, they had a valid birth certificate. A government official gave witness, not under oath, to the presence of a document that nobody saw, to a newspaper, and not under any court oath. This is usually called hearsay. I would not hire a surgeon who showed me an article that had a university official telling a newspaper that yes, indeed, the surgeon graduated from their college. I would want to see the documents. You are easily fooled and easily satisfied. She never even said the internet document was the same as what she had, had the same information. She simply said, yes, indeed, they have a document. A government official who steps into the media to help a presidential candidate should be removed from their position. This action in itself shows the questionable character of that official. She betrayed her job. She took sides in an election, declaring to have documents nobody saw. She obvious is not qualified to do her job. You say that the COLB is adequate. You feel an electronic document is adequate information to prove presidential qualification. You are foolish to hire someone on the basis of an internet document. You say you trust the document because it was verified by Factcheck. Who verified Factcheck. Since when do you use the testimony of an organization linked to the person in question? Again, your logic leads you astray. The COLB does not show the hospital, has not signatures of witnesses. The newspaper article is not proof of birth. Nobody hires you if you come in with a newspaper article showing where you were born. The linking of Obama hiding his birth certificate, which I think you agree there is a longer certificate being hidden, and his hiding college records and passports, combines as evidence injurious information is being hidden, and “the need to reveal is greater than the need to conceal.” You mock the “birthers.” I call them the “truthers” and the opposition the “liars.” The “revealers” versus the “concealers.” You are quite content with a president who is afraid to show his past. That says something curious about your personality. We did not ask Obama to step into the public eye, so his privacy would be “invaded.” He plays the Alinsky game, but the more he hides, the more transparent he is. You feel he has more important things to do than pull a silly old birth certificate. I hope when the brain surgeon picks up the knife, the hospital is not waiting for his credentials….I hope the hospital says, sir, you cannot operate until we have your credentials. I am sure you understand. Our Hospital and its patients depend on our insistence on verification of qualifications before surgery. Is this a way that you can understand? Verification, no short forms, no games. Open up the records or find another job. Obama has destroyed trust in his ability to lead. If he cannot even verify his own birth, show his own travel records, show his own college records, lead his own life in a transparent fashion, it is ludicous to think he can lead others who are acting in a higher legal manner than he is. Pretty funny. The Truthers Versus the Liars. God bless America.

  166. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 29, 2009 at 8:41 pm #

    ch:

    You say a Hawaiian official corroborated the COLB. That is not what happened.

    “Corroborate” means “to make more certain”. The Hawaiian official statement makes the COLB “more certain” since by their statement, Obama’s birth was registered in Hawaii.

    You’re mistaken about the official statement being hearsay because it was given to a newspaper. It was also published as an official document that remains to day on the State of Hawaii web site.

    To follow your analogy, if the surgeon who was going to operate on me was on the state medical board web site as certified in surgery, I wouldn’t ask to see his certification document.

    You do know that the Hawaii Health Department director is a Republican, no. Typical of a birther to use character assassination in place of evidence. And don’t get why you say she never saw the document, as she said:

    Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawaii, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

    Not only did she see it, but in the company of Dr. Alvin Onaka as witness (someone who is highly regarded in the vital records community — Google ONAKA NAPHSIS).

    I mock birthers a lot, not because they want the truth, but because they tell lies (like that travel ban to Pakistan fantasy) and because they assassinate the character of decent people (like you did to Dr. Fukino) and the fake evidence (Ron Polarik’s forgery images), and are too lazy to do their own research, but rather believe whatever chain email appears in their mailbox. I mock their lack of critical thinking.

  167. avatar
    Expelliarmus April 29, 2009 at 9:42 pm #

    Technical clarification.

    The document posted on the DOH web site is “hearsay”. Hearsay= an out of court statement offered to prove the truth of the matter asserted. See: Federal Rules of Evidence 801.

    The DOH web site document would not be admissible in court, even if printed out and mailed to the court.

    The paper COLB — as depicted in the factcheck photos, is ALSO hearsay, but it WOULD BE ADMISSIBLE because it falls under a recognized exception to the hearsay rule for records of vital statistics: “(9) Records of vital statistics. Records or data compilations, in any form, of births, fetal deaths, deaths, or marriages, if the report thereof was made to a public office pursuant to requirements of law.”) See Rule 803(9).

    The value of the statement on the Dept of Hawaii web site is that it provides highly reliable information to voters to rebut the false internet rumors concerning the birth certificate.

    They birthers rely have number of rhetorical tools they use to detract attention from the fact that their claims are entirely false without any evidentiary support whatsoever. One is to accept any statement or claim that supports their theory as truth, without any evaluation whatsoever (example: travel ban to Pakistan) and at the same time refuse to acknowledge information from reliable sources by insisting on courtroom standards of proof.

    The obfuscate and they distract… because they have no evidence, no facts to support their wholly false assertions.

  168. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 29, 2009 at 9:49 pm #

    Thanks for that enlightening educational comment. Learn something new every day.