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1961 Hawaii Race codes: disclosed!

It now seems almost certain that in 1961, the penciled codes on Hawaiian Certificates of Live birth were unique to that department and did not follow any federal standard.

In the wee hours of this morning John Woodman published a remarkable article on his blog: Exclusive! “New Girl” Confirms Her Parents’ Race — and I Crack the Actual Entries, Confirming that Arpaio’s Codes Don’t Match the Hawaii Codes, Either, in which he documents that Hawaiian race code “3” designates “part Hawaiian” (not “Indian” as claimed by the Cold Case Posse).

I had disclosed that a few of us knew the identity of the person whose birth certificate Jerome Corsi redacted (inadequately) and published in WorldNetDaily. Mr. Woodman actually contacted the holder of that certificate, who had loaned it to Corsi at the request of a “friend.” She confirmed that her father and mother are of mixed ancestry including Hawaiian. Mr. Corsi, if you are reading this, SHE WANTS HER CERTIFICATE BACK! It was a loan and the only one she has.

Now, thanks to the discovery of another new certificate registered in April of 1961 (signed by none other than Verna K. Lee herself), we have another code:

xxxx certifcate_Detail

Code 2 is “Hawaiian.” This certificate also confirms Woodman’s result that code “3” is “part Hawaiian.”

For the benefit of those not familiar with the coder’s handwriting, here’s another example of the “2” from the same form.

xxxx_certifcate_sex_detail

So here are the codes so far:

Race Code
Caucasian/White 1
Hawaiian 2
Part Hawaiian 3
What “African” was called 9

 

Let me remind you of the faux code table that the Cold Case Posse presented:

image9

This  table that the Cold Case Posse tried to foist on the nation as the codes used to code authentic birth certificates from Hawaii, claims that Code 2 was “Negro” and code 3 is “Indian.” Verna K. Lee states that no mistakes were made on her watch and so this proves beyond any doubt that Corsi, Zullo and company lied both about having ANY 1961 race code table, federal or Hawaiian.

In addition to presenting a false code table (actually one from 1968), the Cold Case Posse also played another trick. They made the false assertion that using their table, there was an inconsistency in Obama’s birth certificate because according to them “9” means “not stated” and Obama’s father’s race was stated. However, code “9” (even it were listed correctly in the table) does not mean “not stated” but “unknown or not stated.” African is an ambiguous race (there are black, white, Arab and Asians in Kenya). It is a perfectly normal response to code “unknown” when the racial designation doesn’t tell the coder what race to use.

Based on my experience with race codes in health data systems that goes back to 1974, I have never seen a race table where Hawaiian appeared near the top. White was always first, followed by black and then other stuff.  Only a uniquely-Hawaiian code set would be structured like this. The last code in the table is usually the catch all for what doesn’t fit the preceding codes. On some items, code “0” is used for “not stated” such as the “Date Last Worked” item under mother. I have also seen “0” on death certificates when the occupation is not stated.

So what is code “9?” If I had to guess, it’s “other” but we really don’t know; however, there is no evidence of internal inconsistency in Barack Obama’s birth certificate and the codes on it.

Thanks to the individual who pointed me to the certificate featured in this article.

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271 Responses to 1961 Hawaii Race codes: disclosed!

  1. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 9:17 am #

    The long article, the so-called “super top secret one” that had to do with federal coding, has proved to be irrelevant based on this new information. It won’t be published.

  2. avatar
    Potter, J. July 27, 2012 at 9:52 am #

    Someone loaned Corsi a vital document? Oy.

    So I was off by 1, having guessed “Chinese”, forgetting about Part-Hawaiian–D’oh!

    All of the code schemes I have looked at, when considered in the light of where they are used, reflect the population of the place. I was guessing Chinese because Caucasian would be most predominant, followed by Hawaiian, then Chinese, Filipino, Japanese, Korean, etc …. and I forgot the bit about any mix with Hawaiian is coded “Part Hawaiian”.

    So close.

    Interesting that the Mother identified as multiples as they made an effort to squeeze it all in.

    Oklahoma follows the OMB model race + ethnicity, and codes Native American as ’1′, at least in data from institutions to the states. I was also surprised to see they are up to XML, have been since at least 2010. Go Okies!
    http://www.ok.gov/health/documents/2010%20Inpatient%20Manual%20XML.pdf

  3. avatar
    foreigner July 27, 2012 at 9:56 am #

    I cannot see a “2″ there

  4. avatar
    richCares July 27, 2012 at 10:01 am #

    foreigner “I cannot see a “2″ there”
    that’s OK, the gist of the article is that Corsi is a lying sack of shinola

  5. avatar
    Ernst Stavro Blofeld July 27, 2012 at 10:05 am #

    Mike Zullo said July 18th, as a guest on the Peter Boyles show that: “The number 9 for the federal code, and the number 9 per the State of Hawaii’s own statistical code, means ‘information not provided’ or ‘information not stated”.

  6. avatar
    gorefan July 27, 2012 at 10:05 am #

    Just out of curiosity, any idea why the race of father and kind of business always seem to have the same code?

    What year is the BC that was sent to you?

  7. avatar
    American Mzungu July 27, 2012 at 10:21 am #

    Doc said: African is an ambiguous race (there are black, white, Arab and Asians in Kenya). It is a perfectly normal response to code “unknown” when the racial designation doesn’t tell the coder what race to use.

    I agree with Doc’s point that “African” might have been ambiguous for an American coder and it would have been perfectly normal to code “unknown” if the coder didn’t know how to decipher the stated “African” race.

    However, “African” was NOT ambiguous as a race identifier in Kenya and it would not have been ambiguous to Obama (Sr.)

  8. avatar
    Scientist July 27, 2012 at 10:22 am #

    “Verna K. Lee states that no mistakes were made on her watch”

    Assuming Ms Lee actually said that and that the statement is true, Ms Lee would be the first and only human being in recorded history to have achieved faultless perfection. She really wasted her life toiling in the bowels of the Hawaii DoH; she ought to have been Pope or the Dalai Lama.

  9. avatar
    Reality Check July 27, 2012 at 10:27 am #

    Doc

    I believe Hawaii separated the federal code for “Hawaiian and part Hawaiian” into distinct codes in order to administer the Hawaiian Homelands program whose existence predated Hawaii statehood.

    In 1921, the federal government of the United States set aside as approximately 200,000 acres (810 km2) in the Territory of Hawaii as a land trust for homesteading by Native Hawaiians. The law mandating this, passed by the U.S. Congress on July 9, 1921, was called the “Hawaiian Homes Commission Act” (HHCA) and, with amendments, is still in effect today. The act is often also attributed to the year 1920, when it was written. The avowed purpose of the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act was to rehabilitate Native Hawaiians, particularly in returning them to the land to maintain traditional ties to the land. The Hawaiian politicians who testified in favor of the act specifically referred to the devastation of the Hawaiian population and the loss of the land, and the need for Hawaiians to be able to grow traditional crops such as kalo (taro).

    The Hawaiian Homes Commission Act included a controversial definition of “Native Hawaiians” as persons with 50% or more Hawaiian blood. Prince Kūhiō Kalanianaʻole, the territory’s non-voting delegate to Congress, wanted a blood quantum of no less than 1/32.

    Primary responsibility for administering the trust has rested with:

    1921–1960: the Hawaiian Homes Commission (a federal agency)
    1960–present: the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands (DHHL, a state agency)[2]

    That is, responsibility was transferred to the state level after Hawaii became a state in 1959.[3] The U.S. federal government nonetheless retains significant oversight responsibilities, including the exclusive right to sue for breach of trust.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian_Homelands

  10. avatar
    Ernst Stavro Blofeld July 27, 2012 at 10:29 am #

    So in essence, there is no actual confirmation that these codes are indeed accurate from a authentic 1961 Hawaiian Code Manual?

  11. avatar
    Thomas Brown July 27, 2012 at 10:29 am #

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld:
    Mike Zullo said July 18th, as a guest on the Peter Boyles show that: “The number 9 for the federal code, and the number 9 per the State of Hawaii’s own statistical code, means ‘information not provided’ or ‘information not stated”.

    So, Mike Zullo is a big ol’ LIAR? In other news: Sun Rises in East.

  12. avatar
    gorefan July 27, 2012 at 10:33 am #

    American Mzungu: It is a perfectly normal response to code “unknown” when the racial designation doesn’t tell the coder what race to use.

    I would not be surprised to find the “9″ only means “other”.

  13. avatar
    Thomas Brown July 27, 2012 at 10:33 am #

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld:
    So in essence, there is no actual confirmation that these codes are indeed accurate from a authentic 1961 Hawaiian Code Manual?

    All the pencil marks so far have been in alignment with ONLY the real 1961 Hawaiian codes Doc received through a FOIA request, and which he has published. They ARE NOT and CANNOT BE the codes from the 1968 Hawaii standards published by Zullo, nor the Federal coding at the time.

    The Cold Case Pussies exist for one purpose only : TO LIE.

  14. avatar
    foreigner July 27, 2012 at 10:41 am #

    “the Doc” hasn’t received the Hawaiian codes yet, only the federal ones.

  15. avatar
    Rickey July 27, 2012 at 10:42 am #

    Of course, what this proves beyond a shadow of a doubt is that Corsi knew that the codes on the birth certificate for “New Girl” do not match the codes which the CCP claimed to have.

    So there was no misunderstanding, no unintentional error. it was a flat-out lie.

  16. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 10:48 am #

    The same distinctive handwriting is used to code all known examples of the certificate, and if you are familiar with the “2″ on other fields, this one is obvious.

    It may be that you suffering to the birther aversion to evidence.

    foreigner: I cannot see a “2″ there

  17. avatar
    foreigner July 27, 2012 at 10:50 am #

    the feds had separated “Hawaiian” and “Part-Hawaiian” on the death-certificates
    from 1959-1961 but zero death certificates ever were had “Hawaiian”,

  18. avatar
    Reality Check July 27, 2012 at 10:51 am #

    I was incorrect. The codes for Hawaiian and part Hawaiian were separated on the 1961 federal code table. It appears that Hawaii shifted them up in their table.

    Since the states sent microfilm copies of their certificates to the US for coding it may be that the pencil codes were exclusively for Hawaii’s own use and ignored by the federal coders. The could have even been added after the certificates were microfilmed.

  19. avatar
    Ernst Stavro Blofeld July 27, 2012 at 10:53 am #

    Thomas Brown: All the pencil marks so far have been in alignment with ONLY the real 1961 Hawaiian codes Doc received through a FOIA request, and which he has published.They ARE NOT and CANNOT BE the codes from the 1968 Hawaii standards published by Zullo, nor the Federal coding at the time.

    The Cold Case Pussies exist for one purpose only : TO LIE.

    You’re saying Doc has a genuine copy of the 1961 Hawaiian Code Manual received from a FOIA request? When did this happen Thomas? I thought he requested just the Federal Codes through the FOIA.

  20. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 10:54 am #

    Keep in mind that Zullo previously said that the BC codes were applied so that the State could sell data to the federal government, meaning they were federal codes. That didn’t happen. The faux 1961 code table he showed and called “1961 vital statistics instruction manual” was not a from a 1961 manual from either the federal government or the state of Hawaii.

    Zullo is a liar, so whatever he said on the Peter Boyles show makes no difference. Further, the federal code never said “information not provided” or “not stated.” It said “unknown or not stated.” Reading the real 1961 manual, “unknown” is not the same thing as missing. Unknown means “we can’t be sure how to code the field.”

    Further, Zullo has never presented anything to make anyone think that he has access to any Hawaiian codes. If he did, why are the codes presented in the video fake?

    As any law enforcement officer knows, the prisons are full of people claiming that they are innocent.

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld: Mike Zullo said July 18th, as a guest on the Peter Boyles show that: “The number 9 for the federal code, and the number 9 per the State of Hawaii’s own statistical code, means ‘information not provided’ or ‘information not stated”.

  21. avatar
    American Mzungu July 27, 2012 at 10:55 am #

    gorefan: I would not be surprised to find the “9″ only means “other”.

    I wouldn’t be surpised either with a designation of “other nonwhite”. Based on the 1961 federal coding instructions it would surprise me now if he would have been coded as “Negro”. It would really really surprise me if Obama (Sr.) or Ann had declined to enter a race.

  22. avatar
    The Magic M July 27, 2012 at 11:00 am #

    Scientist: Assuming Ms Lee actually said that and that the statement is true, Ms Lee would be the first and only human being in recorded history to have achieved faultless perfection. She really wasted her life toiling in the bowels of the Hawaii DoH; she ought to have been Pope or the Dalai Lama.

    Well, the Pope is by definition infallible if he speaks “ex cathedra”, so he doesn’t need actual perfection.
    I’d rather have had Ms Lee on the board of the major banks where mistakes have cost the world zillions of money.

    Then again, I assume Ms Lee never said that, or that she said it in a different context (such as “did people do sloppy work and not really care what they coded?” – of course I would answer “not on my watch” about my department as well, but that wouldn’t mean I was claiming perfection).

  23. avatar
    Keith July 27, 2012 at 11:05 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    The same distinctive handwriting is used to code all known examples of the certificate, and if you are familiar with the “2″ on other fields, this one is obvious.

    It may be that you suffering to the birther aversion to evidence.

    It is just barely there though. Was the negative image really necessary?

  24. avatar
    Bob July 27, 2012 at 11:05 am #

    That the Birthers can’t even admit that something as mundane and innocuous as the 1961 code table for filling out birth certificates is the 1961 code table for filling out birth certificates tells you all you need to know about them.

  25. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 11:09 am #

    1961

    gorefan: What year is the BC that was sent to you?

  26. avatar
    foreigner July 27, 2012 at 11:36 am #

    foreigner: the feds had separated “Hawaiian” and “Part-Hawaiian” on the death-certificatesfrom 1959-1961 but zero death certificates ever were had “Hawaiian”,

    sorry, that’s not correct. I checked again. There were deaths coded as “Hawaiian”
    in 1959 and 1960 but not in 1961. It’s not clear to which group they were
    assigned in 1961.

    race on 1959 death certificates, federal coding
    ————————————————
    01,1461769,White
    02,187959,Black
    03,4547,Indian
    04,1566,Chinese
    05,2200,Japanese
    06,401,Aleut
    07,230,Eskimo
    08,497,Filipino
    09,236,Hawaiian
    10,396,Part-Hawaiian
    11,371,All other races
    (For 1959 California and Michigan, Code 6
    is All other races (groups codes 6-11)

    1960:
    01,1505101
    02,196010
    03,4528
    04,1620
    05,2354
    06,43
    07,212
    08,847
    09,234
    10,450
    11,583

    1961:
    01,1498332
    02,192791
    03,4446
    04,1677
    05,2208
    06,54
    07,226
    08,811
    10,439
    11,538

  27. avatar
    Potter, J. July 27, 2012 at 11:39 am #

    Keith: It is just barely there though. Was the negative image really necessary?

    It may have been received as a negative, a photostat or some such.

  28. avatar
    gorefan July 27, 2012 at 11:42 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Keep in mind that Zullo previously said that the BC codes were applied so that the State could sell data to the federal government, meaning they were federal codes

    In his interview with ABC15 he points to the Race of Father box and says this is a Federal requirement that they used for statisitical purposes. He then pionts to the kind of business box and says this is a Hawaii code.

    “This was a federal coding, number nine for statistical purposes, for the federal government would take birth certificate information and enter it on magnetic tape, back then in numerical codes. Number nine for the federal guideline “not stated”, blank field. This however is not a nine for federal code, it is actually for their state code.”

    http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_phoenix_metro/central_phoenix/video-arpaios-lead-investigator-talks-obama-birth-certificate-to-abc15

  29. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG July 27, 2012 at 11:44 am #

    Wow, Corsi really stepped in it this time!

  30. avatar
    Potter, J. July 27, 2012 at 11:46 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Zullo previously said that the BC codes were applied so that the State could sell data to the federal government,

    What a whopper! I missed that one.

  31. avatar
    Ernst Stavro Blofeld July 27, 2012 at 11:47 am #

    Wait a minute. All these birth certificates I have seen (Obama’s, Nordyke Twins) have the same code number outside the box of Race of Father and box of Kind of Business or Industry. Doc. You state above your exhibit image this:

    “, thanks to another new certificate (signed by none other than Verna K. Lee herself), we have another code”

    When you say another new certificate, are you referring to a certificate of another individual other than Woodmans ‘New Girl’?

  32. avatar
    Keith July 27, 2012 at 12:17 pm #

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld: Wait a minute. All these birth certificates I have seen (Obama’s, Nordyke Twins) have the same code number outside the box of Race of Father and box of Kind of Business or Industry.

    Coincidence.

    They are two different data items with two different domains – meaning two different code sets are required.

    Coincidence.

  33. avatar
    Rickey July 27, 2012 at 12:29 pm #

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld:

    When you say another new certificate, are you referring to a certificate of another individual other than Woodmans ‘New Girl’?

    Doc has obtained a new 1961 birth certificate. To my knowledge, the only people who have seen the unredacted birth certificate for “New Girl” are Corsi and his fellow liars at WND and the CCP.

    The CCP claimed to have a copy of the 1961 manual, but at the press conference showed an image of the 1968 manual. The 1968 manual says that Code 3 means “Indian,” but “New Girl” has confirmed that neither of her parents were Indians. This proves that Corsi knew that the manual they presented was not the 1961 manual, because the codes on the birth certificate for “New Girl” do not match the codes which the CCP claimed to rely upon.

  34. avatar
    gorefan July 27, 2012 at 12:39 pm #

    Keith: Coincidence.

    I got to believe it is more than coincidence.

    President Obama – father’s race 9, kind of business 9

    Nordyke Twins – father’s race 1, kind of business 1

    New Girl – father’s race 3, kind of business 3

    OCT 1961 BC – father’s race 2, knid of business (?)

  35. avatar
    gorefan July 27, 2012 at 12:40 pm #

    Rickey: To my knowledge, the only people who have seen the unredacted birth certificate for “New Girl” are Corsi and his fellow liars at WND and the CCP.

    And Paul Irey. According to the original article in WND.

  36. avatar
    Potter, J. July 27, 2012 at 12:42 pm #

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld: Wait a minute. All these birth certificates I have seen (Obama’s, Nordyke Twins) have the same code number outside the box of Race of Father and box of Kind of Business or Industry.

    It’s a tiny data sample. With apparently short lists of possibilities for each field. In any small data sample, coincidence will be high. ‘Student’ and ‘Military’ are also very common, particularly military …. in Hawaii … at the height of the Cold War. Surely a Bond villain is aware of Pearl Harbor.

    http://militarybases.com/hawaii/

    This is pattern detection run amok. Too few records to make any meaningful interpretation.

  37. avatar
    gorefan July 27, 2012 at 12:44 pm #

    foreigner: 01,1461769,White
    02,187959,Black
    03,4547,Indian

    What are those 01, 02, 03? Are they actually on the report or did you add them?

  38. avatar
    Ernst Stavro Blofeld July 27, 2012 at 12:58 pm #

    Rickey: Doc has obtained a new 1961 birth certificate.

    Ok then. Is this ‘other’ birth certificate Doc is showing us from Kapiolani or another hospital? We need Doc to post the year of this certificate. Is it 1961 or another year? If it is another year then the codes might have changed at a later date. Doc…………..could you post the whole image of the certificate so we can get more information from the document? As of now, we have little to go by from your small image.

  39. avatar
    gorefan July 27, 2012 at 1:04 pm #

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld: Is it 1961 or another year?

    He did answer that upthread – 1961

  40. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 1:12 pm #

    To quote Yoda, there is another.

    There was a person in Louisiana who was charged with keeping the records of a statewide health registry (I think it was the cancer registry). It was her job to insure that the same person was never entered twice. When that system was automated, deduplication experts went over and over the data and could find no duplicates. It was the only instance where these experts found a perfectly clean set of data.

    Scientist: Ms Lee would be the first and only human being in recorded history to have achieved faultless perfection.

  41. avatar
    Ernst Stavro Blofeld July 27, 2012 at 1:14 pm #

    gorefan: He did answer that upthread – 1961

    Thank you. I scanned over it apparently. I am still curious about the hospital.

  42. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 1:15 pm #

    The federal codes in 1961 also separated Hawaiian and part-Hawaiian.

    Reality Check: I believe Hawaii separated the federal code for “Hawaiian and part Hawaiian” into distinct codes in order to administer the Hawaiian Homelands program whose existence predated Hawaii statehood.

  43. avatar
    Potter, J. July 27, 2012 at 1:18 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: To quote Yoda, there is another.

    Did they also determine she had also avoided accidentally deleting anyone who should not have been, meaning, who had not been duplicated?

    I, too, take Verna’s supposed statement with a grain of salt. It’s a common phrase in small talk. What, she’s going to say, “Yeah, we screwed up all the time?” Considering whether she said it at all, or whether WND talked to her at all, comes with a significantly larger rock of salt ;)

  44. avatar
    Potter, J. July 27, 2012 at 1:20 pm #

    gorefan: I got to believe it is more than coincidence.

    Do any of the BCs list the same race or same employment as another BC, but with a different code for the same answer? Again, small data set.

  45. avatar
    foreigner July 27, 2012 at 1:24 pm #

    gorefan: What are those 01, 02, 03? Are they actually on the report or did you add them?

    federal coding numbers for death certificates for 1959-1961

    however, in the mortality report they tell a different story again.
    (so did they in the 1961 natality case)
    Hawaiian and Part-Hawaiian grouped together.
    Well, maybe this is just what they used for the tables,
    while the public death certificates had a more detailed coding.

    mysterious how Hawaiian disappeared in 1961 – I think it
    went into the “White” – group (death certificates, not birth certificates)

  46. avatar
    Chef July 27, 2012 at 1:25 pm #

    Rumor has it that someone has the tangible paper copy LFBC Hawaii sent to the White House.

    Just a rumor.

  47. avatar
    Potter, J. July 27, 2012 at 1:31 pm #

    Chef: Just a rumor.

    US President engages in rumormongering!

  48. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 1:33 pm #

    I intended, by the title of the article, that it be understood that all the codes discussed in the article were from 1961, but I have updated the article to specifically state that the new image I provided comes from March, 1961. (The birth was in March and the certificate was in April.)

    While the image comes from a public source, I will not republish it because of this site’s policy against revealing personal information about non-public persons.

    There is no hospital name on the certificate; it is a street address, which today is a commercial business. Since a hospital or institution is listed by name, we can conclude that this was not a hospital. The birth location is a little over 30 miles from the usual address of the mother.

    A doctor signed the certificate.

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld: Ok then. Is this ‘other’ birth certificate Doc is showing us from Kapiolani or another hospital? We need Doc to post the year of this certificate. Is it 1961 or another year? If it is another year then the codes might have changed at a later date. Doc…………..could you post the whole image of the certificate so we can get more information from the document? As of now, we have little to go by from your small image.

  49. avatar
    Jim July 27, 2012 at 1:33 pm #

    Chef:
    Rumor has it that someone has the tangible paper copy LFBC Hawaii sent to the White House.

    Just a rumor.

    It’s not a rumor…it’s TRUE! In fact, it was shown to a room full of reporters who were allowed to touch it, take pics of it, report on it. Heck, you might even take a tour of the White House and see it framed and available for public viewing.

  50. avatar
    WEP July 27, 2012 at 1:35 pm #

    Chef:
    Rumor has it that someone has the tangible paper copy LFBC Hawaii sent to the White House.

    Just a rumor.

    It kinda makes sense that someone would have it.

    Why would they throw it away?

  51. avatar
    Ernst Stavro Blofeld July 27, 2012 at 1:49 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I intended, by the title of the article, that it be understood that all the codes discussed in the article were from 1961, but I have updated the article to specifically state that the new image I provided comes from March, 1961. (The birth was in March and the certificate was in April.)

    While the image comes from a public source, I will not republish it because of this site’s policy against revealing personal information about non-public persons.

    There is no hospital name on the certificate; it is a street address, which today is a commercial business. Since a hospital or institution is listed by name, we can conclude that this was not a hospital. The birth location is a little over 30 miles fromthe usual address of the mother.

    A doctor signed the certificate.

    Thanks for responding to my post. Can you tell us what the code number is to the left of the bracket where ‘Name of Hospital’ is entered ?

  52. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 1:49 pm #

    No, that’s not correct. The codes do not match my 1961 FOIA federal code set either. My codes are true federal codes, but they don’t match this new information, so I therefore conclude that federal codes were not used.

    Thomas Brown: All the pencil marks so far have been in alignment with ONLY the real 1961 Hawaiian codes Doc received through a FOIA request, and which he has published. They ARE NOT and CANNOT BE the codes from the 1968 Hawaii standards published by Zullo, nor the Federal coding at the time.

  53. avatar
    Ernst Stavro Blofeld July 27, 2012 at 1:54 pm #

    Jim: It’s not a rumor…it’s TRUE!In fact, it was shown to a room full of reporters who were allowed to touch it, take pics of it, report on it.Heck, you might even take a tour of the White House and see it framed and available for public viewing.

    How many other reporters who were there have come forward on record besides Savannah Guthrie stating they felt the raised seal?

  54. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 1:55 pm #

    I suppose it could be gross negligence.

    My working hypothesis is that the lie originated at The Daily Pen blog. It is plausible that Corsi, a conspiracy theorist deeply invested in Obama’s alleged ineligibility, swallowed The Daily Pen story hook, line and sinker and was mentally averse to any thought of how he might fact-check it. The Daily Pen guys at the time suggested that they had obtained their federal code manual from the NCHS in Maryland. Corsi may have believed that they had the manual, and never saw it himself. Zullo is, of course, just a mouthpiece for Corsi adding the patina of law enforcement to what is actually just birther blog and WorldNetDaily material. Zullo is a patsy. Corsi may be a patsy too.

    I hope this is an albatross around Corsi’s neck as much as that fake Bush document haunts Dan Rather.

    Rickey: So there was no misunderstanding, no unintentional error. it was a flat-out lie.

  55. avatar
    Rickey July 27, 2012 at 1:57 pm #

    Potter, J.: ‘Student’ and ‘Military’ are also very common, particularly military …. in Hawaii … at the height of the Cold War. Surely a Bond villain is aware of Pearl Harbor.

    http://militarybases.com/hawaii/

    There also was a Naval Air Station at Barbers Point on Oahu.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Air_Station_Barbers_Point

  56. avatar
    Stanislaw July 27, 2012 at 1:59 pm #

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld: How many other reporters who were there have come forward on record besides Savannah Guthrie stating they felt the raised seal?

    I should have known where this was headed. *sigh*

  57. avatar
    John Woodman July 27, 2012 at 2:03 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    The same distinctive handwriting is used to code all known examples of the certificate, and if you are familiar with the “2″ on other fields, this one is obvious.

    It may be that you suffering to the birther aversion to evidence.

    I do think it would be difficult for most people to readily discern a “2″ there. Perhaps you could publish some comparison of known “2″s that would illustrate the point.

    The “3″ in the mother’s race seems more clear.

  58. avatar
    Scientist July 27, 2012 at 2:03 pm #

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld: How many other reporters who were there have come forward on record besides Savannah Guthrie stating they felt the raised seal?

    WNDs White House correspondent Lester Kinsolving pronounced himself staisfied with the LFBC.

    Now that I have answered your question tell me do you really believe these fairy tales that an 18 year old travelled alone to Kenya to have a baby? That the State of Hawaii is part of some ginormous conspiracy and is verifying a fraudulent birth certificate?

    Come on and stop nit-picking and look at the forest. The entire birther scenario is absurd start to finish.

  59. avatar
    Potter, J. July 27, 2012 at 2:17 pm #

    Rickey: There also was a Naval Air Station at Barbers Point on Oahu.

    There are currently 11 bases (the militarybases.com link lists them all) on the islands …. but I don’t know how many there were in 1961. Probably not less!

    _____________

    Mouse Blofeld smells ….. cookies! Yum.

  60. avatar
    Ernst Stavro Blofeld July 27, 2012 at 2:20 pm #

    Scientist: WNDs White House correspondent Lester Kinsolving pronounced himself staisfied with the LFBC.

    Now that I have answered your question tell me do you really believe these fairy tales that an 18 year old travelled alone to Kenya to have a baby? That the State of Hawaii is part of some ginormous conspiracy and is verifying a fraudulent birth certificate?

    Come on and stop nit-picking and look at the forest.The entire birther scenario is absurd start to finish.

    My question was not addressed to you but since you took it upon yourself to not answer what I actually asked then let me ask you this. Did Kingsolving feel the seal and if he did do you have a link for verification?

  61. avatar
    Jim July 27, 2012 at 2:21 pm #

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld: How many other reporters who were there have come forward on record besides Savannah Guthrie stating they felt the raised seal?

    “The move came as a surprise to the press corps, many of whom had not shown up for Wednesday’s early-morning White House briefing. By the time word had spread that Obama would be making a 9:45 a.m. statement on the matter, however, the top anchors at all the networks had scurried into the briefing room.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/27/obama-birth-certificate-r_n_854248.html

    Now, what is more believable, that it was witnessed by the press or the CCP can call a PDF a forgery without ever seeing the underlying document?

    “If you believe the Cold Case Posse can tell a forgery from a PDF image on the web better than the entire press corps that saw the document the PDF was created from, you might be a birther”

  62. avatar
    Scientist July 27, 2012 at 2:22 pm #

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld: My question was not addressed to you but since you took it upon yourself to not answer what I actually asked then let me ask you this. Did Kingsolving feel the seal and if he did do you have a link for verification

    When you answer my question, I will answer yours. Do you beiieve the brither fairy tales regarding a trip to Kenya and a giant conspiracy involviing the State of Hawaii? It really only requires yes or no.

    Obfuscating over details is pointless if your basic story is bogus.

  63. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 2:23 pm #

    In the old days, Hawaii issued negative images. This is one of those. I used a photo program to reverse the image, and I used various enhancement techniques. Nothing really helped, so I showed the original at 100% resolution.

    Keith: It is just barely there though. Was the negative image really necessary?

  64. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 2:25 pm #

    That’s a misunderstanding. If I had a 1961 Hawaii manual, we wouldn’t be squinting at images.

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld: You’re saying Doc has a genuine copy of the 1961 Hawaiian Code Manual received from a FOIA request?

  65. avatar
    Ernst Stavro Blofeld July 27, 2012 at 2:27 pm #

    John Woodman: I do think it would be difficult for most people to readily discern a “2″ there. Perhaps you could publish some comparison of known “2″s that would illustrate the point.

    The “3″ in the mother’s race seems more clear.

    What you claim as a 2 in box 9 hasn’t completely sold me just yet. That rounded portion exposed could also be a rounded top half of a 3 as seen in box 12b. At least that is the way it looks to me.

  66. avatar
    Ernst Stavro Blofeld July 27, 2012 at 2:29 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    In the old days, Hawaii issued negative images. This is one of those. I used a photo program to reverse the image, and I used various enhancement techniques. Nothing really helped, so I showed the original at 100% resolution.

    Doc, can you show us the raised embossed seal?

  67. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 2:31 pm #

    Yes, this is different certificate from Woodman’s.

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld: When you say another new certificate, are you referring to a certificate of another individual other than Woodmans ‘New Girl’?

  68. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 2:32 pm #

    It’s a 3, sorry.

    gorefan: OCT 1961 BC – father’s race 2, kind of business (?)

  69. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 2:34 pm #

    Hey may have gotten that from Verna Lee because in subsequent years, they did sell data.

    Potter, J.: What a whopper! I missed that one.

  70. avatar
    Potter, J. July 27, 2012 at 2:37 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: they did sell data.

    But sell it to the Federal govt’? Why would the feds pay the states for it … and not in terms of providing funds to cover costs (if that ever happened) ?

  71. avatar
    GLaB July 27, 2012 at 2:39 pm #

    WEP: Why would they throw it away?

    They could just lend it to Corsi. Same thing.

  72. avatar
    Potter, J. July 27, 2012 at 2:42 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I used a photo program to reverse the image, and I used various enhancement techniques. Nothing really helped, so I showed the original at 100% resolution.

    It’s always best to show the straight scan at 1:1 … give chuckleheads less reason to cry “Alteration!”.

    But they will anyway.

  73. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 2:48 pm #

    Kinsolving provided no details as to why he was satisfied. I have a link to his interview somewhere but he has no account of interacting with the certificate in that interview. Savannah Guthrie was the one who felt the seal.

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld: Did Kingsolving feel the seal and if he did do you have a link for verification?

  74. avatar
    GLaB July 27, 2012 at 2:49 pm #

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld: How many other reporters who were there have come forward on record besides Savannah Guthrie stating they felt the raised seal?

    Has any reporter – some of whom surely read Guthrie’s tweats, FB, even interact with her personally – have any of them contested it? And have you contacted any of them for this “important” information? You’re not going to reach them on this blog, you know.

  75. avatar
    PaulG July 27, 2012 at 2:51 pm #

    Just to clarify, the snippet of BC you showed in “Cold Case Posse: The Sword of Damocles” is the one the woman sent to Corsi. This reverse image one is part of a different BC belonging to a different person. Correct?

  76. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 2:53 pm #

    First, and I want to be emphatic about this, the code numbers visible on some certificates to the left of the Hospital box are NOT numbers for the location of the hospital. They are codes for a field on the other side of of the firm, which we do not know anything about. I have a long article about this.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/03/decoding-the-long-form-part-1/

    The new certificate I obtained is cropped more closely than the Obama form and less of the gutter area is visible. No codes are apparent in this area on the form I have.

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld: Thanks for responding to my post. Can you tell us what the code number is to the left of the bracket where ‘Name of Hospital’ is entered ?

  77. avatar
    Scientist July 27, 2012 at 2:54 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Kinsolving provided no details as to why he was satisfied. I have a link to his interview somewhere but he has no account of interacting with the certificate in that interview. Savannah Guthrie was the one who felt the seal.

    Frankly the seal is simply another verification by Hawaii, along with the 382 verifications they have already made. While it may be necessary to get a passport, for the purposes of “showing the original”, a document without a seal, but accompanied by a letter from Hawaii and the verification given to Sect Bennett would amount to the same thing.

    Mr. Blohard hasn’t come up with a credible story to match his “questions”. I ask why that is so hard. Without that, you he is, in effect, alleging a forged document but with all the correct information on it.

  78. avatar
    justlw July 27, 2012 at 2:56 pm #

    GLaB: They could just lend it to Corsi.Same thing.

    Zing!

  79. avatar
    GLaB July 27, 2012 at 2:59 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: First, and I want to be emphatic about this, the code numbers visible on some certificates to the left of the Hospital box are NOT numbers for the location of the hospital. They are codes for a field on the other side of of the firm, which we do not know anything about. I have a long article about this.

    Be prepared to reiterate this many times in the coming days. There was a post on FreeRepublic yesterday claiming that the number to the left of the hospital on Obama’s LFBC indicates a home birth – the next birther meme.

  80. avatar
    justlw July 27, 2012 at 2:59 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Kinsolving provided no details as to why he was satisfied. I have a link to his interview somewhere

    That’d be this one.

    It’s a video interview. I listened to it a while back, don’t remember anything particularly revelatory other than that he seemed pretty much done with the whole BC thing at that point.

  81. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 3:00 pm #

    I have replaced the main image in this article. The original was a screen shot of the form, which among other things converted it from JPG to PNG with a conceivable loss of fidelity. I’ve cropped the original JPG and loaded that. I hoped it might be a little clearer, but I don’t think it is.

  82. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 3:17 pm #

    I can’t find any seal.

    The certified copy has the registrar’s certification on the apron of the form, indicating that the certified copy was printed in 1980.That’s where the seal should be. I don’t see anything.

    In addition, I have added another exemplar of code “2″ to the article so that you can compare. This should help disambiguate the number for the race code.

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld: Doc, can you show us the raised embossed seal?

  83. avatar
    Ernst Stavro Blofeld July 27, 2012 at 3:20 pm #

    I was just told Jerome Corsi is in Great Britain and wont be back until August 1st reporting his findings to Sheriff Arpaio.

  84. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 3:22 pm #

    That is right.

    PaulG: Just to clarify, the snippet of BC you showed in “Cold Case Posse: The Sword of Damocles” is the one the woman sent to Corsi. This reverse image one is part of a different BC belonging to a different person. Correct?

  85. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 3:23 pm #

    Another vacation from the CCP coffers?

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld: I was just told Jerome Corsi is in Great Britain and wont be back until August 1st reporting his findings to Sheriff Arpaio.

  86. avatar
    justlw July 27, 2012 at 3:25 pm #

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld:
    I was just told Jerome Corsi is in Great Britain and wont be back until August 1st.

    You can prove that, right? Do you have a recording or affidavit?

    Is there a copy of Corsi’s passport that we can see?

    How do you know it’s the same Jerome Corsi? Or the same Great Britain, for that matter? What proof do you have that Britain remains Great? It would appear Governor Romney has his doubts.

    At the very least, I’d like to hear from at least one other person who was told this. Perhaps Hugo Drax, or Rosa Klebb, could weigh in.

  87. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 3:26 pm #

    Well it’s derivative of a Daily Pen fraud, only they “figured out” by lying about other government documents, that it meant born outside the US. The codes are in the boxes for the values they represent. The left of the Hospital field is a different box altogether.

    GLaB: Be prepared to reiterate this many times in the coming days. There was a post on FreeRepublic yesterday claiming that the number to the left of the hospital on Obama’s LFBC indicates a home birth – the next birther meme.

  88. avatar
    nbc July 27, 2012 at 3:29 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: It may be that you suffering to the birther aversion to evidence.

    Confirmation bias.. Such a common affliction amongst the birthers and others whose genetics cause them to be unable to ingest new information which contradicts with their strongly held, group enforced beliefs.

  89. avatar
    nbc July 27, 2012 at 3:31 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Doc, can you show us the raised embossed seal?

    The numbers are the same as on the Nordyke document. Fools.

    How ignorant can one be that one has to let one’s fears guide one to conclude a home birth when the document clearly contradicts this.

    Have they no self respect? No honor or morals?

  90. avatar
    Ernst Stavro Blofeld July 27, 2012 at 3:33 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I can’t find any seal.

    The certified copy has the registrar’s certification on the apron of the form, indicating that the certified copy was printed in 1980.That’s where the seal should be. I don’t see anything.

    In addition, I have added another exemplar of code “2″ to the article so that you can compare. This should help disambiguate the number for the race code.

    I was really wanting to see that seal. That’s alright though. If it wouldn’t be much trouble but is there any possibility that you can post the whole certificate image and redact just the names and other information while leaving only the pertinent codes viewable? Some could think that each 3 exhibits you’ve posted might be from different certificates.

  91. avatar
    linda July 27, 2012 at 3:38 pm #

    I haven’t looked for statements by other reporters who were at the press conference, but there are images online of the short form birth certificate and a Verification, confirming the information on the LFBC posted on the White House website, which clearly show the raised seal.

    http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_6.jpg
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/96221269/HI-DOH-Official-Verification-of-President-Obama-s-Hawaiian-Birth

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld: How many other reporters who were there have come forward on record besides Savannah Guthrie stating they felt the raised seal?

  92. avatar
    Ernst Stavro Blofeld July 27, 2012 at 3:38 pm #

    justlw: You can prove that, right? Do you have a recording or affidavit?

    Is there a copy of Corsi’s passport that we can see?

    How do you know it’s the same Jerome Corsi?Or the same Great Britain, for that matter?What proof do you have that Britain remains Great?It would appear Governor Romney has his doubts.

    At the very least, I’d like to hear from at least one other person who was told this. Perhaps Hugo Drax, or Rosa Klebb, could weigh in.

    Grow up and act like an adult.

  93. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 3:40 pm #

    The NCHS has a contract negotiated by NAPHSIS to provide timely birth data in computer readable form to the federal government for statistical purposes. Vital records agencies stay afloat by selling data, to the NCHS and to the public. They also get paid for death data, and by the Social Security administration for timely notifications of deaths with verified social-security numbers. The NCHS also funds improvements in vital records systems so that they can get better data, the so-called “Cooperative Agreement.”

    See:

    http://www.naphsis.org/index.asp?bid=1021
    http://www.naphsis.org/index.asp?bid=968

    Potter, J.: But sell it to the Federal govt’? Why would the feds pay the states for it … and not in terms of providing funds to cover costs (if that ever happened) ?

  94. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 3:41 pm #

    Adults appreciate irony.

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld: Grow up and act like an adult.

  95. avatar
    foreigner July 27, 2012 at 3:44 pm #

    OK, I can see the 2 now.
    There is a little loop to the lower left and a little smudge
    to the lower right.
    Also a 3 at mother’s race and a 4 (?) at occupation

  96. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 3:48 pm #

    Reporters don’t think like birthers. They aren’t trying to find any possible crack to wedge a crazy theory in. For them, there was a press conference, the STORY was the Donald Trump’s Waterloo and that’s what they reported. Guthrie’s remark was exceptional, and probably indicates some knowledge of birthers. I wouldn’t doubt for a minute that she took that photo and made the remark for some birther she knew personally.

    linda: I haven’t looked for statements by other reporters who were at the press conference, but there are images online of the short form birth certificate and a Verification, confirming the information on the LFBC posted on the White House website, which clearly show the raised seal.

  97. avatar
    Scientist July 27, 2012 at 3:58 pm #

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld: I was just told Jerome Corsi is in Great Britain and wont be back until August 1st reporting his findings to Sheriff Arpaio.

    Given the great success Mitt has been having there, Corsi must be advising him.

  98. avatar
    Potter, J. July 27, 2012 at 3:58 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The NCHS has a contract negotiated by NAPHSIS to provide timely birth data in computer readable form to the federal government for statistical purposes.

    Thanks, Doc, I had not come across that aspect of the world of vital records. I see a reference to the agreement starting in 1973, and had noted the changes at NCHS around 1972. Still, calling these agreements selling is a stretch, in my mind at least. But I’m an outsider and a civilian; selling suggests to me that states are pitching the gov’t, “data for sale!”, rather than the cooperation outlined here. Which is why I called bull. Hearing it came from Zullo didn’t help either! ;)

  99. avatar
    Potter, J. July 27, 2012 at 4:00 pm #

    Corsi is digging through the British National Archives, Nicholas Cage style, right?

    Not bumming around the Olympics and soiling himself on fish and chips?

  100. avatar
    justlw July 27, 2012 at 4:01 pm #

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld: Grow up and act like an adult.

    This from someone who posts under the name of a spy novel villain. Excuse me if I’m not mollified.

  101. avatar
    nbc July 27, 2012 at 4:01 pm #

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld: How many other reporters who were there have come forward on record besides Savannah Guthrie stating they felt the raised seal?

    You can see the seal on the document itself but it requires some enhancements. Guthrie’s picture shows the seal as well IIRC.

  102. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 4:03 pm #

    I think it’s a 3.

    foreigner: 4 (?) at occupation

  103. avatar
    Scientist July 27, 2012 at 4:08 pm #

    Potter, J.: Corsi is digging through the British National Archives, Nicholas Cage style, right? Not bumming around the Olympics and soiling himself on fish and chips?

    He is going to come up with the startling discovery that Barack Obama Sr. was born in Kenya. .

  104. avatar
    justlw July 27, 2012 at 4:11 pm #

    foreigner: occupation

    “Kind of business or industry.”

    “Usual occupation” is the previous box (12a), not visible in this image.

  105. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 4:17 pm #

    It’s how they talk in the industry. In the context where I was typically around, they were trying to raise money to buy our super-duper new online vital records software. But I heard discussions of the Cooperative Agreement often at the NAPHSIS annual meetings I attended.

    Here is a cropped snapshot of our booth at NAPHSIS in Austin TX in 2000.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/babies.png

    Potter, J.: But I’m an outsider and a civilian; selling suggests to me that states are pitching the gov’t, “data for sale!”, rather than the cooperation outlined here

  106. avatar
    foreigner July 27, 2012 at 4:20 pm #

    http://magictour.free.fr/243.JPG

  107. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 4:21 pm #

    The Occupation is “Truck driver” and it is coded with what looks like a “6.”

    Typically one associates occupation and industry with death certificates.

    justlw: “Usual occupation” is the previous box (12a), not visible in this image.

  108. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 4:26 pm #

    I see your point. Particularly in reverse, I can see the “4″.

    foreigner:
    http://magictour.free.fr/243.JPG

  109. avatar
    Patrick McKinnion July 27, 2012 at 4:36 pm #

    Mr. Corsi! Where’s the Birth Certificate???

  110. avatar
    Majority Will July 27, 2012 at 4:55 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Typically one associates occupation and industry with death certificates.

    Unless you were one ambitious and resourceful fetus.

  111. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 27, 2012 at 4:58 pm #

    OK. See end of article.

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld: I was really wanting to see that seal. That’s alright though. If it wouldn’t be much trouble but is there any possibility that you can post the whole certificate image and redact just the names and other information while leaving only the pertinent codes viewable?

  112. avatar
    Jim July 27, 2012 at 5:38 pm #

    Majority Will: Unless you were one ambitious and resourceful fetus.

    Well, yeah. Come on now, didn’t you realize the President orchestrated this whole thing from the womb? He knew he would be President before he was even born. That’s why he took his mother on a long, difficult, and expensive trip alone while she was pregnant with him and he’s been leading the cover-up for over 50 years. :D

  113. avatar
    Northland10 July 27, 2012 at 6:20 pm #

    GLaB: They could just lend it to Corsi.Same thing.

    :lol:

  114. avatar
    donna July 27, 2012 at 6:47 pm #

    Majority Will: Unless you were one ambitious and resourceful fetus.

    lol obama, the poster fetus for the personhood amendment

    who knew?

  115. avatar
    Rickey July 27, 2012 at 7:21 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I suppose it could be gross negligence.

    My working hypothesis is that the lie originated at The Daily Pen blog. It is plausible that Corsi, a conspiracy theorist deeply invested in Obama’s alleged ineligibility, swallowed The Daily Pen story hook, line and sinker and was mentally averse to any thought of how he might fact-check it. The Daily Pen guys at the time suggested that they had obtained their federal code manual from the NCHS in Maryland. Corsi may have believed that they had the manual, and never saw it himself. Zullo is, of course, just a mouthpiece for Corsi adding the patina of law enforcement to what is actually just birther blog and WorldNetDaily material. Zullo is a patsy. Corsi may be a patsy too.

    I hope this is an albatross around Corsi’s neck as much as that fake Bush document haunts Dan Rather.

    My conclusion is based upon the fact that Corsi had the unredacted birth certificate for “New Girl” in his possession last fall. He therefore knew that neither of her parents were Indian. Nevertheless, he was complicit in touting the claim that the CCP had the 1961 codes. All he had to do was compare the codes they had with the “New Girl” birth certificate. If the CCP had the correct codes, the parents of “New Girl” should have been Indian. But John Woodman has confirmed that they weren’t Indian,

    It’s hard to believe that Corsi overlooked this due to carelessness or negligence. He was the one who redacted the birth certificate (or at least he arranged to have it redacted). Why did he redact the race of the parents in the first place? I suspect that Corsi believed that he was ensuring that there would be insufficient information left for anyone to figure out whose birth certificate it is. But someone figured out her name, you noted that the words which were redacted on the race boxes were too long to be “Indian,” and John Woodman then contacted “New Girl” and got to the bottom of it.

    If I could question Corsi about it, I would ask him this: “Last fall you obtained New Girl’s 1961 long form birth certificate. If the codes which you and the CCP claimed to be the 1961 codes were in fact the 1961 codes, both of New Girl’s parents should have been Indian. But you knew that her birth certificate says that her parents were not Indian, so how could you in good faith claim that you had the 1961 codes?”

  116. avatar
    Majority Will July 27, 2012 at 7:45 pm #

    Jim: Well, yeah.Come on now, didn’t you realize the President orchestrated this whole thing from the womb?He knew he would be President before he was even born.That’s why he took his mother on a long, difficult, and expensive trip alone while she was pregnant with him and he’s been leading the cover-up for over 50 years.

    So much for being inconceivable. ;-)

  117. avatar
    Majority Will July 27, 2012 at 7:49 pm #

    donna:
    Majority Will: Unless you were one ambitious and resourceful fetus.

    lol obama, the poster fetus for the personhood amendment

    who knew?

    And the Labor Party.

  118. avatar
    Ernst Stavro Blofeld July 27, 2012 at 8:44 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I see your point. Particularly in reverse, I can see the “4″.

    Wow…that is a 4.

  119. avatar
    JPotter July 27, 2012 at 9:14 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    OK. See end of article.

    Oh dear. Just look at those letterforms. Irey will be all over this LOL!

    Nice to have another confimation that curved surfaces do indeed create perceived distortions. The world is still three-dimensional. Whew.

  120. avatar
    Keith July 27, 2012 at 9:18 pm #

    Potter, J.:

    Dr. Conspiracy: Keith

    Ahhh… yes I see. Now that you have imaged the whole thing, I see it was printed in 1980. My Michigan BC from the same time frame (1982 I think) is the same. I sorta forgot about that.

    Hi-tech back in the day, I guess.

  121. avatar
    Orly Taitz July 28, 2012 at 6:08 pm #

    I normally do not post on obot cites, but this issue is important. I know this woman, I met her. I will not post her last name in order not to identify her, but I will post only her first name, which is common and in order for the author of this article to be sure that I know who she is. Her name is [redacted], she and her niece or maybe it was her grand-niece met me when I came to HI. I am extremely suspicious of this woman and her certificate. I believe her certificate was a dry run by the forger to see if “his work of art” will fly. Either this woman is complicit or was manipulated and used as a tool. She was supposed to go with me to the Health department, but changed her mind the last moment. It was suspicious that she got a long form copy, when it was denied to others. Also, I might disagree with Jerome Corsi on other issues, but it is not true that he has the only copy of her birth certificate. [redacted] sent a copy to me as well.
    With or without her birth certificate and numbering there is sufficient evidence for criminal prosecution of Obama and his accomplices for use of a forged birth certificate, forged selective service certificate and a stolen Social Security number. The man belongs in prison for the rest of his life. The same goes for his accomplices who were complicit in treason in aiding and abetting a foreign national with all forged IDs to usurp the US presidency .

  122. avatar
    nbc July 28, 2012 at 6:20 pm #

    nbc: There is no evidence to support you follies my dear Orly.

    Happy sailing on your quixotic quest. Have you apologized to the Appeal’s Court in DC for accusing them of nefarious activities yet. How embarrassing, confusing Taitz v Ruemmler and Taitz v Astrue
    Such sloppiness, something we have come to expect from you.

    Give us your best evidence and I will explain to you why it fails.

    Care to try or do you not believe in your own evidence?

    Ball is in your court my friend

  123. avatar
    John Woodman July 28, 2012 at 6:49 pm #

    Orly,

    I have only ever publicly referred to the person you mention as the “New Girl,” a nickname I gave her back in September when her birth certificate (at the time new to the issue) was posted by Corsi in his article at WorldNetDaily.

    Having talked to her on the phone, I can tell you that this lady does not wish to be a part of the politicized birther follies, and does not wish to be hassled or have this become an issue in her personal life.

    Therefore I would like to suggest that you refrain from mentioning even her first name in public, and refer to her as “the new girl” or some other nickname we agree upon, and maybe Dr. C can edit your post to remove her first name.

    I was already aware that you had some personal acquaintance with her, but thanks for mentioning that you had met her.

    I am extremely suspicious of this woman and her certificate.

    Having talked personally to this person, I must say that she is one of the people in this whole issue of whom I am not suspicious at all. She shows every sign of being a decent, honorable human being, unlike some others I have dealt with at various points, whom I will pass on naming at the moment.

    I believe her certificate was a dry run by the forger to see if “his work of art” will fly. Either this woman is complicit or was manipulated and used as a tool. She was supposed to go with me to the Health department, but changed her mind the last moment. It was suspicious that she got a long form copy, when it was denied to others.

    She received her long form birth certificate in 1995 — which is clearly stamped on the back, by the way — when such certificates were readily available. Jerome Corsi posted her certificate on the web, describing it in the headline of his article as a “genuine BC.”

    Also, I might disagree with Jerome Corsi on other issues, but it is not true that he has the only copy of her birth certificate. [New Girl] sent a copy to me as well.

    She stated to me that that was her only copy. Perhaps she had considered the one to you to have been given to you, and the one to Corsi to be on loan. I do not know. I do know that she considered the one to Corsi to be on loan to him.

    If you have an authentic copy of her long form birth certificate, I would suggest that you might consider returning it to her. I am sure she would appreciate it.

    With or without her birth certificate and numbering there is sufficient evidence for criminal prosecution of Obama and his accomplices for use of a forged birth certificate, forged selective service certificate and a stolen Social Security number. The man belongs in prison for the rest of his life. The same goes for his accomplices who were complicit in treason in aiding and abetting a foreign national with all forged IDs to usurp the US presidency .

    Orly, I know you are a conspiracy theorist. I know you want to believe that Obama’s birth certificate is forged. I have no doubt you have never read the book I wrote on the subject. To tell the truth, I am not sure whether you would be able to fully understand or embrace the points made in it. I wish that you would read it, and I wish that you would acquaint yourself with the facts instead of only the pseudo-facts as publicized by Corsi and others.

    I phoned and spoke to you briefly once; perhaps you will remember. I believe it was March. I mentioned to you at that time that every single birther argument had factually failed.

    What I said then — though I doubt you will be able to receive it — was true. I have personally investigated every single significant allegation of “proof” or “evidence” of “forgery” ever made. I spent 3 months, as a second full-time job, checking out the forgery claims — and the birth certificate itself. One night I even thought I might actually have found some genuine proof of forgery, and was frankly — to describe my state of mind at the time — excited at what I thought I had found. I had the press conference mentally half planned before I returned to my analysis and discovered that it was nothing.

    There is no “proof of forgery.” There is not one single allegation, out of many dozens, that can stand up to actual, competent analysis. There is only allegation after allegation, based on “evidence” that does not stand up to competent scrutiny.

    And I’ll tell you something else: There’s no good evidence that the Founding Fathers intended that it take citizen parents to be a natural born citizen or eligible for the Presidency, either. I ended up doing so much research on that claim from the legal, Constitutional and historical point of view that by the time I was done I had written an estimated 300 pages just on that issue alone. If I were to put it into a book, it would be bigger than the 221-page book I wrote on the birth certificate.

    And so I called you back in March (I believe it was), to let you know that from a factual point of view, you are on an utterly hopeless quest. I was going to try and give you some more evidence, but I entertained no doubt that doing so would be an absolutely futile gesture on my part. You see, I understand that in your mind, I am an “Obot” — never mind that every single vote I have ever cast has been for a Republican and I have never politically supported Mr. Obama — and nothing that I ever had to say, no matter how true, could ever shake your belief in the righteousness of your own futile crusade.

    Not all birthers are so impervious to the evidence. It appears Dean Haskins, being a fairly honest individual, has closed up shop. “Squeeky Fromm,” of course, who started out as a birther, ended up laughing at birthers.

    There has indeed been a fraud, Orly. A very large fraud that has been perpetrated on the American public. The extent of that fraud can be seen if you read and understand my book — understanding that it was an honest and in-depth analysis by someone who was all too prepared to find Mr. Obama ineligible; digest every word of my web site (and this one as well), and read all of the most recent articles here and at my site regarding Sheriff Arpaio’s recent press conference.

  124. avatar
    Rickey July 28, 2012 at 7:22 pm #

    Orly Taitz:

    With or without her birth certificate and numbering there is sufficient evidence for criminal prosecution of Obama and his accomplices for use of a forged birth certificate, forged selective service certificate and a stolen Social Security number.

    I would post this on your website, except that I know it would never get past your moderation.

    I am a real private investigator, with 38 years of experience. If Obama is using a stolen Social Security Number, why is it that your investigators – Sankey, Daniels, Sampson, or anyone else you may have consulted with – have been unable to identify by name the person to whom the SSN was actually issued?

    The fact of the matter is that there is no record of anyone other than Obama having used the SSN which you have plastered all over the Internet. The IRS compares Social Security Numbers on tax returns with the Social Security Administration’s records. If there is a mismatch, the tax return is rejected. Why haven’t Obama’s tax returns been rejected?

    Finally, the so-called “experts” who have deemed Obama’s birth certificate to be a forgery aren’t qualified to pass judgment on the authenticity of a grocery store coupon.

  125. avatar
    CatMe July 28, 2012 at 7:22 pm #

    Orly, your delusions are unhealthy and you should get some professional help. Your evidence is garbage and your experts are far from what any court would recognize as an expert. To find your nutty theories plausible, one must draw a lot of meandering lines connecting dots that are in no way related. Don’t you ever wonder why no court agrees with you? The fact that you seriously think every judge who rules against you is corrupt but would hold up the one judge who ruled in your favor (though no such judge exists) says all anyone needs to know about your mental state. You are also mean and vindictive and encourage harassment of innocent people on a routine basis. You are the one who will wind up in a locked room, not the president.

  126. avatar
    Scientist July 28, 2012 at 7:50 pm #

    Regarding Orly’s post, I won’t bother disputing the countless lies. I will note that the post contains only one spelling error (obot cites instead of obot sites) that I can find and is written in reasonably grammatical English. This is in contrast to Ms Taitz’s legal filings, which are, without exception, written as though translated from a foreign language by some very poor software.

    I am perplexed as to how a supposed attorney can write better in a post on a blog than she does in official court filings. This is really quite shameful behavior and shows great contempt for the many courts which Ms Taitz has abused with her inane and incomprehensible filings.

  127. avatar
    kimba July 28, 2012 at 8:16 pm #

    “I can tell you that this lady does not wish to be a part of the politicized birther follies”

    Come on, John. She met with Orly. Give me a break she doesn’t want to be part of the follies.

  128. avatar
    John Woodman July 28, 2012 at 8:31 pm #

    That’s what she said to me, and I believe her.

    Apparently she was a prior friend with someone who is very active in the birther movement. I don’t know the entire story by any means, but I know this friend served as a point of connection to Corsi, and assume that the friend also served as a point of connection to several others. Orly was one.

    I also think “New Girl” was willing to be helpful to her friend, and I surmise that probably one thing led to another.

    So, I will admit I wasn’t there, and can only speak on the basis of my one conversation with her. But those are my impressions. I’ve stated elsewhere that I think “New Girl” made some good-faith attempts to be helpful to a friend, and to others that she really had no reason not to help. From that point of view, I find such efforts decent and commendable.

  129. avatar
    JPotter July 28, 2012 at 8:41 pm #

    Orly Taitz: cites

    Hey, that’s fair, as birther never posts cites at all! Heh.

    Hey, Orly, how’s it going?

  130. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG July 28, 2012 at 8:44 pm #

    Jpotter,
    How much you wanna bet the typo joke is going to fly way over her head too? Then again, base toilet humor is probably a bit out of her grasp.

  131. avatar
    kimba July 28, 2012 at 8:48 pm #

    “I’ve stated elsewhere that I think “New Girl” made some good-faith attempts to be helpful to a friend, and to others that she really had no reason not to help.”
    I think you have on rose-colored glasses. New Girl had her 50th birthday in August 2011, same as Pres. Obama. News of the President’s 50 th birthday was everywhere, especially Hawaii. Even if New Girl is totally out of the news loop, someone in her family, circle of friends must have noticed and pointed out to her that she and President Obama share a birthplace, a birth month and a birth year. I think it’s almost a certainty. Corsi published his article about New Girl’s BC on Sep 11, 2011. He must have gotten it at least a couple of weeks before. So that means New Girl gave her friend her BC to give to Corsi in the same month as her and the President’s 50th birthday. I don’t know how you could think she made absolutely no connection between the interest in her birth certificate and the President. I think the probability of that is low to none.

  132. avatar
    justlw July 28, 2012 at 9:22 pm #

    kimba: I don’t know how you could think she made absolutely no connection between the interest in her birth certificate and the President.

    When did John Woodman say she “made absolutely no connection”? I must have missed that.

  133. avatar
    kimba July 28, 2012 at 9:51 pm #

    justlw: When did John Woodman say she “made absolutely no connection”? I must have missed that.

    John keeps saying how “innocent” she is and she was “just helping a friend”, strongly implying she told him she didn’t know what it was all about at the time. I say John is being very naive at best.

  134. avatar
    John Woodman July 28, 2012 at 10:06 pm #

    You could be correct. I tend to try and assume the best of people.

    I would rather do that than assume right off the bat that everybody is a liar.

  135. avatar
    gorefan July 28, 2012 at 10:27 pm #

    Orly Taitz: It was suspicious that she got a long form copy, when it was denied to others.

    Isn’t her BC from the 1990′s?

    So what is the cert #?

  136. avatar
    Rickey July 28, 2012 at 10:51 pm #

    kimba:
    “I can tell you that this lady does not wish to be a part of the politicized birther follies”

    Come on, John.She met with Orly.Give me a break she doesn’t want to be part of the follies.

    It’s possible that she now regrets that she got involved in the first place.

  137. avatar
    John Woodman July 28, 2012 at 11:05 pm #

    All I can tell you is this.

    According to our conversation, “New Girl” has a personal friend who is a big birther. She told me that she loaned her birth certificate to Corsi at the request of this friend.

    Apparently she also volunteered to help certain other of the birthers (including Orly, and I am guessing also with encouragement of this birther friend) when they came to visit the island. Personally, I think she was just being hospitable and trying to help a friend.

    If anyone — having not spent the time talking to her that I did — has a different opinion, well, you’re certainly entitled to your opinion.

    I have already seen how vicious people can be in this issue toward innocent parties that they know nothing about. Usually, it’s the birthers being vicious. Actually, I find it notable that already we have Orly Taitz on here publicly questioning the character of someone who actually offered to help her when she was in Hawaii. I hope that those who are not birthers can be better behaved than I have seen birthers be.

  138. avatar
    John Woodman July 28, 2012 at 11:09 pm #

    And the certificate number is 61-09945.

    Or, I’d say there’s a small possibility it might be 61-08945. But I don’t think so.

    The birth date is August 23, 1961, at Kapiolani. The combination of birth date and certificate number blows Jerome Corsi’s “certificate number is proof of fraud” claim out of the water.

    That claim itself was already based on a blatantly false claim made by Corsi that Charles Bennett’s 1955 article told us exactly what order, and when, they stamped the birth certificates in.

  139. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 28, 2012 at 11:19 pm #

    You’re certainly welcome to comment any time you wish, and I appreciate the useful information you provided in your comment below.

    Since you mention the name, it is clear that we’re talking about the same person and the same certificate Dr. Corsi published in WND last September..

    The certificate Corsi published was issued in 1995, which is 5 years before the department went paperless and changed its policy about issuing the long form. So there’s nothing odd about her having the old form.

    As for certificates, social-security numbers and selective service registration, we will just have to disagree about the validity of those claims of fraud.

    Orly Taitz: I normally do not post on obot cites, but this issue is important. I know this woman, I met her. I will not post her last name in order not to identify her, but I will post only her first name, which is common and in order for the author of this article to be sure that I know who she is. Her name is [redacted name matches name Woodman called], she and her niece or maybe it was her grand-niece met me when I came to HI. I am extremely suspicious of this woman and her certificate. I believe her certificate was a dry run by the forger to see if “his work of art” will fly. Either this woman is complicit or was manipulated and used as a tool. She was supposed to go with me to the Health department, but changed her mind the last moment. It was suspicious that she got a long form copy, when it was denied to others. Also, I might disagree with Jerome Corsi on other issues, but it is not true that he has the only copy of her birth certificate. [redacted] sent a copy to me as well.
    With or without her birth certificate and numbering there is sufficient evidence for criminal prosecution of Obama and his accomplices for use of a forged birth certificate, forged selective service certificate and a stolen Social Security number. The man belongs in prison for the rest of his life. The same goes for his accomplices who were complicit in treason in aiding and abetting a foreign national with all forged IDs to usurp the US presidency

  140. avatar
    foreigner July 29, 2012 at 1:37 am #

    John Woodman wrote:
    > One night I even thought I might actually have found some genuine proof of forgery,
    > and was frankly — to describe my state of mind at the time — excited at what
    > I thought I had found. I had the press conference mentally half planned before
    > I returned to my analysis and discovered that it was nothing.

    what was it ? (can it happen again …)

  141. avatar
    John Woodman July 29, 2012 at 1:55 am #

    No. I wrote about it in the book.

  142. avatar
    foreigner July 29, 2012 at 2:06 am #

    there were 9948 Hawaiian 1961 birth certificates assigned to Jan-July.
    If this was the first one numbered for August, then they must have had
    at least 3 for <August that came in later and got a higher number.
    Are these those that subsequently die in the same year/month ?
    I remember, there was a case with one Baby that had died and got a strangely
    high number.

    John Woodman: And the certificate number is 61-09945. Or, I’d say there’s a small possibility it might be 61-08945. But I don’t think so. The birth date is August 23, 1961, at Kapiolani. The combination of birth date and certificate number blows Jerome Corsi’s “certificate number is proof of fraud” claim out of the water.That claim itself was already based on a blatantly false claim made by Corsi that Charles Bennett’s 1955 article told us exactly what order, and when, they stamped the birth certificates in.

  143. avatar
    Orly Taitz July 29, 2012 at 2:09 am #

    I remember that [redacted] got her alleged BC in April, shortly before Obama released his alleged BC.
    I do not remember Mr. Woodman, but I got thousands of calls from many people

    [For historical clarification: the certificate that Orly Taitz mentions here is not the 1961 certificate for the person mentioned, but rather the certificate of her child. In 2013, Orly Taitz published an unredacted copy of the person's 1961 certificate issued in 1995, and an inadequately redacted copy of the Child's 1995 certificate issued in 2011. Doc]

  144. avatar
    foreigner July 29, 2012 at 2:14 am #

    John Woodman: No. I wrote about it in the book.

    OK, I found it with keyword search for “night” in the electronic copy.
    page 182, misalignment in the 2nd line

  145. avatar
    foreigner July 29, 2012 at 2:26 am #

    as for Orly Taitz (and most others in the birther discussion) I wonder how
    someone can stay so firmly on one side of the positions for so long.
    Usually you would expect some people changing position when new
    data comes in or at least develop some doubts. I rarely saw it here.
    “Squeeky Fromm” was mentioned. My polls did show 19:0 strong
    birthers (>90% sure) in a birther forum and 0:33 strong antibirthers
    (<10%) in an antibirther forum, they even complained that there was
    no option for 0%.
    I don't think this is credible. People must have more doubts than they
    admit.

  146. avatar
    bgansel9 July 29, 2012 at 2:31 am #

    Orly Taitz: With or without her birth certificate and numbering there is sufficient evidence for criminal prosecution of Obama and his accomplices for use of a forged birth certificate, forged selective service certificate and a stolen Social Security number. The man belongs in prison for the rest of his life.

    The courts don’t agree with you, and since you’re supposed to be a lawyer, I find it highly disconcerting that you don’t know the definition of “Innocent Until Proven Guilty”. You have to get a conviction before you can be taken seriously when you say such things. So far no court has given you that conviction you seek, so perhaps you should tone down your rhetoric? If not, one day, perhaps, it might be YOU that ends up in jail.

  147. avatar
    Orly Taitz July 29, 2012 at 2:33 am #

    I remember that [redacted]got her alleged BC in April, shortly before Obama released his alleged BC.
    I do not remember Mr. Woodman, but I got thousands of calls from many people.
    [redacted]got in touch with me and Corsi through Miki Booth, who is very prominent in ObamaForgeryGate movement. Miki used to live in HI and could not get her son’s long form BC.
    A person who claims to be an investigator and claims that IRS checks the tax returns for errors is not telling the truth. There are millions of illegals in this country, according to statistics 70% of them have bogus SSNs and many of them pay taxes. Uncle Sam will never reject payment of taxes.
    None of the birther arguments were ever disproven. No judge in the nation, no jury ever saw any original documents and never ruled that the Connecticut SSN used by Obama was legally given to him. No judge ever ruled that the Selective Service certificate with a 2 digit year stamp instead of a 4 digit year stamp is valid. No judge ever ruled that the alleged BC for Obama with Onaka’s smiling face, multiple layers and multple fonts and kerning is anything but a BS, a cheap computer generated forgery.
    In regards to corruption in the judiciary, I did not want to believe that either, I wrote to my Sec of State Bowen originally trying to prove that everything is in order, I originally believed that we have mostly decent judges, that this is not the USSR, I came to the conclusion that the system is indeed as corrupt as USSR or worse. There for 60 years the judges were just puppets. Here, when a legal actions against the regime and predetermined officials are concerned, the judges are nothing but puppets, who are insulting the intelligence of every American. You can see my response to the ruling in the court of Appeals, where the opinion stated that there is no public interest in knowing whether the President is using a stolen Social Security number. How can anyone state that these judges are not manipulated and corrupt? If this is not an insult to intelligence, what is? The forger is laughing at the whole nation, he put a smiling face in Obama’s BC to tell us, all your judges are so on the take, so dirty and corrupt that I can draw a smiley face in the alleged birth certificate for an alleged president and these corrupt judges will accept this too, as it is in their marching orders. Aren’t you people ashamed of yourselves supporting this?

  148. avatar
    bgansel9 July 29, 2012 at 2:40 am #

    Orly Taitz: Aren’t you people ashamed of yourselves supporting this?

    I should ask the same of you. No judge will give you the time of day for your silly witch hunt.

  149. avatar
    justlw July 29, 2012 at 2:49 am #

    Orly Taitz: The forger is laughing at the whole nation, he put a smiling face in Obama’s BC to tell us,

    The only possible way to interpret this, given the affidavits sent to the Arizona Secretary of State and the Mississippi Democratic Party, is that the forger is Alvin Onaka himself.

    Is this what you’re saying?

  150. avatar
    Keith July 29, 2012 at 3:21 am #

    Orly Taitz: A person who claims to be an investigator and claims that IRS checks the tax returns for errors is not telling the truth. There are millions of illegals in this country, according to statistics 70% of them have bogus SSNs and many of them pay taxes. Uncle Sam will never reject payment of taxes.

    A person who claims to be a lawyer should understand the difference between giving an employer a SSN (whether fake or real) and filing a tax return.

    Yes, Orly, the IRS checks every tax return, but only if they receive it.

    People with fake SSNs have them to obtain jobs and reduce their exposure to the INS. Filing a tax return would would attract attention to their illegal status, and eventually draw the attention of the INS. Rather counterproductive, don’t you think.

    Illegal aliens do pay taxes, lots of taxes, income taxes and sales taxes. They get almost zero services for their taxes. They do not file tax returns. It is quite literally free money for Uncle Sam.

  151. avatar
    John Woodman July 29, 2012 at 3:30 am #

    Orly,

    Even if you look at the images posted of her birth certificate on WorldNetDaily, on the back it is clearly stamped “Aug – 8 1995.”

    This, by the way, is in agreement with what she told me over the phone.

    > None of the birther arguments were ever disproven.

    From a factual point of view, not a single one of them holds water. Not one.

    I have investigated every single significant birther argument ever put forth, and a great many that weren’t significant.

    If we were to put the birth certificate on a full and prolonged, month-long trial, with the evidence that we have now — and I have looked at and carefully analyzed every single bit of it — I could personally destroy every single bit of “evidence” you have, every single argument you or any other birther has made, every single “expert” you have.

    Except maybe the Social Security claims, because I do not have access to the information needed.

    But everything else — gone. The forgery claims — gone. Doug Vogt — gone. Mara Zebest — gone. Karl Denninger — gone. Paul Irey — gone. Jerome Corsi — I don’t think Corsi would even show up. Not in a court of law. Mario Apuzzo — he would show up. And he would put up all kinds of invalid arguments, all of which have been shown to be nonsense.

    And I’m sure others could destroy the arguments, as well. Kevin Davidson certainly could. In fact, as I recall, the last time things were actually put to a test in a real court of law, you lost to an empty table.

    But I am simply speaking from the fact that I have taken the time to examine everything, and I know for a fact that you do not have a leg to stand on anywhere.

    Now I can readily believe that you don’t believe that. But it’s true.

    No judge in the nation, no jury ever saw any original documents and never ruled that the Connecticut SSN used by Obama was legally given to him. No judge ever ruled that the Selective Service certificate with a 2 digit year stamp instead of a 4 digit year stamp is valid. No judge ever ruled that the alleged BC for Obama with Onaka’s smiling face, multiple layers and multple fonts and kerning is anything but a BS, a cheap computer generated forgery.

    Maybe not — but the judge in Georgia listened to everything you had to say, and found “the testimony of the witnesses, as well as the exhibits tendered, to be of little, if any, probative value, and thus wholly insufficient to support plaintiffs’ allegations.”

    This was even without somebody rebutting the arguments.

    Orly, if you lost to an empty table — on the merits of the case — how do you ever expect to prevail if you should ever have somebody actually provide evidence against your claims?

    I will also say this in regard to the evidence: It seems clear to me that you’ve never read the other side of the evidence. Now I have no doubt that you are so committed to your position, and have yourself so convinced, that you could probably skim through the counter arguments and glibly dismiss them in your own mind. But I don’t think you’ve ever done even that.

    Aren’t you people ashamed of yourselves supporting this?

    I have examined every single significant piece of “evidence” that has ever been produced. It is all nonsense — every single bit of it.

    And some of it, such as Jerome Corsi’s recent claim that he had the 1961 Vital Statistics Instruction Manual, and that that document said “not reported” or “not stated” for “9″, which was the entire basis for his most recent claim of “proof of forgery” — is outright, meticulously PROVEN lies and fraud on the part of people such as Corsi who have a vested interest in the outcome.

    I’m not sure whether you’ve kept up or not, but yesterday a birther produced the actual manual Corsi claimed to have. It flatly and directly contradicts his claim. This is after Corsi claimed to have that exact manual, claimed to have spent “months” looking for it and “finally found it.”

    So Corsi’s claim is utterly false, and there seems to be no way on earth he could not have known it was utterly false.

    Corsi actually had all of the evidence that the forgery theories were complete BS last August — or at least his boss Joseph Farah did, and I presume Corsi did as well. I know, because I personally sent that evidence to him. First in electronic copy, and then in hard copy.

    Neither Farah nor Corsi ever published one single word of counter-opinion or evidence. All they ever published was the claims of “experts” who would support the forgery theories on the basis of which they were pushing books and other merchandise to the public, and asking for donations of up to $5,000 a pop.

    And it’s not because they didn’t have any counter-evidence.

    At the time my book was published last August, I had documented 23 different claims of “evidence of forgery” that had been personally and publicly backed by Jerome Corsi. I also documented exactly why each and every one of these claims failed when subjected to honest scrutiny.

    I documented that Corsi had based one of his most major “proofs of forgery” on a completely false claim made by him, that Charles Bennett in his 1955 article told us in exactly what order the birth certificates were stamped.

    I called him on it publicly, in a debate in January of this year. In that debate, Corsi promised to provide proof of his claim. Did he ever? Of course not. He can’t, because it’s completely false.

    In September of last year, Corsi published some images of the birth certificate we’ve been talking about. A reader to my blog alerted me that the images had been switched for new ones. Curious, I fished the original images out of google’s cache, where they were still present. Noticing some faint bleed-through on the image of the back of the certificate, I enhanced and mirror-imaged it and was able to read the certificate number and enough information to eventually identify exactly whose birth certificate it was, the names on it, and virtually every bit of information. This week I cracked the last important bit, which was the race entries for the parents.

    The most important thing was the certificate number, which showed that Corsi’s claim that Obama’s certificate number was “proof of forgery” was absolutely false.

    Corsi possessed this information which showed his major theory was false. Did he ever publish that? No, in fact WorldNetDaily specifically hid the certificate number by copying a different section of the back of the document over the area in which the bleed-through of the certificate number appeared. Apparently, they were worried about revealing the certificate number — which has no personally identifying information at all — and not so worried about “New Girl’s personal specifics leaking out, as they didn’t cover those bits.

    Has Corsi ever retracted his known FALSE claim about Bennett? No.

    So we have proven lies, on top of literal cover-up, on top of known falsehood, on top of invalid claim after invalid claim after invalid claim.

    Heck, I haven’t even mentioned Corsi’s article which was plagiarized from the London Evening Standard, which Atlanta lawyer Loren Collins caught. I haven’t even mentioned the unethical way in which WorldNetDaily has been giving Joe Arpaio national press and Joe Arpaio has given Corsi’s claims a national platform. I haven’t even mentioned the Corsi/ Zullo ebook which went on sale — with profits to be split between Corsi and Zullo — the day before the Arpaio Posse’s first press conference in which they said there was “probably cause” that Obama’s birth certificate was a “forgery.”

    That’s what you’re supporting, Orly. Believe me, I’ve been through everything with a total fine-toothed comb. When you understand all of the ins and outs of the evidence, there is not one single speck of CREDIBLE evidence that Obama’s birth certificate is a fake, or that Obama is Constitutionally ineligible. On the other hand, there’s a TON of evidence of actual wrongdoing, and of people benefiting in various ways, including monetarily, from false and invalid and bogus claims.

    Aren’t you ashamed of supporting that?

  152. avatar
    aarrgghh July 29, 2012 at 3:58 am #

    Orly Taitz: I originally believed that we have mostly decent judges, that this is not the USSR, I came to the conclusion that the system is indeed as corrupt as USSR or worse. … The forger is laughing at the whole nation, he put a smiling face in Obama’s BC …

    no, this isn’t the ussr, but i suspect that’s exactly why you’re so disillusioned. where else is a hack lawyer guaranteed to win a bogus case, as long as they’re working for the party?

    blaming the unbroken losses of a part-time amateur lawyer with an online degree on everyone but yourself just makes obvious your utter lack of appreciation and respect for the dedicated years of study and the actual hard work required to competently understand and practice law in a country that reveres the rule of law. it takes a lot of narcissistic gall to presume that a couple of all-nighters on google would allow you to bulldoze your way past judges and counsellors who’ve earned their positions from real institutions and who’ve become experts in their disciplines through years of practice on their feet debating real issues.

    i know this will fall on deaf ears but … just forget your crackhead fantasies of being the savior of birfistan. just go home. it’s bad enough that you’re not willing to take the legal profession seriously enough to learn how to practice it well. because even if you spent the next ten years studying at harvard law, you’d still lose every single case … because the cases you pursue are frivolous, petty, vindictive, delusional and 100% wrong.

  153. avatar
    foreigner July 29, 2012 at 4:08 am #

    Orly Taitz wrote:

    > None of the birther arguments were ever disproven.

    increadable how someone can write this. None out of dozends, hundreds
    of arguments disproven on this blog alone ?
    How many of the debunking arguments on this blog were disproven ?
    Is there a book or a list of examples ?

    Most the “None” statements are usually exaggerated and logically wrong,
    just one counterexample is enough. Those people usually didn’t
    really mean “none”, but rather “few”.
    But with “birther arguments” even “few” is so blatently wrong that
    you have to wonder, what the motivation is for such a statement.
    Does Orly Tattz really believe what she writes ?

  154. avatar
    Obsolete July 29, 2012 at 4:27 am #

    Orly Taitz: None of the birther arguments were ever disproven.

    So Obama’s “real” father was both Malcolm X and Frank Marshall Davis?

  155. avatar
    foreigner July 29, 2012 at 5:07 am #

    looking for the Dr.C – debunking blog/forum …. where is it ?
    ————————–
    Obsolete, these are no birther arguments but rather anti-birther-arguments
    (pro-eligibility)

  156. avatar
    CatMe July 29, 2012 at 5:24 am #

    Orly,

    If this were the old USSR , you would be in jail or simply disappeared. The fact that you get to file your frivolous cases, post on your crappy little Website, and lose two elections for public office demonstrates that this is NOT the USSR and President Obama is not Stalin. You do not lose your cases because the judiciary is corrupt. You do not even lose your cases because of what a terrible lawyer you are. You lose your cases because you are irrational, illogical, and wrong and because what you call evidence most people can readily see is nothing more than wild speculation. You are supposed to present the proof, but you haven’t because you don’t have any. Most of your evidence has already been debunked, but you just stick your fingers in your ears and say, “lalalalala, I’m not listening!”

    You simply take information that you do not understand and put one and three together and call it five. If you ever actually looked and thought about the evidence you file, you might actually recognize that it does not actually show what you claim it shows.

    But this has been a nice moneymaker for you, as you beg for money and attention from people who have far less money than you do and are not very bright. Notice that the smart people think you are a joke.

    You will never win, no matter how many cases you file. And the only people you “convince” are people who would not vote for the president anyway and love to hate him more than they like/reality.

    I am sorry to tell you this, but you are not well.

  157. avatar
    Judge Mental July 29, 2012 at 6:21 am #

    Let’s deal with something specific, which ought to be simple.

    Orly implied upthread that the copy of this lady’s long form which was given to her was obtained by the lady from Hawaii DOH in April 2011 not 1995.

    Doc said that the long form he is dealing with was issued by Hawaii DOH in 1995.

    I see a number of possibilities, including….

    1. Orly is mistaken/lying.

    2. Doc is mistaken/lying.

    3. Neither Doc/Orly are mistaken/lying and there are two different copies of the same long form involved, Doc dealing with a copy obtained by the lady in 1995 and Orly dealing with an uncertified copy obtained by the lady in 2011 (given that we have previously been led to believe uncertified long form copies might have occasionally been obtainable after 2000 if the applicant had a good enough reason).

    4. Orly/Doc are not talking about the same lady.

    Which is it (or is it another entirely different reason) and why? I know what my first choice guess would be, but I could be wrong.

  158. avatar
    Scientist July 29, 2012 at 6:32 am #

    Orly Taitz: A person who claims to be an investigator and claims that IRS checks the tax returns for errors is not telling the truth.

    I know from my own personal experience that the IRS matches names and SSNs, because I once, by mistake, transposed 2 digits of my daughter’s SSN when claiming a dependent exemption. About 2 months later I got a letter denying the exemption and demanding payment of the additional taxes that would have been owed without the exemption. I has to provide them the corrected SSN.

    I wonder if Orly files taxes.

    Orly Taitz: No judge in the nation, no jury ever saw any original documents and never ruled that the Connecticut SSN used by Obama was legally given to him

    Has any judge ever ruled that Orly’s SSN was legally given to her? No.

  159. avatar
    Lupin July 29, 2012 at 6:52 am #

    Orly:

    I think you should be disbarred. You are obviously incompetent and are constantly abusing the legal process and the courts’ time.

    Your delusional, even lunatic, witch hunt is only amusing on the internet. It has no place cluttering the real world.

  160. avatar
    realist July 29, 2012 at 7:32 am #

    John Woodman:
    All I can tell you is this.

    According to our conversation, “New Girl” has a personal friend who is a big birther. She told me that she loaned her birth certificate to Corsi at the request of this friend.

    Apparently she also volunteered to help certain other of the birthers (including Orly, and I am guessing also with encouragement of this birther friend) when they came to visit the island. Personally, I think she was just being hospitable and trying to help a friend.

    And that friend who is a “big birther” would most likely be Miki Booth and “probably” along with Dean Haskins.

  161. avatar
    Thrifty July 29, 2012 at 7:58 am #

    Scientist: I am perplexed as to how a supposed attorney can write better in a post on a blog than she does in official court filings. This is really quite shameful behavior and shows great contempt for the many courts which Ms Taitz has abused with her inane and incomprehensible filings.

    It could be a different person. All you have to do to authenticate on this site is punch in a name in and E-Mail address. I could put “Barack Obama” in the name field, and some random bogus E-Mail (maybe something like barack.obama@whitehouse.gov), then post a paragraph saying something like “I admit that I was born in Kenya and had a birth certificate forged by a man named Thomas Fortrell so that I could pass as a natural born citizen. I have not had the courage to state this to the press, but I felt the need to get it off my chest to somebody, and the people of this blog seem sympathetic.”

    I’d like to say that Birthers wouldn’t fall for it, that they can’t possibly be that gullible, but I’m not so sure of that. We did have that one guy post about the joke clip from Obamacuts.

  162. avatar
    Reality Check July 29, 2012 at 8:01 am #

    When do you have time to run a dental practice and be with your family? Never mind, I think I know the answer.

    Orly Taitz: I do not remember Mr. Woodman, but I got thousands of calls from many people.

  163. avatar
    Thrifty July 29, 2012 at 8:04 am #

    Corsi must be a fan of the Olympics.

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld:
    I was just told Jerome Corsi is in Great Britain and wont be back until August 1st reporting his findings to Sheriff Arpaio.

  164. avatar
    Judge Mental July 29, 2012 at 8:26 am #

    If the bloated poison dwarf liar is in Uk for the Olympics I think we can safely assume that it isn’t to take part in the heats of the 100 metres.

  165. avatar
    misha July 29, 2012 at 8:29 am #

    nbc: Have they no self respect? No honor or morals?

    “Senator, may we not drop this? We know he belonged to the Lawyers Guild. Let us not assassinate this lad further, Senator. You’ve done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_N._Welch

  166. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 29, 2012 at 8:53 am #

    From time to time people use this site’s contact form (thinking the site belongs to Dr. Taitz) to ask if she will speak at some event. I give them the number.

    Orly Taitz: I do not remember Mr. Woodman, but I got thousands of calls from many people.

  167. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 29, 2012 at 9:01 am #

    I beg to differ. I filed taxes for my father and they rejected the income tax form I submitted. When I unraveled the problem, SSA told me that they had my father’s date of birth was wrong in their system, and that’s why the IRS rejected the form. Name, number and date of birth have to match. This was an eFile, but it’s reasonable that they would check them all.

    The essential flaw in your whole stolen social-security number theory is that you cannot come up with anyone else that number was issued to. You found the “1890″ birth date in some database, but the NAME on that record was Barack Obama, not some hypothetical person born in 1890. If the “1890″ date were legitimate, it would be associated with a person born then, and not Obama — but it isn’t.

    An illegal immigrant may operate on a cash basis and file no taxes or they use the social-security of someone else — but when they use some else’s number, they use their name too.

    Orly Taitz: A person who claims to be an investigator and claims that IRS checks the tax returns for errors is not telling the truth. There are millions of illegals in this country, according to statistics 70% of them have bogus SSNs and many of them pay taxes. Uncle Sam will never reject payment of taxes.

  168. avatar
    misha July 29, 2012 at 9:10 am #

    Orly Taitz: I normally do not post on obot cites, but this issue is important.

    Normally I do not reply to shondes and momsers, but in your case I’ll make an exception.

    You and your ilk have given us a black eye. Don’t bother calling me a self-hating Jew. The real self-hating Jews belong to Jews For Jesus, who are nothing more than latter day concentration camp capos – and you and your crowd overlook them.

    We have a culture of persecution:
    http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2009/04/culture-of-persecution.html

    You and your ilk spend their day licking your wounds, instead of looking to the future.

    We have a president with an Arabic first and middle name. Axelrod and Emmanuel are his two closest advisers.

    This election is about the 1st Amendment, reproductive freedom, science, healthcare and Supreme Court appointments – and those affect me immediately. Believing this does not make me less of a Zionist – I am a labor Zionist, not a religious Zionist. I am completely secular, and have been most of my life.

    Obama was legitimately elected, and will be re-elected. Intrade has Obama at 57%; Romney at 40%.

    Deal with it. And get a life.

    Here’s your BFF Romney in Israel:
    http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2012/07/romney-lands-in-israel.html

  169. avatar
    misha July 29, 2012 at 9:17 am #

    Orly Taitz: I know this woman, I met her…I will post only her first name, which is common

    Rumor has it that your actual first name is Svetlana. Care to comment?

    Misha Marinsky
    Philadelphia

  170. avatar
    misha July 29, 2012 at 9:23 am #

    bgansel9: I find it highly disconcerting that you don’t know the definition of “Innocent Until Proven Guilty”.

    Settlers, birthers and evangelicals believe ‘guilty until proven innocent.’

  171. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 29, 2012 at 9:25 am #

    If anyone is lying about the form it is Jerome Corsi, since it is his image from September of 2011 (published on WND) where I get my information. It is definitely the same subject certificate because of corroborating details.

    Most likely Dr. Taitz doesn’t have a certified copy of the certificate, but a photocopy of the front of the certificate which doesn’t have the date it was issued. Corsi showed the back where the date stamp is. If Dr. Taitz does have a certified copy, then she need only look at the back to determine when it was issued.

    [Historical note: The confusion here is that there are two certificates, the certificate of the mother born in 1961, and of her child born in 1995. The Mother's certificate was printed in 1995 and the child's certificate was printed in 2011. Dr. Taitz does indeed have an image of the back of the mother's certificate which she published in 2013. Doc.]

    The narrative itself, that X was intending to go to the Health Department, presumably to get a long form, substantiates the conclusion that she didn’t have a form issued recently.

    Judge Mental: I see a number of possibilities, including….

    1. Orly is mistaken/lying.

    2. Doc is mistaken/lying.

    3. Neither Doc/Orly are mistaken/lying and there are two different copies of the same long form involved, Doc dealing with a copy obtained by the lady in 1995 and Orly dealing with an uncertified copy obtained by the lady in 2011 (given that we have previously been led to believe uncertified long form copies might have occasionally been obtainable after 2000 if the applicant had a good enough reason).

    4. Orly/Doc are not talking about the same lady.

  172. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG July 29, 2012 at 10:06 am #

    Orly Taitz:
    *More Long winded moon bat speak*

    I’m also in the “When are you getting disbarred for promoting dissidence?” camp.
    People like you are dangerous, because despite you obvious mental dysfunction, you’re charismatic enough to have followers who are dumb enough to fund your antics. These people strike me as the sort who would turn to violence at the snap of a twig, and half the time you are screaming at them to make demands they are not entitled to make, of people who are just doing their jobs. I’m wondering when you or one of them will cross the line and someone ends up hurt or worse as a result.

  173. avatar
    JPotter July 29, 2012 at 10:10 am #

    Orly Taitz: A person who claims to be an investigator and claims that IRS checks the tax returns for errors is not telling the truth.

    Ridiculous! I have had 3 returns bounced by the IRS, two of which were in my favor! My experience indicates that the IRS not only checks returns, but will also reject overpayments. If they determine they owe you, they just send the money, they don’t ask if you agree first.

  174. avatar
    Majority Will July 29, 2012 at 10:10 am #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: I’m also in the “When are you getting disbarred for promoting dissidence?” camp.
    People like you are dangerous, because despite you obvious mental dysfunction, you’re charismatic enough to have followers who are dumb enough to fund your antics. These people strike me as the sort who would turn to violence at the snap of a twig, and half the time you are screaming at them to make demands they are not entitled to make, of people who are just doing their jobs. I’m wondering when you or one of them will cross the line and someone ends up hurt or worse as a result.

    And if she is ever indicted, letting her represent herself would be just.

  175. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG July 29, 2012 at 10:14 am #

    I for one would love to see her twist in the wind like that.

  176. avatar
    JPotter July 29, 2012 at 10:20 am #

    Orly Taitz: I remember that [redacted] got her alleged BC in April, shortly before Obama released his alleged BC.

    Spreading your smears to private citizens?

    Pretty sick, chubs.

  177. avatar
    Entrepreneur July 29, 2012 at 10:21 am #

    Following up in what others have said, a small business owner I know just told me that the IRS contacted him recently to tell him that one of his employees is using a fake Social Security Number.

    Orly Taitz:

    A person who claims to be an investigator and claims that IRS checks the tax returns for errors is not telling the truth. There are millions of illegals in this country, according to statistics 70% of them have bogus SSNs and many of them pay taxes. Uncle Sam will never reject payment of taxes.

  178. avatar
    John Woodman July 29, 2012 at 10:39 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: If anyone is lying about the form it is Jerome Corsi, since it is his image from September of 2011 (published on WND) where I get my information. It is definitely the same subject certificate because of corroborating details.

    Yes, I will confirm that Orly is speaking of the same person.

  179. avatar
    Michael Heuss July 29, 2012 at 11:14 am #

    Just to pile on to what others have said already – as a business owner, I’ve been contacted by the IRS regarding an employees incorrect SSN. As a tax payer, I’ve had to correct a typo on a SSN.

    The IRS doesn’t just accept payments without regards to the numbers validity. That just isn’t true.

  180. avatar
    Steven Feinstein July 29, 2012 at 11:25 am #

    None of my posts on Orly’s site get past moderation and I am banned from her page. The bottom line on Orly is that even if she is right, she is wrong. For example, the Constitution requires three things for eligibility–being at least 35 years of age, 14 years a resident, and being a nbc. As one can easily see, there is no mention of birth certificates or social security numbers. Of course, there were no such things as birth certificates when the Constitution was ratified. As such, from a constitutional perspective, a person needs neither a bc nor a social security number in order to be eligible to be President. This was the precise point that the gentleman in Indiana was trying to tell Orly during the hearing. It is a simple point that Orly cannot grasp. Therefore, even if the bc were forged, or the the SS# false, that would have nothing to with whether Mr. Obama were eligible to be president. If Orly could prove crimes then there could be impeachable offenses, but again, nothing to do with eligibility.

    Of course, no proclamation concerning a pdf is relevant to any discussion of the validity of the original document anyway, another simple point that seems to escape Orly. So no matter what is said by any birther concerning the pdf version of thelfbc, the fact that Hawaii has confirmed, verified and certified the lfbc and its contents, there is nothing to discuss let alone debate or litigate.

    I can also attest to the fact that just this year a tax return I filed electronically was rejected by the IRS because of a problem with a social security number.

    On a personal note, some of you know who I am and my connection to Orly’s World, a fb page dedicated to mocking birthers and Orly’s antics. Because my last name is the same as a certain senator from California, Orly got in her head that the senator was a relative of mine. She actually contacted me and “demanded” that I tell her what my relationship with Dianne was. Eventually, that lead to her posting information about me on blog and seeking additional information from her flying monkeys. Orly is a horrible human being who will has no problem smearing anyone who disagrees with her. I am shocked that she has not been disbarred for her conduct.

  181. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 29, 2012 at 11:31 am #

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld: How many other reporters who were there have come forward on record besides Savannah Guthrie stating they felt the raised seal?

    The video shows the raised seal. But, I have to ask: How many reporters saying they felt the raised seal would it take to make you feel comfortable?

  182. avatar
    justlw July 29, 2012 at 11:45 am #

    Obsolete: Orly Taitz: None of the birther arguments were ever disproven.

    So Obama’s “real” father was both Malcolm X and Frank Marshall Davis?

    :lol:

  183. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 29, 2012 at 12:25 pm #

    Orly Taitz: A person who claims to be an investigator and claims that IRS checks the tax returns for errors is not telling the truth. There are millions of illegals in this country, according to statistics 70% of them have bogus SSNs and many of them pay taxes. Uncle Sam will never reject payment of taxes.

    It appears you don’t understand the difference between tax deposits and tax returns.

    Employers report tax deposits by Social Security numbers on the form 941 and they are then credited to the holder of the number for the purposes of calculating Social Security benefits. You’re right…..the governent never rejects those payments.

    What you are wrong about – as others have explained – is that a tax return with a conflict – wrong number, unmatched name, etc. – will be returned for correction.

  184. avatar
    JPotter July 29, 2012 at 12:36 pm #

    justlw:

    Who were both (apparently) British nationals? Birfers insist, so it must be true.

  185. avatar
    bgansel9 July 29, 2012 at 1:06 pm #

    Majority Will: And if she is ever indicted, letting her represent herself would be just.

    Perfect. Certainly poetic justice.

  186. avatar
    Rickey July 29, 2012 at 1:14 pm #

    Orly Taitz:

    A person who claims to be an investigator and claims that IRS checks the tax returns for errors is not telling the truth. There are millions of illegals in this country, according to statistics 70% of them have bogus SSNs and many of them pay taxes. Uncle Sam will never reject payment of taxes.

    Other have already responded to this, but since your comments were in response to something I said, I will chime in.

    There is a difference between paying taxes and filing a tax return. Most people pay their income taxes through withholding from their paychecks. People who are using fake Social Security Numbers do not file tax returns, as doing so would immediately bring the authorities down upon them. Undocumented aliens also pay sales taxes, exise taxes, etc.

    You are, supposedly, an attorney. One of your many weaknesses is that you fail to fully comprehend what people tell you. I never said that the IRS rejects payment of taxes. I sad that the IRS rejects tax returns if the Social Security Numbers on the returns do not match the names. Frankly, I am astonished that you do not know this. Also, as an employer you surely must know that when you hire a new employee you must verify that the person is legally eligible to work in the United States and has a valid Social Security Number.

    http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=98164,00.html

    I could not help but notice that you failed to respond to my question about why Sankey, Daniels and Sampson cannot provide you with the name of the person whose Social Security Number was “stolen” by President Obama.

  187. avatar
    bgansel9 July 29, 2012 at 1:23 pm #

    Oh yeah, and let’s talk about how common the name [redacted] is, shall we?

    The name [redacted]occurs 0.028% of the time for all female names in the U.S. It is the 428th most common female name: http://names.findthedata.org/l/1705/redacted

    As an aside, I would also expect that the name occurs much more in European countries (and probably bleeding into Eastern European and former Soviet countries) than in the U.S. which is probably why Orly thinks it’s common. Being a former citizen of Moldova she probably doesn’t know much about American culture and name usage (which might also explain her inability to understand the justice system here in America, one that she is licensed to practice in and constantly fails to comply with).

    The common form of the name [redacted]in American usage is the name [redacted](and sometimes [redacted]).

    It’s not common at all, but since Orly decided “[redacted]” was common enough to post this person’s name online, I hope that [redacted]sues her derriere to the highest of heavens.

    In all of my years on this earth, I’ve met about 6 [redacted]and no [redacted].

  188. avatar
    richCares July 29, 2012 at 1:31 pm #

    “…Social Security Number was “stolen” by President Obama.”
    both the one for 1890 and the one for 1990. (both of these are for Obama and both list the same address where Obama lived)

  189. avatar
    Rickey July 29, 2012 at 1:32 pm #

    Steven Feinstein:
    Of course, there were no such things as birth certificates when the Constitution was ratified. As such, from a constitutional perspective, a person needs neither a bc nor a social security number in order to be eligible to be President.This was the precise point that the gentleman in Indiana was trying to tell Orly during the hearing.It is a simple point that Orly cannot grasp.Therefore, even if the bc were forged, or the the SS# false, that would have nothing to with whether Mr. Obama were eligible to be president.If Orly could prove crimes then there could be impeachable offenses, but again, nothing to do with eligibility.

    First of all, welcome.

    Orly also fails to grasp the fact that even if the birth certificate had been forged, no crime was committed. The LFBC which was released last year has never been used for any official purpose. It was not used to obtain a driver’s license or a passport. It was merely shown to reporters and a copy of it was posted on the White House website. Neither act could conceivably amount to a crime. If proven to be a forgery it certainly would be damaging politically, but no law that I can conceive of would have been broken.

    Her claims about the President’s Social Security Number are laughable. She does not even understand how identity theft works. If I were to try to steal your Social Security Number, I would not use your number in conjunction with my name, because that is the surest way to get caught. What I would do is steal both your name and your Social Security Number and use them in conjunction with a different address than where you reside. Then I would use the information to obtain credit cards, loans, or even to get a job. Taking someone else’s SSN and using it with my name would be folly.

  190. avatar
    bgansel9 July 29, 2012 at 1:39 pm #

    Rickey: If I were to try to steal your Social Security Number, I would not use your number in conjunction with my name, because that is the surest way to get caught. What I would do is steal both your name and your Social Security Number and use them in conjunction with a different address than where you reside. Then I would use the information to obtain credit cards, loans, or even to get a job. Taking someone else’s SSN and using it with my name would be folly.

    That is exactly how it would work. My mother, after my father died, met a man who stole someone’s identity in the early 1960′s (he stole someone’s wallet at a state fair). He changed his name to the victim’s and used his social and other info for 30+ years before he was caught. He had three children who go by the victim’s last name. Both my mother and her identity thieving husband are now deceased, but, he was the first identity theft ever tried (and convicted) in a federal court (Lubbock, Texas District Court).

  191. avatar
    bgansel9 July 29, 2012 at 1:53 pm #

    And just to prove that I’m not lying about the story, here’s the write-up:
    http://www.texnews.com/1998/1999/local/id0328.html

    (Note: there are other children involved, the child mentioned in the story is not one of the three I mentioned above).

  192. avatar
    justlw July 29, 2012 at 2:00 pm #

    foreigner: Obsolete, these are no birther arguments but rather anti-birther-arguments
    (pro-eligibility)

    But they’re “Here’s why Obama won’t show his BC / why his BC has been altered” arguments.

    And there are a ton of other contradictory birther arguments you can choose from, if you wish. For example, that they went to all this effort to fake a US BC — then surrendered his citizenship in Indonesia.

    By the way: Are you intentionally avoiding the “Quote” feature, or is it that you’re posting from a mobile device?

  193. avatar
    bgansel9 July 29, 2012 at 2:05 pm #

    justlw: But they’re “Here’s why Obama won’t show his BC / why his BC has been altered” arguments.

    No, actually, they are “here’s why Obama is NOT ineligible” arguments.

  194. avatar
    justlw July 29, 2012 at 2:24 pm #

    bgansel9: No, actually, they are “here’s why Obama is NOT ineligible” arguments.

    They’re both.

    The birthers and such are only interested in the “why he’s hiding his BC” aspect, and are seemingly unconcerned that if it’s true, they’re undermining their “two citizen parent” fellow travelers’ pet theory.

  195. avatar
    G July 29, 2012 at 2:27 pm #

    Woah…! Thanks for sharing that.

    bgansel9:
    And just to prove that I’m not lying about the story, here’s the write-up:
    http://www.texnews.com/1998/1999/local/id0328.html

    (Note: there are other children involved, the child mentioned in the story is not one of the three I mentioned above).

  196. avatar
    bgansel9 July 29, 2012 at 2:29 pm #

    justlw: The birthers and such, of course, are only interested in the “why he’s hiding his BC” one,

    They only do it by twisting facts. The facts are stating why he’s not ineligible. We cannot control the actions of the birthers, they choose to misuse facts to their own detriment. The facts are not placed on this website to satisfy birther conspiracies. Its is only by ignoring the facts that the birthers make up their stories.

  197. avatar
    bgansel9 July 29, 2012 at 2:32 pm #

    G: Woah…! Thanks for sharing that.

    You’re welcome. There is no love lost between my mother and I (and her second husband was never someone I cared for at all). My mother couldn’t have a close relationship with someone who didn’t drink like a fish as she did (a 1 and 3/4 litre bottle of vodka a day, which he matched her drinking level after they met). I don’t care if anyone tries to link me to my lying mother and her thieving husband. I am as different from the two of them as night is different from day. My father was a saint, and a good man. He married a horrible woman (and was about to divorce her when he got terminally ill).

  198. avatar
    G July 29, 2012 at 2:32 pm #

    Of course they are that gullible. As a result of their ODS, *any* story, no matter how fabricated, which casts a bad light on Obama is assumed as the “gospel truth”, even if it is clearly marked as satire. It simply “feels true” to them, because they desperately WANT to think bad things about Obama, so they go only cling to that dark fantasy set of feelings. Actual truth and facts are irrelevant to their pathetic mindset.

    Just about every satire piece and April Fools article, taking a lighthearted swipe at Obama, no matter how clearly marked as such, has reappeared time and time again within RWNJ chain letters and Birther blogs as if it was “true”. No matter how ridiculous the satirical premise was, these ODS idiots gobble it up and now regurgitate it as part of their “evidence” against him…

    Thrifty: I’d like to say that Birthers wouldn’t fall for it, that they can’t possibly be that gullible, but I’m not so sure of that. We did have that one guy post about the joke clip from Obamacuts.

  199. avatar
    G July 29, 2012 at 2:34 pm #

    Well said!

    bgansel9: We cannot control the actions of the birthers, they choose to misuse facts to their own detriment. The facts are not placed on this website to satisfy birther conspiracies. Its is only by ignoring the facts that the birthers make up their stories.

  200. avatar
    Steven Feinstein July 29, 2012 at 3:22 pm #

    What passes for birther logic is really classic inductive reasoning. They all seem to suffer from it. They reach a conclusion and then look for things to support it and spin all facts in favor of that conclusion. Anything that does not support the conclusion is either rejected or becomes part of the conspiracy. That is why judges who decide against them are corrupt or have been “gotten to”. That is why the absence of a record of a Kenyan birth is not accepted but rather becomes evidence of a crime in Kenya. Therefore, there is no proving them wrong, ever. If they saw the Microfilm, they would claim that it was fabricated. Corsi is shrewd enough to set up his lies in advance. He had an “inside source” who told him that a fake “original” lfbc was being put in the vault in Hawaii. That way if the original were to be released he could still claim that it was fake.

    I could go chapter and verse into the logical fallacies involved in the two citizen parent requirement for NBC, but those here do not need the lesson. However, Apuzzo was recently seen saying that a person who is NBC is not a citizen of the United States (so I just shake my head).

    Perhaps my favorite recent birther claim is that the jpg of the lfbc that Gutherie posted on line showed a misspelling of the word Hawaii. Or course, it is simply a low resolution picture and is blurred, but given the fact that the pdf is also allegedly forged, this would mean that there were at least two different forgeries. When asked why it would make sense to create two different forgeries, I was asked why there would be even one (I guess they didn’t understand the reason for my question).

    This is also the reason that birthers are so easily punked. They will accept anything at face value that supports their contentions–anything. They are just so easy.

    One thing that became obvious to me is that this appears to be something personal with Orly. I recall seeing an interview where she was talking about the SS# and she said “I got him” and she had a look of what can only be described as glee on her face.

  201. avatar
    Rickey July 29, 2012 at 3:24 pm #

    bgansel9:
    And just to prove that I’m not lying about the story, here’s the write-up:
    http://www.texnews.com/1998/1999/local/id0328.html

    That’s a fascinating story. Perhaps Orly will read it and learn from it (not likely, I know).

  202. avatar
    bgansel9 July 29, 2012 at 3:29 pm #

    Steven Feinstein: What passes for birther logic is really classic inductive reasoning. They all seem to suffer from it. They reach a conclusion and then look for things to support it and spin all facts in favor of that conclusion. Anything that does not support the conclusion is either rejected or becomes part of the conspiracy.

    Confirmation Bias.

  203. avatar
    Thrifty July 29, 2012 at 3:39 pm #

    Really? Would you care to provide a citation for those statistics?

    Rhetorical question, since you won’t be seeing this question. I’m sure you’ve gone back to hiding in your heavily moderated web site so that your sycophants can lavish praise on you while you hide from your critics.

    Orly Taitz: A person who claims to be an investigator and claims that IRS checks the tax returns for errors is not telling the truth. There are millions of illegals in this country, according to statistics 70% of them have bogus SSNs and many of them pay taxes. Uncle Sam will never reject payment of taxes.

  204. avatar
    bgansel9 July 29, 2012 at 3:40 pm #

    Rickey: That’s a fascinating story. Perhaps Orly will read it and learn from it (not likely, I know).

    Yes, especially considering it covers how someone steals a social security card and uses it for 30+ years and gets away with it (committing other crimes in the victim’s name, along the way) and then gets caught when he accidentally uses HIS OWN NAME. Granted, it took the victim pushing the officials to pursue the case to find all of the information. I know that the IRS audits tax returns because my father was very successful in his line of business and took every tax deduction he could find to take, and my parents were audited every year at Christmas, like clockwork. But the IRS does make mistakes and I admit that. There was a mistake in this case. The IRS paperwork that was filed with the bankruptcy had names that didn’t match and apparently it wasn’t caught by the IRS. Perhaps that’s a reason to hire MORE federal workers to catch such things. They really are overworked.

    It also shows Orly HOW TO CONVICT A TAX CHEAT, if she’s really interested in trying (not that I believe Obama is a tax cheat, but, if she wants to pursue it using the valid path, we can get that business settled rather than allow it to remain a conspiracy theory – and maybe then Orly will find herself disbarred for bringing false charges against the president.) :P

    (I am a bit diabolical, huh?) LOL

  205. avatar
    bgansel9 July 29, 2012 at 3:46 pm #

    Steven Feinstein: This is also the reason that birthers are so easily punked.

    Steve, I also want to welcome you here. You’re a good addition to this site. Also, if you have a way to give me some keywords I could plug into Facebook, I’d like to find your page, without you or I giving away too much personal info. Thanks!

  206. avatar
    misha July 29, 2012 at 3:47 pm #

    CatMe: If this were the old USSR , you would be in jail or simply disappeared.

    She would be sent to Siberia, or committed to a mental institution. Instead, she makes speeches, with impunity, meant to incite a lone wolf.

    I got myself arrested at a Soviet Embassy demonstration, for the likes of her and Lieberman. I’m the one who needs his head examined.

    Don’t get me started on how her and the Ashkenazim treat black Jews.

  207. avatar
    Steven Feinstein July 29, 2012 at 3:47 pm #

    just send me a friend request on fb and I will add you to the group.

  208. avatar
    bgansel9 July 29, 2012 at 3:48 pm #

    Steven Feinstein:
    just send me a friend request on fb and I will add you to the group.

    Thanks. Will do. :)

  209. avatar
    Steven Feinstein July 29, 2012 at 3:50 pm #

    I want to correct something I said earlier, I did not mean to say that of course there were no birth certificates at the time the Constitution was ratified (I don’t know one way or the other), but there were no social security numbers.

  210. avatar
    misha July 29, 2012 at 3:52 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG:These people strike me as the sort who would turn to violence at the snap of a twig, and half the time you are screaming at them to make demands they are not entitled to make, of people who are just doing their jobs. I’m wondering when you or one of them will cross the line and someone ends up hurt or worse as a result.

    That meshuggener shonde knows exactly what she is doing.

  211. avatar
    bgansel9 July 29, 2012 at 3:55 pm #

    Steven Feinstein:
    just send me a friend request on fb

    I found a person who shares your name, and four mutual friends. I just sent a message. I am not sure if that’s you or not. Hope I got the right one.

  212. avatar
    misha July 29, 2012 at 3:56 pm #

    Steven Feinstein: Orly is a horrible human being who will has no problem smearing anyone who disagrees with her.

    Standard issue refusenik. Send that wallaby back, Jack.

  213. avatar
    Steven Feinstein July 29, 2012 at 4:00 pm #

    I am not concerned with organized violence from birthers, they have shown an incredible lack of ability to organize and I believe most are angry keyboard commandos. However, on an individual basis, I agree with Frank Arduini when he says his biggest fear is a birther with a gun.

    I have always placed birthers into two categories, the stupid and the evil. The evil ones know they are lying. The stupid ones are just being conned. I actually fear the stupid ones more as they are unstable and often armed. The evil ones are just con men. They will eventually move on to something else.

  214. avatar
    Reality Check July 29, 2012 at 4:18 pm #

    Welcome Steven. I have read through a number of articles on vital statistics in the last week and I thought one of them mentioned the first state issued birth certificate in the US was around 1850. I fairly sure you were right on both counts.

    Steven Feinstein:
    I want to correct something I said earlier, I did not mean to say that of course there were no birth certificates at the time the Constitution was ratified (I don’t know one way or the other), but there were no social security numbers.

  215. avatar
    Steven Feinstein July 29, 2012 at 4:22 pm #

    Thanks RC, I try to always be correct with my facts.

  216. avatar
    bgansel9 July 29, 2012 at 4:30 pm #

    Orly Taitz: There are millions of illegals in this country, according to statistics 70% of them have bogus SSNs and many of them pay taxes.

    See that? They aren’t complete freeloaders. They’re probably paying more than Mitt Romney (and they don’t get anything back) :P

    Sorry, I hadda do that.

  217. avatar
    y_p_w July 29, 2012 at 5:05 pm #

    bgansel9: See that? They aren’t complete freeloaders. They’re probably paying more than Mitt Romney (and they don’t get anything back)

    Sorry, I hadda do that.

    My understanding is that the majority of undocumented workers simply choose not to file taxes and thus don’t run the risk of using a fraudulent SSN on their return. As you implied, this typically means not getting a refund that one is entitled to regardless of status. Others use Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers with the knowledge that the information won’t be shared with other agencies that might have the authority to deport.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_Taxpayer_Identification_Number

  218. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG July 29, 2012 at 5:07 pm #

    misha: She would be sent to Siberia, or committed to a mental institution.

    Or forced to work the Dilithium mines of Rura Penthe

  219. avatar
    ObjectiveDoubter July 29, 2012 at 5:15 pm #

    I usually read Doc Conspiracy every few days, but don’t post. But now that Orly is reading it, here is the chance to tell her a few things. Her site is so riddled with technical problems that anything I post there seems to go into oblivion. For someone who brags of having won multiple six-figure law suits, you’d think a few bucks for a paid webmaster who could create a professional site — and run spell-check, for crying out loud — would come easily.

    And anything of mine that does get uploaded at OrLena’s site of course is not let through. Only fawning zealots get their posts printed and the occasional foul-mouthed anti-birther who Orly lets through so that she can further her self-image as a martyr for the cause.

    So I pose two simple questions for the Birther Diva:

    1) If you’re so sure that the BC image posted on the WH website is bogus, why do refuse to hire a professional expert or two to say so? An expert, btw, is one without a political agenda, one with professional, certified forensic credentials in document review.

    2) Laura Lingle, former GOP HI governor, is and has been a vocal opponent of Pres. Obama, so specifically why should her statements regarding seeing the official BC records not be accepted? (No, you cannot answer bribes, threats or other inducements unless you are specific about what they are, as Ms. Lingle is now running for Senator and seems pretty unfettered by any threats.)

  220. avatar
    Reality Check July 29, 2012 at 5:33 pm #

    AnitaMaria at the Fogbow astutely pointed out that Polarik was also in possession of an unredacted copy of Hawaii Girl’s BC just days after the WND published it. It is shown at 3:48 of his infamous “the Nordyke Twins BC’s are forged video”.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Jlpw9uy8_Hw

  221. avatar
    John Woodman July 29, 2012 at 5:36 pm #

    Looks like someone was passing them out like candy.

    “Hawaii Girl.” I like that. Better than “New Girl.” I think I’ll make the shift.

  222. avatar
    bgansel9 July 29, 2012 at 5:39 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Or forced to work the Dilithium mines of Rura Penthe

    I like that better.

  223. avatar
    bgansel9 July 29, 2012 at 5:43 pm #

    John Woodman: Looks like someone was passing them out like candy.

    Photocopies? This woman gives one person her birth certificate and they go and make a bunch of copies of it? Doc stated she said she had only one and Corsi had it. It would make sense if she had only one and now all of these people are coming out of the woodwork with the same document that they copied it and distributed it to others (apparently without her knowledge). Gosh, that’s rather rude, isn’t it?

  224. avatar
    JPotter July 29, 2012 at 5:50 pm #

    ObjectiveDoubter: now that Orly is reading it,

    Don’t be too sure of the ongoing present tense there. She pops in … once a year or so? Whenever a birfer prophet comes by, it launches a feeding frenzy. Who could keep up? Certainly not Orly. Unless it was a once/day blanket response.

    Hmmm …. I wonder if any birther activist would accept a once / day response challenge?

  225. avatar
    JPotter July 29, 2012 at 5:52 pm #

    bgansel9: Gosh, that’s rather rude, isn’t it?

    Very….but an utter lack of consideration for others is a core component of the birfer mindset, so it’s to be expected. If only someone had been on hand to warn her.

  226. avatar
    Keith July 29, 2012 at 6:02 pm #

    bgansel9: Majority Will: And if she is ever indicted, letting her represent herself would be just.

    Perfect. Certainly poetic justice.

    What is it that they say about lawyers that represent themself?

    I think it goes without saying.

  227. avatar
    G July 29, 2012 at 6:24 pm #

    ;)

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Or forced to work the Dilithium mines of Rura Penthe

  228. avatar
    justlw July 29, 2012 at 7:50 pm #

    ObjectiveDoubter: o, you cannot answer bribes, threats or other inducements unless you are specific about what they are

    What? You’re taking their most effective weapon away? Fight fair!

  229. avatar
    justlw July 29, 2012 at 7:52 pm #

    John Woodman: “Hawaii Girl.” I like that. Better than “New Girl.” I think I’ll make the shift.

    Maybe I’ll finally get “Who’s that girl? Who’s that girl? It’s [redacted]!” out of my head now.

  230. avatar
    donna July 29, 2012 at 8:07 pm #

    passing out her birth certificate is SO IRRESPONSIBLE

    i was told that one of the reasons they did away with long form birth certificates is, if they are lost or stolen, there’s too much information on them for identity theft

  231. avatar
    Steven Feinstein July 29, 2012 at 8:43 pm #

    In some states photocopying a BC is illegal

  232. avatar
    y_p_w July 29, 2012 at 9:34 pm #

    Steven Feinstein:
    In some states photocopying a BC is illegal

    They’d have one heck of a time trying to prosecute it. Another issue is that it could only be enforceable if copied and displayed within the state. They’d have a heck of a time trying to prosecute if someone lived out of state and scanned it for their own purposes.

    Wisconsin has such a law with exceptions for certain purposes such as insurance claims.

  233. avatar
    G July 29, 2012 at 9:49 pm #

    Yes, but in the end, the action was that this woman voluntarily gave her BC to these Birthers and trusted them with it in the first place.

    So she is having to learn the hard way why Birthers simply can’t be trusted…

    donna:
    passing out her birth certificate is SO IRRESPONSIBLE

    i was told that one of the reasons they did away with long form birth certificates is, if they are lost or stolen, there’s too much information on them for identity theft

  234. avatar
    bgansel9 July 29, 2012 at 9:53 pm #

    Keith: What is it that they say about lawyers that represent themself?

    I think it goes without saying.

    They have a fool for a client? (gee,and I didn’t even have to look that up. LOL)

  235. avatar
    bgansel9 July 29, 2012 at 9:55 pm #

    JPotter: Very….but an utter lack of consideration for others is a core component of the birfer mindset, so it’s to be expected. If only someone had been on hand to warn her.

    I realize this. I just felt the need to point it out.

  236. avatar
    JPotter July 29, 2012 at 11:07 pm #

    What was the conclusion of the “A man who has Orly Taitz for a lawyer ….” contest?

  237. avatar
    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter July 29, 2012 at 11:39 pm #

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld:
    I was just told Jerome Corsi is in Great Britain and wont be back until August 1st reporting his findings to Sheriff Arpaio.

    Well, I sure hope Corsi isn’t taking my Dreckled Band advice:

    “Well, I guess if it was a snake, it would have bit us. Here the Birthers are claiming that Obama is a British citizen and we have all missed the obvious response: If Obama, by operation of British law is a British citizen, then why are you suing in American courts???

    I mean, think about it for a minute. If there is some aspect of British law which is relevant, and you want to see it enforced, or to obtain a declaratory judgment, why would anyone go to an American court??? British courts should be involved. These suits should be taking place in England. Scotland Yard should be involved.”

    Duh!!!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  238. avatar
    El Diablo Negro July 30, 2012 at 1:30 am #

    Maybe the queen had some eggs preserved long ago and Ms. Dunham & Obama Sr. were the surrogates. Once the heir was born, Obama Sr. was not needed anymore.

    As a mixed race child, he would slip under the radar, being moved from place to place. And because his lineage is linked to the queen,that would make him an heir to the throne…If all other royalty happen to have…accidents…He would be King of England and President of the USA. Thus he can claim all USA property and England and begin a new reign. Yeah, that’s the ticket!

    Sorry, I have been awake far too long. Goodnight

    Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter: I mean, think about it for a minute. If there is some aspect of British law which is relevant, and you want to see it enforced, or to obtain a declaratory judgment, why would anyone go to an American court???

  239. avatar
    JD Reed July 30, 2012 at 1:05 pm #

    Orly Taitz: I .None of the birther arguments were ever disproven. No judge in the nation, no jury ever saw any original documents and never ruled that the Connecticut SSN used by Obama was legally given to him. No judge ever ruled that the Selective Service certificate with a 2 digit year stamp instead of a 4 digit year stamp is valid. No judge ever ruled that the alleged BC for Obama with Onaka’s smiling face, multiple layers and multple fonts and kerning is anything but a BS, a cheap computer generated forgery.

    None of the birther arguments were ever disproven?
    O really? How about:
     That there was a travel ban in effect in 1981, preventing individuals from traveling to Pakistan on U.S. passports. State department documents and New York Times articles from that era show conclusively that no such ban was in effect, and Americans were welcomed to visit. Also, the burden of proof — which you should be familiar with but sometimes I wonder – is on those who assert there was a travel ban, and they haven’t provided a shred of evidence.
     That the two daily newspapers in Honolulu in 1961 simply accepted the word of any one calling in to report a purported birth. This makes no sense business-wise or journalistically. Newspapers are labor intensive, so the most efficient use of time on the part of the employee would be to gather the info all at once from a single authoritative source, rather than gathering these data singly at various times throughout the workday, having to repeatedly interrupt whatever else she was doing and resuming it after taking the birth announcement. The single authoritative source method would also cut down on errors, make the list more comprehensive (because some families wouldn’t call in their blessed events at all) and prevent potential lawsuits arising from someone punking the newspaper with a false birth report.
    A spokesman for the now-merged newspapers has confirmed that they did not take individual call-ins about births, but used information the State Department of Health had collected from the hospitals.
     That Gov. Abercrombie, or his underlings, went to the Honolulu hospitals armed with search warrants seeking Obama’s hospital birth records? Hint: somebody with a law degree should know that search warrants apply only to criminal investigations, so any such warrant would have to specify what crime the documents sought would provide evidence for. But finding a genuine birth document for Mr. Obama in one of the hospitals would provide evidence not of a crime, but would tend to disprove the crime that you allege – obtaining and holding the presidency though ineligible.
    I’ve never heard of a search warrant that specifies what is not expected to be found, with that very failure to find constituting evidence of a crime.
    You say no judge ever ruled that the Connecticut SSN used by Obama was legally given to him. What you left unstated is that no judge has ever ruled that the SSN was illegal, either. Ditto, with the Selective Service certificate. And no judge has ever ruled that the BC is, in your words, “a BS, a cheap computer- generated forgery.”
     That Obama issue an executive order sealing his personal records. If you assert that he did, show us where the document is filed. No ideological website qualifies.
     That Obama’s campaign has spent millions of dollars hiding his personal records. So far it has been light work in turning back birther court challenges, as you know from your unbroken record of futility.
    Some birthers insist that Obama was born in Kenya, but among those, some argue he was born in Mombassa in the southeast corner of Kenya and some argue he was born in the northwestern corner of the country, in the Obama’s home village. By sheer logic, these two groups cannot both be right, although they both could be wrong.
    Similarly, some birthers argue that Obama was born in Kenya while others concede he was born in Hawaii, but claim he’s ineligible because one of his parents was not a citizen. As in the above example, one of these two groups has to be wrong.
    You say no judge ever ruled that the Connecticut SSN used by Obama was legally given to him. What you left unstated is that no judge has ever ruled that the SSN was illegal, either. Ditto, with the Selective Service certificate. And no judge has ever ruled that the BC is, in your words, “a BS, a cheap computer- generated forgery.”
    You should remember that a certain Georgia judge told you that merely wishing something is true does not make it so. You have 20,000 reasons to remember.

  240. avatar
    JD Reed July 30, 2012 at 1:10 pm #

    Sorry my previous post was repetitive in part due to my failure to kill out material
    I moved around in my post. But hey, some of the stuff bears reapeating …

  241. avatar
    justlw July 30, 2012 at 3:23 pm #

    JD Reed: That Obama issue an executive order sealing his personal records. If you assert that he did, show us where the document is filed. No ideological website qualifies.

    Ah, another personal favorite of mine, for the sheer birfer gall and/or ignorance involved in promoting it.

    Not just any executive order, mind you: his first executive order.

    A couple of problems with their claim. You may not be at all surprised to hear.

    First off, it (EO 13489) only related to White House documents. That means it had no effect whatsoever on the standard birfer relics (BC, SSN, SSS reg, school records).

    But more importantly, what it actually did was revoke Bush43′s EO 13233, which allowed any former president — or their family — to declare executive privilege and block access to any document related to their presidency. The Obama EO restored the rules that had been in effect since the Reagan administration.

    So: instead of sealing personal records, it made official White House records more accessible — again. Soooo close, birthers.

    EDIT: …and of course, Doc wrote about it a long time ago.

  242. avatar
    Thrifty July 30, 2012 at 7:39 pm #

    Is that the way these idiots operate? Every accusation is true until disproven in a court of law?

    Orly Taitz: None of the birther arguments were ever disproven. No judge in the nation, no jury ever saw any original documents and never ruled that the Connecticut SSN used by Obama was legally given to him. No judge ever ruled that the Selective Service certificate with a 2 digit year stamp instead of a 4 digit year stamp is valid. No judge ever ruled that the alleged BC for Obama with Onaka’s smiling face, multiple layers and multple fonts and kerning is anything but a BS, a cheap computer generated forgery.

  243. avatar
    JoZeppy July 30, 2012 at 8:29 pm #

    As a real lawyer, who graduate from a real law school, and actually makes a pay check practicing real law, I have to ask, “what the F are you thinking?” Burden of proof, lady. Look it up. Birther arguments aren’t assumed correct until disproven. In fact, a good portion of what you’re fighting carries a heavy presumption of being factual (the statements from Hawaii verifying the President’s birth, the Selective Service registration coming via a FOIA request). The President doesn’t need to “disprove” anything. Birther arguments need to be proven, and not only have you not done that, most have been shown to be utterly ridiculous. You’ve had the opportunity to put your circus act before a couple of judges by now, and they’ve had the same reaction to your purported “evidence.” That your witnesses aren’t remotely qualified, and your evidence is worthless.

    You’re a comedy act, lady. No one at the courts (or the bar in general) takes you seriously (I can say this with direct knowledge from the courts you’ve graced in DC). The fact that you call yourself a civil rights attorney, a constitutional law attorney, a dissident, and God only knows whatelse, only makes you appear even more unhinged. If this was all part of some kind of act, you would be the greatest performance artist since Andy Kaufman.

    Orly Taitz: None of the birther arguments were ever disproven. No judge in the nation, no jury ever saw any original documents and never ruled that the Connecticut SSN used by Obama was legally given to him. No judge ever ruled that the Selective Service certificate with a 2 digit year stamp instead of a 4 digit year stamp is valid. No judge ever ruled that the alleged BC for Obama with Onaka’s smiling face, multiple layers and multple fonts and kerning is anything but a BS, a cheap computer generated forgery.

    I saw this as well,

    Thrifty: Is that the way these idiots operate? Every accusation is true until disproven in a court of law?
    Orly Taitz: None of the birther arguments were ever disproven. No judge in the nation, no jury ever saw any original documents and never ruled that the Connecticut SSN used by Obama was legally given to him. No judge ever ruled that the Selective Service certificate with a 2 digit year stamp instead of a 4 digit year stamp is valid. No judge ever ruled that the alleged BC for Obama with Onaka’s smiling face, multiple layers and multple fonts and kerning is anything but a BS, a cheap computer generated forgery.

  244. avatar
    Steven Feinstein July 30, 2012 at 10:01 pm #

    JoZeppy-she never claimed to be a dissident, but rather a political decedent. As a former attorney, I share your sentiments completely.

  245. avatar
    JPotter July 30, 2012 at 10:03 pm #

    Thrifty: Is that the way these idiots operate? Every accusation is true until disproven in a court of law?

    Well, yeah.

    Today, a pet birther posted a tabloid (literal, supermarket tabloid!) report that Bill Clinton was near death. This, on the day the DNC announced he would be the big speaker at their convention! Seems like they would have used a health problem to drum up attention.

    When challenged, his defense was, “well, where are the reports that he is in good health?!? I haven’t seen any!”

    duh___ duh___ duh___ duhhhhh________________*

  246. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG July 30, 2012 at 10:20 pm #

    I always heard that it’s “Innocent until proven guilty”, but I guess when you’re a mentally handicapped crackpot like Taitz, it’s: “Guilty until potato!”

  247. avatar
    Northland10 July 30, 2012 at 10:34 pm #

    Steven Feinstein: JoZeppy-she never claimed to be a dissident, but rather a political decedent.

    With her last 2 runs for political office, her claim is accurate.

  248. avatar
    Keith July 30, 2012 at 11:11 pm #

    Thrifty:
    Is that the way these idiots operate?Every accusation is true until disproven in a court of law?

    Of course.

    When they talk about original intent by the founders of the our great nation, this is what they are talking about.

  249. avatar
    JD Reed July 30, 2012 at 11:57 pm #

    justlw: Ah, another personal favorite of mine, for the sheer birfer gall and/or ignorance involved in promoting it.Not just any executive order, mind you: his first executive order.).But more importantly, what it actually did was revoke Bush43′s EO 13233, which allowed any former president — or their family — to declare executive privilege and block access to any document related to their presidency. The Obama EO restored the rules that had been in effect since the Reagan administration.So: instead of sealing personal records, it made official White House records more accessible

    Yes, just so. Obama’s executive order was identical to Reagan’s in content, and more than 95 percent identical to it in language.

  250. avatar
    Rickey July 31, 2012 at 12:37 am #

    Northland10: With her last 2 runs for political office, her claim is accurate.

    Speaking of running, it looks like she has run away from here. She was thoroughly schooled, but I doubt that she learned anything.

  251. avatar
    foreigner August 1, 2012 at 1:20 am #

    don’t we have a Hawaiian reader here or on some other blog
    who can just go to the Hawaiian library and copy the
    relevant page from the Hawaiian 1961 natality report ?

    Or the Hawaiian 1961 “data book” should also have it,
    at least the statistics which races Hawaii reports on births,
    without the enumeration order of the races

    University of Hawaii library ?
    HDOH library ?

  252. avatar
    misha August 1, 2012 at 1:28 am #

    foreigner: don’t we have a Hawaiian reader here or on some other blog who can just go to the Hawaiian library and copy the relevant page

    This is the birth certificate you are looking for.

  253. avatar
    foreigner August 1, 2012 at 2:12 am #

    New York public library has it:
    you must somehow be registered to order it

    http://catalog.nypl.org/search~S1?/o2461620/o2461620/1%2C2%2C2%2CB/frameset&FF=o2461620&1%2C1%2C

    Title Annual report, Department of Health, State of Hawaii. Statistical supplement.
    Imprint Honolulu : The Dept., [1960?]-1970.

    Permanent link for this record
    Location Call No. Status Message
    OFFSITE – Request in Advance SDG (Hawaii (State). Health, Dept. of. Report. Statistical supplement) 1959-63 AVAILABLE ADV REQUEST

  254. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 1, 2012 at 7:44 am #

    I have an interlibrary loan request in for this. I’m guessing it will come from Duke University who also has it. The request was made 7/23 so it should arrive within another week. When it comes I’ll scan it assuming there is anything relevant.

    foreigner: New York public library has it:
    you must somehow be registered to order it

    Title Annual report, Department of Health, State of Hawaii. Statistical supplement.
    Imprint Honolulu : The Dept., [1960?]-1970.

  255. avatar
    foreigner August 1, 2012 at 9:09 am #

    I happened on some books/articles from Eleanor C. Nordyke
    about ethnic Hawaiian statistics in the 70s and before.
    Including one about black people in Hawaii.
    That must be the mother of the Nordyke twins,
    Maybe Corsi/Zullo should better have contacted her
    rather than Verna Lee.

    http://evols.library.manoa.hawaii.edu/bitstream/handle/10524/191/JL22277.pdf

  256. avatar
    justlw August 1, 2012 at 12:07 pm #

    foreigner: That must be the mother of the Nordyke twins,

    Yep.

    “But Nordyke was a population research fellow at the East-West Center while Dunham was there”

  257. avatar
    Horus August 1, 2012 at 1:40 pm #

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld: How many other reporters who were there have come forward on record besides Savannah Guthrie stating they felt the raised seal?

    Les Kinsolving of WND has verified that the BC was genuine.
    WND has buried Kinsolving’s article.

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/world-net-dailys-les-kinsolving-reacts-to-release-of-president-obamas-birth-certificate/

  258. avatar
    John Woodman August 1, 2012 at 2:16 pm #

    Horus:
    Ernst Stavro Blofeld:

    Les Kinsolving of WND has verified that the BC was genuine.
    WND has buried Kinsolving’s article.

    Of course they have. They’ve buried a lot of evidence, presenting only that evidence that supports what they want to “prove.”

    They had a report from Ivan Zatkovich, but they buried that. Zatkovich published it on his site. They had a report, apparently, from John Berryhill. That’s buried so deep it has never seen the light of day. They had my book before it was made officially available to the public — which showed that every theory they had put forth to the public was invalid, and explained exactly why. They buried that. They buried “Hawaii Girl’s” certificate number by swapping the original images out and then covering a section of safety paper image over the certificate number area on the back image. I contacted Arpaio’s posse and offered my help with the investigation. The posse never contacted me back. And they’ve had just as much access as anybody else to other analyses, such as those by Dr. Neal Krawetz, Frank Arduini, Kevin Davidson, and others. They’ve buried pretty much all of it. The list goes on and on.

  259. avatar
    Horus August 1, 2012 at 2:32 pm #

    Steven Feinstein: What passes for birther logic is really classic inductive reasoning. They all seem to suffer from it. They reach a conclusion and then look for things to support it and spin all facts in favor of that conclusion. Anything that does not support the conclusion is either rejected or becomes part of the conspiracy.

    Just like the people who deny Evolution as fact.

  260. avatar
    Thomas Brown August 1, 2012 at 3:06 pm #

    CatMe: Orly… You simply take information that you do not understand and put one and three together and call it five.

    You’re being too generous. She takes -1 and -3 and -4 and -2 and -6 and says it equals 5.

  261. avatar
    sfjeff August 1, 2012 at 3:29 pm #

    Thomas Brown: You’re being too generous. She takes -1 and -3 and -4 and -2 and -6 and says it equals 5.

    Classic Birtherism would be for a Birther to claim 2 + 2= 5,000.

    After having the math prove that 2 + 2 = 4,

    the birther would then declare “But fire hydrants are painted red!:

    Oh and that reminds me- Scott E is back at Politcalforum…

  262. avatar
    Benji Franklin August 1, 2012 at 9:44 pm #

    Horus: Steven Feinstein: What passes for birther logic is really classic inductive reasoning. They all seem to suffer from it. They reach a conclusion and then look for things to support it and spin all facts in favor of that conclusion. Anything that does not support the conclusion is either rejected or becomes part of the conspiracy.

    Just like the people who deny Evolution as fact.

    Actually,the fact is, that Evolution is “only” an overwhelmingly well-evidenced Scientific Theory, which most intelligent and educated people accept provisionally as “fact” until and if, more compelling and scientifically verifiable information is discovered, which would tend to disprove the theory by seriously calling it into question. Similarly, most intelligent and educated people accept Obama’s Article Two eligibility provisionally as “fact” until and if, more legally compelling and demonstrably verifiable historical information is discovered, which would tend to disprove the theory by seriously calling it into question.

  263. avatar
    The Magic M August 2, 2012 at 9:22 am #

    In that sense, the “theory” that Obama is eligible is on equal footing with any scientific theory – it even makes falsifiable predictions (such as “Hawaii will confirm he was born there”) which proved to be correct. :)
    Therefore one could conclude that Obama’s Hawaiian birth is about as settled as Einstein’s theory of relativity or basic particle physics.

  264. avatar
    justlw August 2, 2012 at 9:51 am #

    Benji Franklin: Evolution is “only” an overwhelmingly well-evidenced Scientific Theory

    Evolution is a fact. Natural selection is a theory, in the scientific sense, constructed from corroborating observation from multiple disciplines.

    Throwing out the facts that bolster natural selection would require denying the reality of multiple scientific disciplines. Not that that’s been considered an insurmountable obstacle by some folks.

  265. avatar
    justlw August 2, 2012 at 9:59 am #

    Ken Ham, by the way, would make an awesome birther. Part of his shtick includes inculcating small children to say, when confronted by anything that would indicate the Earth is more than 8,000 years old, “Were you there?

  266. avatar
    Majority Will August 2, 2012 at 10:36 am #

    justlw:
    Ken Ham, by the way, would make an awesome birther. Part of his shtick includes inculcating small children to say, when confronted by anything that would indicate the Earth is more than 8,000 years old, “Were you there?

    Wow.

    By that puerile and ridiculous standard of illogic, how many birthers were personal acquaintances of de Vattel or the Founding Fathers?

  267. avatar
    G August 2, 2012 at 2:42 pm #

    Excellent observation! Kudos.

    The Magic M: In that sense, the “theory” that Obama is eligible is on equal footing with any scientific theory – it even makes falsifiable predictions (such as “Hawaii will confirm he was born there”) which proved to be correct. Therefore one could conclude that Obama’s Hawaiian birth is about as settled as Einstein’s theory of relativity or basic particle physics.

  268. avatar
    misha August 2, 2012 at 5:04 pm #

    The Magic M: theory of relativity

    Leave my relatives out of this.

  269. avatar
    misha August 2, 2012 at 5:19 pm #

    Majority Will: how many birthers were personal acquaintances of de Vattel or the Founding Fathers?

    They all were. Here’s the explanation:
    http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/weekend-update-segment-pathological-liar/1348233/

  270. avatar
    Keith August 2, 2012 at 9:58 pm #

    The Magic M: Therefore one could conclude that Obama’s Hawaiian birth is about as settled as Einstein’s theory of relativity or basic particle physics.

    Except there are naysayers against relativity too…Was Einstein a fake?

    Can we expect a new Discovery Institute, armed with millions of dollars from eccentric fundamentalists, spoiling for a rematch in school boards across the U.S. — this time attacking Einstein and not Darwin?

    Hopefully not, according to Bryan Gaensler, a professor of physics at the University of Sydney. “The anti-relativity cranks are not nearly as well-organised as the creationists. Probably none of them would get along well enough to form a serious threat to science.”

    Having said that, he adds, “there has just begun a new series of conferences, held by anti-relativity cranks, called ‘Crisis in Cosmology’. I think the first one was held in Spain and they’re planning another. It looks exactly like a legitimate scientific conference, with the difference that everyone delivering a talk there is insane.”

    The conference planners sent out invitations to Gaensler and hundreds of other physicists. “Before registering,” he says, “you had to fill out this 10-point, bulleted manifesto, agreeing to all sorts of propositions from the start. For example, ‘I do not accept that the universe is expanding’, and so on, the kind of thing you would never see at a real scientific conference. It was hilarious.”

    Then there are those actual physicists who honestly think that relativity isn’t nearly as important as plasma in the physics of the universe at scales greater than solar systems.
    Plasma Cosmology. These ideas aren’t in favor with mainstream cosmology of course, but at least there is some legitimate thinking behind their ideas.