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Abusing the disabled

I had a special opportunity today to meet a young man who was a gold medalist at the 2011 Special Olympics in Athens. I’ve done some volunteer work with the Special Olympics over the years, and I along with the other folks I know find, interacting with these intellectually disabled people an enriching experience. Just the thought that anyone would take advantage of the disability of these folks enkindles outrage.

Birthers, although not necessarily lacking in intelligence, are disabled in certain critical discriminatory skills (a form of intellectual disability), and most are easy to take advantage of. While birthers in general are nowhere as pleasant and agreeable as Special Olympians, nevertheless it still upsets me to see their disability exploited. That brings me to Bob Unruh and his latest birther article at WorldNetDaily, “Eligibility resurrected: Congress pays attention.

Unruh uses phrases like “[Zullo] testified [in an Alabama case] that the White House computer image of Obama’s birth certificate contains anomalies…” when in fact Zullo did not testify in any normal sense of the word, but provided an affidavit that was submitted with one of the briefs to the Alabama Supreme Court, a body that won’t be holding a trial, considering any evidence at all, nor taking any testimony. Unruh is taking advantage of the intellectual disability of the birthers to look at the details of what is being said.

In another example Unruh says:

Zullo also has noted that the governor of Hawaii was unable to produce an original birth document for Obama, and it should have been easy to find.

Note the false equivalence between “produce” and “find.” Governor Abercrombie didn’t find anything he could legally produce (release of birth certificates being restricted under Hawaiian law), but this is not equivalent to being able to find the birth certificate. I can “find” the US Gold Reserve at Ft. Knox, but I cannot “produce” it. Again, abusing the intellectually disabled with this clever trick of language.

The intellectually disabled birthers are also disposed to believe outright lies in addition to falling for misleading language, for example:

The argument over Obama’s eligibility first was raised by Hillary Clinton’s campaign when she ran for the Democratic nomination for president in 2008.

And of course, Unruh’s still demanding Obama’s elementary school records.

It really makes me angry.

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176 Responses to Abusing the disabled

  1. avatar
    Arthur July 15, 2013 at 9:12 pm #

    Another recent example: some birthers placed an ad in the “Washington Times” containing typical misinformation about Obama, and ORYR headlines it as if this ad was an article published by the paper: http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2013/07/new-washington-times-ad-obama-id-fraud.html

  2. avatar
    john July 15, 2013 at 9:43 pm #

    Yes, Governor Abercrombie said he could not find or locate Obama’s birth certificate when he should have able find it after a 5 minute inquiry. As this news of Abercrombie’s “egg on his face” took off, the Hawaii AG ran “interference” for Governor Abercrombie stating he couldn’t release anything without Obama’s consent. This at odds with Obama’s perported release of his birth certificate in 2011.

  3. avatar
    misha marinsky July 15, 2013 at 10:07 pm #

    Here’s a sampling of fine Americans from that blog post. Just remember, these are the people the GOP panders to.

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2013/07/new-washington-times-ad-obama-id-fraud.html

    most black kids don’t know who their daddy is. Obama is just a long line of bastar$s whose daddy was nothing more then a sperm donor of his prostitute mother. – See more at: http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2013/07/new-washington-times-ad-obama-id-fraud.html#sthash.a8QNCHHO.dpuf

    i dont think prostitute fits, she was spreading her legs for free to any non white non american she could find. – See more at: http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2013/07/new-washington-times-ad-obama-id-fraud.html#sthash.a8QNCHHO.dpuf

  4. avatar
    Arthur July 15, 2013 at 10:24 pm #

    misha marinsky: Here’s a sampling of fine Americans from that blog post. Just remember, these are the people the GOP panders to.

    Yes, they are vulgar, hate-filled people. The cruel comments made in the wake of the Trayvon Martin verdict (on threads that had nothing to do with the trial) were vile and disturbing. I don’t know what’s more laughable, birther arguments, or the claim that birthers aren’t racists.

  5. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 15, 2013 at 10:29 pm #

    misha marinsky: Here’s a sampling of fine Americans from that blog post. Just remember, these are the people the GOP panders to.

    They can be a pretty disgusting bunch, can’t they?

    The folks I love are the ones who try to act like it’s really serious and something is going to happen….any day now.

    The scary ones talk about “2nd Amendment” solutions.

  6. avatar
    misha marinsky July 15, 2013 at 10:33 pm #

    Mark my words: When Cruz and Rubio run for president, there won’t be one word from Apuzzo or Taitz.

  7. avatar
    Terry K. July 15, 2013 at 10:35 pm #

    Unruh also privileges Zullo’s alleged authority by introducing him as “Lt. Mike Zullo.”

    I wrote Unruh for an explanation of where Zullo’s title came from. He hasn’t written me back.

  8. avatar
    misha marinsky July 15, 2013 at 10:40 pm #

    CarlOrcas: The scary ones talk about “2nd Amendment” solutions.

    Like Sharron Angle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharron_Angle#Second_Amendment

    On Bill Manders’ radio show, she stated…”And you know, I’m hoping that we’re not getting to Second Amendment remedies. I hope the vote will be the cure for the Harry Reid problems.”… “I hope that’s not where we’re going, but, you know, if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying, ‘My goodness, what can we do to turn this country around?’ I’ll tell you the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out.”

    Congressman Jim Clyburn said in January 2011 that “Sharron Angle’s endorsement of ‘Second Amendment remedies’ in her losing Nevada campaign against Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid contributed to the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.” Columnist E.J. Dionne did not blame Angle, but he did point out the connection between her call for “Second Amendment remedies” and the 2011 Tucson shooting.

  9. avatar
    misha marinsky July 15, 2013 at 10:42 pm #

    My dog and cat could win a debate with Rick Perry.

  10. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 15, 2013 at 11:09 pm #

    You have such a way with revising history.

    john: Yes, Governor Abercrombie said he could not find or locate Obama’s birth certificate when he should have able find it after a 5 minute inquiry.

  11. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 15, 2013 at 11:15 pm #

    Terry K.: I wrote Unruh for an explanation of where Zullo’s title came from. He hasn’t written me back.

    I know where it came from but this is a family blog and I promised Doc not to use language like that.

  12. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 15, 2013 at 11:18 pm #

    misha marinsky:
    My dog and cat could win a debate with Rick Perry.

    I have the ashes of several of our long departed pets that could win a debate with Rick Perry.

  13. avatar
    misha marinsky July 15, 2013 at 11:24 pm #

    john: Governor Abercrombie stating he couldn’t release anything without Obama’s consent. This at odds with Obama’s perported release of his birth certificate in 2011.

    Obama did give written consent. Do try to keep current.

    Also, learn to spell: “perported”

    “E” and “U” are not even close on the keyboard.

  14. avatar
    JD Reed July 15, 2013 at 11:36 pm #

    john: Yes, Governor Abercrombie said he could not find or locate Obama’s birth certificate when he should have able find it after a 5 minute inquiry. As this news of Abercrombie’s “egg on his face” took off, the Hawaii AG ran “interference” for Governor Abercrombie stating he couldn’t release anything without Obama’s consent. This at odds with Obama’s perported release of his birth certificate in 2011.

    First rattle out of the box, John, you add proof to what the Doc wrote.

  15. avatar
    Reality Check July 15, 2013 at 11:44 pm #

    Some would call it lying. Since John falsely accused me of lying I prefer to call it lying. John has been told the truth many times so he is lying. Did I tell you John is a liar? Just in case I didn’t John is a liar.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    You have such a way with revising history.

  16. avatar
    Rickey July 16, 2013 at 1:05 am #

    john:
    Yes, Governor Abercrombie said he could not find or locate Obama’s birth certificate when he should have able find it after a 5 minute inquiry.As this news of Abercrombie’s “egg on his face” took off, the Hawaii AG ran “interference” for Governor Abercrombie stating he couldn’t release anything without Obama’s consent.This at odds with Obama’s perported release of his birth certificate in 2011.

    Once again you either are lying or you are woefully ignorant of the facts.

    Abercrombie never said that he could not find or locate Obama’s birth certificate. This what actually happened:

    HONOLULU – Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie will end his quest to prove President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii because it’s against state law to release private documents, his office said Friday.

    State Attorney General David Louie told the governor he can’t disclose an individual’s birth documentation without a person’s consent, Abercrombie spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said.

    “There is nothing more that Gov. Abercrombie can do within the law to produce a document,” said Dela Cruz. “Unfortunately, there are conspirators who will continue to question the citizenship of our president.”

    Abercrombie, who was a friend of Obama’s parents and knew him as a child, launched an effort last month to find a way to dispel conspiracy theories that the president was born elsewhere. The governor said at the time he was bothered by people who questioned Obama’s birthplace for political reasons.

    But Abercrombie’s investigation reached a dead end when Louie told him the law restricted his options.

    Hawaii’s privacy laws have long barred the release of a certified birth certificate to anyone who doesn’t have a tangible interest.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/01/21/politics/main7271033.shtml?source=related_story

    If you had any integrity you would retract your statement, but I won’t hold my breath waiting for you to do so.

  17. avatar
    US Citizen July 16, 2013 at 1:44 am #

    WIth all due respect, I think the connection between the special olympics and birthers is tenuous at best.
    Being a birther is a choice and there are myriad facts to help them in their decision.
    I am disabled and it wasn’t my choice.

  18. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG July 16, 2013 at 2:02 am #

    A post by John…I could take the time to pick it apart, or watch another episode of “Retarded Policeman”…The latter would be a better use of my time.

  19. avatar
    Lupin July 16, 2013 at 5:43 am #

    US Citizen: WIth all due respect, I think the connection between the special olympics and birthers is tenuous at best.
    Being a birther is a choice and there are myriad facts to help them in their decision.
    I am disabled and it wasn’t my choice.

    To be fair, and without putting words in Doc’s mouth, I suppose he equates the birthers’ mindset with suffering from a mild form of mental disease like Asperger. If so, it isn’t their choice either — whether they’re obsessed with Obama’s birth, UFOs, the Virgin Mary or stamp collecting is really not relevant.

    That said, I very strongly suspect that folks like Apuzzo and Zullo are not Asperger-type sufferers but a modern breed of snake oil salesmen, fully deserving of being tarred and feathered and taken out of town on a rail.

  20. avatar
    3Fiddy5 July 16, 2013 at 8:05 am #

    Got this reply from David Farrarr

    “The whole point of the forgery is…why? If Hawaiian Heath Department officials have verified all the information that is contained in that document is the same information contained in their file…why make it appear like a forgery, unless they had to.
    Is there something in their files that would preclude Obama from taking oath of office of the President of the United States if an actual certified copy of Obama LFBC was ever publish?”

    I think he’s saying that Obama created a forgery that contains completely accurate information that has been verified by Hawaii.. Yet since he “forged” it, there must be something else he’s hiding?

    Any thoughts on how the courts might react to that? Sounded so ridiculous to me I’m struggling with a response other than.. “Huh?”.

  21. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 16, 2013 at 8:35 am #

    And if that is so, then they are not the audience for Mr. Unruh’s article, nor mine.

    Lupin: That said, I very strongly suspect that folks like Apuzzo and Zullo are not Asperger-type sufferers but a modern breed of snake oil salesmen, fully deserving of being tarred and feathered and taken out of town on a rail.

  22. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 16, 2013 at 8:40 am #

    As we all know, there are three eligibility criteria in the Constitution, and only three. Two of them, natural born citizen and age, are addressed completely by the birth certificate, and prove that Obama is eligible. The third, residence, could not be addressed by the birth certificate. There simply is nothing consistent with the President’s published birth certificate that could speak against his eligibility.

    3Fiddy5: Is there something in their files that would preclude Obama from taking oath of office of the President of the United States if an actual certified copy of Obama LFBC was ever publish?”

  23. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 16, 2013 at 8:45 am #

    I go back to Shermer’s book, The Believing Brain, in which he explains conspiracy thinking in terms of overdevelopment and underdevelopment of particular brain structures involved with pattern recognition and discrimination. I personally don’t think that birther “true believers” have a choice, any more than someone has a choice whether or not to become infected with a virus once exposed. I mean, who would actually make a conscious decision to believe something they knew was false?

    Lupin: To be fair, and without putting words in Doc’s mouth, I suppose he equates the birthers’ mindset with suffering from a mild form of mental disease like Asperger. If so, it isn’t their choice either — whether they’re obsessed with Obama’s birth, UFOs, the Virgin Mary or stamp collecting is really not relevant.

  24. avatar
    Northland10 July 16, 2013 at 8:59 am #

    misha marinsky:
    My dog and cat could win a debate with Rick Perry.

    Trump’s headpiece could win the debate, providing it left The Donald at home.

  25. avatar
    Majority Will July 16, 2013 at 9:55 am #

    3Fiddy5:
    Got this reply from David Farrarr

    “The whole point of the forgery is…why? If Hawaiian Heath Department officials have verified all the information that is contained in that document is the same information contained in their file…why make it appear like a forgery, unless they had to.
    Is there something in their files that would preclude Obama from taking oath of office of the President of the United States if an actual certified copy of Obama LFBC was ever publish?”

    I think he’s saying that Obama created a forgery that contains completely accurate information that has been verified by Hawaii..Yet since he “forged” it, there must be something else he’s hiding?

    Any thoughts on how the courts might react to that? Sounded so ridiculous to me I’m struggling with a response other than.. “Huh?”.

    It’s a cheap birther smear tactic and propaganda technique using F.U.D. or fear, uncertainty and doubt.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt

    It’s the birthers’ favorite, “What is he hiding?” meme.

    It’s also an opportunity for close minded birther bigots to demean and delegitimize the President. For some, it is a cultural bias or based on ethnicity. They’re saying he’s not one of us (whoever us is).

    They want to spread fear like a virus that the President is not acceptable as an American or member of this society based on their narrow and bigoted worldview.

  26. avatar
    Rickey July 16, 2013 at 10:32 am #

    3Fiddy5:
    Got this reply from David Farrar.

    “The whole point of the forgery is…why? If Hawaiian Heath Department officials have verified all the information that is contained in that document is the same information contained in their file…why make it appear like a forgery, unless they had to. Is there something in their files that would preclude Obama from taking oath of office of the President of the United States if an actual certified copy of Obama LFBC was ever publish?”

    I think he’s saying that Obama created a forgery that contains completely accurate information that has been verified by Hawaii..Yet since he “forged” it, there must be something else he’s hiding?

    Any thoughts on how the courts might react to that?Sounded so ridiculous to me I’m struggling with a response other than.. “Huh?”.

    The courts would not respond at all, except to note that it is sheer speculation, unsupported by even a shred of evidence.

    You might want to ask Farrar this: “Since Hawaii has verified Obama’s age and that he was born in Hawaii, what other information could his birth certificate possibly contain which would disqualify him from being President?”

    Of course, the PDF copy of the birth certificate which the White House released only “appears like a forgery” in the fevered minds of birthers such as David Farrar.

  27. avatar
    scott e July 16, 2013 at 11:02 am #

    don’t get mad doc, get even. and you are by running this blog. you are putting out, “producing” a product of you own belief system. I commend you for going a long way toward representing the anti birther side. you are more prolific than anyone I know of in this arena.

    try spinning the chessboard around from time to time. sometimes in debate class the teacher would switch the pro and con roles at the last minute.

    why do you care id bob unruh demands Obama records, they’re private.

  28. avatar
    Jim July 16, 2013 at 11:46 am #

    Northland10: Trump’s headpiece could win the debate, providing it left The Donald at home.

    My money’s on the Donald’s father winning the debate…
    http://goodmenproject.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/trump-orangutan.jpg

  29. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 16, 2013 at 12:25 pm #

    I have seriously tried this. There is simply no intellectually honest argument that can be made against Obama’s eligibility. If the game were chess, and I had the birther side, I would resign. If it were a debate I would concede.

    There are just some things that I wouldn’t do in a debate;

    1) lie
    2) misstate the facts
    3) take material out of context
    4) use logical fallacies to make a point
    5) use rhetorical tricks to persuade

    Without these there is no birther position and there is no birther side to the discussion.

    scott e: try spinning the chessboard around from time to time. sometimes in debate class the teacher would switch the pro and con roles at the last minute.

  30. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 16, 2013 at 12:26 pm #

    I don’t care what he asks for. What I care about is that he misleads others about the facts.

    scott e: why do you care id bob unruh demands Obama records, they’re private.

  31. avatar
    scott e July 16, 2013 at 12:34 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I don’t care what he asks for. What I care about is that he misleads others about the facts.

    there is misleading on both sides, when the smoke clears away, we should have a better picture.

  32. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 16, 2013 at 1:14 pm #

    scott e: try spinning the chessboard around from time to time. sometimes in debate class the teacher would switch the pro and con roles at the last minute.

    Did the teacher let you walk away when you didn’t like the questions you were asked?

    When are you going to get back to the many unanswered questions that littler thread after thread on this blog?

  33. avatar
    scott e July 16, 2013 at 1:58 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Did the teacher let you walk away when you didn’t like the questions you were asked?

    When are you going to get back to the many unanswered questions that littler thread after thread on this blog?

    I told you carl, there is maybe one more birther here maybe two ? I have answered a lot of questions. in all fairness not all get posted, I have no control over that.

    it’s not right for so many of you to bury me in questions, that I can’t respond to. let’s try to or three at a time. you seem civil, I wish some here would get past the name calling. it doesn’t make sense, nor does the tit for tat.

  34. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 16, 2013 at 2:07 pm #

    Here are all the deleted comments in their entirety. Which one is a substantive answer to anything?

    nevermind, I found them in the comment section…


    I couldn’t view the story that had these quotes. it’s disgusting though you are right.
    there’s no place for that kind of nastiness.


    he’s not from Chicago. michelle is though.


    funny, you can call me an idiot here, and I have to couch every comment. if it’s not bryan or Rockwell… wouldn’t it be funny if it was alinsky’s own son david…??\


    me too. it’s fascinating.


    society has no obligation to render an opinion about anything. that’s why people outside the arena should evaluate objectively, if they can.

    you would say the same thing if you were on this side of the chessboard.


    remember Nixon could only invoke executive privilege for himself. it was the people surrounding him that brought down that administration. like the actual names of the people who brought forth the documents. but there needs to be conclusive cause, and that is what this is all about. but the birther sides claims to have it.

    we’ll all find out together. we are hearing about more instances of intimidation. it’s hard to believe that still goes on this day and age, I hope i’m wrong about Chicago, or as mike royko said, “I may be wrong, but I doubt it.”


    ok, send me your script….


    I can only take a couple of question here, i’m limited by space and moderation by doc. also my time. some of the longer questions requiring substantive response could perhaps be better addressed.


    I noticed that, all is fair, it’s your blog/forum.


    no, does that imply he couldn’t have been ??\


    this reads like a bad movie review. why did Obama need special permission when he could have done the same thing with foia ?? there was too much hoopla for such a simple situation. sounds made up to me.


    that’s what I thought….


    I don’t care for your tone Kenneth. you have to ask nicely… (like jack Nicholson, a few good men)


    Michael isikoff again… never answered my emails or tweets, savannah either.


    just the opposite, I don’t feel foolish at all. this gets more interesting everyday.


    scott e: I have answered a lot of questions. in all fairness not all get posted, I have no control over that.

  35. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater July 16, 2013 at 2:28 pm #

    Hmm looks like in that string of comments Doc posted not a single real answer to any questions asked. As usual Scotty avoids direct questions.

  36. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 16, 2013 at 2:34 pm #

    When are you leaving?

    scott e: when the smoke clears away, we should have a better picture.

  37. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 16, 2013 at 2:35 pm #

    Actually, there isn’t.

    scott e: there is misleading on both sides

  38. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater July 16, 2013 at 3:10 pm #

    scott e: there is misleading on both sides, when the smoke clears away, we should have a better picture.

    Except that’s a lie as there is only misleading on the birther side

  39. avatar
    Majority Will July 16, 2013 at 3:21 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: Except that’s a lie as there is only misleading on the birther side

    Evidently, following, respecting and understanding the law and historical precedent while ignoring deliberate lies and deception is considered unfair and misleading to many birthers.

  40. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 16, 2013 at 3:31 pm #

    scott e: I told you carl, there is maybe one more birther here maybe two ? I have answered a lot of questions. in all fairness not all get posted, I have no control over that.

    Actually, scott, you directly answer very few questions. At best your responses are 50-50: Ignored or evaded.

    scott e: t’s not right for so many of you to bury me in questions, that I can’t respond to. let’s try to or three at a time. you seem civil,

    That’s disingenuous, scott. If you have time to post the messages you do then you have the time to answer the clear direct questions.

    If you really want to try again just go to any thread you have been active in over the last couple weeks and scroll through and you will find many reasonable, substantive questions that you haven’t dealt with. I bet Doc could even point you to some of them or, at least, to the threads.

    Let’s see how that goes.

  41. avatar
    scott e July 16, 2013 at 3:44 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Actually, scott, you directly answer very few questions. At best your responses are 50-50: Ignored or evaded.

    That’s disingenuous, scott. If you have time to post the messages you do then you have the time to answer the clear direct questions.

    If you really want to try again just go to any thread you have been active in over the last couple weeks and scroll through and you will find many reasonable, substantive questions that you haven’t dealt with. I bet Doc could even point you to some of them or, at least, to the threads.

    Let’s see how that goes.

    of course… let’s start with harry reid, is it fair to say some posters here said that he never said those things and certainly not from the senate floor ?

    and did Obama need a special waiver to get his long form, or could he have filed foia. wasn’t that misleading ??

  42. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 16, 2013 at 4:08 pm #

    No, not misleading at all. A special waiver is required to get a long form birth certificate in Hawaii.

    Assuming the FOIA route actually works (all we have is a comment by a reporter on TV), it would not result in a long form birth certificate, only a photocopy of the record, not certified and not on security paper. Any confusion results from not understanding what a birth certificate is, and I have several tutorial articles on that topic.

    scott e: and did Obama need a special waiver to get his long form, or could he have filed foia. wasn’t that misleading ??

  43. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater July 16, 2013 at 4:14 pm #

    scott e: of course… let’s start with harry reid, is it fair to say some posters here said that he never said those things and certainly not from the senate floor ?and did Obama need a special waiver to get his long form, or could he have filed foia. wasn’t that misleading ??

    Vital records are exempt from FOIA requests.

  44. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater July 16, 2013 at 4:15 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: No, not misleading at all. A special waiver is required to get a long form birth certificate in Hawaii. Assuming the FOIA route actually works (all we have is a comment by a reporter on TV), it would not result in a long form birth certificate, only a photocopy of the record, not certified and not on security paper. Any confusion results from not understanding what a birth certificate is, and I have several tutorial articles on that topic.

    I notice Scotty is still directing away from the questions that were asked of him again.

  45. avatar
    Jim July 16, 2013 at 4:24 pm #

    scott e: of course… let’s start with harry reid, is it fair to say some posters here said that he never said those things and certainly not from the senate floor ?

    and did Obama need a special waiver to get his long form, or could he have filed foia. wasn’t that misleading ??

    Tell you what Scott, how about we answer all your questions with questions until you answer some of the many posted to you? Would that feed your need to be so obtuse? Doesn’t the avoidance of all questions put to you here not show that your only need is that of a 2 year-old who asks “why, why, why?”. Of course, a 2 year-old communicates…you haven’t advanced that far.

  46. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 16, 2013 at 4:46 pm #

    scott e: of course… let’s start with harry reid, is it fair to say some posters here said that he never said those things and certainly not from the senate floor ?

    and did Obama need a special waiver to get his long form, or could he have filed foia. wasn’t that misleading ??

    Actually, scott, I was talking about the questions I have asked you and you have ignored but there are plenty of others you can add to the list.

    As far as whatever Senator Reid said I don’t believe I have said or asked anything about it.

    As far as the long form birth certificate is concerned it appears Doc has answered that question for you.

    Now…..can we get back on track?

  47. avatar
    Oaka July 16, 2013 at 7:58 pm #

    “But didn‘t Hillary dump on Obama a few days
    ago for playing up his Indonesian roots? So,
    what is she up to here? Is she pushing how
    great he is for having been born in Indonesia,
    or what, or simply reminding everybody about
    his background, his Islamic background?”

    Chris Matthews
    December 2007

  48. avatar
    Keith July 16, 2013 at 8:04 pm #

    scott e: of course… let’s start with harry reid, is it fair to say some posters here said that he never said those things

    I don’t believe that anyone here ever said that Reid did not accuse Romney of not paying taxes. Reid accused Romney of ‘basically paying no taxes’.

    and certainly not from the senate floor ?

    I said that it was not said from the Senate floor, and was therefore not subject to ‘Parliamentary Privilege’. I was half right.

    He said it on the Senate Floor, but he repeated it outside, several times. The repetitions are not subject to Privilege. He has not been sued. Why not?

  49. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater July 16, 2013 at 8:30 pm #

    Oaka:
    “But didn‘t Hillary dump on Obama a few days
    ago for playing up his Indonesian roots? So,
    what is she up to here? Is she pushing how
    great he is for having been born in Indonesia,
    or what, or simply reminding everybody about
    his background, his Islamic background?”

    Chris Matthews
    December 2007

    I notice you give no particular date for the show. Could you narrow it down? When in december? Thus far I’ve only seen birther sites spreading this quote around but no actual clip of Matthews actually making this claim.

  50. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 16, 2013 at 8:55 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: I notice you give no particular date for the show.Could you narrow it down?When in december?Thus far I’ve only seen birther sites spreading this quote around but no actual clip of Matthews actually making this claim.

    Like you I find no video but a couple of sites give the precise date as December 18, 2007.

    All the hits I get in Google are from 2010 or later. Nothing earlier.

  51. avatar
    Rickey July 16, 2013 at 9:29 pm #

    scott e: of course… let’s start with harry reid, is it fair to say some posters here said that he never said those things and certainly not from the senate floor ?

    You have already been told that Harry Reid said that he was told by a Bain Capital investor that Romney didn’t pay any income taxes for ten years. He never said that he had personal knowledge that Romney didn’t pay his taxes.

    If you have a link to a direct quote by Reid to the contrary, let’s have it.

  52. avatar
    Rickey July 16, 2013 at 9:48 pm #

    Oaka:
    “But didn‘t Hillary dump on Obama a few days
    ago for playing up his Indonesian roots? So,
    what is she up to here? Is she pushing how
    great he is for having been born in Indonesia,
    or what, or simply reminding everybody about
    his background, his Islamic background?”

    Chris Matthews
    December 2007

    Here is what Chris Matthews said during his show on December 18, 2007:

    MATTHEWS: So, is Hillary backer Bob Kerrey pretending to sell Obama, but clearly putting the shiv in?

    Here is Hillary Clinton defending him and Bob Kerrey: “I think the remarks were very positive. I know Bob. He was being very complimentary of Senator Obama. He was making a point that Senator Obama makes himself all the time, that, because of his upbringing and his heritage, he is, in his view”—“in his view”—catch that line—“very well-suited to communicate with the rest of the world. And he has just himself that he wants to have a particular outreach to the Islamic world. So, I think Senator Kerrey was being, you know, very generous in what he said.”

    But didn‘t Hillary dump on Obama a few days ago for playing up his Indonesian roots? So, what is she up to here? Is she pushing how great he is for having been born in Indonesia, or what, or simply reminding everybody about his background, his Islamic background?

    Matthews was talking about comments which Kerrey had made, but Kerrey never suggested that Obama was “born” in Indonesia, and neither did Hillary Clinton. Here is the transcript:

    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/22326842/ns/msnbc-hardball_with_chris_matthews/t/hardball-chris-matthews-dec/#.UeX2bZwpiwa

  53. avatar
    US Citizen July 17, 2013 at 2:35 am #

    Lupin: To be fair, and without putting words in Doc’s mouth, I suppose he equates the birthers’ mindset with suffering from a mild form of mental disease like Asperger. If so, it isn’t their choice either — whether they’re obsessed with Obama’s birth, UFOs, the Virgin Mary or stamp collecting is really not relevant.

    That said, I very strongly suspect that folks like Apuzzo and Zullo are not Asperger-type sufferers but a modern breed of snake oil salesmen, fully deserving of being tarred and feathered and taken out of town on a rail.

    Lupin, thank you for your reply.
    I agree with you.
    At least halfway.
    That is, your reply commented on the birther’s condition only.
    There was no mention in regards to the disabled, the originally chosen comparative.
    I wonder how people in the special olympics would appreciate being compared to birthers.

    This isn’t a criticism though. It’s just the mention of an omission.
    It’s a fairly natural response from someone closer to the disabled camp than the birther’s to be sympathetic of those so often dismissed.
    I guess I’m sensitive to disabled people being used in what I consider a specious comparison.

  54. avatar
    Keith July 17, 2013 at 5:54 am #

    scott e may have something going on. He answered direct challenges to answer questions with more nonsense questions. AND ‘WE’, including ME, answered him.

    In New studies: Conspiracy theorists’ sane; government dupes crazy, hostile it is claimed that:

    The authors were surprised to discover that it is now more conventional to leave so-called conspiracist comments than conventionalist ones: “Of the 2174 comments collected, 1459 were coded as conspiracist and 715 as conventionalist.”

    Heck! That’s a 2 to 1 ratio! Conventionalists (AKA “debunkers”) are in the minority!

    In other words, among people who comment on news articles, those who disbelieve government accounts of such events as 9/11 and the JFK assassination outnumber believers by more than two to one. That means it is the pro-conspiracy commenters who are expressing what is now the conventional wisdom, while the anti-conspiracy commenters are becoming a small, beleaguered minority.

    Beleaguered! That’s us!

    Additionally, the study found that so-called conspiracists discuss historical context (such as viewing the JFK assassination as a precedent for 9/11) more than anti-conspiracists. It also found that the so-called conspiracists to not like to be called “conspiracists” or “conspiracy theorists.”

    And while discussing the book Conspiracy Theory in America by “political scientist” Lance deHaven-Smith, it is claimed that:

    Professor deHaven-Smith explains why people don’t like being called “conspiracy theorists”: The term was invented and put into wide circulation by the CIA to smear and defame people questioning the JFK assassination! “The CIA’s campaign to popularize the term ‘conspiracy theory’ and make conspiracy belief a target of ridicule and hostility must be credited, unfortunately, with being one of the most successful propaganda initiatives of all time.”

    In other words, people who use the terms “conspiracy theory” and “conspiracy theorist” as an insult are doing so as the result of a well-documented, undisputed, historically-real conspiracy by the CIA to cover up the JFK assassination. That campaign, by the way, was completely illegal, and the CIA officers involved were criminals; the CIA is barred from all domestic activities, yet routinely breaks the law to conduct domestic operations ranging from propaganda to assassinations

    So it is ‘us’ that’s on the run!

    Maybe, that’s why scott e doesn’t want to answer questions; he’s too much in the majority to stoop to bothering to defend himself.

    Answering questions is for losers.

  55. avatar
    scott e July 17, 2013 at 11:27 am #

    Rickey: You have already been told that Harry Reid said that he was told by a Bain Capital investor that Romney didn’t pay any income taxes for ten years. He never said that he had personal knowledge that Romney didn’t pay his taxes.

    If you have a link to a direct quote by Reid to the contrary, let’s have it.

    did you see that video from the senate floor ?? I don’t understand the confusion here.

  56. avatar
    scott e July 17, 2013 at 12:29 pm #

    scott e: I thought reid broadcasting from the senate floor that Romney hadn’t paid his taxes for ten years was inappropriate. my immediate thought was, “wouldn’t the IRS know about that?”. it seemed political to me.

    dr. noisewater:
    You also thought wrong since this didn’t happen from the senate floor let alone within the senate.

    ********
    I don’t understand why this is a sticking point. here is harry reid on cspan saying let him prove he has because he hasn’t. now what is your argument ? that he never said it, or this isn’t the U.S. senate ? that it’s some sort of voice over ? I honestly don’t get it.

    read the discussion again please: http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2013/07/waiting-for-zullo/

  57. avatar
    scott e July 17, 2013 at 5:10 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    No, not misleading at all. A special waiver is required to get a long form birth certificate in Hawaii.

    Assuming the FOIA route actually works (all we have is a comment by a reporter on TV), it would not result in a long form birth certificate, only a photocopy of the record, not certified and not on security paper. Any confusion results from not understanding what a birth certificate is, and I have several tutorial articles on that topic.

    this is where we part opinion. we’re talking about CNN in primetime. now why can’t we just get the straight dope ? what about the harry reid thing. was it the senate floor or wasn’t it ??

  58. avatar
    Keith July 17, 2013 at 6:13 pm #

    scott e: scott e: I thought reid broadcasting from the senate floor that Romney hadn’t paid his taxes for ten years was inappropriate. my immediate thought was, “wouldn’t the IRS know about that?”. it seemed political to me.

    Reid didn’t say or imply or relay someone else’s charge that Romney had not FILED a tax return. He said someone told him that Romney ‘basically had not paid taxes’. Do you not see the difference?

    RMoney, being a bazillionaire, took advantage of every trick in the book, including hidden offshore tax havens in order to reduce his tax liability to essentially zero. Is that indicative of Presidential qualities?

  59. avatar
    Keith July 17, 2013 at 6:18 pm #

    Keith: In New studies: Conspiracy theorists’ sane; government dupes crazy, hostile it is claimed that:

    By the by, since no one has pulled me up on this comment, I just thought I’d point out that there are so many holes and misrepresentations in the article that the original report is almost unrecognizable.

  60. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG July 17, 2013 at 6:30 pm #

    Scott got so owned that I felt it all the way here!

  61. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 17, 2013 at 8:02 pm #

    Here we get to Doc’s Law: Every mainstream news outlet doing a story on Obama’s eligibility gets at least one detail wrong.

    In the case of CNN and UIPA (FOIA in Hawaii), I suspect that they were right; however, the avenue wouldn’t work for Obama because the result isn’t a birth certificate.

    My point, though, was about the anti-birther bloggers never trying to mislead anyone, not about no one ever getting something wrong.

    As for someone making the claim that Harry Reid said something on the floor of the Senate, this issue is off topic for this blog.

    scott e: this is where we part opinion. we’re talking about CNN in primetime. now why can’t we just get the straight dope ? what about the harry reid thing. was it the senate floor or wasn’t it ??

  62. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 17, 2013 at 8:10 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: As for someone making the claim that Harry Reid said something on the floor of the Senate, this issue is off topic for this blog.

    Doc,

    Here is a PolitiFact piece from August 2012 detailing all the events around Reid’s July 31st comments:

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/aug/06/harry-reid/harry-reid-says-anonymous-source-told-him-mitt-rom/

    He said it….on and off the Senate floor.

  63. avatar
    MattR July 17, 2013 at 8:15 pm #

    scott e: I don’t understand why this is a sticking point. here is harry reid on cspan saying let him prove he has because he hasn’t. now what is your argument ? that he never said it, or this isn’t the U.S. senate ? that it’s some sort of voice over ? I honestly don’t get it.

    Anything said on the House or Senate floor is protected speech and the speaker cannot be held accountable for it in any legal proceedings (obviously, it can lead to him/her being voted out of office). If Reid repeated the statement in an interview on TV he no longer has that protection and can be sued for slander. Granted the bar for such a suit is high, but if Reid was recklessly disregarding the truth he would be liable for statements made on TV, but not those made on the Senate floor. If Reid had initially made his statement in the Senate and then refused to repeat the claim on TV, it would be significant evidence that he knew it was a lie.

  64. avatar
    Crustacean July 17, 2013 at 8:22 pm #

    I read the article, Keith. Thanks! This gets to the stuff I’m most interested in; not so much the nuts ‘n bolts of why birthers are wrong (that case is closed, as far as I’m concerned), but rather WHY. Why do some people believe outrageous theories but reject others that are far more plausible? What happens in conspiracists’ brains that makes them go off the rails, and could it happen to me?

    I’m still trying to wrap my mind around this tidbit from the “What About Building 7” report: “…an underlying conspiracist worldview in which the details of individual conspiracy theories are less important than a generalized rejection of official explanations.”

    Is it some kind of psycho-allergic reaction to people of authority? Too many episodes of ’24’ in a row?

    Wait, I know! It’s all that flouride ‘they’ put in our water that’s turning people into conspiracists. WAKE UP, SHEEPLE!! IT’S THE FLOURIDE!!!

    Keith: By the by, since no one has pulled me up on this comment, I just thought I’d point out that there are so many holes and misrepresentations in the article that the original report is almost unrecognizable.

  65. avatar
    Rickey July 17, 2013 at 10:16 pm #

    scott e:

    I don’t understand why this is a sticking point. here is harry reid on cspan saying let him prove he has because he hasn’t. now what is your argument ? that he never said it, or this isn’t the U.S. senate ? that it’s some sort of voice over ? I honestly don’t get it.

    According to Politifact, this is what Reid said on the Senate floor:

    “As we know, he [Romney] has refused to release his tax returns. If a person coming before this body wanted to be a Cabinet officer, he couldn’t be if he had the same refusal Mitt Romney does about tax returns. So the word is out that he has not paid any taxes for 10 years. Let him prove he has paid taxes, because he has not.”

    Reid did not say that he had personal knowledge that Romney didn’t pay any income tax for ten years. He had already made it quite clear a few days earlier that he had been told it by someone who had invested with Bain Capital. He also made it clear that if the information was wrong, Romney could disprove it by releasing his tax returns, but “he has not.”

    In fact, as of today Romney hasn’t proven that he paid income taxes during those ten years. And Reid didn’t say anything which would be actionable, regardless of where he said it.

  66. avatar
    Suranis July 17, 2013 at 10:55 pm #

    I remember there was a Hawaiin freeper called Danae that insisted she could get a copy of her long form. She went to the Hawaii DOH to get one and applied under a rule where she had to prove she had native Hawaiin blood to get a special status under Hawaiin law (I forget the exact details offhand. When she got the Result in the mail she got

    (1) A receipt
    (2) A Short form BC exactly like the one that Obama showed in 2008
    (3) a NON CERTIFIED PHOTOCOPY of her vital records, which aside from being black and white and carrying no stamp looked exactly like Obama’s long form.

    This was the one and only success on getting a long form BC that the birthers ever had.

    Miki Booth claimed she got a long form for her son, but then showed a copy of such low resolution that you could not read the issuing date, and then she claimed that she couldn’t get another as Obama had gotten to the DOH. In other words, total BS.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    No, not misleading at all. A special waiver is required to get a long form birth certificate in Hawaii.

    Assuming the FOIA route actually works (all we have is a comment by a reporter on TV), it would not result in a long form birth certificate, only a photocopy of the record, not certified and not on security paper. Any confusion results from not understanding what a birth certificate is, and I have several tutorial articles on that topic.

  67. avatar
    misha marinsky July 17, 2013 at 11:00 pm #

    Crustacean: IT’S THE FLOURIDE!!!

    We had an agreement. Thanks. NOT

  68. avatar
    3Fiddy5 July 18, 2013 at 4:03 am #

    Last night on an Obama eligibility blog, I suggested that Hawaii hospitals in the 60’s required all newborns to be circumcised.. And since Obama wasn’t circumcised, (which I don’t really know), he must have been born in Kenya.

    A couple of birthers actually took the bait..

    So I’m guilty of abusing the disabled in order to amuse myself. Shameful..

    The thought of them demanding the president prove the birth status of his “junk” is sometimes too funny to resist.

  69. avatar
    aarrgghh July 18, 2013 at 5:17 am #

    3Fiddy5: The thought of them demanding the president prove the birth status of his “junk” is sometimes too funny to resist.

    you’re right. i couldn’t resist.

  70. avatar
    bovril July 18, 2013 at 6:23 am #

    Falls right in line with Arizona’s initial Birfoon bill which would accept as one proof of NBC status the candidates circumcision certificate…….Not quite sure how that would work for the distaff candidates …….

  71. avatar
    Dave B. July 18, 2013 at 4:37 pm #

    “Seven folks are half-dead because of this. What’s in it?
    Nothing harmful, I assure you.
    What?
    Mostly water. Whiskey, a little pepper, oil of cloves, ginger root…
    What’s that?
    What’s what? Oh, that. It’s a dozen snake heads, to give it strength.”
    “Life contains a particle of risk…I’m not licked. I’m tarred and feathered, that’s all.”
    Allardyce T. Meriweather
    http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/l/little-big-man-script-transcript.html

    http://books.google.com/books?id=5moNOPzfUf8C&pg=PA316&lpg=PA316&dq=allardyce&source=bl&ots=gVyNA7fHUA&sig=tLLmazzdiwvcG3PlLTV-zkm2kw4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=v0_oUeDhMsjxiQLOr4GYCg&ved=0CFoQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=allardyce%20&f=false
    With thanks to Thomas Berger, Calder Willingham, Arthur Penn and Martin Balsam.

    Lupin: That said, I very strongly suspect that folks like Apuzzo and Zullo are not Asperger-type sufferers but a modern breed of snake oil salesmen, fully deserving of being tarred and feathered and taken out of town on a rail.

  72. avatar
    Dave B. July 18, 2013 at 4:40 pm #

    Next time you’re communicating with David, ask him whatever became of this:
    http://teapartyorg.ning.com/forum/topics/i-will-file-against-mitt-romney-if-he-is-nominated

    3Fiddy5: Got this reply from David Farrarr

  73. avatar
    Dave B. July 18, 2013 at 4:42 pm #

    Says the misleader, misleadingly.

    scott e: there is misleading on both sides, when the smoke clears away, we should have a better picture.

  74. avatar
    scott e July 18, 2013 at 7:53 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Doc,

    Here is a PolitiFact piece from August 2012 detailing all the events around Reid’s July 31st comments:

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/aug/06/harry-reid/harry-reid-says-anonymous-source-told-him-mitt-rom/

    He said it….on and off the Senate floor.

    jagoff…

  75. avatar
    Suranis July 18, 2013 at 10:07 pm #

    I thought the first part of that slangword started with an F and ended with a K

    scott e: jagoff…

  76. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 18, 2013 at 10:11 pm #

    scott e: jagoff…

    Hello?

  77. avatar
    scott e July 19, 2013 at 9:36 am #

    CarlOrcas: Hello?

    even when you guys are dead wrong, you think you are still right.

  78. avatar
    scott e July 19, 2013 at 9:38 am #

    3Fiddy5:
    Last night on an Obama eligibility blog, I suggested that Hawaii hospitals in the 60′s required all newborns to be circumcised.. And since Obama wasn’t circumcised, (which I don’t really know), he must have been born in Kenya.

    A couple of birthers actually took the bait..

    So I’m guilty of abusing the disabled in order to amuse myself.Shameful..

    The thought of them demanding thepresident prove the birth status of his “junk” issometimes too funny to resist.

    I have to admit that’s pretty funny…

  79. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater July 19, 2013 at 10:04 am #

    3Fiddy5: Last night on an Obama eligibility blog, I suggested that Hawaii hospitals in the 60′s required all newborns to be circumcised.. And since Obama wasn’t circumcised, (which I don’t really know), he must have been born in Kenya.A couple of birthers actually took the bait.. So I’m guilty of abusing the disabled in order to amuse myself. Shameful..The thought of them demanding the president prove the birth status of his “junk” is sometimes too funny to resist.

    You do know that’s how the Foreign student meme got started and the whole Bomford fake got passed around.

  80. avatar
    scott e July 19, 2013 at 10:31 am #

    CarlOrcas: Hello?

    it’s a Chicago thing.

    actually carl I give you high marks for stating the truth.

  81. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater July 19, 2013 at 11:20 am #

    scott e: it’s a Chicago thing. actually carl I give you high marks for stating the truth.

    Everything is a chicago thing apparently

  82. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 19, 2013 at 12:10 pm #

    scott e: even when you guys are dead wrong, you think you are still right.

    When did I ever say anything about Reid…..other than this post? Hello?

  83. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 19, 2013 at 12:38 pm #

    scott e: it’s a Chicago thing.

    Actually, scott, the Urban Dictionary says its a Pittsburgh “thing”.

    scott e: actually carl I give you high marks for stating the truth

    How kind of you.

  84. avatar
    Northland10 July 19, 2013 at 1:12 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: Everything is a chicago thing apparently

    My lunch was a Chicago thing.

  85. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 19, 2013 at 1:17 pm #

    Northland10: My lunch was a Chicago thing.

    Breathing is a “Chicago thing”.

  86. avatar
    scott e July 19, 2013 at 6:53 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: Everything is a chicago thing apparently

    well that raises an interesting point my good dr. K.
    how well are the liberals doing in Chicago for the last fifty years. Obama was a/the great “community organizer”.
    i’m so sure rahm will be the guy to land the five hundred mostly black on black murders/year plane at midway, that nobody else could.

  87. avatar
    scott e July 19, 2013 at 7:02 pm #

    CarlOrcas: When did I ever say anything about Reid…..other than this post? Hello?

    that post turned the tide carlorcas… by the way, some people on my side think the Xerox theory is a joke…

  88. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 19, 2013 at 10:56 pm #

    scott e: well that raises an interesting point my good dr. K.
    how well are the liberals doing in Chicago for the last fifty years. Obama was a/the great “community organizer”.
    i’m so sure rahm will be the guy to land the five hundred mostly black on black murders/year plane at midway, that nobody else could.

    What’s your point, scott?

    If you were the Mayor exactly what would you do to cut the number of muders?

  89. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 19, 2013 at 10:57 pm #

    scott e: that post turned the tide carlorcas… by the way, some people on my side think the Xerox theory is a joke…

    Your “side”? What is your “side”, scott?

  90. avatar
    Reality Check July 20, 2013 at 12:27 am #

    Scott E

    Did you happen to notice that Gallups interviewed Zullo today and they barely mentioned the CCP nonsense? Do you think they know something? Think Xerox.

  91. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 20, 2013 at 12:58 am #

    Reality Check:
    Scott E

    Did you happen to notice that Gallups interviewed Zullo today and they barely mentioned the CCP nonsense? Do you think they know something? Think Xerox.

    So…..out of curiosity (and a disturbing degree of masochism) I wonder why would Zullo be doing an interview if it weren’t to talk about the “investigation”? Hmm. Let me think.

  92. avatar
    Rickey July 20, 2013 at 4:18 am #

    scott e:
    i’m so sure rahm will be the guy to land the five hundred mostly black on black murders/year plane at midway, that nobody else could.

    Chicago doesn’t even rank as one of the top ten U.S. cities in terms of the crime rate.

    http://247wallst.com/special-report/2013/06/13/the-most-dangerous-cities-in-america-3/

  93. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG July 20, 2013 at 8:52 am #

    Northland10: My lunch was a Chicago thing.

    Lucky you!
    I’d love some good Czech food.

  94. avatar
    scott e July 20, 2013 at 12:21 pm #

    Rickey: Chicago doesn’t even rank as one of the top ten U.S. cities in terms of the crime rate.

    http://247wallst.com/special-report/2013/06/13/the-most-dangerous-cities-in-america-3/

    how about for black on black murders, that was kind of my point…

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/04/09/race-wars-part-1-the-shocking-data-on-black-on-black-crime/

  95. avatar
    scott e July 20, 2013 at 12:29 pm #

    Reality Check:
    Scott E

    Did you happen to notice that Gallups interviewed Zullo today and they barely mentioned the CCP nonsense? Do you think they know something? Think Xerox.

    it seems odd that this Xerox theory comes along after 2 1/2 years, and brought forth by the obots. but like everything else let’s vet them equally and objectively. if there are criminal elements, let’s all find out together.

    this is science. since the white house belongs to the American people, perhaps we have a right to know which copier our tax dollars paid for. and perhaps more to the point, the names of the people that the people pay/contribute their salaries to/for.

    congress can subpoena anyone in the building that day, except for one (maybe two with biden, I don’t know). executive privilege may come into play.

  96. avatar
    scott e July 20, 2013 at 12:32 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Your “side”? What is your “side”, scott?

    I am a birther, I thought you knew that carlorcas.

  97. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 20, 2013 at 1:20 pm #

    Science involves replicatable experiments. The Xerox theory is verified by replicatable experiments.

    Of course the Cold Case Posse and other birthers did replicatable experiments too, only their experiments proved nothing except that they couldn’t figure out how the White House PDF could arise through normal processes. The Obots did figure that out, thereby not only disproving the birther theories of forgery, but disproving the competence of the birther “experts.”

    Try to think rationally for a minute. The Cold Case Posse published a report by Garrett Pappit that was the centerpiece of its third press conference. That report relied on a number of experiments, claimed to be nearly exhaustive, that determined that PDF software NEVER, NEVER, NEVER created more than one monochrome layer. Pappit put himself forward as an expert. The Cold Case Posse put him forward as an expert. Now we know that a common office machine proves his thesis total and complete bunk.

    The Xerox experiments also show that Mara Zebest’s report that was the centerpiece of the first CCP press conference was also incompetent junk.

    And of course my research proved that the Race Code “research” presented by the Cold Case Posse was not only junk, but a lie.

    So, justify why you still have any confidence in the forgery theory or the Cold Case Posse.

    scott e: it seems odd that this Xerox theory comes along after 2 1/2 years, and brought forth by the obots. but like everything else let’s vet them equally and objectively. if there are criminal elements, let’s all find out together.

    this is science. since the white house belongs to the American people, perhaps we have a right to know which copier our tax dollars paid for. and perhaps more to the point, the names of the people that the people pay/contribute their salaries to/for.

  98. avatar
    Dave B. July 20, 2013 at 1:24 pm #

    Well, the people on your side haven’t demonstrated much aptitude when it come to thinking, have they, Scott? As examples, I give you R.C. Laity and Adrien Nash, who haven’t exactly been setting the woods on fire for the last couple of days here.

    scott e: by the way, some people on my side think the Xerox theory is a joke…

    scott e: CarlOrcas: Your “side”? What is your “side”, scott?

    I am a birther, I thought you knew that carlorcas.

  99. avatar
    Dave B. July 20, 2013 at 1:33 pm #

    Zullo did also prove that he has some rudimentary skill as a forger. I wonder how he came by that, anyway?

    Dr. Conspiracy: Of course the Cold Case Posse and other birthers did replicatable experiments too, only their experiments proved nothing except that they couldn’t figure out how the White House PDF could arise through normal processes.

  100. avatar
    Reality Check July 20, 2013 at 1:44 pm #

    You assume a bunch of people had been working to figure out all the details of the PDF. No one cared enough to bother to try. Folks in the reality based community were satisfied seeing the document and the Hawaii letter confirming they had provided it. It was obvious fairly quickly that the artifacts in the PDF could not be from human manipulation. They only made sense if they were a result of some compression algorithm

    GSGS in comments at John Woodman’s blog began reporting on his analysis the PDF file using some low level tools and that got NBC interested in building on his work. With some hard work and a little luck NBC figured out that the Xerox technology coupled with a trip through Preview could account for all artifacts in the PDF that have been touted as proof of forgery.

    Now a huge plate of crow has been served to Zebest, Gillar, Papit, and esp. Zullo. Let’s see if they are people of character and admit their misstatements.

    scott e: it seems odd that this Xerox theory comes along after 2 1/2 years, and brought forth by the obots. but like everything else let’s vet them equally and objectively. if there are criminal elements, let’s all find out together.

  101. avatar
    Reality Check July 20, 2013 at 1:51 pm #

    That was a rhetorical question BTW. I already know the answer. They will find a new fallback lie.

    Reality Check: Now a huge plate of crow has been served to Zebest, Gillar, Papit, and esp. Zullo. Let’s see if they are people of character and admit their misstatements.

  102. avatar
    Rickey July 20, 2013 at 2:22 pm #

    scott e: how about for black on black murders, that was kind of my point…

    You were trying to make a point? I’m sorry, but trying to discredit the President because he has a connection to Chicago isn’t a point. It’s a smear.

  103. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater July 20, 2013 at 2:38 pm #

    scott e: that post turned the tide carlorcas… by the way, some people on my side think the Xerox theory is a joke…

    Anyone actually reputable Scott? I’ve notice no one on your side has even attempted to test NBCs findings.

  104. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater July 20, 2013 at 2:40 pm #

    scott e: well that raises an interesting point my good dr. K.
    how well are the liberals doing in Chicago for the last fifty years. Obama was a/the great “community organizer”.
    i’m so sure rahm will be the guy to land the five hundred mostly black on black murders/year plane at midway, that nobody else could.

    It depends do you think everyone in Chicago is a liberal? How does that compare to other large cities? How do you account for the higher rape, spousal abuse and std rate in conservative conclaves? Or is this just another case of post hoc ergo propter hoc by Scotty

  105. avatar
    Suranis July 20, 2013 at 3:50 pm #

    You see President Obama is Black, so therefore he is a criminal and he hates other blacks. You see Scott isn’t a racist, he’s just using comparisons made from racist websites.

    And all because he cant deal with the fact NBC killed the forgery theory stone dead, and that Benghazi turned into a big pile of nothing, so he has to grasp at straws to try and annoy us.

    Remember whistle-blower Wednesday, whistle-blower Wednesday, Scott? *Dances*

    scott e: how about for black on black murders, that was kind of my point…

  106. avatar
    scott e July 20, 2013 at 5:08 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: Anyone actually reputable Scott?I’ve notice no one on your side has even attempted to test NBCs findings.

    pretty funny, a whole new explanation this far into it… let’s just see what happens dk

  107. avatar
    scott e July 20, 2013 at 5:11 pm #

    Rickey: You were trying to make a point? I’m sorry, but trying to discredit the President because he has a connection to Chicago isn’t a point. It’s a smear.

    only the right to inquiry, which under normal circumstances wouldn’t rile all of you up, that’s a huge part of it too. a lot of effort going to protect a guy who shouldn’t need any political protection at all. in keeping with honesty and transparency. just an opinion, probably not for you to worry about.

  108. avatar
    scott e July 20, 2013 at 5:13 pm #

    Reality Check:
    You assume a bunch of people had been working to figure out all the details of the PDF. No one cared enough to bother to try. Folks in the reality based community were satisfied seeing the document and the Hawaii letter confirming they had provided it. It was obvious fairly quickly that the artifacts in the PDF could not be from human manipulation. They only made sense if they were a result of some compression algorithm

    GSGS in comments at John Woodman’s blog began reporting on his analysis the PDF file using some low level tools and that got NBC interested in building on his work. With some hard work and a little luck NBC figured out that the Xerox technology coupled with a trip through Preview could account for all artifacts in the PDF that have been touted as proof of forgery.

    Now a huge plate of crow has been served to Zebest, Gillar, Papit, and esp. Zullo. Let’s see if they are people of character and admit their misstatements.

    that’s right, let’s see.

  109. avatar
    Northland10 July 20, 2013 at 6:51 pm #

    scott e: since the white house belongs to the American people, perhaps we have a right to know which copier our tax dollars paid for. and perhaps more to the point, the names of the people that the people pay/contribute their salaries to/for.

    Here you go:

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/disclosures/annual-records/2013

    You’re welcome

  110. avatar
    Jim July 20, 2013 at 7:37 pm #

    scott e: it seems odd that this Xerox theory comes along after 2 1/2 years, and brought forth by the obots. but like everything else let’s vet them equally and objectively. if there are criminal elements, let’s all find out together.

    Let’s return to the reality-based world scott. Most of the people there think you’re a bunch of idiots spouting off with nothing but your stupidity. Computer experts didn’t even bother with the analysis of the LFBC online because it was a joke, and the accusations about Hawaii with absolutely no proof they’ve done anything wrong is considered not even worth their time. The reason it took 2 1/2 years is quite simply because NOBODY BELIEVES THE BIRTHER BS. It would have never been done if it wasn’t for the anti-birthers doing it for personal entertainment and the satisfaction of proving birthers wrong…again. Get away from birther and anti-birther sites and you’ll find this isn’t even in the minds of most americans. As it should be because…BIRTHERS GOT NOTHING BUT THEIR HATRED AND BIGOTRY!!!

  111. avatar
    Rickey July 20, 2013 at 7:42 pm #

    scott e: just an opinion, probably not for you to worry about.

    You’re right about one thing – I don’t worry about your opinions.

  112. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater July 20, 2013 at 8:41 pm #

    scott e: pretty funny, a whole new explanation this far into it… let’s just see what happens dk

    Whats there to see? You guys lost this back in 2008. How is it a new explanation? It supports the claim all along that this was mixed raster compression and the supposed anomolies were caused by the machine itself. How many explanations have birthers gone through with their claims scotty?

  113. avatar
    scott e July 21, 2013 at 9:53 am #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: Whats there to see?You guys lost this back in 2008.How is it a new explanation?It supports the claim all along that this was mixed raster compression and the supposed anomolies were caused by the machine itself.How many explanations have birthers gone through with their claims scotty?

    the outcome of the election is irrelevant dr. Nixon established that. I loved those days of senator Sam Ervin…

    I think we’re in for a new epic Washington Theater Production.

    what’s there to see ? we just don’t know yet, but I have a theory.

  114. avatar
    scott e July 21, 2013 at 9:58 am #

    Rickey:
    From the Waiting for Zullo thread, which is now closed to comments:

    Where in that interview did Alinsky say anything about meeting Capone?

    PLAYBOY: What did Capone have to say about that?

    ALINSKY: Well, my reception was pretty chilly at first…

    plus harry reid confirmed it from the senate floor.

    and bill ayers never met Obama, michelle never heard of the weather underground.. you get the drift.

  115. avatar
    scott e July 21, 2013 at 10:05 am #

    Northland10: Here you go:

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/disclosures/annual-records/2013

    You’re welcome

    thank you.. I like this part… “Consistent with President Obama’s commitment to transparency”,

  116. avatar
    scott e July 21, 2013 at 10:20 am #

    the alinsky connection is fascinating to me. doc I wish you would do an essay, perhaps to clear up some of the misconceptions.

    http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2314

    “Alinsky studied criminology as a graduate student at the University of Chicago, during which time he became friendly with Al Capone and his mobsters”….

    *********** also

    Hillary would maintain her allegiance to Alinsky’s teachings throughout her adult life. According to a March 2007 Washington Post report:

    “As first lady, Clinton occasionally lent her name to projects endorsed by the Industrial Areas Foundation (IAF), the Alinsky group that had offered her a job in 1968. She raised money and attended two events organized by the Washington Interfaith Network, an IAF affiliate.”
    Ultimately, Hillary’s investigation of Alinsky’s methods and ideals led her to conclude that the Lyndon Johnson-era federal antipoverty programs did not go far enough in redistributing wealth among the American people, and did not give sufficient power to the poor.

    When Hillary graduated from Wellesley in 1969, she was offered a job with Alinsky’s new training institute in Chicago. She opted instead to enroll at Yale Law School.

    Unlike Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama never personally met Saul Alinsky.

    i’m not saying this is a bad thing at all, in fact I would love to read miss Hillary’s thesis.

  117. avatar
    Rickey July 21, 2013 at 12:27 pm #

    scott e: PLAYBOY: What did Capone have to say about that?

    ALINSKY: Well, my reception was pretty chilly at first…

    And then he goes on to elaborate that the chilly reception was from Capone underlings.

  118. avatar
    Rickey July 21, 2013 at 12:37 pm #

    scott e:
    the alinsky connection is fascinating to me. doc I wish you would do an essay, perhaps to clear up some of the misconceptions.

    “Alinsky studied criminology as a graduate student at the University of Chicago, during which time he became friendly with Al Capone and his mobsters”….

    Just like you, the writer provides no source for the claim that Alinsky was friendly with Capone.

    How about providing us with evidence that Alinsky even met Capone?

  119. avatar
    scott e July 21, 2013 at 1:32 pm #

    Rickey: Just like you, the writer provides no source for the claim that Alinsky was friendly with Capone.

    How about providing us with evidence that Alinsky even met Capone?

    how bout you prove he didn’t, ask an expert… like Hillary. it appears as though he sought out the capone gang, introduced himself and hung out to study mob crime. the playboy interview could be made up, I just don’t know, it’s not a deal breaker for me. maybe he never met the guy at all, or the capone gang, I’ve shown you what I read from the internet. if you are positive they never met, i’m ok with that, I don’t mind being wrong.

  120. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater July 21, 2013 at 1:54 pm #

    scott e: PLAYBOY: What did Capone have to say about that?

    ALINSKY: Well, my reception was pretty chilly at first…

    plus harry reid confirmed it from the senate floor.

    and bill ayers never met Obama, michelle never heard of the weather underground.. you get the drift.

    OMG Scott are you really this stupid? Notice nowhere in the answer did he say he ever met with Capone. See this is the problem birthers have they make inferences where there is none because they lack basic reading comprehension skills.

  121. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater July 21, 2013 at 1:55 pm #

    scott e: the outcome of the election is irrelevant dr. Nixon established that. I loved those days of senator Sam Ervin…

    I think we’re in for a new epic Washington Theater Production.

    what’s there to see ? we just don’t know yet, but I have a theory.

    What does Obama have anything to do with Nixon? Again you change the subject. BTW I said you lost back in 2008 when Obama showed the short form since then it’s been nothing but whining on your end. Yes you have a theory one that you’ve never been able to prove.

  122. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 21, 2013 at 4:21 pm #

    This subject is off topic for this blog. End it.

    scott e: how bout you prove he didn’t, ask an expert… like Hillary. it appears as though he sought out the capone gang, introduced himself and hung out to study mob crime. the playboy interview could be made up, I just don’t know, it’s not a deal breaker for me. maybe he never met the guy at all, or the capone gang, I’ve shown you what I read from the internet. if you are positive they never met, i’m ok with that, I don’t mind being wrong.

  123. avatar
    Rickey July 21, 2013 at 4:31 pm #

    scott e: how bout you prove he didn’t, ask an expert… like Hillary. it appears as though he sought out the capone gang, introduced himself and hung out to study mob crime.

    Typical birther strategy, shifting the burden of truth. You made the claim that Alinsky and Capone were friends, so why don’t you just admit that you don’t have any proof?

    Alinsky did seek out the Capone gang and got as much information as he could from then. That doesn’t even being to suggest that he and Capone were friendly.

  124. avatar
    Suranis July 21, 2013 at 4:36 pm #

    Scotte

    scott e: PLAYBOY: What did Capone have to say about that?

    ALINSKY: Well, my reception was pretty chilly at first…

    Scott, You know I blew that shit apart months ago, when you tried to use it to distract from your humiliation on WHISTLE-BLOWER WEDNESDAY. So you are deliberately saying something you know is a lie. And which we can prove you know is a lie. That’s pathetic.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/270883-benghazi-eligible-worthy-realtime-conspiracy-theorieness-post1062613365.html#post1062613365

    plus harry reid confirmed it from the senate floor.

    Pathetic isn’t even the word anymore.

    and bill ayers never met Obama,

    Is that a pathetic attempt to “make us admit Obama knew Bill Ayers?” LOL

    michelle never heard of the weather underground.. you get the drift.

    Yep, that you’re a pathetic liar and you are saying stuff you know isn’t true.

  125. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater July 21, 2013 at 6:22 pm #

    Rickey: Typical birther strategy, shifting the burden of truth. You made the claim that Alinsky and Capone were friends, so why don’t you just admit that you don’t have any proof?

    Alinsky did seek out the Capone gang and got as much information as he could from then. That doesn’t even being to suggest that he and Capone were friendly.

    Yep time and again when Scott knows he’s full of crap he tries to shift the burden. He does this repeatedly on politicalforum and then like typical birthers he’ll leave for the day and come back with amnesia.

  126. avatar
    The Magic M July 22, 2013 at 5:30 am #

    scott e: by the way, some people on my side think the Xerox theory is a joke…

    Don’t they rather think Xerox is “in on it” and modified all Workcentre 7535 installations in the country world universe during the last 2 20 50 years to cover up the actual forgery?

  127. avatar
    JD Reed July 22, 2013 at 8:33 am #

    Scott E: “I don’t mind being wrong.”

    This is great, as you are wrong almost all the time.

  128. avatar
    scott e July 22, 2013 at 9:48 am #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: What does Obama have anything to do with Nixon?Again you change the subject.BTW I said you lost back in 2008 when Obama showed the short form since then it’s been nothing but whining on your end.Yes you have a theory one that you’ve never been able to prove.

    why did they release the long form ?

  129. avatar
    Suranis July 22, 2013 at 12:05 pm #

    Yeah, we know.

    scott e: I dont have any other stupid distractions so I’m going to jump to another recycled topic without even acknowledging that I have been proven wrong again. So here we go

    why did they release the long form ?

  130. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 22, 2013 at 1:58 pm #

    scott e: why did they release the long form ?

    Remember….the economy was still a little dicey then so I suspect it was a make work project for birthers….using lots of electricity, bigger disks, new software, etc. Interesting how tricky those Marxists are, huh?

  131. avatar
    Reality Check July 22, 2013 at 2:09 pm #

    I like that new theory!

    Here is a bit of history. We forget so quickly. In April 2011 Donald Trump was tied in the polls with Mike Huckabee at 16% approval in a large field of potential Republican candidates for the 2012 nomination. So the leading candidate Trump was out Birthing. Trump was pushing the story almost daily. It was becoming a distraction in the news. Obama decided to put an end to it once and for all. In doing so he just happened to also put an end to Trump ever being taken seriously as a candidate for even dogcatcher again.

    CarlOrcas: Remember….the economy was still a little dicey then so I suspect it was a make work project for birthers….using lots of electricity, bigger disks, new software, etc. Interesting how tricky those Marxists are, huh?

  132. avatar
    Jim July 22, 2013 at 2:46 pm #

    Scott E: “I don’t mind being wrong.”

    And therein lies your problem…people who want to be right learn, people who don’t care open themselves up to scams.

  133. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater July 22, 2013 at 3:11 pm #

    scott e: why did they release the long form ?

    Probably because they foolishly believed birthers would accept reality when faced with the overwhelming evidence. It’s not the first time a politician has underestimated conspiracy theorists. Most of the more sane and rational birthers were satisfied by the long form. Also after 2 years of the birthers saying if only he would release the long form all this would go away maybe people on his team took birthers at their word.

    You’ve proven yourselves to be untrustworthy and worthy of contempt.

  134. avatar
    scott e July 22, 2013 at 3:52 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: Probably because they foolishly believed birthers would accept reality when faced with the overwhelming evidence.It’s not the first time a politician has underestimated conspiracy theorists.Most of the more sane and rational birthers were satisfied by the long form.Also after 2 years of the birthers saying if only he would release the long form all this would go away maybe people on his team took birthers at their word.

    You’ve proven yourselves to be untrustworthy and worthy of contempt.

    i’d be worried if I wasn’t, in this crowd, goes with the territory.

  135. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 22, 2013 at 4:03 pm #

    Reality Check: I like that new theory!

    Well….I suspect there’s more to it. Trump’s tour of Birtherstan was, in fact, a devilishly clever diversion to cover up the fact that he is, in truth, Obama’s father. I suspect if you check airline passenger lists from late 1960 you will find the 14 year old Trump went to Hawaii on vacation to get away from the cold northeast winter. Isn’t that where all the rich kids went to surf and vacation?

    Also notice that since then there has not been a word in the media about Trump being Obama’s father.

    Now….prove me wrong buckaroo!

  136. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 22, 2013 at 4:06 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: You’ve proven yourselves to be untrustworthy and worthy of contempt.

    Ridicule. Don’t forget ridicule. At this point it’s more fun that bruising your forehead against a keyboard.

  137. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater July 22, 2013 at 6:13 pm #

    scott e: i’d be worried if I wasn’t, in this crowd, goes with the territory.

    Yes it goes with being a crazy person scott. That’s the territory you’re in when you’re a birther.

  138. avatar
    scott e July 22, 2013 at 7:28 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: Yes it goes with being a crazy person scott.That’s the territory you’re in when you’re a birther.

    glass houses doctor..

  139. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 22, 2013 at 7:40 pm #

    scott e: glass houses doctor..

    You need to cap that kind of response off with “Oh, yeah…….your mother wears combat boots!”

    And, btw, when will you be getting to all your unanswered questions?

  140. avatar
    Rickey July 23, 2013 at 1:22 am #

    CarlOrcas:

    And, btw, when will you be getting to all your unanswered questions?

    I’m still waiting for Scott to ask his buddy Zullo what specific statute Zullo believes has been broken if indeed the PDF is a forgery. The shouldn’t be a difficult question to answer for someone who claims that it is a “proven criminal forgery.”

  141. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 23, 2013 at 2:13 am #

    Rickey: I’m still waiting for Scott to ask his buddy Zullo what specific statute Zullo believes has been broken if indeed the PDF is a forgery. The shouldn’t be a difficult question to answer for someone who claims that it is a “proven criminal forgery.”

    Any day now.

  142. avatar
    The Magic M July 23, 2013 at 4:14 am #

    CarlOrcas: Trump’s tour of Birtherstan was, in fact, a devilishly clever diversion to cover up the fact that he is, in truth, Obama’s father.

    This also explains why he withdrew his lawsuit against Bill Maher. Not only was he desperate to prevent the court from ruling his father was an orangutan, he also knew from his investigators that Maher has Obama’s real BC (which he stole from the Buckingham Palace archives during his short fling with the Queen).

  143. avatar
    Monkey Boy July 23, 2013 at 9:18 am #

    scott e: I don’t mind being wrong.

    That much is readily apparent.

  144. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater July 23, 2013 at 9:27 am #

    scott e: glass houses doctor..

    Sorry to disappoint you Scotty my house is made of stone so you won’t be blowing anything down. But hey Scotty can you give us an ETA of when you will be getting to the unanswered questions you’ve been asked by other commenters here?

  145. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 23, 2013 at 10:07 am #

    The Magic M: This also explains why he withdrew his lawsuit against Bill Maher. Not only was he desperate to prevent the court from ruling his father was an orangutan, he also knew from his investigators that Maher has Obama’s real BC (which he stole from the Buckingham Palace archives during his short fling with the Queen).

    Interesting how clear these things become once you open up your mind to the real possibilities.

  146. avatar
    scott e July 23, 2013 at 1:05 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: Sorry to disappoint you Scotty my house is made of stone so you won’t be blowing anything down.But hey Scotty can you give us an ETA of when you will be getting to the unanswered questions you’ve been asked by other commenters here?

    well,… i’m thinking about going back to school in the fall. and I actually am building my new recording studio mostly of glass, but it’s for music not politics.

    I went to film school for a couple of years in illinois, the university of Oregon for a year, and I did a semester at UConn, all about twenty years ago,

    i’d like to finish my degree, but this time split the discipline political science/fine arts/ philosophy.

    I’ve answered a lot of questions here, you should offer some credit for that. I think you don’t like the way I argue. why else would I be here if it wasn’t to disagree. why would you be so aggressive, if you were right everytime.

    scroll through the threads, you will see I have answered, other readers will see that too. (I hope)

    I cannot give you a definitive timeline on what I simply do not, or could not know

  147. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater July 23, 2013 at 3:54 pm #

    scott e: I went to film school for a couple of years in illinois, the university of Oregon for a year, and I did a semester at UConn, all about twenty years ago,

    You ever actually finish anything in your life scott? Seems like you jumped around a bit with absolutely no direction.

    scott e: I’ve answered a lot of questions here, you should offer some credit for that. I think you don’t like the way I argue. why else would I be here if it wasn’t to disagree. why would you be so aggressive, if you were right everytime.

    If by a lot you mean 1 or 2 out of about 40 since you’ve started posting here then yeah if that’s your metric it’s “a lot”. No I like the way you argue, because you don’t actually argue. You change the subject, misdirect and throw out non-sequiturs. Typical birther fare, you know Scott you could actually make it a challenge for us? Why would we be so aggressive? Perhaps you’re dealing with type A personalities while you yourself are a type B.

    On your tombstone is going to be written post hoc ergo propter hoc.

  148. avatar
    scott e July 23, 2013 at 4:51 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: You ever actually finish anything in your life scott?Seems like you jumped around a bit with absolutely no direction.

    If by a lot you mean 1 or 2 out of about 40 since you’ve started posting here then yeah if that’s your metric it’s “a lot”.No I like the way you argue, because you don’t actually argue.You change the subject, misdirect and throw out non-sequiturs.Typical birther fare, you know Scott you could actually make it a challenge for us?Why would we be so aggressive?Perhaps you’re dealing with type A personalities while you yourself are a type B.

    On your tombstone is going to be written post hoc ergo propter hoc.

    i’d prefer to be cremated.

    check the transcript governor.

    don’t ask me twenty questions from ten different people. for that you have go to the pf.

  149. avatar
    Jim July 23, 2013 at 4:52 pm #

    scott e: I went to film school for a couple of years in illinois,

    Which School? I grew up on the UofI campus.

  150. avatar
    Majority Will July 23, 2013 at 5:05 pm #

    Jim: Which School?I grew up on the UofI campus.

    It was probably the training course for Walgreens 1 Hour Photo. And then after 2 years of asking the exact same questions over and over and over again, he still couldn’t grasp the basics.

  151. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater July 23, 2013 at 5:36 pm #

    scott e: i’d prefer to be cremated.check the transcript governor.don’t ask me twenty questions from ten different people. for that you have go to the pf.

    I have checked the transcript which is why I’m not the only one noticing your avoidance of direct questions. You did the same thing over at political forum. Like other birthers you avoid direct questions. Take for instance the question I asked you in the previous response.

  152. avatar
    Majority Will July 23, 2013 at 8:25 pm #

    “i’d prefer to be cremated”

    Should someone bother telling him that someone does that for you after you die?

  153. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 23, 2013 at 8:32 pm #

    Majority Will:
    “i’d prefer to be cremated”

    Should someone bother telling him that someone does that for you after you die?

    I was going to ask him “Now?” or “Later?” but thought better of it.

  154. avatar
    Majority Will July 23, 2013 at 8:46 pm #

    CarlOrcas: I was going to ask him “Now?” or “Later?” but thought better of it.

    Would he know the difference? Not bloody likely.

  155. avatar
    Keith July 23, 2013 at 10:08 pm #

    scott e: well,… i’m thinking about going back to school in the fall. and I actually am building my new recording studio mostly of glass, but it’s for music not politics.

    Crappy acoustics. You’ll just spend more money and waste more time trying to fix that.

    Plan ahead, and think about what you are doing. Then do it once. The right way.

    Yeah, I know… thinking about what you are doing is an extraordinarily foreign experience for you.

  156. avatar
    misha marinsky July 24, 2013 at 1:09 am #

    scott e: I actually am building my new recording studio mostly of glass, but it’s for an echo chamber

    FIFY

  157. avatar
    scott e July 24, 2013 at 10:08 am #

    misha marinsky: FIFY

    scott e: I actually am building my new recording studio mostly of glass, but it’s for an echo chamber.

    you hanging out with surannis now ?? lol

    I think you guys mean “isolation booth”, not “echo chamber”.. that’s cool.

  158. avatar
    scott e July 24, 2013 at 10:16 am #

    Jim: Which School?I grew up on the UofI campus.

    SIU Carbondale. but I looked at champaign/urbana, I didn’t have the grades. I smoked weed and drank beer and talked to a lot of girls in high school.

    films were too expensive to make when I got to 16mm. then I started playing music and making lots of money. it was no fun going to class, because I was playing music and making money.

    I tried again at Colorado boulder, Oregon and UConn.

    I have finished some things remarkably well, but you are right others, like school, not so much. I had smart parents and I was in a terrific school district. I was only a good student for occasional years. how bout you ?

  159. avatar
    scott e July 24, 2013 at 10:19 am #

    Majority Will: It was probably the training course for Walgreens 1 Hour Photo. And then after 2 years of asking the exact same questions over and over and over again, he still couldn’t grasp the basics.

    that’s ok wills.

  160. avatar
    scott e July 24, 2013 at 10:20 am #

    Majority Will:
    “i’d prefer to be cremated”

    Should someone bother telling him that someone does that for you after you die?

    when bob hope was 99 someone asked him where he wanted to be buried, he said “surprise me”.

  161. avatar
    scott e July 24, 2013 at 10:22 am #

    Keith: Crappy acoustics. You’ll just spend more money and waste more time trying to fix that.

    Plan ahead, and think about what you are doing. Then do it once. The right way.

    Yeah, I know… thinking about what you are doing is an extraordinarily foreign experience for you.

    thank for the advice. I helped build a studio for phish, so I should be ok.

  162. avatar
    Majority Will July 24, 2013 at 10:52 am #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: Yep time and again when Scott knows he’s full of crap he tries to shift the burden. He does this repeatedly on politicalforum and then like typical birthers he’ll leave for the day and come back with amnesia.

    Yep.

    It seems that so many birthers might be pathological liars to bolster fragile egos, irrational fear issues and paranoid delusions.

  163. avatar
    Suranis July 24, 2013 at 12:14 pm #

    Oh for fuck sake. now this dipshit is “Making lots of money” by being a rock star. LOL Statisticly less than 1% of people make money making music, so that chances of this guy being a rock star are nil, especially if he knows so little about acoustics that he would claim to be making a recording studio out of glass.

    This reminds me of the time on TPM that David Farrar was gloating to everyone about how rich he was and the trips he was taking on his yacht. This went on till someone (me) basically accused him of talking like he had never been on a boat in his life, and someone else said that he actually had a boat on the same dock as David was claiming his was at, and he would be over next weekend, and which Berth was it? Suddenly David forgot all about his wonderful Yacht and never mentioned it again.

    Its not just lying about the president to bring him down with these people. They have to lie about themselves to raise themselves up and put everyone else down.

    scott e:
    films were too expensive to make when I got to 16mm. then I started playing music and making lots of money. it was no fun going to class, because I was playing music and making money.

  164. avatar
    Dave B. July 24, 2013 at 4:32 pm #

    It’s the most expensive hobby I’ve ever had.

    Suranis: Statisticly less than 1% of people make money making music, so that chances of this guy being a rock star are nil, especially if he knows so little about acoustics that he would claim to be making a recording studio out of glass.

  165. avatar
    Majority Will July 24, 2013 at 5:04 pm #

    Suranis: Statisticly less than 1% of people make money making music, so that chances of this guy being a rock star are nil, especially if he knows so little about acoustics that he would claim to be making a recording studio out of glass.

    To put it in perspective, $100 could be “lots of money” to a beer swilling pothead who knows a few barre chords and played a keg party once out of a friend’s garage.

  166. avatar
    Crustacean July 24, 2013 at 5:36 pm #

    No, I’m pretty sure Misha meant “echo chamber,” just the way he wrote it.

    scott e: I think you guys mean “isolation booth”, not “echo chamber”.. that’s cool

  167. avatar
    Majority Will July 24, 2013 at 5:57 pm #

    Crustacean:
    No, I’m pretty sure Misha meant “echo chamber,” just the way he wrote it.

    He doesn’t know what that means which is not exactly surprising.

  168. avatar
    Northland10 July 24, 2013 at 7:23 pm #

    Suranis:
    Statisticly less than 1% of people make money making music, so that chances of this guy being a rock star are nil, especially if he knows so little about acoustics that he would claim to be making a recording studio out of glass.

    Cool, I’m a 1 percenter. Unfortunately, it’s not a living’s worth of money. There’s not many places where there are screaming girls shoving money up the organist’s cassock.

  169. avatar
    misha marinsky July 24, 2013 at 7:29 pm #

    Crustacean: No, I’m pretty sure Misha meant “echo chamber,” just the way he wrote it.

    Majority Will: He doesn’t know what that means which is not exactly surprising.

    echo chamber n. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/echo+chamber

    A room or enclosure with acoustically reflective walls used in broadcasting and recording to produce echoes or similar sound effects.

    My specialty is optics and photography. I do know recording studios have acoustic non-reflective walls.

  170. avatar
    misha marinsky July 24, 2013 at 7:36 pm #

    Northland10: There’s not many places where there are screaming girls shoving money up the organist’s cassock.

    Only if you’re Steve Winwood.

  171. avatar
    Keith July 24, 2013 at 10:57 pm #

    scott e: thank for the advice. I helped build a studio for phish, so I should be ok.

    Oh, so that’s what the problem is with their studio albums. I always wondered about that.

  172. avatar
    The Magic M July 25, 2013 at 3:52 am #

    Northland10: There’s not many places where there are screaming girls shoving money up the organist’s cassock.

    I once sneaked the riff from “Jump” and the intro to “Light my fire” into an organ concert at church. But even my school mate who played 5 instruments and won the national contest “Jugend musiziert” (“Youth playing instruments”) on 3 of them never made a career in music. A former girlfriend of mine became a known opera singer, though.

  173. avatar
    Majority Will July 25, 2013 at 9:25 am #

    misha marinsky:
    echo chamber n. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/echo+chamber

    A room or enclosure with acoustically reflective walls used in broadcasting and recording to produce echoes or similar sound effects.

    My specialty is optics and photography. I do know recording studios have acoustic non-reflective walls.

    But the birthers hunker down in the other echo chambers.

    echo chamber

    An insular communication space where everyone agrees with the information and no outside input is allowed.

    “The broadcast is just another echo chamber for self serving interests.”

    (Urban Dictionary)

    Like ORYR, Taitz, Apuzzo, etc.

  174. avatar
    scott e July 26, 2013 at 11:17 am #

    Keith: Oh, so that’s what the problem is with their studio albums. I always wondered about that.

    just one studio, for their second record, lawnboy.
    I was never a producer for those guys. looking back I wish I was though.

  175. avatar
    scott e July 26, 2013 at 11:21 am #

    The Magic M: I once sneaked the riff from “Jump” and the intro to “Light my fire” into an organ concert at church. But even my school mate who played 5 instruments and won the national contest “Jugend musiziert” (“Youth playing instruments”) on 3 of them never made a career in music. A former girlfriend of mine became a known opera singer, though.

    I love that. one of my dad’s and my favorite things was the marx brothers hijacking, take me out to the ballgame from the conductor and orchestra. awesome.

    listen there is a squre here somewhere where I invited someone to ask their best top question. it escapes me where that post is, so i’ll be back. this thing where people say I don’t answer questions can be easily addressed. remember there is only one of me, many of you.