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New birther web site demonstrates irrefutable evidence of copying

It’s not approximate; it’s exact.

The domain was registered early in 2014, but I only became aware it’s existence today. The site is a birther site called “WOBC2.com.” It prominently promotes the Sheriff’s Kit, a collection of videos from former sheriff Joe Arpaio’s Cold Case Posse that purport to show proof that Obama’s birth certificate is a forgery. The site’s icon is IIRC the same one that appeared on the now-defunct Cold Case Posse website that comes from the Joomla content management system; however to my mildly experienced eye, the site appears to be hand-coded rather than content managed. The author’s name in the HTML source is “Bill.”

The prominent topic of the site is the most recent offering from former (oh, I love typing that word) sheriff Joe Arpaio and Mike Zullo. Videos and interviews are featured. As we all know, the centerpiece of Zullo’s claim is that 9 aspects of Obama’s birth certificate are identical to a certificate from another Hawaiian born the same month. The degree of similarity asserted by Zullo has been challenged by me and in more detail by others; however, on WOBC2 site I found new evidence of similarity, evidence that is not easily dismissed.

Upon examination, the WOBC2 web site has a background image of green basket weave security paper. I downloaded the file, BirthCertificate.jpg, from his site and present the copy here:

BirthCertificate

That image looks remarkably similar to another that appears here on my web site. That file is named BasketWeave2.jpg and appears below:

BirthCertificate

Lest anyone think that I am manufacturing evidence, I have made each image link to a copy of it at the Wayback Machine, mine way back in 2012.

One might argue that these are visually similar because they were made for the same purpose, but it’s more than that. Here are the results of running a cryptographic hash on the two files:

File name: C:\temp\BasketWeave2.jpg
File size: 3556 bytes
CRC16: E861
CRC32: EC03DCAD
MD2: 76FA8AFA7F5A97DC48B2BAF5B1CFF299
MD4: 2442D9CD6B0C4B4164EE9051831CC4EA
MD5: F5CEAC402F3EAA2751F7810C40F5A8EF
SHA-1: 3CF7706D3A014315DE0776EA1EA31C68B862CDC0

 

File name: C:\temp\BirthCertificate.jpg
File size: 3556 bytes
CRC16: E861
CRC32: EC03DCAD
MD2: 76FA8AFA7F5A97DC48B2BAF5B1CFF299
MD4: 2442D9CD6B0C4B4164EE9051831CC4EA
MD5: F5CEAC402F3EAA2751F7810C40F5A8EF
SHA-1: 3CF7706D3A014315DE0776EA1EA31C68B862CDC0

 

You can see that the files themselves are identical. This test not only shows that the image is identical, but all internal markers, signs and tables are identical, proving that they were created by the same software libraries.

My file was created by taking a screen shot of the White House short form birth certificate (it was done before Obama released the long form) and cropping it by hand using a software program called PhotoImpact.

I confidently conclude that WOBC2 is not an authentic original long-form web site because a part of it was indisputably copied either from this web site or from another source that got it here.

Update: The original version of this article “speculated” that the site was a new version of Mike Volin’s “Where’s Obama’s Birth Certificate.” Volin says that the site is not his.

Update 2: The plot thickens

I sent Mike Volin a brief apology for my earlier speculation, and I got a reply stating that WOBC2.com is not his site, and that he doesn’t have access to it. I take him at his word on this.

I looked a little more closely at the sites and found these at the bottom:

imageimage

That’s the one from Volin’s site on the right. Now here’s the amazing fact, a search of “Kellyville Productions” (plural) on Google returns no other web sites except these two. It looks like there’s more copying out there than I first thought. WOBC2 links to Volin’s Blog Talk radio page, by the way.

In addition to the web site, there is an @WOBC2dotCom” Twitter account. a Google+ profile, with these folks in his circle:

  • Kelly Deysher
  • Ed Sunderland
  • Barry Soetoro
  • Mona Alexis Pressley
  • Mike Macoy

and an Intense Debate profile with no comments (and no matching email address).

,

58 Responses to New birther web site demonstrates irrefutable evidence of copying

  1. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 10, 2017 at 3:10 pm #

    For those wondering why there are so many new articles, the answer is that I’m snowed in. Literally the snowfall was Friday and Saturday, and the roads are clear where I am, but all the events I had scheduled had been cancelled and I don’t have much else to do.

  2. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG. January 10, 2017 at 4:26 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    For those wondering why there are so many new articles, the answer is that I’m snowed in. Literally the snowfall was Friday and Saturday, and the roads are clear where I am, but all the events I had scheduled had been cancelled and I don’t have much else to do.

    That’s when I’ll reach for my Steam backlog.

  3. avatar
    Pete January 10, 2017 at 5:03 pm #

    Bazzards stole yer image!!!

  4. avatar
    Reality Check January 10, 2017 at 5:05 pm #

    So you are saying Mike Volin’s site is blatant forgery?

  5. avatar
    Sam the Centipede January 10, 2017 at 10:10 pm #

    Reality Check:
    So you are saying Mike Volin’s site is blatant forgery?

    Oh RC, you have missed the point! Doc. C. has outed himself! Any birther could work it out!

    Thd two websites use the same image file. That image file we know to be from Doc. C. How is.it that Mike Volin has access to Doc. C.’s file when we know Doc. C. is very careful about the security of his computers? There is only one possible explanation:

    Mike Volin IS Doctor Conspiracy!!!1!1!

    Doc. C. claims to be snowed in and that’s why he is posting so much. Hah! Any fool can see that this is the prelude to Volin killing off his now useless fake persona as Doc. C. in some implausible snow-related accident.

  6. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 11, 2017 at 12:35 am #

    It’s a much a forgery as Obama’s birth certificate.

    Reality Check:
    So you are saying Mike Volin’s site is blatant forgery?

  7. avatar
    Nancy Owens, The Obama Forger January 11, 2017 at 3:23 am #

    😆

    I know Mike Volin’s mind to a certain degree as well as Doc’s via this website. They are certainly not the same.

    http://iforgedobamasbirthcertificates.weebly.com/

    Sam the Centipede: Steam

  8. avatar
    trader jack January 11, 2017 at 3:25 am #

    Of course they are the same, HDOH printed the basket weave on their XEROX at the same time they created the copies.

    there you go, solved.

  9. avatar
    Thomas Brown January 11, 2017 at 6:50 am #

    Of course they are the same. And “Nancy Ruth Owens” is actually Pee Wee Herman.

  10. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 11, 2017 at 7:44 am #

    I believe that both Orly Taitz and Mario Apuzzo adopted images from this site as well.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2014/03/cropped-by-doc/

  11. avatar
    Sam the Centipede January 11, 2017 at 9:28 am #

    Nancy Owens, The Obama Forger:

    I know Mike Volin’s mind to a certain degree as well as Doc’s via this website. They are certainly not the same.

    http://iforgedobamasbirthcertificates.weebly.com/

    Oh poor Nancy, that’s the beauty of it! You’re not thinking like the conspiracy theorist and fantasist that we know you to be!

    We know Mike Volin is brilliant because of his wonderful exposé of the forged birth certificate, finding evidence that was invisible to everybody else, and imperceptible in any forensic analysis and apparently contradicted by facts in the public domain. With his expertise, Mike Volin created evidence out of nothing.

    For such a talented birther and patriot, it was a trivial task to create a fake personality such as the blogger Doc.C., including hiring crisis actors to pretend to be Doc. C. at meet-ups of the Fogbow conspiratariat.

    Volin then used the Obama Conspiracy Theories blog to draw attention to the wonderful evidence he had created and his Sheriff’s Kits, which have achieved so much. He reasoned that nobody would be persuaded by Doc. C.’s point by point refutation of every single aspect of the forgery theory. It would only show how desperate the Obots were.

    Want more evidence? Mike Volin signalled that he intended to withdraw his Doc. C. persona with the feeble explanation that the blog would close shortly after Mr. Obama left the White House.

    Any fool could understand that. I am amazed that you didn’t.

  12. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 11, 2017 at 9:33 am #

    The background of this site is not a big image of security paper, but just the tiny bit tiled by your web browser. I thought it came out rather well.

  13. avatar
    Reality Check January 11, 2017 at 10:25 am #

    Yes indeed. I still remember the old wood paneling background from 2008. This is better.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    The background of this site is not a big image of security paper, but just the tiny bit tiled by your web browser. I thought it came out rather well.

  14. avatar
    Northland10 January 11, 2017 at 11:31 am #

    trader jack:
    Of course they are the same, HDOH printed the basket weave on their XEROX at the same time they created the copies.

    there you go, solved.

    Huh? Did you mean HDOH copied (or printed for the ‘short-form) the certificate onto the basket weave security paper on whatever special copier or printers they use?

  15. avatar
    bob January 11, 2017 at 11:35 am #

    Northland10: Huh?Did you mean HDOH copied (or printed for the ‘short-form)the certificate onto the basket weave security paper on whatever special copier or printers they use?

    traderjack is just making up lies as he goes, as the HDOH has never released a digital image of President Obama’s birth certificate.

  16. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 11, 2017 at 1:26 pm #

    Do you care?

    Northland10: Huh? Did you mean

  17. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 11, 2017 at 1:43 pm #

    The oldest capture in the Wayback Machine of my home page shows the “light at the end of the tunnel” image using the “connections reloaded” wordpress theme.. Unfortunately, the tunnel was a lot longer than I anticipated.For some reason, the second theme I used (the one with the paneling) didn’t get fully saved by the WM so although the content is there, the formatting is generic. You can see the theme format here. The final version is a commercial theme, the only thing I ever bought for the site besides hosting services, called Canvas by Woo Commerce.

    Reality Check: Yes indeed. I still remember the old wood paneling background from 2008.

  18. avatar
    Reality Check January 11, 2017 at 2:03 pm #

    Yes, that is the theme I remembered. I recall I thought OCT was a Birther blog the first time I found it.

    Dr. Conspiracy: .For some reason, the second theme I used (the one with the paneling) didn’t get fully saved by the WM so although the content is there, the formatting is generic. You can see the theme format here.

  19. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 11, 2017 at 2:54 pm #

    And I thought the same of Barackryphal.

    Reality Check: I recall I thought OCT was a Birther blog the first time I found it.

  20. avatar
    Orlylicious January 11, 2017 at 5:53 pm #

    Hi Doc, Mike Volin said through Twitter that http://wobc2.com/ isn’t his website, you’re copied on the Twitter thread about it.

    Just asked if he knew about that site. It’s a birther mystery.

    Mike Volin ‏@michaelvolin 7h7 hours ago
    I am aware of the site however never posted or did anything with it.

    Orly Licious ‏@Orly_licious 3h3 hours ago
    Thanks Mike, So you’re saying you didn’t use @DrConspiracy’s website background for your new WOBC site?

    Mike Volin @michaelvolin
    that is correct. I did not use any image. It is not my new site, it is not my site. Your Intel is bad.

    Domain record is private, BlueHost
    Domain Name: WOBC2.COM
    Registry Domain ID: 1852778885_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
    Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.bluehost.com
    Registrar URL: http://www.bluehost.com/
    Updated Date: 2016-02-02T02:07:59Z
    Creation Date: 2014-03-31T17:23:37Z
    Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2017-03-31T17:23:37Z
    Registrar: FastDomain Inc.
    Registrar IANA ID: 1154
    Registrar Abuse Contact Email: abuse@bluehost.com
    Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.8017659400
    Reseller: BlueHost.Com
    Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited (https://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited)
    Registry Registrant ID: FAST-20690455
    Registrant Name: DOMAIN PRIVACY SERVICE FBO REGISTRANT
    Registrant Organization:
    Registrant Street: 560 E TIMPANOGOS PKWY
    Registrant City: OREM
    Registrant State/Province: UTAH
    Registrant Postal Code: 84097
    Registrant Country: US
    Registrant Phone: +1.8017659400

  21. avatar
    Northland10 January 11, 2017 at 6:09 pm #

    Reality Check:
    Yes, that is the theme I remembered. I recall I thought OCT was a Birther blog the first time I found it.

    So did I. I initially was weary of a one or two others, until I dug in.

  22. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 11, 2017 at 6:38 pm #

    Thanks. I have removed tie speculative comment from the article. Better double-check for spoof content.

    Orlylicious: Hi Doc, Mike Volin said through Twitter that http://wobc2.com/ isn’t his website,

  23. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 11, 2017 at 6:41 pm #

    This comment is from WOBC2. Does it sound self-contradictory to you?

    “Thank You for visiting WheresObamasBirthCertificate.com site 2. This is NOT a Birther website. We are not claiming that Obama was born in Kenya, although there is an almost overwhelming amount of evidence to prove that he was.”

  24. avatar
    trader jack January 11, 2017 at 8:51 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    This comment is from WOBC2. Does it sound self-contradictory to you?

    “Thank You for visiting WheresObamasBirthCertificate.com site 2. This is NOT a Birther website. We are not claiming that Obama was born in Kenya, although there is an almost overwhelming amount of evidence to prove that he was.”

    No, that is good lawyer talk, to whit:

    this is not a birther site, it is simply a site where people concerned with these matters will have a site to espouse their particular positions. We do not claim that Obama was born in Kenya , but feel that the evidence that he was not born in Hawaii might be enough to be considered by proponents of that theory to be allowed to post on this site simply to assure fairness in the discussion that might be pertinent to any such discussion

    And that is a proper statement, in my not so humble opinion.

  25. avatar
    trader jack January 11, 2017 at 8:57 pm #

    bob: traderjack is just making up lies as he goes, as the HDOH has never released a digital image of President Obama’s birth certificate.

    ‘DIGITAL IMAGES are electronic snapshots taken of a scene or scanned from documents, such as photographs, manuscripts, printed texts, and artwork

    Digital Imaging Tutorial – Basic Terminology – Cornell University Library

    https://www.library.cornell.edu/preservation/tutorial/intro/intro-01.html

  26. avatar
    trader jack January 11, 2017 at 9:02 pm #

    Northland10: Huh?Did you mean HDOH copied (or printed for the ‘short-form)the certificate onto the basket weave security paper on whatever special copier or printers they use?

    My file was created by taking a screen shot of the White House short form birth certificate (it was done before Obama released the long form) and cropping it by hand using a software program called PhotoImpact.

  27. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 11, 2017 at 9:57 pm #

    That’s not the part I was talking about. I was referencing “We are not claiming that Obama was born in Kenya” while claiming that evidence is overwhelming that he was born in Kenya.

    trader jack: this is not a birther site,

  28. avatar
    bob January 11, 2017 at 10:46 pm #

    ‘DIGITAL IMAGES are electronic snapshots taken of a scene or scanned from documents, such as photographs, manuscripts, printed texts, and artwork

    So which digital image, exactly, did the HDOH publicly release, liar?

  29. avatar
    bob January 11, 2017 at 10:54 pm #

    this is not a birther site, it is simply a site where people concerned with these matters will have a site to espouse their particular positions.

    Arpaio can claim, until he is blue in the face, that his intent was to clear President Obama, but listeners are free to look into Arpaio’s heart and conclude that Arpaio’s intent was to seditiously delegitimize the sitting president.

    The same is true for (ex-con) Volin.

  30. avatar
    JD Reed January 11, 2017 at 11:32 pm #

    What is ironical about Arpaio’s career is that he took office as a reform sheriff after an investigative team of his predecessor booted the highest profile murder case in the history of Arizona– the massacre of six monks, a nun and two young people at a Buddhist temple.
    The investigators with tunnel vision focused on young men known collectively as The Tucson Four, and coerced false confessions from three. They let weeks go by before testing the key piece of evidence, the .22 rifle that turned out to be the murder weapon, thereby leaving one of the real killers ar large long enough to kill again.
    Arpaio announced at the outset of his tenure: “I don’t like confessions … Make sure you’ve got corroborating evidence before you arrest somebody.”
    Yet 10 years later, an Arpaio team was found doing the same thing: coercing
    a mentally challenged man to falsely confess to a triple homicide. A social worker, not Maricopa County deputies, uncovered the exculpatory evidence that sprung the innocent suspect, bus ticket records that proved he was in Oregon when the Arizona slayings took place. Before the case flew apart, Arpaio was talking capital punishment for the suspect.
    “Innocent Until Interrogated, by Phoenix attorney Gary L. Stuart, tells the tale. It’s quite a page-turner.

  31. avatar
    Rickey January 12, 2017 at 12:15 am #

    JD Reed:

    “Innocent Until Interrogated, by Phoenix attorney Gary L. Stuart, tells the tale. It’s quite a page-turner.

    Thanks for the tip. I used to work with Gary Stuart when he was a partner in the Phoenix firm Jennings, Strouss & Salmon circa 1979-1984. I haven’t spoken to him in years and I had no idea that he took up writing.

  32. avatar
    Orlylicious January 12, 2017 at 12:33 am #

    As we’ve learned with birthers, follow the money… The PayPal on the wobc2 page goes to a “Kellyville Productions” page and payments are for “Sheriff’s Kits” https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_flow&SESSION=rcFH551FkvD_xKJkE6FrEre1ZYO0-Ga02N8TQbHG2dAYGZez-FdCZHxhk8K&dispatch=5885d80a13c0db1f8e263663d3faee8d333dc9aadeed3fe0b5b299d55fd35542

    Looked further and Kellyville Productions is at the bottom of original wobc.com pages like http://wheresobamasbirthcertificate.com/_mgxroot/page_10791.html. I wasn’t getting the home page for a while but it popped back up, and the PayPal there is also to Kellyville Productions (but a different landing page, for donation: https://www.paypal.com/donate/?token=IJSBaZIBOUb7UXjPXWvz9aBq5ecNmZvNrIPraDTqxv8Lz_fIJzvT7xsvO3R-WqnwTqhbkG

    There’s a letter on that page from Jeffrey Harrison, but it doesn’t look like it’s connected to Kellyville Productions.

    So why if Mike Volin has nothing to do with the site and has never posted there is whoever does own it only collecting PayPal for… Mike Volin?

    The mystery deepens.

  33. avatar
    Reality Check January 12, 2017 at 6:42 am #

    I asked Volin in chat on his show and he claims he does not own WOBC2.com. I asked him why he is listed on the contact page. He didn’t give me answer that I could see. I was busy correcting Mark Gillar’s lies.

  34. avatar
    Northland10 January 12, 2017 at 7:50 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Do you care?

    It was morbid curiosity. His response did not even answer the question, or as best as I can tell, was not even in the same state as the question.

  35. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 12, 2017 at 9:03 am #

    Mike never said he had nothing to do with the site. He said it’s not his, and that he doesn’t have access to upload to it.

    Orlylicious: So why if Mike Volin has nothing to do with the site and has never posted there is whoever does own it only collecting PayPal for… Mike Volin?

  36. avatar
    Nancy Owens, The Obama Forger January 12, 2017 at 9:40 am #

    😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

    He’s not a very good liar, is he?

    Also, the first link says Paypal account suspended

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1195791077175347&set=a.100559726698493.648.100002333970896&type=3&theater

    Orlylicious:

    So why if Mike Volin has nothing to do with the site and has never posted there is whoever does own it only collecting PayPal for… Mike Volin?

    The mystery deepens.

  37. avatar
    Nancy Owens, The Obama Forger January 12, 2017 at 9:52 am #

    Oh, wow!

    http://wobc2.com/RandyForeman.shtml

    Randy Foreman is listed as a website contributor. Following that, I found an article posted today.

    “Arpaio’s office worked with two experts, Reed Hayes, who was with the President’s law firm Pekins Coie and Forlabs, and an Italian firm that specialized in child pornography cases. Each of the two experts working independently of one another and not knowing one another, both came to the same conclusion that the the April 27, 2011 release of the Obama Birth Certificate matches to the tune of nine points of forgery to the birth certificate of Johanna Ah’nee.”

    Mike ZulloMoore and Arpaio gave Reed Hayes a fake birth certificate, Johanna Ah’nee, to prove that Obama’s birth certificate is fake?!

    Wow!

    My new article on BIN
    http://beforeitsnews.com/obama-birthplace-controversy/2017/01/obamas-fraudulent-birth-certificate-intel-continues-to-mislead-will-trump-correct-2508948.html

    http://newsblaze.com/usnews/politics/white-house-finally-answers-question-on-obama-birth-certificate_72890/

  38. avatar
    JD Reed January 12, 2017 at 1:04 pm #

    Rickey: Thanks for the tip. I used to work with Gary Stuart when he was a partner in the Phoenix firm Jennings, Strouss & Salmon circa 1979-1984. I haven’t spoken to him in years and I had no idea that he took up writing.

    Yes, Stuart has written several books, most I believe on the same general topic as “Innocent Until Interrogated.” Which, btw, can be obtained at a bargain on Amazon, and probably, Alibris.

  39. avatar
    Rickey January 12, 2017 at 4:30 pm #

    Nancy Owens, The Obama Forger:
    “Arpaio’s office worked with two experts, Reed Hayes, who was with the President’s law firm Pekins Coie and Forlabs, and an Italian firm that specialized in child pornography cases.

    Randy Foreman is an idiot. Reed Hayes was never “with” Perkins Coie (and Foreman couldn’t even spell the firm’s name correctly). Reed Hayes was once hired by Perkins Coie (a huge firm with two dozen offices in the U.S.) to work on a case.

  40. avatar
    trader jack January 13, 2017 at 2:49 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Mike never said he had nothing to do with the site. He said it’s not his, and that he doesn’t have access to upload to it.

    !
    AH, you recognize the way a lawyer responds to questions even if they are under oath!
    then you know why I respond to some statements the way that I do.

    Evasion is an art form, is it not?

  41. avatar
    Nancy Owens, The Obama Forger January 13, 2017 at 3:20 am #

    And, Reed Hayes was given TWO fake birth certificates believing one to be a true Hawaiian cert. It’s certainly not Reed Hayes’s fault because, of course, they can only go by what it given to them by the so-called investigators.

    Rickey: Randy Foreman is an idiot. Reed Hayes was never “with” Perkins Coie (and Foreman couldn’t even spell the firm’s name correctly). Reed Hayes was once hired by Perkins Coie (a huge firm with two dozen offices in the U.S.) to work on a case.

  42. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 13, 2017 at 7:48 am #

    But not a virtue.

    trader jack: Evasion is an art form, is it not?

  43. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) January 13, 2017 at 10:36 am #

    Rickey: Reed Hayes was never “with” Perkins Coie

    Typical conspiracy stuff: relevance/degree inflation.

    Postman => US Post Office official
    Someone A met once => Close relative of A
    A’s former spouse’s neigbor’s barber’s cleaning woman => Someone with ties to A
    Former holiday intern at HDOH handling docs => Top HDOH official overseeing handling of docs

    And so on.

  44. avatar
    Rickey January 13, 2017 at 11:13 am #

    trader jack:

    Evasion is an art form, is it not?

    And confidence men are referred to as “con artists.” But you know what? They are still thieves.

  45. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater January 13, 2017 at 11:15 am #

    The Magic M (not logged in): Postman => US Post Office official
    Someone A met once => Close relative of A
    A’s former spouse’s neigbor’s barber’s cleaning woman => Someone with ties to A
    Former holiday intern at HDOH handling docs => Top HDOH official overseeing handling of docs

    Used car salesman => Lt/Captain
    Hayes and Italian guy with no experience with hawaiian documents => Two internationally renowned experts in forgery.

  46. avatar
    trader jack January 13, 2017 at 5:00 pm #

    Rickey: And confidence men are referred to as “con artists.” But you know what? They are still thieves.

    Oh, a good conman steals nothing and in fact is given goods by the mark based upon the fact that the mark will gain something to his benefit.

    Politicians are “con artists” supreme as they promise ,promise, promise, and seldom to the marks realize they have not benefited in the long run.

    Obama conned the people with Obamacare, and the people believed the promises and , perhaps, still believe them.

    One of the things that may be good about the new president is that he does not need more money, but does need more attention and spotlighting, which might result in a different type of con.

  47. avatar
    J.D. Sue January 13, 2017 at 6:23 pm #

    trader jack: One of the things that may be good about the new president is that he does not need more money.

    —–

    This is ridiculous. A greedy person never has enough — it has nothing to do with “need”.

  48. avatar
    Rickey January 13, 2017 at 6:42 pm #

    trader jack: Oh, a good conman steals nothing and in fact is given goods by the mark based upon the fact that the mark will gain something to his benefit.

    On the contrary, taking something and intentionally giving nothing in return (or less than was promised in return) is the very definition of theft.

    Politicians are “con artists” supreme as they promise ,promise, promise, and seldom to the marks realize they have not benefited in the long run.

    Obama has kept, in whole or in part, 76% of his campaign promises.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/

    Obama conned the people with Obamacare, and the people believed the promises and , perhaps, still believe them.

    As of last September, the uninsured rate in the U.S. had dropped to a historic low of 8.6%, down from 16% in 2010.

    http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/07/obamacare-pushes-nations-health-uninsured-rate-to-record-low.html

    One of the things that may be good about the new president is that he does not need more money, but does need more attention and spotlighting, which might result in a different type of con.

    The desire for more money among most billionaires in unquenchable. That is why Trump refuses to divest himself of his businesses or put them into a blind trust.

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/11/news/office-government-ethics-trump-conflicts/

  49. avatar
    J.D. Sue January 13, 2017 at 9:08 pm #

    trader jack: Oh, a good conman steals nothing and in fact is given goods by the mark based upon the fact that the mark will gain something to his benefit.

    —-

    What you call a “mark”, I call a contracting party who has been defrauded of the benefit of his/her bargain.

  50. avatar
    Keith January 13, 2017 at 10:30 pm #

    J.D. Sue: This is ridiculous. A greedy person never has enough — it has nothing to do with “need”.

    And the Donald is probably about a billion dollars in debt anyway.

    His chief con trick is to take his cut off the top of any project, before it actually gets going, then let it go bankrupt. If somehow the project doesn’t go bankrupt he ensures that as many contractors as possible get stiffed for the maximum possible. He then leverages his fake, inflated wealth (look at that Trump Tower ain’t it beautiful? How could you go wrong investing with me when that building is great collateral? (course I don’t own it but my name is on it, innit?).

  51. avatar
    trader jack January 14, 2017 at 3:45 am #

    Rickey: On the contrary, taking something and intentionally giving nothing in return (or less than was promised in return) is the very definition of theft.

    Obama has kept, in whole or in part, 76% of his campaign promises.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/

    As of last September, the uninsured rate in the U.S. had dropped to a historic low of 8.6%, down from 16% in 2010.

    http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/07/obamacare-pushes-nations-health-uninsured-rate-to-record-low.html

    The desire for more money among most billionaires in unquenchable. That is why Trump refuses to divest himself of his businesses or put them into a blind trust.

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/11/news/office-government-ethics-trump-conflicts/

    It is kind of like having a financial adviser. he gives you advice , you take it , and lose money, and you want to declare him a thief because you believed what he said.

    How about the good old you give me a burger today and I will pay you on Tuesday.

  52. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 14, 2017 at 9:44 am #

    It depends on what the fiduciary relationship is and whether the advisor had an interest in the advice he gave.

    trader jack: It is kind of like having a financial adviser. he gives you advice , you take it , and lose money, and you want to declare him a thief because you believed what he said.

  53. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater January 14, 2017 at 12:38 pm #

    trader jack: It is kind of like having a financial adviser. he gives you advice , you take it , and lose money, and you want to declare him a thief because you believed what he said.

    Wow that’s stupid and absurd even financial advisers are held to standards like say if they’re selling fake stocks and inflating their information. Here’s an example: http://www.reuters.com/article/crime-stockbroker-idUSN0941380420061109

  54. avatar
    Rickey January 14, 2017 at 12:51 pm #

    trader jack: It is kind of like having a financial adviser.he gives you advice, you take it, and lose money, and you want to declare him a thiefbecause you believed what he said.

    How dumb can you get? Did you even read what I wrote? I wrote that taking something and intentionally giving nothing in return is theft.

    A financial adviser who in good faith gives you advice that turns out to be bad is not a thief.

    A financial adviser who intentionally gives you bad advice in order to enrich himself is a thief.

    Even a five-year old child can figure that out.

  55. avatar
    Joey January 14, 2017 at 12:56 pm #

    trader jack: !
    AH, you recognize the way a lawyer responds to questionseven if they are under oath!
    then you know why I respond to some statements the way that I do.

    Evasion is an art form, is it not?

    Trader Jack “thinks” that Mike Zullo is a lawyer! Mike Zullo is a former small town police officer who then became a used car salesman.

  56. avatar
    Pete January 14, 2017 at 2:59 pm #

    Rickey: A financial adviser who in good faith gives you advice that turns out to be bad is not a thief.

    A financial adviser who intentionally gives you bad advice in order to enrich himself is a thief.

    Even a five-year old child can figure that out.

    ^ This.

  57. avatar
    Pete January 14, 2017 at 3:02 pm #

    trader jack: then you know why I respond to some statements the way that I do.

    Evasion is an art form, is it not?

    So you admit evading answering questions about any personal connection to the Georgette Bauerdorf and Elizabeth Short murders, even though you’ve confessed that you were in the general vicinity of both at the time that they occurred.

    And you further indicate that you’re proud of your evasion as an “art form.”

  58. avatar
    Northland10 January 15, 2017 at 2:11 pm #

    J.D. Sue: —–
    This is ridiculous.A greedy person never has enough — it has nothing to do with “need”.

    How much is enough? For many of them, the answer is, more. It is the competition and the win the feeds them (and the power and publicity).

    As Daniel Plainview says in There Will Be Blood, ‘I want no one else to succeed.’