Well, I understand that. There has been a tremendous amount of material written saying the two Obama birth certificates, one released in 2008 and one in 2011, aren’t real. You may have seen it on the Internet, heard it on talk radio, gotten it in a chain email, heard it from a relative or even read it in a supermarket tabloid—all the places where there is no fact checking and where only one side of the story gets told and the voice of reason is censored.
In fact, in the face of the barrage of words from the proponents of these forgery theories, it takes some real effort to keep your head and to stop for a minute and consider what you are being asked to believe. You are asked to believe that someone elected to the most powerful office in the world got away with a cheap imitation birth certificate and the only people who KNOW THE TRUTH are a bunch of Internet bloggers, whereas all the courts, the Congress and the news organizations of the world were fooled.
They believe that Obama’s parents, impoverished students, came up with a small fortune for them to travel to Africa, an arduous three-day trip by air, taken at the time of delivery of the baby, disdaining the excellent medical care in Honolulu 15 minutes away in favor of an unknown situation in a third-world country. Somehow they managed to do this without being counted in the 1961-62 Immigration totals of US Citizens returning from Kenya. They did this in spite of Barack Obama’s father’s immigration file showing that he didn’t leave the US that year. They did this in in spite of two Honolulu newspapers listing Obama’s birth from health department reports. They do this in spite of numerous documents and official statements from the state of Hawaii saying Obama was born there and his paperwork is in order.
In short, Barack Obama’s birth in Kenya is simply impossible. Nevertheless, based on some Internet bloggers’ newfound expertise in forensic document analysis, people who never before in their lives had been recognized as expert, you seem to believe that Obama’s birth certificates are a forgery. It doesn’t seem to bother you that one such expert lied about his credentials. It doesn’t seem to bother you that someone who came up with a Kenyan birth certificate for Obama is a convicted forger. It’s not troubling that the Maricopa Cold Case Posse was caught red-handed fabricating evidence and lying about a key argument they made against the certificate (and that almost everything they said, they got from Internet bloggers and everything they said has been discredited)?
You have been eating garbage. Those Internet bloggers, conspiracy theorists, shock jocks and supermarket tabloids have made fools of you. If you want to see exactly how bad it is, I point you to “The debunker’s guide to Obama conspiracy theories” or to John Woodman’s book, “Is Barack Obama’s Birth Certificate a Fraud?”
The prevailing theory is that Obama Sr. had convinced Stanley Dunham to go to Kenya ALONE to have their child WITH THE FAMILY, Barack Obama Jr. while Obama Sr. stayed in the US. Because Obama Sr. had very high connections with the Kenyan government, he had no problem providing the cost of the trip. Dunham went to Kenya and had Obama Jr. in the presense of Obama’s Sr. mother and perhaps others. It was Dunham’s intent to turn the baby over to the family to be raised in Kenya. Maternal instincts kicked in and Dunham decided to flee Kenya with Obama Jr. ulitmately ending up in Washingtion State. It is unknown how Dunham left Kenya but it is possible she left by boat and other means of travel. When Dunham’s family heard about Dunham giving birth, they contacted the Hawaii DOH and told them that a baby was born in the state. Obama Jr, was automatically made a citizen of US and given a birth certificate and birth announcements were generated.
It’s even more complicated than that. To believe the certificates that Obama has publicly released are forged, you also have to explain why it is that the Hawaiian officials charged with the responsibility of maintaining birth records are participating in the conspiracy, because these officials have repeatedly and emphatically vouched for the accuracy and authenticity of those same birth certificates.
Yup! Obama’s two LFCOLBs are both forgeries.
The INS statistical report excludes Dunham from having traveled to Kenya as well.
So you’re saying that Obama was born in Kenya, without either his father or mother being there. That’s truly remarkable.
Hawaii protects their own, Barack Obama is Hawaii’s favorite son. The officials at the Hawaii DOH will do anything to protect Obama from any type of harm. The Hawaii DOH has probably also be told that they have no choice but to participate in the conspiracy. Because Obama has been able to forge stamps and signatures, the Hawaii DOH is trapped in stating what they have stated. Finally, the Hawaii DOH has probably been told and warned about the ramifications of the idea or notion that Obama is ineligible to be the POTUS.
Among whom? The voices in your head? Sorry, John. Those don’t count.
The INS report only covers Air. Dunham could have traveled by boat, train or some other conveyance. It has been a basic assumption made in this whole contraversy.
The basic assumption in this contraversy has been the Dunham traveled to Kenya directly by air. However, this has never been proven or disproven. If Dunham had gone to Kenya, she could have gone by many other conveyances, by boat, by train, by car. We also can’t rule out that Dunham could have gone to another country next to Kenya and traveled their by car. Unless we prove the exact conveyance and route used by Dunham to get to Kenya, the theory can’t be disproven nor can it be proven.
By “prevailing theory” I suppose you actually mean “latest ridiculous story that we’re telling because all of our other ridiculous stories didn’t make sense, either.”
I don’t think the US could handle the ramifications of such a finding that Obama is ineligible to be the POTUS. Such a finding would result in a complete collapse of our government overnight. This is primary reason by the GOP and courts have tried so hard to dismiss this issue.
While our courts can provide an INTERLLECTURAL reason that Obama is eligible under the supposed De Facto Officer Doctrine, no court could provide a common sense reason justifying Obama’s ineligibility of office.
Therefore, such a finding would mean that EVERYTHING that been done by Obama is NULL and VOID and our government would collapse in matter of hours.
Therefore, the GOP will not discuss the issue and the courts will give the issue any merit or discussion.
LSD?
The Kenya birth scenario is physically impossible. I have written about that:
http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2010/03/obama-born-in-kenya-no.html
The “born in Kenya” story is the height of the loony side of the birther movement. It is based on forgeries like that of Lucas D. Smith, and falsifications––such as the claim that Obama’s Kenyan grandmother said that he was born in Kenya—–when she actually said right on the same tape that he was born IN HAWAII, and she said in another interview that the first that her family in Kenya had heard of Obama’s birth was in a letter FROM HAWAII.
Lucas D. Smith, a convicted felon, claimed that he went to Kenya and got Obama’s birth certificate at a hospital in Mombasa. But Lucas D. Smith has constantly refused to show proof that he, Smith, had ever gone to Kenya. All that he would have to do would be to show a Kenya stamp on a page of a passport, but Lucas D. Smith has refused to do that, constantly, and he has also constantly refused to say why he will not show that proof. (Moreover, his “birth certificate” uses US date formats [month/day/year] and not the day/month/year format used in Kenya.)
Laying aside for a moment the overwhelming proof that Obama was born in Hawaii, the evidence that Obama was NOT born in Kenya is also very strong. There were a grand total of 21 people who came to the USA from Kenya in 1961. Of these only seven were US citizens. And the birther myth has always been that Obama’s parents went there and returned by plane, but only one person came to the USA from Kenya in 1961 by plane and that person was, wait for it, NOT a US citizen. And Obama’s father did not go to Kenya in 1961 either (making it unlikely that his mother did, since travel late in pregnancy was rare, and even more rare without the husband going along). WND has proved with a FOI Act request that Obama senior stayed in Hawaii throughout 1961.
And the Kenyan government investigated the “born in Kenya” story, and found that it was not true.
“Jon Chessoni, a first secretary at the Kenyan Embassy in Washington, can’t understand why his office gets so many baseless questions about whether Barack Obama was born in Kenya.
“It’s madness,” said Chessoni on Monday.“His father, in 1961, would not even have been in Kenya. When this matter first came up, the Kenyan government did its research and confirmed that these are all baseless claims.””
http://washingtonindependent.com/53654/forged …
Obama has a Hawaii birth certificate that says that he was born in Hawaii, in Kapiolani Hospital, and the officials of both parties in Hawaii have confirmed that fact. It is also confirmed by the birth announcement in the Hawaii newspapers in 1961, which were sent to the papers only by the DOH of Hawaii.
Obama’s birth announcement appeared in a section of the newspapers called Health Bureau Statistics. As the name indicates, and as the papers and the DOH also say, ONLY the DOH of Hawaii could send birth notices to the Health Bureau Statistics section of the paper. And the DOH only sent out those notices for children that it had issued birth certificates for, and in 1961 the DOH was not allowed to register the births of children who were not born in Hawaii.
Oh, and there is this:
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/04/kapiol …
All crimes, including the forgery of birth certificates, requires three elements: motive, means and opportunity. The above arguments focuses upon the opportunity and the means but not address the motive. Since Barack Obama, regardless of the place of his birth, is entitled to American citizenship because of the citizenship of his mother, the only possible advantage to Obama from birth in the United States is eligibility to be president. It is not necessary, I repeat, John, for Obama to be born in the US to be a American citizen.
So, what I am asked to believe is that, in 1961, Obama’s parents certain that the probability that he would be elected president in 2008 would be worth the effort, time and money spent to accomplish this crime? Yeah, I know, every parent is convinced that their child could grow up to be president but really?
Continuing with the “born in Kenya” discussion:
Is that all? NO there is more.
Birthers allege that the Kenyan government has hidden all documents that prove that Obama’s mother went to Kenya. Well, that is possible, but not likely—such things tend to leak. But what about the US government? Did it hide its records too?
The reason to ask that is because, obviously, if a child were born in Kenya she or he would need a US travel document to get to the USA. We simply do not allow a child to be carried into the USA without some form of official document. (Except some are smuggled across the Mexican and Canadian borders, but Kenya does not have a land border with the USA.)
But a US travel document, such as having Obama added to his mother’s US passport would have required an application for that document in the US consulate in Nairobi Kenya.
That application would have been filed in multiple files, and there would have been communication about it with Washington, so it would be difficult to be lost or scrapped. And the Bush Administration was in charge of the US State Department for eight years until early 2009, so they could have found it, and if they did they would surely have shown it, and they didn’t.
So, for the “born in Kenya” story to be true, both Kenya and the Bush Administration must be part of a plot. Hawaii too, of course, and that would include the former Republican governor of Hawaii, a friend of Sarah Palin. And the birth notices in the Hawaii newspapers that were placed by the DOH in the Hawaii newspapers (and only the DOH could put notices into the Health Bureau Statistics section of the papers) in 1961 would have to be fraudulent too.
And, Kenya is about ten thousand miles from Hawaii, and the idea that Obama’s parents had that kind of money or would spend it on a trip while Obama’s mother was late in pregnancy (which was very rare in those days) and take the risk of stillbirth and Yellow Fever (which was endemic in Kenya, and a Yellow Fever shot is bad during pregnancy) is nutty in the extreme.
The bottom line: There is no proof that Obama’s mother went to Kenya and it is highly unlikely that she did. The Kenyan government and Obama’s relatives both say that he was not born in Kenya.
If he were born in Kenya there would have to be US government documents saying that his family applied for a passport or a visa, and there isn’t any. There is no INS check in for Obama or his mother (which would normally have taken place in New York, since there were no direct flights, and those files are not missing), and the birth certificate and the confirmation of the officials of both parties and the Index Data and the birth notices in the Hawaii newspapers all show that he was born in Hawaii.
So the voices in your head tell you. But remember, the original confirmations from Hawaii came from Republicans. No, you’re relying on your imagination instead of facts.
Exactly, you have no coherent story and no proof. That is why the birther movement is intellectually bankrupt.
Maybe some people feel that way but EVERYBODY in the Courts and Congress and the media? And this crazy excuse ignores the fact that all these allegations were there in 2008 when Obama was just a junior Senator from Illinois. Sorry, but you have nothing.
Linda Lingle is Jewish and a Republican. I know it sounds crazy.
She felt McCain/Palin would be better for Israel, than Obama. If she could have found anything, the GOP would have used it with glee.
She looked, and found bupkis.
Sorry, did someone say Kenya?So sorry.Big misunderstanding. Understandable, it makes so much sense, but nonetheless a misunderstanding.
The real prevailing theory is Ann Dunham snuck off on a boat as a refugee from her parents and the United States, but her small craft wasshipwrecked on her way to Indonesia, and she gave birth to her son on the shore of Papua New Guinea.A friendly tribe took her in, during which time she realized she needed more support for her newborn, and that she would have to start over and try again later.Her adopted tribe helped her build a small dugout from the local trees, while fighting off a decidedly unfriendly tribe, and supplied her with enough sweet potatoes for the journey back to Hawaii.
Upon her return, she had her parents help with the false information about her son’s birth in Hawaii, to avoid any unpleasantness explaining her trip.
She made new plans to achieve her original goal and then married a man from Indonesia, moved there and had a daughter.At this point, she didn’t bother faking her daughter’s birth.She was finished with America.But then her parents blackmailed her.Having destroyed evidence of their own involvement, they told her that if she didn’t let the young Barack come back to America, they would spill the beans on her. She acceded to their demands.
Later, she gave up on Indonesia, realizing the error of her ways, and returned to America. The rest is history.
I invite everyone and anyone to prove this theory wrong, or better to provide their own prevailing theories (I mean, prevailing hot air). With enough theories, I am certain we will one day hit upon the truth!
#theprevailingtheoryis
😉
It’s called Watergate. Look into it.
Every reporter and blogger wants to be the next Woodward and Bernstein. I rest my case.
Unicorns. Don’t forget the unicorns.
She took a train from Kenya to Hawaii? Would that be kinda like the train in The Polar Express…..kinda flying through the air? Cool.
They don’t call him the “Messiah” for nothing, Doc.
She drove, maybe?
I’d like to see the AAA TripTik on that one.
It’s so obvious. Stanley Ann Dunham’s secret identity is Kara Zor-El.
It’s not so much that anti-American birthers are delusional idiots but more so that their paranoia, bigotry and hatred consumes them.
You didn’t put a lot of thought into that one, did you? You know, while you were making up this hoot of a prevailing theory, you might as well have just thrown in some time travel and extraterrestrials, too.
Oh, and by the way, you haven’t looked at that INS report, have you?
A theory should be capable of being disproven.
And let’s not forget Ms. Frizzle’s Magic School Bus, Santa’s sleigh, and Aladdin’s carpet. I’ve seen all three of these conveyances on t.v., so they must exist, and at least two of them have been around for a long time.
John: The prevailing theory is that Obama Sr. had convinced Stanley Dunham to go to Kenya ALONE to have their child WITH THE FAMILY, Barack Obama Jr. while Obama Sr. stayed in the US. a baby was born in the state. Obama Jr, was automatically made a U.S. citizen.
.
John, would you please be more specific about what you mean by “the prevailing theory?” Surely you don’t mean among the public at large, so you must mean the conspiracy theorists known as birthers. Being a conspiracy theorist means never having to say you’re wrong. You just conjecture something, and then give your conjecture equal – or superior — weight, in comparison to irrefutable facts.
Let’s see how much of what you said is provable BS. I know it’s picky, but the lady you refer to Obama Sr’s mother is actually his stepmother.
Question: Why would the birth take place in Monbassa, hundreds of miles in the opposite corner of Kenya – actually not yet a part of Kenya?
If she had returned by boat, how long would it have taken her to get back to Hawaii? Surely not in time for the birth announcements to appear in the Honolulu papers. So what you’re alleging is that the DOH just took the word of someone calling in a birth report, without even having a live baby to prove it.
Show us — with no conecture — how the DOH’s procedures were that lax back then.
If the DOH did automatically provide a birth certificate for baby Obama stating he was born in Hawaii, then logically there would be no reason for the White House to produce a forged copy of the BC. In your scenario, Mr. Obama would have a BC authentic in form although fraudulent in content.
This pretty much contradicts the birthers who assert that Mr. Obama presented a copy of a forged document to the public. Under your scenario, there would be no need to.
John, you never seem to respond to pointed questions that challenge your factual allegations and logic. Still I’ll issue a challenge based on a quote from John Milton in his excellent defense of freedom of expression, the Areopigatica:
““I cannot praise a fugitive and cloistered virtue, unexercised and unbreathed, that never sallies out and sees her adversary, but slinks out of the race where that immortal garland is to be run for, not without dust and heat. ”
You’re no sallier, but a slinker.
I was just thinking that it must have been a flying carpet, with Dunhams and Obamas being muslims and all.
Of course, it wouldn’t. But since you believe it would and yet continue to claim that he is ineligible, I can only conclude that you want and hope for a collapse of the US. So, I must ask you if you are pursuing your anti-American agenda as a hobby or are you a paid agent of a hostile foreign state?
“You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”
Yeah, but Santa’s an Obama-style socialist who hands out gifts to people, and Ms. Frizzle is definitely a radical feminist, just like Obama’s mom. So I don’t think you can discount either of them.
Of course, the more scientifically-minded birthers will remind us that no one’s been able to rule out the theory than Mrs. Obama arrived in Kenya with the help of Captain Kirk and the Enterprise.
It always amazes me how you people who are trying to “Save” the Constitution know so little about it. Read it and you’ll find there will be no collapse of the Government.
Let me tell you, I once drove the Hawaii-Mombasa tunnel. There is nothing to look at the whole 10,000 miles except the concrete walls of the tunnel. At 60 mph it takes about 2 weeks. The rest areas are 50 miles apart, the food sucks and the beds in the motels have mattresses that are hard as rocks. And the bathrooms-don’t ask…..
But Jim, don’t you remember the two years of civil war and race riots that followed the resignation of Richard Nixon–or has the NWO brainwashing gotten to you too?
No doubt Stanley Ann called her parents on her satellite cell phone and instructed them to report the birth to Hawaii DOH. And then Hawaii DOH called in Dr. Sinclair and instructed him to put his career in jeopardy by certifying that he had delivered a baby in Honolulu when in fact the baby was born in Kenya. And then Verna Lee agreed to affix her signature to the fraudulent birth certificate. Yes, that makes a lot of sense. What could possibly have gone wrong? It was foolproof!
Nevertheless, taking the tunnel is better than driving. Back in ’62 my dad forced our family to travel to Mombasa in his brand new Amphicar. Only 45 hp, and could barely do 5 knots in the ocean. I’m STILL trying to get the water out of my ears.
http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z9283/Amphicar-700-Amphibious.aspx
Doc,
One thing that you left out which jumped out at me- a horrible civil war had ended in Kenya the year before- for several years the West had been bombarded with stories of atrocities during Mau Mau uprising. In the 1960’s this was a big news item and was horrifying to people in the West.
Hard to imagine that Ann Dunham would want to go there after hearing about this for years, or that her parents would allow it.
About as likely as a young white girl leaving Hawaii today to go give birth in Somalia.
Obama WAS Born in Kenya, Compilation of Support Data
http://www.wasobamaborninkenya.com/InspectorSmith/forumdisplay.php/9-Obama-WAS-Born-in-KENYA-Compilation-of-Support-Data
It was for the pitiable folks like you that this article was written.
That’s just old Luke and Luke’s waiting on the Judgment Day.
From the linked story: “The vehicle is a fine watercraft…The Amphicar was the ultimate vehicle for the best of both worlds…It was designed by Hans Trippel and built in Germany…Its true charm was its versatility, uniqueness, and shock-value. Unknowing spectators were often treated to unexpected entertainment as the Amphicar’s drove into the water and floated. Twin propellers…carried the vehicle and its passengers over the water and safely back to land…the steel is much thicker and great care was given to the assembly and to the joins to keep them leak proof…”
And from Time: “A vehicle that promised to revolutionize drowning, the Amphicar was the peacetime descendant of the Nazi Schwimmwagen…The standard line is that the Amphicar was both a lousy car and a lousy boat…Its single greatest demerit — and this is a big one — was that it wasn’t particularly watertight. Its flotation was entirely dependent on whether the bilge pump could keep up with the leakage. If not, the Amphicar became the world’s most aerodynamic anchor…during the recent floods in Britain, an Amphicar enthusiast served as a water taxi, bringing water and groceries to a group of stranded schoolkids. Bully!”
http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1658545_1658498_1657832,00.html #ixzz2FQkocvto
LSD, or methyl alcohol moonshine?
Thanks for spilling the beans. NOT.
Just like Watergate.
Mr. Steadman,
Years ago as a young lad reporter I learned that you need to ask a few questions before running with a story; the five W’s – Who, What, When, Where and Why. I usually added in a H – How? And if you don’t get solid answers to all of them you may not have a story.
So…..looking quickly through your “Support Data” I’m left with a couple of questions that I don’t see answers for:
First is “why?” Please answer that one for me. Why would all those people gone to all that trouble just to have him born in Kenya but to pretend like he was born in Hawaii.
Second is “how”? How did Obama’s mother pay for all that travel in 1961? Strikes me all that travel – over two months? – was probably pretty expensive. How was it paid for? How as her stay in Kenya paid for?
I look forward to your answers so I can wrap this up.
Because there is nothing more convincing than “evidence” from a convicted felon – a forger, swindler and con man.
$22K in constant dollars, cash on the barrel head. IOW, one year’s salary, from each of her parents:
http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2010/03/obama-born-in-kenya-no.html
And child molester.
Plus 1 for the “The Weight” reference.
No, L.D.S.
Maybe they got one of those package deals on Expedia.
Music from Big Pink.
bada-bing
And his birther accomplice, BFF and promoter, B. Steadman.
Obama WAS Born in Hawaii, Compilation of Support Data:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/96756764/Barack-Obama-Was-Born-in-Hawaii
What a profound misunderstanding the the “de facto officer” doctrine. You got everything exactly backwards. The doctrine has nothing to do with whether or not Obama is actually eligible for the office. It does not protect him in any way. What it does is protect the country by stating that EVERYTHING that has been done by Obama is VALID and NOT VOID.
Not to shoot a big hole into your argument when it obviously has a few already, but there was no direct phone connection between Africa and the USA at the time. The fastest way to contact the USA from Kenya would have been by telegram, and that telegram would have had to go through London.
Um….Paul….I think you misunderstood. Just a guess, you understand, because you’re right it wouldn’t have been a satellite cell phone but, rather, the then very popular Dick Tracy video wrist watch. It worked everywhere.
Google it. I got over 5-million hits so it must be true.
John, that’s certainly an interesting story you’ve cooked up. But besides the numerous reasons Doc pointed out that it can’t be true, you don’t really have any evidence that it IS true. You’ve instead started with your conclusion (Barack Obama was born in Kenya), and tried to build a scenario that could fit it. But your scenario is fictional, and the bogus facts you have (the birth certificates are forged, the SSN is stolen, the selective service registration is forged) etc., don’t even support your scenario. It’s like if I said “evolution is false and the account of the creation in Genesis is true because Hurricane Katrina was caused by chemtrails”.
We look at the facts (2 birth certificates with no evidence of forgery, birth announcements in Hawaii, corroboration by Hawaii Department of Health Officials) and come to the obvious conclusion that Obama was born in Hawaii. We don’t really CARE that it was Hawaii. We don’t need it to be Hawaii. That’s just where the evidence comes from.
No, no, Doc, INTERLLECTURAL-ly bankrupt 😀
… at least he did recognize them as ‘our’ courts. A small glimmer of hope for john’s reality sensors.
But John’s got a l-o-o-o-n-g way to go still.
also, John, you say the truth about Obama would lead to the collapse of our government, which I assume would mean chaos. Yet you’re a cheerleader for moving Heaven and Earth to make exactly that happen.
(Of course, nothing like this will happen, but in your parallel universe …)
So tell us, exactly, what kind of patriot you are.
Prevailing theory? That’s a new theory. After you guys were told repeatedly Obama Sr never left the US you guys only decided to claim she went alone. This makes just as little sense. A 9 months pregnant woman isn’t going to be able to board a plane alone go to a foreign country where her husband’s family doesn’t speak english and then rush to return to the US. Obama Sr had no connections to the government of Kenya while he was a student. It wasn’t until many years later that he had connections.
Does this also include the Johnson State Department who vouched for a 6 year old Barack Obama Jr in 1967 saying he was born in Honolulu Hawaii on August 4th 1961. What was their motivation?
A transatlantic train? Are you sane? The boat records would be public records you should have no problem digging up a passenger manifest showing this.
Tell me Bruce why should we trust what a convicted felon forger and admitted child molester Lucas Smith writes?
Who’s more nuts:
* “Birthers”
* People who dedicate their lives to battling the birther “threat”
?
Right, I did forget. They met the unicorns in New Guinea.
“One pill makes you larger
And one pill makes you small
And the ones that mother gives you
Don’t do anything at all”
Marty Balin’s father was Jewish. It’s a real conspiracy.
“the prevailing theory”.
From my perspective as a trained scientist, it looks like a hypothesis to me, and a hypothesis that has little in the way of evidence to back it up. In the scientific method “X could have happened” doesn’t cut it, any more than it would be useful in a court of law. What is needed is a hypothesis that is falsifiable i.e. it can be definitely proved to be true. Absent proof, the existing state of knowledge remains.
So..by what means did you determine that it was “prevailing” and a “theory”?
just everytime i think it’s over something like this comes along, and i have to wonder why.
Try to focus. Maybe it’s a forgery, maybe it’s not. The case for forgery hasn’t been proved, but it certainly hasn’t been disproved.
Obama could have been born in Hawai’i and have a forged birth certificate.
The alleged perp’s behavior, specifically the manner in which the harvard-trained lawyer presented his “evidence,” is itself evidence of bad faith.
For some reason, you advocate that the accused be allowed to continue to hide the relevant evidence. Therefore, you are a phony.
Try to focus?
Your post is asinine nonsense. No maybe about that.
The legal evidence of the President’s birth on U.S. soil and natural born status was presented by the authority of the state of Hawaii supported by the U.S. Constitution in the same manner as they would for any citizen and resident of that state.
Just admit that you have no respect for the law or the spelling of proper nouns.
Unless you have credible evidence of malfeasance by the state of the Hawaii, you have nothing but mindless, paranoid gibberish.
Try to focus.
The document that Obama showed reporters is genuine. The State of Hawaii has confirmed it.
The document that Obama showed all of us in 2008 is genuine also. The State of Hawaii has confirmed it.
There is no ‘alleged perp’ since even you admit the document may be genuine.
The only way the President could have presented his Birth Certificate in a more proper manner is if he had had a clown dressed as Donald Trump juggling as he showed the reporters his birth certificate.
Nicely put and so true.
What “relevant evidence”?
In other words, the entire CIA, FBI, Secret Service and NSA, are too stupid to figure out what a bunch of nutbags and flim-flam artists who took their time out from warning us about chem trails, alien abductions, and miracle cancer cures have all figured out.
Shouldn’t the question be: who tastes better?
Nobody is “battling the birther threat.” Unless you count the lawyers who have been dragged into court to battle birfoons’ frivolous lawsuits.
What anti-birfers spend time on is sharing stories and reports about the very hilarious and entertaining blockheadedness of Birfers and mocking the seditious and anti-American Right Wing Nut Jobs who are all of a piece with the Birfers.
The funniest thing is when they think they’ll be proven right Any Day Now. That’s rich.
the birther issue is essentially over, it is done. birthers need to find another way to demonstrate their hate of Obama, the birther meme is toast
Funny, I thought it was more due to the fact that every single birther conspiracy theory or claim doesn’t have the slightest amount of credibility, and the entire mythos that the birthers have assembled is a steaming load of bovine byproducts.
No, there is no such thing as the Magic Reset Button, sorry.
Can I buy pot from you?
john don’t smoke no mary-g-wanna. He’s a interllectural!
That’s easy – Planters nuts.
Prevailing theory at Bellevue maybe. In the real world, not so much since Obama’s birth in Hawaii is a proven fact.
Birthers
Sorry, but it has been disproved. It is a complete legal impossibility for it to be a forgery.
Oh, I get it now, finally. Duh. He/she means the birth certificate has been forged out of iron! So much needless misunderstanding. Birthers don’t mean the President’s birth certificate is fake. They just mean it’s forged on an anvil. They just think that is a little pretentious. Fair enough. I mean, who has an iron birth certificate?
See? If only we tried to understand each other more.
😉
Really? And how do you think Obama Sr’s Kenyan wife would have taken to that? Especially since Kenya had laws against bigamy…wouldn’t the LAST thing he would do would be to send proof he was breaking the law in 2 countries?
Mere birth in the USA is not enough to be a “Natural-Born Citizen”. One’s parents must also have been Americans at the time of one’s birth.
An NBC is:
“One born on US Soil of Parents who are both Americans”
-See Minor v Happersett,USSCt.
Being born on a Country’s soil is called Jus Soli
One’s blood ancestry is called Jus Sanquinis
One can have Jus soli without having Jus Sanquinis.
Example: Anchor babies born here of illegal aliens.
To be POTUS or VP One MUST be born on US Soil (Jus Soli)
IN ADDITION TO
Having Paents who are BOTH American Citizens.
For these reasons BOTH Obama and McCain,along with Swartzenegger,Rubio and even Romney are DQ’d.
Obama lacks 100% Jus Sanguinis. His Father was a Brit when Jr. was born. Obama is DQ’d even IF he were born in Hawaii.
McCain lacks Jus Soli. Though his Parents were Americans,McCan was born on Panamanian soil,in Colon Hospital,Colon Panama, which was NOT part of the Panama Canal Zone,BY TREATY,
Marco Rubio’s parents were still Cuban Citizens when he was born.
Swartzenegger was born in Austria
Romney’s Father was born in Mexico. If he wasn’t naturalized, MITT is DQ’d/
Get it?
Google: “There is NO ‘President’ Obama”
Ooops, Clean up on aisle 8, Birfoon droppings ……
Dickie, Dickie, Dickie….so sad
Minor v Happersett……….Voting rights for women case, said it was not deciding about cirizenship, didn’t say only 2 USA citizen parents are the requirement, supseded by the 19th Amendment…FAIL
Wong Kim Ark…….Actual case about an individual, born on the soild without ANY USA citiizen parents, found by the Supreme Court to be an NBC. Even in the dissent the Chief Justice stated that by the finding it meant WKA could run for President….FAIL
Ankeny v Indiana…..a SPECIFIC case about President Obama which stated CATEGORICALLY that he was an NBC based upon
“[b]ased upon the language of Article II, Section 1, Clause 4 and the guidance provided by Wong Kim Ark, we conclude that persons born within the borders of the United States are ‘natural born Citizens’ for Article II, Section 1 purposes, regardless of the citizenship of their parents.”
Dickie FAIL….so sad…. 8-(
So, Mr Laity, don’t you find it interesting that in the last 2 elections, BOTH major parties nominated people you believe were not natural born citizens? And, several of their primary opponents also didn’t meet your criteria. Moreover, several of the leading canidates for 2016, on the GOP side at least, don’t either. I would have to conclude that either no one shares your opinion or no one cares, or both.
And this would be proof of what? That there are goofy people out there?
“you should know that evidence is not stuff printed from the internet.” – Judge Charles Margines.
You are factually, legally and historically incorrect. There is absolutely no support for any claim that two citizen parents are required for NBC, while on the other hand there is a Supreme Court ruling that birth on US soil is sufficient even if it were illegal at the time for your alien parents to apply for citizenship.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ViF6JRNjTk
(I’m tired of responding to the same birther b.s. Funny how they think they know more than every court that has heard this argument)
I see your links and raise you some thinks:
http://www9.georgetown.edu/faculty/kingch/how_to_think.htm
Robert Christopher Laity? This one? http://tesibria.typepad.com/whats_your_evidence/AGJPresentments/AGJ%20-%20NY%20Fed%20-%20Rejection.pdf
Sorry Mr. Laity, the courts don’t seem to agree with you. Neither do the Framers of the Constitution, the Congresses from the First to the current, most of the Republican party (including John C. Fremont, the very first Republican candidate for President — born out-of-wedlock to a non-citizen father), and pretty much everyone else.
But thanks for stopping by to educate us.
That was just awesome. An excellent primer on rational thinking and discussion in general. Thank you!
And yet Obama was elected in 2008, confirmed by Congress and sworn in by Chief Justice Roberts.
And was just re-elected. And will be confirmed again.
I know this is what YOU believe. But reality and what everyone else believes shows otherwise.
Mr. Laity: I agree with you. In fact, I believe Obama may have been born in Kenya. Check out this Kenyan BC:
http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2009/09/another-kenyan-birth-certificate.html
Seems Mr. Laity is a bit of a potty mouth:
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/5/1504/626180/
Wrong. McCain wasn’t born in Colon. He was born in the base hospital at the Coco Solo Naval Base.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/mccain_announcement_041708.pdf
Besides, it’s irrelevant where McCain was born if it was not on US soil. In his case, it was his father’s US citizenship that made him a natural born US citizen. US bases in foreign countries are not US soil, nor was the Canal Zone, an unorganized territory, ever considered US soil.
Methyl alcohol moonshine?
Agreed. I don’t believe that it makes any difference where McCain was born. I just can’t resist correcting birthers when they spread myths.
You are a complete and utter moron!
Well then, Bob just fits several antisocial behavior patterns we see amongst the Birtheristani in high rates, comparitive to the population as a whole:
A past history of being canned from a job for his own inappropriate actions and a propensity to, instead of taking responsibility for his own misbehavior, waste courtroom time with his shameless tantrums…and losing badly….and still not learning from the experience.
These people are the social outcasts of society…sadly, their bitterness stems from being unable to rise above their own false sense of entitlement. Miserable losers like this will never learn and they seem to do nothing but create more problems for themselves…and yet blame everyone else instead of face up to their own failures.
Pathetic and sad…he’s nothing but another Walter Fitzpatrick…
And a prolific birther. On topix.com alone, Bonkers Birther Bob has posted 26,843 times since November 2nd, 2008 which is an average of 18 posts per day for a solid four years. And that’s just one open forum website.
source: http://www.topix.com/member/profile/robertlaity
Gee, in that time I’ve only made 14,465 comments here.
That’s because you are optimized!
Wow…real life must really, really suck for those that are so mired in such obsessive hate!
Folks like him (and KBOA, Fitzpatrick, etc.) are Fatal Attraction taken to the extreme.
Your comments weren’t a bizarre posting of “Obama IS an Imposter,a traitor,spy and a Fraud.” over and over again, thousands of times – the equivalent to “LALALALALA I can’t hear you” or someone banging his head against a concrete wall.
The other big difference, of course, is that Bonkers Bob posts as a guest and not a host.
🙂
Excellent points. Well said!
Arkenny was an Indiana decision. It was warped. Indiana does not decide US Constitutional issues. The Law remains: NBCs are people born on US Soil of 100% American Parents.
The Problem is that Obama IS a Traitor,fraud and Spy under US Law.
You will see MANY MORE comments on the subject until Obama is arrested and tried for treason. I do not give up the ship. I took an Oath when I worked for the federal government and military which I intend to honor.
G, Don’t know where you get your info but I never got “canned”. I am a retired federal employee on earned pension. Obama is a criminal deviant,deserves to be hung by the next until dead,if he is convicted of treason,which he now stands accused of.
Be our guest. You saw how well birther arguments worked in both 2008 and 2012. They were ignored by both sides. Nothing happened with them and nothing will continue to happen. Obama will serve his full term until January 20, 2017 and there’s not thing one you can do about it. So by all means, rant impotently on the internet to people who know better.
And yet, the Ankeny decision has been quoted in numerous state and federal courts decisions on this matter, making it the law until it is overturned by another court. Don’t go holding your breath, RCL, hate for you to lose that pension that us taxpayers are providing you.
One wonders why, if Indiana courts do not have jurisdiction to determine Constitutional issues, why the great legal minds on Mr. Laity’s side filed their case there. Or why Dr. Taitz, the noted Constitutional lawyer has pursued and is pursuing caes in the Indiana state courts. Mr. Laity, could they be wrong?
Actually that is not true. McCain was born on the Coco Solo Submarine Base, not in Colon.
The “birth certificate” presented as evidence in Hollander v. McCain is so bad a fake that the birthers could only wish for Obama’s to be half as sloppy.
But the State of New York does?
Actually, under US Law, he is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Try to keep that in mind.
Unlike in Alice and Wonderland, saying something doesn’t make it so.
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.
What Indiana did was make a compelling analysis of law and precedents to reach the conclusion that Obama was a natural born citizen and therefore qualified to be the President of the United States. Other jurisdictions have looked at Indiana’s analysis and said “Yeah… that!” They have enthusiastically endorsed Indiana’s logic and rejected birthers’ illogic.
OMG, how could I have missed the most accurate statement you have made to date.
Only in the sad, sick delusional fantasy minds of bitter folks like you. Back here in the real world…eh, not so much.
Any. Day. Now…
Hey, keep wasting what is left of your sad and miserable life. You must get off on failure. So hey, keep doubling down on stupidity…in the end, you’ll have accomplished nothing and the President and the world will have gone on just fine, regardless of your obstinate delusions.
My apologies to you on this one. The information I had neither states nor supports that you were ever “canned”. It is therefore certainly a faulty assumption to make on my part, in painting too broad of a overgeneralization brush link between your personal history and folks like crazy Walt Fitzpatrick.
I went from this and jumped to unsupported conclusions:
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/5/1504/626180/
In particular:
The information of your case mere states that you had a history of being unable to control your foul language, for which resulted in degrees of reprimand punishments. Besides the main case you contested, the prior example stated shows only results of indefinite supension from your position as a union steward.
While I viewed that as being “canned” from an actual position (union steward has always been more than a mere title from my experience – it usually comes with a set of responsibilities and official monetary or benefit perks), I also realize that a more fair and stricter implication of the term “canned” means “actually fired”, which is certainly a degree of difference from anything categorized as only a “suspension”, whether characterized as “indefinite” or not.
Therefore, upon serious reflection, I am happy to fully apologize and retract for using the term “canned” in terms of characterizing what little I know about your past. I now see that as inappropriate and unfair to you and will not make that mistake again.
I may strongly disagree with your personal views and your bitter denialism attitude, but you are certainly also deserve proper human dignity for those things that you have accomplished in your life, so yes, although you had some personal character troubles during your career, at the end of the day, as you said, you are “a retired federal employee on earned pension”
I just hope that you can find an increasing amount of time in the remaining years of your life to spend doing positive, productive and non foolish things, instead of wasting too much of what you have left, obsessing over irrational fears and bitterness.
Agreed. Well said.
Absolutely. The D-K effect is quite strong in RWNJ land, particutlarly amongst the Birtheristani Cult…
Sadly, that is why many of them are beyond hope of reaching. How can you communicate with someone who is incapable of even recognizing their own mistakes or more importantly, grasping how utterly foolish they come across to any sane, rational and intelligent person? All they seem capable of is doubling down on stupid and sticking their feet farther in their own mouth…
Please quote the specific law and describe the specific actions that merits that assertion.
Let me fix that for you:
The operative word is most. Not all, not only. Just most.
The law remains?
Care to cite the law that requires both parents to be citizens for you to be a natrual born citizen?
I’ll help you out: There is none. In fact, neither parent needs to be a citizen, if your birth is on US soil. This is not even remotely in dispute.
You are incorrect. There is not one single historical,legal or factual basis for your claim. In fact, neither parent needs to be a citizen if you are born on US soil. This is settled and has always been the case. It is not even remotely open to dispute.
The Panama Canal Zone was not US soil either.
You’re a pathetic racist piece of rat doodoo.
Please hold your breath until that ship comes in!
Wow you really take this flogging a dead horse thing seriously.
Assuming you actually did do military service…
If you did take the same oath I did, then you dishonor your oath and all veterans and soldiers with your sedition and disloyalty to the Constitution.
I know that. I said that he “Stands accused of Treason”.
Justice WILL prevail. “Birthers” aren’t duped like Obamatoids were.
I am right. Indiana erred! Simple as that!
18USC,Part 1,Chapter 115,Sec.2381
and
The Uniformed Code of Military Justice at Article 902.
Obama has aided,abetted and has given comfort to enemies of the United States of America. One example is when,as a US Senator,owing allegiance to the US DID give aid and comfort to his “paternal cousin” in Kenya,Raila Odinga, by actively campaigning for him in a run for Kenyan Presidency against Mwai Kabaki,a US ally. This was a violation of the Logan Act also. Odinga is complicit with and associates with persons involved in the BOMBING of two US embassies in Kenya and Tamzania in 1998.
Obama,having usurped the Presidency of the USA is a SPY under the UCMJ because he is unauthorized to BE in any place,during a time of war,in which the consuct of that war is engaged in. He is unauthorized to ever be inside the Pentagon,the situation room or any other such place because he is not the bona-fides POTUS.
Read the Oath again Soldiers and Veterans, Obama has taken over your command. It is YOUR duty and mine to defend against Domestic and Foreign enemies. It wasn’t me who said:
“The Constitution is flawed”-Barack Obama
The “Race card”? That’s your best shot? Obama is both Black and White,as well as Arab.
Just because he happens to be part Black does NOT give him carte-blanche or a free pass to betray the United States of Amereica or to use his race as a positive defense for it. “Rat doodoo” has MORE value to America then a Traitor like Obama does.
100% Disabled U.S. Navy,Vietnam Combat Veteran
By treaty,it was.
“One born on US Soil”-Jus Soli
“…of Parents who are Citizens”-Jus Sanquinis
Simple enough concept. NO “Mistake” here.
One must meet BOTH Jus Soli AND Jus Sanquinis to be President.
Obama doesn’t.
Again,NO “Mistake” here.
Show me where I am in error and I will admit it. You cannot!
I remind you of Article 3 Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution:
Since when have we ever been at war with Kenya? I mean ever? Do you have some ingrained blindness about the Constitution and what it says?
Since he hasn’t usurped anything, your assertion doesn’t have anything to do with law in anyway shape or form. It is just your fantasy voices talking to you again.
Since he is President, his authorization to be the President is unquestioned. When you operate from false premises, you end up with false conclusions.
I was a federal employee when I volunteered to serve as a Federal Union steward. I agree that I sometime used “intemperate” language. Many stewards do. The Federal Labor Relations Authority eventually ruled that “Profanity is perfectly acceptable in the workplace”. My union was subject od several Unfair Labor Practice Charges filed against them by me as well as the charges which the agency were served with. It is in the normal course of Labor Management relations that meetings between stewards and managers are “Protected activity”. The use of profanity,while it may be uncouth,is part and parcel of that “protected” conduct.
I will spend my retirement the way I see fit. Exposing Obama for his treason is a worthy endeavour.
You missed the “OR” in there? Obama has aided,adhered to and abetted America’s enemies. We are at war at this time in Afghanistan. Obama is NOT,nor has he ever been the bona-fides President. He is therefore unauthorized to be in the White House and IS a Spy.
I am one of many,more than the two required,who have witnessed Obama’s treason. I have affixed my signature on formal charges which are currently on file with the US Supreme Court and NY State Supreme Court,Appellate Division,the FBI,ICE and the US Attorney General of NY and of the US. The US Attorney for the USDC, District of DC and also the US Attorney for the USDC,WDNY were also served along with many other public officials.
“The Law of Nations” as incorporated by reference in the US Constitution,See Article 1,Sec.8
A Natural-Born Citizen is “one born in a country of parentS who are citizens”
Minor v. Happersett,USSCt., affirmed this.
There was a previous case in which someone USURPED the Presidency.
Chester Arthur was NOT a natural-Born American.
You wish!
Obama is not subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice, so, he cannot have Violated Article 902.
As far as
I never knew that we were at war with Kenya and Kenya was an enemy. According to the U.S. State Department, Kenya is an ally of the United States.
This has been debunked. Obama never campaigned for anybody in Kenya. And one person isn’t an ally. By your definition, then anybody in Britian who supported John Kerry committed Treason against Great Britian because John Kerry was running against George W. Bush.
The Logan Act specifically says that it must be ” in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States”. Please tell me what specific dispute or contraversy between the United States and Kenya that Obama sought to modify? Under your logic, any private citizen who supports someone for the Prime Minister of England would be in violation of the Logan Act. So, please tell me. If I say that I support David Cameron for Prime Minister of England, does that put me in violation of the Logan Act? Should I fear that Government Agents will come and arrest me because I said that I support David Cameron? What about if I said that I supported Ed Millibrand? Ed Millibrand is obviously the leader of the opposition in the Parliment of Great Britian. Therefore he is the enemy of the ally of the United States, giving him Aid and Comfort, should I expect people to come and say that I’m committing Treason.
Even if what you said was true (it’s not), it is utterly absurd to claim that giving support to someone who is a political enemy of the leader of a government that the United States claims as an ally is “providing aide and comfort to the enemy”. It’s a stretch at best.
Again, you might want to look at Article 802 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Barack Obama is not military, and therefore is not subject to it. The Military is run by Civilians, not Military. Barack Obama is a civilian. So, how can he have violated a law that he’s not subject to?
And before you say that he’s not really President, then he’s really not subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice, because if he’s not President, then he’s not CIC, and therefore has no connection to the Military.
1. Obama is not Military, and therefore is not Subject to the
ALL “natural-born citizens” are born on US Soil and have parents who were BOTH Americans at the time of their birth.
Otherwise they are NOT “natural-born citizens”.
Naturalized citizens are NOT the same as Natural-Born citizens.
“Anchor babies” may be “citizens” but they are NOT Natural-Born “Citizens”.
Funny…
Here’s what the Supreme Court says:
“There is no common law of the United States, in the sense of a national customary law, distinct from the common law of England as adopted by the several States each for itself, applied as its local law, and subject to such alteration as may be provided by its own statutes. . . . There is, however, one clear exception to the statement that there is no national common law. The interpretation of the Constitution of the United States is necessarily influenced by the fact that its provisions are framed in the language of the English common law, and are to be read in the light of its history.”
So, the Supreme Court says that we should look to English Common Law for the definition of terms in the Constitution, not a treatsie on International Law.
Supreme Court disagrees with you…
Here’s something that was quoted by the Supreme Court in an actual case about citizenship.
“All persons born in the allegiance of the King are natural-born subjects, and all persons born in the allegiance of the United States are natural-born citizens. Birth and allegiance go together. Such is the rule of the common law, and it is the common law of this country, as well as of England. . . . We find no warrant for the opinion that this great principle of the common law has ever been changed in the United States. It has always obtained here with the same vigor, and subject only to the same exceptions, since as before the Revolution.”
Read the Article again, It says “Any person…”. My point has been made by you. Obama ,if he is not the bona-fides POTUS (CIC) IS a spy under stated provision of the UCMJ. Obama owed allegiance to the United States of America while he was a Senator and he owes it now. Odinga is an enemy of the USA due to the fact that he is connected to the bombing of two of our embassies. Obama has attempted to change the government of Kenya in collusion with Odinga. Odinga is an enemy of the United States as is the Muslim Brotherhood and related islamic terrorists groups which Odinga supports. The matter DID happen.It was documented by the BBC while Obama was campaigning in Kenya for Odinga. It would be tantamount to a Senator having gone over to Germany during WWII and having campaigned for HITLER!
This is a common misreading / mistranslation of Vattel’s treatise amongst birthers.
Even assuming that said treatise applies in this case (which in all likelihood is NOT the case, especially since Vattel does NOT use the term “natural-born citizen”), what Vattel says is that a child born in a Swiss family (“parens”, no T in the original, means blood relatives, not progenitors only) would be deemed to be Swiss. So according to Vattel, Obama would be a naturel or indigene, terms which you equate with that of natural-born citizen. In other words, Vattel infirms the birthers’ hypothesis, not confirms it.
(I write this as a French jurist with more than a passing expertise in Vattel’s writings.)
Also note the standard use of group plural; “only children whose parentS are members of the club may use the pool” does not mean that both parents must be club members; only one. This is true in French as well as in English.
I stand by my claim that McCain was born in Colon,Panama unless anyone can prove he was born at Coco Solo as others claim.
This is not france and this is NOT a “Club”
The matter was affirmed by the US Supreme Court that there is no doubt.
We cannot have every person merely born here allowed to be our leader.
“One born in a country of parents who are citizens”.
NOT JUST:
“One born in a country”
Well, you have demonstrated yourself as incapable of accepting or admitting your errors, but they are easy enough to point out, just the same.
Your entire notion of what is required for NBC is flawed on its face and not supported in any reality of our laws at all. I don’t have to prove you wrong here, as the courts have repeatedly rejected all such crazy claims by you folks.
So hey, keep ranting…but back in the real world, he remains and will continue to remain President because he’s NBC and anyone else born on US soil will be able to run for that same office as well.
Yet none of these real world institutions is going along with pursuing your POV and your sad bitter little agenda…
…nor will they.
…sucks to be you.
FALSE.
TRUE. Then again, I haven’t seen any serious person disagree with this, nor have I seen anyone actually claim that naturalized citizens were the “same” as NBC. So, you are making an unnecessary and irrelevant statement here, which no one else has claimed.
Sorry, but they are NBC by mere virtue of their birth here on US soil. Since NBC is merely a subset of citizen, they are of course citizens as well. Their parents are not, but the “anchor babies” themselves certainly are. You may not like it and may disagree and wish it were otherwise, but that IS how the law is and has been applied in those particular situations.
Like Obama’s false BC that HE placed on the Internet,for example.
G, You are ignorant of the Law on this matter.
This sort of thing happened in the USSR. Remember Nikita Kruschev? He SAID that Commies would usurp the USA without a shot.
See Section 906 Article 106 of the UCMJ.
Despite the “forgery” crowd, it is scanned image his staff put up so the citizens could see it and not as official evidence. The only people who think the scanned PDF is “evidence” are the birthers. The official evidence that the Begley and Tepper submitted was a verification, sent directly from Hawaii.
On a second note, “Offenses against the laws of nations” is Book 4, Chapter 5 of Sir Williams Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws of England. So does this mean that Blackstone was incorporated into the Constitutions?
You really sound like a fool.
Wow, the USSR must really be laughing at us now.
I wouldn’t worry. No one has ever been prosecuted under the Logan Act (and I very much doubt that it is constitutional).
On what basis do you make that claim? Without a source, your curious belief is not worthy of regard.
Just on the face of it, one would expect that a military wife would give birth at a military facility. McCain says he was born at the base. His MOTHER said he was born at the base. His birth certificate says he was born at the base. A contemporary newspaper announced his birth on the base. Duh. For example:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/mccain_announcement_041708.pdf
Birthers, sheesh.
I find your faith in the wisdom and prophetic powers of a Communist like Khrushchev disturbing.
Don’t blame G. He’s just repeating what all the courts and the constitutional experts say.
Obama did not campaign for Odinga.
I case you wondering why your comment was placed in moderation, it was because you used the word “Hitler.” That word triggers moderation for everybody. That filter has, in practice, served no useful purpose, so I have decided to remove it.
Now if I could just figure out a filter that can distinguish between fact and nonsense (such as the comment proceeding)…
So, any luck getting action based on your fantasy conspiracy theories? I didn’t think so. That’s because your notion of “treason” (and of the facts for that matter) doesn’t square with the legal definition or the popular definition.
Mr. Laity apparently thinks Obama playing golf is a crime.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/55526614/FBI-Complaint-Obama
a) Lupin is right
b) you are wrong
c) the US Supreme Court never affirmed what you are claiming. No one is going to stop Rubio from running. You are wrong and your logic is pathetic.
d) You might try to outvatellize Jindal (because he sure as hell did not have a relative who was a citizen) but I tell you now it is not going to work. Because Vattel is not the law of the land. If you want to stop Jindal, you stand a far better chance when taking him at his word on personhood. If he really believes lifes does not start at birth, but at conception, Jindal is not NBC, because he was not conceived on US soil. You are wrong and your approach is stupid.
The error is that your definition does not exist. It is a made up definition used by a few people who believe as you do, but has no other application. The error is that you believe such a definition without any actual or substantial reference.
The few references you use or may use are also meritless, such as your mention of Vattel being incorporated into the Constitution. This is error.
At best, at best, you have adopted an extremely minor opinion, an opinion that has been judged meritless but irregardless of that judgement, a minor, unaccepted opinion at best, and that insubstantial opinion, that house of sand, is what you build your misplaced righteousness on. That is not only error.
Yes, justice will prevail. Birthers will not. You will go to your grave and Obama will still have been president until 2017. No judge in the last four years has ever agreed with your definition of natural born citizen, and none ever will. Birthers have failed in over 100 court cases and will continue to fail. Nothing will happen.
Yes, we can.
would that everything came with such a filter … but it would be almost useless unless it could also recognize a “poe” — that is, be able to distinguish mockery from lunacy.
John McCain was not born on US soil.
Colon or Coco Solo, makes no difference. Neither was US soil at the time of his birth, yet he is a Natural Born Citizen, because he had two citizen parents. If you are not born on US soil, then and only then does the status of your parents have any bearing on the matter.
Elisabeth Minor was a natural born citizen because she was born in U.S. soil. She also happens to have had two US citizen parents but because she was born on U.S. soil her parents’ status is irrelevant.
Barrack Obama is a natural born citizen because he was born in U.S. soil. He also happens to have had one US citizen parents but because he was born on U.S. soil his parents’ status is irrelevant.
Wong Kim Ark was a natural born citizen because he was born in U.S. soil. He also happens to have had zero US citizen parents but because he was born on U.S. soil his parents’ status is irrelevant.
There were very popular radio priests campaigning for Hitler during WWII. Charles Caughlin was worse than Beck and the Faux news guys combined, maybe even as bad as Coulter.
ReeSo Bobby dear, apart from whining that Ankeny doesn’t agree with your wholly unsupported set of theses, care to slow us a single solitary court case, supreme court ruling, supreme court case, constitutional amendment, etc from the last 100 years that supports your personal view?
I have already pointed out that Happersett does not support you in any way means or form and that Wong Kim Ark EXPLICITLY states that in the eyes of the Constitution an individual born on the soil without any citizen parents can run for president.
Then we have Perkins v Elg another Supreme Court case which again EXPLICITLY states that the citizenship of a child cannot be altered or taken away by the parents no matter the acts and actions they may take. It even states how if by the parents actions it results in the child gaining dual nationality it STILL cannot affect there NBC status.
So, no help there……I know, what about that Vattel fetish of yours. I mean since you seem to feel he basically wrote the Constitution, when the rest of his beliefs must also be in things Constitution. You know the fact that only the nobility may own or possess firearms. Or what about the divine rights of kings or rapine and kidnapping as a legitimate way to bolster a nations breeding stock. What, they aren’t in the Constitution,…?
What about where in stanza 212 where he states that in some countries, mentioning England by name he states that birth on the soil makes an NBC
Looks like you’re SOOL you LSOS.
we don’t.
only those who win the electoral count are allowed to become president.
I am an eye witness to events surrounding President Obama’s birth at Forbes air force Base hospital , now in Topeka Ks. After the racial hate crime attack against his parents that left three dead in Kans river the, the authorities would not investigate and turned on his pregnant mother to get her to shut up and stop searching the river for body. ( later on all three washed up on a sand bar) She had had to getaway from her mother’s relatives at Westboro Baptist and authorities searched for her Dad’s relatives, difficult as Stanley Dunham was a stolen Id so he could go to war when too young. The real one directed them to her paternal grandparents, Popes, in Co. and the contacted my parents her grandmother’s brother Rev Tracy Hardy. Due to social stigma of the day to be unmarried, n my Dad arranged and married Obama’s as he wanted to stay in USA. They did not live together. Marriage at Washburn U a couple of months before birth. My mother took Ann to the hospital to have him now part of Topeka Ks. Orly Taitz and Sheriff Joe will not go after the real documents to solve all this. There was no witness protection program and by Fall of 1963 his maternal grandmother had all this fake bio in place and he was not told the truth. in !/71 I had a chance to mention Topeka Ks to him and His grandmother was desparate to stop me and went into a racial tirade. She feared her own relatives… more is my opinion and may be persons of interest in murder. In 2008, i supported McCain as another relative by marriage and VP is another relative whom is another relative. I tried for over a year to get birthers to go after truth which disproves Ha and Kenya and many witnesses who were in a gossip frenzy that led to a deadly end and all mention stopped for 50+ years when bodies went under the water. Even the newspaper would not go check archives for records and Ms Quinn needs to be asked why?I don’t live in area and some I did call seem terrified to get involved. Still an open murder investigation, the real ‘cold case’. Ii began posting on my pwn sites 7/26/12 as the gossip frenzy got worse and isn’t going to be settled by tose birthers not going after the truth. I continued in Daily Recaps since as its about the hot and deadly war in Ks 50+ years ago for integration, unlike in the Deep South where it was a visible. In Ks it was invisible D Marinessand others admitted they had the truth but didn’t publish it. Why? No evidence Pres knows yet. Although I e-mailed my postings to White house and campaign and no one ever told me to stop. Only issue of forgery for Pres is does he know and when? Children have to be told the basics of their origins as they might want to run for Pres someday . As far as I know , forgeries were done by family years ago who are deceased.Linda Joy Adams
Obama actually said that the Constitution “reflected the fundamental flaw of this country that continues to this day.”
First off, note the past tense. He was noting that the Constitution, as originally drafted, treated blacks as less than whole people. His offered opinion was that the marginalization of blacks is still a concern today, not that the Constitution necessarily remains flawed.
You might note that the Constitution as originally drafted has been amended several times. One might argue that these amendments were created and passed to fix… flaws. In fact, Obama pointed out that the amendment process “”did allow some fundamental flaws to be addressed like slavery — abolished in the Thirteenth Amendment.” (emphasis mine)
Oh, except that wasn’t Obama; that was Chief Justice John Roberts.
Here’s another quote for you:
This was from noted Kenyan Marxist Condoleezza Rice.
Well, I can agree with that.
Wow!
But you left out the part about being injured by OsamaBin ladin (cq) in covered up attack on Jersey City Social Security Center in 1989. http://www.facebook.com/LindaJoyAdams
As Dr. C has pointed out before, we’ve implemented an interesting safeguard against this, called “elections.”
Perhaps a filter that used “word count over paragraph breaks” as a metric?
I’m not trying to take shots, merely speaking blunt truth.
Obama is President of the United States. And you are a racist loser, a lying piece of dog poo, filled with hate, bigotry, and bullsh!!tttt. You have no evidence on your side, but that doesn’t matter to you and your ilk – you just try to manufacture your own, to support your absurd and insane notions.
Seriously, go run after a bus.
100% disabled huh.
Fingers work fine.
But your brain, yup, disabled.
Again, read Section 802 of the UCMJ. It defines who exactly is subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Barack Obama doesn’t fall under them.
Then read it, and tell me where you think that Obama falls under would get you started. The UCMJ only is applicable to Military Personnel. Barack Obama is a Civilian, and not Military, therefore is not subject to the UCMJ. The fact that you cannot accept this to be fact shows a lot for your ability to reason.
As far as anything else.
We are not at war with Kenya. Show me where the declaration of war is? Show me where the authorization to use Military Force, or any thing that shows that we’re at war with Kenya. And in fact, you just argued that Kenya was a ally of the United States. So, even if your statement that Obama campaigned for one candidate over the other, it would not be like someone going over and campaigning for Hitler. It would be more like a someone saying that they support Winston Churchill over Neville Chamberlain.
But I digress, there is no evidence that Obama ever campaigned for either of the candidates in Kenya’s Presidential race. Now, both of them claimed to be cousins of Obama to boost their popularity, but Obama never made any sort of statement supporting one candidate over the other.
Everybody needs a hobby.
Hear, hear!
Sorry but no, you are completely incorrect. The Founders explicitly stated that US natural born citizenship is jus soli. Madison said so on the Floor of the First Congress. Vattel’s Law of Nations was not incorporated in any way at all into our Constitution. There has never been one single shred of support for any requirement that either parent needed to be a citizen. This is not in dispute.
Minor v Happersett says the opposite of your claim. The decision does not say that a natural born citizen is the child of two citizen parents, it says merely that the child born of two citizen parents is a natural born citizen, and that others may also be. As we know, the court settled the matter in the Wong case when the child of two parents for whom it was at the time ILLEGAL for them even to apply to become citizens is also a natural born citizen eligible to be president. The matter is closed.
Your problem with your erroneous reading of history is readily apparent. Study English and re-read the Minor case. You will discover your mistake.
On that I agree with you. Any person who lives in Tonawanda, NY should not be allowed to be president.
Of all the comprehension errors birthers make, this one continues to amaze me. I cannot see how anyone could imagine themselves capable of learning the law while making such a bizarre mistake. And for the record, the Constitution says “the Law of Nations” not ‘The Law of Nations.”
Nor can we have every person merely born here with two US citizen parents allowed to be our leader either.
Lindbergh did try to drum up support for Nazi Germany. It’s a historical record.
Father Coughlin: “When we get through with the Jews in America, they’ll think the treatment they received in Germany was nothing.”
Coughlin was a Nazi sympathizer.
If you tell me where you live, I’ll be happy to search for a board-certified physician who may be able to help you.
This is an illustration of the Tonawanda Disease.
And Ashkenazi, Apache, and Afrikaner, with a dash of Old Order Amish thrown in for good measure.
At least he doesn’t have unicorn DNA, like Willard Romney.
Except Tonawanda, NY.
What is this? I Googled and couldn’t find anything. Is it those teenage girls who all started twitching?
You will have to go to Topeka Ks to find the birth certificate. But The REAL DAD was native born American. His murder and later marriage to Obama Sr for convenience of both arranged by my Dad all took place before birth. The whole community knew who he was and the main media had the truthful story and didn’t use it. The husband being Dad is a rebuttable presumption. In this case, Obama knew he was not..Those behind the birther movement could end this as Orly Taitz needs to ask for the court order from the judge. BUT three dead and no justice for 50+ years and murderes have gone free all this time if not deceased themselves might get opened as a racial hate crime on his parents. I’ve posted this on line at blogger, twitter and facebook starts 7/26/12 and in Daily Recaps since. of eye witness account. you are going to learn others in high office may not know who they really are either. Maybe DNA is going to be needed on our candidates?
The farce is strong with this one….
Do you know what an eye witness is? No Farce , TRUTH! I WAS THERE! The whole world has beewn fooled! And the big moneuy that owns big mnedia knew all alonfg what I am saying/ See my sites. Forbes aor force base hospital is where my mother took the President’s mother to have him from our home in Topeka Ks. No time to fly to hawaii or Kenya as Ann’s water broke in the car. Some one mat still own that 1948 fleetline chevy as my parents Rev Tracy and Florence Hardy sld it as an antique ib late1980’s from RR Paxico ks where they had moved to. Back seat stuffing still may have DNA . Its behind the Driver’s side. Mom cleaned it the best she could the next day!
Asinine statement. Tonawanda,NY is US Soil.
Alinsky tactics don’t work on me!
Prescott Bush. Look him up…Hitler’s Banker. Obama and Bush are in the same cabal.
Your example IS the required status of A president. He/She MUST be born on US Soil and MUST have Parents who were both Americans at the time of his/her birth.
You are an airhead!
You are an airhead also.
What we “need” is a real President.
The sad part is that i suspect you really do believe you were there.
Apparently birther delusions do.
Don’t forget the Invisible Pink Unicorns. For the love of God, don’t forget the Invisible Pink Unicorns.
I wonder why nobody ever knew about this two citizen parent requirement before Leo Donofrio invented it in 2005?
Well that was certainly one of the more convincing legal arguments you’ve made here
We have one. Elected him twice, as a matter of fact. Of course there’s a handful of conspiracy loving nutbags that insist he’s not eligible, but that’s not unsusual. There’s a handful of conspiracy loving nutbags that insist the world is flat. Nobody pays much attention to their ravings either.
Waiting on those cases and cites Bobby dear, you know the ones that state Vattel created the Constitution,, 2 citizen parents as a requirement etc, come on you must have SOMETHING….surely.
Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter III, Part I, 1401 (a) of U.S. Code says you’re wrong:
The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1401
Calling people airheads doesn’t prove your argument. It actually validates those who are arguing against you. Argue the point instead of namecalling.
Actually 2008,around October / November IIRC – it came after the initial COLB fuss, which was instigated by theories about Obama’s real middle name. Loren did a great timeline on the emergence of the 2 parents theory, particularly on FR, and it is absolutely devastating to anyone who claims to have been taught it in high school civics.
Pure hokum. The US is a democratic republic, which means the supreme and unltimate authority is the people, expressing their will at the polls. They, and only they, select the President. Not internet screed writers nor robed judges nor any other appointed or self-appointed body.
Here is what the 12th Amendment says “The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President”. That is the ultimate and final word on the subject and all that a President requires to hold office.
Your guys lost. If you don’t like it, then go blame the American people, because that is who made the call. In fact, these days, that seems to be the entire strategy of those on the right. Good luck with that…
I will leave to American attorneys here to argue what the US Supreme Court said or did not say.
What I am telling you is what Vattel said, without any ifs or buts. I’m an expert on the subject.
Vattel never said that a child needed to have two parents who were citizens in order to be (what you assume to be) a “natural born citizen. In fact, he said quite the opposite.
Now, your Supreme Court might have said differently, but not Vattel. Not in The Law of Nations. Not anywhere else.
PS: Vattel was Swiss, not French.
Why not? The U.S. Code says otherwise.
Also Robert, why do you not bring up Jus Soli?
Vattel states on page 101 of his book: “Finally, there are states, as, for instance, England, where the single circumstance of being born in the country naturalizes the children of a foreigner.”
As it turns out, America is just such a nation, according to our U.S. Code of Law.
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/03/de-vattel-for-dummies/
The idea that the authors of the Constitution adopted a definition for the term ‘natural born citizen” purportedly from de Vattel because another section uses the term “law of nations” is just silly. First, the wording in Article I, Section 8 is
“Of Offenses against the Law of Nations” just happens to be the title of Book Four Chapter Five of Blackstone’s Treatises on English Law. Blackstone was of course someone every legal scholar in the Colonies had read and understood so if this section referred to a single work it would almost certainly have been Blackstone and not de Vattel. While it is likely Blackstone dissertation and list of the “law of nations” was to what the authors had in mind it was a term of art whose meaning was understood in the context of the time just as the term natural-born citizen was understood to be rooted in English common law.
Mr. Laity’s behavior here, and the various court cases dealing with him being reprimanded due to his mouth, reminds me of this one guy riding the train one day. He would call people and rudely demand they pick him up at the station. When they would say no, he would start berating them, yelling and swearing at them. When they would hang up, he would call somebody else and repeat the same game. From his discussions with his spouse (or friend, I am not sure which), he appeared clueless as to why none of friends were going to help him.
Poor Robert here does not get that how you approach and discuss with people will affect how they respond. He is also completely oblivious to when somebody is being sarcastic at his expense.
Mr. Laity, if you want to learn to be a lawyer (or a researcher), you need to learn to listen.
Arab? How so?
“Arab” is the first four letters of “Bara-ck” backwards, don’t you know? No need to be embarrassed; a lot of people miss that one.
Being a vet doesn’t automatically make you a saint. Nor does it make what you have to say infallible. People like Terry Lakin and Walter Fitzpatrick are proof that just because you wore the uniform, doesn’t mean you are due respect. Your conduct while wearing that uniform is what determines your respectability.
You’re a ‘Nam vet? So is my father-in-law, and despite being a staunch conservative, he respects the President.
Oh well, you don’t always get what you need. Sometimes you only get what you got. But keep plucking that chicken, Mr. Laity; I’m sure it gives you a lot of pleasure.
I’ll wager that Laity gets the words “real” and “white” confused all the time.
Interesting story, bro! Now listen to me play “Wonderwall.”
Man, I love Barack Obama fanfiction. But you might want to work on cleaning up your grammar and spelling.
Folks like Robert have trouble separating religion from race. Since they wrongly believe the President is an ebil mooslim, he father has to be an AyRabbb. They tend to miss the fact that that followers of Islam are not only Arab, but Persian (i.e. Iran), Turkish, Indian, African , various far east followers, and even Caucasian. He probably would be confused with the concept of Arab Christians.
Did you read the one where he, and that fellow what sells the propane and propane accessories, save Christmas? It wasn’t as good as “President Obama meets El Santo!”, but it wasn’t half-bad.
No, but it sounds funny.
TRUTH is not a story. I was there! Were you? Remember the main media and the big money behind the birther movement knows this! I am not for or against political. Those who don’t like the president for his politics, please do exercise your free speech as Congress hasn’t stood up and overturned many things many think they should have. i f you go to my sites on blogger, twitter and face book, starts 7/26/12 and in Daily recaps since i have tried to explain the circumstances that led to the fake bio. There was no witness protection program them, and the one passed a decade later in many ways was modeled after some of the things his maternal grandmother did. yes the b/c is a forgery but it was done by Fall of 1963 and President was never told the truth, maybe to this day. I had one chance in 1/71 and was stopped by his maternal grandmother as she let out a racial tirade then left, taken him with her. He had just come form Indonesia and was using the name Barry Soetoro. he came to another cousins; home at mercer Island where Ann went to finish High School if you check that web site you will see someone went on it and tried to put Stanley Ann done as graduating sooner to make her appear older when she was 15 when she had him at Forbes air force base Hospital, now part of Topeka KS. I didn’t get involved in this in 2008 as I was not aware it was being circulated. i had supported another candidate and inlaw on my mother;s side and his VP a relative on my dad’s side and relative of Pres Obama. My family has been so spit and hurt by all this and My aunt and Uncle Pope, his great grandparents said it was Toots his grandmother;s doing and they were good people very saddened by the socialistic views of her family. Some of thier descendants didn’t even know where about s of Daniel Wayne Pope over this. Stanley Dunham was a stolen ID and wallet by him to go to war as he was too young. Ks authorities verified this in trying to find some paternal relatives to take gdnshp as they wanted to shut the eyewitness to three dead and she was out searching the Kansas river alone 15 and pregnant trying tot find the body of her baby;s Dad.and want; her shut up. Its why one can;t just give the facts of time and place, its the whole circumstances of the ugly and hidden fight for immigration in Toepka S and in KS at that time. Too many bodies disappeared into that river over the years and no one would ever have believed her if they hadn’t washed up on a sand bar later. The City of Toepka still won;t face their past and Editor Quinn of the Toepka Capital Journal would not permit her reporters to go check their archives for the newspaper accounts of the time when i called as I wanted to re read it for other names and details to refresh my memory.as I had only focused on the Dads name at the time. I realized that even my Mom had had doubts about Ann;s account until then. Westboro baptist and Fred Phelps is interwoven in this as relatives of his maternal grandmother. and the nation is still dealing with their hatred.which has taken on another issue as racism is not acceptable.
The hatred to wards the president and how it manifested in other ways cost the Republicans the election when it was the party’s to lose. yet the Republican House just voted to take away more of our civil liberties so just whose money is behind all this?
VP Dick Cheny, soecond cousin didn;t give his real bio either. His mother was a Hunt, cousin of Hunt Oi founders and nephew of JB HUNT ( no\Dickey washis mother;s first husband;s name) Did he know and when did he know? Time for the truth to be told by all. Gary Har? Bill Clinton rea\lated to Ayers and VP Cheny? Is any one we eelct who they say they are? linda Joy Adams caught inthe cross hairs of all of this and going public to stay alive as too much turth is known. Truth is the only defense when so much is known.,
Linda, I’ll see your wall of text and raise you a glazed over look of disinterest!
Another great chapter of your fanfiction. When will you be putting out the next one? Also, could you please consider uploading the whole thing to fanfiction.net?
No I wasn’t there. But if you were then you should be able to give us some details…..details that can be verified.
I find Java heap dumps to be of much more interest and use.
Linda Joy Adams isn’t even her real name!
Its an alias, one of many! The list includes Kringelbert Fishtybuns, Steviebuns Bottrittrundle, Dindlebert Zindledack, and Vingelbert Wingledanck.
WHERE are the transcripts “Linda”?!
Not sure what that is, but it sounds delightfully naughty!
Yes. Yes, I was there. And everything you describe is accurate . . . to a point. Where I take issue with your report is when you say,
“I had one chance in 1/71 and was stopped by his maternal grandmother as she let out a racial tirade then left, taken him with her. He had just come form Indonesia and was using the name Barry Soetoro.”
It wasn’t a “racial tirade,” but a “bi-racial tiara”; i.e., Barry had made, from tri-colored macaroni, pebbles of various hues, and bits and pieces of broken beach glass, a tiara for his grandmother. However, as a communist, Mrs. Dunham eschewed jewelery and ostentatious display. After thanking the young Soetoro for the gift, she quietly wrapped it in tissue paper and set it aside. On a recent episode from Topeka of “Antiques Roadshow,” Kansas native Barry Sanders, who had purchased the tiara from Fred Phelps, discovered to his delight that the item is worth considerably more than he paid for it.
I hope that clears things up. Happy festivus!
Yes I was except it didn’t take place in Topeka Kansas but Honolulu Hawaii and your name wasn’t Linda Joy Adams back then it was Natasha Fatale
Except that’s not true at all as shown by Chester A Arthur
No, you were in an insane asylum, on the planet Jupiter.
You and He, Lying Lucas Smith, really need to hook up.
Seriously, are you making money off this crap, totally insane, or merely a liar?
I found some very interesting things fact about that man *wink* http://mirror.uncyc.org/wiki/Chester_Alan_Arthur
Holy shit! This Robitussin is making me lightheaded, but I’d rather have some of what Linda Joy is imbibing.
Facts don’t work on you.
You are completely incorrect. There is no such requirement for citizen parents. You cannot locate a single historical citation for any such ludicrous claim. Meanwhile, birth on US soil alone regardless of either parent’s citizenship has explicitly been declared to be the rule. SCOTUS settled it and the matter is closed.
This prompts a serious question. What process or authority is there that would enforce the Constitution’s provisions about eligibility? If someone ran for president who was only 33 years old whereas to be president one must be at least 35, who would step in if the people voted for and elected that person?
This is what I love about hypotheticals. One has to assume that, first, a major party would risk losing by nominating an illegible young candidate and then assume his opponent is either so bad lots of people decide to vote for the 33 year old or so stupid as to not mention it in the campaign.
I don’t care if the candidate’s illegible! 🙂 But seriously, what would that mechanism be? My guess is that it all rests with the Congress.
Congress could find the President-elect unquallified and install the Vice-President who would serve under the 20th Amendment until the President-elect turned 35. If they chose not to act, but, rather, to defer to the voters, as they could (one could argue ether way as to what they SHOULD do) then there would be a 33 year-old President and he/she would be just as valid a President as all the rest.
The idea that there would be some crime or treason in this situation or any other situation in which a duly elected office holder served despite failing to meet some legal technicality is the kind of absurd over-statement that Birthers indulge in quite regularly, which is part of why no one takes them seriously. Because, it is a fact that a few Representatives and Senators, including one of the giants of the Senate, Henry Clay served while too young to qualify under the Constitution and did so when many of the founders were still alive and quite a few were in Congress. This at least suggests that the eligibility requirements were never intended to be the be-all and end-all that the Birthers claim.
So, it isn’t clear that there is any enforceable law in this area, especially not one that could over-ride the will of the voters, which, in my opinion, deserves to be honored. Because if one proposes to ignore the will of the voters, then why bother with the cost and inconvenience of an election at all?
I refer you to my article:
“How we insure our presidents are eligible.”
However, before getting too far into hypotheticals, I should point out that the existing system we have has never been known to fail.
No, I was not there. I did not see it. I missed it entirely. I was 11 years old and I was in another state.
So if there was no Hawaiian birth certificate in 1961, how did Obama’s birth appear in the 1961 Honolulu newspaper lists of health bureau statistics and why is he in the 1961 Hawaii birth index?
Are you in any way related to Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter?
In the final check, Congress would.
I am almost feeling sorry for the Birthers- the last ones left appear to be loons off of their meds.
A birther making the solitary claim that Obama was not born in the United States seems ridiculous.
But when you start hearing the bizarre elaborations and claims as to what the law ‘really’ means…..well then you start seeing that these people are not just merely lying anti-Obama activists- they are truly delusional.
Less than 25% of the world’s muslims live in arab countries or are of direct first generation arab descent. A reality of which the likes of Laity seem to have no tangible concept. Alas as a born and bred Brit who just happens to have lived a very large proportion of each of nearly all of my last 40 working years in arab countries, it is an ignorance which I have found to be widespread and is far from being confined to just birthers.
I googled “There is no Robert Christopher Laity” and it brought me right back here. Woooo, scaaaaary!
Well, duh. We don’t even have two. Just one at a time. Did you miss that whole election thingy?
That’s what you think! That just shows you don’t know nothin’ about that Alinsky feller.
To Dr. Conspiracy: I have written about this on my sites since 7/26/12 of what I know first hand. After my Mother took Ann to have him; my Dad was on the phone calling various people. No one talked after Ann left for Mercer Island, except when bodies washedup andf whole state of Ks was, but not those in Topeka. Fall of 1963. my Aunt (Dad’s sister. Millard Dell and Helen pope. They were making rounds of family members to let them know details of fake bio. All Toots ddoing , his maternal grand mother according to her. It had all been set up in Hawaii, by her. My Mother asked Aunt Helen how the name Dunham came from and she said stolen wallet from when Dan had gone to work in Liberal Ks and used itto get into war as too young. They were on way to liberal Ks to cover thibngs there. Its never been vclear, but Stanley Dunham may have been a relative of my Uncle Millard, her husband. It became a life long charade and I never agreed to it , It was on the way out the dooor Aunt Helen et slip details of my own origins. Its why one can’t just give the dates and places, too convoluted and the fight for integration was a hot war but invisible.
Linda Joy Adams:
Thank you for sharing your interesting story. At times it’s a little difficult to follow, but I’m sure it makes perfect sense to you. Merry Christmas!
Rothschilds vs the romanovs: old family feuds. Rothschilds though Pres Obama was one of theirs due to fake bio. When they learned the truth, they started the birther movement to get him out of office. Step by step coup d’etat since 1983 Dallas meeting!, and the one in the white House isn’t their line, except indierectly> Thats the conspiracy here/
Amazing how you can spell words like “convoluted,” yet at the same time, write so poorly.
I think you’re a fake. I don’t think you’re at an insane asylum on Jupiter, after all.
Yeah, I kinda’ suspected the Jews had something to do with it. Merry Christmas!
Here is a complete illustration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMOmB1q8W4Y
The problem is that you live in Tonawanda, NY.
Tonawanda is a Buffalo ‘burb. You should see it.
When I lived in Buffalo, I escaped every weekend to Toronto. I missed civilization.
You Can’t Always Get What You Want –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbjZA3aAH3s
If one thing is clear is why few eye witnesses are willing to come forward. Many call names, yet have not bothered to read any postings. I MAKE NO MONEY. I am trying to stay alive as caught in cross hairs of presidents, vice presidents and candidates for such on both sides of parents in last thirty years and Telling the truth is only way for all to be set free. My own birth origins are convoluted, too. But I am Linda Joy Adams and my bio is not kept hidden as its posted. Went public on advice of legal 12/08 over all the corruption including a “let her die” order from highest levels. I have eye sight problems and spell check not always reliable.
If one notices, very few commenter’s are eye witness to anything. The cover up in Topeka Ks of three murders is at the root of all this. My understanding is that Natural father born in Al, but he was a military kid, too.
If one thinks back, where did you learn of your own origins? Your family and why would you question you were being told the truth?
Getting to the issues surrounding the birth and reasons for fake bio, etc is going to lead to unraveling a 100 years of intrigue that some don’t want or they would go get the court order from KS? Merry Christmas!
Fascinating twist to your Obama fanfiction, Linda! More, please.
I was kidnapped by aliens. They wanted me to teach them how to buy wholesale.
I opened a roach motel. I got reservations from Buffalo.
As an officer in the International Jewish Conspiracy™, I can confirm this is true.
FIFY
This clip is far more appropriate, cosidiering the toddler-like mentality of most birfters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymlNZh0Zw70
The difference being, that a real toddler will absorb the lesson.
i have gotte lot of horrible things siad and its no wonder many eye witnesses will not come forward to share what they know as an eye witness. if any had bothered to read the postings on blogger, facebook or twitter starts 7/26/12 and in daily recpas sicne then you would be asking specific question about the detials if you were really interested in the truth. millions have been made over speucaltiosna d false stores and some bery malicious whent the turth is a horirifec hate crime that left a prengnant girl with no one to marry and a baby with no father to raise him.mureres have gone froee for 50= years and persons of intersts have become well known for theri terrifying ways.
there is two thinkgs correct about this speculaition and i don;t know the source. she did marry obama sr in topeka ks at mcvicar chapel on washburn university campus with some black soroty members in attendance about two months before birth . theyu did not live toegheter it was so she could have amrriage certifiecate and he to stay in usa. no issue of adodption was ever mentioned and my parents had charge. ann had a live in job at the catholic textbook warehouse and store in downtown topeka ks. so she never went to kenya, nor did they live together as my mother took her to the hospital to thave him.
rember the main media and david mariness have now admitted that thiey had the truth of this.
the other thing that is correct is her leaving Topeka ks, after birth and going to Mercer Island, Washington to finish highschool and my cousin’s wife baby sat,.Mrs Roland Hackett.
Birthers don;t like me as they have made millions off of their movement and a false story from kenya, which has been fueled by him not being told the truth of his origins. and those who don;t care about the turth and may have spent more millions creating a cover up as they apparently were believing the fake story , not knowing , or trying to find the truth of being a mamber of the family of one of the more famous persons of the civil rights movements on one side whose extended family had to flle the deep south due to theri part in it. And the great great grandson of czar nicholas ii and alexandria on the other was not wanted as it would expose a 100 years of false bios and fake ids for protecton for their lives. TRUTH IS WHAT I A DEALING WITH AND I;M SORRY THIS SITE ISN;T WANTING ANY OF IT. BUT REMEMBER THEBLOODOF THREE DEAD CRIES OUT FROM THE GROUND OF THE BANKS OF THE KANSAS RIVER FOR OVER 50 YEARS AND IF WE KEEP IGNORING JUSTICE AND COVERING IT UP AND DEFAMING EYE WITNESSES.i filed an affidavit with the STATE OF KS AND PENT OVER AN HOUR ON THE PHONE ASHE STAFF LOCATED RECORDS. then orly taitz dosn;t ask for the ourt order for them and end all this, but the millions made form thefilm released in 10/12 might not have been made . its all about the money behind all this.and those making money want none of truth. so as you make fun and jokes, remember the young man who died saving the life of his unborn child all because of racial hatred over an interracial couple. I am looking for others that have some eye witness info to share for justice.I’m sorry some of those on this site are not seriious about the truth. For that check out my sites. I was hoping to find more eye witnesses on yours. Linda Joy Adams . .
As many here can affirm, I have, on several occasions, stated that I was present at President Obama’s birth. However, the birth I attended was in Honolulu, not Kansas. I am confident of this fact, because I remember the palm trees outside the hospital and I am quite certain they don’t have palm trees in Kansas.
Does that mean I am disputing your account? Not at all. There is no reason he couldn’t have been born in both places. People need to expand their horizons a bit. Anyway, what does it matter? The whole birther thing is nonsense, since the presidency is simply an elected office and the guy with the most votes wins. Simple. Birth and parentage are irrelevant. The birthers have spent milllions of dollars trying to hide that fact. That alone is suspicious.
So, you relax dear, and have a terrific 2013.
I really believe you are a fake insane asylum escapee. not a real one. You must not be getting enough attention at your usual polluted habitats, so now you’re here.
Lady, guy, whatever you are – your story is BS, and you are not funny. You lack honor and integrity, and I wish nothing good in life for you.
I am interested in the truth, Linda, but your postings have been so full of details and scholarly insights, that I literally have no questions. You’re vocbullary and speling, sintax, grammer, and stile have not only amazed me, but kept me in the dark. Figuratively! Having spelled it all out for us, I don’t see the need to continue. Consider this job finished. Congratulations!
Lol looks like Linda joy Adams has been everywhere and known everyone from her Google+ profile some interesting fiction:
Introduction age 3, 1948: named Peace Corps and 1000 Points of Light age4, 1949: named Head Start summer 1954: named Affirmative Action/ to compy with question by US Supreme court as to whether children of dirrent races would play together the ‘exeriment’ occurred at the summer recreation program at Randolph grade school David Kay and i acted as hosts and got everyone playing together. david got the ball for foursquare and i was one of the firs tin line to play’ I left the court and motioned for a child of color to take my place and I went to the back of the line. When asked, on cameralater why I did that I said ” I took affirmative action” the words came from? 1954: International nuclear inspection concept given to David Kay and warned him when he became a nuclear inspector he’d had to ‘sneak out the back door’ anything he might find, and in 1992 he did just that in Iraq 1958: name ‘grassy knoll’ in Dallas when I experienced exactly what President Kennedy did on 11/22/63 saying It’s an ambush! as my family was on vacation traveling in front of the Book depository in Dallas ans my mom wrote to the city to make sure all the brush was cleared from the ‘grassy knoll; as it could be an ambush. 12/88, stepped out of work site @ SSA JCTSC to go to restroomand ‘caught’ osma Bin laden with stolen keys to ADP building with plastic taped on finger tips ( print areas) and Marty Reis’s stolen keys heading down to where ADP did wall street investment area which was locked and high secured area and he goes for his ‘famous” scarbe under his shirt’ to attack me fatally and all of a sudden he didn’t as i had restarted our last conversation of 7/88 on his last day of work after the day SSA, Delores Bryant and breached security and gave him and 21 other new hires ( none of which had had background checks down yet) access to the entire ssadata base which included access to not only all ssn’s and earnings, but pension, bank account, other fed benefist, dividend info that our system accessed without adequate firewall protection which microsoft installed in the ’90’s on all in USA: This was as he stood staring at the Twin Towers that could be seem from a window near my desk. 1989 injured in first terrorist attack when Osama Bin laden came in to Jersey City Teleservice center SSA where i worked to pic up his HHS W-2 told by sources its my blood and skin samples in the 503c “John Doe” indictment against him as I was the only one allowed any kind of testingor treatment at local hospitals as Govt cover up began immediately This is the pre curser to 9/11 and 9/11 commission asked for records and FBI destroyed my witness statements before they met and they only went back to 1995 on incidents in USA, thus missing info on original terror ‘cells’ 6/1989: Named Street News in New York City and had to intervene to prevent its closure in 1990 by threatening to take it back for malfeasance of use of ‘trade rights to name’ 8/89: told that my Federal workers comp acceptance was one of 6 precedent cases in USA on toxic and chemical exposures which has been aburden as it pitted me upagainst a legal conumdrum with the tobacco industry as the research on such injuries was done as part of the Tobacco research at National istitutites of health. ( I’m never been a smoker nor work or live around second hand in my home or work site since HHS stopped this in 1970’s. 6/68 through 10/94 wrote many precedent setting special determinations at SSA as part of job that are now, regulations and rules for all of us. Currently in a life and death struggle for medcal care as every pending/current federal file in various agencies has gone ‘missing’ with multiple favorable remand orders in them from various federal judges.( gone missing) TODAY! asking for prayers as the top officials at SSA meet to discuss a favorable outcome on all pending matters that will assure my right to medical care and all benefits awarded be processed/ paid which can never replace good health. Much more has occurred in my 65 years including consider miracles that have kept me and my family alive and at least with a roof over our heads and food on the table. I give YAHUWAH?YAHUSHA the GLORY! ( whom most call God and Christ) Linda Joy Adams
Linda is America’s Ionesco, and her posts make “The Bald Soprano” positively lucid.
As I read that bio, what popped into my head was “Run, Forrest. Run”.
Arthur, please learn how to quote correctly. I did not say those words, “Linda” did.
She reminds me more of Lucky in Waiting for Godot.
So you concede the Rothschilds lost the feud? Because this doesn’t sound like a strong move to make, rather like throwing rice against a titanium wall.
That the Rothschilds lost? What a pity, I loved the red wine so much. When did the Romanovs ever come up with a replacement?
I was being facetious – obviously, that were no satellite cell phones in 1961.
…. now that’s real entertainment! Birfers: take note!
BIRTHERS YOU KNOW HE WAS BORN IN TOPEKA KS AND ALLTHE TRUTH. YET YOU WENT OUT WITH YOUR LIES AN MADE MILLIONS BY InCITING THE MASSES11 you must be some that are blol
blogging on this site.i’m not a birther.. please check definition of eye winess. i’m looking for those. do you know any/
I think you want to look elsewhere for eyewitnesses to corroborate your story. I don’t remember anyone here claiming Obama was born in Kansas. A lot of folks here believe the records indicating Obama was born in Hawaii.
You know who you remind me of? Butterdezillion. Why don’t you drop her an email? Her website is http://butterdezillion.wordpress.com/. She tends to post a lot at Free Republic too – http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/naturalborncitizen/index. She’s absolutely sure that Obama’s birth certificate is a fake. Talk to her.
No, you either are or should be a mental patient. Seriously, get help.
You’re a fake, just like “John.”
Do not feed the trolls!
Wow, the crazy in this one is completely out of control. Call the paramedics.
There is more. This is from her profile on Linked In.
Transferred to OWCP/ US Dept of labor jurisdiction 10/11/1994. permanent Disability request pending since 1996 on a 1/10/1989 with multiple injures and deaths at the Jersey City Social Security teleservice center, 2 Journal Square Jersey City , N.J. 9TH floor. ( they have since moved) personnel file official housed at SSA regional office, 26 federal plaza NY, NY. ) On 1/9/89 Osama Bin Ladin came in to pick up his w-2, exited a ‘secured stairlwell’ and over the next 24 hours toxic fumes increased and intermingled with other chemicals and gradually more areas of employees were overcome as the ventilation was disconnected. The FBI was denied the right to investigate. OSHAwas lied to initially as all were ordered to have treatment denied at the local hospitals. As the,only one, due to the wrong Employer listed on my admissions chart, i got diagnostic tests run and being nearly dead was being prepared for admission when the mixup on employer was discovered and I was sent home to die as my other co- workers had been. Rushed back to another hospital, admitted and Washington ordered me denied treatment, rushed to hospital again and lay near death for 8 days. Federal workers have no ‘legal right of life’ when corrupt entities flex their muscles. Al Quada has the entire SSA data base because HHS OIG wouldn’t stop the security breach by Delores Bryant who logged 22 new hires that hadn’t gone through required security checks onto a system that had no security in 7/88 as most do know. our system, at that time, could access more personal info on persons than even IRS. he said he was from Saudi Arabia with an American mother and was a citizen with 2 years of CIA employment and introduced himself by is correct name which most of us couldn’t pronounce and he said: CALL ME SAM. When , in the late 90’s it became known he was Terrorist #1, i did my best to stop 9/11 and no one would listen to me or others! he used to stand 10′ from my desk and stare at the world trade center.
Whoa.