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Baby Obama delivered by neighbor?

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The Lucas Smith image, purporting to be a Kenyan birth certificate for Barack Obama shows the attending physician as James O. W. Ang’awa. That’s not a made-up name. There really was such a physician in Kenya, and one of some note. Unfortunately for our purposes and for his family as well, he was murdered  some 40 years ago.

What is interesting from the conspiracy theory point of view, a view always looking for connections, is the fact that Ang’awa was a neighbor of Barack Obama, Sr. according to a recent article at Kenya’s leading newspaper, The Nation.

Is this a remarkable coincidence? Well, if the birth certificate is a fake (and it most likely is), then the faker could have chosen any name he wanted and put it on the certificate, including one that had some connection to Barack Obama, Sr. Of course, whatever travel fancies may exist, Barack Obama, Sr. was going to college when his son, the future president, was born, and not residing near Dr. Ang’awa. That must have come later.

Kenya’s “The Nation” newspaper states that Dr Ang’awa was the director of the national anti-tuberculosis  unit at the ministry of Health at the time of his death around 1970. In 1951 and 1952, Ang’awa published two articles related to medical complications related to childbirth. But by 1959 he was publishing articles about the treatment of tuberculosis at the Port Reitz Chest Hospital (in Mombasa). At the time of his death in 1970, Ang’awa was head of the national anti-tuberculosis  unit at the ministry of Health.

So far, I haven’t been able to find any evidence that Dr. Ang’awa was delivering babies in 1961. Some have suggested that Ang’awa’s name came from an 1966 Journal of Tropical Pediatrics paper by him. There is an image floating around the Internet showing that journal article accompanied by two inked infant footprints (remarkably similar to the ones on the Smith certificate); however, I have not been able to locate an original image that includes this journal article and the footprints and have some doubts that it is authentic. It rather looks like someone took the journal article and pasted the footprint from the Smith certificate on them, flipping one copy. Given that the topic of the article is tuberculosis prevention, focusing on school age children, inked baby footprints don’t make a lot of sense.

The Lucas Smith certificate is discussed in my article: Latest filings in Barnett v Obama.

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281 Responses to Baby Obama delivered by neighbor?

  1. avatar
    NoVA Skeptic March 7, 2010 at 8:39 am #

    “…he was murdered some 40 years ago.”

    Whoa. Did you just uncover the starting point of the conspiracy? I am sure the birthers will latch on to this as yet another smoking gun of a vast cover up.

    Long time lurker, first time poster. Just can’t tolerate any more birther idiocy.

  2. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 9:16 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy said “Of course, whatever travel fancies may exist, Barack Obama, Sr. was going to college when his son, the future president, was born, and not residing near Dr. Ang’awa.”

    Tell me, Doc. Do you have any documentation to support that Obama Sr. was attending college in Hawaii during the summer of 1961? Most of us attended college during the spring and fall semesters, but you want us to believe that Obama Sr. went to college all year round (Even during the summer). Surely you can support this. Can’t you?

  3. avatar
    Kathryn N March 7, 2010 at 9:47 am #

    Haven’t you ever heard of summer semesters? Since Kenya was so far away from Hawaii, and Barack Obama Sr. had no money to go jaunting around the world, it would make perfect sense for him to stay in Hawaii, either to take summer courses or just to hang around. He was on scholarship, so his rent would probably have been covered. He might have been able to get a summer job as well.
    Occam’s Razor: the simplest explanation is usually the right one.

  4. avatar
    BatGuano March 7, 2010 at 10:06 am #

    Most of us attended college during the spring and fall semesters, but you want us to believe that Obama Sr. went to college all year round (Even during the summer). Surely you can support this. Can’t you?

    a quick google search will show that U of H , like most universities, has a summer term. whether BO sr attended the summer term or not, i don’t know.

  5. avatar
    Kathryn N March 7, 2010 at 10:12 am #

    I just read the article from the Kenyan newspaper. Barack Obama Sr. apparently lived in the same neighborhood, populated by government officials, as Dr. Ang’awa. This was in the early 70s. They were probably in Nairobi, since it’s the capital city. There is no indication that they were friends or had known each other before Barack Obama Sr. returned from the United States after studying at Harvard. There is also no mention that Dr. Ang’awa was ever an obstetrician. Apparently he was a research scientist specializing in the treatment of tuberculosis. Another birther fail.

  6. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 10:17 am #

    Kathryn N,

    Do you really believe that foreign students are TRAPPED in the country where they attend college until they complete their degree? These were humanitarian missions to provide education. Sir Ockham would disagree with your conclusion. The standard (in 1961) was for students to return home during the summer break. The same people that provided the transportation to Hawaii (likely the African American Students Foundation -headed by William Scheinman and Tom Mboya) would have likely provided return transportation (free of charge) during the summer break.

    If you want to know more about the student’s transportation, you could try to contact Wangari Maathai, winner of the 2004 Nobel Peace Prize, and a participant in the student airlift education.

  7. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 10:22 am #

    BatGuano,

    Don’t you think it would be important to find out if Obama Sr. attended the summer semester instead of just assuming that he may have? I would imagine that those records are available, and that Dr. Conspiracy would have requested them. That way he could have documentation to support a claim that Obama Sr. was “going to college when his son, the future president, was born”.

  8. avatar
    richCares March 7, 2010 at 10:29 am #

    so what?

  9. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 10:34 am #

    Kathryn N,

    What if there were some prior tie between Obama Sr. and Dr. Ang’awa? Would that make any difference to you?

    Do you really think a “research scientist” was sent to be the physician for the Kenyan Olympic Team in 1968?

    Do you think it is possible that physicians were not so specialized in 1961 Kenya? After all, the BC says “attending physician” not ‘attending obstetrician’.

  10. avatar
    Kathryn N March 7, 2010 at 10:36 am #

    Would they also have provided free transportation for his American spouse? Considering the ample evidence that President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii, I’m guessing that they didn’t, and that Barack Obama Sr. in any case didn’t leave his very pregnant young wife.

  11. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 10:38 am #

    BatGuano said “a quick google search will show that U of H , like most universities, has a summer term.”

    Did U of H offer a summer term in 1961?

  12. avatar
    SwampMop March 7, 2010 at 10:43 am #

    I just read the article from the Kenyan newspaper. Barack Obama Sr. apparently lived in the same neighborhood, populated by government officials, as Dr. Ang’awa. This was in the early 70s. They were probably in Nairobi, since it’s the capital city. There is no indication that they were friends or had known each other before Barack Obama Sr. returned from the United States after studying at Harvard. There is also no mention that Dr. Ang’awa was ever an obstetrician. Apparently he was a research scientist specializing in the treatment of tuberculosis. Another birther fail.

    Dr. Ang’awa co-authored articles on the Rupture of the Uterus

  13. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 10:43 am #

    Kathryn N said “Considering the ample evidence that President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii”

    Ample evidence? Do you mean all the evidence that would have resulted from the filing of a false birth report? Not one piece of evidence would eliminate the possibility that the only thing supporting them is a false birth report.

  14. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 10:45 am #

    Would they have provided transportation for the spouse?

    I don’t know. However, it is not out of the realm of possibilities. It would have also been possible that Stanley Ann’s parents footed the bill for her transportation.

  15. avatar
    SwampMop March 7, 2010 at 10:55 am #

    Would they also have provided free transportation for his American spouse? Considering the ample evidence that President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii, I’m guessing that they didn’t, and that Barack Obama Sr. in any case didn’t leave his very pregnant young wife.

    Susan Blake said, then retracted, that she received a post card from Stanley (Ann Dunham) from a ship in February or March of 1961.

  16. avatar
    NoVA Skeptic March 7, 2010 at 11:25 am #

    Sigh… [puts head in palm of hand]

    Do you have a single shred of evidence to back up your claims? Or course not, becuase birther arguments are nothing but idle claims, wild accusations, and pure speculation.

    Why don’t you provide concrete evident that Obama, Sr returned to Kenya that summer? I am sure that Mr. Maathai would love to provide you with all of the information you seek.

  17. avatar
    BatGuano March 7, 2010 at 11:43 am #

    BatGuano said “a quick google search will show that U of H , like most universities, has a summer term.”Did U of H offer a summer term in 1961?

    no idea. but this could easily be answered with a phone call to U of H if a person so desired ( i lack that desire this morning ).

    you came on here implying that it was silly to think that a person would attend school in summer. i was just pointing out that even the most MINIMAL amount of research showed it’s very common.

  18. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 11:51 am #

    NoVA Skeptic,

    I didn’t make the claim that Obama Sr. was in Hawaii during the summer of 1961. The burden is on the claimant i.e. Dr. Conspiracy.

    Why go to Africa when the answer to the question is in Hawaii. U of H would have record of Obama Sr. taking classes during the summer of 1961, and the DOH has the record of who filed Obama’s birth report.

    The most dangerous person is one with a secret. They can be easily extorted. Obama has a secret. He doesn’t want you to know who filed his false birth report.

    FYI Wangari Maathai is a woman. Not just any woman, but the first African woman and first environmentalist to receive the Nobel Peace Prize.

  19. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 12:02 pm #

    BatGuano said “you came on here implying that it was silly to think that a person would attend school in summer.”

    I did no such thing. I asked Dr. Conspiracy to support his claim. I will say this. If Dr. Conspiracy cannot support his claim of Obama being in school, or if U of H didn’t offer summer courses in 1961, that would be pretty silly.

  20. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 12:07 pm #

    BatGuano said “i was just pointing out that even the most MINIMAL amount of research showed it’s very common.”

    It may be common today, but was it common 50 years ago? Was that part of your MINIMAL search?

  21. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 12:10 pm #

    Thanks SwampMop!

  22. avatar
    The Sheriff's A Ni- March 7, 2010 at 12:33 pm #

    Ooh, I have a question!

    Why do you have a problem with the legally elected and duly sworn 44th President of our United States of America?

  23. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 12:44 pm #

    The Sheriff’s A Ni,

    I have a problem with anyone who occupies an office for which they fail to qualify. The U.S. Constitution mandates that he be a “Natural-Born Citizen”.

    I have even more of a problem when that person has something to hide. Obama doesn’t want us to know who filed his birth report with Hawaii. That makes him a very dangerous person. People with something to hide are very easily extorted. His cousin is the Prime Minister of Kenya.

    There exists a very easy way to prove that Obama’s Hawaiian birth report is not fraudulent, but Obama doesn’t want to do that. The one person who was alive when Obama was born mysteriously died the day before the election. There is no claim that she attended Obama’s birth, even though she supposedly lived in the same city. What mother doesn’t attend the birth of her first grandson, by her only daughter, when she lived in the same city?

  24. avatar
    The Sheriff's A Ni- March 7, 2010 at 12:57 pm #

    50 secretaries of state, Congress, the Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, and 64-plus straight birther losses in court have all deemed President Obama qualified for office.

    So I ask again, why do you have a problem with the legally elected and fully qualified 44th President of our United States of America?

  25. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 1:14 pm #

    The Sheriff’s a Ni,

    50 secretaries of state, Congress, the Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court have all relied on Obama’s or Pelosi’s word. None of them have examined all of the evidence. When it comes to the COLB published on the internet, even Janice Okubo stated “I don’t know that it’s possible for us to even say beyond a doubt what the image on the site represents”.

  26. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 1:30 pm #

    “fully qualified”?

    There’s where we disagree. And there’s why I have a problem with it. I don’t think someone born in Mombasa, Kenya meets the qualifications. Not even if an unidentified person files a false birth report in Hawaii.

    Prediction: Obama will either not run for reelection or he will lose the race because he will not let the American people determine the veracity of his Hawaiian birth report.

  27. avatar
    misha March 7, 2010 at 1:30 pm #

    @Questions: I agree with you. I found a Kenya birth certificate which you may be able to use, that’s right here!

    Good catch!

  28. avatar
    BatGuano March 7, 2010 at 1:48 pm #

    I don’t think someone born in Mombasa, Kenya meets the qualifications. Not even if an unidentified person files a false birth report in Hawaii.

    proof of any of this ???

  29. avatar
    nbC March 7, 2010 at 2:04 pm #

    Ample evidence? Do you mean all the evidence that would have resulted from the filing of a false birth report? Not one piece of evidence would eliminate the possibility that the only thing supporting them is a false birth report.

    Possibilities will always remain, probabilities however become ever smaller.

    It’s very simple, lacking any evidence to the contrary, Obama was born on US soil as his birth records and the birth announcements clearly indicate.

    There is of course always the possibility that Obama, per his own words, was born on the planet Krypton.

  30. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 7, 2010 at 2:04 pm #

    Questions: When it comes to the COLB published on the internet, even Janice Okubo stated “I don’t know that it’s possible for us to even say beyond a doubt what the image on the site represents”.

    While we all agree that documents images on the Internet are easily faked, and that nothing absolutely conclusive can be said about the Obama COLB (except that no one has really found anything wrong with it), what cannot be faked is the statement of the Hawaii Department of Health’s director, Janice Okubo’s boss, who said: “I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai’i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii ….”

    So there is your answer.

  31. avatar
    nbC March 7, 2010 at 2:04 pm #

    I don’t know. However, it is not out of the realm of possibilities. It would have also been possible that Stanley Ann’s parents footed the bill for her transportation.

    Imagination has no bounds, unlike reality…

  32. avatar
    nbC March 7, 2010 at 2:05 pm #

    Susan Blake said, then retracted, that she received a post card from Stanley (Ann Dunham) from a ship in February or March of 1961

    Hmm, summer starts earlier and earlier…

  33. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 7, 2010 at 2:07 pm #

    Questions: 50 secretaries of state,…, have all relied on Obama’s or Pelosi’s word

    But you don’t know that. You say that, but what is your evidence?

  34. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 7, 2010 at 2:11 pm #

    Questions: His cousin is the Prime Minister of Kenya.

    No, he isn’t.

    Questions: What mother doesn’t attend the birth of her first grandson, by her only daughter, when she lived in the same city?

    And why do you think she didn’t? The absence of a claim is not evidence.

    I’ve read several of your comments. You live in a world of rumors, not facts and evidence.

  35. avatar
    misha March 7, 2010 at 2:13 pm #

    I just called the Wawa around the corner. There’s guy who works there from the country of Africa, and he told me Amerians are the crziest people he ever met.

  36. avatar
    SFJeff March 7, 2010 at 2:14 pm #

    Question- Good ol’ doc doesn’t need to support his speculation. Why not? Because again the burden of proof is upon the accusers. You and others speculate that President Obama was born somewhere else besides Hawaii- it is your responsibility to provide some real evidence- convincing evidence- evidence that would stand up to scrutiny- to support your claim.

    So far there are have been at least 3 Kenyan Birth certificates produced. By process of elimination, at least two of them are forgeries designed to harm the President. So that is a clear proof that there are people out there manufacturing ‘evidence’ against the President for nefarious purposes. Are they racists? Are they scared of the man with Muslim sounding name? What is the motivation of the people who keep making up evidence? That is the question you should be asking.

  37. avatar
    nbC March 7, 2010 at 2:15 pm #

    Susan Blake said

    Susan Blake, another high-school classmate, said that during a brief visit in 1961, Dunham was excited about her husband’s plans to return to Kenya.

    This is then turned into a visit to Kenya during the summer of 1961 when, as far as I can tell, the visit was after the child was born…

    Other sources mention

    Fifteen days after Barack Obama’s birth either in Hawaii, Washington state or Kenya, Ann enrolls in extension classes at the University of Washington in Seattle on August 19, 1961.[1]Ann tells her babysitter she is anxious to return to her husband–which suggests the couple still have a relationship. She reveals to the babysitter they plan to move to Kenya where Obama Sr. will take another wife, a full blooded Kenyan, as an obligation to his tribe.[1]

    That was a quick return from Kenya indeed…

  38. avatar
    nbC March 7, 2010 at 2:17 pm #

    I have a problem with anyone who occupies an office for which they fail to qualify. The U.S. Constitution mandates that he be a “Natural-Born Citizen”

    Which by Common Law meant born on US soil, regardless of the status of the parents.

  39. avatar
    nbC March 7, 2010 at 2:17 pm #

    His cousin is the Prime Minister of Kenya.

    More ignorance… Don’t you have any self respect?

  40. avatar
    nbC March 7, 2010 at 2:18 pm #

    There is no claim that she attended Obama’s birth, even though she supposedly lived in the same city.

    And thus you turn this into evidence of the alternative.

    Poor logic at best…

  41. avatar
    nbC March 7, 2010 at 2:19 pm #

    The most dangerous person is one with a secret. They can be easily extorted. Obama has a secret. He doesn’t want you to know who filed his false birth report.

    What false birth report? You are jumping to conclusions not supported by the facts.

  42. avatar
    SFJeff March 7, 2010 at 2:19 pm #

    “The standard (in 1961) was for students to return home during the summer break. The same people that provided the transportation to Hawaii (likely the African American Students Foundation -headed by William Scheinman and Tom Mboya) would have likely provided return transportation (free of charge) during the summer break.”

    When I went to college- none of the exchange students I knew returned home the entire 4 years. It was just too expensive. I had a good friend from Nigeria and he stayed and went to school every summer.

    You claim that the standard was that they went home- but you don’t support that. Anyway silly argument- you need to prove that Obama was born in Africa. Whether Obama Sr. returned to Africa during the summer is a red herring- it by itself is meaningless.

  43. avatar
    John March 7, 2010 at 2:19 pm #

    Dr. Fukino’s answer is carefully carefully crafted and she opened a can of worms when she said it. The statement has potential of getting Dr. Fukino into alot of trouble if a lawyer decides to sue. Dr. Fukino has no authority to reveal information of individual’s vital records according to Statute 338. Addition, because this is a public statement, Dr. Fukino is required by law to release all information and data she used to construct her statement. Finally, Dr. Fukino and the AG are required by law to reveal all communication about the part of the statement where she said Obama was a Natural Born Citizen. Since Fukino is using the statement as a sword she can’t hide behind privacy laws as a shield.

  44. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 7, 2010 at 2:20 pm #

    Obama was a poor student relying on financial aid. Trips to Africa were expensive, and so a summer jaunt back doesn’t make sense. Having put kids through college myself, I know the advantages and financial savings of summer school. The other part is that Dr. Ang’awa lived in an exclusive area (per the newspaper account), also one that would not be a likely place for a poor student to live. It makes sense later on when Obama Sr. becomes a notable figure.

    There is also a newspaper account from 2007 where Sarah Obama interviewed said that she learned of her stap grandson’s birth in a letter 6 months after the fact.

    That is why I made the remark that if Obama and Ang’awa were neighbors, it would have to have been after Obama’s student days.

    Now I suppose that someone could perhaps gather more musty information and support this more solidly, but it doesn’t seem worthy of the effort.

  45. avatar
    John March 7, 2010 at 2:21 pm #

    Since Dr. Fukino said that Obama was born Hawaii based on his “Original Vital Records”, Fukino can also state if Obama was born in a hospital and the doc who delivered him.

  46. avatar
    BatGuano March 7, 2010 at 2:21 pm #

    BatGuano said “i was just pointing out that even the most MINIMAL amount of research showed it’s very common.”It may be common today, but was it common 50 years ago? Was that part of your MINIMAL search?

    nope. but another minimal search shows ………. yes they were.

  47. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 2:25 pm #

    There is evidence to the contrary. Instead of insisting that we rely on the country where Obama’s cousin is the Prime Minister, a country who has much to benefit by having one of their own in the Office of U.S. President; why don’t we insist that Obama produce his original birth report?

    Every new piece of evidence points to Obama being born in Mombasa, Kenya. The only thing Obama is willing to produce is a record based on SOME UNIDENTIFIED PERSON having filed a FALSE BIRTH REPORT in HAWAII. If you want to take Obama’s word, you should ask him what it was like to observe his own birth.

  48. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 7, 2010 at 2:27 pm #

    Questions: Do you think it is possible that physicians were not so specialized in 1961 Kenya? After all, the BC says “attending physician” not attending obstetrician’.

    Ang’awa was a professor of pediatrics. In this context an “attending physician” is “the physician with primary responsibility for the care of a patient in a particular case.”

  49. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 7, 2010 at 2:30 pm #

    Questions: That way he could have documentation to support a claim that Obama Sr. was “going to college when his son, the future president, was born”.

    What I meant was that this period of time was part of the time Obama Sr. was in college in Hawaii and when Obama Sr. was in residence there. I did not mean to imply that Obama was actively taking classes in August 1961, only that he was not in residence in Kenya.

  50. avatar
    The Sheriff's A Ni- March 7, 2010 at 2:32 pm #

    The Sheriff’s a Ni,50 secretaries of state, Congress, the Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court have all relied on Obama’s or Pelosi’s word.

    Actually, they have all accepted prima facie evidence provided by President Obama and the State of Hawaii with regards to his citizenship.

    So I ask this time: Why do you have such a problem with the legally elected and duly sworn 44th President of our United States of America that you would resort to blatant lies?

  51. avatar
    Scientist March 7, 2010 at 2:33 pm #

    I don’t think someone born in Mombasa, Kenya meets the qualifications

    I do. So there.

  52. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 2:34 pm #

    I cannot attest to the others, but the Lucas Smith, Coast Province General Hospital birth certificate has withstood scrutiny. Nothing about it has been invalidated. WND tried to discredit it, but was proven wrong in a very short time. Evidence that Dr. Ang’awa was in Mombasa in 1960 and 1961 were soon discovered. Evidence that Mombasa was a British Protectorate was also found. The date format is even currently used on the Kenya Office of Public Communications “Calendar of Events”. The hospital existed back in 1955. The only thing discredited was World Nut Daily.

  53. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 7, 2010 at 2:34 pm #

    Questions: The standard (in 1961) was for students to return home during the summer break. The same people that provided the transportation to Hawaii (likely the African American Students Foundation -headed by William Scheinman and Tom Mboya) would have likely provided return transportation (free of charge) during the summer break.

    Well if that is your thesis, go for it. Bring us some evidence.

    Now you might say that it’s up to me to come up with evidence, but there is a basic difference between you and me. I have found it to be universally the case that presenting evidence to a birther is a waste of time. On the other hand, evidence presented to me is acknowledged and content here if in error is corrected.

  54. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 7, 2010 at 2:36 pm #

    NoVA Skeptic: Just can’t tolerate any more birther idiocy.

    Boy are you in the wrong place!

  55. avatar
    SFJeff March 7, 2010 at 2:47 pm #

    “The one person who was alive when Obama was born mysteriously died the day before the election.”

    Mysteriously? Since when is it a mystery when an elderly woman who had been ill for months dies?

    Really- explain why you say it is a mystery? Are you implying that there was some foul play? Or are you just sort of pseudo implying it so that most people think you mean something shady happened while you can deny implying anything?

    Want to know why this irritates me so much? Because when Candidate Obama flew out to Hawaii suddenly because his grandmother took a sudden turn for the worst, his critics complained about that. Now you try to make her death something to question. You people really have no shame.

  56. avatar
    SFJeff March 7, 2010 at 2:49 pm #

    So go ahead and sue her John. Tell us how it goes.

  57. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 2:59 pm #

    Either way, your statement is not supported by any evidence. At best it falls in the “it is possible” category.

    Are you really claiming that students from foreign countries were provided transportation to the colleges, and then expected to remain in the country until after they graduated, at which time they will provide them return transportation?

  58. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 7, 2010 at 3:01 pm #

    WND had a real birth certificate from Kenya and it doesn’t have the same format as the Lucas Smith version. In fact, no one has to my knowledge, published any document that looks like that. Now if someone came up with a documented Kenyan birth certificate that looked like the Smith version, that would contradict the contention of WND.

    To me, the “smoking gun” against the Smith certificate is the birth date, the same date and time as Obama’s official date of birth. To make the “born in Africa” story work with a fraudulent birth certificate filed in Hawaii, more time would have been required between the date of birth and the date of registration. If Obama were really born in Africa amid a massive family fraud, it is almost certain Obama would have to have been born earlier than August 4.

    Dr. Ang’awa being in Mombasa in 1961 need mean nothing more than that Smith picked a doctor that he could pinpoint as being in town through searches on the Internet. I have already written about why I am skeptical of the Smith certificate. What I did not say in that article is that Hawaiian law at the time did not allow for a grandmother to register a birth. Outside of an attended birth, only the parent is allowed.

    § 57-8. Compulsory registration of births. Within the time prescribed by the board, a certificate of every birth shall be filed with the local registrar of the district in which the birth occurred, by the physician, midwife or other legally authorized person in attendance at the birth; or if not so attended, by one of the parents. [R. L. 1945, s. 3100.09; add. L. 1949, c. 327, s. 9.]

    I don’t see how Stanley Ann could have given birth on Friday night and presented HERSELF at the Department of Health the following Tuesday morning. Remember, Mombasa did not have an international airport in 1961, nor were there any direct flights from Africa to Hawaii.

  59. avatar
    nbc March 7, 2010 at 3:01 pm #

    Are you really claiming that students from foreign countries were provided transportation to the colleges, and then expected to remain in the country until after they graduated, at which time they will provide them return transportation?

    Nope… I am merely pointing out that your possibilities have no relevance to probabilities.

  60. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 3:07 pm #

    When that “summer jaunt” was to HOME it makes a lot of sense. Tell me your children went away to college and didn’t return home for four years. Tell me that is true of any of your friends or neighbors children.

  61. avatar
    SFJeff March 7, 2010 at 3:09 pm #

    I had this thought last night.

    In answer to the question “Why doesn’t President Obama show the mysterious long form of the BC?”- it occurred to me that we have not answered this thoroughly.

    I think that President Obama is probably offended that he is asked for any birth certificate.

    This is how I envision it went(all done with the talent of Bob Newhart, not me)

    ring ring
    Obama: hello
    aid: um Senator, the people are asking for you to provide proof you were born in the United States- they want a copy of your birth certificate.
    Obama; Oh sure- I imagine this is just routine- they ask this from all the candidates
    aid: Um no sir, actually this is the first time.
    Obama: What? They are asking for my birth certificate, but they didn’t ask Bush for his?
    aid; I think its the Hussein thing- you know how Limbaugh keeps trying to scare people that you are really an A-rab.
    Obama: Wait- arab-american’s can’t be President?
    aid: Technically yes, but we all know that is not going to happen. Remember its still okay to stereotype arabs.
    Obama: Okay, okay- we will order a copy of the birth certificate from Hawaii, announce its availible at our campaign headquarters for anyone to examine, and post a copy on the web- I imagine McCain is doing this too?
    aid: Um no sir- McCain apparently showed one reporter in secret his birth certificate and everybody is hunky dory with it.
    Obama: Damn- okay but once we do all this, then the people will be happy?
    aid: Um no…..apparently they are going to call anyone who examines the copy of the certificate frauds, the copy you post a forgery and demand to see your ‘long form’ birth certificate- whatever that is.
    Obama: So, let me get this straight- if I provide more proof than any previous candidate that I was born in the United States, the ‘people’ will not believe any of it, and demand I provide additional proof.
    Aid; Yes sir- apparently they are going to want your hospital records, kindergarten records, immigrations records, elementary school records, copies of all your college papers, pictures of you attending classes- oh and evidence that your parents were really married
    Obama; Is this a joke? Okay if I provide all this information- kindergarten records really?- they will finally accept that I am eligible.
    aid: Um no sir- apparently they feel that since your father was Kenyan you can’t be a natural born citizen according to some Swiss philosopher in the 17th century.
    Obama; So no matter what I provide- they are still convinced that the black man can’t be eligible?
    Aid: oh and they think your grandmother committed fraud and that your grandfather was a communist.
    Obama: Well screw them. I am going to post my birth certificate and if they can’t accept that, then they can just not vote for me.

    And the rest is history.

    I think birthers should feel lucky that Obama has more patience than a Lyndon Johnson or Harry Truman or heaven forbid Richard Nixon.

  62. avatar
    Greg March 7, 2010 at 3:11 pm #

    What, exactly, has Kenya gained from Obama being President? You’ve alleged the quid, where’s the pro quo?

    And if the prime minister has something to gain from hiding Obama’s birth place, doesn’t the President, the PM’s competitor in the election, have something to gain by releasing it? At the very least, would he have the leverage toi end the power-sharing agreement that was foisted on him?

    These conspiracy theories are never well fleshed-out. There are plot holes you could drive a Mack truck through.

  63. avatar
    nbc March 7, 2010 at 3:12 pm #

    There are examples of students applying for funds to have their family move over to the US with them, the AASF responded that they lacked the funds.
    It seems very plausible that the funds were focused on getting the students to the US and provide them with an education, rather than waste the funds on expensive trips back and forth.

    Just logic and reason.

  64. avatar
    nbc March 7, 2010 at 3:14 pm #

    To given an example of the funds

    At the end of the tour Mboya had promises for over 40 scholarships. Shortly after Mboya returned to Kenya the African American Students Foundation (AASF) was established to raise money to bring the students to the United States. The AASF raised an initial $39,000 and the first 81 students arrived in September 1959. Baseball star Jackie Robinson and performers Harry Belafonte and Sidney Poitier led the initial fundraising. There was a two day orientation program for the initial 81 students. In 1960 the Joseph P. Kennedy Foundation gave $100,000 to AASF. As a result in 1960 three planes were chartered bringing 222 students from east and central Africa. In all over 770 students from 10 East African countries, 85 percent from Kenya, came to the United States and most returned to civil servant positions after independence.

  65. avatar
    SFJeff March 7, 2010 at 3:14 pm #

    I will say it again Question- none of the exchange students I knew in college went home during the summer. I knew students from Japan, Nigeria, Egypt, Lebanon and other places and they all stayed and went to summer school.

  66. avatar
    nbc March 7, 2010 at 3:16 pm #

    The AASF program was almost canceled because they failed to secure money for the transportation.

  67. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 3:19 pm #

    First point: What WND had was a COLB from another area of Kenya. You either already knew that or they fooled the great Dr. Conspiracy too.

    Second Point: Are you trying to say that Grandma Dunham could not have received the news of the Kenyan birth by phone sometime between the time he was born and 4 days later, or that she could not have also reported the birth to the DOH in-person on the 8th of August? If so, you don’t think phones existed in 1961.

    Third Point: Are you trying to claim that Grandma or Grandpa Dunham, as owner of the property in which the birth was reported to have occurred was not considered to be a “legally authorized person”? If so, you better do some more research. Even plantation births are reported in that manner.

  68. avatar
    SFJeff March 7, 2010 at 3:22 pm #

    “Every new piece of evidence points to Obama being born in Mombasa, Kenya.”

    So far there have been at least three Kenayn birth certificates. Those are the ‘new pieces of evidence’- and even you should be able to see that at a minimum at least two of them are frauds.

    There has been new evidence that President Obama was born in Hawaii- Janet Okubo stated in her official capacity that he was.

    “The only thing Obama is willing to produce is a record based on SOME UNIDENTIFIED PERSON having filed a FALSE BIRTH REPORT in HAWAII. If you want to take Obama’s word, you should ask him what it was like to observe his own birth.”

    First of all- you have provided no evidence that there was a false birth report- therefore you are assuming this- secondly the certified copy of the birth certificate is what we would ask for anyone under any circumstances. Why I ask you- should the President give you or anyone else- any more than what anyone else might be asked? The President has already proven to the satisfaction of the voters, the electoral college, congress and the Chief Justice that he was eligible. He can and should ignore those who ask the black man to go beyond that.

  69. avatar
    nbc March 7, 2010 at 3:23 pm #

    First point: What WND had was a COLB from another area of Kenya. You either already knew that or they fooled the great Dr. Conspiracy too.

    There have been various so called birth certificates from Kenya, one of them was a clear forgery, the other was obtained through a bribe and the name of the official misspelled.

    Second Point: Are you trying to say that Grandma Dunham could not have received the news of the Kenyan birth by phone sometime between the time he was born and 4 days later, or that she could not have also reported the birth to the DOH in-person on the 8th of August? If so, you don’t think phones existed in 1961.

    Again, there is a possibility but there is no evidence of this event having taken place. As to phones existing, they were sparse, especially in Kenya and the suggestion that Stanley Ann would have given birth in Kenya on August 08, and be in Seattle on August 19, seems somewhat pushing credibility don’t you think?

    Third Point: Are you trying to claim that Grandma or Grandpa Dunham, as owner of the property in which the birth was reported to have occurred was not considered to be a “legally authorized person”? If so, you better do some more research. Even plantation births are reported in that manner.

    You are good at placing words in the mouths of others. You are however extremely unable to provide any evidence to support your ‘possibilities’…

    Why is that?

  70. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 7, 2010 at 3:24 pm #

    Questions: Tell me your children went away to college and didn’t return home for four years.

    I live on the east coast and my son went to UC Berkeley on the west coast, but he didn’t stay away 4 years. He went to summer school and finished in 3. Bwahahahahaha.

  71. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 3:25 pm #

    Nice try nbc, but nothing you posted indicates that the foreign students were trapped here until they graduated. Wouldn’t that be a cruel thing to do?

  72. avatar
    nbc March 7, 2010 at 3:26 pm #

    As I have shown the AASF had no funds for transportation and had to rely on an airlift and later a Kennedy foundation contribution to pay for the transportation.

    It defies logic that the AASF would have had the funds for these students to return every summer, including their spouse.

  73. avatar
    Greg March 7, 2010 at 3:28 pm #

    She sounds like a wonderful person. Has she said that Obama was born in Kenya?

    Proof that Obama Sr. was in Hawaii in August 1961? All signs point to yes:

    1. The COLB has the signature of Alvin Onaka, the registrar of Hawaii, swearing that it is a true and accurate copy or abstract of the records on file with the state.

    2. The same has a state seal, giving the full evidentiary backing of the state of HI to its authenticity.

    3. The state of Hawaii has twice made public statements that, yes, Obama was born in Honolulu.

    4. It would be unusual that a father would travel to a foreign country for the summer break knowing his child is due.

    There, I’ve put forward enough evidence to make it more likely than not that Obama Sr. was in HI that summer.

    Now, as you fake lawyers must know, that is the standard of proof in a civil case.

    But, it’s just speculation, you say! No, it’s circumstantial evidence. If I go to sleep and there is no snow on the ground, but when I wake up there is snow, that is circumstantial evidence that it snowed overnight. (Someone could have brought in a snow-blower, but it is more likely that it snowed.)

    By contrast, there is no evidence that suggests that the COLB is based on falsified testimony. There is no credible evidence that Obama was born in Kenya – direct or circumstantial.

  74. avatar
    nbc March 7, 2010 at 3:28 pm #

    Providing them with first class education in the United States is cruel? Providing them with means to supplement their income during the summer is cruel?

    I have shown that the AAFS lacked the funds.

    Funny how possibilities suddenly become irrelevant to you.

    Pathetic my dear friend.

  75. avatar
    nbc March 7, 2010 at 3:30 pm #

    I know of several international students who, rather than waste their limited resources on summer vacation home, spent their time supplementing their income during the summer.

    In may sound harsh, but being away from your family and being provided a first class US education may be an acceptable premise to many young students.

  76. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 3:30 pm #

    So a document that Obama doesn’t want released is obtained by a bribe and the bribe part is what bothers you? If you want to claim that Helton Maganga’s name is mispelled, get a copy of his stamp and signature. That should be easy to obtain. Don’t bother using the GreatKim forgery.

  77. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 3:35 pm #

    And if you’re trying to sell the “Return of birth in the district” crap from WND, you must be really scared.

    Here’s a link to the “Return” that WND claims to be a birth certificate.

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=106135

  78. avatar
    SFJeff March 7, 2010 at 3:36 pm #

    Once again- a Birther who not only speculates that President Obama was not eligible, but that his grandparents helped commit fraud at his birth.

    For gods sake- if for some reason being able to prove that Obama was born in the United States was so important, then maybe young very pregnant Ann might not have made the very long and arduous trip to Africa to give birth there?

    Do you even think about how preposterous your line of thinking is?

    The huge leaps and bounds of imagination birthers are willing to accept in order to show that the black man couldn’t possibly have been eligible continues to amaze me.

  79. avatar
    SFJeff March 7, 2010 at 3:39 pm #

    “Even plantation births are reported in that manner.’

    I am really intrigued by this comment. Please elaborate.

  80. avatar
    nbc March 7, 2010 at 3:39 pm #

    There were several so-called Kenyan Birth Certificates.

    One was shown to be a fake when the original birth certificate was found, assigned to an Australian.

    Then there is the Lucas Smith ‘certificate’ which was obtained under bribes and the name of the official appears to be misspelled.

    What am I missing?

    And why do you refer to WND as if it has any authority in these matters? They have been pursuing their silly claims for quite some time and no evidence…

  81. avatar
    Greg March 7, 2010 at 3:40 pm #

    Actually, John, since there can be sanctions for filing frivolous lawsuits, Fukino has less to fear than anyone suing her.

    Orly’s $20k sanction should be a lesson to you. Of course, the earlier threatened sanctions against, IIRC, Donofrio’s local counsel should have been a warning to Orly. Some people just can’t be warned off idiotic and self-destructive behavior.

  82. avatar
    G March 7, 2010 at 3:43 pm #

    Wow. For a post that is pretty much about trivial esoterica tangentially linked to a few obscure birther conspiracies at best, it sure has generated a firestorm of activity!

    Talk about much ado about nothing! *sheesh*

  83. avatar
    G March 7, 2010 at 3:45 pm #

    ROTFL! I’m voting this as my favorite response of the day.

  84. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 3:49 pm #

    All Ang’awa did was pediatrics? Was that common?

    “Dr. Stephen Mwange of the Kinango District Hospital works as OB-GYN, general practitioner, oncologist, and pediatrician in the understaffed medical center outside of Mombasa.”

    Even today they are understaffed.
    http://www.doublex.com/section/health-science/kenyan-women-go-pill%E2%80%94behind-their-husbands%E2%80%99-backs

    As was posted earlier Dr. Ang’awa co-authored an article titled “Rupture of the uterus in East Africa; a note on its incidence and aetiology in women of the Kikuyu Tribe.” Dr. Ang’awa had more than just pediatric experience.

  85. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 3:57 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy claims that Odinga is not Obama’s cousin. Odinga himself doesn’t agree with Dr. Conspiracy.

    “Mr Odinga told the BBC’s The World Today that Senator Obama’s father was his maternal uncle.”

    Not only did Odinga state that he was related, he stated how he was related. Dr. Conspiracy must be relying on the word of Obama. You know, the guys that keeps lying to you about everything except the things you want to believe he is lying about.

    Wake up people. You were conned.

  86. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 3:58 pm #

    I guess I should have given you a link to that BBS News article.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7176683.stm

    “Mr Odinga told the BBC’s The World Today that Senator Obama’s father was his maternal uncle.”

  87. avatar
    Scientist March 7, 2010 at 4:00 pm #

    Hey, Questions! Listen up! As I have mentioned here before I used to be a scientific consultant to the Agency (you know, the one in Langley, VA) and I am having a good laugh over your amateur sleuthing. When the Agency recruited young Barry back in 81 to run the war against the Soviets in Afghanistan he would have been provided a new identity. All files would have been scrubbed and new documents would have been made by the team at Langley who were the best in the business back then(apologies to my friends in Moscow (the boys in Beijing are first rate these days but they weren’t real players back in the 80s)). I can promise you that you and birther pals are like a Little League team going up against the Yankees. You couldn’t even BEGIN to GUESS at the methods we used. And if you did, we’d have to kill you.

  88. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 4:01 pm #

    I say it’s a false birth report based on having another birth report. (A birth report that Kenya is unwilling to verify. Does Obama have a strong influence in Kenya? Could that interfere with verification? Then why not do it in Hawaii? Are you scared of the results?

  89. avatar
    G March 7, 2010 at 4:13 pm #

    I guess I should have given you a link to that BBS News article.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7176683.stm“Mr Odinga told the BBC’s The World Today that Senator Obama’s father was his maternal uncle.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raila_Odinga

    In a January 2008 BBC interview, Odinga asserted that he was the first cousin of U.S. president Barack Obama through Obama’s father.[29] However, Barack Obama’s paternal uncle denied any direct relation to Odinga, stating “Odinga’s mother came from this area, so it is normal for us to talk about cousins. But he is not a blood relative.”[30] Obama’s father came from the same Luo community as Odinga. [29]

    So again, much ado about nothing.

    This is a country where people use the term “cousin” as a simple euphemism to mean that they are from the same tribe.

    They are not closely related nor blood-relatives, as we use the term here in America.

    They simply are both are from the same Luo tribe. *W-o-w*. Big deal:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luo_(Kenya_and_Tanzania)

    The Luo are the third largest ethnic group (13%) in Kenya, after the Kikuyu (22%) and the Luhya (14%). The Luo and the Kikuyu inherited the bulk of political power in the first years following Kenya’s independence in 1963. The Luo population in Kenya was estimated to be 3,185,000 in 1994 .[1] The Tanzanian Luo population was estimated at 280,000 in 2001.[1]

    That would be like claiming you are a cousin to every single person in the state of Iowa.

  90. avatar
    Mario Apuzzo March 7, 2010 at 4:13 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy,

    Well said.

  91. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 4:14 pm #

    Show me evidence that a valid birth reports was filed in Hawaii. Who signed it? What hospital is indicated? Who was the doctor?

    You haven’t presented anything that doesn’t rely on the birth report. Not one thing. You can’t put Obama Sr. or Stanley Ann or Barack Jr. in Hawaii during the summer of 1961. After Sr. and Ann claim to have been married (I believe they were married, but I have not seen records supporting it), the next time Ann is physically located is the Spring semester in Seattle in 1962.

  92. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 4:16 pm #

    You’re right John.

    By Hawaiian Law, the record used to make that determination must be released.

  93. avatar
    NoVA Skeptic March 7, 2010 at 4:20 pm #

    Ditto. When I was attending the U.S. Naval Academy most of the foreign students remained in Annapolis pretty much most of the time and only rarely returned home. In fact, it is perfectly logical for a poor student from a poor country to forsake the luxury of returning home for vacations.

  94. avatar
    misha March 7, 2010 at 4:22 pm #

    Obama was born in Africa? How romantic. I’m glad he’s president. Four more years! Also, the NYT traced Michelle Obama’s family tree, and she may have a Jewish paternal great-great grandfather.

    He was born in Kenya? So what?

    I can’t wait until Cory Booker announces.

  95. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 4:23 pm #

    So Dr. Fukino verified that Obama’s grandmother filed a birth report.

  96. avatar
    John March 7, 2010 at 4:41 pm #

    Yes, I would like to know what FACT or DATA contained in Obama’s Vital Records allows Fukino to stand by her statement. Fukino’s statement must be derived from some FACT or DATA contained in Obama’s Vital Record. Fukino under the law, must disclose what that fact is and release it.

  97. avatar
    John March 7, 2010 at 4:43 pm #

    So Dr. Fukino verified that Obama’s grandmother filed a birth report.

    That is prevailing theory. So far it has yet to be proven or disproven. We still don’t any coroborative irrutable evidence that definitely establishes that Obama was born in Hawaii.

  98. avatar
    misha March 7, 2010 at 4:46 pm #

    Hi Mario. I found a CD I can’t rip onto my HDD. Pretty clever. In fact, when I tried it, I got a nasty dialogue box.

    “Resgister your CD. Enter your name,address, e-mail address to enjoy all our benefits.”

    Yeah, right.

  99. avatar
    John March 7, 2010 at 4:52 pm #

    Actually is possible for any lawyer who suing Obama or WND to verify any fact contained in Obama’s vital records:

    [§338-14.3] Verification in lieu of a certified copy. (a) Subject to the requirements of section 338-18, the department of health, upon request, shall furnish to any applicant, in lieu of the issuance of a certified copy, a verification of the existence of a certificate and any other information that the applicant provides to be verified relating to the vital event that pertains to the certificate.

    (b) A verification shall be considered for all purposes certification that the vital event did occur and that the facts of the event are as stated by the applicant.

    Statute 338-18
    g) The department shall not issue a verification in lieu of a certified copy of any such record, or any part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant requesting a verification is:

    4) A private or government attorney who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record which was acquired during the course of or for purposes of legal proceedings; or

    (5) An individual employed, endorsed, or sponsored by a governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record in preparation of reports or publications by the agency or organization for research or educational purposes.

  100. avatar
    misha March 7, 2010 at 4:54 pm #

    @Questions: I went to Israel every summer. Good point.

    There’s a vicious rumor on the ‘net, that Orly Taitz is a KGB agent!

    That’s terrible.

  101. avatar
    nbC March 7, 2010 at 5:00 pm #

    I say it’s a false birth report based on having another birth report.

    And yet Hawaii claims it is a real birth report.

    Why do you ignore the facts in favor of pure speculation?

    Why indeed?

  102. avatar
    nbC March 7, 2010 at 5:01 pm #

    Nope, she verified that by all known standards, Obama was born on US soil.

  103. avatar
    Scientist March 7, 2010 at 5:02 pm #

    There’s a vicious rumor on the net, that Orly Taitz is a KGB agent!

    misha-The KGB has fallen on such hard times recently that it’s possible they would hire a fool like her. Back when I used to consult for the Agency, they were a first-rate adversary and wouldn’t have touched a loser like her with a 10-foot pole. It’s quite sad to see actually.

  104. avatar
    nbC March 7, 2010 at 5:02 pm #

    Show me evidence that a valid birth reports was filed in Hawaii. Who signed it? What hospital is indicated? Who was the doctor?

    The DOH in Hawaii has explained that Obama was born in Honolulu Hawaii. Anything else is just irrelevant.

  105. avatar
    nbC March 7, 2010 at 5:03 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy claims that Odinga is not Obama’s cousin. Odinga himself doesn’t agree with Dr. Conspiracy.

    So you’d rather agree with Odinga than with Obama?

    Figures…

    No respect for our Country and its President.

  106. avatar
    nbC March 7, 2010 at 5:04 pm #

    Hey Mario, still have not heard much about why you quoted a secondary source to suggest that Reeves supported your position about Vattel

    Weird…

  107. avatar
    misha March 7, 2010 at 5:06 pm #

    Hey everyone: I was actually born in Mombasa, and I have an authentic Kenya birth certificate, to prove it!
    .

  108. avatar
    nbC March 7, 2010 at 5:08 pm #

    Actually is possible for any lawyer who suing Obama or WND to verify any fact contained in Obama’s vital records:

    Of course, they have to have a reason to look at the vital records.

    Other than that… Well..

  109. avatar
    SFJeff March 7, 2010 at 5:10 pm #

    “I say it’s a false birth report based on having another birth report.”

    I love the Birther logic- the third unverified birth report out of Kenya somehow emerges, and that is evidence that the Hawaiian Birth Certificate- saying the President is born in Hawaii, which is verified by the State of Hawaii- is presumed false. I really hope you are never on a jury.

    “A birth report that Kenya is unwilling to verify. Does Obama have a strong influence in Kenya? Could that interfere with verification? Then why not do it in Hawaii? Are you scared of the results”

    As I said before- I think Obama is basically saying screw you birthers- you never required any previous President for all of this hogwash but over a year after being sworn in, you are still manufacturing reasons why the black man couldn’t possibly be President- I guess in your mind he should go back to that plantation you mentioned.

  110. avatar
    SFJeff March 7, 2010 at 5:16 pm #

    What a bunch of crap- really. Why are we being polite about this?

    President Obama presented clear evidence that he was born in Hawaii. More evidence than any previous President was asked to present. And his critiques said it was forged.

    His birth was confirmed by contemporary newspaper announcements.

    His birth in Hawaii was confirmed by the state of Hawaii.

    This is all more than any previous President has provided.

    President Obama doesn’t have to- nor should he- humor you folk with further evidence. He shouldn’t give you squat. If every piece of evidence was confirmed by the Supreme Court you would call them all schills of Obama and then pull out the Vattel ‘dual parents’ nonsense.

    Face it- your only goal is to try to remove a legally elected President that you don’t trust, and who just happens to be the wrong color.

  111. avatar
    SFJeff March 7, 2010 at 5:20 pm #

    Then sue her. Really go ahead.

    But there are really only two possibilities:
    a) She is correct- in which case President Obama is a natural born citizen and all this crap about kindergarten records and hospital records is meaningless
    b) or she is lieing. Which brings us to why would she lie? Is there some advantage for her to lie? Or is she part of this vast conspiracy that somehow influences all sorts of government figures, including judges but somehow leaves crackpot lawyers like Taitz to roam the country in search of the Anti-Obama grail?

  112. avatar
    Greg March 7, 2010 at 5:26 pm #

    Why don’t one of you arm-chair lawyers man up and sue?

    What do you have to lose except the sanction for filing a frivolous lawsuit and the ability to misrepresent Hawaiian law?

    You guys are obviously and completely wrong about Hawaiian law, and won’t be convinced until you bring suit and are sanctioned.

    Have fun!

  113. avatar
    SFJeff March 7, 2010 at 5:27 pm #

    “So Dr. Fukino verified that Obama’s grandmother filed a birth report.”

    No Dr. Fukino didn’t.

    “That is prevailing theory. So far it has yet to be proven or disproven”

    Actually, that is the second prevailing theory- the prevailing theory is that the Easter Bunny hatched Obama(in Camp David) and forged the BC.- that is the prevailing theory- and it has yet to be disproven.

  114. avatar
    Greg March 7, 2010 at 5:28 pm #

    A birth report that Kenya is unwilling to verify.

    They’re unwilling to verify a fake birth report?

    Shocking!

  115. avatar
    SFJeff March 7, 2010 at 5:32 pm #

    So “Questions” – why not show some cojones and explain your remark about the ‘mysterious death’ of the President’s grandmother? Explain why it was mysterious and what those implications are?

  116. avatar
    Greg March 7, 2010 at 5:38 pm #

    You know, the guys that keeps lying to you about everything except the things you want to believe he is lying about.

    Actually, we’re listening to Barack Obama’s paternal uncle.

    However, Barack Obama’s paternal uncle denied any direct relation to Odinga, stating “Odinga’s mother came from this area, so it is normal for us to talk about cousins. But he is not a blood relative.”

    Wikipedia.

    You want us to believe that Raila is so shady that he’d lie about Obama’s birth, but so upstanding that he would never lie about being related to Obama in order to help his campaign.

    I realize you guys aren’t real lawyers, but have you never watched any lawyer shows? Perry Mason? The Practice? Boston Legal? LA Law? Your fantasies wouldn’t fly on the least believable of these legal shows, the least competent of the District Attorneys would tear your stuff apart on cross examination!

  117. avatar
    Scientist March 7, 2010 at 5:40 pm #

    So “Questions” – why not show some cojones and explain your remark about the mysterious death’ of the President’s grandmother? Explain why it was mysterious and what those implications are?

    Jeff-Of course it was mysterious. She had cancer. I’ve worked on cancer my whole life and I don’t understand exactly what causes it in most cases nor how to treat it.

  118. avatar
    Greg March 7, 2010 at 5:40 pm #

    So, John, man up and sue!

    The only thing you have to lose is the $20k when you’re sanctioned for bringing a frivolous lawsuit.

    But, you insist your suit has merit, so put your money where your mouth is!

  119. avatar
    Kathryn N March 7, 2010 at 5:49 pm #

    From what is known about Madelyn Dunham, it is highly unlikely that she would have given her pregnant 18 year old daughter the money to take a 10,000 mile trip to Kenya with her due date near. Mrs. Dunham was a hardheaded, practical woman, not given to foolish adventures.

  120. avatar
    BatGuano March 7, 2010 at 5:50 pm #

    You’re right John.By Hawaiian Law, the record used to make that determination must be released.

    which hawaiian law is that exactly ???

  121. avatar
    Mary Brown March 7, 2010 at 5:54 pm #

    Here we go again. These people cannot and will not accept that Obama is President and was born in Hawaii. I think discussing it with them is unproductive. Presenting evidence is unproductive. They fall for every spoof, every false birth certificate, every accusation. Poor babies.

  122. avatar
    Kathryn N March 7, 2010 at 6:00 pm #

    So a woman in her 80s, in poor health, whose doctor said she didn’t have long to live,”mysteriously died?”
    Birther World is indeed a wondrous place, full of magic ponies, mysterious documents, and dark convoluted plots that extend over thousands of miles and hundreds of people. They hide documents, produce forgeries with the elan of secret agents behind enemy lines, and even “rub out” cancer-stricken elderly women.
    How foolish we all are who believe that the president was simply born in the place where his parents and grandparents live. Why, that explanation is so simple! Where’s the fun in that?

  123. avatar
    HellT March 7, 2010 at 6:04 pm #

    When that “summer jaunt” was to HOME it makes a lot of sense. Tell me your children went away to college and didn’t return home for four years. Tell me that is true of any of your friends or neighbors children.

    I’ve worked at a university for nearly a quarter-century, and I can tell you that in the case of foreign students it is so routine as to provoke no comment. Most of them are attending school in the US through some sort of aid program. Aid programs do not pay for casual travel expenses. As a result, most of the foreign students do not routinely travel during school breaks, even now when air travel is cheap.

    You’ve forgotten (or are too young to remember) that air travel was prohibitively expensive throughout the 1960s and well into the 1970s. There’s a reason the term “jet set” was coined – back then, flying, *especially* flying international – was almost exclusively done by the wealthy.

    In those days, the cost of a college education was low and the cost of air travel was high. There’s no way an education aid program would’ve paid for casual flights to another country. Maybe in cases of family emergency, but not to just go home for the summer.

  124. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 6:07 pm #

    If Grandma Dunham filed a false birth report, it would not become important for her to come clean unless Obama won the election.

    The day before the election she dies of a supposed “long battle with cancer”. However, In 2008, she underwent both corneal transplant and hip replacement surgeries. Who performs corneal transplant and hip replacement surgeries on an 86 year old woman with end-stage cancer? OR was she not fighting that “long battle with cancer”?

    Adding to that mystery, Grandma Dunham was cremated. Her husband and daughter are buried in the Punchbowl, but she was cremated. Isn’t cremation the best way to hide poisoning?

    Mighty convenient coincidences surrounding Obama.

  125. avatar
    Whatever4 March 7, 2010 at 6:08 pm #

    I agree that foreign students often stayed at school over the summer. When I was growing up, my parents “sponsored” foreign students. That meant we had them over for holiday dinners (because they didn’t go home), picnics and activities in the summer (because they didn’t go home), and introduced them to American family life. The International Student office took them on short trips in the summer to visit NYC, Washington, DC, major-league baseball games, and other famous US locations to add to their education. Many of the students chose to stay even if they could afford to go home. This was their big chance to understand American life.

    Obama Sr. started at U of H in 1959, graduated a 4-year program in 1962. That’s three years. You need to go summers to do that.

  126. avatar
    HellT March 7, 2010 at 6:16 pm #

    That is prevailing theory.So far it has yet to be proven or disproven.We still don’t any coroborative irrutable evidence that definitely establishes that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    We still don’t have any corroborative irrefutable evidence that you two aren’t commie symp agents under orders from the Kremlin to push this bushwa in hopes of destabilizing the US government. Where’s the proof that you aren’t?

  127. avatar
    John March 7, 2010 at 6:22 pm #

    It really doesn’t matter if Obama was born in Hawaii, Obama is not NBC for 2 other reasons: His father was Kenyan citizen and the lost of his US citizenship in Indonesia. Although I doubt the NBC argument will ever be heard by a court,(Although, I do believe Obama is not NBC.) there may be more of the chance of proving the Indonesian problem.

  128. avatar
    nbc March 7, 2010 at 6:31 pm #

    If Grandma Dunham filed a false birth report, it would not become important for her to come clean unless Obama won the election.

    The day before the election she dies of a supposed “long battle with cancer”. However, In 2008, she underwent both corneal transplant and hip replacement surgeries. Who performs corneal transplant and hip replacement surgeries on an 86 year old woman with end-stage cancer? OR was she not fighting that “long battle with cancer”?

    Pathetic… Truly pathetic.

    You are a disgrace to our Country.

  129. avatar
    Mike March 7, 2010 at 6:32 pm #

    Birther fail is fail.

  130. avatar
    SluggoJD March 7, 2010 at 6:35 pm #

    Pure BS.

    MoCorrupt, is that you?

    Lying Lucas claims to have visited Kenya in February 2009 and he magically obtained Obama’s real Kenyan BC…

    easily debunked, because Maganga was not the Chief Hospital Adminstrator in February 2009.

    Regardless of how Maganga’s first name is spelled (Heltan vs Helton), the issue is irrelevant, because Maganga didn’t become the Chief Hospital Administrator until summer 2009.

    And that’s it. Game over.

  131. avatar
    Mike March 7, 2010 at 6:36 pm #

    You are a disgusting excuse for a human being.

  132. avatar
    Mike March 7, 2010 at 6:37 pm #

    Above comment directed at “Questions”, if it’s unclear.

  133. avatar
    SluggoJD March 7, 2010 at 6:39 pm #

    G, that’s so Lucas can claim over on his You Tube site that folks here are “shaking in their boots.”

  134. avatar
    SluggoJD March 7, 2010 at 6:40 pm #

    BBBBBBBbut, where are the baby footprints? 😉

  135. avatar
    John March 7, 2010 at 6:41 pm #

    Hey Obots! In light of what happen in Haiti, my Haiti children have been adopted by US citizens. What happens to the Haiti child’s citizenship after they are adopted? Do they become US citizens or stay Haitian citizens?

  136. avatar
    SFJeff March 7, 2010 at 6:42 pm #

    Come on out Questions- you are really close to saying what you really want to say- you can do it- you think the President murdered his beloved grandmother by poisoning her- in order to prevent her from revealing that she had forged his birth certificate. You manage to slander both of them in the same breath.

    You somehow think that this is is more likely than oh- perhaps President Obama was simply born in Hawaii and had his birth certificate registered like anyone else there.

    Yep- even though all the evidence any reasonable person would accept shows President Obama was born in Hawaii, you choose option B- the Whacko option- which requires unlikely travel by a pregnant teenage wife(or was she is wife- maybe the birth was illegitimate ooooooh!)to Africa, his Hawaiin grammie forging his birth certificate application, and then the President murdering his Grammie(the one who committed fraud on his behalf) to keep her quiet.

    You folks are really not just loons, but venomous loons.

  137. avatar
    Saint James March 7, 2010 at 6:46 pm #

    Questions: “Lucas Smith, Coast Province General Hospital birth certificate has withstood scrutiny. Nothing about it has been invalidated.”?

    What was invalidated is one of the most important feature of Lucas’ KBC. The purported administrator of the hospital was signed HELTON MAGANGA. Dr. Manganga’s name is HELTAN! Lucas came up with his Swahili explanation but can’t refute the fact that no one misspells his own name let alone a well educated person like Dr. Manganga. Dr. Manganga did not become the hospitals CA until months after Lucas supposedly gotten the KBC.

    Lucas claims to have travelled to different countries yet has not shown proof that he went to Kenya (or even Congo). I’ve tried to challenge him about this in his youtube channel using different monickers but was continuously blocked everytime I tried to pose the question. He has not shown a Kenyan customs stamped proof of his entry and exit dates from Kenya. He has not shown food, gas, hotel receipts from Kenya. He has not shown a visa stamped in his passport. He has not refuted the fact that he had shown purported pictures showing kenyan background that was actually taken from the Dominican Republic. His videos showing him presenting the KBC with black children in the background was definitely recorded in Santo Domingo with backgound voices speaking in Spanish not Swahili. You can even pick up accent which is not Swahili.

    Why don’t you ask Lucas to show proof that he went to Kenya. Let’s see if he’ll give you the proof.

  138. avatar
    SFJeff March 7, 2010 at 6:47 pm #

    John,

    I would imagine that any Haitian children adopted by U.S. parents would follow U.S. citizenship rules. And I am not going to bother to look them up, because last I looked, this is not relevant.

  139. avatar
    John March 7, 2010 at 6:53 pm #

    Why would US citizenship law overide Haitian Law?

  140. avatar
    SFJeff March 7, 2010 at 6:54 pm #

    Prove his father was Kenyan.

  141. avatar
    Greg March 7, 2010 at 6:54 pm #

    Questions, your speculations about Dunham are evil and borderline libel. Truly conservatives have no soul. I’d tell you to go to hell, but, the lack of a soul…

  142. avatar
    nbc March 7, 2010 at 6:58 pm #

    It doesn’t.
    In the US, US law reigns, in Haiti, Haitian law.

    Your point?

  143. avatar
    SFJeff March 7, 2010 at 6:58 pm #

    Are you being stupid or just acting stupid?

    In order to determine whether they are U.S. Citizens, U.S. citizenship laws would apply. In order to determine whether they remain Haitian citizens, Haitian citizenship rules would apply.

    For purposes of U.S. Citizenship though, U.S. laws would prevail- at least that is my thought- but I haven’t bothered to actually read any of this stuff since its stupid argument.

  144. avatar
    nbc March 7, 2010 at 7:02 pm #

    Per rules

    If both parents travel to receive their child and complete the adoption in Haiti, the child will become a U.S. citizen upon entering the United States. If only one parent of a married couple travels to Haiti, their child will become a U.S. citizen upon re-finalization of the adoption in the United States.

  145. avatar
    John March 7, 2010 at 7:11 pm #

    So does that mean the Haitian loses their Haitian citizenship?

  146. avatar
    SFJeff March 7, 2010 at 7:14 pm #

    Its pretty safe to slander dead people.

  147. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 7:17 pm #

    When you determined that Obama Sr. would have had to attend classes during the summer in order to graduate in the Spring of 1962, did you include the correspondence courses he took before he arrived? Do you even know that U of H offered summer courses in 1961?

    Wouldn’t it be easier to just request Obama Sr’s records from U of H? That’s what I intend to do.

  148. avatar
    Rickey March 7, 2010 at 7:24 pm #

    HellT says:

    In those days, the cost of a college education was low and the cost of air travel was high. There’s no way an education aid program would’ve paid for casual flights to another country.

    I was in the Navy in the late sixties, and I flew military standby between California and New York several times. Military standby was 1/2 the price of a reserved coach ticket, and cost $75 each way – meaning that forty years ago a round trip coach ticket from San Francisco to New York cost $300. $300 in 1970 dollars is $1657.00 in 2010 dollars.

    A round-trip flight for two from Honolulu to Kenya in 1961 would have cost far more than Barack Obama Sr.’s annual tuition at the University of Hawaii.

    “Questions” would have us believe that Stanley Ann’s parents ponied up thousands of dollars to put their seven-months pregnant daughter and son-in-law on a plane to Kenya, thus ensuring that they would not be present when their first grandchild was born.

    Talk about stretching implausibility beyond its limits.

  149. avatar
    PaulG March 7, 2010 at 7:24 pm #

    Re: SFJeff’s imagined phone dialog

    Excellent, except when Newhart does it, he only gives one side of the conversation.

  150. avatar
    nbc March 7, 2010 at 7:27 pm #

    When you determined that Obama Sr. would have had to attend classes during the summer in order to graduate in the Spring of 1962, did you include the correspondence courses he took before he arrived? Do you even know that U of H offered summer courses in 1961?

    Wouldn’t it be easier to just request Obama Sr’s records from U of H? That’s what I intend to do.

    Good for you. Let us know what you find out… Will you also report when the facts do not align with your ‘possibilities’?

    The question is simple: Did the sponsoring agencies have sufficient money for transportation of the students.
    History shows that they had barely enough to pay for the students to be transported to the US, so the idea that these students were sponsored to go home every summer, rather than be allowed to supplement their income, seems rather, well, far fetched.

  151. avatar
    Saint James March 7, 2010 at 7:30 pm #

    Questions: “Show me evidence that a valid birth reports was filed in Hawaii. Who signed it? What hospital is indicated? Who was the doctor?”

    You have now gained a new recruit. I DECLARE THAT I’M NOW A BIRTHER AND WILL THINK LIKE A BIRTHER.

    So Questions from now on I’m on your side.

    Presidents George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, Geroge H. Bush, Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon are all not qualified to be presidents. They are not natural born citizens!

    None of those Presidents have shown their birth certificates with the signature of the attending physicians and the hospitals where they were born. Barbara Bush can’t even prove that she was born in the USA. she has to show her long form certificate with the physician’s signature and the hospital where she was born.

    Hey Questions, we are now allies. Let’s fight these birther debunkers shall we? LOL

  152. avatar
    Saint James March 7, 2010 at 7:45 pm #

    John, I give you my 1000% support. Damn these birther debunker. Obama, BushJr, Bush Sr, Clinton, Reagan, Carter,and Nixon are ALL ILLEGITIMATE PRESIDENTS! They have not shown their birth certificates with the doctors’ signature and the hospital listed.

    You see John, I believe in our crusade to take back our America. Those 69 millions who voted for Obama are all illegal aliens. Let’s work together to deport those 69 million people. They are not natural born citizens. Yes John, let’s join forces together for united we stand, divided we fall!

    Hey John, let’s get Orly Taitz elected President. You can move her dental chair in the oval office. Yes, you and orly can do all the humping in that oval office!

    Yes John! Long Live the Birthers! Down with those 69 million illegal aliens who voted for Obama!!! HURRAH!

  153. avatar
    richCares March 7, 2010 at 7:47 pm #

    “Ann enrolls in extension classes at the University of Washington”

    she also took many trips on the Seattle area ferrys, I also took these beautiful ferry trips and often sent postcards from the ship, especialy on the Vancouver Island trip, What a beautiful place.

    Birthers can read conspiracies in anything. Hating Obama does that.

  154. avatar
    Rickey March 7, 2010 at 7:51 pm #

    Questions says:

    The day before the election she dies of a supposed “long battle with cancer”. However, In 2008, she underwent both corneal transplant and hip replacement surgeries. Who performs corneal transplant and hip replacement surgeries on an 86 year old woman with end-stage cancer? OR was she not fighting that “long battle with cancer”?

    She underwent a corneal transplant because she was going blind and wanted to be able to see during whatever number of days she had left.

    And there is no evidence that she had “hip replacement” surgery. As the New York Times reported, she broke her hip and was admitted to the hospital for surgery. It was then that her doctors discovered that her cancer had advanced to the point where she had only a short time to live.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/25/us/politics/25obama.html?_r=1

    Adding to that mystery, Grandma Dunham was cremated. Her husband and daughter are buried in the Punchbowl, but she was cremated. Isn’t cremation the best way to hide poisoning?

    Another birther lie. Stanley Ann also was cremated, in 1995. You people just make this stuff up – as an adult child of a veteran, Stanley Ann wasn’t even eligible to be buried in Punchbowl.

    http://www.hawaiimagazine.com/blogs/hawaii_today/2008/12/24/Obama_bids_farewell_to_grandmother

    Go back under the rock you crawled out from.

  155. avatar
    richCares March 7, 2010 at 7:54 pm #

    on anothe DR. Conspiracy thread it is documented that anyone can request a birth certificate from Kenya. Pay the fee and get one. So, dear idiot “question” & “john”, go get a real Kenya BC or STFU! It’s easy to do, but we know you won’t because you are an ahole and want to keep your fantasy.

  156. avatar
    Saint James March 7, 2010 at 8:04 pm #

    John, don’t ask these Obots, they will give us the wrong information. Let’s prevent these Haitian adoptions. We must keep our America pure. Let’s always be aware and cognizant that America will one day be taken back by us…the Birthers! Orly Taitz must be voted to be our next President! Let’s see to it that the dental chair goes with Orly to Washington DC. Hmm Hmm! humping on the dental chair is errotic John!

  157. avatar
    BatGuano March 7, 2010 at 8:08 pm #

    “Questions” would have us believe that Stanley Ann’s parents ponied up thousands of dollars to put their seven-months pregnant daughter and son-in-law on a plane to Kenya, thus ensuring that they would not be present when their first grandchild was born.

    ……and after forking over the cash to send her daughter half way around the world, grandma decides that the baby has to be a natural born citizen ( plain ordinary citizen won’t do ) so she forges documents that the folks of hawaii accept willy-nilly at face value ( or grandma used her immense influence over the DoH ) which she is completely at peace with for 48years. then she gets poisoned and cremated by her grandson.

    it works.

  158. avatar
    Questions March 7, 2010 at 8:27 pm #

    “grandma decides that the baby has to be a natural born citizen ( plain ordinary citizen won’t do )”

    I don’t want to spoil your fantasy, but if Obama Jr. was born in Kenya he wouldn’t even be a citizen of the United States. Ann was only 18 at the time. She would have needed to be 19 (5 years after the age of 14) in order to pass citizenship. The motivation was citizenship, not natural-born status.

  159. avatar
    nbC March 7, 2010 at 8:32 pm #

    The motivation was citizenship, not natural-born status.

    Of course, there appears to be no evidence that Granny was somehow involved here.

    As to citizenship, again the DOH of Hawaii has determined that President Obama is a US born citizen.

  160. avatar
    BatGuano March 7, 2010 at 8:37 pm #

    “grandma decides that the baby has to be a natural born citizen ( plain ordinary citizen won’t do )”I don’t want to spoil your fantasy, but if Obama Jr. was born in Kenya he wouldn’t even be a citizen of the United States. Ann was only 18 at the time. She would have needed to be 19 (5 years after the age of 14) in order to pass citizenship. The motivation was citizenship, not natural-born status.

    i thought this aspect already got debunked but…… maybe i’m wrong. so, besides that part are you good with my assessment ?

  161. avatar
    nbc March 7, 2010 at 9:09 pm #

    Not unless Obama Sr was already married, Stanley Ann Dunham was too young to transfer citizenship to her son if he had been born in a foreign country.

  162. avatar
    SFJeff March 7, 2010 at 9:10 pm #

    “I don’t want to spoil your fantasy, but if Obama Jr. was born in Kenya he wouldn’t even be a citizen of the United States.”

    Assuming you are correct- this would be another reason why the very pregnant Ann Durham Obama wouldn’t travel to Kenya.

    Question is then- if infant Obama was not a U.S. citizen- how did she get him back into the United States?

    I am guessing you are going to pull something out of your…ear… and say that in 1961 babies didn’t need papers or maybe you will imagine some additional frauds or payoffs.

    The point is- each time you are given a logical answer you folks make up some other fiction to support your crazy ass line of logic.

  163. avatar
    misha March 7, 2010 at 9:29 pm #

    “where are the baby footprints?”

    The prints are right here!

    Glad I could show them to you.

  164. avatar
    The Sheriff's A Ni- March 7, 2010 at 9:35 pm #

    You know, the question I want answered is why certain Birthers stick to certain threads: AnswersIDon’tLike in this thread, Slamdunked in the Orly thread. Thinks that make you go ‘hmmmmmmmmmm’.

  165. avatar
    Rickey March 7, 2010 at 10:29 pm #

    nbc says:

    Not unless Obama Sr was already married, Stanley Ann Dunham was too young to transfer citizenship to her son if he had been born in a foreign country.

    Absent some court ruling which clarifies what the law then in effect meant, I’m not so sure about that.

    It could be argued that the law simply meant that the mother had to be physically present in the United States for at least parts of five calendar years after reaching the age of 14. Stanley Ann turned 14 on November 29, 1956. After she turned 14, she lived in the United States for the rest of 1956, all of 1957, 1958, 1959 and 1960, and the first half of 1961 before Obama was born on August 4, 1961. If you look at it that way, she lived in the United States for six years after her 14th birthday.

    I believe that my interpretation of the law can be supported by the fact that “The period of physical presence need not be continuous.” This means that the mother didn’t have to be in the United States for 1826 days after reaching 14 for her to be eligible to pass on citizenship (by all accounts, Stanley Ann was in the U.S. for 1714 days between her 14th birthday and Obama’s birth). The law in effect in 1961 seems to me to be a least a bit ambiguous on the residency requirement, and I would expect that under those circumstances a court would rule in favor of citizenship if it came to that.

  166. avatar
    chufho March 7, 2010 at 10:47 pm #

    granny

  167. avatar
    chufho March 7, 2010 at 10:54 pm #

    this is the most logic used I have seen Thanks questions.
    They all seem to base their opinions on a speculation. The falicy is not to want to see or even ask for the truth so that no speculation is left.

  168. avatar
    chufho March 7, 2010 at 11:06 pm #

    you want to avoid the evidence and will not ask

  169. avatar
    chufho March 7, 2010 at 11:07 pm #

    its happening now you just dont know it

  170. avatar
    chufho March 7, 2010 at 11:11 pm #

    have you ever been to chi town, if not take a trip and ask what happens if you dont cooperate

  171. avatar
    chufho March 7, 2010 at 11:13 pm #

    your so full of

  172. avatar
    chufho March 7, 2010 at 11:18 pm #

    your untruthful

  173. avatar
    chufho March 7, 2010 at 11:19 pm #

    your not an american are you

  174. avatar
    nbC March 7, 2010 at 11:37 pm #

    Absent some court ruling which clarifies what the law then in effect meant, I’m not so sure about that.

    It could be argued that the law simply meant that the mother had to be physically present in the United States for at least parts of five calendar years after reaching the age of 14. Stanley Ann turned 14 on November 29, 1956. After she turned 14, she lived in the United States for the rest of 1956, all of 1957, 1958, 1959 and 1960, and the first half of 1961 before Obama was born on August 4, 1961. If you look at it that way, she lived in the United States for six years after her 14th birthday.

    Nope she lived for less than five elapsed years. Creative but not too convincing.
    The law at that time was hardly ambiguous

  175. avatar
    Greg March 7, 2010 at 11:43 pm #

    Seek professional help, chufho.

  176. avatar
    Greg March 7, 2010 at 11:46 pm #

    You failed geography, didn’t you?

    Honolulu isn’t in Chicago. It’s in a whole different state.

  177. avatar
    misha March 8, 2010 at 12:10 am #

    What do you expect from a conservative. Look at Agnew. When the story broke, he said it was a smear campaign by the media and liberals.

    Beck, Taitz, Limbaugh, Farah – their stock-in-trade is libel, slander, and innuendo. The same crowd did it to PM Rabin. You should have listened to what was said, bcause he dared shake hands with Arafat, until finally a lone wolf came along. Then those momsers started running for cover.

    When Brewer and Shipley recorded One Toke Over The Line, Nixon called them “public miscreants.” Take about kettle and pot.

    SOP

  178. avatar
    G March 8, 2010 at 12:23 am #

    this is the most logic used I have seen Thanks questions.
    They all seem to base their opinions on a speculation. The falicy is not to want to see or even ask for the truth so that no speculation is left.

    Oh, the irony! Oh, the projection!

    All Birthers have is weak, unfounded and unsupported speculation. I’ve never seen a group more allergic to the truth than the Birthers.

    BTW – the correct spelling is fallacy.

  179. avatar
    richCares March 8, 2010 at 12:25 am #

    the correct word is “you’re”, and yes chfho you are untruthful!

  180. avatar
    BatGuano March 8, 2010 at 12:32 am #

    your not an american are you

    dual citizen actually. born in the states to resident alien parents. thanks for asking.

  181. avatar
    Rickey March 8, 2010 at 12:34 am #

    chufho says:

    your not an american are you

    Are you talking to me?

  182. avatar
    richCares March 8, 2010 at 12:35 am #

    hey chufho, why don’t you and question request Obama’s Birth Certificate from Kenya, according to Kenyan law anyone can make that request. It is really easy to do, but most birthers are unwilling to do so, (cause they won’t like the answer). So make that request, go get it, prove your point or STFU!

  183. avatar
    nbc March 8, 2010 at 12:47 am #

    Fukino’s statement must be derived from some FACT or DATA contained in Obama’s Vital Record. Fukino under the law, must disclose what that fact is and release it.

    She has already released it. Barack Obama was born in Honolulu

  184. avatar
    SFJeff March 8, 2010 at 1:24 am #

    so thats why 66 million voters voted for President Obama- they knew what would happen if they didn’t cooperate.

  185. avatar
    SFJeff March 8, 2010 at 1:26 am #

    Chfho needs to buy more vowels

  186. avatar
    SFJeff March 8, 2010 at 1:33 am #

    It just ocurred to me- remember how Sven and his sock puppets keep asking why nobody comes forth from the hospital in Hawaii who remembers Obama being born. Because you know- a biracial baby being born in Hawaii was such an unusual event?

    If you think that was unusual, how about a very pregnant white American woman coming to Kenya with her husband to give birth in some obscure village? There should be witnesses coming out of the woodwork remembering that event.

    Then a few days after giving birth- wouldn’t someone remember this same unusual situation as she somehow manages to convince the U.S. embassy to give her new baby papers- what kind I don’t know since apparently her baby wouldn’t be an American- to let her come back to Hawaii- you know that 48 hours or so air travel.

    How about people on the plane- I am sure they would remember this tired sore white woman travelling with a biracial new born- that can’t have been common.

    Funny how none of them have come forward. But the more money Birthers throw around I bet someone comes forward offering to testify that they were there.

  187. avatar
    misha March 8, 2010 at 1:45 am #

    Do you know why the Polish language does not have vowels? Centuries ago, when barbarian tribes were marauding across Europe, they came to what is now Poland. The Poles did not have anything worth stealing, so they stole their vowels. They’ve never been returned.

    It’s a tragedy, like the stolen art.

  188. avatar
    misha March 8, 2010 at 2:52 am #

    Why is Mattel part of this discussion?

  189. avatar
    misha March 8, 2010 at 2:54 am #

    Glenn Beck raped and murdered a girl, in 1990.

    Was’t that a cruel thing to do?

  190. avatar
    myson March 8, 2010 at 3:57 am #

    If Kenya hasnt or doesnt verify the FKBC (Fake Kenyan birth certificate) then HOW do You know its real ???. The very first thing that Birther ie u shd have done is verify then u can claim it is real !!!
    What if Kenya claims its a forgery wd that satisfy you ? i suspect No !!!

  191. avatar
    Hawaiiborn March 8, 2010 at 3:57 am #

    When that “summer jaunt” was to HOME it makes a lot of sense. Tell me your children went away to college and didn’t return home for four years. Tell me that is true of any of your friends or neighbors children.

    sorry, but when I did a summer abroad in Japan, I only returned back home to Hawaii once for Xmas, because I knew it was the last xmas that I would spend with my paternal grandfather (he died in the spring following). I was on scholarship, however, I couldn’t just up and return home anytime I liked. It was $600 for a RT during the “off times’ and forget about visiting people during the holidays; try double that. My family wasn’t rich, and I only earned the equivalent of $1400 per month for tutoring English.

    So I spent my summers, in Japan. Where its almost the next to worst time to be there. I took summer classes so I could not be bored.

    And I was only 2900 miles away from home. Obama Sr. was from a country a half a world away.

  192. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny March 8, 2010 at 4:02 am #

    Misha, byłeś w Krakowie? Miasto posiadało wiele skarbów sztuki, które były warte kradzież! I kobiet.
    Just to prove you wrong, drug. If Questions wants to know what it means, he should go to the place I send all birfers to.

    [sorry, due to a malfunction on my computer – no, I haven’t visited Orly’s site recently – this got posted in the Chaniss thread as well)

  193. avatar
    Hawaiiborn March 8, 2010 at 4:19 am #

    So Dr. Fukino verified that Obama’s grandmother filed a birth report.

    wow, you must see words that aren’t there. that is not what she said.

  194. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny March 8, 2010 at 4:21 am #

    People cannot imagine what international travel between Mombasa and Hawaii would have been like in those days. There was no international airport at Mombasa. The kind of plane that landed in Nairobi then would have had two rows for passengers to sit in on both sides of the plane. And the furthest connection would have been from London. No way the Obamas could have got to Kenya from the other side of the globe. The perfect voyage for a heavily pregnant woman. And of course, physically impossible to do within the time window provided by the Hawaii birth certificate.

    I have film footage of Nairobi airport from 1978 – planes landing within 200 yards of the arrivals and departures hall and cars parking between the planes and that hall. Air travel was still for the jet set then and there were so few planes landing and taking off that delivering and taking the esteemed passengers straight to and from the plane in a taxi, a Merc or a Rolls Royce was no problem. There was a passage way going straight from the airfield to the street under the hall, which seems to double up as a control tower as well. Imagine how primitive it must have been 17 years before.

  195. avatar
    Hawaiiborn March 8, 2010 at 4:22 am #

    Actually no, a lawyer has not business requesting the records of anyone, as stated in Hawaii Law. The lawyer must be working on behalf of someone who has vested interested in those private records (namely family or relatives) that need the birth records as a form of evidence (mostly to prove being related to the individual or to settle financial obligations).

    sorry, but your argument has been debunked already. Nice that you repeat it like the parrot you are.

  196. avatar
    Hawaiiborn March 8, 2010 at 4:30 am #

    Because you know- a biracial baby being born in Hawaii was such an unusual event?If you think that was unusual, how about a very pregnant white American woman coming to Kenya with her husband to give birth in some obscure village? There should be witnesses coming out of the woodwork remembering that event.</blockquote]

    yeah gee. considering the make up during 1961 it was majority Asians (Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Okinawan, Filipinos) ; Caucasians and African Americans made up for a total of 10-12% of the population in Hawaii.

    Kapiolani also is in the area of Manoa/McCully, which was predominantly the "rich" area of Honolulu, meaning more affluent Asians and Caucasians lived in this area. It wouldn't be strange for the hospital to have a white woman giving birth there; nor was it odd for the woman to have a bi-racial child.

  197. avatar
    SvenMagnussen March 8, 2010 at 7:22 am #

    It just ocurred to me- remember how Sven and his sock puppets keep asking why nobody comes forth from the hospital in Hawaii who remembers Obama being born. Because you know- a biracial baby being born in Hawaii was such an unusual event?If you think that was unusual, how about a very pregnant white American woman coming to Kenya with her husband to give birth in some obscure village? There should be witnesses coming out of the woodwork remembering that event.
    Then a few days after giving birth- wouldn’t someone remember this same unusual situation as she somehow manages to convince the U.S. embassy to give her new baby papers- what kind I don’t know since apparently her baby wouldn’t be an American- to let her come back to Hawaii- you know that 48 hours or so air travel.
    How about people on the plane- I am sure they would remember this tired sore white woman travelling with a biracial new born- that can’t have been common.
    Funny how none of them have come forward. But the more money Birthers throw around I bet someone comes forward offering to testify that they were there.

    Sven and his sock puppets?

    I’m pretty sure I’m alone in my theory that a hospital, birth doctor and hospital admin is not listed on BHO’s II birth certificate because the vital record was “filed” by Order of the Hawai’i District Court.

    The Court, in 1971-72, heard testimony and examined evidence and ruled BHO II was born in Honolulu, HI on Aug. 4, 1961. Consequently, an Order was issued to the Hawai’i DoH to create a vital record reflecting the information on the Order and it was “filed” by the Hawai’i DoH registrar.

    Done. The Court ruling is assumed to be correct. BHO II is a native born American.

    The problem is we know very little about what happened between 1961 and 1971.

    Did the U.S. State Dept. issue a Certificate of Loss of Nationality to BHO II or Barry Soetoro?

    What passport did BHO II used to travel internationally in the early 80’s? Did BHO II have a U.S. Passport at this time?

    Why does BHO II have multiple SSN’s?

    How many SS-5’s did BHO II file with the SSA and what information did he supply to verify his citizenship status?

    What was BHO II’s citizenship status when he attended Occidental College?

  198. avatar
    Mike March 8, 2010 at 7:51 am #

    I’m pretty sure I’m alone in my theory that a hospital, birth doctor and hospital admin is not listed on BHO’s II birth certificate because the vital record was “filed” by Order of the Hawai’i District Court.

    Lucky for everyone, really. I think having two people like you around would actually create a singularity of stupidity and collapse the Earth into a black hole of Duh.

  199. avatar
    misha March 8, 2010 at 9:00 am #

    In 1961, travel would have been on a prop plane, avg. air speed 325mph, which means changing planes 3 or 4 times; the trip would have been 72 hours at a mininum. Airfare was several thousand dollars – 1961 dollars. The only way for BHO Sr. to have sent a birth announcement, was by cable. IIRC, when my uncle sent a cable to NY from Israel in 1963, it was .35/word, which is about $2.43/word today.

    Here is a deconstruction of that theory.

  200. avatar
    misha March 8, 2010 at 9:19 am #

    One more note: Ann Dunham would have needed a yellow fever vaccination, before going. Such vaccinations are contraindicated for pregnant women. No vaccination, no trip.

    Also, no central electricity anywhere except Nairobi. I’m sure the hospital in Mombasa had enough diesel for their generator, especially since an American woman was there. IA

  201. avatar
    richCares March 8, 2010 at 9:38 am #

    “What was BHO II’s citizenship status when he attended Occidental College?”

    curious, just where did this idiotic claim come from. was it Obama’s mention of “Barry” as a nickname. Birthers are amazing at fabricating piddling crap.

    if you don’t like Obama, don’t vote for him, support another candidate. The birther crap just makes you look foolish!

  202. avatar
    milspec March 8, 2010 at 9:49 am #

    “That is prevailing theory.”

    Only with nutbergers.

  203. avatar
    SvenMagnussen March 8, 2010 at 9:58 am #

    Extensive research chronicled in a newspaper article, today.

    [Selective Service] Registration is also a condition for U.S. citizenship if the man first arrived in the United States before his 26th birthday.

    If Obama arrived in Hawaii as a citizen of Indonesia, as his school records and mother’s divorce records indicate, and he didn’t register with SS, he could have been barred from obtaining U.S. citizenship and may not be one now.

    Sonoran News

    I may not be alone, after all.

  204. avatar
    Scientist March 8, 2010 at 10:31 am #

    Theories, schmeories.

    The key is in the Constitution and the basic rules of English grammar:
    “No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President”

    Does it say, “a natural born Citizen OF THE UNITED STATES”? It does not. Therefore one is eligible if one is a natural born Citizen OF ANY DAMN PLACE ON EARTH. There is no other way to read the sentence. The President does not HAVE to be a US citizen, only a natural born Citizen (of wherever he/she was born). The only exception is if they were qualifying under the “grandfather clause”-then they had to have been “a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution”. But Obama is not, so he only needs to be a natural born Citizen of somewhere.

    By the way, if the Framers intended that the President be a United States citizen, they could have said so, as they did for Representatives and Senators. Or they could have said- “a natural born Citizen of the United States”. However, they did not and it is the words they actually wrote, not coulda, woulda, shoulda that counts.

  205. avatar
    Kathryn N March 8, 2010 at 11:04 am #

    Orly, is that you?

  206. avatar
    Lupin March 8, 2010 at 11:21 am #

    Most of your questions have already been answered and debunked by facts, such as the interview with the guy who remembered the birth of the baby with the funny name in Hawaii, or Obama visiting France while a student with a US passport.

    Aren’t you tired of coming across like a demented bigot?

  207. avatar
    misha March 8, 2010 at 11:42 am #

    That’s right. Obama was probably born on Krypton, so he is a natural born citizen. You’re right, it just says “natural born.” I think they meant to elimate those from a C-section, or anyone from an immaculate conception. Everyone else is OK.

    Remember, no man of woman born can harm Macbeth. Take that, birthers.

  208. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 8, 2010 at 11:55 am #

    The Sonoran New is being silly.

    If Obama arrived in Hawaii as a citizen of Indonesia, as his school records and mother’s divorce records indicate, and he didn’t register with SS, he could have been barred from obtaining U.S. citizenship and may not be one now.

    That’s like saying: “If the moon were made of green cheese, mice would be happy there.”

    The moon is not made of green cheese, and Obama was never a citizen of Indonesia, and he registered for the draft as required by law.

    The original report from 2008 from Fox News quoted the Indonesian school as saying that they put the father’s nationality and religion on all the registration forms, so this form does not really say Barack Obama was an Indonesian citizen, and even if the school form did say this, it’s not a legal document. As for the divorce papers, they don’t even hint that Barack Obama was an Indonesian citizen.

  209. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 8, 2010 at 11:59 am #

    SvenMagnussen: I’m pretty sure I’m alone in my theory that a hospital, birth doctor and hospital admin is not listed on BHO’s II birth certificate because the vital record was “filed” by Order of the Hawai’i District Court.

    So precisely how does a birth that happens on Friday night get registered through a district court order the following Tuesday? I think you are probably alone on this one.

  210. avatar
    misha March 8, 2010 at 12:03 pm #

    “If the moon were made of green cheese, mice would be happy there.”

    Well, they would be. Also, if my grandmother had wheels, she would have been a car.

  211. avatar
    SFJeff March 8, 2010 at 12:07 pm #

    Hardly extensive research. This is a conspiracy opinion piece pretending to be news. The fact that they theorize that President Obama was both a citizen of Indonesia and that he didn’t register with the SS# shows that this is opinion. The content- complete with more analysis of how numbers don’t match up is the bread and butter of conspiracy nuts.

    When lacking evidence, look for postmarks that don’t match and numbers out of order. But the real evidence unearthed in the articel? The real evidence is that Obama registered for the Selective Service. That is the only evidence that would be admissable. The rest is gobblety gook typical of those who grasp at any inconsistancy as a sign of a vast(yet sloppy) conspiracy.

  212. avatar
    Questions March 8, 2010 at 12:17 pm #

    “Infants 6 to 9 months of age and pregnant women should be vaccinated only if they must travel to areas where there is an epidemic of yellow fever and they cannot be protected from mosquito bites.”
    http://www.drugs.com/cons/yellow-fever-vaccine-subcutaneous-injection.html

    Contraindicated means that they don’t get the vaccine unless they will be traveling to a place where yellow fever is epidemic. It does not mean that pregnant women are prohibited from travel, or that they would not receive the vaccine if they travel to that area.

    mirha said “Also, no central electricity anywhere except Nairobi.”

    I guess that’s why the “MOMBASA ELECTRIC POWER & LIGHT COMPANY” was founded in 1909, and why the Mombasa Hospital got electricity the following year. But, according to misha, CPGH didn’t have power in 1961.

  213. avatar
    Rickey March 8, 2010 at 12:23 pm #

    SvenMagnussen says:

    I’m pretty sure I’m alone in my theory that a hospital, birth doctor and hospital admin is not listed on BHO’s II birth certificate because the vital record was “filed” by Order of the Hawai’i District Court.

    That information is not listed on Obama’s COLB because there is no place for it on the COLB.

    But yes, you are pretty much alone in your crackpot theories.

    Why does BHO II have multiple SSN’s?

    There is no evidence that Obama has ever used more than one SSN. This is the standard disclaimer which LexisNexis includes on every database search:

    Important: The Public Records and commercially available data sources used on reports have errors. Data is cometimes entered poorly, processed incorrectly and generally not free from defect. This system should not be relied upon as definitively accurate. Before relying on any data this system supplies, it should be independently verified.

    Show us a document that Obama signed – a credit application, mortgage documents, whatever – which shows anything other than his 042-XX-XXXX SSN, and you have something to talk about. Until then, it’s all fantasy.

  214. avatar
    misha March 8, 2010 at 12:25 pm #

    How do fuel cells work?

  215. avatar
    misha March 8, 2010 at 12:35 pm #

    @Questions: How do fuel cells work?

  216. avatar
    Rickey March 8, 2010 at 12:39 pm #

    This reminds me that I flew from San Francisco to Clark AFB in the Philippines in 1967. At that time even a full-sized jet could not make it without stopping to refuel. We had to refuel on Wake Island, and the trip took nearly 24 hours. That trip was roughly 4,000 air miles LESS than a flight from Honolulu to Nairobi. I was 19 years old and decidedly not pregnant, but still it was exhausting and uncomfortable to be crammed into a coach seat for that long.

    The idea that a highly-educated woman who was seven months pregnant would have embarked on such an arduous and expensive trip to a third-world country is absurd on its face.

  217. avatar
    misha March 8, 2010 at 12:45 pm #

    “The idea that a highly-educated woman who was seven months pregnant would have embarked on such an arduous and expensive trip to a third-world country is absurd on its face.”

    Plus, the only way to get to Mombasa would be by train. I stand corrected: there was central electricity in Mombasa, but the cable to the hospital was strung along trees. An iffy source.

    Birthers are long on innuendo, but short on proof. I’ll remember how conservatives trashed Obama when I go into the voting booth.

  218. avatar
    Rickey March 8, 2010 at 12:55 pm #

    Not quite.

    According to the CDC, “The safety of yellow fever vaccination during pregnancy has not been established, and the vaccine should be administered only if travel to an endemic area is unavoidable and if an increased risk for exposure exists…Pregnant women who must travel to areas where the risk of yellow fever is high should be vaccinated and, despite the apparent safety of this vaccine, infants born to these women should be monitored closely for evidence of congenital infection and other possible adverse effects resulting from yellow fever vaccination.”

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/preg-guide.htm#women

    If you were a woman pregnant with your first child, would you voluntarily take the risk of getting a yellow fever vaccine? Of course you wouldn’t.

  219. avatar
    Questions March 8, 2010 at 12:55 pm #

    Why was Obama’s SSN issued in Connecticut? Did he ever live there?

  220. avatar
    SvenMagnussen March 8, 2010 at 12:58 pm #

    SvenMagnussen: I’m pretty sure I’m alone in my theory that a hospital, birth doctor and hospital admin is not listed on BHO’s II birth certificate because the vital record was “filed” by Order of the Hawai’i District Court.So precisely how does a birth that happens on Friday night get registered through a district court order the following Tuesday? I think you are probably alone on this one.

    The Order was written by a Hawai’i District Court Judge in late 1971 to early 1972 after hearing testimony and examining evidence about a birth that occurred on Aug. 4, 1961 with the father identified as Barack Hussein Obama and the mother identified as Stanley Ann Dunham.

    The Court did not rule on which hospital BHO II was born at, so a birth doctor’s name is not available. If BHO II would unseal the Court record dissolving his adoption by Soetoro, then we may be able to find out more about BHO’s II original birth record.

  221. avatar
    nbc March 8, 2010 at 1:00 pm #

    You don’t have to have lived in Connecticut for a SSN to be issued there.
    A minor mystery at best… Certainly no evidence of any fraud.

    Pathetic

  222. avatar
    nbc March 8, 2010 at 1:01 pm #

    Again, nothing really shows any evidence that Obama was born in Kenya.

    Sad…

  223. avatar
    nbc March 8, 2010 at 1:03 pm #

    Of course, the original birth record is reflected in the COLB which shows him born on US soil.

    Loser

  224. avatar
    Questions March 8, 2010 at 1:10 pm #

    The only way to get to Mombasa was by train?

    You better break the news to the people who were operating the Port Reitz Airport.

  225. avatar
    nbc March 8, 2010 at 1:19 pm #

    Again, nothing new here…

  226. avatar
    Questions March 8, 2010 at 1:23 pm #

    Now we have levels of mysteries?

    “You don’t have to have lived in Connecticut for a SSN to be issued there.”

    I know. He was just passing thru Connecticut when he decided that he needed a SSN. He applied for it in CT, and had them mail it to his NY address.

    It’s an anomaly because it does not correspond to the record presented.

  227. avatar
    nbc March 8, 2010 at 1:24 pm #

    What Q has failed so far is to show that the AASF, which could not even supply sufficient funding for the students to come to the US would somehow sponsor these students to return to Kenya for the summer.

    The lack of evidence, logic and reasoning are staggering.
    Without a solid foundation, the conclusions become quite ill supported

  228. avatar
    BatGuano March 8, 2010 at 1:25 pm #

    The only way to get to Mombasa was by train?You better break the news to the people who were operating the Port Reitz Airport.

    “Mombasa Airport was originally a military airfield called Port Reitz Airport, but in the 1970s the government in Kenya decided to expand the airport in order to accommodate larger planes for what they felt would be increased tourism.”

  229. avatar
    nbc March 8, 2010 at 1:27 pm #

    I know. He was just passing thru Connecticut when he decided that he needed a SSN. He applied for it in CT, and had them mail it to his NY address.

    Nope, it’s the location to which you have it mailed which determines which address is being used.

    It’s an anomaly of no relevance.

  230. avatar
    Hawaiiborn March 8, 2010 at 1:36 pm #

    March 8

    9/11 Truth Movement ranks as #1 as being the most allergic to the truth. Birthers come in a very close second.

  231. avatar
    Questions March 8, 2010 at 1:38 pm #

    “If you were a woman pregnant with your first child, would you voluntarily take the risk of getting a yellow fever vaccine? Of course you wouldn’t.”

    1. An 18 year old woman whose overbearing Kenyan husband saying that his child will be born on his soil may have greatly influenced her decision.

    2. Your introduction of Yellow Fever Vaccinations is premature. At this point you have not yet established that such a vaccine was required. I haven’t been able to locate anything from 1961, but I did find that in 1956 the certificate of vaccination was only required if entering from infected areas.

  232. avatar
    SFJeff March 8, 2010 at 1:41 pm #

    Here is what I would say if I were Obama and I were asked about where his SS# was issued. I would say “I don’t know and I don’t care”

    I don’t even remember applying for my social security card. It was I think when I was 14. I have no idea where my parents sent the application.

    So yes it might be a minor mystery- one that President Obama has no reason to spend a moment looking for an answer to.

    But go ahead and spend time researching it. Lots of time.

  233. avatar
    nbc March 8, 2010 at 1:52 pm #

    Truly incredible speculations….

    And still refusing to address the simple fact that there is no evidence of such a visit and that the AAFS did not have the funds to have students return to Kenya for the summer.

    Pathetic

  234. avatar
    SFJeff March 8, 2010 at 1:52 pm #

    “1. An 18 year old woman whose overbearing Kenyan husband saying that his child will be born on his soil may have greatly influenced her decision.”

    Guesses piled on top of guesses. Find some real evidence that President Obama was born in Kenya. If it happened, it shouldn’t be hard- heck find proof that his mother travelled to Kenya ever.

    You can try to paint it anyway you want but it comes down to one of two realities:
    a) President Obama was born in Hawaii, as per his memoirs, per his BC, per contemporary birth announcements, per Janet Okubo’s announcement or
    b) President Obama’s mother secretly travelled to Kenya when she was 7 months pregnants- spending upwards of 72 hours flying- so she can have the child in a third world country that she has never visited before. Then- because somehow now she is concerned about citizenship- she contacts her American mother and has her file fraudualant birth papers for her son. Then somehow she manages to transport newborn Barrack that 72 hours back to Hawaii without any citizenship papers for Barrack, and then years later manages to get him a U.S. passport so he can travel to Indonesia. Oh and then to cover it all up President Obama murders his grannie, but somehow doesn’t find it necessary to murder his Kenyan step grannie.

    Two choices- one the side a reasonable rational person would take. The other is the one that believes the U.S. planned 9/11, that Clinton murdered Vince Foster and that astronauts never landed on the moon. You pick.

  235. avatar
    Hawaiiborn March 8, 2010 at 1:52 pm #

    1. An 18 year old woman whose overbearing Kenyan husband saying that his child will be born on his soil may have greatly influenced her decision.

    Of course you have to prove that he was overbearing considering that HE was the one that foreign in Hawaii, and that she had the support of her FAMILY in Hawaii. Even an overbearing “husband” wouldn’t be able to force a pregnant woman to travel thousands of miles to a country in which she would not be protected, have adequate facilities if she gave birth.

    she was in her last trimester, She would have needed a doctor’s clearance in order to travel. Care to provide that clearance? The airlines she would have traveled on would have recorded that she provided such documentation. Contacted the airlines for that proof? Oh wait, can you even name the airlines that traveled to Kenya from Hawaii.. Please provide what airlines could have gotten her to Kenya, had a clearance from her doctor in order to fly.

    rEALITY stacks up against your speculation

  236. avatar
    SvenMagnussen March 8, 2010 at 1:54 pm #

    Here is what I would say if I were Obama and I were asked about where his SS# was issued. I would say “I don’t know and I don’t care”I don’t even remember applying for my social security card. It was I think when I was 14. I have no idea where my parents sent the application.
    So yes it might be a minor mystery- one that President Obama has no reason to spend a moment looking for an answer to.
    But go ahead and spend time researching it. Lots of time.

    When Obama is 14, his parents were living in Indonesia and he was attending high school in Hawai’i. The first three numbers of the SSN are reflective of the mailing address of the applicant, regardless of where the applicant sends the application.

    Not only are U.S. citizens capable of obtaining a SSN, but legal aliens allowed to work are capable of obtaining a SSN.

    Consequently, we have a minor living in Hawai’i, his parents living in Indonesia and his SSN card is mailed to Connecticut. It sounds a lot like an ARO managing the legal paperwork for a legal alien, doesn’t it?

  237. avatar
    Hawaiiborn March 8, 2010 at 1:54 pm #

    Truly incredible speculations….And still refusing to address the simple fact that there is no evidence of such a visit and that the AAFS did not have the funds to have students return to Kenya for the summer.Pathetic

    the problem is that HE WAS MARRIED. So would AAFS even provide support to Stanley in order to travel. DOUBT IT

    so that doesn’t even apply at this point.

    They were both poor.

  238. avatar
    Bob Weber March 8, 2010 at 1:58 pm #

    International air travel was terribly expensive in 1961. For the price of one round-trip coach ticket Hawaii-Kenya you could have bought a new Ford or Chevy, or a year’s tuition at a fancy school like Stanford. So I’m sure the Obamas would have had no problem squandering that amount of money on a summer jaunt to Kenya to meet the relatives, and take advantage of the superb health care system.

  239. avatar
    Mike March 8, 2010 at 1:59 pm #

    your untruthful

    My untruthful what?

  240. avatar
    Bob Weber March 8, 2010 at 2:18 pm #

    Har, Har! (snort!) That story was concocted by a birfer who labeled it as fiction, but birfers are so stupid, they’ll believe anything, even when it’s labeled as fiction! Birfers get punked by birfers!

  241. avatar
    BatGuano March 8, 2010 at 2:28 pm #

    .2. Your introduction of Yellow Fever Vaccinations is premature. At this point you have not yet established that such a vaccine was required. I haven’t been able to locate anything from 1961, but I did find that in 1956 the certificate of vaccination was only required if entering from infected areas.

    …… and kenya would be an infected area. so….. along these lines of logic……. baby obama and mom would have had to have gotten the vaccine before returning to hawaii.

    from wiki:

    “The 17D vaccine is contraindicated in infants, pregnant women, and anyone with a diminished immune capacity, including those taking immunosuppressant drugs.”

  242. avatar
    Bob Weber March 8, 2010 at 2:34 pm #

    “grandma decides that the baby has to be a natural born citizen ( plain ordinary citizen won’t do )”I don’t want to spoil your fantasy, but if Obama Jr. was born in Kenya he wouldn’t even be a citizen of the United States. Ann was only 18 at the time. She would have needed to be 19 (5 years after the age of 14) in order to pass citizenship. The motivation was citizenship, not natural-born status.

    Even if every birfer fantasy were true, baby Obama would have been an automatic permanent legal resident alien of the U.S., and automatically naturalized in childhood. Which means there would have been no reason not to register his birth at a consulate, and bring him in legally. Since there are no records of immigration or naturalization, this indicates that Obama was born in Hawaii, as his BC indicates.

  243. avatar
    nbC March 8, 2010 at 2:37 pm #

    Not only are U.S. citizens capable of obtaining a SSN, but legal aliens allowed to work are capable of obtaining a SSN.

    Consequently, we have a minor living in Hawai’i, his parents living in Indonesia and his SSN card is mailed to Connecticut. It sounds a lot like an ARO managing the legal paperwork for a legal alien, doesn’t it?

    Not really but your imagination runs amok quite regularly doesn’t it? It’s quite simple for Obama or his grand parents to fill out a regular form. The question really is: why was it mailed to Connecticut? The answer may be found in where Obama spent his summers?

    As I said a minor mystery. Since there is no evidence that Obama returned as a refugee, and given the ridiculous nature of the suggestion, it seems safe to once again reject Sven’s musings.

    Par for the course

    Truth be damned…

  244. avatar
    SFJeff March 8, 2010 at 2:41 pm #

    “It sounds a lot like an ARO managing the legal paperwork for a legal alien, doesn’t it?”

    No.

  245. avatar
    Questions March 8, 2010 at 2:48 pm #

    Proof that Obama Sr. was overbearing! How much do you want?

    Flying while pregnant? “Generally, women who are having a healthy, normal pregnancy are free to come and go as they please. However, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) recommends women don’t fly after their 36th week of pregnancy.”
    http://www.pregnancy-info.net/wellbeing_flying.html

    There is no record of Obama’s mother being in Hawaii during any portion of the summer of 1961. You want me to find a doctor who released her from some made-up restriction, but you can’t even provide a doctor who examined her at all.

    Next time you want to claim a travel restriction was in place try to support it.

  246. avatar
    nbC March 8, 2010 at 2:55 pm #

    There is no record of Obama’s mother being in Hawaii during any portion of the summer of 1961.

    Fascinating. Absence of evidence is used as evidence that she thus must have been in Kenya even though the supporting organizations lacked funding to sponsor summer visits home for its students.

    You hold others to task for not having any evidence yet you want us to accept your assertions of possibilities…

    There is a word for that…

  247. avatar
    nbC March 8, 2010 at 2:56 pm #

    Next time you want to claim a travel restriction was in place try to support it.

    Now that’s irony coming from you…

    Pot kettle…

  248. avatar
    Questions March 8, 2010 at 2:59 pm #

    “…… and kenya would be an infected area. so….. along these lines of logic……. baby obama and mom would have had to have gotten the vaccine before returning to hawaii.”

    Demonstrate that Kenya (specifically Mombasa) was an “infected area” in 1961.

  249. avatar
    Scientist March 8, 2010 at 3:07 pm #

    There is no record of Obama’s mother being in Hawaii during any portion of the summer of 1961

    I was with her in Hawaii in late July/early Aug 1961, right up until she went into the hospital to have Barack. Sorry, we didn’t keep records, but when one is dating a pregnant married lady, one tends to keep that hush-hush. That doesn’t change the fact that she WAS there. It is a simple fact-why do you dispute it???

  250. avatar
    BatGuano March 8, 2010 at 3:29 pm #

    “…… and kenya would be an infected area. so….. along these lines of logic……. baby obama and mom would have had to have gotten the vaccine before returning to hawaii.”Demonstrate that Kenya (specifically Mombasa) was an “infected area” in 1961.

    i can’t. Mombasa wasn’t a part of Kenya in ’61.

  251. avatar
    Kathryn N March 8, 2010 at 3:49 pm #

    Exactly how is President Obama supposed to unseal imagainary court records?

  252. avatar
    SFJeff March 8, 2010 at 3:52 pm #

    “Proof that Obama Sr. was overbearing! How much do you want?”

    Any? Just provide proof that either of them travelled to Kenya that summer. Don’t even need to prove that Obama Sr. was overbearing then.

  253. avatar
    SFJeff March 8, 2010 at 4:04 pm #

    A quick review and it appears that:
    a) yellow fever was not a problem in Kenya in 1961- whether innocluations were required or not I don’t know
    b) Mombasa was part of Kenya in 1961
    c) And none of this changes that the theory of Obama’s birth in Kenya is just hopeful wishes unsubstantiated by anything but rumors and speculation that no reasonable person takes seriously.

  254. avatar
    Rickey March 8, 2010 at 4:08 pm #

    Demonstrate that Kenya (specifically Mombasa) was an “infected area” in 1961.

    Kenya has always had a problem with yellow fever:

    Because of the risk of malaria and yellow fever, pregnant women should not in general travel to Kenya. Yellow fever vaccine is not approved for use during pregnancy, because it contains live virus. Malaria may cause life-threatening illness in both the mother and the unborn child. None of the currently available prophylactic medications is 100% effective. Mefloquine (Lariam) is the drug of choice for malaria prophylaxis during pregnancy, but should not be given if possible in the first trimester. If travel to areas with malaria and yellow fever is unavoidable, insect protection measures must be strictly followed at all times. The recommendations for DEET-containing insect repellents are the same for pregnant women as for other adults.

    Other common diseases in Kenya are cholera, typhoid fever, hepatitis A, hepatitis B, and even polio. An ideal place of choice to give birth, wouldn’t you say?

    http://www.mdtravelhealth.com/destinations/africa/kenya.php

  255. avatar
    Kathryn N March 8, 2010 at 4:13 pm #

    Anyone can speculate anything about any person or any event since the beginning of time. But it doesn’t affect reality at all.
    President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961. He is a natural born citizen and our legally elected president, period.

  256. avatar
    BatGuano March 8, 2010 at 4:16 pm #

    Mombasa was part of Kenya in 1961. Mombasa was part of Kenya from the beginning of the century.Here’s a couple of sources for you.http://books.google.com/books?id=x70UAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA678&dq=mombasa+%2Bprotectorate+of+Kenya&lr=&as_brr=1&ei=z1-VS_7vFJa-MpHvmI8E&cd=4#v=onepage&q=mombasa%20%2Bprotectorate%20of%20Kenya&f=falsehttp://books.google.com/books?id=TR8NAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA183&dq=mombasa+%2Bprotectorate+of+Kenya&lr=&as_brr=1&ei=_mGVS-_BGKHMMvTJmYIC&cd=6#v=onepage&q=mombasa%20%2Bprotectorate%20of%20Kenya&f=false

    “Mombasa became the capital of the coastal Protectorate of Kenya in 1920. In 1963 it became part newly independent Kenya”

  257. avatar
    Black Lion March 8, 2010 at 4:28 pm #

    I wonder what chapter this is in the infamous fictional “Young Barry Chronicles”…We are up to imaginary adoptions, fictious court proceedings, and mysterous records that somehow contradict the unambiguous statement that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii. Amazing. As a work of fiction slightly interesting, but as fact not even close. Because in a year and a half Sven has always neglected to provide proof regarding his so called theories…

  258. avatar
    Greg March 8, 2010 at 4:35 pm #

    No evidence stanley ann was in HI in 1961?

    1. Colb
    2. Alvin onaka’s signature.
    3. State seal
    4. Statements by DOH

    Maybe you don’t understand the meaning of the word evidence?

  259. avatar
    Greg March 8, 2010 at 4:51 pm #

    Hey, slamdunk, since ACOG didn’t issue their first opinion on travel for pregnant women until 2001, 40 years after Obama’s birth, I doubt it would have been very influential in 1961.

  260. avatar
    Benji Franklin March 8, 2010 at 6:35 pm #

    Gee Willikers, Doc!

    Would you consider “gray-listing” some of these posters who have shown such disregard for intellectual integrity in constantly making and restating specious charges and bizarre theories asking the universe to accommodate a statistically impossible series of unlikely speculative events in lieu of embracing the reality that a competent black male has earned title to the highest office on Earth? Perhaps their future posts could sport a fractional credibility quotient by their name, or, to add society-protecting context, the phrase, “I’m an idiot!” could be inserted after each word they write?

    They take advantage of our civility to repost the same disingenuous drivel over and over again – I worry that a bright child just learning to read may come to this site and conclude that in the arena of important ideas, well-educated and well-informed people will respect you endlessly if your words have no serious collective meaning.

    There is a difference between “intellectual tolerance” and “suffering fools gladly”!

    Benji Franklin

  261. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 8, 2010 at 6:50 pm #

    If you vote the thumbs down, they get colored. Beyond that, just ignore them. I’ve been thinking about writing something about this.

  262. avatar
    misha March 8, 2010 at 7:11 pm #

    “but when one is dating a pregnant married lady, one tends to keep that hush-hush”

    Shush. I’m keeping my end of the bargain.

  263. avatar
    Saint James March 8, 2010 at 11:43 pm #

    Port Reitz Airport became an international airport in 1979! It did not serve the public before 1979.

  264. avatar
    G March 9, 2010 at 1:20 am #

    Question Says:

    There is no record of Obama’s mother being in Hawaii during any portion of the summer of 1961. You want me to find a doctor who released her from some made-up restriction, but you can’t even provide a doctor who examined her at all.

    Next time you want to claim a travel restriction was in place try to support it.

    There is NO record of Obama’s mother flying or being in Kenya during any portion of the summer of 1961.

    Next time you want to claim a travel occurred, try to support it.

    Check-and-mate, thank you very much!

  265. avatar
    G March 9, 2010 at 1:24 am #

    Well said, Benji Franklin!

  266. avatar
    Hawaiiborn March 9, 2010 at 2:17 am #

    There is no record of Obama’s mother being in Hawaii during any portion of the summer of 1961. You want me to find a doctor who released her from some made-up restriction, but you can’t even provide a doctor who examined her at all.

    Oh, really now? I lived in Hawaii all my life, I couldn’t provide proof of the any specific month or period that I lived there when I was a minor; especially if I wasn’t enrolled in school/taking summer classes

    What you are asking for is negative evidence/absence of evidence is evidence of absence. Which doesn’t work in this situation.

    Prove that he was born in Kenya. You birthers have failed 64 times to do so.

  267. avatar
    J. Edward Tremlett March 11, 2010 at 1:49 pm #

    To be fair, I think what Cthulhu is trying to intimate – in his own, unique idiom – is that Obama’s mean political machine reached its long, heavy elbow from Chi-town all the way over to Honolulu, and leaned on the right people to make them comply.

    Because you know those windy city gangsters got pull all over the world, right?

  268. avatar
    misha March 11, 2010 at 4:00 pm #

    “Because you know those windy city gangsters got pull all over the world, right?”

    Youse better not mess wid my brudda. He wants us to take a ride togedder, y’know? Now gets in da car, or I’ll use da bat.

    And dis comes from da top, ya get my drift?

  269. avatar
    Mike March 11, 2010 at 4:46 pm #

    To be fair, I think what Cthulhu is trying to intimate [tl;dr]

    Freudian slip? Chufho is the one you want 😉

  270. avatar
    J. Edward Tremlett March 11, 2010 at 5:58 pm #

    WIN X eleventy thousand

  271. avatar
    Miss M March 11, 2010 at 8:41 pm #

    @Questtions and all other Birther cult followers.
    “Either way, your statement is not supported by any evidence. At best it falls in the “it is possible” category.”
    POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK! Do you not catch yourself? None of the birther theories are supported by any evidence! They are based on supposition and fantasy. Can any birther prove that Obama Sr. was not in Hawaii when Obama Jr. was born? We assume that Obama Sr. was in Hawaii at the time because no other evidence or claims say that he was away at that time.
    You need to crawl back into your hole and take your case of Mountain Dew with you.

  272. avatar
    Miss M March 11, 2010 at 9:05 pm #

    Hey Scientist….I’m in love. I want to be you when I grown up. I love intrigue and covert ops action.

    We need to stop being patient with these a**holes. They don’t get it and never will. Not only that but they sit at their computers and get off of their bullheaded-ness.

  273. avatar
    Miss M March 11, 2010 at 9:17 pm #

    @Questions

    RE. TAR. DED.

  274. avatar
    Scientist March 11, 2010 at 9:30 pm #

    Hey Scientist….I’m in love.

    Miss M-Why do you think I went into covert ops? I learned from the James Bond movies that women can’t resist a secret agent. Maybe that’s why Obama joined too.

  275. avatar
    misha March 11, 2010 at 9:50 pm #

    “women can’t resist a secret agent”

    Well, it did not work for me.

  276. avatar
    J. Edward Tremlett March 12, 2010 at 12:08 am #

    I dunno about that. His syntax and arguments are falling under “ye liveliest awfulness.”

  277. avatar
    Mike March 12, 2010 at 2:55 am #

    I dunno about that. His syntax and arguments are falling under “ye liveliest awfulness.”

    And, of course, there’s the fact that his email address is thatisnotdeadwhichcaneternallie21@rlyeh.net.

  278. avatar
    Greatkim March 17, 2010 at 6:33 pm #

    it is a fact
    that neither Helton Maganga
    nor Heltan Maganga
    was Chief Administrator on Feb 19th 2009
    it is a fact
    that either Jennifer Othigo
    or Merry Jennifer Othigo
    or Jane Othigo
    was Chief administrator on Feb 19th 2009
    it is a fact
    that Lucas’ paper bears the stamp of Chief Administrator Helton Maganga
    It is a fact
    that Lucas’ paper bears a signature spelling Helton maganga
    It is a fact
    that Lucas’ paper bears a date stamp
    carrying the date of Feb 19th 2009
    It is a fact
    that Lucas Smith is a liar
    It is a fact
    that Lucas Smith is a document forger

  279. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 31, 2010 at 11:02 pm #

    Greatkimit is a fact
    that neither Helton Maganga
    nor Heltan Maganga
    was Chief Administrator on Feb 19th 2009

    I just want to say that you did a great piece of research on that, and thanks for dropping by.