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Rolling Stone magazine: The Arpaio/Zullo lunch

Check out this major article in Rolling Stone about Joe Arpaio. I knew a lot of this information, but not all. It has just a bit about the birthers, but quite a bit about Sheriff Joe’s method of operation.

Joining us for lunch is Mike Zullo, an investigator from Arpaio’s "cold-case posse," who has been tasked with "clearing the president" of any wrongdoing. Over tacos and enchiladas, Zullo tries to make the case that the official seal on Obama’s long-form birth certificate the White House issued last year is fishy. "We have run this through over 500 different tests, trying to get computer software to do this, to replicate it, and it cannot be done," he says. "There’s major problems. There’s major implications for this."

117 Responses to Rolling Stone magazine: The Arpaio/Zullo lunch

  1. avatar
    Lupin August 3, 2012 at 11:55 am #

    Quote:

    Like a lot of Joe Arpaio’s entourage, Mike Zullo is an Italian-American from the Northeast, a large-muscled and mustachioed man who carries a 9-millimeter strapped to his belt (Arizona allows concealed firearms). Arpaio was raised in an extended Italian community in Massachusetts after his mother died giving birth to him. One of Arpaio’s favorite stock lines is that his father came to the U.S. from Italy “legally.” After a 50-year career in law enforcement, Arpaio still surrounds himself with other Italian-Americans, including both his bodyguards. He calls them his “Italian mafia.”

    END QUOTE.

    Is that Mario lurking behind that cactus?

  2. avatar
    richCares August 3, 2012 at 12:43 pm #

    who has been tasked with “clearing the president”
    .
    that’s why they chose only Obama haters for their posse!

  3. avatar
    Potter, J. August 3, 2012 at 1:06 pm #

    Wait, now it’s 500 tests?

    Recalling his 7/17 assertion of 600, Was the interview conducted when the testing was exactly 83.33333333% complete?

    Gosh, it never occurred to me that car salesmen might base their statistics on random number generators.

    ( 😛 )

  4. avatar
    Potter, J. August 3, 2012 at 1:17 pm #

    Curious how Zullo is always around when the press shows up. Isn’t he investigating something?

  5. avatar
    Scientist August 3, 2012 at 1:25 pm #

    Isn’t the fact that computer software can’t replicate the seal a sign that it’s REAL?

  6. avatar
    Bernard August 3, 2012 at 1:37 pm #

    I agree with Scientist. Pursuant to a 2004 federal law, Hawaii (like all other states) issues its birth certificates on security paper deliberately designed to prevent any sort of falsification, including alterations and counterfeiting. The particular paper used in Hawaii used the pattern that is also the background of this website, called “green basket-weave”. It is very effective in discouraging falsification.

    Someone at the White House posted the image of this birth certificate on the internet, a very straightforward scan, but the security pattern makes Photoshop and other imaging software have fits. Any experiment using some other people’s Hawaiian birth certificates printed on the same kind of paper — the birth certificates belonging to very ordinary citizens whose credentials were undoubted — showed similar results; it’s the security paper causing the anomalous readings that Arpaio’s crew and other self-styled Sherlocks think is proof of some sort of forgery.

    Although Arpaio had spent money giving his buddies junkets to Hawaii (it’s a dirty job but somebody has to do it), he didn’t send anyone to Washington, DC, to examine the original paper certificate, check out its seal, etc. There’s a reason he didn’t do that.

  7. avatar
    bgansel9 is not going away August 3, 2012 at 1:59 pm #

    Lupin: One of Arpaio’s favorite stock lines is that his father came to the U.S. from Italy “legally.”

    I guess that means Mr. Arpaio called ahead with reservations and made it known he would be seeking citizenship BEFORE he got here? Hmmmm!

  8. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 3, 2012 at 2:00 pm #

    It is certainly the case that any valid attempt to recreate the White House PDF must start with a real Hawaiian long-form birth certificate, not a facsimile such as the Cold Case Posse used.

    Bernard: Someone at the White House posted the image of this birth certificate on the internet, a very straightforward scan, but the security pattern makes Photoshop and other imaging software have fits. Any experiment using some other people’s Hawaiian birth certificates printed on the same kind of paper — the birth certificates belonging to very ordinary citizens whose credentials were undoubted — showed similar results; it’s the security paper causing the anomalous readings that Arpaio’s crew and other self-styled Sherlocks think is proof of some sort of forgery.

  9. avatar
    bgansel9 is not going away August 3, 2012 at 2:01 pm #

    “Joining us for lunch is Mike Zullo, an investigator from Arpaio’s “cold-case posse,” who has been tasked with “clearing the president” of any wrongdoing.”

    That’s why he’s spending all of his time demeaning the president, huh?

  10. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 3, 2012 at 2:09 pm #

    I’d like to reproduce here a comment left on the Rolling Stone article that I think makes a good point:

    “does he know what the posse does ?
    I once saw a radio interview with him, where he honestly played
    the ignorant. What’s a pdf, a website, email, internet, a computer ?
    Don’t ask Arpaio.”

    Arpaio has no independent opinion of the Cold Case Posse argument because he’s not competent to follow it.

  11. avatar
    justlw August 3, 2012 at 2:19 pm #

    Arpaio still surrounds himself with other Italian-Americans, including both his bodyguards. He calls them his “Italian mafia.”

    It’s like the mafia — only Italian!

  12. avatar
    US Citizen August 3, 2012 at 2:21 pm #

    500 tests and probably none documented.
    Or likely counted either.

    “trying to get computer software to do this, to replicate it”

    Replicating it with a computer is difficult?
    So much for “obvious mistakes” and “amateurish fraud.”

    Yes, it’s difficult to make a computer-generated image look realistic like a real paper document… unless you SCAN a real paper document in the first place.
    Duh.
    Maybe they don’t have such great graphic experts?
    They probably couldn’t replicate ANY image.
    They’re not experts at anything.
    All they’ve done successfully is talk and vacation in Hawaii.
    Any of us here not able to talk or visit tropical lands on someone else’s dime?
    Hell, I bet that Zullo’s Photoshop is even a cracked copy.

  13. avatar
    Scientist August 3, 2012 at 2:29 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: It is certainly the case that any valid attempt to recreate the White House PDF must start with a real Hawaiian long-form birth certificate, not a facsimile such as the Cold Case Posse used.

    Indeed. If I read a paper where someone isolated a protein from rat liver and I decided to start with sheep brains instead, I would be laughed out of science if I claimed that he/she was a fraud based on my failure to reproduce his/her work.

  14. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 3, 2012 at 3:19 pm #

    @U S Citizen
    What makes you think zullo even has a copy of PhotoShop?

  15. avatar
    Tarrant August 3, 2012 at 3:25 pm #

    If the “forgery” done by the White House is so amateurish and simple and obvious that a kindergartener could have done it, as not only most birthers but the Cold Case Posse has itself claimed, what does it mean that after 500 tries, none of the members of the Cold Case Posse could manage to replicate it?

    Are they not even as competent as kindergarteners? Wait, that answer is obvious.

    (I do like how the CCP seems to freely contradict its own arguments, and birthers are so desperate for some sort of legitimacy to their beliefs that they don’t seem to care – at one point it’s a forgery because of layers, then it becomes one because of not enough. Sometimes it’s an amazingly well-done (but obvious) forgery, other times even a preschooler could have done a better job…)

  16. avatar
    Thrifty August 3, 2012 at 3:30 pm #

    Tarrant: If the “forgery” done by the White House is so amateurish and simple and obvious that a kindergartener could have done it, as not only most birthers but the Cold Case Posse has itself claimed, what does it mean that after 500 tries, none of the members of the Cold Case Posse could manage to replicate it?

    Are they not even as competent as kindergarteners? Wait, that answer is obvious.

    I suddenly have a new idea for a TV show. Are You a Better Forger than a Kindergartener?

  17. avatar
    foreigner August 3, 2012 at 3:30 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: It is certainly the case that any valid attempt to recreate the White House PDF must start with a real Hawaiian long-form birth certificate, not a facsimile such as the Cold Case Posse used.

    no.

  18. avatar
    Scientist August 3, 2012 at 3:39 pm #

    foreigner: no.

    Yes!!!

  19. avatar
    misha August 3, 2012 at 3:40 pm #

    Potter, J.: Gosh, it never occurred to me that car salesmen might base their statistics on random number generators.

    Remember, Randall Terry sold used cars, before starting Operation Rescue.

    “…Two years later, in June 1954, [CIA] Operation PBSUCCESS realised the coup d’état, and installed Colonel Carlos Castillo Armas as President of Guatemala…then he and the United States began to militarize Guatemala almost immediately, financing and reorganizing the police and military.”

    IIRC, while Armas was in Florida waiting for the CIA to take him back to Guatemala, he supported himself selling used cars. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemalan_Civil_War

    Seems to be a pattern…

  20. avatar
    G August 3, 2012 at 3:50 pm #

    YES! *duh*

    foreigner: no.

  21. avatar
    Bernard August 3, 2012 at 3:54 pm #

    I had meant to say “An experiment” – not “any experiment” – “with other people’s Hawaiian b/c s on the same sort of security paper produced similar Photoshop anomalies.” This experiment was, in fact, already done. It pretty much established that it was the security paper pattern that caused Photoshop and similar software to declare there were an enormous number of non-existent layers and so forth, even in documents of undoubted authenticity.

    I am now trying to ferret out the report of this experiment to post a link — not so easy a google as I had hoped — but, in the meantime, there’s this:

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/29/expert-says-obamas-birth-certificate-legit/

    I will keep looking.

  22. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 3, 2012 at 4:22 pm #

    Your argument might have carried more weight if you had put it in all caps.

    foreigner: no.

  23. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 3, 2012 at 4:29 pm #

    Vital records have been using security paper a lot longer than that. I can’t recall now whether the CCP got some basket weave paper for their experiments or not. However, the certificate text was something they laser printed.

    Bernard: I agree with Scientist. Pursuant to a 2004 federal law, Hawaii (like all other states) issues its birth certificates on security paper deliberately designed to prevent any sort of falsification, including alterations and counterfeiting. The particular paper used in Hawaii used the pattern that is also the background of this website, called “green basket-weave”. It is very effective in discouraging falsification.

  24. avatar
    foreigner August 3, 2012 at 4:36 pm #

    they can’t reproduce this special layering.
    They don’t have the exact software and hardware that was used,
    the settings,the parameters.

  25. avatar
    Zixi of Ix August 3, 2012 at 4:41 pm #

    “We have run this through over 500 different tests, trying to get computer software to do this, to replicate it, and it cannot be done,” he says. “There’s major problems. There’s major implications for this.”

    1. What does that even mean? You tried to get a computer to replicate an image of a physical piece of paper, but you can’t, so that makes the actual piece of paper suspect? That makes NO SENSE. The best software in the world can’t recreate an image from real life perfectly. None of that makes the original image fake.

    2. “…over 500 different tests” is a specific claim. “A bunch of tests” is a more general claim, but “over 500 different tests” implies that you actually performed, well, over 500 different tests”. That is a mighty big number of tests. List those “over 500 tests”. What were they? List even half of those different tests.

    3. Who did those “over 500 different tests”? What are the qualifications of the person or persons who did those tests? Produce their CVs and professional certifications, including the courts and trials they have testified in.

    This is evidence of one thing: the fact that Birtherism is borne from hatred and bigotry. No self-respecting run-of-the-mill conspiracy theorist would believe any of this. This takes a special kind of deluded denialism. You have to deeply need to believe Zullo & Arpaio’s outlandish garbage for this kind of made-up garbage to count as “evidence”.

  26. avatar
    Scientist August 3, 2012 at 4:46 pm #

    foreigner: they can’t reproduce this special layering.They don’t have the exact software and hardware that was used,the settings,the parameters.

    Then they should keep their mouths shut. If I wish to reproduce someone else’s experiment and am unable to obtain the proper equipment, supplies, etc, then I keep quiet. What I don’t do is yell fraud.

    The CCP is a dead issue anyway.. Nobody cares. Not even you-you are just pretending, I can tell,

  27. avatar
    justlw August 3, 2012 at 5:19 pm #

    I’m going through Papit’s “600 tests” document, and finding all sorts of interesting anomalies. It starts out OK; I was actually nodding along until page 10. The wheels started coming off around then, but it wasn’t the worst piece of birtheration I’d ever seen.

    But I just hit the “if I were Mark Zullo, I’d call a press conference right this very instant” moment, on page 23.

    He’s explaining how white halos just can’t happen, and he’s following his pattern of showing a bit of the White House PDF, then a test he did with Adaptive Compression, then one with MRC.

    White House: halo
    Adaptive: not really a halo, just marks over the basket weave.
    MRC: nothin’. Smooth as silk. Clearly, the White House doc can’t be MRC!

    …but, uh, wait. I mean, his MRC example is really smooth. In fact, it’s blank! No basket weave!

    That’s because the test he’s showing isn’t using safety paper. It’s using what appears to be an olive drab background.

    What a weasel.

    There’s a lot more, and I haven’t even gotten to what I think’s going to be the really telling part, where he analyzes the internal coding. But I just had to stop at this point and say:

    What a weasel.

  28. avatar
    Daniel August 3, 2012 at 6:05 pm #

    foreigner:
    they can’t reproduce this special layering.
    They don’t have the exact software and hardware that was used,
    the settings,the parameters.

    They also have no evidence.

    (hint: woulda/coulda/shoulda is not considered evidence in any meaningful sense of the word)

  29. avatar
    Keith August 3, 2012 at 6:13 pm #

    Potter, J.: Wait, now it’s 500 tests?

    Recalling his 7/17 assertion of 600…

    Not to put too fine a point on it but the article apparently says ‘over 500’.

    Last time I counted ‘600’ was ‘over 500’.

  30. avatar
    nbc August 3, 2012 at 6:18 pm #

    foreigner: Dr. Conspiracy: It is certainly the case that any valid attempt to recreate the White House PDF must start with a real Hawaiian long-form birth certificate, not a facsimile such as the Cold Case Posse used.

    no.

    Interesting response. I guess you do not really understand science now do you?

  31. avatar
    nbc August 3, 2012 at 6:19 pm #

    foreigner: they can’t reproduce this special layering.
    They don’t have the exact software and hardware that was used,
    the settings,the parameters.

    Well, that’s correct but even having the right settings and software would not be sufficient to make determinations as one is trying to recreate the layering and other artifacts of mixed raster compression.

    The first step is to get a similar certificate, the second step is to try to recreate the workflow used.

  32. avatar
    donna August 3, 2012 at 6:43 pm #

    Zixi of Ix :”This is evidence of one thing: the fact that Birtherism is borne from hatred and bigotry. No self-respecting run-of-the-mill conspiracy theorist would believe any of this. This takes a special kind of deluded denialism. You have to deeply need to believe Zullo & Arpaio’s outlandish garbage for this kind of made-up garbage to count as “evidence”.”

    birtherism is just an excuse for racism and bigotry – after all, they couldn’t come right out and say what they feel about a black guy in the white house – that’s left for romney’s “quiet rooms” –

    if it wasn’t his place of birth, then it was his one american parent, or layers/forgeries, or code #9, or affirmative action and scholarships for a foreigner, or there’s not even a plaque on Kapi’olani Medical Center recognizing his birth or, or, or

    it couldn’t possibility be that, although he came from a bi-racial, broken home, he should be applauded for reaching the top

  33. avatar
    jayHG August 3, 2012 at 6:52 pm #

    foreigner: no.

    yes.

  34. avatar
    Potter, J. August 3, 2012 at 7:03 pm #

    Keith: Not to put too fine a point on it but the article apparently says ‘over 500′.Last time I counted ’600′ was ‘over 500′.

    So, next week it will be 700?

    Heh.

    Papit’s “600 experiments” paper has been around many months. I assume it’s the source of Zullo’s 600 claim. I don’t know how long it takes an RS article to gestate ….

  35. avatar
    Potter, J. August 3, 2012 at 7:07 pm #

    justlw: MRC: nothin’. Smooth as silk. Clearly, the White House doc can’t be MRC!
    …but, uh, wait. I mean, his MRC example is really smooth. In fact, it’s blank! No basket weave!

    Oh, it’s worse than that. MRC comes in many, many flavors. It’s the name of a model not a specific implementation or algorithm.

    Have the birthers clued in yet that compression is a 1-way street?

    I’ve never understood that if all their ‘anomalies’ are telltale signs of fraud …. why would a forger produce that? To do their best imitation of a compressed PDF?

  36. avatar
    justlw August 3, 2012 at 7:20 pm #

    Potter, J.: Oh, it’s worse than that. MRC comes in many, many flavors. It’s the name of a model not a specific implementation or algorithm.

    Yes. And he’s, not to put too fine a point on it, making crap up about how it can be implemented.

    Papit, page 12: “”Recall that an optimized file has only 1 transparent text layer.”

    So we’re back to “too many layers” instead of the briefly fashionable “not enough layers.”

    Except…

    Xerox, creators of MRC: “The extended MRC model, then, allows for several planes while relying on foreground-mask.”

    But honestly, I think using safety paper for all your examples except for one is a much more telling point.

    Weasel. Weasel weasel weasel.

  37. avatar
    Northland10 August 3, 2012 at 8:11 pm #

    foreigner: They don’t have the exact software and hardware that was used,
    the settings,the parameters.

    Software? Mac OS X 10.6.7 using Quartz PDFContext.

    How about Corsi’s scan of New Girl’s BC? Well, they saved it MediaOne 2.10 on September 13, 2011, at 7:04.

  38. avatar
    Zixi of Ix August 3, 2012 at 8:17 pm #

    donna: birtherism is just an excuse for racism and bigotry – after all, they couldn’t come right out and say what they feel about a black guy in the white house – that’s left for romney’s “quiet rooms”

    And not-so quiet rooms. Romney has plenty of birthers front and center in his campaign. Donald Trump; Arizona Secretary of State, Ken Bennett, who is Romney’s state campaign co-chair; and others. As I’ve said before, I am a fiscal conservative. I’m no longer a Republican, and won’t vote for birthers or those who court them. Romney should be ashamed of himself.

    if it wasn’t his place of birth, then it was his one american parent, or layers/forgeries, or code #9, or affirmative action and scholarships for a foreigner, or there’s not even a plaque on Kapi’olani Medical Center recognizing his birth or, or, or

    Birthers will always claim it is something, anything other than what it is… racism.

    it couldn’t possibility be that, although he came from a bi-racial, broken home, he should be applauded for reaching the top

    You sort of touch on an aspect which bugs me more than most of the others combined. The claim that Obama couldn’t have succeeded on his own and had to have benefited from preferential treatment due to race or because of his super secret communist background (according to birthers) or something… anything… as long as they don’t have to admit that he’s a pretty smart guy and a hard worker.

    I don’t agree with his fiscal policies generally, but I admire anyone who pulls themselves up and succeeds. Obama is proof that you can work hard and get ahead in the United States . Makes me proud.

    That the birthers can’t see this is disgraceful.

  39. avatar
    Northland10 August 3, 2012 at 8:18 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: It is certainly the case that any valid attempt to recreate the White House PDF must start with a real Hawaiian long-form birth certificate, not a facsimile such as the Cold Case Posse used.

    I have never been able to understand the Birthers obsession with PDF issues. What idiot would forge a PDF and put that online. If you were going to forge a form, you would create it on the computer (or typewriter), print it on security paper and scan that. I assume Corsi and Zullo know that but also know their followers are so stupid or obsessed as to believe the White House would take the most illogical route to forgery.

    The Birthers ability to understand computery things might explain why they have such poor spelling on comments. I suspect their screens are covered in white-out.

  40. avatar
    justlw August 3, 2012 at 8:36 pm #

    Northland10: Software? Mac OS X 10.6.7 using Quartz PDFContext.

    This is one point Papit got right: there had to have been a step prior to the PDF being created by Preview/Quartz. The Quartz libraries do not implement any form of image segmentation.

    So here’s one possible workflow.

    1. Shortly after the April 27 presser concludes, a White House flunky sticks the LFBC in a copier/scanner that has built-in MRC functionality, such as a Xerox Document Centre.

    2. Flunky selects “scan to email”

    3. Same or different flunky sitting at a Mac receives the email from the copier/scanner, and clicks on its attachment, which then opens in the Mac “Preview” utility.

    4. Flunky selects “Save As” in Preview to save the file to the appropriate directory on the WH web server.

    5. (Flunky at this point may have chosen to apply a Quartz filter, or save as PDF instead of TIFF, or both)

    Steps 4 and 5 would — as Papit himself says — then create a PDF file that contains the MRC-compressed image, but would have as its metadata “created by Mac OS X 10.6.7 using Quartz PDFContext.” It would not involve anything even remotely sinister.

    Is this a likely workflow? I would say “yes.” Do you think it was one of Papit’s 600 tests? I would say “no.”

  41. avatar
    Bernard August 3, 2012 at 10:40 pm #

    Hawaii may have been using security paper before 2004, but a federal law in 2004 made it mandatory for all states for their birth certificates and certain other documents.

    So far the self-styled experts have gotten anomalous readings on Photoshop and similar software from the internet image of the Obama b/c …. so very anomalous, with so many purported layers, that they themselves cannot fabricate a paper that would get similar readings. This should be an indication that the security paper does its job, completely baffling Photoshop into generating completely absurd measurements.

    Among the ridiculous “results” these armchair investigators have gotten is the claim, actually set forth in one of Orly Taitz’s court cases, that a microscopic examination of the typewriting on the Obama b/c reveals that several different typewriters were used – supposedly different machines were used to type individual letters in single words on the b/c. This is so ridiculous that it ought to be sufficient to disprove itself but instead it’s being taken seriously; as if, for some strange reason, entire words were not typed on a single machine.

    In the meantime, of course, certain birthers have come forward with photographs of what are purported to be African b/cs for Obama — at least four DIFFERENT documents. None of these has been analyzed in the slightest way. In fact each of these documents is available only as a single photograph (not even a photocopy, but a photograph of the document on a table or in someone’s hand). Some of these documents indicate a serious ignorance of Kenyan history or geography. None of these has been verified by Kenyan authorities.

  42. avatar
    nbc August 3, 2012 at 11:08 pm #

    justlw: This is one point Papit got right: there had to have been a step prior to the PDF being created by Preview/Quartz. The Quartz libraries do not implement any form of image segmentation.

    Yes, my conclusion as well. Given the separation of layers, one may also pursue OCR where the embedded text layer was removed as part of the optimization procedure.

  43. avatar
    foreigner August 3, 2012 at 11:47 pm #

    what’s more telling than their 2*600 attempts is, that no antibirther
    either produced and uploaded a pdf similar to the WH-one, that shows
    the artifacts. I’d expected some competition going on : who produces
    the best .pdf , what’s the best attempt so far – I haven’t seen it.
    Except one low-resolution picture by Polland, but it had a different
    goal, how he had produced his own a forgery

  44. avatar
    Entrepreneur August 3, 2012 at 11:57 pm #

    We’re smarter than that?

    foreigner:
    what’s more telling than their 2*600 attempts is, that no antibirther
    either produced and uploaded a pdf similar to the WH-one, that shows
    the artifacts. I’d expected some competition going on : who produces
    the best .pdf , what’s the best attempt so far – I haven’t seen it.
    Except one low-resolution picture by Polland, but it had a different
    goal, how he had produced his own a forgery

  45. avatar
    Arthur August 4, 2012 at 12:02 am #

    Arpaio and Zullo’s Mediterranean roots remind me of a conspiracy that I heard about some time ago: the Italians killed Christ and blamed it on the Jews. Wonder if ol’ Joe will get a cold case posse on that one?

  46. avatar
    donna August 4, 2012 at 12:15 am #

    Zixi of Ix: I don’t agree with his fiscal policies generally, but I admire anyone who pulls themselves up and succeeds. Obama is proof that you can work hard and get ahead in the United States . Makes me proud.

    That the birthers can’t see this is disgraceful.

    i agree – i have said many times that MANY with his background end up on the corner selling drugs or worse – yet HE ended up being a fine family man and the leader of the free world

    i have posted this before from his classmate CONSERVATIVE Bradford Berenson Harvard Law, class of ’91; associate White House counsel, 2001-’03 UNDER BUSH:

    “You don’t become president of the Harvard Law Review, no matter how political, or how liberal the place is, by virtue of affirmative action, or by virtue of not being at the very top of your class in terms of legal ability.”

    “Barack was at the VERY TOP OF HIS CLASS in terms of legal ability. ”

    “He had a FIRST-CLASS LEGAL MIND and, in my view, was selected to be president of the Review ENTIRELY ON HIS MERITS.”

    AND one of karl rove’s deputies helped obama get elected to law review

  47. avatar
    JPotter August 4, 2012 at 12:49 am #

    foreigner: I’d expected some competition going on : who produces
    the best .pdf , what’s the best attempt so far – I haven’t seen it.

    LOL! You’ve bought into the key birfer conceit, that this is a contest between two equal sides.

    In short …. nope.

    To be less flippant, compression is a one-way street. To recreate the result exactly, you’d have to have the document and identical hardware/software. TO make a reasonable facsimile, you’d have to recreate the document, or use an analog (a similar document, with stamps, embossing, security pattern, characters from multiple processes). Neither of which the birfers would accept. It literally isn’t worth the effort.

    Not that they would accept anything.

  48. avatar
    foreigner August 4, 2012 at 1:31 am #

    I’m not asking to uncompress the pdf.
    I’m asking for the best example of existing hardware and software
    to simulate the process that the WH went through.
    So to create those things that the birthers complain about.
    You can manipulate the document that you start with,
    in a reasonable way, if that “improves” the output.
    Just demonstrate the effects.
    There should be lots of examples by now …

  49. avatar
    Paper August 4, 2012 at 1:34 am #

    Despite your seemingly unremitting desire to shift the burden of proof from where it belongs legally, ethically and pragmatically, your last wish is hereby granted. While these links are not exactly what you may want (a contest of PDFs), that is after all how genies operate when granting wishes, granting wishes in a way that demonstrates the inherent flaw of those wishes.

    The point is these links are about reproducing or demonstrating the truth about artifacts/concerns.

    In varying ways, here is Doc producing examples debunking artifact myths and common recurring “concerns.” In 2009, he even created his own mock-up of the then unreleased long form. There are a couple non-Doc links included, as well.

    This is how one demonstrates what can be demonstrated, which is that Birther concerns are silly dreck.

    Otherwise your ongoing quest to elevate Birther arguments to a level deserving respect continues to fail.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/04/pixelation-is-normal-cold-case-posse-lied

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/03/forensic-document-stuff-part-2typewriters/

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/03/forensic-document-stuff-part-1documents/

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/07/the-doc-got-layers/

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/07/the-cadwaladr-file/

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/06/startling-evidence-that-document-was-created-in-adobe-photoshop/

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/06/long-form-artifacts-vanish-at-higher-resolution/

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/06/txe/

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/265767/pdf-layers-obamas-birth-certificate-nathan-goulding

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/04/layers-and-layers-and-layers-oh-my/

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/08/the-long-form-reconstructed/

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/03/nails-in-coffins/

    For extra credit:

    http://www.amazon.com/Barack-Obamas-Birth-Certificate-Fraud/dp/0983759251/ref=as_li_tf_ssw?&linkCode=wss&tag=obamaconspthe-20

    foreigner:
    what’s more telling than their 2*600 attempts is, that no antibirther
    either produced and uploaded a pdf similar to the WH-one, that shows
    the artifacts. I’d expected some competition going on : who produces
    the best .pdf , what’s the best attempt so far – I haven’t seen it.
    Except one low-resolution picture by Polland, but it had a different
    goal, how he had produced his own a forgery

  50. avatar
    Paper August 4, 2012 at 1:40 am #

    Well, when you put it that way, then those links above really do grant your wish, as they are all about demonstrating the effects. Lots of examples. You should spend more time actually looking things up rather than wasting wishes on things that already exist.

    foreigner:
    I’m not asking to uncompress the pdf.
    I’m asking for the best example of existing hardware and software
    to simulate the process that the WH went through.
    So to create those things that the birthers complain about.
    You can manipulate the document that you start with,
    in a reasonable way, if that “improves” the output.
    Just demonstrate the effects.
    There should be lots of examples by now …

  51. avatar
    Paper August 4, 2012 at 1:45 am #

    Exactly.

    JPotter: LOL! You’ve bought into the key birfer conceit, that this is a contest between two equal sides.

  52. avatar
    nbc August 4, 2012 at 1:59 am #

    foreigner: There should be lots of examples by now …

    I have shown how in principle MRC can explain everything, the only problem is that we do not understand the workflow and there are probably countless variables that can play a role here.
    Furthermore, not having the security paper does not help.
    Remember that the CCP has to rule out algorithmic explanations and show that their explanation fits better. They have failed to explain why a forger would randomly distribute letters over the bitmap and background.

    Such incompetence.

  53. avatar
    nbc August 4, 2012 at 2:02 am #

    It’s sad that foreigner does not understand the scientific method or the burden of proof. And of course, he still have to explain the original copy which was shown and certified.
    It’s a long way to overcome prima facie evidence through such poor logic and reason. Remember that the CCP asserts that they cannot figure out how the document was created using a workflow, but they have an almost impossible task here. So, one can not use ignorance as evidence. Furthermore, they have no reasonable explanation that can even compete with the workflow explanation.

    No explanation of the white halo, the break up of the document into a background and bitmaps with the text, although some of the text remained on the bitmap.
    No forger would be so sloppy.

    Such incompetence. But then again, none (or very few) of these are really experts or even investigators. Real experts have already admitted that one cannot infer forgery.

  54. avatar
    Keith August 4, 2012 at 2:16 am #

    donna: if it wasn’t his place of birth, then it was his one american parent, or layers/forgeries, or code #9, or affirmative action and scholarships for a foreigner, or there’s not even a plaque on Kapi’olani Medical Center recognizing his birth or, or, or

    You left out “dual citizenship makes him ineligible”.

    Mitt Romney’s Mexican Roots; His Father Was Born In Mexico, Could Choose Dual Citizenship

  55. avatar
    brygenon August 4, 2012 at 2:27 am #

    foreigner: I’m asking for the best example of existing hardware and software to simulate the process that the WH went through.

    I don’t think you grasp the important bits of the process. It started with Obama writing a request letter to the Hawaii Department of Health and sending his attorney. It ends up with the Hawaii Department of Health confirming that what the White House posted is a copy of the President’s original birth certificate. They also confirmed that the COLB Obama released back in June 2008 is “legally sufficient evidence of birth in the State of Hawaii”.

    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html
    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/News_Release_Birth_Certificate_042711.pdf

  56. avatar
    G August 4, 2012 at 2:42 am #

    AGREED!!!

    brygenon: I don’t think you grasp the important bits of the process. It started with Obama writing a request letter to the Hawaii Department of Health and sending his attorney. It ends up with the Hawaii Department of Health confirming that what the White House posted is a copy of the President’s original birth certificate. They also confirmed that the COLB Obama released back in June 2008 is “legally sufficient evidence of birth in the State of Hawaii”. http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.htmlhttp://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/News_Release_Birth_Certificate_042711.pdf

  57. avatar
    JPotter August 4, 2012 at 3:13 am #

    When a Taste for Publicity Bites Back

    New York Times article about Arpaio’s obsession with the press. Ran 8/1. It only mentions birtherism in passing, but illuminates possible motivations brilliantly! Some highlights:

    On the stand last week, he had to confront past statements to the news media … “Sheriff, … which is the truth — what you say here in court, or what you say to audiences who want to hear you talk?”

    “What I say in court under oath, that’s the truth.”
    ___________

    He uses a Smith Corona typewriter to keep records of every interview he has given …
    ___________

    “You know what I average on TV a month? Here, local?” Sheriff Arpaio said defiantly, punching his desk for emphasis. “Two hundred appearances.”
    ___________

    … his résumé, which runs to five pages and lists under “awards and citations” …that he has been “featured and profiled thousands of times by worldwide news media.”
    ___________

    Beneath his hard shell, though, there have been occasional signs of insecurity. When he first took office in 1993, many people here recall, he used to go around asking strangers, “Do you know who I am?”

  58. avatar
    foreigner August 4, 2012 at 6:40 am #

    what’s so magic with the security paper ? radioactive ? fluorescent ?
    let’s take the high-resolution picture at obamafile, delete everything
    below a certain threshold, so to remove the 2008-COLB which shines through.
    Then overlay it with a high resolution electronic security paper file.

    Print that in high resolution to paper, Scan it, Convert it to pdf, with
    or without layers,optimized or not.
    Where is it

  59. avatar
    Scientist August 4, 2012 at 6:47 am #

    foreigner: Suppose the pdf was constructed on a computer, but the paper certificate was real and all the information correct. So what?

  60. avatar
    Paper August 4, 2012 at 8:57 am #

    Get to work.

    Your idea, your job.

    You let us know where it is once you have something to show.

    foreigner:
    what’s so magic with the security paper ? radioactive ? fluorescent ?
    let’s take the high-resolution picture at obamafile, delete everything
    below a certain threshold, so to remove the 2008-COLB which shines through.
    Then overlay it with a high resolution electronic security paper file.

    Print that in high resolution to paper, Scan it, Convert it to pdf, withor without layers,optimized or not.
    Where is it

  61. avatar
    JPotter August 4, 2012 at 10:40 am #

    foreigner: let’s take the high-resolution picture at obamafile, delete everything
    below a certain threshold, so to remove the 2008-COLB which shines through.
    Then overlay it with a high resolution electronic security paper file.

    Been there done that. It was fun.

    Why use an image from the “obamafile”? A birther site? and ‘2008 COLB shining through’ ….. still wallowing in birther memes? Not sure what images you’re referring to. Post a URL.

    I see you are new to the exciting world of forgery! You cannot accurately recreate a document by scanning and printing. Every generation of scanning and printing reinterprets an image (particularly the printing, screening/descreening is very destructive), and the available online images have already been through several generations.

    To be most accurate the document must be recreated in the manner the original was created, as closely as possible, as best can be inferred. For this project you’ll need some custom inkstamps, a ballpoint pen, a pencil, a mechanical typewriter with a worn ribbon, a laser printer, a color scanner/copier with network access or a USB port and support for scan to PDF/A, and, don’t forget, an embossing seal from HDOH or at least a darn good recreation. There are plenty of photographic references on line to refer to.

    A couple dozen sheets of appropriate security paper stock, and a ream of presentation-grade paper, and you’re ready to go.

    If you need help with the sequence of operation once you’ve rounded up all the materials, feel free to ask.

    Yes, you could make a reasonable facsimile through simpler means, but we’re not demonstrating for reasonable people are we?

    If it’s worth doing, it’s worth doing right!

  62. avatar
    Scientist August 4, 2012 at 10:48 am #

    If I went to Paris and took a picture of the Mona Lisa with a cell phone and posted it on line, it would undoubtedly look like crap. foreigner would conclude that Leonardo was a fraud and the Louvre was part of a giant conspiracy.

  63. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 4, 2012 at 11:00 am #

    foreigner: no.

    So…….if I scan a $20 bill and send you a PDF of it can you can tell me if it is counterfeit?

  64. avatar
    Majority Will August 4, 2012 at 11:23 am #

    That’s an excellent comparison.
    Obviously, many birther bigots are stuck on the stupidity of a PDF copy rather than the confirmed information by the legal and official issuing authority of the state of Hawaii.

    CarlOrcas: So…….if I scan a $20 bill and send you a PDF of it can you can tell me if it is counterfeit?

  65. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 4, 2012 at 11:55 am #

    Majority Will: Obviously, many birther bigots are stuck on the stupidity of a PDF copy rather than the confirmed information by the legal and official issuing authority of the state of Hawaii.

    There are a lot of stupid birther arguments but this one takes the prize.

  66. avatar
    justlw August 4, 2012 at 11:56 am #

    Scientist: If I went to Paris and took a picture of the Mona Lisa with a cell phone and posted it on line, it would undoubtedly

    be a forgery. She was a notorious Luddite, and never owned one. Friends would always say, “But Mona, how can we text you?” And she’d just smile.

  67. avatar
    Rickey August 4, 2012 at 12:40 pm #

    foreigner:
    what’s so magic with the security paper ? radioactive ? fluorescent ?
    let’s take the high-resolution picture at obamafile, delete everything
    below a certain threshold, so to remove the 2008-COLB which shines through.
    Then overlay it with a high resolution electronic security paper file.

    Print that in high resolution to paper, Scan it, Convert it to pdf, withor without layers,optimized or not.
    Where is it

    Toward what purpose? To try to convince a handful of birfoons, who have demonstrated time and again that no amount of proof will satisfy them?

  68. avatar
    Dave B. August 4, 2012 at 12:51 pm #

    I think part of the confusion here is that Arpaius et al. just aren’t very good with arabic numbers.

  69. avatar
    James M August 5, 2012 at 1:48 pm #

    JPotter: a ballpoint pen

    I’ve wondered about this. Anyone in 1961 who did a lot of desk writing would steer clear of the ballpoint pens that were beginning to emerge. “Skilcraft – US Government” pens were still a few years away, and this was a state office, not a federal bureau.

    I’d be more inclined to bet that a pen used in 1961 was a Parker 51 fountain pen.

  70. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 5, 2012 at 2:23 pm #

    James M: I’d be more inclined to bet that a pen used in 1961 was a Parker 51 fountain pen.

    It occurs to me that I have never owned or used a fountain pen and I was born in 1947. And the grade school desks I reall had a hole in the top where an ink bottle had once resided.

    According to Wikipedia – the repository of all knowledge – BIC’s first stick pen was introduced in 1952. Here is more than you ever cared to know about the history of ballpoint pens:

    http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/ballpen.htm

  71. avatar
    JPotter August 5, 2012 at 2:36 pm #

    James M: JPotter: a ballpoint pen

    I’ve wondered about this.

    My list was for the purposes of making a good forgery. Since this forgery would be made with the intention of digitization, and the hard copy not going anywhere, a good ballpoint would suffice.

    I was in no way listing what I thought would be required to make a perfect forgery (a ‘literal’ recreation) that would fool document experts. That would be a much, much bigger production.

    That said, ‘ballpoint pen’ is way to generic. A 10 disposable Bic won’t cut it! Need a quality pen, a Uniball or somesuch.

  72. avatar
    Bernard August 5, 2012 at 5:02 pm #

    Not to be pedantic, but ballpoint pens have been available in the US since 1945.

    One important feature of the birthers’ accusations about the Obama b/c (to be more precise, the internet image of the Obama b/c) is that Photoshop and similar software detects an enormous number of “layers”. Some people who are familiar with Photoshop tell me that the business about layers actually translates to degrees of darkness and saturation in printing — the assumption by Photoshop being that it’s examining a document printed with modern, computer-style, technology so that all its lettering ought to be equally crisp and dark; this clearly isn’t the case with an old document consisting of a pre-printed form and entries made with an old-fashioned manual typewriter. The point being that the talk about “layers” is misleading — if all the printing on the Obama b/c were equally dark and crisp THEN we’d have good reason to suspect fakery.

    Anyway, the birthers talk about a LOT of layers in the Obama b/c. But can any birthers work up by themselves a document with as many layers?? My suspicion is that the number of layers counted by Photoshop is so absurdly high that the very number should indicate that Photoshop’s measurements are not to be trusted.

  73. avatar
    Rickey August 5, 2012 at 6:22 pm #

    Bernard:
    Not to be pedantic, but ballpoint pens have been available in the US since 1945.

    I remember using PaperMate and Parker ballpoint pens when I was in elementary school. When I entered sixth grade in 1959 the teacher made us switch to fountain pens (the ones with ink cartridges) because she thought they would improve our penmanship (any improvement was temporary, as evidenced by my handwriting today). The following year it was back to ballpoint pens.

  74. avatar
    JPotter August 5, 2012 at 9:45 pm #

    Bernard: One important feature of the birthers’ accusations about the Obama b/c (to be more precise, the internet image of the Obama b/c) is that Photoshop and similar software detects an enormous number of “layers”.

    Bernard, your heart seems to be in the right place. Honestly, this is a very tortured understanding of digital imagery and related software. This isn’t the best place to go in deep. If you want to contact me by email, I’d be happy to try and answer your questions.

    There might be a worthwhile article in the making!

  75. avatar
    Keith August 5, 2012 at 11:04 pm #

    Rickey: I remember using PaperMate and Parker ballpoint pens

    I’m trying to remember which ones had ‘tintinnabulation’.

  76. avatar
    misha August 5, 2012 at 11:49 pm #

    Rickey: I remember using PaperMate and Parker ballpoint pens when I was in elementary school. When I entered sixth grade in 1959 the teacher made us switch to fountain pens

    Rabbi: “We are celebrating Benjamin’s Bar Mitzvah today. He would like to say a few words.”

    Benjamin: “Today I am a fountain pen.” [bada-bing]

  77. avatar
    Keith August 6, 2012 at 2:31 am #

    misha: Rabbi: “We are celebrating Benjamin’s Bar Mitzvah today. He would like to say a few words.”

    Benjamin: “Today I am a fountain pen.” [bada-bing]

    That whooshing sound you hear is that joke going over my head.

  78. avatar
    Scientist August 6, 2012 at 7:15 am #

    Keith: That whooshing sound you hear is that joke going over my head.

    Fountain pens were a traditional bar mitzvah gift back in the old days. misha’s jokes could use some updatiing, I suppose. How about, “Today I am an iPad”?

  79. avatar
    misha August 6, 2012 at 7:49 am #

    Scientist: How about, “Today I am an iPad”?

    “Today I am an iPod.”

    Teacher: “When I call your name, I want you to say the first thing that comes to mind.”

    “Suzy” – “I want a pony.”
    “Billy” – “I want a race car.”
    “Sammy Stern” – “I pledge a thousand dollars.”

  80. avatar
    The Magic M August 6, 2012 at 8:15 am #

    Bernard: if all the printing on the Obama b/c were equally dark and crisp THEN we’d have good reason to suspect fakery

    But that’s the whole point of birtherism – *everything* is proof of forgery because it cannot be that the document is legit.
    You even see the same birther “expert” in the same document claim both “these letters look different, therefore it’s forged” and “these letters look the same, therefore it’s forged”.

  81. avatar
    James M August 6, 2012 at 9:45 am #

    CarlOrcas: I remember using PaperMate and Parker ballpoint pens when I was in elementary school. When I entered sixth grade in 1959 the teacher made us switch to fountain pens (the ones with ink cartridges) because she thought they would improve our penmanship (any improvement was temporary, as evidenced by my handwriting today). The following year it was back to ballpoint pens.

    My point isn’t that ballpoint pens didn’t exist. It’s that people whose job involved a lot of writing with a pen in those days very likely used a fountain pen (and as likely as not, a Parker), which wasn’t considered old-fashioned at that time, but was massively increasing in popularity at the time.

    Aside from the specifics of writing instruments used, another question I would have; “was the BC the top layer of a carbon form?”

  82. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 6, 2012 at 3:39 pm #

    Or a Sheaffer. I have my dad’s from 1945.

    I was 11 years old in 1961 and using a fountain pen in school around that time. It was probably a Sheaffer too. I have a modern Parker model.

    It’s very likely based on the images of the long-form birth certificate that it was signed with a fountain pen, not a “sharpie” that some birthers imagine.

    James M: I’d be more inclined to bet that a pen used in 1961 was a Parker 51 fountain pen.

  83. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 6, 2012 at 3:44 pm #

    James M: Aside from the specifics of writing instruments used, another question I would have; “was the BC the top layer of a carbon form?”

    Good question. Let’s ask Doc….did they use multi-part carbon forms for original birth records back then….or ever?

  84. avatar
    misha August 6, 2012 at 4:05 pm #

    CarlOrcas: did they use multi-part carbon forms for original birth records back then….or ever?

    Come back to carbon paper…please? – http://www.hulu.com/watch/280005

  85. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 6, 2012 at 4:32 pm #

    misha: Come back to carbon paper…please? – http://www.hulu.com/watch/280005

    Cute piece. Reminds of years ago when I was in the news business and we used carbon paper for stories and scripts. Nasty stuff. Everyone was quite happy when we got our first NCR forms.

    Worse was the wire copy. To avoid paying for a second printer we would run rolled carbon paper (two, maybe three copies…I forget) and let me tell you how much it was seperating that!!

  86. avatar
    Paper August 6, 2012 at 8:57 pm #

    I triplicate that.

    misha: Come back to carbon paper…please?

  87. avatar
    JOHN WAYNE August 6, 2012 at 11:12 pm #

    Obama’s College Classmate: The Obama Scandal is at Columbia
    TheBlaze ^ | August 6, 2012 | Wayne Allyn Root

    Posted on Monday, August 06, 2012 6:46:19 PM by Jess Kitting

    Why are the college records, of a 51-year-old President of the United States, so important to keep secret? I think I know the answer.

    If anyone should have questions about Obama’s record at Columbia University, it’s me. We both graduated (according to Obama) Columbia University, Class of ’83. We were both (according to Obama) Pre-Law and Political Science majors. And I thought I knew most everyone at Columbia. I certainly thought I’d heard of all of my fellow Political Science majors. But not Obama (or as he was known then- Barry Soetoro). I never met him. Never saw him. Never even heard of him. And none of the classmates that I knew at Columbia has ever met him, saw him, or heard of him.

    But don’t take my word for it. The Wall Street Journal reported in 2008 that Fox News randomly called 400 of our Columbia classmates and never found one who had ever met Obama.

  88. avatar
    bob j August 7, 2012 at 9:25 am #

    JOHN WAYNE: Obama’s College Classmate: The Obama Scandal is at Columbia
    TheBlaze ^ | August 6, 2012 | Wayne Allyn Root
    Posted on Monday, August 06, 2012 6:46:19 PM by Jess Kitting

    Actually John Wayne, the more relevant passage from the article is this:

    “I am President Obama’s classmate at Columbia University, Class of ’83. I am also one of the most accurate Las Vegas oddsmakers and prognosticators. Accurate enough that I was awarded my own star on the Las Vegas Walk of Stars. And I smell something rotten in Denmark. Obama has a big skeleton in his closet. It’s his college records. Call it “gut instinct” but my gut is almost always right. Obama has a secret hidden at Columbia- and it’s a bad one that threatens to bring down his presidency. Gut instinct is how I’ve made my living for 29 years since graduating Columbia.”

    Sorry if this was an answer to an OT comment, but geez fake John Wayne; do better. That was a crap article. The author made far reaching assumptions to reach an impossible conclusion. He guessed.
    Personally, I think it would be great if the President’s Columbia records came out; if only for this reason:

    http://reason.com/archives/2008/09/05/wayne-allyn-roots-million-doll/2

    The guy doesn’t even know his own G.P.A.

  89. avatar
    James M August 7, 2012 at 9:43 am #

    JOHN WAYNE: If anyone should have questions about Obama’s record at Columbia University, it’s me. We both graduated (according to Obama) Columbia University, Class of ’83. We were both (according to Obama) Pre-Law and Political Science majors. And I thought I knew most everyone at Columbia.

    Please describe the steps I would take if I wanted to acquire your college records and confront you with them.

  90. avatar
    Scientist August 7, 2012 at 9:48 am #

    So Obama never went to class at Columbia, yet managed not only to graduate but do well enough to get into Harvard Law, where he excelled. Doesn’t that say he is flat out BRILLIANT?

    Of course, the author then speculates that Obama only got into Harvard Law because he claimed to be Indonesian. So, Harvard Law has a special admissions program for Indonesians with lousy grades? Apparently they are the destination of choice for mediocre Indonesians. Can anyone show me all the other Indonesian Harvard Law Grads with lousy undergraduate grades? Anyone? Bueller?

  91. avatar
    LW August 7, 2012 at 10:01 am #

    JOHN WAYNE: Obama’s College Classmate: The Obama Scandal is at Columbia
    TheBlaze ^ | August 6, 2012 | Wayne Allyn Root

    This article is, of course, a total crock. Root has been promoting this junk for years, and it’s already been thoroughly discredited long ago. See

    http://www.thefogbow.com/special-reports/people-remember-president-obama/friends-2/#Columbia

    At the very least, it’s clear that Obama was never known as “Barry Soetoro” during that time.

  92. avatar
    misha August 7, 2012 at 10:40 am #

    JOHN WAYNE: Why are the college records, of a 51-year-old President of the United States, so important to keep secret? I think I know the answer.

    Here’s something I want an answer for: Did Glenn Beck rape and murder a girl? All Glenn Beck has to do is release his criminal record abstract stamped “Subject has clear record to date,” and this can be over tonight.

    SHOW US YOUR RECORDS BECK!!!

  93. avatar
    Thomas Brown August 7, 2012 at 10:43 am #

    JOHN WAYNE:
    Posted on Monday, August 06, 2012 6:46:19 PM by Jess Kitting

    Obama.

    LIAR

    The quote you use (“The Wall Street Journal reported in 2008 that Fox News randomly called 400 of our Columbia classmates and never found one who had ever met Obama”) is only found on Right Wing Nut Job websites, and VERBATIM. Which means you just copied and pasted it here like the brain-dead sphincter you are.

    I searched Wall Street Journal for any article on Fox’s purported random calling and found NOTHING.

    Never happened. LIAR.

  94. avatar
    Thomas Brown August 7, 2012 at 10:51 am #

    JOHN WAYNE:

    If anyone should have questions about Obama’s record at Columbia University, it’s me. We both graduated (according to Obama) Columbia University, Class of ’83. We were both (according to Obama) Pre-Law and Political Science majors.

    LIAR. I searched Columbia’s alumni records and found no John Wayne. And if you were using another name, post it and we’ll find out. But as you are a proven LIAR I’m assuming you are LYING about even attending Columbia, just like you LIE about everything else.

  95. avatar
    misha August 7, 2012 at 10:55 am #

    I like watching the Denialists become more miserable with each day. Intrade has Obama at 57%; Rmoney at 39%.

    Intrade has an accuracy of 90%.

  96. avatar
    Thomas Brown August 7, 2012 at 10:56 am #

    This just in:

    “Mitt Romney…according to his high school report card…
    He scored a GPA of just 2.10, failed to make a single A and earned a C in French his second year at the prestigious Cranbrook School in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan.”

    So let’s see… a guy with a rotten 2.1 average in High School, vs. A straight-A student who graduated Cum Laude from Harvard Law?

    Hmmm….. tough call.

  97. avatar
    gorefan August 7, 2012 at 11:27 am #

    JOHN WAYNE: But don’t take my word for it.

    Root is just recycling an old story. And one of his own acquaintances refuted it at the time.

    http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2010/05/jim-davidson-i-met-obama-at-columbia-and-told-wayne-root-about-it/

    Beside Breitbart also showed Root to be crazy,

    “The image above–never before released–is from public records at Columbia University that prove that Obama did, in fact, graduate in 1983 from the Ivy League school. Contrary to some conspiracy theories, Obama was a student within the Faculty of Arts and Sciences–not the less selective, “nontraditional” Columbia University School of General Studies (which only merged with the Faculty of Arts and Sciences in 1990).”

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/18/The-Vetting-Exclusive-First-Obama-Columbia-Record-Released

  98. avatar
    Neighbor August 7, 2012 at 11:34 am #

    I live near Columbia. My neighbor knew Obama when he went to Columbia, and wishes she got together with him then. My hearsay cancels out your anti-hearsay. I guess we have to rely upon actual facts. Unfortunately for you, that means you are either not telling the truth, or you are not as aware of your surroundings as you may think.

    JOHN WAYNE:

    If anyone should have questions about Obama’s record at Columbia University, it’s me. We both graduated (according to Obama) Columbia University, Class of ’83. We were both (according to Obama) Pre-Law and Political Science majors. And I thought I knew most everyone at Columbia. I certainly thought I’d heard of all of my fellow Political Science majors. But not Obama (or as he was known then- Barry Soetoro). I never met him. Never saw him. Never even heard of him. And none of the classmates that I knew at Columbia has ever met him, saw him, or heard of him.

  99. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 7, 2012 at 12:23 pm #

    JOHN WAYNE: But don’t take my word for it.

    Actually, Duke, none of those words are yours, are they?

    It’s all looney stuff reposted on Free Republic, isn’t it?

    Do you have a skeptical bone in your body? If you did you would simply have Googled the subject or gone to the Columbia website and searched for Obama where you would have found lots of references to Obama going back nearly 30-years.

    Here’s one mentioning his election and Wayne Root who claims he never heard of him at Columbia:

    http://www.college.columbia.edu/news/barack-obama-83-becomes-first-college-alumnus-to-win-presidency

  100. avatar
    nbc August 7, 2012 at 12:29 pm #

    “John Wayne” has problems with facts. He actually believes that President Obama’s school records were sealed by Executive Order.

    Such an ignorant fool, being manipulated by lies and hatred. Shocking… But so expected…

    The poor guy eats up any and all lie, fails to properly research them and then repeats them, making himself look like a total fool.

    Why people allow themselves to be so easily manipulated is beyond me.

  101. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 7, 2012 at 12:36 pm #

    Thomas Brown: I searched Columbia’s alumni records and found no John Wayne.

    Actually the writer of the piece is Wayne Root…..a real person with an apparent memory problem.

    As far as the late, great Mr. Wayne is concerned I’m not sure I recall him writing anything of his own here. What he posted here is a repost from Free Republic of a piece from The Blaze.

  102. avatar
    G August 7, 2012 at 12:40 pm #

    Wayne Allen Root is a well-known nutjob. He’s not credible at all and anyone who would simply take him at his word is a fool.

    CarlOrcas: Actually the writer of the piece is Wayne Root…..a real person with an apparent memory problem.As far as the late, great Mr. Wayne is concerned I’m not sure I recall him writing anything of his own here. What he posted here is a repost from Free Republic of a piece from The Blaze.

  103. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 7, 2012 at 1:19 pm #

    G: Wayne Allen Root is a well-known nutjob. He’s not credible at all and anyone who would simply take him at his word is a fool

    Yes indeed. I am very familiar with Mr. Root’s rantings.

  104. avatar
    JoZeppy August 7, 2012 at 1:38 pm #

    Thomas Brown: LIARThe quote you use (“The Wall Street Journal reported in 2008 that Fox News randomly called 400 of our Columbia classmates and never found one who had ever met Obama”) is only found on Right Wing Nut Job websites, and VERBATIM. Which means you just copied and pasted it here like the brain-dead sphincter you are.I searched Wall Street Journal for any article on Fox’s purported random calling and found NOTHING. Never happened. LIAR.

    Actually, there is a WSJ editorial that mentions Fox calling 400 alum, not finding anyone who knew the President at the time:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122108881386721289.html

    Of course the editorial in no way implies that the President didn’t attend Columbia (in fact point out contacting his room mate while at Columbia), just that it is indictivie of the President’s self admitted hermitude while at Columbia, and probably rather unremarkable (nice aside is that they comment that the McCain campaign has also refused to release his Annapolis transcripts).

    But is it really surprising that out of an undergraduate class of 6,000 that 400 randomly called alums during the 2 years the President lived there (off campus, and in his Junior and Senior year…after most relationships are formed as an undergrad), you didn’t find a person who knew him at the time? There are people who knew him at the time, that do recall him being there (his roommate for one, the disgrunted PhD who posts here at times, although he wasn’t a Columbia student, and there is the article the President published while at Columbia). For anyone to claim that they knew of everyone in their department is just plain silly….you may know most by site, but if they have no interest in actually ever speaking to you, and aren’t particularly outgoing, why the heck should you know them even by name, or remember them 20 year later?

    Perhaps part of the problem, he is trying to remember some guy name Barry Soetoro, when there is no evidence that the President went by Soetoro beyond his time in Indonesia, and from what we know, the President even stopped using the name Barry by the time he was attending Columbia, and did go by Barack Obama…some proof would include the article he published in the school paper in March of 83.

    http://www.politico.com/static/PPM116_obamaessay.html

  105. avatar
    G August 7, 2012 at 1:49 pm #

    Then again, a number of articles have come forward from people who DID know the President from his time at Columbia.

    A case in point – his college roommate:

    http://www.college.columbia.edu/cct/jan_feb09/alumni_corner

    Even the college itself wrote about Obama being an Alumni of their school:

    http://www.college.columbia.edu/news/barack-obama-83-becomes-first-college-alumnus-to-win-presidency

    There are several other published recollections and photos from his former college classmates which can be found online, if someone only takes a few minutes to search.

    JoZeppy: Actually, there is a WSJ editorial that mentions Fox calling 400 alum, not finding anyone who knew the President at the time:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122108881386721289.html
    Of course the editorial in no way implies that the President didn’t attend Columbia (in fact point out contacting his room mate while at Columbia), just that it is indictivie of the President’s self admitted hermitude while at Columbia, and probably rather unremarkable (nice aside is that they comment that the McCain campaign has also refused to release his Annapolis transcripts).

  106. avatar
    Paper August 7, 2012 at 6:01 pm #

    I was just at a restaurant and asked to see their menu, but they told me the menu had been sealed by Executive Order from the President himself. I must say I was shocked, especially after all this time thinking how silly it is for birthers to talk about the President using an Executive Order to seal his personal records. But if he can seal a restaurant’s menu, what can’t he seal?! It was an Ethiopian restaurant so who knows what that means.

    I’m wondering if I can get my own college transcripts, or have those been sealed too? For that matter, did I actually go to college, or is that just an implanted memory by the NWO?

    nbc:
    “John Wayne” has problems with facts. He actually believes that President Obama’s school records were sealed by Executive Order.

    Such an ignorant fool, being manipulated by lies and hatred. Shocking… But so expected…

    The poor guy eats up any and all lie, fails to properly research them and then repeats them, making himself look like a total fool.

    Why people allow themselves to be so easily manipulated is beyond me.

  107. avatar
    LW August 7, 2012 at 6:30 pm #

    JoZeppy: ..there is no evidence that the President went by Soetoro beyond his time in Indonesia, and from what we know, the President even stopped using the name Barry by the time he was attending Columbia, and did go by Barack Obama…some proof would include the article he published in the school paper in March of 83.

    http://www.politico.com/static/PPM116_obamaessay.html

    Nice find! That should be added to the Fogbow compendium. (Unless I missed it and it’s already there…)

  108. avatar
    donna August 7, 2012 at 6:52 pm #

    Paper:

    seriously, are you over 18? if so, can your parents get access to your school records?

    TRY researching FERPA

    nbc: “Why people allow themselves to be so easily manipulated is beyond me.”

    i quantify that with “why SO MANY people…… ”

    don’t they have THE google on the internetS?

    can’t they research obama’s executive order and compare/contrast it with those of bush, reagan, clinton etc?

  109. avatar
    LW August 7, 2012 at 7:00 pm #

    Donna: you may want to check your irony meter for fresh batteries, then read Paper’s post again.

  110. avatar
    Paper August 7, 2012 at 7:01 pm #

    Donna, check your irony meter. I am a long time poster here and that was total sarcasm on my part. I know the rule is that anything no matter how sarcastic/ironic/tongue-in-cheek can be taken to be sincere opinion from a birther somewhere. I just thought that one might be so over the top to be completely obvious, without having to put in a smiley face. I apologize. Do you have irony meter insurance to cover the cost of replacement?

    donna:
    Paper:

    seriously, are you over 18? if so, can your parents get access to your school records?

    TRY researching FERPA

    nbc: “Why people allow themselves to be so easily manipulated is beyond me.”

    i quantify that with “why SO MANY people…… ”

    don’t they have THE google on the internetS?

    can’t they research obama’s executive order and compare/contrast it with those of bush, reagan, clinton etc?

  111. avatar
    Paper August 7, 2012 at 7:05 pm #

    I’m in a rare mood, no tolerance tonight for fools, especially of the fake sincere type. I believe there is an Irony Storm Warning for the rest of the evening.

    donna:
    Paper:

    seriously, are you…

  112. avatar
    donna August 7, 2012 at 7:38 pm #

    ohhhhhh i’m HYSTERICAL – i didn’t pick up on the Irony – but seriously, there are THOSE who post what you did ABSENT the irony – i am just used to responding the way i did to you – i am sick of asking “how much does it cost to keep YOUR records “hidden” since mine are “hidden” for free?”

    i’m a little fried – a family member just had a mountain bike accident in san diego and had to be airlifted to the hospital – fractured patella – i have already received videos of the accident/airlift – he had surgery and is OK but i’m drained – fortunately, a radiologist was walking by and got the GPS coordinates to give to the 911 dispatcher so they located him quickly

    so thanks – you gave me the BEST giggle in the past 48 hours

  113. avatar
    G August 7, 2012 at 8:07 pm #

    OMG! So sorry to hear about that family tragedy! Best wishes towards your family member’s recovery…

    donna: i’m a little fried – a family member just had a mountain bike accident in san diego and had to be airlifted to the hospital – fractured patella – i have already received videos of the accident/airlift – he had surgery and is OK but i’m drained – fortunately, a radiologist was walking by and got the GPS coordinates to give to the 911 dispatcher so they located him quickly

  114. avatar
    donna August 7, 2012 at 8:22 pm #

    G: thanks so much – that was verrrry sweet – lol he’s on morphine – me …. not so much – he’s verrry active – had a surfing trip planned for sept in mejico – guess that’s out – he was supposed to join all of us in tahoe for our annual family vaca but he’s still in the hospital and not allowed to fly – i’m still in awe of a radiologist walking by who just happened to have a GPS ap with long/lat coordinates – amazing and fortuitous – who knows how long it would have taken to get to him otherwise

  115. avatar
    Paper August 7, 2012 at 8:59 pm #

    Yes, best wishes…amazing and fortunate, indeed!

  116. avatar
    linda August 7, 2012 at 11:39 pm #

    Glad to hear it has worked out as well as can be expected…I can only hope a radiologist with GPS strolls past me if I am hurtin’. Glass of wine and a big deep breath…

    donna: i’m a little fried –

  117. avatar
    G August 8, 2012 at 12:30 am #

    Wow! Talk about good fortune and being in the right place at the right time… 🙂

    donna: i’m still in awe of a radiologist walking by who just happened to have a GPS ap with long/lat coordinates – amazing and fortuitous – who knows how long it would have taken to get to him otherwise