The following article is opinion. It is slim on facts and heavy on speculation. It is an attempt to connect the dots to make one possible picture of Orly Taitz.
Orly Taitz fancies herself the leader of the movement to unseat Obama. Her web site declares itself the: “World’s Leading Obama Eligibility Challenge Web Site.” But is Orly Taitz the leader of the birther movement, or is she its number one victim?
Whenever you see Orly Taitz, in court or on TV, she is talking about President Obama having 39 Social Security numbers and his having committed fraud because of it. Did Orly Taitz discover those numbers? No, they came from private investigators (Sankey and Daniels) who I presume sold this raw, unverified, information to her.
An unscrupulous disbarred lawyer and felon Charles Lincoln has found and ingratiated himself (some say to the extreme) with Orly. You may recall that Orly was asking for donations of furniture, transportation and living space for Lincoln. I assume she’s giving him money from web site donations, or her own bank account for expenses. If the Lucas Smith declaration is to be believed, Charles Lincoln may be quite the gigolo. Lucas Smith, con man and multiple felon himself has either obtained, or likely tried to obtain money from Taitz for his fake Kenyan birth certificate (he tried to sell it on eBay, so it makes sense he tried to sell it to her when eBay canceled his auctions). It looks to me that these two nefarious characters are living off Orly or have tried to collect money from her. Smith’s little declaration to the court may be payback for a failed blackmail scheme–who knows?
She is being fed crazy theories from her web site’s commenters and by email, just as are the other birthers. She is a victim of birther misinformation more than anyone, and it has consumed her time and probably her money as well, and led her to sanctions from the federal court, and likely disbarment.
How did she fall victim like this? There is no question it was based on prejudice. She said so herself in the October 5, 2009, hearing in Barnett v Obama:
… I was just horrified from the moment Mr. Obama started running, and the moment he opened his mouth, I knew where we are going because I lived it [in the Soviet Union], I felt it on my own skin, and it was just one nightmare.
Orly seems to have an obsessive personality, and this may add to her likelihood of being victimized. I do not know exactly the history of how Orly Taitz got involved with her original case, Lightfoot v. Bowen, but I think she volunteered. From then on, she was seen as a credulous person, and an easy mark.
So yes, Orly Taitz is batshirt crazy, but I am not ready to call her evil. I see her as a victim of unscrupulous characters, her repressive upbringing in the Soviet Union, the anti-Obama smear campaign from the 2008 election, her anti-Muslim prejudice, her own obsessive character, and the seductive nature of fame itself. Once she loses her license to practice law, the fame of the crusading lawyer dries up. She will go back to being a nobody. That could be a crushing blow. I see Orly Taitz, “queen bee of the birthers” as an essentially tragic figure in the making.
Originally she was co-counsel on Keyes v Bowen, when Wiley Drake asked Gary Kreep to bring her on board. (Something I suspect they both now regret.)
I suspect the feeling was that she would do some of the legal scutwork and get some courtroom experience. I doubt strongly they expected her to go off like she did.
Lightfoot v Bowen was a lot of Keyes v Bowen recycled, (which in of itself was mostly recycled from Berg’s Berg v Obama.). But that was her first independent case in the matter, and I suspect she wouldn’t have – or at least not as quickly – had it not been for being brought onto Keyes v Bowen.
In a sense, Gary Kreep has been a legal victim of Dr. Orly, not once but twice.
Note, this article is not in response to anything said on this blog by commenters. It came, actually, from some musing on things I read at PolitiJab.
As I wrote before, she is a refusenik. Sharansky and Lieberman also go in for crackpot politics. Most people do not know that Lieberman was a bouncer, before he was elected to Parliament. All three are Jewish nationalists. Just to show you how dangerous they are, it was a Kach member who shot Rabin – the first assassination in Israel’s history.
Jewish and Russian is a volatile combination. My grandfather was from Moscow, and I can tell you, he was emotive to the extreme.
When I listen to Orly, I think of my family from Russia. I’ve seen it before.
When I was 16, I had a date with a Protestant girl. When I came home, my mother pointed at me, and screamed to her father “He went out with a SHIKSA!!” Then my grandfather let me have it. But you also have to remember what they went through in Europe. Orly thinks like she did in the Soviet Union, where everything was fixed, and kangaroo courts ruled. Her parents lived through Stalin, and pogroms before that.
I’ve heard it all before.
One more note: that does not excuse her behavior, but it explains it.
A joke in Israel:
A refusenik from Romania, meets a man in Tel Aviv, and he proposes. She tells him she wants to talk to her rabbi first.
She goes to him and says, “When I told the authorities I wanted to emigrate to Israel, I was fired from my job. So I took to street walking, and shoplifted food and clothing. Finally, they had enough of me, and let me come her. Now a man wants to marry me.”
The rabbi says “Well, you’re here now, you met someone who wants to marry you, you’re starting over. Mazel tov.”
“There’s just one problem, rabbi.”
“Problem? How could there be a problem?”
“What should I tell my fiancé”?,she asked.
The rabbi said “Tell him everything, but don’t tell him you’re Romanian.”
Tragic figure?
Perhaps a figure to have some pity for, but she has clearly chosen her own path in all of this.
She manipulates her followers and they are sending her money, likely in droves.
I can’t feel sorry for her at all.
I believe she’s a target of militia groups, the Sovereign Citizens, and perhaps worst of all Charles Lincoln, III, and I’m sure there are others, but I don’t see her as a victim in the sense that she does not know what she’s doing and has been strung along. While that may have been true early on, I do not believe that is presently the case. I believe she knows what she is doing (excepting legal practice, which she knows nothing of) and enjoys the attention.
And this morning she is calling Kreep an “Obama plant” on her blog.
Where is Alan Keyes in all this? Isn’t the mess Orly has made ultimately his responsibility? Aren’t his supporters Orly’s supporters?
If this was a Marvel comic book, Orly at best would be the Ringmaster (of the Circus of Crime). She’s a league away from Doc Doom or Magneto.
I don’t have any sympathy for her. You reap what you sow. She sows hatred and anarchy and scams money from people. People who aren’t very smart and hate President Obama because he’s black, who think there might be some hope to get rid of the ‘usurper’ (which I have always believed was their ‘code’ for ni**er). I hope over the next two year the word ‘birther’ becomes inextricably tied to ‘crazy Orly Taitz’ and the white supremist groups. The more of a clown, charade, caricature she makes herself now, the less traction these morans will get in 2012.
The thing about the 39 different social security numbers…I think Orly is confused again. The Daniels affidavit that Orly filed in the Keyes litigation doesn’t claim Obama used multiple social security numbers. In fact, Daniels swears in this affidavit that she only located one social security number used by Obama. But her search does show that Obama lived at different addresses (many of them similar names, pretty obvious data entry glitches).
http://www.scribd.com/doc/21193983/DOC-86-2-Keyes-v-Obama-Affidavit-of-Susan-Daniels-Refiled
Dear Realist,
I think Orly’s fame attracted the previously unknown, articulate, dis-bared lawyer because he felt he too could become famous by injecting the kind of life into Orly’s inner circle that formerly just jazzed up his briefs.
When you are as legally challenged as Orly is, having Charles Lincoln the Third to “fall back on,” creates the only sense in which history could record that your attempt to unseat a President became seminal.
Benji Franklin
Orly’s fame attracted the disbarred Charles Lincoln because of a mutual need: she needed a minimally competent lawyer to write her pleadings and briefs, and he needed someone with a law degree to enable him to continue his mortgage fraud scheme.
Good point. At a quick glance at the addresses, 20 are some version of the East View Park address that the Obamas lived at before they moved to Greenwood, on the list 3 times. 2 have no address, 4 are PO boxes, one is a BBQ restaurant that Obama likes. That adds up to 30. 4 take up most of the rest.
absolutely ONE MORE EXAMPLE of Taitz and her failure to understand sources of valid info vs unreliable sources.
Years back.. a friend ran a search on my “info” as a test. The search came up with my name “linked” to a certain address, along with a number of other names. I did live at the address… the other names turned out to be the owners of the house, who were my LANDLORDS. My friend interpreted this at the time, as being someone I was “LIVING WITH”, WHICH WAS FALSE.
Taitz already has shown her incompetence, including the affidavit relating to Holder conspiring with Judge Land.
The only thing proven is that Taitz paid someone to access an online and unreliable data base of some kind, and that she has no concept between “evidence” and reality.
That’s an interesting idea.
In the past, I’ve wondered if she wasn’t quite right, based on her patterns of speech. But now I’m wondering if maybe that’s just the way she was taught to communicate — “he who shouts loudest and best has the floor” and all that.
So maybe she isn’t batshirt crazy, after all, and is just an incompetent figurehead for a number of people who are winding her up after feeding her a bill of goods.
Or maybe she is batshirt crazy AND being used, in addition to needing some speech coaching ; )
From Orly’s house of horrors…Her followers have become more and more delusional….
“Judge David Carter
Sunday, November 1, 2009 1:38 PM From: “David Bartoli”Add sender to Contacts To:
1 November 2009
It has been said that once a Marine always a Marine; the Marine Corp motto, “Semper Fi” meaning always faithful are indicative of a mindset of every Marine and every inactive Marine. Marines have traditionally upheld this credo until death. Marines have always upheld their oath to defend the United States . Every army in the world knows if the U.S. Marines are headed for them they are in for a fight with the greatest bravest soldier in the world and they will loose because surrender is not in a Marines vocabulary. Until a few days ago I believed this to be as true as the sun rising in the morning.
On 26 October 1942 a lone remaining Marine held his ground against a force of over 2,000 Japanese. His 33 brother Marines on that ridge had been killed or wounded and he was the “last man standing”. He didn’t turn tail and run, he held his ground and that night he stopped the advance of the Japanese Army on Guadalcanal . This one Marine who held his ground stopped the advance of the Japanese war machine towards Australia . It was on that ridge, that night, the Japanese ceased to advance and started to loose the war. That Marine was Platoon Sgt. Mitchell Paige. This recipient of the Congressional Medal of Honor died of old age in 2003.
On 29 October 2009 a lone inactive Marine entrusted with the fate of the United States and our Constitution turned and ran. This Marine betrayed his oath to the United States , his oath to the Constitution of the United States , his oath to the Marine Corp, his oath to his fellow Marines and his oath to God. This inactive Marine name is Judge David Carter. Before him was a Constitutional issue that will eventually determine the fate of our nation. Rather than hold his ground and address the Constitutional issue before him in his court he chickened out. I was not a matter of standing, it was not a matter of venue. It was simply he didn’t have the guts to rock Obama’s boat. Instead he broke his oath by not doing what was promised to the citizens of the United States of America . His cowardice has now set this country on a new course. The people of the United States now have a grave choice before them because this inactive Marine deserted his post, the United States of America .
Every American must now chose to capitulate to Obama’s unconstitutional communist government or fight another civil war. If Judge Carter had kept his word and had a trial there would be problems but the United States of America would survive and be a stronger nation. By allowing the unqualified illegal alien communist usurper to remain in the White House he has set in motion the extermination of the Constitution of the United States of America . Now it is up to the people to either accept their fate as subjects of a communist dictator or remove him by force of arms. Neither option is desirable and either of both options will cause thousands of times the anguish and suffering a decision in Judge Carter’s court would have caused.
I believe Judge David Carter will go down in history as a cowardly traitor with Quisling, Lord Chamberlain and others who through history have capitulated to a mentally unsound tyrannical leader. Judge David Carter has taken us from freedom and liberty to the communist servitude of a ruling elite with one cowardly stroke of his pen. Because Judge David Carter was the “last man standing” and he failed to hold his ground the peoples’ last and only option to keep their freedom and liberty is rebellion.
Dave”
I have mixed feelings regarding Orly and victimhood. Orly chose to get involved in these suits. Her hatred for Obama is illustrated the comment you quoted. The birfer theory was a vehicle for her to act upon her hate.
I truly believe that Orly has narcissistic personality disorder. She falls prey to people like Lincoln, Smith and Sinclair because they feed her narcissism, as do her minions. Part of narcissistic personality disorder is paranoia. Racism + paranoia + narcissism = Orly’s motivation. She is paranoid about Obama because she hates him so much.
I would argue that labeling Orly as a victim in some ways makes her less responsible for her unethical and illegal behavior. Just because one was abused as a child doesn’t mean they should be less responsible for the abuse they perpetrate.
According to one of Orly’s friends (not Smith, Sinclair or Lincoln, but someone I met on a birfer site that I believe when he says he is her friend and talks with her often) she is very aware that Lincoln is dangerous. She was willing to accept him because she knew that she couldn’t get Obama without someone’s help. She told her friend “I made a deal with the devil” because she had to in order to achieve her goal.
While I think that Orly is an easy mark, she is just as viscous and cruel as Lincoln, Smith and Sinclair. Labeling Orly as a victim takes away some of her responsibility for her actions. Do I think she is vulnerable? You bet I do. Do I think she is capable of defending herself against these men if she wanted to? Absolutely.
Orly knows the histories of Lincoln, Smith and Sinclair. She knows who she is playing with. But her narcissism is so extreme, that she believes she can take them rather than the other way around. She uses them just as much as they use her. It is like a community of thieves. You travel with them, but you don’t trust them.
I refuse to call Orly a victim. She uses just as much as she is used. Lincoln has never hid the fact that he is a self-described anarchist. He hasn’t hid his criminal actions. He is good at explaining all this away, but Orly is willing to take a lickin’ if it gets her what she wants. And Lincoln, Smith and Sinclair have given her exactly what she wants.
If Orly has lost anything, it is money and time. To our knowledge, she hasn’t lost property to Lincoln. She admits to paying him. But there is no evidence that shows Orly to be anything less than a woman who is willing to look the victim or the fool to get what she wants.
Orly isn’t intelligent, but she isn’t smart either. But she is tough enough to know when to allow herself to be used so that she gets what she wants. This is willful association for Orly. The loss is vastly outweighed by the gains.
Dr. C. I think someone is trying to impersonate you at http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2009/10/30/on-the-birthers-lawsuits-and-separation-of-powers/tab/comments/#comment-508005.
I mentioned that you and the Dr.C were not the same, but you might want to take a look. The post is about 3/4 of the page down, at 2:06 pm, Nov 1.
Thanks. I left this message:
Dr Taitz is willing to believe anything that fits within her particular worldview. It does not matter who says it – a convicted felon or an anonymous poster, it makes no difference.
She has this amazing ability to not question – or not care about – the credibility of people she surrounds herself with. Case in point, a poster at Orly’s tonight says that she is a lawyer in Colorado.
0.2 seconds on any particular search engine pops out a result saying a person by that name was ‘cited for professional misconduct’. And someone has posted that the Col Bar Assn has no listing for her. Orly’s response? ‘maybe she moved to CO from another state and licensed in another state’
I honestly feel sorry for her family. She makes me want to call my mother and thank her for never bringing felons home.
I just waded through that mess at wsj blog, Ick.
Elizabeth gets a blue ribbon.
My take.. I have personally dealt with persons who were completely sucked into their own perceptions, often based in complete detachment from reality. Most of whom were diagnosed with psychiatric issues. NOTHING gets through. The worst thing in the world for these types, were enablers.
And boy, does she EVER have enablers. Many of them are her groupies who see no wrong or illegal actions in what she does, because she supports THEIR illusions, and she lives on their misguided praise. Then comes someone like O’Reilly, who publicly confronts the nuttiness, and out comes the outrage. Same for the threats against news outlets that are reputable, and want nothing to do with her stunts.
At the same time.. I personally believe that there is someone who is behind the whole thing (and has been, since before she became sucked in). The whole hoax plays on psychological elements of fear, with those who cannot define fact from planted info. Someone has something to gain, big time, from keeping Obama out of office.
I see some where she is being played, but also where her own ambitions set her up for the scenario.
The REAL victims that I see, are those who are on the verge of illegal conduct, and who think they are “saving” the country. All of us have to suffer, if they are not reined in, and defy the authority of the courts and law.
and a classic example of emotion and hero worship…
where “law” is now based on “captivating style”…
CH
Submitted on 2009/10/31 at 2:27am
Against all odds, overwhelming odds, incredible odds, Orly got onto mainstream media despite their determination to ignore her. If you can do that, and continue to wear them down with your captivating style and persistence, you will shame them into proper behavior like a good Mother of Liberty, scolding her rascal commies into respecting the rights of their fellow citizens. You may end up having your own commentary show, Orly. Please, keep on Trucking.
I have seen some of CH’s posts over at tROSL and they are usually over the top. I am not surprised that that person is an Orly-bot…
The telling fact is that Orly actually believes that the lists of Social Security Numbers constitute evidence, when of course they aren’t evidence of anything. In order to prove fraud, she would have to find documents which Obama actually signed in which he claimed to have a Social Security Number that is not assigned to him.
I work with similar databases all the time. They are useful tools for investigators, but the data must be independently verified. Anyone with experience who looks at what Orly’s investigators came up with would immediately realize that they are seeing a classic example of “garbage in, garbage out.” I suspect that there has been a lot of malicious mischief at play here, with people using bogus addresses and bogus Social Security Numbers to file prank credit card applications, etc. under Obama’s name. Some data entry person puts that information into a database, and it starts showing up in places such as Choicepoint, Intellius, etc.
Judge Land and now judge Carter, smack down the crazies (case dismissed), poor little Birthers.
Not even “Fake News” Bill O’Reilly believes the crazies, how funny.
http://belowthebeltway.com/2009/10/29/bill-oreilly-slams-orly-taitz/
To all the birthers in La, La Land, it is on you to prove to all of us that your assertion is true (TOUGH WHEN YOU KEEP LOSING CASES), if there are people who were there and support your position then show us the video (everyone has a price), either put up or frankly shut-up. I heard Orly Taitz, is selling a tape (I think it’s called “Money, Lies and Video tape”). She is from Orange County, CA, now I know what the mean when they say “behind the Orange Curtain”, when they talk about Orange County, the captial of Conspiracy Theories. You know Obama has a passport, he travel abroad before he was a Senator, but I guess they were in on it.
In my opinion the Republican Party has been taken over the most extreme religious right (people who love to push their beliefs on others while trying to take away the rights of those they just hate) and that’s who they need to extract from their party if they real want to win. Good Luck, because as they said in WACO, “We Ain’t Coming Out”.
I heard that she now wants to investigate the “Republican 2009 Summer of Love” list: Assemblyman, Michael D. Duvall (CA), Senator John Ensign (NV), Senator Paul Stanley (TN), Governor Mark Stanford (SC), Board of Ed Chair, and Kristin Maguire AKA Bridget Keeney (SC).
I was looking at some of the theories online about the social security numbers and figured I would add my two cents. Some of the theorists (not sure about Orly in particular) are making much of the fact that Obama’s SSN was issued in Connecticut at a time when he was a teenager living in Hawaii.
I looked up the meaning of my own SSN and determined from the numbers that it was issued in New York when I was a child. But my family had never lived anywhere near New York. My parents applied for the number for me when we were living abroad. I am willing to bet that Obama’s mother applied for his SSN from Indonesia, and his application was processed in Connecticut, just as mine was processed in New York.
I’ve always wondered about the Connecticut SSN (which seems to be the one most cited). Laurie, your suggestion makes a huge amount of sense.
I am fascinated by Orly’s spin on her loss:
http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/?p=5636
Apparently back in July, she was asking for a default judgment against Obama on the ground that she had tried to serve him by dropping off a copy of the complaint at the White House and he hadn’t responded to the suit. There was a hearing and the US attorneys showed up. Judge Carter said she could complete service by serving the US attorneys. She didn’t want to do that because she wanted her default judgment. She also felt she shouldn’t serve the US attorneys because she is not suing Obama in his official capacity since she does not view him as having any legitimate official capacity. At some point, Judge Carter pointed out that if she served the US attorneys, the case could move forward and be heard on its merits. She then agreed to do so.
Somehow in Orly’s mind, she interpreted this as a promise to rule on Obama’s eligibility for office without dismissing it based on an issue like standing. Orly claims she waived a possible default judgment against Obama based on this promise, and now she has been betrayed. She seems to believe that the judge would have been required to default Obama if he hadn’t tricked into waiving the issue.
Of course, Orly is forgetting or ignoring the fact that her case was on the verge of being thrown out due to her own failure to file an adequate proof of service. I am pretty sure the Judge was helping her by giving her a clue about how she could get the case properly served. When she balked, he simply pointed out that she was taking a foolish course that would hold up her case.
The Judge wasn’t required to default Obama, as the crazies are now claiming. Even if Obama could be said to have been properly served when Orly tried to drop off the summons at the White House, judges can set aside defaults for “good cause.” I am pretty sure it is “good cause” when the evidence indicates the defendant lives in the White House and probably would be oblivious to random envelopes being dropped off with the White House guard. This isn’t like leaving a Complaint on someone’s front porch.
More importantly, Judge Carter never promised to rule on Obama’s eligibility. He simply pointed out that overcoming the service issue would allow the case to be heard on its “merits.” Standing is an issue of merit. It would be ludicrous to believe a judge would promise one side in advance to rule a particular way on standing, or any other issue, without having heard from the other side.
/Sorry. This may be obvious to everyone else but, after reading the Birther sites, I had to get this off my chast.
Preston: In my opinion the Republican Party has been taken over the most extreme religious right
The anti-abortion crowd are in there, I’m sure, but I don’t know that the “religious right” is any more engaged than the rest of the right-wing.
The Governor of South Carolina is “Sanford”.
Rickey: I suspect that there has been a lot of malicious mischief at play here
Particularly since Orly Taitz has published Obama’s Security Number for the world to see.
Hmmmm . . .
Orly is a mystery. Is she stupid and delusional, or a calculating liar? Or a combination thereof? I think it is all of the above.
I also question whether this will be the ruin or the making of her. On the one hand, she has destroyed her credibility with judges, lawyers and thinking people across the country. She may be on the fast-track to disbarment. She has already been sanctioned.
On the other hand, I wonder how much money she is making off this. How many followers does she have? And how much do they donate? Could she be raking in the cash? Could she make a profit on something like sanctions, which might motivate her supporters to give her more money? Will she write a book? Might she have enough followers to make all this pay?
I am inclined to think that she is more delusional than not, and likely will be the ruined by all this in the long run. That doesn’t necessarily make her blameless.
P.S. I am wondering if it is easier to see her as a victim because she is female? Would be less likely to see a man in her position as a gullible dupe?
P.P.S. I am a little shocked at the suggestion in some of these comments that she needed this Charles Lincoln fellow to write a competent legal pleading. Her pleadings appear to be the most incompetent pieces of legal writing and analysis I have ever seen a lawyer produce. I mean how much worse could it have been if she had written this stuff herself?
Not particularly relevant, but yesterday my daughter and I were enjoying some dim sum when a woman outside the shop starting yelling at someone- hard to tell exactly what it was about but it included ‘murderers of babies’. She went on for about 2 minutes before walking off. Of course when we looked outside there was no one there for her to have been yelling at.
Before the internet, these folks existed in isolation and screamed on the sidewalks and everybody hustled past them as fast as they could. But now they can link up with fellow delusional fanatics, and they just cheer each others delusions on, until they fall out because someone’s theory doesn’t match up with someone elses conspiracy doctrine.
The woman on the sidewalk was just to be pitied. The ones on the internet scare me.
Currently she has a letter posted that purports to have quotes from President Obama that are disparaging to our troops. A quick google search takes you to a report that this is completely fake regarding the quotes – that they were part of a satirical column. She absolutely refuses to do even the basic cursory check to make sure she isn’t slandering everyone under the sun who disagrees with her.
It should be noted that the process server tried, but did not succeed, in “dropping off a copy of the complaint” at the White House. The White House security turned her away, and she ended up taking “the pleading” (whatever it was — it isn’t identified in her declaration, and may or may not have included a summons) over to the Department of Justice, where it was left with an unidentified person on staff.
That’s a good hunch. The first three digits of a SSN tell you where the number was issued. That is usually the same state where individual was living when the SSN was issued, but not necessarily. I have a friend who has a SSN which was issued in Pennsylvania, but she has never lived there.
You left out the part about Orly asking for an interlocutory appeal if the Court ruled against a Default Judgment.
If the Court is to be believed, it had not predetermined whether standing would be an issue when the Court indicated it wanted to “get past procedural issues and get to the merits of the case.”
Why did the Court use this language if Standing was a problem? I would think the Court could have mentioned any problems with Standing during the hearing on the Motion for Default. Was the Court trying to let a little steam out of the movement on a case he knew was going to appeal? This case should have gone to appeal in mid-July. But, because of the Court’s assurances on “getting to the merits”, Orly served the Defendants under Rule 4(i) after the Court assured her a summons under 4 (e) would cause delay.
Laurie, you are completely correct. None of us need to have a law degree to know the core rules of any lawsuit. You have your story, the other side has their story. The Judge is REQUIRED to hear both sides, then make the judgement. In the alternate universe of Orly.. all she had to do was give her “claims” to the Judge, with no response from the “defendant”..and the judge SUPPOSEDLY PROMISED there would be a trial.
Not so fast, Blondie. Not how things work.
As for “standing”.. it takes a new tack, when someone wants to argue WHO HAS LEGAL RIGHTS to “expose” someone, for causing the sun to fall out of the sky? Which court? Which candidate, or military officer, who (since the sun is falling out of the sky) can refuse to follow orders from that fraud, who caused the sun to fall down?
NO one seems able to explain in any language..English, Russian, Yiddish..that the sun is right there in the sky, just like it has been for centuries. Not only did the sun NOT FALL.. it did not strike the Office of Vital statistics in Honolulu, and corrupt all their files.
Carter promised her nothing but the LAW, which is what she got. The Constitution says that if you think the sun fell down, take it up with Congress. He didn’t try to tell her that sane people know that the sun is right where it always was, and Congress has more important things to do than supoena Granny Sarah from Kenya, to argue about where Obama was really born.
What we have to worry about now are the militants, who stockpiled ammo because that fraud was out to take their guns away (not)..and who think every Judge in the US has committed treason.
I believe that by “procedural issues” Judge Carter referred to serving the complaint properly, and that “merits” referred to looking at the complaint itself.
When I was a kid (I’m 11 years older than Obama) you went down to the Social Security office and they handed you a pre-numbered Social Security Card and I expect they were all properly numbered for the state I was in.
Today, mom checks a box on the mothers’ worksheet at the hospital and the data file is transmitted by the State to the Social Security Administration computer in the sky and card is mailed to the parent. Who knows how those things are numbered?
Expelliarmus: it was left with an unidentified person on staff.
And we shall never know whether it was a mail clerk or a male clerk.
The problem as I showed on my blog is the difference between personal jurisdiction (was the defendant properly served) and subject matter jurisdiction. Carter was obvious referring to personal jurisdiction as subject matter jurisdiction may not be waived and lack thereof voids any lawsuit.
Either under 4(e) or 4(i), Orly’s server dropping off some files with an unnamed server at the DOJ hardly suffices as ‘service’. Why not use the mail I wonder? It works for others?
It’s obvious Fudge Carter had to get Orly to serve under Rule 4(i) because she would have gotten to discovery under Rule 4(e) and a default judgment.
in what universe?
Sven: Orly … would have gotten to discovery under Rule 4(e) and a default judgment.
This is a common misconception among Orlyites. If Orly had served Barack Obama as a private person, the service was equally defective. For a private person she would have had it it delivered to his hand or to his attorney of record. An unnamed male (mail?) clerk at the department of justice had no authority to accept service on behalf of Obama as a private individual no more than that clerk could have accepted service for you or me.
those pesky rules of procedure, again.
SOMEDAY … the brilliant light will come on, and folks will realize…
MY GOD, THE WOMAN IS TOTALLY INCOMPETENT.
If someone is not properly served, they kinda can’t default.
Until the other side gets their chance to reply, Judges can’t make decisions.
Do yourself a huge favor, and don’t let WND or Orly Taitz explain the law to you.
It just embarrasses you.
I can understand how non-litigators might have interpreted Judge Carter’s comments to mean that he was not going to dismiss the case based on standing. A reasonable colloquial understanding of the term “on the merits” could lead someone untrained in the law to believe that.
But it is an INSANE for an attorney to have thought that. Orly should have known that Judge Carter could not possibly have intended to promise a particular ruling on an issue that had not yet been briefed or argued. It should have been crystal clear that Judge Carter was making no such promise — because (a) the discussion took place in the context of dealing with service and default; (b) “merits” can refer to issues like standing; and (c) judges simply don’t promise to prejudge the case.
So Orly is either completely incompetent or deliberately misleading her followers at the judge’s expense.
You’re right. I was giving the non-lawyer birthers too little credit when I said I could see how they might be confused by the judge’s verbiage. Anyone who takes two seconds to think about this should be able to see the absurdity of what Orly is saying.
or, d… all of the above and then some.
2 seconds?? you are so generous. *smile*
Actually as I am thinking about this some more, I do not believe that Orly ever argued in her pleadings or at oral argument that she had waived her default argument in exchange for some understanding that the judge would not dismiss on standing grounds. (Unless I am forgetting something.)
If Orly herself really understood the judge that way, you would think she would have been reminding the judge of his supposed promise the whole time the standing issue was being argued.
“The REAL victims that I see, are those who are on the verge of illegal conduct, and who think they are ‘saving’ the country.
Sorry, but I don’t have sympathy for them or see them as victims. People have to take responsibility for their own actions and boorish behavior. Are they dupes? Yes. But most of them because they willfully and obstinately choose to be.
“All of us have to suffer, if they are not reined in, and defy the authority of the courts and law.”
On this, I agree.
I agree and think you’ve really hit on some crucial sad truths behind most of this birther movement.
“Or maybe she is batshirt crazy AND being used, in addition to needing some speech coaching”
YES.
Well said, LMK, well said! I agree completely with your analysis of Orly.
Oh…and I’m not sure if you made this statement intentionally or not but LOL…I think how it reads is correct:
“Orly isn’t intelligent, but she isn’t smart either.”
ROTFL!
“I see Orly Taitz, ‘queen bee of the birthers’ as an essentially tragic figure in the making.”
…in the making? Gee…I think that ship has sailed.
She’s been a bat shirt wearing train wreck for almost a year now. She became the poster child of crazy on the blogosphere a long time ago and has only succeeded in upping her status to “national joke” from the moment of her first real media interview (further solidified in every subsequent one).
Her litigation filings and court antics are already doomed to become immortalized in legal circles as extreme examples of what not to do, as they are barely a step above paranoid and delusional rambling filings by the criminally insane.
If anything, it is amongst that sorry group that her story will probably end – eventually disbarred and perhaps incarcerated or institutionalized.
Mark my words, we haven’t seen the “best” of Orly yet.
She is on a trip. She’s an addict now. She’s got to top herself to remain on her high.
You’ll see.
Berg brings this to the 3rd Circuit’s attention:
So, tell me, how did Fudge Carter not no Standing was a problem before he manipulated Orly out of her Motion for Default Judgment or Interlocutory Appeal.
Second,
That case Berg cites does not mean that the judge is supposed to figure out the standing issue on his own the day the complaint is filed. That case means that when standing is challenged, the judge is supposed to consider the facts of the case as they existed on the date the complaint was filed. The judge does not consider events that occurred after the complaint was filed in his analysis of whether there is standing.
I appreciate your bringing this cite to my attention because it explains why Judge Carter belabored the point about how Obama was already President when the case was filed. (Even if Orly had filed the complaint earlier in the day, however, the outcome might have been the same, but the judge would have had to analyze the issue of whether it would make any difference if Obama were not in office as President.)
It makes NO sense to think Judge Carter was manipulating Orly into dropping her motion for default judgment. As explained above, the motion had no basis since Obama was not yet served, and even if he were served, Carter had discretion to deny the motion for good cause. If Judge Carter wanted an easy out of this case, he could simply have dismissed it due to Orly’s failure to get it served within the required time period.
Oh I think she’s making plenty of money off all this, especially if it’s true that she is treating herself to $300 a day lunches. I don’t know many dentists that can afford that. I wonder if the IRS is on top of all those donations and if she is properly accounting for it. That would be an interesting thing to find out. Just how much money is she getting from all these donations and what is she doing with it all?
What are the regulations regarding those kinds of donations, does anyone know? Could she be in for some auditing here?
From Orly’s site….This shows the depths of her delusions…
Question about RICO and my answer
Posted on | November 1, 2009 | 16 Comments
Jonathan Submitted on 2009/11/01 at 4:08am
Dear All, I am still for the motion of charging obama for fraud under R.I.C.O. using 39 SS#’s and having 50 addresses in the USA. This to me stands out like the proverbial sore thumb!
Answer: My concern is, that for RICO we need conspiracy, we need to show, who else participated. To find connections with others, we need discovery. We asked Carter for discovery. Originally he allowed discovery to proceed even before scheduling conference, but then he made 180 turn, stayed discovery (stopped it) and ultimately dismissed the case with a decision that looks like it was written by Obama’s defense firm. People are saying that he was threatened and pressured. I don’t know what exactly was the pressure. What he was afraid of ? Judge Land is relatively young- late 40s, clearly wants a career promotion within Obama regime, but Judge Carter looks like he is in late 60s. I was hoping that in this age he would put the country ahead of his career, how many years does he have left to work? People are saying that he was threatened. If he was, he has much more protection then I do. I have no protection and get death threats and my car was already tampered with. His courtroom was swarming with secret service and security. If he were to go public about threats, if he were to identify ones who threatened him, we could start fighting back this mafia that took over the country. Yet he cowered under pressure. He used his order to promote Obama plant Gary Kreep and attack me, even though he knew that I was the one who brought this action and all the other actions and I was the only one who was really fighting, while Kreep joined this case the last moment and used it as a money making machine. He did something absolutely despicable for a judge. He included in his order mention of some letters he got from scum, who alleged that I suborned perjury. It never happened, there was no shred of evidence, I had no opportunity to read those letters, to respond, to deny such allegations. As a judge he knew that he had no right to include such slander. He simply allowed this mafia to play their usual game, their usual set up, to use him, a federal judge, as a tool, to assassinate my character. This is cowardness at best, selling out at worst. Even if Carter provides an opening in his final judgment, how do you go back and argue any case in front of a person like this, how do you address him “your honor”?
Orly
I mean you can’t be sorry for someone that has such ignorance of the law…RICO? Come on…
Another poster from Orly’s website…I think that we are dealing with seriously distrubed individuals…Orly is not a victim…She is a charlatan taking advantage of peoples’ hatred and racism for financial gain. That is who she is…
I mean look at the poster’s letter…This is why we need the public option so that people like this can get the mental help that they need….
Submitted on 2009/11/02 at 7:09pm
My letter to Judge Carter of his Obama eligibility case which he is avoiding. November 2, 2009
The Honorable David O. Carter
U. S. District Court
411 W. 4th Street
Santa Ana, CA 92701-4516
RE: Inappropriate Decisions on Obama’s
Eligibility
Dear Judge Carter,
It is with a heavy heart that I write this letter to you as you are known to be one of the most honorable Constitutional Judges in America. It is known that you are an Ex-Marine who fought valiantly for the United States and for your efforts and love for America received the Purple Heart. You have fought and shed blood for this country only to turn your back on it and avoid the question of Obama’s eligibility as he is Not a Natural Born Citizen as the Constitution which you fought for requires him to be. He is a Fraud and a Usurper.
He has thirty-eight or more social security cards, he has falsified his selective service records, he has sealed his college records from Occidental College which shows he came to the school on an Indonesian scholarship. He traveled to Pakistan on an Indonesian Passport as an adult and entered the United States as an Indonesian Student. There is no record of him ever applying for U. S. Citizenship.
He is purposely and methodically destroying the United States of America, the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave and you are turning your back on the issue, an issue that you are one of the few people in America that can actually do something about it. He has not produced a valid Birth Certificate as he was born in the Coast Provincial General Hospital in Kenya. He has not produced a lawful birth certificate, as it would conclusively prove that he is not a Natural born Citizen:
1. Most formidable is the fact that his Father was Kenyan and that precludes him from the Presidency regardless of any production of birth records and no matter where he was born.
2. His Mother was 118 days shy of being able to transfer citizenship to him and there is now proof that she was not physically in the United States or any territories there of in which to be able to transfer citizenship had she met the prerequisite of age, of which she was not of age to make a transfer of citizenship had she been in Hawaii and/or any territory recognized by the United States in order to transfer citizenship. Thus this is a mute point.
Judge Carter, if you do not rule on the meritorious facts of this case and allow the documented evidence to be presented to the court, then you are not doing the Constitutional duty that you have sworn to uphold.
As a result, you will be judged by a higher authority when you leave this earthly life, as God is the Ultimate judge and you will be recognized for letting the United States sink into a God less country by not doing everything within your sworn duty and power to bring forth the facts and evidence and let it be heard in the steps to the removal of Barack Hussein Obama from office.
Now look to the attorney who is bringing this case before your Court, as she does know what Communism is, as she has lived under the oppression of a Communist Nation and understands why she is fighting to bring a stop to it here in the United States. She is fighting for our freedom from tyranny the only way she can, as you did many years ago when you almost gave up your life for freedom. Now you are turning your back on America when the citizens need you the most.
I as well as thousands of Americans and service men and women are now under the impression that you let Obama’s lead attorney, Bauer who is a clerk in your office sway you in your thinking and/or leveraged you into making the decisions that you are attempting to impose on this case in your court at this time. There is no lawful reason in disallowing the Discovery that Dr. Taitz filed to not be heard as a matter of law within the structure of court rules of procedure.
By you circumventing due process, on a properly filed motion actually places you in contempt of the law. I am only reminding you of the essence of this matter in hopes that you will again reconsider the enormity of this case and the president rulings which are contained within your decisions. I know that I am speaking for all Americans and more specifically our service men and women who are being sent into battle for our great nation and taking orders from Obama who they know is a Usurper to the office and not lawfully their commander and chief.
I am urging you on behalf of all the American people to not be persuaded to skew the facts which have been presented to you to stand firm in accordance with the Constitution of the United States of America and allow this evidence to be heard before the Court and a true and just decision be made. If you do not do what is right in this case and rule according to the facts and the Constitution, then God help you and I pray that you will never have a good nights rest, because you know what you are doing is are last hope of seeing Justice for the American people, and you will be letting this country be taken over by Communism/Muslims and Obama is both.
You received the Purple Heart for valor, I feel safe in saying that I feel every service man and veteran is wondering how you could turn a blinds eye to our beloved United States of America.
Respectfully,
DAVID RACHEL
United States Navy Veteran
He forgot to scream at the kids to get off his lawn.
Lupin, now that was funny…I got the image of the guy from the animated movie “Up”…I especially like when he says the following…”Thus this is a mute point.” Epic fail. I also like how he rewrites US citizenship law by stating that President Obama’s mother could not convey her citizenship on him even though he was born in HI. You can’t make this stuff up…
Judge Land and now judge Carter, smack down the crazies (case dismissed), poor little Birthers.
Not even “Fake News” Bill O’Reilly believes the crazies, how funny.
http://belowthebeltway.com/2009/10/29/bill-oreilly-slams-orly-taitz/
To all the birthers in La, La Land, it is on you to prove to all of us that your assertion is true (TOUGH WHEN YOU KEEP LOSING CASES), if there are people who were there and support your position then show us the video (everyone has a price), either put up or frankly shut-up.
In my opinion the Republican Party has been taken over the most extreme religious right (people who love to push their beliefs on others while trying to take away the rights of those they just hate) and that is who they need to extract from their party if they real want to win. Good Luck, because as they said in WACO, “We Ain’t Coming Out”.
I heard that she now wants to investigate the “Republican 2009 Summer of Love” list: Assemblyman, Michael D. Duvall (CA), Senator John Ensign (NV), Senator Paul Stanley (TN), Governor Mark Stanford (SC), Board of Ed Chair, and Kristin Maguire AKA Bridget Keeney (SC).
I wonder if she is a mail order bride, just like her law degree? She is perfect reporter material for “Fake News”, where unfounded rumors and innuendo reign supreme , unlike a our US courts of law, where you need to present documented facts, not half baked lies (prepare for more failures).
A lawyer, dentist, realtor and black belt, WOW I must say a JACK of all trades master of none.
To give credit where credit is due, Judge Joseph N. Laplante of the New Hampshire District Court first smacked down birtherism in Hollander v. McCain.
And the craziness contines in Orly-land (from her blog):
Sorry, I can’t be a president, I am not a Natural Born citizen, but I can be an Attorney General and I can put all the criminals in prison
Orly? Attorney General???? Now there is a terrifying thought!!!!
As well as the craziness over at tROSL…Our friend from the AGJ website came to lay out his case regarding the President…Humorous stuff as usual…Our friend is still delusional like Orly….Maybe they should get together…
Aristotle the Hun says:
November 4, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Recently some misguided and ill informed person made the mistaken assumption that I was backing off on the eligibility issue.
Here is an update:
1. Citizen Grand Juries that the public knows about are legally impotent but served the useful purpose of educating many citizens as to the evidence against Obama and kept the issue in front of the public eye (at least on the Internet).
2. Civil action like Orly’s have always been doomed and are either a mistake or PSYOPS by Obots. Like the Citizen Grand Juries these efforts kept the issue alive until it is time for the coup de grace.
3. Criminal actions in all 50 states are in process but will not be revealed until the procedurally correct time to do so. Or to make clear a standard protocol of intelligence work; never let the subject know the direction or strategy of an investigation beyond that which keeps him looking over his shoulder. Remember Butch and Sundance saying, “Who are those guys?”
The top five hits on my blog are as follows:
thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2009/04/aka-obama-fans-all-together-now-say-omg.html
hesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2009/07/blank-birth-certificate-form-aka-obama.html
thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2009/05/exposing-obamas-psyops-agents-and.html
thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2009/11/obama-train-wreck-biggest-mistake-in.html
thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2009/02/how-to-create-crisis-and-steal-nation.html
Doc, this guy’s a spammer. he’s put the same message on a number of blogs, including mine.
Yes, I have been cleaning up my blog regularly. It’s a minor annoyance.
Okay new declaration Orly posted on her website
Well we know that #1 is not true.
“My name is Orly Taitz. I am over 18 years old, am of sound mind and free of any mental disease or psychological impairment of any kind or condition.”
And you have to love #13
“As of now I am the only attorney with the courage, integrity and strength of character to not only bring forward information of Mr. Barrack Obama not being eligible for the office of the presidency, but I am also to submit to court information from two licensed investigators, showing that Mr. Obama has used 39 different social security numbers according to national databases, including social security numbers of deceased individuals.”
Talk about delusional AND paranoid!
#14. “I am bringing forward evidence showing that Mr. Barrack Hussein Obama, sitting president, is guilty of multiple felonies, for which he might need to spend the rest of his life in prison.”
15. “I believe, that I am being targeted in an effort to silence me, which involves targeting my law license in an attempt to try to prevent me from proceeding with legal actions on the above issues.”
Although she may be right about #15, but not in the way she thinks. Her law license should be pulled for complete incompetence, and because she is NOT of sound mind, nor is she free psychological impairment.
Yes, I’ve seen it before. Similar posts appeared elsewhere in the past under the name “Paul”.