It has been my longstanding view that the birthers only had one
true argument to suggest Obama was hiding something on the long form birth certificate. I mean, the 2007 Certification of Live Birth really is legal, and it really has a certificate number, stamp and seal; it really is only issued to people born in Hawaii, the newspaper announcements came from the Health Department and on and on. None of those objections is based on a true premise. But there is one thing that is true: up until April 27, 2011, Barack Obama refused to release his long form birth certificate.
Among those reasonable folks who doubt Obama’s place of birth, I have had some success disproving specific false claims, but it always in the end comes down to an argument like: “If Obama’s long form really said what he claims, then he would release it, so his not releasing it makes me believe that the long form has a major problem.”
That argument doesn’t work any more, leaving the reasonable folks satisfied. This shows up in a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll that showed a drop in birther numbers. This poll is interesting because it adds some demographic information. Overall, 80% of Americans are now “definitely believe” Barack Obama was born in the US (69% Republicans, 80% independents, 89% Democrats). Most of the shift was among Republicans, with significant shift in older Americans and those with a college education.
The news will only get worse for the birthers as more polls are taken in the world where the long form is public and Osama sleeps with the fishes. Question for everybody: how many birthers have you seen posting on blogs that they have accepted the president’s legitimacy in the wake of the long form’s release? I think the only one we’ve had here is Robert Clark (and kudos to Mr. Clark for having the integrity to say what would satisfy him up front and accepting it (publicly) when his standard was satisfied). I’m surprised because I didn’t think that people like Mr. Clark (regular birther bloggers with this sort of integrity) were a statistically significant demographic. Since I would assume that the standard response for this group would be to just forget about the issue and move on with their lives (instead of announcing it first like Mr. Clark), I’m wondering if there might be more of these sort of people than I originally thought…
Obama released the long form on April 27, not April 17.
I wonder what the position is now of Terry Lakin, the army officer court martialed for refusing orders to Afghanistan when he was denied a copy of Obama’s BC?
Probably a heartfelt “Oops!”
I think you should apologize to our most prolific thinker, Squeeky Fromm, and admit that she was right all along about all the stuff she told you, and also tell her you are sorry for calling her bad names and stuff.
He was NOT denied a copy of Obama’s BC. He had the same access to the legal copy released by Obama in 2008.
The long form released recently has no legal value or standing as proof of identity.
Lakin is a moron and as a retired vet I have no respect for him at all… or people like you who lie to support him.
C’mon Squeeky, you can’t possibly think we wouldn’t recognize your whiney tone
Will the birthers go after Bobby Jindal in the same way as they have gone after Obama. Yes, Jindal has released his long form. Problem is BOTH his parents are immigrants. According to birther mythology both parents must themselves be native born.
Phil, read FreeRepublic if you want to see him declared “not a NBC” and ineligible. They worry that he has made a deal not to go after Obama, so Jindal will be able to run.
And they’ve stated, in all seriousness, that it is a “FreeRepublic policy” that you have to have two citizen parents to be President.
“it is a “FreeRepublic policy” that you have to have two citizen parents to be President.”
if a candidate violates that policy they get banned from “Free Republic”, yes banned and ridicule from all 7 of the freepers to snear at you. Nasty stuff!
> to our most prolific thinker, Squeeky Fromm
You misspelled “pathetic”.
Daniel, sorry for any confusion. My question would have been more concise if I had asked:
“I wonder what the position is now of Terry Lakin, the army officer court-martialed for refusing orders to Afghanistan when was denied a copy of Obama’ “LONG FORM” BC?”
I’m also a retired vet (submarine service). I believe that the long form BC provides no information relevant to Obama’s eligibility for president that’s not already on the short form. I recently (repeatedly and fruitlessly) attempted to make that point in an email exchange with serial Obama slanderer Devvy Kidd, whose distorted view of the Lakin case can be viewed here: http://www.devvy.com/new_site/TerryLakin-050211.html
I believe it does. As far as I can tell,all the requirements for a “primary identity document” for the issue of a passport are in Obama’s recent long form. I believe the embossed seal is there, although it shows up poorly in the scan releases by the White House. That it’s a unique “one off” makes things a bit more interesting – sort of like the supposed 10 million mile American Airlines frequent flier card from the movie “Up in The/ Air”. What it doesn’t mean is that the computer-printout version has lost its validity.
The short-form and long-form certificates are sufficient proof of the facts stated on each one. As proof of birth in the US, they are proof of US citizenship. Neither is proof of identity, as someone other than Barack Obama II could happen to be holding either document. However, I think we all agree that the man whose photo appears on the White House web site under “President Barack Obama” is indeed the Barack Obama II referenced in those birth records.
Everyone should read the May 6, 2011 blog report written by Charles Edward Lincoln, III, at his TIERRA LIMPIA blog/website.
The blog report is entitled:
“Understanding the law as it is vs. living in denial (Orly Taitz & Gary Kreep before the Ninth Circuit)”
[I fixed the URL. Doc.]
Ok. I read it…and for some reason, wasted time and read all of his blog entries that appeared on his home page (the link you provided had some problems, so I went to his home page).
Other than sharing an appreciation for the movie Thor (and some of the other TV show and book influences he mentions), I find very little from CEL3 in which I can relate to or agree with.
It seems that ALL of his “campaign” issues really stem from personal and professional grievences due to failings in his own life that he doesn’t take any personal responsibility for at all. Most of his writings are full of fluff exaggeration and faux pseudo-intellectualism that comes across as nothing but a transparent and desperate cover for insecurity, if you ask me.
I’m not sure what exactly you wanted us to note or be “impressed” with in his blog posts over there… so, he plans to run on a platform of various crank legal notions of general citizen standing and “taxpayer standing”. …so far not impressed and nothing new. The anti-tax nuts have been failing at pulling that bunk for decades. He basically argues for the same in terms of what he thought Kreep & Orly should have focused on in their appeal. Trust me, that wouldn’t have helped their arguments before the court at all.
Lakin seems unrepentant.
Not sure if this post belongs here, but wow….some of these people are to far gone …
The Refuge of the Gullible Share 0diggs
WHY DO PEOPLE REFUSE TO ADMIT THE TRUTH?
by One Pissed-off Vietnam Vet
A “birth certificate” may not truly be an “identity document” in that it typically doesn’t contain a photo or some other data that can be traced to an actual identity. However – the practical nature is that they are used to establish the “foundation” documents that most people use to establish identity. They need to be handled carefully. There were those stolen or sold Puerto Rican birth certificates that were on the black market, which were then used to obtain driver licenses or other identity documents. It’s been tougher to get driver licenses recently. Some states require a social security number now, and will verify.
Thanks for the clarification/smackdown of Squeeky on Gratewire!
You are squeeky good lord aren’t you tired of looking like an idiot? You’ve already admitted Obama is eligible because of the long form. Now you switch names so you can continue your schtick.
[I have deleted the bulk of Hitandrun’s comment, but the reader may click on the link below to see the entire article. I did this because the comment posted is in violation of the Washington Times reprint policy and a violation of copyright. The Times allows posting of the content of their articles when embedded in a form that also shows their advertising (there is no way to do this in a comment here). To reprint without advertising requires payment of a fee. This is the Washington Post reprint policy.
In the future, any comment that appears to contain major portions of a copyrighted source and no assurance that rights to reprint have been obtained will be deleted. Note that non-commercial web sites are subject to copyright, including blogs like the Post & Email. Read up on “fair use” if you have questions on what is and is not permissible. Doc.]
For the real significance of the birther issue:
[SHAPIRO: Obama’s birth certificate proves Americans are powerless
Rebuff of pro-forma query only added to public’s disillusionment
175 Comments and 12 Reactions|Tweet|Share|Print|Email|More By Jeffrey Scott Shapiro
The Washington Times
5:00 p.m., Wednesday, April 27, 2011
Many Americans were shocked yesterday when President Obama finally released his long-form birth certificate from the state of Hawaii. The real surprise, however, is that for the past three years, our democratic institutions did not address the matter. The media refused to tackle this issue with the same investigative drive with which they investigated Watergate, President Clinton’s alleged indiscretions and the George W. Bush administration’s missteps in Iraq; the courts declined to hear a single case on the issue; and Congress failed to hold any hearings on the matter.
Our government and Fourth Estate failed America in this case. We, the people of the United States, had a right to resolution on this crucial issue, but no one did anything about it. In the end, the White House only relented because the administration knew it could cost votes and a much more expensive 2012 presidential run for Mr. Obama.
Money, not democracy was the currency that brought this issue to a final resolution.]
And only morons didn’t figure it out in 2008
Sorry, your whole screed is a total whiny load of FAIL.
The HI COLB was issued in June of 2008. That is the official HI BC. It already confirmed that Obama was born in Honolulu, HI in 1961 and therefore NBC.
Local newspaper accounts of the birth backed it up.
ALL HI officials on record constantly backed it up.
The LFBC, which HI no longer provides, had to be obtained via the president requesting a specific exception to the HI policies on accessing this document to be made for him.
The LFBC provided nothing new of value to the issue of NBC. Ooohh…you see the name of the hospital and the attending doctor’s signature – BFD. Completely irrelevant info, except as some future Trivial Pursuit question.
The FACT is that Obama’s place of birth had more evidence, documenation and coverage of the issue both during the campaign through now than ANY other candidate or sitting president – EVER.
You are a whiny and unreasable person with a false sense of entitlement that is simply not backed up with any other historical comparisons.
You are simply NOT entitled to any of the stuff that you claim the government, the courts, the media, etc. “owe you”. Tough cookies, but that’s reality. Deal with it.
Let this stupid issue go and move on with your life.
Probably because the affairs of Bush, Clinton, and Nixon were honest-to-God scandals and the affairs of Barack Obama are idiotic conspiracy theories. While we’re on the subject of G. W. Bush, why do you suppose our democratic institutions and the media refused to tackle the 9/11 Truther movement with the same investigative drive as they tackled his administration’s missteps in Iraq?
I hate it when people say “The media is not covering this story!!!!!!” to imply that something is being hidden rather than the more obvious truth that there is no story.
At least light a match if you’re going to leave crap.
“a mountain of evidence”
Speaking of mountains, the tallest mountain is Mauna Kea.
The state of Hawaii had already confirmed the birth of President Obama in Honolulu.
Only idiotic, severely mentally challenged, bigoted, un-American birther scum who have no respect for U.S. laws doubted the legal authority and Republican administration of the state of Hawaii.
I think you’re understating the importance of future Trivial Pursuit questions – some birther’s life my depend on one some day… and how would President Obama feel then if he hadn’t released that ‘completely irrelevant info’?
The Mythbusters busted that. Sorry.
Thanks for the clarification/smackdown of Squeeky on Gratewire!
Can you provide a link?
That’s the link, slart. I don’t know what thread it’s on though. I’m there now and will look for it
I didn’t intend it as a smack down in any sense. The wording was bad in the article (since clarified). All I meant to say is, it’s true — Obama hadn’t released his long form birth certificate (before April 27, 2011).
You were replying to my quote of ‘Checker’ (my bad for screwing up the blockquote) – I looked at what you wrote on Gratewire and I also approve of how you smacked Squeeky down with logic (I believe that it was not your intent, however that doesn’t change the effect…). Good going – people that try to get away with stupid logical fallacies like that are annoying.
I think that the Washington Times reporter missed a very important point. That “obsessed billionaire” and the presidential campaigns are part of our democratic institutions. What the reporter might have correctly said is that the government didn’t force Obama to release his long form birth certificate; however, our “political institutions” did, whichever way you read Obama’s reasons. If you credit Trump, then it was our democratic institution of a grueling political campaign that worked the release, or if you take Obama’s statement as the reason, then it was the battle for attention in the Press and focusing public debate that led to the release. Either way you slice it, our political institutions, including the Executive, the Congress, Political candidates, the Press and the voters are what caused the release of the birth certificate.
I agree. However, I will add that political opinion and voters’ decisions have no immune from becoming irrational or arbitrary. For this reason, our political institutions will at times produce results that are unnecessary, counterproductive, or harmful. Trump wishes to take credit for causing Obama to obtain and release a certified photocopy of his original birth certificate, but this was in effect using the political system for frivolous purposes. He had every democratic right to shout nonsense, but it was a shame that it took several weeks and an exception to the normal practices of the Hawaii Department of Health for Trump to have been widely recognised for the fool that he is. Others who participate in democracy, such as those interviewing him, ought to have informed their viewers that nearly everything that Trump said was demonstrably wrong as a matter of fact and abstract copies of birth records are perfectly common and legitimate. Trump’s role was well within the rights that must exist within a democracy, but it was still a farce.