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Zullo tries to pull off a fast one on sheriffs

Long-discredited rumors repackaged

In a video presentation by Mike Zullo to the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association on June 1, pretty much everything he said was false besides his name. Zullo has made the claim that Obots don’t understand vital records. I have over 30 years professional experience with vital records, and I can assure the reader that Zullo is the one who is clueless in this area.

Let me give an example of a fast one that comes at around 49:00 in the video of the presentation. Here’s the transcript:

In 1961, the term used to describe black people on a birth certificate was “negro.”  In order to document this we obtained the 1960 vital statistics instruction manual containing the instructions for coding race on a birth certificate that where followed by every health department in the United States, including the Hawaiian Health Department. As you can see, if the parents race was reported as “colored,” “black,” “brown,” or “Afro-American” the Department of Health Services was required to consider the parents a “negro.” For those of you who may be wondering why the 1960 manual was consulted instead of the 1961 manual, it’s because the 1961 manual wasn’t published until 10 days after Barack Obama’s birth…

In a prior press conference, Zullo showed a code manual that he said was from 1961 and claimed that penciled notations on Obama’s form were in error, not matching the codes in this manual. I caught Zullo in the lie. His two manual screen shots were from 1968 and 1969 and the codes were wrong for 1961: fake manual, false conclusion. This time, he has abandoned the fraudulent codes and fallen back on a much older and long-discredited Internet myth (I debunked this in 2009 and 2012), that Obama’s father’s race says “African” where regulations require “negro” bolstered by what he calls a 1960 manual1. Whether his manual was from 1960, 1961, 1968 or 1969 doesn’t matter because his citation is inapplicable, misleading, and in a fake context.

Note the verbal slight of hand: the Zullo video says, “if the parents race was reported as ‘colored,’ ‘black,’ ‘brown,’ or ‘Afro-American’ the Department of Health Services was required to consider the parents a ‘negro.’’’ Barack Obama’s father reported his race as “African.” Is that “colored?” Is that “black?” Is that “brown?” Is that “Afro-American”? No, no, no and no. Is Zullo trying to trick the sheriffs? The instructions do NOT say to consider the race “negro” instead of “African,” and for the ethno­graphic­ally impaired, not all Africans (and not all Kenyans) are black. Zullo’s 1960 manual on screen was illegible, but the same section in the 1961 manual says: “If the birth place of the parent is not in the United States consider the parent’s race as “other non-white.”2Even that really doesn’t apply because “African” was not in the list.

Now again, listen to exactly what Zullo said: “if the parents race was reported as “colored,” “black,” “brown,” or “Afro-American” the Department of Health Services was required to consider the parents a ‘negro’.” Now, look at that carefully. What is the “Department of Health Services?” It’s not the 1961 Hawaii Health Bureau. Is it the later federal Department of Health and Human services (in 1960-61 it was the Department of Health, Education and Welfare)? Zullo would have the slow-witted reader to gloss over this ambiguity about a manual that was not intended for vital records processing for the State of Hawaii; the federal manual’s purpose is to tell the federal government how to key in the data from microfilmed records received from the states. I don’t know the precise manual that Zullo is citing, but it may well not even be a manual for use by states at all.

Let’s look back at what Zullo said one more time: “if the parents race was reported as “colored,” “black,” “brown,” or “Afro-American” the Department of Health Services was required to consider the parents a ‘negro’.” Note that the manual says “consider the parents a negro.” It does not say “change the race to negro” but “consider” it negro. In fact, “changing” it would be nonsensical because parents’ race was NOT PART OF THE 1960-61 FEDERAL DATA SET. The context of the quotation from Zullo (and you can see the same thing in the Federal manual from 1961) is that when determining the race of the child, one looks at the race of the parents, and for that purpose a colored/black/brown/Afro-American person is considered negro.

The second misleading part of the presentation derives comes from Zullo’s fundamental ignorance of vital records. As someone long involved in vital records information technology, one of the very first concepts I learned is that vital records are actually two things: a statistical record and a legal record. The first may be changed; the second cannot be changed, only amended through a formal process. The federal manual had to do with data coding and it basically tells someone what code to use in the federal data set for the race of the child after considering the reported race of the parents from a microfilmed copy of the birth certificate. It has no relevance to the legal record, which after all is a document of information provided by the informant (usually a parent) and the witness (usually a doctor), sworn as true under penalty of law. Could you imagine swearing a statement under oath, and then somebody just going in and changing it later? —totally absurd. And what sense does it make for the federal government data entry process that happened after a birth certificate has been registered, filed and microfilmed to apply back to what was reported in a state?

Zullo then presents (and I use the word loosely because he doesn’t actually show the image) a birth certificate where the word “colored” was changed to “negro.” What he doesn’t say is who changed it. He would leave the viewer with the idea that the Hawaii Health Bureau changed it because of federal rule that DOES NOT APPLY. Generally with a signed document, you don’t make changes AFTER the document is signed (or the changes are initialed). It is, after all, a legal record! This leads one to believe that this change was made at the hospital and not by the State Health Bureau, and even if the hospital following a hypothetical state guideline did this and got the parent to agree to it and sign it, it would not have applied to someone who was “African.” A birth certificate is a legal record, and once it is signed under penalty of law, it can only be changed by amendment. Zullo, never having worked at a vital records agency, doesn’t appreciate such things and doesn’t understand the concept of the legal record. We further know from other examples of Hawaiian birth certificates that all sorts of crazy stuff was reported for parents’ race.

What the manual Zullo cites really says is that when Barack Obama’s microfilmed birth certificate was processed by the federal government, the race of Barack Obama’s father was considered to be something for the purpose of determining the statistical classification of his son’s birth. The data entry for Obama’s birth at the federal level would have been done according to 1961 rules. I find the rules somewhat ambiguous and a supervisor would have had the discretion to go one way or another. My personal view is that Obama Sr.’s race was considered “unknown” and if that is so, the President’s birth was statistically counted as “white.” See my article: “Shocking revelation: President Obama may be ‘white.’

Make no mistake about it, if any vital statistics subject matter expert were ever to testify in court, they would say essentially what I have said, and Zullo if he had repeated what we see in the video in court, would be impeached. This is why, of course, Zullo has blown off subpoenas in the past. He could not stand up to cross examination.


1Lest anyone think that the 1960 manual somehow excuses the lies told at the earlier press conference, the codes in 1960 and 1961 are the same

2This is because, for example, “coloured” refers to people of Indonesian and Indian descent in South Africa. In British usage, “colored” simply refers to non-white.

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459 Responses to Zullo tries to pull off a fast one on sheriffs

  1. avatar
    john June 2, 2013 at 4:38 pm #

    I don’t know. I guess Zullo is assuming that if Barack Obama Sr. said he was “African”(Black) then is should have been considered “Negro”) Zullo does apparently have proof that he was able to obtain 2 birth certificates where the parents were black. Corrections were made to make sure they were listed as “Negro”. Anyway, why wouldn’t a black person from US say he was African – Isn’t that where they ultimately came from?

  2. avatar
    john June 2, 2013 at 4:44 pm #

    Another thing that bothers me. Zullo described that the birth certificates were double checked and if corrections needed to be made, a line was drawn through the item. On Barack Obama’s BC, Stanley Ann Dunham signs her name “Ann Dunham”. A correction is made by adding “Stanley” in “()” over Ann. This seems incorrect with Zullo’s error description process. It might also prove fruitful to find another birth certificate with the same error correction characteristic.

  3. avatar
    SueDB June 2, 2013 at 5:01 pm #

    “”Now again, listen to exactly what Zullo said: “if the parents race was reported as “colored,” “black,” “brown,” or “Afro-American” the Department of Health Services was required to consider the parents a ‘negro’.””

    The entry was “African”. I don’t see where “African” would be included on Supreme Commandante Zullo’s made up list to be changed to “negro” There are a number of citizens of the RSA who would take severe offense at that.

  4. avatar
    nbc June 2, 2013 at 5:06 pm #

    Note the bait and switch. It does not say that the race of the parent is to be changed to negro, but rather that for purpose of determining the race of the child, the race of the parent should be considered to be negro.

    Zullo’s ‘mistake’ is that he conflates two separate issues. If Ladyforrest is to be taken seriously, Zullo appears to have known about these issues.

  5. avatar
    ArthurWankspittle June 2, 2013 at 5:11 pm #

    “In British usage, “colored” simply refers to non-white.”
    Actually, old chap, the British would call them “coloured”, don’t you know.

  6. avatar
    gorefan June 2, 2013 at 6:18 pm #

    “Generally with a signed document, you don’t make changes AFTER the document is signed (or the changes are initialed).”

    Like this?

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FTert1Q4xsE/TwdRnXYKEpI/AAAAAAAAD5k/-WWL145Ew6I/s1600/VS_DC.jpg

  7. avatar
    Hermitian June 2, 2013 at 6:42 pm #

    Since you claim to be an expert on everything related to vital statistics, then you would know where the microfilm reel containing the record of Obama’s birth that was provided to the Federal Government by law in 1961 is currently archived. In that case you would be obligated to inform your readers as to its existence so that it can be produced for examination by forensic experts.

  8. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 2, 2013 at 6:53 pm #

    My expertise is primarily at the state level. I do not know if these records were retained or not. If it were examined, the birthers would say it was a fake. Why bother?

    Hermitian: Since you claim to be an expert on everything related to vital statistics,

  9. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 2, 2013 at 7:01 pm #

    A normal listener believes that a narrative is supposed to make sense and to build a logical case. Using that bias, Zullo attempts to state the literal truth while making the listener hear something different. The listener assumes that Zullo is saying that if Obama Sr. had written “African” for his race, then the State of Hawaii would have crossed it out and written “negro.” He never says this that I noticed, and it would be nonsense if he did. Nevertheless, that’s what the normal listener hears, and there is a clear intent to mislead. That’s why I didn’t use the “lie” word, but rather “pull a fast one.”

    nbc: Note the bait and switch.

  10. avatar
    Bob June 2, 2013 at 7:04 pm #

    The only thing I see coming out of Zullo’s presentation is that one or two of these sheriffs might be inspired to get into grifting.

  11. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny June 2, 2013 at 7:16 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: That’s why I didn’t use the “lie” word, but rather “pull a fast one.”

    He was simply being economical with the truth.

  12. avatar
    Yoda June 2, 2013 at 7:17 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    A normal listener believes that a narrative is supposed to make sense and to build a logical case. Using that bias, Zullo attempts to state the literal truth while making the listener hear something different. The listener assumes that Zullo is saying that if Obama Sr. had written “African” for his race, then the State of Hawaii would have crossed it out and written “negro.” He never says this that I noticed, and it would be nonsense if he did. Nevertheless, that’s what the normal listener hears, and there is a clear intent to mislead. That’s why I didn’t use the “lie” word, but rather “pull a fast one.”

    You mean he is acting like a used car salesman? I am shocked, shocked I say.

    Captain, here are your winnings.

  13. avatar
    Hermitian June 2, 2013 at 7:24 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    My expertise is primarily at the state level. I do not know if these records were retained or not. If it were examined, the birthers would say it was a fake. Why bother?

    I thought you had lots of friends at NARA.

    It would be near impossible to fake an intact reel of microfilm. One would need all of the original birth certificates to produce the fake.

  14. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny June 2, 2013 at 7:33 pm #

    SueDB:
    “”Now again, listen to exactly what Zullo said: “if the parents race was reported as “colored,” “black,” “brown,” or “Afro-American” the Department of Health Services was required to consider the parents a ‘negro’.””

    The entry was “African”.I don’t see where “African” would be included on Supreme Commandante Zullo’s made up list to be changed to “negro”There are a number of citizens of the RSA who would take severe offense at that.

    The whole procedure was a purely administrative procedure, carried out by statistical bureaucrats from Hawaii to send on data to statistical bureaucrats on the federal level so that politicians and others in Washington would have an indication of the future racial make-up of the various states. Nothing was changed at the window to customer level. No birth certificates were changed.

    Since the parents did not have to provide photographs, those state or federal statisticians had no way of knowing how to interpret the word “Äfrican”. Sub-Saharan black (“negro” as they were called in those days), North African (not so much darker than Spaniards), East African Arab (about seven eighths black), Asian from Eastern and Southern Africa, colored from South Africa (mostly Malay but also various Khoikhoi admixtures) or even white from South Africa?

  15. avatar
    gorefan June 2, 2013 at 7:34 pm #

    Here is another example of an apparent change made to a BC after it was signed by the mother, the doctor and the registrar.

    http://passportsusa.com/wp-content/gallery/passportusa/edith_front.jpg

    Box 7d Old Plantation Road is much fainter than the rest of the typed information and it doesn’t quite line up with the rest of the left margin’s typed text. Also in box 7e are the handwritten date (6/21/62) and someone’s initials (IMO, VL for Verna Lee). Box 7d and 7e go hand-in-hand since if you don’t have a street address how can you determine if the residence is within the city limits?

    Apparently, the BC was filled out originally but the street address (box 7d) of the mother’s usual residence was missing. As was the check mark for box 7e.

  16. avatar
    john June 2, 2013 at 7:38 pm #

    I tend to agree Paul But Zullo does have the corrected BC’s in his possession. Nevertheless the birth certificate is still a forgery not withstanding Doc C’s nitpicking. Mike Zullo said that even other sheriffs and investigations saw things and had ideas on the BC that lead to same conclusion – forgery.

  17. avatar
    Bonsall Obot June 2, 2013 at 8:01 pm #

    Careful, john; you’ll throw your back out, twisting yourself into knots like that.

    My favorite birfoon axiom: If something COULD have happened that advances Our Noble Cause, then it therefore MUST have happened.

  18. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 2, 2013 at 8:23 pm #

    john: Anyway, why wouldn’t a black person from US say he was African – Isn’t that where they ultimately came from?

    My family – both sides – came from Germany in the mid-1800′s. Should I call myself a German? Or European?

  19. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 2, 2013 at 8:29 pm #

    Hermitian: In that case you would be obligated to inform your readers as to its existence so that it can be produced for examination by forensic experts.

    Where does it end for you, Herm? Are you saying government handbook used 50+ years ago may be a forgery?

  20. avatar
    Sactosintolerant June 2, 2013 at 9:05 pm #

    CarlOrcas: My family – both sides – came from Germany in the mid-1800′s. Should I call myself a German? Or European?

    RWNJs think we should ALL unhyphenated Americans… except when we shouldn’t.

  21. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 2, 2013 at 9:10 pm #

    Actually, it is quite easy to fake an intact reel of microfilm. All you have to do is show and the authentic one with Obama’s birth certificate on it, and the birthers will quickly prove that it is a fake.

    Hermitian: It would be near impossible to fake an intact reel of microfilm. One would need all of the original birth certificates to produce the fake.

  22. avatar
    Majority Will June 2, 2013 at 9:12 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    A normal listener believes that a narrative is supposed to make sense and to build a logical case. Using that bias, Zullo attempts to state the literal truth while making the listener hear something different. The listener assumes that Zullo is saying that if Obama Sr. had written “African” for his race, then the State of Hawaii would have crossed it out and written “negro.” He never says this that I noticed, and it would be nonsense if he did. Nevertheless, that’s what the normal listener hears, and there is a clear intent to mislead. That’s why I didn’t use the “lie” word, but rather “pull a fast one.”

    Lying by omission (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lying_by_omission) is idiosyncratic for many birther bigots.

    Deliberate deception creates the smoke from their smoke machines when they’re telling gullible rubes it must have been a fire.

  23. avatar
    Yoda June 2, 2013 at 9:15 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Actually, it is quite easy to fake an intact reel of microfilm. All you have to do is show and the authentic one with Obama’s birth certificate on it, and the birthers will quickly prove that it is a fake.

    Doc, I laugh whenever I hear Zullo or any other birther claim “all he has to do is show…………..” It is an absolute lie. Frankly, I wish the President had not ever released the lfbc in any form. I wish he had just told them to go pound sand. Screw them.

  24. avatar
    Majority Will June 2, 2013 at 9:24 pm #

    “It would be near impossible to fake an intact reel of microfilm.”

    To a delusional birther bigot, any and all evidence that doesn’t confirm the idiotic, racist and political birther agenda is always a forgery.

  25. avatar
    Joey June 2, 2013 at 9:50 pm #

    The multi-ethnic and multi-racial makeup of the state of Hawaii is an important factor in this debate. When factcheck.org did its report on the Obama COLB back in 2009, they contacted The Hawaii Department of Health to inquire about a father’s race being listed as “African” and the spokesman for HDOH named Kurt Tsue told them: “that father’s race and mother’s race are supplied by the parents, and that ‘we accept what the parents self identify themselves to be.’”
    http://www.factcheck.org/2008/08/born-in-the-usa/

    In Hawaii you will find racial designations such as “Korean,” “Japanese,” “Chinese-Portuguese,” “Hawaiian-Caucasian,” “Spanish-Puerto Rican,” and many other non-standard designations on government documents that have a racial category.
    In a state where only 23% of the population is white and only 2% is black, you’re going to find many more non-standard designations.

  26. avatar
    Majority Will June 2, 2013 at 10:24 pm #

    Joey:
    The multi-ethnic and multi-racial makeup of the state of Hawaii is an important factor in this debate. When factcheck.org did its report on the Obama COLB back in 2009, they contacted The Hawaii Department of Health to inquire about a father’s race being listed as “African” and the spokesman for HDOH named Kurt Tsue told them: “that father’s race and mother’s race are supplied by the parents, and that ‘we accept what the parents self identify themselves to be.’”
    http://www.factcheck.org/2008/08/born-in-the-usa/

    In Hawaii you will find racial designations such as “Korean,” “Japanese,” “Chinese-Portuguese,” “Hawaiian-Caucasian,” “Spanish-Puerto Rican,” and many other non-standard designations on government documents that have a racial category.
    In a state where only 23% of the population is white and only 2% is black, you’re going to find many more non-standard designations.

    We’ve witnessed time and again that multi-culturalism is anathema to many birther bigots who fantasize about a world of ethnic purity. Their deliberate historical revisionism is a pathetic attempt to bolster their bigoted delusions.

  27. avatar
    JPotter June 2, 2013 at 10:33 pm #

    Hermitian: It would be near impossible to fake an intact reel of microfilm. One would need all of the original birth certificates to produce the fake.

    Why do you have such a limited imagination alla sudden?

  28. avatar
    JPotter June 2, 2013 at 10:36 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    A normal listener believes that a narrative is supposed to make sense and to build a logical case. Using that bias, Zullo attempts to state the literal truth while making the listener hear something different. The listener assumes that Zullo is saying that if Obama Sr. had written “African” for his race, then the State of Hawaii would have crossed it out and written “negro.” He never says this that I noticed, and it would be nonsense if he did. Nevertheless, that’s what the normal listener hears, and there is a clear intent to mislead. That’s why I didn’t use the “lie” word, but rather “pull a fast one.”

    Thanks for the lengthy effort, Doc. It is frustrating to see misinformation being continuously re-peddled no matter how often refuted. Grifters gotta grift.

  29. avatar
    nbc June 3, 2013 at 12:19 am #

    Hermitian: Since you claim to be an expert on everything related to vital statistics, then you would know where the microfilm reel containing the record of Obama’s birth that was provided to the Federal Government by law in 1961 is currently archived. In that case you would be obligated to inform your readers as to its existence so that it can be produced for examination by forensic experts.

    I was not aware that such documents were provided to the federal government…

    Vital records most commonly refer to records such as birth and death certificates, marriage licenses and divorce decrees, wills and the like. These records are created by local authorities, and with possible exceptions for events overseas, in the military, or in the District of Columbia. They are not considered Federal records; therefore they are not held by NARA.

    What am I missing?

  30. avatar
    nbc June 3, 2013 at 12:27 am #

    Here is what is stored

    Categories of records in the system: The records include microfilm or paper images of State records or machine-readable data prepared by the State from records collected under the laws of each State for births, deaths, and fetal deaths. The records contain the demographic characteristics of individuals associated with each event. In addition, the birth records include information on the characteristics of each live birth, the health status of the infant, and socioeconomic characteristics of the parents.

    But as to what happens to these

    Destroy or return to the registration area copies of source documents for all vital statistics events three months after the release of the Advance Report. If problems are detected prior to or following the release of the Advance Report, copies of the source documents may be retained until the problems are resolved but not later than the date the Annual Volumes are released. In no case shall copies be retained more than 48 months after the end of the data year (e.g., December 31, 2005 for data year 2001) unless specific permission is requested from the States.

    So why do you believe such records exist Hermitian or are you confused as to the nature of the records?

  31. avatar
    nbc June 3, 2013 at 12:41 am #

    I see what you are referring to

    With the exceptions noted in the next paragraph, natality tabulations for 1961 are based on information obtained from microfilm copies of the original certificates. These copies were received from the registration offices of all States, certain cities, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands. The statistical information on these records mas edited, classified, placed on punchcards, and tabulated in the National Vital Statistics Division (NVSD).

    The 1961 birth statistics for California, Georgia, Michigan, and New York City were produced by a somewhat different procedure. The vital statistics offices of these
    areas coded the information on their certificates according to the rules followed in NVSD. From punchcards prepared for their own use, they reproduced the information required for national tabulations on uniform punchcard forms. The reproduced cards were verified and tabulated with the cards for the other areas.

    Unlikely that the records were kept any longer than was necessary for entering the relevant data.

  32. avatar
    nbc June 3, 2013 at 1:10 am #

    JPotter: He never says this that I noticed, and it would be nonsense if he did. Nevertheless, that’s what the normal listener hears, and there is a clear intent to mislead. That’s why I didn’t use the “lie” word, but rather “pull a fast one.

    It’s the car salesman in him :-)

  33. avatar
    richCares June 3, 2013 at 1:54 am #

    john says “Nevertheless the birth certificate is still a forgery ”
    since Zullo never attempted to see the original how can he make any claims. He had not contacted any of the reporters who saw it (including Savannah who photoed it)
    so how can Zullo or john make their silly claims. Tell us john.

  34. avatar
    nbc June 3, 2013 at 2:06 am #

    john: Nevertheless the birth certificate is still a forgery not withstanding Doc C’s nitpicking. Mike Zullo said that even other sheriffs and investigations saw things and had ideas on the BC that lead to same conclusion – forgery.

    Forgery based on a highly compressed document of the original, which has been verified and certified many times now?

    What a fool… Let’s hope he convinces congress to take this up. Obama can use a stronger house…

  35. avatar
    ArthurWankspittle June 3, 2013 at 3:36 am #

    CarlOrcas: My family – both sides – came from Germany in the mid-1800′s. Should I call myself a German? Or European?

    In Birtherstan, it won’t matter; if you are black, it will be “corrected” to “negro”,
    Also, confirming a point others have made, in those days you would never call a white South African or Rhodesian (the old Zimbabwe) “African”.

  36. avatar
    bovril June 3, 2013 at 3:47 am #

    So John, our dear, deluded, inbred fool

    If said BC is “a forgery” how come the Constitutionally sufficient custodian of the record of said BC has on multiple occassions stated, on the record, that the data, content and actual BC are whole and accurate..?

    Please elucidate, inquiring minds are curious

  37. avatar
    Reality Check June 3, 2013 at 7:21 am #

    Does anyone else besides me find this argument by Zullo more than a little racist? It is as if he was saying “if this uppity n—–r called himself ‘African’ a clerk would have corrected it to the proper term for them Negroids”. The entire fascination with race codes is disturbing.

  38. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 3, 2013 at 7:59 am #

    I for one don’t see the argument as particularly racist, just one of many misunderstandings about details. If it were the only argument, I might take it as more significant, but it is just one item in a very long list of alleged anomalies. No, what bothers me here is not racism but dishonesty.

    Reality Check: Does anyone else besides me find this argument by Zullo more than a little racist? It is as if he was saying “if this uppity n—–r called himself ‘African’ a clerk would have corrected it to the proper term for them Negroids”. The entire fascination with race codes is disturbing.

  39. avatar
    Hermitian June 3, 2013 at 8:01 am #

    john:
    Another thing that bothers me.Zullo described that the birth certificates were double checked and if corrections needed to be made, a line was drawn through the item.On Barack Obama’s BC, Stanley Ann Dunham signs her name “Ann Dunham”.A correction is made by adding “Stanley” in “()” over Ann.This seems incorrect with Zullo’s error description process. It might also prove fruitful to find another birth certificate with the same error correction characteristic.

    Maybe the ones with strikeouts and corrections that were shown in the Zullo video?

    He’s got several real certificates for evidence. How many do you Obots have?

    I’ll save you the trouble —- you have zero…none…nada….nothing !

  40. avatar
    Reality Check June 3, 2013 at 8:11 am #

    I understand what you are saying but the assumption that all Africans are “negroes” is rooted in racist thinking. Do you think this would be an issue if Obama’s father was Japanese in origin and the standard coding were “Oriental”? Nope not for a minute. Of course if Obama’s father were Japanese we wouldn’t have Birthers.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I for one don’t see the argument as particularly racist, just one of many misunderstandings about details. If it were the only argument, I might take it as more significant, but it is just one item in a very long list of alleged anomalies. No, what bothers me here is not racism but dishonesty.

  41. avatar
    Hermitian June 3, 2013 at 8:11 am #

    CarlOrcas: Hermitian

    No I am saying that the prevailing Federal Law in 1961 required the state of Hawaii to provide microfilm copies of all the live births in the State of Hawaii. Therefore the Federal Government should have in its possession said microfilm reel containing the exact negative film image of Obama’s purported Hawaii birth certificate.

    This raises the following interesting question:

    Has Obama ordered this record to be sealed under the authority of his own 2009 executive order?

  42. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 3, 2013 at 8:12 am #

    Actually Zullo has no instance of a change from African to Negro. And I have examples of “non standard” racial categories. So I have proof that they didn’t always standardize the race codes.

    It’s like trying to conform that “there are no black crows.” You can show two black crows, but all I have to do is show one white one, and I win.

    Hermitian: Maybe the ones with strikeouts and corrections that were shown in the Zullo video?

    He’s got several real certificates for evidence. How many do you Obots have?

    I’ll save you the trouble —- you have zero…none…nada….nothing !

  43. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 3, 2013 at 8:18 am #

    I think that last hits the point as you said “If Obama’s father were Japanese we wouldn’t have Birthers.” But let’s say that Obama’s father was a Japanese Muslim. Then I think we would have birthers, and that a race coding argument might have been made. The “negro” argument works because the term has been one widely discussed and in my lifetime I’ve seen colored, negro, black and African-American come in and out of vogue. Everybody knows a little about the subject and so through Dunning-Kruger, then think they are experts.

    Reality Check: I understand what you are saying but the assumption that all Africans are “negroes” is rooted in racist thinking. Do you think this would be an issue if Obama’s father was Japanese in origin and the standard coding were “Oriental”? Nope not for a minute. Of course if Obama’s father were Japanese we wouldn’t have Birthers.

  44. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 3, 2013 at 8:20 am #

    And the policy required that they be returned to the states or destroyed after processing. So that’s a dead end. Source:

    http://www.cdc.gov/SORNnotice/09-20-0166.htm

    Hermitian: No I am saying that the prevailing Federal Law in 1961 required the state of Hawaii to provide microfilm copies of all the live births in the State of Hawaii.

  45. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 3, 2013 at 8:27 am #

    No, “presidential records” in the executive order are defined as records created by the White House during Obama’s term. Birthers long cite this order as sealing records about Obama’s past, but this is utter nonsense. I thought you were a little higher quality birther than that.

    Hermitian: Has Obama ordered this record to be sealed under the authority of his own 2009 executive order?

  46. avatar
    bovril June 3, 2013 at 8:36 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I thought you were a little higher quality birther than that.

    H’mmmmm “Higher Quaility” would be the difference between sh*t fondler and coprophiliac, more expensive wording, same disgusting fetish.

  47. avatar
    Yoda June 3, 2013 at 8:59 am #

    Hermitian: No I am saying that the prevailing Federal Law in 1961 required the state of Hawaii to provide microfilm copies of all the live births in the State of Hawaii.Therefore the Federal Government should have in its possession said microfilm reel containing the exact negative film image of Obama’s purported Hawaii birth certificate.

    This raises the following interesting question:

    Has Obama ordered this record to be sealed under the authority of his own 2009 executive order?

    For many of us on the right side of this discussion the birthers’ dishonesty is the most troublesome aspect of birthers. For others it is the pure hatred of the President, for still others it is the abject stupidity. For me it is the pure laziness.

    For example, Hermy here persists in stating the EO myth. I have to assume that he never read it because it clearly does not say what he, or any of the birthers claim. I don’t expect birthers to believe me, or any of us, but 10 mins of reading primary sources will debunk a lot of birther myths.

    People cannot be blamed for their stupidity, but willful ignorance is a disgrace.

  48. avatar
    Yoda June 3, 2013 at 9:02 am #

    Hermitian: Maybe the ones with strikeouts and corrections that were shown in the Zullo video?

    He’s got several real certificates for evidence.How many do you Obots have?

    I’ll save you the trouble —- you have zero…none…nada….nothing !

    I assume you mean other than the certified copies of the COLB and the LFBC that Hawaii produced.

  49. avatar
    Majority Will June 3, 2013 at 9:14 am #

    “Has Obama ordered this record to be sealed under the authority of his own 2009 executive order?”

    Amazing and completely fabricated nonsense.

    It’s hard to decide whether some of the remaining hardcore birther bigots are morons, dishonest propagandists or a combination of both.

    This is a classic example of birther bigot dishonesty.

    “WAR IS PEACE,” “FREEDOM IS SLAVERY,” “IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.”
    - the Birther Bigot Mantra

    (excerpt from usgovinfo.about.com) Obama’s first executive order merely rescinded an earlier executive order severely limiting public access to presidential records after they left office.

    That now-rescinded executive order, 13233, was signed by then-President George W. Bush on Nov. 1, 2001. It allowed former presidents and even family members to declare executive privilege and block public access to White House records for virtually any reason.

    Rescinding Bush-Era Secrecy

    Bush’s measure was criticized heavily and challenged in court. The Society of American Archivists called Bush’s executive order a “complete abnegation of the original 1978 Presidential Records Act.” The Presidential Records Act mandates the preservation of presidential records and makes them available to the public.

    Obama agreed with the criticism.

    “For a long time now, there’s been too much secrecy in this city. This administration stands on the side not of those who seek to withhold information but with those who seek it to be known,” Obama said after signing the order rescinding the Bush-era measure.

    “The mere fact that you have the legal power to keep something secret does not mean you should always use it. Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency.”

    (emphasis added)

    (http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/thepresidentandcabinet/a/obamas-first-executive-order.htm)

    Here’s a link to the full text for the curious or reality and mentally challenged:

    Executive Order 13489 of January 21, 2009 (rescinding G.W. Bush’s 13233)

    http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13489

    On the other hand, I can’t recall one birther bigot crying foul over this:

    (excerpt) The Bush White House email controversy surfaced in 2007, during the controversy involving the dismissal of eight U.S. attorneys. Congressional requests for administration documents while investigating the dismissals of the U.S. attorneys required the Bush administration to reveal that not all internal White House emails were available, because they were sent via a non-government domain hosted on an email server not controlled by the federal government.

    Conducting governmental business in this manner is a possible violation of the Presidential Records Act of 1978, and the Hatch Act. Over 5 million emails may have been lost or deleted. Greg Palast claims to have come up with 500 of the Karl Rove lost emails, leading to damaging allegations.

    In 2009, it was announced that as many as 22 million emails may have been deleted.

    (emphasis added)

    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversy)

  50. avatar
    Hermitian June 3, 2013 at 10:00 am #

    Mr. Conspiracy

    “This time, he has abandoned the fraudulent codes and fallen back on a much older and long-discredited Internet myth (I debunked this in 2009 and 2012), that Obama’s father’s race says “African” where regulations require “negro” bolstered by what he calls a 1960 manual1. Whether his manual was from 1960, 1961, 1968 or 1969 doesn’t matter because his citation is inapplicable, misleading, and in a fake context.”

    “1Lest anyone think that the 1960 manual somehow excuses the lies told at the earlier press conference, the codes in 1960 and 1961 are the same”

    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    Talk about a repeat screwup!

    I’m getting tired of correcting Mr. C’s repeat error over and over again…

    The title of the punch card manual that Mr. C previously obtained via FOIA and then claimed that it is the correct manual for determining the race of all newborns in 1961:

    “Division of Data Processing
    Vital Statistics Programming Branch
    Tape File information
    1960-1961 Natality Tape Files for the United States”

    My source for the actual title of the 1960 manual:

    “NATIONAL CENTER FOR HEALTH STATISTICS”

    “VITAL STATISTICS OF
    “THE UNITED STATES “1960
    “VOLUME I-NATALITY”

    Title of the correct 1960 manual:

    “1The complete rules followed in the classification of geo-
    graphic and personal items for births and deaths are set forth in

    “Vital Statistics Instruction Manual, Part II, Section B,
    Coding and Punching Geographic and Personal Particulars-
    Births, Deaths, and Fetal Deaths Occurring in 1960, National
    office of Vital Statistics, Washington, 1960.”

    What do you want to bet that Zullo got the correct 1960 code manual from Verna K. Lee?

    Then what do you want to bet that Mr. C is dead wrong because he doesn’t (and never did) have the 1960 manual?

    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

  51. avatar
    Thinker June 3, 2013 at 10:40 am #

    Hermi: You and other birfers seem to have gotten so wrapped up in trolling that you have forgotten the main obstacle that birfers will always face and the reason why they will never win. It doesn’t matter how many “real certificates for evidence” fake detective Zullo has or Obots have. What matters is that the State of Hawaii has one real birth certificate for Barack Obama. They have repeatedly verified this fact. Unless birfers can come up with some convincing evidence that Obama was born somewhere other than Hawaii or the State of Hawaii says they do not have a birth certificate for Barack Obama, birfers will never win. No crank analyses of compression algorithms or ahistorical analyses of racial categorization or nutty word-parsing about indirect confirmations will ever convince a court to allow any sort of discovery on birfer issues.

    Birfers will never, ever win. Ever. No winning for birfers. Ever.

    Hermitian:
    He’s got several real certificates for evidence.How many do you Obots have?

    I’ll save you the trouble —- you have zero…none…nada….nothing !

  52. avatar
    donna June 3, 2013 at 10:51 am #

    Hermitian:

    we have 3 VERIFICATIONS from hawaii – had a certified birth certificate been released on toilet paper and in crayon it would still be “”prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding”

  53. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 3, 2013 at 10:55 am #

    Reality Check:
    Does anyone else besides me find this argument by Zullo more than a little racist? It is as if he was saying “if this uppity n—–r called himself ‘African’ a clerk would have corrected it to the proper term for them Negroids”. The entire fascination with race codes is disturbing.

    I agree with Doc…..I don’t see this particular nit they’re picking as overtly racist but racism is the genesis of the whole movement.

  54. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 3, 2013 at 10:57 am #

    Hermitian: This raises the following interesting question:

    Has Obama ordered this record to be sealed under the authority of his own 2009 executive order?

    It only raises the question for the willfully ignorant.

  55. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 3, 2013 at 11:01 am #

    Yoda: I assume you mean other than the certified copies of the COLB and the LFBC that Hawaii produced.

    No, no…..those aren’t visible in Birtherstan. It has something to do with the Space-time continuum I suspect.

  56. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater June 3, 2013 at 11:05 am #

    Hermitian: Maybe the ones with strikeouts and corrections that were shown in the Zullo video?He’s got several real certificates for evidence. How many do you Obots have?I’ll save you the trouble —- you have zero…none…nada….nothing !

    How does Zullo’s claims matter? It’s another So What moment. Do any of those certificates contain foreign parents? No? Then what relevance does it have?

  57. avatar
    Hermitian June 3, 2013 at 11:06 am #

    Thinker:
    Hermi: You and other birfers seem to have gotten so wrapped up in trolling that you have forgotten the main obstacle that birfers will always face and the reason why they will never win. It doesn’t matter how many “real certificates for evidence” fake detective Zullo has or Obots have. What matters is that the State of Hawaii has one real birth certificate for Barack Obama. They have repeatedly verified this fact. Unless birfers can come up with some convincing evidence that Obama was born somewhere other than Hawaii or the State of Hawaii says they do not have a birth certificate for Barack Obama, birfers will never win. No crank analyses of compression algorithms or ahistorical analyses of racial categorization or nutty word-parsing about indirect confirmations will ever convince a court to allow any sort of discovery on birfer issues.

    Birfers will never, ever win. Ever. No winning for birfers. Ever.

    Hey Dude! — you Obots were the only ones pushing the file compression ruse. Of course none of you has demonstrated how the nine layers within the WH LFCOLB PDF image were created using specified file compression software.

    To the contrary, two forensic experts working with the CCP have completed over 1200 trials using all of the available compression algorithms with no success.

  58. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater June 3, 2013 at 11:09 am #

    Yoda: For many of us on the right side of this discussion the birthers’ dishonesty is the most troublesome aspect of birthers. For others it is the pure hatred of the President, for still others it is the abject stupidity. For me it is the pure laziness. For example, Hermy here persists in stating the EO myth. I have to assume that he never read it because it clearly does not say what he, or any of the birthers claim. I don’t expect birthers to believe me, or any of us, but 10 mins of reading primary sources will debunk a lot of birther myths.People cannot be blamed for their stupidity, but willful ignorance is a disgrace.

    He’s a liar because this has been pointed out to him before here and on Amazon. I thought doc banned this troll?

  59. avatar
    Thinker June 3, 2013 at 11:12 am #

    I see this hyperbole used a lot. I don’t believe it is correct. If something alleged to be a certified copy of birth certificate, written in crayon on toilet paper, were to be presented to some adjudicatory authority, I believe the authority could and would make a determination that no state would issue a birth certificate written in crayon on toilet paper and could and would declare that such a “birth certificate” is not prima facie evidence that the person whose name is written in crayon on the toilet paper was born under the circumstances listed on the toilet paper/crayon birth certificate.

    donna:
    had a certified birth certificate been released on toilet paper and in crayon it would still be “”prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding”

  60. avatar
    Hermitian June 3, 2013 at 11:13 am #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: How does Zullo’s claims matter?It’s another So What moment.Do any of those certificates contain foreign parents?No?Then what relevance does it have?

    Maybe hard evidence of the crime of forgery for which multiple criminal trials will soon be brought in multiple jurisdictions across the country?

    Evidence of forgery is always relevant.

  61. avatar
    JPotter June 3, 2013 at 11:19 am #

    Reality Check: Of course if Obama’s father were Japanese we wouldn’t have Birthers.

    I wish, RC. Obama’s father could have been a lily-white Canadian, we’d still have birfers. The prime mover behind the birfers is the little “(D)” next to Obama’s name. Wingnut Reds will use any smear, no matter how ridiculous, against a Dem.

    Of course, if Obama were half-Canadian or half-Japanese, birferism wouldn’t have sold quite as well, wouldn’t have had the automatic tie-in with this country’s favorite version of rascism. If the wingnuts have proven anything, it’s that they can ship up insane hatred against anybody.

  62. avatar
    Hermitian June 3, 2013 at 11:22 am #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: He’s a liar because this has been pointed out to him before here and on Amazon.I thought doc banned this troll?

    So I guess Nose Water must believe that Obama issued his executive order just so that he could release all of the presidential records for Reagan and Bush? Which he promptly did right after his 2009 inauguration.

    It figures that NW would believe that.

  63. avatar
    Hermitian June 3, 2013 at 12:01 pm #

    JPotter: I wish, RC. Obama’s father could have been a lily-white Canadian, we’d still have birfers. The prime mover behind the birfers is the little “(D)” next to Obama’s name. Wingnut Reds will use any smear, no matter how ridiculous, against a Dem.

    Of course, if Obama were half-Canadian or half-Japanese, birferism wouldn’t have sold quite as well, wouldn’t have had the automatic tie-in with this country’s favorite version of rascism. If the wingnuts have proven anything, it’s that they can ship up insane hatred against anybody.

    When Obots are desperate they always play the race card.

  64. avatar
    The Magic M June 3, 2013 at 12:12 pm #

    JPotter: Obama’s father could have been a lily-white Canadian, we’d still have birfers. The prime mover behind the birfers is the little “(D)” next to Obama’s name. Wingnut Reds will use any smear, no matter how ridiculous, against a Dem.

    But I think that if they had wanted that, they’d have invented similar claims against Clinton. I mean, what stopped them from claiming he was likely born in Canada when his pregnant mother was taking a walk across the border?

    No, I don’t think we’d have a birther issue if Obama’s father had been a white Englishman, but we’d still have it if he had been a brown-skinned Egyptian, Indonesian or a Chinese.

    Racism and fear of “the other” is the core of birtherism, not his party affiliation. On the contrary, I think it’s much more likely we’d have birthers in case of a black Republican President with two American parents than in case of a white Democratic President whose father just happened to come from Europe.
    The only thing that would be different is that we wouldn’t have Vattelists – but probably people claiming that some obscure provision from 1790 forever precludes black people from being Prez because “it was never repealed” and “I’m not racist, but it happens to be the law”.

  65. avatar
    Benji Franklin June 3, 2013 at 12:45 pm #

    Thinker: I believe the authority could and would make a determination that no state would issue a birth certificate written in crayon on toilet paper and could and would declare that such a “birth certificate” is not prima facie evidence that the person whose name is written in crayon on the toilet paper was born under the circumstances listed on the toilet paper/crayon birth certificate.

    But if the information crayoned on the toilet paper was accurate and subsequently OR previously confirmed by ANY legally sufficient means acceptable to the authority to whom it had been presented as evidence, there would have been no intent to defraud by the submission of the crayon version, it’s submission would have constituted no crime, and no right attendant to conditions satisfied by the nature of the truthful facts it conveyed, would be compromised. The President would not become ineligible or imprisonable, just because his eligibility had been attested to by him or persons representing his interests, in crayon.

  66. avatar
    sfjeff June 3, 2013 at 1:12 pm #

    The Magic M: But I think that if they had wanted that, they’d have invented similar claims against Clinton. I mean, what stopped them from claiming he was likely born in Canada when his pregnant mother was taking a walk across the border?

    I agree- I don’t think that all Birthers are conscious racists, but most of us can remember those scurrilous emails starting in 2007 that used code words for black and fanned muslim fear about Obama.

    If he had been Barry O’Bannon, and his father had been an Irish national, there would never have been Birthers. Mind you- I think the opponents would have started other rumors- lets not forget Vince Foster- but the rumors would have been different and not based upon race/origin/religion.

  67. avatar
    BillTheCat June 3, 2013 at 1:22 pm #

    Wait, did Herm just call John an “obot”? LOL delicious.

  68. avatar
    Andrew Morris June 3, 2013 at 1:34 pm #

    Writing from the frozen wastelands of Canada, what I find terrifying is that there are people with a decent education, often with professional qualifications, who actually believe the birther nonsense. And even more alarming is how they buy into the conspiracy stuff that, as has been pointed out here many times, requres you to believe that more than 50 years ago, Obama was being groomed for the presidency.

  69. avatar
    Hermitian June 3, 2013 at 2:02 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Actually Zullo has no instance of a change from African to Negro. And I have examples of “non standard” racial categories. So I have proof that they didn’t always standardize the race codes.

    It’s like trying to conform that “there are no black crows.” You can show two black crows, but all I have to do is show one white one, and I win.

    Didn’t you mean “there are no White Crows”?

    [Yes. Doc.]

  70. avatar
    Hermitian June 3, 2013 at 2:08 pm #

    Reality Check: John

    No the understanding is that Obama senior was an African Negro.

  71. avatar
    Hermitian June 3, 2013 at 2:11 pm #

    Andrew Morris: as has been pointed out here many times, requres you to believe that more than 50 years ago, Obama was being groomed for the presidency.

    Nope! He was being groomed to be a U.S. citizen.

  72. avatar
    Hermitian June 3, 2013 at 2:13 pm #

    BillTheCat:
    Wait, did Herm just call John an “obot”? LOL delicious.

    Oops! Sorry John…

  73. avatar
    JPotter June 3, 2013 at 2:25 pm #

    The Magic M: But I think that if they had wanted that, they’d have invented similar claims against Clinton.

    No, not at all, Magic M. Wingnuts take what they can find, and whip up smears from whatever they can get. Any germ of a story about the target, every detail about the person’s past, becomes smear fodder. Surely you recall them throwing everything and the kitchen sink at Clinton? They still do!

    By my comment I don’t mean we have birfers because Obama is a Democrat. They didn’t birf Clinton because … why would they? Obama is smeared because he is a Dem (and yes, there are nuts on the left that treat Reds the same way). I am rejecting RC’s ovely-optimistic claim that Obama is birf’d upon because his dad was African. Obama was birf’d upon because he is a Dem and had a foreign father, lived overseas as a child, and had spent time exploring his paternal roots overseas.

    The races, ethnicities, nationalities involved are not the prime cause of the birf. They shaped the birf and determine the specific memes the smears would take. That the man was African did tap into readymade cess pools of latent racism, and make it an easier sell.

  74. avatar
    misha marinsky June 3, 2013 at 3:14 pm #

    How did this used car salesman get to where he is?

    Randall Terry is a used car salesman, and he got to where he is by terrorizing people and clinics.

    I guess Zullo is trying to emulate Terry. Hey, it worked before. Notice the similarities:

    Lesson from Randall Terry: “Our goal must be simple. We must have a Christian nation built on God’s law, on the ten Commandments. No apologies.”

    “I don’t think Christians should use birth control. You consummate your marriage as often as you like – and if you have babies, you have babies.”

    “When I, or people like me, are running the country, you’d better flee, because we will find you, we will try you, and we’ll execute you. I mean every word of it. I will make it part of my mission to see to it that they are tried and executed.”

    “There is going to be war, and Christians may be called to take up the sword to overthrow the tyrannical regime that oppresses them.”

    http://adultthought.ucsd.edu/culture_war/the_american_taliban.html

  75. avatar
    misha marinsky June 3, 2013 at 3:19 pm #

    Andrew Morris: Writing from the frozen wastelands of Canada, what I find terrifying is that there are people with a decent education, often with professional qualifications, who actually believe the birther nonsense.

    America has always had a fundamentalist undercurrent. The GOP is now using it as their base – Reagan started it, and it has grown like weeds.

  76. avatar
    misha marinsky June 3, 2013 at 3:21 pm #

    The Magic M: The only thing that would be different is that we wouldn’t have Vattelists – but probably people claiming that some obscure provision from 1790 forever precludes black people from being Prez because “it was never repealed” and “I’m not racist, but it happens to be the law”.

    There are people currently that believe this. It’s more than “probably.”

  77. avatar
    Rickey June 3, 2013 at 3:23 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Actually Zullo has no instance of a change from African to Negro.

    And we don’t know when the changes were made, or who made them. Maybe the parents did it years after the birth. Heck, maybe Zullo did it.

  78. avatar
    Rickey June 3, 2013 at 3:33 pm #

    john:
    IMike Zullo said that even other sheriffs and investigations saw things and had ideas on the BC that lead to same conclusion – forgery.

    And how much experience does those sheriffs have with birth certificates? My guess would be no more than the average person, which is to say very little. How often and under what circumstances would a sheriff need to handle birth certificates?

    I once spent a couple of years processing annuity applications, and I have no doubt that in that time I handled more birth certificates than the average sheriff handles over the course of a entire career.

    Zullo has nothing, and he never will have anything except the cash which gullible birthers have been willing to send to him.

  79. avatar
    Joey June 3, 2013 at 4:34 pm #

    Reality Check:
    I understand what you are saying but the assumption that all Africans are “negroes” is rooted in racist thinking. Do you think this would be an issue if Obama’s father was Japanese in origin and the standard coding were “Oriental”? Nope not for a minute. Of course if Obama’s father were Japanese we wouldn’t have Birthers.

    I think it’s unintentional racism born out of ignorance. Zullo is ignorant of the fact that the term “Negro” is not universal and is not used in many other parts of the world,
    The appearance of the word “African” on the LFBC could simply have come from Stanley Ann Dunham telling a hospital clerk when asked about her husband’s race, “he’s African,” and the clerk writing down exactly what was said.
    If anyone were trying to perpetrate a fraud, would they want to draw special attention to the birth record?
    Because Hawaii is such a mixed race state, they have always allowed Hawaii residents to self-select racial descriptors.

  80. avatar
    Thomas Brown June 3, 2013 at 5:25 pm #

    It’s my understanding that even in 1961 the word “African” lacked the negative connotations that the word “Negro” had.

    I collect early American documents from the Jackson/VanBuren era… the banking crisis, the abolition and temperance movements, etc. Every slave auction notice I’ve ever run across said “Negros” were for sale. Through the JIm Crow era, I don’t recall hearing of signs that said “Africans go around back.”

    I’m just sayin’.

  81. avatar
    Hermitian June 3, 2013 at 6:46 pm #

    JPotter: Dr. Conspiracy:
    A normal listener believes that a narrative is supposed to make sense and to build a logical case. Using that bias, Zullo attempts to state the literal truth while making the listener hear something different. The listener assumes that Zullo is saying that if Obama Sr. had written “African” for his race, then the State of Hawaii would have crossed it out and written “negro.” He never says this that I noticed, and it would be nonsense if he did. Nevertheless, that’s what the normal listener hears, and there is a clear intent to mislead. That’s why I didn’t use the “lie” word, but rather “pull a fast one.”

    Thanks for the lengthy effort, Doc. It is frustrating to see misinformation being continuously re-peddled no matter how often refuted. Grifters gotta grift.

    Yes indeed ! — It is frustrating when Obots misinform the citizens.

    Source for race classifications applicable to Obama’s purported birth date.

    “VITAL STATISTICS OF

    “THE UNITED STATES

    “1960

    “VOLUME I-NATALITY”

    “SECTION 5. TECHNICAL APPENDIX

    “SOURCES OF DATA

    “The natality tabulations for 1960, with the exceptions
    noted in the next paragraph, are based on information from
    microfilm copies of the original certificates. These copies
    were received from the registration offices of all States,
    certain cities, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, and
    the Virgin Islands. The statistical information on lhese
    records was edited, classified, placed on punchcards, and
    tabulated in the National Vital Statistics Division.”

    ———————————————————————————-

    “Race and color

    “Births in the United States in 1960 are classified for
    vital statistics into white, Negro, American Indian, Chinese,
    Japanese, Aleut, Eskimo, Hawaiian and Part-Hawaiian
    (combined), and “other nonwhite.”

    “The category “white” includes, in addition to persons
    reported as “white” those reported as Mexican or Puerto
    Rican. With one exception, a reported mixture of Negro with
    any other race is included in the Negro group; other mixed
    parentage is classified according to the race of the nonwhite
    parent and mixtures of nonwhite races to the race of the
    father.

    The exception refers to a mixture of Hawaiian and
    any other race, which is classified as Part-Hawaiian.
    In most tables less detailed classifications are used-
    “white,” “Negro,” and “other” or just “white” and
    “nonwhite.”“

    ————————————————————————————–

    See also:

    1The complete rules followed in the classification of geo-
    graphic and personal items for births and deaths are set forth
    in Vital Statistics Instruction Manual, Part II, Section B,
    “Coding and Punching Geographic and Personal Particulars-
    Births, Deaths, and Fetal Deaths Occurring in 1960, National
    office of Vital Statistics, Washington, 1960.

    Zullo rocks !!!

  82. avatar
    richCares June 3, 2013 at 6:54 pm #

    In the summer session at University of Hawaii I met an African exchange student (from Kenya), when someone referred to him as a Negro, he got upset and said “Negro is a negative American term, I am not a Negro, I am African”. He was married to a white woman who was pregnant and due very soon. That was August of 1961, who could that have been? In any event, my daughter’s birth certificate shows race as one parent Japanese, the other as Polish. My wife is Japanese, my parents came from Poland. Neither is a race. Anyone from Hawaii has similar BC’s

  83. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 3, 2013 at 6:57 pm #

    This is a good example of birther bias making them misread text. Look on a Hawaiian birth certificate. Where’s the child’s race? It’s not there. That’s because the child’s race is a statistical classification, not something reported with the birth. And indeed the categories you listed are what births are classified as.

    Fine, but the question Zullo raises is not about a birth, but a parent. Parents’ race is reported by the parent and it is what they say it is, as I proved by the graphic included with this article.

    When a birther reads that text they see “race in the United States is recorded” rather than “births are classified.”

    And I should point out that ALL of your so-called revelation was posted and discussed on this blog years ago. Zullo is monumentally incompetent, and only a fool would trust him.

    Hermitian: “Race and color

    “Births in the United States in 1960 are classified for
    vital statistics into white, Negro, American Indian, Chinese,
    Japanese, Aleut, Eskimo, Hawaiian and Part-Hawaiian
    (combined), and “other nonwhite.”

  84. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 3, 2013 at 7:03 pm #

    Hermitian: Zullo rocks !!!

    Zullo has rocks in his head.

  85. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 3, 2013 at 7:07 pm #

    When he dealer is a racist, you pretty much have to play the race card.

    Hermitian: When Obots are desperate they always play the race card.

  86. avatar
    Yoda June 3, 2013 at 7:08 pm #

    Hermitian: Yes indeed ! — It is frustrating when Obots misinform the citizens.

    Source for race classifications applicable to Obama’s purported birth date.

    “VITALSTATISTICSOF

    “THEUNITEDSTATES

    “1960

    “VOLUMEI-NATALITY”

    “SECTION5.TECHNICALAPPENDIX

    “SOURCESOFDATA

    “The natalitytabulationsfor1960,withtheexceptions
    notedinthenextparagraph,arebasedon informationfrom
    microfilmcopiesoftheoriginalcertificates.Thesecopies
    werereceivedfromtheregistrationofficesofallStates,
    certaincities,theDistrictofColumbia,PuertoRico,and
    theVirginIslands.Thestatisticalinformationonlhese
    recordswasedited,classified,placedonpunchcards,and
    tabulatedintheNationalVitalStatisticsDivision.”

    ———————————————————————————-

    “Raceandcolor

    “BirthsintheUnitedStatesin1960areclassifiedfor
    vitalstatisticsintowhite,Negro,AmericanIndian, Chinese,
    Japanese,Aleut,Eskimo,HawaiianandPart-Hawaiian
    (combined),and“othernonwhite.”

    “Thecategory “white”includes,inadditionto persons
    reportedas“white”thosereportedasMexicanorPuerto
    Rican.With oneexception,areportedmixtureof Negrowith
    anyotherraceisincludedintheNegrogroup;othermixed
    parentageisclassifiedaccordingtotheraceof thenonwhite
    parentandmixturesofnonwhiteracestotheraceofthe
    father.

    TheexceptionreferstoamixtureofHawaiianand
    anyotherrace,whichisclassifiedasPart-Hawaiian.
    Inmosttableslessdetailedclassificationsareused-
    “white,”“Negro,”and“other”orjust“white”and
    “nonwhite.”“

    ————————————————————————————–

    See also:

    1The complete rules followed in the classification of geo-
    graphic and personal items for births and deaths are set forth
    in Vital Statistics Instruction Manual, Part II, Section B,
    “Coding and Punching Geographic and Personal Particulars-
    Births, Deaths, and Fetal Deaths Occurring in 1960, National
    office of Vital Statistics, Washington, 1960.

    Zullo rocks !!!

    Do you have access to Zullo? Zullo will not answer real questions, at least not in a meaningful way. If I put together a list of questions could you get them answered?

  87. avatar
    Thinker June 3, 2013 at 7:18 pm #

    Ha! Thank you for responding to my post about how birfer analyses of the pdf will never, ever convince a court to question whether Barack Obama was born in Hawaii by providing more useless analysis of the pdf. You are a very good example of the birfer mindset.

    Hermitian: Hey Dude! — you Obots were the only ones pushing the file compression ruse.Of course none of you has demonstrated how the nine layers within the WH LFCOLB PDF image were created using specified file compression software.

    To the contrary, two forensic experts working with the CCP have completed over 1200 trials using all of the available compression algorithms with no success.

  88. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 3, 2013 at 7:30 pm #

    Read this sentence really slowly so you understand the concepts:

    The 1960-1961 codes manual has the codes for 1960 and 1961 in it.

    There aren’t different codes for 1961 because the manual covers both years.
    The 1960 Vital Statistics of the United States manual is here:

    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsus/nat60_1.pdf

    One need only look at the manual linked above that you yourself mentioned, to prove that the codes Zullo presented in his earlier press conference were bogus. In fact we need look only at your own comment to prove Zullo a liar, where you say:

    “Births in the United States in 1960 are classified for vital statistics into white, Negro, American Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Aleut, Eskimo, Hawaiian and Part-Hawaiian (combined), and “other nonwhite.”

    Go back and look at Zullo’s slide. The values in his fake manual are:

    White
    Negro
    Indian (includes Aleuts and Eskimos)
    Chinese
    Japanese
    Hawaiian (includes part-Hawaiian)
    Other Nonwhite

    Zullo’s 1968 codes combined Indian, Aleut and Eskimo under one category. In 1960-1961 they were separate categories.

    You had the proof that Zullo lied in your hands, and you couldn’t even see it. You’re a fool to defend Zullo.

    Hermitian: Yes indeed ! — It is frustrating when Obots misinform the citizens.

    Source for race classifications applicable to Obama’s purported birth date.

    “VITALSTATISTICSOF

    “THEUNITEDSTATES

    “1960

    “VOLUMEI-NATALITY”

    “SECTION5.TECHNICALAPPENDIX

    “SOURCESOFDATA

    “The natalitytabulationsfor1960,withtheexceptions
    notedinthenextparagraph,arebasedon informationfrom
    microfilmcopiesoftheoriginalcertificates.Thesecopies
    werereceivedfromtheregistrationofficesofallStates,
    certaincities,theDistrictofColumbia,PuertoRico,and
    theVirginIslands.Thestatisticalinformationonlhese
    recordswasedited,classified,placedonpunchcards,and
    tabulatedintheNationalVitalStatisticsDivision.”

    ———————————————————————————-

    “Raceandcolor

    “BirthsintheUnitedStatesin1960areclassifiedfor
    vitalstatisticsintowhite,Negro,AmericanIndian, Chinese,
    Japanese,Aleut,Eskimo,HawaiianandPart-Hawaiian
    (combined),and“othernonwhite.”

    “Thecategory “white”includes,inadditionto persons
    reportedas“white”thosereportedasMexicanorPuerto
    Rican.With oneexception,areportedmixtureof Negrowith
    anyotherraceisincludedintheNegrogroup;othermixed
    parentageisclassifiedaccordingtotheraceof thenonwhite
    parentandmixturesofnonwhiteracestotheraceofthe
    father.

    TheexceptionreferstoamixtureofHawaiianand
    anyotherrace,whichisclassifiedasPart-Hawaiian.
    Inmosttableslessdetailedclassificationsareused-
    “white,”“Negro,”and“other”orjust“white”and
    “nonwhite.”“

    ————————————————————————————–

    See also:

    1The complete rules followed in the classification of geo-
    graphic and personal items for births and deaths are set forth
    in Vital Statistics Instruction Manual, Part II, Section B,
    “Coding and Punching Geographic and Personal Particulars-
    Births, Deaths, and Fetal Deaths Occurring in 1960, National
    office of Vital Statistics, Washington, 1960.

    Zullo rocks !!!

  89. avatar
    Yoda June 3, 2013 at 7:39 pm #

    Yo birthers:

    http://howlonghasobamabeenpresident.com/

    Any day now

  90. avatar
    Semolina June 3, 2013 at 7:51 pm #

    You are 100% correct about it no being a simple matter to change a signed birth certificate–even hours after it was signed. I was born in the late 60s, and my parents had agreed to name me Christina after an aunt. My mother (who has mental problems) completed the birth certificate at the hospital the morning after I was born and wrote or dictated “Christine” instead of Christina.

    My dad arrived to visit after he finished work and tried to change it when he found out, but they said it was too late and he would have to go to court if he wanted to change my name. Needless to say, I grew up as Christine.

  91. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 3, 2013 at 7:55 pm #

    Given that Zullo has lied many times, nothing he says is credible.

    Hermitian: To the contrary, two forensic experts working with the CCP have completed over 1200 trials using all of the available compression algorithms with no success.

  92. avatar
    nbc June 3, 2013 at 8:07 pm #

    Hermitian: To the contrary, two forensic experts working with the CCP have completed over 1200 trials using all of the available compression algorithms with no success.

    That’s not a lot given the amount of variables…

    So what was tried exactly? I bet they forgot the most obvious one

  93. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater June 3, 2013 at 8:19 pm #

    Hermitian: To the contrary, two forensic experts working with the CCP have completed over 1200 trials using all of the available compression algorithms with no success.

    This is a lie. Garrett Pappit isn’t a forensic expert neither was the other guy they mentioned for a second and then buried his report. You do know there are hundreds of thousands of algorithms for mixed raster compression?

  94. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 3, 2013 at 8:24 pm #

    Hermitian: To the contrary, two forensic experts working with the CCP have completed over 1200 trials using all of the available compression algorithms with no success.

    How do you know this?

  95. avatar
    Mary June 3, 2013 at 8:36 pm #

    Thanks for a really good analysis, Dr. C!

  96. avatar
    ZixiOfIx June 3, 2013 at 8:38 pm #

    john:
    Anyway, why wouldn’t a black person from US say he was African – Isn’t that where they ultimately came from?

    That would be like me putting Scotland or England on a form, since that’s where the last of my “not American” ancestors hailed from a few hundred years ago, before the United States existed.

    Really though, using your brand of “logic”, why wouldn’t we all put “East African” on all our forms, since that’s where we all ultimately came from? Mitochondrial Eve, and all that.

  97. avatar
    Hermitian June 3, 2013 at 8:40 pm #

    Yoda: Do you have access to Zullo? Zullo will not answer real questions, at least not in a meaningful way. If I put together a list of questions could you get them answered?

    Carl Gallups is fielding questions for Zullo. You would have to pretend to be a listener to the PPSimmons broadcasts. Or you could always call in during a live broadcast. However, you could ask only one question. There’s no guarantee that written questions would get through to Zullo.

  98. avatar
    Hermitian June 3, 2013 at 9:09 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: You do know there are hundreds of thousands of algorithms for mixed raster compression?

    Name one that produces one eight-Bit color layer and eight 1-Bit monochrome (non-Black) layers from a single color scan of a color printout of the WH LFCOLB PDF image.

    The one 8-Bit color layer is linked into the PDF as an embedded image.

    The eight 1-Bit monochrome layers are also linked into the PDF as embedded bitmap layers.

    These nine layers would have been created using FILE/PLACE onto a blank artboard in Adobe Illustrator followed by Embed.

    Good Luck !!!

  99. avatar
    ASK Esq June 3, 2013 at 9:29 pm #

    Hermitian: Nope! He was being groomed to be a U.S. citizen.

    If that’s all they wanted, and there is no reason to assume his parents and/or grandparents wanted to preserve his eligibility to serve as President, then, had he been born outside the US, it would have been a simple matter to naturalize him. No convoluted and illegal scheming necessary.

  100. avatar
    Arthur June 3, 2013 at 9:31 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: You had the proof that Zullo lied in your hands, and you couldn’t even see it. You’re a fool to defend Zullo.

    This could be adapted to make a general axiom: “You, [Insert Birther Name], had the proof that [Insert Birther Leader] lied in your hands, and you couldn’t even see it. You’re a fool to defend [Insert Birther Leader].”

  101. avatar
    Monkey Boy June 3, 2013 at 9:33 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:

    …. Zullo is monumentally incompetent, and only a fool would trust him.

    And Hermy is?

  102. avatar
    William Rawle June 3, 2013 at 9:37 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Given that Zullo has lied many times, nothing he says is credible.

    This was my favorite failure from Saturday’s disaster.

    Approximate transcript starting 16:55 of this youtube (ORYR edited the first 35 minutes of junk) video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUJOSNZpZEU&feature=player_embedded

    ==============================================================

    Narrator: There is one thing of which we are very certain; the forger obviously had no experience using a typewriter perhaps because of their age. They did not understand the concept of a left margin, did not grasp the concept of setting up tabs, did not understand that as a mechanical device a typewriter would have fixed spacing, they furthermore did not understand that typewriters in 1961 would have had only one letter style. They also seemed ignorant of the fact that typewriters contained unique identifiable characteristics and that mixing letters originally typed on different typewriters would be readily detected.

    Narrator: Compare the left margin of Barack Obama’s Long Form Birth Certificate with three others from 1961 and one from 1962. (pause)

    Zullo: (unintelligible garble)

    Narrator: You’ll undoubtedly notice that …(pause)

    Zullo: What I’m afraid of is this is being recorded and this is also being live streamed and I don’t want cameras in here trying to get the identification on the persons on these birth certificates. This will be the last time he’ll have to do this.

    Narrator: …unlike Obama’s long form birth certificate, the others show obvious signs of tabs being set up.

    Zullo: For those of you who couldn’t see, what it is that the tabs are set up and they are left to right justified with a typewriter and on Obama’s it is like a zigzag snake. That is not the characteristic we have seen with dozens of BC that we’ve examined from the state of Hawaii in varying years from 1955, before it was even a state, to present time. The tabs were all opened up. So whoever placed this information on this certificate didn’t have this concept. And you know it..it it is one of these things that’s going to be very difficult for somebody to explain. The thing that they will use to try and get away from all this is nothing more than just the element of doubt. They’ll just try to create doubt to explain it away. So what we have done is we’ve collected I think we got almost 20 or 25 birth certificates that are all left and right justified perfectly and that’s the way they are suppose to be. So this is just another element to this. And this is almost like building a circumstantial case in a way. You do it for lack of better way to say it layer on layer, you just start building layer upon layer (unintelligible).

    Narrator: Here are just a few examples of letters found in different shapes and sizes on Barack Obama’s long form birth certificate. If the document were typed with a single typewriter as it should have been, this would be impossible.

    ================================================================

    So I sent Mark Gillar (the narrator of the video) an e-mail point out that the Nordykes’, the woman born on August 24th, 1961 and a WND published 1959 Hawaiian BC, all have “zigzagging” left margins and that the Edith Coats BC has kerning. We’ll see if he responds.

    What’s amazing of course is that Zullo says he has 20 to 25 Hawaiian birth certificates all perfectly justified but he obviously doesn’t have these certificates. Which have been published on the internet for a very long time.

    How could they have missed them? You don’t have to answer that.

    Are they really just that stupid and incompetent? You don’t have to answer that either.

    BTW, I would not be surprised if the answer I get is that these birth certificates must be forgeries. LOL

  103. avatar
    JD Reed June 3, 2013 at 9:39 pm #

    Hermitian: No I am saying that the prevailing Federal Law in 1961 required the state of Hawaii to provide microfilm copies of all the live births in the State of Hawaii.Therefore the Federal Government should have in its possession said microfilm reel containing the exact negative film image of Obama’s purported Hawaii birth certificate.

    This raises the following interesting question:

    Has Obama ordered this record to be sealed under the authority of his own 2009 executive order?

    Hermsey, you’re just being flatly dishonest here. Anyone can read the 2009 exec order by googling “Obama” “executive orders” “Federal Register.” Because the online version of executive orders dating back to FDR are in the online Federal Register. Now google “Reagan” “executive orders” “Federal Register”, and note how similar Reagan’s last and Obama’s first are.

    They’re more than 95 percent identical in text; they’re identical in form. The only difference is one or the other contains occasional explanatory language that the other does not. Both state that they foillow the meaning of presidential records defined in the Presidential Records Act of, I believe, 1978. The only records covered are the official acts of each presidential administration; personal records of a president are nowhere included in the definition.

    Do you have the stones to look up Obama’s executive order, and the Presidential Records Act, and report back the specific language that you contend covers the personal records of a president?

  104. avatar
    Monkey Boy June 3, 2013 at 9:45 pm #

    JD Reed: Hermsey, you’re just being flatly dishonest here. ….

    Surprised? Lying is the birther stock-in-trade.

  105. avatar
    Hermitian June 3, 2013 at 9:59 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Read this sentence really slowly so you understand the concepts:

    The 1960-1961 codes manual has the codes for 1960 and 1961 in it.

    There aren’t different codes for 1961 because the manual covers both years.

    Read the following sentences really slowly so you understand the concepts.

    Your FOIA 11-00673 punch card instruction copy is not the official NCHS coding manual for either 1960 or 1961.

    Instead it is simply a one-off key punch operator instruction manual which defines the format of the digital tape for some unknown NCHS data set.

    We know that the 1961 coding manual was unpublished. It is therefore very likely that the 1960 manual was also unpublished. Most likely a limited number of each manual was printed and distributed to the Vital Statistics Offices of each of the States.

    However the 1960 and 1961 coding manuals are referenced in the respective VSUS reports for years 1960 and 1961. There is a separate VSUS report for each year.

    The references from each report are as follows (one from each VSUS report)

    “1The complete rules followed in the classification of geo-
    graphic and personal items for births and deaths are set forth
    in Vital Statistics Instruction Manual, Part II, Section B,
    “Coding and Punching Geographic and Personal Particulars-
    Births, Deaths, and Fetal Deaths Occurring in 1960, National
    office of Vital Statistics, Washington, 1960.”

    1 The complete rules followed in the classification of geo-
    graphic and personal items for births are set forth in the
    unpublished instruction manual “Coding and Punching Geo-
    graphic and Personal Particulars for Births Occurring in 1961,”
    1961.

    I prefer to give Zullo the benefit of the doubt because he is a law man. What he might have presented one year ago is (in my opinion) irrelevant. What is relevant is the actual evidence that he presented in the break-out session on Jun 1.

    Do you really believe that Zullo would lie about his evidence to a room full of retired and active law enforcement professionals?

  106. avatar
    Joey June 3, 2013 at 10:10 pm #

    JD Reed: Hermsey, you’re just being flatly dishonest here. Anyone can read the 2009 exec order by googling “Obama” “executive orders” “Federal Register.” Because the online version of executive orders dating back to FDR are in the online Federal Register. Now google “Reagan” “executive orders” “Federal Register”, and note how similar Reagan’s last and Obama’s first are.

    They’re more than 95 percent identical in text;they’re identical in form. The only difference is one or the other containsoccasional explanatory language that the other does not. Both state that they foillow themeaning of presidential records defined in the Presidential Records Act of, I believe, 1978. The only records covered are the official acts of each presidential administration; personal records of a president are nowhere included in the definition.

    Do you have the stones to look up Obama’s executive order, and the Presidential Records Act, and report back the specific language that you contend covers the personal records of a president?

    JD, you may now remove your foot from Hermitian’s anus.

  107. avatar
    nbc June 3, 2013 at 10:32 pm #

    JD Reed: Has Obama ordered this record to be sealed under the authority of his own 2009 executive order?

    Why seal something that under privacy laws has long since been destroyed? The copy was only to be used for statistical purposes. Surely you did not miss my references to this?

    Poor Hermitian, all speculation and nothing to show for it.

    He does so hate facts…

  108. avatar
    The Magic M June 4, 2013 at 6:17 am #

    Hermitian: I prefer to give Zullo the benefit of the doubt because he is a law man.

    Not anymore since he lied and distorted the truth too often to be “trusted on his word”.

    Hermitian: What he might have presented one year ago is (in my opinion) irrelevant. What is relevant is the actual evidence that he presented in the break-out session on Jun 1.

    So you think a “law man” would make false assertions (based on the wrong manual) in a press conference and then not publically retract those statements, stating he was wrong back then but has corrected the mistake?
    Would that not be expected from real law enforcement?

    Would you expect a real LEO to publically state “according to our evidence, the victim was shot twice in the back” and then just quietly change that to “… was stabbed four times in the chest” months later?

    Hermitian:
    Do you really believe that Zullo would lie about his evidence to a room full of retired and active law enforcement professionals?

    Yes. Because lying in such a forum is no more illegal than lying on WND or on Speaker’s Corner or in a private conversation.

    But explain to me why Zullo doesn’t appear as a witness in court cases if this issue is allegedly so important to him. Because lying in court would be a different story altogether.

  109. avatar
    bovril June 4, 2013 at 7:12 am #

    Oh and Hermie dear, do remember that Monkey Boy Zullo is NOT a “law man” he’s a volunteer, unaccredited, unskilled member of the public with a pretend plastic badge that has no significance in the real world..

    In point of fact, it is arguable that he is breaking the law as he is pimping his libelous, slanderous garbage under color of law.

  110. avatar
    Majority Will June 4, 2013 at 7:32 am #

    bovril:
    Oh and Hermie dear, do remember that Monkey Boy Zullo is NOT a “law man” he’s a volunteer, unaccredited, unskilled member of the public with a pretend plastic badge that has no significance in the real world..

    In point of fact, it is arguable that he is breaking the law as he is pimping his libelous, slanderous garbage under color of law.

    That makes Zullo a gen-u-wine birther bigot hero.

  111. avatar
    Thinker June 4, 2013 at 7:49 am #

    Mike Zullo is not a law man. He is a volunteer for a public charity 501(c)(3) called the Maracopa (sic) County Sheriffs Cold Case Posse Inc., classified as “Educational Services and Schools”

    Hermitian:
    I prefer to give Zullo the benefit of the doubt because he is a law man.

  112. avatar
    Hermitian June 4, 2013 at 8:31 am #

    Those of you who still cling to the file compression ruse should read the following report by Mara Zebest.

    REPORT 3
    BARACK OBAMA: LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE:
    Bitmap Layer and Color Attributes
    by Mara Zebest

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/100338183/NEW-Barack-Obama-s-Forged-LFBC-Report-By-Mara-Zebest-July-18th-2012

    “Dr Kenneth Noisewater: You do know there are hundreds of thousands of algorithms for mixed raster compression?”

    If there really are “hundreds of thousands”, Oh Obot Nose Water, then you had better get busy looking for that one “magic bullet”.

    Time is running out and

    you have nothing !!!

  113. avatar
    G June 4, 2013 at 8:56 am #

    Yep. That’s about it.

    Thinker:
    Mike Zullo is not a law man. He is a volunteer for a public charity 501(c)(3) called the Maracopa (sic) County Sheriffs Cold Case Posse Inc., classified as “Educational Services and Schools”

  114. avatar
    Keith June 4, 2013 at 9:08 am #

    Hermitian: “Race and color

    “Births in the United States in 1960 are classified for
    vital statistics into white, Negro, American Indian, Chinese,
    Japanese, Aleut, Eskimo, Hawaiian and Part-Hawaiian
    (combined), and “other nonwhite.”

    Question for you Hermie…

    What EXACTLY are these codes used for?

    1) the Father?
    2) the Mother?
    3) the Child?

    What EXACTLY is the word ‘AFRICAN’ on Obama’s BC describing?

    1) the Father?
    2) the Mother?
    3) the Child?

    Contemplate that answer for awhile and then rethink your entire thesis.

    (For any brain-damaged readers, and I’m sure Hermie is not one of those, I’ll supply the answer: For the first question, the answer is (3) the Child; and the second question is (1) the Father).

    Remember Hermie, the Feds didn’t give a fig about the parents, they only wanted to know about the child. On the other hand, Hawai’i recorded the race of the parents, not the child. So the Feds ‘computed’ the race of the child according to the race of the parents. There was no restriction on what the parents considered themselves to be associated with, but the Feds only had so many categories they were interested in.

  115. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 4, 2013 at 10:09 am #

    All the states did the same thing, recording the reported race of the parents. The race of the child is not a fact but a category derived from facts–what the parent says they are.

    Keith: Remember Hermie, the Feds didn’t give a fig about the parents, they only wanted to know about the child. On the other hand, Hawai’i recorded the race of the parents, not the child

  116. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 4, 2013 at 10:16 am #

    I would prefer to give Barack Obama the benefit of the doubt because he was a U. S. Senator and now the President of the United States, but your birthers have never granted respect to the office. Why a used car salesman who used to be a small-town policeman derive infinitely more respect than the President?

    Zullo lied a year ago, and you brush that aside as irrelevant. He has repeatedly shown faked or misinterpreted evidence, but you want to brush that aside as irrelevant. Rather you give great credibility to a private talk he gave that you have not even seen. Your blind faith is to be pitied.

    Given that I have shown in this article that Zullo tried to mislead the sheriffs in the public session, why should any sane person believe that he would not try to mislead them the next day in the private session.

    What is hard to believe is that you seriously believe this con man. I buggers the imagination.

    Hermitian: I prefer to give Zullo the benefit of the doubt because he is a law man. What he might have presented one year ago is (in my opinion) irrelevant. What is relevant is the actual evidence that he presented in the break-out session on Jun 1.

    Do you really believe that Zullo would lie about his evidence to a room full of retired and active law enforcement professionals?

  117. avatar
    Daniel June 4, 2013 at 10:16 am #

    Hermitian:
    Those of you who still cling to the file compression ruse should read the following report by Mara Zebest.

    I havn’t read anything by Mara Zebest on ion propulsion systems for interplanetary spaceflight either. I’m sure Mara is just as much an expert in astrophysics as document forensics.

    Why would I care?

  118. avatar
    Daniel June 4, 2013 at 10:19 am #

    Hermitian:

    Time is running out and

    you have nothing !!!

    Time has been “running out” for almost 5 years now. Your threats just don’t seem to have much urgency.

    We don’t need anything. We have a twice elected President with an iron-clad record of birth.

    You’re the people making the spurious claims, you’re the ones with the burden of proof, and over 200 failures in court to back it up.

    Sorry, just not very concerned here…

  119. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 4, 2013 at 10:23 am #

    Time for what?

    Time ran out for the birthers, arguably, in January 20 of this year. Barack Obama, in his book Dreams from My Father provides a good metaphor for the birthers:

    I watched the man set the [chicken] down, pinning it gently under one knee and pulling its neck out across a narrow gutter. For a moment the bird struggled, beating its wings hard against the ground, a few feathers dancing up with the wind. Then it grew completely still. The man pulled the blade across the bird’s neck in a single smooth motion. Blood shot out in a long, crimson ribbon. The man stood up, holding the bird far away from his body, and suddenly tossed it high into the air. It landed with a thud, then struggled to its feet, its head lolling grotesquely against its side, its legs pumping wildly in a wide, wobbly circle. I watched as the circle grew smaller, the blood trickling down to a gurgle, until finally the bird collapsed, lifeless on the grass.

    Hermitian: Time is running out and

  120. avatar
    Daniel June 4, 2013 at 10:23 am #

    Hermitian:

    Do you really believe that Zullo would lie about his evidence to a room full of retired and active law enforcement professionals?

    Birthers lie.

    It’s just the natural state of a nutbag conspiracy theory that is built of false witness and manufactured “evidence”. Those who promote a lie are liars.

    So yes, I really do think Zullo would lie about his evidence to anyone who would listen. If Zullo wasn’t a liar, he wouldn’t be a birther. Simple as that.

  121. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 4, 2013 at 10:30 am #

    Zebest has no credentials in image compression at all. Why should anyone bother with her report? Real experts say the document is normal.

    Hermitian: Those of you who still cling to the file compression ruse should read the following report by Mara Zebest.

  122. avatar
    Thomas Brown June 4, 2013 at 10:38 am #

    Daniel: Hermitian:

    Do you really believe that Zullo would lie about his evidence to a room full of retired and active law enforcement professionals?

    Birthers lie.

    …and it’s real easy when it’s lies HIS AUDIENCE WANTS TO HEAR.

  123. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater June 4, 2013 at 10:50 am #

    Hermitian: “Dr Kenneth Noisewater: You do know there are hundreds of thousands of algorithms for mixed raster compression?”
    If there really are “hundreds of thousands”, Oh Obot Nose Water, then you had better get busy looking for that one “magic bullet”.
    Time is running out and
    you have nothing !!!

    Why would I have to look for that one magic bullet when Hawaii has already verified the contents of the document Mr Blake. Why do you continue to be such a dishonest troll. Mara Zebest an expert? This coming from the same person who couldn’t get a PC to run during her press conference. Zebest also made stupid claims about the war room picture claiming it had to be photoshopped because she didn’t understand perspectives of where people were sitting in the photo.

  124. avatar
    William Rawle June 4, 2013 at 11:12 am #

    Hermitian: Do you really believe that Zullo would lie about his evidence to a room full of retired and active law enforcement professionals?

    During the presentation to the “room full of retired and active law enforcement professionals” Zullo made the following statement:

    “For those of you who couldn’t see, what it is that the tabs are set up and they are left to right justified with a typewriter and on Obama’s it is like a zigzag snake. That is not the characteristic we have seen with dozens of birth certificates that we’ve examined from the state of Hawaii in varying years from 1955, before it was even a state, to present time. The tabs were all opened up. So whoever placed this information on this certificate didn’t have this concept. And you know it..it it is one of these things that’s going to be very difficult for somebody to explain. The thing that they will use to try and get away from all this is nothing more than just the element of doubt. They’ll just try to create doubt to explain it away. So what we have done is we’ve collected, I think we got almost 20 or 25 birth certificates that are all left and right justified perfectly and that’s the way they are suppose to be.”

    Is this the truth?

    On all Hawaiian birth certificates does the typewritten entries line up along the left margins like the Edith Coats birth certificate? Or do they zigzag like a snake, like President Obama’s birth certificate and like the Nordyke sisters’ birth certificates?

  125. avatar
    Bovril June 4, 2013 at 11:19 am #

    Now Hermie dear

    Still waiting for your acknowledgement that Zullo is not actually a “law man”

    Whilst waiting on that, do tell, the Constitutionally sufficient custodian of records at the HDoH has, on multiple occasions confirmed that the data on the BC’s, derived from the records of the HDoH are wholly correct and accurate.

    In which case EXACTLY what is it that is your problem?

    The records gave been stated and confirmed as accurate
    The data on the BC has been confirmed in the legal manner and format as matching the data on record
    The records state the President was born in Hawai’i
    The President is over 35 years of age
    The President has no record of ever relinquishing his US citizenship
    The President has been a resident of the USA, both consecutively and accumulatively for more than 14 years
    The President recently won the majority of the Electoral (and popular) vote
    The Presidents EC votes were counted and affirmed as accurate by Senate and Congress
    No objection from either Senate or Congress were raised about the EC vote or the count
    No objections were raised from either Senate or Congress on the validity of the vote
    The President has been sworn in

    So, EXACTLY what is the problem?

  126. avatar
    Majority Will June 4, 2013 at 11:25 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Time for what?

    Time ran out for the birthers, arguably, in January 20 of this year. Barack Obama, in his book Dreams from My Father provides a good metaphor for the birthers:

    I watched the man set the [chicken] down, pinning it gently under one knee and pulling its neck out across a narrow gutter. For a moment the bird struggled, beating its wings hard against the ground, a few feathers dancing up with the wind. Then it grew completely still. The man pulled the blade across the bird’s neck in a single smooth motion. Blood shot out in a long, crimson ribbon. The man stood up, holding the bird far away from his body, and suddenly tossed it high into the air. It landed with a thud, then struggled to its feet, its head lolling grotesquely against its side, its legs pumping wildly in a wide, wobbly circle. I watched as the circle grew smaller, the blood trickling down to a gurgle, until finally the bird collapsed, lifeless on the grass.

    Black Knight: “It’s just a flesh wound.”

  127. avatar
    Majority Will June 4, 2013 at 11:28 am #

    Bovril: So, EXACTLY what is the problem?

    According to a birther bigot troll on another thread, the perceived appearance of a smiley face in a signature invalidates birth certificates.

    And they STILL can’t figure out why they’re mocked and derided.

  128. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 4, 2013 at 11:48 am #

    Hermitian: Dr Kenneth Noisewater: You do know there are hundreds of thousands of algorithms for mixed raster compression?

    Name one that produces one eight-Bit color layer and eight 1-Bit monochrome (non-Black) layers

    Here’s a patent for one:

    http://www.google.co.in/patents/US7376272

    Some choice bits from the patent application:

    MRC (Mixed Raster Content) is a powerful image representation concept in achieving high compression ratios while maintaining high reconstructed image quality. MRC has also been established as a compression standard. Within MRC, a basic three-layer model (contone foreground, contone background, and binary mask) is the most common representation form. It represents a color raster image using a background layer and a mask and foreground layer pair. The foreground and background layers are normally contone bitmaps, while the mask is usually binary. The Mask layer describes how to reconstruct the final images from the other two layers. When the Mask layer pixel value is 1, the corresponding pixel from the Foreground layer is selected for the final image; when it is 0, the corresponding pixel from the Background layer is selected.

    However, MRC has the disadvantage that the resulting files, when coded in PDF, may not be able to be printed on some Postscript and PDF printers. This problem can be avoided if the foreground layer is not represented in contone form. As a result, MRC with constant foreground layers has been introduced to deal with the problem. This model contains one background layer, N foreground layers and N mask layers, where N is a non-negative integer. While the background layer can be a contone bitmap, the foreground layers are restricted to be constant colors. Although constructing this model is computationally more difficult than constructing a three-layer model, the resulting PDF file appears to be printable by all Postscript printers.

    The first paragraph describes the most common form of MRC, which is what Mara described in her paper. The second tells us that there are problems printing that type of MRC (which may also be responsible for the error she described), and describes a method of using multiple individual 1-bit monochrome layers instead. This method does not cause the problems that using an 8-bit color foreground (more specifically, contone*) does. So that gives us one 8-bit color background layer and N 1-bit monochrome layers.

    12. The method of claim 1, wherein the number of clusters is limited to a predefined number of clusters.

    The patent allows N to be predefined, so a logical number for N is eight (due to the nature of digital data). This could be hard-coded, or it could be set in the algorithm based on the number of detectable color clusters (so the algorithm could determine whether to use 1, 2, 4, 8, or 16 layers – more than that would probably be the point of diminishing returns).

    Of course, this is all moot, since Hawai’i has certified that the information in the PDF is accurate.

    *Just to be clear, contone means a non-monochrome image – it includes greyscale, 8-bit, and 32-bit color images

  129. avatar
    sfjeff June 4, 2013 at 12:04 pm #

    See, I frankly don’t get all the compression stuff. I don’t even pretend to try to understand it. I won’t even pretend to care about it.

    Because the ‘compression’ crap is totally immaterial.

    Maybe if all we had was the online version of the 2007 birth certificate and nothing else.

    But since 2008, the State of Hawaii has consistantly and repeatedly stated that they have the original birth certificate for Barack Obama on file and that he was born in Hawaii.

    No Birther has come up with any rational argument to refute this black and white (no pun intended) confirmation from Hawaii.

    And unless and until someone comes up with something that refutes the clear and unequivocal statements of the State of Hawaii, then Birthers can all dance on a pin as much as they want, because the only authority that matters in the United States in this situation says Barack Obama was born here.

  130. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 4, 2013 at 12:10 pm #

    William Rawle: Are they really just that stupid and incompetent?

    Being old enough to have actually used a typewriter to fill out printed forms I know that most people just used the space bar to move from field to field even if tabs had been set up….which they usually weren’t.

  131. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 4, 2013 at 12:10 pm #

    I presume that these are the clipping masks that Mike Zullo are NEVER created by simply scanning a document and must be the result of human intervention (like checking the “optimize” box).

    W. Kevin Vicklund: This model contains one background layer, N foreground layers and N mask layers, where N is a non-negative integer.

  132. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 4, 2013 at 12:15 pm #

    Hermitian: I prefer to give Zullo the benefit of the doubt because he is a law man.

    Zullo may have been a “law man” in New Jersey many years ago but today, in Arizona, he absolutely no police powers. You do understand that, don’t you?

  133. avatar
    Greenfinches June 4, 2013 at 12:18 pm #

    <blockquote cite=" Bovril: So, EXACTLY what is the problem?

    well we know the answer there, surely.

    For some, it is because he is a Democrat; and for others, well he is a bit non-white……… Hermitian? I suspect that he is a Democrat-phobe.

    I think that birthers need to grow up. You have to take the election result anyway, even if you did not vote for the winner. Tough life, isn’t it..

  134. avatar
    Hermitian June 4, 2013 at 12:18 pm #

    Yoda: I assume you mean other than the certified copies of the COLB and the LFBC that Hawaii produced.

    You mean the certified copies that the HDOH purportedly produced. These have never been seen by the public. So the existence and content of these purported copies is unknown.

    So lets see the two certified copies that Fuddy provided to Obama on April 25, 2011.

    These would have been photocopied onto Green basket-weave safety paper and would have the seal impression of the State of Hawaii and the Registrar’s signature and date stamps in permanent Black ink.

  135. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 4, 2013 at 12:21 pm #

    Unless one were using the typewriter to do a lot of forms at one time, one wouldn’t set tabs. The birth certificate is a special case in that virtually every line has different tabs, and it is unlikely that anyone would try to set up tabs for it. Remember, birth certificates were typed by the hospital, not the Health Bureau.

    Zullo is leading the drooling birthers around by the nose.

    CarlOrcas: Being old enough to have actually used a typewriter to fill out printed forms I know that most people just used the space bar to move from field to field even if tabs had been set up….which they usually weren’t.

  136. avatar
    Yoda June 4, 2013 at 12:25 pm #

    Hermitian: You mean the certified copies that the HDOH purportedly produced.These have never been seen by the public.So the existence and content of these purported copies is unknown.

    So lets see the two certified copies that Fuddy provided to Obama on April 25, 2011.

    These would have been photocopied onto Green basket-weave safety paper and would have the seal impression of the State of Hawaii and the Registrar’s signature and date stamps in permanent Black ink.

    You mean it would look exactly like what was scanned and posted at whitehouse.gov?

    And like it or not, one of them was photographed by Guthrie.

    And you have not addressed the COLB, which by the way, is the official birth certificate from Hawaii

  137. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 4, 2013 at 12:32 pm #

    Bovril: Still waiting for your acknowledgement that Zullo is not actually a “law man”

    Don’t hold your breath.

    If he was he wouldn’t be doing what he is doing……presenting his “case” to private groups and on talk radio shows.

    Of course he has to do that because the grand conspiracy (Who isn’t involved?) keeps him from doing it the right way…..and the birthers buy it…..hook, line and sinker.

  138. avatar
    Yoda June 4, 2013 at 12:34 pm #

    Hermie, if you take one thing out of your time here, understand that have been allowed to say your piece. You have not been banned. If the show were on the other foot and were posting anti birther stuff on a birther website, you would have been banned a very long time ago.

    Birther and tea party groups are the least American people I have ever seen. They look to suppress the opposition and curtail free speech. If I knew nothing else about this subject, I would look at which side is allowing for an honest discussion of the issues. I would know that that side had nothing to fear. By comparison, any and I mean comments that are either anti birther and/or pro Obama are scrubbed from birther sites and the posters are typically banned.

  139. avatar
    Rickey June 4, 2013 at 12:39 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Zullo may have been a “law man” in New Jersey many years ago but today, in Arizona, he absolutely no police powers. You do understand that, don’t you?

    We don’t even know if Zullo actually was a “law man” in New Jersey or something along the lines of a private investigator. I could be wrong about this, but I believe that he has always evaded answering questions about his specific experience in New Jersey.

  140. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 4, 2013 at 12:42 pm #

    Hermitian: So lets see the two certified copies that Fuddy provided to Obama on April 25, 2011.

    These would have been photocopied onto Green basket-weave safety paper and would have the seal impression of the State of Hawaii and the Registrar’s signature and date stamps in permanent Black ink.

    I know this is probably a waste of time but here it is http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf

    You think this is a forgery, right? But when it comes to all the nonsense posited by Zullo, Zebest, et al you have no qualms….no questions. Very telling.

  141. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 4, 2013 at 12:46 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Unless one were using the typewriter to do a lot of forms at one time, one wouldn’t set tabs. The birth certificate is a special case in that virtually every line has different tabs, and it is unlikely that anyone would try to set up tabs for it. Remember, birth certificates were typed by the hospital, not the Health Bureau.

    Zullo is leading the drooling birthers around by the nose.

    Given the lack of consistency in the long form fields there is also another problem that those of us who really used typewriters recall and that is that you couldn’t set tabs close to each other because of the way the tab selector engaged the tabs. As I recall they had to be five or ten spaces apart so it had enough room..

    Tabs worked for columnar work but not for something like this form with different points on virtually every line.

  142. avatar
    William Rawle June 4, 2013 at 12:46 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Being old enough to have actually used a typewriter to fill out printed forms I know that most people just used the space bar to move from field to field even if tabs had been set up….which they usually weren’t.

    Dr. Conspiracy: The birth certificate is a special case in that virtually every line has different tabs, and it is unlikely that anyone would try to set up tabs for it.

    On the Hawaiian BCs from 1961 there are several boxes that line up vertically (6b, 7c, 9, 12b and 14) and I suppose a typist might set a tab for them (Check out those boxes on Edith Coats’ BC).

    http://passportsusa.com/wp-content/gallery/passportusa/edith_front.jpg

    The entries line up vertically.

    But that is the preference of the individual typist not as Zullo suggests some kind of state wide rule.

    If you look at the Nordyke sisters’ BCs, they aren’t even the same for the twins.

    http://wtpotus.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/gretchennordykebirthcertificate.png

    http://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/twinlivebirth.jpg

    And we know that Zullo is aware of the Nordykes’ BCs because he uses their certification numbers in his affidavits.

  143. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 4, 2013 at 12:49 pm #

    Rickey: We don’t even know if Zullo actually was a “law man” in New Jersey or something along the lines of a private investigator. I could be wrong about this, but I believe that he has always evaded answering questions about his specific experience in New Jersey.

    I forget the name of the city but it is small and the department is even smaller…..like less than a dozen people? I don’t recall anyone ever confirmed that he definitely worked for the department.

  144. avatar
    Rickey June 4, 2013 at 12:52 pm #

    I found a story about Zullo claiming that he was a police officer for five years in Demarest, N.J. If true, that was more than twenty years ago.

    http://www.kpho.com/story/19094741/cold-case-posse-lacks-law-enforcement-experience

  145. avatar
    Majority Will June 4, 2013 at 12:52 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Don’t hold your breath.

    If he was he wouldn’t be doing what he is doing……presenting his “case” to private groups and on talk radio shows.

    Of course he has to do that because the grand conspiracy (Who isn’t involved?) keeps him from doing it the right way…..and the birthers buy it…..hook, line and sinker.

    The other birther bigot con artists must be so proud. Nice grifting.

  146. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 4, 2013 at 12:53 pm #

    William Rawle: But that is the preference of the individual typist not as Zullo suggests some kind of state wide rule.

    And, as Doc noted and I hadn’t considered, the form was filled out by the hospital so you have to believe the typewriter was used for lots of other things which means the chances of setting tabs every time you did a birth certificate is unlikely because by the time you did that you could have simply spaced from block to block and typed in the information.

    Like everything else from the Birther Conspiracy Squad it’s much ado about nothing…..absolutely nothing.

  147. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 4, 2013 at 12:57 pm #

    Rickey:
    I found a story about Zullo claiming that he was a police officer for five years in Demarest, N.J. If true, that was more than twenty years ago.

    http://www.kpho.com/story/19094741/cold-case-posse-lacks-law-enforcement-experience

    Here is the department’s website http://www.demarestnj.net/Police.php

    Notice that including the chief and three sergeants there are twelve officers. I don’t see any detectives but things may have been different when Zullo was there.

    I do notice that they have more crossing guards that full time officers…..a real hotbed of crime.

  148. avatar
    Rickey June 4, 2013 at 1:09 pm #

    I also see a reference that Zullo said this about his credentials:

    I worked as a detective in Bergen County, N.J. for five years. Keep in mind that this was the metropolitan area across the river from New York City out to Newark and Union City, N.J., an area that includes over a million people with 70 police departments, an area that does not have as much street crime as it does mob crime and a high level of white collar crime. I was also involved with major narcotics investigations.

    http://rcradioblog.wordpress.com/2012/08/12/ccp-chief-deputy-clown-zullo-engages-in-hilarious-resume-padding/

    You can see his slippery way with language in play here. He implies that his territory included Newark and Union City, but Newark is in Essex County and Union City is in Hudson County. Demarest is a quiet bedroom community in northern New Jersey, five miles south of the border with New York State’s Rockland County.

    The only reason Zullo would have had to travel to Newark was to get to the airport.

  149. avatar
    William Rawle June 4, 2013 at 1:15 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Like everything else from the Birther Conspiracy Squad it’s much ado about nothing…..absolutely nothing.

    Zullo stood up in front of the Constipated Sheriff’s Convention and said Hawaii BCs are “left and right justified perfectly and that’s the way they are suppose to be.” when he knew or should have known that there are Hawaiian BCs that are not “left and right justified”.

    So was he lying or is he just incompetent or both?

  150. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 4, 2013 at 1:50 pm #

    William Rawle: So was he lying or is he just incompetent or both?

    That’s a rhetorical question…..right?

    I don’t know what he means by “right justified”. The only typewriters capable of justifying (making the right margin match on every line) the right margin were the electric typewriters made by IBM and a couple others like Friden which used proportionally spaced character sets. They also required the text to be recorded first (rudimentary word processing capability) so the typewriter could figure out how to proportion spaces so both margins were even. They were very expensive and no one used them to fill out forms.

    The left margin on manual typewriters wasn’t “justified” in that sense. You could just start each line at the same point and they would line up. You could do that by hand or with the mechanical margin stop.

    Bottom line (so to speak): Zullo has no idea what he is talking about.

  151. avatar
    Yoda June 4, 2013 at 1:55 pm #

    William Rawle: Zullo stood up in front of the Constipated Sheriff’s Convention andsaid Hawaii BCs are “left and right justified perfectly and that’s the way they are suppose to be.” when he knew or should have known that there are Hawaiian BCs that are not “left and right justified”.

    So was he lying or is he just incompetent or both?

    Only Zullo knows whether he is lying. There are a number of things, such as the “pencil coding” that suggests to me, or is at least circumstantial evidence that he is a liar. But he has shown a remarkable amount of incompetence as an investigator or detective. He gets even the basic stuff wrong. I could give several examples, but most of here have seen it over and over again. If I had to compare him to anyone, it would be Klayman.

    I look at Klayman and I see someone who a more polished version of Orly and someone who hides the crazy better than she does. Zullo is a lot like that. He gives the appearance of normality, but when you dissect the words and the actions, there really isn’t much there once you get past the hyperbole.

  152. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 4, 2013 at 1:57 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I presume that these are the clipping masks that Mike Zullo are NEVER created by simply scanning a document and must be the result of human intervention (like checking the “optimize” box).

    Exactly. Also, consider that an additional step of compressing the file after scanning it is not unusual (as opposed to it being done in the scanning process). I used to always compress pictures before posting them to the web or sending them in email – you couldn’t post them at those file sizes back then!

  153. avatar
    Majority Will June 4, 2013 at 2:01 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Bottom line (so to speak): Zullo has no idea what he is talking about.

    With a receptive audience of birther bigots who really don’t care if the details are accurate.

    They get tumescent at the thought of anything that might smear the President or lead to the downfall of the “not one of us”, dark skinned devil.

  154. avatar
    William Rawle June 4, 2013 at 2:18 pm #

    CarlOrcas: The left margin on manual typewriters wasn’t “justified” in that sense. You could just start each line at the same point and they would line up. You could do that by hand or with the mechanical margin stop.

    A 1961 Hawaiian BC is wider then what is seen in the LFBC that are given to the parents. So technically the left margin on the released BCs are not the true margin of the form. So there could be a tab setting that produces the left justified results of the Edith Coats BC

    On a manual typewriter a typist could hit the carriage return lever several times and advance the form up line-by-line while keeping the carriage in the same place or they could use the carriage return lever to put the carriage anywhere on the line of a form. It would depend on the individual typist and their preference.

    CarlOrcas: Bottom line (so to speak): Zullo has no idea what he is talking about.

    That’s true whether he’s talking about typewriting, computer imaging or BC statistical codes. He is totally dependent on what others tell him. And being a believer, he accepts whatever he is told that verifies what he believes.

  155. avatar
    US Citizen June 4, 2013 at 2:23 pm #

    5 years as a police officer doesn’t seem very long to me.
    Was he fired, and if so, why?
    Did he leave by his own accord and if so, why?
    Perhaps the dept had too many officers or some cutbacks.
    If so, aren’t the least effective or most incompetent usually the first to be dismissed?
    Might Zullo have been overzealous in so many arrests that, once heard by a court, they were often found to be frivolous or lacking in evidence and thus he was costing the city too much?

    I don’t know the answer to any of these questions above, but 5 years at almost any skilled job is hardly worth mentioning as dominant or qualifying “career experience.”

    I have relatives in law enforcement.
    One cousin is a detective with the LA sheriffs dept.
    It took him many years to obtain that position.
    First he needed over a year of initial training, another year where he had to accompany more experienced officers on their calls and wasn’t allowed to do much by himself only. Another 2 years was spent on an assigned “beat” where he was in a car or on foot.
    Then there were years he had to apprentice as a detective and was basically an investigative librarian. More schooling and several more of years of denied applications and reviews and he finally made detective.
    Even then, his detective work only covers a singular subject: domestic abuse.
    In his own words “had my car been stolen, I couldn’t even lead, let alone participate in my own car investigation.”

    I can’t imagine Zullo quickly becoming a detective even in a small town. If he did, he sure didn’t last long.
    Again, why?

  156. avatar
    Yoda June 4, 2013 at 2:34 pm #

    US Citizen: 5 years as a police officer doesn’t seem very long to me.Was he fired, and if so, why?Did he leave by his own accord and if so, why?Perhaps the dept had too many officers or some cutbacks.If so, aren’t the least effective or most incompetent usually the first to be dismissed?Might Zullo have been overzealous in so many arrests that, once heard by a court, they were often found to be frivolous or lacking in evidence and thus he was costing the city too much?I don’t know the answer to any of these questions above, but 5 years at almost any skilled job is hardly worth mentioning as dominant or qualifying “career experience.”I have relatives in law enforcement.One cousin is a detective with the LA sheriffs dept.It took him many years to obtain that position.First he needed over a year of initial training, another year where he had to accompany more experienced officers on their calls and wasn’t allowed to do much by himself only. Another 2 years was spent on an assigned “beat” where he was in a car or on foot.Then there were years he had to apprentice as a detective and was basically an investigative librarian. More schooling and several more of years of denied applications and reviews and he finally made detective.Even then, his detective work only covers a singular subject: domestic abuse.In his own words “had my car been stolen, I couldn’t even lead, let alone participate in my own car investigation.”I can’t imagine Zullo quickly becoming a detective even in a small town. If he did, he sure didn’t last long.Again, why?

    Perhaps he went to the “Taft” on line school for detectives.

  157. avatar
    JD Reed June 4, 2013 at 2:39 pm #

    Hermitian:

    Do you really believe that Zullo would lie about his evidence to a room full of retired and active law enforcement professionals?

    Well, why not? He’s lied before the whole world. Re his swearing in an affidavit a few months ago that Obama as almost the first order of presidential business sealed his personal records. Oh, that’s right — this is the same falsehood that you were peddling a short time ago in this very thread. My challenge still stands: Show us in black and white where a presidential executive order sealed Obama’s personal records.

  158. avatar
    Majority Will June 4, 2013 at 2:42 pm #

    Yoda: Perhaps he went to the “Taft” on line school for detectives.

    Bazinga!

  159. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 4, 2013 at 2:54 pm #

    William Rawle: It would depend on the individual typist and their preference.

    Exactly! Speculating in 2013 about how some unknown typist went about filling out a form 52 years ago is just silly…..unless you’ve managed to conjure up a grand conspiracy because you’re upset about a black man living in the White House.

  160. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 4, 2013 at 2:56 pm #

    US Citizen: I can’t imagine Zullo quickly becoming a detective even in a small town. If he did, he sure didn’t last long.
    Again, why?

    It doesn’t matter. It’s irrelevant but, like everything else, it’s another sticky pile of stuff that gets thrown up against the wall to see if it will stick and distract rational people from the absurdity of the whole situation.

  161. avatar
    Monkey Boy June 4, 2013 at 2:57 pm #

    Hermitian: You mean the certified copies that the HDOH purportedly produced.These have never been seen by the public.So the existence and content of these purported copies is unknown.

    So, tell us Hermie, which Presidents’ birth certifications have you seen? Held in your hand and felt the seal? Reagan’s? Eisenhower’s? Either Bushs’? Which ones?

  162. avatar
    US Citizen June 4, 2013 at 3:18 pm #

    CarlOrcas: It doesn’t matter. It’s irrelevant but, like everything else, it’s another sticky pile of stuff that gets thrown up against the wall to see if it will stick and distract rational people from the absurdity of the whole situation.

    But this the subject matter of this very blog.
    It’s a legally decided issue. Moot for all purposes.
    Our focus is now more of questioning the claimants than analyzing the law or evidence.

    My reason for asking this question is simply to provide a few more questions that suggest Zullo (and others) are liars or completely incompetent.
    People undecided need to know as much as they can about the people pushing birther issues.
    They often don’t believe the answers.
    Let them ponder some questions instead.

    Regardless, if all the “obot” blogs and new articles disappeared today, nothing much would change for either birthers or us.
    They’d continue to dismissed or denied at every legal junction.
    So we here are somewhat ineffective or superfluous.
    All we have left are facts, opinions and commentary regarding the veracity and qualifications of the most vocal of birthers.
    Ideally, I would like to educate all birthers and prosecute all the birther grifters.

  163. avatar
    Hermitian June 4, 2013 at 4:11 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Barack Obama, in his book Dreams from My Father provides a good metaphor for the birthers:
    I watched the man set the [chicken] down, pinning it gently under one knee and pulling its neck out across a narrow gutter. For a moment the bird struggled, beating its wings hard against the ground, a few feathers dancing up with the wind. Then it grew completely still. The man pulled the blade across the bird’s neck in a single smooth motion. Blood shot out in a long, crimson ribbon. The man stood up, holding the bird far away from his body, and suddenly tossed it high into the air. It landed with a thud, then struggled to its feet, its head lolling grotesquely against its side, its legs pumping wildly in a wide, wobbly circle. I watched as the circle grew smaller, the blood trickling down to a gurgle, until finally the bird collapsed, lifeless on the grass.

    Hermitian: Time is running out and

    Yep! That Bill Ayers is one a hell ofa writer! He’s also an accomplished bomb maker.

  164. avatar
    Hermitian June 4, 2013 at 4:18 pm #

    JD Reed: Well, why not? He’s lied before the whole world. Re his swearing in an affidavit a few months ago that Obama as almost the first order of presidential business sealed his personal records. Oh, that’s right — this is the same falsehood that you were peddling a short time ago in this very thread.My challenge still stands: Show us in black and white where a presidential executive order sealed Obama’s personal records.

    So you don’t really know whether Obama had all of his personal records that were held by the Federal Government in Jan 2009 sealed immediately? But then we do know that the Federal Government has refused to provide any evidence that said records even exist.

  165. avatar
    Hermitian June 4, 2013 at 4:25 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: Exactly.Also, consider that an additional step of compressing the file after scanning it is not unusual (as opposed to it being done in the scanning process).I used to always compress pictures before posting them to the web or sending them in email – you couldn’t post them at those file sizes back then!

    And then you are going to tell us that it was perfectly logical for the forger to run the optimized PDF through Apple Preview just to erase all the METADATA from the optimization step.

    Sure it was ! When pigs can fly !

  166. avatar
    Hermitian June 4, 2013 at 4:41 pm #

    CarlOrcas: William Rawle: So was he lying or is he just incompetent or both?
    That’s a rhetorical question…..right?
    I don’t know what he means by “right justified”. The only typewriters capable of justifying (making the right margin match on every line) the right margin were the electric typewriters made by IBM and a couple others like Friden which used proportionally spaced character sets. They also required the text to be recorded first (rudimentary word processing capability) so the typewriter could figure out how to proportion spaces so both margins were even. They were very expensive and no one used them to fill out forms.
    The left margin on manual typewriters wasn’t “justified” in that sense. You could just start each line at the same point and they would line up. You could do that by hand or with the mechanical margin stop.
    Bottom line (so to speak): Zullo has no idea what he is talking about.

    You Obots are just pathetic!

    http://machinesoflovinggrace.com/ptf/OnlineManual.html

    See “margins” and “carriage returns”

    It’s really not complicated !

  167. avatar
    Hermitian June 4, 2013 at 4:52 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Unless one were using the typewriter to do a lot of forms at one time, one wouldn’t set tabs. The birth certificate is a special case in that virtually every line has different tabs, and it is unlikely that anyone would try to set up tabs for it. Remember, birth certificates were typed by the hospital, not the Health Bureau.
    Zullo is leading the drooling birthers around by the nose.

    CarlOrcas: Being old enough to have actually used a typewriter to fill out printed forms I know that most people just used the space bar to move from field to field even if tabs had been set up….which they usually weren’t.

    Gee that’s funny — on the following earlier post of yours, all of the exhibit Hawaii birth certificates were (at least) left justified as was your “reconstruction” of Obama’s LFCOLB. Remember that was the”reconstruction” that you created two years before Obama released his LFCOLB?

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/08/the-long-form-reconstructed/

  168. avatar
    Bovril June 4, 2013 at 5:23 pm #

    YooHoo Hermie…

    Still waiting on a response……SURELY you are better than Mario the Putz and can answer,,,,,?

  169. avatar
    Rickey June 4, 2013 at 5:48 pm #

    CarlOrcas:

    The left margin on manual typewriters wasn’t “justified” in that sense. You could just start each line at the same point and they would line up. You could do that by hand or with the mechanical margin stop.

    And the left margin on a typewriter would not be perfectly “justified” if the paper wasn’t inserted exactly straight, or if the document being typed had to be removed before it was finished and re-inserted for completion.

    Typists also would sometimes need to change a document’s position slightly while it was still in the typewriter, which of course would alter the alignment. A typist would use the paper release lever to loosen the paper, adjust it as necessary and then close the paper release lever.

    I was in communications in the Navy for four years in the late sixties and I typed extensively with manual typewriters and teletype machines. I also owned my own Smith-Corona portable electric typewriter.

  170. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 4, 2013 at 6:03 pm #

    Rickey: I was in communications in the Navy for four years in the late sixties and I typed extensively with manual typewriters and teletype machines.

    I started in the news business in the mid-60′s and everything was on manual typewriters. I did love the teletype that was in the police press room. Some people could never master that special rhythm. It could smack your fingers pretty good if it kicked back on you.

  171. avatar
    G June 4, 2013 at 6:17 pm #

    Yep. Those two points pretty much sum the whole scam up…

    Majority Will: With a receptive audience of birther bigots who really don’t care if the details are accurate.

    They get tumescent at the thought of anything that might smear the President or lead to the downfall of the “not one of us”, dark skinned devil.

    CarlOrcas: It doesn’t matter. It’s irrelevant but, like everything else, it’s another sticky pile of stuff that gets thrown up against the wall to see if it will stick and distract rational people from the absurdity of the whole situation.

  172. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 4, 2013 at 6:36 pm #

    US Citizen: Ideally, I would like to educate all birthers and prosecute all the birther grifters.

    We will have to wait for being “Dumb in Public” to become a crime before we can proceed with the latter. The former appears to be a never ending challenge.

  173. avatar
    Jim June 4, 2013 at 6:48 pm #

    CarlOrcas: We will have to wait for being “Dumb in Public” to become a crime before we can proceed with the latter. The former appears to be a never ending challenge.

    Felony “Dumb in Public”…nice way to clear out congress. :D

  174. avatar
    Yoda June 4, 2013 at 7:09 pm #

    David Farrar–how is that you manage to be so condescending about something you know so little about?

  175. avatar
    Thinker June 4, 2013 at 7:33 pm #

    You will probably have to wait until about 2020 to see one of these. It will probably be on display in the Obama Presidential Library.

    Hermitian: So lets see the two certified copies that Fuddy provided to Obama on April 25, 2011.

  176. avatar
    nbc June 4, 2013 at 7:45 pm #

    Hermitian: Do you really believe that Zullo would lie about his evidence to a room full of retired and active law enforcement professionals?

    Why not? His goal is not longer a criminal case but rather to get Congress involved… A little lie could go a long way…

    But it could be simple ignorance as well.

  177. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 4, 2013 at 7:52 pm #

    That reconstruction was based on the Alan certificate from the military base. The Nordyke certificate from Kapi’olani is not left justified.

    Left justification is easy, and easy to set, compared with tabs. There is a trade-off between quick typing, starting every line on the left, or making the text look good under the titles. Personally, I think the age of the mother looks better on the Obama certificate than on the Alan certificate because of the centering.

    Hermitian: Gee that’s funny — on the following earlier post of yours, all of the exhibit Hawaii birth certificates were (at least) left justified as was your “reconstruction” of Obama’s LFCOLB. Remember that was the”reconstruction” that you created two years before Obama released his LFCOLB?

  178. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 4, 2013 at 8:01 pm #

    Hermitian: See “margins” and “carriage returns”

    It’s really not complicated !

    What is your point?

  179. avatar
    William Rawle June 4, 2013 at 8:07 pm #

    Hermitian: on the following earlier post of yours, all of the exhibit Hawaii birth certificates were (at least) left justified as was your “reconstruction” of Obama’s LFCOLB.

    Dr. Conspiracy: The Nordyke certificate from Kapi’olani is not left justified.

    Since that earlier article there have been several additional Hawaiian BCs found. These are not left justified.

    August 24th, 1961

    http://rcradioshow.blogspot.com/2011/10/jerome-corsi-paul-irey-and-lucas-smith.html

    May, 1959

    http://www.wnd.com/2011/05/298537/

  180. avatar
    JoZeppy June 4, 2013 at 8:12 pm #

    Hermitian: So you don’t really know whether Obama had all of his personal records that were held by the Federal Government in Jan 2009 sealed immediately?But then we do know that the Federal Government has refused to provide any evidence that said records even exist.

    No…we all are pretty clear that no such Order was ever issued. We’ve read the EO. We compared it to the GWB EO on the same subject matter. It is pretty clear that 1) they cover Presidential Documents, not personal documents; and 2) BO’s EO actually is more open than GWB’s.

    As to why the Federal Government has refused to provide any evidence on said records…perhaps it has everything to do with the fact that the vast majority are not even Federal documents (birth certificate, college records, hospital documents, etc., are not in the control of the federal government), those that are federal records are mostly protected by privacy laws that cover every American equally and release is expressly prohibited by law (social security records); or actually released (selective service records).

    Birthers have been asking the same questions for almost 6 years now, and the answers have never changed. You’ve had the Executive order put under your nose, had both Federal and Hawaii law quoted to you, but you just keep pretending like everyone just ignores your questions.

  181. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 4, 2013 at 8:13 pm #

    Hermitian: So you don’t really know whether Obama had all of his personal records that were held by the Federal Government in Jan 2009 sealed immediately? But then we do know that the Federal Government has refused to provide any evidence that said records even exist.

    I suggest that everyone take a couple minutes and read what Hermetian wrote. Read it several times. Each time it will make less and less sense.

    But….ever the optimist let me ask you: What personal records would the Federal Government have for a President……..before he is sworn in? Even after a President is in office it is my recollection that official and personal records are maintained seperately.

  182. avatar
    Thinker June 4, 2013 at 8:16 pm #

    His point is that if everything is left justified, it’s evidence of forgery. If everything isn’t left justified, it’s also evidence of forgery.

    CarlOrcas: What is your point?

  183. avatar
    Arthur June 4, 2013 at 8:18 pm #

    It’s begun! Zullo’s recent presentations have opened the eyes of a VIP: Chief Kessler of the Gilberton, PA police department. Gilberton boasts an impressive population of just under 900 people, so I’m sure that Kessler’s decision has got the White House in a panic. According to Kessler,

    “Lt Zullo presented rock-solid evidence to an audience of about 300 constitutional peace officers. The birth certificate displayed on the internet and represented as Obama’s original birth certificate is unquestionably a forgery. However, the fraudulent birth certificate is just the tip of the iceberg.”

    http://ppsimmons.blogspot.com/2013/06/its-happening-pennsylvania-police-chief.html

  184. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 4, 2013 at 8:29 pm #

    Arthur: However, the fraudulent birth certificate is just the tip of the iceberg.”

    Icebergs are a big problem in Gilberton.

  185. avatar
    Rickey June 4, 2013 at 8:39 pm #

    CarlOrcas: I started in the news business in the mid-60′s and everything was on manual typewriters. I did love the teletype that was in the police press room. Some people could never master that special rhythm. It could smack your fingers pretty good if it kicked back on you.

    A teletype also had only three rows of keys (letters were all capitals, numerals were the upper case of the top row of letters), and instead of a simple carriage returns we had to do two carriage returns and a line feed at the end of each line. I was pretty good – 70 wpm or so – but we had a Filipino teletype operator at Subic Bay who could type 100 wpm with no errors.

    This is similar to the equipment I worked on:

    http://www.railroad-signaling.com/tty/tn_m28_jpg.jpg

  186. avatar
    nbc June 4, 2013 at 8:40 pm #

    Arthur: According to Kessler,

    ROTFL. I can’t wait for the Sheriff to be told by the prosecutor that there is no case… Imagine the damage that would do to the work by the tax-exempt organization headed by Zullo…

  187. avatar
    Monkey Boy June 4, 2013 at 8:53 pm #

    Hermitian: You mean the certified copies that the HDOH purportedly produced.These have never been seen by the public.So the existence and content of these purported copies is unknown.

    Monkey Boy: So, tell us Hermie, which Presidents’ birth certifications have you seen? Held in your hand and felt the seal? Reagan’s? Eisenhower’s? Either Bushs’?Which ones?

    In case hermie didn’t see the question HERE.

  188. avatar
    Rickey June 4, 2013 at 8:56 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Icebergs are a big problem in Gilberton.

    Gilberton is in Schuylkill County, which is heavily Republican. Romney won 56% of vote in Schuylkill County. In January of this year the birther police chief proposed a “Second Amendment Preservation Ordinance.”

    http://heelsandhandguns.com/2013/01/police-chiefs-idea-amendment-resolution-passed-gilberton-pa/

    Somehow I doubt that the chief needed much persuading by Zullo.

  189. avatar
    Yoda June 4, 2013 at 9:08 pm #

    Arthur:
    It’s begun! Zullo’s recent presentations have opened the eyes of a VIP: Chief Kessler of the Gilberton, PA police department. Gilberton boasts an impressive population of just under 900 people, so I’m sure that Kessler’s decision has got the White House in a panic. According to Kessler,

    “Lt Zullo presented rock-solid evidence to an audience of about 300 constitutional peace officers. The birth certificate displayed on the internet and represented as Obama’s original birth certificate is unquestionably a forgery. However, the fraudulent birth certificate is just the tip of the iceberg.”

    http://ppsimmons.blogspot.com/2013/06/its-happening-pennsylvania-police-chief.html

    Pennsylvania has been aptly described as Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, separated by Alabama.

  190. avatar
    Arthur June 4, 2013 at 9:17 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Icebergs are a big problem in Gilberton.

    I’d say their biggest problem is an extremely gullible sheriff. Notice to criminals: if you want to commit crimes with impunity, go to Gilberton. I hear the sheriff will believe anything.

  191. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 4, 2013 at 9:28 pm #

    Rickey: Somehow I doubt that the chief needed much persuading by Zullo.

    Population of Gilberton is about 750 from what I can see which means the department is probably a handful of people…..around a half dozen I would guess.

    But, never fear, the Chief has a plan in case the feds descend on Gilberton to take everyone’s guns:

    http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/02/police-chief-wants-citizens-as-reserve-force-to-defend-against-feds/

    Chief Kessler is a certified right wing nut job.

  192. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 4, 2013 at 9:29 pm #

    Arthur: I’d say their biggest problem is an extremely gullible sheriff. Notice to criminals: if you want tocommit crimes with impunity, go to Gilberton. I hear the sheriff will believe anything.

    See my message to Rickey. The Chief is certifiable.

  193. avatar
    Arthur June 4, 2013 at 9:31 pm #

    More icebergs are calving from the great birther ice sheet. Now it’s Arpaio’s confidant and former Sheriff, Richard Mack. He swears that he NEVER was a birther before he heard Jesus, I mean, Zullo, speak, but now he’s an apostle:
    “I used to scoff the birther issue – now I am a believer!”
    “Congress must investigate this matter – it is their duty.”

    http://ppsimmons.blogspot.com/2013/06/stunner-sheriff-richard-mack-now-i-am.html

    I’m worried . . . do we need to ask Soros to initiate escape plan, “Kenya Catch Me”?

  194. avatar
    Arthur June 4, 2013 at 9:34 pm #

    CarlOrcas: The Chief is certifiable.

    Indeed. Remind me to cross Gilberton off my bucket list.

  195. avatar
    nbc June 4, 2013 at 9:45 pm #

    And the report by the non-profit AZ organization is complete hearsay… Once a prosecutor is informed how the AZ prosecutors refused to take the case, I predict nothing much will happen.

  196. avatar
    nbc June 4, 2013 at 10:04 pm #

    Who is holding Zullo’s hands when he is presenting the findings of his non-profit?

    Note that Posse members are not Law Enforcement officers. The Sun City Posse is not a Law Enforcement Agency. However Posse members who are in the presence of a Regular Compensated Deputy Sheriff can do any task with appropriate authority when authorized to do so. Due to this, all candidates are subjected to a background scrutiny, are fingerprinted, checked out by the F.B.I. and other National Databases such as N.C.I.C.

    Sun City Posse

    Not law enforcement unless in the presence of a regular compensated deputy Sheriff… No wonder Zullo did not sign as anything official in his affidavit.

    It’s just an affidavit, with no real law enforcement values… And Arpaio is hiding… No wonder they want to go to congress…

  197. avatar
    Colin Foote June 4, 2013 at 11:37 pm #

    I’m sorry for being confused, but I read your post twice trying to glean exactly what your intended point is. You are really focused on a trivial thing here. Please don’t be offended, but if this were written in the negative by a “birther”, I would say they appeared a little paranoid and, well, crazy. Like they were overinvested in a perishing dilemma.

    Forgive me in advance for my belabored, run-on question. So, are you saying that because a law enforcement investigator is attempting to mislead people who we have been told for five years don’t care about this issue anyway, as well as other law enforcement investigators, using a false account of the historical use of the word “African” as it applies to race classification in one entry on a vital record processed more than 50 years ago, and that his attribution of that term to what can only be assumed must be super-secret requirements cited in some belatedly published obscure vital data collection process manual, is 1 degree from accurate among the historical obscurity of perhaps billions of birth records since, then that means the .pdf image of Obama’s alleged 1961 certificate of live birth posted to a government controlled media source as the sole form of natal identification used by Obama as proof to the world that he is constitutionally qualified, should therefore be considered 100 percent true and unassailable with regard to its veracity and truthful representation of Obama’s natal identity?

    The same Obama overseeing an administration now deteriorating under the weight of a cavalcade of scandals rooted in dishonesty, cover-up and misrepresentation of documented evidence? That same Obama?

    Sorry Doc, you lost me. Rationally and affectionately. People simply don’t give a milling what some insignificant investigator from crap-hole America says about anything. And you shouldn’t either.

    You doth protest too much against such a trivial matter that no one is supposedly concerned about. Why? Given the crushing weight of all controversy currently occurring, you are never going to convince anyone with a pulse that Obama has been honest about anything. Including his natal identity. If he and his administration are willing to violate the trust of American citizens by targeting them for their beliefs and denying them fair consideration under the law, how are you going uphold your integrity by saying, “Yeah…but what about Mike Zullo?”

    Am I, as an unadulterated idiot to this birth certificate issue, supposed to now suddenly be swept away by the confidence you are attempting to instill by actually arguing that some single word appearing in box 7C, line 8 of a cartoon image of an alleged vital document put out on a government controlled website by the very same individual propagating the other most prolific lies in American political history really matters? Please pardon my incredulity, but what the fuck are you rambling about? Forget about this issue, my good man. People lie, get over it.

    Or, in the interest of rendering peace to the mind, should I and my family just role our eyes and, with confidence in the reality of all that has been exposed, and all that is about to be breach the domain of consciousness, accuse everyone involved in this psychotic charade, on all sides, of life-wasting paranoid conspiracism.

    Me thinks the latter is meet. Better days ahead. Better days ahead.

  198. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 4, 2013 at 11:48 pm #

    You seem not to be aware that this is the Obama Conspiracy Theories blog. If you want to discuss administration policy, you’re in the wrong place.

    Colin Foote: Sorry Doc, you lost me. Rationally and affectionately. People simply don’t give a milling what some insignificant investigator from crap-hole America says about anything. And you shouldn’t either.

  199. avatar
    JD Reed June 5, 2013 at 12:03 am #

    Hermitian: So you don’t really know whether Obama had all of his personal records that were held by the Federal Government in Jan 2009 sealed immediately? But then we do know that the Federal Government has refused to provide any evidence that said records even exist.

    Don’t lay your ignorance off on me. I really do know that Mr. Obama most certainly did not order any records held by the federal government sealed immediately, because no executive order has been found that does that. Most are not federal government records at all, so they would be beyond the reach of the president to seal. Those that were federal records are protected by federal privacy law, so no need to seal. In fact, sealing his records by executive order would accomplish nothing. If Congress were to enact a law making certain personal information about presidents or presidential candidates public information, and the sitting president could not kill such a bill with a veto, the new law would supersede any previous law on the subject, as well as any executive order on the subject. A new law can repeal an existing executive order, but an executive order cannot repeal an existing law. Don’t know whether you knew that.

  200. avatar
    NBC June 5, 2013 at 12:11 am #

    JD Reed: But then we do know that the Federal Government has refused to provide any evidence that said records even exist.

    Why would they respond to some foolish people who want to gain access to privileged information? And no, it is not privileged because he is President Obama, they are privileged because of privacy statutes.

    So you were wrong when you claimed a sealing order existed. No surprise there, as ignorance seems to be you main motivator.
    You let your hatred and fear guide you down a path of ignorance and ridicule. What a legacy…

    Do you not respect our laws?

    That was a rhetorical question btw…

  201. avatar
    Butterfly Bilderberg June 5, 2013 at 12:16 am #

    Yoda: Pennsylvania has been aptly described as Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, separated by Alabama.

    I lived in one of those small towns in the Allegheny region of Alabama. Deer country. The sport was in managing not to hit one with your vehicle. Well, deer AND skunks.

    I’m happy to report that our local constable never shot himself.

  202. avatar
    G June 5, 2013 at 12:28 am #

    The other “most prolific lies” in American political history? Seriously??? Histronic hyperbole much there, Colin? *rolls eyes*.

    Sorry, but as has already been noted in an earlier blog post, the current claimed “scandals” are pretty weak, comparable to past administration scandal records.

    So you simply reveal your own flawed and preconceived bias of simply distrusting and seeing fraud and scandal because you want to. You are just another blind tool, blindly reacting and distrusting on gut instinct in anyone you are predisposed against. Nothing more. Just another bitter sore loser out there, complaining for the mere sake of complaining.

    Colin Foote: by the very same individual propagating the other most prolific lies in American political history really matters? Please pardon my incredulity, but what the fuck are you rambling about? Forget about this issue, my good man. People lie, get over it.

  203. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 5, 2013 at 12:30 am #

    Hermitian: And then you are going to tell us that it was perfectly logical for the forger to run the optimized PDF through Apple Preview just to erase all the METADATA from the optimization step.

    Sure it was !When pigs can fly !

    Let’s review my workflow for putting a picture on the internet:

    1. Open picture with compression software
    2. Compress picture (which saves it as a different file type with otherwise the same name)
    3. Open compressed file in a PDF viewer
    4. Review compressed file for legibility
    5. Save as… file with descriptive name (unless viewer does not have Save as… functionality, then I am forced to manually edit the name from the folder it is saved in)
    6. Upload to internet

    Steps 4 and 5 correspond to the use of Mac Preview (I don’t use Mac’s as they have a tendency to catch on fire or otherwise crash spectacularly in my presence – true story) in a manner that would cause the metadata to be overwritten (it also causes the metadata to be overwritten when done from Adobe Acrobat on Windows 7, btw). Scanned files do not have descriptive names, rather they have formatted names that typically include date and time stamps and sequential numbering. The White House PDF has a descriptive name, so if it was scanned like we have been told, it must have been renamed at some point. It should also be noted that this is just one of several plausible scenarios. For instance, using the Share feature in Preview to send the compressed file to the webmaster to be uploaded (you didn’t think the webmaster was the same guy who scanned it, did you? in a government bureaucracy?).

    Again, this is all moot anyway.

  204. avatar
    John Reilly June 5, 2013 at 12:31 am #

    No “lie” told by the Obama Administration will ever match the claim that Saddam Hussein was accumulating yellowcake. That lie directly led to people actually firing weapons at me. And thousands of Americans dying. And thousands more of Iraqis and Afghans dying.

    No member of the Obama Administration has been convicted of a crime about his or her service in office. One needs to go back to Pres. Carter to find an administration so free of scandal.

    While I respect Doc’s view that this is not a blog about policy, I resent folks who mask their opposition by asserting that Pres. Obama is the “most divisive,” “most corrupt,” or such similar phrase. It’s like the Birthers. No relation to reality or the facts. There are plenty of reasons to oppose Pres. Obama on various policies. For example, I would not be happy to find that the news about Benghazi was slanted to help the President’s re-election, but I’ve not seen evidence of that. Nor am I happy that the IRS apparently gave increased scrutiny to Tea Party groups seeking a 501(c)(4) exemption. But as I understand the law a political group is not entitled to any 501(c)(4) exemption.

    So, Colin, if you are really concerned about lies by Presidents, let’s start with that yellowcake business.

  205. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 5, 2013 at 1:03 am #

    Also, Colin, remember that the IRS ‘scandal’ started during the Bush administration, about 2/3rds of the organizations investigated had violations that could have disqualified them, and the only group denied that status during that time was a progressive group training women how to run for office (disqualified because it targeted Democratic women).

  206. avatar
    Monkey Boy June 5, 2013 at 2:00 am #

    John Reilly:
    …..

    So, Colin, if you are really concerned about lies by Presidents, let’s start with that yellowcake business.

    No…lets start with Iran-contra.

  207. avatar
    Majority Will June 5, 2013 at 2:31 am #

    Colin Foote:
    I’m sorry for being confused . . .

    Comedy gold.

  208. avatar
    Rickey June 5, 2013 at 2:37 am #

    John Reilly:
    No “lie” told by the Obama Administration will ever match the claim that Saddam Hussein was accumulating yellowcake.That lie directly led to people actually firing weapons at me.And thousands of Americans dying.And thousands more of Iraqis and Afghans dying.

    And now we are learning that China threw $2 billion at the Iraqis and China is now getting half of Iraq’s oil output. I remember when the Bush Administration assured us that Iraq’s oil would pay for the war.

    No member of the Obama Administration has been convicted of a crime about his or her service in office.

    In fact, no member of the Obama Administration has even been charged with a crime.

  209. avatar
    Colin Foote June 5, 2013 at 2:52 am #

    I can conceive of no acceptably moral reason why the lies of president’s past thereby justify the lies of a president present. Agreed, Bush was a full mounted liar with regard to WMDs, and as I recall an interview in 2010, he expressed belated regret for not having all the facts before prematurely and dishonestly presenting the case for war. So, what then shall we say? “It is therefore only according to my loyalties bound by political ideology that I would stand against the liar?” So, you hate Bush and love Obama and therefore defend the lies of Obama and deride the lies of Bush, as if that binary standard elevates the righteous cause.

    I on, other hand, just hate the tyrannical deceiver… As such, I desecrated the Bush administration for lying about WMDs in Iraq. Absolutely defamed them and evangelized opposition to the March, 2003 invasion.

    So, now that we have established that I, in being a respecter of no man or his despicable politics, have forfeited the right to see the splinter in his eye, can we please come to the fucking moment at present and deal with the logs of deranged political bias embedded in your collective vision.

    Certainly you must recognize the wrath that has been stored over this matter. You cannot possibly be that unintelligent. Please tell me I’m right, that you understand this. The political and social ramifications over 20 years of scandalous regimes will hold justification for horrors committed by those you hate in portions never before imagined. They will invoke such a political mandate against all things you hold to be right, you will wish you had stood for truth when you had the chance. And, it will be because you chose to align yourself with despotism instead of the truth. Now, despotism will say, “But you worshipped and lusted after me when I was Obama, or Bush, or Clinton, or Reagan…therefore, you have no reprieve but to surrender to me now.” This is how nations end. With a complacent whimper.

    Be wiser. Oppose liars with power.

  210. avatar
    Northland10 June 5, 2013 at 7:08 am #

    Butterfly Bilderberg: I lived in one of those small towns in the Allegheny region of Alabama.Deer country.The sport was in managing not to hit one with your vehicle.Well, deer AND skunks.
    .

    One key is to not schedule evening meetings on the opening day of deer season. Unlike the hunters sitting in the wood, my truck was far more successful.

  211. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 5, 2013 at 8:19 am #

    No, I don’t have a clue what you are talking about.

    While I don’t agree with the Obama administration on everything, I have not found it to be dishonest. Perhaps some future revelation will contradict that but as to lies, they all seem to be coming from Obama’s opponents. The Obama administration is a breath of fresh air compared to his predecessor when it comes to transparency.

    That said, Obama administration policies, except as they relate to conspiracy theories, are off topic for this web site.

    Colin Foote: Certainly you must recognize the wrath that has been stored over this matter. You cannot possibly be that unintelligent. Please tell me I’m right, that you understand this.

  212. avatar
    Majority Will June 5, 2013 at 9:11 am #

    Colin Foote: Please tell me I’m right, that you understand this.

    That’s funny. Not ha ha funny, though.

    And a priceless gem from the earlier post: “I’m sorry for being confused, but I read your post twice trying to glean exactly what your intended point is.”

    Oh, the irony.

    If you can’t simply state that President Obama is a natural born citizen and there is no reasonable doubt or contrary credible evidence that he was eligible to run for the office of President of the United States, then you are a birther.

    Oppose bigoted birther morons with asinine political agendas.

    If you’re still confused about where you are, perhaps this will help you:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/visitor-guide/

  213. avatar
    Thinker June 5, 2013 at 9:21 am #

    Colin: I had a professor in graduate school who once said, “If I had more time, I’d write a shorter paper.” I have a sense that you only have a couple of well-written sentences worth of stuff to say, but are of the impression that your point will seem more sophisticated if you use (and misuse) lots of pompous sounding words. You are incorrect.

    You say that you ‘defamed’ and ‘desecrated’ the Bush Administration. Do you know what those words mean? Statements that are true can’t be defamatory, by definition. If you ‘defamed’ the Bush administration, then your statements must have been false. If you are making false statements, then you must not be the fighter for truth that you seem to think you are. And if you ‘desecrated’ the Bush Administration, that means that you believed that it was sacred because you can’t desecrate non-sacred things. That’s part of the definition of the word.

    Sheesh. Get rid of the thesaurus and get to the point.

  214. avatar
    Majority Will June 5, 2013 at 9:29 am #

    Thinker:
    Colin: I had a professor in graduate school who once said, “If I had more time, I’d write a shorter paper.” I have a sense that you only have a couple of well-written sentences worth of stuff to say, but are of the impression that your point will seem more sophisticated if you use (and misuse) lots of pompous sounding words. You are incorrect.

    You say that you ‘defamed’ and ‘desecrated’ the Bush Administration. Do you know what those words mean? Statements that are true can’t be defamatory, by definition. If you ‘defamed’ the Bush administration, then your statements must have been false. If you are making false statements, then you must not be the fighter for truth that you seem to think you are. And if you ‘desecrated’ the Bush Administration, that means that you believed that it was sacred because you can’t desecrate non-sacred things. That’s part of the definition of the word.

    Sheesh. Get rid of the thesaurus and get to the point.

    Eschew obfuscation. Espouse elucidation.

    Or as Mark Twain explained in his essay on the Literary Offenses of James Fenimore Cooper:

    The author should:

    Say what he is proposing to say, not merely come near it.

    Use the right word, not its second cousin.

    Eschew surplusage.

    Not omit necessary details.

    Avoid slovenliness of form.

    Use good grammar.

    Employ a simple, straightforward style.

  215. avatar
    Arthur June 5, 2013 at 10:18 am #

    Thinker: Sheesh. Get rid of the thesaurus and get to the point.

    Exactly. Writers have an obligation to be clear first, and stylish second–especially when their sense of style is little more than a salad of words, tossed without dressing.

  216. avatar
    The Magic M June 5, 2013 at 10:32 am #

    Hermitian: So you don’t really know whether Obama had all of his personal records that were held by the Federal Government in Jan 2009 sealed immediately?

    The EO you people love to refer to doesn’t seal them, for starters.

    So now you’re claiming “but there may be some super duper secret EO that seals them” and then shift the burden of proof by stating “how can you be sure no such super duper secret EO exists”?

    Well, that’s quite far down the rabbit hole, but it’s a typical conspiracy believer stance – if there’s no proof for what they claim, they resort to “the proof is secret” and claim it’s now on the sane world to prove no such secret proof exists.

    I’ve seen that from the cranks in my country who claim we’re still occupied and not a sovereign nation. First they claimed this was part of the Hague Convention, and when challenged to provide the exact quote, they moved the goalposts to “it’s in a secret supplemental protocol to the Hague Convention” – a protocol no-one, including the cranks, has ever seen or heard of.

  217. avatar
    Yoda June 5, 2013 at 10:33 am #

    Arthur: Exactly. Writers have an obligation to be clear first, and stylish second–especially when their sense of style is little more than a salad of words, tossed without dressing.

    I once wrote a legal brief that was 25 pages long only to find out that the judge had placed a 15 page limit on the brief. I was panicked, I didn’t think that there was any way to cut 40% of the brief out without compromising the argument. Boy was I wrong. When I set out to cut out every word that was not absolutely necessary, I found that the brief was cleaner, crisper without any redundency and unnecessary fluff. Overall it was much better and easier to read.

  218. avatar
    Majority Will June 5, 2013 at 11:13 am #

    Yoda: I once wrote a legal brief that was 25 pages long only to find out that the judge had placed a 15 page limit on the brief.I was panicked, I didn’t think that there was any way to cut 40% of the brief out without compromising the argument.Boy was I wrong.When I set out to cut out every word that was not absolutely necessary, I found that the brief was cleaner, crisper without any redundency and unnecessary fluff.Overall it was much better and easier to read.

    Colin could have posted a much clearer three word post that said, “I am confused.”

  219. avatar
    Arthur June 5, 2013 at 11:26 am #

    Yoda: I once wrote a legal brief that was 25 pages long only to find out that the judge had placed a 15 page limit on the brief.

    Had you been a bither attorney, you probably would have just changed the font size from 12 to 9 and added a Photoshopped image of the judge in a clown suit.

  220. avatar
    Yoda June 5, 2013 at 11:32 am #

    Arthur: Had you been a bither attorney, you probably would have just changed the font size from 12 to 9 and added a Photoshopped image of the judge in a clown suit.

    One could do that, or reset the margins, if one ignored the rules on font sizes or margins.

    Of course, if I was a birther attorney I would have filed the 25 page brief, and the called the Judge a traitor for kicking it out or deleting the last ten pages because he was ignoring evidence and because he should automatically make an exception because of the greatness that is me and the importance of my argument.

    If I had to refile, I would then file the 15 pages and attach the last ten pages as a zibit to get around the 15 page rule and then laugh at how stupid and corrupt the judge is.

  221. avatar
    JD Reed June 5, 2013 at 11:33 am #

    NBC: Why would they respond to some foolish people who want to gain access to privileged information? And no, it is not privileged because he is President Obama, they are privileged because of privacy statutes.

    So you were wrong when you claimed a sealing order existed. No surprise there, as ignorance seems to be you main motivator.
    You let your hatred and fear guide you down a path of ignorance and ridicule. What a legacy…

    Do you not respect our laws?

    That was a rhetorical question btw…

    NBC, I appreciate your point of view here, and agree with it. But the way you posted it on this site makes it look like these were my sentiments, when in fact I was quoting David Farrar.

  222. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 5, 2013 at 12:19 pm #

    JD, it’s a bug in the quoting feature that has to be manually edited. Not intentional in any way, I’m sure. That’s why I try to find the original comment (or include enough of the response so that the provenance of the quote is clear)

  223. avatar
    Hermitian June 5, 2013 at 12:21 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: Let’s review my workflow for putting a picture on the internet:
    1. Open picture with compression software
    2. Compress picture (which saves it as a different file type with otherwise the same name)
    3. Open compressed file in a PDF viewer
    4. Review compressed file for legibility
    5. Save as… file with descriptive name (unless viewer does not have Save as… functionality, then I am forced to manually edit the name from the folder it is saved in)
    6. Upload to internet
    Steps 4 and 5 correspond to the use of Mac Preview (I don’t use Mac’s as they have a tendency to catch on fire or otherwise crash spectacularly in my presence – true story) in a manner that would cause the metadata to be overwritten (it also causes the metadata to be overwritten when done from Adobe Acrobat on Windows 7, btw). Scanned files do not have descriptive names, rather they have formatted names that typically include date and time stamps and sequential numbering. The White House PDF has a descriptive name, so if it was scanned like we have been told, it must have been renamed at some point. It should also be noted that this is just one of several plausible scenarios. For instance, using the Share feature in Preview to send the compressed file to the webmaster to be uploaded (you didn’t think the webmaster was the same guy who scanned it, did you? in a government bureaucracy?).

    I own a Canon MF5900 Series Multifunction which is installed as a network device in my LAN and is operated locally or remotely via my workstation.

    This MF Canon was supplied with bundled software including Canon MF Network Scan Utility, Canon MF Toolbox and Presto Page Manager 7. Additionally I also have Adobe Acrobat Pro XI. The Canon MF Network Scan Utility works with the Canon MF Toolbox or alternatively Presto Page Manager for scan directly to PDF including OCR. The Canon MF Network Scan Utility also directly interfaces with Acrobat.

    When file compression is required I scan directly to PDF using Adobe Acrobat. Of course Acrobat also does OCR. All of these programs can rename and/or Email the PDF. I can also directly upload the PDF to Scribd via IE 9 running on WIN 7 from the workstation.

    Scan to PDF + OCR + Optimize + Upload can all be accomplished in a few minutes.

    I also use PDF-Tools 4.0 which also has a scan to PDF tool along with PDF-XChange Viewer which also does OCR.

  224. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 5, 2013 at 12:44 pm #

    Hermitian: I own a Canon MF5900 Series Multifunction which is installed as a network device in my LAN and is operated locally or remotely via my workstation.

    This MF Canon was supplied with bundled software including Canon MF Network Scan Utility, Canon MF Toolbox and Presto Page Manager 7. Additionally I also have Adobe Acrobat Pro XI. The Canon MF Network Scan Utility works with the Canon MF Toolbox or alternatively Presto Page Manager for scan directly to PDF including OCR. The Canon MF Network Scan Utility also directly interfaces with Acrobat.

    When file compression is required I scan directly to PDF using Adobe Acrobat. Of course Acrobat also does OCR. All of these programs can rename and/or Email the PDF. I can also directly upload the PDF to Scribd via IE 9 running on WIN 7 from the workstation.

    Scan to PDF + OCR + Optimize + Upload can all be accomplished in a few minutes.

    I also use PDF-Tools 4.0 which also has a scan to PDF tool along with PDF-XChange Viewer which also does OCR.

    Good for you. I don’t.

  225. avatar
    Majority Will June 5, 2013 at 1:10 pm #

    For scanning to PDF, I use Mac OS X and Preview like the White House.

  226. avatar
    NBC June 5, 2013 at 1:18 pm #

    JD Reed: NBC, I appreciate your point of view here, and agree with it. But the way you posted it on this site makes it look like these were my sentiments, when in fact I was quoting David Farrar.

    I apologize, sometimes the quoting on the site is not perfect and I should verify the blockquotes that the software inserts.

    Again, I do apologize, my response was meant from our friend David Farrar.

  227. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 5, 2013 at 1:18 pm #

    I should point out that Xerox owns the patent I cited earlier. It is quite possible that a recent Xerox machine would have that compression type available on-board, which would allow Preview to act as the scanning/sending software.

    But again, moot point.

  228. avatar
    NBC June 5, 2013 at 1:48 pm #

    There are various OCR/scanning solutions out there that can be used to restore the document into all its elements. I can create tables from scanned data, it can restore text and so on.
    The compression artifacts include separation of foreground and background layers, JBIG2 lossy compression (which generates identical letters for close matches). However, it is also clear that OS/X was used to generate the PDF file in the last step of the workflow. Probably to remove the metadata generated. The problem with this step is that it removes much of the evidence as to what software has touched the document. Still we see plenty of evidence of algorithmic compression.

    1. All layers align on 8 bit boundaries
    2. Letters which appear non identical on the AP scan are represented by JBIG2 like compression
    3. Incomplete separation of foreground and background. Especially where text touches the boundaries of lines or other text.
    4. The ghosting, or appearance of color behind the lifted text comes from JPEG filling in the unknown color with an average. Again, this has been well documented

    Some people may see these artifacts as generated by humans, but that makes no sense compared to the algorithmic approaches.

    For instance, the alignment of layers is unlikely to have happened by chance alone, and for a human to calculate what offset to use is somewhat incredible.

    Why the Posse is so quick to reject a far more likely and reasonable explanation, in light of what is known, is beyond me. Sufficient to say, their work will never pass the smell test in court. But it may serve to impress people who dislike our President, whose bias will allow them to abandon common sense and reason.

    And of course, we know that the ‘fraudulent/compressed’ PDF matches the original in all relevant manners.

    Not much of an ‘investigation’. I can understand why Arpaio may not want to put his signature to any affidavit… And why private citizen Zullo and his MCSO Cold Case Posse non-profit are doing their rounds with anti-Obama “forces”.

    Don’t they realize that they are just making midterm elections more likely to be a win for our president?…

  229. avatar
    Hermitian June 5, 2013 at 1:53 pm #

    “The Blaze
    “Politics
    “Barack Obama: The Ghost of Columbia University
    “Jun. 4, 2013 1:31pm”

    http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/barack-obama-the-ghost-of-columbia-university/comment-page-6/

    Obama skipped his 30th reunion at Columbia…and nobody missed him !

  230. avatar
    Hermitian June 5, 2013 at 2:01 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: I should point out that Xerox owns the patent I cited earlier. It is quite possible that a recent Xerox machine would have that compression type available on-board, which would allow Preview to act as the scanning/sending software.
    But again, moot point.

    My Canon MF was supplied with software for both WIN 7 and MAC OS. Presumably Preview would not be needed for a MAC with the bundled software installed.

  231. avatar
    Monkey Boy June 5, 2013 at 2:08 pm #

    Hermitian: You mean the certified copies that the HDOH purportedly produced.These have never been seen by the public.So the existence and content of these purported copies is unknown.

    Monkey Boy: So, tell us Hermie, which Presidents’ birth certifications have you seen? Held in your hand and felt the seal? Reagan’s? Eisenhower’s? Either Bushs’?Which ones?

    The voluble Hermie disappears and reappears but remains mute concerning this question.

  232. avatar
    gorefan June 5, 2013 at 2:15 pm #

    NBC: The compression artifacts include separation of foreground and background layers,

    Professor de Queiroz wrote this at John Woodman’s site,

    “I took a birth certificate which has a similar background pattern, scanned and compressed using an older DjVu tool. It has shown the same problems as POBC, like text letters that were missed and sent to background, and multiple text styles. It didn’t have halo, though, because its algorithm decided to obliterate the whole background pattern. Perhaps if I had time to toy around with packages and parameters I might find something very close to what was used to generate the document shown by the WH, but I unfortunately do not have the time right now.”

    http://www.obamabirthbook.com/http:/www.obamabirthbook.com/2012/09/genuine-world-class-computer-expert-evaluates-obamas-birth-certificate-pdf/

  233. avatar
    Monkey Boy June 5, 2013 at 2:20 pm #

    NBC:
    There are various OCR/scanning solutions out there that can be used to restore the document into all its elements. I can create tables from scanned data, it can restore text and so on.
    The compression artifacts include separation of foreground and background layers, JBIG2 lossy compression (which generates identical letters for close matches). However, it is also clear that OS/X was used to generate the PDF file in the last step of the workflow. Probably to remove the metadata generated. The problem with this step is that it removes much of the evidence as to what software has touched the document. Still we see plenty of evidence of algorithmic compression.

    1. All layers align on 8 bit boundaries
    2. Letters which appear non identical on the AP scan are represented by JBIG2 like compression
    3. Incomplete separation of foreground and background. Especially where text touches the boundaries of lines or other text.
    4. The ghosting, or appearance of color behind the lifted text comes from JPEG filling in the unknown color with an average. Again, this has been well documented

    Some people may see these artifacts as generated by humans, but that makes no sense compared to the algorithmic approaches.

    For instance, the alignment of layers is unlikely to have happened by chance alone, and for a human to calculate what offset to use is somewhat incredible.

    Why the Posse is so quick to reject a far more likely and reasonable explanation, in light of what is known, is beyond me. Sufficient to say, their work will never pass the smell test in court. But it may serve to impress people who dislike our President, whose bias will allow them to abandon common sense and reason.

    And of course, we know that the ‘fraudulent/compressed’ PDF matches the original in all relevant manners.

    Not much of an ‘investigation’. I can understand why Arpaio may not want to put his signature to any affidavit… And why private citizen Zullo and his MCSO Cold Case Posse non-profit are doing their rounds with anti-Obama “forces”.

    Don’t they realize that they are just making midterm elections more likely to be a win for our president?…

    Many unfortunate electrons have perished addressing these foolish assertions. Why bother to engage the utter stupidity when the PDFs have no legal significance? Like Zullo concerning Corsi’s BS, just say that the PDFs are for informational purposes only. Challenge the birthers to impeach the certified document.

    Even if birther idiots could prove that the PDFs are 100% fabricated (of course, they are not–and they can’t), the certified document would still be genuine because Hawaii says so.

  234. avatar
    NBC June 5, 2013 at 2:34 pm #

    gorefan: Professor de Queiroz wrote this at John Woodman’s site,

    Indeed… But but they tried 1200 different ways… covering a small area of the parameter space… Proving a negative can be such a ****. Instead one should look at the likelihood that such a feature was created by chance, by intelligence or by an algorithm.

    I’d say that most artifacts make far more sense in light of an algorithm rather than a forger…

    Which is why no prosecutor will likely touch these ‘findings’ as they fail to establish a sufficient foundation beyond speculation.

    And which explains why the non-profit MCSO CCP is now pursuing Congress…

    Makes a lot of sense…

  235. avatar
    NBC June 5, 2013 at 2:36 pm #

    Monkey Boy: Even if birther idiots could prove that the PDFs are 100% fabricated (of course, they are not–and they can’t), the certified document would still be genuine because Hawaii says so.

    They are not even getting anywhere close to this. They point to artifacts and claim, without any logic or reason, that these artifacts show evidence of forgery, without being able to rule out algorithmic processes, which I have shown could create most if not all of the artifacts. That’s quite a standard they failed to overcome.

    No prosecutor would ever touch such a ‘report’ which fails in so many places…

  236. avatar
    NBC June 5, 2013 at 2:45 pm #

    I am continuously amazed at how the MCSO CCP non-profit and its directors appear to be impeaching their own ‘experts’ and ‘findings’.

    Most recently, the observed how they finally found a document examiner willing to attest to something… After trying more than 200 different examiners to do the same…

    They initially claimed that it was all part of a criminal ‘investigation’ but failed to explain that the prosecutors were not really interested in the ‘evidence’. They rejected to help Orly in a civil case, only to try to piggy back on another civil case which, by virtue of being an appeal, can not rely on new ‘evidence’ being introduced. So they continue to impeach their own ‘evidence’.

    Now we see them move on toward Congress and a few Sheriffs. One of whom appears to be impressed by the findings but it would not be the first time he would shoot himself in the foot (or was it in the hand :-))

    Now KBOA is claiming that they are accepting her evidence, effectively impeaching their own credibility even more. Although KBOA insists that she only gave the evidence that is 100% proven.

    ROTFL…

    Is it just me or are these people intent on losing at every single step… Just when it appears that there is a ray of hope, the squash it…

    And with it, they also attempt to squash any arguments and cases filed by their ‘opponents’ such as Orly…

    They are making our lives too boring, really…

  237. avatar
    Hermitian June 5, 2013 at 2:47 pm #

    NBC: There are various OCR/scanning solutions out there that can be used to restore the document into all its elements. I can create tables from scanned data, it can restore text and so on.
    The compression artifacts include separation of foreground and background layers, JBIG2 lossy compression (which generates identical letters for close matches). However, it is also clear that OS/X was used to generate the PDF file in the last step of the workflow. Probably to remove the metadata generated. The problem with this step is that it removes much of the evidence as to what software has touched the document. Still we see plenty of evidence of algorithmic compression.
    1. All layers align on 8 bit boundaries
    2. Letters which appear non identical on the AP scan are represented by JBIG2 like compression
    3. Incomplete separation of foreground and background. Especially where text touches the boundaries of lines or other text.
    4. The ghosting, or appearance of color behind the lifted text comes from JPEG filling in the unknown color with an average. Again, this has been well documented
    Some people may see these artifacts as generated by humans, but that makes no sense compared to the algorithmic approaches.
    For instance, the alignment of layers is unlikely to have happened by chance alone, and for a human to calculate what offset to use is somewhat incredible.

    From Woodman’s inactive site:

    “nbc says:
    August 27, 2012 at 11:01 pm
    Yes, for some reason, the top and right side are aligned with 8×8 boundaries, while the bottom and left are aligned with the bitmap. This means that on these sides the bitmap borders the border while there is space on the right and top side. I have to think about the nature of the algorithm but this is a good find by gsgs
    ——————————————————————————————————————
    nbc says:
    August 27, 2012 at 11:03 pm
    This was independent of the 8×8 blocks used for the DCT compression, though. To match that alignment we would need 16×16-blocks for the text-layers because of the double-resolution, but it doesn’t align to 16×16
    But the segmentation was probably done on the 300dpi in 8×8 blocks and then the jpeg was subsampled to 150dpi.
    And yes, they do not align to 16×16.
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    That was then — this is now.

    Apparently !

  238. avatar
    gorefan June 5, 2013 at 3:06 pm #

    NBC: One of whom appears to be impressed by the findings

    They now have a second ex-sheriff. Mack says he is now a believer and it’s based on two things – that the pdf has different typewriter fonts and the certification number is out of sequence.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yxaJm_relXc

    6:00
    “But they failed in two huge ways. And the biggest one I would say is they did not use the same type of font or typewriter font that was used back in the 60s, in 1961 or 1962 whenever this document was suppose to have been made or originated.”

    9:12
    “Yes, the chronology of the numbers system used back then is out of sequence>”

    He may as well have said it was because of a travel pan to Pakistan back in the 1980s.

  239. avatar
    NBC June 5, 2013 at 3:44 pm #

    Well ex-law enforcement office Mack never really impressed me as a very smart person. His comments just serve to verify my initial thoughts as accurate.

    So the good news is that the issue is continuing to embarrass the Republicans… That’s good… We can always rely on the tea party to do their job…

  240. avatar
    G June 5, 2013 at 4:57 pm #

    In addition to what everyone else has already pointed out about your nonsense and silly writing style, you keep hyperventilating in your hyperbole, which instantly pegs you as a non-serious piss-pants.

    Seriously dude, there are tons of examples of real tyrants and despots that have reigned in the world. No matter what you or others may think about individual administrations of American presidents, past or present; none of them have come anywhere near actual “tyranny” or “despotism”. Plagued to various degrees with incompetence, corruption and controversial decisions and statements yes. But that’s about it.

    A word of advice: learn the lessons of The Boy Who Cried Wolf and Chicken Little next time.

    Colin Foote: And, it will be because you chose to align yourself with despotism instead of the truth.

  241. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 5, 2013 at 6:49 pm #

    Hermitian: That was then — this is now.

    Apparently !

    Congratulations, Hermie, you’ve caught NBC saying essentially the same thing nine months apart!

    #birtherscantread

  242. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 5, 2013 at 7:02 pm #

    Hermitian:
    “The Blaze
    “Politics
    “Barack Obama: The Ghost of Columbia University
    “Jun. 4, 2013 1:31pm”

    http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/barack-obama-the-ghost-of-columbia-university/comment-page-6/

    Obama skipped his 30th reunion at Columbia…and nobody missed him !

    It appears the right hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing at The Blaze. From last August a piece titled “5 Facts We Know About Obama’s College Years”:

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/08/08/5-facts-we-know-about-obamas-college-years/

    So, Herm, which story do you believe?

  243. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 5, 2013 at 7:54 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: I also use PDF-Tools 4.0 which also has a scan to PDF tool along with PDF-XChange Viewer which also does OCR.

    But you said that your Canon scanner does scan to PDF and OCR. Therefore, it is impossible that you would also use PDF-Tools or PDF-XChange Viewer, right?

  244. avatar
    JD Reed June 5, 2013 at 8:34 pm #

    Hermey, you might have more credibility on highly technical things, which you discuss in the post about physical characteristics of birth certificates, if you had not abjectly failed to state the truth on matters where the facts are simple enough to grasp by a reasonably intelligent person with good Internet search skills, i.e., the phony “Obama sealed his records” meme.
    Also notice that you’ve signed on to Wayne Allen Root’s “noboby remembers Obama at Columbia.” Root, too, deceptively in his little piece, mentioned the sealed records, asking rhetorically why they were sealed. It’s a dishonest question because the president’s records are sealed for the same reason mine, Doc’s and yours are also — privacy laws.
    When you’ve discredited yourself, the long slog back to redemptioni surely includes scruplulously refusing to subscribe to what you know is false or misleading.
    Don’t you think?

  245. avatar
    Hermitian June 5, 2013 at 9:51 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: But you said that your Canon scanner does scan to PDF and OCR. Therefore, it is impossible that you would also use PDF-Tools or PDF-XChange Viewer, right?

    The choice of which program to use depends on the total job to be accomplished. If the job involves a single page or two I use either MF Toolbox or Presto Page Manager. When other Adobe programs (such as Illustrator or Photoshop) are required I scan to Acrobat. For jobs that require several of the PDF Tools I use the Scan Direct Tool in PDF Tools. The PDF files produced by each PDF Tool open in PDF XChange PRO. I also occasionally use Corel PDF fusion when I need to assemble a many-page PDF document from many smaller documents of different file formats.

  246. avatar
    Hermitian June 5, 2013 at 10:00 pm #

    JD Reed: the president’s records are sealed for the same reason mine, Doc’s and yours are also — privacy laws.

    But you Obots swear that the WH LFCOLB PDF is an exact copy of Obama’s original hospital generated birth certificate. Thus you claim that Obama has released his LFCOLB. Therefore the privacy of his original birth certificate should not be an issue.

  247. avatar
    Monkey Boy June 6, 2013 at 4:20 am #

    Yoo-hoo, Hermy…there is a question on the board for you!

    Inquiring minds want to know.

  248. avatar
    The Magic M June 6, 2013 at 5:13 am #

    NBC: Is it just me or are these people intent on losing at every single step… Just when it appears that there is a ray of hope, the squash it…

    I’ve said this numerous times, first about Orly, then about others such as Apuzzo or Klayman.

    Just take all the botched service attempts. I think it unfathomable that someone such as Klayman who’s been a non-birther lawyer for decades suddenly “forgets” how to properly serve a defendant; same with Apuzzo who managed it in his first case but not in any subsequent case.

    NBC: I’d say that most artifacts make far more sense in light of an algorithm rather than a forger…

    Another thing I never understood is why even those who could be deemed non-conspiracists (and who are in it for other purposes) suddenly espouse the typical conspiracist behaviour of “never change your theory in the face of evidence to the contrary”.
    Would it have hurt Zullo to claim that since most of the evidence is incompatible with the “human forger” theory, another theory would be that the BC was forged using advanced software that automatically combined stuff from differen birth certificates?
    That theory would “refute” most claims that the “anomalies” are something no human forger would do (e.g. store a rotated version of the stamp) and tie into the “Obama used his limitless resources to have the forgery created” story that would be believable to just about every wingnut and even some sane people.
    But no, just like if he had been on the birther train since 2008, he slavishly holds on to version 0.0.1 of birtherism as if it was holy scripture.

    Now that of course points to insanity, but does the tendency to foot-gun themselves also have a psychological explanation? Is it the subconscious fear that if they don’t sabotage their own case, they would have to face the fact it has no legs to stand on? Or is it conscious strategy, as in “if our cases ever *were* tried on the merits, people would soon see there is nothing there, so we’d rather they fail on procedural grounds which we can always spin as ‘they were scared to allow our merits to be heard’”?

  249. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 6, 2013 at 11:09 am #

    Hermitian: Therefore the privacy of his original birth certificate should not be an issue.

    So what is your point, Herm?

    Are you suggesting that the original versions of critical records should be turned over to anyone who wants to see them once a certified copy – such as Obama’s birth certificate – has been made public?

  250. avatar
    dunstvangeet June 6, 2013 at 11:20 am #

    Hermitian: But you Obots swear that the WH LFCOLB PDF is an exact copy of Obama’s original hospital generated birth certificate.Thus you claim that Obama has released his LFCOLB.Therefore the privacy of his original birth certificate should not be an issue.

    And we’ve told you time and time again, the law doesn’t allow you to get it…

    I know that birthers have people that were born in Hawaii. Here’s an experiment. Have one of those people walk into the Hawaii Department of Health, and ask them to ask for access to the vault that contains their original, see what they state.

  251. avatar
    Majority Will June 6, 2013 at 11:26 am #

    “But you Obots swear that the WH LFCOLB PDF is an exact copy . . .”

    Typical obtuse and asinine drivel from a birther bigot.

    NO for the 15,248,978th time, the U.S. state of Hawaii verifies and stands by the veracity of the information on their birth records but anti-American birther lunatics with ZERO RESPECT for our laws and the U.S. legal system demand special treatment above the law to satisfy their paranoid delusions, racist agenda and political smear campaign.

    Such a sad and pathetic dolt.

  252. avatar
    bovril June 6, 2013 at 11:28 am #

    Now Hermie dear

    Still waiting for your acknowledgement that Zullo is not actually a “law man”

    Whilst waiting on that, do tell, the Constitutionally sufficient custodian of records at the HDoH has, on multiple occasions confirmed that the data on the BC’s, derived from the records of the HDoH are wholly correct and accurate.

    In which case EXACTLY what is it that is your problem?

    The records gave been stated and confirmed as accurate
    The data on the BC has been confirmed in the legal manner and format as matching the data on record
    The records state the President was born in Hawai’i
    The President is over 35 years of age
    The President has no record of ever relinquishing his US citizenship
    The President has been a resident of the USA, both consecutively and accumulatively for more than 14 years
    The President recently won the majority of the Electoral (and popular) vote
    The Presidents EC votes were counted and affirmed as accurate by Senate and Congress
    No objection from either Senate or Congress were raised about the EC vote or the count
    No objections were raised from either Senate or Congress on the validity of the vote
    The President has been sworn in

    So, EXACTLY what is the problem?

  253. avatar
    Daniel June 6, 2013 at 11:41 am #

    Hermitian: But you Obots swear that the WH LFCOLB PDF is an exact copy of Obama’s original hospital generated birth certificate.Thus you claim that Obama has released his LFCOLB.Therefore the privacy of his original birth certificate should not be an issue.

    Ok We’re going to try this again, and this time we’ll type slowly, and use small words, OK?

    The original in the vault copy does NOT belong to Obama. He has NO control over it, WHATSOEVER. He CANNOT release it. It’s NOT his. Are we clear on that?

    The original in the vault copy belongs to the HDOH. The HDOH is bound by these things called laws, which say who can, and cannot, put eyeballs and fingers on that document. NOTHING Obama does with his certified copy changes anything to do with the original document. Obama can pay for and send a certified copy to every household in America and HDOH will still be bound by the laws that dictate who they can release to. Obama CANNOT change those laws. Birthers CANNOT change those laws. HDOH CANNOT change those laws.

    Now, that’s about as simple as I can make it. If you still have trouble understanding, maybe we should start with a few “Dick and Jane” books to build up your reading comprehension, before we tackle this subject which is obviously too hard for you?

  254. avatar
    Hermitian June 6, 2013 at 12:34 pm #

    Daniel: Hermitian: But you Obots swear that the WH LFCOLB PDF is an exact copy of Obama’s original hospital generated birth certificate.Thus you claim that Obama has released his LFCOLB.Therefore the privacy of his original birth certificate should not be an issue.

    Ok We’re going to try this again, and this time we’ll type slowly, and use small words, OK?
    The original in the vault copy does NOT belong to Obama. He has NO control over it, WHATSOEVER. He CANNOT release it. It’s NOT his. Are we clear on that?
    The original in the vault copy belongs to the HDOH. The HDOH is bound by these things called laws, which say who can, and cannot, put eyeballs and fingers on that document. NOTHING Obama does with his certified copy changes anything to do with the original document. Obama can pay for and send a certified copy to every household in America and HDOH will still be bound by the laws that dictate who they can release to. Obama CANNOT change those laws. Birthers CANNOT change those laws. HDOH CANNOT change those laws.

    So you claim that Obama is powerless to cause the State of Hawaii to release his original hospital-generated birth certificate for forensic examination because of a state privacy law. And you also claim that Obama is the legitimate, currently sitting President of the United States.

    Do you have any appreciation how silly your claims are, given that you also claim that Obama was able to easily obtain a waiver from the HDOH to obtain a certified copy of his LFCOLB simply by asking. This he did in spite of the purported standing policy of the HDOH against providing certified copies of the original long-form hospital-generated birth certificate.

    So you are claiming that Obama can easily get exceptions to HDOH regulations but not Hawaii laws in spite of the fact that the said waiver required a legal interpretation of the same Hawaii law.

    And after all this nonsense, Obama has not released even one of the certified copies to the public.

    Instead his attorneys have produced multiple different PDF images to various courts.

  255. avatar
    Kiwiwriter June 6, 2013 at 12:46 pm #

    Do you really believe that Zullo would lie about his evidence to a room full of retired and active law enforcement professionals?

    Thieves, rogues, and con men lie to active-duty law enforcement professionals all the time.

  256. avatar
    Kiwiwriter June 6, 2013 at 12:51 pm #

    Hermitian: Yep! That Bill Ayers is one a hell ofa writer!He’s also an accomplished bomb maker.

    Way to beat up another discredited straw man.

  257. avatar
    Thomas Brown June 6, 2013 at 3:18 pm #

    Burden of proof, Hermie. Burden of proof.

    You must prove Obama was born elsewhere. You must prove Ayers wrote Obama’s books. Anyone can assert anything. The only think that counts is proof, and you have zero.

    A four-year-old can assert that unicorns are real and fart rainbows. That doesn’t make it so. Without proof, you don’t deserve to be taken any more seriously than that four-year-old.

  258. avatar
    nbc June 6, 2013 at 6:00 pm #

    Hermitian: But you Obots swear that the WH LFCOLB PDF is an exact copy of Obama’s original hospital generated birth certificate. Thus you claim that Obama has released his LFCOLB. Therefore the privacy of his original birth certificate should not be an issue.

    It’s not that we swear, it’s that the Department of Health has sworn to this. As to privacy, you need to understand that privacy is not waived by the public display of the document

    Such fool you are… And I mean that in the nicest meaning of the word.

  259. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 6, 2013 at 6:41 pm #

    I have never said this, and I think that calling it a “privacy law” is not supported by the legislation and its context. If anything, it is an identity theft protection law.

    That said, the law is quite specific as to whom a certified copy can be given. You’re not on the list. And anyhow, why should a bunch of nut cases, with nothing but a jaundiced and overactive imagination, be given access to the time of day, much less Obama’s birth certificate.

    Hermitian: So you claim that Obama is powerless to cause the State of Hawaii to release his original hospital-generated birth certificate for forensic examination because of a state privacy law.

  260. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 6, 2013 at 6:45 pm #

    I see the most likely scenario as someone scanning the document to PDF using the hardware of a multi-function scanner/printer. It might even have been done by Obama’s attorney’s office. Then the web guy using a Mac opened the file with preview, verified that it looked right, and then saved with a descriptive name and copied it to the web site.

    Isn’t that how PDF documents get on the web in big offices? This is not rocket science.

    W. Kevin Vicklund: But you said that your Canon scanner does scan to PDF and OCR. Therefore, it is impossible that you would also use PDF-Tools or PDF-XChange Viewer, right?

  261. avatar
    sfjeff June 6, 2013 at 7:08 pm #

    Daniel: If you still have trouble understanding, maybe we should start with a few “Dick and Jane” books to build up your reading comprehension, before we tackle this subject which is obviously too hard for you?

    Daniel- looks like Hermie needs you to point him towards those Dick and Jane books….

  262. avatar
    sfjeff June 6, 2013 at 7:16 pm #

    Hermitian:P>And after all this nonsense, Obama has not released even one of the certified copies to the public.>

    President Barack Obama has released two certified copies of his original birth certificate to the public.

    They were seen and handled by the press- i.e. the public in 2011.

    Who reported that fact to the rest to the rest of the public.

    What we do know is that more of the U.S. public has seen actual certified copies of President Barack Obama birth certificate than has seen and handled any other President’s actual certified copy.

    And while you dance around that- the State of Hawaii has confirmed that what was released by the White House was what they had sent him.

    And the State of Hawaii has repeatedly and consistantly confirmed that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Birthers will always find some excuse why this particular man cannot possibly be President- no matter how many birth certificates, no matter how many confirmations from Hawaii-

    none of it matters- you decided in 2008 he couldn’t possibly be President and are convinced he still can’t be.

    Which is really rather pathetic.

  263. avatar
    Majority Will June 6, 2013 at 7:22 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I see the most likely scenario as someone scanning the document to PDF using the hardware of a multi-function scanner/printer. It might even have been done by Obama’s attorney’s office. Then the web guy using a Mac opened the file with preview, verified that it looked right, and then saved with a descriptive name and copied it to the web site.

    Isn’t that how PDF documents get on the web in big offices? This is not rocket science.

    Yes.

  264. avatar
    Thinker June 6, 2013 at 7:44 pm #

    Hermi: Whatever the law says, I think a part of the reason that you and Orly Taitz and all your birferstani compatriots will not see a certified copy of President Obama’s birth certificate until it is on display in his presidential library is because you are birfers. That means that you ignore evidence that does not support your conspiracy theories. You misconstrue reality to make it fit your conspiracy theories. You pretend to be experts in stuff that you don’t know much about. You don’t understand laws. You parse things so finely that they lose all the characteristics of the whole object. You infer meaningful relationships from spurious correlations. You move the goalposts over and over and over again.

    While President Obama himself probably does not realize how unreasonable birfers are, I’m sure there are a few people in the White House and in his campaign who have advised him that there is no possible way for him to satisfy birfers and it’s silly to even try. In releasing the LFBC, I don’t think he or his advisors expected to satisfy birfers. I think they expected to satisfy sane people and some teabaggers (who I do not put in the category of sane people). And that’s what happened.

  265. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 6, 2013 at 8:10 pm #

    Hermitian: And after all this nonsense, Obama has not released even one of the certified copies to the public.

    Let’s see if we can narrow this down a little. Right now the U.S. population is fast approaching 316-million people – http://www.census.gov/popclock/ – so for the sake of discussion (and hoping to get a response out of you) just how many certified copies of his birth certificate would you like to see Obama release and to whom?

    And – again – for the sake of discussion (and hoping to get a response out of you) if you were to get one of the copies exactly what would you look for to satisfy your concerns?

  266. avatar
    JD Reed June 6, 2013 at 8:34 pm #

    Hermitian: But you Obots swear that the WH LFCOLB PDF is an exact copy of Obama’s original hospital generated birth certificate.Thus you claim that Obama has released his LFCOLB.Therefore the privacy of his original birth certificate should not be an issue.

    Just as a rhetorical question: If you were provided your own certified copy of the president’s birth certificate, and it matched up with the PDF posted by the White House with regard to information, signatures, and format — would you be satisfied?
    Because, remember, the certified copy is prima facie evidence.
    Would you be satisfied if a certified copy was provided to a court near you, and you were able to print out a PDF of the document from the White House website, and you looked at them side by side, and they looked the same?

  267. avatar
    Northland10 June 6, 2013 at 8:36 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I see the most likely scenario as someone scanning the document to PDF using the hardware of a multi-function scanner/printer. It might even have been done by Obama’s attorney’s office. Then the web guy using a Mac opened the file with preview, verified that it looked right, and then saved with a descriptive name and copied it to the web site.

    Isn’t that how PDF documents get on the web in big offices? This is not rocket science.

    That verifying step is important. You always need to check that it is not crooked, upside down, backward, illegible, or otherwise look like crap. In other words, verify that the scanned document has not been Taitzified.

  268. avatar
    Majority Will June 6, 2013 at 8:46 pm #

    JD Reed: Just as a rhetorical question: If you were provided your own certified copy of the president’s birth certificate, and it matched up with the PDF posted by the White House with regard to information, signatures, and format — would you be satisfied?
    Because, remember, the certified copy is prima facie evidence.Would you be satisfied if a certified copy was provided to a court near you, and you were able to print out a PDF of the document from the White House website, and you looked at them side by side, and they looked the same?

    Mocking the law is just a funny game to these birther bigots.

  269. avatar
    gorefan June 6, 2013 at 8:46 pm #

    nbc: As to privacy, you need to understand that privacy is not waived by the public display of the document

    Didn’t the Hawaii Appeals Court just say that in last weeks Wolf v Fuddy decision?

  270. avatar
    Benji Franklin June 6, 2013 at 8:51 pm #

    Hermitian: And after all this nonsense, Obama has not released even one of the certified copies to the public.

    Hermi?

    What kind of citizen are you to let this President get away without satisfying your every demand? You need to get yourself into a position that would allow you a chance at PAYBACK for what this uppity upstart has pretended to accomplish. Here’s an idea – debunk the myth that what he’s done is anything special!

    Why don’t you place your own untrue newspaper birth announcements in newspapers printed over 50 years ago, get yourself adopted by a foreign citizen (if you could shut up long enough) for the few minutes it takes to lose one’s Natural Born Citizenship in Hermi-World, get a college degree from a school you never attended, become an unremarkable attorney by graduating from Harvard Law School, become a United States Senator, and then learn how to read a teleprompter so you can become a two-term President of the United States of America and then you won’t be just a moronic troll on Doc’s site.

  271. avatar
    gorefan June 6, 2013 at 9:10 pm #

    The way hermaphrodite sucks up Internet rumors let’s hope he never googles “Obama’s alien bodyguard”. Apparently one of the reptilian guards forgot to use his cloaking device on the recent trip to Israel.

  272. avatar
    Keith June 6, 2013 at 9:20 pm #

    Hermitian: But you Obots swear that the WH LFCOLB PDF is an exact copy of Obama’s original hospital generated birth certificate.Thus you claim that Obama has released his LFCOLB.Therefore the privacy of his original birth certificate should not be an issue.

    Obama can do anything he likes with the certified BC paper document that the State of Hawai’i gives him on his request. He can scan it and publish it on the internet or set fire to it or put it on tour to all the State Capitals or lock it away in his safe or use it for toilet paper or anything he wants. Nothing that he does with that piece of paper affects the State’s responsibility for the preservation and protection of the original birth record.

    The State of Hawai’i CANNOT do anything it likes with the original birth record; it doesn’t matter what Obama does with his copy, the Hawai’i Department of Health is still bound by State and Federal law to protect that birth record. It can only produce copies for parties with ‘direct interest’ and must restrict physical access to authorized employees who need that access to carry out their lawfully mandated duties.

  273. avatar
    Rickey June 6, 2013 at 9:48 pm #

    Hermitian: But you Obots swear that the WH LFCOLB PDF is an exact copy of Obama’s original hospital generated birth certificate.Thus you claim that Obama has released his LFCOLB.Therefore the privacy of his original birth certificate should not be an issue.

    Let’s say that I scan my driver’s license and post it on this blog for anyone to see.

    You then print a copy, and send a letter to the DMV in my state asking for a certified copy of it on the grounds that I have waived my privacy rights.

    You know what DMV’s answer will be?

    A resounding NO.

    You’re not entitled to it, because there is a law which sets out who is entitled to see DMV records. And you’re not on the list.

    Welcome to the world of reality.

  274. avatar
    Keith June 6, 2013 at 9:50 pm #

    Hermitian: Do you have any appreciation how silly your claims are, given that you also claim that Obama was able to easily obtain a waiver from the HDOH to obtain a certified copy of his LFCOLB simply by asking.

    The key words here are “certified copy”. He did NOT get physical access to the original birth record in the Hawai’ian vault.

    This he did in spite of the purported standing policy of the HDOH against providing certified copies of the original long-form hospital-generated birth certificate

    It was NOT easy to get that non-standard form. He had to make a personal request to the Director, who has the authority, under Hawai’i State law to grant the waiver or, critically, deny the waiver. Clearly, the Director was more inclined to grant such a waiver to the President, than he would be for some other citizen. The reason that the States have ‘standard’ forms is so they don’t have to waste time and taxpayer money doing custom jobs for every citizen.
    .

    So you are claiming that Obama can easily get exceptions to HDOH regulations but not Hawaii laws in spite of the fact that the said waiver required a legal interpretation of the same Hawaii law.

    Yes. Exactly.

    Except that it is not an ‘interpretation of the same Hawai’i law’. It is specifically following Departmental regulations. The LAW specifies who has access to the physical document and who can receive copies. The REGULATIONS specify how that information is presented.

    Hawai’ian LAW does not allow anyone other than authorized personnel access to the original physical birth event record.

    Hawai’ian LAW does not allow anyone not identified in that LAW as an ‘interested party’ to obtain a BIrth Certificate.

    Hawai’ian LAW gives the Director of the DoH the authority to promulgate departmental REGULATIONS that establish procedures for adhering to the Hawai’ian LAW.

    DoH REGULATIONS specify the standard layout for producing Birth Certificates from the original birth record. In Hawai’i, the REGULATIONS define a standard layout that is a computer generated form (popularly known as a ‘Short Form’).

    DoH REGULATIONS allow the Director of the DoH to, upon request, grant (or deny) a waiver from the standard procedures. Notice that this is not a waiver from the LAW. Waivers must, by definition be very, very rare, or the process would be standard instead of non-standard. In this case, the President requested such a waiver and the Director saw fit to grant the waiver and a non-standard BC was produced directly from the original birth record (popularly known as a ‘Long Form).

    The Director would have been completely within his authority to say no, and the President of the United States could not have done anything about it. Of course, the Governor could have sought to replace him, but that would be a politically motivated decision, not a legally motivated decision.

  275. avatar
    The Magic M June 7, 2013 at 4:10 am #

    nbc: As to privacy, you need to understand that privacy is not waived by the public display of the document

    Even if it were, Hawaiian law does not have a waiver clause that would allow the state to release anything or grant access to the original if only the person in question “waived” their privacy, either directly or implicitly.

    The “privacy” argument is a red herring and allows birthers to make their silly arguments (that Obama “waived” his privacy, that public interest outweighs his privacy rights, that the President does not *have* any privacy rights etc.).
    But it’s simply wrong, including the argument from our side that Obama did not waive his privacy (because that would acknowledge that the law says anything about privacy).
    The vault document isn’t locked away for “privacy” reasons but simply because the law says so.

  276. avatar
    Hermitian June 7, 2013 at 8:30 am #

    The Magic M: nbc: As to privacy, you need to understand that privacy is not waived by the public display of the document
    Even if it were, Hawaiian law does not have a waiver clause that would allow the state to release anything or grant access to the original if only the person in question “waived” their privacy, either directly or implicitly.
    The “privacy” argument is a red herring and allows birthers to make their silly arguments (that Obama “waived” his privacy, that public interest outweighs his privacy rights, that the President does not *have* any privacy rights etc.).
    But it’s simply wrong, including the argument from our side that Obama did not waive his privacy (because that would acknowledge that the law says anything about privacy).
    The vault document isn’t locked away for “privacy” reasons but simply because the law says so.

    Your argument might carry some weight were it not for the fact that, under Hawaii law, law enforcement must obtain a court order before they can obtain a certified copy of any Birth Certificate. Hawaii is one of the few states that have this added restriction.

    What other reason than privacy would preclude law enforcement from accessing birth records without a court order?

    Obama could easily request a court to order a certified copy of his original hospital-generated birth certificate from the HDOH. This certified copy could be forensically examined in camera without releasing it to the public.

  277. avatar
    US Citizen June 7, 2013 at 11:41 am #

    Thinker: Thinker June 6, 2013 at 7:44 pm (Quote) #

    Hermi: …you ignore evidence that does not support your conspiracy theories. You misconstrue reality to make it fit your conspiracy theories. You pretend to be experts in stuff that you don’t know much about. You don’t understand laws. You parse things so finely that they lose all the characteristics of the whole object. You infer meaningful relationships from spurious correlations. You move the goalposts over and over and over again.

    This. Absolutely this.
    An excellent overview.

    When there’s a marked difference between “certificate” and “certification”, you know you’re wearing birther colored glasses.

  278. avatar
    Yoda June 7, 2013 at 11:53 am #

    Thinker: meaningful relationships from spurious correlations. You move the goalposts over and over and over again.

    While quite true, it goes further. People like Hermie not only ignore evidence that contradicts his conspiracy addled mind, said evidence becomes part of the conspiracy, as part of the coverup.

    For example, Birthers are so convinced that the President was born in Kenya, that when they announced that there was no record found of him being born there, birthers announced that this was evidence that the birth records had been stolen. I have never seen such self deluded, willfully ignorant people in my life.

    I have seen our government in action. It ain’t pulling off the greatest scam in the history of the world, involving untold number of people, judges, court officials, law clerks, HDOH health people, etc.

  279. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 7, 2013 at 11:54 am #

    Obama already obtained two certified copies of his original hospital-generated birth certificate from the HDOH. I fail to see what additional information you’re trying to get. The State of Hawaii has already verified that all the information on the White House PDF matches their files.

    What possible revelation could be obtained by examining a certified copy from the same agency. Are you seriously expecting any sane person to believe that Obama obtained a certified copy of his birth certificate from the State of Hawaii, and then forged a copy of it that has the same information as the original? You probably do because birthers are that irrational.

    Hermitian: Obama could easily request a court to order a certified copy of his original hospital-generated birth certificate from the HDOH.

  280. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 7, 2013 at 11:57 am #

    What part of “release to the public” is not already covered by showing the document to the entire White House press corps and letting them photograph it.

    Would you rather that they put it in the Smithsonian in a glass case? Seriously, you’re bonkers.

    Hermitian: And after all this nonsense, Obama has not released even one of the certified copies to the public.

  281. avatar
    Yoda June 7, 2013 at 12:03 pm #

    Hermitian: Your argument might carry some weight were it not for the fact that, under Hawaii law, law enforcement must obtain a court order before they can obtain a certified copy of any Birth Certificate. Hawaii is one of the few states that have this added restriction.What other reason than privacy would preclude law enforcement from accessing birth records without a court order?Obama could easily request a court to order a certified copy of his original hospital-generated birth certificate from the HDOH. This certified copy could be forensically examined in camera without releasing it to the public.

    One question Hermi, and this is a straight up honest question. Why should he? I am actually of the mindset that that he never should have released any version of the lfbc (other than to make a fool of Trump, of course), because it showed weakness. It was an abolutely unreasonable demand, especially after the certified copy of the COLB was released. If it had been me, I would have told you to pound sand. There is probably not a single anti birther who thought that it would shut you idiots up. And to the contrary, it only emboldened you to make ever more ridiculous demands. Did you see recently that someone filed a brief demanding the President’s DNA? Corsi already set up the next lie when he “reported” that a reliable source told him that the “regime” was looking for 1960s era materials so they could put a fake “original” into the official books.

    In all honesty, who the hell do birthers think they are? If you don’t like the President, tough. Grow up and get over it. I for one, do not want a President who is willing to cowtow to birther BS. Birther threats are nothing less than treason and/or sedition and you are attempting to blackmail the President.

    I speak only for myself, but I like to think that some others on here share my sentiments. Go to hell.

  282. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 7, 2013 at 12:13 pm #

    Hermitian: This certified copy could be forensically examined in camera without releasing it to the public.

    By whom? And what do you mean by “in camera”? In this contest it should mean in the judge’s chambers. If that’s the case please explain how an acceptable examination (to you and other birthers) could occur under those circumstances.

  283. avatar
    Majority Will June 7, 2013 at 12:24 pm #

    Yoda: One question Hermi, and this is a straight up honest question.Why should he?I am actually of the mindset that that he never should have released any version of the lfbc (other than to make a fool of Trump, of course), because it showed weakness.It was an abolutely unreasonable demand, especially after the certified copy of the COLB was released.If it had been me, I would have told you to pound sand.There is probably not a single anti birther who thought that it would shut you idiots up.And to the contrary, it only emboldened you to make ever more ridiculous demands.Did you see recently that someone filed a brief demanding the President’s DNA?Corsi already set up the next lie when he “reported” that a reliable source told him that the “regime” was looking for 1960s era materials so they could put a fake “original” into the official books.

    In all honesty, who the hell do birthers think they are?If you don’t like the President, tough.Grow up and get over it.I for one, do not want a President who is willing to cowtow to birther BS.Birther threats are nothing less than treason and/or sedition and you are attempting to blackmail the President.

    I speak only for myself, but I like to think that some others on here share my sentiments. Go to hell.

    Hear, hear.

  284. avatar
    Majority Will June 7, 2013 at 12:26 pm #

    Hermitian: Obama could easily request a court to order a certified copy of his original hospital-generated birth certificate from the HDOH.

    Go pound sand.

  285. avatar
    sfjeff June 7, 2013 at 12:32 pm #

    CarlOrcas: By whom? And what do you mean by “in camera”? In this contest it should mean in the judge’s chambers. If that’s the case please explain how an acceptable examination (to you and other birthers) could occur under those circumstances.

    Oh exactly- since every Judge who has ruled against Birthers has been called corrupt or worse afterwards by Birthers.

    The idea that they would accept any determination done in a Judge’s chambers is contradicted by history.

  286. avatar
    Yoda June 7, 2013 at 12:36 pm #

    sfjeff: Oh exactly- since every Judge who has ruled against Birthers has been called corrupt or worse afterwards by Birthers.The idea that they would accept any determination done in a Judge’s chambers is contradicted by history.

    Why not let James David Manning inspect it, after all he was the judge would presided over the Obama/Columbia Treason trial. I am certain that he would be objective.

  287. avatar
    Kiwiwriter June 7, 2013 at 1:23 pm #

    Look, it doesn’t matter for people like Hermitian, Orly, Butterdezillion, and the rest of these clowns.

    Even if Obama was to produce that birth certificate and hand the original over to Orly and her pals, along with an army of doctors and nurses who swear that they delivered him…along with eight dozen classmates from Columbia…and a dozen relatives to swear that he grew up where he grew up and was always an American citizen…

    It would NEVER be enough for these jerks. They cloak their absolute hatred of Obama in the false robe of pretending to be objective, patriotic, right-thinking Americans, merely protecting “the process.”

    The truth is that they loathe President Obama…for whatever reason suits them.

    Maybe it’s because he’s black.

    Maybe it’s because he comes from an interracial relationship, which is anathema to racists (never mind their history of bopping any black girl they could find, who would not or could not say “no”).

    Maybe it’s because he has an Arab-sounding middle name. Maybe it’s because he spent a lot of time in a Muslim country (Indonesia).

    Maybe it’s because his father came from Africa (and racists loathe Africa, except as a source of labor and minerals).

    Maybe it’s because he rose swiftly and effectively to political power (and racists hate it when somebody with a differing melanin content does so while they wallow in ignorance).

    Maybe it’s because he’s an articulate and well-spoken black man (and racists utterly loathe articulate and well-spoken black men. They prefer black men who only ask if anyone wants to buy drugs from them, or sing a song).

    Maybe it’s because he has a standard and fairly functional family (and racists hate it when black people have anything but a stereotypical dysfunctional family of single mothers, bedraggled grandmothers, screeching babies, absent fathers, drug-dealing boys, and sluttily-dressed daughters).

    Maybe it’s because he is a liberal Democrat, and racists and hard-line conservatives think that anyone further left than Francisco Franco is a card-carrying Communist, taking orders directly from Karl Marx, Satan, and the Learned Elders of Zion, hell-bent on destroying the entire world, through disease, nuclear warfare, and general tyranny.

    Maybe it’s because he got elected twice by fairly large-sized majorities as President of the United States, when racists are furious that anybody other than Rand Paul, Ted Nugent, or Alex Jones is not being elected president by 110 percent of the vote.

    Maybe it’s because he supported and pushed through programs that racists and hard-line conservatives hate, like Obamacare, which really isn’t anywhere near nationalized health, or wants to do something about the plague of gun violence in the United States. After all, hard-line conservatives and racists don’t think much of any science (except police science, computer engineering and weapons development), and heartily endorse gun violence as a means of settling disputes.

    But no matter what it is, what the issue is, how much proof there is, the Birthers will never be happy, never be satisfied, never admit, “Yeah, we were wrong, let’s drop this stupidity and find some common ground to address our chronic and acute crises.”

    Ronald Reagan’s last chief of staff, Richard Duberstein said it best: “The extreme right wing is never happy. It’s never satisfied.” They are professional whiners. They are nostalgic for a lost America that never really existed, even in the 1950s, the 1940s, the 1920s, or the 1830s. They’re nostalgic for the fuzzy vision they have of their own youth, when they were cooler than the generation before them and wiser than the generation after them.

    They will NEVER be happy with the truth, only with their own fantasies and nightmares — their idiotic “proofs” about the birth certificate and their dreams of county sheriffs looking like Rod Steiger hauling a tearful Obama in orange jumpsuit and shackles out of the White House to a chopping block and executioner on Pennsylvania Avenue.

    Even if a time traveler was to return these folks to their “good old days,” they would land back in 1957 or 1943 or 1847, and find the world in horrible shape, and not to their pleasure.

    Even if they were to all gather together, secede a chunk of Arizona from the Union, with the support of the rest of the American people, their nation would soon disintegrate into petty and major squabbling, and fall apart, defeated by paranoia, incompetence, and grand senses of personal entitlement.

    They are NEVER happy, and they are full of hate. That’s all that sustains them.

  288. avatar
    JPotter June 7, 2013 at 1:54 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Would you rather that they put it in the Smithsonian in a glass case?

    Right in the Nat’l Archives, right in the middle of the Rotunda for the Charters of Freedom.

    Make some heads go *pop* ;-)

  289. avatar
    Hermitian June 7, 2013 at 2:09 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Hermitian

    You still haven’t identified the compression software that produces eight 1-Bit monochrome layers and only one 8-Bit color layer. And the monochrome colors are different but none are Black.

  290. avatar
    Majority Will June 7, 2013 at 2:12 pm #

    Kiwiwriter:
    Look, it doesn’t matter for people like Hermitian, Orly, Butterdezillion, and the rest of these clowns.

    Even if Obama was to produce that birth certificate and hand the original over to Orly and her pals, along with an army of doctors and nurses who swear that they delivered him…along with eight dozen classmates from Columbia…and a dozen relatives to swear that he grew up where he grew up and was always an American citizen…

    It would NEVER be enough for these jerks. They cloak their absolute hatred of Obama in the false robe of pretending to be objective, patriotic, right-thinking Americans, merely protecting “the process.”

    The truth is that they loathe President Obama…for whatever reason suits them.

    Maybe it’s because he’s black.

    Maybe it’s because he comes from an interracial relationship, which is anathema to racists (never mind their history of bopping any black girl they could find, who would not or could not say “no”).

    Maybe it’s because he has an Arab-sounding middle name. Maybe it’s because he spent a lot of time in a Muslim country (Indonesia).

    Maybe it’s because his father came from Africa (and racists loathe Africa, except as a source of labor and minerals).

    Maybe it’s because he rose swiftly and effectively to political power (and racists hate it when somebody with a differing melanin content does so while they wallow in ignorance).

    Maybe it’s because he’s an articulate and well-spoken black man (and racists utterly loathe articulate and well-spoken black men. They prefer black men who only ask if anyone wants to buy drugs from them, or sing a song).

    Maybe it’s because he has a standard and fairly functional family (and racists hate it when black people have anything but a stereotypical dysfunctional family of single mothers, bedraggled grandmothers, screeching babies, absent fathers, drug-dealing boys, and sluttily-dressed daughters).

    Maybe it’s because he is a liberal Democrat, and racists and hard-line conservatives think that anyone further left than Francisco Franco is a card-carrying Communist, taking orders directly from Karl Marx, Satan, and the Learned Elders of Zion, hell-bent on destroying the entire world, through disease, nuclear warfare, and general tyranny.

    Maybe it’s because he got elected twice by fairly large-sized majorities as President of the United States, when racists are furious that anybody other than Rand Paul, Ted Nugent, or Alex Jones is not being elected president by 110 percent of the vote.

    Maybe it’s because he supported and pushed through programs that racists and hard-line conservatives hate, like Obamacare, which really isn’t anywhere near nationalized health, or wants to do something about the plague of gun violence in the United States. After all, hard-line conservatives and racists don’t think much of any science (except police science, computer engineering and weapons development), and heartily endorse gun violence as a means of settling disputes.

    But no matter what it is, what the issue is, how much proof there is, the Birthers will never be happy, never be satisfied, never admit, “Yeah, we were wrong, let’s drop this stupidity and find some common ground to address our chronic and acute crises.”

    Ronald Reagan’s last chief of staff, Richard Duberstein said it best: “The extreme right wing is never happy. It’s never satisfied.” They are professional whiners. They are nostalgic for a lost America that never really existed, even in the 1950s, the 1940s, the 1920s, or the 1830s. They’re nostalgic for the fuzzy vision they have of their own youth, when they were cooler than the generation before them and wiser than the generation after them.

    They will NEVER be happy with the truth, only with their own fantasies and nightmares — their idiotic “proofs” about the birth certificate and their dreams of county sheriffs looking like Rod Steiger hauling a tearful Obama in orange jumpsuit and shackles out of the White House to a chopping block and executioner on Pennsylvania Avenue.

    Even if a time traveler was to return these folks to their “good old days,” they would land back in 1957 or 1943 or 1847, and find the world in horrible shape, and not to their pleasure.

    Even if they were to all gather together, secede a chunk of Arizona from the Union, with the support of the rest of the American people, their nation would soon disintegrate into petty and major squabbling, and fall apart, defeated by paranoia, incompetence, and grand senses of personal entitlement.

    They are NEVER happy, and they are full of hate. That’s all that sustains them.

    Well said.

  291. avatar
    Hermitian June 7, 2013 at 2:24 pm #

    The Magic M: So you think a “law man” would make false assertions (based on the wrong manual) in a press conference and then not publically retract those statements, stating he was wrong back then but has corrected the mistake?
    Would that not be expected from real law enforcement?
    Would you expect a real LEO to publically state “according to our evidence, the victim was shot twice in the back” and then just quietly change that to “… was stabbed four times in the chest” months later?

    Didn’t I read that in Breitbart’s autopsy report?

  292. avatar
    Hermitian June 7, 2013 at 2:29 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Zebest has no credentials in image compression at all. Why should anyone bother with her report? Real experts say the document is normal.

    Hermitian: Those of you who still cling to the file compression ruse should read the following report by Mara Zebest.

    Zullo just identified his forensic expert. But you have never named yours.

    [Yes I have. Doc.]

  293. avatar
    Jim June 7, 2013 at 2:37 pm #

    Well, it looks like Arpaio and Zullo’s plan is working out very nicely now. Best investment we made, helping Arpaio get re-elected by dropping the court case against him and then squashing the recall effort. Nice job by the AZ contingent. Zullo said in the last meeting he’d like to be done with the birther “idiots” by the end of the summer, so make sure his new Car Lot is ready and stocked…the President doesn’t want his good friend to have to sell another used car again. We need to get the next round of debunking in Zullo’s hands soon, before the birthers realize what is happening. We’re going to have to change the timetable in order to accommodate Mike, but it should be manageable.

    I asked Mike about using message boards to pass on the needed info to all the Presidents secret minions…but he said not to worry, that birthers are so dumb and disbelieving that he’ll be able to use it to his advantage. He even gave the operation a name…”The Summer of Birther Tears”. I like it! :D

  294. avatar
    Hermitian June 7, 2013 at 2:52 pm #

    Hermitian: NBC: There are various OCR/scanning solutions out there that can be used to restore the document into all its elements. I can create tables from scanned data, it can restore text and so on.
    The compression artifacts include separation of foreground and background layers, JBIG2 lossy compression (which generates identical letters for close matches).

    JBIG2 compression was not used on the WH LFCOLB. See the Zebest report above.

  295. avatar
    misha marinsky June 7, 2013 at 3:03 pm #

    Lax rules let Ariz. sheriff’s supporter pose as deputy

    37-year-old had a Sheriff’s Office T-shirt, a gun and a Sheriff’s Office badge on his belt.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/07/impersonating-sheriffs-deputy/2401375/

  296. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 7, 2013 at 3:25 pm #

    No offense, but that about the last place I would go for anything technical about a PDF. She’s put out so much false information to date that her credibility is nonexistent and her bias is proven.

    Hermitian: JBIG2 compression was not used on the WH LFCOLB. See the Zebest report above.

  297. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 7, 2013 at 3:30 pm #

    misha marinsky: Lax rules let Ariz. sheriff’s supporter pose as deputy

    It’s a big problem everywhere. Google “police badges” and you will find dozens of places to buy them. Same with other police paraphernalia.

    It gets murky in places like Arizona where sheriffs are elected and they award supporters with badges and ID cards and then there are the posse members. The MCSO used to issue badges and ID cards to reporters!

  298. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 7, 2013 at 3:34 pm #

    No, and I’m not going to spend half a million dollars buying every high-end office machine and commercial software package looking for it. (And Zullo and his crowd aren’t going to do that either.) I know that the MRC methodology allows for it, and I know that PDF display programs know how to display it. Dr.de Queiroz said that it looked like a variant of the DjVu libraries. He’s the expert.

    Hermitian: You still haven’t identified the compression software that produces eight 1-Bit monochrome layers and only one 8-Bit color layer. And the monochrome colors are different but none are Black.

  299. avatar
    Jim June 7, 2013 at 3:51 pm #

    Hermitian: JBIG2 compression was not used on the WH LFCOLB.See the Zebest report above.

    Hermie, let me ask you a very simple question. Do you understand why trying to blow up a graphical image to look at each letter would not be the same as using a magnifying glass on the paper original? Because, it’s obvious the the used copier salesman seems to think they work the same and produce the same results…they don’t. Do you even understand that there are no pictures on the web, just graphical representation of those images? Do you even understand that when you scan an original into a computer PDF file, the original is being altered to make it look like the original on the computer, but is not being stored as anything but bytes of information that is then translated to the computer screen, which may also go through another translation depending on the particular monitor? Do you not understand that computer experts, like me, were rolling around laughing our asses off at someone with no understanding of graphics trying to explain graphics? Your CSI-wannabe’s are just a joke and you’re just their rube…to be used until you’re no longer useful.

  300. avatar
    Hermitian June 7, 2013 at 3:59 pm #

    CarlOrcas: And – again – for the sake of discussion (and hoping to get a response out of you) if you were to get one of the copies exactly what would you look for to satisfy your concerns?

    First I would expose the certified copy to Ultraviolet light to authenticate the security paper. I would then verify the other security features of the security paper. Then I would inspect the Hawaii State embossed seal impression against the published official Hawaii State seal image. I would measure the dimensions of the seal impression and verify that they are the same as the authentic image. I would also check that the text is in the correct font and correct position around the seal periphery. This would be a particularly effective check because the seal periphery has both English and Hawaii text. Additionally, the Hawaiian text is in a distinctive native font. Hawaii has had a number of different seals of different sizes over its history. The current 1959 state seal is the largest in diameter.

    I would then verify that the registrar’s signature and date stamp are authentic and that the impressions are in permanent Black ink. I would apply modern infrared equipment to verify that the ink is authentic and of uniform composition.

    I would then digitally scan the certified copy to a PDF file and compare the resulting image at the pixel level with the PDF image released by the White House.

    I would closely examine each typed character to verify the typewriter font and the spacing of adjacent characters. I would also measure the characters to verify the points for the font. Finally I would compare the word spacing and tab stops and margins to authentic Hawaii hospital-generated birth certificates from 1961.

    I would also compare the color values of the text and image elements.

    I would then obtain representative samples for all the signatures appearing on the certified copy and have a handwriting expert verify each signature.

    How’s that for a start?

  301. avatar
    nbc June 7, 2013 at 5:43 pm #

    Hermitian: JBIG2 compression was not used on the WH LFCOLB. See the Zebest report above.

    She is wrong. There is no JBIG2 encoding as preview removes it but the fact that so many letters are exact copies and the same letters looking different on the AP copy shows that JBIG2 was used.

    Zebest has failed to pursue a far more logical explanation. But this is not really her expertise.

  302. avatar
    GLaB June 7, 2013 at 5:45 pm #

    It looks like the birthers have a new angel lined up:

    Birther Investigator Reports Rep. Stockman ‘Deeply Concerned’ About Obama Birth Certificate, Has Requested ‘Lengthy’ Meeting

    “Only the “hand of God,” the host replies, could have arranged for Stockman to be at the convention to hear Zullo’s speech.”

    http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/birther-investigator-reports-rep-stockman-deeply-concerned-about-obama-birth-certificate-has

  303. avatar
    nbc June 7, 2013 at 5:45 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: ou still haven’t identified the compression software that produces eight 1-Bit monochrome layers and only one 8-Bit color layer. And the monochrome colors are different but none are Black.

    Try any software that tries to recover the look and feel of the document such as table etc. And the color is determined by the overall color, while a forger would have used a single color.

    Again common sense. But that’s not your strongest point.

    Can you explain the alignment of the 8 layers? I can, and it points to an algorithm..

    Care to try?

    Hint they all align to 8 bit boundaries on two sides and to the edge of the “text” on the other sides.

  304. avatar
    Rickey June 7, 2013 at 5:59 pm #

    GLaB:
    It looks like the birthers have a new angel lined up:

    Birther Investigator Reports Rep. Stockman ‘Deeply Concerned’ About Obama Birth Certificate, Has Requested ‘Lengthy’ Meeting

    I’ll believe that when I hear Stockman say it.

    I have no doubt that Stockman is sympathetic, but I have yet to see a Republican in Congress who has been willing to go full birther. Besides, Stockman is in no position to create any birther noise in Congress. He chairs no committees, and his only committee assignments are the Committee on Foreign Affairs and the Committee on Science, Space and Technology.

  305. avatar
    GLaB June 7, 2013 at 6:12 pm #

    CarlOrcas: It’s a big problem everywhere. Google “police badges” and you will find dozens of places to buy them. Same with other police paraphernalia.

    It gets murky in places like Arizona where sheriffs are elected and they award supporters with badges and ID cards and then there are the posse members. The MCSO used to issue badges and ID cards to reporters!

    Here in Denver, City Councilmen are (were?) endowed with police powers. We had one Councilman, Larry Perry, who got phony badges for himself and his sons and they went out and made traffic arrests and the like. LOL

    There’s no accounting for stupid.

  306. avatar
    Monkey Boy June 7, 2013 at 6:27 pm #

    Hermy whines that Obama has shown him birth certifications. I’m still waiting for Hermy to tell us for which Presidents he has witnessed birth certifications.

    I have a hunch, I’ll be waiting for a while.

  307. avatar
    aarrgghh June 7, 2013 at 6:52 pm #

    Rickey: I have no doubt that Stockman is sympathetic, but I have yet to see a Republican in Congress who has been willing to go full birther.

    a full working week later and not a peep, much less frogmarching and trumpets. stockman may have already figured out you never go full birfer.

  308. avatar
    Hermitian June 7, 2013 at 8:51 pm #

    nbc: Hermitian: JBIG2 compression was not used on the WH LFCOLB. See the Zebest report above.
    She is wrong. There is no JBIG2 encoding as preview removes it but the fact that so many letters are exact copies and the same letters looking different on the AP copy shows that JBIG2 was used.
    Zebest has failed to pursue a far more logical explanation. But this is not really her expertise.

    What’s your point? You have zero evidence that JBIG2 compression was applied. I however know which compression was actually used from simply opening and reading the WH LFCOLB PDF file with a text editor.

    The 8-Bit Background layer was compressed via DCTDecode and all the 1-Bit layers text and White spots layers were compressed via FlateDecode. The DCTDecode filter is based on the JPEG standard. The JBIG2Decode filter appears nowhere in the text of the WH LFCOLB PDF file.

  309. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 8, 2013 at 12:43 pm #

    Hermitian: How’s that for a start?

    Daunting.

    I’ll leave aside, for the moment, the notion that you think Hawaii might issue you a document on phony security paper with phony seals and I’ll leave it to others to get into the weeds with you on the minutia and just ask one, critical question:

    What qualifications do you have to do what you say you would do?

  310. avatar
    Hermitian June 8, 2013 at 12:43 pm #

    According the Obots’ claim, the PDF image is a duplicate copy of the two certified copies. But then, because the two certified copies cannot be identical, then the PDF image can be at most be a duplicate copy of one of them.

    But in that case why has Obama not produced either of the certified copies to the courts? Instead he has produced several different versions of the PDF image.

    If any one these is a duplicate copy of one of the two certified copies then why did Obama’s attorneys not just produce one of Obama’s two certified copies?

    Instead they requested multiple verifications of different PDF images from the HDOH.

    However, it would actually have been easier for the attorneys to have requested additional certified copies.

    The most obvious answer is that none of the various PDF images that the attorneys have produced in court is a duplicate of a certified copy.

    Hence if they were to produce a genuine certified copy it would prove this fact.

  311. avatar
    Thinker June 8, 2013 at 1:04 pm #

    Hermi’s got a long time to build the necessary expertise and perfect his methodology. He will not be getting a glimpse at a certified copy of Barack Obama’s birth certificate until the Obama Presidential Library opens 7 or 8 years from now.

  312. avatar
    nbc June 8, 2013 at 4:06 pm #

    Hermitian: If any one these is a duplicate copy of one of the two certified copies then why did Obama’s attorneys not just produce one of Obama’s two certified copies?

    They did not have to. But we know that all the information on the PDF has been verified, attested to and certified. We know that it matches with the Guthrie photograph and the AP scan.

    The problem is not that they did no present the certified document, but rather the foolish people who claim that a highly compressed version of this document shows digital artifacts and then insist this to be signs of forgery when much better explanations exist.

    And then the poor birthers are too lazy to do their own research and rely on the commentary of self proclaimed experts…

    Fear and ignorance my friend… Those are your only friends on this journey it seems. And see what it has forces you to become?

  313. avatar
    nbc June 8, 2013 at 4:08 pm #

    Hermitian: Hence if they were to produce a genuine certified copy it would prove this fact.

    Lack of logic due to a false premise.

    Poor Hermitian. His fear and ignorance causes him to become a fool for all to watch. If it were not something so systemic to who he is, I would have felt sorry for him, but he is unable to incorporate any evidence to the contrary.

  314. avatar
    Daniel June 8, 2013 at 4:14 pm #

    Hermitian:

    But in that case why has Obama not produced either of the certified copies to the courts?

    Why haven’t YOU produced your certified copy of your Birth Certificate to the courts, Hermi?

    Apparently it’s you that has something to hide….

  315. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 8, 2013 at 5:26 pm #

    Hermitian: According the Obots’ claim, the PDF image is a duplicate copy of the two certified copies. But then, because the two certified copies cannot be identical, then the PDF image can be at most be a duplicate copy of one of them.

    I’ve been reading and rereading your message since you posted it and I think I’ve figured it out: It doesn’t make a bit of sense.

    One scanned image (the PDF on the White House website) is no more a “duplicate copy” of the original certified documents than a digital picture of the Mona Lisa is a “duplicate copy” of that painting.

    So….there are no “duplicate” copies of anything.

    Hermitian: But in that case why has Obama not produced either of the certified copies to the courts? I

    Which court has asked to see a certified copy?

    Hermitian: If any one these is a duplicate copy of one of the two certified copies then why did Obama’s attorneys not just produce one of Obama’s two certified copies?

    For whom?

    Hermitian: Instead they requested multiple verifications of different PDF images from the HDOH.

    Didn’t Hawaii confirm the information in the PDF images matched the information in its files?

    Hermitian: However, it would actually have been easier for the attorneys to have requested additional certified copies.

    How many would it take, Herm, for you to be satisfied? A dozen? Hundreds? A million?

    Hermitian: The most obvious answer is that none of the various PDF images that the attorneys have produced in court is a duplicate of a certified copy.

    Hence if they were to produce a genuine certified copy it would prove this fact.

    See first response.

  316. avatar
    Jim June 8, 2013 at 5:40 pm #

    Hermitian:
    But in that case why has Obama not produced either of the certified copies to the courts?

    Well, let’s see what the court thinks about that Hermi…

    Judge England:” The only admissible evidence is that which is under the rules of evidence. And, at this point, the indication and the notification from secretary — or from Hawaii, let’s see, the director of the Hawaii State Department of Health has indicated and stated the the birth certificate of President Obama is accurate, is acceptable.”

    So, the court accepts the verification as admissible evidence. So, there is no need to have to show up in court with a certified copy…and no court has EVER asked for it.

  317. avatar
    Hermitian June 9, 2013 at 6:56 am #

    nbc: Dr. Conspiracy: ou still haven’t identified the compression software that produces eight 1-Bit monochrome layers and only one 8-Bit color layer. And the monochrome colors are different but none are Black.
    Try any software that tries to recover the look and feel of the document such as table etc. And the color is determined by the overall color, while a forger would have used a single color.
    Again common sense. But that’s not your strongest point.
    Can you explain the alignment of the 8 layers? I can, and it points to an algorithm..
    Care to try?
    Hint they all align to 8 bit boundaries on two sides and to the edge of the “text” on the other sides.

    NBC did you ever obtain the “exact nature of the calculations” from gsgs?

    “nbc says:
    “August 27, 2012 at 4:41 pm

    “If you calculate (x,y) of the position, where that layer fits into the whole picture and add to it the size of the layer-pic, then you get 0 (mod 8 ) in all 16 cases.”

    “Hmm, sounds like an algorithm here. I was looking for something like you have found. Could you please clarify the exact nature of the calculations?”

  318. avatar
    gorefan June 9, 2013 at 10:37 am #

    Hermitian:
    Instead they requested multiple verifications of different PDF images

    Unless I missed something, the lawyers for the Democratic Party and possible President Obama have only requested one verification, not “multiple verifications.”. The others were requested by SoS Bennett and SoS Kobach.

  319. avatar
    nbc June 9, 2013 at 12:30 pm #

    Hermitian: NBC did you ever obtain the “exact nature of the calculations” from gsgs?

    “nbc says:
    “August 27, 2012 at 4:41 pm

    “If you calculate (x,y) of the position, where that layer fits into the whole picture and add to it the size of the layer-pic, then you get 0 (mod 8 ) in all 16 cases.”

    “Hmm, sounds like an algorithm here. I was looking for something like you have found. Could you please clarify the exact nature of the calculations?”

    Yes. All evidence points to a simple algorithm for the layer’s boundaries. Can you explain why they align at 8 bit boundaries?

  320. avatar
    nbc June 9, 2013 at 1:29 pm #

    More on the alignment of the layers Long Form Birth Certificate – Object alignment (GSGS)

    Something well explained by an algorithm and poorly explained by ‘fraud’. The MCSO CCP has failed to follow where the evidence so clearly is leading. Even the analysis of the layers is better explained by an algorithm than by a forger.

    As such, their ‘evidence’ would fail in court… They seem to have realized this as they are now pursuing a lesser standard of evidence in Congress. But even Congress appears to not be that foolish… So all we have are some ‘sheriffs’ who are ‘convinced’…

  321. avatar
    Majority Will June 9, 2013 at 2:12 pm #

    Hermitian May 21, 2013 at 10:35 pm: “Patience JPot. The wheels will come off your Obot wagon in two weeks.”

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2013/05/ramblin-screed/#comment-268395

    Maybe I missed it. Are we getting a free tire rotation?

  322. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 9, 2013 at 2:45 pm #

    Don’t forget, Hermie has very poor reading comprehension. I think he needs to see the actual calculations in order to understand what we’re talking about. Modifying gsgs’s formatting slightly, and adding in his described calculations, we get:

    1. (1819×1454)+( 373, 970)=(2192,2424)/8=(274×303)
    2. ( 778× 199)+(1270, 257)=(2048, 456)/8=(256× 57)
    3. ( 274× 42)+( 710, 334)=( 984, 376)/8=(123× 47)
    4. ( 228× 123)+(1836,1021)=(2064,1144)/8=(258×143)
    5. ( 216× 47)+( 432,1017)=( 648,1064)/8=( 81×133)
    6. ( 70× 34)+(1458,1310)=(1528,1344)/8=(191×168)
    7. ( 217× 243)+( 735, 533)=( 952, 776)/8=(119× 97)
    8. ( 142× 132)+(1050,3140)=(1192,3272)/8=(149×409)

    The first item on each line is the number of the 1-bit monochrome layer (there are 8 total). The second item is the size of the layer in pixels. The third is the (x,y) coordinate in pixels of the bottom-left corner of the layer, using the bottom-left corner of the overall picture as the (0,0) origin. These are added together to find the (x,y) coordinate of the upper-right corner of the layer. These coordinates are then divided by 8 to show that the upper-right corner is always at the edge of an 8×8 block, as the coordinates are all divisible by 8.

    Of course, NBC has already described this multiple times, so it is Hermie’s inability to understand written English, not some sort of inaction on NBC’s part, that is at fault.

  323. avatar
    nbc June 9, 2013 at 3:48 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: Of course, NBC has already described this multiple times, so it is Hermie’s inability to understand written English, not some sort of inaction on NBC’s part, that is at fault.

    I do not think that Hermie has fundamental reading comprehension problems. It’s just that his hatred and fear have deprived him of an ability to consider data that are at odds with his foolish position.

  324. avatar
    JPotter June 9, 2013 at 5:20 pm #

    Majority Will: Maybe I missed it.

    So that’s what “rubbing it in” looks like! Herms must be completely numb to it by now.

  325. avatar
    Rickey June 9, 2013 at 5:32 pm #

    Majority Will:
    Hermitian May 21, 2013 at 10:35 pm: “Patience JPot. The wheels will come off your Obot wagon in two weeks.”

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2013/05/ramblin-screed/#comment-268395

    Maybe I missed it. Are we getting a free tire rotation?

    You mean Obama wasn’t frog-marched out of the White House in chains last week? Damn.

  326. avatar
    gorefan June 9, 2013 at 6:41 pm #

    nbc:
    More on the alignment of the layers Long Form Birth Certificate – Object alignment (GSGS)

    The link doesn’t work.

  327. avatar
    nbc June 9, 2013 at 6:47 pm #

    Works for me

  328. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 9, 2013 at 6:50 pm #

    Me too.

    nbc: Works for me

  329. avatar
    nbc June 9, 2013 at 6:59 pm #

    some maintenance is happening right now.

  330. avatar
    gorefan June 9, 2013 at 7:25 pm #

    I get a 404 error. But only sometimes, it worked once.

  331. avatar
    gorefan June 9, 2013 at 10:06 pm #

    Check the other GSGS articles, they are also coming up with a 404 error.

  332. avatar
    nbc June 9, 2013 at 11:20 pm #

    I know…

  333. avatar
    h2ooflife.wordpress.com/ June 10, 2013 at 1:55 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    The listener assumes that Zullo is saying that if Obama Sr. had written “African” for his race, then the State of Hawaii would have crossed it out and written “negro.” He never says this.”

    He never said it because it is not what he intended for listeners to conclude. His point is that the pdf counterfeiter employed the wrong terminology, -made a mistake which is supposedly proven by what is supposedly correct. No birther believes that Obama Sr. had anything whatsoever to do with the production of a real or counterfeit birth record. The assumption is that wherever Jr. was born, his father wasn’t around. That is evidenced by the fact that he didn’t know that a son was being attributed to him when, in late August, he failed to report such an event to the INS which he would have done had he known it in order to bolster his bid to obtain an extension of his Visa.
    No one knows when he first became aware that he had fathered a child with Dunham. It could have been after he had already returned to Africa after his time at Harvard. There is no evidence of anything related to Obama’s birth, no witnesses, no photos, no certified physical records. No marriage certificate, wedding photos, witnesses, etc. Nothing. A phantom appearance that is first reported by friends of Ann in Seattle.

  334. avatar
    Whatever4 June 10, 2013 at 6:55 am #

    Hermitian:

    But in that case why has Obama not produced either of the certified copies to the courts? Instead he has produced several different versions of the PDF image.

    Obama isnt a party to any case where the defense has produced a version of the PDF image. The case in Mississippi is against the Secretary of State and the Mississippi Democratic Party.

    If any one these is a duplicate copy of one of the two certified copies then why did Obama’s attorneys not just produce one of Obama’s two certified copies?

    Obama’s attorneys aren’t involved.

    Instead they requested multiple verifications of different PDF images from the HDOH.

    No, they requested verification of the facts of birth.

    However, it would actually have been easier for the attorneys to have requested additional certified copies.

    The attorneys weren’t on the list of people entitled to certified copies of the birth certificate, as Obama isn’t a party to the case.

    The most obvious answer is that none of the various PDF images that the attorneys have produced in court is a duplicate of a certified copy.

    The Hawaii DOH doesn’t verify images, they verify the facts of birth.

  335. avatar
    The Magic M June 10, 2013 at 7:02 am #

    Rickey: You mean Obama wasn’t frog-marched out of the White House in chains last week? Damn.

    Obviously he was (how could a birther prediction possibly be false?), so the only logical conclusion is he was replaced by either a lookalike or a clone. Didn’t you notice the slight difference in height?
    Or maybe Denzel Washington in disguise, I mean, when was the last time you saw the two together?

  336. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 10, 2013 at 7:16 am #

    Obama was added as a defendant in the amended complaint in Mississippi.

    However, the long-birth certificate submitted in the context of providing a legible copy of what Orly Taitz had already submitted. Then when Taitz tried to have the Defense attorneys sanctioned for submitting a false document (that she says they know is false), they submitted the verificat9ion from Hawaii to demonstrate that they couldn’t have known it was false because it wasn’t).

    The birth certificates were not submitted as evidence in the proceeding because it has not reached that stage.

    Whatever4: Obama isnt a party to any case where the defense has produced a version of the PDF image. The case in Mississippi is against the Secretary of State and the Mississippi Democratic Party.

  337. avatar
    misha marinsky June 10, 2013 at 8:57 am #

    h3oOflife.wordpress.com/:There is no evidence of anything related to Obama’s birth, no witnesses, no photos, no certified physical records.No marriage certificate, wedding photos, witnesses, etc.Nothing.

    That’s because Obama was born in Kenya. I found his Kenya BC:

    http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2009/09/another-kenyan-birth-certificate.html

  338. avatar
    Rickey June 10, 2013 at 11:04 am #

    h2ooflife.wordpress.com/: No one knows when he first became aware that he had fathered a child with Dunham.It could have been after he had already returned to Africa after his time at Harvard.There is no evidence of anything related to Obama’s birth, no witnesses, no photos, no certified physical records.No marriage certificate, wedding photos, witnesses, etc.Nothing.A phantom appearance that is first reported by friends of Ann in Seattle.

    Governor Abercrombie saw baby Barack with both of his parents shortly after he was born, which pretty much shoots your theory all to hell.

    As for Obama’s roots in Hawaii, Abercrombie told Hawaii News Now he first laid eyes on baby Barack Obama a few days after he was born. Abercrombie said Obama’s parents introduced their newborn to friends at the University of Hawaii where Abercrombie was going to college with the president’s father.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/04/abercrombie-meets-obama/

  339. avatar
    Majority Will June 10, 2013 at 11:22 am #

    h2ooflife.wordpress.com/: Idiotic drivel.

    Hit whoring for your moronic birther blog reeks of desperation.

  340. avatar
    sfjeff June 10, 2013 at 12:16 pm #

    There is no evidence of anything related to Obama’s birth, no witnesses, no photos, no certified physical records. No marriage certificate, wedding photos, witnesses, etc. Nothing. A phantom appearance that is first reported by friends of Ann in Seattle.

    someone else noted that the current Governor of Hawaii has stated that he knew the couple, and was friends with them when Obama jr. was born.

    And of course there were the two birth announcements in the newspaper….I bet Obama Sr. noticed his name in the newspaper

    Now lets compare that to George Bush’s birth….oh heck who knows- no one has ever looked for any evidence of George Bush’s birth

  341. avatar
    donna June 10, 2013 at 12:28 pm #

    What about Clinton’s birth certificate? Bush’s? Ford’s? Kennedy’s?

    here’s a look at the nine presidents before Obama:

    http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/28/search-for-u-s-presidents-birth-certificates-yields-mixed-results/

  342. avatar
    nbc June 10, 2013 at 2:19 pm #

    Rickey: There is no evidence of anything related to Obama’s birth, no witnesses, no photos, no certified physical records.

    Of course there is the birth certificate and the newspaper birth announcements.

    Such a bummer…

  343. avatar
    nbc June 10, 2013 at 2:26 pm #

    h2ooflife.wordpress.com/: hat is evidenced by the fact that he didn’t know that a son was being attributed to him when, in late August, he failed to report such an event to the INS which he would have done had he known it in order to bolster his bid to obtain an extension of his Visa.

    Now the facts

    The elder Barack H. Obama, a sophomore at the University of Hawaii, had come under scrutiny by federal immigration officials who were concerned that he had more than one wife. When he was questioned by the school’s foreign student adviser, the 24-year-old Obama insisted that he had divorced his wife in his native Kenya. Although his new wife, Ann Dunham, was five months pregnant with their child – who would be called Barack Obama II – Obama declared that they intended to put their child up for adoption.

    “Subject got his USC wife ‘Hapai’ [Hawaiian for pregnant] and although they were married they do not live together and Miss Dunham is making arrangements with the Salvation Army to give the baby away,’’ according to a memo describing the conversation with Obama written by Lyle H. Dahling, an administrator in the Honolulu office of what was then called the US Immigration and Naturalization Service.

    Facts, my friend, keep embarrassing you.

  344. avatar
    sfjeff June 10, 2013 at 2:36 pm #

    nbc: Now the factsFacts, my friend, keep embarrassing you.

    Facts- always the Birthers chief obstacle….

  345. avatar
    nbc June 10, 2013 at 2:59 pm #

    So it seems… It’s their fear and ignorance which precludes them from doing proper research. A common affliction, or so I have observed.

  346. avatar
    donna June 10, 2013 at 3:07 pm #

    nbc: So it seems… It’s their fear and ignorance which precludes them from doing proper research. A common affliction, or so I have observed.

    it’s their fear of being WRONG

    “people show confirmation bias because they are weighing up the costs of being wrong, rather than investigating in a neutral, scientific way.” wiki

    In other words: whereas Democrats sought information, Republicans sought simply confirmation of their beliefs.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/gallup-poll-shows-republi_b_3355985.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

  347. avatar
    nbc June 10, 2013 at 3:22 pm #

    “people show confirmation bias because they are weighing up the costs of being wrong, rather than investigating in a neutral, scientific way.” wiki

    In other words: whereas Democrats sought information, Republicans sought simply confirmation of their beliefs.

    Yes, confirmation bias, fear of being wrong, group thinking, are also correlated with religiousity and conservatism. The word itself explains already…

  348. avatar
    Hermitian June 10, 2013 at 10:11 pm #

    Whatever4: Obama isnt a party to any case where the defense has produced a version of the PDF image. The case in Mississippi is against the Secretary of State and the Mississippi Democratic Party.

    He is currently a party to Taitz’s Ballot challenge case in Mississippi. In that case the attorneys have produced two different PDF images of the purported Obama LFCOLB in court filings.

  349. avatar
    Hermitian June 10, 2013 at 11:02 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: Modifying gsgs’s formatting slightly, and adding in his described calculations, we get:
    1. (1819×1454)+( 373, 970)=(2192,2424)/8=(274×303)
    2. ( 778× 199)+(1270, 257)=(2048, 456)/8=(256× 57)
    3. ( 274× 42)+( 710, 334)=( 984, 376)/8=(123× 47)
    4. ( 228× 123)+(1836,1021)=(2064,1144)/8=(258×143)
    5. ( 216× 47)+( 432,1017)=( 648,1064)/8=( 81×133)
    6. ( 70× 34)+(1458,1310)=(1528,1344)/8=(191×168)
    7. ( 217× 243)+( 735, 533)=( 952, 776)/8=(119× 97)
    8. ( 142× 132)+(1050,3140)=(1192,3272)/8=(149×409)

    The problem with these results is that gsgs has never explained how he got them.

    He has alluded to writing “C” programs to read and extract results from the WH PDF file.

    In other posts he has referred to outline images in .BMZ format. Who still uses .BMZ files? I suspect that he has read his coordinates from these outline plots in some graphics program.

    The offset x, y values are not text within the PDF file but rather are binary numbers intermingled within the nine binary streams for the nine embedded bitmap images within the PDF. Only the width and height dimensions of each rectangle appear as text within the PDF file.

    Consequently, his C program must read both the text for W and H and extract the X and Y coordinates from the binary. A very difficult thing to pull off without detailed knowledge of the format used for each binary stream.

    This is the reason for my belief that he is reading his coordinates graphically.

    His results are also inconsistent with conventions used in Adobe Illustrator and InkScape (where the X and Y coordinates are always relative to the rulers origin in the upper left corner). Also the convention in Illustrator for rotations is clockwise for an angle of -90 degrees not counterclockwise as he assumes.

    If you Obots want to eat this stuff up it’s OK with me but I need more details from gsgs.

  350. avatar
    Daniel June 11, 2013 at 12:55 pm #

    Hermitian: He is currently a party to Taitz’s Ballot challenge case in Mississippi.In that case the attorneys have produced two different PDF images of the purported Obama LFCOLB in court filings.

    You don’t really have a good grasp of the difference between a document submitted as evidence, and a copy of a document submitted as a courtesy to the court because the loser lawyer on the plaintiff side couldn’t manage to submit a readable version… do you…

    Since the BC has never been submitted by any defence as evidence in any proceeding, your fail point is fail… again…

  351. avatar
    Daniel June 11, 2013 at 12:57 pm #

    Hermitian: The problem with these results is that gsgs has never explained how he got them.

    maybe you should somehow force him to reveal….

    Maybe you should take the whole issue to court!

    Oh… right…. that hasn’t worked out so well for you, has it….

  352. avatar
    nbc June 11, 2013 at 1:25 pm #

    Hermitian: The problem with these results is that gsgs has never explained how he got them.

    Simple, you load the document and look at the coordinates of the corners. You will then see that the top and right sides line up with 8 bit boundaries while the bottom and left line up with the end of the graphics.

    While you have a hard time understanding gsgs, someone with minimal experience in gimp or adobe can find this information..

    But you somehow are unwilling or unable to explain…

    bmz are compressed bitmaps. They are quite large, hence compressed. They are the best format to evaluate these features.

  353. avatar
    nbc June 11, 2013 at 1:26 pm #

    Hermitian: If you Obots want to eat this stuff up it’s OK with me but I need more details from gsgs.

    What part do you not understand, as i have verified the information. Geez my friend, can you not even do this simple kind of research? And yet you are accepting the MCSO CCP findings without any due diligence?

  354. avatar
    Rickey June 11, 2013 at 1:44 pm #

    Hermitian: He is currently a party to Taitz’s Ballot challenge case in Mississippi.In that case the attorneys have produced two different PDF images of the purported Obama LFCOLB in court filings.

    Those copies were not submitted as evidence. Attorneys typically do not submit evidence during the preliminary stages of a lawsuit. I see all sorts of uncertified documents filed in lawsuits, including police reports, photographs, copies of driving records, medical reports, etc. Do you believe that the copy which Orly submitted to the court in Mississippi is evidence?

    If Obama is ever required by a court to produce a certified copy of his birth certificate, I am sure that he will do so. In the meantime, he only has two certified copies so he is well advised to hang onto them.

  355. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 11, 2013 at 2:15 pm #

    Hermitian: In other posts he has referred to outline images in .BMZ format. Who still uses .BMZ files? I suspect that he has read his coordinates from these outline plots in some graphics program.

    Wow, you really don’t understand what’s going on, do you? His outline files are .BMP format that have been compressed using gzip, which traditionally replaces the last letter of the extension with a ‘Z’. This is so the files can be hosted online and downloaded without using too much bandwidth. And why would it matter if he has read his coordinates from a graphics program?

    His results are also inconsistent with conventions used in Adobe Illustrator and InkScape (where the X and Y coordinates are always relative to the rulers origin in the upper left corner). Also the convention in Illustrator for rotations is clockwise for an angle of -90 degrees not counterclockwise as he assumes.

    Actually, this makes a lot more sense. Based on your description, the origin before would be what we see as the top right corner in the final output. The monochrome layers would then be starting at the calculated offsets, recalculated based on the correct origin. Note that the overall image is 2552×3304 pixels, which is divisible by 8. To find the original, pre-rotation offsets, subtract the calculated offsets from (2552,3304) and swap the x and y coordinates. And they are still divisible by 8. So basically, the layers start point was at the corner of the first 8×8 block that included the text, and ended at the far edges of the text.

    One issue I do have with gsgs’s analysis is that he regards the background as normal resolution and the text as double resolution. I believe it is better to view the text as being at normal resolution and the background at half-resolution.

  356. avatar
    Hermitian June 11, 2013 at 10:30 pm #

    nbc: Hermitian: If you Obots want to eat this stuff up it’s OK with me but I need more details from gsgs.
    What part do you not understand, as i have verified the information. Geez my friend, can you not even do this simple kind of research? And yet you are accepting the MCSO CCP findings without any due diligence?

    Please describe exactly what you did to verify gsgs’s results.

  357. avatar
    Hermitian June 11, 2013 at 10:38 pm #

    Rickey: If Obama is ever required by a court to produce a certified copy of his birth certificate, I am sure that he will do so. In the meantime, he only has two certified copies so he is well advised to hang onto them.

    Obot logic says Obama should continue to rat hole his two only certified copies (which cost him at most $20) while he has produced multiple PDF images of his purported LFCOLB. And, in addition, he has spent millions to avoid having to release either of the two certified copies.

  358. avatar
    Hermitian June 11, 2013 at 11:07 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: Actually, this makes a lot more sense. Based on your description, the origin before would be what we see as the top right corner in the final output. The monochrome layers would then be starting at the calculated offsets, recalculated based on the correct origin. Note that the overall image is 2552×3304 pixels, which is divisible by 8. To find the original, pre-rotation offsets, subtract the calculated offsets from (2552,3304) and swap the x and y coordinates. And they are still divisible by 8. So basically, the layers start point was at the corner of the first 8×8 block that included the text, and ended at the far edges of the text.

    The Obot claim is that the WH LFCOLB was produced by a color digital scan to PDF of one of the two certified copies followed by the application of some unknown file size optimization software which produced the final PDF file containing nine layers.

    Consequently, the PDF file that was optimized was a single layer PDF image. This unoptimized PDF file did not contain nine different images that needed to be scaled and rotated. Rather it contained only one image that needed to be optimized.

    To the contrary the Obots claim that the mysterious file size optimizer utilized Mixed Raster Compression to create the nine layers.

    Now if you and gsgs and nbc are claiming that this optimizer first segmented the image into rectangular regions (with their sides parallel to the edges of the page) and then scaled and rotated each rectangular segment differently then I would say each of you has totally lost it. Because this scenario would necessitate that each of these scalings and rotations would have to be reversed to reassemble the optimized PDF image.

    And then there is the insurmountable problem of the clipping mask. The same optimizer would also have to create the clipping mask. You might be interested to know that the rectangular path of the clipping mask does not obey the 8 MOD 0 condition.

    The clipping mask also crops the entire image (including the topmost white spot layer). The boundary of this layer extends outside the clipping path. Thus this layer has been cropped after it was supposedly optimized.

    You figure…

  359. avatar
    nbc June 12, 2013 at 3:40 am #

    Hermitian: Please describe exactly what you did to verify gsgs’s results.

    Load the document into a graphics editor and obtain the coordinates of the pixels and the four corners.

    Getting worried… Come on Hermitian, this is not rocket science. You determine the exact pixel coordinates of these corners, allowing you to determine where the 4 boundary lines are located.

  360. avatar
    nbc June 12, 2013 at 3:40 am #

    Hermitian: And, in addition, he has spent millions to avoid having to release either of the two certified copies.

    More unsupported assertions. Have you no shame? Oops… I forgot.

  361. avatar
    nbc June 12, 2013 at 3:42 am #

    Hermitian: Now if you and gsgs and nbc are claiming that this optimizer first segmented the image into rectangular regions (with their sides parallel to the edges of the page) and then scaled and rotated each rectangular segment differently then I would say each of you has totally lost it. Because this scenario would necessitate that each of these scalings and rotations would have to be reversed to reassemble the optimized PDF image.

    Nope they were all scaled and rotated equally. What I am saying is indeed that the segmenter, rather than doing a full separation, did a separation according to region, further reducing the size of the bitmaps involved.

    So far I have seen no arguments on your part that show this better explained by a forger.

    Why is that?

  362. avatar
    nbc June 12, 2013 at 3:44 am #

    Hermitian: And then there is the insurmountable problem of the clipping mask. The same optimizer would also have to create the clipping mask. You might be interested to know that the rectangular path of the clipping mask does not obey the 8 MOD 0 condition.

    Ah, the clipping mask, that could have been created when turning the prescanned image into the actual scan or by a later attempt to reduce the size.
    No real problem here. You problem is to explain the 8 MOD 0 condition, which you seem to suddenly understand perfectly.

    You are such a troll. Sad really that you pretend not to understand when you obviously do.

  363. avatar
    The Magic M June 12, 2013 at 4:12 am #

    Hermitian: Obot logic says Obama should continue to rat hole his two only certified copies (which cost him at most $20) while he has produced multiple PDF images of his purported LFCOLB.

    Birther logic says he could’ve submitted his two certified copies in 200+ cases almost simultaneously while most of these cases alleged that Hawaii is somehow complicit in the “forgery” and therefore those hypothetical submitted certified copies cannot be trusted anyway.

    This is nothing more than more of the “if he only released …, it would all go away” lie.
    Not one birther would stop birfin’ if a certified copy of the LFBC would’ve been submitted anywhere, courts, SOS’, ballot challenges, …
    They are all already so far beyond any PDF and certified copy that they are convinced that even the original vault record was somehow forged (and any court-appointed forensic examiner is “in on it” and would rubber-stamp it) or, that’s the other 50%, that even the original document does not guarantee the facts recorded on it are actually true and therefore is not enough to prove US birth, and besides that is all moot anyway because Vattel.

    So you seriously claim it’d be enough for you to have a certified copy (without confirmations of confirmations of confirmations plus a look at the original in the vault) submitted to court?

    Besides, it would open another can of worms and create dangerous precedent, namely that the President is somehow obliged to submit any (original) personal document as long as some loon demanded to see it. Next would be hospital records, medical records and any paper he wrote in high school, lest he’d have written something that sounds remotely “pro-Muslim”. Or a DNA test because some people are “honestly worried” he might be an alien shapeshifter. You realize this is a slippery slope no sane person would submit to, right?

  364. avatar
    Northland10 June 12, 2013 at 6:58 am #

    Hermitian: Obot logic says Obama should continue to rat hole his two only certified copies (which cost him at most $20) while he has produced multiple PDF images of his purported LFCOLB.And, in addition, he has spent millions to avoid having to release either of the two certified copies.

    Show proof he spent millions.

  365. avatar
    Hermitian June 12, 2013 at 9:13 am #

    nbc: Hermitian: Please describe exactly what you did to verify gsgs’s results.
    Load the document into a graphics editor and obtain the coordinates of the pixels and the four corners.
    Getting worried… Come on Hermitian, this is not rocket science. You determine the exact pixel coordinates of these corners, allowing you to determine where the 4 boundary lines are located.

    Which document and which graphics editor?

    The graphics software of course has to separate the nine layers to obtain their rectangular boundaries.

    Also, before one can measure the coordinates to the lower left corners of each rectangular object boundary in Illustrator, Acrobat or InkScape, one would have to first move the global ruler origin from the upper left corner of the artboard to the lower left corner of the background page. This would have to be done in Pixel Preview mode because no grids are visible in Outline mode.

    Then there is the problem that page size of the artboard object in the WH LFCOLB PDF image is smaller than the page size of the background image on all four sides.

    To accomplish the relocation of the ruler origin is no simple task because the page size of the artboard in the Obama LFCOLB PDF image is smaller than the page size of the background layer on all four sides. The background page extends beyond the artboard page by two 300 PPI pixels on the top and bottom sides and by one 300 PPI pixel on the left and right sides.

    For example:

    The Outline view in Illustrator does not display the global grid. So if using Illustrator, one would have to generate an object grid and then place this grid object in exact registration with the outlined image. This is the only way that a grid would print because the global grid does not print in Pixel Preview mode.

    And then there is the problem that the default pixel size in Illustrator is 72 PPI rather than 150 PPI or 300 PPI. Thus, a pixel grid does not align with the grid of any of the nine image layers in Illustrator. Hence one must select inches units for the grids rather than pixels.

    Hence the constructed grid would have to be 300 PPI to line up with the boundary rectangles of the nine objects and also line up with the rectangular path of the clipping mask. Only the top and bottom sides of the clipping path are congruent with the lower resolution (150 PPI) grid. The left and right sides of the clipping path are congruent with the higher resolution (300 PPI) grid but are not congruent with the lower resolution grid.

    However because the size of the background page is larger than the size of the artboard page, then the low resolution pixels (150 PPI) are offset horizontally (but not vertically) by half a (150 PPI) pixel from the high resolution pixels (300 PI).

    This means that a vertical boundary of any one of the edge pixels of any text or signature character within the background layer cannot also be a vertical boundary of an edge pixel of any text or signature character of the higher resolution background layers. This can be most easily seen by compaing the edge pixels of the Grayscale script “D” in “Dunham” in SADO’s signature with the Binary “unham” script characters, also in “Dunham”.

    Also it means that the sides of the rectangular boundaries of the high resolution layers are not always congruent to the grid lines of the low resolution (150 PPI) grid. For example only the top side of the rectangular boundary of Alvin Onaka’s signatute stamp is congruent with the low resolution grid. The bottom, left and right sides are congruent only with the higher resolution (300 PPI) grid.

    This is beginning to sound like the Obot mystery file-size optimizer utilizes rocket science.

    Maybe GSGS and NBC are the forgers???

  366. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 12, 2013 at 9:34 am #

    Hermitian: The Obot claim is that the WH LFCOLB was produced by a color digital scan to PDF of one of the two certified copies followed by the application of some unknown file size optimization software which produced the final PDF file containing nine layers.

    Consequently, the PDF file that was optimized was a single layer PDF image.This unoptimized PDF file did not contain nine different images that needed to be scaled and rotated.Rather it contained only one image that needed to be optimized.

    Wrong. Since the optimization software is probably in the scanner software (see Xerox patent previously mentioned), it is much more likely that the optimized file was created directly from the raw image file prior to being saved to the computer. The optimized file is thus likely to be the first PDF file to be generated.

    To the contrary the Obots claim that the mysterious file size optimizer utilized Mixed Raster Compression to create the nine layers.

    This is not contrary to anything. MRC uses layers to optimize file size.

    Now if you and gsgs and nbc are claiming that this optimizer first segmented the image into rectangular regions (with their sides parallel to the edges of the page) and then scaled and rotated each rectangular segment differently then I would say each of you has totally lost it.Because this scenario would necessitate that each of these scalings and rotations would have to be reversed to reassemble the optimized PDF image.

    But that’s not what we’re claiming. The rectangular segments are not scaled differently, nor are they rotated differently. The only difference in scale is explained entirely by the different resolutions: the background image is at half resolution. BTW, did you know the JPEG/DCT compression algorithm allows you to rotate an image 90 degrees losslessly? That doesn’t work with JBIG2 and flate.

    And then there is the insurmountable problem of the clipping mask. The same optimizer would also have to create the clipping mask.You might be interested to know that the rectangular path of the clipping mask does not obey the 8 MOD 0 condition.

    No, it wouldn’t. This very likely was not done by the optimization program, but rather in Preview.

    The clipping mask also crops the entire image (including the topmost white spot layer).The boundary of this layer extends outside the clipping path. Thus this layer has been cropped after it was supposedly optimized.

    I mostly agree with this paragraph. It would be more accurate to say that the whole image was cropped after it was optimized. This was done in Preview, at thes ame time the image was rotated.

    Let’s review the likely flow:

    The original document is scanned by a Xerox machine in Landscape mode. The scanner optimizes the raw image to create the PDF. In the process of optimizing the image, the software uses the previously mentioned patent to split the image into one background 8-bit color layer at 150 dpi* and eight 1-bit monochrome layers at 300 dpi (the layers with random white spots filling out two layers to complete the set of eight). The rectangular segments for the monochrome layers have start points at the edge of 8×8 blocks, and end points at the far edges of the included monochrome image. The coordinate origin is in the top left corner. The background image is compressed as a JPEG and the monochrome layers are compressed using JBIG2. The optimized PDF file is saved to the computer.

    The optimized file is then opened in Mac Preview. The overall image is in Landscape, so the operator rotates the image 90 degrees. All layers rotate clockwise, keeping the same relative position. The operator then realizes the image extends past the printer margins, so crops the overall image to create aw ide enough margin. The operator then renames and saves the slightly modified file, using the suggested compression settings of JPEG/DCT for color layers and flate for monochrome layers. Since there is no loss when rotating a JPEG, the background image is compressed rotated. However, since flate is not lossless when rotating images, the monochrome layers are compressed at their original orientation (with an instruction to rotate when reconstructing the file).

    The file can now be printed (btw, Macs print at 72 dpi) and uploaded to the net.

    *It is also possible that the lower resolution for the background image wasn’t generated until compression in Preview.

  367. avatar
    Keith June 12, 2013 at 10:27 am #

    nbc: So far I have seen no arguments on your part that show this better explained by a forger.

    Why is that?

    Because ‘he’ is just trolling you.

  368. avatar
    gorefan June 12, 2013 at 10:59 am #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: The original document is scanned by a Xerox machine in Landscape mode.

    Why landscape mode?

  369. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 12, 2013 at 11:07 am #

    gorefan: Why landscape mode?

    It best explains the rotation and the borders of the monochrome layers. Many scanners have that capability, and I’ve even run across some firmware upgrades that fixed Xerox scanners that were scanning in Landscape mode even though they were supposed to be scanning in Portrait mode (and vice-versa).

  370. avatar
    gorefan June 12, 2013 at 11:32 am #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: It best explains the rotation and the borders of the monochrome layers.Many scanners have that capability, and I’ve even run across some firmware upgrades that fixed Xerox scanners that were scanning in Landscape mode even though they were supposed to be scanning in Portrait mode (and vice-versa).

    Isn’t the default usually portrait mode?

  371. avatar
    nbc June 12, 2013 at 11:38 am #

    Hermitian: Maybe GSGS and NBC are the forgers???

    So far Hermitian has failed to address the location of the layers, instead he is now moving to other features.

    It is clear that our friend has no abilities to reject these findings other than by showing a continued ignorance.
    Quite entertaining to see how Hermitian is struggling to explain the alignment of these layers, which are all at 8 mod 0 boundaries.Again, a simple algorithm explains this quite easily but a forger? Not so much.
    Thanks to Hermitian showing that there is no good explanation beyond an algorithm. Of course, I can show that there are many more ‘anomalies’ which are much better explained by algorithm than by forgery.

  372. avatar
    nbc June 12, 2013 at 11:40 am #

    Keith: Because ‘he’ is just trolling you.

    Or alternatively, he is totally powerless to explain and understands how gsgs’s findings reject forgery in favor of algorithm?

    Then again, Hermitian has never allowed facts to disturb his ‘logic’.

  373. avatar
    nbc June 12, 2013 at 11:42 am #

    Hermitian:

    What’s your point? You have zero evidence that JBIG2 compression was applied.

    On the contrary. We see many identical characters in the highly compressed document, which are no longer identical on the higher resolution AP document, which was not similarly compressed.
    JBIG2 is commonly used for high compression, which is our second indicator.
    Preview does remove however, all such evidence. But logic and reason can help us reconstruct the workflow involved.

  374. avatar
    nbc June 12, 2013 at 11:44 am #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: BTW, did you know the JPEG/DCT compression algorithm allows you to rotate an image 90 degrees losslessly? That doesn’t work with JBIG2 and flate.

    Interesting observation. score+=1

  375. avatar
    gorefan June 12, 2013 at 11:45 am #

    nbc: So far Hermitian has failed to address the location of the layers, instead he is now moving to other features.

    In an interview today, Zullo says we have 11 things in the pdf that prove that it is a forgery. He doesn’t list them but I bet that it would be easy to whittle them down to 1 or 2.

    I bet that Zullo would still say “well you can’t explain the 1 or 2 anomalies so it must be a forgery.”

  376. avatar
    nbc June 12, 2013 at 11:53 am #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: No, it wouldn’t. This very likely was not done by the optimization program, but rather in Preview.

    Yes, this so called ‘insurmountable’ problem points to a lack of investigative skills on Hermitian more than to an actual impossibility. Once realizing the workflow, you can see how these features all disappear quickly.

    Of course, none of the features we observe point to any forgery. The separation of text into foreground and background failed to work where text intercepted other text or graphics. Which trivially explains why some letters appear in the foreground and others in the background. No forger would do something similar.

    What Hermitian forgets is that we have two additional documents to work from; the AP scan and the photograph by Savannah Guthrie.

    I find it fascinating how those who claimed to be ‘experts’ failed to understand these simple matters. GSGS has done us an incredible service by pointing out how feature after feature is best explained by algorithm. We have not even gotten to the ‘bleeding’ of the background colors behind the text… Again, no explanation exists by appealing to forgery but a simple understanding of the algorithms involved explains it quite well.

    Which is of course, why none of this will ever make it into a court of law, and why Zullo is now targeting congress, and why their secret session involved many of the outrageous myths such as adoption, etc…

    Thanks to Chief Kessler, we now know how Zullo has gone full birther… Poor Zullo, so good at impeaching his own credibility. Like Huff before him, he has been talking and talking and talking…

  377. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 12, 2013 at 12:08 pm #

    nbc: I find it fascinating how those who claimed to be ‘experts’ failed to understand these simple matters. GSGS has done us an incredible service by pointing out how feature after feature is best explained by algorithm. We have not even gotten to the ‘bleeding’ of the background colors behind the text… Again, no explanation exists by appealing to forgery but a simple understanding of the algorithms involved explains it quite well.

    I’d add to the discussion from gsgs on this by pointing out that it is likely that there was some additional compression of the background image after the assignment of color under the lifted text. That would explain why he couldn’t exactly duplicate the colors, even though he was very close.

  378. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 12, 2013 at 12:13 pm #

    gorefan: Isn’t the default usually portrait mode?

    Yes, but sometimes people change the defaults, or don’t change back to the default, or the firmware has a problem, or…

  379. avatar
    nbc June 12, 2013 at 12:16 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: I’d add to the discussion from gsgs on this by pointing out that it is likely that there was some additional compression of the background image after the assignment of color under the lifted text. That would explain why he couldn’t exactly duplicate the colors, even though he was very close.

    He was indeed incredibly close. I applaud his work and efforts as this required a non-trivial amount of good research. If only all ‘experts’ could have shown a similar diligence.

    gsgs was ridiculed, ignored all while he was writing programs and using his somewhat limited toolset to analyze the data and his hard work resulted in some incredibly valuable insights, all of which point to algorithms.

    While I, and others had explained to some extent many of the features already, his/her insights solidified many of the arguments

  380. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 12, 2013 at 12:47 pm #

    Hermitian: First I would expose the certified copy to Ultraviolet light to authenticate the security paper.

    Not all basketweave security paper has UV fibers. This is an additional security feature in some paper, but not guaranteed, unless you have proof that Hawai’i uses this enhanced feature.

    I would then verify the other security features of the security paper.

    You, of course, would need to know what security features are actually required to be present in the paper Hawai’i uses.

    Then I would inspect the Hawaii State embossed seal impression against the published official Hawaii State seal image.I would measure the dimensions of the seal impression and verify that they are the same as the authentic image.I would also check that the text is in the correct font and correct position around the seal periphery.This would be a particularly effective check because the seal periphery has both English and Hawaii text.Additionally, the Hawaiian text is in a distinctive native font.Hawaii has had a number of different seals of different sizes over its history.The current 1959 state seal is the largest in diameter.

    Hawai’i Department of Health doesn’t use the Hawai’i State Seal. It uses a caduceus in the center, with “DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH” wrapping around the top and “STATE OF HAWAII” wrapping around the bottom, with stars in between, and an inner and outer ring around the text. The font is not specified, nor is the exact image of the caduceus. There is, like with most embossing seals, considerable leeway in the exact details of the seal.

    I would then verify that the registrar’s signature and date stamp are authentic and that the impressions are in permanent Black ink.I would apply modern infrared equipment to verify that the ink is authentic and of uniform composition.

    And how, pray tell, are you going to be able to authenticate the signature and date stamp?

    I would then digitally scan the certified copy to a PDF file and compare the resulting image at the pixel level with the PDF image released by the White House.

    You do realize that even if you scanned the same document on the same scanner twice without moving the document, the two images will not be identical at the pixel level, right? And that in order to come close to duplicating a scan at the pixel level, you need to use the same scanner and software?

    I would closely examine each typed character to verify the typewriter font and the spacing of adjacent characters.I would also measure the characters to verify the points for the font.Finally I would compare the word spacing and tab stops and margins to authentic Hawaii hospital-generated birth certificates from 1961.

    We already know that margins and tab stops from authentic birth certificates are inconsistent, even for twins. Don’t forget that bound documents show curves near the binding.

    I would also compare the color values of the text and image elements.

    Don’t forget that scanning, printing, and compression change color values.

    I would then obtain representative samples for all the signatures appearing on the certified copy and have a handwriting expert verify each signature.

    Good luck getting those samples. Also, remember that some people, like me, have signatures that are quite variable.

    How’s that for a start?

    Sounds like you’re setting yourself up for failure.

  381. avatar
    nbc June 12, 2013 at 12:54 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: Sounds like you’re setting yourself up for failure.

    Indeed, just see how tough a time our friend has to explain the alignment of the layers… Funny how due diligence disappears when the conclusions shift away from forgery…

    Some of the steps outlined by Hermitian are quite valid, and some research should have been done already by looking at other released Hawaiian long form birth certificates.

    The MCSO CCP has been claiming that they wanted to prove the document not to be a forgery and yet they appear to have missed some of the strongest evidence pointing away from fraud.

    Sounds like confirmation bias to me… Too bad that Zullo has been busy self impeaching the work by the CCP. Strange how various ‘birthers’ seem to suddenly self-destruct when getting closer to having the issues taken on. Whether it is failures to properly service, timely file, properly argue, correctly certify experts and evidence, follow the rules of court, or a failure to pursue evidence, understanding more likely scenarios and so on.

    I find that a fascinating ability to self destruct.

  382. avatar
    Majority Will June 12, 2013 at 12:54 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: Sounds like you’re setting yourself up for failure.

    Failure: syn. see delusional birther bigot.

  383. avatar
    nbc June 12, 2013 at 1:02 pm #

    So let’s try to reconstruct some of the possible work flows the document may have taken. Hermitian is quick to exclude JBIG2, even though he knows that preview removes any hints of such encoding. Preview in fact removes a lot of traces of what software may have been used in the work flow. However, by applying common sense and understanding how document compression works, it becomes possible to outline a likely scenario.

    For instance the dual resolution of background and foreground (text), is typical when compression is applied. Text needs a higher resolution that graphics. The separation of text into foreground and background is not perfect and we see, as expected, text showing up in the background when such text intercepts other text or text box boundaries. We see how the highly compressed document shows many repeated, identical characters, which are not found as such in other variants of the document (AP and Guthrie documents), and thus again, better explained by compression algorithms.

    And so we continue down the list of artifacts. The bleeding of colors, again trivially are almost trivially explained by JPEG and data-filling, and not very well explained by forgery.

    Remember that the MCSO CCP has to show that a forgery is more likely than an algorithm, and so far, they have failed to provide much evidence to support this. No explanations as to the separation of text into foreground and background, no explanations for the alignment of the layers, no explanations for bleeding of colors, and so we continue down the line.

    It’s not just that the report will not likely stand up in court, but that it is so easily impeached, especially with the help of Zullo’s own commentary.

  384. avatar
    gorefan June 12, 2013 at 1:24 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: You, of course, would need to know what security features are actually required to be present in the paper Hawai’i uses.

    Some states and counties actually tell you which security features they use.

    Texas:

    http://wiki.texasvsu-ed.org/Banknote_Security_Paper_Meeting_Security_Paper_Features

    South Dakota:

    http://www.state.sd.us/boa/opm/documents/N23916_SecurityPaper_000.pdf

    Santa Clara County, California (page 9 are security paper requirements):

    https://www.bidsync.com/bidsync-app-web/vendor/links/bid_detail/BidDocumentsDownload.xhtml

    Oakland County, Michigan

    Oakland County, MI PDF.

  385. avatar
    Hermitian June 12, 2013 at 2:49 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: Wrong. Since the optimization software is probably in the scanner software (see Xerox patent previously mentioned), it is much more likely that the optimized file was created directly from the raw image file prior to being saved to the computer. The optimized file is thus likely to be the first PDF file to be generated.

    Vickland you are living in the past !!!

    The Xerox DocuMate 4799 Color Document Scanner is the current top-of-the-line Xerox scanner. This scanner is supplied with 3rd-party software.

    Kofax VRS™ Basic or VRS™ Pro with AIPE-EBC depending on SKU
    Nuance OmniPage Pro
    Visioneer OneTouch with Kofax VRS technology

    This top of the line scanner has a price of $11,995 or $12,995 depending on whether Kofax VRS™ Basic or VRS™ Pro is purchased.

    VRS™ Pro has many additional capabilities VRS™ Basic beyond VRS™ Basic including automatic page orientation for multipage documents. It also reads electronic bar codes. The Virtual Repeat Scan (VRS) is popular because the image enhancement reduces paper waste. Visioneer OneTouch is also popular because it enables pre-configuration of scanning templates to one button.

    Neither the Basic or Pro packages do file compression or PDF documents.

    Visioneer One Touch comes with a free plugin — either “Power Tools” or “Power Tools Plus”.

    Only the “Power Tools” plugin creates PDF files. PDF files automatically open in Adobe Reader. The “Expert” options under the Advanced Button adds “Launch Application”, ”Copy file name(s) to clipboard”, “Automatically print PDF files”, and “Automatically email file”. Power Tools does not do file compression.

    “Power Tools Plus does do file compression but only on TIFF files. However it is limited to two data streams and only two layers for images and text.

    Nuance OmniPage Pro is an alternative standalone scanner software package for PDF documents. However Nuance has been in partnership with Microsoft to co-develop their scanning software and PDF document technologies. The Nuance product literature claims to have state-of-the-art OCR capability. They also claim to have MRC compression capability but do not indicate that it can be applied independent of OCR. Nor do they provide any information about how the MRC works such as number and type of layers produced.

    The competing ABBYY product is ABBY PDF Transformer 3.0. This ABBYY product also claims to have state-of-the-art OCR capability and file compression. However, file compression is only available with OCR in this program.

    So much for the “Mysterious Xerox MRC capability. Xerox doesn’t even use it on their own top-of-the-line scanner.

    Because all digital scanning is a continuous process the initial file will always be a bitmap image in the form of a complete single layer image. The bitmap file can then be embedded within a PDF wrapper and then optimized to reduce file size. Alternatively, the bitmap layer can be optimized first before it is imported to PDF.

    The suggestion that the scanner does MRC compression of the raw image in real time and “on-the-fly” is ludicrous.

    Each of the nine layers contained within the WH LFCOLB PDF image file existed first as a larger page image that for some unknown reason was rotated by 90 degrees counter-clockwise (relative to its final orientation in the LFCOLB PDF image). Most likely this unnecessary rotation was deliberately applied to each of the nine images (by the forger) to obscure the fact that the images were digitally created by means of a computer and a graphics program.

    All of the nine larger images had a resolution of 72 PPI indicating that they were created on a MAC monitor as bitmap images. Each of the nine images was then imported and embedded into the PDF in the order that they were later found in the layers panel in Adobe Illustrator.

    When imported, these original files were scaled to smaller size and each was rotated 90 degrees clockwise. The background image was reduced in size by a factor of 48%. Each of the other eight images was reduced by a scale factor of 24%.

    The total number of pixels in each of the nine images (after being imported into the PDF) were the same as in their respective larger images. The final resolution of the final images was greater because the page size of each of the nine images was reduced.

    The final pixel size for the background layer is 1/150 in. X 1/150 in. The final pixel size of the other eight layers is 1/300 in. X 1/300 in. After the nine images were imported they were subsequently embedded as bitmap images. The embedded images are thereafter no longer linked to the original larger page size bitmap files. At that point, the nine larger page size images resided on the forger’s MAC computer as nine separate bitmap image files, all at native screen resolution of 1/72 in. X 1/72 in. pixel size (screen resolution of 72 PPI). Additionally, the file names of the nine linked files were deleted from the PDF file when the nine images were embedded within the PDF image.

  386. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 12, 2013 at 2:56 pm #

    I believe this is what is called a “fallacy of generalization.”

    Hermitian: So much for the “Mysterious Xerox MRC capability. Xerox doesn’t even use it on their own top-of-the-line scanner.

  387. avatar
    Hermitian June 12, 2013 at 2:57 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: No, it wouldn’t. This very likely was not done by the optimization program, but rather in Preview.

    Preview doesn’t create layers or clipping masks.

  388. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 12, 2013 at 3:31 pm #

    Hermitian: Preview doesn’t create layers

    Never claimed that it did or didn’t.

    or clipping masks.

    Wrong! Here’s how you do it:

    1. Select the portion of the picture you want to display

    2. Tools>Crop

    Voila! The page size remains the same, the area outside the selection box displays white and does not print, and the area inside the selection box displays and prints normally. The original image remains in the file, it’s just that the area outside the selection does not display or print. That is what we call a clipping mask.

  389. avatar
    gorefan June 12, 2013 at 3:58 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: Wrong! Here’s how you do it:

    So could the clipping mask been an attempt by someone to create border?

  390. avatar
    gorefan June 12, 2013 at 4:05 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: Never claimed that it did or didn’t.

    Wrong!Here’s how you do it:

    1. Select the portion of the picture you want to display

    2. Tools>Crop

    Voila!The page size remains the same, the area outside the selection box displays white and does not print, and the area inside the selection box displays and prints normally.The original image remains in the file, it’s just that the area outside the selection does not display or print.That is what we call a clipping mask.

    Why does the White House PDF have a white border? Was that added automatically?

  391. avatar
    Hermitian June 12, 2013 at 4:52 pm #

    VICKLAND

    Let’s review the likely flow:
    1. The original document is scanned by a Xerox machine in Landscape mode.
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    So your Xerox scanner scans 8.5 in. X 11 in. Pages in landscape orientation. You’ve got to be kidding.
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    2. The scanner optimizes the raw image to create the PDF.
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    And you are claiming that there was no single raw bitmap image but rather nine bitmap images that were created by the scanner in nine different data streams (on the fly) and then optimized and assembled into the final PDF? And this scanner was supplied with your “Magic MRC software utility.

    Funny that no Obot has been able to identify either the scanner or the software that created the WH LFCOLB PDF file.
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    3. In the process of optimizing the image, the software uses the previously mentioned patent to split the image into one background 8-bit color layer at 150 dpi* and eight 1-bit monochrome layers at 300 dpi (the layers with random white spots filling out two layers to complete the set of eight).
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    Prove it !!!
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    4. The rectangular segments for the monochrome layers have start points at the edge of 8×8 blocks, and end points at the far edges of the included monochrome image.
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    Wrong !!!

    When in their final embedded positions, the top and right edges of each rectangle are congruent with a grid of 8 X 8 blocks of 300 PPI X 300 PPI pixels but only if the rulers origin is moved from the upper left corner of the 81/2 in. X 11 in. page of the Artboard to the bottom left corner of the rectangular boundary of the background layer.

    The bottom and left sides of each rectangle are congruent with one side (of at least one) 1/300 in. X 1/300 in. pixel (of at least one) text or handwritten character contained within that rectangular object.

    All four edges of all nine rectangular object boundaries are congruent with the higher resolution grid of 300 PPI X 300 PPI.

    Each and every pixel of the eight high-resolutions images are congruent with a grid of 300 PPI X 300 PPI resolution.

    Each and every pixel of the low-resolution background image is congruent with a grid of 150 PPI X 150 PPI.

    All the pixels of the background image are offset by one high resolution pixel in the horizontal direction. The low-resolution pixels are not offset relative to the high-resolution pixels in the vertical direction.
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    5. The coordinate origin is in the top left corner. The background image is compressed as a JPEG and the monochrome layers are compressed using JBIG2. The optimized PDF file is saved to the computer.
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    The DCTDecode filter was applied to the one 8-Bit layer and FlateDecode filter was applied to all the other layers. These filters were read directly from the text within the LFCOLB PDF file when loaded into WordPad.
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    The optimized file is then opened in Mac Preview. The overall image is in Landscape, so the operator rotates the image 90 degrees. All layers rotate clockwise, keeping the same relative position. The operator then realizes the image extends past the printer margins, so crops the overall image to create aw ide enough margin. The operator then renames and saves the slightly modified file, using the suggested compression settings of JPEG/DCT for color layers and flate for monochrome layers. Since there is no loss when rotating a JPEG, the background image is compressed rotated. However, since flate is not lossless when rotating images, the monochrome layers are compressed at their original orientation (with an instruction to rotate when reconstructing the file).
    The file can now be printed (btw, Macs print at 72 dpi) and uploaded to the net.
    *It is also possible that the lower resolution for the background image wasn’t generated until compression in Preview.
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    I won’t bother to try to untangle your mess here. Let’s just deal with the question of whether or not Preview can edit individual layers in multilayer PDF documents. Fortunately someone else already asked that question at this forum

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=841487

    PDF Layers in Apple Preview?

    You are not going to like the answers that he got.

    Use Adobe Reader !!!

    You aren’t suggesting that Preview’s file compression is based on MRC are you?
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

  392. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 12, 2013 at 5:12 pm #

    gorefan: Why does the White House PDF have a white border?Was that added automatically?

    Well, part of it was done using a clipping mask, most likely in Preview, but that doesn’t account for all of the white border. Removing the clipping mask and comparing to the Guthrie photographs, it is clear that the remaining white border comes from clipping the image in some fashion, rather than shrinking it, as the basketweave pattern in the Guthrie photograph has extra repeats before cutting off at the edge of the page. It may be that the scanner has a margin – I have a scanner like that. Another possibility is that it was done after scanning but before the final Preview. If that is the case, I’m not sure if it was automatic or manual.

  393. avatar
    Hermitian June 12, 2013 at 5:46 pm #

    Preview uses one of the Apple Quartz filters to do file compression.

    Maybe Apple stole the MRC from Xerox like Gates lifted the GUI from Xerox for his Windows.

  394. avatar
    Northland10 June 12, 2013 at 5:51 pm #

    gorefan: So could the clipping mask been an attempt by someone to create border?

    There are many times when I scan a document, it will include more them the scanned image. Essentially a scan of the cover. I crop them to include only the document.

    I don’t know about Preview features, but if the user locked in the image size for a letter size PDF, the border would be there naturally. When doing web publication, taking extra steps for layout and clean scans are expected.

  395. avatar
    nbc June 12, 2013 at 7:27 pm #

    Hermitian: Maybe Apple stole the MRC from Xerox like Gates lifted the GUI from Xerox for his Windows.

    One of your better ‘arguments’ but still wrong.

  396. avatar
    nbc June 12, 2013 at 7:29 pm #

    Hermitian: And you are claiming that there was no single raw bitmap image but rather nine bitmap images that were created by the scanner in nine different data streams (on the fly) and then optimized and assembled into the final PDF? And this scanner was supplied with your “Magic MRC software utility.

    Nope, he is saying that the scanner created the raw bitmap stream and the software, applied compression, and recovered the document outline by separating text and background. Nothing magical here.

    You continue to remain clueless and unable to parse.

  397. avatar
    nbc June 12, 2013 at 7:32 pm #

    Hermitian: 3. In the process of optimizing the image, the software uses the previously mentioned patent to split the image into one background 8-bit color layer at 150 dpi* and eight 1-bit monochrome layers at 300 dpi (the layers with random white spots filling out two layers to complete the set of eight).
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    Prove it !!!

    Logic and reason can make a better argument for this than an appeal to forgery. That’s all that is necessary to rebut the ‘evidence’.

    The splitting in 150 and 300DPI layers is a standard compression process, as is the 8 bit for background and the 1 bit for the monochrome text.

    The only ‘mystery’ remains the 8 separate layers, rather than one big layer, of course, it is trivial to appreciate that the approach in fact reduces the file size as no bits are wasted. Since the MCSO CCP has failed to test all the relevant software, the explanation remains far more credible than that of a forgery.

  398. avatar
    Keith June 12, 2013 at 7:33 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: Well, part of it was done using a clipping mask, most likely in Preview, but that doesn’t account for all of the white border.Removing the clipping mask and comparing to the Guthrie photographs, it is clear that the remaining white border comes from clipping the image in some fashion, rather than shrinking it, as the basketweave pattern in the Guthrie photograph has extra repeats before cutting off at the edge of the page.It may be that the scanner has a margin – I have a scanner like that.Another possibility is that it was done after scanning but before the final Preview.If that is the case, I’m not sure if it was automatic or manual.

    Maybe one of the security features is a non-standard page size?

  399. avatar
    nbc June 12, 2013 at 7:35 pm #

    Hermitian: Preview doesn’t create layers or clipping masks.

    Which is why e mentions the optimization program first, you of poor reading and comprehension skills.

    So, unable to explain the alignment of the layers, Hermitian is moving on to the clipping mask. It’s hard to tell what caused the mask, but it hardly points to a forgery. All it points to is some form of manipulation.

    Still no credible evidence of a forgery that cannot be better explained by algorithms… No wonder the MCSO CCP has moved on.

  400. avatar
    nbc June 12, 2013 at 7:37 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: Well, part of it was done using a clipping mask, most likely in Preview, but that doesn’t account for all of the white border. Removing the clipping mask and comparing to the Guthrie photographs, it is clear that the remaining white border comes from clipping the image in some fashion, rather than shrinking it, as the basketweave pattern in the Guthrie photograph has extra repeats before cutting off at the edge of the page. It may be that the scanner has a margin – I have a scanner like that. Another possibility is that it was done after scanning but before the final Preview. If that is the case, I’m not sure if it was automatic or manual.

    Of course, such manipulation is hardly evidence of forgery. But it helps understand why these poor birthers are claiming that there are multiple birth certificates submitted.

    No ability for logic or reason… Such a bummer….

  401. avatar
    gorefan June 12, 2013 at 9:36 pm #

    nbc: The only ‘mystery’ remains the 8 separate layers

    I thought it was because the color values of those smaller layers (the two Aug. 8, 1961 hand stamp layers for example) were intermediate between the value that would throw it on the background layer and the larger text layer and the Al Gore Rhythm decided to put them on their own text layers.

  402. avatar
    Hermitian June 13, 2013 at 12:21 am #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: Hermitian: Preview doesn’t create layers
    Never claimed that it did or didn’t.
    or clipping masks.
    Wrong! Here’s how you do it:
    1. Select the portion of the picture you want to display
    2. Tools>Crop
    Voila! The page size remains the same, the area outside the selection box displays white and does not print, and the area inside the selection box displays and prints normally. The original image remains in the file, it’s just that the area outside the selection does not display or print. That is what we call a clipping mask.

    A simple cropping capability within Preview does not equate to a Clipping Mask Object in Adobe Illustrator.

  403. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 13, 2013 at 1:27 am #

    The clipping mask is in the PDF file, not Adobe Illustrator. What has Adobe Illustrator got to do with anything?

    Hermitian: A simple cropping capability within Preview does not equate to a Clipping Mask Object in Adobe Illustrator.

  404. avatar
    nbc June 13, 2013 at 1:35 am #

    Hermitian: A simple cropping capability within Preview does not equate to a Clipping Mask Object in Adobe Illustrator.

    Still avoiding that he never said that preview creates layers… Poor Hermitian, still unable to reason, read, argue and draw logical conclusions from observations.

    I have no idea why Hermitian is using illustrator as a reference, there is NO evidence it was ever used.

  405. avatar
    nbc June 13, 2013 at 1:41 am #

    Clipping mask

    One piece of evidence exhibited was that you could turn on and off a layer in Obama’s long form birth certificate and reveal hidden document data including more of the safety paper background and some additional writing to the right.

    I confirmed that you can scan an image with a normal household scanner, and when you use Mac OS X Preview’s “Print -> Save as PDF” menu option, it for some reason, rewrites the PDF’s data in such a way where it generates a clipping mask. The clipping mask is a white trim around the PDF. When the PDF is opened in Illustrator, you can reveal the clipping mask to show hidden information or layer data underneath, which in my case, was part of a birth certificate.

    here

    Such a simple explanation.

  406. avatar
    nbc June 13, 2013 at 1:49 am #

    So why did the work by Tim Selaty Sr. disappear, and was as far as I can tell not reported by the Cold Case Posse, even though he appears to have reported his findings.

  407. avatar
    The Magic M June 13, 2013 at 4:19 am #

    Another reason they don’t present their case to a DA. Suppressing evidence that points to innocence or “no crime committed” is a crime in itself.

  408. avatar
    gorefan June 13, 2013 at 9:15 am #

    The Magic M:
    Another reason they don’t present their case to a DA. Suppressing evidence that points to innocence or “no crime committed” is a crime in itself.

    Maybe they remember Michael Nifong

  409. avatar
    The Magic M June 13, 2013 at 10:32 am #

    Or Andrew Thomas. :)

  410. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 13, 2013 at 12:18 pm #

    Do Xerox scanners use MRC? Let’s ask Xerox:

    Xerox multifunction printers employ the latest image-compression
    technologies, including the Mixed Raster Content (MRC) method,
    which splits scanned-file data into separate text and graphic elements. JPEG compression technology is used to compress graphical
    elements, while JBIG2 is used to compress text elements.

    It separates scans into graphical elements with JPEG compression and text elements with JBIG2 compression? Oh snap!

  411. avatar
    nbc June 13, 2013 at 3:09 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: It separates scans into graphical elements with JPEG compression and text elements with JBIG2 compression? Oh snap!

    Poor Hermitian… The gods have not been kind to him the last few days. And neither have the facts.

    Great find…

  412. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 13, 2013 at 3:53 pm #

    What happens when Preview tries to save a PDF that had used JBIG2 compression?

    Answer:

    As you have discovered the Preview app can display PDFs that use JBIG2 compression but when the PDFs are exported or saved after changes have been made the JBIG2 compression is replaced with a different compression filter.

    In the example shown, it compressed with Flate instead of JBIG2.

  413. avatar
    nbc June 13, 2013 at 4:42 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: What happens when Preview tries to save a PDF that had used JBIG2 compression?

    Yes, I found the same as well…

    So now the workflow is getting even clearer. Poor Hermitian, he is continuing to impeach the work by the MCSO CCP, even beyond the excellent work done by Zullo himself.

  414. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 13, 2013 at 5:02 pm #

    Explanation for the white border that remains even after the clipping mask is removed! It’s the scanner.

    From Xerox:

    Edge Erase enables you to specify how much of the image to erase around the edges of your
    document. For example, you can remove the marks caused by punched holes or staples in your original.
    The options are:
    • All Edges is used to erase an equal amount from all
    the edges. Use the arrow buttons to adjust the
    amount to be erased from 1 mm to 50 mm (0.1” to
    2.0”). All marks or defects within the measurement set
    are deleted.
    • Individual Edges enables an individual amount to be
    erased from each of the edges, on both the first and
    second sides.
    Use the arrow buttons to adjust the amount for each edge, from 1 mm to 50 mm (0.1” to 2.0”).
    • Scan to Edge use this option to scan to the edge of the image.

    Edge Erase is used to erase spots,
    unwanted lines, marks and punched
    holes that appear on your original but are not required on the scanned image.

  415. avatar
    nbc June 13, 2013 at 5:15 pm #

    Check out XIFF

    Support for an arbitrary number of layers

    and

    In contrast to resolution-independent document representations, documents represented in a DigiPaper file format are resolution-dependent. The DigiPaper file format is a token-based structured document representation that is both highly expressive and fast to render. The DigiPaper structure document format is described in detail in U.S. patent application Ser. Nos. 08/652,864 and 08/752,497. In the DigiPaper format, pages of a document are represented using a “dictionary” of tokens or symbols that appear in the document. In addition to the dictionary of tokens, each page includes position information specifying where tokens on the page appear. Each token in the dictionary of tokens is a portion of a document image such as a bitmap of a character.

  416. avatar
    nbc June 13, 2013 at 5:21 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: Explanation for the white border that remains even after the clipping mask is removed! It’s the scanner.

    Nice, edge-erase

  417. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 13, 2013 at 5:27 pm #

    I should note that the same reference as the Edge Erase also confirms that you can set the scanner to Original Orientation:Landscape. The other possibility hinted at in the guide is that if the document is loaded in Landscape and Original Orientation is set to Portrait, it will rotate the image automatically.

    In fact, it has auto size detection and some models can handle 11×17 sheets. So it would be very easy to load the original in a landscape orientation and have the software rotate the image automatically.

  418. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 13, 2013 at 5:32 pm #

    Do Xerox machines use multi-layer MRC compression?

    Yes:

    New scan to export compression formats:
    • MRC (multi-layer)
    • JBIG2

  419. avatar
    nbc June 13, 2013 at 5:36 pm #

    Edge erase removes unwanted spots. Time to look more carefully at the white spots relative to the edges of the seal.

    Nope they do no line up

  420. avatar
    nbc June 13, 2013 at 5:44 pm #

    Note: Border Erase erases all edge equally with a default of 0.11 inches. Edge Erase allows individual edge to be erased. Output Format tab. File Format …

    The document hows 16 pixels at 144 dpi for .11 inches.. on the top and right. Bottom and right shows larger region

    You are a genius

  421. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 13, 2013 at 5:46 pm #

    4th degree black-belt in Google-foo

  422. avatar
    nbc June 13, 2013 at 5:55 pm #

    Hmm, let me think this over again… The jpeg is at half the resolution of the text. 16 jpeg blocks make for… I may have spoken too soon…

  423. avatar
    nbc June 13, 2013 at 6:09 pm #

    Always in a rush…

    33/300 or .111 for top
    32/300 or .106 for right
    40/300 or .133 for bottom
    20/300 or .066 for left

  424. avatar
    nbc June 13, 2013 at 6:13 pm #

    Image size 8.5×11 would be 2550×3300

    2552×3304 = 8.50667 by 11.013

    Wow, I need to go back to the original PDF source…

  425. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 13, 2013 at 6:28 pm #

    nbc: Edge erase removes unwanted spots. Time to look more carefully at the white spots relative to the edges of the seal.

    Yeah, I was looking at that too. I don’t think that works on interior spots. But! It got me thinking.

    Pure speculation here.

    As Hermie pointed out (unknowingly), Preview displays hidden layers, even though they shouldn’t be displayed. What if the white spots (at least at the top) were actually small marks that the optimization program determined were unwanted spots. It sampled the spots in a similar manner to the way it did text, included projecting the surrounding color under the lifted spots (per gsgs). It then selected a a nearly white true grey (that is, the RGB color is F5F5F5) and made the layer hidden. The size of the white spots are small enough that the backfill didn’t create a halo effect. When displayed properly, the layer would thus be hidden, and all you would see would be the corrected background image. But Preview borks that, and saving from Preview borks the new file.

    Again, I repeat: the above paragraph is pure speculation.

    As far as the lower white spots, it looks to me as if they do line up with the seal. One part of the white spots line up with the two rims/text running around the bottom of the seal, and another group seems to be located at the biggest part of the caduceus. But it’s hard to tell for sure.

  426. avatar
    nbc June 13, 2013 at 6:29 pm #

    From the PDF I get

    pixels 20 20 top bottom

    pixels 25 right 25 left

    total pixels 850 x 1100 so each pixel is 1/100 of an inch

    .2 x .2 inches top and bottom
    .25 x .25 inches left and right

    Need to understand the clipping mask better.

  427. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 13, 2013 at 6:33 pm #

    nbc:
    Image size 8.5×11 would be 2550×3300

    2552×3304 = 8.50667 by 11.013

    Wow, I need to go back to the original PDF source…

    Guess what size gsgs calculated for the overall size?

    total size = (1276×1652)*2 = 2552×3304

    first number is 150 dpi (background image), second is 300 dpi (text)

  428. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 13, 2013 at 6:35 pm #

    Clipping mask is from Preview, not the scanner. You need to look at the file with the clipping mask disabled to get the Edge Erase clipping.

  429. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 13, 2013 at 7:06 pm #

    nbc:
    From the PDF I get

    pixels 20 20 topbottom

    pixels 25 right 25 left

    total pixels 850 x 1100 so each pixel is 1/100 of an inch

    .2 x .2 inches top and bottom
    .25 x .25 inches left and right

    Need to understand the clipping mask better.

    Eyeballing the Zebest report, when the clipping mask (already proven by the CCP to be something added by Save as PDF in Preview) is turned off, the original background image extends more than halfway from the clipping boundary to the edge of the file on the left and right, and almost exactly halfway on the top and bottom. That would put us at approximately .1 inches on all borders. Close enough to .11 to call it.

  430. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 13, 2013 at 7:33 pm #

    Just to rub salt in the wound:

    Xerox Scanning Compression Technology — We feature advanced scan-file compression technology that greatly reduces a scanned image without affecting image quality. JBIG2 technology in combination with the Mixed Raster Content (MRC) method creates a file up to 10X smaller than competitors.

  431. avatar
    nbc June 13, 2013 at 9:50 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund:
    Clipping mask is from Preview, not the scanner.You need to look at the file with the clipping mask disabled to get the Edge Erase clipping.

    Excellent point.

  432. avatar
    nbc June 14, 2013 at 3:25 am #

    Okay, another mystery resolved

    Note that the main jpeg laye has a size of (1276 x 1652)*2 = 2552 x 3304. The actual document (8.5 by 11) has 2550 x 3300 pixels, so why the extra pixels? Jpeg compression takes 8 by 8 pixel blocks and therefor the image was padded to match.

    Again, evidence suggesting algorithmic artifacts. Why would a forger pad the background?

  433. avatar
    Hermitian June 14, 2013 at 10:14 pm #

    nbc: Of course, such manipulation is hardly evidence of forgery. But it helps understand why these poor birthers are claiming that there are multiple birth certificates submitted.
    No ability for logic or reason… Such a bummer….

    The clipping mask removed all image pixels outside of its clipping path. This constitutes an alteration because image information was deliberately removed. A deliberately altered birth certificate has no probative value.

  434. avatar
    Hermitian June 14, 2013 at 11:21 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The clipping mask is in the PDF file, not Adobe Illustrator. What has Adobe Illustrator got to do with anything?

    Hermitian: A simple cropping capability within Preview does not equate to a Clipping Mask Object in Adobe Illustrator.

    The object in question is recognized by Adobe as a clip group. This object occupies the 2nd and 3rd layers down from the top in the layers pane when the WH LFCOLB PDF file is opened with Adobe Illustrator CS6. The first layer after the clip group layer is the clipping path layer. The clipping path constitutes a rectangle of dimensions 8 in. X 10.6 in. The page margins (outside the clipping path) are 0.25 in. on the left and right and ) 0.2 in. on the bottom and top.

    The clip group effectively crops the entire image outside the clipping path. The background layer and the top white spot layer are cropped.

    The Obot claim is that this clip group was created with Preview in spite of the fact that Preview does not display individual layers in a multiple layer PDF.

  435. avatar
    Hermitian June 14, 2013 at 11:31 pm #

    nbc: Hermitian: A simple cropping capability within Preview does not equate to a Clipping Mask Object in Adobe Illustrator.
    Still avoiding that he never said that preview creates layers… Poor Hermitian, still unable to reason, read, argue and draw logical conclusions from observations.
    I have no idea why Hermitian is using illustrator as a reference, there is NO evidence it was ever used.

    I believe that I stated that Preview claims to do file compression via a Apple Quartz filter. I have found no information that this compression involves multiple PDF layers.

  436. avatar
    dunstvangeet June 15, 2013 at 3:10 am #

    Hermitian, let me ask you one thing…

    You seem to think that this was the work of a forger. With all your experience with photoshop, and creating images in photoshop, why would you put half of one word on one layer, and put half of it on the background layer? Why wouldn’t you just put the entire word in the same layer?

    And if you were to break them into 2 layers, and then combine one of those layers with the background, then why wouldn’t you just combine the entire thing with the background?

    Every layer in the PDF has things that no forger would do when creating a document, but are easily explained if it was an algorithm doing it for compression purposes.

  437. avatar
    Keith June 15, 2013 at 3:11 am #

    Hermitian: The clipping mask removed all image pixels outside of its clipping path. This constitutes an alteration because image information was deliberately removed. A deliberately altered birth certificate has no probative value.

    Duh.

    The resulting image is not a Birth Certificate. It is an image of a Birth Certificate.

    Nobody except birthers has ever said anything different.

    If ever an actual Birth Certificate is required by a Court, it will be made available.

    Lacking that Court Order, the image is all that is required, especially since the information on the image has been verified as being identical to the information on the actual Birth Certificate.

  438. avatar
    Hermitian June 15, 2013 at 7:35 am #

    dunstvangeet: Hermitian, let me ask you one thing…
    You seem to think that this was the work of a forger. With all your experience with photoshop, and creating images in photoshop, why would you put half of one word on one layer, and put half of it on the background layer? Why wouldn’t you just put the entire word in the same layer?
    And if you were to break them into 2 layers, and then combine one of those layers with the background, then why wouldn’t you just combine the entire thing with the background?
    Every layer in the PDF has things that no forger would do when creating a document, but are easily explained if it was an algorithm doing it for compression purposes.

    What about the two White spot layers? And why would any optimization software automatically crop the composite image AFTER it is optimized? And, by the way, the clipping path rectangle does not meet the gsgs 8 MOD 0 criteria.

  439. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 15, 2013 at 8:04 am #

    First, how about you explain why a forger would manually …

    Hermitian: And why would any optimization software automatically …

  440. avatar
    Hermitian June 15, 2013 at 8:27 am #

    nbc: Hermitian: A simple cropping capability within Preview does not equate to a Clipping Mask Object in Adobe Illustrator.
    Still avoiding that he never said that preview creates layers… Poor Hermitian, still unable to reason, read, argue and draw logical conclusions from observations.
    I have no idea why Hermitian is using illustrator as a reference, there is NO evidence it was ever used.

    That’s funny because I have been able to completely dissect the nine-layer image and completely reconstruct it — all with Illustrator CS6. And that includes each original larger image as well as the nominal 8.5 in. X 11 in. composite image.

    For example, the binary typed capital letters were originally created on the MAC computer at screen resolution (72 PPI) and were originally 3/8 = 0.375 inches high.

    The WF LFCOLB was most likely created on a MAC computer using MAC Illustrator and then run through Preview to strip out the Adobe METADATA. That works for me.

  441. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 15, 2013 at 9:27 am #

    Hermitian: The object in question is recognized by Adobe as a clip group.This object occupies the 2nd and 3rd layers down from the top in the layers pane when the WH LFCOLB PDF file is opened with Adobe Illustrator CS6.The first layer after the clip group layer is the clipping path layer.The clipping path constitutes a rectangle of dimensions 8 in. X 10.6 in.The page margins (outside the clipping path) are 0.25 in. on the left and right and ) 0.2 in. on the bottom and top.

    The clip group effectively crops the entire image outside the clipping path.The background layer and the top white spot layer are cropped.

    The Obot claim is that this clip group was created with Preview in spite of the fact that Preview does not display individual layers in a multiple layer PDF.

    Does Preview display individual layers in a multiple-layer PDF?

    First, directly from Hermie:

    So I’m starting to get a lot of PDFs that have multiple layers, that is, different levels of text and pictures which can be turned on and off. The main benefit is that you can turn off, say, the pictures layer to make a document more printer friendly.

    However, there are a few PDFs I’ve gotten that just look like a big mess with all the layers turned on. There’s a little annotation in the PDFs I’ve seen like this that say that there are layers in the document, so I know it’s not a bad PDF. Adobe Reader can handle these layers, but I can’t seem to find a way to get Apple Preview (Leopard version) to acknowledge it or to find a way to turn them on and off. Is there any way to get it to do so? Are there any plans in the future to support it? Or am I stuck using Adobe for those?

    The problem is not that they aren’t displaying, it’s that they are all displaying, and the guy wants to be able to control which ones display. So why do some of these files with layers look like a mess in Preview but not other programs?

    Hidden layers:

    I have several documents with what I call “reference layers” in them that I turn off when making a PDF. When I view the PDF on a Windows based machine, it is fine in both FireFox and IE. When viewing the PDF on a Mac product (iPad, iPhone, Mac desktop), the layers I have turned off are showing up in the PDF. Can anyone tell me why this is happening?

    Some of the answers and advice he got:

    You probably need to change print layers to visible layers on the mac, and that setting is already chanegd on Win.

    Print Layers affects the save as to pdf command. Set that to visible layers, and you will get what you need.

    If Mike’s suggestion doesn’t fix your issue, try this. When you save as a PDF with Create Acrobat layers on, the hidden layers can appear on older versions of Acrobat that do not support layers, and possibly other apps as well. Try un-checking this option. I believe a PDF saved with hidden Acrobat layers can have the hidden layers turned back on in Acrobat, so if you don’t want anybody to see them, don’t include them. On the other hand, if your PDF is complex and uses transparency, including layers should help prevent stitching.

    You are welcome. I believe saving a PDF with Acrobat layers on simply saves all of the Illustrator layers in your PDF, they may or may not be visible when opened in Acrobat. To see the layers in Acrobat, go to View> Show/Hide> Navigation Panes> Layers, all of your layers (hidded or not) should appear on the list of layers. (Acrobat X). Some apps will ignore Acrobat’s attempt to hide them. If you don’t save your PDF with Acrobat layers, the hidden layers will be deleted.

    Does Preview display layers? Yes: all of them, even when it shouldn’t.

  442. avatar
    Hermitian June 15, 2013 at 10:06 am #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: Does Preview display individual layers in a multiple-layer PDF?
    First, directly from Hermie:
    So I’m starting to get a lot of PDFs that have multiple layers, that is, different levels of text and pictures which can be turned on and off. The main benefit is that you can turn off, say, the pictures layer to make a document more printer friendly.
    However, there are a few PDFs I’ve gotten that just look like a big mess with all the layers turned on. There’s a little annotation in the PDFs I’ve seen like this that say that there are layers in the document, so I know it’s not a bad PDF. Adobe Reader can handle these layers, but I can’t seem to find a way to get Apple Preview (Leopard version) to acknowledge it or to find a way to turn them on and off. Is there any way to get it to do so? Are there any plans in the future to support it? Or am I stuck using Adobe for those?
    The problem is not that they aren’t displaying, it’s that they are all displaying, and the guy wants to be able to control which ones display. So why do some of these files with layers look like a mess in Preview but not other programs?

    You obviously read only the question but none of the answers. The expert’s opinion was that Preview is not reliable for viewing multiple layer PDFs. Best advise — USE ADOBE READER INSTEAD.

  443. avatar
    gorefan June 15, 2013 at 11:07 am #

    Hermitian: What about the two White spot layers? And why would any optimization software automatically crop the composite image AFTER it is optimized? And, by the way, the clipping path rectangle does not meet the gsgs 8 MOD 0 criteria.

    The Cold Case Posse’s own expert said that Preview created a clipping mask automatically when he pressed the “Print – Save to PDF” button. This was after the file had been compressed so it would not necessarily meet the 8 MOD 0 criteria.

  444. avatar
    Hermitian June 15, 2013 at 11:17 am #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: You are welcome. I believe saving a PDF with Acrobat layers on simply saves all of the Illustrator layers in your PDF, they may or may not be visible when opened in Acrobat. To see the layers in Acrobat, go to View> Show/Hide> Navigation Panes> Layers, all of your layers (hidded or not) should appear on the list of layers. (Acrobat X). Some apps will ignore Acrobat’s attempt to hide them. If you don’t save your PDF with Acrobat layers, the hidden layers will be deleted.

    Turning “Show/Hide Layers on” in Acrobat XI Pro does not reveal the nine layers in the WH LFCOLB PDF file.

    Why would any Obot who is in possession of “your fictitious state-of-the-art mystery optimizer program” use any cruddy program like Preview to alter the optimized image?

    But then all Obots are clueless !!!

    You Figure…

  445. avatar
    dunstvangeet June 15, 2013 at 11:55 am #

    Hermitian,

    You’re the one that’s saying that these artifacts indicate forgery. So, I asked you exactly why would a forger make a word that is displayed over 2 layers? You’re the one making the claim, so you’re the one who has to defend that claim.

    Seems like a lot of extra work getting those layers to line up exactly, when the exact same thing would be more directly achieved by just continuing the word in the same layer.

    As far as the White Spot question, you first describe why a forger would actually do that? Seems like it has no purpose for a forger to do that.

  446. avatar
    gorefan June 15, 2013 at 2:30 pm #

    dunstvangeet: As far as the White Spot question, you first describe why a forger would actually do that? Seems like it has no purpose for a forger to do that.

    The white spots aren’t big enough or concentrated enough to hide any information. According to the forgery theory the guy just decided to put some dots in two spots on the pdf and also put them on separate layers. He could have accomplished the same thing by just using the eyedropper tool in Photoshop and individually change the color of pixels on the green background layer.

  447. avatar
    nbc June 15, 2013 at 4:41 pm #

    Hermitian: The WF LFCOLB was most likely created on a MAC computer using MAC Illustrator and then run through Preview to strip out the Adobe METADATA. That works for me.

    The evidence strongly points to a Xerox scanner which used MRC segmentation and JBIG2 and Preview to remove metadata, removing the JBIG2 encoding but retaining the duplicate letters.

    One you make these simple assumptions you can explain everything. Note that Hermitian still has not explained why a forger would align all the layers at 8 bit boundaries. Or how the bottom layer bleeds through under the text, or the presence of a halo in the jpeg, not the actual text layers.

    The white blotches are explained by understanding that the software does edge spot removal. The bottom rectangle is where the seal is located, as to the top… No explanation yet. Of course, there is no explanation why a forger would add these random blotches as they hide nothing relevant.

    Understanding the workflow also helps understand the separation into foreground layers and background and why some text is moved to the background layer.

    The border?…

    A birther already found the answer to this one

    I confirmed that you can scan an image with a normal household scanner, and when you use Mac OS X Preview’s “Print -> Save as PDF” menu option, it for some reason, rewrites the PDF’s data in such a way where it generates a clipping mask. The clipping mask is a white trim around the PDF. When the PDF is opened in Illustrator, you can reveal the clipping mask to show hidden information or layer data underneath, which in my case, was part of a birth certificate.

    See above.

    Thanks Hermitian for helping resolve how algorithms explain the data much better than forgery….

    I will be using your efforts to document a far more likely workflow than the one proposed by Zebest. Not that their ‘research’ is considered relevant anymore, as they have moved on to other myths about our President. But still fun to expose how confirmation bias can cause one to see ‘design’ everywhere.

  448. avatar
    nbc June 15, 2013 at 4:45 pm #

    dunstvangeet: You’re the one that’s saying that these artifacts indicate forgery. So, I asked you exactly why would a forger make a word that is displayed over 2 layers? You’re the one making the claim, so you’re the one who has to defend that claim.

    There lies Hermitian’s problem. In order for forgery to be a better explanation than algorithm, he has to show that a forgery explains the data much better. As I and others have shown, most if not all artifacts point to algorithms. The 8 bit alignment, the separation of text over the foreground layers and the background, the halo, the bleeding of the color, the alignment of the layers at 8 bit boundaries, the duplicate letters, not found on the uncompressed document provided to us by AP.

    Hermitian has been instrumental in exposing the failures of the forgery claims. I will slowly be making the case on my website, now that I believe most, if not all artifacts have been explained by a simple workflow of Capture from Xerox scanner followed by preview print as PDF.

  449. avatar
    nbc June 15, 2013 at 4:50 pm #

    Hermitian: What about the two White spot layers? And why would any optimization software automatically crop the composite image AFTER it is optimized? And, by the way, the clipping path rectangle does not meet the gsgs 8 MOD 0 criteria.

    First explain why all layers abide to the 8 MOD 0 criterion… Once you have to admit that algorithm explains it much better, we can help you understand the clipping path. And you can help us understand why a forger would add these white spot layers…

    Good luck my friend, so far your inability and unwillingness to address the alignment of layers has been quite effective in rejecting another ‘evidence’ pointing to a forger.

    If it had not been for your inability to address, I would not have found the interest to look at the other remaining unexplained artifacts. With your help as well as the observations by others, we know have explained 99% of the artifacts as algorithmic, better than an appeal to a designer.

    For that I thank you.

  450. avatar
    nbc June 15, 2013 at 5:17 pm #

    Hermitian: The clipping mask removed all image pixels outside of its clipping path. This constitutes an alteration because image information was deliberately removed. A deliberately altered birth certificate has no probative value.

    I am glad that you now admit that there is no evidence of forgery, just ‘alteration’ but under that argument jpeg and JBIG2 also mean the document lack probative value.

    Not that the document was ever released to show probative value, that came from the verifications by the DOH and the two original copies.

    For that admission, I thank you again

  451. avatar
    nbc June 15, 2013 at 5:19 pm #

    Hermitian: The Obot claim is that this clip group was created with Preview in spite of the fact that Preview does not display individual layers in a multiple layer PDF.

    It does not display them but it maintains them as such. The clipping mask is just another operation in the realm of PDF.

    Sorry Hermi, again you strike out.

  452. avatar
    Keith June 15, 2013 at 8:46 pm #

    nbc: First explain why all layers abide to the 8 MOD 0 criterion…

    The obvious answer is that the forger was good. Very, very good. So good that he made his forgery too good.

    He did it so good that it looks too much like an algorithm did it.

    He did it so well that he must have been a she.

    He did it so well that he must have been working from the actual paper based document.

    Either that or he was just some schmuck, with the top of the line office skills as one would expect to be working in the White House, working an office copier machine to the best of his ability on a job the President had direct personal interest in.

  453. avatar
    Majority Will June 15, 2013 at 9:00 pm #

    Hermitian: The WF LFCOLB was most likely created on a MAC computer using MAC Illustrator and then run through Preview to strip out the Adobe METADATA. That works for me

    It’s “Mac” as in Apple Macintosh.

    MAC is Media Access Control or MAC Cosmetics among other things.

    And it’s Adobe Illustrator, not MAC Illustrator.

    And you have no idea what you’re babbling on about.

  454. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 15, 2013 at 9:35 pm #

    Majority Will: And you have no idea what you’re babbling on about.

    Maybe he was using the free WiFi at McDonalds and got confused by the displays for Big Macs. Burgers, computers…pretty pictures. Just saying………………………

  455. avatar
    Majority Will June 15, 2013 at 9:46 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Maybe he was using the free WiFi at McDonalds and got confused by the displays for Big Macs. Burgers, computers…pretty pictures. Just saying………………………

    If they’re still alive and not in prison, maybe some of these pathetic birther bigots will have the privilege of visiting the Obama Presidential Library one day.

  456. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 15, 2013 at 10:04 pm #

    Majority Will: If they’re still alive and not in prison, maybe some of these pathetic birther bigots will have the privilege of visiting the Obama Presidential Library one day.

    I can just see them in the room with the certified birth certificate under glass yelling and screaming about it being a forgery. They will never give up.

  457. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund June 16, 2013 at 2:26 pm #

    Hermitian: You obviously read only the question but none of the answers.The expert’s opinion was that Preview is not reliable for viewing multiple layer PDFs.Best advise — USE ADOBE READER INSTEAD.

    In what way does this conflict with or contradict what I said? As I said, Preview displays all levels, EVEN WHEN IT’S NOT SUPPOSED TO. That means it is not reliable for viewing multiple layer PDFs.

    Preview is basically a pumped up PDF viewer. As with most 3rd-party viewer programs, it sometimes doesn’t display things properly. However, the fact that it sometimes doesn’t display properly does not mean that it doesn’t display at all.

    Stop falling for the Nirvana fallacy.

  458. avatar
    nbc June 16, 2013 at 3:29 pm #

    I just printed the background layer using preview and it adds a nice border. Boy oh boy, thanks Hermitian for helping us out disproving the few remaining artifacts as being created by a ‘forger’.

    You’re the best..

  459. avatar
    gorefan June 16, 2013 at 4:08 pm #

    nbc: I just printed the background layer using preview and it adds a nice border.

    How does the border compare to the Whitehouse pdf’s border? Does the border you created cover part of the image? Can you post it to your site?